1 00:00:28,359 --> 00:00:30,879 Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm Martin Willis, your host, 2 00:00:31,199 --> 00:00:35,159 looking forward to this evening. I met Jay, Christopher King, and Lyne 3 00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:41,039 At in Washington, DC at the hearing and a great guy. I'm really 4 00:00:41,039 --> 00:00:45,119 looking forward to our conversation tonight. Just a couple of things, we'll get 5 00:00:45,119 --> 00:00:50,280 this out of the way quickly. Is our blog this week from Charles Lear 6 00:00:50,439 --> 00:00:56,840 is the nineteen ninety three Cosford incident. It's in England and the Ministry of 7 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,679 Defense was involved and all that. So that's a good one. Check that 8 00:00:59,719 --> 00:01:03,200 out on on a website. Audio blogs we always have going out there. 9 00:01:03,359 --> 00:01:10,040 And I want to say quickly something about last week that last week's guests, 10 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:17,319 Jonathan he will not watch his own interview and will not look at the comments 11 00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:19,319 or anything like that. And I know a lot of people have posted really 12 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:26,359 nice supporting compliments, comments and compliments, and I do appreciate that a lot 13 00:01:26,519 --> 00:01:30,599 a lot of people realize that the stress he was under and that he just 14 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:34,400 did not want to tell the story. Thankfully we got through it. He 15 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:40,879 told added a couple of things, not added them. He said them that 16 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:46,959 were initially taken out of the original edited out. That things that are out 17 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,400 there, but he was very careful, like he didn't want to add anything 18 00:01:49,439 --> 00:01:53,359 to it, but as if you watch it, you could see how painful 19 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,959 it was. I was surprised to be talking to James Fox a few days 20 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:02,000 ago, I don't know if three four days ago, and he said that, 21 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:08,599 oh him, Oh yes, I actually did the interview with Greer and 22 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,960 him together back in the Disclosure project in two thousand and one. I had 23 00:02:13,039 --> 00:02:16,960 no idea James Fox was involved in that back then. And he said that 24 00:02:17,039 --> 00:02:21,479 he believes the story one hundred percent, one hundred and ten percent as he 25 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,800 actually put it, and thought he was the most impressive of everyone that talk 26 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:31,360 that day. A couple of things. Next week it will be a tribute 27 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:37,599 to a good friend of the show, and I was lucky enough to get 28 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,319 to meet him and hang out with him for several evenings out in Phoenix. 29 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:46,680 And unfortunately, Calvin Parker has passed away, and we're going to be dedicating 30 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:53,599 next week's show to him and also my good friend Lee Spiegel. On the 31 00:02:53,599 --> 00:02:59,759 twenty first, we are doing a show over on UNX in his time slot 32 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:05,800 Edge of Reality timeslot, which is seven pm Next third, next yes, 33 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,599 next third, not this coming Thursday. But Thursday the twenty first, at 34 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,759 seven pm Eastern, we're going to do a really nice tribute a whole bunch 35 00:03:13,759 --> 00:03:19,159 of us have gotten together, and that will be I will post the links 36 00:03:19,199 --> 00:03:24,000 on this website and it's going to be hosted on Ben he won the lottery. 37 00:03:24,039 --> 00:03:28,400 We had a little lottery whose YouTube channel was going to be on and 38 00:03:28,599 --> 00:03:32,199 Ben Hansen. It'll be on his YouTube channel and I will put links to 39 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:38,479 that. But I don't have any other way to give information about that other 40 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,400 than if you're on If you're on my newsletter, it'll come out in that 41 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:47,199 next week, and you can get on that newsletter on my podcast website, 42 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:52,520 which is podcastufo dot com. So if you'd like to get on that newsletter, 43 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:58,400 and I can announce next week exactly how to find that show for Lee. 44 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:00,800 But it should be a good one up. I don't know why that 45 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,479 came out there, but anyway, I'm ready to bring in our guests. 46 00:04:03,520 --> 00:04:06,719 I think I'm good to go again. I met him in Washington, DC. 47 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,639 Great guy, Jay, Christopher King. Welcome to the show. Jay, 48 00:04:13,039 --> 00:04:15,120 Well, thank you so much for having me Martin. It's great to 49 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,800 be here. Yeah, yeah, I think I didn't me. You helped 50 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,560 me in the cafeteria too. I'm trying to remember. It seemed like I 51 00:04:21,639 --> 00:04:24,959 was kind of lost in the cafeteria and you helped me out there. But 52 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:29,000 anyway, it was you were there. I got there at five forty am, 53 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:33,000 and you were toward the front of the line. What's right, What 54 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:39,439 time did you get there? I think I got there. I got there 55 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,519 before Keith Taylor. I got there basically, I got there a little bit 56 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,000 right after Randy. So I think it was around like three thirty or so 57 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,480 that that my friend Jordan and I got to the line. You know, 58 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,079 I think that there there's a lot of like conspiratorial talk about like who got 59 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,639 into the room and things like that, and oh yeah, well I saw 60 00:04:58,959 --> 00:05:01,800 I saw people that were not in line sitting way ahead of me, you 61 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,079 know, yeah, a lot of people. Yeah, it was there. 62 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,959 It was real. They really did get in there. Yeah. There were 63 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,800 there were a few people that that had that that I want name that I 64 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,319 that I recognized very early on had and I think you know this too, 65 00:05:17,639 --> 00:05:25,040 that had actually paid people to sit in line for them, like overnight and 66 00:05:24,399 --> 00:05:28,279 h and a couple of those people were pretty relatively prominent people and so like, 67 00:05:28,839 --> 00:05:30,040 you know, I'm not going to name any names or anything like that, 68 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:33,199 but some people were treating it like an iPhone release or something like that. 69 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,439 And you know that they had paid somebody to sit there all night and 70 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:39,959 they did, and they did. And then there were people like you and 71 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:44,879 I that you know, just got our coffee at an absurdly early hour of 72 00:05:44,879 --> 00:05:48,000 the day and and showed up in our suits. Right. Yeah, well 73 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:53,240 that was that was a lot of fun. I mean, it was interesting 74 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:57,319 all the way around the people in line, uh, you know, and 75 00:05:57,399 --> 00:06:01,480 then and then I was the second to last person to get in the room, 76 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,720 and Chris later beside me. He was the last person to get in 77 00:06:05,759 --> 00:06:10,680 the room. So and some people had cut in front of us and I 78 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:14,279 kind of called them out and that's the only way we got in. But 79 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,480 it was that close. And but I thought it was a you know, 80 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:23,759 an excellent experience. I wouldn't have traded it for anything. It was great. 81 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:27,959 Yeah, it was amazing. I mean, it really felt like we 82 00:06:27,959 --> 00:06:31,920 were seeing history in front of our eyes. And there there are various points 83 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,519 during the hearing itself and right after we got into the room and we're sitting 84 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,920 down and for the rest of the day, the rest of my trip there 85 00:06:38,959 --> 00:06:41,240 where I was just kind of like looking at my hand, you know, 86 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:46,759 practically pinching myself at at all the ground that was covered, you know, 87 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:49,439 by not just Grush, but also David Faber and Ryan Graves, right, 88 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:56,959 and how seriously a bipartisan array of politicians were taking these issues, how well 89 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,560 read some of them were about this, given this, you know, you 90 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,040 and I were used to the deep lore and where we've been marinating in the 91 00:07:04,399 --> 00:07:09,959 subject matter for years, and then you see somebody that you're used to seeing 92 00:07:09,959 --> 00:07:14,959 on CNN just kind of pick it up and hit the ground relatively running smoothly. 93 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,639 It was pretty amazing. I thought they had some very good questions, 94 00:07:17,639 --> 00:07:21,279 a lot of them. I agree, Yeah, yeah, they were really 95 00:07:21,319 --> 00:07:25,360 good. It's really funny. I filmed the whole thing. I decided to 96 00:07:25,759 --> 00:07:30,199 because I wasn't prepared to. But I asked the guy if it could take 97 00:07:30,199 --> 00:07:31,560 a picture at the door, and he said, you can do whatever you 98 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,120 want, just don't disturb anyone. So I put my phone on my stick 99 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,639 and I held it up and I filmed the whole thing. And I'm laughing 100 00:07:39,639 --> 00:07:43,639 now because anytime they show like a news clip and they show like David Faber 101 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:49,279 or anything like that, you see my phone and it's pretty funny. Yeah, 102 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:53,920 yeah, I've noticed that, and I've got later that day and afterwards, 103 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,759 I was kind of over at Ryan graves shoulder, and so I got 104 00:07:57,759 --> 00:08:01,160 a lot of kind of like highlighted. I got a lot of funny messages 105 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,959 on my phone from people that were like, I see you on my television 106 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,199 and then they there'd be like a red circle around me as if I didn't 107 00:08:07,199 --> 00:08:09,639 know where I was or something like that. But I enjoyed it nonetheless. 108 00:08:09,639 --> 00:08:13,160 I thought it was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, So let's let's talk 109 00:08:13,199 --> 00:08:18,920 about the euro beginnings and what got you interested in the whole topic to begin 110 00:08:18,959 --> 00:08:24,480 with. Was that an actual situation or did you have some type of interest 111 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:31,199 ahead of that? Uh, well, I did, I mean to kind 112 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:35,440 of go in through the via the deep end. I did have my own 113 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:43,879 experiences pretty early on as a kid, and that definitely informed my approach to 114 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:52,200 the field in general of ufology and anomalous studies overall. I and it was 115 00:08:52,799 --> 00:08:56,799 confusing for me as a kid and even as a young adult, as I 116 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:03,480 was approaching things like paranormal stuff versus uthology and things like that because I lived 117 00:09:03,799 --> 00:09:07,440 starting when I was about six years old, I lived in a house that 118 00:09:07,679 --> 00:09:13,279 was what most people would consider haunted. Right there is poulter Geist activity in 119 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,600 the house. There were kind of like strange shadows that you would see every 120 00:09:16,639 --> 00:09:20,440 once in a while, and even apparitions, though poulter Geist activity was definitely 121 00:09:20,519 --> 00:09:24,440 kind of the most common phenomena that I experienced in the home. As well 122 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:30,679 as my mom, my father, and my younger sister also were there and 123 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,600 you know, had their own take on their own experiences there, and so 124 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:45,639 I had there was pronounced phenomena right there, and then later on I had 125 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:52,799 my own experiences with UAP phenomena and what people consider, you know, non 126 00:09:52,879 --> 00:10:00,080 human entities starting when starting not that much later, when I was about ten 127 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:03,639 years old or so, the hunt and the huntedd house was in Mishiwaka, 128 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:13,200 Indiana, and then I started having UH. I had interactions with a couple 129 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,039 of beings that people consider grays when I was about nine and a half ten 130 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:24,480 years old and hanover Indiana. So you know, it's when people will in 131 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:28,639 years past, you know, there's it's one of the points of negotiation. 132 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:35,840 That's that can be very tough for an experiencer of of these entities and UAP 133 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,159 phenomena or any other kind of anomal study where you know, for a lot 134 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:46,960 of people, the question of how did you get into this is a relatively 135 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:52,480 easy one, right but not. But for some folks experiencers, it gets 136 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,960 you into this tough terrain because it's part of you know, for years, 137 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,600 in through my twenties and thirties, is I would just kind of get around 138 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,840 the point, you know what I mean. I didn't want to talk about 139 00:11:03,919 --> 00:11:11,200 why I was interested in this stuff. You know, somebody asked go ahead. 140 00:11:11,840 --> 00:11:15,840 As I've said on this show before, you know, this was you 141 00:11:15,879 --> 00:11:20,279 know, the whole experience or thing with you know, people you know claiming 142 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:24,840 abductions what they call now, or experiencers who I don't know if they called 143 00:11:24,919 --> 00:11:28,159 experiences, but anyway, whatever it is. Uh. At first, when 144 00:11:28,159 --> 00:11:33,440 I started the show in twenty eleven, I remember thinking, oh, I'm 145 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,200 gonna completely stay away from that topic. And because it was a hard pill 146 00:11:37,279 --> 00:11:41,840 to swallow. And I think you know, anyone that's new looking into the 147 00:11:41,919 --> 00:11:48,399 UFO world, if they start seeing something about this type of situation, you 148 00:11:48,399 --> 00:11:50,320 know, they may run away thinking, oh, you know, that's just 149 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:54,159 too much. I can't I can't handle that, you know, if that 150 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:56,720 if there any part of it is true or anything like that, or you 151 00:11:56,759 --> 00:12:00,600 know, what's wrong with people or what you know, you hear these things. 152 00:12:01,519 --> 00:12:05,919 So it's really I have to say that after talking to a number of 153 00:12:05,919 --> 00:12:09,879 people over the years, I think that there is definitely something going on. 154 00:12:11,039 --> 00:12:16,879 And I've always had questions like, Okay, so if you know, why 155 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:22,000 is this person getting visits over and over again? And I just heard a 156 00:12:22,039 --> 00:12:24,679 wonderful interview. I've been trying to reach him for a number of years. 157 00:12:26,799 --> 00:12:33,000 Is Jack a whiner from or winner? The right pronunciation German is whiner? 158 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,240 But he's one of the brothers and the alec Ash inc In Maine that was 159 00:12:39,279 --> 00:12:43,720 taken and you know, he basically said he felt like he was tagged for 160 00:12:43,799 --> 00:12:48,639 life after they had that one abduction. And he's an amazing person to listen 161 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,240 to. I've been trying to get him on the show for for a long 162 00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:58,000 time. But anyway, so that's kind of it is interesting that these experiences 163 00:12:58,039 --> 00:13:05,240 seem to happen over and over again to these people. And uh, anyway, 164 00:13:05,399 --> 00:13:09,639 I'm talking too much, so you can go ahead and can tell you. 165 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:13,039 But I know, I appreciate what you're saying, and I and I 166 00:13:13,159 --> 00:13:18,240 understand that viewpoint, you know, and I think that there's that that was 167 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:24,200 that was definitely a predominant viewpoint for many years and still is to a degree. 168 00:13:24,639 --> 00:13:28,200 You know, this idea that that you know, something like this, 169 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:33,039 a UAP encounter, an encounter with some other being or some other form of 170 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:37,399 intelligence, is like getting hit struck by lightning, right or something like that, 171 00:13:37,399 --> 00:13:43,799 where it could really only happen once, and the odds are so unbelievably 172 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:48,600 you know, rare that how could it possibly be happening again? And at 173 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,559 the same time, we have, you know, thousands and thousands of reports 174 00:13:52,600 --> 00:14:00,399 of people repeating, you know, repeatedly getting getting kind of taken, almost 175 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,320 as if there was some biological program or something like that. And now, 176 00:14:03,399 --> 00:14:07,559 I, personally, I don't presume to know exactly what's going on here. 177 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,559 I don't have any kind of grand design for where these beings come from. 178 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:20,279 I don't have any particular you know, I don't I don't ascribe it to 179 00:14:20,559 --> 00:14:26,279 anything particularly malevolent or benevolent, you know, I kind of try to take 180 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:35,240 the twenty thousand foot view in general of all anomalous phenomena, and if anything, 181 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:41,559 for myself, if I really look at the range of modalities, right, 182 00:14:41,759 --> 00:14:46,799 and I really in talking to experiencers, I recognize how many of them 183 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,360 feel burdened by just the problem of saying like, oh, yeah, you 184 00:14:52,399 --> 00:14:58,279 know, I had a UAP encounter and then I know it seems weird, 185 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,159 but I heard something or I had a precognitive dream or things like this, 186 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:07,000 and these are really common, you know, phenomena that people have been reporting 187 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:13,600 for decades, sometimes millennia, and and you know, there's this common problem 188 00:15:13,679 --> 00:15:16,919 that people like like Jeff Kreipe will talk about where you know, the UFO 189 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:20,759 people don't want to be seen too close to the ghost people, and they 190 00:15:20,799 --> 00:15:22,519 don't want to be seen too close to the CRYPTI people, or they will 191 00:15:22,559 --> 00:15:28,759 be people because everybody's afraid of losing credibility. But in fact, there does 192 00:15:28,799 --> 00:15:31,960 seem to be a lot more overlap, especially in terms of like the people 193 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,559 that are actually seeing this stuff or experiencing this stuff, you know. And 194 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:39,440 so I think that you know, we if we can take a step back 195 00:15:39,879 --> 00:15:43,960 and just choose not to kind of edit out the stuff that's inconvenient to deal 196 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,279 with, we might have a better picture moving forward. I agree totally with 197 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:54,919 that. And I actually had a you know. I mean, I I've 198 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:58,440 had a poulter Geist. There's no other thing that I can think to call 199 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:02,679 it experience, and I know that it really happened. I saw it with 200 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:04,879 my own eyes, and I've talked about it a few times. I'm not 201 00:16:04,879 --> 00:16:08,559 going to get into it right now, but I have talked about I've had 202 00:16:10,159 --> 00:16:12,279 but for years after it happened, I said, no one will ever believe 203 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:17,720 that happened. You know, it's just absolutely crazy. So I know there's 204 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:22,679 this is what I know. I know that we know very little, you 205 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,000 know, and I think that we know a very small amount of what is 206 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:32,039 going on around us at all times, and we just you know, in 207 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:37,639 our spectrum and all our senses and even equipment, all the equipment senses can't 208 00:16:37,679 --> 00:16:41,279 even get everything that's going on. So I do believe there's a lot of 209 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:48,679 mysteries to be solved. Here's here's a question right after the bat sure from 210 00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:52,279 Mary Grace, Uh, does Jay feel he was tagged from the time he 211 00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:56,639 lived in the haunted house? She actually grew up in won two from ages 212 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,840 three to seven. Well, that's an interesting question, thanks, Mary Grace. 213 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:06,640 You know, I I think that there are some interesting theories along those 214 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,240 lines, some interesting hypotheses. You know, people like Gary Nolan have been 215 00:17:11,279 --> 00:17:15,480 doing a lot of studies on the brains of experiencers and looking right the ways 216 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:22,039 that that that that the caudate and the cadate nucleus and other areas might be 217 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:30,720 affected, either affected by the incidents themselves or common characteristics that that seemed to 218 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:34,920 be happening among some experiencers at the very least, and using experiencer in a 219 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:40,359 broadway, right, not just UAP experiencers, but people that have had animalst 220 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:44,839 experiences of kind of a wide variety right now. You know, for me, 221 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:51,000 there's one hypothesis along those lines that does does tend to make some sense, 222 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:53,480 which is that you know, what I do see is that a lot 223 00:17:53,519 --> 00:18:00,039 of people when they've had an animals experience that that is a little bit frightening, 224 00:18:00,519 --> 00:18:04,359 you know, that has some some shock to it as a youngster, 225 00:18:06,039 --> 00:18:11,400 that those people often tend to have more experiences overall later in life. And 226 00:18:12,279 --> 00:18:18,079 nobody knows exactly why that might be, but you know, from from directing 227 00:18:18,079 --> 00:18:22,000 the experience or group myself. I talk to thousands of experiencers, and you 228 00:18:22,039 --> 00:18:26,160 know, I do see common characteristics among some folks. And one thing that 229 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:30,599 I do see is that maybe not necessarily tagged, but I'm reminded a little 230 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,680 bit of like if somebody grows up in like Florida, right, or if 231 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,799 somebody somebody grows up in an environment where there are more predators, be they 232 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:42,799 alligators, do they snakes in the grass? Whatever you're looking at? You 233 00:18:42,839 --> 00:18:47,519 know, those those people that grow up in environments like that tend to kind 234 00:18:47,559 --> 00:18:52,799 of like have a slightly different, uh kind of evolution of their peripheral vision, 235 00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:56,160 you know what I mean. They get used to taking advantage of their 236 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:02,119 peripheral vision and looking for signs and things like that. Right Whereas like whereas 237 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:06,599 like I grew up in Ohio, I grew up in Indiana, I'm not 238 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,200 looking around for you know, snakes, or I'm not used to like looking 239 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:15,279 around at the water for disturbances when I'm walking, you know, near a 240 00:19:15,319 --> 00:19:18,400 pond or a river or something like that. But other people that I know 241 00:19:18,559 --> 00:19:22,880 absolutely are right, And so I do wonder if there because we're in such 242 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:30,079 a period of development as as as youth. And you know, I, 243 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:34,920 for example, had I kind of took all of this in in a way 244 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:41,319 that I wasn't super frightened by the Poultergeist activity in some ways because I didn't 245 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,680 quite know that it wasn't supposed to exist, if that makes sense, Because 246 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:49,480 at that kind of an age, at like six seven years old, whatever 247 00:19:49,559 --> 00:19:53,480 happens to you is what happens to you, and kind of everything that you 248 00:19:53,559 --> 00:19:56,200 experience is kind of like for the first time. You might go to a 249 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:00,359 wedding for the first time at that age, you might go to a funeral, 250 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,839 you might have you know, you go to school, you go to 251 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,000 kindergarten for the first time. And so I was just kind of taking it 252 00:20:07,039 --> 00:20:10,960 all in, and I do wonder, you know, if if there's a 253 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,880 situation like what Mary Grace was saying, where you're not necessarily tagged, but 254 00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:21,920 you're still learning and developing as a kid, and so you start to if 255 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,119 there's something that's scary that's in your environment, or something shocking, or something 256 00:20:26,519 --> 00:20:30,400 that isn't kind of like the edge periphery that you recognize you might need to 257 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:36,079 pay attention to for some reason, whether your brain kind of develops in that 258 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:41,640 direction in terms of like an extended sense perception as somebody like Kay Randall May 259 00:20:41,759 --> 00:20:45,000 or other people might think, does that make sense? Very very good? 260 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,839 So there was another question that came up here, someone wants you to elaborate 261 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,279 just a little bit and if you don't mind, you know, just a 262 00:20:53,319 --> 00:21:00,039 little short, you know, idea of what your experience was. And I 263 00:21:00,079 --> 00:21:03,240 think she means the Poultergeist type of situation. Did you see like objects move 264 00:21:03,319 --> 00:21:07,279 things like that? You could you know, yeah, well, I mean, 265 00:21:07,519 --> 00:21:11,599 okay, so the first experience that happened in that haunted house, for 266 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:17,799 example, was it was actually I didn't experience the very first thing. It 267 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,759 was my mom and my and my father, and that we moved into the 268 00:21:21,799 --> 00:21:26,599 house on kind of the first day. A bunch of my dad's old kind 269 00:21:26,599 --> 00:21:30,960 of book boxes and maybe some of my mom's book boxes got taken down to 270 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:33,960 the basement. They were they were loaded in last into the moving truck, 271 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,400 and they were kind of bracing our mattresses right, which is a pretty common 272 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,400 strategy when you're moving. So the books, the heavy book boxes came out 273 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:47,160 on hand hand trucks and got lowered down into the basement. So there are 274 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,920 these big pillars of heavy book boxes stacked up, you know, as pillars 275 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,200 in the basement. The next morning, my mom goes downstairs into the basement 276 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:03,559 and she sees that those pillars of heavy boxes had been rearranged in like a 277 00:22:03,599 --> 00:22:07,079 checkerboard pattern over the course of the basement floor, right, and she freaked 278 00:22:07,079 --> 00:22:11,920 out. She knew that my dad. She had woken up with my dad. 279 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:17,319 My dad hadn't gone down there yet. They they talked about it a 280 00:22:17,319 --> 00:22:19,640 bit, according to my mom, and we're talking to each other saying, 281 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,759 like, you know, did somebody did somebody else have keys to the house 282 00:22:22,839 --> 00:22:26,359 as somebody trying to mess with us, you know, something along those lines. 283 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,960 And then later that day, my mom reported kind of going out into 284 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:37,319 the backyard via the back door off of the kitchen, and she was only 285 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:41,200 out for a brief amount of time. She came back in. Nobody else 286 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,519 had gone in or out, And when she came back in, the oven 287 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,480 was turned the oven and stove was turned all the way up full blast, 288 00:22:48,559 --> 00:22:52,640 and the and the oven door was open, and she just sees, she 289 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,960 exclaimed, she said that at that moment she just had this kind of like 290 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:02,240 cognitive flip in a way, and that and that she immediately kind of flipped 291 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:08,759 over and said to nobody and whatever that was. At the same time he 292 00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:14,400 stopped that this is my house now, you can't do that, all right, 293 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,039 And so that was that was her first experience there. And then for 294 00:23:18,079 --> 00:23:25,200 me, I think I don't remember her kind of talking that out to me 295 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:30,079 back then. However, I do remember that there was a fair amount of 296 00:23:30,319 --> 00:23:33,839 culture geist phenomena in that. Like I would be, say, sitting at 297 00:23:34,599 --> 00:23:41,839 the coffee table in front of the TV, and I would have like a 298 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:44,599 cereal bowl in front of me, right, and I'd be watching TV, 299 00:23:44,759 --> 00:23:48,400 and the cereal bowl would kind of zip over about a foot or something like 300 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,559 that without without anybody touching it. My mom would would, she recalled much 301 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:59,200 later for some reason, she doesn't understand why, even she kind of blocked 302 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,640 it out for a while. That choosed to reach for her car keys on 303 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:04,759 the kitchen counter and they would kind of like jump out from under her hand 304 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:10,519 as she was reaching for them. Right, So situations like that would happen. 305 00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:12,000 I would I'd wake up in the middle of the night and like my 306 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:17,160 toys would be kind of like out in the middle of the floor, there'd 307 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,400 be all there'd be other moments where like you'd hear like a knock in the 308 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,480 wall, in the wall, not on the wall, but in the wall, 309 00:24:23,839 --> 00:24:29,599 and then somehow there would be a knock and it would take your attention 310 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:33,759 over here, and then when you look back, some objects would have been 311 00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:38,000 rearranged where you were just looking, which was like a pretty That was actually 312 00:24:38,079 --> 00:24:42,279 the thing that was kind of most scary to me in a way that when 313 00:24:42,319 --> 00:24:48,839 I saw something being kind of like seemingly instantaneously reordered without any kind of sound 314 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:55,039 or without seeing anything, that was pretty freaky to me in a lot of 315 00:24:55,039 --> 00:25:00,559 ways. And and some of that phenomena could happen in pretty elaborate at ways, 316 00:25:00,559 --> 00:25:07,759 pretty much instantaneously, which I still don't really understand how that's entirely possible. 317 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,799 Yeah, Yeah, Like like I say, it's uh, there's so 318 00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:17,720 many, Uh, there's so many things that happen that we that have an 319 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,279 answer. There is an answer for them, we just don't know what it 320 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:27,240 is. That's right. So here's another question here what experiencers Jay has talked 321 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:33,240 to. I'm thinking, I understand, do you feel like these people are 322 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:40,039 legit that you speak with a lot of them. Well, well, I 323 00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:44,920 think it's probably important to mention that I co founded a group called the Experiencer 324 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,920 Group. It's online at at people can find it by searching the Experiencer Group, 325 00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:56,680 or it's at www dot four Experiencers four experiencers dot com, and it's 326 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:02,599 a it's a private member's site, and it's pay what you wish. People 327 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:07,640 can pay absolutely nothing if they'd like to. Dedicated to support curiosity and community 328 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:11,039 for people who've lived through anomalous events of any and all kinds. So it's 329 00:26:11,079 --> 00:26:15,039 not just you ap or haunting experience here, as we're talking about people that 330 00:26:15,079 --> 00:26:19,319 have had out of body experiences, near death experiences, precognition. It's a 331 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:26,160 wide range because what we've noticed over time is that people that experience one modality 332 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,079 like we were just talking about often go on to experience something else later on. 333 00:26:30,799 --> 00:26:34,680 So through that I co founded that with a guy named Stuart Davis and 334 00:26:34,759 --> 00:26:41,359 was kristin Blackburn. During the kind of lockdown period of the pandemic we've been 335 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:49,599 working on Kristen and I a series of confidential meetup groups for experiencers that were 336 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,640 some of them were kind of more oriented towards meetup group stuff by Zoom, 337 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:59,160 and some were definitely more in the vein of kind of like a support group 338 00:26:59,319 --> 00:27:06,480 situation for people that had had more traumatic experiences with the phenomenon. And we 339 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:11,200 just basically what it came came from is that Kristen and I at the time, 340 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:18,119 we were both working as assistants behind the scenes on the members site for 341 00:27:18,319 --> 00:27:22,839 the historian Richard Dolan right for his Richard Dolan members site, and so we 342 00:27:22,839 --> 00:27:27,319 were both kind of filtering in a lot of mail. We were looking at 343 00:27:27,319 --> 00:27:33,079 a lot of inboxes. Richard was just getting flooded with mail, like to 344 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,920 anywhere on the site where you could submit anything, and he was overwhelmed. 345 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,559 And so one of the things that we were doing on the back end is 346 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:47,759 that there were generalized inboxes towards the site, and we were looking at just 347 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:52,839 dozens and dozens of cases of people writing in talking about their experiences and it's 348 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,440 not and it wasn't, and we just recognized that, you know, Kristen 349 00:27:57,519 --> 00:28:03,279 had had her own experiences, I'd had my own experiences, and we recognized 350 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,599 I we both did, that there was no place really for this kind of 351 00:28:08,599 --> 00:28:12,160 information to go. In a lot of ways, and there were no there 352 00:28:12,279 --> 00:28:17,000 was not really a great place in many ways for a lot of experiences to 353 00:28:17,039 --> 00:28:21,720 talk to each other, you know, there there were limited resources. There 354 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,799 are a couple of places like Opus or zero and things like that, but 355 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:30,920 we recognized that having like a private environment for people to talk with each other 356 00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:37,200 was important. So through that work, I recognized that that almost all of 357 00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:41,799 the I mean, like the vast majority of the experiencers that I've ever talked 358 00:28:41,839 --> 00:28:48,240 to in that kind of situation are very legit. Because one thing is is 359 00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:53,640 that I've seen that very few fraudsters, if you want to put it that 360 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:59,480 way, want to go into an environment where they're talking to a bunch of 361 00:28:59,559 --> 00:29:03,559 legitic experiencers. It doesn't really happen, you know. And so there's that, 362 00:29:04,039 --> 00:29:08,720 and then there's also the aspect where in general, I'm talking to experiencers 363 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:14,000 in private, I'm talking to them through the private site, or I'm talking 364 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,000 to them in my direct messages and things like this. And for the most 365 00:29:18,039 --> 00:29:23,720 part, people that join the experiencer group are people that can't really talk about 366 00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:29,640 this stuff online elsewhere, or they don't care to. That's often because that's 367 00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:33,599 often because they have jobs where this would be a huge liability. So I'm 368 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:36,799 talking about people. There are lawyers, people that are doctors, people that 369 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,680 are involved in electrical engineering and software design, people that have designed objects that 370 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,440 we all carry around in our pockets. And they have the kinds of jobs 371 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:51,200 where they where they need to be taken seriously. Right. And and in 372 00:29:51,279 --> 00:29:56,559 some of these situations, people work in a situation where this topic really can't 373 00:29:56,599 --> 00:30:00,759 come up. You know, I know one one person that has a very 374 00:30:00,839 --> 00:30:06,039 high position and an international insurance company. You can imagine why they don't want 375 00:30:06,079 --> 00:30:11,559 to talk about their experiences online elsewhere. Right. And so often when I 376 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,160 when I hear from those kinds of people, when I and I hear similar 377 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:21,559 stories, right, I hear from these high functioning people that have that have 378 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,400 spent a lot of time, you know, on their careers, and it 379 00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:30,519 usually these experiences were something that they had to work through, that they had 380 00:30:30,519 --> 00:30:33,079 to process, and they had to integrate in their lives before they were able 381 00:30:33,119 --> 00:30:37,319 to kind of reapproach, you know, their careers. And sometimes they had 382 00:30:37,359 --> 00:30:41,400 to do it despite they had to do those careers in spite of what had 383 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:47,160 happened with them, right, And you know this this common situation where somebody 384 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,119 has to get up in the morning and put on their pants and go to 385 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:56,759 work even though something that wild has happened very recently in their life. You 386 00:30:56,759 --> 00:31:02,400 know, though, when you hear from those specific people talking about those specific 387 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:07,000 issues, it becomes crystal clear how legitimate they are. Well, you know 388 00:31:07,079 --> 00:31:11,839 when I've said this on the show a number of times, and like, 389 00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:18,240 I can't imagine having some of the experiences that I've heard people talk about, 390 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:23,319 for instance, being taken on a craft and examined or whatever and have absolutely 391 00:31:23,359 --> 00:31:30,519 no control, can't move or whatever, and have no control when they're coming 392 00:31:30,559 --> 00:31:36,759 back. I can't imagine functioning in life. I can't imagine putting the pants 393 00:31:36,799 --> 00:31:40,880 on and going to work. I would just all I can imagine is being 394 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:45,240 huddled in a corner and whimpering. You know. So, I, you 395 00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:48,240 know, if these things are really happening, I have to say, you 396 00:31:48,279 --> 00:31:49,920 know, my hats off to those people that can take it, because I 397 00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,200 don't know how. I don't know how I mean, And for me, 398 00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:59,319 I think one of the hardest things would be is that I want people to 399 00:31:59,359 --> 00:32:02,160 know about it, but who the hell would believe me? You know? 400 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:07,039 Yeah? Is that the type of thing that you hear or yeah, I 401 00:32:07,559 --> 00:32:10,279 hear about that often. And I mean one of the things is that, 402 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,240 you know, there has been a lot that's helped in terms of normalizing these 403 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:22,279 conversations and destigmatizing these conversations. You know Leslie, Leslie Kane and Ralph Blumenthal 404 00:32:22,319 --> 00:32:28,039 and Helene Cooper's original twenty seventeen article on the front page of the New York 405 00:32:28,039 --> 00:32:31,319 Times, that whole series of articles. You know, everybody in the field 406 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:37,640 knows that how much that did in terms of us reaching a new chapter in 407 00:32:37,759 --> 00:32:42,960 terms of legitimacy and in terms of normalizing these conversations in the public eye, 408 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,319 but also in terms of like how we can talk to each other and how 409 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:50,240 other people, like in our family groups and our friends approach us right. 410 00:32:50,839 --> 00:32:57,200 And and I see that continuing. I see that continuing with situations like this 411 00:32:57,359 --> 00:33:02,400 house UAP hearing that you and I were both at right because I I have 412 00:33:02,599 --> 00:33:08,359 seen since then people coming into Zoom meetings for me having private conversations with people 413 00:33:08,359 --> 00:33:10,920 where they say, oh, you know, like it's so and so I 414 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,640 work with them or or my mom or this person they saw that they saw 415 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:19,880 in the news, the house UAP hearing happening, and then they approached me 416 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:22,240 because you know, I was always I was always the one that they looked 417 00:33:22,279 --> 00:33:25,079 at a little weird. And then I got to have this conversation, you 418 00:33:25,079 --> 00:33:29,799 know, and it kind of opened something up. And I think that you 419 00:33:29,799 --> 00:33:32,319 know, from from you and for a lot of people in the audience today, 420 00:33:32,759 --> 00:33:37,960 you know, listening to this even in the future, even you don't 421 00:33:37,039 --> 00:33:42,599 have to necessarily have had your own experiences to be able to appreciate the legitimizing 422 00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:46,000 effect that that stuff can have within our family groups and within our relationships, 423 00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:50,759 you know, because so many of us, you know, they we look 424 00:33:50,839 --> 00:33:54,640 like these we've we get used to growing up looking like these weird hobbyists that 425 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:59,440 have these strange interests. And then you know, as we get older, 426 00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,119 it's like, oh, you know, you have more people turning around and 427 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,039 saying, oh, gosh, I guess you're onto something. I guess you're 428 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:09,960 right, how about that? Right? Yeah, I had I've had a 429 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:14,199 little bit of that. When it comes to the UFL thing, A lot 430 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:15,840 of people like saying, oh, yeah, well, hey, the government's 431 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:21,280 actually looking at this up. I asked that people when they want to ask 432 00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,960 questions to put in caps, but this one right here, thank you. 433 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,960 I wanted to post this question because I understand it. What have these people 434 00:34:31,079 --> 00:34:37,320 done that led to this happening? And that is probably just a big question 435 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,119 mark, right. I don't think it's anything that people have done, but 436 00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:44,800 what is your opinion? I'm not sure in terms of if we're talking about 437 00:34:45,119 --> 00:34:52,559 I'm taking that to me and this person was referring to to case like contact 438 00:34:52,559 --> 00:34:57,440 cases reductions or in deductions or something like that. That yeah, okay, 439 00:34:57,519 --> 00:35:01,800 so along those lines, I'm not sure. I don't know exactly what that 440 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:07,239 person has done or what they could have done differently. You know, a 441 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,920 lot of people have this kind of like have a bit of survivor guilt in 442 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:16,719 some ways related to these experiences, thinking like you know, like I went 443 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:21,320 through this, but like why me? Like what could have you know, 444 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,519 remorse or some kind of shame associated with it with thinking like, you know, 445 00:35:24,599 --> 00:35:29,280 what could I have done differently, and not just not wanting to talk 446 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,039 to somebody else about it, but just having a lot of body shame in 447 00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:37,239 relation to not having control of one's body or being taken against their will. 448 00:35:37,639 --> 00:35:40,360 You know, there's a lot of body shame that can be associated with that, 449 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:45,880 and which I completely understand, you know, one very personally. I 450 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:52,119 think that one thing in the situation like this that people could understand, you 451 00:35:52,159 --> 00:36:00,880 know, one aspect that that goes back and I find interesting and somewhat troubling 452 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:07,320 is that people going back to Bud Hopkins, John Mack and others pointed out 453 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:12,800 that this often happened in family lineages, and so there are often situations where 454 00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,840 somebody would have an experience and it would turn out that their mother or their 455 00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:22,440 uncle or aunts or even a grandparent had had a similar experience and it may 456 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:28,840 have had slightly different characteristics where the person processed it differently. And you know, 457 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,400 some people I've heard stories where some people say like, oh, I 458 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,599 got visited by orbs of light, you know, in the middle of the 459 00:36:35,679 --> 00:36:37,760 night, and I didn't understand what they were and I blacked out. And 460 00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,760 then they would hear from a mother or a grandparent saying like, I was 461 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,280 visited by angels and they looked like, you know, balls of light or 462 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,239 something like that. And so, you know, people have their own perceptual 463 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:52,920 filters, they have their own cultural filters that they put over these things. 464 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,360 And you know, and I'm not saying that you know, one is definitely 465 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:00,400 one or one's definitely the other. We have a broad range of of these, 466 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:06,239 you know, phenomena that people seem to be that people are definitely encountering, 467 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,039 and I guess the one thing that that seems to be a commonality among 468 00:37:10,119 --> 00:37:14,159 some is that, you know, we have to be doing a little bit 469 00:37:14,199 --> 00:37:19,679 more in terms of what my old friends Stewart Davis used to call and probably 470 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:23,400 still does, the genealogy of the strange, which is taking a thorough accounting 471 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,519 if we can when we can in terms of like looking at our family groups 472 00:37:28,559 --> 00:37:32,199 and thinking like who else in my family has this been happening to? Like 473 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:37,320 who can I talk to in my family? Does anybody else have any hints? 474 00:37:37,519 --> 00:37:40,440 Or does anybody else have any stories that kind of follow these lines, 475 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,159 because you know, when we kind of map out those webs, we might 476 00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:52,039 find nodes and data points that might not just you know, paint a more 477 00:37:52,159 --> 00:37:58,119 thorough a picture of the family unit that might make somebody feel more included, 478 00:37:58,639 --> 00:38:02,159 less alienated, no pun intended, but it might you know, it also 479 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:07,199 might be an occasion where where somebody can use that in a way to be 480 00:38:07,280 --> 00:38:14,320 able to normalize these conversations among their loved ones as well. M about that. 481 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,280 Well, you know, I think it's it is interesting. I've talked 482 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,719 to a couple of times about this, you know, as far as family 483 00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:29,599 members me being interested in UFOs and my other family members they could care less. 484 00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:31,960 I had a step sister that was actually in chat for a while here 485 00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:37,800 Heidi, who is us? You know? But my it's so funny though, 486 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,519 whenever I talk about this to my sister, and I know I'm getting 487 00:38:42,559 --> 00:38:45,320 totally off topic, but it just made me think of it is that you 488 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:49,119 know, it was like, uh, oh, what's for dinner? You 489 00:38:49,159 --> 00:38:52,440 know, I would show her the most profound thing or whatever, like the 490 00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,800 r L School interviews or something like that. Sure, oh that's you know, 491 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:59,119 what are we what are we doing next? You know, this is 492 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:00,920 just abs totally no interest in it, which is fine, you know, 493 00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:07,360 everyone has their own thing. But but I do appreciate her husband, who 494 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,639 has worked at Los Alamos Labs for years, who's a scientist, and he 495 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:15,159 has a very open mind to the fact that you know, we could be 496 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,719 visiting. So yeah, it could it could be you know, you know, 497 00:39:17,719 --> 00:39:22,480 I mean I love that that as someone in science has that And uh, 498 00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:28,719 this is an interesting question because I've never even pondered it myself. Why 499 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,320 it wants to know, have your I ever heard of someone being abducted with 500 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:39,599 their pets, dogs, et cetera. I've an interesting well, I it's 501 00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:44,679 interesting. On the experiencing group, we actually have like a like a sub 502 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:51,079 forum specifically for It's called I think animals and Anomalies, right, and uh, 503 00:39:51,159 --> 00:39:54,840 and it's specifically for cases where people have had, uh, you know, 504 00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:00,199 they noticed their their their loved animals, their pets, having an experience 505 00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,639 with them. And that's usually not in the case of something like an abduction 506 00:40:05,679 --> 00:40:10,320 experience. We're usually talking about something that is more along the lines of an 507 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:17,079 apparition or something that's more along the lines of what people processes as like spectral 508 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:22,559 or you know whatever that is, right, a ghost or some other kind 509 00:40:22,599 --> 00:40:28,119 of presence. And you know, I try to resist using terms like that 510 00:40:28,159 --> 00:40:31,760 because I don't really know what a ghost is. You know, I've I've 511 00:40:31,519 --> 00:40:37,199 I've I've known, you know, I was around apparitions when I was young, 512 00:40:37,599 --> 00:40:40,280 you know, but I still don't know whether that was like somebody that 513 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,039 died and came back, you know, I just don't. I don't know 514 00:40:44,079 --> 00:40:46,880 what it is. I don't know where they come. I don't I you 515 00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:52,280 know, could it it just be some other type of intelligence that lives in 516 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:58,000 some kind of other realm and you know, tries to pass themselves off here. 517 00:40:58,079 --> 00:41:00,920 I don't know who knows. We don't know, right that's a answer? 518 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:06,480 Is anything else right there? Yeah? Thank you? And I appreciate 519 00:41:06,519 --> 00:41:10,760 the fact this this is uh, this just adds to your credibility to have 520 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,079 that and I always thank you. Want to run away from someone that says 521 00:41:15,079 --> 00:41:20,079 they know what's going on, you know when it comes to this stuff, 522 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,599 you know, because I certainly don't. And it's what keeps me going is 523 00:41:24,639 --> 00:41:30,360 the curiosity of it. You know what it could possibly be. It's fascinating. 524 00:41:31,000 --> 00:41:35,360 I agree with you absolutely. I think the smartest people that we've had 525 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:39,199 in this field. You know that people like like Leslie and people like Jacques 526 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,960 Valet or John Keel or say like Diana Basualica. You could you could listen 527 00:41:45,039 --> 00:41:49,199 names all all darn day, and most most of those brightest names in the 528 00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:55,400 field, you know, they they go through their whole careers and recognize often 529 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,440 how much they don't know, you know, I think that that's one common 530 00:41:59,519 --> 00:42:02,320 character stick. You know. I remember that famous line of Jacques Lais where 531 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:06,079 he was like, I'm the only upologist that don't know, that doesn't know 532 00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:09,360 what's going on, you know, and and I love and I love that 533 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:13,559 line. You know, I'm paraphrasing a bit, but sorry, Jacques, 534 00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:15,159 But like, I think that that's a fantastic line, you know, and 535 00:42:15,199 --> 00:42:19,920 I think that it's appropriate. Yeah, I do think it's appropriate. Getting 536 00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:22,320 back to what you said there a few minutes ago before I went off on 537 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:29,719 my little tangent about my sister. The lines, the family lines, you 538 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:34,039 know, and I know this is just speculation, but why do you Oh 539 00:42:34,079 --> 00:42:37,519 my god, I can't believe it. Bobby's just posted the exact question I'm 540 00:42:37,559 --> 00:42:42,960 going to ask you. That was a good timing, Bobby, So do 541 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,320 you have any speculation why they may follow family lineages? That's just almost exactly 542 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:52,760 what I was gonna I'm going to ask you. Yeah, I again, 543 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:59,519 like I I I don't know. I'm not sure. And I've heard a 544 00:42:59,559 --> 00:43:05,920 lot of different hypotheses, you know, I've I've heard about, you know, 545 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,639 people the idea that that some of these beings might be tinkering around with 546 00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:16,199 with genetic lines, that they might be monitoring DNA or genetic lines in some 547 00:43:16,239 --> 00:43:22,519 way, shape or form, that they might be looking at how certain certain 548 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:29,440 adjustments or or certain you know, processes, and one body might move on 549 00:43:29,559 --> 00:43:32,400 to the next. And the reality is that I just I just don't know. 550 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:38,280 I don't know why. And I I think it's possible that that there's 551 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:44,159 that there are folks out there that that have exactly the right answer for why 552 00:43:44,159 --> 00:43:45,840 that is. But I'm certainly not one of them. I think that, 553 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:51,880 you know, just because I experienced something myself doesn't mean that I feel like 554 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:53,599 I have a mastery of the situation, you know what I mean? Like 555 00:43:54,039 --> 00:43:58,320 I use I use a computer. I use this computer every single day, 556 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,079 and and I if I had to fix it, I wouldn't know the first 557 00:44:01,119 --> 00:44:05,920 thing on how to do it, you know what I mean? Yeah, 558 00:44:05,199 --> 00:44:10,480 And so I I'm old enough to know how how little I know in a 559 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:15,159 lot of ways, I think. So I'm sorry if that's not if that's 560 00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,440 not a helpful answer. But all I know. All I know is that 561 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,440 that it does happen, you know, and that I think that it's important 562 00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:30,199 for people to recognize that that you know, people like you're talking about people 563 00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:35,400 are often okay with these these flying objects, but they're used to they're okay 564 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,199 with UFOs if they're like way off in the distance, right, if they're 565 00:44:38,559 --> 00:44:43,840 way up in the sky and you can and if you get a cool telescope 566 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:45,519 and you can look at them, or you got one of those psionics like 567 00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:49,599 infrared cams or something like that, you've got a fun piece of gear and 568 00:44:49,679 --> 00:44:52,639 you can take a look at it, and then that's you know, there's 569 00:44:52,679 --> 00:44:55,920 something that's between you and this object. Then that then oh, then okay, 570 00:44:55,960 --> 00:45:00,440 then I feel comfortable then in school, right, And I'm kinded of 571 00:45:00,559 --> 00:45:02,639 how George Knapp used to say, you know, oh yeah, I'd love 572 00:45:02,679 --> 00:45:07,679 to see a sasquatch. I'd love to see a sasquatch from about a hundred 573 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,559 yards away with a coffee cup in my hand and a nice big plate glass 574 00:45:10,599 --> 00:45:15,039 window between the two of us, you know, And I get that, 575 00:45:15,159 --> 00:45:19,559 I absolutely get that, you know, I understand why, why why people 576 00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:22,280 think that way. And then at the same time, it's we have too 577 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:29,599 many cases. There are just we have so many cases where people see, 578 00:45:30,239 --> 00:45:36,360 you know, what people have euphemistically called occupants or pilots or UFO knots or 579 00:45:36,559 --> 00:45:39,519 non human entities, aliens, grays, however you want to put it. 580 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,880 And I'm not prescribing anything on all of them. And it seems to be 581 00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:49,119 a wide range that people report in terms of what some of these beings might 582 00:45:49,159 --> 00:45:52,159 look like. But there, you know, there it. I'm sure that 583 00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:58,320 some of these craft are are kind of like drones or probably don't have anybodies 584 00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,320 in them at all. And then there's all these other cases. And you 585 00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:07,559 know, people like John Keel even fifty years ago, over fifty years ago, 586 00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:13,599 was railing about the kinds of ufologists that edited out in convenient details in 587 00:46:13,639 --> 00:46:16,719 the reports. And you know, he spent of like half of Operation Trojan 588 00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:22,599 Horse talking about the kinds of people that only wanted to edit in what was 589 00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:28,960 what made sense to them in terms of the phenomena. But I believe that 590 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,920 we absolutely can't do that any longer. We can't afford to be editing out 591 00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:37,360 and trying to edit the story to suit our needs or to suit our desires. 592 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:42,920 Right, if we're actually looking for answers, if we're really we really 593 00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,280 need to ask bigger questions, and we need and we need to resist the 594 00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:51,440 idea of throwing stuff in the trash can just because it doesn't make sense, 595 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:55,119 right, that's right, that's right. You know, I've spoken with a 596 00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:00,519 class swad of Switzerland. He's a leading you follow just there and I'm sorry 597 00:47:00,559 --> 00:47:05,239 of Sweden. And yeah, he's a great, great guy. He's a 598 00:47:05,320 --> 00:47:07,199 very nice guy. And so I've talked to him. I said, now, 599 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:14,360 what about people experiences or abductions or whatever? What's that like in there? 600 00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:17,280 And he said, you know, because he's always every day getting you 601 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:22,480 know, UFOs and you know reports and things. And he said, uh, 602 00:47:22,639 --> 00:47:28,360 one, I said one. And maybe, you know, maybe it's 603 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,679 in the society where they they things maybe happening, and people don't want to 604 00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:37,480 talk about it. There's the maybe no support and I'm the but the one 605 00:47:37,559 --> 00:47:40,719 that he did talk about sounded very, very credible. It was a police 606 00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:45,679 officer and his wife was taken away and the police office is she was raised 607 00:47:45,679 --> 00:47:47,880 off the bed and all this stuff. Uh and you know, and he 608 00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:54,840 really thinks there was definitely something going on. They the couple later got divorced, 609 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,400 and he talked to the copy years later and he said, yeah, 610 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:04,679 that really that was obs that really happened. You know. So what I'm 611 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,800 getting at though, why so much in the United States? Now, I 612 00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:13,400 know it's speculation I'm asking you to do, but it seems like there's a 613 00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,119 lot going on here. There's certainly a lot of people that claim to have 614 00:48:17,519 --> 00:48:24,400 something happening here. Yeah, I think that. I think that why the 615 00:48:24,519 --> 00:48:30,000 United States is there are a couple of issues there. First, within the 616 00:48:30,039 --> 00:48:35,079 Experiencer group, I get a lot of accounts from people that are elsewhere. 617 00:48:36,159 --> 00:48:39,280 We have members that are from Indonesia, we have members from Japan, we 618 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:45,079 have members from all over the EU, the UK, South America. I 619 00:48:45,119 --> 00:48:50,039 think one thing that's important to recognize is that we still even though technology is 620 00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:53,280 so advanced now, and it's getting more advanced every day. I just I've 621 00:48:53,360 --> 00:49:02,880 saw just earlier today a close to live translation device where somebody could just use 622 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:08,920 a webcam and with only a slight delay could like live translate their own something 623 00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:14,119 that approximated their own voice into other languages, you know, for others. 624 00:49:14,159 --> 00:49:19,000 And so we're getting closer and closer every day, but we should still recognize 625 00:49:19,039 --> 00:49:24,199 that that there are a lot of reports that we're not hearing because we are 626 00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:31,000 listening to English reports right and so I'm reminded, you know, you might 627 00:49:31,039 --> 00:49:35,719 know Georgio Piacenza and some of the other folks that have been an icer and 628 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,199 things like that, that there are tons and tons of reports coming from South 629 00:49:39,239 --> 00:49:45,280 America all the time, you know, and and they and there's been a 630 00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:49,480 bias, like James Fox talked about with in Moments of Contact, in terms 631 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:53,880 of like this kind of like almost some would call it like a classist kind 632 00:49:53,920 --> 00:50:00,199 of bias against you know, rural people, whether they're in the United States 633 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:04,559 or whether there's someplace like Brazil or whatever, you know, where where their 634 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,400 their accounts aren't aren't being listened to, or people might not be listened to 635 00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:12,519 just because they speak a different language than somebody else. And part of that 636 00:50:12,679 --> 00:50:16,599 is just not hearing about the reports in general. Right, So I think 637 00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:22,119 that there's there's absolutely a situation that way, because we hear from cases like 638 00:50:22,159 --> 00:50:25,280 the Aerial School case in nineteen ninety four, right, And I know that 639 00:50:25,599 --> 00:50:30,480 you are really love that case. I love that case. Yeah, yeah, 640 00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,199 And I know you and I both have a common friend, Randy. 641 00:50:32,599 --> 00:50:37,400 You know, Randall Nickerson did an amazing job with that film. He's an 642 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:42,559 incredible human being that I talked too often, and you know, people like 643 00:50:42,679 --> 00:50:45,400 him will point out that the aerial case is not is not is by no 644 00:50:45,519 --> 00:50:50,599 means the only case that happens in that area. You know, Africa is 645 00:50:51,119 --> 00:50:57,519 there. I mean it's a huge continent and there. We still need more 646 00:50:57,599 --> 00:51:01,679 researchers that are looking into this from kind of more anthropological or even a more 647 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:07,039 kind of uh or or or even closer mindset, right, we need we 648 00:51:07,079 --> 00:51:13,639 need so many more researchers from so many different areas, because I think it's 649 00:51:13,679 --> 00:51:16,960 not a situation where cases are only happening in the United States. I think 650 00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:22,239 it's a situation where, you know, ufology needs to grow from just being 651 00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:25,840 a bunch of kind of English speaking men talking to each other. And I 652 00:51:27,519 --> 00:51:30,199 think we need more a lot more women. I think we need a lot 653 00:51:30,239 --> 00:51:35,559 more more people of all backgrounds from everywhere to really approach this issue from as 654 00:51:35,599 --> 00:51:40,239 many different angles, and that we can't even necessarily anticipate, right, right, 655 00:51:40,599 --> 00:51:45,239 So, I can't believe how fast this hour has been going by. 656 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,239 Uh do you can you give out your you know, I will put your 657 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,599 for the person listening or watching. I'll put down in the text below and 658 00:51:52,840 --> 00:52:00,599 YouTube et cetera. So if you could say that website and and you say 659 00:52:00,639 --> 00:52:02,639 that people can join, they don't have to donate, they can if they 660 00:52:02,679 --> 00:52:07,920 want to. And it sounds like you are offering a really good service here. 661 00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,760 I'd like to, you know, make sure people know where that is, 662 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:15,039 so that'll be in the show notes. And what's sure if you want 663 00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:19,920 to just put it out there, sure. Yeah. Again, it's the 664 00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:27,360 Experiencer Group and it's at four experiencers dot com or you can just Google up 665 00:52:27,400 --> 00:52:31,119 the Experiencer group. And again it's for people that have had animals experiences of 666 00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:37,320 any and all kinds. And there's just three questions that we ask so that 667 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,639 we make sure that we don't have any trolls or bots in the community. 668 00:52:39,599 --> 00:52:44,719 Yeah, and then and then it usually takes maybe about five to seven days 669 00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:49,360 to process because we do one batch of applicants per week. And then folks 670 00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:52,119 can walk around. We've got support groups, we've got book clubs, we've 671 00:52:52,159 --> 00:52:57,320 got a dream study group, we have current events, Ask Me Anything sessions, 672 00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,239 all sorts of different situations, all sorts of excuses for experiencers to get 673 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:05,320 together, compare notes, and find community. So thanks for having me on 674 00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,639 the show. Thanks so much, I really appreciate it, and now I'm 675 00:53:08,679 --> 00:53:13,199 sure we'll stay in touch, all right, wonderful, thank you, all 676 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:16,840 right everyone, so remember that next week is the Tribute to Calvin Parker with 677 00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:22,440 Irena Scott and Philip Naniel. Thank you so much and remember to keep your 678 00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,599 eyes to the sky. As soon as I can find the file right here,