1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:46,119 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:53,399 I'm Bill Thomas, and we hope you enjoyed our Mind over Murder Live podcast 11 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,840 from the Yorktown Library, and today we wanted to spend a little bit of 12 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:02,960 time doing a debrief and a deconstruct and let you all know how something like 13 00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:07,719 this comes together. And we also want to announce some future events and how 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:11,519 you can help us out as we attempt to move forward and grow the pod. 15 00:01:11,719 --> 00:01:15,319 But we had a pretty big event, mister Thomas, And how would 16 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:19,680 you characterize it? Would you characterize it as a smashing success? Hard for 17 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:22,920 me to say whether or not it was a smashing success. I felt good 18 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,400 about it. And if you haven't listened, easy enough to go back and 19 00:01:26,439 --> 00:01:30,680 listen to it. We recorded live at the Yorktown Library in Virginia on Monday, 20 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:38,000 April fifteenth. The actual podcast event ran on Mind Over Murder on the 21 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:42,480 following Monday. The twenty second Part two, which was the live question and 22 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:48,400 answer session with our audience, aired on Thursday, April twenty fifth. Easy 23 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,640 enough to go back and listen to those two episodes if you haven't had a 24 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:56,000 chance. Smashing success. I felt really good about it, Yeah, so 25 00:01:56,079 --> 00:01:59,799 did I. It was unusual, of course, our first time ever doing 26 00:01:59,799 --> 00:02:01,439 something something in front of a live audience, and there we were with a 27 00:02:01,519 --> 00:02:08,000 room full of people. Yeah. The audience response was I was a little 28 00:02:08,039 --> 00:02:12,879 overwhelmed by how many people were in the room, first of all, and 29 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,960 then you were saying a minute ago off air, like how many people were 30 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:21,599 actually listeners? Because we asked and almost everybody raised their hand, and I 31 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,120 was like, oh my gosh, like, I was afraid we were going 32 00:02:24,159 --> 00:02:27,439 to end up having people who were just like, I don't know, I 33 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:29,759 just wandered in off the street. I wanted to see what you guys are 34 00:02:29,759 --> 00:02:34,520 doing. But like almost every single hand shot up when we asked who has 35 00:02:34,599 --> 00:02:37,919 listened to the podcast? It was like, Oh wow, I thought we 36 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,159 were going to have more of a mix. We were thrilled. I think 37 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:45,680 Beth our host for the New Yorktown Library, and they were amazing. She 38 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,800 and the staff did an incredible job and they took great care of us. 39 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:53,159 When she asked the question, and every hand in the room shot up. 40 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,240 That really surprised me because I thought we were going to be like you're saying, 41 00:02:55,319 --> 00:03:00,400 Kristen introducing some folks to Mind over Murder and what we're about. And 42 00:03:00,439 --> 00:03:04,439 the truth is we had one hundred people in the room, all of whom 43 00:03:04,479 --> 00:03:09,840 weren't listeners, which surprised me. It was a really pleasant shock to look 44 00:03:09,879 --> 00:03:14,599 out across the sea of faces and go, oh my god, all these 45 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:19,879 people do actually listen to the podcast. Yeah, that's crazy, because I 46 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,120 think we're used to coming across people like that, other than at crime Con 47 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,680 when I come across a listener in the wild. It usually is just like 48 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,280 one or two people. It has never been a collective group of like you 49 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:32,919 said, nearly one hundred people, all of whom would listen to the podcast. 50 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,319 Wow, this is mind blowing. One of the things that was a 51 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:39,840 pleasant surprise when we have to thank the audience for this, I think for 52 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:46,479 you and me and Joyce call Canada our special guest. The feedback from the 53 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:51,719 audience was so immediate. Obviously, when we're here talking on the podcast, 54 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,000 and it's often you and me or you and me and a guest, there's 55 00:03:54,039 --> 00:04:00,120 no immediate feedback other than two or three people talking there with a room full 56 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:03,120 of people, and we were up on a little bit of a stage, 57 00:04:03,159 --> 00:04:05,879 so we could see everybody putty clearly, and I think they could see us. 58 00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:12,240 There was laughter and applause, and I don't know if I had thought 59 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,839 about that very much, but I hadn't really anticipated that people would respond in 60 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:20,079 such a visceral way. I actually wished I was trying to take notes as 61 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:24,480 we went, and like, I've got my notepad in front of me, 62 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:30,439 and it's things like okay, slow down because another one says. Two local 63 00:04:30,519 --> 00:04:34,600 media camera crews OMG and then I've got like postcards underline, and I don't 64 00:04:34,639 --> 00:04:39,279 know what that was for. I think you meant we wanted to emphasize, 65 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:44,560 which we did. Please take our postcards with Alan Wade Wilmer Senior's info. 66 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,920 Yes, And then I like I wrote down the names of everybody who spoke 67 00:04:47,959 --> 00:04:50,759 at the Q and A. But I was sitting there at one point just 68 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:56,240 taking these notes and realizing, Wow, I wish I had been writing down 69 00:04:56,319 --> 00:05:00,920 all of the places where people responded or applauded or laughed, because I don't 70 00:05:00,959 --> 00:05:03,680 get laughs very often. I'm playing into a room full of teenagers largely, 71 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:06,920 so I don't get laughs very often. I should have written down or they 72 00:05:06,959 --> 00:05:11,319 left at that how cool? I do know. One of the biggest rounds 73 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,959 of applause, though, was when we talked about putting Wilmer's DNA into CODIS, 74 00:05:14,959 --> 00:05:16,600 and that the whole room broke up at that point. Yeah. I 75 00:05:16,639 --> 00:05:23,079 think we're making a point, which is we just don't get why someone like 76 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:28,680 Alan Wade Wilmer Senior, a confirmed serial killer who's been dead since twenty seventeen. 77 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,199 As I said to a television person that I spoke to earlier today, 78 00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:35,560 why in the world. Are we worried about this guy's civil rights? He's 79 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:41,040 been dead for what six years? Yeah, there was a lot of strong 80 00:05:41,399 --> 00:05:46,000 sentiment and strong emotion in the room that evening, both up on the stage 81 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:48,720 from all of us, but then also definitely out in the audience too. 82 00:05:48,759 --> 00:05:53,079 And so that's something I think we want to get into. But let me 83 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,439 ask you a question. Your old hat at live events by now, because 84 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,680 you do them all the time, and you've spoken a crime con plenty, 85 00:06:01,360 --> 00:06:05,800 You've done any number of different things. How was this both similar to and 86 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:11,000 different from the other times in which you've spoken live over the last couple of 87 00:06:11,079 --> 00:06:15,240 years. Both you and Joyce had said beforehand we had grabbed a really quick 88 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,160 dinner, and both of you had said you were very nervous. And I 89 00:06:18,199 --> 00:06:24,600 don't usually get nervous. I do get a heightened sense of Okay, this 90 00:06:24,759 --> 00:06:27,600 is important and I want to do a good job. I want to connect 91 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,720 with this audience. You know, you never know when you go out and 92 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,319 talk to could be a dozen people, it could be several hundred. It 93 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:38,600 doesn't really make me nervous, although I'm a little kind of keyed up for 94 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,319 it. Samped, Yeah, Bamped, I find generally, if I can 95 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,920 focus, work the talking points and make the key points that I want to 96 00:06:47,959 --> 00:06:53,759 make as part of my commentary or whatever it is, usually I'll settle down 97 00:06:53,879 --> 00:06:59,000 pretty quickly. There was a little bit of a heightened emotion though in the 98 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,600 early going. We're using a PowerPoint presentation that you put together, and thank 99 00:07:02,639 --> 00:07:06,639 you. I thought it was great. In the early going. You had 100 00:07:06,639 --> 00:07:11,759 asked me to talk about Kathy, and I know where my triggers are in 101 00:07:11,879 --> 00:07:15,600 terms of when I can feel the emotion welling up inside me. For me, 102 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,800 I don't think this will surprise anybody. It's my sister and my family, 103 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:25,000 and so I know when I've been interviewed any number of times when people 104 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:29,920 ask me about what was it like for you? I handled that one pretty 105 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,319 well at the What was it like for your parents? And both of my 106 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:39,480 mom and dad are gone? Now that one's really difficult, even all these 107 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,600 years later, because I'm able to tap back into what that was like back 108 00:07:43,639 --> 00:07:48,240 then. Interestingly, at this recent live event, early on were talking through 109 00:07:48,319 --> 00:07:53,519 the various aspects of the Colonial Parkway murders, and my sister, Kathy and 110 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:56,959 Rebecca Dowski are the first two victims. A lot of times. We start 111 00:07:56,959 --> 00:08:00,319 off with incident number one and you'd ask me to talk a little bit about 112 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,120 Kathy. And we had this wonderful picture that you use which is a little 113 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:07,199 bit different than the photographs we often use, which is a picture of Kathy 114 00:08:07,279 --> 00:08:11,360 at her Naval Academy graduation. So this is a very proud moment for my 115 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:16,720 family, and as we talked about in the podcast before, Kathy's part of 116 00:08:16,279 --> 00:08:20,879 a legacy. My father, my older brother Richard, and younger sister Kathy 117 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:26,000 are the first father son daughter graduates of the Naval Academy. So I'm looking 118 00:08:26,040 --> 00:08:30,839 at this joyful picture of Kathy and it was a little bit of a struggle. 119 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,360 I remember thinking, oh man, this is hard, and I could, 120 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:39,320 you know, I could feel myself not breaking down in tears, but 121 00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:43,639 I could feel tears welling up. And I remember thinking at that moment, 122 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,000 oh my gosh, we got two hours to do this thing, two hours 123 00:08:48,039 --> 00:08:52,840 to go. I hope the whole thing is not like this for me. 124 00:08:52,279 --> 00:08:56,879 Now. It did settle down after that, but that part was really difficult. 125 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,919 Yeah, And it's funny. The first time that we met, you 126 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:03,919 were here doing a documentary film shoot for a documentary that I don't think ever 127 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:11,360 aired, but I remember going to I met you at an interview that you 128 00:09:11,399 --> 00:09:15,679 were doing over in Kings Now I remember this, Yeah, but I remember 129 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:20,039 that filmmaker in particular, was really trying to push your emotional buttons, and 130 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:22,919 it was pissing me off because it was like, don't freaking don't do that 131 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:28,639 to him, because she was asking questions that were designed to elicit an emotional 132 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,840 response, and I could tell she was going for it. I was like, 133 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,879 don't do that to him. That's not cool. And that was not 134 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:37,360 my intention with choosing that photo of Kathy. Yeah, and I did show 135 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,159 it to you ahead of time, by the way, so like I don't 136 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,639 want you guys thinking that I jumped on this. This wasn't a surprise. 137 00:09:43,039 --> 00:09:45,240 Bill looked at all of our stuff ahead of time. He knew. But 138 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,320 I that first time that I met you and she was trying to push all 139 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,039 your buttons, I was like, this is not cool, Like that's not 140 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:54,240 how you treat somebody. I remember that producer Mary. I don't want to 141 00:09:54,279 --> 00:10:00,919 throw her under the bus. She's a wonderful and very talented television prece and 142 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,679 actually she shot some beautiful footage oh yeah, I don't know that evening and 143 00:10:05,879 --> 00:10:09,440 might have been the next day. We were driving in the car and she 144 00:10:09,559 --> 00:10:13,559 was interviewing me with her from the passengers heat me driving and we're talking about 145 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,759 Parkway murders, and if I'm not mistaken, we were driving along the parkway. 146 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:20,720 She did some really good work. But having done a lot of interviews, 147 00:10:20,879 --> 00:10:26,519 you know where those hot buttons are, and you also know when they're 148 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:31,480 trying to push your buttons. That's always something that I've struggled with in the 149 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,360 years that we've worked together, is the fact that true crime, as much 150 00:10:35,399 --> 00:10:41,639 as it is built on advocacy and justice, it is also built a lot 151 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:46,519 on entertainment, and that does not always sit one hundred percent right with me. 152 00:10:46,759 --> 00:10:50,879 And I think you probably have those same reservations as well, probably even 153 00:10:50,879 --> 00:10:52,879 more so for you because you were the brother of a murder victim. So 154 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:58,240 there are definitely times where we're doing this for the best possible reasons and the 155 00:10:58,279 --> 00:11:03,480 best possible intentions. But there are also people who have told us, oh, 156 00:11:03,519 --> 00:11:07,200 yeah, go to sleep listening to your podcast every night, Noel, 157 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:11,559 I don't know how I feel about that. Don't feed yourself a diet of 158 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,080 crime before you go to bed. It doesn't do anything good for me. 159 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:20,480 It's always a little weird. It would never occur to me to fall asleep 160 00:11:20,519 --> 00:11:26,360 listening to a true crime podcast. Not a criticism of anybody else or our 161 00:11:26,399 --> 00:11:30,279 own stuff either, Like I wouldn't fall asleep to us My gosh, No, 162 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,480 it just doesn't fit within my comfort zone. If I was going to 163 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,639 fall asleep, I do either rather just fall asleep in a nice quiet room 164 00:11:37,799 --> 00:11:43,919 or maybe with very soft background instrumental only music on. Yeah, beyond that, 165 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:46,440 I don't think I'd want to fall asleep, certainly not listening to a 166 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,600 true crime podcast. We're going to crime con here in a couple of weeks, 167 00:11:50,759 --> 00:11:56,919 and there are for every person there who is a passionate advocate for justice 168 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,279 and finding the truth, there are also just as many people who are there 169 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,960 because that is their entertainment, and that's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. 170 00:12:05,159 --> 00:12:09,120 It just sits a little uneasy with me some days. Some days I 171 00:12:09,159 --> 00:12:11,639 have more success with it than others. And that's definitely something that kind of 172 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:16,320 comes up when we're preparing for an event like this, because we do have 173 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:20,799 people who are there who feel very passionately about cases that they feel we need 174 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,200 to talk more about cases that they feel have gone unresolved. But then there 175 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,240 are also people who are there just because they love the podcast and it's a 176 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:31,559 good form of entertainment for them. So I'm still like, as a content 177 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,360 producer, still trying to feel my way around the fact that there are people 178 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:39,279 who this is entertainment for them. It's just a little weird for me. 179 00:12:39,399 --> 00:12:43,639 I'm not trying to be judging about it now. I actually found once we 180 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:48,720 got through that first part of the podcast where we were talking about Kathy and 181 00:12:48,759 --> 00:12:54,000 Becky. Yeah, they're the first of four double homicides, and so typically 182 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:58,080 we talk about one, two, three, four. The case is confusing 183 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,200 enough as it is, if we start to jump around chronologically, I think 184 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,000 that makes it even more confusing. Yeah, and we try to walk people 185 00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:11,039 through the basics of the Colonial Parkway murders. Inevitably we start with Kathy Thomas 186 00:13:11,039 --> 00:13:16,039 and Rebecca Udowski first. I do remember feeling a great deal of relief when 187 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,919 we got through that part of it and off that slide in the PowerPoint and 188 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,519 we moved on. The Other thing too, is that there probably was some 189 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:31,480 heightened emotion because we've never presented in a situation where you have one hundred people, 190 00:13:31,159 --> 00:13:35,799 row upon row of people staring up at you. Now, the truth 191 00:13:35,879 --> 00:13:39,000 is, as we gave it some time, they were incredibly supportive. They 192 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:45,679 laughed, they cried, they asked fantastic questions, they applauded. We didn't 193 00:13:45,679 --> 00:13:50,399 know that any of that stuff. I have, no, and that doesn't 194 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:54,679 definitely add to the rush a little bit too. But yeah, presenting live 195 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,240 in front of a group of people, and yes, I'm a public school 196 00:13:56,240 --> 00:14:00,000 teacher and I present live in front of a group of people every single time, 197 00:14:00,320 --> 00:14:03,360 every day. Yeah, Okay, that teaching in front of teenagers is 198 00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:07,399 not this. That is not what we did. And it is a very 199 00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:11,759 different feeling because I know that every person who I mentioned, from my parents 200 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:15,240 to my boyfriend, to my friends, who was like, are you nervous, 201 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:16,720 And I'm like, yes, I'm nervous, and they're like, but 202 00:14:16,799 --> 00:14:20,639 why you do this every day? No, I don't do that every day. 203 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,360 Don't do that every day. It's different. Let me give anything different. 204 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,320 Some years back, I was asked to teach at the college level for 205 00:14:28,519 --> 00:14:33,080 Belmont University, who have a music business program that's quite successful in Nashville. 206 00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:39,159 And they were doing something they called Belmont East. They were establishing a beachhead 207 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,600 in New York City where I was based working for ASKAP, and I was 208 00:14:43,639 --> 00:14:48,080 asked to teach a class. I'd never taught a class before. Now. 209 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:54,039 I enjoyed high school and undergrad and grad school, and I like teaching. 210 00:14:54,679 --> 00:14:58,960 I like being taught. I didn't know whether or not I would enjoy teaching. 211 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:03,000 My dad, who since passed away after his naval career, went on 212 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,399 to get a master's degree and a doctorate, and he was a college professor 213 00:15:05,639 --> 00:15:09,440 and I heard him speak several times, and he was a fantastic speaker and 214 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:15,000 a great educator. He won Favorite Professor several years in a row at the 215 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:18,679 University of Massachusetts at Lowell. But I remember him coaching me a little bit 216 00:15:18,679 --> 00:15:22,519 because he knew I was going to be teaching this class in New York and 217 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:26,519 it was once a week. And after I taught one or two classes, 218 00:15:26,559 --> 00:15:28,960 I was talking to my dad and I said to my father, you didn't 219 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:33,440 tell me how much fun this could be. Because I started to get comfortable. 220 00:15:33,559 --> 00:15:37,120 You find a bit more of your groove, and it is exciting when 221 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:41,200 you're talking to people that are very interested in what you're talking about, and 222 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:45,919 they want to hear more and they're encouraging you. I don't know the high 223 00:15:45,919 --> 00:15:48,159 school students are as good about this, but no, not generally. That 224 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:52,720 room for the people at New Yorktown Library were absolutely wonderful. They were very 225 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:58,840 kind, and I wasn't expecting people to be rude, right, but I 226 00:15:58,039 --> 00:16:03,840 wasn't quite a expecting such a warm response from it. It was room full 227 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:08,039 of people. Yeah, it was beyond, I think anything that it expected. 228 00:16:08,639 --> 00:16:11,399 So the other time that I had actually got up and presented with you 229 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:15,000 was at Savannah CRIMEX though, and I had a mess for that. It 230 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:19,240 was like I was pacing like an absolute maniac right at the time, and 231 00:16:19,279 --> 00:16:23,840 I was nervous. This wasn't that, but that is largely because and your 232 00:16:23,879 --> 00:16:26,960 Joyce was nervous, and I was trying very hard to help her not be 233 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,879 nervous, right, And the only way I could do that is try to 234 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:33,279 play it cool for myself. So I was trying to be a sort of 235 00:16:33,279 --> 00:16:37,600 a breezy Oh, this is fine, nothing to worry about. I don't 236 00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,480 know, well I succeeded. You settled down right away, though I did, 237 00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:44,480 and I didn't expect that. I did not expect that at all. 238 00:16:44,519 --> 00:16:45,879 I figured I was going to be a wreck the whole entire time. But 239 00:16:45,919 --> 00:16:49,159 I was really surprised to like, by the time we were done and I 240 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,320 called my boyfriend and called my parents and let them know how i'd done, 241 00:16:53,759 --> 00:16:57,120 I was driving home on claud and I like, I freaking killed it. 242 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,960 Yeah, I played it. It was amazing. We did an amazing job. 243 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:04,640 Check us out. We were so fantastic. Yeah, So I wrote 244 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,799 that high of we killed it. We slayed it for the rest of that 245 00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,160 evening, which was about a half hour drive home through a raging thunderstorm. 246 00:17:12,279 --> 00:17:15,720 It was incredibly rainy. It was crazy. Oh my gosh, it was 247 00:17:15,759 --> 00:17:22,160 crazy. And then that same little accomplished high continued for about half of the 248 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:25,519 next day, and then I had to deal with teenagers and it went away, 249 00:17:25,720 --> 00:17:32,319 and they were that it makes me look forward to May thirteenth, which 250 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,960 is our next live event back at the Old Town Library. You surprised me. 251 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,920 You said that there are people who are rsvping. Some of them went 252 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,839 to the first one, so we're going to have to switch up the content 253 00:17:45,039 --> 00:17:47,799 a bit. And of course, the second half of the program is a 254 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:51,640 Q and A, which we'll talk about in a minute. That first experience 255 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:56,359 on April fifteenth makes me look forward to May thirteenth that much more. Yes, 256 00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:00,279 agreed, absolutely, and it public speaking. This is not a thing 257 00:18:00,279 --> 00:18:03,799 that I like to do, but that one went surprisingly well and I am 258 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,680 looking forward to do that and then to being able to meet and greet with 259 00:18:08,759 --> 00:18:12,079 people at Crime Con on Creators Row. That's always a lot of fun too. 260 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:17,559 Yeah. So, and there were people there on April fifteenth that were 261 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:22,079 very kind. They came up to us afterwards, they wanted to say hello. 262 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,880 They asked for autographs, which I still am not completely comfortable with, 263 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,480 but I know that blows my mind every time, why would you want my 264 00:18:29,599 --> 00:18:33,160 autograph? At the same time, I very much appreciate it, and they 265 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:37,480 were terrific and they wanted to talk and they wanted to talk more about the 266 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,000 case. I got pulled off for a little bit because there was another television 267 00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:45,359 crew that wanted to do an interview, so I had to spin off for 268 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:48,160 a couple of minutes and do a brief interview with them. The people there 269 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:53,680 were very energized and enthusiastic, and they thanked this and told us. They 270 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,519 thought it was a terrific conversation. You and I have been podcast partners now 271 00:18:57,559 --> 00:19:03,200 for over four years. Sometimes you'll confess to me that particular things on the 272 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:07,200 public speaking make you nervous, but you always do great. Yeah, and 273 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,640 that's a home boy. You can just chalk that up to any number of 274 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,200 things. Impostor syndrome, low self esteem, all of those. Just pick 275 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:21,279 your psychological hang up, and that's probably what contributes to that. I picture 276 00:19:21,319 --> 00:19:25,519 you in your room looking at yourself in the mirror, saying I'm a fraud, 277 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,559 I'm a fake, I don't know what I'm doing. Oh, every 278 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:33,799 day, at least once a day, every day. None of those things 279 00:19:33,799 --> 00:19:37,680 are true. You do understand that, Yeah, that is the whole crux 280 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,519 of imposter syndrome. Yes, absolutely, I get that. But yeah, 281 00:19:41,519 --> 00:19:45,200 this is for someone who is and this is I think some of what is 282 00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:51,000 interesting about our partnership. You are an extrovert. You are an extroverts extrovert, 283 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,319 and I am an introvert. And it took a little bit to get 284 00:19:55,319 --> 00:20:00,000 you to understand what that means for me when I'm at crime con or someplace 285 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,200 like that, because that does mean Kristen has to go away from crowds now 286 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,519 for thirty minutes, to go be quiet. No, and we've talked about 287 00:20:07,519 --> 00:20:12,000 this before. Crime Clown's a great example of that Savannah Crime Expo and some 288 00:20:12,079 --> 00:20:18,000 of the other public speaking things that we've done at the end of the afternoon 289 00:20:18,119 --> 00:20:22,519 heading into the evening, and we've talked to probably hundreds of people over the 290 00:20:22,519 --> 00:20:26,519 course of the day. You actually have said several times, I just need 291 00:20:26,559 --> 00:20:30,799 to go to my room and be quiet for half an hour. Yes, 292 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:36,039 whereas I'm like completely jazzed by talking to all those people. And what am 293 00:20:36,079 --> 00:20:37,759 I saying? Let's go down to the bar. Now, I'm not a 294 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:41,079 drinker. I'm going to go down there and have my diet coke, which 295 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,240 isn't good for you. But if anything, all that interaction with people makes 296 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:49,240 me want to go out and talk to more people. Yeah, this is 297 00:20:49,279 --> 00:20:53,839 the most classic example of extrovert business. Introvert. I spent years in retail, 298 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:59,599 I spent years in the theater. I can do funny, approachable, 299 00:20:59,759 --> 00:21:03,079 in enthusiastic, I can do all those things. That is a mask, 300 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:08,480 not real Kristin. Real Kristin really just wants to be quiet for a couple 301 00:21:08,519 --> 00:21:14,119 of hours. And it has been interesting to me though that over the last 302 00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:18,279 couple of years of going to crime coning media and talking to people, I 303 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:23,039 actually can take off the introvert mask entirely. I genuinely am jazzed when we 304 00:21:23,319 --> 00:21:27,599 got back from the when we finished the Clue Awards in Orlando and then went 305 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:32,599 out with the folks from Athram. Could have stayed out a couple more hours. 306 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:34,640 That would have been great. I wouldn't have minded. That's not normally 307 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:38,960 me. I don't normally do that. It's interesting. Pamela, my partner, 308 00:21:40,599 --> 00:21:47,400 is an artist and she does quite successfully now online training with students from 309 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:51,279 all over the world, mostly adults, mostly women. Interestingly, but she'll 310 00:21:51,319 --> 00:21:56,680 have close to one hundred people watching her and paying for the privilege of learning 311 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:02,359 about watercolor. She really enjoys it, but she finds the whole thing very 312 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,720 fatiguing, because Camel is a lot like me. Yeah, she finds it 313 00:22:07,799 --> 00:22:14,119 exhausting, and even though she loves teaching and loves seeing people learn more about 314 00:22:14,319 --> 00:22:18,839 artistry and how to execute via watercolor, she finds the whole thing exhausting, 315 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,640 and she's like, you, I just need to chill out for a while 316 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:29,319 here. This has taken a lot of energy to put on that performance, 317 00:22:29,319 --> 00:22:33,839 whereas with me, I'm like, yeah, let's go. You're listening to 318 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:40,240 mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors, 319 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,519 we're back here at mindover Murder. Before we get back to the podcast, 320 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,640 just wanted to remind you that we have a go fundme effort going on right 321 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,880 now. This campaign is designed to help us raise funds to help promote Mind 322 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:03,039 over Murder and specifically to push the Colonial Parkway murders investigation forward. We'd love 323 00:23:03,039 --> 00:23:07,880 it if you could support us in any way that you can. Any donation 324 00:23:07,279 --> 00:23:11,799 from five dollars to whatever you can afford is very much appreciated and will be 325 00:23:11,839 --> 00:23:17,000 incredibly helpful. The link is in the show notes and in our social media 326 00:23:17,039 --> 00:23:22,559 pages. As always, thanks for your support. Now back to mind over 327 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,359 Murders. And that's exactly what it is. This is, like I say, 328 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,319 classic introvert, extrovert. But we really did have a wonderful time, 329 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,559 and I feel like now is probably a pretty good time to thank everybody who 330 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:37,599 did show up. Because there were people from Lancaster County, there were people 331 00:23:37,599 --> 00:23:41,240 who drove down from Northern Virginia, like, I got a shout out to 332 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:47,359 Robert and Michelle, who both drove down from Northern Virginia, then had to 333 00:23:47,440 --> 00:23:51,960 drive home to Northern Virginia, which is about two hours in a driving rainstorm. 334 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:56,160 Yeah, it was crazy. Oh my gosh. Wow. If I 335 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,359 go to Northern Virginia for a friend's book signing or something like that, I 336 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,960 stay over night because I can't deal with drive up, go to an event, 337 00:24:03,039 --> 00:24:07,839 drive back by mad Props to them for coming and hanging out with us 338 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:12,079 and being so enthusiastic and warm and wonderful and then being like, I guess 339 00:24:12,079 --> 00:24:17,000 I got to drive home now, Oh my gosh, yeah wow. I 340 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:22,480 was blown away by how geographically diverse the group was. They were really from 341 00:24:22,599 --> 00:24:25,880 all over the place, and there were a bunch of people who came down 342 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,799 from Lancaster County. Interestingly, in the Q and A section I had originally 343 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:36,960 interpreted our first speaker, a guy named Bill. My recollection is that his 344 00:24:37,079 --> 00:24:41,920 observations felt very strongly worded because I was asking us about the Mary Harding case, 345 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:47,519 and he was being challenging that they'd like to see more publicity and more 346 00:24:47,559 --> 00:24:51,680 discussion even on our part regarding the Mary Harding murder, which is an unsolved 347 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:56,880 murder from nineteen eighty five which happened up in Lancaster County. When I went 348 00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:00,160 back and listened to the podcast a few days later in order to put the 349 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:06,759 edit together, I didn't interpret it in quite the same way. It didn't 350 00:25:06,799 --> 00:25:12,319 seem strongly worded. It might have been that maybe I wasn't anticipating because he 351 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:18,759 basically started with kind of a statement strongly worded, which is he's perfectly correct 352 00:25:18,839 --> 00:25:25,920 in saying that the Mary Harding case needs more attention and that there's a possibility 353 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:30,200 that this could tie into Alan Wade Wilmer and other suspects in Lancaster County because 354 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:37,319 there are strong connections between the Wilmer family and the Mary Harding case. His 355 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:44,640 observations and his comments felt you can tell that from his perspective, and I 356 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,839 think his wife was with him as well, that they were friends with the 357 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,839 Hardings, and they knew this moment and they're still heartbroken. And I can 358 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:57,400 definitely put myself in their place as someone who is also looking for answers in 359 00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:04,720 a case that's more than thirty years old. The observations and thoughtful questions of 360 00:26:04,839 --> 00:26:11,240 the audience were very impactful for me that night, and then going back and 361 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:15,359 listening to the show a couple of days later. In order to put the 362 00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:19,359 edit together, we do try to preserve the linearity of the conversation. So 363 00:26:19,559 --> 00:26:25,200 what you hear is basically what we got. Yeah, we don't edit out 364 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,440 sentences, phrases, speeches, or anything like that. It literally is just 365 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:33,400 Bill going in and making us both sound better than we actually are. It 366 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,720 is what it is. I listened to the podcast when the new episodes come 367 00:26:36,759 --> 00:26:40,400 out, and I'm frequently going, wow, I sound pretty good, and 368 00:26:40,519 --> 00:26:42,759 I'm like, okay, But that's because Bill made you sound good. It 369 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,000 is not necessarily that you sound that way in real life. You just ask 370 00:26:48,079 --> 00:26:51,079 any of your students. It is that Bill makes me sound better. But 371 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:55,279 yeah, we do not when we edit, we do not ever cut out 372 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,559 sentences, phrases, or anything else. Like the conversation flows way that it 373 00:27:00,759 --> 00:27:04,200 was originally presented. I could tell that there were some people who wish that 374 00:27:04,279 --> 00:27:10,880 we had spent more time talking about cases other than the Colonial Parkway murders, 375 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,799 and boy, we wish we had enough time to be able to cover everything 376 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,720 that we think. Ellen Wade Wilmer Senior might possibly have his hands in the 377 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:25,359 reason that we limited the scope of our discussion to the eight Parkway cases Teresa 378 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,279 Howell and our two Parkway adjacent ones, Lorien Powell and Prime Pattenger is just 379 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,599 because we are aware that there are so many more potential victims out there, 380 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:37,839 but we are trying not to overstep, and we are trying to allow the 381 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:42,680 investigation to unfold. We are assuming. Maybe this is a big assumption on 382 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,799 my part, Bill, and you can correct me if I'm not speaking for 383 00:27:45,839 --> 00:27:48,960 you. I have to assume, so that I can sleep better at night, 384 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:56,200 that law enforcement is working very hard to try to figure out every I 385 00:27:56,279 --> 00:27:59,720 noticed the eye roll. I have to assume that law enforcement is working very 386 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,920 hard to try to uncover everything that Wilmer might be involved in. I don't 387 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,000 want to overstep, and I don't want to overreach, which is why I 388 00:28:07,079 --> 00:28:11,680 try to maybe scale back a little bit of what I am willing to accuse 389 00:28:11,799 --> 00:28:15,319 him of. That is also me. I tend to play things safe, 390 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,759 and I know you are much more likely of the two of us to stir 391 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,960 the pots. And considering the fact that Mind over Murder is an audio podcast, 392 00:28:27,079 --> 00:28:30,559 I will say that, yes, I did just roll my eyes. 393 00:28:30,559 --> 00:28:33,920 I do want to be respectful if I could do it all over again. 394 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,720 And the good news is on May thirteenth, we get a chance to do 395 00:28:37,759 --> 00:28:41,720 it all over again. One thing I will commit to is actually Bill and 396 00:28:41,759 --> 00:28:45,440 some of the other speakers who tended to be at the front end, and 397 00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:49,480 by the way, I think that's because they felt strongly about what they wanted 398 00:28:49,519 --> 00:28:52,759 to say, which is fine. I think their points were valid, and 399 00:28:52,799 --> 00:28:56,319 I think, yeah, no, I agree with that too. Next time 400 00:28:56,359 --> 00:29:00,920 around, which is coming up soon, I will acknowledge that there are a 401 00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:04,680 number of other unsolved murders and that it would only take a few sentences to 402 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:11,960 say that it is a very peculiar phenomenon that there are so many rapes and 403 00:29:11,119 --> 00:29:17,680 murders that have gone unsolved in Lancaster County. As one of our people said, 404 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,279 she mentioned that there were only like ten thousand some people living in Lancaster 405 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,559 County. I think at that time. It's a beautiful, rural, gorgeous 406 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:32,599 stretch of Virginia, but not that many people live there. It's farmland, 407 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,559 it's forest, and it's these incredibly beautiful rivers and inlets off the Chesapeake Bay. 408 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,519 The fact that there are so many unsolved rapes and murders in Lancaster County 409 00:29:42,519 --> 00:29:47,920 stretching back forty years, if not longer, that is very disturbing, and 410 00:29:48,039 --> 00:29:53,640 it's also very peculiar to have so many unsolved cases in this gorgeous area that's 411 00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,119 not known as a high crime area. I do want to spend a couple 412 00:29:57,119 --> 00:30:02,519 of minutes next time on Mind over Murdered Live talking about that, because I 413 00:30:02,559 --> 00:30:06,960 think their point was totally spot on on some level. Folks that live in 414 00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:10,720 Lancaster County or used to live in Lancaster County, I know a number of 415 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,400 them have approached us and they've said that they feel like there's been a media 416 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,319 spotlight shining on them since the Wilmer news broke. Some of it's not very 417 00:30:18,359 --> 00:30:25,519 flattering to this beautiful county, and I understand that people don't want to think 418 00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:30,400 of their beautiful small town as being a dangerous place to live, or that 419 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:36,240 this is a place where people are raped and murdered and their cases go unsolved. 420 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:41,960 I actually hope that this discussion that we're involved in helps to shine that 421 00:30:41,079 --> 00:30:47,440 media spotlight on Lancaster County with an eye towards solving some of these cases, 422 00:30:47,519 --> 00:30:49,680 but I would like to spend a few minutes at a minimum. I know 423 00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:53,000 we have to cover the Colonial Parkway murders, which is what we're there for, 424 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,680 but I do want to acknowledge the fact that people from Lancaster County and 425 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:03,559 across Virginia are asking what about our cases and what about all these unsolved cases? 426 00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:08,640 And there does seem to be this very weird cluster of unsolved cases that 427 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:14,079 have direct ties to the Wilmers, and that is disturbing. It is, 428 00:31:14,119 --> 00:31:19,000 for sure. It was really a very interesting, very thought provoking evening, 429 00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:25,920 and I am glad that we were able to not only present our thoughts. 430 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,559 And I'm sure law enforcement didn't appreciate our action plan that we laid out for 431 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:34,119 them, but hey, by the way, that was the Kristin Dilly action 432 00:31:34,279 --> 00:31:37,599 plan. It was the Kristin Dilly action plan. Yes, I'm sure they 433 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:41,920 didn't necessarily appreciate that I was basically telling them, here's how to do your 434 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:45,559 job. But I also like the fact that we were able to listen to 435 00:31:45,599 --> 00:31:48,920 other people's concerns, answer questions where we could, and in some cases we 436 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:53,240 can't answer questions with regard to the status of certain cases. Because we're not 437 00:31:53,319 --> 00:31:57,480 investigators, we don't know these things. But everybody who brought up a concern 438 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:04,400 or a question up some really excellent valid points. That includes people who wanted 439 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:08,240 to know how can we help you moving forward? And for some of these 440 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,559 things we don't have answers. We've had people ask a number of times, 441 00:32:12,559 --> 00:32:16,000 how can we convince law enforcement to test the evidence or whatever? And we 442 00:32:16,039 --> 00:32:21,440 can't. There is nothing that we can do to convince law enforcement to do 443 00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:23,759 anything that they don't want to do. We'd had a couple of people send 444 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:29,640 us messages asking is there an advocacy group that's not us that can advocate for 445 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:35,039 evidence testing or using different types of DNA testing or genetic genealogy. And again, 446 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,599 some of that is a valid question, but some of that is just 447 00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:40,960 so far outside of our wheelhouse. I don't think I would begin to know 448 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,160 how to answer that. And the other thing is it's worth reminding everybody we 449 00:32:45,359 --> 00:32:52,200 have offered the Colonial Parkway murders families have offered to raise funds to pay for 450 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:58,480 advanced forensic testing, and we've been turned down flat. We have been told 451 00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:02,920 the federal government, which is the FBI and the Department of Justice cannot accept 452 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,160 gifts of this type. I'm quoting them directly now. I think that's absurd. 453 00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:15,039 There could be some workarounds via the Virginia State Police. The good news 454 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,839 in all of this is that as a result, I think of the success 455 00:33:19,079 --> 00:33:22,559 of the testing of the evidence in the Robin Edwards rape kit, which led 456 00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:28,400 directly to the identification of Alan Wade Wilmer Senior after all these years, and 457 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:34,839 then that led directly to connecting Wilmer to the murder of Teresa Howell. And 458 00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,359 these are fantastic outcomes. We're getting answers now for families that have been looking 459 00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,079 for answers for more than thirty years. Our sense is that there is more 460 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:50,359 optimism and enthusiasm and energy on the part of the law enforcement agencies to test 461 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,799 untested evidence compare notes. Yes, of course we'd like Wilmer's DNA in the 462 00:33:54,839 --> 00:33:59,880 CODA system, but failing that, they have told us they are doing one 463 00:34:00,079 --> 00:34:04,680 to one comparison, so they are going back and this is they is. 464 00:34:04,759 --> 00:34:09,440 Law enforcement agencies across Virginia, as we are told, are testing evidence applying 465 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:16,760 for sake grants, getting the sexual assault kit initiative grants and comparing notes about 466 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,559 what they're finding in terms of offender profiles. This may lead to connections to 467 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:27,239 Wilmer and other suspects, and I think this is a win all the way 468 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,079 around. As I said at our live event, I'm more optimistic today than 469 00:34:31,119 --> 00:34:35,920 I have been in several years that we're going to see more progress in the 470 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:39,079 Colonial Parkway murders and these other unsolved murders. So I think there's some cause 471 00:34:39,079 --> 00:34:44,360 for optimism. We did say that we would try to come back to our 472 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:49,360 listeners, the in person listeners and you folks listening on the podcast, and 473 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,599 thank you for that. One of the things that we decided to do was 474 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:58,199 to start a go fund me to ask for your financial support in any amount 475 00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:01,280 that you can provide. It can be five dollars. If we get five 476 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:06,480 dollars from every listener to this podcast, we'd be in great shape. And 477 00:35:06,519 --> 00:35:10,000 we want to use that money for things like covering the costs of our live 478 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:15,199 event. We went out and we printed not Law Enforcement the Colonial Parkay murders. 479 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:21,679 Families paid to have those Wilmer postcards printed up. You heard us ask 480 00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,440 about them, and hopefully those of you that are able to attend our upcoming 481 00:35:24,519 --> 00:35:29,920 events, will take a stack of these postcards and pass them out. You 482 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:34,719 had a request from someone they wanted digital copies of the postcards, and we'll 483 00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,599 put those up on our social media again so that they could pass them along 484 00:35:38,679 --> 00:35:45,039 electronically to people that were participating in community groups that might know something about Alan 485 00:35:45,079 --> 00:35:51,000 Wade Wilmer, Senior, our identified suspect. Yeah, the costs for printing 486 00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,360 the postcards and everything else do you come from out of our funds that they 487 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:59,800 are not being covered by anyone other than the Parkway families. This also helps 488 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:04,639 us to cover travel costs. Bill does have to drive down here from Connecticut, 489 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:07,039 and I'm sure that's a bit of a haul. Even though you've got 490 00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:12,280 a wonderfully sporty and I'm pretty sure gass economical car, Bill still has travel 491 00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:15,079 costs that he needs to consider. And then when we do our large events 492 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,400 like your Crime Podcast Fest or Savannah Crime Expo or Crime con everything that we 493 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,400 pay for that comes out of our pocket, that becomes a little hard for 494 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:28,599 us to be able to balance. Anything that you can contribute to the GoFundMe 495 00:36:28,679 --> 00:36:32,039 to help us defray some of our costs we truly appreciate. We have had 496 00:36:32,079 --> 00:36:36,480 people ask and we've already addressed this, but I want to make sure that 497 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:38,400 we address it again one more time, just to make very clear. We've 498 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:43,840 had people ask is there a GoFundMe for evidence testing? We do not have 499 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:49,639 control of the evidence. We cannot raise funds for evidence testing. The government 500 00:36:49,639 --> 00:36:52,039 has said they will not accept gifts of that nature. We cannot force them 501 00:36:52,079 --> 00:36:55,079 to do that, and we don't have control of the evidence that we could 502 00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:59,840 send out to a private lab. We thank everybody who has made this chin 503 00:37:00,079 --> 00:37:04,119 Ris offer of can we please support evidence testing? Financially, we don't have 504 00:37:04,159 --> 00:37:07,199 a way to responsibly do that. Unfortunately, the fact that you have even 505 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:10,159 offered means the world to us, and we thank you very much for that. 506 00:37:10,679 --> 00:37:15,840 So the advertising that you hear on the podcast helps offset these expenses amazing, 507 00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,599 The advertising is not that lucrative. At the same time, if we 508 00:37:21,679 --> 00:37:25,280 can ever find a way to get to a place where we can fund private 509 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,920 testing of evidence, we would absolutely do it. So if that opportunity presents 510 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,880 itself in the future, we'll definitely come back to you with that. But 511 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,760 we're right now trying to do everything we can to keep this case moving. 512 00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:45,320 And this won't surprise anybody. I said it at our event on April fifteenth. 513 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:50,880 Part of the reason why we're doing these live events and these television interviews 514 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:55,199 and these print interviews is we want to keep pressure on law enforcement to keep 515 00:37:55,239 --> 00:38:01,000 putting resources into the Colonial Parkway murders and unsolved murders across Virginia and across the 516 00:38:01,039 --> 00:38:06,960 country. The fact that we filled a room full of people who are passionate 517 00:38:07,119 --> 00:38:12,599 and focused and interested and ready to help in any way that they can is 518 00:38:12,639 --> 00:38:19,440 a demonstration of the fact that the community is interested in seeing these cases solve. 519 00:38:19,639 --> 00:38:22,360 And this is not something that's unique to the Colonial Parkway murders, but 520 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,119 those are the cases that we're talking about. We want to just keep reminding 521 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,360 our French and law enforcement that people in Virginia and across the country are looking 522 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:37,519 for answers. And I would tongue al most firmly in cheek like to tell 523 00:38:37,559 --> 00:38:40,559 the FBI and the VSP that the best way to get Bill Thomas to shut 524 00:38:40,639 --> 00:38:45,880 up is to solve this case already, and you will not have to listen 525 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:50,440 to him talk about the issues inhering in this case anymore so please, if 526 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,320 that is what you want, solve the case, get it done. Then 527 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:57,320 we can just transition over to the two hundred and fifty thousand cold case homicides 528 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,960 across the United States, exactly talking about these eight or so murders in the 529 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,639 Colonial Parkway murders, there's so much more to talk about. I feel like 530 00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:08,679 we need to go ahead and take on the tailan Al murders. There's a 531 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:14,000 whole bunch of stuff there. We've got a list of cases a mile long 532 00:39:14,039 --> 00:39:17,280 that we want to cover, and we've done a lot of emails recently where 533 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:23,000 people are suggesting other cases to us as well. We're very interested in hearing 534 00:39:23,039 --> 00:39:27,800 from people. There are a lot of people whose hearts are broken and they're 535 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,840 looking for answers, and it's pretty easy, I think, for us to 536 00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,719 identify with them, because there we are. It's just a different name, 537 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:40,079 a different face, a different town, all the same issues, pushing back 538 00:39:40,119 --> 00:39:46,119 against what feels a bureaucracy that sometimes doesn't appear as caring as it should be. 539 00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:50,239 Well, if you'd like to come to our upcoming live event at the 540 00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:53,559 Yorktown Library, there are still spots available. That is on May thirteenth, 541 00:39:53,679 --> 00:40:00,000 Christian's birthday at the Yorktown Library. Well, a way to celebrate your birth 542 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:05,199 Yeah, that's that is your way that you decided there, mister Thomas. 543 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,960 I did tell you it was my birthday and you said it'll be fun, 544 00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:14,599 so I said sure. But the nice people at the Yorktown Library had openings 545 00:40:14,840 --> 00:40:20,360 and they just coincided with your birthday. They did, so we will do 546 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,440 that, and there are still spots available, though I would go ahead and 547 00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:29,079 try to secure my spot sooner rather than later. Although we were very pleasantly 548 00:40:29,119 --> 00:40:32,280 surprised that despite having a room full of people, they were able to accommodate 549 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,119 every person who walked up and said, Hey, can I get into this 550 00:40:36,199 --> 00:40:39,199 event? Yep, they told us quietly. They always keep a small number 551 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:45,039 of seats available for walk ups. So every single person that said, oh 552 00:40:45,079 --> 00:40:47,480 I really want to go to this thing tonight, but you're sold out whatever, 553 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,760 we said, come anyway, and they man to squeeze everybody in and 554 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,079 that was great. And there's nothing like a sold out show. It can 555 00:40:55,159 --> 00:41:01,880 be one hundred person, beautiful room in gorgeous library. There's nothing like being 556 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:07,320 in a room that's full of like minded people. Absolutely, so please do 557 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:09,599 come to our event at the Yorktown Library on May thirteenth. If you are 558 00:41:09,639 --> 00:41:14,280 planning on going to Crime Con, which is May thirtieth through June second, 559 00:41:14,519 --> 00:41:19,119 we are going to be appearing on a Creator's Row. I guess they've decided 560 00:41:19,119 --> 00:41:22,639 to rename it. It's not podcast row anymore, it's Creator's Row, and 561 00:41:22,679 --> 00:41:24,760 so we will be there. We will be hanging out with our friend Cheryl 562 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:30,440 McCollum from Zone seven, Jess got Morgan from body Bags, and all of 563 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:35,039 our other closest podcasting friends and companions. So if you are planning on being 564 00:41:35,079 --> 00:41:37,880 in Nashville, please do come find us. We will have every variety of 565 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,519 postcarded sticker that you could want, and we're going to be debuting some merch 566 00:41:42,599 --> 00:41:46,920 as well. Exciting, very exciting. So May thirteenth, on Monday evening, 567 00:41:47,039 --> 00:41:51,880 six to eight pm at the Yorktown Library. We look forward to seeing 568 00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:55,280 you there for round two of Mind Over Murder Live. That is going to 569 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,679 do it for this episode of Mind Over Murder not Live. Thank you so 570 00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:12,960 much for listening. We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a 571 00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:19,559 production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas 572 00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:23,800 and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music 573 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:30,039 is by Kevin mcleoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space 574 00:42:30,159 --> 00:42:34,719 Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You 575 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,519 can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway Murders on Facebook, and finally, 576 00:42:38,679 --> 00:42:43,599 you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. 577 00:42:44,079 --> 00:43:01,039 Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder No