1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:06,599 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best in paranormal talk radio 2 00:00:06,799 --> 00:00:13,759 in the UK and around the world. Hello world, You're listening to Eleanor 3 00:00:13,839 --> 00:00:19,719 Wagner's Strange and Scary World here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network, where we'll 4 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:25,440 always creep in it real. I'm your host, Eleanor Wagner. Welcome all 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,920 to my paranormal Closet, where the stories and magic take place. I have 6 00:00:30,039 --> 00:00:34,479 long been intrigued by near death experiences and to can for myself to write a 7 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:39,719 chapter on this subject in my Warren County Hauntings book in the other Strange Phenomena 8 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,439 chapters. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the terminology, a near 9 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:49,759 death experience that takes place on the brink of death is recounted by the individual 10 00:00:49,759 --> 00:00:55,640 who experiences it after recovery, typically an out of body experience accompanied with a 11 00:00:55,719 --> 00:01:00,240 vision of tunnel of light. On today's show, I will be introduced send 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:03,439 you to a panel of individuals who have all experienced a near death experience of 13 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:07,319 their own, and I'm extremely thankful to them for agreeing to come on the 14 00:01:07,359 --> 00:01:12,079 show to openly discuss their experience and allow me the opportunity to have a discussion 15 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:18,040 with them about it. All I can say is that from interviewing people who 16 00:01:18,079 --> 00:01:23,040 have had near death experiences, they've told me it's a life changing event. 17 00:01:23,599 --> 00:01:27,519 Most of them hesitated to openly share the experience with someone other than another near 18 00:01:27,599 --> 00:01:33,280 death experiencer for the fear of ridicule or on acceptance. So thank you to 19 00:01:33,359 --> 00:01:38,120 you all in advance fear participation. First off, I'm going to introduce each 20 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:42,799 individual and share a bit of background information on them before we dive into the 21 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,840 experienced discussion. Ran Forrest was born in New Jersey and he lived in New 22 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,040 Jersey most of his life. He is a former employee of Beryl Lynch for 23 00:01:52,079 --> 00:01:55,280 twenty years, and he lived in California for a bit with his wife of 24 00:01:55,359 --> 00:01:59,000 forty years. He has two boys in their thirties now a two year old 25 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,840 granddaughter I just left earned named Eleanor. He is on disability now due to 26 00:02:02,879 --> 00:02:08,479 his epilepsy which caused him to die for a little over four minutes and experience 27 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,879 the near death episode which changed his life. Join me in welcoming Brian. 28 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,400 Hi. Brian, Hi, Eleanor, how are you? Thanks for joining 29 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:23,120 me today? Kathy McDaniel, or MK McDaniel, as she is known to 30 00:02:23,159 --> 00:02:28,840 her readers, is the author of the memoir Misfit in Hell to Heaven expat 31 00:02:29,319 --> 00:02:32,240 While dying from lung failure in nineteen ninety nine, she was placed on a 32 00:02:32,319 --> 00:02:38,360 ventilator and put into a drug induced coma. A distressing near death experience occurred, 33 00:02:38,439 --> 00:02:43,280 and, although mostly traumatic, she also experienced the overwhelming bliss of heaven, 34 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:47,000 which shifted her religious beliefs to a deep spirituality. She now makes it 35 00:02:47,039 --> 00:02:53,560 her mission to share her experience and its messenger as a guest on various media 36 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:58,599 outlets. Please join me and welcoming Katin. Hi, Hi, Thanks Eleanor. 37 00:02:59,199 --> 00:03:05,479 I appreciate you you doo. You know I've been meaning to ask Kathy, 38 00:03:05,719 --> 00:03:12,039 what what made you give it such an odd name? The book the 39 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:16,960 voices they told me what to do. Misfit in Hell comes from the fact 40 00:03:17,039 --> 00:03:22,000 that when I was having this hellish experience, no matter what they told me 41 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:25,800 to do, I'd bucket, you know, I just honoory about things and 42 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,400 then have An expat refers to the fact that we're all having expets. An 43 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:38,360 expatriot is someone who starts from their home country. They go visit another country, 44 00:03:38,599 --> 00:03:40,400 they get their work done, and then they go home. And since 45 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:44,599 we all start and have then come down to earth the work and then go 46 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:49,639 home, we're all having expets. Interesting, Okay. So I know that 47 00:03:49,719 --> 00:03:53,360 everybody's near death experience is different from each other's. They have similarities, of 48 00:03:53,400 --> 00:04:00,560 course, but there are many differences in the comparisons. When you make so, 49 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:02,879 Brian, what happened to you in your death experience? Tell us what 50 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,960 happened exactly? Well, it started, as I guess when I did die, 51 00:04:11,919 --> 00:04:16,399 is well before that is my grandmother's. Two people I met when I 52 00:04:16,439 --> 00:04:23,360 crossed over, my grandmother and my father in law. With my grandmother, 53 00:04:24,399 --> 00:04:30,360 it started when she was almost ready to pass away. I brought her up 54 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:35,399 by me and put her in nursing home and was visiting her. And the 55 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:39,800 one day I was going there and I'm sitting there, I'm holding her hand, 56 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:43,319 I'm my grandma. It's okay, it's you can go, We're fine. 57 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,199 Grandpa's waiting for you. It's okay. And it turned out that night 58 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,839 she passed away, and I found out from my wife was the following day 59 00:04:51,879 --> 00:04:56,120 is the date of my grandfather died. She was trying to hang on for 60 00:04:56,240 --> 00:05:02,680 that. And then with my father in law, as he got older, 61 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,279 he used to always take me and my wife if we needed if we didn't 62 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,439 have a riot, he'd bring us places. And as he got older, 63 00:05:10,519 --> 00:05:15,000 I would take him into town to do shopping and stuff. And when anybody 64 00:05:15,079 --> 00:05:18,120 ever saw him, they would say, Hi, how are you. He's 65 00:05:18,199 --> 00:05:23,560 like, ah, I woke up this morning. So I started saying the 66 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,639 same thing, but just with him, you know, I wouldn't say it 67 00:05:26,639 --> 00:05:30,279 around the rest of the family because he had a lot of kids. He 68 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:33,279 had eight kids, and they always thought he was corny. So I just 69 00:05:33,319 --> 00:05:41,600 set it in front of and nobody else. For me. Luckily was we 70 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,199 were backing into the er and I was having another seizure. When I crossed 71 00:05:46,199 --> 00:05:53,199 over. I wound up going to my grandmother's house. She lived in Patterson, 72 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:59,879 and I was walking down the street and I walked in the front door, 73 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:03,959 which back in the day we never used, but anyway we went. 74 00:06:04,279 --> 00:06:10,319 I walked in the front door that the house, walked in and saw her 75 00:06:10,319 --> 00:06:15,839 there, and two things stood out was she looked a little bit younger, 76 00:06:15,759 --> 00:06:19,839 and she didn't have her glasses on. And her first thing was to me 77 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:25,040 was like, Brian, you have to go back. I was like, 78 00:06:25,519 --> 00:06:28,480 what what are you talking about, Grahadma. She because it's not your time, 79 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,959 it's you have to go back, Brian, go back. I was 80 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,360 like, but Grahama and she's like no, Brian, and I was like 81 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:39,959 okay. So I gave her a kiss and I walked out the back door, 82 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,399 which as a little kid, that's the way we always came in. 83 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,040 So I walked out the back door and I was walking down the alley because 84 00:06:48,079 --> 00:06:55,120 it's Patterson's the city, and walking down the alley was I could see her 85 00:06:55,160 --> 00:07:00,199 house and the neighbor's house on either side, but above me was very like 86 00:07:00,399 --> 00:07:04,680 clouds, big puffy clouds were right there. And I got to the street 87 00:07:04,959 --> 00:07:10,680 and I crossed the street, and when I crossed, I was all of 88 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:16,879 a sudden in my in laws front yard, which they lived like fifty five 89 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:24,199 miles apart. They're not even so yeah, So I crossed the street and 90 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,040 I was in my in law's front yard, said. I walked up to 91 00:07:28,079 --> 00:07:31,480 the door and I knocked on the door and walked in because that's what we 92 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,040 used to do, and he was in there. So I walked in. 93 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,040 I said, hey, junior, how are you. I shook his hand. 94 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,000 He's like, oh, good, Brian. He goes, how are 95 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,720 you. I was like, oh, yeah, okay, he goes, 96 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:46,759 oh, he goes. One thing I wanted to tell you, Brian. 97 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,920 He goes, if you're up here, he goes, you can't say. 98 00:07:49,959 --> 00:07:54,839 I woke up this morning. I looked at it. I was like, 99 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:01,319 oh, I was you. Then it dawned on you and I was like, 100 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:03,920 I said, okay, Junior. I shook his hand, I said 101 00:08:03,959 --> 00:08:11,040 I'll see you later, and I walked walked out. But one of the 102 00:08:11,079 --> 00:08:16,160 main things that stuck out to me the most was when I was a kid 103 00:08:16,639 --> 00:08:22,759 nineteen, I had gotten a motorcycle accident broke my back, and then when 104 00:08:22,839 --> 00:08:28,560 the epilepsy started in twenty fifteen, I got in another accident and broke my 105 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,759 back again, and I had half surgery and I got metal and stuff back 106 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:39,919 there. So my ba, I've been in pain for almost forty years. 107 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:45,639 You know, it's crazy. The one thing that's really stood out was when 108 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,200 I was up there with my grandmother and my father in law, I had 109 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:54,080 no pain, and for for that that was the greatest thing of all. 110 00:08:56,080 --> 00:09:00,120 But when I said why to my father in law. I walked out in 111 00:09:00,159 --> 00:09:05,159 the house, and that's when apparently they brought me back. Ah. I 112 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:09,159 thought I was going, like you said earlier, I was a little over 113 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:16,759 four minutes. I was going, Wow, longer than that. Your experience 114 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,519 differs in that, like Brian clearly just went to heaven. Yeah, but 115 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:24,440 you had a far different experience. You want to tell us about that. 116 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:31,039 I was born and raised a Catholic, and I was very devoted one. 117 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:37,120 I went to Catholic schools my whole education, and we were taught certain things 118 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:41,000 that there was a heaven, a purgatory, and a hell, and once 119 00:09:41,039 --> 00:09:46,879 you died, almost everybody went to purgatory, no matter about Jesus dying for 120 00:09:46,919 --> 00:09:52,080 your sins. There was this like caveat, there'll be extra for you to 121 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:56,320 pay for. So I believe that with my whole heart and soul. I 122 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,519 believed that's what was going to happen to me when I died. So when 123 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:05,600 I did, I was, like you say, I was in a coma 124 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,559 for almost three weeks, at which time they told my parents and family I 125 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,240 probably wasn't gonna make it, you know, say you're goodbye. So I 126 00:10:15,919 --> 00:10:20,320 slipped out of there and I first found myself in the void, which is 127 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:26,679 that black, totally black, no sound, no sensation feeling, which is 128 00:10:26,799 --> 00:10:35,399 very disorienting. It's not bad, but it's just very different. And having 129 00:10:35,639 --> 00:10:39,759 been there for in the terminate amount of time, since there's no time over 130 00:10:39,759 --> 00:10:45,399 there, I started seeing the scene kind of behind me there. It started 131 00:10:45,399 --> 00:10:50,120 getting this reddish glow and there was a thick, roiling fog. And then 132 00:10:50,159 --> 00:10:54,440 I heard this horrible voice come out and said, do you know where you 133 00:10:54,600 --> 00:11:01,759 are? And I thought, oh, dear hell, and he just said 134 00:11:01,159 --> 00:11:07,440 woah, this horrible laugh, and I turned and ran into the darkness, 135 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,639 and that's when the adventure started, and my hellish experience came In segments, 136 00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:18,799 the lights would be off. I'd stop because I didn't know where I was 137 00:11:18,919 --> 00:11:20,519 or if I was going to fall or run into something, and then the 138 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:26,720 lights would come up and there would be a situation. Most of them included 139 00:11:26,759 --> 00:11:33,840 demons or a very unpleasant situation where the demons would tell me this is my 140 00:11:33,039 --> 00:11:39,240 job, and it would be a terrible situation. I don't like to talk 141 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:41,799 about it, and I would say, no, I'm not going to do 142 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:45,000 that. You know, that's disgusting, it's immoral. And I'm not going 143 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:48,799 to do it well. The lights would go out, the lights would come 144 00:11:48,879 --> 00:11:52,600 up, and I'd find myself somewhere else. There was a road. Sometimes 145 00:11:52,639 --> 00:11:56,200 in between these segments, I'd be on this road that went to nowhere. 146 00:11:56,320 --> 00:12:03,960 It was just desolate on both sides. Sometimes I'd run into other beings that 147 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:09,480 appeared to be human, and then other times they weren't. And each situation 148 00:12:09,639 --> 00:12:16,799 got worse as I plotted along. Who knows how long it's there's no time, 149 00:12:16,879 --> 00:12:20,759 like I said, over there, And then I got to one that 150 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,639 I thought couldn't get any worse, and again I was being a brat, 151 00:12:24,879 --> 00:12:31,559 and they told me that, well, I don't want to give the whole 152 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:39,919 thing away. But I made my last attempt at being obnoxious, and it 153 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:43,799 had something to do with singing at Christmas Carol. And when I got to 154 00:12:45,159 --> 00:12:50,600 where the name Jesus would have come out, things changed. If I didn't 155 00:12:50,639 --> 00:12:54,919 say the word, but things change, And I was like boom into this 156 00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:07,360 glorious, warm, light, love, bliss situation and it was just ineffable. 157 00:13:07,519 --> 00:13:13,480 You can't describe how wonderful it is. And I had been taking care 158 00:13:13,519 --> 00:13:18,320 of my former fiance who had leukemian. Because I'd taken care of him for 159 00:13:18,399 --> 00:13:20,759 nine months, I got very run down, caught the flu, and now 160 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,440 I was dying. So he had died, but that was a month before, 161 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,919 and he was there in this blissful great place, and I thought, 162 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:33,919 oh, shoot, he doesn't know he's dead, because he looked all happy 163 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:39,360 and glad to see me. And when I thought that, he started laughing, 164 00:13:39,799 --> 00:13:41,799 and I thought. I didn't say that out loud, you know, 165 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:46,519 And I thought, oh my gosh, if he's dead, then I must 166 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,039 be dead, and it's like the best news ever. And I said, 167 00:13:50,159 --> 00:13:54,320 hey, why are we just standing here? Come on, let's go show 168 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:56,960 me around. And he just said, oh, Mary kay, you've got 169 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:03,360 too much left to do. And I thought, huh, they're throwing me 170 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,759 out. I was kicking and screaming, literally, and but I went boom, 171 00:14:07,799 --> 00:14:11,720 the lights went out, and when the lights came up, I was 172 00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:20,399 instilled in the ICU and my family was happy and I was not. I'm 173 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:24,559 curious as to what that void was. I'm wondering in my head. Is 174 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,960 it something that someone who goes through a coma has to deal with? That? 175 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:35,240 Boy, you don't think so, it's very common very for both kinds 176 00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:39,399 of It's just for me, it felt like kind of a waiting room, 177 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,440 you know, I mean, you're switching gears and this is a place to 178 00:14:43,679 --> 00:14:50,120 just chill. And some people, Nancy Evans Bush had a bad experience in 179 00:14:50,159 --> 00:14:56,039 the void. There's these creatures that came and were talking to her, and 180 00:14:56,120 --> 00:15:03,559 she had an unpleasant experience. But most people report it's just dark and quiet. 181 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,879 It's almost like a bomb feeling. I would think, you know, 182 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:11,679 you're just just settled down for a minute, and it's going to get wild. 183 00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:16,919 Wow. So why do you think you had an experience in both heaven 184 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,200 and hell? Because I've read your book and I know that you are no 185 00:15:22,279 --> 00:15:26,080 different than a lot of other people. Why would you do you think that 186 00:15:26,159 --> 00:15:30,679 experience of both. Well, it took me ten years before I could find 187 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:37,159 somebody that would listen to my story and be compassionate and understanding. And that's 188 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,639 you know, a series of synchronicity sent me to Seattle to an ia NDS 189 00:15:41,799 --> 00:15:48,519 meeting International Association of Near Death Studies, and that's thousands of people who've had 190 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,000 near death experiences. And when I listened, you know, I went to 191 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,120 a couple of meetings and everybody's talking about the angels and the puppies and the 192 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,600 rainbows, and I say, yeah, that's not what happened to me. 193 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:02,679 And so they explaining, well, it's okay. You know, about fifteen 194 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:07,240 to twenty percent of people that have a near death experience have what's called something 195 00:16:07,279 --> 00:16:11,279 that's distressing, and that doesn't mean you're a bad person. It doesn't mean 196 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:17,399 anything other than you had a different experience for a number of reasons. I 197 00:16:17,519 --> 00:16:21,879 believe now, you know, this is almost twenty four years later, coming 198 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,559 up at the end of this month, that we all preplan our lives. 199 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,960 We you know, come down, we live what we plan to do. 200 00:16:30,679 --> 00:16:36,080 And I planned this, and for whatever reason, what was I thinking keeps 201 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:44,039 going through my head. But I think now it's because I can't tell you 202 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:48,720 how many people I talk to that have the distressing ones are recovering Catholics. 203 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,480 I think that, you know, we were taught that this would happen, 204 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:56,799 and I think I manifested it. You know, I thought, oh, 205 00:16:56,879 --> 00:17:00,480 this is supposed to happen. I'll take all the really bad things that happened 206 00:17:00,519 --> 00:17:03,920 in my life and I'll make a really good hell. And I did, 207 00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:07,240 and I've talked to so many people that say, yeah, I had these 208 00:17:07,279 --> 00:17:11,119 segments. You know, it was different things that happened. So I was 209 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:17,200 sent back. I think to tell people, don't manifest your own hell, 210 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,680 you don't have to. God is all loving, all forgiving. You get 211 00:17:21,720 --> 00:17:26,440 a life review, it's not bad. It's just to understand how you did 212 00:17:26,559 --> 00:17:29,720 your own report card. You give yourself. Yeah, I could have done 213 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,720 a little bit better there. Wow, I knocked it out of the park 214 00:17:32,759 --> 00:17:37,599 over here. It's so much different than what we were taught. And I 215 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,200 think that's why I'm back, is to give people that assurance. I had 216 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,680 a ten year old little boy come into I was selling books up in Bremerton 217 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,200 at a book fair. Little tiny guy came up and my book sitting there, 218 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,680 and he stood there for a minute and he looked at me and he 219 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,920 says, what's going on at the book And I thought, uh, you 220 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,799 know, what do you say? Well? Well, well, I says, 221 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,279 I had, you know, kind of when I died, I had 222 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:07,680 kind of an unfortunate experience. But I think I had that because I was 223 00:18:07,759 --> 00:18:11,319 taught that that would happen to me. I says, God is all loving 224 00:18:11,319 --> 00:18:15,279 and all forgiving and would never send anybody to hell. And he says, 225 00:18:15,559 --> 00:18:19,240 I just came from church ten minutes ago and he pointed at me life. 226 00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:22,920 I needed to hear that, and off he went, you know, and 227 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:27,759 I thought, that's why I'm back. I didn't sell one darn book at 228 00:18:27,759 --> 00:18:32,039 that thing, but I talked to three people that needed to talk to me. 229 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,359 You planted that seed that you needed to plan now. You had said 230 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:41,559 you have a life review, right, Yes, what are both your views 231 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:45,119 on reincarnation? Do we get to live again and do it over again and 232 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:48,200 try and fix the errors of our first experience? Are we able to live 233 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:52,960 again to learn more experiences? So I'd like to know both of your views 234 00:18:53,039 --> 00:18:56,039 on reincarnation. Why don't we start with you, Kathy, since you were 235 00:18:56,039 --> 00:19:00,200 talking about the review, and then Brian, you can tell me I believe 236 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,960 in it now. I you know, I couldn't before because that was against 237 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:10,920 the Catholic Church's teaching. But having talked to so many people, I totally 238 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,400 believe it. Yeah, and we get to plan, We get to plan 239 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:18,160 where we go next, you know, or you can hang out, or 240 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:22,079 you could take a break. There's all Eternity is a long time, lots 241 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:26,759 to do, how about you, Brian. Well with me, I'm not 242 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:33,480 religious at all. Our families aren't religious. What I take out of it 243 00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:37,960 is, I mean, I look up because where I live in New Jersey, 244 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,400 where out in the country, and there's no lights, so you walk 245 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:48,440 outside and you see hundreds and thousands of stars and I look up at them 246 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:55,640 and say, hey, all those stars they're all suns. How many planets 247 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,799 are around each one of those? And my thinking is that we're not the 248 00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:08,000 only living orgasms in this entire place. There's a ton of other you call 249 00:20:08,079 --> 00:20:15,319 them aliens, I guess. So I think when we pass on, is 250 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:22,799 that's just our next step to another life and we live for who knows, 251 00:20:22,839 --> 00:20:26,839 Maybe it's thousands of years, who knows, Maybe we get to finally meet 252 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:36,480 the other whatever aliens forms that are out there. Yeah, that's just the 253 00:20:36,519 --> 00:20:41,279 way. Because I'm not a religious person, but yeah, so I think 254 00:20:41,279 --> 00:20:48,200 we just we continue to go on and just meet new types of life forms. 255 00:20:48,559 --> 00:20:52,319 Do you believe in a higher power that's in control of it all, 256 00:20:52,559 --> 00:21:00,000 that created it all? I don't know. I think it's just the progress 257 00:21:00,599 --> 00:21:04,839 of it. Could be the same with other living forms. They live like 258 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:11,160 us. They you know, are born, and they taught as they grow 259 00:21:11,279 --> 00:21:15,240 up, and you just keep learning as you go on. So to people 260 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:22,480 that these other life forms that maybe have been up there for ten thousand years 261 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:27,359 are so much more advanced than know, so much more than us, that 262 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:33,119 it just keeps going. So I don't think there's a higher power. I 263 00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:40,200 think it's just all these life forms are just so more advanced and more than 264 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,279 we can even imagine. So now it's for me personally, I don't think 265 00:21:44,279 --> 00:21:48,599 there's a higher power. How did you feel after your near depth experience? 266 00:21:52,599 --> 00:21:55,000 In a way, like I said, is because I had no pain, 267 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,960 for not in forty years, finally not having pain. I enjoyed that. 268 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:03,240 But I had, of course my wife and my boys to come back to, 269 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:11,559 which I, thank goodness came back. Yeah, So that I enjoyed. 270 00:22:11,519 --> 00:22:15,599 Probably the most is coming back to see everybody. But I know, 271 00:22:15,759 --> 00:22:22,559 moving forward though, when when it actually does happen, I don't have to 272 00:22:22,599 --> 00:22:27,240 worry, is you know, I'll see whoever other family I guess up there 273 00:22:29,039 --> 00:22:33,039 say hello. Yeah. I mean even when it happened, my mom asked 274 00:22:33,039 --> 00:22:34,799 me, she goes, why didn't you see Grandpa? Why didn't why did 275 00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:38,319 you see your father in law, which Junior is his name. I was 276 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,519 like, I don't know, Mom, I don't write this stuff. That's 277 00:22:41,799 --> 00:22:45,319 the way it happened. Yeah, So that's why I think we do I 278 00:22:45,319 --> 00:22:51,200 see. I think we just meet and we get to yeah meet. Oh, 279 00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:56,759 this is your great great great great great grandmother, grandfather, you know. 280 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,599 And I think it's always something that's reckednizable to you, you know what 281 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,960 I mean. My dad came to me the day that he died, and 282 00:23:04,039 --> 00:23:07,200 I'm not saying it was a near death experience. It was him letting me 283 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:12,480 know that he passed. And ironically enough, the person that met him at 284 00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:17,400 the gates was my husband's aunt, who had died the year before, and 285 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:22,359 they knew each other briefly, you know, but not really very long time. 286 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,359 I mean just because we were only married a short time, my husband 287 00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:26,160 and I, so he only met her a handful of times. But she 288 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:29,960 greeted him. She's like, hi, Carl, come on in. There 289 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,640 are others here that want to see you, and she walks them into a 290 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,079 circle of lighted beings that weren't in body form, they were just lighted beings. 291 00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:44,000 And I was receiving all of his emotions during this whole vision that I 292 00:23:44,079 --> 00:23:48,079 had, and I knew exactly who all those lighted beings were. They were 293 00:23:48,119 --> 00:23:52,880 his deceased siblings, his parents, his best friend who had died the year 294 00:23:52,920 --> 00:24:00,480 before, and they all embraced him. They all enveloped him, and shortly 295 00:24:00,519 --> 00:24:06,920 thereafter they separated to allow a young woman to come forward who embraced him, 296 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,559 and she said, Hi, Dad, it's me Caroline, which was my 297 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,920 sister who was his namesake, who had died young, and here she was 298 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:19,599 a grown woman in heaven. So it was it was it's not a near 299 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:25,000 death experience, but it's interesting that you know that they meet their loved ones 300 00:24:25,039 --> 00:24:29,160 that are there to greet them and bring them on into whatever adventure they're headed 301 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:36,720 for in the the after. So how did you feel like you're near death 302 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:45,240 experience? Kathy? Okay, there was a lot she talked about there about 303 00:24:45,839 --> 00:24:52,039 you asked at first about source. Is that what you're talking about? How 304 00:24:52,079 --> 00:24:56,240 I feel? I believe? Oh yeah, God is everything. You know, 305 00:24:56,599 --> 00:24:59,880 there was a couple of things that I had learned as in school as 306 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,359 a kindergartner. You know, who is God? God is love? Where 307 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,000 is God? God is everywhere? And those two are true with all the 308 00:25:08,079 --> 00:25:12,000 dark matter they're talking about now and all that. I think that's God. 309 00:25:12,079 --> 00:25:18,839 God is everything, and and we just take certain forms this time. We're 310 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,160 human, and like Brian says, you can be a Martian next time or 311 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:37,079 something. But I believe that God is everything. God is love. So 312 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:42,000 after your near death experience, what did it make you feel about having Well, 313 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:45,880 I know you said that you were angry at your family because they were 314 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,359 praying for your recovery and you didn't want to come back that much. I 315 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:56,640 remember you saying, So, how did I feel when I came back devastated? 316 00:25:56,119 --> 00:26:00,359 Yeah? I was. I wait, these six pounds, I mean 317 00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:07,359 I'd see you. Yeah, I was a mess. I to go from 318 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:15,119 this total bliss and joy and and completeness back to earth was just a terrible 319 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:22,920 shock for me. Yeah. It took what you feeling is about my life 320 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:32,079 back before your experience, well, oh our year. Yeah, it took 321 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,680 you to get Oh yeah, well, I said I had. I was 322 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,839 in the ICU for three weeks, and then I was in a physical rehab 323 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,200 facility for a month, and then I had to learn how to walk and 324 00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:45,599 talk and do everything again. I was eighty six pounds I lost all my 325 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:51,119 muscle mass and muscle memory. I was like a baby, and there I 326 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:57,279 was fifty three years old and helpless. So it took a long time to 327 00:26:57,319 --> 00:27:03,880 be able to function. And in this whole time, I'm remembering how blissful 328 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:14,200 and wonderful and that it was, and I was pretty depressed. Wow to 329 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,960 say that we're not afraid, pardon me, am I not afraid to die? 330 00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:22,519 Oh no, I look forward to it. I want to get my 331 00:27:22,559 --> 00:27:29,799 work done so I can go home. Yeah, no problem. What about 332 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:32,359 you, Briandy, afraid to die? Are you ready to go if you 333 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,559 have to? Uh? Now, I would say yeah, because I know 334 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,680 I'm going to be meeting family, and I'll see friends up there because I 335 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:47,039 have I'm fortunately a lot of high school friends that have already passed away. 336 00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:49,960 Yeah not a real lie, you know, like four or five. But 337 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,279 still they were like really good friends of mine. So I mean, I 338 00:27:55,279 --> 00:27:57,319 look forward to seeing him when I got up there. You know, we're 339 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:03,519 seeing family. It should be good. Yeah. I mean, of course 340 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:10,440 i'd be sad leaving my boys and my granddaughter. Yeah, but knowing that 341 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,039 down the road is I'll see them when they come up to see me. 342 00:28:17,559 --> 00:28:22,559 Yeah, and it's wild that Kathy with you. I've learned from interviewing people 343 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:29,359 last I was going to say that, Kathy, you said that you were 344 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,240 fifty three when this happened to you. I was fifty four when it happened 345 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,839 to me. Yeah. That's a good life. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 346 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:45,559 that's pretty wild. Yeah, it is. I've learned from interviewing people 347 00:28:45,599 --> 00:28:51,759 these last several years that as a person who's passed on, we are able 348 00:28:51,759 --> 00:28:53,960 to come back anytime we want to visit our family members that are here. 349 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,079 They just need to be open and ready to accept our visitors, because those 350 00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:07,119 little nuances that our decease left one send us are undoubtedle they're there, they 351 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:11,240 happen, and if you're openly recepted to receiving them, you'll know when it's 352 00:29:11,279 --> 00:29:18,200 happening and you will be ecstatic at having that feeling. So I guess the 353 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:22,640 first thing to tell everybody is make sure you just pay attention. Listen. 354 00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:26,680 They're there. They're always around us. And when I'm doing a paranormal investigate 355 00:29:26,319 --> 00:29:30,640 investigation and I'm there with the spirit and I'm trying to help them cross over, 356 00:29:30,759 --> 00:29:34,039 I try to explain to them, you're kind of stuck in this void 357 00:29:34,119 --> 00:29:37,920 right now, and I know it's comfortable to you and you're happy in it. 358 00:29:38,359 --> 00:29:42,000 But if you go to that light, you can come back anytime you 359 00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:45,480 want to, so you'll be in this wonderful place. And I'm sure that 360 00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:48,799 ninety nine percent of the time they're going to want to go up there and 361 00:29:48,799 --> 00:29:52,720 not come back, right So I get very excited when we're able to help 362 00:29:52,759 --> 00:29:56,559 somebody move on. You do get the occasional spirit that doesn't want to. 363 00:29:56,640 --> 00:30:03,960 But those stories are so poignant when people get those messages, and I always 364 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,519 tell them that they're personal to them too. I mean, you could pick 365 00:30:06,519 --> 00:30:11,759 any kind of sign from your loved one, and it could be a coin, 366 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:14,200 it could be a cloud, it could be a bird or birds in 367 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:18,920 general, or a dragonfly, butterfly, whatever you think is yours. It's 368 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,440 personal to you. And if you see it, don't let anyone tell you 369 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,920 that it's not real. Don't let anyone tell you that I'll gosh, that's 370 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,400 nothing that didn't happen. Yes it did. And if you believe it did, 371 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,000 receive it and accept it. That's what I say. So it's kind 372 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:42,640 of cool to know that we can come back anytime we want you believe it's 373 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:49,400 happened actually a few times and not with me, but when actually I pass 374 00:30:51,599 --> 00:30:56,400 my wife felt something go through her chest and she thinks for sure it was 375 00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,480 her brother, because when she was really young, her brother died and he 376 00:31:00,599 --> 00:31:06,960 was only like nineteen or twenty years old. And the other thing is that 377 00:31:07,279 --> 00:31:12,480 the song Old Black Water from the Doobie Brothers. Anytime something major in the 378 00:31:12,559 --> 00:31:19,119 family happens, that song, for some reason always comes on and everybody's like, 379 00:31:19,839 --> 00:31:25,720 hey, Al's here. And then the other thing that just happened because 380 00:31:26,279 --> 00:31:33,000 my birthday was the beginning of October, and my older son had a party 381 00:31:33,079 --> 00:31:37,160 with the family at his house for me, and my sister in law was 382 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:42,799 there and her husband, my brother in law, just passed away July twenty 383 00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:52,799 ninth. He had cancer. So we're at the party and July August September, 384 00:31:52,839 --> 00:31:56,640 so to over two months have gone by since he passed away. My 385 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,160 younger son is sitting at and we're sting in there, and he asked my 386 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:06,359 sister in law. He's like, hey, Kelly, goes, do you 387 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,319 have Danny's phone on you? She's like, no, why would I He 388 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:16,319 come walks over to her. He shows me, shows her that Danny's on 389 00:32:16,359 --> 00:32:23,079 his phone. Danny's like connected to him. So I looked up. I 390 00:32:23,119 --> 00:32:29,359 was like, thanks for coming to my party, Dan, They definitely want 391 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:34,119 to go. They spot they come back here and check on us. I 392 00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:37,079 think you lea yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, there's no doubt in my 393 00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:40,319 mind that that's the case. And if somebody tells me otherwise, and Mike, 394 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,319 sorry, I don't believe you. I've way too many experiences of my 395 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:52,440 own to have any doubts about it, because it's just too too clear to 396 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:57,680 me, right, too clear to me. I know that you have done 397 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,720 a lot of work in the near death experience, Kathy, and so you've 398 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:06,599 been able to speak to I'm sure hundreds of people who've had experiences because you've 399 00:33:06,599 --> 00:33:15,000 go to conventions and stuff. There are there any native or challenging aspects to 400 00:33:15,079 --> 00:33:20,519 refe the having in your death experience? Have you spoken to anybody who's struggled 401 00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:27,039 with life afterwards? Oh? Yeah, the ones that have had the distressing 402 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:35,720 experiences. It's very tough. Again, there's shame and fear that follow you. 403 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:37,680 You can't you know, you don't know what it is that you you 404 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:44,240 did it was so terrible that you deserve that, and every time you try 405 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:46,680 and tell somebody about it, that's the first thing my mom said. She 406 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,319 says, well, Kathy, what did you do that we don't know about? 407 00:33:50,559 --> 00:33:52,880 You know? And I was like, there's no good answer to that. 408 00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,119 So there's a shame and fear until you can finally find a safe place 409 00:34:00,759 --> 00:34:07,199 to talk about it was somebody that ideally had the same experience. And I'm 410 00:34:07,239 --> 00:34:14,239 with the Irons group and I started a Distressing Your Death Experience group a couple 411 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:19,320 of years ago now and we meet once a month, and people who've had 412 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:22,440 this experience, many of them that come to our meetings have never told a 413 00:34:22,559 --> 00:34:27,400 soul what happened until they, you know, come to a meeting or two 414 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,280 and feel safe, and then after that there's just they're like different. There's 415 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:37,800 this burden that comes off when you realize that was not alish thing from God 416 00:34:37,079 --> 00:34:42,639 and it was just you know, you thought you would have that happen, 417 00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:47,639 and you've got to be careful about manifesting. Wow, that's so interesting. 418 00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:54,079 M I just was thinking something. You just said something and it put it 419 00:34:54,119 --> 00:34:58,320 thought in my head and it's left me. Now, I don't know why 420 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:05,280 I hate it must be it's going in and one out with the groups that 421 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:07,880 you have You ever heard any of these groups before? Brian that she the 422 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,760 near death experiences. I know that. When I was writing the chapter on 423 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:17,039 near death experiences, everybody that I spoke to was saying to me that they 424 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:22,199 don't really talk to people about it. They talk to other near death experiences 425 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,400 because they can share that experience with them. But to let somebody like me 426 00:35:27,599 --> 00:35:32,159 the outside they're in and tell me their story was a privilege. And I 427 00:35:32,199 --> 00:35:37,599 have developed great relationships with the people that I have interviewed because of that. 428 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:43,199 I really did appreciate the fact that they shared that with me, because they 429 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:47,599 do deal with people who are against whatever it is that they have to say 430 00:35:47,679 --> 00:35:52,440 or give them a hard time or ridicule or whatever way you want to describe 431 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,760 it, so that it's a shame that somebody just can't be supportive as opposed 432 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:02,679 to the You're probably the only one outside of my family that I've talked to 433 00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:07,320 about it. I mean, I got a gigantic family. Yeah, there's 434 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:13,599 enough people within the family. Yeah, but from somebody that we're not related 435 00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:17,559 to, you're the only one. And I've ever told. You know, 436 00:36:17,679 --> 00:36:22,360 the whole story to her is you. And when you asked me, I 437 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,039 was like, was fine with me? I didn't care. I was like, 438 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:32,760 somebody's actually interested. I didn't think anybody really cared. Yeah, I 439 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:37,920 was happy to tell you about it. We should put you. We should 440 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,719 put you in contact with these near death experience groups that Kathy knows of, 441 00:36:43,119 --> 00:36:50,480 just in case you want to participate or meet other people who have had experiences 442 00:36:50,519 --> 00:36:53,920 just like yourself that you can share in those discussions. But I'm sure it 443 00:36:54,039 --> 00:37:00,000 helps to take the burden off too, and understanding and so on. Yeah. 444 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,079 Have to do is go to i a n ds dot org and a 445 00:37:04,079 --> 00:37:07,239 whole whole different world will open to up to you. There's so many different 446 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:15,199 kinds of sharing groups and speakers, and it's free and it's amazing. I 447 00:37:15,199 --> 00:37:22,000 think you'll feel it home. Yeah, I have to try. I have 448 00:37:22,039 --> 00:37:25,599 to check it out because even just here talking with you, somebody else that's 449 00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:30,800 went through it. Yeah, because people I talk to family and the other 450 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:36,880 my other friends, nobody's ever went through it before. So yeah, it 451 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,559 is. It's kind of cool to be able to talk to somebody that's came 452 00:37:40,599 --> 00:37:45,159 back at least you know I went and came back. Yeah, we're privileged. 453 00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:52,000 Yeah from that experience. Yeah, I know this is random, Kathy, 454 00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:54,280 But how many podcasts have you been on to date? I know you 455 00:37:54,360 --> 00:38:00,639 kept it tally. Yeah, about one hundred and twenty five. Yeah, 456 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:08,400 they're amazing and one it's called The Other Side. That one's had over a 457 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:14,360 million views. So you know, I can go You can go to a 458 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:19,079 book fair and talk to three people. You get on a podcast. So 459 00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:24,960 between all of those, there's several million people who've heard my story, which 460 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,559 is why I was sent back. And I'm telling you when I was laying 461 00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:34,440 in that bed in the hospital, unable to move or talk or breathe and 462 00:38:34,519 --> 00:38:37,840 I've got this, You've got too much left to do before you get to 463 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:43,000 go home, that was like overwhelming. I can't even breathe. How am 464 00:38:43,039 --> 00:38:45,639 I going to reach all these people? And then the first time I had 465 00:38:45,679 --> 00:38:52,440 somebody calling, it was Kirsty Salisbury from New Zealand saying I watch all my 466 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:57,440 podcast and it's like it, what's a podcast? And I can't go to 467 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,519 New Zealand. No, No, you get on the intery. You know, 468 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,199 I didn't know anything. And so that one led to this one, 469 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,960 and that one led to that one, and then you know, God works 470 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:10,880 in strange ways. But if that's what I was meant to do. I 471 00:39:12,039 --> 00:39:15,000 pre planned all this stuff. I was very smart. And you know, 472 00:39:15,559 --> 00:39:19,760 just you just have to you have to go with it and say, well, 473 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,199 show up. That's all you got to do. Show up. The 474 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:28,559 doors will open. Like you and your job and going to North Carolina and 475 00:39:28,599 --> 00:39:30,920 all that stuff. You just show up, the doors will open. Yeah, 476 00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:36,320 it just go with the flow, right, be optimistic. I always 477 00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,320 My husband's not very much pessimist, not the optimist, and I keep on 478 00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,440 telling him, just go with the flow. It'll all happened the way it's 479 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:47,199 meant to happen. You don't, don't fear it, just receive it and 480 00:39:47,239 --> 00:39:52,599 accept it. So you have this beautiful prayer that you share with everybody. 481 00:39:52,679 --> 00:39:54,599 In fact, you put it on a lovely bookmark, and I know it 482 00:39:54,639 --> 00:39:59,800 by heart now. It's Lord helped me to be loving, kind, useful, 483 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,280 merciful, forgiving, grateful, and non judgmental. Right, So where'd 484 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,760 you come up with that prayer? Why those specific things wine merciful for you? 485 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:12,199 I don't know. Brian has this, but when usually when you come 486 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:16,480 back. Whatever you sensed as your conscience or your guardian angel or whatever gets 487 00:40:16,599 --> 00:40:22,360 very loud, and this voice is very loud. And when I had been 488 00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:27,079 back for quite some time, I still had this little, tiny fear that 489 00:40:27,199 --> 00:40:31,599 when I died again, I'd go to that awful place. And so obviously 490 00:40:31,639 --> 00:40:36,440 what I had been doing wasn't working. So I prayed and said, Okay, 491 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:40,239 God, I need some positive things to do to focus on, you 492 00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:45,920 know, to keep me on the right track. And a couple of days 493 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,519 later, in my head, I just turned loving and kind, loving and 494 00:40:49,639 --> 00:40:52,079 kind, be loving and kind, and so I thought, great, that's 495 00:40:52,119 --> 00:40:55,440 all I got to do. But like you said later, it was loving, 496 00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,559 kind, merciful and forgiving came and courage, being grateful, the non 497 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:05,400 judgmental and useful. So that's a good way to start my day, is 498 00:41:05,519 --> 00:41:07,960 just say, Dear God, help me. And if you can't remember anything 499 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:13,840 else, it's just be loving and kind. I mean, if you're somebody's 500 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,800 honking on you at the freeway, somebody you know, cuts in line at 501 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:22,000 the grocery store, whatever, loving and kind, just take a breath and 502 00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:27,800 you know, let it go and your whole life changes. It's so much 503 00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:31,159 easier to be on this earth when you just let all that stuff go and 504 00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:37,920 just work on being loving and kind. Very true. Do you have any 505 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:44,679 questions Brian for Kathy No, I was just going to say, is like 506 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:49,639 I said, I'm not a religious person, and I have no problem obviously 507 00:41:49,679 --> 00:41:53,280 with anybody being religious. It's you know, to your own thing. But 508 00:41:53,639 --> 00:42:00,800 like what Kathy was just saying is to me, there's already like God is 509 00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:07,000 here on the earth and a lot of different people and you can see is 510 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:12,760 the thing that popped in my head when she was saying that was John Lennon 511 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:19,320 from the Beatles his song Imagine, Yeah, yeah, imagine that we all 512 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,679 live in peace and love. So it's it starts with us. I think 513 00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:29,039 you go to look for me since I'm not religious God, it's we're all 514 00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:34,559 right here. God is here on walking around obviously, not the psychos that 515 00:42:34,599 --> 00:42:38,679 are doing this. I understand what you mean. Like John Lennon said, 516 00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:43,159 you know, it's and there's a lot of people out there like that. 517 00:42:44,519 --> 00:42:51,360 Yeah, right, Kathy. Do you have any questions for Brian? No, 518 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,119 I don't. I mean that was his experience and I honor that. 519 00:42:55,199 --> 00:42:59,639 There you go, I know that you have your book out there, Kathy, 520 00:42:59,679 --> 00:43:04,679 would you like to tell everybody out here how they can find your book 521 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,000 and look at you if they need to. The book has got a long 522 00:43:08,079 --> 00:43:13,679 title, but you know the reason now. But it's on Amazon, Barges 523 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:19,440 and Noble any place that you couldn't buy books. And I have a website 524 00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,000 that is also the name of the book. You just put the www the 525 00:43:22,119 --> 00:43:29,320 name of the book dot com and there's a lot of information about me and 526 00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:31,599 you can email me there if you want to talk to me or ask me 527 00:43:31,599 --> 00:43:36,400 any questions. Yeah, I'd be glad to help refresh us on the book's 528 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:43,440 name again, it is Misfit in Hell to Heaven expat. Then you go, 529 00:43:44,239 --> 00:43:45,840 well, this has been such an amazing discussion. I want to thank 530 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:50,840 you all for joining us. Say I'm sad that Jack Gregory was not able 531 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,760 to get here in time, but we had the opportunity to discuss things with 532 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:58,960 each other. So is there any kind of final message that you would like 533 00:43:59,079 --> 00:44:07,119 to leave everybody with, Brian before you, I think, like Kathy said, 534 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,960 is just live life and peace and be kind to everybody. That's a 535 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:20,480 Kathy. Just don't fear death. God loves us unconditionally and would never send 536 00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:30,519 anybody to hell. Don't send yourself a good advice thereful. Thank you all 537 00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:34,360 again, and if you like listening to this week's episode and you're into AOL, 538 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,960 thanks Paranormal. Check out my other show, Eleanor Wagner's Creeping at Real 539 00:44:37,039 --> 00:44:42,039 podcast out of the Coast to Coast Entertainment Network, which is available wherever you 540 00:44:42,119 --> 00:44:45,920 get your podcasts and streamed directly through my Eleanor Wagner YouTube channel. And if 541 00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:49,480 any of you are interested in reading any of my books, you can find 542 00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:52,800 them directly on Amazon or you can get signed copies directly through me at author 543 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:57,639 Eleanor Wagner at gmail dot com. Everybody loves a good ghost story, but 544 00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:00,039 there's nothing better than a real life ghost story, so check the books out 545 00:45:00,199 --> 00:45:05,519 on Amazon and I hope everyone will stay and listen as silent Crafters. Stranger 546 00:45:05,599 --> 00:45:10,119 Part two takes us out of the show. Ghostly listeners, You can sign 547 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:16,280 up or level up on my author Eleanor Wagner Patreon program that's p A t 548 00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:22,880 R e O N, where you will find special bonus opportunities only available to 549 00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:29,440 its patrons, such as one on ones with me and co hosting opportunities on 550 00:45:29,599 --> 00:45:36,039 episodes of Eleanor Wagner's Strange and Scary World podcast. Thank you, paranormal enthusiasts 551 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,679 for tuning in today. I hope you'll come back again. Remember to tap 552 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:45,760 into your own gifts, everyone has them, and in the meantime, make 553 00:45:45,840 --> 00:46:04,599 sure you're creeping it real. The other side to the other