You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio
in the UK and around the world. Hello world, You're listening to Eleanor
Wagner's Strange and Scary World here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we'll
always creep in it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all
to my paranormal Closet, where the stories and magic take place. I have
long been intrigued by near death experiences and to can for myself to write a
chapter on this subject in my Warren County Hauntings book in the other Strange Phenomena
chapters. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the terminology, a near
death experience that takes place on the brink of death is recounted by the individual
who experiences it after recovery, typically an out of body experience accompanied with a
vision of tunnel of light. On today's show, I will be introduced send
you to a panel of individuals who have all experienced a near death experience of
their own, and I'm extremely thankful to them for agreeing to come on the
show to openly discuss their experience and allow me the opportunity to have a discussion
with them about it. All I can say is that from interviewing people who
have had near death experiences, they've told me it's a life changing event.
Most of them hesitated to openly share the experience with someone other than another near
death experiencer for the fear of ridicule or on acceptance. So thank you to
you all in advance fear participation. First off, I'm going to introduce each
individual and share a bit of background information on them before we dive into the
experienced discussion. Ran Forrest was born in New Jersey and he lived in New
Jersey most of his life. He is a former employee of Beryl Lynch for
twenty years, and he lived in California for a bit with his wife of
forty years. He has two boys in their thirties now a two year old
granddaughter I just left earned named Eleanor. He is on disability now due to
his epilepsy which caused him to die for a little over four minutes and experience
the near death episode which changed his life. Join me in welcoming Brian.
Hi. Brian, Hi, Eleanor, how are you? Thanks for joining
me today? Kathy McDaniel, or MK McDaniel, as she is known to
her readers, is the author of the memoir Misfit in Hell to Heaven expat
While dying from lung failure in nineteen ninety nine, she was placed on a
ventilator and put into a drug induced coma. A distressing near death experience occurred,
and, although mostly traumatic, she also experienced the overwhelming bliss of heaven,
which shifted her religious beliefs to a deep spirituality. She now makes it
her mission to share her experience and its messenger as a guest on various media
outlets. Please join me and welcoming Katin. Hi, Hi, Thanks Eleanor.
I appreciate you you doo. You know I've been meaning to ask Kathy,
what what made you give it such an odd name? The book the
voices they told me what to do. Misfit in Hell comes from the fact
that when I was having this hellish experience, no matter what they told me
to do, I'd bucket, you know, I just honoory about things and
then have An expat refers to the fact that we're all having expets. An
expatriot is someone who starts from their home country. They go visit another country,
they get their work done, and then they go home. And since
we all start and have then come down to earth the work and then go
home, we're all having expets. Interesting, Okay. So I know that
everybody's near death experience is different from each other's. They have similarities, of
course, but there are many differences in the comparisons. When you make so,
Brian, what happened to you in your death experience? Tell us what
happened exactly? Well, it started, as I guess when I did die,
is well before that is my grandmother's. Two people I met when I
crossed over, my grandmother and my father in law. With my grandmother,
it started when she was almost ready to pass away. I brought her up
by me and put her in nursing home and was visiting her. And the
one day I was going there and I'm sitting there, I'm holding her hand,
I'm my grandma. It's okay, it's you can go, We're fine.
Grandpa's waiting for you. It's okay. And it turned out that night
she passed away, and I found out from my wife was the following day
is the date of my grandfather died. She was trying to hang on for
that. And then with my father in law, as he got older,
he used to always take me and my wife if we needed if we didn't
have a riot, he'd bring us places. And as he got older,
I would take him into town to do shopping and stuff. And when anybody
ever saw him, they would say, Hi, how are you. He's
like, ah, I woke up this morning. So I started saying the
same thing, but just with him, you know, I wouldn't say it
around the rest of the family because he had a lot of kids. He
had eight kids, and they always thought he was corny. So I just
set it in front of and nobody else. For me. Luckily was we
were backing into the er and I was having another seizure. When I crossed
over. I wound up going to my grandmother's house. She lived in Patterson,
and I was walking down the street and I walked in the front door,
which back in the day we never used, but anyway we went.
I walked in the front door that the house, walked in and saw her
there, and two things stood out was she looked a little bit younger,
and she didn't have her glasses on. And her first thing was to me
was like, Brian, you have to go back. I was like,
what what are you talking about, Grahadma. She because it's not your time,
it's you have to go back, Brian, go back. I was
like, but Grahama and she's like no, Brian, and I was like
okay. So I gave her a kiss and I walked out the back door,
which as a little kid, that's the way we always came in.
So I walked out the back door and I was walking down the alley because
it's Patterson's the city, and walking down the alley was I could see her
house and the neighbor's house on either side, but above me was very like
clouds, big puffy clouds were right there. And I got to the street
and I crossed the street, and when I crossed, I was all of
a sudden in my in laws front yard, which they lived like fifty five
miles apart. They're not even so yeah, So I crossed the street and
I was in my in law's front yard, said. I walked up to
the door and I knocked on the door and walked in because that's what we
used to do, and he was in there. So I walked in.
I said, hey, junior, how are you. I shook his hand.
He's like, oh, good, Brian. He goes, how are
you. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, he goes,
oh, he goes. One thing I wanted to tell you, Brian.
He goes, if you're up here, he goes, you can't say.
I woke up this morning. I looked at it. I was like,
oh, I was you. Then it dawned on you and I was like,
I said, okay, Junior. I shook his hand, I said
I'll see you later, and I walked walked out. But one of the
main things that stuck out to me the most was when I was a kid
nineteen, I had gotten a motorcycle accident broke my back, and then when
the epilepsy started in twenty fifteen, I got in another accident and broke my
back again, and I had half surgery and I got metal and stuff back
there. So my ba, I've been in pain for almost forty years.
You know, it's crazy. The one thing that's really stood out was when
I was up there with my grandmother and my father in law, I had
no pain, and for for that that was the greatest thing of all.
But when I said why to my father in law. I walked out in
the house, and that's when apparently they brought me back. Ah. I
thought I was going, like you said earlier, I was a little over
four minutes. I was going, Wow, longer than that. Your experience
differs in that, like Brian clearly just went to heaven. Yeah, but
you had a far different experience. You want to tell us about that.
I was born and raised a Catholic, and I was very devoted one.
I went to Catholic schools my whole education, and we were taught certain things
that there was a heaven, a purgatory, and a hell, and once
you died, almost everybody went to purgatory, no matter about Jesus dying for
your sins. There was this like caveat, there'll be extra for you to
pay for. So I believe that with my whole heart and soul. I
believed that's what was going to happen to me when I died. So when
I did, I was, like you say, I was in a coma
for almost three weeks, at which time they told my parents and family I
probably wasn't gonna make it, you know, say you're goodbye. So I
slipped out of there and I first found myself in the void, which is
that black, totally black, no sound, no sensation feeling, which is
very disorienting. It's not bad, but it's just very different. And having
been there for in the terminate amount of time, since there's no time over
there, I started seeing the scene kind of behind me there. It started
getting this reddish glow and there was a thick, roiling fog. And then
I heard this horrible voice come out and said, do you know where you
are? And I thought, oh, dear hell, and he just said
woah, this horrible laugh, and I turned and ran into the darkness,
and that's when the adventure started, and my hellish experience came In segments,
the lights would be off. I'd stop because I didn't know where I was
or if I was going to fall or run into something, and then the
lights would come up and there would be a situation. Most of them included
demons or a very unpleasant situation where the demons would tell me this is my
job, and it would be a terrible situation. I don't like to talk
about it, and I would say, no, I'm not going to do
that. You know, that's disgusting, it's immoral. And I'm not going
to do it well. The lights would go out, the lights would come
up, and I'd find myself somewhere else. There was a road. Sometimes
in between these segments, I'd be on this road that went to nowhere.
It was just desolate on both sides. Sometimes I'd run into other beings that
appeared to be human, and then other times they weren't. And each situation
got worse as I plotted along. Who knows how long it's there's no time,
like I said, over there, And then I got to one that
I thought couldn't get any worse, and again I was being a brat,
and they told me that, well, I don't want to give the whole
thing away. But I made my last attempt at being obnoxious, and it
had something to do with singing at Christmas Carol. And when I got to
where the name Jesus would have come out, things changed. If I didn't
say the word, but things change, And I was like boom into this
glorious, warm, light, love, bliss situation and it was just ineffable.
You can't describe how wonderful it is. And I had been taking care
of my former fiance who had leukemian. Because I'd taken care of him for
nine months, I got very run down, caught the flu, and now
I was dying. So he had died, but that was a month before,
and he was there in this blissful great place, and I thought,
oh, shoot, he doesn't know he's dead, because he looked all happy
and glad to see me. And when I thought that, he started laughing,
and I thought. I didn't say that out loud, you know,
And I thought, oh my gosh, if he's dead, then I must
be dead, and it's like the best news ever. And I said,
hey, why are we just standing here? Come on, let's go show
me around. And he just said, oh, Mary kay, you've got
too much left to do. And I thought, huh, they're throwing me
out. I was kicking and screaming, literally, and but I went boom,
the lights went out, and when the lights came up, I was
instilled in the ICU and my family was happy and I was not. I'm
curious as to what that void was. I'm wondering in my head. Is
it something that someone who goes through a coma has to deal with? That?
Boy, you don't think so, it's very common very for both kinds
of It's just for me, it felt like kind of a waiting room,
you know, I mean, you're switching gears and this is a place to
just chill. And some people, Nancy Evans Bush had a bad experience in
the void. There's these creatures that came and were talking to her, and
she had an unpleasant experience. But most people report it's just dark and quiet.
It's almost like a bomb feeling. I would think, you know,
you're just just settled down for a minute, and it's going to get wild.
Wow. So why do you think you had an experience in both heaven
and hell? Because I've read your book and I know that you are no
different than a lot of other people. Why would you do you think that
experience of both. Well, it took me ten years before I could find
somebody that would listen to my story and be compassionate and understanding. And that's
you know, a series of synchronicity sent me to Seattle to an ia NDS
meeting International Association of Near Death Studies, and that's thousands of people who've had
near death experiences. And when I listened, you know, I went to
a couple of meetings and everybody's talking about the angels and the puppies and the
rainbows, and I say, yeah, that's not what happened to me.
And so they explaining, well, it's okay. You know, about fifteen
to twenty percent of people that have a near death experience have what's called something
that's distressing, and that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean
anything other than you had a different experience for a number of reasons. I
believe now, you know, this is almost twenty four years later, coming
up at the end of this month, that we all preplan our lives.
We you know, come down, we live what we plan to do.
And I planned this, and for whatever reason, what was I thinking keeps
going through my head. But I think now it's because I can't tell you
how many people I talk to that have the distressing ones are recovering Catholics.
I think that, you know, we were taught that this would happen,
and I think I manifested it. You know, I thought, oh,
this is supposed to happen. I'll take all the really bad things that happened
in my life and I'll make a really good hell. And I did,
and I've talked to so many people that say, yeah, I had these
segments. You know, it was different things that happened. So I was
sent back. I think to tell people, don't manifest your own hell,
you don't have to. God is all loving, all forgiving. You get
a life review, it's not bad. It's just to understand how you did
your own report card. You give yourself. Yeah, I could have done
a little bit better there. Wow, I knocked it out of the park
over here. It's so much different than what we were taught. And I
think that's why I'm back, is to give people that assurance. I had
a ten year old little boy come into I was selling books up in Bremerton
at a book fair. Little tiny guy came up and my book sitting there,
and he stood there for a minute and he looked at me and he
says, what's going on at the book And I thought, uh, you
know, what do you say? Well? Well, well, I says,
I had, you know, kind of when I died, I had
kind of an unfortunate experience. But I think I had that because I was
taught that that would happen to me. I says, God is all loving
and all forgiving and would never send anybody to hell. And he says,
I just came from church ten minutes ago and he pointed at me life.
I needed to hear that, and off he went, you know, and
I thought, that's why I'm back. I didn't sell one darn book at
that thing, but I talked to three people that needed to talk to me.
You planted that seed that you needed to plan now. You had said
you have a life review, right, Yes, what are both your views
on reincarnation? Do we get to live again and do it over again and
try and fix the errors of our first experience? Are we able to live
again to learn more experiences? So I'd like to know both of your views
on reincarnation. Why don't we start with you, Kathy, since you were
talking about the review, and then Brian, you can tell me I believe
in it now. I you know, I couldn't before because that was against
the Catholic Church's teaching. But having talked to so many people, I totally
believe it. Yeah, and we get to plan, We get to plan
where we go next, you know, or you can hang out, or
you could take a break. There's all Eternity is a long time, lots
to do, how about you, Brian. Well with me, I'm not
religious at all. Our families aren't religious. What I take out of it
is, I mean, I look up because where I live in New Jersey,
where out in the country, and there's no lights, so you walk
outside and you see hundreds and thousands of stars and I look up at them
and say, hey, all those stars they're all suns. How many planets
are around each one of those? And my thinking is that we're not the
only living orgasms in this entire place. There's a ton of other you call
them aliens, I guess. So I think when we pass on, is
that's just our next step to another life and we live for who knows,
Maybe it's thousands of years, who knows, Maybe we get to finally meet
the other whatever aliens forms that are out there. Yeah, that's just the
way. Because I'm not a religious person, but yeah, so I think
we just we continue to go on and just meet new types of life forms.
Do you believe in a higher power that's in control of it all,
that created it all? I don't know. I think it's just the progress
of it. Could be the same with other living forms. They live like
us. They you know, are born, and they taught as they grow
up, and you just keep learning as you go on. So to people
that these other life forms that maybe have been up there for ten thousand years
are so much more advanced than know, so much more than us, that
it just keeps going. So I don't think there's a higher power. I
think it's just all these life forms are just so more advanced and more than
we can even imagine. So now it's for me personally, I don't think
there's a higher power. How did you feel after your near depth experience?
In a way, like I said, is because I had no pain,
for not in forty years, finally not having pain. I enjoyed that.
But I had, of course my wife and my boys to come back to,
which I, thank goodness came back. Yeah, So that I enjoyed.
Probably the most is coming back to see everybody. But I know,
moving forward though, when when it actually does happen, I don't have to
worry, is you know, I'll see whoever other family I guess up there
say hello. Yeah. I mean even when it happened, my mom asked
me, she goes, why didn't you see Grandpa? Why didn't why did
you see your father in law, which Junior is his name. I was
like, I don't know, Mom, I don't write this stuff. That's
the way it happened. Yeah, So that's why I think we do I
see. I think we just meet and we get to yeah meet. Oh,
this is your great great great great great grandmother, grandfather, you know.
And I think it's always something that's reckednizable to you, you know what
I mean. My dad came to me the day that he died, and
I'm not saying it was a near death experience. It was him letting me
know that he passed. And ironically enough, the person that met him at
the gates was my husband's aunt, who had died the year before, and
they knew each other briefly, you know, but not really very long time.
I mean just because we were only married a short time, my husband
and I, so he only met her a handful of times. But she
greeted him. She's like, hi, Carl, come on in. There
are others here that want to see you, and she walks them into a
circle of lighted beings that weren't in body form, they were just lighted beings.
And I was receiving all of his emotions during this whole vision that I
had, and I knew exactly who all those lighted beings were. They were
his deceased siblings, his parents, his best friend who had died the year
before, and they all embraced him. They all enveloped him, and shortly
thereafter they separated to allow a young woman to come forward who embraced him,
and she said, Hi, Dad, it's me Caroline, which was my
sister who was his namesake, who had died young, and here she was
a grown woman in heaven. So it was it was it's not a near
death experience, but it's interesting that you know that they meet their loved ones
that are there to greet them and bring them on into whatever adventure they're headed
for in the the after. So how did you feel like you're near death
experience? Kathy? Okay, there was a lot she talked about there about
you asked at first about source. Is that what you're talking about? How
I feel? I believe? Oh yeah, God is everything. You know,
there was a couple of things that I had learned as in school as
a kindergartner. You know, who is God? God is love? Where
is God? God is everywhere? And those two are true with all the
dark matter they're talking about now and all that. I think that's God.
God is everything, and and we just take certain forms this time. We're
human, and like Brian says, you can be a Martian next time or
something. But I believe that God is everything. God is love. So
after your near death experience, what did it make you feel about having Well,
I know you said that you were angry at your family because they were
praying for your recovery and you didn't want to come back that much. I
remember you saying, So, how did I feel when I came back devastated?
Yeah? I was. I wait, these six pounds, I mean
I'd see you. Yeah, I was a mess. I to go from
this total bliss and joy and and completeness back to earth was just a terrible
shock for me. Yeah. It took what you feeling is about my life
back before your experience, well, oh our year. Yeah, it took
you to get Oh yeah, well, I said I had. I was
in the ICU for three weeks, and then I was in a physical rehab
facility for a month, and then I had to learn how to walk and
talk and do everything again. I was eighty six pounds I lost all my
muscle mass and muscle memory. I was like a baby, and there I
was fifty three years old and helpless. So it took a long time to
be able to function. And in this whole time, I'm remembering how blissful
and wonderful and that it was, and I was pretty depressed. Wow to
say that we're not afraid, pardon me, am I not afraid to die?
Oh no, I look forward to it. I want to get my
work done so I can go home. Yeah, no problem. What about
you, Briandy, afraid to die? Are you ready to go if you
have to? Uh? Now, I would say yeah, because I know
I'm going to be meeting family, and I'll see friends up there because I
have I'm fortunately a lot of high school friends that have already passed away.
Yeah not a real lie, you know, like four or five. But
still they were like really good friends of mine. So I mean, I
look forward to seeing him when I got up there. You know, we're
seeing family. It should be good. Yeah. I mean, of course
i'd be sad leaving my boys and my granddaughter. Yeah, but knowing that
down the road is I'll see them when they come up to see me.
Yeah, and it's wild that Kathy with you. I've learned from interviewing people
last I was going to say that, Kathy, you said that you were
fifty three when this happened to you. I was fifty four when it happened
to me. Yeah. That's a good life. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's pretty wild. Yeah, it is. I've learned from interviewing people
these last several years that as a person who's passed on, we are able
to come back anytime we want to visit our family members that are here.
They just need to be open and ready to accept our visitors, because those
little nuances that our decease left one send us are undoubtedle they're there, they
happen, and if you're openly recepted to receiving them, you'll know when it's
happening and you will be ecstatic at having that feeling. So I guess the
first thing to tell everybody is make sure you just pay attention. Listen.
They're there. They're always around us. And when I'm doing a paranormal investigate
investigation and I'm there with the spirit and I'm trying to help them cross over,
I try to explain to them, you're kind of stuck in this void
right now, and I know it's comfortable to you and you're happy in it.
But if you go to that light, you can come back anytime you
want to, so you'll be in this wonderful place. And I'm sure that
ninety nine percent of the time they're going to want to go up there and
not come back, right So I get very excited when we're able to help
somebody move on. You do get the occasional spirit that doesn't want to.
But those stories are so poignant when people get those messages, and I always
tell them that they're personal to them too. I mean, you could pick
any kind of sign from your loved one, and it could be a coin,
it could be a cloud, it could be a bird or birds in
general, or a dragonfly, butterfly, whatever you think is yours. It's
personal to you. And if you see it, don't let anyone tell you
that it's not real. Don't let anyone tell you that I'll gosh, that's
nothing that didn't happen. Yes it did. And if you believe it did,
receive it and accept it. That's what I say. So it's kind
of cool to know that we can come back anytime we want you believe it's
happened actually a few times and not with me, but when actually I pass
my wife felt something go through her chest and she thinks for sure it was
her brother, because when she was really young, her brother died and he
was only like nineteen or twenty years old. And the other thing is that
the song Old Black Water from the Doobie Brothers. Anytime something major in the
family happens, that song, for some reason always comes on and everybody's like,
hey, Al's here. And then the other thing that just happened because
my birthday was the beginning of October, and my older son had a party
with the family at his house for me, and my sister in law was
there and her husband, my brother in law, just passed away July twenty
ninth. He had cancer. So we're at the party and July August September,
so to over two months have gone by since he passed away. My
younger son is sitting at and we're sting in there, and he asked my
sister in law. He's like, hey, Kelly, goes, do you
have Danny's phone on you? She's like, no, why would I He
come walks over to her. He shows me, shows her that Danny's on
his phone. Danny's like connected to him. So I looked up. I
was like, thanks for coming to my party, Dan, They definitely want
to go. They spot they come back here and check on us. I
think you lea yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, there's no doubt in my
mind that that's the case. And if somebody tells me otherwise, and Mike,
sorry, I don't believe you. I've way too many experiences of my
own to have any doubts about it, because it's just too too clear to
me, right, too clear to me. I know that you have done
a lot of work in the near death experience, Kathy, and so you've
been able to speak to I'm sure hundreds of people who've had experiences because you've
go to conventions and stuff. There are there any native or challenging aspects to
refe the having in your death experience? Have you spoken to anybody who's struggled
with life afterwards? Oh? Yeah, the ones that have had the distressing
experiences. It's very tough. Again, there's shame and fear that follow you.
You can't you know, you don't know what it is that you you
did it was so terrible that you deserve that, and every time you try
and tell somebody about it, that's the first thing my mom said. She
says, well, Kathy, what did you do that we don't know about?
You know? And I was like, there's no good answer to that.
So there's a shame and fear until you can finally find a safe place
to talk about it was somebody that ideally had the same experience. And I'm
with the Irons group and I started a Distressing Your Death Experience group a couple
of years ago now and we meet once a month, and people who've had
this experience, many of them that come to our meetings have never told a
soul what happened until they, you know, come to a meeting or two
and feel safe, and then after that there's just they're like different. There's
this burden that comes off when you realize that was not alish thing from God
and it was just you know, you thought you would have that happen,
and you've got to be careful about manifesting. Wow, that's so interesting.
M I just was thinking something. You just said something and it put it
thought in my head and it's left me. Now, I don't know why
I hate it must be it's going in and one out with the groups that
you have You ever heard any of these groups before? Brian that she the
near death experiences. I know that. When I was writing the chapter on
near death experiences, everybody that I spoke to was saying to me that they
don't really talk to people about it. They talk to other near death experiences
because they can share that experience with them. But to let somebody like me
the outside they're in and tell me their story was a privilege. And I
have developed great relationships with the people that I have interviewed because of that.
I really did appreciate the fact that they shared that with me, because they
do deal with people who are against whatever it is that they have to say
or give them a hard time or ridicule or whatever way you want to describe
it, so that it's a shame that somebody just can't be supportive as opposed
to the You're probably the only one outside of my family that I've talked to
about it. I mean, I got a gigantic family. Yeah, there's
enough people within the family. Yeah, but from somebody that we're not related
to, you're the only one. And I've ever told. You know,
the whole story to her is you. And when you asked me, I
was like, was fine with me? I didn't care. I was like,
somebody's actually interested. I didn't think anybody really cared. Yeah, I
was happy to tell you about it. We should put you. We should
put you in contact with these near death experience groups that Kathy knows of,
just in case you want to participate or meet other people who have had experiences
just like yourself that you can share in those discussions. But I'm sure it
helps to take the burden off too, and understanding and so on. Yeah.
Have to do is go to i a n ds dot org and a
whole whole different world will open to up to you. There's so many different
kinds of sharing groups and speakers, and it's free and it's amazing. I
think you'll feel it home. Yeah, I have to try. I have
to check it out because even just here talking with you, somebody else that's
went through it. Yeah, because people I talk to family and the other
my other friends, nobody's ever went through it before. So yeah, it
is. It's kind of cool to be able to talk to somebody that's came
back at least you know I went and came back. Yeah, we're privileged.
Yeah from that experience. Yeah, I know this is random, Kathy,
But how many podcasts have you been on to date? I know you
kept it tally. Yeah, about one hundred and twenty five. Yeah,
they're amazing and one it's called The Other Side. That one's had over a
million views. So you know, I can go You can go to a
book fair and talk to three people. You get on a podcast. So
between all of those, there's several million people who've heard my story, which
is why I was sent back. And I'm telling you when I was laying
in that bed in the hospital, unable to move or talk or breathe and
I've got this, You've got too much left to do before you get to
go home, that was like overwhelming. I can't even breathe. How am
I going to reach all these people? And then the first time I had
somebody calling, it was Kirsty Salisbury from New Zealand saying I watch all my
podcast and it's like it, what's a podcast? And I can't go to
New Zealand. No, No, you get on the intery. You know,
I didn't know anything. And so that one led to this one,
and that one led to that one, and then you know, God works
in strange ways. But if that's what I was meant to do. I
pre planned all this stuff. I was very smart. And you know,
just you just have to you have to go with it and say, well,
show up. That's all you got to do. Show up. The
doors will open. Like you and your job and going to North Carolina and
all that stuff. You just show up, the doors will open. Yeah,
it just go with the flow, right, be optimistic. I always
My husband's not very much pessimist, not the optimist, and I keep on
telling him, just go with the flow. It'll all happened the way it's
meant to happen. You don't, don't fear it, just receive it and
accept it. So you have this beautiful prayer that you share with everybody.
In fact, you put it on a lovely bookmark, and I know it
by heart now. It's Lord helped me to be loving, kind, useful,
merciful, forgiving, grateful, and non judgmental. Right, So where'd
you come up with that prayer? Why those specific things wine merciful for you?
I don't know. Brian has this, but when usually when you come
back. Whatever you sensed as your conscience or your guardian angel or whatever gets
very loud, and this voice is very loud. And when I had been
back for quite some time, I still had this little, tiny fear that
when I died again, I'd go to that awful place. And so obviously
what I had been doing wasn't working. So I prayed and said, Okay,
God, I need some positive things to do to focus on, you
know, to keep me on the right track. And a couple of days
later, in my head, I just turned loving and kind, loving and
kind, be loving and kind, and so I thought, great, that's
all I got to do. But like you said later, it was loving,
kind, merciful and forgiving came and courage, being grateful, the non
judgmental and useful. So that's a good way to start my day, is
just say, Dear God, help me. And if you can't remember anything
else, it's just be loving and kind. I mean, if you're somebody's
honking on you at the freeway, somebody you know, cuts in line at
the grocery store, whatever, loving and kind, just take a breath and
you know, let it go and your whole life changes. It's so much
easier to be on this earth when you just let all that stuff go and
just work on being loving and kind. Very true. Do you have any
questions Brian for Kathy No, I was just going to say, is like
I said, I'm not a religious person, and I have no problem obviously
with anybody being religious. It's you know, to your own thing. But
like what Kathy was just saying is to me, there's already like God is
here on the earth and a lot of different people and you can see is
the thing that popped in my head when she was saying that was John Lennon
from the Beatles his song Imagine, Yeah, yeah, imagine that we all
live in peace and love. So it's it starts with us. I think
you go to look for me since I'm not religious God, it's we're all
right here. God is here on walking around obviously, not the psychos that
are doing this. I understand what you mean. Like John Lennon said,
you know, it's and there's a lot of people out there like that.
Yeah, right, Kathy. Do you have any questions for Brian? No,
I don't. I mean that was his experience and I honor that.
There you go, I know that you have your book out there, Kathy,
would you like to tell everybody out here how they can find your book
and look at you if they need to. The book has got a long
title, but you know the reason now. But it's on Amazon, Barges
and Noble any place that you couldn't buy books. And I have a website
that is also the name of the book. You just put the www the
name of the book dot com and there's a lot of information about me and
you can email me there if you want to talk to me or ask me
any questions. Yeah, I'd be glad to help refresh us on the book's
name again, it is Misfit in Hell to Heaven expat. Then you go,
well, this has been such an amazing discussion. I want to thank
you all for joining us. Say I'm sad that Jack Gregory was not able
to get here in time, but we had the opportunity to discuss things with
each other. So is there any kind of final message that you would like
to leave everybody with, Brian before you, I think, like Kathy said,
is just live life and peace and be kind to everybody. That's a
Kathy. Just don't fear death. God loves us unconditionally and would never send
anybody to hell. Don't send yourself a good advice thereful. Thank you all
again, and if you like listening to this week's episode and you're into AOL,
thanks Paranormal. Check out my other show, Eleanor Wagner's Creeping at Real
podcast out of the Coast to Coast Entertainment Network, which is available wherever you
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