1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,319 This is a triangle. You know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in 2 00:00:03,359 --> 00:00:07,240 the Randallsham par Is concident. It doesn't involve aliens at all. It was 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:14,800 completely silent. It comes right over our heads. Classics also really stunning into 4 00:00:14,839 --> 00:00:17,480 clearing. He turned over to my father and held his hand, and he 5 00:00:17,559 --> 00:00:25,079 looked in his eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,320 for our live show. During the show, feel free to participate live in 7 00:00:29,399 --> 00:00:33,840 our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook 8 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:38,280 page. Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin Willisher host, and 9 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:43,679 we have a fun show for you this evening. The hang on just a 10 00:00:43,719 --> 00:00:46,320 second, I see what's going on? All right? We have a fun 11 00:00:46,359 --> 00:00:53,039 show. And what is happening we have we have in house here. We 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:58,880 have a guest and his name is Ryan mcclashing. And actually I was at 13 00:00:59,039 --> 00:01:03,200 a bagel shop and met Ryan and he told quite a story. So he 14 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:08,040 has driven over from not too far away and is going to be telling his 15 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,719 story what happened before that though. We have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the 16 00:01:12,799 --> 00:01:21,120 news and just a couple of announcements this Friday for anyone that can actually participate 17 00:01:21,239 --> 00:01:25,120 and watch something live during the day Friday at one pm Eastern Standard Time, 18 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,239 we have the Sons of Jay Alan Heineck that will be on the show in 19 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,840 a live stream on YouTube and it will also be a bonus podcast for subscribers, 20 00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:40,000 So that'll be going out over the weekend. Should be exciting. And 21 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:46,840 anyone that wants to email questions for Paul or Joel Heinick, just email me 22 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:51,799 at podcast I'm sorry Martin at podcast UFO dot com. I'd be glad to 23 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:56,000 post some questions. I already have some questions. I posted something on Facebook 24 00:01:56,519 --> 00:01:59,439 and so that will be a lot of fun. So that's coming up. 25 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:04,079 My guest night is repeat guests and good friend Peter Robbins. He will be 26 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:08,360 on right after with Ryan and he's going to join me to talk with Ryan 27 00:02:08,439 --> 00:02:14,240 about his UFO encounter. Thanks so much to everyone that supports a show that's 28 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:19,879 always very appreciated, and also each and every listener out there is important and 29 00:02:20,159 --> 00:02:23,919 thanks for checking out the show and listening. And we have a lot of 30 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:27,919 exciting shows coming up and I'll talk about that later on at the end of 31 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,319 the show. And Alejandro, welcome to the show and thank you. Hello, 32 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:36,639 thank you. We had a little tough start here and no problemo. 33 00:02:37,039 --> 00:02:39,680 Yeah, hey, you don't have your background today. I have a different 34 00:02:39,719 --> 00:02:43,800 background, just a black Yeah. I like him. So yeah, there's 35 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,520 a number of man and black right there. Yes, yeah, keeping it 36 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:52,199 simple, right right, So what's what's happening in the UFO world? This 37 00:02:52,639 --> 00:02:57,199 this lest to happen end. So there's a lot of discussion around the television 38 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,080 show Project blue Book. And the reason I bring it up because I think 39 00:03:00,159 --> 00:03:04,800 one of the most important discussions that happened is in the Air Force Times. 40 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:09,120 So this is a great article and essentially it's funny that you know, they're 41 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:14,919 reviewing Blue Book and talking about, of course, the Air Force and their 42 00:03:14,960 --> 00:03:20,400 involvement with UFO research. So they talk about blue Book, they talk about 43 00:03:20,479 --> 00:03:28,120 how it is based on reality, but mid story they say the series diverges 44 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,439 from historical fact when Heineck begins to suspect that he has been duped by the 45 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:37,639 government into a conspiracy to cover up the truth. That are kind of saying, 46 00:03:37,719 --> 00:03:40,759 you know, that didn't really happen. However, they do, interestingly 47 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:46,879 enough, go into how if Heineck did feel that way he would be justified 48 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,520 in feeling that way because they actually go into some of Heineck's work and how 49 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,360 the Air Force was kind of you know, his problems that he had with 50 00:03:55,479 --> 00:04:00,439 the Air Force. Then interesting enough, the story goes into to say that, 51 00:04:00,639 --> 00:04:03,479 you know, Project Bluebook closed, they didn't really find much, and 52 00:04:04,159 --> 00:04:08,960 they use this quote that you can find on the Air Force page. It 53 00:04:09,039 --> 00:04:13,879 says, since the termination of Project Bluebook, nothing has occurred that was support 54 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:19,319 a resumption of UFO investigations by the Air Force. Some of us are very 55 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:24,639 familiar with that term. But they do go on to say it has been 56 00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:30,000 recently revealed that the Pentagon did acknowledge it did have a UFO program. They 57 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:33,480 referenced that New York Times article and they say it ran from two thousand and 58 00:04:33,519 --> 00:04:39,480 seven to twenty twelve. And what they say is that it's suspected that this 59 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:46,759 program still goes on to this day. So it's a thorough, you know 60 00:04:46,079 --> 00:04:51,120 article. And do you think it's a you think it's informative without being you 61 00:04:51,199 --> 00:04:58,160 know, like acting Smith Fringy subject. I don't think so. I think 62 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:03,519 it is. In fact, the way that it ends is the existence of 63 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:10,240 these programs doesn't necessarily mean that UFOs are extraterrestural in nature, but they do 64 00:05:10,480 --> 00:05:15,839 show that the government takes unidentified aerial objects seriously, perhaps worried about the ever 65 00:05:15,959 --> 00:05:24,079 growing capabilities of near peer adversaries or far so, which I think is honest, 66 00:05:24,199 --> 00:05:29,519 you know that, And that's which is different though it kind of this 67 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:33,879 was not the sort of statement we had been getting prior to Alisando coming out. 68 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,279 Prior to that, it was more dismissive. So for them to say 69 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:44,040 this, I think it's really important and a significant change in tactic, and 70 00:05:44,199 --> 00:05:46,959 that they're saying, Okay, yeah, UFOs are important, you know, 71 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:50,000 and explain things. We need to look into them because of what they could 72 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:55,279 potentially be, which is exactly what UFO researchers have been saying and many have 73 00:05:55,399 --> 00:05:58,800 been saying for a long time. And we know they look into these things, 74 00:05:58,879 --> 00:06:01,279 but they deny looking into them at all, which is just was a 75 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,240 ridiculous stance to take, and it was a stance that they took for decades. 76 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:13,000 So I think this change is helpful. And I also want to say, 77 00:06:13,519 --> 00:06:15,759 you know, there's been a lot of back and forth and in the 78 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:20,720 UFO community, not surprisingly because the UFO community is one of the most cynical 79 00:06:20,759 --> 00:06:25,959 and negative communities I think out there. I don't know if it takes to 80 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:29,519 call yourself a UFO research you have to have a grumpy, bad attitude or 81 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,800 something like that, or one readily available. Before I move into that, 82 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,920 I just want to ask this one question. Where can someone find that article? 83 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:42,839 It's the Air Force Times, Air Force Times, thank you, Yeah, 84 00:06:42,879 --> 00:06:46,720 And of course you can find that on open Minds and our Open mind 85 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,439 UFO group forum or I think I've got this one on our front page, 86 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:55,560 but if not, I will soon. But the other there is another Bluebook 87 00:06:55,759 --> 00:06:59,920 article, and this one is about the first episode, which is a nineteen 88 00:07:00,079 --> 00:07:03,519 forty eight dog fight that the first episode was representing. And here's my point 89 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:09,319 is that culturally, here's the significance of this show. And I did on 90 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,639 my Dent of Geek review of the show, I even wrote this that regardless 91 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,680 of how accurate the show is, the end result, the big result that 92 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:20,680 I think is helpful is that people are paying attention to real cases and that 93 00:07:20,839 --> 00:07:25,720 this project Bluebook existed at a level that we never had. There was no 94 00:07:25,959 --> 00:07:30,319 reason for the general public to get involved with knowing any of this, and 95 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,319 now there is. And so here's a story from a local paper that is 96 00:07:35,399 --> 00:07:41,160 writing, the Bismarck Tribune, writing about, Hey, this first episode of 97 00:07:41,319 --> 00:07:46,600 this television show covered a UFO case from our area, and then they review 98 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,360 this remarkable case. What is a great case? So I think we're just 99 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,560 going to see more and more of that as a week's goo by and cases 100 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,399 are covered, more local papers writing, hey, this TV show covered us, 101 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:03,160 and then there'll be more information getting out about these great cases. And 102 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:07,720 I think what people are forgetting and I haven't seen this referenced in not one 103 00:08:07,879 --> 00:08:11,920 critique article that was critical of the show. I think it's fair that you've 104 00:08:11,959 --> 00:08:18,000 got to mention that the History Channel is posting some great articles that are going 105 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,480 over these real cases. And I think that that is something they didn't have 106 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,920 to do and no one else has ever done before. So I think these 107 00:08:24,959 --> 00:08:28,959 are you know, maybe I'm being a Pollyanna, which I don't mind my 108 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:33,679 role being looking at the positive, but I think there's a lot of positive 109 00:08:33,759 --> 00:08:37,159 effects here that are going to result from this show. For people of us 110 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,840 interested in this field. Well, I don't know about you, but if 111 00:08:41,919 --> 00:08:45,399 I watch something and I'm really interested in it, and it says based on 112 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,360 a true story. The first thing I do after I watch it is I 113 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:52,240 go in our research that story so exactly this is just what I do. 114 00:08:52,480 --> 00:08:58,120 You know, I like to know what exactly really did happen. And I'm 115 00:08:58,120 --> 00:09:01,480 in the same way, will do that too. Yeah, And you know, 116 00:09:01,639 --> 00:09:05,000 I assume that the show is going to be way off from history, 117 00:09:05,039 --> 00:09:09,519 and that's why I want to look at the real history because usually they are. 118 00:09:09,759 --> 00:09:13,600 It's not often that they stick really close to the facts because it's that's 119 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,679 just extremely difficult to do when you're fictionalizing something. For drama to be interesting 120 00:09:18,759 --> 00:09:24,840 to people, you've got to kind of encapsulate, you know, ideas and 121 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:28,600 concepts, and which is what they've done with the show. And I still 122 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:33,879 do like the show. I understand people's concerns. But yeah, so that's 123 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:37,519 Project book news. Since he said it himself live on my show, I'm 124 00:09:37,519 --> 00:09:43,679 going to repeat what mc maloney said. He said, I'm not going to 125 00:09:43,759 --> 00:09:46,360 watch that, and I said why And he says, you said, you 126 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,759 know, they add theatrical elements to it. He says, Nah, it's 127 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,879 not for me. He says, aren't UFOs enough, you know, isn't 128 00:09:54,919 --> 00:09:58,039 it enough the way it is, they don't have to add anything to it. 129 00:09:58,279 --> 00:10:03,879 And but I you know, that was mc maloney's comment on the whole 130 00:10:03,919 --> 00:10:05,840 thing. But I thought, he's he's going to watch it like you know, 131 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,759 do some closet watching. Yeah, I like the rest of us. 132 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:16,000 Yeah, another story that is really getting out there, which is great. 133 00:10:16,039 --> 00:10:20,399 And of course you had him, Calvin Parker on your show is it Pascagoula 134 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:26,039 case? And in an Alabama paper this is out of Mobile, Alabama. 135 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:33,440 Fox out of Mobile has done this special on Pascagoula. Of course that happened 136 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,360 in Mississippi. But they've got this special that I haven't watched it, but 137 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,840 they have an article that accompanies it. And I guess it's nearly an hour 138 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:45,600 long. H the one I watched. Now, I probably watched a shorter 139 00:10:45,799 --> 00:10:48,639 version of it. It was it wasn't really that long. I can't remember 140 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,240 exactly how long, but it was very well done. Actually, I was 141 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:58,000 really impressed, and there was you know, it's I love Calvin and um, 142 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,639 I can't wait to eat him at your conference this year. And he's 143 00:11:01,759 --> 00:11:05,240 very believable. He is, and I think that he's kind of like a 144 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:11,080 Walton Travis Walton, who had, you know, alleged alien experiences, but 145 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:16,159 he's a very grounded, down to earth person and talking to Travis to me 146 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,720 is one of the things you can do that will convince you the most. 147 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:24,000 And Calvin is like that also, just a very grounded person. And it's 148 00:11:24,039 --> 00:11:28,480 shocking and it must be his personality to see all of these news outlets who 149 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:35,279 are writing about this case taking it seriously and not really making fun of it, 150 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:39,720 which is surprising because it's a really wild thing that they described it happening. 151 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,120 So it's it's nice to see this this positive news that's out there. 152 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:50,600 Yeah, and I just can't see I can't see Calvin making any of that 153 00:11:50,879 --> 00:11:54,440 up. And for the people you know that have not listened to that shore 154 00:11:54,759 --> 00:11:58,000 or know much about the case. Basically, they were fishing and then this 155 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,840 blue light came down and these beings, i think three beings floated toward them 156 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:09,240 and as soon as they touched one of them touched him, two grabbed Hickson. 157 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,000 But as soon as they touched Calvin, he said he felt, you 158 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,600 know, completely relaxed, and he said he basically levitated back to the ship. 159 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:22,720 And you know, they did experiments on him not you know, evasive 160 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:26,320 experiments, but and then basically let him go. We floated back and there 161 00:12:26,399 --> 00:12:30,399 he was and didn't want to talk about it. And the best thing I 162 00:12:30,519 --> 00:12:33,519 think of that whole entire case is when they snucked the tape recording into the 163 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:39,440 police. The police snucked the tape recording into the room when they didn't know 164 00:12:39,639 --> 00:12:41,440 anyone was there, and you know, they were recording how scared they were 165 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:46,120 about the whole situation, and then they passed by the detector tests. You 166 00:12:46,159 --> 00:12:48,120 know, It's great. I think another credit build part of this is that 167 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,559 Calvin took off. He didn't want spot, he didn't want attention, and 168 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:58,759 he literally left town and was gone and didn't speak about this for decades until 169 00:12:58,919 --> 00:13:03,559 just recently. And I think that LEDs to the credibility as well. And 170 00:13:03,679 --> 00:13:07,399 I was not to try to sound like I'm bragging, but I was basically 171 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,120 the first person to dig him up for many years and had him on my 172 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:16,399 show and got him connected to Phil Mantle to write the book and all that 173 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,919 stuff, so that really I was really glad to really really, I guess 174 00:13:18,919 --> 00:13:22,639 I didn't realize that timeline I got Phil had met him first. No, 175 00:13:22,759 --> 00:13:26,159 no, I connected the two together. So anyway, it was really I 176 00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:31,559 was grateful that I was able to do that, and well done Martin. 177 00:13:31,919 --> 00:13:35,759 So this whole news kind of fury that's going on with him, this whole 178 00:13:37,279 --> 00:13:41,759 all these stories are largely you're the one who made this all happen. Well, 179 00:13:43,279 --> 00:13:46,000 I helped with a little about it probably would have happened anyway, but 180 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,919 I appreciate that. Maybe a good job. Yeah, So one other story 181 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,159 I want to talk about real quick here. I just think this is a 182 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,000 neat one, this story going around why our galaxy probably isn't full of alien 183 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:03,960 civilizations they could have been killed off by climate change. But I think it's 184 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:11,879 an interesting thought in that, you know, if there are many many intelligent 185 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:16,360 civilizations out there, which seems to make sense that there would be in the 186 00:14:16,480 --> 00:14:20,840 statistics show that that would be the case, then it could be also the 187 00:14:20,919 --> 00:14:26,360 case that many of these have come and gone, possibly some like this from 188 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:33,919 natural or natural occurrences, some maybe by destroying themselves, and you know, 189 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,320 who knows a number of other ideas. So I think it's kind of neat 190 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,840 to speculate about these sort of things, and who knows, will we be 191 00:14:41,039 --> 00:14:46,799 killed off by climate change, or will we kill ourselves off? Or will 192 00:14:46,879 --> 00:14:52,480 we make it into some grand future of enlightenment. I would like to hope 193 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:58,039 for the last, the latter, but fear for the prior. One of 194 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:05,120 the prior. Yeah, yeah, exactly, I fear too. And anyway, 195 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:09,799 hopefully we'll catch it before it's too late. Thanks so much, Alejandro. 196 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,360 Nice talking to you, and we'll be talking next week. My pleasure 197 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,360 to talk to you next week. All right, okay, take care, 198 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:20,399 all right, everyone, So our guest and we only have five minutes. 199 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:26,240 I'll break at this point. Our guest is Peter Robbins. Peter, welcome 200 00:15:26,279 --> 00:15:28,879 to the show. Thanks. It's great to be back on with you, 201 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,639 Martin. Always always great to be back talking with you. And let's see, 202 00:15:35,879 --> 00:15:41,679 so I want to also bring in Peter. We'll talk further about what's 203 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,320 going on with you and what we're going to be talking about. Some interesting 204 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:52,919 things, James forrestal of course, and also you're a good friend fellow artist 205 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,960 Bud Hopkins. We're gonna be talking about that for now. I'm going to 206 00:15:56,039 --> 00:16:02,080 bring in our local guest, Ryan mcclashing. Ryan, welcome to the show. 207 00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:04,080 Thank you very much, glad to be here. Yeah, yeah, 208 00:16:04,080 --> 00:16:10,440 I have to keep looking this way to see you. But anyway, Peter, 209 00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:12,799 so I talked to you briefly ahead of the show. I met and 210 00:16:12,919 --> 00:16:18,440 Ryan locally here in a bagel shop. So, Ryan, I would love 211 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:22,440 for you to tell the first of all, the setting first, and tell 212 00:16:22,519 --> 00:16:26,000 us your story how that all happened. All right. So it was on 213 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:33,600 October second, twenty and sixteen. I had been working in the Greater Moosehead 214 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,159 Lake region of Maine, and at the time I was working on hiking trails. 215 00:16:37,159 --> 00:16:41,559 I had some friends who had a camp very close to where I was 216 00:16:41,639 --> 00:16:45,799 staying, and two of my very good friends came up to see me and 217 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:51,360 to spend some time there. And on that evening of the second, we 218 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:56,399 had been having just a fantastic day. We were walking back to the cabin 219 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,320 that I was staying at, which was about a quarter mile maybe a third 220 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:03,919 of a mile away from his family's place. And it's six miles down a 221 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:07,759 dirt road, about seven or eight from a town of about a thousand people, 222 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:12,079 so pretty far out there. And as we were walking up this hill, 223 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:15,000 we were all side by side, and I had a headlamp on, 224 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:22,480 and we saw this light coming almost at us, but kind of diagonally towards 225 00:17:22,559 --> 00:17:26,880 us through the woods. And it's an older growth forest, so it's pretty 226 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:33,119 open and definitely a mixed mixed wood species. And as it was coming towards 227 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,480 us, we all turned to it. And what I saw and what they 228 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:45,960 saw was three three different things but some similarities within it. I saw what 229 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:51,079 I believed to be a woman in all white in a white robe, floating, 230 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,400 and my other friend thought they saw a man in all white floating with 231 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:59,599 that he had a light with him. And then the other friend doesn't remember 232 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:06,240 what he's saw. But when I experienced in that moment was I felt drawn 233 00:18:06,319 --> 00:18:11,319 to it as if I couldn't not turn towards it, and so can I 234 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:17,160 just yeah, please, when you when this was floating at you, at 235 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,039 first you thought it was a light. Now this was above you and floating 236 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:25,480 towards you. Yeah, it was almost as if we were walking towards it. 237 00:18:25,559 --> 00:18:27,119 But it was coming into a bit of a different direct trajectory through the 238 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:32,039 woods, so it wasn't directly at us, but it was going to almost 239 00:18:32,079 --> 00:18:34,640 transact our position in a sense. But but you were saying that there were 240 00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:38,000 three lights, but you see, but you saw one figure out a piece 241 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,160 for three lights. There was there was one, there was one. I 242 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,160 was saying there was three of us and uh and the one the one light. 243 00:18:45,279 --> 00:18:49,160 But it it came, and it got hard to describe. It almost 244 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:56,559 like indeffinitely bright in such a fast time period that I felt myself lose control 245 00:18:56,640 --> 00:19:00,519 of my body and I just felt myself dropped to my knees as my arms 246 00:19:00,599 --> 00:19:07,319 went limp and I lost consciousness in that time period, and it felt like 247 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:11,480 everything in my body and my life's stopped. And then I was hit with 248 00:19:11,599 --> 00:19:17,319 so much positivity from whatever this experience was. And then I came to and 249 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,400 I was in my kitchen at my camp that was down the road. Were 250 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,000 you like on the floor, I was, I was. I was not 251 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:29,640 on the floor, I was standing. And my two friends explained to me 252 00:19:29,759 --> 00:19:33,920 that from what they believed is that we walk back. So neither one of 253 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:38,119 them claims to have fully lost consciousness, yet all three of us have different 254 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:44,079 recollections of what even where it happened. After was the discussion, So Peter, 255 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:47,160 you can jump in if you want to ask any questions. Yeah, 256 00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:53,480 Ryan, first, I'm very moved by this. You're obviously doing your best 257 00:19:53,559 --> 00:20:00,400 to relate to us in the audience a genuine, extraordinary experience that you truly 258 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,160 had and your friends did as well. And I think that takes a certain 259 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:11,720 amount of courage and I appreciate it. You remind me, and I've been 260 00:20:11,799 --> 00:20:18,839 involved in paranormal studies for over forty years, that if I ever lose the 261 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:30,000 sensibility or the ability to respond to something like this from a person, I 262 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:37,279 think I should leave this field. About what time did this occur? And 263 00:20:37,519 --> 00:20:41,599 was it already dark? Yeah? It was, it was dark. The 264 00:20:41,799 --> 00:20:48,279 last reference that I had for a time was around seven fifteen or seven thirty, 265 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,880 okay? And when did this occur exactly? Um, you're saying the 266 00:20:53,079 --> 00:20:56,319 exact time that happened or no, I am about you know, a week, 267 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:02,240 two weeks, a month ago? You're yes, this was October sixth, 268 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:07,920 October second, twenty sixteen, okay, And um, obviously you had 269 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:12,160 never had an experience like this before. I'm no, okay and never since? 270 00:21:12,599 --> 00:21:17,240 Nope. So about how I'm sorry, We're gonna have to we're gonna 271 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:19,920 have to break it there and uh, and we're gonna I just made a 272 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:25,119 note, Peter of what you asked and we'll come back to that. Yeah, 273 00:21:25,519 --> 00:21:27,279 So thank you Ryan, thank you all right, And so this is 274 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:34,839 Martin Willis. I have an in studio guest Ryan mcglashin and Peter Robbins as 275 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:38,559 a guest and the podcast UFO. We'll be back right after these messages. 276 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:44,200 Wow, sorry for the delay. All right. So now we're on YouTube 277 00:21:44,319 --> 00:21:48,400 only and uh so we have I hope I'm not keeping you too long by 278 00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:53,119 okay, So we have three minutes to go here on YouTube only. So, 279 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,720 um, Peter, you're welcome or I'm gonna ask him a different question 280 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:03,240 and we'll go back to work your your option after the break. And so 281 00:22:03,559 --> 00:22:11,359 you're saying that your other friends had different experiences, can you explain what each 282 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,200 of them? Basically, if you sat down had a beer with your buddies, 283 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:21,240 how would they describe what happened? Um, very briefly. And they're 284 00:22:21,319 --> 00:22:23,400 not as comfortable as I am to even talk about it. I think that 285 00:22:23,519 --> 00:22:30,200 there's a bit to it where they're both proud, big, strong, independent 286 00:22:30,279 --> 00:22:34,359 men, and the fact that happened they don't have the control. Yeah, 287 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,599 they don't have the words to describe it. And I've tried to talk to 288 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:41,720 them about it. But it's just like, you know, it's not it's 289 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:45,200 not a it's not so much of a talking point more as it's like we 290 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,039 should not talk about it. Yeah, yeah, they change the subject or 291 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,559 something, or not even so much change the subjects. It's just I just 292 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,559 know I know them well enough that it's it's we talked about it so much 293 00:22:56,799 --> 00:23:00,880 in that in that night and after it just it seemed like we couldn't make 294 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:06,720 sense of much of anything. But yet it was so we couldn't sleep, 295 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,000 you know, we didn't want to be outside, but we didn't really know 296 00:23:10,079 --> 00:23:15,400 what to do. I think for so you've had an adrenaline dump and dump, 297 00:23:15,279 --> 00:23:21,079 there's an aspect of physiological shock. It is a classic guy reaction, 298 00:23:21,319 --> 00:23:23,920 not that it doesn't happen to women, but it's a classic guy thing. 299 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:30,279 Some of us are less armored or you know, to be sound, new, 300 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:34,880 aging, more in touch with our feelings, less anxious about expressing them 301 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,599 or feeling them. But your heart has to go out to these guys because 302 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:45,039 this represents everything that makes you uncomfortable, that you can't control, that stops 303 00:23:45,079 --> 00:23:48,720 at the end of what is finite, definable. I only wish him the 304 00:23:48,799 --> 00:23:55,599 best, but don't push h Yeah. So yeah, they're basically at the 305 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,880 end of wanting to talk about it, obviously. And had you ever considered 306 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,160 regression? Yes, I have, yeah, yeah, And what do you 307 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,759 think about that? Are you scared to do that? Of course? Yeah. 308 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:15,279 Yeah. It's a really terrifying period of my life. Everything that I 309 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:19,720 felt is that I knew and had experience. I have goosebumps right now just 310 00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:23,119 thinking about it. It was you know, you, you believe, you 311 00:24:23,279 --> 00:24:26,400 question, you want to try to understand better, and then something happens and 312 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:33,039 it's like a fresh it's the new it's a new, fresh canvas. It's 313 00:24:33,079 --> 00:24:36,960 like, Wow, what's going on? I can't even was down when you're 314 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:38,160 ready? Oh, we have one minute left. I'm sorry, go ahead. 315 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:44,359 Yeah. I can't even tell you how many times I've heard variations on 316 00:24:44,559 --> 00:24:48,039 people say those things that what you just said to me, or that I 317 00:24:48,319 --> 00:24:52,599 have said it regarding the experience that I had when I was a kid growing 318 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,200 up on Long Island and had the profound UFO sighting with my sister that ultimately 319 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:03,079 changed my life, right right, Yeah, Peter, We've talked about that, 320 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,599 and that's pretty amazing. And I if I remember correctly, Peter, 321 00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:11,599 did your sister block that out No, she never forgot it. I'm the 322 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:15,880 one that blocked it out right totally for more than fourteen years. We're ready 323 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:21,720 to get started here, okay, so feel free to break into the conversation. 324 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,440 Countess down, Yes, all right, anyone, welcome back. This 325 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,039 is Martin Willis and I Martin Willis. I have my guests, Peter Robbins 326 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:37,640 repeat guests of course, and Ryan mclashing and we're talking about Ryan's experience he 327 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,799 had in the deep woods of Maine, up near the largest lake in Maine. 328 00:25:41,839 --> 00:25:44,559 It's a big, huge lake and a lot of wilderness and a lot 329 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:48,960 of strange things. The things have happened up there, including the Alagash in 330 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:52,240 send It not too far from there. Have you looked into when this happened? 331 00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:56,200 Ryan? And I know Peter you were talking before we went into the 332 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,160 break and asking about when it happened. We'll get back to that. But 333 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:07,039 when this happened, what did you think happened? Did you? Did you 334 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,519 try to research what happened? I did. I did try to research it, 335 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,799 but I I I felt like I was contacted by some being of a 336 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,240 higher power, and that's all I could come to terms with. This is 337 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,759 part of the very difficult, um, a bit of trying to talk to 338 00:26:23,599 --> 00:26:27,599 my two friends and experiences what They didn't know what happened, but when you 339 00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,039 said, did you say those words to them? And they freaked them out. 340 00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:37,359 My friend when we were in back at my place and where I regained 341 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,720 consciousness, and he said that we need to go back to the camp and 342 00:26:41,759 --> 00:26:44,680 I need to grab a gun to harm myself. And I just looked at 343 00:26:44,759 --> 00:26:47,799 him and laughed like I was. I was crying at the time too. 344 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,920 I was overwhelmed. I was like, it's not even a thought you should 345 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,039 have right now, Like whatever that was, there's no, there's not a 346 00:26:55,160 --> 00:27:00,440 gun out there that's gonna protect you. All right, Well said and Ryan. 347 00:27:00,799 --> 00:27:03,440 You were asking about when this happened, and I think he kind of 348 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,160 addressed it was our sixteen or yea, the second of two thous No, 349 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,319 that's understood now. Um. You had mentioned when we were off the air, 350 00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:18,319 but on YouTube continuing a conversation that your conscious memory is there was a 351 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:25,119 feeling of certainly a positive feeling overwhelmed you. You weren't terrified in your conscious 352 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:30,279 mind. Yeah, when I turned towards the being in the light. It 353 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,920 it hit me with so much positive energy that I felt like that was what 354 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,440 made me lose consciousness. Yeah, and I came too, and I was 355 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:45,960 crying, both with being scared but also with like happiness and confusion. Yeah, 356 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,000 it was. I honestly felt like I was killed and reborn in an 357 00:27:49,039 --> 00:27:56,359 instant. It just yea in your choice of words, is very affecting, 358 00:27:56,000 --> 00:28:03,680 and again I think spot on your best to describe an indescribable situation. However, 359 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:08,039 also mentioning off the air, when Martin asked you if you've considered regressive 360 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:15,960 hypnosis to relive or confront the situation that does make you anxious, that there 361 00:28:15,079 --> 00:28:19,160 is a feeling of maybe this wasn't a fun event on a certain level, 362 00:28:19,319 --> 00:28:23,279 and that what I remember, what I experienced was what we would call a 363 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,680 screen memory, and there is something behind it that could provoke tremendous anxiety. 364 00:28:29,039 --> 00:28:33,000 Mildly, Yeah, I feel pretty anxious right now thinking about it. Well, 365 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:40,640 respect that over many years that I work with Budd Hopkins, who pioneered 366 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:45,039 the use of regressive hypnosis to a great degree, extensively with people who had 367 00:28:45,079 --> 00:28:55,000 had abduction and experience or related events. His first advice in terms of them 368 00:28:55,119 --> 00:29:00,759 considering it is, are you sure even if you feel consciously you want to 369 00:29:00,839 --> 00:29:03,920 know what went on? You want to relive it very laudatory. You may 370 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,279 be brought phase to phase with a terrifying experience or something that will make you 371 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,680 sad or blast the positive memory that you think you have of this event. 372 00:29:18,319 --> 00:29:22,359 So this is not a time sensitive matter. You can decide to do it 373 00:29:22,759 --> 00:29:30,960 years from now. I waited several years to undergo regressive hypnosis for my UFO 374 00:29:32,119 --> 00:29:37,480 sighting that I had had with my sister who had an abduction experience as part 375 00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,640 of that sighting. My concern, my curiosity was it did this happened to 376 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:47,119 me too? When I did it, I was ready for it, and 377 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:55,759 I did three separate hypnotic regressions over a year or two with three different individuals. 378 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,759 But that was my choice on my time. I should also say that 379 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:07,039 the memory that I had was the memory that was confirmed, and nothing has 380 00:30:07,079 --> 00:30:11,880 rattled anything else loose, even though I've been deeply involved in this field for 381 00:30:11,119 --> 00:30:17,839 decades, so I'm fairly confident that that was it for me. But respect 382 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:19,519 your feelings, I guess is what I'm saying, and you can come back 383 00:30:19,559 --> 00:30:25,880 to this at another time. It is rough in a way that the people 384 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,279 that you had the experience with are as reticent as they are. Got to 385 00:30:30,319 --> 00:30:36,200 cut them slack, perfectly natural reaction for some folks at least, that's something 386 00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:38,880 better, I think, on a certain level than having had the experience all 387 00:30:40,359 --> 00:30:45,519 by yourself where it didn't it. That kind of feeling doesn't help, right, 388 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:48,720 Ryan, I know you have to go, So just one one quick 389 00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:52,400 question, last question. Do you feel as though you had any missing time 390 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:59,319 in the whole event? Yeah, definitely, yep. Yeah. The last 391 00:30:59,359 --> 00:31:03,640 time that I looked at the time source, i'd say seven fifteen or seven 392 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:07,920 thirty. I remember it being well before eight, and then when I gained 393 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,599 consciousness it was closer to eight thirty. I want to say, it was 394 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,640 like eight twenty three. Yeah, well that's that makes it even more interesting. 395 00:31:17,039 --> 00:31:18,960 Well, hey, Ryan, thank you so much. I appreciate Yes, 396 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:22,160 thank you very much driving out here. Yes, no, and Ryan, 397 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,440 thank you very much also. And I think I speak for many of 398 00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:32,640 Martin's listeners. It takes courage to share these events, and you know, 399 00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:34,680 bless your heart and good luck and all things in the future. Thank you 400 00:31:34,759 --> 00:31:40,559 very much. If you folks want to bring me on again and ask me 401 00:31:41,519 --> 00:31:44,799 more questions about it than I'd been more than happy to do that. Yeah, 402 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:47,839 if you if you have a point, and I've never would ever push 403 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,400 you for this, but if you do have a point where you do the 404 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,599 hypnotherapy and you find out more about it and you want to talk about it, 405 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,119 you're welcome back on. Yeah, thank you very much, Thank you, 406 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:07,160 gentlemen. Thank you. All right, So now I'm bad. So 407 00:32:07,319 --> 00:32:10,720 that was interesting, huh, Peter, very much so. Yeah, and 408 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:15,400 just a local guy that he saw a UFO hat in a bagel shop, 409 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:22,480 and that's how a conversation has in absolutely nothing to gain by going public with 410 00:32:22,599 --> 00:32:28,279 this, even in the private way that he did. So I salute the 411 00:32:28,839 --> 00:32:32,440 everyday courage of everybody that has ever crossed that line and said, you know 412 00:32:32,559 --> 00:32:36,759 what, I'm not going to keep this to myself, even if I'm going 413 00:32:36,799 --> 00:32:40,559 to protect my identity in the course of it. I need to share this 414 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,599 or I think I should share it. Yeah. Yeah. The last time 415 00:32:45,599 --> 00:32:52,000 I had a situation like that happened, it was a woman casually talking about, 416 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,279 oh, I know where you live Sebago. Main this is when I 417 00:32:54,319 --> 00:32:59,279 was living in Sebago and she said, yeah, I had a UFO experience 418 00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:01,559 there And I said, what what did you just say? And she was 419 00:33:01,599 --> 00:33:04,400 going to be on the show, but left me high and dry. She 420 00:33:04,599 --> 00:33:09,680 never never picked up her phone. So I understand, I understand, and 421 00:33:09,799 --> 00:33:13,119 I don't hold that against people. And as a matter of fact, I 422 00:33:13,200 --> 00:33:15,160 wrote Ryan this morning, I said, hey, you know, can you 423 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,640 confirm you're going to be here? You know, because a lot of times 424 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,960 people get cold feet, they get nervous. Actually talked about it for the 425 00:33:22,039 --> 00:33:29,759 first time publicly. So Peter, we are going to be touching on a 426 00:33:29,839 --> 00:33:35,000 couple of things, and one of them is a Forestall. I know you 427 00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,920 have an interest in that in James Forrestall, and I know he was the 428 00:33:38,039 --> 00:33:45,559 first Secretary Secretary of Defense. I believe that well. His name has been 429 00:33:45,599 --> 00:33:54,079 associated with the subject indirectly since Roswell research began in the nineteen eighties, led 430 00:33:54,160 --> 00:34:01,880 by Stanton T. Friedman. Forestall himself was an extraordinary man whose life is 431 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:07,039 very much worth studying, and whose death allegedly by his own hand. We 432 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:13,400 history records that he killed himself on May twenty second of nineteen forty nine, 433 00:34:14,559 --> 00:34:22,320 and that's what the public buys, generally speaking. I first became interested in 434 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,400 him to the point of obsession for quite a long time in nineteen eighty seven, 435 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:37,079 because that summer was when the so called Majestic twelve Eisenhower Briefing document became 436 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:40,239 public. It was, as I know, you know and many of your 437 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:47,559 listeners I'm sure, a eight page document from allegedly from nineteen fifty two purporting 438 00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:54,639 to be a briefing document to President elect Eisenhower informing him of the formation of 439 00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:04,320 a special highly classified study group in ten forty seven following immediately following on the 440 00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:10,679 Roswell crash MJ twelve. The twelve refers to the number of individuals that were 441 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:16,960 involved in that first wave of this study group, and one of them was 442 00:35:17,079 --> 00:35:24,760 James Forrestall the damage that can be done to a person's life, who has 443 00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:30,679 the courage to come forward in this case, Major Jesse Marcel Senior, who 444 00:35:31,079 --> 00:35:35,920 at the time of the events in the summer of forty seven was the base 445 00:35:36,119 --> 00:35:42,280 intelligence officer on the old Roswell armi Are Base, who was the one who 446 00:35:42,679 --> 00:35:52,679 the base commander authorized to release the statement that a flying saucer to use a 447 00:35:52,960 --> 00:36:00,760 then terminology had crashed, which he did General Blanchard, which Blanchard was a 448 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:07,239 tough, no nonsense veteran of World War Two, like Marcell himself, who 449 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,039 was a pilot who had been shot down during the war, ended up as 450 00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:17,719 a pow. The one thing that Blanchard didn't do before authorizing Marcel to make 451 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:23,119 that world shaking announcement was clear it with the Pentagon, which for me is 452 00:36:23,199 --> 00:36:30,320 one of those great moments in American history. Unfortunately, within twenty four hours, 453 00:36:30,559 --> 00:36:37,039 the big shots went ballistic and of course got in Blanchard's face, who 454 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:44,400 ordered Marcel basically humiliated himself in front of the world, something I don't think 455 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:49,480 he ever really recovered from, and to pose with fragments of a mobile weather 456 00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:54,880 balloon and say that this was what he mistook for a giant, honking debris 457 00:36:54,960 --> 00:37:01,559 field filled with extraordinary metal and bodies of a number of non human beings and 458 00:37:01,639 --> 00:37:08,199 allegedly one living one. With that as brief backstory, there is an actor 459 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:15,000 who briefly plays the part of James Forrestall on a quick visit to New Mexico, 460 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:22,079 looking through a glass partition at this non human being, registering a look 461 00:37:22,159 --> 00:37:29,440 of tremendous concern and giving rise to the idea that the stress was too much 462 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,559 for him. It was a brief appearance, but that's where a certain amount 463 00:37:31,559 --> 00:37:40,599 of the UFO related mythology legend, so to say, Forrestall's involvement, what 464 00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:47,639 happened with me was in eighty seven, there was a very important UFO Congress. 465 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:52,400 It was eighty seven. It was that summer fortieth anniversary of Roswell Kenneth 466 00:37:52,519 --> 00:37:59,320 Arnold Modern Age UFO sidings, and it was held at American University in Washington, 467 00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:05,480 DC. The speaker who had the biggest impact on me was Stan T. 468 00:38:05,679 --> 00:38:10,079 Friedman. Stan gave as good a research paper as I've ever heard on 469 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:15,719 anything in my entire life, and it was a real factor in my deciding 470 00:38:16,639 --> 00:38:24,800 to commit myself professionally to this work and move into what will laughingly call my 471 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,760 serious career in uphology. It was called the Secret Life of Donald K. 472 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,920 Menzel. Again, as many of your listeners know, Menzel was a He 473 00:38:37,119 --> 00:38:42,559 was essentially Professor emeritus of astronomy. They hit astronomer at Harvard, and as 474 00:38:42,639 --> 00:38:49,000 such had huge standing in both the astronomical community and in the academic community. 475 00:38:50,039 --> 00:38:52,639 What Stan was able to do, and nobody had done it before, was 476 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:57,760 get permission from Harvard to see all of his papers there, to get permission 477 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,960 from his widow to see papers that she personally held, and to get permission 478 00:39:02,199 --> 00:39:07,599 to go through all of his records in the National Archives. And what stand 479 00:39:07,679 --> 00:39:13,000 proved beyond any reasonable doubt was this man lived a double life. He was 480 00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:20,880 an asset of the national security community in the United States and the first UFO 481 00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:23,840 debunker, and he did tremendous damage to the truth. He was, so 482 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,000 to say, the godfather of Philip Class, the person most Americans who are 483 00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:34,159 knowledgeable about the subject of UFOs associate with debunking. And to cut to the 484 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:38,880 chase, I had received a copy of MJ twelve some months before, making 485 00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:43,679 me feel quite like an insider from somebody whose name I won't mention right now. 486 00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:46,159 But that summer at all broke and it was as big a topic of 487 00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:52,159 conversation at that conference as anything, and I decided that I was going to 488 00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,960 do a research project of one of these twelve individuals, all of them tops 489 00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,880 in their field, ind Jules, who certainly would have been considered to be 490 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,719 surrounding the President of the United States, to try to figure what the hell 491 00:40:08,119 --> 00:40:14,599 to do relative to this incursion from parts on known. I had it down 492 00:40:14,639 --> 00:40:22,079 to several people, including Forrestall and Vanavar Bush for me as somebody who is 493 00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:27,199 endlessly fascinating in the late forties, if you were to pick up a copy 494 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:38,320 of Who's Who, Bush's honorariums and degrees and titles and business in the scientific 495 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:45,039 community were mind blowing two and a half pages worth. He had been Franklin 496 00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:52,320 roosevelt science and technology advisor than Truman's. He was the man who brief Truman 497 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:59,679 on the Manhattan Project the day that Roosevelt died. He was he was a 498 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,599 nominal character. And I remember shortly after the conference sitting down with my parents, 499 00:41:05,119 --> 00:41:08,079 both very politically aware of people, asking them if they had a take 500 00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:12,400 on which way I should go with this. It was going to take considerable 501 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:16,079 time and work. And my mom said to Forestall, I said, okay, 502 00:41:16,239 --> 00:41:22,480 why, she said, you have no idea how important he was to 503 00:41:22,639 --> 00:41:27,199 us during World War Two, the impact, the positive impact he had on 504 00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:31,239 our winning the war. He was absolutely charismatic from the early forties until he 505 00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:36,480 died. Next to Truman. His name was in the paper more than anyone, 506 00:41:36,599 --> 00:41:42,559 and he had tremendous courage. And then she said he is also very 507 00:41:42,639 --> 00:41:45,599 handsome, very charismatic, and his high school girl had a crush on him. 508 00:41:46,079 --> 00:41:52,480 And I thought, well, that's that. And I started to research 509 00:41:52,599 --> 00:41:59,360 his life and equally important, his death, and started to draw parallels and 510 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:04,880 then put on a very strict timeline, and it became the most accomplished research 511 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:07,840 project I had ever taken on. I'm still very proud of the work of 512 00:42:07,960 --> 00:42:12,719 the initial findings that I had, and I kept at it kept coming and 513 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,280 going. I didn't give a talk on it until two thousand and four, 514 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:22,400 but every few years I kept picking it up again, and that happened about 515 00:42:22,519 --> 00:42:29,800 two years ago, and I've continued to fill in blanks to tighten my presentations 516 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:34,360 and articles on the subject, and have actually, as of last year, 517 00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:40,039 taken a step outside of all of the presentations I've done over the decades. 518 00:42:40,679 --> 00:42:45,039 I have a love of theater. I've had it since I was a kid. 519 00:42:45,119 --> 00:42:49,679 I had the privilege of working off Broadway for quite a number of years 520 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,079 as a manager of one of New York City's finest repertory companies, work with 521 00:42:55,199 --> 00:43:01,000 Academy Award winners and Tony Award winners studied acting for years. Although I've never 522 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,480 wanted to be an actor, I love the craft and love people learning it. 523 00:43:06,199 --> 00:43:15,239 And what I did was create a staged to act dramatic reading of the 524 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:22,800 life and death of James Forrestall on stage with a company by about one hundred 525 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:29,719 and fifty images that flash behind me as I speak with an intermission. I've 526 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,800 workshopped a little bit and I'm at a point right now of Okay, this 527 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,400 is good. I can tie this up, and it gives me access to 528 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,440 an audience that normally would not be interested in going to a quote unquote UFO 529 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:46,880 lecture what I'm toying with right now, and I have a person in mind 530 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:52,159 to approach to be a collaborator on this. I've never written a play, 531 00:43:53,639 --> 00:44:00,039 and I'm very uncomfortable in a way with taking all of the factual material and 532 00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,880 extrapolating on it, creating dialogue rather even if it's dialogue that I think might 533 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:10,679 have been said, and creating a drama in two acts. That would be 534 00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:14,760 one person play, and the only way I could manage it, after a 535 00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,639 lot of consideration, would be not that I would be taking part in it, 536 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:24,119 other than as the writer and certainly helping the director, etc. But 537 00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:30,920 it would be written for a professional actor, and the actor would be playing 538 00:44:30,079 --> 00:44:38,079 James forrestall after he's dead. Looking back, having just said that alone, 539 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:43,280 I think you realize this is quite a challenge and something I will or won't 540 00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:45,639 do. I'm kind of a negotiation right now about it, and we'll see 541 00:44:45,679 --> 00:44:51,440 how it goes. It's again, I started my life as a painter. 542 00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:58,199 I'm a creative person. I've always tried to apply that creativity to doing quality, 543 00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:04,079 well informed presidenttions and articles, and this would just be taking it one 544 00:45:04,159 --> 00:45:08,519 step beyond as far as I'm concerned. Well, really interesting now, I 545 00:45:08,679 --> 00:45:16,239 know. You know, whenever James Forrestell comes up, there's questions on whether 546 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:20,599 he was pushed out the window, whether he jumped out the window. I 547 00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:25,960 understand, you know, he suffered from depression, and as far as I 548 00:45:27,039 --> 00:45:34,519 know, I have that right. Yes, I feel certainly a contributing aspect 549 00:45:34,599 --> 00:45:38,639 of that depression, which was observed not just by people who cared about him, 550 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:44,679 but in several cases by people who did not care about him, but 551 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:51,159 commented in their memoirs or their diaries, etc. Go back to the summer 552 00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,000 autumn, well, the autumn of nineteen forty nine, he was sworn in 553 00:45:54,800 --> 00:46:01,239 as our first Secretary of Defense, after having created the Department of Defense, 554 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:07,199 not as part of a committee. After the war, Harry Truman, so 555 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,840 impressed with how he had run the Department of Navy, and he ended up 556 00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:17,000 being a Secretary of Navy by the end of the war, asked Forrestall individually 557 00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:22,320 to dismantle the old War Department, because that's what we called it since the 558 00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:29,400 Revolution, and create this new thing, a modern Department of Defense, which 559 00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:35,400 he did. He was sworn in as Defense Secretary six and a half weeks 560 00:46:35,519 --> 00:46:40,079 or so after Roswell. If you read the job description of the department of 561 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,960 the Secretary of Defense, he is next to the president. He knows everything, 562 00:46:46,519 --> 00:46:51,480 and in those weeks that would have followed his being sworn in, he 563 00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:54,239 would have learned everything that had happened in the previous month and a half, 564 00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,239 it would have all been on his shoulders. He is now in charge of 565 00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:07,199 the greatest military conglomerate ever on earth that we know about for sure, and 566 00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:13,800 yet nothing that he could do or order affected what had happened. I am 567 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:19,079 here to tell you, and I don't usually do this. I'm not somebody 568 00:47:19,159 --> 00:47:27,800 who tosses out absolutes, but years and years and years of research have convinced 569 00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:35,559 me beyond any reasonable doubt that not only was he murdered, he understood once 570 00:47:35,639 --> 00:47:38,119 he had had his breakdown, and he did have a profound nervous breakdown, 571 00:47:39,199 --> 00:47:45,880 it manifested itself on March seventeenth of nineteen forty nine, the afternoon that he 572 00:47:45,559 --> 00:47:52,719 stepped down from office. Having worked in crisis intervention for years, to be 573 00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:57,960 blunt in New York City, on the busiest suicide hotline in America, I 574 00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:01,559 know a fair amount about that dynamic mix of the intense depression that leads to 575 00:48:02,519 --> 00:48:08,880 somebody being so low in their heart and soul that ending their life is preferable 576 00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:15,440 to keep living. He understood better than anybody that once he had had this 577 00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:22,880 breakdown, that there were individuals, very powerful individuals, arrayed around Harry Truman, 578 00:48:23,719 --> 00:48:31,559 who knew that this man had to die. They couldn't risk him having 579 00:48:31,639 --> 00:48:37,119 a relapse. And again, this is nineteen forty nine, not twenty nineteen. 580 00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,480 In nineteen forty nine, I think it's fair to say, let's say, 581 00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:45,880 one person in a hundred in America knew somebody who might have seen a 582 00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:52,880 psychiatrist. Maybe now one person in a hundred in America, one person in 583 00:48:52,159 --> 00:48:59,960 five hundred in America knows somebody who doesn't know somebody who has seen a therapist 584 00:49:00,039 --> 00:49:06,760 or a psychiatrist or something. This man and he understood it. And I 585 00:49:07,079 --> 00:49:14,280 sadly was able to document several times in those intervening days before he was institutionalized, 586 00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,079 but as a naval hospital where he did try to kill himself like a 587 00:49:17,199 --> 00:49:22,760 good Roman soldier, throw himself on his sword, but they stopped him. 588 00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:28,639 He went into therapy and started to recover and then had to die. And 589 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:31,920 he did not go out that window willingly. There's no question about that. 590 00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:36,960 Okay, well we have to stop right now and we're going to all right, 591 00:49:37,239 --> 00:49:39,840 that's it for the free part of the show. Thank you so much 592 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,920 for listening, and if you can remember to check out this show coming up 593 00:49:45,079 --> 00:49:51,840 on Friday at one pm Eastern Standard time, and that is going to be 594 00:49:52,039 --> 00:49:59,079 with Joel and Paul Heineck Jay Allan Heineck's two Sons, and that's a live 595 00:49:59,159 --> 00:50:05,000 stream show and if you that also goes out to the podcast for subscribers. 596 00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:07,360 It's a bonus show for them. It'll be going out over the weekend, 597 00:50:07,599 --> 00:50:14,039 so anyway you can find that on YouTube. If you cannot support the show, 598 00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:17,320 that show will be up on YouTube after this Friday. So next week 599 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:22,840 we have Vincent Ariello and he is a fighter pilot. He has a fighter 600 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:30,039 pilot podcast. We're gonna be talking UFOs and also Tyler Rogue Away, so 601 00:50:30,159 --> 00:50:36,039 it's an aviation based He is the war Zone the Drive. He's a blogger 602 00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:42,719 and also a pilot and we're gonna be talking to them both. And thanks 603 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:45,639 so much everyone, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.