This is a triangle. You know, there's explanation for everything that occurred in
the Randallsham par Is concident. It doesn't involve aliens at all. It was
completely silent. It comes right over our heads. Classics also really stunning into
clearing. He turned over to my father and held his hand, and he
looked in his eyes and said, we're not alone. Welcome to podcast UFO
for our live show. During the show, feel free to participate live in
our chat room, and don't forget to like us on our very active Facebook
page. Hello, and welcome to the show on Martin Willisher host, and
we have a fun show for you this evening. The hang on just a
second, I see what's going on? All right? We have a fun
show. And what is happening we have we have in house here. We
have a guest and his name is Ryan mcclashing. And actually I was at
a bagel shop and met Ryan and he told quite a story. So he
has driven over from not too far away and is going to be telling his
story what happened before that though. We have Alejandro Rojas coming up with the
news and just a couple of announcements this Friday for anyone that can actually participate
and watch something live during the day Friday at one pm Eastern Standard Time,
we have the Sons of Jay Alan Heineck that will be on the show in
a live stream on YouTube and it will also be a bonus podcast for subscribers,
So that'll be going out over the weekend. Should be exciting. And
anyone that wants to email questions for Paul or Joel Heinick, just email me
at podcast I'm sorry Martin at podcast UFO dot com. I'd be glad to
post some questions. I already have some questions. I posted something on Facebook
and so that will be a lot of fun. So that's coming up.
My guest night is repeat guests and good friend Peter Robbins. He will be
on right after with Ryan and he's going to join me to talk with Ryan
about his UFO encounter. Thanks so much to everyone that supports a show that's
always very appreciated, and also each and every listener out there is important and
thanks for checking out the show and listening. And we have a lot of
exciting shows coming up and I'll talk about that later on at the end of
the show. And Alejandro, welcome to the show and thank you. Hello,
thank you. We had a little tough start here and no problemo.
Yeah, hey, you don't have your background today. I have a different
background, just a black Yeah. I like him. So yeah, there's
a number of man and black right there. Yes, yeah, keeping it
simple, right right, So what's what's happening in the UFO world? This
this lest to happen end. So there's a lot of discussion around the television
show Project blue Book. And the reason I bring it up because I think
one of the most important discussions that happened is in the Air Force Times.
So this is a great article and essentially it's funny that you know, they're
reviewing Blue Book and talking about, of course, the Air Force and their
involvement with UFO research. So they talk about blue Book, they talk about
how it is based on reality, but mid story they say the series diverges
from historical fact when Heineck begins to suspect that he has been duped by the
government into a conspiracy to cover up the truth. That are kind of saying,
you know, that didn't really happen. However, they do, interestingly
enough, go into how if Heineck did feel that way he would be justified
in feeling that way because they actually go into some of Heineck's work and how
the Air Force was kind of you know, his problems that he had with
the Air Force. Then interesting enough, the story goes into to say that,
you know, Project Bluebook closed, they didn't really find much, and
they use this quote that you can find on the Air Force page. It
says, since the termination of Project Bluebook, nothing has occurred that was support
a resumption of UFO investigations by the Air Force. Some of us are very
familiar with that term. But they do go on to say it has been
recently revealed that the Pentagon did acknowledge it did have a UFO program. They
referenced that New York Times article and they say it ran from two thousand and
seven to twenty twelve. And what they say is that it's suspected that this
program still goes on to this day. So it's a thorough, you know
article. And do you think it's a you think it's informative without being you
know, like acting Smith Fringy subject. I don't think so. I think
it is. In fact, the way that it ends is the existence of
these programs doesn't necessarily mean that UFOs are extraterrestural in nature, but they do
show that the government takes unidentified aerial objects seriously, perhaps worried about the ever
growing capabilities of near peer adversaries or far so, which I think is honest,
you know that, And that's which is different though it kind of this
was not the sort of statement we had been getting prior to Alisando coming out.
Prior to that, it was more dismissive. So for them to say
this, I think it's really important and a significant change in tactic, and
that they're saying, Okay, yeah, UFOs are important, you know,
and explain things. We need to look into them because of what they could
potentially be, which is exactly what UFO researchers have been saying and many have
been saying for a long time. And we know they look into these things,
but they deny looking into them at all, which is just was a
ridiculous stance to take, and it was a stance that they took for decades.
So I think this change is helpful. And I also want to say,
you know, there's been a lot of back and forth and in the
UFO community, not surprisingly because the UFO community is one of the most cynical
and negative communities I think out there. I don't know if it takes to
call yourself a UFO research you have to have a grumpy, bad attitude or
something like that, or one readily available. Before I move into that,
I just want to ask this one question. Where can someone find that article?
It's the Air Force Times, Air Force Times, thank you, Yeah,
And of course you can find that on open Minds and our Open mind
UFO group forum or I think I've got this one on our front page,
but if not, I will soon. But the other there is another Bluebook
article, and this one is about the first episode, which is a nineteen
forty eight dog fight that the first episode was representing. And here's my point
is that culturally, here's the significance of this show. And I did on
my Dent of Geek review of the show, I even wrote this that regardless
of how accurate the show is, the end result, the big result that
I think is helpful is that people are paying attention to real cases and that
this project Bluebook existed at a level that we never had. There was no
reason for the general public to get involved with knowing any of this, and
now there is. And so here's a story from a local paper that is
writing, the Bismarck Tribune, writing about, Hey, this first episode of
this television show covered a UFO case from our area, and then they review
this remarkable case. What is a great case? So I think we're just
going to see more and more of that as a week's goo by and cases
are covered, more local papers writing, hey, this TV show covered us,
and then there'll be more information getting out about these great cases. And
I think what people are forgetting and I haven't seen this referenced in not one
critique article that was critical of the show. I think it's fair that you've
got to mention that the History Channel is posting some great articles that are going
over these real cases. And I think that that is something they didn't have
to do and no one else has ever done before. So I think these
are you know, maybe I'm being a Pollyanna, which I don't mind my
role being looking at the positive, but I think there's a lot of positive
effects here that are going to result from this show. For people of us
interested in this field. Well, I don't know about you, but if
I watch something and I'm really interested in it, and it says based on
a true story. The first thing I do after I watch it is I
go in our research that story so exactly this is just what I do.
You know, I like to know what exactly really did happen. And I'm
in the same way, will do that too. Yeah, And you know,
I assume that the show is going to be way off from history,
and that's why I want to look at the real history because usually they are.
It's not often that they stick really close to the facts because it's that's
just extremely difficult to do when you're fictionalizing something. For drama to be interesting
to people, you've got to kind of encapsulate, you know, ideas and
concepts, and which is what they've done with the show. And I still
do like the show. I understand people's concerns. But yeah, so that's
Project book news. Since he said it himself live on my show, I'm
going to repeat what mc maloney said. He said, I'm not going to
watch that, and I said why And he says, you said, you
know, they add theatrical elements to it. He says, Nah, it's
not for me. He says, aren't UFOs enough, you know, isn't
it enough the way it is, they don't have to add anything to it.
And but I you know, that was mc maloney's comment on the whole
thing. But I thought, he's he's going to watch it like you know,
do some closet watching. Yeah, I like the rest of us.
Yeah, another story that is really getting out there, which is great.
And of course you had him, Calvin Parker on your show is it Pascagoula
case? And in an Alabama paper this is out of Mobile, Alabama.
Fox out of Mobile has done this special on Pascagoula. Of course that happened
in Mississippi. But they've got this special that I haven't watched it, but
they have an article that accompanies it. And I guess it's nearly an hour
long. H the one I watched. Now, I probably watched a shorter
version of it. It was it wasn't really that long. I can't remember
exactly how long, but it was very well done. Actually, I was
really impressed, and there was you know, it's I love Calvin and um,
I can't wait to eat him at your conference this year. And he's
very believable. He is, and I think that he's kind of like a
Walton Travis Walton, who had, you know, alleged alien experiences, but
he's a very grounded, down to earth person and talking to Travis to me
is one of the things you can do that will convince you the most.
And Calvin is like that also, just a very grounded person. And it's
shocking and it must be his personality to see all of these news outlets who
are writing about this case taking it seriously and not really making fun of it,
which is surprising because it's a really wild thing that they described it happening.
So it's it's nice to see this this positive news that's out there.
Yeah, and I just can't see I can't see Calvin making any of that
up. And for the people you know that have not listened to that shore
or know much about the case. Basically, they were fishing and then this
blue light came down and these beings, i think three beings floated toward them
and as soon as they touched one of them touched him, two grabbed Hickson.
But as soon as they touched Calvin, he said he felt, you
know, completely relaxed, and he said he basically levitated back to the ship.
And you know, they did experiments on him not you know, evasive
experiments, but and then basically let him go. We floated back and there
he was and didn't want to talk about it. And the best thing I
think of that whole entire case is when they snucked the tape recording into the
police. The police snucked the tape recording into the room when they didn't know
anyone was there, and you know, they were recording how scared they were
about the whole situation, and then they passed by the detector tests. You
know, It's great. I think another credit build part of this is that
Calvin took off. He didn't want spot, he didn't want attention, and
he literally left town and was gone and didn't speak about this for decades until
just recently. And I think that LEDs to the credibility as well. And
I was not to try to sound like I'm bragging, but I was basically
the first person to dig him up for many years and had him on my
show and got him connected to Phil Mantle to write the book and all that
stuff, so that really I was really glad to really really, I guess
I didn't realize that timeline I got Phil had met him first. No,
no, I connected the two together. So anyway, it was really I
was grateful that I was able to do that, and well done Martin.
So this whole news kind of fury that's going on with him, this whole
all these stories are largely you're the one who made this all happen. Well,
I helped with a little about it probably would have happened anyway, but
I appreciate that. Maybe a good job. Yeah, So one other story
I want to talk about real quick here. I just think this is a
neat one, this story going around why our galaxy probably isn't full of alien
civilizations they could have been killed off by climate change. But I think it's
an interesting thought in that, you know, if there are many many intelligent
civilizations out there, which seems to make sense that there would be in the
statistics show that that would be the case, then it could be also the
case that many of these have come and gone, possibly some like this from
natural or natural occurrences, some maybe by destroying themselves, and you know,
who knows a number of other ideas. So I think it's kind of neat
to speculate about these sort of things, and who knows, will we be
killed off by climate change, or will we kill ourselves off? Or will
we make it into some grand future of enlightenment. I would like to hope
for the last, the latter, but fear for the prior. One of
the prior. Yeah, yeah, exactly, I fear too. And anyway,
hopefully we'll catch it before it's too late. Thanks so much, Alejandro.
Nice talking to you, and we'll be talking next week. My pleasure
to talk to you next week. All right, okay, take care,
all right, everyone, So our guest and we only have five minutes.
I'll break at this point. Our guest is Peter Robbins. Peter, welcome
to the show. Thanks. It's great to be back on with you,
Martin. Always always great to be back talking with you. And let's see,
so I want to also bring in Peter. We'll talk further about what's
going on with you and what we're going to be talking about. Some interesting
things, James forrestal of course, and also you're a good friend fellow artist
Bud Hopkins. We're gonna be talking about that for now. I'm going to
bring in our local guest, Ryan mcclashing. Ryan, welcome to the show.
Thank you very much, glad to be here. Yeah, yeah,
I have to keep looking this way to see you. But anyway, Peter,
so I talked to you briefly ahead of the show. I met and
Ryan locally here in a bagel shop. So, Ryan, I would love
for you to tell the first of all, the setting first, and tell
us your story how that all happened. All right. So it was on
October second, twenty and sixteen. I had been working in the Greater Moosehead
Lake region of Maine, and at the time I was working on hiking trails.
I had some friends who had a camp very close to where I was
staying, and two of my very good friends came up to see me and
to spend some time there. And on that evening of the second, we
had been having just a fantastic day. We were walking back to the cabin
that I was staying at, which was about a quarter mile maybe a third
of a mile away from his family's place. And it's six miles down a
dirt road, about seven or eight from a town of about a thousand people,
so pretty far out there. And as we were walking up this hill,
we were all side by side, and I had a headlamp on,
and we saw this light coming almost at us, but kind of diagonally towards
us through the woods. And it's an older growth forest, so it's pretty
open and definitely a mixed mixed wood species. And as it was coming towards
us, we all turned to it. And what I saw and what they
saw was three three different things but some similarities within it. I saw what
I believed to be a woman in all white in a white robe, floating,
and my other friend thought they saw a man in all white floating with
that he had a light with him. And then the other friend doesn't remember
what he's saw. But when I experienced in that moment was I felt drawn
to it as if I couldn't not turn towards it, and so can I
just yeah, please, when you when this was floating at you, at
first you thought it was a light. Now this was above you and floating
towards you. Yeah, it was almost as if we were walking towards it.
But it was coming into a bit of a different direct trajectory through the
woods, so it wasn't directly at us, but it was going to almost
transact our position in a sense. But but you were saying that there were
three lights, but you see, but you saw one figure out a piece
for three lights. There was there was one, there was one. I
was saying there was three of us and uh and the one the one light.
But it it came, and it got hard to describe. It almost
like indeffinitely bright in such a fast time period that I felt myself lose control
of my body and I just felt myself dropped to my knees as my arms
went limp and I lost consciousness in that time period, and it felt like
everything in my body and my life's stopped. And then I was hit with
so much positivity from whatever this experience was. And then I came to and
I was in my kitchen at my camp that was down the road. Were
you like on the floor, I was, I was. I was not
on the floor, I was standing. And my two friends explained to me
that from what they believed is that we walk back. So neither one of
them claims to have fully lost consciousness, yet all three of us have different
recollections of what even where it happened. After was the discussion, So Peter,
you can jump in if you want to ask any questions. Yeah,
Ryan, first, I'm very moved by this. You're obviously doing your best
to relate to us in the audience a genuine, extraordinary experience that you truly
had and your friends did as well. And I think that takes a certain
amount of courage and I appreciate it. You remind me, and I've been
involved in paranormal studies for over forty years, that if I ever lose the
sensibility or the ability to respond to something like this from a person, I
think I should leave this field. About what time did this occur? And
was it already dark? Yeah? It was, it was dark. The
last reference that I had for a time was around seven fifteen or seven thirty,
okay? And when did this occur exactly? Um, you're saying the
exact time that happened or no, I am about you know, a week,
two weeks, a month ago? You're yes, this was October sixth,
October second, twenty sixteen, okay, And um, obviously you had
never had an experience like this before. I'm no, okay and never since?
Nope. So about how I'm sorry, We're gonna have to we're gonna
have to break it there and uh, and we're gonna I just made a
note, Peter of what you asked and we'll come back to that. Yeah,
So thank you Ryan, thank you all right, And so this is
Martin Willis. I have an in studio guest Ryan mcglashin and Peter Robbins as
a guest and the podcast UFO. We'll be back right after these messages.
Wow, sorry for the delay. All right. So now we're on YouTube
only and uh so we have I hope I'm not keeping you too long by
okay, So we have three minutes to go here on YouTube only. So,
um, Peter, you're welcome or I'm gonna ask him a different question
and we'll go back to work your your option after the break. And so
you're saying that your other friends had different experiences, can you explain what each
of them? Basically, if you sat down had a beer with your buddies,
how would they describe what happened? Um, very briefly. And they're
not as comfortable as I am to even talk about it. I think that
there's a bit to it where they're both proud, big, strong, independent
men, and the fact that happened they don't have the control. Yeah,
they don't have the words to describe it. And I've tried to talk to
them about it. But it's just like, you know, it's not it's
not a it's not so much of a talking point more as it's like we
should not talk about it. Yeah, yeah, they change the subject or
something, or not even so much change the subjects. It's just I just
know I know them well enough that it's it's we talked about it so much
in that in that night and after it just it seemed like we couldn't make
sense of much of anything. But yet it was so we couldn't sleep,
you know, we didn't want to be outside, but we didn't really know
what to do. I think for so you've had an adrenaline dump and dump,
there's an aspect of physiological shock. It is a classic guy reaction,
not that it doesn't happen to women, but it's a classic guy thing.
Some of us are less armored or you know, to be sound, new,
aging, more in touch with our feelings, less anxious about expressing them
or feeling them. But your heart has to go out to these guys because
this represents everything that makes you uncomfortable, that you can't control, that stops
at the end of what is finite, definable. I only wish him the
best, but don't push h Yeah. So yeah, they're basically at the
end of wanting to talk about it, obviously. And had you ever considered
regression? Yes, I have, yeah, yeah, And what do you
think about that? Are you scared to do that? Of course? Yeah.
Yeah. It's a really terrifying period of my life. Everything that I
felt is that I knew and had experience. I have goosebumps right now just
thinking about it. It was you know, you, you believe, you
question, you want to try to understand better, and then something happens and
it's like a fresh it's the new it's a new, fresh canvas. It's
like, Wow, what's going on? I can't even was down when you're
ready? Oh, we have one minute left. I'm sorry, go ahead.
Yeah. I can't even tell you how many times I've heard variations on
people say those things that what you just said to me, or that I
have said it regarding the experience that I had when I was a kid growing
up on Long Island and had the profound UFO sighting with my sister that ultimately
changed my life, right right, Yeah, Peter, We've talked about that,
and that's pretty amazing. And I if I remember correctly, Peter,
did your sister block that out No, she never forgot it. I'm the
one that blocked it out right totally for more than fourteen years. We're ready
to get started here, okay, so feel free to break into the conversation.
Countess down, Yes, all right, anyone, welcome back. This
is Martin Willis and I Martin Willis. I have my guests, Peter Robbins
repeat guests of course, and Ryan mclashing and we're talking about Ryan's experience he
had in the deep woods of Maine, up near the largest lake in Maine.
It's a big, huge lake and a lot of wilderness and a lot
of strange things. The things have happened up there, including the Alagash in
send It not too far from there. Have you looked into when this happened?
Ryan? And I know Peter you were talking before we went into the
break and asking about when it happened. We'll get back to that. But
when this happened, what did you think happened? Did you? Did you
try to research what happened? I did. I did try to research it,
but I I I felt like I was contacted by some being of a
higher power, and that's all I could come to terms with. This is
part of the very difficult, um, a bit of trying to talk to
my two friends and experiences what They didn't know what happened, but when you
said, did you say those words to them? And they freaked them out.
My friend when we were in back at my place and where I regained
consciousness, and he said that we need to go back to the camp and
I need to grab a gun to harm myself. And I just looked at
him and laughed like I was. I was crying at the time too.
I was overwhelmed. I was like, it's not even a thought you should
have right now, Like whatever that was, there's no, there's not a
gun out there that's gonna protect you. All right, Well said and Ryan.
You were asking about when this happened, and I think he kind of
addressed it was our sixteen or yea, the second of two thous No,
that's understood now. Um. You had mentioned when we were off the air,
but on YouTube continuing a conversation that your conscious memory is there was a
feeling of certainly a positive feeling overwhelmed you. You weren't terrified in your conscious
mind. Yeah, when I turned towards the being in the light. It
it hit me with so much positive energy that I felt like that was what
made me lose consciousness. Yeah, and I came too, and I was
crying, both with being scared but also with like happiness and confusion. Yeah,
it was. I honestly felt like I was killed and reborn in an
instant. It just yea in your choice of words, is very affecting,
and again I think spot on your best to describe an indescribable situation. However,
also mentioning off the air, when Martin asked you if you've considered regressive
hypnosis to relive or confront the situation that does make you anxious, that there
is a feeling of maybe this wasn't a fun event on a certain level,
and that what I remember, what I experienced was what we would call a
screen memory, and there is something behind it that could provoke tremendous anxiety.
Mildly, Yeah, I feel pretty anxious right now thinking about it. Well,
respect that over many years that I work with Budd Hopkins, who pioneered
the use of regressive hypnosis to a great degree, extensively with people who had
had abduction and experience or related events. His first advice in terms of them
considering it is, are you sure even if you feel consciously you want to
know what went on? You want to relive it very laudatory. You may
be brought phase to phase with a terrifying experience or something that will make you
sad or blast the positive memory that you think you have of this event.
So this is not a time sensitive matter. You can decide to do it
years from now. I waited several years to undergo regressive hypnosis for my UFO
sighting that I had had with my sister who had an abduction experience as part
of that sighting. My concern, my curiosity was it did this happened to
me too? When I did it, I was ready for it, and
I did three separate hypnotic regressions over a year or two with three different individuals.
But that was my choice on my time. I should also say that
the memory that I had was the memory that was confirmed, and nothing has
rattled anything else loose, even though I've been deeply involved in this field for
decades, so I'm fairly confident that that was it for me. But respect
your feelings, I guess is what I'm saying, and you can come back
to this at another time. It is rough in a way that the people
that you had the experience with are as reticent as they are. Got to
cut them slack, perfectly natural reaction for some folks at least, that's something
better, I think, on a certain level than having had the experience all
by yourself where it didn't it. That kind of feeling doesn't help, right,
Ryan, I know you have to go, So just one one quick
question, last question. Do you feel as though you had any missing time
in the whole event? Yeah, definitely, yep. Yeah. The last
time that I looked at the time source, i'd say seven fifteen or seven
thirty. I remember it being well before eight, and then when I gained
consciousness it was closer to eight thirty. I want to say, it was
like eight twenty three. Yeah, well that's that makes it even more interesting.
Well, hey, Ryan, thank you so much. I appreciate Yes,
thank you very much driving out here. Yes, no, and Ryan,
thank you very much also. And I think I speak for many of
Martin's listeners. It takes courage to share these events, and you know,
bless your heart and good luck and all things in the future. Thank you
very much. If you folks want to bring me on again and ask me
more questions about it than I'd been more than happy to do that. Yeah,
if you if you have a point, and I've never would ever push
you for this, but if you do have a point where you do the
hypnotherapy and you find out more about it and you want to talk about it,
you're welcome back on. Yeah, thank you very much, Thank you,
gentlemen. Thank you. All right, So now I'm bad. So
that was interesting, huh, Peter, very much so. Yeah, and
just a local guy that he saw a UFO hat in a bagel shop,
and that's how a conversation has in absolutely nothing to gain by going public with
this, even in the private way that he did. So I salute the
everyday courage of everybody that has ever crossed that line and said, you know
what, I'm not going to keep this to myself, even if I'm going
to protect my identity in the course of it. I need to share this
or I think I should share it. Yeah. Yeah. The last time
I had a situation like that happened, it was a woman casually talking about,
oh, I know where you live Sebago. Main this is when I
was living in Sebago and she said, yeah, I had a UFO experience
there And I said, what what did you just say? And she was
going to be on the show, but left me high and dry. She
never never picked up her phone. So I understand, I understand, and
I don't hold that against people. And as a matter of fact, I
wrote Ryan this morning, I said, hey, you know, can you
confirm you're going to be here? You know, because a lot of times
people get cold feet, they get nervous. Actually talked about it for the
first time publicly. So Peter, we are going to be touching on a
couple of things, and one of them is a Forestall. I know you
have an interest in that in James Forrestall, and I know he was the
first Secretary Secretary of Defense. I believe that well. His name has been
associated with the subject indirectly since Roswell research began in the nineteen eighties, led
by Stanton T. Friedman. Forestall himself was an extraordinary man whose life is
very much worth studying, and whose death allegedly by his own hand. We
history records that he killed himself on May twenty second of nineteen forty nine,
and that's what the public buys, generally speaking. I first became interested in
him to the point of obsession for quite a long time in nineteen eighty seven,
because that summer was when the so called Majestic twelve Eisenhower Briefing document became
public. It was, as I know, you know and many of your
listeners I'm sure, a eight page document from allegedly from nineteen fifty two purporting
to be a briefing document to President elect Eisenhower informing him of the formation of
a special highly classified study group in ten forty seven following immediately following on the
Roswell crash MJ twelve. The twelve refers to the number of individuals that were
involved in that first wave of this study group, and one of them was
James Forrestall the damage that can be done to a person's life, who has
the courage to come forward in this case, Major Jesse Marcel Senior, who
at the time of the events in the summer of forty seven was the base
intelligence officer on the old Roswell armi Are Base, who was the one who
the base commander authorized to release the statement that a flying saucer to use a
then terminology had crashed, which he did General Blanchard, which Blanchard was a
tough, no nonsense veteran of World War Two, like Marcell himself, who
was a pilot who had been shot down during the war, ended up as
a pow. The one thing that Blanchard didn't do before authorizing Marcel to make
that world shaking announcement was clear it with the Pentagon, which for me is
one of those great moments in American history. Unfortunately, within twenty four hours,
the big shots went ballistic and of course got in Blanchard's face, who
ordered Marcel basically humiliated himself in front of the world, something I don't think
he ever really recovered from, and to pose with fragments of a mobile weather
balloon and say that this was what he mistook for a giant, honking debris
field filled with extraordinary metal and bodies of a number of non human beings and
allegedly one living one. With that as brief backstory, there is an actor
who briefly plays the part of James Forrestall on a quick visit to New Mexico,
looking through a glass partition at this non human being, registering a look
of tremendous concern and giving rise to the idea that the stress was too much
for him. It was a brief appearance, but that's where a certain amount
of the UFO related mythology legend, so to say, Forrestall's involvement, what
happened with me was in eighty seven, there was a very important UFO Congress.
It was eighty seven. It was that summer fortieth anniversary of Roswell Kenneth
Arnold Modern Age UFO sidings, and it was held at American University in Washington,
DC. The speaker who had the biggest impact on me was Stan T.
Friedman. Stan gave as good a research paper as I've ever heard on
anything in my entire life, and it was a real factor in my deciding
to commit myself professionally to this work and move into what will laughingly call my
serious career in uphology. It was called the Secret Life of Donald K.
Menzel. Again, as many of your listeners know, Menzel was a He
was essentially Professor emeritus of astronomy. They hit astronomer at Harvard, and as
such had huge standing in both the astronomical community and in the academic community.
What Stan was able to do, and nobody had done it before, was
get permission from Harvard to see all of his papers there, to get permission
from his widow to see papers that she personally held, and to get permission
to go through all of his records in the National Archives. And what stand
proved beyond any reasonable doubt was this man lived a double life. He was
an asset of the national security community in the United States and the first UFO
debunker, and he did tremendous damage to the truth. He was, so
to say, the godfather of Philip Class, the person most Americans who are
knowledgeable about the subject of UFOs associate with debunking. And to cut to the
chase, I had received a copy of MJ twelve some months before, making
me feel quite like an insider from somebody whose name I won't mention right now.
But that summer at all broke and it was as big a topic of
conversation at that conference as anything, and I decided that I was going to
do a research project of one of these twelve individuals, all of them tops
in their field, ind Jules, who certainly would have been considered to be
surrounding the President of the United States, to try to figure what the hell
to do relative to this incursion from parts on known. I had it down
to several people, including Forrestall and Vanavar Bush for me as somebody who is
endlessly fascinating in the late forties, if you were to pick up a copy
of Who's Who, Bush's honorariums and degrees and titles and business in the scientific
community were mind blowing two and a half pages worth. He had been Franklin
roosevelt science and technology advisor than Truman's. He was the man who brief Truman
on the Manhattan Project the day that Roosevelt died. He was he was a
nominal character. And I remember shortly after the conference sitting down with my parents,
both very politically aware of people, asking them if they had a take
on which way I should go with this. It was going to take considerable
time and work. And my mom said to Forestall, I said, okay,
why, she said, you have no idea how important he was to
us during World War Two, the impact, the positive impact he had on
our winning the war. He was absolutely charismatic from the early forties until he
died. Next to Truman. His name was in the paper more than anyone,
and he had tremendous courage. And then she said he is also very
handsome, very charismatic, and his high school girl had a crush on him.
And I thought, well, that's that. And I started to research
his life and equally important, his death, and started to draw parallels and
then put on a very strict timeline, and it became the most accomplished research
project I had ever taken on. I'm still very proud of the work of
the initial findings that I had, and I kept at it kept coming and
going. I didn't give a talk on it until two thousand and four,
but every few years I kept picking it up again, and that happened about
two years ago, and I've continued to fill in blanks to tighten my presentations
and articles on the subject, and have actually, as of last year,
taken a step outside of all of the presentations I've done over the decades.
I have a love of theater. I've had it since I was a kid.
I had the privilege of working off Broadway for quite a number of years
as a manager of one of New York City's finest repertory companies, work with
Academy Award winners and Tony Award winners studied acting for years. Although I've never
wanted to be an actor, I love the craft and love people learning it.
And what I did was create a staged to act dramatic reading of the
life and death of James Forrestall on stage with a company by about one hundred
and fifty images that flash behind me as I speak with an intermission. I've
workshopped a little bit and I'm at a point right now of Okay, this
is good. I can tie this up, and it gives me access to
an audience that normally would not be interested in going to a quote unquote UFO
lecture what I'm toying with right now, and I have a person in mind
to approach to be a collaborator on this. I've never written a play,
and I'm very uncomfortable in a way with taking all of the factual material and
extrapolating on it, creating dialogue rather even if it's dialogue that I think might
have been said, and creating a drama in two acts. That would be
one person play, and the only way I could manage it, after a
lot of consideration, would be not that I would be taking part in it,
other than as the writer and certainly helping the director, etc. But
it would be written for a professional actor, and the actor would be playing
James forrestall after he's dead. Looking back, having just said that alone,
I think you realize this is quite a challenge and something I will or won't
do. I'm kind of a negotiation right now about it, and we'll see
how it goes. It's again, I started my life as a painter.
I'm a creative person. I've always tried to apply that creativity to doing quality,
well informed presidenttions and articles, and this would just be taking it one
step beyond as far as I'm concerned. Well, really interesting now, I
know. You know, whenever James Forrestell comes up, there's questions on whether
he was pushed out the window, whether he jumped out the window. I
understand, you know, he suffered from depression, and as far as I
know, I have that right. Yes, I feel certainly a contributing aspect
of that depression, which was observed not just by people who cared about him,
but in several cases by people who did not care about him, but
commented in their memoirs or their diaries, etc. Go back to the summer
autumn, well, the autumn of nineteen forty nine, he was sworn in
as our first Secretary of Defense, after having created the Department of Defense,
not as part of a committee. After the war, Harry Truman, so
impressed with how he had run the Department of Navy, and he ended up
being a Secretary of Navy by the end of the war, asked Forrestall individually
to dismantle the old War Department, because that's what we called it since the
Revolution, and create this new thing, a modern Department of Defense, which
he did. He was sworn in as Defense Secretary six and a half weeks
or so after Roswell. If you read the job description of the department of
the Secretary of Defense, he is next to the president. He knows everything,
and in those weeks that would have followed his being sworn in, he
would have learned everything that had happened in the previous month and a half,
it would have all been on his shoulders. He is now in charge of
the greatest military conglomerate ever on earth that we know about for sure, and
yet nothing that he could do or order affected what had happened. I am
here to tell you, and I don't usually do this. I'm not somebody
who tosses out absolutes, but years and years and years of research have convinced
me beyond any reasonable doubt that not only was he murdered, he understood once
he had had his breakdown, and he did have a profound nervous breakdown,
it manifested itself on March seventeenth of nineteen forty nine, the afternoon that he
stepped down from office. Having worked in crisis intervention for years, to be
blunt in New York City, on the busiest suicide hotline in America, I
know a fair amount about that dynamic mix of the intense depression that leads to
somebody being so low in their heart and soul that ending their life is preferable
to keep living. He understood better than anybody that once he had had this
breakdown, that there were individuals, very powerful individuals, arrayed around Harry Truman,
who knew that this man had to die. They couldn't risk him having
a relapse. And again, this is nineteen forty nine, not twenty nineteen.
In nineteen forty nine, I think it's fair to say, let's say,
one person in a hundred in America knew somebody who might have seen a
psychiatrist. Maybe now one person in a hundred in America, one person in
five hundred in America knows somebody who doesn't know somebody who has seen a therapist
or a psychiatrist or something. This man and he understood it. And I
sadly was able to document several times in those intervening days before he was institutionalized,
but as a naval hospital where he did try to kill himself like a
good Roman soldier, throw himself on his sword, but they stopped him.
He went into therapy and started to recover and then had to die. And
he did not go out that window willingly. There's no question about that.
Okay, well we have to stop right now and we're going to all right,
that's it for the free part of the show. Thank you so much
for listening, and if you can remember to check out this show coming up
on Friday at one pm Eastern Standard time, and that is going to be
with Joel and Paul Heineck Jay Allan Heineck's two Sons, and that's a live
stream show and if you that also goes out to the podcast for subscribers.
It's a bonus show for them. It'll be going out over the weekend,
so anyway you can find that on YouTube. If you cannot support the show,
that show will be up on YouTube after this Friday. So next week
we have Vincent Ariello and he is a fighter pilot. He has a fighter
pilot podcast. We're gonna be talking UFOs and also Tyler Rogue Away, so
it's an aviation based He is the war Zone the Drive. He's a blogger
and also a pilot and we're gonna be talking to them both. And thanks
so much everyone, and remember to keep your eyes to the sky.