1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:05,679 This is London Calling, London Calling. What I think should have happened yesterday 2 00:00:05,879 --> 00:00:10,199 should have been Nichola Sturgeon been suspended by the SMP because she is now under 3 00:00:10,279 --> 00:00:14,679 police investigation. And of course Nicola Surgeon would have suspended Nichola Sturgeon because when 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,600 she was leader of the party she suspended a number of SMP politicians who were 5 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:23,239 under investigation by the police. And the fact that hums Yusuf has refused to 6 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:31,800 do this shows how weak he is in the role as SMP leader. Welcome 7 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:37,000 to London Calling with me James Dunning Part and my very good friend mister Tyby 8 00:00:37,039 --> 00:00:40,759 Young. Now, lots of our listeners are going to be thinking there's going 9 00:00:40,799 --> 00:00:44,759 to be a massive mummy and Daddy fight this week and they've been really looking 10 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:48,159 forward to are the ones who read Twitter anyway. But before we move on 11 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:53,200 to our fight, how's how's your week been? Not too bad? Quite 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:01:00,759 busy, so lots of events last week and climaxing on Saturday. Weird Do 13 00:01:00,799 --> 00:01:03,240 you want to hear about that sort of thing? Tabs just keep partick your 14 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:07,920 events. Really, I was just talking about my event, Sir James. 15 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:14,959 But on Saturday night we had the first and one of only two performances of 16 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:19,840 The Lockdown Live in which I interviewed Isabelle Oak Shot in the Events space at 17 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:27,359 Unheard in Westminster about how she came to collaborate with Matt Hancock writing the Pandemic 18 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:33,840 Diaries, at what point he decided to turn over over one hundred thousand WhatsApp 19 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,200 messages that are on his phone from the pandemic, and at what point she 20 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:42,359 then decided to hand them over to the telegraph. And we also had a 21 00:01:42,359 --> 00:01:47,480 cup of actors, someone playing Boris and someone playing Hancock, reading out some 22 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:53,040 of the more embarrassing amusing bits from the WhatsApp messages, and it was about 23 00:01:53,079 --> 00:01:57,200 there. We sort of It was seven thirties and nine thirty with a fifteen 24 00:01:57,200 --> 00:02:01,200 minute interval, lots of Q and and actually it went pretty well and people 25 00:02:01,480 --> 00:02:06,319 did find the actors reading out the messages pretty in music mean, some of 26 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:08,360 them aren't pretty funny, but the format seemed to work quite well. And 27 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:15,719 we're doing it again at the Hippodrome on Tuesday, So tomorrow, if you're 28 00:02:15,719 --> 00:02:19,400 listening to this, so how many how many how many seats at the Hippodrome 29 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:23,159 There are two hundred and eighty on sale, and we so far sold exactly 30 00:02:23,199 --> 00:02:27,360 two hundred and fifty, so there are still some seats left, but not 31 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,960 many. And if people didn't buy one, hold on generally get to the 32 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,560 critical bit, James. If anyone is interested in buying a ticket for to 33 00:02:32,599 --> 00:02:38,360 see Isabelle and I on stage and the actors on Tuesday night, there are 34 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:40,719 any twenty five quid pretty good value for a two hour show in the West 35 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:45,919 End, And they can do that by going to event bright dot com and 36 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:52,400 searching for lockdown files live okay, and did you did you go out drinking 37 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:54,639 with your crowd afterwards? How did it work? We did? We had 38 00:02:54,639 --> 00:03:01,120 a kind of We had a drinks reception beforehand at Unheard and then a dinner 39 00:03:01,319 --> 00:03:07,919 for fifty people afterwards, also at Unheard. And how did you because these 40 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:13,360 are also social issues, aren't they vital details? How do you keep everyone 41 00:03:13,439 --> 00:03:17,280 happy? I mean fifty people that they all get to sit next to you 42 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:22,360 or isabel So how do you deal with hords of the people? Well, 43 00:03:22,439 --> 00:03:27,680 the people on the outer limits cope. At the drinks reception, we made 44 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:31,719 sure we got round and talked to everybody who bought a drinks ticket. And 45 00:03:31,759 --> 00:03:38,240 then at the dinner afterwards, we got round a bit and at the end, 46 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:43,520 before Isabel left, she got up and we answered a few more questions 47 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,560 at the sort of front of the restaurant. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 48 00:03:45,639 --> 00:03:51,240 yeah. Because the reason I'm curious is because I mean, I do 49 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:57,520 these these events occasionally as well. I totally love my the people who come, 50 00:03:57,639 --> 00:04:00,680 and what I find is well because almost by definition that they are a 51 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:05,599 self selecting audience. So the people who are into me into the things that 52 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:10,919 I'm into, So one always has really great conversations, and I want to 53 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,240 meet them all. But the problem is that, I mean, like, 54 00:04:14,879 --> 00:04:17,199 the last event was nine hundred people and you can't I mean, how long 55 00:04:17,199 --> 00:04:21,639 would it take to talk to them all in a do some of them express 56 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:27,560 disappointment that they didn't get to well yeah, so for example, um, 57 00:04:27,759 --> 00:04:31,879 we all repaired to the pub um, and some people hadn't got the word 58 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,560 about which which pub it was, and they felt lifted in one chap. 59 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:44,759 I think it had flown over from um ah oh um, the place where 60 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,360 where saw us tried to stage a color revolution M what's it called? Um 61 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,879 and failed? Ukraine? No no, no, no, no, he 62 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:59,319 succeeded there. You mean you mean Belarus, Belarus Belarus? Yeah, yeah, 63 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:02,519 um so so obviously I felt a very very very very very guilty guilty 64 00:05:02,519 --> 00:05:06,519 about that. But I had I had a sort of mini mini event, 65 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,160 a mini taste of the thing I love, which is being with these people 66 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:15,160 at the weekend. It's the highlight of my week. I went to You 67 00:05:15,199 --> 00:05:17,879 probably don't know Abby Roberts because because she's part of my world, and you 68 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,879 know, and your your kind of in normal world, but Abby Roberts is 69 00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:27,240 a is a big thing in my world. She's a comedian and she's very 70 00:05:27,759 --> 00:05:30,920 what we might call red pilled or awake whatever. And she had had a 71 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:36,959 party in a pub actually not far from you, not far from you, 72 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,279 um, the brook Green. Oh yeah, that isn't too far. Brook 73 00:05:42,319 --> 00:05:45,360 Green is not far, is it? Um? And it was this pub, 74 00:05:45,519 --> 00:05:48,680 this sort of anti lockdown pub. It was called the Keep. And 75 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:57,639 yeah, it was great and really good nosh and just it was really wonderful 76 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:02,519 going to a party where you you that whoever you spoke to was going to 77 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:09,600 be really really interesting and an on side and would not make you feel like 78 00:06:09,639 --> 00:06:12,600 a weirdo, would make me feel like you know, I'm with my people 79 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:17,040 so pretty much, not everyone actually, because I did encounter one one person 80 00:06:17,079 --> 00:06:20,199 who loved space and was very disappointed when I told her that space didn't it 81 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:27,079 probably didn't exist. But most people would be down with the idea that the 82 00:06:27,079 --> 00:06:30,639 moon landings were a joke, didn't happen, stuff like that, So you 83 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,959 don't need to kind of explain your terms or set out to shock people like 84 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:40,920 like like you might if you were me at a normal party, right and 85 00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,360 it was really lovely, a very very nice change to be among my people, 86 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:49,360 right right, Well, that sounds nice. Yeah, I guess yet 87 00:06:49,439 --> 00:06:57,240 that that that there was a similar atmosphere at this event I helped organize at 88 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,759 Unheard. Most people there were pretty empathetic, some of them who were long 89 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:05,120 standing readers of first Lockdown Skeptics, another Daily Skeptic, quite a few London 90 00:07:05,199 --> 00:07:11,439 Calling listeners there. One thing that slightly worries me about meeting people who are 91 00:07:11,519 --> 00:07:15,199 who are sort of very appreciative of the fact that you know, I was 92 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:20,680 a lockdown skeptic from quite an early stage and set up Lockdown Skeptics is that 93 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,040 they might just be coming to say thank you for having you know, as 94 00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:29,199 a one off, and actually it might be difficult to kind of fill an 95 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,639 auditorium again with another event, because a lot of the people there are people 96 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:39,360 who kind of you feel are coming because they want to express their thanks for 97 00:07:39,439 --> 00:07:44,399 what you've done, not because they're particularly interested in the event you're staging on 98 00:07:44,439 --> 00:07:46,519 that particular night. And my I mean great that they want to do that, 99 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,959 and you know, lovely of them, but my worry is that they 100 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,319 might they might not do it more than what either they might not want to 101 00:07:51,319 --> 00:07:54,839 come back and do it again, so it might be that I wouldn't be 102 00:07:54,839 --> 00:08:01,199 able to repeat the experience. I My my take on that, certainly for 103 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:07,199 me, is I hope that really people are not coming to see me mainly 104 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:13,879 although I am bloody great, I'm quite entertaining, but that they're really coming 105 00:08:13,439 --> 00:08:18,839 to meet all the other people there because for the reasons I've just described. 106 00:08:18,839 --> 00:08:22,759 With Abbes's party, you're among your people, and it's great and it's a 107 00:08:22,759 --> 00:08:26,279 great draw because lots of there are lots of people around the country who feel 108 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,759 very lonely and because they're surrounded by people who don't understand the world and the 109 00:08:31,759 --> 00:08:37,840 way that they do, and they need it's great being among their own. 110 00:08:37,919 --> 00:08:41,159 So I think I've got that advantage over you, possibly that I can't imagine 111 00:08:41,159 --> 00:08:46,559 that people who come to Toby events are going to be thinking nobody understands me, 112 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:50,399 only Toby's crowd. No, that is absolutely a very common theme, 113 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,600 James. It sounds almost exactly the same. Numerous people came up to me 114 00:08:54,639 --> 00:09:00,799 on Saturday night and said what they really valued about lockdowns optics, as well 115 00:09:00,879 --> 00:09:05,879 as listening to London Calling, was realizing they weren't alone, that they weren't 116 00:09:05,919 --> 00:09:09,960 insane after all, that there were other people out there who were as skeptical 117 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:15,919 of the government's pandemic response as they were feeling. We had this couple from 118 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:20,039 that had come They hadn't come all the way from Melbourne, but they had 119 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:26,360 lived in Melbourne during the lockdown and got out as soon as they were able 120 00:09:28,159 --> 00:09:31,360 and have been in London ever since. But they said they stumbled across lockdown 121 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,759 skeptics while imprisoned in their homes in Melbourne and it was you know, it 122 00:09:35,799 --> 00:09:39,720 was a sanity Saber And people do say that to me over and over again. 123 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:46,039 But are they not a bit I would say that that team, James, 124 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:48,320 people which I would I would suggest it probably the majority of the world, 125 00:09:48,399 --> 00:09:54,960 I mean of our world would say, yeah, we loved Toby's position 126 00:09:54,200 --> 00:10:01,519 against lockdown, but we now realize that he's kind of well, shit the 127 00:10:01,519 --> 00:10:03,600 bed is that maybe too strong a phrase, but but you've let the side 128 00:10:03,639 --> 00:10:09,600 down on. You haven't gone in hard enough on vaccines, which are just 129 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:13,480 evil. You haven't gone in. You know, you're you're completely wrong on 130 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:18,879 the Ukraine's hue And they're probably thinking, well, he was a bit of 131 00:10:18,879 --> 00:10:22,720 a bit of a tease. He sort of he gave us what we wanted 132 00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:26,159 on the lockdown. But we now realized that people who bang on about lockdown 133 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,879 like Dan Hammond does, for example, he makes a big deal doesn't need 134 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,919 lords handon as he now is on how still verte a few people in the 135 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:37,360 country who who resisted lockdown, who spoke against lockdown. I was all on 136 00:10:37,399 --> 00:10:41,679 my own and fighting this battle. Um, but I was reading I was 137 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:46,080 reading his column in the in the Sunday Telegraphs this weekend, and he was 138 00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:54,320 listening Boris Johnson's achievements, and among the achievements was was rolling out the vaccines 139 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:58,759 faster than any country in the West. And I'm thinking, you could maybe 140 00:10:58,759 --> 00:11:05,919 have written that piece two years ago, but now it looks really rather tasteless. 141 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:11,879 I mean like tasteless propaganda on behalf of a really quite monstrously corrupt and 142 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:20,440 misguided the very least government when you're when you're speaking out about what is now 143 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:26,120 known to be a dangerously rushed program of an experimental genes therapy, which is 144 00:11:26,159 --> 00:11:30,720 which is killed or injured lots of people. So the point I'm making, 145 00:11:30,759 --> 00:11:35,960 sorry I've made it and sidetracked by well, yeah, but but he is. 146 00:11:37,159 --> 00:11:39,840 He is emblematic of the For me, I think I've said this before, 147 00:11:41,879 --> 00:11:45,279 I've faced my point, then you can say what you want that I 148 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,240 see people who may make a big deal about their opposition to lockdown m I 149 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:54,440 put them in the same category as people who bang on about how much they 150 00:11:54,519 --> 00:12:01,279 hate LBGT nonsense and and and unwoke. These seems to be distractions from the 151 00:12:01,759 --> 00:12:05,879 much greater evils in the world right now, which are the fact that big 152 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,200 big farmer, with the collusion of governments, has been poisoning us and they're 153 00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:11,799 not admitting it. I mean, that's a much much bigger deal, and 154 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,480 people who won't admit that seems to me part of the problem, however good 155 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:22,879 they were on Lockdown Well, I mean, I think Dan Hannan in good 156 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:26,679 faith was a lockdown skeptic. But it's not a COVID vaccine skeptic, and 157 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:33,759 that's not a particularly uncommon position. I think that you may be overestimating the 158 00:12:33,879 --> 00:12:39,519 number of people who've gone with you on this journey. I mean, much 159 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:43,120 more often than I had people coming up to me and not saying, Tobes, 160 00:12:43,399 --> 00:12:46,679 I think you've shot the bead. Why haven't you gone with James on 161 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:50,840 the same journey? Much more often people come to me and say, a 162 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:52,559 big fan of lockdown skeptic, I'm a big fan of lockdown skeptic. Became 163 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,919 the Daily Skeptic, love one and calling. But is James okay? Is 164 00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:01,080 he all right? I'm a bit worried about it. I must they care. 165 00:13:01,519 --> 00:13:07,840 People say, why why don't you agree with James when he you know? 166 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,559 But there are self selecting audience tapes, they are other people. That's 167 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:13,919 true. It may well be. I expect I expect people come up to 168 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,080 you and go, it's Toby all right? Is he has he become a 169 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,320 complete cut Who who's paying who's paying his wages? Or something? Like that. 170 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:24,240 That's pretty Yeah, there's few that do talk about here wou would would 171 00:13:24,279 --> 00:13:28,159 say that, Yeah. Yeah. Many of the people come up to me 172 00:13:28,279 --> 00:13:31,600 that clearly agree with me more than they agree with you. They often say, 173 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,679 I'm somewhere in the middle, but but I'm closer to you than I 174 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:43,000 am to James, And they worry that you sometimes sound quite sensible, and 175 00:13:43,039 --> 00:13:46,080 I think you do take people who were originally just lockdown skeptics with you, 176 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:52,039 particularly talking about vaccine harms. But they worry when you talk about, you 177 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:56,000 know, dinosaurs being a hoax and the moon landings being faked and Paul McCartney 178 00:13:56,039 --> 00:14:00,360 having been replaced by Do you think do you think? Ask you? Do 179 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,080 you think the moon landings were not faked? Do you think they actually happened? 180 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:07,399 I think they actually happened. Yeah, as as right, okay, 181 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:13,919 and not because you know, receive the normally status or being excluded from mainstream 182 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:18,600 publications. Have you looked into I genuinely do think that they actually happened. 183 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:22,360 We won't. We won't going to Now when are we going to have? 184 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,559 When am I going to put you on the naughty steps? Shud we do 185 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,600 it in the next section, Okay, should we hear from? Should we 186 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:33,080 hear from? Last answer? This is from one of our most loyal sponsors. 187 00:14:33,159 --> 00:14:37,399 Indeed. Indeed is the hiring platform where you can attract, interview, 188 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,799 and hire all in one place instead of spending hours on multiple job sites searching 189 00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:46,679 for candidates with the right skills. 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The offers good for a 198 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:31,480 limited time. Claim your seventy five dollar credit now at Indeed dot com slash 199 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,840 London. Just go to Indeed dot com slash London and support the show by 200 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,559 saying you heard about it on this podcast. It's indeed dot com slash London. 201 00:15:39,759 --> 00:15:45,440 Terms of conditions apply. Need to hire you need. Indeed, that 202 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,879 was really well time terms because while you were doing that ad that some lightning 203 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:56,159 briefly took out or interfered with. Is it raining where you are, No, 204 00:15:56,279 --> 00:15:58,600 but it's quite overcast, looks like it might rain it in any moment. 205 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:02,639 We're very grateful. I've been. It's been driving me nuts. This 206 00:16:02,799 --> 00:16:06,279 dry weather. You try riding on ground this hard, The horse is bloody 207 00:16:06,279 --> 00:16:08,679 hate it. You can't you can't counter or jump or anything, and it 208 00:16:08,799 --> 00:16:15,679 upsets there that hurts their knees. And anyway, Um, I'm using starlink, 209 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,840 and I I've got my doubts about starlink. I mean even though even 210 00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:26,440 that which it comes to the north step but in the moment, but um, 211 00:16:26,519 --> 00:16:30,840 it's the good thing about starlink is if you live in the sticks where 212 00:16:30,879 --> 00:16:34,799 I do, and there's no there's no what's that special wire line that you 213 00:16:34,879 --> 00:16:41,559 get where where you get yeah, where there's no fiber optic and so satellites 214 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,639 really are any option. But I think it is part of a I don't 215 00:16:45,639 --> 00:16:49,360 trust in a musk. I think it is part of an evil master plan 216 00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:52,480 to make us rely on to this system. Then it's going to use it 217 00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:57,039 to two it does? Does it work? Does it work well? Does 218 00:16:57,039 --> 00:17:00,799 it work better than it does normally work? Well? I mean it's quite 219 00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:06,200 unusual, I'd say, to lose them. It could be me. I 220 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:07,599 mean, I've had to switch to my phone. My Internet's really not as 221 00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,359 good as it was. I don't know what's going on with it, but 222 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,039 I'm now Anyway, what I was asking was, do you know why you're 223 00:17:14,039 --> 00:17:17,960 on the naughty step? Well, I'm not sure is it is? It? 224 00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,599 Is it because of something I said in my other podcast the week get 225 00:17:21,920 --> 00:17:25,680 Having seen your comments, I wasn't sure whether you were where you actually listened 226 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:27,559 to it, or whether you were just reacting to someone else's no no. 227 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:33,119 So I looked, that's right, um my snitches. You know obviously obviously 228 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:37,279 I have a gang of snitches, and they they watched your podcast and they 229 00:17:37,319 --> 00:17:40,279 said, look what Tobia said about you. So I said, right, 230 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:44,440 well, I take a very dim view of this. And my view is 231 00:17:44,559 --> 00:17:49,359 I don't mind you dissing me behind my bat because obviously I do that with 232 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:53,759 you all the time. But if you're going to diss me. I think 233 00:17:53,759 --> 00:18:00,079 it's very important that you represent what I say and rather than what I don't 234 00:18:00,119 --> 00:18:04,160 say, because if you, if you, if you misquote me and misrepresent 235 00:18:04,279 --> 00:18:08,480 my position, it makes me worry that you don't really understand the word I'm 236 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,559 saying to you, and you don't really listen to me. You just kind 237 00:18:11,599 --> 00:18:15,720 of make up stuff that I said and your head in faith. What was 238 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,720 it I said that you thought was a misrepresentation? Okay, So, very 239 00:18:19,799 --> 00:18:26,359 very briefly you told the sad story about how you'd raise the subject to Philip 240 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,319 Scofield, the children's entertainer Come Breakfast TV presenter, and you'd raise this subject 241 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,799 in order to find some common ground, which I thought was very touching, 242 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,559 and you you thought that we would be able to agree on this subject, 243 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:47,039 which was isn't far too much media space being given to Philip Scofield, And 244 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:49,559 had you said that straight away, I've gone too right, Toby. It 245 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:53,319 is absolutely it is a distraction. It's bread and circuses, it's smoke and 246 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:57,119 mirrors. The fact that we are being encouraged to talk about the celebrity tittle 247 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:03,480 tattle about this this perv is is really a sign that you know, it's 248 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,880 how it's how they operate. They try and distract us from much more important 249 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,279 things with with this this stuff. But unfortunately we got bogged down in the 250 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:18,079 debate about what exactly Schofield had done, and I and I was brating you 251 00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:23,000 for um for under underplaying what the gravity of what he'd done. But that 252 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,119 wasn't My point was not that actually this was a serious story which we should 253 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,960 pay more attention to. It was more if you're going to raise this subject 254 00:19:32,079 --> 00:19:33,839 terms, at least get it, get your get your your your facts right, 255 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,920 rather than so do you see do you see the difference? I do 256 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:41,880 too, think it's a sip. Yeah, that's why I suppose, Yeah, 257 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,720 I suppose it wasn't just a straightforward misunderstanding. Well, but that is 258 00:19:45,759 --> 00:19:49,559 quite a subtle distinction. It was more me trying to kind of turn our 259 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:56,240 exchange into a funny story. So the story I told was that I had 260 00:19:56,319 --> 00:20:00,000 introduced this subject in order to agree with you for why that he was a 261 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,960 news story that everyone was talking about but which was receiving far too much attention. 262 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,039 Because that's often what you say when I bring up something I'm interested in, 263 00:20:10,079 --> 00:20:14,480 but your yes, and I sort of presented this as an olive branch. 264 00:20:14,559 --> 00:20:18,519 I was extending to you something we were going to agree shouldn't be shouldn't 265 00:20:18,519 --> 00:20:25,079 be receiving the columnches it is in the national media. But I'd misjudged it 266 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:30,000 because it turned out that you actually were quite interested in the story because because 267 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:40,160 of the implication that Philips go Field had behaved inappropriately with a minor and that 268 00:20:40,759 --> 00:20:45,720 But I wasn't fed into your kind of general suspicion of this kind of diabolical 269 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:51,160 halt kind of Christopher. No, that's why we're probably exaggerating that bit, 270 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:52,880 that bit, yes, in order to just in order to just make it, 271 00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:56,160 to turn it into a funny story, to make to make it seem 272 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,880 like I just misjudged for once I'd landed on a story which you thought at 273 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:07,200 actually walls worth discussing because it did reveal something diabolical and sinister and evil about 274 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,759 the kind of you know, elite media class. But I accept that that 275 00:21:11,759 --> 00:21:15,119 that that you're not a subscriber to this kind of English version of Q and 276 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:21,000 On. Well, no, I don't. That's because the key thing I'm 277 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,400 not a I'm not a subscriber to I do have a totally think that that 278 00:21:23,799 --> 00:21:30,759 Hollywood is riddled with with pedophilio and satanism. That's but that's a that's a 279 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,960 separate issue. Um. I just that I don't think the Phillips go Field 280 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:38,359 story is is a good example of it. And I share your view that 281 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,680 it's it's total technical. It's just it's just like not anyway, um our 282 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:48,319 bet that there are further stories this week you are dying to discuss, and 283 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,119 I will not give a flying Yes, I rather fear that. But I 284 00:21:53,279 --> 00:21:56,640 fear that why didn't you? Why didn't you try them out? You know? 285 00:21:56,079 --> 00:22:00,839 Cast you get your little bit of your fly, your favorite fly, 286 00:22:00,039 --> 00:22:04,400 and cast it out and seeing whether the James the trout is remotely interested or 287 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,480 what he's going to light at the bottle. When I was thinking that some 288 00:22:08,519 --> 00:22:14,119 of our listeners, including listeners in the United States, would be interested in 289 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:21,480 our views about the reversals of fortune that have befallen three of the most prominent 290 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,839 politicians in our world. So there's the indictment of Trump, which has jeopardized 291 00:22:26,039 --> 00:22:33,640 his bid to become the Republican nominee in twenty twenty four. There's Boris effectively 292 00:22:33,799 --> 00:22:37,920 being hounded out of Parliament by the Privileges Committee. So he's now on Friday 293 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:45,160 he resigned his seat in Uxbridge, and it doesn't look like he's now going 294 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:47,720 to find a way back into the House of Commons. So it looks as 295 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,319 though I don't want to write him off, but it looks as though his 296 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,079 conventional political career maybe over all, though there's a possibility he may form a 297 00:22:56,119 --> 00:23:00,359 new party with Farage or somebody else. And then there was also, perhaps 298 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:04,759 most dramatically, the arrest of Nicholas Durgeon, the Scottish Tyrant. I mean, 299 00:23:04,799 --> 00:23:11,880 the rise and fall of Nicholas Durgeon is almost more dramatic than the rise 300 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,839 and fall of Boris Johnson. Yes, Boris one an eighty seat majority in 301 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:25,480 twenty nineteen, got Brexit done, and you know, has proved to be 302 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,920 at least four years ago a very effective leader of the Conservative Party, at 303 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:33,839 least on the campaign trail, and has now had to resign because he effectively 304 00:23:34,279 --> 00:23:37,240 run a foul of parliamentary rules, or at least that's the view of the 305 00:23:37,279 --> 00:23:41,319 Privileges Committee. So that's quite a dramatic rice and fall. But Nicholas Sturgeon, 306 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,519 I mean, you know, as recently a six months ago, was 307 00:23:44,559 --> 00:23:48,559 being held up as a kind of paragon of virtue, which people connected with 308 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,599 the fact that she was a woman. Here was a woman with more integrity, 309 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:59,119 you know, a more moral fiber, simply in virtue of being a 310 00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:03,119 woman who should who had modeled for the rest of the world, like just 311 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:07,640 Sinda Arden how to respond this life threatening pandemic because she's so caring and compassionate 312 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,319 and so morally upright. You know, she was a kind of held up, 313 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:18,680 you know, as this exemplar of female leadership. And on was it 314 00:24:19,519 --> 00:24:26,400 yesterday she was arrested by police Scotland in the course of their inquiries into a 315 00:24:26,519 --> 00:24:32,599 financial fraud whereby hundreds of thousands of pounds have disappeared from the Scottish National Party's 316 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:37,480 coffers, and her husband and she are currently under investigation. I mean, 317 00:24:37,519 --> 00:24:42,000 it is an extraordinary and dramatic fall from grace for one of the leading female 318 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:47,279 politicians in the worst So, yeah, those are the three stories I thought 319 00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:49,680 you might want to talk about, but maybe you don't. I don't. 320 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,559 I think it's all pantomime and it's all meanless that I think the problem is. 321 00:24:53,799 --> 00:24:56,759 And I know this really Annoys Team tob people and they say, why 322 00:24:56,799 --> 00:25:02,400 won't James address these things? I think it's been a very very long time, 323 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:11,960 if ever, actually since our political systems were we're about representing us the 324 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:17,319 people, or about the rule of law, or about this thing they call 325 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,559 democracy or anything else. It's all staged. It's all it's all pantomime. 326 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,119 You know, the fact that Nicholas Sturgeon is now being in I doubt anything 327 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,720 will come of it. I don't shoot, she'll she'll do deal jail time. 328 00:25:27,519 --> 00:25:32,920 It's it's all the stuff about Boris. Boris is a is a sort 329 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,799 of self created character out of a Punch and Judy show. He's not he's 330 00:25:37,839 --> 00:25:41,000 not real. He's just a kind of buffoon who appears on the stage and 331 00:25:41,759 --> 00:25:47,559 prances a while and entertains us and delights us, and then then we go 332 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:51,079 boo his and and then he disappears, and then he comes back, maybe 333 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:56,759 as he's been touted as maybe the next editor of the Spectator if if Yeah, 334 00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:02,359 that's another that's another drum attic thing that's happened in our world since the 335 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:10,359 last episode, which is the Telegraph Media Group, which includes the Daily Telegraph 336 00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,559 for Sunday Telegraph and the Spectator, which we both still work for, has 337 00:26:15,599 --> 00:26:23,440 gone into receivership and is now we think, up for sale. Seemingly, 338 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,720 yes, and seemingly the Spectator could be sold off separately from the rest of 339 00:26:30,759 --> 00:26:36,440 the group, and so there are supposedly some buyers interested in the Spectator as 340 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,920 well as buyers interested in the entire group. And that's all quite dramatic too. 341 00:26:41,039 --> 00:26:45,920 I thought you were going to perhaps suggest that the reason the Telegraph had 342 00:26:48,039 --> 00:26:52,720 suddenly suffered this setback was because it had suddenly become full it had gone full 343 00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:57,160 lockdown skeptics. But I think that would be a conspiracy theory that even you 344 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:00,920 wouldn't entertain. I think it is just a coincidence. Yeah. No, 345 00:27:00,039 --> 00:27:06,519 I think the whole of the mainstream media, that the legacy media is owned 346 00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:10,759 by the powers that be, the cabal, the predator classes I call them, 347 00:27:10,759 --> 00:27:14,759 and not to be trusted in any way, and they're all in engineering 348 00:27:14,759 --> 00:27:18,000 are down for um. Yeah No, I don't know if they're owned how 349 00:27:18,079 --> 00:27:22,720 I mean, But what's your understanding then, of why the Telegraph has gone 350 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:29,200 into receivership. I mean, seemingly the owners who did own it ran up 351 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,079 some significant debts which they were then unable to repay. Well, yeah, 352 00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,680 I think I think rich rich people buy these things as that as their sort 353 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,720 of toys, don't they? And then then they decided that they realized that 354 00:27:41,799 --> 00:27:45,920 the joy it's like buying a grass mall. You suddenly realized that that actually 355 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:53,319 these things are expensive to run. And I owned by a cabal of like 356 00:27:53,440 --> 00:28:00,759 minded billionaires. It's look, I don't understand the nice work. I haven't 357 00:28:00,759 --> 00:28:04,799 looked into media ownership and how it works, but I'm a great believer in 358 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,440 by their fruits, you shall know them. It's it's very obvious looking at 359 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,359 the telegraphs that it is no better than any of the other publications out there 360 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:19,400 that I utterly deplore. They're all part of the line machine. But the 361 00:28:19,519 --> 00:28:23,319 stories that I want to before we get onto those, let me just tell 362 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,559 you. Let me just make a brief observation about the three big political stories 363 00:28:27,599 --> 00:28:30,960 I mentioned. You don't need to comment, and they can go on to 364 00:28:30,039 --> 00:28:33,519 discuss the things you want to talk about. I mean, the thing that 365 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:38,759 struck me about all three stories is that Trump, Boris and Nicholas Sturgeon have 366 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,960 all got into difficulty because they either have broken the law or been accused of 367 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,279 breaking the law, or they haven't followed the rules. So Boris was accused 368 00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:55,960 of being in contempt of deceiving Parliament when he said that he hadn't broken any 369 00:28:55,960 --> 00:29:00,640 of the rules or ignored any of the guidance. And that's what the committee 370 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:07,680 has decided, and that's why he stepped down. And then Sturgeon again accused 371 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:12,359 of breaking the law. And it's as though in politics now the way to 372 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:18,359 undo your opponents is to find rules, laws that you can kind of credibly 373 00:29:18,559 --> 00:29:23,160 accuse them of breaking or not complying with. And it's as though, almost 374 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:26,880 as though, you know, the political class is being hoist on its own 375 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:33,200 petard. It introduces all these laws, all this guidance, it expects everyone 376 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,240 else to follow these petty rules. And then of course it immediately that the 377 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:44,000 political players immediately get caught out for not obeying these laws or following these rules 378 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,079 they expect everyone else to do. But it does seem to represent and and 379 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:53,119 and because of the way in which politics has become so rule bound, because 380 00:29:53,240 --> 00:30:02,079 lawfare has become so important, bureaucrats have been empowered, because the bureaucrats understand 381 00:30:02,599 --> 00:30:07,559 bureaucrats and lawyers understand what the rules allow and don't allow. They understand the 382 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:14,680 law, and politicians, particularly if they're slightly inattentive or a bit lay say 383 00:30:14,759 --> 00:30:19,200 fair like Boris and don't bother to master the minutiae of all the laws and 384 00:30:19,279 --> 00:30:22,640 rules they're supposed to be following, inevitably end up getting caught out. It's 385 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,200 just as though we're moving to a new period in politics in which it's the 386 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:33,759 enforced. The enforces of the rules, whether bureaucrats or their legal allies, 387 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:40,880 are becoming far more powerful than elected politicians or politicians seeking reelection. And it 388 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,640 does seem to me to be a depressing development and of a peace with everything 389 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,319 else we've seen in the past three years. And I thought you were going 390 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:53,160 to almost for the bet on it you were going to tell me about the 391 00:30:53,200 --> 00:31:00,839 time you went to one of Berlascon's Bunga bunga parties. That's right, Berlisconi, 392 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:06,200 another eminently politician who's who's something has happened to in the past week. 393 00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:08,519 So yeah, he's died, hasn't he. Did you ever go to one 394 00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:11,240 of his bunglebow I never did. Did you do you have any amusing, 395 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,759 So you can tell us about nothing about Berlisconi. Okay, so we'll move 396 00:31:15,799 --> 00:31:22,759 on. Another person who's died is Ted Kachinsky, Yes, the unibomber. 397 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:29,119 Now I was, I was really quite taken aback reading his obituary in the 398 00:31:29,119 --> 00:31:32,680 Telegraph. It I hastened to add, It's not me who buys the Telegraph, 399 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,279 it's my wife. Um. But she she made me read it before 400 00:31:36,279 --> 00:31:37,960 we go on the show, so that we could say, so that I'd 401 00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:42,720 be apt to speed with what normis think. And a line brought me up 402 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:48,039 short where it pointed out that, having described how he was one of the 403 00:31:48,039 --> 00:31:51,319 cleverest kids of his generation, he went up to somewhere like Harvard or somewhere 404 00:31:51,359 --> 00:31:53,920 similar when he was sixteen. He was really bright. But then it mentioned 405 00:31:53,960 --> 00:32:01,720 that he spent two hundred hours under some kind of MK Ultra program. Now 406 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,279 I imagine that you're halfway to thinking that MK Ultra is a conspiracy theory? 407 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,920 Would I be right? No? I remember, I remember. I think 408 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,319 I was vaguely aware of this because I think it comes up in man Hunt 409 00:32:15,519 --> 00:32:22,720 Unibomber, that rather good Netflix series about the man Hunt unim So so often 410 00:32:22,839 --> 00:32:29,079 things things like MK Ultra, which is you know, probably is a CIA 411 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:36,279 brainwashing program which changes the personalities of the victims of it. And it's got 412 00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:40,839 a sort of more modern incarnation which is called Monarch and the Monarch program the 413 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,319 symbol of it is that butterfly, you know, that very familiar butterfly which 414 00:32:45,319 --> 00:32:50,400 you'll you'll often see and in unlikely places like pop videos and stuff. A 415 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,839 lot of a lot of the damage that's done in the world by by people 416 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,359 that are sold to us has kind of lone wolf killers and you know, 417 00:32:59,599 --> 00:33:05,599 liked head Kachinsky. These these people are actually the victims of MK ultra programs. 418 00:33:05,599 --> 00:33:09,400 And and you'd ask yourself, what are the three letter agencies like the 419 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:16,599 CIA doing experimenting on members of the of the public and turning them into psychopaths. 420 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:20,519 Do you not think it's a bit weird that you could? You could? 421 00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:25,200 You not that I didn't think that was going to be your constantly trying 422 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,480 to second guess each other's takes. But I thought I thought you were going 423 00:33:28,519 --> 00:33:35,759 to be quite the fan of the Uni bomber and not ascribe his um apocalyptic 424 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:42,000 theories about the direction in which the West is heading to. You know, 425 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:45,440 mental instability or to the sky. Oh no, I think I think he 426 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:49,960 said. He said he wrote a lot of cool stuff as well. But 427 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,480 but he did he did, you know, he did. He didn't send 428 00:33:52,599 --> 00:33:54,759 letter bombs to people. He did killer injure a few a few people, 429 00:33:54,759 --> 00:33:59,480 which I'm not sure I'm a massive fan of, you know, just bite. 430 00:33:59,519 --> 00:34:01,240 You know. Some of his writings are pretty interesting, you know, 431 00:34:01,279 --> 00:34:07,400 and actually some of his writings are Remember that game where you had to compare 432 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:13,480 which passage was from Ted Kachinsky from the UNI Bomber and which was written by 433 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,639 Al Gore in his book about the about the Planet, and that they're often 434 00:34:17,679 --> 00:34:23,400 indistinguishable. Um, yeah, yeah, but yeah, I mean there is 435 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,559 a lot of This is where I think you normal is, if I may 436 00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:35,199 call you one, need to kind of take the theories of people like me 437 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:37,000 a bit more seriously, and that the clearly is a thing called m k 438 00:34:37,159 --> 00:34:42,519 Ultra, that clearly is an organization called the CIA. It clearly does damage 439 00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:47,559 people like Ted Kachinsky and actually most of the most of the worst serial killers 440 00:34:49,559 --> 00:34:52,440 of the last you know, well since forever. If you look into their 441 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:59,079 their background, you find that they have been involved in some manner with these 442 00:34:59,159 --> 00:35:04,559 kinds of programs or they've been part of the three letter agency black ops things. 443 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:08,400 It's and it's very very handy to dismiss these things, as is your 444 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:17,639 is that the CIA wanted to deliberately create kind of homicidal maniacs in order to 445 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:23,400 kind of destabilize Western society and I don't know, rather than it's just an 446 00:35:23,559 --> 00:35:30,000 accidental byproduct, yeah, No, My My contention is that it did create 447 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:35,679 these people. I can't pretend I can deliberate or not. I can to 448 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,760 deal with the facts of the matter. I would say that that what it 449 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:43,519 comes down to is this that we who have been brought up on. You 450 00:35:43,559 --> 00:35:47,719 and I were about the same age. Um, we watched James Bond movies 451 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,320 and there was James Bond who worked for presumably am I six rather than MY 452 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:57,800 five because he's sort of foreign intelligence, isn't he? And then we had 453 00:35:58,119 --> 00:36:02,199 his buddy in America is great guy Slighter. We love Felix Lighted, We 454 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:06,199 love that, we love the CIA. When when when when they appeared because 455 00:36:06,199 --> 00:36:09,280 they're the good guys. They're fighting for freedom in America. And it seems 456 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:14,559 to me that we've been sold apart that I don't where are you on the 457 00:36:14,559 --> 00:36:16,840 CIA, for example, do you think it's basically a good thing or or 458 00:36:17,159 --> 00:36:23,039 a fundamentally bad thing. I don't. I don't have a well I think 459 00:36:23,039 --> 00:36:28,639 it, Um, I think it it in periods of its history, Um, 460 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:31,960 not good. But well, I think I think I'm obviously suspicious about 461 00:36:32,519 --> 00:36:40,000 collusion within the security services to discredit Trump that seems to have taken place, 462 00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:45,320 and also the involvement of you know, Security Service personnel and X personnel and 463 00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,440 trying to suppress misinformation and disinformation, which is the name that that's more the 464 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,440 FBI, wasn't it that was involved in the I mean, I mean not 465 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,480 not that I think that we're talking about last fleet. I think, well, 466 00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:59,960 I think I think there are there are allegations that there is some CIA 467 00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:07,719 or x CIA personnel involvement in the kind of censorship industrial complex, right, 468 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:09,039 But that what you think? That's that's as far as it goes. You 469 00:37:09,039 --> 00:37:15,440 don't think they're responsible for drug running, child child trafficking. I think I 470 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,760 think they may. They may have been responsible for jobs some drug running certainly 471 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:23,960 during the you know, the the eighties. Um, but not now. 472 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,480 I thought I thought that there's a there's that film American made, I thought 473 00:37:28,519 --> 00:37:30,400 was very good. Do you see that with Tom Cruise, Well, that's 474 00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:34,719 yeah, that's I haven't seen that one, but but that is basically revelation 475 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,360 of the method that these films occasionally give us clues about what these organizations are 476 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:40,960 up to, and then they're up to no good. Um yeah, no, 477 00:37:42,159 --> 00:37:46,239 I'm just just just curious anyway. Um, that's Ted Kaginski. Um. 478 00:37:47,079 --> 00:37:49,840 The other thing I wanted to talk to you about. Sorry, because 479 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,559 I'm I'm conscious we haven't got that much time, but we should just break 480 00:37:52,599 --> 00:37:57,719 for a second to give it an opportunity for another sponsor to say something to 481 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,320 our listeners. Hey, folks, James Wild you're ricochet dot com. The 482 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,440 other day, I was looking at the member feed, which unless you remember, 483 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,639 you can't read, and I was writing a little private piece about my 484 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,079 daughter's graduation, and I set it to private because I wanted it to be 485 00:38:10,159 --> 00:38:15,440 for the community that is Ricochet, and gosh, I wish you would have 486 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,199 been able to read it. But that's on you, isn't it. Now. 487 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:23,000 I know everybody on the Internet wants you to give them money streaming services 488 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:28,480 and subscriptions, and your apps have subscriptions and it's just it's annoying, and 489 00:38:28,559 --> 00:38:30,639 you look at it, you say, you know, I really don't want 490 00:38:30,639 --> 00:38:34,400 to be burdened with another thing to pay. But the thing is, Ricochet 491 00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,119 is not a burden. It's a gift. And once you go there and 492 00:38:37,159 --> 00:38:39,880 start seeing all the voices, meet all the friends and the diverse post. 493 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,440 I mean, we talk about a radio and jazz and old music and sports 494 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,159 and everything else, You'll realize this. It's the place you've been looking for 495 00:38:45,199 --> 00:38:51,280 all these years on the internet. Forget Twitter, forget Facebook. Ricochet that's 496 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,239 the community that you have been looking for, ricochet dot com. I'm not 497 00:38:54,239 --> 00:39:05,320 AOTU. You go there right now. The shark Yes, did you did? 498 00:39:05,519 --> 00:39:07,760 Did you? I hope you didn't, But did you? Or did 499 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,840 you? Didn't you watch it? I didn't watch it. No, this 500 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:15,559 is the shark attack in Egypt. Don't yeah, don't do it. I 501 00:39:15,639 --> 00:39:20,519 normally don't look at horrible, horrible videos because I'm quite much more screen wished 502 00:39:20,519 --> 00:39:23,159 his days than I used to be. But having had a lifetime's obsession with 503 00:39:23,199 --> 00:39:27,360 sharks, I even read a book about my Fear of shar novel based on 504 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:30,280 my fear of sharks, and I've dived in cages with great white sharks. 505 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:36,199 You know, I've sort of confronted my fear when a video went up on 506 00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:43,119 the Internet of a man being attacked off a beach in Sharm or Shake in 507 00:39:43,159 --> 00:39:45,480 Egypt, where I've been. I've been on diving holidays, so so it's 508 00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:50,880 all pretty much. It's quite near the knuckle for me. Saw him being 509 00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:55,920 killed in front of his dad on the beach, you know, a few 510 00:39:55,960 --> 00:40:00,440 a few feet away from the beach, and people just going, oh my 511 00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:04,679 god, oh my god, oh my god. It was horrible. It's 512 00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:08,159 really horrible. Don't I urge everyone not to watch it. It's something you 513 00:40:08,199 --> 00:40:14,639 should never see a man's last moments. And yeah, but the thing that 514 00:40:14,679 --> 00:40:19,159 really upset me about it, apart from the obvious, was that it turned 515 00:40:19,199 --> 00:40:22,400 out that this young man, he was twenty three, he was Russian. 516 00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,840 And I don't know whether these were actual real accounts or whether they were kind 517 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:36,679 of fake accounts designed to raise tension and upset and stuff, but there were 518 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:43,519 various accounts purporting to be from Ukraine pro Ukraine supporters sort of celebrating this attack 519 00:40:43,599 --> 00:40:46,280 as a kind of victory for them. You know that the Tiger shark was 520 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:55,320 doing their bidding by killing a Russian and I thought this was really upsettingly emblematic 521 00:40:57,039 --> 00:41:00,559 of what horrible times we're living in, where where people was him to have 522 00:41:00,639 --> 00:41:04,559 no regard for human life, They don't care about you know, that guy 523 00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,480 had a you know, he was had a life ahead of him and had 524 00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:10,159 his dad there, and that no one wants anyone to be eaten by sharks. 525 00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:13,679 I wonder whether you had a view on that. And I didn't see 526 00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,679 any of that, James. But couldn't you say the same thing about, 527 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:25,320 you know, people effectively making excuses for Putin even though he's killing tens of 528 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:30,320 thousands of people, including lots of innocent women and children. I don't. 529 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:36,480 I'm very surprised to him making that bizarrely irrelevant point. What what are you 530 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:39,719 saying? Um? Well, but what are you saying? Actually? The 531 00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:45,480 disregard for human life surely characterizes both sides in an armed conflict like the war 532 00:41:45,519 --> 00:41:49,880 in Ukraine. People genuinely don't. I think lots of people are gonna be 533 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,039 watching this and going, how a second, what's Tobyon about? Why would 534 00:41:52,039 --> 00:41:58,079 you say that? Why did you say that? Well? Well, I 535 00:41:58,119 --> 00:42:01,840 suppose are you kind of saying they're kind of sort of justified in floating at 536 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,159 this guy over this guy's death. That's the only point. No, no, 537 00:42:05,079 --> 00:42:07,920 no, I'm not saying that I'm saying is even mentioned at them. 538 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:13,480 Well, because you less people come away with the impression that we think it 539 00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:16,000 is just people on one side in that conflict who are displaying a disregard for 540 00:42:16,119 --> 00:42:20,639 human life, for aren't being as compassionate as we'd like them to be. 541 00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:24,239 You're weird. The other thing that annoyed me or upset me was that there 542 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,519 was another faction. And again, I don't know how real these people are. 543 00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:36,320 When the shark, this horrible, vicious killer preacher man eater, was 544 00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:42,280 hunted down and dragged ashore by the Egyptians, there were other other green people 545 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:46,039 of a greeny persuasion saying we should we should we deserve it, or we 546 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,159 shouldn't presume to judge this creature. It was only acting according to its instincts. 547 00:42:51,199 --> 00:42:55,159 We shouldn't have ent and entered its domain. And again this is this 548 00:42:55,280 --> 00:43:02,239 is a way of thinking which really only in the last i'd say a hundred 549 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:08,920 years would this have been considered tenable, except on the most lunatic fringe. 550 00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:15,440 Of the lunatic fringe, the idea that somehow man was just one creature among 551 00:43:15,519 --> 00:43:20,559 anywhere, among many, and really no better than the bacteria or any of 552 00:43:20,599 --> 00:43:24,039 the other other creatures on the planet, and certainly no better than a shark, 553 00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:35,039 which really I find again emblematic of just how warped our thinking has become. 554 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:37,679 Yeah, but that kind of what would you call that? That kind 555 00:43:37,679 --> 00:43:43,480 of worship? I mean, usually the form that takes is to place man 556 00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:49,320 not on a par with other creatures, with no greater claim to life than 557 00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,840 them, but to place man below them. Yeah, kind of hierarchy of 558 00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:59,880 moral worth. Yes, if it's on a part of that improvement. No, 559 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,480 well, I think you're you're you're probably right. I mean, the 560 00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:07,280 Earth has a cancer. A cancer is man? I mean that was that 561 00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:14,320 was the phrase of these Marthusians who are currently informing the green movement and the 562 00:44:14,559 --> 00:44:20,360 whole ecological movement is has that as its basis, that man is just one 563 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,360 creature among any and worse than that, he's kind of detrimental to the planet, 564 00:44:25,559 --> 00:44:30,079 rather than, as I understand it, God's creation, made in the 565 00:44:30,119 --> 00:44:35,719 image of God, and who has been given dominion over all the other animals, 566 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,639 as it makes clear in Psalm eight, which was written at least a 567 00:44:39,679 --> 00:44:45,559 thousand years before before before Christ. And that's that's that's where I'm where I 568 00:44:45,599 --> 00:44:50,239 stand. And in a way, the fact that so many young people have 569 00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,440 been educated, if that's the right word to believe, the contrary that we 570 00:44:54,480 --> 00:45:00,280 are just one among any any, is indicative of the degree to which our 571 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:06,320 minds have been poisoned by this kind of satanic stroke, lucifery and agenda. 572 00:45:06,639 --> 00:45:07,679 Should we move on to culture corner? We haven't, don't. We haven't 573 00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,719 got much time left. But I want you to tell you about something I've 574 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,480 done, which is I went and saw a play called Patriots. I did 575 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,679 Friday, as we did. When did you go? What day? What 576 00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,840 a weird that is such a weird coincidence. I went to see it on 577 00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:30,880 the matinee on Wednesday, Thursday, Thursday, I saw the day before you, 578 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,440 day before me, and was Tom imagine same cast, So Tom Hollander 579 00:45:36,519 --> 00:45:43,480 as Boris, Josh bish Bronowsky and Will Keen Berezovsky and Will Keen as putin 580 00:45:44,079 --> 00:45:49,559 exactly exactly. I thought it was very good, but uh, did you 581 00:45:49,599 --> 00:45:55,199 find it too? Unsympathetic to put it. I went expecting it to be 582 00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:01,360 the purest, proper, proper and um you know, almost like a sort 583 00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:07,039 of extended blue and yellow flag on stage. I thought it, well, 584 00:46:07,079 --> 00:46:09,239 I was, I was very pleasantly surprised. I thought you could go in 585 00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:13,840 being Toby clearly and and and think it's great. But you could also go 586 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:19,039 in being me and thinking it thinking it's great. I mean, my my 587 00:46:19,039 --> 00:46:22,239 my position on on Putin, by the way, is I think he is 588 00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:28,639 as much cabal, as much wf UM, as much New World Order as 589 00:46:28,679 --> 00:46:30,159 any of the other people I deplore, you know, I think a player 590 00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:34,000 played on all that, all their houses. I just think that we are, 591 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,440 we in the West are as evil as if that's the right world, 592 00:46:37,519 --> 00:46:39,960 Yes, it is, it's the right word. As as Putin that that 593 00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:45,400 he's not, he's not some kind of putler, as as as as you 594 00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:51,159 find him in the Western media, is actually no worse than Biden or Obama 595 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:57,320 or any of the other utters are not come back. Definitely, we definitely, 596 00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,760 yeah, I know, I know we do. I thought, yeah, 597 00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:04,360 as you say, it wasn't, I mean it was, it wasn't 598 00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,960 really. I mean, in some ways I suppose it did anticipate the war 599 00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:13,119 in Ukraine, in that the Borachevsky character did warn towards the end, when 600 00:47:13,159 --> 00:47:16,199 he was in exile and he was Putin's mortal enemy, that he would start 601 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:24,320 behaving like dictators Russian emperors of old, and so that was intended clearly, 602 00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:30,360 you know, that resonated and was intended to foreshadow what actually happened. But 603 00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,760 it was all set before the war in Ukraine. So I don't think it 604 00:47:34,079 --> 00:47:37,480 didn't. It wasn't. It wasn't, as you say, obviously partisan in 605 00:47:37,480 --> 00:47:44,000 that conflict. And it's quite a nuanced portrait both of Borachevski and Putin. 606 00:47:44,119 --> 00:47:49,119 I mean, neither of them are portrayed particularly sympathetically, but neither are portrayed 607 00:47:49,159 --> 00:47:53,039 completely well unsympathetically either, I mean, and I think they actually did have 608 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:59,159 to whitewash some aspects of Putin's early life. I mean Peter Morgan, the 609 00:47:59,599 --> 00:48:02,800 writer, so he was portrayed when he was the deputy mayor of Saint Petersburg 610 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:10,559 as a fairly upright, honest, hard working politician and patriot who then became 611 00:48:10,679 --> 00:48:17,840 corrupted as he solicited Borachevsky's help and then eventually became Prime Minister and then president 612 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:22,440 and then started behaving, you know, in this authoritarian manner. But he 613 00:48:22,519 --> 00:48:25,920 started in order to kind of get that arc, in order to kind of 614 00:48:27,559 --> 00:48:30,920 to have the drama, you needed some sort of transformation. So I think 615 00:48:30,119 --> 00:48:34,400 Morgan had to exaggerate, you know, what a paragon he was when he 616 00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,840 was Deputy Maryson Petersburg, when I think he was probably pretty villainous and on 617 00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:42,639 the take back. Although equally you could argue that his treatment with Berezovsky, 618 00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:45,920 I mean the very fact that they've given the role to one of our most 619 00:48:46,159 --> 00:48:52,760 lovable actors. I mean, there's there's there's a scene where there's one scene 620 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:58,320 where where Berezovsky shows his steel when when there's a woman playing the piano in 621 00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,360 the background, and he suddenly puts the little piano on her fingers, and 622 00:49:01,519 --> 00:49:07,159 you see that this guy. But otherwise you'd think that Barjovsky really was, 623 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:12,800 as he likes to betray himself, a genuine patriot, and that he's basically 624 00:49:13,199 --> 00:49:17,440 sort of a vuncular, lovable guy who happens to have just made bazillions doing 625 00:49:17,719 --> 00:49:24,840 doing whatever, And he was clearly a very nasty, nasty crook but but 626 00:49:25,679 --> 00:49:30,920 I thought that it the balance was pretty good. You didn't although some of 627 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:36,119 the lighting on Putin was you know, there were some moments where you were 628 00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:40,400 the audience were invited to have a kind of boohs moment. Yeah, when 629 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,400 he was looking at himself in the mirror, and you're supposed to think narcissist. 630 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,480 Yeah, but generally no, I thought it was that. I definitely 631 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,719 recommend the play. Yeah, I'd recommend it too. It's very entertaining and 632 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:55,719 as you say, naughty partis and I think it can be enjoyed by by 633 00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:00,599 people. Do you think we should talk about before we go the final episode 634 00:50:00,599 --> 00:50:02,960 of the Succession? And yeah, let's do that, which I guess. 635 00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:07,159 I warn people, if you haven't seen it, tune out now. Tune 636 00:50:07,159 --> 00:50:09,079 out now, because it's really annoying. Because I tell you what. I 637 00:50:09,199 --> 00:50:20,199 watched it with wife and sons, and they both knew or guessed what had 638 00:50:20,199 --> 00:50:25,159 happened. Because in the telegraphs reporting that you know, there's no spoilers reporting 639 00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:30,000 or whatever, they run a picture of Tom Warren's gams at the top, 640 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:36,000 so they kind of knew. Yeah. I didn't, Yeah, and I 641 00:50:36,039 --> 00:50:40,880 didn't predict that he would be the unlikely winner. I thought it would be 642 00:50:42,639 --> 00:50:47,000 Rome, but actually Roam over the last two or three episodes, experiences a 643 00:50:47,119 --> 00:50:52,320 huge meltdown and is reduced to a kind of gibbering wreck, a self harming 644 00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:55,519 gibbering wreck, yes, which was pretty disturbing. Actually, I found his 645 00:50:55,559 --> 00:50:59,639 transformation. I'd expect it. I mean, I have of the you know, 646 00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:05,719 of the four siblings, he is probably the most sympathetic over the course 647 00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:10,719 of the series, um and the least evil and and sort of the most 648 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:14,719 relatable. Wouldn't you want it? Come on, wouldn't it have been a 649 00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,719 master stroke to have Connor takeover the honor takeover? That would have been Yeah, 650 00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:21,599 I suppose it kind of such a holy fool It would have been a 651 00:51:21,599 --> 00:51:24,199 bit implausible. But I was expecting something. I was expecting a better fate 652 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:30,000 for Roman. I thought he thought that, you know, the writers, 653 00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:34,119 the creators kind of were a little cruel in the do you think so that? 654 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:37,199 I mean, I thought what he did behave pretty and he did, 655 00:51:37,199 --> 00:51:42,920 but I mean, in order to justify, you know, his come upance, 656 00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,719 they had him behaved very badly as soon as he became as soon as 657 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,199 his father died, he sort of went off the rails, didn't he And 658 00:51:49,199 --> 00:51:52,559 he did some things which seemed out of character, like um, you know, 659 00:51:52,039 --> 00:51:59,400 sacking people and turning on his kind of former lover um And at the 660 00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,199 time you thought a bit out of character, and he wouldn't quite behave it's 661 00:52:01,199 --> 00:52:05,239 a bit odd, but he's behaving quite so badly. Has power gone to 662 00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,679 his head? Was he anchored by you know, by his father? But 663 00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:13,199 then I suppose they had to do that and also then justify the appalling come 664 00:52:13,280 --> 00:52:15,760 upance that was meted out to him in sort of the final section of the 665 00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:22,400 drama. I thought that that, like the ending of the Sopranos, it 666 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:28,880 was one of the few endings that you really felt It wasn't a Game of 667 00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:34,199 Thrones ending. It really did justice too, Yeah, I thought, Jesse, 668 00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:40,719 Jesse Armstrong, I think did himself proud because when you think about it, 669 00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:45,400 it achieved two things simultaneously, which is very hard to pull off. 670 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:54,360 It felt interesting and unexpected, and at the same time it was consistent with 671 00:52:54,679 --> 00:53:00,199 everything we'd been we'd learned before you think about this, you you'd seen that 672 00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:07,960 Kendall was you know, I mean as as as um um ship pointed out 673 00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:15,840 completely unfit to running a company because he killed somebody inter Rallier. And then 674 00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:22,400 you had you had Roman who who was sending dick pics and sort of masturbating 675 00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:25,559 and things over what who was that the older woman boss? Yeah, I 676 00:53:25,599 --> 00:53:30,760 can't remember her name now, and he did sack as well. Yeah and 677 00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:35,639 okay, so so really he's okay, he's got a good line in one 678 00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:39,119 liners, but really should he be running a media emper And you've got Shiv 679 00:53:39,679 --> 00:53:44,599 who, Yeah, she's nice to look at and she's a liberal, he's 680 00:53:44,639 --> 00:53:46,800 sort of generic liberal, but what what does what can she actually do? 681 00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:52,440 And then obviously Connor completely away with the ferry. So which of these sports 682 00:53:52,480 --> 00:53:58,639 kids could ever have been suitable for running? That's true? But was was 683 00:53:58,760 --> 00:54:02,400 Tom more suitable than any of them? End up as the CEO? I 684 00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:06,800 mean, he's seemed as unlikely a winner as any of them would have been. 685 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:10,559 That was the other master stroke. You see. It's what um Jesse 686 00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:15,880 Elmstrong telling us about the nature of the world that it is. It is 687 00:54:16,119 --> 00:54:22,119 browns who will inherit. People who are round noosing chameleons were prepared to change 688 00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:27,599 their colors at the drop of a hat depending on who who's biggest dick in 689 00:54:27,639 --> 00:54:30,559 the room. I think it was a phrase that they he's such the biggest 690 00:54:30,559 --> 00:54:37,000 dick in the room. I think was yeah, um that the um that 691 00:54:38,239 --> 00:54:45,360 he's completely cynical, completely, he's a complete hollow man. He's absolutely he 692 00:54:45,519 --> 00:54:51,639 has no no moral core at all, and he's the kind of guy who 693 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:58,000 is running operations like wait, what's it called waist eat? Yeah? Yeah, 694 00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:00,199 I see this is how the world works. Yeah maybe maybe yeah, 695 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:06,880 yeah, I can see that. What just want just one thing that I 696 00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:12,519 didn't quite believe when you know, Roman has volunteered himself to give the eulogy, 697 00:55:12,960 --> 00:55:19,280 yeah, at the funeral, and he gets up and he becomes tongue 698 00:55:19,280 --> 00:55:22,960 tied. He's too upset, he's too frightened. He has a complete meltdown, 699 00:55:23,159 --> 00:55:30,920 and Kendall then steps up and gives the oration. Um, And it 700 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:34,480 didn't feel as though you weren't You weren't. You weren't, so you weren't 701 00:55:34,519 --> 00:55:37,719 informed that Kendall knew this might happen, and so it prepared something. I 702 00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:40,519 think he was supposed to believe that he was speaking off the cuff, but 703 00:55:40,559 --> 00:55:46,239 he was unbelievably eloquent and fluent. Yes, and articulate and presented a really 704 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:52,159 made a decent fist of defending his pretty monstrous father. I thought that was 705 00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:54,519 slightly out of characters as though, and I thought, are they Is this 706 00:55:54,559 --> 00:56:00,039 a foreshadowing of Kendall's eventual victory, because you know, we see and also 707 00:56:00,079 --> 00:56:05,639 his presentation and when he gave the presentation when he wanted to kind of it 708 00:56:05,679 --> 00:56:07,639 was actually it was quite a success. You know, he managed to kind 709 00:56:07,639 --> 00:56:12,960 of talk for investors around and to share his vision static cruises. Yeah, 710 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:15,480 yeah, total nonsense, But he made a decent fist a back too, 711 00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:20,920 and he thought, arm is Kendall emerging as a player in this environment. 712 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,400 So his come upance was sort of a little bit unexpected. I thought, 713 00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:28,760 I didn't expect him to do to do to be quite so humiliated. I 714 00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,639 think you make a very good point there, and I think it's for the 715 00:56:30,679 --> 00:56:37,960 same reason that that you talked about how patriots. Um Is it patriots or 716 00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,239 patriots? I thought patriots is the American Maybe it is. I don't know 717 00:56:40,360 --> 00:56:46,360 that There's some words I'm mispronounced, like Malaysia. I said Malaysia um the 718 00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:53,800 other day, and I feel ashamed of it. Um the um I think 719 00:56:53,800 --> 00:57:00,719 it's analogous to what you said about about Patriots the early life, of of 720 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:07,519 putting him him being presented as a paragon in order to reflect so you've got 721 00:57:07,599 --> 00:57:12,039 you've got a dramatic arc. And in the same way, I think those 722 00:57:12,079 --> 00:57:19,079 two episodes you mentioned were were designed to seed in our heads the notion that 723 00:57:19,719 --> 00:57:22,119 Kendall's obviously the guy to take over the company. You know he's going to 724 00:57:22,199 --> 00:57:25,800 do it, and so and so. When you had that scene in the 725 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:31,800 Barbados house, I'm so glad the mother was Harriet Water. She's just a 726 00:57:31,880 --> 00:57:37,320 mother's brilliant. She's brilliant. Yeah, when you had because I was feared 727 00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,679 that the whole of the Fine episode would be set in a boardroom, and 728 00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,920 I was wondering how they're going to get around that, because it would have 729 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:49,400 been achingly tedious. But luckily they invented this interlude in in Barbados where we 730 00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:53,280 get to see see the children interacting as they must have done in their youth 731 00:57:53,360 --> 00:58:00,840 and sort of being brothers and sisters and teasing each other and the crowning candle, 732 00:58:00,639 --> 00:58:05,239 and again that was a that was the deception, wasn't it designed to 733 00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:08,599 lure us into thinking that it's going to be a coronation. And then suddenly 734 00:58:08,639 --> 00:58:14,719 Tom warms gams inherits the earth and his evil psychic there's even the place for 735 00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,800 his evening. Even though his evil psychics try to betray him, having misread 736 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:24,000 the room, he then forgives him, doesn't he, which is quite surprising. 737 00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:29,280 Well, so well done, Jesse Armstrong. You have the tobes and 738 00:58:29,639 --> 00:58:34,239 they get a double thumbs up from and yeah, yeah, that's four thumbs 739 00:58:34,239 --> 00:58:37,880 in total world done, Jesse. M just one last thing before we go. 740 00:58:37,039 --> 00:58:40,400 I did check out a new series yesterday which the trailer for which looked 741 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,679 quite good on Netflix called Bloodhounds. So it's a Korean series and it's about 742 00:58:45,760 --> 00:58:53,960 these two amateur boxers who take on an evil money lender um and in the 743 00:58:54,239 --> 00:58:58,360 fight scenes in the trailer looked quite good, slightly less good in the in 744 00:58:58,400 --> 00:59:00,400 the I don't know whether I'm going to watch anymore or I spent sixty minutes 745 00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:04,639 or so watching it all, you know, watching the first episode, everything 746 00:59:04,719 --> 00:59:08,239 being set up, it was okay, but a bit too long drawn out 747 00:59:08,280 --> 00:59:12,320 of it could have been reduced to thirty minutes. I'd never get away with 748 00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:17,000 it anything like that. I look, I still haven't seen Train to Busan. 749 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:21,880 That's how bad things are in my household. Right, There are certain 750 00:59:21,880 --> 00:59:24,239 things I'm not allowed to watch, all right, can't you watch them secretly? 751 00:59:25,440 --> 00:59:30,039 Yeah? But I didn't want to spend time, you know, I 752 00:59:30,159 --> 00:59:31,639 watched enough TV in the evening with the wife that to have to do it 753 00:59:31,639 --> 00:59:35,280 in my spare time as well, like going off to have a quit one 754 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,599 off the risk few notes. It was not pretty sordid, okay, all 755 00:59:38,679 --> 00:59:45,760 right, m right on that lovely note. Um okaka James next week, 756 00:59:45,039 --> 01:00:07,360 all right, But this ricochet joined the conversation