WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:04.160 Greetings, fellow seekers of the unknown. It's Brian and I'm here today to 2 00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:08.119 share something truly extraordinary with all of you. As you know, my journey 3 00:00:08.119 --> 00:00:12.000 to uncover the truth of all things strange has taken me on a wild ride 4 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:16.760 filled with incredible experiences and encounters with the unseen. And today I want to 5 00:00:16.800 --> 00:00:20.480 share that journey with all of you by introducing you to Hanger one Publishing. 6 00:00:20.879 --> 00:00:25.640 Hanger one Publishing is the premier destination for books on all things strange and mysterious, 7 00:00:26.079 --> 00:00:30.079 from Bigfoot to cryptids, UFOs and the paranormal. They cover it all, 8 00:00:30.480 --> 00:00:33.840 and let me tell you, the books in their catalog are simply amazing. 9 00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:38.200 One book that I'm particularly excited about is The Freeman Bigfoot Files by Michael 10 00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:42.159 Paul Freeman. This is no ordinary book, my friends. This is an 11 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:48.560 immersive experience unlike any other. With Hanger One's proprietary immersive book technology, you 12 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:52.840 can see and hear audio and video in the printed books. You'll get exclusive 13 00:00:52.880 --> 00:00:57.479 access to the highest resolution, full color premium print pages, over a hundred 14 00:00:57.479 --> 00:01:00.920 full color photos, and dozens of exclusion audio and video clips that have never 15 00:01:02.000 --> 00:01:04.879 been revealed until now. It's a one of a kind experience that will take 16 00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:10.079 you deep into the world of Bigfoot. Another book that I simply can't recommend 17 00:01:10.159 --> 00:01:15.040 enough is The Bigfoot Influencers by Tim Halleran. This book features candid, compelling 18 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.879 conversations with the biggest names in the Bigfoot community and it will give you a 19 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.920 behind the scenes look at what they really think about this mysterious creature. You'll 20 00:01:22.920 --> 00:01:26.719 hear from researchers, scientists and investigators and get a glimpse into the inner workings 21 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:30.840 of the bigfoot world. And finally, for all of my fellow British Bigfoot 22 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:36.319 enthusiasts, I want to mention Beast of Britain by Andy McGrath. This book 23 00:01:36.359 --> 00:01:40.079 is a must read for anyone interested in the cryptids of the British Isles. 24 00:01:40.319 --> 00:01:44.680 McGrath has spent over twenty five years researching and obsessing about these unknown creatures, 25 00:01:44.959 --> 00:01:49.200 and in this book he shares his findings and current research. It's a journey 26 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:53.760 into the darkness where nobody ventures into the woods anymore and where the many yet 27 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.000 to be discovered Beasts of Britain lie. So if you're ready to take your 28 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:00.519 journey into the unknown to the next level, then you need to check out 29 00:02:00.599 --> 00:02:06.319 Hanger one Publishing. These books are more than just books, their gateways into 30 00:02:06.359 --> 00:02:08.840 a world of mystery and discovery. And the best part. You can find 31 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:14.120 their entire book catalog and Hanger one Publishing dot com. So what are you 32 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:19.080 waiting for? Visit Hanger one Publishing dot com today and let the journey begin. 33 00:02:19.319 --> 00:02:22.240 Now. I know what your reporting. I got a strain of going 34 00:02:22.280 --> 00:02:25.199 on here. Something just killing my dog. Something killed your dog, my 35 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:29.039 dog. We're flying to or over the trade. I don't know how it 36 00:02:29.159 --> 00:02:34.439 did it, okay, dam and I'm really confused. Also, I thought 37 00:02:34.599 --> 00:02:37.000 my dog coming over the fence, and they would have did when you hit 38 00:02:37.080 --> 00:02:39.120 the girl entertaining cards. And although I saw it was my dog coming over 39 00:02:39.159 --> 00:03:01.560 the fen what are you reporting? We gotta some one or something crawling around 40 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:13.400 out here. You see what it was. I'm out here looking up near 41 00:03:13.439 --> 00:03:15.000 the window now and I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside 42 00:03:16.479 --> 00:03:23.840 heat. Anybody here, Hello, get somebody out here. What's going on 43 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:28.080 out there? I thought I'm a bit about second four nine. I don't 44 00:03:28.120 --> 00:03:38.080 know he's him out there? Yeah, I'm looking right. Hey, everyone, 45 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:40.159 it's Brian. No, you didn't click the wrong podcast. This is 46 00:03:40.159 --> 00:03:45.199 the Sasquatch Odyssey, but I'm not here this week. I just dropped in 47 00:03:45.280 --> 00:03:47.479 to tell you guys that I am actually on vacation and Wayne is going to 48 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:52.080 be taking care of you over the next few episodes. Have no fear. 49 00:03:52.400 --> 00:03:55.639 He's put together some amazing guests and some amazing encounter stories. I know you 50 00:03:55.639 --> 00:03:59.800 guys are going to enjoy them just as much as I have. I will 51 00:03:59.840 --> 00:04:03.680 be back with a brand new episode for you guys on Wednesday, May seventeenth, 52 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:09.680 but until then, as always, sit back, relax, and enjoy 53 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:15.000 the show. Daniel, how are you doing, sir. I'm doing just 54 00:04:15.120 --> 00:04:19.079 fine, and thank you for having me. Thank you, yes, sir, 55 00:04:19.279 --> 00:04:23.680 Yes, sir, Thank you so very much for taking the time out 56 00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.680 of your busy day and sunny Los Angeles. What's it like in Cali today? 57 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:32.360 Well, today's a warm day, but prior to today, it's been 58 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:39.920 very cool and rainy in southern California, actually all of California. But now 59 00:04:40.040 --> 00:04:42.720 it's starting to warm up, which is a good thing. What is the 60 00:04:42.720 --> 00:04:46.920 temperature usually around this time of year in California? Oh, probably around seventy 61 00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:53.439 five, between seventy five and eighty very comfortable. Yeah, the term sunny 62 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:58.399 southern sunny California, or is sunny southern California. We've been in the eighties 63 00:04:58.399 --> 00:05:02.120 down here, and I'm in Tennessee lass in Arkansas, and it's gotten up 64 00:05:02.160 --> 00:05:05.600 there about ninety A couple of times. Down here, it is. It 65 00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:10.079 gets miserable in the summer. Down here. It's cold right now. I 66 00:05:10.600 --> 00:05:15.639 don't know what day I'm wearing clothes. Start out in a sweater, switched 67 00:05:15.639 --> 00:05:18.399 a T shirt, back in a sweater. So I'm ready for some eighty 68 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:24.000 degree weather. All right, Daniel, let's get things rolling. First off, 69 00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:28.160 I want to hear what gut you started in the big book world. 70 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:32.800 What peat your interest? Was it an encounter? This is what happened and 71 00:05:32.879 --> 00:05:38.920 and win most people who followed me. I can trace my roots to my 72 00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:44.240 interest in the subject matter to one movie that I saw at the walk In 73 00:05:44.319 --> 00:05:48.120 Theater about nineteen seventy three when I was about ten years old, and it 74 00:05:48.199 --> 00:05:55.120 was called The Legend of Boggy Creek. And it, just as I said 75 00:05:55.160 --> 00:05:59.639 before, it kind of hit me like a ton of bricks because they were 76 00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.600 talking about this creature and at the time, ten years old, I didn't 77 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:08.800 know whether they were talking about like a fictional creature or real creature. Because 78 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:13.439 again you're ten years old and you're looking at something. This movie was kind 79 00:06:13.480 --> 00:06:18.399 of a documentary style but also thriller style, to kind of a mix a 80 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:23.600 doc you thriller, so to speak. And so when I was done with 81 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:28.480 that movie, it just kind of lodged into me and I was wanted to 82 00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:33.279 know more. And so somehow, probably within the next year or so, 83 00:06:33.399 --> 00:06:39.160 I kind of started figuring out what they were talking about in that movie Boggy 84 00:06:39.240 --> 00:06:44.600 Creek in The Foul Monster, that this was like this Bigfoot thing. So 85 00:06:44.680 --> 00:06:48.519 I went to the library and I started checking out books on Bigfoot, and 86 00:06:48.759 --> 00:06:54.680 that's how I got going. So I got going very young. That's how 87 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.160 I got started completely. Yeah, you talked to a lot of people, 88 00:06:58.319 --> 00:07:02.399 and that movie, a legendary Boggy Creek, has meant something to so many 89 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:09.439 people. Normally what you hear is the Patterson Gimmlin film obviously is what got 90 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:14.360 people interested in the subject. But next I have found all the people I've 91 00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:16.759 talked to, and that's the first question I ask everyone that I bring on, 92 00:07:17.600 --> 00:07:21.439 and it's usually Patty film. And then the legend of Boggy Creek. 93 00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:28.480 For me, I was not aware of the Patterson film till much later, 94 00:07:28.639 --> 00:07:32.399 or a little bit later, by way of a commercial advertisement I think, 95 00:07:32.439 --> 00:07:39.040 for a movie called The Mysterious Monsters, and I think that was part of 96 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:45.279 what they would call today the trailer that you saw commercial on TV. And 97 00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:49.399 that's when I kind of became aware of the Patterson Gimlin film. But even 98 00:07:49.519 --> 00:07:55.560 before it was the legend of Boggy Creek that just really sucked me in. 99 00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:01.160 I guess if I were a drug addict or an alcoholic and the movie was 100 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:07.279 about either of those subjects, I would have been dead by now. That's 101 00:08:07.319 --> 00:08:11.480 funny. Funny we talked about the Paterson Gimblin film, and that's a good 102 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:16.759 segue into what you know. I think we're gonna be talking about. The 103 00:08:16.759 --> 00:08:22.639 majority of this episode is just how much all the knowledge that you have acquired 104 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:28.519 over this film and just your your experience with it. It's my opinion, 105 00:08:28.600 --> 00:08:33.159 and I've said this before, the whole mystery with big Foot was solved in 106 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:41.360 nineteen sixty seven. In my opinion, that film proved to everyone that there 107 00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.720 is an unknown North American primate walking around in the woods. I don't know 108 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.960 what else people need to see. Once you look at that film, what 109 00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:56.720 was your opinion? I guess my first opinion was something like, there seems 110 00:08:56.720 --> 00:09:03.200 to be something more going on here than what you would consider like a movie 111 00:09:03.240 --> 00:09:07.480 that you saw on television where there's a man in a gorilla costume. It 112 00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:13.399 didn't have that look and feel to it, and so that's what you know. 113 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.480 I knew there was something there to it that looked very real to me, 114 00:09:18.440 --> 00:09:22.759 and so as the years went on, I gained more knowledge about it. 115 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:28.200 But let me backtrack just a second year. In the early middle seventies, 116 00:09:28.639 --> 00:09:31.320 I started collecting some of the books, and there weren't a lot of 117 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.480 them out, but somehow I managed to find a book, I guess, 118 00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.720 on the Track of the Sasquatch by John Greene that was published in sixty eight, 119 00:09:41.519 --> 00:09:43.519 and so on the back of the book he had his address there. 120 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.000 And then I saw that he had I guess, maybe two more booklets, 121 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:52.879 and so I ordered those and I also wrote a letter to him and he 122 00:09:52.919 --> 00:09:56.519 wrote back, probably didn't know. I was just a teenager at the time. 123 00:09:58.279 --> 00:10:03.679 And then same thing with Sasquatched by Don Hunter and Renee de Hinden that 124 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.440 at the back of his book he had a postal address, and I wrote 125 00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:13.480 to him as well, and he wrote back, And like I've told various 126 00:10:13.519 --> 00:10:20.559 people, it's like being apprenticeship program with like Kobe Bryant and Wilt Chamberlain or 127 00:10:20.679 --> 00:10:26.080 Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan. However away you want to slice it, I 128 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:31.399 went, I got dialed in or plugged in straight to the top immediately. 129 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:37.039 So it was good schooling. And so I'm fifty nine now. I didn't 130 00:10:37.039 --> 00:10:41.039 know that I would be active this long, but here I am, and 131 00:10:41.519 --> 00:10:45.840 I guess I owe part of the credit to those two individuals who are no 132 00:10:45.919 --> 00:10:48.960 longer with us. Yeah, I mean you you hit it right on the 133 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:54.840 head when you compared those guys in their field to Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan 134 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:00.720 or you know, because those were a big time and it's awesome everybody can 135 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:05.679 say that they had mentors like that. That's all very very cool. The 136 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:09.679 main question that I want to ask you, and the question that I have 137 00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.399 when it comes to the Patterson Gimming with film, and I feel like a 138 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:16.840 lot of people have this question. In your opinion, how were these two 139 00:11:16.879 --> 00:11:26.360 cowboys able to get so close to this sasquatch before it realized that they were 140 00:11:26.399 --> 00:11:31.159 on them. What happened, in your opinion, My opinion is this is 141 00:11:31.200 --> 00:11:35.279 that a couple of things were in their favor. Is that they were on 142 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:45.519 horseback. They had three horses as they were going walking upstream on Bluff Creek. 143 00:11:45.960 --> 00:11:50.360 And so generally, if the creek is going south, or you're going 144 00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:56.039 upstream and the stream is going the opposite direction, generally the wind is going 145 00:11:56.080 --> 00:12:01.720 to be heading away from the subjects. So in other words, any smell 146 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.919 is not going to be pushed towards the subject, the unknown subject that was 147 00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:11.320 on that sandbar, and so that could have been part of the element of 148 00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:20.559 surprise. And so the other thing is that it certainly appears, based on 149 00:12:20.679 --> 00:12:28.000 my research, that the subject was squatting down in the creek and possibly getting 150 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:31.799 a drink of water, in which case it may have been temporarily distracted. 151 00:12:33.399 --> 00:12:37.519 And so I'm writing about this right now. In fact, I was writing 152 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.200 about it just yesterday, that this may have been the element surprise, that 153 00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:48.720 they were able to get so close. And so Roger part of his testimony 154 00:12:50.240 --> 00:12:56.759 that he told his wife and I visited with pat Patterson May June of two 155 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:01.679 thousand and nine. According to pat Patter, which is the widow of Roger 156 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:09.080 Patterson, she said shortly after the film was shot that Roger was talking in 157 00:13:09.120 --> 00:13:16.759 which case. In this case, Patricia Patterson's sister was in the house and 158 00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:20.919 she was on a manual typewriter typing what Roger stated. And part of what 159 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.960 he stated was that the subject was crouched down by the creek, and so 160 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.559 that was his initial, the very first detection of what he saw. And 161 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:37.240 Roger was ahead of Bob Gimlin, so he saw the thing first, and 162 00:13:37.360 --> 00:13:43.720 probably within moments, maybe one, two three, Bob Gimlin would see what 163 00:13:43.840 --> 00:13:48.360 Roger saw. And so by then the subject gets up, turns around, 164 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:56.399 starts to walk away. And so maybe because it was distracted, maybe because 165 00:13:56.399 --> 00:14:00.799 the wind was going away from the subject and not towards the subject, and 166 00:14:00.919 --> 00:14:07.759 maybe because they were on horseback that everything was different in which they could approach 167 00:14:07.960 --> 00:14:15.039 very close. That's my idea about it. And still, you know, 168 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:20.679 various researchers kind of have different estimates as to how close they were. The 169 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.000 closest they ever were to the subject. By Roger's own admission, I think 170 00:14:26.039 --> 00:14:28.679 when I first saw it. He said it was about one hundred and twenty 171 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.159 feet, and then he was able to close that gap a little bit. 172 00:14:31.279 --> 00:14:35.360 But then as he stood still for the later part of the motion picture, 173 00:14:37.000 --> 00:14:41.080 the subject gains more distance than you could see it on film as you get 174 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:45.039 closer to the end of the film. Yeah, that's I told you before 175 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.960 we got started that I had an opinion. I have a theory of how 176 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.159 they got so close, and you and I can't agree on the biggest part 177 00:14:54.200 --> 00:15:01.600 of it. I think horses. The horses have something to do with the 178 00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:05.919 reason they were able to get so close. I think there's something to do 179 00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.679 with big foot and horses. I don't know if they're fascinated with them. 180 00:15:09.720 --> 00:15:11.799 I don't. I don't know what it is. But this is just my 181 00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:18.919 opinion. Well, if let's us call the subject Patty from care going forward, 182 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:24.960 is that possibly the subject may have seen horses prior to seeing Roger and 183 00:15:26.039 --> 00:15:30.759 Bob. And because it looks like a natural animal, like maybe it's like 184 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.759 a deer or something in a way, because it's four legged, is that 185 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.679 it wasn't intimidated, it wasn't scared, and maybe he had to do a 186 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:45.960 double take realizing that there were people on these horses that may have caused a 187 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:50.879 little bit of alarm. But I wanted to address another point that you brought 188 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:56.360 up is that I think you stated that in nineteen sixty seven, this motion 189 00:15:56.440 --> 00:16:03.159 picture came in Roger Patterson's film call it the PG Film, and that you 190 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.159 indicated it should have settled the matter right there and then, well, a 191 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:11.480 lot of people felt that way. But within that time, from sixty seven 192 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:18.679 to twenty twenty three, a whole new community grew up of skeptics end doubters, 193 00:16:18.519 --> 00:16:25.080 and they even have magazines called Skeptic and Skeptical Enquirer. They kind of 194 00:16:25.120 --> 00:16:30.559 failed differently about it. In the sense that we feel that it's a biological, 195 00:16:30.879 --> 00:16:33.559 real creature that we know is Bigfoot. They see it as just a 196 00:16:33.600 --> 00:16:38.919 man in a costume. There's a whole community out there that has that point 197 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:44.559 of view, which I don't agree with. But you could see what happened 198 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:49.799 from sixty seven to twenty twenty three that there's this supposing point of view, 199 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:56.000 and unfortunately, I don't think they have a lot of backing because, as 200 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.799 I've stated before, if it is just a man in a costume, the 201 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.640 proof is in not putting in the sense that it's a man in a costume, 202 00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:07.160 then you should be able to duplicate it. But I want to date, 203 00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:12.880 they had all this time, almost fifty plus years, and no one 204 00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:17.559 has done it. They've tried to do it. In fact, they had 205 00:17:17.799 --> 00:17:23.039 the so called guy Bob Horonymus in an ape suit trying to duplicate it. 206 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:29.640 But it doesn't come anywhere close to what you see in the original PG film, 207 00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:36.720 And so that by itself should speak volumes. Absolutely absolutely. We've talked 208 00:17:36.720 --> 00:17:41.240 about it several times on this show, and I don't want to misspeak, 209 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.440 Daniel, but I believe maybe you can correct me. And I meant to 210 00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.839 look it up before we came on. I just got busy with my daughter 211 00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.720 and I wasn't able to confirm it. But either the a couple of years 212 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:59.319 before or prior to the Petty film, or after the movie Planet of the 213 00:17:59.319 --> 00:18:04.079 Apes was out and they won the Academy Award for Best Costume, it was 214 00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:08.200 either before or right before or right after. And if that was the best 215 00:18:08.680 --> 00:18:14.400 that Hollywood could do as far as costumes, how did these cowboys? How 216 00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:26.119 were they able to do that? Stay tuned for more paranormal Odyssey. Well, 217 00:18:26.160 --> 00:18:30.279 that's just it. And for the record, it was just months later. 218 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:33.920 It was I think in February of sixty eight that The Planet of the 219 00:18:33.960 --> 00:18:40.920 Apes was released to theaters nationwide. So the PG film came first and then 220 00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.119 the Planet of the Apes. But yeah, that is a good point, 221 00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:49.119 is that what Roger produced is better than what we see in the Planet of 222 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:53.680 the Apes. So then the question is you mean to tell me that a 223 00:18:53.759 --> 00:19:00.160 broke cowboy from Yakima, Washington was able to pull off something better than we 224 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:03.279 see in the Planet of the Apes. I mean, he could have been 225 00:19:03.279 --> 00:19:07.160 employed in Hollywood, but he wasn't. He was in Yakima, Washington, 226 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:11.480 right, And he went specifically to the Bluff Creek area, him and Bob 227 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:17.799 Gimlin because there were reports of footprints in that area and they wanted to follow 228 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:23.079 up and they weren't able to get there until October, and that's when they 229 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:26.960 were hoping to see some more tracks, but they didn't. Actually they did 230 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:32.119 take that back. They were hoping to see some more tracks for a documentary 231 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:37.160 that Roger Patterson wanted to make, but instead of seeing the tracks, they 232 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:41.759 saw literally the track maker. And then they saw the tracks and so it 233 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:45.039 was a two for one, so to speak. So yeah, Plan of 234 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:49.799 the Apes Principal filming began in nineteen sixty seven and the movie was released in 235 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:55.680 nineteen sixty eight and won the Best Oscar. It was sixty eight or sixty 236 00:19:55.759 --> 00:19:59.960 nine that they won the Academy Award. It was hold On, I think 237 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:03.759 it was sixty nine, but the movie came out in sixty eight, and 238 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:10.680 there is no way I'm looking at just the makeup, the hours and hours 239 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:15.839 of the actors in the makeup chairs, There's no way that those two guys 240 00:20:15.319 --> 00:20:21.200 could have done this. Stay tuned for more Sasquatch outsee Waring right back after 241 00:20:21.240 --> 00:20:29.279 these messages. Yeah, but see, I agree with you one hundred percent. 242 00:20:29.519 --> 00:20:34.440 But again the skeptical and doubting community don't agree because their point of view 243 00:20:34.519 --> 00:20:40.640 is that all you're seeing is something on film. It's not physical evidence, 244 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:45.880 not the body. And so a long time ago I was of the firm 245 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:51.640 impression that the only thing that is ever going to settle the question is a 246 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:56.200 body of a bigfoot, and nothing else will suffice. I mean, we 247 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:02.519 have from sixty seven one of the best films ever the world, and science 248 00:21:02.759 --> 00:21:07.039 and the general public isn't buying it one hundred. But if you had a 249 00:21:07.079 --> 00:21:14.079 body, you'd have incontest you'd have incontestable, robust, physical evidence that no 250 00:21:14.119 --> 00:21:18.119 one can doubt. I mean, you could doubt it, but there's the 251 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.519 proof right in front of your face. Unfortunately, I think you're one hundred 252 00:21:22.519 --> 00:21:26.920 point Rod Daniel. I say unfortunately, because it's gonna take the death of 253 00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:30.039 one of these things. We know that they're out there, we know that 254 00:21:30.079 --> 00:21:33.519 they have to pass away, they have to die. In the best case 255 00:21:33.519 --> 00:21:38.160 scenario is someone comes across one that's already to see right right. I don't 256 00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:42.279 know that that's going to happen. So then you get the argument between the 257 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:47.519 two different sides and the big quick community, the biological versus the woo Do 258 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:52.039 we need to kill one? And a lot of the biological people say, 259 00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:55.079 yeah, that's what it's gonna take. We're gonna have to have someone to 260 00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:56.920 take one of these things down. And then you've got the wou side that 261 00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:00.279 says, no, these are don't I'm not going to get into all that, 262 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:04.319 but they don't want to see anybody hurt one of these things. And 263 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.960 I can see both sides, I really can. I'm with you, it's 264 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.400 going to take a body if you have something like the Paterson Gimblet film, 265 00:22:11.440 --> 00:22:15.200 and that's not convincing people. What's going to convince people? You said, 266 00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:21.400 at a body, how do you stand on that? Do you think one 267 00:22:21.480 --> 00:22:26.440 needs to be killed? Well to prove it? Yes, but just the 268 00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:30.920 idea of killing something that we're not really too certain about in terms of where 269 00:22:30.920 --> 00:22:37.000 it is in relationship to man, I don't know. Then you're getting into 270 00:22:37.039 --> 00:22:41.920 a lot of questions, ethical questions and whatnot. But then I would stop 271 00:22:41.000 --> 00:22:47.640 right there and I would say, all the deer hunters in North America, 272 00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:52.119 you know, you can go shoot deer certain certain seasons on the provision that 273 00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:56.519 you have a license. But then again, look at all the poachers who 274 00:22:56.559 --> 00:23:03.119 go out without a license and do it anyway. So I'm saying my point 275 00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:07.720 is it's whether it's right or wrong is somewhat immaterial, because it's not going 276 00:23:07.799 --> 00:23:12.000 to stop someone who's bloodthirsty, who wants to go out just bag one. 277 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:18.400 You see what I'm saying. Yeah, just because there's a stop sign out 278 00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:22.839 in the middle of the country at the railroad tracks, I'm sure there's a 279 00:23:22.839 --> 00:23:25.599 lot of people that they don't see a train, they're just going to blow 280 00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:30.640 right by it. Yeah, you're right, they're exactly right. So Patterson 281 00:23:30.680 --> 00:23:36.799 gimmem a film nineteen sixty seven that coming up on sixty years ago. If 282 00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:41.920 sixty seven years ago, why haven't we been able to get more footage, 283 00:23:42.079 --> 00:23:47.400 to get at least one more film? And people will argue the Freeman footage 284 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:51.359 is good, and I think it's great. That's probably number two in my 285 00:23:51.440 --> 00:23:57.759 opinion on bigfoot evidence. But why haven't we been able to get more footage 286 00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:03.279 on par with the Patty Well, two things that come to mind immediately is 287 00:24:03.599 --> 00:24:11.039 one, the rarity of the creatures population can't be that big. I mean, 288 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:17.200 people every day see dogs and cats. That's because they run in the 289 00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:22.160 millions and they're domesticated. But something like this, we don't know what the 290 00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:26.279 population is, but one could suspect that it's very low. And two, 291 00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:33.160 the data seems to suggest that we're dealing with a nocturnal animal more than a 292 00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:41.440 diurnal an animal that operates during the daytime. And so what Roger and Bob 293 00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:45.200 saw may have been this thing just getting up to get a drink and going 294 00:24:45.240 --> 00:24:49.160 back up into the hills to go sleep again. And so they they may 295 00:24:49.160 --> 00:24:52.440 have just you know, every once in a while someone does win the latto 296 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.960 and so they hit the big footbotto in the sense that their timing was just 297 00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:03.559 right, and it's inevitable sooner or later something like that would happen. Now 298 00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:07.839 with regard to the Freeman footage that was shot in August of ninety two, 299 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.920 while the jury is still out on that too, but yeah, in terms 300 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.720 of clarity, it's a very good film and a very good video because that 301 00:25:17.799 --> 00:25:23.799 was by then things converted over from film to video. And why someone has 302 00:25:23.839 --> 00:25:29.119 not got another video, I'm not certain about, but I would suspect it 303 00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:34.839 might have to do something with the fact that they're mostly nighttime creatures and mostly 304 00:25:34.880 --> 00:25:40.240 the numbers aren't that big. I mean, it's not like every day if 305 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:44.799 we talk about a known North American animal such as the wolverine, that you 306 00:25:44.960 --> 00:25:51.920 get good pictures or a good video, even though which actually I got a 307 00:25:51.960 --> 00:25:55.839 backtrack a little bit just last month, I think, or earlier this month, 308 00:25:55.839 --> 00:25:59.759 they got some footage of wolverines in the state of Oregon, which kind 309 00:25:59.759 --> 00:26:06.319 of was surprising in the sense that wolverines have not been noted in the state 310 00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:10.880 of Oregon for quite some time, in fact, decades if I'm not mistaken, 311 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.680 But it does happen. So I mean it could be. I mean, 312 00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:18.160 the show could end today with you and I and tomorrow someone might get 313 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:23.160 the best footage ever of a big foot. I don't know. So why 314 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:27.759 it hasn't happened again, I'm not certain about. But you have to look 315 00:26:27.759 --> 00:26:34.200 at who Roger Patterson was in that era. He was a trailblazer literally in 316 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:41.559 the sense that he was going against the grain and he was hell bent on 317 00:26:41.440 --> 00:26:45.720 doing his big footing thing. At the time, the late sixties, he 318 00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:51.319 had three children at home and a wife and he and when I spoke with 319 00:26:51.359 --> 00:26:55.599 pat Patterson, his widow, I said, well, how do you remember 320 00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:59.680 Roger when he got the big foot bug? And I think what she told 321 00:26:59.720 --> 00:27:04.480 me just a few words. He was always gone. And so once he 322 00:27:04.559 --> 00:27:11.240 got that bigfoot bug, he was always gone, trying to find information or 323 00:27:11.279 --> 00:27:15.359 trying to go look somewhere where he could find some information or actually see one 324 00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.880 or tracks. And so he was he was gung ho. And so yeah, 325 00:27:19.960 --> 00:27:26.240 it seemed like someone not gung ho. He'd probably eventually have success had 326 00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:30.680 he lived, had he lived in instead of dying prematurely. Who knows. 327 00:27:30.799 --> 00:27:37.240 He may have pulled out another He may have gotten another footage. You know, 328 00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:40.920 he was that. I never met Roger Patterson, but the people that 329 00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.960 knew him said that he was. He was a short guy, about five 330 00:27:45.000 --> 00:27:48.839 foot three inches tall, but he was just full of energy and so any 331 00:27:48.920 --> 00:27:52.920 bigfoot was his thing. Like like I said, his wife said, he 332 00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:57.480 was always gone, and so that you know, and as he did. 333 00:27:57.559 --> 00:28:03.480 Uh. He was interviewed for a documentary in sixty eight by doctor John Napier, 334 00:28:04.240 --> 00:28:10.319 and he says that in there when he got that footage, that it 335 00:28:10.400 --> 00:28:14.240 was a great moment for him. And so, I mean, most people 336 00:28:14.240 --> 00:28:17.559 will never see a big foot to begin with. Not only did he see 337 00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:21.920 one, but he had the presence of mind to get his camera out of 338 00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.720 his saddle bag on his horse to get some pretty decent footage. Maybe what 339 00:28:26.839 --> 00:28:32.359 I'm trying to say, had it not been Roger Patterson, any other person 340 00:28:32.400 --> 00:28:36.839 on that horse may have not been may have not been able to pull off 341 00:28:36.839 --> 00:28:41.480 what Roger did. So it just really epic. Yeah, as a youngster, 342 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:47.880 he did gymnastics with his brothers, and so because of his agility, 343 00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:53.599 that may have helped too, because most people don't realize that his horse reared 344 00:28:53.720 --> 00:28:57.119 up and fell over and he fell with it. He was still able to 345 00:28:57.119 --> 00:29:02.079 get on his feet. Wow, I didn't know that, and I certainly 346 00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:07.119 did. That's part of his testimony, and I'm right. I'm actually working 347 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:14.960 on another booklet about the Patterson Gimblin film. In nineteen ninety four and then 348 00:29:15.039 --> 00:29:18.519 later in two thousand and three, I had a booklet that was called Bigfoot 349 00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:22.279 at Bluff Creek, And if I may, I'll show it to you. 350 00:29:22.359 --> 00:29:25.680 This is my shop copy. Let's see if we can see it up here 351 00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:30.000 we go. And so these things are bold, very hard to get. 352 00:29:30.039 --> 00:29:36.240 They're all sold out. But since that time, from two thousand and three 353 00:29:36.480 --> 00:29:40.599 to twenty twenty three, which is what twenty years is, a lot of 354 00:29:40.640 --> 00:29:45.960 things have changed in terms of in terms of our knowledge about the PG film. 355 00:29:45.000 --> 00:29:49.160 And so I'll be filling in the readers with all those things that people 356 00:29:49.200 --> 00:29:56.359 are not necessarily too aware of. For instance, nobody ever had, to 357 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:03.200 my knowledge, on a tape recorder. Asked Bob see when I got going. 358 00:30:03.640 --> 00:30:07.079 Roger Patterson was deceased, but I did have access to Bob Gimlin and 359 00:30:07.279 --> 00:30:12.039 on numerous occasions. I consider him a friend and a colleague, and he's 360 00:30:12.240 --> 00:30:18.279 I guess ninety years old then. But I asked him, I said, 361 00:30:18.359 --> 00:30:22.119 when you guys him and Roger, when you were on that sandbar and started 362 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:27.559 looking around after the creature departed, I said, I asked him, well, 363 00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:33.079 how did that subject, Patty, how did she get there to that 364 00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:37.119 point where you first saw her? No one, I guess had the presence 365 00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:44.640 of mine as an investigator or interrogator or someone who asked questions, asked that 366 00:30:44.920 --> 00:30:49.400 question, and he says, well, it's like this. When we looked 367 00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:56.599 right there at the edge of Bluff Creek, we only saw those tracks departing 368 00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.519 from that creek onto the sandbar and then away. It was just one thing. 369 00:31:02.200 --> 00:31:06.640 So that would imply that what the subject was doing to get to that 370 00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:12.079 point, because it didn't fly sasquatches don't fly. It was literally in the 371 00:31:12.160 --> 00:31:19.559 creek, and that would suggest something an animal that possesses a great amount of 372 00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:29.160 intelligence, that was deliberately trying to avoid leaving tracks, and so it may 373 00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:33.359 have got to that point just walking in the creek, decided to get a 374 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.480 drink, and then there was disturbances by the horses and Roger and Bob, 375 00:31:37.960 --> 00:31:41.119 and then it had no choice but to take off in a different direction on 376 00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:47.599 the sandbar because the only tracks that were seen on that sandbar were from the 377 00:31:47.680 --> 00:31:52.440 creek away as the subject walk and was filmed. And then that's it. 378 00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:59.799 And so that is really a very interesting piece of information because prior to that, 379 00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:05.759 actually just a few months earlier, John Green and Renee to Hendon were 380 00:32:05.839 --> 00:32:10.440 up on Blue Creek Mountain with various other people to examine the Blue Creek Mountain 381 00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:15.119 tracks and there were two or three different individuals, I think a fifteen inch 382 00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:21.240 track and a thirteen inch track and Blue Creek Mountain from where they saw those 383 00:32:21.279 --> 00:32:27.400 tracks to the Patterson Gimblin film site as the crow flies might be six miles, 384 00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:32.680 so that's basically the what I consider the same area. And so maybe 385 00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:39.440 when they were examining not those trackways up on Blue Creek Mountain, maybe these 386 00:32:39.599 --> 00:32:46.200 hairy furry creatures were looking at them from behind the bush saying like what are 387 00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:52.720 they doing looking at these and maybe Patty was part of them, and maybe 388 00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:57.559 they kind of said, hey, we should avoid leaving tracks. Wow, 389 00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:02.400 that's interesting. And since you talk about track and the ones too and from 390 00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:09.839 the then MK Davis was able to figure out something pretty interesting with the track. 391 00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:14.920 Way with all of his work, the work that he's done with the 392 00:33:15.000 --> 00:33:20.720 Petterson Gimlin film. What's your opinion on the work that MK Davis has done 393 00:33:20.920 --> 00:33:27.160 and particularly what he found out with the track. Well, I don't follow 394 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:31.400 too much of MK Davis's work today. I think a lot of it's very 395 00:33:31.440 --> 00:33:37.839 colorful. But two things that he did that are I think very significant, 396 00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.319 and I'll be writing about them in the book. I'm actually happy that you 397 00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:45.759 mentioned that his number one he was the Bigfooter of the year, I believe 398 00:33:45.799 --> 00:33:51.759 in for the Bigfoot Times newsletter, which I edit and published for December of 399 00:33:51.799 --> 00:33:54.119 two thousand and seven, may have been December of two thousand and six. 400 00:33:54.839 --> 00:34:00.240 For his singular work, which is as brilliant, is that he found that 401 00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:07.039 you could see images on the film itself of what you would call, let's 402 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:09.440 just put it this way, when a boat goes in the water and you 403 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:14.119 look at the back of the boat, there's a wake that's created in the 404 00:34:14.119 --> 00:34:19.239 water, and so as the subject is walking on the Patterson Gimblin film site, 405 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:25.559 you could see indentations behind her in certain frames that you can't one hundred 406 00:34:25.559 --> 00:34:30.519 percent say that those are tracks, but they're right in line with Patty, 407 00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:36.920 and so it's highly suggestive that is her individual track way. And two, 408 00:34:37.159 --> 00:34:40.400 I guess other people have done it since he did it. He did, 409 00:34:40.679 --> 00:34:45.880 I guess, one of the first runs of stabilization of the film, and 410 00:34:45.960 --> 00:34:50.760 so that was very significant in the sense that you're able to see the best 411 00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:55.400 frames of the movie stabilized, and so that was a very worthwhile project. 412 00:34:55.480 --> 00:35:02.519 So those two things that within the film itself you can see indentations behind the 413 00:35:02.599 --> 00:35:07.320 subject that are highly suggestive of tracks in the ground because you could see the 414 00:35:07.360 --> 00:35:13.360 ground. And two the stabilation stabilization of the film, which is again a 415 00:35:13.480 --> 00:35:17.559 very significant piece of work. Everything else he has done I haven't really kept 416 00:35:17.559 --> 00:35:22.199 too much track of because he's done so much. It's just like I don't 417 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:27.199 have time to review everything. He has done a lot. He has done 418 00:35:27.239 --> 00:35:30.440 a lot. MK has been on the show once before, and I lock 419 00:35:30.519 --> 00:35:36.159 him. I think that he does really, really good work. Have you 420 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:42.480 seen some of the pictures that he's been able to get of the face of 421 00:35:42.519 --> 00:35:45.440 Patty's face? Have you caught any of those? I think I've seen some 422 00:35:45.519 --> 00:35:50.920 of it on Facebook, But how can I put it? There's there's only 423 00:35:51.039 --> 00:35:54.519 so much you're going to get out of the grain on the film, exactly 424 00:35:54.639 --> 00:36:00.159 the full out and the best work that was ever done was done by Renee 425 00:36:00.199 --> 00:36:07.039 to Hindon and Bruce Bonney in nineteen eighty when they had access to the original 426 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:12.320 film and they made the cibachrome prints, which the general public didn't really learn 427 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:15.840 about until much much later. And really, I think until the Internet got 428 00:36:15.840 --> 00:36:24.079 going and there were web pages and some websites and then later social media, 429 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:29.960 until all of that was put out there on a large scale, that they 430 00:36:30.039 --> 00:36:35.760 realized that there were really sharp frames from the film. And that was from 431 00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:39.280 Bonnie, Bruce Bonney and Renee to Hindon and that work was done in nineteen 432 00:36:39.360 --> 00:36:46.320 eighty and so that's their work, not so much MK Davis and so MK 433 00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:52.679 Davis never worked with the original film. Bruce Bonney and Renee to Hinden did, 434 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.039 So that's the difference. I mean, if you're going to have an 435 00:36:58.039 --> 00:37:04.480 opinion about a Picasso, it's not like you could be looking at a second 436 00:37:04.559 --> 00:37:07.679 copy to say like, oh, it's this and this and this. To 437 00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:10.920 really have an informed opinion, you have to come from the original. That's 438 00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:15.719 true. Yeah, that's that's very true. What do you think about the 439 00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:21.079 upcoming like all the AI technology that's coming about now, and what do you 440 00:37:21.119 --> 00:37:24.159 think that's going to do to a lot of people that are doing hoaxes and 441 00:37:24.280 --> 00:37:29.840 that, because, I mean the AI technology now is mind blowing. Well, 442 00:37:30.079 --> 00:37:35.159 I think I think it's going to be able to more quickly expose the 443 00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.320 videos that are posted on YouTube and whatnot as to whether they're fake or real. 444 00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:45.360 I mean, I don't think anyone keeps track anymore, but there's probably 445 00:37:45.039 --> 00:37:51.280 a new Bigfoot video posted to YouTube every week, if not a time every 446 00:37:51.360 --> 00:37:54.760 day, and everyone scratching their head as to whether it's real or not. 447 00:37:55.760 --> 00:38:00.320 And I always tell people, I said, the first two questions you should 448 00:38:00.360 --> 00:38:06.199 ask is who took the who took the video, who took the pictures? 449 00:38:06.239 --> 00:38:12.599 And where? And if you don't have that information, back up, walk 450 00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:16.639 away and forget about it. Yeah that's great advice. Yeah, well it 451 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:20.440 is because you have to know the stores. I mean, if you look 452 00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:25.480 at the PG film, it was immediately Roger pretty much immediately gave the location 453 00:38:25.519 --> 00:38:31.239 away because other investigators got to that film site and we knew immediately within the 454 00:38:31.360 --> 00:38:37.599 day who was involved, and it was just Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin. 455 00:38:37.880 --> 00:38:42.360 There was never a mention of Bob Horonymus. He didn't he didn't inject himself 456 00:38:42.400 --> 00:38:54.079 into the situation until much later. Stay tuned for more Paranormal Odyssey. And 457 00:38:54.159 --> 00:39:00.559 so that's basically my take on that. But getting back with a I think 458 00:39:00.599 --> 00:39:05.039 the beauty of that, in fact, I was listening to a radio program 459 00:39:05.039 --> 00:39:09.199 on the way home, is that there are people in the community who are 460 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:15.920 doing maps of North America with all the data points of sightings and footprints. 461 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:21.440 And so what AI does is kind of looks at the past data and makes 462 00:39:21.440 --> 00:39:24.039 a predictive model as to what's going to happen in the future. Right, 463 00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:29.000 And so if you could crunch all that data, the more the data the 464 00:39:29.039 --> 00:39:32.360 better and say like, oh, here's a predictive model of what might happen 465 00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:37.480 in twenty twenty four, and it might say you should be looking for bigfoot 466 00:39:37.559 --> 00:39:42.440 in the state of Missouri or the state of Florida, or whatever the case 467 00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:46.519 may be. And so yeah, I think AI in general might be a 468 00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:52.760 good thing to have. And with that said, the other thing is these 469 00:39:52.880 --> 00:39:58.920 game cameras that are seemed to be getting better and better every time you look 470 00:39:59.039 --> 00:40:04.360 up. Is that. I think that's a very good application for what we're 471 00:40:04.400 --> 00:40:07.119 doing. And a lot of people think that, oh they can sense him, 472 00:40:07.159 --> 00:40:10.880 they could smell plastic or this and that. Well, eventually I think 473 00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:15.199 there's going to be a sasquatch that walks by, that trips up, that 474 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:22.840 is not cognizant of this information and we get some good footage. Hope stay 475 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:30.760 tuned for more sasquatch outsee. Will be right back after these messages. Yeah, 476 00:40:30.760 --> 00:40:34.400 thank you. We got our first question of the nut here. Daniel 477 00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:38.360 comes from Brown Dwarf. He asked that Daniel know if there's any part of 478 00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:44.159 the PEG film that has never been released. No, it's all been released. 479 00:40:44.199 --> 00:40:47.840 In fact, the first people to see the film saw everything, and 480 00:40:47.920 --> 00:40:55.199 that was alb Atlee, John Green, Renee de Hendon, Jim McLaren, 481 00:40:55.840 --> 00:41:01.360 possibly albi Atlee's wife if she was there at aldi Atlee's home, and that 482 00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:06.920 was Sunday, October twenty second, and so they saw the entire thing. 483 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:12.840 So if there was anything not released, they would have known about it and 484 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:16.320 said something because they saw the original thing and they never said like, oh, 485 00:41:16.360 --> 00:41:21.800 they've never released this or they've never released that. So no, okay, 486 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:27.719 So those were the first people that Patterson showed the footage to. Yeah. 487 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:30.800 In fact, that late ald Atlee was probably the very first person ever 488 00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:36.320 to see the footage by himself, just to see if something was on the 489 00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:44.320 reel before Roger arrived. Bob Gimlin didn't see it originally on October twenty second 490 00:41:44.440 --> 00:41:46.719 at the Atlee home because he was home and he was sick and he was 491 00:41:46.800 --> 00:41:52.880 tired, and so it was Aldi Atlee, Roger's brother in law, John 492 00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:59.960 Green, Renee de Hindon, Jim McLaren, and more than likely Aldie Atlee 493 00:42:00.159 --> 00:42:05.760 wife who lived in that household as well. So they shoot the footage, 494 00:42:06.119 --> 00:42:09.000 they get the footage, they have to be you know how in the hall 495 00:42:09.159 --> 00:42:13.159 get in heaven. We get it. We did it. We finally got 496 00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.599 it. What's the first thing they do after they get the footage? Do 497 00:42:16.719 --> 00:42:22.559 they immediately do they in the excursion route then and head back or what did 498 00:42:22.599 --> 00:42:28.800 they do? They make the plaster of Paris castings, and then before they 499 00:42:28.800 --> 00:42:34.760 make the plaster of Paris castings, they filmed Bob Gimlin walking alongside the tracks 500 00:42:35.000 --> 00:42:42.000 with Bob's horse, and then also they got footage of Roger making the plaster 501 00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:46.800 of Paris castings. And then they cleared out of the area and they stop 502 00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:53.280 in Willow Creek to tell actually phone Al Hodgson, who was living at the 503 00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:59.719 time, about what had transpired, and from there they went out to the 504 00:43:00.320 --> 00:43:06.039 to quote unquote airmail the film. But according to Bob Gimlin, when I 505 00:43:06.079 --> 00:43:09.599 spoke with him, he says, I do definitely recall being at an airport, 506 00:43:10.119 --> 00:43:15.800 and this was more than likely murray Field. And what murray Field did. 507 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:21.880 It wasn't an airport where you jump on like a commercial airport like lax 508 00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:27.920 People airport, but it was an airport with small planes that carried certain cargo 509 00:43:28.199 --> 00:43:34.400 from point A to point B. And so that's what Murray Phild did at 510 00:43:34.400 --> 00:43:37.440 the time, and they're still open and that's what they still do. They 511 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:40.440 get things, say a set of blueprints or something from one point to the 512 00:43:40.519 --> 00:43:45.960 other point. And so it appears that Roger had stopped there with Bob, 513 00:43:46.760 --> 00:43:52.960 and that Roger went in and had both of the films, the film of 514 00:43:52.039 --> 00:43:58.199 the subject and the film of the footprints airmailed off specifically to his brother in 515 00:43:58.280 --> 00:44:02.679 law, brother in law Aldia to take proceed of in Yakima, Washington. 516 00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:08.320 And so if you fly out Friday night, or say, for instance, 517 00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:14.199 the weather was bad Friday night, they could still do it first thing in 518 00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:20.679 the morning Saturday morning, which is October twenty one. And that journey from 519 00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:24.679 yak from Murray, phil to Yakima is a little over four hundred miles, 520 00:44:25.239 --> 00:44:30.000 so you could do that in an airplane within a couple of hours. And 521 00:44:30.079 --> 00:44:37.440 so Al the athlete has in his possession the films on Saturday, and there 522 00:44:37.440 --> 00:44:43.000 he takes them to get them processed, and then by Sunday he has them 523 00:44:43.039 --> 00:44:46.000 all done, probably by Saturday, and by Sunday they're watching the films. 524 00:44:47.079 --> 00:44:52.079 So there's there's no impossibility of that scenario. It's it's you could do it. 525 00:44:52.599 --> 00:44:57.199 Anyone can do it on the provision that you have a plane. Because 526 00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:02.719 they saw those films first. The premiere showing of the PG film happened October 527 00:45:02.760 --> 00:45:08.760 twenty second in Yakima, Washington at Aldie atlets Home. We got another question 528 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:15.639 here the time with Tiffany taken into account how they stumbled upon Patty. In 529 00:45:15.679 --> 00:45:22.239 your opinion, do you feel that the woodknock people do really make a difference 530 00:45:22.400 --> 00:45:27.519 in some kind of response from yes, I think anyone that wants to do 531 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:30.960 woodknocks, I would not discourage it. I mean, a woodknock is a 532 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.960 woodknock, whether it's a baseball with a baseball bat or with just a piece 533 00:45:35.960 --> 00:45:40.719 of wood that's on the forest floor. Is that Yeah, it's I would 534 00:45:40.760 --> 00:45:45.360 say it's a good strategy. But back when, in the early days of 535 00:45:45.400 --> 00:45:50.360 bigfooting, no one was doing that. But people were hearing these wood knocks 536 00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:54.119 and they were wondering who was making them. And it sure seems like our 537 00:45:54.400 --> 00:46:00.599 Harry friends Bigfoot are the likely culprits of doing this. We're not certain why, 538 00:46:00.639 --> 00:46:05.800 but perhaps it's a way of getting in touch with your neighbor. We've 539 00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:09.480 spent fifty minutes talking about the Patterson Gamle fam. I have a question, 540 00:46:10.400 --> 00:46:15.400 so, what made you start the Bigfoot Times? What made you do all 541 00:46:15.440 --> 00:46:21.599 of this? Well, in January of nineteen ninety nine, excuse me, 542 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:28.280 January of nineteen ninety eight, I started the Bigfoot Times newsletter, and my 543 00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:32.320 motivation for doing it is because at the time there were other newsletters out there 544 00:46:34.559 --> 00:46:38.199 and I felt that they were not as good as they could be, and 545 00:46:38.239 --> 00:46:46.159 so I wanted to produce a newsletter that was really good and really worth the 546 00:46:46.199 --> 00:46:51.920 people who were spending money on a subscription to it. And so twenty five 547 00:46:52.039 --> 00:46:55.280 years later, the Bigfoot Times is the only one that still stands as a 548 00:46:55.320 --> 00:47:01.400 physical newsletter that is printed on paper mailed out to a readership. There's no 549 00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.639 other newsletter in the world that can say that. And when I started, 550 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:10.719 gradually all the other newsletters that were being published, such as The Bigfoot co 551 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:16.800 Op and Don Keating's Newsletter and a couple of Ray Crow's newsletter from Oregon, 552 00:47:17.199 --> 00:47:22.960 they all went to extinct. And the Bigfoot Time still WIMPs. That's awesome. 553 00:47:22.280 --> 00:47:27.079 Quarter of a century, quarter of a century and still going strong. 554 00:47:27.880 --> 00:47:32.599 You and I were talked a little bit before before we came on, and 555 00:47:35.000 --> 00:47:38.800 go ahead and tell everybody, it's just you that puts this together, right, 556 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:44.199 It's just one person. I'm the editor and the publisher, and I 557 00:47:44.280 --> 00:47:46.920 get it printed every month, and I happen to have a copy right here 558 00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:52.599 we can see. So this is the January twenty twenty three editions, so 559 00:47:52.679 --> 00:47:59.559 this would be the mark start year of the newsletter. It's always printed on 560 00:47:59.599 --> 00:48:05.440 the yellow sheet of paper four pages long, comes out every month and it's 561 00:48:05.480 --> 00:48:09.199 super easy to subscribe to, and there's a lot of information. As Henry 562 00:48:09.199 --> 00:48:14.719 May from Mississippi says, there's stuff in The Bigfoot Times that you just don't 563 00:48:14.760 --> 00:48:19.599 find anywhere. And so he's a long time subscriber, and I'm sure he's 564 00:48:19.599 --> 00:48:23.119 a happy subscriber as well. True story, and you can verify this, 565 00:48:23.239 --> 00:48:30.239 Daniel, I've subscribed today. So when should I expect my first as soon 566 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.719 as the mail gets there, because your mail was already dropped in the mail 567 00:48:32.880 --> 00:48:37.719 a couple of hours ago. Oh wow, so I'm already about to get 568 00:48:37.760 --> 00:48:43.000 man, that's awesome. We have another question, is there a digital version 569 00:48:43.239 --> 00:48:47.320 of it? At the present time, there's no digital version of The Bigfoot 570 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:52.760 Times. But as time goes on, because people have requested back issues, 571 00:48:53.519 --> 00:49:00.719 we're going to digitize them and or make them available in a digital fashion for 572 00:49:00.840 --> 00:49:06.079 people to have. And so that's in the works. But there's I'm a 573 00:49:06.159 --> 00:49:10.239 one horse shop, so everything that gets done is by one person alone. 574 00:49:10.840 --> 00:49:17.239 So between publishing the newsletter, working nine to five as a union license electrician, 575 00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.239 and then working on my new book, I've got my hands full. 576 00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:28.440 Yes, you do, because we were talking briefly before we came on, 577 00:49:28.599 --> 00:49:32.079 and you're coming up on nine hundreds of these things that you do a month, 578 00:49:32.239 --> 00:49:37.599 right, Yeah, So I'm I am literally an expert at folding paper, 579 00:49:37.800 --> 00:49:43.000 suffing them in an envelope and getting a stamp on and getting everything else 580 00:49:43.079 --> 00:49:46.920 on. I do it very quick, and yeah, it's it takes a 581 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:53.559 little bit the whole. Once the newsletters printed, it takes about another solid 582 00:49:53.679 --> 00:50:00.599 two days between work to get them all folded stuff mailed out. And we 583 00:50:00.719 --> 00:50:08.159 got a membership all over the world. The state that has the most memberships 584 00:50:08.199 --> 00:50:12.239 as a state of Ohio. For some reason, it's not Washington, it's 585 00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:16.360 not Oregon, it's not California, it's Ohio. That's interesting. I find 586 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:22.599 that very interesting too. And I've only been to the Ohio Bigfoot conference one 587 00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:25.239 time, picked up quite a bit of memberships there and they're still going strong. 588 00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:30.000 I don't know what it is about Ohio, but they love the newsletter, 589 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:35.000 and so I never piss anyone off in Ohio. And in terms of 590 00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:38.960 worldwide, it seems like the UK is the number one place that they get 591 00:50:39.000 --> 00:50:46.000 take the newsletter. Wow, really wow, So Ohio they love their grassmen 592 00:50:46.079 --> 00:50:50.920 out there. Huh, I guess they do, because the membership there is 593 00:50:50.960 --> 00:50:54.559 bigger than Washington State. It's bigger than Oregon, it's bigger than California, 594 00:50:54.639 --> 00:51:00.320 and you would expect the opposite, but Ohio, Franks number one, it's 595 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:06.119 it's just one of those things. I'm gonna pup this back up here so 596 00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:12.079 that people can see exactly how they can get their subscription. And it's what 597 00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:15.280 less than twenty two bucks for the year, Is that right, Daniel? 598 00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:21.039 That's correct. Just go to Bigfoot Times dot net and you could get your 599 00:51:21.039 --> 00:51:27.679 own membership. What I think is the most impressive It isn't just the over 600 00:51:27.719 --> 00:51:30.840 a quarter of a century of one man doing this by himself. That's impressive 601 00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:37.880 enough, but the fact that it's lasted this long in the age that we're 602 00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:42.480 in, the age of the Internet. Everyone is digital. You got you 603 00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:45.159 got your encyclopedia in your hand at all times. You can look up whatever 604 00:51:45.199 --> 00:51:51.239 you want at any time. The people still choose to pay you to send 605 00:51:51.280 --> 00:51:55.079 them four pieces of paper every month so that they How awesome is that? 606 00:51:55.400 --> 00:52:00.400 Yeah? That is a very interesting point because we are the being in a 607 00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:07.159 digital age where everything's accessible on a laptop or your phone and instead people want 608 00:52:07.159 --> 00:52:10.280 to get a real piece of paper in the mail. And for twenty five 609 00:52:10.360 --> 00:52:15.320 years this has been happening and I'm just delighted to be the person behind it. 610 00:52:16.679 --> 00:52:21.480 You're doing something right, manly. How should I say if if you've 611 00:52:21.480 --> 00:52:23.840 done it for a quarter of century and it's still going that, yes, 612 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:31.519 you must have the right ingredients. Definitely, absolutely, definitely, all right, 613 00:52:31.599 --> 00:52:35.239 Lisa, you got anything else? I don't want to keep Daniel. 614 00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:38.000 I have a million questions, but I think we should just bringing back for 615 00:52:38.039 --> 00:52:45.840 another time because I've just been sitting here listening and it's amazing. Yeah. 616 00:52:45.920 --> 00:52:47.039 Like I said, Daniel, I don't want to keep y'all. Not. 617 00:52:50.360 --> 00:52:55.519 My closing statement is that I've investigated for a good part of my life and 618 00:52:55.559 --> 00:53:01.119 it's my opinion that what we call bigfoot is a living species here in North 619 00:53:01.159 --> 00:53:07.679 America that is extremely rare. It's not or it's not mythology, but biological 620 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:12.559 reality. That's my opinion. Yeah, And there is one thing. The 621 00:53:12.639 --> 00:53:15.519 question is did want to ask you? You you know, in doing the 622 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:19.679 big Foot towns all these years, you do a Bigfooter of the Year. 623 00:53:19.840 --> 00:53:23.280 You give an award each year how long have you been doing that since the 624 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:30.679 start? And surprisingly Don Keating from Ohio was the first big Footer of the 625 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:37.039 Year and so that was nineteen ninety eight December of nineteen ninety eight, and 626 00:53:37.920 --> 00:53:42.800 at the time he was younger, but he was just on fire and he 627 00:53:42.880 --> 00:53:46.840 had a great big foot meet there in Ohio every year. So he is 628 00:53:46.880 --> 00:53:52.400 one of the legendary players of bigfooting from the state of Ohio. And then 629 00:53:52.960 --> 00:54:01.119 coincidentally, every year has always been a male. And in two thousand nineteen, 630 00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:05.360 people people thought, well, he's just going to pick another guy, 631 00:54:05.400 --> 00:54:08.320 another guy, another guy, another guy, because he's a guy and big 632 00:54:08.320 --> 00:54:15.360 footings for guys. But in two thousand nineteen b Mills b Ea Mills from 633 00:54:15.599 --> 00:54:21.440 the state of Ohio was the first person, first woman ever to pick up 634 00:54:21.480 --> 00:54:24.559 the title big Footer of the Year. Wow, she broke the glass ceiling. 635 00:54:24.679 --> 00:54:29.119 And I'm very delighted that she did. And it's just like, so 636 00:54:29.760 --> 00:54:34.199 I never had any discrimination going on it just a woman had never risen to 637 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.920 that point. And then finally she did it. Yeah, and I don't 638 00:54:37.920 --> 00:54:39.480 know how many people that would argue with that. She I just think so 639 00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:45.159 many women, I don't know maybe are intimidated to get into this or they're 640 00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:46.880 looked at as like, oh, you know, like I tell Wayne, 641 00:54:46.920 --> 00:54:52.880 I was a closeted big footter, you know for a long time because you 642 00:54:52.000 --> 00:54:55.679 just kind of do you really believe in that? You know, you get 643 00:54:55.719 --> 00:55:01.519 that stigma kind and I think women are just afraid to really come out and 644 00:55:02.079 --> 00:55:07.039 dive into the investigations and the research, and it is it's kind of like 645 00:55:07.079 --> 00:55:10.880 a boys club, you know, Stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to Sea 646 00:55:10.920 --> 00:55:19.719 will be right back after these messages a little bit. But there's there's there's 647 00:55:19.760 --> 00:55:22.880 some women that are really out there hitting it hard. So yeah, Jolly 648 00:55:23.280 --> 00:55:29.039 Covington, Montana from Texas. Yes, stop on big trips every year. 649 00:55:29.159 --> 00:55:32.559 So that's very commendable activity. Oh yeah, I wish I could do the 650 00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:38.920 same, but someone's got to pay the bills in my household. We got 651 00:55:38.960 --> 00:55:43.800 a question here. I already told you I was gonna let you go, 652 00:55:43.800 --> 00:55:46.039 and I apologize, Daniel, Okay, I did want to get this one 653 00:55:46.320 --> 00:55:51.599 in right here from doctor John baron Chog. What does the criteria used to 654 00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:58.719 evaluate who gets the pride? There's no set criteria, but there is it's 655 00:55:58.760 --> 00:56:04.880 something that the person has done that's original over the top, that distinguishes them 656 00:56:05.119 --> 00:56:09.280 from the path and say, for instance, in twenty nineteen, it was 657 00:56:09.320 --> 00:56:14.760 not just finding tracks for b mills, but it was the documentation of the 658 00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:20.519 evidence that became very important. So anybody could see tracks, but that level 659 00:56:20.559 --> 00:56:25.199 of documentation. Not only that, but from the state of Ohio, the 660 00:56:25.239 --> 00:56:30.880 track ways that she has collected, there's nothing that even comes close. I 661 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:37.679 mean, she has foster of Paris castings that would rival castings from the Pacific 662 00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:43.239 Northwest. And then to top that off, the castings that she has of 663 00:56:43.320 --> 00:56:49.360 some of the footprints have what we call dermal ridges on the toes, which 664 00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:52.840 makes it even more impressive. And she brought all of this to life. 665 00:56:52.920 --> 00:57:00.559 It was her investigative abilities, it was her dime everything else that did all 666 00:57:00.559 --> 00:57:04.159 of this. And whether she was a woman or a man, it doesn't 667 00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:08.400 matter. It was her work, very unique, very original. And so 668 00:57:08.599 --> 00:57:14.679 yeah, that there's no set criteria is the answer that. Yeah, that 669 00:57:15.079 --> 00:57:21.320 was a really good question I asked you. I started this line of questioning 670 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:29.239 for one reason. You are a very respected researcher yourself, and you've gotten 671 00:57:29.320 --> 00:57:34.800 to talk to some of the greatest ever of all time, and you put 672 00:57:34.800 --> 00:57:38.079 out this this newsletter every year where you picked the best in your opinion, 673 00:57:38.880 --> 00:57:43.480 and if you don't want to answer, that's bond in your opinion, Who 674 00:57:43.559 --> 00:57:47.360 is the greatest researcher who has done the most for the subject of a bigfoot 675 00:57:47.400 --> 00:57:53.199 research well to date my opinion, I would probably have to say John Greene, 676 00:57:54.079 --> 00:58:00.280 who passed away in two thou sixteen as a newspaper journalist, and the 677 00:58:00.320 --> 00:58:06.719 books that he published he kind of was able to categorize at everything instead of 678 00:58:06.760 --> 00:58:13.639 this stories from the backwoods that he was trying to make better sense of it, 679 00:58:13.679 --> 00:58:19.119 that kind of from an anthropological point of view, that it has certain 680 00:58:19.199 --> 00:58:25.360 behavioral characteristics and these are the reports and etc. So I would probably have 681 00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:30.039 to take my hat off to John green But by the same token, in 682 00:58:30.159 --> 00:58:35.920 terms of best visual evidence, no one can stand next to Roger Patterson. 683 00:58:36.440 --> 00:58:42.960 He's alone in that category. So green never got any footage, but still 684 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:52.719 the amount of data that he accumulated prior to the Internet becoming widespread is very, 685 00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:57.519 very impressive. Yeah, I would say John Green, Roger Patterson, 686 00:58:58.360 --> 00:59:02.480 and I would not leave out Ivan Sanderson, who published this Mammoth book in 687 00:59:02.639 --> 00:59:08.679 nineteen sixty one, long before you had any of those tools to do anything 688 00:59:08.679 --> 00:59:13.840 with. I mean, it was all done on a manual typewriter. Oh 689 00:59:13.920 --> 00:59:19.360 yeah, all right, yeah, I agree, I would agree with those 690 00:59:19.840 --> 00:59:23.159 elections. All right, Daniel, I'm gonna let you go, buddy. 691 00:59:23.360 --> 00:59:28.159 I didn't mean to keep you this much over an hour, but let me 692 00:59:28.280 --> 00:59:30.960 let me just thank you for taking the time to yes to come and hang 693 00:59:30.960 --> 00:59:36.880 out. I've been a fan of yours for a while and I've really enjoyed 694 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:40.039 getting to sit with you. I appreciate it. Me thank you for having 695 00:59:40.039 --> 00:59:44.719 me. And let's hope that within my lifetime at least that maybe we'll have 696 00:59:44.920 --> 00:59:50.280 some concrete physical evidence that would be yes, yes, sir, yes, 697 00:59:50.280 --> 00:59:52.800 sir. All right, you enjoyed the rest of your day out in sunny 698 00:59:52.800 --> 00:59:57.039 California, sir. Okay, Well, thank you, and I'm tuning out. 699 00:59:57.400 --> 01:00:01.239 Bye bye, bye bye, thank you. They say you don't gotta 700 01:00:01.400 --> 01:00:09.840 go home, but you can't stay here, and no, I don't want 701 01:00:09.880 --> 01:00:38.239 to be the line. Were all out time, this tribe, that time, 702 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:45.320 everything calling right back right back, joy for me and try to stay 703 01:00:45.599 --> 01:01:36.119 right now. I'm coming right away. Sin of back, blood, cultural 704 01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:37.519 pain, comfortable