Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song. We Welcome to Talking Point with Ray
Angeler, discussing the hot topics and answering your questions, Saturdays five to seven
pm on Adventist Radio London. It's talking Point, it's talking Point, it's
talking Point, it's talking Point conversations. You need to have. Good afternoon,
Good afternoon, and welcome to Talking Point. I hope you've all had
a really bless Sabbath today because I was coming in I see it's been actually
a really lovely sunny day, so the spring might actually be here. So
I to thank you all for joining us as we are about to go on
our discussion. I am joined as usual with my co hosts zen Ya g
in the house. Well actually, hi everyone, welcome, welcome to Talking
Point. And we've got Pedro somewhere up north as well. Halifax. That's
right, Halifax is up in downtown Halifax. Hi doing Pedro, I'm doing
good. Ocome everybody to the talking Point. Cool and today we've got some
other guests joining us as well, so we'll introduce them later. So so
thank you for joining us. As always, if you want to join in
the conversation, please do you would always want to hear your comments, so
you can either emailers at studio at Adventist dot Sorry, studio at Adventage Radio
dot London get my four Steve fuck In, or you can text us on
eight triple to eight, write hope and then space and then your message.
We'll be talking about siblings today and sibling relationships. If you didn't know,
it was National Siblings down the tenth of eight pul. I'm not sure if
that's the same in the UK actually, but in America and Canada it is.
But it popped up in a timeline of something and I thought, oh,
that's a really cool thing. Yes, it's really important. Many of
us have siblings, so we want to sort of recognize and find out a
little bit more about that now. Also this month it's Stress Awareness Month,
which I thought was also interesting as well, so we've cover a little bit
about stress. But I guess we're talking about siblings. Hopefully none of us
brothers sisters causes any stress, but hey, we'll have to wait and see.
So so yes, so that's what we're going to be talking about today.
Like I said, we have some guests and would introduce them shortly,
but how has your weeks been, Zenya and Pedro? My week's been good.
I ended up up not I don't think as far as you are,
Pedro. Somewhere I call Graham thum. Oh yeah, yes, first time
I've ever been. I do really need to explore more. Perhaps now the
weather is changing, that might just be the time for it. But I
celebrated the sixty fifth birthday party and it was just great to see everybody reunite.
Some peoples they haven't seen since Lockdown or pre Lockdown. So now that
we're opening up, you know, the time is right to just meet and
greet and catch up with everybody, and hopefully we will do a bit more
of that, because I think that's one of the lessons of Lockdown, isn't
it that we really ought to spend much more quality time with each other.
That's the mission. Cool see what happens. Yeah, yeah, no,
that's lovely. Oh that's cool. That's cool. It's so it's really important
to celebrate birthdays as much as I kind of kind of forgot mine last month,
but hey, it's important. Don't worry. I postponed it. That's
all I'm saying. It's over. Let it go, never going to celebrate
all year long a month ago. You know, the celebration can continue.
So yeah, oh yeah, So how was your week? And everything lovely?
Lovely? What about itself? Pedro and do not say your famous last
words. My week was actually I was actually on lockdown because too of my
kids had COVID. Okay, like they locked in their rooms and pretty much
it just worked, and then came home make sure they was okay, help
the wife and make sure we you know, tried to stay away from them
so that we didn't get it. Yeah, much better now made it a
little crazy because my wife goes into like clean out mode when the stuff like
that. So COVID still around, isn't it? Yeah yeah, yeah,
but it's still it's still really a thing. But I guess people are less
a lot more not maybe not the word casualist, a bit of the word,
but we're not quite. Yeah, we just kind of It's one of
those things. Now. Yeah, they need, like I told them,
they need to still kind of social, Like they have pictures of their friends
and they're like really right next to them or have their arm around them or
like stand in a real clothes and I'm like, y'all need the because they
definitely got it from school, because only the two from the same school got
it, so they definitely got it from school. So I was just like,
you know, you guys, gotta be more careful next time. But
they're doing better now they're over it, so good. That's good. Yeah,
that's good. Oh that's good. Well my week was My week was
well. It was okay. It's a bit up and down, you know,
busy with work as usual. One thing I did notice, now I
know we always as we're on talking point, one thing the British do very
well is talk about the weather. I noticed every time I went out to
drive it poured with rain. Like every single time I'd see like quite bright
and sunny and thing, oh we'll pop out. Soon as I stepped out,
it started raining. And even I drove down into London yesterday and it
was torrential rain and I was like, I didn't notice this on the on
the you know, when check the weather my weather app I'm like, and
it was just you know, it's dark, it was misty and foggy and
it was pouring down. I was just like, you know, sometimes you
just have to pray and please say God protect me, bless me and the
other drivers around me as well, because there are some crazy drivers out there
and some of the speeds I could see people going past. I'm like,
really, there's so much surface water on the M twenty five. I was
just like, oh, dear. So I was quite pleased when I saw
the sunshine today and was just like, this is great. Maybe spring really
is here. I'm seeing enough spring flowers, the daffodilswers. Yeah, it
is. To be fair, it is April, so I guess those showers
are inevitable. But yeah, but aside from that, it was a you
know, it's fairly I was gonna say uneventful really, but yeah, just
it go so quickly here we are again, which is you know, that's
all good. That's sort of good to what you just said. I do
wonder about that because going to be in the US and even in Bermuda here,
the folks here, they they tailgate. It's poort rain and they're like
right on your backside. They're cutting you off the in and out of traffic
on the motorway, and I just is it like a culture thing? Is
it just something that they drive worse when it rains. Because I'm on the
road all day every day, and I just noticed that, like what you
just said, and I get road raide, so I'm like you, I
have to hold on to my Christianity because I'm like, I want to just
curse them out, and I'm just like, you know, I'm just holding
in, like Lord, please be with me, because I'm like, I
just want to do you know what, I don't understand. I don't know
if it's I don't know if it's necessarily a culture thing, but but I've
noticed and I guess I don't know because I just wonder whether it's similarly around
the country. I generally live in London, but having been out of London
a bit more, I don't see that kind of driving quite as much.
It's up here, but is Manchester, Liverpool? What if it's a It's
all over, but I don't know. It's just like a field. It's
everywhere. It's not just London. I don't know. I mean, people
just I guess it's one of maybe's of those things where people just don't think
of these things because you know, the surface water when you hit that,
and you're just like, actually, it's very easy to glide and what have
you, and you're just like, are you not seeing this? And maybe
they think they've got special time second backup, Like, you know, if
you're driving and you see a pole, the corpounds of the pole, you
need two seconds before you hit the pole, before you reached the pole to
give it. That'd be enough distance to stop. That's how I drive.
Yeah, not these folks. They, Yeah, I just wonder. I'm
just like, man, yeah, I just shake my head. I'm just
like, I'm really baffled by it because it's annoying. Yeah no, I
hate you. Yeah. So yeah, I don't get it myself. But
you know, praise God, we accidents. You brought it up. Yeah.
No, I'm just thankful for traveling mercies a lot of the time,
because you know, you're on the road and you're just like wow, you
know. Yeah, So it's a blessing to be here and to get from
A to B. So I can only be thankful for that. So I
guess let's get stuck in and we'll introduce our guests that we've got on so
far, a couple of when we've be joining us a bit later. So
we're going to be talking all things siblings. But as much as we love
to give our opinions and our thoughts on that, and obviously we've done we
do a little bit of research. We always like to have our experts on
here as well. So today we have got I guess who we haven't had
on for a little while. Actually, it's been a while since we've seen
you. So you've got Allison, who is actually Allison. I'm going to
let you introduce yourself and tell tell our listeners hopefully they will be aware of
you because I remember us from you know, back in the day. But
it's been a while since we've seen you. So Allison is a I'm gonna
say she's one of our resident practitioners. But please, yeah, tell us
a little bit about yourself. Alison. Remember hi everyone, my name's Alison.
I will call a psychotherapist and I write on relationships. I'm very passionate
about all things relationships. Yes, it's good to be back on talking points.
It's been a while, but yes, it's good to be back.
Thanks for having me. Welcome, lovely to see you, and yes,
looking forward to hear your words of expertise on our subject today and joining us.
I guess we're talking about siblings now. I have siblings, both Zenya
and Pedro do, so we can maybe hear a little bit about our experiences
too. But we've also got two brothers on I didn't I heard the names
before, and I didn't necessarily I know one of them to discover. It's
a small world, as they say. But we've got Andre and we've got
his brother Ruel, so he wants to go first. But okay, let's
go to Andre. Tell us a little bit about yourself, introduce yourself,
and yes, I had to our listeners for us. I'm good as from
everyone, so man names areas as just mentioned. I was born in barbadist
to My father was a principal when I was born. He became a pastor
later on. So I grew up in Barbadis and left Barbadas in my early
twenties to come to Europe and eventually made my rat in the UK. I
am a husband, father of three, love seeing a cappella music, love
playing badminton, loved playing volleyball. So if you want to get me engaged
me in any of those activities, I'm game anytime. Cool cool, Well,
I can testify with the singing. So now I've actually sang on a
couple of things with yourself. So yeah, oh good, oh good.
So we'll go to your thank you Andre gave it to your brother Ruel.
Yes, when that's right? Okay, cool? Cool, I re mind.
So I'm well, unlike Andrea, was born in Jamaica, but I
grew up in Barbados by the time I was born, and my dad was
already a pastor, So I got that's a that's an interesting amic. I
moved to the officially move to the UK ten my husband as well. I
am a graphic designer, photographer, and I love to sing as well,
a cappella, choral music, the works. Yeah, that's that's pretty much
me. Okay, great, So at the two of you, who's I'm
looking at the both of you? Can the listeners out there their goods on
zoom? So I see their faces? I know I am. I going
to put my foot in it right now? Dare I ask the question?
Who was? Yeah? What's the order that you cover? I'm not sure
that's the right easy way to put that. But who's older? Who's younger?
Okay? Okay? And do you have other siblings as well? Okay,
okay, cool difference between two of us? All right, okay,
but yeah, okay, okay, Well, thank you both for joining us
today. So, as I said, we are celebrating National Siblings Day,
which was towards the end of last week. Now, I guess what we
are looking to. It's a it's a sort of a day that's celebrating brothers
and sisters right across the board, I guess. And you know it's really
important to celebrate and recognize. But everybody in their own right, what happens
between you and I guess we're going to talk unpacked today kind of what we
think about that. Hopefully you, like I said, you can join in
that conversation with us today. But yeah, National Siblings Day, we're having
hopefully two other siblings aboard your sister as well. Yes, and Jella should
be joining us, and Pedro's wife and are twins should be joining us shortly
as well, so we will have a full house. And yeah, we'll
hear all the dynamics of that brother's sister relationship. Yeah, our siblings are
a gift from God. It's interesting because I was at Balham today and it
was a family Ministry's day and Sister Laura, I say, preach today and
obviously we're talking about families in general, and you know, one of the
points we used to make in that children are really important, you know,
within a family dynamic. Now that's obviously going to be different for everybody,
but I guess there's something to be said about a family that has there are
siblings, And it's quite interesting when I sometimes I've spoken to a couple of
my friends who have been who don't have siblings, and I guess their experiences
are very different, and their relations relationships with other people can be very different
as well. Quite a few that I spoke to her a bit like,
actually I kind of wish I did. I think as I've got older,
they've obviously made friendships and what have you. But as a younger child,
they were often sometimes wondering I wish I had siblings, but equally, but
I was like, yeah, but did you not feel that you kind of
then got everything? And it was something like, yeah, I suppose so,
but I think I would have liked. All of their friends had siblings,
so they always wanted what somebody else had, So I thought it was
kind of an interesting one. But you know, mass is always green eye,
isn't it. That's what they said, That's what they say, so
if you're in a very strained relationship with your brother and sister, thinking,
you know what, it should have been just me, or it could have
been just me or whatever. And that's the that's the million pound question,
isn't it Is it better to go it alone or know? Is it good
to have siblings or is it as a single child, you know, you
get to choose. That's the beauty of that relationship. You choose your friends,
you choose the people who are around you in that sort of relationship that
bond. But as siblings, you don't have the choice. That's true.
Who you get, that's true, that's true. Funny story I can share.
Sure. So as a child, I always wanted a brother and sister.
I always my parents for a brother and or sister. And when I
stopped asking, when I got fed up allipying, they just meet him.
That's when my brother turned up. So wondering why is it you wanted?
Why is it you wanted a brother and sister? Well, both my parents
were teachers when I was a child. My father was a head master.
My mother was a teacher, which was quite occupied a lot of the time,
so I had to occupy myself. I didn't have any cousins around growing
up, at least not in Barbarous. My cousins were in Martinique, So
my spare time was spent amusing myself. I was standing in front of a
mirror, make these holsters, a lot of paper and a gun, and
stand in front of a mirror and have a standoff with myself. When you
try around me, you walk ten paces and you're trying to shoot. That's
how I use myself as a child, I'd use my imagination a lot.
So I didn't have anyone to play with. I didn't want to help occupy
my time. I was one of the brothers, so I could cheer with
do things together, you know that kind of thing. Okay, okay.
And he used to teach the trees. You still have a whole classroom out
of the trees in the yard. You know. It was hilarious. Okay.
So with everybody here, Alison, do you have brothers and sisters?
I? I, yeah, I do. Actually I have a I have
a sister who is same mom, same dad, and then I've got six
half siblings as well. Okay, so yes, quite quite interesting. And
I didn't get to really find out about or know my other siblings until I
think last year sometime last year. So it's been quite an experience, quite
an adventure for me, and I'm really pleased. I'm really pleased. We
really look alike, we have a lot in common. It's been an interesting
journey. But yeah, okay, so we're all we've all got siblings here
and obviously depending on where things are in terms of ages and everything else.
I mean, when we were younger, it's similar to Andrew. Was it
a case if you wanted siblings or does anybody really want to be an only
child? I don't know, but yeah, did you Petro? Yeah,
there's always I because I like Alison, I have well, I don't say
I don't. I cain'te saying the word. I'm gonna say half brothers and
sisters. My father had four of us, so I had an older sister
and a younger sister, but they wasn't around that. We was around each
other. But then when I moved to the States, I was all by
myself and I actually loved it. I just loved it being the only child.
I just do what I wanted to do, and I was kind of
I'm kind of a lone in that sense. I just liked it being alone,
just being left alone. My mother would go to work and then I
could just have the house to myself. I actually just enjoyed it. I
would sit there with with you know, drugs, gallons of ice cream and
eat ice cream and watch TV. Yeah I was, I was. Yeah.
I would just you know, always get peanut butter and sugar and put
the peanut butter on the spoon and dip it in the sugar and eat.
Yes, I remember that. Yeah, you know, you know what I'm
talking about. Sugar, Sit there and get another coma and you get a
scoop of peanut butter. Two, get it on the spoon, I mean,
big old scoop and then just just the bit in the sugar, do
do and then just eat it. It was. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend
it to nobody right now. But that's a new one on me. I've
never heard that one. He knows what I mean, he's heard of himself.
I'm not lying. Yeah, So, I mean I I loved it.
But then you know, when I turned fourteen, I ended up like
like Alison, where I had My mother got married to my stepfather and he
had five kids. Then they had two kids. Then I already had the
other three kids, three siblings. I ended up I have like eleven twelve.
Then we adopted somebody. We adopted our sister, so we have like
twelve, I have like twelve half brothers and sisters. And yeah, and
I'm still technically the only child, So I do like that. Yeah,
I think I said that all the time. I'm the only one from my
mom exactly. I'm the only one for my mom and my father, so
technically the only child. Yes, and my dad has other kids. So
I think a bit of as having the best of both wells, I suppose,
because it's I mean, it's what it is. I'm the only child.
I'm spoiled, you know, everything to me, everything's mine. It
is what it is. But obviously, I think relationships, having those relationships,
especially as we've gotten older, we valued having each other. Even though
we're not as close as perhaps if we lived in the same household, We've
definitely come to appreciate each other more as we've as we've aged. So I
guess there's there was benefits of the benefits of then that you will, there
was benefits for certain to be anywhere, and I guess I was that from
before. With everything there there are benefits and disadvantages to to most aspects of
life. There's there's never a black and white. Most things are gray,
and I think what you do is you take the good out of it and
you learn from it and you build on it and all that kind of stuff.
There are some sibling relationships that are really harsh and horrible and because they're
siblings doesn't mean they're good people. So you know, you have to navigate
that. So maybe in that case you would prefer to be on your own.
And I know of siblings who have come to fist fights and the whole
gamut. And I'm sure Alison will speak to that. It's a process.
It's relationships. You know, you get the good, the bad, and
the ugly, but you take it as God planned it, and you you
move on the best you can. Okay, As I sort of come to
you as actually to ask the question, and I don't know where everybody.
I'm obviously green real well, there's the two of you under the oldest.
But is there something to be said about the birth order and where people come
within their sibling groups? They talk about middle child syndrome. Do the oldest
child get it the worst in certain things because I have to take on more
the youngers. Sometimes they say they tend to be very spoiled. Apparently that's
what they say. So is there something to be said in truth? As
in, because where are you pedri young? I think we're always clashing on
the show. I already agreeve you know out there that's a that's a theory
that came up in the nineties by somebody called Alfred Older. But then there's
been subsequent research that's been done along those lines, and there's there's the way
major flaws with that theory, so there's no tangible evidence. In fact,
that's a very kind of generalized and simplified view. I kind of feel like
that's a lazy way of grouping people, and I'm really, as a therapist,
I'm really contrary to that. There are a lot of factors that contribute
to personality types and behaviors of individuals, including siblings, and I think that
it'd be all too easy just to say middle children are this way and first
children are this way. However, there's been some research that's evidence that first
or the oldest child is slight has a slightly higher IQ compared to other children.
Well, I'm the oldest child, and that's me too. I would
tend to agree a disagreeing then interesting, okay, I would say, if
I can add to that a little bit. So this is coming more from
a parent perspective. I have three children, so I have the eldest,
the middle, and the last. And I think I would agree with with
Alison in the sense that it's too generic to say that the last thought is
spoiled, even if it may seem that way generally speaking, because you have
the different aspects of the personality traits that come into play. And I also
would imagine depend on the experience of the parents themselves. So with my children,
I think this happens fairly often with the first child. As new parents,
you kind of experiment and your learning what if this whole parent thing is
all about? And you probably would be stricter with that child because you want
to set boundaries early. Again, depending on the parent and the second child,
you maybe I was a bit too much with first child. You could
actually go a little easier and still maintain the kind of development we want for
a child. And by the third child, you're either tired mother as much
or he just kind of maybe relaxed to some extent, but it varies depending
on the parent and depending the person of a child. But you can also
have the aspect where the last child, if they're observant enough and intelligent enough,
will learn from what's been done to the older siblings. And that's kind
of my situation my children. My youngest child is learning from the mistakes that
the others have made, and she's smart in a way she deals with her
parents and how she approaches her parents on what she does and doesn't do,
and then it makes the other siblings think she's point or she's the favorite,
but it's not that she's favorite, she's just in a way she kind of
navigates her parents. Does that definitely, Yeah, And they think, oh,
she's so spoiled, Oh you love her more? You you know,
you want to do more. No, she just pays attention. I totally
agree with that. I totally agree with that coming because yeah, just learn
to do that. I mean, it's interesting. I mean, I'm I'm
the well, the oldest, although I do have an older sister who's not
with it. But for the morale, it's been myself and two younger sisters
and I would definitely say that. I think I've paved the way in some
respects. You know. I guess as you're saying, you know, there's
probably things as new parents, they'll do things I'll try, you know,
they'll start things more protective, what have you. But actually, I think
by the time my sisters have got to a point where they can do stuff,
they get away with those stuff. I sometimes think I never was able
to do this, you know. I'm like, you've got it easy now,
and whatlse, It's just a different experience. I'm like, Yeah,
if it wasn't for me, you'd never be able to do this. It
wasn't for me doing all of this, if it wasn't for me getting into
trouble first of all, kind of thing. Definitely that. So yeah,
So Alison, when your work do you find sometimes those kind of issues do
you come up? I think, yeah, I think a lot of a
lot of people, And I'm actually glad this is being talked about because we
don't get to hear about siblings relationships a lot. But actually, if you
think about it, like all of us here have siblings, and I think
we've mostly we've spent a lot of time around our siblings. Our siblings have
shaped us in good ways or even more challenging ways as well, and some
of those relationships can sometimes be very challenging, not because maybe the sibling or
one sibling chooses to be unkind, unpleasant or horrible, but sometimes you know
the environmental factors or cultural factors, parental kind of engagement. I'm listening to
the two brothers on the show at the moment, and when one was born,
the dad was ahead master, i think, and when the other one
was born, the dad was a pastor, and so the kind of outlook
from the dad's perspective on life would be probably different between when the first the
older sibling was born compared to when the younger sibling was born. So the
experiences will be different. But as children we don't really necessarily understand that parents
are going through different phases of life. And when we see differences, that
poses that creates problems in the way that we view ourselves, in the level
of self esteem, that all confidence that we have in ourselves, and that
can sometimes develop in psychological problems or rivalry between the siblings as well, which
if it's if those are not addressed, then they just get magnified and spiral
into something a lot more serios. So you know there can be all sorts
of factors that contribute to problems between siblings. It's one of the kind of
most beautiful relationships and it shapes a lot of people in very positive ways.
But when it goes wrong, it can it can go very wrong, terribly
wrong. If I could, well, I was just asking because you've touched
on it, and I just want to make sure that it comes across and
it's clarified and maybe echoed in the fact that the experience that the child has
is shaped in terms of their experience with their sibling, or their relationship with
their sibling can be shaped a lot by the parent and where the parents at
and you know what stance the parents has, And so I just wanted to
reiterate that because you've said it there. When when I might think I'm being
you're being hard on me, or or I'm being spoiled, or you might
think I'm being spoiled as my sibling, etc. It's based on what my
mom and dad may be experiencing at the time. As you said, as
a headmaster, Andre may have gotten the cane or the whatever the case might
be the harder angle as a pastor maybe not a vice versa, and we'll
dig into that with them, I guess at some point. But I liked
what you said. It is the parental relationship sometimes that shapes what experiences the
siblings have and the perspectives that the siblings have. And I wanted to sort
of build on that because I'm thinking as a parent. Let's say, I'm
just sort of getting through the nappy stage. I'm sleep deprived, but suddenly,
hopefully the routine will come back, We'll finally get a chance to spend
time with each other, husband and wife, etc. Am I to consider
now that she's an only child and I should bring somebody else into the picture,
or maybe you know, the child is throwing a tantrum in the supermarket
and I'm wondering, what have we gotten ourself into. At what point do
our parents make a decision on should we do this again? Should we have
another child? Is that something that's based on financials, emotions? You know,
where do we go if we're speaking to our parents first, what are
we saying to our parents about the decision about making more children, having more
children and the relationship that this child will have with that child potentially, I
hope I'm making I mean, that's a that's a really loaded question. And
I guess that that depends on the individual parents what their preference is. Some
people will prefer to just have one child, for financial reasons, for health
reasons, the numerous reasons why people might choose to have a large family or
a smaller family, and that's an individual or so that's the choice of the
people who are having the children. I would say children are a blessing.
I would say children change our lives in a way that we can't really explain
pro play to other people. And I think that for some people, the
whole experience of carrying a child, giving birth to a child might not be
very great or positive, and they might decide, actually, this is all
I can handle, and they will be comfortable with that. For other people,
and for many people, they will have strong more and they ask Christians
pray about it, talk about it because it's something that we can't Parenting is
something that we can't fully prepare for. But psychologically, if we are in
a position where we we think we're ready, I say, we think because
I've got two children, got two teenagers, I thought I was ready,
and I'm finding out every day that you know, it's it's quite challenging,
but it's also very rewarding. But I think we need to psycho be psychologically
prepared for the fact that having children is a life changing event. It's both
rewarding and challenging. It's something, it's a it's a process where we're going
to learn, and we're going to be have to be humble to be learning.
If you're the sort of person who thinks I'm a perfectionist, I want
to be a perfect parent, I suggest work on your perfectionism first before trying
to be a parent, because it will challenge us in many ways. So
I think that we need to be humble. We need to have a humble
attitude and attitude of learning. We need to be flexible, both kind of
behaviorally and psychologically flexible as well. And if we want to have more than
one child, I think it's a good thing. If we can, it's
absolutely a good thing because I think that there are a lot of benefits and
in my view, where the environment is right, where children are loved and
validated and supported, it's absolutely a positive experience for the children to have siblings
can as are. So what you just said, we're talking about siblings,
but like siblings from the same parents, would the same thing apply for because
in today's world, a lot of times you get into relationship the person already
has children. So then it comes that no dynamic of you know, the
stepparent becoming a parent. You know, like there's just that dynamic like what
do we call you? Do we call you mom? Do we call you?
I think in Bermuda some people call the stepfather cool. They don't say
that, you know, does that what that still apply the same way?
You understand what acting like if it's not from the same mother, but it's
now joining like blended family, you're blending a family, and that that can
be a really beautiful thing, having a blending it is it's about, you
know, it's about communicating effectively, being prepared for the fact that there's going
to be challenges, and understanding that children don't know everything. So you're you're
you're taking on a child who probably will behave differently from what you expect or
what you're used to, but you know, remember that that's a child,
and remember that you have an opportunity to influence and mold that child. Into
into somebody really positive and that sometimes it's going to be challenging, but being
prepared for it, being realistic about the fact that sometimes it's going to be
difficult as well as rewarding. I think sometimes when we go into things without
really kind of thinking about it properly or talking about it properly, then when
we hit challenges, we find it more difficult to deal with them. But
actually, if we're going to do these situation has been quite realistic about potentially
what the challenges might be or the fact that there will be challenges, then
we have more of the mindset to work things through to problem solve when we
start to face difficulties. The process where we're all learning, the parents are
learning, the children are learning. Sorry, Andrew, all right, before
we started, I was thinking about I was trying to think of all the
sibling relationships I could think of in the Bible, and I couldn't find too
many positive or good sibling relationships mental and most of them seem to be blended
families or siblings from different parents. And I wasn't sure that that was a
factor could be I hadn't given that much, but I just realized, oh,
I can't think of many positive different relationships in the Bible, you know,
those kind of interesting thoughts. It's funny that just said that because dis
sermon today the other preached on families and he talked about David wanting the his
his wife or the other man's wife, and how his son saw that and
said, Oh, it's gonna be okay for me to now go and do
whatever I wanted to do. So what's what, Like Alison was just saying,
like, what we do influences the siblings, like it developed, We
developed the children to under too, to be who they are by what they
see, what we carry. Yeah, but because if you notice everything you
just said, a lot of the siblings, you couldn't find any good reasons.
But look at their parents. That's that's really what I'm going with.
If you look at their parents and what their parents are doing, that's why
the siblings were doing what they was doing, because they was they was watching
their parents and then saying oh I could do this, and you know and
if you really look at it, it's just it was weird because he did
the Summonton and I was sending like, wow, that is so true,
and then you brought that up. But that's that's why he kind of broke
it down a little bit and I was like, okay, that makes sense.
So with a little bit of that, and that's really really interesting,
Andre and real tell us a little bit about your sibling relationship. Obviously,
and thinking back in terms of Allison was mentioning in terms of you know,
where parents are, so your parents are in different places in terms of what
they were doing work wise, et cetera. But tell us a bit about
your relationship and how that Yeah, what's your relationship like and how has that
developed over the years. And I guess as well as we're talking about,
how has that then shaped you know, your decisions to have children, but
also to have siblings for your children as well? You know, has that
made a difference for you both? But yeah, well I guess because of
the gap, Yeah, because of the because of the twelve years I'm probably
to Andrea was probably the annoying brother that was always wanted to be around,
the bigger brother, And that was the age for me that he was a
teenager and he was getting into a girlfriend and they just wanted to be everywhere.
Well, he wanted to have his own perfect time. But for me,
about our relationship from my perspective, has changed over the years because Andrea
was obviously more mature and I was much younger. But by the time I
started to experience life but what it was, our relationship kind of changed because
I was understanding what he was going through in terms of being an adult and
so forward. But growing up, Andrea was almost like the filler for me.
Whenever, for example, my dad and my parents won't really speak to
me about certain things. Maybe they say about relationships or sex as it were,
Andrew was a person that I would talk to about it, or he
was the first person I say, hey, I had my first kiss today,
but my parents never knew about it, right, So he was almost
like another father figure as it was, being the older brother at the age
that we were at. And most of the things that I am passionate about
is because of what I saw Andrew was passionate. So my first introduction to
a cappella music, the fact is because Andrew had an a cappella group.
They were practiced at the house and I'll be the little kids listening to all
these harmonies. I'm like, oh, this is amazing. When I grew
up, I'm going to do it, so when it was in high school,
I found my own kind of quartets and kind of following his footsteps.
So I was almost like a little sheet following a little lamb, following Andrew's
footsteps, but also kind of listening to my parents at the same time.
But I had a bias towards Andrew more than my parents. Mm hmm,
right, yeah. I think her relationship is quite unique in well unique in
that sense because growing up as my father all my father was a principal,
the most pressure I had was your your your Josie's son, So you had
to be to be your behavior need to be something that the standard right,
which was I didn't feel it so much that the early ages in the teams
that shifted because then then the stabby expectation raised further when that became a pastor.
But I grew up under the the dual expectation of your Jonesy's son the
principal, but you're also Pastor Jones's son, so it's like a double expectation
of this high standard of behavior and performance and all the rest of it.
When when Will was born, I was a static. I can tell you
the day at the time, the name of the hospital. I was so
happy, and oh no, I was. I was. I was even
when I had to take well with me when I went to things. I
all kept really having a problem with it. I don't reving a problem with
it. I always enjoyed we're all being around. The disadvantage that we have
is that by the time I, by the time he got older, old
enough that we could exchange probably better, I left home. So there's a
good period of time where we weren't together under the same roof, and then
we kind of join each other again when we're moved to the new case.
He was a doubt by that time, and things kind of picked up from
there. We were always able to talk to each other. We be signed
together in the same corral as named choir. Our voices are very very similar,
to the point where our mother could sometimes shure who she's talking to on
the phone. Our personalities or the mean are very similar. I would say
he's the more artistic of the two of us, and the more gifted of
the two of us. But it's been an interesting it's kind of developed where
although I'm the older brother, I don't see him as my little brother.
I just seem as my brother, so that that difference and age isn't isn't
isn't kind of enforced or forced on him in a sense. I know that's
not always the case in a lot of siblings, but that's that's not a
dynamic that we have. Would you what was interested in about? What was
interesting about what? So again, because of the age, by the time
Andrew left, I felt like a child at that because I didn't have any
anybody wrong me, so that I started to it. I wish I had
a little brother as well, you know, because that was he was gone
by that time, my parents said. And then I didn't know that Andrew
used to play entertain himself in the mirror playing cowboys, because I used to
do that as well. But I laughed to myself. I was like,
oh you did that. I did that too, and I find it interesting.
Well, it's funny you say that because the need that he wanted.
Yeah, because my next question was going to be, how have you influenced
each other's kind of with your personalities or behaviors? So that's quite an interesting
something that you've almost passed on without maybe not even recognizing or realizing it.
So I guess something like that were there are other things that you can You
spoke about your similar interests with singing, et cetera. But was there other
kind of ways where you know, you feel like you've influenced each other,
not necessarily even from being the older to younger, but even vice versa.
And I don't know if it's if it's a direct influence or that well,
alan an extra layer to what I just mentioned. And they said, we
have very similar personalities. Right, Funny enough, we've both married women who
are very similar in terms of their personalities. Okay, that's interesting. I
don't know. I don't know, but there you go. I think that's
really interesting. I've I've seen I know four brothers who who married four women
who are very similar. And these brothers are very similar as well. So
I think that's that's you know, there's something about the preference then that you
have in the people you choose us like partners. And I wonder if there's
any there's been anything about how your parents were or what sort of characteristics they
had that have made you, maybe consciously or unconsciously make certain decisions that are
very similar. MM. That's interesting. They say that boys married, They
say boys married their mother and girls married their father kind of thing. I
don't think that's the case for us. That's that's experience. Yes, h,
I don't know. I said, it's sorry, go ahead tell you
no. No, I was I was almost thinking of your question because our
family was probably like a typical nuclear family. There. Dad was, as
you was saying, the breadwinner. My mom was more of a support to
him, and she was the main one to kind of look after us,
at least when I was. She looked up to me because that was always
busy word meetings and being a pastor, and she supported him and me as
being a child. And I can't find any any examples of oh, why
we chosen like partners were chosen because of how our parents were, But I
think it was for me it would be down to the principle who I've been,
the character of my wife. She shared a lot of similar things that
she wanted in the marriage. That was reflected in what I saw in my
parents married, which I admired a lot because I thought they had a for
what it was within their time. It was a great relationship that they had,
and my wife wanted similar similar things. So that's what gravid what made
me gravitate towards her for most soul being. Okay, I just I just
seek here and wondering if the dynamics would be different between the two of you
if one of you was female and the other was male. Mm hmmm,
that's that I think that would be if if I think, if well were
my sister had with my brother, I think only more protective in that scenario.
That's why thing I can really think that the first that comes to mind,
as you say, the person that comes to mind another thing, Well,
what I'm thinking as well is and and you both show that it can
be done, because a lot of parents worry when they're there. The gap
is as wird that it as it is in terms of you know, the
r the relationship and how you will bond and how you will mesh. For
me personally, my son is is fifteen and I I I I can't think
of having another child now. I can't think of I. I can't understand
how that will work because he you know, he's fifteen, and I think
going into adulthood and here I'm going to be bringing sort of a baby into
the picture, and a lot of parents struggle with that decision and wonder whether
it will work or not. And you two are very good examples or example
is not quite the word, but but show that it can be done.
And there are benefits to having a a a brother or a sister that's old
and has gone through it and can sort of helped the younger one along,
especially if the relationship is right. And that's also a testament to your parenting
or your your parents. And I also wondered if your faith has anything to
do with that, would you would you attribute your relationship your your values,
your because you are both very close. You can hear it in how you
speak of each other, very complimentary, you know, very loving, caring,
And I wonder is that just down to parenting or would you say that's
faith or a bit of both. What what would you what would you say?
For the reasons or reason? I think some of us also shared experience
because again I keep going back to the gap. You know, we weren't
as close because while he was mature, I was still mm hm. And
I think we only really got close when, you know, I became an
adult and we kind of understood life as as he did. But we also
went through a traumatic event together where my dad asked and that brought everybody back
that was in Jamaica studying at the time, and Andrew was in the UK,
and we came back together and because we haven't seen each other for a
while, that was almost like a point in our lives where we will always
go back to as to the fact that we need to continue. We were
reminded that we need to stay on taps more. Life is short and that
we should not take each other for granted, you know. And then a
few years later there was another point in Andrea's life where you know, it
was hospitalized, and it was it was a traumatic event for me because I
wasn't able to be there when he was going through it, at least at
the peak of it, because I was before I was in the States for
a friend's wedding, and I was completely distressed the fact that I wasn't there
and reminded me of who I wasn't there with my dad passed away, because
he passed away suddenly and when he came to Barbados, you know, just
to see to go through the funeral and what not. So that fear of
not being there for him also kind of sparked who I need to pay I
need to be more attentive to our relationship. I can't allow months to go
by and I don't check in on how I was doing. So since those
two points in our lives, at least to me, it's kind of encouraged
me or reminded me to stay in touch, don't allow long gaps, and
to check in to make sure everything was there. And mm hmmm, that's
cool, that's cool. Okay, to go back to what you were go
ahead, go ahead, go ahead. I'm gonna go back to what Zenya
mentioned before in terms of the age gap and how the parents wondering parents wonder
whether they should shouldn't, it has two things. The advantage of having that
age gap is that it does it could teach the older child responsibility because they
become part of taking care of their sibling. So it takes that kind of
selfishness away from them and have to consider their sibling and have some responsibility towards
them. But that also largely depends on how the parents manage that whole situation.
They you know, they give too much attention to the baby for getting
the older or not really bringing the older sibling into the into the mix,
into the whole process. It can cause tension and literally et cetera, et
cetera. So it really depends on how the parent manages that that dynamic.
Mm hmm. In terms of running myself, she wasn't well. I was
asking whether you saw faith played a part and how relationship is and I am
not entirely sure. I would, I would, I would, I would
imagine it did. I think a lot of it has to do as well
with the way we were, what we saw at home, which which you
can't. You can't detach faith from that anyway, because I was all integrated
and aco part of the whole experience at home. But the importance of family
is something that was we could It wasn't necessarily spoken of, but you could
see in terms of how my my father related to his siblings, how my
mother lived to her siblings. That's what we kind of grew up seeing.
My mother. My father was very very close to his sister and brothers,
especially his sister what's your sister? And my mother although she lived far from
her siblings in different islands, she didn't see them very often. You always,
you would always hear a very question of her growing up with her siblings.
For this day, if you want my mother to smile and laugh at
scrimble an experience when she was growing up. Mm hmmm, Oh that's lovely.
Oh about me? Amazing and there, Yeah, I am sorry,
I've clicked on a bus. I don't know what happened there. Yeah,
I was just gonna say, yeah, that's really it's that's really lovely to
hear because you know, that's the family relationships and the relationship and the things
that have brought you closer, and that's developed over the years, whether it's
you know, unfortunately so may be sad situations, but it's definitely prompted that
and to see the importance of that. So thank you for sharing that.
I see we have two or more of our guests have just joined us,
so we're going to meet them, but we're going to play a track for
yes today. I picked two sisters here. Oh well, I can't remember
their names, but you know them as Mary, Mary Erica and I can't
think of her sister's name. But the song is thankful and one thing that
you know, we can all say that we are thankful for our siblings.
Hopefully you have positive relationships with them. But let's listen to Mary, Mary
and thankful, thank you for my blessings, everything that you Okay, Sometimes
when danger was around me, my lad lord, you say, grow what
up? Be without Joel love? Be without Joel bring you didn't have the
new came to and that word I God, I got it all my own,
never removed. They say they never been around. When me up again
to a broad it all. I can always depend on you ever rockway up
day was my life mocking say go up, be with that job coming out,
be with that Joe's say, you didn't have the joy that next time
you go, you wake the ball right movie that he kept saying the night
hid raison high. That's what you say. What you did? You didn't
have to get me say my nice where on the floor away don't thank all
and thank you on me time where thanks, thank you, thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you,
thank you, thank you, thank you. Don't know me hello, let
me take you carry me time looking jes say, okay, so we're thankful
for our siblings are brothers and sisters. And yeah, so we've been hearing
so far from Andre and Rural, very close brothers from what we can tell
from their experiences. Despite their age difference, yeah, which has been really
positive to hear, and some really insights with Alison as well. Thank you,
because actually there are a lot of as we realized, there are lots
of myths around things. You know, we talked a little bit about,
you know, the birth order that makes a difference. But so i'd be
quite interesting to hear what your thoughts on our next guests because they have a
very special relationship. So welcome Tara and Shara. Tara, some of you
may know already, may have heard her on the radio. Petro introduced Tara
for us in wife. She's a woman. My name is Tara, and
I have read that. But I'm originally from America, United States, Birmingham,
Alabama, where I was born and raised with my twin sister and my
older brother. And yeah, my mother and my father were my father's deceased
now and I lived which I will not get into all the other entities,
but I have now I reside in the UK with my husband and three children.
Okay, who is Pedro in case nobody had guessed, Thank you Tara.
So, Tara, you are a twin and we're really thankful that we
have your twin sister with us today as well. So tell us a little
bit about yourself. Yes, well, I'm a twin obviously, I live
here in the United States. So yeah, I sing. I sing a
little bit, I sing, not a little well, well, I sing
sometime. I don't sing as after as I used to. Okay, but
yeah, there's many Okay, who's the who is the oldest side of the
two of you? Because I just after the question people always ask, and
it's offtened, you know, minutes and a half. Oh wow, okay,
okay. And do you see yourself Tara as the older sister. I
do, Yeah, of course, you know, I take my role very
seriously. That's my baby sister. Okay, okay, So tell us about
your relationship and the uniqueness of being a twin. And that's to both of
you. Oh well, I guess I'll start. I love the twin sister.
I love that me and my sister grew up together, doing everything together,
from and you know, sharing things with her to her. I didn't
I've had her, you know, I had my sister that I can lean
on and we always encourage each other. We had moments, well we didn't
get along, but I think through it all, you know, the love
that we have for each other was just it was unmatched with anyone else.
And yeah, I just love being a twin mm hmm. Yeah, it
was, it was. It was always a challenge dealing with tars. We
both grew up singing together, yeah, and in the church and everything,
and our mother she played the organ and everything. So everything was church bound
in our house, you know. So my parents were strict with us and
my brother also, and you know, it was just a blessing, you
know that our parents can be in our lives the way that they was.
And after our father died, that was that was hard dealing with that.
When he passed, he had kidney failure, okay, and so but he
dealt with that being on dialysis for like what, how was how long was
it? He's about fifteen? Yeah, yeah, I would say that was
a challenge in time. And now, you know, in our lives together
dealing with you know, my father being having a chronic illness the way he
did, and you know, just seeing him come go from a healthy man
to a stick man and then you know, us taking turns go and take
him to dialysis, and you know, I think our relationship got even stronger
because we leaned on each other even more. We always was already a strong
net family, but when my father became sick, we just really came more
closer. I would say, understanding, you know, what his sickness was,
and how we had to adapt to learning what that was and just going
around that whole thing. And you know, I just think that was an
opportunity God gave us to grow even closer together as a family. Yeah,
most definitely. And my mom, she she always been you know, strong,
a strong woman, you know, being there for us twins and my
brother, and and she was a bit white. I always have been a
good They always was great parents towards us. You know. I always tried
to teach us the right thing to do in life. You know, even
though we all go our separate ways and do things differently. You know,
nobody used to say even though my sister and are twins, we're totally different
people, two different people. Did you find that that's interesting? That's making
me smile. I was just waiting for that moment when you're I like,
like, you're two different people, because what struck me is when you both
came on. You know, I think immediately there's you know, people are
looking at both of you and thinking, you know, while they're looking like,
sounded like I can see that the twins, and almost immediately that individuality
almost seems to be kind of like taken away. And I just wondered how
you kind of dealt with that along as she went through along the years,
the fact that, you know, almost every time people saw the two of
you together, potentially they compared you to each other, make comments about how
similar you are in certain ways. How was that for you both growing up?
Well, I remember, I don't know if you remember, shares were
vaguely want my father to be like because my sister wore like a tongboy type
of thing and I was more girly. So my father my sister, why
you don't jest of like her sister? Why you don't you know, do
things like her? And she just was you know what I'm saying. She
was just who she was and what she liked to do. And I think
my father and family, you know, was like, Okay, I can
accept her for that. You know he wanted I guess he wanted us both
to be the same because we was twins. I don't think he actually saw
us as two individuals. You know, trying to do our own thing.
I was. I think he knew. I think he knew that I was
going to be different from you anyway, because he did. Mom always said
that that that it was that we were going to be different. Yeah,
you know, he had already had seen that earlier in our child like or
whatever. So that being said, you know, that was that was a
hard task, uh, going through us growing up in our personality being different
from one another, especially when things came in a more different way when I
came out to my parents when I was eighteen, and so that was a
hard thing that I think as a n our family home we had to deal
with. But we got through it. Yeah, you know, we got
through it. And I couldn't have a better relationship with my brother, my
sister, my my children. So it's you know, it was a role
you know times here are all wounds. Yeah, and that didn't change who
I was as a person, no, you know, but me and my
sister had you know it, it was kind of a strange relationship we had
at one point in our life because you know, we wasn't speaking yeah and
talking at one point. Yeah, and so that was that was kind of
hard. To deal with because I missed her a lot and I missed you
too, and I I think it was just hard for me to m I
know, that's not Oh, ykay, it's okay, that's okay. Yeah,
when they when I met, when I met Tara, it was right
about two years to where she came out, So I came in right when
they was in the the fighting back and forth and uh, just a lot
of bickering between siblings. And as I tell Tom that, you think she
don't want to talk to you, but she does. She's just mad at
you. So you just have to be patient and you guys just need to
sit down and talk and just working. And you know, because I think
talas Pond was just accepting. I think because she had the same just like
her father, she had the same idea that her sister was going to be
just like her, well not exactly like her, but you know, be
sembilant of her. So when she came out and she's not like her,
Taal had a hard time accepting that because that was her sister, and she's
like, you know, she just had a hard time accepting it. And
then I came along, and then I didn't think it just took time for
healing from me. Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm saying. And
then like we was talking about this this week, and I think, like,
you know, God put people in your place, and I'm not trying
to take credit on it. I'm just saying I think when I came into
Tara's life, I was able to talk to her and help her to understand
and to be more accepting of her sister in that sense. And I don't
mean to say it like that, but you know what I mean, I
listen. I just mean like, just you know, that's your sister.
Don't matter, you know what, the differences you have. You need to
have a relationship with your sister and your brother no matter what, because when
it comes down to it, it's still a family. Yeah. I think
at the end of the day, I had to realize that, you know,
we had our own paths to take right, you know, and I
had chosen my path and she had chose hers. You know. I think
I was just trying to be more dominant, you know. I was just
trying to like, this is what you need to do, and this is
how you should you know, live your life. And then I had to
realize that no, I had to. I had to ask God to really
help me with that because I just couldn't accept the fact that my sister chose
to have a different lifestyle than I did. But I'm not I was hard
for our parents too. It was hard for my mother and my father.
Like I said, you know, we grew up you know, in church
all the time, you know, so you know, it wasn't an easy
thing for me to come out and tell them that. But you know,
sometimes you get hard, you get tired of keep them secrets and stuff,
and so I just wanted to be my authentic self and be honest with who
I was with my parents, you know, telling them the truth about me
in what I was going through at the time. So you know, once
all of that got out, you know, yeah, you know I had
to deal with the consequences of buying all of that. But you know,
it's better now as far as I can say that. It's like as a
time here our wolves, both our whole family, and now we can come
together as one and still love each other, you know, the way we
insupposed to. So, I mean, what you've just described is like really
clearly illustrates the really special, very close bonds that you share us twins,
but then also that each of you is an individual at the same time.
And you talk about growing up in the church, but actually you were both
in the womb at the same time, and that process of growing in the
womb is part of life, and a lot of our experiences are shaped when
we're in the world. It's actually a lot stronger than with others as well,
and unconsciously there's a part of twigs that just want to be very close
and want to be very similar to each other, but then at the same
time, each person wants to be an individual as well. And sometimes one
of the most challenging things for parents is to bring up twins or more than
one child at the same time, born at the same time, because you're
trying to understand these people as individuals, but also you know, for practical
reasons, you're doing the same things to both people at the same time.
So in the mind sometimes it's very very difficult to figure out the fact that
yes, you're treating both in very similar ways, but you're having to get
to know each person as an individual for yourself and then treat them as individuals.
And I think that we need to give credit to parents who have more
than one children at the time, because they have a lot of work on
their hands when those children are Yes, you guys didn't say like when you
guys were growing up, you did everything together. Yeah, yeah, we
did. We did to the point that was nauseating when I met them.
They did everything. If they went to the if one was going to the
d V to get a hit, they get a hit shot for the d
m V, for the photo, they both would go like why just go
like they both everything. They went to the grocery store together, they went
to the park together. They did. I was like, it was just
that's what we did. Yeah. Yeah, my sister and I was very
popular in our town where we see and so you know a lot of people
knew who he was, you know, especially when we were singing different churches
and stuff. You know who didn't know you know, yeah, the singings,
so you know we was we was our It's poppling in that way too,
you know, because people loved she singing a lot, and we haven't
sung together in a long time now. Her whole thing, Oh, I
see a reunion coming on here for that then maybe a lot of things on
today. In fact, yes, It's interesting because you're talking about you're sort
of individuality, but you did something very similar. Did you have any sort
of special and sometimes they talk about twins having special languages between them or particular
codes, or just did you ever finish each other sentences? Or the weather's
feeling well? For some reason, I give a call and I'll be like,
yeah, how you doing. She was like, I'm not feeling worth
a girl not feeling well? You know, it could just it's just like
we just I just knew something was wrong with her. I could just call
it like I was just thinking about you. I was thinking about you too,
and then we'll call each other, you know, about the same time.
Yeah. So it's always that thing. I always knowing something's up with
my sister. She can't just call and stay tired. I'm like, no,
what's wrong? You know me too? Yeah? Yeah, just made
a point. And it's true. During high school, even though they were
twins, they all they we talk about all the time. They had separate
friends. Yeah, yeahs friend and shows friends with our times friends, which
I thought was red because you would think as siblings you would have the same
at least some kind of group like the only friends that had was the ones
they sang with. Everybody else was totally different in the sense of who they
hung out with or who they did things with. Is that normal? Is
it something? But what we we we we had the same friends, we
hung out with with people together when we was coming up, you know what
I'm saying in our younger days, you know. So we we uh we
had groups and stuff that we was in, you know, different singing groups
around town, and you know what I'm saying. And we would have to
travel before that, and uh, and especially when our mom played for us,
so she was our personalized musician, you know. So she she will
play for us on different occasions that we had to sing at. And yeah,
it was just a joy of having her, having my mom, you
know, uh train us in the way that she wanted us to be as
far as vocalist vocalists and stuff like that. Yeah, and so you know
it was It still would be great now if we can get together and sing
with mom and and and and have that reunion that we need to have to
you know, give God a little praise, you know, never get tired
of giving God praise at all. Yeah, Yeah, I mean petro Toine
sa her question. I think, yeah, that's it. Tastes come on,
and it's actually healthy to be encouraged for twins to have their own They
can have friends in common, but to have their own individual like groups of
friends as well. And if you're buying gifts, please don't buy one card
for two people, you know, things like that they both have to get
a gift. Like in case of this week, and I have we have
three kids, and we went to church today and we were supposed to go
to dinner, but I knew I had to do talking points. I said,
like, it's gonna be too much for me to do. My son
wanted to go because his friend was there and another two friends were there.
The girls wanted to go, but I was like, no, as more
as age let him go by himself. Tired and what She was like,
no, you know, they should be at it. And I'm like,
I think that even as siblings, you should have your own set of friends,
and that just because one is doing one thing, the other doesn't have
to do it too. Yeah, I think that they should be able to
do things separately, learn get their own like footing in a sense, you
know, friendship wise. You know, Yeah, I agree, and I
was just gonna ask Alison, you know what sort of tips can you You
mentioned a few in terms of how parents can encourage live individuality because people society
would have to was sometimes, you know, bring ce twins as one person
often at times, you know, rather than the unique people that they are.
So how would you say parents could encourage that individuality because we might find
things like dressing in the same clothes or the same colors, that kind of
thing. Well, I never I never liked you went dressing like my mama
used to pull that stuff all the time. I never did like that.
You know, I want to I just wanted to be my own person.
I want to dress my way. I want my hair to be a certain
way, you know. I just I didn't like all the stuff my sister
like, you know, she was more, uh make up and like stuff
like that. But you know, I won't make up sometimes when I wanted
to, you know, when I want to dress up. We both dressed
up and stuff, but you know, I was just I just I just
had my own dying going on, and so we I never did like the
twin dress up. Some people like it, some people don't. I didn't
care for work like that did you one time doing that? Your mim put
you in a dress you didn't want to wear, so you messed it up
on purpose, so you can wear what you want to do. I'm not
trying to I'm not trying to love your spot. I'm just saying I just
you said that. It made me think of the story that you guys were
telling me how you had. He was like, I'm not wearing this dress.
He doesn't you did something to it. But but but I had to
that my mama made me. So weren't no, you weren't no where it
is. You weren't go where my mom and dad made or made me and
my wedding stuff. So you know, when I got old, I was
yeah, so you know, you know, we basically you know, had
to do what we were told. So yeah, I mean, in terms
of like what what parents can tell, I think, you know, it's
it's really really important that parents take time to know their intifu children, regardless
even I was gonna say even twins, but yeah, especially twins. Yeah,
and that's that's really important because nobody, nobody just wants to be treated
in like like a general case. Everyone's an individual and it's really important,
and each child is unique. Each child is different. Get to know your
what your child's strengths are, and really highlight us and praise them and compliment
them for their strengths. Please do not compare people. You know, we
each one of us is very different. Each one of us has different preferences,
Each one of us is unique, so you know, recognize that and
don't compare people. Don't compare siblings. Don't compare siblings to their your children
to their friends, or anything like that, because that's potentially very detrimental.
Find interest that everyone, you know, get people to be interested in other
people's interests as well, and appreciate what the other person's about, what the
other person's hobbies are, and you know, just get people to do different
things as a family so that you can get people to learn to live as
a community and really appreciate each other social skills as well. Encourage people to
nago siate. You know, people are going to have differences, people are
going to have disagreement, and that's normal. In a family setting conflicts is
normal because you get to learn a lot about yourself as well as learn a
lot about the other person. We can pretty much say a lot of things
is how we say it. So parents have a responsibility to help their children
to communicate effectively, socialize. If that's the work together, you know,
those are the things that are going to keep them together. And it doesn't
matter where they are, it doesn't matter what they're doing. If they grow
up knowing how to appreciate each other, communicate effectively with each other, problems
solved together, and just value and respect each other, I think you know
we're going to have really close families and really kind of happy communities. But
parents have a very very important role to play. And I know that parents
are not perfect because I know that we've touched on parents and we can sometimes
be quite critical of how parents have performed in bringing up their children. But
let's remember that parents themselves have their own past, their own history, their
own potential traumas that they've experienced, might not have addressed, and are not
perfect. We only need to be good enough parents. We don't have to
be perfect parents, and yes we will make mistakes mistakes, but you know,
when you know that you've made a mistake, or you know that you've
compared your your between your children, please take the time to apologize, take
the time to understand pain, understand their heart, and and just take the
time to listen, just to listen to each person and try and understand where
they're coming from, because sometimes unconsciously we pass on negative narrative, negative messages,
not because we don't love our children, not because we want to hurt
people, but just because we just are not aware of it or we don't
know any different. So it's a learning process and we need to be humble
in that process. You're a resident counselor. It's so full of wisdom,
and I take from that the communication and the love being the overaarching principle.
Even Sharon Tarry, you speak about a time when you separate, then there
was sort of like a conflict that you had to resolve. And here is
Elson saying that this is a process that you have to teach and instill in
your children as they are growing up, so that when these conflicts come,
as they will, we know how to navigate them and how to and how
to get beyond them. And that's such a crucial, such a crucial point.
Yeah, cool, Well, second, third or fourth, that message
definitely, definitely it has been. It's been really good, and you know,
we're coming towards the end of our show. But we've got one other
person who has joined us today, and I'm not going to say I'm not
going to send a time biased or anything, but I'd like to say she's
probably with the best sisters in the world. I mean, you know,
don't have So I'm going to say, welcome to my sister Samantha, who's
joining us from the US as well. How are you doing so, lil
hi. Yes, we just finished our service, so I'm kind of trying
to go in between. So sorry I couldn't join earlier. But great to
see everyone, and yeah, it's great to be part of this conversation.
Thank you, thank you. And I'm based in Connecticut in the in the
US. Yeah, so we're part of a mission church. So our main
church is Mount Zion Santa Adventist Church in Hamden, Connecticut, but we're part
of a mission church based in West Haven. So we've been doing that since
twenty nineteen. So it's called mission called I'm sorry, there's a mission and
it's called Victory Rose. Yeah. Now, my father's a pastor. He
was a pastor of a church in Connecticut and New Haven, Oh, which
I can't remember at the time. He I wonder if that's Oasis Hill.
I wonder if it's that. I can't remember, but I know he was
a pastor there. Yeah, in Connecticut, right off of forty two,
by the Dairy Queen and you go down, make a right and it's like
by the train tracks nowhere, but I don't remember the name. When it
comes to food, I'm gonna know where everything's that. When it comes to
those are your landmarks? Is it? That's my landmarks? That's right,
every queen, that's right. So okay, well get it jumping very quickly,
and she say, for those who don't have the benefit of the visual,
just let me just let you know that our siblings look so alike.
You know, I'm looking at Andrew, I'm looking at Royal, I'm looking
at Shower of Sharon Tower, identical twins, but you can just see the
similarities and beautiful faces. And for those who don't have the benefit of seeing
that, I just wanted to throw in it. And they sounded like you
would have noticed that, just very very similar voices. Well it's really interesting,
you say that, said yeah, because they move exactly exactly. But
it's interesting. For many years there are so many. I don't think Samantha
and I look alike. I think we probably have mannerisms that are similar.
We probably sound quite similar. But for many years people didn't know we were
sisters, to a point that we actually started a Facebook a Facebook page or
something that said pictures of us and been like, yes, we're your sisters
because it sits together and suddenly realize, oh wow, you two are sisters.
It's like yeah, I mean, and then they'll be like, yeah,
you look alike. It was like, I don't think we do,
but you think you think that's just what features. I'm sorry. I was
going to say for the for the sake of the listeners, because I almost
end on a guess the sibling if someone said something, I guess who the
sibling is. So it's about the tellers, Okay, from your perspective,
and I put it out there as well, what would you say our relationship
has been like her sisters? Yeah, so, I mean I think when
we were younger, we definitely had a you know, challenges, and I
think, you know, being the second child, obviously there's a person already
in place, and I often wished I was actually, you know, older,
and you know, I felt like at times I was missing out on
things and Angela would go off and kind of do stuff with their friends,
and I was having to you know, stay at home because parents would be
like, nope, nope, you know, old enough yet to go often
do that, and so then I felt like I kind of you know,
got a big, big for my boots kind of thing. And often then
we're you know, back chat and we fought. We did fight, and
so I would say that to be honest, as you know, younger children,
we didn't really get on. We did it, we argued, and
there was our thing. But I think has been interesting is that, you
know, obviously then Angil left, she went to university, and now I'm
at home, so I'm obviously getting you know, more of the attention from
the parents. And then eventually I went off went to university as well,
and I think, you know, during that time, we got much much
closer. And when we reflect, like it wasn't seen losing our dad and
you know, just going through kind of just different challenges has really you know,
kind of brought us closer. So I would say, right now,
you know, we're really close. I mean, it's not probably a day
that doesn't go past where we don't speak and you know, phone in like
a couple of times a day and things, just checking in and if I
can't get hold of her, I'm like what because you know how Angela can
be with her phone. Okay, say no more? All right? Yeah,
So we're really close now and just like got this really great like friendship
and you know, sisterly bond, which you know, I wish it was
there when we were younger, but then sometimes things happen for a reason,
and then you know, circumstances, you know, just change things that you
know, you get closer. I think definitely, And I think Andrea and
Real you were saying the same similar sort of thing in terms of the age
difference. I guess at certain points the age difference seems I mean, there's
only what four and a half years between us, so it's didn't see that
big, but at certain ages it seems very vast. So yes, for
me, probably when I was I don't know, late teens, early twenties,
it was just like I've got this younger, annoying sister who wanted to
with me all the time, but I was like no, you know,
but as we've got older, I guess that kind of age difference narrow seems
to narrow and really doesn't make a difference anymore. You know, we kind
of hang out, We've got a similar circle of friends. I think what
was really hard for me is when Samantha actually moved abroad, it was like
part of me has left me, or she has left me literally, you
know, And that was really hard because again, you know, that kind
of bond that you have, you lean on somebody, somebody's always there,
suddenly isn't there. And I've had to kind of be like, Okay,
you've gone. But you know, the beauty of technology is that we can
still stay connected, you know, and I had to develop that and as
obviously you know, similar traumatic experiences, you know, bonding even closer to
that, as you've said, you know, has been a beautiful thing.
And even now, you know, still stuff going on. You know,
Smantha is always there listening to me, ranting, you know. And it's
interesting as much as it's funny, because you're saying that we used to fight
a lot, and one was thinking, I almost don't remember that, except
I do because I have a few scars. I I remember I have a
very long scar on my leg, which I cut, interestingly with a razor
blade. But Samantha and I kind of made up this story that we'd actually
been fighting. We hadn't been fighting at this point, but I guess because
we fought a lot, it somehow seemed believable. It really wasn't believable,
but that's what we told up. It's kind of thing to sort of stop
me from getting into trouble. But yeah, I look back and I feel
like I don't really remember those times necessarily. And Alison, we haven't really
touched on the whole idea of conflicts and stuff, and you know, coming
very close to the end of the show. But interestingly, and Andre said
this at the beginning. When we think about our biblical examples of siblings,
a lot of them really aren't very positive relationships. There was a lot of
in fighting. I mean, I guess the first murder in the Bible was
between brothers, you know, imagine that. And sometimes it's really sad to
hear when people when siblings do have conflicts. You know, that's natural parts
of life, I guess, but to a point where they're going to cause
harm or in canaan Abel's case, actually kill one and you know, they
killed one killed the other, you know, yeah, totally to get to
that point. So how could you know, how could I mean, obviously
conflict resolution, there's many factors to that, but how can I guess parents
encourage that sort of I don't know, could you call it positive conflict or
been able to resolve things? You've touched on that before. But as we
get older as well, which sometimes our life choices in the past we go
can often be the cause of the conflicts, how can we approach that?
And especially you know, we're people of faith that you know, actually we
can kind of draw on those experience as well to help with that. I
mean, I think most family is have at some point will have dysfunction,
and if you've got siblings in families, those siblings might face conflicts at some
point. I mean, when Samantha talked about you fighting with you, that's
like seventy four percent of young siblings fight, you know, have like arguments
with each other. I think something in the range of like fifty percent have
like pushing and hitting, and and then there's like it's slightly less percentage that
have actually had physical fights with each other. And it doesn't necessarily mean that
the siblings don't love each other. You know, that's the irony. Siblings
will have disagreements because as soon as another child is born the older siblings is
that as a threat because you've got now, you know, more than one
person find for the parents' attention, you know, and there's a sense of
insecure charity. And the parents, like you are alluded to Angela, have
a lot of responsibility in ensuring that they create a safe space for each child.
So having one to one time with each of their children, getting to
know that they want one basis, making time for them, validating how they
feel, and not dismissing how they're feeling, involving older child, like with
the case with Andrew, to look after the younger sibling. All of that's
really important because there then to be part of a community. Having said that,
people are different, and part of the reason why there's conflict is because
people have expectations that are not met. Now, if you're living your little
bubble, you don't have all of the social skills that you need to relate
effectively at every level. So you're in that process of learning. You're going
to make mistakes, You're going to have certain expectations. Other people are going
to have expectations, and that's part of me that wants to kind of say,
you know, parents should try and get help when they know that,
you know they're going to have children, Try and get some parents in classes,
try and you know, get some outside help, just to have an
idea of how to navigate these relationships within the family, because it's very important
that we are aware as parents that we need to give each person their time.
We need to make each person feel validated and feel special, and I
think when we do that, the siblings will will kind of learn from that
behavior that's being modeled by the parents. If you give all the attention to
one child. So I'm thinking of Joseph in the Bible. We all know
the story of Joseph, hopefully, and you know, it's not that Jacob
didn't love other sons, but he loved one a lot, and he showed
a lot of favoritism to that one and look what happened. So it's not
that the Yeah, it's not that the other siblings didn't like Joseph. It's
just because they felt belittled, they felt dismissed. And I think that's the
responsibility that parents have to validate each child, to take time to get to
know each child, but then also to prepare their children for disagreements. So
when the disagreements happened, listen to each person, validate each person, and
teach them how to negotiate, compromise and meet each other halfway. And I
asked a very great question, Alison, how much of conflict resolution between children
should a parent get involved in? And I know you've got five minutes.
I don't know if that's a big question to unpappen, but how much it
should should you get involved in as a parent, or how much do you
leave for the children to I think when the children are a lot younger,
I think you absolutely should get involved and teach them how to be because they
don't know. As they get older, tell them you know if you do
this, if you take this action, there's going to be consequences, good
or bad. So you know you can go ahead and share, and you
can go ahead and refuse to share, but just remember, if you don't
share, don't expect the other person to want to share next time when they've
got So there's consequences to every action. Obviously, there are limits. Obviously
we need to have boundaries around everything. If something's very serious and one person's
going to really harm the other person, or the state of mind is not
clear enough to make the right decisions, then you do have to step in.
But I think as the when the children are young, say between one
year old and five years years old, you have to teach them, literally
have to teach them. As they start to get older, you sit them
down and tell them, well, you've got choices, you can you can
make your decisions, but just bear in mind the consequence of this decision could
be a B C D for this other decision could be E F G H.
So that they're clear about so they can negotiate as well, because they
need to lend that as well. So you're doing yeah, because I was
as you asked before you ask the questions, and I was actually thinking the
same thing, especially siblings that are close to each other. But my two
youngest they are because thieves, they're right okay, but as tight as they
are, they fighting just as ferociously. And it's it's it's a kind of
fine line knowing when to get in there and just step out and let them
learn how to navigate those conflicts because they will have them. It's inevitable,
and like Alson is saying, guiding them alone, sometimes you have to be
like a like a referee. Okay, you're trying to talk. Okay,
now you're trying to talk. And let them learn to listen to each other,
hear each other, and find figure out what's going on, and learn
to those tensions because and you can't always jump in because they if anyone were
to attack the brother, the sisters going to jump into fight and vice versas.
All they have each other's backs, but they also have these conflicts and
they finds a bit more when the parents are around. So you have to
learn to understand what those fights are about. What's triggering those fights. Is
it just fighting for what you think they're fighting about, or is there an
underlying reason why they're fighting. Oh that's that's a good one. And you
know what this is. This is gearing up for part two. I think
start kicking each other. They always pushing each other, buddy. They always
know exactly what to say to the next person. I think, I think
we're gonna have to get you you all back on for a part two because
I think the whole conflict within siblings I think that's a whole nother that's a
whole other show, I think. So yeah, we're coming with the time
has spent, the discussion has been fantastic, and it's been great to have
you all on this show today. And I'm kind of serious about the part
two because I think there's a lot to be said. There's so much that
we can talk about, and as Alastair you said after, the sibling relationships
aren't necessarily talked about as much interestingly enough actually, so I definitely think there's
a lot more we can unpack here. So I want to thank you everybody
for listening, for joining us. I'm gonna we're going to end with the
prayer. There was so much more I could say, and I appreciate everybody
coming on. Sam. We know we're going to talk a little bit more
about other dynamics as well, but we will save that for part two.
Andre I understand you've offered to pray for us to close us out, So
I thank you for listening and joining us. So let's pray the heaving Father.
We thank you so much for the gift of love, for the gift
of family, the gift of siblings. We thank you for this opportunity where
we can learn to practice self sacrifice, the practice humility and respect. Repeat
that you will be with each of the siblings present here as we continue to
grow in our relationships with each other and with you until the next time where
we can learn more about how you've taught us to reserve conflicts, to resolve
conflicts and live life in love and you know the most. Thank you for
a father and Jesus name. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining
us. It's been talking point. It's been great for joining to joining us
and do listening for the rest of the weekend shows. Tomorrow, I'm going
to play us out on another Sisters step Sisters, the Clark Sisters with their
song Blessed and highly Favored. As we said, brothers and sims, sisters
are a gift from God and they value all their relationships you've had here.
So thank you for joining us. It's been talking point from me Angela Dania
and for all our guests. Thank you. Have a good night, Thank
you bye everyone, Bye bye. Adventist Radio London inspiration for the song