What is crack Black and fellow thermonuclear a efforts. I am Damp Valley coming at you with another mail bag episode. Before we get started the usual reminders, please remember to rate, review and subscribe to us wherever you're consuming us. Subscribe on YouTube. We've been very stagnant with growth over there, so hitlight comment, help the algorithm love us back. I have no idea why our views are just plummeting and we're not growing as quickly as we were before, so help us continue to grow there. If you have not subscribed to us on Apple or Spotify, do that. If you've not written a review or rated us and either one of those platforms, please do that as well. We ask you at the top of every single podcast. I know everyone who listens hasn't done that yet, So if you have done all those things, though, we really do appreciate word of mouth recommendations. Tell people about us. Let us know that you've told people about us. Tag us on Twitter, shout us out on Twitter. Quote something we've said on Twitter, or introduce something from a podcast. To clip for something we've said or I've said on Twitter, I will retweet engage it to start any sort of discussion and just continue to help us put our good name out there. I would say also join our discord. We're not growing as much on there either. Where are all you people? We're heading into the playoffs. This podcast doesn't suck that much. Discord link is in the YouTube and podcasts descriptions, and follow us on all the socials. They're on your screen on YouTube. They're also in the podcast description as well. At Hardwood Knocks on Instagram, on TikTok and Twitter. Excuse me at Hardwood Underscore Knox on Instagram. Also, before we get started, shout out to the Sacramento Kings for ending their sixteen year playoff droute. That's just super exciting. I am happy for all my social media Kings fans, friends who now get to cover who have gotten to cover good basketball, and I've just covered so much shitty basketball and things is happening behind the scenes for so many years. This is great for them. So that's really gonna be fun to see the Sacramental Kings under the playoffs this year. The West playoff bracket is going to be an absolute bloodbath as well, Like that's going to be absolutely upsurd. Also throw a quick shout out here too to my father in law. Totally off topic, but it's my podcast, our podcast. Sorry's Minding Grass podcast. He had open heart surgery just last week. He's been dealing with some heart episodes. He has a history of part problems. He's done everything right over the past decade since his last heart attack, very young. We're all very worried. It's why the podcast volume has been down. It's why I haven't brought on guests when Grant isn't really recording with me, because I can't really commit to these times. I was worried I was gonna have to cancel some of our scheduled podcasts on a whim, so shout out to him. I was very worried and stressed and just disengaged. Not sure anyone could tell, but it's always a relief when something like that happens. He's good peeps, and I've known him for fifteen years. I was really surprised at how much the news impacted me. Not that I didn't like him, but I was like very affected by it. And I guess that makes sense. You've known him for fifteen years. So I am elated that he is now home out of the hospital. There were some complications, which is why this extended. We are hoping it's smooth sailing from here. The surgeon was very happy, but not really to give an explanation. Just want to give him a shout out because I'm super stoked about that. We can now get into this mailback about three hours later, three minutes later actually though. We will begin with a question from this is why you should join our discord. By the way, I'm going to try and do more Twitter mailbags. I think that's how people discover us a little bit more. But if you have a question, you could throw it in the YouTube comments aren't really the best way, but you could try YouTube comments dms on Twitter, but join our discord get your questions in there. We will begin with it's Alan, says Jade McDaniels. Will be restricted free agency in twenty twenty four, with three presumable max contracts already on the roster and aunt slash cat slash Rudy. How can the Wolves expect to match if a team offers him a max contract? Does the choy has become keeping him or towns or is this where bird rights let you go over the cap to keep him? I think it's a great question, and we can answer part of it. First is just yes, you can go over the cap to keep him, Like that's what your bird, your bird rights allow you to do. So they don't have to worry in fury about affording Jade McDaniels whatever his offer sheet is. And he might even sign an extension by the way this summer to where they don't even let him hit restricted free agency. But I don't want to touch on a few things here. Let's first get into the cost of keeping him, and then the fact that he's possibly going to be a star at this point, the type of player who might be able to crack the All Star conversation, he's going to be expensive, and like let's even start there. Forget about the cost of keeping him for a second. This is someone who I haven't gone through. All defense teams. Grant and I are going to do those this week for next week. We're gonna record them Friday, lock on our choices then and that'll go live probably early next week. I think Jane McDaniels will make an All Defense team for me. It's going to be so hard. If he's eligible. I think he might be eligible at guard, so that could help as well. But we all know what he can do defensively, he's just defending one through four. He can defend the point of attack. He can go after just the other team's best offensive player, regardless almost of what position that player actually man's that's actually huge. His offense has just come so far. I think there's still a part of me that wishes when you look at him, that he would take more threes, but he's hitting them so efficiently, basically since the trade deadlines. It's around February thirteen. The roster wasn't sort of disarray in their first game after the trade deadlines. I filtered that out. So since that February thirteen, he is shooting forty three point five percent from three on four attempts per game. I'd like to see that number tick up closer where it would be like seven or eight attempts per thirty six minutes. However, when you look at everything that he is now able to do on the ball, we're talking about someone who has busted out a step back jumper every now and then. He's nine of seventeen this year on step back jumpers and five or nine from three. That's not a huge sample, but that's still good enough. During this eighteen game stretch, he's shooting fifty eight plus percent on drives well, actually taking more drives per game. You can see it in the way that he's attacking to he's more confident in his handle, his handles a little bit tighter and more versatile. There can still be some passes or just lost balls that you don't you know, it's just awkward at some points because it's not really his natural state to be slowed down. Let's go run, pick and roll or what Let's go after these methodical assaults you want. He wants to make quicker decisions. That's where he's at his best. But he showed the ability to saddle himself with more deliberate decision making, and that is huge. He's hit turnaround jumpers, like we're talking about somebody's really going to go to work, go one on one against somebody. It's not maybe an option that you want in crunch time, but he's been able to do that. He is during this stretch specifically too. We've even seen him honeing on his floater a little bit, and so that's like, or be more efficient on his float I shouldn't say hone in. That's just this is a monstrous development. This is someone who can just do so much more on offense now, and even look some of the do you want him taking these all these turnaround jumpers? I mean no, and he's not. Again, he's not taking a ton of them, but the fact that that's in his bag in addition to being able to hit some of these difficult layups getting to the basket, you maybe like to see him draw more fouls, but that's just going to be inherently tough. When you look at the structure of the Wolves offense, do you think having Mike Conley and I'll eat Crow there? I was so I've been wrong about basically everything Minnesota Timbers. I thought the Rudy Gobert trade was a home run. And while things are rounding into form, they are not the regular season juggernaut I expect them to be. And then I eviscerated them for the Mike Conley trade, and it's clear that there was something that it can be measured when you're watching them play and some of the numbers, but there was just something instinctual about that trade that really worked and helped this team. It feels like emotionally based off if you go back and look at some of the recent postgame comments or just some of the comments that Chris Finch has made about the connectivity of the roster on offense and not having defensive liability. So I'm just gonna eat Crow on that one too. Mike Conley has helped Jade McDaniels as well. But when you look at what Jane McDaniels is now able to do, I mean during the stretch from basically a quarter of the season at this point, fifteen and a half points per game and shooting the three ball efficiently and being able to generate more of your own offense. We're not talking about someone who's going to have you know, let's say eighty percent of his baskets go unassisted. But look, during this stretch, like we've seen twenty seven percent roughly of his baskets go unassisted. That is just a huge uptick. It's an uptick previously over what he was doing the season before that. But if you go back and just look at sort of previous seasons, that's going to be a huge that's by far and away a career high share for him there. I mean, just last season fewer than twenty percent of his made baskets were going unassisted, and so to have that element, in addition to what he's able to do on defense, you're looking at someone who you could say, can he be the Wolves? Is like number two point five option on offense. I mean it's the number three option because you have Towns when he's you have Anthony Edwards and then Mike con Lead I don't know if fits in there. They try to get Rudy Go Barmore post touches. Naz Reid by the way, just talking about busting out a floor game, he's been incredible too, But he looks like Jane McDaniels looks like at his peak that he could be the third best player, the third best offensive player on an excellent team, and then the best defensive player on that excellent team. And so that really when you combine those two, we're talking about someone who could be the second best player on a title contender, or you know, if you want to say two point five best player, like, there's going to be some push and pull there. Maybe you know they're sort of vacillating for a position where in this case they would be between Towns and Jane McDaniels is the second overall best player. I who were talking about peak Wolves together for the whole season. We're towns that missed so much time with injury. That is a monstrous development for Minnesota because of how ham strung they are asset wise. And I wasn't necessarily critical of this, but I did say it was a gamble that you effectively decided that Jaden McDaniels was worth two first round picks and maybe a little bit more in the Rudy Gobert trade, but you included more draft selections because you didn't want to move him. That looks like it was by far and away the right call, because I'm not going to set an over under and bet on him making an All Star team. But you can't rule it out at this point. This is year three for Jade McDaniels. We're talking about someone who's still only twenty two years old, won't turn twenty three until September, basically the start of next season. There's growth, then further growth that could be caked in. Is this someone who's just going to become even better passer we've even seen Look, he's made some strides there too, like he just looks more comfortable finding the bigs in the offense now and the way that he's able to figure out how and where to operate within the finds of the wolves offensive space thing they do. They can do a good job space on the floor, but when you're changing up your liners where sometimes he's on the floor and there's one big or there's two bigs, and we've seen even more of that where naz Reid is a part of those dual big combinations. He's just such a smarter and more polished offensive player and this is a star sort of hiding him playing side. At this point, I still don't think nationally it's been recognized. It's sort of this quaint cute story. Jane McDaniels might make an all defensive team, and look how good he's been for the Timberwolves. The real barometer here and we'll get into now this question from more of it of its alan when he gets his extension, and my guests would be he signed with the extension that there won't be too much negotiating because the Wolves know how much they need to pay if he goes in, and look we're talking about his max could be about thirty four point seven I believe based off the current salary cap projections, so it would kick in two twenty four, twenty five and it'ld be a thirty four point eight million let's say. So we'll set that number there, or it might be a little bit higher than that, depending on where the to cat falls. Is he gonna get more than twenty five million dollars a year. I had this conversation with someone in the DMS listener slash friend of the podcast, and I don't know that I would bet on him getting twenty five million, but it definitely wouldn't floor me if we're looking at someone who gets twenty seven million. Look, it wouldn't evel me at this point. If it's just look at it this way. If mcal bridges was to hit the open market right now, and I know that McDaniels hasn't shown the pull up jumper that mcal bridges has busted out, and he's also not scoring at the clip because his usage like mcal bridges in Brooklyn right now, and even mcaal bridges on a Soun's team that was decimated by injury for some points, the opportunity has been different. But if mcal Bridges hit the open market right now, he would probably get a max contract. And so was it outside the realm of possibility that Jade McDaniels would get max money in his extension. I'm not ruling it out. That's how good he is. And so if you're the Wolves, things start to get expensive. I won't even say awkward. But if you max out Anti Edwards, which you will in twenty twenty four twenty twenty five, when that deal kicks in, you will have about one hundred and twenty eight million dollars committed to Gobet, Towns and Edwards. The tax that year, to forget the salary cap, the tax that year is a little over one hundred and seventy million dollars to be projected. You kick in, Let's say let's go twenty five million for Jade McDaniels. Let's say they get him for twenty five million that year, on top of one hundred and twenty eight that they already have. That's one hundred and fifty three million dollars committed to five players. So you're already over you are. I don't even know what the salary cap is for that year. I only have the the actual tax line right now. So this the salary cap is one forty point seven. So you've already exceeded that. That's what I was gonna say, but I didn't want to be wrong. You've exceeded that with your commitment to five players, and you don't like I guess for how tenable is? That is what you have to ask yourself. How are you flushing out the rest of the roster all as you're gonna have as your MINIMLI At that point, you could re signed Kyle Anderson, but he'll be older. He is a free agent that same summer as well. Mike Conley's going to be free agent. I'm assuming they're going to guarantee his deal next year, so he'll be a free agent twenty four. He'll be older. You have to be cognizant of this, and I don't think. Look, Jade McDaniels and Anty Edwards are not the two players that you're trading to make this work. Do I think this comes down to a town's or McDaniel's situation. No, I think it would be more likely to be a Gobert slash McDaniels situation. Gobert will have two years left on his deal at this point at roughly ninety million dollars, how movable is he? I'm not saying that if the Timberwolves are winning and contending, No, they're not going to move anybody. What will be mission critical though, moving forward, is we kind of know what Anty Edwards is ceiling is going to be. We know what Towns the ceiling is going to be. At this point, Jade McDaniels is still sort of that unknown mystery box, and so if you can count on him for more offensive creation, kind of in the similar vein of how Kyle Anderson has helped you, you worry less about the aging curves of Anderson, Mike Conley and then their free agencies to where they they could leave. I think that's a great problem to have, quite frankly, and because as it pertains to McDaniels anyway, maybe you still feel uncomfortable about the Wolves having Gobert and Towns and all this money committed to them over ninety million dollars a year starting that season in twenty four to twenty five. Oh and hey, by the way, naz Reid going to be a free agent this year. You really can't just let him walk. And I think we've just assumed that he'll get non tax pyramid level of money, so eleven point four million starting salary or whatever, and the Wolves maybe will be willing to pay him a little bit more. They have to. In my mind, they don't have to, but maybe they have to pay, will have to pay a we're not going to play you as many minutes as other teams would tax because if you're Naz Reid and the money's the same, yes, you're What you're doing in Minnesota is incredible right now, and this is where you got your start, this is where you really became a well known NBA player. At this point, you're gonna want a more prominent role, and there will be teams that can offer you more prominent role than if. Then the team that has Karloth has a Rudy Gobert on its role, and I think that's going to be sort of an interesting wrinkle to his free agency. Still, even if you have to pay him twelve million a year, let's say, okay, let's go ahead and tack that on to one between six players, then you're just into the tax just between Nasri, Jane McDaniels, Anthy Edwards, Rudy Gobert and Karl Anthony Towns. Excuse me, that's only five players, So I was off in my math before. Just five players and you're into the tax. Basically, that's something that they're gonna have to figure out. We'll see if the new ownership group has the pockets, the stomach financially to continue to float this corps. But there's also there's a lot more time before the Anthony Edwards and Jane McDaniels extensions. Invariably, kicking a lot can happen between now and the start of twenty four twenty five. But I do fully expect both McDaniels and Edwards to be the poll stars around which this team is going to build, which is sort of incredible to say. Internally, it does seem like the Wolves believe to McDaniels, but I do wonder if they anticipate him being mis good. I guess the answer would just be yes, you've been doing a lot of this stuff all season. But to say that McDaniels is now as he usurped Karl Anthy Towns is a primary building block in Minnesota because you're trying to wait the longer term, and Towns is more expensive and older. I don't think it's unfair to say that's how freaking good Jade McDaniels is at this point, and I would just anyone who's not a Wolves fan. I don't think Wolves fans will be shocked. If any Wolves fans is shocked how how much he gets, I would be shocked by that Wolves fan being shocked, if that makes any sense. But I do think that there will be people just fans of other teams, fans of the NBA at large, media members, even executives around the league will be shocked to time about Jane McDaniels gets. Whatever the number is, I'll be prepared to call it a steal if it's if it's less than I think, But even if it's higher than I think, I'm not going to rule out that he just actualizes the value of it, because that's how good he's been this season, and it's completely I just I didn't see this through the first two years of his career where I thought that he could be someone who can shoulder the type of offensive burden and usage that we have seen. Let's move on to another question here. We've got one from friend of the podcast Bower. We have it's a question about LaMelo Ball. Would LaMelo be more valuable as a trade asset to the Hornets before or after his rookie max extension. After means teams are locked into the deal, but that's a lot more salary, which means fewer suitors. Before means they don't have to send as much salary if they don't want, and could send one prospect plus a ton of picks. Because I think we can say with absolutely certainty that LaMelo would like to request to trade before the ink is dry and his extension. So LaMelo Ball's max extension, if he signs it this summer, based off the current cap projection, should be about five years and two hundred and two million dollars or whatever it is. I think that would be at the roundabout number there. I think the Hornets will offer it. I think he will sign it also just because he has sort of First of all, no one turns down these rookie max extensions. Everyone wondered if it was going to be Zion as the first player. It's not going to be Lamel. That's just so much money. And also he's had to deal with his own durability, who's especially this season and his lower body. And I think officially, if to look at Okay, what's going on with his brother and his knees, and you're Lamello, you've now dealt with all these ankle and leg injuries yourself, that you understand the mortality of your career. I guess the temporary nature of your career. So I would expect him to sign the extension. He becomes harder to trade immediately after he signs it for the time being. My guests would be though, So if let's just say he doesn't sign an extension, is he more valuable to Charlotte right now? This is what Bower's question boils down to. As a ten point nine million dollar contract next year headed into restricted free agency, or let's say the first year of his new deal and he's making thirty five million or whatever it is, I would tend to believe he'd still be more valuable on the extension. Yes, that's a lot of money, but to have the certainty of him being under lock and key for at least three more team controlled years and maybe four, probably not five. I mean if they broke or a five year extension without a player option sort of what the Grizzlies did with John Rant That becomes a huge win for the Hornets. That's a huge deal for any team to get their hands on. And I also think when you're dealing with someone the LaMelo's caliber, and a team is actually the seller in this situation, it's just so much easier to get adequate value when they're at a higher salary number. Now, maybe LaMelo is different because Charlotte has all these other sort of expendable pieces around him that are making a ton of money. But if you add Gordon Hayward's expiring contract into the fold, or even Terry Rose, You're longer term deal, you're kind of detracting from LaMelo's inbound value. You're using part of his value to get off this money that teams otherwise wouldn't want if LaMelo wasn't included. Most likely maybe you get other teams involved, there's someone who wants Gordon Hayward's expiring deal. But that being said, I guess it could be simpler. If we're talking about good a team getting the number two pick and they want LaMelo instead of the number two pick, I guess that that becomes a little bit cleaner because then you can flesh out future pick packages around that number two pick and maybe some smaller salaries. I just think you're in a position to get more out of teams who may not actually suck. And that's the challenge here is if you could say that there are teams that are going to be top five in the lottery. You know of Portland, I don't know if you love the if anyone would love the LaMelo Ball Damian Lillard pairing. I don't like the whole guard stuff in Portland. If they keep trying over and over again whatever, like there aren't you know when you're teams that are not great unless you're really looking for that instant turnaround. Maybe Orlando, could they see themselves going after LaMelo Ball on that instance, and they're not a team that sucks, they really come on, Okay, then you're gonna get some imminent picks that might actually be valuable because they're not great at the moment and they're not necessarily guaranteed to be great if they have LaMelo are they willing to give up this year's draft pick and other stuff? Though? And I think a lot of those teams, even Lece you use the Thunder as an example, those aren't going to be the teams that go after LaMelo, and so if you're a team going after LaMelo, you're probably a better team. Your immediate picks aren't going to be all that valuable, and so you're going to be more interested in the distant picks. But to sort of head your bet, you also want, you know, an immediate return. You can't just even look at the Kyrie Irving trading in Brooklyn. They got that twenty twenty nine first and that was sort of the glamor piece of the deal, but you also got Dorian Finney Smith and even Spencer Genuine as well. Some seconds, you need something or someone to latch onto in the immediate with your in your immediate outlook, to say, hey, this might not be the centerpiece. It's we wanted these distant first round picks in two and twenty eight and two thousand and thirty, but we also have player X coming in. Teams that are good are going to be willing to give up more of their premo assets than teams that aren't good or guaranteed to be good after the fact. There are certain insins again where that might be different. The Kings and the Pacers that trade with Haliburtons a bonus is sort of a unique circumstance. Where is that laying around out there? The Hornets actually suck way more than the Kings did when they made the Haliburton trade, though, because if you trade LaMelo, that is your directional star. I know PJ. Washington's had a hell of a year, but if you're trading LaMelo, that's it. That's it's over with. You're starting from square one. I guess maybe you could technically have Victor when bin Yuhamma, depending on where your draft pickfalls this year. So I think to the Hornets because of the teams that will be most interested in him, you want him to be on that extension because the assets that you're going to get, they're going to be more interested in him and have I guess salaries that need to be moved that are going to be easier to match when you're not dealing with LaMelo's lower number. And yes, I recognize that it's so much money. We just have to get used to these these bigger numbers. That's my gut feeling, because I think the only way that he's not more valuable on his extensions if you're you know, you moved him this summer, and you're getting like, I don't even know, like the number two pick, and I don't even know if the team would trade the opportunity to draft Scooter Brandon Mill for LaMelo a team that's going would you be in that position? Is my point? Like, just look at the teams that will be eligible for should be eligible for that pick or most likely to have that pick. But that is kind of a fascinating and not kind of It was a fascinating question. Good question, Bouer. Jt Alexander asked, might be a bit late, but where would you have Jalen Williams in a two thousand and twenty two redraft. We already we did this exercise Grant and I a few days ago, and we had him number two. Jt Alexander specifically as does he get picked to four Keegan Murray? I absolutely think he still does get picked before Kegan Murray. I think we can get too caught up and what's immediately happening. And when you look at Jalen Williams, that's someone who could be it's more than a three D. When you look at the way that he could bring the ball up the court and just gets going downhill and wants to play so fast. I don't know that I necessarily see the slowed down, more methodical creation from him, where he wanted him to run the offense or hit a bunch of just pull up jumpers at some point to make defenses work at every level, not just at the basket or when they're in rotation. I don't see the outline of that player just it's it's year one. Maybe he becomes that player. You can see that in Shade and Sharp, you can see that in Jade and Ivy, So maybe you're more likely to favor those picks still, And I think that's fine. Excuse me as I sneeze. I think the other thing to consider here would be Chet Homegrin. I think some people would pick Chet Homegrin over Jaylen Williams still, and I can't, Like, I'm not going to argue against Chet Homegren's upside. He just hasn't played this year, and we're working off this sample from Jaylen Williams where it's easier to say, oh, look, look how really good, ridiculously good that he's been, and it makes us sort of forget about Chet because we haven't seen Chet so but if I had to, if we're looking at the candidates of who might actually be able to still be picked in front of him, the list is pretty short. I guess would you still consider one of the big questions be you still consider taking Jabari Smith Junior instead of instead of him? I probably wouldn't at this point, But so we have Chet, home Grinned Pala, ben Caro. Of course, those players I think you could argue that you would take in front of him, and I definitely would take Palo in front of him. After that, I think Jane n Ivy and Shandon Sharp still have a case. Jeremy so and no, Dyson Daniels, No, And that's just that's really it here. You're not gonna go with any one of the bigs or Tari Eason. I still don't look Keagan Murray being a little bit on the older side and just not having the defensive chops that Williams does the same thing with Benn Nick Matherin except for the not being older. There might be a lot more offensive self creation there. But I like the two way balance that you're going to get from Jim Williams more so. It's really home Grin Ivy and Sharp or the and Ben Carrow are the only names that I would consider taking in front of Jim Williams at this point. As of right now, I do think he would go number two. Lowest I think he would go as actually three, let's account for oh teams still want to invest in the upside of Sharp or Ivy or home Grin. I don't think it's going to be a case of all of them would be taken in front of him. That's a fascinating question. We'll be even more fascinating to kind of revisit this a year from now, when we've had even a larger sample from these rookies. Another question from It's Alan asked woud or Shams. This is a tough one. I don't want to. I know people get on Shams for how he kind of portrays press releases from teams where he's not retweeting or quote tweeting them or reporting them as the team announced that he kind of makes it seem like he has sources. And then also he's had some like fringey pieces published where you're clearly doing a solid for the player and their representation. Wode is kind of done the same stuff. They're all beholden to their sources. This is based off stories I've heard about how Wog has impacted certain staffing issues behind the scenes. I think I would go with Shams here, just it seems like maybe he would be I don't want to say he would be like I don't know. This is such a tough question when it comes to just strictly they're reporting. I kind of like that you will get more like there's the case to be made for Maybe not case, but there will be instances of Wog kind of showing a personality on Twitter where you don't get that from Shams. I also appreciate that Woag isn't going to have as many, you know, redrafts of his tweets. It feels like a lot of Sham Sham's reports. I'll get the notification on my phone and I'll get another one because he had to delete it to correct something a spelling error or an information error that was in there. So maybe I do lean woage as a reporter and Twitter user. If it was let's grab a beer type of thing, I hate beer, so let's grab a Voca and pink lemonade. I think it might be Shams. I don't know. That's a really tough question, though, that's that's really that's more of a thinker than I think it's. Alan probably wanted this to be or intended it to be. Unbiased Pistons fan asked how long before you we can call reasonably called player the B word referring to the bust? Is it one contract? Is that too soon? One year? What is it? I obviously don't have the concrete answer to this question. I think it's fair to say one, there's two different forms of bus because there's going to be players who I guess never actualize their potential relative to their draft status. And so let's use let's use Marko Fols as an example. Clearly shouldn't have been the number one pick, but he's turned to a really solid NBA player. So is he a bust as a number one pick? Sure? But as an NBA player no, So you kind of have to reconfigure your expectations. Maybe that's the better way to frame this question, not better another way. So I don't want to insult. What is a good question from unbiased Pistons fan. I would say, before we have to reset expectations or call a player a bust, I typically throw not the first two years out the window, but if they're bad first two years, like I'm not going to lose faith in almost anybody after year three, that feels like it. I don't think it needs to be one full contract, and some look sometimes team make this. Sometimes teams make this decision before one full contract is up, where you see them decline a third year option or a fourth year team option, so the players aren't even finishing out the life of what's really supposed to be, in essence, a four year contract that they're signing at the rookie scale. And also it does feel like there would be a range at which you can no longer be considered a bust because everything is just such a dice roll. I don't know what selection that is, maybe outside the lottery, maybe even at some point inside the lottery, but when you're looking at tippy top picks, I would say that, you know, after three years is where it would be fair to start entertaining that, especially if it's they haven't really shown anything. It gets a little bit dicier if they're mostly health related issues. But I do think three years it doesn't need to be a full contract. For me, it would be three years before I call a player a bust. And if we're talking, I think you can go a little bit sooner though I'm talking about my two year rule, But it can become pretty clear early on where it's like a year and a half in, Oh, this guy is never going to live up to the superstar billing that's supposed to be incumbent of a number one or number two or number three pick maybe, And so it might be a little bit shorter to where I would frame it this way, then it doesn't take as much time, let's say a year and a half, a season and a half maybe two, to know, well, we need to recalibrate our expectations for where this for what this player can be relative to where they were drafted, versus I think you give it a full three years before it's Oh, I'm just I'm out on this guy. I don't think he's ever gonna amount to a valuable NBA player. I think I would be curious what everyone else says. So get in our discord and let me know how long before you would call an NBA player a bust. This next question comes from Muckle. I need some honest feedback on Evan Mobley making the All Defensive team. In my extremely biased opinion, he should be a lock, and the only debate should be over Defensive Player of the Year. He's played almost one thousand more minutes than Triple J that's twenty eight games when using Mobiley's minutes per game, and has only committed a handful more fouls. He's a lade defending on the perimeter and down low. He's a beast with almost no national at tension. I'm afraid he's going to get overlooked and this will turn out like the Rookie of the Year race last year. Yes, I'm still bitter about that. I, like I said before, I have not gone through my All Defense teams. Evan Mobley will certainly be on the will certainly be on the ship's Maybe it's a long list for me. I don't even know how you're gonna narrow down forwards from behind guys, when you're looking at making picks for All Defense this year, that just feels like it's going to be absolute hell fire to do. So to say that he's a lock, like I would really need to go through it, But just like kind of consider some of the if he's gonna be eligible in the same tier as Jane McDaniels. For instance, what does herb Jones qualify as I know that he gets announced as a shooting guard for the Pelicans, but he could log most of his time all over the place. You have Jhannas Attenta Kumbo is going to be in there, so there's only like going to a limited number of spots. There's only two all defense teams to fill up. Excuse me. Jaren Jackson Junior bem at a Baio are gonna be like looped into that as well, so I hesitant to call him a lock. I do find it interesting though, and there is Look when you watch it, there is more to me of a ubiquity to how Jared Jackson Junior is defending sort of this like controlled chaos can also be on governed chaos when you look at the amount of foul trouble he gets in. So I'm not saying that Evan Mobley shouldn't be in the defensive Player of the Year conversation. I am a little bit surprised that he's not getting more buzz where it's sort of been determined that the two names or maybe even three names, because I still think Bam Adebayo has been really good. But looking at Bam, Evan Mobley, and then even Draymond Green, I know the Warriors events hasn't been great, but Green is by and large being great. I'm just surprised that those names haven't been mentioned as much as we've seen. I've seen some, be honest, there's definitely brook Lopez. He might even be the betting favorite as of right now. And then Jaren Jackson Jr. The minutes played discrepancy. I don't know how to reconcile that. Jared Jackson, You'll be like one of the third lowest minutes per game winners of Defensive Player of the Year the NBA has ever seen. If he does get the award, I do feel like, yes, Evan, it's sort of flown under the radar. Two like the Calves were one of the two teams that rank in the top seven of both offense and defense, and the other teams the Boston Celtics, who are kind of just fading a little bit at the moment. Mobile specifically, not all of the catch all met love him, and so I do think that sort of hurts you look at defensive estimated plus minus doesn't seem to love him, but he ranked second in Lebron defensive points saved. Nicholas Coxton ranks number one in that category. These metrics are all flawed. Nicole Yokich isn't like the top ten of Lebron defensive points saved, but like just looking at everything else that mobile does. He's fourth in total shots contested at the rim. He is in the top ten of blocks, even though he's not considered the traditional shot blocker. He contests forty four point one percent of the other teams shots at the rim when he's on the floor. That's actually a higher number than what Jaron Jackson Jr. Is contesting, And I think a lot of that has to do with the way these teams defend. Jared Jesson Jror spent a lot of time on the floor with Brandon Clark or Steven Adams, not anymore, obviously, both those guys are are injured. Jared Jesson Jr's actual rim protection numbers are better, though he's more elite in that area. He's saving more points per seventy five possessions at the rim. But like if we go yes Triple J, it does feel like there's more of a ubiquity to him where he can fly around more places just on one given possession, where it feels like Mobley can do the same, but is also king on, king in on what would be tough singular assignments, like he's responsible for so much, but when Jared Allen is on the floor, his role changes a little bit. At the same time he takes on harder matchups. Overall, the Calv's defense is still in the eighty seven percent TI when he's playing without Allen, it's still in the seventy six percent TILE. When you play without Allen and have both your guards on the court in Garland and Mitchell, that's absolutely huge. He's gotten better as sort of just this stand up rim protector. I could probably Mobley is the better on ball defender. I would trust Jared Jackson Jr. In the post more. He's definitely I don't know if I mentioned this already, He's definitely gonna be better in the passing lanes. I do think it comes down to what you value, and when you look at just straight up shot deterrence, I do feel like because he's a little bit stronger, and also because of how many of his I don't even want to say his blocks, but his contests are coming as not even the primary line of defense. There's more of a fear that Jared Jackson Jr. In stills. But you watch Whatevan Mobile does on the defensive end, and I think that you can say his overall role it covers a larger scope, might be the best way to frame that for me. I do wonder our voters, or media members or just the fans of the game sort of diminishing his contributions because he plays with Yeah, you look at the perimeter defense and it could be spotty, although I think Carselvert has done a pretty good job of fighting this year when he's playing the three. But you have Jared Allen next to you, who is someone who might have sort of his own all defense case if he was going to have enough minutes played relative to some of the other candidates. Does that detract from him at all? Where Yeah, Okay, Jared Jackson Junior has Dylan Brooks, but he has even Steven Adams. He's very valuable from a rebounding perspective and being a big body, He's not some X defender. And also Jaron Jackson Junior in the Grizzlies defense do whatever splits you want, it's gonna be elite, more elite than Cleveland. When Jaron Jackson Junior's on the floor with Adams without Adams, with Brooks without Brooks, at power forward, at center, it doesn't it doesn't really seem to matter when you go through the through the lineup splits, and I think it's I think the bigger difference to me would just be the statistical dominance that Jaron Jackson Juniors showed as a rim protector and as someone who's going to just get more of those, I'm not. I want to make this clear. I don't think this is a product of purely counting stats. But as someone who's third in blocks per game while being what is he even in the top one fifty of minutes played this season's one fifty six in minutes played right now, that's kind of incredible. And Evan Mowbray, yes, he's played substantially more, but he'sn't gonna have that same erasure Evan Mobley sixth and total minutes played this season, by the way, But I do think look being on the court for that long, I think that has to matter as well. And so if you told me that, if you told me that ever Mobley was the Defensive Player of the Year, that's what you're voting for. I can't push back against it. And so to what I hope is answer Muchaele's question, yes, I think he's underrated in the discussion. If I had to guess whether he's a lock for All Defense, I don't know. I've just based off my own thoughts. I will call him a lock because I think he'll make my All Defense team. I think he made my All Defense team last year, so yes, he's a lock for All Defense. I think the case or Defensive Player of the Year is arguable, but I will agree that it feels weird that Evan Mobley isn't mentioned more routinely as a candidate, and I can't pin the exact reason why, because I don't think the gap between what he's doing and Jared Jackson Jr. Is Doing Is that large if it exists at all. The only thing can really come up with is does so much of what Mobley did, especially earlier on this season get overshadowed by the fact that, oh, it's him and Jared Allen together and it just feels like a success by committee instance, and Jared Jackson Junior came back mid season after being out with an injury and just totally not reinvented the Grizzlies defense. But they weren't forcing him many turnovers without him, and the defensive statistics were all over the place. They weren't even a great defensive team to start the year. He comes back and they're all sudden, just the best defensive player, best defensive team in the league. I think that I don't want to call it a narrative, but that turn of events, that development has helped his case. And I also, finally, I'll say, when it comes to all defense, I definitely think you need to weigh every factor. But could it be the reverse of MVP where it feels like we're so caught up in durability as one of the elements for the MVP award. But when it's Defensive Player of the Year, if you're going for the vote of Jaren Jackson Jr. It's not necessarily a vote for availability or staying on the court. As much as was this just the most outstanding defensive player almost bar none within minutes. And that's not to say that Jaren Jackson Junior has played. It'll be should be over eighteen hundred minutes by the end of the season. Is that just going to be enough? And so it feels like almost we would be viewing Defensive Player of the Year in the vein of All MBA, where I think people are a little bit more flexible with the sample sizes and more inclined to say, well, yeah, Kevin Durant, he can't finish top five on the MVP ballot, but he could certainly make second team All NBA with the minutes that he played. I'm not saying he will, but I think that there will be that type of logic, And so are we ascribing a similar sentiment to the Defensive Player of the Year conversation. That being said, I absolutely think Evan Mobley is capable of winning the award if I had to guess on my Defensive Player of the Year ballot, because of how much people favor just the straight up rim protection when you're talking about the volume of the shots contested, and in addition to the rim deterrence, which I do think that bigs like Brook Lopez, maybe even Janie and of course Jarren Jackson Jr. Are going to be better more frequent deterrence too, because of the positions and roles they play than in Evin Mobley that goes into it. I think Mobley has a strong case, though, to be in the top three of the ballot that people are going to fill out. I don't think he'll crack the top three of most ballots. I agree with you there, Muckle, but I do I also agree that I think he longs and the conversation has not been given enough credence in that even if he is not your ultimate pick. Hopefully I did that question justice, Muckles. I know that I know you hate the caslor and a cas fan at all, but if that will do it for this mailbag, I hope you all enjoyed it. It was a long one and until next time, please remember to rate, review, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Remember to check us out Apple, Spotify, lead ratings and reviews, subscribe, like comment on Twitter, help the agraytheloves back. We appreciate shout outs, let people know about us, word of mouth, recommendations, retreat our promos, get like I said, quote us or something said on the pot, or compliment us or whatever on Twitter. We appreciate it all. And until next time, and as always, I need to shout out to the one, the only, the indelible, Frank Milakina. And also I leave you with my apologies and grants. Apologies to Jared Allen