What is going on? Clippers fans? Welcome to season two, Episode three
of Clips and Dip. Are we in season two? Now? Yeah?
Will you haven't been here for a very long time. We determined that,
we determined that seasons new seasons start whenever the NBA Draft happens. So okay,
we are on season two. Yeah, no, after after the finals,
the season is over. That makes sense. I get it. That
season one cliffhanger was wild man. Yeah, that was crazy sticking around.
Yes, I mean hey, thank you for sticking around. Thank you.
If you're listening in the offseason. We are Clips and Dip. We're part
of the two and three hoops Empire. I am Chuck Mockler, joined by
Adam Oslin and William Updike. Can find us on YouTube at Clippers Podcast,
Twitter at Clippers Pod. Guys, how are we doing? We're gonna get
into some we haven't even talked Kenyan in junior yet. We're gonna talk roster,
We're gonna talk plumbly. We're talking what the hell's next, as well
as some summer league. But more importantly, how are you fellas doing?
How's your off season so far? Adam, we'll go with you you're the
more positive one. Usually everything's awful. Guys. It's so hot outside.
I can't sleep at night. I gotta turn the ac all the way up,
and that costs more money. Now I'm good. Everything's fine, and
I'm back with you two. And Will's arrived. I felt like he signed
our yearbook and said see you next year or something. Summer. We miss
you, Will, how you've been. I'm good, I'm good. Uh,
you know, basking in this relative lack of Clippers news. We'll get
into it in a minute, but uh, yeah, just I've been enjoying
the summer. I'm I'm actually, I'm I'm not taking this heat for granted,
after the after the May and June gloom that we've suffered here in Los
Angeles that we've you know, we've battered down the hatches. Um, I'm
welcoming it with open arms. Much all right, like this Clippers offseason,
all right, we're basking in the heat. We're gonna talk because there was
a flurry of Clippers news, like we all thought we were going to trade
for James Harden imminently or some crazy thing. We're gonna talk about that in
a bit. But I think the more exciting thing is we got some youth
on the team. We've finally got some youth, a guy who can play.
In case you've missed this living your life, the Clippers traded two second
round picks to Kenyan Martin Junior for the Rockets. Incredible deal. He's making
just under two mill this upcoming season. Then he's an unrestricted free agent.
We will the Clippers will have full bird rights, so that's nice. Just
a breakdown for kJ. Martin played eighty seven percent of his time last season
at the small forward the year before that seventy six percent of his time at
the power forward position, so it seems like there's some flexibility there as we
know that the Clippers love it. Thirty four percent from deep on four and
a half attempts per one hundred possessions in his career. He's he's hustles,
he's fast, he dunks, Adam, you've talked about him before. This
is a pretty nice little margin piece of business for the Clips. He played
eighty two games last year. That's kind of a big deal. No,
this is someone we brought up over the last six months as someone that we
were hoping the Clippers would have an eye on. And would target just because
you get that infusion of athleticisms that pops something that has been sorely missing from
this ball club. A rim runner that can really go up and get anything
taken nickel off the top of the backboard, whatever it may be. But
I love the fact that you brought up the bird rights and they can go
over the cap to pay him regardless of how this season goes. And look,
guys in contract years typically fall out a motivating factor there. And while
he's only shooting thirty four percent from distance over his career, the first two
seasons he shot about a very respectable thirty six percent from the outside, so
he's not just a rim runner. He's got some skill with the shot.
And I think it's going to come down to I love that set you brought
up of how much he played the power forward position, but if he can
guard up because of his athleticism, even though he's undersized, if you have
a guy that can leap and just play stronger than your size, that could
be a big factor for this team. And getting him more minutes on the
court and just having a more expanded role he can play against force and hold
his own. Yeah, well, where you're out on kJ Have you ordered
the jersey yet? Are you writing? Well? I'm curious to see if
if he is going to be able to guard up a position. Last year,
you know, probably his most successful season so far and his short tenure
in the league, you know, nearly double the amount of minutes from any
season previous, and he actually played the fewest amount of minutes at the power
forward position. Now, it's not necessarily an indictment on him. I'm just
such a weird over and he's yeah, yeah, totally. I mean,
it's a it's a team that you know, like maybe doesn't have the best
tracking. I'm not going to go as far as to say rutnerless, but
maybe doesn't have the best tracking in terms of direction. So I definitely wouldn't
rule it out as a possibility. He's definitely got the size and the athletic
ability, and I think, I mean, youth is a huge thing that
we need to infuse this team with, especially if of any yeah, at
any hope of sort of extending this championship window around the core duo that we
know that they're gonna run with um. And I love him for the price
that you got him and Honestly, like, my biggest concern with this signing
really has nothing to do with what Kenyan Martin does on the core or who
he is as a player, has to do with the fact that we still
haven't solved one of the biggest problems with this roster, which is the lack
of consolidation of the four position or the three four or however you want to
like break down that that position estimate. You can look up the stats on
our reference on your own, but it's last season, right. We looked
at like this glut of talent that the Clippers had, and I think,
you know, you can go back and listen to episodes. All of us
were really positive on it, especially on a team with two main guys who
you know, it's gonna be questionable if they're going to get to the fifty
game mark apiece. It's great to have, but I think what we saw
really is that it can lead to a sort of indecision fatigue, especially on
the part of coach lou And I think that you know, adding in another
wing and this is a more athletic wing, but i'll be another kind of
flawed wing that it's not the clear necessarily go ahead over some of the other
guys on the roster. I think that really presents a challenge. And the
biggest question for me about the signing is, Okay, so where are these
minutes coming from? Like, like, ultimately, where are these minutes going
from? If these are coming out of Marcus Morris minutes, which if he's
still on the roster, you know, I mean he's still expecting a starting
spot really from everything we've heard, right, you know, you know,
it's it's it's all just kind of a math equation of like how you're going
to figure out how these minutes are gonna go. Um, But there's no
real loss necessarily, especially because of how low you got him. And I
love the idea. I love the direction of getting a little younger, but
you know, when the rubber meets the road, where is the plane in
development time for Kenny Martin Junior? And I don't have the answer right now.
I mean I have some thoughts, but that's something that they're going to
have to figure out this season. Yeah, we did, especially with the
pending contract right because he wants to add one extra thing, but like you
know, you do have to figure it out because his rookie deal is about
to be up. So if he's not happy with his role, yes,
you have his bird rights, but like, yeah, you know, oh,
we don't want to pull a Joseph It getting mad at the front office
for an off season that hasn't finished yet. But I do shots that Joe
retired old man gets also he'll be back all of as he hasn't retired,
come out. He's a special guest. But I think we're all assuming they're
going to make some move, considering they already telegraph to move with Marcus Morrison
a trade that fell through with Malcolm Brockton. So I don't know if he's
long for being a Clipper at this point, if they can really go into
camp having him but toomb and Robert Commington still on the team now with kJ
Martin, with Kenyan Martin Jr. I don't see it happening. I don't
think it's very likely they tried to move him right Like, we're exactly only
like two weeks away from the Clippers first piece of business being trading away Marcus
Morrison. I just don't see him as the type of guy that now that
you've tried to move him, he's willing to stay and play nice, and
you know he has that document. The workout picks from Marcus Morrison even got
You gotta wonder if some of those early free agency sort of moves and indications
didn't have anything to do with that. Yeah, we got some more of
the possible moves that could be coming. We'll talk about in a future segment
in this episode. But I just don't see it happening where Kenyan Martin Junior
isn't getting at least twenty minutes a night. At least, that's a guy
that has to be out there. I think, well Man second unit,
I mean it's probably second unit minutes. I don't see Martin starting for the
Clippers. No, and that wasn't when I was suggesting, oh totally yeah,
thirteen to twenty, Yeah, I'll take that. I think thirteen to
twenty is reasonable. I think, like expecting twenty at a minimum. I
don't know if reasonable. He's getting Terrence Man minutes, like, I just
don't see him as being well to be prepare they hate Terrence. That is
fair, It's gonna be interesting, and there's so many moves that happen.
Still, I think that initial Marcus Morris mood had farther though I mean,
I guess from a fan perspective, there is because we need like the fourth
thing is every single fan, the one thing Clippers fans have united on in
this offseason is we need to feel the four position. So I guess that's
all I see incoming to find room for Martin. Yeah, and I mean
there's still well, the thing is is like we just can't sign guys out
right because if if even if you're looking at the market right now and you're
thinking, you know, maybe a Christian Wood or an Urey is somebody who's
like gettable at what the Clips can offer, you still got to offload a
lot of money before even start to think to talk about that. Yeah,
I just think Kenyan Martin Junior is such a breath of fresh air, kind
of like Balls Highland, but add more of a I don't want to say
position of need, because the point guard position also is something that I think
it's I think it's a position age of need or age. It's just getting
younger, finding ways to get younger as your stars age. I think that's
where it has to be for to have young guys with bounce that can play
heavier minutes during the regular season. We can't us rely on Russell Westbrook being
able to play every night. There has to be some young guys that can
do that and develop while playing good enough basketball and being featured in roles where
they can thrive. I just don't think the Clippers have had this element since
Monsta Tres, since Montrese Harold. Of a guy like Kenyan Martin Junior that
can just go up and throw down whatever and that pick and roll game that
I'm hoping he can play off of. I think it'll be really interesting.
Man, the names right now, if you're not watching us on YouTube at
Clippers podcasts are going off. Yeah, the second unit idea, like the
three man lineup of Terrence, Bones and Martin, that's gonna be fun to
watch. And whatever minutes they find for that trio with showtime plumb out there
and then whoever at that other position, that'll be a fun little bench unit.
We're talking to some Clippers now who've returned. Russell Westbrook is back.
Signed a two year, seven point eight million dollar contract with the player option
now for this upcoming season. It's all that we could offer. He didn't
take some kind of hometown discount. This is the most the Clippers could have
offered seemingly. I mean, he's say the hometown discount in that he took
what the team was that he wanted to stay with, could possibly maximum give.
But did we did he get any other offers? Do we know?
I don't no shade on I generally just don't know Derek. Like people were
there's some crazy point guard money going around. I didn't see any fan fridge.
I didn't see anything publicly. But maybe his intentions, you know,
were fairly clear. I don't know. Yeah, I assume somebody else would
give him more than just three point eight million this season had he wanted to
go there. I think it came down to everybody knew he was coming back
to the Clippers in a similar manner to Austin Reeves was coming back to the
Los Angeles Lakers. Yeah, that's true. So we gotta assume he's a
starting point guard as of July twelfth, five forty five pm, right.
I don't see anyone dethroning Russ right now when you look at the Clippers roster
for starting point guard. We basically need what we got from him for twenty
one games all of next season, right like we need crash the offensive boards,
hit shots when he's within zero to ten feet of the rim, no
one to take the three, and you know, fix the two to one
assistant turnover ratio. Oh my god, something happened with Will's camera, but
he does seem to be here still. But so how are we feeling about
the return? I think we kind of knew this was happening, Adam,
while Will figures this camera situation out, how are you feeling? What are
your expecting? You're hoping it proves to be a bargain. I don't think
he's going to shoot thirty six percent from three over entire season, but like
I said before, if he shot thirty three percent or above that you're in
good shape. And limited attempts per game. He's done that twice in his
career, and that's discounting what he did in the Clippers and limited on last
season in just the twenty plus games. But I think they were in need
of an emotional leader after Patrick Beverlely left, and somebody that can be more
of a floor raiser in the regular season because the lack of availability with two
stars and Russ in that way, not missing games and just being a stabilizing
factor out there on the court just for the sake of availability. I think
it's meaningful for this group. I think guys do get inspired playing next next
to Russell Westbrook. Everybody seems to love them. PG talked about it.
He said that he changed the culture, which we talked about it with tomayher
Man. Why don't you change the culture? Yes, the vibes, that's
what Russ is bringing. If it's helping the guys believe to play better,
that's good. You look at the offensive rating numbers with PG and Kawhi.
It was just two hundred and thirty minutes, so it's not a large sample
size. Offense offensive rating one hundred and ten point five not good, defensive
rating one oh five point four phenomenal, net rating five point two not necessarily
good. Um, but this is where we're at. What like what this
feels weird? Because for Russ's scenario, he played as well as we I
think most people could have expected him to play right like better. I mean
I'd be willing to say better, sure, for sure, And I just
like I just think we expect him next year, like is it gonna get
It has to be as good as it was for twenty one games the whole
time next season. So let's say it is right. Yeah, let's say
best case scenario, he stays available and it is that same similar level of
production which did Habits up and up and down. Yeah. U the Clippers,
you know, looking at the West and how other teams have improved,
are a playing team maybe six at best, Like I will say, I'm
just saying, like so far in his Clippers off season, like looking at
what we got, unless we get a massive uptick in the amount of games
played between Paul George and Kawhi Leonard, like this is if you get russed
at the level that he was, this is a playing team, well maybe
slightly above. I think the difference could be and we don't know because he's
coming off another knee injury that hopefully Kawhi can hit the ground running and not
have this ramp up process like we saw going into last season where he was
coming off the bench at first. It was really awkward because he got back
to his regular minutes. He played some of, if not the best regular
season basketball of his career. And for as much as people have criticized,
hey, they weren't even good even when Kawhi Leonard and Paul George were on
the court, they still weren't a lead out there. Well, there were
fourteen games over five hundred when Kawhi played. They were at a six thirty
win percentage. The Denver Nuggets, who won the championship were at a six
forty win percentage last season, so I would say they still were pretty darned
good even though yes, there were still a lack of continuity. They still
hadn't clicked in for a long enough period of time where I think fans felt
comfortable saying they are an elite championship contender. But they still punch the Phoenix
Suns in the mouth in Game one and came out and looked like a team
that was going to win that series had Kawhi Leonard just stayed healthy even without
Paul George. So there were still I think a lot of positives and reasons
to believe that, Yeah, if they just could get closer to playing sixty
games plus continuity with the backups and not having a guard situation like we did
to start off last season with John Wall and Luke Kennard and Reggie Jackson,
and having a stabilizing force also at the backup center position with Mason Plumbly now
sign which we'll get into a little bit more at a second here. I
think their ceiling or their floor is definitely higher than what started off as last
season. Now we didn't know what Kawai's minutes or what he was going to
look like. I'm hoping we have a better idea going into this season.
And what Lawrence Frank is saying, they expect him to be ready for training
camp coming off the meniscus cleanup surgery is true. When does training camp start
September Tuesday? All right, sometime between next Tuesday in September. Yeah,
I don't know if you guys saw it, but they put out I can't
remember what betting site put out, like the wind totals for like each division
for basketball, the Clippers they don't have one up because they're just like we
don't know, like we have no idea what the availability is going to be,
which I think is totally fair. Like I think, what would you
bet the line at if you were Vegas. So Pg's coming in healthy.
We know Adam has to like cover his ears and his eyes or whatever.
Want we talk about this, but like so if fifty I'd feel like two
and a half. No, I'm saying you're setting the line. You're Vegas.
Oh I'm Vegas. Fifty one and a half, fifty and a half.
I'd go fifty and a half. So they'd have to win fifty one
to get over your Vegas. Brittany is tapping on your shoulder as we speak.
Man, I don't even want but so rest like, but I did
like what Will said. We're essentially as of fifty two pm July twelve,
we're running it back right now. Plus kJ Martin, There's probably gonna be
some moves made. Part of running it back is Mason Plumly coming back one
year five million dollars. Then he's an unrestricted free agent. He can do
whatever he's gonna do after next year. Can't be traded until December fifteenth,
which I think is something to keep in mind for the people who think that
some midseason moves are gonna come. Plumbly who I could see maybe being either
a salary filler, you know, he's kind of a bit, he's filler,
and then he can be a veteran dump, you know, contract wise,
someone to maybe look out for way down the road past December for someone
to be traded. But this is great, right we got the same backup
center we had last year. It feels like forever since we've had the same
backup center in like a known role two years in a row. Yeah,
I don't know. It feels like another good margin piece of business by the
clips. I would hope unless Moosa takes a big leave that Mason Plumley is
good for the long haul and somebody they want to keep around for all next
season because that contract that's pretty darn tinam friendly five million from a year.
Yeah, you're not gonna do much better than that. Yes, at least
top three backup center in the league. At worst it's him and naz Reid,
Like what are we talking about? No, totally will Where are you
out on the plumb dog? Do you have the jersey coming? Or stop
asking? I own one jersey and it's because of friends sent it to me.
Which jersey is it? It's sick as hell. We'll just nick saban
you not answers a stop. I love it. And you know, looking
at last year and sort of how things started, especially all the most like
the mosest Brown minutes, Um, I do think that if you were pessimistic
after this Clipper season, as I was, and a number of people were
just having a legitimate sort of backup center on the roster. I do think
that that um, that is an uptick or or a little bit of a
bright side for the Clippers. And you know, Plumbling, they put together
a great highlight real form, Like he's a fun player to watch, designing
the basketball to watch. He is a little too fun sometimes. Oh yeah,
absolutely, I'm like, dude, I was trying to find a thumbnail
to tweet out. I was using some AI generator and I was trying to
get an AI generated image of Plumbly doing like a Showtime style behind the back
pass a I can't even figure it out yet. So Plumbly is doing things
that A I can't even figure out, which might need to get rained in
a bit, but Plumbly Martin uh Man and Bones, who's gonna be that
other person on that second unit? Because that second unit of after that Laces,
We're all right, we're gonna talk about Jason Preston in a couple of
segments. That's gonna be fun. He's a good vet to have to you
know, like if Moose is gonna be up with the team. He's a
good guy for Moose to learn from. Like, it's a solid it's a
great signing. I like the signing. Uh it's Rocco or bat toomb in
there or mirror Coffee in there one of those three guys. Possibly, I
don't think it's a mirror. Maybe Rocco. Did you drop who? Who
are the four you put up? We got bones EJ Terrence big Plum,
EJ kJ okay J. Did you put it in? Norman Powell? Are
you so? Yeah? Norm? Damn damn. That second unit, that
second unit can score the ball. That's one. It feels like, UH,
don't know how they'll really pass it around or planning defense. But we'll
figure all that out later. Coming up, we're gonna be talking more.
Things have to be coming. We'll kind of alluded to it. We're basically
running it back. Some other things have to happen. We're gonna talk to
Harden stuff. But first there's ads and for some people, they've been too
loud. Adam is one of those people. He complains about it constantly and
we're not recording. So if you've been one of those wonderful individuals who it's
been too loud, go ahead and turn it down. We're talking hardened,
Kawai's extension and then how PG doesn't know how to backcut coming up after these
ads and three two one. All right, we are back and we are
kind of speculating a little bit about the Clippers off season. Welcome to Clips
and dips. Also, didn't I didn't bring that in right away at Ben
in the segment you somehow got too if you somehow got this far in the
podcast, no idea what you're listening to now, you know. Anyways,
we talked a little bit about the Clippers signs thus far, but things have
gotten a little quiet, a little quiet on the Harden front, if you
will. So let's let's talk there because I feel like that has been thus
fall are I mean, depending on how you feel about Malcolm Brogden, probably
the largest name that's been attached to the Clippers in this free agency. Where
do you want to start, Chuck? I mean, I don't know,
Like the hardened, the hardened thing's weird. It's gonna drag ass, So
it's gonna be done in like December, is what it feels like. Because
Marie is an idiot. One thing that's kind of interesting to me about this
is, you know, seems like every year, especially in the koin Paul
George era, you know, you get kind of faint whispers of some disgruntled
star wanting to come to the Clippers, somebody you know they're on the list
for a potential trade target. And you know, we've gotten pretty used to
the situations generally a leverage play to see this all the time. This one
is so interesting to me because he opted into the contract. There was not
more money on the table. He is a sixer for all intents and purposes
like that, you know, they it wasn't ever up in the air.
So for this one to kind of get it just feels like there must have
been some some more serious conversations, I guess, is what I'm saying than
maybe some of those other sort of trade whispers that we hear that I don't
normally give a lot of credence to unless we're hearing something directly, you know,
from someone close to the team. But yeah, I think it's interesting
because I'm a little unclear how much you're really willing to give up. I
talked about in the last segment, how you know, with the improvement of
other Western Conference teams. It does feel like the Clippers, even just from
a talent perspective or maybe lagging behind the field a little bit. Certainly don't
have the continuity of other teams, but like just in the raw talent department,
or maybe lagging behind some of their Western Conference competitors. But at the
same time, you're talking about an expiring contract for you know, an aging
player UFA after the next season two. Yeah, Like, I can understand
why you're not really willing to do much more than aggregate salary plus I would
say there was I would say one pick has most likely been on the table
unless they're not serious about this acquisition at all. They're completely un serious about
the acquisition. The no pick has been offered. But beyond that offer,
which I get isn't the tastiest. It's not off You mean they don't want
Roco Nico and like a pick and more and yeah, and a pick,
Like, I don't really know how much you're willing to go in on this.
I mean, considering Philly isn't exactly having a sell offer looking to rebuild
when you have joelm beat there. That means they have to get something substantial
back a playable guy that helps them today. Otherwise, why not for James
Harden with one year left on his deedle? Right, That's kind of what
I'm saying, because the Clippers aren't the only person in this situation. It's
like, or how much are we willing to put in the pot for us?
An expiring that can walk? It hasn't exactly shown the utmost loyalty or
dedication to a team, no disrespect. They do have Norman Palace former coach,
and Nick Nurse, which I think makes things interesting. And I'm sure
some combination of him or Terrence Man or both along with the first round pick
and then one of those fourds you talked to way too fucking much that I'm
sorry, that's try to try to win your first championship. It's what I
don't package specific. I don't think that that's getting it done. And like
the window, you know we talked about it. Do you think it's more
like you think it'd be like Terrence and Norm? Like me? Yeah?
Like will like do you think they'd walt like Terrence and Norm? I mean
if I'm the Sixers, totally, if I'm the Clippers, I mean,
I mean, no way you can't ask me. It's just way too high.
Like we just talked to him the last segment about you know with kJ
Martin, like it's a move in the right direction to get younger, you're
gonna trade out I mean norm who isn't young but comparatively to some of this
roster and your youngest rotation player. I mean, I don't know. I
think that at that you're you're for you it's championship or bust basically in one
season you maybe have to if he comes back. Yeah, if he comes
back, is that not where they're at? Anyways? Are they not in
that championship or bust window already? No, was not traded for Scoop.
It didn't happen. I don't think Portland wanted that. But that's besides the
point, because I do like the way that you guys are kind of debating
each side is what I feel like exactly why this is going to drag out
until maybe that post December trade deadline or something like that for guys who are
eligible to trade. I think if it gets done, I think it happens
in the season. It's definitely not an easy decision for either side, I
think, right because he's under contract in Philly. Yeah, he has to
play to earn the money and to try to get that next contract, so
he doesn't have a ton of leverage depending on what kind of stink he makes
to try to get out of there. And there was a report earlier today
from Ramona Shellborne that he still wants to be traded, while Dave mcbenneman was
saying things have cooled off a little bit, so who knows exactly what's happening
behind the scenes. There was some cryptic pictures on Instagram with him with Tobias
Harris and with Joel Embiid. I think Patrick Beverley quotes because he's got sign
by the Sixers, so he's like, I really hope he stays. Is
he hell bet? Or is he looking for changes in upgrades? And the
head coach still wasn't enough for him being moved out? Yeah, how do
other than Mike D'Antoni does Jane's trying to care about any head coach? Well,
it seemed like him and weren't getting along. There seemed to be something
there. I mean, who could have seen that coming? A guy who
flames out in the playoffs pairs up with a coach who can't coach in the
playoffs and throws guys under the bus. What's the end of that story?
A beautiful and meaningful friendship. So, Adam, what is your You walk
into Lawrence's office, you say you're fired? Adam, time excuse me?
And now you're the GM. What's the trade? You're not going to do
that. I would pay to see you try and do that. But what's
the trade you're offering for James Harden if you're the Clippers? Like, I
don't want to see anybody go. Of course I love all of these guys,
but if I'm thinking of something realistic that Philadelphia might go for, I
think Terrence Man and Norman Powell have to be involved. It starts there because
they have to get a player that can make up some of the production that
Harden gave them. Is much as Tyrese Maxie is improving, you can't just
say, oh, he's gonna supplement everything that James Harden did, which was
lead the league and assists last season. He's still that good. So it's
one of them plus either probably the tomb or Roos, a first round pick,
maybe a second round pick if they have a couple more of those hanging
out somewhere they might get the kJ Martin trade. I don't know either,
but I think it's a first round pick one of the two top forwards in
Nico and Rocco and either Norm or Terrence Man. And I'm still not convinced
for sure that gets it done. That may be where the Dalemates at right
now, where Philadelphia saying yeah, that's something, but we'd still like to
see if we can hold on to James hardly not have to make this move
all together. And Daryl and Daryl Morey is the ultimate, maybe there's something
else out there, Like he's the ultimate. I'm gonna wait, I don't
care, like this can take forever, like maybe like Daryl Morey is the
kind of GM to call teams and be like you want James and they're like
no, and he's like but what about that? And they're like stop it
likes And that's what makes it hard because we're dealing with another GM who kind
of drags shit out and has a strong relationship with James Harden, just like
Mike D'Antoni had, which will brought up before this is Daryl Morris, a
guy that he said yeah on paper, he scores more points per possession than
Michael Jordan, so he certainly has man what a thing to say? What
a why? I know it's accurate that you're a wild ass. Things you
can say. I don't recall if he said that means he's for sure better
than Michael Jordan. You can compare errors or whatever. But yeah, it's
not going to be easy for him to give up on this guy. You
may have to throw another sweetener in there. I don't know. Would they
want bones? Would they would they want to get bones in there as well?
Would you guys want to do that? Brandon Boston Junior? Because what
does Joel Embid want to You mentioned the Joel Embiid stuff like on with the
Instagram picks, Like you know, Joel Embiid has a voice in this right
he wants to win. Like if there's any semblance that they are starting to
tear things down or becoming a worst team than they were this past season.
They haven't gone to the Eastern Conference finals since they've had Joel Embiid, that
is a really bad look. And then then he's been a drop Is he's
asking out? Yeah, he's been through the If any there's no athlete.
I think in any sport currently that has more of a right to say I'm
done with this scenario if it goes than Joel embeat the man has been with
the seventy six. He was the process. I think the best might be
heading for that imminently, though I agree with that. You yeah, I
wouldn't want it. They could, but you don't want to be the GM
who asked to do it, Like I'd rather get fired before. Will you
look at you look at Toronto and how they never wanted to trade van Fleet
and then he just walks and they don't get anything for him. But they
had the ring Messiah Jerry has the credibility, thanks k sure, but they
made good moves along the way. The trade that's out there that seems the
most realistic, even though it's convoluted, is a three teamer where Dame goes
to Philly, where James Harden goes to the Clippers in Portland, ends up
with young guys in draft picks. Right, yeah, I would love that.
Where the problem is you have Dame wanting to direct Dame and put a
mandate on where he goes now, and I still you know, who knows
if that's how much that is him, how much that is his agent speaking
for him, because I gotta believe if he ended up in Philly next to
Joel Embid, the best player by far he's ever played next to. I
don't think Damian Lillard is gonna make that much of a stink about it.
I really don't show up unhappy or whatever those insane reports. He's not going
to hold out and not get paid that money from the Supermax extension that he
got, or if he went to the Clippers. I don't think that would
happen either. I think he would settle it. We know what we know
Lillard on the Clippers will What would you give up for Lillard? You would
both of us, Paul George and my two co hosts thank you now,
Like Paul George for Damian Lillard doesn't really make any sense. No, for
Portland's I just offered that you wouldn't send a Philly for James for Dame,
Yeah, because he's got more years left, even though you know, like
Aging Guard, I don't love the end of that contract. I don't even
know how you can. I don't have the numbers running for me how you
can make the math work for those three superstars plus managed to have any other
semblance of the team on the floor. I really don't know how that works.
J Martin. Bro Cap goes up about ten percent for your voice.
Yeah, we're on the we're on like yeah, with the new CBA,
we're like wearing three aprons or whatever the new thing you are, Like,
you give up though, Terrence in norm in a situation for Dame plus a
first round pick and Roke overber two. Yeah, but they got to absorb
Mooris of course has to be gone. I mean, and I man like,
if you're going that all in? He's at forty five mill this year
and then forty eight million dollars the next year. Holy, and when does
he get to sixty plus when he's at thirty seven, when he's thirty yeah,
thirty five, he's at fifty eight thirty six a cool sixty three million
dollars player option. He might opt out, go for a go for more
money after all those ships, four guy, ye afew in three chips in
four years. Why wouldn't you have now? I also would do it.
I love Damian Lillard. I like him more than the next team he goes
to. Yes, the next team he goes to, he's going to be
in for a shock when he actually gets criticized for not playing much defense and
being a liability on that end. He's gotten buy in Portland for so long.
He's beloved there because of everything he does and giving them a chance,
and he's their favorite son and everything. But once the championship expectations become much
more realistic and much more real as they would to whatever team he goes to,
because that's why they're doing it. All of a sudden, his flaws
are going to get picked at a heck of a lot more. Yeah,
that's a good call, speaking of kind of other years. And so basically
we're just waiting for any real news from this hardened thing. There's there was
some heat, now it's cooled off. Sources twittering that Terrence Man as the
hold up, but who knows. Let me throw out this And regarding James
Harden and this is one of the reasons I'm most for it, because I
think it would give the Clippers a better excuse to bring Russell Westbrook off the
bench where I think he's best suited running the show with the second unit and
raising their floor. I think if you have James Harden. You can make
that argument and say, look, we got up start James Harden. He's
the guy led the league and assist last season over you. We want you
to run the show and be the star, and then offense centered around you
with the bench. Yeah, does that make sense? I think it does
make sense. Are Russ Russell Harden are cool? There's no weird shit.
I don't remember any bad juju which I obviously Russell's moved to Washington and they
brought in John Wall, but I don't think it was I can't remember something
between him and Hardened Harden and CP three may have never worked before. Why
wouldn't it work now? All right? It never works until it does,
all right? So as of today, Andrew Greife put out a wonderful piece
on the LA Times. Also, just real quick, please support local newspaper
beat writers. Sports journalism in terms of print and beat writers is in hell
right now. And if you'll like a local beat writer, please support them,
subscribe, do some shit to help him out. We all need more
local actual sports reporting in our lives. Kawhi is extension eligible. As of
big wigs. Oh, I don't I support literal big wigs, but not
the big wigs and the fatcats who you know run this dang old country.
Kawhi is extension eligible as of today. He has until June thirtieth of next
year to sign a four year extension contingent on if he declines his player option
for the twenty four twenty five season, or he can sign a three year
extension on October twenty third if he opts into the contractum. According to a
person with knowledge of extension timetables, which what a credit to having a newspaper
that was me, Actually, I don't believe that, no disrespect, I
don't believe that. Uh. He also he had some quotes from anonymous executives
that would be wary of giving Kawai the full extension due to injury and due
to low trade value and all this stuff. Um the ramuses, Yeah,
yeah, he asked. Yeah, he just went across the all where you
guys at he wants a full extension for Kawai. Is that what we're probably
gonna see? That's an all timer right there. Appenheimer. Guys, bro,
don't even get me started. I am so hyped for Oppenheimer. Um,
the guy are you giving? I? Can you can like more movies.
There's a movie. You have your palette, Adam. You can watch
different kinds of movies. One day, I'll watch m I five. Next
day I'll watch Past Lives. I don't care movies or movie. Cannibal hologost
Yeah, great movie. Um all right, um, Adam's bad movie takes
aside, Adam, would you sign Kauai to the to let's call it four
for two twenty, that's the opt out two twenty, that's that's the Matt.
Yeah, if you have to. I think there's going to be a
negotiation. Just looking at this quote in the Andrew Griff article, and this
was coming off the presser on Draft Night with Lawrence Frank, where he said,
quote and you know, we'll just have the dialogue and just have very
very honest and open conversations and see if there's something that makes sense for all
sides unquote. It's gonna be I think some hard negotiations going on. I
don't think it's going to be an easy process. I don't know. I'm
just trying to read the tea leaves here and considering Kawai's only played in fifty
two percent of the possible three hundred plus regular season games that the Clippers have
had since he's been here over the four years. And it's not easy because
I don't think we've ever seen a player this elite that also has been this
injury prone, someone who has been a number one option on championship teams,
that can absolutely get you to the promised Land, that can win a first
round series against Kevin Durant even without Paul George, I think you would have.
But also there's that injury bub that he can't seem to get over,
and it's with that right leg, and he just had meniscus a clean up
on that right knee coming out of the playoffs series. So I don't know.
I think you have to if I'm talking about going all in and as
championship or bust, whatever it takes. But it may not take the entire
max to get the deal done. Well, yeah, I think it has
to be a conversation. There's just I just don't know that you can offer
I don't know that you can offer the full because if you offer it,
he's just gonna be like, yep, like no problem, Well is anyone
else gonna do it? Like that could maybe be the benefit of that New
York Knicks Report with Paul George. If you don't have the leverage of saying
why I could just go somewhere else and get the extension because all these executives
offering it. Yeah, all these executives are like, we don't know,
like what maybe they're colluding could be. But I do like that, Like
if you're like, yeah, well you're definitely are a lowballing Kawhi. What
if we paid Kawhi a million dollars per game played? How about that this
is a great deal for him. You can offer one contract on your team,
uh price per game. You can offer PPG price per game. That's
the new stat that the new cbafer. Well, I guess so, I
guess My other thing would be I don't know one else about this. The
CBA, especially like the with the current updates, like art has it all,
print it out all six hundred and seventy six pages if you want it.
We talked about it last time. Is that his next jersey just a
CBA jersey? Yeah, CBA and the number is six seventy six on the
back of it. Um, Like, the only way I think it's getting
close to that is if you can make it heavily incentive driven like if you
can, you know, like if the guarantee like like let's say we offer
him four for two twenty, but the guaranteed money is you know, so
you're almost think like a lot closer to half that you're almost in like NFL
contract territory. I mean no, I'm not like an interesting take. That's
if you're interesting idea if you want that number, and you know, of
course who wouldn't um and obviously you know they're gonna do everything they can to
keep Kauai. Are you willing to put it on the line? I you
know, I don't know. It seems a little bit though, like then
you're challenging whether or not he could have played in some of these games,
and it's not really about how much he's actually been injured. Has nothing to
do with the past. Man has to do with the future. Okay,
but we know what the past is and we can't erase what's been happening over
the last four years, like the reason it happened, Patty. If the
past didn't matter and we were just talking about oh Kawhi Leonards won multiple NBA
finals MVPs, then they wouldn't even try to negotiate. They just say,
oh, this is this is a guy who on paper you just have to
give the max to how many years ago? Though my guy, Like I'm
saying, so the past does matter, right because of what's transpired over the
last four years. But it is kind of a weird scenario, as you
said, like we might see some incentives. I don't know if it'll be
crazy heavy like half the contract, but I could see some incentives in there,
worded in a way that isn't disrespectful to the fact that he's actually hurt.
I mean, like tours ACL tried to win the championship. Like he's
not getting hurt for no reason. He Look, he played in game two
on the meniscus. Like, look, I don't want to get into a
conversation because I don't think that this is any fault of theirs. I don't
think the Kauhi is choosing not to play or anything like that, but like
he's as acutely aware of how many games he's played as we are in the
front office. Is Like, you know, I'm not saying that if you
give him an incentive way in thing like that, it might you know,
that might be a sign of bad faith, but I mean he all,
like you know, he also knows what the marketplace could be like league wide
where he were to opt out. Here's a question for you. Would the
teams are spending money at the teams that the teams that can throw two or
twenty million dollars at you? That's where do you want to play, QUI
right, Yeah, you want to go to Charpotte, That's where you want
to run things out. Here's a question. Would you give the max contract
to a player who admittedly doesn't know how to backcut? Absolutely not. You
mean the guy who had a three sixty dunk on a backcut right before,
but he didn't even know how to backcut. I'm just I'm just doing this
to give you a shit specifically, Adam, Like you guys are losing the
podcast p Battle. Everybody's loving it, but you two. I'm gonna be
through it. It's true. No, it's not. They're cold at the
best NBA podcast out there besides clips and did Well. Okay, sure,
low bar. If we're number one, that's a low bar. Low bar
maybe sixty five says anyway. So if I was in the negotiating room with
PG, I would say, Paul I'm gonna slide you a number. Why
don't you go ahead and take a look. Tell me what you think.
I dramatically slide a piece of print, your paper, across a very paper.
It's a big sheet of paper. Oh yeah, it's a fool.
You know. You should slide laser printer. You slide when you're in like
art class and you have to get a big piece of paper off the thing
and rip it across the like the big cutter. That's where you're sliding across
the table. Yeah, and once they get it up and he's going,
this is just a blank piece of printer paper, And I'm saying, what
do you say, buddy? Four for zero. I do think part of
the leverage the front office has is not just the injuries. They know what's
been going on in the last few years. Not just that if that report
is true about the New York Knicks, but we think overall in the NBA
right now, there aren't a lot of teams that would likely give them the
max extension. But they also want to be home. That's part of the
reason they became Clippers to begin with. So you have that working in your
favor when you're going through these negotiations. Right, Yeah, it's again the
Clippers find themselves in multiple Yeah. One are of these guys Edwards Sharp and
the Magnetic Zeros a joke that I I don't get it. I don't know
the reference that I'd like to that terrible song let Me Come Home. Stop
clapper of music, stop clapp um. Yeah, I don't know. Like
the Clippers are just in quagmire after quagmire is what it feels like. The
contract negotiations are going to be a quagmire of the Harden things. And this
is partly This isn't their fault. It's just like we're in the age of
quagmires right now for the Clippers. Too many quagmires. Theoretically you should have
none. It's not a family guy, all right, Wheels off the pod.
Coming up. We are gonna be talking just Adam and I are gonna
be talking some summer league. This is why I've been gone. This was
actually not a planned absence by me. There was a forced absence. They
were just like, yeah, yeah, we're gonna record later. But you
know, it sounds like you're pretty busy if you've got something going on.
Man, Totally cool, dude, unless you got one of those Nick Batoon
jokes. Again. That's a classic that he was a classic bro. It's
season two, season two, episode three. We're starting hot. Um,
all right, the we're coming up? Were we talking the summer league?
Who's impressed? Who still can't get by anybody no matter what position they seem
to play? Uh, that's going up. The ads have been a little
loud. So if that's been loud for you, go ahead and turn it
down. We had ads coming up in the summer league talk in three two
one. Welcome back into Clipson, Dimp. I'm out of Maslin. It
is season two, episode three of season two. If you missed season one,
well you can go back and then try to guess who shot mister Burns
or whatever the hell because we revealed and it was mapisode one of season it
was Maggie shot mister Burns. We all thought, So there is some summer
league going around at the moment, and today it's a virus. I did,
I did. I was sitting on the couch the other day and Hannah
was like, what basketball are you watching? I was like, summer league.
She goes, what a summer league? Which I've explained many times and
It never gets easier to be like, this is the basketball that's before training
camp of guys who might not make the league but might Well, it's way
easier to sell if your team actually like has sucked, like draft equity or
like, yeah, you know, it makes a lot more sense. You
know. Yeah, I uh watched the game earlier today, partly just on
the fact that Noah Eagle, yeah, Clippers radio voice, was on the
call an NBA TV with three D Dennis Scott. It was fantastic. Felt
like he gave the Clippers a little more love on every make Now he didn't.
He's a professional like that. They were, they were taken on.
God the hell was the team they were playing today? It was the Memphis
Grizzlies because they have one of the biggest players in Summer League looking like hode
Or against the Clippers and Kenny Lofton Junior, no relation to the former baseball
player who was kind of an All World athlete. I think he did a
few different things. But Clippers ended up getting the victory there two and one
now in the three games in Summer League going back to last Saturday. But
you mentioned it before the break, Jason Preston didn't exactly shine, and he's
such as like that's the thing. He has the vision. The vision is
so there. He can pass with either hand. It's just like there's something
about it. Man. When he gets the ball in his hands and the
guys in front of him, he just says, uh, there's no way
to go around this player. Like it's got it's an aggression thing. His
size at the point guard position is good, it's just not he doesn't have
the first step. He does not have the first step. Yeah, I
wonder you know, is that something because he had the foot injury his rookie
season, if he lost a little bit of that juice because of that.
I don't know. He didn't even have juice to begin with, is the
issue. It's not like he went from crazy first step to no first step.
He went from kind of a first step to no first step. The
blogging juice was evident, though. Oh man, his WPM, I'll tell
you what highest WPM in the league, probably Jason Preston. He's probably at
buck fifteen words per minute would be. Well, you've been traditionally the Jason
Preston hater on this podcast, which is weird for a guy who hasn't played
much in the NBA. Do you want to start with your assessment on his
I like that Will gets that title. I'm not me was it wasn't he
took? I think he's so bad. I don't think he stinks. He's
just never gonna play for the clip, dude, he's never gonna go.
I think it was Will. Yeah, I think he's confirming, all right.
So Jason Preston very good at passing, not good at a whole bunch
of else. Moster, so passing doesn't matter. It doesn't gets Utah on
Saturday? How dare you s Saturday on Saturday in the middle of July is
putting up fifteen in Vegas. Musa Diabate didn't play in Wednesday's game because he's
been hurt or sick or something. Very energetic Two on three Hoops on their
kind of Primer said that he's a year away. I think that feels pretty
fair. Once again, he is a year away from being a year away.
If we start the season with all of the four is currently signed that
we have right now, Yeah, he's not. He doesn't have time.
Interesting fact, Adam, I'm sure you heard this on the broadcast. Tylu
said that Musadia Bate has put up six thousand more shots than any other guy
so far this offseason. Jeez, mamba mentality has that too many shots?
How do you get it to an exact number? He said, Lawrence Frank
keeps track of everything. Was the exact quote. He's got like the little
like the bouncer has, like the little clicker. Yeah, yeah, I
think he's just doing hash marks on the gym wall. But Merton last out
of practice, Well, he's got to be the last out if he's putting
up six thousand extra shots, So he's splitting up the three like it's just
a lot. What if he did all in one day? But I think,
yeah, probably another year away. Kobe Brown, though the shot has
not been there in the Summer league. Four seventeen from three. Everything else
there in summer League. He's grabbing boards like he's really active, got a
good handle. I like it. I'm really excited to see what he does
in the G League this year. Like he gets the personality mold I feel
like for the kind of guy the Clippers are looking for. Yeah, I'm
I've liked what the limited stuff I've really been able to catch from Kobe Brown.
Adam. What do you think. No, I've been oppressed with his
ball handling and some of his playmaking out there, like the way he brings
the ball up the floor. He's so comfortable. It's weird to see a
guy that size play with the basketball. And because he's big, he's he's
not Zion, but he's big, he's strong. It looks like Anthony Mason
a little bit late great Anthony Mason out there. So he has a skill
set. Obviously the shots haven't been following, but when they do, it
looks really good. His form looks nice. I think that's gonna be the
biggest thing for him. Is that three point shooting from his senior year where
he shot forty six percent going to translate at all. It doesn't need to
be that he'll be thirty eight percent at all. Yeah, it could be
thirty five percent. Like, if he's gonna do everything else that he's doing,
he's gonna be that bench guy who comes in you're like, oh shit,
okay, cool, thanks, Kobe Brown Like, yeah, It's it's
less about accentuating your strength sometimes as a young player and more on just minimizing
the miscuse and not standing out by not fitting in Actually, for a Tylou
coach team, he has enough of those with the guys who are already on
the team. If you're a young guy, you can't be making mistakes.
Jordan Miller room to grow. I don't know, nothing super special, that's
like popped out. I liked him in game one. I think he had
twelve points, four assists, a zero turnovers. And he is long,
like he's listened at six to seven. He's got the long wingspan he projects.
I know he's twenty three and still an older player too, but he
looks the part. He looks like your modern NBA switchable, versatile type of
player. Whether or not he ends up having the instincts and it all comes
together for him, I don't know, but the body type is certainly there.
Yeah. But again, Miller lte Jordan out there. I like that.
Actually, that's a great nickname. Will's back, Well, the jokes
are back. And then Xavier Moon, who clearly is the best player on
the Summer League team because he's twenty eight years old and has played more in
the NBA than anyone else, and I believe has scored. This is not
an exaggeration, Like sixty five percent of his points in the fourth quarter over
the three games the Clippers have played like that. I think it might be
higher legit. I'm gonna Russo had a stat for it. Um. But
he's a guy who like and I don't want this to come off as weird.
I feel bad that he's on a summer league team. I think he's
like, I mean, I think that he likes the opportunity to show out
and I mean, like, you know, it's just a bummer. He
just doesn't NBA, which he doesn't. He's so good, he doesn't really
fit in the NBA, especially like he's not the answer at point guard for
the Clippers. Yeah, okay, here we go, quarters one through three
for x Avery Moon in the Summer League nineteen points fourth quarters. That's total
for these three games fourth quarters forty one points. He scored like over fifty
percent of his points in the fourth He's he's a guy who like I see
him as a Clippers coach. And I don't mean that that's not in the
disrespectful way at all. The dude knows how to play NBA basketball. He's
so smart, he's so crafty. He's a he's a guy per Reggie,
like I see him as a coach for I hope he ends up as a
coach for the Clippers if he cannot find a spot on an NBA team,
because and inevitably when he has to stop playing, I hope he comes back
to the Clips as a coach because he just seems like he fits. He'd
fit nice coaching role for the Clippers. I think it's as simple for him
as it's just genetics. If he was a little bit bigger, with the
stuff that he literal the game, he would be fine. I think he
would be fine in the nineties, in the early two thousands. The problem
is team's matchup hunts so much more now that if you're under sized defensively,
if you're dominated, they're going to behind you and attack you and spam you.
That's it. The skill is there. He's got quickness, he's got
bounced like. That's why he can take over. He's the Jerry West of
fourth quarters in Summer League. Like, I mean, he's literally like the
greatest player in the history of the Canadian Basketball League. Didn't they name the
MVP Award after him? Yeah, and James Naysmith was Canadian and they named
it after no Seriously, like it's such a crazy career um, but I
hope he comes back for the clips um. He won two MVPs in Canada.
That's so sick. Yeah, what's disappointing is in this era of Clippers
basketball, and there's an upshot to this. I'll get to the end.
He won three vs. Jesus Christ Dominant. They have had this. Maybe
it's a self created problem, or it's not actually an issue, but it
seems to be one or a talking point for us. At least. They've
had a lack of a traditional point guard in the two one three era,
and we're going into year five of the two one three era. You would
have hoped that they might have been able to draft a guy in the summer
of twenty nineteen that they could have molded into form by now right, that
would have been ideal, or they could have found a guy in free agency.
It never really happened. But the other side of it is they got
Bones Highland. They let somebody else develop a young guy at a point guard
position and they were able to get him, and it's kind of like he's
their young guy draft pick that has the high ceiling at the point guard position
and hopefully the timeline still is there for him to match up with the two
one three era and for them to put it all together where he can be
a contributor on a team that has a lot of vets and has a lot
of expectations. Yeah, man, anything, I mean, I think we're
winding down. Any final thoughts on Summer League. That Thomas guy had a
nasty ankle breaker and he was very good, but overall, there just hasn't
been enough. And I've watched I haven't even watched the entire three games in
their entirety, but I've watched enough. We're enough highlights matters if your team
sucks and you want to see if the guy's gonna get actual minutes, is
gonna be good? Yeah. The guy who has been the standout is the
twenty eight year old an Xavier Moon, right. Unfortunately it hasn't been one
of the young guys, one of the twenty three year olds that would have
brought about a lot more excitement. When Brandon Boston was lighting things up,
it brought about more excitement. But because one of these older rookies hasn't popped
yet, people aren't exactly freaking out about the Summer League and there's just not
enough buzz right now among Clipper Nation because well, we already knew Moon could
do this, and like you said, it's too easy for him. He's
too talented for this league. But or he wants to flip that switch.
In the fourth quarter he shows why. Yeah, I think we're about wrapping
it up. That's about it. We're gonna be back next week for y'all,
maybe with the guest who knows could be fun. You can find us,
well, where can these wonderful people find this podcast? So you can
check us out over on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. If you could leave a
rating or review on either one of those platforms, would really appreciate it.
You can listen to us, as I said, on both of those.
We're also on Google Podcasts. We're on Amazon Music, We're on Stitcher,
we're on Deezer on All the Regular Suspects, All the Irregular Suspects. If
there's anywhere you listen to podcasts and we're not there, go and let us
know, please do. We're on YouTube at Clippers Podcasts and yeah, I
think about wraps up. I hope everyone's having a great offseason. Hope.
Ralph Lawler and Joe are doing okay. Yes, they caught up bit of
the COVID and Ralph said, see was kind of going through it or on
Twitter, so it's some of all the vibes over to them. Hope they're
doing okay, and we'll be back next week and as always, let's go clips