WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.560 --> 00:00:08.560 Hudson River Radio dot com. It beats listening to nothing. Be Frank. 2 00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:16.079 We're the only way to be is Frankly. Hello everyone, and welcome to 3 00:00:16.199 --> 00:00:20.160 Being Frank. We're the only way to be is Frank. I'm your host, 4 00:00:20.199 --> 00:00:23.559 Frank Lebono, and we'd like to thank you for joining us here on 5 00:00:23.600 --> 00:00:29.440 the Intelligent Conversation podcast. We know that your time is valuable and competition quite 6 00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:33.640 Frankly as fierce, but we like to think of ourselves as an alternative to 7 00:00:33.679 --> 00:00:38.520 all that noise, so we really appreciate you sharing some of your day with 8 00:00:38.679 --> 00:00:43.159 Being Frank. You know, we stream from Hudson Radio dot com, where 9 00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:45.719 the mailman, that's what I like to call him. The mailman, mister 10 00:00:45.799 --> 00:00:51.359 Neil Richter is our engineer because he always delivers, he gets us streaming all 11 00:00:51.359 --> 00:00:55.679 the time. That's our so called homebase. But remember you can download us 12 00:00:55.799 --> 00:01:00.759 wherever and whenever you listen to your favorite podcast and that includes Heart Radio, 13 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.280 Spotify, Apple, Spreaker, and all the others. You can find links 14 00:01:04.319 --> 00:01:10.680 on our Being Facebook page. Please think about becoming a subscriber and leaving us 15 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:14.400 a comment too. As I mentioned, we have our own Facebook page, 16 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:18.000 Being Frank it's public, so check it out and follow the page for more 17 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:23.840 information about the podcast. We bring our audience a new topical program every week, 18 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:29.599 beginning on Fridays. Listen at your convenience, and every program is archived, 19 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:33.920 so you can listen to any Being Frank virtually any time that you want. 20 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.640 It's the intelligent thing to do. We are recording this program on the 21 00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:44.799 sixteenth of February. Speaking of dates, February twenty fourth will mark one year 22 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:49.959 since Russia's brutal an illegal assault began on the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Since 23 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:55.680 that time, the Ukrainians have offered a fierce resistance, vowing that the Russians 24 00:01:55.680 --> 00:02:00.920 will never succeed in conquering their country. However, the cost is been considerable, 25 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:05.719 with tens of thousands of dead on both sides. Many of those dead 26 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:10.960 have been Ukrainian citizens, deliberately targeted by Russian President Vladimir Putin and his cabal 27 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.520 of thugs to bring Ukraine to its knees. Needless to say, it's not 28 00:02:15.639 --> 00:02:21.840 working. The struggle continues, but one still must contemplate how many more must 29 00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:27.680 die in their fight for freedom. We are now enjoyed once again lie from 30 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.120 Ukraine by two of the most intrepid men that I've ever known. First, 31 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:37.199 Yuri Matarski has transformed himself, like many Ukrainians, from a normal life as 32 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:40.759 a radio broadcaster to a warrior fighting for his country's freedom on the front lines. 33 00:02:42.360 --> 00:02:46.560 He joins us from the fierce fighting in the Don Boss region. Our 34 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:49.800 second guest is a man I'm proud to call colleague. He has covered most 35 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:53.400 of the world's major conflicts and has dedicated his latest mission to tell of the 36 00:02:53.479 --> 00:02:59.159 Ukrainian struggle for freedom. He has been there since the beginning. Mister Philtner, 37 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:02.520 gentleman, thank you so much for joining us to be here. I 38 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:07.599 want to begin with Urie because Uri has limited time. He can only spend 39 00:03:07.639 --> 00:03:10.520 about fifteen minutes with us, so I would like to begin with him, 40 00:03:10.800 --> 00:03:14.879 and then we'll take a quick break, and then Phil will join us full 41 00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:16.800 time, but of course he can jump in at any time and add his 42 00:03:16.919 --> 00:03:22.639 perspective to what Yuri has to say. You again, you've been with us 43 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:25.560 once before, early on in the conflict, and we're grateful that you join 44 00:03:25.680 --> 00:03:30.400 us once again. If you would please tell us your current condition. Where 45 00:03:30.400 --> 00:03:36.719 are you now. I'm now serving in the army. As I joined the 46 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:39.039 army on the second day of the war. I'm still serving in the army 47 00:03:39.479 --> 00:03:46.439 almost a year now. I'm my unity is located in Dunbus region. This 48 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:51.319 is region. Most part of it, or a large part of it, 49 00:03:51.520 --> 00:03:57.319 is under Russian occupation. The fiercest battle of this war is now waging in 50 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:03.479 Hearing dun Bust around a town of Bahmut, which is greatly partly destroyed and 51 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:09.400 a lot of seages. A lot of towns around Bahmut are also destroyed by 52 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:16.199 artillery and rocket fire. So I am now here near near the hottest spot 53 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:23.759 of this period of war. Urieu. As we mentioned, and as you 54 00:04:23.839 --> 00:04:27.360 has mentioned, you joined on the second day of the war, and you 55 00:04:27.399 --> 00:04:32.279 were a radio broadcast or journalist as Phil and myself or and it's not a 56 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:38.600 try question because obviously your life has changed, but you describe it for us? 57 00:04:38.879 --> 00:04:44.600 How How has it changed from an everyday existence to one of literally fighting 58 00:04:44.600 --> 00:04:47.480 for your life on a daily basis. I think that's something most of us 59 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:53.639 find almost inconceivable. Can can you possibly put us there? Yeah? I'll 60 00:04:53.720 --> 00:04:58.199 try to to to describe it, but I'll, you know, I'll start 61 00:04:58.240 --> 00:05:04.600 to if something really, really sort things from home, things from ordinary life. 62 00:05:04.639 --> 00:05:10.120 I was talking to my daughter a few days ago via Internet, of 63 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:14.399 course, and she asked me, also, what is going on in my 64 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.439 how my life changed for from the beginning of from the third days of war. 65 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:26.439 And I don't know why, but I suddenly understood that for a year, 66 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:31.519 or almost for a year, I didn't buy any piece of of civilian 67 00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:34.959 clothes. You know, I don't buy any piece of I don't buy any 68 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:40.600 shorts, any T shirts civilian I mean, I don't buy any any boots 69 00:05:40.800 --> 00:05:48.519 or civilian civilian sneakers. So I'm always wearing the military uniform. I'm always 70 00:05:48.560 --> 00:05:58.240 doing the military job. I have a small connection with my pre war life 71 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:04.959 because I'm doing the English language podcast Fighting for Ukraine. You can find it, 72 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:11.800 find it on a pot being page and on all other platforms. I'm 73 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.040 trying to do it on the I mean I was. I was at the 74 00:06:16.120 --> 00:06:19.439 beginning of the war. I was making it on the daily basis. Now 75 00:06:19.480 --> 00:06:24.319 it's really really hard to meet to do to to do it on the daily 76 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:28.040 basis because we are always moving, We are always on the move, and 77 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:32.040 it's not always possible because of you know, you know, of my nervous 78 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:38.639 condition. Sometimes I'm really on the virtue of a nervous breakdown because I see 79 00:06:38.680 --> 00:06:42.279 a lot of really really bad things all around me. I see a lot 80 00:06:42.319 --> 00:06:49.879 of towns and cities really really really badly destroyed or damaged by Russian fire. 81 00:06:50.560 --> 00:06:57.759 For example, of the city of Issume, near my native heartif is destroyed, 82 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:04.759 almost eighty eighty persons of all buildings are destroyed or partly damaged. Where 83 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:10.079 and when you saw the people, saw people living in the basements, so 84 00:07:10.240 --> 00:07:15.240 living in the in the houses without the wall or even without two walls, 85 00:07:15.240 --> 00:07:19.839 in the cold, freezing web. It's it's really really so for me, 86 00:07:19.920 --> 00:07:24.920 it's really hard to see and really hard to understand that, you know, 87 00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:29.800 only year ago it was a nice, beautiful, rich city and the people 88 00:07:29.839 --> 00:07:34.120 we were happy living their ordinary lives in their apartments, in their houses, 89 00:07:34.160 --> 00:07:40.920 and now they're just for understanding. A lot of people in the down pass 90 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:47.199 region in uh in surrounded areas can it see even can it see um uh 91 00:07:48.560 --> 00:07:55.199 coot food for a four months for a week, so we only have some 92 00:07:55.319 --> 00:08:01.839 kind of can't foods from volunteers or from soldiers who are always ready to share 93 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:07.800 their meals with the local population and it really really hurts me. So always 94 00:08:07.879 --> 00:08:15.439 understanding my latest podcast, I think it it's it published right now while we 95 00:08:15.519 --> 00:08:20.600 are talking. It should be published. I'm talking in this podcast about about 96 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:26.920 my really bead scenervous condition after I stumbled upon a straight doc was the female 97 00:08:26.959 --> 00:08:33.480 dog who was really really really hungry and looking for some kind of food and 98 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.279 warm and protection, and I couldn't do I couldn't do anything for for this 99 00:08:37.519 --> 00:08:45.639 creature. And so yeah, my life completely changed completely and I really want 100 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:50.759 to to to to to to come back, to return to my to my 101 00:08:50.799 --> 00:08:54.039 previous life, to my work as a journalist, to my work as a 102 00:08:54.120 --> 00:08:58.320 radio host. Very it's extraordinary. We can we can only imagine if here 103 00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:03.759 I'm choking up too, and I know you are, the imagery is Can 104 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:07.519 it ever be the same? I mean with theoretically the war can't last forever. 105 00:09:07.679 --> 00:09:11.519 I know the Ukrainians are prepared to fight forever. I know you are. 106 00:09:11.679 --> 00:09:16.200 I know Phil will reiterate that that the Ukrainians will never give up. 107 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.639 I know that. But at some point there has to be an end to 108 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.279 the war. Can there be a return to normalcy? Can you ever go 109 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.200 back to being what you once were you were. You know a lot of 110 00:09:30.240 --> 00:09:35.559 places which we are not occupied, or which they're free from the occupation, 111 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:41.120 or which or from each the frontline we are moved. For example, give 112 00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:45.720 the place the place where I was living before, before we were oh, 113 00:09:45.759 --> 00:09:50.759 my native which was you know, in the circle of Russian forces for a 114 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:56.679 lot of months and was sharing on daily basis with thousands and thousands of rockets 115 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:03.879 and projectiles, and were almost I can I can say that vis cities or 116 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.840 Vise towns are almost completely returned to the pre world life. We have some 117 00:10:09.919 --> 00:10:16.519 exception, of course, because because we're are still a curve few uh in 118 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:22.080 in almost all the Ukraine Ukrainian cities and towns, of course we're mostly in 119 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:26.639 Karkie. We're a lot of damage to or destroyed buildings. But you can 120 00:10:26.720 --> 00:10:31.120 find the people. You're not just walking around where you can find people going 121 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:37.320 to dates. You can find the open pops, restaurants, theaters, cinemas. 122 00:10:37.360 --> 00:10:41.519 Frank, Frank, there's there's something and your he probably won't say this, 123 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:45.279 Your he probably won't say this without jump in here and just say something 124 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:48.399 about argued. I was out in Herkie about six weeks ago, and if 125 00:10:48.440 --> 00:10:52.759 you didn't know that Arkieve was at the center of one of the most fierce 126 00:10:52.919 --> 00:11:00.279 battles in Ukraine. It's it's almost it's very difficult to recognize it because vic 127 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:05.279 pride in Herkie is enormous and they're very proud of the fact that they didn't 128 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:11.559 waste any time at all in cleaning up the city and starting repairs. So 129 00:11:11.639 --> 00:11:18.919 the spirit of the Ukrainian people to recover is happening now. They're not waiting 130 00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:22.000 until after the war. They're already, especially in a place like Harkie, 131 00:11:22.279 --> 00:11:28.080 starting to rebuild. And it's it's a real testament to the strength of the 132 00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.720 Ukrainian people that they will not let their cities, their lives, their homes 133 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:39.879 be damaged, and certainly not their spirit. So I'm sure Yuri knows this, 134 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:43.080 but they're they're very modest, proud people in Ukraine, and maybe they 135 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:48.559 wouldn't say it, so allow me to say it. I am always impressed 136 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:54.320 with the strength of spirit of the Ukrainian people. And Harky will return, 137 00:11:54.759 --> 00:12:01.080 Kramatours will return, Mariopal will return, all of the places they will return, 138 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:11.279 because Ukraine is a very proud, strong country and I am humbled constantly 139 00:12:13.000 --> 00:12:20.080 how the strength of what they're living through so that I can attest them personally. 140 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:22.840 Well, that's that's a perfect leading. And I'm watching the clock here 141 00:12:22.879 --> 00:12:26.000 and I want to be on top of it so that Uri is not putting 142 00:12:26.039 --> 00:12:31.600 any danger. And he gave us fifteen minutes so quickly with that in mind. 143 00:12:31.960 --> 00:12:37.240 And we all believe that. We all see it here regularly with reports 144 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.639 like yours and Phils who also does a YouTube channel, etc. And the 145 00:12:41.759 --> 00:12:46.639 nightly news reports. But you're you're facing a spring offensive. I think it's 146 00:12:46.679 --> 00:12:50.200 inevitable. And many people said it's already begun, which means more fighting, 147 00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.919 more hardship. How is the overall morale of the troops where you are? 148 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:58.840 Could you share that with us? I can tell you, oh, you 149 00:12:58.919 --> 00:13:03.000 know all the things which is which is going around me, But I for 150 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:07.440 sure I can tell you that people, all the people I talk with, 151 00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:13.440 all the all the my comrades, all the commanders of all this uh Ukrainian 152 00:13:13.559 --> 00:13:20.000 army, all the civilian defenders are ready to fight till the end. There 153 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:24.039 is no some kind of you know, hesitations, There is not some kind 154 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:31.080 of covert dis Yeah, it's it's really brutal and it's really bloody war. 155 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:37.120 And people who are here, people who are joined the army, people who 156 00:13:37.159 --> 00:13:41.840 are still joining the army, most of them were they really understand what is 157 00:13:41.879 --> 00:13:46.799 going on and they can see that there are a lot of a lot of 158 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.399 blood. We can see where are a lot of dead, people are injured 159 00:13:50.480 --> 00:13:56.360 people, a lot of seriously injured people. But we're ready to defend our 160 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:03.279 homeland. We're ready to do an if even sacrifice our lives to for a 161 00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:09.120 victory because we have we have a lot of things where we have a lot 162 00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:11.879 of values, what we need to protect, what we need to defend. 163 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:16.039 We don't want to be a part of this, you know, this evil 164 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:22.480 of this evil, ungodly empire of Putting and his people. We don't want 165 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:28.799 it. It's just just better to die fight and went to leave and under 166 00:14:28.799 --> 00:14:33.720 like, I gotta asked this question YOURII, how are you shorted for artillery 167 00:14:33.759 --> 00:14:37.279 shelves? I know there's a lot of talk about a lack of artillery and 168 00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:43.000 secondly, you could you talk about the inhumane tactics that Russian Russia is using 169 00:14:43.039 --> 00:14:48.840 with their own troops, like just sending poorly equipped and poorly trained soldiers to 170 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:54.080 just die on your defensive positions. I can't tell you anything about art because 171 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:58.360 in my in my units, there is not any huge artilly or only mortars 172 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:03.639 and we have uh as I see, and as I know, we have 173 00:15:03.919 --> 00:15:07.639 enough for shells for mortars. We have enough mortar shills. And yeah, 174 00:15:07.679 --> 00:15:16.360 I'm so hurt about the meat waves or Russian are using trying to to get 175 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:24.159 Ukrainian positions. We're really sending wave after wave of um poorly equipped or sometimes 176 00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:31.200 even not at all trained people in Russian uniform, but very often it's we're 177 00:15:31.600 --> 00:15:37.480 armed only with rifles, with assault rifles, with no real protection from any 178 00:15:37.559 --> 00:15:43.000 kind of of our fire. Uh, we've you know, we're the first 179 00:15:43.039 --> 00:15:48.480 wave or the main mission of the first wave of the first couple of waves 180 00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:56.960 needs to unmask Ukrainian positions. So we are it's suicide missions for mission for 181 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:03.039 them. We need to only to to discover where Ukrainian artillery or where Ukrainian 182 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:08.200 fighters are. We're dining completely or almost completely, and the next waves are 183 00:16:08.200 --> 00:16:15.120 trying to storm the Ukrainian positions which you're discovered unmarked by these first meat waves. 184 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:21.080 It's, you know, it looks like it looks like we're done. 185 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.799 I think First of World War something like this, and they have a lot 186 00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:29.000 of you know, miles and miles and miles of trenches. We have miles 187 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:36.080 of trenches, we have we have meat waves of Russian soldiers. Sometimes it 188 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:41.559 really reminds me of what I know about the First of World War. Interesting, 189 00:16:41.879 --> 00:16:45.639 Eury. We could continue, but we've we've already given us a little 190 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:48.840 bit of overtime. And I don't want to put you in jeopardy. But 191 00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.519 please, first and foremost always I say the same thing the film, and 192 00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:56.720 we mean it with all our hearts. Please be safe. We support you, 193 00:16:56.799 --> 00:17:03.440 We your your your lust for freedom is felt throughout the world. Fill 194 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:11.680 you, thank you, thank you so much. Hit on Slava and I 195 00:17:11.720 --> 00:17:17.920 hope i'll see you and hear you so very so goodbye. Thank you for 196 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:22.759 that's our fervorent hope. Uri Matarski on the front lines in uh in, 197 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:26.720 Ukraine, in the don Boss region, Urie, thank you so much, 198 00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:29.799 and we'll see you again. I'm sure of it. Guys. We're gonna 199 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.039 take a quick break here where live in Ukraine. We just heard from Urie 200 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:41.640 Matzarsky. Up next, our Intrepid Reporter live also from Ukraine, Philittner here 201 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.960 on Being Frank. We're the Only Way to be is Frank. It's certainly 202 00:17:45.039 --> 00:17:49.839 intelligent conversation and we'll be right back after these brief commercial messages. This is 203 00:17:49.920 --> 00:17:53.440 Hudson River Radio dot com. Be sure to check out another one of our 204 00:17:53.519 --> 00:18:00.400 podcasts, Big Jim Wheeler's Classic Radio Theater. It features historic radio show from 205 00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:06.200 the nineteen thirties through the nineteen sixties, including Dragnet, Gunsmoke, the Shadow, 206 00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:11.160 and tons of other classic hits. Check out Big Jim Wheeler's Classic Radio 207 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:17.039 Theater on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts 208 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:23.319 Hudson River Radio dot com. Bring a dash of green into your life. 209 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:29.279 Check out the Many Shades of Green with Maxine, Margar Reuben and Malcolm Berman. 210 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.799 Get informed about environmental issues and current events that affect us all. Pick 211 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.240 a shade of green and raise your eco consciousness with the Many Shades of Green 212 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:45.640 available on Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts 213 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.359 Hudson River Radio dot com. Welcome back to Being Frank. We're the Only 214 00:18:56.400 --> 00:18:59.640 Way to be is Frank. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Thank you 215 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:03.920 for joining us here on the Intelligent Conversation podcast. You know, we stream 216 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.920 our home bases Hudson River Radio dot com, but you can catch us wherever 217 00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:14.920 you get your favorite podcasts. That includes Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Spreaker, 218 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:17.799 et cetera, et cetera. We do a new show every week. 219 00:19:18.279 --> 00:19:22.720 We have a Facebook page. Being Frank, please think about becoming a subscriber 220 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.119 and leaving us a comment. We always love to hear from our listeners. 221 00:19:27.240 --> 00:19:33.079 We just heard from Uri Matsarski's a freedom fighter on the front lines and in 222 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.920 Ukraine, literally in the trenches. And now we'll be joined by a regular 223 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:41.319 guest who again puts himself in jeopardy to join us here to let us know 224 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:47.240 what's going on in Ukraine. Phil Atner. Phil, Welcome once again, 225 00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:52.039 Thank you for taking the time. Yeah, Frank, again, I asked 226 00:19:52.039 --> 00:19:56.559 the question of Uri, and I think it's a good question for you as 227 00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:00.119 well. How has your life changed? He's a Ukrainian directly are not you 228 00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:06.200 are doing British American citizen, but you've decided to spend the last year in 229 00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:11.400 Ukraine. How has your life changed? Well? I actually kind of like 230 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:15.200 you, Frank. I was on the road to retirement. I had kind 231 00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.599 of I was going to transition to doing, um, stepping away from hard 232 00:20:18.680 --> 00:20:25.000 news and kind of doing other things like documentary's or you know, short videos, 233 00:20:25.039 --> 00:20:27.720 factual videos, that kind of stuff. And then the war broke out. 234 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:33.839 And I had been on my Don Square in twenty fourteen, and I 235 00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:40.599 had promised the people there, who oftentimes would plead with me not to let 236 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:45.559 Ukraine fall from the front pages. They pleaded with me, you know, 237 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:49.920 don't, don't let us be forgotten. They knew this war was going to 238 00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:56.240 come. They know the Russians better than anybody. They know their character, 239 00:20:56.480 --> 00:21:06.200 they know their their instincts, their their desire to maintain their empire and their 240 00:21:06.279 --> 00:21:10.559 colony. And so they begged me not to forget Ukraine. Uh. And 241 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:15.440 I said, diameete promises that I would not. And so when the war 242 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.640 stuck out, instead of you know, completing my transition to a semi retirement 243 00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:25.599 or to kind of pursue interests of a different nature than hard news, um, 244 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:30.160 I came here uh and have been here except for a short break that 245 00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:32.680 I had to do when I to go back to the States. I've been 246 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:36.920 here for the entirety of it. And it's exhausting. Uh it is, 247 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:42.720 it's depressing, it's sad, it's uh, it's angering, it's it's infuriating. 248 00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:51.640 Um it's uh, it's it's also something that I feel very strongly about 249 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:57.920 doing because this country deserves to be free. Uh. There's there's I mean, 250 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:04.599 I have covered wars uh in you know, I've covered wars in a 251 00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:08.480 variety of their different locations, and nine times out of ten, for the 252 00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:14.960 most part, they're pretty murky. But this, this war is pretty clear 253 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:22.359 cut. It is it is an aggressive colonial imperial state utilizing terror tactics and 254 00:22:22.640 --> 00:22:30.720 brutality not limited to UH, but including rape squads and mass you know, 255 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:40.000 mass murder and um violations of international codes of conducts. Uh, not to 256 00:22:40.039 --> 00:22:44.640 mention the fact that the basic premise of the war is seizure of territory that 257 00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.880 does not belong to them. Um, this is clear cut, it's binary. 258 00:22:48.920 --> 00:22:56.759 It's it's black and white. The Russians are at their their at falls 259 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:03.160 here, They're they're conducting a just susting war. Well, and Phil might 260 00:23:04.079 --> 00:23:07.960 if I if I might jump in, And I think it's something important there 261 00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:11.359 because we as journalists and everybody talks about impartiality. Well, well, sometimes 262 00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:18.960 it's it's there's there's a thing about raining outside. You don't debate whether it's 263 00:23:18.039 --> 00:23:22.000 raining outside. You you stick your head out and you find out whether it's 264 00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.960 raining outside or it's not. It's that black or white. There is no 265 00:23:26.079 --> 00:23:30.680 nuance sometimes in part of telling the story is this is the story, and 266 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:36.000 in this particular case, it's Russian aggression. But how is that? How 267 00:23:36.039 --> 00:23:38.839 has it changed you, Phil? Has it changed you from the beginning and 268 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:45.319 how? If so? How? Well, I don't know if it's changed 269 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:48.480 me so much because I've I've seen war. I've seen the face of war, 270 00:23:48.599 --> 00:23:52.359 you know, over a period of twenty five years in my career. 271 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:59.160 Um, what it has, what it's reinforced in me, is the help 272 00:23:59.279 --> 00:24:03.519 that I never see another war ever again in my life. Um, that 273 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:07.319 this is the last war and the last environment in which people are suffering in 274 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:12.920 which I make a living or you know, which I cover as a journalist, 275 00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:17.960 because I'm not really making the living here. I'm doing this exactly. 276 00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.160 You're totally depended in every sense of the word. That's right, Um, 277 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:26.880 And I hope that I never seen another war. If there's anything that it 278 00:24:27.039 --> 00:24:30.160 is, Yeah, it has changed me. It's just reinforced the idea that 279 00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:36.839 I've done. I'm done covering and spending time. I'm it's human suffering. 280 00:24:36.839 --> 00:24:40.640 And I joke with my friends and they tease me back about it. Um 281 00:24:40.839 --> 00:24:45.039 is that you know my intention is to go and do documentaries about the migratory 282 00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:48.559 pattern of the monarch butterfly and the Pacific Coast Highway. You know that's being 283 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:56.240 a good Californian. Um, it's I'm done. I'm done with surrounding myself 284 00:24:56.240 --> 00:25:00.640 with suffering. And I wouldn't be here if it wasn't Ukraine. I would 285 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.599 not go to another war, I would not go to another natural disaster or 286 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.480 anything. I've seen enough pain and suffering in my life and I really don't 287 00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:12.559 need anymore. But it's Ukraine and I love this country. And also the 288 00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:19.519 cause is dust and so it's you know, when this is done, no 289 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:22.160 more, no more for me, I'm done. Well you know it as 290 00:25:22.200 --> 00:25:26.319 an aside too. In addition to the story, there's the personal toll, 291 00:25:26.359 --> 00:25:27.680 and we talked about it with Urie and those people. But you know, 292 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:33.039 as journalists, I think and I've I've had this conversation with my girlfriend in 293 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:37.799 time you're not immune, you're not beyond and you do get PTSD and you 294 00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:41.640 have seen certainly much more in terms of conflict than I have, but certainly 295 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.960 my share, even as do. I say to this day, the worst 296 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.920 story I covered was the Sandy Hook massacre. Of those those kids. You 297 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:55.440 couldn't help but feel it. So even in a practical so you have to 298 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:57.920 stay connected, but you have to stay a little bit detached at the same 299 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:02.880 time. How do you work that out in your life and your mind? 300 00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:07.680 Phil I try not to let it. I try not to suppress it. 301 00:26:10.359 --> 00:26:12.359 You have to put it aside sometimes because you have work to do and you 302 00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:18.640 and you want to do right by the people that you're covering. UM, 303 00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:23.480 But you can't suppress it, and you can't push it down because UM, 304 00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:29.759 I've seen that happen. I've seen what that's done to other colleagues. And 305 00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:36.839 if you try to pretend that you aren't feeling pain, if you're if you 306 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.960 if you try to pretend that this isn't really powerfully upsetting you know, then 307 00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.799 you try to bottle it up and eventually it explodes, and that's unhealthy. 308 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:52.920 I've seen that out to a lot of people who succumb to drug addiction or 309 00:26:53.039 --> 00:27:00.559 alcoholism or um or just you know, a real serious cases of PTSC which 310 00:27:00.960 --> 00:27:08.920 erupt oftentimes in violent behavior or anger management issues. So I try not to 311 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:15.440 suppress it. And I I am always skeptical of the people who come to 312 00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:19.079 these kind of situations and pretend that they can just brush it off. I 313 00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:22.720 find those people actually to be the most at risk and the guys that I 314 00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:27.039 try to stay away from or at least give a good distance too, Because 315 00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:33.319 if you don't have empathy, if you if you if you don't acknowledge that 316 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:40.559 this is this is deeply painful and very upsetting to to witness, to bear 317 00:27:40.640 --> 00:27:47.759 witness too, then you're then then you're kidding yourself. And Frank I can 318 00:27:47.799 --> 00:27:49.200 get a long with and I recognize. Then let me just wrap up with 319 00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:55.960 this. One of the frustrations I find with people who are hyper critical of 320 00:27:56.000 --> 00:28:00.799 the media is that you don't It is very easy to be an arm chair 321 00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:04.839 general. Is very easy to sit back and criticize the media. Now I 322 00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:08.519 am not. I have my criticisms in the meeting. Again, working from 323 00:28:08.559 --> 00:28:15.000 inside the media, I recognize where those fault lines lie. I have criticisms 324 00:28:15.759 --> 00:28:19.720 but those of us who come here and cover these stories do so at a 325 00:28:19.799 --> 00:28:26.240 cost so that you, the audience, have a better understanding of what is 326 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.519 happening to me in the world. All human beings are capable of fault and 327 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:37.079 of not living up to you know, maybe a better model or but we 328 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:41.559 try our best, and it is we are limited by our human natures. 329 00:28:41.559 --> 00:28:47.079 But what frustrates me is the is the concept that I see growing in the 330 00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:52.240 West and in particular in America, this lack of trust in institutions, and 331 00:28:52.440 --> 00:29:00.200 this ease with which people criticize the media. The media in quotation mark and 332 00:29:00.759 --> 00:29:04.480 you know, I have a dear friend of mine who I will miss for 333 00:29:04.519 --> 00:29:10.359 the rest of my life Pierre Zakuchevski, an Irish cameraman working for Fox News, 334 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.400 who I knew for over a decade and who I considered a very, 335 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:18.319 very close friend. And he was killed the very beginning of this war. 336 00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:26.160 And so I just urge people when they are hypercritical or distrustful of the media. 337 00:29:26.559 --> 00:29:30.200 There are people on the front lines here putting their lives at risk, 338 00:29:32.240 --> 00:29:38.640 not for any cynical reason, but genuinely from a desire to inform an audience 339 00:29:40.200 --> 00:29:44.559 of what is happening on this planet, and so I urge you. As 340 00:29:44.839 --> 00:29:52.000 Uri said, today is the day. It's the national holiday commemorating war correspondent, 341 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:57.599 specifically correspondence within the armed forces. But it still stands true that on 342 00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:03.599 a day where we recognize this sacrifices that war journalists make, just consider that 343 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:08.440 it's not so easy to come to a war zone and try to relate what's 344 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:14.680 actually happening here, because we are all subject to our own perceptions and our 345 00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:18.640 own limitations. But there are people out here putting their lives at risks, 346 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.119 and it hurts me that we have lost the trust of the public. But 347 00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:30.119 it also angers me that people would think that a band like Pierre Zakcheski would 348 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:36.200 pay the ultimate price, that his beloved wife is now going to be a 349 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:42.039 widow. And to say that that is done for some sort of cynical manipulation 350 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:48.480 of an audience, I find not only depressing but inferior. I'm so with 351 00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:53.559 you there, brother, and I don't don't don't spare it with people sometimes 352 00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.880 when they challenge you with that, and I try to maybe soften it somewhat 353 00:30:57.880 --> 00:31:00.680 with a little bit of humor, and I, oh, yeah, I've 354 00:31:00.759 --> 00:31:03.119 risked my life many times just so I can lie to you. I mean, 355 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:08.319 what's the think about, what's the motivation? And I have what motivation 356 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:14.640 could I possibly have to put my well being at risk just to tell you 357 00:31:14.720 --> 00:31:18.519 a lie does make any sense? But something, well, it's an unfortunate 358 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:23.559 social medium. All of that has contributed it, but it's it's a conversation. 359 00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:29.599 And the and the corporations that run the media networks is the middle management 360 00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:33.079 guys. Uh, you know, the guys who sit back and kind of 361 00:31:33.680 --> 00:31:38.160 dictate from their ivory towers. I have issue with um, but the people 362 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:44.319 who are out here doing the hard work of covering the news. They are 363 00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:48.359 not perfect, none of us are. But I just think it is so 364 00:31:48.559 --> 00:31:56.799 easy to be dismissive or critical when you know you are and also you're you 365 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:01.920 should be a willing participant in the information that you consume. So it is 366 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:07.880 not a one way road learn how to consume medium better. It is not 367 00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:14.839 a passive are important? Yes, especially today, Let's let's go back anyway, 368 00:32:15.079 --> 00:32:16.759 Yeah, yes, let's go And to go back to the business at 369 00:32:16.839 --> 00:32:22.240 hand. You mentioned and it was it was on my list here to ask. 370 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:30.759 Also, you mentioned the armaments and and and ammunition. How important is 371 00:32:30.799 --> 00:32:34.759 that? And is that foreign age package that we hear about the tanks. 372 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:37.759 But for us it can be just numbers in a very practical sense, because 373 00:32:37.759 --> 00:32:40.960 you're there and you see it. How important is it for them to have 374 00:32:42.000 --> 00:32:47.359 these so called tools, the armor, the artillery and all the other necessarily 375 00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:53.799 wage war. There's there's two things, um in the in the short well 376 00:32:53.839 --> 00:32:58.759 in the medium term, getting the weapon systems uh. And by that I 377 00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:06.599 do mean like tanks, infantry, fighting vehicles, drones, anti aircraft, 378 00:33:06.839 --> 00:33:13.279 defensive systems. Those need to get here as quickly as possible. But there's 379 00:33:13.279 --> 00:33:15.920 an old saying in the in the US military, and I'll see if I 380 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.920 can get it right here. First off, is it is slow as steady. 381 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.559 Steady is fast, if you follow me. So let's let's make sure 382 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.799 that those armored systems get here and are implemented properly, people are trained properly. 383 00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:34.880 We'll do we'll do it. We'll do it, you know, steadily, 384 00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:38.920 we'll do it competently. And in so doing, we'll get them online 385 00:33:40.039 --> 00:33:45.000 as quickly as we can, but also to the greatest effectiveness. The secondary 386 00:33:45.079 --> 00:33:52.640 issue is more pressing, and that is artillery shelves. As your mentioned there, 387 00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:59.319 the Russian military doctrine is very different than NATO military doctrine. They have 388 00:33:59.359 --> 00:34:04.960 two primary points of focus for the Russian military, and that is um and 389 00:34:05.079 --> 00:34:08.960 this is not you know, exclusive, but I'm painting with a broad brush. 390 00:34:09.639 --> 00:34:14.480 Um there. They will say otherwise, but their tactics tend to be 391 00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:16.920 soften things up with artillery, in which they called the god of war, 392 00:34:17.480 --> 00:34:22.440 and then follow it up with one resource that the Russians have that very few 393 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:29.719 countries can compare with, and that is bodies. Human beings. They have. 394 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:32.760 They have a lot of human beings that they can press gang for a 395 00:34:32.840 --> 00:34:37.280 variety of reasons which I won't go into because it goes into cultural stuff. 396 00:34:37.840 --> 00:34:42.280 But they can conscript an awful lot of people. And what they do is 397 00:34:42.360 --> 00:34:46.280 just throw numbers at the at the at the opposing lot. So you heard 398 00:34:46.639 --> 00:34:51.679 you're talking and I've heard this before as well. They will send a wave 399 00:34:52.480 --> 00:34:57.159 of soldiers to crash upon positions so that they can then find out where the 400 00:34:57.199 --> 00:35:01.840 strengths and weaknesses are, and then they will push their other conscripts in subsequent 401 00:35:01.880 --> 00:35:07.559 ways upon those more fortified positions. Now, what that means is that you 402 00:35:07.719 --> 00:35:15.559 have mass numbers of men poorly trained because they don't need to be heavily trained, 403 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:19.159 poorly equipped because you just give them an AK forty seven and at any 404 00:35:19.239 --> 00:35:22.559 more complex than that, you know, you really have to do some more 405 00:35:22.599 --> 00:35:24.960 training. Of course, there's anti tank weaponry, and there's all sorts of 406 00:35:25.039 --> 00:35:29.320 other stuff. Fin and large, we're talking about waves of men, which 407 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.159 in Russian they don't even call cannon funter. They call it cannon meat. 408 00:35:32.480 --> 00:35:37.039 That's why Urae kept saying waves of meat beat. That's the way the Russians 409 00:35:37.159 --> 00:35:40.599 look at it, and it's it's deeply cynical. It's deeply depressing. Now 410 00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:45.039 why do I mention that I mentioned that, because how do you address that? 411 00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:47.239 When you have waves of men coming at you? You call in an 412 00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:52.119 artillery because that's what you got to use. You got to use something that's 413 00:35:52.159 --> 00:35:55.719 going to blow up enormous swaths of land, and sadly, a bunch of 414 00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:00.400 young men, middle aged men included, who have been grabbed out of their 415 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:06.559 villages in Russia and thrust of the front line is there's no good side to 416 00:36:06.639 --> 00:36:09.400 this. It's depressing as hell, but that's what you need. You you 417 00:36:09.440 --> 00:36:14.840 know one one hundred and fIF about milimeter shelves fired from how itzers provided by 418 00:36:15.599 --> 00:36:21.119 UH you know, NATO's countries using even other Soviet or other systems, but 419 00:36:21.239 --> 00:36:27.920 it's artillery. Until those weapons systems, the tax and the infantry finding vehicles 420 00:36:28.000 --> 00:36:32.480 get here, and then the Ukrainians can can transition from holding defensive lines and 421 00:36:32.519 --> 00:36:37.079 they can actually start to get him a sense of maneuver ultimately, Frank, 422 00:36:37.360 --> 00:36:42.880 I am hopeful, cautiously optimistic, um, but maybe that's my fault that 423 00:36:43.079 --> 00:36:49.320 this will transition quickly from a position of static lines and defensive lines and sending 424 00:36:49.679 --> 00:36:55.320 waves and waves of conscripts against them to a war maneuver where Ukraine can can 425 00:36:57.360 --> 00:37:06.000 sweep around UH and and counter offenses and hopefully regain territory in large kind of 426 00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:12.360 seizures of open ground and whatnot and cut out supply lines, but ultimately hoping 427 00:37:12.840 --> 00:37:16.880 to get to the nineteen ninety one borders, which will include Crimea, which 428 00:37:17.199 --> 00:37:22.880 is very troubling to me, but I come around to the Ukrainian side and 429 00:37:22.199 --> 00:37:25.360 I think that they have to they have to take Crimea back. There's a 430 00:37:25.400 --> 00:37:30.920 whole bunch of questions about that, because then is it really liberation or are 431 00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:37.559 you occupying because there are people in Crimea that are ethnically Russian that do support 432 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:43.480 the Russian Federation, but how much we don't know because every referendum has been 433 00:37:43.559 --> 00:37:47.039 held under the under the gun from Russia. But at the end of the 434 00:37:47.159 --> 00:37:51.159 day, I think they should take corect Crimea. Certainly, they should take 435 00:37:51.199 --> 00:37:57.840 back the bombast and re established the internationally recognized lines that were that were guaranteed 436 00:37:58.039 --> 00:38:04.280 by us in the book Arrest Memorandum, you know, and uh, and 437 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:07.199 then we will see what happened in Ukraine. Does not want to invade Russia, 438 00:38:07.679 --> 00:38:13.880 but they should restore their lines and all of that right now in the 439 00:38:13.960 --> 00:38:19.079 immediate term, as the Russians throw these waves of the Ukrainians means supplying them 440 00:38:19.159 --> 00:38:22.559 with artillery shelves. From what we heard from Eurie just now and what I've 441 00:38:22.599 --> 00:38:25.719 been hearing from other sources on the front lines, they are not in any 442 00:38:25.840 --> 00:38:30.719 kind of imminent position where they're going to suddenly run out of AMMO. Then 443 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.519 not down to their last box of AMMO. They've got a little bit of 444 00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:40.199 latitude, but until they've got a supply line backing that up, they're they're 445 00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:46.760 gonna have to start limiting what they do on fire mission fire mission. So 446 00:38:47.199 --> 00:38:51.559 I spoke to a friend of mine who is a defense reporter here Jeb today 447 00:38:52.000 --> 00:38:57.440 and he said that they have transitioned their tactics to basically saying anything ten minute 448 00:38:57.480 --> 00:39:00.920 or less, don't call in artillery. That's that will. We're going to 449 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:06.519 save our shelves to concern the larger man, start the startington concern it. 450 00:39:06.639 --> 00:39:10.320 So um, I am still optimistic. I do not think the Ukrainians are 451 00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:13.840 going to lose. In fact, I know the Ukrainians are not going to 452 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:17.320 lose this floor, but we have to stand with them. I've heard that 453 00:39:17.440 --> 00:39:22.880 the US is pulling out something like three million shells from their stockpiles in Israel, 454 00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:25.639 which of course might have a ramification there. But this is the war 455 00:39:25.760 --> 00:39:30.440 we're fighting now, the mistake about it, and that's what they're the stockpiles 456 00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:37.119 are there for. So I think I still think Ukraine ultimately will win. 457 00:39:37.239 --> 00:39:40.440 And again I get along with and I know, but let me wrap it 458 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:45.239 up with this. What's the alternative, Frank, What's the alternative if we 459 00:39:45.400 --> 00:39:51.920 if the support for Ukraine is lost by some people who are playing domestic politics, 460 00:39:52.000 --> 00:39:53.880 and I won't go into details, but we know who they are right 461 00:39:54.320 --> 00:40:00.559 on Capitol Hill, and they're playing games. If they six and we withdraw 462 00:40:00.639 --> 00:40:06.199 our support for Ukraine, the consequences of that is we will have to sit 463 00:40:06.320 --> 00:40:10.440 by and watch as bystanders, as Russic in its atrocity. As for atrocity, 464 00:40:10.840 --> 00:40:15.840 and I am not being hyperbolic here, given their history, given their 465 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.679 mentality when it comes to war fighting, we will we if we well, 466 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:25.199 if we remove our support for Ukraine, we will be complicit and we will 467 00:40:25.360 --> 00:40:31.280 watch as a genocide. And I'm not I am not overstating that a genocide 468 00:40:31.400 --> 00:40:36.880 will happen in this country. Hundreds of thousands of innocent people will be rounded 469 00:40:36.960 --> 00:40:42.280 up, marched through tangaroo courts and slaughtered. It will be, if not 470 00:40:42.480 --> 00:40:45.639 hundreds of thousands, millions of people will be killed, and we will be 471 00:40:46.039 --> 00:40:52.039 We will be bystanders by removing our support. Are we do we have the 472 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:55.480 stomach? I know it's difficult to support a war, but do we have 473 00:40:55.599 --> 00:41:00.480 the summit the stomach to watch that happen? Because man's almost think about morning, 474 00:41:00.760 --> 00:41:04.280 that's what will happen. It was what could be interpreted as good news 475 00:41:04.320 --> 00:41:07.159 today. I was catching earlier and as I said, we're taping on the 476 00:41:07.239 --> 00:41:13.400 sixteenth of February from Belarus and their president Yukashenko said said that Belarus would not 477 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:20.239 attack Ukraine with its own forces unless attacked. Is that a hollow statement? 478 00:41:20.360 --> 00:41:22.840 Can they be trusted? Does it have any significance or meaning? One of 479 00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:28.760 your feelings fail you, you, lukink I don't. I don't trust Lucasenko 480 00:41:28.800 --> 00:41:30.559 anymore, and I can throw him underhead. He's a he's a deathbot. 481 00:41:30.679 --> 00:41:37.079 He's a he kills his own people with a little abandoned um. He two 482 00:41:37.159 --> 00:41:44.039 years ago now, if my recollection is correct, he conducted a false election 483 00:41:44.239 --> 00:41:47.639 and when there was an uprising he put it down violently. Um, Luca 484 00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:52.360 THINKO is not someone we should be putting in our trust in having said that, 485 00:41:52.960 --> 00:42:00.639 because there is a groundswell of anti Luksenko rebels basically internal with the he 486 00:42:00.840 --> 00:42:06.639 can't engage because most of his military sending he spends on suppressing his own people. 487 00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:12.280 If he were to transition that military power to attack Ukraine, he would 488 00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:19.480 find himself in real troub because the uprising would happen again. So I don't 489 00:42:19.760 --> 00:42:22.880 I think he may be honest when he says he Belarusian troops will not be 490 00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:29.320 used directly, but for cynical reasons, not for any kind of brand you 491 00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:38.960 know, digester Georgie Brank. But we are aware of various reports of aircraft 492 00:42:39.599 --> 00:42:45.440 being transitioned to Belarus, and it's a short flight from Belarus to the capital 493 00:42:45.599 --> 00:42:52.159 kids, so there's every chance that on the twenty fourth, the anniversary or 494 00:42:52.239 --> 00:42:58.440 the commemoration of the beginning of this war, the year commemoration. Because Russia 495 00:42:58.559 --> 00:43:06.199 likes to do symbolic attacks are based on dates on the calendar, which is 496 00:43:06.239 --> 00:43:08.360 part of the reason why I say they are a terror outlet, because their 497 00:43:08.400 --> 00:43:15.000 intention is to use violence and warfare in terms of messaging, not strategically. 498 00:43:16.159 --> 00:43:21.320 We are here in the capital kind of feeling like we're waiting for the other 499 00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:29.360 shoot to drop, because we do anticipate that launching from Fellovision airfields, we 500 00:43:29.599 --> 00:43:36.840 could have you know, attack strike the aircraft and bombers getting here in such 501 00:43:37.000 --> 00:43:43.519 quick fashion that maybe our air defense might be overwhelmed us. That's the greater 502 00:43:43.599 --> 00:43:46.639 fear from Bellar rops, not that there would be a direct invasion. There's 503 00:43:46.639 --> 00:43:53.599 another shadowy organism or shadow organization that we hear quite a bit about and certainly 504 00:43:53.639 --> 00:44:00.840 relates to the so called meat assaults, the Wagner Group group, as it's 505 00:44:00.920 --> 00:44:07.400 also some cap Wagner named Can you tell us about the organization about them? 506 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.480 What do you know? What do you know about the brutal? They're brutal, 507 00:44:10.559 --> 00:44:16.000 They're they're where they they're headed up. They're headed up by a buddy 508 00:44:16.079 --> 00:44:22.920 of Vladimir Prutins from Saint Petersburg progosion, and he is ofttimes referred to as 509 00:44:22.000 --> 00:44:28.400 the as Prutent Chef because he started in the post Soviet space with a bunch 510 00:44:28.480 --> 00:44:34.960 of hospitality and catering locations that he turned into a vast fortune. And he's 511 00:44:35.000 --> 00:44:39.760 part of Putin's inner circle, and he created a mercenary group called, as 512 00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:45.519 you mentioned, the Wagner Group, named after Hitler's favorite composers. So you 513 00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:49.320 know, all the arguments that Ukraine's filled with Nazis, maybe somebody should be 514 00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:54.719 looking at Russia's fascists and Nazi tendencies. And they are well known around the 515 00:44:54.800 --> 00:45:01.280 world as being ruthless, as being a true ulus, as as being uh 516 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:06.920 criminals, not soldiers, but criminals. Um. There are reports out of 517 00:45:07.360 --> 00:45:14.480 say the Central African Republic of the murdering pregnant women in manner in ways that 518 00:45:14.599 --> 00:45:16.840 I don't want to go in the year because it's too disturbing to relate. 519 00:45:17.480 --> 00:45:24.039 Um. They have an open tactic that they they revel in. Not only 520 00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:28.679 do they try and hide it, but they revel in it um by um 521 00:45:30.079 --> 00:45:37.159 uh as disturbing as this his apologies. Uh. They they if anybody is 522 00:45:37.239 --> 00:45:44.119 seen to be retreating or not fighting or you know, it's not obeying orders. 523 00:45:44.599 --> 00:45:47.480 Uh, they will use a sledgehammer and a pile of bricks that they 524 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.639 wrap the head of the victim. There's no other words for a victim around 525 00:45:52.679 --> 00:45:59.639 a pile of bricks and they they they kill them using a sledge brutally, 526 00:46:00.039 --> 00:46:05.639 actually in a brutal manner. The videotape it. And now there's some talk 527 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:09.519 that maybe some of this is performative and it is actually theater to strike fear 528 00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:14.599 in their enemies and things like this. Although even the fact that they would 529 00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.360 revel in this kind of act and then they'll go to other people supporting them 530 00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:24.800 and give them chroned um sledge hammers with their emblem audit even if they aren't 531 00:46:24.840 --> 00:46:28.519 really doing it. And I actually do believe that they do it, maybe 532 00:46:28.559 --> 00:46:31.159 not all the time, maybe some of it is performative, but at least 533 00:46:31.320 --> 00:46:38.360 one instance I am I'm convinced was real. For them to revel in that 534 00:46:38.519 --> 00:46:44.519 kind of brutality gives you an impression of the mentality of our troops. Would 535 00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:51.280 never ever do that, even even as loathsome an organization of mercenaries as say 536 00:46:51.400 --> 00:46:57.000 Blackwater, who I saw it in the Iraq War, even they would not 537 00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:05.280 be much less advertising um, they would know the limitations of that. Uh. 538 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:09.760 It just gives you an insight into the mentality of these guys. So 539 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:15.239 they have not been as successful as Progosion would have liked them to be. 540 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:20.199 They were they were slated to actually take the town to buck Moot, and 541 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:22.320 they weren't able to do it. It's well, it's it's well known that 542 00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:29.719 Progosian wanted to present that to Vladimir Putin on a platter so that he could 543 00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:34.400 get more funding for his for his group, and probably had a good chunk 544 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:37.400 of it off for himself. He wasn't able to do that. But the 545 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:44.360 Wargner guys are are certainly not superman uh, and they're not taken from the 546 00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:49.079 best ranks of Russian society. It's well known that the Bogner's recruit from inside 547 00:47:49.119 --> 00:47:54.159 prisons because those men have nothing left to lose, and there's a criminal underclass 548 00:47:55.239 --> 00:48:01.000 that can be ordered to sign up. So that is depressing and distressing as 549 00:48:01.039 --> 00:48:05.719 well. And you know, just the last note on on Wardner and They're 550 00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.199 kind of make up is that not only are they doing things like going to 551 00:48:08.320 --> 00:48:13.960 prisons, but they make contracts where they they're the rest of the prison term 552 00:48:14.000 --> 00:48:19.000 will be commuted. So they're taking psychopaths, rapists, and murderers out of 553 00:48:19.079 --> 00:48:23.039 their prisons, giving their weapons and having them fight a new prank and should 554 00:48:23.119 --> 00:48:28.480 they survive for these six or nine months, depending on the contract, they 555 00:48:28.519 --> 00:48:32.440 will be returned to their villages. So in essence, they're taking criminals out 556 00:48:32.480 --> 00:48:37.159 of prisons, putting them in a war zone, which will increasingly, you 557 00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:43.360 know, will will only make their trauma and their psychopaths ssarchompathy or their you 558 00:48:43.440 --> 00:48:49.320 know, we know, it will feed, it will feed the more you 559 00:48:49.440 --> 00:48:52.039 know, vile signs of their age, and then they're going to send them 560 00:48:52.159 --> 00:48:57.000 home. Yeah, I mean, this is just after after all that blood, 561 00:48:58.079 --> 00:49:02.159 after all the bloods. It's just the Russians are there is this deep 562 00:49:02.320 --> 00:49:08.760 sickness in Russia. And I sadly, because I lived in Russia for five 563 00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:13.199 years and I have met a great deal of Russian prince, a great many 564 00:49:13.320 --> 00:49:17.639 Russian prince the family, I have to say there's a there's a sickness at 565 00:49:17.679 --> 00:49:22.320 the heart of Russian society, and it is festered there for a long time. 566 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:27.400 I'm talking centuries, I'm talking Czaris, Russia, talking Soviet Union, 567 00:49:27.639 --> 00:49:31.760 and I'm talking to Putin era. And unfortunately, as depressing as it is 568 00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:36.559 for me to say, maybe this is the wake up call that they need 569 00:49:36.719 --> 00:49:40.960 to finally look in the mirror and do some really hard work in constructing civic 570 00:49:42.079 --> 00:49:46.599 society and healing the trauma that the Czars, the Soviets and now Putin have 571 00:49:46.679 --> 00:49:52.039 inflicted on that society. So but until that time, Ukraine has to defend 572 00:49:52.079 --> 00:49:59.119 itself from a country that has an illness, a really sick illness, a 573 00:49:59.199 --> 00:50:04.400 mental illness. In the future, Phil, is it possible at this point 574 00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:10.079 to predict a future for Ukraine? Is it possible even now a realistic future 575 00:50:14.440 --> 00:50:16.320 for Ukraine? Yeah? Is it too early to speculate in the middle of 576 00:50:16.400 --> 00:50:20.039 this brutal No, no, no, no, no, I look, 577 00:50:20.079 --> 00:50:22.480 I live amongst the Ukrainian people. I have been coming here for twenty two 578 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:29.960 years. When this country is released from the shackles of a despotic moscow, 579 00:50:30.519 --> 00:50:34.880 which they have been trying to release themselves for the better part of three centuries, 580 00:50:35.880 --> 00:50:38.639 this is going to be a powerhouse. Now they have trauma, they're 581 00:50:38.639 --> 00:50:40.280 going to have to deal with that. I was out when I was out 582 00:50:40.320 --> 00:50:45.360 in Leviv recently, I spoke to an educator who was saying, we have 583 00:50:45.440 --> 00:50:49.760 to deal with the trauma of the children, because we don't want them growing 584 00:50:49.880 --> 00:50:55.679 up twenty years from now with that trauma and resorting to anger management issues or 585 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:01.199 alcoholism or you know, the trauma as a sore. They are going to 586 00:51:01.280 --> 00:51:07.320 be proactive about that. But by and large, I have complete faith in 587 00:51:07.440 --> 00:51:12.079 this country. It is going to be an absolute powerhouse. This is one 588 00:51:12.119 --> 00:51:16.679 of the largest year This is actually excluding Russia, which is not strictly speaking 589 00:51:16.760 --> 00:51:22.800 solely European. This is the largest European nation on the continent. It will 590 00:51:23.079 --> 00:51:30.559 it will at some point be its competitor to France and Germany, and there's 591 00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:34.519 a lot of talk about that. Actually that's there's some speculation that there's concerned 592 00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:39.760 within the EU that this might shift the balance to a more easterly based power 593 00:51:39.840 --> 00:51:44.159 structure within Europe. We'll have to wait and see about that. That's years 594 00:51:44.199 --> 00:51:46.360 in the future. There's going to be in a reconstruction period. There's going 595 00:51:46.440 --> 00:51:52.239 to have to be healing and a lot of work needs to be done. 596 00:51:52.440 --> 00:52:00.079 But this country has a massive aggrib business industry, it has intellectual property that 597 00:52:00.320 --> 00:52:05.920 is astounding. This is a well educated, modern nation state. There's a 598 00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:13.320 military industrial complex. There's all sorts of reasons to believe that Ukraine is going 599 00:52:13.519 --> 00:52:17.119 to be one of the most powerful countries in Europe and in so doing being 600 00:52:17.239 --> 00:52:22.599 one of the most powerful countries on the planet. I believe that I think 601 00:52:22.679 --> 00:52:25.360 this GDP is going to be enormous. There will be lad leafs that will 602 00:52:25.360 --> 00:52:30.679 be paying us back for that which we have lent to them in this critical 603 00:52:30.760 --> 00:52:35.239 time of need. But you know, it's a price they're willing to pay. 604 00:52:36.400 --> 00:52:42.239 But I have every belief that once the period of recovery, which could 605 00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:45.760 take you know, five years, ten years, maybe more, I hope 606 00:52:45.840 --> 00:52:49.840 not, this is going to be This will be an amazing country. And 607 00:52:50.000 --> 00:52:52.639 not only that I mentioned agribusiness. I mentioned all these other things, tourism. 608 00:52:53.360 --> 00:52:59.159 This is a beautiful country, Frank, it's I mean and lovely culture, 609 00:52:59.599 --> 00:53:04.559 music, art, food, you'll sally not cynically, but it's funny. 610 00:53:04.559 --> 00:53:07.400 You talk to a lot of Ukrainians to talk about like Russian culture, 611 00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:09.920 and they say, most of that was imperial Russia, and it was the 612 00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:15.440 Ukrainians that they they stole our best artists to go to their imperial courts. 613 00:53:15.519 --> 00:53:20.440 So with a bit of pride they say, actually, you know, all 614 00:53:20.800 --> 00:53:24.159 of the best Russian artists really Rainians. So I find that funny, but 615 00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:30.400 I'm true with that. That But I urge anybody who who watches this or 616 00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:35.079 here's this um, when this war is over come with it, you will 617 00:53:35.119 --> 00:53:39.000 find a people who are accommodating. They are friendly, They will be so 618 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:43.800 grateful for all the effort and support that we have given them. You will 619 00:53:43.840 --> 00:53:50.400 find h beautiful women stunning stunning. The beautiful women um for very sad reasons 620 00:53:50.440 --> 00:53:54.960 because many of the men die and so they they you know, the prettiest 621 00:53:55.000 --> 00:53:59.119 of the women kind of are the ones they get married. You will find 622 00:53:59.239 --> 00:54:06.280 food that heartening, music, artistry, and the landscape from the Carpathian Mountains 623 00:54:06.679 --> 00:54:13.440 to the historic beauty of Leviv or Harkiev and then of course the coastline in 624 00:54:13.519 --> 00:54:17.719 Odessa. This is a wonderful country and I urge everybody, what's the source 625 00:54:19.280 --> 00:54:22.199 over to come here and see what it was all about, and you'll know. 626 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:25.320 You'll know instantly for the second you step foot in this country in a 627 00:54:25.400 --> 00:54:30.960 post war Ukraine. Why it is that that this country deserved our support and 628 00:54:31.079 --> 00:54:35.400 what a beautiful, wonderful place this is. Well, we remain helpful. 629 00:54:35.679 --> 00:54:39.079 We'd like to thank our guests for being frank and their intelligent conversation. YOU'REI 630 00:54:39.159 --> 00:54:44.519 metsartsky earlier and fill it or feel always a pleasure to see you, my 631 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:49.760 brother. We'll see you again. Please be safe, okay. Always Our 632 00:54:49.840 --> 00:54:53.480 most important command if you will for you is be safe out there. Okay 633 00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:58.599 we'll do. Thank you, and of course especially my first roadio, but 634 00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:01.119 not my first rodeo, but hopefully my last. Hopefully you're last in a 635 00:55:01.239 --> 00:55:05.119 very good sense of the word. I hear your brother, dude. Of 636 00:55:05.199 --> 00:55:07.880 course, special thanks to our listeners who take the time to give us a 637 00:55:08.000 --> 00:55:12.960 voice in their lives. And remember we offer a fresh topic every week and 638 00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.239 you can catch us wherever and whenever you get your favorite podcasts in places like 639 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:21.599 Apple, Spotify, iHeart Radio, Speaker, and more. You can also 640 00:55:21.760 --> 00:55:24.719 check us out on the Being Frank Facebook page. I'd like to leave you 641 00:55:24.800 --> 00:55:29.760 with two last little nuggets, and I think you'll appreciate this. Most of 642 00:55:29.800 --> 00:55:32.800 all, Phil comes from Malcolm X. If you're not ready to die for 643 00:55:32.960 --> 00:55:38.119 it, put the word freedom out of your vocabulary. Pretty straightforward. I 644 00:55:38.199 --> 00:55:43.320 happen to agree. I've got some great closing music from Christopher Shaeffer. I 645 00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:46.440 really like it, and it's called Sound This. We'll be back with another 646 00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:51.440 Being Frank next week. I'm your host, Frank Lebono. Let's see you 647 00:55:51.559 --> 00:56:10.360 next time. Thanks for joining me. When you the moment, when you 648 00:56:24.360 --> 00:57:38.960 you you pot, when you when you put your point, when you Hudson 649 00:57:39.119 --> 00:57:40.440 River radio dot com