What is Jack lackin fell If you're a effort, I mm BALI coming yet
you with my certified vantabulous co host, mister Grant Hughes. But we are
also joined by frequent guest reluctant friend of the podcast, Greg Whistlinger. He
is the editor in chief of The King's Harold. They do no isn't that
what your role is? Just an editor, managing editor, managing the editor.
I apologize, managing editor of The King's Harold. They have a tasta
content over there, so go check them out. Follow him on what we
still call Twitter at g whist that's at g W I s s Greg,
I mean both of you, but we'll ask Greg first because he's the guest.
Grant, Greg, how are you? How are you doing? Aside
for me, I guess giving you a promotion at least, I prefer to
think that we we usurped my editor in chief, and I'm just going to
run with it until he corrects me. But yeah, I'm doing great.
Happy that we're just around the corner. You kind of we got through August,
like we're finally getting into like getting close to training camp and like actual
basketball conversations and not just arguing over the lamest things that we can think of
an August hashtag World Champions exactly. Oh my god, Grant, how are
you doing. I'm great. You just triggered me with that World Champions thing,
though, so I'm gonna try to come down before we would get into
the King's discussion today. I'm doing well, thank you. I'm really excited
to do this look ahead because, as I mentioned before we start recording this,
we received a lot of hate when we were talking about the Sacrimental Kings
in our Pacific Division section of the off season grades people, some of which
I responded with like niceties and they were cordial getting back, but a lot
of people said the unsubscribed to our YouTube channel or podcast feed. It was
impressive that we had that many Kings fan subscribed in the first place, I
think, so I was very thankful, grateful that they were there in the
first place. Greg, I am just curious, what are your Before we
even get into the meat and potatoes of the certain move that dot Grant and
I in the most trouble, we were just your general impressions, takeaways thoughts
about Sacramento's offseason. I mean, like I can understand I mean, even
among some Kings fans, there's kind of consternation about the way that they went
about their off season and you know, the lack of a huge, on
paper, splashy move, right, but I think that there is some value
to continuity. They didn't lose any key rotation pieces. You know. They
last year was really year one for this the majority of this core, and
they get to build on that. You know, they had a surprisingly successful
season, but now they can kind of take a step further. They did
make some adjustments around the edges, you know, kind of adjustments to the
bench unit, and they also removed one of the biggest question marks that would
have hung over the entire season by extending Sabonis to a slightly below MAX extension
rather than having his lingering unrestricted free agency hanging out there. And overall,
like, yeah, would have been cool if there was a big splashing move.
Of course, I'm a fan. I write about the team. I
love big splashing moves, you know, like that's the bread and butter,
that's what's fun to talk about. But I am happy with the offseason overall.
You know, it's not flashy, but I think it has taken a
little more criticism than is probably warranted. I was gonna say specifically by you,
Dan, Yes, I think I was probably harder. I think if
the criticism was that they should have done something bigger, if that's what the
criticism has really anchored in, I understand that because what was out there for
them to do. We could talk about all the free agents they could have
used their tap space on, like they weren't getting those guys. This wasn't
under pressive free agency class, and so there's value and just continuity for sure.
I actually don't ding them for that, and I don't know where Grant
lands on it. I was just the sabonus extent renegotiate and extend and the
mode of operations that went into it by based off what they did, they
kind of needed to use a first round pick to get off for Sean Holmes
and to have enough money to not just renegotiate an extent SI bonus, but
to do everything else that they did, keep Harrison Barnes, bring over ver
Zenkov. And so I'm just like the renegotiate an extent, where do you
I know you just said it took it took it away, that it took
away the biggest storyline heading into this season, would he stay, would he
leave? Whatever? Where do you sort of land on it looking at the
number itself, but more so to me, the fact the opportunity cost of
what it was to renegotiate an extent sa bonis sure. So yeah, the
first thing I always go back to is when the King's traded for Sabonus,
Right, the big criticisms were, Okay, he's got just over a year
or just over two years left on his deal. You know that season was
pretty much over, so it's basically okay, he's got two years left on
his deal, and then he's an unrestricted free agent. So you've given up
Palaburton and team control and all of this to get this guy who, yeah,
he's a good player, but is he good enough to actually make your
team good? Is he going to stay there long term? And in just
over a year, we've moved the goalpost to where, okay, well,
they broke the playoff route in his first full season, they were the three
seed in the West, Like, they really maximized a team built around him
in Fox and then they also managed to keep him long term. So like
all the criticisms that were there, a year and a half ago, are
now kind of ignored, and you've got a really good player. He's twenty
seven years old, he's a three time All Star, he was just all
NBA like and he is the thing that drives their offense like he is what
makes it work on a night and out basis. And I think that a
lot of the question mark about you know the amount of money or you know
the cost to make it all happen. I think some of that's also tied
into recency bias and kind of the way that the Warrior series went, which
was a really bad series, and I'm sure we'll kind of dive into that
a little bit as well. But overall, he is so valuable to what
the Kings do that having that locked in, having that security, I think
is worthwhile. And yeah, it did cost him something to move off of
Rashawn Holmes. The flip size, you could almost I mean, I don't
know if it's better or worse, but you could also look at it is
okay, well maybe that was the money for Harrison Barnes, or that was
the money for Zen. I mean, it's really that that move opened up
the money for them to have options, and I don't know if they were
necessarily at the time of that move saying that this is the money to you
know, bump up and then extends the bonus. I think that it was
okay, this gives us the flexibility to to X, Y and Z in
the off season, and worst case scenario, we just lock up our really
great center and we know that. I mean, there were reports of other
moves that they were looking to make and other things that they tried to do.
There was a lot of smoke around them trying to trade for o Gianna
Nuby and said there's I think that they went in with a lot of flexibility
and this is what they settled on. And if this is your backup plan,
that's great. I don't know, this might have been their first plan,
hold on, who knows, But I think that there's worse things than
you know, taking care of your guys, taking care of your core And
if they looked at what was available at twenty four and weren't in love with
any of those guys, like why not move off and free up the space,
because I mean they've been trying to move off homes for basically a year
at this point, and the cost to move off and was pretty much always
going to be a first, and a first is it's least valuable, and
you're on the board and you know exactly what's there and you don't like it,
so why not? So I think I can't argue with anything you said,
Greg, And I think as I've thought about the off season and Dan
and Dan's and my take on it, and how that has differed so much
from certainly the local take, I think, let me try this on you,
because you talked about the goalpost moving, and I'm curious. I think
this is really the root of it. I think Dan and I, you
know, trying to take a national perspective default to evaluating teams moves on a
scale that is probably two one size fits all, which is to say that
like did you increase your did you Daryl Morey this? Did you increase your
championship equity? Right? Like? Does the Sabonus move better position this team
to win a time? You know? And You're and the thing I think
that I certainly I'll just speak for myself because I don't I can't speak for
Dan on this, but we're sort of aligned. I think the mistake that
I may be making or the reason that my evaluation of the Kings and the
Sabonis move comes off harshly is I'm not evaluating the team or their off season
through the same prison. The goalposts, like you said, for almost twenty
years, were make the goddamn playoffs, and they did that right, And
so in talking anecdotally to some friends, I would say, if they did
the exact same thing in twenty three, twenty four, they make the playoffs,
they're out in the first round, are you happy? Every single person
I talked to said, yeah, absolutely, no question. If they win
forty four to forty eight or fifty games whatever and they make the playoffs,
this is great. And then and the follow up is, well, how
long would you be okay with that? And the windows pretty wide, like
three four years of that would be okay. And I think I'm discounting that
in like being harsh on some of the moves they've made and didn't make.
Does that resonate with you that is that too broad of a brush to paint
the fan base with, because I think it's important to remember that, especially
for this franchise, making the playoffs was a big deal and just having a
team you could follow beyond like January, to be honest, like was a
big deal. And it's hard, it's hard to overstate that. So take
that wherever you want to. Am I making up this like unfair stance or
you know what I mean? Like what do the Kings fans that you talk
to feel that way? And is that part of the evaluative process from that
side of things? So I think that the fan base is definitely I mean,
obviously not all. There's definitely always going to be some people that you
know, want more and want more, and and you know, when we
talked about moving goalposts, there were Kings fans during last season that we're kind
of moving the owner their own internal goal post, and you know, getting
upset about things, and we're like, look a and like what are we
upset about? Look at this? This is amazing. You know, I
haven't even fired a coach yet. Yeah, And I do think that,
you know, if they did the same thing, and I'm kind of where
I'm at, just kind of tentatively going into the season, is you know,
I think that the King's probably went a few more games than they did
last year, probably end up a little bit lower seed, just because last
year was such a weird year with the seedings and rankings and all that like,
so yeah, like I don't expect them to be a title contender this
year. I also don't think that anyone available at twenty four. And you
know, history has shown us that I could be completely wrong on this,
but just looking at the board at that time, there's no one that jumps
out at twenty four like Man that was the piece that was going to put
him into title contention. So it's like, I get where people come from
with quibbling over giving up an asset and you discounting the value of a first
round pick, because they are valuable and there's things you can do with them.
But one of the things you can do with them is unload a bad
contract, and that's the way they chose to use it. And that does
give them flexibility now where they don't have to go into next offseason worried about
preserving money for sabonas so they can make trades this season up to the deadline
that maybe they couldn't have made before because they needed to be focused on the
cap and the unknown of Sabonis and what they're going to do there. So
you know, for this year, yeah, I don't know that it made
a much more of a title contender than they were before, But I also
don't know that there was a move that was realistically out there for the Kings
that did that. Anyway, now they've also talked about you know, they
kept all their pieces, and you look at their roster. They really don't
have a horrible contract right now. Now, things always change. You guys
get hurt, or guys decline or whatever like, so it's all unknown.
Some of those contracts could look bad in a year or two, but right
now, none of their contracts look bad. They're all very movable deals.
There are a variety of different sizes, so they're very easy to kind of
mix a match. So if a big trade does come available, they still
have the flexibility to do something more as well. They haven't locked themselves into
where they have no maneuverability going forward. I think this thing I struggle with
and I definitely did not think of it through the lens of Okay, they
made that pick to clear up additional space, had other plans, and the
renegotiating extent was their backup plan, And so when you kind of view it
through that lens, it does make a lot more sense. To me,
a lot of the pushback we got and I can't even cite them specifically excited
to turn off like mute that conversation. It just got so bad after we
put it out. Was that the Kings needed to do this because it made
it easier to retain Malik Monk next summer, in part because anyone who was
talking about the raw spending like they have his really bird rights. They could
have kept him, but you sort of mentioned it with okay, having this
a bonus number for next year allows them to kind of plan and move forward.
I wasn't looking at it as you know, they missed out on a
move. It was they've made it harder for themselves to me to make that
bigger move that you speak of by going this route, because you always would
have had unless you thought if you thought Sabonus was gone, if you didn't
renegotiate and extend him, that's a different story. I just I struggled to
believe that was the case when looking at the cap space climate next year,
But it's you always would have known basically what the number was going to be,
and you can plan from there. I also don't think you know a
lot of people point out, oh, the Kings are working with a smaller
budget than other people in their division. Division, I honestly just don't care
about that, Like I'm just not going to be a simp or care about
owner's pockets for that, like in fury, like when I'm just judging them.
But the other thing is just like it wouldn't have gotten harder to move
off for Sean Holmes's contract, and now you've kind of removed a prospect from
the chamber, even if you didn't whether it was O Max, whether they
would have won a different route there. That's just like one less asset now
that you can move if you wanted to go out and get an og Ana
nobi. And so I'm more looking at it from not an opportunity missed,
but like opportunities that have yet to arise. I think that's the biggest thing
I struggle with. Again, it's not even just it's not sabonus specifically.
You point it out, you could view it as they moved that to make
other stuff happen. That's just where I'm coming from, especially when you look
at like the structure of the roster right now it is so offense heavy still,
like they kind of just and I see the value in that, but
like they leaned even further in it into that direction this offseason, it feels
like, and so I think that's where I guess my concern slash disappointment kind
of comes in. If they turn around they're able to make a big move
anyway despite this, or if the Bonus makes all NBA again and like you
now you just know you have him locked up whatever, I'll look like a
fool. But I think that that's just where I was coming from looking at
why I was so critical of the Kings this offseason. I will just throw
out there real quick, I'll be shocked if Bonus when gets all NBA again,
now that it's going to positionlessly, Oh yeah, I'm gonna throw out
that like tagline that he made all NBA like shamelessly, but realistically it's probably
not happening again. And if it does, then wow, that's really something
at that point. But Greg, I wonder this is still kind of a
subonus because heavy line of inquiry. But I think he's such a pivotal figure,
not just because of the extension, but because of, as you mentioned,
the way the playoffs ended, which you know came on the tail end
of a phenomenal season just like ridiculously statistically productive. And I do think anyone
that that did not appreciate how much he meant to that offense just wasn't paying
attention. So do you think with Sabonis in the role that he is going
to play for this team that the Kings are quote unquote capping their ceiling?
Like is this something that Sabonis needs to become a different player? You know,
not like, you know, completely change his game, but like let's
get a five threes up a game, or let's work on the lateral mobility,
Like does he need to change to level the Kings up? Or is
that going to happen in some other way? Like and you can take that
any direction too, Like is what's the way that the defense gets better or
what's you know, is it Keegan Murray developing or or does any of that
really matter if Sabonis is essentially the same awesome regular season But I think fairly
obviously imperfect postseason player. And I think that part of the downside in the
playoffs was really that the Warriors were probably one of the worst matchups in the
West for sabonus specifically, and I think some of the way that it has
impacted Sabonis's reputation gets tied into how much we still underrate what Kevin Luney does
because nightmare matchup, Because I mean, Sabonis is a dominant rebounder, and
Looney is one of the guys in the league that can kind of hold his
own and beyond par, especially on offensive rebounds versus Sabonis's tremendous defensive rebounding ability,
like that was a huge huge factor. And you know, just the
way that the Warriors were able to scheme and adjust, you know, between
Looney and Draymond. I mean, it was a nightmare matchup for Sabonis.
I think that in most series, even if you employed the same tactics,
it's not going to work nearly as well as what the Warriors were able to
do. I think that they don't get enough credit in their execution of their
plan. It's more just, well, look how easy it is to guard
Sabonis. You just do this. It's like, no, that's not gonna
work if like Orlando's out there doing it, or you know, like most
other teams, like even other good teams in the West aren't gonna be able
to pull off what happened in that series. As far as the internal growth,
I mean for Sabonis himself, I mean, yeah, it'd be great
if he suddenly developed lateral quickness, but I'm not really holding my breath on
that at this point in his career. I think the most realistic thing that
he could do that you know, was kind of glaringly obvious, is just
be able to without hesitation hit like that fifteen footer or you know, just
if he's doing that in that Warrior series, it's completely different, right,
And there's a million little things that could have shifted that series too, right,
But as far as the internal growth for the Kings, you know,
Sabonis is kind of the motor that gets them eighty percent of the way there.
And this is true in regular season as well. You know, in
games, he's just kind of the workhorse and kind gets them through possession by
possession towards the end of the game, and then Fox takes over down the
stretch. You know, Fox breaking his finger on his shooting hand in that
series. I think there's a very good chance the Kings could have pulled that
out if Fox could shoot the basketball in the last couple of games. So
Fox's continued growth is you know, he took a major leap and it's difficult
to expect yet another major league, but there's still potential for continued growth.
Keega Murray definitely has shown you some of what he did towards down the stretch
of that Warrior series, what he did in Summer League. You know,
you expect a player who was a starting player on a good team to be
good in Summer League, right, but you know, he kind of showed
some abilities that he hadn't demonstrated a lot in his rookie years. So his
continued growth is big. And then you know, improving the depth with a
guy like Zenkov, who I think is a real wild card for him this
season. You know, So it's really the pieces of rounds a bonus that
are going to get better, I dally. And then as far as the
defense goes, you know, all again kind of point to that Warrior series.
They played some really good defenses for some really long stretches, and it's
like, okay, maybe in year two Mike Brown gets them to kind of
buy in and kind of engage in that level a little bit more often in
the regular season, you know, they are probably never going to be a
top fifteen defense by any means, but you know, if they can be
twenty instead of twenty eight, that's a huge, huge difference. And that's
kind of my hope on the defensive end, is that the offensive firepower is
still there just as potent or maybe even better, and the defense is just
a couple of notches better. I mean, I think that's enough to you
know, swing a handful of games right there in any given season or playoff
series. Do you think that was sort of part of this offseason calculus where
I said before it felt like they leaned further into offense where they sort of
looking at you and I discussed this earlier. They had some positive defensive indicators
before that Golden State series. They didn't allow a ton of open jumpers on
the defense ended deep into the shot lock. They're a good defensive rebounding team.
I think when you even start to look at like the breakdowns, they
probably got a little unlucky just looking at opponent shooting from mid range and from
the three point line last year. And so is it part of the calculus
where it's like you just said, we'll never be elite but like, this
is closer to a league average defensive team is currently constructed than a bottom five
or a bottom three defensive team. I don't know if I'd go to our
silly average. I mean, that's tough to see just looking at the current
roster. But but yeah, I mean the hope is continue to be one
of the best, you know, or the best offense in the league,
and hope that the defense improves a little bit, you know, kind of
year over year. And I think that there is opportunity there because there were
you know, we kind of talked about I think we talked about this before
the playoffs. Yeah, the shooting percentage show that maybe they got unlucky with
like opponent three point shooting percentage, But watching all the games, there's also
kind of like reasons why they might have been It's like defensive lapses that lead
a lot more open threes than you know, and just good looks and guys
kind of blown a rotation or whatever because you know, Mike Brown doesn't run
a simple off or a simple defense. You know, you're expected to be
in certain places and do certain things, and thinkings had plenty of guys that
were screwing that up. And they might still be screwing it up in year
two, but the hope is that some of those things are becoming more ingrained
and you have a few less mistakes, you know, each game. And
you know, they also got rid of this offseason a lot of the guys
that were kind of chiefly responsible for a lot of those lapses. Uh,
you know, as met to Tarence Davis. You know, guys that were
productive on the offensive end, but you tended to make big mistakes. You
know, when they played bad, it was really really bad. So they
kind of got rid of some of those kind of key lapses as far as
the roster went. Kind Of speaking of the roster, I think I'm certainly
curious, and I think Dan and I have kind of talked a little bit
about him. What do you think the Zenkov is going to bring to the
team. I mean we have a rough you know, an outline and idea
of what kind of player he is. How much do you think he's gonna
play? Whose minutes is he cutting into if at all? I mean with
Davis gone, maybe nobody is. You know, like, what what do
you think that's gonna look like? And how does he contribute here in ways
that maybe some other guys from last year's team wouldn't have. I mean,
the first thing is he gives them yet another really great shooter. I mean,
we you can't just assume the shooting is going to translate. But what
do he accomplished in near league? I mean, you assume that he'll be
a pretty solid NBA shooter. He's got a quick release, he can,
you know, catch and shoot with no space. And you put a guy
like that with Sabonus. That's a recipe for success that the Kings have shown,
right, So it's just adding yet another shooting weapon, you know.
And I think initially he'll come off the bench. I don't think they're going
to tinker with the starting lineup until they have reason to. But he just
gives them another look, another option. I think it's going to be interesting
to see how they use it. I think that where the solution probably comes
in is we'll see a little bit more of Trey Lyles playing the five than
he did last year because they found some success kind of down the stretch and
even in I think one of the games in the Warrior series. So I
think that that's kind of the solution to it is that, especially when matchups
allow, you're sliding tray Lyles down and so then you've got Zenkov is kind
of the primary backup four. All right, I was gonna ask, looking
at you had mentioned Murray before, is there room for him too? And
we did kind of see it at points last season, but based off what
we saw in Summer League, and I wrote in the outline, it was
like that Desmond Baying year two vibe, whereas like he didn't belong in Summer
League. He was doing so many great things on the ball. Then he
comes in and he just like absolutely a it rates what he did in year
one. Is there room for Keegan Murray to do that inside an offense where
you have some bonus being used the way that he does, and you have
someone in Daron Fox who just was absolutely incredible another all NBA players When clutch
Player of the Year hit like one of the best finishers on drives, hit
thirty seven plus percent of his step back threes. When you're just looking at
how established the two primary options already are on this team offensively, is there
going to be enough runway for Keegan Murray too? I guess hit the top
end percentile of his like best case outcome. I think there is, because
if you really look at the way that the King's played most of the year,
and they talked openly about this, it was kind of no secret that
kind of the first three quarters, a lot of times, you know,
Fox would have some points here and there, but wouldn't be doing a whole
lot, and then he would just kind of take over for the team in
the fourth. But even when he was doing that, he was still keep
an eye for open shooters and kicking the ball out and moving the ball.
It wasn't like he got tunnel vision on it. So there's still gonna be
opportunities there. But you know, those first three quarters, especially, you
know Sabonis he's the engine that drives at all, but it's not that he's
driving at all to get his own points, So you know, he's distributing.
He's hitting guys who are moving, and that was a lot of keyaking
success in year one was moving off of Sabonis screens and things like that.
So I think there's definitely still an opportunity for him to do more. It's
just going to be the situations last year where he catches it and the defenders
too close, so he just moved the ball and kept it moving. Maybe
this year he puts it on the deck every now and then to keep the
defense a little bit more of And honest I think that's kind of the natural
next progression and then hopefully a little bit of improvement on defense if he can
be a better defender. And you know, there's some limitations there. I
don't think he's ever going to be an elite defender or anything, but I
think that there's room for him to grow into more than what he was as
a rookie. Ye that goes a long way towards him as an overall player,
as well as that team defense that we're talking about, and kind of
how do you improve there? You know, Keegan's a place where there could
be some improvement on the margins. How would you evaluate Murray's defense? I
know, I mean being a rookie, he's an older rookie, so everybody
assumes, oh, this guy's see he's still a rookie. So, like
the NBA, adjustment is always incredibly difficult. Would you characterize his shortcomings defensively
as as physical or mental like he's you know, because you would expect the
ladder from from a rookie just to you know, blown assignment or he gets
back cut here, or he you know, chases over the top when he
should and like all those types of things. Were they those types of mistakes
just you know, not asking for stats on it or anything, or do
you think it's he actually is in the right place a lot, it's just
a little bit physically limited in that role, especially if he's gonna be kind
of a wing stopper, assuming Barnes you know, slows a little bit as
he continues to age. Yeah, I think that some of it is that
there are some physical limitation for like he just doesn't have, you know,
that that kind of lateral quickness that the elite defenders have, right, but
I mean there's so few of them. Everybody needs those, yeah, exactly.
But I think some of it was also just you not that he was
in the wrong place, but you know, just not always. You know,
maybe he's just a half beat slow on recognizing what was about to happen
or you know, kind of where to be. And you know, I
think in that normal rookie way, right that you could easily especially for a
player who has shown you know, kind of a good growth path and smart
hard work or all those different things. I mean, he he adjusted.
We saw a lot of growth from him, you know, just over the
course of the last season. So I think that there's definitely again I'm not
expecting him to ever be an elite defender, but I think he can be
a better defender than what he was, and you know, especially like a
better defender than what they have and like Harrison Barnes right now, Yeah,
what is the outlook for davy On Mitchell with this team? Now, there's
like this weird disconnect to me where it feels like he is incredibly important right
now just because of how limited some of their personnel is on the defensive end.
But he's extension eligible, will be a restricted re agent next summer,
and there just doesn't feel like a long term fit with this team. Yeah,
it's kind of a weird spot. And I think that you know,
if you told me that Davion was traded at the deadline, I wouldn't be
shocked. I think that he's one of their more appealing trade assets because you
know, whoever gets him still has team control, especially if there's a team
out there that thinks he could do more in a bigger role. Yeah,
The challenge with him has really been his offense being inconsistent. I mean,
if he had a steady three point shot or Stephen a consistent shot at any
at any level, he'd be incredibly, incredibly valuable and he'd probably see a
lot more minutes playing alongside Daron Fox. But as it is right now,
with his shooting being unreliable, that's it makes it challenging and kind of who
you compare him with what you can do, you know, without impacting the
looks that the defense is going to throw. To know, like, I
still believe in Davien. I do think he's incredibly important and it'd be tough
to lose him just because he is one of the few really good defenders on
the roster. But I think that there's a decent chance that he gets traded
before the deadline. Staying on the topic of defense, I can definitely remember
thinking in Dan, you and I have probably talked about this, I know
I've written about it, you know, in the early Fox years him to
me projecting as a massively disruptive defensive weapon. I just thought that physically athletically,
you know, the way he could jump passing lanes, his length,
his quickness, and maybe you you correct me, but I do feel like
there were there were periods there where it was almost the expectation that this guy,
at least tools wise, was going to be an amazing defensive guard.
And now it's at the point where he's so good that it's almost unf you
know, his importance to the offense is that, like we don't really ask
about why Damian Lillard and why you know, John Morant aren't shutting down everybody
they go up against because they got other things to worry about. And Fox,
I think, is there but do you see him as someone that you
know, is it just a workload thing? Is it? Is it a
why? I guess the short question is why is he not the kind of
you know, dominant defensive piece that you know, his physical ability seems to
suggest he could be. And we actually noticed a big difference last season.
You know, still not you know from Buzz or Buzz are not a great
defender, but especially in fourth quarters, he would really engage and he used
those tools exactly like what we thought he could write. And I think a
big reason we never saw it before was frankly, look at the situation,
he was right like who's going to kill themselves for defense for as bad a
teams as they were, like, But Mike Brown, when he showed up
like he did it like his opening press conference, he called out that Deer
and Fox needed to be a better defender like and he he got Fox to
buy in from day one, and we definitely saw him improve. And that
was a big part of what made the team as a whole better in that
Warrior series was that Fox was engaged a lot more. Now, from a
workload perspective, I don't think it's realistic to expect that, you know,
throughout the course of an eighty two game season, all four quarters or anything
like that. I think he could probably be a little bit better than he
was, you know, especially kind of earlier in games, Like you don't
give up the easy stuff early and you don't have to do the hard stuff
later. But you know, we definitely saw him more engaged and make some
really incredible defensive plays, especially late in games, especially close games, and
then in the playoffs he was playing really good defense a lot of the time.
Definitely room for growth, but I think he's such a huge part of
their offense, especially their fourth quarter offense. That part of it at this
point is just kind of saving him to where he still has something in the
tank for that. Is that like, insofar as there is a next runtier
for him, is that like the next Rountier for him just based off everything
he already doesn't offense? And I would agree, like I think he got
better or at least, yeah, I felt him more on defense watching this
year, like he didn't feel like he was just kind of stiff, rigid
upright a lot of the time. And so that clearly went along way be
like, what does what does the next runtier look like? For a player
who is entering year seven? But it's it kind of just feels like he
only just turned the corner because you and I have talked a year and year
out about he's like faded like or started poor and then finished strong or vice
versa. Yeah, I mean last year was the first time he had a
great year from start to finish, right, like, like he hasn't done
that before in his career. He it's always been broken in the thirds where
he'd have like a terrible third of the year, a great third of the
year, and a third of the year and he never knew where in the
year at those three sections were gonna be it was always different, but last
year he really put it all together. Consistency, I do think consistent of
the defensive end is the more likely way for him to prove. I mean,
obviously more consistency on an outside shot. You know, he wasn't bad.
He was respectable from deep last year, which is huge with a guy
with his speed and everything. But I'm less concerned with that just because the
way that he is able to use kind of the stopping pop mid range and
you know, get to the rim and all that. It's like, all
right, if you're doing those two things at that elite level, you don't
necessarily need to have the three point shot because you know that that mid range
pull up is enough to keep the defenses from just sitting in the paint,
and you know he can pick them apart if they're doing that. So it'd
be nice if he could consistently hit threes, But I think on step backs
past two season on step back threes with the Wild, but I definitely think
that being more engaged all season long on defense would be big, and not
just for him as a player taking the next step, but you know,
for the King's whole, right, I mean, he's the guy, he's
him and Sabonis are setting the tone. And you know, Sabonis doesn't have
the skills to become a really great defender Fox. Does you know whether that's
the best use of his energy, You know, who knows, but you
know, if he could do that with a little bit more consistency, I
think it does kind of set the tone a little bit more for the team,
and then you know, maybe that's where we see that improvement where they're
no longer a bottom five defense. Again, we have little bars for success.
So you mentioned Mike Brown and it made me think, made me wonder
because and you also talked about how you know his defense is not necessarily easy
to play, and you know their offense may look simple because when it really
matters, it's just a two It becomes a two man game, which which
is should which every good team that has guys like that can do. Over
the course of last year, did you see maybe the execution improving as the
team because ridiculous continuity, So that I mean that's starting five, everybody played,
everybody started. I think Fox was at seventy three games or something,
which was the least of that starting five, did you see them maybe executing
what Brown wanted them to do more consistently? Was that something that visibly happened
over the course of the year. And I guess the follow up to that
would be, you know, how much of their growth potential really just comes
from everybody's got a full year of understanding what is the what is expected of
them on both ends, and that just means they're going to be five percent
better at it or whatever. Like So two parter, I guess, like,
was there growth that you could see or just like aha moments and should
that will that translate if you did see anything like that. Yeah, we
definitely saw some adjustments and growth as time went on. I mean, as
they got better at executing it. We also saw them introducing new wrinkles to
it. And you know, kind of what we heard was that I don't
think even by the end of the year they were really at Mike Brown's full
playbook, you know, because they needed time to kind of get used to
running you know, the base sets and then kind of the second options and
you know, just kind of building you know, those building blocks until they
could get it right and do it all well. So I think that there
is still room for that offense, as crazy as it sounds, because it
was an incredible offense, but there's opportunity for it to be even better now.
Whether or not that will happen, I think that's a really lofty goal
because the offense was so good. I think I don't want to put a
lot of hope in like the offense could be even better. You know,
like that seems like maybe setting yourself up for disappointment, because realistically, I
think they had the best offense. I don't know if they finished the year,
but at one point they had the best offense in NBA history. I
think that's right. I think that's like for offensive ratings. So it's like
when you do that, it's tough to say, like it's gonna be five
percent better next year. So I do think that more of the growth should
come on the defensive end, even if it is kind of incremental growth.
Yeah, and part of hopefully, you know what I say hopefully, because
you never know, you know, with offseason moves, hopefully the depth is
better. That's the goal of the moves that they made, you know,
so the better depth could help offset if they do, you know, have
a few more injury, you know, miss games and things like that.
But I do also think it's worth noting because a lot of the criticism I
see with people projecting the King's Lowers, well, they had such good injury
luck. They had almost nobody missing time to injuries, like well that happened
because Sabonas should have missed like two and a half months, and he just
played through a broken thumb the whole year, and multiple guys were playing through
things like they had that, Like, no, we are getting there this
year. We are not making any excuses. We're not missing time like they
were a team on a mission and you know, so they definitely still had
injuries, they just played through a lot. I mean, there was a
little stretch where Fox was clearly hampered by some injuries and they finally had to
shut him down for a couple of games because he wasn't playing at one hundred
percent, but he was still playing through. So like that, the injury
missed games numbers wasn't really indicative of how banged up those guys were throughout the
year. Two players on this team, I'm fascinated by some I'm gonna lose
them together. Who has a bigger role this year Chris Dawarte or Kessler Edwards
Duarte, unless he's hurt or just still can't find his footing, I think
the expectation is that he is a bigger piece, and then Kessla Edwards is
still raw. He's shown some flashes, and I mean he's young, he's
cheap, He's a great piece to have. He was kind of a luxury
depth piece. But I would expect that Duarte has the bigger role. What
is the theory than of Chris da Warte on this team, just when you
have Fox, you have Malik Monk, who is like in the sixth minute
the year running last year, you have some bonus you want more touches or
more exposure for Keegan Murray. I think a lot of what christin Warte like
he should. He had great chemistry with Sabonis in Indiana, and so i'd
agree with you. I think they're definitely gonna give them the bigger role just
by virtue of that familiarity. But it's like that just the theories they're going
to try and sort of tune into that, and maybe you see a lot
of him like staggered from a Diarron Fox situation. I just I think the
value they got him for was absolutely like that was a great flyer to take.
I just still struggle a little bit to see the full utility of him.
When the roster looks the way it does right now, I think it
was more. I mean, definitely they're looking for that chemistry with Sabonis,
right I think they're definitely gonna look for opportunities, especially early in the season.
I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of line up staggering where
Duarte is on the floor with Sabonis, so that he's in the best position
to get off to a good start and kind of find his footing after a
rough sophomore year. But I think the biggest thing is just that, you
know, he's he's versatile, he's got some size, he's got some shooting.
That's pretty much all money. McNair's looking at it. He's like,
all right, I've got Fox, I got Sabonis. I'm gonna put every
shooter I can find around him. You know, guys that can move off
all and and kind of get an open look for Sabonis to find him.
That's where Duarte was really good. And you know, outside of Haliburton.
There wasn't a lot of guys finding other guys in Indiana. It was an
offense built very much around guys creating their own shots. And that wasn't a
situation was where dwart who was gonna thrive and the team just moved on and
you know, not to fault him. They've got good guys that deserve to
play over Duarte last year, especially with the injuries. But for as young
as he is, as good as he was his rookie year, I think
it's just a good flyer. And they're like, hey, he's a young
guy, and you know a guy who can play the two or maybe slide
down to the three a little bit like I can't have enough of those guys
with Fox and Saponas. I like how we're talking about and it's real,
But how Duarte has great chemistry with the Bonus, Like find me the player
that has bad offensive chemistry and then tell that guy. I have to look
look in the mirror and ask, right, if you can't play, if
you can't play with Sabonus, it's it's on you, man. What else
you got? Dan? Do you want to get to the cookie cutter questions
or anything? Else that. I had one more question about sort of the
front line. How many wins is Javal McGee? No, but thirty,
Yeah, that's what I thought they'll go like eighty three and oh yeah,
eighty two game season. I guess they could play eighty three because of the
new in season tournament. Yeah, obviously they're gonna win that. So they
got three games, and what is like, how do you sort of see
the secondary frontline rotation shaking out? You already kind of mentioned that Trey Lyles
might play a lot of five to perhaps or to make room for Zenkov,
and so like, does that just mean like we're gonna see very limited Javal
McGee or Norlands, Like, there's not there's it could get pretty jumbled because
of the four and five just commos they have. But is it just they're
viewing these actual centers that they have behind the bonus is just well, if
we get like stuff from them at any given point, Uh, it's a
bonus and we're gonna probably just try and run with the spacey or lineups.
When again we're looking at that secondary front court rotation, Well, there were
a lot of stretches of last season where they weren't getting stuff from their backup
center positions. So I kind of understand why Monte Mnire's like, bring me
all the options, like, well, put them all in camp and figure
out what we got. I think, you know, if I had a
guess today, how it shakes out. I think that near Lyn's Noel probably
doesn't make the team. I think he had a very good shot of making
the team before JaVale became available and they went out and got him. I
think that you know, behind some bonus, you're probably looking at Alex Lenn
and JaVale McGee, and then you know, Trey Laos with some small ball
five. I think that who plays more is going to be very lineup or
matchup dependent. I think that Lenn will probably be the primary backup center,
just because they did have some success with him down the stretch season and even
in the playoffs he had some some good moments. And then you know Lyles,
and I think that Javel will be used sparingly or when they really feel
like they need that riom protection or you know, those five extra fouls or
you know, whatever it might be. But I think mostly with him,
they're looking at a veteran, a guy who's been there, a guy with
playoff experience, guy can block shots. There's a local writer in sacrament who
had a great stat that over the last two years, Javel has blocked like
one hundred and seven shots and that's more than the next two guys on the
King's combined over the last two years. Like they've had no rim protection,
like no one and one of those top two I think was for Shaun Holmes
is gone. Like so it's like they haven't really had room protection. So
he just gives them that different skill set that they've been lacking, and you
know, there's times when they really really were glaringly lacking that then, you
know. So I think that Javal will be there, but I don't see
him being a regular rotation player. I could be wrong, but if I
had to guess right now. But I also, I mean, Mike Brown
showed us last year that like, if he feels like Alexland is working out,
he's gonna switch it up, and you know, he'll give him,
you know games, He's not gonna overreact to one game or anything like that,
but if it's not working, he'll change it up and try something else
for a stretch. So what does the right now with the roster currently constructed,
What does that ten man rotation like look at because it's actually kind of
I feel like they are. They're probably locks, but this is one of
the rare, really good teams where after you go through like the top six
spots, there's probably a good amount of questions thereafter. Sure, So I'm
just making sure I've got the roster here so I'm not missing anyone. So
obviously got you're starting five, you know, Sabonus, Fox, Herder,
Barnes, Keegan, Murray, Malik, Monk, davey On, Sasha Senkov,
Trey Lyles, and then if I had to guess, I'd say the
tenth man at this point would probably be the Dwartair Len. I do think
that they will probably have a fairly deep rotation through the regular season. I
don't see them doing like eight or nine man because they just have the depth
and they can throw different looks and keep guys fresh, and so I think
that they will try a lot of different things. But that would be my
guess is right now, the tenth spot is either dwart Hair Lynn. I
think Monk is obviously the lock to play the most minutes outside the starting five.
Who do you think play is the most off the bench. If we
exclude Monk, it's either Davion or Vasenkov. I have really lofty hopes for
Bassenkov. I've been I mean, they acquired as rights like a year agos.
We had like the whole last year to kind of watch what he was
doing and get familiar with his game and kind of watch how great a season
he had overseason. It's exciting to have him coming in and kind of joining
in. I think it's probably a little bit of an underrated move when we
talked about there wasn't the big splash, right, And I mean, he's
going to be an older rookie. He's not, you know, a young
guy that's going to become a superstar for the team. But I think he's
gonna be one of those really valuable pieces and I'm excited for him. Yeah,
if he can do anything. That second unit with especially Lyles is playing
the five and they're spacing the floor him and Monk, and I mean that
could be I mean, maybe that'll be the best offense in NBA. What's
something about this team that flies under the national radars we head into the next
year. Everything I mean, all right, I mean hopefully not after this
year, because this year they do have like twenty two national TV games.
But I mean they were on national TV like twice last year. There was
like ample opportunities to get flexed in, and they even like flex the key
the Kings out of an actual TV game even when it was clear they were
really good. So I think that, yeah, the playoffs, I think
we're a bit of a wake up call for everyone. I mean we heard
during broadcast, like all the national guys being like, I hadn't really watched
the Kings. They're the three seed, like since like January, like where
you've been. I do think that just how fun they are on a night
in, night out basis. I mean, that was a great series with
the Warriors, but it also wasn't really at the level that the Kings usually
operate, just because again the Warriors defense was doing a really good job against
them, and they had some of their key shooters just not hitting shots.
But I mean, when the Kings are on, there just so much fun
to watch it. It's just such a fun brand of basketball. And you
know, I still think that that King's Clippers double overtime game was one of
the craziest things I've ever seen, and just one of the best games.
It's like, it's good thing they didn't put that one on TV. They
had the choice between that or uh, some random crappy Suns game, and
they went with the Suns game because they wanted Durands debut and he didn't play
that night. I don't think that's gonna happen too much this year. Like
they said they got twenty twenty national games an age, right, I think
Wemby only had thirteen. I'm I'm not mistaken, So congratu king first had
a lot. They had quite a bit. I mean, I get the
Wimby draw like that's still probably gonna be a rough team this year though.
Yeah, it'll be fun to watch for basketball satus like us. But I'm
gonna normal fans pull off of the the the the outline here because I am
curious if this is an easy question or not. This team's closing lineup is
the starting lineup, right, unless like some somebody like gets stuck on the
bus or something, or like, is there any matchup that you know you
could envision where maybe Monk is in there for somebody or is this just you
are your best five out there? Which is the first unit, and that's
going to close the vast majority of games. One of the reasons the Kings
were really good last year was that they they had the depth and the flexibility
to just kind of go with whoever was having a good night. So you
know, there were plenty of nights when Monk closed instead of Hurder just because
Monk was on that night and hurt Er wasn't. And I think that they'll
keep doing the same thing. I mean, you know, if someone off
the bench is doing well and Harrison Barnes is having a quiet night, Harrison
Barnes might be on the bench, or Keegan Murray spent a lot of closing
minutes on the bench last year. I mean, Mike Brown does not play
favorites or care who you are, like if you're if you're not feeling that
that night, he's going to find someone who is. And I think the
most common starting lineup or closing lineup would be the starting five. But I
think there's gonna be a lot of times when they do kind of mix a
match just based on who's having a good night. Is there a what's what's
a weirdo wacko lineup? You would like to see them try this year.
Oh it's always a fun one. So two different weirdo lineups I'd like to
see, you know. One is kind of the whoops all fours where they've
got a million power force to just play all of them. You have like
Harrison Barnes run the point, and then Keegan and Vassenkov and you know just
yeah, Lyles and Sabonus and then the forwards. I want to see that.
It's not that bad. It would we could see it right, Like
I mean, like all of those guys that can handle the ball, Les
like not as well, but like an open space. Yeah that's fine.
So I mean realistically in that lineup, sa Bonus is just bringing the ball
up like he does most of the time anyway, So yeah, you don't
need a point guard when you got Sabonus on the floor and the rest of
the guys are all shooters. Still like it could work. It could be
interesting. Is it time for over under? Dan? Are we there?
Yeah? Man? This number is so brutal. They're always so I feel
like I say that about everyone, but so currently it's forty four and a
half? Is there over under for regular season wins this year? Greg over
under that I wish I could just say, yeah, forty four and a
half sounds right, but we can't. And then you alluded to this at
the top, whether their record may be better for several reasons. But you
suggested, and I think I kind of agree with you that the rest of
the West is kind of bubble. There are. I mean, there's a
half dozen teams that I think we would say underachieved in the West last year
record wise. So where do you see them slotting in in the West with
whatever that win total ends up being. So I think that they'll probably go
over forty four and a half, but if they do, it's gonna be
barely Like I would not bet on that line at all. Like last year
I was looking at the Kings over under and like it was ridiculous. This
year it feels pretty right, like, you know, a couple wins better
than last year, like you know it. Yeah, I think that it's
pretty spot on. I think, yeah, I'll take the over because it
is so close, and you know, if it's close, I'm Kings fan.
I'm gonna say over. As far as where they slot in in the
rankings, I would say probably somewhere in the four to six range, possibly
lower, but you look kind of historically in the West, like forty five
wins is usually like seven six somewhere in there some years eight or nine.
Like, I mean, the West is going to be brutal this year,
but I do think that there's still going to be some of that cannibalism,
you know, especially in the Pacific Division. Like the fact that all those
teams play each other four times is insane, Like is how like what are
the teams that you would say because the West is going to be brutal,
but it's also feels wide open like that I was trying to go through this
before the number of teams that I would predict finish with more wins than the
Kings, like just guarantee it right now. I stopped it too, And
I have the Suns and the Nuggets, and like I'm not even fully confident
in the Suns just because of like the availability of Kevin Durant specifically, and
just yeah, they hit home runs with minimum guys, but whenever you're relying
a bunch on minimum guys there there's margin for error there and reliably either like
that's the other thing, right, and so like would you add any teams
to that list, like or is that or is that? Do you think
that's right? Like there are two teams that you could maybe guarantee we'll finish
with more wins than and look, even the Nuggets might be risky because relative
to what's happened to them the past few years, they got really lucky on
the health front last season as well for the most part. Yeah, I
mean, I think that it's pretty safe to put Denver ahead. I think
it's reasonably safe to put Phoenix ahead. But I'm gonna have my own nit
picking with their their roster construction because I think they were like, look at
all these guys that got on the minimum. It's like, yeah, but
it's a bunch of guys who should all be like the eighth of ninth guy,
and they're gonna have to be like the sixth guy. Yeah, like
it. You know, when I've as a Kings fan, I know when
you take the guy and put him like three spots higher in the rotation than
he should be, it doesn't go well. Like spent years watching that and
it's like, oh that guy, he's an NBA player, absolutely, and
then you put him in too big a role and you're like, oh no,
that's a disaster. Like, so, I have my concerns about Phoenix,
but I mean on a night and night basis, they've got enough talent,
they'll probably have more wins. I'd feel pretty comfortable with that. But
yeah, I mean the rest is wide open. I mean, I think
outside of like Houston, San Antonio and Portland, just because I'm assuming at
some point Dame strated like any other team, if you told me they finished
with more wins than the Kings, they'd be like, all right, sure,
yeah, you might be a little weird, but I could see it
like who knows, three to three to twelve couldn't fall in almost any order
and it wouldn't be Yeah, I guess I you you actually said something before
that made me think of something else if they can't Or maybe it was when
Grant was talking saying that fans might just be happy making the playoffs again,
Where does that leave the Kings in the context of okay this season, leading
into the trade deadline or just trying to evaluate themselves against the rest of the
Western Conference? Are they like are they a team that will be aggressive to
look for upgrades? And I think it's just pretty clear would need to be
Like on the wing defender market you mentioned, oh Gianna Nobi, there will
be other names that become available, like Lou Dort. Just a lot of
stuff's going on in Oklahoma City right now that could sort of squeeze him a
little bit. Like are they a team that we should be watching to actively
try to upgrade the roster mid season or is it more kind of they're okay
with the stasis of we're gonna make the playoffs again, Like we need to
see more from a lot of these guys anyway, Murray vaz Ankov and we
just trust that's the bonus and Foss might make you know, past that the
halfway point that they might continue to make progress. So the one thing I've
kind of come to understand about Money McNair as a GM is that he's always
looking for the opportunity, but he kind of knows his price and is perfectly
happy to stand pat So if you told me that post trade deadline this roster
is more or less the exact same as it is now, that wouldn't surprise
me. If you told me they made a huge swing for a guy,
that wouldn't surprise me either. I think if the riot opportunity comes along,
they will absolutely be aggressive, but they aren't gonna shake things up for the
sake of shaking things up. Okay, So I mean we saw it with
I mean, how many years did we think he was going to trade Harrison
Barnes and he just never has and then he resigns the guy like so,
you know, I think that they're perfectly willing to be patient if they don't
see the value there, but the instant they see and then they think makes
sense to improve the team, they're going to jump at it. So I
mean how they traded Tyrese Haliburton, if there's anything to show you that they're
not afraid to make a big move like that feels like a trillion years ago?
Ye half ago? Yeah, it feels like a trillion ago. Yeah.
Did we not ask you about any one or anything related to this roster?
This team that you think needs to be covered. The only thing and
it's a kind of a minor thing, but Colby Jones, and he was
there kind of early in the second round draft pick. You know, with
the current roster, there's not gonna be a huge need for him to play
a ton of minutes. But I wouldn't be surprised if he gives them,
you know, some good minutes here and there, just kind of spot minutes,
similar to how they'll use Kessler, where it's like they'll just throw them
in. But I think there's an NBA player. They're not like a superstar
or anything like that, but I think there's an NBA player there. Uh,
you're gonna say something great. I was just gonna I mean, my
last question was going to be just can you how good of an ambassador are
you? And can you reach out to the Kings fans we've alienated and let
them know that we're we're not the worst people on earth? Yeah, I
mean big ask. It's a big ask. I mean, I mean half
Kings fans thing I'm the worst person on earth too, So I'm probably the
wrong ambassador, Greg. This was great as always. Thank you so much
for coming on and dropping buckets of knowledge and not not as much spite as
I thought it was going to come from your end of the spectrum. But
winning has softened me. Are you able to tell our listeners where they can
find you and all the work that you do and maybe even tell them your
proper title? So I'm on Twitter at gis g WSS. You can also
follow the Kings Harold at the Kings Harold and Kings Harold dot com. That's
our kind of primary place where we've got you know, that's our articles,
our merch or podcasts, all of that's posted there. But yeah, that's
the biggest thing is you know, just check us out there. If we're
completely independent, fans supported. We don't have any corporate backing or anything like
that, so you know, we're just out there doing our own thing and
not taking ourselves too seriously. Well, thank you so much as always,
and I think, as you know by now, this podcast will be pestoring
you again in future. Absolutely look forward to