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now. Yeah wow, Well,
welcome to episode forty three, Ladies and

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gentlemen of Down souths Anomalies for the
one and only Untold Radio Network. Of

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course, my name is Jay Katz
and with me as my beautiful wife Aspasia.

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And before we start with our profound
guest today, someone we've been trying,

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we've working on, we've been dripping
water on the head of to get

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onto this program. And we are
so excited because this gentleman is up there

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with John Mack and Richard Dolan,
so centered as the most correct moral compass,

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and is so calm in his approach
to research. It is profound,

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that is Shane Ryan. But before
we start, we must always say that

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we are broadcasting on stolen land.
We much appreciate and respect our indigenous culture.

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It is the Gatigal people of the
Order nation, and we are to

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acknowledge Elder's past, present and emerging
and why wouldn't you say yes? And

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our guest tonight is a teacher,
researcher, writer, lecturer, and he

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is a parliamentary public servant. He
is the lead investigator for one of the

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most profound UFO cases in the world, just not the continent. It is

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one of the largest eyewitness cases to
do with school guards that you could ever

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imagine. And we are really humbled
and very grateful to have this gentleman with

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us. So welcome to down South. Anomally is Shane Ryan. Thank you.

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I feel like I can almost leave
now. That was such a wonderful

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introduction. Thank you so much,
as Pascia and Jamie. And I'm coming

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to you from the lands of the
Nunawall and the Nyambre people's here in Canberra,

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and I pay my respects to their
eldest past, prison and emerging as

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well. And I'm feeling pretty centered, pretty relaxed. I've got my Ukrainian

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vodka here master Razing masquerading as Canberra
Water Cambra Water. But anyway, I

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love you for that statement. That
statement is absolutely brilliantly profound jee wiz.

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I mean, what do you do
as a parliamentary public servant? I'm sure

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lots of people would be very cure
is to what that role is. Well,

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you know, when I was growing
up in Shepherd and in Northern Victoria,

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way back in the nineteen seventies,
I never really imagine that I'd end

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up living in Canberra and working in
Australia's Parliament House. It didn't exist,

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of course in Canberra at that point, not New Parliament House. It was

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Old Parliament House when I was a
kid. And New Parliament House of course

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opened in Australia's bi centennial a year
in nineteen eighty eight, and I think

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I was probably still at UNI at
that point. But anyway, years later

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I found myself, as some people
sometimes do, ending up living in Canberra

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and working at Parliament House. And
I work in the area of education and

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visitor Services. So it's my job
to be one of the happy, smiling,

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welcoming, lovely friendly staff at Parliament
and we work with all of the

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visitors who come in the literally hundreds
and thousands of school children. The VIPs,

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well everyone's a VIP of course,
but sometimes people are technically and officially

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VIPs in terms of visitors from embassies
and overseas, parliaments and the general public.

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And we try to inform and teach
people, educate people about Parliament,

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how we do democracy in Australia,
how the parliamentary processes work when they do

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work, which hopefully is most of
the time. And it's a privilege to

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work in such a place and to
live in this beautiful city of Canberra.

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You must have met some astounding people, you know. That must be a

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very life affirming job, especially when
you've got children going into Parliament House it

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would be so exciting. And you
spoke before to us about the fact that

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you had done some teaching with children, so it's a really your wife to

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us as well. It's a really
found profession. It is very important.

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It is so important, you know, Shane. It's an odd thing,

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the Westall case, and I know
you probably said it a thousand times before,

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but for our audience at listening and
viewing, I'll get you to run

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through the basics about that case.
But when I was going to school at

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our harm and public school, and
I'm very curious if you've had any knowledge

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of this there was an incident in
my public school that only sort of triggered

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me years later into remembering. And
we had a couple of football fields adjacent

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to the schoolyard. It was lunchtime
and all the children were running towards the

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paling fence. Now I know really
became aware of the absolute, devastatingly incredible

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case the westall is. I saw
Rosie Jones's documentary. Of course she contacted

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us before that because of our film
collection that we've got to see if we

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had any footage, And I was
aware the Bill had made mention of it

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in the Odds Files. But it
hit me so hard that documentary because it

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took me back to this moment where
at lunchtime we all raced to those paling

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fence with the support beams, and
we stood on the support beam and looked

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over and in the adjacent field was
this large white ball that we were told

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later was a weather balloon, but
it was hovering way too low and my

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memory way too long. It was
there for the entire lunchtime, and was

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still there when we're all called back
into class, And my memory is very

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blue because it becomes a memory of
a memory of a memory of a memory,

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and it didn't appear to be your
ordinary weather balloon, and it appeared

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to have some form of like windows
or portals, and I was confused about

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that. So the point that it
started me going to the library, now

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I must have been between ten eleven
years of age. It was coming in

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my final years at primary school.
And when I started looking at UFO literature,

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it astounded me that this was not
just a science fiction motif, that

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there were credential people throughout the world
that were drawn to investigate this subject.

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And I think that was the moment
that this subject became predominant in my life

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and led to a path of research
and lecturing and speaking about it. Now,

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you had actually mentioned, you know, that incident at school to me

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when we first met. Yeah,
yeah, so it wasn't so it was

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like we met in late eighties,
nine ninety and you know, one of

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the first things when we did start
talking about, you know, UFO is

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the subject of UFOs. You know, Jamie did recant that story to me

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about having seen something at the school, you know, but he he always

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asked every time he meets up with
someone from his school days back then,

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he always asks them and nobody has
ever There was one person, but I

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can't even remember who that person was. Yeah, but it's just yeah,

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And it's not that it's troubled me, but it's your film, Rosie Jones,

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is astounding documentary because I believe that
is one of probably the most important

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uphological documentary has ever made, so
beautifully done and from an Australian childhood the

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end of the Baby Boomers. I
mean, just the animation takes you back

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there, even if it's not about
investigating this found case. As a time

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capsule on life in Australia as an
adolescent in the sixties. It is really

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touching. And I've spoken to many
other people film historians like Richard Kuiper's the

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only Australian variety journalist who was the
original producer of Margaret and David. He

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felt the same way. It took
him straight back to his childhood and his

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youth at school. So I can't
thank you and Rosie enough for an extraordinary

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experience and a brilliant documentary. And
I believe that documentary was not easy and

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just coming to the final point of
my rant there, I'm astounded when I

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go up and look on ubiquitous sites
like Wikipedia, that there's no mention of

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view as a researcher when it comes
to this case, and there's not even

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a link to Rosie's documentary who wrote
that, Well, who are the gatekeepers

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of Wikipedia? We've got to find
out about Wiki. But I wanted to

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make that statement to you that that
film, to me, will outlive us

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all. It has incredible resonance,
and it is a fascinating time capsule on

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our lives, and just emotionally that
notion at school where you sort of should

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I jump over the fence and really
look at this or am I doing something

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wrong? And then that also the
powable authority to tell you that you don't

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know what you saw, what you
experience. Have you ever been made aware

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of a case at our time in
public school in the sixties, Well,

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I have now, and I'm absolutely
and I'm really interested to hear more about

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it. But it's interesting because in
the course of my research, since west

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Or sixty six, a suburban UFO
mystery Rosie Jones documentary that you've just talked

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about came out in twenty ten,
I've been contacted by literally dozens and dozens

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and dozens of people with their own
UFO sightings from over the years in Australia,

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and a good chunk of those have
been school based sightings. People contacting

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me and saying I've seen something on
TV or on line about Westall, but

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did you know about this one?
And of course it's usually the case that

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I knew nothing about that one.
And at the moment, I've actually got

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a list here of some of those
schools school sightings that people have talked to

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me about have shared with me,
and it's ten schools, not counting Westall,

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just in Victoria alone, and four
other schools in South Australia and now

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one school in Sydney and New South
Wales called our Taman that people have mentioned

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to me, and to varying degrees, I've tried to chase up information about

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some of those. There's one in
particular, killer that just came onto my

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desk in the last power month also
was not Oh hang on, yeah,

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just keep going. What's happened?
Is Jamie? Okay? Yeah, yeah,

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yeah, she's just realized that our
our is not plugged in properly coming

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and if we lose you just hang
there because we'll come back. Okay.

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So so right here, where is
it. Have you got it? Okay?

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Okay, whoa okay? That we
did that once another time our it

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wasn't the power point wasn't plugged dead
and we lost power. It's given me

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a bit of hairstyle doing that.
How to she fear I'm sorry about.

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We were actually holding together our our
palette then it all fell the bits on

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it. My apologies. Can we
resume? Yea, No, It's a

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good analogy for human life and how
we all are all just hanging in there.

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That's right. But I was saying
that. Just in the last couple

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of months, our new case has
come onto my desk. Somebody contacted me

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saying, I've read about the Westerll
case, but do you know about this

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case? Another case. It happened
in Melbourne in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne

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at a place called Bennett's Wood in
the suburb of Burwood, around the same

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time as Westall nineteen sixty six or
so. With so many elements in the

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story that are common to what happened
at Westall that it makes one wonder what

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on earth was going on in those
years. Was there something objectively happening that

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people were seeing that links all of
these different cases together or is it more

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a comment on the subjects themselves,
not the subjects in terms of what was

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being seen, but what was doing
the seeing, what was doing the looking,

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And of course I'm talking about us, the people, the witnesses.

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And I like your comments about Rosie's
documentary because I mean, I'm in the

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documentary obviously, and I'm one of
the subjects of the film. But I

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didn't know what Rosie's documentary was going
to be like until it was made and

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then she she shared it with me
before it was broadcast on TV in twenty

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ten, and I like you,
I mean, in a way, the

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UFO subject is obviously the subject of
that documentary, but it's almost tangential to

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the other subjects in that film,
which are the time, the era,

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the way that society was working,
the way that authority work, the way

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that Melbourne, Australia looked in nineteen
sixty six, the music, the landscape,

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the vehicles. And when I saw
Rosie Jones finished film as well,

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it took me back as well to
that era. And I have a really

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strong interest in local history, Australian
history, and for me very much,

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my whole research project around Westall has
been very much a local history project.

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It's about that oral history, capturing
that oral tradition before it's completely lost to

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the sands of time. And particularly
with a UFO story, often very little

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of a UFO story is preserved.
Very little is recorded in the newspaper on

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TV. Nothing official is often findable
about a UFO incident. But the real

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what's the word, the flavor,
the tenor the the really delicious elements of

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the story, of course live in
will live on in people's memories. And

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that's why I find talking to people
recording their memories, recording their experiences,

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their emotions, their emotional reaction to
what happened at the time, their emotional

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reactions to it. Now, that's
really important stuff. And I feel like

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I've been in a very privileged position
to play a small pardon in doing that.

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Well, I don't think. I
think you're an extremely humble researcher,

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and you're meticulous and integrious, and
I don't think that that documentary would have

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worked without both of you. You
carry and guide the listener in the view

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through that film so calmly, so
patiently, that no matter who you are

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or how you're approaching this subject,
you have to keep an open mind.

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One of the most astounding things for
me is that it starts when you're speaking

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about your own children as a parent, and it's really important, you know,

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how do we judge the credibility of
these stories? And nine times out

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of ten in the public arena,
it's based on supposedly the integrity of the

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witness But I really believe that up
there with all the technological get gadgets of

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an F eighteen super Hornet pilot,
that you couldn't get more honest witnesses than

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children. Now, people that haven't
had children might not agree with that,

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but children have no veneer. There's
no reason for them to lie. They

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have extraordinary imaginations. But when they
state something to you that has affected them

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emotionally, nine times out of ten
they are telling you the truth. And

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these are not just single children witnesses. These are multiple witnesses in their hundred

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and then backed up in the arena
of authority, and authority, especially in

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the sixties, always had a tenure
of fear embraced around it. That's the

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way, that's the system we came
from. And as you've stated in the

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documentary, in that time it was
an extremely English tempered Australian regime which was

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very dry and very austerem so children, you know, are not going to

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be swayed to saying something that they
don't know. But what I think you've

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done there is offering witnesses a sense
of catharsis and conformation. So it's more

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than a documentary to me. It
is not just a brilliant time capsule.

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It is extraordinary therapy where a community
comes together the hell over something that's difficult

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to explain and has been ridiculed in
the outside world. So congratulations to both

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of you. I don't think that
documentary would have resonated if it was just

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one of you. I think it's
in and I mean she's a great documentary

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maker on the Cult of the Family
and so many other things she's done.

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But you both seem to have found
an extraordinary chemistry to tell the truth of

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this tale, this profound story.
Thank you for saying that. I really

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appreciate those kind words. And you
know, Rosie Jones has a new film

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at the moment that's screening is part
of the Melbourne International Film Festival called A

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Babe The Butterfly Song, where she's
explored this interaction between an Australian music maker,

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musician and the pup New Guinean one, and it's screening at the moment

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in Melbourne as part of that festival. But Rosie has done so much beautiful

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work over the years. You mentioned
the Cult of the Family and the Triangle

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Wars. Before she did westvill sixty
six, she did my personal favorite,

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the Visions of Yanka Lilla looking at
this Anglican church in country South Australia where

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the Anglican priest and parishioners discovered what
they interpreted as a vision and imprint of

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the Mother of Jesus Mary on the
wall above the altar in the church.

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That was a wonderful telling of that
story, you know, however you approached

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the reality of the subject matter.
It was a beautiful retelling of that story

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and the personalities involved. And I
think, of course Rosie did something similar

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with the west Or story. And
you know, I don't know if people

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outside of the field of film and
television would realize that being a documentarian is

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probably the most unrewarding, financially and
difficult tapestry you could paint on in the

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world of the film. And I
believe it took Rosie quite a bit of

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time. When she phoned us,
it sounded like the production had actually been

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going on for quite a long time. Can you tell us what led up

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to it and the difficulties? Now, how long that did take for that

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thing to actually be shot and completed? Well, Rosie first approached to me,

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it was back in two thousand and
five, I think from memory,

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And what had happened was in two
thousand and five, I was having a

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bit of a one of my first
of many midlife crises, and I was

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in between jobs, I think,
and I was studying at the time,

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and I was working on an idea
of writing a book for kids, a

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book based on some sort of story
that would be really appealing to young adults.

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And I remembered this story that I
had heard about years before, that

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was the Westill Flying Source of Story, and I thought, well, maybe

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I'll look into that, because I
remember that it was a story that was

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based around two schools, had lots
of kids as its protagonists, if you

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like, and had that sort of
science fiction mystery elements to it, and

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I thought it would be appealing to
young adult and so I started doing some

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research into the topic. I got
some local media coverage in some local newspapers

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in and around Clayton in Melbourne,
where Westill is located, and that led

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to people contacting me, and it
eventually led to a rather large page three

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article in the Sunday Age newspaper in
Melbourne written by the Science editor of all

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People, and it was his take
on the story my research into it.

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Rosie Jones, of course, being
an avid reader of the Age, saw

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the story, contacted me, flew
up to Canberra from Melbourne. We actually

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met at the National Film and Sound
Archive around all that wonderful history and heritage,

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the Art Deco building the library there, and we talked and she explored

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my interest in the story, what
I knew about the story, why I

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was interested in it, what I
wanted to do with it in terms of

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my research. She went back to
Melbourne and a couple of weeks later contacted

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me and said, Shane, are
you up for getting involved in the mad,

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crazy, cashless world of making a
documentary? And she wanted me to

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know from the very beginning there'd be
no money involved. I wouldn't be being

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paid. She didn't think she'd end
up making any money, and I'm sure

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that's absolutely true, and it ended
up being this enormous four year effort for

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her and I guess a shoestring budget, borrowing money as all filmmakers do from

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various film funders Victorian and Australian,
and a lot of hard work and an

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enormous amount of time and effort on
Rosie's part personal effort. It involved people

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wonderful, people like Peter Zakharov as
the cinematographer, Mark Tarpey as the sound

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recordist. A Carmel mac Alarne was
the producer, and Rosie, like me,

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got hooked onto the story, obviously
the UFO element of the story,

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but the human elements of the story
as we together met these witnesses, witness

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after witness after witness, very down
to earth people who had had this profound

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experience as children or young adults.
Some of the witnesses, of course,

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were young adults in their twenties,
such as the science teacher Andrew Greenwood and

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some of the other people living locally
around the schools. And Rosie, liked

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me, I think, very quickly
realized that whatever was the provenance behind what

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had happened at Westall, whatever the
truth of it was, something had happened,

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and it was something quite unusual,
beyond unusual, really, and that

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it was something that really had a
lasting effect on many of the people who

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were there. And one of the
elements that Rosie was interested in was one

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that I was personally interested in,
was why that there had to be from

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the beginning and still now after all
of these years, silence. Why there

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had to be covering up of the
story. Why there had to be a

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certain amount of pressure apply to the
people who were there to keep what had

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happened at Westall at Westall and to
not let it be known beyond the confines

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of that time and that place.
And that intrigued me and intrigued Rosie.

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I guess I had enough irishness in
myself to really react against that and to

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want to get to the truth of
what had happened and why I couldn't be

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talked about all these years later.
You know, That's one of the odd

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issues here is I was astounded that
this case had been silent for so many

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years. In many ways, it's
allegorious to Roswell and the fact that there

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00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,319
were decades that went past when no
one spoke about this being so such a

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00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:15,000
mass eyewitness case and affecting so many
different demographics in age and across the beams

288
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there with science teachers and all of
a sudden this thing was silent to really

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00:27:21,079 --> 00:27:26,359
that documentary and Rosie brought it back
to life. You both brought it back

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00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:30,839
to life again and it's a really
really important case. And we're seeing people

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like James Fox now with the arial
school case in Zimbabwe and just and the

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incredible strength of the students against all
odds. I mean again, it says

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to me, like our soccer team
last night, no matter what, you

294
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just keep pushing forward. And some
of those young girls were so tenacious and

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pragmatic in the fact that they saw
what they saw, matter what was brought

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down on them, they weren't changing
their story. That is so life affirming.

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Yes, and I think picking up
on that theme of the Matilda's in

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the FIFA Women's World Cup for the
soccer and that terrible result that we all

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saw last night, not really terrible
because look when they had already been victors,

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but we would like to have beaten
our old friends, the English of

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course in the soccer. But it's
a new beginning for women's soccer and sports

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generally, I think in Australia,
and we've all loved watching that festival.

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But you know, I think the
Matilda's theme for me is the Australian element

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as it relates to what happened at
Westall. But sometimes I talk about the

305
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:52,680
Three Rs when it comes to UFO
stories, and what I mean is Roswell,

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Randallsham and Ruar, those three great
cases from three different countries from different

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years America, England, Zimbabwe,
and they all continue into this very moment

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that we're sitting in now as enduring
mysteries, even after all of these years,

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with all the witnesses that were involved
in those three cases, and those

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three cases are emblematic for lots of
others of course, thousands and thousands that

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have happened over the years, they
still remain unsold. They still remain stubbornly

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mysterious, all even after all the
energy and the time and the money and

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00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:38,680
exposure that's gone into them. And
Westall is quickly I think joining that league.

314
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I pulife, But as an Australian
I remember thinking when I started my

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research, I didn't want a UFO
incident in Australia to end up like one

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of these others in these other countries
like America or Britain, or Zimbabwe or

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Canada. For me, reflecting on
it as an Australian, I wanted to

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think, no, if something like
this happens in Australia, we are a

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society that's open enough, tolerant enough, honest enough, and casual enough and

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laid back enough, but we would
be able to get to the truth about

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something like this happening, and that
hopefully the Australian authorities, your Australian government,

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intelligence and military circles, would also
be open enough to actually enable someone

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00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:40,880
like myself or someone else to get
to the truth of the matter. Unfortunately,

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that hasn't yet happened. So in
that sense, Wester really has joined

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the league of all those other cases. And will it remain so forever I

326
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hope not. I think as a
researcher, particularly in a field like UFOs,

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00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,680
you have to be the eternal optimist. You have to think that your

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00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:11,279
efforts and the efforts of others is
actually making however incrementally it's making a difference,

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and that by chipping away at whatever
the stone is that we're chipping away

330
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:22,359
at, eventually the stone will crack
and crumble, and we'll all discover the

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00:31:22,359 --> 00:31:26,200
truth and whatever the truth is at
the end, we'll be able to cope

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00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:30,720
with it, hopefully one way or
the other. I think in many ways

333
00:31:32,559 --> 00:31:37,400
you have already made an extraordinary impact. And that's like in the statements for

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00:31:37,519 --> 00:31:41,119
myself to you today. We don't
realize, you know how much we've affected

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00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:48,000
people's lives with a piece of media
like this that can be cathartic and can

336
00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:52,000
actually help people. One of the
reasons why we got involved we both had

337
00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:57,559
a therapeutic background working with people who
have been heavily institutionalized. And I had

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00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:02,400
an experimental band with people on the
spectrum that couldn't play. We couldn't even

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00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,400
turn their cassios on in their nursing
homes, and I thought, the only

340
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:10,799
power I can give them this amplification
and let's embrace some realism and no one

341
00:32:10,839 --> 00:32:15,160
will question it. But it's that
thing of being able to release. We

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00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,319
all need to be able to release, especially something that troubles us. And

343
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:25,839
we were shocked at the amount of
post traumatic stress and post traumatic stress disorder

344
00:32:27,359 --> 00:32:30,720
from people that witness these things,
because how do you integrate this back into

345
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:35,640
your day to day life. How
do you live for an incident like Westville

346
00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:38,319
and then Westall excuse me, and
then get up and go to school the

347
00:32:38,359 --> 00:32:45,359
next day. It's sort of your
consensus reality has collapsed, and it brings

348
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:52,640
everything into question about what we're led
to believe is the three dimensional world we

349
00:32:52,759 --> 00:32:57,000
live in. And before we go
any further, I'm sorry about these bold

350
00:32:57,039 --> 00:33:00,279
statements, but I'm just so excited
to be talking to you. Can I

351
00:33:00,359 --> 00:33:06,440
just get you to lay out what
the Westall case was about. You have

352
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,559
some people in the States that watch
our show and people listening to on audio

353
00:33:12,279 --> 00:33:15,400
videos, So I'll just get you
to do that what you've probably done a

354
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:20,440
thousand times before you become the rock
star of Westall. Just keep going back

355
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,680
to your hits. That's right,
the best hits, favorite hits, the

356
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,519
only hits. Well, look,
I don't mind doing it at all because

357
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:31,559
every time I tell the story and
retell the story, and hopefully I do

358
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:37,960
it in a way that's correct and
fair, and I remind myself of the

359
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:43,559
elements of the story as well,
and it helps me to remember all of

360
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:47,640
those parts of the story. And
of course I do it in a way

361
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:52,640
that's imperfect. I do it in
a way that's not without errors, because

362
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:58,759
it's obviously a huge jigsaw puzzle,
and my job as the researcher as I

363
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:01,200
see this, to try to put
those pieces of the puzzle together in a

364
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:07,079
way that creates some sort of coherence, but knowing that I will be always

365
00:34:07,079 --> 00:34:12,519
doing it in a way that's not
perfect because of the role of memory and

366
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:16,880
the passage of time, and we
all have our biases and I'm no different

367
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:23,760
from anybody else. However, something
extraordinary actually did happen once upon a time

368
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:30,000
in a place called Westall, within
the community of the suburb of Clayton South,

369
00:34:30,039 --> 00:34:36,159
which is about twenty one kilometers southwest
of the Melbourne Central Business District,

370
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and at that time, in nineteen
sixty six Westall, and there's a lovely

371
00:34:40,519 --> 00:34:45,159
map of Melbourne, which was my
home for a while when I moved from

372
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:52,159
Shepperdon to Melbourne Together University, which
is when I first really stumbled across the

373
00:34:52,159 --> 00:34:55,400
west Or story. But west All
at that point in time was very much

374
00:34:55,400 --> 00:35:01,639
on the edge of suburbia. It
was partly urbanized, partly still very rural.

375
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Lots of market gardens industry was just
beginning to take place, the main

376
00:35:09,119 --> 00:35:15,400
residential areas of that suburb still hadn't
been laid out, and there were two

377
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:20,360
schools at the heart of Westall,
a primary school called Westall State School and

378
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,480
next door on the same block of
land, but a different school, a

379
00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:29,920
secondary school called Westall High School.
And on the sixth of April in nineteen

380
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,880
sixty six, which was the second
last day of term one, so the

381
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,840
very next day was going to be
the last day of school for both schools,

382
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,840
and then it was going to be
the Easter holidays and the term break

383
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,400
between term one and term two,
so about two weeks of holidays. But

384
00:35:46,519 --> 00:35:51,360
on that second last day, at
around ten to fifteen in the morning,

385
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:58,960
two groups of kids were out on
the playing field at Westall High School.

386
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:04,920
Another group kids were already on recess
at the neighboring primary school when something literally

387
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:13,760
out of the blue flew into their
lives, into their airspace, and a

388
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,079
large number of the kids, of
course saw it was right in front of

389
00:36:17,119 --> 00:36:24,119
them. Many of the kids not
all remember seeing three what they described as

390
00:36:24,159 --> 00:36:29,639
flying sauces, And that's why I
often refer to it as the flying saucer

391
00:36:29,679 --> 00:36:34,719
incident, because that's how it was
described that's how it was perceived. So

392
00:36:35,199 --> 00:36:42,280
one to three objects supposedly apparently solid, metallic looking silver gray in color,

393
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,159
like a bowl, sitting on top
of another bowl or saucer, something of

394
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:52,320
a dome or a protuberance on top
of the upper part of that object,

395
00:36:52,159 --> 00:37:00,480
silent or virtually silent, flying in
and then doing the most amazing maneuvers in

396
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:07,800
the sky, amazing in terms of
angles of flight, in terms of speed,

397
00:37:07,639 --> 00:37:14,840
in terms of the lack of noise, and visually astound there because the

398
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:20,159
shape bore absolutely no resemblance to any
known aircraft. And these kids and the

399
00:37:20,199 --> 00:37:28,679
adults knew planes really well because the
busiest airport in the Southern Hemisphere civil airport

400
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,480
at that time, was often referred
to as the one near the school,

401
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:38,400
a place called Morabin Airport, and
it was only about five or six kilometers

402
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:49,840
away, and the kids were constantly
seeing small aircraft like Cessna's or Piper cubs

403
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,199
doing their training runs over and around
the sky above the schools. So they

404
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:58,960
knew planes well, and they knew
that what they were seeing, these objects

405
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:05,920
were nothing like those planes. And
at some point many of the witnesses recall

406
00:38:06,639 --> 00:38:15,000
five what were obviously light aircraft like
Cessna's appearing, and it looked as though

407
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:22,119
the five light aircraft we're trying to
chase or track down these UFOs, and

408
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:28,000
as the light aircraft will get close
to the UFO, the UFO would just

409
00:38:28,599 --> 00:38:31,440
fly away at great speed. A
lot of the witnesses talked about looking up

410
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:36,719
the flying saucer as if it was
in the sky at one point, and

411
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,440
then suddenly, within a second or
two was on the other side of the

412
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:45,719
sky, as if as if it
had blinked off and blinked on again.

413
00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,480
That was how it looked to them, And doing all of these maneuvers again

414
00:38:51,559 --> 00:38:54,800
without any sound or very little sound
that they could perceive, and again looking

415
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,400
at them visually, nothing about the
objects appeared to have any attributes that you

416
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:07,480
would normally associate with an aircraft.
So there were no wings, there were

417
00:39:07,559 --> 00:39:12,719
no tails, there were no flaps, there were no engines or motors.

418
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:21,159
That didn't appear to be windows.
So basically the classic description given by so

419
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:28,000
many people in so many places of
a flying saucer. I think there's a

420
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:30,880
bit of a shot from the film, isn't it. So this is actually

421
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,000
a drawing that was done by a
wonderful researcher and friend of yours and mind,

422
00:39:36,079 --> 00:39:39,159
Bill Chalker, and almost making out
his initials down the bottom. Bill

423
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:45,440
did this drawing as he was or
after he talked with one of the witnesses

424
00:39:45,679 --> 00:39:51,519
who appeared in the documentary, a
witness called Victor, who himself was a

425
00:39:51,639 --> 00:39:54,840
very gifted artist at the time and
still is today, and who drew drawings

426
00:39:55,239 --> 00:40:00,239
of what he had seen. And
that particular drawing is Bill's interpretation and of

427
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,840
what Victor had described to him.
And Victor was one of the students who

428
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:08,079
had seen two objects. He saw
them up close. He jumped the wooden

429
00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:13,440
paling fence that was on the western
boundary of the schools where a lot of

430
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,840
the kids had a massed, and
he remembers at least one teacher as well,

431
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:21,519
and he jumped up on top of
the paling fence saw that there were

432
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:25,960
these two objects that you saw in
that picture hoovering just above the grass in

433
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:30,119
the paddock next to the school.
There were some kids who had already jumped

434
00:40:30,159 --> 00:40:35,880
over the fence before Victor did.
Victor did the same and walked up to

435
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:38,639
one of the objects, and he
went to put his hand out to touch

436
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:43,679
one, and then he realized there
was heat coming off the object, and

437
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:49,320
so he drew his hand back,
and then one of the objects rose up

438
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:52,920
into the sky and flew away quite
quickly, and then the second object did

439
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:58,199
the same, and as they did, he could see that there seemed to

440
00:40:58,199 --> 00:41:06,880
be some sort of rotate belt or
structure that seemed to be rotating at the

441
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,079
base of the objects that he could
make out as they ascended. And then

442
00:41:10,119 --> 00:41:15,519
they flew down to an area called
the Grange, which was an old farming

443
00:41:15,599 --> 00:41:21,760
area that at that point was quite
fellow, was only being used for bushwalks

444
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,559
and motorbike scrambles and cross country runs. It's now part of it is now

445
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,480
a nature reserve, and that was
where a large number of the kids at

446
00:41:30,519 --> 00:41:36,719
the schools saw at least one of
the objects fly down behind the pine trees

447
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:42,320
at the Grange and appeared to descend
as if it was landing, and some

448
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,239
of the kids took off. A
large number of the kids actually took off

449
00:41:45,599 --> 00:41:50,199
from the high school, not from
the primary school, jumped over the boundary

450
00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:54,480
fence, over the ditch the irrigation
channel or the sewerage channel that was at

451
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,880
the back of the school in those
days, across the dirt road, down

452
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,159
the dirt lane, through the market
gardens, chasing their quarry. Because they'd

453
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:08,639
visually seen the object go down,
they knew the area quite well, they

454
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:14,360
had a fair idea where it would
be, and off they went. Not

455
00:42:14,519 --> 00:42:17,679
many of the kids talk about getting
down to the area where the object had

456
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:23,519
seemed to land and find it there, but there were one or two who

457
00:42:23,559 --> 00:42:28,760
say that they did, and they
give, of course an amazing description of

458
00:42:29,119 --> 00:42:32,400
being again quite close to the object, one of the objects, at least

459
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,599
as it was sitting virtually in front
of them. They often talk about the

460
00:42:37,679 --> 00:42:43,280
kids who have this memory of seeing
the object land. Now they're not necessarily

461
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,920
literally remembering that it was sitting on
the ground, but as they looked at

462
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,159
it, it was close enough to
the ground that they imagined that it was

463
00:42:52,199 --> 00:42:58,679
either sitting on the ground or just
hovering gently above it. And there are

464
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:04,639
a few witnesses who have that amazing
memory. And then after all of these

465
00:43:04,639 --> 00:43:09,800
events happened, and the objects were
seen to ascend and fly away at great

466
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:16,360
speed, leaving those aircraft behind in
their wake, flying off so quickly that

467
00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:22,519
it made the witnesses perceive the relationship
between the flying sources and the planes,

468
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,400
as if the planes were just sitting
in mid air not moving because the flying

469
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:35,440
sources had such speed that they're vanishing. Was so almost instantaneous. And then

470
00:43:35,599 --> 00:43:40,639
over the coming minutes, following minutes
and hours, there was this response to

471
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:49,920
the schools, to the grange by
people in authority, police, fire brigades,

472
00:43:51,519 --> 00:43:57,559
ambulance service, civil defense organization and
the military, and all of this

473
00:43:57,639 --> 00:44:05,719
happening, unlike most UFO case,
is in broad daylight around ten fifteen mid

474
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:10,880
morning going into the afternoon, in
the suburbs of Australia's second largest city,

475
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:20,480
with literally hundreds of witnesses. So
do you know, yeah, absolutely,

476
00:44:20,519 --> 00:44:29,519
do you know if somebody rang all
those organizations like you know to response,

477
00:44:29,639 --> 00:44:34,039
yes, well, how did they
I don't know. I'm just trying to

478
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:38,000
work out how they knew to go
there and why why would they have gone

479
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:42,480
there? If they told everybody it
was just with the bulls, that's right,

480
00:44:44,199 --> 00:44:46,880
kill response, isn't it. And
that's and that's of course, you

481
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:52,760
know, part of the intriguing element
of the story is because unlike most UFO

482
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:58,159
stories, where there's no response or
the response happens, you know, days

483
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:04,360
later this response. According to some
of the witnesses, they remember the military

484
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:08,280
turning up within a period of about
twenty to thirty minutes. And so,

485
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:14,760
for example, a fellow called Paul, who was working as a market garden

486
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:16,840
hand at the time. He'd been
a kid, a student at Westall High

487
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:21,920
School the previous year, but he'd
left school and was now working for his

488
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,119
neighbor who owned some of the market
gardens at Westall. He was in one

489
00:45:25,159 --> 00:45:30,920
of those market gardens down adjacent to
the grange, helping his boss and another

490
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:36,199
fellow co worker pull up carrots or
getting them ready for market to take them

491
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:42,480
to the Queen Victoria Market in Melbourne, and he witnessed this UFO, this

492
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:46,920
strange flying source of shaped object coming
down from the north from the direction of

493
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:53,559
the schools, descending towards the grange, and as he watched it, it

494
00:45:53,639 --> 00:46:00,639
seemed to change from having an obvious
solid shape and look to it to becoming

495
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:09,880
more and more translucent, transparent,
and eventually virtually turning into a gaseous form

496
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:15,400
as it flew into the pine trees
at the grange. But as it flew

497
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:20,920
into the trees, the trees didn't
react. There was no movement cones leaves

498
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:24,519
didn't fall off. It literally went
into the trees, didn't come out the

499
00:46:24,559 --> 00:46:30,079
other side, and was gone,
And within twenty to thirty minutes, as

500
00:46:30,079 --> 00:46:32,599
he remembers it, And of course
the remembering of time is such a difficult

501
00:46:32,599 --> 00:46:36,679
thing, and you always have to
take these things with a grain of salt.

502
00:46:37,119 --> 00:46:42,159
But within a time frame, around
twenty to thirty minutes, he remembers

503
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:49,320
this small convoy of army vehicles turning
up in the farm adjacent to his boss's

504
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,079
market garden. A couple of lorries
with canopies over the back, a couple

505
00:46:54,079 --> 00:47:01,280
of land rovers, and these soldiers
jumping out of officers. Where would they

506
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:10,480
have come from? Good question,
Well, is there is you know,

507
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:15,079
a station where there they would be
stationed somewhere and a call would go out

508
00:47:15,119 --> 00:47:20,239
and then they'd have to drive barber. Is there like a barracks or you

509
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:27,480
know, it's like hell, you
know exactly. I mean, it's a

510
00:47:27,599 --> 00:47:30,760
UFO story. So nothing makes sense, of course, nothing fits together.

511
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:36,960
But no, there were army barracks
in Melbourne, in the suburbs of Melbourne,

512
00:47:37,079 --> 00:47:43,119
in several suburbs relatively nearby, but
all of those Army barracks were actually

513
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:49,920
Army reserve barracks. They weren't permanent
army barracks, and so no one was

514
00:47:50,000 --> 00:47:54,400
particularly not in numbers, stationed at
any of those barracks. So really the

515
00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:02,960
closest permanent large army establishment at the
time would have been somewhere like Victoria Barracks

516
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,639
in the city, so again about
you know, probably something like a forty

517
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:15,119
five minute drive from So the fact
that these vehicles and soldiers turned up so

518
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:24,840
quickly, lens I guess, leads
one to believe that somehow something had been

519
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:30,119
seen earlier than what had happened at
Westall. The word had gotten out either

520
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:38,760
that or someone somewhere within the military
or somehow tracking what came down at Westall.

521
00:48:39,599 --> 00:48:44,840
Otherwise, it doesn't really make a
lot of sense, especially when they

522
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,760
said it was a weather balloon,
and so they don't dispatch a whole bunch

523
00:48:47,760 --> 00:48:52,000
of military people to go and what
check out a weather bone. You know,

524
00:48:53,199 --> 00:48:58,440
that's true, and unless you know, unknown to us really as we

525
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,320
look back at it now as researchers
and historians, there was some sort of

526
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:09,480
rapid intervention team that had been assembled
for such a thing, and that's exactly

527
00:49:09,519 --> 00:49:15,760
what responded that day, we don't
have any evidence really for such a thing,

528
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:20,440
not in Melbourne, not at that
time, so that part of the

529
00:49:20,519 --> 00:49:25,199
story is still rather mysterious, of
course. But the witnesses who were there,

530
00:49:25,199 --> 00:49:30,320
like Paul and other witnesses who were
at the school, who saw the

531
00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:34,800
military turning up in the street in
front of the high school, coming onto

532
00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,639
the grounds of the school, walking
up and down the corridors at the school,

533
00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,159
the memory, the fact that there, that those sort of people were

534
00:49:45,199 --> 00:49:50,159
there is it's not a matter of
argument for them. They remember it so

535
00:49:50,239 --> 00:49:52,920
clearly. And of course for them
it was daunting, and it was and

536
00:49:53,000 --> 00:50:00,000
it was threatening, and it was
so unexpected. That's just astounding. It

537
00:50:00,079 --> 00:50:05,480
resonates with me. I did a
program for Rodeo Iron the nineties called to

538
00:50:05,559 --> 00:50:10,000
Catrifying stamp. I went out to
the Nulla bar and Mundrabilla and you know

539
00:50:10,280 --> 00:50:15,559
the Noles case out there of the
family of four that were picked up off

540
00:50:15,599 --> 00:50:20,599
that air highway in that area.
You know, it's been disputed many times.

541
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:24,199
Lots of really good researchers have actually
said, well, they hit a

542
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:29,519
cattle ramp. It's quite amazing to
me that you can blow a tire on

543
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:32,280
the Nulla bar and within a very
short amount of time, all of a

544
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,679
sudden, federal police appear, and
federal police with American accent changed your tire.

545
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:45,400
It's just it, credulity just sort
of goes out the window and you're

546
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:49,679
left scratching your head. Because I've
heard people that I have respect for as

547
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,840
researchers just go, you know what, I can tell you something, Shane.

548
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:59,360
There is no cattle ramps out there. That is the driest, harshest

549
00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,360
land, and there's no way you
can graze cattle on it, and that

550
00:51:02,639 --> 00:51:07,639
that land is covered in strictnine because
you know, back in the eighteen hundreds

551
00:51:07,679 --> 00:51:13,519
they would told that you can resolve
your indigenous problem anyway you wish. You're

552
00:51:13,519 --> 00:51:16,039
out of sight, out of mind. So it's not somewhere where you can

553
00:51:16,079 --> 00:51:22,440
graze cattle easily. And so yeah, I mean I shouldn't extrapolate too much

554
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,519
from those points, but it's a
point of frustration where you just go,

555
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,679
something else is occurring him. And
when we look at this map, I

556
00:51:30,679 --> 00:51:34,400
think the grange it's very oblique when
I pulled this up, but we're sort

557
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,360
of dead center in there around the
grange. Now, Maravin airport has been

558
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:45,039
you know, brought up many times
and it features heavily in the Frederick Glenti

559
00:51:45,199 --> 00:51:49,960
case. You know. So it's
an interesting area. It's an area again

560
00:51:50,519 --> 00:51:53,639
and we might do this without much
clarity, but you could deem as an

561
00:51:53,679 --> 00:52:00,599
area of strange high strangeness, and
events like this are not well, events

562
00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:05,960
like west All are uncommon, but
anomalous events in that area seem to be

563
00:52:06,119 --> 00:52:09,519
fairly ubiquitous at times. And especially
I've spoken to many truck drivers in that

564
00:52:09,639 --> 00:52:16,199
area and these are tough people that
are working really hard schedules and there are

565
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:22,920
certain truck stops they will not stop
for the amount of enormous experiences they have.

566
00:52:22,599 --> 00:52:25,960
The might start off as a minmon
light signing and turn into a massive

567
00:52:27,039 --> 00:52:31,800
viewer foe encounter. Yes, absolutely, And as I mentioned earlier, since

568
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:37,880
Westall came out as a documentary and
the other pr that's been around the Westall

569
00:52:37,920 --> 00:52:43,559
story since then, of which there's
been quite a bit on TV and newspapers

570
00:52:43,559 --> 00:52:46,960
and magazines and so on, I've
been contacted by so many people with stories

571
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:52,119
and lots of stories that come from
even that part of Melbourne, Eastern Suburbs,

572
00:52:52,119 --> 00:52:58,440
Southeastern Suburbs, particularly in the days
back in the nineteen fifties nineteen sixties

573
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,880
when the place hadn't yet become as
urbanized as it has now, and there

574
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,519
were still lots of tracks of land
where people would go bush bashing, or

575
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:13,280
ride scramble bikes or go for country
drives, and people would see things,

576
00:53:13,320 --> 00:53:16,000
and lots of people have contacted me
over the years. But just to get

577
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:21,360
back to us Basia's question about how
did people know about what had happened at

578
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:25,119
Westall and respond so quickly one of
the teachers who was at Westall High School

579
00:53:25,119 --> 00:53:29,559
at the time, she said to
me. She was an English teacher at

580
00:53:29,559 --> 00:53:35,320
the time. She's since become quite
a well known children's book author, and

581
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,000
she doesn't have much time for the
west Or story herself. She didn't see

582
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:45,159
anything herself physically, however, she
did tell me that a couple of the

583
00:53:45,199 --> 00:53:49,480
girls had come up to her who
had seen something and they wanted to ring

584
00:53:50,079 --> 00:53:54,880
and tell the media about it,
and she gave them those two girls permission

585
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:59,719
to run down to the Westall shops
and to make a phone call from the

586
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,920
public the phone booth. She couldn't, they couldn't. They couldn't do it

587
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,639
from the school, they couldn't use
the school phone, and so off they

588
00:54:06,639 --> 00:54:09,360
went. They went down to the
phone booth. I've seen the phone booth

589
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:15,559
connection at the Westall shops. It's
still there. And that's where apparently Channel

590
00:54:15,679 --> 00:54:20,800
nine was called from, because in
those days phone booths were First of all,

591
00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:25,000
there were phone booths everywhere everywhere,
phone directories and you could look up

592
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:30,159
the number for Channel nine and ring
and that's what they did. And I

593
00:54:30,199 --> 00:54:34,760
eventually tracked down one of those two
girls, Eileen, and she confirmed,

594
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,280
yeah, yeah, I was one
of the kids who ran down to the

595
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:43,199
phone booth and running Channel nine.
And that's how Channel nine responded quite quickly.

596
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,400
But it took me years to realize
that even though I knew from very

597
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:53,199
early on the name of the journalist, the TV reporter and the cameraman who

598
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:58,840
did the story that went on the
Channel nine news that night in Melbourne and

599
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:05,719
read by that wonderful famous news reader
Sir Eric Pearce, I never, I

600
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:10,280
never, And that film, that
film from that new story is gone.

601
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:14,559
We can't find it. Roses looked
for it. I looked for it.

602
00:55:14,880 --> 00:55:22,360
Channel nine says they looked for it, that you were one of her last

603
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:27,559
great hopes, but no one seems
to find it. But what I never

604
00:55:27,679 --> 00:55:32,000
knew was that there had been another
cameraman, a Channel nine cameraman, who

605
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:37,599
had arrived there first before the reporter
and the other cameraman, and he had

606
00:55:37,679 --> 00:55:42,840
arrived there very quickly, and he
had a camera. He lived nearby.

607
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,599
He lived in the neighboring suburb of
Dingley, literally a ten minute drive from

608
00:55:46,639 --> 00:55:53,000
Westall he's still there today. And
his camera didn't have sound, so we

609
00:55:53,079 --> 00:55:59,480
only had film, but he filmed
enough. He filmed the kids from a

610
00:55:59,519 --> 00:56:02,840
distance. The school wouldn't let him
talk to any of the students, but

611
00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:08,000
he remembered, even after all of
these years, the effect the kids were

612
00:56:08,039 --> 00:56:14,800
showing, the effect on them emotionally, their reactions to what they had seen

613
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:19,039
and experience, And he got a
feeling for how big a story this was,

614
00:56:20,039 --> 00:56:22,559
breaking news, if you'd like,
we'd call it now. I guess

615
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:27,039
that he rang up Channel nine,
rang up his boss and said, please

616
00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:30,440
send out a crew, send out
a reporter, send out a cameraman with

617
00:56:30,559 --> 00:56:35,599
sound. We need to cover this. And so it just goes to show,

618
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:38,760
you know, you can spend years
and years researching something and then still

619
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:45,440
not have uncovered a really important essential
element or character piece of the jigsaw to

620
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:52,079
the story, like the original Channel
nine cameraman who after all these years had

621
00:56:52,119 --> 00:56:55,599
never come forward, had never made
contact with me, but still had these

622
00:56:55,639 --> 00:57:02,199
amazing memories of what he had filmed
and seen this film. What happened to

623
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:07,119
the film. It formed part of
the news story that night, so it

624
00:57:07,199 --> 00:57:10,280
formed part of the visual story.
The other story, the other film with

625
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:15,360
sound, was later added and it
aired on the news that night, right,

626
00:57:15,320 --> 00:57:20,440
but we don't know where it is
now. The film's gone. And

627
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:24,840
there wasn't there at some stage and
we knew David Lyle and there that was

628
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:30,480
running Channel nine for a while.
Yeah, and no it was nine,

629
00:57:30,719 --> 00:57:36,480
And wasn't there a story that they
actually came across the can but the film

630
00:57:36,599 --> 00:57:42,719
was missing. There was a search
done in the archives. Now I can't

631
00:57:42,719 --> 00:57:47,159
remember now whether it was the Channel
nine archive library in Melbourne or in Sydney,

632
00:57:49,000 --> 00:57:53,400
because sometimes film would go from one
to the other, and so I

633
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:57,239
literally can't At the very moment,
my computer is not working properly. I

634
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,719
can't remember this computer. I mean, I can't remember which archive it was.

635
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:05,280
But one of them was searched a
canister was found which had labeling on

636
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:08,920
it that referenced the Westall story,
but it was empty. And there had

637
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:14,480
been a story that had floated around
for years, and I still really don't

638
00:58:14,519 --> 00:58:17,880
know what the genesis of the rumor, if you like. All the story

639
00:58:19,159 --> 00:58:23,360
was that the then owner of Channel
nine, Frank Packers, of Frank Packer,

640
00:58:23,679 --> 00:58:28,440
the father of Kerry Packer, of
course, had asked for the film,

641
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:32,559
demanded at the film be sent up
to Sydney from Melbourne, and that

642
00:58:32,639 --> 00:58:39,760
that had been demanded on the request
of a federal government minister through Frank Packer,

643
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:45,800
and then from there the film was
then passed on to somebody or somewhere,

644
00:58:45,519 --> 00:58:51,480
and Ross Coulfhart, of course,
who's had a very long interest in

645
00:58:51,519 --> 00:58:53,920
the Westall story for a long time
and has done a few things in relation

646
00:58:53,960 --> 00:59:00,320
to UFOs you may have noticed over
the last few years, and of course

647
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:06,840
included the west Or story in his
wonderful book in Playing Site, and is

648
00:59:06,880 --> 00:59:09,199
a great friend of the west Or
story and has become a friend of the

649
00:59:09,199 --> 00:59:15,360
west Or witnesses as well. He
contacted the Packer family and of course he

650
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:21,280
has some contacts with them through his
previous roles with Channel nine through sixty minutes

651
00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:24,880
and so on in a current affair. And unfortunately, none of the surviving

652
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:30,400
members of the Packer family had any
memories of that story or what might have

653
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:37,159
happened. So if it ever did
happen in that way, it must have

654
00:59:37,199 --> 00:59:42,639
been kept very quiet. Yeah,
I'd say so he could have. You

655
00:59:42,639 --> 00:59:45,800
know, there there's so many things
that you can assume. But my wife

656
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,440
and I are film historians, and
we've given back to the ABC more loss

657
00:59:50,480 --> 00:59:53,400
television than just about anyone in the
country. And you know, we know

658
00:59:53,519 --> 01:00:00,440
that out there in that gray world
of the underground film collector that they turned

659
01:00:00,480 --> 01:00:04,559
into and the BBC's doctor who will
actually you know, tell you the truth

660
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:08,480
about that, they have turned into
the greatest the world's gratologists arts. So

661
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:15,159
I always, like yourself, hold
out hope that something like that could just

662
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:20,599
reappear one not being somebody's you know, collection, private collection, because a

663
01:00:20,639 --> 01:00:24,440
lot of a lot of that stuff
from television stations back in the day.

664
01:00:25,039 --> 01:00:30,360
They used to be sent to the
furnace because they didn't have the room to

665
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:34,599
turn copyright. Yeah, and copyright, but they but you know, news

666
01:00:34,599 --> 01:00:37,480
stories, their own news stories.
I mean, that's a lot of footage

667
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,639
to hold onto. You can't store
it all, so they used to send

668
01:00:39,679 --> 01:00:49,920
it to the furnace. But the
the sixteen millimeter film buffs would, yes,

669
01:00:49,960 --> 01:00:52,519
they would. They knew all the
guys that drove those trucks, and

670
01:00:52,559 --> 01:00:58,880
they would pay them and they would
They would not send them to the furnace.

671
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,360
They would sell them to these guys. And this is how a lot

672
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:07,719
of our you know, television culture
has survived because of those people. Otherwise

673
01:01:08,039 --> 01:01:13,000
it would have all been burned and
we would have nothing. We have a

674
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:17,760
sixteen mil print here in extraordinary documentary
that Roger Climson did in nineteen seventy five

675
01:01:19,639 --> 01:01:25,840
on Channel seven that has some remarkable
firsthand witness cases here in Sydney and the

676
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:31,440
Greater Australia. One day we'll have
to sit down and show you that believe

677
01:01:31,440 --> 01:01:37,960
it or not factual fiction. It's
called Here's My Heart Drive, There's My

678
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:43,559
Wife. There's actually no other print
of this. There's no other copy of

679
01:01:43,559 --> 01:01:46,280
this film we're aware of. It's
like a fifty minute, like a television

680
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:52,960
hour. Kevin Arnette, you'd remember
the wonderful Kevin Arnette. That Kevin Arnett

681
01:01:52,119 --> 01:01:58,480
was the guy who he was he
was that he used to I used to

682
01:01:58,559 --> 01:02:04,159
see him on John Lane. He
used to go on show and he used

683
01:02:04,159 --> 01:02:09,360
to always do stories that are on
on you know, UFOs and goes.

684
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:14,079
He was like it was like,
that's right. That was his name,

685
01:02:14,199 --> 01:02:17,199
Kevin Narnette. Yes, Wow,
you've triggered a great memory for we were

686
01:02:17,239 --> 01:02:20,199
trying to think of it. I
was trying to think of his name the

687
01:02:20,239 --> 01:02:22,119
other day and I just couldn't think
of it. Could you just go down

688
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:25,760
to that little news story there,
because I'm just showing you a case that

689
01:02:27,639 --> 01:02:31,440
this Bill Chalker has spoken about extensively. But this was two days before We're

690
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:40,280
still wasn't it? What's that right? The headlights being flat? We're at

691
01:02:40,519 --> 01:02:44,400
al right? Okay, got it? Oh Ron, it is up there.

692
01:02:45,480 --> 01:02:50,159
So that was the famous Burks flat
case from Victoria, Central Victoria,

693
01:02:50,760 --> 01:02:52,559
the fourth of April act in sixty
six. So yes, just two days

694
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:59,400
before the westvill incident. And the
main witness in that case, a lovely

695
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:06,400
fellow called On Sullivan, was actually
included in Rosie Jones Westall sixty six documentary

696
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:09,360
because of the timing. Obviously,
it happened in the same week, so

697
01:03:09,440 --> 01:03:15,559
close to what had happened at Westall
and Ron's now unfortunately passed away. But

698
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:22,960
Ben Hurl from the Victorian formerly the
Victorian UFO Action Group and now UFO VIC

699
01:03:22,440 --> 01:03:29,039
he along with the Victorian UFO Action
people have done recently over recent years a

700
01:03:29,119 --> 01:03:36,960
wonderful revisit and retelling of that bent
headlights at Burke's Flat Story and so there

701
01:03:37,119 --> 01:03:39,800
was, of course you talked to
wonderful researchers who have been at this for

702
01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:46,360
such a long time, like yourselves
and Keith Basterfield and Bill Schalker and others

703
01:03:47,280 --> 01:03:52,199
who remember that. You know,
the years around nineteen sixty six we were

704
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,920
quite a flat years. There were
so many things happening. There were the

705
01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:01,800
famous Tuty cases up in North Queensland
around Uramo and Tully. There was of

706
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:08,920
course the taking of the polaroid photograph, the controversy or polaroid photograph in Deep

707
01:04:09,000 --> 01:04:15,280
Dean in Ballwin in Melbourne by James
Kibble. That was just that was on

708
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,639
the second of April nineteen sixty six. So many things happened around that time,

709
01:04:19,559 --> 01:04:25,760
and Westall was part of that of
course, But because of the numbers

710
01:04:25,800 --> 01:04:30,679
involved at Westall, Westall really stands
out at such an unusual case, and

711
01:04:30,719 --> 01:04:38,320
the connection with television is so interesting
for me because I've spoke too that recently

712
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:44,280
found first Channel nine cameraman Ray the
original, the other cameraman that I've known

713
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:46,960
about for such a long time,
and the journalist, a very well known

714
01:04:47,039 --> 01:04:51,559
journalist for Channel nine call Gordon Lead
who started off his career in Melbourne and

715
01:04:51,599 --> 01:04:56,719
then moved a year or two later
to Channel nine in Perth. And I

716
01:04:56,760 --> 01:05:00,719
spoke to both of those men and
they both had clear memories what had happened

717
01:05:00,719 --> 01:05:05,800
at westall the stories that they had
covered as young reporters and camera operators.

718
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:10,840
But they both said to me when
I raised the issue of what on earth

719
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:15,320
has happened to the film? Where
did it go? And they didn't tend

720
01:05:15,440 --> 01:05:20,880
necessarily towards the conspiratorial because they said
to me so often, as you've mentioned,

721
01:05:21,280 --> 01:05:26,639
so much stuff just got thrown out. And at Channel nine in Melbourne,

722
01:05:26,679 --> 01:05:30,639
unfortunately, in I think it was
the eighties, there was an enormous

723
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:36,199
flood that happened at Channel nine studios
in Richmond that took out a big chunk

724
01:05:36,320 --> 01:05:43,119
of their archive. Stuff just got
ruined. And it's possible, it's possible

725
01:05:43,159 --> 01:05:46,800
that that's what happened to the Westall
film, but I live in hope of

726
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:54,920
course that s something survived because Kevin
Arnette years later did a segment on Westall

727
01:05:55,320 --> 01:06:00,000
and interviewed one of the original witnesses, Marilyn Eastwood, who was the young

728
01:06:00,079 --> 01:06:05,760
girl featured on the front page of
the Dandynong Journal, local newspaper at the

729
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:11,840
time in April nineteen sixty six.
She was a primary witness. She was

730
01:06:11,880 --> 01:06:15,320
one of the kids who tried to
give an media interview to the Channel nine

731
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:23,239
crew that arrived that afternoon and ended
up getting detention for it. Kevin Nnette

732
01:06:23,519 --> 01:06:30,039
interviewed her and that apparently not only
was filmed but aired presumably on Channel nine.

733
01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,559
It may have been a segment on
the Don Lane Show, but now

734
01:06:33,559 --> 01:06:38,960
it can't be found. However,
there are memories Bill Chalker and I think

735
01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:45,519
George Simpson remember that when Mike Willisy
was hosting a Current Affair, he did

736
01:06:45,519 --> 01:06:51,639
a story on a UFO gathering that
happened in Mount Gambia that I think happened

737
01:06:51,639 --> 01:06:56,719
around the same time as an eclipse
that was happening over Australia, and a

738
01:06:56,760 --> 01:07:00,840
couple of people like Bill and George
remember some of that original or Channel nine

739
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:08,239
westall footage from nineteen sixty six being
spliced in to that later a current episode,

740
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:13,599
but now that can't be found either. That gives hope, though,

741
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:18,039
and that makes me think that in
those days too, they would always make

742
01:07:18,119 --> 01:07:24,039
safety prints, two or three safety
prints of something, even a news story,

743
01:07:24,440 --> 01:07:28,480
just in case something happened, because
film was brittle, and your keeproscope

744
01:07:28,559 --> 01:07:31,840
in this stuff. So the possibility
of it being still out there is question.

745
01:07:32,039 --> 01:07:36,360
Someone's in someone's elf. I mean, we were uncovered, and I

746
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:40,039
think we can just let it out, the cat out of the bag.

747
01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:45,480
I mean a lot of that ABC
archival material we've found underneath Abduls on Cleveland

748
01:07:45,559 --> 01:07:53,719
Street by a little boutique company that
was renting to the public talkie talkie company.

749
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:57,239
And when they all came to an
end, and people who were involved

750
01:07:57,280 --> 01:08:02,000
in that, I think they worked
out that maybe Dad or I've been circumventing

751
01:08:02,000 --> 01:08:06,280
the truck with the slab of beer
from the atom of going to the Furtus.

752
01:08:06,280 --> 01:08:12,280
It all went down there and it
was buried underneath the road. So

753
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:17,279
I was driving Mission Beat then and
I actually in my lunch break between picking

754
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:21,520
up streak affected homeless people I would
be. I can remember getting a couple

755
01:08:21,520 --> 01:08:26,159
of homeless people in the van and
was covered in film reels. I'm going,

756
01:08:26,199 --> 01:08:28,880
you just have to deal with this, just hold on type to those

757
01:08:28,960 --> 01:08:32,239
film reels. So we were pulling
things out from there so it can end

758
01:08:32,319 --> 01:08:36,319
up in the wild as places.
That gives me incredible hope and you know,

759
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:41,680
we will be heat seeking missiles and
keep an eye out ourselves. Now

760
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,720
that we've reached this point, can
I just ask you, Shane, when

761
01:08:46,479 --> 01:08:51,239
when you started you and Rosie started
the documentary, did you put a call

762
01:08:51,279 --> 01:08:58,439
out for people to come forward to
be interviewed about Westall or how did you

763
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:04,119
get onto all those witnesses? That's
right, so even before Rosie made contact

764
01:09:04,199 --> 01:09:09,000
with me, I had started that
process, of course, and had already

765
01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:16,319
amassed a reasonable number of witnesses.
And that was through the group really early,

766
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:20,359
right, yeah, before social media
like Facebook, of course, so

767
01:09:20,399 --> 01:09:25,760
I did Yahoo groups and because that's
all that was available for me, it

768
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:29,359
was very much a learning process.
I was putting these feelers out into cyberspace

769
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:32,439
and trying to see if anybody would
pick up on the story. And people

770
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:36,399
did, but you know, it
was the local newspapers it was that article

771
01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:43,760
in the Sunday Age which led to
the number of witnesses sort of slowly mushrooming,

772
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,560
if you like, from two to
four to eight and twelve and fifteen

773
01:09:46,760 --> 01:09:53,399
and that sort of thing. And
then I organized a reunion, the very

774
01:09:53,439 --> 01:09:59,640
first reunion of Westall Witnesses in two
thousand and six for the anniversary of the

775
01:10:00,479 --> 01:10:03,800
and we had that at the Westall
Tennis Club Hall down by the Grange and

776
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:09,319
Westall, and I had some local
people helped me, and one of the

777
01:10:09,359 --> 01:10:14,600
most amazing helpers was a man who
at that point, I guess was in

778
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:19,520
his seventies, who had lived in
Westall all his life, and who had

779
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:24,399
a couple of kids who had been
at Westall State School as primary school kids

780
01:10:24,399 --> 01:10:28,920
at the time, and who had
come home with the story. And he

781
01:10:29,000 --> 01:10:33,560
was so intrigued by not only the
elements of the story but the effect it

782
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:39,319
had on his two kids that he
decided to go down a couple of days

783
01:10:39,399 --> 01:10:45,199
later to where apparently the flying saucer
had come down at the grange, and

784
01:10:45,199 --> 01:10:49,920
he took a mental note of where
he was standing and where he saw this

785
01:10:50,079 --> 01:10:57,520
huge circle of flattened grass at the
grange, and the two huge high tension

786
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,960
power pylons that he could see closer
to the schools from where he was standing,

787
01:11:01,279 --> 01:11:04,880
and he made that mental note just
in case in years to come he

788
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:10,079
would need to tell people where it
was that he was standing that day,

789
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:14,199
and so when we filmed him for
Westill sixty six, that's what he did,

790
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,760
and he took us back to the
actual spot as close as he could

791
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,840
make it. Obviously the landscape had
changed quite a lot over the years,

792
01:11:23,119 --> 01:11:27,439
but he use that memory of where
he had gone that day and what his

793
01:11:27,560 --> 01:11:30,960
kids had told him, and so
Norm was his name. He's since gone

794
01:11:30,960 --> 01:11:34,600
to God, unfortunately, but he
was such a great help to me to

795
01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:42,800
getting that reunion up and running and
getting the hall as a location. And

796
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:48,079
Norm bless his heart, had actually
written a letter to Kevin Arnette. Back

797
01:11:48,119 --> 01:11:53,399
to Kevin Arnette at that point in
time had a column in the New Idea

798
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:59,239
magazine and the column was always asking
for contributions. Do you have any stories

799
01:11:59,239 --> 01:12:05,640
about strange ghosts? Yawi UFOs and
Kevin Arnette wrote in, and he had,

800
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:10,079
and he kept the letter that he
sent to Kevin Arnette, and it's

801
01:12:10,119 --> 01:12:15,239
this beautiful two page document of what
his memory was of what had happened at

802
01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:18,880
Westall, what his kids had told
him, and asking Kevin Arnette if he

803
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:25,199
would consider taking it up as a
story now. He didn't ever get a

804
01:12:25,239 --> 01:12:29,439
response except one that said thank you
very much. Nothing became of it that

805
01:12:29,479 --> 01:12:32,359
he was aware of, except that
we later found out that Kevin Arnette did

806
01:12:32,399 --> 01:12:38,880
do a story with one of the
witnesses. So all of these wonderful connections,

807
01:12:38,880 --> 01:12:44,279
but that original first reunion in two
thousand and six was the first of

808
01:12:44,319 --> 01:12:48,119
several that would happen, and that
would eventually gather more and more people and

809
01:12:48,279 --> 01:12:57,279
raise the raise in people's consciousness the
fact that the strange event had happened and

810
01:12:57,319 --> 01:13:01,439
that it was okay if people wanted
to to talk about it now. Right,

811
01:13:02,039 --> 01:13:06,079
how many witnesses at the end of
the day do you attribute to this

812
01:13:06,119 --> 01:13:11,319
event? Well, Jamie, I'm
glad you've asked me that question, because

813
01:13:11,399 --> 01:13:15,199
right next to me, I have
this wonderful set of cheat notes, which

814
01:13:15,399 --> 01:13:21,960
is a document which I have which
I annotate every now and again because I

815
01:13:23,039 --> 01:13:26,880
have to update it with the number
of witnesses, because I tend to get

816
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,079
a new witness or a contact these
days, after all these years probably about

817
01:13:30,119 --> 01:13:34,039
one every two or three months.
Wow. But at the moment, I've

818
01:13:34,039 --> 01:13:39,640
got one hundred and thirty six witnesses
who were witnesses to the flying saucer or

819
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:45,119
flying sorcers at one hundred and thirty
six. Twenty two remember seeing more than

820
01:13:45,159 --> 01:13:49,279
one, and most of those twenty
two say there were three that they very

821
01:13:49,840 --> 01:13:56,319
adamant about that they saw. One
hundred and eighty five who saw the circle

822
01:13:56,479 --> 01:14:01,520
or circles that were left behind,
and there's a lucky number of seventy six,

823
01:14:01,560 --> 01:14:08,840
a subset number of seventy six people
who saw both the flying saucer and

824
01:14:08,920 --> 01:14:14,159
the circle or the trace marks left
behind. And I know from the records,

825
01:14:14,159 --> 01:14:17,399
the official records, that there were
about four hundred and eighty five students

826
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:21,920
at Westall High School at the time, and I've been in touch now with

827
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:28,359
about two hundred and twenty six of
those kids, and so almost half,

828
01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:34,560
and so I'm very conscious that there's
a whole cohort, maybe another two hundred

829
01:14:34,560 --> 01:14:39,880
and fifty people who were at the
high school still not mentioning the ones I

830
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:44,760
haven't contacted at the state school.
And I've been in touch with fifty seven

831
01:14:44,760 --> 01:14:47,760
of those primary school kids but there's
still a big chunk of both of those

832
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:53,840
cohorts I've not been in touch with, and I just know that there's a

833
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:57,720
whole lot of other stories out there. There will be people who remember it

834
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,600
differently, who won't remember it at
all all, and there'll be people who

835
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,880
have other aspects, possibly quite important
aspects to the story that no one has

836
01:15:05,960 --> 01:15:11,520
yet heard. And even though the
vast majority of people I've been in contact

837
01:15:11,560 --> 01:15:15,479
with have been very gracious, have
been very patient, and have been very

838
01:15:15,479 --> 01:15:20,239
cooperative, and almost going beyond that, they say to me, Shane,

839
01:15:20,520 --> 01:15:25,279
I'm so glad you've contacted me,
because at the time we were told not

840
01:15:25,359 --> 01:15:28,960
to talk about this. They asked
me, is it okay for me to

841
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:32,560
talk about this now? Or they'll
say I've tried talking about this over the

842
01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:36,840
years, but I get shut down. Even people within my own family or

843
01:15:36,840 --> 01:15:42,560
work colleagues just look at me strangely
when I tried to tell them what I

844
01:15:42,600 --> 01:15:46,199
saw at west All that day.
But there are some people, not many,

845
01:15:46,720 --> 01:15:51,119
but there are some people who don't
respond. And there's another smaller cohort

846
01:15:51,520 --> 01:15:58,479
of people who who respond, but
for them, they don't want to talk

847
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:01,319
about it very much. There's an
element of the story, whatever it is,

848
01:16:01,319 --> 01:16:08,279
whether it's fear or a sense of
ridicule or something traumatic perhaps, and

849
01:16:08,319 --> 01:16:12,319
they don't want to go very far
into it. And so like with human

850
01:16:12,359 --> 01:16:15,720
beings anywhere, like with any group
of witnesses, it's a real mixed bag.

851
01:16:16,079 --> 01:16:23,359
Sure, but what you've done is
an incredible community service and an extraordinary

852
01:16:23,520 --> 01:16:29,239
historical service. And for the world
of people researching the anomalous, which is

853
01:16:29,279 --> 01:16:34,960
made up by a large number of
people who've experienced a glimpse of another perception

854
01:16:35,039 --> 01:16:45,000
of reality, this is a profound
service that touches lives and gives people a

855
01:16:45,159 --> 01:16:50,000
sense that they weren't going mad,
they genuinely experienced something. And you know,

856
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:55,720
this story should be a massive worldwide
story. In many ways, a

857
01:16:55,840 --> 01:17:00,600
story like this good turn consensus reality
around. And one of the people at

858
01:17:00,640 --> 01:17:06,720
the time that fascinates me that you
brought into that documentary with extremely high credentials,

859
01:17:08,199 --> 01:17:13,960
one of the leading astrophysicists of the
time was James McDonald, a very

860
01:17:14,039 --> 01:17:20,079
straightforward, extraordinary human being. Andrew
Fuller has done a great service in putting

861
01:17:20,119 --> 01:17:28,560
this book out Firestorm, who fought
against such opposition to actually looking into this

862
01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:32,560
phenomena from a scientific perspective. And
look, this is not going to last

863
01:17:32,640 --> 01:17:34,840
long, I don't think, but
let's see if we can get a bit

864
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:42,479
of this up thanks to eyes on
UFOs, Eyes on Cinema, and you

865
01:17:42,560 --> 01:17:46,600
must know this fifty eight minute there
was a moment where he actually interviewed our

866
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:53,760
science teacher virtually at the time.
So let's just add that to the streams.

867
01:17:54,079 --> 01:18:00,760
Stay a discussion with mister Andrew Greenwood
in connection with the west All sighting.

868
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:06,840
So we'll just feel what it's about
here. It's light. That's a

869
01:18:06,880 --> 01:18:12,880
heck of a chair, but I
guess we can great. Yeah, I've

870
01:18:13,000 --> 01:18:16,960
read some of the material that Paul
and here and set me sorry not a

871
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:25,560
bit about it, but the data
grass you know, I'm going to remove

872
01:18:25,600 --> 01:18:30,760
it from there because people can go
to the side of it, and we

873
01:18:30,359 --> 01:18:33,800
need to put a link up to
Whistle as well. But it's on YouTube,

874
01:18:34,359 --> 01:18:40,560
no no where. Rosie is still
selling DVDs out there with extended footage

875
01:18:40,600 --> 01:18:45,399
I believe that's right, thirty minutes
of extra footage in a video book.

876
01:18:45,119 --> 01:18:50,399
And there's also a couple of study
guides that we're developed by the Australian Teachers

877
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:57,399
of the media to accompany the documentary. The documentary can be can be rented,

878
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:00,439
can be high or can be purchased, can be straight as well.

879
01:19:00,840 --> 01:19:05,520
Yeah okay, yeah, but make
sure if you're interested in this topic yourself.

880
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:10,439
For the filmmaker, it's not just
me having a look, because I

881
01:19:10,640 --> 01:19:14,439
know there's a lot of boodlegging out
there and you can easily watch that,

882
01:19:14,479 --> 01:19:17,239
but you need to watch the extended
version, and you need to make sure

883
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:27,039
that the filmmaker gets some little returning
documentaries balance in effort. Now, just

884
01:19:27,239 --> 01:19:30,439
digressing back to James and McDonald him. You know, the one thing that

885
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:39,079
really strikes me odd is that you
know what is happening today in the media

886
01:19:39,199 --> 01:19:44,039
that we're all aware of and ross
behind a whistle blower David Gruce there.

887
01:19:44,520 --> 01:19:49,119
I mean, let's go back to
nineteen sixty seven when McDonald was out here,

888
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:57,600
that he was supported financially by the
Office of Naval Research in the US

889
01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:00,800
to study the UFO phenomena. It
was not the reason he was out here,

890
01:20:01,560 --> 01:20:06,800
but he was looking into atmospheric disturbances
that could have led to the breakdown

891
01:20:06,800 --> 01:20:13,199
of the ozone layer there or whatever. But he was a highly credentialed individual.

892
01:20:13,840 --> 01:20:16,319
And I can remember you've probably seen
this as well, and I don't

893
01:20:16,359 --> 01:20:21,880
know whether it was with Bill Peach
from the ABC that there was a reasonable

894
01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:28,279
interview, but right at the as
McDonald leaves the studio and Bill Peach steps

895
01:20:28,319 --> 01:20:34,359
onto a supercar corner operated ride and
makes completely light of the situation, which

896
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:40,680
is really distressing that you've got someone
winting of that incredible credentials. And I

897
01:20:40,760 --> 01:20:45,560
have to thank Rosie in both of
you for including him in that documentary.

898
01:20:45,960 --> 01:20:50,279
There's an incredible archives out there of
James that has now been sequested into a

899
01:20:50,359 --> 01:20:55,760
library in the States. Look it
up because his level of research at that

900
01:20:55,880 --> 01:21:01,359
time is just astounding. And I
think about doctor James and McDonald a lot

901
01:21:01,399 --> 01:21:06,840
because I just imagine how things might
have been different now after all of these

902
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:12,920
years, if he'd survived, if
he hadn't passed away not that long after

903
01:21:12,960 --> 01:21:17,279
he came to Australia in apparently tragic
circumstances. And he was such a gifted

904
01:21:17,319 --> 01:21:21,319
man, and you know, obviously
like anybody, he had his flaws and

905
01:21:21,399 --> 01:21:27,640
his troubles, but he brought the
most energy, the most incredible energy and

906
01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:34,079
level of commitment and smart intelligence to
this subject, and he just wanted to

907
01:21:34,119 --> 01:21:40,239
tackle it scientifically in the same way
that any other question would be tackled by

908
01:21:40,319 --> 01:21:45,840
science. He wanted to do it
in a very a very proper, sincere,

909
01:21:46,199 --> 01:21:50,359
but open way, and to get
away from that ridicule, get away

910
01:21:50,359 --> 01:21:55,039
from the stigma, and say,
this is an issue. It's something that's

911
01:21:55,079 --> 01:21:59,319
happening in the real world, it's
involving real people. Let's study it like

912
01:21:59,359 --> 01:22:03,880
we would study anything else. Absolutely, and just like yourself, he had

913
01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:11,000
a very calm and clear approach to
things. He was a true gentleman and

914
01:22:11,079 --> 01:22:15,680
you can hear that in his interview, just an incredibly inquiring mind. And

915
01:22:15,720 --> 01:22:20,000
I get a feeling that they were
just getting worried that this gentleman brought so

916
01:22:20,079 --> 01:22:26,840
much credentials and information into the public
lighte that things were just getting a little

917
01:22:26,880 --> 01:22:30,039
dodgy. Now, can we go
up to our moving or go down to

918
01:22:30,079 --> 01:22:36,600
our moving bits and pieces? You
know, it's very how do you feel

919
01:22:36,800 --> 01:22:45,039
about what is occurring just briefly,
Shane in the media right now with Ross

920
01:22:45,119 --> 01:22:50,279
Coulter and our Leslie Keene and all
that stuff around David Grosh and you know,

921
01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:56,760
from our perspective as being therapists and
dealing with people with addiction issues and

922
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:01,479
all sorts of other baggage on board
Bard in light of what's come up with

923
01:23:01,600 --> 01:23:09,880
our sort of journalists out of the
Intercept, there can Clippenstein, I'm going

924
01:23:09,920 --> 01:23:14,399
to get that wrong, that name
wrong. I actually went into complete shock

925
01:23:14,479 --> 01:23:18,359
over that because I heard an interview
with John Grumall, Junior of the Black

926
01:23:18,439 --> 01:23:25,439
Vaults, which you'd be aware of
him with it is incredibly clear centered individual

927
01:23:26,079 --> 01:23:30,239
and in that Ken just at one
point said, well, the guy was

928
01:23:30,399 --> 01:23:34,760
drunk and he had mental issues.
And look, you know people who suffer

929
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:41,119
I mean, he had many tenures
out there in the battlefield, and you

930
01:23:41,159 --> 01:23:45,880
know post traumatic stress, post traumatic
stress disorder. These I mean, these

931
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:51,119
people are veterans and they're going to
suffer incredible moments that traumatize them. And

932
01:23:51,239 --> 01:23:56,439
I bet you can our journalists from
the Intercept has had a few nights on

933
01:23:56,520 --> 01:24:00,960
the ether as well and been drunk
before. And you know, you can't

934
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:06,119
define somebody by a moment, and
you can't define people by self medicating either,

935
01:24:06,399 --> 01:24:12,760
and it doesn't mean what they're saying
is wrong whatsoever. So I'm really

936
01:24:12,840 --> 01:24:17,359
shocked at that approach. That's taken
on whether it's a smear campaign or whether

937
01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:25,119
it's just a young journalist from a
very edgy new online newspaper trying to get

938
01:24:25,119 --> 01:24:30,279
the inside scoop on the dirt.
But I also think that the last thing

939
01:24:30,319 --> 01:24:33,840
that needs to be brought up is
the notion of people being on the spectrum

940
01:24:33,840 --> 01:24:40,680
and trauma that they'd suffered in life. And a lot of that conjecture sounds

941
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:45,920
to me as if it's hearsay going
from his wife's testimony to public police and

942
01:24:45,960 --> 01:24:51,600
medical records, and that's the wife
opinion in the moment of stress in a

943
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:57,720
family issue, and if people were
honest, probably happens to the majority of

944
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:00,960
us over the course of life,
whether we're come from an incredible position that

945
01:25:01,119 --> 01:25:08,000
david'send or not. And the echoes
with what happened to James McDonald all those

946
01:25:08,079 --> 01:25:14,960
years ago. You know, this
very gifted academic professor and he fronted up

947
01:25:15,239 --> 01:25:19,119
doing his job at a congressional hearing
in Washington to talk about matters relating to

948
01:25:19,199 --> 01:25:25,920
his field of science, atmospheric physics, and he was ahead of his day

949
01:25:26,039 --> 01:25:30,359
in many ways talking about the effect, the possible effect of you know,

950
01:25:30,439 --> 01:25:35,720
off climate change and the effect of
ozone in the atmosphere. But he was

951
01:25:35,760 --> 01:25:40,960
talking, you know, he was
presenting a congress when one of the congressmen

952
01:25:41,279 --> 01:25:45,239
brought up the issue of but aren't
you someone who's researching little green men?

953
01:25:45,359 --> 01:25:50,880
And there were these peals of laughter
and embarrassed silence. And he got a

954
01:25:50,920 --> 01:25:56,760
lot of critique, of course,
from some of the more well known debunkers

955
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,479
who were around at the time.
And he paid a very very heavy price

956
01:26:00,239 --> 01:26:10,399
for his academic, natural, very
understandable curiosity into this issue of UFOs but

957
01:26:10,560 --> 01:26:15,319
these other but so all of that
got conflated, and his reputation was smeared,

958
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:19,760
and apparently because of his personality,
it would affect anyone. Of course,

959
01:26:20,279 --> 01:26:26,520
took that very much to heart and
felt very offended by people who should

960
01:26:26,560 --> 01:26:32,560
have known better, people who were
credentialed as other scientists or politicians what we

961
01:26:32,560 --> 01:26:38,039
would call playing the man and not
playing the ball. And I see that

962
01:26:38,159 --> 01:26:43,479
exactly what's happened recently in relation to
David Rush and this article in the intercept.

963
01:26:44,520 --> 01:26:48,439
Because I didn't realize it was a
crime to have an illness, that

964
01:26:48,439 --> 01:26:54,319
it was wrong, or any physical
illness, and what on earth does it

965
01:26:54,399 --> 01:26:58,560
have to do with the information that
he's coming forward. Well, you know,

966
01:26:59,279 --> 01:27:02,640
in this Dayana, especially the way
we there's all these campaigns out there,

967
01:27:03,239 --> 01:27:09,439
especially aimed at men, to talk
about you know, having having if

968
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:12,520
they have a mental illness, that
it's okay, you know what I mean

969
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:17,399
that that it's it's it's just a
natural thing, and not to to ridicule

970
01:27:17,479 --> 01:27:24,960
them and make for a more you
know, an environment where they can come

971
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:30,760
out and be open about these things
so they don't internalize and then you know,

972
01:27:30,920 --> 01:27:33,279
commit suicide, which is what happens
a lot of the time because they

973
01:27:33,359 --> 01:27:39,000
can't go anywhere or they feel they
can't speak about it. This person is

974
01:27:39,720 --> 01:27:44,159
just you know, set that back
so far back, it's just ridiculous.

975
01:27:44,239 --> 01:27:48,600
What he's doing is actually should be
wrapped over the knuckles for having done that.

976
01:27:49,359 --> 01:27:55,000
And they all struggle with mental illness, aren't we. I mean,

977
01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:59,159
a yes, to a certain extent, is on the spectrum, and I

978
01:27:59,199 --> 01:28:04,279
would debate the fact that post traumatic
stress or post traumatic stress disorder is even

979
01:28:04,560 --> 01:28:11,760
on that spectrum of what we concur
to be things like schizophreni or bipolar disorder.

980
01:28:12,159 --> 01:28:16,199
It is a natural reaction to be
taken out of your environment and put

981
01:28:16,279 --> 01:28:21,239
into something that's so devastating, so
frightening. And you know it used to

982
01:28:21,239 --> 01:28:25,960
be called shell shock. I mean, my grandfather came back after putting his

983
01:28:26,079 --> 01:28:30,800
age up in the First World War
and had shell shock. Became a great

984
01:28:31,039 --> 01:28:39,239
and he wore poet because of the
tragedy of someone at at any age experiencing

985
01:28:39,279 --> 01:28:45,159
the side of people dying on the
battlefield next to you. And I think

986
01:28:45,199 --> 01:28:49,720
that, you know, there should
be some respect for your veterans and some

987
01:28:49,880 --> 01:28:56,600
caution used, because one day,
Ken, someone will look into your background

988
01:28:56,960 --> 01:29:01,039
and pull up something that isn't that
significant to you, but can be played

989
01:29:01,119 --> 01:29:05,800
on in the sensationalist market of this
news. And I think it's just a

990
01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:12,479
one way to me, it's Ken
getting his identity as that edgy journalists built

991
01:29:12,560 --> 01:29:18,079
up. It doesn't distract from David's
testimony. And just like the courageous and

992
01:29:18,279 --> 01:29:25,560
I emphasize that word extremely, the
courageous people that came forward to say that

993
01:29:25,680 --> 01:29:30,000
Westall is something they can't explain,
but they cannot get out of their lives.

994
01:29:30,319 --> 01:29:34,600
And sometimes I talk to witnesses,
we both do they might have experienced

995
01:29:34,600 --> 01:29:41,720
something for less than a minute,
but thirty forty years later they are still

996
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,960
troubled by what they experienced. Now, that's not an hallucination, that is

997
01:29:46,039 --> 01:29:50,319
not a drunken moment in life,
that is not a drug affected moment in

998
01:29:50,319 --> 01:29:55,600
life. That is something that has
pierced the heart of the human condition.

999
01:29:56,159 --> 01:30:02,199
When based in a reductionistic society that
says that that cannot exist. So I

1000
01:30:02,239 --> 01:30:05,880
think it's really important that we step
back and take a good look at it

1001
01:30:05,920 --> 01:30:14,199
ourselves before we start judging others with
what could be just purely sensationalism and exploitation

1002
01:30:14,359 --> 01:30:19,079
for the medium. Can we quickly
play before we say goodbye to this extraorary

1003
01:30:19,159 --> 01:30:23,640
gentleman that I want to dive.
I want to dive through the camera and

1004
01:30:23,840 --> 01:30:26,920
huk, And he's probably going,
thank god, he can't do that,

1005
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:31,159
because come, come, come come, I just feel so mostly attached to

1006
01:30:31,199 --> 01:30:36,720
you, and you are just a
fantastically humble and generous with your time.

1007
01:30:36,800 --> 01:30:41,239
Let's play the trailer for Roses docom. We will put a link up.

1008
01:30:41,319 --> 01:30:56,560
That's it there. The sixth of
April nineteen sixty six started just like any

1009
01:30:56,560 --> 01:31:03,439
other day in the city of Melbourne. Then something very strange appeared in the

1010
01:31:03,439 --> 01:31:09,479
sky above the suburb of West Or
hasn't been explained to this day. This

1011
01:31:09,640 --> 01:31:12,760
boy came running in, say,
mister Grahwood, mister grahwad these things in

1012
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:15,119
the sky, These these things in
the sky. We looked at and we

1013
01:31:15,239 --> 01:31:19,000
just saw this source of type thing
taking off. It wasn't a plane,

1014
01:31:19,000 --> 01:31:21,319
it wasn't a balloon, it was
nothing like that. A lot of the

1015
01:31:21,399 --> 01:31:26,199
kids took off towards where it seemed
to go. All the students were just

1016
01:31:26,319 --> 01:31:30,640
running all over the place, hysterical. We're to a high school as a

1017
01:31:30,680 --> 01:31:34,680
teaching situation ceased. My girlfriend and
I said, on the fence, climbed

1018
01:31:34,680 --> 01:31:39,279
the fence the school boundary, and
we were crying. I think it was

1019
01:31:39,279 --> 01:31:57,600
the end of the world, all
right, isn't that? And Rosie Jones

1020
01:31:57,640 --> 01:32:03,199
are such a gifted filmmakers. Really, my time with Rosie and how she

1021
01:32:03,359 --> 01:32:10,560
handled me, how she managed to
extract not a performance, but how she

1022
01:32:10,680 --> 01:32:15,000
managed to extract a information from me, and how she got me to move

1023
01:32:15,079 --> 01:32:20,079
through the landscape and to interact with
the witnesses. And the only reason I

1024
01:32:20,199 --> 01:32:26,000
know anything about the Westall story,
and this is something that I didn't discover

1025
01:32:26,439 --> 01:32:30,920
until years and years into my research, is because one day an eleven year

1026
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:35,880
old boy who had been at Westall
State School that day, went home and

1027
01:32:35,960 --> 01:32:41,119
told his mum and dad, who
lived in Westall, about what he had

1028
01:32:41,159 --> 01:32:49,479
seen, and some years later that
mum and dad became friends with a lady

1029
01:32:49,520 --> 01:32:54,479
that I ended up boarding with when
I first moved down from Sheppard and to

1030
01:32:54,560 --> 01:33:00,760
Melbourne as a university student. A
lady who had been an infant welfare in

1031
01:33:00,800 --> 01:33:03,520
that part of Melbourne for a thousand
years. Everybody knew her. She knew

1032
01:33:03,560 --> 01:33:06,760
all the babies, all the mums, all the dads. She'd been given

1033
01:33:06,840 --> 01:33:12,439
the award of the Citizen of the
Year for the City of Waverley, the

1034
01:33:12,479 --> 01:33:16,439
local government area in which she lived. And I boarded with her as some

1035
01:33:16,520 --> 01:33:21,279
other students had done over the years, and while I was going to university,

1036
01:33:21,359 --> 01:33:26,359
and she told me the story about
what had happened at Westall, and

1037
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:30,800
she knew that because that little boy's
mum and dad were friends of hers and

1038
01:33:30,840 --> 01:33:38,600
had shared that with her. Years
later, I eventually stumbled upon the information

1039
01:33:39,079 --> 01:33:43,479
that one of the hundreds of witnesses
in my list that I've been in contact

1040
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:48,159
with was that little boy, and
that he had this connection with my friend.

1041
01:33:48,239 --> 01:33:53,640
The lady I had lived with for
several years, and I never knew

1042
01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:58,359
of the connection, didn't know I
knew his mum and dad, I knew

1043
01:33:58,399 --> 01:34:00,800
the lady who was my friend.
And then he said to me, Shane,

1044
01:34:01,039 --> 01:34:04,920
and did you ever hear about what
Alva? Alva was my friend I

1045
01:34:04,960 --> 01:34:11,560
boarded with. Did you ever hear
about Alva's mum story what she saw at

1046
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:16,199
the time, Because apparently around the
same time, in the suburb of glen

1047
01:34:16,239 --> 01:34:23,039
Waverley, just up the road from
Westall, my friend's mum, who was

1048
01:34:23,079 --> 01:34:31,119
a very straight laced, strict conservative
Christian Protestant Christian lady, stared out the

1049
01:34:31,119 --> 01:34:34,520
window in her kitchen one day and
at the back of the house, over

1050
01:34:34,560 --> 01:34:42,359
the backyard, behind the back fence
were these high tension power lines pylons,

1051
01:34:43,079 --> 01:34:45,600
which of course were part of the
network that connected with the ones in the

1052
01:34:45,640 --> 01:34:50,920
grounds of the schools at Westall,
and she saw sitting there in mid air

1053
01:34:51,479 --> 01:35:00,960
a floating flying saucer and inside two
beings, little germanoid type beings, but

1054
01:35:00,039 --> 01:35:06,239
they weren't human beings staring out looking
at her. And I have absolutely no

1055
01:35:06,359 --> 01:35:12,600
recollection of my friend Elva ever mentioning
that to me, but I presume Elva's

1056
01:35:12,600 --> 01:35:15,680
mother mentioned it to her, and
I had to sort of sit back in

1057
01:35:15,720 --> 01:35:20,359
my chair and wonder, what on
earth was the connection then with what happened

1058
01:35:20,399 --> 01:35:25,800
at Westall, because it was around
the same time, literally just up the

1059
01:35:25,880 --> 01:35:30,439
road. What do you make of
all these pieces of the puzzle and all

1060
01:35:30,479 --> 01:35:34,479
these different connections that you make around
them. It's fascinating, and it is

1061
01:35:34,560 --> 01:35:40,680
and it's been a real blessing in
my life to stumble across this story and

1062
01:35:40,760 --> 01:35:44,640
to be welcomed into the lives and
hearts of so many of the people who

1063
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:49,560
were there, and people like yourselves
who are connected with this phenomena in different

1064
01:35:49,600 --> 01:35:54,880
ways as well and are interested in
the story too. So I thank you

1065
01:35:54,960 --> 01:35:59,119
very much. Well, we can't
thank you enough. And I believe,

1066
01:35:59,359 --> 01:36:03,279
at the end of the day,
if we can actually term part of the

1067
01:36:03,359 --> 01:36:11,159
anomalous world to be that God particle, that God particle directed you to be

1068
01:36:11,279 --> 01:36:16,479
the custodian of this valuable information because
you would not exploit it, and you

1069
01:36:16,520 --> 01:36:23,479
would take care of the eyewitnesses and
make sure that their credibility and their story

1070
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:30,399
remained intact. How rare it is
for an independent research of finance by their

1071
01:36:30,439 --> 01:36:33,960
own hand with a family to raise
and a job to do apart from this

1072
01:36:34,760 --> 01:36:40,439
is able to put together such an
astounding work. This is and I know

1073
01:36:40,560 --> 01:36:43,680
you've spoken them. One day there
will be a book out there. That

1074
01:36:43,760 --> 01:36:46,600
book needs to be out there.
I know that down in the grains that

1075
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:51,239
there is a flying sources shaped into
a place set down there. I believe

1076
01:36:51,319 --> 01:36:57,399
there should be some statues, especially
of the young ladies that were tenacious and

1077
01:36:57,479 --> 01:37:00,800
spoke to the meter and have held
strong. It should be a statue dedicated

1078
01:37:00,880 --> 01:37:08,119
to you and Rosie down there as
well, because you are just brilliant,

1079
01:37:08,319 --> 01:37:12,760
astounding people. And all we can
do is sit back in or at your

1080
01:37:12,840 --> 01:37:18,199
research and realize that all of us
need to raise our game and take into

1081
01:37:18,239 --> 01:37:25,279
consideration what great work you have done. We just admire it deeply, and

1082
01:37:25,319 --> 01:37:29,960
we also thank you for coming on
Onshold Radio because if anyone would look at

1083
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:36,199
the analytics around you in the media, it's thousands, hundreds of thousands approaching

1084
01:37:36,239 --> 01:37:41,000
millions. And when you look at
the analytics of down South Anomally from the

1085
01:37:41,079 --> 01:37:45,640
Untold Radio network, it's in the
hundreds. So really it's an astounding act

1086
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:53,079
of generosity to give us your incredible
time today. Shane and you know,

1087
01:37:54,399 --> 01:37:57,560
I just want to ask you at
the end there, you know, the

1088
01:37:57,640 --> 01:38:01,479
wife and I have noticed that in
this whole range of phenomena you could put

1089
01:38:01,560 --> 01:38:08,039
under the umbrella of anomalous, you
know, going even over the notion of

1090
01:38:08,520 --> 01:38:14,439
the Yowee sightings and the UFO signings, and you spoke very interestingly before about

1091
01:38:14,479 --> 01:38:17,960
these objects that we're still jumping.
And we've got a lot of film in

1092
01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:23,000
our building. We can analyze old
UFO footage and we notice, you know,

1093
01:38:23,039 --> 01:38:27,840
we're looking at eighteen twenty four frames
a second. You've always got what

1094
01:38:28,079 --> 01:38:32,039
seems to be balls of light attached
to these solid objects, and those balls

1095
01:38:32,079 --> 01:38:36,479
of light will appear maybe in one
or two frames, and then disappear,

1096
01:38:36,680 --> 01:38:43,399
and eight frames later they're there within
a fraction of a second, a nanosecond.

1097
01:38:43,960 --> 01:38:48,880
So we've always thought that there seems
to be an incredible consistency over the

1098
01:38:49,039 --> 01:38:55,520
range of anomalous phenomena. Then in
a way links all these things together.

1099
01:38:56,760 --> 01:39:00,760
And one of the things that links
them together strongly is that a lot of

1100
01:39:00,760 --> 01:39:06,079
people feel that there is some conscious
relationship. They cite a min Mien light

1101
01:39:06,199 --> 01:39:11,359
and they feel that that minin light
is actually there for them. People see

1102
01:39:11,359 --> 01:39:15,000
an object in the midst of the
CBD no one else is looking up.

1103
01:39:15,479 --> 01:39:20,359
They seem to feel that that object
is doing something for them. And I've

1104
01:39:20,399 --> 01:39:26,680
always extrapolated if I was going to
go towards a hypothesis, I think the

1105
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:30,960
word alien or even coming in from
another star system, we could be completely

1106
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:38,319
wrong. If it has that personal
connection to us, Is it us?

1107
01:39:39,399 --> 01:39:44,159
Is it part of us? How
can it relate to us so personally and

1108
01:39:44,239 --> 01:39:48,079
so profoundly if it doesn't understand us, and it seems to understand us a

1109
01:39:48,079 --> 01:39:54,520
lot more than we understand it or
ourselves. I often like to say to

1110
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:58,640
people in a way, because there
are so many explanations for the anomalous,

1111
01:39:58,800 --> 01:40:01,560
and we all have our interpret pans
based on how we were raised and the

1112
01:40:01,600 --> 01:40:05,479
cultures we grew up in and what
we've studied and all those sorts of things.

1113
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:11,760
But you know, people talk about
the supernatural and the power on normal,

1114
01:40:11,800 --> 01:40:15,199
but there's really only the natural and
the normal, and it all has

1115
01:40:15,279 --> 01:40:20,439
to be connected, and it's just
super or power because we don't yet have

1116
01:40:20,520 --> 01:40:25,279
a handle on it. But it's
all part of the one fabric that we

1117
01:40:25,359 --> 01:40:32,560
call the universe or life or time, and it's interesting that issue of consciousness

1118
01:40:32,600 --> 01:40:39,439
that you raised, because just literally
two weeks ago, I was talking to

1119
01:40:40,079 --> 01:40:46,079
a woman who's now in her sixties
working on our mind site in Western Australia,

1120
01:40:46,520 --> 01:40:53,000
driving one of those big mining dump
trucks. But in the nineteen sixties,

1121
01:40:53,000 --> 01:40:57,840
she was a nine year old girl
standing on the sports ground at a

1122
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:02,439
primary school in Melbourne, not West
but another one, and she had this

1123
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:09,359
extraordinary UFO sighting an object that was
only about one hundred and seventy meters away,

1124
01:41:09,560 --> 01:41:14,119
she described as being like two or
three times the size of her dump

1125
01:41:14,159 --> 01:41:17,880
truck that she drives, and it
was hanging in mid air, silent,

1126
01:41:18,560 --> 01:41:21,840
and there were lots of kids there
and teachers because it was recess time.

1127
01:41:23,119 --> 01:41:26,840
They were watching it in broad daylight. And she said, Shane, I

1128
01:41:26,880 --> 01:41:30,680
don't know why. I don't know
why. But then and now still I

1129
01:41:30,760 --> 01:41:34,920
had the sense that it was watching
me and watching us, and that it

1130
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:40,479
was conscious that we were there,
and that it was almost showing itself to

1131
01:41:40,600 --> 01:41:44,399
us. I don't know why,
why did it pick us? But it

1132
01:41:44,439 --> 01:41:49,199
was showing itself to us for a
reason, and I wonder, I don't

1133
01:41:49,239 --> 01:41:53,000
know. Of course, I don't
have the answers I only have the questions,

1134
01:41:53,439 --> 01:41:58,920
but I wonder if something similar was
happening at Westall. I just wonder.

1135
01:41:59,000 --> 01:42:02,720
And I think it's the wondering that
we have to do. That's what's

1136
01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:08,479
the important thing. It's the wondering. It's the questioning, and not so

1137
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:13,000
much getting hooked on the answers,
although the answers are important. I want

1138
01:42:13,039 --> 01:42:16,720
answers as much as anybody, but
it's that sense of wonder and that sense

1139
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:23,880
of staying open to what could be
because maybe none of us really know what

1140
01:42:23,920 --> 01:42:29,520
it is that we're looking at.
It's something still beyond us, but it

1141
01:42:29,560 --> 01:42:32,279
has to be, I think,
connected to us because we're all connected,

1142
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:35,960
we're all part of the same world, the same universe. There has to

1143
01:42:36,000 --> 01:42:43,319
be at some level a connection.
Yes, yeah, And I think it's

1144
01:42:43,359 --> 01:42:46,680
a wonderful opinion. And we should. We've all got our own reality tunnel.

1145
01:42:46,720 --> 01:42:49,920
As you said, we've all got
our own biases. The last thing

1146
01:42:49,960 --> 01:42:55,920
we need to be doing is throwing
shade on other people, unless they're harming

1147
01:42:55,960 --> 01:43:00,319
other people with aspects of sensationalism.
But we should all stand back from this

1148
01:43:00,399 --> 01:43:04,640
phenomena and be in awe of it. And as a teacher, as a

1149
01:43:04,760 --> 01:43:09,720
parent, you'd be really aware that
it's not a matter of coming up with

1150
01:43:09,760 --> 01:43:15,319
an answer, it's a matter of
triggering the human imagination and making that imagination

1151
01:43:15,439 --> 01:43:21,279
grow, and making you realize that
we are in a profoundly beautiful, extraordinary

1152
01:43:21,359 --> 01:43:28,840
situation and if we have support and
love that we can't be any luckier than

1153
01:43:28,880 --> 01:43:31,439
more. We are right in this
moment, absolutely, and it is an

1154
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:38,800
absolutely profound privilege to say thank you
for your time today, and much love

1155
01:43:38,880 --> 01:43:43,279
and respect to you. If you're
ever in Sydney, come and see the

1156
01:43:43,359 --> 01:43:48,239
dysfunction of what people call hoarders buried
alive, and that is my wife and

1157
01:43:48,319 --> 01:43:54,359
I in our archives. The door
will be always open before you. If

1158
01:43:54,359 --> 01:43:57,680
there's any research we can help you
with, I doubt it. I think

1159
01:43:57,680 --> 01:44:00,079
you're just a remarkable researcher. But
let me say at the end, I

1160
01:44:00,279 --> 01:44:05,680
hinted to you in an email that
possibly we have another witness, And two

1161
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:12,119
weeks ago we've got a couple of
brilliant brothers that are directors of a movie

1162
01:44:12,319 --> 01:44:15,439
I could have feeling you could really
enjoy called Late Night with the Devil,

1163
01:44:16,119 --> 01:44:25,000
which is a film based on satirizing
the late night TV host like Dong Lane

1164
01:44:25,239 --> 01:44:30,680
and all those moments with Doris Stokes
and all those bits and pieces. Yes,

1165
01:44:30,359 --> 01:44:36,640
but their father actually live right near
Marabin, and even though he's in

1166
01:44:36,720 --> 01:44:41,880
his eighties and one of the sons
is quite skeptical and goes, Dad,

1167
01:44:41,920 --> 01:44:45,720
you're near an airport, You're bound
to see odd things. He has some

1168
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:49,600
stories. Yes, So when we
get a chance, and we didn't get

1169
01:44:49,640 --> 01:44:53,600
a chance, we would have loved
to have thrown him right into the thick

1170
01:44:53,640 --> 01:44:57,600
of things with this sum But when
we get a chance interview him, we

1171
01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:00,479
will interview him, and we will
make sure the we get that information in

1172
01:45:00,600 --> 01:45:05,279
your hands, whether it's relevant or
not. It's just another great way.

1173
01:45:05,560 --> 01:45:10,760
And you know what, like yourself, I really enjoy talking to people.

1174
01:45:11,000 --> 01:45:15,800
I love being in their company,
and every time I talk to certain individuals,

1175
01:45:15,079 --> 01:45:19,000
I'm inspired. It gives my life
a lot more depth and warmth.

1176
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:24,279
And you have brought us so much
of that today. So thank you for

1177
01:45:24,319 --> 01:45:29,399
being part of Untold Radios down South
Anomalies. Thank you Jamie, and thank

1178
01:45:29,399 --> 01:45:32,760
you Escocia. Sending love back to
you as well. Thank you. And

1179
01:45:32,800 --> 01:45:35,560
I better go and see what my
school aged children are doing now. Yeah,

1180
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:39,720
it just quickly shows shame what you
were knitting there, because it always

1181
01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:42,880
gets me down when you're distracted.
But I want to see you what you

1182
01:45:43,039 --> 01:45:47,000
completed in that time of the interview. Is it finished night, Well,

1183
01:45:47,079 --> 01:45:50,239
no, I'm just but I'm making
little you know, she knits when she

1184
01:45:50,399 --> 01:45:58,920
djin Wow is that a doily?
It's a square. I'm making a cot

1185
01:45:58,920 --> 01:46:03,720
cover. Yeah. They need to
be more Nittes in the world. Absolutely,

1186
01:46:03,720 --> 01:46:06,800
and sheep as well, of course. Yeah. We love you deeply.

1187
01:46:06,920 --> 01:46:12,279
Thank you, thank you, Sane, thank you. I will let

1188
01:46:12,319 --> 01:46:17,239
you know when this is on lovely. Yeah, and that's great, Thank

1189
01:46:17,279 --> 01:46:19,960
you so much. And if you've
got a website for people to go to,

1190
01:46:20,119 --> 01:46:24,199
maybe that's quickly what we need to
do. So anymore I would if

1191
01:46:24,199 --> 01:46:27,880
anybody wants to contact you about so
anyone can contact me. Yeah, through

1192
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:32,520
the Westall Incident Flying Source west All
Flying Source or Incident Facebook page. It's

1193
01:46:32,560 --> 01:46:38,279
on Facebook. I'm on Facebook,
but people can contact me through that page.

1194
01:46:38,880 --> 01:46:43,640
And there's a whole stack of information
there in terms of links, videos,

1195
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:47,079
articles, photos, maps or related
to the west Or story. Lots

1196
01:46:47,079 --> 01:46:53,119
of posts from me but other people
as well, including posts from people who

1197
01:46:53,119 --> 01:46:56,319
were there at Westall. So that's
the best way. I think that's more

1198
01:46:56,399 --> 01:47:00,319
information that they can look at.
Okay, let's hope that young men hasn't

1199
01:47:00,359 --> 01:47:02,960
torn the lounge to shreds. All
right, we'll speak to you very soon

1200
01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:06,600
and take good care. Maybe just
take shin out. We need to play

1201
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:15,600
sat scorn, which that they're just
darling. We've got that coming up on

1202
01:47:15,680 --> 01:47:17,840
the top of the Sasquatch. Yeah, all right, San, thank you

1203
01:47:17,920 --> 01:47:23,399
so much, so much, soon
again, thank you. All right,

1204
01:47:24,359 --> 01:47:27,840
Okay, all right, where am
I that one there? Now? We

1205
01:47:27,960 --> 01:47:30,640
have to make sure that people are
aware to go online, that this is

1206
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:35,359
not just you're there in the States
checking this out, but you can actually

1207
01:47:35,399 --> 01:47:42,319
go online and experience the entire It's
an amazing documentary. I'm pronouncing that wrong.

1208
01:47:42,359 --> 01:47:45,359
I'm turning into plauns. Let's go
with it. Let's just go hit

1209
01:47:45,399 --> 01:47:48,600
it, all right, we'll be
back next week. We'll come back after

1210
01:47:48,880 --> 01:47:54,199
God, I've got to go and
pick up my grandson. Are you ready

1211
01:47:54,199 --> 01:47:58,359
to uncover the mysteries of Bigfoot?
Join us for Squatch kan Idaho twenty twenty

1212
01:47:58,399 --> 01:48:00,680
three. This year we're bring in
the magic directly to your screen, or

1213
01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:05,199
join us in person. Witness the
world premiere of the enhanced Paul Freeman Bigfoot

1214
01:48:05,199 --> 01:48:11,039
footage. Doug Hicheck discovered a secret
within this enhanced video you'll have to see

1215
01:48:11,079 --> 01:48:15,319
to believe. Here from an all
star panel of bigfoot experts like doctor Jeffrey

1216
01:48:15,359 --> 01:48:18,720
Meldrum, Cliff Barockman, Brian King
Sharp, and Michael Freeman. But that's

1217
01:48:18,760 --> 01:48:24,960
not all. Get exclusive online bonuses
such as bigfoot themed wallpapers, a Bigfoot

1218
01:48:24,960 --> 01:48:30,039
coloring book, an interactive Bigfoot quiz, Squatch Nutfield Guide, get a copy

1219
01:48:30,079 --> 01:48:33,560
of the Freeman Bigfoot Files ebook,
and more. Whether you attend in person

1220
01:48:33,640 --> 01:48:38,720
or watch it live online, you'll
be part of an unforgettable experience. Don't

1221
01:48:38,760 --> 01:48:43,640
miss out on this unique opportunity.
Secure your spot today Squatch Cohn, Idaho,

1222
01:48:43,760 --> 01:48:58,359
twenty twenty three. Step into the
Unknown. Please excuse me there,

1223
01:48:58,479 --> 01:49:01,399
I think we're a little tied up
to that interviewed. I was really wrecky

1224
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with squatscong but it is so important. I think you've got one. Excuse

1225
01:49:08,199 --> 01:49:11,560
me, don't forget to have a
look at this. You felt you were

1226
01:49:11,560 --> 01:49:15,520
throwing countering Weird has had pressed and
up numerous times. He's great books,

1227
01:49:15,560 --> 01:49:19,800
so many great books, and I
think actually untold Radio I had him up

1228
01:49:19,920 --> 01:49:25,520
recently as well. He did drive
in Flowing Sorce. Yeah. Really that

1229
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should be turned into a movie.
It should be you know my name Shake

1230
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Kat's My beautiful wife. Aspasia has
knitted a doorly whilst interviewing Today the One

1231
01:49:34,039 --> 01:49:39,239
and at Least from Westall sixty six. You killed me. You know what.

1232
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:43,600
I love you, but I also
love our lists and our watchers.

1233
01:49:43,680 --> 01:49:47,319
Take good care. We'll be back
next week to something you know with a

1234
01:49:47,399 --> 01:49:53,199
banger. I think we do.
We bang every week. What a thing

1235
01:49:53,319 --> 01:49:53,760
to say.