Love Talk Radio. Welcome to us a think Tank with your host Alejandro ro
Boo Boo Boo Bob. That's a cool song. I love it done by
Kevin McLeod, So you can look this guy up, great royalty free music
that he puts out there. Thank you, mister McCloud. But you are
listening to my friends UFO Think Tank Radio, and my name is Alejandro t
Rojas. Thank you for listening, and I'm so excited. I think I
forgot to mention this last weekend. I am very much apologized to my great
friends over there at UFO Paranormal Radio. So if you're listening on UFO Paranormal
Radio, thanks for tuning in. And I am very excited to be a
part of this awesome network ran by Joe Montaldo. They're now syndicating my show,
so it's being heard around the world, and I am sure once we
are able to work it out, Joe will be the first guy to be
doing internet radio, I net webcasting and other galaxies. That's going to be
a great thing. Hopefully they'll be able to understand us, and you know
that would be weird because a lot of these stories these guys communicate kind of
brain to brain, So how will that work? How will you know?
That's just when we talk about UFO disclosures. It's going to have such an
impact on so many aspects of our lives, including web chat. You know,
we better are a web radio. We better start thinking about that.
But anyway, thank you all for being here with me today. And as
usual, we start off with some UFO news. So let's check out what's
been happening this week, and as usual, there has been a lot going
on. In fact, we will start off with some of our stories.
I think it wasn't able to cover this one with you guys last week,
or maybe it was the last one I covered, but talking about oh yeah,
doctor Jessin Marcel and Roswell. But a great story by Kevin Randall.
Kevin Randall being a Roswell researcher, a UFO researcher and going to be one
of the gentlemen speaking at our move on symposium coming up here. You know
what I had to tell you about something special going on? Also, which
is our guest tonight, who is James Carrion, the International Director of the
Mutual UFO Network, And I'm very excited to have him on because he doesn't
do a whole lot of media. Typically, when the media gets ahold of
him, he says, talk to Alejandro, that's me because I handle most
of those media spots, and so I end up doing those interviews and getting
beat up for move on for him. Just kidding. Actually, I get
to talk with a lot of wonderful people and share a lot of great information
because Moufon does some good stuff. So we'll be able to talk to James
Carrion today and that's very exciting. We'll talk a lot about the symposium and
you guys can come out and see James talk. You know, we had
our guests last week, John Venture, who will also be talking at the
symposium, and the gentleman I'm speaking of now, Kevin Randall, will also
be at the symposium. But he wrote a great story about Jesse Marcel getting
beat up I guess in some of the UFO arenas some people calling him a
liar and stuff like that, and he's pretty much defending him and telling him,
Hey, this guy's an American hero, Jesse Marcel. And he's not
even talking about the UFO subject. Jesse Marcell is actually a doctor. He's
a flight surgeon, for the Army. He's done a couple of tours in
Iraq. So that's why this gentleman's American hero, regardless of the fact that
he is coming forward with what his father experienced and sharing, Hey, you
know, my father showed me this material that didn't seem to be anything that
we had been able to create. My father told me that this was,
you know, a material from a crash saucer that was probably from an extraterrestrial
craft. And so, you know, he believed this while other and he
has since not been able to explain what he saw. So that's great that
he comes out and talks, and Kevin Randall's pretty much saying, you know,
don't beat this guy up for being in the wrong place at the wrong
time, for being there when his dad came and showed him this stuff.
Also, Roger Marsh, we talked a lot about Roger Marsh because he's been
doing some really cool stuff as the UFO Examiner. I'm examiner dot com also
mostly posting some mofon stories, but he has a story here on the Washington
Mofon chief investigator who launched a new website, James Clarkson. So that's something
that you've got to check out because he's putting a lot of information out there
of sightings in the area. You know, recently I talked about New England
doing the same kind of thing. Conglomeration of the different MoveOn groups. So
it's great that these guys are getting together and doing a lot, you know,
MoveOn groups here and there are doing a lot of great stuff, and
maybe James will be able to update us on that in just a minute.
Here also a story on a dozen silent UFOs crossing the Ohio Skies. Another
move on report. Remember you can go to MoveOn dot com and look at
these reports in real time as soon as that person push it to submit.
When they put in a report on the website, you're able to see that
and read the details of that siting. In fact, we even have a
graphical interface that works with Google where you can see a little icon instantly pop
up and this thing self updates itself, so you can open this have it
open at work all day long, go check it out and you'll be able
to see the new sightings pop up and stay up to date. And you
know, that way, if maybe you're you're at work and you see,
you know, a dozen sidings surrounding the area where you work. You know
that, you know, maybe it's time to kind of hit the road and
go visit Grandma in the next date or something, or go take a look
and start snapping some pictures or taking some video and you can submit that to
the CMS. Also, it's so advanced that they can take pictures and videos
on there and there's some great pictures video and Roger Marsh often we'll post those
as well. Right here in Lakewood, Colorado, which is the town next
door the town I actually work in here in what the metro area of Denver,
that people have seen a UFO hovering over rooftops. So that was another
sighting that was reported recently. You know, people talked about sidings here and
there, and the news really plays it down, but they don't really mention
or highlight the truth that there are hundreds of sightings a month, literally hundreds
of sightings a month. James sends us out all out of a monthly report
that shows how many sightings there have been for the month, and there are
literally hundreds that we receive a month and thousands over a year, and a
lot of these people are very credible. Some of the very credible people out
there. In fact, are the subject of my next story, which is
some videos that have come out lately that are really interesting. You know.
One of them is Bud's Aldron talking about a monolith on the moon, one
of the moons of Mars. And of course, of course a monolith could
be just a structure of rock structure or something like that, but it's interesting
that the way he talks about it, and you can see this video,
he's like, you know, if people knew about that, we got to
go check out who built that and why that's there. This is a strange
object, and so he's alluding to something more mysterious than just you know,
a normal rock jetting out there. And you may have heard the stories of
budget Aldren in the past waffling on whether he's seen UFOs or not. Sometimes
he says he does. Sometimes he tries to explain away what he saw.
So really interesting, what's going on with buzz Aldron, And definitely with this
interview, if he was really trying to hype people up and talk about how
we we need to go to the Mars, we need to establish spaces on
the Mars. Really and a lot of scientists talk this way, Mars is
the best place to go instead of a space station, which is much more
difficult to maintain. You know, it's much more difficult to expand. If
we went to the Moon, that could be our launch platform to go to
Mars. So that's really a lot of people talk about. That's really the
next step if we want to do some real space exploration, turning the Moon
into our space station, so you know, much easier. Another interesting video
that I posted here is the Obama Press secretary was doing an interview recently early
in the morning and they took some calls from listeners and one of the listeners
asked the UFO question. You know, he did a great job saying,
hey, I know this may sound silly, but please take this serious.
You know. He mentioned edgar Mitchell, another astronaut who had been on the
Moon, and edgar Mitchell talking about how he knew Roswell was the real deal,
and so this guy did treat him really nice. He said, you
know, we haven't talked about that. I haven't talked about that with Obama,
but we certainly are committed to transparency in government. So I don't know
if that's going to move anything, but it was an interesting transaction that you
can see there and these videos. Remember all of this stuff I'm talking about.
You can go to ufothinkdink dot com, scroll down and you'll see this
on the front page, these news stories. Or you can go to mofon
dot com and go to the UFO Newswire and you'll also see these stories.
And finally, a lot of triangles being seen again. Roger Marsh writing a
story on triangle UFOs being seen over four states, and just recently he had
written about triangular UFOs being seen over six states. So you may remember in
Belgium in the nineties and we actually had the general who had done the investigation
on the triangles that they were seeing out there at our last symposium in San
Jose. Wonderful person. You can go to a move on dot com and
purchase his talk, and I highly highly recommend you do that because he covered
how, you know, dozens of police officers, military, other witnesses had
seen these triangles. They tracked where they had seen these triangles over Belgium.
It's a it was just a wonderful talk. I loved it, and so
you've got to go check that out. But more triangles being seen over the
US very strange. But without further ado, I believe that we have mister
James Carrion on the phone. I'm here, great, I can hear you.
Just fine, super sounded very good. So I had talked about earlier.
I have a lot of stuff actually I want to talk about with you,
but not to be crueler or anything. But you know, some of
the more difficult questions I face, and they're actually not difficult. They're kind
of fun and I like to clear the air on some things. But you
know, I was thinking it would be kind of neat to ask you some
of those questions and see how you would respond to some of them. The
first being I always I get this a lot, and I'm sure you get
it sometimes too. How MOFON is part of the government, and move On
is spreading disinformation or keeping information back from the public. What do you think
about that? It's absolutely true. No, I'm just kiddused, absolutely not.
No. You know, it's funny because we are accused all the time
of being part of some grand conspiracy. Actually, there's probably three or four
move On board members that are on some top one hundred men in black list.
That's betting around the internet. You know, the accusations are ridiculous.
And and if anybody were to come to the symposium this year and listen to
my talk, specifically my talk on some of the new research I've done from
the very early days of UFOs and the government complicity uh and in the start
of a cover up. Uh And and actually for some very different reasons that
I'm going to be showing, I think they would be very you know,
very hesitant to make any accusations about movement any longer. I mean, we're
we are very much open, you know, for us, the truth is
it. And so you know, we're trying to just as be as honest
as possible and as forthcoming as possible about our research, what we do,
how we do it. And you know, we're we're just on a mission
here. We're on a mission to try to figure out what this mystery is
all about. So uh, you know, we're not in bed with the
government or there's no complicity there. Yeah, And it's you know, being
part and seeing how all this works. It's just funny. And I tell
people the same thing. You know, come to a symposium or something,
you'll you'll see very quickly that that's not the truth that that's just kind of
conspiracy talk out there and a lot of people, as you know, it's
kind of like, if you don't see the things the way I do,
then you're probably a disinformationist, right, And I would agree with that.
And you know, actually I would have to say that there just based on
the time I've spent the move On, I've seen enough of some of the
investigations we've done into some of the allegations and some of the claims that have
been made on the Internet and so on to know that there is disinformation going
on. There are active disinformation agents out there planting information in the UFO field,
you know, selling strange and wild stories, but it's not originating from
within move On. This is usually something that pops up on some websites somewhere,
or somebody starts making some some some strange claims, but it's not it's
not from within the organization. So there there's some truth to uh, there
being disinformation out there and inactively being seated, uh, but it's not it's
not from within mouf On itself. Yeah. I had this guy just the
other day call me and give me a whole earload and and he just wouldn't
stop. And I wish I would have known earlier how to make him stop.
Essentially just to disagree with him one time. Well, I didn't necessarily
disagree with him. He just went in about Phil Schneider an underground basis,
and I told him, well, not everybody believes in Phil Schneider. And
he said, oh, my gosh, mouf On is part of the illuminati,
aren't they click Yeah, ridiculous, Yeah, some silly stuff. But
you had talked about disinformation and not only are you not or wherever happen,
if I'm correct, a member of m J twelve, you yourself. I'm
kind of skeptical of whether MJ twelve exists or not. Is that true?
You know, if you look back at the history of youthology, m J
twelve is one of those I would I actually call it a myth because I
don't believe it's really there's a true group called m J twelve. And if
you look back at the history, it came out right after Charles Berlitz and
Bill Moore, We're releasing their book about the Roswell Incident, and all of
a sudden we get these documents that are talking about this group, and how
Eisenhower's would be in briefed and the documents themselves would never have been proven to
be genuine. Subsequent to that, we get a whole deluge of m J
twelve related documentation and all of questionable providence. So the real question is why
was that documentation released at that time and for what reason. My feeling is
that in itself was an to disinformation campaign. Send UFO researchers down this path,
proved that m J twelve was a real group, and in the meantime,
the truth is somewhere else. So this is one of the many rabbit
holes that you follow just have then sent down, sent down throughout the years.
And I could name probably half a dozen where we've been led astray and
kept really busy somewhere else other than we really should be looking. Yeah.
So, and you do feel, I mean even possibly more so than many
others, that there is an active or possibly many active disinformation projects or programs
going on to get information, pour information out into the community, right,
And I would, and actually I would probably have to state, you know,
publicly and honestly here that my opinion is that there's a cover up going
on. But it's not for the same reason a lot of people think it's
going on. I think the field has been hijacked. It's been used throughout
the years for psychological warfare, for counterintelligence, for as cover for our own
exotic aircraft, and that has been basically used for those purposes. But there
is a true there's a true phenomena. The only problem is trying to figure
out what that true phenomena is when the waters have been so muddy by these
active these agencies that have actively used it for their own purposes is pretty much
next to impossible. So this is one of the things I've always believed that
us in upology, we're never going to get to the truth. We will
never know what the true nature of this phenomena is until we can unequivocally know
what the role of government is first, and that that's going to take a
lot of digging and a lot of exposing how this field has been hijacked for
these various purposes. Mm hmm. Do you have any thoughts that way?
Actually I do. I'm doing some very active research right now, and I
don't want to divulge what it is at this minute. I mean, some
of it is going to come out at the symposium. But I have there's
a plan. There's a plan in place to start, you know, basically
cracking this this this shell that's been around the field for so long that that
is the role of government, and I think there is a way to crack
it. I'm actually getting together a group of researchers to work on that very
same project. I know. It's something that John Chusler is working on that
I think is really exciting is some of the cryptology and some of the work
inside the government there some of the government's well known cryptologists in the past and
them working in the UFO arena and actually trying to come up with ways to
possibly communicate with extraterrestrials. I can't wait till you finishes that. Yeah,
John shared some of his research with me. It's very fascinating mm hmm.
Pretty incredible stuff. So, you know, kind of along those same lines,
some of the bigger investigations that you've got you've been a part of.
I know you did a lot of work on those California drones. You know.
I looked into the California drones, not when it first happened, but
soon after, when when some of the TV shows expressed interest and and and
investigating them. The thing, the overwhelming factor that I that I saw that
that led me to believe that the drones were a part of a hoax or
be also part of a disinformation campaign was the fact that there that there were
so many alleged witnesses, yet we could never actually find one physical person that
we could interview in person, you know, actually in person, a real
individual. So thirty something alleged to witnesses to these drones, yet not one
real person. It just doesn't add up. Yeah, that's what started making
me suspicious. In no case that I've ever seen do you run across especially
that many witnesses who don't want to talk. And then on top of that,
the reports that they had put in were so ho hummed. There didn't
show any excitement when really amost reports the person writing is just baffled and kind
of rolling through kind of like we do, rolling through the possibilities of what
it could be, and they show some emotions, some excitement there and what
they saw, and you really didn't get much of that in the witness reports
on the California Drunes exactly, or the single report that we got on the
drones in the move On website turned out to be an email address that with
no other contact information. So the witness just left an email address. And
despite the fact that we emailed to address a number of times, we never
got a response back. So again we're we're dealing with folks that are anonymous
witnesses. But anonymity is one thing, but you have to be able to
prove that a person is real. So there's a whole issue of non repreation,
and and that was overwhelmingly the overwhelming factor. There was that this that
these people were non existent, these witnesses. Yeah, and just for people's
knowledge out there a couple of things, some his California drones. You couldn't
look at that in the past. And there were these real popular pictures that
were pretty incredible that came out of these strange crafts here again, these crafts
that were nothing like what has previously been described in the past, and these
pictures they seemed too good to be true. And I think you've got some
people to look at these pictures and give professional opinions on them, right,
Yeah, there were a number of photo analysts that looked at them. Our
principal photo analysts, Mark Antonio looked at them and and and to him,
they appear to be CGI A computer graphics and animation, And in fact,
when he gave a workshop at our symposium ye last year, even gave a
demonstration of how they could have been done, and that in itself is not
convincing. The problem with authenticating photos it's very very easy to hoax a photo
these days with the state of art computer animation software and hardware that's out there,
so it's very difficult to actually prove a photo is faked has been faked.
So we really need some very good analysts, and actually we've been working
with some forensic computer experts who have some very proprietary algorithms. We did this.
We actually used their algorithms on a case in Mexico that we investigated as
part of the show UFO Is Over Earth, and we were able to show
through forensic science how these particular photos, although we couldn't show that they were
definitively fake, we could show that they were definitely not the originals as the
witness that claimed to come right off the cell phone. So yes, the
computer world has allowed a lot of folks to create some very high quality hoaxed
photos, but we're trying to keep up with them with forensic science. I
was impressed with myself at work when I took this wedding photo and then changed
the faces of two people at work to make it look like they got married.
And that looks pretty convincing. That easy, Yeah, exactly. So
another case that you did a lot of work on, and you know,
with the drones and with this other case. I think you did some of
the best work on both of these cases. That's why I bring them up.
But the Kinross case, and if you kind of could explain what that
was then what you had found there. Sure, Actually the Kinrass incident itself
is an old case from the fifties where a UFO was observed flying from Canada
into the United States and so the jet fighter was dispatched to intercept it,
and it was tracking on quite a few radar stations and what they saw on
radar was the were the two objects, the jet and the UFO emerged on
the screen on the radar screen, and then the UFO moved off and the
the F eighty nine jet was lost. They did the massive search and they
never found the jet. So fast forward, you know, forty something years
later, or actually even fifty something years later, we have this alleged dive
company who said, well, we were in Lake Superior and we were looking
around looking for a shipwrecking mo and behold, our side scan sonar picked up
this object on the floor. You know, we think it's the F eighty
nine that was lost because we sent an ROV and we also see this UFO
object near it. And so there were these sonar scam pictures that were released
on the internet on their website. And the thing here's the problem is is
when folks make claims like this, a lot of people leaving, you know,
leading UFO researchers will will not do proper background checks to make sure that
these are valid claims. It will just basically swallow a hook line and sinker.
And so it made the rounds of the internet like wildfire. Everybody was
really excited about it. So I spent a lot of time, hundreds of
hours trying to validate that the folks making these claims were even real people,
that they were at a real company, and none of it checked out.
And eventually, when when faced with all the evidence I had amassed, they
basically shut themselves down. Their website disappeared and were never heard from them again.
Now it's to me, it's extremely interesting as to why they even did
this website even pop up to begin with. These claims were made because it
didn't appear to have any obvious motivation in terms of, oh, we're going
to make money off of the story, or we're going to make this because
we couldn't really figure out who these individuals were, so again we're going back
to possible disinformation purposes. Maybe this was a some agency of a government out
there that was trying to perpetuate the UFO mess for their own reasons. M
hmm. That's what's interesting about both of these cases. With a lot of
hoax cases, you know who's doing the hoaxing. It's typically the people who
are sending out the information. But many times you know who's putting out the
information. They're posting it on their website and there may be doing videos and
sending emails and you can talk to them and before their hoax is revealed.
But in the California drone case and the Kinross case, still nobody knows who
was behind those two things, and there seemed to be no gain for any
individual exactly there's no obvious money motivator for why they they were making those claims.
Mm hmm. Now, a lot of people had talked about in both
cases, and especially with the drones, kind of being a possible, possibly
a viral marketing campaign, and I never sign any evidence that that was actually
the case. Yeah, there was. There were some rumors early on that
maybe alien were computers, it was a campaign that they had launched, or
there was a viral marketing campaign for some computer video game or some new sci
fi movie coming out, but all of those claims pretty much fizzled. We
could never track down any evidence that it was a viral marketing campaign. Mm
hmmm. A couple of questions coming from the chat room, and hello to
chatters, and thanks for joining, but one of them, I guess I'll
ask the first one, Steve, the nature of the beings. I guess
we would have to go back. Do you believe then there are I guess
the extra restaurant hypothesis? Do you believe there are possibly extraterrestrials, you know,
behind these seemingly intelligently controlled technological devices that people are seeing buying around.
Well, I think it's definitely a possibility it's one of the many hypotheses for
what is behind the UFO phenomena. But at the same time, we also
know that when entities are seeing, for example, abductions, that when the
witnesses are taken on board what is allegedly a craft, they're they're told information
that oftentimes doesn't hold to be true. So there's a there's a whole thread
of deception. So so we don't really know. The bottom line is nobody
really knows. We do know that folks see entities. We do know that
they're observed on board craft outside of craft, I mean, these have been
witnessed for as long as the UFO phenomena has been around. As far as
their prominence, where they come from, we don't know that. We don't
know whether they're from their extraterrestrials visiting us from another solar system, or their
time travelers, or their interdimensional travelers. We simply do not know. Yeah,
and that pretty much answers the questions because this person was asking, you
know, essentially, do you if you believe they were angels or just beings
from other worlds or other dimensions? And yeah, yeah, and I think
that's what I like to argue is you know where And I'd like to hear
your thoughts on this where kind of the noisy negative is ss Stanton puts it
fail because they purport to be scientists and following the scientific method. But the
scientific method doesn't mean you know, oh, what you saw or what you
claim to have seen is just so out there that it can't be true,
where the scientific method is more of holding up that possibility until you can prove
otherwise absolutely. And I think a lot of folks do not understand the difference
between a skeptic and a debunker. Skeptic I mean basically move On considers itself
to be a skeptical organization, or we use a scientific method, one of
the hallmarks of science and skepticism. I mean, it's very healthy to have
a dose of skepticism when investigating any claims. But the difference between a skeptic
and a debunker. A skeptic is willing to look at the data, to
actually do their homework and investigate and research, whereas a debunker is somebody who
just typically because it doesn't fit within their paradigm, outright dismisses the research that
has been done without doing any research. Themselves. It's basically just a lot
of armchairs like and guessing. And you know, the bunkers are just basically
a group of lazy folks who will take somebody else's research and just throw it
out the doors because it doesn't fit within their belief system. M hm.
Another question from the chat was asking you about the Jonathan Reid case and if
you had any opinions or had looked into that much the Jonathan Reid case.
I personally have not investigated Jonathan Reid's claims, but I have spoken with a
few researchers, and from what I understand, mister Reed made quite a few
claims that he could not prove mm hmm. Interesting. And you know you
had talked about the difference between debunkers and skeptics, and I know that because
there have been, like you said, other researchers who have had strong feelings.
It's about the California drones and about the the kN rass, you know,
with the radar data and in Mexico you mentioned in that Mexico case,
and there are some researchers who had strong feelings about all of those being the
real deal. But of course you have that for Jonathan Reid for a while
too. You know, what would you say to those people who are saying,
oh great, you know whenever we hear from Moffin, they're telling us,
how you know our pet case is is it's not real? Well,
I would I would say, let's just compare the data. The problem with
youthology is there's so much infighting and there and there are so many investigators and
researchers that are odds with each other personally. It becomes a battle of personalities.
Uh and and really that's ridiculous. What we're talking about is investigation,
hardcore investigation and hardcore data. So you know, my thought is like I'm
not or my belief it's I'm not going to go out and attack somebody or
another utiful researcher personally. You know, I don't care you know what their
background is or or you know if they were a journalist in a past life,
or an investigator or a police detective or a scientist or you have a
PhD. The bottom line is showing you the data and showed me the homework
that you've done. And if you've done the same homework that I've done,
then we can compare apple apples to apples, but just outwardly dismiss my data
because it's an issue of ego or personality. That's the problem. That that's
that's where euthology has floundered for the last sixty years. We can just just
compare data. Yeah, yeah, and I find that, you know,
even especially with other countries, researchers from other countries, lots of times their
government and their media are very open to hearing what they have to say about
UFOs and don't give them the amount of scrutiny that we get here in the
United States. And you know, that's why try to tell people it's so
important, but move on. Does that maybe your case event is real,
but you don't have enough data to support that. Well, if you don't
have data to support it, what are you You're not going to be able
to change any minds. If you get some real data to support and show
that you've got something that is uh, the real deal, then that's something
that you really want to make the most noise about because then you've got something
hopefully that will open people's eyes to what's going on here. Absolutely, we
have another caller or a caller, let's see if we can get them on
the line real quick. So is there a caller on the line. Yes,
there is Hello there, Yes, Hello. What's your name is from?
My name is John. I am the owner of the website called paranormal
fifty one dot com. Okay, And the the events that happened in my
life that cause me to create the paranormal fifty one dot com project was an
extraterrestrial biological entity siding that I had when I was in West Texas driving on
the highway driving east and I heard on the I had the passenger side window
open because it was so hot inside, and I decided to stop the truck
because I was hearing these these chirping sounds just like the the extraterrestrials that were
on the District nine movie. These chirping, almost like a bullfrog chirping,
and it appeared as if they were like teleporting themselves following my truck, my
Dodge Dakota, my silver Dodge Dakota that I was driving east to west in
and I heard these these It sounded just as if it was you know,
brightest day. It's not like you know, voices inside my mind or anything.
But I stopped the truck, got out of the truck looked in the
direction where I was coming from, which was west. Then I turned around
and there in front of me, I saw this, this arm that was
less than too way me. I looked down to the lap and I saw
these circles on its arm, as if it had some type of biomechanical suit
and uh. And so I was like, my heart was racing at the
time, and I held out my arm, my right arm, as if
I wanted to, you know, shake hands with it or something. I
don't know, but I saw an arm there. It looked like like as
if it had predator like cloaking technology. It was, uh, it had
uh. It was as if like electrostatic shimmering outline was was uh, yeah,
I remember you told us about this a bit, Yes, yeah,
But I wanted to get James Perrion's opinion on or not opinion, but his
experience as to if anyone had ever reported anything like the extraterrestrials that are showing
on District nine in the movie. I don't know if you've heard of it,
sir, but it's uh, it's it's it's eerily similar to it sounded
eerily similar to what I heard in the h on the past or Simondo out
of my truck when I was in West Texas and I wanted to get your
opinion on that. Well, if you familiar that with Peter Jackson making the
movie District nine, I'm not actually familiar with the types of entities that he's
portraying on there. I saw one of the trailers for the movie, but
I don't think they actually showed one of the alien creatures, or they did
show some sort of silhouette of it. So I can't comment up in similarity
other than or in the similarity to the sound, other than maybe if if
your experience is real and and you witness it, somebody else could have experienced
the same thing, maybe somebody closely associated with the movie, and maybe they
drew drew on that experience stuff as the uh, you know, for the
for the creatures that were portrayed. Yeah, the creatures in the movie are
they almost look like a giant locust or these giant bug looking creatures that are
you know, about six feet or something like that. That's so and and
the you know, there are quite a few UFO incidents from the past where
the entities were described as insect liked or playing man dislike or in you know,
something of an insectoid type being. So it's it's definitely not unheard of.
Yeah, stuff like that is reported. Humh. So the move On
Symposium coming up here to get more into that and what's going up on there
from Uh, we had John venture on and I've had some of the speakers
on before, but this is the fortieth so uh, you know, what
do you think is significant about that, the fortieth anniversary of MUFAN. Well,
it's definitely a milestone for UFO organizations or the history of uf organizations.
If we look back in history at some of the original organizations like Nightcap or
APO, we are sort of a last surviving of these big three organizations.
And I think that's due to the wisdom and foresight of the early founders Walt
Andris and John Schussler, who knew that it was important to create a grassroots
organization with decentralized leadership and basically empower people to go out there and to conduct
investigations of the Mouffon's name, but giving them the freedom and the flexibility to
do that. Look on any sort of rigid hierarchy, so that in itself,
the organizations organizational structure has survived the test of time. But I also
think it's significant that we're still here sixty years after the advent of UFOs and
we're still trying to figure out what this mystery is all about, that in
itself is an employed and issued and and why it's important that move On's still
here as in existence because we have an important mission that we have to undertake.
Why do you think Moufon is still around and the others didn't make it?
Well? I think with APRO it may have been a cult of personality
where a lot of the drive of the organization came from it from you know,
the Lorenzo's, Uh Jim and Coral Lorenzen, and when they died,
the organization died with them. And with NICAP, you know, there are
plenty of rumors that NCAP was infiltrated by government agents to try to disrupt its
operation and eventually went out of business. Of course, I don't know if
those rumors are true or or they have been substantiated, but we do know
they didn't survive very long after they had a change in leadership. So but
Mouffon has been been around and we're happy to we're still here and we hope
to continue in the future. What do you think is really that because one
of the statements and I wanted to ask you about, is move On being
the largest organization of this type. I usually say in the United States,
but you think in the world, I would have to say we're the largest
UFO investigative body in the world. We may not be the largest uful membership
organization. I've heard that there's a Chinese uf organization that has fifty thousand members.
I don't know if that's true or not, but so we may not
be the largest membership, but definitely the largest UFO investigative body in the world.
Yeah, and I think, you know, that's what makes that move
On so great, as we have so many people across the country and even
in other countries too, that are actually hands on investigating. Absolutely, that's
what we do best, is to go out there and try to substantiate claims
and interview witnesses, collect physical evidence everything it has to do with field work
and boots on the ground and really trying to get at the phenomena itself.
Yeah. Another question coming from the chat, he they're asking about abduction.
The abduction phenomenon, and how there aren't any speakers speaking about abduction at the
symposium, so what of our plans to study that phenomena and help these experiencers
actually move on That's true, we don't have any speakers that are speaking on
the abduction phenomena at the symposium, But move On doesn't have an active abduction
research group. It's headed up by Lester Velez and a stellar team of scientists
and doctors who are basically doing scientific research on UF abduction witnesses. In fact,
they've they recently solicited a control group to to work on one of the
projects where they're they're basically doing surveys of abductees. So yeah, we do
have active, active abduction research going on right this minute. In fact,
they are The Abduction group will be giving a presentation at the symposium to the
move On board and the work they've done in the last year, and then
hopefully that'll turn into a symposium talk for the next for the next year of
simposium. Well, and for people, because I get that a lot too,
that's one of the questions people ask, Well, we'll find doesn't care
about abductees. Well, that's one of the things I point out is how
one of our three Discovery Channel shows that you were that you were essentially like
the host of uh was on at that abduction case? Right, Yeah,
No, move On definitely cares about abduction cases, and I don't think a
lot of folks know even the research we've done in the past. One of
the big mouf On projects on abductions was the Abduction Transcription Project, where we
went out and we partnered up with a number of abduction researchers, especially those
social workers and psychologists and sociologists who were doing hypnosis on their patients to try
to uncover their abduction memories, and they gave the transcriptions of those recorded sessions
to move On to transcribe and take away to take out all the witness information,
so we just had the raw experience. And so we did this for
a number of abduction subjects that we could try to see they were common threads
to abduction stories, and we recently had that digitally scanned all of that data
to give to our abduction teams so they can go through it and try to
figure out what those threads are. Yeah, maybe we can talk about you
know, that might be a good segue into the show. Real quick.
The Discovery Channel show, which was a pretty cool thing that happened this year,
and that particular case. I thought that episode. I loved all the
episodes, but that episode was particularly interesting and maybe you can kind of review
that case real quick. Well. The Yeah, we did three shows.
One of the shows was a case down in North Carolina where a gentleman was
out fishing on the Cape River with his friends and they saw some lights come
that came down over the river, and he was off walking through the woods
and he experienced a ship that came over a craft and possible missing time.
His son had observed some entities walking through the woods. When he met up
with the other gentleman down the river, they all became very frightened. They
got on their trucks and they sped home. And when he got home later
that night, he encountered an entity in his backyard. So we went down
there to try to investigate it. For a number of reasons. Number one,
it was a very compelling story because it had so many elements to it.
But there were also quite a few witnesses, so we're able to interview
We were able to interview each witness separately to try to see if they were
able to back each other stories up. And we did some other testing,
some psychological testing as well as a polygraph exam to try to put all that
data together and come to some conclusion. And basically what we decided was something
very traumatic did happen to these folks. We're not sure what it is that
happened to them, a possible abduction scenario, and basically, you know,
we were able to substantiate that it was not a mental illness that was involved,
but that definitely some very strange aspects of the story. Yeah, the
witness seemed very credible. Didn't he have some missing time exactly? He claimed
that when he was when he walked up to the top of the hill when
he first saw the craft, that when he walked back down to the river,
that only twenty minutes or thirty minutes had expired, but his friends had
said that he was gone for three or four hours. Yeah. Another interesting
aspect I thought of that case or that show, was that a polygraph test
was taken and even though and it wasn't positive, What did you think of
that? Well? I, well, a lot of folks don't know when
they when they watched the show is that it looks like that the polygraph was
administered at the very end. In fact, the polygraph was the first thing
that was done and it was not only ad ministered to the primary witness,
but also to his son. And they didn't show the sun's results on the
show. I think what we are determine from the polygraph, at least at
least the polygraph operator thought that there were some questions that both of them will
not be in truth on and you know that. I think what that did
is race some red flags for us. But but we don't we don't decide
a case based on a polygraph. A polygraph is just a tool that that
will do that will basically direct the investigation where to go next, and and
also just to race some red flags that we need that need to be addressed.
So so we didn't we don't necessarily put a whole lot of faith in
the polygraph that we're going to use it as as a as a direction tool.
Well, what I've found, and it seems difficult, is polygraph tests
are very cut and dry, yes or no questions and with an a that
d and often people I've worked with who seem to have enough evidence or to
show me some incredible stuff to make me think that they were really experiencing something.
They often, just like many good witnesses, don't know what it is
they experienced, and they're very readily they're very open to telling you, I
don't know what happened to me. Here's what I remember, here's you know,
the results, here may be the evidence of what might have happened to
me. And often they're asking us, what do you think happened to me?
So it seems difficult for these guys to be able to go on a
polygraph and answer a yes or no to something they don't even know what happened
exactly. And it could also be the trauma of the event itself is a
few results of the exam. So so there's a lot more a lot more
research needs to be done from from competence scientists on whether or not a polygraph
can be used in such in such a situation, But we don't place a
lot of emphasis on it, despite what the showed me may of show,
and I think there was artistic license on the part of the production company.
I did not did not place a lot of emphasis on the polygraph in this
case. Yeah, I think they did a good job actually representing your opinion,
and what you shared with us here is that you're still the polygraph didn't
really have that big of an effect on your feeling towards this witness who has
seemed very credible, very down to earth, and had multiple witnesses of at
least these lights in the sky. Right. So, and then the other
case that you guys covered on the show, well, of course you did
Mexico and we talked a bit about that. Well, let's talk some more
about Mexico because that was kind of rough, I mean, just to kind
of clear the air. And from what I understand, what were your intentions
when you guys went out there to investigate these Mexico cases. Well, the
intention was to give the show an international flavor. The show was termed UFOs
over Earth, not just the United States. So we are trying to show
that UFOs are a worldwide phenomena, which they are, and Mexico has been
reported to be a hot bet of activity, and so we decided to go
stop for a border to investigate. But one thing about doing a TV show,
you can't call these crapped in on demand. So it's not like Ghost
Honey, where you can walk into an old house and it creaks and somebody
bumps the table, and all of a sudden you have a show you really,
you know, things don't show up when you want them to. So
we had to go and investigate the cases that were recent down there. The
one case that was very compelling for me was the one in the Scala where
a whole town had witnessed a UFO earlier that year, or at least a
light, a strange light that caused a direct electromagnetic effect on the town.
And we know that because there's video shows this light and when it grew in
lumin essence, the power in the town went down, so you could see
the direct electromagnetic effect. So that was very compelling. And then of course
there were these photos that were floated through hunting Malison's office, very very clear
photos, and we wanted to investigate those as well, so we went down
there, and at the time, those were the most current cases we could
investigate, so that's what we jumped on. And so you felt that there
was possibly some meet here, there are some interesting stuff that you might be
able to discover something anomalous. Hopefully, Oh absolutely, I mean that's always
the goal, is to try to find compelling evidence that something real and strange
has happened in the sky war. We have the video which showed something strange,
but we also had a newspaper article that came out from a local newspaper
that that really really embellished the story. Not only did people see lights,
but they saw, you know, their cars were dying, their motorcycles were
dying, their cameras didn't work when they were trying to take photos of this
light, and creatures were seen. And when we got down there and we
did our investigation, what we figured out was all of those elements, those
sensational elements of the story were not true. We couldn't find any witnesses to
any of those events, but the whole town had indeed seen the light and
there was a directly electromagnetic effect. So once we stripped away the sensational parts
of the story were left with maybe something they had to do with the power
grid itself, and that's what that was basically our conclusion that there was a
power event. Yeah, I know, you know, when I heard that
you guys were going out there, it's really excited because of course I correspond
with I May and some of his associates occasionally, and it was a total
bummer, of course, And I think you probably felt the same way that
you know, these cases didn't pan out sure absolutely, I mean there.
I mean, we know just from from experience in the literature and all of
the different cases in our files that that things happen that we can't explain once
thoroughly investigated. So we were hoping for such a case. Uh, you
know, We're hoping that this case would be as as as good as any
of the major cases that appear in the UFO history. It will become a
classic. But unfortunately didn't happen. Yeah, And fortunately another bummer, of
course, is that there were a lot of people coming out and saying Movefin
was trying to make Latin Americans or Mexico and Mexican eufologists look bad or something
like this, sure, which which in itself is ridiculous. So I'm a
Hispanic heritage, so I have no desire to try to to mean anybody of
of Hispanic lineage, And that was definitely not our intention going down there.
Our intention to going down there was simply to investigate and find out what the
truth was and simple, yeah, which you know, Ruben Uriarte and I
were talking quite a bit before the show came out, because he was kind
of bracing me for the unfortunate, you know, situation what had been discovered,
or that these cases didn't pan out. And he of course has a
Hispanic background, and and you might not know it from my name Alejandro Rojas,
but I actually have Hispanic background too. But so we're definitely on.
You know, Ruben and I have certainly talked about ways to get you know,
more Mexican uphologists and Hispanics involved with muf ON. I know you worked
on that with Ruben, so it was kind of you know, I can
see, especially with Ruben, and I think with you too, a little
hurtful, you know, a little bit of personal there. When people make
claims like that, well, I mean I think they'd be. In this
field, you have to have a thick skin, so I didn't, and
I got a pretty thick skin. But I think what the shows again goes
back to what I alluded to earlier about the state of euthology and in this
infighting. And for some reason, some UFO researchers, when they can't attack
your data, they'll attack you personally, which is unfortunate. Because that doesn't
need to happen, and I think that's what you're seeing. Yeah, that
is a total bummy bummer someone in here. And this is maybe a good
question to bring up too. And do you know, I don't know if
you get this so much, but you know, I know some of these
questions, of course, are a little critical of move from. But I
answered I get these questions a lot, and of course, so in the
chat here, I have a few questions coming across the chat like that,
and I like to answer these questions because hopefully, you know, they understand
that we're very open and that there aren't any secrets or big conspiracy they have
to be afraid of when it comes to move On. But one of the
people in the chat asked, where is the bulk of Moufon's money going.
The bulk of Moufon's money is actually going to putting our journal. I think
folks think that that we're this huge money making operation, when in fact we're
not. We're a nonprofit organization, so most of our money goes back into
services either for our members or for the public itself, in terms of education,
in terms of our website. So yeah, we don't you know,
we make a small profit as a nonprofit each year, and anybody can go
and download our latest tax return and see exactly how we spend our money.
That's all very much public record. So you know, we don't you know,
we're out here to make a profit. We are a nonprofit organization,
and we're here because we have a mission to accomplish. Yeah, and I
think that's the big message, and that's what I tell people, you know,
do you A lot of people think we have this humongous budget, but
it's very tiny. And if anybody out there has ever had a small group
where you print actual print a journal or even a newsletter, it's expensive.
It's very expensive. And forty five dollars a year does that even cover the
expense for one person's journal? It covers it, but barely. It's you
know, again, printing costs are going high. I've gone up quite a
bit, as well as just postage in general. So you know, a
lot of folks say, why don't you just put out an electronic copy of
your journal, But we actually have a lot of members that would prefer printed
copies, So we're doing We're here for our membership, we're here for the
public and so we're going to stick to what we do best. Mm hmmm.
You know, it's interesting that you mentioned a lot of people wanting a
printed copy too, which I do. It's very nice to have a printed
copy, you know, you can put that on your in your office or
in your you know, on your coffee table and people can look at it.
But I also found this interesting. When I joined MUFON, I thought
it would be twenty somethings like I was when I joined, you know,
I thought it would be I just it was completely different than what I had
thought. But when I walked in there, I found there to be a
lot of baby boomers, a lot of retirees, and a lot of people
who were professors and engineers and retired police officers. That to me was really
shocking. Did you find that interesting when you join to move On? Sure?
Absolutely. I mean, obviously we have so many folks within the organization
that are consultants who are PhDs, well known in their field, a number
of research special it's very well known in their field. Number of professionals from
all walks of life. So that definitely impressed me as well. Obviously,
all these people aren't wasting their time here. There's something real that this phenomena.
Otherwise these folks wouldn't be involved. So that really intrigued me as well
that this was the organization that I need to be a part of. And
So when was it that you first became aware of MoveOn and then what led
you to eventually joining. I actually learned about move On when I was living
in Florida in the late nineties. I had just gone out of the military,
actually early nineties. I just got out of the military and was living
in Tallahossee, Florida, when that story broke about the six young soldiers who
went a wall from their base and went to Golf breezecause they were searching for
UFOs and one of them actually went to the or was trying to attend the
Moufon symposium in Pensacola that year. So that's the first I have heard of
the word MOUFA or the organization. When I moved to Colorado in ninety six,
that's when I decided to look them up and found a local chapter and
I joined. And I guess, even to back up a little further,
what then got you involved with this field to begin with? You know,
I've Alejandra I've been interested in all my life. I can remember back to
when I was age eleven. I have to thank my mom for this,
because she subscribed to all the tabloid publications, the National Inquirer and the Star
and the Globe, and fascinated me some of the stories that were in there.
Even though you know, nowadays people would look at the tabloids and go,
none of this is true. But back in those days, especially the
National inquir they did real investigation UFOs. Bob Pratt, one of the you
know, prominent UFO researchers, worked for the National Inquirer, and they would
send them out on assignments and to verify facts and just like a true UFO
investigator. So that intrigued me. Back then, I actually started clicking out
old tabloid articles about aliens and craft and you name it, and have my
own little news clicking collection going on. So I really started at a very
early age. Cool. And then so at what point did you figure I
need to put my efforts and spend my time in this. Actually it was
when I read the Condon Committee report. You know, folks read the Common
Committee report. University Cola Will put it out in nineteen sixty nine. If
you read the summary where Edward conn instead that nothing has come of investigation of
the UFOs that would contribute anything anymore to scientific knowledge, you'd go away thinking,
okay, with a the waste of my time in my life. But
if you read the body of data, the number of cases in there that
they investigated but could not explain, really good cases radar data, radar visual
UFOs being chased by military jets, you walk away thinking, well, these
folks ignored some real significant data and there's something to this and it begs to
be investigated. Yeah. I mean, when you read the Condon Report,
which people you can get that online, it's actually a skeptic organization that has
it posts in its entirety. But when you read that purport, it seems
as though Condon, when he came up with that conclusion, didn't even read
the entirety of the report. And some people argue that he didn't. More
than likely he didn't he or if he did, he didn't really agree anyway.
He was very prejudiced in his beliefs, and he did the service to
science from that point of view because he didn't he didn't take it from an
unbiased perspective he was. He was basically or his mind was already made up
in terms of what his conclusions were gonna be. But you know, we
can't. We can blame it. We're Condon for that. But at the
same time, the report, the data still there is anybody with a critical
mind can if they read the entire report, will probably walk away with the
same conclusion that I came to, which is there's something here, there's some
significance here. Yeah. I help people read that report, and then I've
read you know, key host books, and he does a great job following
the history of what had happened during that period of time because he was trying
to assist with the Condon Committee and demonstrating and proving that, in fact,
just exactly what you had said, that Condon had his mind made up before
he even went into this thing exactly. This is kind of a funny post.
I got admitt. You know, we've got a great people in the
chat, but we have one guy that comes in here. He calls himself
pastor Pat and every time he comes in I can't help but mention him to
be such a funny guy. He's, you know, talking about obsu the
UFOs are and stuff like that, and he talks about UFO witnesses drink rum
and they were on rum. So he asked us if mufan would maybe come
up with our own brand of rum. No, I'm not sure, really
sure about that. I know Dan Atkroyd has his own brand of vodka.
But and he's a good supporter, a big supporter of Moveline, But I
think we'll leave it at that. Yeah. Yeah, that he had a
great video out recently where you probably saw he's promoting his vodka and someone asked
him about UFOs and he had a you know, kind of a lengthy answer
about looking into it and how you know they're real and he's looking into it
and all of this stuff. Yeah. Dan's a great guy. We had
had lunch with him in La earlier this year and he's just a real personable
guy. So we're really happy that he's part of the organization. Yeah.
A lot of people ask, you know, what is Dan Aykroyd's rule in
move on? Dan is basically you know, he he's a big supporter of
moufun as an organization, and he's he supports our mission. Uh, he's
basically our Hollywood consultant. So, uh you know, if we if we
want to talk to somebody that's uh in in in the Hollywood star or celebrity,
will less Dan to do the introductions for us. That's what he does
for us. Mm hmm yeah, great advisor and that were you. Have
you seen his two hour or so kind of just like a lengthy interview that
David Sereda put out the the the Uncut video. Yeah, yeah, yes,
I did watch it quite a while ago. Yeah. I thought that
was really impressive, as Dan Accord would certainly very well versed, more so
than many of the people I meet in this field and the history of everything
going on. Oh sure, absolutely, Yeah, when you talk to him
in person, he can quote UFO history in major UFO cases and those major
UFO researchers. He's very well versed in the field. Another question from the
chat and the interesting question as anybody reported as zeno morph the type of creature
that was seen in the movie Alien, the movie Alien, Oh, the
real nasty creatures? Yeah, well, I haven't heard anybody describe it in
you know, the same characteristics, but I think probably the closest would be
the reptilian type entities that folks off of report, but typically they're not bursting
out of your chest or laid eggs. Yeah no, nothing that comes close
to alien. Yeah, yeah, I haven't seen anything like that. Now,
what are the entity types the reports that you see most? Well,
actually they vary. I mean, I think most folks think of the little
alien grays when they think of aliens. But mouf On, actually I shouldn't
say mouf On. One of MUFON's members had bloat your like the believe that
the ways pronounce his name. Back in the very early days, produced a
catalog of the different entities or humanoids that were that we're seeing. And you
can actually see some of those types in our in our Field Investigator manual.
But they come in all shapes and sizes. If you if you review this
catalog of of what entities are describing everything from very human like or human or
creatures to look very human, to those that are insectoid, to you know,
others that look like the Mitchell and man. I mean, they just
come in all shapes and sizes. So to me, it's interesting because I
find the reports that, especially modern day reports, those folks that report very
atypical creatures, not the traditional grays that you see in the media or on
TV, but the things that are varied are very different. To me.
It actually lends more credibility because if somebody were to if somebody really wanted to
make up a story, you know, they were typically wanted to use what
everybody expects aliens to look like or what they see in the media. So
the atypical reports in me are very very interesting. Yeah, and you know,
are there some of those cases that you think perhaps could be genuine.
Actually the case in North Carolina we talked about earlier, the way the principal
witness described those creatures was very atypical. You described them as having some sort
of exoskeleton skin on that was translucent, or exoskeleton food that was translucent,
and they had a face mask that I'd never seen described before. So yeah,
that was interesting in itself. Yeah, well, here's a good segue
into you know what I wanted to get back into. Someone asked, you
know, if you could give a teaser for this symposium, maybe some of
you know what your presentation is going to be about and some of the other
presentations that will have that you're excited about. Sure, Actually I can tell
them a little bit about my own research. I've been doing some extensive research
into the very early days of UFOs, from the time period of nineteen forty
six to nineteen forty seven, and what I found is actually some very intriguing
newspaper articles from nineteen forty seven, two weeks prior to Kenneth Arnold, there
was rumors that the United States had a top secret weapon that outrivaled the atomic
bomb, and you know, the press went wild with speculation what could this
weapon be? And we've thought the atomic bomb was it? And what could
possibly be more powerful than that? And so as I started, you know,
drilling down or doing some more research into this very intriguing story, I
started to see a pattern emerge that leads me to believe that there was no
such weapon, but that there were certain agencies in the government that were putting
this story out there to try to make the Russians the Soviets at the time
think that UFOs were American, that they were an American top secret weapon.
And I had some very good information I think will show that pattern. Now,
the real question would be, well, why would they want to do
that, Why would they want the Russians to think it was ours? Well,
there's a number of reasons why that could be. It could be for
counterintelligence reasons. We knew that we were very heavily infiltrated by Stovie'd espionage at
the time, So one way to unmask spies is to put some very intriguing
out information out there and see who becomes interested in it. Another reason could
be for deterrence. We were afraid that the Russians were on the war path,
and so we wanted them to think that we had something they didn't,
even if they did have some stolen atomic knowledge. So there's a number of
reasons why that could have happened, but I'd like to prove it and like
to prove that that was what was going on. Now, that doesn't detract
at all from the fact that maybe folks were seeing real, real UFOs flying
around, but that maybe these agencies were using that for their own purposes,
which goes back to like earlier recipitions that you know, the UFO field has
been used and abused throughout the years by these various intelligence agencies for their very
for their own purposes, and I'd like to show show that that was a
pattern from the very to you know, mm hmmm, I think that's really
interesting, and I think it's cool, you know, I think that's there's
not a lot of people, researchers, especially no one, you know,
particularly focused on uncovering disinformation programs, and it seems to be some fairly low
hanging fruit, you know, that you could at least prove that there have
been these disinformation projects throughout history where they're trying to make the public or like,
like in this case, the Russians believe one thing or another, and
that using the UFO phenomena as as a tool for that. Well, it's
very possible that the that the government we want to use that term, or
whoever these authority figures are or have been throughout the years, they themselves don't
have a clue what the UFO phenomena is about. They don't understand it.
They can't put their arms around it either, But that doesn't stop them from
using it for their own purposes. Uh Like. I like to think back
to that episode of The X Files where the couples driving down the country road
and the triangle craft comes out of nowhere and abducts them, and these little
gray aliens come out and take them out of their car and then in the
next scene is very large. It's much larger. UFO comes down and abducts
the Gray Aliens and the humans, and then later on in the in the
in the show, they show the Gray Aliens being unmasked as Air Force guys
in disguise. So you know, the real question is who's emulating who.
There's a real phenomena out there that is there. It's always been with us,
it continues to be with us. But these agencies, with with all
of the resources they have and the money they can put into intelligence operations,
are are using it for their own their own purposes. Yeah, I love
that you brought up that episode because I bring that one up a lot also
because it's one of my favorites. It's hilarious, but it goes over a
lot of these themes too. They had some men in black guys, you
know, they had Jesse Ventura within it, I think telling them, Yeah,
the President Jimmy Carter did not see a UFO. He mistaken Venus for
a UFO, and all these these funny, weird quirks. But that's a
good one too, that these guys masquerading to be Grayly and subducting people were
abducted themselves, right, Yeah, that's that's a really interesting episode. So
I think that sounds very cool. I can't wait to see your entire talk,
and worst case, if I'm busy during that time, I'll be able
to buy it, which is always great about the symposiums to watch it at
my leisure. But what are some of the other talks going on that you'd
like to mention or that you're excited to see. Well, we have some
great speakers of the symposium. I'm really excited to see what, For example,
Kevin Randall talks about. He's talking about how science can be brought the
bear on the UFO problem. It's been discussed many times before, but I
think he has a pretty interesting approach to how to use a scientific method to
to go out there and do some serious research. So I'm looking forward to
his talk. We also have Jeffrey Bennett who's going to be talking about UFOs
but from a science perspective in other words, you know, he he wants
to focus on the aspect of, yes, there are civilizations out there in
the universe, so UFOs are a possibility. He doesn't claim the UFOs have
arrived or extraterrestrials have arrived. He wants focus and I think what we all
believe that yes, there's life out there. So I'm looking forward to his
talk. We have Mark d Antonio who is going to be discussing not only
how to handle the skeptical point of view or or when you're talking to somebody
whos a debunker. He's also going to be doing a number of workshops for
US on puttal video analysis. And Frank Salisbury, Doctor Frank Salisbury is a
world class plant physiologists or I don't know the correct term, but he's he's
a professor of plant science and he actually is from the early days and wrote
a book on UFOs over Utah. And he's going to talk about his research
and what he believes as an academic, how you know UFOs can be researched
and how mainstream science can be brought into to bear on that. Of course,
you know, we have our favorite Stan Friedman is going to be there,
and let's see John Ventry will talk. You talk about UFOs over Pennsylvania
and a number of a lot of folks probably don't know unless they've seen our
show UFOs over Earth. The Pennsylvania experienced a major flap of uful activity last
year. I mean just off the charts in terms of what people are seeing
even this year. That's continuing. So he's going to talk about his latest
research. Quite a few good speakers m hm, doctor Frank Salisbury. Was
he able to look into some of that Pennsylvania evidence because John had talked to
us about and it's also in the show about those plants that were covered by
that glary stuff that was sucked back into this craft. Yes, he actually
did look at it. Actually he was. He was not asked to look
at the evidence of the sexasical evans what was positive. He was asked to
look at the research that another professor had done and to give us a second
So it was mostly you know, what is your second opinion about the earlier
research. Okay, so he was on the show then, Yes, of
doctor Franks Alvier was on that show. Okay, yeah, I remember that
now, Okay, cool, So that'll be great. We'll have two different
perspectives on that that Pennsylvania Calase. It was really cool to have John on
and have an update on it because that was some really interesting stuff. Yes,
very interesting. A question from the chat was that has moved on compared
the sightings in Phoenix to Stevenville to Timley Park, et cetera, to see
if there's some sort of commonality between these mass sightings or these flaps. I
don't think we've done any research directly. I'm trying to do recomparisons between those
three events. I know John Schustler is very heavily involved in doing research on
triangles, which you know, the Phenix lights some folks, so they saw
a massive triangle fly over and the same thing with Tinley Park. So yeah,
there hasn't been any direct comparison or of those three cases as far as
I know, mm hmm. And you know, reflecting on all those cases
and other flaps around the world. To me, and except for this triangle
one now and well, except for the triangles, there are flaps of the
triangles. Mexico seems to have flaps of the orb type things. But these
other cases that he's talking about, they seemed to be completely different phenomena each
one of those different cases exactly. I think a lot of times too,
once of something like the Phoenix lights hits them or Stevenville hits the media,
you get a lot of secondary witnesses that come forward and say well I saw
something I mean not even related to the first sighting. So you have to
be able to separate, you know, the original raw data from the subsequent
media and deused activity. So that becomes difficult in of itself, and that
kind of almost touches on something that you had mentioned earlier, which when it
comes to the entity entity, it's a huge variety of different entities that are
seen, and it's also seemingly the same with craft that really, if you
look at the reports we received with move on It, you have some popular
type of shapes and sizes. However there's a much bigger variety of these things
then most people realize, well absolutely, I mean we look back even in
our own case files, I mean they come in all shapes and sizes,
so it's yeah, it's it's even for example that in that Pennsylvania flap,
one of the primary witnesses saw a very strange hexagonal shaped craft, which we
don't get a lot of hexagonal type craft reported to us, so and so
yeah, definitely all types mm hmm. Yeah, And I guess I know
you're touching on a bit into symposium kind of the future of moufon and and
uh research and maybe is there something you can speak to on that in the
last few minutes here. Well, I think the in terms of future research
MOVEFON is going to stick to what it did as best and that's using the
scientific method. But we want to take a more active role in terms of
of basically getting mainstream science involved with this subject. So we're looking at the
fine university that will sponsor scientific symposium and UFOs want to do more of these
research teams that we've done that we're doing now. We have a history team
that's looking at the early days. We have our abduction team that's looking at
abduction data. But we want to keep that going with even more and varied
research. So it's moving forward and going out there and gathering more data through
databases that we acquire from other folks and other organizations and putting that in the
electronic forms and so we can easily search across it. So a lot of
work that needs to be done. Yeah, and I think I like to
think that we are on the hopefully on the cusp of seeing some scientific organization
take this subject on, because for instance, at our symposium we have what
one, two, three, four, five PhDs speaking, and that's not
including Stanton Freedman. A lot of people call him doctor Stanton Freeman, but
he's actually although he is a nuclear physicist, I don't believe he has his
PhD. So, but he's obviously very capable well, and he's done a
lot of work in nuclear physics. So she's definitely you know, knows what
he's talking about. But I mean, that's a lot of scientists right there
exactly, because that's what that's really what sposed what we are. We have
a symposium that's going on. It's a scientific symposium, so folks can hear
the latest research. We're not just here to to fratenize, even though it's
an important part of it. We're here to present the latest data on the
latest evidence and we're looking forward to that. All right, cool, So
people can register for the movef On Symposium still you go to mofon dot com.
That's August sixth through the tenth. The investigator training is all day on
the sixth, right oh six to the ninth, six the ninth, and
or folks can just show up at the Number Tech Center, Maria down on
the Number Tech Center on the day of their choice. August sixth through the
ninth. We'll be selling tickets at the door. They do definitely want to
miss our banquet on Friday night. We will have a few tickets we can
sell at the banquet dinner. It's going to be a very important event,
not only honoring folks within MOFON, but just talking about the history of MOFON
and the proud history that we have. We're planning for a big celebration on
Friday night. Of course, if folks are interested in becoming UFO investigators,
they would want to come to our workshop that's being held August sixth all day
where we're going to take folks through a number of different subjects for how to
go out and active to active UFO investigation. Perfect well, cool, Well,
thanks for being on the show. A lot of I think great information.
So I was excited to have you and so this has been really cool.
Definitely a lot of subjects to talk about, and thanks for being on
the show. Thank you and Andrew take here and for you listeners, thanks
for tuning in. You know, be sure to be here next week where
we'll have someone involved with the symposium on got a few people in mind,
but I've got to actually get their commitments, which I will do. But
you know, thanks for tuning in, thanks for coming into the chat.
We'll talk to you next week. And also thanks to the UFO and Paranormal
Network for having us online. All right, thank to you all later,
you guys have a wonderful summer. Weeks called appreciate with Buda, called appreciate
with Buda, called appreciate with Sunday back, called appreciate with Don, called
prim called prior, called priory, tripical prior PA, tronical pory strama,
typical priory stingram, cynical priory strama, typical priory strama, typical parame and
typical parame and typical diary Madame