WEBVTT

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Everyone open your bibles this morning to
Hebrews eleven one. Now, faith is

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being sure of what we hope,
for being convinced of what we do not

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see. Really, I mean,
I'm all up for being optimistic, But

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are we just supposed to believe everything
that said to us? Because we're supposed

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to believe everything that isn't observable and
other verses they tell us to live by

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faith and not by sight. So
is the Bible condoning living in a fantasy?

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I don't think we should really live
by faith. I mean, the

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evidence is going to lead where it
leads. And if something isn't able to

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be detected by realistic means, then
what's the point in believing it? If

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you think that we should live by
faith and that we should believe in things

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that we can't see, call us
because the show is starting. Now,

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welcome to talk. He Then,
today is Sunday, August six, twenty

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twenty three. I'm your host,
Doctor Ben, and joining me today is

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the one and only Christy Powell.
How are you doing today, Christy?

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I'm doing great. I had a
very rare and precious weekend home alone to

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myself, and so I am well
rested and shot out of a cannon this

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morning. Let's do it. Amazing. I'm super excited to be on a

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show with you, and I can't
believe it's August already. I feel like

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part of this year just flew by. I mean, maybe it's just me,

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but it still feels like June to
me. I gotta say, this

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summer is dragging on here in Texas
world really everywhere where we're having historically record

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breaking heat. Climate change is a
real right. I guess this summer has

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felt very long for me, is
what I'm trying to get to. I'm

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quite ready for the fall. Yeah. Oh, I'm an autumn person as

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well. But hopefully it's funny seeing
our different perspectives here. Maybe I'm just

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so busy. But if anybody wants
to talk with us about the weather or

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anything, just getting plased on calling
and talk about the weather. But this

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is a Collin show and we have
open lines, so if you want to

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call in, now is a great
time talk. Heathen is a product of

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the Atheist Community of Austin five O
one c three nonprofit organization dedicated to the

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promotion of atheism, critical thinking,
secular humanism, and the separation of religion

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and government. And like I said, talking than is a call in show

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and we have open lines, so
get your calls in at five one two

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nine one nine two four two or
form your computer at tiny dot cc slash

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call t H And what happens a
lot of times if people will call in

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near the end of the show and
we don't get as much time to talk

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with you. So if you really
have a burning question you want to ask,

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call in asap because the sooner we
get you on the show, probably

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the more time we'll have to have
that discussion. But in the meantime,

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we do have our famous segment talk
Heathen to me and I want to find

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out what you all said in the
comments for last week's question. So last

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week we asked you wrong answers only
why is God hiding from us? And

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our top three answers were pretty good. So in third place from this past

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week was Jay Ray says, don't
predators always hide from their prey? Which

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this is a great one seeing as
kind of what we're what we're going to

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be talking about in a little bit. But what are your thoughts on this

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one? Christie? I mean it
hits. I appreciate a little bit of

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snark early in the day, like
at the beginning of the broadcast, I'm

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here for it. And number two
is Jason Katz that says God isn't hiding,

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he just goes to a different universe
in Canada, you wouldn't know him.

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Solid work. I love this one. The your girlfriend in Canada that

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right, she couldn't come. She's
busy modeling. She she could make it

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to this middle school dance. Yeah, I promise she's absolutely real. Just

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she lives in Canada and goes to
a different school and all that. And

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in first place we have Scottish hear
saying why is God hiding from us?

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He owes Mary two thousand years and
child support? He holy ghosted her.

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There are a multiple multitude joke right, like, there are multiple puns in

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here and I love this. Any
other thoughts on this one only that this

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is great work and I really appreciate
everything that the audience puts together on these.

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Has been a really fun segment for
the last several months. Oh yeah,

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the creativity in the comment section is
absolutely amazing. And if you have

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some humor or some snark that you
want us to read out on the air,

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if you're one of the top three
chosen from this next week's talk Hey,

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than to me segment, then your
name and your comment will be read

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on the screen. So the prompt
for next week is what is a prayer

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request that would raise eyebrows in a
place of worship? So if you haven't

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answer to this question, put your
best answer below in the comment section,

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not in the side chat, because
we won't read it there. In the

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comment section below. After this goes
uploaded after the show today and next week

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we'll reveal the top three answers.
But in the meantime, I want to

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ask Christie, what is a prayer
request that would raise eyebrows in a place

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of worship? You know, I
gotta be honest with you. I had

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a hard time coming up with anything
that I wanted to put four because my

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first thought was all of these sort
of gossipy bits, And then I realized

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that going to Christian schools and being
in the church for most of my adolescence,

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that's all prayer requests were. Anytime
you were asking other people to pray

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for something in a group setting,
it was always really just a way of

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sort of pointing the finger at you
know, Oh, my poor friend Sally

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like, can we all pray,
Dear Lord that she stopped being a terrible

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person and apologize for the things she
said to me? It was just gossipy

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bullshit. And so with that in
mind, I came up with another one,

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and then I realized, this is
an actual prayer that I used to

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pray all the damn time. But
my thought was, Dear Lord, if

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it be within your will, please
make the Bible make any amount of damn

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sense whatsoever, because that is something
I used to pray all the time.

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And yet, if you think about
it, kind of ridiculous that we would

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need some magical force to come in
and make the perfect inherent word of God

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means something right. That's absolutely true, and I think I've had similar prayers

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in the past related to that.
And I think, I mean, as

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much as we normally give very funny
answers to these kinds of questions, I

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think it's very telling just I mean, how realistic this answer is, and

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how many of us in this community
have had similar prayers like that. If

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God really wanted us to understand what
was being said to us, and if

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he cared about getting any of us
to heaven, if that's the end goal.

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Then shouldn't we have clearer instructions and
not have to wonder why none of

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it makes sense? Yeah, no, he says, You know, faith

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comes from hearing and from hearing the
word of the Lord. But I spent

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a lot of time listening to it, and apparently you also need to get

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some sort of divine intervention. You
also need to be in fellowship, Like

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there are all these things that you
have to do to make the words on

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the page make any sense. And
you know, that's the only book I've

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ever felt that way about, right, Like I've never picked up any textbook

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or any other piece of fiction or
anything else and thought to myself, if

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only the Lord would reveal to me
what these words mean, rather than you

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know, like a dictionary. Right. And that's something we hear from a

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lot of religious leaders and devout religious
practitioners, is that, like, well,

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you're just an atheist because you don't
understand this book and you haven't prayed

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for it to be revealed to you, or like you don't meet certain criteria

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for it to be revealed to you. Like, but then what's the point

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at all? Like if I don't
have a chance at all to understand what's

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being said to me, and you
need that understanding in order to be a

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believer, then why are you even
trying to convert me in that case,

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because apparently there's no chance that it's
going to happen. Yeah, no,

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fair to say. And there's no
other place in life that we use this

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skill. However, we wanted to
find faith and we want to talk about

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trust and all these different things that
can get kind of convoluted and pulled together.

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There's no aspect of my daily life
that I have to take on faith

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or pretend makes sense when it just
truly doesn't. And I think getting over

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that particular mind purdle is probably the
most problematic or challenging aspect of deconstructing your

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faith. Definitely, all very great
answers for this question this week, So

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if you have a similar answer,
or if you want to even debate in

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any of those answers, you can
do that in the comments below. And

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we I hope to see some really
good top three answer choices for next week.

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And it looks like we have a
call coming in from a theist and

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I'm very excited for this one.
So I think this kind of goes along

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a little bit with what we were
already talking about. So let's talk to

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is that Stephen or Stephen? I
want to make sure I pronounce your name

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right from Iowa. And it sounds
like you want to talk about the importance

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of faith. Stephen. Okay,
awesome, Stephen, you are live on

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Talk Heathen. What would you like
to talk about today? Well, I

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just wanted to talk about how faith
is important in the regards of like our

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identity, right as individuals. I
think that if God exists and he's real

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and he's infinite, that if we
were created in his image, that we

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have value. Right, So if
it starts there, we accept all those

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conclusions. Yeah, sure, right, And as far as the evidence is

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concerned, that's just different people's perspective
on what they see and how they how

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they grow in life and what they
like. What I see right now is

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nature, and I see things I
see beauty, right, and so certain

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things I don't think fall into the
evolutionary narrative as far as like forgiveness,

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for instance, I don't really understand
on a social construct how the evolutionary process

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can can explain things like forgiveness,
right, Oh, I can I can

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really jump into that. There's a
lot to be said there, but I

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want to not just tear apart all
of your individual premises, because you've already

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laid out four or five things that
I might disagree with. What is sort

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of the central pillar of your call, though, because rather than getting distracted

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by each plank, what is your
kind of basic conclusion that because forgiveness exist,

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like I'm talking about beautiful, there
must be a guy. Yeah,

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my world. If my worldview starts
with God, then I believe myself to

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have value and faith will then become
important. And learning how to trust something

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greater than myself, which is part
of faith, is also important because if

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you know, if I believe that
I was, you know, and I'm

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not trying to be like take this
the wrong way, but if I'm over

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an overgrown evolved bacteria, I don't
think there's any real justification for doing anything

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right or wrong. It would it
would really be kind of pointless, and

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there really there wouldn't be much purpose
to life. Right. Well, I

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I kind of wanted to jump in
and I feel like there's a false dichotomy

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happening here within kind of your initial
argument of saying that basically, like we

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can have forgiveness, we can have
faith in these things, like or we

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could or the alternative is like believing
in evolution, And it's like these are

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not really dichotomous, and there's nothing
related to evolution within our talk about faith

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and forgiveness, Like none of that
has anything to do with evolution. Like,

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can I kind of understand a little
bit what your understanding of evolution is?

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Yeah, I'll do my best to
explain it, like I do understand,

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and I do believe in evolution.
By the way, I do believe

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in it because you know, if
I believe that God is beyond you know,

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time, so it's really a process
that doesn't matter to God, but

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it was a process that we were
involved in. But I believe that,

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you know. So I've heard lots
of different um like Richard Dawkins and things

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like that try to explain how the
reason we have love and all these things

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is so that we can reproduce,
and that you know, evolution is a

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selfish process that involves survival, right, and so the only reason we care

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for each other is is for the
betterment of our survival and our reproduction.

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And I think our flawed because that's
only true. But please go ahead.

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Yeah, I think our framing is
a little bit problematic because, like,

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I primarily want to push back on
the idea that there's an intention to evolution,

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or that there's an intention to love
and an intention to these other processes,

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because I think that that adds some
bias to the equation of saying that,

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like there there is some reason for
anything. I don't think that there's

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any reason to anything, especially when
talking about evolution. It's it's a process

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and there are results, and there
are certain things that are selected for.

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But when we say selected for,
that's even a bit weird of language because

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that kind of implies that there's some
agency or intent. I don't know exactly

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what the best wording would be to
describe it, but like the it ends

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up being kind of cause and effect
might be a better way to word it,

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where it's not that it's not that
love directly was intended to have organisms

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like reproduce, but the ones that
ended up reproducing are the ones that are

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more likely to have their species survived, so therefore we're going to see more

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of that species propagate in the future. So it's not that like this was

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a desired trait. It just happened
to be what led to to the propagation

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of the species. So could there
be what I'm talking about, a social

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perspective, like how we interact with
each other and certain emotions that come from

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the kind of transcend evolution, and
one of them would be forgiveness, right,

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And so you know, like a
soldier jumping in front of somebody and

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doesn't even know them and dying,
you know, sacrifice and things like that,

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which don't really account for that particular
narrative that you know, but they've

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reason we have these processes and things
like that. Yeah, that's why I

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said it only makes sense in aggregate, Like, yes, if I were

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right now to go and jump in
front of a speeding car in order to

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protect a bunch of orphans, that
doesn't do anything to further my bloodline.

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So when we look at like one
specific individual case in that sense, it

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causes something of a problem. But
if we zoom out and think about it

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in aggregate, think about it with
any sort of like larger millions of years

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evolutionary type perspective, we recognize that
oh, okay, a species that has

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an element where they're willing to jump
in front of a car or push orphans

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out of the way, is a
species that is less likely to be devoured

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by leopards and hyenas and everything else. We have to recognize that these things

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happen in a piecemeal fashion, and
in the same way that we have these

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sort of like crude and now almost
sort of quaint and cheesy evolutionary charts where

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you see, you know, a
chimp slowly begin to walk upright, and

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eventually you get to some picture of
a caveman. We can see those same

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sorts of things when we talk about
a lot of different human emotions. Obviously,

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when we're talking about emotions and then
we're trying to analyze the behavior of

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animals who we can't actually speak to
and get a proper understanding of their consciousness,

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we want to be really mindful about
the way we anthropomorphosize, in the

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way that we project these things.
But you can see quote unquote forgiveness in

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baboon troops, in elephant colonies,
among orcas, among all kinds of big

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brained and sophisticated animals, and you
can see lower and lesser degrees of that

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as you go all the way down
the evolutionary ladder. It makes sense that

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it's any legs really come up with
a good explanation for that. But and

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I would say it would take a
lot of faith to believe that you know

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all this all this is random,
since all we've ever observed is order.

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Really because not random things happen,
and then some things happen to happen more

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often because they end up reproducing themselves. Stephen, does the lack of an

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explanation make your belief system true?
No, I just think it puts us

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in the same boat. I think
we both have to have faith. Why

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you understand? So then if we
don't understand something, why how does that?

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But even if you specifically don't understand
something, why does that then call

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for a supernatural being to be present? Like? Why? Why then are

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we jumping to faith? And instead
of just saying I don't know, yeah,

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I mean I get where you're coming
from, I would say from of

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calling God supernatural, right, I
really don't subscribe to that in a sense

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where I think God is necessary.
I think he's not supernatural. He always

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was. He's a part of nature. He's also outside of nature, right.

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It's it's a concept of the creator
of everything that we see right and

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know to be true. It's not
whatever we can imagine God can do.

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Like a lot of people think,
well, why didn't God do this and

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God do that? Well, that's
really not reality, right. What we

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see in reality is that there's a
lot of things we don't understand, like

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the infinite universe that we observe um. You know, the constants of the

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universe, which are actually pretty fine
tuned. If you actually talk to some

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scientists, if any one of those
constants were changed or deducted in any way,

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life wouldn't exist. That's not I
reject, reject that argument. Stuff

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in but just talk to some scientists. Ben, Yeah, I have to

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really see you're sitting here accusing me
of not understanding the thing that I am

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trying very patiently to slowly and gently
explain to you. I am not a

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biologist, I am not an expert
in ethology. I'm not especially qualified to

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sit here and explain evolution to you. But I understand why a sea turtle

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that lays a hundred eggs doesn't need
to have the same emotional capacity for caring

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for their young as a chimpanzee who
only has one baby maybe every five years.

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Like it makes sense that we would
end up working through these different systems,

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and we can see piecemeal how we
can go from one system to another

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system, and why one system might
propagate more effectively than another one. To

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say that we don't understand that is
just kind of lazy. You can't just

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wave your hand and say, well, it's all made up, and so

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I can make up whatever I want
to make up, right, Yeah,

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totally. I mean, I get
what you're coming from. I'm just saying

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those things we don't understand. I'm
not saying that what you just explain to

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me I don't understand. I'm saying
that there's things beyond that we still don't

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understand. And so in a hundred
years ago we greatly understood any of the

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evolutionary stuff I'm talking about, and
a hundred years before that in that yeah,

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so then in the meaning we'll have
a better understanding of ao biogenesis and

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the founding of the universe and everything
else. In the meantime, why are

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you insisting that my God isn't the
God from the Bible or the God that

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has this power or that power.
My God is just the thing that fills

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in all this stuff I don't understand. I mean, what does that even

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mean if I don't understand it,
therefore God, I mean yeah, in

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a in a sense, right,
I mean, it's the only explanations that's

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never observed, nothing creating something and
way of describing something you don't understand.

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Hey, Stephen, how many universes
have you seen created? Okay, Stephen,

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how many universes have I don't believe. I don't believe it. Believe

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in a multiverse, I don't know. So hold on, hold on,

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I've I've got a specific reason why
I'm asking these questions. Um So,

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how many universes do we do we
know of? For sure, we only

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know of this one one? But
right, so, so how many universe?

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So if if we're doing if we're
talking about probability, like I kind

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of want to go back to the
thing that you said, like if one

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thing was off, then life wouldn't
exist. I reject your fine tuning claims.

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But there's a big problem with your
arguments here in that when we're doing

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any kind of study, right,
like, like, do you understand statistical

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power? Does that statement mean anything? It does? But you can elaborate

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if you like. Okay, so
let me let me explain a little bit.

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So Let's say let's say I have
a six sided die, right,

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and I roll it one time and
the number comes up to be six,

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And I say, well, the
number six, and that's the only thing

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that can that can be rolled.
If I roll this die, it's going

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to be six. Because I've only
seen it be a six. You probably

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look at me and you'd say,
wait, hold on, you need to

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roll it more than one time in
order to see what other options you're going

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to get. A's like no,
but but I rolled it this one time

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and I rolled the six, Like, so here, what happens with the

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universe? Like, we have one
instance of all this happening, right,

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we have an equals one. So
can we even make any determinations about probability

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based on that? I'd argue,
no, no, we really can't.

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And um, this isn't a case
necessarily where we can just reroll the die

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because we have no power over just
rerolling the universe and seeing what's going to

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happen. Right, So the most
we can do at this point is would

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require face. Well, we can
hypotheses, we can hypothesize, but we

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cannot draw any conclusions because we cannot
determine statistical significance. The more times you're

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able to roll that die, the
more accurately are able to determine probability.

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So my argument here is that you
cannot determine probability based on the data that

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we're given. So so these arguments
of well, this is the way the

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universe would be if X, YC
change, those are all hypothesis. We

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don't have a way to test them. We have no way to determine the

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actual experimental probability. Like, do
you understand that there's a difference between theoretical

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science and experimental science? No,
I totally, yeah, I do,

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and that fact right, So so
we can't. So it's kind of disingenuous

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to say that because I disagree with
this theoretical science, then this is what

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the experimental outcome would be, because
we don't know, and that's as far

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as that's as far as we can
get. And so like a lot of

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the arguments you're making just don't really
have grounds to be able to make conclusions

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from. Right, I made the
conclusion right because of my faith, But

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it's like I understright, so don't
so I don't think you can make that

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conclusion. So that's the problem you're
starting with a conclusion and instead of fine

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if you don't believe, right,
No, So why are you starting with

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the conclusion? Stephan? Are you
listening to me? Why are you starting

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with the conclusion instead of starting with
the question? Why are you starting with

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the conclusion already? I'm a I'm
a theist. I have a conclusion.

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You know I have. But why
did you start? Why do you do

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you start with a conclusion for anything
else in your life? Do you just

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assume things and then operate based on
your assumption? Was I originally thought that

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there wasn't a god? Actually for
a very long time. I'm not going

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to get into my personal life.
Well what so, what experience does that

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have happened? So what convinced you
that? I'm sure? On the radio

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station if I don't want to hear
about my testimony, but I can tell

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you. You know, I don't
necessarily want your testimony, but I want

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your evidence. Like, what convinced
you that this is the correct conclusion?

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Okay, so I'll give you the
shortest possible. Um, I didn't believe

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in God. I had my grandfather
was a street preacher like evangelist. If

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no one else in my family was
Christian. He gave me a Bible,

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he said, read it. Okay. I put it in the seat next

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to me on my vehicle the day
before. I said, okay, God,

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if you're real, just reveal yourself
to me, said a little small

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prayer. I didn't really believe it
was going to happen. I was actually

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on my way back from the strip
club with my brother, because that's what

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he did on his free time.
He'd like to take me there. I

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was driving home and the ignission went
off on my car. I pulled off

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to the side of the road.
Car started smoking, got out immediately,

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fire all the way through the front. My entire car burned up completely.

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The metal was bent. That's how
hot it was. Okay, everything in

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my car burned, including the seat
that my Bible was sitting on and my

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golf clubs. That's how hot it
was. I went back to the vehicle,

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and after the sheriff pulled up,
I grabbed my Bible and it was

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the only thing that survived. It
was sitting on a metal heat. I

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went up to the sheriff and I
told him what I could. This was

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the only thing I could selfish,
and then I asked him his name,

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and he said Officer Gentile. So
after that point I had I had a

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couple of things, you know,
I started to think, well, this

348
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is probably a huge coincident, But
there was a lot of things that happened

349
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after that that convinced me that it
wasn't. So that's why I decided to

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turn my life over. And so
me and my grandfather started having some Bible

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studies and that's what changed me ultimately. So yeah, that's the end of

352
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my story. Though I might have
already gotten locked, I'm not no,

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no note at all. I mean, really, what I'm hearing you say

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is not at all dissiwhere from what
Ben was pointing out about, you know,

355
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the law of large numbers and just
basic statistics. I'm glad that you

356
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were safe in that situation, but
it kind of feels like you said a

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prayer to God one time you rolled
the die and you ended up landing on

358
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a natural twenty. But that doesn't
mean that every time you roll it you're

359
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going to end up with that same
result. And I would even challenge you

360
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to think back. Were there times
where you kind of thought, well,

361
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maybe there is a God. Did
you ever say any sort of prayer ever

362
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about Hey, God, if you're
real, come and show me or whatever

363
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else? And were those answered?
I mean, when you start looking at

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the selection bias and everything else,
it does feel really thin. And I

365
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appreciate the value and the significance of
a personal story like that. I'm certainly

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not trying to take that away from
you, but it doesn't seem like a

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very reasonable or rational way to gather
truth. Yeah, I mean, you're

368
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right, like I said, if
it was a genermous coincidence that the officer's

369
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name was Officer Gentile and that,
you know, my Bible on a metal

370
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seat, and usually I understand the
process of physics, and like you know,

371
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things books burn, right, especially
if it's on a metal seat that's

372
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been burned. That just got me. I'm sorry. I was just like,

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God is God is real? Like
if I don't look at this as

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God telling me something? And then
and then I started doing my own studies

375
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and that was it. But yeah, I mean, we don't have really

376
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any anything else. Yeah, go
ahead, Yeah, which which god did

377
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you pray to? Well? I
pray the God of the Bible. Which

378
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God of the Bible because my grandfather's
while okay, so specifically the Christian God.

379
00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:37.039
Um, so I've heard similar stories
from Muslims. And why should I

380
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believe your story that God would specifically
God was say saving you and specifically the

381
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Christian God was saving you, versus
a Muslim friend that says that Allah had

382
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saved them from uh something similar.
Yeah, Well, technically, um,

383
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Muslims, and I'm not discrediting them, they do believe in the God of

384
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the Bible. At least they subscribe
to the God of the of the Bible

385
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and the Old Book, if you
understand that to a Muslim, Yeah,

386
00:26:00.359 --> 00:26:03.839
but they they they would probably disagree
with you, Christie is saying in the

387
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Bible, Well, they would not
believe, They would not agree that that

388
00:26:07.319 --> 00:26:12.359
Christ is God. So there's at
least some distinct differences between your God,

389
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your God, and theirs. And
many Muslims would disagree that you that you're

390
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following the same God. In in
the fact that the gods, even looking

391
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at the Old Testament, are interpreted
to be very different. The character of

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each God is very distinctly different.
But even even let's let's say if I

393
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had if I had a Hindu friend
that said that they were saved by one

394
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of their gods, why should I
believe you and not them. Well,

395
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I mean I can't obviously can't answer
that. Um, I don't know.

396
00:26:41.319 --> 00:26:45.799
I respect Hindu culture. I don't
think that God came to die to take

397
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:48.200
away people's culture. One. You
know, I don't believe that he ever

398
00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.440
said anything about our culture. We
still put up Christmas trees and that's pagan,

399
00:26:52.559 --> 00:26:53.839
right, It's just it's just our
culture. It's what we do.

400
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But if somebody said that what God's
concerned about. But if somebody gave a

401
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:03.480
very similar story to you and said
that they were convinced they weren't a Hindu

402
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:07.559
and then they became a Hindu because
they believed they were saved from some accident

403
00:27:07.720 --> 00:27:12.200
because of this deity, would you
say that their belief was correct and that's

404
00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:15.319
a good reason to then become a
Hindu. I mean, if if you

405
00:27:15.440 --> 00:27:21.519
propose, if someone proposed that to
me, I wouldn't personally because it wasn't

406
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:25.240
my own testimony. I don't know
how i'd I'd probably fifty fifty as far

407
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:27.240
as like what I believed, right, But they can't. Your story and

408
00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:30.400
their story can't both be true,
right? Sure? No, do I

409
00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:34.880
believe that forces out there and angelic
beings that are called themselves God, like

410
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:40.759
Zeus and Thor. The Bible talks
about like idle spirits. Yeah, so

411
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.440
you think that some people's beliefs are
false, some people's faiths are false.

412
00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:48.519
I would say that the entity they
believe in maybe real, right, but

413
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.559
then they create a story based on
their own spirit like Thor, which would

414
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:56.920
be like wrath. Right, So
how do we know things like that?

415
00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.920
So slep, And how do we
know that yours isn't one of those false

416
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:03.839
ones? Well? That see that. Now we're getting into the source,

417
00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:07.119
right, Like we're getting right to
the beginning of how why No, so

418
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:11.240
we're getting into we're getting into evidence. I need some evidence. Yeah,

419
00:28:11.279 --> 00:28:15.880
because like again, people can say
whatever they want. They can say that

420
00:28:15.920 --> 00:28:18.880
they believe in a certain things,
like and they can say that their story

421
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:22.680
is a certain way. And I'm
not I'm not discounting your experience, but

422
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:30.079
I question whether your interpretation of your
experience is correct. Right. That's that's

423
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:33.359
Old Testament, and I know you've
probably read it, right if you look

424
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.319
at all the stories in the Old
Testament, I mean literally from Abraham sacrificing

425
00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:40.279
his promise son or at least going
to sacrifice promise son. A picture of

426
00:28:40.359 --> 00:28:44.079
the father sacrificing his son. You
have the passover, the blood of the

427
00:28:44.119 --> 00:28:47.960
Lamb's put over. You have Psalms
twenty two, which talks about you know,

428
00:28:48.200 --> 00:28:51.920
I'm poured out like water. They
pierced my hands on my feet.

429
00:28:51.920 --> 00:28:55.880
This was written like six hundred years
before the act of crucifixion was even a

430
00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.119
thing. People have been murdering each
other forever. This is not exclusive to

431
00:29:00.799 --> 00:29:06.759
like the Old Testament or the New
Testamenting my hands on my feet, that's

432
00:29:06.759 --> 00:29:11.039
pretty detailed, right, It's detailed. So people have known people. People

433
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:15.880
have known how to kill each other
for a long time, and often piercing

434
00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:18.880
with sharp objects. That yeah,
and part of it. Multiple cultures have

435
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:25.640
found like the easiest ways to kill
people and the most torturous ways to kill

436
00:29:25.720 --> 00:29:29.440
people. I'm not convinced that like
this is a good reason to say that

437
00:29:29.480 --> 00:29:33.680
your specific religion is the correct one
because they knew how to murder people in

438
00:29:33.720 --> 00:29:37.079
a certain way, or like they
talked about murdering people in a certain way.

439
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:41.039
That's not convincing to me. That
really stuffing it all comes down to

440
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.559
post hoc rationalization. Every single argument
that you have made so far, whether

441
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.640
we're talking about the fine tuning of
the universe, the power of forgiveness,

442
00:29:48.680 --> 00:29:52.519
the beauty of trees, the safety
of the Bible. I mean, everything

443
00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:57.160
that you've described has been well,
I saw a thing, So let me

444
00:29:57.440 --> 00:30:03.720
go back and try to explain that
thing using this Jesus model. And I

445
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.160
would just encourage you to think a
little bit bigger, to realize that like

446
00:30:07.400 --> 00:30:14.880
one instance of an occurrence, one
event somehow creates a narrative. You're just

447
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.000
filling everything that you don't understand or
don't like one with the word God.

448
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.240
And yeah, that's valid. I'll
let you have the last word. I

449
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.440
haven't heard anything new or interesting other
than I had an experience, and I

450
00:30:26.480 --> 00:30:30.279
think God is the only way that
it makes sense. And I would say

451
00:30:30.279 --> 00:30:33.680
to you that no one else is
going to be compelled by that. Okay,

452
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:36.960
I would disagree on that. And
on a particular level, I will

453
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:38.839
say this that there's one thing that
is true in the Bible, one thing,

454
00:30:40.640 --> 00:30:42.480
and that is that love is sacrifice. And I don't know if you

455
00:30:42.519 --> 00:30:45.960
have a family or not. Okay, that's not exclusive to the Bible,

456
00:30:47.000 --> 00:30:52.680
though right noticive to the whole point
is it's not exclusive. No, I

457
00:30:52.720 --> 00:30:56.119
would agree with that, but it
is the fundamental principle of Christianity if you

458
00:30:56.240 --> 00:31:00.480
if you really dig into the gospel
and what that is, right, I

459
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:03.960
mean, depend on how you interpreted
and everything else. We talked to different

460
00:31:03.960 --> 00:31:07.799
people every week who have really different
ideas of what actually is or says or

461
00:31:07.839 --> 00:31:11.640
does. Yeah, I mean,
I'm just saying based on personal experience.

462
00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:15.240
If you live long enough, you
realize that love isn't just butterflies and rainbows,

463
00:31:15.319 --> 00:31:18.920
right, It's sacrifice ultimately, And
so the display on the cross was

464
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:22.480
just that it was sacrifice, and
God displayed the highest point of love to

465
00:31:22.599 --> 00:31:26.839
us because He's sacrificed for us.
And I think that's that's good. Good.

466
00:31:26.559 --> 00:31:30.599
Yeah, I mean Jesus spent a
bad weekend and then went up to

467
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:33.559
heaven and to live with the fathers. I don't know how much. I

468
00:31:33.599 --> 00:31:37.200
mean, Yeah, cursificions like not
a pleasant process by any means, But

469
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:41.839
there are plenty of like humans who've
been crucified and have stayed dead after that.

470
00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:48.279
Um, So I don't know if
Jesus really gave more than anybody else,

471
00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:51.160
Like, it seems like he got
a pretty hefty reward for all of

472
00:31:51.160 --> 00:31:53.920
that, But there are plenty of
normal people that are like still going to

473
00:31:55.400 --> 00:32:00.000
be executed and die and stay dead
and in a lot of Christians worldview,

474
00:32:00.119 --> 00:32:02.240
going to hell afterwards. It seems
like a lot of people are getting a

475
00:32:02.279 --> 00:32:07.480
worse deal than Jesus. So I
don't know how much he actually sacrificed.

476
00:32:07.880 --> 00:32:09.799
Right, Certainly, he's not the
only person who have ever loved or the

477
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:15.480
only person who've ever sacrificed. I
don't see any supernatural here. And Steph

478
00:32:15.519 --> 00:32:17.559
and I don't mean to talk over
you or to keep bumping into each other,

479
00:32:17.599 --> 00:32:22.400
but just to say I haven't heard
anything new, I haven't heard anything

480
00:32:22.519 --> 00:32:27.039
compelling, and I certainly wish you
the best, but I would also very

481
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.680
much ask you to lift your eyes
up to the horizon a little bit,

482
00:32:30.759 --> 00:32:34.839
see the world a little bit more
broadly, and stop looking at that single

483
00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.799
role of the diet. And that
I think I'll go ahead, Stephan,

484
00:32:37.960 --> 00:32:39.119
and I'm not yeah, I mean, I'll take your advice. I respect

485
00:32:39.119 --> 00:32:43.599
your guys's opinion. I have no
animosity. I think that you guys post

486
00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:45.319
some good points, and so yeah, I mean we'll leave it at that.

487
00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.839
I appreciate the time though. Yeah, and Stephan, I'd love for

488
00:32:47.880 --> 00:32:52.640
you to call back in sometime.
I think you are very kind caller,

489
00:32:52.920 --> 00:32:57.079
and none of us yelled at each
other, and I think that was.

490
00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.720
While we still disagree on a lot
of things, I do think this was

491
00:33:00.759 --> 00:33:04.279
a worthwhile discussion to have and I
would like to have more discussions with you

492
00:33:04.279 --> 00:33:07.039
in the future. So I hope
you'd be willing to call in again sometimes.

493
00:33:07.119 --> 00:33:08.400
Yeah, sounds good, we'll do. Yeah, have a good rest

494
00:33:08.440 --> 00:33:15.200
here. All right. Well,
I'm getting hyped up after that first call.

495
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:17.119
I know we have some other colors
coming, but I'm very, very

496
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:22.680
excited to tell you all about the
upcoming annual Bat Cruise on Saturday, August

497
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:28.319
twenty six, twenty twenty three,
and we'd like to tell you. Unfortunately,

498
00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:30.519
also, I guess it's kind of
kind of cool. We got a

499
00:33:30.559 --> 00:33:34.440
lot of people showing up, but
tickets have sold out, so you can't

500
00:33:34.640 --> 00:33:37.480
Unfortunately, you can't buy tickets at
this time, but there's still a chance

501
00:33:37.519 --> 00:33:40.920
that you can join us. We
have a wait list and you can sign

502
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:45.039
up for that. In case there
are any people that cancel, you could

503
00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:47.640
take that spot and get on the
Bat Cruise. So to join the wait

504
00:33:47.720 --> 00:33:52.640
list. You can go to tiny
dot cc slash bat Cruise and if you

505
00:33:52.799 --> 00:33:55.920
already have tickets, you will get
to join the ACA or a fun summer

506
00:33:55.960 --> 00:34:00.920
evening on the water conversing with line
like minded freethinkers like Forest Valki, j

507
00:34:01.079 --> 00:34:05.359
Mike, Christy Powell who's sitting right
next to me. Hey, I made

508
00:34:05.400 --> 00:34:08.480
the Marquis and other hosts and crew
from our various shows. So if you

509
00:34:08.519 --> 00:34:12.199
want to get in on that action, but you don't have tickets yet,

510
00:34:12.239 --> 00:34:14.960
you will need to get on the
waitlist. I'm sorry you weren't able to

511
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:17.760
get your tickets in time, but
we do this every year, so if

512
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:22.360
you're not able to go this year, I highly recommend getting on those tickets

513
00:34:22.360 --> 00:34:25.599
as soon as they open for next
year because it really really is a great

514
00:34:25.639 --> 00:34:29.960
time. I'd also like to talk
about some other ways that you can support

515
00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:34.239
Talk Heathen and the ACA. We
have some merch and especially we have a

516
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:38.280
new limited edition t shirt that says
Satan the Lesser of two Evil and you

517
00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:44.239
can get this one by visiting tiny
dot cc slash merch ACA to get them

518
00:34:44.480 --> 00:34:47.679
right now, and please like the
video, subscribe to the channel, enable

519
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:52.239
notifications, and comment below on your
favorite caller. Become a channel member by

520
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:57.440
clicking the join button below the video. You'll get custom chat emotes and you'll

521
00:34:57.480 --> 00:35:00.079
help perpetuate the mission of Talk Heathen
and the eighth this community of Austin.

522
00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:04.159
You can also send a super chat, and we've got a couple that I'm

523
00:35:04.199 --> 00:35:07.440
going to read out in just a
second, So you can ask a question

524
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:09.760
or give a comment in a super
chat and we will get to as many

525
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:14.800
as we can on the air live
during the show. So if you want

526
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:17.480
to ask a question but don't feel
like you want to call in, you

527
00:35:17.519 --> 00:35:21.239
can send a super chat and get
those in. So we've got a couple

528
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:25.559
right now from Greg Markowski sends five
dollars. Thank you, Greg. Again,

529
00:35:25.880 --> 00:35:31.119
I think the most frequent super chatter
every week still goes to Greg Markowski.

530
00:35:31.239 --> 00:35:35.559
I will I will be making a
plaque for you out of a paper

531
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:38.239
plate or something in the future that
we can put up the Actually I actually

532
00:35:38.280 --> 00:35:42.119
think I might do that, send
it to the studio and if you ever

533
00:35:42.159 --> 00:35:45.239
happen to be at the library and
can come pick it up, that'll be

534
00:35:45.320 --> 00:35:47.800
for you or whoever takes your place
as the most frequent super chatter on the

535
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:52.559
channel, but Greg says, thanks
guy to you make my Sunday chores go

536
00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:53.880
easier. And I'm glad that we
could be here for you. Greg,

537
00:35:53.960 --> 00:35:58.239
always happy to see you in the
side chat. And we have another one

538
00:35:58.320 --> 00:36:01.679
from Ben nine and you have a
great name because Ben is a fantastic sense

539
00:36:01.760 --> 00:36:07.960
of course nine ninety nine and says
porn is a naughty is naughty and sinful

540
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.320
thought crime. And we got the
see no evil here, no evil,

541
00:36:10.360 --> 00:36:15.719
speak no evil or a dance with
the devil target goal, a happy ending

542
00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:21.079
without a god as a perverse voyor
yes there I initially you're working through the

543
00:36:21.079 --> 00:36:27.400
emojis. It's uh, yes,
we definitely have some some porn talk coming

544
00:36:27.480 --> 00:36:30.519
up. I'm very excited too.
All right, let's do it. It's

545
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:34.079
a it's been a couple of months
since I've done secular sexuality, so I

546
00:36:34.119 --> 00:36:37.960
am all ready to talk to the
internet about pornography. Who do you want

547
00:36:37.960 --> 00:36:42.280
to start with? Yes, uh, we're gonna start with Laurie. She

548
00:36:42.599 --> 00:36:45.840
her from Ohio because I think she
called in first. She's been waiting a

549
00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:51.079
little bit longer, and she wants
to talk about pornography being a sin.

550
00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:53.719
Laurie what are your thoughts, Laurie, you are alive. I power you

551
00:36:55.199 --> 00:37:00.800
hello. Obviously tell you that um, the skin is phnography. Because while

552
00:37:00.960 --> 00:37:06.639
lust and adultery aren't to say they
are both sinful, God wants our hearts,

553
00:37:06.760 --> 00:37:10.320
not just our obedient. We can
say that phnography is a sin because

554
00:37:10.360 --> 00:37:15.119
it violates the character of God as
someone. Let's talk about that a little

555
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.880
bit. I want to clarify a
little bit when you say that something is

556
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:22.760
a sin. When we describe something
as a sin and label yes sin not

557
00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:25.599
a sin, we're not talking about
what is good for us. We're not

558
00:37:25.679 --> 00:37:30.639
talking about what is healthy or harmful. When we say that something is a

559
00:37:30.639 --> 00:37:35.239
sin, we're talking specifically about the
fact that God has declared that this is

560
00:37:35.280 --> 00:37:38.280
a bad thing to do. Right, Yes, it is from sin?

561
00:37:38.559 --> 00:37:40.960
Yeah, Well, I mean I
can't. I can't argue with you there.

562
00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.280
I am not going to disagree with
the notion that God hates porn,

563
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:52.280
except for insomuch as does God exist
and or have the capacity for hating things?

564
00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:54.239
We kind of have to go to
the very beginning and figure out the

565
00:37:54.280 --> 00:37:58.599
whole Is there a God? How
do you know? And why? But

566
00:37:58.719 --> 00:38:01.199
if we are just off reading from
the premise that the God of the Bible

567
00:38:01.360 --> 00:38:06.239
is real. Then yeah, sure
God hates porn, But like, why

568
00:38:06.320 --> 00:38:09.599
should Ben and I care because we
don't believe that God is let alone hates

569
00:38:10.000 --> 00:38:13.960
You know, I was once a
sinner. I was lost. I did

570
00:38:14.000 --> 00:38:17.039
not believe in God. And Harold
told I went to church and then I

571
00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:21.119
turned my whole life over to the
Lord. When I fully surrendered to him

572
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.719
and accepted him as my favor,
when I confessed him of Lord and confessed

573
00:38:24.760 --> 00:38:29.159
my sins to him, and he
cleans me, and he he opened my

574
00:38:29.199 --> 00:38:31.760
eyes. My guy just spiritually opened
Yes, okay, so you believe that

575
00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:37.079
there is a God and that God
hates sin, why should us the rest

576
00:38:37.079 --> 00:38:40.000
of us care? Because because the
God is true? How do you know

577
00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:45.280
that of all that exists, like
animals, everything that's alive, like dreams,

578
00:38:45.360 --> 00:38:49.840
though the error us? You know, if God did not exist,

579
00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:52.079
we would not be her. How
do you know that He created us?

580
00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:57.239
He created us to serve, to
serve him, that was the perfect You're

581
00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:00.239
just making claims. How do you
how do you know that because the Bible,

582
00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:04.320
the Bible speaks about it, and
the Bible is true, how do

583
00:39:04.400 --> 00:39:08.400
we know the Bible is true because
it's the evidence of things that much scenes.

584
00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.360
But the evidence, um, it's
all true, it's all true.

585
00:39:13.639 --> 00:39:15.800
How do you know that it's by
face? Okay? So it's do you

586
00:39:15.840 --> 00:39:21.559
know and knowing and knowing that God
is true even though of the things,

587
00:39:21.599 --> 00:39:24.480
of the evidence of the things I
don't see, but I still believe.

588
00:39:24.760 --> 00:39:29.639
Lordie, do you know what a
circular argument? I don't know. Right,

589
00:39:29.719 --> 00:39:34.880
So the way you're the argument that
you've made is that God is true

590
00:39:35.079 --> 00:39:37.800
and we know that God is true
because the Bible says that God is true.

591
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:42.119
And then how do we know that
the Bible is true? Because I

592
00:39:42.159 --> 00:39:46.000
know the Bible is true. So
it's you're not making any evidence. Why

593
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:51.239
not providing any evidence that any of
those are true? You're using like it's

594
00:39:51.320 --> 00:39:53.840
it's kind of like a game of
rock paper scissors, where like rock beats

595
00:39:53.840 --> 00:39:59.320
scissors, paper beats rock and says
its beats paper. It's a whole circle,

596
00:39:59.599 --> 00:40:04.000
but nothing really tells us why any
of those is actually true, right,

597
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.519
You're just relying on the other thing
instead of providing a reason to believe

598
00:40:07.639 --> 00:40:12.679
why those are true. Like there
are plenty of like I mean specifically taking

599
00:40:12.679 --> 00:40:15.159
the Bible for an example. There
are plenty of other people that would make

600
00:40:15.159 --> 00:40:19.159
the same argument about their book and
we just kind of went over this with

601
00:40:19.199 --> 00:40:22.000
the last scholar about um, Like, Muslims believe their book is true,

602
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:25.480
and they probably say say the same
thing, that their book is true because

603
00:40:25.639 --> 00:40:30.719
because they believe it to be true
and because their God is real. So

604
00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:37.880
why should I believe your book?
And that's what says you're believing Mum,

605
00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:40.920
that's other false gods. That's how
do you know that those The problem is,

606
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:45.920
though you're just asserting that that's what
your your book says. I don't

607
00:40:45.960 --> 00:40:49.760
have any reason to believe that your
book is correct. Right, there's also

608
00:40:49.800 --> 00:40:52.679
books out there well, but we
read because it would take us away from

609
00:40:52.880 --> 00:40:58.679
the truth living word of God.
So if I have a book that tells

610
00:40:58.719 --> 00:41:01.719
me that hobbits are real, is
that book term because it says that hobbits

611
00:41:01.719 --> 00:41:07.880
are real? Yeah? Why why
is my book not true? All Bibles

612
00:41:07.960 --> 00:41:10.760
they're all serving Satan, no matter
what if it's other gods. The Lord

613
00:41:10.760 --> 00:41:15.280
of the Rings is serving Satan.
Oft is Lord of the Rings serving Satan.

614
00:41:15.519 --> 00:41:19.559
I wasn't aware of that. Yes, it's true, they are of

615
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.639
Satan. Any other goods that are
that are mine, Laurie. Okay,

616
00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.920
Laurie, maybe we agree with you, maybe we don't, but can you

617
00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:31.360
please just explain to me how is
it that you know that the Bible is

618
00:41:31.400 --> 00:41:36.639
true but the Vedas is not,
that the Koran is not, that the

619
00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:40.719
Lord of the Rings is not what
makes you feel or how you know that

620
00:41:40.760 --> 00:41:45.119
the Bible is the only one that's
correct. Jesus Christ is the son of

621
00:41:45.159 --> 00:41:47.239
God and anyone, and Jesus says, anyone who denies me, I would

622
00:41:47.280 --> 00:41:52.280
deny you before I have any father
right the Koran. These books also make

623
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:58.840
similar claims that the God of the
Bible isn't real, but the Bible says

624
00:41:58.880 --> 00:42:01.679
that the Bible is. Who else
says that the Bible is real other than

625
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:05.400
the Bible? Because I know God
is real. That's why. How do

626
00:42:05.480 --> 00:42:07.559
you know this word is true?
Yeah? Because because the Bible told her

627
00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:13.519
first comes from hearing, Laura,
we're back into our circular argument territory.

628
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.800
I really appreciate where you're coming from, but we're seven minutes deep, and

629
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:21.599
so far, I'm still hearing the
Bible says so, And I know because

630
00:42:21.639 --> 00:42:23.920
the Bible says so, and it's
true because the Bible says that it's true.

631
00:42:23.960 --> 00:42:28.719
And the Bible is true because the
Bible says. So I would ask

632
00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.119
you to maybe think that through a
little bit, maybe give us a try

633
00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.400
on another week. Yeah, yep, i'd agree. But can I tell

634
00:42:35.440 --> 00:42:38.079
you one both about one more thing. We'll let you have the last word.

635
00:42:38.440 --> 00:42:42.519
Eighteen. Can you repeat that it
would be better for thee to be

636
00:42:42.599 --> 00:42:46.440
answer into life hot or pain,
rather than having two hands or two feet

637
00:42:46.599 --> 00:42:52.199
be cast into help into fire.
And so that says I blocked it out

638
00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:57.079
and cast it from thee. It
would be better for thee to enter into

639
00:42:57.480 --> 00:43:01.679
life with one eye rather than have
in two eyes and to cloud be cast

640
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:05.880
into hell fire. And that.
Now, God does not mean for you

641
00:43:05.920 --> 00:43:08.000
to go put your foot if you
like, or your hand if you hit

642
00:43:08.079 --> 00:43:10.800
somebody. He doesn't mean that to
cut it off. It means for you

643
00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:15.800
to turn away from the sin.
And yeah, we're still means for you

644
00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:19.960
to stop watching the porn. That's
why we, Laurie, we're still we're

645
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:23.719
still leave to God's mad about what
I do in my private time. Sorry,

646
00:43:23.719 --> 00:43:28.360
I didn't mean to cut you off
either, Ben, I just appreciate

647
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:30.000
you. I think we need to
move on. I think we need to

648
00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:35.880
move on and maybe try some fresh
ideas. Yeah, we're gonna move on

649
00:43:36.800 --> 00:43:40.519
to some other colors, Laurie.
I would strongly encourage you think about your

650
00:43:40.559 --> 00:43:45.159
reasoning of how you got to your
position, and and maybe as well,

651
00:43:45.199 --> 00:43:47.920
like you had started to talk about
not being a believer before and now you're

652
00:43:47.920 --> 00:43:52.199
a believer. Maybe next time if
you call in, you can tell us

653
00:43:52.440 --> 00:43:54.679
what made you make that decision to
switch, and that might be a more

654
00:43:54.760 --> 00:44:00.840
interesting call for the future. But
in the meantime, I want to tell

655
00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.639
you all about something really cool,
and that is we got a Patreon.

656
00:44:04.719 --> 00:44:07.119
I know a lot of you know
about the Patreon, but every week we

657
00:44:07.159 --> 00:44:10.719
read off the top five patrons a
week, which we will read off later

658
00:44:10.760 --> 00:44:14.880
on in the show today. But
if you want your name to be on

659
00:44:14.920 --> 00:44:19.800
that list, you can go to
tiny dot cc slash patreon THH And we

660
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:23.679
also have a channel that houses all
of the shows in ACA audio podcast form,

661
00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:28.159
So if you want to listen to
the show without seeing our faces,

662
00:44:28.280 --> 00:44:31.920
you can go to tiny dot cc
slash aeon podcasts. You can also become

663
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.800
part of the talk he Then community
and our fan run Facebook page at tiny

664
00:44:36.840 --> 00:44:42.719
dot cc slash FBTHG And in case
you didn't know, Talki then has a

665
00:44:42.920 --> 00:44:46.199
TikTok and we go there live before
the shows on Sunday. And there's also

666
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:52.320
I think some TikTok shows happening now
throughout the week that some people from the

667
00:44:52.360 --> 00:44:55.679
ACA are putting on. So go
subscribe and join that pre show on Talkie,

668
00:44:55.719 --> 00:44:59.440
then TikTok and some of the other
shows during the week. I know

669
00:44:59.639 --> 00:45:01.960
Richar Jilliver, one of our regular
hosts on this show, is very,

670
00:45:02.079 --> 00:45:06.119
very proud of the work that he's
doing over there on the TikTok, So

671
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:08.719
please go over there and watch that. It'll be a great And we have

672
00:45:08.760 --> 00:45:13.320
some more calls about porn, so
I think we're I think we're just going

673
00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.079
to take a bunch of porn calls
today. Like it's not very often that

674
00:45:16.119 --> 00:45:21.119
we get Christie and me together on
a show, so I'm going to have

675
00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.199
a good time today and talk all
about porn. So let's bring on.

676
00:45:25.639 --> 00:45:29.840
Is it pronounced? I'm sorry if
I mispronounced anybody's names, feel free to

677
00:45:29.920 --> 00:45:34.840
correct me. Drey, he him
from Texas, wants to talk about porn.

678
00:45:35.360 --> 00:45:37.440
Is wrong? Drey, you are
live on Talk Heathen. What is

679
00:45:37.519 --> 00:45:42.239
your argument I'm doing today? First
personally, Hey, did I pronounce her

680
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:45.760
name correctly? Yeah? He's right, Okay, I wanted to make sure.

681
00:45:45.840 --> 00:45:46.920
Yeah, Jerry, what do you
want to talk about? Um?

682
00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:52.239
Yeah, I want to. Um, so not I saw the topic of

683
00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:58.039
discussion and me coming from a theist
perspective, automatically, I'm automatically assuming that

684
00:45:58.159 --> 00:46:00.920
one is wrong, so I won't
try to arguing from a PSP point of

685
00:46:01.000 --> 00:46:06.440
view, arguing from a secular point
of view. Yeah, So when we

686
00:46:06.480 --> 00:46:10.039
say porn is wrong, like we
talked to the last color about how porn

687
00:46:10.159 --> 00:46:15.800
is quote sinful because God says it's
bad and I can't argue with that.

688
00:46:15.199 --> 00:46:19.599
But when you say it's wrong,
what does that really mean? Does that

689
00:46:19.679 --> 00:46:23.800
mean that porn is harmful to people? Does that mean that porn is damaging

690
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:28.400
in some way? Like? What
does wrong meaning in that sect? Absolutely?

691
00:46:28.840 --> 00:46:32.559
Absolutely what I elaborate for anyway,
Absolutely absolutely damaging to people. Okay,

692
00:46:34.039 --> 00:46:37.280
how do you know? Because Um, just from a historical standpoint,

693
00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:44.320
Um, no society has ever,
ever, has ever been able to build

694
00:46:44.320 --> 00:46:50.360
the pawn a foundation of hedonism.
So the act of putting pleasure first has

695
00:46:50.400 --> 00:46:54.280
always destroyed society's in history, not
all of history. So the only and

696
00:46:54.320 --> 00:46:58.159
I only say that. I only
say this because the reason I want to

697
00:46:58.199 --> 00:47:05.119
tie in how this is how porn
is imogen because porn relies on the objectification

698
00:47:05.360 --> 00:47:10.079
and the commodification of sexuality or sexuality
is something that's personal and it's intimate.

699
00:47:10.960 --> 00:47:14.440
Let me let me jump in right
there, because I feel like that premise

700
00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:20.639
alone is enough to keep us talking
all day. Why is porn only or

701
00:47:20.760 --> 00:47:24.239
rather sex? Why is sex only
supposed to be about intimacy? Where is

702
00:47:24.280 --> 00:47:29.119
that written? Who declared that?
And whose best interest did they have in

703
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:32.840
mind? Obviously you can have sex
that is commodified. Obviously you can have

704
00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.320
sex that isn't intimate, and plenty
of people do so. When you say

705
00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:42.760
you can't, what is it that
you actually mean here? I'm not saying

706
00:47:42.760 --> 00:47:45.840
that you can't. I'm just it
shouldn't maybe the greater good. It doesn't

707
00:47:45.880 --> 00:47:50.239
serve the greater good of humanity,
That's what I'm trying to argue. Okay,

708
00:47:50.239 --> 00:47:54.000
I mean, how does me going
and playing golf for for eight hours?

709
00:47:54.159 --> 00:47:59.320
How does that further humanity in any
sort of useful or meaningful way?

710
00:47:59.400 --> 00:48:05.119
How is you playing golf any better
for society than me masturbating to pornography for

711
00:48:05.159 --> 00:48:12.360
eight hours, because um, the
sorry, the implications of golf being perverted

712
00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:15.880
are low. The implications of six
being perverted are high. I mean,

713
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:19.760
and are talking about a sport that
has a lot of classism. We're talking

714
00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:23.239
about a sport that has a huge
environmental impact. I mean, golf can

715
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:27.800
be really really problematic to society.
Wait wait, wait, wait, the

716
00:48:27.880 --> 00:48:31.400
implications of six being perverted is for
one, and this is a huge this

717
00:48:31.440 --> 00:48:34.639
is a huge problem that we have. And we have a problem with child

718
00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:37.840
we have a problem with sex trafficky, and we have a problem with rape.

719
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:42.960
We have six. The perversion of
six is not It's totally different from

720
00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.840
proversion of something like golf. Golf
isn't a perversion of nature if if we

721
00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:51.199
want to, you know, take
that point. Like, I'm still trying

722
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:55.519
to figure out how pornography leads to
any of the social ills that you're talking

723
00:48:55.559 --> 00:48:59.079
about. You know, it reminds
me at the start of the call when

724
00:48:59.079 --> 00:49:02.840
you were talking about how a society
built on hedonism is going to be destroyed,

725
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:07.239
And I have to ask, like, what society on a long enough

726
00:49:07.280 --> 00:49:12.039
timeline hasn't been destroyed. You know, there have been plenty of societies throughout

727
00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:15.079
time and history and culture that have
had quote unquote hedonism, that have had

728
00:49:15.320 --> 00:49:20.639
beautiful gardens, that have had vineyards
for growing wine and all of these kinds

729
00:49:20.639 --> 00:49:24.000
of things, and eventually all of
those societies get destroyed. Is that because

730
00:49:24.000 --> 00:49:28.199
they were too hedonistic? I mean, what do these things mean? Yes,

731
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:30.880
But personally I want to say hedonism
is a part of why to get

732
00:49:30.880 --> 00:49:35.119
destroyed, because I think when people
become too obsessed with pleasure, they put

733
00:49:35.159 --> 00:49:37.760
down, they put their purpose on
the back hands, and infrastructure starts to

734
00:49:37.840 --> 00:49:42.719
crumble. Yes, So if we
all spent like forty hours a week playing

735
00:49:42.760 --> 00:49:46.840
golf and none of us participated in
life or were raising our children, or

736
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.159
educating ourselves or performing labor, then
our society would crumble. Similarly, if

737
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:58.039
we all decided to spend forty hours
a week watching pornography, our society would

738
00:49:58.079 --> 00:50:01.639
kind of crumble. But I'm strugg
going to figure out any differences here between

739
00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:07.000
pornography and golf. If you want
to be totally honest with yourself, golf

740
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:10.679
is not nearly as fun as six
It's not nearly as pleasurable. So that

741
00:50:10.840 --> 00:50:15.280
is a very that's the equivalency that
you're trying to make. It doesn't we

742
00:50:15.320 --> 00:50:21.280
should only do boring stuff that sounds
like happiness. But like, let's take

743
00:50:21.400 --> 00:50:23.760
any any hobby and like going along
the lines that Christie was saying, like,

744
00:50:24.280 --> 00:50:28.920
so I'm a doctor, right,
so I do a lot of very

745
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:34.280
important work for society throughout the week, and it gets very excessive sometimes,

746
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:39.280
Like there's a role in everybody's life
for pleasure and for a little bit of

747
00:50:39.639 --> 00:50:44.000
hedonism. And we're not saying that. I don't think any of us here

748
00:50:44.159 --> 00:50:47.280
is going to say that your entire
life should be based on just doing what's

749
00:50:47.320 --> 00:50:52.559
fun and abandoning what needs to be
done to further humanity. None of us

750
00:50:52.639 --> 00:50:58.239
are making that assertion. But we're
saying that sometimes it's a good idea for

751
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:05.400
people to have outlets for social functions, outlets for sports, outlets for sexual

752
00:51:05.480 --> 00:51:09.880
pleasure. These are all necessary things
for humanity. And I think Christy especially

753
00:51:09.880 --> 00:51:15.559
would advocate that like having your sexual
needs met leads to humans in general being

754
00:51:15.639 --> 00:51:21.480
more productive in their society. So
I don't think that, like, if

755
00:51:21.480 --> 00:51:24.320
we want to talk about like humans
and their their value to their society.

756
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:27.800
I mean, that's a certain discussion, but that has nothing to do with

757
00:51:28.039 --> 00:51:32.480
whether or not the act of watching
porn itself is problematic because what if somebody

758
00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:37.320
watches maybe for an hour a day, and then it's very productive in their

759
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:43.039
life, Like, you can't have
people only doing their job or people burnout.

760
00:51:43.119 --> 00:51:45.159
Right, let's see, this is
the this is them, So the

761
00:51:46.039 --> 00:51:51.639
barriers that the comes from not being
for porn won't be obsessed it. It's

762
00:51:51.679 --> 00:51:54.440
kind of stems from its prohibition.
So the okay, so from a PST

763
00:51:54.559 --> 00:51:58.360
point of view, sin it's something
that you shouldn't do, right, but

764
00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:01.199
it's something that people do any ways, and it's something that people should feel

765
00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:06.559
bad for because if they don't feel
bad for, they will do it without

766
00:52:06.679 --> 00:52:10.559
consequence. I know what's gonna happen
regardless, So people aren't desiring to have

767
00:52:10.679 --> 00:52:15.239
their sexual needs meant, it is
something that's going to happen regardless. But

768
00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:21.360
we have we have the societal barriers. For instance, we got societal barriers

769
00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:24.360
because okay, that's the instance if
we did not have societal Sorry, I'm

770
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:28.519
sorry that was a Yeah. Let
me let me jump in a little bit

771
00:52:28.559 --> 00:52:31.880
dre because I feel like you might
be struggling here. It really sounds like

772
00:52:32.119 --> 00:52:37.119
you had that experience that we all
have at some point where instead of our

773
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:40.119
mom or dad telling us like,
Okay, you can have a cookie,

774
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:45.840
but only one, we all had
an experience at a certain age where mom

775
00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:50.639
wasn't looking and we ate as many
cookies as we possibly can and then got

776
00:52:50.760 --> 00:52:53.039
sick from it and started to realize, oh, there was a good reason

777
00:52:53.280 --> 00:52:57.800
my mom said that there was a
restriction on the number of cookies. What

778
00:52:57.960 --> 00:53:00.079
I'm hearing from you, dre what
everything I have heard from you over the

779
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.880
course of the last ten minutes can
feels like it can be boiled down to

780
00:53:05.400 --> 00:53:09.239
I'm worried that this cookie tastes so
good that I can't trust myself and I

781
00:53:09.280 --> 00:53:13.920
shouldn't like it, And there's all
of these ideas of what I should be

782
00:53:13.960 --> 00:53:16.119
doing and what I shouldn't be doing, and what I'm gonna do anyway even

783
00:53:16.159 --> 00:53:21.480
though I shouldn't do it, and
it all is just sort of this notion

784
00:53:21.800 --> 00:53:25.119
of being somehow unable to control yourself
around the things that you enjoy. And

785
00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:30.199
because you don't think that golf is
that particularly fun, you're not really worried

786
00:53:30.239 --> 00:53:32.400
about it, and you don't really
see golf as sinful, but porne,

787
00:53:32.599 --> 00:53:37.159
who mama? Is that something that's
a lot of fun and therefore we have

788
00:53:37.199 --> 00:53:39.400
to be extra extra careful about it. And then we bring in all of

789
00:53:39.440 --> 00:53:44.639
this like moralizing from God and everything
else. Is there anything that I've said

790
00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:50.320
just now that you disagree with or
that doesn't actually encapsulate your argument up to

791
00:53:50.360 --> 00:53:52.840
this point? No, it doesn't. I want to say. I just

792
00:53:52.920 --> 00:53:54.400
want to say, like one more
thing that I've got to go back to

793
00:53:54.440 --> 00:53:58.719
work. But what I want to
say is that if you look up actual

794
00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:02.480
actuals to statistics, you will know
that a lot of people, a lot

795
00:54:02.519 --> 00:54:08.039
of a lot of um, sexual
predators and people that are that have been

796
00:54:08.079 --> 00:54:14.360
guilty of sexual crimes they follow.
Um, it's a certain pipeline that well,

797
00:54:14.400 --> 00:54:17.000
but there's something lots of people committing
lots of crimes, the biggest crimes

798
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:22.760
in our country because a lot of
people that are are committing a lot of

799
00:54:22.760 --> 00:54:30.400
these crimes are in religious institutions and
especially in positions of power in religious institution.

800
00:54:30.760 --> 00:54:34.000
Um. And just some something thrown
out there. Yeah, if we're

801
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:37.599
trying to profile people based on their
hobbies, I am much more interested in

802
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:43.719
the criminality of the top one percent
of golfers in this country than the criminality

803
00:54:43.760 --> 00:54:46.920
of the top one percent of porn
consumption in this country. Absolutely take that

804
00:54:47.000 --> 00:54:52.000
to the bank. I appreciate what
you're saying, but when you say statistics,

805
00:54:52.199 --> 00:54:57.039
you are so far off course.
You have no citation on that,

806
00:54:57.199 --> 00:55:00.960
And while I don't want to be
pedantic or pick it any specific little thing,

807
00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:07.079
I have to just flat out reject
this whole porn to predator pipeline philosophy

808
00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:10.760
that you're promoting here. It's a
shout out to our sound team for those

809
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.800
closest Sorry, real statistics. Call
us back. When you have real statistics,

810
00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:20.559
email us. I would love to
see a number TV at Atheist hyphen

811
00:55:20.639 --> 00:55:24.159
Community dot org. I will be
sitting here with bated breath, desperate to

812
00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:29.280
see that research study because I have
spent so much of my career trying to

813
00:55:29.320 --> 00:55:32.360
find those numbers that everybody says are
out there that I swear to you do

814
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:36.760
not exist. I will read them
on air. I put you have my

815
00:55:36.880 --> 00:55:42.920
word right now, Dre. If
you email anything even remotely resembling the statistics

816
00:55:42.920 --> 00:55:45.599
that you claim you have, I
will read them on air. You have

817
00:55:45.880 --> 00:55:50.360
my word. Other than that,
thank you for calling. Please keep thinking

818
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:52.440
on it. Yeah, thank you
for calling in. We love to hear

819
00:55:52.639 --> 00:55:54.440
back from you, and I hope
you have a good rest of your Sunday.

820
00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:59.360
Oh Ben, I didn't mean to
get too turned up towards the end

821
00:55:59.400 --> 00:56:02.840
of it, but it's started to
resemble sort of the worst of the backwater

822
00:56:04.280 --> 00:56:09.039
for Channy. I guess twitter x
now conversation that our culture seems to be

823
00:56:09.119 --> 00:56:13.039
having that you and I were even
touching on before the show, about how

824
00:56:13.159 --> 00:56:16.920
there's this idea that anybody whose sex
life doesn't look like you know, the

825
00:56:17.000 --> 00:56:23.679
Cleavers, is somehow grooming children is
somehow going to be like violent or predatory

826
00:56:23.719 --> 00:56:30.920
towards kids or towards other marginalized people. And I just get so angry at

827
00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:36.320
this notion that something that our society
is uncomfortable with is inherently evil and the

828
00:56:36.360 --> 00:56:38.639
source of every bad thing that's ever
happened. And it just makes me laugh

829
00:56:38.679 --> 00:56:43.800
too. Every time we get a
caller that wants to try to explain to

830
00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:47.280
us the statistics about something like this, and they have no idea that they're

831
00:56:47.320 --> 00:56:52.880
talking to an expert in the field
that has been studying sex and how humans

832
00:56:53.159 --> 00:57:00.239
like respond to sexual stimuli and all
that. Like, it's hilarious that want

833
00:57:00.280 --> 00:57:04.679
to present that and not not give
any statistics. It's just funny to me.

834
00:57:05.000 --> 00:57:07.960
Yeah, No, I love I
mean, it's so nice when you

835
00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:12.239
have it in such a tight bow, because that conversation is reflective of almost

836
00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:16.159
every conversation I have about pornography in
my work as a therapist, because so

837
00:57:16.280 --> 00:57:20.559
often people will come in and they'll
say, well, I really want to

838
00:57:20.639 --> 00:57:24.239
argue this from a secular standpoint.
I'm not being roped in by my old

839
00:57:24.280 --> 00:57:29.559
religious beliefs. But then when you
start to scratch the surface or push back

840
00:57:29.559 --> 00:57:32.480
on any of this quote unquote accepted
knowledge, you realize that, no,

841
00:57:32.599 --> 00:57:38.840
it just devolves into religious moralizing again. Yeah and again like Christy already mentioned.

842
00:57:39.039 --> 00:57:43.159
But just for anybody else out there, if you've got debates on this

843
00:57:43.199 --> 00:57:47.480
particular point, or if you have
studies that would suggest that that porn is

844
00:57:47.519 --> 00:57:53.039
bad and that this pipeline exists,
then you can send an email to TV

845
00:57:53.199 --> 00:57:58.320
at Atheist hype in community dot org
and let us know what you think about

846
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:00.800
that. And also if you just
want to send us feedback in general,

847
00:58:01.360 --> 00:58:05.320
you can send to that same email. You can tell us what you like

848
00:58:05.400 --> 00:58:07.800
and what you don't like about the
shows. You can tell your your least

849
00:58:07.840 --> 00:58:12.559
favorite host to fuck off if you
really want to, because somebody, somebody

850
00:58:12.599 --> 00:58:15.239
will send us that email, probably
m Or if you just want to say

851
00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:19.440
hi, that's also a way to
do that. And if you want to

852
00:58:19.440 --> 00:58:22.679
know more about what's going on in
the atheist community, you can go to

853
00:58:23.119 --> 00:58:29.480
www dot Atheist hyphen Community dot org
where you can learn more about the aca

854
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:32.119
it's policies and how you can get
involved. And I know earlier we talked

855
00:58:32.159 --> 00:58:36.119
a little bit about the top five
patrons of the week. I feel like

856
00:58:36.159 --> 00:58:39.320
it's a good time in the show
to read those names off. I know

857
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:42.920
it's a you're gonna have to squirrel
up a little bit. Christy, would

858
00:58:42.920 --> 00:58:45.880
you like to read off the top
five for this Yeah, of course,

859
00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:50.840
as always in our number one spot
is our friend Dingleberry Jackson, followed closely

860
00:58:50.880 --> 00:58:57.199
by Aame Oops All Singularity Devour Valgene
and number five spot is held by Collevi

861
00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:01.280
Helvetti. Honorable mention this week is
are In the number six spot is our

862
00:59:01.400 --> 00:59:07.000
Lord Trilobite Amazing and next you want
if you want your name on that list.

863
00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:10.199
We already talked about it. But
you can go to the Patreon and

864
00:59:10.320 --> 00:59:15.079
compete for one of those hop spots
and maybe your name will be read out

865
00:59:15.280 --> 00:59:19.840
next week. M all right,
well we have we have some more calls

866
00:59:19.880 --> 00:59:22.679
on the line. I think,
you know what, this is just turning

867
00:59:22.719 --> 00:59:27.280
into a porn episode and I really
don't mind that. Yeah, here for

868
00:59:27.400 --> 00:59:31.440
it. Um, let's do it. Let's let's talk to Slave of Christ.

869
00:59:31.639 --> 00:59:36.079
He him from Texas. All right, Slave of Christ, you are

870
00:59:36.199 --> 00:59:38.920
on the air. What would you
like to talk about? Hi? Christie

871
00:59:38.960 --> 00:59:44.960
Powell, Hi Ben. We've spoke
before, if you remember from my voice

872
00:59:45.199 --> 00:59:49.320
I do. Yeah, just because
we've been kind of circling this issue a

873
00:59:49.320 --> 00:59:54.480
little bit already today when we talk
about pornography being bad, can you just

874
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:58.599
start by kind of telling us what
is? What does bad mean? Bad

875
00:59:58.639 --> 01:00:02.280
for society, bad for health,
bad for offending God? Like what makes

876
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:08.320
it bad? Uh? Well,
there's uh okay, uh. This was

877
01:00:08.480 --> 01:00:15.880
like my basic argument. I urge
you, as foreign nurse and exhaust abstain

878
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:22.119
from sinful desires which which wage war
against your fall. That's First Peter two

879
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:30.360
eleven of First Corinthians. Also in
the First before you jump into another verse.

880
01:00:30.840 --> 01:00:35.480
Can you boil down what you're saying
to porn is wrong because God says

881
01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:38.320
it's wrong. No, that's not
my argument. My argument is when you

882
01:00:38.360 --> 01:00:44.320
consume those materials, you're more likely
to fall into fornication. And I have

883
01:00:44.400 --> 01:00:52.639
a I actually could sun Yeah,
define fornication pornication. Uh, define fornication

884
01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:57.159
for me and tell me why I
would not want to fall into it.

885
01:00:57.599 --> 01:01:02.199
Okay, fornication means uh, there
is an order of God, which means

886
01:01:02.239 --> 01:01:10.159
God all only wants us to enjoy
pleasure within a marriage circle. Right.

887
01:01:10.320 --> 01:01:15.360
So so I'm pushing back here.
I'm interrupting you because I asked you,

888
01:01:15.480 --> 01:01:19.239
like less than a minute ago.
Does this boil down to porn is wrong

889
01:01:19.320 --> 01:01:22.159
because God says it's wrong? And
it sounds like you're about to tell me

890
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:27.159
that porn is wrong because God's that
right. No, I was about to

891
01:01:27.320 --> 01:01:35.440
hide you. Research that in the
Christian community having relations outside of marriage is

892
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:42.039
rising, and there is a link
or a connection with pornography conception. So

893
01:01:42.320 --> 01:01:45.360
save a christ hold on the problem. The problem here is that you're asserting

894
01:01:45.440 --> 01:01:50.760
that watching porn is going to make
you more likely to fornicate, and that

895
01:01:50.920 --> 01:01:53.679
the study then that you're hold on, hold on, and that the data

896
01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:59.639
is now saying that there are more
Christians that are having sex outside of marriage,

897
01:02:00.039 --> 01:02:04.840
but you still haven't communicated why that's
a problem. I don't see why

898
01:02:05.000 --> 01:02:09.960
sex outside of marriage, when it's
consensual between adults is a problem. Okay,

899
01:02:10.039 --> 01:02:15.079
So there's like, after we die, we will all face the judgment

900
01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:20.239
seat of Christ. Right. I
don't believe any believe christ. I don't

901
01:02:20.239 --> 01:02:22.960
believe God says it's wrong. I
don't believe any of that is true.

902
01:02:23.079 --> 01:02:29.920
Why it's other than can can you
give a non religious reason why having sex

903
01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:34.199
outside of marriage is wrong? Okay? Well, the issue is not you

904
01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:39.880
having relations to outside of marriage.
There the issue is it will you will

905
01:02:40.039 --> 01:02:45.400
end up harming your own self,
your physical how How how does having sex

906
01:02:45.440 --> 01:02:52.639
outside of marriage harm myself because it
will affect your your day to day life,

907
01:02:52.679 --> 01:02:57.000
the way you're interact with other how
How give me specifics? Okay,

908
01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:01.360
okay, okay, you have to
respect other pole right should not. But

909
01:03:01.440 --> 01:03:06.519
it is it is what people say, But christ I'm saying that. So

910
01:03:06.639 --> 01:03:10.400
let's have two people and they want
to have sex, and they both are

911
01:03:10.519 --> 01:03:15.320
in the right state of mind,
they are not impaired in any way,

912
01:03:15.440 --> 01:03:19.000
and they both say they're both over
the age of consent, so they are

913
01:03:19.000 --> 01:03:22.400
both adults, and they both say, Hey, I want to have sex,

914
01:03:22.559 --> 01:03:24.320
Let's go have sex, and then
they do. How is that?

915
01:03:24.639 --> 01:03:30.079
How is that impacting their their reactions
to other people negatively? That seems like

916
01:03:30.199 --> 01:03:35.760
they had an adult discussion and they
both agreed to do this activity and they

917
01:03:35.760 --> 01:03:38.920
were both consenting to it, and
they're both respecting each other in the way

918
01:03:38.960 --> 01:03:42.840
that they went about this. I
don't see how that's a negative interaction.

919
01:03:43.159 --> 01:03:50.480
Yeah, my colling is not about
like in general, it's not about pornography.

920
01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:54.079
It's about pornication and objection. We're
asking you to tell us why.

921
01:03:54.719 --> 01:03:59.880
So you're dodging the question because we
asked you why porn was wrong, and

922
01:04:00.079 --> 01:04:01.320
you went to fornication, and then
we asked you hold on, and then

923
01:04:01.360 --> 01:04:05.519
we asked you why fornication was wrong, and then you said it's bad because

924
01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:12.360
it will impact your day to day
life and will negatively impact how you interact

925
01:04:12.360 --> 01:04:15.880
with other people. So you made
that claim. Now I need you to

926
01:04:15.920 --> 01:04:20.199
give specifics about what negative things are
happening in those interactions, and how is

927
01:04:20.239 --> 01:04:25.679
that caused by fornication. You have
to demonstrate that. Okay. So so

928
01:04:25.960 --> 01:04:29.079
okay, let me ask you this
question. Are you white? Yeah,

929
01:04:29.159 --> 01:04:33.239
I'm asking people they're white. I
don't see what this has to do with

930
01:04:33.280 --> 01:04:39.639
anything. Okay, Okay, I'm
darker scan That's why I'm asking of this.

931
01:04:39.840 --> 01:04:42.880
That has nothing to do with anything. Though. What does that have

932
01:04:42.960 --> 01:04:45.159
to do with having sex with people
outside of marriage? Okay? Okay.

933
01:04:45.320 --> 01:04:50.760
What I'm saying is, uh,
there's this issue of uh, you know,

934
01:04:50.960 --> 01:04:58.800
like a certain racist are going outside
of the race to get married and

935
01:04:59.000 --> 01:05:01.760
you know, being more attractive to
the other race, and they do you

936
01:05:01.880 --> 01:05:05.599
believe resolved? Hold on? Do
you believe that that's a problem. I

937
01:05:05.599 --> 01:05:10.519
don't see a problem with it.
No, I'm not saying that's a problem.

938
01:05:10.519 --> 01:05:15.079
What I'm saying is objectifying others and
disrespecting others. Basically, when it

939
01:05:15.079 --> 01:05:19.679
comes to disrespect, that's the objectifying. That's not necessarily what's happening. I

940
01:05:19.760 --> 01:05:24.280
gave you. Hold on, we're
not talking like I would agree that that

941
01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:29.119
objectifying people is a is a problem. If you're if you're engaging in sects

942
01:05:29.199 --> 01:05:33.159
with somebody that does not want to
do that, that is sexual assault and

943
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:38.320
that is bad. That is a
crime, that is absolutely immoral. But

944
01:05:38.360 --> 01:05:42.440
that's not what we're talking about.
We're talking about two consenting adults that want

945
01:05:42.519 --> 01:05:45.159
to have relation and that they do. These are totally difference in it.

946
01:05:45.599 --> 01:05:50.599
Oh okay, why do why people
objectify us? Why this is not this

947
01:05:50.719 --> 01:05:57.280
is not related to you called in
to say porn was wrong and we are

948
01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:02.400
seven minutes deep into this come conversation, and I we've covered the gambit,

949
01:06:02.400 --> 01:06:06.800
but we haven't actually talked about anything. So Slave of Christ, I'm a

950
01:06:06.840 --> 01:06:11.800
little bit worn on. Patients were
towards the end of the show. I'm

951
01:06:11.840 --> 01:06:16.280
just gonna say it very plainly.
Will you please give me a thirty second

952
01:06:16.360 --> 01:06:21.719
elevator pitch on the concept of why
pornography is bad and if you can do

953
01:06:21.760 --> 01:06:26.440
that, we can continue this conversation. If you refuse to, I'm done.

954
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:31.639
Okay now. The first is it
is the cause, the main cause

955
01:06:31.760 --> 01:06:38.239
of people for people to get a
sexual sex, said addict. The second

956
01:06:38.280 --> 01:06:43.559
will be it is more likely that
they will commit unprotected sex. The third

957
01:06:43.639 --> 01:06:47.840
will be the damage of the family. When people are consuming such materials,

958
01:06:47.880 --> 01:06:56.239
you're more likely to be on lawyers
to their mates or partners. The fourth

959
01:06:56.280 --> 01:07:00.079
will be like the religious one,
where people will be trade their religious ideas

960
01:07:00.320 --> 01:07:05.880
like Christianity or such desires. Okay, so I'm just gonna go down the

961
01:07:06.000 --> 01:07:11.960
road here really quickly. Pornography causes
sex addiction. Not true. There's no

962
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:15.320
such thing as sex addiction. It's
a complicated issue. We tried really hard

963
01:07:15.320 --> 01:07:18.119
to cover it well on Secular Sexuality
and other places, but I'm just gonna

964
01:07:18.119 --> 01:07:21.119
say it plainly here. Sex addiction
is not a real thing. So I'm

965
01:07:21.159 --> 01:07:25.920
throwing that out. You said it
leads to more risky sex, that watching

966
01:07:25.960 --> 01:07:30.599
pornography leads to, like failing to
use contraception and stuff like that. Hard

967
01:07:30.679 --> 01:07:34.000
disagree. I have seen over and
over and over, and the statistics seem

968
01:07:34.039 --> 01:07:39.679
to bear out that people who are
engaged with their sexuality, people who are

969
01:07:39.719 --> 01:07:45.519
not shameful about their sexuality, people
who are not uncomfortable with pornography and things

970
01:07:45.599 --> 01:07:48.280
like that, are going to be
much more informed about sexuality. It only

971
01:07:48.360 --> 01:07:53.280
makes sense if you are comfortable talking
about sex, then you're not going to

972
01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:57.239
feel weird or squigged out going to
a doctor and having an STI check.

973
01:07:57.320 --> 01:08:00.360
For one thing, you said that
porn leads to eating, which God no,

974
01:08:00.960 --> 01:08:04.400
I mean, how would you know
that? There's certainly no statistic to

975
01:08:04.440 --> 01:08:09.239
support that, and there's plenty of
reason to believe that in many cases,

976
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:14.199
people are able to enjoy pornography as
a way of avoiding cheating, as a

977
01:08:14.239 --> 01:08:18.920
way of having a healthy form of
sexual expression within the confines of an otherwise

978
01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:23.800
monogamous relationship. And then finally,
you said that porn leads to betraying God,

979
01:08:23.840 --> 01:08:26.439
which is what I knew you were
going to say when we first started

980
01:08:26.439 --> 01:08:30.600
this call, because it's what everybody
has been saying so far on this topic.

981
01:08:30.800 --> 01:08:33.880
And I don't care about betraying God. There is no God, and

982
01:08:33.920 --> 01:08:39.640
so I'm very happy to disappoint him
in this way. If you don't have

983
01:08:39.720 --> 01:08:44.000
anything else, Emmanuel, I feel
like I have covered everything that you've had

984
01:08:44.039 --> 01:08:45.720
to say, and in the last
ten minutes, I don't feel like we've

985
01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:49.880
gotten very far. Do you have
any question or something like that. I

986
01:08:49.920 --> 01:08:53.680
think I'm good. Yeah, I
think I think we're ready to move on.

987
01:08:53.800 --> 01:08:57.359
We're almost done with the show,
So thanks for calling in, and

988
01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:01.279
we're going to move on. And
I did want to mention because I know

989
01:09:01.319 --> 01:09:05.960
I didn't say this earlier. I
know I said that the tickets for the

990
01:09:05.960 --> 01:09:12.000
Bat Crews were sold out, but
it's still okay because even if you can't

991
01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.640
make it too specifically the Bat CRUs, if you're in Austin or the surrounding

992
01:09:15.680 --> 01:09:20.239
area and can be at the Library
on August twenty seven, twenty twenty three,

993
01:09:20.319 --> 01:09:25.680
you can still join us for the
live shows of Talkie Then an XP.

994
01:09:26.319 --> 01:09:30.840
Talkie Then will be hosted by Forrest
Valkai, J Mike, and Jamie

995
01:09:30.840 --> 01:09:35.640
Forbes. The Atheist Experience will be
hosted by Johnny p Angel, Forest Valki,

996
01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:39.479
and J Mike. Doors open at
noon, and we hope to see

997
01:09:39.520 --> 01:09:42.399
you there. So even if even
if you can't make it to the bat

998
01:09:42.439 --> 01:09:45.640
Cruise or you didn't get your tickets
in time, you can still make it

999
01:09:45.680 --> 01:09:49.119
to the Library, which is super
super fun. I highly highly recommend you

1000
01:09:49.199 --> 01:09:53.000
get out there for a show at
least once. It's a great time and

1001
01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:58.199
I'm excited to see each show hosted
by three different people. That should be

1002
01:09:58.359 --> 01:10:00.319
an experience. Yeah, no,
it it'll definitely be a lot, a

1003
01:10:00.399 --> 01:10:03.439
lot of strong voices. So that's
a good time I'm looking forward to.

1004
01:10:03.760 --> 01:10:09.159
All Right, I think we um
we're gonna move on from the porn talk

1005
01:10:09.239 --> 01:10:12.439
to talk about a little bit different
content. So I know if anyone's in

1006
01:10:12.439 --> 01:10:15.880
the audience says like I didn't come
here to watch a show on porn,

1007
01:10:15.199 --> 01:10:19.159
well we're gonna take a call now. That is such an atheist stereotype,

1008
01:10:19.159 --> 01:10:24.800
by the way, like peace loving, dope smoking, porn watching atheistsans.

1009
01:10:25.039 --> 01:10:27.800
I get it. Yeah, yeah, But anyway, we're gonna talk to

1010
01:10:28.279 --> 01:10:33.560
Billy from Texas wanting to talk about
humans are able to make simulated universes and

1011
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:38.439
I'm really I'm really curious about this, Billy, what kind of give us

1012
01:10:38.479 --> 01:10:42.439
your your elevator pitch. I like
how Christy said it before your thirty second

1013
01:10:42.439 --> 01:10:47.239
elevator pitch about what you want to
talk about today? I saw the first

1014
01:10:47.279 --> 01:10:50.800
caller, and what's the first call
you said that, Um, we you

1015
01:10:50.840 --> 01:10:55.640
know the argument that we only have
one universe and and uh so we don't

1016
01:10:55.640 --> 01:11:02.039
know if they're us. The chacteristics
are a cosmological constants. We're different than

1017
01:11:02.319 --> 01:11:06.640
we could possibly have a different universe
or something something like this. So there's

1018
01:11:06.680 --> 01:11:12.119
no reason to think that fine tuning
is a good argument or whatever. But

1019
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:15.680
the thing is that, um,
we do have multiple I mean, we

1020
01:11:15.720 --> 01:11:18.960
only have one universe that we can
experience, obviously, but we do have

1021
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:23.239
multiple universes. We do have many, many wols of the dice that we

1022
01:11:23.319 --> 01:11:28.720
do all the time. Even Einstein
used to create simulated universes almost one hundred

1023
01:11:28.760 --> 01:11:32.039
years ago. That's how they determined
that fine tuning, that the universe is

1024
01:11:32.079 --> 01:11:38.199
fine tuned, and that if those
uh characteristics were different, that the universe,

1025
01:11:38.279 --> 01:11:41.640
in most cases of the universe itself
would not exist, not just life

1026
01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:45.359
wouldn't exist. So Billy, so
Billy, Yeah, that's that's my that's

1027
01:11:45.399 --> 01:11:48.600
my argument. Those are like,
yeah, so we have some some simulations,

1028
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:55.000
right, but those are theoretical,
right, we don't have those universes

1029
01:11:55.119 --> 01:11:58.399
in reality that we know at correct
well, I mean, obviously we don't

1030
01:11:58.439 --> 01:12:02.800
know of multiple life physical use.
When you run into the post talk problem

1031
01:12:02.840 --> 01:12:05.479
as well, like yeah, the
fact that we're looking at it from that

1032
01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:10.640
this this side of the event,
but please ben ahead. Yeah, I

1033
01:12:10.680 --> 01:12:14.039
mean the whole thing is that,
like, we can theorize a lot of

1034
01:12:14.079 --> 01:12:19.239
things, but there's a big difference
between theory and actual experimentation and actual evidence,

1035
01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:23.439
right, Like I can I can
think something in my brain and I

1036
01:12:23.479 --> 01:12:26.800
can do a logic, but just
because I did a logic doesn't mean that

1037
01:12:26.800 --> 01:12:30.159
that logic is going to play out
that same way in reality, because again,

1038
01:12:30.199 --> 01:12:33.119
there's a lot of variables that we
might not know about yet. And

1039
01:12:33.159 --> 01:12:36.359
so if I say, yeah,
I'm accounting for all the variables that I

1040
01:12:36.399 --> 01:12:41.479
know about, and maybe I give
some leeway for some unexpected but either way,

1041
01:12:41.640 --> 01:12:45.920
we're not going to be able to
test those in reality to verify whether

1042
01:12:45.000 --> 01:12:48.119
or not it's true. And that's
why theory kind of, like at least

1043
01:12:48.119 --> 01:12:51.640
this kind of theory just kind of
stays in theory until we can find a

1044
01:12:51.680 --> 01:12:55.920
way to really demonstrate that. So
that's why when I say, like,

1045
01:12:56.079 --> 01:13:01.199
we cannot statistically like actually prove this. We don't have a weight, we

1046
01:13:01.239 --> 01:13:05.279
have an end equals one, and
even if we have a theoretical alternative,

1047
01:13:05.439 --> 01:13:12.279
it's it's theoretical, and we see
this even I use medicine frequently as examples

1048
01:13:12.319 --> 01:13:16.880
because that's my field. So like
we've had different hypotheses over and over throughout

1049
01:13:16.920 --> 01:13:20.439
like the history of medicine, and
I can guess, like, oh,

1050
01:13:20.560 --> 01:13:26.119
I think that this particular medication is
going to be good for this person because

1051
01:13:26.439 --> 01:13:30.840
I understand this physiological process to a
certain extent, and this is what I

1052
01:13:30.840 --> 01:13:32.840
can guess it's going to do.
There have been so many times where we've

1053
01:13:32.840 --> 01:13:36.640
tried things like that and we've gotten
a different outcome than what we expected because

1054
01:13:36.680 --> 01:13:42.640
we just didn't know. And so
if I made decisions in medicine based only

1055
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:46.880
on theory and not based on experimental
evidence, I could potentially hurt somebody,

1056
01:13:47.000 --> 01:13:53.279
right, And so like, there's
a danger too into relying on theory and

1057
01:13:53.439 --> 01:13:58.800
making decisions based on theory alone,
because we have all of those variables.

1058
01:13:58.600 --> 01:14:00.760
And that's like, so I think
it's I like to throw on the phrase

1059
01:14:00.800 --> 01:14:03.920
like it's mental masturbation to an extent, because it's like it's fun, it's

1060
01:14:03.960 --> 01:14:08.600
great, Like I enjoy having those
discussions. But then there becomes kind of

1061
01:14:08.600 --> 01:14:13.079
a problem when we take this and
say I'm going to make decisions for myself

1062
01:14:13.079 --> 01:14:16.399
and other people based on just this
theory, right, and depending on depending

1063
01:14:16.399 --> 01:14:20.039
on what the theory is too,
like there might be differences in the degrees

1064
01:14:20.039 --> 01:14:24.720
of consequence. Um. But that's
kind of my pushback, is that this

1065
01:14:24.800 --> 01:14:27.720
is all theoretical, So I don't
think it's a good I don't think it's

1066
01:14:27.720 --> 01:14:30.439
a good. Reason too then say
that the fine tuning argument is a good

1067
01:14:30.479 --> 01:14:33.560
argument. Well, I think that's
the reason. That's the reason why we

1068
01:14:33.680 --> 01:14:40.800
use simulations to to do these to
evaluate this because obviously we can't experiment,

1069
01:14:40.800 --> 01:14:45.199
we cannot create universes um and in
physical reality, so we have to do

1070
01:14:45.239 --> 01:14:51.439
it using supercomputers um like a like
a lustous TG three hundred whenever we create

1071
01:14:51.479 --> 01:14:56.479
whenever, we created that simulation,
and we used because we have a lot

1072
01:14:56.680 --> 01:15:00.079
of new information about the variables.
We know a lot lot of information.

1073
01:15:00.199 --> 01:15:03.840
We know a lot, but do
we know are there variables? Really are

1074
01:15:03.880 --> 01:15:08.359
there? We are there variables that
we wouldn't know about. No, no,

1075
01:15:08.399 --> 01:15:10.640
billy, because I'm not going to
let you keep smugling in points.

1076
01:15:10.680 --> 01:15:15.399
We're going to address the points as
they come because otherwise we start assuming that

1077
01:15:15.479 --> 01:15:18.800
what you said was correct and you're
able to just go off of those assumptions.

1078
01:15:18.920 --> 01:15:21.880
And I don't want to go off
of those assumptions. So um,

1079
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:27.479
even with the supercomputer or anything else, there is still data that cannot be

1080
01:15:27.520 --> 01:15:31.119
accounted for with that right because there
are things that we don't know. Right

1081
01:15:31.199 --> 01:15:35.960
we can make simulations that we can
make simulations that match what we see in

1082
01:15:36.000 --> 01:15:43.920
reality. Right now, using to
an extent to an extent, almost identically

1083
01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:46.720
matches what we've seen in reality to
an extent that from what we see in

1084
01:15:46.800 --> 01:15:51.600
reality. Right, we don't know
everything in reality, right, we don't,

1085
01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:57.000
So is there still room for error
in the simulations? We know enough

1086
01:15:57.039 --> 01:16:00.520
to know that we know enough you're
saying we know enough about the universe to

1087
01:16:00.640 --> 01:16:08.800
not have error in our simulation.
All are useful. We know enough about

1088
01:16:08.800 --> 01:16:15.520
physics to know that if certain four
characteristics are different by a small amount,

1089
01:16:15.520 --> 01:16:19.560
than the universe itself would not exist. So and uh, it would not.

1090
01:16:20.399 --> 01:16:24.000
I'm going to push back on that. It may not exist in the

1091
01:16:24.039 --> 01:16:29.079
way that we currently experience reality.
There are certain things like there are a

1092
01:16:29.079 --> 01:16:31.800
lot of variables. If we changed
we might get a result that we just

1093
01:16:31.960 --> 01:16:36.840
didn't know was possible. And this
isn't saying that I believe in those universes,

1094
01:16:38.239 --> 01:16:42.079
but I'm I'm in the camp of
we don't know what the possibilities are.

1095
01:16:42.199 --> 01:16:45.680
We don't have a way to actually
determine the probability. We can make

1096
01:16:45.720 --> 01:16:48.720
guesses, we can make theories,
but that's not We've been doing that for

1097
01:16:48.760 --> 01:16:53.359
a hundred years though, I mean, you don't think that that we've do

1098
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:55.880
you think Do you think, Billy, Billy, do you think that the

1099
01:16:55.960 --> 01:16:59.319
things that we know now are going
to be the exact same things that we

1100
01:16:59.520 --> 01:17:02.000
consider be true like one hundred years
from now or even a thousand years from

1101
01:17:02.000 --> 01:17:04.760
now. Do you think our science
is so good right now that is not

1102
01:17:04.800 --> 01:17:09.279
going to be corrected in the future. I mean, I don't go about

1103
01:17:09.319 --> 01:17:13.000
I can't go on future knowledge because
I mean, right, we don't know.

1104
01:17:13.319 --> 01:17:15.840
The most honest thing you can say
right now is to say we don't

1105
01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:17.119
know right right, right, but
there are things that we do know.

1106
01:17:17.359 --> 01:17:23.079
You do believe that there are things
that we do know though right there are

1107
01:17:23.079 --> 01:17:26.439
things that we are confident in.
Man. We also don't know how many

1108
01:17:26.600 --> 01:17:30.560
attempts quote unquote there were at the
creation of a universe, and even that

1109
01:17:30.600 --> 01:17:34.760
word creation is really problematic. There
is a singularity that exists that we cannot

1110
01:17:34.800 --> 01:17:41.399
look past right now, and to
suggest otherwise is just using God as some

1111
01:17:41.479 --> 01:17:45.000
excuse to fill in all of the
gaps. Again, this idea of post

1112
01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:47.960
hoc rationalization comes up, where we
say, well, the universe exists,

1113
01:17:48.159 --> 01:17:51.399
and as far as we can tell. In order for a universe too exists,

1114
01:17:51.479 --> 01:17:57.279
it has to have these components.
So therefore, God, it doesn't

1115
01:17:57.279 --> 01:18:01.239
work out that way. You don't
know how many possibilities there were for all

1116
01:18:01.239 --> 01:18:05.239
of this to happen, and to
suggest that it proves anything is a little

1117
01:18:05.239 --> 01:18:10.960
off point. Well, there are
two other there are two other um possible

1118
01:18:11.239 --> 01:18:18.279
or possibilities. One is the eternal
ternal inflation and then the crunchdown effect,

1119
01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:23.520
which is we're like if gravity was
too strong by one. Things are all

1120
01:18:23.840 --> 01:18:28.680
hypothetical the universe, Well, these
are all hypothetical. We don't have we

1121
01:18:29.039 --> 01:18:33.199
don't have realistic evidence that these are
are happening. We have theory and we

1122
01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:38.720
have hypothetical situations. But it sounds
like you are It sounds like you are

1123
01:18:39.079 --> 01:18:44.439
like taking these hypotheticals and then considering
them to be just as good as like

1124
01:18:44.600 --> 01:18:46.800
experimental reality. I mean, it's
the best we can do. That we

1125
01:18:46.840 --> 01:18:50.640
can't mean, yeah, but the
best we can do does not mean that

1126
01:18:50.680 --> 01:18:55.399
it's sufficient to prove the point.
Right, So do you think that these

1127
01:18:55.439 --> 01:18:59.399
simulated models are have any value at
all? I think they have some value.

1128
01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:00.920
I don't think they have the value
you're giving them. I think that

1129
01:19:01.000 --> 01:19:04.640
it's a step to learn about things, and I do think that theory is

1130
01:19:04.680 --> 01:19:09.920
a good way to start asking questions, like I think that there is value

1131
01:19:09.960 --> 01:19:14.680
to theoretical questions and theoretical models.
There's definitely value, But the problem is

1132
01:19:14.720 --> 01:19:17.159
when you're saying that the value is
greater than it actually is. And that's

1133
01:19:17.199 --> 01:19:21.359
what I'm pushing back on because I
think theory gets you to the point of

1134
01:19:21.479 --> 01:19:27.119
asking the question and figuring out how
we could demonstrate it in reality. But

1135
01:19:27.279 --> 01:19:30.840
until you make that step to actually
demonstrate it in reality, we're limited in

1136
01:19:30.960 --> 01:19:34.479
what conclusions we can draw from it. And that's why I push backwards.

1137
01:19:34.520 --> 01:19:38.039
And I'm a little bit curious,
billy, like, what is what is

1138
01:19:38.039 --> 01:19:43.760
your background? Until so, until
we can make universes in reality, then

1139
01:19:44.640 --> 01:19:49.880
you don't believe that any any experimental
data that we create, you know,

1140
01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:54.560
in supercomputers and solids. I think
I think if we could, if we

1141
01:19:54.600 --> 01:19:58.399
could make experiment, if we could
make experiments, if we could make a

1142
01:19:58.439 --> 01:20:00.560
convincing experiments, I might change to
my mind. But the problem is everything

1143
01:20:00.560 --> 01:20:04.319
you've mentioned is theoretical, so and
I don't know what it would take to

1144
01:20:04.319 --> 01:20:09.920
convince me that we have enough evidence. But if someone brought that evidence,

1145
01:20:09.960 --> 01:20:13.159
I might be willing to change my
mind. But Billy, what is what

1146
01:20:13.359 --> 01:20:16.319
is your educational background on this particular
field? I don't want to talk about

1147
01:20:16.319 --> 01:20:18.520
me. I'd rather talk about my
argument now I want to I know,

1148
01:20:18.600 --> 01:20:23.239
I'm curious, like are are you
a physicist? Like are you in some

1149
01:20:23.319 --> 01:20:26.600
branch of science? Like what is
what is your education on that? I

1150
01:20:26.720 --> 01:20:32.520
prefer to specific to my argument and
not talk about me personally. Seems to

1151
01:20:32.640 --> 01:20:38.760
lack any sort of Credentially, it
seems to lack any sort of sophisticated understanding

1152
01:20:38.800 --> 01:20:41.640
of these models that we're discussing.
You point out that these models have been

1153
01:20:41.640 --> 01:20:45.960
around for one hundred years. So
what I'm unimpressed by all of this,

1154
01:20:45.119 --> 01:20:49.600
and I think that to continue to
say, I'm not trying to mischaracterize what

1155
01:20:49.640 --> 01:20:55.279
you're saying, but what you are
saying is that these models prove and that

1156
01:20:55.399 --> 01:20:59.600
feels really weak. Well, I
mean, they come up the present conclusions,

1157
01:21:00.239 --> 01:21:03.479
they present a few of you know, hypotheticals, they present discussions,

1158
01:21:03.680 --> 01:21:09.159
and when when someone gives writes a
paper and they have a conclusion section of

1159
01:21:09.239 --> 01:21:14.640
their paper, that isn't necessarily saying
that they actually provided a whole lot of

1160
01:21:14.680 --> 01:21:17.399
evidence, like they might claim in
their conclusion that that is what happened and

1161
01:21:17.439 --> 01:21:20.520
that that's a different story. But
but just saying that a study has a

1162
01:21:20.520 --> 01:21:27.399
conclusion written in it doesn't mean that
they actually concluded that there's evidence for X,

1163
01:21:27.600 --> 01:21:30.239
Y or Z. And like,
like what Christy is saying, the

1164
01:21:30.279 --> 01:21:31.920
reason why I'm asking you about your
background is is, Yeah, like,

1165
01:21:32.239 --> 01:21:38.640
I think the level of confidence you
have in certain things is not the level

1166
01:21:38.680 --> 01:21:42.439
of confidence that many scientists would have. And it's I think a lot of

1167
01:21:42.439 --> 01:21:45.439
scientists approach these issues with more caution. And there's a reason why you get

1168
01:21:45.479 --> 01:21:49.439
a lot of conservative language in studies
of saying like, under these very spec

1169
01:21:49.800 --> 01:21:56.640
specific circumstances, this might be something
that happens, or this might be related,

1170
01:21:56.720 --> 01:22:00.840
This might be a correlation, this
might be have a also a relationship.

1171
01:22:00.920 --> 01:22:03.720
Like there's very rarely are they going
to say that they are like nineties

1172
01:22:03.760 --> 01:22:10.079
something percent confident that this is a
cause of relationship. Like like, it

1173
01:22:10.159 --> 01:22:14.560
tends to be a lot more conservative
in how they how confident they are in

1174
01:22:14.600 --> 01:22:16.680
these claims. And so that's why, like, and I see this a

1175
01:22:16.680 --> 01:22:23.239
lot with late people especially will will
take in information and kind of misread what

1176
01:22:23.279 --> 01:22:27.840
the data is saying and misread what
the discussion is happening a lot of times,

1177
01:22:27.880 --> 01:22:30.920
it's trying to lead to more study
to be done on it. So

1178
01:22:31.239 --> 01:22:35.920
can I ask how how did you
determine my confidence level in my argument based

1179
01:22:35.960 --> 01:22:40.600
on what you said? And that
where are you saying that that I seem

1180
01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:45.439
so extremely confident, Like I think
my confident because you made it because Billy,

1181
01:22:45.479 --> 01:22:48.039
you made the argument that, Billy, you made the argument that we've

1182
01:22:48.159 --> 01:22:54.560
studied this for hundreds of one hundred
years and that the supercomputers are like as

1183
01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:59.600
close to realities we can get,
and then therefore we can make these these

1184
01:22:59.720 --> 01:23:03.039
big conclusions like you've said, compared
those like you actually having a universe,

1185
01:23:03.239 --> 01:23:08.560
that we have these simulated universes.
Okay, well that's the argument that back

1186
01:23:08.600 --> 01:23:13.000
and listen to the beginning of the
argument you made to the point where you

1187
01:23:13.039 --> 01:23:15.800
actually what are you doing with that? What I said was that Lester TG

1188
01:23:15.960 --> 01:23:19.880
three hundred matches with what we see
in reality when they run that simulation.

1189
01:23:20.159 --> 01:23:24.119
It does match with what we see
in reality. So I didn't I didn't

1190
01:23:24.119 --> 01:23:27.399
say that that's as good as we
can get, but but it does match

1191
01:23:27.439 --> 01:23:29.680
with what we see in reality if
you can look it up. The point

1192
01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:31.279
so what was your point? So
what was your point in bringing that up?

1193
01:23:31.319 --> 01:23:34.039
Then? Well, I mean in
that part of the conversation where we

1194
01:23:34.039 --> 01:23:40.439
were talking about you know, the
um you know, precision of simulation.

1195
01:23:40.520 --> 01:23:43.520
This is so and they're pretty good, right, and you and you displayed

1196
01:23:43.520 --> 01:23:48.680
a lot of confidence that the simulations
could accurately account for variables in reality that

1197
01:23:48.760 --> 01:23:53.520
would make you convince that that universe
is fine. Tune. Yeah, we

1198
01:23:53.600 --> 01:23:56.840
plug in the variables that we account
for, but there are plenty of variables

1199
01:23:56.840 --> 01:23:58.920
that we don't account for. And
so that was my point, and it

1200
01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:02.079
seemed like your level of confidence is
higher than mine. Wait, how do

1201
01:24:02.079 --> 01:24:04.840
you know that? How do you
know that? Because there's always variables that

1202
01:24:04.880 --> 01:24:09.520
we can't account for it, there's
always variables we can't And so this is

1203
01:24:09.560 --> 01:24:12.359
again, Billy, this is why
I think that, this is why I

1204
01:24:12.760 --> 01:24:15.479
tend to think that you don't have
as much foundation in this, because it's

1205
01:24:15.560 --> 01:24:21.039
extremely overly confident and and inaccurate with
reality to say that they're that we've accounted

1206
01:24:21.079 --> 01:24:26.640
for all. But you're just saying
that there are always variables that we're accountable.

1207
01:24:26.680 --> 01:24:29.119
How do you know that? Yeah, I am saying that that we

1208
01:24:30.359 --> 01:24:35.159
I mean, that's why it's a
simulation. Yes, because we don't know

1209
01:24:35.279 --> 01:24:41.239
everything, and the computers that we
build don't know everything. We cannot know

1210
01:24:41.319 --> 01:24:44.479
everything. There's there are very few
things that I will make an absolute statement

1211
01:24:44.479 --> 01:24:47.760
about, but that is one that
we do not know everything. We know

1212
01:24:47.960 --> 01:24:53.640
enough to we know enough to make
simulations that close and again and again,

1213
01:24:53.760 --> 01:24:59.199
simulations are are not actual reality.
They are theoretical. And I think we're

1214
01:24:59.239 --> 01:25:01.720
not getting anywhere with this call.
So I think I think, yeah,

1215
01:25:01.760 --> 01:25:05.000
these simulations are pretty good. Ben
like, don't don't put words in his

1216
01:25:05.079 --> 01:25:09.319
mouth. He's not confident in them. They're just pretty good. I don't

1217
01:25:09.319 --> 01:25:14.680
know what to do with any model
is well debunked. Yeah, you guys,

1218
01:25:14.680 --> 01:25:15.880
have a good day. Um,
it was a very nice talking to

1219
01:25:15.920 --> 01:25:19.600
you guys. I appreciate the conversation. Hey care, thank you. All

1220
01:25:19.680 --> 01:25:24.079
Right, we are going to go
a little bit over because there's one caller

1221
01:25:24.680 --> 01:25:28.680
left and I really want to get
to them. UM, so let's talk

1222
01:25:28.720 --> 01:25:32.600
to Romy she Her in Israel.
It sounds like you want to talk about

1223
01:25:32.680 --> 01:25:38.279
losing, uh, your friends,
losing their religious beliefs. Um, can

1224
01:25:38.319 --> 01:25:42.720
you tell us just really quickly kind
of about what led to this call okay.

1225
01:25:43.000 --> 01:25:47.039
So, I've been an atheist for
a long time, and um,

1226
01:25:47.279 --> 01:25:51.680
one of my friends recently who used
to have like arguments in the basis with

1227
01:25:51.800 --> 01:26:00.000
all the time, told me that
she's sort of fusing her religion and it's

1228
01:26:00.079 --> 01:26:06.000
because a few analogies and examples I
gave her, which I'm fine with.

1229
01:26:06.279 --> 01:26:11.159
Value is completely fine. You know, everyone is on their on their own

1230
01:26:11.239 --> 01:26:15.880
journey, and I was on that
journey as well. I'm an atheist and

1231
01:26:15.960 --> 01:26:21.239
I support that truly. However,
it is causing her great distress, and

1232
01:26:21.319 --> 01:26:26.079
it's one of my first friends who
ever like been through something like this.

1233
01:26:26.439 --> 01:26:30.880
And I don't know how how hard
it is myself going from being Jewish and

1234
01:26:30.079 --> 01:26:36.000
being in a religious school and then
slowly because of scientific evidence and that's slowly

1235
01:26:38.199 --> 01:26:41.760
going through my own journey. So
I don't really know how to deal with

1236
01:26:41.800 --> 01:26:45.319
this because I'm kind of feel like
I'm guilty, and I know how to

1237
01:26:45.359 --> 01:26:49.359
approach debates like this in the future
considering what I feel in a sense,

1238
01:26:50.560 --> 01:26:56.399
And that's basically it. Because religious
people tend to test the belief it's an

1239
01:26:56.399 --> 01:27:03.479
atheist and that's betey No. I
hear that sense of personal responsibility and guilt

1240
01:27:03.560 --> 01:27:05.760
here, and I guess I just
want to speak to that piece of it

1241
01:27:05.880 --> 01:27:12.119
first. You know, if you
were out about town and you saw your

1242
01:27:12.439 --> 01:27:16.760
best friend's partner touching or being intimate
with somebody who is not your best friend

1243
01:27:16.880 --> 01:27:20.640
in a situation where you know that's
cheating, where you know that that's not

1244
01:27:20.760 --> 01:27:25.199
okay, and you go and tell
your friend about what you saw, they're

1245
01:27:25.199 --> 01:27:27.720
gonna be hurt. And if you're
a dick about it and you're like,

1246
01:27:28.159 --> 01:27:30.399
you're not gonna believe what I saw, then yeah, you're being cruel and

1247
01:27:30.560 --> 01:27:35.119
unkind, But you don't need to
feel guilty about what you're sharing. If

1248
01:27:35.119 --> 01:27:39.279
what you're sharing is true, you
know, the fact that your friend is

1249
01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:43.520
being hurt in that scenario is because
they were being cheated on, not because

1250
01:27:43.560 --> 01:27:45.960
you shared that with them. And
the fact that your friend is going through

1251
01:27:46.000 --> 01:27:50.239
this deconversion experience, I appreciate why
there might be a sense of guilt.

1252
01:27:50.239 --> 01:27:56.520
And yeah, it's not universally true
that everybody would be happier after they lose

1253
01:27:56.560 --> 01:28:00.560
their faith or after they deconvert,
but it's also not your all that they're

1254
01:28:00.560 --> 01:28:03.399
going through this pain. This is
the pain that comes from being lied to

1255
01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:08.039
by your culture, by your society, by your authority figures, by your

1256
01:28:08.039 --> 01:28:11.960
family. This is a pain that
you did not cause. And I just

1257
01:28:12.000 --> 01:28:15.239
want to start there, even as
you're trying to figure out, well,

1258
01:28:15.239 --> 01:28:18.079
how should I feel about all of
this and how can I offer some support

1259
01:28:18.119 --> 01:28:20.920
in this challenging time? How does
all of that lane? Is that fair

1260
01:28:20.960 --> 01:28:28.960
to say? I guess there is. However, I do believe that our

1261
01:28:29.119 --> 01:28:35.560
face is just one aspect on which
I mean the friends you to disagreeing.

1262
01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:42.239
You know, there's one thing.
If someone's like a hardcore right wing Jewish

1263
01:28:42.239 --> 01:28:49.000
person or fundamental Christian, they vote
a certain way and they advocate for a

1264
01:28:49.000 --> 01:28:53.479
certain thing, Well that's not the
taste with her, you know, So

1265
01:28:54.000 --> 01:28:59.880
I guess I just don't see the
benefit in it, considering the fact that

1266
01:29:00.039 --> 01:29:03.279
she's been through so much. And
I understand that knowing the truth is always

1267
01:29:03.279 --> 01:29:10.039
better, of course, but it's
that's why I feel guilty, because that's

1268
01:29:10.039 --> 01:29:14.520
the kind of person where I don't
mind if they remain in their face because

1269
01:29:14.560 --> 01:29:18.800
they still do the right thing despite
it, whereas many people do not in

1270
01:29:18.880 --> 01:29:23.720
their face caused them to do horrible
hope of things. And those are the

1271
01:29:23.720 --> 01:29:28.520
people I should like put my efforts
on if I even put NFL on more,

1272
01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:32.479
I don't know. It's just really
confusing. And yeah, I mean,

1273
01:29:32.479 --> 01:29:36.600
you feel like Santa clause for somebody, and I get that. I

1274
01:29:36.760 --> 01:29:41.439
you know, if you were to
go into a kindergarten and just announce to

1275
01:29:41.479 --> 01:29:45.039
all the children listening that there is
no Santa clause, dick move, don't

1276
01:29:45.079 --> 01:29:49.640
do that. And yet I feel
no discomfort whatsoever sitting here on the Internet

1277
01:29:49.680 --> 01:29:54.880
in front of an audience of possibly
thousands or more talking about how there is

1278
01:29:54.920 --> 01:29:59.680
no Santa clause because it's just true
and it's better for people to know that.

1279
01:30:00.079 --> 01:30:04.000
Generally speaking, if you were forceful
or aggressive or unkind in the way

1280
01:30:04.039 --> 01:30:08.560
that you sort of asserted these ideas, then you know, perhaps there are

1281
01:30:08.600 --> 01:30:12.399
some apologies to be made. But
if that's not the case, if this

1282
01:30:12.520 --> 01:30:16.680
is just you speaking openly and honestly
about things that are true and it had

1283
01:30:16.720 --> 01:30:21.039
an effect on somebody, you can
still take some ownership and some responsibility for

1284
01:30:21.079 --> 01:30:27.520
that impact. You can still offer
care and support and resources and acceptance and

1285
01:30:27.680 --> 01:30:31.319
everything else. But I would hope
that you could give yourself permission to let

1286
01:30:31.439 --> 01:30:36.239
go of any feelings of guilt or
shame over the fact that you said true

1287
01:30:36.319 --> 01:30:41.880
things to someone that is important to
you, and I really quick want to

1288
01:30:42.520 --> 01:30:45.039
Yeah, I want to quickly jump
in and say that this is a great

1289
01:30:45.079 --> 01:30:51.079
place to recommend an organization that we
talk about a lot. Recovering from religion

1290
01:30:51.159 --> 01:30:57.640
can help your friend probably and you
as well if you're struggling with this particular

1291
01:30:57.680 --> 01:31:00.880
issue and want somebody to talk to
more in debt up to about how to

1292
01:31:00.960 --> 01:31:03.600
move forward with your feelings on this
and also for your friend to be able

1293
01:31:03.640 --> 01:31:10.760
to talk to somebody and work out
kind of their feelings about their deconstruction and

1294
01:31:10.840 --> 01:31:15.960
deconversion process. Um. They're very
good and they have volunteers available at all

1295
01:31:16.000 --> 01:31:19.520
times and they can walk you kind
of through that process of where to go

1296
01:31:19.640 --> 01:31:25.039
next. So UM, I can't
shout them enough, but highly recommend you

1297
01:31:25.159 --> 01:31:29.479
and your friend go to the link
is here at the bottom of the screen

1298
01:31:29.760 --> 01:31:32.439
if you're interested in that. Highly
recommend for both. Thank you, sure

1299
01:31:32.560 --> 01:31:36.239
anything else so we can help with
you with today? Um, thank you

1300
01:31:36.279 --> 01:31:40.479
very much. I certainly hope,
yeah, glad to hear it. I

1301
01:31:40.520 --> 01:31:45.119
certainly hope that you can find some
peace in all of this and just remember

1302
01:31:45.239 --> 01:31:48.239
that, yeah, there is pain
here. There is distress here, but

1303
01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:54.600
that pain comes from living in a
society, be existing in a culture that

1304
01:31:54.760 --> 01:31:59.840
is riddled with lies and magical thinking. You romy, Ben and I like

1305
01:32:00.159 --> 01:32:03.479
none of us caused that pain.
We're just trying to do our small part

1306
01:32:03.640 --> 01:32:06.960
in being part of the cure.
Thank you so much for giving us a

1307
01:32:06.960 --> 01:32:10.680
call and trusting us with your story
today. Yeah, thank you so much

1308
01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:15.000
for calling. And I'd love to
hear back from you about how it all

1309
01:32:15.039 --> 01:32:16.760
goes in the future if you're if
you feel comfortable, of course, So

1310
01:32:18.239 --> 01:32:23.239
all right, have a good rest
of your Sunday. And that was the

1311
01:32:23.319 --> 01:32:26.239
last call of the day. So
how do you think I went today,

1312
01:32:26.319 --> 01:32:29.600
Christy? Hey, I mean it
was a good time. I there are

1313
01:32:29.720 --> 01:32:35.800
legitimate confusions, complications, like things
to be upset about with regards to pornography

1314
01:32:36.119 --> 01:32:41.159
and sex work. I mean,
there's so many real things to be really

1315
01:32:41.319 --> 01:32:45.880
angry about. And I am,
I guess just still crossing my fingers waiting

1316
01:32:45.920 --> 01:32:49.319
for the day that somebody calls in
with something other than because God said so

1317
01:32:50.079 --> 01:32:54.520
exactly, And that's why we're here
doing a show like this because and all

1318
01:32:54.560 --> 01:32:59.960
the time talk Ethan has been a
thing very rarely has somebody attempted and argue

1319
01:33:00.399 --> 01:33:05.960
about porn and not relying on a
religious argument. But we're still not convinced

1320
01:33:06.079 --> 01:33:10.439
that that porn's a bad thing.
So you can always call them the future

1321
01:33:10.479 --> 01:33:14.399
if if you've got some inspiration now
and you really want to have the conversation,

1322
01:33:14.680 --> 01:33:17.640
you can also call them to a
XP which will be on this afternoon

1323
01:33:17.720 --> 01:33:20.760
if you still have some burning thoughts
about porn and really want to bring that

1324
01:33:20.840 --> 01:33:25.840
up there as well. But if
you if you like the show today,

1325
01:33:25.840 --> 01:33:30.520
and if you like what you see
on all the other ACA channels, you

1326
01:33:30.560 --> 01:33:33.760
can get these shows all of the
time. We have two twenty four seven

1327
01:33:33.840 --> 01:33:41.079
live streams XPTV delivering a constant stream
of shows, clips and specials over the

1328
01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:45.880
twenty six seasons of the eighth As
Experience. And now we have talk Heathen

1329
01:33:45.960 --> 01:33:48.680
TV or it's called Heathen TV that
provides you eclipse from Talk Heathen. You

1330
01:33:48.720 --> 01:33:54.079
can watch or listen and watch your
favorite hosts and discover some hosts that you've

1331
01:33:54.119 --> 01:33:58.920
never heard of. You can visit
tiny dot cc slash XPTV and tiny dot

1332
01:33:58.920 --> 01:34:01.920
cc slash he than TV to join
in on that. And just a reminder,

1333
01:34:01.960 --> 01:34:06.000
the prompt for this week is what
is a prayer request that would raise

1334
01:34:06.079 --> 01:34:10.560
eyebrows in a place of worship?
Reply in the comments and tune in at

1335
01:34:10.560 --> 01:34:14.399
the beginning of next week to hear
the top three answers. You can also

1336
01:34:14.560 --> 01:34:17.640
again show some support like the video, subscribe to the channel. Those are

1337
01:34:17.680 --> 01:34:23.039
some easy, easy free ways to
support the content and help us get out

1338
01:34:23.079 --> 01:34:27.159
to more people. And if you
are able to contribute financially, you can

1339
01:34:27.359 --> 01:34:30.119
become a member by clicking the joint
button below the video. You can support

1340
01:34:30.199 --> 01:34:34.640
us on Patreon at tiny dot cc
slash Patreon. H and don't forget that

1341
01:34:34.680 --> 01:34:39.279
you can watch all of the shows
of the ACA or I guess not watch

1342
01:34:39.359 --> 01:34:42.079
them, you can listen to them
in audio podcast form. I guess you

1343
01:34:42.079 --> 01:34:45.039
can try to watch. If you
can figure out how to watch an audio

1344
01:34:45.079 --> 01:34:48.239
podcast, We need to talk about
are you? Can you listen to an

1345
01:34:48.279 --> 01:34:54.840
audiobook like we need We need a
more developed language. English has some it

1346
01:34:54.840 --> 01:34:59.039
has some gaps, indeed, but
you can find the audio podcast at tiny

1347
01:34:59.079 --> 01:35:01.560
dot cc slash a n podcasts.
And you can become part of the Talk

1348
01:35:01.640 --> 01:35:08.159
Heathen community in our fan run facebook
page at tiny dot cc slash FBTHG and

1349
01:35:08.239 --> 01:35:11.920
if you want to continue the discussion, you can join us in a CD

1350
01:35:12.119 --> 01:35:16.119
our fan run discord at tiny dot
cc slash ACD discord. We're going to

1351
01:35:16.199 --> 01:35:19.680
head over there after this show today
for a few minutes, so be sure

1352
01:35:19.760 --> 01:35:24.199
to stop by. And of course, there are some very important people working

1353
01:35:24.399 --> 01:35:27.239
non stop behind the scenes to make
us look as good as we do on

1354
01:35:27.279 --> 01:35:30.680
this show. So let's go to
the crewcam. Thank you for everything that

1355
01:35:30.720 --> 01:35:33.439
you do. Crew. Always good
to see you supporting us from behind the

1356
01:35:33.439 --> 01:35:38.119
scenes. We could not do it
without you. That's sicular sexuality. Sure,

1357
01:35:38.199 --> 01:35:41.159
just gotta shout that out. Oh
yes, yes, it's a great,

1358
01:35:41.239 --> 01:35:43.840
great show. Check out the bad
catalog. We talk a lot about

1359
01:35:43.840 --> 01:35:47.960
pornography, Oh absolutely. If you
want to watch more shows relate it to

1360
01:35:48.079 --> 01:35:53.159
porn, you can. And as
I've related to, not specifically porn,

1361
01:35:53.279 --> 01:35:56.680
but talking about porn pretty much any
show that Christie is on. I'm sure

1362
01:35:56.760 --> 01:36:01.960
you don't mention Google. Let's throw
out some love rings for the audience.

1363
01:36:03.520 --> 01:36:08.199
Our magic isn't working. God,
we wouldn't pray hard enough for the show.

1364
01:36:08.239 --> 01:36:11.359
And so that's there we go.
All right, we figured it out.

1365
01:36:11.399 --> 01:36:14.159
Thank you to all of our viewers. Thank you for being here,

1366
01:36:14.239 --> 01:36:17.159
Thank you for listening to Christy and
me talk about porn for like ninety minutes.

1367
01:36:17.199 --> 01:36:20.600
It's been a great time. And
whether or not you believe, if

1368
01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:25.079
you're an essential worker, please continue
what you're doing. I hope you've got

1369
01:36:25.119 --> 01:36:29.359
some positive outlets. And if you
have a really hard job that you go

1370
01:36:29.399 --> 01:36:31.920
out and do every day or even
most days of the week, and you

1371
01:36:32.000 --> 01:36:35.520
need some time for yourself, it
is okay to masturbate. In fact,

1372
01:36:35.560 --> 01:36:39.840
if that helps you get through your
week, we highly recommend that you take

1373
01:36:39.880 --> 01:36:45.319
some time for that, of course
inappropriate context and not around anybody that does

1374
01:36:45.359 --> 01:36:49.319
not consent. Just make sure,
kind but give you some big old orgasm.

1375
01:36:49.479 --> 01:36:53.920
Yes, give yourself a big old
orgasm. And if you don't believe,

1376
01:36:54.000 --> 01:36:57.520
this is your community. So if
you want to talk about porn in

1377
01:36:57.920 --> 01:37:00.079
the ac D after the show,
you'll free to do that. We're a

1378
01:37:00.119 --> 01:37:03.680
great community for talking about these things. Go to the Facebook group, have

1379
01:37:03.800 --> 01:37:09.159
some fun with each other consensually and
safely. This is just this is just

1380
01:37:09.199 --> 01:37:13.479
becoming a sex said outro at this
point. And if you do believe,

1381
01:37:13.680 --> 01:37:29.199
we don't hate you, We're just
not convinced by really We want the truth,

1382
01:37:29.319 --> 01:37:33.359
so watch Truth Wanted Live Friday at
seven pm Central. Visit tiny dot

1383
01:37:33.359 --> 01:37:39.560
cc slash y t tw and call
into the show at five one two nine

1384
01:37:39.720 --> 01:37:44.079
nine one nine two four two,
or connect to the show. I'mline at

1385
01:37:44.159 --> 01:37:46.000
tiny dot cc slash call tw