Mac Not to sound creepy, not to be crass, but this just came
to my head the other day. What is the first movie that you saw
it? Nuditaian and can remember? What were you doing that this came to
mind? Might ask you worry about me? Don't ask personal questions. It's
one of two movies. I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure that it was
Titanic in Kate Winsless one titty, one nipple. I don't think we saw
both in that. If it wasn't that it was Friday the thirteenth, would
you see a couple of sets of breasts in that movie? Which was probably
too early for me to watch that movie? But what are you gonna do?
And if it wasn't those two things, I think I watched those two
things before Woodstock ninety nine. But then Woodstock ninety nine had tits galore,
So one of those three things, for sure was the first breasts I saw
on a screen. Goo, Yes, was the first titty you saw?
Okay? So the first one I remember is Fast Times at Ridgemont High Phoebe
Kates, So you watched that before you watched Titanic, So I'm pretty sure
that I saw that before Titanic, Okay, which is funny because I saw
that with my cousins, and I think my dad was in the room and
he didn't say anything about, you know, her blowing the carrot or anything.
Sure, and you mentioned Friday the thirteenth. I think my first might
be from Halloween. Oh I want now, I'm wondering if I saw Halloween
before I saw Friday thirteenth. I don't know. I think I may have
seen the edited Halloween before I saw the unedited Friday thirteenth. But I think
I saw because Friday the thirteenth. I've said it a couple of times here
on here. When I was a kid, I wanted to watch Scream.
So my father, as sort of as a litmus test, said, listen,
if you can handle Fire the thirteenth, you can watch Scream. So
he showed me Friday thirteenth, which had breacists, and I was good.
I was all set ready to rock. When I was a kid, I
wanted to smoke a cigar. My father said, no, you're gonna have
these cigarettes. First one three years three, King of Queen and Miry Street
entertainer Goo and I'm min and we are the Mac and Goop program we bring
You Friendship and today Speed Force. Yeah, today we're talking about the Flash,
that's right, the long awaited, much anticipated The Flash, which I
think has been in development now for what six years? Five years? Ever
since Jostice League. That was yeah, pretty sure. Yeah, um,
this is what we were pretty much promised after that. And uh, I
think what we ended up here with five six years later is a far cry
from what they probably set out to do five six years ago. Though that's
not a bad thing. I don't know if it's a good thing either,
and we can get into that too, but yeah, this is the ultimately
Um now, I we still don't really have clarity on this, but for
lack of clarity's sake, let's call this the last movie in what was the
DCU, the universe that started with twenty thirteen A Man of Steel. So
this is the fifteenth entry into that universe. Fourteen movies. One show,
of course, Peacemaker. The one that we saw most recent to this in
that universe would be Fury of the Gods, which we saw in March,
which we both thought was okay, it was fine, Well it should have
been better, so better. Yeah, Yeah, And that's sort of the
common theme with this whole entire universe goo. I would say this this universe
is mercifully coming to a close after ten messy years. However, you could
argue that it finishes on somewhat of a high note here. Yeah, I
think it finishes on definitely in its handful of best movies, within its handful
of best movies. Yeah, a mount rushmore DCU movie. I think it
worse. You could argue it's fifth, but to me it's probably at least
number four. The Flash is a rated PG thirteen action adventure, fantasy and
sci fi with a runtime of one hundred and forty four minutes, so it's
on the longer side, but the pacing is such that you don't really feel
like it's a two and a half hour movie. I did feel it a
smidge at the end of the second act heading into the third act, that's
when it did get a bit long. And when it comes to being rated
PG thirteen, they much like Guarding too. The Galaxy Volume three do push
the PG thirteen. Yeah, they get away with a couple of things in
here, that's sure, A couple a couple of cuss words in here.
Go the ratings. This is very interesting and we are hoarding before the full
audience score. I'm gonna turn my headphones off because once again I don't dare
on roddy ts. This has seventy two percent from the critics. That's out
of one hundred and forty three critic reviews. That would be fifth best behind
Peacemaker, Wonder Woman, The Suicide Squad, and Birds of Prey. Currently,
the audience score GOO now, this is less than one hundred audience reviews,
so I don't even know why the numbers up there, but it's at
ninety five percent, which I think is understandable. It probably will drop a
little bit, but I think this is gonna end up being around ninety audience
score wise on Metacritic Goo a sixty one from thirty six critic reviews. That's
also fifth behind those same four properties, just ordered differently, Wonder Woman,
The Suicide Squad, Shazam, and Peacemaker. So you can shoot on Roddy
T's all you want. But I think we can take away from that coup
is definitively Tom Cruise, James Gunn, You're all big fat liars. This
is nowhere even remotely close to the greatest comic book movie of all time.
It's not even the best DC colic book movie of all time. It's not
even the best DCU comic book movie of all time. So I still would
like to see Tom Cruise's Letterbox D to see what else he likes. But
for James Gunn, the stuff in this movie does kind of mesh with the
things that he likes or that he talks about. Yeah, this movie's fun
it's funny, and it does feel like, even though he probably had little
to do with this movie because he came on so late in the process,
it does feel like it has a little bit of a James gun fingerprint on
it. It does try and go outside the line on some jokes, and
even in the opening act with that action sequence, it felt very gunny.
And if you know what I'm talking about, we'll talk about that and spoilers.
But Gunn tweeted out earlier that he saw the first cut for this a
year ago before he was the head of you know, the creative team.
So I mean it's probably gone through a bunch of reshoots and you know,
recuts, but I don't think he had that much to do with it.
No, I don't think he did either. But again, it's sort of
a for better or for worse from going back to twenty seventeen twenty eighteen,
because I feel like, once you walked away and had a few hours a
day to live and sit with this movie, you almost feel like it didn't
do enough right and probably in part because they're saving some cool stuff or stuff
that would have been in play here for what Gun's gonna do. I would
say that what hurt it for me would be the Internet knew every secret.
Yeah that's true, but also like quote unquote, secrets don't really have anything.
So what that would have done for me is maybe I would have had
like a bigger blown away first feeling about the movie. Yeah, and then
you know, you take it, you know, day or two when you
think about it, you say, Okay, that wasn't that great. But
it did take away a couple moments that if I didn't know about, I
would have made a real mess in the theater. Her there's a moment in
this movie that if if it was unbeknownst to us, yes, you would
have passed out from the come, no doubt about it. I would have
been So would have been one of those moments where you finished, you just
roll over and fall asleep and I would have to wake yet I would have
been like that meme of like the dehydrated body good. This movie is written
by Christina Hodson and Joe by Harold. Christina Hodson, you may know she
wrote Bumblebee and Birds of Prey, so they brought her back for a second
DC property Goose. She's also writing Fast X Part two. She's very interesting
and is uh signed on to be the writer from Marge Bob's Pirates of the
Caribbean movie. And additionally she was the writer on the Scrapped Back Girl movie.
So what an up and down ride she's had, so you know,
would be sick as if Fast X Part two was Fast X Part de and
the whole movie was just in French out of nowhere. Joe by Harold you
may know from King Arthur Legend of the Sword, Talk to you Later,
Oben. He also wrote Army of the Dead and Obi Wan Kenobi upcoming.
He's got my hero Academia. So coming into this movie, I thought that
the writing was gonna be the weak point of the movie, and I think
I can confidently say it wasn't. The overarching story. Yeah, I have
an issue with but I think that was sort of out of their hands.
The writing in this movie, the humor and the character to character interactions,
I actually thought might have been the best part of the movie. Yeah,
and telling Barry's story, telling, you know, losing his mother, having
to deal with that grief multiple times. I think what they do in this
movie with that is great. And they also handle all of those other characters
that they introduced into this movie extremely well. Yeah, I agree. Because
this movie was directed by Andy Machette the Mousquetti. I don't know how you
want to say it there, but he is the director from Mama It and
It Chapter two upcoming movies He's got Welcome to Dairy an Attack on Titan.
I don't know if I had had issues with the direction per se, but
there are some things in this movie that don't look great, and some of
it does that to do I don't think that has to do with him.
A lot of that is CGI. Yes, some of it I think his
direction in the way he chooses to shoot a couple of things. But you're
right, a lot of it is the CG. A lot of the wonky
look of this movie is the CGI and the breakneck speed of how like say
Superwoman moves around and uses her powers. She Superwoman or Supergirl. I think
it's Woman now, I feel like it was super Girl. I'm pretty sure
it's Supergirl. I don't know. Man, you can call her whatever you
want, dude. The synopsis of this movie Barry Allen uses his superspeed to
change the past, but his attempt to save his family creates a world without
superheroes, forcing him to race for his life in order to save the future.
That's kind of it, but it should say metahumans. Yeah, because
Batman he doesn't have superpowers, but he's still a superhero, still a suphero.
I agree. This movie stars Ezra Miller as Barry Allen. Booo not
to Barry Allen, Barry Allen's finest but Ezra Miller boo. Yeah, get
this out of the way. Obviously, he seems like he's a pretty bad
person. I actually think in this movie it's the best we've seen him so
far. As the flash Goo. Michael Keaton as Bruce Wayne slashed Batman.
What do you have to say about him? Bendicaded, I was wrong,
I was right, and I knew it all along. Oh man, what
a turn, What a turn. Yeah, as they noted, non Keaton
guy, not really a fan of his Batman. I gotta say he was
great in this the best character in this movie. I really enjoyed the take
on the character that we got. I loved him back in eighty nine and
ninety two. But I'm also willing to say now that over the past thirty
years question Mark, Yeah, he's become a better actor as well. Sure
he has so much more range and what he does with this character, he's
all over the place. Yeah, he does a great job elsewhere here in
the movie. Good. We get Ben Affleck as Bruce Wayne Batman, who
is not in it maybe as much as I had wanted, um, but
he does a good enough job. I don't think he was as strong as
Keaton in this movie, but that's not the sad. I still don't like
him more. Sasha Cally, I believe it's pronounced as Supergirl. She was
okay. I didn't think she was great. I didn't think she was bad.
Michael Shannon as General Zod. Yeah, hearing him talk about this movie,
he's just like, I don't care. He doesn't care. They even
said, you know, what was it like to return to being Zodig.
He's like, it wasn't that satisfying. Let's tell you that much good.
Ron Livingston as Barry's father, Harry Allen. He was great, Actually thought
he was great. I got both. I really really liked it yet And
speaking of his mother, Mary Bell Verdo as Norah Allen, she was very
good when she needed to be. H Kircy Clemens is Irish West. Barry's
basically basically his love interest. She's like kind of oddly spotted throughout this movie.
It's almost almost force yeah funny in like the one or two scenes,
or she lets Barry be funny in the one or two scenes that she's at.
Yeah, yeah, go a real negative about this movie. And I
don't want to make little kids feel bad. Ian Lowe as Little Berry.
I thought it was fucking terrible. Is that little Berry or a little Barry
whatever? You little rel howery little Berry. I thought it was really bad.
I thought it was terrible. Yeah, it wasn't great. A couple
more here before and there's some spoiler stuff that we'll get into in spoilers.
Galagado obviously pops up here as wonder Woman. It almost felt like she was
in the very first cut of this movie, and then what we got at
the end was a lot less of that almost felt like she was on the
set of Shazam Fury of the Gods and they said, hey, can you
come over here for a Yeah, we need we need you for a scene
because she's literally in here for a scene. And then go, I thought
this character is only in the movie for maybe five minutes. Sean Rogers as
Gary, roommate of Barry. I thought it was fucking unreal. Stole the
show with the leg It was awesome, absolutely killed me. Yes, go
some prerequisites for this movie, basically, how much did the prior DC stuff
matter. Now, you would think fifteen properties in a movie build as this
massive sort of crossover event maybe conclusion to these fifteen properties. You'd think a
lot of stuff would tie in here. Unfortunately, you don't get hardly any
tie ins. Essentially, all you really need to see prior to this movie
to understand the movie was Man of Steel, Yes, and Justice League.
I think that's about it. Zack Snyder's Justice League. No, because that's
not Cannon. No, but it's Speed Force. Okay, fair, but
it's not Cannon, which is weird, I know, but it's speed force.
Yeah, but hmm, that's a good point. The speed force in
that is used a little differently though, but it's still used and he discovers
it in that movie. Sure, but I mean it's like introduced sort of
in this as well. I don't think you really need to. But it's
a both watch both justice leagues, I guess. But point here is fifteen
movies in and you're telling us basically twelve of the fifteen, eleven of the
fifteen don't matter. Cops said that didn't matter. Yeah, And also there's
a little bit of a sour taste left here because it's a bit of an
unsatisfying quote unquote conclusion. And I'm not so sure anything that happens in this
movie means anything. It's satisfying in learning a lesson, but not necessarily like
it's not satisfying in wrapping off this world. It serves a serves of purpose
for one character and one character only, which is okay though it's okay in
a vacuum, but leading up to this with some flashpoint promise, it doesn't
really satisfy those those ends. So mac, I think I have a couple
of issues with this movie. My biggest one is that you're in a couple
scenes and then out of nowhere, the CGI just looks like trash. How
did this happen? It makes no sense. I don't know how they've been
working on it for so long, and especially actually to your point here at
them using the speed force in the Snyder cut. I don't know how.
It not only looks worse in this movie, but it not only doesn't look
worse than from the setor cut, but it's just like it just doesn't look
good. Between that, there are some action scenes that you get taken right
out of, and also there's a scene at the beginning of him running that
looks like a PS three cut scene. I still can't get over the way
this man runs. I don't know who show who told him to run?
Like, do you think that they were up against the wall, because you
know, X Men already used the coolest possible running scene and Sonic did a
pretty good job with it, so they're like, shit, we gotta do
something. No. No, I think you could have just at him run
like a normal person and it would have worked. Like if you watch you
saying Bolt run, it is a completely different stance than with the Flash run.
I'll tell you what I would have liked is if they recast Barry Allen
with Usain Bolt. Obviously that's not a great example, but if the fastest
human on the planet doesn't run remotely close to what they show us the flash
running like it's it's just doesn't jive. And I guess that you do explain
it away like he's skating over the ships of the speed skatting sort of stuff.
I don't know. It just doesn't look good, although it does lead
to one really funny scene in the ear He should have ran like Ellie de
la Cruz. Yeah, fastest sprig speed in the league right now, straightforward
speed baby. And then also, like I said earlier, with a gun.
And how this movie, you know, kind of goes a little outside
the bun with their jokes and maybe with some of their action. They take
some bigger swings here and get a bit weird on what Barry has to do.
Like at the beginning of the movie, this isn't really a spoiler,
but he needs to save babies fall out of a hospital window. It doesn't
necessarily look great. It looks not good. It looks not good, but
the idea of it I appreciate. It's fun. So that's a lot of
that's the the the interesting thing about this movie. Those two ideas are like
bouncing back and forth in your head the whole movie. A lot of it
doesn't look great. Yeah, but what they're doing is fun and it's pretty
that's unique. We haven't seen this yet. Yeah, it's it's a it's
a weird battle going on in your head the whole movie because you're like,
oh, this is fun, this is cool. But it doesn't look that
great. It looks like it's from twenty twelve. It doesn't look good.
It just it doesn't. And we're not saying they did a bad job.
Whoever greenlit it did a bad job. Whoever said all right, let's put
this to print. Whatever, it's cool. Uh. And you know us
being only you know, a few days a week removed from talking about Across
the Spider Verse and how amazing of a job those animators and there's a fourteen
year old kid that animated the Lego scene in that. And you can't tell
me this two hundred and twenty million dollar movie can't have good cgi. It
just doesn't. It's it is. It has been a decent problem the whole
time. I will say this though, is that they said, Okay,
yeah, we had a budget of two hundred and twenty million, but we
had to give one hundred and fifty of that to Michael Keaton. I would
have said money well spent. Yes, you would have said that. I
said that ROI on that payment right there is pretty goddamn good. All right,
mac, let's get into the gauntlet before we give our hot dog scores
and start diving into some spoilers, because it's really tough to talk about this
movie without spoiling anything. Fun factor, and I think there is tons of
fun. Even though I'm not the biggest fan of the main character, He's
still had some pretty good humor there. And then everything with Batman, bat
Man's if you will great great thumbs up. Yeah, consistent fun throughout,
and that's really what if you look at the best of DC so far,
be a Peacemaker, the Suicide Squad, or Shazam with honorable mention the Wonder
Woman, what separates those from the pack is the fun those properties have and
the fun you have throughout the run time. And so that's why even though
this isn't in the top tier, I don't think it's in the conversation with
those because thematically it feels more like those satisfactor, How satisfied were you by
this movie? And by the end of it, satisfied in a way that
I wasn't expecting, because I wasn't expecting them to wrap it up as they
did. Yeah, this is an interesting one because I think there's several satisfying
moments in this movie for a lot of moviegoers, being that somewhere ruined by
Reddit. For me, I didn't quite get that satisfaction. Additionally, I'm
a little dissatisfied with the lack of like multiverse and crossover stuff we got bor
on it or how boring was this movie? And I don't think it was
super boring. I already talked a little tick end of the second beginning of
the third act, and then also there is a storyline in here that wasn't
necessarily boring, but I thought it was wonderfully stupid. I wouldn't say boring
either, but I do think the big climax of the movie is pretty predictable.
You catch on maybe ten or fifteen minutes beforehand, and so maybe because
it's so predictable, it feels a bit boring in that moment, but no,
in general not boring the boometers low Aquator. It is better than twenty
seventeen's Aquaman, sure is Halloween. Will this movie get worse over time for
you or get better? I don't know, will it, Wayne, And
I don't think it will a ton for me. I think usually with movies
like this, the big Easter Rigg movies, the big cameo movies, after
that initial pop, you do get that, Wayne, But going into it,
you knew what all of these were gonna be. And I've kind of
sad in a couple of days and I'm still around the same. Yeah,
I agree with you more or less in that it didn't sort of it didn't
exceed my expectations. It didn't really fail to meet them either. It's sort
of like landed the plane roughly as I expected. But it's not gonna mean
much going forward. At least I don't think there's not gonna be much reason
to come back to this either. So probably naturally at will Wayne wien Pants,
Tent City, Excite, bike Mania? What got you going in this
movie? And it's very simple, one word, Keaton, Keaton Baby.
There is one action scene in this movie where it is stuff that. Now,
we've seen some really good action Batman scenes over the past decade with Affleck
with Pattinson, they gave us one with Keaton that I just loved. I
loved everything about it. Also, it's definitely not Keaton in the batsuit,
but that Baton man doing those things is fun. Can dope. It's a
true pants sent for anyone that loves Batman. Just like kicking the shit out
of like fifteen villains in a room. It really is satisfying. I don't
know if it's quite Batfleck level from bbs um And there's also a couple of
cool Battenson scenes. Everything it is in the conversation for best Batman scenes we've
seen. So that's honestly impressive considering that that Keaton Batman. We had never
had a scene like that before. Max credit Union. Who are we giving
credit to? And I will give it to my Italian brethren. He's Italian,
right. It's got I would say, for juggling this whole movie with
all the topics, and it's not too overwhelming, which is pretty good.
I think that's done pretty well. Yeah, it's weird you're giving the director
credit. I'm giving the writer's credit here, but we don't really love the
movie. I gotta give the writers credit, but I can't give Keaton every
award. This is in part because I had such low expectation for the writing
coming into this movie, and I thought it blew my expectations out of the
water. This movie is legit funny, legit hysterical, and I was worried
about that going in. For those of you tardy to the Mac and Goop
party, we rate everything on a forty hot dog rating system. Mac I
shall go first, and I think the most important thing for everybody going into
this, and this will really influence how much you like the movie, is
how much do you like Ezra Miller's flash. Not Ezra Miller in general as
a person, but his depiction of the character, his depiction of Barry Allen,
Because not only is there one of him, but there is double trouble.
There is a parent travel there is two of them, and the younger
one is turned up to eleven. He's way way more annoying. It's a
good way of putting it. Yeah, So if you love that character,
I think this is more for you than for me. I'm also willing to
ignore some wonky CGI but there was a lot like around each turn, there
was more weird cgi that I didn't love. But the movie's pretty fun and
Michael Keaton is just fucking amazing in this. He saves the movie for me,
not necessarily from being a terrible movie, but it goes from being a
good movie, one that you might not remember, to being pretty memorable because
of him. I love him the charisma, the humor, the action scenes.
Like I said earlier, not necessarily with him, but with that character.
And he needs to be brought back for the Batman Beyond movie that was
promised to us, not really promised, but they had green lit it and
then they took it away. But make this movie with him as the surly
old Bruce Wayne, because we see it here. He can pull that off
and it'll be fucking amazing. Affleck also good as Batman. Everything Batman thumbs
up. There are some really great cameos, really good Easter Eggs ones that
I really wish I didn't know about it, because they would have fucking blew
my pants off. That's not even a saying. It would have happened.
They would have flew up to the ceiling, My pants would have flume,
so I liked a bunch of stuff in this. I loved some stuff in
this, but the movie didn't really blow me away. I got it at
thirty three Hot Dogs. Now, before I get into my dog score,
do you think your score is affected by the fact that you were sort of
expecting like a forty dog movie. So let's say two months ago. You
know, once once Gun came out and said that Once CRUs came out and
said that you're expecting like thirty eight thirty nine. Sure, but also if
you gave me like ten more minutes of Keaton forty, if you give me
more money thirty five. I think coming into this movie, I didn't expect
it to be any better than like a thirty six thirty seven dog movie.
So I think that helps my score, And maybe that's why your score isn't
as high. Some people might might think, all right, goo uh,
don't get me wrong. I do like the story in the very human message
this film has especially to round out our hero, to round out Barry.
It really works for Barry Allen the Flash. However, it is hard not
feeling disappointed with the lack of multiverses or crossovers after once again being promised a
bill of goods that we simply did not get. This is getting pretty tiring
for these big multiverse events where we really just operate in two. In fact,
it suffers from the exact same problems, not all of them, but
many of the same problems that Multiverse of Madness had. We're going in,
you're expecting let's say, five crossovers or whatever, and you really just get
one big one, and so it's a little bit of a letdown. So
ultimately this movie feels more like a solo movie, oddly enough, than it
does some massive crossover despite the inclusion of some certain characters. So I suppose
calling it the Flash works because it really is just a movie about the Flash,
how the Flash grows, how the Flash gets rounded out, even though
it's quote unquote U multiverse movie. One of those characters, though, Goo,
as we've talked about extensively here so far, is Michael Keaton's Batman,
and he's flat out awesome. He's the best character in this movie, and
he also provides what I think is the best scene in this movie, giving
us a Keaton scene we had never seen before in the Batsuit. Also,
to your point, I think the next best scene might be the opening with
Batfleck in that whole chase thing, that was pretty sweet as well. And
to expand on what you were talking about with the CGI, I think that's
gonna be a really common criticism of this film. Maybe the most common criticism
is this lackluster CGI. And again, all this talk about this movie being
one of the greatest comic book movies ever and having a budget north of two
hundred and twenty million, there's no excuse for the loads of bad CGI in
this just none. There's no reason for it. And several scenes in here
that are supposed to be great or maybe emotionally great, feel a little less
because the CGI is not good. So it actually does take away from moments
in this movie. And final real criticism of this movie, and it's probably
the biggest, it lacks a good villain. It's almost devoid of a real
villain. Because if you want to and you know, it does work because
of the barry stuff going on, but if you want to compare this to
The Goats or talk about this being one of the greatest conflict movies of all
time, it needs that. It needs a great villain, a villain that
we hate, or a villain that we can understand their motivations and it doesn't
have it. And then once you really figure out what's going on in this
movie, it loses a little bit of steam as well. And I do
think probably they pulled back on some of the possibilities and potential of the story
because they're planning on using some stuff in the future, or guns planning on
using some stuff in the future. And I get that, but it does
ultimately hurt this movie. All that being said, go I laughed out loud
a shit ton of times in this movie. This movie is hysterical. There's
loads of fun. I do wonder because it does get like silly and goofy,
especially with the young Barry. If there's some Love and Thunder fan reaction
to this that it's almost a little too goofire, too silly. I don't
have those thoughts. I thought it was really good, just as I thought
Love and Thunder is really good. So do I have this at thirty four
hot dogs. It's the third best DCU movie to me, behind The Suicide
Squad and Shazam. I forget what I gave Peacemaker, but I think it's
right around that as well, and those are just ahead of Wonder Woman and
for me, probably the fourth best movie of twenty twenty three, just narrowly
edging out Quantum Mania. But those might flipflop as the year goes on.
They're different. Quantum Adia's get a great villain, maybe missed on some other
parts, and the Flash has some great moments throughout but lacks a great villain.
So it's interesting to think here that I might like this movie a little
bit more than you considering how we were going into it. So I have
this third in the DCU, but right around where Wonder Woman is, I
still have these Suicide Squad at number one, shazamat number two, and then
on the year so far, I have it around five or six, right
around where BlackBerry is maybe a little bit lower than BlackBerry, and for com
book movies below across the Spider Verse, Guardians and you have it above quantum
Mania as well. I didn't not have it, not well above quantum Mania.
I have quantum Mania around like thirty one, so it's two or three
dogs higher. All right, Yeah, so I liked quantum Mania a bit
more than you then, but quantum Mania, hear me out, didn't have
Michael Keaton, spiler spiler, spilers, spoilers goo, Yes, full disclosure.
We've mentioned this a couple of times. We mentioned this in teasing this
movie a bit. Had we not known some of these cameos, I have
no doubt in my mind that both of our once again we're spoiling. We're
gonna start talking about the cameos right now, so turn your radio off.
Which we talked about stuff like six weeks. Again, if you heard that,
you know these. But if we hadn't known any of that, I
think both of our dog scores are at least probably because even way about this
next one, I still had a smile on my face as it was happening.
But if I didn't know about it, because I'd have been like,
they're gonna They're gonna do it. They're gonna do it, They're gonna do
it. They had Nicolas Cage as Superman fighting a giant spider. Long haired
Nicolas Cage in the suit that we saw from the infamous photo fighting a gigantic
spider in some other dimension, some other world. He was wearing the fruit
roll up Superman outfit with the deep V and the mullet. Yeah. It
was very, very fun, very satisfying, again, it would have been
so much more satisfying had we not known that. This also calls into question,
and this is the same thing with all of these except for one at
the end. Did you like how they just like peek into these universes and
the characters just like oddly turned and then nothing else happens with them. I
would have liked Barry running through it, maybe interacting with them for a second.
I agree. I agree because it was a little bit of like a
I'm not gonna say a throwaway especially look like the Christopher Reeve one and the
Adam West one was really weird, just a bunch of West and like a
kaleidoscope type of thing. But I don't know if I necessarily needed it in
the Cage one because he was fighting the Spider. Yeah, no, we
got we got a bit of an extended one with Cage. It's just I
agree with you that, like I wanted some interaction between this universe in some
of those universes. Instead they just sort of show him in the background,
which is now a little frustrated. Do we believe that this is gonna win
the pants tent City Moment of the Year. Uh No, No, because
as cool as it is in the theater. I didn't get the pop that
it needed, you know what I mean? I did, I still got
it even knew Even though I knew it was coming, I was still like,
Wow, they actually did this. Yeah, they actually did it and
showed this. Don't get me wrong. It would have been cool if,
like say, in the actual fight they had with Zod, a giant mechanical
spider was out there and then Nick Cage just showed up and started fighting it.
That would have been cooler. But we still got to see this.
That's where I get a little frustrated with, like, this movie could have
done a lot knowing that it's a conclusion, or knowing that what happens in
here really doesn't affect stuff going forward. So I did want them to get
like crazier than they did. Multiverse wise, bring it a fucking giant spider.
Oh my god, you know it would been okay. So what if
during that giant fight, like Cage shows up, Reeves shows up, Adam
West shows up, and then Keaton looks right at the camera and goes,
that's nuts. I thought we were gonna get something like that, some major
battle or fight like that, and we just didn't. We do get a
somewhat cool like Flash and the Flashes and Batman against all of Zod's like you
know, cronies, But I don't know it just it just it lacked the
big crossover moment despite it having the offic Batman. But once again, we
did get Cage. We did get Cage. We also got Goo Christopher Reeves
in sort of just a quick glimpse. I forget who the Supergirl is in
that universe. We get hers. Well, yeah, so she had her
own movie I think in eighty six and it's yeah, that's right, known
as one of the worst movies of all time. Yeah, it's not good.
We also see George Reeves briefly here to the original Superman. I'm pretty
sure. Did we see Brandon Ralph as well? Well? Was he serving
popcorn at the theater? We also got the joke, guys, Brandon Ralph's
a good guy. We get a glimpse of Adam West as Batman and then
Goo at the very end of this movie, which was also incredibly satisfying.
Yeah, and I couldn't tell you why. I think because we both want
redemption for this actor. George Clooney shows back up as Bruce Wayne Batman in
Barry's quote unquote normal universe where he's supposed to be, which is a great
tie into how Barry solves his dad's problem, right yep. And course the
line of who the fuck are you? There's a great toss in there.
I would have loved it. And this doesn't take away from the scene.
But you know how at the beginning of the movie, Batman or Alfred calls
Barry into a battle. If that happened again, where Batman called Barry into
a battle and he goes into the battle and it's George Clooney wearing the nipple
bat suit. Yeah, I need to see if the nipples are there.
I think that would have done it more for me. Yeah, that would
have been cool. I do like though, you know, when Barry ultimately
learns from the big moment in this film spoiler here obviously we're in the spoilers.
The villain in this is just young Barry who's been stuck in time forever,
which I didn't love, but I sort of get for Barry. And
we also knew going in. We even said who's the bad guy? Barry?
Probably Barry. I love that the little fix way back when so that
his father looks up still has a little bit of a change in his universe.
So instead of Batfleck, now we have George Clooney as the Batman and
Ezra Miller's verse in Barry Allen's universe, which I really liked. I like
that little touch on it. No Halle Barry though, Yeah, no Halle
Berry. So what does that mean? Is she gonna be Storm again?
Is she coming back a storm? I don't I don't know. Now I'm
so fucking confused. Also, I mean, you didn't need to do much
with this, but you showed a bunch of different worlds. Maybe you have
a world with some of the animated characters, because DC has done really well
with their animated stuff. How about a little nod to Kevin Conroy, Mark
Hamill, any of the Superman stuff from the nineties now and now this is
a double spoiler warning. If you haven't seen Across the Spider Verse, skip
ahead one minute. How can a cross the Spider Verse give me the live
action Donald Crowler and then this movie not give us those animated characters even just
a little wink to saying, like, so, Kevin Conroy, within the
past year has died come on, he's dead. Yes, he's dead,
So come on, don't make fun of him. That's what I was trying
to do. But just give him. I'm like, hey, you are
maybe the best Batman of all time. Let's put you on the big screen
for a second, right, a little a little little homage. Yeah,
that would have made a lot of sense. I felt like, although there
was a great point in this movie when they're in the bat cave and he
has a bag of laughing teeth. Yes, that was good. That's pretty
good. Yeah goo. Ultimately, my takeaways from these cameos, and I
think yours as well. The cage and Cluney stuff would have been fucking incredible.
It's awesome. Anyways, it would be fucking incredible had we not known
about it. And also they would have been better if they played into the
story a little bit more. Yeah, that's true as well. Also there
so there's a bank robbery at the beginning, or a hospital. I don't
know what they're doing. There's some kind of a highjink, some kind of
a virus. Yeah, so they're still a virus at the beginning, and
it's just goons. I would have loved it, and maybe they should have
either done Jared Leto's Joker or Harley Quinn as the person that's running this,
uh theft something like that. Just tossing another little bit of something for the
people to have. Yeah, again, since you know what happens to this
movie really doesn't mean stuff going forward, get fun there, give us a
cool character Captain Boomerang for all I care. Yeah, someone anyone besides a
faceless bank robber or heist guy. Good another time travel bit. I loved
in this. This was good. Yeah, this is good. In the
Young Barry or the eighteen year Old Berries universe, Eric stoltz is Back to
the Future actually came out, So Michael Jock, Michael J. Fox never
played Marty McFly and so that ripple effect was Michael J. Fox ended up
playing a character in another movie Loose, was okay in Footloose, and then
Kevin Bacon was in Top Gun, and then Tom Cruise was in something as
well. It was it was. It was a very funny ripple effect because
I really enjoyed that as well. Good. Let's get back to the plot
of the movie here, and now that we're talking about spoilers, Essentially,
Barry is now able to enter the Speed Force at will, and now that
he can, he realizes he can actually time travel, so he convinces himself
he can go back and save his mother from dying and save his father from
being wrongfully accused of killing her. That's the rough plot of this movie,
and obviously things go awry. He gets stuck in the eighteen year old Berries
universe because eight year old Berry pushes him out of the Speed Force, which
I did love. I don't even really know if they paid that off all
that well, Oh yes, I got lost on my page there and this
is one of the few or maybe the only universe where his mother's actually still
alive, which motivates are Barry to actually stay there? And I just don't
know, like maybe because we just saw and across the Spider Verse, it
felt a little stale them or Barry going back and trying to change these like
cannon level events, right, these events that were meant to be and that
can't be going back. I've seen a bunch of time traveling movies too,
Yeah, and that's part of it, so that that felt a little stale.
I don't really love that eighteen year old Barry ends up being the villain.
You know, he's just trapped in time trying to change shit. And
again that works for Barry's growth as a character and for Barry to become the
best Flash he can be. I just don't think it works for the movie
all that well, that makes sense, But I will say that final scene
with his mother in the convenience store in the supermarket hits. It's nice.
Yeah, that was nice. It's a good emotional scene. But I keep
thinking about this now in the you know what are we five days or removed
from this movie? I keep thinking about the promise for flashpoint level stuff in
this movie and us not getting anything remotely like that, and the flash point
level stuff reboots the universe, right, This doesn't do that. It doesn't
even remotely come close to it. And we don't really know how this character
is gonna play in James Gun stuff going forward, or if it is at
all. So it's also kind of confusing. I don't know. It just
it just feels almost inconsequential. I'm not gonna use the word useless, but
nothing really meaningful going forward from it, and it's not even really a conclusion
for the last ten years of the DCU, So we're stuck in in a
weird medium there. Okay, So the thing that I hate the most in
this movie, like I think barn One outside of the CGI, the CGI
really wasn't great. But one of the things in this movie is that Barry
goes out of his way to make sure that his younger self gets his powers,
but in the process he gets struck by lightning again and he loses his
powers. So we then have half an hour of one Barry being powerless,
but then he gets his powers back by being struck by lightning and being hit
with all the acid again, as if he's Fred Flintstone who gets amnesia from
being hitten out the frying pan and then gets his memory back from being hit
in ahead of the frying pan again. Yeah, that was really flimsy.
I agree, that was Like, we're really stretching it here, and I
want to be clear for the listeners at home too. It's hard for us
too. We are kind of hyper criticizing the movie here in part because it
was promised to be the best movie of all time. But I want you
guys to understand as well, because this movie was so funny and had so
much fun it's really bringing it up. It's more forgiving a lot of what's
wrong, Like this half an hour fun and like there's a bunch of fun
stuff in this half hour, a lot a lot of stuff that has to
do with Batman. But like we have a ten to fifteen minute scene of
him getting his powers back that you could have just cut from the movie.
Yeah, it wasn't. It just wasn't. And they Supergirl delivers the line
that Barry delivers to her when they save her from Russia. Like that didn't
really hit at all either. So, dude, did you care for the
explanation that Superman's like fighting up? I thought you were gonna say, do
you care for Michael Keaton's outfit of like his mechanics with like the tied off
kerchief when we first see him. No, oh no, he's wearing a
kerchief whenever he's Bruce Wayne. Oh that's true. Yeah, But speaking of
when we first get introduced reintroduced to Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne, he's old looking,
he's got hair beard, and the scene in the kitchen where he kicks
ass was awesome too. Yeah, but it was fun to see him turn
from like, oh I don't want to do any of this to wait,
I kinda want to have fun again as Batman jump back into this stuff.
Also, I love the fact that Barry has been, you know, working
with all this time traveling stuff. He's been talking with the other Bruce Wayne
about it everything else, and within a second Michael Keaton's Bruce Wayne explains it
to him like, I'm smarter than you. I know more about everything than
you. I wonder who do you think is in play going forward in James
Gunns universe or universes from this movie, if anyone. So, I do
think this is not the last time that we see Michael Keaton's Batman. That
is interesting that you think that. I don't think he's ever going to get
his own solo movie again. But I really think Beyond has to be on
the table because Terry McGinnis is also such a fucking great character. Yeah,
it's true. I do think it's gonna be hard for them to ignore how
popular and how much he's gonna be liked again as Batman coming out of this.
But what will be tough for them is that I'm not sure what his
quote is, but I'm pretty sure it's like twenty five or thirty million bucks,
So it's a lot of fucking money. But don't you also feel like
because of the way he goes out in this movie spoiler he dies. It
was his swan song, right, so he does die. He does die
twice, Live Die, repeat. But also that doesn't necessarily mean anything,
because it could just be another time cycle. Hear me out. I think
it does mean something because it seems like what they're setting up is Clooney to
get that redemption that you're speaking for, not Keaton doesn't really need the redemption
either, right every day, but it almost feels like they're setting Clooney up
to show up again. But again he dies and they replace Batfleck with Clooney,
So it feels like, if we're gonna get anyone, it's gonna be
Clue. I don't think so. I think if we get anyone, I
think this was a nice little nod for Clooney at the end, but I
don't think they have any plans of Clooney ever being Batman or Bruce Wayne ever.
Again. I think that Keaton because of the popularity in this movie once
again, and I think coming out of it critics wise, fan wise,
one thing that everyone will agree on is that Michael Keaton rules. Yes,
lowest common denominator here is that Michael Keaton rules. Maybe you're right too,
because they probably would have showed Clooney in a suit at the end if he
was again, and then once again going forward. It can be an elseworld
movie. So none of this even matters, but that I don't like that.
But I'm thinking about this, like because you know, we criticized Multiverse
of Madness a lot, and rightfully so for having a lot of the same
issues. But this movie is so much more fun than that movie, you
know what I mean? Like, it absolutely is. In spite of this
movie's issues, I still had a blast watching it. Agreed, So I
think that they should have saved the you want to Get Nuts, Let's get
Nuts. They didn't need that for the trailer, and if they had saved
that for the movie, I think the theaters would have all erupted. Yep,
that combined with the cage and Cluney stuff, would have been three great
pops had we not known about it. Good. We get one post credit
in this movie, and it's Jason Momoa. I think it sucks. Jason
Momoa as Aquaman drinking with Barry Allen's flash outside of his apartment at that that'll
local barroom, and it is bad. It's thanks useless, it's unnecessary.
I don't get why that this was here. I just mentioned a second ago
that you want to get nuts line. There was one line in this movie
that hit for me and I'm sure anyone that loves Batman eighty nine and it's
when Michael Keaton's Batman asked the two Flash and Supergirl. She's unconscious at the
time, how much do you weigh? And that's such a great callback to
when he asked Kim Basing of that in eighty nine. Yeah, for the
explosive there um cute, Correct me if I'm wrong, If I'm wrong.
In the post credit at the end of season one of Peacemaker, we see
we see Flash in Aquaman, right is that? Yes? Well, no,
we see all of them, right, No, we see still the
wets of a couple others, but we only actually see Era in Mamo.
I think, so I wonder if Ezra, well, actually, I don't
know if he's ever gonna come back, But it's kind of hard now that
you've built this whole flashpoint paradox around him. But it feels like Mamo is
gonna come back, right, and we still have his movie, we still
have Aquaman two. Yeah, so I guess I don't know. Is that
why they stuck him in the post credit is actually gonna be there going forward?
As if in Aquaman two, Mamoa looks at the camera goes, I
was Lobo all along. That would be sick. That would be sick.
And then you know, someone with blonde hair and like an orange short pops
up, played by Vinnie Chase, and he's like, I'm the real Aquaman,
this big head. Yeah, yeah, you nailed that. He had
a huge hat, didn't he He did so. I also would have liked
so Keaton in this movie his batman, it's pretty strong, stronger than Drew.
You know, your normal seventy year old man, unless you're seventy year
old man is Michael Myers from the Halloween franchise. I would have liked maybe
a small mention that maybe keaton suit gave him some enhanced strength. Yeah.
That all just plays into why I love the Baffleck character so much, because
they explain stuff easily. You know, you're not asking questions about why stuff
happens. And of course I'm talking about the voice modulator most notably. But
yeah, you're right, they should have probably talked about how this seventy year
old man is whooping ass like that. Also, I do like them.
At the end of the movie, the way that he fixes the situation for
his father is he just puts the cans of tomatoes on the top shelf.
Yeah, that's a nice subtle fix. And I that's why I think I
like the Cluney thing so much, because it's a nice subtle change. On
the other end, it's it's a good one for one there. I really
I really enjoyed both of those things. So once again, I don't know
it was I too negative. I don't think I was too No, No,
most of my negativity has to do with the flash and with CGI.
Yeah, and also you have to consider what was being touted for this movie.
You know, you can't you can't spend two months paying people to come
out and say this is one of the greatest superhero movies of all time and
not have us going in expecting something on that level. So when it's not
on that level, we're naturally inclined to be a little more you know,
criticizing of it. So it just makes sense I'll be positive to wrap this
up, okay. Michael Keaton, Ben Affleck, m Nicolas Cage, and
George Clooney. George Clooney is like a half, So three and a half
great things right there. So well, what's the mount rushmore things in the
movie? You name three, what's the fourth? It'd be those four?
Probably? Okay, all right? So three three Batman and Nicholas Cage.
Nicholas Cage with this fruit roll up the super tight outfit looking off and sparking.
I want to watch and that's what like forty five seconds? If that
it's it is brief, I want to watch it on a loop. I
also felt like, uh, and this is a big part of that scene.
All those scenes were the world's are all colliding, which didn't look great
anymore, but they were all CGI faces. Even that Cage was a CGI.
You couldn't have gotten Cage to come in and stand in come on,
and he goes, I'm Nick fucking Cage. Oh oh god. So thirty
three hot dogs, Yeah, thirty four I feel okay with that. Yeah,
Max and Max. That could be anything. It could be a boat.
Mac. Let me ask you this question without thinking too hard. Please
rank the live action Batman's slash Bruce Wayne. So toss him all into one
bin. So let's leave Kevin Conroy out of this and let's just go with
Adam West, Michael Keaton, Kevin Not, Kevin Conroy, Michael Keaton,
Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Christian Bale, Ben Affleck, Robert Pattinson.
I think I'm going to be accused of recency bias here with my answer,
but hear me out. I have a little bit of reasoning, a little
bit of backing too. What I'm gonna say I think still very clearly,
Ben Affleck Batfleck is the best version of Batman we've seen. He's this big,
brawling Batman and we don't get that with any of the other ones.
That's my preferred version of the character. And if you're going to believe,
at least for me, and I made this argument before, if you're going
to believe someone as Batman, you really need to believe that he can kick
of the world's ass, and a lot of the other Batman that's not a
believable aspect. So he's the only version of that. Plus, I think
he's the best Bruce Wayne. I think he's the most believable. Now,
Bail is close. I'll fully mit Bill is close. He's the most believable,
as like that billionaire the Tony Start, you know, billionaire, playboy,
philanthropist. But Bail is close there. And again the simple and subtled
fixes and explaining explanations they have for things like the voice modulator that bumps his
character up too. I still don't understand why that's not the standard for the
character now, and that bumps up Batfleck and bumps down Bail, because the
Bail stuff has been memed so many times over at this point that it's hard
to really like him talking when he when he's Batman, I think second,
because I don't think there's much bad to say at this moment about him.
Is Battinson Robert Pattinson. You know, this version of the character is not
as big and brooding as Batflex, but we do get the methodical detective type
more so than any of the other characters, which I think differentiates him as
well. So that's pretty satisfying. And of course he does kick a lot
of ass in that movie. I think he lacks in the Bruce Wayne aspects
though, and so that's what I keep coming back to I think bat Fleck
is great as both. I'm not sure any of the other ones are,
and so we'll get the Bail. I don't think he's great as Batman because
of that voice. It's just fucking it's funny. It shouldn't be and it
is. And then Keaton, I don't think he's a great Bruce Wayne,
like I have a hard time believing that ugly fuck is, you know,
this playboy philanthropist and maybe that's just a meet thing, and so be it.
And then after that West, Kilmer Cluney rank them how you want.
West is like kind of operating in his own world there. I actually don't
mind Kilmer, but I can't pretend that I love him. Clooney, I
think was definitely the worst. So number one, Keaton's Batman got Vicky Vail,
Kim Basing or a Michelle Feiffer, a catwoman, So you can go
ahead and suck That's why it's not believable. You can suck it. Also,
I like how I said, without thinking too hard, and you wrote
a goddamn versus. So at number seven I would put George Clooney. I
think that he he is the worst at both all the way down the line
at number six to meet Val Kilmer. I liked his Bruce Wayne enough,
I don't think his Batman was great. I would then put Adam West,
who took a very goofy role pretty seriously and I do like that. I
would then go with Ben Affleck as four. And this is not his fault
because I think he's great at both Bruce Wayne and Batman, but never got
a standalone and I don't really like or love any of his movies, so
that has to hurt him a little bit. Christian Bale I think is the
best Bruce Wayne, but his Batman leaves a little bit to be desired.
Robert Pattinson I think is the best Batman, but as Bruce Wayne still needs
more time TBD on that. And then I think Michael Keaton is just adding
this onto the pile. Is just fun. He's a big, roundabout fun
Batman. He might Yeah, I like you. You're never not gonna have
Keaton at once, so I can't even really have this conversation with you if
you want to, just for the listeners. If a Batman award goes to
Michael Keaton, if we were to do this the way we do top tens.
Battenson would actually come out number one between us because we both had him
at number two. So maybe that's maybe he's the best one. He kicks
a bunch of ass. He's great as Batman's. Maybe he's only he's only
gonna get better. That's that's also too, he's the only one that actually
solves crimes and solves mysteries. Yes, yeah, he's the only detective.
Although, so I do like that, I want to say, starting with
Bail, because Bail did, you know, some forensics and stuff and did
a bit of that, but affleck, the crimes weren't great, Like he
wasn't doing a great job with like the detective work, but he was at
least doing some, Yes, And then Pattinson took it to a whole new
level, and Keaton was doing a bunch in this one too. Yeah,
I think if we get two more Battenson movies, I think there's a chance
we both have him number one. Agreed, Agreed, all right, Mac,
where can the people find us? You could find us on Twitter and
on Instagram, at mac and goopop cast on every other platform. We are
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a Freemac and goot t shirt from the folks over at Watertown Sportswear thirty four
Mont Auburn Street in Watertown, Watertown Sportswear dot Com expert screenprinting Anna Broderytpublic dot
com. Check out next week we'll be doing and I think you should leave
countdown of the sketches. Yeah. We also get trivia next week. Oh
shit, we do Yeah, Oh, trivia next week for nineties Tunes,
Nineties Cartoons, WB Fox, Kids, Disney Afternoons, Cartoon Network, Nickelodeon.
There's a bunch in there, babe, yeaha baba yes. Also earlier
I mentioned the movie BlackBerry that is starring Glenn Howarden and Jay Barrett Shout.
I would recommend it. Check it out where wherever you can find And you're
a noted uh Jay Barshaw hater. I'm not a big fan of Jay barreshall,
but I am a big fan of Glenn Howard and and he is great.
What's the Tarrant Edgerton movie. I thought he was in that movie Tetris,
oh, which I still need to say. That's right, that's right,
that's right. But go and check those out. So I guess that's
it for us. Yeah, see you on the other side. Tuesdays or
Goose Days. I abuse kangaroos. By now it's time for girls jumping on
trampolines. Please flip the cassette over to side B to continue the adventure.