WEBVTT 1 00:00:29.440 --> 00:00:33.640 Welcome back to the Path went Chili. I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and 2 00:00:33.759 --> 00:00:39.799 I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into this week's case. May first, two 3 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:45.520 thousand and two, San Francisco, California. After finishing a phone call with 4 00:00:45.600 --> 00:00:49.840 one of her sisters, twenty four year old Evelyn Hernandez and her five year 5 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:55.679 old son, Alex Hernandez vanished without explanation. At the time, Evelyn was 6 00:00:55.719 --> 00:01:00.240 only six days away from giving birth to her second child, but and she 7 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:04.879 fails to resurface by her due date, She's officially reported missing. Over three 8 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:11.959 months later, Evelyn's torso and legs wash up on shore along San Francisco Bay, 9 00:01:11.079 --> 00:01:15.439 but neither Alex nor the fetus for Evelyn's unborn son, Fernando, can 10 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:22.400 be found. It turns out that Fernando's biological father is a married man whom 11 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.640 Evelyn had been having an affair with, but no evidence is ever found to 12 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:32.560 link anyone to this crime. After that, the path went chilly. So 13 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:36.040 today we're going to be exploring a cold case involving a mother and a son. 14 00:01:36.599 --> 00:01:40.439 The two thousand and two murder of bevil And Hernandez and the disappearance of 15 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:44.359 her five year old son, Alex Hernandez. And I'm sure many elements of 16 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:48.239 this story will sound very familiar to you, as it involves a pregnant woman 17 00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:52.400 who went missing in California in two thousand and two before her remains were found 18 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.079 in San Francisco Bay months later, and a man who conducted an extramarital affair. 19 00:01:57.640 --> 00:02:00.040 But no, this is not the saga of lace in Scott Peterson, 20 00:02:00.439 --> 00:02:04.560 though that case would wind up being linked to this one the following year. 21 00:02:05.280 --> 00:02:09.039 Evelyn Hernandez was actually an immigrant from Al Salvador who was raising her son Alex 22 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:13.199 as a single mother, and at the time she went missing, she was 23 00:02:13.319 --> 00:02:15.960 less than one week away from giving birth to a second son named Fernando. 24 00:02:16.879 --> 00:02:21.840 The father of this child was herman Aguilera, whom Evelyn had been having a 25 00:02:21.879 --> 00:02:24.879 relationship with, but it turned out he was actually married to someone else. 26 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:29.520 Now, on the surface, it sounds like there would be a good reason 27 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:32.479 to be suspicious of this guy, but unlike Scott Peterson, it does not 28 00:02:32.639 --> 00:02:37.120 seem like there is much in the way of evidence against him. And what 29 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:40.759 further complicates this case is that there are two additional victims. Alex, who 30 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:46.639 was still a missing person and Fernando who was technically not confirmed to be dead 31 00:02:46.759 --> 00:02:51.240 since his fetus was never found. So today's episode will be a very unique 32 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:55.680 one as we're simultaneously covering an unsolved murder and missing person's case, and given 33 00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.039 the numerous similarities between this story and the Lacy Peterson murder, which is one 34 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:04.520 of the most famous crimes of the modern era, we are going to explore 35 00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:07.759 the issue of the media's tendency to favor coverage of one case over another. 36 00:03:08.759 --> 00:03:12.919 This is really interesting, Robin. You just hit an amazing point. I 37 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:15.960 was seeking it the whole time you talked about it. Why was this case 38 00:03:15.039 --> 00:03:19.879 not as popular as Lacey? So we can dive into that later. But 39 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:25.199 what's very fascinating is it this storyline is not just familiar to Lacy and Scott 40 00:03:25.199 --> 00:03:30.800 Peterson, or to Evelyn Hernandez. It's quite common actually, when there are 41 00:03:30.840 --> 00:03:38.560 extramarital affairs. You have an unexpected pregnancy and there's an expectation by a mother 42 00:03:38.240 --> 00:03:43.879 to one follow through with the birth right of the child she's pregnant with, 43 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:51.240 and also the potential of her exposing the affair to the other spouse or perhaps 44 00:03:51.319 --> 00:03:53.840 using that as leverage, asking for money or child support. I mean, 45 00:03:53.879 --> 00:03:58.319 this is almost like one of those scripts you see when you're saying, Okay, 46 00:03:58.439 --> 00:04:02.080 let's talk about murdered dynamics and how you typically know who your killer is. 47 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.759 This is a recipe for disaster. And so I'm heartsick for so many 48 00:04:06.800 --> 00:04:14.319 reasons. Evelyn's body was so discarded and abused in the process, right her 49 00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:18.959 torso washes up, So for me, that shows such a disregard for her 50 00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:24.600 remains. I'm interested to know if Robin or Jewles do you know if the 51 00:04:25.199 --> 00:04:29.959 baby had actually been removed from Evelyn or if they just simply couldn't locate it, 52 00:04:30.000 --> 00:04:32.519 Like, was there any kind of evidence that the baby had been removed 53 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:36.600 by the killer? Wasn't it just a torso? Yes, it was just 54 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:40.759 a torso. So. There was no definitive evidence to suggest that she had 55 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:45.800 given birth or had the baby forcibly removed, So it is possible that it 56 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.199 could have just been the result of decomposition that after her torso dissolved, that 57 00:04:49.560 --> 00:04:55.680 the fetus just disappeared in the ocean and has never been found. The other 58 00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:00.519 thing that's incredibly disturbing, as it's not Evelyn and the unborn baby. It's 59 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:05.079 also Evelyn her child who's five years old, who's also missing, And to 60 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:11.279 me, it seems like as a killer, wouldn't you discard the bodies together? 61 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:15.079 Do you think that they would actually take time to spread the remains out, 62 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:21.079 or is it possible that someone wanted the five year old and simply got 63 00:05:21.199 --> 00:05:28.079 rid of mom and potentially also mom and the unborn baby, or even more 64 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.319 disturbing, we've seen cases where someone's murdered in their unborn child is actually taken 65 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:36.879 alive out of their body. So this case has so many potentials for what 66 00:05:38.000 --> 00:05:41.920 actually happened to Evelyn, this unborn baby, and her son. It's mind 67 00:05:41.959 --> 00:05:46.759 boggling. Our story begins in San Francisco, California, in two thousand and 68 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.720 two. One of our central figures is twenty four year old Evelyn Hernandez, 69 00:05:53.160 --> 00:05:58.560 who originally hails from El Salvador. Evelyn emigrated to the United States at age 70 00:05:58.639 --> 00:06:02.639 fourteen to live with her who had previously fled the country during the salvador In 71 00:06:02.759 --> 00:06:09.160 Civil War. Three years after her arrival, Evelyn became pregnant and gave birth 72 00:06:09.199 --> 00:06:14.759 to her son, Alexis, who went by the name alex Alex's biological father 73 00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:17.439 was enlisted in the Navy at the time, but he would cut ties with 74 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:23.439 Evelyn and did not play any role in his son's life. By this point, 75 00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:27.079 Alex is five years old and Evelyn is raising him as a single mother 76 00:06:27.519 --> 00:06:31.759 while they lived together in an apartment in the Crocker Amazon neighborhood. While Evelyn's 77 00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:36.360 mother has since returned to Al Salvador, she still has two sisters residing in 78 00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:42.040 the United States, Na who lives in the nearby city of Richmond, and 79 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:46.720 Olivia, who lives on the other side of the country in Virginia. Evelyn 80 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:50.000 has also been involved in a relationship with thirty six year old Herman Aguilera, 81 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:57.199 who works as a mechanic for United Airlines at San Francisco International Airport and is 82 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:01.720 also employed at a limousine company. Evelyn would become pregnant with Herman's child and 83 00:07:01.800 --> 00:07:05.120 learned that the baby is a boy, whom she is planning to name Fernando. 84 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:11.560 In fact, even though she's previously worked as a vocational nurse and was 85 00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.879 employed at the Cliff Royal Sinesta Hotel, Evelyn has been forced to stop working 86 00:07:15.920 --> 00:07:20.560 and go on disability due to issues with her pregnancy. Okay, so do 87 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:27.240 you guys remember how I said One of the things that is very risky when 88 00:07:27.240 --> 00:07:30.920 you're engaged in an affair and then become pregnant. Is that kind of weight 89 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.839 of saying is she going to tell my wife? Right? Is she going 90 00:07:34.879 --> 00:07:39.959 to expose me? And I believe, especially at the point that you get 91 00:07:40.040 --> 00:07:45.040 pregnant and hopefully you know herman is secretly helping care for her or take her 92 00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.399 to appointments or things like that, there would be an expectation too. I'm 93 00:07:47.399 --> 00:07:54.800 having this baby and I want to have some connection to you right, especially 94 00:07:54.879 --> 00:07:59.680 here because she's going to name the baby after No, she's not. That's 95 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:03.360 a lie. That's a lie. When you said Fernando, I was like, 96 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:07.959 that's his name, that's a lie. Let me start over to me. 97 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.240 It feels like in an affair, when you are having relationships with somebody 98 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:18.560 else and then you get pregnant, there's that fine line of are you expecting 99 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.519 to have a lifelong relationship with this person and have them raise your child or 100 00:08:22.879 --> 00:08:28.240 do you have this kind of idea that I had an affair. I knew 101 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:31.759 this was not going to be a long term relationship and I'm going to have 102 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.200 this child and raise them by myself independently. I feel like the longer you 103 00:08:35.240 --> 00:08:39.759 would go on, the more there would be that nesting need to have someone 104 00:08:41.279 --> 00:08:45.759 have a role in that baby's life. And so for Evelyn, she's working, 105 00:08:45.879 --> 00:08:48.240 she's very qualified, but then she goes on disability. She's going to 106 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:54.559 have this child. I can sense a potential for her really looking at herman 107 00:08:54.639 --> 00:08:58.200 and saying it's time for you to step up. And was there a risk 108 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.919 of him feeling as though his spouse was going to find out and him snapping. 109 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.440 It's a week before the babies do That's when the pressure would be the 110 00:09:05.519 --> 00:09:11.159 highest. It's very, very scary to think about. I feel like I 111 00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:13.600 when I hear this story, and just when I hear any case about a 112 00:09:13.639 --> 00:09:18.519 pregnant woman who goes missing. I see in Nancy Grace's face when she's yelling 113 00:09:18.600 --> 00:09:22.679 about Lazy Peterson's case, and she's thinking, it's the most dangerous time for 114 00:09:22.720 --> 00:09:26.639 a woman when she's pregnant. It's when she's likely going to be victimized, 115 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:31.639 if at all, by an intimate partner violence, or she's going to be 116 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:35.320 murdered. So I think that there has to be something to that. I 117 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:41.279 bet that herman had to feel those walls closing in on him where he thought 118 00:09:41.639 --> 00:09:46.120 if this, you know, birth comes to comes to term, and baby 119 00:09:46.159 --> 00:09:50.840 Fernando is born, what are the chances that I'm going to continue to keep 120 00:09:50.879 --> 00:09:56.360 this family separate without my wife finding out. I think it's pretty slim denied. 121 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.679 Like we hear of men having two separate families one doesn't know about the 122 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:07.320 other. But here Evelyn is very aware that herman is married, right, 123 00:10:07.440 --> 00:10:11.480 so it's not that she's unaware, it just doesn't know where he goes. 124 00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.480 I think that you hit the nail in the head, ash, and that 125 00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:20.279 there's got to be this deep emotional need because she most likely has to feel 126 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:24.159 kind of isolated and that most of her friends and family may have some kind 127 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.919 of judgment, so she probably really wants him to be closer to her and 128 00:10:30.000 --> 00:10:35.600 to be close to the baby. And sometimes people take these rash steps like 129 00:10:35.919 --> 00:10:41.720 I'm just gonna share this really quick story about my husband's friend and how they 130 00:10:41.960 --> 00:10:48.120 ended up getting busted for having an affair, because this is absolutely crazy, 131 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:52.000 and these are the types of things that sometimes women or i'm sure men will 132 00:10:52.039 --> 00:10:56.679 do when they're pushed too far. Is There was a dinner party. His 133 00:10:56.759 --> 00:11:00.279 friend had been having an affair on his wife for many, many years, 134 00:11:00.679 --> 00:11:03.759 and I guess eventually the mistress grew tired of it. They two had had 135 00:11:03.759 --> 00:11:09.240 a baby together, and she showed up at this dinner party where his wife 136 00:11:09.320 --> 00:11:13.279 was there and knocked on the door and said, I'm here to get you 137 00:11:13.320 --> 00:11:16.039 know his name, let's just call him Bob. I'm here to get Bob. 138 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:20.000 And the wife opened the door and called for the husband and was like, 139 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:26.720 Bob, you better go with your mistress. And she left with him. 140 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.759 There was a whole dinner party full of people sitting there going WTF, 141 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:35.399 like what actually happened? And he laughed, He's like whoop, whoop. 142 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:39.159 He left. He's like, I guess she doesn't want me anymore. And 143 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.279 she was probably fed up with his crap, you know, in all areas 144 00:11:43.320 --> 00:11:45.799 of life, because they've been married for a really long time, was like 145 00:11:45.879 --> 00:11:48.759 just go, and he left and they ended up divorcing and he married his 146 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:54.000 mistress. So those are the types of situations that had to have been swirling 147 00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:58.360 around in herman's head, the types of scenarios that could have been very probable, 148 00:11:58.399 --> 00:12:03.840 not to sit common a romantic comedy situation come to life. I know, 149 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.639 right, it sounded unreal when you told me, I'm like that legitimately 150 00:12:07.679 --> 00:12:11.039 happened. How is that real life? Have you guys ever heard of the 151 00:12:11.120 --> 00:12:16.080 Reina Maraquin murder? It was back in the sixties. Yes, that's the 152 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:18.399 one where like she was having an affair with a married man and murdered and 153 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:22.840 they found her body buried decades later. Yeah, yeah, I remember that. 154 00:12:24.679 --> 00:12:26.600 So what's that one? The same kind of thing, though. I 155 00:12:26.639 --> 00:12:28.600 think they had gotten into a fight, right, you know, like, 156 00:12:28.679 --> 00:12:31.200 and she said, I'm tired of it, I'm tired of be making me 157 00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:33.440 false promises. I'm tired of you not taking care of me. I'm gonna 158 00:12:33.480 --> 00:12:35.720 call your wife. And I think she did phone her, and then she 159 00:12:35.840 --> 00:12:39.080 was dead like forty five minutes later, and so it was like, oh 160 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.480 my gosh, a m I missed the time. But it was very shortly 161 00:12:43.519 --> 00:12:46.279 after that phone call or threatening to make the phone call, that he came 162 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:50.639 over and murdered her. And it's like, I's it's so scary because you 163 00:12:50.679 --> 00:12:54.279 really are your playing with so many lives in that moment, and there's so 164 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:58.919 much control and secrecy where you can't ask for help when you need it, 165 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.960 and oh my gosh, I just I'm very suspicious at this point of herman 166 00:13:03.679 --> 00:13:09.039 the timing right like one week before she's due to give birth, it seems 167 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.080 improbable, you know, given all the other factors that we have, like 168 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.120 when a woman is murdered and give me ask. You probably are more familiar 169 00:13:16.159 --> 00:13:22.960 with the statistics from you know, being a doctor of criminology, that when 170 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:26.480 a woman is killed, it's typically by somebody that she knows, right, 171 00:13:26.360 --> 00:13:31.399 absolutely, absolutely, yeah, it's it's for anybody you're typically you know, 172 00:13:31.639 --> 00:13:35.600 when you see stranger murders, those are the ones as public we're fascinated with, 173 00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:41.120 but they're the most rare kind. It's very commonly a familial relationship or 174 00:13:41.159 --> 00:13:46.720 at least an acquaintance or work you know, uh, colleague or something to 175 00:13:46.759 --> 00:13:50.399 that extent. It's very rare, just like sexual assault, that you are 176 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:54.840 going to be victimized by someone you do not know it happens, but it's 177 00:13:54.919 --> 00:14:00.279 very It's far more rare when you'll get relationships to be a stranger offender than 178 00:14:00.480 --> 00:14:07.279 a known associate. But I think our perception because of all the true crime 179 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:11.679 on you know, social media, YouTube, podcasts, every streaming platform, 180 00:14:11.759 --> 00:14:18.080 all the things that we watch are typically stranger perpetrators. And so I think 181 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.759 we have this perception that this happens far more often than it actually does. 182 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:28.600 Whereas there's some shows like Snapped right where it shows somebody usually within your life, 183 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:33.600 who snaps and this happens, and there are some true crime shows that 184 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.720 focus on people you know, But I think the vast majority of the stuff 185 00:14:37.720 --> 00:14:43.639 that fascinates people is strangers. And what's interesting when you look at statistics, 186 00:14:43.440 --> 00:14:48.639 it's about ten percent of ten to twelve percent given the year, right, 187 00:14:50.039 --> 00:14:54.279 is a stranger who does the killing. Now, there is a large percentage 188 00:14:54.279 --> 00:14:58.120 each year of murders where it's an unknown relationship because it's unsolved. Remember we 189 00:14:58.200 --> 00:15:01.440 have up to forty percent of cases go unsolved every year. But when you 190 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:05.960 look at the breakdown, it's typically this like I don't know, it's about 191 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:11.440 forty percent or someone you know. There's a ten percent stranger identification, and 192 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:16.120 then there's this cluster of unsolved murders where people say, well, obviously we 193 00:15:16.120 --> 00:15:18.519 didn't solve it, so we don't know the relationship there. But it's far 194 00:15:18.559 --> 00:15:24.679 more common, like like I said anything, I'm getting attacked or assaulted or 195 00:15:24.720 --> 00:15:28.600 sexually assaulted. It's very much more probable you're going to get assaulted or hurt 196 00:15:28.600 --> 00:15:33.360 by someone walking you home to protect you from that stranger in the bushes than 197 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:37.240 you are from the stranger in the bushes. So in the morning of me 198 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:41.879 the first six days before she was scheduled to give birth to Fernando, Evelyn 199 00:15:41.879 --> 00:15:46.279 called her sister Olivia and said she was experiencing pain in her abdomen and wasn't 200 00:15:46.360 --> 00:15:50.600 feeling well. Evelyn was about to take Alex to one of this to elementary 201 00:15:50.600 --> 00:15:54.720 school where he was attending preschool, but when Olivia asked if she had someone 202 00:15:54.720 --> 00:15:58.480 who could take Alex to school four, Evelyn said she didn't, it would 203 00:15:58.519 --> 00:16:02.799 still have to take him herself. It was confirmed that Evelyn dropped Alex off 204 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.440 at the pre school later that morning, but after picking her son up and 205 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:11.080 returning home that night, Evelyn had a phone conversation with her sister Raina and 206 00:16:11.200 --> 00:16:15.120 spoke to her about a baby's shower she was planning to attend. The call 207 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:18.000 ended in around nine p m. But this would be the last contact Evelyn 208 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.200 ever had with her family. The following morning, Alex failed to show up 209 00:16:22.240 --> 00:16:26.159 for preschool, and they did not hear anything from Evelyn. On May the 210 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:30.720 seventh, which was Fernando's scheduled due date, herman Aguilera went to the police 211 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:34.639 and reported Evelyn missing, claiming that he had not heard from her in over 212 00:16:34.679 --> 00:16:38.720 a week, even though he made repeated attempts to contact her and called a 213 00:16:38.799 --> 00:16:42.960 number of local hospitals to see if she had given birth. Police performed a 214 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:48.440 search of Evelyn's apartment and found no sign of her or Alex. There was 215 00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:52.559 initial speculation that Evelyn may have left the area with her son because she had 216 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.720 a dispute with herman and wanted to have her baby in private. However, 217 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:00.600 she did not on a car anne Aside from her cell phone, virtually all 218 00:17:00.639 --> 00:17:04.599 of her personal belongings have been left behind. Evelyn and Alex's passports were still 219 00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:10.039 inside their apartment, as well as a suitcase that Evelyn had packed in preparation 220 00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:15.759 for upcoming hospital state. The investigation also turned up no reports if anyone matching 221 00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:21.680 Evelyn's description having given birth following your disappearance. There's no way that she was 222 00:17:21.759 --> 00:17:26.759 going to leave. She had her family close by, she had this relationship 223 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:29.880 that was going on, and she had plans to stay in town. She 224 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.319 also had this little one who's situated she's about to give birth. We're not 225 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.640 going on the run five days before we give birth while we're experiencing stomach pains. 226 00:17:37.640 --> 00:17:41.359 It's just not the time to do that. You're exhausted, you're emotional, 227 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:45.799 you're just clinging to like, please let me have this baby and be 228 00:17:45.839 --> 00:17:49.000 done. So that was a silly assumption. I'm sure a bunch of guys 229 00:17:49.039 --> 00:17:52.720 were sitting on the table. I bet she left on her own, right, 230 00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:59.640 No, she didn't. I also find it very very interesting that you 231 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:03.400 have herman as the one who comes forward to report her missing. I'm wondering 232 00:18:03.480 --> 00:18:08.200 if he ever confirmed with police that there was a dispute, did he tell 233 00:18:08.279 --> 00:18:12.680 anybody what had happened with he and Evelyne over the course of the last couple 234 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:15.880 of months. Well, this is going to come up later when the interview 235 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:19.119 herman and his wife and they finally do learn the truth about the nature of 236 00:18:19.160 --> 00:18:25.480 their relationship. And even though it's never been confirmed that Herman or Evelyn had 237 00:18:25.519 --> 00:18:29.640 any sort of dispute before she went missing, it became apparent that he wasn't 238 00:18:29.640 --> 00:18:33.160 telling everything that he was supposed to. I find it highly unlikely that she 239 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:38.359 would go away to have her baby, because it seems more likely the fact 240 00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:44.680 that she knew the sex of the baby and it already named the baby Fernando. 241 00:18:45.160 --> 00:18:48.759 So that leads me to believe that she'd gone to multiple appointments with an 242 00:18:48.759 --> 00:18:53.359 obgyn. So she probably had an ob gyn who would have been scheduled to 243 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:57.400 be delivering her baby. Do you know if that is true, Robin, 244 00:18:59.359 --> 00:19:03.200 I was able to confirm that information, But that does sound logical because if 245 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:06.240 she knew the sex and she was planning to name him, then obviously she 246 00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:10.920 had had some appointments beforehand and was probably seeing like a regular doctor. And 247 00:19:10.960 --> 00:19:14.359 I really do not thinking nine month pregnant woman is just going to say I'm 248 00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:17.640 about to give work, I'm about to give birth, road trip, let's 249 00:19:17.640 --> 00:19:22.880 go somewhere else that I'm not familiar with. The last known paper trail for 250 00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:29.039 Evelyn occurred after she dropped alexoff at preschool on May first, and then took 251 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:33.640 a bus to a bank in order to make a deposit and use their ATM. 252 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:37.480 That same day, she went to a nearby Ross Dressed for Less store 253 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:42.400 and was believed to have purchased a new wallet well two weeks after Evelyn's reported 254 00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:48.319 missing. This wallet would be found in a fence dirt parking lot located on 255 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:53.400 Lynden Avenue in South San Francisco and turned over to police. It contained a 256 00:19:53.480 --> 00:20:00.000 disability benefits check made out to Evelyn, as well as forty dollars in cash. 257 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.720 It was believed that Evelyn received this check when she picked up her mail 258 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.920 while arriving home on the evening of May first, which is why it was 259 00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.799 never cashed. The parking area where Evelyn's wallet was found was next to a 260 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:18.319 canal, but a search of it turned up no additional evidence. Interestingly enough, 261 00:20:18.559 --> 00:20:22.279 this area was located only two blocks away from the location which was connected 262 00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:29.880 to herman Aguilera, though differing sources give conflicting information. Some sources say it 263 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.960 was close to the limousine company where herman worked well. Others say it was 264 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.880 near a gas station the limo company frequently used, goodness and it's next to 265 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.119 a body of water. Do we think this canal could be a location where 266 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:45.160 her body was actually placed and then it was obviously floated somewhere else? But 267 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:49.000 is that believed to be where she was also put in the water. Good 268 00:20:49.119 --> 00:20:53.359 question. I have no idea if this canal actually floats out into San Francisco 269 00:20:53.440 --> 00:20:57.000 Bay, But if it does, then that's a logical solution because the place 270 00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:02.119 or body was discovered was not necessarily the same place where she was dumped in 271 00:21:02.160 --> 00:21:06.720 the bay. Yeah. Absolutely, I'm sure that it was. I'm sure 272 00:21:06.799 --> 00:21:11.359 that's a very big Possibility's God, she has this plan where she's going through 273 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:15.279 this just normal day, right, She's getting things, she's buying a new 274 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.319 wall of herself. She has her check that she grabs on the way into 275 00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:22.240 the house, and then all of a sudden you find this wallet, which 276 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:27.400 signifies a big deal. There's an uncashed check, there's cash, and then 277 00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:33.200 it's close to this location of herman Aguilera or a place he's associated with. 278 00:21:33.599 --> 00:21:37.400 The hair on my arms is standing up. I'm frustrated because I need to 279 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:41.119 know more about herman, and I want to know how his wife finds out 280 00:21:41.160 --> 00:21:45.000 about all of this and what she thinks. Well, you know, it's 281 00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:49.759 definitely not a robbery because to find the wallet with not only the disability check 282 00:21:49.799 --> 00:21:55.079 in it, but to also find it with cash, it's sort of discounts. 283 00:21:55.200 --> 00:22:00.359 You know, that option of there being some perpetrator that may have had 284 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:04.119 an opportunistic abduction because they needed cash, or they needed a quick fix or 285 00:22:04.160 --> 00:22:10.000 something like that or some other motivation. It just like almost hits it home 286 00:22:10.119 --> 00:22:15.720 for me, even more, especially given the location is tied to herman Aguilera 287 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.160 in some way, whether it be the gas station or it'd be close to 288 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:23.519 the limousine company. The fact that that forty dollars was still in that wallet 289 00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:30.480 speaks volumes well. Ashe wanted to hear more information about herman and his wife, 290 00:22:30.519 --> 00:22:33.359 So I'm going to share that right now. It wasn't long before suspicions 291 00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.960 started to be directed towards herman, as it turned out that he was married 292 00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:41.799 to another woman, and Evelyn never even found out about this until she was 293 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:45.480 four months pregnant with Fernando. When Evelyn originally told herman about the pregnancy, 294 00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:49.279 he did not seem thrilled about it, so she called herman's mother to ask 295 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.279 if anything was wrong with him. He was here when Evelyn finally learned that 296 00:22:53.319 --> 00:22:56.519 herman was married, but in spite of this, she was still planning to 297 00:22:56.599 --> 00:23:02.200 raise Fernando on her own. According to Evelyn's sister Raina. Shortly before she 298 00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:06.000 went missing, Evelyn had told her that she wanted to end the relationship with 299 00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:10.160 herman because she appeared to have no intention of leaving his wife, though she 300 00:23:10.160 --> 00:23:14.119 would allow him to visit Fernando after he was born. At the time, 301 00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.160 herman was still paying for Evelyn's apartment and she wanted to be able to keep 302 00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.599 staying there, but he did not appear to want to do anything to support 303 00:23:21.680 --> 00:23:26.880 Fernando, so Evelyn was considering the possibility of seeking legal action to receive child 304 00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.599 support. During an interview with the media, Raya described herman as being quote 305 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:36.880 unquote unlikable, though she stopped short of accusing him of being responsible for Evelyn 306 00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:41.680 and Alex's disappearances. Can you imagine his poor mom when she gets this call 307 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.039 from a woman who's like, listen, where's your son. I'm pregnant and 308 00:23:45.079 --> 00:23:48.359 he hasn't contacted me, And she's going, are you kidding? Like what 309 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:52.319 in the world? You know, she specialted at both parties. You know, 310 00:23:52.519 --> 00:23:56.720 she probably has a lot of frustration and anger towards what he's doing to 311 00:23:56.000 --> 00:24:00.640 his wife. And this is how she finds out that this guy's married. 312 00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:07.319 So it's very disturbing because clearly herman's not forthright. There's no kind of honesty 313 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:10.480 there like having an affair in general. Don't get me wrong, there's no 314 00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:15.279 honesty there at all. But but there are people who have very open relationships. 315 00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:18.079 There are people who will start a relationship and say, this is the 316 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:21.839 reality of my situation, this is what you can get with me. This 317 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:25.079 is what you can't get with me. That is clearly not what herman did. 318 00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:29.920 Herman sets Evelyn up to think he's single, to probably tell her there's 319 00:24:29.960 --> 00:24:32.119 going to be this great life, or he'll take care of her, help 320 00:24:32.119 --> 00:24:36.079 her. He is part of the process of getting her pregnant, and then 321 00:24:36.160 --> 00:24:37.839 all of a sudden it's like, oh, by the way, four months 322 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.039 in, I'm married, and you had to find out from my mom. 323 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.039 Like, this is even more of a recipe for disaster compared to a situation 324 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:49.599 where he had entered into the relationship and said you will never have a more 325 00:24:49.640 --> 00:24:52.440 than a sexual relationship with me, right, Like, I'm married, I 326 00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.319 have no intention to leave with my wife. This is what I'm willing to 327 00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:59.680 do. This what I won't be willing to do. It seems like herman 328 00:24:59.759 --> 00:25:03.720 dea full manipulated and got what he wanted, and then that sets him up 329 00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.599 to be in a position to say, I don't like the consequences now, 330 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.119 and how do I keep control? Well, one action is to get rid 331 00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:15.759 of the problem, and that's what really makes my stomach term. He's duplicitous 332 00:25:15.799 --> 00:25:19.960 and he lacks integrity. That's what his actions are telling us. And I 333 00:25:21.119 --> 00:25:26.640 question if Evelyn had never called herman's mother, if she would have ever known 334 00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.680 the truth now he would he have come, you know, forward and said, 335 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:33.359 hey, like, I have a whole other family, or would he 336 00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:37.480 have just kept her separate and only she would have only been privy to like 337 00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:41.079 certain details until the point where you know, she probably exploded and decided to 338 00:25:41.119 --> 00:25:45.599 follow him and then maybe discovered it. Yeah, this is very similar to 339 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:51.319 the situation Jules just described earlier with her friend, where Evelyn just thinks that 340 00:25:51.359 --> 00:25:55.920 she's in a monogamous relationship with herman, but then she phones up his mother 341 00:25:56.000 --> 00:25:59.799 and then surprise, surprise, learns that oh, he's already married and that 342 00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:03.480 his mother had no idea that he was seeing another woman in that she was 343 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.839 pregnant. So he can only imagine the shock that went through with her when 344 00:26:06.880 --> 00:26:11.240 she found this out. When questioned by police, Hermann claimed that he had 345 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:17.079 last seen Evelyn on April thirtieth, the day before she vanished, as he 346 00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:21.440 went shopping at Ikea to buy a new bed for Alex before meeting Evelyn at 347 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:26.720 San Francisco General Hospital for a routine prenatal exam. Hermann's wife provided him with 348 00:26:26.759 --> 00:26:30.519 an alibi, claiming that he came home from work on the evening of May 349 00:26:30.599 --> 00:26:36.720 first and was with her the entire night. Hermann did confirm that he attempted 350 00:26:36.720 --> 00:26:41.440 to call Evelyn multiple times that evening but she never picked up, and later 351 00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:44.400 went to her apartment to look for her, but she was not there. 352 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.359 Hermann's wife was aware of the affair with Evelyn and believed he had broken off 353 00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:52.720 the relationship, but she did not actually find out that Evelyn was pregnant with 354 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:59.680 Hermann's child until the police told her during questioning. As for Alex's biological father, 355 00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.319 he was living in Puerto Rico by this point and was not considered to 356 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.359 be a suspect. Well, this is really interesting because when he actually talked 357 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.440 to the police, he says, hey, I saw her a week ago 358 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.519 and we were shopping at Ikea to buy this new bed for the little boy, 359 00:27:15.599 --> 00:27:19.680 the five year old, and that he was also taking Evelyn to this 360 00:27:19.839 --> 00:27:26.839 routine prenatal exam. And so what's wild is how deeply engaged Herman's expressing he 361 00:27:27.079 --> 00:27:33.519 was in both Alex and Evelyn's life. Now, was he that supportive and 362 00:27:33.759 --> 00:27:37.640 was he helping her? Or was this like you talked about earlier, Jewels, 363 00:27:37.759 --> 00:27:41.359 was this the pressure point where this baby's about to be born in a 364 00:27:41.400 --> 00:27:45.240 week and I don't like the consequences of that, right, I'm going to 365 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:51.680 become too liabele for her? And did he do something about it? I 366 00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:55.400 find it odd that he's portraying himself such a wonderful man to have an affair 367 00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:57.640 with. And it's also a big red flag now that we found out that 368 00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:00.880 even though his wife was aware of the affair, she was not aware that 369 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:06.640 Evelyn was pregnant and giving birth to his child. So that gives more motivation 370 00:28:06.680 --> 00:28:10.599 now where he's obviously not worried about the affair being exposed, but I'm sure 371 00:28:10.640 --> 00:28:12.960 he didn't want his wife finding out that he had gotten another woman pregnant. 372 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.480 And also she had thought that the affair was off now, So I mean, 373 00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:21.559 this man's a mess. Like we talked about earlier, he wasn't open 374 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:25.119 with Evelyn at all about his marital status or what he could offer her. 375 00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:29.079 His wife finds out he's having an affair, and he lies to her. 376 00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:32.920 He can't even admit and to be responsible for what he did. He says, 377 00:28:32.960 --> 00:28:34.640 oh, it's done, Oh it's done right, and no, there's 378 00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:41.640 nothing going on anymore. She's pregnant and supposedly you're being this night and shining 379 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:45.440 armor, taking care of she and her baby while she's awaiting her second child 380 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:49.920 with you. So it's very frustrating. When his feeter held to the fire 381 00:28:51.119 --> 00:28:53.880 and she's aware of the affair, then of course he admits what he has 382 00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:59.599 to admit, but he also continues to lie to her by not talking about 383 00:28:59.680 --> 00:29:03.039 the baby that's in the picture and then going further and saying it's over. 384 00:29:03.480 --> 00:29:08.039 So I don't think that you can really rely on anything that herman is saying 385 00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.759 to be a full truth. And it's very clear that the way that he 386 00:29:11.880 --> 00:29:18.839 treats women is degrading and demeaning, right, like you only deserve a little 387 00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:21.680 bit of the truth, even though you are my wife. And I have 388 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:29.440 completely screwed you over by having this affair. He probably like excused unjustified why 389 00:29:29.519 --> 00:29:33.279 he gave her partial information by saying he was protecting her emotionally or something like 390 00:29:33.319 --> 00:29:38.279 that, because people tell themselves crazy lies when they want to continue doing something 391 00:29:38.279 --> 00:29:44.759 and not get caught. Well. In July to twenty fourth, nearly four 392 00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:48.880 months after Evelyn and Alex originally went missing, a pair of legs, as 393 00:29:48.880 --> 00:29:52.240 well as a badly decomposed female torso which was clad in a maternity blouse, 394 00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.000 washed up on shore at the Embarcadero Waterfront beneath the Bay Bridge. The remains 395 00:29:57.000 --> 00:30:00.400 appearing who have been floating in San Francisco Obay for months, and there was 396 00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:04.240 immediate suspicion that they belonged to Evelyn. A month and a half later, 397 00:30:04.480 --> 00:30:10.119 after the victim's DNA was compared to DNA found on a toothbrush in Evelyn's apartment, 398 00:30:10.559 --> 00:30:15.319 testing positively confirmed that the remains were hers. However, when dive teams 399 00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:18.720 performed a search of San Francisco Bay, they failed to find the rest of 400 00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.000 Evelyn's body, including the fetus of her unborn son, Fernando, and there 401 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:26.480 was no trace of Alex either. According to the autopsy report, there was 402 00:30:26.519 --> 00:30:30.880 no evidence of sharp or blunt force injuries on Evelyn's remains, but our exact 403 00:30:30.920 --> 00:30:36.759 cause of death was listed as undetermined. During the initial stages of the investigation, 404 00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:41.119 the case was handled by the San Francisco Police departments Missing Persons Unit, 405 00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:45.119 so Herman was cooperative with them, but after I was handed off to their 406 00:30:45.160 --> 00:30:49.000 homicide unit, Herman hired an attorney, refused to provide investigators with a formal 407 00:30:49.079 --> 00:30:53.640 statement, and ceased all communication with them. Herman also never spoke with the 408 00:30:53.680 --> 00:30:59.160 media, and following the discovery of Evelyn's remains, his attorney simply issued a 409 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:03.400 statement that Herman was quote unquote deeply saddened by the news of the death of 410 00:31:03.400 --> 00:31:07.359 his close friend. Well, police have never ruled out Herman as a suspect, 411 00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:11.039 they have never officially named him as a serious suspect either. Anyway, 412 00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:15.359 the story would take an interesting turn by the end of the year when one 413 00:31:15.400 --> 00:31:19.519 of the most sensational true crime stories of all time hit California. Oh my 414 00:31:19.559 --> 00:31:23.039 goodness. Well, okay, so the idea that her exact cause of death 415 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:29.799 is undetermined, right, we simply don't know the way that she died but 416 00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.200 we know the manner. Clearly she was murdered, and it seems like there 417 00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:41.920 again was such little regard for her. So the fact that she was cut 418 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:47.000 into pieces, and you know, she was so close to giving birth, 419 00:31:47.119 --> 00:31:49.039 it's to me, I don't know, to me, that's like an act 420 00:31:49.079 --> 00:31:53.079 of really not wanting that child, not just to hurt Evelyn, but to 421 00:31:53.640 --> 00:31:57.039 make sure that child didn't come into this world. And to me, that 422 00:31:57.119 --> 00:32:02.400 is so depraved and so just sturbane. I would you know, doesn't even 423 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:06.559 help to know the cause of death. The only reason it helps is so 424 00:32:06.680 --> 00:32:10.279 investigators know what weapon they're looking for. But the family, you know, 425 00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:15.359 she's I don't know. It's horrific. This is absolutely horrific. And then, 426 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.279 like you said, all of a sudden, months are fast forwarding. 427 00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.480 We have no answers in this case, and bam, this bombshell case is 428 00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:25.359 going to come about. And I'm assuming you're alluding to Lacy and Scott Peterson. 429 00:32:27.240 --> 00:32:31.559 Absolutely. I'm sure most of you are probably already familiar with this case 430 00:32:31.960 --> 00:32:37.799 because Ashley just mentioned it. But here are the basic details. On Christmas 431 00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:42.559 Eve in two thousand and two, twenty seven year old Lacy Peterson vanished from 432 00:32:42.599 --> 00:32:46.559 r suburban home in the city of Modesto, located about ninety miles east of 433 00:32:46.599 --> 00:32:52.039 San Francisco. At the time, Lacy was married to her thirty year old 434 00:32:52.119 --> 00:32:55.359 husband, Scott Peterson, an eight months pregnant with their unborn son, Connor 435 00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:02.039 Well. The story instantly became immediate sense, especially once it was discovered that 436 00:33:02.160 --> 00:33:07.039 Scott had been conducting a secret affair with a woman named Amber Fry, which 437 00:33:07.079 --> 00:33:13.400 helped turn him into a prime suspect in Lacey's disappearance. On April thirteenth, 438 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:17.240 two thousand and three, a late term male fetus was found along the Point 439 00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:23.240 Isabel Regional shoreline in San Francisco Bay, and the following day, the decomposed 440 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:29.160 and decapitated body of a pregnant woman washed up on the same shoreline about a 441 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:36.640 mile away. Within days, DNA testing positively identified the victims as being Lacey, 442 00:33:36.720 --> 00:33:42.880 Connor Lacey and Connor Peterson, and Scott was immediately arrested and charged with 443 00:33:42.920 --> 00:33:47.519 their murders. After a long and highly publicized trial the following year, Scott 444 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.559 was found guilty and convicted a first degree murder in Lacey's death and second degree 445 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:58.319 murder in Connor's death, he received the death penalty and wound up on death 446 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:04.000 row at San Quentin State Prison. But even though Scott's death sentence was overturned 447 00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:08.360 by the Supreme Court of California in August of twenty twenty, his actual conviction 448 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:14.599 was upheld, so he will remain in prison indefinitely now. The massive publicity 449 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:19.880 surrounding this case wound up bringing extra attention to Evelyn Hernandez. There were a 450 00:34:19.960 --> 00:34:23.840 number of similarities between her death and the murder of Lacy Peterson, as their 451 00:34:23.880 --> 00:34:29.800 remains had both been found in San Francisco Bay, approximately twenty miles apart from 452 00:34:29.800 --> 00:34:34.960 each other. Before Scott's trial, his defense team pushed forward the theory that 453 00:34:35.039 --> 00:34:39.320 an unknown third party was responsible for murdering both women and made a formal subpoena 454 00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.440 for all police records from the Hernandez case. However, the San Francisco PD 455 00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:50.800 and the City Attorney's office filed court papers to reject the subpoena, as they 456 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:54.280 believed that turning over the files to the Peterson defense team could jeopardize an open 457 00:34:54.360 --> 00:35:00.000 case. They feared that if certain details about Evelyn's death went public, it 458 00:35:00.079 --> 00:35:06.639 could reveal the identity of witnesses and tip off potential suspects. Since the file 459 00:35:06.719 --> 00:35:12.719 contained information that only the killer would know. A superior court judge ultimately denied 460 00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:17.320 the Peterson defense team's request to access the Fernandez file as he believed that any 461 00:35:17.360 --> 00:35:22.119 link between the two cases was highly speculative, though the defense was allowed to 462 00:35:22.199 --> 00:35:30.519 view Evelyn's autopsy reports. This is to me, it's frustrating, right. 463 00:35:30.599 --> 00:35:34.199 I do understand where you would say, hey, these are very similar cases. 464 00:35:34.599 --> 00:35:38.239 But unfortunately, like we discussed early in the episode, this narrative is 465 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:45.719 not one that is unfamiliar to the true crime public, to homicide narratives and 466 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:51.679 to homicide investigators. You had a pregnant woman who was part of an affair 467 00:35:51.719 --> 00:35:57.079 situation and she winds up deceased, as do potentially her children. And then, 468 00:35:57.199 --> 00:36:00.800 like you talked about, we have Scott Peterson's case where Lacy Peterson is 469 00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:06.639 this happy mom who's super excited. She's talking to her parents and she's planning 470 00:36:06.679 --> 00:36:10.800 the arrival of their first child, and once she's killed, Amber Fry comes 471 00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.840 forward and says, hold on a second, I was having an affair with 472 00:36:14.840 --> 00:36:17.519 this man. I had no idea what all was going on, didn't Scott 473 00:36:17.559 --> 00:36:22.519 say his wife was dead. Didn't he tell her she was dead? Yeah? 474 00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.320 That was one of the biggest pieces of evidence against him is that weeks 475 00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:30.079 before Lacey was murdered, he had told amber Fry that his wife was deceased 476 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:32.480 because she had no idea that she was having an affair with a married man. 477 00:36:34.440 --> 00:36:37.199 And that was I mean, it was pitiful. People shamed her and 478 00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.440 got all over her, but she came forward as a hero in that case. 479 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:43.960 She said, hold on, my name's Amber Fry. I was having 480 00:36:44.000 --> 00:36:49.239 a relationship with Scott and I thought his wife was deceased. And you know, 481 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:53.719 his wife was pregnant and about to give birth, just like Evelyn was. 482 00:36:54.000 --> 00:36:59.480 Now do I think there's any connection to Evelyn's case? Absolutely not. 483 00:37:00.039 --> 00:37:02.920 What I think is that this is the exact script that we see all too 484 00:37:02.920 --> 00:37:09.079 commonly because the pressure cooker's happening. I don't have the desire to have a 485 00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.199 responsibility of a child with this person. I want a different life. This 486 00:37:14.280 --> 00:37:17.360 is an inconvenience, this is a burden, this is a tool that could 487 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:22.719 hurt me, and so I'm going to eliminate it. Scott Peterson is, 488 00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:30.360 in my opinion, quite guilty and I'm not convinced of Herman being an innocent 489 00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:34.519 individual. I know the sister said, you know, he's an unlikable character, 490 00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:38.639 but to me, he's a very disturbing person. He's narcissistic, he's 491 00:37:39.840 --> 00:37:44.880 only out for himself, he isn't honest with anyone, even when he's faced 492 00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:50.199 with a time to be accountable and responsible, and so he seems like the 493 00:37:50.320 --> 00:37:53.960 type of human being just like Scott who's selfish and wants what he wants and 494 00:37:54.039 --> 00:37:59.760 doesn't care about removing something that isn't inconvenient, or someone who's an inconvenience. 495 00:38:00.480 --> 00:38:04.519 Oh, these cases just make me so angry. There are a lot of 496 00:38:04.519 --> 00:38:08.239 parallels between the two cases, for sure, and I see the similarities between 497 00:38:08.320 --> 00:38:13.599 Herman and Scott, but I also agree I think that Scott is the responsible 498 00:38:13.639 --> 00:38:17.199 party. But one thing that really sticks out to me is just how shameful 499 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:22.320 the portrayal of women in the media around this time. Like you think back 500 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:30.320 to even people like Monica Lewinsky who was completely vilified in the media or something 501 00:38:30.400 --> 00:38:35.159 that there was an unhealthy power dynamic at play, like that was the president 502 00:38:35.599 --> 00:38:39.199 and she is treated like this, like Harlot or something like that, and 503 00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:45.119 it completely impacted her career. This isn't a very intelligent woman who I think 504 00:38:45.760 --> 00:38:51.079 is getting you know, her justice. Now in the things have been reframed, 505 00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:54.079 and I think Amber Fry has been reframed as well. I think at 506 00:38:54.079 --> 00:38:59.639 the time the recording on who she was, what she was all about, 507 00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.639 was like, oh, she's tawdry, she's having an affair with him, 508 00:39:01.880 --> 00:39:07.880 when the reality was there. She had no idea. She thought that he 509 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:13.000 was coming into this relationship with her after, you know, dealing with what 510 00:39:13.039 --> 00:39:15.119 he was dealing with, and she was there to make it all better. 511 00:39:15.360 --> 00:39:20.280 She didn't know that he had a wife who was due to give birth any 512 00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:23.519 day, and that he was lying about everything, pretending he was like in 513 00:39:23.679 --> 00:39:29.519 Paris and like overseas while he was searching for his wife. He just lied 514 00:39:29.559 --> 00:39:32.800 about everything. So yeah, there are so many parallels between the two cases. 515 00:39:32.840 --> 00:39:37.679 But I just really hate how the women were treated in the media. 516 00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:43.519 It's really shameful that we as the public allowed that to happen. But thankfully 517 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:46.880 the conversation is shifting. So unfortunately in the Chris Watts case, you will 518 00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:52.480 sometimes see more vitriol display towards Shennand and Chris's mistress at the time from people 519 00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.800 who think she was personally involved in the murder, and they sometimes get more 520 00:39:55.840 --> 00:40:00.679 blamed than Chris, the actual murderer does, so sadly, it's does happen 521 00:40:00.719 --> 00:40:05.119 to this day. People always think that like Scott Peterson and Chris Watts are 522 00:40:05.159 --> 00:40:07.960 like quote unquote hot and like that just makes me really sick to my stomach. 523 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:12.039 And I think that's why a lot of the vitriol gets directed towards the 524 00:40:12.079 --> 00:40:15.000 women, because it's like, he's so good looking, he didn't know better, 525 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:20.840 couldn't have been him. It's just so tross, don't you think Also, 526 00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:24.239 too though, it makes people feel safe like that if I can look 527 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:30.400 at someone who has a lot of similarities with me, right mom, a 528 00:40:30.519 --> 00:40:32.719 wife, or you know, like a working woman, whatever, I can 529 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:37.320 see similarities in parallels and then they're murdering. If I can vilify her or 530 00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:43.199 blame her, doesn't it make me feel safer than it wouldn't happen to me, 531 00:40:43.599 --> 00:40:45.039 Like I'm better than her. Oh yeah, you've got to get some 532 00:40:45.119 --> 00:40:50.159 dirt on her, you've got to make her like quote unquote bad. But 533 00:40:50.199 --> 00:40:52.760 it also when you've got a perpetrator who's good looking, you have the halo 534 00:40:52.800 --> 00:40:57.360 effect. So I think those things combine. Like the halo effect is just 535 00:40:57.400 --> 00:41:00.960 when you assume somebody is good because they are good looking. It's like Ted 536 00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:04.679 Bundy, you know, where it's like you can look at from a subjective 537 00:41:04.719 --> 00:41:08.000 point of view, like on an attractiveness scale, right, But people become 538 00:41:08.039 --> 00:41:13.320 obsessive like he's an he's idolized to a point. You know, it's this 539 00:41:13.360 --> 00:41:19.920 person who is McComb and violent and horrific and the way he doesn't even see 540 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.280 human beings, right, and yet you're worried about how attractive he is. 541 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:28.159 And almost it's a sexualized version. It's not just like, oh, yes, 542 00:41:28.199 --> 00:41:31.280 he is an attractive man. I could say that it's a subjective observation, 543 00:41:31.440 --> 00:41:34.079 right, Yes, on a scale of one to ten, that's an 544 00:41:34.119 --> 00:41:38.519 attractive human being. But it's a sexualized attraction to these people where it's like, 545 00:41:38.559 --> 00:41:43.159 oh he's so hot, oh my gosh, right, like he couldn't 546 00:41:43.199 --> 00:41:45.119 do something like that, right, And it's I don't know, I don't 547 00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:50.559 know what it is in our human brains that have people do that, and 548 00:41:50.559 --> 00:41:57.199 and then to put blame on a victim when there's literally my cost in. 549 00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:01.679 My crime was I trusted you and I got pregnant and I decided I was 550 00:42:01.679 --> 00:42:05.920 going to bring a baby into this world. Like that was the that was 551 00:42:05.960 --> 00:42:09.920 the consequence her wife in these two cases. And that's it's unbelievable to even 552 00:42:09.960 --> 00:42:15.199 think about. We expect to see monsters when you hear that somebody is this 553 00:42:15.280 --> 00:42:20.840 cool blooded murderer, like you know, somebody like you know it? Which 554 00:42:20.840 --> 00:42:25.800 there's two picked in brothers? Is it? Which picked in? You expect 555 00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:30.760 to see somebody that looks like that, you don't have anybody going, but 556 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:35.280 he's so good looking with him, right, he murdered so many sex workers. 557 00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:38.440 And that is basically like in my backyard. Not really it's like, 558 00:42:38.480 --> 00:42:42.760 you know, forty five minute drive away or hour drive away out of the 559 00:42:42.800 --> 00:42:45.760 city center, but it's close to where I live, and it was a 560 00:42:45.760 --> 00:42:50.280 big deal. But when you look at somebody like that, nobody is excusing 561 00:42:50.280 --> 00:42:53.679 their behavior because they're sexually attracted to him. I mean, they're sure there's 562 00:42:53.679 --> 00:42:58.159 somebody out there who is, but the vast majority of people are going to 563 00:42:58.199 --> 00:43:00.239 look at him and go, that's exactly clee. Would I expect to be 564 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:04.599 looking at when I think that I'm going to be confronting a monster, and 565 00:43:04.639 --> 00:43:07.880 you don't see that with Scott Peterson, and you don't see that with Chris 566 00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:13.119 Watts. So I think it's so complex, but it's yucky that we as 567 00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.039 humans will go nobody's so cute. He couldn't be responsible. Let's blame the 568 00:43:16.039 --> 00:43:21.639 women. While law enforcement does not believe the two cases are connected, the 569 00:43:21.679 --> 00:43:25.320 media has often drawn parallels between them, sometimes referring to Evelyn as the quote 570 00:43:25.400 --> 00:43:30.480 unquote other Lacy Peterson. According to Evelyn's sister, Olivia, quote, the 571 00:43:30.519 --> 00:43:35.840 police and journalists ignored my sister because she was poor and from Al Salvador. 572 00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:39.800 She wasn't middle class and married like Lacy Peterson end quote. On the one 573 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:45.480 year anniversary of Evelyn and Alex's disappearances, a memorial service was held at the 574 00:43:45.519 --> 00:43:49.920 spot in the Embarcadero where Evelyn's torso was discovered, and attended by around one 575 00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:53.880 hundred people. It was a purification ceremony, which involves singing Spanish songs and 576 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:59.719 burning incense over flowers that were tossed into San Francisco Bay. However, as 577 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:04.719 I was also put on display there featuring Alex's photograph, and it read quote 578 00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:08.840 where is Alex? Wasn't this investigation important? End quote? Over the years, 579 00:44:09.039 --> 00:44:14.159 the reward for information in this case has increased to one hundred thousand dollars, 580 00:44:14.199 --> 00:44:17.679 but the investigation has remained at a sandstill. After two decades, there's 581 00:44:17.719 --> 00:44:22.880 still no answers a book who was actually responsible for Evelyn's murder? And Alex 582 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:27.440 continues to remain a missing person. So I guess you could say the path 583 00:44:27.599 --> 00:44:31.199 went chilly. You have Evelyn's sister Olivia saying, listen, why is my 584 00:44:31.280 --> 00:44:36.880 sister not getting paid attention to? And it's God bless Olivia. Right. 585 00:44:36.960 --> 00:44:40.639 It's one of these things that I've looked into when I'm researching cold case homicides 586 00:44:40.719 --> 00:44:47.079 and murder cases. It's that quote valuable victim and how we look at who 587 00:44:47.199 --> 00:44:51.519 is going to be portrayed on the cover, Right, it's going to be 588 00:44:51.559 --> 00:44:55.440 those Jeanbene Ramsey, It's going to be the Lacy Peterson. It's going to 589 00:44:55.440 --> 00:45:00.840 be these individuals that typically have higher incomes. They have that quote purity, 590 00:45:01.039 --> 00:45:06.960 that sainthood about them. Right. They're not sexually active, they don't use 591 00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:15.119 drugs, they're very beautiful physically girl next store type of look, and it 592 00:45:15.480 --> 00:45:21.760 draws attention. And what's wild is it that's the least likely kind of individual 593 00:45:21.800 --> 00:45:27.280 who's going to be murdered, right it's typically male victims, which we don't 594 00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:31.079 see covered nearly as much as we see female victims. It's more common for 595 00:45:31.119 --> 00:45:35.840 it to be a victim of color, which we also don't see tons of 596 00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:40.519 documentaries or headlines about a person of color. And so Olivia's sister simply asking 597 00:45:40.719 --> 00:45:46.400 a basic question, why not my sister, She's hitting on this massive concept 598 00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:53.199 of where as a society we do not truly represent what crime looks like here 599 00:45:53.199 --> 00:46:00.559 in the United States. People aren't interested in hearing about black on black crime 600 00:46:00.800 --> 00:46:04.519 in a gang ridden neighborhood. They're not interested in hearing about a drug dealer 601 00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:08.760 who's killed right by due to drugs. They're not interested in the sex workers 602 00:46:08.800 --> 00:46:13.960 who are murdered. They want to see that kind of oh my god, 603 00:46:14.079 --> 00:46:20.679 the stranger in the night or the glorified, beautiful woman who's murdered. And 604 00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:24.920 that's simply not what happens when you look at true crime statistics, and yet 605 00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:30.280 they're the ones who get ninety five percent of the coverage. It's sad because 606 00:46:30.280 --> 00:46:34.679 it's an injustice not only to the victims, but it's also an injustice our 607 00:46:34.760 --> 00:46:40.119 society. We are losing perspective of who we should be looking for, of 608 00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:45.840 cases that demand attention, of cases that can be solved if they received media 609 00:46:45.920 --> 00:46:52.239 coverage, thus protecting all of us from future attacks and violence. And so 610 00:46:52.920 --> 00:46:54.559 oh, I could talk about this on a whole podcast. It makes me 611 00:46:54.760 --> 00:46:59.639 furious. I'm with Olivia, why not my sister? And why not that 612 00:46:59.719 --> 00:47:06.079 base who was five years old and isn't here now right? And the baby 613 00:47:06.719 --> 00:47:10.599 who was lost when Evelyn was killed, because that was a that was a 614 00:47:10.719 --> 00:47:15.760 nine month old child in her stomach about to be born. So there's two 615 00:47:15.840 --> 00:47:20.880 missing children, in my opinion, that we should be demanding answers about. 616 00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:28.599 And because they were not that picture perfect, white, blonde, typically victim, 617 00:47:28.719 --> 00:47:32.039 they were not given the attention that they so desperately deserved. Not to 618 00:47:32.079 --> 00:47:35.679 worry. We're going to talk more about this subject right now, because I've 619 00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:38.480 got them a lot more to say about it. Let's go well. As 620 00:47:38.519 --> 00:47:42.480 I'm sure you're well aware, one of the primary goals of both The Trail 621 00:47:42.519 --> 00:47:45.199 Went Cold and The Path When Chili has always been to cover lesser known cold 622 00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:49.679 cases why. It's just why you'll likely never see us do an episode about 623 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:52.679 a case like the Lacy Peterson murder, as it has already gotten extensive media 624 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:57.519 coverage and been analyzed to death. However, I'm always on the lookout for 625 00:47:57.639 --> 00:48:01.119 lesser known stories which just happened to have a connection to the super famous cases, 626 00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:05.599 and this is a primary example of that. If you do a search 627 00:48:05.639 --> 00:48:08.960 for Evil and Hernandez online, the vast majority of the material will find are 628 00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:14.679 sources which compare to Lacy Peterson, and you can definitely understand why. I'm 629 00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:17.480 sure most of you are probably familiar with the phrase missing white woman syndrome, 630 00:48:17.719 --> 00:48:22.039 the social phenomenon where the media will focus most of their energy on cases which 631 00:48:22.039 --> 00:48:27.159 involve the young, attractive white women who hail from a middle or upper class 632 00:48:27.159 --> 00:48:30.679 background. In fact, if you browse the Wikipedia page on missing white woman's 633 00:48:30.679 --> 00:48:35.920 syndrome, you'll find a chart citing numerous examples of it, and of course 634 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:39.800 one of them is a comparison between Lacy Peterson and Evelyn Hernandez. Now, 635 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:44.239 I will add the disclaimer that even though she has been portrayed as the poster 636 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:49.559 child for missing white woman syndrome, Lacey was technically the child of a Portuguese 637 00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:53.400 father in a Caucasian mother that as a pregnant's middle class housewife who lived in 638 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:59.440 an upscale, suburban neighborhood and was often described as the quote unquote all American 639 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:02.280 girl next door. You can see why she'd be treated as such a sympathetic 640 00:49:02.360 --> 00:49:08.199 victim by the mainstream media. By comparison, Evelyn Hernandez was a Salvadoran immigrant 641 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:13.000 and single mother who did not have a lot of money and had gotten pregnant 642 00:49:13.079 --> 00:49:16.480 during an affair with a married man. And that's where the most interesting difference 643 00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:22.119 between the two cases comes in. Scott Peterson practically became America's most hated man 644 00:49:22.480 --> 00:49:27.719 once it was uncovered that he was cheating on his pregnant wife with Amber Fry, 645 00:49:27.760 --> 00:49:30.480 and the fact that he told Amber his wife was deceased before Lacey even 646 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:36.440 went missing was pretty damning. Technically, Scott and Amber had only been dating 647 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:39.960 for just over a month, whereas Evelyn and herman Aguilera were having an affair 648 00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:44.079 for about a year and she was about to give birth to his child, 649 00:49:44.559 --> 00:49:49.440 so their relationship was definitely a lot more serious. However, much like Amber, 650 00:49:49.719 --> 00:49:52.639 Evelyn was completely unaware that she was dating a married man and did not 651 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:58.599 find this out until after she was four months pregnant. Evelyn technically didn't do 652 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.519 anything wrong, but you can see how the media and the public might be 653 00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:07.400 inclined to treat Lacy as the more sympathetic victim. Oh. Absolutely, when 654 00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:13.760 you compare these two cases, Lacy was quote innocent and Evelyn was quote at 655 00:50:13.920 --> 00:50:16.360 fault for getting involved with a married man. But like you pointed out, 656 00:50:16.519 --> 00:50:22.280 Robin, she was told he was single. She didn't know until she was 657 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:28.360 four months pregnant after a pretty long affair and calling his mother to simply check 658 00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:30.239 on her boyfriend, and she finds out, oh gosh, this is a 659 00:50:30.239 --> 00:50:34.960 married man, right, I just called this woman and she informs me he's 660 00:50:34.960 --> 00:50:39.079 home with his wife. And so it is exactly what Jules was discussing, 661 00:50:39.119 --> 00:50:45.679 where we do villainize individuals to excuse the fact that we look away or that 662 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:51.480 we don't give them the resources that they need. It's awful, it's wrong, 663 00:50:51.760 --> 00:50:53.840 and yet I don't know. People ask me when I talk about it, 664 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:55.920 you know, at a conference or if I'm talking in class, or 665 00:50:55.920 --> 00:50:59.519 like, so, how do we fix it? And I'm like, I 666 00:50:59.519 --> 00:51:02.800 don't know that you can in the media because it's what sells. They are 667 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:07.320 out for a financial profit, to make money off of a documentary, to 668 00:51:07.320 --> 00:51:12.360 make money off of the front page of that magazine, or you know, 669 00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.159 the cover of a magazine, of the front page of a newspaper. And 670 00:51:15.239 --> 00:51:19.639 so how do you get a financially driven industry to do what's ethically right and 671 00:51:19.840 --> 00:51:24.239 sound and how do you give coverage to every single case? I'm not sure 672 00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:29.440 a solution. I just know that there's a massive problem and misrepresentation that, 673 00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:32.719 like I said earlier, cost us as a society, not just on a 674 00:51:32.719 --> 00:51:37.360 case by case basis. Well, I think that's one of the benefits of 675 00:51:37.400 --> 00:51:40.639 independent podcasts that don't have to answer to like a major media conglomerate or a 676 00:51:40.719 --> 00:51:45.280 network, because we kind of have free rein to cover whatever cases we want 677 00:51:45.599 --> 00:51:49.760 and give a lot of missing person cases exposure that otherwise would never receive them 678 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:53.119 from the mainstream media. So I think this would now be a good time 679 00:51:53.159 --> 00:51:57.079 to bring an end to Part one. But join us next week as we 680 00:51:57.199 --> 00:52:01.159 present part two of our series about Evelyn and Alex Fernandez. Robin, do 681 00:52:01.199 --> 00:52:05.719 you want to tell us a little bit about the trailment Cold Patreon. Yes, 682 00:52:05.760 --> 00:52:07.760 the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years now, and we 683 00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:14.119 offer these standard bonus features like early ad free episodes, and I also send 684 00:52:14.159 --> 00:52:17.400 out stickers and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us on 685 00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:22.039 Patreon. If you join our five dollar tier Tier two, we also offer 686 00:52:22.199 --> 00:52:28.039 monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about cases which are not featured on the 687 00:52:28.119 --> 00:52:31.199 trail went Cold's original feeds, so they're exclusive to Patreon and if you join 688 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:36.199 our highest tier tier three, the ten dollar tier. One of the features 689 00:52:36.199 --> 00:52:40.840 we offer is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Unsaw Mysteries, where 690 00:52:40.840 --> 00:52:45.679 you can download an audio file and then boot up the original Unsaw Mysteries episode 691 00:52:45.760 --> 00:52:51.440 on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in the 692 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:54.760 background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured in this 693 00:52:54.840 --> 00:53:00.519 episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that I did a commentary over 694 00:53:00.719 --> 00:53:04.760 was the episode featuring this case. So if you want to download a commentary 695 00:53:04.840 --> 00:53:08.039 track in which I make more smartass remarks about Juwel Kaylor than be sure to 696 00:53:08.159 --> 00:53:12.159 join Tier three. So I want to let you know a little bit about 697 00:53:12.159 --> 00:53:15.199 the Jewels and Ashley patreons. So there's early ad free episodes of The Path 698 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:20.239 Went Chili. We've got our Path Went Chili minis, which are always over 699 00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:22.000 an hour, so they're not very many, but they're just too short to 700 00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:25.920 turn into a series and we're really enjoying doing those, so we hope you'll 701 00:53:27.000 --> 00:53:30.559 check out those. Patreons will link them in the show notes. So I 702 00:53:30.599 --> 00:53:32.480 want to thank you all for listening, and any chance you have to share 703 00:53:32.559 --> 00:53:37.480 us on social media with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciate 704 00:53:37.519 --> 00:53:39.960 it. You can email us at The Path Went Chili at gmail dot com. 705 00:53:40.039 --> 00:53:44.519 You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin. So until next time, 706 00:53:44.599 --> 00:53:47.480 be sure to bundle up because cold trails and Chili pass Call for warm 707 00:53:47.519 --> 00:53:52.280 clothing. Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy