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It's the intelligent thing to do. We are recording this program on the
sixteenth of February. Speaking of dates, February twenty fourth will mark one year
since Russia's brutal an illegal assault began on the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Since
that time, the Ukrainians have offered a fierce resistance, vowing that the Russians
will never succeed in conquering their country. However, the cost is been considerable,
with tens of thousands of dead on both sides. Many of those dead
have been Ukrainian citizens, deliberately targeted by Russian President Vladimir Putin and his cabal
of thugs to bring Ukraine to its knees. Needless to say, it's not
working. The struggle continues, but one still must contemplate how many more must
die in their fight for freedom. We are now enjoyed once again lie from
Ukraine by two of the most intrepid men that I've ever known. First,
Yuri Matarski has transformed himself, like many Ukrainians, from a normal life as
a radio broadcaster to a warrior fighting for his country's freedom on the front lines.
He joins us from the fierce fighting in the Don Boss region. Our
second guest is a man I'm proud to call colleague. He has covered most
of the world's major conflicts and has dedicated his latest mission to tell of the
Ukrainian struggle for freedom. He has been there since the beginning. Mister Philtner,
gentleman, thank you so much for joining us to be here. I
want to begin with Urie because Uri has limited time. He can only spend
about fifteen minutes with us, so I would like to begin with him,
and then we'll take a quick break, and then Phil will join us full
time, but of course he can jump in at any time and add his
perspective to what Yuri has to say. You again, you've been with us
once before, early on in the conflict, and we're grateful that you join
us once again. If you would please tell us your current condition. Where
are you now. I'm now serving in the army. As I joined the
army on the second day of the war. I'm still serving in the army
almost a year now. I'm my unity is located in Dunbus region. This
is region. Most part of it, or a large part of it,
is under Russian occupation. The fiercest battle of this war is now waging in
Hearing dun Bust around a town of Bahmut, which is greatly partly destroyed and
a lot of seages. A lot of towns around Bahmut are also destroyed by
artillery and rocket fire. So I am now here near near the hottest spot
of this period of war. Urieu. As we mentioned, and as you
has mentioned, you joined on the second day of the war, and you
were a radio broadcast or journalist as Phil and myself or and it's not a
try question because obviously your life has changed, but you describe it for us?
How How has it changed from an everyday existence to one of literally fighting
for your life on a daily basis. I think that's something most of us
find almost inconceivable. Can can you possibly put us there? Yeah? I'll
try to to to describe it, but I'll, you know, I'll start
to if something really, really sort things from home, things from ordinary life.
I was talking to my daughter a few days ago via Internet, of
course, and she asked me, also, what is going on in my
how my life changed for from the beginning of from the third days of war.
And I don't know why, but I suddenly understood that for a year,
or almost for a year, I didn't buy any piece of of civilian
clothes. You know, I don't buy any piece of I don't buy any
shorts, any T shirts civilian I mean, I don't buy any any boots
or civilian civilian sneakers. So I'm always wearing the military uniform. I'm always
doing the military job. I have a small connection with my pre war life
because I'm doing the English language podcast Fighting for Ukraine. You can find it,
find it on a pot being page and on all other platforms. I'm
trying to do it on the I mean I was. I was at the
beginning of the war. I was making it on the daily basis. Now
it's really really hard to meet to do to to do it on the daily
basis because we are always moving, We are always on the move, and
it's not always possible because of you know, you know, of my nervous
condition. Sometimes I'm really on the virtue of a nervous breakdown because I see
a lot of really really bad things all around me. I see a lot
of towns and cities really really really badly destroyed or damaged by Russian fire.
For example, of the city of Issume, near my native heartif is destroyed,
almost eighty eighty persons of all buildings are destroyed or partly damaged. Where
and when you saw the people, saw people living in the basements, so
living in the in the houses without the wall or even without two walls,
in the cold, freezing web. It's it's really really so for me,
it's really hard to see and really hard to understand that, you know,
only year ago it was a nice, beautiful, rich city and the people
we were happy living their ordinary lives in their apartments, in their houses,
and now they're just for understanding. A lot of people in the down pass
region in uh in surrounded areas can it see even can it see um uh
coot food for a four months for a week, so we only have some
kind of can't foods from volunteers or from soldiers who are always ready to share
their meals with the local population and it really really hurts me. So always
understanding my latest podcast, I think it it's it published right now while we
are talking. It should be published. I'm talking in this podcast about about
my really bead scenervous condition after I stumbled upon a straight doc was the female
dog who was really really really hungry and looking for some kind of food and
warm and protection, and I couldn't do I couldn't do anything for for this
creature. And so yeah, my life completely changed completely and I really want
to to to to to to come back, to return to my to my
previous life, to my work as a journalist, to my work as a
radio host. Very it's extraordinary. We can we can only imagine if here
I'm choking up too, and I know you are, the imagery is Can
it ever be the same? I mean with theoretically the war can't last forever.
I know the Ukrainians are prepared to fight forever. I know you are.
I know Phil will reiterate that that the Ukrainians will never give up.
I know that. But at some point there has to be an end to
the war. Can there be a return to normalcy? Can you ever go
back to being what you once were you were. You know a lot of
places which we are not occupied, or which they're free from the occupation,
or which or from each the frontline we are moved. For example, give
the place the place where I was living before, before we were oh,
my native which was you know, in the circle of Russian forces for a
lot of months and was sharing on daily basis with thousands and thousands of rockets
and projectiles, and were almost I can I can say that vis cities or
Vise towns are almost completely returned to the pre world life. We have some
exception, of course, because because we're are still a curve few uh in
in almost all the Ukraine Ukrainian cities and towns, of course we're mostly in
Karkie. We're a lot of damage to or destroyed buildings. But you can
find the people. You're not just walking around where you can find people going
to dates. You can find the open pops, restaurants, theaters, cinemas.
Frank, Frank, there's there's something and your he probably won't say this,
Your he probably won't say this without jump in here and just say something
about argued. I was out in Herkie about six weeks ago, and if
you didn't know that Arkieve was at the center of one of the most fierce
battles in Ukraine. It's it's almost it's very difficult to recognize it because vic
pride in Herkie is enormous and they're very proud of the fact that they didn't
waste any time at all in cleaning up the city and starting repairs. So
the spirit of the Ukrainian people to recover is happening now. They're not waiting
until after the war. They're already, especially in a place like Harkie,
starting to rebuild. And it's it's a real testament to the strength of the
Ukrainian people that they will not let their cities, their lives, their homes
be damaged, and certainly not their spirit. So I'm sure Yuri knows this,
but they're they're very modest, proud people in Ukraine, and maybe they
wouldn't say it, so allow me to say it. I am always impressed
with the strength of spirit of the Ukrainian people. And Harky will return,
Kramatours will return, Mariopal will return, all of the places they will return,
because Ukraine is a very proud, strong country and I am humbled constantly
how the strength of what they're living through so that I can attest them personally.
Well, that's that's a perfect leading. And I'm watching the clock here
and I want to be on top of it so that Uri is not putting
any danger. And he gave us fifteen minutes so quickly with that in mind.
And we all believe that. We all see it here regularly with reports
like yours and Phils who also does a YouTube channel, etc. And the
nightly news reports. But you're you're facing a spring offensive. I think it's
inevitable. And many people said it's already begun, which means more fighting,
more hardship. How is the overall morale of the troops where you are?
Could you share that with us? I can tell you, oh, you
know all the things which is which is going around me, But I for
sure I can tell you that people, all the people I talk with,
all the all the my comrades, all the commanders of all this uh Ukrainian
army, all the civilian defenders are ready to fight till the end. There
is no some kind of you know, hesitations, There is not some kind
of covert dis Yeah, it's it's really brutal and it's really bloody war.
And people who are here, people who are joined the army, people who
are still joining the army, most of them were they really understand what is
going on and they can see that there are a lot of a lot of
blood. We can see where are a lot of dead, people are injured
people, a lot of seriously injured people. But we're ready to defend our
homeland. We're ready to do an if even sacrifice our lives to for a
victory because we have we have a lot of things where we have a lot
of values, what we need to protect, what we need to defend.
We don't want to be a part of this, you know, this evil
of this evil, ungodly empire of Putting and his people. We don't want
it. It's just just better to die fight and went to leave and under
like, I gotta asked this question YOURII, how are you shorted for artillery
shelves? I know there's a lot of talk about a lack of artillery and
secondly, you could you talk about the inhumane tactics that Russian Russia is using
with their own troops, like just sending poorly equipped and poorly trained soldiers to
just die on your defensive positions. I can't tell you anything about art because
in my in my units, there is not any huge artilly or only mortars
and we have uh as I see, and as I know, we have
enough for shells for mortars. We have enough mortar shills. And yeah,
I'm so hurt about the meat waves or Russian are using trying to to get
Ukrainian positions. We're really sending wave after wave of um poorly equipped or sometimes
even not at all trained people in Russian uniform, but very often it's we're
armed only with rifles, with assault rifles, with no real protection from any
kind of of our fire. Uh, we've you know, we're the first
wave or the main mission of the first wave of the first couple of waves
needs to unmask Ukrainian positions. So we are it's suicide missions for mission for
them. We need to only to to discover where Ukrainian artillery or where Ukrainian
fighters are. We're dining completely or almost completely, and the next waves are
trying to storm the Ukrainian positions which you're discovered unmarked by these first meat waves.
It's, you know, it looks like it looks like we're done.
I think First of World War something like this, and they have a lot
of you know, miles and miles and miles of trenches. We have miles
of trenches, we have we have meat waves of Russian soldiers. Sometimes it
really reminds me of what I know about the First of World War. Interesting,
Eury. We could continue, but we've we've already given us a little
bit of overtime. And I don't want to put you in jeopardy. But
please, first and foremost always I say the same thing the film, and
we mean it with all our hearts. Please be safe. We support you,
We your your your lust for freedom is felt throughout the world. Fill
you, thank you, thank you so much. Hit on Slava and I
hope i'll see you and hear you so very so goodbye. Thank you for
that's our fervorent hope. Uri Matarski on the front lines in uh in,
Ukraine, in the don Boss region, Urie, thank you so much,
and we'll see you again. I'm sure of it. Guys. We're gonna
take a quick break here where live in Ukraine. We just heard from Urie
Matzarsky. Up next, our Intrepid Reporter live also from Ukraine, Philittner here
on Being Frank. We're the Only Way to be is Frank. It's certainly
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Hudson River Radio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank. We're the Only
Way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Thank you
for joining us here on the Intelligent Conversation podcast. You know, we stream
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We just heard from Uri Matsarski's a freedom fighter on the front lines and in
Ukraine, literally in the trenches. And now we'll be joined by a regular
guest who again puts himself in jeopardy to join us here to let us know
what's going on in Ukraine. Phil Atner. Phil, Welcome once again,
Thank you for taking the time. Yeah, Frank, again, I asked
the question of Uri, and I think it's a good question for you as
well. How has your life changed? He's a Ukrainian directly are not you
are doing British American citizen, but you've decided to spend the last year in
Ukraine. How has your life changed? Well? I actually kind of like
you, Frank. I was on the road to retirement. I had kind
of I was going to transition to doing, um, stepping away from hard
news and kind of doing other things like documentary's or you know, short videos,
factual videos, that kind of stuff. And then the war broke out.
And I had been on my Don Square in twenty fourteen, and I
had promised the people there, who oftentimes would plead with me not to let
Ukraine fall from the front pages. They pleaded with me, you know,
don't, don't let us be forgotten. They knew this war was going to
come. They know the Russians better than anybody. They know their character,
they know their their instincts, their their desire to maintain their empire and their
colony. And so they begged me not to forget Ukraine. Uh. And
I said, diameete promises that I would not. And so when the war
stuck out, instead of you know, completing my transition to a semi retirement
or to kind of pursue interests of a different nature than hard news, um,
I came here uh and have been here except for a short break that
I had to do when I to go back to the States. I've been
here for the entirety of it. And it's exhausting. Uh it is,
it's depressing, it's sad, it's uh, it's angering, it's it's infuriating.
Um it's uh, it's it's also something that I feel very strongly about
doing because this country deserves to be free. Uh. There's there's I mean,
I have covered wars uh in you know, I've covered wars in a
variety of their different locations, and nine times out of ten, for the
most part, they're pretty murky. But this, this war is pretty clear
cut. It is it is an aggressive colonial imperial state utilizing terror tactics and
brutality not limited to UH, but including rape squads and mass you know,
mass murder and um violations of international codes of conducts. Uh, not to
mention the fact that the basic premise of the war is seizure of territory that
does not belong to them. Um, this is clear cut, it's binary.
It's it's black and white. The Russians are at their their at falls
here, They're they're conducting a just susting war. Well, and Phil might
if I if I might jump in, And I think it's something important there
because we as journalists and everybody talks about impartiality. Well, well, sometimes
it's it's there's there's a thing about raining outside. You don't debate whether it's
raining outside. You you stick your head out and you find out whether it's
raining outside or it's not. It's that black or white. There is no
nuance sometimes in part of telling the story is this is the story, and
in this particular case, it's Russian aggression. But how is that? How
has it changed you, Phil? Has it changed you from the beginning and
how? If so? How? Well, I don't know if it's changed
me so much because I've I've seen war. I've seen the face of war,
you know, over a period of twenty five years in my career.
Um, what it has, what it's reinforced in me, is the help
that I never see another war ever again in my life. Um, that
this is the last war and the last environment in which people are suffering in
which I make a living or you know, which I cover as a journalist,
because I'm not really making the living here. I'm doing this exactly.
You're totally depended in every sense of the word. That's right, Um,
And I hope that I never seen another war. If there's anything that it
is, Yeah, it has changed me. It's just reinforced the idea that
I've done. I'm done covering and spending time. I'm it's human suffering.
And I joke with my friends and they tease me back about it. Um
is that you know my intention is to go and do documentaries about the migratory
pattern of the monarch butterfly and the Pacific Coast Highway. You know that's being
a good Californian. Um, it's I'm done. I'm done with surrounding myself
with suffering. And I wouldn't be here if it wasn't Ukraine. I would
not go to another war, I would not go to another natural disaster or
anything. I've seen enough pain and suffering in my life and I really don't
need anymore. But it's Ukraine and I love this country. And also the
cause is dust and so it's you know, when this is done, no
more, no more for me, I'm done. Well you know it as
an aside too. In addition to the story, there's the personal toll,
and we talked about it with Urie and those people. But you know,
as journalists, I think and I've I've had this conversation with my girlfriend in
time you're not immune, you're not beyond and you do get PTSD and you
have seen certainly much more in terms of conflict than I have, but certainly
my share, even as do. I say to this day, the worst
story I covered was the Sandy Hook massacre. Of those those kids. You
couldn't help but feel it. So even in a practical so you have to
stay connected, but you have to stay a little bit detached at the same
time. How do you work that out in your life and your mind?
Phil I try not to let it. I try not to suppress it.
You have to put it aside sometimes because you have work to do and you
and you want to do right by the people that you're covering. UM,
But you can't suppress it, and you can't push it down because UM,
I've seen that happen. I've seen what that's done to other colleagues. And
if you try to pretend that you aren't feeling pain, if you're if you
if you try to pretend that this isn't really powerfully upsetting you know, then
you try to bottle it up and eventually it explodes, and that's unhealthy.
I've seen that out to a lot of people who succumb to drug addiction or
alcoholism or um or just you know, a real serious cases of PTSC which
erupt oftentimes in violent behavior or anger management issues. So I try not to
suppress it. And I I am always skeptical of the people who come to
these kind of situations and pretend that they can just brush it off. I
find those people actually to be the most at risk and the guys that I
try to stay away from or at least give a good distance too, Because
if you don't have empathy, if you if you if you don't acknowledge that
this is this is deeply painful and very upsetting to to witness, to bear
witness too, then you're then then you're kidding yourself. And Frank I can
get a long with and I recognize. Then let me just wrap up with
this. One of the frustrations I find with people who are hyper critical of
the media is that you don't It is very easy to be an arm chair
general. Is very easy to sit back and criticize the media. Now I
am not. I have my criticisms in the meeting. Again, working from
inside the media, I recognize where those fault lines lie. I have criticisms
but those of us who come here and cover these stories do so at a
cost so that you, the audience, have a better understanding of what is
happening to me in the world. All human beings are capable of fault and
of not living up to you know, maybe a better model or but we
try our best, and it is we are limited by our human natures.
But what frustrates me is the is the concept that I see growing in the
West and in particular in America, this lack of trust in institutions, and
this ease with which people criticize the media. The media in quotation mark and
you know, I have a dear friend of mine who I will miss for
the rest of my life Pierre Zakuchevski, an Irish cameraman working for Fox News,
who I knew for over a decade and who I considered a very,
very close friend. And he was killed the very beginning of this war.
And so I just urge people when they are hypercritical or distrustful of the media.
There are people on the front lines here putting their lives at risk,
not for any cynical reason, but genuinely from a desire to inform an audience
of what is happening on this planet, and so I urge you. As
Uri said, today is the day. It's the national holiday commemorating war correspondent,
specifically correspondence within the armed forces. But it still stands true that on
a day where we recognize this sacrifices that war journalists make, just consider that
it's not so easy to come to a war zone and try to relate what's
actually happening here, because we are all subject to our own perceptions and our
own limitations. But there are people out here putting their lives at risks,
and it hurts me that we have lost the trust of the public. But
it also angers me that people would think that a band like Pierre Zakcheski would
pay the ultimate price, that his beloved wife is now going to be a
widow. And to say that that is done for some sort of cynical manipulation
of an audience, I find not only depressing but inferior. I'm so with
you there, brother, and I don't don't don't spare it with people sometimes
when they challenge you with that, and I try to maybe soften it somewhat
with a little bit of humor, and I, oh, yeah, I've
risked my life many times just so I can lie to you. I mean,
what's the think about, what's the motivation? And I have what motivation
could I possibly have to put my well being at risk just to tell you
a lie does make any sense? But something, well, it's an unfortunate
social medium. All of that has contributed it, but it's it's a conversation.
And the and the corporations that run the media networks is the middle management
guys. Uh, you know, the guys who sit back and kind of
dictate from their ivory towers. I have issue with um, but the people
who are out here doing the hard work of covering the news. They are
not perfect, none of us are. But I just think it is so
easy to be dismissive or critical when you know you are and also you're you
should be a willing participant in the information that you consume. So it is
not a one way road learn how to consume medium better. It is not
a passive are important? Yes, especially today, Let's let's go back anyway,
Yeah, yes, let's go And to go back to the business at
hand. You mentioned and it was it was on my list here to ask.
Also, you mentioned the armaments and and and ammunition. How important is
that? And is that foreign age package that we hear about the tanks.
But for us it can be just numbers in a very practical sense, because
you're there and you see it. How important is it for them to have
these so called tools, the armor, the artillery and all the other necessarily
wage war. There's there's two things, um in the in the short well
in the medium term, getting the weapon systems uh. And by that I
do mean like tanks, infantry, fighting vehicles, drones, anti aircraft,
defensive systems. Those need to get here as quickly as possible. But there's
an old saying in the in the US military, and I'll see if I
can get it right here. First off, is it is slow as steady.
Steady is fast, if you follow me. So let's let's make sure
that those armored systems get here and are implemented properly, people are trained properly.
We'll do we'll do it. We'll do it, you know, steadily,
we'll do it competently. And in so doing, we'll get them online
as quickly as we can, but also to the greatest effectiveness. The secondary
issue is more pressing, and that is artillery shelves. As your mentioned there,
the Russian military doctrine is very different than NATO military doctrine. They have
two primary points of focus for the Russian military, and that is um and
this is not you know, exclusive, but I'm painting with a broad brush.
Um there. They will say otherwise, but their tactics tend to be
soften things up with artillery, in which they called the god of war,
and then follow it up with one resource that the Russians have that very few
countries can compare with, and that is bodies. Human beings. They have.
They have a lot of human beings that they can press gang for a
variety of reasons which I won't go into because it goes into cultural stuff.
But they can conscript an awful lot of people. And what they do is
just throw numbers at the at the at the opposing lot. So you heard
you're talking and I've heard this before as well. They will send a wave
of soldiers to crash upon positions so that they can then find out where the
strengths and weaknesses are, and then they will push their other conscripts in subsequent
ways upon those more fortified positions. Now, what that means is that you
have mass numbers of men poorly trained because they don't need to be heavily trained,
poorly equipped because you just give them an AK forty seven and at any
more complex than that, you know, you really have to do some more
training. Of course, there's anti tank weaponry, and there's all sorts of
other stuff. Fin and large, we're talking about waves of men, which
in Russian they don't even call cannon funter. They call it cannon meat.
That's why Urae kept saying waves of meat beat. That's the way the Russians
look at it, and it's it's deeply cynical. It's deeply depressing. Now
why do I mention that I mentioned that, because how do you address that?
When you have waves of men coming at you? You call in an
artillery because that's what you got to use. You got to use something that's
going to blow up enormous swaths of land, and sadly, a bunch of
young men, middle aged men included, who have been grabbed out of their
villages in Russia and thrust of the front line is there's no good side to
this. It's depressing as hell, but that's what you need. You you
know one one hundred and fIF about milimeter shelves fired from how itzers provided by
UH you know, NATO's countries using even other Soviet or other systems, but
it's artillery. Until those weapons systems, the tax and the infantry finding vehicles
get here, and then the Ukrainians can can transition from holding defensive lines and
they can actually start to get him a sense of maneuver ultimately, Frank,
I am hopeful, cautiously optimistic, um, but maybe that's my fault that
this will transition quickly from a position of static lines and defensive lines and sending
waves and waves of conscripts against them to a war maneuver where Ukraine can can
sweep around UH and and counter offenses and hopefully regain territory in large kind of
seizures of open ground and whatnot and cut out supply lines, but ultimately hoping
to get to the nineteen ninety one borders, which will include Crimea, which
is very troubling to me, but I come around to the Ukrainian side and
I think that they have to they have to take Crimea back. There's a
whole bunch of questions about that, because then is it really liberation or are
you occupying because there are people in Crimea that are ethnically Russian that do support
the Russian Federation, but how much we don't know because every referendum has been
held under the under the gun from Russia. But at the end of the
day, I think they should take corect Crimea. Certainly, they should take
back the bombast and re established the internationally recognized lines that were that were guaranteed
by us in the book Arrest Memorandum, you know, and uh, and
then we will see what happened in Ukraine. Does not want to invade Russia,
but they should restore their lines and all of that right now in the
immediate term, as the Russians throw these waves of the Ukrainians means supplying them
with artillery shelves. From what we heard from Eurie just now and what I've
been hearing from other sources on the front lines, they are not in any
kind of imminent position where they're going to suddenly run out of AMMO. Then
not down to their last box of AMMO. They've got a little bit of
latitude, but until they've got a supply line backing that up, they're they're
gonna have to start limiting what they do on fire mission fire mission. So
I spoke to a friend of mine who is a defense reporter here Jeb today
and he said that they have transitioned their tactics to basically saying anything ten minute
or less, don't call in artillery. That's that will. We're going to
save our shelves to concern the larger man, start the startington concern it.
So um, I am still optimistic. I do not think the Ukrainians are
going to lose. In fact, I know the Ukrainians are not going to
lose this floor, but we have to stand with them. I've heard that
the US is pulling out something like three million shells from their stockpiles in Israel,
which of course might have a ramification there. But this is the war
we're fighting now, the mistake about it, and that's what they're the stockpiles
are there for. So I think I still think Ukraine ultimately will win.
And again I get along with and I know, but let me wrap it
up with this. What's the alternative, Frank, What's the alternative if we
if the support for Ukraine is lost by some people who are playing domestic politics,
and I won't go into details, but we know who they are right
on Capitol Hill, and they're playing games. If they six and we withdraw
our support for Ukraine, the consequences of that is we will have to sit
by and watch as bystanders, as Russic in its atrocity. As for atrocity,
and I am not being hyperbolic here, given their history, given their
mentality when it comes to war fighting, we will we if we well,
if we remove our support for Ukraine, we will be complicit and we will
watch as a genocide. And I'm not I am not overstating that a genocide
will happen in this country. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people will be rounded
up, marched through tangaroo courts and slaughtered. It will be, if not
hundreds of thousands, millions of people will be killed, and we will be
We will be bystanders by removing our support. Are we do we have the
stomach? I know it's difficult to support a war, but do we have
the summit the stomach to watch that happen? Because man's almost think about morning,
that's what will happen. It was what could be interpreted as good news
today. I was catching earlier and as I said, we're taping on the
sixteenth of February from Belarus and their president Yukashenko said said that Belarus would not
attack Ukraine with its own forces unless attacked. Is that a hollow statement?
Can they be trusted? Does it have any significance or meaning? One of
your feelings fail you, you, lukink I don't. I don't trust Lucasenko
anymore, and I can throw him underhead. He's a he's a deathbot.
He's a he kills his own people with a little abandoned um. He two
years ago now, if my recollection is correct, he conducted a false election
and when there was an uprising he put it down violently. Um, Luca
THINKO is not someone we should be putting in our trust in having said that,
because there is a groundswell of anti Luksenko rebels basically internal with the he
can't engage because most of his military sending he spends on suppressing his own people.
If he were to transition that military power to attack Ukraine, he would
find himself in real troub because the uprising would happen again. So I don't
I think he may be honest when he says he Belarusian troops will not be
used directly, but for cynical reasons, not for any kind of brand you
know, digester Georgie Brank. But we are aware of various reports of aircraft
being transitioned to Belarus, and it's a short flight from Belarus to the capital
kids, so there's every chance that on the twenty fourth, the anniversary or
the commemoration of the beginning of this war, the year commemoration. Because Russia
likes to do symbolic attacks are based on dates on the calendar, which is
part of the reason why I say they are a terror outlet, because their
intention is to use violence and warfare in terms of messaging, not strategically.
We are here in the capital kind of feeling like we're waiting for the other
shoot to drop, because we do anticipate that launching from Fellovision airfields, we
could have you know, attack strike the aircraft and bombers getting here in such
quick fashion that maybe our air defense might be overwhelmed us. That's the greater
fear from Bellar rops, not that there would be a direct invasion. There's
another shadowy organism or shadow organization that we hear quite a bit about and certainly
relates to the so called meat assaults, the Wagner Group group, as it's
also some cap Wagner named Can you tell us about the organization about them?
What do you know? What do you know about the brutal? They're brutal,
They're they're where they they're headed up. They're headed up by a buddy
of Vladimir Prutins from Saint Petersburg progosion, and he is ofttimes referred to as
the as Prutent Chef because he started in the post Soviet space with a bunch
of hospitality and catering locations that he turned into a vast fortune. And he's
part of Putin's inner circle, and he created a mercenary group called, as
you mentioned, the Wagner Group, named after Hitler's favorite composers. So you
know, all the arguments that Ukraine's filled with Nazis, maybe somebody should be
looking at Russia's fascists and Nazi tendencies. And they are well known around the
world as being ruthless, as being a true ulus, as as being uh
criminals, not soldiers, but criminals. Um. There are reports out of
say the Central African Republic of the murdering pregnant women in manner in ways that
I don't want to go in the year because it's too disturbing to relate.
Um. They have an open tactic that they they revel in. Not only
do they try and hide it, but they revel in it um by um
uh as disturbing as this his apologies. Uh. They they if anybody is
seen to be retreating or not fighting or you know, it's not obeying orders.
Uh, they will use a sledgehammer and a pile of bricks that they
wrap the head of the victim. There's no other words for a victim around
a pile of bricks and they they they kill them using a sledge brutally,
actually in a brutal manner. The videotape it. And now there's some talk
that maybe some of this is performative and it is actually theater to strike fear
in their enemies and things like this. Although even the fact that they would
revel in this kind of act and then they'll go to other people supporting them
and give them chroned um sledge hammers with their emblem audit even if they aren't
really doing it. And I actually do believe that they do it, maybe
not all the time, maybe some of it is performative, but at least
one instance I am I'm convinced was real. For them to revel in that
kind of brutality gives you an impression of the mentality of our troops. Would
never ever do that, even even as loathsome an organization of mercenaries as say
Blackwater, who I saw it in the Iraq War, even they would not
be much less advertising um, they would know the limitations of that. Uh.
It just gives you an insight into the mentality of these guys. So
they have not been as successful as Progosion would have liked them to be.
They were they were slated to actually take the town to buck Moot, and
they weren't able to do it. It's well, it's it's well known that
Progosian wanted to present that to Vladimir Putin on a platter so that he could
get more funding for his for his group, and probably had a good chunk
of it off for himself. He wasn't able to do that. But the
Wargner guys are are certainly not superman uh, and they're not taken from the
best ranks of Russian society. It's well known that the Bogner's recruit from inside
prisons because those men have nothing left to lose, and there's a criminal underclass
that can be ordered to sign up. So that is depressing and distressing as
well. And you know, just the last note on on Wardner and They're
kind of make up is that not only are they doing things like going to
prisons, but they make contracts where they they're the rest of the prison term
will be commuted. So they're taking psychopaths, rapists, and murderers out of
their prisons, giving their weapons and having them fight a new prank and should
they survive for these six or nine months, depending on the contract, they
will be returned to their villages. So in essence, they're taking criminals out
of prisons, putting them in a war zone, which will increasingly, you
know, will will only make their trauma and their psychopaths ssarchompathy or their you
know, we know, it will feed, it will feed the more you
know, vile signs of their age, and then they're going to send them
home. Yeah, I mean, this is just after after all that blood,
after all the bloods. It's just the Russians are there is this deep
sickness in Russia. And I sadly, because I lived in Russia for five
years and I have met a great deal of Russian prince, a great many
Russian prince the family, I have to say there's a there's a sickness at
the heart of Russian society, and it is festered there for a long time.
I'm talking centuries, I'm talking Czaris, Russia, talking Soviet Union,
and I'm talking to Putin era. And unfortunately, as depressing as it is
for me to say, maybe this is the wake up call that they need
to finally look in the mirror and do some really hard work in constructing civic
society and healing the trauma that the Czars, the Soviets and now Putin have
inflicted on that society. So but until that time, Ukraine has to defend
itself from a country that has an illness, a really sick illness, a
mental illness. In the future, Phil, is it possible at this point
to predict a future for Ukraine? Is it possible even now a realistic future
for Ukraine? Yeah? Is it too early to speculate in the middle of
this brutal No, no, no, no, no, I look,
I live amongst the Ukrainian people. I have been coming here for twenty two
years. When this country is released from the shackles of a despotic moscow,
which they have been trying to release themselves for the better part of three centuries,
this is going to be a powerhouse. Now they have trauma, they're
going to have to deal with that. I was out when I was out
in Leviv recently, I spoke to an educator who was saying, we have
to deal with the trauma of the children, because we don't want them growing
up twenty years from now with that trauma and resorting to anger management issues or
alcoholism or you know, the trauma as a sore. They are going to
be proactive about that. But by and large, I have complete faith in
this country. It is going to be an absolute powerhouse. This is one
of the largest year This is actually excluding Russia, which is not strictly speaking
solely European. This is the largest European nation on the continent. It will
it will at some point be its competitor to France and Germany, and there's
a lot of talk about that. Actually that's there's some speculation that there's concerned
within the EU that this might shift the balance to a more easterly based power
structure within Europe. We'll have to wait and see about that. That's years
in the future. There's going to be in a reconstruction period. There's going
to have to be healing and a lot of work needs to be done.
But this country has a massive aggrib business industry, it has intellectual property that
is astounding. This is a well educated, modern nation state. There's a
military industrial complex. There's all sorts of reasons to believe that Ukraine is going
to be one of the most powerful countries in Europe and in so doing being
one of the most powerful countries on the planet. I believe that I think
this GDP is going to be enormous. There will be lad leafs that will
be paying us back for that which we have lent to them in this critical
time of need. But you know, it's a price they're willing to pay.
But I have every belief that once the period of recovery, which could
take you know, five years, ten years, maybe more, I hope
not, this is going to be This will be an amazing country. And
not only that I mentioned agribusiness. I mentioned all these other things, tourism.
This is a beautiful country, Frank, it's I mean and lovely culture,
music, art, food, you'll sally not cynically, but it's funny.
You talk to a lot of Ukrainians to talk about like Russian culture,
and they say, most of that was imperial Russia, and it was the
Ukrainians that they they stole our best artists to go to their imperial courts.
So with a bit of pride they say, actually, you know, all
of the best Russian artists really Rainians. So I find that funny, but
I'm true with that. That But I urge anybody who who watches this or
here's this um, when this war is over come with it, you will
find a people who are accommodating. They are friendly, They will be so
grateful for all the effort and support that we have given them. You will
find h beautiful women stunning stunning. The beautiful women um for very sad reasons
because many of the men die and so they they you know, the prettiest
of the women kind of are the ones they get married. You will find
food that heartening, music, artistry, and the landscape from the Carpathian Mountains
to the historic beauty of Leviv or Harkiev and then of course the coastline in
Odessa. This is a wonderful country and I urge everybody, what's the source
over to come here and see what it was all about, and you'll know.
You'll know instantly for the second you step foot in this country in a
post war Ukraine. Why it is that that this country deserved our support and
what a beautiful, wonderful place this is. Well, we remain helpful.
We'd like to thank our guests for being frank and their intelligent conversation. YOU'REI
metsartsky earlier and fill it or feel always a pleasure to see you, my
brother. We'll see you again. Please be safe, okay. Always Our
most important command if you will for you is be safe out there. Okay
we'll do. Thank you, and of course especially my first roadio, but
not my first rodeo, but hopefully my last. Hopefully you're last in a
very good sense of the word. I hear your brother, dude. Of
course, special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give us a
voice in their lives. And remember we offer a fresh topic every week and
you can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts in places like
Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Speaker, and more. You can also
check us out on the Being Frank Facebook page. I'd like to leave you
with two last little nuggets, and I think you'll appreciate this. Most of
all, Phil comes from Malcolm X. If you're not ready to die for
it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary. Pretty straightforward. I
happen to agree. I've got some great closing music from Christopher Shaeffer. I
really like it, and it's called Sound This. We'll be back with another
Being Frank next week. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Let's see you
next time. Thanks for joining me. When you the moment, when you
you you pot, when you when you put your point, when you Hudson
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