WEBVTT 1 00:00:30.719 --> 00:00:40.320 Welcome to Destiny. Now here's your host, Cliff Dunning. Hey, good 2 00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:46.079 to see it. Come on in, have a seat. Our science in 3 00:00:46.119 --> 00:00:49.880 its current form, and I'm talking about Western science, the United States, 4 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:56.159 Europe has a challenge recognizing what we call consciousness. In fact, they cannot 5 00:00:56.799 --> 00:01:03.280 really pin it down because it's not something we can measure. And when you 6 00:01:03.320 --> 00:01:11.040 look at the Eastern philosophies, the Hindus have studied and written about consciousness for 7 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:15.920 thousands of years. In fact, the Chinese have as well, and bits 8 00:01:15.920 --> 00:01:21.840 and pieces of emerging data from the Maya is also revealing that they had a 9 00:01:21.959 --> 00:01:26.319 grasp on consciousness and how it's projected, and so forth and so on. 10 00:01:27.239 --> 00:01:34.599 In our program today we are talking about the near death experience and out of 11 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.640 body experiences, and also we dabble into a little bit of the remote viewing. 12 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:44.840 And we've had the top of the line here. We've had Russell targ 13 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:51.480 and Stephen Schwartz and many others talking about remote viewing and its impact. But 14 00:01:51.599 --> 00:02:00.319 within those purviews, we haven't spoken about consciousness. And this is the fundamental 15 00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:07.760 basis of a lot of these discoveries. Now, the near death experience has 16 00:02:07.799 --> 00:02:13.360 been chronicled for years. In fact, the proponent for the term near death 17 00:02:13.400 --> 00:02:19.319 experiences doctor Raymond Moody, who happens to still be alive. He coined the 18 00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:28.400 term back in the early seventies as a physician and actually interviewed over a thousand 19 00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:35.800 people who had these was considered clinical death experience where they actually die either on 20 00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:43.199 the operating table or at home or in the hospital, and then came back 21 00:02:44.360 --> 00:02:47.319 some In the case of Danian Brinkley, and we had Danian on the program 22 00:02:47.479 --> 00:02:53.400 a couple of years ago, he was pronounced dead for many, many hours 23 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:59.479 and then through some act of God, I guess you could say he came 24 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:05.000 back, came back in the body. But when he was in this out 25 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:13.680 of body state, he encountered different realms of reality that we just barely grasp 26 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:19.120 at because we can't measure it, we can't record it, we only can 27 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:25.479 go by hearsay, and very similar to Native American oral traditions. There is 28 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:32.919 enough people out there that are having similar experiences in this near death phenomenon that 29 00:03:32.960 --> 00:03:38.759 we have a huge collection. I just mentioned Raymond Moody, there's others like 30 00:03:39.439 --> 00:03:45.599 doctor Brian Weiss in Florida. We haven't had Brian on yet and a lot 31 00:03:45.599 --> 00:03:54.199 of other independent medical researchers who are having patients describe the state of consciousness that 32 00:03:54.240 --> 00:04:00.000 they're in when they leave their body. Now, I won't get this from 33 00:04:00.039 --> 00:04:05.560 a religious point of view because they don't believe that this is anything other than 34 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:12.759 heaven. And you know, there's no great descriptions when you ask your priests 35 00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:17.000 whatever. But today we have the great fortune to have a former minister, 36 00:04:17.240 --> 00:04:21.680 Reverend Jim Willis, who's been with us many, many times, who has 37 00:04:21.680 --> 00:04:28.279 written this new book. So today's program is Near Death Experiences, After Life 38 00:04:28.439 --> 00:04:38.199 Journeys and Revelations, and my guest today is Reverend Jim Willis. We do 39 00:04:38.279 --> 00:04:42.040 a lot of different tours each year, and each of them is designed for 40 00:04:42.199 --> 00:04:46.959 a different experience. But one of my favorite tours and one that we haven't 41 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:50.040 done in a few years, is the Sacred Temples of Mexico. This is 42 00:04:50.120 --> 00:04:56.639 going to be held November eighth to the seventeenth. It is an opportunity not 43 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:02.720 only to experience some of the oldest in ruins in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mexico, 44 00:05:03.399 --> 00:05:09.879 but also we have special permission not only to walk through these sacred temples, 45 00:05:10.279 --> 00:05:15.959 but also climb pyramids and there's a number of unique locations where we can 46 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.759 do that. To learn more about this tour, go to Earth Ancients dot 47 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:26.439 com forward slash Tours you'll get all the information. Again. It's November eighth 48 00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:32.360 through the seventeenth, one week of an amazing experience and very very special. 49 00:05:32.759 --> 00:06:15.519 I hope you'll join me. We discussed levels of consciousness here on Destiny quite 50 00:06:15.560 --> 00:06:21.279 a bit, and I've been interested in the out of body experience phenomenon for 51 00:06:21.319 --> 00:06:28.399 a long time and have had people on the show who represent them Monroe Institute. 52 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:33.160 But there's still a great deal of question about what that's phenomenon is, 53 00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:40.079 how it's achieved. There's so little we know about the states of consciousness that 54 00:06:40.120 --> 00:06:45.480 the human body, mind, and spirit can get into. And my guest 55 00:06:45.519 --> 00:06:51.040 today is a regular for Earth Ancients as well as Destiny. That's Reverend Jim 56 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:58.240 Willis. And Jim has a new book out called Near Death Experiences, Afterlife, 57 00:06:58.360 --> 00:07:02.800 Journeys and Revelations. And you know what, Jim is the best person 58 00:07:02.839 --> 00:07:08.600 to speak about this because as a former minister, you know, you deal 59 00:07:08.680 --> 00:07:14.480 with people dying, You deal with people who are in crisis who need to 60 00:07:14.519 --> 00:07:17.800 be supported and they come to their minister and say, help me, help 61 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:24.399 me, help me. So, Jim, great to see you, and 62 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:30.160 you've you've tackled this subject quite nicely in this new book. Thank you very 63 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:36.240 much. It's a It was in one sense it was unnatural because I had 64 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:41.399 already written a book about out of body experience in the quantum mancostic field. 65 00:07:41.399 --> 00:07:44.519 We had talked about that before a couple of years ago, I guess you 66 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:50.199 and I, and so in another sense it was so. In that sense, 67 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:54.800 rather, it was just a logical thing from out of body experience to 68 00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:59.560 near death experiences. I haven't had any near death experience myself, although I've 69 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:01.839 been around a lot of people who have. But I've had a lot of 70 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:05.319 out of body experiences, which in many ways is similar. So in that 71 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:09.920 sense it was a natural. But you just you put your finger right on 72 00:08:09.000 --> 00:08:13.759 it when you said being a minister and being with people. Because the genesis 73 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:22.079 of this book goes back fifty years. I was fresh fresh out of school, 74 00:08:24.240 --> 00:08:28.360 I was pastor of my first church, taken on a world, knew 75 00:08:28.439 --> 00:08:35.679 all of the answers, I was ready to go, and I had an 76 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:43.200 experience that I wish if there was one experience in my life that I could 77 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:48.440 repeat, knowing what I do now, this would probably be the one. 78 00:08:50.399 --> 00:08:56.720 I was a Christian minister at that time, fairly conservative, and so was 79 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:05.279 I a believer, Sure, a believer, but maybe not quite. Maybe 80 00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:09.480 I was a hoper more than a believer. Maybe we're an academic believer as 81 00:09:09.519 --> 00:09:13.000 a s's a good way. That's a good way of saying that. Yeah. 82 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.600 And you know, I had, like I say, I had all 83 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:18.679 the answers, and I had all the Bible verses and all that kind of 84 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:24.000 stuff. And I went to visit this woman who was in the hospital, 85 00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:28.039 and I was told that she was probably not going to come out in the 86 00:09:28.039 --> 00:09:33.440 book. I call her Hannah, and just a dear old lady remember of 87 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:39.360 my church. And she was sharp as attacked, and I knew she liked 88 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:43.559 the old hymns of the church. So when I went to visit her, 89 00:09:43.559 --> 00:09:48.159 I got in the habit of bringing my guitar with me to her hospital room, 90 00:09:48.679 --> 00:09:54.320 and I'd play the guitar and I'd sing Oh in the garden, and 91 00:09:54.559 --> 00:09:58.360 how great thou art, and old rugged Cross, and she would sometimes a 92 00:09:58.799 --> 00:10:03.639 nurse versus wheel other patients in you know, and they join in and sometime, 93 00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:07.440 but this particular day was the last time I saw her alive. As 94 00:10:07.480 --> 00:10:13.120 a matter of fact, I was there by myself and we had finished and 95 00:10:13.159 --> 00:10:18.039 I had just finished singing a song and I've putting the guitar away, and 96 00:10:18.080 --> 00:10:20.399 she said, who did you bring with you this time? And I said, 97 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:24.159 well, what do you mean, I'm here by myself. She said, 98 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.120 oh, I know. She said, yeah, they usually wait until 99 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.120 after you leave. I think the music draws them. And I'm saying the 100 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:37.960 music draws who oh. I wasn't thinking at that time. Music is vibration 101 00:10:37.759 --> 00:10:41.799 and consciousness is all about vibration, you know. And she said, yeah, 102 00:10:41.799 --> 00:10:46.600 they usually wait till you leave. That's when they come through the They 103 00:10:46.639 --> 00:10:52.360 come through the portal. And I said portal. And I looked over at 104 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:54.759 the door, you know, the hospital door, and she couldn't see it 105 00:10:54.799 --> 00:11:00.519 because there was a curtain between her and the door, and also the little 106 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.320 bathroom there jutted out, so she couldn't see. But I was standing at 107 00:11:03.320 --> 00:11:05.600 the foot of her bed, so I could look right out. The door 108 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:11.399 in the hallway was what door was wide open. I didn't see anybody there, 109 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:16.039 but I was amazed that she used the word portal. Well, I 110 00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.000 didn't see anything she was, you know, I didn't want to confuse her 111 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.840 and all this kind of thing. I said, well, see you next 112 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:24.039 time, and she said yeah. But on my way out, I stopped 113 00:11:24.080 --> 00:11:28.480 by the nurses station and I said to the nurses, what was Hannah talking 114 00:11:28.519 --> 00:11:33.840 about a portal and people visiting? And the nurse bless her heart, this 115 00:11:35.000 --> 00:11:39.480 was fifty years ago, before they started taking these things really seriously in hospitals, 116 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:41.720 and she said, oh, Hannah's been talking that way the last couple 117 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.320 of days. I spect she probably didn't have long to live. Yeah, 118 00:11:46.679 --> 00:11:50.519 And I didn't think any more of it. And when I was told the 119 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:54.240 next day, I got a telephone called in the family that Hannah had died 120 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:56.919 that night, and what I do the funeral? And I said, of 121 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:00.919 course, And so I took the guitar and I sang in the garden at 122 00:12:00.919 --> 00:12:07.000 the funeral. And but you know, I didn't take it that seriously, 123 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:11.360 but I never forgot it. And strangely enough, it was that word portal 124 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:18.240 that did it more than anything else. Well, now go forward fifty years, 125 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:22.639 a couple of a couple of months ago, Well, maybe it is 126 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:24.480 a year ago. Now, time goes by so fast. Because I was 127 00:12:24.519 --> 00:12:30.320 just starting to write this book. A couple from the church where I was 128 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:35.679 before I retired came out and he had told me about his mother who had 129 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:37.519 just passed away. And his mother was a good friend of mine, and 130 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.360 she liked the old hymns of the church. I used to sing the same 131 00:12:41.399 --> 00:12:46.480 songs with her that I had with Hannah fifty years ago. And I said, 132 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:48.000 well, what was it, What was it like? He said, 133 00:12:48.039 --> 00:12:50.159 Oh, it was wonderful. I was there with her when she died, 134 00:12:50.840 --> 00:12:56.480 and she said, she said, she said she could look down and see 135 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:58.799 a whole bunch of people waiting to come through the portal. And I said, 136 00:12:58.840 --> 00:13:05.960 the what And she said the portal? And I said, she said 137 00:13:05.039 --> 00:13:11.879 the word portal, And all of a sudden boom, that one word connected 138 00:13:11.919 --> 00:13:16.039 two experiences that were fifty years apart. But I was a different person now 139 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:22.480 than I was fifty years ago, you know, And as a trained you 140 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:28.159 know, theologians, as a minister, you probably didn't have class one oh 141 00:13:28.279 --> 00:13:33.200 one on near death experience or how to deal with people who use this vernacular. 142 00:13:33.759 --> 00:13:37.879 Yeah, how to deal with the I mean, you're there to comfort 143 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.440 them, perhaps read through scriptures that they may have liked, and you took 144 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:46.039 it one step further, playing the guitar, seeing hymnals and things like that. 145 00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:50.480 But here you are, now, fifty years later, going, wait 146 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:56.720 a minute, a hell of a lot more to this man. I'll tell 147 00:13:56.759 --> 00:14:01.519 you it was. It was unbelievable. Uh. And of course the difference 148 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.279 in me was tremendous. I mean I was no longer the young know it 149 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:11.080 all preacher. When you talk about did they train the ear for this stuff 150 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:13.360 in seminary, I don't know. Maybe they do now, but it's been 151 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:16.600 but back then they sure didn't they. I had to learn all kinds of 152 00:14:16.679 --> 00:14:24.759 important things like did apostle Did the Apostle Paul really write? Uh? Four 153 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:26.879 books to the Corinthians or just two? I mean that really makes a big 154 00:14:26.879 --> 00:14:31.360 difference in life, right. But at any rate, when I when I 155 00:14:31.399 --> 00:14:37.120 heard this now and I heard that word portal, it took me back over 156 00:14:37.279 --> 00:14:43.080 so many years and so many times I'd been at hospital beds and holding people's 157 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:46.480 hand when they died and seeing them flatline. And then the nurses and the 158 00:14:46.559 --> 00:14:50.360 doctors come in. They pushed me out of the room and they went in 159 00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.480 there do their thing, and the person will come back to life perhaps, 160 00:14:54.559 --> 00:14:58.759 and then they'll talk about seeing a loved one or seeing somebody. And back 161 00:14:58.799 --> 00:15:03.399 at the beginning, I guess I kind of believed it. I mean I 162 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.679 believed in other entities and angelic beings. I sang about Him and Hark, 163 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:13.759 the Herald angels saying and all that kind of stuff. But now I wish 164 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:20.720 I could go back and relive those days I had a because I think I 165 00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:24.279 could learn so much I had. But what do you think when you say 166 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.799 that, Jim, what do you think the dialogue would be. I guess 167 00:15:28.799 --> 00:15:33.000 maybe you could ask them some more questions about what did you experience, who 168 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:37.200 did you see, how did it? Yeah, or even what are you 169 00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:43.840 experiencing? Who are you saying? And now, Raymond Moody, who und 170 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.039 in his nineteen seventy five book Life After Life, was he was the one 171 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:56.080 that coined the term near death experience. But now he's also talking about he 172 00:15:56.120 --> 00:16:00.480 coined a new term relatively recently, within the last ten years that he's studying 173 00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:07.240 shared death experiences. Yeah, this is the phenomenon of people family members or 174 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:11.919 people might closer that may they may be standing around the hospital bed, and 175 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:17.240 the person in the hospital bed has a vision because they're dying and their body 176 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.639 is shutting down. But the people who are around that hospital bed, the 177 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:25.879 family and the close ones, many of them share the same experience. They 178 00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:30.480 see the same phenomenon. And Raymond Moody is studying this now and it's fascinating. 179 00:16:30.639 --> 00:16:34.720 Yeah, I had Raymond Moody in a number of my conferences. This 180 00:16:34.759 --> 00:16:40.679 is years ago. He's a fabulous guy. But one of the number one 181 00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:45.679 people that came out of his work was a guy named Danian Brinkley, and 182 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.759 Brakeley had multiple near death experiences. He went to it to such a degree 183 00:16:49.879 --> 00:16:56.759 he was dead for many, many hours and was able to describe the whole 184 00:16:56.000 --> 00:17:02.960 phenomenon what happens when we leave our bodies and passed back into the soul realm, 185 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:07.799 realm. So it's fascinating. While we're on it, Jim, let's 186 00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:12.960 give our listening audience the definition of what a near death experience is. Well, 187 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:18.079 it's it's kind of it's kind of tough because to have a near death 188 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:25.359 experience, you actually have to die. We're we're you know, the it 189 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.640 is literally the experience of of dying. Whatever that means, and now it's 190 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:33.880 We used to think it really easy to tell when a person was dead. 191 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.680 When their heart stopped, they were dead. Well, now we can keep 192 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.079 going people killed going after their hearts are stopped, or when their brain stopped, 193 00:17:41.079 --> 00:17:44.759 they were brain dead. Well now we can keep people going on tubes 194 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:52.079 and stuff when their brain is long done. But the hospital declares you dead, 195 00:17:52.359 --> 00:17:55.839 and then for some reason, you come back into the body, and 196 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:03.279 it's a It's almost always followed by a a series of events that are not 197 00:18:03.519 --> 00:18:07.799 always the same, but so many of them are repeated that it's fairly common 198 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:12.400 now person talks about leaving the body, and usually from up above, like 199 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.559 in the hospital room. They'll be up above on the ceiling looking down and 200 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:22.119 they'll see their body and they'll realize that that body is dead, and sometimes 201 00:18:22.240 --> 00:18:26.160 they hardly recognize it because that's not who they are anymore. But then they 202 00:18:26.240 --> 00:18:30.680 are usually you know, the well known stuff that everybody knows, like going 203 00:18:30.759 --> 00:18:34.720 through a tunnel. That's very common, coming through and seeing a light at 204 00:18:34.720 --> 00:18:41.559 the end of the tunnel, usually seeing some kind of an angelic being, 205 00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:48.079 a spirit being, a being, a light, and that's usually a culturally 206 00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:52.640 interpreted thing because Christians have to see like Jesus or one of the saints, 207 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:56.960 or Muslims are apt to see somebody on Hindus are apt to see Krishna or 208 00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:02.759 something, you know. I mean it's a cultural phenomenon, but it's somebody. 209 00:19:03.359 --> 00:19:07.599 And then after that they're usually given a life review. That's another very 210 00:19:07.640 --> 00:19:11.160 common one. You look back in your life and it's not like page by 211 00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.759 page. It's like all of a sudden boom, your a whole review. 212 00:19:15.519 --> 00:19:19.359 And it's not a judgmental life review. It's not saying, on the basis 213 00:19:19.400 --> 00:19:22.680 of this life review, you're going to get to heaven or not. Now, 214 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.319 that isn't it at all. It's more a kind of a well, 215 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.359 you've finished the course. You want to look back on it and see what 216 00:19:30.440 --> 00:19:34.359 you learned. And Jesus was so fascinating about this life review is they can 217 00:19:34.440 --> 00:19:40.279 kind of go from childhood to just before you pass and show these this was 218 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.359 you know, what do you think? Yeah, you think nothing's wrong. 219 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:48.680 It's not good, bad, or ugly, it's just whatever you experienced. 220 00:19:48.000 --> 00:19:53.920 Yeah. I've come to think of it kind of like deprogramming. We came 221 00:19:55.000 --> 00:20:00.440 down here to have experience on this side of the Higgs field, the material 222 00:20:00.559 --> 00:20:04.920 fence, you know, and we live our life, however long it is, 223 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:08.960 and we gain that experience. But that wasn't just to give us a 224 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:15.079 thrill. It was to actually add to the collective, so to speak, 225 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.319 so that when we die, those experiences I think are recorded. I think 226 00:20:18.359 --> 00:20:23.000 this is the basis of the whole idea of the Akashak library or the Akashak 227 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:27.319 field. I think those experiences are recorded, and the fact that they come 228 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:33.160 in a block like that, all of a sudden, we realized Number one. 229 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:36.160 A lot of people in their life reviews say, I realized that some 230 00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:40.400 of the things I thought were most important didn't matter much at all. The 231 00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.039 little things that were more important, helping a kid who fell off a bike, 232 00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.359 you know, and making them feel better, or saying the right word 233 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:52.880 at the right time and making somebody feel more useful, or that kind of 234 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:59.559 thing. I have yet to have somebody come back and say, boy, 235 00:20:59.599 --> 00:21:03.559 in my life review, I sure wish I had worked harder, or I 236 00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.079 had spent more time in work. That never happens, but it happens in 237 00:21:07.119 --> 00:21:12.160 this block of teaching. And people have a hard time talking about that because 238 00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:18.079 on this side of our perception fence in the material world. We're used to 239 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:25.000 experiencing the world through our senses, and we used to experience experiences as they 240 00:21:25.039 --> 00:21:27.759 come one after another because we're subject to time and we've lived on here in 241 00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:32.359 time and space. But on the other side, time doesn't exist anymore, 242 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:36.240 so it doesn't come to us like that. And I've noticed the same thing 243 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:40.519 about out of body experiences. I've come back from out of body experiences with 244 00:21:41.839 --> 00:21:45.039 a block of teaching that I have a hard time understanding and hard time explaining 245 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:49.079 because it didn't come to me sentence by sentence and paragraph by paragraph. It 246 00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:55.519 just boom all of a sudden there. And the other thing about coming back 247 00:21:55.559 --> 00:22:02.920 with these experiences is that I've come to the conclusion that a lot of people 248 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:07.279 have a tendency to say, this is what it's like when you die. 249 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:11.039 You go to a park, you see a tree, you hear the birds, 250 00:22:11.079 --> 00:22:15.279 you go clouds, that kind of thing, And I just don't think 251 00:22:15.279 --> 00:22:22.720 it's that way at all. I think that's what we experienced individually ourselves. 252 00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:29.319 But I think each one of us has different individuals based on our life and 253 00:22:29.359 --> 00:22:33.039 the little rolodex of experiences we've had and I think that's probably a comforting thing. 254 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:37.799 I've come to the conclusion myself, at least, I'm happy with the 255 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:44.720 idea that when we die, we carry a certain amount of this life with 256 00:22:44.839 --> 00:22:48.960 us, familiar life with us, and I think that keeps us from going 257 00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:53.519 from one experience to a totally different experience, which would be very unnerving. 258 00:22:55.680 --> 00:23:00.240 I think if we like the outdoors, if we like trees, and if 259 00:23:00.240 --> 00:23:06.680 we like clouds, that's probably what we experience because it makes us calmer, 260 00:23:06.759 --> 00:23:11.519 it makes us more comforting. And then gradually, I think we gradually here 261 00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:15.640 I am talking about time again, but gradually I think those experiences kind of 262 00:23:15.680 --> 00:23:21.599 slough off and we realize a totally different reality. So I think probably what 263 00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:25.319 we experience as a bridge to help us to that next place. Now, 264 00:23:25.519 --> 00:23:32.680 obviously, the near death experience, the person who is describing this world comes 265 00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:36.920 back to live, obviously, But if we look at the Eastern philosophy, 266 00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:42.000 and I'm interested in your take on this, they say the full death is 267 00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:48.559 you have the lifetime review. Then you might see some familiar faces who that 268 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:56.880 you live with in this lifetime, and then you go and you are you 269 00:23:56.880 --> 00:24:03.079 know, either helped or at to make a decision, you know, preparing 270 00:24:03.119 --> 00:24:06.319 for the next one. Yep. Yeah, And that's something I want to 271 00:24:06.359 --> 00:24:11.119 talk a little bit about. But also some of these Eastern philosophies and even 272 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:18.759 some people in the Western side of not only religion but consciousness, and we 273 00:24:18.839 --> 00:24:22.720 talk about a Cajuk record, say that perhaps there's a choice to leave the 274 00:24:22.759 --> 00:24:29.559 planetary system and go somewhere else. Now, that gets into some pretty heady 275 00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.839 stuff. But talk a little bit about the full experience when we do leave, 276 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:40.160 just for a little bit. Well, I have Again, this is 277 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:42.000 only my idea. I'm not trying to start a new religion or tell people 278 00:24:42.039 --> 00:24:48.559 this is what it will be, you know. But I have whereas way 279 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:52.839 back when fifty years ago, I had real trouble with reincarnation, and I 280 00:24:52.960 --> 00:25:00.880 just don't anymore. We can't if we leave what I now call the Source 281 00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:04.359 and journey out here to the rim, the material world that we're in. 282 00:25:07.279 --> 00:25:11.039 I think there's a purpose for that. In the Source, where we come 283 00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:18.720 from and where we return, there's perfect peace, perfect unity, perfect love. 284 00:25:19.000 --> 00:25:22.880 And a lot of people who die and have near death experiences come back 285 00:25:22.920 --> 00:25:26.279 and they say they don't want to come back because it was so beautiful there, 286 00:25:26.839 --> 00:25:32.799 and they felt so loving. The words unconditional love are probably the two 287 00:25:32.839 --> 00:25:37.240 words that I've heard more than any other two words when it comes to the 288 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.039 acceptance. Some people will say, and I think, because what that is 289 00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:45.720 is we're returning to that place where there is that oneness, the perfect unity, 290 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:52.559 perfect love, perfect compassion, all of that. But the thing you 291 00:25:52.640 --> 00:26:06.000 can't get in the Source is the idea of individualness. You can't. The 292 00:26:06.039 --> 00:26:08.240 Bible hints about this in the Adam and Eve's story. You know, Adam 293 00:26:08.279 --> 00:26:11.440 and Eve were one with each other, one with their environment, one with 294 00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:18.319 God, until they left that environment and came out into the material world. 295 00:26:18.359 --> 00:26:22.119 I think that's a kind of an allegory for what happens to us. So 296 00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:26.359 when we come out here and when we have these experiences, we are able 297 00:26:26.359 --> 00:26:30.359 to experience something that we could never experience in the unity of the Source, 298 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:36.160 and that's individuality. We call it ego, and each one of us is 299 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:40.960 separated from each other by that ego. No matter how close how well you 300 00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:45.680 think you know somebody, you really don't. I mean, you know you're 301 00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.599 we're separated from that, We're separated from God, and we spend a lot 302 00:26:48.599 --> 00:26:52.839 of our time trying to recapture that which is probably something within us. We're 303 00:26:52.839 --> 00:27:00.599 still entangled with that kind of reality, and so we do our lives trying 304 00:27:00.640 --> 00:27:04.720 to recapture the idea of when this marriage, love, all that kind of 305 00:27:04.720 --> 00:27:10.799 stuff as an attempt to recapture that idea of feeling one. You know, 306 00:27:11.720 --> 00:27:15.880 we're separated from our environment. I mean, I love nature, but I 307 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:18.119 think the guy who invented the screened in porch owt to get a Nobel prize, 308 00:27:18.160 --> 00:27:26.519 you know, So that's separation. And I think what happens when we 309 00:27:26.599 --> 00:27:30.440 leave here? We take all this experiences, ego and we take it back 310 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:36.480 with us to the source, and so the source grows. Now, if 311 00:27:36.480 --> 00:27:40.400 you want to use the word God, basically we're helping God grow. We 312 00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:42.799 are God in that sense. What a wonderful thing that is. That's it. 313 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:48.000 And it also gives me a great deal of peace when times are difficult 314 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:52.440 and when times are not going like I think they should, and I wonder, 315 00:27:53.519 --> 00:27:56.480 how could this be better? Could that be better? It gives me 316 00:27:56.519 --> 00:28:02.440 a great comfort to know that somehow I volunteered for that, even the bad 317 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:07.519 stuff, volunteered for that. I even volunteered to experience death. How can 318 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:10.680 you do that? In the source you can't. There is no death, 319 00:28:11.440 --> 00:28:15.519 and so all of that I think is really important. But one lifetime is 320 00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:21.960 not enough. That's why I'm firm believer now in reincarnation. I think we 321 00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:26.079 come back again and again as often as we want to, and I think 322 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:29.279 that's the key all the anybody forces us to come back, we want to 323 00:28:29.559 --> 00:28:34.519 until we feel we're done. Now, whether reincarnation happens year by year, 324 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.559 you know, we have an older life and then a not so older life, 325 00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:41.359 and then this life and in the future that, or whether it all 326 00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:47.640 happens at the same time but in different dimensions that give the appearance of age, 327 00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:49.200 I don't know. I don't know whether we live all these lives at 328 00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:53.359 the same time or you know, one after the other. I don't know, 329 00:28:53.480 --> 00:28:57.359 and I really don't. I really don't care, because the purpose is 330 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.599 not to spend a long time or like that. The purpose is to gather 331 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:11.759 the experience from multi multi experiential lifestyles and carrying that back with us. We're 332 00:29:11.759 --> 00:29:15.839 going to take a short commercial break to allow our sponsors to identify themselves, 333 00:29:17.480 --> 00:29:22.480 and we will return shortly with my guest today Riverend Jim Willis discussing his new 334 00:29:22.519 --> 00:30:07.759 book Your Death Experiences Will be right back. My guest today is Reverend Jim 335 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:12.559 Willis, who's written a new book on the near death experience, and he 336 00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:21.680 discusses his work as a minister working with people in his congregation and their experiences 337 00:30:21.839 --> 00:30:29.160 as near death recipients, other consciousness, out of body experiences, and other 338 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:38.839 levels of reality that people interact with when they leave their body. One of 339 00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:45.079 the things I thought was fascinating in the book is that you use the term 340 00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:49.160 consciousness rather than soul. And I thought, as a former minister you would 341 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:55.240 be saying the soul, the soul, but you get into the near death 342 00:30:55.279 --> 00:31:00.720 experience, but then you start comparing it with out of body and this is 343 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:04.400 something that you personally have done with and we know we've had conversations about that, 344 00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:15.319 sure, but talk a bit about consciousness and it's ability and a growing 345 00:31:15.480 --> 00:31:26.160 understanding of this phenomenon as a fundamental part of what we are. It's funny 346 00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:33.440 you should mention that particular question because on Thursday I'm doing a long distance zoom 347 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:38.920 seminar for the British Society of Dowsers and one of the things we're talking about, 348 00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:44.519 is that whole idea of what who is the eye that says I have 349 00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:48.640 this and I have a body, I have a heart, And it's easy 350 00:31:48.680 --> 00:31:53.640 to say it may be the word soul, but you can also say I 351 00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:59.319 have a soul. Well, who is the essential eye that has the soul? 352 00:32:00.519 --> 00:32:02.400 I think we have to go to Eastern religions to get this into our 353 00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:07.960 heads. And Hinduism is wonderful. I think it is they have and their 354 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:14.680 whole idea of Brachmann and Achmann Brochman is the what I would call the source. 355 00:32:15.680 --> 00:32:19.839 You can't describe Brochman. You can't find words to talk about Brockman. 356 00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:23.000 Once you put words around him, you've missed it because you can't put Brockman 357 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:28.680 in a box. The essential everything is And all you can do is when 358 00:32:28.720 --> 00:32:32.200 you say Brochman, you can just go that's do it. But they also 359 00:32:32.240 --> 00:32:37.160 talk about Atman, which is within each and every single one of us. 360 00:32:37.200 --> 00:32:42.799 The individual and the genius of the Hindu rishi six thousand years ago was to 361 00:32:42.839 --> 00:32:50.640 say Brachmann and Atman are one tho art that And so I think whatever that 362 00:32:50.920 --> 00:32:55.079 essential Brochman is that cannot be explained. It is within us. Now, 363 00:32:55.119 --> 00:32:59.880 the closest way that's usually described in English is to use the words so. 364 00:33:00.279 --> 00:33:02.279 But I don't think that's it. I think it's well, which is funny 365 00:33:02.319 --> 00:33:07.240 because that's so much of your background. But what you're saying to us is 366 00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:14.000 that it doesn't cover enough ground anymore. Now. No, it's not dimensional 367 00:33:14.400 --> 00:33:22.400 as and you actually talk about these multiple worlds that we can access with this 368 00:33:22.000 --> 00:33:29.039 tool, which is who we are, which is our individual consciousness. Yeah, 369 00:33:29.160 --> 00:33:32.799 yeah, and consciousness is I think the best word for this. I 370 00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:37.720 think consciousness is the ground of everything, the ground of our being. I 371 00:33:37.759 --> 00:33:42.920 know there's a lot of scientists nowadays we say, oh, consciousness is a 372 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:47.519 byproduct of the brain. The brain fires off neurons and then chemicals start in 373 00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.640 the body, and that's called consciousness. We are conscious beings. I don't 374 00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:55.720 think that's it at all. I think the brain is more of a receiver. 375 00:33:55.839 --> 00:34:00.119 It's more of a radiator, a radiator, a radios. Then it 376 00:34:00.200 --> 00:34:07.639 is a generator. The brain receives consciousness. And here's where quantum physics can 377 00:34:07.719 --> 00:34:15.119 help, because we talk about the idea of entanglement, how the very particles 378 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:19.360 of our bodies can be so entangled that the two particles can be a universal 379 00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:22.280 part and you put a clockwise spin on one, the other one will automatically 380 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.920 go to a counterclockwise spin. That kind of thing, and they are entangled 381 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.440 instantly. Well, these particles make up our bodies. And so if it's 382 00:34:31.440 --> 00:34:35.840 true on a micro level on a quantum level, I think it can be 383 00:34:35.920 --> 00:34:40.239 also true on a macro level. The problem is that on this macro level 384 00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:46.039 in which we live, our brains are so trained in the idea of interpreting 385 00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:52.239 everything through the five senses that when we go outside that fence, then all 386 00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:57.079 of a sudden, language doesn't work anymore. Language is invented to describe things 387 00:34:57.119 --> 00:35:00.000 on this side of the fence. On the other side of the fence, 388 00:35:00.039 --> 00:35:05.199 it's all of a sudden, now we're seeing reality with a capital R, 389 00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:12.360 where before that we just experience within our fivefold censury fence. We just experienced 390 00:35:12.400 --> 00:35:15.280 reality with a lower case Are we think this is all real? No, 391 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:20.519 what we think is real, it's just part of a greater reality. And 392 00:35:20.559 --> 00:35:25.559 I think part of that greater reality is that there are all kinds of words 393 00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:31.679 that are quantum Physicists are now using. Hugheverett, we back in what nineteen 394 00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:37.079 fifty seven. I think talked about many worlds and the idea of reality collapsing 395 00:35:37.119 --> 00:35:43.320 into many different worlds. And every time we make a decision, for instance, 396 00:35:44.280 --> 00:35:46.440 we think we flip a coin, it comes up heads or it comes 397 00:35:46.519 --> 00:35:50.079 up tails. If it comes up heads, we say, well, there 398 00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.599 it came up heads, without realizing that in another dimension, right next to 399 00:35:53.679 --> 00:36:00.559 us, the Doppelgang or us whoever we were, flipped the coin and it 400 00:36:00.599 --> 00:36:05.800 came up tails, and they think that's the reality that it came up tails. 401 00:36:06.119 --> 00:36:07.280 We think, no, it didn't came up ads. I can see 402 00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:12.480 it right here. Both are absolutely true, but we can only experience one 403 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:17.599 at a time. And so I think this is what consciousness is really all 404 00:36:17.639 --> 00:36:22.360 about. I think it permeates pervades. I think we could almost go back 405 00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:25.639 to the Bible and say, in the beginning, consciousness created the world. 406 00:36:27.079 --> 00:36:31.119 We just still have enough words to describe it. It's it's mechanism that is 407 00:36:31.239 --> 00:36:37.880 really who we are. Consciousness is just a term we've given it. And 408 00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:45.000 I want you to talk in a minute here about your out of body experience 409 00:36:45.000 --> 00:36:50.840 and the Monroe Institute. Here's the guy, Robert Monroe, who must have 410 00:36:50.920 --> 00:36:58.320 been extremely psychic and could leave his body at will, who developed a number 411 00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:09.679 of proms that allowed his students, I guess eventual clients to reproduce this out 412 00:37:09.719 --> 00:37:15.760 of body experience. Talk a bit about the Hemi sync program that you were 413 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:22.159 a part of, and how this is still going on today, but you 414 00:37:22.320 --> 00:37:24.760 did it many years ago, and I would think that they have refined it 415 00:37:25.360 --> 00:37:30.440 enough where it's like almost you could do it through zoom, but maybe you 416 00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:34.559 can't do it through zoom. Well, you know, they do have some 417 00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.320 programs on the Internet that will help you along that regard. But before you 418 00:37:37.400 --> 00:37:40.760 think that, for anybody who's listening to us thinks that the Monroe Institute is 419 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:45.559 some kind of a wild, out there kind of a thing, it's important 420 00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:52.719 to know that since these programs have been now declassified, people like Skip Atwater 421 00:37:52.800 --> 00:38:00.599 will talk about the time how the US Army was actually conducting tails trials in 422 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:07.599 remote viewing at the Monroe Institute out of body experience and basically we were training 423 00:38:07.639 --> 00:38:15.360 spies to go out and spy on the enemy without ever leaving the comfort of 424 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:22.360 their own room. And Hemi sink was something that Robert Monroe invented his original 425 00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:30.960 one of his original jobs in life and his professions was dealing in sound and 426 00:38:30.039 --> 00:38:35.159 he developed I won't get into all the technicalities of it, but he developed 427 00:38:35.159 --> 00:38:38.199 this basically thing called hemisinc. Which means what he's trying to do is synchronize 428 00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:45.079 the hemi's hemispheres of your brain left and right, so to speak. Well, 429 00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:50.920 that's simplistic, but that's the idea to basically vibrate at the same time 430 00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:54.960 and bring them into sync with one another, so that our intuitive and our 431 00:38:55.000 --> 00:39:01.159 intellectual side were in touch with each other. And that's really important because right 432 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:06.840 now we talk about left brain right brain, we talk about women think different 433 00:39:06.840 --> 00:39:08.480 than men. You know, men are left brain thinkers, women are right 434 00:39:08.519 --> 00:39:15.199 brain diggers. But what Monroe was saying is that no, we're both that 435 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:21.599 way, and we have the ability to go out of our body and yet 436 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:27.199 with full consciousness, with full intellectual consciousness. I started having these out of 437 00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:31.199 body experiences and I really felt the need for more, so I went up 438 00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:35.920 to the Monroe Institute. Though it was quite some years ago, fifteen sixteen 439 00:39:35.960 --> 00:39:38.039 years ago now, I guess. I went up to the Monroe Institute. 440 00:39:38.079 --> 00:39:43.440 I was up there for a week studying with William Buelman, and I think 441 00:39:43.559 --> 00:39:47.039 you know, Bill is probably one of the greatest teachers in the world today 442 00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:52.960 about out of body experience, and it was just phenomenal to use Robert Monroe's 443 00:39:53.039 --> 00:39:59.000 he had died by this time, but to use his techniques, his scientific 444 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:07.199 techniques and his technology to really help people bridge that gap and get out of 445 00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:15.079 their own body and be able to experience realities that we're outside of our sensory 446 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:19.960 me ask you real quickly, in this training that you took, were you 447 00:40:20.239 --> 00:40:29.039 given parameters to access like different parts of the world out of your body or 448 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:35.559 did you actually get a chance to look at other dimensions where if you use 449 00:40:35.599 --> 00:40:40.079 the technique maybe you could shift beyond this reality and move into other reality. 450 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:44.119 I mean, that's a pretty big well, no, but that issue, 451 00:40:44.360 --> 00:40:49.400 But that's an excellent question because the answer is both really Yeah. As a 452 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:55.000 matter of fact, we talk about astro travel and what's the other term I'm 453 00:40:55.000 --> 00:41:00.920 thinking about right now, Oh, being seventy eight has a drawbacks. Your 454 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:05.800 brain doesn't bring up the word that you're looking for, but two different travels. 455 00:41:06.239 --> 00:41:10.559 One that the Army was especially concerned was was keeping within this dimension and 456 00:41:10.639 --> 00:41:16.039 actually going places like going from New York to California and seeing something that was 457 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:22.480 going on in California called remote viewing. But then there's another that takes you 458 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.719 beyond the reality that we see into realities quite frankly, that are totally different 459 00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:37.679 than what we understand, and some very comforting realities. I've had the experience, 460 00:41:37.719 --> 00:41:39.639 and I've heard many people that had near death experiences say the same thing. 461 00:41:39.719 --> 00:41:44.519 I've had the experience of being out there and not wanting to come back, 462 00:41:44.719 --> 00:41:47.199 but knowing that for some reason you had to, and so you come 463 00:41:47.239 --> 00:41:52.679 back. I'm looking forward to that time and when it comes time to look 464 00:41:52.719 --> 00:41:57.239 at my own death, which I have to start looking at now realistically at 465 00:41:57.239 --> 00:42:00.599 my age. I hope that's the way I go. I hope sometime I 466 00:42:00.679 --> 00:42:06.760 get out there and I'm having a wonderful time and make the decision this time, 467 00:42:07.199 --> 00:42:13.079 no, I'm not going back. What was what was Monroe's hope in 468 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:16.920 teaching these out of body experiences? Was it for the people? I mean, 469 00:42:16.920 --> 00:42:21.920 it sounds like it's a great deal of fun, But was there a 470 00:42:22.039 --> 00:42:29.599 learning aspect of it that he wanted people to to gain greater or not? 471 00:42:29.679 --> 00:42:35.280 I mean, because it's a whole different spectrum of reality. Yeah, you 472 00:42:35.320 --> 00:42:37.440 know, how do you how do you know? I'm sure people, there's 473 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:40.760 all kinds of books out there. Obviously this is your new book right here 474 00:42:42.159 --> 00:42:46.039 on near death experiences. But what would be the learning aspect of it? 475 00:42:46.079 --> 00:42:53.119 Can you go perhaps in a situation where you're like Tesla and you're downloading new 476 00:42:53.239 --> 00:42:59.199 data? Because I believe Tesla went to the Acaheak records. They actually downloaded 477 00:42:59.239 --> 00:43:02.159 a great deal of his inventions from that source. What would you say? 478 00:43:02.320 --> 00:43:07.320 What would you say? I think many people that Einstein was known for his 479 00:43:07.400 --> 00:43:13.679 thought experiences, and Edison, Tom Edison used to bring those along. He 480 00:43:13.719 --> 00:43:19.519 would snap in his chair and carry a handful of marbles, knowing that when 481 00:43:19.519 --> 00:43:22.800 he fell asleep, the marbles would fall on the floor and wake him up 482 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:29.079 and bring him back. You know, because many of these how many inventors 483 00:43:29.159 --> 00:43:32.320 or painters or musicians said when they created their work of art or their work 484 00:43:32.320 --> 00:43:37.440 of technology, they worked and worked and worked and worked, and nothing happened 485 00:43:37.440 --> 00:43:38.599 to all. All of a sudden, they just gave up and boom, 486 00:43:38.599 --> 00:43:43.039 in an instant, it came to them. Monroe had some of that in 487 00:43:43.159 --> 00:43:47.360 mind. There are some practical things that Monroe is doing right that Monroe Institute 488 00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:51.360 is dealing right now. One is the work of the what is called the 489 00:43:51.400 --> 00:43:57.320 psychopomp and that's that sometimes when a person dies, they are so connected with 490 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:02.519 this world that they can't let go, and so they stay there. In 491 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.800 the English words, we would say they kind of want the landscape in which 492 00:44:06.840 --> 00:44:10.360 they died because they just couldn't be And I've had the experience three times. 493 00:44:10.719 --> 00:44:14.840 Although I never studied at the Minorroa Institute how to do this, but they 494 00:44:14.840 --> 00:44:17.960 do have classes that teach this. I've had the experience three times, have 495 00:44:19.079 --> 00:44:23.360 actually seen people like this and actually helping them to go on. You don't 496 00:44:23.400 --> 00:44:28.880 have to stay here, you know. So that's the classic ghost Yeah yeah, 497 00:44:29.159 --> 00:44:37.199 something like that. Yeah yeah, And it's I think it's really important, 498 00:44:37.280 --> 00:44:43.400 especially when we understand that the very first religion that probably humankind ever had, 499 00:44:43.400 --> 00:44:46.119 and that was thousands upon thousands of years and I'm talking at least forty 500 00:44:46.159 --> 00:44:52.639 fifty thousand years ago, was shamanism, and the shaman of the tribe would 501 00:44:52.679 --> 00:45:00.480 actually leave his body when he was dealing with somebody, trying to heal somebody 502 00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:02.360 or bring help to somebody, and he didn't know how to do it. 503 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:07.119 He didn't know what herbs to use, he didn't know what techniques to use, 504 00:45:07.199 --> 00:45:09.400 he didn't know what this person needed. And the shaman would actually leave 505 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:15.079 the body and go get information. And it wasn't just to give the shaman 506 00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:19.320 a thrill. It was so that he could come back with practical information that 507 00:45:19.360 --> 00:45:22.000 would help people in this life. And I think that's what Robert Monroe had 508 00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:28.239 in mind, the whole idea of being there is a practical reality to knowing 509 00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:35.639 that just because we are involved within this fivefold censory fence, this is not 510 00:45:35.840 --> 00:45:39.280 all there is. And quite frankly, I think we're living in a day 511 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:45.760 right now where a lot of the idea of the greater reality, which used 512 00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:52.079 to be a part of religions and part of intuition of ancient priests or ancient 513 00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:57.320 shamans, a lot of that is now being explored in a totally different way 514 00:45:57.840 --> 00:46:05.000 by modern scientists, physics, physicists, and I think they are using mathematics 515 00:46:05.599 --> 00:46:10.400 to come to understand that greater reality. And they call it counterintuitive and all 516 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:16.119 this kind of stuff, but basically they're exploring the same reality through math that 517 00:46:16.400 --> 00:46:22.880 the ancients explored through intuition. So I think we're living at a particularly yeasty 518 00:46:22.000 --> 00:46:29.320 time of human human accomplishment right now. I think two roads are coming together, 519 00:46:30.559 --> 00:46:36.480 the intellectual, the intuit and the intuitive and h and if if, 520 00:46:36.639 --> 00:46:40.719 if we don't find those answers and find them quickly, we could very easily 521 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.639 discroy and destroy this this world in which we live. The problem I have 522 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:52.599 with this uh physics is that a lot of it is so far in advance 523 00:46:53.519 --> 00:47:00.280 for average people, even those of intelligence, that they lose people, they 524 00:47:00.280 --> 00:47:02.760 lose him completely, and you don't see it every day. Now. On 525 00:47:02.800 --> 00:47:07.360 the other side of that, you give a great example of the you Knowetic 526 00:47:07.719 --> 00:47:14.599 Science Institute, the ions you've had being rad and a number of their people 527 00:47:14.679 --> 00:47:22.880 on this program who are describing and discussing consciousness and discussing out of body experience, 528 00:47:22.920 --> 00:47:27.320 and so we have, you know, and how brilliant of edgar Mitchell 529 00:47:27.400 --> 00:47:35.480 to launch this this institute. Talk a little bit about his experience as an 530 00:47:35.480 --> 00:47:40.480 astronaut, I mean back from the moon and having this huge aha moment, 531 00:47:40.840 --> 00:47:47.320 yeah yeah, and deciding that he's going to launch this scientific Instituteeah. Edgar 532 00:47:47.400 --> 00:47:51.280 Mitchell is one of my heroes. I mean, yeah, you know, 533 00:47:51.360 --> 00:47:54.280 talk about he had a long commute back from work one day, you know, 534 00:47:54.920 --> 00:47:58.480 on the way back from the moon, and he looked and he saw 535 00:47:58.559 --> 00:48:02.679 that that that planet, that what later was called you know, that small 536 00:48:02.679 --> 00:48:08.400 blue dot, you know, and everything else. He realized that what we 537 00:48:08.519 --> 00:48:15.400 experience and what we do is just it's it's that real with a small r 538 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:24.119 rather than the reality. And his idea in in forming the nodic, the 539 00:48:24.159 --> 00:48:30.960 whole idea of neetic sciences was because quite frankly, as a scientist himself, 540 00:48:31.199 --> 00:48:36.920 you know, he understood that there's a deep, dark secret when you talk 541 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:42.679 about sometimes the physicists make it, you know, it seems so very hard, 542 00:48:42.679 --> 00:48:46.320 and they even look down on us because we can't understand their mathematical formulas. 543 00:48:46.679 --> 00:48:51.199 And the sad thing is, I think sometimes they do that on purpose. 544 00:48:52.800 --> 00:48:57.039 Most of these people were nerds and they were picked on in school, 545 00:48:57.719 --> 00:49:00.360 and most of them had a tough time. Now all of a sudden, 546 00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:04.440 they're worldwide, they're famous, they got money coming in, and they want 547 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:08.000 to make it difficulty. They don't want to bring lay people around it. 548 00:49:08.239 --> 00:49:14.840 Not that I'm not saying every week, yeah, ego fulfillment exactly. I'm 549 00:49:14.880 --> 00:49:19.320 not saying they're all like that. But there's a certain condescension that, well, 550 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:22.199 you talk to enough scientists, you're going to run into it. It's 551 00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:25.960 a patronizing thing. Oh you just can't seem to understand this and the I 552 00:49:27.400 --> 00:49:30.480 and the idea that I had to go through school. I had to go 553 00:49:30.519 --> 00:49:34.280 through four years of high school, four years of college, eight years of 554 00:49:34.440 --> 00:49:37.440 you know, to get my doctorate and everything else and learn all this stuff. 555 00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:42.000 And now you're telling me that some guy who's dropped out of the eighth 556 00:49:42.000 --> 00:49:46.039 grade can have an intuitive experience and understand or that some Hindu rishi six thousand 557 00:49:46.079 --> 00:49:50.920 years ago said what I'm saying, it's the same thing. But no, 558 00:49:51.920 --> 00:49:54.559 that's not it at all, you know, and you get tired of that 559 00:49:54.679 --> 00:50:00.800 after. That's the scientific method that I always pardon me bitch about out because 560 00:50:00.119 --> 00:50:07.239 it gets into archaeology and new discoveries and it just makes a mess of everything 561 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:10.440 everything. It's it's kind of stuck in a rut right now. Yeah. 562 00:50:10.679 --> 00:50:16.000 Yeah, uh, you know, an archaeologist would never think of going to 563 00:50:16.039 --> 00:50:20.719 go Beckley Teppy and digging and taking a pair of dowsing rides with him. 564 00:50:21.559 --> 00:50:30.199 Yeah, never, never using some kind of sensitive electromagnetic field sensitive tools when 565 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:35.119 the lyric field there or something. Yeah. Yeah, no, that that's 566 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:38.559 you know that, and and and archaeology has suffered because of this, Yeah, 567 00:50:38.679 --> 00:50:43.320 terribly. We We could go back and talk about, you know how 568 00:50:43.360 --> 00:50:47.679 the Clovis first ruled this world, this nation for one hundred years. Yeah. 569 00:50:47.719 --> 00:50:52.800 And then then uh, and boy Andrew Collins comes out and says, 570 00:50:52.880 --> 00:50:55.559 I mean when Graham Hancock comes out and says, uh, maybe not, 571 00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:00.559 maybe there's other way to look at that. He got crucified. I mean, 572 00:51:00.599 --> 00:51:04.400 you know that, what does he know? He never he never did 573 00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:06.920 all the schooling and I did. He never had to take all the tests 574 00:51:06.960 --> 00:51:09.320 that I did everything. Yeah, No, I was just using common sense 575 00:51:09.360 --> 00:51:15.519 and intuition. Yeah. The books called Near Death Experiences, Afterlife Journeys, 576 00:51:15.559 --> 00:51:20.960 and Revelations. And my guest today has been Jim Willis. Jim, you 577 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.119 bring up a couple of people that I want you to talk about kind of 578 00:51:23.119 --> 00:51:32.400 the new science people like. His name is Robert Lanza, who has brought 579 00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:42.079 up a topic called consciousness generates Well. His idea is consciousness generates life, 580 00:51:42.239 --> 00:51:51.400 and that whole idea is something that is a kind of a spiritual science that 581 00:51:51.559 --> 00:51:58.679 the Hindus kind of understood but didn't necessarily practice, which is kind of like 582 00:51:59.320 --> 00:52:02.920 you create reality that you live in. Yeah, yeah, And talk about 583 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:07.760 him, because I haven't heard about Lanza, and he's said brilliant he's written. 584 00:52:07.880 --> 00:52:12.440 He's written a couple of books, and the whole idea is that if 585 00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:14.800 we're going to find the meaning of life, we're not going to find it 586 00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:16.840 out back there in the past or out there in space. We're going to 587 00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:27.119 find it in biology itself, and that biological entities. His books are very 588 00:52:27.159 --> 00:52:32.039 easy to understand until you try to start talking about them. That's exactly right. 589 00:52:32.440 --> 00:52:37.360 Written very well at string theory, yeah, yeah, And and they're 590 00:52:37.360 --> 00:52:40.039 written very well. And I think he is a brilliant man, and I 591 00:52:40.119 --> 00:52:47.440 think he's really onto it. But basically he talks about consciousness creating reality and 592 00:52:47.480 --> 00:52:52.800 how does it do it? Creates it through biological entities. Now, surprisingly 593 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:55.360 he doesn't say that, he doesn't bring this up in his book, but 594 00:52:55.480 --> 00:52:59.320 I made the connection myself. I don't know whether he would agree with this 595 00:52:59.480 --> 00:53:04.639 or not. But you know, I think the ancient writers knew about this. 596 00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:07.280 I think four or five thousand years ago, the ancient Jewish writers were 597 00:53:07.599 --> 00:53:12.559 writing the Book of Genesis, for instance, and they would say, in 598 00:53:12.599 --> 00:53:15.159 the beginning, let's just change a couple of words. In the beginning, 599 00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:22.719 consciousness created the air, heavens, and the earth. Well, how did 600 00:53:22.760 --> 00:53:27.840 it do it? By looking at it, God saw that it was good. 601 00:53:28.559 --> 00:53:37.039 In other words, consciousness itself created all that is around us. And 602 00:53:37.639 --> 00:53:42.920 it's really too simplistic to put it this way. So I really recommend looking 603 00:53:42.960 --> 00:53:49.199 at Luns's books. But he is just an absolute a brilliant guy, and 604 00:53:49.239 --> 00:53:58.079 who talks about the idea of us actually collapsing what we call reality into the 605 00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:04.760 material world simply the fact that we are here. So here we are, 606 00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:09.000 or it's amazing. You know, I'm a big advocate of meditation. I 607 00:54:10.440 --> 00:54:16.679 guess you could call me a hippie, well, the residuals of a hippie, 608 00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:24.840 because I was. I practiced transitental meditation, which was a developed meditation, 609 00:54:25.079 --> 00:54:32.400 simplified meditative technique that was invented by the Maharishi mash Yogi, and I 610 00:54:34.039 --> 00:54:38.000 for years would look at the original source material that he developed it from. 611 00:54:38.960 --> 00:54:45.039 And a lot of these these holy men were meditating half a day, sometimes 612 00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:50.280 a whole day, and in the West you can't do that. You just 613 00:54:50.519 --> 00:54:58.679 don't have you know, the time, the motivation, or the discipline to 614 00:54:58.840 --> 00:55:02.599 sit for hours. And so this is a TM is brilliant. It's brilliant. 615 00:55:02.920 --> 00:55:07.559 But as we're closing, when we're talking about out of body of experiences 616 00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:15.320 and remote viewing and other techniques, what is your suggestion for people to get 617 00:55:15.400 --> 00:55:22.480 in touch with their conscious self? And you know, how how do you 618 00:55:22.719 --> 00:55:25.480 move that to a level where you're not just going I have a nine to 619 00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:30.199 five existence and that's all there is. Yeah, best way and best way 620 00:55:30.239 --> 00:55:37.400 to do that in my experience is to retire. And that's that's exactly why 621 00:55:37.840 --> 00:55:43.159 that's exactly why I retired and why I am living now where I am. 622 00:55:43.920 --> 00:55:50.400 When I retired, I wanted to get in personal contact with this spirituality that 623 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:53.400 I've been preaching about my whole life. I've been talking about it, but 624 00:55:53.480 --> 00:55:58.519 I was too busy. And I was a CEO of a small company called 625 00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.760 a church, and we had to have all the business meetings, and we 626 00:56:00.840 --> 00:56:05.039 had to have all the board meetings, and we had to raise money and 627 00:56:05.079 --> 00:56:07.639 take care of the buildings, plan this and plan that, and growth and 628 00:56:07.719 --> 00:56:14.679 everything else. When I retired at sixty two. It was wait, it 629 00:56:14.760 --> 00:56:17.280 was too early. I really couldn't afford it, but I said, I'm 630 00:56:17.360 --> 00:56:21.760 missing it. I've missed it my whole life. And I came out here 631 00:56:21.800 --> 00:56:24.320 to the woods just for that purpose, the woods of South Carolina. I 632 00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:28.840 built a little house at the end of the road. And I didn't know 633 00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:31.239 it was fifty two that you retire. That seems you must have been sixty 634 00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:35.599 sixty sixty sixty two, yeah, sixty two, yeah, okay. As 635 00:56:35.639 --> 00:56:40.679 soon as I could get Social Security, I retired, and I was I 636 00:56:40.880 --> 00:56:44.360 was lucky. I mean, I came out here to live in the woods 637 00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:51.679 for one year and to simply meditate and have a twenty four hours meditation just 638 00:56:51.800 --> 00:56:53.519 you and me. God, you know, all alone. You say you 639 00:56:53.559 --> 00:56:57.199 want a challenge, take it on. And I was going to come out 640 00:56:57.199 --> 00:56:59.599 here and live for one year before I left the woods and went back to 641 00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:02.519 civilization. And that was about sixteen years ago and I'm still here. So 642 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:07.280 it worked out very well. But unfortunately we all know not everybody can do 643 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:13.159 that. I was extremely lucky. Yeah, it just worked out. But 644 00:57:15.199 --> 00:57:17.559 it is tough. It is tough. And you know when people talk about 645 00:57:19.440 --> 00:57:23.400 taking a long walk or meditating for fifteen to twenty minutes in the morning, 646 00:57:23.760 --> 00:57:28.960 or going on a retreat for a weekend or something. Those are all wonderful 647 00:57:29.000 --> 00:57:34.639 things. They're good things, and by all means do them. But is 648 00:57:34.719 --> 00:57:38.119 it sufficient to really break out of this life? No, we are all 649 00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:45.599 prisoners of the lifestyle that we have built. And it's so loud, and 650 00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:52.920 it's so fast, and it's so congested, and it's just so much that 651 00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:59.239 I'm not surprised at all that people are losing their way nowadays, a whole 652 00:57:59.280 --> 00:58:02.119 lot more than they used to. Just think about the simple little thing like 653 00:58:02.199 --> 00:58:06.119 going to town to get some groceries. You get in your car and go 654 00:58:06.199 --> 00:58:08.199 to get the grocer come back. It used to be that the farmer would, 655 00:58:09.079 --> 00:58:12.639 you know, get his family together on the back of the buckboard and 656 00:58:12.719 --> 00:58:20.320 they would go down the road and they would have this long process of maybe 657 00:58:20.440 --> 00:58:23.519 singing or talking or whatever. We don't do that anymore. You know, 658 00:58:23.639 --> 00:58:29.880 life is so much faster now. Oh yeah, you know. I have 659 00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:35.280 a continued problem with my car battery because I never used it enough and so 660 00:58:35.360 --> 00:58:37.719 it continually runs down. I got to put it on a trickle charger. 661 00:58:38.159 --> 00:58:40.880 My car sitting in the front right front yard right now. And I can't 662 00:58:42.000 --> 00:58:45.079 use it because better it doesn't work. But most people use You know how 663 00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:49.079 many times you get in your car every day? You know, Well, 664 00:58:49.079 --> 00:58:52.079 I get my car maybe once a week, and it makes a difference, 665 00:58:52.599 --> 00:58:57.079 makes a huge difference. Yeah, I work from a home studio myself, 666 00:58:57.159 --> 00:59:00.559 so I know I maybe I drive three times a week. Yeah, yeah, 667 00:59:00.960 --> 00:59:04.800 I had to hear it totally. But if anybody is does really want 668 00:59:04.840 --> 00:59:08.840 to take meditation seriously, you've got to find the time and make it number 669 00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:13.360 one in your life. You know this, you know yourself. I'm sure 670 00:59:13.800 --> 00:59:16.400 it's got to become the most important thing. You've got to find that time 671 00:59:17.440 --> 00:59:22.280 according to your own bio rhythms, when you're awake enough to be able to 672 00:59:22.360 --> 00:59:29.639 really concentrate, but tired but really relaxed enough so you can meditate without falling 673 00:59:29.679 --> 00:59:34.119 asleep, you know. But and with me, when I when I started 674 00:59:34.199 --> 00:59:37.280 out, for some reason, I found myself waking up at three o'clock in 675 00:59:37.320 --> 00:59:40.199 the morning every morning. So I just said, okay, I'm going to 676 00:59:40.239 --> 00:59:44.159 meditate, And at three o'clock that's when I got up and would do my 677 00:59:44.280 --> 00:59:50.920 meditations. And sometimes I was still meditating when the sun came up. So 678 00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:54.960 were you meditating for as long as it felt comfortable or did you have a 679 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:59.559 timeline. No, I didn't have a timeline. Matter of fact, I 680 00:59:59.639 --> 01:00:02.679 have more watch for thirty years. I didn't have any kind of a timeline. 681 01:00:02.719 --> 01:00:06.360 I started to meditate and I said I'll be done when I'm done, 682 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:13.480 and that was it. And sometimes I would get very involved in and out 683 01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:19.440 of body experience or something like that, and I would be out. My 684 01:00:19.519 --> 01:00:22.280 wife said, I'd be out for an hour or two hour or something like 685 01:00:22.360 --> 01:00:25.039 that. Sometimes it wouldn't work. Sometimes, you know, fifteen twenty minutes 686 01:00:25.079 --> 01:00:30.599 and I'm still thinking about what's for dinner, you know, So it's hard. 687 01:00:30.440 --> 01:00:36.880 Yeah, Hey, much success on this new book. Give people an 688 01:00:36.960 --> 01:00:38.519 idea where they can get a hold of you. What's your website again, 689 01:00:39.480 --> 01:00:44.920 Jim Willis dot net, www dot Jim Willis dot net. Okay, And 690 01:00:45.400 --> 01:00:51.039 if you go to that website, you'll find all my books right the Near 691 01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:53.480 death Experiences around the front page, and all my books are there. All 692 01:00:53.519 --> 01:00:57.079 I get to is click on it and you'll take you right to Amazon or 693 01:00:57.119 --> 01:01:00.360 to wherever you can get them. Just came out as released April the ninth 694 01:01:00.559 --> 01:01:06.840 April ninth, So it's available at on Amazon and most of your other electronic 695 01:01:07.960 --> 01:01:12.519 bookstores. What kind of work, what's what kind of events are coming up 696 01:01:12.559 --> 01:01:17.159 in your world? Are you speaking anywhere? Well? No, Unfortunately my 697 01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:21.199 health is such that I just really can't get out and do much speaking in 698 01:01:21.400 --> 01:01:24.639 public speaking anymore. But it's it's kind of strange. I was doing so 699 01:01:24.800 --> 01:01:28.800 much of it for all my life. For forty years. I was a 700 01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:32.639 public speaker and teaching in college and doing seminars and having groups. So I 701 01:01:32.679 --> 01:01:36.440 came out here of the woods to get away from all that. And in 702 01:01:36.840 --> 01:01:39.000 one podcast I might talk to more people now than I would talk to a 703 01:01:39.119 --> 01:01:44.639 year. Yeah, you reinvented yourself. This podcasts are pretty amazing. I 704 01:01:44.719 --> 01:01:49.440 guess. Well, you're doing an important Workcliff, especially with your with your 705 01:01:49.559 --> 01:01:53.000 history, with your experience. I mean, you've you've affected some great change 706 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:57.960 in this world. And so keep it up, keep it here. You're 707 01:01:58.039 --> 01:02:00.360 helping us all. All right, Hey, Hey, listen much success the 708 01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:07.039 book again Near Death Experiences, Afterlife, Journeys and Revelations. And my guest 709 01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:12.159 today has been Reverend Jim Willis. All right, Jim, my success, 710 01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:22.800 Thank you, Thank you, Cliff, I wanted to mention that Near Death 711 01:02:22.880 --> 01:02:30.719 Experiences just came out last week and you can find it on Amazon. It's 712 01:02:30.719 --> 01:02:35.119 available on Amazon or wherever you get your electronic books, or you can go 713 01:02:35.199 --> 01:02:38.079 to Jim Willis dot net and get it there too if you want. So 714 01:02:39.039 --> 01:02:44.719 good to have Jim on the program. I want to mention that we do 715 01:02:45.039 --> 01:02:49.480 a number of tours every year, and we have a tour coming up in 716 01:02:49.880 --> 01:02:55.360 August the fourteenth through the twenty fourth. It is a twelve day tour of 717 01:02:57.039 --> 01:03:01.519 some of the most amazing sights in turn and we're going to be going to 718 01:03:02.000 --> 01:03:08.280 darren Kuru, Cappadocia, and we have a special invitation to visit go Beckley 719 01:03:08.400 --> 01:03:12.960 Teppi, which I've been wanting to go to forever, and remember that is 720 01:03:13.039 --> 01:03:16.559 the oldest temple in the world. This temple that is it's just below the 721 01:03:16.639 --> 01:03:22.480 surface and we'll get a chance to see it up close and personal, among 722 01:03:22.599 --> 01:03:27.440 other places that we have on this itinerary. For more information on any of 723 01:03:27.519 --> 01:03:32.320 our tours, including Mexico and what's coming up on twenty twenty five, go 724 01:03:32.480 --> 01:03:38.119 to Earthancients dot com Forward slash Tours t o u RS You get all the 725 01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:44.360 details there, and if you have any questions whatsoever, send me an email. 726 01:03:44.440 --> 01:03:47.760 Send it to Earth Ancients the number four of the letter you at gmail 727 01:03:47.840 --> 01:03:51.719 dot com and I'll get right back to you. Some of our tours take 728 01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:54.440 a bit of time to get to and if you haven't left the States before, 729 01:03:54.760 --> 01:03:59.360 sometimes you need questions answered, and I'm here to answer them for you. 730 01:04:00.519 --> 01:04:02.679 We're all over the place, we're all we fly all over the world, 731 01:04:02.920 --> 01:04:08.960 and our tours are just not only experiential, they're a great deal of 732 01:04:09.039 --> 01:04:13.159 fun. So come out and join us for more information. Earthasients dot com 733 01:04:13.719 --> 01:04:18.639 forward slash Tours. All right, that's it for this program. I want 734 01:04:18.639 --> 01:04:24.920 to think my guest today, Reverend Jim willis coming to us from South Carolina. 735 01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:30.639 As always, the team of Gil Tour, Mark Foster and everyone who 736 01:04:30.719 --> 01:04:34.320 makes this thing happen. You guys rock all right, take care of be 737 01:04:34.440 --> 01:05:06.639 well, and we will talk to you next time. A A A A