WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.960 --> 00:00:07.759 It's the Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast with Jack and carn Seo and JP Sorrows. 2 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:14.359 It's the LAPS Fans get all my ears and professional wrestling like you never seen 3 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:23.199 anything like it. And it's the LAPS fan name by the one in the 4 00:00:23.320 --> 00:00:26.800 ring to get about the slatter with the real King of swing with the bell 5 00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.879 goes name the kick like me, throne in the corner, bets rash like 6 00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:35.079 stay even Jerry King, you could say, off the crown nodding his head 7 00:00:35.200 --> 00:00:38.920 like hiss d low brown, which you get low down fro go even high 8 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.079 up, flip you on your head, but you know cool driver, you 9 00:00:42.159 --> 00:00:46.200 speaking more knowledge and dragon spits fire keep you more shocked than a head tree 10 00:00:46.359 --> 00:00:50.479 tire drop a more truth than the kind of snupber less you with a cooking 11 00:00:50.600 --> 00:00:55.200 mut roddy pipper a check a JP be like j y D drop the cupcakes 12 00:00:55.200 --> 00:00:59.920 ago the grain bar means the best podcast fun start to close, rif y'all 13 00:01:00.119 --> 00:01:04.799 bet a pose tlf Hopper comes roaring back in twenty twenty three after a long 14 00:01:04.959 --> 00:01:11.920 long slumber, and my God Boss was the solar system jolted awake by this 15 00:01:11.040 --> 00:01:18.920 selection. So true you know nothing animates the solar system quite like the discussion 16 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:22.359 of what does and doesn't belong. But the beauty of the hopper is it 17 00:01:22.400 --> 00:01:26.159 pushes us into areas that are beyond our comfort zone. And we've always been 18 00:01:26.920 --> 00:01:30.599 deeply satisfied with the results as folks have chosen things that we never would have 19 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:34.560 thought of, and we learned a whole lot about an aspect of the business 20 00:01:34.640 --> 00:01:38.719 or the participants in it that we didn't expect to. And I think aw 21 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:42.439 Revolution twenty twenty will be no exception. As gay or long time supporter puts 22 00:01:42.439 --> 00:01:47.519 it on the table this week, I agree. I also you know, 23 00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:53.760 I also think too that if anything too, these shows that are out of 24 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:57.560 the comfort zone, that are out of the timeline, the the lapsed timeline 25 00:01:59.159 --> 00:02:05.079 it What it also does too is it's always a reminder, much like the 26 00:02:05.120 --> 00:02:07.319 monthly calls, but at least for for those who don't have the balls and 27 00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:10.560 nut up on Patreon, these are this is the time that we can remind 28 00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:15.439 everybody why it used to be better. I think so. I think so, 29 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:17.719 And I think one of the things that's key is that we don't come 30 00:02:17.800 --> 00:02:21.639 in with that kind with those blinders on. I mean, you always make 31 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:23.759 the point. It's hilarious how people expect you to always hate a W. 32 00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:28.759 I know, I'm actually you know, when you talk about it, that's 33 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:31.919 not a reasonable expectation. I'm more or less a fan, you know, 34 00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:35.800 especially from this period. I wouldn't say I'm as much of a fan, 35 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:38.560 although I do go, you know, I go to Did's apartment to go 36 00:02:38.719 --> 00:02:42.639 see to watch the shows every now and again, the AW pay per views 37 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:46.319 because he always gets them, like I watched the one from Wembley a couple 38 00:02:46.319 --> 00:02:51.400 of weeks ago. Yes, that's not that's not someone who you know puts 39 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.680 up the Satanic cross when AW comes up. Yeah, no, I don't, 40 00:02:53.759 --> 00:02:57.360 I don't. I don't hate it. But it's funny. I I 41 00:02:57.639 --> 00:02:59.479 gone, I'm like, no, I don't. I don't hate it. 42 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.759 There's there's elements of it that I do hate Young Fucks and Kenny Omega, 43 00:03:04.840 --> 00:03:07.639 but you know, there are other elements of it that I think You're fine, 44 00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:14.520 totally fine. That's always the identity thing with AW is it's like the 45 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:17.639 gatekeepers to a W want you to think that unless you love Kenny Omega on 46 00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:22.960 Young Bucks, you can't love AW or can't like AW and as time is 47 00:03:23.000 --> 00:03:24.520 gone, it's become very clear that while they are very influential parts of the 48 00:03:24.520 --> 00:03:28.840 show, that they are about ten percent of a w in terms of viewing 49 00:03:28.879 --> 00:03:31.520 experience. Although I'll tell you what I'm you know, this is one of 50 00:03:31.560 --> 00:03:36.319 those situations where I'm you know, I'm not gonna I don't. I don't 51 00:03:36.919 --> 00:03:40.680 that. If anything, it's evidence that I don't hate to hate. I 52 00:03:40.719 --> 00:03:45.120 gotta say this is that this in this show the best Young Bucks match I've 53 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.840 ever seen, absolutely, and I actually not not even to the point where 54 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:52.599 it's like it still sucks, Like I actually thought this was a great match. 55 00:03:53.400 --> 00:03:54.680 I thought I was to hear you say that, not because I was 56 00:03:54.680 --> 00:04:00.479 hoping you'd love it, but because this is something that I really actually got 57 00:04:00.479 --> 00:04:03.000 excited about when Gabe selected the show for the Hoppers to see if you would 58 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:08.000 coming in cold, coming in with no idea of where this match has been 59 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.400 placed in the pantheon of US tag team wrestling matches, if it struck you 60 00:04:11.439 --> 00:04:15.439 with something special, and I'd love just to get your thoughts before we jump 61 00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:17.360 in and before we sort of color it with the context. I'm gonna lay 62 00:04:17.360 --> 00:04:20.759 down here and get into our deep dive of it. What did you think 63 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:24.759 of this match? Because this is you know, Moxley winning the title for 64 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.160 the first time is a significant part of the show, and we'll get to 65 00:04:27.199 --> 00:04:30.120 that, but really the calling card of this show is this, this tag 66 00:04:30.160 --> 00:04:33.800 match show Mega and Adam Page versus the Young Bucks. Just what washes over 67 00:04:33.879 --> 00:04:36.920 you as a as a lapsed fan on watching this for the first time, 68 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:40.639 Well, what it was. Number one was that, you know, I 69 00:04:40.720 --> 00:04:46.319 go in obviously expecting any young fuck match to be to be flippy, floppy, 70 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:50.439 horseshit and a million you know, super kicks to just you know and 71 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.920 all that shit. Any end. What I liked was that this was more 72 00:04:54.959 --> 00:04:58.800 like a wrestling match. This was like a real it felt It felt as 73 00:04:58.839 --> 00:05:01.920 old school as you can yet in the modern age of a wrestling match. 74 00:05:01.959 --> 00:05:04.759 And that's one thing. Not to interrupt your trend of thought. There no, 75 00:05:04.439 --> 00:05:06.759 no, that's one thing about the Young Bucks. It's like, yeah, 76 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:11.879 they are all of the things you said derisively about them. If you 77 00:05:11.920 --> 00:05:15.319 don't include all of the matches where they are the absolute opposite, it's like 78 00:05:15.360 --> 00:05:18.279 people can't accept that they can do the state of the art high flying. 79 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:21.519 And if you don't like that, that's fine, but they also can do 80 00:05:21.879 --> 00:05:26.399 whatever tag team style that you think is worthy. It's just you don't watch 81 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:30.240 those matches, right, You don't see those highlights. People don't make Twitter 82 00:05:30.319 --> 00:05:32.959 fights about those matches. And I think, to me, one of the 83 00:05:33.000 --> 00:05:39.120 things that I actually, you know, at least again watching it completely cold 84 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:41.959 and again, I've only watched it one time, and I took my notes 85 00:05:42.000 --> 00:05:44.720 and all that, and that's that's pretty much. That's all I've ever seen 86 00:05:44.720 --> 00:05:46.680 in this match. I've never gone back. I didn't go back and rewatch 87 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:53.000 it again. What I thought was that even even the more high flying, 88 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:57.079 flippy floppy shit that they did do in this because it certainly wasn't immune to 89 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:02.839 that, but it wasn't the kind of flippy floppy shit where I am sitting 90 00:06:02.920 --> 00:06:08.680 there wondering, wait a minute, did that really? Did that cause more 91 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:13.120 impact? Did that cause more pain to me? The stuff, the more 92 00:06:13.279 --> 00:06:17.240 high risk aerial stuff that they did, for the most part, I'm not 93 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.160 going to say its one hundred percent again, I don't remember completely, but 94 00:06:20.480 --> 00:06:28.319 it was it was more grounded. It was more like a okay that actually 95 00:06:29.079 --> 00:06:31.360 I could see that being more hurtful, you know, that could actually have 96 00:06:31.439 --> 00:06:36.959 more impact. It wasn't all the let's do eighteen somersaults in the air and 97 00:06:38.000 --> 00:06:43.120 just come down with a simple splash because you know it looks pretty that kind 98 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:45.680 of shit. It was like everything kind of had a reason for it, 99 00:06:45.720 --> 00:06:48.519 like it was actually about you know, it felt it felt more like a 100 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:53.199 who's gonna win? You know who, who actually is gonna come out on 101 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:57.759 top of this? It was much better than I ever would have expected, 102 00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:02.000 and I certainly don't expect it ever like a young fuck match. And for 103 00:07:02.040 --> 00:07:06.680 the Bucks, I mean, they're they're svelt. They're not They're not powerful 104 00:07:06.720 --> 00:07:10.480 looking guys, right right, They're not guys who are ever going to make 105 00:07:10.519 --> 00:07:14.000 any other style work for them. Besides, we use high flying to do 106 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:16.720 maximum damage. We use high flying because we can do that better than the 107 00:07:16.759 --> 00:07:19.160 guys were in the ring with ye. And you know, it's kind of 108 00:07:19.199 --> 00:07:23.079 like the Rockers in that regard. The Rockers were a bit more bricked up 109 00:07:23.079 --> 00:07:26.560 because of the era. They say they deely mocked up than that, right, 110 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.000 I mean even the Hardies are more fucking bricked up than these than these, 111 00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:34.000 Like they mean they look like they look like sixth graders, but like 112 00:07:34.360 --> 00:07:39.000 one applied carefully though to your point, it's like, it makes actually all 113 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:43.399 the psychological sense in the world that they would lean so heavily on aerial attacks, 114 00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:46.240 because how else are they going to beat every other tag team in the 115 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:50.079 world looking like that? You know, right right, they're not submission mavens, 116 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:53.319 and if they tried to be, you'd laugh that off. They're not 117 00:07:53.319 --> 00:07:55.800 going to be able to do power moves, you'd laugh that off. And 118 00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:00.240 so they understood that about the nature of their physicality early in their career and 119 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:03.920 built a style where you know, the high flying is flashing and pretty, 120 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:07.319 but when they do it, you're like, Okay, well that hurt more 121 00:08:07.360 --> 00:08:11.040 than if they didn't do that flip, right that that Yeah, that's a 122 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.160 spike pile driver with a flip instead of just a pile driver. That's a 123 00:08:13.720 --> 00:08:16.639 four or fifty with a guy in a more compromised position than if he was 124 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:20.680 just sitting there waiting. And I think what you pick up onto this match 125 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:24.360 two, Boss, and that's very very important is the style doesn't seem so 126 00:08:24.399 --> 00:08:28.560 contrived when the guys they were against are there and ready and in position and 127 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.559 have the yes know their way around, so that there's no moments where it 128 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.200 looks like people are sitting there with their arms around each other waiting for the 129 00:08:35.279 --> 00:08:41.600 dive, right exactly exactly. I agree with that, And you know too, 130 00:08:41.759 --> 00:08:46.960 what I what I also came out of this one thinking was they did 131 00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:54.879 a really good job playing with and and innovating from, innovating from and were 132 00:08:54.919 --> 00:09:03.919 innovating the the the traditional tag team match formula. Because every time I thought 133 00:09:03.919 --> 00:09:07.799 they like, there were at least sessions every time. I would say, 134 00:09:07.799 --> 00:09:11.240 there were maybe five times in this match where I thought I knew where they 135 00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:16.039 were going, and they just made a little twist that made it that much 136 00:09:16.039 --> 00:09:18.080 more interesting. And that's look, guys, I mean that's wrestling today, 137 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.759 you know, That's that's what makes a great match, is sort of downloading 138 00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:26.480 the audience's expectations and knowing sort of, if we do this, it really 139 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:31.080 will be a twist that people don't expect. You know, we joke about 140 00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.360 too many kickouts on finishers and things, and sometimes they do the opposite. 141 00:09:33.399 --> 00:09:35.639 Sometimes they you know, pin them on the first finisher, and that's the 142 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.639 shocking element, right. But I mean, I gotta say, there really 143 00:09:39.679 --> 00:09:41.440 is an art because when you when you tell yourself what's the difference between a 144 00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:45.320 great aw television match and a great pay per view match. What it usually 145 00:09:45.399 --> 00:09:48.159 is is just two or three or even to that. In that sense, 146 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:54.600 it's just two or three four more degrees of subverting expectations like yep, it's 147 00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:58.120 usually a kick out, but it's also you know, you've seen the sequence 148 00:09:58.120 --> 00:10:00.440 one hundred times, and they know you've seen it one hundred times, and 149 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:03.600 so they're going to add a little thing in there where it's like, oh 150 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:07.639 yeah. The only reason that always works is because ABC D always happens in 151 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:09.919 order. But if C doesn't happen, D doesn't happen right in terms of 152 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.159 like Omega going for the one wing an angel, but an arm is compromised 153 00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:18.320 and so and here's the thing too, that that to me, you know, 154 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:22.720 you look at a modern day wrestling to have that kind of of wherewithal 155 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:26.080 to remember that, hey, you know what, I got a bad arm, 156 00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:31.559 I really can't do my move. That to me is is is enough 157 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:35.039 for me to applaud them at times? Yeah, you know, I think 158 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:39.519 that's great. It's not it's not sycophantic to point this out about these guys. 159 00:10:39.519 --> 00:10:45.480 I don't understand where the reputation comes from that they don't have great psychology 160 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:48.759 when you watch any of their greatest matches, and with some exceptions, you 161 00:10:48.759 --> 00:10:52.600 know, I guess like the Luca Brothers, like you know, match they 162 00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:56.600 had was really about car crash table bumps, but that's ladder matches, and 163 00:10:56.639 --> 00:11:00.840 that like twenty percent of their matches are game matches. Like if you want 164 00:11:00.879 --> 00:11:03.320 to judge them on how they do in a straight match, watch their FDR 165 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.159 matches. Watch watch matches that are straight. Don't just watch the brawling weapons 166 00:11:07.200 --> 00:11:11.080 and table crash matches and act like you don't see what they can do when 167 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:15.360 that's not in play, and that this match has none of that. Yeah, 168 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:18.639 And I mean again, I don't want to say it's perfect. I'm 169 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.919 just skimming my stuff there. You know, there are two spots that I 170 00:11:20.960 --> 00:11:24.000 can't stand that that I can definitely say, so just so you know I'm 171 00:11:24.039 --> 00:11:30.879 not I'm not all right. There there are two spots in here that I 172 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:35.559 definitely cannot stand and that are are are are things that are immediately just they 173 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:41.000 turned me off. So you know that's forward to those. Yeah, because 174 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:43.120 in a lot of ways, this is considered kind of a perfect match. 175 00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:46.720 So I'd love to see what Yeah, sure, you got it. So 176 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:50.600 that defines the show again. Moxley, who was really the big acquisition when 177 00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:54.480 AW launched. We were there in Vegas of double or nothing when he came 178 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:56.320 out. Not a small deal. I still think it's the biggest mistake they 179 00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:01.039 made in the company bringing in Moxley. No, no, give him the 180 00:12:01.080 --> 00:12:07.120 title this soon? Really, yep? Why I think Jericho should have had 181 00:12:07.639 --> 00:12:13.759 at least at least an eighteen month reign, maybe two years before they took 182 00:12:13.759 --> 00:12:16.559 the belt off. Yep, well I give you this. I do remember 183 00:12:16.639 --> 00:12:20.320 feeling like it was a bit premature. Yep. I still think to that 184 00:12:20.399 --> 00:12:24.279 day, to this day, I actually still think that because no one has 185 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:31.200 had a no one has had a defining rain that makes the belt feel like 186 00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:39.480 something greater than here is a world championship. It just you know, like 187 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:43.159 nobody has had maybe MJF. Now he's coming up on a year, right, 188 00:12:43.679 --> 00:12:50.360 Yeah yeah, so maybe that, but like again, to really really 189 00:12:50.480 --> 00:12:54.879 drive it in. And I thought Chris Jericho was a great first champion. 190 00:12:54.879 --> 00:12:58.759 I was glad all the shit that kind of went down went down so that 191 00:12:58.879 --> 00:13:03.159 Jericho became the first champion because I thought that was so fitting that a guy 192 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:07.559 that a legend, you know, an old timer, have the belt. 193 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.480 And I felt he was just kind of getting into his groove by the time 194 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:15.039 by this show. And I remember when he lost and I was like, 195 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.240 damn, that was a big mistake. Fascinating. He should have kept it 196 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:20.759 for much, much longer. And what a twist, because you know, 197 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:22.240 if you had said, all right, you know, we're charting an eighteen 198 00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:26.120 month course with this guy, Let's not forget this is the last pay per 199 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:28.639 view before the pandemic. In fact, they're advertising shows on this pay per 200 00:13:28.679 --> 00:13:31.600 view that never end up happening, Matches that never end up happening due to 201 00:13:31.759 --> 00:13:35.240 lockdowns, including the first scheduled Blood and Guts match that was supposed to be 202 00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:39.039 in New Jersey that gets canceled at Prudential Center. And you wonder, even 203 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.799 if they did have a plan like that for Jericho Rain, if they get 204 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.039 ansty in the pandemic because those empty arena shows, it was like, we 205 00:13:46.080 --> 00:13:48.480 got to come up with something, you know. I remember there was the 206 00:13:48.559 --> 00:13:50.559 Matt Hardy debut that they were holding on too. There was the late Brodie 207 00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:54.440 Lee his debut that they were holding on too. There were two or three 208 00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:58.200 other big debuts that that happened during the pandemic. Staying came in where it 209 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.639 was like the beginning in the early days, it was like, need to 210 00:14:01.679 --> 00:14:03.399 hold off on these big debuts as long as we can so that when they 211 00:14:03.399 --> 00:14:05.840 come out, there's a crowd there and it seems like a big impactful moment. 212 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.840 Because you remember those early days of the pandemic, people had the naivete 213 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:11.279 to think that it could be two to three weeks or a month and we'll 214 00:14:11.279 --> 00:14:15.480 be back right right, And so there was this mentality of like, let's 215 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:18.440 hold our big bullets back, which slowly but surely as the months wore on, 216 00:14:18.519 --> 00:14:20.639 they started having to play these cards, and one of them was eventually 217 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:26.240 kidding Omega beating John Moxley on Dynamite with a wonderful angle that kind of you 218 00:14:26.240 --> 00:14:28.120 know, had almost like an impact wrestling crossover angle they did for a little 219 00:14:28.159 --> 00:14:31.440 while where returned heel and that was that was ti Arena too. So I 220 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:35.639 wonder, even if Jericho was to be the champion forever and ever, or 221 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:37.600 at least for a much longer rain, if when the pandemic hit they would 222 00:14:37.600 --> 00:14:41.039 have just said, no, we gotta do we wet do something to shake 223 00:14:41.080 --> 00:14:43.720 this up. Yeah, it's possible. It's very very possible. It just 224 00:14:45.840 --> 00:14:50.720 it it was like he just it just felt like it was just brand new 225 00:14:50.919 --> 00:14:56.440 and still and I just was like, you gotta have it's gotta be long. 226 00:14:56.720 --> 00:15:03.559 You have to define it with a long, long reign so that when 227 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.639 the guy who beats him eventually it's that much bigger of a deal. Right. 228 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:11.440 And in the early heady days of a w where you're like, oh, 229 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:15.519 all of my all of my fantasy rules of thumb could actually come true 230 00:15:15.559 --> 00:15:18.080 with this promotion, Yeah you did. That was one of the things you 231 00:15:18.120 --> 00:15:20.960 told yourself that these guys were going to have long title reigns as a general 232 00:15:20.039 --> 00:15:22.559 rule. And when Moxley won, you're like, oh, they're kind of 233 00:15:24.519 --> 00:15:26.080 they kind of get restless after six months, it turns out. Yeah, 234 00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:31.960 yeah, it just like it was it just yeah. I And it made 235 00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:33.879 me lose a lot of interest in just kind of the thing. I mean, 236 00:15:33.879 --> 00:15:37.519 I listened, I was like I said to myself, I was like, 237 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:39.960 shit, like you know, I remember when when when when we saw 238 00:15:41.039 --> 00:15:43.559 Moxley come in, I was like, whoa, Like that was it was 239 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:46.240 a big deal. And shit, they're gonna give him a fucking belt, 240 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:48.399 but how can they give him the belt right away? And I was like 241 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:50.799 yeah, I was like, oh, they did it, but it just 242 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:54.440 didn't. It didn't for me. It didn't mean as much very interesting. 243 00:15:56.120 --> 00:15:56.759 It was kind of like it was nice because, like you said, there 244 00:15:56.759 --> 00:16:00.080 were a bunch of circumstances. Originally supposed to be Adam Paid versus poc aka 245 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:03.039 Nevel as the first AW World title match, and they were going to put 246 00:16:03.039 --> 00:16:07.159 the world title on a guy that was more representative of like the younger breed, 247 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:10.919 the older, the veteran guys, the bigger, sort of pre made 248 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:11.879 stars would have had matches, but it would have been for the title. 249 00:16:11.879 --> 00:16:18.919 And his things shook out with difficulty securing pack and things. They put Jericho 250 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.399 in the mantument with Kenny a Meg on that show. It actually worked nicely 251 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:25.600 because it was almost like he was that he was that WW generation that was 252 00:16:25.639 --> 00:16:27.519 like more antagonistic towards the spirit of AW. So it was kind of like, 253 00:16:27.519 --> 00:16:30.960 as long as he held the belt, the crowd didn't react to him 254 00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:33.840 this way. They absolutely embraced him. He did a little bit of the 255 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:37.720 bubbly backstage and that became legendary. R made t shirts off that he was 256 00:16:37.799 --> 00:16:41.919 like chomp beyond. Then he found all these ways to make it very hilarious 257 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:44.240 and entertaining that he had the belt. So it wasn't like people were hating 258 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:47.799 the fact that this you know, WWB legend was the first AW champion. 259 00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:49.639 But at the same time, you're right, eighteen months of that would have 260 00:16:49.639 --> 00:16:53.720 been like, can somebody that we identify as like the spirit of AW win 261 00:16:53.799 --> 00:16:56.720 this thing? Instead, Like I felt like there was no there was no 262 00:16:56.919 --> 00:17:03.639 moment where people were like, like people are kind of at with the Roman 263 00:17:03.679 --> 00:17:06.519 reigns now, you know, there was no moment where it was like, 264 00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:11.440 Okay, we get a fucking kill this guy and and you know, and 265 00:17:11.480 --> 00:17:12.680 that would have been you know, they could have kind of built it up 266 00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.759 in a way. Maybe there were some guys who came really close and and 267 00:17:17.759 --> 00:17:19.920 and when you said, got to kill this guy, you need the fans 268 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:27.599 hungering for a title switch, Yes, yes, and you know, the 269 00:17:27.599 --> 00:17:33.240 the to the point where like they could start doing some you know, maybe 270 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:38.480 some honky tonk man type screw jobs towards the very end of it where where 271 00:17:38.519 --> 00:17:42.839 they're just desperate, you know to to keep you know, he's got his 272 00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:47.799 crew desperate to keep the belt on him. And then finally, you know, 273 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.200 you have just a crazy overbooked match where it's this epic final title turn 274 00:17:52.640 --> 00:17:56.880 for with whoever. I don't know, it could have been anybody, anybody 275 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.839 in his bunch as you know, and Cody actually, in my opinion, 276 00:18:00.200 --> 00:18:03.400 that that to me was a whole fucking thing. Like you know, I 277 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:07.359 always I always dreamt of that. That that to me was it is that 278 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:11.640 is that it should have gone from Jericho to Cody. Yeah, well they 279 00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:15.480 already done an angle word he'd never get a title shot as long as a 280 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:18.880 Jericho held it or like ever what it was? He lost to Jericho in 281 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:22.160 November that year, and the stipulation was Cody could never get a title matching 282 00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:26.680 and MJF pretending to be Cody's friend at the time cost him that match. 283 00:18:26.720 --> 00:18:30.200 It is deeply apologetic and then turns on him. Thus we get the MJF 284 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:34.039 Cody match on this show Revolution. Yes, but I remember thinking like the 285 00:18:34.119 --> 00:18:37.480 person as much as John Moxley proved to be a very good champion for them, 286 00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:41.240 and it's basically the MVP of the company because he stepped up. Whenever 287 00:18:41.279 --> 00:18:45.559 See Him Punk Bullshit blows up and there's nobody to turn to for his spot, 288 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:48.680 and Moxley steps up. He was the interim champion. Just now he 289 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:51.279 headlined the show they just did in Chicago. With See Him Punk having been 290 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.039 fired, they were able to move his match with Orange Cassidy to the main 291 00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:56.759 event, and it was. It was a totally acceptable and serviceable pay per 292 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.480 view main event because he brought Orange Cassidy up to a main event level. 293 00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:04.279 In twenty twenty, he was Wrestler of the Year, Empty Arena MVP in 294 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:07.880 terms of, like, you know, defending the championship and away on television 295 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.440 despite no fans that really held up the importance of the title. Still, 296 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:17.119 he wasn't a guy that was sort of identified with the rebellious spirit of AW 297 00:19:17.240 --> 00:19:18.440 He had it and then he made the jump, but he was a WW 298 00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:22.559 made guy. To me, the guy who should have been Jericho should have 299 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:26.319 been Paige Omega, somebody that had never been in WWE, right, it 300 00:19:26.440 --> 00:19:30.279 was one of their originals. When it was Roxley was like, well, 301 00:19:30.559 --> 00:19:33.480 is this belt just going to be passed around amongst guys they think are big 302 00:19:33.559 --> 00:19:36.160 enough stars from WWE, you know, and when Punk came in, he 303 00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:40.039 immediately won the belt too, like his Khan basically in the back of his 304 00:19:40.119 --> 00:19:41.920 mind, not interested in put in the belt in anybody that hasn't been in 305 00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:45.839 WWE. Of course, Omega Page got reins, and Omega had a great 306 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:49.440 reign. It was very angle heavy. His reign was like almost like an 307 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:53.200 angle as much as it was a rain. But I always thought, you 308 00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:57.200 know, until Kenny Omega is the guy as the world champion, as the 309 00:19:57.200 --> 00:20:00.039 guy that you point to as the champion, as the guy caring aw is 310 00:20:00.079 --> 00:20:07.000 not quite capturing yep, the energy that made it possible in the first place, 311 00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:11.119 that kind of fan pushback against the WWE way of presenting whistling. Yeah, 312 00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:15.759 so, you know, and he got really badly injured during the course 313 00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:18.119 of his title reign, so it was somewhat truncated due to the fact that 314 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:19.839 he needed to take after he lost the belt. He took several months off 315 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:23.160 and he was actually much worse for wear than I think anyone appreciated at the 316 00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:26.720 time Omega. So it's not like it was there for the taking, but 317 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:30.440 at all it's all on the table when you watch this match, the show 318 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:32.960 of course, lap serendipity being what it is, you watch this show and 319 00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.680 it's like Jesus, every single thing that's happened of consequence in aw can be 320 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.920 somewhat traced to this night in terms of what was set in motion and what 321 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:45.359 wasn't. But we'll look forward to breaking into it. And if you're wondering 322 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:48.839 why, it's not that Gabe from the Solar System picked the show for the 323 00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:51.920 Hopper because he just you know, thinks all of these things and wants our 324 00:20:51.920 --> 00:20:55.680 opinions on these matches, it's because it is a personal story, yeah, 325 00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.839 to tell. And well, of course we'll get to that about this show 326 00:20:57.839 --> 00:21:02.319 and his actual first hand involvement in helping make it a reality in the first 327 00:21:02.319 --> 00:21:04.839 place, yep, which is kind of a perspective we've never had here in 328 00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:10.079 the lapsed fan. Yeah, played a part in making a show happen. 329 00:21:10.119 --> 00:21:15.119 This is a first Yeah, And I think it's you know, and also 330 00:21:15.200 --> 00:21:17.880 you know, say what you will. I mean, it's it's it doesn't 331 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:22.759 matter, like you know, you get deems. Let let the people if 332 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.880 someone if someone's forking over that kind of fucking cash to pick a show, 333 00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.720 I don't care what they pick. Right now. Let let's cater to people 334 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.240 who don't pay anything in pirate the show. That sounds like a better plan. 335 00:21:33.359 --> 00:21:34.920 Yeah, yeah, that's a good idea that we're not you know, 336 00:21:36.720 --> 00:21:38.359 we're not your marks in that regard. We're not going to be caught flat 337 00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:42.240 footed. We will cash checks and the Solar System would be more than happy 338 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.759 to write them. And that's why we are who we are because at the 339 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:52.839 core are people that understand that only cunts take things for free. That's right, 340 00:21:52.279 --> 00:21:57.279 except read and we don't. We're not cunts. I'll say this. 341 00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:02.759 They take things for free when they're not offered for free. So what we're 342 00:22:02.799 --> 00:22:08.319 excited to break into this thing, and we are obliged to of course before 343 00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.440 we commence with business, tip our cap to members of the Solar System who 344 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:18.119 have made the Patreon pop so much lately in terms of just fulsome discussion, 345 00:22:18.200 --> 00:22:23.200 dialogue, great sort of like things set in motion, particularly due to under 346 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:26.400 the cinemat. I mean, we've just hit our episode at the boss brought 347 00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:30.799 out both barrels for these things. If you've hesitated to go through the EPN 348 00:22:30.839 --> 00:22:34.000 above tier, now is the time. The files that are sitting there for 349 00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:40.920 both the Wrestler with Mickey Ark and the Wrestler from nineteen seventy four four which 350 00:22:40.960 --> 00:22:44.559 four the Boss had a surprise revisit of that. Of course, we did 351 00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:48.279 review this movie and typical sort of TLF format to launch the Life and Death 352 00:22:48.319 --> 00:22:53.039 of the AWA journey years ago, but it did not. That's not cinemat 353 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.000 treatment. That's not what the Boss does that. You know, we weren't 354 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.279 getting surgical. We were just looking for the essence of the AWA to start 355 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:04.559 the journey. Boss Man gets into the the actual movie mechanics. Fucking you 356 00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:08.720 know again, if you look, if you go to I'll just say this, 357 00:23:08.759 --> 00:23:12.839 you go to IMDb, all right, and you look up the Wrestler 358 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:18.160 in nineteen seventy four. You click on the writer a guy named Eugene Gump. 359 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.640 There's nothing there. There's nothing there. You can't find much about this 360 00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:26.480 fucking clown just by searching his name, because usually if you no matter what 361 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.799 it is, even if you fucking put put quotation marks around Eugene Gump when 362 00:23:30.799 --> 00:23:33.079 you do a Google search, mostly comes up as far as Gump. Shit. 363 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:38.200 So no, but I mean, you tell me, did we did 364 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:42.720 we produce a life story for this guy? Oh? That's the thing. 365 00:23:42.839 --> 00:23:45.720 It's just like the main show. There is just like there's no telling where 366 00:23:47.200 --> 00:23:49.519 the most money revelations are going to come from when you start turning over stones 367 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.160 on a movie that's wrestling adjacent, which of course is the concept of those 368 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:56.759 unfamiliar yea under the cinemat features of Wrestler is about wrestling, has some connectivity 369 00:23:56.799 --> 00:24:00.799 to wrestling, and of course the wrestler. But she's with Verne Gandhi and 370 00:24:00.839 --> 00:24:06.200 the whole crew. Lear's, Dusty, Dick Murdock, Billy Robinson. Yeah, 371 00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:11.160 you know, Triple h. They're all in the movie. Michael's is 372 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:18.759 in it. Yep. Cacular even even a weird, a weird surprise appearance 373 00:24:18.960 --> 00:24:23.200 from Orange Cassidy in the movie. That was surprising. I didn't I completely 374 00:24:23.200 --> 00:24:27.400 miss that the first time around. Uh just you know, you never know 375 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.119 where you're gonna end up. You're thinking, oh my god, this is 376 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:33.480 a great movie to John dive into because there's wrestler X No, it's about 377 00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:42.200 Gump, his family and his history and his troubled fucking upbringing. I can't 378 00:24:42.279 --> 00:24:45.839 I can't even begin to tell you. And it was just it was a 379 00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.160 joy too because when we did it the first time. It was sort of 380 00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:52.119 like a deep dive fashion where we took our copious notes and talked it through. 381 00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:55.759 We didn't watch it along. Yeah, no, no, and so 382 00:24:56.599 --> 00:24:59.200 cinemat fun as we were able to do that. And it's a truithic for 383 00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:03.960 another episode. Watch the fucking just watch all and actually you know what, 384 00:25:04.119 --> 00:25:07.759 and you know, I'll say, we even found We even found Eugene Gump 385 00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:11.240 in the movie. He is in the movie, not much more than Eugene 386 00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.839 Gump, but absolutely real findings and absolutely and the Mickey Rocks Show, I 387 00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.960 mean, some of the most fun I've had doing cinemats. So much truth 388 00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.680 laid Bear in that movie. You know, it's like it crystal, so 389 00:25:22.720 --> 00:25:26.680 much truth laid Bear and Mickey Rourke to absolutely I know, to say nothing 390 00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.000 of his life story, which of course is is cracked open for the world 391 00:25:30.039 --> 00:25:33.559 to see on the show, but it laid Bear a rule for me. 392 00:25:33.640 --> 00:25:38.039 It's like, once you start to look too old for long hair, you 393 00:25:38.079 --> 00:25:45.640 are now beginning to illustrate some of the less glamorous realities of the professional Yes, 394 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:48.720 yes, yes, as much as Jericho still knocks it out of the 395 00:25:48.759 --> 00:25:52.880 park today, the hair is a problem Edge's hair was a problem till he 396 00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:56.400 cut it on our suggestion. The the thing, the one thing I will 397 00:25:56.440 --> 00:26:02.279 say about about about Jericho's hair though, because he's like been playing the aging 398 00:26:02.359 --> 00:26:07.319 rocker. It works for him because it's like it's it's done, it's almost 399 00:26:07.519 --> 00:26:11.319 done. It's it's long to antagonize. Well, you know, it's funny. 400 00:26:11.440 --> 00:26:14.240 I've gone back and forth on that in that I don't really know if 401 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:18.200 he knows he's playing the aging rocker. I don't think he actually would appreciate 402 00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:22.759 that characterization. But if you just you know, if you just tell yourself 403 00:26:22.759 --> 00:26:25.680 he's doing that, it's great. Yeah, I mean, even if he 404 00:26:25.720 --> 00:26:30.240 isn't, it's kind of like it just makes a very antagonistic character even if 405 00:26:30.240 --> 00:26:32.519 he doesn't know, because it makes it much more true to life, because 406 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:36.359 dude, you're an aging rocker or is that? Yeah? I mean able 407 00:26:36.359 --> 00:26:38.200 to sing his way to the ring in Wembley, that was a pretty cool 408 00:26:38.559 --> 00:26:41.559 thing he was able to do. Yeah, yeah, with Fausy on hand. 409 00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:48.000 At that's at that pack stadium. So uh so that's there under the 410 00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:52.079 cinemat for you. It's it's really it's really the most amazing, you know, 411 00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:53.440 period of time we've had over there, and I'm sure Boss has got 412 00:26:53.519 --> 00:26:57.880 sick, sick ideas in his mind for well, scary movie season. You 413 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:02.319 got it, you got it. As the leaves are about to turn. 414 00:27:03.359 --> 00:27:07.359 It's right around the corner. That's all I'm gonna say. Well, preparations 415 00:27:07.359 --> 00:27:11.920 have you made in terms of just the season, not necessarily cinema? Oh, 416 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:15.559 I've been well. I mean, first of all, we've already visited 417 00:27:15.920 --> 00:27:21.839 and and started looking at Halloween decorations. We've visited the uh, the local 418 00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:27.279 Spirit Halloween store establishment already. That's the first run through, because they do 419 00:27:27.359 --> 00:27:32.440 I do appreciate that they change up there their stuff as the season goes on. 420 00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.519 I have had Halloween. It's a lesser extent Christmas. I do like 421 00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:38.720 that soft launch where it's like you're so early that there's no pressure. You're 422 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.200 simply assessing what's new. Yep, yep, that's exactly it. Design, 423 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:47.400 What are what are some of the marquee items for the year, you know? 424 00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:56.240 And uh, we've I've had two two pumpkin spice lattes thus far. 425 00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:03.319 Despite the fact that the that the weather has gone from the incredibly beautiful chill 426 00:28:04.160 --> 00:28:11.119 crispness that it was days ago to this fucking peak summer heat, that over 427 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:12.920 day, weekend, weekend kick in the ass, Like, no, not 428 00:28:12.920 --> 00:28:17.039 out of the woods yet, No, it certainly was. Let's say Labor 429 00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:18.559 Day was certainly was just that it was a labor but up here in the 430 00:28:18.559 --> 00:28:22.640 Northeast a couple of days in August, man, it was like, wow, 431 00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:26.480 I can step with the windows open. Yeah, like ac was off 432 00:28:26.519 --> 00:28:30.799 and we just had the windows open for three days straight and it was amazing, 433 00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:37.839 amazing. So I'm I'm, I'm ready. I'm scary. Is so 434 00:28:37.920 --> 00:28:40.720 fun if you don't know under the cinemat for your Patreon dollar, I mean 435 00:28:41.039 --> 00:28:45.200 so many wrestling gimmicks, characters inspired the late Bray Wyatt and Cape Fear. 436 00:28:45.359 --> 00:28:48.240 You know you think about that. Actually that came right to mind when he 437 00:28:48.359 --> 00:28:52.759 passed, and just you know, it's great because Boss always finds these deep 438 00:28:52.799 --> 00:28:57.400 cut wrestling involvements and his favorite scary movies. And he's a real scary movie 439 00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:00.920 offficionado. I can't recommend it highly enough and is somebody that just shows up 440 00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:04.160 with bells on to just take in what he's got, kind of like the 441 00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.559 reverse of what we do on the wrestling show. I can't tell you it 442 00:29:07.640 --> 00:29:11.000 must be as much fun for you because I just I just sit there and 443 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:15.960 I'm saying, I never know where he's gonna take exactly I have I have. 444 00:29:15.079 --> 00:29:18.160 I mean, you know, certainly there are some times where it's just 445 00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.400 absolute I kind of know where we're gonna go with it. But and I 446 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:26.160 know, you know, some of the some of the tricks that I know 447 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.720 are gonna are gonna be right there. But then there are some and let 448 00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:33.119 me tell you this year, the movies, the movies that I have planned 449 00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:41.880 for Scary Movie Season are it's I'm I'm I'm very very excited. I'm very 450 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:45.200 excited, and I'm very excited to see where it goes because there are some 451 00:29:45.279 --> 00:29:52.240 areas where I we're gonna we're gonna dive into some some wrestling stuff that we've 452 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:59.839 never even we've never gone before on any format, on any format, stuff 453 00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:03.720 that you probably know more about than I do. I spell Lucca coming, 454 00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:07.680 not Lucha, not yet. We're not doing We're not doing Wrestlemaniac yet. 455 00:30:07.759 --> 00:30:11.640 Not to say something the list, it's definitely on the list. Wrestlemaniac is 456 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:17.119 on the list. But you know, just some tell me a lot of 457 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:21.359 fun. Long way of saying, patrion dot com slash the lapsed fan the 458 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:27.400 destination for wrestling podcast listeners who consider themselves elite and worthy of the most intensive 459 00:30:27.680 --> 00:30:33.759 and exhaustive research you'll find on any wrestling podcast, or really any podcast of 460 00:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.079 any type. And we've extended to the movie side. If I'm gonna say 461 00:30:37.279 --> 00:30:41.839 to regarding the movie thing, I want to say this I've listened to. 462 00:30:42.160 --> 00:30:48.720 I always go searching for any podcasts on if you look at any podcasts on 463 00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:52.400 the Wrestler, the nineteen seventy four Wrestler, and I don't like too to 464 00:30:52.400 --> 00:30:55.880 my own horn. Actually, the only reason why I'm too to my own 465 00:30:55.880 --> 00:31:03.400 horn is because of how annoying it is. Actually that nobody actually does work 466 00:31:03.519 --> 00:31:07.920 on these shows, on any other on shows. And that goes for you 467 00:31:07.960 --> 00:31:11.960 too, I mean, Jack, that's you too for this, because nobody 468 00:31:11.000 --> 00:31:17.240 fucking does the amount of research for a wrestling show that you do. And 469 00:31:18.160 --> 00:31:21.319 everyone just reviews shit. Everyone just gives their opinion, which is fine. 470 00:31:21.359 --> 00:31:22.519 It's a genre of show. I get it, and there's a lot of 471 00:31:22.720 --> 00:31:29.480 audience for that. But it doesn't it doesn't leave my heart full. It 472 00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.160 doesn't satisfy me. No. I want to be able to say, like, 473 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.799 we did a show about a topic, and you put that on the 474 00:31:33.839 --> 00:31:37.279 shelf, man, and that's what you need to know about it because the 475 00:31:37.279 --> 00:31:40.960 book is closed. You know, we very with the exception of circumstances like 476 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:44.200 this where the hopper challenges us to hate a contemporary stuff. We're talking about 477 00:31:44.200 --> 00:31:45.759 closed books. The beginning, middle, and end of the story is told 478 00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:51.119 and I'll get to Terry Funk in a moment, don't you worry. And 479 00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:53.480 now it's time for us to go to work. And I don't feel satisfied 480 00:31:53.559 --> 00:31:59.720 unless I can tell myself, all right, that show is there and that's 481 00:31:59.720 --> 00:32:01.960 every thing everyone needs to know about it. I'm not saying do stuff can't 482 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:06.440 come out. I'm not saying great podcasters and researchers and writers can't take it 483 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.240 to another place. I'm obliged, and we're obliged and indebted to the people 484 00:32:09.240 --> 00:32:13.599 that have done so much firsthand reporting on wrestling history. You know, totally. 485 00:32:14.039 --> 00:32:15.680 We were not an interview show, and we rely on people who have 486 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:20.599 taken the time to build up, you know, a franchise of interviewing wrestlers 487 00:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.079 about the past and and and actors right as well, got the past. 488 00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:30.200 But it's like, yeah, our genre is like it's all you need to 489 00:32:30.200 --> 00:32:35.119 know. It's the It's like the Encyclopedia entry for the subject to your yes. 490 00:32:36.240 --> 00:32:37.279 Yes, So, I mean, you know, if that's not worth 491 00:32:37.319 --> 00:32:43.519 it to you, then I'm okay. You're you're probably a fucking asshole, 492 00:32:43.519 --> 00:32:46.440 but it's fine, You're You're free to be that. But Patreon dot com 493 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:50.480 slash the Lapsed Fan is the place to prove yourself worthy. And that's just 494 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:52.839 the ept here. I mean, we cost to get under the cinemat as 495 00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:54.880 well as our monthly w W pay per view live calls. As again to 496 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:58.559 your point earlier, we dive into the modern product so we can make the 497 00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:02.079 case that much more strongly when we identify what used to be better about it. 498 00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:05.599 You have that feeling somewhere in your gut. We'll tell you why you 499 00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.440 have that feeling, and we'll make it okay. Yes, won't make we 500 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.839 won't make it something that it makes you enemies on Twitter. It's it will 501 00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:15.079 make it okay. And uh just at Payback w B Payback the September show 502 00:33:15.119 --> 00:33:20.000 and Boss deeply enjoyed seth Rowlins versus Nkomras, you would imagine. So that's 503 00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:22.079 there for your for the taking. Do you remember any of that? You're 504 00:33:22.079 --> 00:33:25.079 pretty wind up by that time. I was pretty wind up. I do. 505 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:29.480 I do remember. I remember enough of it that I was miserable. 506 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:31.240 So that's there for you, and it will continue to be there for you, 507 00:33:31.279 --> 00:33:35.440 of course. But that's to say nothing of the rustle Mommy A tier, 508 00:33:35.759 --> 00:33:38.160 the fucking note tier, the mother of ultimers. You know you do 509 00:33:38.200 --> 00:33:42.920 that. It's it's very expensive. You do that because you want It's like 510 00:33:43.160 --> 00:33:45.920 you get that badge, right, yes, you get that badge. That's 511 00:33:45.039 --> 00:33:49.039 rarely the value you also get, of course, Mama sorrow watching matches, 512 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.720 selecting back on your living room carpet with your mom making smartness comments in the 513 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:57.119 back of the room where you're watching wrestling, a reminder of how sort of 514 00:33:57.839 --> 00:34:01.559 infantile and foolish, in juvenile it is to follow pro wrestling in your adulthood. 515 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:07.599 Gave about that soon as well. Absolutely, And you know if you 516 00:34:07.640 --> 00:34:12.960 can't, if you can't handle hearing the remarks of an old New England lady, 517 00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:16.320 then just go fund yourself. Well, not a party can handle it. 518 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:19.599 We get it. It's not for everybody. The Moat tier is not 519 00:34:19.639 --> 00:34:22.400 for everybody. We we don't judge anyone who's not in the Moat tier. 520 00:34:22.519 --> 00:34:28.920 We judge people who don't understand why we would pay special deference to the Moat 521 00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:30.320 tier. And when we're on the road, we're thinking to them. When 522 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:35.000 we're creating exclusive audio, we're thinking of them when we're coming up with plans 523 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:37.760 to celebrate our tenth year next year, TLFX, you better believe the Moat 524 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.119 tier is going to get way more than the other. Uh sort of a 525 00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:45.239 constituency that we have out there. It's only right, it's only sensible, 526 00:34:45.280 --> 00:34:49.840 it's only I don't know the way the entire world works without exception if you 527 00:34:49.840 --> 00:34:58.079 don't count declining regimes. I should say to the most recent the most recent 528 00:34:58.079 --> 00:35:04.239 Wrestle Mammia that was that was dropped was the War Games match from Fall Brawl 529 00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:09.400 ninety three. Wow, so that must find a navigator through. My mom 530 00:35:09.440 --> 00:35:14.440 hates War Games matches. She's not a fan, not a fan. Does 531 00:35:14.480 --> 00:35:17.559 it all get bloody and wait to find out why? So that's all there. 532 00:35:17.840 --> 00:35:21.079 We've set our piece ad free versions of the show. You get the 533 00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:23.400 deep Dive a day earlier than anybody else. All kinds of stuff deep in 534 00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:27.599 the archives that we've done over the years, connecting the spots and Hall of 535 00:35:27.679 --> 00:35:30.280 Shame and Pain and Fable for three and all kinds of wacky shit and and 536 00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:35.199 a lot of them too now have been you know, we're trying to for 537 00:35:35.239 --> 00:35:38.639 the Patreon folks, we're trying to catalog them and actually have collections up there. 538 00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:43.559 So yes, that's a new option available to us. That it makes, 539 00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:46.599 It makes it easier a little more intuitive and how we display the old 540 00:35:46.639 --> 00:35:51.760 files. But yeah, that's that's kind of the story. That's kind of 541 00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:54.719 the place to be. And it's also just great to to exchange you know, 542 00:35:54.800 --> 00:36:00.519 dialogue with lapsed fan Solar System members. Uh, it's really great to 543 00:36:00.639 --> 00:36:04.800 see people take up things that we bring up on the show that we're not 544 00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:07.840 sure about ye or you know, hear contrary opinions that we might not have 545 00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:12.159 considered about things we say on the show. It's just we can always count 546 00:36:12.199 --> 00:36:15.880 on the Patreon members to fill any gaps that might be remaining in our quest 547 00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:20.960 to say everything that needs to be said. And that's a really powerful things. 548 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.039 That's not something I don't think every podcast enjoys is the security of knowing 549 00:36:25.039 --> 00:36:29.719 that if you do miss something, you've got the smartest listeners in all of 550 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:32.760 podcasting that I agree, make up on it and present it. They never 551 00:36:32.800 --> 00:36:37.239 cease to amaze me how resourceful they can be in finding things turning over rocks. 552 00:36:37.239 --> 00:36:39.320 I mean, look no further than the long lost episode of Brooke Knows 553 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:44.320 Best, like totally. You know, you mentioned it, You put it 554 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.599 out in the ether, You consider it because you've exhausted your resources and where 555 00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:50.000 your mind goes to find something. Your rabbit holes have been as you just 556 00:36:50.039 --> 00:36:52.559 figure it's it's it's a lost cause and you say as much, but you 557 00:36:52.599 --> 00:36:57.159 still kind of put it out there with the express intent of somebody saying, 558 00:36:57.159 --> 00:37:00.840 oh really, And of course Kurt stepped forward and found it. You know. 559 00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:04.039 It's just that's a powerful thing, and that's something I think unique to 560 00:37:04.079 --> 00:37:07.920 us that we're going to leverage and we're going to stay erect and hard throughout 561 00:37:07.960 --> 00:37:13.159 the process, Thank you very much. And of course, another thing that 562 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:17.199 was sort of like built in the cauldron of of TLF patrons was the LAPST 563 00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:22.119 Archive Transcription Service LATS for short. This is something we're always proud to shout 564 00:37:22.119 --> 00:37:30.119 out or great supporter Haystacks Calloon on Patreon has been working like a monk transcribing 565 00:37:30.440 --> 00:37:34.800 the tlf archive and it's such a great way to help celebrate tlf X coming 566 00:37:34.880 --> 00:37:37.760 up. It's such a great way to mind the catalog. You know, 567 00:37:37.800 --> 00:37:42.079 they're rippy things that we've said or mentioned that you just can't remember date and 568 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:44.480 time which show it might have been, because you know, so many of 569 00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:46.679 our tangents have nothing to do with the title of the show. We can 570 00:37:46.760 --> 00:37:52.719 always tell them, but you know, to the entire Solar system, including 571 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:57.760 freeloading bitches. This is a timestamped text searching of tlf It's now possible thanks 572 00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.920 to the scribes and their work on the LATS project. Anyone who listens to 573 00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:05.960 the podcast can now find virtually anything that might be looking for, including inside 574 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.760 jokes, obscure references, as long as they have a Google account and email 575 00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:16.559 Lapsed dot Scribes at gmail dot com Lapsed dot scribes dot com to arrange getting 576 00:38:16.599 --> 00:38:21.199 the link. They're sort of a quid pro quo. It's what we appreciate, 577 00:38:21.239 --> 00:38:23.000 folks, you know, sort of like Wikipedia, not only accessing the 578 00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:29.039 resource, but with the kind of agreement that you'll help build up the resource 579 00:38:29.159 --> 00:38:31.960 and make it more fulsome and you know, edit things that you know, 580 00:38:32.119 --> 00:38:37.559 transcription software might get wrong or whatever the case might be. It's it's very 581 00:38:37.639 --> 00:38:40.079 much like a community wiki for the show. But it's not something that we're 582 00:38:40.079 --> 00:38:44.840 just blasting out to everybody. It's something that we really want to be a 583 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:47.159 precious resource to those who who cared the most about the show. I think 584 00:38:47.159 --> 00:38:51.840 that makes the most sense, and so you want to you want to really 585 00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:55.559 get get it, get a sense it makes possible like cliffs notes for our 586 00:38:55.599 --> 00:39:00.880 TLFT journeys. It's really great. So I really encourage you to reach out 587 00:39:00.960 --> 00:39:05.360 Lapstop scribes at Gmail get access, talk about what it takes help us out. 588 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:10.400 It's deeply appreciated in that spirit. One of the things that always sort 589 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:15.039 of comes up and sprouts up organically when we're on the air is T shirt 590 00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:17.320 ideas. Oh yes, and boss, I know the Lapsed Sweatshop has been 591 00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:21.800 working hard over pro wrestlings dot com slash the lapst fan Why don't you tell 592 00:39:21.840 --> 00:39:24.360 us we got the latest and the greatest. Oh absolutely, We've got certainly 593 00:39:24.519 --> 00:39:32.960 some some beautiful, beautiful UH new shirts up from UH I mean, obviously 594 00:39:32.960 --> 00:39:40.239 the TNH shirts hold on trying to pull it up. Here are up and 595 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:45.840 about. We got certain Hogan brother, We've got the You're talking to Frankie 596 00:39:45.920 --> 00:39:51.000 shirt. Yeah, the only the MVPs. Can I get it. It's 597 00:39:51.119 --> 00:39:52.880 a it's a heavy left, but man, people hit us on Twitter sing 598 00:39:52.920 --> 00:39:55.639 I'm wearing the shirt. I'm going to the show tonight. We'll see how 599 00:39:55.639 --> 00:40:00.000 serious these people are. That sends a charge up our spine, like fuck. 600 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:07.800 Yes, there's the Brawny Bows shirt, the Red Hook Diner shirt of 601 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.360 course, one that I'm a big fan of and now that I can't wait 602 00:40:12.400 --> 00:40:16.960 to to to wear this one, the the TLF wrestle Pania, Sure, 603 00:40:17.159 --> 00:40:23.320 thank you very much, which is the WrestleMania logo but with wrestle Pania and 604 00:40:23.440 --> 00:40:29.440 TLF with the with the the kind of metallic the metallic look. Then there's 605 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:34.719 also Giant to Mania, yes, which the thing right from Royal Rumble nineteen 606 00:40:34.719 --> 00:40:38.119 eighty eight, Thank you, Jesse. And then there's the someone send us 607 00:40:38.119 --> 00:40:45.800 a logo of like the TLF logo but with in the way of the of 608 00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:51.880 the WBF logo. You know what kind of the the neon look to it 609 00:40:52.199 --> 00:40:53.960 that they have kind of like the old entrance way from the table. Yeah. 610 00:40:54.039 --> 00:41:00.679 Yeah, so I modified just a little bit, uh and yeah. 611 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:07.519 So that's up there called the Lapsed Bodybuilding Fan. I forget the guy's actual 612 00:41:07.679 --> 00:41:14.559 name, but we have the Catchatri Chabbada shirt. There we go, and 613 00:41:14.880 --> 00:41:21.360 hundreds more, literally hundreds the Lapsed Army uh you know, from the Bubba 614 00:41:21.480 --> 00:41:27.960 Army, bullshit, Hide the Ball, Pummics Power, the fucking mid Carters 615 00:41:27.960 --> 00:41:32.599 and Zeros shirts. I'll hey, where you know what we're getting towards the 616 00:41:32.679 --> 00:41:37.039 end of the year. So I do expect people to be to be to 617 00:41:37.079 --> 00:41:44.199 be forking out some money for the the the Christmas shirts, the LAPS Hard, 618 00:41:45.199 --> 00:41:49.199 the You'll need It TLF shirt, the uh, the LAPS Fan Home 619 00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:53.199 Alone, the LAPS Fan Christmas Story, LAPS Fan Charlie Brown Christmas type shirt, 620 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:59.159 so many just it's fucking you know, the beauty of it is just 621 00:41:59.280 --> 00:42:01.559 you know, you think of any idea and just put it on. But 622 00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:06.679 goddamn, it's a beautiful thing to not worry about selling a single. Skew. 623 00:42:07.239 --> 00:42:12.159 Yes, you know the breakthrough was this print on demand technology, this 624 00:42:12.239 --> 00:42:15.639 directed garment printing. That's just like, you know, whatever, man like, 625 00:42:15.719 --> 00:42:16.800 if someone doesn't order it, we're not going to print it, and 626 00:42:16.800 --> 00:42:21.639 so we don't have all this inventory sitting around that we have to convince people 627 00:42:21.760 --> 00:42:23.760 is worth buying and disconnect point. We give it away for twenty five cents. 628 00:42:23.800 --> 00:42:27.880 No, just you want it, We'll print it and come up with 629 00:42:27.920 --> 00:42:30.079 as many designs as you want. And it's a beautiful thing and we urge 630 00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:32.519 you to support it. Also consider a lapsed fan in your life in terms 631 00:42:32.559 --> 00:42:37.840 of a great gift. Another great gift is a cameo which is got back 632 00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:40.559 up and running strongly, boss, And you're getting some boards in the requests 633 00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:46.360 are coming back. We've gotten some from I really appreciate. There's nothing better 634 00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:55.480 to me than the significant other of the recipient. And they're not necessarily sure 635 00:42:55.639 --> 00:43:00.199 what is going on, but they're like, they don't know what this podcast 636 00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:05.039 is. They know their husband loves it. Yeah yeah, and and like 637 00:43:05.440 --> 00:43:08.679 you know, they and then they like something and and they like a lot 638 00:43:08.679 --> 00:43:13.360 of the characters. But you know, feel free to to to just kind 639 00:43:13.360 --> 00:43:17.440 of go off on them. It's like, okay, if you say so, 640 00:43:17.840 --> 00:43:22.480 yeah, give it to dangerous and then they do. That's it. 641 00:43:22.599 --> 00:43:28.000 You know, so many times people have been completely destroyed by by Lapsed Vince 642 00:43:28.239 --> 00:43:30.559 as they want. They want to be flagellated because they're wrestling fans, and 643 00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:35.920 that's basically, you know, destroy their life. And then they want, 644 00:43:37.639 --> 00:43:40.480 you know, then they want uh, you know, then laps Vince wants 645 00:43:42.000 --> 00:43:49.599 to fornicate with the person's wife and paper the deal afterwards is said. That's 646 00:43:49.639 --> 00:43:53.960 right, exactly, not complicated. And also laps Cannon has been has been 647 00:43:54.519 --> 00:44:00.280 created, established characters to interact in ways we wouldn't have imagined, and we're 648 00:44:00.320 --> 00:44:04.079 obliged to consider that canon. You know, so much, so much, 649 00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:10.840 so much history of the Lapsed Editor has been discovered through through cameo. You 650 00:44:10.880 --> 00:44:15.360 already know this, but we're the puppetser of the puppeteers over Cameo, and 651 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:19.840 so we hidly encourage you to check us out on that platform to deliver a 652 00:44:19.920 --> 00:44:25.039 custom message to please you or to please somebody else. So proud to offer 653 00:44:25.079 --> 00:44:28.920 all those ways. And this of course is the return of the Hopper. 654 00:44:29.079 --> 00:44:31.480 Can't say I know exactly when the Hopper is going to come back. So 655 00:44:31.679 --> 00:44:35.519 we're thankful to the people that made it such a success. First time we've 656 00:44:35.519 --> 00:44:37.639 done it in a long time. And it was great to see that people 657 00:44:37.760 --> 00:44:40.599 had that pent up demand that we were hoping and expecting would be there. 658 00:44:42.239 --> 00:44:45.480 I do feel obliged to mention something that we mentioned way back, kind of 659 00:44:45.519 --> 00:44:49.280 like that first year of the Return of the Hopper, where we said folks 660 00:44:49.320 --> 00:44:53.639 who bid but didn't win would be entered in a pool to get a free 661 00:44:53.719 --> 00:44:58.440 hopper. Pick around the holidays is our gift to the Solar System. That 662 00:44:58.519 --> 00:45:02.400 of course is duty to be, you know, nice to our fans, 663 00:45:02.440 --> 00:45:07.159 but also to encourage them to jump in even if they don't necessarily think they're 664 00:45:07.159 --> 00:45:09.719 going to win, because we're sensitive for the fact that there are deeper pocketed 665 00:45:09.719 --> 00:45:15.079 members of the Solar System than others, deceptively deep pockets out there. We've 666 00:45:15.079 --> 00:45:17.119 come to appreciate that over the years and we love it, but we do 667 00:45:17.239 --> 00:45:22.159 know that it kind of puts the hopper out of the reach of certain folks. 668 00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:24.280 The longer we do, what I will say, the more we cycle 669 00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:28.719 through the big spenders, and then it does come down. The winning amounts 670 00:45:28.719 --> 00:45:30.159 do come down over time, and that's that's a nice thing to see. 671 00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:36.840 But in recognition of how pricy it can get, we are not only putting 672 00:45:36.840 --> 00:45:39.800 people that came up short this time, but also since we made the promise 673 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:44.679 last year those names as well. Because by the time we decided to do 674 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:49.800 TNH to launch January of two and twenty three, yes, kind of, 675 00:45:50.280 --> 00:45:52.800 there wasn't really a way to go back over all the people that had come 676 00:45:52.840 --> 00:45:57.880 up short and award a show, which our thought was that would be a 677 00:45:57.960 --> 00:46:00.639 great way to do the first show of the year, right, we'd write 678 00:46:00.679 --> 00:46:04.559 them, give it away and and record it. But in that case, 679 00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:07.639 I mean Jesus Wednesday, January fourth, like we had to do it. 680 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:10.559 We had to launch on the fourth, so yep, we had to teenage 681 00:46:10.599 --> 00:46:13.840 kind of got in the way. So names last year that bid and didn't 682 00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:15.559 win. Also, we'll be thrown into a pool, will be random. 683 00:46:15.559 --> 00:46:20.599 We'll throw your name in there. Yes, doesn't It doesn't really matter how 684 00:46:20.599 --> 00:46:23.159 every times you bid, we'll throw your name in there once and we'll shake 685 00:46:23.199 --> 00:46:25.639 it up, just like we used to do with the original Hopper back in 686 00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:29.920 the right our names out of hat, draw shows out of a hat we 687 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:31.639 would do. We have two at times remember those names, we yep, 688 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:36.760 and then we've have my kid do it. So do keep your eyes peeled 689 00:46:37.199 --> 00:46:40.559 in your ears peeled here to the podcast into our Twitter x account at the 690 00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:45.119 Lapsed Fan and see when we might announce the next opening of the Hopper. 691 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:50.599 And this brings us to something I think folks might be a little unsure as 692 00:46:50.639 --> 00:46:52.840 to what we might have been cooking up in the kitchen and a brief hiatus 693 00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:58.639 here from the show. And I know a lot of hope swirling around the 694 00:46:58.639 --> 00:47:01.840 passing of Terry Funk and hope that your co chairman could do their one of 695 00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:07.119 a kind treatment of a legacy that more than deserves to be recognized, especially 696 00:47:08.199 --> 00:47:12.920 considering some of the others we've done tribute shows for. And we're here to 697 00:47:12.960 --> 00:47:16.000 tell you that it's happening, what it's happening in TLF fashion, at our 698 00:47:16.079 --> 00:47:21.400 pace and when we feel the story can truly be told. You know, 699 00:47:21.559 --> 00:47:24.159 yes, I know that the emotions run highest the day after and the day 700 00:47:24.199 --> 00:47:29.039 of a passing like this, but that's hardly the time to say, Okay, 701 00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:34.639 the most influential voices, the most influential analytical minds on this guy's career 702 00:47:34.679 --> 00:47:37.480 have spoken, and we know what it know that all happens in the two 703 00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:40.119 weeks after John Pollock at Post Wrestling did a terrific piece that I'd encourage anybody 704 00:47:40.119 --> 00:47:45.480 to check out because he became intimately familiar with Terry Funk over the years covering 705 00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:49.440 the sport in his legacy. Those kinds of things we need to let matriculate. 706 00:47:49.679 --> 00:47:51.800 Even Meltzer, I don't think as of this writing, as of this 707 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:54.239 recording, I should say, has done his full blown Terry funkle bit and 708 00:47:54.320 --> 00:48:00.719 few new Funk better in terms of writers than Dave Meltzer out of what you 709 00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:04.599 know, the rules of thumb about the business and sort of like detecting where 710 00:48:04.599 --> 00:48:07.400 the business was going before most could see it. That's Terry Funk. I 711 00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:12.880 mean, I think you you you said it perfectly just a couple of minutes 712 00:48:12.920 --> 00:48:19.360 ago, was I we you know, we it's best to have a closed 713 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:23.800 a closed book. Yes, and I consider that. You know, you 714 00:48:23.800 --> 00:48:28.400 have to have the funeral, you have to have everybody way in on what 715 00:48:28.480 --> 00:48:31.679 he meant and what was most significant. And Terry Funk, I'm here to 716 00:48:31.679 --> 00:48:37.880 tell you, is the most giant career we could ever cover and anybody could 717 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:42.559 ever cover for sure, not because he was, you know, the biggest 718 00:48:42.559 --> 00:48:45.800 household name in the history of the industry. Not because he was some cultural 719 00:48:45.960 --> 00:48:50.559 icon to a people. But because of the depth and breadth of his experience 720 00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:58.400 in the industry, this guy wrestled more generational talents across more territories, countries, 721 00:48:58.480 --> 00:49:01.360 geographies, eras style than any wrestler who has ever lived. And it's 722 00:49:01.400 --> 00:49:06.000 not even close. I remember reading his book and closing that thing and being 723 00:49:06.039 --> 00:49:12.800 like, did this start with luth Az and end with like Chris Candido and 724 00:49:12.920 --> 00:49:19.400 fucking Big Veto and WCW hardcore matches? Like in every era he only found 725 00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:22.360 a spot, but he found a way to make an impact in the era. 726 00:49:22.920 --> 00:49:25.119 You know, even even in the Attitude era there that motherfucker was. 727 00:49:25.239 --> 00:49:29.920 You know, you would think that by the time the Attitude arra revved up, 728 00:49:29.960 --> 00:49:32.159 you know, Terry Funk wouldn't necessarily need to be contributing. And he 729 00:49:32.199 --> 00:49:36.559 shows up, He finds a way. He's he's somehow always the man for 730 00:49:36.599 --> 00:49:40.199 the moment. Yeah, not in the WrestleMania main event, but kind of 731 00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:45.360 like when the chips are down in the territory and things are kind of fledgling, 732 00:49:45.639 --> 00:49:49.559 things are starting to happen, things are starting to whirr into into something 733 00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:52.440 significant. He's there, He's somewhere around there, contributing in small but big 734 00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:58.440 ways, and just the difference and distinction of who he was as a wrestler 735 00:49:58.440 --> 00:50:00.960 when he beat Jack Briscoe for the End World's Championship in the seventies, Just 736 00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.039 to see that Terry Funk, to realize that the one we got came from 737 00:50:06.119 --> 00:50:12.119 there and it's just going to be phenomenal. And so we need your help. 738 00:50:12.920 --> 00:50:15.519 We can't be confident that we can't say all that needs to be said 739 00:50:15.519 --> 00:50:21.320 about Terry Funk without the best listeners and wrestling podcasting telling us where to train 740 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:23.119 our focus as well. So if you have anything you want to say about 741 00:50:23.159 --> 00:50:27.559 Terry Funk, anything his impact, one memory you have of him, three 742 00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:30.360 memories you have of him, maybe a list of matches that we absolutely shouldn't 743 00:50:30.400 --> 00:50:35.239 pass up in reviewing and and truly appreciating his career, because we're going to 744 00:50:35.280 --> 00:50:37.480 go pretty nuts. Yeah. I mean, this is like a forty year, 745 00:50:37.639 --> 00:50:43.159 fifty year body of work, and it's so diverse in its geographies and 746 00:50:43.199 --> 00:50:49.000 styles and the different eras he intersected with that we really need to be intentional 747 00:50:49.280 --> 00:50:53.119 about hitting representative moments in this guy's life and career, and that takes us 748 00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:55.760 all over the world, and it puts us in all different kinds of rings 749 00:50:55.760 --> 00:51:00.920 and atmospheres. But we'll never no matter how much time we spend, we'll 750 00:51:00.960 --> 00:51:05.519 never match the collective instincts of the Solar system putting all their heads together and 751 00:51:05.559 --> 00:51:07.199 saying do this, this, that, and this and the other. We 752 00:51:07.280 --> 00:51:10.320 might not take every suggestion, but we want them. So send your emails 753 00:51:10.360 --> 00:51:15.079 to the Lapsed Fan at gmail dot com. Tell us why Terry Funk mattered, 754 00:51:15.760 --> 00:51:19.000 Yeah, and what it is Terry Funk did that mattered, and help 755 00:51:19.039 --> 00:51:21.880 us in our mission. We're not exactly sure when we're gonna roll this puppy 756 00:51:21.880 --> 00:51:23.880 out, it's going to be quite soon. We do have at least one 757 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:29.480 more show in the queue that we're going to bring to you before we start, 758 00:51:29.920 --> 00:51:31.719 The Life and Times of the Funker. But I think I just named 759 00:51:31.719 --> 00:51:34.639 it. What do you think there? It is Life and Times of the 760 00:51:34.639 --> 00:51:37.840 Funker. That's perfect right, very good. Who gives a funk on that 761 00:51:37.920 --> 00:51:42.639 fucking cast? But that also works too. Who gives a funk? We 762 00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:49.119 do because he made you give up, made you care funk you. That's 763 00:51:49.159 --> 00:51:52.719 all there. I mean, that was a T shirt you and by the 764 00:51:52.719 --> 00:51:57.400 time it's over, we're going to realize that he was one of the top 765 00:51:57.519 --> 00:52:01.199 ten greatest professional wrestlers to ever live. Yeah, and we're gonna lay it 766 00:52:01.280 --> 00:52:04.400 bear, and you're not going to have any doubt in your mind by the 767 00:52:04.440 --> 00:52:07.400 time it's over. But let this be the clarity and call. Let this 768 00:52:07.440 --> 00:52:09.679 be the announcement in the public square. Come one, Come all, the 769 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:14.280 laps Fan at gmail dot com. Terry Funk is our obsession for the next 770 00:52:14.280 --> 00:52:19.039 little while here at Serendipity that he chose until TNH was over to pass away 771 00:52:19.559 --> 00:52:22.840 right away, that little vacuum of we need that mini journey. You know, 772 00:52:23.159 --> 00:52:25.599 I know, I know, I know, and it's coming and it's 773 00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:30.239 coming hard and it's going to take more than one towel to clean up. 774 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:32.920 So we really hope that you can help us make it what it should be. 775 00:52:34.920 --> 00:52:40.000 That coming to earbuds near you and coming to a nutritional shelf near you 776 00:52:42.440 --> 00:52:46.440 if you're worth your weight, are the fine products from our proud sponsors over 777 00:52:46.519 --> 00:52:51.679 at Tighten Nutrition, who are proud to support the laps Fan Wrestling podcast and 778 00:52:51.679 --> 00:52:54.920 proud to have members of the Solar System Experiment tryout the wares that they have 779 00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:59.480 to improve your workout routine to improve your overall health. We're gonna talk this 780 00:52:59.519 --> 00:53:01.639 week up your greens and pure reds. 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And also let them know 797 00:54:00.480 --> 00:54:04.679 that TLF sent you and that they have selected a winner. They have been 798 00:54:04.679 --> 00:54:07.800 in a winner in the podcast race Foaming at the Crotch. If you two 799 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.639 want to foam at the crotch, it's Tight Nutrition dot Net with the discount 800 00:54:10.639 --> 00:54:15.119 cold Lapsed. We want to thank them for their support and thank you for 801 00:54:15.159 --> 00:54:19.559 trying out their products as folks are always embarking on trying to improve themselves through 802 00:54:20.480 --> 00:54:22.800 rigorous physical exercise boss, and for some of them it works and bless their 803 00:54:22.800 --> 00:54:27.400 hearts. No better way to do it than with Titan Nutrition and a big 804 00:54:27.440 --> 00:54:36.920 thumbs up, no doubt. That fucking cast Do you know that? Yes, 805 00:54:37.360 --> 00:54:39.880 Adam Page and Kenny Omega versus the Young Bucks on this show was deemed 806 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:45.239 by Dave Meltzer to be the best tag team match ever in the United States. 807 00:54:49.199 --> 00:54:54.280 Yeah, I did not reason. I held on to that one. 808 00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:04.880 You know, I value you Dave's opinions. I value Dave's what doesn't historic. 809 00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:07.199 It doesn't matter how that, how that strikes you. It matters which 810 00:55:07.599 --> 00:55:15.559 match is better? All Right, I gotta think about it. I gotta 811 00:55:15.599 --> 00:55:19.519 think. I gotta think. I gotta think, I gotta think. Uh 812 00:55:20.599 --> 00:55:22.920 I would I'll say this right off the top of my head. I would 813 00:55:22.920 --> 00:55:31.880 take any of the any of the the TLC matches from you know, from 814 00:55:31.880 --> 00:55:36.800 from like two thousand and two thousand and one. How interesting here you are 815 00:55:36.920 --> 00:55:43.480 right saying, like decrying a style that relies on those kind of spectacular sequences, 816 00:55:43.519 --> 00:55:45.880 and you're putting it over a match that relies on none of that. 817 00:55:45.440 --> 00:55:51.000 Yeah. Now, I mean in terms of in terms of like and because 818 00:55:51.000 --> 00:55:57.840 I think about it like this, what's a match that I would voluntarily go 819 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:02.320 back to watch again? That's a fair standard. And that's your unique just 820 00:56:02.400 --> 00:56:06.760 like your subjectivity. Yeah, yes, and I and to me, because 821 00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:09.239 that, to me is where it comes down to whether it comes down to 822 00:56:09.440 --> 00:56:13.000 what am I What do I want to enjoy more? You know, what 823 00:56:13.039 --> 00:56:17.079 am I enjoying more than than just this? And there's a lot honestly, 824 00:56:17.840 --> 00:56:25.519 Uh, I would prefer in some ways to if we're going just by that, 825 00:56:25.719 --> 00:56:30.679 though, then I'd gladly go and watch natural disasters versus Money Incorporated when 826 00:56:30.719 --> 00:56:34.840 they beat them in Worcesters so ridiculous. It can't just be that, right, 827 00:56:34.880 --> 00:56:39.159 It's got to be something significant as well. And those were such groundbreaking 828 00:56:39.960 --> 00:56:44.559 violent matches for me. Those You know, it's funny too. If you 829 00:56:44.639 --> 00:56:47.760 asked the Young Bucks and Omegan Page what the best tag team match ever was, 830 00:56:47.800 --> 00:56:51.639 they probably say something involving the Hearties. At least the Bucks would right 831 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.599 right for Hall of Famers, but the Hearties aren't, even though the Bucks 832 00:56:54.639 --> 00:57:00.480 would yell at you if you said the Hearties on Hall of Famers. But 833 00:57:00.599 --> 00:57:06.960 let's think about something a little more traditional. What would be I'm like going 834 00:57:07.400 --> 00:57:12.199 through I can't even think, you know, I put when we get prompting 835 00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:17.280 thing, I can't think of a goddamn thing. And that's it. I 836 00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:21.039 think that might be a commentary on the fact that there haven't been as many 837 00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:23.480 great tag team matches as singles matches in US wrestling history. That might be 838 00:57:23.519 --> 00:57:27.639 the truth that it is team match, it's unlikely to get the kind of 839 00:57:27.679 --> 00:57:30.599 a chance to be great. Okay, okay, okay, hold on, 840 00:57:30.639 --> 00:57:36.159 though, you know what I would take because I know I've watched a few 841 00:57:36.159 --> 00:57:40.400 times, and I do think it's fucking exciting as shit in a good way. 842 00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:47.159 I would take, you know, uh, Austin and Michael's versus Bulldog 843 00:57:47.199 --> 00:57:50.559 and Owen. Nice nice choice. I thought you were going to go somewhere 844 00:57:50.599 --> 00:57:52.159 else with that. But I think it's a wonderful match and a great example. 845 00:57:52.480 --> 00:57:57.159 Yeah, I was thinking Austin and Triple H first Ben one Jericho Totally, 846 00:57:57.280 --> 00:58:02.480 that's a fucking amazing match, totally new level. So that comes to 847 00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:06.559 mind. I'm not saying I think it's better than this match. I do 848 00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:07.840 kind of when I hear this is the best match ever in US, I'm 849 00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:10.320 like, really, and then you stop and you think, okay, well 850 00:58:10.320 --> 00:58:13.639 what is and then you realize, okay, well I picked that match, 851 00:58:14.039 --> 00:58:15.280 to your point, because of what it meant to me, or at least 852 00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:20.199 my perception of how impactful the match was. But I'm not remembering. I'm 853 00:58:20.239 --> 00:58:23.159 not doing a frame by frame comparison. And Meltzer went through the exercise and 854 00:58:23.159 --> 00:58:27.440 he said, you know, when I think of the two contenders to this, 855 00:58:27.480 --> 00:58:30.960 it's a match with the Bennet Express versus the Fantastics, which he'd always 856 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:34.679 considered the best American tag team match you ever saw from Chattanooga where the Fantastics 857 00:58:34.679 --> 00:58:38.360 won the NBA US Tag team titles, and a match in Japan Missile and 858 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:43.280 Kabashi, Kawada and Tawhit which is one of the most celebrated tag team matches 859 00:58:43.320 --> 00:58:45.400 of the nineties. And again his distinction is US. So he's not saying 860 00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:50.880 that it's better than Missile, Kabasha, Kawada, Tawei or any Japanese tag 861 00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:52.679 match, but he did kind of think, what are the things that come 862 00:58:52.719 --> 00:58:55.880 directly to mind, It's the best tag matches I've ever seen, And and 863 00:58:57.199 --> 00:59:01.159 he went back. He watched them closely and determined that this Bucks match versus 864 00:59:01.239 --> 00:59:07.039 Adam Page and Kenny Omega was slightly better. He wrote it had the best 865 00:59:07.039 --> 00:59:10.079 storytelling, but it was not that far ahead of Midnight versus Fantastics in that 866 00:59:10.159 --> 00:59:14.480 realm, but did beat the Al Japan match handily in storytelling. It was 867 00:59:14.480 --> 00:59:16.880 the most spectacular of the three easily. It did not have the sports feel 868 00:59:16.880 --> 00:59:20.320 of the Japan match, but it had a very different and more respectful and 869 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:23.840 smarter audience than the nWay match and Madras It was the most healthy atmosphere because 870 00:59:23.920 --> 00:59:27.440 while the guys were going too far with the risks. Without a doubt the 871 00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:30.159 audience has appreciated them for what they were doing. There was no con involved. 872 00:59:30.440 --> 00:59:32.519 There was no attempt to pull the wool over the eyes of the audience 873 00:59:32.559 --> 00:59:36.000 or pretend, which you can't do in a modern world. There was no 874 00:59:36.039 --> 00:59:38.480 guy along for the ride like kier Taua or Stan Lane, who both brought 875 00:59:38.519 --> 00:59:42.519 something to the matches, but were clearly the least talented of the four. 876 00:59:42.960 --> 00:59:45.199 Part of that is that the person who would be thought of ahead of time 877 00:59:45.239 --> 00:59:46.920 as the guy on that spot in this week's tag match, Adam Page was 878 00:59:46.960 --> 00:59:51.000 the key player in the key story, the story of the matches that in 879 00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:53.559 the end, Page was to outshine the other three by design and win strongly 880 00:59:53.599 --> 00:59:57.559 at the end. But this match not only had more stories and more layers, 881 00:59:57.599 --> 01:00:00.960 but also far more depth to the storytelling. All were close to perfect 882 01:00:01.000 --> 01:00:05.679 for their audiences. All would all the matches. All these matches would transport 883 01:00:05.719 --> 01:00:07.800 into different eras and be among the best matches of the year. Nobody had 884 01:00:07.800 --> 01:00:10.920 an edge in pacing, and none of the three bouts all over thirty minutes, 885 01:00:12.320 --> 01:00:15.320 had a second of downtime or ever dragged or felt too long. All 886 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:20.239 actually left much shorter than they really were, and the end this week's match 887 01:00:20.360 --> 01:00:22.840 was the best. But saying any of the three weren't among the best tag 888 01:00:22.840 --> 01:00:28.559 matches of all time seems ludicrous to me. Now six stars, wow, 889 01:00:29.679 --> 01:00:31.119 No, I wouldn't go that eye. Yeah, I'd go five, but 890 01:00:31.199 --> 01:00:35.440 that's just because I wouldn't go beyond and a half. You know, it's 891 01:00:35.440 --> 01:00:37.480 not really a disagreement. If it's five or six, it's the highest to 892 01:00:37.519 --> 01:00:40.199 you, you're willing to go four and a half or and a half. 893 01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:45.639 Yeah, yeah, I think of the honestly, I think of the Sean 894 01:00:45.880 --> 01:00:50.760 and Diesel Verse, Hall and Waltman match two. Oh yeah, totally. 895 01:00:50.920 --> 01:00:52.280 I don't think it was. It wasn't as epic as this in terms of 896 01:00:52.320 --> 01:00:57.880 stage in moment. And what about that tag match from two thousand and two 897 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:05.880 where they did the doubt the SmackDown Tag Championship there? Remember that it was 898 01:01:05.960 --> 01:01:14.320 at Angle and Eddie. Yeah, amazing match, amazing match. Yeah he 899 01:01:14.519 --> 01:01:16.920 would that. I want to include the hardies and more than more than a 900 01:01:16.960 --> 01:01:22.719 half incredible matches people have, you know, they always like I've ever I 901 01:01:22.800 --> 01:01:25.960 mean, you've seen one time the latter match between them and Edging Christian. 902 01:01:28.800 --> 01:01:30.559 Yeah, I mean, if you're gonna go Gaga or the TLC matches and 903 01:01:30.639 --> 01:01:35.039 understand why you would, it's really that match that's the progenitor of it all. 904 01:01:35.320 --> 01:01:37.119 That was the match that really was, like you know, on the 905 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:39.320 follow up the next night where they got the standing ovation and WW leaned into 906 01:01:39.360 --> 01:01:43.440 how epic the match was instead of tried to look the other way because they 907 01:01:43.519 --> 01:01:45.519 might not have expected it to be that great, which sometimes can kill a 908 01:01:45.559 --> 01:01:49.800 great matches if the follow up isn't there to acknowledge it as great, and 909 01:01:49.880 --> 01:01:51.880 and this match kind of suffered from that. I mean, I don't remember 910 01:01:51.880 --> 01:01:53.800 exactly what they said on the Dynamite after this, but this isn't a match 911 01:01:53.920 --> 01:01:58.360 that excepting the pages of The Observer and kind of the wrestling intelligencia, this 912 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:00.159 isn't one that echoes. You don't hear are a lot of callbacks to it. 913 01:02:00.840 --> 01:02:04.760 The relationship with a w and the Bucks and stuff got a little weird 914 01:02:04.800 --> 01:02:06.440 after this, so maybe that has a lot to do with it, and 915 01:02:06.599 --> 01:02:09.639 Adam Page as well. Their careers started to become defined much more by other 916 01:02:09.719 --> 01:02:14.679 things and the conflict with Punk than than this story. But this one doesn't 917 01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:15.519 really get it to do. Historically, I don't. I don't see it 918 01:02:15.639 --> 01:02:22.280 mentioned with the reverence you would expect it to be mentioned, but you know, 919 01:02:22.360 --> 01:02:23.400 at the same time, a w's running so fast. There's not a 920 01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.440 lot of time for that kind of stuff anyway, and if there was, 921 01:02:25.800 --> 01:02:30.719 it might very well that could be the case that this is mentioned all the 922 01:02:30.800 --> 01:02:32.800 time for its quality. But I thought that was interesting, you know. 923 01:02:32.880 --> 01:02:37.639 He went and he went and dove in and made the comparisons and came away 924 01:02:37.719 --> 01:02:42.920 thinking that. And it's hard because you know, yeah, athletically the things 925 01:02:43.000 --> 01:02:45.400 the guys are doing. Of course, nobody was doing stuff like that in 926 01:02:45.559 --> 01:02:49.639 the nineties and the eighties, and the stuff of the business hadn't even gotten 927 01:02:49.639 --> 01:02:52.079 to the point where people would think to try those things in the ring. 928 01:02:52.360 --> 01:02:54.119 So there's that natural edge to it. But there is there's a ton of 929 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:57.760 story and where they were going, and these guys really are thoughtful about that 930 01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:00.719 stuff. Omega in particular is like the best ever I could at finding ways 931 01:03:00.800 --> 01:03:07.760 to thread moments of significance into a match, like twelve of them instead of 932 01:03:07.840 --> 01:03:09.960 just one, you know, and they all sort of register if you pay 933 01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:14.320 enough attention and if you don't. It's still absolutely fabulous thing. You know, 934 01:03:14.440 --> 01:03:16.920 when when you when you have more than I mean, if you're really 935 01:03:17.199 --> 01:03:21.519 yeah, I mean I know you're, I know you're you're you're more speculating 936 01:03:21.559 --> 01:03:25.119 in the idea of things like twelve moments of you know, like that to 937 01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:29.159 me right there, that's that's a problem to problem you give it too much 938 01:03:29.239 --> 01:03:30.239 because because it could be too much, it could be too much like, 939 01:03:30.880 --> 01:03:35.800 uh, it's gate keeping. It's like only people that know all these references 940 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:37.840 really appreciate what I'm doing. And of course that's annoying. Like in any 941 01:03:38.119 --> 01:03:43.800 walk of life, someone that makes references until only six people appreciate it is 942 01:03:43.800 --> 01:03:46.679 annoying. Rockers versus orient Express too, it's a great match. It's nowhere 943 01:03:46.760 --> 01:03:51.760 near this though it's too short. I agree with that because that's what it's 944 01:03:51.760 --> 01:03:54.119 about too. It's not just about who's who the great teams were, what 945 01:03:54.159 --> 01:03:57.719 the great tag matches were. It's about who was given this kind of time 946 01:03:58.599 --> 01:04:01.679 to really, you know, slowly let a match boil. I remember there 947 01:04:01.760 --> 01:04:06.480 was an unbelievable tag match in the AWA between the Rockers and Buddy Rose and 948 01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:12.480 no not Ray Stevens. Oh my god, I guess it wasn't so great 949 01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:15.960 if I don't remember who it was Rockers, Buddy Rose, it, Dug 950 01:04:16.000 --> 01:04:19.800 Summers, it got it, got Marty and Shawn their jobs in WWF. 951 01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:24.639 It was so good. I couldn't believe how how great that tag match was. 952 01:04:24.760 --> 01:04:27.679 But again, all of them are sort of like, they're not featured 953 01:04:27.679 --> 01:04:30.199 matches on featured shows. They're just teams that went out one night and blew 954 01:04:30.239 --> 01:04:33.920 away all expectations, right, you know, and that's what we made it 955 01:04:34.039 --> 01:04:40.679 great. But the preconditions weren't set for this to be great. It just 956 01:04:40.800 --> 01:04:44.159 happened to unfold that way, and people remembered it fondly for that reason. 957 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:46.679 But if the tag match, it's probably not going to get that kind of 958 01:04:46.920 --> 01:04:50.679 layout and formatting to where it can be all time great. I think that's 959 01:04:50.760 --> 01:04:56.039 that's why the roster of contenders to this for best tag match in US history 960 01:04:56.119 --> 01:04:59.320 or is actually much thinner than you would think at first glance. Yeah, 961 01:04:59.480 --> 01:05:02.559 I guess that it's TRUEW is always under under emphasized tag teams WCW, you 962 01:05:02.599 --> 01:05:05.599 know, not in the eighties, but in the nineties certainly under emphasized them 963 01:05:06.079 --> 01:05:10.239 tremendously to the point that most time champions were just you know, two singles 964 01:05:10.280 --> 01:05:14.159 guys linked up for a little while, the Steiners against Hasse and uh Saki 965 01:05:14.199 --> 01:05:18.519 in Japan. It's alway yep to me, but yeah, it's it's an 966 01:05:18.599 --> 01:05:24.639 interesting delineation. It's interesting category to consider when we talk about greatest. Omega, 967 01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:28.000 who suffer a broken finger in this match, had had a lot of 968 01:05:28.039 --> 01:05:30.559 things to say, and not about this match, but just about his his 969 01:05:30.639 --> 01:05:34.400 outlook on the industry. Jonathan Snowden, who is writing for Bleacher Report at 970 01:05:34.440 --> 01:05:39.239 the time, did a piece that came out right around the time of Revolution 971 01:05:39.320 --> 01:05:41.880 twenty twenty that had Omega wing and in his vision of wrestling. He said, 972 01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:44.719 a lot of wrestlers are wrestling fans at heart. I'm not necessarily a 973 01:05:44.760 --> 01:05:46.400 fan anymore. I'm a fan of TV dramas. I'm a fan of video 974 01:05:46.440 --> 01:05:49.639 games, a fan of movies. I like the way that those forms of 975 01:05:49.719 --> 01:05:54.280 media are laid out to attract the fan. That's my study material for how 976 01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:57.000 I put together a storyline or a match. Yes, I'm athletic and I 977 01:05:57.039 --> 01:05:58.960 can do cool moves, and I try to be original with the way I 978 01:05:59.039 --> 01:06:00.679 performed them. But I feel the way that I put things together is different 979 01:06:00.679 --> 01:06:02.960 from the average wrestler, because the average wrestler is just that, he's just 980 01:06:03.000 --> 01:06:05.079 a wrestler. He's a wrestler who wants to be a wrestler. I'm a 981 01:06:05.119 --> 01:06:09.400 wrestling I am wrestling as a job. But trying to tell human stories to 982 01:06:09.480 --> 01:06:15.360 pull out your heart strings that can be easily veer into annoying territory. But 983 01:06:15.440 --> 01:06:16.719 I think he, I think he, I don't know. I think he 984 01:06:16.760 --> 01:06:23.559 puts it well, yeah, it's fine. I mean there are a lot 985 01:06:23.559 --> 01:06:26.840 of heart strings. I mean, don't don't don't say that too much. 986 01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:29.639 Yeah, exactly, don't, right, don't tell us too much about that 987 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:33.039 part of your process show instead of tell on that yeah, yeah, I 988 01:06:33.039 --> 01:06:36.280 don't want to know as much as yours your Yeah. I don't need this 989 01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:39.920 to be that kind of high drama. It needs to be, you know, 990 01:06:40.119 --> 01:06:42.920 the only drama that should bubble up is the same kind of drama you'd 991 01:06:42.920 --> 01:06:45.079 get in any great sport. And that's the multivariate you know, that's not 992 01:06:45.239 --> 01:06:49.440 like just that's not a small menu of things you can achieve, but you 993 01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:54.239 know, to achieve the same things that high dramas stop like if it's not 994 01:06:54.360 --> 01:06:57.840 something you'd see in a football field and feel on a baseball game. You 995 01:06:57.840 --> 01:07:00.599 shouldn't try to get people to feel that in wrestling story. It's too overwrought. 996 01:07:00.719 --> 01:07:04.320 It gets too far away from the inevitability of the fact that this comes 997 01:07:04.360 --> 01:07:06.119 down to a one on one match, and that's not going to be a 998 01:07:06.159 --> 01:07:11.280 passion play. That's going to be two people trying to beat each other because 999 01:07:11.320 --> 01:07:16.119 of the riches that are promised to them if they win, and the pressures 1000 01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:19.559 that creates and the tensions that creates is plenty for wrestling. You don't need 1001 01:07:19.599 --> 01:07:23.599 to make it about totally you know things that Shakespeare wrote about. That's when 1002 01:07:23.639 --> 01:07:27.280 it gets a little foolish to me. He also said a lot of wrestling 1003 01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:30.119 historians and purists will go to bat and say that Ric Flair was the greatest 1004 01:07:30.159 --> 01:07:31.599 of all time because he was so successful for a period of years. The 1005 01:07:31.639 --> 01:07:34.679 same goes for because it's your Gookata, who's almost the modern day Rick Flair. 1006 01:07:34.800 --> 01:07:38.440 They have a very pattern main event style, but it's very successful. 1007 01:07:38.679 --> 01:07:41.079 They bring out the best in almost every opponent. I would watch some of 1008 01:07:41.119 --> 01:07:43.239 the main event performances and I would say, well, this is a great 1009 01:07:43.280 --> 01:07:45.280 match. Wow, you don't realize until after you've seen it ten times or 1010 01:07:45.320 --> 01:07:49.199 twelve times, this is actually just a formula they kind of copied and pasted. 1011 01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:53.280 They see that the reaction is the same every time, so the wrestler 1012 01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:55.719 says, oh, okay, this is a formula that works, and regardless 1013 01:07:55.800 --> 01:07:58.840 of how many times they've seen it, it still works. I think that's 1014 01:07:58.840 --> 01:08:01.199 why the Keny Omega booms art and there's no Kenny Omega copy and paste formula. 1015 01:08:01.559 --> 01:08:04.920 It's all different. It's difficult and very mentally draining. And because I 1016 01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:09.119 do that, maybe it makes me not a true wrestlers wrestler. What I'm 1017 01:08:09.119 --> 01:08:11.920 trying to do is not attract the wrestler's wrestling fan. I'm trying to open 1018 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:14.920 up the world to what wrestling can be and show there is no limitation to 1019 01:08:14.960 --> 01:08:17.319 what wrestling can be. I went way outside that box. I wasn't using 1020 01:08:17.359 --> 01:08:19.880 the Agel wrestler formula, where if you do this, it's going to get 1021 01:08:19.880 --> 01:08:24.399 a reaction. So you do this set list of things at this timing, 1022 01:08:24.880 --> 01:08:27.520 and no, it's definitely going to work. I try to make everything unique, 1023 01:08:27.640 --> 01:08:30.359 almost anti wrestling in a way, but still existing within the four sides 1024 01:08:30.399 --> 01:08:32.960 of a wrestling ring, All right? Is he done? Almost? My 1025 01:08:33.119 --> 01:08:35.720 strong suit. I think it is long term storytelling. I'm a very neurotic 1026 01:08:35.800 --> 01:08:39.880 individual and I'm a stickler for detail, so I believed, given an opportunity 1027 01:08:39.920 --> 01:08:42.880 and given time, I could tell stories people really haven't seen in professional wrestling. 1028 01:08:43.960 --> 01:08:46.760 And it's a worthy goal because it's produced wonderful stuff. But yeah, 1029 01:08:46.800 --> 01:08:51.239 I'm just watching a wrestling match. Guy like talk, just stop. That's 1030 01:08:51.319 --> 01:08:54.720 that's that's the extent of it. That's how I feel as a fan, 1031 01:08:55.079 --> 01:08:59.239 you know, So incorporate that into your process however however you will. But 1032 01:09:00.359 --> 01:09:02.840 that's him explaining the process. This of course historic show because John Moxley wins 1033 01:09:02.880 --> 01:09:09.000 the w Championship and his jumping from WWF to a e W was big. 1034 01:09:09.199 --> 01:09:13.159 I remember thinking when aw started, like, man, how can this not 1035 01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:15.359 be TNA and how they could? How can not be TENA is to get 1036 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:21.880 curt Angle immediately right, To get somebody that you would consider outside the reach 1037 01:09:23.600 --> 01:09:28.199 of an upstart group to come in and say yes, to endorse the concept 1038 01:09:28.279 --> 01:09:30.960 of the thing, and to also send signals that these guys can spend. 1039 01:09:30.560 --> 01:09:34.079 You know, Moxley, no matter how unhappy was at WWF was not going 1040 01:09:34.119 --> 01:09:38.279 to come to AW for this huge ass pay cut. I don't think. 1041 01:09:38.359 --> 01:09:41.399 I mean, maybe maybe he would totally disagree with that. I'm not trying 1042 01:09:41.439 --> 01:09:43.199 to put words in his mouth. I'm not trying to be in his head. 1043 01:09:43.880 --> 01:09:45.159 I'm just telling you that as a fan, that was one of the 1044 01:09:45.199 --> 01:09:48.520 first things I thought when he came out, Like, these guys have got 1045 01:09:48.840 --> 01:09:53.239 some spending power if they can. If John Moxley was you know, a 1046 01:09:53.279 --> 01:09:56.479 Stean Ambrose, he was a WW champion. He was right, He's one 1047 01:09:56.479 --> 01:09:59.640 of the top five six guys on the on the depth chart. Totally, 1048 01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:01.840 you know, they went with him. I mean, I guess you can 1049 01:10:01.880 --> 01:10:06.760 say that, I don't know exactly. We were happy to lose him. 1050 01:10:08.000 --> 01:10:12.520 He's a contender, you know. I mean, he's a he's a he's 1051 01:10:12.600 --> 01:10:19.399 a he's a gentleman of sorts. He's certainly that's fucking government's fuck death. 1052 01:10:20.000 --> 01:10:28.399 He's a he's a man who who certainly he certainly you know, has likes 1053 01:10:28.439 --> 01:10:32.439 to have his eggs in a certain basket, you know. But in terms 1054 01:10:32.520 --> 01:10:39.319 of you know, is he that guy? I mean, really, we 1055 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:45.199 we don't see eye eye on that, right. So as multi as multi 1056 01:10:45.239 --> 01:10:49.319 faceted of performers. I think he is. I'm not sure we see the 1057 01:10:49.359 --> 01:10:53.880 same vision as to where he fits best. I'm not sure we see the 1058 01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:59.199 same vision as to him remaining employed with the way and hey, pal, 1059 01:10:59.359 --> 01:11:01.880 that child love so much. That's a product of your union with Renee? 1060 01:11:02.520 --> 01:11:05.000 Who who puts you in the position to meet her? By the way, 1061 01:11:05.039 --> 01:11:09.119 pal, let me let me tell you something. Just make sure that it's 1062 01:11:09.199 --> 01:11:14.319 yours, because it might not be That's all I'm saying, might not be 1063 01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:20.239 yours. How do you mean, Vince, it may be mine. I've 1064 01:11:20.840 --> 01:11:29.239 fornicated with Renee on many occasions, and I've completed inside her with my with 1065 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:34.800 my say it. What's the problem. You're right, Vince, to be 1066 01:11:34.880 --> 01:11:49.439 loosed the signal go ahead with with my man chowders like mantar my Vince McMahon 1067 01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:57.159 showder went inside her, and you know that makes babies. I don't know 1068 01:11:57.199 --> 01:12:00.520 what he turned into a high school health class instruct her, but thanks for 1069 01:12:00.560 --> 01:12:05.960 the lesson. I remember when he came out at Double or Nothing, we 1070 01:12:06.039 --> 01:12:11.119 had a live Remember when I came outside star Cast and we were in Vegas 1071 01:12:11.279 --> 01:12:16.239 and lapsed. Vince was quick to say, like when Renee gets to TV 1072 01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:23.079 Monday. You fucking wait, that's right, and then she ended up going 1073 01:12:23.079 --> 01:12:29.680 to a W eventually, well, yes, after after after she realized that 1074 01:12:30.000 --> 01:12:35.319 that that after we realized that we didn't have the you know, we didn't 1075 01:12:35.359 --> 01:12:41.840 we didn't need her anymore. But she just he was she wasn't she wasn't 1076 01:12:41.960 --> 01:12:46.800 doing it for us as a company, as a brand, as an entertainment 1077 01:12:46.920 --> 01:12:57.039 vehicle on a weekly basis, exactly, and so uh and so the circumstances 1078 01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:00.800 are such that Moxley's looking for the exit. He'd had an injury he came 1079 01:13:00.840 --> 01:13:02.720 back from for his last run in WW, and he was just not passionate 1080 01:13:02.800 --> 01:13:05.640 about it. He talked about this at a recent star cast Inside the Ropes, 1081 01:13:06.359 --> 01:13:09.520 recorded it and has it up on YouTube. Here's a bit of a 1082 01:13:10.079 --> 01:13:15.520 bit of sound as to what was going through Moxley's head when he made the 1083 01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:20.479 decision to leave W for a W and within a matter of months become a 1084 01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:26.840 W World champion. The whole time from the time I came back to about 1085 01:13:27.840 --> 01:13:30.159 the beginning of the year, I knew I was leaving, but I was 1086 01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:34.199 like pissed about it. I wasn't like excited to leave yet I was like 1087 01:13:34.560 --> 01:13:38.319 bitter about it because I'm like, I can't believe they're gonna make me leave. 1088 01:13:38.399 --> 01:13:41.319 They're gonna make me walk away from all this money. I can't believe 1089 01:13:41.399 --> 01:13:44.960 that. Can we not just write one good storyline to get me out right, 1090 01:13:45.039 --> 01:13:47.960 one good prol moods? Everything has to be fucking stupid, everything have 1091 01:13:48.079 --> 01:13:51.159 to make me look like an idiot, Like for Fox take You're gonna make 1092 01:13:51.239 --> 01:13:55.239 me walk away from all this fucking money. Because it's not like I didn't 1093 01:13:55.239 --> 01:13:58.279 want that money, you know. I was like, yeah, I want 1094 01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:00.680 it, but I'm not doing that shit. And I'm like so, I 1095 01:14:00.840 --> 01:14:03.439 was like pissed. I'm like, I can't believe they're gonna They're they're so 1096 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:06.840 fucking competent that they're gonna make me walk away from all this money. Jesus 1097 01:14:06.920 --> 01:14:10.279 Christ, Like, I'm only gonna go back to the indies. Fuck it, 1098 01:14:10.520 --> 01:14:14.760 let's go after about January first, because I remember me and Renee went 1099 01:14:14.800 --> 01:14:19.039 on a hike the Eternal Head Peak was in Red Rock Canyon, uh the 1100 01:14:19.119 --> 01:14:21.880 night before. You know, I was all bitching about the same ship I've 1101 01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:25.000 been bitching about all the time, and I was like, all right, 1102 01:14:25.039 --> 01:14:30.039 tomorrow we're going to hike starting to starting this year off good because January first 1103 01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:33.039 of twenty eighteen, I woke up with the fucking alien head in my arm. 1104 01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:35.800 Those are that picture on the Countdown show was so I was like, 1105 01:14:35.880 --> 01:14:40.399 Okay, twenty eighteen suck. Twenty nineteen is gonna be good. We're starting 1106 01:14:40.439 --> 01:14:44.920 off where a hike fresh air. It's gonna be good. And uh, 1107 01:14:45.319 --> 01:14:47.479 you know, you clear your head, you start talking or whatever. And 1108 01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:50.159 it was like, I don't already know when I was gonna leave, but 1109 01:14:50.239 --> 01:14:54.760 it's like that was the day I was like I started to think about what 1110 01:14:54.800 --> 01:14:57.640 it would actually look like. I'm like, okay, I'll go I'll go 1111 01:14:57.800 --> 01:15:00.600 Japan. I don't know where in Japan, but one of them the bunch 1112 01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:03.239 companies in Japana over there. I'll go back to the indies and I'll just 1113 01:15:03.359 --> 01:15:05.840 like make my own schedule. Oh that'd be sweet because I'll be able to 1114 01:15:05.880 --> 01:15:08.840 make my own schedule, dude. And I was like, man, we're 1115 01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:11.319 gonna have free time, we get schedule a vacation for once. Actually, 1116 01:15:11.399 --> 01:15:13.720 this is gonna be great. And I started to get excited about I'm like 1117 01:15:15.319 --> 01:15:19.000 That's when I was like, oh, I'm leaving it's gonna be awesome. 1118 01:15:19.239 --> 01:15:23.720 And then at that point I got excited about it. And then uh, 1119 01:15:23.800 --> 01:15:29.399 and that was before the aw thing even happened. Then's any any thoughts there 1120 01:15:29.439 --> 01:15:33.199 on Moxy's commentary. Well, I mean, you know, the the thing 1121 01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:35.640 is, when when it comes down to it, you know, we offered 1122 01:15:35.720 --> 01:15:43.960 him a multitude of of quality, you know, well written, well designed 1123 01:15:44.479 --> 01:15:49.880 story features, you know, for him to to to to participate in in 1124 01:15:49.960 --> 01:15:55.840 the competitive nature, and you know, he, uh, he decided that 1125 01:15:56.119 --> 01:16:02.920 these were not of of his of his uh you know caliber, And we 1126 01:16:03.079 --> 01:16:06.199 said, well, okay, let me let's see what can we do, 1127 01:16:06.399 --> 01:16:12.720 what can we do to to maybe entertain, you know, the entertainment that 1128 01:16:12.840 --> 01:16:16.520 you want. You know, how can we entertain you John Moxley or Danim 1129 01:16:16.600 --> 01:16:21.039 Brose, whatever the fuck his name is. And you know, he continued 1130 01:16:21.079 --> 01:16:28.640 to basically just say he reminded me of a child who just wants to dislike 1131 01:16:28.800 --> 01:16:31.159 whatever it is you're offering. And it got to the point where we're like 1132 01:16:31.359 --> 01:16:35.960 we you know, I said to to to my contemporaries, I said, 1133 01:16:36.000 --> 01:16:40.079 well, you know that he just does not seem to want anything that we 1134 01:16:40.279 --> 01:16:44.399 want that we're willing to offer him. So so what can we do? 1135 01:16:44.880 --> 01:16:48.079 And they gave a number of you know, maybe let him write his own 1136 01:16:48.800 --> 01:16:53.680 his own storyline or come up with his own ideas, and you know, 1137 01:16:53.800 --> 01:16:57.439 maybe he can write his own promos or you know, choose someone he wants 1138 01:16:57.439 --> 01:16:59.600 to have a program with. You know, we we threw a lot of 1139 01:17:00.760 --> 01:17:02.600 We threw a lot of different options out there, and uh. And then 1140 01:17:02.640 --> 01:17:05.039 I said, well, christ sakes, we let him have brock with a 1141 01:17:05.119 --> 01:17:09.439 chain, summing absolutely And I said, well, these are all interesting, 1142 01:17:10.079 --> 01:17:13.800 but personally, I think the best option we have is to kill him, 1143 01:17:15.239 --> 01:17:19.199 which you know, the the mike Mike, when you say kill him, 1144 01:17:19.680 --> 01:17:28.439 yes, you mean what in what bury his character, make him useless to 1145 01:17:28.479 --> 01:17:30.840 the fan, ruin his market value, no, no, no, no 1146 01:17:30.960 --> 01:17:35.680 no, To to cease life, to end him, to to have a 1147 01:17:35.760 --> 01:17:43.159 funeral for the the physical being that is Dean Ambrose, to you know, 1148 01:17:43.319 --> 01:17:45.720 to widow his girlfriend or whatever the fuck she has. How would you propose 1149 01:17:45.800 --> 01:17:49.760 to do that? Well, I mean we didn't. I gave a number 1150 01:17:49.800 --> 01:17:51.960 of options. I said, we could go simple. We could just do 1151 01:17:53.119 --> 01:17:58.920 you know, just shoot him in the head with a gun. There was 1152 01:17:59.000 --> 01:18:00.680 the option we could do did with own heart, you know, just drop 1153 01:18:00.840 --> 01:18:06.239 him. But you know these were these were frowned upon by the by the 1154 01:18:06.319 --> 01:18:11.600 board of directors. And I said, okay, well, then we're kind 1155 01:18:11.640 --> 01:18:14.960 of at an impasse here. You know, we don't have the I'm not 1156 01:18:15.279 --> 01:18:18.079 we We've given him enough creative leeway, and if you're not willing to let 1157 01:18:18.199 --> 01:18:26.520 him be destroyed on a physical nature, then the only option we have is 1158 01:18:26.560 --> 01:18:29.479 to let him write out his contract and get the funk out of Dodge. 1159 01:18:31.039 --> 01:18:35.319 I still think we should have killed him. I would love to have dropped 1160 01:18:35.399 --> 01:18:40.479 him from seventy feet. Remember Vince, when you did the Steve Boston podcast 1161 01:18:40.560 --> 01:18:43.880 around the launch of the network. Uh, Steve was asking you, you 1162 01:18:43.960 --> 01:18:46.520 know who you thought in the current roster of the current crop were guys that 1163 01:18:46.720 --> 01:18:50.119 you know had top guy ability and and you were, you know, kind 1164 01:18:50.159 --> 01:18:53.119 of off the top of your head listing off names. And you said, 1165 01:18:53.119 --> 01:18:57.760 I don't know if it's an ambrose. You you brought him up, and 1166 01:18:57.920 --> 01:19:00.279 yet here you are. Well, I said, I don't know if as 1167 01:19:00.279 --> 01:19:02.479 an ambrose. I didn't say that it was an ambrose. I said, 1168 01:19:02.479 --> 01:19:05.520 I don't know, which means you know a multitude of things. You know 1169 01:19:05.680 --> 01:19:09.640 that just means that. Well, at the time, did I see him 1170 01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:11.840 as a main of enter? I don't know. At the time, did 1171 01:19:11.880 --> 01:19:15.000 I see him as someone who have the ability to be a main of enter? 1172 01:19:15.039 --> 01:19:18.359 I do not know. What I do know is that he did not 1173 01:19:18.760 --> 01:19:25.279 turn out to be a worthy investment within the WWE system. Should he have 1174 01:19:25.399 --> 01:19:30.479 been more appreciative and more sort of considerate of the possibilities of the idea of 1175 01:19:30.560 --> 01:19:34.800 being the lunatic fringe That was the moniker you assigned to him and we had 1176 01:19:34.840 --> 01:19:39.479 to listen to announcers on WWB television tell him the lunatic fringe for years. 1177 01:19:39.560 --> 01:19:44.920 Yes, did I appreciate the possibilities, the creative possibilities that that opened for 1178 01:19:45.000 --> 01:19:46.680 him to be called that? Well, you see the thing. See, 1179 01:19:46.920 --> 01:19:50.840 I'm not aware, you know, I'm not in his brain. I don't 1180 01:19:50.880 --> 01:19:55.880 have that capability. But what I can say is that, you know, 1181 01:19:56.039 --> 01:20:03.319 when we when we bounced around a number umber of different character phraseology to focus 1182 01:20:03.439 --> 01:20:09.079 groups, the one that got the most response was indeed the lunatic fringe, 1183 01:20:09.560 --> 01:20:14.319 and it certainly marketed well, it certainly played well. And the fact that 1184 01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:21.159 he that mister Ambrose as an individual, a competitor and a performer, an 1185 01:20:21.560 --> 01:20:31.720 entertainer could not find a way to make such a marketable a term and a 1186 01:20:31.800 --> 01:20:46.439 marketable character. Work really reflects poorly on mister Ambrose. And so what was 1187 01:20:46.560 --> 01:20:51.520 your sort of thought as to where the lunatic Fringe character could go? When 1188 01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:55.880 you when you think lunatic Fringe, what do you think in terms of others? 1189 01:20:57.319 --> 01:20:59.479 The thing is, you know, I mean we're looking at it from 1190 01:20:59.479 --> 01:21:05.880 a total from a multitude of different you know, different perspectives, not only 1191 01:21:05.960 --> 01:21:12.079 in terms of the the on the television vehiculars, you know, perspective, 1192 01:21:12.159 --> 01:21:15.079 also the live audience perspective. You know, we're also looking at at at 1193 01:21:15.119 --> 01:21:19.640 the perspective of shareholders, the the perspective of That's one thing, you know, 1194 01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:23.520 say what you will about Dean Ambrose. He never thought about the shareholders. 1195 01:21:23.720 --> 01:21:26.600 I mean, that's just it. He thinks of himself as as artists 1196 01:21:26.720 --> 01:21:30.760 only and uh, you know, as as a performer, but really as 1197 01:21:30.800 --> 01:21:35.760 a performer, you do answer to a number of individuals. And you know, 1198 01:21:35.960 --> 01:21:42.000 we're you know, when it comes to the bottom line, you know, 1199 01:21:42.199 --> 01:21:46.479 we're looking at in terms of characters and within the WWE system, we're 1200 01:21:46.520 --> 01:21:57.880 looking at growth, hacking all right, you know, yeah, tight nutrition 1201 01:21:57.960 --> 01:22:03.359 style. You know, we're look because because because really is that what some 1202 01:22:03.439 --> 01:22:05.720 of the top guys call the ship they can get their hands on outside of 1203 01:22:05.760 --> 01:22:11.159 wellness these days? I mean, Brock is certainly a growth hacker. I 1204 01:22:11.279 --> 01:22:15.960 definitely think that there are a number of individuals who who are able to get 1205 01:22:15.000 --> 01:22:23.479 their hands on growth, get their hands on on particular growth hacking supplements. 1206 01:22:24.960 --> 01:22:28.199 So you change the age from hormone to hacking, got it? Uh? 1207 01:22:30.439 --> 01:22:34.479 You know? So again we look at it from a holistic perspective. You 1208 01:22:34.560 --> 01:22:41.079 know, we're looking at the ROI Innerdina Ambrose. We're looking at and a 1209 01:22:41.199 --> 01:22:45.039 lunatic fringe as well. By the way, the the you know, we're 1210 01:22:45.199 --> 01:22:48.880 exactly we're looking at the IP. How does it uh uh you know, 1211 01:22:49.079 --> 01:22:53.000 is it a disruptor? Is it you know, is it within the wheelhouse 1212 01:22:53.119 --> 01:22:57.840 of the ww perspective? Is it a is it best practice? Does it 1213 01:22:58.079 --> 01:23:02.199 move the needle? Are we talking big data? You know? But all 1214 01:23:02.359 --> 01:23:08.359 and all again we're looking at how can we hold on a second? I 1215 01:23:08.479 --> 01:23:13.399 just realized if if the most famous wrestler in the history of UK wrestling were 1216 01:23:13.439 --> 01:23:16.039 to come along these days, he wouldn't be big Daddy. He would be 1217 01:23:16.319 --> 01:23:27.239 big data. I believe he would be a big data Yes, absolutely that 1218 01:23:27.520 --> 01:23:32.680 because again you know, we are a collaborative organization. And did Denambros appreciate 1219 01:23:32.760 --> 01:23:36.439 that? I you know, you'd have to ask Dan Ambrose about that, 1220 01:23:36.760 --> 01:23:45.039 because that you know, we're looking at this at our collaborative nature in terms 1221 01:23:45.079 --> 01:23:50.720 of intelligence, whether it be artificial, business, emotional, market competitive otherwise, 1222 01:23:51.359 --> 01:24:00.439 we are simply trying to get some sort of intelligent strategy for an IP 1223 01:24:00.840 --> 01:24:08.560 such as such as the lunatic fringe. And you know, we do we 1224 01:24:08.720 --> 01:24:13.720 take a long look at as we're creating these characters. You know, these 1225 01:24:13.760 --> 01:24:16.279 are not just some things that we throw around and see what stick we we 1226 01:24:16.439 --> 01:24:24.600 have. You know, these are we have intuitive analytics that that create each 1227 01:24:24.720 --> 01:24:32.720 platform and then we unpack the pros and cons most of the cons you know, 1228 01:24:32.920 --> 01:24:38.960 and you know, to decide if if you know, what we have 1229 01:24:39.199 --> 01:24:47.720 here provides the core competency that each character U requires, you know, and 1230 01:24:48.079 --> 01:24:54.159 for our for all of our our employees who are in part of in that 1231 01:24:54.359 --> 01:25:00.560 creative dynamic. You know we're talking these these people have a full plate all 1232 01:25:00.640 --> 01:25:10.920 the time, you know, and again we look at does this character integrate 1233 01:25:11.239 --> 01:25:16.000 within the w t B system, does it engage within the w TW system? 1234 01:25:16.720 --> 01:25:21.680 Is it efficient? Is it social? Is it diverse? And is 1235 01:25:21.760 --> 01:25:25.920 it an actionable character? Right that, See, those are all things he 1236 01:25:26.119 --> 01:25:30.960 never considered before, exactly complaining right and and and these are the things, 1237 01:25:31.039 --> 01:25:34.880 you know, because we we are a machine, you know, we're not 1238 01:25:35.039 --> 01:25:39.359 just we're not just a group of individuals. We are a machine, and 1239 01:25:39.560 --> 01:25:46.119 every every gear within the machine, you know, affects everybody else. So 1240 01:25:47.600 --> 01:25:50.680 if if if that's not something that he's interested in, then you know, 1241 01:25:50.880 --> 01:25:56.279 we we wish him luck in his future endeavors. Yeah, I can't imagine 1242 01:25:56.279 --> 01:26:00.239 why he left, can't imagine. He tells several stories in his book, 1243 01:26:00.239 --> 01:26:04.159 which I recommend. It's a really good book of just the creative frustrations he's 1244 01:26:04.199 --> 01:26:08.560 describing. You know, he'll drop an F bomb on TV by mistake, 1245 01:26:09.039 --> 01:26:11.920 not not on an on mike moment, but like in Ring, just you 1246 01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:14.760 know, getting lost in the fight and everything, and they'll cuss him out 1247 01:26:14.760 --> 01:26:17.600 and he'll apologize, and then the apology isn't good enough or and they start 1248 01:26:17.640 --> 01:26:20.399 calling him we know, you're a different kind of cat. And he's very 1249 01:26:20.520 --> 01:26:25.439 self conscious about being made fun of. You know, he's not just He's 1250 01:26:25.479 --> 01:26:28.600 not a guy that's going to sit there and laugh along while you say he's 1251 01:26:29.079 --> 01:26:32.079 quirky, you know, or you say things that could be backhanded compliments. 1252 01:26:32.119 --> 01:26:35.319 He's one of those guys, you know what I mean. He talks about 1253 01:26:35.359 --> 01:26:40.079 it. But see, then again we're talking about an individual who can't just 1254 01:26:40.279 --> 01:26:44.640 go with the flow, right because in WW like, you cannot expect to 1255 01:26:44.840 --> 01:26:49.760 be a prime player unless you accept that certain people in the organization can dress 1256 01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:54.239 you down to your face and you take it. Also, I mean, 1257 01:26:54.439 --> 01:26:59.600 are you expecting that everybody needs to respect your idea as a good idea? 1258 01:27:00.119 --> 01:27:01.720 Maybe it's not a good idea. Maybe you're the only one who thinks it's 1259 01:27:01.720 --> 01:27:05.119 a good idea, right, I mean, it's not you accepted that you 1260 01:27:05.159 --> 01:27:10.600 can be our world champion and our most important guy and have zero respect of 1261 01:27:10.720 --> 01:27:13.720 Vince Making. I mean, can you expect the fact that you can be 1262 01:27:14.760 --> 01:27:19.279 the face of the company, the world champion and not mean shit? Right 1263 01:27:21.920 --> 01:27:29.439 that without us or at all? That's true? And so in his book, 1264 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:33.359 he recounts the germs of him jumping and then and then the actual moment. 1265 01:27:33.760 --> 01:27:36.520 He writes January twenty nineteen. First I heard of Tony con was from 1266 01:27:36.560 --> 01:27:40.479 Chris Jericho. I hadn't talked with christ And sometime about anything that didn't involve 1267 01:27:40.520 --> 01:27:43.720 sasquatch like monsters or UFOs. I did know he had been doing a lot 1268 01:27:43.760 --> 01:27:45.520 of stuff outside WBE. He wrestled for New Japan and even had his own 1269 01:27:45.560 --> 01:27:48.199 cruise. Now, after our New Year New Year's Day hike which you just 1270 01:27:48.279 --> 01:27:51.000 referenced there, I mentioned to Renee that I was going to hit up Jericho 1271 01:27:51.039 --> 01:27:54.239 and get to lay the land. From his perspective, I hadn't been on 1272 01:27:54.279 --> 01:27:58.119 the Indies since twenty eleven, and the who landscape outside WWB had changed dramatically 1273 01:27:58.159 --> 01:28:00.199 in eight years. I never made dick on the Indian never made dick on 1274 01:28:00.239 --> 01:28:02.680 the Indies, But now a lot of folks were making good money. There 1275 01:28:02.720 --> 01:28:06.239 were groups with TV. There was something called gc W. Now these days 1276 01:28:06.479 --> 01:28:10.840 everyone can stream guess DVD's aren't a thing anymore. Before I left cz W, 1277 01:28:11.279 --> 01:28:13.720 Drake, Nick Gage and I had a three way light tube fest in 1278 01:28:13.760 --> 01:28:16.439 front of fifty rampid Lumberton, North Carolina. Fans had a weird bought show, 1279 01:28:16.600 --> 01:28:20.239 sacrificing pints of blood for the sole purpose of putting out a hot seller 1280 01:28:20.560 --> 01:28:25.479 on smart Mark Video. Everything's different f and Ripped than Winkle. There seemed 1281 01:28:25.479 --> 01:28:28.319 to be a lot of cross promotion now it was a little overwhelming. Trying 1282 01:28:28.319 --> 01:28:30.479 to make a sense of it all. I figure Jericho could give me a 1283 01:28:30.520 --> 01:28:34.319 good look at who might be totally full of shit. I also just violent, 1284 01:28:34.439 --> 01:28:40.279 hopelessly, hopelessly into the death bell style. You know, I just 1285 01:28:40.479 --> 01:28:44.399 don't understand that. I saw him get the things hammered into his head in 1286 01:28:44.479 --> 01:28:47.560 London. Yeah, and like the peacock feathers coming out of his head. 1287 01:28:47.880 --> 01:28:49.960 I hated it. I hated all of it. I thought it was just 1288 01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:55.039 so unnecessary. He's such a good wrestler. He didn't do any of that 1289 01:28:55.600 --> 01:29:00.239 against Orange Cassidy and the aforementioned main event, so he can. That's a 1290 01:29:00.279 --> 01:29:03.560 thing like that. That's what makes it so hard about criticizing modern wrestlers is 1291 01:29:03.640 --> 01:29:06.159 they can do the things that you accuse them of not being able to do. 1292 01:29:06.359 --> 01:29:10.960 They can do them, they choose not to and people it's why I 1293 01:29:11.000 --> 01:29:13.840 accuse them, right, And that's that's something you can hold against them. 1294 01:29:14.039 --> 01:29:16.600 But I think people general just assume that that they're doing that as shortcuts, 1295 01:29:16.640 --> 01:29:18.479 and it's like, now they've done everything else, they just choose to do 1296 01:29:18.479 --> 01:29:21.960 it this way. Nope. I And that's why I lose respect for them, 1297 01:29:21.960 --> 01:29:26.159 because they don't do it in a way that's that's like they do this 1298 01:29:26.439 --> 01:29:30.399 bullshit and and that's their choice, and I hate it. It's definitely now 1299 01:29:30.520 --> 01:29:32.159 baked into the cake of aw like we went to blood and guts, like 1300 01:29:32.239 --> 01:29:38.079 he's bringing the bed of nails and their blast attacks, like the toothpaste is 1301 01:29:38.119 --> 01:29:40.720 out of the tube. Like if they don't do this every if he doesn't 1302 01:29:40.760 --> 01:29:42.880 do this just about every time he's out there, people are going to be 1303 01:29:43.319 --> 01:29:45.079 feeling like they didn't get their money's worth. He's he's he's done that to 1304 01:29:45.159 --> 01:29:49.479 AJW for better or worse for worse? Yeah, because he turned out that 1305 01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:54.479 what he all when he's voicing all these deep seated creative frustrations at w B. 1306 01:29:54.640 --> 01:29:57.520 Yeah, a lot of it is the absolutely hokey dialogue that he's asked 1307 01:29:57.560 --> 01:30:00.439 to deliver. And he's a guy who's just a wonderful promo. He you 1308 01:30:00.479 --> 01:30:03.000 know, he just turned You just turn the knob on his back and he'll 1309 01:30:03.039 --> 01:30:08.199 go and he'll guess, you know, he just keep fucking bugs me. 1310 01:30:08.520 --> 01:30:12.359 I don't like the way he talks. He like listening even to that clip 1311 01:30:12.399 --> 01:30:15.319 he played, I just annoyed me. He's just annoying, Like he's just 1312 01:30:15.479 --> 01:30:23.680 like a you know, and listen, I like, I don't, I 1313 01:30:23.720 --> 01:30:26.920 don't know, like I don't. I don't respect his opinion at all. 1314 01:30:27.640 --> 01:30:30.239 I don't respect his thought process. I see him as just honestly, he 1315 01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:34.560 comes across like a bitch. Yeah, like honestly, you know, listen, 1316 01:30:34.600 --> 01:30:39.039 I'm not saying if you if you if you are not happy in the 1317 01:30:39.119 --> 01:30:44.239 company, then don't be there, then leave. But like exactly, but 1318 01:30:44.479 --> 01:30:47.680 it's like at the same time, you know, you're you're whining it about 1319 01:30:47.840 --> 01:30:53.079 them not giving you shit, But you know, make the best of it 1320 01:30:53.159 --> 01:30:55.039 if you want to, if you want the money or whatever, make the 1321 01:30:55.079 --> 01:30:58.359 best of it. Try to try to. I guess. Yeah, he 1322 01:30:58.439 --> 01:31:00.800 had like four or five solid years of, you know, according to him, 1323 01:31:00.880 --> 01:31:03.199 taking things that he never wanted to say and never wanted to do and 1324 01:31:03.319 --> 01:31:06.000 going out there and trying to make it the absolute basic. But here's the 1325 01:31:06.079 --> 01:31:09.680 thing. Here's the thing. There are so many people who can do it, 1326 01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:14.279 so really, who's the fucking failure in that regard. No no, 1327 01:31:14.359 --> 01:31:15.880 no, no, no, I'm saying there are guys who are able to 1328 01:31:16.359 --> 01:31:21.960 who are able to manipulate their circumstances in in the WWE so that they can 1329 01:31:23.119 --> 01:31:27.920 do what they want. So he's not that that caliber of player. I 1330 01:31:28.000 --> 01:31:30.920 know he's not. I get it. So I think he made the right 1331 01:31:30.000 --> 01:31:35.039 choice for himself, realizing you haven't tried it, no doubt, no doubt. 1332 01:31:35.600 --> 01:31:40.960 But like everything, it's like, I don't know there there there doesn't 1333 01:31:41.000 --> 01:31:43.319 seem to be. I don't feel like it. And maybe this is why 1334 01:31:43.359 --> 01:31:45.000 why he rubs me the wrong way. Cript if I'm wrong, but it 1335 01:31:45.119 --> 01:31:48.319 just seemed like because I could be very well be wrong, but it seemed 1336 01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:57.039 like, at least in that clip, that he wasn't taking any responsibility for 1337 01:31:58.880 --> 01:32:02.720 any of the ship that happened. I think he like he blames everybody else. 1338 01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:05.439 He was told this is what you can do to get around that, 1339 01:32:05.640 --> 01:32:09.439 and he did it, and it did nothing for him. He just kept 1340 01:32:09.479 --> 01:32:13.079 getting handed stuff that he found like totally juvenile and objectionable, and it was. 1341 01:32:13.680 --> 01:32:15.640 And what that is is Vince doesn't think you're a top guy, and 1342 01:32:16.239 --> 01:32:19.199 they don't have the heart to say it out right because they need you because 1343 01:32:19.239 --> 01:32:23.600 you're a reliable hand and you're you're good with the material we give you, 1344 01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:26.960 and you're an important part of the show. But you're never going to be 1345 01:32:27.039 --> 01:32:31.039 a person that's allowed to say, fuck this, I want to do what 1346 01:32:31.119 --> 01:32:33.520 I want to do. There's like, you know, six people at a 1347 01:32:33.560 --> 01:32:35.680 time that can do that, and you were never going to be one of 1348 01:32:35.760 --> 01:32:39.880 them. And so you know that's this thing like, yeah, you can 1349 01:32:39.960 --> 01:32:42.680 have the wit to pull it off, you could have the guile to pull 1350 01:32:42.720 --> 01:32:45.840 it off, but you also need to have the extra element of Vince sees 1351 01:32:45.880 --> 01:32:51.039 you as somebody that ought to have that voice, and very almost nobody maybe 1352 01:32:51.079 --> 01:32:54.800 Punk is the exception, but we saw what happened with that guy. He 1353 01:32:54.920 --> 01:32:59.560 ended up going completely insane because of how hard it was to hold up being 1354 01:32:59.640 --> 01:33:02.359 the guy that's going to do what he wants to do and represent his own 1355 01:33:02.439 --> 01:33:05.920 interests at a time when they didn't see him as someone worthy of that position. 1356 01:33:06.319 --> 01:33:11.079 You eventually go even more crazy than if you just do whatever it is 1357 01:33:11.119 --> 01:33:13.840 they hand you to the best of your ability, And that is sort of 1358 01:33:13.920 --> 01:33:17.960 like not for certain for certain breed of wrestler, that's worse than not being 1359 01:33:18.000 --> 01:33:20.840 in wrestling at all is to show up to the building and being like, 1360 01:33:21.760 --> 01:33:28.199 I could not possibly get passion together for this, because you know, you're 1361 01:33:28.279 --> 01:33:31.560 driving hundreds of miles between towns, you're on you're on the plane, you're 1362 01:33:31.680 --> 01:33:36.000 thinking about wrestling twenty four seven, and you got to WB because the things 1363 01:33:36.359 --> 01:33:41.239 that entered your mind in those in between times and those moments of drudgery are 1364 01:33:41.319 --> 01:33:44.039 things that you could put into action in the ring and on the microphone that 1365 01:33:44.159 --> 01:33:46.760 grew your prospects and grew your value, and grew the level of awareness of 1366 01:33:46.800 --> 01:33:49.880 who you were as a character on those smaller circuits and in some degree in 1367 01:33:49.880 --> 01:33:54.359 the developmental system at FCW in this case, and then all of a sudden 1368 01:33:54.760 --> 01:33:57.239 he tails us. Really well, you get to this point where it's like 1369 01:33:57.680 --> 01:34:03.720 that part of you has to die because all the lifetime of habitually thinking about 1370 01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:06.159 the next thing you can do to get people's attention, the next thing you 1371 01:34:06.199 --> 01:34:11.720 can say to get people's attention has no outlet. It has no chance in 1372 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:15.239 the face of the script they hand you every Monday. And some guys are 1373 01:34:15.279 --> 01:34:16.399 great at just saying fuck it. You know, I'm working for WWE. 1374 01:34:16.520 --> 01:34:19.399 This is awesome, This is the best money you can make in wrestling. 1375 01:34:19.680 --> 01:34:23.439 I'm going to stay famous. I can put away enough money so that I 1376 01:34:23.479 --> 01:34:26.920 can actually hope to live a decent life when they decide they're done with me. 1377 01:34:27.640 --> 01:34:29.800 But for others, it's like, I don't even want to be in 1378 01:34:29.880 --> 01:34:33.239 wrestling if I can't find an outlet for the ship that's popping off in my 1379 01:34:33.279 --> 01:34:39.239 head every fifteen minutes. I guess, I mean, I guess. But 1380 01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:43.640 to me that's also like, I mean, that's I'm not saying it's right 1381 01:34:43.720 --> 01:34:45.399 or wrong. I'm not saying it's right. I listen, I believe that 1382 01:34:45.479 --> 01:34:51.760 everybody. I believe in a perfect world, if life were fair, right, 1383 01:34:54.880 --> 01:35:00.479 you know, any creative person would be able to make money on all 1384 01:35:00.560 --> 01:35:04.640 their ideas and would they would be able to execute their ideas, their vision. 1385 01:35:05.520 --> 01:35:09.840 But it's not like that. There's not an ounce of that in any 1386 01:35:10.560 --> 01:35:14.359 It's the you know, if it's funny because if you think about it, 1387 01:35:14.479 --> 01:35:19.800 like the people who are at the top of wrestling are like the one percent 1388 01:35:20.800 --> 01:35:25.800 of all the wrestlers in the world, right, who are the people who 1389 01:35:25.800 --> 01:35:29.720 are in like say W A. E. W in America are the one 1390 01:35:29.800 --> 01:35:34.039 percent? But then to be to be on the level that he's talking about. 1391 01:35:34.359 --> 01:35:38.279 You have to be the one percent of the one percent. Yeah, 1392 01:35:38.319 --> 01:35:43.079 you have to. It's just to convince McMahon at a certain point that at 1393 01:35:43.079 --> 01:35:45.600 a certain point in contract negotiations renewal, that he needs to pay you, 1394 01:35:46.439 --> 01:35:49.000 you know whatever. I don't know millions of dollars a year. I don't 1395 01:35:49.000 --> 01:35:51.800 know what his highest learning year was. I have no idea. But the 1396 01:35:51.920 --> 01:35:56.079 thing people can't forget about Vince is he's not going to see you as a 1397 01:35:56.159 --> 01:36:00.840 top guy if you haven't first maneuvered your way into being one of the top 1398 01:36:00.880 --> 01:36:02.880 paid guys in the company. Because Vince is like most rich people, he 1399 01:36:03.159 --> 01:36:06.119 always feels like people are trying to fuck him out of his money. Yeah, 1400 01:36:06.359 --> 01:36:10.359 the more money you have, the more paranoid you are that someone's getting 1401 01:36:10.399 --> 01:36:13.479 two dollars off of you that they don't deserve, you know what I mean. 1402 01:36:13.600 --> 01:36:16.239 The poor, the middle class, they hardly ever worry about getting screwed 1403 01:36:16.319 --> 01:36:19.279 or they just accepted as part of life. The richer you are, the 1404 01:36:19.399 --> 01:36:24.239 more you're like, this guy isn't justifying what I'm paying him. And so 1405 01:36:24.439 --> 01:36:28.600 for Vince, these guys get these massive pushes when it comes to a moment 1406 01:36:28.640 --> 01:36:30.840 of leverage at the bargaining table where he rather would not lose you due to 1407 01:36:30.880 --> 01:36:33.159 competition or whatever the case might be. Look at Brock. I mean, 1408 01:36:33.399 --> 01:36:36.000 yeah, Brock at a massive push in two thousand and two, But look 1409 01:36:36.039 --> 01:36:40.359 at how much more leverage he came to the table with after leaving the way 1410 01:36:40.399 --> 01:36:44.199 he did and coming back with the UFC tailwind behind him and being able to 1411 01:36:44.239 --> 01:36:47.079 go to UFC and make millions whenever Vince pissed him off. That's the only 1412 01:36:47.119 --> 01:36:50.279 way you're going to be able to be a shot caller like a Sina like 1413 01:36:50.399 --> 01:36:56.640 he could go and just do. He could transform any wrestling territory overnight into 1414 01:36:56.720 --> 01:37:00.479 a viable number one, just like Hogan did ninety four. He's gonna he's 1415 01:37:00.479 --> 01:37:03.079 going to respect that more than more than your ability. He's going to respect 1416 01:37:03.079 --> 01:37:06.000 the fact that he has to pay you a certain amount, and so god 1417 01:37:06.079 --> 01:37:09.840 damn it, he's going to push you in a way where he's telling himself 1418 01:37:10.119 --> 01:37:14.239 that he's earning a return on how much he's paying you. And Ambrose never 1419 01:37:14.279 --> 01:37:16.479 found himself. I don't think in a position to have a kind of contract 1420 01:37:16.720 --> 01:37:21.119 where Vince would say I'm going to let this guy pooh pooh scripts and without 1421 01:37:21.159 --> 01:37:26.399 any consequence for how he's viewed internally. We're not going to you know, 1422 01:37:26.439 --> 01:37:29.600 he's not going to suffer any ill consequence for calling our shit stupid or doing 1423 01:37:29.640 --> 01:37:31.560 the kind of thing Steve Austen has always done. I think Sina was probably 1424 01:37:31.640 --> 01:37:35.760 more political about it, but he certainly turned things down Rains my impressions, 1425 01:37:35.800 --> 01:37:40.000 no one even approaches Rains with Creative. It's like Roman figures it out in 1426 01:37:40.039 --> 01:37:42.640 its money. So you know, one can deny that the ratings and SmackDown 1427 01:37:42.640 --> 01:37:45.399 are absolutely fantastic, and Hayman is the secret sauce there, just like he 1428 01:37:45.520 --> 01:37:48.439 was with Punk in the Summer of Punk. The Hayman's right there, you 1429 01:37:48.520 --> 01:37:54.000 know, sort of minding the affairs, the creative affairs, being the creative 1430 01:37:54.039 --> 01:37:59.479 go between and the person that can soften discontent in the back and forth to 1431 01:37:59.520 --> 01:38:03.439 where it comes out benefiting the party that he's attached his wagon to at the 1432 01:38:03.479 --> 01:38:06.279 given moment. But yeah, I think Dean was never going to be a 1433 01:38:06.319 --> 01:38:09.680 guy because he's just not You saw him on that Austin interview. He's not 1434 01:38:09.760 --> 01:38:15.479 capable of talking himself up right backstage politically, to the point that he could 1435 01:38:15.479 --> 01:38:18.479 ever justify a contract like that. Cody comes in and now Vince is going 1436 01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:21.920 to rip the heart out a w of course, Cody's going to be able 1437 01:38:21.920 --> 01:38:26.199 to have all kinds of say so and what he says out there because he's 1438 01:38:26.239 --> 01:38:30.520 being paid in such a way that that's that's a precondition of getting him, 1439 01:38:30.720 --> 01:38:33.359 and that's in the Vince gott n events was like, fine, like whatever 1440 01:38:33.560 --> 01:38:36.920 you know, tell whatever story you want to tell, Tell whatever story you 1441 01:38:38.000 --> 01:38:40.439 want to tell for us to get you, because it's not you I want, 1442 01:38:40.560 --> 01:38:45.640 it's it's the destruction of aw that I want. And so that's that's 1443 01:38:45.680 --> 01:38:47.960 that that's leveraged. I don't think he ever had. And they so they 1444 01:38:47.960 --> 01:38:51.399 saw him as a you know, as somebody that really wasn't shit without their 1445 01:38:53.359 --> 01:38:56.640 creative flourishes being sprinkled on top of him. Honestly, that's what it was. 1446 01:38:57.239 --> 01:39:00.640 And he just had a Vince had a goofy fucking idea of what you 1447 01:39:00.720 --> 01:39:03.000 know that that phrase that's such great ship pal that people always attribute to Vincey 1448 01:39:03.319 --> 01:39:06.520 that that came from Moxley. Yeah, when he did I think the first 1449 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:10.279 interview he did when he jumped was with wid Keller p w Church, and 1450 01:39:10.359 --> 01:39:14.479 he said he was explaining a story where something was pitched to him that was 1451 01:39:14.560 --> 01:39:17.920 just just creative that he felt was impossible to make good and believable. And 1452 01:39:18.279 --> 01:39:20.479 when he pushed back and Vince in that way, Vince, but it's such 1453 01:39:20.520 --> 01:39:24.720 good shit, Pal, And it was like that moment of like, this 1454 01:39:24.800 --> 01:39:28.760 guy's not there's no like changing this guy's mind. There's no having him see 1455 01:39:28.800 --> 01:39:32.199 it the way I see it. So down the drain it all goes. 1456 01:39:34.399 --> 01:39:38.920 So he continues in the book, I hadn't breathed a word about my plans 1457 01:39:38.960 --> 01:39:41.039 to anyone but my wife, and I didn't feel I could talk about it 1458 01:39:41.239 --> 01:39:44.039 with anybody in WWE. Chris is one of the smartest guys in the business 1459 01:39:44.279 --> 01:39:45.600 and somebody I trust. So I was curious about what the reaction would be 1460 01:39:45.600 --> 01:39:47.800 when I told him I was planning to walk across the bridge. I knew 1461 01:39:47.840 --> 01:39:50.640 fullwell would likely blow up behind me. So here it is. This is 1462 01:39:50.840 --> 01:39:56.840 Jericho versus Moxley. And that's actually pretty poetic because it was an interactionally, 1463 01:39:57.199 --> 01:40:00.399 they got him into the first places. And so that's another thing that's another 1464 01:40:00.479 --> 01:40:03.720 huge part of Jericho. And you talked about how important it was for him 1465 01:40:03.760 --> 01:40:08.439 to be there from day one and winning the world title first behind the scenes, 1466 01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:11.720 convincing a whole host of people a Christian cage. You go to Callis, 1467 01:40:11.760 --> 01:40:13.880 you know what Callis would come in because of Omega, But you go 1468 01:40:13.960 --> 01:40:17.000 to so many people that Jake Hager, so many people that he was able 1469 01:40:17.039 --> 01:40:23.239 to convince that AW was a pond worth jumping into. I'm sure he played 1470 01:40:23.239 --> 01:40:28.000 a role, honestly in everybody that ever had started in WW that's come to 1471 01:40:28.039 --> 01:40:32.520 AW apart and interacting with them and convincing them, answering their questions, you 1472 01:40:32.560 --> 01:40:36.720 know, because Tony Kahn was a very unknown entity from the perspective of someone, 1473 01:40:36.800 --> 01:40:41.560 can this guy actually finance an organization that's going to be able to build 1474 01:40:41.680 --> 01:40:43.720 enough revenue to stay around for a year? Where are going to look like 1475 01:40:43.760 --> 01:40:47.039 idiots for jumping in with both feet on his vision one of you know, 1476 01:40:47.199 --> 01:40:53.520 ten or fifteen people who've had money right in their lifetime that are going to 1477 01:40:53.560 --> 01:40:57.520 start the next big promotion and it goes away in months. That was a 1478 01:40:57.560 --> 01:40:59.840 big part of what took see hm Punk so long, I guess was that 1479 01:41:00.359 --> 01:41:03.239 he really was looking for the proof points that this actually it's going to retract 1480 01:41:03.239 --> 01:41:06.840 the kind of investment from TV and stuff that would make it have legs. 1481 01:41:08.439 --> 01:41:10.880 I sent Jericho at text in the afternoon of January first to hit me up. 1482 01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:12.840 I never heard back. He's a busy dude, probably on an a 1483 01:41:12.920 --> 01:41:15.279 tour orsome shit. I saw some stuff about this new modebut thing over the 1484 01:41:15.319 --> 01:41:17.279 next couple of weeks, I thought it was just another indie. I saw 1485 01:41:17.319 --> 01:41:20.399 some guys I see in all these other shows that Pentagon, dude, it 1486 01:41:20.439 --> 01:41:23.680 looked like they were bringing Jericho for a big show. That's cool. I 1487 01:41:23.680 --> 01:41:25.720 didn't think it was anything out of the ordinary. It seems like there's two 1488 01:41:25.800 --> 01:41:28.199 hundred companies and they all have three letters. I had too many my own 1489 01:41:28.279 --> 01:41:30.640 problems at hand to go sorting through all of them. For now, I 1490 01:41:30.720 --> 01:41:31.800 was just focused on getting to the finish line. It was a few weeks 1491 01:41:31.880 --> 01:41:39.119 later. I was riding the back seat with Headgg and bo that's a Curtis 1492 01:41:39.159 --> 01:41:43.039 Axel and Bow Dallas Yea on the way to Memphis for RAW. I had 1493 01:41:43.079 --> 01:41:46.039 to text at Jenna Loebe from tr I think that's a department at w B 1494 01:41:46.239 --> 01:41:48.640 about something, and scrolling through the jay's in my phone right next to her 1495 01:41:48.680 --> 01:41:53.479 name, was Jericho new Ay w Now, I remember the motherfucker changed his 1496 01:41:53.600 --> 01:41:56.720 number a few months back and I texted his old one. I texted Chris's 1497 01:41:56.760 --> 01:41:59.520 current number, the same message I had before. In About thirty seconds later, 1498 01:41:59.560 --> 01:42:01.279 he hit me back. We decided to talk to next daying Jericho called 1499 01:42:01.279 --> 01:42:04.720 me laws in my hotel room. Dread a dreading having to go to raw 1500 01:42:04.800 --> 01:42:09.760 that afternoon. This would be a conversation of the highest kfabe, we agreed 1501 01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:12.760 before I finally dropped my bombshell, along with three or four minutes of the 1502 01:42:12.840 --> 01:42:15.359 reasoning that had brought me here, the bombshell being that he wasn't going to 1503 01:42:15.399 --> 01:42:17.399 resign. I have expected Jericho to try to talk me off the ledge, 1504 01:42:17.399 --> 01:42:19.760 for all I knew he was gearing up for a return at the Royal Rumble. 1505 01:42:20.199 --> 01:42:23.399 Without hesitation, he just said, yeah, that's why I left, 1506 01:42:23.520 --> 01:42:26.760 before going to some of his own creative frustrations. I volleyed back some of 1507 01:42:26.800 --> 01:42:29.880 my own baggage, which he returned with more of his own. Conversation quickly 1508 01:42:30.000 --> 01:42:33.079 escalated into a full blown bitching about WWE session, the kind that can only 1509 01:42:33.119 --> 01:42:36.319 take place between two people who have worked there. We talked for almost an 1510 01:42:36.359 --> 01:42:40.800 hour before he mentioned this aw thing. He explained to me that this is 1511 01:42:40.840 --> 01:42:43.239 a real thing, and he signed a deal there. There's real money, 1512 01:42:43.359 --> 01:42:45.720 real backing. These people aren't stupid, and they're trying to do it right. 1513 01:42:45.920 --> 01:42:47.000 There's a guy named Tony Khan. They're going to make a go of 1514 01:42:47.079 --> 01:42:49.159 it. He says, this is what I'm doing for the next three years. 1515 01:42:49.359 --> 01:42:51.920 This is a lot to process. My initial reaction is I want to 1516 01:42:51.960 --> 01:42:54.920 be a part of it. I try to quell my excitement. But it's 1517 01:42:54.920 --> 01:42:57.840 just so nice to talk about new possibilities instead of how I'm going to butt 1518 01:42:57.880 --> 01:43:02.399 fuck a corpse. In SEG six to No SEG six, they talk about 1519 01:43:02.479 --> 01:43:08.439 segments is sag in ww backstage. That's disgusting what we're talking. What what's 1520 01:43:08.439 --> 01:43:12.239 happening in seg Oh, stop fucking We're gonna We're gonna talk. We gotta 1521 01:43:12.319 --> 01:43:18.199 listen, listen, listen, we gotta talk segate stop. And it's because 1522 01:43:18.239 --> 01:43:21.319 we've got we listen. We've got we've got we've got to we've gotta big. 1523 01:43:21.880 --> 01:43:25.680 I mean, I don't know what your problem is, but we've got 1524 01:43:25.760 --> 01:43:28.800 to use term we've got. We've got television. This is you have in 1525 01:43:28.840 --> 01:43:31.439 the wrestling program. This is television. You know, we're working a whole, 1526 01:43:31.680 --> 01:43:36.039 a whole different avenue of entertainment here, and so we need to talk 1527 01:43:36.039 --> 01:43:40.760 in terms of segs. We talk work in segs. We got to talk 1528 01:43:40.960 --> 01:43:44.680 in terms of ments, and we need needs to be talking in terms of 1529 01:43:44.680 --> 01:43:51.239 eggs because and and and catering. We're talking in terms of eggs and mints. 1530 01:43:54.039 --> 01:43:56.560 We have segs and ments for television. So what do we got for 1531 01:43:56.640 --> 01:44:00.760 sings? What do we got from sex three tonight? Oh? I don't 1532 01:44:00.760 --> 01:44:01.720 know. Let's sit and put our glasses down the edge of our nose and 1533 01:44:01.760 --> 01:44:06.640 talk about we were so so we we're talking now what's the flow here? 1534 01:44:06.960 --> 01:44:10.960 It's the overarching you know, we gotta think about how we're going to be 1535 01:44:11.079 --> 01:44:13.880 from point A to point and B. He's a producer on this, who's 1536 01:44:13.880 --> 01:44:18.760 agenting this one? Who's can I ask? So? Who who's agenting? 1537 01:44:19.039 --> 01:44:25.760 Uh? Seg five? Let's emphasize on the finished Can we understand that really, 1538 01:44:26.279 --> 01:44:30.239 you know, the flow of the animal of seg five needs to move 1539 01:44:30.399 --> 01:44:31.840 right into sake six. So I'm thinking about, is there's kind of a 1540 01:44:31.880 --> 01:44:34.319 disconnect here? We might be going to move this around? Oh yeah, 1541 01:44:34.399 --> 01:44:38.840 yeah, that's great. Really what we should do maybe really significant move, 1542 01:44:38.920 --> 01:44:41.479 you know, all right, we have all the segs on the board here, 1543 01:44:41.560 --> 01:44:45.760 and I'm just looking and I'm really wondering if, if, if SEG 1544 01:44:45.920 --> 01:44:49.000 two really should switch places with SEG thirteen. Maybe that's the problem that Vince, 1545 01:44:49.000 --> 01:44:55.079 she's had a little more SEG this it Maybe they's ast frustration in the 1546 01:44:55.159 --> 01:44:58.760 writing. Oh yeah, we're having fun, making fun here, pal, 1547 01:44:58.920 --> 01:45:00.479 but we're all there's a white bull board and we're all taking this very serious. 1548 01:45:00.560 --> 01:45:03.000 You know, really, what's what's the you know, look at the 1549 01:45:03.000 --> 01:45:05.640 size of this table we're standing said, we gotta we gotta think about you 1550 01:45:05.720 --> 01:45:10.039 know, you know, we're gonna think in terms of story, right, 1551 01:45:10.600 --> 01:45:13.600 you know, and where we're going what you know, we're just wrestling matches. 1552 01:45:13.960 --> 01:45:16.399 It's wrestling matches, you know. And they're talking like they're, you 1553 01:45:16.479 --> 01:45:19.319 know, creating a cure for cancer. We get, we get, we 1554 01:45:19.439 --> 01:45:23.760 get, you know again, we gotta get listen. This is just week 1555 01:45:23.840 --> 01:45:28.199 one, right, all right? One SEG one, Week one, SEG 1556 01:45:28.319 --> 01:45:36.680 one follow one, so gross segs. I just I can't Every time I 1557 01:45:36.720 --> 01:45:41.000 get a little sniff of like how they talk backstage at TV at WW. 1558 01:45:41.119 --> 01:45:43.399 I just want to fucking throw myself out of a window, and I'm sure 1559 01:45:43.439 --> 01:45:46.000 they wish I would and I won't. It's so cool. Just make sure 1560 01:45:46.039 --> 01:45:48.520 you finish in four minutes. And Vince wants to see a lot of brains. 1561 01:45:49.359 --> 01:45:53.039 Cody Rhodes is involved that. Oh, Cody Jericho asks if he can 1562 01:45:53.079 --> 01:45:56.119 have Cody call me. I agree, this remains top secret security clearance level 1563 01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:58.880 shit. Cody calls me as I'm pulling into the garage for TV. You 1564 01:45:58.960 --> 01:46:02.399 imagine this conversation happening Wow. While he's in the car at a WWTV. 1565 01:46:02.920 --> 01:46:05.960 I go to an empty staircase in the concourse and call back. Cody explains 1566 01:46:05.960 --> 01:46:09.560 to me what's happening with a W. I listen. There is much more 1567 01:46:09.560 --> 01:46:12.600 infrastructure in place than they're letting on. There's talk of network television. I'm 1568 01:46:12.640 --> 01:46:15.640 filled in on what exactly a W is? This guy Tony Kah Again, 1569 01:46:15.880 --> 01:46:18.279 it's mostly just a pleasant catchup conversation. There's only so much to talk about. 1570 01:46:18.399 --> 01:46:21.319 I still have almost four months left with WWW, and a W ain't 1571 01:46:21.319 --> 01:46:24.439 even gonna run a show till May. As it would turn out, twenty 1572 01:46:24.479 --> 01:46:30.119 five days after my WB contract expired. Where wait what MGM Vegas pretty fucking 1573 01:46:30.199 --> 01:46:36.279 interesting. Dams becomes John Moxley once again, and it's a big deal. 1574 01:46:36.319 --> 01:46:41.880 And again he turns out to be a valuable hand for a w because when 1575 01:46:41.920 --> 01:46:46.000 ship goes down with Punk, he's the guy they call interim champion there when 1576 01:46:46.039 --> 01:46:50.319 Punk first goes down to injury, and you know, the guy they call 1577 01:46:50.439 --> 01:46:54.840 when the pandemic hits and they need somebody to to carry the belt over the 1578 01:46:54.880 --> 01:46:58.680 summer, over the whole year and make TV interesting with no fans. And 1579 01:46:58.960 --> 01:47:01.399 hear he's doing it again as Punk disappears and he headlines of show and punks 1580 01:47:01.439 --> 01:47:04.439 Backyard of Chicago, and it feels okay, it doesn't feel like, you 1581 01:47:04.520 --> 01:47:09.199 know, I'll blow away pay per view. But if Moxley wasn't there, 1582 01:47:09.279 --> 01:47:14.039 they were really would have been scrounging for something. Yeah, So he beats 1583 01:47:14.119 --> 01:47:16.279 Jericho for the championship for every twenty ninth. This was in twenty twenty. 1584 01:47:17.760 --> 01:47:19.880 At the same time, he was a New Japan US champ, so he 1585 01:47:19.920 --> 01:47:24.039 took kind of the Cody thing where he went to New Japan as well as 1586 01:47:24.119 --> 01:47:27.319 every US and D that would take him. That was his thought process at 1587 01:47:27.399 --> 01:47:29.600 least, and then it turns out a W was actually more of a fuller 1588 01:47:29.640 --> 01:47:31.520 commitment, but he was already in New Japan and making his name there as 1589 01:47:31.560 --> 01:47:38.600 well. Defended the championship April fifteenth against Jake Hager MTY arena no holds barred 1590 01:47:39.079 --> 01:47:43.680 as he begins his pandemic era reign. He defended against Brody Lee, who 1591 01:47:43.720 --> 01:47:47.640 came in a double or nothing MPTY arena Jacques Jacques Hagar jack Hagar, yeah, 1592 01:47:48.399 --> 01:47:53.239 as some pronounced it. He beat Bride Page, fight for the Fallen 1593 01:47:53.359 --> 01:47:59.880 Darby Allen as well, feuded with m JF and it was ultimately well MJFB 1594 01:48:00.119 --> 01:48:04.000 him, and then he had a rivalry with Eddie Kingston, beating him in 1595 01:48:04.039 --> 01:48:11.520 September, beat Lance Archer in October, and at full gear he beat Kingston. 1596 01:48:12.199 --> 01:48:14.960 And then he had a feud with Kenny Omega, and it was at 1597 01:48:15.000 --> 01:48:17.359 Winter Is Coming December two of twenty and twenty where they shot the big angle 1598 01:48:17.479 --> 01:48:24.479 or Omega turned heel revealed the big plot, beat Moxley ending the rain starts 1599 01:48:24.520 --> 01:48:28.920 here at two hundred and seventy seven days Wow. And then he forms the 1600 01:48:29.239 --> 01:48:34.680 Blackpool Combat Club and that's the sort of brings in William regal To a W 1601 01:48:34.920 --> 01:48:40.880 and that's the iteration that we still see today. But one of the things 1602 01:48:41.000 --> 01:48:45.840 that's really really kind of cringey about this this show, or at least not 1603 01:48:45.000 --> 01:48:49.199 cringey, but you kind of go yis that's rough in retrospect. What Moxley 1604 01:48:49.239 --> 01:48:53.960 wins the belt in the main event and it grabs the microphone and he starts 1605 01:48:54.039 --> 01:48:58.680 talking about I need whiskey, started talking about to few beers needed whiskey. 1606 01:48:59.439 --> 01:49:05.000 That turned out to be a problem because he ended up getting so close to 1607 01:49:05.079 --> 01:49:12.720 the bottle during this run that any rehab for alcoholism, no shit, it 1608 01:49:12.840 --> 01:49:15.399 was a big deal. And wow, I knew that a problem with the 1609 01:49:15.479 --> 01:49:18.800 guy. Oh, I just I just right, he's gotta check. He's 1610 01:49:18.840 --> 01:49:21.960 checking himself and every all of his affairs are in order. It's checking day. 1611 01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:25.960 He's about to renee. He's got the car warming up in the driveway 1612 01:49:26.000 --> 01:49:28.560 and he's gonna go and he's gonna make this thing work. And just before 1613 01:49:28.600 --> 01:49:32.479 he steps out of the house, hold on Rene hold On, I say, 1614 01:49:32.520 --> 01:49:41.560 this is hello John for man, I knew this was gonna happen. 1615 01:49:41.640 --> 01:49:47.119 Pl I just I knew there was a problem. I knew you had demons 1616 01:49:48.439 --> 01:49:54.640 and uh, you know, all I can do is wish you the best. 1617 01:49:55.800 --> 01:49:59.239 I don't know if you deserve the best, but you know, we'll 1618 01:49:59.279 --> 01:50:02.760 see where you are the other side. But I can tell you one thing. 1619 01:50:05.159 --> 01:50:25.079 I'll be watching every single moment pal such good shit? Is it putting 1620 01:50:25.079 --> 01:50:30.600 Rene back on? Are the chances zero that people in Stanford, when news 1621 01:50:30.680 --> 01:50:34.359 came out that Moxley was entering rehab, said, under their breath into each 1622 01:50:34.399 --> 01:50:39.399 other. So he told you, told you the guy had to have a 1623 01:50:39.479 --> 01:50:42.800 problem to not agree with our creative genius, to not see the vision we 1624 01:50:42.920 --> 01:50:45.920 saw for him and his kid. I knew that, you know, obviously 1625 01:50:45.960 --> 01:50:47.960 there was something. You know, they're just you know, I've never seen 1626 01:50:48.119 --> 01:50:56.520 some you know, one individual so adamant that what we were providing was wrong 1627 01:50:56.840 --> 01:51:00.239 and really so bent on self destruction at the end of the day. Yeah, 1628 01:51:00.279 --> 01:51:00.479 and the end of the day. I mean, look at this. 1629 01:51:00.560 --> 01:51:05.960 This, here's a guy who prefers to injure himself. I mean, is 1630 01:51:06.039 --> 01:51:10.520 that is that a I mean, what is that right? Given the choice, 1631 01:51:10.560 --> 01:51:15.439 he will mutilate his body over over, you know, over a sense 1632 01:51:15.520 --> 01:51:27.239 of of of you know, humanity, what well, Vince, you know 1633 01:51:27.840 --> 01:51:32.520 human What I just picture Desire picture. Pritchard comes into the office. There's 1634 01:51:32.560 --> 01:51:38.279 some minor item of business, some like question about SmackDown Friday. They work 1635 01:51:38.319 --> 01:51:42.840 it out in like ten minutes and Vince, you know, after they work 1636 01:51:42.880 --> 01:51:45.000 it out, Vince picks up his phone and he starts to Texas. So 1637 01:51:45.119 --> 01:51:46.520 what else? Is what else going on? Bou first like, well, 1638 01:51:46.600 --> 01:51:50.760 you know, I don't know if you heard, but Ambrose, you hear 1639 01:51:50.800 --> 01:51:55.760 about him going into rehab? Did you hear this? I mean I thought 1640 01:51:55.880 --> 01:51:57.800 I heard it. I was like, what, you know, it starts 1641 01:51:57.840 --> 01:51:59.880 to make a little sense, it doesn't it. I mean, well, 1642 01:52:00.399 --> 01:52:03.520 you know, I I'll tell you the thing is between you know, between 1643 01:52:03.560 --> 01:52:09.039 you and me. I knew this was happening, and you know he didn't 1644 01:52:09.199 --> 01:52:11.680 a problem and he didn't want to share it. You know, there were 1645 01:52:11.800 --> 01:52:15.880 problems. I mean there were many times when you know, I would call 1646 01:52:15.000 --> 01:52:18.680 upon him, you know, in his hotel on the road, and you 1647 01:52:18.720 --> 01:52:23.920 know there was always something going on. You know. I know I knew 1648 01:52:23.960 --> 01:52:28.039 this. I knew this, but you know it's not my business, so 1649 01:52:28.159 --> 01:52:32.319 I kept my mouth shut. I certainly didn't in any way an attempt to 1650 01:52:32.920 --> 01:52:38.920 destroy him. I would never do that. It was done simply because you 1651 01:52:39.000 --> 01:52:42.399 know, what are we supposed to do as a human being? What am 1652 01:52:42.439 --> 01:52:45.720 I supposed to do? Fast forward a month later, or however long it 1653 01:52:45.840 --> 01:52:47.960 was, Moxley was in rehab and gets back to the house in that same 1654 01:52:48.039 --> 01:52:51.520 car that Renee was warming up to drive him. Returns back to the driveway 1655 01:52:51.560 --> 01:52:56.680 and they walk up the stairs and load into the house in Nevada wherever it 1656 01:52:56.800 --> 01:52:59.359 is, and set down the stuff. And he's a renewed man, and 1657 01:53:00.000 --> 01:53:02.319 he's he's grateful. He's grateful to be on the other side and to have 1658 01:53:02.399 --> 01:53:06.439 seen sunlight and to you know, realize that he can start off on a 1659 01:53:06.479 --> 01:53:11.520 new foot. When there's a knock at the door and it's a special delivery. 1660 01:53:12.479 --> 01:53:15.319 A lot of bouquets of flowers have come through in the past week as 1661 01:53:15.319 --> 01:53:20.680 folks knew that Monsley was wrapping up Inns. McMahon has sent a package as 1662 01:53:20.720 --> 01:53:27.520 well to Monsley to thank him for his his bout of courage here and it's 1663 01:53:29.199 --> 01:53:31.680 it's a handle of whiskey with a bouquet of flowers to thank him for his 1664 01:53:32.159 --> 01:53:38.760 for his progress. Are you serious? Oh I'm kidding, Come on, 1665 01:53:39.000 --> 01:53:42.159 man, Oh my god, I fact like this is the company that you 1666 01:53:42.239 --> 01:53:45.880 know, waited till see him Punk's wedding day to tell him he's fired. 1667 01:53:45.560 --> 01:53:49.760 Come on, I did want to see if you think it was real though? 1668 01:53:49.800 --> 01:53:55.880 That was fascinating. Oh so yeah, I listen. I wouldn't because 1669 01:53:56.000 --> 01:54:03.039 they're the fucking you know, they're the company that would you know? That's 1670 01:54:03.119 --> 01:54:09.640 right? Well, hey, we are the uh the world wide leader of 1671 01:54:10.800 --> 01:54:14.720 heard that is out of out of rehab. Hey, do me a favor 1672 01:54:15.600 --> 01:54:19.159 once you don't you have something sent to the house. What you know, 1673 01:54:19.279 --> 01:54:23.119 what do you think, convincent? Well, what i'd like, actually, 1674 01:54:23.119 --> 01:54:28.600 what i'd like to have happened is this break into the house? Bruce? 1675 01:54:28.640 --> 01:54:30.159 Do you remember who? We remember? One who we call to get the 1676 01:54:30.239 --> 01:54:34.119 beer truck for Steve Auston? Do you remember? See? What I'd like 1677 01:54:34.199 --> 01:54:41.680 to do is this You've seen You've seen that that home alone picture. You've 1678 01:54:41.680 --> 01:54:44.680 seen that that one with the kid his hands on his face. Yet the 1679 01:54:44.760 --> 01:54:50.800 hand of this you know me? So what I think is this. I 1680 01:54:50.880 --> 01:54:57.880 want to break into the house, all right. I want I want so 1681 01:54:58.000 --> 01:55:02.039 that when he opens the door, okay, when he opens the door of 1682 01:55:02.199 --> 01:55:13.319 his house, immediately a four gallon bucket of of of whiskey just pours down 1683 01:55:13.680 --> 01:55:16.880 on his head. Great shit, Pal, and can't help but get into 1684 01:55:16.920 --> 01:55:21.800 his mouth and he swallows and he relapses. No, he doesn't realize it's 1685 01:55:21.800 --> 01:55:25.720 just a joke. Up, it's just a joke. It's a joke. 1686 01:55:25.880 --> 01:55:28.520 But the relapse is the joke. That's the funny part, because then it's 1687 01:55:28.520 --> 01:55:30.079 like, oh my god, all this time he's going to go back. 1688 01:55:31.079 --> 01:55:33.600 It's like it's like taking a walk in your neighborhood and when you get to 1689 01:55:33.640 --> 01:55:35.680 the front door, you realizing shit on your shoe. You got shit. 1690 01:55:35.760 --> 01:55:40.640 It's like you're walking in the neighborhood. You're walking your neighborhood and you're like 1691 01:55:40.720 --> 01:55:42.760 walking around. All of a sudden you realize you have shit in your mouth, 1692 01:55:43.119 --> 01:55:48.720 Like, oh fucks, Oh goddamn time. Damn, that's good shit. 1693 01:55:49.039 --> 01:55:53.079 Nah, that's that's good shit, Pal, That's the kind of shit 1694 01:55:53.159 --> 01:55:55.680 we write about. And in barring that, as soon as he steps out 1695 01:55:55.680 --> 01:55:59.159 on his sports the next day, we have Steve Boston just spraying with a 1696 01:55:59.199 --> 01:56:00.640 hose of beer. If not, yeah, if he's not, If you're 1697 01:56:00.640 --> 01:56:04.399 not willing to, did you go through with our with our prank? What 1698 01:56:04.520 --> 01:56:10.159 we can do next is just is just kill him. Go back to that, 1699 01:56:10.640 --> 01:56:15.520 go back to the original plan and just and just assassinate him with a 1700 01:56:15.680 --> 01:56:21.520 rifle across across the street. Rifle with a scope owt st oswats you know, 1701 01:56:21.720 --> 01:56:29.119 getting the fucking book depository across the street from from Moxley. Moxley, 1702 01:56:29.640 --> 01:56:32.279 So yeah, so yeah, Vince handled him leaving for a w Well, 1703 01:56:32.399 --> 01:56:34.960 I think it's the take home. Yeah, that is correct. I got 1704 01:56:35.000 --> 01:56:40.039 bad. He did an interview at Cincinnati dot com his hometown uh once did 1705 01:56:40.159 --> 01:56:43.319 Moxley not too long ago, and was talking about how bad it got, 1706 01:56:44.279 --> 01:56:46.520 which I just couldn't help to think when he mentions boozing after winning the title, 1707 01:56:47.279 --> 01:56:49.079 and he says, quote, over a year ago, I was afraid 1708 01:56:49.119 --> 01:56:51.560 of dying of a seizure in the ring. I had that on my mind 1709 01:56:51.600 --> 01:56:55.439 every day. It was all messed up and going through an absolute personal hell 1710 01:56:55.520 --> 01:56:58.479 for a long time that nobody else even knew about. When you're scarred, 1711 01:56:58.760 --> 01:57:00.600 when you're scared for your actual life. To make the decision to go to 1712 01:57:00.680 --> 01:57:04.079 rehab and stuff was basically I had to basically assume I'm giving everything away. 1713 01:57:04.439 --> 01:57:06.760 I was like, Okay, I'm either going to live a long, happy 1714 01:57:06.800 --> 01:57:10.319 life and raise my kid and be a person. Or I can wrestle, 1715 01:57:10.520 --> 01:57:15.960 but I can't have both. Oh so let that process kick into gear here 1716 01:57:16.000 --> 01:57:19.560 at a Revolution twenty twenty. And before we get to Gabe and his rundown 1717 01:57:19.600 --> 01:57:24.640 of why he's put the show before your coach Yers and his personal hand that 1718 01:57:24.720 --> 01:57:29.600 he played in making a w Revolution twenty twenty possible out in Chicago received a 1719 01:57:29.640 --> 01:57:33.159 couple of letters to the lapsed Inbox boss as to this show and where it 1720 01:57:33.199 --> 01:57:36.399 stood with some of our listeners. Andrew wrote to us, and I'm going 1721 01:57:36.479 --> 01:57:42.319 to hand you the reins here play in a moment on his rundown of the 1722 01:57:42.359 --> 01:57:45.560 card. So let this be, you know, kind of like a fan 1723 01:57:45.680 --> 01:57:47.159 contribution to the deep dive that's about to come up a little bit of a 1724 01:57:47.800 --> 01:57:58.079 second perspective on the bouts of the night. Alrighty esteemed code chairman, very 1725 01:57:58.159 --> 01:58:02.000 long time listener, first time writer. I was in attendance at the first 1726 01:58:02.119 --> 01:58:10.359 aw Revolution. Getting there involved preposterous travel, gaming a major corporation for a 1727 01:58:10.439 --> 01:58:15.079 hotel and some flights several days in Chicago as a tourist, and listening to 1728 01:58:15.159 --> 01:58:19.840 the WCW World War three episode of that cast. I'm from Edmonton, Alberta, 1729 01:58:20.159 --> 01:58:29.960 Canada, Home of the Murderer. That's funny, of the Murderer. 1730 01:58:30.920 --> 01:58:34.439 In fact, my wife went to the same high school as blaisode all of 1731 01:58:34.479 --> 01:58:39.000 the fucking dark boxes. Man, this is actually getting weird. Yeah. 1732 01:58:39.359 --> 01:58:42.760 A few days before Christmas twenty nineteen, my wife and I went out for 1733 01:58:42.840 --> 01:58:45.399 dinner. During our meal, she told me of an upcoming business trip that 1734 01:58:45.520 --> 01:58:49.159 she had been organizing. She had to pick a major American city, a 1735 01:58:49.239 --> 01:58:54.760 hotel capable of hosting thirty people for meetings over two days, and how to 1736 01:58:54.840 --> 01:59:00.560 do it by the end of February. She chose Chicago the dates or February 1737 01:59:00.600 --> 01:59:03.680 twenty sixth and twenty seventh. She also had business in Lansing, Michigan on 1738 01:59:03.840 --> 01:59:09.880 March second. The company would cover her airfare, hotel, and accommodation for 1739 01:59:10.000 --> 01:59:13.920 most of that week in Chicago, giving her a three day weekend on the 1740 01:59:14.000 --> 01:59:16.920 company dime. Knowing that I had lived in Chicago for a summer in twenty 1741 01:59:17.000 --> 01:59:20.720 twelve and that I was a gigantic fan of the sport of Kings, she 1742 01:59:20.800 --> 01:59:28.680 had also arranged a separate flight for me to join her and acquired tickets to 1743 01:59:28.800 --> 01:59:33.960 Revolution Merry Christmas to me. The morning we left Edmonton to fly to Chicago, 1744 01:59:34.640 --> 01:59:40.880 COVID was becoming more and more of a going concern. Our flight to 1745 01:59:41.000 --> 01:59:47.439 Chicago connected through Minneapolis. Very good, I know, right, And when 1746 01:59:47.479 --> 01:59:50.920 we landed there, my wife and a co workers received the corporate email that 1747 01:59:51.039 --> 01:59:57.520 suspended all work travel with the loophole that all trips in progress were to be 1748 01:59:57.560 --> 02:00:02.239 completed. They had wiggled in just in time. When we arrived in Chicago, 1749 02:00:03.640 --> 02:00:05.840 my wife went out for My wife went out for dinner with the co 1750 02:00:05.960 --> 02:00:12.760 workers. Well, I walked around Chicago's River Riverwalk listening to your recounting of 1751 02:00:13.000 --> 02:00:17.399 WCW's World War Three pay per view. I spent the Thursday wandering about the 1752 02:00:17.520 --> 02:00:24.520 loop listening to the NJPWWW Super Show episode as well, which one. Nope, 1753 02:00:24.760 --> 02:00:29.000 I don't know, I need these specifics. I need specifics. Friday, 1754 02:00:29.159 --> 02:00:31.239 we spent the entire day at the Art Institute of Chicago, which was 1755 02:00:31.279 --> 02:00:36.520 overrun with wrestling fans. Made for God, that's something you don't expect every 1756 02:00:36.600 --> 02:00:45.039 day, Fucking wrestling fans and the Art Institute of Chicago. I mean it's 1757 02:00:45.079 --> 02:00:50.760 not the art of wrestling. Yeah, exactly, Fucking imagine see all all 1758 02:00:50.800 --> 02:01:00.159 I picture is I picture about fifty fifty guys that are extremely overweight black T 1759 02:01:00.359 --> 02:01:08.439 shirts. You know, the uh, the shorts that are like hugging you 1760 02:01:08.520 --> 02:01:11.560 know, you can see the under of their belly. Yep, because there's 1761 02:01:11.600 --> 02:01:17.159 the shorts are up so high and carrying around championship belts. So yeah, 1762 02:01:17.279 --> 02:01:21.560 nothing wrong with that, totally normally, I that's that's the way. Honestly, 1763 02:01:23.159 --> 02:01:25.880 whenever I go to an art museum, that's what I hope happens. 1764 02:01:26.279 --> 02:01:30.760 So I'm usually disappointed. So I'm sad that I missed this Art Institute of 1765 02:01:30.840 --> 02:01:33.439 Chicago. I remember from the Chicago for Star Cast one, which is a 1766 02:01:33.479 --> 02:01:38.039 great trip, was we went to the tele A Cafe, yes we did, 1767 02:01:38.159 --> 02:01:42.239 and I wanted an avocado, which you didn't know what it was, 1768 02:01:42.600 --> 02:01:44.880 but I don't know fire away from you, and I was like, hey, 1769 02:01:44.880 --> 02:01:46.680 can you get me an avocado? And you go into the new tele 1770 02:01:46.680 --> 02:01:51.239 A Cafe which is chocolate and ice cream, you go avocado, Yes, 1771 02:01:51.439 --> 02:01:56.199 get me an avocado. You want to avocado? My god, directormendous. 1772 02:01:57.800 --> 02:02:00.199 Are you gonna get chips with that too? We can give it the come 1773 02:02:00.239 --> 02:02:10.359 on, brother, Natellaha avocado with Natella. I don't know, man'll be 1774 02:02:10.359 --> 02:02:12.920 awful. It would be awful. I could work, I could work. 1775 02:02:13.079 --> 02:02:17.960 I don't know. Maybe like chocolate ducchin. Yeah, like zucchini. Bread's 1776 02:02:18.000 --> 02:02:21.439 good. You can work at big Goods. I think I don't be good. 1777 02:02:23.399 --> 02:02:26.359 My kid is so unted Antela right now. Oh it's delicious. That's 1778 02:02:26.399 --> 02:02:30.359 why I like it. I like it. Listen, I like it. 1779 02:02:30.479 --> 02:02:32.960 I'm not like crazy about it, but I mean, if there's a crapery 1780 02:02:34.720 --> 02:02:38.960 in like in a ten mile RADI in a ten mile radius, I'm going 1781 02:02:39.359 --> 02:02:44.439 banana, nutella, powdered sugar, occasionally almonds. Oh wow, wow, 1782 02:02:44.560 --> 02:02:47.840 look at that shaved almonds. I mean, listen, listen. I'm I'm 1783 02:02:47.880 --> 02:02:56.039 a fan of of of Nattella gelato. Sure, sure, I love the 1784 02:02:57.680 --> 02:03:04.039 you know my favorite My favorite two mixes of gelato are nutella and lemon. 1785 02:03:05.479 --> 02:03:09.279 Hazel nut and lemon. I like that. Good for you? Wait, 1786 02:03:10.239 --> 02:03:11.960 you know why? You know why I did? I did that. I 1787 02:03:12.000 --> 02:03:13.960 don't know if I ever told you this story, but one of the times 1788 02:03:14.000 --> 02:03:17.359 I went to Italy, I was like, someone said to me, you 1789 02:03:17.479 --> 02:03:23.600 can mix any flavors and they'll work. I was like, bullshit. Oh, 1790 02:03:23.680 --> 02:03:26.079 really, so you went for things you thought couldn't possibly Yeah, I 1791 02:03:26.520 --> 02:03:31.039 went for two things so far apart, I'm like ntella and lemon. No 1792 02:03:31.199 --> 02:03:33.880 way, no way, this is gonna work. And it's my favorite. 1793 02:03:33.920 --> 02:03:38.079 That's all. I honestly, if if if we if I go out for 1794 02:03:38.239 --> 02:03:42.720 gelato and it's not the same obviously in in in America, but you know 1795 02:03:42.880 --> 02:03:45.479 if even so, if I, if we're around and it may have those 1796 02:03:45.520 --> 02:03:47.720 two, that's always what I get. That's awesome, love it love obsessed 1797 02:03:48.159 --> 02:03:56.000 recently with struct Oh yeah, that's delicious. Oh Mike Jesus. But in 1798 02:03:56.119 --> 02:04:01.560 that vein I also had essence of essence of Italian pretty much. Yeah. 1799 02:04:01.560 --> 02:04:04.960 I mean they actually do that. They actually make those sounds at the end 1800 02:04:05.000 --> 02:04:11.760 of every word. It's true. Can't caramelized fig with banana gelot oh oh 1801 02:04:12.199 --> 02:04:15.520 shit as a home run. Shit yep, that sounds money yep. So 1802 02:04:15.720 --> 02:04:18.960 to your point about like they couldn't work together, that was pretty much the 1803 02:04:19.000 --> 02:04:20.960 same reason I did that. And I was like, man, I must 1804 02:04:21.000 --> 02:04:27.760 stand back and acknowledge Gelati of Ye Gilattia. I think it is Gildi of 1805 02:04:27.880 --> 02:04:30.920 Rome, just tremendous. Let's go, let's get gelatto. Why do people 1806 02:04:30.920 --> 02:04:33.479 pretend glatto wasn't more delicious than ice cream? I'll never know. I know, 1807 02:04:33.760 --> 02:04:35.960 I know. Now listen and to me, listen to this. I 1808 02:04:36.039 --> 02:04:40.239 want to say this. Okay, for me, gelato is very much like 1809 02:04:40.359 --> 02:04:47.600 in an outbreaker. Overall, overall it is superior. But I don't want 1810 02:04:47.600 --> 02:04:50.720 it all the time, got it? I don't want it all the time. 1811 02:04:51.079 --> 02:04:55.800 I want it, you know, I don't want to abuse the privilege 1812 02:04:55.800 --> 02:04:59.640 you and ice cream all the time. Yes, yes, yes, I'm 1813 02:04:59.640 --> 02:05:04.159 willing to take the cheaper thing. You know. Very interesting because like because 1814 02:05:04.159 --> 02:05:11.920 because because if I have, if you have the superior thing on a day, 1815 02:05:12.000 --> 02:05:16.640 you're kind of not. It's like it's just it's like having a delicacy 1816 02:05:16.800 --> 02:05:18.840 every day. Yeah, yeah, it does it. It's you know, 1817 02:05:21.000 --> 02:05:27.000 because it's true you have to be in a mind to have the superior the 1818 02:05:27.079 --> 02:05:31.119 superior thing special occasion. We're going all out, yes, yes, you 1819 02:05:31.199 --> 02:05:35.000 know. Anyway, he said something about a lot. Did he even know 1820 02:05:35.079 --> 02:05:43.760 I said something talking about because it's not all about food. Uh, it's 1821 02:05:43.840 --> 02:05:48.039 fairly jarring. Seeing Warhol's Marilyn Monroe's piece next to someone decked out and wrestling 1822 02:05:48.159 --> 02:05:55.680 merch as someone as somehow the painting is more real. Saturday night, we 1823 02:05:55.760 --> 02:05:59.800 arrived about twenty minutes before doors open. I now must raise the point that 1824 02:05:59.840 --> 02:06:02.399 my wife, the hero of the story, the actual saint, has never 1825 02:06:03.640 --> 02:06:23.199 been to a wrestling show before. Like a typical well, your relationship is 1826 02:06:23.239 --> 02:06:30.960 about to be put to the test, exactly exactly. The crowd gathered around 1827 02:06:31.000 --> 02:06:33.800 the main door to the to the Now Center. That's what it's called the 1828 02:06:33.880 --> 02:06:38.359 Now Center. At the time it was called the wind Trust Arena. But 1829 02:06:40.000 --> 02:06:44.439 I don't know. Que's up waits patiently in line, and when the doors 1830 02:06:44.479 --> 02:06:47.880 open, we all move inside an organized manner. My wife is floored at 1831 02:06:47.920 --> 02:06:51.560 the civility, as she's used to dealing with drunk, belligerent, angry hockey 1832 02:06:51.600 --> 02:06:56.920 fans. We had decent seats Row ten opposite the stage. The wristbands were 1833 02:06:57.479 --> 02:07:00.359 kind of weird. Eventually I forgot A was wearing it at all in the 1834 02:07:00.439 --> 02:07:03.279 building. He didn't look all that special. And I do not know how 1835 02:07:03.319 --> 02:07:06.960 to trans how it translated to TV, as I have never seen the tape 1836 02:07:06.960 --> 02:07:11.560 of the show. We got a dark match of how many minute he both 1837 02:07:11.600 --> 02:07:16.960 seen the tape of the show either. I don't think there's only there even 1838 02:07:17.079 --> 02:07:19.600 is a tape of the show, of this show. No, they do. 1839 02:07:19.760 --> 02:07:24.239 They come out with DVDs. It's not a tape, that's true, 1840 02:07:24.439 --> 02:07:28.880 but a w is like they still insist on putting their shows out on DVD. 1841 02:07:29.640 --> 02:07:31.840 That's nice. Yeah, it's not tape. It's no. He's mistaken. 1842 02:07:31.840 --> 02:07:33.800 I hope he's remembering the right show. I think he is, because 1843 02:07:33.880 --> 02:07:38.560 let me look at the lineup he references here he's talking about. He says 1844 02:07:38.600 --> 02:07:40.520 there is, he says there is a tape. He says there is. 1845 02:07:40.600 --> 02:07:42.880 He's just never seen it. I'm talking about it. I'm talking about calling 1846 02:07:42.880 --> 02:07:45.960 it the now Arena, the now Arena you saw all in Its used to 1847 02:07:45.000 --> 02:07:48.920 be the Seer Center and half in the States. Oh but wind trust As. 1848 02:07:48.960 --> 02:07:51.000 We'll talk to Gabe about into tail here in a moment. It's in 1849 02:07:51.039 --> 02:07:56.640 the McCormick Square part of of the Chicago. I think it's south side, 1850 02:07:56.680 --> 02:07:59.479 it's not. That's not the same building. So he might have. He 1851 02:07:59.600 --> 02:08:01.079 might have he was in the Sear Center Now Arena, but he was and 1852 02:08:01.159 --> 02:08:07.039 he was in a different rate. Okay, we got a dark match of 1853 02:08:07.119 --> 02:08:11.159 a women's tag between Yuka and Rijo against Britt Baker and I can't remember who. 1854 02:08:13.159 --> 02:08:18.119 We also had some show okay. We also had some pre show nonsense 1855 02:08:18.199 --> 02:08:24.239 with SCU and the Dark Order, which featured the aw debut of Cult Cabana. 1856 02:08:24.359 --> 02:08:28.039 As for the main show, the opener was fine. Dustin was okay 1857 02:08:28.039 --> 02:08:31.319 at getting the crowd going, but otherwise it would have been dead. Darby 1858 02:08:31.359 --> 02:08:33.600 and Sammy was a lot of fun. My wife, who knew nothing of 1859 02:08:33.680 --> 02:08:37.000 any storylines or wrestling for that matter. I thought it was the best match 1860 02:08:37.039 --> 02:08:39.000 of the night. I was really surprised when the Elite match came up third. 1861 02:08:39.399 --> 02:08:43.960 It was fan fucking tastic. The golden trigger on Kenny into the kick 1862 02:08:45.560 --> 02:08:48.600 out at one. Yeah, that whole thing. I don't know. Do 1863 02:08:48.640 --> 02:08:52.000 I want to give away things? Not yet, but go ahead, because 1864 02:08:52.760 --> 02:08:56.239 he breaks down the matches. There pretty much a lot in the email, 1865 02:08:58.399 --> 02:09:01.119 right you mean read through everything he said? Right? Yeah, I think 1866 02:09:01.119 --> 02:09:07.279 that's fine. Yeah, I just don't add commentary. A revulsion that the 1867 02:09:07.359 --> 02:09:11.039 bucks would go there, following uh, following, followed by a shout of 1868 02:09:11.119 --> 02:09:15.800 joy when Kenny kicked out. Nobody gave a fuck about the women's match, 1869 02:09:15.920 --> 02:09:18.520 says this is the best tag match over in the US. I can introduce 1870 02:09:18.560 --> 02:09:24.079 you to one woman who thinks Dustin versus Jake Hager is better on this show. 1871 02:09:24.840 --> 02:09:31.319 That's amazing. Uh Cody, No, no, she said that it 1872 02:09:31.479 --> 02:09:35.079 was Sammy and Darby that was better. Oh, pardon me, all right, 1873 02:09:35.199 --> 02:09:39.600 just the same. Yeah, so no different if it was Dustin, 1874 02:09:41.159 --> 02:09:43.800 Oh, it totally would have been. It totally would have been Cody and 1875 02:09:43.880 --> 02:09:46.760 MJF was really really fun. Nobody could hear Cody's entrance music, which angered 1876 02:09:48.119 --> 02:09:50.039 some of the people in my section. I later found out nobody could hear 1877 02:09:50.039 --> 02:09:54.399 it because the performance was fucking terrible. Anyway, Yes, more on that. 1878 02:09:54.319 --> 02:09:56.800 Yeah, this is not a song that benefits from having the original artist 1879 02:09:56.880 --> 02:10:01.439 play it out thought. Yeah. No. As for the neck tattoo, 1880 02:10:01.439 --> 02:10:03.640 which made Oh this was the debut of the neck tattoo, I didn't really 1881 02:10:03.720 --> 02:10:05.199 realize that it was. Yes, that's what he's saying. Is so the 1882 02:10:05.239 --> 02:10:07.640 next tattoo WHI made his debute to Night, I thought he was wearing some 1883 02:10:07.800 --> 02:10:11.840 sort of rub on decal or something. I wasn't watching the in house video 1884 02:10:11.880 --> 02:10:15.840 screen, so it didn't occur to me that it was a a tattoo or 1885 02:10:15.920 --> 02:10:18.279 be so fucking big. The match was exactly what it had to be, 1886 02:10:18.399 --> 02:10:22.399 though MJF is fantastic. I saw Cody and Brandy the next morning as we 1887 02:10:22.439 --> 02:10:26.439 were on the same flight out of Chicago. Cody was sitting on the aisle 1888 02:10:26.479 --> 02:10:28.760 seat in first class, so the entire plane had to walk past him during 1889 02:10:28.840 --> 02:10:33.199 boarding. He had an enormous gray hoodie on hood up and looked completely and 1890 02:10:33.359 --> 02:10:39.359 totally exhausted. I had about thirty seconds standing next to him as I waited 1891 02:10:39.399 --> 02:10:41.439 it for the line to move, and told him that he did a really 1892 02:10:41.520 --> 02:10:43.560 good job the night before. He looked up, said, ah, thanks 1893 02:10:43.640 --> 02:10:46.199 man, I appreciate that. Then I went to the back of the plane 1894 02:10:46.239 --> 02:10:50.640 with the rest of the cattle. I noticed during the brief interaction of Gigantic 1895 02:10:50.720 --> 02:10:54.159 the tattoo was and how even the hoodie can't fully conceal it. Good guy, 1896 02:10:54.239 --> 02:10:58.279 that Cody Rose. I wonder if he'll make it one day. No, 1897 02:10:58.479 --> 02:11:03.640 so far and not so good. Orange Cassidy and Pack was infinite fun. 1898 02:11:03.800 --> 02:11:07.039 I had never seen Cassidy before and was blown away by the stick. 1899 02:11:07.399 --> 02:11:11.479 Everyone loved it and if it wasn't for the elite civil war earlier in the 1900 02:11:11.520 --> 02:11:15.840 evening, it would have been the best thing on the show Jericho and Max 1901 02:11:16.000 --> 02:11:18.800 was a bit of a letdown. Jericho wasn't in the best shape, and 1902 02:11:18.880 --> 02:11:22.560 considering he and The Murderer where my two favorites as a kid, it was 1903 02:11:22.600 --> 02:11:26.880 a bit jarring. I just saw Jericho at a w's Edmonton show last month 1904 02:11:26.920 --> 02:11:31.600 and he looks much better. See. I liked Jericho as pudgy. I 1905 02:11:31.640 --> 02:11:33.399 think it works. I loved that. I thought it was really fun. 1906 02:11:33.920 --> 02:11:39.680 He was the pain maker psychopath. Yeah, and especially with his sunken in 1907 02:11:39.840 --> 02:11:43.880 chest. Yeah, he's still all that. I don't know what he's such 1908 02:11:43.880 --> 02:11:48.279 as gear. I know what gear he's got access to. But he his 1909 02:11:48.399 --> 02:11:52.600 weight has fluctuated so much in aw it's like someone someone makes fun of his 1910 02:11:52.680 --> 02:11:54.760 physique and the next week he comes out and he's like thirty pounds lighter, 1911 02:11:54.920 --> 02:11:58.119 and then he goes he gets heavy again. It's it's like it's almost ridiculous. 1912 02:11:58.760 --> 02:12:01.479 Yeah. Yeah, if he's on nozem pic or what it is, 1913 02:12:03.039 --> 02:12:05.000 Yeah, maybe, Well it doesn't make it do that though, that's true. 1914 02:12:05.039 --> 02:12:07.359 It doesn't make you go back and forth and it's so brand new. 1915 02:12:07.680 --> 02:12:18.119 It's just the time it you know it, Uh, your appetite control. 1916 02:12:18.560 --> 02:12:22.000 Yeah, brawling in the crowd was all fining good. Oh no, he 1917 02:12:22.079 --> 02:12:26.520 said, Jericho's choir didn't translate well to those of us in the building, 1918 02:12:26.840 --> 02:12:30.319 and people just wanted to Judas on the PM. I loved that choir. 1919 02:12:30.479 --> 02:12:33.880 That the greatest it was. I'm surprised that. Yeah, we'll talk. 1920 02:12:33.880 --> 02:12:37.880 I guess I'll talk a little bit about it. But people like didn't like 1921 02:12:37.039 --> 02:12:41.319 it. There was like I don't remember seeing this on Twitter at the time, 1922 02:12:41.359 --> 02:12:43.000 but going back, there's a lot of negativity around the performance. And 1923 02:12:43.079 --> 02:12:46.279 it turns out the the woman whose front and center had like someone accused her 1924 02:12:46.319 --> 02:12:50.640 of sexual assault on Twitter, so we can't like her ever, But apparently 1925 02:12:50.840 --> 02:12:54.640 I'm not saying that from my own voice. Wait, she was accused of 1926 02:12:54.680 --> 02:12:56.760 sexual assault. She was accused. Yes, she was accused back when, 1927 02:12:56.840 --> 02:13:01.000 like, you know, and these have gone away for the most part, 1928 02:13:01.039 --> 02:13:03.079 I feel like, but when people would say, as soon as someone gets 1929 02:13:03.079 --> 02:13:07.680 in the spotlight blank assaulted me on this date, you know, and it's 1930 02:13:07.720 --> 02:13:11.800 like you have to believe them and get from there. But uh yeah, 1931 02:13:11.279 --> 02:13:13.880 yeah, so keep that in mind. I'm all about that. But yeah, 1932 02:13:15.319 --> 02:13:18.319 I'm okay with I take I file that under wrestling fans can't have nice 1933 02:13:18.359 --> 02:13:20.960 things. As soon as you find something that you feel like was kind of 1934 02:13:20.960 --> 02:13:22.600 transcendent and wrestling something I was like, Wow, that was really good for 1935 02:13:22.720 --> 02:13:26.960 wrestling. That was great, and give it. Give it like four weeks 1936 02:13:26.000 --> 02:13:31.399 and you'll realize that. Yeah. No, it's completely creetness in right act 1937 02:13:31.479 --> 02:13:33.960 involved. Yeah, there's some right, there's some bad, bad thing. 1938 02:13:35.039 --> 02:13:39.159 It happened before or as a result of it. It's like they injected a 1939 02:13:39.319 --> 02:13:43.439 ten year old with a with a syringe of heroin or something like that. 1940 02:13:43.760 --> 02:13:46.439 Yeah, it's it's like wrestling needs oneies ultimate example. You know, I 1941 02:13:46.560 --> 02:13:50.439 can't. I thought leaving that show, I had such a buzz. I 1942 02:13:50.520 --> 02:13:54.279 felt so great about being a wrestling fan, and just give it. Yeah, 1943 02:13:54.439 --> 02:13:56.319 matter of ten years, three years, three years, three years, 1944 02:13:58.000 --> 02:14:01.319 you just needed three years, come on, three years, you're right, 1945 02:14:03.359 --> 02:14:07.319 and WrestleMania twenty three years. It took. Wrestling fans can't have nice things. 1946 02:14:07.760 --> 02:14:11.319 It's not a business that attracts people that leave at the end of the 1947 02:14:11.479 --> 02:14:16.680 day a on balanced positive impact on the people. Nope, Nope, we're 1948 02:14:16.720 --> 02:14:20.640 talking about we're talking about the lowest common denominator of individuals, that's correct, 1949 02:14:20.680 --> 02:14:26.159 and those who are exceptions aren't voluminous enough to offset those who are the rule 1950 02:14:26.279 --> 02:14:30.920 No, no, nope, no get out and they get out too early 1951 02:14:31.000 --> 02:14:35.239 anyway to offset the Yeah, and just remember, wrestlers are all this is 1952 02:14:35.279 --> 02:14:41.119 the thing. Wrestlers are people who had no direction. Yes, and honestly, 1953 02:14:41.159 --> 02:14:43.680 if you want to become a wrestler, you have no direction, or 1954 02:14:43.760 --> 02:14:46.800 you thought you had one and you abandoned it and here you are. Yep, 1955 02:14:46.279 --> 02:14:48.960 you know, hey, you could be a wrestler. How many times 1956 02:14:50.000 --> 02:14:54.680 we heard that? Fucking that phrase passed around for you know, that's how 1957 02:14:54.720 --> 02:14:56.319 guys going in the business totally, especially look at the size. You know, 1958 02:14:56.319 --> 02:14:58.239 I know, guy's a wrestler. You you should, you should get 1959 02:14:58.239 --> 02:15:03.720 involved in you know. That's what it is. It's always that, Oh, 1960 02:15:03.800 --> 02:15:05.600 you could be, you could be, you could be. I was 1961 02:15:05.640 --> 02:15:07.319 a longshoreman. I was working the docks, I was loading trucks. I 1962 02:15:07.439 --> 02:15:11.760 was Sammy gabarus Is, I was working at subway. I have to hear 1963 02:15:11.840 --> 02:15:15.319 one more time, this kidden looking subway. I'm gonna fucking it's working a 1964 02:15:15.359 --> 02:15:20.520 subway and shove a foot long down my face for the second time today. 1965 02:15:20.039 --> 02:15:24.640 Can't stand his face either. He's got it he's got a kiss around him, 1966 02:15:24.640 --> 02:15:28.319 Disney his face, you know, his fucking like droopy eyes and ship. 1967 02:15:28.479 --> 02:15:30.560 There was only five years ago I was working at the Subway. Oh, 1968 02:15:30.720 --> 02:15:31.920 I can't wait to see your main event. Buddy. Hey, you 1969 02:15:33.000 --> 02:15:35.079 know what, how about in five minutes, I throw you in front of 1970 02:15:35.119 --> 02:15:43.399 the Subway Banana peppers with that TLC fucking extravaganza, sucking toss you over there 1971 02:15:45.600 --> 02:15:50.159 Subway in a pole match, fucking Sammy, guava and cheese and panada. 1972 02:15:50.239 --> 02:15:58.439 Here, idiot, he used to work at Subway. No, he's coming 1973 02:15:58.479 --> 02:16:05.159 off. Oh, I used to work it sold way. I still do 1974 02:16:05.399 --> 02:16:11.399 occasionally get a weekend shift. But enough from the island of misfit toys. 1975 02:16:15.079 --> 02:16:22.920 Oh it's coming, boss, it is. Can't come soon enough. Get 1976 02:16:22.960 --> 02:16:26.239 me some fun far away as far as the calendar. Oh, I know 1977 02:16:26.439 --> 02:16:33.559 right, I love it. I love it? Uh, Jack, Jack 1978 02:16:33.680 --> 02:16:35.559 is quite in Terrance. Brawling in the crowd is all fine and good, 1979 02:16:35.600 --> 02:16:39.200 but when you're in said crowd and the brawl is six sections away, it 1980 02:16:39.280 --> 02:16:41.879 loses most of its impact. I agree. If you're live, listen, 1981 02:16:43.040 --> 02:16:46.079 if you're live and they brawl in the crowd, it sucks. It's totally 1982 02:16:46.719 --> 02:16:50.440 always sucks. I mean, I think of WrestleMania thirty five when we were 1983 02:16:50.520 --> 02:16:52.280 there, It's like anything happened in the crowd, and we were up high 1984 02:16:52.479 --> 02:16:56.719 too, we were up fucking high. It still sucks. I must be 1985 02:16:56.319 --> 02:17:01.200 something. Did the wrestlers tell themselves about why crowd brawling is a positive? 1986 02:17:01.440 --> 02:17:05.120 Maybe there's some element of time killing it. I don't know what it is. 1987 02:17:05.159 --> 02:17:07.920 Well, we're thinking about television. Really it's not really translates well to 1988 02:17:07.000 --> 02:17:13.200 television, and you know, with the weaponry and the different contextual you know, 1989 02:17:13.319 --> 02:17:18.360 the miss on sound is what we're looking for. Scenic scenic opportunity, 1990 02:17:18.520 --> 02:17:22.879 scenic opportunity. I call for a moratorium. Let's see who's standing at the 1991 02:17:22.000 --> 02:17:28.200 end without weak ass crutch crowd brawling in their arsenal. By the time the 1992 02:17:28.280 --> 02:17:31.639 match got back in the ring and the drunks in my section had turned on 1993 02:17:31.680 --> 02:17:35.239 the match, and we're trying to start a fuck Goldberg chant. That's funny. 1994 02:17:35.559 --> 02:17:37.559 It put a dower on what was mostly a fantastic show. The day 1995 02:17:37.600 --> 02:17:43.479 after I flew home on an insane tinerary Chicago, Atlanta, Toronto, Edmonton. 1996 02:17:43.719 --> 02:17:46.760 Wow left Chicago at noon Central time. Did get to see Cody on 1997 02:17:46.799 --> 02:17:56.440 the area. You got home at eleven thirty mountain time, A twelve plus 1998 02:17:56.600 --> 02:18:00.360 hour travel day, a four airport grand tour isn't what you want to be 1999 02:18:00.440 --> 02:18:03.840 doing. In the very early days of the pandemic, clearing Canadian customs was 2000 02:18:05.040 --> 02:18:09.760 interesting. I was asked if I had traveled to Wuhan or anywhere else and 2001 02:18:09.920 --> 02:18:13.000 mainland child, that's all they wanted to know. Back in February. Yep, 2002 02:18:13.399 --> 02:18:16.840 yep, did you go to Wuhan? Uh? What? Yep? 2003 02:18:16.920 --> 02:18:26.479 He went? I saw It's right now this guy is saying he didn't know 2004 02:18:26.479 --> 02:18:28.680 it, doesn't know what Wuhan is. You could bring him in. Let's 2005 02:18:28.719 --> 02:18:31.399 le's have him padded down. I don't believe him. Who hasn't heard of 2006 02:18:31.440 --> 02:18:39.040 Wuhan? You Wuhan? Excuse me? You heard me. I didn't take 2007 02:18:39.079 --> 02:18:41.440 this guy. He's fucking up. Every time someone threw a chop last night, 2008 02:18:41.479 --> 02:18:43.639 they all said woo and it was with the hand. That's true, 2009 02:18:43.799 --> 02:18:50.959 that's true. Did you imagine you do Wohan go? Who? Yep? 2010 02:18:52.079 --> 02:18:58.319 These all these fuckers they're hanners. Remember that? Is that a cruise the 2011 02:18:58.559 --> 02:19:01.079 month before the law down And all they wanted to know was had you been 2012 02:19:01.120 --> 02:19:05.760 to China. Who's been to China? They thought they thought that that was 2013 02:19:05.879 --> 02:19:09.159 the only place people were gonna have COVID amazing. Yep, they told themselves 2014 02:19:09.239 --> 02:19:11.600 that for a little wife. Oh, they totally buy themselves like six more 2015 02:19:11.680 --> 02:19:18.079 weeks. Oh man. The moment, the moment that like, uh, 2016 02:19:18.920 --> 02:19:20.920 you know, I forget I remember. It was like it wasn't it like 2017 02:19:22.079 --> 02:19:26.600 West Coast isolated for like for like a moment, and then all of a 2018 02:19:26.639 --> 02:19:31.680 sudden and in the moment they were started to be like a case on the 2019 02:19:31.760 --> 02:19:33.479 East Coast. It was like a fuck it over his totally we're done. 2020 02:19:33.520 --> 02:19:37.639 It's totally over. We're done. Remember they had the cruise ship in New 2021 02:19:37.719 --> 02:19:39.719 York. Cuomo was like trying to become a hero, and yeah, I 2022 02:19:39.760 --> 02:19:43.200 put everyone on a ship and isolated he Remember remember when Cuomo was a hero. 2023 02:19:43.399 --> 02:19:50.200 Remember those things like God talk about the Ultimate Jesus Christ, everyone who, 2024 02:19:50.479 --> 02:19:54.639 everyone who became a hero during that time of lockdown. It's like a 2025 02:19:54.760 --> 02:20:00.440 total it's been totally disgraced. Yeah yeah, yeah, because they're because there's 2026 02:20:00.440 --> 02:20:03.920 no perfect one person you know that that's not remembered fondly for what they did 2027 02:20:05.040 --> 02:20:09.239 during that time period. Ultimately, they're perverts. That's a big problem. 2028 02:20:09.239 --> 02:20:11.200 That's what it comes down to. That's what it comes down to. Anybody 2029 02:20:11.239 --> 02:20:16.719 who's heroic to the masses is a pervert to one. That's a pretty fucking 2030 02:20:16.760 --> 02:20:20.319 profound statement, my friend. It's hard to become a hero without doing something 2031 02:20:20.399 --> 02:20:24.639 perverse along the way. Yep, yep, you're not. You're not. 2032 02:20:24.719 --> 02:20:28.559 Only you realize that as as an individual now you're not allowed to make mistakes. 2033 02:20:28.319 --> 02:20:31.920 Well no, I mean you're not. That's that's absolutely true. Right, 2034 02:20:31.120 --> 02:20:35.639 Well, you know you're allowed to make them. No, but you're 2035 02:20:35.840 --> 02:20:39.440 not allowed to decide for those mistakes. Not if you want to live a 2036 02:20:39.479 --> 02:20:46.680 normal life. No, you cannot make mistakes, nobody. It makes for 2037 02:20:46.879 --> 02:20:50.680 a fun like Twitter cause for the week. No, you have no chance. 2038 02:20:50.520 --> 02:20:58.520 You have no chance of overcoming the absolute uh void that needs to be 2039 02:20:58.600 --> 02:21:03.559 filled. Yeah, you know that, the hollow nature of that up, 2040 02:21:03.920 --> 02:21:09.639 that insatiable beast that is, you know, they need to have something to 2041 02:21:09.680 --> 02:21:13.399 talk about for a week and meme about and have one opinion about, and 2042 02:21:13.399 --> 02:21:16.959 then a different opinion about, and then a different you know, like shift 2043 02:21:16.959 --> 02:21:20.799 your opinion around, so you're always being contrarian. It's great we'ren't a great 2044 02:21:20.840 --> 02:21:24.520 time. Basically, It's true, it's getting a little better, but that 2045 02:21:24.719 --> 02:21:26.559 was during pandemics. I no one had anything to do, and so you 2046 02:21:26.719 --> 02:21:31.120 better hope it wasn't your fucking turn. You better hope it wasn't my fucking 2047 02:21:31.239 --> 02:21:35.600 turn that I was so I was so one thing that that that I'll never 2048 02:21:35.680 --> 02:21:41.680 forget was all the people, you know, because at the time, you 2049 02:21:41.760 --> 02:21:46.639 know, I was still working at the garden, and so I loved I 2050 02:21:46.879 --> 02:21:50.879 loved all these people who were like, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, 2051 02:21:50.879 --> 02:21:52.000 we're gonna get you know, we're back like two weeks. I'm like, 2052 02:21:52.879 --> 02:21:56.360 you're all fucking delusional. They were telling on themselves, you know, 2053 02:21:56.399 --> 02:22:00.399 they were like, you're fucking delusional. Their hope, their hopes and dams 2054 02:22:00.600 --> 02:22:05.559 were laid bare, and how aggressive their timetable was. When when something and 2055 02:22:05.639 --> 02:22:11.360 I was like, you know, when something like this happens and so many 2056 02:22:11.520 --> 02:22:18.959 people get infected so fast that the fucking world shuts down, no no, 2057 02:22:20.040 --> 02:22:22.639 no, no, new, new, new, new new. This is 2058 02:22:22.719 --> 02:22:28.760 going to last a long, long long time. I remember the earliest days, 2059 02:22:28.840 --> 02:22:31.639 people were saying it's gonna take eighteen months to see the other side of 2060 02:22:31.719 --> 02:22:35.079 this, and people were like, that is absolutely ridiculous. I cannot countenance 2061 02:22:35.200 --> 02:22:39.239 that. That's crazy. The vaccine is already in development, et cetera. 2062 02:22:39.639 --> 02:22:46.600 Talk about eighteen months. Yeah, totally right in terms of like imustoration of 2063 02:22:46.680 --> 02:22:50.840 coal, of course, you know, because like that's because it takes a 2064 02:22:50.000 --> 02:22:56.280 year, even fast track takes a year for a fucking you know, vaccine 2065 02:22:56.319 --> 02:23:01.559 to to to get all done. This is usually I mean, yeah, 2066 02:23:01.520 --> 02:23:05.479 it's less about that and more just about when people decide, well, it's 2067 02:23:05.520 --> 02:23:11.479 now time to see what happens if we stop taking precautions, and that no 2068 02:23:11.719 --> 02:23:13.840 telling when that's going to be. It turned out in this case to be 2069 02:23:13.959 --> 02:23:18.040 when fully vaccinated people were getting infected with like nothing, and that was like, 2070 02:23:18.040 --> 02:23:20.159 all right, fuck it. The summer of twenty twenty one, I'll 2071 02:23:20.200 --> 02:23:24.879 never forget it, and by the fall with Punk coming in full building in 2072 02:23:24.959 --> 02:23:28.920 September for his absolutely absolute no one cared after that. Now now it's like 2073 02:23:30.040 --> 02:23:31.639 any stranger, let's just get sucking. Hey, Hey, how's it going. 2074 02:23:33.639 --> 02:23:41.719 Yeah, yeah, let me lick your ball doesn't spread on surfaces, 2075 02:23:41.959 --> 02:23:52.879 surfaces like your taint? Yes, anyway, email whan Uhhan challenge. Two 2076 02:23:52.920 --> 02:23:56.959 days later, my wife was asked have you been to Maitland, China, 2077 02:23:56.399 --> 02:24:03.600 Ran or anywhere in Iran and Lombardi or anywhere in Italy hit International? Yeah, 2078 02:24:03.079 --> 02:24:07.559 international flights were a thing of the past within two weeks. Thanks for 2079 02:24:07.600 --> 02:24:11.879 reading my nonsense. Co Chairs an interesting show at an interesting point in time. 2080 02:24:11.040 --> 02:24:16.280 Absolutely forever in that ass And just finally from Steve from the Positively Pro 2081 02:24:16.360 --> 02:24:20.120 Wrestling podcast out of Chicago, Gentlemen, I attended aw Revolution at the Winterest 2082 02:24:20.159 --> 02:24:22.959 Arena in Chicago, Illinois, the last major wrestling show before the world shut 2083 02:24:22.040 --> 02:24:24.440 down. It's hard for some of us to remember the before time, the 2084 02:24:24.479 --> 02:24:28.200 time right before everything changed forever. I have a good memory of the days 2085 02:24:28.239 --> 02:24:30.680 and hours leading up to the show. C two e two. The Big 2086 02:24:30.719 --> 02:24:33.159 Comic con was in town that weekend as well, and the convention was directly 2087 02:24:33.159 --> 02:24:35.120 across the street from the arena, and as we're about to find out, 2088 02:24:35.159 --> 02:24:37.000 thanks to Gabe no small partner in making this thing happen in the first place, 2089 02:24:37.840 --> 02:24:41.040 right. It was an interesting group of cost players, wrestling fans, 2090 02:24:41.079 --> 02:24:43.000 and all in everyone seemed in a good mood around the arena. This is 2091 02:24:43.040 --> 02:24:46.399 the first time I can remember feeling uncomfortable around a large group of people since 2092 02:24:46.479 --> 02:24:50.000 reports a coronavirus started taking over most of the local and national news man. 2093 02:24:50.079 --> 02:24:52.920 Yeah, I think about that coursing through the minds of people in this building 2094 02:24:52.920 --> 02:24:56.399 when you watch this show. None totally, Yeah, none of us could 2095 02:24:56.399 --> 02:24:58.760 have imagined what would end up happening. But I distinctly remember thinking I was 2096 02:24:58.799 --> 02:25:03.159 on a crowded city bus heading to the arena and wondering, I wonder if 2097 02:25:03.159 --> 02:25:05.000 anyone is sick. In many ways, this is also the last AW show 2098 02:25:05.040 --> 02:25:07.799 that felt like the cool I used that term loosely. Is really nothing in 2099 02:25:07.840 --> 02:25:11.479 wrestling as cool placed to be. That's interesting. It was well known but 2100 02:25:11.600 --> 02:25:16.719 not overrun yet with weird wrestling fan tribalism, we fans bought into the idea 2101 02:25:18.079 --> 02:25:20.639 that we really were part of a revolution in wrestling, and that for the 2102 02:25:20.719 --> 02:25:22.639 fans, by the fans could actually be a thing. Of course, we 2103 02:25:22.719 --> 02:25:26.360 were all mistaken for when Cody unveiled his neck tattooed that night, you could 2104 02:25:26.399 --> 02:25:30.399 almost hear an audible groan from everyone, like is this wheel? Is this 2105 02:25:30.559 --> 02:25:33.200 happening? I'm still a big AW fan and watch it week to week. 2106 02:25:33.399 --> 02:25:35.520 Not everything is great, but I often find the good. Doubt weighs the 2107 02:25:35.559 --> 02:25:39.120 bad during their TV and pay per views, but it will never be the 2108 02:25:39.200 --> 02:25:41.600 same as that first year when everything was exciting and new. As for the 2109 02:25:41.680 --> 02:25:45.879 show, aw Revolution, I remember thinking it was excellent. Tag title Natch 2110 02:25:45.920 --> 02:25:48.079 and Darby Verse same were huge highlights for me and the live crowd. I 2111 02:25:48.159 --> 02:25:50.879 wasn't into the main event, but the rest of the crowd was, and 2112 02:25:50.920 --> 02:25:52.360 we were all happy to see a new world champion crowd. A few more 2113 02:25:52.440 --> 02:25:56.639 notes from being there alive. The light up bracelets we're only given out to 2114 02:25:56.680 --> 02:26:01.399 people sitting on the hard cam side. This cost measurement working the alf A 2115 02:26:01.479 --> 02:26:03.479 double, since it didn't look as cool as it would have had the whole 2116 02:26:03.479 --> 02:26:07.520 arena had them. Did you note in watching the show what he's talking about, 2117 02:26:07.559 --> 02:26:09.600 Boss, Nope, I'm going to talk about it in the Deep Dive 2118 02:26:09.639 --> 02:26:13.959 a bit. But it was in vogue. I remember I went to a 2119 02:26:13.000 --> 02:26:16.360 Tailor Swift concert at Gillette Stadium a couple of years before this and they handled 2120 02:26:16.360 --> 02:26:20.479 these out too. It was a super cool thing. They give you a 2121 02:26:20.559 --> 02:26:22.120 bracelet to wear. They don't have to, but I think you know most 2122 02:26:22.159 --> 02:26:26.200 people put it on and it's it's got a chip in there, and they 2123 02:26:26.319 --> 02:26:31.280 send via you know, yeah, I think r F I D. Sorry, 2124 02:26:31.399 --> 02:26:33.399 I'm still at the part. You went to a Tailor Swift concert. 2125 02:26:33.520 --> 02:26:37.799 Yeah I did. I did go. I like to see people who are 2126 02:26:37.879 --> 02:26:43.040 sensations do their thing in any in any media. And it wasn't it was 2127 02:26:43.120 --> 02:26:46.520 it was my choice. Yeah, I mean, I wow, Yeah, 2128 02:26:46.680 --> 02:26:50.639 she likes she likes music. But yeah, I mean, if if someone's 2129 02:26:50.639 --> 02:26:54.280 filling a stadium, I want to know why. Yep. That's how I 2130 02:26:54.360 --> 02:26:58.799 lived my life. And and so there I was, and they handed these 2131 02:26:58.879 --> 02:27:03.159 out, and I think it was through RFID technology. They send a signal 2132 02:27:03.280 --> 02:27:05.520 at a given time during the performance when they want to create a certain effect. 2133 02:27:05.799 --> 02:27:13.879 So the whole arena three sixty flashes in a continuous pattern, like and 2134 02:27:15.000 --> 02:27:20.559 everyone's wrist lights up different colors. Wow. And it's like sixty thousand people, 2135 02:27:20.799 --> 02:27:24.559 sixty thousand points of light. And the effects that you can create around 2136 02:27:24.600 --> 02:27:30.479 this stadium by sending certain colors in certain flash at certain times in sync with 2137 02:27:30.559 --> 02:27:33.200 the music was really cool. It's not unlike you know, synchronized fireworks to 2138 02:27:33.319 --> 02:27:37.719 music, or I think like the Christmas lights that people do around their houses. 2139 02:27:37.239 --> 02:27:39.440 It's kind of like that. Yes, it's kind of like that, 2140 02:27:39.520 --> 02:27:43.000 but it's a little more profound, and that it's sixty thousand of them in 2141 02:27:43.079 --> 02:27:46.000 a circle of a dome, and you're like, you're looking out on this 2142 02:27:46.159 --> 02:27:52.440 mass of humanity and it's it's it's it's all moving as if in succession, 2143 02:27:52.520 --> 02:27:56.440 and you don't even realize you're part of it, but it's all part of 2144 02:27:56.440 --> 02:28:00.360 the whole. I remember looking at them the manufacturer on the bracelet to figure 2145 02:28:00.360 --> 02:28:01.719 out who's selling these things, because I'm like, this is a money idea, 2146 02:28:01.879 --> 02:28:05.040 And I immediately, of course thought about wrestling and why they don't haven't 2147 02:28:05.079 --> 02:28:09.200 done this yet in a wrestling show, and of course, and I forgot 2148 02:28:09.280 --> 02:28:11.200 they tried it here at Revolution, but I haven't seen it since, so 2149 02:28:11.280 --> 02:28:16.239 I guess it wasn't considered worth the investment because it is kind of a bitch 2150 02:28:16.280 --> 02:28:18.239 to have to hand all these things out at the point of entry. Of 2151 02:28:18.319 --> 02:28:22.360 course, just for an effect. They're probably tracking me and listening to me 2152 02:28:22.440 --> 02:28:26.159 too, but that's fine, that's right, they are. So yeah, 2153 02:28:26.159 --> 02:28:28.159 he writes, this cost cutting measure I ended up not working out for a 2154 02:28:28.239 --> 02:28:30.200 double since it didn't look as cool as it would have. The whole mein 2155 02:28:30.239 --> 02:28:31.559 to had them it was a legit packed house, no open seats or empty 2156 02:28:31.559 --> 02:28:35.959 sections. Everyone was really looking forward to singing Judas as Jericho came out. 2157 02:28:35.159 --> 02:28:37.520 This is when it was still relatively new and organic, but a w and 2158 02:28:37.520 --> 02:28:41.959 I'm assuming Jericho overthought it and tried to make his entrance some grand special thing 2159 02:28:41.000 --> 02:28:43.920 instead of just keeping it simple and then ended up being a disappointment. Well, 2160 02:28:45.760 --> 02:28:48.639 after the chorus, they play the music the same they I know, 2161 02:28:48.760 --> 02:28:50.920 I don't understand why what the big deal was like. It wasn't like Cody's 2162 02:28:52.000 --> 02:28:54.280 where they never played you know, the song itself. You just had to 2163 02:28:54.280 --> 02:28:58.200 hear the live band. But then they sang it, and then they played 2164 02:28:58.200 --> 02:29:01.159 it like they always do when you can sing along like always. Yeah, 2165 02:29:01.559 --> 02:29:03.959 speak of that entrance. I sent you a DM on Twitter at some more 2166 02:29:03.000 --> 02:29:07.319 background. Okay, thank you as always for the laughs, the insight, 2167 02:29:07.360 --> 02:29:11.840 and the audio therapy as well as we all the audiotherapy we all need is 2168 02:29:11.959 --> 02:29:16.159 sick wrestling fans. That's correct, Yes, thank you for all comedia. 2169 02:29:16.239 --> 02:29:18.280 Brother, Thank you Steve. Great to hear from you, Thanks for your 2170 02:29:18.719 --> 02:29:22.079 efforts, and thanks for your missive. It helps color in our processing of 2171 02:29:22.319 --> 02:29:26.840 the TLF Hopper delivered aw Revolution twenty twenty here on that fucking cast and now 2172 02:29:26.879 --> 02:29:31.159 for sure we turned it over to Gabe, a long strong member of the 2173 02:29:31.239 --> 02:29:33.840 Solar System, to talk about not only why he chose this for the Hopper, 2174 02:29:33.959 --> 02:29:37.760 but the role he played as someone involved in the exhibitions business in the 2175 02:29:37.799 --> 02:29:43.280 comic book world in making A E W and C two E two come together, 2176 02:29:43.399 --> 02:29:46.159 joined forces and find a home for a show that aw kind of thought 2177 02:29:46.239 --> 02:29:50.000 it wanted to do around this point in the calendar, but until at least 2178 02:29:50.040 --> 02:29:54.000 to hear Gabe tell it, him and his organization reached out to A W 2179 02:29:54.479 --> 02:29:58.040 didn't necessarily have a when, where and how strategy for revolution. So we're 2180 02:29:58.079 --> 02:30:01.040 proud to bring you not just you know, our opinion on the show, 2181 02:30:01.079 --> 02:30:05.760 but a little bit of background information. I don't think anyone's ever heard before 2182 02:30:05.760 --> 02:30:09.399 about how the show actually came together in February of twenty twenty, right before 2183 02:30:09.399 --> 02:30:13.159 the pandemic. So we'll hit Gabe and we'll see you on the other side 2184 02:30:13.200 --> 02:30:16.360 of this break. Before we talk to Gabe, I just want to be 2185 02:30:16.440 --> 02:30:20.399 sure. I don't think do we have a death toll? Uh No, 2186 02:30:20.760 --> 02:30:26.840 I don't think anyone's gone honestly, because before Brody League came in. I 2187 02:30:26.920 --> 02:30:28.719 think that's it. Well, perhaps we'll notice as we don't think I don't 2188 02:30:28.760 --> 02:30:33.280 think that I didn't recall a death toll. I don't think so on this 2189 02:30:33.360 --> 02:30:37.319 one because Jr. Still alive and yeah, and so that about tells the 2190 02:30:37.319 --> 02:30:43.280 story. Yeah, all right, So here's Gabe as the Hopper is back, 2191 02:30:43.399 --> 02:30:46.200 contributing to TLF Cannon and we'll see you on the other side for our 2192 02:30:46.280 --> 02:30:50.840 deep dive of aw Revolution twenty twenty. Well, Boss, the Hopper always 2193 02:30:52.159 --> 02:30:56.280 pushes us out of our comfort zone. It's it's one of the reliable things 2194 02:30:56.319 --> 02:31:03.399 about it and almost always, Yeah, we're grateful for it. This this 2195 02:31:03.600 --> 02:31:07.879 is an interesting one, you know. The Hopper is about the winner's story, 2196 02:31:09.639 --> 02:31:13.399 Yes, around the event. It's it's not always about picking the thing 2197 02:31:13.559 --> 02:31:18.639 that you always wanted the co chairman to take a swing at from reaping the 2198 02:31:18.799 --> 02:31:22.760 archives. It's about what what unique perspective about the event can you bring? 2199 02:31:22.840 --> 02:31:26.760 And I think our guest, one of the the truest, bluest members of 2200 02:31:26.799 --> 02:31:31.239 the lapsed Fan Solar system, Gabe who prevailed, who is triumphant and the 2201 02:31:31.319 --> 02:31:37.280 return of the Hopper here in twenty twenty three has quite a nine hundred three 2202 02:31:37.319 --> 02:31:43.079 dollars and sixteen bitches. But who's counting. But who's counting besides us, 2203 02:31:43.399 --> 02:31:50.079 of course, is Gabe and and Gabe. Gabe's a veteran of the when 2204 02:31:50.079 --> 02:31:52.600 are you gonna When are you gonna tell your child that you gave part of 2205 02:31:52.639 --> 02:31:58.680 their college fund a way to us? Look, look, man, we're 2206 02:31:58.719 --> 02:32:01.000 not gonna Look, we're not going to talk about it. She's never gonna 2207 02:32:01.000 --> 02:32:05.879 watch wrestling. It's it's not gonna happen. That's more. That's more of 2208 02:32:05.959 --> 02:32:09.680 the problem. That's that's more of the problem. She's gonna say, you 2209 02:32:09.719 --> 02:32:13.639 fucking gave you gave my college education, my college tuition to these fucking clowns 2210 02:32:15.000 --> 02:32:20.959 talking about fake sports. Dad. The story, the story must be told. 2211 02:32:22.479 --> 02:32:26.840 I'm a historian at heart. I mean, before we get to the 2212 02:32:26.879 --> 02:32:28.879 story, I mean, you guys are talking about it, and of course 2213 02:32:28.920 --> 02:32:31.079 we're all well acquainted with with Blake from the Solar System as well, and 2214 02:32:31.120 --> 02:32:33.719 I remember he wrote an email to us and it really hit me hard. 2215 02:32:33.799 --> 02:32:37.200 It's like, and you know, when you spoke about your child and wrestling 2216 02:32:37.239 --> 02:32:41.120 fandom. I mean, Gabe, what are we supposed to do with the 2217 02:32:41.159 --> 02:32:50.120 fact that we are parents playing with the toys more than the kids? Yeah? 2218 02:32:50.879 --> 02:32:56.479 Yeah, you just gave me goosebumps. There, there's it's it's a 2219 02:32:56.719 --> 02:33:03.639 it's a conversation that I have often with my wife because and I found myself 2220 02:33:03.680 --> 02:33:07.360 and I don't know if you guys found this too. I'm my daughter is 2221 02:33:07.600 --> 02:33:09.360 four months old, right, so I'm very new at this since my first, 2222 02:33:09.639 --> 02:33:18.879 first kid. And what I'm discovering is that I'm I'm finding myself separating 2223 02:33:18.000 --> 02:33:24.520 more from the product generally just because I don't have as much time. Yeah. 2224 02:33:24.600 --> 02:33:28.440 Sure, and certainly I haven't been close to the product that's on television 2225 02:33:28.520 --> 02:33:33.719 much anyway. But like even the watching late at night of you know, 2226 02:33:33.959 --> 02:33:41.159 superstars, some random superstars from nineteen ninety one, it starts to get a 2227 02:33:41.239 --> 02:33:48.319 little like there's as you watch it, there's more self loathing because of that 2228 02:33:48.520 --> 02:33:52.920 thing in the back of your head that goes, you're a parent, what 2229 02:33:52.000 --> 02:33:56.840 are you doing? Yes? Like, and we are the first generation, 2230 02:33:58.239 --> 02:34:01.959 the first generation to have this feeling as it regards wrestling. Yes, I 2231 02:34:03.000 --> 02:34:05.079 should be I should be watching, you know, like if I'm up at 2232 02:34:05.120 --> 02:34:09.760 eleven o'clock at nine, everybody's asleep, I should be watching curb your enthusiasm, 2233 02:34:09.319 --> 02:34:15.840 not you know, the the ultimate warrior writhing on the matt with fake 2234 02:34:15.920 --> 02:34:20.520 black shit coming out of his forehead. I ask yourself, not only what 2235 02:34:20.600 --> 02:34:24.040 am I doing, but what am I reaching for? Yes? What is 2236 02:34:24.040 --> 02:34:28.559 slipping away? Right? Yeah? Yeah, And I think that's exactly why 2237 02:34:28.600 --> 02:34:33.159 I brought up that clip because I have such strong memories of watching that originally 2238 02:34:33.280 --> 02:34:37.920 on Superstars some Saturday morning at one of my dad's friends house, Like I 2239 02:34:37.959 --> 02:34:41.200 remember, like it was yesterday, and yeah, what am I reaching for? 2240 02:34:41.280 --> 02:34:43.200 You're absolutely right? What am I trying to get? Back? BLUs? 2241 02:34:43.239 --> 02:34:48.239 I cut you off there. You're gonna say something I don't remember now, 2242 02:34:48.399 --> 02:34:50.079 all right, that's all good. Yeah, Well, it's a w 2243 02:34:50.319 --> 02:34:54.520 revolution twenty twenty speaking about things we're going to be watching in the dark in 2244 02:34:54.600 --> 02:34:58.000 four years. Yeah, it's uh no, look, I'm gonna stop you 2245 02:34:58.120 --> 02:35:03.520 right there. Absolutely. So. I was about to say that Gabe is 2246 02:35:03.719 --> 02:35:07.040 a veteran of the exhibition circuit. He's he of course, came into our 2247 02:35:07.120 --> 02:35:11.639 lives when he was working at a comic book company that was one of our 2248 02:35:11.719 --> 02:35:13.639 very first sponsors here on the show. So he's been near and dear to 2249 02:35:13.719 --> 02:35:18.920 us for some time, and as I understand it, Gabe is Aw kind 2250 02:35:18.920 --> 02:35:20.559 of became a thing. And we certainly ran into each other at the first 2251 02:35:20.600 --> 02:35:28.639 star cast and the first all in and cross pollinated there in Shamburg things Loue 2252 02:35:28.680 --> 02:35:31.360 Melnotti's tip, by the way, I still remember that, yeah, uh, 2253 02:35:33.000 --> 02:35:39.719 the and I still remember the accent of the waitress as well. Thicker 2254 02:35:39.799 --> 02:35:46.040 than the pie and her stubble thicker than the pie in many ways was she. 2255 02:35:48.000 --> 02:35:52.799 But you know, when it comes to this kind of you know, 2256 02:35:52.959 --> 02:35:58.680 the indie spirit of of of in the comic book almost entrepreneur spirit of you 2257 02:35:58.760 --> 02:36:01.440 know, Kenny and the Bucks and and and they're sort of you know, 2258 02:36:01.680 --> 02:36:05.719 video game enthusiasts and comic book and fantasy and all this kind of your world 2259 02:36:05.799 --> 02:36:09.840 kind of clashed with what was that initial aw energy and I think in some 2260 02:36:09.959 --> 02:36:15.239 ways come a revolution to your home base there in Chicago. Uh, it 2261 02:36:15.319 --> 02:36:18.959 became a real thing for you where you were actually not just watching the show 2262 02:36:18.000 --> 02:36:22.159 and remembering it, you were sort of working it. Yeah, it was, 2263 02:36:22.360 --> 02:36:24.840 it's it's it's a it's a weird thing, you know, Like I, 2264 02:36:26.200 --> 02:36:31.840 uh, my dad, you know, introduced me to wrestling, and 2265 02:36:31.120 --> 02:36:37.559 and this is after my dad had passed, and I'll get to the story 2266 02:36:37.600 --> 02:36:41.319 in a second. But just like the idea of having a bit more of 2267 02:36:41.399 --> 02:36:46.440 a hand in it was just really intriguing to me, and so like I 2268 02:36:46.600 --> 02:36:52.840 often do, like I did back in twenty fifteen, when I convinced a 2269 02:36:54.040 --> 02:36:58.920 video game studio that makes billions of dollars a year to give you, guys 2270 02:36:58.040 --> 02:37:05.239 like fifteen grand for like eight weeks of sponsorship or something like that. Uh, 2271 02:37:05.639 --> 02:37:09.040 it doesn't happen. Uh, And you can't feel free to edit that 2272 02:37:09.079 --> 02:37:15.319 out if you want to. But what and I you know, and I 2273 02:37:15.479 --> 02:37:20.200 had to give you this much money to finally hit the uh thousand dollars club. 2274 02:37:22.360 --> 02:37:28.040 Anyway, I don't see a problem. Gave gave Game Minds his accounts 2275 02:37:28.079 --> 02:37:33.120 man, a checkbook ledger there, Yeah, no. Uh. My point 2276 02:37:33.239 --> 02:37:39.239 is is that it just if you don't make the ask, you never get 2277 02:37:39.319 --> 02:37:43.920 the answers that you want. That's right. And so before I get too 2278 02:37:43.000 --> 02:37:48.920 deep into it, though I promised myself I would do this. A couple 2279 02:37:48.920 --> 02:37:54.200 of days after I won the hopper my three dollars and sixteen cents about ten 2280 02:37:54.319 --> 02:37:58.680 seconds left in the in the contest. Fuck you if you don't have that 2281 02:37:58.719 --> 02:38:07.559 strors. I Uh, you guys put up the picture of Moxley over or 2282 02:38:07.840 --> 02:38:13.799 yeah, Moxley over Jericho's prone body in the ring, and on on X 2283 02:38:13.239 --> 02:38:18.879 or Twitter, whatever you people want to call it now and the fervor in 2284 02:38:18.959 --> 02:38:22.840 the comments. Gentlemen, I have to tell you I was absolutely blown away, 2285 02:38:24.319 --> 02:38:28.079 and so I have the receipts now and I'm going to call you all 2286 02:38:28.120 --> 02:38:35.680 out one by Wow, Scott Sudakov, yikes, I'll pay for this not 2287 02:38:35.840 --> 02:38:39.639 to happen. And I replied pretty directly to Scott and said, you'll shut 2288 02:38:39.719 --> 02:38:43.639 your mouth and you'll listen, just like a good boy. And you will, 2289 02:38:43.719 --> 02:38:48.239 Scott, I know you're listening. Uh. Let's see here. Uh. 2290 02:38:48.399 --> 02:38:52.959 The one that I was most surprised Christian Hollister. Yeah, he wasn't 2291 02:38:52.959 --> 02:38:56.399 about this man. He's so anti it's amazing away from the court essence of 2292 02:38:56.479 --> 02:39:01.319 what TLF was meant to be. They did a it's a solid doing TNA 2293 02:39:01.440 --> 02:39:03.959 and that blood and guts, but this isn't the TLF way. Don't take 2294 02:39:03.959 --> 02:39:07.920 advantage of the hopper folks. Let me tell you something, Christian, bless 2295 02:39:07.959 --> 02:39:11.799 you for giving them also all this money over the years. I love you. 2296 02:39:11.920 --> 02:39:15.280 I think that's great. I'm glad we like the same podcasts. You 2297 02:39:15.440 --> 02:39:18.360 should have nutted up and give them some more so you didn't have to listen 2298 02:39:18.399 --> 02:39:22.000 to this, because now you're gonna listen and you're gonna like it. Yeah. 2299 02:39:22.680 --> 02:39:28.159 Sometimes sometimes we gotta teach lessons about America. You know that's right now 2300 02:39:28.799 --> 02:39:31.799 that that's out of the way. Yeah, the reason I wanted to do 2301 02:39:31.920 --> 02:39:35.600 the show I will put everybody a bit at ease, and JP, I 2302 02:39:35.840 --> 02:39:41.399 apologize profusely for having to put you through this. But why does everyone think 2303 02:39:41.399 --> 02:39:46.959 I hate I hate a W. That's such a miss number. Well, 2304 02:39:48.000 --> 02:39:50.479 there's bits and pieces that you're absolutely going to hate. That's that's why. 2305 02:39:50.520 --> 02:39:54.559 I Oh, I'm not saying that. It's that it's a fucking exciting show, 2306 02:39:54.639 --> 02:39:58.000 but everyone's like talking about it. How I'm suffering watching a W. 2307 02:39:58.159 --> 02:40:00.600 I think aw's fine. Just don't watch You'll be two because I don't. 2308 02:40:00.760 --> 02:40:05.000 You know, I don't care that much. Yeah, I don't. Well 2309 02:40:05.120 --> 02:40:07.799 you know what, I don't. I don't even now. I don't even 2310 02:40:07.840 --> 02:40:09.799 watch it week to week. And I think again, I think it's the 2311 02:40:09.879 --> 02:40:13.639 kid thing. But long story short, and it's a very long story, 2312 02:40:13.840 --> 02:40:20.319 But I worked for like to what Jack was saying, I was working for 2313 02:40:20.360 --> 02:40:24.120 a company that that puts on large scale pop culture events all over the country 2314 02:40:24.200 --> 02:40:28.520 New York Comic Con, Emerald City Comic Con in Seattle, and and C 2315 02:40:28.680 --> 02:40:31.079 two E two in Chicago, which is kind of my home base and and 2316 02:40:31.159 --> 02:40:33.760 where I got my start doing this stuff. And you know, it's you 2317 02:40:33.840 --> 02:40:37.680 know, we see ninety thousand people across the weekend, and you know, 2318 02:40:37.920 --> 02:40:45.000 Marvel is there ninety three thousand people, you know, ninety three nine, 2319 02:40:45.879 --> 02:40:52.840 ninety three thousand, one hundred and seventy three people. Yes, that page, 2320 02:40:52.440 --> 02:40:58.840 it's I'm gonna be That's that's that's Turn, that's turnstyle, alright. 2321 02:41:00.440 --> 02:41:03.440 You know, you know there's never that many people in the room at one 2322 02:41:03.479 --> 02:41:13.040 time. Of course, anyway, huh, I h In twenty twenty nineteen, 2323 02:41:15.760 --> 02:41:20.520 Chicago's VIC Wrestling count as we all know, and our leadership really does 2324 02:41:20.639 --> 02:41:24.879 not understand wrestling because they're normal human beings, right of course, or as 2325 02:41:24.920 --> 02:41:28.200 close to normal as you can get when you're doing the job that we do. 2326 02:41:28.879 --> 02:41:33.520 Certainly not wrestling fans, so they have a lot more normalcy than than 2327 02:41:33.280 --> 02:41:39.000 I do, or my buddy Chris who also a wrestling fan, and we 2328 02:41:39.719 --> 02:41:43.200 we said, you know, it would be really cool. This aw thing 2329 02:41:43.280 --> 02:41:48.200 just got started. Uh, Chicago's MC wrestling town. What if we just 2330 02:41:48.399 --> 02:41:54.680 like reach out to whoever it is that handles bookings for Kenny Omega and the 2331 02:41:54.719 --> 02:41:58.079 Young Bucks to see if we can get them to a show. Because everybody 2332 02:41:58.159 --> 02:42:03.440 does a WW stars right, Wizard World was doing, you know, bringing 2333 02:42:03.520 --> 02:42:07.479 out the big stars, and they're very locked down because it's such a corporate 2334 02:42:07.600 --> 02:42:09.520 environment. It's like you get them for four hours, they won't do a 2335 02:42:09.559 --> 02:42:13.399 panel, like it's just four hours of autographing and photo ops and then they're 2336 02:42:13.399 --> 02:42:18.840 out right and so it was very kind of handcuffs things. It doesn't help 2337 02:42:18.920 --> 02:42:20.239 sell a lot of tickets. We thought, well, let's give this a 2338 02:42:20.319 --> 02:42:24.920 try. We reach out, We find out that the person that handles all 2339 02:42:24.959 --> 02:42:33.680 the bookings for those guys is Dana Massey, who's Matt Jackson's wife of the 2340 02:42:33.799 --> 02:42:39.200 Unbucks. And we hit it off pretty well and they agree and we get 2341 02:42:39.239 --> 02:42:41.600 the three of them to come to see two e two and we sell just 2342 02:42:43.079 --> 02:42:46.879 a boatload of tickets off their backs. In twenty nineteen, because wrestling fans 2343 02:42:48.280 --> 02:42:52.879 spend money, they were as you guys both know, right right, Yes, 2344 02:42:54.120 --> 02:42:58.639 such a such a misinterstood thing about the wrestling fan you know, yeah, 2345 02:42:58.399 --> 02:43:03.879 yeah, I mean look like all I mean it's a very it's a 2346 02:43:03.000 --> 02:43:09.760 very siloed sort of example or case stuff. But just look at you guys, 2347 02:43:09.840 --> 02:43:15.600 like it's just think about the business. Like but before streaming, before 2348 02:43:15.760 --> 02:43:18.760 the network, before peacock, like you had you had a sport here, 2349 02:43:20.000 --> 02:43:24.760 an entertainment enterprise that required you to spend fucking sixty dollars a month on pay 2350 02:43:24.840 --> 02:43:28.399 per views to keep pace, and people, hundreds of thousands of people in 2351 02:43:28.479 --> 02:43:33.360 this country did it? Sight unseen? What other sport do you have to 2352 02:43:33.440 --> 02:43:37.440 shell out that much money al cart to keep pace with? Like you know, 2353 02:43:37.479 --> 02:43:41.200 I don't, I don't care what the household income you know, stats 2354 02:43:41.280 --> 02:43:46.200 might tell you about other sports being wealthier that I don't care whatever, But 2355 02:43:46.280 --> 02:43:48.559 wrestling fans are willing to spend a greater percentage of their income on the sport, 2356 02:43:48.639 --> 02:43:54.840 correct than you know what I mean others correct, Yes, including bits 2357 02:43:54.879 --> 02:43:58.799 and pieces of their childs correct to their absolute detriment, and the gentlemen of 2358 02:43:58.840 --> 02:44:01.799 their families. Correct. Yep, that's that's the beauty of it. I 2359 02:44:01.840 --> 02:44:05.399 mean, because again, you are people wrestling fans are willing to sacrifice their 2360 02:44:05.440 --> 02:44:13.639 families and the people they love to spend money on this fake industry into an 2361 02:44:13.840 --> 02:44:20.040 entirely foe industry. Yeah, so, uh, we get them, We 2362 02:44:20.120 --> 02:44:22.680 get them to the show, We sell a bunch of ticket space off of 2363 02:44:22.760 --> 02:44:28.319 it. They in the convention business. If you see, you know, 2364 02:44:28.879 --> 02:44:35.079 some superstars at the show. Let's let's let's say it's like a real actor, 2365 02:44:35.200 --> 02:44:37.360 right, like, uh, I don't know the guy who plays Thore 2366 02:44:39.239 --> 02:44:41.840 or whatever is at a show. Oftentimes they come in on what's called a 2367 02:44:41.959 --> 02:44:50.120 guarantee. Essentially, what that guarantee says is that they take one hundred percent 2368 02:44:50.399 --> 02:44:56.440 of the sales of their photos and their autographs up until that guarantee, and 2369 02:44:56.520 --> 02:44:58.600 they'll take above and beyond as well. However, if say they're guarantee one 2370 02:44:58.639 --> 02:45:03.200 hundred thousand dollars and they only make sixty thousand dollars and photos and autographs, 2371 02:45:03.479 --> 02:45:07.000 the show is on the hook for the other forty k, right, So 2372 02:45:07.319 --> 02:45:11.600 they're guaranteed to walk out with that much money regardless. And when they go 2373 02:45:11.920 --> 02:45:13.399 I love and beyond the guarantee, then there's a split. I take it 2374 02:45:15.520 --> 02:45:20.520 for photos. Yes, for autographs usually they take one hundred percent. You 2375 02:45:20.600 --> 02:45:22.319 definitely have learned guy in his attention. Yeah, right, we go. 2376 02:45:24.120 --> 02:45:26.920 Uh they you know, the Bucks and Kenny absolutely killed it. They hit 2377 02:45:26.959 --> 02:45:31.479 their guarantee, their numbers in the first day because Chicago, they had never 2378 02:45:31.559 --> 02:45:37.280 done a show any of them before twenty nineteen, at least not a big 2379 02:45:37.360 --> 02:45:43.040 show where people the big show. What year are we talking about again, 2380 02:45:43.120 --> 02:45:46.399 Games twenty nineteen? Okay, so this isn't twenty. Is this before after 2381 02:45:46.520 --> 02:45:50.799 star This is before Starcast? No Starcast is eighteen eighteen, yeah yeah, 2382 02:45:50.920 --> 02:45:56.680 yeah, yeah eighteen, but after stay. Yeah, the Bucks, I 2383 02:45:56.760 --> 02:46:00.319 don't remember if the Bucks at a table Starcast. I don't think that they 2384 02:46:00.360 --> 02:46:05.239 did first one. I think they just had their there they read the story 2385 02:46:05.639 --> 02:46:09.159 that time or whatever, right, I remember that, that's right, Yeah, 2386 02:46:09.280 --> 02:46:11.559 Cody and the Bucks read the story. I remember that. Yeah. 2387 02:46:11.559 --> 02:46:15.319 So, uh, they hit their numbers on the first day, so they 2388 02:46:15.360 --> 02:46:18.559 were absolutely blown away. And you know what you learned very quickly when you 2389 02:46:18.639 --> 02:46:22.360 start doing this is like these celebrities are walking out of these these rooms with 2390 02:46:24.479 --> 02:46:28.600 like I've seen literal garbage bags of cash. Yeah, walking out of the 2391 02:46:28.719 --> 02:46:30.680 rooms. Yeah, because it's all it's all, it's all cash. I'm 2392 02:46:30.799 --> 02:46:33.479 not all that. Yeah yeah, yeah. So they had a great time. 2393 02:46:35.280 --> 02:46:37.360 Obviously, they walked out with a lot of money. They were happy, 2394 02:46:37.959 --> 02:46:43.520 and Chris my Buddy and I and and Dana Massey hit it off. 2395 02:46:43.559 --> 02:46:46.360 We were very friendly from then on. We talked quite a bit, and 2396 02:46:46.559 --> 02:46:50.200 while we were at the show, I just kind of made the offhander mark 2397 02:46:50.280 --> 02:46:52.719 of you know what, it would be really cool if we could have like 2398 02:46:52.920 --> 02:46:58.319 matches at the show next year, like do something with AW kind of just 2399 02:46:58.479 --> 02:47:03.319 off handed, like what if scenario right, Like that would be really cool 2400 02:47:03.360 --> 02:47:11.399 because you have the built in audience and whatever else. And so that idea 2401 02:47:11.600 --> 02:47:13.840 kind of stuck in our heads. We continue having conversations about it, and 2402 02:47:16.159 --> 02:47:22.000 in her sort of place as chief marketing officer at AW, she introduced him 2403 02:47:22.000 --> 02:47:26.239 to the right people to start kind of rolling this ball down the hill. 2404 02:47:26.760 --> 02:47:33.520 Now, this meant that I had to put together a pretty serious business plan 2405 02:47:33.760 --> 02:47:41.600 internally with my company to be able to justify, most importantly the rental of 2406 02:47:41.000 --> 02:47:46.399 an arena. Right. So c t E two, the show that we're 2407 02:47:46.440 --> 02:47:52.559 talking about is actually it's held in Chicago at McCormick Place, which is it's 2408 02:47:52.600 --> 02:47:56.159 the second largest indoor space in the world, largest indoor space in North America. 2409 02:47:56.200 --> 02:48:00.639 It's the largest conduction center in the States least at the time. I 2410 02:48:00.680 --> 02:48:03.399 think Las Vegas Convention Center is now bigger with their expansion, but uh, 2411 02:48:03.520 --> 02:48:07.239 this is getting a bit of needs. It's good to let me ask you, 2412 02:48:07.440 --> 02:48:11.120 when you know, when Kenny the Bucks come in and blow the guarantee 2413 02:48:11.159 --> 02:48:16.760 in day one out of the water, what's the reaction of people at the 2414 02:48:16.799 --> 02:48:18.719 company? Are they like, what the hell? Yeah, what's with wrestling 2415 02:48:18.799 --> 02:48:22.159 fans? Like they don't know what the hell this is about? Well, 2416 02:48:22.239 --> 02:48:26.200 and that's that's kind of the beauty of the thing, right, Like everybody 2417 02:48:26.680 --> 02:48:31.280 on our team, especially in leadership, like we we agreed to these guarantees 2418 02:48:31.360 --> 02:48:35.799 through these guys, and we're getting the side eye kind of constantly like that's 2419 02:48:35.920 --> 02:48:39.520 okay, we're coming out a budget here for for what for? Like these 2420 02:48:39.600 --> 02:48:43.680 wrestlers that we've never heard of, Like this isn't it's not stone cold Steve 2421 02:48:43.680 --> 02:48:48.239 Austin, it's not you know, I'm trying to think of other folks that, 2422 02:48:48.479 --> 02:48:50.600 you know, not going back to Hogan or whatever, but like that 2423 02:48:50.760 --> 02:48:54.920 that folks would have heard of it during this timeframe. I guess maybe Roman 2424 02:48:54.000 --> 02:48:58.879 Reigns seen at John Cena, Right, that's not those aren't the names that 2425 02:48:58.920 --> 02:49:01.200 people are used to hearing, like making the young Bucks. What does this 2426 02:49:01.280 --> 02:49:03.760 even mean? And so yeah, the whole time leaning up to the show 2427 02:49:03.879 --> 02:49:07.000 is just kind of like, all right, we'll give you this, you 2428 02:49:07.040 --> 02:49:11.360 know, enough rope to hang yourself, right, but don't don't you know, 2429 02:49:11.719 --> 02:49:15.760 don't think that it's going to get much further than that. And then 2430 02:49:15.920 --> 02:49:18.520 you know, they get blown away. It's and also you know, don't 2431 02:49:18.600 --> 02:49:20.040 don't don't think you're going to have a job when this ship's all over. 2432 02:49:20.319 --> 02:49:26.879 Okay, but we knew, like we knew Chicago, especially right like, 2433 02:49:28.360 --> 02:49:31.520 was going to come out for this. It's like an absolute no brainer. 2434 02:49:33.200 --> 02:49:35.639 And if we're because it's Chicago, right, like if it was you know, 2435 02:49:35.760 --> 02:49:39.079 a show in Seattle, like, no, of course we're not going 2436 02:49:39.120 --> 02:49:41.680 to bring them out here. No one gives a shit. You know, 2437 02:49:41.840 --> 02:49:48.159 it's that meat and potatoes audience that that you know, has that wrestling heritage, 2438 02:49:48.280 --> 02:49:52.520 right, it's a wrestling heritage market. So they hit and yeah, 2439 02:49:52.600 --> 02:49:58.799 so at this point the show's over and we have the leadership at the com 2440 02:50:00.040 --> 02:50:03.840 he has proof of concept now, right, they see that that people spend 2441 02:50:03.879 --> 02:50:07.479 money on the wrestling, and at least in Chicago, and they're willing to 2442 02:50:07.559 --> 02:50:09.879 give us a little bit more rope to hang ourselves. Right. So these 2443 02:50:09.920 --> 02:50:15.040 are comic book people, Yeah, in wrestling is pretty much the only thing 2444 02:50:15.120 --> 02:50:18.840 they could look down on. Oh yeah, without question. And I just 2445 02:50:18.959 --> 02:50:22.799 love it. I love I love the fact that like even comic book nerds 2446 02:50:22.879 --> 02:50:28.120 can be so about pro wrestling. That's how absolutely absolutely yeah, no, 2447 02:50:28.280 --> 02:50:31.959 it's it's one hundred percent. It's the it's the the lowest form of entertainment. 2448 02:50:33.000 --> 02:50:35.600 And I you know, I often have I often have a lot of 2449 02:50:35.639 --> 02:50:39.360 problems with it in my head because, like you know, I think we've 2450 02:50:39.479 --> 02:50:43.440 discussed before on on shows where I've been around, or maybe it was on 2451 02:50:43.559 --> 02:50:50.399 my thing that you know, such a large percentage of folks with developmental disabilities, 2452 02:50:50.799 --> 02:50:54.360 Uh yeah, loves professional wrestling because it's so black and white, it's 2453 02:50:54.440 --> 02:51:01.120 so easy to wrap their head around. And and you know, if if 2454 02:51:01.639 --> 02:51:05.760 if you're an alert and awake human being that considers yourself a wrestling fan, 2455 02:51:05.000 --> 02:51:09.639 and that doesn't grind your gears and bother you a little bit about yourself. 2456 02:51:09.760 --> 02:51:13.159 Then there's something wrong with you. Yeah, right, well you've lost the 2457 02:51:13.239 --> 02:51:22.840 plot. Yeah, you've entered. Yeah, so we uh we still you 2458 02:51:22.959 --> 02:51:28.120 know, Dana introduces me to a guy who you guys have probably heard of 2459 02:51:28.319 --> 02:51:31.200 before. He's actually been more in the mainstream lately. He was on Jericho's 2460 02:51:31.239 --> 02:51:35.159 podcast recently. I think he's on a panel at this star cast that they're 2461 02:51:35.200 --> 02:51:43.120 holding this week in Chicago. His name is raf Rafael Morphy. Raffael Morphy's 2462 02:51:43.159 --> 02:51:46.120 been in the wrestling industry for a long time. He was with DNA before, 2463 02:51:46.120 --> 02:51:48.600 he was with a W and before that he was with w W uh 2464 02:51:48.840 --> 02:51:54.399 w WF. And he's the guy he's with the World Wildlife Fun too. 2465 02:51:54.239 --> 02:51:58.040 He worked with the animals, He worked with the Animals and World Wildlife Fund. 2466 02:51:58.719 --> 02:52:05.040 Correct. Yeah, you know that that classic match between uh the Gorilla 2467 02:52:05.159 --> 02:52:09.399 and the Lion in seventy seven. Yeah, you know, I'm I'm I 2468 02:52:09.399 --> 02:52:15.360 actually prefer the ones between the Pandas and the and the Tigers. That's such 2469 02:52:15.399 --> 02:52:20.520 a classic, underrated match. Yeah for sure, though how boring I know, 2470 02:52:20.760 --> 02:52:24.079 I know, but it was entertaining. Yeah that's fair, that's fair. 2471 02:52:26.559 --> 02:52:30.200 Now, raf he's been around for a long time. He was actually 2472 02:52:30.360 --> 02:52:35.239 Also he's also like sort of and this is this, this is part of 2473 02:52:35.319 --> 02:52:39.799 what we've learned Chris and I have learned about like the industry, like RAF 2474 02:52:39.040 --> 02:52:46.840 is also like the like unofficially like Jr's like personal assistant tremendous. So he's 2475 02:52:46.840 --> 02:52:52.120 the guy who gets So he's the guy who gets him his pot. I'm 2476 02:52:52.239 --> 02:52:56.399 sure he gets him his pot, like I'm sure he does a whole hell 2477 02:52:56.440 --> 02:52:58.760 of a lot more for him. I assume that he hides. Nope, 2478 02:53:00.000 --> 02:53:03.159 we're not gonna do you think do you think? Do you think? Do 2479 02:53:03.280 --> 02:53:09.079 you think he gets him women? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yes he 2480 02:53:09.200 --> 02:53:18.399 does sauce fucking you know, he's like but JR Has one one request whenever 2481 02:53:18.479 --> 02:53:22.639 he gets an whenever, whenever he he rents a woman, which is she's 2482 02:53:22.680 --> 02:53:30.079 got to drink a bottle of sauce beforehand, so disgusting. Oh my god, 2483 02:53:30.799 --> 02:53:37.120 she needs, you know, she needs to riak of barbecue. Man. 2484 02:53:37.440 --> 02:53:41.600 I hope, I hope Daddy magic doesn't work. This work this back 2485 02:53:41.639 --> 02:53:45.399 to wrath if you're listening, but do me the favorite, like I'm the 2486 02:53:45.479 --> 02:53:48.040 guy that was backstays. I told you were great, told you I was 2487 02:53:48.079 --> 02:53:50.159 a fan, Like come on, like, keep this low key, all 2488 02:53:50.239 --> 02:53:54.280 right, anyway, I spent a lot of money on this. Don't get 2489 02:53:54.319 --> 02:54:01.399 me in trouble with Wrath, because I guarantee you he's the only one from 2490 02:54:01.639 --> 02:54:09.079 that locker room that listens religiously. I'm almost positive. Now we start having 2491 02:54:09.120 --> 02:54:13.079 conversations about like routing and where they're going to be at what times and when 2492 02:54:13.159 --> 02:54:18.879 they have in mind for new stuff. At the time, the company was 2493 02:54:18.959 --> 02:54:22.680 so new they hadn't even had a full cycle of pay per views yet, 2494 02:54:22.760 --> 02:54:26.719 they haven't even had the four papers year per year that they were working on. 2495 02:54:26.040 --> 02:54:31.879 And he lets it drop that they're thinking about having a pay per view 2496 02:54:31.920 --> 02:54:37.280 in late February early March. Anyway, Well, the C two E two 2497 02:54:37.280 --> 02:54:43.079 show in twenty twenty is to take place over leap year weekend, so it's 2498 02:54:43.120 --> 02:54:50.920 like the twenty eight to twenty ninth and the first and low and behold. 2499 02:54:50.000 --> 02:54:54.159 I was I was going to talk about this earlier. McCormick Place is part 2500 02:54:54.200 --> 02:55:00.639 of just a massive complex on the South side of Chicago, and in the 2501 02:55:00.799 --> 02:55:07.760 last three or four years they built like an eight thousand seat arena for the 2502 02:55:07.879 --> 02:55:13.399 DePaul men's and women's basketball teams to compete out of it. And it's part 2503 02:55:13.559 --> 02:55:20.000 of the McCormick Place complex, which means that my company has access to it 2504 02:55:20.239 --> 02:55:24.840 as an extra on the lease that we hold on McCormick Place for c tow 2505 02:55:24.920 --> 02:55:31.319 E two weekend. Great. So I'm starting to piece these things together in 2506 02:55:31.399 --> 02:55:35.239 my head, and I go, you know, like, what would it 2507 02:55:35.319 --> 02:55:41.600 look like? Not unlike, what would it sound like? It all? 2508 02:55:41.719 --> 02:55:46.840 Come on, come on, what would it look like if if we took 2509 02:55:46.920 --> 02:55:52.639 on the building, took on for Friday and Saturday? What does rent look 2510 02:55:52.719 --> 02:55:58.399 like? And then you know, with aw, they're new, you know, 2511 02:55:58.600 --> 02:56:01.440 I'm I'm sure at this point, like in this point in their history, 2512 02:56:01.559 --> 02:56:05.639 like as we're talking today, I don't think they would entertain this sort 2513 02:56:05.680 --> 02:56:09.040 of thing. But I don't know if you guys remember this, but very 2514 02:56:09.079 --> 02:56:13.479 early on in the company, they did this fight Yeah, thank you, 2515 02:56:13.680 --> 02:56:18.120 Yeah, I think it was I think it was a fight for the Fallen 2516 02:56:18.799 --> 02:56:26.600 was the first one with this show called CEO in Orlando or maybe with South 2517 02:56:26.680 --> 02:56:28.920 Florida or North Florida, but whatever. It was a video gaming show, 2518 02:56:30.559 --> 02:56:35.239 right, and they did a little show at the show in a small you 2519 02:56:35.319 --> 02:56:39.879 know, like a thousand or fifteen hundred seat arena, and that is what 2520 02:56:41.120 --> 02:56:43.680 kind of spurred in my head that said, hey, we could actually make 2521 02:56:43.760 --> 02:56:48.280 this happen, and I think it would it would go really well. So, 2522 02:56:48.399 --> 02:56:52.680 long story short. On the arena side, we talked to the mccarmick 2523 02:56:52.760 --> 02:56:56.120 lace folks, And when I say we, I mean I just started calling 2524 02:56:56.239 --> 02:57:01.760 people behind my operations teams back. Right, I'm the guy who sells the 2525 02:57:01.840 --> 02:57:05.600 concrete on the show floor. I'm not the guy who handles the rents, 2526 02:57:05.920 --> 02:57:09.520 the rentals or anything like that. So I'm just like trying to force this 2527 02:57:09.639 --> 02:57:13.319 into existence, right by figuring out if it's possible before I put together a 2528 02:57:13.440 --> 02:57:20.559 P and L profit and loss statement for my bosses. So I call around. 2529 02:57:20.680 --> 02:57:26.799 I find out that, you know, because it's it's a non people 2530 02:57:26.840 --> 02:57:28.600 are going to come in and set up on one day. In the second 2531 02:57:28.680 --> 02:57:33.000 day it'll drive revenue. So the rent on the arena is half the cost 2532 02:57:33.120 --> 02:57:37.959 for the first day and the full cost for the second day. And if 2533 02:57:37.000 --> 02:57:39.959 I remember correctly, and I'm almost positive these numbers are right, it was 2534 02:57:41.000 --> 02:57:46.920 seventy five bucks to rent out the arena for a day for loading and fifteen 2535 02:57:46.040 --> 02:57:52.639 grand for the arena rent on top of everything else on our contract for the 2536 02:57:52.799 --> 02:57:56.639 day of the pay per view right where we were going to generate tickets and 2537 02:57:56.680 --> 02:58:03.639 bring people in the door. And if that sounds low to you guys' ears, 2538 02:58:03.799 --> 02:58:07.600 it did to mind too, Like I'm going, seriously seat arena for 2539 02:58:07.879 --> 02:58:11.399 twenty two grand, you know, they're twenty twenty three five or whatever that 2540 02:58:11.479 --> 02:58:16.840 number ends up at. It just didn't register as possible to me, right. 2541 02:58:18.399 --> 02:58:20.520 Obviously there are other costs that are going to become involved, right like 2542 02:58:22.360 --> 02:58:26.120 union laborer and a V and electricity and internet and all of that stuff that 2543 02:58:28.319 --> 02:58:35.479 is ancillary and logistical and stuff. But the actual output cost right that we 2544 02:58:35.600 --> 02:58:39.719 would have to shoulder on our own, that read pop was around twenty three 2545 02:58:39.799 --> 02:58:43.079 grand, right, So no big deal, Like it's not too high a 2546 02:58:43.200 --> 02:58:52.479 number. So armed with this information, I put together a profit and loss 2547 02:58:52.520 --> 02:59:01.799 statement based off of ticket pricing for the last show that they ran in Chicago, 2548 02:59:03.000 --> 02:59:09.159 which was all out in twenty yeah, and that that year at Searcenter. 2549 02:59:09.520 --> 02:59:16.760 So I take the the pricing for the tickets. And generally when you 2550 02:59:16.840 --> 02:59:24.079 do a rev split with anybody that you're partnering with a promotion on it's usually 2551 02:59:24.120 --> 02:59:28.799 eighty twenty eight to the promotion twenty to the promoter, right, which is 2552 02:59:28.879 --> 02:59:31.719 what C tow E two would be in this case, because we're providing the 2553 02:59:31.840 --> 02:59:39.319 venue and you know, helping with marketing and all of that stuff. Based 2554 02:59:39.360 --> 02:59:45.520 off of that and a pretty I think I actually sent you guys an email 2555 02:59:45.600 --> 02:59:50.680 with like the estimates on production and labor and that sort of thing. The 2556 02:59:50.799 --> 02:59:56.159 P and L on our side came out after assuming assuming a seventy five percent 2557 02:59:56.280 --> 03:00:01.239 house, right, assuming a seventy five per house, the number on our 2558 03:00:01.280 --> 03:00:05.840 side came up with us in the black about like twenty two twenty three thousand 2559 03:00:05.879 --> 03:00:11.319 dollars after REV split and everything else presented into my leadership, they're like, 2560 03:00:13.040 --> 03:00:16.600 explore this further. We like the idea of this, let's explore it further. 2561 03:00:18.040 --> 03:00:22.319 So a series of phone calls with with Raff and his team on the 2562 03:00:22.399 --> 03:00:26.920 AW side, they're amenable to the REV split at eighty twenty because we're taking 2563 03:00:26.959 --> 03:00:33.120 care of the building and the REV split only comes however, after the payment 2564 03:00:33.319 --> 03:00:39.639 of all of the the extras, right, the feast for Internet, the 2565 03:00:39.440 --> 03:00:46.479 all of that stuff, the union labor, which is just a gigantic expense, 2566 03:00:46.680 --> 03:00:50.639 and I mean, you know this from I assume from working at MSG 2567 03:00:52.600 --> 03:00:56.159 just it's it's just a massive amount of money you end up going out. 2568 03:00:56.319 --> 03:01:01.280 You know, you're dealing with at least at this building, we were dealing 2569 03:01:01.319 --> 03:01:05.840 with three different unions, you know, like New York Comic Con. It's 2570 03:01:05.920 --> 03:01:16.559 seven, right because you know, from carpenters to audio visual to teamsters whatever. 2571 03:01:16.719 --> 03:01:18.040 But it was three different unions we had to deal with, and the 2572 03:01:18.159 --> 03:01:20.760 labor was high, and it's late on a Saturday night, so they're all 2573 03:01:20.799 --> 03:01:26.360 in overtime, right. But yeah, based on the estimates, everybody was 2574 03:01:26.440 --> 03:01:33.000 happy. We It took weeks and weeks and our legal team and their legal 2575 03:01:33.079 --> 03:01:39.680 team passing the documents back and forth to actually make it happen. But then 2576 03:01:39.760 --> 03:01:50.399 in in early December of twenty nineteen, everything got announced on an episode of 2577 03:01:50.479 --> 03:01:54.120 Dynamite that the show was going you know, AW is going to have a 2578 03:01:54.200 --> 03:02:00.959 booth at the show on the show floor at C two E two where the 2579 03:02:01.040 --> 03:02:07.799 wrestlers would come and do meet and greets out of their booth without, by 2580 03:02:07.840 --> 03:02:11.639 the way, guarantees because they were all going to be there anyway. So 2581 03:02:11.760 --> 03:02:15.840 it yet another way to sell tickets for us. It's just an added like 2582 03:02:15.920 --> 03:02:20.959 you see, it's just like additive at that point. And then the show 2583 03:02:22.040 --> 03:02:26.799 would be on Saturday at the wind Trust Arena, which is attached there to 2584 03:02:26.920 --> 03:02:31.959 McCormick Place. They announced the on sale is the wind Trust, the eight 2585 03:02:31.040 --> 03:02:33.879 thousand seat venue you mentioned, correct, Okay, yeah, same thing, 2586 03:02:35.000 --> 03:02:37.600 got it? Yep, yep, same place. I take full credit for 2587 03:02:37.680 --> 03:02:46.600 them having any relationship there. However, the on sale date is like two 2588 03:02:46.680 --> 03:02:50.399 weeks in the future, so they're you know, if they go on sale 2589 03:02:50.479 --> 03:02:56.000 this date whatever, we're uh, I remember it like it was yesterday. 2590 03:02:56.120 --> 03:03:01.280 We we the company that I work for or does these fan conventions, yes, 2591 03:03:01.360 --> 03:03:03.920 but there's a whole other side of the business that does like B to 2592 03:03:05.000 --> 03:03:11.959 B conventions, so like you know, pharmaceutical stuff or medical equipment or you 2593 03:03:13.040 --> 03:03:18.239 know, hardware, you know the sort of conventions that people just go to 2594 03:03:18.520 --> 03:03:20.680 that you know, you see them with their little dangly things with their names 2595 03:03:20.719 --> 03:03:26.319 on the Yeah. Business to business is business is selling the business. It's 2596 03:03:26.360 --> 03:03:30.239 not the public coming in. Yeah, it's people that are in the industry. 2597 03:03:30.440 --> 03:03:33.159 Look into Hey, you know this is the latest jet stream printer or 2598 03:03:33.159 --> 03:03:37.040 whatever the fucky by ten of them, commit to buying ten of them and 2599 03:03:37.079 --> 03:03:41.079 then yeah, sign this uh this promisory thing that you're gonna buy them and 2600 03:03:41.120 --> 03:03:46.639 then never buy them. Okay, yeah, that's that's that's what the biggest 2601 03:03:46.639 --> 03:03:52.840 part of our company does. And and then you know these little B t 2602 03:03:52.920 --> 03:03:56.159 C shows are just a little bit additive for them. Well, every year 2603 03:03:56.719 --> 03:04:03.000 in December they do this sort of like town hall where everybody gets together and 2604 03:04:03.319 --> 03:04:07.000 you know, the President's club is announced, like this guy sold more than 2605 03:04:07.040 --> 03:04:09.559 anybody else in the company and he gets to go to Cancun and uh, 2606 03:04:09.840 --> 03:04:13.399 you know, hurrah, here's what's happening next year. This happens to be 2607 03:04:13.520 --> 03:04:22.399 the morning that tickets go on sale for wind Trust for Revolution eighty twenty split. 2608 03:04:24.559 --> 03:04:31.799 There's like seventy six or seventy seven hundred seats that are upper grabs before 2609 03:04:31.840 --> 03:04:35.280 production holds are let go, right, Like, we know the inventory, 2610 03:04:35.120 --> 03:04:37.680 we know what the number is going to be. If we hit seventy five 2611 03:04:37.719 --> 03:04:43.040 percent, everybody's happy. The shows sold out in forty five minutes, exactly 2612 03:04:43.120 --> 03:04:46.280 correct. Chris and I. Chris and I were on our phones in the 2613 03:04:46.399 --> 03:04:50.280 back of the room at this town hall like refreshing. You know, the 2614 03:04:50.360 --> 03:04:56.920 little dots on the Ticketmaster thing we're refreshing and watching the dots disappear, right 2615 03:04:56.040 --> 03:05:01.159 and just like looking at each other like holy and like grabbing leadership and we're 2616 03:05:01.200 --> 03:05:05.159 showing them like you see the ship. Can you believe this? Yeah, 2617 03:05:05.239 --> 03:05:09.079 show sold out in forty five minutes. We sold you know, another like 2618 03:05:09.280 --> 03:05:15.440 three or four hundred seats as soon as the uh the holds were released and 2619 03:05:15.680 --> 03:05:20.159 production stuff was set and and the rest is history. Like it it It 2620 03:05:22.200 --> 03:05:26.159 was just really cool and like and and what I keep coming back to, 2621 03:05:26.719 --> 03:05:33.639 and I hope Christian and Scoot you're listening and understand now why I picked this 2622 03:05:33.799 --> 03:05:41.520 show. But it's what's important here is is is that message I think, 2623 03:05:41.600 --> 03:05:46.799 and and that if you don't ask, nothing cool will ever happen to you, 2624 03:05:48.120 --> 03:05:50.079 like and so you know, we were able to make this happen. 2625 03:05:52.079 --> 03:05:54.360 C two E two comes around. The whole teams is there on site. 2626 03:05:54.440 --> 03:06:00.879 We get to meet everybody, you know, they're they're all doing their thing. 2627 03:06:01.159 --> 03:06:07.440 We get a suite at the Wind Trust for our team and you know, 2628 03:06:07.520 --> 03:06:11.319 we get up there and it's all like it's just you know, completely 2629 03:06:11.760 --> 03:06:16.719 teared out and it's just so cool, right like the wall All right, 2630 03:06:16.840 --> 03:06:20.200 let's all right, what what what kind of food would Yeah? Yeah, 2631 03:06:20.319 --> 03:06:28.000 so uh there's a two giant sharcuterie boards right, like just just full of 2632 03:06:28.440 --> 03:06:31.520 of and it was okay, like you know, it wasn't it wasn't the 2633 03:06:31.600 --> 03:06:39.079 best sharcuterie I've ever had, but meatballs, wings, pizza, and sliders, 2634 03:06:41.079 --> 03:06:43.840 that's right, It's perfect. Yeah, it was great. Right. 2635 03:06:43.920 --> 03:06:46.040 So we're up there and and a full, fully stocked bar on top of 2636 03:06:46.120 --> 03:06:50.959 it, right, which is just like all right, works for me. 2637 03:06:52.719 --> 03:06:58.280 And so you know, there's two rows of seats outside of the glass of 2638 03:06:58.399 --> 03:07:03.399 the sweet and then there's three behind it. And so Chris and I are 2639 03:07:03.440 --> 03:07:05.159 watching from the front the whole time, obviously, and like the president of 2640 03:07:05.200 --> 03:07:09.000 the company comes up and he's like like I can't believe, like I've not 2641 03:07:09.159 --> 03:07:18.280 I this is really fucking cool. The wrestling fan among us like like what 2642 03:07:18.799 --> 03:07:20.920 what, Like I you know, I didn't know it was like this, 2643 03:07:22.319 --> 03:07:24.559 Like this is like really I expected like there was going to be, like 2644 03:07:26.600 --> 03:07:28.079 you know, because he's been pretty separated from all this because he's president in 2645 03:07:28.120 --> 03:07:31.840 the company, who cares. But it's like Chris and I are now the 2646 03:07:31.959 --> 03:07:37.719 cool kids in the building because we like wrestling and we made this happen, 2647 03:07:37.360 --> 03:07:41.479 right, Like that doesn't happen? Yeah, savor those moments when you get 2648 03:07:41.520 --> 03:07:48.200 them. Is wrestling, especially in a professional setting. It was without question, 2649 03:07:48.680 --> 03:07:52.000 regardless of the quality of the matches. And I will say this, 2650 03:07:52.239 --> 03:08:00.559 I think the Hangman and and and H Kenny versus the Bucks match so one 2651 03:08:00.600 --> 03:08:05.040 of the better tag team matches I've ever seen. The rest of the card 2652 03:08:05.079 --> 03:08:11.000 I think is largely forgettable, maybe with the accession of MJF and Cody, 2653 03:08:11.719 --> 03:08:18.920 but it was absolutely the best night of my professional life bar none. Wow, 2654 03:08:18.159 --> 03:08:22.280 because it was you know, you see, you know, months and 2655 03:08:22.319 --> 03:08:26.280 months of effort over something that you really didn't think you ever had a shot 2656 03:08:26.399 --> 03:08:30.879 to make make something like that happen, right, Not even so much that 2657 03:08:31.879 --> 03:08:37.120 that like you didn't think you could do it. You didn't think it was 2658 03:08:37.440 --> 03:08:43.120 possible that something like that could happen to you, because in what scenario is 2659 03:08:43.239 --> 03:08:46.399 this a possibility? Right? Like how it's not a question of could you 2660 03:08:46.479 --> 03:08:48.559 pull it off? It's a question of could you ever be given the opportunity 2661 03:08:48.600 --> 03:08:52.879 to pull it off? Right? And so it was it was very cool. 2662 03:08:54.600 --> 03:08:58.440 So what was what was the gate? Oh? Yeah, yeah, 2663 03:08:58.520 --> 03:09:07.319 no, I was getting there so uh about shortly after the second to last 2664 03:09:07.360 --> 03:09:18.440 match. Uh. The uh like rafts assistant and a guy from our team 2665 03:09:18.920 --> 03:09:24.840 that has experience in what's called settlement, and our finance lead and myself we 2666 03:09:26.040 --> 03:09:31.399 go backstage for what's called settlement. Get your visors out, kids, that's 2667 03:09:31.479 --> 03:09:35.000 right. Put put your put your put your wife, put your wife beaters 2668 03:09:35.079 --> 03:09:39.799 on, get your visors out, start fucking lighting cigarettes, and let's get 2669 03:09:39.840 --> 03:09:46.879 to business. Wrestling office. Uh. So we go backstage to the wrestling 2670 03:09:46.959 --> 03:09:58.479 office, Blake, uh, and we go into the room. There's there's 2671 03:09:58.520 --> 03:10:03.639 a guy at a computer. He does not have the little mini calculator with 2672 03:10:03.760 --> 03:10:07.879 the handle on the side and the visor, although as we walked in it 2673 03:10:09.040 --> 03:10:13.760 is exactly what I was imagining. So he's he's looking at the numbers. 2674 03:10:13.840 --> 03:10:20.319 He's seeing they went over a little bit on union labor, this, that 2675 03:10:20.479 --> 03:10:26.559 and the other thing. It ended up our cut ended up lower than we 2676 03:10:26.760 --> 03:10:33.760 expected it to be, and so our accounting lead had their own numbers right, 2677 03:10:33.440 --> 03:10:41.280 and they had to correct the numbers from the aw team raff and their 2678 03:10:41.280 --> 03:10:45.799 accounting side. It was off of about sixty six hundred dollars, which is 2679 03:10:45.879 --> 03:10:48.840 not much. It's whatever, but yeah, the gate that we took in 2680 03:10:48.200 --> 03:10:56.559 that that my team took from the twenty percent of the house after expenses was 2681 03:10:56.760 --> 03:11:03.239 thirty twenty seven hundred and seventeen dollars to thirty two thousand is twenty percent of 2682 03:11:03.840 --> 03:11:05.840 the house. So the total houses sometimes do the math. So what what 2683 03:11:05.879 --> 03:11:13.280 would what would the total house be? Uh eight sixteen twenty four two forty 2684 03:11:13.360 --> 03:11:16.920 two, two seventy seven two eighty two hundred eighty thousand dollars gate for the 2685 03:11:16.959 --> 03:11:22.360 ship? Wow? Pretty good, man, Pretty good. Yeah, it 2686 03:11:22.520 --> 03:11:28.280 was It's just you know, we we went back to our seats. The 2687 03:11:28.360 --> 03:11:31.280 show ended. They were tearing down the ring. Uh. We took it 2688 03:11:31.399 --> 03:11:35.680 like a group photo in front of the ring with the the ropes all kind 2689 03:11:35.719 --> 03:11:43.879 of dangling m and then Delando Chris, he looks at me and he's like, 2690 03:11:43.159 --> 03:11:50.000 you want to try to go backstage? I was like yeah, So 2691 03:11:50.600 --> 03:11:54.559 we just went backstage. We walked down, you know, the room's kind 2692 03:11:54.559 --> 03:11:58.680 of clearing out. I mean, I guess at that point it was just 2693 03:11:58.799 --> 03:12:01.200 like, well, we bought the building, it's ours. We can go 2694 03:12:01.239 --> 03:12:07.000 wherever the fuck we want, right right, So we walked down stage side 2695 03:12:07.360 --> 03:12:16.479 and end up backstage, and I remember distinctly, h Jericho walking by and 2696 03:12:16.719 --> 03:12:22.639 his head was just like a bloody hamburger meat, this disgusting mess. I 2697 03:12:22.680 --> 03:12:28.319 remember that distinctly. But we turned the corner and there's Dana and this Matt's 2698 03:12:28.399 --> 03:12:35.520 wife, and she has I've got pictures and everything they document this, but 2699 03:12:35.680 --> 03:12:39.559 she has the two. As you're watching the show, have you guys watched 2700 03:12:39.559 --> 03:12:43.760 the show already? Internet? Yeah? Okay, so as you were watching 2701 03:12:43.840 --> 03:12:46.559 the show, I don't know if you saw, but turnbuckles in the two 2702 03:12:46.639 --> 03:12:50.200 corners and two of the corners in the middle turnbuckle they say C two E 2703 03:12:50.280 --> 03:12:56.239 two on them. She had it arranged that they took the those buckles off, 2704 03:12:56.879 --> 03:13:00.639 one for each of us, and she ran them back stage before we 2705 03:13:00.680 --> 03:13:05.159 got a chance to get back there, and had the entire all the entire 2706 03:13:05.239 --> 03:13:11.159 all of the talent signed the turnbuckles. So so we have, you know, 2707 03:13:11.360 --> 03:13:15.399 in shadow boxes at each of our houses, the the C two E 2708 03:13:15.479 --> 03:13:20.680 two theme turnbuckles from the ring that night, signatures and whatnot. So yeah, 2709 03:13:20.719 --> 03:13:22.879 man, like it. The reason I wanted to do the show, 2710 03:13:24.000 --> 03:13:26.639 now, don't get me wrong, Like the last time I bid heavily on 2711 03:13:26.719 --> 03:13:31.000 a show, you'll remember was Summer Slim ninety four, which was the first 2712 03:13:31.000 --> 03:13:33.840 pay per view that I ever went to. Sure, yeah that was you 2713 03:13:35.159 --> 03:13:37.440 were saving up for that one and then someone beat you to the punch they 2714 03:13:37.520 --> 03:13:41.879 did, indeed, And this was always the number two in my head, 2715 03:13:41.959 --> 03:13:45.920 just because I didn't know if I would ever get a chance to tell the 2716 03:13:46.000 --> 03:13:50.559 story of this, and how how really cool to be able to be a 2717 03:13:50.600 --> 03:13:54.399 part of something like that was for sure, and how how honestly it probably 2718 03:13:56.479 --> 03:13:58.440 got me to the point of realizing that I want absolutely nothing to do with 2719 03:13:58.520 --> 03:14:05.639 working wrestling industry, because like, live events is hard enough doing this on 2720 03:14:05.680 --> 03:14:09.840 a weekly basis, Like no, absolutely, it's forty it's forty eight live 2721 03:14:09.879 --> 03:14:15.120 events a year. Absolutely not. It's it's a rare breed. That's why 2722 03:14:15.239 --> 03:14:20.000 like your Gary Jesters stay employed and and again you're your raft Morphy's and and 2723 03:14:20.319 --> 03:14:22.440 uh Ed Cohen was such a legend in the WWE for years. It's like, 2724 03:14:24.159 --> 03:14:30.000 uh, what's his name? Oh god, oh my god, I 2725 03:14:30.040 --> 03:14:33.559 feel so badly forgetting his name. The zame breslof you know, Oh, 2726 03:14:33.879 --> 03:14:37.479 these guys, these are rare breed of cats that are just like constantly booking 2727 03:14:37.600 --> 03:14:43.159 towns and buildings, and you know, like they leave like Zane Breslof was 2728 03:14:43.239 --> 03:14:48.040 famous for leaving when the first match started because his work was done. You 2729 03:14:48.120 --> 03:14:50.920 know, he didn't even sit there to soak in the building he helped fill 2730 03:14:50.000 --> 03:14:54.239 for ww DCW. He just wants trust because he's onto the next It's just 2731 03:14:54.520 --> 03:14:58.639 looks like a you have to have like the certain like rush mentality to do 2732 03:14:58.760 --> 03:15:01.159 that job. Very few can do it at the pace pro wrestling demands. 2733 03:15:03.040 --> 03:15:07.079 It's really interesting too, because I you talk about, you know, soaking 2734 03:15:07.120 --> 03:15:09.760 it in and enjoying the fruits of your labor to some degree, and I 2735 03:15:11.280 --> 03:15:16.040 and I don't know if this was the last time, but it was pretty 2736 03:15:16.120 --> 03:15:22.079 close to it. I'm sure because it used to be that when regardless of 2737 03:15:22.559 --> 03:15:26.600 where I was on my fanom, if you walk into a building and you 2738 03:15:28.000 --> 03:15:30.920 you walk into the bowl right and you look down and you see the ring, 2739 03:15:31.280 --> 03:15:35.719 there was always that sort of sucking in of your breath where it was 2740 03:15:35.799 --> 03:15:39.200 just like, oh, okay, yeah, this is awesome, right right. 2741 03:15:39.600 --> 03:15:43.760 I don't I don't have that anymore. Like when I go to a 2742 03:15:43.840 --> 03:15:46.440 show like there's no its I was like, okay, yeah, this is 2743 03:15:46.639 --> 03:15:50.559 that again. And I don't know if this was the last time I had 2744 03:15:50.600 --> 03:15:54.360 that because it was like mine in a way or not, but like it 2745 03:15:54.559 --> 03:16:00.879 certainly it was around this time where it kind of disappeared. That's sad. 2746 03:16:01.760 --> 03:16:03.959 Yeah, that's why I like. I like being in the audio. I 2747 03:16:03.040 --> 03:16:07.079 like being in the audience, you know, like for anything, not just 2748 03:16:07.200 --> 03:16:11.239 for pro wrestling, because it's like, that's a feeling that's that's not that's 2749 03:16:11.319 --> 03:16:16.040 not really something you should relinquish lightly, you know, to turn your passion 2750 03:16:16.159 --> 03:16:20.239 into something that feels so much like work and so sort of you know, 2751 03:16:20.680 --> 03:16:22.399 just to show up at the building and feel nothing. You know. Yeah, 2752 03:16:22.680 --> 03:16:26.559 it's just like I don't want to get there as a wrestling fem if 2753 03:16:26.559 --> 03:16:28.760 you've got a job in the business that has to happen in three months. 2754 03:16:28.879 --> 03:16:31.520 Oh you you, Oh, you have to I think, I think, 2755 03:16:31.920 --> 03:16:37.120 And that's you know, it's it's tragic, right, it's a tragedy, 2756 03:16:37.319 --> 03:16:39.840 but you have you kind of have to let go, and if you don't, 2757 03:16:39.559 --> 03:16:48.120 then you you become the you know, as timely as this reference might 2758 03:16:48.200 --> 03:16:50.120 be, you become the thirty six year old who dies of heart failure, 2759 03:16:50.319 --> 03:16:54.920 right, like, because you give yourself, you give too much of yourself 2760 03:16:54.959 --> 03:16:56.639 and maybe that's not what happened in that particular case, but I think it's 2761 03:16:56.680 --> 03:17:01.399 the same, the same thought possible plea. So well, what do you 2762 03:17:01.440 --> 03:17:03.319 member is the biggest pop of the night if you watch the show from front 2763 03:17:03.319 --> 03:17:16.040 to back, I think when when when Hangman hit the when that match finished, 2764 03:17:16.120 --> 03:17:18.959 when the Hangman and Bucks match finished, the crowd was so it was 2765 03:17:20.319 --> 03:17:24.600 so that crowd was so loud during that match that it had like people who 2766 03:17:28.200 --> 03:17:35.280 made so much fun of me and Chris throughout the process of this, their 2767 03:17:35.360 --> 03:17:39.200 mouths were agape. They were totally in. And that's the game, right 2768 03:17:39.280 --> 03:17:43.280 when I say when I say I think it's one of the better matches I've 2769 03:17:43.319 --> 03:17:48.280 ever seen live, certainly, but tags matches generally, all you have to 2770 03:17:48.360 --> 03:17:54.600 do is watch the people that were watching that had never watched, or maybe 2771 03:17:54.920 --> 03:17:58.520 hadn't watched in twenty years or had no conception, but we're you know, 2772 03:18:00.079 --> 03:18:03.879 Maud's gay, complete focus, just like could not turn away from it. 2773 03:18:05.200 --> 03:18:07.600 And I think that's all you have to all you have to see to to 2774 03:18:09.079 --> 03:18:13.440 know that it's something that that is beyond right. It goes beyond the scope 2775 03:18:13.479 --> 03:18:20.879 of of entertainment at that point, and I think there's there's still some of 2776 03:18:22.000 --> 03:18:26.959 that in the live spectacle of all of this, but like we're losing most 2777 03:18:26.000 --> 03:18:33.639 of it as we go. I mean, I'm it's really funny because the 2778 03:18:33.760 --> 03:18:37.360 relationship that I built, that that Chris and I built with with a W 2779 03:18:37.559 --> 03:18:43.239 as a result of this was you know, pretty long lasting. Obviously. 2780 03:18:43.840 --> 03:18:46.719 The other thing that I you know, I don't know how much you guys 2781 03:18:46.760 --> 03:18:50.120 are going to talk about in the run up, but this show took place 2782 03:18:50.200 --> 03:18:56.879 on February twenty ninth, twenty twenty. Like I said earlier, we had 2783 03:18:56.920 --> 03:19:03.239 about ninety some were between nineteen ninety five thousand turnstile attendees of this show on 2784 03:19:03.440 --> 03:19:11.319 this weekend. I thank God or whoever every day that that show wasn't a 2785 03:19:11.319 --> 03:19:15.239 super spreader, Yes, because a week and a half, a week and 2786 03:19:15.280 --> 03:19:18.879 a half later we were all working from home. Yeah. On the broadcast, 2787 03:19:18.959 --> 03:19:22.799 they're promoting the Salt Lake City Dynamite, which I always remember as the 2788 03:19:22.879 --> 03:19:30.959 last one before the lockdown. Yeah, but let me talk about let me 2789 03:19:31.040 --> 03:19:33.079 talk about blood and Guts a little bit. They talk about blood and Guts 2790 03:19:33.159 --> 03:19:37.959 too, which was which was postponed. Yeah, yep, uh we uh. 2791 03:19:39.479 --> 03:19:41.959 The the relationship had grown to the point where, you know, we 2792 03:19:43.120 --> 03:19:52.680 were having discussions with AW at the time of my company professionally doing like a 2793 03:19:54.000 --> 03:19:58.719 fan fest for them around Double or Nothing in May because the relation you know 2794 03:19:58.879 --> 03:20:03.479 earlier like earlier that weekend, we all my leadership, their leadership all met 2795 03:20:03.559 --> 03:20:07.559 to talk about the potential of doing that, and obviously that fell apart very 2796 03:20:07.639 --> 03:20:13.840 quickly because you know Pandemic, But Chris and I kept a relationship there, 2797 03:20:13.959 --> 03:20:16.760 and you know, we went and helped them out on a contract basis for 2798 03:20:16.879 --> 03:20:22.040 some of their fan fests as the years years of rolled on, most recently 2799 03:20:22.120 --> 03:20:24.559 even this year in May and Vegas or Double or Nothing, we helped them 2800 03:20:26.360 --> 03:20:31.600 put their fan fest together with their merch team and stuff and just as an 2801 03:20:31.680 --> 03:20:37.920 aside, and it's allowed us to have a lot more sort of view into 2802 03:20:37.399 --> 03:20:46.280 what happens behind the scenes and backstage and being there. And I'll never forget 2803 03:20:46.360 --> 03:20:50.799 this a fun little tidbit for you guys. We were at the first show, 2804 03:20:52.120 --> 03:20:58.000 the first pay per view post Pandemic, which was I believe Revolution in 2805 03:20:58.200 --> 03:21:03.040 twenty twenty one at Daily's place. It was the first time they had a 2806 03:21:03.120 --> 03:21:09.239 crowd back at Daily's place, and so they ran a fan fest adjacent to 2807 03:21:09.760 --> 03:21:15.639 the pay per view, and we were backstage, and I believe it was 2808 03:21:16.719 --> 03:21:24.239 it was the Dynamite before the weekend, and we're kind of just standing there 2809 03:21:24.280 --> 03:21:28.200 and we're soaking it all in, right, And you guys know, I'm 2810 03:21:28.239 --> 03:21:33.280 a pretty big guy. I'm six five, like three fifty three sixty and 2811 03:21:33.719 --> 03:21:37.639 my buddy Chris is also very tall. And we're standing around and nobody knows 2812 03:21:37.680 --> 03:21:41.239 who we are, right, We're just back there like trying not to get 2813 03:21:41.280 --> 03:21:48.760 anybody's way. And there's this big guy, like like like as tall as 2814 03:21:48.840 --> 03:21:52.719 me, really builds up tattoos all up and down his arms, he's got 2815 03:21:52.799 --> 03:21:56.959 some facial hair, and I don't I have no idea who this person is. 2816 03:21:58.120 --> 03:22:00.840 So which is weird because you know, I've been watching the product at 2817 03:22:00.840 --> 03:22:03.719 the time because I was, you know, getting to be a part of 2818 03:22:03.760 --> 03:22:07.520 it to some degree. And he walks up to Chris and I and he 2819 03:22:07.639 --> 03:22:09.360 looks us up and down and he goes, so, who the fuck are 2820 03:22:09.360 --> 03:22:16.799 you? That's exactly correct. Welcome to the business, yes, And and 2821 03:22:16.280 --> 03:22:20.159 we looked at each other and we're like, we're just we're here to help 2822 03:22:20.200 --> 03:22:22.159 with fan fest. That's all. Like, no he's like, oh, 2823 03:22:22.280 --> 03:22:26.559 I thought you I thought you were you were you were extras. That's the 2824 03:22:26.600 --> 03:22:31.719 word that they're used back stage for the for jobbers now, yes, yes, 2825 03:22:33.799 --> 03:22:35.840 and and we're like, no, nope, not at all, just 2826 03:22:37.079 --> 03:22:41.319 just here to help. Well, we realized later that night it's Lucasaurus without 2827 03:22:41.360 --> 03:22:48.799 his fucking man wow. And he's a real dipshit too, And I hope 2828 03:22:48.879 --> 03:22:50.959 and Daddy Magic you can tell him that it's fine. You can tell him 2829 03:22:52.000 --> 03:22:54.559 that I think he's a dip shit dip because of the attitude he gave you. 2830 03:22:54.680 --> 03:22:56.000 Or is there more Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, I don't 2831 03:22:56.440 --> 03:23:00.920 whatever. No, you know, a lot of the guys have been really 2832 03:23:00.920 --> 03:23:03.799 cool though, Like it's it's we just kept kind of looking at each other 2833 03:23:03.399 --> 03:23:07.959 and every time we're in that situation, just like this is stupid. We 2834 03:23:07.959 --> 03:23:11.879 shouldn't be here, This is just a dumb like Davis and butthead and the 2835 03:23:11.920 --> 03:23:16.120 next stage Yeah right, yeah, exactly exactly right. But no, it's 2836 03:23:16.200 --> 03:23:20.520 it's it's been really cool. I wanted to share the story about how this 2837 03:23:20.680 --> 03:23:22.840 went and like, you know, and maybe that's ego, but you know 2838 03:23:22.959 --> 03:23:26.959 what, fuck you I spent dude, don't like it, dude, it's 2839 03:23:26.959 --> 03:23:30.680 all about ego. Yeah, I mean, you know, if we're going 2840 03:23:30.719 --> 03:23:35.680 to talk about more contemporary wrestling, we might as well learn something about how 2841 03:23:35.959 --> 03:23:41.559 the business works today and you know, present something additive to the understanding. 2842 03:23:41.760 --> 03:23:45.440 You know, I think people see a contemporary show on the dock if they 2843 03:23:45.520 --> 03:23:48.559 just think, oh, look there's gonna deep dive this, like they're just 2844 03:23:48.600 --> 03:23:50.440 gonna do a match by match call of this, and so like, yeah, 2845 03:23:50.440 --> 03:23:52.840 we're going to do that, of course, that's yeah, it's the 2846 03:23:52.879 --> 03:23:58.680 mission. But we're adding to the understanding of it by by bringing perspectives that 2847 03:24:00.159 --> 03:24:03.360 otherwise, you know, wouldn't necessarily have a platform or or a platform that 2848 03:24:03.680 --> 03:24:05.879 that reaches as far as ours does. So oh no, I was I 2849 03:24:07.040 --> 03:24:09.559 kind of knew this about kind of your background already, and I was like, 2850 03:24:09.600 --> 03:24:11.120 I know where he's going with this. You though, it's it's it 2851 03:24:11.200 --> 03:24:13.760 might be an athemaut of certain members of the Solar System to see it, 2852 03:24:13.879 --> 03:24:18.360 you know, on their screens. I'm like, I understand what we're adding 2853 03:24:18.440 --> 03:24:22.360 here. So no, no, uh, no need for apologies at all. 2854 03:24:22.079 --> 03:24:26.760 Yeah, I certainly I my first instinct when I saw the Twitter, 2855 03:24:26.840 --> 03:24:28.360 so I kind of blow up. Was I sent you back an email, 2856 03:24:28.360 --> 03:24:31.680 It's like, do I need like, I'll change my pick. I don't 2857 03:24:31.719 --> 03:24:35.760 want people pissed wavered I did. I didn't. You know why because I'm 2858 03:24:35.799 --> 03:24:41.040 a nice fucking guy, right, That's why. That's why I see see 2859 03:24:41.079 --> 03:24:46.280 you're all right, See we I thrive on pissing people off. So it's 2860 03:24:46.319 --> 03:24:52.040 fine by me because you know, like, as much as we will lead 2861 03:24:52.120 --> 03:24:54.920 you all in the Solar system to the Promised Land, as much as you 2862 03:24:56.000 --> 03:24:58.719 can trust your co chairman to land on the fundamental truths about this business, 2863 03:25:00.000 --> 03:25:05.520 regardless of who it rankles, regardless of who it sends into an existential tizzy. 2864 03:25:05.559 --> 03:25:09.520 At the end of the day, we're also well aware of the fact 2865 03:25:09.680 --> 03:25:13.799 that we'll we'll never be able to know the best rocks to turn over in 2866 03:25:13.879 --> 03:25:18.479 their entirety. There's so much the Hopper has done in terms of, you 2867 03:25:18.520 --> 03:25:22.879 know, secrets of pro wrestling, in terms of Black Saturday, speaking of 2868 03:25:22.920 --> 03:25:26.000 our man, like even the Bashe of the Beach thing. I've talked about 2869 03:25:26.000 --> 03:25:28.360 this, the Bashe of the Beach two thousand stuff, which Dark Side of 2870 03:25:28.360 --> 03:25:31.719 the Ring just leveraged that we did. It was it was my paranoia that 2871 03:25:31.760 --> 03:25:35.040 one day a Hopper person is going to pick this and I'm not going to 2872 03:25:35.079 --> 03:25:39.719 be ready with the fucking documents that pushed me. So it's like that's the 2873 03:25:39.799 --> 03:25:43.040 magic of the hopper is It's like, it's it's almost liberating to say, 2874 03:25:43.399 --> 03:25:46.479 you tell us, because there's stuff out there that we're not going to land 2875 03:25:46.559 --> 03:25:50.479 on if left to our own devices. And you know, we did fucking 2876 03:25:50.719 --> 03:25:54.360 six years or whatever it was of our own devices after that first Patreon listener 2877 03:25:54.440 --> 03:25:58.799 request series, Right, yeah, we landed sounds some brilliant stuff from the 2878 03:26:00.120 --> 03:26:03.120 DA Journey of the World Class Journey star Cast, WRESTLEMANI all the rest. 2879 03:26:03.600 --> 03:26:09.959 But I and and you know, this would not be a gay discussion with 2880 03:26:11.200 --> 03:26:16.040 the last fan boys if he didn't blow you heartily before he let you go. 2881 03:26:18.040 --> 03:26:22.440 I and I've told you guys this separately via text message, you know, 2882 03:26:22.959 --> 03:26:31.600 or Twitter message or whatever. But the TNH stuff, like and I 2883 03:26:31.680 --> 03:26:33.200 know you've heard it from multiple sources already, so this is not going to 2884 03:26:33.239 --> 03:26:39.760 come as any any sort of major revelation for you. But the beauty of 2885 03:26:39.920 --> 03:26:43.840 that was, especially for those of us that had absolutely no interest at the 2886 03:26:43.879 --> 03:26:52.479 time in watching TNA or ever watching TNA, is that how much it it 2887 03:26:54.920 --> 03:27:07.760 It absolutely justified and made made real who who haul Cogan is? The the 2888 03:27:07.319 --> 03:27:13.600 the incredible research that you guys did, and the just how deep he went 2889 03:27:13.760 --> 03:27:20.559 with all of this was like it it may be my favorite of your projects, 2890 03:27:20.120 --> 03:27:28.719 like and for it to be higher than world class is pretty fucking impressive 2891 03:27:28.200 --> 03:27:33.719 because that work was incredible. But this is just it's so untapped and it's 2892 03:27:33.760 --> 03:27:39.079 so I think it's so relevant, especially to a certain age bracket, my 2893 03:27:39.399 --> 03:27:45.520 age bracket, those people that had haul Cogan bed sheets. Yes, it's 2894 03:27:45.559 --> 03:27:48.479 just it was incredible work and I'm really thankful that you guys put it together. 2895 03:27:48.639 --> 03:27:52.040 And now I'm really interested to hear what you guys think. And I'm 2896 03:27:52.079 --> 03:27:56.920 sure you'll address it at some point of this new Hogan shit with what is 2897 03:27:58.040 --> 03:28:05.760 clear cognitive decline. But I can't. I can't really call it anything else 2898 03:28:05.760 --> 03:28:09.399 because nothing else makes sense, not even him trying to lie about things. 2899 03:28:09.479 --> 03:28:15.879 There's there's clearly something cognitively wrong. Serendipity is incredible, it really is, 2900 03:28:16.440 --> 03:28:22.920 and you know that this magazine is something special. The true the true story 2901 03:28:22.000 --> 03:28:26.399 one, the true story, the unbelievable true story that the keyboord of there 2902 03:28:26.479 --> 03:28:31.639 is unbelievable available next to Woman's World and a checkout line near you. Oh 2903 03:28:31.799 --> 03:28:35.879 my god, hey, I bought. At the moment I fucking saw it, 2904 03:28:35.399 --> 03:28:39.040 I was like, what is this fucking nineteen ninety two? Give me 2905 03:28:39.159 --> 03:28:45.719 that fucking thing. Thank you both very much. This was awesome. I 2906 03:28:46.000 --> 03:28:50.319 really appreciate the time and the platform and everything you guys do is you know, 2907 03:28:50.879 --> 03:28:52.319 and if there's anything I can do for you guys going forward, don't 2908 03:28:52.479 --> 03:28:56.399 estate it's wonderful. Well, Gabe, thanks for joining us and bring it 2909 03:28:56.479 --> 03:29:01.280 on members of the Solar System. Let this service another proofpoint for the Hopper. 2910 03:29:01.719 --> 03:29:05.799 There is just we relish the chance for you to sell us on something 2911 03:29:05.920 --> 03:29:09.200 we would never cover. I mean, if the Hopper is going to do 2912 03:29:09.879 --> 03:29:13.600 if if the Hopper is to reach its true potential, it is to put 2913 03:29:13.680 --> 03:29:16.280 things in front of us that we otherwise wouldn't think to go at ourselves and 2914 03:29:16.760 --> 03:29:20.120 at place. If if you win, if you have the resources and the 2915 03:29:20.200 --> 03:29:24.319 passion to win, don't don't hesitate to pick the show that you want. 2916 03:29:24.440 --> 03:29:26.600 Of course, we're always going to defer to your taste and your preference for 2917 03:29:26.680 --> 03:29:31.799 it, but don't sleep on the possibility that you know you could you could 2918 03:29:31.840 --> 03:29:37.000 have us do something and learn something that we otherwise would would never tell ourselves. 2919 03:29:37.079 --> 03:29:39.280 We ought to about this uh, this wacky business. I mean, 2920 03:29:41.079 --> 03:29:43.000 Jesus Christ. We end up talking to Eddie Anddelman because of the Hopper one 2921 03:29:43.040 --> 03:29:48.559 time, I know exactly, and fucking Mike Lynch remember when he said remember 2922 03:29:50.239 --> 03:29:56.440 remember he said Don Morocco is from Everett. Yes, so awesome, And 2923 03:29:56.479 --> 03:30:00.440 then yeah, and and then thanks to Gabe and and and Mike there in 2924 03:30:00.520 --> 03:30:03.559 that case, you know, we learned that there are carneys and worlds other 2925 03:30:03.639 --> 03:30:07.200 than pro wrestling, and in fact sometimes even gets right. Oh for sure, 2926 03:30:07.159 --> 03:30:11.280 that's another podcast, But we can quit you. We'll get there one 2927 03:30:11.319 --> 03:30:15.559 day, because we're gonna keep the We're gonna keep the lines of communication open, 2928 03:30:15.639 --> 03:30:16.639 to say the very least. So Gabe, thanks for joining us, 2929 03:30:16.680 --> 03:30:20.639 and thanks for this installment of the Hopper. We'll talk again soon. Cheers, boys,