WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:02.960 Tokenization is not hard, though, I will say, right, so it's 2 00:00:03.000 --> 00:00:06.960 not about the technology to be ready. It is about the money piece, 3 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:11.720 I would say. And so the thing about tokenization that you really want to 4 00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:15.880 have happen is you want it to be an atomic swap with money so that 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:18.640 you know the thing trade, so that clearing equal settlement. This is the 6 00:00:18.719 --> 00:00:22.199 thing about Web three clearing equal settlement. You have to wait for swift. 7 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:24.920 You don't have to you know, do all of this settle at the end 8 00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:29.039 of the day or T plus two or whatever. It is like you we 9 00:00:29.120 --> 00:00:33.479 have atomic swaps at the layer one layer. By the way, on algorithms 10 00:00:33.520 --> 00:00:43.320 in the layer one atomic swaps. This content is brought to you by Uphold, 11 00:00:43.359 --> 00:00:46.600 which is a great crypto platform that I've been using since twenty eighteen. 12 00:00:47.000 --> 00:00:51.200 Uphold has all the top cryptocurrencies, Bitcoin and all the all coins. In 13 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:54.960 fact, they have two hundred and sixty plus cryptocurrencies on their platform. You 14 00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:59.759 can also trade precious metals, stable coins, and thirty seven fiat currencies. 15 00:01:00.039 --> 00:01:03.359 In addition, they are available in over one hundred and fifty countries and this 16 00:01:03.400 --> 00:01:07.599 platform is fully reserved. They do audits so you can trust that your funds 17 00:01:07.640 --> 00:01:11.239 are safe, no commingling, no lending out your funds. If you'd like 18 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:15.879 to learn more about Uphold, please visit the link in the description. Welcome 19 00:01:17.000 --> 00:01:21.840 to the Thinking Crypto Podcasts. You're home for cryptocurrency news and interviews. With 20 00:01:21.879 --> 00:01:26.879 me today is Stacy Warden, who's the CEO of the Algorand Foundation. Stacy, 21 00:01:26.959 --> 00:01:29.959 great to have you on. Oh thanks, I'm so happy to be 22 00:01:30.000 --> 00:01:34.799 here, Stacy. Where's your Algorand hat? Or do I know those falls 23 00:01:34.840 --> 00:01:37.239 behind you are hats or what? Like? What's up with that? It's 24 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.280 like pillows. And when I had pillows years ago, they didn't have the 25 00:01:41.319 --> 00:01:45.159 Algorand, so I will have to add one. But i am an Algo 26 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:49.159 token holder. So I've followed algran for years. I've interviewed Sean and a 27 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.560 bunch of other folks, you know, algrand and I'm excited to speak with 28 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:57.400 you to learn about all the latest developments. Okay, swag department of the 29 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:00.680 Algorand Foundation. If you are listening, get this man a pillow an al 30 00:02:00.719 --> 00:02:06.840 Graham Pillow. Stacey. Before we talk all things al Grah, tell us 31 00:02:06.879 --> 00:02:12.120 about yourself, where you're from, and what's your professional background. So I 32 00:02:12.199 --> 00:02:15.199 am originally was born in New York City and I live in Washington, d 33 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:21.080 C. Now, and I am an economist by training, and I moved 34 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:25.080 and I've always worked in kind of developing countries and emerging markets and with small 35 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:30.400 enterprises and businesses, and I moved more and more from I guess my trajectory 36 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:36.000 is econ to finance to crypto. I'm getting kind of better all the time, 37 00:02:36.039 --> 00:02:39.120 more cutting edge all the time as I go through my professional career, 38 00:02:39.159 --> 00:02:44.680 I guess, yeah. And you know that fascinates me because we've seen quite 39 00:02:44.719 --> 00:02:47.560 a few folks in trad FI leave the trad file industry and come work in 40 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:53.360 crypto. So tell us about that journey. What was your first encounter with 41 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:54.800 Bigcoy and what was your aha moment? And when did you say, you 42 00:02:54.879 --> 00:02:59.400 know what, I want to go work in this industry. Yeah. So, 43 00:02:59.719 --> 00:03:04.240 I'm have always been very interested in access to capital, and I have 44 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:10.039 always thought that access to capital means payments as a kind of a bedrock concept. 45 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:15.120 And I am familiar with working in Africa and also in some places in 46 00:03:15.159 --> 00:03:20.560 Latin America where you know, somebody might have to spend a day walking just 47 00:03:20.599 --> 00:03:23.120 to pay their electricity bill. And then back to their village because they can't 48 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:28.120 get a bank account. And so I was able very early in my career 49 00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.360 to make a distinction between having a bank account and having access to finance. 50 00:03:32.400 --> 00:03:36.719 And of course some of the countries that I worked in were really bleeding edge. 51 00:03:36.759 --> 00:03:46.319 So Kenya, you know, had this safari calm. I always think 52 00:03:46.879 --> 00:03:51.319 sab pay now, but their paces are there and pace offering was very much 53 00:03:51.360 --> 00:03:53.879 ahead of kind of traditional finance back in the United States, and it was 54 00:03:53.919 --> 00:03:59.520 so interesting to see, Wow, these developing countries are really kind of leap 55 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:03.919 frogging payments, payments that don't require you to have a bank account, born 56 00:04:03.960 --> 00:04:09.840 out of necessity. And the other thing that Ampesa did was they allowed you 57 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:15.039 to make payments from a not a smartphone, like a regular like a flip 58 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.519 phone, and the idea and you know, sitting next to it at dinner, 59 00:04:17.720 --> 00:04:20.360 I will never forget this. The Central Bank governor of the Central Bank 60 00:04:20.399 --> 00:04:25.439 of Kenya, and he's explained to me how he can pay his workers back 61 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:28.959 in his farm in the villages he grew up in without ever leaving Kenya, 62 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:31.079 and it gets to them instantly. And I remember this is you know, 63 00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:36.439 many years ago now, but thinking that's unbelievable, Like that's unbelievable, and 64 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:41.439 so I always sort of had my eye open for like, how is this 65 00:04:41.480 --> 00:04:44.480 technology going to scale? How is it going to be, how's it going 66 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:48.079 to become globally widespread? And like if Kenya can do it, like why 67 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:54.639 can't this be everywhere else? Right? Sure? And so I but I 68 00:04:54.680 --> 00:05:00.759 didn't have crypto on the brain then. And I was separately doing some training 69 00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:04.920 with the National Press Institute to train the press in the United States about financial 70 00:05:04.920 --> 00:05:10.600 markets topics. This was right after the global financial crisis, and it was 71 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:14.000 such a good gig because I would hire an expert. So it's like, 72 00:05:14.160 --> 00:05:16.240 what's happening with GSE reform, the reform of Fanning and Freddy, Oh, 73 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:19.480 I'll hire I'll just get this like GSSE expert to come and do a lecture 74 00:05:19.519 --> 00:05:21.120 this week, blah blah blah blah. And I had all these things, 75 00:05:21.120 --> 00:05:26.759 and so they requested bitcoin. This is in twenty thirteen. I didn't have 76 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.399 a bitcoin expert, like, I hadn't nobody to call, like who's going 77 00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:34.000 to give this lecture? But I was curious about it myself. And it 78 00:05:34.040 --> 00:05:36.040 had been around a couple of years then, you know, for me, 79 00:05:36.120 --> 00:05:42.040 it had been around a year maybe. So I decided to figure out what 80 00:05:42.120 --> 00:05:44.319 it is. And I spent a bunch of time trying to figure out what 81 00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:46.920 it is. And I worked at a think tank, so it was possible 82 00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:50.360 in a think tank to like shut your office door and like bury yourself in 83 00:05:50.439 --> 00:05:54.680 a hole for four days, you know, And so I did that and 84 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:59.560 I kind of came out in love. I was like, this is unbelievable. 85 00:06:00.040 --> 00:06:04.319 And I thought that bitcoin could do things at scale that it can't really 86 00:06:04.399 --> 00:06:09.279 do at scale. And but then the more you learn about it, and 87 00:06:09.319 --> 00:06:12.800 then this very young, you know, ittallic booterin comes in and he says, 88 00:06:12.800 --> 00:06:14.439 oh, you know, money can be programmable. I was like, 89 00:06:14.439 --> 00:06:17.399 oh, money can be programmable. That's unbelievable. Oh and you can build 90 00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:19.800 anything you want on the top of this. Oh you know, Okay, 91 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:25.240 tough to look back after that, right, tough to look back. But 92 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:30.360 professionally I got a lot of fud and like what is this? And you 93 00:06:30.439 --> 00:06:32.360 know, I worked for Mike Milkin at the time. Yeah, And of 94 00:06:32.399 --> 00:06:40.360 course Mike Milkin is not interested in having his name all over the pay front 95 00:06:40.399 --> 00:06:45.279 page of the newspaper, you know, millions of people lost money in fake 96 00:06:45.319 --> 00:06:49.040 Internet money. Mike Milkin Institute is, you know, so he was super 97 00:06:49.079 --> 00:06:54.560 super skeptical about me spending a lot of things going on there as well. 98 00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:00.720 But we did a we did a I I wrote an article for the Milkan 99 00:07:00.759 --> 00:07:05.360 Institute Review and it was downloaded like a gazillion times, and so the editor 100 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:08.800 of the review is like, Wow, people seem really interested in this topic. 101 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:14.439 And then this is in twenty thirteen, we had a global conference and 102 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.879 the panel there was this panel called like Things that will Blow your Mind. 103 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:23.519 That was the most downloaded panel of that conference. My bitcoin panel was the 104 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:27.199 second most downloaded panel of that conference. So it was like bitcoin and crypto. 105 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.439 And so then they started thinking, oh, you know, maybe there's 106 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:31.800 some interest in this, maybe this is a topic that we should be on 107 00:07:31.839 --> 00:07:35.120 top of. And so then I started getting a bit more money and a 108 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:41.439 bit more you know, kind of time allotment that I could pay attention to 109 00:07:41.480 --> 00:07:44.000 this, and then I just kept doing it. But it has got to 110 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:46.199 be. It started out as kind of a side hustle, and then I 111 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:48.519 started getting more and more intrint more and more, and then it's moving so 112 00:07:48.720 --> 00:07:53.319 fast, right, And then DeFi summer came and you cannot do You cannot 113 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:57.199 do it halfway. You're either in or you're not in, and so I 114 00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:03.040 got in. Wow. No, there's an interesting dynamic happening with, for 115 00:08:03.079 --> 00:08:07.319 example, Jamie Diamond, who's the face of the banking industry, and comments 116 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.519 he's made despite what JP Morgan is actually doing. We've seen they've had a 117 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:16.959 bigcoin wealth fund, testing tokenization, testing different blockchains. I'd even invest it 118 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.160 in Consensus, which was working on etherorem Yet you have these statements that will 119 00:08:22.199 --> 00:08:26.560 come from the likes of Jamie Diamond. And do you think it's because, 120 00:08:26.759 --> 00:08:31.159 like you talked about payments and the movement of money, they're getting disrupted and 121 00:08:31.559 --> 00:08:35.679 that's why they're having the knee jerk reaction. We don't like this. It's 122 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.320 going to take our lunch eventually, or we're gonna have to capitulate. What 123 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:43.480 are your thoughts on that? You know, I worked for Jamie Diamond for 124 00:08:43.679 --> 00:08:48.159 you know, eight years, and I got to tell you they hate it 125 00:08:48.200 --> 00:08:50.200 when he does stuff like that, you know, because they're like these bankers, 126 00:08:50.240 --> 00:08:54.120 they are hustling, they're trying to do. Jpie Morgan Onyx is a 127 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.679 very good business. I mean they are, they're very very important player, 128 00:08:56.759 --> 00:09:01.519 and I mean it's a permission chain, but they're they're really pushing the envelope 129 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:07.200 of stuff. And so I do know that it's there's some kind sometimes a 130 00:09:07.279 --> 00:09:09.600 disconnect between what you know, we call it the front office says, versus 131 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:15.720 the business that's really going on. I don't think I don't know. Of 132 00:09:15.759 --> 00:09:18.240 course, you know, Jamie down does not call me and like get my 133 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:22.399 views on things. But I don't think it's that. I think he as 134 00:09:22.440 --> 00:09:24.919 a person doesn't really like he doesn't get it, Like he thinks this is 135 00:09:26.000 --> 00:09:28.519 like ridiculous, and you're probably never going to persuade him that it's not ridiculous. 136 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:35.360 But that doesn't mean that he stands in the way of his business lines 137 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.480 pursuing things to make money. You know, he is gonna he will stand 138 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:43.120 in front of that if it really really if he thinks that it's going to 139 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.440 put the balance sheet of the bank at risk, right, or if it's 140 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.960 going to run them a foul of regulators in some way, right, or 141 00:09:52.480 --> 00:09:58.679 something else. But he he is and he's allowed to speak, and he's 142 00:09:58.679 --> 00:10:03.200 a very successful guy, so he's used to opining about what he thinks. 143 00:10:03.559 --> 00:10:09.519 But I don't think that he thinks institutionally that this is a big existential threat 144 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.399 that he has to worry about. And I don't think that he issues directives 145 00:10:13.440 --> 00:10:18.320 internally to make people stop working on it. Is that again is my is 146 00:10:18.360 --> 00:10:22.080 my guess about what's going on there. Yeah, And we've seen that from 147 00:10:22.440 --> 00:10:26.720 Warren Buffett and Rest in Peace, Charlie Munger. You know, guys like 148 00:10:28.159 --> 00:10:33.080 similar to Jamie dimand they have been so uber successful in what they're doing with 149 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:39.759 tratfi assets that the concept of these things bitcoin or blockchains and so forth that 150 00:10:39.159 --> 00:10:43.440 doesn't seem appealing. And I don't know, they just have a knee jerk 151 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:46.519 reaction like I don't talk to me about that. I don't care about it. 152 00:10:48.159 --> 00:10:52.879 Yeah. But also, I mean, governments make money, but you 153 00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:56.399 know, you grew up. If somebody my age are, especially if you're 154 00:10:56.440 --> 00:11:00.759 like twenty thirty years older than I am, money comes from this is not 155 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.120 something that you in your head separate. I mean, I have a friend, 156 00:11:03.159 --> 00:11:07.440 he's a very smart guy, very smart guy, and he's like, 157 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:09.879 I want you to explain this to me, and I want to exp and. 158 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.919 He was dropping his daughter off at college. They were spending the weekend 159 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:16.279 with me, so he got up early and he's like, okay, but 160 00:11:16.320 --> 00:11:18.879 I don't understand. The thing is I just don't understand, like I don't 161 00:11:18.960 --> 00:11:22.480 understand it, like it's money, money is I like, and I said, 162 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:26.240 if you would stop for a second and take a breath and stop saying 163 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.679 you don't understand it, and just listen to what I'm telling you about how 164 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:35.120 it works, like just open your mind a little, just open your But 165 00:11:35.159 --> 00:11:39.440 the bedrock idea that money does not come from a government is very hard for 166 00:11:39.519 --> 00:11:45.639 somebody to get over, you know, like how could that be? You 167 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:50.759 know, it's so it's it's it's like but a lot of things are like 168 00:11:50.799 --> 00:11:54.279 that, right, like you can't. I mean, I remember videos when 169 00:11:54.360 --> 00:11:58.600 videos were coming across like a web page and like you have, I'm like, 170 00:11:58.679 --> 00:12:01.519 how does a video come on a web page? Web pages are static? 171 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:05.480 Like what is that? Like? How how come there's things moving on 172 00:12:05.519 --> 00:12:09.559 what is obviously a static piece of technology? Like I remember speaking that to 173 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:11.440 myself. You know, but you're just got to get over that, you 174 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:16.679 know, you're kind of yeah, it's it's fascinating because there's, like you 175 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:22.559 said, there's this human element and change in itself is hard for human beings, 176 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:26.120 right, and you bring up very disruptive technology, and it's you have 177 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:30.879 people who just like they have this knee jerk reaction or what is this? 178 00:12:30.960 --> 00:12:31.960 I hate it? Or I don't know what to feel about it, or 179 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.480 it scares me, so I'm not going to even bother to educate myself about 180 00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:41.799 it. So it's just funny you get these mix of emotions. You know. 181 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:46.559 It's so with that said, you know, there's the s curve adoption, 182 00:12:46.879 --> 00:12:50.240 right and Algoran obviously's building a lot of great technologies and doing a lot 183 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:56.639 of things. You know, when do you think we will hit that mass 184 00:12:56.639 --> 00:12:58.279 adoption? Is it like ten years from now? It kind of like when 185 00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:01.720 the internet from dial up to broadband and then you had tons of users come 186 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.600 on board because it was less friction, it was easy to use, it 187 00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:09.039 was faster. And right now there's a lot of great wallets and technologies and 188 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:13.440 use cases being built that are going to be applied in a real world. 189 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:15.639 You know, what's your out This is a hard question, but what's your 190 00:13:15.639 --> 00:13:20.320 outlook? You know, as far as timeline, when anybody can do something 191 00:13:20.320 --> 00:13:22.679 with this and they don't even have to think about it. Yeah, I 192 00:13:22.679 --> 00:13:28.000 mean timeline is, as you've intimated, a little tricky. But I do 193 00:13:28.039 --> 00:13:31.799 think that we as an industry have some wood to chop, for sure. 194 00:13:31.399 --> 00:13:37.399 I mean some of the stuff is just absolutely you know, existential, like 195 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:43.759 you can't. It's about self sovereignty. So self sovereignty comes with responsibility that 196 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:46.960 people don't really want. And you're talking about mass adoption, you know, 197 00:13:48.879 --> 00:13:58.679 memorizing a twenty five word pneumonic or keeping it or or being not being able 198 00:13:58.720 --> 00:14:01.519 to blame somebody if some bridge gets hacked, like the stuff that goes with 199 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:07.120 the territory. People do not understand that, you know. They don't like 200 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.480 maybe too much owned by the government. But I mean I actually see this 201 00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:18.840 a little bit myself from the Foundation. They don't want people in the our 202 00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:20.720 ecosystem. They don't want the Foundation doing too much, and the Foundation tries 203 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.240 to do too much. They don't like it when stuff goes wrong. They 204 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:26.879 want somebody to call, they want somebody to DM and you know, crypto 205 00:14:28.080 --> 00:14:33.679 in its purest form, there's nobody to call, right And so I think 206 00:14:33.279 --> 00:14:39.519 you have and of course the whole regulatory overlay also needs to I think everybody 207 00:14:39.559 --> 00:14:43.519 now has come to a convergence of views where it's not so much about the 208 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:50.200 cipher punks and over you know, being completely stateless, right, but it 209 00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:54.960 is much more about, Okay, how can we fit into a regulatory environment 210 00:14:54.000 --> 00:15:01.080 that makes sense? And so I think the industry also was very surprised in 211 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.960 the same way that the normals were surprised at all the stuff that went wrong 212 00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.080 in twenty two, twenty twenty one, twenty two, Right, we were 213 00:15:09.080 --> 00:15:16.559 also caught caught by surprise, right, And so we all, I think 214 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:20.919 think now that there needs to be sensible regulation around this space, and it's 215 00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:26.480 going to take stuff like that, how to make the customer onboarding experience easier, 216 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.879 right, like open your wallet and attach your wallet to like what No, 217 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:33.000 Like, I'm not going to I'm not going to do that. I 218 00:15:33.000 --> 00:15:39.320 mean we were, you know, I mean it's it's it's it's hard. 219 00:15:39.480 --> 00:15:46.399 And then the regulatory and then the kind of mass adoption comes because people you 220 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:50.159 know are doing it and you're feeling a little bit left behind. And then 221 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:52.360 also you have to see, like, what is the point of this, 222 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.440 How can it make me make my life easier? In addition to just being 223 00:15:56.480 --> 00:16:00.240 an asset to hold, you know, number go up kind of not enough 224 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:06.639 for this to be really a widespread mainstream use case. And you know, 225 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.240 these guys did not help us, I will say, right like, they 226 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.399 really set it back. People are still head down and building. But this, 227 00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:15.679 I mean my aunt for example, I hate to pick on my aunt, 228 00:16:15.720 --> 00:16:21.200 and plus everybody always says my aunt, but this literally was my aunt. 229 00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:22.840 She said, are you still in crypto? I thought they arrested that 230 00:16:22.840 --> 00:16:27.879 guy, you know, like you know, I mean that stuff just does 231 00:16:27.960 --> 00:16:30.639 not help, right, So do I have a time frame? No, 232 00:16:30.799 --> 00:16:36.080 But I mean when I look at it as I just feel like we're like 233 00:16:37.039 --> 00:16:42.519 going marching forward and it's inevitable. I mean, it's just too good of 234 00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:48.120 a technology and Algorham blockchain in particular is going to be at the forefront of 235 00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:53.360 this widespread adoption because we are just it's built in a way that can handle 236 00:16:53.519 --> 00:16:59.279 these use cases at scale. Right, we are all about scale. If 237 00:16:59.320 --> 00:17:03.000 you can do a really clever pilot, like who cares, Nobody cares about 238 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:06.519 your pilot, Nobody cares if you can't scale that thing. You know, 239 00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.079 that's that's cute. And you know last year or two years ago you probably 240 00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:15.000 got to get a little price bump out of something like that little vaporware announcement. 241 00:17:15.160 --> 00:17:18.839 Tried and true method in crypto and great, but like, that's not 242 00:17:18.920 --> 00:17:22.240 how you that's not how you survive for the next five years, ten years, 243 00:17:22.240 --> 00:17:25.559 that's not how you succeed in the next one. That's not who's going 244 00:17:25.640 --> 00:17:27.480 to be around in the next five and ten years, right, right, 245 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:32.079 So let's talk a bit about the algraand blockchain. You gave a bit of 246 00:17:32.119 --> 00:17:36.039 a preview there. Tell us about what makes it unique from other blockchains for 247 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:38.759 folks who don't know. Obviously I know, but maybe some of my listeners, 248 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:42.000 but I'm thinking about the newbie who's coming in and like, what's Algorand 249 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:49.599 yeah, So Algrin is a second generation blockchain. It's very fast, it 250 00:17:49.640 --> 00:17:55.799 has a tremendous transaction through boots at just ten thousand transactions per second. It 251 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.440 is a very light environmental footprint, and it has very low fees. So 252 00:18:00.880 --> 00:18:06.240 this idea of gas fees doesn't really exist. It's point zero zero one algo 253 00:18:06.279 --> 00:18:12.160 to do a transaction, and all of that comes from a consensus mechanism that 254 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:18.960 our founder, Sylvia McAuley, he's an MIT professor he won the Touring Award 255 00:18:18.119 --> 00:18:23.880 in Computer Science, and he not for nothing, by the way, invented 256 00:18:25.079 --> 00:18:29.480 a couple of primitives that are very important for in cryptography. So he did 257 00:18:29.480 --> 00:18:32.839 not have the idea of attaching money to any of this, but a couple 258 00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:37.759 of primitives that are very important in the crypto ecosystem. More broadly, zero 259 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:44.799 knowledge proofs, verifiable men functions, and you know, in a blockchain, 260 00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:51.480 the juice all comes from the consensus mechanism, and he invented a very elegant 261 00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:59.720 consensus mechanism, and that consensus mechanism it's called the Byzantine fault tolerant consensus mechanism. 262 00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:04.480 Problem with those is typically is that they don't scale very well because everybody 263 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:07.519 has to come to an agreement, even if there's some The idea is that 264 00:19:07.559 --> 00:19:11.119 everybody can come to an agreement, even if there's some bad actors. The 265 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:15.759 point is the everybody, though, can't be like a million everybody's They can't 266 00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.480 be like a million nodes because it just doesn't work. It can't scale and 267 00:19:18.519 --> 00:19:22.039 be fast if they all have to come to an agreement. So we have 268 00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.400 this very clever idea, which is that you could have a lot of nodes 269 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:32.839 and sample among them in sort of a thousand person committees, a thousand you 270 00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:37.519 know, kind of account committees, and those committees could come to an agreement, 271 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:44.200 and that way you could be very fast and scale. But you could 272 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:48.640 also have a decentralized approach. So it's like decentralized because you're picking for many 273 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:52.960 of them, and it's scalable because you're only picking a few to come to 274 00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:59.240 this. And this approach means that when you make a transaction and the committee 275 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:03.559 kind of decides immediately, you are instantly final. You're instantly final. And 276 00:20:03.640 --> 00:20:08.440 so as you know, this is maybe a little technical for some of some 277 00:20:08.519 --> 00:20:18.279 in the audience perhaps, but blockchains typically they gather up transactions like in the 278 00:20:18.319 --> 00:20:22.039 ether, and then they kind of fight to append the transactions, and if 279 00:20:22.039 --> 00:20:26.200 there's a tie, it's possible for a number of minutes or even up to 280 00:20:26.240 --> 00:20:30.359 an hour, two versions of the blockchain can exist, not forever, but 281 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:34.480 just for a little And these little softworks happen a lot, and then when 282 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:37.400 the winner is chosen, the other transactions kind of fall away, and so 283 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.160 you end up with one, you know, kind of very very pristine list 284 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.400 of transactions. Well, again, that works in most cases. But if 285 00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.920 you're in a traditional financial thing, and imagine a stable coin which for even 286 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:57.279 a nanosecond exists on two different states of the world, even for a minute, 287 00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:06.880 that can't exist. And so we built a chain. We you know, 288 00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:11.319 the Royal We built a chain, and the most important thing about it 289 00:21:11.359 --> 00:21:17.599 is that these transactions are final. But the fact that their final instantly comes 290 00:21:17.640 --> 00:21:21.440 out of the things that I told you about before, this consensus mechanism that 291 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:26.480 we have. That consensus mechanism also drives the scalability and the low cost and 292 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:30.839 the kind of it's not a heavy it's not a heavy protocol. Other blockchains 293 00:21:30.839 --> 00:21:36.200 can be very fast, but they're very heavy they require enterprise grade software. 294 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.559 We're a very light protocol, you know. So for example, when we 295 00:21:41.599 --> 00:21:45.119 started, you could run a node with a Raspberry pot. Now you need 296 00:21:45.160 --> 00:21:48.119 a more performance laptop, high en laptop because we're a very performant chain now. 297 00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:53.119 But if I can just you know, just to summarize the picture of 298 00:21:53.799 --> 00:21:59.039 it, is that the quality of our consensus mechanism enables us to make some 299 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:04.319 claims that other blockchains can't make. Yeah. Absolutely, And can you tell 300 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.880 us a bit about some of the use cases you're targeting. Is it like 301 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:14.640 tokenization and DeFi whatever it may be, and maybe highlights of some of the 302 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.880 things that our projects are being built. Hi, everyone part in the interruption. 303 00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:22.000 I'm Tony Edward, the founder and host of the Thinking Crypto podcast. 304 00:22:22.359 --> 00:22:25.359 I have a you favor to ask you. If you haven't subscribed as yet 305 00:22:25.400 --> 00:22:29.480 on YouTube or the podcast platforms, hit that subscribe button, hit the thumbs 306 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:33.920 up button, hit the notification bell on the YouTube platform and on Spotify or 307 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.559 Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, please leave a five style rating and 308 00:22:37.599 --> 00:22:41.799 review. It supports the podcast. It allows me to bring great quality content 309 00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:44.480 to you. Thank you for your support, and I'll let you get back 310 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:51.200 to the content. Yeah, I mean targeting is a little bit of a 311 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:56.240 strong word to use for what a foundation in a blockchain does. So we 312 00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:59.680 don't get up in the morning, and you know, I mean it's not 313 00:22:59.720 --> 00:23:02.599 like our community really listens to us, you know. Anyway, they do 314 00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:07.079 what they want our community, right. Our job is to make it so 315 00:23:07.160 --> 00:23:11.640 that anybody that wants to build anything has a good shot at it. So 316 00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:15.119 we are much more of an enabler than we are a director of things, 317 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.519 you know. I think of us as like planet Algorth. Plan an Algorth 318 00:23:19.640 --> 00:23:23.160 is not as big as planet Ethereum, but it is an awesome planet. 319 00:23:23.279 --> 00:23:30.440 Like the airs clean, the lakes are good, the trains run really fast, 320 00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:33.839 they run on time. You know when I don't know if I can 321 00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:37.720 do an instant finality analogy, but you know when you go someplace, you're 322 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:41.200 instantly there, like it's an awesome planet. It's like the best planet. 323 00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:45.119 And the job of the Foundation is to make sure that everybody that's building there 324 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:51.000 has could access to electricity and nicely paved roads and you know all of that. 325 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:57.519 So we are we are about embracing all of our builders and helping them 326 00:23:57.759 --> 00:24:07.920 succeed, right, that's our job. However, our builders tend to pick 327 00:24:07.119 --> 00:24:11.759 us because they want to build things at scale, and it's very interesting. 328 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:17.400 Now we make it super easy because in the beginning especially, it was not 329 00:24:17.559 --> 00:24:22.400 a pleasant blockchain to build on until our CTO, John Woods came and he 330 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:26.359 was like, yeah, this technology is unbelievable, but nobody can use it. 331 00:24:26.359 --> 00:24:29.279 It's a pain in the act us And he, you know, on 332 00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:32.799 his very first agendity he's been working he and his team and his our head 333 00:24:32.839 --> 00:24:37.359 of product Alessandro have been working very hard on this to bring a good developer 334 00:24:37.400 --> 00:24:45.440 experience with an algo kit developer kind of environment and a fully Python environment build 335 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.799 together with our friends at maker x. But in the beginning, my point 336 00:24:48.839 --> 00:24:52.519 is, in the beginning this thing was not fun to build on, not 337 00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:56.119 fun, but still we got a lot of builders because those builders who looked 338 00:24:56.119 --> 00:25:02.440 around and they said, you know, on other chains sort of your success 339 00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:07.079 is your demise because when you start getting the scale, the blockchain kind of 340 00:25:07.119 --> 00:25:11.400 can't handle it. And the Algoram blockchain said, look, you know, 341 00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:14.319 you've got to be very efficient with your code and you have to let it 342 00:25:14.359 --> 00:25:18.519 on. Made it in kind of like unfun in certain ways, but always 343 00:25:18.720 --> 00:25:22.559 able to help you. You know, you can scale what you need to 344 00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:27.720 what you need to do on algorand and so we tend to select self select, 345 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:33.359 I would say, companies that are trying to work on real world problems 346 00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:37.079 at scale. Sure. Now, there have been reports over the years that 347 00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:44.160 different countries have been testing Central Bank Digital currency CBDCs and algrad I know a 348 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:45.920 lot of these things are under NDAs and so forth, But what can you 349 00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:52.759 tell us maybe number of countries or anybody who's looking to go into production soon. 350 00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:56.640 What can you tell us there? Yeah, so I will say that 351 00:25:56.680 --> 00:26:03.240 when I heard this rumor two when I came these are so I am in 352 00:26:03.319 --> 00:26:07.119 charge, in charge of I'm associated with the public chain. You know that 353 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:11.319 Algorand findation is about the public chain. And if you're going to build a 354 00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:15.200 central bank digital currency, you are not going to build that on a public 355 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.440 chain. So I can talk myself blue telling people this, It is not 356 00:26:18.480 --> 00:26:23.119 about Algorand or Ethereum or whatever. No central bank is going to put their 357 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:29.160 national currency on a public blockchain. It's not going to happen. And so, 358 00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:34.119 however, I heard that there were things happening at now they call themselves 359 00:26:34.160 --> 00:26:38.880 now algran Technologies, with some side chains that they might have been talking to 360 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:42.480 some central banks about. I will say though that since I have been here, 361 00:26:42.559 --> 00:26:48.119 I have not heard of any of that happening. So I think maybe 362 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:51.599 in the beginning, first couple of years, I'm a couple of years late, 363 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:55.640 first couple of years, I think they did have a number of different 364 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:59.759 conversations under NDAs. But as far as I know, and I do not 365 00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:03.359 know everything, but as far as I know, nothing is really going on 366 00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.759 over there in that regard. Now, there's a lot of stuff going on, 367 00:27:07.079 --> 00:27:11.440 you know, with this incubator that the Bank Italia is having, but 368 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.319 that's not CBD stuff that's kind of atomic swaps for bond settlements on chain, 369 00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:18.519 and there are a number of other things, but that's very much now in 370 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:25.200 a kind of an incubator process. So I know that's not a very satisfactory 371 00:27:25.240 --> 00:27:29.839 answer, but I don't think there's anything happening. I don't think anything really 372 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.240 did happen that got too far. Nothing has happened since I've been here that 373 00:27:34.359 --> 00:27:37.599 I know about, and certainly nothing has happened that the Foundation has ever been 374 00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:45.200 involved with, because it's just not it's like it's just not going to happen. 375 00:27:45.279 --> 00:27:48.119 It's not going to happen, right, No great point that they're not 376 00:27:48.160 --> 00:27:51.039 going to put it on a public blockchain. If it is, it's going 377 00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:55.039 to be some private side chain, right, Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. 378 00:27:55.279 --> 00:27:59.000 Now, there was news of an investment in HASAPEI from saying that, 379 00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:03.079 right, tell us that and how you're going to be working together. Oh 380 00:28:03.119 --> 00:28:07.359 so saw pay is a you know, this is one that this is the 381 00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:08.599 word that kept coming to my mind when I was trying to think of mpay 382 00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:15.759 said earlier in the program. Esapey is a mobile payments platform that works now 383 00:28:15.839 --> 00:28:22.960 in Afghanistan. So the founders in Afghani gentleman and he worked with a guy 384 00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:26.920 who is I think he's a co founder actually is worked in Mercy Corps for 385 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:30.720 a long time on payments and fintech type issues. They founded this company together 386 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:37.880 and they are now doing all of the in it's like mobile money payment and 387 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:41.400 if you don't and if you have a if you don't have a smartphone, 388 00:28:41.440 --> 00:28:45.839 you get a little card with a QR code and the the you can hold 389 00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:49.519 up your card and then the merchant will scan it and then it sends you 390 00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:53.880 a note on your flip phone to take money out of your account. And 391 00:28:55.079 --> 00:29:00.559 so they are now doing I think they have banked eighty five percent of the 392 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:06.519 Afghan unbanked Afghanis. They have done one point two million I think electricity bill 393 00:29:06.599 --> 00:29:11.359 payments since they've kind of gotten going. And they all of the record keeping 394 00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:15.359 is done on the Algorand blockchain for this, for all of these payments, 395 00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.960 and they have them. All of the NGOs use these guys. I mean, 396 00:29:18.960 --> 00:29:23.640 they are just like everywhere in Afghanistan. So we made a half a 397 00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:27.680 million dollar investment in them, and we are so excited about these guys. 398 00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:32.720 Now here's a thing about this though. Okay, So anyway, so the 399 00:29:32.720 --> 00:29:36.480 reason that they use Algoran that they like is that because they have customers, 400 00:29:36.759 --> 00:29:41.200 especially these NGOs and especially because of the country that they work in. These 401 00:29:41.359 --> 00:29:45.359 NGOs want to know where this money is going. And esabe, I mean, 402 00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:49.599 they're a small organizations. They don't want to be like doing audits and 403 00:29:49.640 --> 00:29:53.640 going through the books and you know, having to like take time and do 404 00:29:53.720 --> 00:29:56.880 all that stuff. With these NGOs, what they do is they say, 405 00:29:56.920 --> 00:30:00.400 look on the blockchain, it's right here. You can see every transaction, 406 00:30:00.559 --> 00:30:04.119 everything that happened, everything that was made. It's all very here. Have 407 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.920 added to your audit. It's very easy, and they it saves them so 408 00:30:08.039 --> 00:30:12.119 much time and it adds so much credibility to them because they are in a 409 00:30:12.359 --> 00:30:18.720 region where credibility is very hard to come by, right, and so it's 410 00:30:18.319 --> 00:30:26.920 a very impactful and very very meaningful partnership. So however, okay, so 411 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:30.440 would they want to expand? Okay, where do they want to expand? 412 00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:40.079 They want to expand like Syria, refugee camps, like all of these, 413 00:30:40.160 --> 00:30:45.039 like really hard hard Libya, I think is another one that they're looking at. 414 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.319 You look at their roadmap and you think, okay, all right. 415 00:30:48.359 --> 00:30:53.319 You know, they're like picking the absolute hardest possible thing that you can possibly 416 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:57.440 do. And so I love them. I love them for that. I 417 00:30:57.480 --> 00:31:03.559 love them for that. They are really. Yeah, they've got they've got 418 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:07.039 a pipeline of like the their next four countries are like the four hardest countries 419 00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.279 you can possibly do business with, and they're ready to go in twenty twenty 420 00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:14.480 four, and we're ready to We're right there with them. In fact, 421 00:31:14.519 --> 00:31:17.839 our head of our head of impact, Matt Keller, sent me a note 422 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:19.559 just a couple of days ago saying, hey, I want to start up. 423 00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:25.000 We're starting up a working group for with a bunch of NGOs and UN 424 00:31:25.079 --> 00:31:30.359 agencies and you know, representatives working in these like four crazy ass countries. 425 00:31:30.359 --> 00:31:36.240 And I was like, okay, go for knock yourself out. Good luck. 426 00:31:36.319 --> 00:31:41.359 Guys, hard stuff hard hard, you know, but they're they're they're 427 00:31:41.039 --> 00:31:45.079 yeah, those guys are unbelievable. You should have them on. You should 428 00:31:45.160 --> 00:31:47.400 have them on. I mean they really, I mean, this is where 429 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:49.359 the rubber hits the road on this kind of stuff. They're very successful and 430 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:52.079 they have a very hard job ahead of them. Yeah, I would love 431 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:57.039 an introduction, get them on, that'd be great. Yeah. Now, 432 00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:01.759 obviously you guys got a lot going on. Are there any Web three projects 433 00:32:01.759 --> 00:32:06.440 you want to highlight or any partners you want to highlight that you know, 434 00:32:06.519 --> 00:32:10.079 maybe you're doing something interesting or cool. Yeah. You know, you get 435 00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:13.519 me in a lot of trouble by asking me questions like this, of course, 436 00:32:13.519 --> 00:32:15.440 because you know the podcast is only an hour long, right, and 437 00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:19.079 so you know, then I get like, d MS, how come you 438 00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:22.799 don't you know? No, no, no. So so I have a 439 00:32:22.799 --> 00:32:28.279 couple of my usual suspects, but maybe i'll highlight a couple that I don't 440 00:32:28.359 --> 00:32:34.200 talk about as much. But you know, one is an organization called lab 441 00:32:34.279 --> 00:32:38.839 Trace. They are I read a very scary article about I think it was 442 00:32:38.839 --> 00:32:44.039 in the Boston Globe that about bring them in. I don't know which I 443 00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:45.920 don't think. I think it was Brigham and Women's, but I apologize bringing 444 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:54.720 Women's if it was not you. But they were doctoring images to show differences 445 00:32:54.759 --> 00:33:00.880 in like tumor size. On the research end. This is a very very 446 00:33:00.880 --> 00:33:06.839 famous research hospital, and a couple of people were accused allegedly of doctoring these 447 00:33:06.880 --> 00:33:10.400 images. Well, it turns out that when you do an MRI and you 448 00:33:10.480 --> 00:33:16.960 are trying to do a trial of a drug, you do an MRI beforehand, 449 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.000 and you do an MRI after a couple of months to see if the 450 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:27.920 drug has worked on this like tumor. Say, but I am not a 451 00:33:27.960 --> 00:33:30.160 medical professional, so this might not be like one hundred percent right what I'm 452 00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:37.640 about to say, But the tumor will shrink immediately, typically with almost any 453 00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:40.119 medication, because it's like getting in there. The question is, though, 454 00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:46.160 does it last or does it immediately grow back big again. So the way 455 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:52.640 to fudge how well your medication is doing is if you take the MRI immediately 456 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:58.240 afterwards, where you know you get a pretty good reading, but claim that 457 00:33:58.279 --> 00:34:01.640 the reading was a couple of months afterwards. So the guys at lab Trace 458 00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:07.119 were like, I kind of feel like a blockchain, but the time stamp 459 00:34:07.319 --> 00:34:09.480 on it might be a good way to approach this thing. So they went 460 00:34:09.559 --> 00:34:13.800 to UH and of course they need the very best blockchain to do this, 461 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:17.519 so they are on Algorm. So they go they went to Siemens, who's 462 00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:22.039 like the world's biggest maker of these MRI machines, and it is built into 463 00:34:22.079 --> 00:34:27.760 the machine, so there's no way that anybody can do anything. This MRI 464 00:34:27.960 --> 00:34:30.000 comes out, the Semens machine stamps it, they send it to the Algorim 465 00:34:30.079 --> 00:34:34.960 blockchain. It's there, not the MRI. Don't anybody worry, like not 466 00:34:35.239 --> 00:34:37.719 like the whole world cannot read your MRI. But the time stamp of this 467 00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:45.519 thing is right there. And so this to me really shows a way of 468 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:50.559 the blockchain being able to like it is it is, you know, as 469 00:34:50.599 --> 00:34:53.320 Michael Casey kind of famously said in his first book, it's the truth machine, 470 00:34:53.760 --> 00:34:57.239 right like, this is the truth of what happened. This is where 471 00:34:57.239 --> 00:35:01.440 the MRI took place, and nobody can dispute that now, right. So, 472 00:35:01.440 --> 00:35:06.920 so those kinds of things were pretty excited. And Agrotoken is another another 473 00:35:07.559 --> 00:35:10.280 company that I don't spend as much time. I haven't talked about very much 474 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:16.440 recently, but this is a commodities back token that enables a farmer to start 475 00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:22.800 getting access to the liquidity around the harvest before the harvest takes place. And 476 00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.039 so if they're so, if you you know, plant your seeds in May 477 00:35:27.119 --> 00:35:32.599 and your harvest is in October. Why can't you? But you need to 478 00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.760 invest in you know, irrigation system, you know ahead of time. You 479 00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:39.159 don't want to wait till October because then it's winter and then like you don't 480 00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:43.440 use your irrigation system as much anymore. So you can you can sell these 481 00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:46.000 tokens now and be able to monetize your future. Now, of course you 482 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:49.880 can do that by selling futures, right, but then you have to take 483 00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:53.719 a guess on the future price and you have to have well functioning market that 484 00:35:53.840 --> 00:35:59.480 far out in advance. And this is just a much simpler way to to 485 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:02.239 to do that. Now, a couple that I talk about all the time, 486 00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:06.719 which I will mention again travel X. I mean these guys, do 487 00:36:06.760 --> 00:36:10.320 you know about travel X? Yeah? Yeah, So these guys they created 488 00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.519 a market where one does not exist, secondary market for airline sales. Unbelievable, 489 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:20.199 unbelievable company. And we get this like huge spike in transaction every time 490 00:36:20.199 --> 00:36:23.159 when they sign a new airline. So they signed their second airline in December, 491 00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:25.599 and our transaction volume just like kind of went through the roof. So 492 00:36:25.880 --> 00:36:31.199 we are really we're excited about those guys. We have we have one hundred 493 00:36:31.199 --> 00:36:37.320 and sixty six million transactions this month. That is ahead of Near Ethereum, 494 00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:43.519 Avalanche, Solana, everybody like we are cruising on transactions. World Chess also 495 00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:47.519 giving us a lot of transactions. Aura the oor coin of course, giving 496 00:36:47.559 --> 00:36:52.360 us a lot of transactions. Can't can't forget our or coin, which is 497 00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:55.760 cool actually the aor coin, because it is a proof of it. You 498 00:36:55.840 --> 00:37:00.119 have to you have to juice these oranges, and to do that you get 499 00:37:00.119 --> 00:37:04.239 these coins. But it's like a kind of a proof of work mechanism on 500 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.239 a pure proof of stake blockchain. So I do think that's a very clever, 501 00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.239 very clever thing that I that I that I think is cool. And 502 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:14.840 we have a lot in prop tech, a couple of different companies working in 503 00:37:14.880 --> 00:37:20.639 prop tech so that you can you can invest in very fine amounts of alternative 504 00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:27.719 assets, so control alt music, a note music, not registries, but 505 00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:32.360 music catalogs, rental properties. This is all as you know, real world 506 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:37.719 asset tokenization, right, and we offer that in a number of different areas. 507 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:40.559 Slice those babies up, make a more liquid market, make it so 508 00:37:40.599 --> 00:37:45.880 that households can invest in them, and you know, lofty AI. You 509 00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:47.800 get paid daily because this is Web three, you have to wait till the 510 00:37:47.840 --> 00:37:51.079 end of the month. They get your rental you know income. You get 511 00:37:51.079 --> 00:37:55.960 your rental income every every day, and you you are as a part of 512 00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:00.679 a dow. They have these dows, these uh you know, government organization's 513 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.360 property by property by property, and they're all like, I mean, they 514 00:38:04.400 --> 00:38:07.199 all got together. Lofty just posted this on social like a week ago. 515 00:38:08.280 --> 00:38:12.519 They want, they got together and like, didn't this woman had just I 516 00:38:12.559 --> 00:38:15.119 think she just had a baby, or her pet had just died, or 517 00:38:15.119 --> 00:38:16.800 something had happened to this woman, And so they all voted not to raise 518 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:22.079 this woman's rent because she had she was going through some financial hardship, right, 519 00:38:22.119 --> 00:38:24.639 So like, yeah, it's very it's very power to the people's stuff, 520 00:38:24.840 --> 00:38:29.280 you know. It's cool. Yeah, I mean it's exciting. And 521 00:38:29.320 --> 00:38:32.000 you know what you were mentioning about the uh, the farmers and the harvest 522 00:38:32.079 --> 00:38:37.119 and tokenizing that I was just thinking about, you know, Larry Fink, 523 00:38:37.679 --> 00:38:45.199 you know recently saying tokenization is the future of finance and you're gonna have commodities 524 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:49.360 and securities and all types of assets tokenized on the blockchain. And as you 525 00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:57.159 mentioned, fractionalization true glob global markets, secondary markets. What is your outlook 526 00:38:57.239 --> 00:39:02.400 for tokenization and are you expecting that to ramp up now that the institutions are 527 00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:08.920 paying attention and realize this is the future one hundred percent what it? Tokenization 528 00:39:09.079 --> 00:39:12.199 is not hard, though, I will say, right, so, it's 529 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.840 not about the technology being ready. It is about the money piece, I 530 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:22.440 would say. And so you the thing about tokenization that you really want to 531 00:39:22.480 --> 00:39:25.480 have happen is you want it to be an atomic swap with money, so 532 00:39:25.519 --> 00:39:29.360 that you know the thing trad so that clearing equal settlement. This is the 533 00:39:29.440 --> 00:39:31.880 thing about Web three clearing equal settlement. You have to wait for swift. 534 00:39:31.960 --> 00:39:35.639 You don't have to you know, do all of this settle at the end 535 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:38.760 of the day or t plus two or whatever it is, like you we 536 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:44.079 have atomic swaps at the layer one layer. By the way, on algorithm, 537 00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.239 it's in the layer one atomic swaps, which if you are geeky, 538 00:39:46.400 --> 00:39:52.159 you care about that, and you're quite impressed by that, and weh but 539 00:39:52.440 --> 00:39:55.880 it's the money piece that needs to kind of be solved. Now, if 540 00:39:55.920 --> 00:40:00.119 there were central bank digital currencies, that money piece and that atomic swap could 541 00:40:00.119 --> 00:40:05.280 happen no problem at all if there are stable coins, though there's always going 542 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:07.480 to be this kind of question about at the time of your swap, is 543 00:40:07.480 --> 00:40:10.360 that stable coin is going to be worth the fiat that it's peg to or 544 00:40:10.400 --> 00:40:13.440 not. There will always be a little bit of that question, so it's 545 00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:17.639 a little trickier to do. So we uh, but we're pretty excited about 546 00:40:19.440 --> 00:40:22.679 the idea of digital money digital euro, not a not a stable coin, 547 00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:27.800 but digital money on the blockchain with Quantos, for example, has a digital 548 00:40:27.840 --> 00:40:32.199 euro regulated by the Dutch Central mic on Algoran and so they can do you 549 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:37.719 know, atomic swaps to their hearts content with tokenized assets. And yeah, 550 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.000 we're we are expecting some big news out of that space for sure. For 551 00:40:43.119 --> 00:40:49.519 sure, I want to talk about regulations, and I know algorand the algo 552 00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.039 token has been mentioned in different lawsuits against the industry, like coin based bit 553 00:40:52.079 --> 00:40:59.559 tricks and so forth, But you're not I not Yeah, yeah, I 554 00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:02.440 mean obviously I'll go and a bunch of other tokens, right, it's not 555 00:41:02.519 --> 00:41:07.960 just al Go, But we're in a battle right now with regulator, even 556 00:41:08.119 --> 00:41:14.679 Chair Gencer who's once talked really highly of algorand, but now it seems to 557 00:41:14.719 --> 00:41:19.960 be attacking the industry in a certain manner. What are your thoughts on that 558 00:41:20.039 --> 00:41:23.559 and could we see crypto regulations this year? Well, my first thought is 559 00:41:23.599 --> 00:41:27.960 like, why are we Why did we have to start our name with an 560 00:41:28.000 --> 00:41:30.920 A, because we're always like listed first on these kinds of things. It's 561 00:41:30.039 --> 00:41:35.400 like, you know, you know, the worst, honestly was when a 562 00:41:35.559 --> 00:41:37.400 Tara Luna blew up because it was an algorithmic stable coin. I mean, 563 00:41:37.400 --> 00:41:43.400 I must have spent six months explaining that Algorand was not an algorithmic stable coin. 564 00:41:43.639 --> 00:41:45.920 You know, this was like a little bit of bud that I was 565 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:51.039 not expecting to have to have to kind of fight against. But yeah, 566 00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:55.000 we do not appreciate the fact that, you know, we're just like walking 567 00:41:55.039 --> 00:41:59.800 down the sidewalk mining your own business and we get shot with a stray bullet 568 00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:04.679 and some kind of like gang street fight that not between us, has nothing 569 00:42:04.719 --> 00:42:07.480 really to do with us, and like a stray bullet comes over and kind 570 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:12.039 of hits us. It's like, not not something that I appreciate. Honestly, 571 00:42:12.599 --> 00:42:15.320 we you know, we do not believe that we're security and anyway, 572 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:17.840 we don't issue these tokens in the United States anyway, we never have, 573 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:22.559 so we stay we are a very we're Singapore based company. We stay very 574 00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:29.159 clear of the US regulatory perimeter. But we think we're a utility token, 575 00:42:29.239 --> 00:42:32.239 not a not a security and I think that that's pretty clear if you look 576 00:42:32.280 --> 00:42:37.480 at kind of the stuff that we're involved in. Do I think we will 577 00:42:37.559 --> 00:42:44.599 have a sensible regulation in twenty twenty four. Don't get too mad at me, 578 00:42:44.679 --> 00:42:46.199 but no, I do not think so. I do not think not 579 00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:52.360 in the United States. I think what will happen is that jurisdictions that are 580 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:59.239 really thinking hard about this will continue to make progress. In the UAE, 581 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:05.679 for example, in Japan they just passed stayble coin legislation. You know, 582 00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:10.719 MICA in Europe has made some very important advances all of this stuff. Now. 583 00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:17.079 I will say though, that there are probably some very good second mover 584 00:43:17.159 --> 00:43:22.519 advantages to maybe waiting it out a little bit, and then if you do, 585 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:27.280 you can kind of see what's working other places. So what I'm hoping 586 00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.599 is that that process is actually taking place behind closed doors, that there is 587 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:34.840 a little bit of a wait and let's see and let's cherry pick from the 588 00:43:34.880 --> 00:43:39.440 best ideas. And I don't know if that's happening. But I hope that 589 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:43.199 it is happening. But do I really if I had tod, like if 590 00:43:43.199 --> 00:43:45.000 you put a gun to my temple and said, are we going to sen 591 00:43:45.039 --> 00:43:51.320 sensible crypto legislation? Now? One thing I will say, though, is 592 00:43:51.719 --> 00:43:54.880 I think we will. I think the chances of having legislation are better than 593 00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.880 the chances of having regulation. If I had to guess, Yeah, So 594 00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:02.079 I think, And I think some of these court cases have made it clear 595 00:44:02.199 --> 00:44:08.239 that the legislation is not clean enough for regulators to make decisions, and so 596 00:44:08.800 --> 00:44:15.679 some legislative authority needs to take place. And I hope that does happen, 597 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.599 but I don't, you know, And you know, it goes back to 598 00:44:19.760 --> 00:44:24.599 what we were talking about earlier in the interview of some of tradify and just 599 00:44:24.719 --> 00:44:30.920 the way the world has worked. This technology is so disruptive we're seeing almost 600 00:44:30.920 --> 00:44:34.760 an attack against it. And do you think there's a bit of that happening 601 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:38.360 where Look, the regulators are part of the government, obviously, and they're 602 00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:42.920 going to support the Treasury and support the FED, and support the big bangs 603 00:44:42.960 --> 00:44:46.800 that are working with them, and some of this is you know, we're 604 00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:51.400 going to slow you guys down as much as possible until we're able to catch 605 00:44:51.480 --> 00:44:54.159 up to it, because it almost seems that way. Maybe it isn't, 606 00:44:54.199 --> 00:44:58.400 but it just seems like that from optically, from looking from the outside. 607 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:01.039 You know, I don't know. I mean, I do not know what 608 00:45:01.199 --> 00:45:06.559 goes on in their heads necessarily at all. But I think it's just really 609 00:45:06.599 --> 00:45:09.559 really hard. I think it's just really hard. Like is this money? 610 00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:13.840 Is this an asset? Is this a commodity? Like, it's just hard 611 00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:16.719 to think about it. It's a shape shifter crypto, right, Like the 612 00:45:16.800 --> 00:45:20.360 thing is, it's the beauty of it is that it can be so many 613 00:45:20.440 --> 00:45:24.719 different things. It's so it's so fit for purpose, right, and so 614 00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:30.039 it's really hard. And you know the nineteen thirty three Act and the nineteen 615 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:32.559 thirty four Act, like nineteen thirty three and nineteen thirty four, like well 616 00:45:32.599 --> 00:45:37.280 didn't even have electronic exchanges at the time, right, Like it's hard, 617 00:45:37.480 --> 00:45:44.199 it's really hard. And I also think that people are embarrassed by what happened, 618 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:49.119 you know, with everything starting with Tara lunat a three AC to of 619 00:45:49.199 --> 00:45:53.719 course the FTX. Right, so you get a little PTSD if you're at 620 00:45:53.800 --> 00:45:57.719 least if I was a regulator, I'd be a little I have a little 621 00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.199 bit of PTSD about it. And I would also think, like if I 622 00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:04.000 do a really good job and I and I do this, and I go 623 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:06.599 out on a limb and it works great, I'm gonna get a pat on 624 00:46:06.639 --> 00:46:08.119 the back or whatever. But if I go out on a limb on this 625 00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:12.800 and I do something wrong, you know, I'm gonna get my name on 626 00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:15.920 the front page of the paper. It's going to be terrible for me. 627 00:46:15.000 --> 00:46:19.280 I'll lose my job. So there's just like people are. They're risk averse, 628 00:46:19.280 --> 00:46:22.719 they're regulators. I think they're like selling put options. They get a 629 00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:25.840 little bit of upside when things go right, but if things go wrong, 630 00:46:25.960 --> 00:46:32.320 they they have tremendous downside. And it's a risk profile that they that you 631 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:35.840 know, it's hard to it's hard to embrace. I would say, you 632 00:46:35.840 --> 00:46:38.159 know, more than I think there's like some conspiracy going on to like keep 633 00:46:38.199 --> 00:46:43.079 the industry down. I think I'm not. I'm not really a big conspiracy 634 00:46:43.119 --> 00:46:50.360 person. I'm much more it's like hard and it's reputationally risky. With that 635 00:46:50.440 --> 00:46:52.719 said, though, we see that there have been some victories in court. 636 00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:58.320 Gray scale of course winning and that opened up the big one ETF floodgates. 637 00:46:58.880 --> 00:47:01.840 What are your thoughts on the big one ETFs getting launch and how you know 638 00:47:01.920 --> 00:47:07.320 things have been going in the impact on the industry. Yeah, I mean, 639 00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:15.079 I think it's tremendously positive. Right. The people of prime investment years 640 00:47:15.119 --> 00:47:20.320 now, they listen to what their registered and investment advisors tell them to do. 641 00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:22.360 They're ri as, that's what they do. They have their money in 642 00:47:22.360 --> 00:47:25.920 investment accounts and they tell and they listen to their ri as tell them how 643 00:47:25.960 --> 00:47:30.519 to manage that money. And iri A ri i as buy ETFs. That's 644 00:47:30.559 --> 00:47:37.559 what they do. They buy ETFs. And now of the nine trillion dollars 645 00:47:37.559 --> 00:47:44.719 of money available of this type, they get maybe put a tiny little allocation 646 00:47:44.960 --> 00:47:47.719 to a digital acid ETF. It's all you need, you know, and 647 00:47:47.880 --> 00:47:52.599 you can see. And so I think structurally, I think it's a very 648 00:47:52.599 --> 00:48:00.199 good idea and I think structurally it it is bodes well for the industry and 649 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:06.440 it bodes well for for retirement diversification, which is of course very important. 650 00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.119 Right. So it's a win, it's a win win, And now you're 651 00:48:09.360 --> 00:48:13.559 you're hearing more talk about in ethereum ETF. I don't know if that will 652 00:48:13.559 --> 00:48:19.159 happen. And they're also this gets a bit technical, but they're not designed 653 00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:22.880 quite optimally yet, and so I think the next generation of ETFs will require 654 00:48:22.960 --> 00:48:29.679 a little bit more regular, a little more regulatory opening, I would say, 655 00:48:30.079 --> 00:48:35.199 but we'll be a little bit even easier for investment managers to kind of 656 00:48:35.239 --> 00:48:40.199 embrace and put together. But yeah, you know, well I'm waiting for 657 00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:45.320 the Algoran ETF to go live. I know, I know, I mean 658 00:48:45.679 --> 00:48:54.639 exactly exactly as Eth kicks off the all coins and yeah, yeah, yeah, 659 00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:59.119 we have plenty to do from now until then. Anyway, that's so 660 00:48:59.239 --> 00:49:01.480 we're we we have a lot to do and we're doing it for sure. 661 00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:06.119 So actually, before we hit the wrap up questions, what's on your twenty 662 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:08.159 twenty four rold map I you talk a lot about what you guys will work 663 00:49:08.199 --> 00:49:12.159 on, but anything else you want to highlight? Yeah, you know, 664 00:49:12.480 --> 00:49:15.360 look, there are things and if you are a member of our community, 665 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:17.480 you are well aware of all of this stuff that we're doing. So first 666 00:49:17.760 --> 00:49:22.800 and the most important thing is that we are paying for consensus, So we 667 00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:28.239 are going to incentivize you for maintaining this network. You play your role in 668 00:49:28.639 --> 00:49:32.119 maintaining the security of this network. By staking algos in a node, you 669 00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.760 will be compensated for that. This is a game changer for us, and 670 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:38.840 this is going to go live Q two, Q three this year, so 671 00:49:39.440 --> 00:49:45.039 everybody needs to strap in for that. I will want to participate in that 672 00:49:45.079 --> 00:49:50.480 hundred percent. I mean one hundred percent. This is like you. I 673 00:49:50.519 --> 00:49:55.360 love Sylvia McCauley dearly for the purest approach that he took, especially when it 674 00:49:55.440 --> 00:50:00.000 just didn't because we're so lightweight, you know, good citizen should. But 675 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:06.119 but now we are going to start compensating you if you uphold this network. 676 00:50:06.400 --> 00:50:12.559 Very important game changing kind of thing. Second, we have we have relay 677 00:50:12.639 --> 00:50:16.920 nodes now that ferret these messages back and forth among the participation nodes. And 678 00:50:16.960 --> 00:50:21.440 we are going to move from that kind of hub and spoke type model to 679 00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:27.400 a peer to peer model, so like a gossip net model, which will 680 00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.519 be more decentralized. And of course, like these things go together, right, 681 00:50:30.800 --> 00:50:32.639 the more you can incentivize these nodes, the more you have in your 682 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:37.599 gossip network, and the more quickly they can talk to each other, and 683 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:40.119 the more the centralized you get. So these are these are like the big 684 00:50:40.159 --> 00:50:45.239 things. But can I will you give me like two or three more minutes 685 00:50:45.239 --> 00:50:50.079 to talk about like the totally non sexy, hard work stuff that we're doing. 686 00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:54.000 Yeah, because I know like this stuff. Okay, So this is 687 00:50:54.039 --> 00:50:58.440 stuff that you know, it's a pain in the ass, pain in the 688 00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:02.599 next sorry for everybody to do. It matters so much though, right, 689 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:07.360 And we are just like banging our head against a wall trying to get this 690 00:51:07.400 --> 00:51:10.280 stuff done with our community, and it would say requires a big ask from 691 00:51:10.280 --> 00:51:16.559 our developers. But we had these cartographers. They're like the greatest, like 692 00:51:16.599 --> 00:51:20.920 some of the best cryptographers in the world. We lost them all. Amazon 693 00:51:21.000 --> 00:51:23.679 poached them all. So now they're working on like deep cryptography at Amazon. 694 00:51:23.800 --> 00:51:29.920 But anyway, they standards would come along and they would be like, yeah, 695 00:51:30.039 --> 00:51:32.280 not good enough for us. Right. So for example, like the 696 00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.639 passphrase is twenty four words. Everywhere it's twenty four wards except in ALAGRAMZ twenty 697 00:51:37.639 --> 00:51:40.519 five words, okay, because one more word is like makes it more secure, 698 00:51:40.639 --> 00:51:49.719 Okay, stuff like this. In other blockchains, you have a passphrase, 699 00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:53.079 a pneumonic and under that mnemonic you can have a number of accounts, 700 00:51:53.079 --> 00:51:57.559 as you know, multiple accounts, and under each account you could have multiple 701 00:51:57.599 --> 00:52:00.519 addresses. This is not a system that we have in Algorth. The system 702 00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:06.000 in Algoran is like we conflate this idea of an address in an account, 703 00:52:06.400 --> 00:52:10.079 and so this means that we can't participate in a lot of things easily. 704 00:52:10.480 --> 00:52:15.039 So for example, somebody that has an account with a bunch of ethereum addresses 705 00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:19.800 could add an Algorand address if we had the same twenty four words and we 706 00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:22.079 had the same kind of account structure. But they don't do that. And 707 00:52:22.119 --> 00:52:27.400 so we have been we as a community have been very inward looking, and 708 00:52:27.440 --> 00:52:30.519 we work, we build things for each other, but we have got to 709 00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:35.119 start building things according to the standards that everybody else is using so that we 710 00:52:35.159 --> 00:52:39.079 can be you know that we can play across all this in a multi chairing 711 00:52:39.119 --> 00:52:44.159 world, right. And this stuff is hard because making these changes is hard. 712 00:52:44.239 --> 00:52:46.400 So if you're like Paraola, for example, and you're going to move 713 00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.480 to this like more account based system, well then you've got to offer kind 714 00:52:50.480 --> 00:52:53.639 of the transact the address based and the account based at the same time. 715 00:52:54.079 --> 00:52:57.760 How are you going to do your ux. It's like this stuff is like 716 00:52:58.119 --> 00:53:01.679 really tricky in the big getting, but it has to be. It has 717 00:53:01.760 --> 00:53:05.719 to be done. The other thing that we have to do is tie real 718 00:53:05.760 --> 00:53:12.159 world identity to unchained digital identity, right, and if you don't do that, 719 00:53:12.239 --> 00:53:14.920 you can't get payments business. So we have people that we have payment 720 00:53:14.960 --> 00:53:17.159 company that want to use algorand they're like, of course we want to use 721 00:53:17.199 --> 00:53:21.079 you. Don't you have instant finality? You're fast, you do ten thousand 722 00:53:21.119 --> 00:53:27.760 trans ask for a second. But like, you can't. I can't hive 723 00:53:27.880 --> 00:53:32.039 off. I can't KYC at an account level. I can. I can 724 00:53:32.079 --> 00:53:35.400 just get your addresses. Well, by the way, don't your addresses have 725 00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:38.159 balances on them? I can't. My regulator is not going to let me 726 00:53:38.199 --> 00:53:42.920 make a payment and reveal your balance to whoever you make a payment to, 727 00:53:43.039 --> 00:53:44.840 Like, that's not a thing. I can't do that. I can't get 728 00:53:44.880 --> 00:53:47.840 that done. So we need to be able to wrap in a privacy wrapper. 729 00:53:49.320 --> 00:53:52.719 We have to be able to ky see you by attaching real world identity 730 00:53:52.719 --> 00:53:53.599 to on Chan identity. And I got to be able to put you in 731 00:53:53.639 --> 00:53:59.280 a little privacy bubble for my regulator so that I am not revealing information about 732 00:53:59.360 --> 00:54:00.320 payments. And you know, you guys get that done, and then we 733 00:54:00.360 --> 00:54:05.280 want to use algram but until we and I've got a list tony of like 734 00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.679 five of these things that are just like not sexy, not fun. But 735 00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:13.440 this is the job of the algor fination to fix these things. We are 736 00:54:13.719 --> 00:54:16.480 we are in the excuse elimination business is what we're in, really, not 737 00:54:16.519 --> 00:54:21.480 so much the picking sector's business. Right, it's hard to build on algorm 738 00:54:21.599 --> 00:54:23.639 boom, Let's make it easy to build on a grand We can't talk to 739 00:54:23.719 --> 00:54:27.599 other things, boom, Let's figure out why it is that we can't talk 740 00:54:27.639 --> 00:54:30.320 to other things like this. This is the this is the kind of thing 741 00:54:30.360 --> 00:54:34.440 we don't we're not listed on exchanges. We got to make sure we're listed 742 00:54:34.480 --> 00:54:37.000 on every exchange like this is the kind of stuff that we spend our time 743 00:54:37.119 --> 00:54:44.119 really really really focused on. Yeah, that absolutely makes sense, And I'm 744 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:46.639 excited for these updates, and I know it's a working progress. Things don't 745 00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:52.599 happen overnight. It takes time. And it sounds like Amazon's still some of 746 00:54:52.639 --> 00:55:00.199 here developers still some cryptographers are some braining at cryptographers. But our CTO is 747 00:55:00.639 --> 00:55:07.320 pretty and our chief architect they or they are not without knowledge of cryptography. 748 00:55:07.320 --> 00:55:09.000 So we're we're still in good shape, and of course we still have Solio, 749 00:55:09.159 --> 00:55:15.119 you know, of course, right, but they were like safety over 750 00:55:15.159 --> 00:55:16.280 everything, and oh, you know, we don't like it how they do 751 00:55:16.960 --> 00:55:21.760 over there at Ethereum. It's like, well, you know, that's great, 752 00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:24.400 except that you know, the Ethereum is setting the standard for the thing, 753 00:55:24.440 --> 00:55:28.079 and so we have to kind of so there's a little bit there was 754 00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:30.280 a little bit of that going going on. You know, I'm businesslike, 755 00:55:30.360 --> 00:55:35.480 and I would say they were. The foundation was not very business like when 756 00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:37.840 I when I got here, and so there was a lot of like purest 757 00:55:38.639 --> 00:55:43.920 let's go slow, Let's make sure you know the cryptography, you know all 758 00:55:43.960 --> 00:55:45.639 of this, and it's like hmmm, no, like, we gotta we 759 00:55:45.719 --> 00:55:47.760 got to play. We got a plan in the world, and we got 760 00:55:47.760 --> 00:55:51.800 to you know, people got to find plan an algorithm, and we gotta 761 00:55:51.840 --> 00:55:54.280 start, you know, taking taking over the universe, you know what I 762 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:58.079 mean? Yeah, for sure, all right. I got some wrap up 763 00:55:58.119 --> 00:56:01.199 questions here for you over time. First is, if you could create your 764 00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:07.960 own metaverse, what would the theme be Kindness? If you want to come 765 00:56:07.960 --> 00:56:12.239 into my metaverse, you better be kind, don't be loving. Accusations of 766 00:56:12.360 --> 00:56:15.719 people like on social media don't you know, pick fights in front of a 767 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:21.000 million people. Be nice to people, Assume that they have good intent. 768 00:56:21.559 --> 00:56:25.280 Assume maybe you don't have the full story of what's going on, and just 769 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:31.119 lead lead with being nice. It would be a very kind kind place out 770 00:56:31.159 --> 00:56:36.159 you kick you right out if you if you started being meet people. I 771 00:56:36.239 --> 00:56:40.800 got some rapid fire questions. Favorite food spot, a copy time that is 772 00:56:40.840 --> 00:56:45.440 on Greek, and a copy down. I will stand by that as the 773 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:50.000 vet by my my my Desert Island food. Yeah. Favorite musician or band. 774 00:56:52.519 --> 00:57:01.199 Favorite musician Bob Dylan and favorite band Yola Tengo. Favorite movie, Uh, 775 00:57:01.400 --> 00:57:05.360 Laurence of Arabia. I think all time, But you know there's others 776 00:57:05.400 --> 00:57:07.079 I like, like Rushmore, I like, I like a lot of movies, 777 00:57:07.079 --> 00:57:10.400 but maybe I think Laurence of Arabia. I haven't seen that movie in 778 00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:15.840 a while. It's a good movie. It holds up. Yeah. Favorite 779 00:57:15.840 --> 00:57:22.760 book, favorite book. I guess anything by Faulkner for sure, But recently 780 00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:25.480 if I go to like books that I start buying and I start giving my 781 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:31.960 friends, most recently it'd be James McBride books, Deacon King Kong, Good 782 00:57:32.039 --> 00:57:36.559 Lord Bird, Great Books. If I go back a little bit further. 783 00:57:36.639 --> 00:57:40.519 I was giving everybody the Martian Gentleman in Moscow. I was a little bit 784 00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:45.679 further back. City of Thieves, The Wonder Boys. These are books that 785 00:57:45.719 --> 00:57:51.960 i've just like, I've loved and but more recently read these These James McBride 786 00:57:51.960 --> 00:57:54.239 books are so good. He's such a good writer. They're funny, they're 787 00:57:54.239 --> 00:57:59.519 incredibly well written. That's awesome. And now I'll have to check some of 788 00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:01.280 those out. When you're not working at the foundation, what are you doing 789 00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:07.840 for fun as a hobby. You're past that. I am losing at tennis. 790 00:58:07.239 --> 00:58:12.239 I'm getting I'm getting my ass kicked at tennis. That's That's what I'm 791 00:58:12.239 --> 00:58:16.880 doing. Yeah, have my dogs and but yeah, mostly I'm failing at 792 00:58:16.920 --> 00:58:22.719 my I'm failing to get better at tennis. Uh well, Stacey, absolute 793 00:58:22.760 --> 00:58:25.599 pleasure of chatting with you. I am looking forward to the new updates around 794 00:58:25.599 --> 00:58:30.360 al Grad and certainly I'll have to talk to you guys offline about the staking 795 00:58:30.519 --> 00:58:36.039 component and earning off of that. Look you I'll hook you up, you 796 00:58:36.119 --> 00:58:39.599 know, I'll awesome, Okay, al Grad Foundation. Get this man a 797 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:44.920 pillow, Get this man a pillow. Awesome. Thank you, Stacy, 798 00:58:45.320 --> 00:59:01.800 Thank you so much, Johnny, I appreciate you. Things don't