WEBVTT

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And it hits me, Oh my
gosh, this is that triangle. You

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know, there's explanation for everything that
occurred in the randallscham parsident doesn't involve aliens

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at all. It was completely silent. It comes right over our heads.

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He's so a Gothic cloy sorcererate is
standing into cleary. He turned over to

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my father and held his hand,
and he looked in his eyes and said,

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we're not alone. Hello, and
welcome to our show. I'm Martin

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Willshire host. We have a very
special guest for you this evening, Chris

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Mellon. He graduated from Meale with
a master's degree in international relations. He

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worked for many years for the US
Department of Defense as Deputy Assistant Secretary Security

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and Information Operations, as well as
Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence and

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Minority Staff Director of the Senate Select
Committee on Intelligence. His responsibilities included a

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review and oversight of intelligence activities,
which included Area fifty one and other sensitive

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governmental locations. He also spent over
a decade on the Senate Intelligence Committee,

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involved in oversight of NROCIA, NSA, and other intelligence organizations. He became

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the first congressional official to review all
of the NSA's compartmented programs. Chris is

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a recipient of numerous awards, including
the National Reconnaissance Office Gold Medal and the

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Defense Intelligence Agency's Directors Medal. Chris
has had a lifetime fascination with UFOs and

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has recently become a board member of
UFO Data, which is a UFO detection

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and tracking and he believes the topic
needs serious scientific investigation. I'm glad to

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hear that, and he's putting forward
his efforts, and I hope the listener

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has read Leslie Kyne's Huffington Post interview
with Chris. It's gone viral worldwide.

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If you have not, make sure
you check that out. And the easiest

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way to get there, really is, if you're listening, is just play

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a little Google Huffington Post and Chris
Mellon and that link will come right up.

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It's also in our show notes.
There's a link right there well.

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With no further ado. Welcome to
the show, Chris, Thanks Martin.

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It's pleasure to be here. Thanks
so much for joining us. I really

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do appreciate it, and you and
I had a couple of conversations I thought

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was pretty interesting, and first of
all, can you tell the listening audience

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a little bit about your background,
but starting out, what got you fascinated

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in the UFO topic? To begin
with? Okay, well, I was

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about seven years old and attending a
small school and a friend of the principal

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and made an old fashioned movie of
UFO, and the prince showed it to

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our entire school one night. It
was a boarding school that showed it after

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dinner. And you could see this
very large, seemingly massive, had a

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cannoted a feeling of density and mass. But it was luminous and it was

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a perfectly clear sunny day. It
wasn't one of these you know lights in

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the night sky. And you could
see it gently bank and enter a cumulous

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cloud. It sort of as wisps
of cloud passed by it. It disappeared

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into this cloud, and then it
emerged on the other side and sort of

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banked and then went off out of
sight. And it just, you know,

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filled me with sort of wondering,
awe, what could that be?

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And so it kind of set the
hook in me, and I started afterward

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reading all the books I could find
and so forth and maintain an interest in

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their sets. Now, any of
your classmates at the time, or any

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friends also fall along on that path
with you, or were you kind of

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buy your lonesome. You know,
I'm not in touch with anybody from from

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that period. That was a long
time ago, and I've moved a lot

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of times, so I don't know
if any of those and my classmates also

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had the same reaction. Yeah,
I mean immediately after the movie they did.

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But whether an interest they maintained,
I don't know. Yeah, yeah,

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that's I can understand that. And
at this time when you and I

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had a conversation, I got to
tell you. I'll just start out with

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one of the things that really impressed
me in our conversation was you said that

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you're you're sticking your neck out uh
here talking about this topic, and uh,

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can you tell the listening audience why
you're willing to do that? Well,

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this is a little lot of my
normal way, that's for sure.

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By and large, I'm concerned these
days with trying to promote sort of a

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breakthrough in Washington on some of the
partisan gridlock. And I'm working with a

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couple of think tanks, and I
write op eds and so forth, and

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this is not my normal area focus. But some months ago when I learned

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about the UFO Data projects, I
decided to volunteer and to get involved.

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This topic has been sort ofmired down
and stuck for many, many years,

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where they'll continue to be very interesting
reports and photos and videos, but nothing

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defendtive. And I think it's a
very legitimate topic. There are many very

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sober military and law enforcement people that
have reported these sightings, and you know,

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I really, I really think it's
time to just get serious about it,

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try to find out what's going on. I think UFO Data offers the

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best way to do that, and
we're encouraging people to get involved with us.

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We've got a website and you get
a visit for more information UFO data

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dot net. And if the government
is not going to take this on,

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and nobody else is, I mean, somebody, somebody have to set up,

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step up to the play. That's
what we're trying to do. That's

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great, and it's really glad.
I'm really glad that you decided to join

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that team. You know, all
I've heard it said many times. All

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it takes is one one to have
solid heavedence on and it's really amazing that

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there has been so many sightings.
I actually saw one myself. It's something

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that is fleeting and with technology.
I know that for instance, Ray Stanford

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was working on doing that all the
way back in the nineteen seventies with equipment

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trying to get and he did get
some data. And with the growing of

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technology since then, you know,
it just seems like we're getting closer to

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getting something that will get enough information
to make more people look at it,

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you know, right now there's such
a stigma in general, and I'm sure,

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Well, one of the questions I
had for you have have you had

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any black backlash all along the way
about this topic in your career? Well,

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I was very This was not an
interest that I advertised and worked in

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the government. This was not something
that I spoke about to other people until

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I became you know, good friends
with them, and you know, so

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it was It was not something that
I wasn't wearing this on my sleeve or

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raising it often in meetings or anything. It just typically wasn't appropriate. But

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I did kind of keep my eye
out and because I had this interest,

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and from time to time the issue
would arise, or I might be working

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with a colleague, for example,
who had been the senior intel officer at

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Space Come. And I remember one
night working with a Brigadier general who had

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been the senior intel officers based common
Flast assignment and so I, you know,

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just you know, informally, I
asked him about that just and he

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looked at me sort of like,
what are you crazy? He gave me

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this look like I had a third
eye in my forehead. And you know,

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generally speaking, the it's not an
issue that is uh talked about or

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has a lot of credibility, and
you rift your own credibility if you expressed

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too much interest in it. So
it's just something that I quietly, you

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know, it was always in my
mind because I had this interest, So

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I would keep my eye out for
things, and occasionally that would would lead

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to something or their their fruit.
In one case in particular, I had

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a friend who was a colleague at
that time on the SAT it tells his

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staff, and he was doing some
oversight at the Malee Optical Tracking Facility,

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which took space surveillance, and I
said, while you're out there, you

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know there's Abelian nights guys running you
just ask them, you know, they

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ever see any strange really anomalous stuff? That you can't identify. And so

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he called me up and said,
you know, I asked that question.

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Sure enough, there's a tape right
here, and these guys got video of

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these, you know, fireballs going
through the night sky. And I said,

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well, can we get a copy
of it? And I called this

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this Air Force officer and said,
sure, it's unclassified too, you know,

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just set it to it and I
forget it. They probably sent it

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to the Congressional Affairs or something.
But anyway, got the tape and one

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of the interesting things about that was
the one it showed these sort of five

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objects, four or five objects look
almost like a formation. May be low

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in the sky, sass, but
slower than the meteorite. You know,

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normally, how do you see a
metia it's kind of a flash. And

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this was much slower than that,
but but much faster than you would expect

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an airplane to be. And there
was a lot of heat, intense heat,

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probably didn't speed. And I knew
there were a few other folks who

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had an interest in this topic,
and so I asked the UH decided to

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you know, ask people they reached
didn't see the video, and a few

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people did, and and one of
the security officers who opened up a room

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for us to show the video.
Uh, one of the side. I

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had noticed all it for years and
salted in your retired Air Force guy,

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you know, completely down to earth
kind of shawow nothing odd or unusual.

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Let him in the least, and
he started to he saw this and all

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of a sudden he spontaneous and starting
to talk about this UFO side. And

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he had as a teenager with a
group of his friends in a convertible car

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in Kentucky and this thing was hovering
over a lamp post. It was a

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telephone post, and it was low
to the ground and it was this shaped

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object. And I found had that
kind of experience many many times with people

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that I knew well and I trusted
and respected. He had no reason to

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invent that. And he's, you
know, an utterly incredible person to me.

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And I've had the same sort of
experience with different military officers and other

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people. And that's part of the
reason that you know, I've continued to

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maintain an interest, notwithstanding the official
disinterest, and so you know, occasionally

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would arise, but you buy and
large, it's not something that you you

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advertise and talk about those positions,
you know, just credibility. Yeah,

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uh, just something you said earlier
just kind of sparked a question, and

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that is you said that this particular
film was not classified, they didn't have

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to worry about it. Now,
who decides or do you know, who

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would decide whether a film of an
object like that should be classified or not.

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Well, it depends on the source, you know. So in this

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case, the source was totally unclassified. The data from that they were collecting

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there from that instrument at MAUI was
open source and unclassified data. So you

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know, it's derived from the source. Now that some of you might be

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wasn't Whatever happened to that tape?
I had a copy of that. I

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can't find it, I'm saying,
but it appeared on national television. I

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mean, it just didn't get you
know, lost in some drawer. It

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ended up in the hands of Ted
Copple. You may recallhead a long running,

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well known nightly television program called Nightline
on Agency I believe it was a

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major network television show with high ratings, and he did the segment on this

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and he played the game and had
some guests on to talk about it.

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So this is not a case of
another one of these stories where you know,

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oh yeah, it sounds interesting,
but you know, how come there's

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nothing to back it up. You
know that that went out and probably millions

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of people saw it on TV,
but nothing happened afterwards. Now, one

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of the things I was thinking of, and I know that this came up

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in Leslie Kane's Huffington Post interview,
was that it was kind of like,

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so what I mean, like,
okay, this is unexplained, but so

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what no one makes a big deal
of it? What's the story with that?

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Is it the ridicule factor or is
there something deeper than that? Do

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you know? I don't know.
I don't know for certain. I think

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a lot of it is that,
you know, nobody has this in their

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job chart. Nobody has this assignment
of trying to evaluate UFOs, and so

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something like that pops up. Well
that's kind of interesting, but you know,

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hey, it's not my job,
it's not my problem, it's not

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my affair. You know, all
these military officers they have assignments, they're

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all busy, and you know,
they don't have time to do these things

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as hobbies, nor do they have
the authority they have clear direction instructions jobs

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to do, and if nobody's assigned
in initiative of the task, even though

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they might find it interesting, probably
nobody's going to take it on. So

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I don't think they have the where
particularly to send it to a value have

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an evaluate hit or saying we got
this and you know you're the guy responsible

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for UFOs, so we're going to
send it to you. He just went

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on the shelf. And now I
know there is a large feeling that well,

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somebody of the government must be looking
at this, because there are so

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many reports over the years from so
many people, including military people, and

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indeed it's it is a bit of
the conundrum. And you can see in

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black and white reports that are available
now to the Freedom of Information Act where

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there are objects referred to as UFOs
by Air Force officials in and over nuclear

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weapons storage facilities. It's there for
anybody who wants to see it. It's

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been released under the Freedom of Information
Act. And you know, to the

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credit the Air Force is then putting
this stuff out. You can find it

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online. There's some folks do some
great research, telling me. Paul Dean

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in Australia has a blog site called
documenting the Evidence you have post documenting the

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evidence, and heeded some colleagues in
this case, for example, he got

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stores of these memos and they're quite
incredible when you read them, and they

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really do make you wonder, you
know, how could the Air Force not

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think there's a problem here. You've
got several different airbases over the course of

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one year. You've got enemies that
are you know, they're scrambling jets,

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they're sending the security teams out in
some cases, you know, one case

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the object is passing directly over control
tower. Another one is like going down

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right over a runway. And there's
a whole lot of discussion about this,

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and it's happening on multiple days,
and it's happening over trying it multiple bases

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that are storing nuclear weapons. And
someone's written a book about this, which

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I've just looked at, a bit
called Clear Intent, and I don't I'm

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not terribly familiar with it. I
can't vouch for it all, but based

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on what I've seen from the Freedom
of Information Act documents that are available,

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there's clearly something behind this, and
you find quite a few of these kind

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of reports. I printed a couple
out on the show tonight, as I

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thought this might come up. So
here's one from January seventy five, National

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Military Command Center CFOs reported near the
flight line and Canon Air Force based in

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Mexico. Security police observing them reported
UFOs between five yards in diameter gold or

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silver and colored with blue light on
top, hole in the middle, in

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red light on bottom. Air Force
is checking with radar, additionally checking whether

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inversionating they JS Moore and you're able. US Navy get to be directed for

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operations. National Military Command Center.
That website is life with documents like that.

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So I get it in terms of
why people white so many people who

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are interested in this synonomy, it's
a large block of people clearly who just

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write it off and they just now
they can't be true, that's nonsense.

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You know, there's a segment of
the population. And I think most of

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those people are thinking that because they
just have and really looked into it,

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and I've done the research. And
it's interesting in the Internet age, when

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so much information is so readily available
on so many topics, that lots of

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people do that on lots of issues. And you know that I talk to

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people about global warming sometimes friends of
mind it and it was something that uh,

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you know, I just went online
and tug into the issue to try

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to find out what's going on here
and and everything. And then you can

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do that and you can get a
pretty good handle on it pretty quickly,

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a pretty good sense of what the
data says and the science and so forth.

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And even though it's readily available,
many people don't. There are some

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good sources on this topic for people
that want to take a you know,

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have an open mind and want to
take a uh, you know, want

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to look into it and make up
their own minds. And I think,

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as most people did, they'd say, you know, this is pretty curious,

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this is and strange, and there
are quite a few substantiated, well

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documented reports, and in fact that
there are also some very curious patterns in

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the data, patterns that weren't necessarily
evident when Blue Book did their study back

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in the early fifties. So I
can very well understand why people that the

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government must be on topits, they
must know about it. Maybe they do.

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Maybe there's some super secret program somewhere. Obviously, one can't prove a

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negative, right, so it would
be impossible to prove that such a thing

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doesn't exist, and it could I
can only say that in many, many

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years of being responsible for looking at
and keeping a book on black programs,

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both in the intelligence two Defense department, I never saw anything that suggested that,

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Nor did I th sort of informal
inquiries. And you know, sometimes

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you learn things not because you're formally
necessarily right into something, but you to

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osmosis sort of pick out something's going
on. And I never had any indication

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of that. So I understand why
people feel right. I respect you,

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I know, very right. Highly
educated people who looked at the evidence who

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leave something like that must exist.
They could be right. But I never

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saw any indication of that. You
know, the barocers need if you imagine

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yourself being the base commander somewhere or
some some echelon even perhaps above that,

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and you get reports that you know, we've had, you have you security

250
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teams the scenes, you know,
ruminous object, and they brushed out there

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and scrambled z that we we couldn't
verify this thing. We couldn't identify it.

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There was no physical evidence. And
even if you had a sort of

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a disturbing pattern event going on,
and you're a career official in a culture

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that doesn't accept this, doesn't want
to be weeded, which you know,

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people with the scans at that even
raising that topic. And plus you don't

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have answers to the questions that you're
superior is going to ask you, and

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you don't have any ready way to
come to grips with it, you might

258
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very well be tempted to just sweep
it under the rug or to just move

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on or just say, Okay,
we're going to increase cognitive security and we're

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going to do blah blah blah,
and nothing happens after that, and then

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you know, gets forgotten. So
the bureaucracy and in the organization instructure,

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particularly if nobody's saddled with the mission
to look into this. I wouldn't underestimate

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the potential for for these very large
organizations to avoid issues if they don't have

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to come to grips of them because
they're they're they're always putting fires out all

265
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the time, they've got their hair
on fire, They've got lots of issues

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that they have to deal with,
and something is awkward, difficult, maybe

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unmanageable, might fall through the cracks
so or just be sort of buried or

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you know, left behind as it
doesn't occur. Maybe we don't have to

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deal with it hasn't happened again,
Okay, fine, So you know I

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can only speak to what I had
experienced, and that was I never saw

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any indication of any cover up or
you know, specialists put them involving the

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exploitation of you knowing materials or even
trying to collect on the UFOs or anything

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like that. Chris, One of
the things one of the questions that I

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had a number of people send in, you know, questions last week and

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kind of along the lines you were
just saying about you didn't see anything there.

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You know, John Alexander speaks of
the same when he looked into it.

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One of the things I had thought
myself only because of things like Project

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Bluebook, and you know, when
these things are flying around in our airspace

279
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and there's enough people seeing them,
you would think that there would be an

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interest in some possible compartmentalized section of
our government somewhere. But someone was along

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the lines of this whole thing,
whether you would share the information if you

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knew it, you know, there's
someone that's going to come in and say

283
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something. And that one is while
you were working for the d D,

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did you sign a secrecy oath?
And if so wouldn't that bar you from

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letting us know that there was a
UFO cover up? Well, I signed

286
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lots of secrecy os and but none
of them had to do with anything having

287
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to do with UFOs. And if
there were such a program, I wouldn't

288
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have been joining UFO data. Most
in all probability, it wouldn't be as

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frustrated as I am by the situation
we find ourselves in. And in terms

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of this perception too, you know, bear in mind that people who are

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following this data at this this issue, like you and I, you're interested,

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you know, we're aware of this
sort of constant that this stream of

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reports that goes on. But those
reports they're going to move on, or

294
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they're going to do websites of people
that follow this. The average person has

295
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:22.160
no idea. The average military officer
is not seeing that. They're not hearing

296
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that unless there's some very surprising,
unusual incident that occurs in their immediate vicinity.

297
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In all probability, they have an
entirely different perception. It's not on

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their radar at all. And so
I think you know when and this is

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you know, commonplace with a lot
of things. You know, if you're

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deeply interested in something and you're you're
you're very cognizant of what's going on in

301
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that field, and you follow it
closely. And the average person doesn't share

302
00:27:53.480 --> 00:28:00.400
that awareness. And you know,
most people in the government may I would

303
00:28:00.400 --> 00:28:03.880
say most don't take the subject seriously
at all, and they're not following it,

304
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and they're not seeing many of these
reports, and they don't have the

305
00:28:07.720 --> 00:28:14.240
same sense or perception that there's a
lot of activity going on right I've said

306
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a number of times in the show
too, the average person is so focused

307
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on, you know, what's going
on in their lives around them. A

308
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lot of you know, it's a
very small percentage of let's say, just

309
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the United States, of people that
have an interest or even ponder what could

310
00:28:34.720 --> 00:28:40.960
be going on. You know,
it's really very, very small. And

311
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you know, with all the information. There was a question that came up

312
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:48.240
earlier on the message board, with
all the information being blasted out and shotgun

313
00:28:48.279 --> 00:28:56.519
manner to everyone, you know,
it's amazing what young people are going through

314
00:28:56.599 --> 00:29:00.960
today, and that was a question
that came up. How can we get

315
00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:04.400
young people interested in the topic of
UFOs. What what's your thoughts on that?

316
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:08.759
Hmm, it's interesting. I don't
know. I mean, there there

317
00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:15.039
there seems to be a considerable amount
of interest out there. I don't know.

318
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:18.759
You know, there's some different polling
data I've seen a little bit of.

319
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:26.440
I am not a uh expert in
this field in terms of somebody who

320
00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:30.039
has been writing books about it and
researching it, like you know, for

321
00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:37.480
for decades, like my colleague god
Leslie Keane on UFO data, I bring

322
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:44.359
a little bit of a different expertise
and perspective to the issue. I certainly

323
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:49.880
follow it as I can, but
again, you know, that's part of

324
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:56.000
the reason that we want to bring
science to bear hair. If we can

325
00:29:56.079 --> 00:30:04.720
collect very high fidelity, very high
quality data, and we have an array

326
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:15.240
a sensor platform that may have as
many as fourteen different sensors collecting electromagnetic radiation

327
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:25.559
in different frequencies, testing for electrostatic
discharges, distortions, electromagnetic field and the

328
00:30:25.599 --> 00:30:33.799
gravitational field and so on, then
if we are able to get that data,

329
00:30:33.839 --> 00:30:36.839
and I think there's good reason we
could talk about this to believe that

330
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we can, then I think that
will change public perception for people young and

331
00:30:41.720 --> 00:30:48.920
old. Okay, Well, one
of the things that we had talked about

332
00:30:49.119 --> 00:30:56.920
earlier. Is in the news,
is the black triangles or large triangles that

333
00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:03.960
all these people are seeing triangles there. One of the things that also came

334
00:31:03.039 --> 00:31:06.559
up in the news is, you
know, Michael Schrad there's a number of

335
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.240
people that are claiming that they think
these are military. And with your background

336
00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:21.359
and all the research that you had
hands on and special access programs and all

337
00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:26.480
that, what what do you have
to say to that claim? Well,

338
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:32.599
a couple of things. There are
undoubtedly cases where people are seeing say a

339
00:31:32.680 --> 00:31:40.160
B two bomber and you know,
in a context that they're not expecting it,

340
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:44.720
or a location or whatever. They
are undoubtedly cases where that is generating

341
00:31:44.759 --> 00:31:49.279
some UFO reports. But in some
of the other cases, for example,

342
00:31:49.359 --> 00:32:00.160
the famous incident in Belgium or the
famous incident in southern Illinois ten years later,

343
00:32:00.480 --> 00:32:07.440
where you had multiple witnesses, you
had an object. The B two

344
00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:16.440
did not take flight until July of
eighty nine, so it could not explain

345
00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:28.920
these sightings in the first instance.
Secondly, it was my job to you

346
00:32:28.960 --> 00:32:34.240
know, I participated in the group
that was keeping track of all these things

347
00:32:35.319 --> 00:32:40.759
on behalf of the Secretary of Defense, and I recall a specific incident that

348
00:32:45.240 --> 00:32:50.960
you know, helps to keep the
memory clear for me. So the chairman

349
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:57.880
of the Appropriations Committee, Senator Bobby
Bird, who was one of the most

350
00:32:57.960 --> 00:33:02.279
powerful men in Washington because he controlled
the purse strings, and he was noted

351
00:33:02.599 --> 00:33:09.240
and famous for many things, one
for being the Senate Parliamentarian par excellence,

352
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:16.319
the Senate historian. He was a
champion of the legislative body more ardently than

353
00:33:16.359 --> 00:33:23.000
perhaps any other legislator who's ever lived. And he would tear the hide off

354
00:33:23.000 --> 00:33:27.640
of anybody who dared to cross him. And everybody knew it because he had

355
00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:32.559
done it many times. And we
got to call a day from Congressional Affairs,

356
00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:37.400
and he had been reading these articles
about this Aurora spacecraft. And you

357
00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.119
know, how come the committee hadn't
been briefed on it, because he,

358
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:46.599
by law has to be briefed on
all the special access programs has to be

359
00:33:46.640 --> 00:33:52.400
notified, and people don't probably isn't
aware of this. All these programs are

360
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.359
brief to Congress. There are multiple
layers of review and oversight. I wasn't

361
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.680
sure how much I could say about
this initially, so ident little research,

362
00:34:00.720 --> 00:34:08.400
and it turns out that the DD
instruction is unclassified and specifically released and posted

363
00:34:08.480 --> 00:34:14.079
on the web. So if you're
interested in getting a sense of how these

364
00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:19.440
programs are managing what the oversight mechanism
is, you can look at DoD instruction

365
00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:25.239
fifty two zero five dot one one, which is approved for release, and

366
00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:37.159
you will it describes the structure and
how these programs are reviewed for legality and

367
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:42.559
congressional notification. And it doesn't say
this because it's also part of the function

368
00:34:42.679 --> 00:34:47.760
is to make sure that you don't
have one black program and one agency or

369
00:34:47.840 --> 00:34:52.519
service spending money on something that is
duplicating what another group is doing somewhere else

370
00:34:52.559 --> 00:34:55.440
and they just don't know about each
other because the program is so secret.

371
00:34:57.440 --> 00:35:01.400
So all those things are going on. So this call comes in and we

372
00:35:01.480 --> 00:35:05.239
all kind of looked at each other
and you like, well, we don't

373
00:35:05.280 --> 00:35:08.480
remember anything like that, and so
we all ran it down to make double

374
00:35:08.559 --> 00:35:14.760
sure, you know, contacted all
the appropriate people with Air Force and Joint

375
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:19.599
staff and so forth, and you
know, reviewed the programs whatever. And

376
00:35:19.679 --> 00:35:23.079
you know, we replied, we
told the Congressional Affairs Office, you can

377
00:35:23.159 --> 00:35:30.719
tell them categorically, note without hesitation, there is no such program. We

378
00:35:30.760 --> 00:35:37.800
don't have anything like that. So
basically, and so go ahead. Whatever

379
00:35:37.199 --> 00:35:44.639
these people were seeing in Belgium,
the Belgian military and tracking. First of

380
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:51.559
all, the performance characteristics were unlike
anything that we had or any technology we

381
00:35:51.639 --> 00:36:00.480
had. Secondly, you know it
it was definitely not It was not something

382
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.679
that we had you know, on
the books, was not It was not

383
00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:12.800
us. And very curious. You
know, if the US had had something

384
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:21.400
like that, it would be completely
out of character for American military people to

385
00:36:21.480 --> 00:36:25.119
be flying around a place like Belgium. I mean, the American desert out

386
00:36:25.119 --> 00:36:30.519
west and a test rained sure over
the ocean or you know, some remote

387
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:37.199
areas, but flying low and slow
over a NATO ally, why would you

388
00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:42.480
do that? I mean, that's
that doesn't make any sense. So,

389
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:49.559
you know, I don't I understand
why people surmised that it would be that

390
00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:55.360
these things might have been US vehicles
of some advanced nature, But in those

391
00:36:55.400 --> 00:37:00.840
cases they clearly weren't. The B
two bomber wasn't even flying then, Yeah,

392
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:05.920
what about you know, there's the
old saying. Well, I say

393
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:10.920
old because it was years ago,
sunt work, skunk works. Ben Rich

394
00:37:12.800 --> 00:37:19.079
said that they already have Let's see, here's a quote right here, and

395
00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.679
this We're going to be reading some
of the comments that people left on the

396
00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:27.639
Huffington Post interview, but this one
in particular says Ben Rich. It's a

397
00:37:27.639 --> 00:37:30.760
direct quote. We already have the
means to travel among the stars, but

398
00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.800
these technologies are locked up in black
projects, and it would take an act

399
00:37:34.840 --> 00:37:39.360
of God to ever get them out
to benefit humanity. Anything you can imagine,

400
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:43.840
imagine, we already know how to
do. So what's your what's your

401
00:37:44.159 --> 00:37:47.800
did you know of Ben Rich?
And what's your opinion? Ever, I'm

402
00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:57.159
not familiar with this, gentleman.
And if that's news to me that anything

403
00:37:57.239 --> 00:38:01.760
you can imagine we already have that, that's that's news to me. It

404
00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.559
is news to you, That's not
my perception. Yeah, so Area fifty

405
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:10.679
one. Now I'm going to be
asking all different types of questions also about

406
00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:15.679
Hillary Clinton as well, because I
want to make sure I get that question

407
00:38:15.760 --> 00:38:22.239
in before the top of the hour. But so Area fifty one, the

408
00:38:22.320 --> 00:38:28.559
projects in DARPA, there projects,
nothing that you were ever aware of,

409
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:35.039
was like really high end technology.
You know, there's for instance, you

410
00:38:35.079 --> 00:38:38.840
know a lot of people are saying
the triangles appear to be like something that

411
00:38:38.920 --> 00:38:43.360
defies gravity, you know, it
does. It moves much slower than a

412
00:38:43.440 --> 00:38:46.280
conventional aircraft in like forty miles an
hour or something like that, And how

413
00:38:46.280 --> 00:38:54.480
could it stay afloat Nothing that you
ever saw look like high end technology that's

414
00:38:54.559 --> 00:39:05.519
not conventional. Yeah, we excel
and are justifiably you know, famous and

415
00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:16.000
known around the world for for exotic
technology. And we have incredible engineering talent

416
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:28.800
and incredibly dedicated people that are producing
you know, extraordinary results in many fields

417
00:39:28.920 --> 00:39:35.280
in many ways. But I never
saw anything that you would look at it

418
00:39:35.320 --> 00:39:45.440
and say, you know, wow, that that couldn't be explained by just

419
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.280
the talent of our people and the
resources, and you know, this must

420
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:57.920
have come from some someplace else.
I never saw anything that, you know,

421
00:39:58.320 --> 00:40:07.119
involved something that was so orthogonal to
you know, our understanding, conventional

422
00:40:07.199 --> 00:40:10.440
understanding of science, that you would
think it must have come from somewhere else.

423
00:40:10.880 --> 00:40:15.960
Now, with your level of clearance, how deep could you go if

424
00:40:15.960 --> 00:40:21.320
you were actually looking for something like
that. Well, you know, as

425
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:28.400
I say, I mean, the
Sectuary of Defense has a mechanism for conducting

426
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:34.800
oversight of all these programs in the
Defense Department, and that was one of

427
00:40:34.840 --> 00:40:42.039
my jobs. So you know,
presumably I should have would have known if

428
00:40:42.039 --> 00:40:45.800
we had, you know, a
time machine or something that could you know,

429
00:40:45.920 --> 00:40:51.000
travel faster than light or in one
of these programs. Now, of

430
00:40:51.079 --> 00:40:58.280
course, there is always the possibility
that there's something completely outside the DOOD directives

431
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.679
and policies and budgets and programs.
You know, maybe there's something that's so

432
00:41:01.760 --> 00:41:07.000
completely radical they you know, took
it out of the government altogether, or

433
00:41:07.000 --> 00:41:08.920
something that I wouldn't know about it. So you mean like in the private

434
00:41:08.960 --> 00:41:14.599
sector. Yeah, I mean,
you know, I can't say that's impossible,

435
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:17.719
and I'm not claiming omniscience. I
can only say that speak to what

436
00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:22.639
I saw, what I know,
and what I knew, and I never

437
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.800
had the sense again that you know, most people even took the subject seriously.

438
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:28.840
In the government, they weren't concerned
with it. It wasn't on their

439
00:41:28.880 --> 00:41:32.519
agenda. I know. You know, people would laugh about it sometimes,

440
00:41:32.639 --> 00:41:36.000
you know, people at Area fifty
one, you know, they may crack

441
00:41:36.039 --> 00:41:38.360
a joke about it. If you
were going out there about the aliens and

442
00:41:38.360 --> 00:41:49.119
stuff. It was not an atmosphere
or an environment in which this was an

443
00:41:49.119 --> 00:41:52.039
issue or deemed to be. You
know, it wasn't on people's radar.

444
00:41:52.199 --> 00:41:58.039
It was it was deemed to be
sort of a little bit of a you

445
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:01.000
know, wacky area, and and
you know, so people who some people

446
00:42:01.039 --> 00:42:08.280
who did have an interest, like
myself, weren't keen to advertise that factor

447
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:14.599
talk about it much. But again
I never, as I said in the

448
00:42:14.639 --> 00:42:20.920
Huffington Post article, I never had
the faintest whiff of anything involving a UFO

449
00:42:21.079 --> 00:42:25.840
cover up. Again doesn't mean it
couldn't be there. But I had a

450
00:42:25.880 --> 00:42:30.320
lot of access in the intel NDOD
world because of my responsibilities. It was

451
00:42:30.360 --> 00:42:38.519
my job to you know, catalog
and review these programs in a fairly comprehensive

452
00:42:38.559 --> 00:42:45.079
way, and I just never encountered
that. But you know, one of

453
00:42:45.119 --> 00:42:50.119
the interesting issues, and one of
the things I'm involved with more in my

454
00:42:50.119 --> 00:42:57.239
my daily life more centrally, is
this issue of trust in government. And

455
00:42:57.360 --> 00:43:05.239
we are at a point where it's
ebbing to perhaps in all time low,

456
00:43:05.760 --> 00:43:09.039
maybe at least in the post World
War two era, or maybe at least

457
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:13.440
the highest level since Vietnam. I
don't know, but it's certainly we're in

458
00:43:13.480 --> 00:43:17.000
a bad place that way. And
you know the fact that the candidates who

459
00:43:17.039 --> 00:43:23.559
are prevailing in the nomination process or
you know, there. There appeal largely

460
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:30.079
lies in there to some degree in
their anti establishment sort of credentials and views

461
00:43:32.239 --> 00:43:36.119
the gridlock. We have the money. There are a whole lot of reasons

462
00:43:36.159 --> 00:43:40.000
that trust is really a big issue
these days and a problem in a lot

463
00:43:40.000 --> 00:43:45.840
of ways, and I think it
manifests itself kind of across the board in

464
00:43:45.840 --> 00:43:51.440
this area. It's it's very prominent, but by no means is it limited

465
00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:53.519
to this topic, that's for sure. Yeah, no, I totally agree.

466
00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:58.400
There. We have a caller on
the line. That caller, welcome

467
00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:01.320
to the show. What's your first
name and where are you calling from?

468
00:44:01.599 --> 00:44:07.599
Hi, Martin? This was Phil
from Big Dass Lake in Michigan. Oh.

469
00:44:07.679 --> 00:44:10.280
Phil, you're the guy that's going
on a fishing trip, right,

470
00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:15.400
Ben on a fishing trip? Oh? Ben on a fishing trip. Yeah?

471
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:17.920
How you doing? So? You
have a question for our guests?

472
00:44:20.199 --> 00:44:22.599
Yes, I do. I've been
listening to your guests for over a power

473
00:44:22.599 --> 00:44:28.920
now and I haven't really heard him
say anything. And I don't mean to

474
00:44:28.960 --> 00:44:35.559
be too hard that I just I'm
looking for something specific that this guy is

475
00:44:35.800 --> 00:44:43.039
bringing to the table because I'm just
not hearing anything other than I don't know

476
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:47.679
how to say it to just conversation
but no information. Well, why don't

477
00:44:47.719 --> 00:44:51.920
you, why don't you, why
don't you give him a specific question you'd

478
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:54.119
like from him? Actually, may
I address that? Yeah? Sure,

479
00:44:54.400 --> 00:45:02.239
exception so I don't know you know
what you caught my remarks. But what

480
00:45:02.280 --> 00:45:07.880
I'm bringing to the table is very
specific. It's very concrete, and if

481
00:45:07.880 --> 00:45:14.320
you're really interested in finding out the
truth, we invite you to go to

482
00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:20.679
UFO data dot net, make a
contribution or sign up as a volunteer if

483
00:45:20.679 --> 00:45:24.000
you want to know you go,
okay, well, I mean this is

484
00:45:24.519 --> 00:45:30.599
I'm sorry. You just lost me. I think you just lost everybody else

485
00:45:30.400 --> 00:45:40.039
giving you a dying for anything were
interested or not you can or what?

486
00:45:40.199 --> 00:45:45.000
Okay, bye, bye see you. Okay, sorry about that, but

487
00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:51.679
just me let me I'm sorry,
I don't have I'm not sure what the

488
00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.039
guy expected me to say. All
the expect me to come on here and

489
00:45:54.079 --> 00:45:58.599
say, you know, yeah,
there's aliens, you know under some air

490
00:45:58.639 --> 00:46:01.480
base or something. Let me,
Well, I'm just what I'm trying to

491
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:10.599
do is build support for an activity. They can help all of us achieve

492
00:46:10.679 --> 00:46:15.159
some real clarity, and if we
succeed, we may in fact get the

493
00:46:15.159 --> 00:46:21.400
government also to step up. Now, if people say they're really interested and

494
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:22.719
they want to, you know,
uncover this, they want to know the

495
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:25.360
truth, they want to find what's
going on. That's what we're trying to

496
00:46:25.400 --> 00:46:31.039
provide. Okay, So this UFO
data, by the way, is a

497
00:46:31.119 --> 00:46:36.800
nonprofit and it's no one's gaining any
money out of it. And also you

498
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:39.679
can volunteer. For instance, I
do have a banner on my sidebar and

499
00:46:40.239 --> 00:46:46.000
have offered to help out, you
know. And there's there's other UFO detection

500
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:53.559
out there as well. There's UFO
Talk Mark d' antonio and Doug Trumbull,

501
00:46:54.119 --> 00:46:58.239
So there's other people trying to do
this, and I think, you know,

502
00:46:58.280 --> 00:47:04.719
a collaboration between anyone that can help. So it's not like someone's looking

503
00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:08.679
for money. So I think film
might have taken that in a different way.

504
00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:13.760
I'm not really sure, but I
promised i'd try to get by the

505
00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:20.280
top of the hour the topic of
Hillary Clinton. So let's just I just

506
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:23.199
want to know what your opinion is
of when she said that she's going to

507
00:47:23.239 --> 00:47:29.199
look into getting to the bottom of
the UFO topic or uIP I believe she

508
00:47:29.320 --> 00:47:34.719
put it. Also, do you
think that was just some type of way

509
00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:40.119
to possibly get voters attention, or
do you think she is sincere? And

510
00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:44.880
also the most important question, I
want to ask you, if someone is

511
00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:50.079
sitting in the president's chair, can
they know anything they want to know?

512
00:47:52.159 --> 00:47:59.519
The answer to that question is absolutely. Here's kind of the way it works,

513
00:47:59.559 --> 00:48:07.280
though, And I apologize Martin.
I it sounds like I'm I'm maybe

514
00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:15.119
losing your audience here, but I
can only speak to my experience and anyway,

515
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:21.920
so the president has far better,
more important things to do than look

516
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:27.599
at classified programs, of which there
are a great many and many different agencies

517
00:48:27.679 --> 00:48:35.840
and organizations. They're typically boring,
they're technical. There things that are very

518
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:42.440
straightforward. Just because something's in a
black program doesn't mean it's interesting or it's

519
00:48:42.480 --> 00:48:46.000
even terribly important. You know,
most of these things are very useful.

520
00:48:46.079 --> 00:48:53.360
They're logical applications of technology, the
challenges we have, trying to improve weapons

521
00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:58.719
systems, try to improve the safety
of our military personnel, all those kinds

522
00:48:58.719 --> 00:49:07.320
of things. They don't The president
absolutely can. The DD will salute.

523
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:13.760
He's the commander in chief. And
I caused a little confusion. I think

524
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.880
I was trying to In the Huffington
Post article, address the question of you

525
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.800
know, wouldn't Hillary Clinton already know
about these programs if they existed, you

526
00:49:22.880 --> 00:49:27.800
know, because she's such a senior
official. And what I was trying to

527
00:49:27.800 --> 00:49:32.079
point out is that no, these
programs are on a need to know basis,

528
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:38.159
and Secretary of State wouldn't have any
routinely any reason to know about most

529
00:49:38.159 --> 00:49:43.199
of these things. If it became
pertinent, of course they could provide a

530
00:49:43.199 --> 00:49:47.519
briefing, but these people are dealing
with much more important things by and large.

531
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:52.800
If somebody's working on you know,
making a strengthening a tank armor or

532
00:49:53.400 --> 00:49:59.199
increasing you know, the ability to
jam a signal at twenty three megahertz or

533
00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:04.199
something like that, you know,
that's not worth their time, and it

534
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:08.760
doesn't have any big policy implications.
It's just something we don't want potential adversaries

535
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:14.280
to know that we're doing. And
so yes, absolutely, of course the

536
00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:21.480
president can get anything they want,
but it's pretty rare for them to you

537
00:50:21.480 --> 00:50:24.880
know, they're really focused, naturally
and appropriately at a very high strategic level.

538
00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:30.800
Occasionally there might be something that rises
to their level where there might be

539
00:50:31.039 --> 00:50:37.760
you know, a foreign policy issue
involved or something. But absolutely anything they

540
00:50:37.800 --> 00:50:43.280
want they can get. But there's
a distinction I would make between the President

541
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:50.880
himself and the National Security Council's staff, which number one hundreds, and they

542
00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.360
will sometimes the White House staff ask
for things and be denied, but the

543
00:50:54.400 --> 00:51:01.119
President absolutely, of course the Defense
Department will salute and move mountains to support

544
00:51:01.159 --> 00:51:07.400
the commander achieve right. And I
think that anyone that takes that office basically

545
00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:13.000
has the tiger by the tail.
And she probably or may forget that.

546
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:15.960
She even said that by the time
she gets her hands full if she does

547
00:51:15.039 --> 00:51:22.880
become president. That is. We
have the one and only Lee Spiegel in

548
00:51:22.960 --> 00:51:28.559
the chat room from the Huffington Post. And here's a he posts a question

549
00:51:28.639 --> 00:51:30.239
earlier, but I'll get to this
one that's up there right now. He

550
00:51:31.599 --> 00:51:37.079
says, Chris, please speculate on
what you think freely operating in this is

551
00:51:37.119 --> 00:51:42.400
freely operating the guys around our planet
that has for decades out maneuvered all attempts

552
00:51:42.440 --> 00:51:46.840
to engage them in the sky and
speak to the issue of how many commercial

553
00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:53.280
airline pilots have had close encounters but
they're encouraged not to go public about it

554
00:51:53.320 --> 00:52:01.920
because it might hurt their career.
Well, you know, I'm reluctant to.

555
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.719
I agree with Lee that there's a
lot of data that you know,

556
00:52:08.760 --> 00:52:12.440
as I look at the data,
it paints a similar picture. I don't

557
00:52:12.440 --> 00:52:16.039
think there's any doubt that there are
a lot of airline pilots who've reported I

558
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:20.679
know that there are a lot of
airlineportans and military pilots who've had sightings and

559
00:52:20.719 --> 00:52:25.239
reported them, and it's all very
mysterious, and that's why we're trying to

560
00:52:28.280 --> 00:52:31.440
build support to deploy some technology.
It would be great if the government were

561
00:52:31.480 --> 00:52:37.440
doing this, that would be my
preference, but since they're not, and

562
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:43.880
nobody else's, we're trying to do
that so that we can actually, you

563
00:52:43.920 --> 00:52:52.480
know, bring high quality, first
rate scientific technical data to bear on the

564
00:52:52.559 --> 00:53:00.239
issue and get past this very frustrating
impasse of these continued rapports, which are

565
00:53:01.119 --> 00:53:08.199
you know, fire the curiosity but
never go anywhere right and never lead to

566
00:53:08.239 --> 00:53:15.760
any resolution or clarity. I'm reluctant
to to speculate. I don't rule anything

567
00:53:15.760 --> 00:53:20.000
out. I think what we need
is data. Is we need, we

568
00:53:20.039 --> 00:53:23.480
need, we need, we need
better, more and better information to answer

569
00:53:23.480 --> 00:53:27.519
the question he's posing, and that's
what we're trying to do. So he

570
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:31.000
also adds this just now, So
please speculate what your inner senses might tell

571
00:53:31.039 --> 00:53:37.079
you what might be going on.
Well, you know, I wish I

572
00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:43.079
knew. I really wish I'd believe
me. I'm burning with curiosity ever since

573
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:45.920
I was a kid. This fires
my imagination in all kinds of ways.

574
00:53:46.320 --> 00:53:52.679
Well, what do you think about
the extraterrestrial Uh? Thought, I don't

575
00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:59.519
see any reason to rule that out
whatsoever. And I say that for a

576
00:53:59.559 --> 00:54:07.159
variety reasons. One, you know, our we've made unbelievable strides in a

577
00:54:07.199 --> 00:54:12.559
fairly short period of time. When
I think just about my own grandfather riding

578
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:15.800
and a horse and buggy and not
having a phone, and be born before

579
00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:21.760
there were airplanes and all of that. Yet I think, you know,

580
00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:23.840
we don't know what dark matter is. If we don't know what dark energy

581
00:54:24.000 --> 00:54:28.559
is, that's ninety five percent of
the universe. We haven't been able to

582
00:54:28.599 --> 00:54:34.960
reconcile quantum mechanics with the general relativity. With regard to the meaning remaining five

583
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:42.280
percent, we have already got vehicles
that have left this A vehicle has left

584
00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:46.639
the Solar System and all others on
Mars. So everything we're learning about the

585
00:54:46.719 --> 00:54:57.599
universe and the entire trajectory of our
cosmological understanding is one of one hundred and

586
00:54:57.639 --> 00:55:00.800
eighty degrees from where we started,
which was that we're at the center of

587
00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:06.199
the universe and we're unique and everything
goes around us. Everything we learned at

588
00:55:06.199 --> 00:55:08.079
every step of the way, it
seems to suggest more and more that we're

589
00:55:08.199 --> 00:55:15.960
a very commonplace solar system and a
very commonplace galaxy. And you know,

590
00:55:16.159 --> 00:55:21.920
there are trulyions the planets in this
galaxy, and so you know, I'm

591
00:55:22.840 --> 00:55:29.280
I don't think there's any reason to
exclude that possibility that, but I want

592
00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:34.360
to get to the point of really
being getting beyond speculation and trying to really

593
00:55:34.360 --> 00:55:40.440
answer the question. I'm glad glad
to hear that. You know, when

594
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:45.719
when that article came out in the
Huffington Post, it went viral, and

595
00:55:45.760 --> 00:55:51.159
there's a ton of different articles out
there now everywhere that people have kind of

596
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:57.119
gone off of that and you know, made their own speculation and some of

597
00:55:57.119 --> 00:56:00.239
the things I know in conversation with
you, the things we just cleared up,

598
00:56:00.239 --> 00:56:05.639
and that is the president who's who's
sitting in that chair can get any

599
00:56:05.719 --> 00:56:14.840
information that they want, but anyone
lower than that than that position it's possible

600
00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:20.440
that they cannot access certain let me
try. Let me try to be a

601
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:24.280
little bit more clear, perhaps,
so you know within the Defense Department,

602
00:56:24.360 --> 00:56:29.320
of course, the Secretary of Defense
can get anything he wants the deputy can

603
00:56:30.199 --> 00:56:34.800
you know, there is a chain
I mentioned that VOD instruction, and it

604
00:56:34.920 --> 00:56:39.199
stipulates the process of how these prayers
are managed. And as I mentioned before,

605
00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:44.719
they are all brief to Congress to
the appropriate people. So there you

606
00:56:44.760 --> 00:56:47.880
know, there is oversight. It's
not as though this is a world.

607
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:54.199
Some people would argue that we have
too much oversight, and in some areas

608
00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:00.199
I think they're right. There are
things that we are unable to do quickly

609
00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:06.719
and effectively, sometimes on intelligence matters, for example, because we have so

610
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:12.039
many echelons of review and so many
attorneys and so much coordination. We have

611
00:57:12.360 --> 00:57:17.159
committees in Congress that have staffs that
are far larger than any other government in

612
00:57:17.199 --> 00:57:24.800
the world. The Intelligence Committee has
a staff that's twice as large at least,

613
00:57:27.000 --> 00:57:29.920
as I recall, is the Arb
Services Committee, even though the budget

614
00:57:29.960 --> 00:57:34.559
that they oversee is about one tenth
the size. So there's a lot of

615
00:57:34.639 --> 00:57:42.280
poking around, a lot of review
of these budgets and programs, and certainly

616
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:47.599
the president and people in the appropriate
chains of command and the appropriate positions can

617
00:57:47.639 --> 00:57:52.559
get access to this information. Now, Chris was what were some of the

618
00:57:52.599 --> 00:57:58.280
things that people sort of took out
a context in that interview that you'd like

619
00:57:58.320 --> 00:58:01.239
to clear up just a couple of
them, if you would. Well,

620
00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:07.280
the one, I think the one
the first one was the one about that

621
00:58:07.440 --> 00:58:10.320
was the one you've already touched on
at Harwy Clinton versus the President was funny.

622
00:58:10.360 --> 00:58:15.320
There was an article in a British
tabloid that that said, uh,

623
00:58:16.599 --> 00:58:22.199
you know, for redew the official
says President won't be told about UFO cover

624
00:58:22.320 --> 00:58:24.840
up or something, and I and
I had to laugh because, first of

625
00:58:24.880 --> 00:58:28.000
all, I said, as far
as I know, there isn't a cover

626
00:58:28.119 --> 00:58:32.639
up, and I never said the
president couldn't get access, And you know,

627
00:58:32.679 --> 00:58:37.280
I said that the Secretary of Defense
wouldn't typically because they wouldn't have a

628
00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:42.880
need to know in you know,
every compartment, in program in other departments.

629
00:58:45.880 --> 00:58:47.840
So I'm glad. I hope that
we're able to clear it out up

630
00:58:47.880 --> 00:58:54.360
at least sure now we talked earlier, I just posed I think one question

631
00:58:54.480 --> 00:58:59.039
from one of the comments that were
left in a couple of them are pretty

632
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:01.559
harsh of one of them. Yeah, oh maybe I deserve it. No,

633
00:59:01.719 --> 00:59:06.800
here's here's one here. This is
a comment left on that post.

634
00:59:06.880 --> 00:59:12.559
It says two things about this Chris
guy. One either he was never allowed

635
00:59:12.639 --> 00:59:19.000
access to UFO type files or material
evidence, or two, he's lying about

636
00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:22.840
what he knows and is humoring the
Board of UFO data in order to gain

637
00:59:22.920 --> 00:59:29.960
access to what they know and their
files in order to design misinformation or steal

638
00:59:30.039 --> 00:59:36.239
evidence of e T. Well,
it's it's interesting. I mean, I'm

639
00:59:36.239 --> 00:59:38.719
not sure how I can. You
know, what I can say to prove

640
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:45.639
that I'm not some kind of you
know, mole or something. Let me

641
00:59:45.679 --> 00:59:51.360
see here. I don't know what
I can say early. I mean,

642
00:59:51.800 --> 00:59:55.800
you can sort of believe me or
not. The fact is, as I

643
00:59:55.840 --> 01:00:00.519
said, I never saw anything indicating
that there was any kind of UFO program.

644
01:00:00.599 --> 01:00:05.159
I understand very well. While a
lot of people think there must be,

645
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:12.360
I have recommended publicly that there ought
to be. I specifically recommended in

646
01:00:12.360 --> 01:00:20.000
the Huffington Post article that nor had
be tasked and you be put on the

647
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:25.280
hook. They have some tracking data
already that's not being examined from this standpoint.

648
01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:30.559
At the best of my knowledge,
I think somebody, a couple of

649
01:00:30.559 --> 01:00:34.639
people with President's Council Scientific Advisors,
can be clear to get access to all

650
01:00:34.719 --> 01:00:38.159
that data. I don't think anybody
in the government is trying to cross correlate

651
01:00:38.199 --> 01:00:45.320
it with data that goes into civilian
organizations that are that are collecting sightings and

652
01:00:45.719 --> 01:00:52.280
cataloging them. I really wish there
was some sort of government activity. It

653
01:00:52.480 --> 01:00:58.800
is possible, of course, as
the person suggests that I didn't have access,

654
01:00:58.920 --> 01:01:02.679
there is always possible. There's an
old saying in the intel community you

655
01:01:02.679 --> 01:01:06.199
don't know what you don't know.
You never know what you don't know.

656
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:09.480
And sometimes just when you're thinking you're
at the center of the onion, you're

657
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:15.480
the innermost layer of compartmentation, you
find some other little trap door and some

658
01:01:15.559 --> 01:01:22.119
other compartment. But I really don't
if there is any such thing. All

659
01:01:22.159 --> 01:01:30.119
I can say is it's completely outside
that mechanism that the Secretary has for moneting

660
01:01:30.119 --> 01:01:34.559
these things. As far as I
know, the fellow who is responsible for

661
01:01:34.599 --> 01:01:38.880
a special access program security policy was
a direct report to me. I took

662
01:01:38.920 --> 01:01:45.760
my job seriously. I never sign
anything like that or it covered anything like

663
01:01:45.800 --> 01:01:50.800
that, So I think if it
does exist, it's been pulled off into

664
01:01:50.840 --> 01:01:55.079
some separate world. That's possibility.
I can't say that's not a possibility.

665
01:01:55.079 --> 01:02:00.239
That could be, but I'm not
aware of any such thing. Well,

666
01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:06.000
when you were involved with some oversight
for Area fifty one, do you actually

667
01:02:06.079 --> 01:02:10.719
physically visit these places? Yes,
so you were actually there. Yeah,

668
01:02:10.840 --> 01:02:15.719
did you see Bob Lazaar Because I
wouldn't have know what he looked like at

669
01:02:15.719 --> 01:02:21.320
that time either, But you know, it was kind of it's kind of

670
01:02:21.360 --> 01:02:24.039
interesting, and I'm not going to
talk about you know, there's a little

671
01:02:24.039 --> 01:02:29.880
of a slippery slope issue here in
terms of you know, not crossing into

672
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:38.400
inappropriate areas and not causing problems for
former colleagues in terms of generating press requests

673
01:02:38.400 --> 01:02:45.639
that they have to respond to or
something. But yeah, when I was

674
01:02:45.679 --> 01:02:50.960
there, you know, I never
again there was nothing that the people kind

675
01:02:50.960 --> 01:02:54.360
of laughed about about the idea that
there was a there was a hidden UFO

676
01:02:54.440 --> 01:03:00.800
facility or something. Yeah, Groom
Lake. I think that's the area of

677
01:03:00.840 --> 01:03:06.360
that where there's supposed to be these
according to Bob Blazar in the side of

678
01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.800
the mountain, these doors open up
in this I forget, but you know,

679
01:03:09.440 --> 01:03:14.639
you know, maybe maybe when Secretary, if Secretary Clinton becomes president,

680
01:03:15.519 --> 01:03:20.119
maybe John Podesta will take Bob Blazaar
and a group of pressed people on a

681
01:03:20.119 --> 01:03:22.920
plane out there and say, okay, Bob, show us the doors and

682
01:03:22.920 --> 01:03:27.119
and you know, maybe they'll just, you know, get some camera crews

683
01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:29.960
and a film crew and say,
okay, Bob, you know, show

684
01:03:30.039 --> 01:03:32.480
us the beef, and let's let's
get a vehicle and drive down there.

685
01:03:34.920 --> 01:03:38.079
I don't know. I mean,
you know, who knows. But let

686
01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:42.199
me kind of a little bit more. Actually, if I if I may,

687
01:03:42.480 --> 01:03:46.079
in terms of this issue of you
know, a cover up, if

688
01:03:46.079 --> 01:03:52.440
there were such a thing, maybe
maybe it would be for good reason.

689
01:03:52.519 --> 01:03:58.280
I mean, the people that I
worked with, they're not sinister people.

690
01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:04.159
They're they're very patriotic, hardworking Americans. I'm sure many people on this podcast

691
01:04:04.199 --> 01:04:15.920
have friends and family in the military. They're really exceptionally patriotic, hardworking.

692
01:04:15.119 --> 01:04:19.599
I know. I worked with the
current Director of National Intelligence, Jim Clapper,

693
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:25.280
really good man. I worked with
the current CIA director, John Brennan,

694
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:30.719
used to attend regular meetings with him. These are good people. These

695
01:04:30.760 --> 01:04:35.119
are people. If if somehow,
and I very much doubt this, there

696
01:04:35.199 --> 01:04:44.320
was some program they knew about and
it was being kept under wraps. I

697
01:04:44.360 --> 01:04:46.719
could only imagine that, you know, would probably be for good reason,

698
01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:50.280
and I could imagine why that would
be. Imagine, you know, let's

699
01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:56.760
entertain this scenario, which I am
skeptical of, but just entertain it for

700
01:04:56.760 --> 01:05:02.639
a moment. Imagine your you or
the president, and somebody comes to you

701
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:11.760
in some secret briefing and says,
mister President, we have this remnants from

702
01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:16.280
this space alien spaceship that we captured, and we don't know where these people

703
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:21.079
are from or this maybe it's you
know, autonomously controlled or something. But

704
01:05:21.519 --> 01:05:26.400
we have this technology, but we
don't know who's behind it, or why

705
01:05:26.440 --> 01:05:30.159
they're here, what their agenda is, and we're not able to provide any

706
01:05:30.159 --> 01:05:34.960
reassurance that if they had bad intentions, we could stop them. Now,

707
01:05:35.199 --> 01:05:41.239
what kind of responsible person would go
public with that? When you think about

708
01:05:41.239 --> 01:05:45.360
that, all the kids, all
the the you know, the public,

709
01:05:45.519 --> 01:05:50.360
the elderly people. People have enough
problems. If you're the person who's responsible

710
01:05:50.400 --> 01:05:57.679
for the safety of three hundred and
fifty million Americans, would you really want

711
01:05:57.719 --> 01:06:00.960
to come out with some half baked
thing and say I dropped his hand grenade

712
01:06:01.039 --> 01:06:05.760
under the dining room table of every
family in America and say, oh,

713
01:06:05.840 --> 01:06:09.880
yeah, we can't protect we don't
know what's going on, and we can't

714
01:06:09.920 --> 01:06:13.480
really protect you and we don't know
what they're doing. But oh yeah,

715
01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:15.400
by the way, there's some alien
race visiting the planet. Have a nice

716
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:19.719
day. Really, really, come
on, think about it. That's crazy.

717
01:06:19.920 --> 01:06:25.320
Who would do that. I think
what you just said there is probably

718
01:06:25.840 --> 01:06:30.800
very close to the truth. That's
my opinion. I think that's possible.

719
01:06:30.880 --> 01:06:34.000
I mean, I don't know.
I say I never the people that I

720
01:06:34.079 --> 01:06:38.639
knew at high levels. I mean, I see, you know, Clinton's

721
01:06:38.639 --> 01:06:41.679
been asked about this, Bill Clinton
and President Obama and stuff. They seem

722
01:06:41.719 --> 01:06:45.679
to laugh it off and shrug it
off. And I knew worked very closely

723
01:06:45.880 --> 01:06:50.760
with the former Secretary of Defense,
and I don't for a minute believe that

724
01:06:51.599 --> 01:06:58.320
he knew about something like this or
was involved in it. But you can't

725
01:06:58.400 --> 01:07:00.480
rule it out, of course.
I mean it is there is a bit

726
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:06.280
of cognitive dissonance you get when you
look at these Freedom of Information Act requests.

727
01:07:06.280 --> 01:07:11.320
For example, when you see the
Air Force guys scrambling on the one

728
01:07:11.360 --> 01:07:15.360
hand, and these sort of incursions
and reports and the Belgian incident and the

729
01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:21.519
center and how could we not be, you know, getting on this so

730
01:07:24.360 --> 01:07:28.440
you know, anything is possible,
I suppose. But again, if that

731
01:07:28.639 --> 01:07:32.079
were the case, and if somebody
were to come out with that sort of

732
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:38.639
a half baked revelation, think about
the firestorm and it would result, and

733
01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:44.599
for what possible productive purpose? I
mean, the press, the Congress,

734
01:07:44.639 --> 01:07:48.719
our allies, everybody. It would
just be it would just be an absolute

735
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:55.599
firestorm, and for what and what
would it accomplish? Also, there'd be

736
01:07:55.639 --> 01:07:59.039
so many things I think. I'm
not saying that that's what's going on.

737
01:07:59.159 --> 01:08:03.679
I'm not saying I have no reason
whatsoever to believe that is true. I'm

738
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:11.440
saying for those people who consider that
scenario, I think. I guess part

739
01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:14.199
of the reason I'm saying this is, like John Podesta said publicly, the

740
01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:18.439
American people can handle the truth.
My question would be, if you don't

741
01:08:18.479 --> 01:08:23.199
know what the truth is, how
do you know that they can handle it?

742
01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:29.520
You know, what if they're what
if they're flesh eating or ragnins or

743
01:08:29.560 --> 01:08:33.359
something. I meant, doesn't that
make sense to me? Yeah? Yeah,

744
01:08:33.720 --> 01:08:36.640
we just had someone try to call
in, So I'm going to take

745
01:08:36.640 --> 01:08:42.079
the call right now. Caller,
you are alive. Your first name?

746
01:08:42.119 --> 01:08:46.520
Please? Where are you calling from? Lou Rancho cucamong in California. Hi

747
01:08:46.560 --> 01:08:50.520
there, Lou, Do you have
a question for our guest Chris Mellon tonight?

748
01:08:51.520 --> 01:08:55.680
I do, and I apologize.
I tun didn't late, and I

749
01:08:55.760 --> 01:08:59.640
too didn't kind of in the middle
of the conversation you were just having,

750
01:09:00.279 --> 01:09:02.520
and I wanted to call in to
clarify at least and mentally for me,

751
01:09:04.399 --> 01:09:11.199
my understanding is technically the president has
a right to know all of the information.

752
01:09:12.199 --> 01:09:15.640
There might be rogue employees who withhold
information. But is that your guests

753
01:09:15.800 --> 01:09:23.560
understanding? Is that what the point
for me? Yes? Absolutely, Yeah,

754
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:27.079
that's all I understand it. But
there are people out there who say

755
01:09:28.199 --> 01:09:31.319
there are black programs and the president
doesn't have a right to know what's going

756
01:09:31.359 --> 01:09:34.880
on, and that just doesn't make
sense to me. I mean again,

757
01:09:35.000 --> 01:09:40.399
is that the point you're making or
one of the answerary points you're making.

758
01:09:41.680 --> 01:09:44.359
Yeah, let me try to be
really clear about it. You know,

759
01:09:44.760 --> 01:09:48.880
I apologize. I gather you got
in a little bit late, but I

760
01:09:48.960 --> 01:09:55.800
mentioned earlier. There's a d D
instruction fifty two zero five point one point

761
01:09:55.800 --> 01:10:00.399
one, which you can find on
the web. It outlines the process US

762
01:10:00.840 --> 01:10:08.319
by which the Defense Department provides oversight
of all special access programs, at least

763
01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:13.960
in theory, and how that is
done, and they're all reported to Congress,

764
01:10:14.720 --> 01:10:17.600
and there are multiple echelons of reviews. So the Air Force reviews all

765
01:10:17.640 --> 01:10:20.680
of its special access programs and then
they go to this committee, and there's

766
01:10:20.720 --> 01:10:26.039
another level of review with a number
of people on this committee looking at it

767
01:10:26.079 --> 01:10:30.800
from a legal standpoint, an acquisition
standpoint, a budgetary standpoint, a congressional

768
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:38.239
notification standpoint. So of course we
have programs and activities that we can't put

769
01:10:38.239 --> 01:10:43.159
in the public domain because it would
be shared with our adversaries at the same

770
01:10:43.199 --> 01:10:45.600
time we shared them with the public. If there was some way to share

771
01:10:45.640 --> 01:10:49.760
it just with the American people and
ensure it didn't go beyond that, you

772
01:10:49.840 --> 01:10:53.439
know that that would probably be what
we should be doing. But there's no

773
01:10:53.520 --> 01:10:58.199
way to do that. So we
have this balance of trying to be able

774
01:10:58.239 --> 01:11:00.600
to do things and still provide over
site and accountability. And I think it's

775
01:11:00.600 --> 01:11:04.600
a reasonable balance and I think it
works reasonably well. See, Okay,

776
01:11:04.640 --> 01:11:10.680
I just again, I've I've had
discussions and not necessarily pleasant discussions from the

777
01:11:10.720 --> 01:11:15.359
other side somehow saying that there are
programs up there that president does not have

778
01:11:15.439 --> 01:11:17.960
a need to know about. I
just I can't imagine setting up a government

779
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:23.079
that way. Again, there could
be rogue employees who share it not to

780
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:28.199
reveal information, but that's that's not
legal. That's a good point. And

781
01:11:28.279 --> 01:11:31.760
so that's what the Iran contra affair
was about, right, exactly exactly.

782
01:11:32.319 --> 01:11:40.840
You had you had people doing things
without the knowledge of the President, allegedly

783
01:11:41.159 --> 01:11:45.680
or Congress. So there was not
a single elected official in the United States

784
01:11:45.720 --> 01:11:51.479
government who knew that these people were
launching an independent foreign policy initiative that was

785
01:11:51.600 --> 01:11:58.560
contra present stated policy. Right.
Conductor was the admiral who admitted that it

786
01:11:58.600 --> 01:12:01.520
was. I can't remember his name, was it, Yeah, he specifically

787
01:12:01.560 --> 01:12:05.880
admitted to that. Right, So
that kind of thing can happen, And

788
01:12:05.920 --> 01:12:10.199
that's when those kinds of things do
happen. Of course, they do undermine

789
01:12:10.239 --> 01:12:13.960
people's trust and faith in the government, and they often result in even more

790
01:12:14.000 --> 01:12:21.279
intrusive oversight. The intelligence committees established
in the Lake of revelations about the CIA

791
01:12:21.439 --> 01:12:27.239
conducting LSD experiments on citizens and all
this kind of thing, and when that

792
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:30.520
finally got into papers that led to
such an outcry. You had these hearings

793
01:12:30.560 --> 01:12:34.680
on Capitol Hill, and they decided
we need to have a Select Committee on

794
01:12:34.760 --> 01:12:42.279
Intelligence in ease House of Congress to
you know, review the intelligence community annually

795
01:12:42.359 --> 01:12:45.119
their budgets, their programs, their
activities, et cetera. So there actually

796
01:12:45.159 --> 01:12:49.439
is considerable oversight. And I am
not the Church Committee. That's the Church

797
01:12:49.439 --> 01:12:55.439
Committee front absolutely right. Our Church
Committee was one of the committee recommendations.

798
01:12:55.439 --> 01:12:59.920
Correct, And I I thank you
for repeating your points. I just like

799
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:02.439
I said, I too, didn't
Lane. We're on the exact same page

800
01:13:02.880 --> 01:13:06.000
and it was just good to hear. So thank you for your times.

801
01:13:06.159 --> 01:13:11.920
Hey, Lou, I appreciate the
call. Thanks all right, Chris,

802
01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:15.479
I want to get to a couple
of messages that came up on the message

803
01:13:15.520 --> 01:13:17.840
board as we're going on. First
of all, I did promise Lee that

804
01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:23.840
I would ask this he wonders what
actual need to know level that you were

805
01:13:23.880 --> 01:13:30.279
given and whether or not you wondered
if there were those above you that actually

806
01:13:30.359 --> 01:13:38.199
knew more. All right, it's
a logger. But so if you are

807
01:13:38.520 --> 01:13:44.079
a member of the Special Access Program
Oversight Committee, you are what they call

808
01:13:44.199 --> 01:13:49.880
a super user. That means you
cleared for all special access programs. Okay,

809
01:13:50.319 --> 01:13:54.399
that was a quick, easy answer. Good. Now. One came

810
01:13:54.479 --> 01:13:58.039
up a couple of times. Some
one person in particular wanted to know if

811
01:13:58.079 --> 01:14:01.479
you if you even you know what
this is. I think I've heard of

812
01:14:01.479 --> 01:14:08.439
it, the bole Ender memo.
I believe I'm familiar with that. Yes,

813
01:14:09.439 --> 01:14:13.079
so what's your view on that?
Well, if I understand this correctly,

814
01:14:14.560 --> 01:14:19.600
this is a memorandum in which a
general indicates that he saw some materials.

815
01:14:20.239 --> 01:14:26.359
Materials that were sent back to right
Patterson Air Force Base were not the

816
01:14:26.359 --> 01:14:30.119
weather balloon materials that were shown at
the press conference. If I've got that

817
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:33.000
right, it was sort of he
was saying there was sort of a bait

818
01:14:33.039 --> 01:14:39.399
and switch. There was some other
stuff sent back to Right pat If I

819
01:14:39.439 --> 01:14:46.279
recalled his correctly, and my sense
of that was, it's interesting. I

820
01:14:46.279 --> 01:14:53.439
believe it's authentic, but I'm not
sure what conclusion to draw because that would

821
01:14:53.479 --> 01:15:00.800
appear to be consistent with two hypotheses. The Air Force, which claims they

822
01:15:00.840 --> 01:15:04.279
you know, came clean in the
nineties on this and revealed this Project Mogul,

823
01:15:05.479 --> 01:15:13.359
which was a high altitude experiment trying
to detect nuclear weapons explosions in the

824
01:15:13.479 --> 01:15:18.960
in the former Soviet Union, which
was a highly classified program, and it's

825
01:15:19.000 --> 01:15:23.479
possible that they may have he might
have not not have been cleared for that,

826
01:15:24.319 --> 01:15:28.560
and they you know, rolled out
this this balloon or whatever for the

827
01:15:28.560 --> 01:15:33.600
public to cover it up, and
then they took the components from the classified

828
01:15:33.680 --> 01:15:40.359
program and sent them back to write
pat And so it's conceivable that that's what

829
01:15:40.439 --> 01:15:44.520
he saw, or you know,
alternatively, maybe it was something else.

830
01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:53.119
Maybe maybe there was some debris from
uh, you know, erect uh,

831
01:15:53.680 --> 01:15:58.760
you know, a crash of some
kind. So to me, it's it's

832
01:15:58.800 --> 01:16:03.880
it's interesting, but I'm not sure
that it is dispositive of anything, right,

833
01:16:04.119 --> 01:16:11.800
Okay, So let's see the question
another question that came up there.

834
01:16:12.880 --> 01:16:19.399
Did you have any evidence of any
sort of government type organization that works externally

835
01:16:20.039 --> 01:16:28.960
to the main government. M I
guess that would be like a private sector

836
01:16:29.119 --> 01:16:35.840
oversight. Well, you know,
there's the government relies to a huge degree

837
01:16:35.840 --> 01:16:42.600
on contractors, and I mean to
a degree that I think the public generally

838
01:16:42.600 --> 01:16:48.319
doesn't appreciate. And oftentimes that's for
the better because the contractors are often more

839
01:16:48.319 --> 01:16:55.199
efficient than having government employees performing those
same functions. So I'm not saying it's

840
01:16:55.319 --> 01:17:00.960
that's necessarily a bad thing, but
there is a huge contractor base, and

841
01:17:01.039 --> 01:17:06.720
obviously, you know a huge percentage
of the government budget goes into into the

842
01:17:06.760 --> 01:17:15.119
private sector and so forth. If
now you know, when you have d

843
01:17:15.359 --> 01:17:20.479
D programs, for example, like
Boeing, you know, I've visited their

844
01:17:20.520 --> 01:17:30.560
plant and assembly line where next generation
aircraft were being made and the d O

845
01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:34.279
D. Anytime you have a big
acquisition program of any kind, there is

846
01:17:34.479 --> 01:17:42.600
a mountain of an excessive volume I
would say, of oversight regulation, acquisition

847
01:17:42.760 --> 01:17:50.520
milestones, et cetera. There's encyclopedias
literally of acquisition regulations, and so it

848
01:17:50.560 --> 01:18:00.960
would be wouldn't be easy to hide
something of a really spectacular nature in that

849
01:18:00.079 --> 01:18:15.159
domain and keep it out outside of
government oversight. But you know they're there.

850
01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:19.560
In theory, you could could have
something, I suppose. I mean,

851
01:18:19.560 --> 01:18:26.199
the Iran contract Fair was interesting because
there's an example of where people were

852
01:18:26.479 --> 01:18:30.399
running an operation completely off the books
and they were making money. They were

853
01:18:30.399 --> 01:18:39.079
engaging in trades, they were exchanging
you know, weapons, anti tank missiles,

854
01:18:39.119 --> 01:18:44.159
and taking money and using that to
fund the covered Action program in Nicaragua,

855
01:18:44.159 --> 01:18:46.520
to fund the contrast, and there
was an example of something with rogue

856
01:18:46.560 --> 01:18:54.439
employees running a black operation off the
books, completely outside of any of these

857
01:18:54.760 --> 01:19:00.840
oversight mechanisms I've been talking about.
So it's not impossible it's happened, but

858
01:19:01.159 --> 01:19:05.239
I wouldn't be surprised if it's happened. More than that myself it could be.

859
01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:14.319
It was so outrageous when it happened, and you know, the issue

860
01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:17.039
really was at a point like that, You know, people do have a

861
01:19:17.079 --> 01:19:20.079
reason to start asking, you know, what kind of a democracy are we

862
01:19:20.159 --> 01:19:28.000
really If people who are not beholden
to any elected official can run completely independent

863
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:32.640
foreign policy and COVID actions. I
mean that that was crazy right here.

864
01:19:32.920 --> 01:19:38.119
Here's another question that came in,
and that is what do you think about

865
01:19:38.159 --> 01:19:43.079
blink one two? Tom Blong's claims
when it comes to the government and UFO,

866
01:19:43.279 --> 01:19:46.239
such as this is a direct quote, I have ten people that I'm

867
01:19:46.279 --> 01:19:53.359
working with that are at the highest
levels of the Department of Defense and NASA

868
01:19:53.880 --> 01:19:58.640
and the military. And this is
in regards to the UFO maybe disclosure or

869
01:19:58.640 --> 01:20:03.199
something he's claiming. Well, yeah, I think he's a he's a creative

870
01:20:03.239 --> 01:20:11.199
genius. For one thing, I've
enjoyed his his novel UH and UH.

871
01:20:11.399 --> 01:20:15.439
I think Blink went he too is
UH was a great band in their day.

872
01:20:17.119 --> 01:20:21.079
And if he's got some some advisors
working with him, I think that's

873
01:20:21.119 --> 01:20:26.600
great. I think they could probably
help him to make what he's doing,

874
01:20:28.319 --> 01:20:33.399
and I think that's his intent,
uh, to make it appropriately. I

875
01:20:33.439 --> 01:20:41.119
think he wants to be authentic and
also cast the military, our military people

876
01:20:41.119 --> 01:20:44.439
in the positive life they deserved to
be cast in. So I think he

877
01:20:44.520 --> 01:20:47.960
probably wants to, you know,
avail himself with some real expertise as he

878
01:20:48.039 --> 01:20:53.079
goes along. I think that's great. Okay, Yeah, we'll see where

879
01:20:53.079 --> 01:20:56.239
that leads to. We have a
caller, caller, what's your first name?

880
01:20:56.239 --> 01:21:02.359
And where are you calling from?
Hello? Can you hear me?

881
01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:08.079
Now? Okay, caller. If
you can hear me and I can't hear

882
01:21:08.119 --> 01:21:11.399
you, you're going to have to
do a Skype test call and check to

883
01:21:11.399 --> 01:21:15.680
see if your microphone's not working,
because I'm not hearing anything. So I'm

884
01:21:15.680 --> 01:21:17.119
going to hang up on you.
Try your Skype test call, see if

885
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:26.560
you can figure that out or call
back perhaps. Okay, So you know,

886
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:30.520
he he is claiming that he is
getting somewhere and you know that something

887
01:21:30.560 --> 01:21:38.159
may come out, so that will
be interesting whatever happens through that. Another

888
01:21:39.039 --> 01:21:45.600
going back to the comments that were
left on the blog on the on the

889
01:21:45.600 --> 01:21:49.920
interview that you did in the Huffington
Post. Another one is Hillary Clinton knows

890
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:55.720
the truth about UAP. She was
involved for three years in the Rockefeller initiative.

891
01:21:56.119 --> 01:21:58.840
She and Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Governor Richardson, and a couple

892
01:21:58.880 --> 01:22:03.720
of others worked with Lauren Rockefeller to
tell the people the truth. Something happened

893
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:09.399
to stop the plan. John Podesta
wants the truth out now. I do

894
01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:12.880
want John Podesta's name came up a
lot of times tonight, But first of

895
01:22:12.920 --> 01:22:15.800
all in that comment and then after
that, what do you think about John

896
01:22:15.840 --> 01:22:26.920
Podesta and his claims are well his
initiative? Yeah, I I don't know

897
01:22:27.239 --> 01:22:30.399
John Podesta personally, never met the
man. My impression of him from Afar

898
01:22:30.760 --> 01:22:39.800
is that he has long been somebody
who believed in transparency in government and letting

899
01:22:39.840 --> 01:22:44.239
the sunlight in, letting the sunshine
in, and I applaud him for that.

900
01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:46.239
I think, I think that's true, and I think we're at a

901
01:22:46.239 --> 01:22:49.800
point where, you know, as
I mentioned, we're at a real low

902
01:22:49.840 --> 01:22:56.399
point in terms of people's trust of
their government, and the country's getting dangerously

903
01:22:56.439 --> 01:23:00.920
polarized, and that weakens us and
divides us, and so I applaud you

904
01:23:00.920 --> 01:23:09.920
know, his his general philosophical sentiments. My concern is, frankly, that

905
01:23:11.079 --> 01:23:17.000
this is going to be a setback
for people who want to really understand the

906
01:23:17.079 --> 01:23:23.319
UFO phenomenon and what lies behind it, because my concern is based on my

907
01:23:23.439 --> 01:23:29.359
experience, that they'll find there is
no uh, that Bob Bazaar was not

908
01:23:29.600 --> 01:23:38.359
correct, that there is no UFO
cover up in all probability, and so

909
01:23:38.520 --> 01:23:42.760
then some press release to that effect
will be issued and people will laugh it

910
01:23:42.840 --> 01:23:48.399
off, and people who are disdainful
of this whole subject will as I see,

911
01:23:48.399 --> 01:23:51.920
I told you so, and uh, then we'll get you know,

912
01:23:51.960 --> 01:23:58.399
it'll go nowhere, and the whole
topic will have less credibility and interest.

913
01:23:58.760 --> 01:24:04.479
So I wish that people or formulating
the request a little differently to the candidate

914
01:24:04.680 --> 01:24:10.439
and to her advisor, in the
form of not, you know, just

915
01:24:10.640 --> 01:24:18.039
releasing the alleged cover up documents,
but making a commitment to trying to get

916
01:24:18.079 --> 01:24:21.840
to the bottom of the issue if
that requires, you know, if they

917
01:24:21.840 --> 01:24:25.840
get in and find out there's something
and they release it, Okay, but

918
01:24:26.479 --> 01:24:34.560
if not, then that would require
assigning some responsibility and some resources to undertake

919
01:24:34.600 --> 01:24:40.199
some research, not a lot at
all. It can be done very easily

920
01:24:40.199 --> 01:24:45.800
and simply, but I think that
would would help to ensure that this doesn't

921
01:24:45.840 --> 01:24:47.760
become sort of a dead end or
a big setback for people that are interested

922
01:24:47.760 --> 01:24:51.359
in this topic. Okay. We
had a couple of questions come in,

923
01:24:51.960 --> 01:24:58.239
and this one here. Do you
know of any contingency plans by the government

924
01:24:58.840 --> 01:25:04.279
in the event that an extraterrestrials do
make themselves aware to us in a mass

925
01:25:04.279 --> 01:25:09.560
scale, if they were so to
speak to land on the White House lawn?

926
01:25:09.800 --> 01:25:15.359
Are there any I think I've actually
seen a documentary where they said there

927
01:25:15.399 --> 01:25:18.079
actually is something in place. Are
you aware of that. I'm not aware

928
01:25:18.119 --> 01:25:24.359
of anything like that. That's news
to me. I've seen some there's some

929
01:25:25.319 --> 01:25:31.279
think pank sort of groups that I
gather have examined the issue to some extent,

930
01:25:31.399 --> 01:25:34.640
and some of the people associated with
SETTI, for example, have thought

931
01:25:34.680 --> 01:25:40.520
about how would you break that news
to the public and what impact might it

932
01:25:40.640 --> 01:25:43.760
have and that sort of thing.
But now I'm not aware of anything like

933
01:25:43.800 --> 01:25:45.800
that. You know, I would
think you know, I watched the movie

934
01:25:45.840 --> 01:25:50.640
Independence Day. A few people have
out there. I would think that it

935
01:25:50.720 --> 01:25:56.000
would not be a bad idea,
because you know, we are floating in

936
01:25:56.079 --> 01:26:02.079
space. Anything can happen for us
to have like contingency plan if if you

937
01:26:02.079 --> 01:26:08.279
know, kind of like a worldwide
contingency plan, if if we ever had

938
01:26:08.319 --> 01:26:11.520
to defend ourselves in any type of
way or something. It just seems like

939
01:26:11.560 --> 01:26:15.960
there would be some type of program. I mean, it's kind of like

940
01:26:16.840 --> 01:26:20.479
someone not ever prepared for their house
catching on fire, you know. I

941
01:26:20.560 --> 01:26:25.039
mean, it's just kind of like
something that could happen. You know,

942
01:26:25.119 --> 01:26:30.319
I think to probably the most government
officials that seem so remote that, you

943
01:26:30.319 --> 01:26:32.960
know, in terms of their list
of priorities, it wouldn't make the cut.

944
01:26:34.159 --> 01:26:40.800
But it's interesting that that Reagan and
in one of his un speeches and

945
01:26:40.840 --> 01:26:44.800
others have talked about, you know, the speculated a little bit on this

946
01:26:44.880 --> 01:26:48.399
sort of unifying impact that might have
if we faced if we did face a

947
01:26:48.399 --> 01:26:58.520
common thread. I suppose, you
know, I would there's so much increasing

948
01:26:59.359 --> 01:27:03.840
danger in stability in the world today
that you know, looking for things that

949
01:27:03.960 --> 01:27:10.720
help to to mitigate some of those
differences and bring people together is a good

950
01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:17.000
direction to be looking as a general
matter, but I don't know that in

951
01:27:17.039 --> 01:27:21.359
the absence. Again, for something
like that to happen, I think you'd

952
01:27:21.399 --> 01:27:30.159
have to have some compelling evidence and
information if we had it, that could

953
01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:35.520
have that could change everything, that
could have a really profound impact. And

954
01:27:35.800 --> 01:27:41.359
we're trying to see if that's possible. That's why I joined this organization,

955
01:27:41.520 --> 01:27:47.720
and you know, we're hoping to
really move the ball down the field.

956
01:27:48.239 --> 01:27:55.560
And science has evolved a great deal
since Project Blue Book and so forth.

957
01:27:55.600 --> 01:28:00.600
We have a lot of sophisticated,
precise instrumentation. They can be brought to

958
01:28:00.640 --> 01:28:06.520
bear if there are enough people interested
in doing it right. Lis Spiegel posted

959
01:28:06.560 --> 01:28:14.960
another question up there, who's ultimately
responsible to the citizens of Earth regarding UFOs?

960
01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:19.479
Too many people put all the responsibility
of UFO information on the shoulders of

961
01:28:19.520 --> 01:28:26.359
the American government. Who should speak
for planet Earth in your opinion? Well,

962
01:28:27.479 --> 01:28:30.920
I you know, nobody can speak
for planet Earth. You know,

963
01:28:30.960 --> 01:28:34.000
we're not there yet, and we
have the United Nations, and they don't

964
01:28:34.000 --> 01:28:41.239
really speak for They have very little
authority, very little cloud. They don't

965
01:28:41.239 --> 01:28:45.279
really you know, we're still tribal
and balkanized to a large degree. And

966
01:28:45.960 --> 01:28:49.600
you know, this is one of
the troubling things when you see the trends

967
01:28:50.439 --> 01:28:58.119
with what is going on today with
Russia and with China and North Korea and

968
01:28:58.159 --> 01:29:01.279
the Middle East, the world that
we thought we were moving into after the

969
01:29:01.399 --> 01:29:09.279
former Soviet Union fell apart and the
wall came down and there was a honeymoon

970
01:29:09.319 --> 01:29:12.920
pre everyone thought it's all going to
be liberal democracies like us around the world.

971
01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:14.720
We're all going to get along.
Things are going to be great,

972
01:29:15.520 --> 01:29:19.600
very optimistic time, and things are
going in a very decidedly different direction right

973
01:29:19.640 --> 01:29:29.800
now. Yeah, that's very concerning. And the propensity potential for military incidents

974
01:29:29.880 --> 01:29:35.159
is growing as both of these dictatorships
in China and Russian are trying to foment

975
01:29:36.319 --> 01:29:44.239
nationalistic impulses to strengthen their control and
power. And you know, it's a

976
01:29:44.319 --> 01:29:49.000
very concerning situation. After spending some
time there, I don't want to get

977
01:29:49.000 --> 01:29:54.760
into politics too much, but after
spending you know, almost just shy of

978
01:29:54.800 --> 01:29:59.720
a whole month in Russia and trying
to talk to a few people over there,

979
01:30:00.439 --> 01:30:05.399
they think kind of the same thing
about us. Uh, you know,

980
01:30:05.479 --> 01:30:10.359
from what I can gather, you
know, we feel like first of

981
01:30:10.359 --> 01:30:17.760
all, they think that we're full
of bs and and they think that Putin

982
01:30:17.960 --> 01:30:23.159
is going to straighten us out on
you know, by telling the truth.

983
01:30:23.680 --> 01:30:26.600
Again, I don't want to get
into politics too much, but it was

984
01:30:26.720 --> 01:30:35.319
interesting to hear those comments from people. Okay, so I'm glad you're not

985
01:30:35.560 --> 01:30:45.880
adding to that. That's much more
in my in my sweet spot than in

986
01:30:46.079 --> 01:30:53.119
UFOs probably dur my activities, but
I won't go there. Okay. Now.

987
01:30:53.199 --> 01:30:57.239
A question that came in also from
one of the listeners during the week

988
01:30:57.359 --> 01:31:01.399
was what do you think about the
rumors and ording to some documentation that Eisenhower

989
01:31:01.479 --> 01:31:08.359
was actually communicating with ETS. I
don't know anything about anything like that.

990
01:31:09.159 --> 01:31:14.359
I really not in a position to
offer any inside I'm afraid yep, yep,

991
01:31:14.439 --> 01:31:17.479
no problem. Again, a lot
of these questions would come in,

992
01:31:17.560 --> 01:31:23.119
and another one came in that said
with regards and I think you may have

993
01:31:23.199 --> 01:31:29.319
addressed this, at least partially with
regards to historical UFO citing reports over a

994
01:31:29.359 --> 01:31:35.079
military basis nuclear weapon sites. Do
you think there are any agreements in place

995
01:31:35.399 --> 01:31:42.359
to alert counterparts and opposing countries of
these events occurring. I doubt it.

996
01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:45.399
I'm not aware of that. And
I and I strongly doubt it that we

997
01:31:45.439 --> 01:31:53.880
would seek to do that because of
the nature of nuclear warheads. Basically,

998
01:31:53.960 --> 01:31:56.800
I mean, you know there's a
there's a there's a hotline, and you

999
01:31:56.800 --> 01:32:00.640
know there are a few there are
mechanisms through our MSIs and so forth to

1000
01:32:00.680 --> 01:32:12.159
try to avert misunderstandings in general should
they begin to develop. But nothing specifically

1001
01:32:12.199 --> 01:32:15.479
related to dufos or anything like that. Yeah, okay, I wanted to

1002
01:32:15.520 --> 01:32:18.680
just make sure because at the time
is just flying here. I knew I

1003
01:32:18.800 --> 01:32:23.479
kind of thought it would. Another
one came in, says Grant Cameron.

1004
01:32:23.680 --> 01:32:27.920
Used to believe, as you do, Chris, that it is unlikely that

1005
01:32:27.920 --> 01:32:33.319
Obama knows anything about our government's secret
UFO programs. Cameron has however, changed

1006
01:32:33.319 --> 01:32:39.680
his beliefs based on a number of
reasons, including, but not only,

1007
01:32:39.720 --> 01:32:44.079
Ben Hansen's analysis. I'm not even
sure if you're aware of this of Obama's

1008
01:32:44.119 --> 01:32:48.159
interview with Jimmy Kimmel. I don't
know if you know anything about that at

1009
01:32:48.199 --> 01:32:53.680
all. Are you familiar with Grant
Cameron's assessment or anything. I'm really not

1010
01:32:53.960 --> 01:33:00.319
mart Knight. I passed by a
website with a little information about him,

1011
01:33:00.319 --> 01:33:03.479
and i'd like to go back and
learn a bit more, but I'm not

1012
01:33:03.479 --> 01:33:09.000
really in a posistrict comment. Yep, no problem. Here's one I think

1013
01:33:09.039 --> 01:33:12.720
I discussed with you on the phone
briefly when we first talked, And what

1014
01:33:12.840 --> 01:33:17.680
is your opinion on Chase Brandon's claim
of seeing a filebox with roswell evidence.

1015
01:33:20.600 --> 01:33:25.479
I'm not familiar with the claim,
and I don't know what evidence that would

1016
01:33:25.520 --> 01:33:29.600
be a reference to. Well,
here's let me just ask this thing.

1017
01:33:30.039 --> 01:33:38.920
Is it according to his claim?
Is it would the government actually put on

1018
01:33:38.960 --> 01:33:45.439
a filebox roswell evidence? I mean, wouldn't they number it or like have

1019
01:33:45.520 --> 01:33:47.600
a whole bunch of numbers or something
instead. It just sounds kind of odd

1020
01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:51.079
to me. I mean, just
you know, knowing the way bureacracies work,

1021
01:33:51.239 --> 01:33:59.119
that if you had some maybe let's
take a crash slight of not an

1022
01:33:59.159 --> 01:34:06.000
alien say a Russian satellite or advanced
reconnaissance vehicle or something, people wouldn't be

1023
01:34:06.079 --> 01:34:11.520
leaving boxes lying around saying, you
know, evidence from the crash and he

1024
01:34:11.600 --> 01:34:14.560
just left it in the corner.
Generally it would probably be you know,

1025
01:34:14.920 --> 01:34:19.600
pretty well tidied up and accounted for
a squat way. But I'm not familiar

1026
01:34:19.640 --> 01:34:27.000
with that claim. You know,
Lee Spiegel was involved actually at the United

1027
01:34:27.079 --> 01:34:30.920
Nations years ago and back in nineteen
seventy eight. It was kind of a

1028
01:34:30.960 --> 01:34:35.359
milestone for the time, and there's
still information out there about this. It's

1029
01:34:35.399 --> 01:34:42.720
really very interesting and this is just
a comment from him, and he knows

1030
01:34:42.760 --> 01:34:47.920
that the UN definitely doesn't speak for
earthlings. That was going back to when

1031
01:34:47.960 --> 01:34:56.920
you were talking about that. Okay, now let's see we have some comments

1032
01:34:56.920 --> 01:35:00.640
coming in. I'm just trying to
get them. Do you think that there

1033
01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:04.159
is any this is one that came
in. I think you kind of addressed

1034
01:35:04.159 --> 01:35:09.840
this, but yeah, I think
it would be redundant to bring it up

1035
01:35:09.880 --> 01:35:19.520
about a compartmentalized part of the government. But you mentioned the UFO flap and

1036
01:35:19.600 --> 01:35:24.079
Belgium. Are there any other in
a couple of other things? Are there

1037
01:35:24.119 --> 01:35:31.039
any other cases that you think are
really solid as far as not being able

1038
01:35:31.039 --> 01:35:34.760
to explain what they are? You
know, I think there are quite a

1039
01:35:34.760 --> 01:35:44.479
few. The you know, that
one was particularly to me compelling because there

1040
01:35:44.479 --> 01:35:49.119
were so many different witnesses over such
a sustained period of time, ground based

1041
01:35:49.199 --> 01:35:57.479
radar, air based radar, police
and military officers and a you know,

1042
01:35:57.640 --> 01:36:02.960
full military investigation. The Belgian Air
Force general has addressed this on the record,

1043
01:36:03.079 --> 01:36:09.600
made it very clear this was not
a case of mistaken helicopters or balloons

1044
01:36:09.680 --> 01:36:13.520
or something like that. And I
know people that have talked to the Belgian

1045
01:36:13.800 --> 01:36:18.199
I know somebody who was on a
NATO visit and discussed this with them directly,

1046
01:36:18.800 --> 01:36:26.439
and they said the same thing to
him that they've said publicly. And

1047
01:36:27.199 --> 01:36:33.920
so I think that's a really stellar
example of why there's a phenomenon here that

1048
01:36:33.960 --> 01:36:39.680
should be taken seriously. But there
are so many cases. I remember when

1049
01:36:39.720 --> 01:36:43.840
I in college, I did a
research project on this topic for a physics

1050
01:36:43.880 --> 01:36:49.279
professor. Really yeah, and he
consented. He was an open minded individual.

1051
01:36:49.359 --> 01:36:57.039
He consented to let me do an
independent research project on this. And

1052
01:36:57.119 --> 01:37:00.600
at the time I was doing it, there was a lot of UFO activity

1053
01:37:00.640 --> 01:37:05.439
going on in New England and there
were also some very prominent cases going on

1054
01:37:05.520 --> 01:37:13.520
in the papers globally. But some
of the cases in a where when you

1055
01:37:13.640 --> 01:37:18.000
know somebody it you know sometimes makes
it more real or more concrete. So

1056
01:37:18.279 --> 01:37:27.600
there was a local sheriff that people
in our community who went skiing up Sherloaf

1057
01:37:27.680 --> 01:37:33.680
knew and his name was Hensby,
and I've got I started a scrap book

1058
01:37:33.720 --> 01:37:35.399
then, which I still have.
I've got it in front of me.

1059
01:37:36.560 --> 01:37:45.560
And Hensby and his wife were driving, and they came across a couple,

1060
01:37:45.880 --> 01:37:49.960
a group by the side of the
road, and they're coming back from a

1061
01:37:50.000 --> 01:37:54.920
function in the evening. And Hensby
was a tea toler, didn't drink at

1062
01:37:54.920 --> 01:37:58.600
all. And in this article,
which was in the United President of National

1063
01:37:59.479 --> 01:38:01.640
Officer him he says, one of
the guys told me, quote, don't

1064
01:38:01.640 --> 01:38:04.640
go up over the hill. There's
a UFO up there. If you do,

1065
01:38:04.760 --> 01:38:09.079
you're going to witness something you won't
want to see. And then they

1066
01:38:09.079 --> 01:38:11.600
could drive off. Then they drove
off, and I could see they were

1067
01:38:11.680 --> 01:38:15.680
terrified. Well, he continued with
his wife. When they approached the hill,

1068
01:38:16.399 --> 01:38:19.560
the object hovered on top of the
hill and lit up the whole hill.

1069
01:38:19.680 --> 01:38:25.319
So we sat there and watched it. I saw a bright light.

1070
01:38:25.439 --> 01:38:29.119
It was probably about a telephone pole
high, and it was stationery in space.

1071
01:38:30.119 --> 01:38:32.880
He waited a few moments, tried
to drive over the hill. It

1072
01:38:33.000 --> 01:38:36.560
advanced, quote, it advanced toward
us, then stopped in mid air.

1073
01:38:38.279 --> 01:38:42.880
I then backed up thirty to forty
yards and then stopped three times, he

1074
01:38:43.000 --> 01:38:47.680
tried to pass. Every time the
object came up again. It was bright

1075
01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:51.039
enough I couldn't see in front of
me. We had the feeling it didn't

1076
01:38:51.079 --> 01:38:54.920
want us to go up there,
and they turned around a reverse course.

1077
01:38:55.840 --> 01:39:00.239
And you know that's just a you
know, small local exam. But when

1078
01:39:00.279 --> 01:39:05.800
those kind of things happen to people
that you've met or you know, or

1079
01:39:06.119 --> 01:39:11.760
for example, a Navy friend of
mine who told me about a naval instructor

1080
01:39:11.840 --> 01:39:15.000
who he was present on the runway
when this guy landed and a UFO had

1081
01:39:15.079 --> 01:39:21.760
just flown completely around his jet.
Wow. And so there are these cases

1082
01:39:21.800 --> 01:39:28.119
that are ones that are very useful
for trying to establish, you know,

1083
01:39:28.199 --> 01:39:32.760
something that's well documented with multiple sources
of information. But sometimes the ones that

1084
01:39:33.920 --> 01:39:36.640
you know that I kind of feel
the most personally, or were the ones

1085
01:39:38.039 --> 01:39:40.600
that are personal, you know,
where you know the person individually. You

1086
01:39:40.720 --> 01:39:44.720
just you know that guy and you
know he would not lie. You just

1087
01:39:45.000 --> 01:39:48.239
know in your heart that guy is
telling the truth of what happened to him

1088
01:39:48.239 --> 01:39:53.239
and what he perceived. What it
was another question, but you know he's

1089
01:39:53.239 --> 01:39:57.600
telling honestly what happened. Yeah,
I do a great makes totally the difference

1090
01:39:58.199 --> 01:40:01.039
when you know someone personally. We
do have a caller waiting. Caller,

1091
01:40:01.079 --> 01:40:04.720
your first name and where are you
calling from? Well, thanks for your

1092
01:40:04.760 --> 01:40:09.960
indulgence. It's Lou from Rancho Kukamoga
again. Oh you're back'd like to throw

1093
01:40:10.039 --> 01:40:13.800
up. I'd like to throw out
an observation that is not my own.

1094
01:40:13.880 --> 01:40:16.800
I can't take credit for it or
blame, but it regards Chase Brand and

1095
01:40:16.840 --> 01:40:25.199
talking about the box, and the
commentator said that the box is a euphemism

1096
01:40:25.279 --> 01:40:28.720
and intelligence speak, that there really
wasn't a box. He was just trying

1097
01:40:28.760 --> 01:40:31.720
to say that he saw evidence wherever. I just thought it was an interesting

1098
01:40:32.399 --> 01:40:38.000
comment. I certainly can't vouch for
it, so I throw that out for

1099
01:40:38.079 --> 01:40:43.239
your for your consideration. Well thank
you what I'm saying, yeah, okay

1100
01:40:43.319 --> 01:40:45.880
again and joining the show by the
way, all right, I'll talk to

1101
01:40:45.880 --> 01:40:48.560
you later. All right, thanks
for your call. Okay, all right,

1102
01:40:48.680 --> 01:40:55.760
so we only have we only have
I think three minutes left, not

1103
01:40:55.880 --> 01:41:00.720
too much, so keep that in
mind, and I think that's probably going

1104
01:41:00.800 --> 01:41:03.600
to do it for calls. Uh. And I do appreciate the people who

1105
01:41:03.640 --> 01:41:11.720
have who have called in and what
uh what is your I think we sort

1106
01:41:11.760 --> 01:41:15.600
of address this, Chris, But
another message up there is, so what

1107
01:41:15.880 --> 01:41:19.279
is your take on the et hypothesis? You think it's a possibility, right,

1108
01:41:20.600 --> 01:41:28.479
I don't see I don't see any
reason why we would exclude that none

1109
01:41:28.560 --> 01:41:35.680
whatsoever. In fact, if you
look at our technical trajectory, last month

1110
01:41:35.840 --> 01:41:46.199
we launched the first cruelest naval worship
with trans ocianic capability. Amazing. If

1111
01:41:46.199 --> 01:41:53.600
we you know, autonomous vehicles we
already have. The Voyager spacecraft is outside

1112
01:41:53.640 --> 01:41:56.960
the Solar System. It doesn't even
have a propulsion system on it. But

1113
01:41:57.119 --> 01:42:00.279
the uh, you know, there's
a group right now that is putting together

1114
01:42:00.800 --> 01:42:05.039
a plan to send some sensors to
the nearest star, Alpha Centauri. And

1115
01:42:05.119 --> 01:42:11.520
Stephen Hawkings evolved with the groups some
other people and they're they're for real and

1116
01:42:11.520 --> 01:42:19.439
they're engineering people. It's trivial to
imagine a civilization somewhat more advanced than our

1117
01:42:19.520 --> 01:42:27.079
own at a minimum, given what
we're seeing with artificial intelligence being able to

1118
01:42:27.119 --> 01:42:32.039
spew autonomous vehicles out and if it
took them one hundred or three hundred or

1119
01:42:32.039 --> 01:42:35.479
five hundred years to get somewhere,
it doesn't matter to a computer, right,

1120
01:42:36.439 --> 01:42:42.399
And you know, these kinds of
things are already on our horizon.

1121
01:42:44.520 --> 01:42:48.319
Why we would think that if there's
no reason, there's every reason to think

1122
01:42:48.359 --> 01:42:54.720
that there's life elsewhere. How frequently? How often? How often does it

1123
01:42:54.760 --> 01:43:01.319
become highly sophisticated and technical? All
those questions remain to be answered. I'm

1124
01:43:01.359 --> 01:43:03.960
somebody that is of the view that, you know, the best way to

1125
01:43:04.000 --> 01:43:10.279
approach is to scientifically and empirically,
and my colleagues on the board of UFO

1126
01:43:10.359 --> 01:43:14.000
data, that's kind of what unites
us. That's what we're trying to do.

1127
01:43:15.000 --> 01:43:19.279
We're all canalyzed by the various possibilities, and we're eager to get answers.

1128
01:43:20.439 --> 01:43:27.680
But absolutely, I think you know, there was interesting physicist Brian Green

1129
01:43:27.920 --> 01:43:31.560
made the point that in an infinite
universe, and we think it is infinite

1130
01:43:31.640 --> 01:43:36.359
based on what we know about the
curvature of space time, every combination of

1131
01:43:36.439 --> 01:43:44.000
atoms and molecules must not only not
recur, but recur infinitely. So there

1132
01:43:44.079 --> 01:43:48.720
must be an infinite infinite number of
other advanced civilizations. Yeah, very good.

1133
01:43:48.760 --> 01:43:51.720
Hey, we are totally out of
time, Chris. I want to

1134
01:43:51.760 --> 01:43:58.319
thank you so much, my pleasure, Martin. I'm sorry to disappoint people

1135
01:43:58.640 --> 01:44:01.600
who were hoping I would come out, I would say that that you know,

1136
01:44:01.680 --> 01:44:04.960
we've got the aliens underground, but
perhaps we do, but I'm not

1137
01:44:05.000 --> 01:44:09.239
aware of it. Right, all
right, you take care, Thanks love,

1138
01:44:09.520 --> 01:44:13.000
all right, all right, everyone, so thanks so much. That's

1139
01:44:13.039 --> 01:44:15.079
it for the show. I hope
you enjoyed it. And if you're listening

1140
01:44:15.119 --> 01:44:19.960
this far, you're either listening live
or you're supporting the show and or you're

1141
01:44:19.960 --> 01:44:25.319
listening to the Dark Matter Digital Network
on Thursdays. Thanks a lot. And

1142
01:44:25.479 --> 01:44:30.119
our guest next week is Jeff Willis
spelled with an es at the end,

1143
01:44:30.159 --> 01:44:33.600
no relation, and we're going to
be talking about Phoenix, so that's coming

1144
01:44:33.680 --> 01:44:38.399
up next week. And again I
want to thank everyone for listening. This

1145
01:44:38.560 --> 01:45:00.960
is Martin Willis saying, keep your
eyes to the sky.