What he's up, fellow thermal nuclear affors. I am Dan Valley, coming
at you finally without an NBA team. Look ahead. That series is done,
but this podcast releases. It releases on a Tuesday. Most teams will
not have played their first game until the end of Wednesday, So go check
out that series YouTube. Wherever you get your podcast, Spotify, Apple,
the whole nine. We have forty five to ninety minute podcasts on every single
NBA team, But this podcast is about the flurry of extensions that went down
on Monday. I am joined by first time guests David Brandon, freelance NBA
writer contributes to Daily Thunder. He's also a CBA extraordinary Follow him on Twitter
if you do not already at Bird Rights NBA spelled exactly as it sounds.
The link to it will also be in the YouTube and podcast description. David,
thank you so much for joining me on a very late Monday night.
I very much appreciate it. How are you doing doing great? Man,
doing great? Excited to be here the extensions. Before we get into I
want to start with the honest one. There was I feel like more at
the buzzer over the final two days than I was expecting and we had what
we end up with thirty three players signed extensions or what was it? What
was the rookie extension number? It was like something crazy. I don't have
it off the top of my head. It's a lot. I was surprised
how many actually there's there's I don't know. It feels like it's been an
extra busy time coming into the season this year. So I'd honestly wondered whether
the infusion of TV money coming down the pipeline was going to, you know,
not forced, but convinced players to reach restricted free agency. And now
I'm sort of wondering if it had the opposite effect, whereas we've seen teams
very hesitant to throw their money around a restricted free agency, and so I'm
wondering with a lot of these guys, you know, even the Devin Vessells,
Jade and McDaniels, but also just like the Aaronie Smith's, you know,
the Zeke Nagies, maybe guys who aren't as proven, like they just
decid, hey, I'm going to get my money now. Because teams aren't
throwing out offers, especially the players who aren't non stars, and even some
of the higher end ones in RFAs, and so I don't know if that's
a trend, that's just something that I was expecting not to happen that actually
did happen, that these guys just decided, Hey, I'm not I'm not
going to RFA. I do actually have some thoughts on that. I think
teams may be more interested in offering extensions right now because of the trade restrictions
that have come into play where they need they need guys that they can salary
match with, where the salary matching is more restrictive than it used to be.
So I think you may see some of these guys on extensions where teams
are willing to lock them up for a for a price longer term so they
have a guy that they can move down the line, especially some of these
teams like you mentioned Minnesota, where they don't have a lot of like movable
salary, They don't have a ton of things that they can that they can
get deals done with. Some McDaniel's being locked down is really useful for them
long term. So you might see some guys teams being more willing to take
on guys for a longer period of time on extensions than they would normally so
yeah, that was something that would bring to mind. It wasn't so much
like the higher profile guys like that, but a Danyavdia or even Zeke naj
like those guys who got the I think they both got four years. I
know Dannyavdia did, and you had Zeke Naugy at four and thirty two with
like and then including player options for some of these guys like Nausea getting a
player option. I think you look at it as it's such a small percentage
of the salary cap. And as you mentioned some of these teams, especially
the Nuggets, who are getting to the point where like they're going to technically
be in tax. Hell, if you just need dollar for dollar matches on
the trade market, like maybe having some of these guys under you know,
contract where they're making eight nine, you know, sub ten percent of the
salary cap, but still you know, more than three percent or whatever of
the salary carap, maybe that ends up being useful. Yeah, No,
And it's it is interesting, like you bring up looking at things as a
percentage of the cap. It's really interesting. So like if you started really
following stuff back in so for me, like I was really into the League
around. I really got hardcore into it around the time that the Thunder went
to the finals back in twenty twelve. Back then, the salary cap was
fifty eight million. Just I'm looking at the real GM the salary cap history
right now. So twenty twelve, twenty thirteen, it was fifty eight million,
twenty twenty three, twenty twenty four, it's one hundred and thirty six
million. So we're over twice what we were back then. So people are
still looking at these deals and saying, man, that's a lot of money.
The cap is more than doubled. You know, it's going to triple
by the time, you know, within the next five years, probably from
what it was in twenty twelve. Yeah, and I've tried to do a
better job. I still don't do a great, like a perfect job of
it. But we have to frame these and when people get sticker shocked,
it's fine to get sticker shocked. But let's use the Jaden McDaniel thing as
an example. I think a lot of people look at that five for one
thirty one. Guaranteed. I found the reporting. I didn't really want to
begin with him, but I found the reporting absolutely hysterical, where the initial
number that comes out as one thirty six, which is one million dollars more
than Devin Vessel was guaranteed. So I'd like to think there was gamesmanship there,
but they'll look at five for one thirty one and be like, for
that guy Jade McDaniels, and they don't really let him dribble all that much,
even though maybe he can. It's that deal will never be twenty percent
of the salary cap. It might hover around fifteen percent of the salary cap
on average, and so I think it is getting more important to frame things
that way. But the first one I wanted to ask you about had nothing
to do with rookie extensions. It was a Giannistentha Kupo extensions he signed for
three years at the max, which ended up being about it's up projected,
excuse me, to be one hundred and eighty six point six million dollars.
It starts in twenty five, twenty six, and then it'll have a player
option in twenty seven twenty eight. Were you surprised that he signed this at
all? The framing was he wants to get back into free agency a little
bit sooner, which works, But there's also I just want to add this
very quickly before I throw it to you. I find it absolutely hysterical that
he went on this aggressive yet salient postgame response to Eric name of the Athletic
saying last year wasn't a failure. I bounced the first round. Then he
spends half the summer, does a many podcasts toward kind of telegraphing that I'm
not gonna be happy unless we're committed to winning. And so they go out
and make the Dame trade. So I found that kind of funny. And
then this just feels like the first line of consistency with him where it's okay,
just like they did with Threw Holiday, Like you go out, you
make this movie, prove this to me. I'm then going to sign the
extension. But what did you make of this entire thing? I mean,
I'm kind of right there with you. I feel like having been on the
bad end of a Superstar labing before with the thunder thing. You know.
I was looking at the Bucks this summer and just seeing I'm going to get
crucified for this by Bucks Twitter, just the little trial balloon thing, and
being like, oh, that's scary. You're a Box fan, you know,
And then like, kudos to the Bucks front office, Like over the
years, they've proven themselves consistently willing to do what it takes to keep Jannis
around, to keep him happy and to make sure that there's a good team
around him. They've done Yeoman's work over the years. It's really good work.
And kudos to them for getting him to recommit for that, because that's
a big deal. I mean, it's a massive extension. It's worth it
for him, it's great money for him, it's life changing money. But
you know, it's really good work by the Bucks to get this done.
Yeah, I think I was surprised. I know the framing is he wants
to get back into free agency sooner. I'm very I'm not doubting him.
I'm just very interested to see how someone like Jianna's ages and so I always
just thought that he was going to sign when he could tack on firmly in
his prime, can tack on the most years possible. He's electing to play
sort of the over thirty eight rule game and try and get a bigger deal
at the back end of this one. I think even the two things was,
it was never like, oh, he's gonna leave Milwaukee. The fact
that he didn't have an extension before the Dame trade, it was just this
made if he wanted to make the most of his next deal, waiting made
the most sense. But also signing this he could still turn around in a
year whatever and then request out. I think the show of good faith by
both him and the organization is a big deal. They went out, they
got Dame, and he responds by signing a contract that takes him past Damian
Lillard's current contract right now. Even if you you know, let's throw out
the player option year like be just more use it, I think that still
takes him past when Damian Lillard would enter free agency. So I think that
winds up being a win just for both sides here. He is one of
the players, though when you look at when this deal is slated to expire,
he'll only be I think he has a player option at the age of
thirty two, so I'm not talking about someone who will be ancient by them
by any stretch, just his game. I'm very interested to see how well
it ages, what adjustments he makes as the athleticism starts to decline again.
I would have signed him to this deal. I think he is one of
the two or three best players in the league right now. But he's just
one of the players I've always looked at as fascinating what does his aging curve
look like? And this deal in that way almost benefits the Bucks a little
bit because as of right now, you're not going into his mid thirties like
the next deal may have if he elected to wait, would have taken him
through. It's okay, he's under contract to his age thirty two season.
Will still be pick poor at that point, but we'll be able to sort
of be on a rolling basis and look, some of their first round picks
will be unlocked by the time this deal comes towards its tail end. So
I think it was I was just a little bit surprised. I thought he
was going to prioritize the longer term, just guaranteed payday, rather than prioritizing
getting back into free agency sooner. That's the only thing that took me back.
I think Giannis is one of those guys I mean, like we've not
we you and I specifically, but I've talked a lot of people over the
years about like Kevin Durant being one where it's like it doesn't matter that he
blew his achilles. The man will make max contracts as long as he can.
I mean, if he can put up twenty points a game, he's
going to make max contracts as long as that's possible. You know, like
it doesn't really matter, or you know. I think in Giannis's case it
probably makes a little more sense because like he can say, look, you
know when that player option hits, you know, when that contract runs out.
I you know, if I want to walk, I can walk anywhere
and get max money even if he blewes, even if he broke his leg,
even if he blues me out, he would still get max money somewhere.
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it. I think I'm
probably just overstating age thirty two, Like that's not ancient like age, it's
just thirty three. What's that? Lillard's what thirty two? Thirty three?
I think he's thirty four? Is four? Let's say no, no,
you're right, he's got to be younger than thirty four. He is thirty
three, So just thirty thirty three? So is there what's the I'll throw
it to you, what is there another deal player that you wanted to talk
about I'm really interested. So so Minneapolis is fascinating to me. I already
brought it up. But Jaden McDaniels is really interesting. I watched some Minneapolis
last year, or not many, but Minnesota, you know what I mean.
Uh, with the classics, some people might appreciate that. Yeah,
but I watched some Timberwolves and it still felt like things weren't gelling on the
court. It's just it's a really it's a really expensive team. It's so
expensive and there's nothing really proven there yet. McDaniels is a good player.
He's a really good defensive player. Like it's you know, I feel like
it's probably fair money, maybe a little over, But I don't know the
team well enough to say for sure. Yeah, you know, I would
say that they got really lucky here. They have. They have some future
questions now about what I think is more interesting to both of us, the
implications of their payroll moving forward when you look at the teams that have cap
space next summer. I just talked about how teams are reticent to throw out
these offer sheets and restricted free agency. There was a chance that Jade McDaniels
was gonna get like Desmond Bane type money if they let him hit the open
market. I think there is when you watch him. I don't know that
we'll ever see it in Minnesota because of the hierarchy with Anthony Edwards, you
have Karl Anthony Towns, you even have Mike Conley in there. But like,
he can do things on the ball, and I think he's probably one
of the three best perimeter defenders in the league right now, and he's not
three. So yeah, get him on that. To get him on that
money, even if you don't look, I think it's fair to question the
value of it. But when you look at players who could have reached restricted
free agency next summer, and you're kind of looking at the Detroit So we
know that Philly has this cap space plan and maybe we'll get to them with
MAXI later. Like, there are teams that could have talked themselves into being
like, well, here's thirty million dollars a year for Jade McDaniels pretty easily,
and so I think I think they got extremely lucky here. The one
the one thing that I think about that though, is you know, I
feel like defensive defensive players who are not centers, there are diminishing returns it's
it's something like the running back position. I think it's the running back position
in the NFL, where it's sort of like unless you're like the pinnacle of
it, you know, there's there's diminishing returns when you get to a certain
point. So I do wonder with that team, like, yes, McDaniels
is an incredibly good defender, but also can you get by with a little
bit less on that side of the ball. I don't know. That's one
of those things that like it comes down to replacement value too, is like
can you turn McDaniels around and flip him into other stuff, you know,
down the line too, and maybe get a good defensive wing and like pieces,
it's I'm really fascinated to see what many what a Minnesota looks like long
term because it's it's just so expensive. Yeah, I think with Rudy getting
older and you're not sure whether heeps me want to be moved, and if
you're gonna play a lot with the two bigs where Towns is gonna be on
the floor, you almost it maybe necessitates paying McDaniels more. But this leads
into the discussion we start looking ahead to the summer of twenty twenty four,
they are, with Mike Conley's cap hold, about a two hundred million dollar
team. That is, I'm rounding it's not including any of the other contracts
that'll be on the books. But my point is that is I'm not saying
Comley will command thirty six million or whatever his cap hold is. I don't
think he would. But they are going to be a second Apron team if
they keep anybody. I do not think. I'm not trying to throw rain
on the parade of this season, where actually I'm pretty high on the Timberwolves
this year. I do not envision these five Comley, McDaniels, Anthony Edwards,
Cat and Gobert being together next year. And I think by making this
commitment now you've kind of almost not guaranteed that. But is there a chance
they speed it up if things aren't going according to plan and teams are interested
in Cat or Gobart at the deadline, notably Cat? Again, I think
this team is gonna be good. I'd bet against them shaking up their starting
lineup Bar and Disaster, but his cap hole's about to shoot up by like
thirteen million dollars a year. It'll be easier because the the Wolves will be
so financially inflexible to make a move involving him sooner rather than later. Again,
once more, wouldn't bet on it, but I would bet heavily against.
You know, even if my comley just leaves, you're still looking at
an incredibly expensive team and you're probably sitting here going go bear kat McDaniel's Anthony
Edwards aunt is guaranteed to be here long term because he is the timeline.
I would probably put Jaden McDaniels if I called him Josh McDaniels, I apologize.
I don't know why I would keep doing that. Jaden McDaniels at number
two there, but like after that, after Anthony Edward's basically like it's so
up in the air. Yeah, I like I said, it is just
a really fascinating situation because they're one of the teams there's a handful of teams
that I'm keeping an eye on for the next like year or two where it
feels like there's so much in flux with them. And it's not because they're
like a young team like a Hustoner or Oka. See, it's like they're
just they're in They're a team that's like good, right, now and has
a lot of questions about where they're where the cap situation sits for them long
term. I think Memphis could be in that conversation next year. Mini's up
there right now. Golden State is another one that's going to be really really
interesting to watch moving forwards. Clay Thompson, you know, that's that's a
I know, we don't necessarily want to get into everything like go too far
field from the extensions today, but Golden State's one that I'm really watching too.
Uh. Yeah, They're just perpetually interesting. Although it's funny that Draymond
Green said he probably wouldn't be on the Warriors this year, and he's on
the Warriors this year. So I'll be curious to see where the Clay Thompson
number whenever he signs, like his next deal lands at. But I'd be
pretty forward if he left. But you know, maybe not. It's a
new front office in there, so maybe Mike Dunleavy Junior and Kirk Lacub they've
been around, maybe they're not as married to keeping these guys together as as
Bob Myers might have been. You know. Another extension that kind of fascinated
me was Josh Green at three years and forty one million. I don't see
the full details on it yet, so I'm just assuming it's fully guaranteed,
but it's straight three years, forty one million. I thought that was pretty
good value for him. I do think it speaks to kind of how important
he is moving forward. But it's also a bet on what we need him
to do, the types of stuff that maybe he's not so comfortable doing.
Like we saw him improve at points last year his three point stroke and he
can get to the basket like in attack closeouts, but he really likes to
operate on ball like most of the time, and that's not something you're gonna
have the opportunity to do with Luca and Kyrie. And then on the defensive
end, he might be their most I know people want to frame Hi his
Grant Williams, but he's probably their most important perimeter defender unless you care you
think Derek Jones Junior is gonna play, and yet he's not really wing sized.
So it's just I don't have a problem with a number, it's just
an I'm interested. It's an interesting bet to say, hey, he's now
basically off the table in trade talks this year when they're a team that might
need to push some chipshit chick to maximize their timeline. The Poisonboo provision makes
a little bit harder to include him in any deal, so they've not taken
him off the table. I just I just found it an interesting decision,
not a bad one, just interesting. Yeah, I think that kind of
had to I think it's I think it's decent value for him. Just I
like I'm on record over the last several years, it's just not like pretty
much forever, not really liking anything that Dallas has done in terms of like
team building. It feels like they tend to bet on free agency a lot.
They do a lot of big swings, and they whiffed a lot of
them. They get some good guys around the edges. But this year's team
just really I don't like it. Man. I like they need maxi Cleeber
to be really good again, Like they need him to be good, healthy
and healthy. They need Grant Williams to like Grant Williams's best if he's not
your best defensive player, like they need him to be. Like they put
him in a situation from Boston where he was not the best defender on the
floor. He's not He was not the main guy in that defense. He's
a guy that's like good in scheme. But when you've got Luca and Kyrie
and like Tim Hardaway, like the guys on the stand, there's not a
lot of good defenders on this team. And Williams is gonna be asked to
do a lot. Clearan's gonna be asked to do a lot. Green's gonna
be asked to do a lot. That team scares me in terms of like
how it performs this year. They missed the playoffs last year. They're better.
They made smart moves generally over this summer, but I think they've kind
of paid themselves into a corner. Yeah, I was doing predictions for Bleacher
Report. I don't even know if this article is probably gonna be live.
By the time this goes live, I would think and I predicted that the
Masters are going to trade their twenty twenty seven first rounder this year, just
because the urgency surrounding Luca, the fact that they need like to just infuse
their rotation with more perimeter defense. I really Kirk Henderson from MAVs money Ball
sold me on Omax long term, went and dug into him. I like
him, but to lean on that as a rookie that's gonna be really tough.
Like you said, they have Grant Williams. I saw people frame his
addition as them getting a wing. He's not a wing, not an incredibly
switchable small or big who's probably best like, yeah, he can hang with
some wings, but that's not someone who's go check the opposition's best player,
Like no, he's probably gonna be better against explosive guys who go downhill,
but they're not gonna move as much latterly with the ball in their hands in
those situations. And then there's Josh Green, and like they clearly they understand
their deficit. They went after Matisse Thibel before they got went out and got
Grant Williams. But I think they're a team. I don't know what putting
you know now that trade offer, assuming Josh Green is not part of it,
your twenty twenty seven first in salary's a lot less attractive if you can't
include Josh Green in it. And so if you included Derek Lively or if
you included Omax, two guys you do seem invested in, especially o Max.
You took on money to get him like, I don't know if that
gets you. I don't think twenty twenty seven in salary gets you. O
g Ananoby, I think that he would probably net more. I know Dallas
is twenty twenty seven pick is interesting, but if that's the guy, I
don't I think that they would be outbid by a team like the Kings,
maybe even still the Grizzlies or the Knicks at this point. Yeah, I
think I think there's a lot of teams that could beat a Dallas offer for
most guys. Yeah, that twenty twenty seven I do think is is like
a good that's a good swing, you know, like you take the risk
of like if Don leaves, like that team could be real bad for a
hot minute. You know, we'll see. I Yeah, I don't know.
Is are there some guys that are like sort of in that second tier
like under like an Ananobe that would be gettable for them even because you build
I mean it would be tough maybe, but like in Atlanta, and maybe
this would be a good segue into Nyuka Kunglu. But like if you get
a Capella DeAndre Hunter type mega trade. Oh and I think do they want
more? Like they're not gonna want picks in that scenario, they're like,
maybe they're fine washing off of Capella's deal now, but they're not gonna be
looking to move DeAndre Hunter, like for Tim, like to use Tim Hardaway
Junior and like other stuff in that scenario. But that would be like the
second tier of type names I'm trying to think of, like other guys that
they could maybe take a swing on. I wonder what it would cost.
He didn't get an extension, but I would assume they can't even get in
on like a Patrick Williams week State Sweet Steaks if that, if that takes
place. Williams is interesting. Was Williams was extensional eligible today? Wasn't?
Yeah? I mean he was one that I didn't. Yeah, so you
know, we'll get into absences or maybe we could. Yeah, we'll get
into absences in a little bit. But he's like a name that stands out.
But yeah, I mean the second tier, even the guys like if
they're lower level three and D guys, it's still cost stuff to get them,
and so you know, like they would have been a team. I
don't even know, Like there's just I just don't understand. I don't know,
in a not even in an insulting way. I don't know what their
best trade package, Like, who's the best player that they can realistically get
with their top trade package? Right now? I thought og an Anobi would
be like within the realm of possibility because of some of the sweeteners they could
put on. And look, maybe if you're willing to give up O max
and that twenty twenty seven first and you throw some swaps in there, maybe
that does it. That's not you know, it's not a laughable offer.
No, But also as you're looking at like, hey, can we reacquire
Dorian Phiney Smithitt somewhere after the years off those lines, he would help.
He would maybe another another Nets wing. Oh O'Neill's are good. That's a
good name. Actually, the Nets have a bunch of like really useful role
players that people should put Like that whole roster is basically guys who should be
like a second to seventh man somewhere. I like a lot of guys on
that team, but not as a like cohesive team anyway. Did we want
to talk about Onyekakungu gets a four years and sixty two million that is never
going to be ten percent of the salary cap. Under the current projections,
keeping a theme of okay, that's backup big money. I don't envision him
being a backup big for long. He's a lot more mobile than Capella at
this point, not as big, but he's still really valuable on the offensive
glass. There's probably more dynamism to his offensive game, whereas like, I
don't like you're gonna trust him to put up those pushots and floaters more.
I don't know if he'll ever meaningfully expand his range beyond that, but that's
more than Capella can do right away. Better playmaker, like kind of in
the those same situations, not a capslock, a plus playmaker, but just
more versatility. I know they're looking to win now, and you could,
in theory, you could just keep both of them, but I kind of
felt like this poortended that he is the heir apparent to that center spot,
and we could see it not come after this season, but maybe closer to
the trade deadline, especially because they're considering their books and having Okungu as your
starting center at a cheaper rate than Capella makes if you want to have Dejonte,
Murray, Trey Young, DeAndre Hunter all on the books at once,
Don Madonovich too. It makes it easier to do that and stay. I
won't even say outside of the second apron, they're not a team that's going
to pay the tax. They've made that quite clear. Yeah, it makes
a ton of sense for them to move Capella. I was actually kind of
surprised it didn't happen this summer. But uh, Okolen, we're getting that
money. I think definitely moves that further along. I think that's a good
deal. Like I haven't watched that much Hawks, I will say like I
I kind of familiarize myself with them a little bit today going back and like
looking at some of the numbers and things, and and like he's he's a
good player for that, Like nas Reed, I think got more money than
that, Like there's several guys like backups, it's not as good. I
think he got four and forty two. If I'm not mistaken, maybe he
got less. That is a good deal for him. I think they still,
in my opinion, they stole him. I think it was four and
board they stole him, was how I how I framed it. Yeah,
but I feel like that backup big to like fringe starter market as anywhere,
but between like just like over em L money to like, because Emily's about
ten million right now if I remember right, and it's it's like over em
L money is so like twelve million ish to like, you know, fifteen
seventeen per year, and you were right ish on Nadre you got three and
forty two. Misremembered that. It's like that's right around mid level because that's
mid levels having between twelve and thirteen at the moment, is it okay?
Yeah, it was pretty half next year if I'm not mistaken, or was
twelve and a half this year? I thought it was ten this year,
but I'm oh, twenty twenty two to twenty three is ten ten and a
half. Yeah, so twenty four is a little higher. Yeah, you're
right, So yeah, I would I would agree that I think they did
well on a Kongo, But I do wonder if it, like, what
does this mean for that sort of center Gulagh. Maybe that's not you know,
maybe that's not something they decided to hit until the end of this year
because look at the Congo station and kicked Intil right now, they did elect
against extending Sadik Bay. I don't really think that's a big deal. But
it is kind of funny that part of the reason the Pistons were believed to
move him was because he of his extension number. But he was like more
than a year out from being extension eligible, and then he doesn't get one
from Atlanta, even though they're a team that could probably use his his three
point shooting, it can be inconsistent, and he's a wildly inconsistent player himself.
But maybe he was looking just for more. Maybe he viewed himself as
just like I consider myself a three and D wing, even though I don't
consider him much of the D in that right. Yeah, I mean,
there's definitely the guys that go the kind of bet on yourself route. I
mean, I remember was Butler that did well. Butler was a different situation.
I don't remember there was something with his deal. It's been a minute,
but Jimmy Butler famously that on himself and made a ton more money in
his contract year. Maybe that maybe they did that. We don't unless they
negotiate through the media, you don't really know. Were there any other extensions
that stood out to you? Cole Anthony feels good, Uhlin, Cole Anthony
feels fair. I keep waiting for Orlando to break out. They have a
bunch of guys that I really like. That team feels like it's on the
cusp of being real good. Anthony's a solid player. I think they did
good work getting him team option on that too. Three years thirty nine point
one. That's basically money and it's only two guaranteed years. I was were
you surprised he settled for that. I know there's sort of the stigma against
These dudes aren't big, they're volume scores. I would have thought he had
more leverage on Orlando, and maybe he doesn't, because they're pretty facible moving
forward. Their half court offense needs just these kind of players who can shoot,
dribble, and pass all together. He is one of I would say
three players who can maybe do that, and that's im Poalo and Franz Wagner.
The shooting for Polo is very much theoretical at this point, but so
now you have three players that could do that. But Cole Anthony is someone
who as a shot maker and like someone who can actually put the ball on
the floor in the half court is proven. So I'm a little bit that
it only cost about let's call it mL ish money to keep him for two
guaranteed years. I wonder if that says more about the archetype of player that
he is though than maybe his internal value to Orlando. Yeah, I feel
like that's probably the case there. He's like he's a solid player too.
I you know, I feel like I feel like they got they got a
good deal on that. There's a chance he significantly outperforms that, or maybe
not. It's like significantly significantly, but like there's a pretty good chance that
he's worth more than that to them, which I think is a win for
Orlando and maybe a win for him because you know, sometimes the guys want
the guaranteed money. You never really know what can happen in the NBA.
And look, if they're gonna be good this year, I don't know.
There'll probably be a point I think where they could technically out grow his skill
set. But just how important he is as a floor spacer. Looking at
them after they added Anthony Black, I don't know how much Jet Howard is
going to play right out the gate. How many minutes can Joe Ingles give
you that someone else who helps with the spacing. I mean, I know
Jet Howard is bigger, but Anthony. I think this season specifically, if
they're looking to make a play in or postseason push is massively important. And
now you have him. I don't look, we don't have to frame every
extension in terms of trade value. But that's a very movable deal for someone
who can come in, pump in a bunch of buckets and stretch the floor
for you on or off of it. If they do look to eventually make
these consolidation trades where it's, hey, they actually don't have a ton of
you know, movable money that's not core pieces, where it's like they have
all these kind of you know, Gary Harris's expiring this year, Joe ingles
like they have those shorter term deals, but this gives them something else to
use as salary matching tools. It's also, interestingly enough, a mini safeguard
I know, you have Black as well against what happens with Martel Fultz,
who's also went during the final year of his deal. Yeah, Folts is
fascinating because, like, I feel like he's low key. I mean he
plays on Orlando, and Orlando's been out of the spotlight. Folts is actually
low key, like a pretty good player. Now, oh yeah, he's
and I feel like without the spotlight on him, people are kind of sleeping
on the fact that Folks is gonna get good money. Yeah, he's what
is he at this year? He's at like seven seventeen, I would be
I don't want to use the word shocked because that might be inflammatory. If
he gets less than that or signs for less than that, I'd be pretty
He's still pretty young. His defensive valuability is big time, and like I
do get a little aggravated where I've had I normally don't respond to them,
but they are magic fans in the YouTube comments that'll say he hits mid range
jumpers, that's floor spacing. No, it's not. That's not floor spacing.
That's someone who has a mid range jumper on the ball. That is
important. He's valuable to your offense. He's he is their best passer right
now. I really think that Palo is eventually gonna usurp him, and we'll
have to see what happens with you know Ingles is there now, and we'll
see what type of ron Anthony Black gets. Yeah, he's a very good
player who it would not surprise me if his next deal is in the range
of like eighteen to twenty three million a year if it was five years,
Like yeah, okay, I might be a little floored by that, but
that feels like where his value he's gonna wind up being. Folts is a
guy that like, Orlando's a team that I'm looking at this year and I'm
looking at the number. They don't have a single guy on that roster over
twenty million. They've got a ton of really good young players. They feel
really right for a consolidation trade. And I wonder if they're the kind of
team that does the sort of like Sam Presty special, either trade for trade
out a guy that's on the last year so they can get their extension in
on their new team. Like where Folts you get like faults in somebody makes
gets you into like close to max money, if not into max money,
depending on the guy that you move, Like he could be a guy that
I could see, you know, you package him with expirings and some other
incentives and it gets you in the door for like a guy that you can
say, Okay, Orlando's back on the map now. I don't know,
would be interesting to see. They're a team though, that I will say.
And I think about okac in this vein too, and okay, SE's
clearly further along, and I'm higher on their future where I wonder what do
they need to make the move to reach that level because I think that between
Palo and Franz and then at the level that Wendell Carter Junior is already at,
like that's a fringe all star center and I'll die on that hill.
Who might be on the bet contract in the league, by the way,
at like one of the five best. Your team has so many guys I
love and like just smart contract, Like they've done a bunch of things right
and it just has not broken for them yet. And like last year,
after they're like they're pretty bad start, they end up being before their last
four games of the season that they kind of just punted on. They end
up being like a top six defense during that stretch. And it just comes
down to, Look, we've even seen some people are really low on him
still, and this is maybe it's because you said Orlando's not in the spotlight.
People aren't watching him. I get accused of not watching the Orlando Magic
all the time. Jalen Suggs is like loke he good now, like his
shot came a long way. Think he makes better decisions in space. I
don't think he's ever going to become that complicated ball handler, facilitator, self
creator. But you go look at who he's defending and how he's defending.
That is a real valuable NBA player. And so yes, Orlando in the
same vein as Okac, Maybe they do decide because they have this very clear
need, probably more so than Okac, where it's we need like to really
infuse versatility and spacing reliability into our half court, maybe to go out and
get that guy. But as I'm sitting here right now, could I guarantee
that, you know, the combination of Jet Howard, Anthony Black's development,
maybe Suggs gets a little better as Palom and France continue to get better.
Well, I sit here and say they definitely don't have enough to just keep
rolling it forward. I will absolutely not say that because they might right.
But I do think it's one of those things where there's also off the court
side that plays into it too. I mean, I don't know if sometimes
ownership gets impatient. You know, sometimes it's like we've been out of the
spotlight so long, we got to do something, and you saw it with
the Wolves. I remember it happening with the Pelicans with Anthony Davis. You
know, there's there's a few teams that you've seen around the league where it's
like, you get to a certain point, it's like all right, uh,
Philly, uh in the Colangelo era, Collegiate collogi whatever the like,
where where they say, Okay, we need to get a guy in here,
we need to be relevant right now just because like ticket sales or like
just being part of the overall NB A discussion, we need to make the
playoffs, you know, anything like that. So I do wonder if that
might be a factor in it too. But it is interesting just in the
light of the the extension there, I think they've got. It's a smart
extension. It's a good They've got a good foundation in place. And it's
the other thing you mentioned this with Minnesota, they might just get too expensive
because then you know, you get to next summer, Mark el Foltz needs
a new deal, and then we're talking about an extension for Franz Wagner,
We're talking about Jaalen Suggs is Extensionaledgable the year after that, pallow is extension
eligible. So from next summer, they probably about like, okay, two
years because Mindel Carter Junior is eventually not going to be worth you know,
seven percent of the salary cap whatever he is now, So they probably have
another like two summers where they can be ultra flexible and play it a little
slow. But as you get more expensive, We've seen it with teams including
the Thunder in the past, like you start to make these wholesale decisions and
these these bigger swings. So they're on probably still more gradual timeline and there's
a chance that it breaks without them doing anything, which is super intriguing.
The other one of the other deals that I I don't want to say was
surprise. Actually I was surprised Denny Avia gets four years fifty five million.
It declines. He's not Michael Winger or Dawkins's guy, So I was I
didn't think he was going to sign one, and I thought his role was
a little bit confusing. But I think again I mentioned it's declining, so
that's big. This is also someone who is younger than you think, so
this this extension takes him through his age twenty sixth season and he'll never he
might make ten percent of the salary capping a year long of one of the
extension might at fifteen point six million. I think he is I don't want
to say underrated defensively, but overlooked defensively for the breath of assignments he can
cover. He's very physical, has pretty good foot speed for his size.
Offensively, the big question everyone wants to focus on, can the stand still
threes falls? I think that's fair. I think you also need to question
maybe the three dozen fall? But can he be aggressive on drives? More
like that comes and goes? And he's a pretty good facilitator when he gets
when he gets moving, and he can have some of these gritty guys are
bouncing off my shoulder. Physical finishes when he really sets himself to it.
The offensive consistency and I guess roll clarifications the big one with him. But
I think at four years and fifty five million, he's not someone that you
were going to net a ransom for it if he moved him this summer,
as you mentioned at the top of this, as a salary matching piece,
if they eventually want to move on from him, or if it hits because
I'm assuming he's gonna have a ton of agency this year, even with Jordan
Poole and Kyle Kuzman Balal Kilbali in the fold, maybe he hits for you
finally, and now you just have this guy who's on a pretty team friendly
contract, and even based off his body of work, if you're just basing
this solely off what he's done and not trying to project forward, I don't
even know that this is It might be an overpaying year one and then because
it's one. I mean, that's that's kind of how I feel about the
Doork deal that they did a couple of years ago, and for the Thunder,
which is around the same money. If I remember right where, it's
like, you got a guy who's a good defender. You know, the
rest will you know, either come or it won't. It's a little bit
of an overpay, you know, to start with, and then the cap
goes up. You've got a salary matching piece. You have a guy that
could still pop for you, and it could be plus value. I think
that's that's an extension that usually is not going to be even if it doesn't
go well for you. It's unless the guy like destroys his leg. It's
almost never one of those like Black Eye contracts, it's solid. No,
I'm with you there. The other one that was sort of he signs it
and he's not really yet proven, at least relative to them. Zeke Nagy,
it's such a pittance that I don't know how you could have I know,
I actually saw some people wondering, oh, how to get thirty two
million for over four years? Maybe that's sticker shot. Yeah, it's nothing.
And the other thing is just like I I go back and forth because
the Nuggets have been hyping up a Zeke Nagy breakout for like eighty years at
this point, but when we've seen him play like he's not as of right
now, he can't play a ton of center. There's questions about his rebounding.
He is actually one of the most switchable bigs on the defensive end.
And if his three point stroke is gonna fall, and we've seen it fall,
we've seen it come and go, but we've seen it fall. That's
like so someone who you can like, that's like Grant Williams, but potentially
better when you kind of look at what he can. He's got a little
bit more downhill juice, I will say when he's off the ball than a
grant Williams would so four years and thirty two million. I'm hoping and this
is why I'm putting out there that this sort of signals, Okay, they
are invested in Zeke Naji actually playing this year. And I think that that's
a reasonable like assumption for me to make because when you look at who they're
relying on after their top five guys, Okay, Christian Brown, he's he's
proven for what he did in the playoffs last year. Yeah, but after
that, it's okay, I know you like Peyton Watson. I know you
signed Reggie Jackson. I know you have Julian Strouther. I know you maybe
want to look at Jalen Pickett. A lot of people think Hunter Tyson will
be the most played rookie that they have, but Zi Nashi might be the
closest thing after your top six to a sure thing that you have in your
bench rotation. Yeah, so there's a lot of question marks there. Yeah,
and it's I mean, it's always been that they had a bad bench
last year, and maybe Mike Michael Malone will mess up with some of his
substitution patterns where we see three bench players put Jokis and Murray more than we
have in the past. I like the deal because I think na she is
a really good player, and I don't think this isn't a matter of well,
you know, Kole Jokic is burying him and he's not because he's not
a center. And I think that's been that's been proven time and time again
here. So I thought that was good money and a good gamble to make
by them, and I'm hoping that it shows. Okay, we are actually
married to the Zeke Naji experiences this year. Yeah, I pretty much one
hundred percent agree with you there. I'm I'm really the Nuggets are an interesting
team this year, like nause Like you said, it's it's Nausee and Christian
Christian Brown and then like, yeah, it's you've got like an eight man
rotation. Reggie Jackson's fine. Like they're very high on Peyton Watson and as
am I Calvin Booth thinks Peyton Watson is gonna be like a future Hall of
Famer. I actually I think he could be really good. I think there's
probably more ball handling he has to offer, and it wouldn't shock me if
like maybe not this year, but is there there's a I called a non
zero chance that we're like, oh, you don't need like to rely as
heavily on a Reggie Jackson in order to ask Christian Brown to develop more ball
handling skills or rely on jell and pick it because Peyton Watson just gives you
sort of that secondary stuff. We know how long he is as a wing,
so I I think he might be their seventh best player this year.
Like that's I am pretty I'm Peyton Watson. But if you're trying to go,
we need to count certainties or guys who might be bankable, it's your
top six because I think Christian Brown has earned the right to be there.
And I mean if you want to include Reggie Jackson, I don't know why
you would after what happened last season, but these Naugy definitely belongs in that
discussion. Yeah, I mean, I'm just thinking, like playoff rotation,
there aren't a lot of rookies that like come in and are immediately impactful in
the playoffs. They do have one of them. They do have one of
them. Crazy they've done it before, So I mean you gotta have,
Like, if you're in the Nuggets, you're hoping one of those guys pops.
You're hoping nausey pops and you need one other guy to pop because they
kind of have enough flyers to where okay, you could envision it happening,
but it's it's fair to question they bet on themselves. I did a video
on this, and I think it's a fair bet to make, but it's
a risky bet. It's a risky bet to make, and so I don't
think this deal like is a gamble. It's like you said, even if
it goes like belly up poor, it's it's going to be fine. I
was I'm not surprised he signed it. I was just like, oh,
so they actually are kind of invested in him, But it didn't really seem
like they were the past, especially because in the playoffs you might just see
some more. Was it like kind of Aaron Gordon at the five stuff.
There wasn't a ton of that this past year, but they did experiment with
it, as you're shortening your rotation, so that'll be something to monitor.
Are there any other extensions that you wanted to touch on? I I don't
think there's any others that came through today that were that. I mean,
there's there was a lot of like smaller there's a lot of smaller stuff.
I think we covered most of the major stuff. I think the two that
we haven't hit on that I found surprising that they were just deemed priorities a
little bit so the Zach Collins veteran extension, not a rookie extension. I
want to make that queer, but that was they got him on a steel
and then they now extend him for two years and thirty four point eight.
Now Zach Collins at his peak when he is healthy, which is not all
the time, but he was fairly healthy this year. He stretches the floor,
he protects the rim. I think he showed really good mobility. This
just feels like this might have been the one where it's like, oh,
is it maybe an overpay because you're gonna bet on him to stay healthy if
he is healthy, though, he makes so much sense next to Victor Webbinyama,
who you don't want to play the five. Yeah, that's a big
swing in Collins's health. I'm on record on with a couple of people talking
about the Spurs stuff that Collins that extension scares me a little bit. If
he is if you're getting like sixty games at least a year of Zach Collins
and he's healthy in the playoffs, he outperforms that. Yeah, I mean,
but you look at the injury history and it's it's scary. Yeah,
it's the injury scary and even sort of just like when you look at the
Okay, he's shown that he pen space the floor, but it's never been
Wow, look at how many threes Zach Collins just made, Like this is
someone who you know, let's break it down per minuix. I know he's
go play the most Like he's never attempted four three pointed deeps per thirty six
minutes and so early on when you're dealing with a half court Spurs offense,
that will be in a deficiency in playmaking unless I'm a believer in Devin Vessel
and Jeremy Sowen and Victor Wimbanyama. Of course, but you have Trey Jones
and that's kind of like now you're leaning on a bunch of question marks there
unless you think Devonte Graham plays a bigger role, but like you need him
to take and make more threes than that. But the question comes into play,
are you giving him this money again? This season doesn't matter because how
o of a capit he is. Butre you're giving him this money just to
play, you know, twenty minutes a game. He played twenty two to
nine last year. I guess that's fine if he's playing that, but can
he get up a little bit more threes? That was the one. It's
again, the number is so tiny when you're like we're talking about like twelve
ten percent of the salary cap whatever, But it was just like did you
need to do this? Like did this make sense for you right now?
So, and that's like the strongest All these deals look so okay to great
in the context of a rising salary cap. But that is the biggest insult
that I can work critique. I can kind of hes like, did you
need to do this now? Like did you need to? Yeah? I
do think and I think this is a thing with kind of anyone from that
GM tree. I'm just thinking opressed you as well. Like the Spurs like
to lock guys up early if they want to keep him around. It's a
great point, especially in some of the very small markets. I think that's
something that you don't want a guy to test free agency. You want to
make sure that he feels appreciated as soon as possible, you know, don't
hardball the guy. Take care of your players, otherwise you wind up with
the Haywood situation right where they let him test free agency, they matched him,
and then a couple of years later he just leaves anyway, you know.
Like, I think that's why a lot of these smaller teams tend to,
you know, even if it's a little bit of an overpay, they're
fine with locking a guy up early just to make sure that like he doesn't,
you know, test free agency. Because I don't know. That's that's
the big question mark for me. I can't believe I forgot Zach Collins because
I was because everyone was clowning his his extension announcement for looking like a funeral
invitation. Oh I didn't see. It wasn't really that bad. It's really
bad. You need to go look it up on Twitter after this. But
yeah, he he's just a big question mark. Like I love the ideal.
I loved him when he was drafted. I love the idea of Zach
Collins, the platonic idea of Zach Collins playing at least sixty games and being
the player that I know he can be. It's just does that happen?
That's the big question. Yeah, it's the available enough is really what it
is. I think they probably have him in the good role, and I
think the final one before we get to players that did not sign extensions that
would be noteworthy, aaron Nie Smith was not. I know the Pacers need
they have a wing deficit, and he's someone who could play a lot of
the four for them. Three years, thirty three million, it's a fine
number. Someone who's gonna hit threes. He's probably overmatched defensively with a lot
of assignments they put him up against, does have quick hands. I don't
know if they saw him like he was kind of dribbling more in the preseason,
they were like, you know what, like we're gonna bet on this,
like we've seen him like now, it's like, okay, this is
more than just someone who's like three ish and d ish is what I would
call him. So I think that I just was like, oh, that's
that's just interesting that But it could just come back to, hey, we
want to roll these deals over into having these assets to move as money matchers,
but they also they are it's such a wing deficit that it did.
It surprised me a little bit. Yeah, well, Indy's another one.
I think that's like it's another small market thing. Is like they like to
like lock their guys up early, you know, Nie Smith. I honestly
I did not watch a ton of Pacers last year. I know I see
some stuff. Yeah, I see some stuff come through from Kaitlin Cooper.
I know they're they were fun. I just didn't get to see a lot
of them, So I don't really know. On the Nie Smith one,
I can look at the numbers, and I can look at the extension dollar
amount and say, yeah, it looks fine. I mean, same as
a lot of the other ones that we talked about here. The pacers have
got some questions. One of them's buddy Healed. You know, how happy
is he long term? And like you said, it's like the wings,
the wings are so thin there, I could see them. Yeah, they
need me Smith, I think, just to play, even even just as
a body. Yeah, and I mean he will play and he'll probably be
effective for them. We'll see if they look they like to play really small
based off their personal all right. Now, I think he's arguably so important
how they're doing that when you want to play Hallie Brown and Benedict Mathrin together,
like you need Naismith to be like, okay, he could play a
bunch of four, especially if and this, I think this will be someone
who appears on the Oh he didn't get an extension, You don't really know
what you're gonna have in Obi Toppin Yeah, Rick Carlisle Kaitlon Cooper just wrote
about this. Seemed to telegraph that Jars Walker is going to be spend a
lot of time in the G League, maybe more than the big club rotation.
And so like you need reliable bodies that are going to be at not
just at that spot, but that can function in these lineups that are going
to give up a ton of size. And I think Nie Smith is one
of those guys. I just didn't expect him to. Again, this comes
back to the theme of we might just be seeing guys sign extensions more often
from here on. Yeah, I mean, I think that's a general theme
around the league, Like, is we're going to see more extensions as guys
like number one, the incentives for extensions are higher than they used to be.
Being able to sign with your team and make more money is a big
thing, especially for like Max Supermax players. You know you're gonna see a
lot more guys who are just their extensions and then asking for trades if they
want out after that. Damian Lillard, you know, some of these smaller
salaries you know you're going to see because teams want to have them for salary
matching. They don't know exactly what the cat picture is going to look like
long term, so they're stockpiling assets and guys at various numbers so that they're
able to do trades. They're getting guys locked in now so that they're prepared
for the cat going up. I think especially the next like two years,
we're going to see a lot of this. Did you want to talk about
some guys that you were shocked and not get or just you figure noteworthy that
they didn't sign an extension. Well, obviously we have to talk about my
boy Poku. Yeah. I don't know this is that pokuo is worth the
max. I actually posted on Twitter earlier today that I'm I was dreading them
signing him to a big to a larger money extension than I thought was worth.
He's one that he's still dice roll. I don't know. I don't
know if you know this, its like you should try careful him like a
Poku die hard. I think that there's like we've seen the outlines of a
really complimentary NBA player, especially last season, that if he's going to stay
healthy, someone who knows kind of where to be off the ball now can
do crazy stuff on the ball and get into the lane if you have enough
space. But even some of his defensive rotations last year, they felt you
watched more OKAYC than I did. But I went on the Uncontested podcast a
few weeks ago and I campaigned once again extremely hard for my God Poker.
No. I like Poku. I'm just I I think it was smart not
locking him in yet. I'm just even if it was like the Zeke Naogy
special, I'm so I'm so gumshy about thunder rookie deal guys at this point,
there's been so many guys over the years that I've been like, this
guy is going to be really good. And then just like so I love
the idea of Poku. He's shown flat like he's still a magic eight ball.
On offense, you shake the eight ball sometimes it comes up, you
know, and he just throws the most insane pass you've ever seen, to
like bullet right to the hoop, a weird lob or something like that,
somebody catches in the perfect spot whatever, and then sometimes he just throws it
in the stands, you know, like that's still the guy that you're getting.
I think there is a productive player in there, but I am real
scared of him just not ever being the guy that he's that we hope he
is. I was pretty surprised that the Pistons didn't give a nice payday to
James Wiseman, because at some point they're gonna have fewer than eighty centers on
the roster and I just don't I don't know how they're gonna deal with that.
I don't I don't understand the Pistons. Oh no, I don't even
think we need to find have you been? I'm pretty I follow a bunch
of people from Pistons Twitter and just between Laz Jackson Homie of the Pod and
you know, following these other people who are in there. They seem so
down on the Pistons direction, to the point of not that they're predicting catastrophe,
but they don't understand what's happening. And so it's they have a bunch
of these exciting young players when you look at Kay Cunningham j andn ivy Asar
Thompson. But when you're fans, when you're people who are really like the
bloggers and the podcasters who are very plugged into the team, don't really seem
to support or understand your direction, it's very uncomfortable. I think when I
was doing win totals with my co host Grant, they were the team that
I kept ripping. I ended up with too many wins. Surprise, surprise,
I had to subtract fifty wins. I'm always too optimistic. They were
the team that I kept stripping away from because I'm just like, I'm not
saying they're not going to try to win games at some point, But I
don't understand the theory of this team just yet, even if I like a
lot of the individuals. Yeah, I think it's one of those things where
just knowing that the history with the Thunder, like they're stockpiling a bunch of
guys for like athleticism and speed and power and size, and just like get
all the guys in, see what we have and then figure it out from
there. I just there's a level of winnowing there and like on the court
logic that I'm not seeing. Yeah, like they can't play. Maybe you're
seeing stuff, Maybe you're seeing stuff in the locker room, maybe you're seeing
stuff on the practice court. You know of how guys are doing, but
they can't play everybody at the positions that they want to play anyway. Sorry,
it's frustrating to me because I like it. I like a bunch of
guys on that team, and I don't see it making sense. I think
the most encouraging harbinger for them is that Manti Williams has said, like they're
not aside from the stewart during minutes, that they're not going to play a
lot of duel bigs. And I think that's encouraging because we don't need to
see Bagley Wiseman together ever again frankly, But you still know, it's tough
if you ever want to get to lineups where it's you know, kid,
let's say plus three shooters, so you'll have Duran in there. Let's just
assume well, it's, well, can you play J. N Ivey,
endors R. Thompson as part of your three shooters? We don't really know
about that. Can you play kit if you want to surround j n Ivy
with shooters Keg Cunningham, I think he will. I'm pretty high on him.
Yeah, But so that's the they've run into some functional questions. That
was not actually the extension that we didn't see. I was gonna throw you
Emmanuel quickly. I think is probably aside from Tyrese Maxi, who we can
get into after this, is the most notable one who didn't sign a deal
if I'm mistaken, and I think I get it because of what happened in
the playoffs. But at the same time, when you look at what he
did in the regular season defensively, how he kind of turned his offense around,
and I was going through just some of the numbers to see, okay,
well, like who played a bunch and put up some of these numbers.
And so since twenty twelve thirteen, there are thirteen guys who have averaged
while playing over two thousand minutes. They've averaged per thirty six eighteen points,
four assists, and then shot at least fifty percent on twos and thirty seven
percent on threes. You have IQ and Andfrey Simons who did it last year,
you have Darius Garland, Trey Young, Brandon Ingram, Colin Sexton,
Jason Tatum, Brandon Ingram again, Zach Lavine, Bradley Beal, Nikole Jokic,
Kyrie again, and then Kevin Durant to round out that list. So
it wasn't thirteen players, but it's happened thirteen times eleven players. I don't
think he's on the level of anyone I just mentioned. I want to make
that clear, But if he had another season like he did, you might
look back and say, if you had the chance to wrap him up for
twenty five million a year or whatever, that could come back to bite you.
Yeah. No, he's He's definitely one. I actually I drafted him
on my fantasy team this year because I do think he's gonna be good.
I just I don't get not locking him down. Yeah, he's one of
the ones. It's not even it's not even like it's a rookie guy who's
like not played a ton and you don't really know what you're getting. He's
proven, like he's proven even that he can play. And I do wonder
if it's maybe something like we talked about at the beginning, where you know,
maybe it's like, Okay, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna better
myself and I'm gonna make more money. Yeah, I'm I'm very curious to
see and I was going through. Fred Katz wrote something on this for The
Athletic. It doesn't seem like there was a number unless I missed it that
was just like being that would have done it for them, or the number
that they were throwing out that he just didn't want to sign for. I
would need to know again, are they that were they basing it on?
Okay, we didn't really see his breakout come until this year, especially defensively,
and then we see what happens in the playoffs where he just falls off
a great deal on offense. Is it that trepidation or is it just he
you mentioned bet on himself where he just decided like, no, I'm a
thirty million dollar a year player or somewhere I'm a twenty seven million dollar a
year player. And you're kind of at the point where it's, well,
well, then wait, because we think that you'll if we have to pay
you, that'll be the money we have to pay you later, So we
might as well work with your smaller cap hold, right, next summer.
The only thing there, the only thing there for him. I wonder if
this is one of those situations where he should have signed it, if it
was anything near like twenty million twenty one million a year, because what if
you don't just between you know, they have they have John Brunton, obviously,
they have Quentin Grimes, There's R. J. Barrett, There's Josh
Hart. You add Dante DiVincenzo went to the fold. There's all these guys,
are you know, moving around? They're not all gonna play guard.
But like, could you get with the addition of Dante DiVincenzo, is your
chances of closing games even lower? And that's not something that necessarily he was
doing every game. But like you look at it, are we gonna pay
this guy x because he is one of our four or five most important players?
Is there a chance to just not because of this sheer pecking order now?
And so should you have locked down the money? I find it.
I find it fascinating from both perspectives. Obviously I could see the risk in
IQ not signing on IQ's behalf, but I could also see the risk in
the Knicks saying, damn, like what the heck like, I don't know,
like what number is he gonna end up actually getting and then are we
gonna match it or we gonna end up letting him walk because the number is
just too high. Yeah, I'm I was listening. I was also just
like looking at the NIXT cap right now. Even if they I mean even
with a lower cap hold for quickly, there's still they're still over the cap
next year. So it's definitely not to go like free agency hunting, right
is it to keep their optionality open via trades? I just struggle. My
thing there is he makes so little and then like with him approaching extension eligibility
or rather a new deal, how much value does he add to any trade
package? Is it worth saying, hey, we're not going to sign you
to an extension because we might want to include you in a bigger trade package.
Yeah, I don't know. I mean I could, I could see
that because obviously, like if you sign it to an extension, now he's
poison pill and you know that becomes its own, you know, issue to
deal with. I don't know, I don't get it. I mean,
he's he's he's a bargain right now, formally in a year, I just
the Knicks. I'm not going to knock the next too much because it just
feels nice to see like competence out of that front office. They've just been
going for big swing after big swing, you know, year after year after
year after year after year and just whiffing. It feels weird to knock them
for being too conservative, Like this is the sort of thing that like it.
You know, if this was the mix of a few years ago,
you'd be like, oh, yeah, one hundred percent. They're just like
they're keeping his capital back so they can clear the books and go big game
hunting and free agency this iteration the next. I'm really not sure Kats would
have a better idea than I would because he watches more of their stuff.
But yeah, I don't get it, Tyreeks. Maxie we knew was not
going to get an extension, and he might be unless there's anyone else you
want to talk about where we wrap up there. I don't think they're taking
a risk there, to be honest with you, just because he probably would
have commanded Max or near max money and like if he was going to give
you the Devin Vessel or Jade McDaniel's deal right now, but if he's going
to get you the Desmond Bane like, if that's just what his number was,
they as long as they don't believe they're risking goodwill by leaving him on
time, because I do think that's important between him and his agent. I
don't really think we expected it. We understand what they're doing with his capital.
I think they have the ability to get sixty five plus million in cap
space right now for next year. That's being able to keep Tyre's MAXI giving
out a pretty expensive max and then still having a whole bunch of money left
over depending on what you get back in the James Harden trade, assuming that
he actually does get get traded. So if you're if you're them though,
just based off how everything is gone right now, are you actually comfortable going
this route? Knowing I talked to Brian to Porik about this a lot.
We're talking about capspace, cap space, capspace for Philly. What about free
agency the past few years makes you think that like cap space, cap space,
cap space matters a great deal. And if the guy you're circling is
if it's og Ananobi, like, that's not the guy you plan your franchise
around. I know Pastco Siakam will be a free agent, and it doesn't
you know, the whole stuff with the raptors, that's real and we've seen
the raptors like guys leave for nothing already in Fred Van Fleet, I just
find it it might be more independent of the MAXI discussion. You just maybe
you want to maximize your flexibility anyway for trades until he he signs. But
I find it fascinating that they seem to be banking so much on cap space
doing so much for them, quite frankly, when it hasn't done a lot
for most teams lately. Yeah, well and More too. I mean cap
space isn't just useful for for a free agency too, because I think I
think, like I know, you know that, but like just for the
benefit of the of the viewers listeners, you know, like you can just
you can absorb bigger deals back and that sort of thing, which can be
helpful. And I think More is kind of trying to keep his options open.
But yeah, I look, I'm a thunder fan. I live in
Oklahoma City. Like, I don't get the mindset of doing big swings for
free agency because I don't follow a team that will ever get big names in
free agency, you know, unless they're already on the team, Like that's
just you know, unless you're in like four or five markets, usually free
agency is bad idea for you. So Philly might be one where you where
free agency might be a good idea. They have a superstar, they have
a very very good player, maybe star in MAXI I think you call him
a star. He's at least has that trajectory to where you could envision him
making multiple All Star appearances pretty easily. Yeah, So it's it's it's it's
a roll of the dice and More is a gambler. He'll he'll take that
swing. I would not be comfortable taking that swing. But I'm also not
in charge of the team, So I get it though. If it was
the ask was just what we want one of those fots like the Desmond Bane
Special I just called like because that was the one where it's like, oh,
there was just no we're just going straight five years like that things getting
this money. If that was the ask, then I understand waiting and being
like, well, you know we're gonna have to pay you this anyway,
so we're going to wait. If he actually the one other player I want
to touch on you mentioned him already. Was Patrick Williams no extension for him
that I thought he made strides defensively last year help defense got a lot better.
He's always been someone that you could throw on maybe the opposition's best player,
or at least move him around a bunch. I'm very curious to see
if he has any sort of just I don't want to say offensive breakout,
but material offensive progression where it's, oh, he's taking more threes in the
efficiency hole and we're seeing him create a little bit, even though it's kind
of tough to get the lineups that will allow him to do that. Did
the Bulls kind of not understanding where they are in the pecking order Derozans hitting
free agency next year. I know they've kind of they've built their team like
they're all about now, but they are also a team that you could very
easily envision just pivoting into a rebuild or a tear down at midseason if it's
not going well. Did that factor into this at all? I know Zach
Low had said that he wanted an astronomical number, and so if he really
wanted like Desmond Bain money, or if he wanted twenty five plus million dollars
a year. I get it. He is someone though, just based off
the archetype of player that he is. If he has any reasonable progress being
made offensively this year, that would be a player, just like I said
it with Jade McDaniels. If you let him into restricted regency, I really
do think someone will tie up their cap space to give him an offer sheet.
If there's anything we know about Chicago is that if there is a cheap
route to be taken, they will take it. You know, I can
one hundred percent like, and that's that's not a knock on their front office,
that's a knock knock on their ownership. The book is out in rhinstor
if we all know what he's like, one hundred percent believe that the mandate
from ownership is make him prove it. You know. And look, if
he's asking for like twenty five twenty seven million a year or whatever it is,
I I get it, that sounds high. Yeah, Like I love
Patrick Williams, but I would say prove it too, just because he has
not shown the same level of defensive impact as Jane McDaniels, nowhere nowhere close.
He might be seeing those deals for Devin Vessel and Jade McDaniels and saying,
oh, but like he has just not shown he has not shown anywhere
near the offensive influence that Devin Vessel can have, and he's shown nowhere near
the defensive influence that Jade McDaniels has have. I think he can count himself
as a two way ish player. But it's just like, what do you
pay that person? And if he again, if he's asking for that much,
yeah, you know, I'll roll the dice because I don't know what
type of year is past. Does Patrick Lams need to have that the team
that does give him an offer sheet is given him more than thirty million dollars
a year or something? Yep, Yeah, I mean he'd have to have
like he'd have to have a Jimmy Butler like references before it's Jimmy Butler going
from like a million a year to like, what was it twenty five thirty
whatever at max contract, Like he'd have to have that kind of year to
get that kind of money. Yeah, you're talking like Baine money, Like
you said, you already named some of the names of Wassel, McDaniels,
Baine, Like they've all shown more than he has. Yeah, he just
he hasn't yet to maintain. He's showcased, but he's yet to maintain like
that elite skill set in any area. Before I let you go, Is
there anyone else or anything else that you wanted to talk about? Uh?
Nothing that comes to mind off the top of my head. I mean we've
covered a lot of ground here. Obie Toppin was never getting an extension.
He's my guy, but like the Pacers need to see the theory of Obi
Toppin with their best players before you pay him. Yeah, we touched on
him briefly when we were talking about Nie Smith, but yeah, Illian Hayes
is kind of just like he's there's no path to him, like staying in
Detroit. Quite frankly, at this point with Jay and Ivy and Kid Cunningham
and Arsara Thompson, there prescious a chew after the year he had. That
didn't surprise me. Isaaca Coro. I'm wondering if that was a situation where
Tay bet on myself because I hit three that No K clip by the end
of last year and I'm so important defensively, but if I'm Thecalves, I
don't know what you know if he would have done Like, I don't even
know if I would have given him the NAS read Like if it was three
years and forty two, I might have done it, but he might be
thinking like maybe, So I'm just curious as to what the number would have.
He's probably of the ones we didn't talk about. I looked at him,
going, okay, like they do still need him defensively, but are
they kind of saying we need to see what you are offensively on this team
kind of translate to the playoffs, even if it's going to come in the
regular season. So even more so than a Sadik bay not getting one,
even more so than Patrick Williams was not getting one, I'm actually a little
bit fascinated by Isaaca Korro not getting an extension. Yeah, he yeah,
he's he's one that like I could see him getting something like you said,
like at the read level, but I don't. Yeah, he's a guy
that I want that on the team can say, well, let's go see
what team is coming in even if you have a great year and trying to
pay you based off what we just saw in this year's restricted free agency.
Yeah, there's a few guys that I think will probably test. I mean,
well, I guess now they kind of have to test. You know,
this is like Quickly's one, a Korra's one. Hayes I really Hayes
I low key like a lot. Really, Yeah, that is we might
be I like him. Defensively, I don't aside from like one month a
year. Offensively, I don't really know what to make of him. Yeah,
he's He's a guy that I'm kind of intrigued by the idea of if
he puts it together and he's done a few things, like I've just seen
him a few times in Pistons games and been like, hmm, that's a
guy. But he I feel like he'll get traded this year. That seems
like someone's gonna try to take the flyer on him and he'll get traded.
Yeah, Detroit needs to consolidate. David, thank you so much for coming
on. Are you able to tell our listeners where they can find you on
social media and perhaps any work that you might be planning to put out in
the future. Yeah, absolutely, I am that at bird Rights NBA on
Twitter. I'm on a couple of other platforms as well, but that's where
I'm most active and then I occasionally write for Daily Thunder. Hit me up
on Twitter, you know, shoot me a DM, you know, drop
something in my mentions. Always happy to chat basketball. I don't know,
like I haven't done a ton of basketball writing in the last little while,
but that I've had a couple of podcast invitations lately and it seems like there
might be some opportunities so I may get back into it. So I support
it and thank you for coming on and wrapping about extensions at in the dead
of night on a Monday, as only you could. So thank you so
much. And guys, you don't follow him already after it writes MBA on
Twitter, go check it out. And until next time, I'll talk to
you soon, David, thanks so much, appreciate it. Dain