Welcome. We Ain't afraid of no ghosts. This is your number one podcast
for googlies and ghosties and long legged beasties, bringing you everything you need to
know about things that go plump in the night and interviewing the personalities behind us.
Make sure your doors and windows are locked. Now Here are your hosts,
your ghost hosts, Scott and Julie. Hello, and welcome to the
Paranormal Project. Julie how Area Boo. Scott. My favorite topic ghost hunting
tonight, So yes it is. And yes, but our guest tonight,
there's a lot going on. In fact, I was saying to him before
the show, I wasn't sure how we were going to get it all in.
So we're going to talk about ghosts, We're gonna talk about naked people
and ghosts, and if you've never had that conversation before, tonight's the night.
Clearly this PG we can hit our But that's about it for me.
Clearly he's never investigated with our group because I tell you things more scary than
apparitions, and I think glad they tell you bring the bleach for your eyes.
So I'd like to welcome Ross Allison to the show. Hi, Ross,
how you do it. I don't want to wait any long. Good
hello you lecture on ghost hunting, right, I do? I do.
I've been doing it for gosh going on twenty years now. Now that's to
the call our university or university colleges. I've done for a lot of events
overseas as well, from Scotland, um to Canada. So yeah, I've
been all over the place. Wow, that's that's a good gig to get,
huh, especially you know something you love and do you get a lot
of interest in that when when you there are a lot of people that are
fascinated in it enough to Yeah, that was you know, it's funny because
I've been you know, ghost hunting before it was popular, before the ghost
hunting shows and um it's a thing where now you can come out of the
closet never be loved you for being a ghost hunter. But back then,
oh gosh, you didn't tell people you were a ghost on your you know
yea it were were I remember those days. So yeah, it was pretty
funny. Absolutely, yes. You know back then, you know, if
you were going a ghost hunt, you were probably breaking into a building or
something because it was nothing available to you know, it wasn't like, we
have places you can go to. I mean, I wasn't breaking into places.
I'll be honest about that. I was lucky enough that, you know,
in the Northwest, there wasn't any ghostening groups when I started out,
so I was the first and there was a need for it. No one
had anybody to reach out to if they were experiencing any paranormal phenomena. So
where I expected I'd be hitting all these you know, public places and you
know, try to document what they claimed to be haunted. I actually,
as soon as I launched a ghost the events ghost Centers of Seattle, Tacoma,
we were flooded with you know clients, you know, private homes that
wanted us to come out and investigate the phenomena that they were experiencing. So
that pretty much kept me busy for the longest time. That's great. Do
you still get a lot of that where you are? It's not as much
as we used to get. Um, I think a lot of there's a
lot of other outlets. It's you know, as you guys probably experience,
it's become very competitive now where I when I started a ghost we were one
out of a hundred nationally now each state could easily have a hundred plus groups
easily. You know, that's how crazy it is out there. Yeah.
Yeah, that's a whole other topic we can get into right exactly. Although
I have to say, honestly, home investigations are my favorite. Like you
say, they've really dwindled now, but I mean, I've been doing this
for fifteen years and Tye, I love digging my teeth into a really good
home investigation. You know, when you when you go to these places that
you pay to go to investigate, you kind of have an idea of what's
going on there. Home investigation. That's exactly what it is is. It
is an investigation you're starting from, starting with the bare bones abolutely and figuring
it out. Yeah, there's a thing as you have more opportunities when it
comes from investigating a private home rather than a business, you're pretty limited,
and especially if it's a business, you're pursuing it, they're not pursuing you.
So sometimes you just have your one shot deal to get in there and
see what's happening. Compared to a clients, hopefully you'll have multiple opportunities,
because as we were talking about, it's all about being in the right place,
at the right time. Just because I come in one night doesn't mean
I'm going to get any evidence to support the fact that there could be something
to happen in their home. There are twenty four to seven We're just coming
in, you know, for you know, six plus hours. So to
have the opportunities to go back and hopefully collect more evidence helps us to determine
what could be happening in these homes. Right, that's it. They don't
perform on command. You know what it is and all sorry, I know,
and I'm sure you've encountered this is that once we do go in and
start the initial investigation, a lot of times the activity will ramp up,
and which is kind of what we want anyway, but you know, to
the chagrin of the homeowner things, No, it's it's It is a unique
opportunity when you can actually get more involved with clients rather than just pursuing a
place that's popular for being haunted. Absolutely, yes, absolutely, all right,
can we talk about naked people? Because I really want to know.
I want to know he's just been he's charring at the bit. He really
needs to not understand this. Well. I would love to talk about naked
people. Definitely fascinated by what you've got going on. I really am.
And I did get a chance to see your you know, your videos earlier,
but sha share a little bit about what you're doing. So. Parasense
is a documentary that just launched earlier this year. UM. It was actually
um a big success for US. UM. It just now was launched in
the UK as well, UM and it is known as parasens and Naked Experiments.
To surprise, I found that I'm the first in history to try and
validate touch when it comes to a spirit trying to touch the physical body.
And I know we've all heard of very similar cases. You may have experienced
it yourself, whether it's a tap on the shoulder some people said, you
know, kiss on the cheek, or being embraced, or even the negative
aspects of being scratched or pushed. When people have those experiences, it's really
just a personal experience for you that experienced it, and we just have to
take people's word for it. You know, when you say I felt somebody
tapped me on the shoulder, how do you prove that you really can't?
And so what happened was it was about going on seven years ago now,
a young man had reached out to me from Northport, Washington. He was
doing some work, some construction work on an old brothel and it was an
abandoned space upstairs. He was there alone when he felt something grope him.
And so this was nothing unusual. I've heard you know, similar stories or
you know, like I said, you know, just being touched. And
it really got me thinking, it's just like, you know, how would
you validate such a personal encounter? You know, how do we make these
experiences that people have and bring some truth to them, not saying that they're
lying about their experience. They obviously felt something, but how do we make
it more valid for the observer as well? And I just got to thinking,
as like, is there some experiments out there that have been done?
And I researched for, you know, months and months trying to come up
with ideas, and I couldn't find anything to at least start from. And
that's when I realized, no one's ever done this before. And I was
surprised by that. With all these other you know, outlets of people trying
to research EVP and Light's phenomena and all this other stuff, no one's ever
tried to prove touch. So I took it on myself. I said,
okay, let's see if we can try and validate what's happening when somebody's having
these experiences. So people have always asked me, well, why nudity,
you know, and I really got to think, and it's like, well,
if you're trying to validate touch, you need to see what's happening to
the physical body itself. What's happening to the skin, what's happening to the
muscles, Is there a temperature difference? You need to see all that stuff.
If somebody is wearing a shirt and they said, oh, I felt
something tapped me on my back, it becomes contaminated evidence because anybody who's a
skeptic or even the scientific field is going to say could have been their shirt.
So you do have to eliminate those elements if you're really trying to validate
the research. So nudity just made sense. And I was lucky enough to
get a few young men that were willing to be alone in a haunted location,
and we had set up equipment and experiments around them and we would just
document these experiences. And it was about six years we had collected all this
stuff. I was getting some really great, you know, evidence, but
not enough that I felt like I could put it out to the public and
say here is proof. I needed something more, and so luckily I had
been on a podcast, community science podcast that was hosted by a gentleman known
as Chad Goodwin, and so I knew he was in the science field,
and I reached out to him. I said, you know, here's what
I'm doing. I'm doing these experiments and I just asked them the simple question,
how would you prove touch? And he was just like, wow,
there's all these things we could do, And so I invited him out one
weekend to observe what I was doing, and he was just very impressed with
what we were doing, and he took some of my concepts and expanded on
them. We created a sensor field that actually monitors three sixty around a subject,
so for the first time in history, we're now actually tracking phenomena so
we can actually see where it's coming from, where it's going, all that,
and we had some amazing results just by doing this. How can you
prove that it touches? You know, Let's just say here as an example,
how can you prove that with this device, Well, we're monitoring the
environment around a subject, so you can't physically prove right now, we're working
on some other ideas that we have, but what we can see, and
this is another big step in the scientific field. By tracking the phenomena around
a subject, we were able to track something coming towards the subject and then
leaving the subject at the exact same moments that they were touched. So right
there we are able to prove pattern. And that is one of the first
big steps that you need when you're trying to validate these experiences. Is there
a pattern to it? Yes, there is. Two times when subjects got
touched, something came out of nowhere, hit the subject and then immediately left,
and so that shows us that there's something happening. So when you're trying
to prove things, and this is one of the biggest problems that we have
in the paranormal field when it comes especially when it comes to a lot of
the telban shows is we need at least three points of data all right to
support something happened. Most ghost hunters they'll go in with an m detector and
say, oh, the MF detector is going off. It must be paranormal.
That's not enough. That proves nothing, and so you need other elements
to show that there's other things happening around that one point of an experience.
And so that's our main focus is the show that we have these multiple points
of data. We are saying, the subjects claiming they felt something at that
moment, the specter systems picking up something at that moment. We may have
even gotten an EVP at that moment. So those are the points of data
that we're trying to bring together the show that this is something beyond just that
one experience. Now can you rule it out? So in other words,
if someone feels that they were touched but you don't see something into the field,
do you eliminate that or well, you're trying to look for other elements
that could be outside the physical environments, because right now, the best we
can do as ghost hunters is we can read the environment and see if there's
changes to the environment that we can't explain. There's no device out there that
tells you you have a ghost in your presence. Nothing, there's not a
ghost meter it says there's a ghost standing right in front of you. All
we do is we read the environment and say, Okay, here's something odd
in the environment. We can't explain why is it there? At the moment,
you know, Julie felt that there was something standing next to her.
Okay, there's two points of data. That's great. Can we find something
else to validate that experience for her? And that's what we try to do,
and that's all we can do at this moment. We need more data,
right, we need to actually expand ourselves. And it's frustrating because here
we are going into almost twenty years of paranormal television and millions of dollars going
into these shows, but hardly nothing going into the research. No, because
I still think it's it's even you know, there's certain extremes of the TV
shows, but I still think it's not what people want. They want to
just they want to get that gatcha moment on camera. That's what people are
looking for when they watch these shows. But when those gotcha moments being more
important if you can actually have other points of data to validate that, right,
But I think they have to spend a lot more time in each location
in order to get that too, which is part of them and a lot
of you know, television shows don't want to do it, and a lot
of groups don't want to do it either. No, No, I think
we're getting to the point where it's a lot of lazy ghost hunting because people
want instant gratification while they're investigating and not have to do the work and going
back and watching fifteen hours of video or you know, fifteen hours of audio.
It's it's unfortunately, but that's what the television shows are teaching them as
well. Right, It's almost like you need a season on one location,
you do. I would think that would be a great idea. Yeah,
it's yeah, that's true. I was on home investigation and the homeowner's teenage
daughter she was seventeen, asked if she could sit with us, and basically
I said, as long as it's okay with your mom, it's you know,
it's fine with us. And so we were doing quiet time, and
because I find that's just the best way to investigate a lot of times,
using your senses and then you can back it up with you know, some
recordings or whatever. So you know, quiet time can last quite a long
time. And about half hour thirty five minutes into it, she was sitting
on the floor, and she just kind of went oh. And I looked
over at her and I said, it's not like the TV shows as a
honey, and she went, no, this is kind of boring. How
long are you're going to do this? And I said, well, at
least another hour, but you can leave if you want to. And that's
what ghost hunting is exactly. Antone is asking if you consider touch or pressure
senses by E. M. Field watch. We do have a huge list
of Yes, we're trying to expand and I can't say too much because you
know, again we're trying to publish our research and and stuff. But I
always thank you. I love great ideas, and that's what we should be
doing, is expressing these ideas. It's all trial and error. So,
yes, we are trying to expand different ways in sensors to the body itself
to see what the body is actually going through when those moments happen as well,
you know, So we are monitoring the body temperature, the heart rate,
we're even brainwave activity. Because one of the things that my good friend
Lloyd Arrobach he actually was involved in our project as well, and he is
a parasychologist and he had told me, you know that a lot of times
when people are failing the physical phenomena upon themselves, that they believe that they
project it onto themselves. So when it comes to psychic phenomena, is that
possible? Could you be projected the physical attack on yourself? And so yeah,
you have to again do what we're doing to try and validate that.
But we were able to prove that that wasn't the case in those two situations
where subjects got scratched because something came out of nowhere attack them and then left.
If you're projecting it onto yourself, then obviously you're off yourself and then
back onto yourself, so it'd be coming from you and then back to you.
So that was not the case. So this energy is coming from nowhere.
And another thing that we learned through this research as well is a lot
of the equipment that ghost hunters are dependent on is not fast enough or sensitive
enough to pick up the phenomena that we're looking for, and so there's a
lot of times we're pretty much missing out on experiences in data to validate these
experiences. That's really interesting. And the other thing is too, it's a
really great it's a really great thing that you have these other systems around it,
because you know, if you think about it, when when I have
felt that I get touched, it's never been anything. You know, it's
not been like that. It's like spider webby kind of compliment. Like I
would think, if you don't have your any clothes on, you're going to
feel that more. And it might not be parallel at all. It might
be a breeze in the building or something that makes you feel or you're getting
goosebumps because you got a little cold, or whatever it might be. So
you have these other systems to back it up and think about it too.
You just brought up a very valid point is we could be missing out on
a lot of experiences because we are wearing clothes. You know, where you
may feel that brush across your face, you could feel it in other places
along your body. You know, the right the skin is the largest sensing
organ. So there's a lot of opportunities if you're going or if you're willing
to expose yourself out there, that you couldn't ear yourself exactly. No,
but I totally agree with you as far as you know, touching, being
touched and projecting that in a coming back on you. Honestly, I know
so many people that are so shocked when they're touched, so I, again,
I don't see how that could be happening. I remember the very first
time I was touched. I was on one of my first investigations and I
walked through what I thought was a cobweb. I had no idea what it
was. I literally stopped and looked up and there were no cobweb, so
I just kind of went, hm, okay, took three more steps,
stopped, and another cobweb right on the top of my head. Now,
this was at the sk Pierce Mansion and Gardner, which is known to be
extremely haunted and extremely clean because they keep it super super clean. And one
of the investigators that I was training with stopped and said, what happen up?
And I told her, and she said, you were touched and you
would touched twice, And I said, I had no idea. I was
brand new to doing this and not ready for it. So it was most
certainly nothing that I could have projected upon myself because I wasn't prepared for it,
ready for it, or even knew when it was happening. All right.
I remember the first time I was touched. We were one of the
first groups to investigate Alcatraz, so we got to spend the night on the
island. And this was many, many years ago, and there was a
lot of spots I weren't open to the public that have now become open to
the public. But I remember they took us into the Morgue section, and
this is a section that goes down into the underground of the island. And
I was the first to venture down into this little path and into this little
room. And my members are, you know, filtering in behind me.
But I want to get the widest angle the shot of the entrance. So
I'm you know, this is you know, when we still had to look
through the lens of the camera and take pictures when we had film. So
you know, I'm looking through the lens trying to back up, you know,
to take the whitest angle. And as I'm backing up, you know,
someone put their hand on my shoulder and stopped me. And so I
stopped, and I apologized to the member that I backed into the corner and
there was nobody there. Now I physically felt the weight of a man's hand
on my shoulder, the pressure of his fingers and I was physically stopped.
As I was taking a step backwards. I was expecting to see a living
person behind me, right, nobody there? Wow? Yeah, So you
know these things do happen. Yes, And and even after having that experience,
I was second guessing myself. You know, it was in my jacket.
Could my jacket have done that? You know, it's just all these
things you just kept thinking over and over in your head, trying to not
just say this was a paranormal experience exactly. Wow, that that's that's that's
a cool experience though. So I love sitting around talking as I call them
war stories. Well, the first time I was touched, Yeah, and
I've never been touched like that though. That's you know, to feel the
fingers. It's always been that cob everything. Well, now you your arm
was grabbed when we were doing you were doing sts method in Revere. Oh
we were, that's correct. I forgot about that. Shocked you jumped,
Yeah, you're right, give us a littleal grab. I remember that.
And I was pushed down in Scotland. We were in the earth Castle and
they were filming for do you know Jay blum Key, I don't know if
you know Jay he's with um what what is the name of that place,
the Good Walker Ranch? No, no, no, he's got the channel
with all the oh dark dark zone, dark Zone. T Yeah. So
they were filming and I was standing in the doorway and next thing you know,
something came up behind me and boom, and I went right in.
Oh. I don't even remember. You weren't there, Juliet. I don't
know. I wasn't I was I was back at the other hotel. But
I remember you come. I remember afterwards, and I don't even remember where
I was pushed from, whether it was I just don't know. But I
remember the hallway. You will leave it, I went. You were getting
ready to leave. I remember you told me that. And then when we
were at Madison Seminary, then he was pushed on the stairs, on those
those um metal and the cement stairs. And she had a premonition because all
night she kept saying to us, guys, be careful of the stairs,
guys, be careful of the stairs. And did the night boom flat She
went down and she was definitely pushed. I mean I saw her. She
didn't trip, she was two steps ahead of me. She did not trip.
She didn't stumble. She didn't stub her toe. She just hit both
feet on the landing and then down she went. This is strange. No,
I'm curious because and I don't want to go off topic too much,
but I went to Alcatraz. It's been a while. It was probably ninety
something, ninety seven, ninety eight. It was a long time ago.
Um. You can't investigate there now, though, can you. Well,
they investigate, not that I'm aware of. I didn't think so. And
at the time, you know, this wasn't a thing I wasn't doing.
No, no, anybody was doing anything back then. Um, but it's
a really cool place. I mean, had I known, I'd have at
least walked around with a recorder, just but the old recorder in the pocket,
you know, pretty much, you know, that's pretty much way it
was for me too. Did you get anything there where you wait? Where
did you pick up anything interesting there? Because in Alcatraz? Yeah, oh
yeah, Um, we got some great EVPs. We actually had some interesting
photos of interesting life phenomena. Trying to think what else did we get there?
And then just a lot of personal experiences, you know, because again
this was back when we didn't have digital cameras. You know, we were
still doing film and everything, so our equipment was still pretty limited on what
we could use to try and validate our experiences. Somebody does have a train
here the right It is me. I'm sorry, No, don't be sorry,
but I'm want to make sure I'm not happy hallucinations here? What train?
I don't hear a train engineer coming through? Are you smelling toast?
What's going on? Lights flashing on the sides of your eyes? No,
it's me. I'm sorry. It's a really hot day here, and so
my window is open. I didn't want to be sweating on camera and stuff.
But yeah, I love by a train station, so you will hear
a train. Everything is that a fire and few? You know those hot
days that they fire and few between you in Washington. Uh, yeah,
that's what I find. It's you know, we're pretty it does a rain
all the time, like people tend to think, but we really don't get
very hot days anything beyond ninety you know. Yeah, But I don't want
to say one thing since we had talked about parasons and you know, um,
we've had a lot of people have issues with the nudity, and I
just want people to to give it a chance. You know, it's nothing
different than you would see on Naked and Fright. You know, we blur
the you know, the naughty bits for modesty reasons. But I just want
people to to at least give it a chance and and look at it for
the research reasons of what we're doing. Because we've had a few people give
it negative reviews because of the nudity, Well they shouldn't watch it then,
because obviously they had something in the mind. Anyway. Yeah, well we
had one guy give it a bad review because he didn't get to see people's
probat Obviously we're watching it for the reasons it was filmed for. So I
just want to get it out there that, you know, please give it
a chance. You know, if you have issues with nudity, it's like
I said, it's nothing you're gonna see if you'd watched an episode of Naked
and Afraid. Um, But really, we're really trying to do it the
right way. And if I put the challenge out to either one of you
and said it, you know, proved touch to me, I would think
that you both would all come back down to nudity just to be able to
see what's happening not mine, just doesn't have to be yours, right,
I don't need to have it proven that much, but yeah, no,
but I do. I think it's interesting, is there. I know that
I saw something, But what what can people watch? What can they see
right now if they you know, if they want um o. Our first
documentary is out. It is on Prime, it's on Apple TV, it's
on Google TV, it's on YouTube, it's it's out there. In fact,
as I said, it was just released in the UK as well.
Basically is what we're considering our origin story. It's we tried to bring together
because I've been doing this for six years, had you know, hundreds of
experiments and we try to dwindle it down to an hour and a half of
research and tell a story. Because that was the biggest challenge that we had,
is we had all this research, I was filming the experiments. I
wasn't trying to put together a documentary or try to tell a story. I
just wanted to document the research and be able to publish the research. But
I guess when you're trying to do that, you should have some sort of
you know, story to tell behind it. And so that was something that
we had a challenge or trying to bring together all this research and show people
our history and where we came from point A to point B and how it
changed from me doing just the research to actually bringing on a scientist onto the
project and his origin story in getting involved in this. So there's a lot
of that being told as well, and we're also trying to take on the
challenge of making science entertaining. Yeah, no, one really wants to be
confronted with the ones and zeros. You know, they want to hear the
ghost stories. You know, they want to see the jump scares. It
happens when you're in a lot of these creepy places, Strange things happen,
Strange things will happen that will make you jump. But we want to definitely
show that there are other elements that can also make this more entertaining, more
scary, to be honest, when you realize that when people have these experiences,
there is something to validate this experience. What's the name of the documentary
that Nancy who's asking, is it Paris Sense, Paris Sense the Naked Experiments,
and it's n S Prime. Yep, Yeah, Okay, not to
be confused with all the naked Paris sense A s C E N T.
Yes, because you might not want to Pat it's se n. I know
we're like twelve over here Rod Sorr High School. All right, I don't
know I over it, but I do. I think it's really I think
it is. It's really interesting, and so we'll check it out. Yeah,
sense that's right, sc N se NANCYC. And you can go to
the website too, Touched by a Ghost dot com. Touched by a Ghost
dot Com. I'm going to put that on the bottom of the screen here
so people can check it out. Touched by ghost dot Com. Where'd it
got go? Oh, it looks like Nancy's having a good time there,
dangly bits and sense. Yeah, you know, the average age is not
but mentally it's about ten ten, maybe twelve. I don't yes, not
a good night twelve would be very scarious. Oh my gosh. Yeah,
the russ I have a question for you, Um I you still involved with
the tour group? Is it us Spooked in Seattle Ghost Tours? Yes,
it still happening. Yes, that's one of the things. I am the
only full time ghost center in the Northwest, so you know, I make
my career by lecturing, teaching classes, doing tours, and that's it.
I do not make any money from ghost hunting and I refuse to make any
money from ghost hunting because I want to maintain my credibility. When people say,
oh, you just do it for the money, Yeah, really,
what money? Come on? You know? But really, I would never
want to put myself in a position whereas somebody pays for your service, they
expect something in return. You cannot guarantee that. Plus, yeah, I
think it affects your credibility. And also why would you ever want to put
yourself in a position where somebody is experiencing true paranormal phenomena and they can't afford
you exactly right, then you're not in it for the reasons that you claim
to be. You know, Yes, I've never charged, and any team
that I've been on has never charged to go into a home to investigate,
no matter how many times. And you know, people will say, what
can we do for you? Where this is what we want to do,
this is our passion, this is what we love to do. However,
if you'd like to put a pizza on the table, we'll be more than
happing than you. If people want to donate, and no, I mean
this is just something that the people that I've worked with over the years.
Honestly, it's it's just our passion. It's a hobby, it's our passion,
it's just what we love to do. I totally agree. Yeah,
so I'm going to be in Seattle as a matter of fact, So that's
why I'm interested in, um, your ghost tour. Oh yeah, definitely.
When when are you going to be on here? Um? We are
flying in on June twenty five, Sunday, and we're in Seattle Sunday night
and Monday night, and then that Tuesday we get on the Alaska Cruise.
Okay, Yeah, I definitely would love to meet with you. I can
even try and set up maybe I'll give you a tour of my Death Museum.
Yes, we have a collection of haunted objects. We also have vintage
more morning dresses, jewelry, coffins, all kinds of fun stuff. Oh
that's awesome, I'll great, I'll get Scott. Do you have his email?
Uh? I don't think I actually have an email. We've connected through
Facebook so the show. Maybe we can exchange emails or something. So yeah,
it'd be great. Yeah, Yeah, that sounds great. I mean,
I won't be there, but that's that sounds really nice. Yeah,
it's a girls trip. Yeah, anybody ever in the Seattle area definitely check
us out. We are long tight. Yeah. I think that's great.
I've always wanted to go to Seattle. It's I've heard it's really a great
city. I don't know anything about it other than you know, coffee and
rain, but I've heard I've heard some really nice take foot come on yeah,
yeah, yeah, so so, and one of these days I might
get there because my son's sister lives in uh is here. I'm trying to
think of the name of the town. Now, is there an Auburn.
Think there's Auburn's all over the place, But there is an Auburn Washington.
It's Washington, not Oregon. I keep saying there may be an Auburn Oregon
as well. Yeah, I think I think it's Washington. Yeah, ok,
yeah, yeah. Yeah. So you're still working on that, and
you've worked with some pretty amazing people too. You've You've done a lot with
a lot of people who are kind of entrenched in this community. I've been
I've been on all the Teleban shows. I've worked with a lot of the
big names out there, even before they're even the television shows. Um,
so yeah, it's it's one of those things that I can definitely prove my
history on this. Yeah, and I appreciate you hanging out with us little
names, because little names. We all start from somewhere, you know,
and we're not trying to get anywhere. We just love talking about this stuff,
and you come at it from a very interesting perspective. You know.
I think what you think that's the secret of my success is because I'm very
open and honest in my approach. You know, I could tell you some
pretty horror ific ghost stories and say, oh, yeah, I saw floating
a head come across the room and all that stuff, and no I didn't.
I'm sorry. But I think the secret to my success is people just
love my honesty. You know. I will tell you where the problems are
in this field, and I will tell you with some of the things that
we can to fix this. You know. Granted, you know, I've
been in this field for you know, a little over thirty years, but
I don't claim to be an expert because really a lot of this comes from
experience. And you could say you've been doing this for thirty years and maybe
you've only you know, probably put maybe fifty hours into it. That doesn't
make you an expert, and it pretty limits your experience as well. You
know, I've been doing this for thirty years and I was out. They
are going, you know, investigating almost every weekend, you know, so
let's I put a lot of hours into this. So I'm more than happy
to you know, give people the shortcuts learn from my mistakes. But then
I could also learn from from you too, Scott. You know, even
though you so they say you haven't been in this for as long as I
have, but you still have some incredible ideas that we have to communicate and
share. And that's the problem with the paranormal field is it's becoming more territorial
and people don't want to share their ideas or share their evidence because they think
they're holding onto something gold and it's going to make them famous. And it's
just like no, if you really truly are a paranormal investigator, you have
to publish your research. And that's what I did with parasites. I had
to publish it. I was afraid to, yeah, because again I was
afraid somebody'd steal my ideas. But you know what, this is all trial
and error and we all have to learn together and hopefully share these experiences and
help advance each other. What is your background? I mean what you know,
because it seems it's a very scientific way of thinking, you know,
do you come from a scientific I think it's just how I've always processed experiences,
you know, I've always tore everything apart to the simple ass you know,
experience and try to go from there. Um. I've always told people,
even in the paranormal field, you kind of have to do the same
thing as well. Everybody wants to label everything and claim that they know exactly
what it is that's haunting them and why they're haunting them, but in all
honesty, we really don't. There's very limited limited information that we do have
about the paranormal field. A lot of this comes from people's personal beliefs and
theories and ideas. You know. People asked me, you know, are
you religious, and I said, well, I can be spiritual, but
I'm not religious. Because if you truly are trying to understand the paranormal field,
you can't be led by religion. You can't be biased in your research.
I've always said, you we have to go on what we know and
not with what we think we know. And most of this is we think
we know what's going on. And so I said, well, you know,
it's like, you know, people want to you know, throw demons
out there. Well, that's being led by religion, by a religious belief
I'm not saying that there's not negative experiences out there or negative entities, saying
yeah, I've had negative experiences myself. Is it a demon? I can't
label it a demon. I don't know enough information. But if we can
bring more science into this field and be able to really identify these experiences and
what causes these experiences, then if it's a demon, then it's a demon,
then we help support those beliefs. But otherwise we can't do that right
now. We just have to go with the basics. And so, as
I've said, we have to strip things down to the simplest phenomena. We
can't you know, prejudge a location or you know, throw in our own
personal experiences and ideas out there and say this is what it is, because
we cause more damage to the field than we do in advancing the field.
And I'll use this as an example you know, the biggest problem we have
in the field today is most groups out there are getting their education from watching
the television shows, the saying, I've seen every episode of Ghost Adventures.
I'm an expert in the paranormal field, all right. So then they go
and take what they've learned from these shows and apply it to their investigations.
And so when you have a group come into someone's home and they say,
okay, well, we have determined that what's in this home is a demon,
so we're going to go ahead and leave now. So you have a
demon in your home, right, Okay, So now this family is terrified
because they believe, you know, what this group has told them, and
now you know, they're ready to sell their home and put themselves through financial
despair, you know, because they're so terrified at what's going on. And
so there's a lot of situations where we're constantly called in to the walk clients
off the ledge because they've now been terrified by our prior other group that came
in and told them all these horrible things that they now believe is happening in
their home. And so that becomes the big cycle in the field, and
the biggest problem in the field is because now, you know, everybody thinks
they have an idea what's happening, and they think they have all the answers
to everything, and we really don't. Right, you weren't And you know
you reminded me of something when you were talking before about you know, not
charging for investigations. And I've also thought of this as well. Even if
we were able to go to a house and we can confirm for them,
yes, there's something here, right, we didn't spend nine months there doing
investigations and experiments. But what are you going to do about it? Well,
it's still a haunted house, right right? Am I going to charge
you to tell you that you've got I mean, first of all, you
know I don't. I don't get that stuff, like you know, it's
there's something going on. How am I going to label it a demon?
Or? And if I you know, Julie always says this, if I
had a dollar for everyone that has a vortex or a portal at their house,
you know what I mean? Oh, Julia, I could just kiss
you. Yes, I'll see at the end of the month. Rob,
Yeah, right, I save it. Yeah, remember that? Oh my
god, but oh my god, it is and all of you've done,
if you've given them not they still have a haunting, potentially a haunted house.
But now I also have a fear of it, I mean a real
fear of it. And then I think the other problem is, and I'm
not sure if you talked about this, because I had to switch computers because
my first laptop was going doing something wonky for me on me. But we've
got calls from people that clearly have emotional issues and they're blaming it on I
have an attachment, I have a demon attached to me, or I have
a negative spirit attached to me because I have all this bad luck. When
I start talking to them, and you know, we Scott and I've talked
about this with other team members, and we do an in depth interview with
them, we find out that basically, um, it's their life has been
one poor decision after another and then not taking responsibility for their own decisions,
and so it's just, you know, it's just popped out for them.
And that's another big problem in this field is there's a lot of psychology involved
in this field. Yes, you know, people think that it's you know,
it's all ghosts, when a lot of times it's us as human beings,
our own flaws, right, you know, there's a lot of that
and at play too exactly, and honestly, you really need to work on
waiting that out. Especially. That's why it's so important to do the interviews,
to do the walkthroughs um and a lot of groups don't even do that,
you know, they just want to get in, do an investigation and
go from there. And then there's there's as I said, lazy ghosty or
in proper training. You know, think it's in proper training. I think
people are not trained honestly, you know, like I said, I after
been doing it, not as long as you've been doing it for fifteen years.
But the first team that I worked with basically they said we will train
you, and they did. My friend Barbara and I joined the team,
and they actually, you know, from point A to point B, we're
going to do a walkthrough. We'll take you to the first walkthrough. This
is what we're going to do. We're going to scan the residence. I
mean, it was really we were trained. It wasn't just jump in there
and he as a recorder and grab an EVP. It was really good substantial
training in order to figure out what, if anything, is going on in
the house. Well, it's great, that's great that. I wish there
was more of that, you know, I wish there was more educational services
available on the telement shows. But they're all too afraid to do it.
Well, I think that's what it is, because people are not going to
tune into that stuff. You know, they're they're honestly going to tune into
the jumps and the bumps and the bangs. That's what they want to see.
They're not going to tune into anything like that. Like I said earlier,
you know, bring them along on a home investigation and let them see
how boring it really is, right right, Well, that's why we had
to do parasens on our own. You know, we had networks, you
know, offer us shows. I won't say which networks, but there was
a situation where, you know, when we were developing it and trying to
get it out there, you know, they wanted to expand it. It's
like, well, can you do Aliens? Can you do Bigfoot? And
I was just like, I really don't want to go down that road.
You know. My passion is ghosts and dabbling a little bit in psychic phenomena
as well. But I don't need to, you know, get involved in
going out and taking this technology out into the woods and see if Bigfoot will
come out. And then there was a situation where, you know, they
said, touch well, you know the sexual aspect, you know, women
or men claiming to have sex with ghosts, you know, can we take
that and apply it there? And I said, well, if you're dealing
with a situation where, um, somebody is being physically attacked, being raped
by a ghost and in a word, there, now you're putting me in
a situation where I'm gonna need whoever is having those experiences be willing to be
the subject because obviously they're the target and now they're they're dealing with us traumatic
experience, and you want me to ask them, hey, are you willing
to be naked as well and let us observe this, you know, to
me, I did not want to go down that road, right. I
did not want to use these individuals to you know, I get exploit them
for you know, for the show, and you know that happens a lot
with reality TV. I have a friend whose roommates she was she was one
of the psychologists on hoarders, and she finally had to stop because she said
she felt that it was an exploitation of these You know, I just I
just can't do this anymore. And I could totally see it going down that
path, right. You know, we were talking about, you know,
house investigations, and honestly, you know, since I've known you, Julie,
we've not had one. We've had some that have come up, and
there's for one reason around another. There's things that right right, I'd say
the first ten years of doing this we had I've done a lot of house
investigations, but the last five definitely not now, not not a lot at
all. I don't even remember. We had a couple in the works,
but then the homeowners decided that they didn't want to go down that road.
So yeah, we haven't done any. I haven't done one in the past
I think four years. I think the last one I did was at the
Bridgewater Triangle. Well, I think now because of plevision shows that it's more
accepted that it doesn't. You know, just because you experience something in paranormal
in your home doesn't trigger fear for a lot of people anymore. It triggers
excitements. You know, so they're not out there looking for somebody to help
the ghosts because now television shows approved, you don't need any education to be
a ghost hunter. You don't need a degree in this. Anybody could just
pick up a camera and EMF detector and call themselves a ghost hunter. And
that means how homeowners can now do it themselves. So it has in a
way taken those opportunities away from us for those who are truly trying to document
the phenomena. So you know, there is a downfall to that as well,
because I, as I said too, I haven't had as many opportunities
either, because I think a lot of these people have access to watch and
these go from these shows and now you know, they can do their own
little investigation right exactly exactly well, they think they can, that's bottom line.
They think they can. And so when we go and investigate, Julie,
you know, when you and I go, it's it's a night,
it's several hours. We're not setting up experiments, We're just going and you
know, kind of getting an overall picture of what's there. But it's it's
it's it's not these homes where or places where you can set up these long
term investigations, Well, that's it. And when we go into these other
into these haunted locations, we go in there with preconceived notions of what is
there, as opposed to attempting to find what is there. That's that's what
I miss. I love doing the investigation, trying to figure out what's there,
what's going on, And that's great. It's a it's a it's our
own little mysteries as well, you know, that's it. And you know,
we have to be honest, honestly, maybe fifteen percent we find activity
when we're doing we do go into a home investigation, maybe there's fifteen,
maybe twenty at the most you're going to find activity. True activity. Usually
eighty percent is not a whole lot going on. No, I've always thought,
oh, I'm just gonna say, go ahead, go ahead, I'm
sorry. I was gonna say when I when I teach my classes at the
universities, I've always said that, you know, it's usually one out of
ten, it'll provide some sort of evidence there could be something paranormal going on.
And so that is a lot of work, and it's and we even
find it when we're doing you know, parasense you know, it's a collecting
a lot of you know, data, and a lot of times things don't
happen, so you don't always get that data to validate. And I think
too a lot of groups or individuals in this field get bored, not just
with the fact that they're not always experiencing things like they see on TV,
but they also get bored with the experiments. They'll try and experience at once
and if it doesn't pan out anything, they give up on it, then
don't ever try it again. Right, And if you're dealing with that being
in the right place at the right time, that means you have to run
those experiments over and over and over and over again. Right, that's right,
Ross, We have about a minute left the show, believe it or
not. Really, wow, quick, just fun people to talk to.
Ross. Honestly, if we had a two hour show, we would have
never found you. Would have been the guy that gives us one one word
I want to talk to you. You know, it's fifty four minutes.
Just real quick, we only have half a minute left. Touched by a
ghost dot com and they could find out about parisons and also give a website.
Is that that is the website that's the website for the documentary. I
always encourage people to look me up on Facebook, Ross Ellison, ghost Hunter.
I do a lot of live investigations and stuff like that, so you
can check me out there, and then a ghost for a ghost dot org
for the ghost hunting group, and then of course spooped in Seattle dot com
for the tours and the death Museum. Thank you, Ross, it's been
a real pleasure. We appreciate. Thank you you're enjoying us tonight. Have
a good weekend everyone. We will see you next week and until next time.
Good night, Thank you, Ross, See you in Seattle. All
you guys awesome. You have been listening to The Paranormal Project with Scott Allen
and Julie Finn. Be sure to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.
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