Welcome to Hacking Your Leadership. I'm Chris and I'm Lorenzo. And Lorenzo.
On this episode, I want to talk about a listener question that we received
on LinkedIn. This is a pretty interesting one. It's one that resonated with
me in terms of the some of the things that I struggled with earlier in
my leadership career. A person wrote to us and said that one of the
things that they struggle with in terms of leading a team is that they find
themselves constantly choosing between jumping in and doing the work of their team or holding
them accountable to the work they're supposed to be doing and delegating it for them.
And the context of it is that they often find themselves struggling to quantify
what they do in terms of leading their team, and so they take these
these opportunities to jump in and do the work of their team because it makes
them feel good like they actually did something. Then they realize after the fact,
I shouldn't have done that. I need to hold my team accountable.
But they struggle with making that happen, especially in terms of the fact that
they're a new leader leading a new team. I like this a lot.
Again, it's something I struggle with and I think other leaders struggle with it
too. Yeah, it is definitely one of the things that I think everybody
has to struggle through it. It's not one of those things that you figure
out right away, because if you if you're too far one way or the
other, meaning that you never jump in and help your team or you always
jump in and help your team, that's when it becomes like a really stand
out, major type of an issue. Typically, it's that we all struggle
with it because we realize that you kind of have to be somewhere in the
middle, and it's very kind of dialed into what is the thing, Like
there's a difference between hopping in to go do something that anybody else could do
because you want to not do something else, like you're avoiding some of the
other work, and so like logic, go do that, and then I'll
tell everybody like, oh, I'm gonna go do this, and then try
to sell it to yourself. Is like, see, I'm just I'm a
servant leader and I'm role modeling the behavior and this is what I do,
which like right, yeah, exactly, but you just don't want to do
the other thing versus the times when your team actually needs your help and the
best way to add value in that moment is to actually go and do the
thing with them. Like like those I think the things that you do have
to struggle through and figure out as a leader. And as you go through
it though, like this this listener, it can be very much like tearing
at you a little bit and feeling like was that the right call? Did
I do the right thing? Am I going too much? And then a
lot of times as well, and I've experienced this is that you know,
young like younger in your leadership career, you're going to have other leaders and
mentors that have figured this out. They've kind of been like nope, like
these are the times that you jump in. These are the times that you
kind of like step back and then you delegate and that type of stuff,
and they will be really clear to tell you how they feel about it,
whether they thought you did it right or wrong. Like that's the other thing
that you get. It's kind of like those that are just like, oh,
yeah, well you shouldn't have done that right, And then it's like,
well, what should what should I have done? Well, you should
have delegate, you should have but also like they weren't there. It's like
they you know, again they've learned through experience. But it's just one of
those unique things where I think that you you have to be open to jump
in. You don't want to be above the team or above the work,
but you also have to be conscious of the responsibilities that you have and being
able to do the things that only you can do right right. So one
of the things that this listener says that the reason they struggle with this is
because they they look at themselves as having a high level of work ethic.
And part of the reason that they tend to do this is to kind of
jump in and do the work for their team is because, and this is
their words, they prefer to be seen by their own boss as doing you
know, extraordinary work, you know, being able to jump in and get
everything done. And when I read that, I thought, yep, I
can relate to that feeling. And then when when I've been in situations where
I've been a leader of leaders, I remember thinking, Wow, this person
is jumping in doing all this work, and and I didn't see them as
being doing extraordinary worker, having high level of work act. I saw that
person as being unable to delegate and unable to do the work that they were
supposed to be doing as a leader. And so it's a you might think
that this is the impression you're giving your boss, is that, oh,
you want to be seen as like, oh, I'm a go get or
I can just jump in and get the work done. But in actuality,
if you do it in the wrong times or too often, you will you
won't be seen as you know that, oh you're the one that wants to
jump in and get everything done with your team, You'll be seen as the
one who doesn't know how to delegate to your team or hold them accountable to
getting their work done. So again, it's a case by case basis,
and it's easy to Monday morning quarterback it right. It's easy for a person
to come in and say, oh, you should have delegated when you didn't,
or you shouldn't have delegated, you should have jumped in and they struggled
for a while when you could have gone in and done the work with them.
But but it's not about any individual instance of this happening. It's about
the collective instances because there's no way to get it right every single time.
Especially when you're learning, and how your team feels about you is largely less
about whether or not you jumped in and more about whether or not you help
them solve the problem. And solving that problem might be doing it for them
in certain circumstances, or it might be giving them a tool they might need.
It might be taking something off their plate so they can focus more heavily
on the thing that they need to get done. As a learning experience,
it can run the gamut of what your role as a leader is in that
moment. But again, just because you aren't standing shoulder to shoulder with the
team doing the exact work that they're doing, it doesn't mean that you're going
to be viewed as as a leader as not effective as a leader. In
fact, that oftentimes the most effective leadership you can do is when you decide,
you know what, I'm not going to put this fire out with them.
I'm going to make sure that that the roads are clear so the fire
trucks can get in so they can put the fire out. That's where I'm
That's where I'm best served as a leader as opposed to just jumping in doing
it. Yeah, like I said, it's I think when we have a
conversation like this, we all immediately jump to very specific examples, right,
and again, sometimes it's like self soothing. Sometimes it's like no, no,
no, no, no, I get it understanding, Like that one
time that I jumped in like they needed me, Chris, like they like
there was there was no other option there. I had to jump in there.
And you might be right, you might absolutely be right, like that
might have been the right thing to do. I can tell you over time,
right, if that's the way in which you have to react, or
if that's the way in which you have to operate as a leader of people
or as a leader of leaders, what you're going to find out over time
is that that that that kind of exception of having to jump in and save
it now starts to become a little bit of the expectation yep. Now starts
to be a part of what you're supposed to do. And then as you
attempt to maybe grow and be able to get better at leading through people or
leading through leaders, and you start to do less of that, that also
becomes extremely noticeable yep. And then people are feeling like, oh, Chris
over here, man, he used to come out in the registers and help
us out. Chris, you just come out here and clean the floors,
Chris to the customers. Now, Chris is too busy. That's what ends
up happening. And so I think that, you know, you've got to
be conscious of that. And if you're in that space where you're you're struggling
maybe in either figuring out when and how or you're just struggling internally around like
how are they feeling about me? Am I doing the right thing? Is
this come across from right? Like the best way to work through that is
actually talk that through with your team. Oh, tell people, communicate it
out there, say hey, you know earlier today, yesterday, last week,
you know, I saw that this is what happened. I had to
jump in and get in there, and like, let me tell you all
first and foremost, like I want you to know if it's absolute desperation and
you need me, like I'm willing to go do that work. I will
jump in, I will help out. I enjoy it. I don't mind
it at all. But also like when I'm doing that, that's taking away
from me doing this. And like I liked your analogy about like if I'm
in here fighting the fires with you when I'm supposed to be in charge of
clearing the way for the fire truck. It feels good in the moment,
it feels like I'm right there, but like the actual action that I should
be taking is not being done and it's going to cause this to be in
either a larger issue potentially because we can't get the resources that we need as
quick as we can. It's kind of like if you've ever been into a
grocery store or a retailer and you get in that line and you're just like,
how come there's one person at this register right There's nine registers and there's
one person at a register right now? Like where is everybody else? And
if that leader think about this, if that manager says, I'm going to
hop on register too and say I can help who's next, but you don't
know that there's four people in the back that are working on something. And
because that leader didn't make a call back there, that leader just jumped in
and started to take the next customer instead of saying, hold on, I'll
be ready with you. Hey, everyone, I see the line, I've
got some resources in the back. I'm the manager here, and then we
go get some more people will get you out here quick as possible. How
you go back and you get them, and now you've got three or four
people at a register. As a customer waiting in line, I like that.
That feels good. I'm in line, which means I'm willing to wait.
I don't understand why there's just one. But now you've communicated with me,
You've done the work, You've done it that way. Like that's what
I mean by it's kind of like you have to be conscious of the role
in which you play, the responsibilities that you have, and you've got to
be able to make those calls. But I would tell you, tell the
team, Tell the team as you're learning, tell the team as these things
happening. Make sure you define what your role is, give the examples,
but let them know that like you will do it. If it was only
two people working that day, then there is no other option. Right then
you have to get on the register and do the thing. But like communicate
that with your team so that they could also learn over time on like when
do they have to hit the emergency switch, When do they need you to
come out and actually be side by side. They can start to understand those
things, and it takes away some of that internal maybe debate or dialogue that
you're having around making the right call. Yeah, I think where this can
happen often, especially in retail, but in a lot of areas too,
is whether or not the thing that has to be done is finite, is
in a moment in time or is this just how life is? So to
give an example, when I've struggled with this in the past in terms of
communicating to my team what was going on, it's when I know that there's
a line of customers or clients that has to get processed or talk to,
and that line is never ending. It's never gonna end. It's always going
to be there because the nature of the business. And if a person is
being taught how to process this and I'm standing shoulder to shoulder with them and
I'm not processing it with them. I'm just teaching them how to do it,
and I'm giving them pointers and tips and showing them how to do it,
the frustration from them could be Chris, why aren't you just doing this
with me? Like what? Like, just we can get done twice as
many people if you're doing it and I'm doing it, And in my mind,
I'm thinking, well, we can't get them twice as many people if
we're both doing it because you don't know how to do it yet. You
need to learn how to do this, and once you are able to do
it correctly and efficiently, you'll be far better at it than you are right
now because you're brand new at it. Might feel like in the moment that
you want me to jump in and start doing it right alongside you. But
and if this line of customers that we're processing has an end to it,
maybe that's the right thing to do, and then we get through it,
and then we start teaching and doing things at another time. But this line's
never going to go away. It's always going to be there because as people
move through, more people come in, it's always going to be there.
And so in circumstances like that, you have to kind of take a deep
breath and say, you know what, trust that this is the process.
That it might take longer to get through this right now, but I'm arming
you with the tools that you need to be able to do this on your
own to where you don't need somebody side by side with you going forward.
And in times when I struggle with this it's been in the lack of communication
that that's what's going on, and that can lead to that other person feeling
like I'm not seeing the bigger picture here. It's like they think of it
like why why is Chris teaching me how to do this right now when he
should be just doing it himself. And it's like, no, no,
no, this is intentional. I'm intentionally teaching how to do this because I
want you to be armed with these tools as opposed to just always needing someone
to come in and bail you out whenever it gets busy. And again,
communication is key. Without that communication, they don't think there's a strategy to
it. They think it's like maybe I don't want to jump in. I
don't want to go in and do this work myself. I'd rather sit here
and teach you as a leader. And it works the opposite way too.
If I'm jumping in and getting it done all my own, I could have
an employee who thinks, well, why is Chris always doing this for me?
I'm never going to learn how to do this if Chris is always jumping
in doing it for me. Again, people will tell their own story.
In the lack of communication. If you have a person who wants to jump
in and do things on their own and you're doing it for them, they'll
look at that as a negative. If you have a person who wants the
support and the help and for you jumping in and you're using it as a
teachable moment, they'll look at that as a negative. So it's the personality
of the person you're working with, combined with what their level of expertise or
comfort with the situation is all that goes into play, and the old only
way to clear the air and make sure they know that this isn't just kind
of happenstance, or this isn't like me trying to avoid something or do something
I want to do. There's a strategy to this and we're gonna get through
this together. That's the only way to make them understand that, Okay,
you know, let's let's work through this together, and then you know it'll
be the next time will be easier and easier after that. Absolutely, And
with that it brings us to this episode's one minute hack. But first,
if you work from our sponsors, all right, this episode, woman Hack
is all about communication before, during, and after any interaction where you might
be doing the work of the people who are supposed to be doing that work,
So you've to you have to jump in as a leader to help get
something done, or choose not to. Communicating with your people in advance of
the situation so they know what's about to happen here, that there's a strategy
to it, and then during it kind of touching base and making sure that
they're okay with how things are going. And then afterwards one a debrief.
So when when all is said and done, Hey, how did that go?
Do you feel like you learn something here? Could I've done something differently?
Did you need more support or less support? Did I do too much
for you or not enough for you? All of these things when it comes
to communication, are really important because each of your people want something different from
you as a leader, and if you do the same thing for all of
them, it's going to work really well for some of them and not well
for others. So find out what the gauge of the temperature of the room
is as well as what their bandwidth is to get done this task or this
project, and layer yourself in as needed, a little bit at a time,
with as little as possible, so that you are focusing more on leading
as much as possible, and then if you have to get in and do
some of the dirty work with them, then you can, but it has
to be something that's done strategically and with their permission. Slash communication, not
just because you decide you want to. Yeah, I like this one minute
hack and you know communication, communication, communication, Like the ability in these
spaces whereas a leader, you're internally assessing your decisions, but also like you're
looking to be in a place where your team believes in your decision making quality.
They understand what you're doing and why you're doing it. They can appreciate
and respect, you know, the way in which you support them, but
also challenge them and teach them and motivate them. Like in these types of
spaces, your ability to effectively communicate what's going on, how you're feeling,
how they're feeling, what you want to do, what the expectations are,
how you work together to make sure that everybody is getting the best out of
it as possible, I think is absolutely critical. I remember days where you
knows, as an assistant manager in a big box retail store where we were
just running slim people had vacations. Leaders got out sick. There were meetings
that were happening, and you found yourself typically where you may have two or
three peers with you during the whole afternoon and night time to run a really
big, fifty sixty thousand square foot store where you were the only one there.
And I actually enjoyed those moments a lot because I had to really intentionally
get around and talk to everybody in the building and every leader and say,
hey, I need your help and support here. Right, it's just me.
You know that, I know that I needed to make the calls.
I needed it to solve for the things that are going on. When you
need me or when you ask for me, you need to be really specific
on what you need so that I can address it as quickly as possible and
then me available for everyone else because it's just me, right, So like
like we need to run tight, we need to run clear, but I
trust you you got this. Let's go make it happen, and let's just
have a good time while we do it. But like that amount of communication
and then afterward as you go right and have communicating throughout the day in the
night time and then having a recap at the end of the day, like,
these are all things that I think in my career that I learned,
but I enjoyed and it really allowed it allowed me to create spaces where I
could kind of I had to trust and delegate, but also was able to
really better assess and support leaders who were capable of more, and these kind
of providing the opportunities to give them that opportunity to do more. Right.
I think that's that's so well stated. I also think that there will always
be this kind of need to quantify your value add no matter who you are,
no matter what your role is, And as you move up in an
organization or move through your career, chances are as you take on more responsibility
as a leader, you will be doing less tactical work. You know,
when you start out as a line level employee, all of your work is
tactical, you know, And then you get promoted, you start leading a
team of people, and maybe maybe it's you know, seventy five or sixty
five percent of your work is strategic and around leadership, and there's still some
tactical work that has to be done too, because that's just the way life
works. As you move up further and further, it's less and less tactical
and more and more strategic. And there's a reason why it's not all at
once, and that's because it's really difficult for a person to go from being
able to quantify everything they do on paper to being able to say, you
know what, I can't quantify it, but here's what I did. I
spoke to this many people today. You know, I had a conversation with
these people that, well, what would it do. I don't know.
It's yet to be seen, but we'll see how their performance is over time.
You can only quantify your value add as a leader, oftentimes looking backward
and looking at the performance of your team overall and how that has grown.
You need to be okay with that. If you are taking on the job
of a leader, you need to be okay with letting go of this idea
that you can you can show somebody on an Excel spreadsheet what you did for
the day, or you know how many widgets you made or products you sold
or things you moved. That that goes away when you take on the responsibility
of being a leader and instead you're talking about growing your team and helping them
accomplish their goals. If you are working for an organization that values leadership,
that is expected, and you need to be able to put on that bag
of bricks and say, you know what, I'm okay with this. I
need to focus on my people and know that it will work out. Know
that you don't necessarily have to do as much. Now, no matter what
level you're at, there will always be some tactical work. It might only
be one percent, but every once in a while it does have to happen,
and I can't be beneath you. But again, the default needs to
be why was I hired to do this job? And if that role has
the word leader in the title, you know, if you are a leader
of people, the default needs to be what can I do in spirit of
that role as a leader, and not in spirit of like an individual contributor
or the person who's doing the job itself. Start from that standpoint and kind
of layered in as you can, as opposed to just thinking that the default
needs to be, oh my gosh, I haven't sold anything yet today.
Well yeah, you're not supposed to write so, but again, communicate with
your team, make sure they know why you're doing what you're doing. And
I don't think you can go wrong with that. I think you'll get a
lot of grace from your team even if you make the wrong decision sometimes absolutely
And with that it brings us to the end of this episode. This is
hacking your leadership. I'm Lorenzo and I'm Chris, and we'll talk to you
all next time.