1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,640 murders, and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together 6 00:00:24,679 --> 00:00:28,519 with Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a 7 00:00:28,559 --> 00:00:32,479 researcher, a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social 8 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,799 media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner 9 00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:42,640 in crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly 10 00:00:42,719 --> 00:00:48,079 and I'm Bill Thomas, and we are recording in the same room. This 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,640 is unheard of, this is crazy. For the first time in sixteen months, 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,840 we are recording in the exact same space. We're not even six feet 13 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:59,240 apart. In case you're worried about our health, we're both vaccinated, so 14 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,439 it's all good. We're good. You know something. I was doing some 15 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,599 calculation this morning. Kristen Billy, And this is actually more like eighteen months 16 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:14,000 because we recorded our first episodes of Mind Over Murder face to face in your 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,519 kitchen, yes, in December twenty nineteen. Oh my gosh, doesn't that 18 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,040 sound like a long time ago? It does. It feels like a long 19 00:01:23,079 --> 00:01:27,159 time ago. But we're here in the beautiful Maple House in Norfolk, Connecticut, 20 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:32,840 which is Bill and his partner Pamela's lovely bed and breakfast, and it 21 00:01:32,920 --> 00:01:38,319 is gorgeous. And I am up here for the week with my boyfriend Mark, 22 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,000 and we've stayed with Bill and Pamela and it is fantastic and it's lovely 23 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:47,879 and we're having a blast, and we're recording face to face right here in 24 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,359 the library. It's very exciting. I had to go around and set up 25 00:01:51,439 --> 00:01:55,280 cables, but I was really excited. And we turned off the fan to 26 00:01:55,439 --> 00:02:00,799 reduce background noise. So it's nice and toasty. I would say it's toasting, 27 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:04,040 Yeah, it's I'm wondering if the quality is going to be any different 28 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:07,959 because we're not going to have Zoom occasionally, fritzyne One or the other of 29 00:02:07,039 --> 00:02:09,879 us. I'll bet it's going to be better. It's going to be better 30 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:14,960 Yeah, it's very exciting. We just were trying to figure out can we 31 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:21,080 get through this without too much insanity? Probably not, because it's also nine 32 00:02:21,199 --> 00:02:25,840 fourteen in the evening. We're just now getting started after a day of insanity 33 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:30,240 and revel ry. You and Mark had some touristy stuff to do today, 34 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,599 we did. We had too risky stuff to do today, and we have 35 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:36,840 to risky stuff to do tomorrow. And it's been very nice to actually like 36 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,879 record face to face, and we've got all sorts of great stuff coming down 37 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,240 the pike for the rest of y'all. So, and without giving away any 38 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:49,639 of your plans, I think our listeners who are in the Boston area we'll 39 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,919 be hearing this later. So this is no help at all. Right, 40 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,240 if you thought you saw Kristin Dilly in the Boston area, you might have 41 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,840 actually seen her. I'm not going to Boston. I'm going to Salem. 42 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:05,759 It's true. That is true, and conquered, conquered. These two are 43 00:03:05,759 --> 00:03:08,280 big history bots, so they're going to go do some hysterical stuff. Some 44 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:14,280 hysterical stuff. Yeah, that's what it's referred to in New England as hysterical 45 00:03:14,319 --> 00:03:17,800 New England stuff. This is also where you going as I am in eleventh 46 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:22,719 grade American history teacher, and I teach the Cruci Bowl, which is all 47 00:03:22,759 --> 00:03:25,280 about the Salem which trials, and I teach the trans and Dentalists. So 48 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:30,039 we are going to the House of Seven Gables, and we're going to Orchard 49 00:03:30,039 --> 00:03:34,120 House, and we're going to Walden Pond, and we're going to every place 50 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,280 in Salem that is cool. And we're going to Henry David, the Rose 51 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,159 Cabin and rough Waldo Emerson's house. So, yeah, great stuff. Will 52 00:03:40,199 --> 00:03:44,280 they be there? I don't think so, not unless I bring Auiji board 53 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,159 in spirit. Possibly in spirit. That's right. We actually have had some 54 00:03:47,199 --> 00:03:53,039 great times discussing alternate hysterical events too. Yes, I'm sorry, those are 55 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:59,960 historical events, including Bigfoot. Yes, UFOs. What are those fireball things 56 00:04:00,199 --> 00:04:01,680 called? Again? Will of the Wisps? I never even knew this. 57 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,159 I've learned stuff this time. You can tell when you're hanging out with a 58 00:04:05,199 --> 00:04:10,360 teacher when you learn useful new expressions like will of the wisps, Will of 59 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,520 the wisps. Yes, So we're going to have a blast, and it's 60 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,040 been really nice being here the last couple of days. That yeahs Bill pointed 61 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:21,120 out, it's been like eighteen months since we've recorded in person. Yeah, 62 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:26,720 and this is momentous for us. It is. It is before this whole 63 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:30,360 COVID thing. Our original plan was that we were going to record more of 64 00:04:30,399 --> 00:04:33,759 these podcasts face to face. Ye, and we were even going to meet 65 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,720 in the middle. And we will be able to do some of those things 66 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,399 now in the future. Yes, we hope, and we did. We 67 00:04:41,439 --> 00:04:44,000 had all of these plans, all of these people up and down the East 68 00:04:44,079 --> 00:04:47,040 Coast, that we were going to go and take our little setup to them 69 00:04:47,199 --> 00:04:49,680 and we were going to record with them, like originally we're going to go 70 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,439 to Ocean City and hang out with Jim Oskins for a little time. That's 71 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,160 right. I think she'd still let us if we asked her, she would 72 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,839 still let right, Gemma, you would let us write, she would, 73 00:04:58,879 --> 00:05:00,959 she would wonderful. Yeah, but of course we had Gemma on the podcast 74 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,319 earlier this year, but we could do round two at her beachside house. 75 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:12,480 Yes, so this is great. We're very excited. We've been thinking about 76 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:17,240 what new information we can provide y'all with as we are sitting here and talking 77 00:05:17,319 --> 00:05:23,199 and thinking our thoughts and ruminating on the case as we do, it occurred 78 00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:28,480 to us that we have learned a lot of new information in the last couple 79 00:05:28,519 --> 00:05:30,279 of weeks. For people who've worked on the same case for as long as 80 00:05:30,319 --> 00:05:32,800 we have, you would think that maybe you've learned all there is to know. 81 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:38,160 No, the Colonial Parkway murders is one of those cases that just goes 82 00:05:38,199 --> 00:05:41,600 on and on, and we learned new things in the last few weeks, 83 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:45,879 and we actually wanted to recap some of the things that we've learned or maybe 84 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:50,800 think we've learned in the last few weeks. Absolutely most of what we learned, 85 00:05:50,959 --> 00:05:55,199 I would say, have come from two of our guests in particular, 86 00:05:55,399 --> 00:06:00,800 and so we do want to give a shout out to Jeannette Santiago and to 87 00:06:00,959 --> 00:06:04,639 Judy Nobling for taking the time to talk with us over what we know is 88 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:11,480 a very difficult subject and to provide us with some new pieces of information to 89 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:15,480 chew on. Both women I think did an extraordinary job, and a number 90 00:06:15,519 --> 00:06:20,519 of people commented on how terrific they were. But also, and you can 91 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,839 hear it in the podcast if you listen carefully, it was a difficult interview 92 00:06:26,199 --> 00:06:29,839 the two of us for both tearing up at different times. And I'm not 93 00:06:29,879 --> 00:06:34,480 saying that never happens, but listening to these two amazing women describe what happened 94 00:06:34,519 --> 00:06:40,439 to their loved ones and the aftermath and their observations, and then we were 95 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:46,240 receiving information that we'd never heard before. It was difficult in spots especially, 96 00:06:46,319 --> 00:06:48,480 and most importantly for them, and we really appreciate the fact that they were 97 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,519 willing to do this. We do try to inject some lighter moments so that 98 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:57,959 it's not just incredibly heavy for forty five minutes, so it feels like an 99 00:06:57,959 --> 00:07:01,680 onslaught, But at the same time, you're talking about unsolved murders and beautiful 100 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,120 young people that we lost, and there were some tough moments, and I 101 00:07:05,399 --> 00:07:11,480 have to thank both of them for their ability to get through it and to 102 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:15,279 inform all of us as listeners, know what that feels like, what that 103 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:18,600 experience is like. As you know very well, Bill, it never really 104 00:07:18,839 --> 00:07:25,839 goes away. It's the grief and the loss and everything is right there. 105 00:07:26,519 --> 00:07:30,879 You can really hear it in Jennette's voice and in Judy's voice as well, 106 00:07:30,959 --> 00:07:35,199 So it is extraordinarily brave of them to take the time to talk to us, 107 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:40,959 and we do thank them very much for that. You're listening to Mind 108 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,800 over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from our sponsors. We're 109 00:07:45,839 --> 00:07:49,959 back here at mindover Murder. So what are some of the things that we 110 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:54,920 think we've learned now from the last couple of weeks before we move on with 111 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,879 further exploration of the Colonial Parkway murders. What are some of the things that 112 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:05,040 were our takeaways. I think we learned a certain amount about relationships between the 113 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:11,839 various parties involved in David and Robin's murder. I was surprised, and maybe 114 00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:15,759 I shouldn't have. If I'd really been thinking about it in terms of age 115 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,480 range, maybe I wouldn't have been surprised. I was just surprised to learn, 116 00:08:18,519 --> 00:08:22,879 for example, that Jeanette went to elementary school with David Knoblin. In 117 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,800 all the years we've been exploring this case, meeting with these families, I 118 00:08:26,879 --> 00:08:33,279 never knew that. I had always thought that there was little to no connection 119 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,919 between the Edwards family and the Nobbling family, and apparently that's wrong. They 120 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:43,360 actually did know each other, and those two people, Jeanette and David went 121 00:08:43,399 --> 00:08:48,080 to school together. And of course we heard that funny slightly mischievous. I 122 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,039 was gonna say off color. I don't know if it's quite that strong. 123 00:08:50,159 --> 00:08:56,320 Mischievous is a kid, Yeah, but funny story about David in elementary school 124 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:01,399 picking up the girls' dresses when they were hing a movie. I can picture 125 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:07,080 the lights going down and them getting the movie started, and then there's some 126 00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:13,240 goofball kid sliding around on the floor. Yeah, as a teacher, you 127 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,120 could pretty much expect that. Yeah. Absolutely. Now, of course there 128 00:09:16,159 --> 00:09:20,759 would be a whole lot more in terms of lawsuits and liabilities to go along 129 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:24,240 with it, but yeah, there's always some kid who's going to try that. 130 00:09:24,399 --> 00:09:28,879 Yeah. Learning that there was that connection between the two families, I 131 00:09:28,919 --> 00:09:31,600 had no idea. I know that surprised me, and I'm pretty sure it 132 00:09:31,639 --> 00:09:35,360 surprised you as well. Yeah, I had never heard that before. So 133 00:09:35,519 --> 00:09:41,879 it's interesting that these issues come out on a more serious note. Both women, 134 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,759 Jeanette first and then Judy last week, made an interesting observation. They 135 00:09:46,840 --> 00:09:52,799 both feel strongly, yes, that the murder of Robin Edwards and David Nobling 136 00:09:54,159 --> 00:09:58,559 is not related to the other Colonial Parkway murders. And I think that is 137 00:09:58,639 --> 00:10:03,919 something and between the two of us when we kick around which cases we think 138 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,480 might eventually end up off the table in terms of cases that are related to 139 00:10:09,519 --> 00:10:11,440 each other, I feel like the Edwards Nobelin case is the one that we've 140 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,039 always felt maybe had the least connection to all of the others. I think 141 00:10:16,039 --> 00:10:18,080 I was a little surprised to hear it from both of them, But at 142 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:22,159 the same time, it was also like, I can see that now I'm 143 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:26,440 making a little bit of a sour lemon face, understanding that to the podcast, 144 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,360 a podcast is an audio experience, So let me explain the sour lemon 145 00:10:31,519 --> 00:10:37,279 face. Personally, I think case number four, which we'll be exploring in 146 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:41,360 the coming weeks, Phelps Lower, that's the one that happened on Interstate sixty 147 00:10:41,399 --> 00:10:46,039 four Anna Maria Phelps and Daniel Lower, who disappeared over Liberty Weekend nineteen eighty 148 00:10:46,159 --> 00:10:50,440 nine. That's the one, from my point of view, that feels the 149 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:56,080 least liked the other so called Colonial Parkway murders. So I don't know. 150 00:10:56,399 --> 00:11:01,399 I am still far from convinced that all four of these double homicides are related. 151 00:11:01,879 --> 00:11:05,679 The more things we learn, the more I'm convinced that some of these 152 00:11:05,759 --> 00:11:11,559 murders are absolutely not related to the others. You can make a case that 153 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:16,120 Edward's noveling is something else, and we'll get into some of the possibilities over 154 00:11:16,159 --> 00:11:20,879 the next few minutes. It's interesting that both of our guests over the last 155 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:26,279 few weeks felt so strongly that their loved ones murder is not related to the 156 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:31,559 other murders in the so called Colonial Parkway murders. Both of them basically said, 157 00:11:31,639 --> 00:11:35,759 we think it was a wrong place, wrong time sort of scenario. 158 00:11:37,639 --> 00:11:39,639 Just they were in a place where they should not have been, at a 159 00:11:39,759 --> 00:11:43,840 time when they should not have been, and they witnessed something. And I 160 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:50,759 gonna guess maybe it'd drug Deale that they don't necessarily think that they were involved 161 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:58,000 with right Funny. Both women also said Dennette and Judy said that they had 162 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:05,399 no family or personal connection to this place, the Ragged Island Wildlife sometimes we 163 00:12:05,519 --> 00:12:09,279 say refuge. It was called the Refuge back then. Now they seem to 164 00:12:09,279 --> 00:12:13,480 refer to it as the management area, so it's Ragged Island Wildlife Management Area. 165 00:12:15,039 --> 00:12:16,559 I don't know why either changed the name over the thirty years, but 166 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:24,600 they didn't seem to have a connection to that place and didn't know that Robin 167 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:30,440 or David ever went there. As we've discussed on the podcast before, it 168 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,840 has a reputation. At parking lot next to the James River Bridge on the 169 00:12:33,919 --> 00:12:39,000 Ragged Island side has a reputation as a place for low level drug deals and 170 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:46,320 hookups gay and straight, and does to this day. It did thirty four 171 00:12:46,399 --> 00:12:50,840 years ago and it does now. I don't know if Robin and David had 172 00:12:50,879 --> 00:12:54,279 been there before. As we've talked about, if you wanted to make a 173 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:58,240 low level drug deal in the late nineteen eighties, there's no cell phone, 174 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:01,879 there's no internet, pick up your iPhone to make an appointment to meet your 175 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:07,120 drug dealer to buy some pot. You go to the place where the pot 176 00:13:07,159 --> 00:13:13,840 dealers are and you score whatever you're looking to buy. I'm not accusing either 177 00:13:13,879 --> 00:13:18,399 one of our guests of being naive, they seem far from it. But 178 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:22,240 I'm going to make a personal observation here. I think there are only two 179 00:13:22,279 --> 00:13:26,240 reasons to drive the four and a half miles across the river from the Newport 180 00:13:26,279 --> 00:13:31,279 News side to the very quiet especially at that time thirty plus years ago. 181 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:37,679 I think you either go there for a low level drug deal or a hook 182 00:13:37,919 --> 00:13:41,559 a place to have sex and romance. I don't know if I'm missing anything 183 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:46,039 else. No, I don't think you are. And we'd actually had an 184 00:13:46,039 --> 00:13:50,000 interesting discussion, you and I the other day, and it probably speaks to 185 00:13:50,039 --> 00:13:52,759 my own naivete because you immediately knew an answer that I did not. And 186 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:58,759 I said, why would you go over to Ragged Island when there's plenty of 187 00:13:58,799 --> 00:14:03,720 places in a Hampton or Newport News where you could probably score pot? Oh? 188 00:14:03,759 --> 00:14:05,799 Sure? And do you remember what you told me? I don't remember 189 00:14:05,879 --> 00:14:11,720 exactly what did I say. You had said that it was probably easier to 190 00:14:11,759 --> 00:14:18,120 get out of the jurisdiction of Newport News, which was probably a bit more 191 00:14:18,159 --> 00:14:20,519 heavily patrolled, and over to Isle of Wight, where it would not have 192 00:14:20,679 --> 00:14:26,039 been as heavily patrolled, which is not something that would have occurred to me. 193 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:28,679 Maybe you should have That was an immediate answer, so clearly it was 194 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:33,000 I figured it was something you'd given some thought to. On the more populated 195 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:37,960 side of the river, which is where Robin and David are from. They're 196 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:43,759 from the Hampton Roads Newport News side of things. That's where the shipyard is, 197 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:46,720 that's where the city is, that's where the industry is. There are 198 00:14:46,759 --> 00:14:52,240 police forces that are pretty substantial. Even thirty years ago, your chances of 199 00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:58,159 running into problems with Johnny Law while looking to buy some pot, I think 200 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,759 are significantly higher. Driving four and a half miles across the bridge, there's 201 00:15:01,799 --> 00:15:07,480 no toll. You then are on the far side of the river, the 202 00:15:07,559 --> 00:15:11,679 James River, and you're now in Isle of Wight, which has a much 203 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,440 smaller police force. And these areas, although they're patrolled, are more lightly 204 00:15:16,519 --> 00:15:22,720 patrolled. You could pretty much go there conduct some discreet business. Was I 205 00:15:22,759 --> 00:15:26,399 think an expression you used recently when we were discussing this, yep, make 206 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,000 your deal, buy some pot or whatever, and then leave. It's always 207 00:15:31,039 --> 00:15:35,600 a little bit of a delicate discussion to be had because we don't want to 208 00:15:35,679 --> 00:15:41,960 make it sound like we are accusing anybody of bad behavior. It always felt 209 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:43,720 a little weird to me, going, oh, clearly they were over there 210 00:15:43,759 --> 00:15:48,480 for a drug deal, because you can't assume that they were. But we 211 00:15:48,679 --> 00:15:56,200 did learn from Judy Nobling that she had found a roach in David's truck. 212 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,480 And for those people who may not be familiar with the term bill, can 213 00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:03,279 you explain this would be a leftover marijuana cigarette, the butt end of a 214 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:07,840 marijuana cigarette which many people will save and smoke later. I've said all along 215 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:14,240 regarding the Colonial Parkway murders. I don't think we're ever implying anything when we 216 00:16:14,279 --> 00:16:19,399 talk about what potentially took our victims to these locations. Look, these are 217 00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:25,919 young people doing young people things, and the idea that teenagers are going to 218 00:16:26,159 --> 00:16:33,000 go to isolated places engage in romantic or sexual behavior, maybe drink beer or 219 00:16:33,039 --> 00:16:37,360 smoke pot. These are not shocking revelations, whether we're talking about last week 220 00:16:37,639 --> 00:16:41,919 or thirty something years ago. It was very interesting to the two of us 221 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:47,879 that Judy said, when she was looking in her son David's truck, she 222 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,879 found a marijuana cigarette. She also told us that she found a marijuana cigarette, 223 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:59,279 she took it, did not tell the police about it, Yeah, 224 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,200 and has never told them to this day. Again, I don't think it's 225 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:07,519 shocking that there was a roach in the ashtray of his Ford Ranger pickup, 226 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,000 right, And I think Judy was making the decision she felt was right at 227 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:18,599 the time. Sure, absolutely, And remember she probably found the roach before 228 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:22,000 they'd found the bodies. It probably didn't occur to her later to say, 229 00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:26,640 oh, by the way, I found marijuana in his ashtray. It is 230 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:33,319 interesting now in retrospect, and we're certainly not trying to criticize anyone, particularly 231 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,400 a grieving mother, no less on decisions that she made nearly thirty four years 232 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:44,200 ago. They probably were smoking marijuana that evening. It does solidify to us 233 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:48,279 a reason why they might have been at Ragged Island in a way that it 234 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:52,720 hasn't. We've only been able to speculate before beforehand we've been we don't know 235 00:17:52,759 --> 00:17:56,920 that David or Robin we're smoking pot. Now we do have some evidence that 236 00:17:56,119 --> 00:18:00,759 at least David was sure, and so I feel like that kind of solidified 237 00:18:00,839 --> 00:18:04,400 a little bit of thinking for both of us. There. Okay, this 238 00:18:04,559 --> 00:18:10,000 now is a very clear reason why they might have been a Ragged Island. 239 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,839 You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back after this word from 240 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:30,319 our sponsors. We're back here at mindover Murder. Judy also made a number 241 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:36,000 of interesting observations, as did Jeannette. Judy had said that if she used 242 00:18:36,039 --> 00:18:38,359 the word staged or not, I don't think she might have used that word, 243 00:18:38,359 --> 00:18:42,480 but I think she said set up. The truck felt like a setup, 244 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:47,640 and she said the way the clothes were on the center console and his 245 00:18:47,839 --> 00:18:52,440 wallet up on the dashboard. She, like her son Michael, has made 246 00:18:52,559 --> 00:18:57,000 observations that are quite similar. She said that the truck was found in such 247 00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:03,559 disarray and oddly parked with the nosey, and as we've talked about before, 248 00:19:03,599 --> 00:19:07,720 where David was always in the habit of parking his truck nose out, and 249 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:14,200 the shoes on the floor which turned out to be Robin's sneakers. She said, 250 00:19:14,279 --> 00:19:18,319 all of these things were so out of character for how David would have 251 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:22,960 left his truck. Yes, exactly. Now, we did spend quite a 252 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:30,039 bit of time discussing run Little and Liberty Security, and as we have stated 253 00:19:30,079 --> 00:19:33,640 before and will continue to state, we are not implying nor should you infer, 254 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:41,160 that Ron Little had any involvement with these murders. He did put himself 255 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:44,839 in the middle of the investigation, but we are not saying that he deserved 256 00:19:44,839 --> 00:19:48,440 to be there. We're just presenting the facts to you. So we did, 257 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:53,079 of course feel like we needed to ask Janette about her opinion with regard 258 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:59,279 to Ron Little and Liberty Security because her mother, Bonnie, did work for 259 00:19:59,359 --> 00:20:03,039 Liberty Secure Security, which we mentioned in our previous podcast. Episodes about Liberty, 260 00:20:03,519 --> 00:20:07,400 and it was interesting a little bit of insider information on how we come 261 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,559 up with our questions. Bill and I come up with our questions ahead of 262 00:20:11,599 --> 00:20:15,680 time. We don't work off of a script, but we're not shooting from 263 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,839 the hip either. But that wasn't a question that I had planned on asking 264 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,519 Jeanette. I didn't have it in my notes. It occurred to me as 265 00:20:22,559 --> 00:20:25,960 we were headed toward the end there. I was like, let me just 266 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:30,319 ask her about Liberty Security. And I was glad that I did, because 267 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:33,599 we did get some acknowledgment from Jeanette that even though yeah, her mom, 268 00:20:33,640 --> 00:20:38,200 Bonnie did work for Liberty, she does not think that they had anything to 269 00:20:38,279 --> 00:20:42,599 do with Robin's murder. Was that a surprising response to you? It was 270 00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:48,000 an interesting response. It makes me want to talk to Bonnie mm hmm, 271 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:53,400 Yeah, Robin's mom, whom we've spoken to before off air and who participated 272 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,880 in the Lover's Lane Murders television series. It makes me want to circle back 273 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,599 with Bonnie if she's willing to explore that a little bit further, particularly since 274 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,880 you and I have received tips in the last few months that steered us back 275 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:12,359 towards Ron Little and new information regarding Ron Little. There's still people I need 276 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:17,200 to follow up with, even as I speak tonight, that have provided us 277 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,880 with information that I need to run to ground before I turn it over to 278 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:25,319 the FBI. It probably makes me want to go back and ask Bonnie, 279 00:21:25,559 --> 00:21:30,240 Robin's mom more about this information. And obviously the closer we can get to 280 00:21:30,279 --> 00:21:36,200 this source, sure, the better off we are. Janette can obviously offer 281 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:41,440 a number of observations that she herself was there for or she lived in the 282 00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:47,839 example of the Ron Little liberty security, Bonnie Edwards' questions. I think it 283 00:21:47,839 --> 00:21:51,079 would be great to get back with Bonnie. So that's definitely on our to 284 00:21:51,079 --> 00:21:56,599 do list. Something else that had come up. I'd heard observations about this, 285 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,599 but now we're getting two slightly different stories. Are asking people to remember 286 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,319 things that happened thirty four years ago, and some of this is through the 287 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:11,240 haze of grief. Both women seem to recall that Robin Edwards had run away. 288 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,160 Jeanette told a story which we had not heard before, which is that 289 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:22,400 Robin had run away and blam. Pardo covers some of this material in his 290 00:22:22,799 --> 00:22:29,160 book with his daughter Victoria Hester regarding Robin running away and being gone for what 291 00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:32,799 sounds like a couple of weeks. Yeah, and I think Robin may have 292 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,839 been in a situation where she was being taken advantage of by some older men 293 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,880 who were in their twenties. And she's quite young, and of course she's 294 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:47,440 behaving like someone who's much older than fourteen. It's quite inappropriate in terms of 295 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:52,279 the way I think these men treated her. But we had never heard this 296 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,680 part of the story, which is that her mom, Bonnie, went on 297 00:22:56,839 --> 00:23:04,039 television Janet's recollect a Wavy, which is one of the three television stations in 298 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:08,440 town, and had begged Robin to return to come home, that she was 299 00:23:08,519 --> 00:23:12,880 missed. They were not getting a lot of support or cooperation from the Newport 300 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:18,319 News Police department. Her mom went on local television and begged her to come 301 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:25,039 home, and Robin was there at this apartment with these men and another young 302 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:30,000 woman. It appears that entreaty from her mom was enough to get Robin to 303 00:23:30,039 --> 00:23:34,200 say to her friend, they really do miss us, perhaps we should go 304 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,759 home, and they did. I'd never heard that story before. Now neither 305 00:23:37,799 --> 00:23:42,240 had I, and we did get every once in a while, we will 306 00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,400 get some information and we're like, Okay, probably we need to fact check 307 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,880 that just to see, just to make sure that we're not in the wrong 308 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,200 on any of this. We did hear from Judy that she understood that Robin 309 00:23:55,240 --> 00:24:00,799 had been in like a half way house kind of situation prior to her I 310 00:24:00,839 --> 00:24:04,279 don't remember Janette mentioning that, so I think that's something that we should definitely 311 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:10,240 circle back around with her about. But that was an interesting and it was 312 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:14,319 almost an offhand comment from her. It was, I don't know if Judy's 313 00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:18,400 got our facts completely nailed down. Remember that Robin is not her daughter. 314 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,519 Yeah, that's Judy's recollection, So it'll be really interesting to see if that's 315 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:29,680 factually accurate. It's possible we may be blending through the haze of time those 316 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:34,640 two events, and perhaps Robin's running away is being remembered slightly differently. It 317 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:40,960 could be by Judy, who obviously didn't live that. There is certainly a 318 00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:47,640 good amount of new information, both small in scale but also bigger too, 319 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:52,480 that we've gleaned from these two most recent interviews with Jeanette and Judy. Because 320 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,559 Bill and I are who we are, we spend a lot of time talking 321 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,799 to each other and ruminating and going but what do you think it all mean? 322 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,160 That is something that we do every time we finish with an interview. 323 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,119 We sit, we talk, we digest a little bit. Then we call 324 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,960 each other the next day and say, hey, you know what I was 325 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,839 thinking about? Yeah? Put it all over again. Yeah, So this 326 00:25:11,039 --> 00:25:14,079 is These are the things that we ruminate about. If you ever want a 327 00:25:14,079 --> 00:25:17,839 little behind the scenes about what goes on it mind over murdered. This is 328 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,279 it. We interview, we talked, we think about it each other and 329 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,240 it just continues. Something else that we both talked about and we don't know 330 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:30,599 if you'll say yes. One of the things that we'd like to do is 331 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:36,519 reach out to Karl Nobling. Yeah, David's father, and Carl and Judy 332 00:25:37,079 --> 00:25:42,559 were divorced and rather estranged by this point. Interestingly, despite the fact that 333 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,359 the marriage did not end happily, I was surprised that they haven't ever discussed 334 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:56,240 it much. Since Carl is a very direct and plain spoken guy. I've 335 00:25:56,279 --> 00:25:59,640 spoken to him before over the phone, I've never met him in person. 336 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,640 Now. He did do a very good series of interviews for The Lover's Lane 337 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,640 Murders and told the story about how he had discovered David's body. Some of 338 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:14,359 it's obviously very difficult for him to talk about. Listening to Judy tell her 339 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,599 kind of half of the story, it made me think, let's at least 340 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:22,720 try to get back with Carl and see if mister Knobling might be willing to 341 00:26:22,759 --> 00:26:26,000 talk with us. And really, more than anything else, what resonates with 342 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:32,680 me again and again, and it's not just with Jeannette and Judy but with 343 00:26:32,799 --> 00:26:40,319 all of the families, is just how many residual effects there are from the 344 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:44,599 murders of two people. The ripples spread out. You've used the expression before 345 00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:48,640 you toss a stone and a pond, and the ripples just continue outward. 346 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,839 I would say some of the more difficult moments for both of us during those 347 00:26:52,880 --> 00:27:00,839 interviews, especially with Judy's, was hearing the really through the awful side effects 348 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:07,279 that came with David's murder. She described Michael beginning to use drugs yes Hope, 349 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:14,920 She discussed her own suicide attempt. It's heartbreaking to hear this, and 350 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:19,039 it really for me, it very much is a reminder that one act of 351 00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:26,079 violence, it just ripples and in some cases thunders through a family, and 352 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,599 it just causes additional grief after grief. Neither of us had any idea about 353 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,160 Judy's suicide attempt. I know I didn't, certainly I don't think you did 354 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,799 either. No. I was so shocked and surprised by that, and then 355 00:27:38,839 --> 00:27:41,960 of course I thought about it quite a bit later, and we talked about 356 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:48,559 it later. And here's a mom to two young children, David and Michael. 357 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:55,559 Obviously we know people that have found themselves in that very dark place where 358 00:27:55,599 --> 00:28:00,359 the only option to those individuals, including friends of ours, had been to 359 00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,799 take their own life or attempt to. And when you get to that very 360 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:07,680 dark place and it seems like the choice that you make to end the pain 361 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,519 is to end your own life. I was thinking, here's a woman who 362 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,720 is going to be leaving a son behind her son, Michael, And just 363 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,279 how much darkness and despair could she possibly be dealing with at that point that 364 00:28:23,599 --> 00:28:30,440 she would consider taking that drastic step. It's just a very striking moment. 365 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,920 I think you can tell from listening to that interview last week, both of 366 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:37,759 us were just completely taken aback. And I'm so glad that she didn't make 367 00:28:37,799 --> 00:28:44,000 that terrible decision. Although she also makes it clear that it doesn't like her 368 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:48,599 life is all sweetness and light or anything like that. At the same time, 369 00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:52,960 we got into a fantastic conversation about Michael, who's someone that we've both 370 00:28:52,039 --> 00:28:56,880 met and we like him very much and admire him and his turning his own 371 00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:02,160 life around. Here's a guy that really reveal his older brother. This is 372 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:07,880 a loss beyond any kind of calculus. It's just incredible how much this family 373 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,160 has suffered. And yet Michael comes out of this situation. And she thanked 374 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,519 the drug Court. I was very struck by that, And she said, 375 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,799 with the help of the drug court, he was able to turn his life 376 00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:25,160 around, and he's married and has a family, and he's a fantastic guy. 377 00:29:25,799 --> 00:29:30,079 Does he have his own struggles and dark moments. I'm sure he does. 378 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,480 At the same time, I'm so glad that they were able to come 379 00:29:33,519 --> 00:29:37,000 through this incredibly dark time, this time of great loss, and come out 380 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:42,400 with something approaching a sense of hope and light and some degree of peace. 381 00:29:42,759 --> 00:29:49,680 Sure, Michael is very much still in thrall to his older brother. You 382 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:55,640 can tell he really still idolizes David, and perhaps all of us tend to 383 00:29:56,319 --> 00:29:59,720 lionize the ones we've lost. I know I certainly do that with my sister 384 00:29:59,799 --> 00:30:04,160 Cat. She'd probably clap me outside the head and say, don't make me 385 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,599 out to be something I wasn't. But listening to Judy's story and listening to 386 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:18,839 Jeanette's recollection of their experiences, it's very striking just how profound their loss has 387 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:23,519 been. And it does just have to make it all that much more painful 388 00:30:23,799 --> 00:30:30,960 knowing that there has been this awful loss and that there is still no answer. 389 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,200 Clearly you can speak to this a whole lot more than I can. 390 00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:38,000 It's got to be awful knowing that you have to deal with this loss of 391 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:44,039 this amazing person in your life. But then it's compounded by the fact that 392 00:30:44,079 --> 00:30:48,799 you know that the person who did this is out there still not paying for 393 00:30:48,839 --> 00:30:52,920 it. I've said it before and I'll say it here again. I don't 394 00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:56,920 know how you all move forward one day at a time. I don't know 395 00:30:57,039 --> 00:31:00,359 that I could. Well I can tell you is you don't have a choice. 396 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,799 You just keep moving forward. This is one of those things. It's 397 00:31:03,839 --> 00:31:08,920 like an immovable block of stone in your life and you just have to work 398 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,799 your way around it and just keep going. You have no other choice. 399 00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:17,160 One of the things that was very interesting to me when we started talking about 400 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,480 next steps with both women, and I asked Janette and then Judy the next 401 00:31:21,519 --> 00:31:29,680 week about potential for advance forensic testing. And we're really pushing the FBI to 402 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:36,359 conduct advance forensic testing in the FBI cases. We also intend to try to 403 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:41,480 amp up the pressure on our friends at the Virginia State Police to conduct a 404 00:31:41,599 --> 00:31:45,640 top to bottom review of all of the available evidence. There's so much more 405 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:52,400 capability in terms of forensic testing, using much less DNA, consuming less of 406 00:31:52,440 --> 00:32:00,799 available samples, being able to handle DNA that's cross contaminated that's badly broken down 407 00:32:00,839 --> 00:32:07,640 because it's thirty to thirty four years old. We get the challenges that the 408 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:13,839 crime labs are facing, yet there have been significant developments and speaking frankly, 409 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:20,319 the private labs are ahead of many of the public labs, the law enforcement 410 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,720 labs in terms of this capability, and we're really going to continue to push 411 00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:31,400 our law enforcement partners to test and retest evidence. Now there is DNA evidence 412 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:36,920 in the Edwards Nobling case, as we understand it, it's pretty badly degraded. 413 00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,160 It's coming up in thirty four years old. The two bodies were exposed 414 00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:45,839 to water and likely seawater there heading out towards the ocean, so there's some 415 00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:50,720 salt there and the bodies weren't found for three days. Our understanding is that 416 00:32:50,759 --> 00:32:54,720 there may be testable DNA there. It has been tested in the past. 417 00:32:55,359 --> 00:33:01,200 Those tests were not conclusive. We understand that was the best shot we had 418 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:07,440 at the time. It was very interesting that both of our guests said they 419 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,759 would very much like to see additional testing done. And then I just tossed 420 00:33:10,759 --> 00:33:15,480 out a theoretical one that I've talked to law enforcement about is there may be 421 00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:22,759 very little DNA evidence left. Some tests do consume DNA. I asked the 422 00:33:22,759 --> 00:33:30,519 theoretical question a bot Jenette and Judy, if the testing consumed the last bit 423 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:34,319 of DNA available, would you be comfortable with that? I was very struck 424 00:33:34,359 --> 00:33:37,720 by the fact that both women said yes, absolutely, yes, What are 425 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:42,880 we waiting for? I was struck by that too. At least at that 426 00:33:43,039 --> 00:33:46,680 point you would know where you stand. You would know, Okay, we 427 00:33:46,759 --> 00:33:52,000 have done absolutely everything that we can do, and we didn't have an answer. 428 00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:54,799 That's something we have to live with or we've done everything we can. 429 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:59,759 We tossed a Hail Mary pass. It worked. Check out this awesome breakthrough. 430 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,519 We got the guy boom. We have answers, we have justice. 431 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,039 But either way, at least you know where you stand. This way, 432 00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:12,400 it's got to be just this endless, awful cycle of wondering. Are they 433 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,599 going to test it? Is there enough there to test? Is the technology 434 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:16,920 ever going to be okay? When are we going to get answers? That 435 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:22,039 has to be awful. That's like purgatory. I can't imagine what it must 436 00:34:22,119 --> 00:34:24,679 be like to live with that. I don't know if that's the same experience 437 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:30,239 you have had. Knowing that there is still evidence from Kathy and Becky's case, 438 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,800 they can be tested. But that's got to be the worst kind of 439 00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:37,199 limbo. I think that's a good characterization. There are sixteen parents of eight 440 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:43,159 victims in the Colonial Parkway murders. Now, whether these cases are related or 441 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,159 not, I don't know. I'll be honest as always and openly skeptical. 442 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:52,559 I'm not sure these murders aren't necessarily all related. While we've been waiting thirty 443 00:34:52,599 --> 00:34:58,159 to thirty four years, we've lost eight of the sixteen parents in this case, 444 00:34:58,639 --> 00:35:02,559 these people died, parents died waiting for answers. In this case, 445 00:35:04,079 --> 00:35:08,360 other people's parents are gone now. Both flowers mister and missus lower are gone. 446 00:35:08,559 --> 00:35:13,079 The calls, both the calls mister and missus call are gone. My 447 00:35:13,199 --> 00:35:15,480 parents are gone. My dad would probably want to say doctor Thomas because he 448 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:22,519 got u PhD later, But no disrespect dad. We've lost half the parents 449 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:28,719 waiting for answers. Yeah. Both Judy and Jeanette had similar responses, which 450 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,599 is what are we waiting for? Yeah? Take the hail Mary, Yeah, 451 00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:35,639 take the hill Mary. I'll take the hail Mary pass any day. 452 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:38,599 So far, I've talked to a lot of the family members, and we'll 453 00:35:38,639 --> 00:35:44,039 continue asking this question as we move forward. Most everybody has said the exact 454 00:35:44,119 --> 00:35:47,119 same thing, and nobody has ever pushed back and said, oh, let's 455 00:35:47,119 --> 00:35:51,599 wait a few more years, Yeah, to see if we get answers. 456 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,960 The science has gotten better and better. Let's take our best shot. That 457 00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:59,480 limbo, that feeling of when is somebody going to get around to this? 458 00:36:00,119 --> 00:36:07,239 Somebody going to decide, As somebody posted on our Facebook page the other day, 459 00:36:07,119 --> 00:36:12,800 test the GD evidence in all caps. Actually a couple of people have 460 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:17,880 posted them before I can understand that observation test the evidence, because then at 461 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:22,760 least you have these families at a place where they're like, Okay, we 462 00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,760 have an answer. It's not the answer that we want. There is no 463 00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:29,159 more DNA, but at least it's an answer. You can shut down that 464 00:36:29,199 --> 00:36:31,519 particular avenue and go Okay, the case isn't going to be solved through DNA. 465 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:36,840 What else do we got? Said? On that note, we'll let 466 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,000 you know that we're going to be continuing to explore the Colonial Parkway murders in 467 00:36:40,079 --> 00:36:45,840 the coming weeks, as well as getting into other issues, other cases and 468 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:52,840 other questions. Will be continuing to return to this case and asking these questions 469 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,519 until we get the answers that we seek, absolutely as we should. That's 470 00:36:57,519 --> 00:37:00,840 going to wrap it up for this episode of mind Over Murder Live edition of 471 00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:06,199 mind Over Murder Live from the Maple House. Thank you so much for listening. 472 00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:20,119 We'll see you next time. Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute 473 00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:25,400 Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 474 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:30,320 Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. Our theme music is by Kevin 475 00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:37,199 McLoud. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with crawl Space Media. You 476 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:40,440 can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. You can also follow 477 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:45,800 our page on the Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, and finally, you can 478 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:50,360 follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. Five six. Thank you for 479 00:37:50,480 --> 00:38:07,000 listening to mind Over Murder about