1 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:20,440 What is Kracklac and fell thermony per a efforts. I am Dan Valley coming 2 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:24,160 at you with a solo, medium sized mail bag. We'd call it. 3 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:27,879 I'm catching up on some questions that we had in our discord. Go join 4 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,000 our discord for that. And I didn't put out a solicitation for this time 5 00:00:32,039 --> 00:00:35,799 because I'm actually pressed her time and don't want to spend eight hours on a 6 00:00:36,039 --> 00:00:38,520 don't have the not that I don't want to, I just can't spend eight 7 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,079 hours on a mail bag as I do normally. Yes, eight hours is 8 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:46,159 hyperbole. So we're gonna get to a few questions that strays that I missed, 9 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:48,320 and that's a plug. Look, join our discord. You can ask 10 00:00:48,399 --> 00:00:50,840 questions too, and I will answer them, or you can give thoughts and 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:55,479 I will respond to them. But let's let let's just dive right in here. 12 00:00:55,719 --> 00:01:00,880 So we'll begin with Mattie L had a couple questions bookkeeping question Why question 13 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,920 number one, why do sign and trades happen? This is a good question 14 00:01:06,480 --> 00:01:08,519 and we've had answers in the discord, but for other listeners who are not 15 00:01:08,599 --> 00:01:11,560 in the discord, and also defeats the purpose of you know, we have 16 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:15,200 responses to every mailbag question. If they're I'm not gonna answer them. What's 17 00:01:15,239 --> 00:01:21,719 the point? However, sign and trades mostly happen because teams are a player 18 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,719 and team want to link up who are over the cap, like where let's 19 00:01:26,799 --> 00:01:30,519 just use as an example this upcoming summer. I don't think he's gonna leave 20 00:01:30,519 --> 00:01:34,760 Paul George, but he wants to go to the Knicks. He can't just 21 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,760 sign with the Knicks unless he's gonna take a massive pay cut under his max. 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,799 If you do a sign in trade, it gives you the ability to 23 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,959 get your max money and go to a team that doesn't have the cap space 24 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,400 to sign you outright. They used to be more appealing in general because in 25 00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:53,319 the previous CBA you could get the full amount of years and raises. That 26 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:59,760 has since been changed to where sign and trades cannot be more than four years 27 00:01:59,799 --> 00:02:01,400 long and they have to be at least three seasons long. But there is 28 00:02:01,439 --> 00:02:05,200 a loophole to that. We'll get to it in a minute, but they 29 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:07,280 can only be up to four seasons and you get five percent raises instead of 30 00:02:07,319 --> 00:02:10,400 eight percent raises, where if you re signed with your current team, you 31 00:02:10,439 --> 00:02:14,159 could depending on how old you are. You could sign a five year deal 32 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:16,840 with up to eight percent raises. I think in George's case that's not actually 33 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:21,360 an issue because I think five would conflict with the over thirty eight rule. 34 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:27,199 That's why signing trades generally happen, though. They are a way for a 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:30,479 team to capitalize on moving a player without losing him for nothing. But you 36 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,639 need the player's cooperation, and it's a lot harder to get a player's cooperation 37 00:02:34,719 --> 00:02:38,960 than a team's cooperation, because you're if you're Paul George and you're saying, 38 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,960 well, I'm gonna go here and I'm willing to pay like play for less, 39 00:02:43,879 --> 00:02:46,319 the Clippers should trade you because they should drive and capitalize on your departure. 40 00:02:46,599 --> 00:02:49,599 Whereas if you're a team that's like, well, I just want to 41 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:53,000 like this player is a free agent. Let's use PJ. Washington as all 42 00:02:53,159 --> 00:02:57,759 that he was a bad example this summer. If you use it, if 43 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,560 you want to get rid of the player because you want to go in a 44 00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,599 different you need their cooperation to where they're gonna go, and they might not 45 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:05,919 want to go to that team that you're talking to that's gonna give you the 46 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,599 value for the player that you want, and so sign and trades are normally, 47 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:15,560 I would say, especially now, they would be more dictated by a 48 00:03:15,599 --> 00:03:19,919 player wanting to go to a different team and then his incumbent team facilitating that. 49 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,840 Now you can, as a rule of sign and trade only the first 50 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:29,039 year salary needs to be guaranteed. And so if you're trying to if you're 51 00:03:29,159 --> 00:03:34,039 trying to as a team, let's say I don't fucking know, Let's say 52 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,360 let's say the Knicks again, let's just keep using the Knicks year. Well, 53 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:38,759 they don't have a free Well, yeah, let's say that you want 54 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:45,439 to trade Isaiah Hartenstein and use him that money, or Oji Anoby. Let's 55 00:03:45,439 --> 00:03:50,879 say you wanted to trade Ognnobi to get a different type of package. But 56 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,840 og Anobi isn't, per se a great player, or player X is not 57 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:58,719 a great player, and they're not gonna care where they go as long as 58 00:03:58,759 --> 00:04:04,319 they get paid. You can inflate someone's salary over that deal so that it 59 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,639 helps you get to the necessary money matching. If you were the Knicks and 60 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,280 wanted to acquire and you had a free agent, and you had their bird 61 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:14,680 rights and you're able to sign them, maybe it's a let's say they're like 62 00:04:14,719 --> 00:04:16,560 a seven million dollar a year player and you're willing to pay them like twelve 63 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,079 or fourteen million dollars a year. Get into the issue of base year compensation 64 00:04:20,199 --> 00:04:25,959 sometimes, but you can drum up the amount of money matching you're sending out 65 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:30,199 in a trade if the other team is interested more so in well, we'll 66 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,639 take on this one year inflated salary because you're sending us so much drafs vacuity. 67 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:36,000 Maybe another player that we like and our player wants to go to you 68 00:04:36,079 --> 00:04:40,600 anyway. So that's another reason why sign and trades can happen. It just 69 00:04:40,639 --> 00:04:44,680 doesn't tend to that scenario, eylay out. It doesn't happen as much. 70 00:04:44,759 --> 00:04:48,759 I do think in part because during the offseason, like you're looking at the 71 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:53,839 cap space guys as more major players, and then seldom if it's a player 72 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:57,800 who's worth a damn. In that scenario, you're not gonna need to go 73 00:04:57,839 --> 00:05:01,439 to a team to get the assets required. If that player that you're trading 74 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,480 is under contract, you're not going to need to go to a team that 75 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,360 needs to actually come up with money matching to get like the necessary return. 76 00:05:10,399 --> 00:05:12,720 But in theory. That's what you could do is you can sign and trade 77 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:16,519 a player only guarantee the first year of his deal at an inflated rate, 78 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:21,680 so that it helps you as the team over the cap match salaries for another 79 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:27,399 player that you're trying to acquire. Matt. He also asked how do pick 80 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:30,079 swaps work. Maybe it's been explained, but I've missed it, And just 81 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,000 for clarification, because I think it was mentioned on the most recent podcast, 82 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,680 which was well, we've been we've been putting out the content, so we 83 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,439 were as on vacation, but the content continued to come out. And just 84 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,920 for clarifications, I think it was mentioned on the most recent pod. Why 85 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,240 do teams, example, the Lakers go from having not many to three first 86 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:49,959 round picks to trade after the draft. Sorry if you did explain this was 87 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,319 doing. Was dodging potholes at the time. Well, one, I hope 88 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,560 you successfully dodged those potholes that are not trapped in them. Let's start with 89 00:05:57,639 --> 00:06:01,920 the pick swaps, so pickswap works this way. Let's use the Thunder and 90 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,680 the Mavericks as an example, because as part of the trade, the Thunder 91 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:13,920 did something unique in the sense that at the trade deadline they sent the Mavericks 92 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:15,920 at twenty twenty four. It was a I think it was like the they 93 00:06:15,959 --> 00:06:20,240 sent out a twenty twenty four first round pick in exchange for twenty twenty eight 94 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:26,560 swap rights with the Dallas Mavericks and the swap rights. I mean that trade 95 00:06:26,639 --> 00:06:30,319 was unique for like way, like a bunch of different reasons. Because you 96 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:32,959 the Thunder have done it before, but you seldom see a team trade an 97 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,720 actual first round pick to get a swap. But when you have so many 98 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,560 first round picks like the Thunder, rather than have a bottom five first round 99 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:42,959 pick, do you want to, you know, sort of kick the can 100 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,759 and say, well, we might prefer Dallas's twenty twenty eight first round pick. 101 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,120 Now here's how the swap would work. If in twenty twenty eight, 102 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:56,040 the Thunder end up with the number nineteen pick, but the Dallas Mavericks have 103 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,560 any pick like that comes beforehand. It could be number eighteen, it could 104 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:03,279 be number four, could be number twelve. Oklahoma City will have the right 105 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:09,319 to swap its first round pick, so number nineteen with whatever the Mavericks have, 106 00:07:09,759 --> 00:07:12,759 So you're gonna exercise that swap. If the Mavericks have a better pick 107 00:07:12,839 --> 00:07:15,680 than you as the Thunder. Now, there are sometimes protections on this. 108 00:07:15,759 --> 00:07:18,920 We did a I think we did a segment where we explained protections. We've 109 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:24,800 seen swaps have protections on it. The Celtics o a pick swap to the 110 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,519 Spurs. I think that's also in twenty twenty eight, maybe that's twenty twenty 111 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:30,680 nine. Whatever it is, it's top one protected. And so if the 112 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,360 Celtics end up with the first overall pick the Spur and the Spurs have number 113 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:40,199 five or fifteen, they can't swap because of that top one protection. But 114 00:07:40,279 --> 00:07:45,399 in this case, if the Thunder have number nineteen and the Mavericks have numbers 115 00:07:45,439 --> 00:07:48,959 one through eighteen, because I haven't seen any protections on it, the Thunder 116 00:07:48,959 --> 00:07:53,079 get to swap and they will take the Mavericks pick while sending the Mavericks their 117 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,680 own pick. So the Mavericks would have number nineteen, the Thunder would have 118 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:59,120 the Mavericks pick. Now, if the Mavericks end up with the twenty second 119 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:03,000 pick and the Thunder have the nineteenth pick, you don't exercise that swap because 120 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,639 you have the better pick as the Thunder. That like, that's pretty like 121 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:11,600 that's pretty straightforward for the most part. Where it gets interesting is when you're 122 00:08:11,639 --> 00:08:16,759 the Thunder and you have multiple first round picks in that year, and so 123 00:08:16,839 --> 00:08:22,199 let's just say the Thunder have like three different four different first like first round 124 00:08:22,199 --> 00:08:26,560 picks in twenty twenty eight. There does need to be like, there can 125 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,480 be language in the trade where it's let's say in twenty twenty eight, the 126 00:08:30,560 --> 00:08:33,919 Thunder have their pick, and they have a Houston pick, and they have 127 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,600 a Clippers pick. I don't like, I'm not even this doesn't line up. 128 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,720 Let's just say they have those three picks. There can be language in 129 00:08:39,759 --> 00:08:43,799 the trade that says, we're only swapping. You can only swap us with 130 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,039 your own pick. But you could in theory, if the trade allows it, 131 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,679 the Thunder could use any of the first round picks they own to swap. 132 00:08:50,799 --> 00:08:54,759 And so, just as a scenario, let's say the Thunder own their 133 00:08:54,799 --> 00:08:58,679 own pick that ends up at number that ends up at number twelve, and 134 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,039 then they own Houston's first round pick, which ends up at number fifteen, 135 00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:09,120 and then they own then they own the Clippers's first round pick, which ends 136 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:13,360 up at number twenty three, and then you have the Mavericks pick in twenty 137 00:09:13,519 --> 00:09:16,919 twenty eight that comes in at number fifteen. Well, the Thunder as a 138 00:09:16,919 --> 00:09:20,039 lottery team, in that scenario, you're not gonna swap your own pick, 139 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:24,200 but could you. You could swap the Clippers pick if that trade allows it, 140 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,840 but the number twenty one pick for that, And so when the team 141 00:09:26,879 --> 00:09:31,360 has multiple first round picks, the language of the trade does matter there. 142 00:09:31,519 --> 00:09:35,600 I think that this might be just a straight up swap between Dallas and OKC, 143 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,480 but we would have to see the swap in itself, though, was 144 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:43,120 just pretty straightforward. If that other team's pick is better than the one year 145 00:09:43,159 --> 00:09:45,960 holding, you just get to swap it. And so that's why swaps are 146 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:50,159 appealing. They seldom do get excised, but it does happen, and I 147 00:09:50,200 --> 00:09:54,159 would hazard we're getting into a point where so many long distance swaps have been 148 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,919 traded by Cleveland, by Minnesota, by Houston, by Brooklyn, by the 149 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:01,679 Clippers, that we're gonna see some pretty I'm gonna guess at some point we're 150 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:07,240 gonna see some pretty tasty picks get swapped, and I'm wondering if that forces 151 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:13,120 teams to kind of recalibrate how they're going about trading these these distant first round 152 00:10:13,159 --> 00:10:20,840 picks. The second part of this question from Mattie l was why do teams 153 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,559 go from having not so many picks to having three first round picks? And 154 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,480 so with the Lakers are a good example. At the trade deadline, they 155 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:31,919 could have promised one first round pick in twenty twenty nine, or it could 156 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,720 have been in twenty thirty one, but in twenty twenty nine, let's say 157 00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:41,279 because of the because of the Steppian rule, you can't be without first round 158 00:10:41,279 --> 00:10:46,720 picks in consecutive years. And so in theory, let's just say the Lakers 159 00:10:48,159 --> 00:10:50,919 wanted to have traded twenty twenty eight in twenty twenty nine. Well, you 160 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,120 can't do that because then you would be without a first round pick in two 161 00:10:54,120 --> 00:11:01,039 consecutive drafts. And that's why you couldn't trade like more than one first round 162 00:11:01,039 --> 00:11:03,600 pick at this trade deadline. Is that they owe their twenty twenty seven pick 163 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:07,799 to Utah. There's some protection on it they have. This year's pick goes 164 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,720 to the Pelicans with a right to defer to twenty twenty five. And I 165 00:11:11,759 --> 00:11:15,960 know this can get a little confusing, but that means you can't trade twenty 166 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,679 twenty six, because there's a chance right now, without knowing what the Pelicans 167 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:22,120 are gonna do, that you could be without a twenty twenty five and twenty 168 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:28,440 twenty six second round first round pick in that scenario. Now, future drafts 169 00:11:28,519 --> 00:11:33,360 only apply to drafts that have not taken place yet. That disappears when you 170 00:11:33,399 --> 00:11:39,000 get to draft night, and so in the Lakers' case, it essentially disappears. 171 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:43,559 It functionally technically disappears once the league calendar resets. So when you get 172 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:48,120 to draft night and you're the Lakers, you now know what New Orleans is 173 00:11:48,159 --> 00:11:54,679 gonna do, and so let's just say they elect to defer, so they're 174 00:11:54,720 --> 00:12:03,279 going to take your twenty twenty five pick. You have your twenty twenty four 175 00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:07,039 pick that you can actually you select a player. You trade that player before 176 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:09,879 he's ever played a game that counts that technically counts as one first round pick, 177 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:13,240 especially if you've agreed to the terms of fororehand, the team you're trading 178 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:18,240 him to winds up making that pick. You're picking the player that they want. 179 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,559 Essentially, so now you trade your twenty twenty four, you trade your 180 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,159 twenty twenty nine that was the pick you already had opened and now because you 181 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:31,519 can only trade picks seven years out in advance, two thousand and thirty one 182 00:12:31,639 --> 00:12:35,480 is now opened up because that twenty twenty four draft is over, and so 183 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,960 now you've gone from only having twenty twenty nine to having two thousand and thirty 184 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,960 one and then twenty twenty four, twenty twenty five. It doesn't actually matter 185 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,919 what the Pelicans do. If the Pelicans keep twenty twenty four, the Lakers 186 00:12:48,919 --> 00:12:52,559 can go ahead and trade. You could argue that mystery boxes are more valuables. 187 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:58,039 You could make the argument that having the twenty twenty five pick that hasn't 188 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:01,200 turned into a player yet is more valuable twenty twenty four. But regardless, 189 00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:05,840 as of draft night, whatever the Pelicans do, you can either trade this 190 00:13:05,919 --> 00:13:09,559 year's draft pick as the actual player or next year's draft pick on top of 191 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:15,960 that twenty twenty nine pick and the twenty thirty one pick, because that's seven 192 00:13:16,039 --> 00:13:18,240 drafts away, and as of right now, that would have been more than 193 00:13:18,279 --> 00:13:22,559 seven drafts out, because we would have twenty twenty four, twenty five, 194 00:13:22,639 --> 00:13:24,600 twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine, thirty thirty one. 195 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,039 That's a simple math right there. Hopefully, that answers your questions without 196 00:13:28,039 --> 00:13:33,240 confusing the fuck out of you. Mattiel, Everything Blacks, this is this 197 00:13:33,279 --> 00:13:37,799 is a good one. That's something, or that's stupid, or that's something 198 00:13:37,879 --> 00:13:43,440 stupid. Wow, technical fouls should count as personal fouls, And he clarified 199 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,399 that he was referring that this is how FEBA did it, and so he's 200 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,240 not he's saying that you don't get rid of the free throws that come with 201 00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:54,360 technical fouls. What you're saying is you have this technical. If you get 202 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:58,080 a technical, you would all a second technical. You would also get ejected. 203 00:13:58,399 --> 00:14:03,720 But like let's say you have one technical foul, it also counts as 204 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,840 a personal foul, and so you've gotten one technical and it counts towards your 205 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,559 your total fouls to where six and your fouled out. That technical foul is 206 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:16,159 a part of it. Where in theory you could have five personal fouls and 207 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,519 a technical foul and still be in the game. That would eradicate this. 208 00:14:20,159 --> 00:14:24,919 I would do it because, as Everything Blacks pointed out, it kind of 209 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,480 you know, the double technical if they're going to cance Like if you look 210 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:33,679 at that as sort of canceling each other out, it still counts towards your 211 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,919 personal foul tally. You could also go this way and say should account towards 212 00:14:37,919 --> 00:14:43,399 the team's total quarterfoul tallies. But I like the idea of accounting as a 213 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,480 personal foul because maybe it this way it's players from knowing you know you could 214 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:48,799 get and if you get called for a foul, you want to argue it, 215 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,919 and you're fine getting it upgraded to a technical because it doesn't really Yeah, 216 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,840 you give up the free throw, but it doesn't do anything to yeah, 217 00:14:54,919 --> 00:14:58,720 put you one technical away from getting ejected, but it doesn't impact your 218 00:14:58,759 --> 00:15:01,399 ability to use the rest of your fouls. I'm all for the gamesmanship of 219 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,879 let's I think that would probably cut down on the amount of complaining after personal 220 00:15:05,919 --> 00:15:11,120 fouls were given out at the bare minimum. Maybe it wouldn't, but that'd 221 00:15:11,159 --> 00:15:16,279 be something I would absolutely that I would absolutely look into. Roumiscal asked, 222 00:15:16,279 --> 00:15:20,120 and this might have been a question part of a larger discussion that was taking 223 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:24,440 place in the mail bag section of Discord. Why is it when a front 224 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,639 office puts together a squad that consists of three very good players and some decent 225 00:15:28,679 --> 00:15:31,799 specialists in supporting roles, be it through trade or through free agency, we 226 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,200 applaud that front office, Yet when the players themselves seek to have the same 227 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,320 agency to form a team, we dub them as snakes, gold diggers, 228 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,840 and ring chasers. Isn't that why every Isn't that what every franchise is doing? 229 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:50,000 Ring chasing? I guess pen an entire podcast on this question. There 230 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:56,080 definitely is a discrepancy between how these are viewed, and there's like the way 231 00:15:56,120 --> 00:16:03,679 that people are pro billionaire owners or at least evaluate their teams through that lens 232 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,559 versus as the players. That's weird, But I also think it's something a 233 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:14,759 trend that's kind of not that it's not that it's being eradicated, but he 234 00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:18,799 definitely has shifted because we have more people who are fans of players than just 235 00:16:18,919 --> 00:16:23,200 teams, and so a big part of this is you're rooting for a team, 236 00:16:23,679 --> 00:16:27,639 and so when a player leaves, like you're just automatically gonna side with 237 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:30,120 that team. And so if it's oh, Kevin, let's use just Kevin 238 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,879 Durant as an example. If you're a fan of the Thunder rather than Kevin 239 00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:36,480 Durant, you're gonna be Well, he didn't want to do the work in 240 00:16:36,559 --> 00:16:40,639 okac or he took the easy way out, and that's where that view is 241 00:16:40,679 --> 00:16:44,039 born from. Now. I think the other part of it is, I 242 00:16:44,039 --> 00:16:47,879 mean, there's some uncomfortable elements too, is are is there a racial component 243 00:16:47,919 --> 00:16:52,320 to it because this league is largely a black league with a ton of people 244 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,600 of color in it? And is that gonna skew some of the coverage. 245 00:16:56,120 --> 00:17:00,320 Hell fucking yes, it's going to and that's wrong. So they're could be 246 00:17:00,399 --> 00:17:03,639 that element of it as well. The other thing here, though, too 247 00:17:03,039 --> 00:17:07,359 is and this is probably more of a problem with the discourse championship counts. 248 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,160 Like we're all about trying to distill down player values to this raw data, 249 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:17,039 and it goes there gonna be box score numbers, it's all star selections, 250 00:17:17,079 --> 00:17:19,559 it's all NBA bids, and then it's well, how many rings did this 251 00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:25,720 superstar win? And when you're going to judge a player's legacy based off how 252 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:27,440 many rings they win, well, it makes sense. They want to go 253 00:17:27,559 --> 00:17:32,880 Kevin Durant want to go the Warriors win as many championships as possible. You 254 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:36,519 also, people also want it to be hard not to be a given, 255 00:17:36,759 --> 00:17:40,920 especially the people who don't root for Let's use the Kevin Durant era Warriors, 256 00:17:41,279 --> 00:17:44,119 the fans of other twenty nine teams, they're gonna prefer if it was harder, 257 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:45,400 or just say, well, he took the easy way out like that 258 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:49,599 kind of turned the you know, the Warriors along with the Cavaliers of that 259 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:53,880 eraror turned it felt like every postseason into just sort of this inevitability. And 260 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:57,400 so that's just gonna rub fans of other teams and media members the wrong way. 261 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,599 They want it to be hard. Whether that's fair or not. There 262 00:18:02,799 --> 00:18:07,160 is something to the effect of, yes, a player earns their agency and 263 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:11,119 they tough it out in let's just choose Vin rand and Oklahoma City for seven 264 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,599 to nine years, however long it was. At that point they structured their 265 00:18:14,599 --> 00:18:18,440 contracts accordingly, they earned the right to go into free agency sign with whoever 266 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:22,279 they pleased. The league facilitated that with that huge salary cap jump this year. 267 00:18:22,279 --> 00:18:26,920 But this even gets into you know, trade demands with players. If 268 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,720 they've been with a certain team for as long and they're coming up on the 269 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:30,880 final year of their deal, it's well within their right to say, hey, 270 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,559 I'm gonna leave after next summer. You should move me before I leave. 271 00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:40,720 You with absolutely nothing, so they earned that right. But there's something 272 00:18:40,839 --> 00:18:44,599 it's a you start to look at. It's not just the number of rings, 273 00:18:44,839 --> 00:18:48,759 but the level of difficulty behind them. And there are a few factors 274 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,119 that go into that. The two that probably stand out is, well one, 275 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:52,799 who did you play? Who did you go through? That's why some 276 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,920 people have choose last year as an example, think that the Nuggets had like 277 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:00,160 an easy road, And I think maybe the road was easy or than others 278 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,200 would have than other years. But I actually think it was because the Nuggets 279 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:08,440 kind of walked through their playoff bracket because they were the only great team in 280 00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:11,640 the Western Conference last year. And now there might be a couple of great 281 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,119 teams, but the Nuggets were great, and so that's why they made other 282 00:19:15,559 --> 00:19:21,599 not great teams look not so great. Go figure. The other thing is 283 00:19:22,359 --> 00:19:26,480 you're going to ascribe more meaning. And I don't know whether this is right 284 00:19:26,599 --> 00:19:29,759 or wrong. I do think there is a level of correctness to it. 285 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:33,640 If Kevin Durant had won in Oklahoma City, it would have meant more because 286 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,119 he was there longer, and he did it in a market that wasn't conducive 287 00:19:38,519 --> 00:19:41,920 or in a position to get these super big names, whereas maybe he didn't 288 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:48,200 consider Golden State glamour franchise before Steph Curry became Steph Curry and Draymond Green popped, 289 00:19:48,519 --> 00:19:51,720 it doesn't matter. They became the Warriors and were a team that could 290 00:19:51,759 --> 00:19:56,160 become this destination, even though the Bulls have not been a great team in 291 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,599 quite some time and there's not really like a level of you call them a 292 00:20:00,599 --> 00:20:03,920 flagship franchise, but they're not treated as such nationally. You look at these 293 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,400 markets and it's, oh, you could get why a player would want to 294 00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:08,799 go to New York or Los Angeles, even if they've been bad in the 295 00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:12,079 past. Maybe not Chicago so much. They could be an exception that comes 296 00:20:12,119 --> 00:20:17,480 back to, you know, people rooting for players over teams, and I 297 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,240 don't really know if that's the majority rule by the way. That opens up 298 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:26,480 a whole different, separate issue. But when you're looking at why, like 299 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:27,839 how a ring would be harder do I think it would have been harder for 300 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:32,440 Kevin Durant to win in Oklahoma City because of the small market limitations. I'm 301 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:34,079 not talking about the James Harden trades specifically, though that would have been part 302 00:20:34,079 --> 00:20:37,440 of it, but you were there for longer. You're in a market that 303 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,079 it's harder to attract talent you don't already have. I think that's the best 304 00:20:41,079 --> 00:20:45,559 way to phrase it. Because you can draft talent and retain talent. Actually 305 00:20:45,599 --> 00:20:48,240 think that's pretty easy. But look at how many years the Blazers had with 306 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:52,319 Damian, look at how many years Oklahoma City had with Kevin Durant Russell Westbrook. 307 00:20:52,519 --> 00:20:55,839 So like you get like you can get a decade or more with these 308 00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,960 players. Talent retention doesn't necessarily seem to be the issue. It's talent acquisition 309 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,599 outside of the draft. So to have done it in a market with a 310 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:10,200 team that wasn't in a position or had those intrinsic advantages, it just in 311 00:21:10,279 --> 00:21:14,359 theory makes it tougher. And also because you went through more failures with that 312 00:21:14,519 --> 00:21:18,200 core you lost in twenty twelve, You went through the James Harden Tree, 313 00:21:18,279 --> 00:21:21,200 you went through the surge of Baka Tree, you dealt with the Russell Westbrook 314 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,839 injuries. As opposed to going to a Warriors team, there's no I want 315 00:21:23,839 --> 00:21:26,559 to make clear, there's nothing wrong with that, but I do think you 316 00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:30,000 need to be prepared to accept there's some discourse on it. That would be 317 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,160 toxic. By saying the rings don't count or Kevin Durant's a coward, that 318 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,160 is wrong. I go to make that clear. But for to say that 319 00:21:38,319 --> 00:21:45,599 Kevin Durant's titles two championship rings mean less than the one that Yannis won with 320 00:21:45,640 --> 00:21:49,680 Milwaukee, I think it's fair and it's you don't want to that should not 321 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,920 be the end all be on. We're talking about legacies, but I think 322 00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:56,119 it's fair to have that discussion and frame it in that way. Now, 323 00:21:56,119 --> 00:22:00,599 could Yiannis have left if that ring or if the Bucks and trade for Drew 324 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,319 Holliday. That's part of it too, Like you get into this, I've 325 00:22:03,319 --> 00:22:06,319 been here long enough. We can't win. Teams are getting ultimatums, they 326 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:11,039 feel pressure. It just makes it harder than if you joined another team that 327 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,160 either already had other superstars in place rather than getting them, or the Warriors 328 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:19,480 case had both, which was the superstars in place, and like championship equity 329 00:22:19,599 --> 00:22:23,240 active championship equity, not just that they had won a title already, but 330 00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,839 that they were still the league's foremost contender even though they had just lost in 331 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:33,039 two thou in sixteen, And so if you getting into calling them snakes. 332 00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:36,960 I haven't really seen them called gold diggers necessarily, but like snakes and ring 333 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:40,480 chasers, I think, yeah, everyone's fucking ring chaser. Why else are 334 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:41,759 you in basketball? I mean to if you want to be honest, hey, 335 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:44,680 I want to score a bunch of points, be the future player, 336 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,440 just make a lot of money. I don't care about championships. More power 337 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:49,200 to you. But on some level everyone's ring chasing, so it's a frame 338 00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:55,319 it that way is definitely disingenuous, but I will say there is probably some 339 00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:02,680 merit to the idea that certain championships mean more and we're definitely more difficult than 340 00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:06,000 others. And when you leave teams or get traded from teams to team up 341 00:23:06,039 --> 00:23:14,240 with other superstars, those circumstances are inherently, if not appreciably, more favorable 342 00:23:14,599 --> 00:23:19,000 than had you stayed in one place and gone through just this extended cycle of 343 00:23:19,599 --> 00:23:23,480 roster churn, of window churn, having a win within a different window than 344 00:23:23,519 --> 00:23:27,559 creating your own elsewhere. And there are different levels to it where if you 345 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:33,680 just get traded and there's only one star there, all right, like that 346 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,680 doesn't seem as big of a deal anymore, And maybe you've set the stage 347 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:38,279 for other stars to come, like Kevin Durant and Kyrie Evern kind of teaming 348 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:42,400 up and just going to Brooklyn. That's different than Kevin Durant joining the Warriors 349 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,279 what they were trying to do in Brooklyn and then they go out and get 350 00:23:45,319 --> 00:23:48,720 James Harden. That was actually harder to do than what happened with Golden State 351 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:52,640 and Kevin Durant. There's just different levels to everything. Now, what I 352 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:59,440 will say is I do think that collectively, while the RINGS discourse hasn't necessarily 353 00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:04,519 changed, we're a little bit more warmer or understanding of players who do this, 354 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:08,119 do what Kevin Durant did than we were in the past. Now, 355 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,279 does that have more to do with people are a fan of the league and 356 00:24:11,319 --> 00:24:15,440 the players more so than a specific team. Does that go into it? 357 00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:22,720 It does feel like there has been a drive for behind player empowerment, which 358 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:27,240 is really superstar empowerment when you actively think about it, and so you're okay 359 00:24:27,319 --> 00:24:30,839 with players made. Let's use the Damian Lillard trade request or demand as an 360 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:37,200 example where there were people inside Miami, of course, but also inside Portland, 361 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,160 outside Portland, outside Miami, who thought, yeah, the Blazers duo 362 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,319 it to Dame to just send him where he wants, and so you have 363 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,359 a player making a one team trade request at that point ultimately doesn't go there. 364 00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:52,920 But there were people who not only were okay with Damian Lillard requesting a 365 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,720 trade or demanding a trade because of how much time he spent in Portland, 366 00:24:55,759 --> 00:25:00,160 it clearly wasn't going to happen, but they were okay with the actual one 367 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:04,200 team or the limited list. And we've become more accepting of players having lists, 368 00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:07,359 or we've been more accepting of well, they have one or two years 369 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,519 left on their deal, they have the leverage to force their way out if 370 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:15,759 they want. And so I don't think that maneuver is viewed as negatively as 371 00:25:15,799 --> 00:25:21,839 it was years ago because we're just so maybe we're numb or we've grown to 372 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:26,440 expect so much more player movement than we did, you know before, basically 373 00:25:26,519 --> 00:25:32,240 before the Lebron decision, and even like maybe like there was the whole Celtics 374 00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:37,559 getting KG and Ray Allen, but ever since Lebron left Cleveland the first time, 375 00:25:38,039 --> 00:25:41,960 it feels like we're more numb to player movement, more used to it, 376 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:45,319 we expect it and so we're more okay with these things. Does it 377 00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:48,039 change the way Are we then going to turn around and critique these players or 378 00:25:48,759 --> 00:25:53,480 trying tominish or take away detract from their legacies. A lot of that stuff 379 00:25:53,559 --> 00:25:57,000 is still going to come to bear because Lebron hasn't retired yet, Kevin Durant 380 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:02,160 hasn't retired yet. So there's definitely an discrepancy in the way that it is 381 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,240 framed. But you seldom I will say, it is to me harder as 382 00:26:07,279 --> 00:26:11,480 a as a front office to build up a contender as it is for a 383 00:26:11,519 --> 00:26:17,319 player to just leave and start a new to join forces with an incumbent one, 384 00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:22,559 or just team up with bigger names elsewhere. But again, and I'm 385 00:26:22,559 --> 00:26:26,400 stepping on the toes of my own point here, it's also hard to live 386 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,759 through seven eight nine years of not winning a title, of being the face 387 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,480 of not just the franchise, but of criticism for not winning that title. 388 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,839 And you've now earned your right to go into free agency. We should all 389 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:41,720 accept that. But I do think there is a like, uh, I 390 00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:45,359 do think there is a level of what we can analyze, like what those 391 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,759 titles mean or what was actually easier, what was harder. And I think 392 00:26:48,799 --> 00:26:53,319 the bigger discrepancy is when it comes to you know, like if we're gonna 393 00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:57,880 talk about payrolls, for instance, when we call players overpaid. That's where 394 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:03,640 it feels like fans, media members, people who cover the league might be 395 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:07,319 more conditioned to, well, we're gonna celebrate that, but nos Reed. 396 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,960 Let's say, Wow, the Timberwolves, that was highway robbery that contract, 397 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,880 and it's like, well, that's great, but if Nosren has gotten paid 398 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,240 more, yeah, you criticize the Timberwolves, but Nosreen is the one that's 399 00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:19,960 tied to that contract more than the Timberwolves are, and so they kind of 400 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,519 skate under that a little bit. I feel like there's more of a tendency 401 00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:27,000 to side, or that there's not just more of a tendency, but it's 402 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,279 it might be I don't want to use the word valid because this question is 403 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,440 valid for Rubiscal. There's I have more of an issue where it's, well, 404 00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:38,279 let's celebrate teams ducking the luxury tax. Let's celebrate them getting players at 405 00:27:38,319 --> 00:27:41,440 a discount, but we're gonna go around. We've had this discussion on this 406 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,000 podcast about Tobias Harris, like he's sort of the root of stuff that's wrong 407 00:27:45,079 --> 00:27:48,039 in Philly, or their lack of maneuverability on the trade market. Because he 408 00:27:48,079 --> 00:27:52,640 makes so much money, the sigsers offer him that contract that's not on him, 409 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:53,480 and he's a really good player, and we don't need to tie him 410 00:27:53,519 --> 00:27:57,519 to his pay grade, and yet we are more inclined to associate him with 411 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,480 his pay grade then we're just are looking at what he's doing in a vacuum 412 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:06,119 on the court as a useful player. That's the stuff I would take issue 413 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:08,720 with more than Yes, if you're out there and you're calling players cowards because 414 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,200 they left the Thunder to go to the Warriors, I would call Kevin Ran 415 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:17,920 an opportunist. Like that's that's what a lot of people are their careers, 416 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,680 that they're going to be opportunists. Not like that doesn't make him a mercenary. 417 00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:26,279 So like and look, I mean the Kevin Durant situation too, is 418 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,839 there's something about he signs an extension to stay with Brooklyn, tries to get 419 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:32,960 out, they say no, but then they red to trade him later. 420 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,240 That's gonna rub some people the wrong way. The Nets are not blameless in 421 00:28:36,319 --> 00:28:40,039 that, but what he did to get the Phoenix is just like, that's 422 00:28:40,039 --> 00:28:41,680 a lot easier then Well, I left in free agency and toughed it out 423 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,720 with the Nets and didn't sign an extension or get my financial security good. 424 00:28:45,759 --> 00:28:49,240 He made the smart play for himself. But I think that this this discussion, 425 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:52,880 we're absolutely right that the as when you are rooting for a team, 426 00:28:53,039 --> 00:28:56,839 and I think this is the that's the genesis of signing with the front office 427 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,880 or by extension, billionaire team owners caring about the payrolls, the contracts, 428 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,599 the luxury taxes, is you're not rooting for the players specifically, if you're 429 00:29:04,079 --> 00:29:07,640 if you're a nos Reed fan, it's Obias Harris fan. You want you 430 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,480 should want them to just get paid as much money as possible while playing as 431 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:14,160 well as possible, regardless of what results turn in or what that does to 432 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,839 the team's flexibility. When you actively root for a team, uh, you 433 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,000 are going to side with that team. And so part of that is fandom. 434 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:23,319 Now, when you're looking at it from the leeue Y perspective, where 435 00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:26,759 I'm neither a Warriors nor a Thunder fan, I'm sitting there calling Kevin Durant 436 00:29:26,759 --> 00:29:30,240 a coward. Uh, and he screwed over the Thunder this and that they 437 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,720 didn't get anything for his departure, then yeah, like that that shit is 438 00:29:34,039 --> 00:29:37,359 that shit is cringey, But I do think it's a fair discussion. It's 439 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,599 I don't think it makes Kevin Durant. He's not any less great because of 440 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,440 what he did. If you're trying to look at the level of difficulty on 441 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,839 those titles or what those titles mean relative to Steph having won while staying in 442 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:55,119 Golden State for his entire career to this point, to through navigating through the 443 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,640 thin, through the thick and thin or whatever to get to this point, 444 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:03,680 Like that's that's objective. What Steph did is objectively harder than what Kevin Durant 445 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,319 did. And I don't think there's anything wrong with saying that. I'm not 446 00:30:06,359 --> 00:30:08,559 saying that Ruby's galler. Anyone else said that what Kevin Durant did is just 447 00:30:08,599 --> 00:30:11,960 as valuable as what Steph did. Some of the commentary round it, though 448 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,559 I'd absolutely agree, is just it's cringey as fuck, and just to call 449 00:30:15,599 --> 00:30:18,920 them cowards, to call them ring chasers, It's like, is that really 450 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,279 did is it? No, It's not like that. That's kind of the 451 00:30:22,319 --> 00:30:25,000 point of we want players care about winning. That's the point of this entire 452 00:30:25,039 --> 00:30:29,440 fucking thing. The problem is is that so many people argue most people not 453 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:33,960 only want players to win, they want them to win while dealing with a 454 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:37,359 ton of adversity. And you've windowed down the amount of adversity by going from 455 00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:41,680 a situation like what was going on at Okay. See as good as they 456 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,519 were by the way they were, they were championship contender. They almost beat 457 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:49,000 that Warriors team that Kevin Durant went ahead and joined. But like, we 458 00:30:49,039 --> 00:30:52,279 want it to be hard. We want to see the failure rather than go 459 00:30:52,359 --> 00:30:56,960 somewhere and look not that what Kevin Durant did in Brooklyn was a failure, 460 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:57,960 but for different reasons. But like in Golden State, he went there and 461 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,799 they just won. And so that's why issues like that are going to be 462 00:31:00,799 --> 00:31:04,480 deluded. I will say, I really do feel like the trade demand discourse 463 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,559 has changed, though I fell on that. I'm like somewhere in between, 464 00:31:07,599 --> 00:31:11,119 I know, hot taky where it's yeah, Dame has the right to request 465 00:31:11,119 --> 00:31:15,720 a trade. It's the Blazer's right to send him wherever they want or not 466 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:18,400 to trade him. He signed a contract there, Like that's just the reality 467 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,880 of the NBA, and I think that if you want to give lists, 468 00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,039 that's fine. If you want to go through pre agency where you have one 469 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:26,799 or two years left on your deal, that's fine. You got to give 470 00:31:26,839 --> 00:31:30,119 more than one team as a list, so let's not try and manipulate your 471 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,480 value that way. I would side with that, But again that's the players 472 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:37,599 and their agents and their their camp's right, and no, we're gonna we 473 00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:41,680 want to be where we want to be. We're gonna try and orchestrate our 474 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,319 way there, my straw away there, And I understand that. But it's 475 00:31:44,359 --> 00:31:45,480 if you really want to get to one place, then maybe don't sign a 476 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,759 contract and do what Kevin Durant didn't, just leave go sign with them. 477 00:31:49,119 --> 00:31:53,559 Uh could do an entire podcast podcast series on that. Rubik's Girl Ruby Scalps. 478 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:59,279 All right, great, great question. Austin had a couple here, 479 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:05,759 let's begin with Let's begin with this one from Austin. Can you do a 480 00:32:05,799 --> 00:32:09,319 quick clarification of the differences of hitting the cap versus tax versus second apron and 481 00:32:09,359 --> 00:32:15,279 what the consequences and pros of staying undergoing over each are. Hitting the salary 482 00:32:15,279 --> 00:32:17,359 cap doesn't really mean anything. It just means that you're capped out, and 483 00:32:19,039 --> 00:32:22,759 if you want to sign a player, you have to use an exception or 484 00:32:22,759 --> 00:32:25,559 you have minimums to offer. Basically, if you go into the tax, 485 00:32:27,039 --> 00:32:30,119 those exceptions if you're looking at the mid level, if you're in the tax, 486 00:32:30,319 --> 00:32:35,240 your exception is going to be smaller. Now what's interesting this year is 487 00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:37,240 the first apron, or moving forward, the first apron of the tax, 488 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,799 which I think is like seven million above the luxury tax. You are now 489 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,000 going to be limited in different ways. This year we saw if you wanted 490 00:32:45,039 --> 00:32:50,079 to sign someone in the buyout market, they had to be making less than 491 00:32:50,119 --> 00:32:52,759 the non tax payer's mid level exception for you to sign them. Whereas it 492 00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:58,079 didn't matter. So for an example, if Kyle Lowry broker to buy out 493 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,200 with the Charlotte Hornets, he wouldn't have been able to go and sign with 494 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,839 the Los Angeles Clippers because they were so far they were there in the second 495 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,160 apron, but they were past the first apron of the luxury tax. But 496 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,880 he could sign with the Sixers because they were I mean they were under they 497 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,279 got under the tax, but they also did they get under the text. 498 00:33:16,319 --> 00:33:19,440 Yeah, I think they got under the tax. But they were also they 499 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,319 were under the first apron, so he was able to go sign even though 500 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:25,079 he was making more than a non tax payer mid level. There are going 501 00:33:25,119 --> 00:33:29,400 to be I think more limitations imposed on the first apron as we kind of 502 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,960 move forward, the salary matching gets a little bit tougher. It's the second 503 00:33:34,039 --> 00:33:37,599 apron is a big one. And so these are all the things that have 504 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,240 already started being phased in, and they will be continued to some of them 505 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,400 will continue to be phased in. So I'll list off some of the more 506 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,599 putative things and this one so next season. Right now, the second apron 507 00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:50,839 is set at about one hundred and ninety million. It's normally supposed to be 508 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,720 like between seventeen and eighteen million above the first apron. And so you have 509 00:33:53,759 --> 00:33:58,480 the luxury tax, which is that's your you know, that's your hard tap, 510 00:33:58,759 --> 00:34:01,480 like that's your or your first apron. Oh my god, excuse me. 511 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,960 It's basically it's also like kind of your hardcap is like you can't if 512 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:08,199 you're over the first apron, you're not gonna be able to do acquire players 513 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:10,920 via sign and trades. You need to stay under that if you're going to 514 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,239 if you're going to make a sign and trade. So like, that's kind 515 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:19,880 of your your hardcap with some other limitations baked in. Now. Now the 516 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,239 second apron, which is again seventeen to just look at the first apron from 517 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,079 now on if you don't want to know the exact number, and then add 518 00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:30,039 seventeen eighteen million dollars that that's your second apron. If you're in the second 519 00:34:30,079 --> 00:34:34,320 apron, you will no longer be able to use your tax payers mid level 520 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,760 exception. So you already had a smaller exception to begin with, and now 521 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,199 you can no longer use use it. If you remain in the second apron 522 00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:45,480 three out of five seasons, your first round pick will automatically move to the 523 00:34:45,599 --> 00:34:50,880 end of the round beginning the very next season. That's gonna be something to 524 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,400 monitor with a team like the Clippers the Warriors. It's it's like a different 525 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:59,079 form of the repeater at tax basically, except that comes in the form of 526 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:02,519 fucking with your draft picks. First round pick seven years out. Now, 527 00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:07,119 if you're in the second apron, that's a valuable asset, by the way, 528 00:35:07,159 --> 00:35:08,559 for like, if that's how you acquire players when you're capped out. 529 00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:12,519 In general, is via trades or you get lucky on the minimum market. 530 00:35:13,159 --> 00:35:15,159 You can no longer trade first round picks seven years out. If you're in 531 00:35:15,199 --> 00:35:21,599 the second apron. That's going to start next season as well salaries. This 532 00:35:21,679 --> 00:35:25,320 begins this offseason. They cannot be aggregated or combined to trade for a single 533 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:29,079 player. So if you're in the second apron you want to trade for two 534 00:35:29,159 --> 00:35:31,920 players, or you want to trade two players from one player, you can't 535 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,480 do it now. That can't happen now. This is look. Teams can't 536 00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:39,880 use trade exceptions that were created a prior year expiration, be damned. Trade 537 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:44,679 exceptions are valuable because you can help create other exceptions. It allows you to 538 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:49,760 effectively get a player without having to send anything out like that is the they're 539 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,519 created in multiplayer trades and non simultaneous trades. But to not be able to 540 00:35:52,599 --> 00:35:57,440 use a trade exception, that also is going to kneecap these teams that are 541 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,679 over the cap because those again exceptions, draft picks, those are your best 542 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:05,239 way of acquiring acquiring talent. Once you're over the caps, when you're getting 543 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:07,880 into the luxury tax and the different aprons, you're losing all these tools. 544 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:12,719 Now you can also no longer send cash out in trades anymore. I think 545 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,679 that starts this summer as well. Teams use those to buy draft picks, 546 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:21,039 they use those to compensate other teams to take on players they don't want to 547 00:36:21,039 --> 00:36:22,199 not be able to do that so that they can cut their tax bill. 548 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,239 To not be able to do that anymore is a big freaking deal. And 549 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,679 so those limitations, these are real, and I think there might be a 550 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:34,000 level of fucket for a year or two. And we've seen teams kind of 551 00:36:34,039 --> 00:36:36,719 go down that road. Boston, maybe Equippers, a little bit, Golden 552 00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:39,599 State for sure. It wouldn't surprise me if Golden State even tries to get 553 00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:44,480 out of the second apron or the tax entirely before next season, just to 554 00:36:44,599 --> 00:36:47,920 ensure that they're not starting the like that this clock on. Being in the 555 00:36:49,079 --> 00:36:52,639 in the second apron, it's very expensive and that's an addition to the tax. 556 00:36:52,639 --> 00:36:54,199 Bans aren't gonna go up. But when you're in the second aprin basically 557 00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:59,039 as a tax team, this is a roundabout, but I'm rounding up, 558 00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:02,800 and there's different tax right now. But if you're more than what is twenty 559 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,920 million dollars into the luxury tax, which is you know, that's gonna be 560 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:12,639 second Aprin territory for the most part, every dollar you spend is gonna coount 561 00:37:12,679 --> 00:37:16,320 for like four dollars against Like, so if you sign you know, if 562 00:37:16,559 --> 00:37:20,679 if you're twenty million dollars of the luxury tax right now, and you sign 563 00:37:20,679 --> 00:37:24,119 a player, do a minimum contract, and let's say the minimum salary, 564 00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:29,559 it's like the veteran is minimum comes out to like two million or something like, 565 00:37:29,599 --> 00:37:31,039 that's gonna cost you, like, actually ten million because it's gonna be 566 00:37:31,039 --> 00:37:36,159 eight million dollars in taxes on top of that two million dollar player. That's 567 00:37:36,559 --> 00:37:39,199 like, so there's the financial just the raw financial penalties. And I believe 568 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,880 the tax bans are gonna start going up. They're worse if you're a repeater, 569 00:37:42,960 --> 00:37:45,960 but I think the new tax bans kick in in twenty twenty five. 570 00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,880 If I'm not mistaken, I would have to clarify that there's a big difference 571 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,840 right now. Though the first Apron kind of whatever definitely limiting a little bit. 572 00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:57,760 I mean, the stuff with the not being able to sign trades in 573 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:00,320 a buy out market, you can't get players in a sign up trade. 574 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:01,880 But that was kind of already true, like with the if you were gonna 575 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:07,280 come over the hardcap, like like that you always had the hardcap, is 576 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,960 my point. That's what the first apron is functioning as. However you're seeing 577 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,360 and like the salary matching it's dipped a little bit to one hundred and ten 578 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:21,679 percent. That's you know, of the matching salary like it's it's limiting. 579 00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:22,960 It's the second apron. That's a big deal. So I hope, hope 580 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:30,559 I outlined those limitations well enough for you, Austin. Other one can can 581 00:38:30,599 --> 00:38:34,840 you clarify how buyouts work financially? Like when Westbrook was making forty million dollars 582 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,440 for the Lakers then went to the Clippers for five million? Is he just 583 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,880 getting double paid? Does the new salary come off the team's old obligation to 584 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:47,000 pay? So there's buyouts and then there's like being outright waved, when you're 585 00:38:47,039 --> 00:38:52,280 outright waved if you sign a new deal. So there are two ways that 586 00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:54,320 this can happen if you're waived. Let's just I'm gonna use a five million 587 00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:59,960 dollar player as an example. There will be pro rations here these exceptions, 588 00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,039 they get pro rated as the season goes on. If you. Let's use 589 00:39:04,039 --> 00:39:07,239 this first example. You waive a ten million dollar player. They are now 590 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:08,840 on waivers. It wasn't a buyout. It's a ten million dollar player. 591 00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:13,840 That cap it is still ten million dollars. If there's a team that has 592 00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:17,559 the money to just claim his full salary, you will be that offsets. 593 00:39:17,559 --> 00:39:22,039 You will no longer be responsible for that player's that ten million dollar salary. 594 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,519 However, if they clear waivers, or let's say they clear waivers, they 595 00:39:27,599 --> 00:39:30,719 sign a different deal, and let's say the team has the money or the 596 00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:37,519 exception to pay them three million dollars. What you're basically what you get to 597 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:45,119 offset here is the difference between that three million dollars a minimum contract, and 598 00:39:45,119 --> 00:39:47,639 then you divide it by two. And so let's just say I'm using made 599 00:39:47,679 --> 00:39:52,360 up numbers here. They sign that player for three million dollars, and let's 600 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:59,880 say his veteran minimum salary would have been let's just say it's like one point 601 00:40:00,199 --> 00:40:04,239 million, So three million dollars mnus one point six million dollars is one point 602 00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:07,480 four million dollars. You slice that in half. That team saves the original 603 00:40:07,519 --> 00:40:12,360 team saves seven hundred thousand dollars in that so the player is still making out 604 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,960 well, but the team gets some of that money back. They're only going 605 00:40:15,039 --> 00:40:17,440 to get all of that money back if that players just picked up off waivers 606 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:22,920 in general, meaning a team has the space to essentially claim that player's entire 607 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,280 salary or that player which is the minimum salary to begin with. Buyouts are 608 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:32,000 different because nothing is offset when they sign with a new team because a play 609 00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:36,039 well. It can be, but typically as part of a buyout, Let's 610 00:40:36,039 --> 00:40:42,519 say you're making forty million dollars and you agree with the Utah Jazz, Russell 611 00:40:42,519 --> 00:40:45,679 Westbrook was on to give back five million dollars as part of that buyout, 612 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,440 and then you turn around and you sign with a team for three million dollars. 613 00:40:50,519 --> 00:40:52,599 Let's say the money to give that to you, you don't offset any 614 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:57,519 additional money for the Jazz or that other team because as part of the buyout 615 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,119 you agree to kind of wave that's set off amount, because the set off 616 00:41:01,159 --> 00:41:05,360 is coming in the form of I'm giving you back this five million dollars now. 617 00:41:05,639 --> 00:41:07,559 And so in most buyouts there can be set off amounts. But in 618 00:41:07,559 --> 00:41:14,199 the case of Russell Westbrook, if you were making forty million dollars and you 619 00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:17,320 agreed to a buyout, you most likely already gave your money back, and 620 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:21,239 so if you were making forty million and you agree, yes, it's some 621 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,719 of it's already been paid, but you agreed to give back two million to 622 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:29,239 get the buyout. So your earnings are at thirty eight million for that year. 623 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,079 But then you go sign somewhere because they have the money for five million, 624 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,719 you're actually making forty three million that year, so you're coming out ahead 625 00:41:36,039 --> 00:41:38,079 and your team gets back The original team gets back the two million that you 626 00:41:38,119 --> 00:41:40,639 gave them back. They don't get back anything else. That's kind of the 627 00:41:40,639 --> 00:41:45,320 difference between buyouts and being waived. It's very convoluted and there's exceptions. Sometimes 628 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,840 in a buyout you don't wave the set off amount, but normally as part 629 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,960 of giving back money, like it probably happened with Kyle Lowry and the Hornets, 630 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,840 is that they waive the right to get a set off amount, and 631 00:41:55,840 --> 00:42:00,519 so whatever money he gave back in a buyout, that's what his team gets 632 00:42:00,559 --> 00:42:04,320 back. And even with the set off amount, like, it's not necessarily 633 00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:07,880 the like the player losing money, they're always going to come out ahead or 634 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:12,199 net net even good question though, for this time of year, since we 635 00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,239 are kind of in buiot season, it's already started to unfold. And then 636 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:22,039 Austin finally also asked, we're the most least favorable teams to play for financially 637 00:42:22,039 --> 00:42:24,039 based on taxes, city, cost of living, et cetera. Assuming equal 638 00:42:24,039 --> 00:42:32,159 contracts. So the lowest income taxes in NBA in NBA markets, So there 639 00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:37,800 are lower income taxes elsewhere, but in NBA markets are Texas, Florida, 640 00:42:37,079 --> 00:42:43,000 and Memphis. And so in theory, if you're dealing with contracts being equal 641 00:42:43,159 --> 00:42:45,960 and yeah, living expenses, they're going to be higher in if you're living 642 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,599 in Miami, you want to live in South Beach, then if you want 643 00:42:49,599 --> 00:42:51,840 to live in Texas, but like if you want to live in the heart 644 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:54,719 of Dallas, that's going to change things. Memphis would probably be just the 645 00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:59,159 best if you wanted to live in a hub while also having a low income 646 00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:00,880 rate, like, you might make out better there. What's interesting, and 647 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,800 I don't think they changed, is the new CBA is like NBA players pay 648 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:09,800 taxes in every city that they provide a day of like services in and so 649 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:14,239 I wouldn't want to have to be the accountant filing those taxes because so when 650 00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:16,679 you're traveling on the road, that gets like sort of caked into where I 651 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:22,000 believe, Okay, you could play for the Heat, but like and be 652 00:43:22,079 --> 00:43:23,760 in Florida and not be subject to a personal income tax there, but like 653 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:28,480 you're gonna have to pay the tax rates of other states for when you actually 654 00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:32,800 were working inside that state and traveling for games. That's super complex, But 655 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,960 overall, I would argue that the most favorable teams would then be the Memphis 656 00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,480 Grizzlies, and then there's the Houston Rockets, the Dallas Mavericks, the San 657 00:43:42,480 --> 00:43:45,239 Antonio Spurs, the Orlando Magic, and the Miami Heat would be the most 658 00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:49,960 favorable teams just from a raw when you're looking at income taxes, if you 659 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,639 want to come out ahead in that least favorable it's I mean California teams, 660 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:59,360 the New York teams, like those have the highest income tax rates I believe 661 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:05,039 of any other NBA market, So like those would be the least favorable ones. 662 00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:07,840 Especially I mean you're looking at living expenses of most places, Yeah, 663 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,079 if you play in Sacramento, you could live in some really nice like you 664 00:44:10,079 --> 00:44:14,119 could, Like Sacramento is not going to be as expensive to live in as 665 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,840 Los Angeles, so to speak, or San Francisco if you want to live 666 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:21,039 around there, or New York City. But like those are just going to 667 00:44:21,079 --> 00:44:23,320 be the teams financially. That's I think the difference though is negligible enough. 668 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:27,280 And these guys are making so much money, and you when you're talking about 669 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,800 it, at one in a lot of guys cases, if you're making the 670 00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:34,239 mid level, you might not really have your pickup market. Now if you're 671 00:44:34,239 --> 00:44:36,920 a superstar, you have your pickup market, and you're also getting in other 672 00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:43,320 endorsement deals, and so you would rather prioritize the convenience and location over them 673 00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,639 will like my tax trate's going to be different, and so like I think 674 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:50,239 people could argue, there's you know, the Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, 675 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,840 Miami, even Orlando. I feel like should be a bigger destination among 676 00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,440 players than it is that they offer like sort of the best of both worlds 677 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,800 there. I mean, maybe is it or like a situation where you know, 678 00:45:00,840 --> 00:45:05,039 this might appeal to players if it's Utah just because of the proximity to 679 00:45:05,079 --> 00:45:08,119 California and Vegas or Phoenix because of the proximity to California in Vegas and you're 680 00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:13,079 not dealing with the same tax racer or living expenses. So if we were 681 00:45:13,079 --> 00:45:17,000 taking all that sort of into account, I still think if I had to 682 00:45:17,039 --> 00:45:21,320 pick, I think up Miami still comes out ahead. But when you're trying 683 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:24,639 to factor in cost of living in addition to the income taxes, I think 684 00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:29,280 like it might be the Suns. Like is that is that the answer here? 685 00:45:30,159 --> 00:45:32,360 Very interesting question, and I've always wondered how much that actually factors into 686 00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,440 player decision making. Maybe it actually does factor And if you're a mid level 687 00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:39,320 player more and you have multiple mid level offers. But let's say the roles 688 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:44,039 are equal, the teams are equal, the contracts are equal. But it's 689 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,000 like I could be in Phoenix or like, do I want to be with 690 00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:49,559 the Knicks or the Late Like no, maybe I'll just go to Phoenix and 691 00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:52,480 save like more money in net when it comes to taxes and living expenses. 692 00:45:52,559 --> 00:46:00,800 That's I'd be curious to see which players that factors into the most. I 693 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,840 have time for one more question here. Ooh yeah, love this one. 694 00:46:06,199 --> 00:46:08,119 Shout out to Cosmic Raccoon, one of my favorite discord handles, by the 695 00:46:08,159 --> 00:46:13,199 way, twofold question, Jalen Green will probably lose his starting spot in Houston 696 00:46:13,199 --> 00:46:15,599 before the end of this season. I don't know. Let's see if the 697 00:46:15,679 --> 00:46:19,639 Rockets are healthy enough Cosmic Raccoon, and I anticipate that will be the prelude 698 00:46:19,679 --> 00:46:22,480 to him being traded in the off season. So two questions, what is 699 00:46:22,519 --> 00:46:25,400 the trade value of Jalen Green this offseason assuming he's made into a bench player 700 00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:30,039 for the Rockets after the All Star break as expected? And two, what 701 00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,880 would be a team you'd think should take a flyer on trying to salvage him. 702 00:46:34,159 --> 00:46:37,639 So looking at the trade value of jahn Green, I honestly, I 703 00:46:37,639 --> 00:46:40,360 don't want to say have no idea, but it's I would argue it's going 704 00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:45,400 to be lower than you think because he's extension eligible this offseason, and so 705 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,159 you're giving up value to get him, knowing that one he's still an unproven, 706 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,119 if not a distressed asset at this point, and two you have to 707 00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:57,440 turn around and pay him. And so we talk about this when it comes 708 00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,400 to player veteran free agencies, who while there's a risk there, there's also 709 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:06,920 factoring in his next contract into the equation. Jail and Gren, Jalen Green 710 00:47:07,039 --> 00:47:09,719 being less than a known commodity, though, makes it even harder to evaluate 711 00:47:09,800 --> 00:47:15,159 him in that context. I would say, I guess the best way to 712 00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:19,199 frame it before getting into like what would you give up for him? Is 713 00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:23,800 that had you aught like, could you have gotten ogn Andob for jail and 714 00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:28,360 Green? Like, would the Raptors have preferred R. J. Barrett and 715 00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:31,719 a manual quickly just in a vacuum or jail and Green for the og Annobi 716 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:36,920 trade. I think they would have gone the RJ. Barrett a manual quickly 717 00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:39,440 route. And that's what quickly is extension eligeable or was extenionological. He's going 718 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:43,800 to be a restricted free agent this summer, so you're dealing with his forthcoming 719 00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:47,199 pay day as well. I think it would be reasonable to expect in a 720 00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:52,880 vacuum if there was a team that was willing to trade a lottery pick that 721 00:47:53,079 --> 00:47:57,960 wasn't like I mean this this draft is so I mean, but that would 722 00:47:57,960 --> 00:48:02,280 be honestly, that would be part of though the Jailen Green that'd before the 723 00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:07,079 Jalen Green trade value because of this draft, because the quality of players up 724 00:48:07,119 --> 00:48:09,840 and down it with that impact the level of draft pick that you would give 725 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:14,599 up to where, Okay, you're not getting a top five pick for Jalen 726 00:48:14,599 --> 00:48:17,440 Green. I don't even think you would get a top ten pick for him, 727 00:48:17,639 --> 00:48:22,440 Like I guess, like our team's just very low on a Terren Shannon 728 00:48:22,559 --> 00:48:25,360 or a Reed Shepherd and it's just blah. So could you go that route? 729 00:48:25,639 --> 00:48:30,440 I think you could get a lottery pick between nine and fourteen and then 730 00:48:30,519 --> 00:48:36,559 maybe like that as a top end asset or the prospect equivalent, and then 731 00:48:36,639 --> 00:48:38,719 one additional just like, oh we threw this first round pick or this first 732 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:44,960 round type of prospect in I don't think Jalen Green is on the level of 733 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:52,000 like I think a manual Quickly honestly at the time, probably had more trade 734 00:48:52,039 --> 00:48:55,320 value then than Jalen Green does now. And because we know that ammanual Quickly 735 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,800 and know some people have been unimpressed with his defense, He's a really good 736 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:01,960 off ball defender and he can have a grace Greens really well, and there's 737 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:06,119 been more of an even keelness in net to his body of work on the 738 00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:08,639 offensive end. Even though he struggled in the playoffs last year, he's also 739 00:49:08,679 --> 00:49:13,159 shown that he can adapt alongside other ball handlers, whereas like Jalen Green struggle 740 00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:15,320 with that a little bit in Hute, a little bit, a lot of 741 00:49:15,360 --> 00:49:17,280 it in Houston this year. And if you're gonna bill him as a bench 742 00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:21,239 player, whereas like a manual, quickly it's oh, he's on the bench 743 00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:22,679 and should be a starter. If you're doing the reverse with Jalen Green, 744 00:49:23,039 --> 00:49:28,800 it's going to dilute his value. And so the look these two questions are 745 00:49:28,840 --> 00:49:32,320 intertwined. I think what's also very complicated is the teams that I think should 746 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:36,599 be taking a shot at Jalen Green are not the teams that are gonna give 747 00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,920 up the value for Jalen Green that we're placing on it. I mean, 748 00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,840 yes, maybe there's just like you know, if the Spur let's say the 749 00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:49,360 Spurs as an example, end up with the ninth pick, the twelfth pick 750 00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,840 from the Raptors, which that would be the Raptors went on a hell of 751 00:49:52,880 --> 00:49:58,280 a went on a hell of a like a a second season, second stretch 752 00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:01,840 or stretch run streak. If they end up with, you know, the 753 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:07,159 top eighteen record. But if you're the Spurs, you're rebuilding, but you 754 00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:08,440 want Jalen Green, you have the twelve pick, and you still have your 755 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,360 own pick, and there's you have other first round picks coming down the pipeline. 756 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,559 Would you give up that asset for Jalen Green? Maybe if you're lets 757 00:50:15,559 --> 00:50:19,800 you the Wizard, certainly, Yeah, you give up the twenty twenty four 758 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:24,800 like second least favorable pick from OKC Houston LAC that you have in your back 759 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,159 pocket. But is that enough to get Jalen Green? The types of teams 760 00:50:29,159 --> 00:50:31,760 that should maybe take flyers on him, you're not going to get their top 761 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:36,199 of the line assets out of them. And so this feels very much like 762 00:50:36,199 --> 00:50:39,639 a scenario where it's is Jalen Green either a throw into a very large not 763 00:50:39,679 --> 00:50:43,599 a throw in, but he's attached to other first round picks to get the 764 00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:47,719 Rockets a star. Or if you're trading Jalen Green independently, is it like 765 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:52,920 a three team scenario or are you selling low? And it feels like if 766 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:57,360 you're trading him independently, you're almost selling low. I don't know what, 767 00:50:57,440 --> 00:51:00,840 like, what is the three team independent scenario that mean getting a rotation player 768 00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:04,920 who's not a star that would still amount to selling low. Whereas I think 769 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,440 if you're trading him as part of a larger deal, you build either oh 770 00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:10,960 look the nets Mchael Bridges as an example, you're getting Jailen Green some of 771 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:15,320 your own first and swaps back. Oh that matters in net combined in the 772 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:21,960 aggregate. Or it's a scenario where well, we want who might become available 773 00:51:21,960 --> 00:51:23,159 this summer. I don't even want to throw a name out there, but 774 00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:28,679 we want Oh my god, why I need a good trade? Can we 775 00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,679 want Zion Williams in, but the Pelicans just don't want Jalen Williams. And 776 00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:37,440 it's there's a third team that's coming in, and so they're going to give 777 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,519 the Pelicans value for Jalen Green. So that Jalen Green can we move to 778 00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,559 them as part of that value like that, That is a scenario you could 779 00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:49,400 see unfolding. But I think he's actually most likely to be moved as part 780 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,360 of this Macro straight up deal, or it's his next team. We'll find 781 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:58,239 a third party facilitator to come and get him to where they're okay selling low. 782 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:00,079 That's what I was getting. I'm sorry stumbled through that. I was 783 00:52:00,119 --> 00:52:04,159 confusing myself with that scenario. Whereas if you're trading jail In Green is part 784 00:52:04,159 --> 00:52:07,920 of a star an inbound star package. You're sending him to a team that 785 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,280 maybe they could use him because they're clearly pivoting, but maybe they don't want 786 00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:15,599 to deal with his next contract. He's not their guy, but they could 787 00:52:15,599 --> 00:52:20,880 still get Maybe it's two lower level first for him, and they're willing to 788 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:28,320 accept that. I think I would place his value at one okay first round 789 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:35,159 pick or prospect and then maybe another like bottom ten first round pick or the 790 00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:38,360 equivalent in prospect form. The upside is still there when you look at his 791 00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:42,440 ability to create shots, his athleticism, the hope that he can kind of 792 00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:46,079 turn into this just like the hybrid between of Devin Booker and Zack Lavine feels 793 00:52:46,119 --> 00:52:49,559 like that ship is saled, but skewing towards one of them. Where do 794 00:52:49,559 --> 00:52:52,320 you get Devin Booker's passing feel or feel for taking the right shots or you 795 00:52:52,360 --> 00:52:58,800 just get Zack Lvine's shooting and raw explosion and ability to play off others. 796 00:52:58,519 --> 00:53:01,719 There's hope for him there and if you're a team to buy into that, 797 00:53:01,960 --> 00:53:05,719 but it's just like now you run into Let's talk about the teams that should 798 00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:08,039 go after Jalen Green. We know Detroit was interested in zach Lvin. Does 799 00:53:08,079 --> 00:53:12,159 that also mean that they should be interested in Jalen Green? Maybe, but 800 00:53:12,199 --> 00:53:15,440 because zach Lavine when healthy is more of a proven commodity, you're not good 801 00:53:15,519 --> 00:53:17,800 Like, would the Pistons have been willing to give up one of their own 802 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,559 future first for zack Lavine? I have no idea. Would you've looked at 803 00:53:21,599 --> 00:53:23,440 giving up je and Ivy for zack Lavine? Again, I wouldn't have. 804 00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:28,039 I have no idea. Though you're certainly not getting that for Jalen Green from 805 00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,760 that team. It's even the Wizards, Yeah, they'll trade you wanted like 806 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:32,360 that lower level first round pick that they now have, but you're not gonna 807 00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:37,960 get Bala Cool Bali, you're not gonna get You're not gonna get any of 808 00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:42,719 Washington's own future picks unless they're like they'll be like protected until Kingdom come. 809 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,920 They might never convey. And so now you need to get in an instance 810 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,760 of well, can we spot any teams that because like even Toronto, he'd 811 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,239 be very interesting in Toronto. But it's like Toronto really shouldn't be giving away 812 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,800 any of their own future first. At this point, they already have one 813 00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,400 leave it in the Spurs without knowing how good they are, you could protect 814 00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:04,039 it if you want a Toronto twenty twenty six first round pick, but they're 815 00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,000 going to lottery protect it. Does that do it for you? They're a 816 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,719 team though that I would at least, you know, investigate Washington Ruddy as 817 00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:13,880 Jordan Poole. But jayhen Green is exponentially better, So there would be a 818 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,400 team that could I wouldn't mind him taking a flyer there. I can just 819 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:21,599 see if the cost was low enough and like, and they do kind of 820 00:54:21,599 --> 00:54:23,119 need I've said it, like someone else who can give you some jiggle and 821 00:54:23,159 --> 00:54:27,239 joggle on the ball and addition to spacing the floor and playing off others. 822 00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,360 Like if okay, see just came in with like two or three whatever first 823 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,159 round picks and took the flyer on Jaalen Green, maybe it's a part of 824 00:54:32,199 --> 00:54:37,400 getting out of the Josh Giddy experience. It would be very out of character, 825 00:54:37,519 --> 00:54:40,559 but I mean him within that defensive ecosystem and then you're all of a 826 00:54:40,599 --> 00:54:44,960 sudden the third option. How do you adjust to that? It's not an 827 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,679 Oklahoma City Thunder move. It's not a Spurs move either. They're a team 828 00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:52,960 that could maybe use the flyer on him. I don't know why I'm like 829 00:54:53,079 --> 00:54:57,280 warming up to the idea of seeing him in Detroit. As we're sort of 830 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,239 having this conversation, I feel like I need to maybe get off off of 831 00:55:00,280 --> 00:55:05,119 that. But like, so, what do we have? We have Detroit, 832 00:55:05,679 --> 00:55:07,679 we have Washington. I think that like a most in Toronto, I 833 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:12,400 just don't know what they'd be willing to give up to get him. I 834 00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:17,719 like, Utah, no, not really the Pelicans unless they're making a wholesale 835 00:55:17,719 --> 00:55:22,800 shift away from cjbi's eye on, they don't make a ton of sense either. 836 00:55:22,119 --> 00:55:25,320 The Nets will be a team that that should definitely investigate this, Like, 837 00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:29,920 you've already fired your coach, what's going on with Sean Marks. I 838 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:31,199 know that you have picks committed to Houston, but hey, maybe you get 839 00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:35,000 Jalen Green some of your own picks back, and you're sending mcl bridges out, 840 00:55:35,039 --> 00:55:39,320 and you do need like another capslock shot creator or you need a capslock 841 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:45,880 shot creator. And Jalen Green profiles is that like if you extrapolate his ninetieth 842 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,719 percentile outcome, he profiles that more than even a Michale Bridges. At the 843 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:54,199 moment, there's some overlap with Cam Thomas. But Jalen Green I trust him 844 00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:58,320 more kind of at the different levels, like the peak version of him, 845 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:00,760 and he will be a better a better playmaker. I think you could also 846 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,360 argue that he's a better defender there as well. You know what'd be an 847 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,719 interesting team And it was just part of like, oh, things haven't gone 848 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:13,840 according to plan. This might really fuck with our defense more than we wanted 849 00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,559 to. But if the Rockets are looking to get older, so like some 850 00:56:16,599 --> 00:56:21,119 sort of other salaries need to be involved. But depending on what happens this 851 00:56:21,199 --> 00:56:23,920 year with the Bucks and Chris Middleton, Like do you kind of look at 852 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:27,159 that and like, oh, we kind of want like another scorer here. 853 00:56:27,239 --> 00:56:30,400 I guess Joannison Dame with Jalen Green that makes that redundant, so perhaps not 854 00:56:30,840 --> 00:56:34,360 kind of think of like contending teams that might come in and be like, 855 00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,199 hey, we'll give you the first round. I could see Miami trying it. 856 00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:39,679 They already have Tyler Hero. But are you maybe making it as part 857 00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:43,559 of a separate deal or are you just like, hey, we just need 858 00:56:43,599 --> 00:56:45,280 another like capsock scorer in here. We already have Terry Rozier, so you're 859 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:51,320 not gonna keep Hero Rosie or Butler and Jalen Green. If Jimmy Butler requests 860 00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:52,480 a trade after this season because you play out of the playoffs, that might 861 00:56:52,480 --> 00:56:57,559 be a team that gets super interesting with Jalen Green. I could see Charlotte. 862 00:56:57,719 --> 00:57:00,039 I don't hate the idea of him LaMelo and Brandon Miller. I just 863 00:57:00,079 --> 00:57:04,159 don't know what you're getting for. I'm not trading Brandon Miller. I trade 864 00:57:04,159 --> 00:57:06,360 Mark Williams, but I don't know why Houston would want him. You're not 865 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,519 gonna give up your first round pick, which is gonna be so high. 866 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,880 So that's where it gets super difficult. Wouldn't you even in Minnesota. I 867 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,440 just don't know what you're giving up in that instance, Like I'm not giving 868 00:57:19,519 --> 00:57:22,400 up Jade McDaniels for Jail and Green like that value. Maybe I'm lower on 869 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:24,920 jail and Green. Cosmic Raccoon or Rockets fans, anyone listening to this could 870 00:57:24,960 --> 00:57:29,079 let me know. Maybe I'm lower on jail and Green long term than the 871 00:57:29,119 --> 00:57:31,559 consensus. But when you look at the year he's had his contract situation, 872 00:57:32,079 --> 00:57:36,719 I do think you'd be lucky to get the equivalent of like two real first 873 00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:38,559 round picks for him and by real I mean, like not even just bottom 874 00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:43,119 five once and so could you get a lottery pick and then something else for 875 00:57:43,239 --> 00:57:45,360 him? And I'm used, and I might consider going that route if you 876 00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:49,719 believe that it's really going to benefit your ecosystem, and you could then repackage 877 00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,800 those assets to go somewhere else. So if I had to pick favorite destinations, 878 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:59,559 and I'm gonna like, there's a level of if we're just throwing trade 879 00:57:59,559 --> 00:58:02,440 assets out the window, I like Toronto and Brooklyn the most. Brooklyn might 880 00:58:02,480 --> 00:58:07,000 feel the most realistic because of just the setup with the trade assets where they 881 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,880 have McHale bridges and jail and green plus other stuff from mckel Bridges continues to 882 00:58:10,880 --> 00:58:14,719 make a lot of sense. Would the Bulls make sense if they want to 883 00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:17,360 move on from Zack Lavine and Demarta Rosen's gonna leave in free agency, that 884 00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:21,119 could be something to look at just to take a flyer. What do you 885 00:58:21,119 --> 00:58:22,760 give up for him them? I don't know. Does Houston want Zacklavine? 886 00:58:23,159 --> 00:58:27,840 I mean their devnsive slipped, But that's because I mean, by the way, 887 00:58:28,199 --> 00:58:30,599 what's going on with the tarry east and lower left leg injury. There's 888 00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:32,840 been he's missed a ton of time. Hasn't played since January first. We've 889 00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:36,199 seen the defense slip since he's been out, and they've dealt with other injuries, 890 00:58:36,239 --> 00:58:39,159 including the Fred Van Fleet. Something's weird just going on. We even 891 00:58:39,159 --> 00:58:44,559 had Ima Udoka said that he what was the word he use, fabricated the 892 00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:46,400 amount of pain he was in. Uh, players will do that. I'm 893 00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:51,440 hoping that the Rockets have a better understanding of this injury. We know he 894 00:58:51,480 --> 00:58:53,039 had the stress reaction in this leg in the preseason, so he's working his 895 00:58:53,119 --> 00:58:55,559 way from that. I hope they have a better hold on it behind the 896 00:58:55,599 --> 00:59:00,519 scenes than they do front and center. Because public it was he was returning 897 00:59:00,519 --> 00:59:04,519 to practice. I think it was reported like January thirty first or February first, 898 00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:07,320 and then there was a report like the other day that he has not 899 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:09,360 even yet been clear to play. And so now that's three weeks. I'm 900 00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:14,360 recording this more than three weeks after that initial report that he's nearing a return. 901 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:16,039 I wanted to come back. He's a really fun player to watch and 902 00:59:16,079 --> 00:59:22,159 super valuable about what the Rockets do. Digressing on that, but John Green 903 00:59:22,199 --> 00:59:27,400 and Orlando as sort of just like fitting their timeline doesn't make as much as 904 00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:30,679 Anthony Simon's just yet they have the defensive ecosystem to insulate him. They could 905 00:59:30,880 --> 00:59:36,159 actually kind of stand for him to freelance, like maybe where the Rockets want 906 00:59:36,199 --> 00:59:38,159 him to be a little bit more structured. They could probably Orlando could probably 907 00:59:38,239 --> 00:59:43,400 use his freelancing. I don't need Orlando. I like Orlando and Brooklyn might 908 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,199 be my kind of favorites here. And if there was just like a really 909 00:59:45,239 --> 00:59:50,679 outside the box one, sign me up, like can Okase just reboot his 910 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,760 value with Jyn Williams, Shake Gulers, Alexander and Chet Holmgren, and then 911 00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:57,199 you also you can play jale and Green with Casey Wallace. I don't care. 912 00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,599 Or lou Dort? Would you give up lou Dort for Jalhn Williams in 913 01:00:00,639 --> 01:00:04,480 a vacuum? Like could you even get lou Dort for Jalhn Williams Right now, 914 01:00:04,519 --> 01:00:06,679 I'm not in a vacuum. I'm not saying the Thunder would do that. 915 01:00:07,119 --> 01:00:07,679 I don't know. I don't know. You have to let me know 916 01:00:07,679 --> 01:00:10,400 if you'd like any other I know the Kings were looking for another shot creator, 917 01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:14,360 and I guess if do they get bored that trade? If Malik Monk 918 01:00:14,440 --> 01:00:16,960 leaves in free agency. I don't know. I don't love it. The 919 01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:21,360 Grizzlies don't need him. The Blazers certainly don't need him if they're gonna hang 920 01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:23,679 on to Simons and they have Sharp and Scoot. He's just not a Spurs 921 01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:28,239 player, even though they could probably use if he was more of a facilitator. 922 01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,960 He'd be interesting if Minnesota could get him. I mean, they're gonna 923 01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:38,360 have a pick in theory as a player to trade this year, and like, 924 01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:44,079 if you could get him for that and nas Red, do you consider 925 01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:46,719 it? Probably not. They didn't want Timberwols. Fans were mad at me 926 01:00:46,760 --> 01:00:52,960 because I proposed nas Reid and Salary to get Malcolm Rockden. They didn't like 927 01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:57,119 that. So maybe you're not going that much, like is Houston sending out 928 01:00:57,119 --> 01:01:00,400 something a little? But he could be interesting in Minnesota, just as like 929 01:01:00,400 --> 01:01:02,000 they need someone who can get in there get up threes. I think they 930 01:01:02,039 --> 01:01:06,480 could use another like perimeter shot creator. He's just not good enough. I 931 01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:07,360 think to say, hey, nas Read might be my six man of the 932 01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:10,480 year right now, so I get like plus a first round pick. But 933 01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:14,239 like that might be the type of package where if it was just trading Jail 934 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,599 and Green independently. That might be the best you could do is did we 935 01:01:16,679 --> 01:01:20,599 get lou Dort? Did we get nas in a first and we also had 936 01:01:20,599 --> 01:01:22,800 to send out something in addition to Jail and Green. I think that's where 937 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,360 I'm at when you look at kind of his contract situation, and the Wolves 938 01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:29,519 aren't gonna do that because they're giving away two cost controlled assets for someone who's 939 01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:31,800 about to make probably more of a boatload of money. I'd really like to 940 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:36,599 see him in Toronto if trade assets weren't an issue. I think Brooklyn feels 941 01:01:36,639 --> 01:01:39,480 more realistic. There. Hope you that answers your question. Cosmic Raccoon, 942 01:01:39,679 --> 01:01:43,119 This was a fun mini moderate mail bag. We'll have to get to a 943 01:01:43,159 --> 01:01:45,920 point where we do a larger one, maybe Grant and I if we can 944 01:01:45,960 --> 01:01:47,480 get enough questions and I'm okay going to twitter of points, but if we 945 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:52,360 can get enough questions to do Eastern and Western conference ones, we'll split him 946 01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:53,880 up, maybe week by week or do two in a week, like let's 947 01:01:53,880 --> 01:01:59,480 tackle questions for every team. You could throw those mailbag questions to us if 948 01:01:59,519 --> 01:02:01,920 you have a question specific to a player or team and we could sort them. 949 01:02:02,559 --> 01:02:06,360 Email hardware knocks at gmail dot com. You can get at us in 950 01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:08,239 discord, join our discord, follow us on the socials. Those are in 951 01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:13,400 the podcast and YouTube descriptions. Please sub if you haven't already, hit the 952 01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:16,159 sub on YouTube like subscribe, tell people about us. We really could use 953 01:02:16,199 --> 01:02:21,000 some ratings and reviews on Apple and Spotify to help drive us up the charts. 954 01:02:21,000 --> 01:02:22,400 Those help us out, I think more than a lot of people know. 955 01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:25,199 I appreciate the support for every single one of you. As always, 956 01:02:25,559 --> 01:02:29,119 and until next time, I leave with the shout out to the one, 957 01:02:29,519 --> 01:02:34,199 the only, the indelible, the legendary, the one who does have more 958 01:02:34,199 --> 01:02:37,519 trade value than Jalen Green, even though he's not currently on an NBA team, Frank Helo