Welcome to another episode of Blood and Dust. I'm joined by my esteemed colleagues,
Julian Matt. How are you guys doing today? Pretty good? Great?
How are you doing? I can't compline. I actually I'm going to
complain, but ain't. Nobody gonna list. Nobody cares. So it's just
I'm like super tired and busy all weekend, just running around like crazy.
So I'm actually this probably the first time I've sat down other than sleeping in
like two days, so it's kind of nice. That's how I'm doing.
Today was my kid's birthday, So happy birthday, ju, Happy birthday.
Hell, Halloween b Day. It's like the best birthday ever. Yeah,
he doesn't hate it, that's for sure. They used to call him,
make fun of him at school and stuff like that, call him like demon
boy and god, kids are so mean. Yeah. Yeah, I was
like, kids don't know how awesome your birthday is. They'll find out eventually.
Yeah, that's a pretty cool birthday. Yeah. We're just getting ready
for trick or treating and I took a giant nap before this podcast. I'm
sorry, justin, I don't know. I mean, that hurts me in
my heart, but It was a good nap until my kid woke me up
to tell me his iPad died. All right, so today we're gonna be
talking about Bass Reeves and what did you guys think about without giving too much
way, would you guys think about him? I kind of had a background
knowledge of them already. I had read about him a couple of times,
so I kind of knew the bullet points that there are to know about them.
That's good. Yeah, I had never to be honest, I've never
heard of bass Roofs before. We had so many suggestions for him, and
I am pretty impressed. Yeah, I can see why there were a lot
of suggestions. I think going forward with this podcast in the future, it's
gonna be hard to cover someone as amazing as this freaking guy was. To
be honest with you, it's gonna be hard. We'll try, but it's
gonna be hard. Man. He was a pretty amazing dude. It was
bordering on superhero literally. Yeah, he was. Man. Yeah, I
can't really say much more than that than you know, spoiling anything, but
he was fantastic. I don't think they make them like that anymore. No,
absolutely not. He went through a lot and overcame a lot then even
an old age just you know, had to go through more stuff and just
his his whole freaking life. Like I don't know if there's has there ever
been like a full length feature Hollywood movie made about this dude yet or what
there were a couple like low, very low budget movies that features that's disappointing.
Like you could make a two hour or two two and a half hour
long just awesome action, I'll act movie about this guy would be a great
mini series. Honestly, that's even better, like a ten part series or
something that Netflix get on that. Yeah, that'd be really cool. All
right, let's get started. So our story starts with Reeves. He was
born into slavery in Crawford County in Arkansas in eighteen thirty eight, and he
was named after his grandfather, Bass Washington. Unfortunately, you know, during
the time, Reeves and his family were enslaved by the Arkansas state legislator WILLIAMS.
Reeve Williams, excuse me as William Reeves. And when Bass was about
eight, William moved to Grayson County, Texas near Sherman. And and this
is a common practice when the what's the word patriarch of the family passes away,
he would probably most likely pass his bonded slaves down to his family members
so they would remain in the family because at the time, unfortunately these people
were kept and thought of his property other than human beings. So Bass took
the name of his master, which was Reeves, I will note that out.
And he was handed down to his son, George R. Reeves,
who was a sheriff and legislator in Texas, and he began living his life
with him. And when the Civil War began, George Reeves, which was
Bass Reeves enslaver, he joined the Confederate Army and he took Bass with him.
And it's not clear exactly how he escaped his enslavement from him. There's
a couple rumors. I heard one where his mom and him were in the
cabin and he stood up for his mother and he was dragged off trying,
you know, going to have punishment. Somebody let him go. The other
thing was the rumor was that he was playing cards with his owner and he
quote unquote beat him up, which I don't think is likely. Did you
guys ever hear anything about the altercations or other different methods I just heard that
nobody really knows how he got how he escaped, right, and it's so
far back in history that I don't think anybody knows really was he was in
his early early teens, I believe too. So after you know, whatever
the reason was, when Bass decided to make an escape for it, he
fled over to Indian Territory, which, if you look on the map,
which was basically Oklahoma roughly, and then he stayed with the native tribes and
he learned their languages and their ways, and there's a quote from him that
it meant a lot to him to earn the trust of these Indians and become
one of them, because he respected them so much. And he stayed there
in that Oklahoma territory or Native territory, excuse me, until he was freed
by the thirteenth Amendment, which happened in eighteen sixty five. So he was
safe there because the law even if you were run away sixty three, sorry,
the Emancipation Proclamation was ratified in sixty three. Well you would know that,
so Oklahoma Territory was an area that the government could not touch with their
laws. So even if you were legal or illegal slave, they could not
bring you back to your master. So that's why he stayed there, and
he was well protected. There were a lot of freed There were a lot
of runaway slaves and stuff like that that went for Indian Territory just because of
that fact. Yeah, I didn't know that previously, and I was very
amazed at that. They're very smart individuals for doing that. Yeah, they
took them in and they all lived together. It's a lot closer than Canada.
Yes, open, Yes, it is. And that is his early
life. And I am going to pass the ball over to Matthew. And
like you said, by eighteen sixty three, Reeves is he's no longer considered
a fugitive because he's freed. And the story that I heard was the second
one you said where he got into an altercation with them and that's that was
pretty much death sentence or at least. Yeah, you're right, I was
gonna that's kind of where I was with it. It's like I kind of
find that hard to believe, like if you do that and actually get away.
So he really had no option at that point but to get out of
there. After he escapes, he's living in Indian Territory. He buys Land
near Van Buren, Arkansas, and it looks like Van Buren is the second
largest city in the Fort Smith, Oklahoma area, and then Fort Smith,
Fort Sill. They're all not too far away from each other, and they're
all Indian Territory forts. So he he's doing pretty well for himself as far
as farming and ranching. He marries a woman named Nellie Jenny, and she's
from Texas, and believe it or not, they have eleven kids. It
was a busy man, yes, a busy woman exactly. Newland Benjamin Robert,
Alice Homer, Edgar Lula, George Sally Harriet, and then Bass Junior
wow So in Fort Smith. In eighteen seventy five, the Federal Western District
Court is moved there. Isaac Parker is appointed on May tenth, and in
the Indian Terry at this time, they have no federal and state jurisdictions,
so it's a great place not only for slaves, but thieves, murders,
and anyone wishing to hide from the law. Parker's earliest act was to appoint
Us Marshal James f I. And this is a hard one, fagin or
a gain us. You guys know, nope, and I do not.
So he is the head of two hundred deputies roughly. So Fagan selects Bass
Reeves for his significant knowledge of the Indian territory, and Bass also learns I
think it was like six or seven different Indian dialects. And I mean I
only know English. So that's really impressive to learn essentially seven languages, especially
when you can't even read or write right exactly. It's just a must have
had a hell of a memory maybe a photograph. Can't read, but maybe
had a photographic memory. Well, when you're so young trying to survive,
I mean, it's important that you learn everything you can. Definitely, so
working alongside Bass, Heck Thomas, Bud Leadbetter and Bud Tilman, and I
think it was Bud Tilman. He would also become pretty legendary in his own
right. Maybe not quite as well known as Bass Roofs, but he had
a lot of arrests. The United States Court at Fort Smith would cover seventy
five thousand square miles. This is the largest in the nation as far as
the miles that deputies would have to cover. A lot of the other ones,
you know, you have some pretty big cities interspersed in between your area,
so you're going to have a lot more guys work in an area.
Usually when Reese went out, he would take with him a wagon a cook,
which is great thinking, it's something I never thought of to bring a
cook with thee a Native American posseman who is you know, he's probably gonna
know anything. Bass doesn't know that this Native American is going to be able
to help him with. And then they would ride to forts through Fort Sill,
which I lived at for I think a year when I was one.
I don't really remember it. It's still pretty cool, Fort Reno and a
place called Anna Darko, And this would be an eight hundred mile round trip
that he would make every couple months, well every so often, but it
took him a couple months to make. Being a former slave, like we
said, Reeves couldn't read and write, it would have been illegal for him
and someone would have had to have taught him. So he would have someone
read him as warrants. Then, like we said, from memory, he
would remember the warrants. I don't think we talked about his stature. He's
well over six foot tall, play about six foot two, and he's got
that lean, wiry cowboy, you know, just all muscle. A lot
of times too, when he couldn't read the warrants, he would find the
guy that he had to serve it to and then he would make that guy
read the warrant to him because his whole thing was, well, if it's
the guy, I got to drop on him, because he's got that piece
of paper in his hand, and I've already got my gun out. If
it's not the guy, he's probably going to direct me to whoever it is.
So it was like a win win. Like Bastards was super intelligent,
I will say, yes he was. And just for the record, people,
he could shoot a rifle ambidextriously. Yeah, he could shoot with both
hands. He could shoot pistols with both hands like his aim was insane.
He could shoot while writing. You didn't really get one over on him too
much. That and he was six foot two in a land of people who
were five foot seven, you know, so big dude, five ft seven,
five foot Matt Reeves is quickly earning a reputation in the Indian territory.
If you're an outlaw, you don't want to see him. And with his
successes in bringing in his man and warrants. He's also killing a lot of
guys, A lot of guys were he had. They're dangerous, so it's
either you or me. Probably didn't have any choice in that. I think
he was credited with Nobody wrote knows the real number, but I think he
was eventually credited by an Oklahoma newspaper at the time with fourteen kills and thirteen
of them were in self defense and the other one was an accident, which
is pretty sad. Yeah, he would. I'm sure he felt terrible for
the especial yeah, which we'll get to well to that story here. Yeah,
but yeah, I mean Indian territory. He's hunting the mo most dangerous
guys, right and fourteen kills, that's it's a lot more than the most
of our super gun slinger outlaws usually have. Oh yeah, usually there you
know, three to five, oh for sure. And out of three thousand
arrests, that's pretty good, you know, percentage wise. I should say,
yeah, he was I don't know, if quoted, I'd say more
of a rumor or reputation of being like the better, better wrangler of the
outlaws, and it was it was neat because he would bring his jail wagon
and he would hide it somewhere full unknowing at all times where it was.
And then when he would come back with his capture, he would throw him
in this wagon and they would be tied together and the end of the chain
would be tied to the axle of the wagon. So at all times,
you know they'd be there's nowhere to go. It was diffrey so cool.
I wonder if he asked any of the guys, hey want to stay in
this you know, essential camper van tonight? Yeah? Right, and I
just walked in themselves. Ever know he was. He was a clever dude,
so you never know. Also, if you look at all his pictures,
he's a pretty shnazzy dresser. It's kind of like the Butch and Sundance
photos. He's got a nice suit. He has a couple of hats.
That's how you know he's fancy. He had his like a dress hat for
pictures, and then he had his his riding hat, I guess. And
don't mistake the mustache man. He had a thick old mustache. Huh oh,
The thing was immaculate, Yes it was. It was a boss.
He was also new to polish his boots to a high shine, and uh
so, I don't know any cowboy that bothering to polish their boots. I
thought that was That was one of the most interesting things I think I read
about him because it says a lot about his character, like he wants to
put literally the best foot forward at all times. Right. Well, yeah,
he was known to where disguises and use aliases, and he's obviously not
the first lawman to do this, with a lot of the Pinkerton's doing the
same thing, but not every sheriff and lawman was not smart, but they're
not going to these lengths wearing disguises and aliases to bring guys in. He
wore two cold pistols and he had his butts forward in. I guess which
is you know, used for quick draw. He's a great shot. He
was a little uh. He didn't brag about himself, just saying, you
know, I'm an okay shot, but we know, you know, if
you kill fourteen guys, you're a pretty good shot. No. Yeah,
he would head out of town and he would leave for a couple months rounding
outlaws. He was paid his fees and rewards for rounding up the outlaws murders
and bootleggers in the Indian Territory, and he made a pretty damn good living
doing it. He would come home, spent some time with his family,
and I think he captured two fugitives in the Red River Valley. He gathered
a posse, set up up a camp twenty eight miles from his wagons,
and the posse they were hiding out at their mother's house, and a Bass
made a plan. He hit his weapons, and he dressed up as a
tramp, and he arrived at the mother's house wearing an old pair of shoe's
dirty clothes, a floppy hat, and the hat it was I don't know
how they know, but they said the hat had three bullet holes in it.
So apparently somewhere along the road the line, someone you know wrote that
and archived. So she invites him in, you know who offers him a
bite to eat. He's a pretty charismatic guy, which seems to be a
quality of some of her the better known guys that we've been working on.
Yeah, and the old lady begins telling Bass about her two outlaw sons,
and you know, Bass is telling her he's an outlaw and he's got these
warrants out for him, and he did this, and so she says she
should join up with them, and she allows Bass to stay the night.
And later on that night, the two sons appear at the house and a
mom goes outside. She's talking with them. The three of them come back
in the house. The sons are kind of feeling them out, making sure
he's, you know, an outlaw, and he's telling them about his criminal
exploits. And then they start telling them about their criminal exploits, and they
all decide to together that it's a good idea to join up. So the
three men slept in the same room and I'm guessing these guys probably you know,
had some drinks. Fast waits for them to fall asleep, and he
handcuffs the pair without waking them. Wow. He wakes him up, walks
the pair back the twenty eight miles back. Imagine having to get arrested and
then having to walk twenty eight miles to the right. You're gonna get arrested
now for the picking up these two guys. He collects five thousand dollars and
plugging that into the inflation calculator. That is one hundred and five thousand dollars
today, and I'm saying I plugged that into the inflation calculator. So if
it's wrong, it's not my fault. Here's your fingers. So his Indian
Territory bounties are pretty lucrative. A lot of of you know, go on
Google images and look up outlaw wanted posters. Most of them are one hundred,
two hundred, maybe five hundred unless you hit like Jesse James and Butch
Cassidy, who would be like in the thousands. For the most part,
a lot of your everyday outlaws they're one hundred to five hundred dollars. So
getting five thousand dollars or one hundred and five thousand dollars in today's money for
two guys, that's that's pretty damn good. Oh yeah, it's a lot,
a lot of money, Okay, And uh, I'm guessing you went
over this justin where he has to arrest his son. Well, I mean
there's some other stuff before that, like Jim Webb and him shooting his cook.
But yeah, I mean, I definitely fiction. So and I know
you'll you'll go over this. But you know, obviously there's an accident.
It was rumored it was an accident from the whole cook standpoint. But then
I was listening to an episode or I think it was something you recommended where
supposedly they got into a fight and he did something to a puppy. Did
we decide which one was something about the dog? I don't know which which
story is true? All I know is, you know, the only people
who said it wasn't an accident were the criminals that were there. Yeah,
everybody else said it was an accident. To be honest with you, Like
when he went to court, I don't I can't remember what year this was,
but yeah, he goes on trial and the one thing that they brought
up, they're like, if he really wanted to kill this guy, like
purposely, why would he try so hard to save the guy's life? You
know, right? It was a pretty it was a pretty vicious neck wound.
And that's like I said, he eventually got him. But it was
just ironic because Isaac Parker's best deputy Marshal, ended up being a guy charged
with murder in front of him and Isaac Parker. He's known as the hanging
judge. But in all honesty, I think the guy saw saw over or
presided over thirteen thousand cases and he only hung seventy nine people and they were
usually the murders and rapists. They were automatic hangings if they were found guilty,
which he was just he was a super fair judge who got a bad
reputation because I think the very first time when he took over as a judge
in that area, he hung like six people his first day, like all
at once, right to make a point, and to make a point,
yeah, he like lined all six of them up at once and was like
listen this hour doing I know, you know, screw around and find out
if you want to. But he was also a very very fair judge.
He didn't really hang that many people, especially for presiding over that many cases.
You know, so and it's just I don't know, really interesting story.
There were other times where he would, you know, go into certain
houses and you know he's trying to arrest people. Like like Matt had mentioned
earlier, he always had disguised as he would he would disguise in self as
this, that or the other. And he shows up and you know he's
arresting a couple of guys and he hands one as you know, the subpoena
or the arrest warrant. He's like, hey, can you read this to
me? And as the guy's reading it, he kind of looks up at
him. And by that time, the other guy was on the other side
of the room inside his house, and they were kind of feeling each other
out because they really didn't trust Bass. He was with another guy of his
as well, so there it was like a two on two situation and one
ended up dying. Bass Reeve shot him. He ended up dying on the
way to jail. He ended up making a clean arrest on the other guy
as well. So he was very clever and he would use that subpoena trick.
It is kind of like a well, he's got something in his hand,
so I know I'm going to get the drop on him, you know.
Like I had mentioned earlier, but there's literally so many stories about this
guy, it's freaking insane. It would be interesting if he knew how to
read and write, where he could make a journal with all of his different
cases. It would be fascinating to read that. Oh absolutely, I can't
imagine it. Just that would be a gold mine. Yeah, be a
pretty awesome story to hear. I know earlier we talked about Bell Star briefly,
but apparently Bell Star, who is also famous for being a female outlaw,
he had a really good relationship with her and her husband, and he
was issued a warrant for her arrest and to save her time from being chained
to these filthy prisoners in the countryside and a really nice iron bar window,
I guess it on wheels. He gave her the heads up, and she
accepted his offer and turned herself in so she didn't have to be in that
situation, which I thought was pretty respectful on both parties. Oh. Absolutely.
You know we had talked earlier about you know, when Bass Reeves had
gotten shot, he had sent for a doctor. Bell Star was a part
of that too, and for her to be an outlaw and respect him that
much, you know, it says a lot about who he was exactly.
I mean, because at that time, you know, outlaws were just out
for themselves. They didn't really you know, most of them didn't really care
about the lawman. Definitely, we don't have to flow around here. So
I watched Teams Stone last night while we're sitting here talking about bass Reeves being
awesome, like he would catch criminals in disguise that was like his m O,
which is super awesome. I'm not sure how well that worked with him
being like a six foot two black guy, you know what I mean?
Yeah, pretty sure, Yeah, but I mean it worked though. You
know, he did this while he was working in federal courts at Fort Smith,
Arkansas. But yeah, and uh in Paris, Texas as well.
So a lot of times he would dress up as a drifter, sometimes cowboys,
sometimes preachers, sometimes a farmer. I've actually heard more stories of him
dressing up as like a drifter or a cowboy more than anything. Yeah,
I would agree with that, and he come across too many stories of the
other two, but which amazes me. Like you said before you go on,
But like, just like you said, he's six foot two, strong
built, I'm sure, really heavy set guy as far as muscles go.
I mean, there's not any way to mistake his identity, especially if you're
on the wrong end of it. Yeah, exactly, And I would just
see that stashing bro in all honesty, he had the closest thing to Tom
Selleck mustache I think I've ever seen. Yes, it was pretty happy him
and wher Him and White herp had like the same mustache. But Tom,
But yeah, there was one time he got a tip that couple of outlaws
where we're holed up in a log cabin. Like I said, he dressed
up as a farmer and some overalls and got his wagon stuck on purpose,
like by a tree stump. And when the outlaws came to help him get
unstuck, that's when he pulled out his guns and got the drop on him
and arrested him. You know, Like, how bad would you feel to
be outlaws? I would be so mad, dude. I could just hear
the one guy, the one time you talked us into helping somebody out.
This is what happens, you know. But definitely one of the high points
of his career was apprehending an outlaw named Bob Dozier. Dozier was known as
pretty much like a jack of all trades when it came to crimes, Like
he wasn't just picking one, he wasn't just robbing banks, He wasn't just
holding up stage coaches. He was rustling cattle and horses and holding up banks,
stores, stage coaches, murder, literally everything, Like there was nothing
this dude wouldn't do. Some mean dude, very mean dude, and Because
of that though, he was unpredictable, so you never knew what his next
move was gonna be or where he was gonna go. So he was super
hard to catch and there were a lot of people that went after him and
couldn't get him. So of course Bass Reeves was like one of those people.
And on December twentieth, eighteen seventy eight, Dozier he was dodging Reeves
for quite a few months, and he ended up tracking him down in the
Cherokee Nation and Dozier would not surrender, so there was a little bit of
a gunfight going on and Reeves ended up killing him. So I mean,
he ended up getting the drop on the guy, but didn't get to bring
him to justice so to speak. You know. And I can't remember off
the top of my head, but if he killed somebody while he was trying
to retain them, did he get paid for that or not? Absolutely not,
because I think he would lose money and then he would have to he
would have to bury them out of his own pocket, wouldn't he. Yeah,
that was one of the kickers of why he is known for arresting so
many people as opposed to killing them. So yeah, I wouldn't want to
be paid up to bury my enemy. Here's a deal, man, I'm
getting a shovel. I'm not there's no gravestone. I got to grab a
couple of twigs off the branches, make a little cross, you know.
But I'm just digging a hole, man and throwing them in there, because
I'm not paying for that right away. I don't understand. I read the
desire was a farm a successful farmer before this, Yeah, and choose to
be an outlaw? I know, Like what makes you choose that? Like,
I don't know what I'm a guessing. Lack of money. I mean,
that's what kind of makes the world go around. That's true. But
at the end of the day, like farmers back then, they didn't really
require all that much money because most of everything you did yourself, you know.
But true, this says he was pretty successful at it so well,
I just having a bit of land and acres and cows, wanted to deliver
that success. Crazy lifestyle, I guess. I don't know. Like with
all the shootouts that he got into, there was one. There's an article
in a nineteen oh six newspaper. It was an interview with Bass Reeves and
This was just about four years before he died in eighteen eighty four. I
guess was the closest that he actually came to losing his life in a gunfight.
And he never really specified when. But he was writing the Seminal Whiskey
Trail, and he was looking for four guys, two white guys and two
black guys. All four of them had warrants. And there were these three
brothers named Brunter who basically interrupted him while he was trying to serve these warrants.
These three brothers had been accused of stealing horses, robbery, and there
were a bunch of unsolved murders in the Indian Territory that they were suspected of
committing. So the Brunners ended up getting the drop on Reeves. They had
their guns pointed at him, and they ordered him to get off of his
horse and to keep his hands away from his guns and everything. Reeves being
Bass Reeves calm, cool, collective, and he showed the brothers the warrants
for their arrest and asked them what day of the month it was, so
that he could make a record for the government. And the hell laws thought,
they're like, man, this dude is crazy. So they told Reeves
and this is a this is a direct quote. You were just ready to
turn in now they were laughing. They basically let their guard down and bass
Reeves whips out his colt killed two of the brothers like super quick, and
while he was at in the act of shooting those first two brothers, he
grabbed the gun barrel of the third outlaw, the third brother, and he
shot I think three times, and they just kind of they missed. So
Reeves hit the third brother in the head with his revolver and killed him.
And like Julia just said, if you don't bring in the outlaws, you
don't collect any money. So there's no But he was mad too, because
you know, he didn't want to kill him. But yeah, at the
end of the day, though, you got three fewer bad guys who were
killing people in the Indian territory. So, I mean, bass Reeves wasn't
wasn't too mad about it, but he was pretty easiest, like, well,
you know, I'm getting paid today, you know. Yeah, there
was a lot that happened in eighteen eighty four. Actually there was him and
another law man from Choctaw Nation, a guy named Charles wild Floor, they
arrested a horse thief from Texas named Robert Landers, and they rested him in
Fort Smith and then one of the best gunfights happened. And this is the
full Jim Webb story. Jim Webb was he was a foreman, and he
was a foreman on the Washington mcclish ranch in the Chocsaw Nation. He was
like him and Reeves were like nemesis, like they were each other's arch nemesis.
So what happens is a black preacher who owns a small farm adjacent to
this ranch. He had set this fire to kind of burn. You know
some we do. Honestly, we do this around here all the time.
I'm sure Matt Yep control burns. Yeah, it's control burns. If a
lot of farmers do this. Well, he got out of control and the
fire spread onto the Washington mcclish ranch. Webb goes over there and he just
starts yelling at this preacher, you know, him being a black preacher like
Webb was a very well known super racist dude. So that just topped it
off right there. So even after yelling at the dude, Jim Webb still
wasn't happy. So he ended up shooting the guy to death. So Webb
was a bad, bad guy. Anybody can look him up. He was,
he was, definitely, but he had killed eleven men while he was
in the Brausos River region around Texas. He had no problems with that.
Now Reeves did arrest Webb with no problems whatsoever. And when his friends raised
a hundred thousand dollars to bail him out of jail, Wow, he jumped
his bond. That's a lot of money today. I can't imagine what it
would be like in nineteen eighty four. That's exactly what I thought too,
because I was like, there's got to be I was like, this is
the conversion, isn't right? Like this has got to be in today's money,
And they're like, no, I think I've just realized I didn't need
rich friends. Yeah, yeah, apparently, And what I do. I'd
been dying in jail. I think what happened was they probably went out and
robbed and killed a bunch of people and probably just stole the money more than
likely, but oh probably. Yeah. And June Reeves found him again,
and he found him at Bywater's store and is in the foothills of Arbuckle Mountains,
of the Arbuckle Mountains. Webb says, I'm not going to surrender this
time. So the two men had a running gunfight. It's like a both
fight with guns. Yeah. Well, this is where Reeves got the He
got shot through the top of his hat, bullet barely missed him. And
then Webb shot one of the buttons off of his jacket, barely missed him.
Reeves got off of his horse and he took out his Winchester rifle and
he shot Webb twice from about a quarter mile away. Wow. Yeah,
And even though that sounds unbelievable, one of the best parts is that several
witnesses, including the owner of the store, all corroborated this story like they're
the ones who told this story, not Bass Reeves. So that's pretty awesome
in my book personally, as two bullets were a quarter inch apart in his
chest, so two shots almost the same exact spot. How good you have
to be? Man's amazing. It really is, though, And I mean
it's funny because you always hear there were a bunch of stories I heard.
I think it was on a documentary or I read them somewhere where Bass Reeves
when he would go to Indian Territory. They would always have contests for like
turkey and you know, food and stuff like that. They would hang the
turkey upside down and you had to ride on your horse and shoot the turkey,
and whoever did it got the turkey. Reeves on more than one occasion,
would participate in these events and he wouldn't even shoot the body. He
literally shoot the head off the turkey. And so it got to the point
where people were like, he was so good with a rifle, he was
ambidextrious, so good with pistols. They finally are like, you're not allowed
to come player games anymore, dude, because I was just gonna say,
mc reeves, go nest. It's like you're killing the fun for everybody.
Man. You know, I grew up in Detroit, and you'd think i'd
be familiar with guns from that, But I moved to Minnesota and I started
going to gun class and all that fun stuff, just because uneducated person needs
to educate themselves about guns, in my opinion, But I went and to
have a distance between that, like consistently and that good is so impressive considering
I'm not a great shot. I'm still practicing, but It's amazing to hear
stuff like that makes me want to like be just like Reeves pretty much.
Yeah, you probably get that whole like you probably got a cute little hat
you know that you go out there and wear too, Julie, don't you.
I don't actually throw a little fake spurs on your nikes. No,
if I ever get good like Grieves, I will, okay, changing,
Yeah, yeah, she puts put spurs on her crocks. You know what.
I stopped wearing crocs three years ago. Spurs on your rugs. I
don't have ugs, but thank you. I appreciate your yeah, man.
So it was it was stuff like this that made Reeves super well known and
super famous and one of the best Deputy US Marshals in the Indian Territory.
To be honesty, he more than likely was the best. And this is
after reconstruction, Okay, So it was it was pretty rare to find any
kind of like black federal policeman anywhere, but the Indian Territory was full of
them for obvious reasons, like we had talked about earlier, which is so
smart. Honestly, yes, very smart. They just had a bone to
pick, and I tell you what they thought they were some great marshals,
you know what I mean great? There were, I guess a number.
Wise, I saw that they were at least fifty that served in the Indian
territory. So he was definitely not the only one. But let's be honest,
he was. He was the best. And because white or black,
that didn't matter, he was still one of the best. Part of that
was because he was super strong, lean, very intelligent, six foot two,
one hundred and eighty pounds, amazing with any kind of weapon. You
can't compete with that, you know what I mean. There are stories of
him beating up two guys, you know, at the same time, you
know, and this is what he just beat up to. A couple dudes,
you know. And like I said, he's just great with his weapons.
And his favorite one was his Winchester rifle. And of course he had
three revolvers, two of which would be facing but forward in his belt so
he could reach him easier. And like I said, again, there were
more than one newspaper that said during his career that he killed fourteen outlaws.
A lot of people suggest that number is a lot higher. There's people who
suggest it's a lot lower. Do we have a total of how many rests
he made or how many warrants he collected, About three thousand. Yeah,
it seems to be the number out of that. Like, that's not bad
considering he didn't get paid for fourteen of them exactly. And I think that
honestly had a lot to do with the amount of arrest compared to the outlaws
that he killed. Huge penis. Oh, I'm sure he did. Yeah,
number number four, good number four. Oh my god. Yeah,
I mean seen the look on my face, dude. On one occasion,
he uh brought in seventeen horse thieves at once in Comanche County, which is
right, uh, right near Fort Sill, which the fort's still there,
man, still operates army. It's army base. I lived there for a
year. My dad was in the army. Nice. Yeah, Like I
said, Man, a lot of people from Texas would venture because it's not
that far, and you know, they would go and steal horses from a
lot of the Indian residents and stuff like that. Yeah. April eighth,
eighteen eighty four is one of the days. And that's kind of odd.
In question, he was on a trip in the Chocsaw Nation. This is
when Reeves shot and killed his cook, William Leech, who was also a
black guy, And we had talked about this a little bit earlier. There
were stories about it being the dog. There were stories about them arguing.
This one in particular tells about they were camped right there by near the Canadian
River and I guess him and Leech had an argument. Yeah, he supposedly
and accidentally, which I don't see Reeves as purposely doing that to an innocent
person. I really, yeah. I don't think he would shoot someone just
because he's mad at them. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, with everything that
we've heard so far, I have a hard time believing this was done on
purpose. Yeah. One of the most popular stories is that lee Each had
poured hot grease down the throat of a puppy that Reeves had had with him.
That's when Reeves shot the cook. But like I said, there's so
many different accounts, because here's a deal. The only people the posse and
then the guys that they had with them that they were, you know,
taken in for bounties. The outlaws that were with them say that he murdered
him. But they got into an argument, and everybody brought up the dog.
The other guys in the posse are like, no, it was that
it was an accident. Dude, Like, he didn't really do it on
purpose. So we don't know exactly what happened. But like, character wise,
I just don't see it. Man, I don't see him doing that
on purpose. But oh, so when he was he was arrested, Well,
the murderer wasn't It was kind of cleared for a little bit because it
happened under one judge, wasn't it. Yeah, and then a judge turned
over and then yeah, they investigated it and arrested him, and then he
went into one of the most what was it called hell on Earth for the
jails, which that jail in itself, I just can't even put into words
how that was. But it was a woman. She made a comment about
how there was only two open windows that was facing the street. It was
directly below the judge's office or the courtroom, and there was barely any light
because it was just the light coming from the windows. There was no drafts,
there was no air movement, so everything was very pungent. They only
had one bucket pur cell and the guards would wet the stones to try to
clear the air. But however, it's hot, humid, so it just
made everything stink, It made everything miserable. It was just hell on earth
and everybody hated it. And he was there for quite some time hill he
was brought out of the jail I think. I think after a couple of
weeks or maybe a couple of months he was in there, one of the
judges ordered him out and had his trial. Ye. So unfortunately he was
with other people that he actually brought in. So if you can imagine his
life was already at risk as it was, and in being in that environment
of disease and the stench, like, can you imagine how that was in
Texas? Yeah, probably pretty horrible. I'm gonna ask Fort Smith Jail.
It only had two basically two rooms in that bottom and it was a where
they held Confederate prisoners during the Civil War. But there's only two basically big
cells. Over one hundred guys in both those cells. They're not split up
at all as to violent crime or you know, any kind of different crime.
Black, white, right, Indian, they're all. And I heard
that they would put the pot of you know, bathroom material in the fireplace.
So the yeah, the stench can rise through the fireplace, which they
often said they would they could smell it upstairs in the courtrooms, so they
would pour withood shavings on the floor. You have been to smell a little.
Yeah, that's so horrible, man, I tell you what. Though,
like a eighteen eighty seven that he did go on trial for killing the
killing of the cook. In an ironic twist of events, his judge was
Isaac Parker, who he worked for. Yeah, and literally like this was
his best deputy, you know what I mean, Yeah, I gotta get
this guy out. Yeah, unbelievable. It sounds like a mostly all white
jury still acquitted him almost immediately. Parker's like, okay, we're good.
Like here, I need you to serve these warrants for me. Get back
to work, dude. But I mean Isaac Parker, like everybody refers to
him as a hanging judge. I think he tried God, I can't even
remember how many. I think fourteen thousand cases and he only I think that's
what you said, yeah, seventeen people. So he was really a hanging
judge. He was a very fair judge too, though, but a very
letter of the law kind of yes, very straight arrow yeah. He ended
up getting acquitted, found innocent, so he gets released, gets back to
work. By eighteen ninety, Reeves arrested a very notorious outlaw and he was
a seminal outlaw named green Leaf. He had been on the run for eighteen
years and had evaded capture, and he had murdered seven people. Reeves tracked
him down, got to him man. In that same year, again,
Reeves went after the famous Cherokee outlaw, ned Christie Reeves and his posse.
They they burned own that dude's house and he still ended up getting away.
I'm not really sure what became them to be honest, great head of hair.
Diddy pictures of them. I think that was his picture I saw.
Oh that's great. I'm gonna have to that's a random effect of the name.
I think Matt's standing out or something, because this kind of sound like
a little like envy there in your voice. Man, it's the hats little
changing out. I'm pretty good so far, I'm great, great, great.
Yeah, he took shots at me and now he's taking shots at you.
Matt going on over there justin I don't know. I I've been I've
been driving back and forth feisty. Well, today was the first day of
snowed in Indiana, so I'm not really happy about that. You know.
I think we got ours yesterday. Oh so mad Oh yeah, we just
got ours today too. But it's not like laying or anything. Yeah,
it didn't stick around very long, but yeah. And in eighteen ninety three,
Reeves ends up getting transferred to the East Texas Federal Court at Paris,
Texas. He was stationed at Calvin in the Choctaw Nation. He took his
prisoners to the Federal commissioner at Paul's Valley in the Chocsaw Nation. While he
was there, he broke up the Tom Story Gang. And they were a
gang of horse thieves that operated all along the Red River Valley right there around
Texas, Oklahoma area. And what year was this justin I can't remember for
sure the year that he broke up the gang. I know he got his
eighteen eighty nine, eighteen eighty eighty, Yeah, well he is. He's
assigned to Paris, Texas in eighteen eighty nine. Oh okay, okay,
all right, I had my dates messed up there and corrections corner. No,
hey, Julie was right, No, he was right. I'm with
it. No, this is this was Mely was right. The recording doesn't
count. My thought. My thinking was it was the Emancipation Proclamation, but
that wouldn't have affected the Indian territories. It only would have affected states under
Union control. Okay. So when she said eighteen sixty five, she was
correct, Okay, and I was wrong. I was wrong, Thank you.
I appreciate that. Oh man um, I will say this. In
eighteen ninety six Bass's first wife died. That was a pretty big loss for
him. Yeah. Her name was Nellie, and they had eleven children.
Yeah. Yeah, she was a looker too. Yeah, she was very
beautiful woman. She was. And even though a lot of people were like,
well, how bad could it have been, he was always he was
always gone, you know. But it's like, dude, still a guy's
wife. And I would imagine after eleven children and being together that long that
they would have some type of bond. Oh of course. Now yeah sure.
But also this year is a huge thing, and that was the plus
e versus Ferguson. This was a Supreme Court decision, and this upheld the
constitutionality of racial segregation under the Separate but Equal Doctrine and what this meant for
Bass Reeves is even though he was a leader in his community, he was
one of the best law enforcement officers at the Wild West had ever seen,
hands down, it still meant that he could not go into his own town
and sit in a restaurant with white people and eat, or go to a
saloon with white people and eat. And for everything that he did, I
think that is just well him being you know, as we've read and mentioned
in the past, he was pretty rare as a black ranger, and especially
now in his life, especially with this law passing, he would feel isolated
and singled out, wouldn't he. Oh yeah, And this just added to
it now, right, And I mean the people, I mean, for
the most part, dude, even the outlaws respected this guy, you know
what I mean. And obviously Isaac Parker loved Reeves, you know, because
he was the best. You know, he's the best marshal he had,
so you know, it was just it was kind of a not even kind
of it was a huge slap in the face. And that part kind of
really upset me, just because of his stature and his reputation. And then
this, you know, but the next year, Reeves ended up getting transferred
to the Muskogee Federal Court in Indian Territory, and a few years later,
in nineteen hundred, bass Reeves remarries Mary's woman named Winnie Sumter. I didn't
really, I'll be honest. I didn't look too much information into her.
I'm just gonna throw that out there because there's enough going on with bass Reeves
all the time, you know, so it's like all right in nineteen oh
two is one of the hardest parts of bass Reeves's life. In nineteen oh
okay, early nineteen hundred's his son Benny. All Right. Benny had walked
in on his wife cheating on him a couple of times. He went to
his dad and says, well, you know what should I do about it?
Bass Reeves told him, you know what, I would have shot that
dude, and you know, gave her a good beating. In nineteen oh
two, Benny walks in on her doing it again, and he ends up
beating the dude up and killing her. So he has worn out for domestic
murder and Muskegee Muskogee, Yeah, Muscogee. God, I can't believe I
pronounced that wrong. So, I mean, the dude's got to go after
his own son at you know, and he, if I remember correctly,
he took that warrant. I don't think they wanted him to be the one
to serve it, but he was like, no, I'm going to do
it. You know, it's my kid. And obviously, with bass Reeves's
knowledge and experience, it really you know, it didn't take him too long
to find the kid. You know, he brought in his kid and he
ended up getting convicted and he got sent to Leavenworth. I can't remember exactly
what his sentence was. I think he did what like eighteen years or twelve
years. I think he did eleven and got off for good behavior and just
lived like a normal life after that. Yeah, yeah, I remember that
part. So yeah, I'm moving forward in uh nineteen oh seven, and
he's still doing his police work. I mean, the dude talking to the
dude is so old, but he was still so awesome, you know what
I mean. Like he worked until Oklahoma achieved the statehood in nineteen oh seven,
and that's when he became a city policeman for Muscogee and that was the
only thing he knew and that was what he was good at. But he
didn't really last too long, because on January twelfth, nineteen ten, he
died of what was known at the time as Bright's disease, which is also
a kidney disease or kidney failure. Yeah, you know, I don't think
it'd be a good obviously, no, no way is a good way to
go. But hopefully he died peacely in his bed as opposed to getting shot
off of his horse or something. Right, making it to seventy one in
that, you know at that time you're doing pretty good, yeah, I
would say, and especially in his line of work, right, yeah,
right, So I wonder what the average age was for a deputy in Indian
Territory. Yeah, honestly I'm curious as to that too. For how many
days they would last on the jocket? A day three? Yeah, you
have a life expectancy of three days. Exactly as your listeners just found out
there was he led a crazy, interesting, very productive life. But yeah,
what did what did you guys think? I found out that he was
a great uncle of Paul L. Brady, who became the first black man
appointed as a federal administrative law judge in nineteen seventy two, and apparently he
has a great great great grandson in the NHL, and is his name is
Ryan Reeves yep, which his last name is spelled R E A V S.
Which I'm guessing is just a family changed to the name. They live
in Canada now, so I think it pay got changed. Yeah, I
don't know. Another I don't think in my personal opinion, I don't think
this is true. But there's a rumor a historian by the name of Art
Bruton so that Reeves was the inspiration for the character of the Lone Ranger.
I don't know if that's true, but it's food for thought. He said
that his argument was based on the sheer number of people Reeves arrested without taking
any serious injury, coupled with the fact that many of these arrested were incarcerated
in the Detroit House of Correction in the same city where the Lone Ranger radio
plays were broadcasting. So I don't know if that's true, but it's interesting
to think about. There were some other similarities, like what was the Lone
Ranger's sidekick, Tonto Tanto? So bass Reeves always had a Native American with
him. The black mask that the Lone Ranger wore. I guess was kind
of like a symbolic thing, not only because bass Reeves was black, but
because he also wore disguises all the time to try to catch people. And
then the horse Lone Ranger had a white horse and bass Reefs had like a
light gray one which would look white from a distance. So I mean they
never, like said for sure, but the similarities are definitely there. I
mean there's an argument for it. Yeah, And I just thought it was
cool. I just I would have never made the connection, but I thought
it was pretty interesting to say the least. Oh for sure. Yeah,
definitely. And in nineteen ninety two he was inducted into the Hall of Great
Westerners and the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum, which I think is a
good privilege for him. Yeah, definitely. I don't know if that's the
right word, but I think it's a great honor for him. I know
they made a big old brownze statue of them too. I can't remember the
year right off top of my head, but I don't know. I don't
think people realize like he was honored in twenty twelve. Okay, he was.
He was pretty highly regarded in his time, and then because of people
like wyat Been, Jesse James and all the number one too famous lawmen or
outlaws, whatever the case was. I think for a time period, you
know, unless you were from that region. I mean, I knew about
Bass Reeves and I'm into this stuff, but I never really like looked into
them. You know. It's it's funny because I think the literature that schools
used to teach history is severely lacking, and I think most of it has
to do with who they want to honor, who they want to showcase,
and who's important. And depending on what area you're from, you're not going
to know about certain people. And I think now that people are have access
to the internet, you know, more than they used to twenty thirty years
ago. I think it's really important and exciting because we all have the knowledge
at our fingertips to learn about these people who helped shaped the West and law.
And it's just it's fascinating because as a kid, I didn't have any
access to this unless somebody knew who he was at EPP go to the library.
You know, it's just so so cool. Yeah, how many black
cowboys did we lose their story to Jim Crow era, which is so sad.
And I think region has a lot to do with it too, you
know what I mean, Because there's people probably you know, from this region
around Oklahoma and Texas who grew up here in stories about this as opposed to
me in northern Indiana, where all we heard about was the mafia from Chicago
and John Dillinger and stuff like that. So I think region does being a
factory a little bit. I just it's it's just so cool to be able
to dig up disinformation and get the truth and show others and tell people about
it. It's just learning about him was an honor to be honest. Yeah,
definitely. I this is a hard statement. It's not really a hard
statement. It's a it's going to be hard to find somebody to do an
episode about that is going to be single handedly more amazing than Bass Reeves.
Like, it's gonna be hard. It's gonna be hard to top this guy
because and I encourage everybody to go watch some documentaries, read some books.
There's plenty of books out about this guy where they get into way more detail.
But it's gonna be hard to top, hard to top Bass Reeves Man,
definitely. Yeah, So what did you think Matt. I think he's
an incredible person. And I had read the little blurbs about him in like
the Time Life History of the True West books. You know, he's always
in there, but never knew three thousand arrests come on. Yeah, and
never never got a shot. I mean he came close several times, but
never actual taking a bullet wound. I had heard he got shot in the
leg. I couldn't believe it. Oh did he Yeah, because that's where
he met. Didn't Bell Star help him with his life? Yeah? But
still though, I mean, arresting three thousand dangerous outlaws in Indian Territory.
There were there were times like I'm pretty sure when dudes found out that Bass
Reefs was coming for him, he was just, Oh, I'm just gonna
go to the courthouse. You know, he's going to deal with this.
And then Fort Smith's reputation was so bad that that was, you know,
one of the things people were like, I'm not going to Fort Smith,
so I'm going to shoot out. Yeah yeah, Like suicide by Cowboy,
Yeah yeah, Cowboy. You know it's from escaping and enslavement, fleeing for
his life, growing up and learning the Indian ways and becoming a respected cowboy,
being African American and having two wives eleven children, and having all of
those arrests, and going through what he went through when the laws were changing
about segregation. It just and having to arrest his own son for murder,
you know. Yeah, and not even living long enough to have his son
come out and know that he didn't die in jail. Like you know,
as a father, he probably lived his dying days thinking about his son constantly.
Oh for sure. He just lives such an amazing life. And it's
just I have a lot of respect for him. He seemed like a great
man. Yeah, like a real life superhero to be honest with you.
Yeah, like the Black Clark Count. Yeah, like if we told all
the stories on this episode, it'd be like six hours long. It's un
a real miniseries. Yeah, honestly, there could be. There should be
a podcast dedicated to basster use. Yeah, and they would have content for
days. But anyway, Yeah, so I guess I won't be here on
the next episode. So either Julian Matter flying solo or Mike's gonna step in
for me. I'm gonna get that Patreon or have a guest. You might
have a guest toast. Yeah, and for those things. We all love
Mike Mike first. I would definitely ask Mike first. I think he'd be
down, but you got to come at him with a good episode. I
don't know that's true. Um, just what we're wrapping things up. We're
on Facebook, Twitter, not or not Twitter, excuse me, I'm on
Instagram. So on Facebook Instagram ignore Twitter accounts. Yeah, he's an imposters.
Yeah. We're also on Patreon and I we just again want to say
thank you for sticking with us after the hiatus and we're really happy to be
back. And I also wanted to say thank you to Justin for kind of
taking a lead and showing us the ropes and kind of keeping us in line.
He's he's a great um, a great person to work with, So
thank you. Yeah, it's not possible without him. I just do the
editing. Man. It's which. Don't get me wrong, Well, I
think I think you're selling yourself short. You're You're a great person to work
with, So we just I just wanted to say thank you. I appreciate
that I do, Don't get me wrong. I will enjoy the next episode
off. But I'm also going to be working on the Patreon content. So
that's what I'm going to be doing with my with my episode off, I'm
going to be uploading a huge, huge Jesse James episode. I got to
go through it, patch it all together and kind of who have never listened
to his or his or his gosh, why am I stuttering so bad?
For those who haven't listened to his podcast Mysterious Circumstances, highly highly recommend this
Jesse James episode. This is what like made me fall into Justin's trap,
like this was this was it. It's funny because I actually got a review
like a month ago or something on on MC and it said I found this
podcast because of Blood and Dust and I'm like, first time ever, that's
awesome. I know we came this one, don't say yet we're not.
It's like I always tell people are thing and yet it's like, choose wisely
if you go to MC, because I got a whole bunch of different kinds
of stuff on there. But but yeah, oh you go to MC and
you'll get lost, like you won't resurface for years. And Jesse James like
just for those of you on Patreon and you're like, oh, I haven't
heard the Jesse James one yet. Just wait for it to be on Patreon
because it'll be ad free. It's all gonna be patched together, re edited,
and I'm even gonna throw in the extra couple episodes about his death and
you know some of the circumstances around that, the conspiracy behind it and stuff.
But yeah, yeah, so, I mean it's gonna all put into
one episode. I'll be honest with you, I don't know how long that
one episode is gonna be, so I don't know. Maybe I'll split it
up into two, like his life and then his death or something. But
man created the pause button on your listening devices, So I mean that's very
true. You'll be fine, very true. All right, Well, I
suppose Kyle Pokes. I don't know why I thought of Matt when I said
that word, because it's something Matt would say. Hey, y'all post before
we go, though, Matt, where's your where's your next job? Where's
your fun historical job site at next Somerset, Pennsylvania? What are you going
to be doing there? I am chicking a eighteen twenty six log cabin eighteen
twenty to require photos. Thank you, Wow and it's it's not too far
from the Flight ninety three memorial. Oh that's that's cool, man, that
would be something. There's a new rule any job you go to you need
to post a year end photos please thank you, and bring a metal detector.
And for those of you listeners who are not in the group, Matt
posts these pictures from all of his work sites that he goes to, and
he actually did take a metal detector to one of them like a month ago
and found some cool stuff. Posted some pictures in the Facebook group. Yeah,
some really cool stuff. If there was a seventeen twenty six Britannica English
penny, h two buttons, one French and one English, a lot of
shoes and uh something inappropriate magazines, Yeah there was there. There was some
some old nudy. How much is that penny worth? I don't think I
looked up like a nice new one or yeah a new one and a one
in mint shape was like one hundred and twenty five dollars. So frame it,
just frame it and keep it. Do you get to keep the items
that you find or do you have to give them to the people hiring you
to do the job or the people who own the property. How does that
work. I'm not gonna say job like chaminate them, Julie. If it
would have been something of great value, we would have gave it to the
landowner. Well, here's the deal. If the landowner hasn't gone out too,
then that's their own fault. So them, Yeah, came on them.
That place was neat too, because there was a Civil War camp in
eighteen sixty one there. That's awesome. I didn't see photos of that camp
in the area. I mean, come on, it's just woods. It's
trees. I can go out back and take pictures of trees and tell you
to Civil War Justin's. That would be great, or that would be really
great. Yeah. I got to keep a clean Justin's and that's yeah.
That's what people don't realize when they go to MC. It's like, wow,
man, this guy's got one foul mile. It's like yeah, yeah,
yeah, do you sometimes and even kiss this is mama with that.
Mama used to my Momaill also used to slap it too whenever I back talk.
So there's a with rings on. All right, Well, thank you
guys, yeah, all right, well, thank you guys for listening.
We appreciate it. Say you guys taking this journey. Yeah, for sure,
see you guys later. Yeah, there it is. Oh my god,
where are you born? Alabama? Yeah, m hm hm an dear
man and h