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Love Talk Radio. Welcome to us
a think Tank with your host Alejandro ro

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Boo Boo Boo Bob. That's a
cool song. I love it done by

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Kevin McLeod, So you can look
this guy up, great royalty free music

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that he puts out there. Thank
you, mister McCloud. But you are

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listening to my friends UFO Think Tank
Radio, and my name is Alejandro t

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Rojas. Thank you for listening,
and I'm so excited. I think I

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forgot to mention this last weekend.
I am very much apologized to my great

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friends over there at UFO Paranormal Radio. So if you're listening on UFO Paranormal

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Radio, thanks for tuning in.
And I am very excited to be a

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part of this awesome network ran by
Joe Montaldo. They're now syndicating my show,

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so it's being heard around the world, and I am sure once we

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are able to work it out,
Joe will be the first guy to be

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doing internet radio, I net webcasting
and other galaxies. That's going to be

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a great thing. Hopefully they'll be
able to understand us, and you know

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that would be weird because a lot
of these stories these guys communicate kind of

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brain to brain, So how will
that work? How will you know?

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That's just when we talk about UFO
disclosures. It's going to have such an

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impact on so many aspects of our
lives, including web chat. You know,

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we better are a web radio.
We better start thinking about that.

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But anyway, thank you all for
being here with me today. And as

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usual, we start off with some
UFO news. So let's check out what's

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been happening this week, and as
usual, there has been a lot going

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on. In fact, we will
start off with some of our stories.

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I think it wasn't able to cover
this one with you guys last week,

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or maybe it was the last one
I covered, but talking about oh yeah,

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doctor Jessin Marcel and Roswell. But
a great story by Kevin Randall.

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Kevin Randall being a Roswell researcher,
a UFO researcher and going to be one

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of the gentlemen speaking at our move
on symposium coming up here. You know

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what I had to tell you about
something special going on? Also, which

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is our guest tonight, who is
James Carrion, the International Director of the

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Mutual UFO Network, And I'm very
excited to have him on because he doesn't

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do a whole lot of media.
Typically, when the media gets ahold of

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him, he says, talk to
Alejandro, that's me because I handle most

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of those media spots, and so
I end up doing those interviews and getting

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beat up for move on for him. Just kidding. Actually, I get

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to talk with a lot of wonderful
people and share a lot of great information

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because Moufon does some good stuff.
So we'll be able to talk to James

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Carrion today and that's very exciting.
We'll talk a lot about the symposium and

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you guys can come out and see
James talk. You know, we had

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our guests last week, John Venture, who will also be talking at the

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symposium, and the gentleman I'm speaking
of now, Kevin Randall, will also

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be at the symposium. But he
wrote a great story about Jesse Marcel getting

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beat up I guess in some of
the UFO arenas some people calling him a

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liar and stuff like that, and
he's pretty much defending him and telling him,

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Hey, this guy's an American hero, Jesse Marcel. And he's not

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even talking about the UFO subject.
Jesse Marcell is actually a doctor. He's

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a flight surgeon, for the Army. He's done a couple of tours in

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Iraq. So that's why this gentleman's
American hero, regardless of the fact that

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he is coming forward with what his
father experienced and sharing, Hey, you

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know, my father showed me this
material that didn't seem to be anything that

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we had been able to create.
My father told me that this was,

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you know, a material from a
crash saucer that was probably from an extraterrestrial

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craft. And so, you know, he believed this while other and he

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has since not been able to explain
what he saw. So that's great that

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he comes out and talks, and
Kevin Randall's pretty much saying, you know,

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don't beat this guy up for being
in the wrong place at the wrong

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time, for being there when his
dad came and showed him this stuff.

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Also, Roger Marsh, we talked
a lot about Roger Marsh because he's been

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doing some really cool stuff as the
UFO Examiner. I'm examiner dot com also

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mostly posting some mofon stories, but
he has a story here on the Washington

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Mofon chief investigator who launched a new
website, James Clarkson. So that's something

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that you've got to check out because
he's putting a lot of information out there

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of sightings in the area. You
know, recently I talked about New England

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doing the same kind of thing.
Conglomeration of the different MoveOn groups. So

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it's great that these guys are getting
together and doing a lot, you know,

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MoveOn groups here and there are doing
a lot of great stuff, and

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maybe James will be able to update
us on that in just a minute.

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Here also a story on a dozen
silent UFOs crossing the Ohio Skies. Another

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move on report. Remember you can
go to MoveOn dot com and look at

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these reports in real time as soon
as that person push it to submit.

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When they put in a report on
the website, you're able to see that

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and read the details of that siting. In fact, we even have a

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graphical interface that works with Google where
you can see a little icon instantly pop

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up and this thing self updates itself, so you can open this have it

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open at work all day long,
go check it out and you'll be able

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to see the new sightings pop up
and stay up to date. And you

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know, that way, if maybe
you're you're at work and you see,

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you know, a dozen sidings surrounding
the area where you work. You know

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that, you know, maybe it's
time to kind of hit the road and

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go visit Grandma in the next date
or something, or go take a look

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and start snapping some pictures or taking
some video and you can submit that to

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the CMS. Also, it's so
advanced that they can take pictures and videos

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on there and there's some great pictures
video and Roger Marsh often we'll post those

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as well. Right here in Lakewood, Colorado, which is the town next

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door the town I actually work in
here in what the metro area of Denver,

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that people have seen a UFO hovering
over rooftops. So that was another

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sighting that was reported recently. You
know, people talked about sidings here and

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there, and the news really plays
it down, but they don't really mention

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or highlight the truth that there are
hundreds of sightings a month, literally hundreds

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of sightings a month. James sends
us out all out of a monthly report

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that shows how many sightings there have
been for the month, and there are

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literally hundreds that we receive a month
and thousands over a year, and a

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lot of these people are very credible. Some of the very credible people out

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there. In fact, are the
subject of my next story, which is

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some videos that have come out lately
that are really interesting. You know.

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One of them is Bud's Aldron talking
about a monolith on the moon, one

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of the moons of Mars. And
of course, of course a monolith could

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be just a structure of rock structure
or something like that, but it's interesting

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that the way he talks about it, and you can see this video,

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he's like, you know, if
people knew about that, we got to

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go check out who built that and
why that's there. This is a strange

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object, and so he's alluding to
something more mysterious than just you know,

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a normal rock jetting out there.
And you may have heard the stories of

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budget Aldren in the past waffling on
whether he's seen UFOs or not. Sometimes

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he says he does. Sometimes he
tries to explain away what he saw.

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So really interesting, what's going on
with buzz Aldron, And definitely with this

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interview, if he was really trying
to hype people up and talk about how

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we we need to go to the
Mars, we need to establish spaces on

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the Mars. Really and a lot
of scientists talk this way, Mars is

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the best place to go instead of
a space station, which is much more

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difficult to maintain. You know,
it's much more difficult to expand. If

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we went to the Moon, that
could be our launch platform to go to

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Mars. So that's really a lot
of people talk about. That's really the

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next step if we want to do
some real space exploration, turning the Moon

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into our space station, so you
know, much easier. Another interesting video

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that I posted here is the Obama
Press secretary was doing an interview recently early

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in the morning and they took some
calls from listeners and one of the listeners

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asked the UFO question. You know, he did a great job saying,

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hey, I know this may sound
silly, but please take this serious.

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You know. He mentioned edgar Mitchell, another astronaut who had been on the

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Moon, and edgar Mitchell talking about
how he knew Roswell was the real deal,

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and so this guy did treat him
really nice. He said, you

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know, we haven't talked about that. I haven't talked about that with Obama,

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but we certainly are committed to transparency
in government. So I don't know

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if that's going to move anything,
but it was an interesting transaction that you

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can see there and these videos.
Remember all of this stuff I'm talking about.

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You can go to ufothinkdink dot com, scroll down and you'll see this

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on the front page, these news
stories. Or you can go to mofon

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dot com and go to the UFO
Newswire and you'll also see these stories.

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And finally, a lot of triangles
being seen again. Roger Marsh writing a

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story on triangle UFOs being seen over
four states, and just recently he had

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written about triangular UFOs being seen over
six states. So you may remember in

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Belgium in the nineties and we actually
had the general who had done the investigation

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on the triangles that they were seeing
out there at our last symposium in San

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Jose. Wonderful person. You can
go to a move on dot com and

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purchase his talk, and I highly
highly recommend you do that because he covered

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how, you know, dozens of
police officers, military, other witnesses had

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seen these triangles. They tracked where
they had seen these triangles over Belgium.

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It's a it was just a wonderful
talk. I loved it, and so

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you've got to go check that out. But more triangles being seen over the

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US very strange. But without further
ado, I believe that we have mister

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James Carrion on the phone. I'm
here, great, I can hear you.

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Just fine, super sounded very good. So I had talked about earlier.

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I have a lot of stuff actually
I want to talk about with you,

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but not to be crueler or anything. But you know, some of

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the more difficult questions I face,
and they're actually not difficult. They're kind

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of fun and I like to clear
the air on some things. But you

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know, I was thinking it would
be kind of neat to ask you some

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of those questions and see how you
would respond to some of them. The

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first being I always I get this
a lot, and I'm sure you get

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it sometimes too. How MOFON is
part of the government, and move On

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is spreading disinformation or keeping information back
from the public. What do you think

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about that? It's absolutely true.
No, I'm just kiddused, absolutely not.

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No. You know, it's funny
because we are accused all the time

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of being part of some grand conspiracy. Actually, there's probably three or four

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move On board members that are on
some top one hundred men in black list.

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That's betting around the internet. You
know, the accusations are ridiculous.

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And and if anybody were to come
to the symposium this year and listen to

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my talk, specifically my talk on
some of the new research I've done from

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the very early days of UFOs and
the government complicity uh and in the start

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of a cover up. Uh And
and actually for some very different reasons that

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I'm going to be showing, I
think they would be very you know,

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very hesitant to make any accusations about
movement any longer. I mean, we're

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we are very much open, you
know, for us, the truth is

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it. And so you know,
we're trying to just as be as honest

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as possible and as forthcoming as possible
about our research, what we do,

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how we do it. And you
know, we're we're just on a mission

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here. We're on a mission to
try to figure out what this mystery is

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all about. So uh, you
know, we're not in bed with the

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government or there's no complicity there.
Yeah, And it's you know, being

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part and seeing how all this works. It's just funny. And I tell

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people the same thing. You know, come to a symposium or something,

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you'll you'll see very quickly that that's
not the truth that that's just kind of

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conspiracy talk out there and a lot
of people, as you know, it's

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kind of like, if you don't
see the things the way I do,

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then you're probably a disinformationist, right, And I would agree with that.

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And you know, actually I would
have to say that there just based on

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the time I've spent the move On, I've seen enough of some of the

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investigations we've done into some of the
allegations and some of the claims that have

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been made on the Internet and so
on to know that there is disinformation going

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on. There are active disinformation agents
out there planting information in the UFO field,

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you know, selling strange and wild
stories, but it's not originating from

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within move On. This is usually
something that pops up on some websites somewhere,

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or somebody starts making some some some
strange claims, but it's not it's

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not from within the organization. So
there there's some truth to uh, there

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being disinformation out there and inactively being
seated, uh, but it's not it's

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not from within mouf On itself.
Yeah. I had this guy just the

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other day call me and give me
a whole earload and and he just wouldn't

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stop. And I wish I would
have known earlier how to make him stop.

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Essentially just to disagree with him one
time. Well, I didn't necessarily

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disagree with him. He just went
in about Phil Schneider an underground basis,

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and I told him, well,
not everybody believes in Phil Schneider. And

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he said, oh, my gosh, mouf On is part of the illuminati,

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aren't they click Yeah, ridiculous,
Yeah, some silly stuff. But

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you had talked about disinformation and not
only are you not or wherever happen,

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if I'm correct, a member of
m J twelve, you yourself. I'm

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kind of skeptical of whether MJ twelve
exists or not. Is that true?

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You know, if you look back
at the history of youthology, m J

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twelve is one of those I would
I actually call it a myth because I

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don't believe it's really there's a true
group called m J twelve. And if

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you look back at the history,
it came out right after Charles Berlitz and

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Bill Moore, We're releasing their book
about the Roswell Incident, and all of

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a sudden we get these documents that
are talking about this group, and how

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Eisenhower's would be in briefed and the
documents themselves would never have been proven to

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be genuine. Subsequent to that,
we get a whole deluge of m J

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twelve related documentation and all of questionable
providence. So the real question is why

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was that documentation released at that time
and for what reason. My feeling is

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that in itself was an to disinformation
campaign. Send UFO researchers down this path,

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proved that m J twelve was a
real group, and in the meantime,

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the truth is somewhere else. So
this is one of the many rabbit

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holes that you follow just have then
sent down, sent down throughout the years.

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And I could name probably half a
dozen where we've been led astray and

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kept really busy somewhere else other than
we really should be looking. Yeah.

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So, and you do feel,
I mean even possibly more so than many

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others, that there is an active
or possibly many active disinformation projects or programs

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going on to get information, pour
information out into the community, right,

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And I would, and actually I
would probably have to state, you know,

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publicly and honestly here that my opinion
is that there's a cover up going

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on. But it's not for the
same reason a lot of people think it's

220
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going on. I think the field
has been hijacked. It's been used throughout

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the years for psychological warfare, for
counterintelligence, for as cover for our own

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exotic aircraft, and that has been
basically used for those purposes. But there

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is a true there's a true phenomena. The only problem is trying to figure

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out what that true phenomena is when
the waters have been so muddy by these

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active these agencies that have actively used
it for their own purposes is pretty much

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next to impossible. So this is
one of the things I've always believed that

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us in upology, we're never going
to get to the truth. We will

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never know what the true nature of
this phenomena is until we can unequivocally know

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what the role of government is first, and that that's going to take a

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lot of digging and a lot of
exposing how this field has been hijacked for

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these various purposes. Mm hmm.
Do you have any thoughts that way?

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Actually I do. I'm doing some
very active research right now, and I

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don't want to divulge what it is
at this minute. I mean, some

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of it is going to come out
at the symposium. But I have there's

235
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a plan. There's a plan in
place to start, you know, basically

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cracking this this this shell that's been
around the field for so long that that

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is the role of government, and
I think there is a way to crack

238
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it. I'm actually getting together a
group of researchers to work on that very

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same project. I know. It's
something that John Chusler is working on that

240
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I think is really exciting is some
of the cryptology and some of the work

241
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inside the government there some of the
government's well known cryptologists in the past and

242
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them working in the UFO arena and
actually trying to come up with ways to

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possibly communicate with extraterrestrials. I can't
wait till you finishes that. Yeah,

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John shared some of his research with
me. It's very fascinating mm hmm.

245
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Pretty incredible stuff. So, you
know, kind of along those same lines,

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some of the bigger investigations that you've
got you've been a part of.

247
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I know you did a lot of
work on those California drones. You know.

248
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I looked into the California drones,
not when it first happened, but

249
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soon after, when when some of
the TV shows expressed interest and and and

250
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investigating them. The thing, the
overwhelming factor that I that I saw that

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that led me to believe that the
drones were a part of a hoax or

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be also part of a disinformation campaign
was the fact that there that there were

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so many alleged witnesses, yet we
could never actually find one physical person that

254
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we could interview in person, you
know, actually in person, a real

255
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individual. So thirty something alleged to
witnesses to these drones, yet not one

256
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real person. It just doesn't add
up. Yeah, that's what started making

257
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me suspicious. In no case that
I've ever seen do you run across especially

258
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that many witnesses who don't want to
talk. And then on top of that,

259
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the reports that they had put in
were so ho hummed. There didn't

260
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show any excitement when really amost reports
the person writing is just baffled and kind

261
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of rolling through kind of like we
do, rolling through the possibilities of what

262
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it could be, and they show
some emotions, some excitement there and what

263
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they saw, and you really didn't
get much of that in the witness reports

264
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on the California Drunes exactly, or
the single report that we got on the

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drones in the move On website turned
out to be an email address that with

266
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no other contact information. So the
witness just left an email address. And

267
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despite the fact that we emailed to
address a number of times, we never

268
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got a response back. So again
we're we're dealing with folks that are anonymous

269
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witnesses. But anonymity is one thing, but you have to be able to

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prove that a person is real.
So there's a whole issue of non repreation,

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and and that was overwhelmingly the overwhelming
factor. There was that this that

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these people were non existent, these
witnesses. Yeah, and just for people's

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knowledge out there a couple of things, some his California drones. You couldn't

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look at that in the past.
And there were these real popular pictures that

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were pretty incredible that came out of
these strange crafts here again, these crafts

276
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that were nothing like what has previously
been described in the past, and these

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pictures they seemed too good to be
true. And I think you've got some

278
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people to look at these pictures and
give professional opinions on them, right,

279
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Yeah, there were a number of
photo analysts that looked at them. Our

280
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principal photo analysts, Mark Antonio looked
at them and and and to him,

281
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they appear to be CGI A computer
graphics and animation, And in fact,

282
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when he gave a workshop at our
symposium ye last year, even gave a

283
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demonstration of how they could have been
done, and that in itself is not

284
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convincing. The problem with authenticating photos
it's very very easy to hoax a photo

285
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these days with the state of art
computer animation software and hardware that's out there,

286
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so it's very difficult to actually prove
a photo is faked has been faked.

287
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So we really need some very good
analysts, and actually we've been working

288
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with some forensic computer experts who have
some very proprietary algorithms. We did this.

289
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We actually used their algorithms on a
case in Mexico that we investigated as

290
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part of the show UFO Is Over
Earth, and we were able to show

291
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through forensic science how these particular photos, although we couldn't show that they were

292
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definitively fake, we could show that
they were definitely not the originals as the

293
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witness that claimed to come right off
the cell phone. So yes, the

294
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computer world has allowed a lot of
folks to create some very high quality hoaxed

295
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:27.039
photos, but we're trying to keep
up with them with forensic science. I

296
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was impressed with myself at work when
I took this wedding photo and then changed

297
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the faces of two people at work
to make it look like they got married.

298
00:25:36.640 --> 00:25:42.440
And that looks pretty convincing. That
easy, Yeah, exactly. So

299
00:25:42.599 --> 00:25:45.440
another case that you did a lot
of work on, and you know,

300
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.960
with the drones and with this other
case. I think you did some of

301
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.240
the best work on both of these
cases. That's why I bring them up.

302
00:25:52.640 --> 00:25:56.160
But the Kinross case, and if
you kind of could explain what that

303
00:25:56.359 --> 00:26:03.559
was then what you had found there. Sure, Actually the Kinrass incident itself

304
00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:10.279
is an old case from the fifties
where a UFO was observed flying from Canada

305
00:26:11.519 --> 00:26:15.880
into the United States and so the
jet fighter was dispatched to intercept it,

306
00:26:15.640 --> 00:26:19.400
and it was tracking on quite a
few radar stations and what they saw on

307
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:23.200
radar was the were the two objects, the jet and the UFO emerged on

308
00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:29.079
the screen on the radar screen,
and then the UFO moved off and the

309
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:33.880
the F eighty nine jet was lost. They did the massive search and they

310
00:26:33.880 --> 00:26:38.559
never found the jet. So fast
forward, you know, forty something years

311
00:26:38.640 --> 00:26:45.640
later, or actually even fifty something
years later, we have this alleged dive

312
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.440
company who said, well, we
were in Lake Superior and we were looking

313
00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:55.160
around looking for a shipwrecking mo and
behold, our side scan sonar picked up

314
00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:57.079
this object on the floor. You
know, we think it's the F eighty

315
00:26:57.160 --> 00:27:02.519
nine that was lost because we sent
an ROV and we also see this UFO

316
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:06.279
object near it. And so there
were these sonar scam pictures that were released

317
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.559
on the internet on their website.
And the thing here's the problem is is

318
00:27:10.559 --> 00:27:14.400
when folks make claims like this,
a lot of people leaving, you know,

319
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.440
leading UFO researchers will will not do
proper background checks to make sure that

320
00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:22.119
these are valid claims. It will
just basically swallow a hook line and sinker.

321
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.799
And so it made the rounds of
the internet like wildfire. Everybody was

322
00:27:26.839 --> 00:27:30.240
really excited about it. So I
spent a lot of time, hundreds of

323
00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:34.279
hours trying to validate that the folks
making these claims were even real people,

324
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:40.000
that they were at a real company, and none of it checked out.

325
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.200
And eventually, when when faced with
all the evidence I had amassed, they

326
00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.000
basically shut themselves down. Their website
disappeared and were never heard from them again.

327
00:27:48.640 --> 00:27:53.039
Now it's to me, it's extremely
interesting as to why they even did

328
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.680
this website even pop up to begin
with. These claims were made because it

329
00:27:56.720 --> 00:28:02.960
didn't appear to have any obvious motivation
in terms of, oh, we're going

330
00:28:03.039 --> 00:28:06.119
to make money off of the story, or we're going to make this because

331
00:28:06.119 --> 00:28:08.839
we couldn't really figure out who these
individuals were, so again we're going back

332
00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:15.599
to possible disinformation purposes. Maybe this
was a some agency of a government out

333
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.799
there that was trying to perpetuate the
UFO mess for their own reasons. M

334
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.599
hmm. That's what's interesting about both
of these cases. With a lot of

335
00:28:25.680 --> 00:28:30.359
hoax cases, you know who's doing
the hoaxing. It's typically the people who

336
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:34.880
are sending out the information. But
many times you know who's putting out the

337
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:40.200
information. They're posting it on their
website and there may be doing videos and

338
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:44.839
sending emails and you can talk to
them and before their hoax is revealed.

339
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:49.000
But in the California drone case and
the Kinross case, still nobody knows who

340
00:28:51.240 --> 00:28:59.319
was behind those two things, and
there seemed to be no gain for any

341
00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:07.519
individual exactly there's no obvious money motivator
for why they they were making those claims.

342
00:29:07.839 --> 00:29:11.559
Mm hmm. Now, a lot
of people had talked about in both

343
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.039
cases, and especially with the drones, kind of being a possible, possibly

344
00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:21.519
a viral marketing campaign, and I
never sign any evidence that that was actually

345
00:29:21.559 --> 00:29:26.240
the case. Yeah, there was. There were some rumors early on that

346
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.880
maybe alien were computers, it was
a campaign that they had launched, or

347
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:36.240
there was a viral marketing campaign for
some computer video game or some new sci

348
00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:40.319
fi movie coming out, but all
of those claims pretty much fizzled. We

349
00:29:40.559 --> 00:29:47.359
could never track down any evidence that
it was a viral marketing campaign. Mm

350
00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:51.440
hmmm. A couple of questions coming
from the chat room, and hello to

351
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:56.200
chatters, and thanks for joining,
but one of them, I guess I'll

352
00:29:56.200 --> 00:30:02.440
ask the first one, Steve,
the nature of the beings. I guess

353
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:07.759
we would have to go back.
Do you believe then there are I guess

354
00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.680
the extra restaurant hypothesis? Do you
believe there are possibly extraterrestrials, you know,

355
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:19.920
behind these seemingly intelligently controlled technological devices
that people are seeing buying around.

356
00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.880
Well, I think it's definitely a
possibility it's one of the many hypotheses for

357
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:32.319
what is behind the UFO phenomena.
But at the same time, we also

358
00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:37.400
know that when entities are seeing,
for example, abductions, that when the

359
00:30:37.799 --> 00:30:44.079
witnesses are taken on board what is
allegedly a craft, they're they're told information

360
00:30:44.200 --> 00:30:49.359
that oftentimes doesn't hold to be true. So there's a there's a whole thread

361
00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:52.680
of deception. So so we don't
really know. The bottom line is nobody

362
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.559
really knows. We do know that
folks see entities. We do know that

363
00:30:56.559 --> 00:31:02.039
they're observed on board craft outside of
craft, I mean, these have been

364
00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.400
witnessed for as long as the UFO
phenomena has been around. As far as

365
00:31:06.880 --> 00:31:10.319
their prominence, where they come from, we don't know that. We don't

366
00:31:10.319 --> 00:31:15.440
know whether they're from their extraterrestrials visiting
us from another solar system, or their

367
00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:22.160
time travelers, or their interdimensional travelers. We simply do not know. Yeah,

368
00:31:22.319 --> 00:31:26.160
and that pretty much answers the questions
because this person was asking, you

369
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:30.440
know, essentially, do you if
you believe they were angels or just beings

370
00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:37.359
from other worlds or other dimensions?
And yeah, yeah, and I think

371
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:42.200
that's what I like to argue is
you know where And I'd like to hear

372
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:48.200
your thoughts on this where kind of
the noisy negative is ss Stanton puts it

373
00:31:48.839 --> 00:31:56.160
fail because they purport to be scientists
and following the scientific method. But the

374
00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.279
scientific method doesn't mean you know,
oh, what you saw or what you

375
00:32:00.400 --> 00:32:06.440
claim to have seen is just so
out there that it can't be true,

376
00:32:06.839 --> 00:32:12.480
where the scientific method is more of
holding up that possibility until you can prove

377
00:32:12.559 --> 00:32:20.200
otherwise absolutely. And I think a
lot of folks do not understand the difference

378
00:32:20.200 --> 00:32:27.000
between a skeptic and a debunker.
Skeptic I mean basically move On considers itself

379
00:32:27.039 --> 00:32:30.920
to be a skeptical organization, or
we use a scientific method, one of

380
00:32:30.960 --> 00:32:36.079
the hallmarks of science and skepticism.
I mean, it's very healthy to have

381
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:42.200
a dose of skepticism when investigating any
claims. But the difference between a skeptic

382
00:32:42.279 --> 00:32:45.079
and a debunker. A skeptic is
willing to look at the data, to

383
00:32:45.119 --> 00:32:51.759
actually do their homework and investigate and
research, whereas a debunker is somebody who

384
00:32:51.799 --> 00:32:57.079
just typically because it doesn't fit within
their paradigm, outright dismisses the research that

385
00:32:57.079 --> 00:33:00.519
has been done without doing any research. Themselves. It's basically just a lot

386
00:33:00.519 --> 00:33:06.759
of armchairs like and guessing. And
you know, the bunkers are just basically

387
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:10.920
a group of lazy folks who will
take somebody else's research and just throw it

388
00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:16.119
out the doors because it doesn't fit
within their belief system. M hm.

389
00:33:16.960 --> 00:33:23.440
Another question from the chat was asking
you about the Jonathan Reid case and if

390
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:30.319
you had any opinions or had looked
into that much the Jonathan Reid case.

391
00:33:30.039 --> 00:33:35.599
I personally have not investigated Jonathan Reid's
claims, but I have spoken with a

392
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:40.039
few researchers, and from what I
understand, mister Reed made quite a few

393
00:33:40.079 --> 00:33:47.160
claims that he could not prove mm
hmm. Interesting. And you know you

394
00:33:47.240 --> 00:33:53.240
had talked about the difference between debunkers
and skeptics, and I know that because

395
00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:59.960
there have been, like you said, other researchers who have had strong feelings.

396
00:34:00.000 --> 00:34:04.079
It's about the California drones and about
the the kN rass, you know,

397
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.400
with the radar data and in Mexico
you mentioned in that Mexico case,

398
00:34:07.400 --> 00:34:13.440
and there are some researchers who had
strong feelings about all of those being the

399
00:34:13.559 --> 00:34:15.559
real deal. But of course you
have that for Jonathan Reid for a while

400
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:20.360
too. You know, what would
you say to those people who are saying,

401
00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.559
oh great, you know whenever we
hear from Moffin, they're telling us,

402
00:34:22.559 --> 00:34:29.840
how you know our pet case is
is it's not real? Well,

403
00:34:30.280 --> 00:34:34.000
I would I would say, let's
just compare the data. The problem with

404
00:34:34.079 --> 00:34:37.400
youthology is there's so much infighting and
there and there are so many investigators and

405
00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:42.719
researchers that are odds with each other
personally. It becomes a battle of personalities.

406
00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:47.119
Uh and and really that's ridiculous.
What we're talking about is investigation,

407
00:34:47.360 --> 00:34:53.079
hardcore investigation and hardcore data. So
you know, my thought is like I'm

408
00:34:53.400 --> 00:34:57.760
not or my belief it's I'm not
going to go out and attack somebody or

409
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.880
another utiful researcher personally. You know, I don't care you know what their

410
00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:07.960
background is or or you know if
they were a journalist in a past life,

411
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:13.840
or an investigator or a police detective
or a scientist or you have a

412
00:35:13.880 --> 00:35:16.960
PhD. The bottom line is showing
you the data and showed me the homework

413
00:35:17.000 --> 00:35:20.800
that you've done. And if you've
done the same homework that I've done,

414
00:35:21.440 --> 00:35:24.840
then we can compare apple apples to
apples, but just outwardly dismiss my data

415
00:35:24.960 --> 00:35:30.840
because it's an issue of ego or
personality. That's the problem. That that's

416
00:35:30.880 --> 00:35:36.280
that's where euthology has floundered for the
last sixty years. We can just just

417
00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:39.039
compare data. Yeah, yeah,
and I find that, you know,

418
00:35:39.159 --> 00:35:45.559
even especially with other countries, researchers
from other countries, lots of times their

419
00:35:45.599 --> 00:35:49.679
government and their media are very open
to hearing what they have to say about

420
00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:53.480
UFOs and don't give them the amount
of scrutiny that we get here in the

421
00:35:53.639 --> 00:35:58.599
United States. And you know,
that's why try to tell people it's so

422
00:35:58.679 --> 00:36:02.800
important, but move on. Does
that maybe your case event is real,

423
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.639
but you don't have enough data to
support that. Well, if you don't

424
00:36:07.679 --> 00:36:09.320
have data to support it, what
are you You're not going to be able

425
00:36:09.400 --> 00:36:14.360
to change any minds. If you
get some real data to support and show

426
00:36:14.440 --> 00:36:17.440
that you've got something that is uh, the real deal, then that's something

427
00:36:17.440 --> 00:36:22.159
that you really want to make the
most noise about because then you've got something

428
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:29.280
hopefully that will open people's eyes to
what's going on here. Absolutely, we

429
00:36:29.360 --> 00:36:34.039
have another caller or a caller,
let's see if we can get them on

430
00:36:34.079 --> 00:36:37.000
the line real quick. So is
there a caller on the line. Yes,

431
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:42.719
there is Hello there, Yes,
Hello. What's your name is from?

432
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:49.079
My name is John. I am
the owner of the website called paranormal

433
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:54.199
fifty one dot com. Okay,
And the the events that happened in my

434
00:36:54.280 --> 00:37:00.360
life that cause me to create the
paranormal fifty one dot com project was an

435
00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:07.239
extraterrestrial biological entity siding that I had
when I was in West Texas driving on

436
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:14.320
the highway driving east and I heard
on the I had the passenger side window

437
00:37:14.360 --> 00:37:21.159
open because it was so hot inside, and I decided to stop the truck

438
00:37:21.159 --> 00:37:28.199
because I was hearing these these chirping
sounds just like the the extraterrestrials that were

439
00:37:28.199 --> 00:37:30.599
on the District nine movie. These
chirping, almost like a bullfrog chirping,

440
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:37.480
and it appeared as if they were
like teleporting themselves following my truck, my

441
00:37:37.559 --> 00:37:42.639
Dodge Dakota, my silver Dodge Dakota
that I was driving east to west in

442
00:37:43.440 --> 00:37:49.239
and I heard these these It sounded
just as if it was you know,

443
00:37:49.440 --> 00:37:52.960
brightest day. It's not like you
know, voices inside my mind or anything.

444
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:57.280
But I stopped the truck, got
out of the truck looked in the

445
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.239
direction where I was coming from,
which was west. Then I turned around

446
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:07.360
and there in front of me,
I saw this, this arm that was

447
00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:09.000
less than too way me. I
looked down to the lap and I saw

448
00:38:09.039 --> 00:38:13.440
these circles on its arm, as
if it had some type of biomechanical suit

449
00:38:14.519 --> 00:38:19.480
and uh. And so I was
like, my heart was racing at the

450
00:38:19.519 --> 00:38:22.599
time, and I held out my
arm, my right arm, as if

451
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:24.800
I wanted to, you know,
shake hands with it or something. I

452
00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.400
don't know, but I saw an
arm there. It looked like like as

453
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:34.639
if it had predator like cloaking technology. It was, uh, it had

454
00:38:34.760 --> 00:38:40.920
uh. It was as if like
electrostatic shimmering outline was was uh, yeah,

455
00:38:40.960 --> 00:38:45.960
I remember you told us about this
a bit, Yes, yeah,

456
00:38:45.039 --> 00:38:50.840
But I wanted to get James Perrion's
opinion on or not opinion, but his

457
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:57.639
experience as to if anyone had ever
reported anything like the extraterrestrials that are showing

458
00:38:57.679 --> 00:39:00.599
on District nine in the movie.
I don't know if you've heard of it,

459
00:39:00.679 --> 00:39:07.440
sir, but it's uh, it's
it's it's eerily similar to it sounded

460
00:39:07.480 --> 00:39:13.360
eerily similar to what I heard in
the h on the past or Simondo out

461
00:39:13.360 --> 00:39:16.719
of my truck when I was in
West Texas and I wanted to get your

462
00:39:16.760 --> 00:39:22.039
opinion on that. Well, if
you familiar that with Peter Jackson making the

463
00:39:22.079 --> 00:39:28.119
movie District nine, I'm not actually
familiar with the types of entities that he's

464
00:39:28.159 --> 00:39:30.360
portraying on there. I saw one
of the trailers for the movie, but

465
00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:35.679
I don't think they actually showed one
of the alien creatures, or they did

466
00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:39.920
show some sort of silhouette of it. So I can't comment up in similarity

467
00:39:39.960 --> 00:39:45.079
other than or in the similarity to
the sound, other than maybe if if

468
00:39:45.119 --> 00:39:47.880
your experience is real and and you
witness it, somebody else could have experienced

469
00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:52.800
the same thing, maybe somebody closely
associated with the movie, and maybe they

470
00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:57.159
drew drew on that experience stuff as
the uh, you know, for the

471
00:39:57.320 --> 00:40:00.639
for the creatures that were portrayed.
Yeah, the creatures in the movie are

472
00:40:01.679 --> 00:40:07.679
they almost look like a giant locust
or these giant bug looking creatures that are

473
00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:13.079
you know, about six feet or
something like that. That's so and and

474
00:40:13.119 --> 00:40:19.280
the you know, there are quite
a few UFO incidents from the past where

475
00:40:19.599 --> 00:40:23.519
the entities were described as insect liked
or playing man dislike or in you know,

476
00:40:23.679 --> 00:40:28.599
something of an insectoid type being.
So it's it's definitely not unheard of.

477
00:40:29.679 --> 00:40:35.880
Yeah, stuff like that is reported. Humh. So the move On

478
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:40.719
Symposium coming up here to get more
into that and what's going up on there

479
00:40:40.880 --> 00:40:45.079
from Uh, we had John venture
on and I've had some of the speakers

480
00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:53.079
on before, but this is the
fortieth so uh, you know, what

481
00:40:53.159 --> 00:41:00.199
do you think is significant about that, the fortieth anniversary of MUFAN. Well,

482
00:41:00.519 --> 00:41:05.039
it's definitely a milestone for UFO organizations
or the history of uf organizations.

483
00:41:05.719 --> 00:41:09.960
If we look back in history at
some of the original organizations like Nightcap or

484
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:15.119
APO, we are sort of a
last surviving of these big three organizations.

485
00:41:15.960 --> 00:41:20.679
And I think that's due to the
wisdom and foresight of the early founders Walt

486
00:41:20.719 --> 00:41:24.159
Andris and John Schussler, who knew
that it was important to create a grassroots

487
00:41:24.239 --> 00:41:32.519
organization with decentralized leadership and basically empower
people to go out there and to conduct

488
00:41:32.559 --> 00:41:37.400
investigations of the Mouffon's name, but
giving them the freedom and the flexibility to

489
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:42.679
do that. Look on any sort
of rigid hierarchy, so that in itself,

490
00:41:43.000 --> 00:41:46.840
the organizations organizational structure has survived the
test of time. But I also

491
00:41:46.840 --> 00:41:54.239
think it's significant that we're still here
sixty years after the advent of UFOs and

492
00:41:54.599 --> 00:41:58.719
we're still trying to figure out what
this mystery is all about, that in

493
00:41:58.760 --> 00:42:04.559
itself is an employed and issued and
and why it's important that move On's still

494
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:07.760
here as in existence because we have
an important mission that we have to undertake.

495
00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:13.079
Why do you think Moufon is still
around and the others didn't make it?

496
00:42:15.559 --> 00:42:20.880
Well? I think with APRO it
may have been a cult of personality

497
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:25.639
where a lot of the drive of
the organization came from it from you know,

498
00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:30.840
the Lorenzo's, Uh Jim and Coral
Lorenzen, and when they died,

499
00:42:30.880 --> 00:42:36.079
the organization died with them. And
with NICAP, you know, there are

500
00:42:36.119 --> 00:42:42.840
plenty of rumors that NCAP was infiltrated
by government agents to try to disrupt its

501
00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:45.639
operation and eventually went out of business. Of course, I don't know if

502
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:51.360
those rumors are true or or they
have been substantiated, but we do know

503
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:57.760
they didn't survive very long after they
had a change in leadership. So but

504
00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:00.559
Mouffon has been been around and we're
happy to we're still here and we hope

505
00:43:00.559 --> 00:43:06.840
to continue in the future. What
do you think is really that because one

506
00:43:06.840 --> 00:43:12.639
of the statements and I wanted to
ask you about, is move On being

507
00:43:12.679 --> 00:43:16.480
the largest organization of this type.
I usually say in the United States,

508
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:22.400
but you think in the world,
I would have to say we're the largest

509
00:43:22.480 --> 00:43:29.400
UFO investigative body in the world.
We may not be the largest uful membership

510
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:35.440
organization. I've heard that there's a
Chinese uf organization that has fifty thousand members.

511
00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:37.800
I don't know if that's true or
not, but so we may not

512
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:43.639
be the largest membership, but definitely
the largest UFO investigative body in the world.

513
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:47.960
Yeah, and I think, you
know, that's what makes that move

514
00:43:49.039 --> 00:43:52.119
On so great, as we have
so many people across the country and even

515
00:43:52.159 --> 00:44:01.440
in other countries too, that are
actually hands on investigating. Absolutely, that's

516
00:44:01.480 --> 00:44:06.280
what we do best, is to
go out there and try to substantiate claims

517
00:44:06.320 --> 00:44:12.280
and interview witnesses, collect physical evidence
everything it has to do with field work

518
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:15.960
and boots on the ground and really
trying to get at the phenomena itself.

519
00:44:15.960 --> 00:44:24.679
Yeah. Another question coming from the
chat, he they're asking about abduction.

520
00:44:25.559 --> 00:44:30.920
The abduction phenomenon, and how there
aren't any speakers speaking about abduction at the

521
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:38.039
symposium, so what of our plans
to study that phenomena and help these experiencers

522
00:44:40.599 --> 00:44:45.400
actually move on That's true, we
don't have any speakers that are speaking on

523
00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:49.719
the abduction phenomena at the symposium,
But move On doesn't have an active abduction

524
00:44:49.840 --> 00:44:55.280
research group. It's headed up by
Lester Velez and a stellar team of scientists

525
00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:06.480
and doctors who are basically doing scientific
research on UF abduction witnesses. In fact,

526
00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:13.559
they've they recently solicited a control group
to to work on one of the

527
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:20.840
projects where they're they're basically doing surveys
of abductees. So yeah, we do

528
00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:24.960
have active, active abduction research going
on right this minute. In fact,

529
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:30.360
they are The Abduction group will be
giving a presentation at the symposium to the

530
00:45:30.360 --> 00:45:34.360
move On board and the work they've
done in the last year, and then

531
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.760
hopefully that'll turn into a symposium talk
for the next for the next year of

532
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:42.840
simposium. Well, and for people, because I get that a lot too,

533
00:45:42.880 --> 00:45:45.800
that's one of the questions people ask, Well, we'll find doesn't care

534
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:50.519
about abductees. Well, that's one
of the things I point out is how

535
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:55.719
one of our three Discovery Channel shows
that you were that you were essentially like

536
00:45:55.800 --> 00:46:02.800
the host of uh was on at
that abduction case? Right, Yeah,

537
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:07.920
No, move On definitely cares about
abduction cases, and I don't think a

538
00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:12.239
lot of folks know even the research
we've done in the past. One of

539
00:46:12.239 --> 00:46:17.400
the big mouf On projects on abductions
was the Abduction Transcription Project, where we

540
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:23.079
went out and we partnered up with
a number of abduction researchers, especially those

541
00:46:23.480 --> 00:46:30.840
social workers and psychologists and sociologists who
were doing hypnosis on their patients to try

542
00:46:30.880 --> 00:46:37.800
to uncover their abduction memories, and
they gave the transcriptions of those recorded sessions

543
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:42.280
to move On to transcribe and take
away to take out all the witness information,

544
00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:45.119
so we just had the raw experience. And so we did this for

545
00:46:45.159 --> 00:46:49.639
a number of abduction subjects that we
could try to see they were common threads

546
00:46:50.000 --> 00:46:54.960
to abduction stories, and we recently
had that digitally scanned all of that data

547
00:46:55.039 --> 00:46:59.159
to give to our abduction teams so
they can go through it and try to

548
00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.760
figure out what those threads are.
Yeah, maybe we can talk about you

549
00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:06.880
know, that might be a good
segue into the show. Real quick.

550
00:47:07.039 --> 00:47:12.480
The Discovery Channel show, which was
a pretty cool thing that happened this year,

551
00:47:12.559 --> 00:47:15.239
and that particular case. I thought
that episode. I loved all the

552
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:21.679
episodes, but that episode was particularly
interesting and maybe you can kind of review

553
00:47:21.719 --> 00:47:25.559
that case real quick. Well.
The Yeah, we did three shows.

554
00:47:25.559 --> 00:47:31.599
One of the shows was a case
down in North Carolina where a gentleman was

555
00:47:31.639 --> 00:47:37.159
out fishing on the Cape River with
his friends and they saw some lights come

556
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:42.480
that came down over the river,
and he was off walking through the woods

557
00:47:43.480 --> 00:47:50.440
and he experienced a ship that came
over a craft and possible missing time.

558
00:47:51.239 --> 00:47:55.920
His son had observed some entities walking
through the woods. When he met up

559
00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.719
with the other gentleman down the river, they all became very frightened. They

560
00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.920
got on their trucks and they sped
home. And when he got home later

561
00:48:05.000 --> 00:48:08.320
that night, he encountered an entity
in his backyard. So we went down

562
00:48:08.360 --> 00:48:13.079
there to try to investigate it.
For a number of reasons. Number one,

563
00:48:13.960 --> 00:48:16.320
it was a very compelling story because
it had so many elements to it.

564
00:48:16.679 --> 00:48:20.840
But there were also quite a few
witnesses, so we're able to interview

565
00:48:21.199 --> 00:48:23.559
We were able to interview each witness
separately to try to see if they were

566
00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:29.679
able to back each other stories up. And we did some other testing,

567
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:36.280
some psychological testing as well as a
polygraph exam to try to put all that

568
00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:42.519
data together and come to some conclusion. And basically what we decided was something

569
00:48:42.599 --> 00:48:45.039
very traumatic did happen to these folks. We're not sure what it is that

570
00:48:45.159 --> 00:48:52.719
happened to them, a possible abduction
scenario, and basically, you know,

571
00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:58.960
we were able to substantiate that it
was not a mental illness that was involved,

572
00:48:59.119 --> 00:49:04.159
but that definitely some very strange aspects
of the story. Yeah, the

573
00:49:04.199 --> 00:49:09.280
witness seemed very credible. Didn't he
have some missing time exactly? He claimed

574
00:49:09.280 --> 00:49:12.599
that when he was when he walked
up to the top of the hill when

575
00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.639
he first saw the craft, that
when he walked back down to the river,

576
00:49:15.800 --> 00:49:21.920
that only twenty minutes or thirty minutes
had expired, but his friends had

577
00:49:22.159 --> 00:49:27.000
said that he was gone for three
or four hours. Yeah. Another interesting

578
00:49:27.039 --> 00:49:32.360
aspect I thought of that case or
that show, was that a polygraph test

579
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:42.320
was taken and even though and it
wasn't positive, What did you think of

580
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:45.480
that? Well? I, well, a lot of folks don't know when

581
00:49:45.480 --> 00:49:50.199
they when they watched the show is
that it looks like that the polygraph was

582
00:49:50.239 --> 00:49:52.480
administered at the very end. In
fact, the polygraph was the first thing

583
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:58.840
that was done and it was not
only ad ministered to the primary witness,

584
00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:00.960
but also to his son. And
they didn't show the sun's results on the

585
00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.920
show. I think what we are
determine from the polygraph, at least at

586
00:50:06.960 --> 00:50:12.000
least the polygraph operator thought that there
were some questions that both of them will

587
00:50:12.039 --> 00:50:15.320
not be in truth on and you
know that. I think what that did

588
00:50:15.360 --> 00:50:20.599
is race some red flags for us. But but we don't we don't decide

589
00:50:20.639 --> 00:50:23.840
a case based on a polygraph.
A polygraph is just a tool that that

590
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:30.239
will do that will basically direct the
investigation where to go next, and and

591
00:50:30.280 --> 00:50:34.320
also just to race some red flags
that we need that need to be addressed.

592
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:37.559
So so we didn't we don't necessarily
put a whole lot of faith in

593
00:50:37.599 --> 00:50:40.920
the polygraph that we're going to use
it as as a as a direction tool.

594
00:50:43.159 --> 00:50:45.840
Well, what I've found, and
it seems difficult, is polygraph tests

595
00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:53.760
are very cut and dry, yes
or no questions and with an a that

596
00:50:53.960 --> 00:51:01.119
d and often people I've worked with
who seem to have enough evidence or to

597
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:07.599
show me some incredible stuff to make
me think that they were really experiencing something.

598
00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:12.880
They often, just like many good
witnesses, don't know what it is

599
00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:17.960
they experienced, and they're very readily
they're very open to telling you, I

600
00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:22.880
don't know what happened to me.
Here's what I remember, here's you know,

601
00:51:23.000 --> 00:51:28.000
the results, here may be the
evidence of what might have happened to

602
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:30.960
me. And often they're asking us, what do you think happened to me?

603
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:34.599
So it seems difficult for these guys
to be able to go on a

604
00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:37.800
polygraph and answer a yes or no
to something they don't even know what happened

605
00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:45.159
exactly. And it could also be
the trauma of the event itself is a

606
00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:50.559
few results of the exam. So
so there's a lot more a lot more

607
00:51:50.559 --> 00:51:54.840
research needs to be done from from
competence scientists on whether or not a polygraph

608
00:51:55.039 --> 00:52:00.199
can be used in such in such
a situation, But we don't place a

609
00:52:00.239 --> 00:52:05.079
lot of emphasis on it, despite
what the showed me may of show,

610
00:52:05.159 --> 00:52:07.559
and I think there was artistic license
on the part of the production company.

611
00:52:08.719 --> 00:52:13.159
I did not did not place a
lot of emphasis on the polygraph in this

612
00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:17.280
case. Yeah, I think they
did a good job actually representing your opinion,

613
00:52:17.320 --> 00:52:22.559
and what you shared with us here
is that you're still the polygraph didn't

614
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:29.800
really have that big of an effect
on your feeling towards this witness who has

615
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:35.280
seemed very credible, very down to
earth, and had multiple witnesses of at

616
00:52:35.400 --> 00:52:40.559
least these lights in the sky.
Right. So, and then the other

617
00:52:40.599 --> 00:52:43.800
case that you guys covered on the
show, well, of course you did

618
00:52:43.880 --> 00:52:46.039
Mexico and we talked a bit about
that. Well, let's talk some more

619
00:52:46.039 --> 00:52:51.920
about Mexico because that was kind of
rough, I mean, just to kind

620
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.239
of clear the air. And from
what I understand, what were your intentions

621
00:52:54.280 --> 00:53:00.079
when you guys went out there to
investigate these Mexico cases. Well, the

622
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:06.960
intention was to give the show an
international flavor. The show was termed UFOs

623
00:53:07.000 --> 00:53:08.920
over Earth, not just the United
States. So we are trying to show

624
00:53:08.960 --> 00:53:14.960
that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena,
which they are, and Mexico has been

625
00:53:15.000 --> 00:53:17.760
reported to be a hot bet of
activity, and so we decided to go

626
00:53:17.800 --> 00:53:22.639
stop for a border to investigate.
But one thing about doing a TV show,

627
00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:28.559
you can't call these crapped in on
demand. So it's not like Ghost

628
00:53:28.599 --> 00:53:31.119
Honey, where you can walk into
an old house and it creaks and somebody

629
00:53:31.360 --> 00:53:35.880
bumps the table, and all of
a sudden you have a show you really,

630
00:53:36.280 --> 00:53:38.239
you know, things don't show up
when you want them to. So

631
00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:44.079
we had to go and investigate the
cases that were recent down there. The

632
00:53:44.480 --> 00:53:47.440
one case that was very compelling for
me was the one in the Scala where

633
00:53:47.480 --> 00:53:52.559
a whole town had witnessed a UFO
earlier that year, or at least a

634
00:53:52.679 --> 00:53:58.320
light, a strange light that caused
a direct electromagnetic effect on the town.

635
00:53:58.519 --> 00:54:04.039
And we know that because there's video
shows this light and when it grew in

636
00:54:04.079 --> 00:54:07.360
lumin essence, the power in the
town went down, so you could see

637
00:54:07.360 --> 00:54:12.199
the direct electromagnetic effect. So that
was very compelling. And then of course

638
00:54:12.239 --> 00:54:16.400
there were these photos that were floated
through hunting Malison's office, very very clear

639
00:54:16.440 --> 00:54:21.199
photos, and we wanted to investigate
those as well, so we went down

640
00:54:21.239 --> 00:54:24.000
there, and at the time,
those were the most current cases we could

641
00:54:24.079 --> 00:54:31.000
investigate, so that's what we jumped
on. And so you felt that there

642
00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:37.159
was possibly some meet here, there
are some interesting stuff that you might be

643
00:54:37.159 --> 00:54:44.480
able to discover something anomalous. Hopefully, Oh absolutely, I mean that's always

644
00:54:44.480 --> 00:54:47.960
the goal, is to try to
find compelling evidence that something real and strange

645
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:53.159
has happened in the sky war.
We have the video which showed something strange,

646
00:54:54.119 --> 00:54:58.800
but we also had a newspaper article
that came out from a local newspaper

647
00:54:59.679 --> 00:55:04.320
that that really really embellished the story. Not only did people see lights,

648
00:55:04.360 --> 00:55:08.000
but they saw, you know,
their cars were dying, their motorcycles were

649
00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:12.360
dying, their cameras didn't work when
they were trying to take photos of this

650
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:15.559
light, and creatures were seen.
And when we got down there and we

651
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:19.320
did our investigation, what we figured
out was all of those elements, those

652
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.920
sensational elements of the story were not
true. We couldn't find any witnesses to

653
00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:29.880
any of those events, but the
whole town had indeed seen the light and

654
00:55:29.920 --> 00:55:35.639
there was a directly electromagnetic effect.
So once we stripped away the sensational parts

655
00:55:35.639 --> 00:55:37.679
of the story were left with maybe
something they had to do with the power

656
00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:43.960
grid itself, and that's what that
was basically our conclusion that there was a

657
00:55:44.000 --> 00:55:47.559
power event. Yeah, I know, you know, when I heard that

658
00:55:47.599 --> 00:55:52.480
you guys were going out there,
it's really excited because of course I correspond

659
00:55:52.559 --> 00:56:00.800
with I May and some of his
associates occasionally, and it was a total

660
00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:04.559
bummer, of course, And I
think you probably felt the same way that

661
00:56:04.920 --> 00:56:08.760
you know, these cases didn't pan
out sure absolutely, I mean there.

662
00:56:08.800 --> 00:56:13.280
I mean, we know just from
from experience in the literature and all of

663
00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:19.760
the different cases in our files that
that things happen that we can't explain once

664
00:56:19.840 --> 00:56:22.719
thoroughly investigated. So we were hoping
for such a case. Uh, you

665
00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:25.800
know, We're hoping that this case
would be as as as good as any

666
00:56:25.840 --> 00:56:30.480
of the major cases that appear in
the UFO history. It will become a

667
00:56:30.519 --> 00:56:39.960
classic. But unfortunately didn't happen.
Yeah, And fortunately another bummer, of

668
00:56:40.039 --> 00:56:45.320
course, is that there were a
lot of people coming out and saying Movefin

669
00:56:45.519 --> 00:56:52.239
was trying to make Latin Americans or
Mexico and Mexican eufologists look bad or something

670
00:56:52.400 --> 00:56:57.800
like this, sure, which which
in itself is ridiculous. So I'm a

671
00:56:57.840 --> 00:57:04.440
Hispanic heritage, so I have no
desire to try to to mean anybody of

672
00:57:04.440 --> 00:57:07.760
of Hispanic lineage, And that was
definitely not our intention going down there.

673
00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:10.679
Our intention to going down there was
simply to investigate and find out what the

674
00:57:10.719 --> 00:57:15.639
truth was and simple, yeah,
which you know, Ruben Uriarte and I

675
00:57:15.679 --> 00:57:20.119
were talking quite a bit before the
show came out, because he was kind

676
00:57:20.119 --> 00:57:27.320
of bracing me for the unfortunate,
you know, situation what had been discovered,

677
00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:32.800
or that these cases didn't pan out. And he of course has a

678
00:57:32.840 --> 00:57:38.559
Hispanic background, and and you might
not know it from my name Alejandro Rojas,

679
00:57:38.639 --> 00:57:45.320
but I actually have Hispanic background too. But so we're definitely on.

680
00:57:45.679 --> 00:57:51.440
You know, Ruben and I have
certainly talked about ways to get you know,

681
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:57.639
more Mexican uphologists and Hispanics involved with
muf ON. I know you worked

682
00:57:57.639 --> 00:58:00.480
on that with Ruben, so it
was kind of you know, I can

683
00:58:00.519 --> 00:58:05.480
see, especially with Ruben, and
I think with you too, a little

684
00:58:05.519 --> 00:58:10.639
hurtful, you know, a little
bit of personal there. When people make

685
00:58:10.679 --> 00:58:15.119
claims like that, well, I
mean I think they'd be. In this

686
00:58:15.159 --> 00:58:17.440
field, you have to have a
thick skin, so I didn't, and

687
00:58:17.480 --> 00:58:22.119
I got a pretty thick skin.
But I think what the shows again goes

688
00:58:22.159 --> 00:58:25.239
back to what I alluded to earlier
about the state of euthology and in this

689
00:58:25.360 --> 00:58:30.599
infighting. And for some reason,
some UFO researchers, when they can't attack

690
00:58:30.639 --> 00:58:34.800
your data, they'll attack you personally, which is unfortunate. Because that doesn't

691
00:58:34.840 --> 00:58:38.159
need to happen, and I think
that's what you're seeing. Yeah, that

692
00:58:38.360 --> 00:58:44.719
is a total bummy bummer someone in
here. And this is maybe a good

693
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:49.880
question to bring up too. And
do you know, I don't know if

694
00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:52.119
you get this so much, but
you know, I know some of these

695
00:58:52.199 --> 00:58:54.519
questions, of course, are a
little critical of move from. But I

696
00:58:54.599 --> 00:58:59.119
answered I get these questions a lot, and of course, so in the

697
00:58:59.239 --> 00:59:04.400
chat here, I have a few
questions coming across the chat like that,

698
00:59:04.519 --> 00:59:07.360
and I like to answer these questions
because hopefully, you know, they understand

699
00:59:07.440 --> 00:59:14.880
that we're very open and that there
aren't any secrets or big conspiracy they have

700
00:59:14.960 --> 00:59:16.920
to be afraid of when it comes
to move On. But one of the

701
00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:22.280
people in the chat asked, where
is the bulk of Moufon's money going.

702
00:59:23.519 --> 00:59:30.679
The bulk of Moufon's money is actually
going to putting our journal. I think

703
00:59:30.679 --> 00:59:36.199
folks think that that we're this huge
money making operation, when in fact we're

704
00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:39.800
not. We're a nonprofit organization,
so most of our money goes back into

705
00:59:39.840 --> 00:59:45.239
services either for our members or for
the public itself, in terms of education,

706
00:59:45.400 --> 00:59:49.559
in terms of our website. So
yeah, we don't you know,

707
00:59:49.760 --> 00:59:53.880
we make a small profit as a
nonprofit each year, and anybody can go

708
00:59:53.920 --> 01:00:00.000
and download our latest tax return and
see exactly how we spend our money.

709
01:00:00.119 --> 01:00:05.920
That's all very much public record.
So you know, we don't you know,

710
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.559
we're out here to make a profit. We are a nonprofit organization,

711
01:00:07.639 --> 01:00:13.079
and we're here because we have a
mission to accomplish. Yeah, and I

712
01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.360
think that's the big message, and
that's what I tell people, you know,

713
01:00:16.159 --> 01:00:21.400
do you A lot of people think
we have this humongous budget, but

714
01:00:21.559 --> 01:00:25.880
it's very tiny. And if anybody
out there has ever had a small group

715
01:00:25.920 --> 01:00:32.280
where you print actual print a journal
or even a newsletter, it's expensive.

716
01:00:32.440 --> 01:00:37.400
It's very expensive. And forty five
dollars a year does that even cover the

717
01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:44.239
expense for one person's journal? It
covers it, but barely. It's you

718
01:00:44.280 --> 01:00:49.320
know, again, printing costs are
going high. I've gone up quite a

719
01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.599
bit, as well as just postage
in general. So you know, a

720
01:00:52.599 --> 01:00:53.920
lot of folks say, why don't
you just put out an electronic copy of

721
01:00:53.960 --> 01:00:59.519
your journal, But we actually have
a lot of members that would prefer printed

722
01:00:59.559 --> 01:01:01.599
copies, So we're doing We're here
for our membership, we're here for the

723
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:07.360
public and so we're going to stick
to what we do best. Mm hmmm.

724
01:01:07.880 --> 01:01:12.039
You know, it's interesting that you
mentioned a lot of people wanting a

725
01:01:12.079 --> 01:01:15.519
printed copy too, which I do. It's very nice to have a printed

726
01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:20.599
copy, you know, you can
put that on your in your office or

727
01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:23.639
in your you know, on your
coffee table and people can look at it.

728
01:01:24.119 --> 01:01:30.760
But I also found this interesting.
When I joined MUFON, I thought

729
01:01:30.800 --> 01:01:36.400
it would be twenty somethings like I
was when I joined, you know,

730
01:01:36.599 --> 01:01:40.239
I thought it would be I just
it was completely different than what I had

731
01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:44.559
thought. But when I walked in
there, I found there to be a

732
01:01:44.559 --> 01:01:49.119
lot of baby boomers, a lot
of retirees, and a lot of people

733
01:01:49.239 --> 01:01:55.400
who were professors and engineers and retired
police officers. That to me was really

734
01:01:55.440 --> 01:02:01.599
shocking. Did you find that interesting
when you join to move On? Sure?

735
01:02:01.599 --> 01:02:06.920
Absolutely. I mean, obviously we
have so many folks within the organization

736
01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:10.880
that are consultants who are PhDs,
well known in their field, a number

737
01:02:10.880 --> 01:02:15.519
of research special it's very well known
in their field. Number of professionals from

738
01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.320
all walks of life. So that
definitely impressed me as well. Obviously,

739
01:02:20.360 --> 01:02:23.159
all these people aren't wasting their time
here. There's something real that this phenomena.

740
01:02:23.239 --> 01:02:28.519
Otherwise these folks wouldn't be involved.
So that really intrigued me as well

741
01:02:28.559 --> 01:02:32.400
that this was the organization that I
need to be a part of. And

742
01:02:32.480 --> 01:02:37.760
So when was it that you first
became aware of MoveOn and then what led

743
01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:44.519
you to eventually joining. I actually
learned about move On when I was living

744
01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:47.960
in Florida in the late nineties.
I had just gone out of the military,

745
01:02:49.199 --> 01:02:52.559
actually early nineties. I just got
out of the military and was living

746
01:02:52.599 --> 01:02:58.280
in Tallahossee, Florida, when that
story broke about the six young soldiers who

747
01:02:58.320 --> 01:03:02.960
went a wall from their base and
went to Golf breezecause they were searching for

748
01:03:04.079 --> 01:03:07.880
UFOs and one of them actually went
to the or was trying to attend the

749
01:03:07.079 --> 01:03:13.119
Moufon symposium in Pensacola that year.
So that's the first I have heard of

750
01:03:13.159 --> 01:03:16.360
the word MOUFA or the organization.
When I moved to Colorado in ninety six,

751
01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:21.519
that's when I decided to look them
up and found a local chapter and

752
01:03:21.639 --> 01:03:27.360
I joined. And I guess,
even to back up a little further,

753
01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:32.760
what then got you involved with this
field to begin with? You know,

754
01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:37.800
I've Alejandra I've been interested in all
my life. I can remember back to

755
01:03:37.800 --> 01:03:40.639
when I was age eleven. I
have to thank my mom for this,

756
01:03:40.679 --> 01:03:45.039
because she subscribed to all the tabloid
publications, the National Inquirer and the Star

757
01:03:45.199 --> 01:03:50.119
and the Globe, and fascinated me
some of the stories that were in there.

758
01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.760
Even though you know, nowadays people
would look at the tabloids and go,

759
01:03:52.960 --> 01:03:57.800
none of this is true. But
back in those days, especially the

760
01:03:57.880 --> 01:04:02.280
National inquir they did real investigation UFOs. Bob Pratt, one of the you

761
01:04:02.320 --> 01:04:05.880
know, prominent UFO researchers, worked
for the National Inquirer, and they would

762
01:04:05.880 --> 01:04:11.920
send them out on assignments and to
verify facts and just like a true UFO

763
01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:15.920
investigator. So that intrigued me.
Back then, I actually started clicking out

764
01:04:15.960 --> 01:04:21.039
old tabloid articles about aliens and craft
and you name it, and have my

765
01:04:21.079 --> 01:04:25.079
own little news clicking collection going on. So I really started at a very

766
01:04:25.119 --> 01:04:30.840
early age. Cool. And then
so at what point did you figure I

767
01:04:30.920 --> 01:04:38.199
need to put my efforts and spend
my time in this. Actually it was

768
01:04:38.760 --> 01:04:44.880
when I read the Condon Committee report. You know, folks read the Common

769
01:04:44.880 --> 01:04:48.239
Committee report. University Cola Will put
it out in nineteen sixty nine. If

770
01:04:48.239 --> 01:04:54.079
you read the summary where Edward conn
instead that nothing has come of investigation of

771
01:04:54.119 --> 01:04:59.320
the UFOs that would contribute anything anymore
to scientific knowledge, you'd go away thinking,

772
01:04:59.360 --> 01:05:01.119
okay, with a the waste of
my time in my life. But

773
01:05:01.199 --> 01:05:04.360
if you read the body of data, the number of cases in there that

774
01:05:04.440 --> 01:05:10.880
they investigated but could not explain,
really good cases radar data, radar visual

775
01:05:12.119 --> 01:05:15.599
UFOs being chased by military jets,
you walk away thinking, well, these

776
01:05:15.679 --> 01:05:20.639
folks ignored some real significant data and
there's something to this and it begs to

777
01:05:20.679 --> 01:05:26.559
be investigated. Yeah. I mean, when you read the Condon Report,

778
01:05:26.639 --> 01:05:31.039
which people you can get that online, it's actually a skeptic organization that has

779
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:38.400
it posts in its entirety. But
when you read that purport, it seems

780
01:05:38.440 --> 01:05:42.480
as though Condon, when he came
up with that conclusion, didn't even read

781
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:48.519
the entirety of the report. And
some people argue that he didn't. More

782
01:05:48.559 --> 01:05:56.039
than likely he didn't he or if
he did, he didn't really agree anyway.

783
01:05:56.079 --> 01:06:00.079
He was very prejudiced in his beliefs, and he did the service to

784
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:05.199
science from that point of view because
he didn't he didn't take it from an

785
01:06:05.280 --> 01:06:10.840
unbiased perspective he was. He was
basically or his mind was already made up

786
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:14.880
in terms of what his conclusions were
gonna be. But you know, we

787
01:06:14.920 --> 01:06:16.960
can't. We can blame it.
We're Condon for that. But at the

788
01:06:16.960 --> 01:06:21.519
same time, the report, the
data still there is anybody with a critical

789
01:06:21.559 --> 01:06:26.280
mind can if they read the entire
report, will probably walk away with the

790
01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:30.360
same conclusion that I came to,
which is there's something here, there's some

791
01:06:30.400 --> 01:06:33.719
significance here. Yeah. I help
people read that report, and then I've

792
01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:41.239
read you know, key host books, and he does a great job following

793
01:06:41.239 --> 01:06:45.199
the history of what had happened during
that period of time because he was trying

794
01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.519
to assist with the Condon Committee and
demonstrating and proving that, in fact,

795
01:06:49.639 --> 01:06:54.800
just exactly what you had said,
that Condon had his mind made up before

796
01:06:54.840 --> 01:07:01.039
he even went into this thing exactly. This is kind of a funny post.

797
01:07:01.079 --> 01:07:04.920
I got admitt. You know,
we've got a great people in the

798
01:07:05.039 --> 01:07:09.719
chat, but we have one guy
that comes in here. He calls himself

799
01:07:09.800 --> 01:07:14.280
pastor Pat and every time he comes
in I can't help but mention him to

800
01:07:14.400 --> 01:07:17.000
be such a funny guy. He's, you know, talking about obsu the

801
01:07:17.119 --> 01:07:23.760
UFOs are and stuff like that,
and he talks about UFO witnesses drink rum

802
01:07:24.079 --> 01:07:28.719
and they were on rum. So
he asked us if mufan would maybe come

803
01:07:28.800 --> 01:07:34.800
up with our own brand of rum. No, I'm not sure, really

804
01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:38.559
sure about that. I know Dan
Atkroyd has his own brand of vodka.

805
01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:42.079
But and he's a good supporter,
a big supporter of Moveline, But I

806
01:07:42.079 --> 01:07:45.840
think we'll leave it at that.
Yeah. Yeah, that he had a

807
01:07:45.880 --> 01:07:50.400
great video out recently where you probably
saw he's promoting his vodka and someone asked

808
01:07:50.480 --> 01:07:55.239
him about UFOs and he had a
you know, kind of a lengthy answer

809
01:07:55.320 --> 01:07:59.000
about looking into it and how you
know they're real and he's looking into it

810
01:07:59.039 --> 01:08:01.800
and all of this stuff. Yeah. Dan's a great guy. We had

811
01:08:03.039 --> 01:08:06.480
had lunch with him in La earlier
this year and he's just a real personable

812
01:08:06.519 --> 01:08:11.280
guy. So we're really happy that
he's part of the organization. Yeah.

813
01:08:11.280 --> 01:08:14.960
A lot of people ask, you
know, what is Dan Aykroyd's rule in

814
01:08:15.079 --> 01:08:21.359
move on? Dan is basically you
know, he he's a big supporter of

815
01:08:21.439 --> 01:08:26.319
moufun as an organization, and he's
he supports our mission. Uh, he's

816
01:08:26.359 --> 01:08:30.439
basically our Hollywood consultant. So,
uh you know, if we if we

817
01:08:30.520 --> 01:08:35.960
want to talk to somebody that's uh
in in in the Hollywood star or celebrity,

818
01:08:36.000 --> 01:08:40.119
will less Dan to do the introductions
for us. That's what he does

819
01:08:40.159 --> 01:08:44.960
for us. Mm hmm yeah,
great advisor and that were you. Have

820
01:08:45.119 --> 01:08:50.399
you seen his two hour or so
kind of just like a lengthy interview that

821
01:08:50.479 --> 01:09:00.640
David Sereda put out the the the
Uncut video. Yeah, yeah, yes,

822
01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:03.439
I did watch it quite a while
ago. Yeah. I thought that

823
01:09:03.560 --> 01:09:10.960
was really impressive, as Dan Accord
would certainly very well versed, more so

824
01:09:11.000 --> 01:09:15.279
than many of the people I meet
in this field and the history of everything

825
01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:18.439
going on. Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, when you talk to him

826
01:09:18.479 --> 01:09:25.279
in person, he can quote UFO
history in major UFO cases and those major

827
01:09:25.359 --> 01:09:30.960
UFO researchers. He's very well versed
in the field. Another question from the

828
01:09:30.119 --> 01:09:36.640
chat and the interesting question as anybody
reported as zeno morph the type of creature

829
01:09:36.720 --> 01:09:44.000
that was seen in the movie Alien, the movie Alien, Oh, the

830
01:09:44.039 --> 01:09:49.880
real nasty creatures? Yeah, well, I haven't heard anybody describe it in

831
01:09:50.279 --> 01:09:55.720
you know, the same characteristics,
but I think probably the closest would be

832
01:09:55.720 --> 01:10:01.560
the reptilian type entities that folks off
of report, but typically they're not bursting

833
01:10:01.560 --> 01:10:08.600
out of your chest or laid eggs. Yeah no, nothing that comes close

834
01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:14.840
to alien. Yeah, yeah,
I haven't seen anything like that. Now,

835
01:10:15.960 --> 01:10:21.840
what are the entity types the reports
that you see most? Well,

836
01:10:21.880 --> 01:10:26.600
actually they vary. I mean,
I think most folks think of the little

837
01:10:26.600 --> 01:10:30.239
alien grays when they think of aliens. But mouf On, actually I shouldn't

838
01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:33.920
say mouf On. One of MUFON's
members had bloat your like the believe that

839
01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:39.640
the ways pronounce his name. Back
in the very early days, produced a

840
01:10:39.720 --> 01:10:45.479
catalog of the different entities or humanoids
that were that we're seeing. And you

841
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:47.479
can actually see some of those types
in our in our Field Investigator manual.

842
01:10:47.520 --> 01:10:50.319
But they come in all shapes and
sizes. If you if you review this

843
01:10:50.399 --> 01:10:58.760
catalog of of what entities are describing
everything from very human like or human or

844
01:10:59.600 --> 01:11:04.840
creatures to look very human, to
those that are insectoid, to you know,

845
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:08.800
others that look like the Mitchell and
man. I mean, they just

846
01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:12.960
come in all shapes and sizes.
So to me, it's interesting because I

847
01:11:13.079 --> 01:11:18.439
find the reports that, especially modern
day reports, those folks that report very

848
01:11:18.439 --> 01:11:25.079
atypical creatures, not the traditional grays
that you see in the media or on

849
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:30.239
TV, but the things that are
varied are very different. To me.

850
01:11:30.319 --> 01:11:33.600
It actually lends more credibility because if
somebody were to if somebody really wanted to

851
01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:38.800
make up a story, you know, they were typically wanted to use what

852
01:11:38.840 --> 01:11:42.680
everybody expects aliens to look like or
what they see in the media. So

853
01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:49.039
the atypical reports in me are very
very interesting. Yeah, and you know,

854
01:11:49.119 --> 01:11:57.079
are there some of those cases that
you think perhaps could be genuine.

855
01:11:58.279 --> 01:12:02.159
Actually the case in North Carolina we
talked about earlier, the way the principal

856
01:12:02.199 --> 01:12:08.840
witness described those creatures was very atypical. You described them as having some sort

857
01:12:08.880 --> 01:12:15.000
of exoskeleton skin on that was translucent, or exoskeleton food that was translucent,

858
01:12:15.079 --> 01:12:19.159
and they had a face mask that
I'd never seen described before. So yeah,

859
01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:24.800
that was interesting in itself. Yeah, well, here's a good segue

860
01:12:24.840 --> 01:12:30.479
into you know what I wanted to
get back into. Someone asked, you

861
01:12:30.520 --> 01:12:34.880
know, if you could give a
teaser for this symposium, maybe some of

862
01:12:35.319 --> 01:12:40.319
you know what your presentation is going
to be about and some of the other

863
01:12:40.359 --> 01:12:46.279
presentations that will have that you're excited
about. Sure, Actually I can tell

864
01:12:46.319 --> 01:12:51.399
them a little bit about my own
research. I've been doing some extensive research

865
01:12:51.439 --> 01:12:56.279
into the very early days of UFOs, from the time period of nineteen forty

866
01:12:56.279 --> 01:13:00.760
six to nineteen forty seven, and
what I found is actually some very intriguing

867
01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:09.520
newspaper articles from nineteen forty seven,
two weeks prior to Kenneth Arnold, there

868
01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:16.039
was rumors that the United States had
a top secret weapon that outrivaled the atomic

869
01:13:16.119 --> 01:13:21.920
bomb, and you know, the
press went wild with speculation what could this

870
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:27.000
weapon be? And we've thought the
atomic bomb was it? And what could

871
01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:31.000
possibly be more powerful than that?
And so as I started, you know,

872
01:13:31.479 --> 01:13:34.960
drilling down or doing some more research
into this very intriguing story, I

873
01:13:34.960 --> 01:13:41.760
started to see a pattern emerge that
leads me to believe that there was no

874
01:13:41.840 --> 01:13:46.840
such weapon, but that there were
certain agencies in the government that were putting

875
01:13:47.279 --> 01:13:53.359
this story out there to try to
make the Russians the Soviets at the time

876
01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:57.159
think that UFOs were American, that
they were an American top secret weapon.

877
01:13:58.199 --> 01:14:01.920
And I had some very good information
I think will show that pattern. Now,

878
01:14:02.640 --> 01:14:05.279
the real question would be, well, why would they want to do

879
01:14:05.319 --> 01:14:09.319
that, Why would they want the
Russians to think it was ours? Well,

880
01:14:09.319 --> 01:14:12.199
there's a number of reasons why that
could be. It could be for

881
01:14:12.279 --> 01:14:16.279
counterintelligence reasons. We knew that we
were very heavily infiltrated by Stovie'd espionage at

882
01:14:16.319 --> 01:14:21.560
the time, So one way to
unmask spies is to put some very intriguing

883
01:14:21.560 --> 01:14:28.000
out information out there and see who
becomes interested in it. Another reason could

884
01:14:28.000 --> 01:14:31.960
be for deterrence. We were afraid
that the Russians were on the war path,

885
01:14:32.039 --> 01:14:34.680
and so we wanted them to think
that we had something they didn't,

886
01:14:35.079 --> 01:14:39.880
even if they did have some stolen
atomic knowledge. So there's a number of

887
01:14:39.920 --> 01:14:45.119
reasons why that could have happened,
but I'd like to prove it and like

888
01:14:45.199 --> 01:14:47.920
to prove that that was what was
going on. Now, that doesn't detract

889
01:14:47.960 --> 01:14:51.880
at all from the fact that maybe
folks were seeing real, real UFOs flying

890
01:14:51.920 --> 01:14:59.079
around, but that maybe these agencies
were using that for their own purposes,

891
01:14:59.119 --> 01:15:04.119
which goes back to like earlier recipitions
that you know, the UFO field has

892
01:15:04.159 --> 01:15:10.000
been used and abused throughout the years
by these various intelligence agencies for their very

893
01:15:10.039 --> 01:15:13.560
for their own purposes, and I'd
like to show show that that was a

894
01:15:13.560 --> 01:15:16.760
pattern from the very to you know, mm hmmm, I think that's really

895
01:15:16.760 --> 01:15:21.039
interesting, and I think it's cool, you know, I think that's there's

896
01:15:21.079 --> 01:15:25.439
not a lot of people, researchers, especially no one, you know,

897
01:15:25.520 --> 01:15:32.920
particularly focused on uncovering disinformation programs,
and it seems to be some fairly low

898
01:15:32.960 --> 01:15:36.720
hanging fruit, you know, that
you could at least prove that there have

899
01:15:36.920 --> 01:15:45.840
been these disinformation projects throughout history where
they're trying to make the public or like,

900
01:15:45.840 --> 01:15:47.960
like in this case, the Russians
believe one thing or another, and

901
01:15:48.079 --> 01:15:56.319
that using the UFO phenomena as as
a tool for that. Well, it's

902
01:15:56.439 --> 01:16:00.680
very possible that the that the government
we want to use that term, or

903
01:16:00.680 --> 01:16:05.039
whoever these authority figures are or have
been throughout the years, they themselves don't

904
01:16:05.079 --> 01:16:09.479
have a clue what the UFO phenomena
is about. They don't understand it.

905
01:16:09.560 --> 01:16:14.479
They can't put their arms around it
either, But that doesn't stop them from

906
01:16:14.560 --> 01:16:17.560
using it for their own purposes.
Uh Like. I like to think back

907
01:16:17.600 --> 01:16:21.960
to that episode of The X Files
where the couples driving down the country road

908
01:16:23.520 --> 01:16:27.800
and the triangle craft comes out of
nowhere and abducts them, and these little

909
01:16:27.800 --> 01:16:30.199
gray aliens come out and take them
out of their car and then in the

910
01:16:30.239 --> 01:16:33.880
next scene is very large. It's
much larger. UFO comes down and abducts

911
01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:39.079
the Gray Aliens and the humans,
and then later on in the in the

912
01:16:39.159 --> 01:16:42.920
in the show, they show the
Gray Aliens being unmasked as Air Force guys

913
01:16:42.960 --> 01:16:46.960
in disguise. So you know,
the real question is who's emulating who.

914
01:16:48.039 --> 01:16:53.119
There's a real phenomena out there that
is there. It's always been with us,

915
01:16:53.640 --> 01:16:58.119
it continues to be with us.
But these agencies, with with all

916
01:16:58.159 --> 01:17:01.520
of the resources they have and the
money they can put into intelligence operations,

917
01:17:01.600 --> 01:17:06.600
are are using it for their own
their own purposes. Yeah, I love

918
01:17:06.640 --> 01:17:10.800
that you brought up that episode because
I bring that one up a lot also

919
01:17:10.880 --> 01:17:15.640
because it's one of my favorites.
It's hilarious, but it goes over a

920
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:18.079
lot of these themes too. They
had some men in black guys, you

921
01:17:18.119 --> 01:17:23.199
know, they had Jesse Ventura within
it, I think telling them, Yeah,

922
01:17:23.439 --> 01:17:28.000
the President Jimmy Carter did not see
a UFO. He mistaken Venus for

923
01:17:28.079 --> 01:17:32.159
a UFO, and all these these
funny, weird quirks. But that's a

924
01:17:32.199 --> 01:17:40.079
good one too, that these guys
masquerading to be Grayly and subducting people were

925
01:17:40.119 --> 01:17:47.399
abducted themselves, right, Yeah,
that's that's a really interesting episode. So

926
01:17:47.880 --> 01:17:53.399
I think that sounds very cool.
I can't wait to see your entire talk,

927
01:17:53.520 --> 01:17:56.600
and worst case, if I'm busy
during that time, I'll be able

928
01:17:56.680 --> 01:18:01.800
to buy it, which is always
great about the symposiums to watch it at

929
01:18:01.840 --> 01:18:06.880
my leisure. But what are some
of the other talks going on that you'd

930
01:18:06.920 --> 01:18:14.880
like to mention or that you're excited
to see. Well, we have some

931
01:18:14.920 --> 01:18:18.439
great speakers of the symposium. I'm
really excited to see what, For example,

932
01:18:19.479 --> 01:18:24.680
Kevin Randall talks about. He's talking
about how science can be brought the

933
01:18:24.680 --> 01:18:27.840
bear on the UFO problem. It's
been discussed many times before, but I

934
01:18:27.840 --> 01:18:31.680
think he has a pretty interesting approach
to how to use a scientific method to

935
01:18:32.640 --> 01:18:36.520
to go out there and do some
serious research. So I'm looking forward to

936
01:18:36.600 --> 01:18:45.399
his talk. We also have Jeffrey
Bennett who's going to be talking about UFOs

937
01:18:45.439 --> 01:18:49.079
but from a science perspective in other
words, you know, he he wants

938
01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:53.520
to focus on the aspect of,
yes, there are civilizations out there in

939
01:18:53.520 --> 01:18:57.239
the universe, so UFOs are a
possibility. He doesn't claim the UFOs have

940
01:18:57.359 --> 01:19:00.279
arrived or extraterrestrials have arrived. He
wants focus and I think what we all

941
01:19:00.319 --> 01:19:04.479
believe that yes, there's life out
there. So I'm looking forward to his

942
01:19:04.600 --> 01:19:09.960
talk. We have Mark d Antonio
who is going to be discussing not only

943
01:19:10.600 --> 01:19:14.680
how to handle the skeptical point of
view or or when you're talking to somebody

944
01:19:14.680 --> 01:19:17.520
whos a debunker. He's also going
to be doing a number of workshops for

945
01:19:17.640 --> 01:19:26.640
US on puttal video analysis. And
Frank Salisbury, Doctor Frank Salisbury is a

946
01:19:26.680 --> 01:19:31.920
world class plant physiologists or I don't
know the correct term, but he's he's

947
01:19:31.960 --> 01:19:41.239
a professor of plant science and he
actually is from the early days and wrote

948
01:19:41.239 --> 01:19:45.039
a book on UFOs over Utah.
And he's going to talk about his research

949
01:19:45.239 --> 01:19:50.039
and what he believes as an academic, how you know UFOs can be researched

950
01:19:50.039 --> 01:19:56.800
and how mainstream science can be brought
into to bear on that. Of course,

951
01:19:56.840 --> 01:19:59.199
you know, we have our favorite
Stan Friedman is going to be there,

952
01:20:00.520 --> 01:20:03.920
and let's see John Ventry will talk. You talk about UFOs over Pennsylvania

953
01:20:04.039 --> 01:20:08.800
and a number of a lot of
folks probably don't know unless they've seen our

954
01:20:08.840 --> 01:20:14.800
show UFOs over Earth. The Pennsylvania
experienced a major flap of uful activity last

955
01:20:14.880 --> 01:20:17.319
year. I mean just off the
charts in terms of what people are seeing

956
01:20:17.399 --> 01:20:20.840
even this year. That's continuing.
So he's going to talk about his latest

957
01:20:20.880 --> 01:20:27.039
research. Quite a few good speakers
m hm, doctor Frank Salisbury. Was

958
01:20:27.079 --> 01:20:31.359
he able to look into some of
that Pennsylvania evidence because John had talked to

959
01:20:31.439 --> 01:20:35.800
us about and it's also in the
show about those plants that were covered by

960
01:20:35.840 --> 01:20:45.000
that glary stuff that was sucked back
into this craft. Yes, he actually

961
01:20:45.000 --> 01:20:47.199
did look at it. Actually he
was. He was not asked to look

962
01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:55.199
at the evidence of the sexasical evans
what was positive. He was asked to

963
01:20:55.239 --> 01:20:59.800
look at the research that another professor
had done and to give us a second

964
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:03.880
So it was mostly you know,
what is your second opinion about the earlier

965
01:21:03.920 --> 01:21:10.520
research. Okay, so he was
on the show then, Yes, of

966
01:21:10.640 --> 01:21:14.279
doctor Franks Alvier was on that show. Okay, yeah, I remember that

967
01:21:14.439 --> 01:21:16.359
now, Okay, cool, So
that'll be great. We'll have two different

968
01:21:16.359 --> 01:21:20.760
perspectives on that that Pennsylvania Calase.
It was really cool to have John on

969
01:21:21.239 --> 01:21:28.960
and have an update on it because
that was some really interesting stuff. Yes,

970
01:21:29.119 --> 01:21:38.600
very interesting. A question from the
chat was that has moved on compared

971
01:21:39.600 --> 01:21:45.439
the sightings in Phoenix to Stevenville to
Timley Park, et cetera, to see

972
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:56.600
if there's some sort of commonality between
these mass sightings or these flaps. I

973
01:21:56.640 --> 01:22:00.399
don't think we've done any research directly. I'm trying to do recomparisons between those

974
01:22:00.439 --> 01:22:06.560
three events. I know John Schustler
is very heavily involved in doing research on

975
01:22:06.640 --> 01:22:13.279
triangles, which you know, the
Phenix lights some folks, so they saw

976
01:22:13.279 --> 01:22:18.880
a massive triangle fly over and the
same thing with Tinley Park. So yeah,

977
01:22:19.119 --> 01:22:23.920
there hasn't been any direct comparison or
of those three cases as far as

978
01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:28.880
I know, mm hmm. And
you know, reflecting on all those cases

979
01:22:29.359 --> 01:22:33.840
and other flaps around the world.
To me, and except for this triangle

980
01:22:33.880 --> 01:22:38.399
one now and well, except for
the triangles, there are flaps of the

981
01:22:38.439 --> 01:22:44.600
triangles. Mexico seems to have flaps
of the orb type things. But these

982
01:22:44.680 --> 01:22:49.039
other cases that he's talking about,
they seemed to be completely different phenomena each

983
01:22:49.079 --> 01:22:55.960
one of those different cases exactly.
I think a lot of times too,

984
01:22:56.279 --> 01:23:01.359
once of something like the Phoenix lights
hits them or Stevenville hits the media,

985
01:23:01.840 --> 01:23:04.760
you get a lot of secondary witnesses
that come forward and say well I saw

986
01:23:04.800 --> 01:23:09.840
something I mean not even related to
the first sighting. So you have to

987
01:23:09.840 --> 01:23:14.720
be able to separate, you know, the original raw data from the subsequent

988
01:23:14.760 --> 01:23:19.439
media and deused activity. So that
becomes difficult in of itself, and that

989
01:23:19.520 --> 01:23:24.960
kind of almost touches on something that
you had mentioned earlier, which when it

990
01:23:25.000 --> 01:23:30.760
comes to the entity entity, it's
a huge variety of different entities that are

991
01:23:30.880 --> 01:23:34.800
seen, and it's also seemingly the
same with craft that really, if you

992
01:23:34.880 --> 01:23:41.439
look at the reports we received with
move on It, you have some popular

993
01:23:41.560 --> 01:23:47.600
type of shapes and sizes. However
there's a much bigger variety of these things

994
01:23:49.560 --> 01:23:54.920
then most people realize, well absolutely, I mean we look back even in

995
01:23:54.960 --> 01:23:59.119
our own case files, I mean
they come in all shapes and sizes,

996
01:23:59.239 --> 01:24:04.079
so it's yeah, it's it's even
for example that in that Pennsylvania flap,

997
01:24:04.680 --> 01:24:10.880
one of the primary witnesses saw a
very strange hexagonal shaped craft, which we

998
01:24:10.880 --> 01:24:15.039
don't get a lot of hexagonal type
craft reported to us, so and so

999
01:24:15.119 --> 01:24:23.680
yeah, definitely all types mm hmm. Yeah, And I guess I know

1000
01:24:23.720 --> 01:24:28.119
you're touching on a bit into symposium
kind of the future of moufon and and

1001
01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:32.319
uh research and maybe is there something
you can speak to on that in the

1002
01:24:32.399 --> 01:24:39.319
last few minutes here. Well,
I think the in terms of future research

1003
01:24:39.600 --> 01:24:42.479
MOVEFON is going to stick to what
it did as best and that's using the

1004
01:24:42.560 --> 01:24:47.359
scientific method. But we want to
take a more active role in terms of

1005
01:24:47.359 --> 01:24:55.720
of basically getting mainstream science involved with
this subject. So we're looking at the

1006
01:24:55.720 --> 01:25:00.800
fine university that will sponsor scientific symposium
and UFOs want to do more of these

1007
01:25:00.840 --> 01:25:02.680
research teams that we've done that we're
doing now. We have a history team

1008
01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:06.159
that's looking at the early days.
We have our abduction team that's looking at

1009
01:25:06.159 --> 01:25:11.279
abduction data. But we want to
keep that going with even more and varied

1010
01:25:11.279 --> 01:25:15.239
research. So it's moving forward and
going out there and gathering more data through

1011
01:25:15.840 --> 01:25:20.279
databases that we acquire from other folks
and other organizations and putting that in the

1012
01:25:20.319 --> 01:25:24.880
electronic forms and so we can easily
search across it. So a lot of

1013
01:25:24.920 --> 01:25:28.680
work that needs to be done.
Yeah, and I think I like to

1014
01:25:28.760 --> 01:25:35.720
think that we are on the hopefully
on the cusp of seeing some scientific organization

1015
01:25:36.439 --> 01:25:42.199
take this subject on, because for
instance, at our symposium we have what

1016
01:25:42.479 --> 01:25:47.279
one, two, three, four, five PhDs speaking, and that's not

1017
01:25:47.319 --> 01:25:50.680
including Stanton Freedman. A lot of
people call him doctor Stanton Freeman, but

1018
01:25:50.760 --> 01:25:56.600
he's actually although he is a nuclear
physicist, I don't believe he has his

1019
01:25:56.720 --> 01:26:00.399
PhD. So, but he's obviously
very capable well, and he's done a

1020
01:26:00.439 --> 01:26:08.000
lot of work in nuclear physics.
So she's definitely you know, knows what

1021
01:26:08.039 --> 01:26:12.640
he's talking about. But I mean, that's a lot of scientists right there

1022
01:26:14.159 --> 01:26:16.119
exactly, because that's what that's really
what sposed what we are. We have

1023
01:26:16.159 --> 01:26:20.359
a symposium that's going on. It's
a scientific symposium, so folks can hear

1024
01:26:20.399 --> 01:26:25.359
the latest research. We're not just
here to to fratenize, even though it's

1025
01:26:25.399 --> 01:26:28.720
an important part of it. We're
here to present the latest data on the

1026
01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:32.560
latest evidence and we're looking forward to
that. All right, cool, So

1027
01:26:32.600 --> 01:26:39.039
people can register for the movef On
Symposium still you go to mofon dot com.

1028
01:26:39.680 --> 01:26:45.239
That's August sixth through the tenth.
The investigator training is all day on

1029
01:26:45.279 --> 01:26:49.840
the sixth, right oh six to
the ninth, six the ninth, and

1030
01:26:50.079 --> 01:26:54.560
or folks can just show up at
the Number Tech Center, Maria down on

1031
01:26:54.600 --> 01:26:58.720
the Number Tech Center on the day
of their choice. August sixth through the

1032
01:26:58.800 --> 01:27:01.039
ninth. We'll be selling tickets at
the door. They do definitely want to

1033
01:27:01.079 --> 01:27:08.359
miss our banquet on Friday night.
We will have a few tickets we can

1034
01:27:08.359 --> 01:27:11.239
sell at the banquet dinner. It's
going to be a very important event,

1035
01:27:11.359 --> 01:27:15.039
not only honoring folks within MOFON,
but just talking about the history of MOFON

1036
01:27:15.199 --> 01:27:18.960
and the proud history that we have. We're planning for a big celebration on

1037
01:27:19.000 --> 01:27:25.439
Friday night. Of course, if
folks are interested in becoming UFO investigators,

1038
01:27:25.439 --> 01:27:29.399
they would want to come to our
workshop that's being held August sixth all day

1039
01:27:29.439 --> 01:27:34.640
where we're going to take folks through
a number of different subjects for how to

1040
01:27:34.680 --> 01:27:41.119
go out and active to active UFO
investigation. Perfect well, cool, Well,

1041
01:27:41.159 --> 01:27:45.439
thanks for being on the show.
A lot of I think great information.

1042
01:27:45.680 --> 01:27:49.560
So I was excited to have you
and so this has been really cool.

1043
01:27:49.720 --> 01:27:54.479
Definitely a lot of subjects to talk
about, and thanks for being on

1044
01:27:54.520 --> 01:27:59.840
the show. Thank you and Andrew
take here and for you listeners, thanks

1045
01:27:59.840 --> 01:28:02.560
for tuning in. You know,
be sure to be here next week where

1046
01:28:02.600 --> 01:28:06.680
we'll have someone involved with the symposium
on got a few people in mind,

1047
01:28:06.720 --> 01:28:12.039
but I've got to actually get their
commitments, which I will do. But

1048
01:28:12.720 --> 01:28:15.439
you know, thanks for tuning in, thanks for coming into the chat.

1049
01:28:15.800 --> 01:28:18.920
We'll talk to you next week.
And also thanks to the UFO and Paranormal

1050
01:28:19.000 --> 01:28:23.920
Network for having us online. All
right, thank to you all later,

1051
01:28:24.159 --> 01:29:10.159
you guys have a wonderful summer.
Weeks called appreciate with Buda, called appreciate

1052
01:29:10.199 --> 01:29:21.560
with Buda, called appreciate with Sunday
back, called appreciate with Don, called

1053
01:29:21.560 --> 01:30:15.359
prim called prior, called priory,
tripical prior PA, tronical pory strama,

1054
01:30:17.760 --> 01:30:34.920
typical priory stingram, cynical priory strama, typical priory strama, typical parame and

1055
01:30:35.199 --> 01:30:43.760
typical parame and typical diary Madame