1 00:00:20,199 --> 00:00:25,559 Hey, everybody, We're here Alive and thrive in Toronto, home of blue 2 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:31,399 Jays, raptors, maple leafs, and Canadian psychic Robert Lindsay Mill. That's 3 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:37,359 me. Welcome to my side of the Crystal Ball. My guest tonight, 4 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:47,840 Pat Benicassa Uh is an artist. And when my producer Michelle suggested that that 5 00:00:48,439 --> 00:00:55,320 Pat be a guest on the show, I thought, what would an artist 6 00:00:55,399 --> 00:01:02,560 have to do with being psychic or what would an our teacher know about or 7 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:08,840 fit in to the show? I trust Michelle implicitly, and I, as 8 00:01:08,879 --> 00:01:15,640 I always do, I took her advice and we book Pat. We have 9 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:25,920 had the most fascinating conversation about art, about being psychic, and we've talked 10 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:33,840 about how we feel or how Pat feels when she's creating, when she's designing, 11 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:42,560 and it's remarkably similar to the way I do psychic readings and sessions. 12 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:49,239 Not only is it remarkably similar to what I do and during psychic readings, 13 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:57,280 her way of living her life, her commitments, her dedication is It was 14 00:01:57,359 --> 00:02:02,560 like, you know, looking at a female version of the way that I've 15 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:14,199 lived my life. Pat benacassa A remarkably fascinating interview. And of course we've 16 00:02:14,199 --> 00:02:21,240 got a ww rs before I get started on our show tonight. I've just 17 00:02:21,360 --> 00:02:23,840 got a couple of requests and you know them. So if you're watching us 18 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:30,199 on YouTube, please like, comment and subscribe to our channel, make a 19 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:35,680 comment. I know lots of you watch, so if you please make a 20 00:02:35,759 --> 00:02:42,439 comment. So what that does is that it takes our podcast and put it 21 00:02:42,479 --> 00:02:47,639 in a higher higher ranking. That that gives us access to more people, 22 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:57,479 and it gives us the access to bigger and more fascinating topics and guests. 23 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,159 Comment. Just just say something, and I promise you if you make a 24 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:08,680 comment, I'll comment back like we just just clicked out, and then subscribe 25 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:16,240 and once again we get higher up on the ratings by more subscriptions that we 26 00:03:16,319 --> 00:03:23,080 have, and subscriptions are complementary. You can also find us on YouTube like 27 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:32,120 YouTube, Apple, Spotify, iHeart and pretty much anywhere that you get your 28 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:38,840 podcasts. If you're looking for me personally, you can find me at my 29 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:46,840 website www dot Robert Lindseymilne dot com. You can also find me on Facebook, 30 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:53,000 Instagram, YouTube and TikTok oh and incidentally, you can find me on 31 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:59,960 TikTok on my side of the crystal ball as well. So we're just about 32 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:12,280 to start WWRS and I'm looking forward to sharing that with you. There are 33 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:19,360 four steps to learning, four steps to awareness and growth. The four steps 34 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:31,000 are unconscious in competence, conscious in competence, conscious competence, and unconscious competence. 35 00:04:31,519 --> 00:04:36,279 So here's how it starts off. Imagine a little child, say three 36 00:04:36,399 --> 00:04:43,199 four years old, sitting on the kitchen counter, and their mother is tying 37 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:47,839 their shoelaces. Now, I know, in today's day and age, little 38 00:04:47,879 --> 00:04:54,199 kids often don't have shoelaces, you know, they have velcrow snaps. But 39 00:04:54,519 --> 00:04:59,040 let's pretend it was when I was a little kid, and every kid had 40 00:04:59,079 --> 00:05:04,319 shoelaces. So imagine this little child sitting there on the kitchen counter, three 41 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:09,319 four, maybe even five years old, and the mother's tying up shoelaces. 42 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:14,839 The little child, whether it be girl or boy, looking around, taking 43 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:20,439 glance at everything, and maybe not even paying attention to what their mother's doing. 44 00:05:20,959 --> 00:05:31,959 So that child doesn't know that they don't know how to tie their shoelaces. 45 00:05:33,199 --> 00:05:40,639 So that's called unconscious in confidence. I don't know, I don't know 46 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:45,639 how to do it. And whenever we start something, or anytime we come 47 00:05:45,639 --> 00:05:50,639 across something new, we start off with I don't know that I don't know. 48 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:58,800 So now the little child is out playing with their friends, little girl, 49 00:05:58,959 --> 00:06:02,839 little boy playing with their friends, and all of a sudden, that 50 00:06:02,959 --> 00:06:09,959 little child who doesn't know that they don't know how to tie their shoelace, 51 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:16,040 is about to find out. They look down, see their shoes untied, 52 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:25,439 and then they reach down to try to tie them, and then they realize, 53 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:30,360 oh shit, I don't know how to do that, And now they 54 00:06:30,399 --> 00:06:42,759 are now they know that they don't know, and that's called conscious incompetence, 55 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:49,439 second stage of learning. So after a while, the child who is in 56 00:06:50,040 --> 00:07:00,639 conscious incompetence, over time practices does ties up their shoe and eventually they can 57 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:06,480 do it all. But you have to work really really hard to tie the 58 00:07:06,519 --> 00:07:16,680 shoes. But they can do it, and that's called conscious competence. I 59 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:24,480 know, I know how to do it, but it's difficult. Conscious competence. 60 00:07:25,439 --> 00:07:29,680 Now, as that child grows older and gets bigger, and when they're 61 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:35,040 a teenager, if they still don't have those valco straps, one day they'll 62 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:41,800 be bending down to tie their shoelace, and in tying their shoelace, they'll 63 00:07:41,839 --> 00:07:47,360 be able to talk talk with a friend, or make a cell phone call, 64 00:07:47,839 --> 00:07:57,600 tie up the shoelace and have something to drink as well, and they'll 65 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:05,959 tie their shoe up without even thinking it at all. And that's called unconscious 66 00:08:07,879 --> 00:08:15,439 competence. I don't even have to think about it because I know. And 67 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:22,319 there are the four steps of growth, unconscious incompetence. I don't know that. 68 00:08:22,399 --> 00:08:26,680 I don't know conscious incompetence. Oops, now I know, I don't 69 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:33,960 know conscious Consciousness means that we know, we know how to do it, 70 00:08:35,879 --> 00:08:43,559 and then the next step is unconscious competence, and that's when we just do 71 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:58,159 it. And that's what Robert has to say. How did you know you 72 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:05,039 are an artist? How did it happened? I cannot remember a time when 73 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,840 I wasn't all I know. I think I was about four and my parents 74 00:09:09,919 --> 00:09:15,440 had reader digest books all over the house, and as a little kid, 75 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:20,039 I saw the white space on the edge of those black lines, and I 76 00:09:20,039 --> 00:09:24,080 would get pencils and crayons and start drawing and making marks that did not go 77 00:09:24,279 --> 00:09:28,960 over well. I'm just going to tell you that, but I just saw 78 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:33,200 the white space and did what I thought anybody would do. You just make 79 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:41,200 marks? How could that not go over well? Just making marks and drawing 80 00:09:41,279 --> 00:09:46,120 pictures and your child? How did not not go well? I was doing 81 00:09:46,159 --> 00:09:50,039 it in their books, oh, okay books. When I opened it, 82 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:54,279 I saw that those lines, I'm thinking, oh, those black and I 83 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,360 was coloring between the lines, and I was embellishing, and you were making 84 00:09:58,399 --> 00:10:05,200 the nicer and better and more right. Okay, monks did in the middle 85 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:11,799 medieval times. Do you think you could have been one of those? I 86 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:15,320 think, oh boy, we're going to jump right into it, aren't we. 87 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,639 It seems like it. Yeah. I believe I do nothing by myself. 88 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:26,480 I believe that my beloved ancestors are always with me. They're the ones 89 00:10:28,039 --> 00:10:33,080 they're always with me. Okay. And I'm not saying ancestors. I'm saying 90 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,120 beloved ancestor because you don't want to invite riff raft. No, no, 91 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,360 no, you don't know riff raft for me either. Well sometimes, so 92 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:48,600 the best way I can say it is beloved ancestors. I just feel like 93 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,720 anything I do, they're always guiding me. Do they talk to you? 94 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:58,799 I'm not psychic? Okay, psychic Robert. Do they talk to me? 95 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:05,039 If I listen, I'm guided, okay. Uh. That means I can 96 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:09,879 pick up a piece of sheet metal and start making paintings on it and I 97 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,440 just know what to do. Okay, now is this yes? I understand 98 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:20,759 that. Okay. So do I hear them? No? But I feel 99 00:11:20,799 --> 00:11:24,519 them. I feel them inside of me. Where do you feel that? 100 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:33,120 Oh? Gosh, just uh from in you? In you? That's that's 101 00:11:33,159 --> 00:11:39,559 really a hard thing to answer. I never thought about it because I just, 102 00:11:39,799 --> 00:11:43,320 you know, I just be. I just be, okay, and 103 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:50,399 in my being they kind of share space with me. I understand. That's 104 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,879 how I do readings. So you know, I was not always this way, 105 00:11:54,759 --> 00:12:00,000 quite honestly. It wasn't until I met my partner, who's very comfortable 106 00:12:00,039 --> 00:12:05,039 with the dead and very connected. And I used to drive like when I 107 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,639 go past the cemetery. Hell, I put pedal to the metal. I 108 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,440 didn't want to think about it. So you know, when you fall in 109 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:16,240 love, people rearrange your mental furniture, right, yeah, Okay, my 110 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:22,799 mental furniture is getting rearranged. And over the years I've come to see and 111 00:12:22,919 --> 00:12:26,600 understand that. You know, I come from Italy, Italy is so small. 112 00:12:26,879 --> 00:12:31,200 My parents were born there, and I had this philosophy that the country's 113 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:37,519 so small that eventually we're all cousins somewhere along the line. Either way, 114 00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:41,480 the section of Toronto I live in is Corso, Italia. Well there you 115 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:52,440 have it. You're living right, Robert. So I just feel that when 116 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:58,080 I'm in trouble, when I need help, I just tell them I don't 117 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,440 know what the hell I'm doing here, I'm scared. What do I do? 118 00:13:01,399 --> 00:13:03,519 And uh, I don't know. I just trust them with me. 119 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:11,240 So they guide over you, your your ancestors or or your guides or are 120 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,720 they or are are they one and the same? You know what? I 121 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:18,759 don't mean this in a rude way. Does it matter? Does that's where 122 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:24,399 I am? They? It just feels like leve familiar to me. I 123 00:13:24,399 --> 00:13:28,120 can't tell you again, I don't know why. But if it's familiar, 124 00:13:28,759 --> 00:13:39,440 it's okay. And so I just know. So your ancestors guides, the 125 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:46,080 familiars, Do they guide you in what you create? Do they move your 126 00:13:46,159 --> 00:13:52,480 hand or do you sense or do you or or how does that translate from 127 00:13:52,720 --> 00:14:01,799 your familiars to guiding you? I'm thinking about your your your art, but 128 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:09,919 or is your art one in the same whoa you? Wow? These are 129 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:15,200 huge questions, magnificent questions. Let me. I wish I could be the 130 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,519 one to say yes, I'm downloaded and they move my hands. No way, 131 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,480 I have to work my butt off. Well, I brag about having 132 00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:24,879 to work my butt off being so good at my job. Okay, so 133 00:14:26,759 --> 00:14:31,480 you understand that you know absolutely creative practice. You work twelve to fifteen hours 134 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:37,159 in the studio. I research things. I have a body of work that 135 00:14:37,519 --> 00:14:45,600 I'm developing. And so for example, I was a painter for like fifteen 136 00:14:45,679 --> 00:14:48,759 years and somebody came to the studio one day and I was glazing. I 137 00:14:48,799 --> 00:14:54,080 took Reuben's technique of glazing and mixed with color as like twenty thirty layers of 138 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,919 glazing. And I said to them one day, I said, one of 139 00:14:56,919 --> 00:15:01,840 these days, I'm going to build the damn thing out of glaze. And 140 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,039 I swear to God, I thought I got hit by a bolt of lightning. 141 00:15:05,679 --> 00:15:11,759 Architects called glass glaze, and I thought, you're trying to make the 142 00:15:11,799 --> 00:15:18,440 canvas a piece of glass. I immediately got rid of all the painting stuff. 143 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:22,000 I put it in boxes. I called the glass company and had them 144 00:15:22,039 --> 00:15:28,240 deliver two panels of three foot by eight foot glass. They delivered it, 145 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,559 it's in my studio. I'm thinking, yeah, yeah, glass, And 146 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:37,799 I thought, oh god, now what you know, I just knew I 147 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,840 had to work in glass. Now where does that come from? Okay? 148 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:50,559 And then there's this percent for Art competition, national competition to design a skylight 149 00:15:50,879 --> 00:15:56,000 for the Minnesota Judicial Building on the State campbellol Grounds. So I thought, 150 00:15:56,159 --> 00:16:00,360 oh, because I started working in glass, I thought I'm gonna I'm going 151 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:06,000 to submit to that because that's going to accelerate my learning curve. Yeah, 152 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:12,200 that's what of Well, not only did I enter it, I want it. 153 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:18,480 Wow. Now let me explain that. Okay, at the time, 154 00:16:18,039 --> 00:16:21,919 I was going through a divorce. It was the worst time in my life. 155 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,360 My family lives in Michigan. I was really scared and and I couldn't 156 00:16:26,399 --> 00:16:30,159 confide in them because my dad was kind of sick and I didn't want a 157 00:16:30,159 --> 00:16:32,720 burden. You know, it's an Italian thing, you know, you just 158 00:16:32,799 --> 00:16:34,200 tough it out. You keep it to yourself, and that's what you do. 159 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,480 And a discovery we well, wasps do that too, do they? 160 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:45,320 Oh? Oh, we might have the Italians beat on that one. Okay, 161 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,600 you then I yield to that. Okay, you don't understand what I'm 162 00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:57,360 saying too. And so what happened was I researched who was on the committee 163 00:16:57,399 --> 00:17:03,240 to select the artwork. There were ten people, State Supreme Court, people, 164 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:07,799 designers, there was a whole group. I researched every one of them, 165 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,240 their lives. I wanted to know what they had for breakfast, and 166 00:17:10,279 --> 00:17:14,839 them I wanted to know. And I subsequently found out that the architect had 167 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,039 already picked who he wanted, and it was this guy that was really famous 168 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:25,160 doing these judicial skylights. And I can remember the day when it came to 169 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,640 me, you got to stop being scared. Either you go for broke, 170 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,400 but you sure as hell have to stop being scared. So I cleaned out 171 00:17:33,599 --> 00:17:40,799 my savings account and I built a six foot by seven foot birch plywood replica 172 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:47,200 of the building. And I thought, I don't like flat First of all, 173 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:48,839 I don't like flat windows. It really makes me crazy, you know. 174 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,920 Okay, So I thought, I'm not going to make a flat skylight. 175 00:17:52,279 --> 00:17:55,759 Who and you can get that a diamond dozen So I made a three 176 00:17:55,799 --> 00:18:00,720 dimensional skylight. It hadn't been done before. And then I I saw pieces 177 00:18:00,759 --> 00:18:04,599 of glass leaning on my studio wall, overlapping, and I saw it. 178 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,000 I thought, oh my god, the colors mix, the light goes through 179 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:15,319 these glass over holy you know, okay you could say it go aheads, 180 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,559 okay, so any word you want to say it. I'm just it was 181 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:23,839 like an epiphany, a freakin epiphany, and then I knew what to do. 182 00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:27,000 So the you know, it was a three foot by four foot model 183 00:18:27,039 --> 00:18:30,240 and glass. We lifted it, flipped it over, put it in the 184 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:36,720 birch plywood model. And the irony was the guy that presented before me, 185 00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:40,920 who had it in the bag, showed a wax paper quarter inch model. 186 00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:48,839 He really thought he had it. I showed sixteen x twenty color photographs replicating 187 00:18:48,279 --> 00:18:52,480 that model I had built with different light forms to see what that light would 188 00:18:52,519 --> 00:19:02,000 look like on cloudy days, bright days. So long story short, it 189 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:08,160 it happened, and now I almost failed high school geometry. But I have 190 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:14,960 a passion. I can see geometry. I can see it, and I 191 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:22,200 love literally see it or or or or know it seeing it. What when 192 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,480 people say, how the hell did you make that skyline? I just saw 193 00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:27,920 it. I mean I just I saw it in knowing. I don't know 194 00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:33,640 if English has words for this, Okay, okay, because because I don't, 195 00:19:33,839 --> 00:19:37,160 well, I do, but I don't see. I I sense and 196 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:44,680 feel uh and sink and but but sometimes I could describe a color and know 197 00:19:44,759 --> 00:19:48,440 what the color is, but not necessarily see it. But but it's there, 198 00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:52,799 and I know it, and and I can describe it and and and 199 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,920 make my client or show my clients so they'll understand. See. Now, 200 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,359 I just thought that was seeing what you just described, except it's not visual. 201 00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:07,440 When I'm doing psychic things, it's not usually visual. It's it's sinking. 202 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:15,960 Okay. I think it's a combination of of of of knowing what these 203 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:21,319 compound angles would do. But again, I I almost flunked high school geometry, 204 00:20:21,839 --> 00:20:25,960 and I I don't know these these equations at why excess hanging out with 205 00:20:26,039 --> 00:20:29,799 why? I don't give a red? When when you get inspired like that, 206 00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,839 do you see the finished product or does it get built piece by piece 207 00:20:34,319 --> 00:20:38,240 in your minds? Okay, shift, we're gonna shift here, Okay, 208 00:20:38,319 --> 00:20:44,640 good. I'm artists in residents at this Catholic school. Okay. They wanted 209 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,759 me to be a teacher there or you know, to teach in the art 210 00:20:47,799 --> 00:20:49,359 department. I said, no way. I went to Catholic school. You 211 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,960 get me as a residence. I'll redesign your art department, but I'm not 212 00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,920 going to teach. You know, art and Catholic schools they don't they don't 213 00:20:56,039 --> 00:20:59,640 work. Okay, But if I come in, it's gonna work. Do 214 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,640 you want to do it? Yeah? Yeah, come on. So they 215 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:07,039 built this chapel. Robert and the president of the school is standing by this 216 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,160 fourteen foot by eight foot window and he said, no, pat outside that 217 00:21:12,279 --> 00:21:21,000 window. We're going to have a steel crucifix across out there. And I 218 00:21:21,079 --> 00:21:25,319 turned to him. I said, Joe, what the hell are you thinking? 219 00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:32,440 A steel cross? No, what you need is a three dimensional chapel 220 00:21:32,519 --> 00:21:41,079 windows with a glass cross perched on limestone boulders with an overlay of Saint Matthew's 221 00:21:41,079 --> 00:21:45,200 clouds forming in the sky. That's what you need. It came out of 222 00:21:45,279 --> 00:21:51,799 my mouth so fast. In my mind, I'm going, what are you 223 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,359 doing? Where's this coming from? What's going on? Just hell up? 224 00:21:56,799 --> 00:22:00,519 And Joe looks at me. I said no, no, no, no 225 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,319 steel cross of anything. He said, then show me, So I said, 226 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:10,039 no problem. Oh, God, you know really okay? So I 227 00:22:10,039 --> 00:22:12,960 went back to my studio and I went in. I thought, what did 228 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,200 you just do? I always had this conversation. Now what that is my 229 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:22,480 that's my refrain. Now what did you do? And I got a hot 230 00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:30,480 blue gun. I grabbed glass rocks from outside and I built the first three 231 00:22:30,559 --> 00:22:37,240 D sketch of that window. I built it and it was about a foot 232 00:22:37,240 --> 00:22:40,799 and a half. I saw it. I put it all together and crude 233 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,359 form. You know people do sketches. I do three D sketches. Wow, 234 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,559 And there it was, and I knew. I thought, my God, 235 00:22:48,799 --> 00:22:53,920 to me, that's from my ancestors to me. I've been given that, 236 00:22:59,039 --> 00:23:03,839 and you chose to accept it. Choose to accept it. If you're 237 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:11,000 given the gift, you chose to accept it, because if you didn't accept 238 00:23:11,079 --> 00:23:15,599 it, you wouldn't have worked your ass off. I God, I didn't 239 00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:18,640 even think about the accepting. I was just so blown away by the concept. 240 00:23:18,839 --> 00:23:22,680 But you could have said no, you know what, there's always time 241 00:23:22,759 --> 00:23:27,160 for a no, Robert, here's time for no. But this was as 242 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:33,440 you did, choose it as an artist. I could not walk away from 243 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:41,240 that. It took my breath away. Yes, I understand. So, 244 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,599 uh, I do situations like that when I'm talking to someone about a project 245 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:49,640 and then I start describing it. Yes, I go back to the studio 246 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,319 and that's that same conversation. Now, what are you going to do? 247 00:23:52,519 --> 00:23:56,440 Where the hell did that come from? You know? Now I kind of 248 00:23:56,519 --> 00:24:00,839 laugh at it, But when I get that, I I know that it's 249 00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:07,039 coming from somewhere and I trust it. And it's ever given me a bad 250 00:24:07,079 --> 00:24:12,880 direction. Ever, so that it that has never led you in a bad 251 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,599 direction? Do you know what it is? I just think it's my my 252 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:25,880 ancestors guiding me. Okay, do you have any part of it? Of 253 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,519 course I do, other than other than physically doing it? Or do you 254 00:24:30,079 --> 00:24:34,440 or is it your ancestors guiding you giving that information? I think it's a 255 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:40,279 combo plate is absolutely. I don't think you can be an empty, empty 256 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,720 vessel to work like this. Sure. No, if I were a flatliner, 257 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:48,960 if I you know, everything was just you know, if I didn't 258 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,119 invest my heart into something, I won't do it. If I'm not invested, 259 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:59,559 you won't get it. Okay. So if I am invested and passionate 260 00:25:00,319 --> 00:25:03,079 and dedicated, yes, of course, physically do my best to build this. 261 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,119 Of course they're going to be a part of it, but they can't 262 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:12,440 work with a wet rag. No, I don't think it's possible. So 263 00:25:12,799 --> 00:25:19,599 were you the chosen one? No? Okay, now I don't mean like 264 00:25:21,039 --> 00:25:27,079 the great spiritual master. Were you the chosen one to do this? I 265 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:33,079 don't think in those terms, honestly, Robert. It sounds too elitist to 266 00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:41,960 me. Two exclusive, I don't know about chosen anything. My education was 267 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:49,680 a disaster, absolute disaster, from first grade till I left graduate school. 268 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,880 I went to Catholic school, and because I'm dyslexic, I'm a d D. 269 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,599 I don't learn in that academic way, and I was put in the 270 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:08,119 dumbass classes right away, and I was programmed that way, and I always 271 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,599 kept drawing. And then when I went to high school, I was told, 272 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,079 you're not going to college because you're not gonna use people. You're just 273 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:18,039 not gonna be anything. Don't don't even think about it. It's not for 274 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:25,160 you. And so, uh, it was horrendous. I was made fun 275 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,920 of because when I read the words would jump around and they would the nun 276 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:32,160 would call me to the front of the room and say, this is what 277 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,920 a stupid little girl looks like reading. Oh wow, really if they did 278 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:42,039 that today? Oh wow, can you imagine? But what I'll tell us 279 00:26:42,279 --> 00:26:47,039 actually I can? Well yeah, yeah, you know, I just have 280 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,400 to interrupt you for just just one moment. The things that you're the way 281 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,079 you're describing how you do your work, how you live your life, what 282 00:26:57,160 --> 00:27:07,440 you've been through is an artistic a painter, a woman artist describing exactly what, 283 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:14,279 very similar to my background. And I'm listening, and I'm listening to 284 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:18,480 a thinking That's why I'm asking you the questions that I'm asking from that level 285 00:27:18,559 --> 00:27:22,119 is because oh, that's how I do it when I'm being psychic. Hmmm. 286 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:26,839 Okay, That's why I was asking those questions. The way I was 287 00:27:26,079 --> 00:27:32,680 is because you're describing your process is very similar. Uh and and and your 288 00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:37,920 life pattern is very similar to mine. Okay, That's why I was asking 289 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,720 those questions that you know, I'm thinking, Wow, this is like me 290 00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:51,599 talking well sympatical. Yeah, just a different just just a different venue of 291 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,079 expressing ourselves. But but the way you're getting to it is is very similar 292 00:27:56,119 --> 00:28:03,160 to to how I do it. Hmhm. So that's why I've been asking 293 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:08,839 that or asking these questions. I was sitting here blown away by where does 294 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:15,680 art come from? And does it come from the same place for everybody? 295 00:28:15,559 --> 00:28:21,839 That's a good question. I maybe another way to ask it is why do 296 00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:25,920 we need to express ourselves? Why do we? Oh? Okay, I 297 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,480 know that right. Why do we need to express ourselves? Why do we 298 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:37,880 long to make our mark or to say something? What is it that drives 299 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:44,279 us to take material and make it into something else? What is that? 300 00:28:45,319 --> 00:28:49,559 What is art? What is the need for human beings to go beyond what 301 00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:56,240 they know and to make something that connects with others? What is that? 302 00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:04,640 What the hell is that? Do you know? I? You know? 303 00:29:04,759 --> 00:29:11,279 When I I was teaching for many years, Okay, even though education I 304 00:29:11,319 --> 00:29:17,319 hated it. I love teaching and I love being in the classroom with students. 305 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:19,839 I taught art college and art high school, and I love those kids 306 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,839 fiercely because they dreamed to be something and make Okay, I got Okay. 307 00:29:25,519 --> 00:29:27,200 When I teach, they would say, Oh, she's going in the ad 308 00:29:27,279 --> 00:29:30,599 D car. I'm going to park the car now and come back and answer 309 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:37,680 your question. Okay, I got that question. So often you're like, 310 00:29:37,759 --> 00:29:41,640 WHOA, what is art? Pat? What is it, okay, And 311 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:48,160 I think every artist has to find that answer personally. And for me, 312 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:55,440 it happened when I read Martin Heideger, and he asked the question what is 313 00:29:55,759 --> 00:30:02,400 a thing And the answer was, you know what a thing is by the 314 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:07,880 way it gathers the world unto itself. Oh my god, it knocked the 315 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:11,480 wind right out of me. I thought, Yes, art is a point 316 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:19,720 of proximity that dissolves the distinction between our here and there and pulls us towards 317 00:30:19,839 --> 00:30:32,400 itself and each other. That's my definition of art. Okay, that's a 318 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:36,799 little deep for me. I'm going to have to be listening to that over 319 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,720 and over again. It's a little can I say it differently? So if 320 00:30:41,759 --> 00:30:47,160 you have a table, yes, and you put the salt shaker on the 321 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,039 table, yes, all of a sudden everything is in relation to the salt 322 00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:55,920 shaker on the table if there's nothing else on the table, Okay, yes, 323 00:30:56,039 --> 00:30:57,640 right, okay. So when you put an object on the table, 324 00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:02,799 it becomes a point of proximity on that empty table, and what it doesn't 325 00:31:02,839 --> 00:31:10,039 affect it gathers much the same way as I spent years making abstract paintings, 326 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:15,559 taking the geometry from Persian rugs and breaking it down. Okay, what does 327 00:31:15,559 --> 00:31:22,519 a rug do? It gathers the room around itself. It gathers the room 328 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:30,200 around itself. So if you look at a room with yes, and you're 329 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,400 standing there white walls, it's a room with a floor and white walls. 330 00:31:36,519 --> 00:31:41,119 Down that carpet, yes, which I'm looking at right now. I'm sure 331 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:45,440 you are, and over a wood floor, all right, so you have 332 00:31:45,559 --> 00:31:51,880 the visual when that carpet is in that room, it becomes the point that 333 00:31:52,000 --> 00:32:00,720 gathers everything around the room. Walls are around that, it pulls it all 334 00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:04,440 together. Okay, yes, I got it, got it? Okay. 335 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,400 So Heidiger says it in a more fancy way. But and I'm not trying 336 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:14,480 to be ridiculous with language or talk art art smart sound. You sound like 337 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:19,000 a pretty down to earth coming. I don't. I don't do that, 338 00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:24,960 But I do love the notion that that a thing gathers the world unto itself. 339 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,160 And I thought that was such a poignant way of thinking of a piece 340 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:35,519 of music. You can listen to a Beethoven piece two hundred three hundred years 341 00:32:35,599 --> 00:32:43,319 later and it cuts across gender, nations, boundaries, maps, time, 342 00:32:43,839 --> 00:32:49,920 place, and rips right through the heart of you. Right, yes, 343 00:32:50,279 --> 00:32:55,440 yes, I'm talking about right there. That's it. WHOA Okay, I 344 00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,200 see that, So did I answer you? What is art? I remember 345 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,039 one time several years ago, I was visiting a friend in Ottawa and she 346 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:12,279 wanted to take me to the National Art Gallery. And I'd never been to 347 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:15,200 one, and I didn't want to go. It was a terribly cold winter's 348 00:33:15,319 --> 00:33:20,799 day and it was like a blizzard out, and she dragged me out to 349 00:33:20,839 --> 00:33:24,759 go to the Art Museum. And when we first went in, I don't 350 00:33:24,799 --> 00:33:28,880 know how we ended up in the spot we were in. We were in 351 00:33:28,559 --> 00:33:38,039 the Modern Art and there was this one exhibit where a model a board was 352 00:33:38,119 --> 00:33:43,400 taken apart in pieces put on the floor, and you know, somebody paid 353 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,839 one hundred thousand dollars to call that art, and I got really mad at 354 00:33:46,839 --> 00:33:52,680 that kind of stuff. We then went for a walk and walked through into 355 00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:58,200 the Master's section. I'd never been there, But when I walked in this 356 00:33:58,359 --> 00:34:02,480 huge room with all these men asters paintings on it, there was one that 357 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:09,599 caught my eye way down the back and it reached out and it was moving 358 00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:16,480 wow, And and it was one of Vincent's yep. And and and when 359 00:34:16,519 --> 00:34:23,480 I looked at it, I said, he was angry and I could feel 360 00:34:23,519 --> 00:34:28,280 his anger. So it was from when was he alive in the late seventeen 361 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:34,400 hundreds or eighteen and Bengo, yeah, eighteen fifties, eighteen sixties. Yeah, 362 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:40,719 and his and his that that that painting just came alive and it thrived. 363 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,360 The energy, it just it was. It was unbelievable. So again, 364 00:34:45,519 --> 00:34:52,639 like you're talking about Beethoven and his music from listening to it three hundred 365 00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:59,559 years ago and yeah, wow, okay, so art doesn't have to be 366 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:04,280 a pain. It can be music, it can be Yes, it's so 367 00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:09,159 it's it's a living, breathing energy. You know, you're the second person 368 00:35:09,199 --> 00:35:15,320 that asked me that. And uh, there's an energetic level. Yeah, 369 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:19,880 we have it as human beings. I think objects have it. I think 370 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:24,199 that the whole animus mundi, that which is all connected in the world is 371 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:30,719 energetic. And so how can art and not have that kind of energy? 372 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:36,880 Okay, I do believe there's you know, I also think like place has 373 00:35:37,039 --> 00:35:42,280 memory, place has memory. So for example, a lot I did a 374 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:50,679 series of paintings of demolished industrial sites on sheet metal and I would build these 375 00:35:50,679 --> 00:35:53,280 industrial sites and paint them, build them on sheet metal. There were sheet 376 00:35:53,280 --> 00:36:00,119 metal paintings, and as I was doing it, I realized play has memory, 377 00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:07,039 and these these paintings function like the memories they have become because they don't 378 00:36:07,039 --> 00:36:12,320 exist anymore, but they're in our collective consciousness growing up. And you saw 379 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,599 these factories when you drive by the road. They're embedded in the I don't 380 00:36:16,599 --> 00:36:20,760 know zeitgeist, if you want to say, of where we grow up. 381 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,920 So I do think place has memory. People say when they go to Gettysburg 382 00:36:25,599 --> 00:36:35,960 that it's palpable, that they feel right, and that also so I would 383 00:36:36,039 --> 00:36:45,400 say it as it holds energy from it holds energy from the time it was 384 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,880 created or at Gettysburg when when all that stuff was going on in Gettysburg. 385 00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:55,119 That energy the vibes stay there. Or you can go to the coliseum and 386 00:36:55,159 --> 00:36:59,519 put your hand on the walls. They'll let you get that close and you 387 00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:05,039 can feel the energy from the centuries. Oh yeah, okay, okay, 388 00:37:05,119 --> 00:37:10,000 that's yes, yep, And that's like that that's being psychic, Okay. 389 00:37:10,159 --> 00:37:14,840 I I don't think of myself as being psychic. Yeah I do, though 390 00:37:15,159 --> 00:37:19,239 you are. You're the real real well, and you're the real deal too 391 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:24,639 in your field. So but I'm what I'm blown away by is the way 392 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:30,639 you're saying things. You're you're saying things in the way I think, only 393 00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:36,280 differently. You're saying them differently, but the ideas are the same, the 394 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:39,719 concepts are the same, which is which is really blowing me away. Well, 395 00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:45,079 I'm a visual person, so I would manifest this in a much more 396 00:37:45,199 --> 00:37:51,840 visual kind of way. And I don't know. I think of psychic as 397 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:53,960 doing things from the inside out. That you have this inner eye, this 398 00:37:54,119 --> 00:37:59,840 inner way of knowing, you just feel it, you know things. Yes, 399 00:38:00,199 --> 00:38:05,199 now a lot of my contemporaries have well actually I'm older than them all, 400 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:08,880 but but I'm not sure if they're my contemporaries anymore. But anyway, 401 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:17,920 people seem to uh sense their energy and can can actually see uh and describe 402 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:24,320 it like like a painting. I can, but I'm not necessarily seeing the 403 00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:30,960 painting or or the color. I just know that it's there. Okay. 404 00:38:30,119 --> 00:38:37,679 In my real life though, I do see color and and and when I'm 405 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:45,239 doing something, I see things in balance and and energy and balance and colors 406 00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:50,880 and balance, and and I can look at a at a at a room 407 00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:57,199 and and see where where it needs a certain color or a certain type of 408 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:02,960 shape or whatever. But it's I don't see it. I just know it, 409 00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:08,159 Okay, I understand that. I would say that when I did get 410 00:39:08,159 --> 00:39:15,039 into education, I went in dragging and kicking because I hated education. I 411 00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:19,320 was very as a younger artist. I was very rageful because of my horrific 412 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,360 education. I really had a chip on my shoulder the size of Nebraska. 413 00:39:23,079 --> 00:39:29,079 And it wasn't until yes, when you get a little bit older, when 414 00:39:29,119 --> 00:39:32,400 you stop knowing everything. It wasn't until god, in my forties that one 415 00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,519 day I realized. I almost saus. I was like, about what five 416 00:39:37,599 --> 00:39:40,719 years ago when you had that realization. Oh, you're very kind. I 417 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:47,559 think we're contemporaries. I think we are. I'm in my seventh decade. 418 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,719 Really, yeah, you look fabulous. I'm seventy three myself. So you 419 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,599 got you got two years, you got two years on me, that's all. 420 00:39:57,079 --> 00:40:02,360 Oh, so stee, we're contemporary, we are we are there you 421 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:08,960 go. So I was so bitter about the way I was treated as an 422 00:40:09,159 --> 00:40:15,960 education and it wasn't until I left graduate school. I got to graduate degrees 423 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,199 to say that to the people that kept telling me I wouldn't amount to anything. 424 00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:22,599 I had to do that. I just had to do that. And 425 00:40:22,679 --> 00:40:28,800 I also thought because to be an artist, I needed those degrees, which 426 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:31,440 is the truth of the matter. Is the day I got my MFA, 427 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,079 I took the certificate back to the Masters of Fine Art. Yes, I'm 428 00:40:37,119 --> 00:40:39,760 sorry, Master, I took that certificate. I brought it back to the 429 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:45,679 studio and I burned it with a match, really, and I made it. 430 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,320 I'm formerly Catholic, so if everything's a ritual, so I burned it 431 00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:52,760 and I said to myself, this is not going to make me an artist. 432 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:58,880 Only a lifetime of work will determine whether or not I'm an artist. 433 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:06,880 That gives me goosebumps. Because I say that about being a psycher, then 434 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:14,159 you understand, well, absolutely, yeah. It's the purpose of my life 435 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:21,639 and I've spent my entire life doing it exactly exactly. There was one time 436 00:41:21,679 --> 00:41:24,639 I was being interviewed. It was in the late seventies. I was being 437 00:41:24,679 --> 00:41:30,159 interviewed by this It was out in the West coastin and it was at the 438 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:39,880 Vancouver Sun newspaper, and she was a very masculine woman and very masculinely dressed, 439 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:46,360 and she was crabby, and she didn't particularly like me, and she 440 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:51,320 said to me. It was at this time she said, so you know, 441 00:41:52,079 --> 00:41:58,239 how long are your readings? And I said half an hour? And 442 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:02,920 she said, well, how much she charged? And I said eighty dollars 443 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,360 and she said eighty dollars a half an hour. How come you charge eighty 444 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,559 dollars for half an hour? And I looked at her and said, because 445 00:42:12,599 --> 00:42:20,039 I can't get a hundred, and she went ballistic, just crazy. And 446 00:42:20,119 --> 00:42:27,519 then and then she said, you're you're gonna lose your gift. You're too 447 00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:31,239 greedy. And what are you gonna do when you lose your gift? And 448 00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:37,800 this is what I said to her. Well, first of all, I 449 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:45,800 will never lose it, but if I did, I wouldn't have a purpose 450 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:51,519 to be alive. Yeah, And then I know what her response was that 451 00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:58,280 but but at that, you know, so, so I've been we often, 452 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:01,239 I don't know about artists, but certain psychics often if we make a 453 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:07,960 good living, we're abusing our talents and our skills. You know, let's 454 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:14,360 walk down that road for a moment. When I taught, when I taught, 455 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:22,079 I would tell students, beware of people talking to you about selling out. 456 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:27,639 First of all, the people that were screaming at me in grad school 457 00:43:27,639 --> 00:43:31,440 about selling out were professors making eighty to ninety thousand a year, so easy 458 00:43:31,639 --> 00:43:37,519 too, And so I just said to students, what is wrong with earning 459 00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:43,199 a living, earning your daily bread by the gifts you've been given. Don't 460 00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:47,880 let anybody start walking down that road with you, because it's nonsense. Right, 461 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:53,199 You are the caretaker and guardian of your talent, absolutely, you steady 462 00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:59,199 on. So there's always that chorus of people's, well, if you earn 463 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,039 money, you're selling, am I supposed to give it away? So does 464 00:44:01,079 --> 00:44:05,719 a brain surgeon say, well, I love doing brain surgery. I don't 465 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:12,039 have to charge for this. I mean, that's just irritating. I have 466 00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:15,960 the same feelings. You know, it's fun watching you go through it too, 467 00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:28,000 And I get really, you know, surprised when when people think that 468 00:44:28,039 --> 00:44:31,719 way, they're often those that can't do it as well. Yeah also right 469 00:44:32,039 --> 00:44:37,920 often or or they're not doing so well in their life. So but I 470 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:42,320 can't be responsible for where they're at in their life to hurt my talent or 471 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,039 my dreams or my passo. Absolutely, that kind of negative energy siphons, 472 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,159 and we have to be careful of who we surround ourselves with. Absolutely. 473 00:44:53,400 --> 00:45:05,480 So as you proudly proclaim how dedicated and committed you are, well we can. 474 00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:07,880 You know, when I was about twenty one, I'd been doing my 475 00:45:08,039 --> 00:45:15,239 job as a psychic for six years and I was close to my ten my 476 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:22,599 ten thousand hours by the time I was in my early twenties. And when 477 00:45:22,599 --> 00:45:27,000 I was about twenty one, I heard that if a young man, when 478 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:31,199 a young man becomes a priest, he makes a vow to say a mass 479 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:36,000 every day of his life. And so at about twenty one years old, 480 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,920 I made a vow that I would do either do a psychic reading or practice 481 00:45:42,000 --> 00:45:45,000 doing a psychic reading every day of my life. And I made it to 482 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:52,320 just thirty years, just before I missed the day. Wow, that's a 483 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:57,239 wonderful story. Yeah, And it's about it's about being committed, yes, 484 00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,920 yes, absolutely, which is how you get good. Absolutely, if something's 485 00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:05,360 going to happen, I want to be in the studio when it happened. 486 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:10,920 Absolutely. Yeah. So you got really good as an artist, teacher, 487 00:46:13,119 --> 00:46:22,519 educator because of your commitment while you had the talent, your commitment to expand 488 00:46:22,639 --> 00:46:28,880 it, grow at make it greater is what's done. At you had the 489 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:35,519 ability, you chose to develop it and work hard at it, because you 490 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:42,400 never would have been as good had you not. I just can't imagine doing 491 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,880 anything without putting my heart in it. And I would tell students if I'm 492 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,840 not in the studio making art, I sure as hell I'm not going to 493 00:46:49,840 --> 00:47:00,320 be in your teaching art, right. So I do think that for me, 494 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:04,440 it was the outrage of just being so bitter about the horrible education I 495 00:47:04,519 --> 00:47:07,840 had that and then realizing one day that I was given a gift, that 496 00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:15,360 whole thing was a marvelous gift. And when I understood that, it made 497 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,119 me the teacher that I am. How old were you when you saw that, 498 00:47:20,519 --> 00:47:23,840 Well, I got divorced when I was what it was eighty nine, 499 00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:29,559 I was in my forties, and so I carried that chip for a long 500 00:47:29,679 --> 00:47:35,159 time. And also when I moved to Minneapolis from Detroit, I got out 501 00:47:35,159 --> 00:47:37,239 of graduate school and I found a warehouse space because that's what you need to 502 00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:40,880 do. And I start hanging around with these kids from the Minneapolis College of 503 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,000 Art and Design and go have beer and coffee. God, they would be 504 00:47:45,039 --> 00:47:51,079 talking about artists, philosophers, writers, scientists. Robert I didn't know who 505 00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:53,800 the hell they were talking about. Because I was so busy trying to learn 506 00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:58,800 and keep my nose above the water line to pass college. I didn't learn 507 00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,199 jack. So every time I was with those kids or those people, I 508 00:48:04,199 --> 00:48:07,280 would excuse myself go to the bathroom. I had a notebook. I'd write 509 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,159 down every philosopher, every book, and then I'd start reading. Like a 510 00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:15,880 crazy mother, I would read everything. And so five years, seven hundred 511 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,199 books later, I was just devoured. I had a passion to read because 512 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:27,960 it was a joy. I didn't have to stutter and the name shamed. 513 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:30,039 I could open a book, and I found my teachers in those books. 514 00:48:30,599 --> 00:48:36,639 I found Emily Dickenson fought. I found Paul Robison, you know. I 515 00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:40,639 found Emma Goldman, I found Albert Camu. I found them. Those were 516 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:46,079 my education, Those are my teachers, and i'd bring those with me when 517 00:48:46,079 --> 00:48:57,599 I went into that classroom. When you bring them with you, are they 518 00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:05,239 your memories of them or does their energy manifest in you when you're bringing them 519 00:49:05,559 --> 00:49:07,480 with you. I don't know, Robert, I don't know how to answer. 520 00:49:07,559 --> 00:49:12,440 All I know is they My life was never the same because of them. 521 00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,800 So do I carry them like change in my pocket? I don't know. 522 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,719 But you know, when I want iron will tender heart, I think 523 00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:24,039 of Emma Goldman. When I want to think the prose of rage, I 524 00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:30,320 think James Baldwin Man. Yeah. Yeah, when I want to dive into 525 00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,840 the mystery, it's roomy. So do I am I I don't know where 526 00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,280 they are with me or not with me. They they helped me grow up, 527 00:49:38,639 --> 00:49:44,599 Okay, they schooled me. So what that means is when I had 528 00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:47,639 that revelation if a kid was when the students came into my class, I 529 00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:52,880 could read every one of those kids energetically. I could tell you who was 530 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:55,000 doing self harm. I could tell you whose parents were going through a divorce. 531 00:49:55,079 --> 00:49:59,039 I could tell you who thought they were the greatest thing in art. 532 00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:02,360 They didn't have to say a word, just one. I knew it. 533 00:50:02,679 --> 00:50:08,760 I knew those kids the energy when you were the teacher or a student too, 534 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:15,159 when I was a teacher. When I became a teacher and accepted the 535 00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:21,000 gift of that horrendous that I was given guidelines what never, ever, ever, 536 00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:23,039 ever to do to a student. That's what those years were about. 537 00:50:23,519 --> 00:50:30,679 So I did the reverse. I made education alive. I made it something 538 00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:35,000 that it's joyful, it's fun, and you work your ass off and you 539 00:50:35,039 --> 00:50:38,679 see things happening. And each kid had I was a broken record. Trust 540 00:50:38,679 --> 00:50:44,400 your instincts, don't trust me. Trust your instincts. You've got them. 541 00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:47,639 You've got them. So all the things I didn't learn, or you know, 542 00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:52,559 they tried to pound out of me was the very thing I brought into 543 00:50:52,599 --> 00:50:55,000 the classroom. And boy, you want to talk about magic. Oh my 544 00:50:55,199 --> 00:51:06,440 god, that's magic man who just but your your words are just go with 545 00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,159 your instincts. Is that what you said? Trust yours your instincts. Here's 546 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:17,280 my line. Become aware of what's obvious and then more becomes obvious. Oh 547 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:23,039 that's nice. I made it up. And when when you become aware of 548 00:51:23,079 --> 00:51:30,360 what's more obvious and more obvious, more becomes obvious, until you get to 549 00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:36,199 a point of what's obvious to you isn't obvious to other people. There you 550 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,559 go, right, Okay, well that's how you do it. And that's 551 00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:43,800 how people be psychic too. Okay, that's how I teach my students. 552 00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:45,920 How to be psychic, become aware of what's obvious. Look at look at 553 00:51:45,960 --> 00:51:52,719 what's in front of you, see them. Yeah, huh, this is 554 00:51:52,800 --> 00:52:02,199 fun. It's it's really it's it's well, your energy is really a lot 555 00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:07,079 of fun. But but it's it's it's it's it's really fun hearing you speak 556 00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:14,559 about what you do the same way I speak about what I do with the 557 00:52:14,599 --> 00:52:23,760 same sense of commitment, dedication, awareness, fulfillment. And the only way 558 00:52:23,760 --> 00:52:28,519 you can get all that is to also fall on your face. Oh yes, 559 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:36,880 oh absolutely, yeah, oh yeah, because because in my thinking is, 560 00:52:37,079 --> 00:52:38,039 you know, what we have to do one way, what we do 561 00:52:38,119 --> 00:52:42,559 one way, we must do equally the opposite. We have to know, 562 00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,400 we have to see both sides before we can understand. So that that's my 563 00:52:46,519 --> 00:52:52,039 thinking as well. It's really fascinating talking about how you do your work, 564 00:52:52,079 --> 00:52:54,639 and well I wanted to get to the inside part because because your work, 565 00:52:55,039 --> 00:53:04,480 your your art that's on your website is stand alone. It doesn't have to 566 00:53:04,519 --> 00:53:09,199 be add words added to what you do. It stands alone in its beauty. 567 00:53:09,719 --> 00:53:15,280 It's fun talking with you about how you think, how you put all 568 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:20,119 that beauty together. That's and that's where I wanted to focus on. I 569 00:53:20,159 --> 00:53:22,840 don't know what other people wanted to talk to you about, but that's what 570 00:53:22,920 --> 00:53:29,599 I wanted to talk with you about, okay, which is what we've been 571 00:53:29,639 --> 00:53:35,280 doing absolutely. So what would do if you were just going to talk on 572 00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:43,159 your own? What would you say? Now? Well, I've always followed 573 00:53:43,159 --> 00:53:50,280 the idea. Yes, I always follow the idea, which means when I 574 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:52,679 was coming up in art school, you had to do one thing, like 575 00:53:52,679 --> 00:53:53,960 if you were a painter, you had to do you painting your whole life. 576 00:53:54,159 --> 00:53:58,480 Okay, you had to stay with one thing and develop it. I 577 00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:01,280 didn't. I was a painter, and then I started working with glass and 578 00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:07,159 steel, and then I started working in sheet metal, and then, you 579 00:54:07,159 --> 00:54:14,159 know, I will follow the idea wherever it takes me. And I'm an 580 00:54:14,559 --> 00:54:16,679 iconoclass. In other words, I don't. I don't say, oh, 581 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:22,119 sheep metal is for building. Hell? No, sheet metal is a gorgeous 582 00:54:22,119 --> 00:54:25,960 surface to make art on. You know. Shards of glass can make a 583 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,000 portrait of somebody, oh yeah, or pieces of dried wood. That piece 584 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:37,079 that you talked about, the Jewish Star of David I did, It's called 585 00:54:37,079 --> 00:54:43,119 the Mogan David. How do you remember what you never forget. And that 586 00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:47,280 piece I made out of throwaway bleached wood. Wow, and it started to 587 00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,599 form. And when I grabbed the story behind it was a dear friend of 588 00:54:52,639 --> 00:54:57,639 mine told me that she just found out that her husband's family during World War 589 00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:00,440 II in Eastern Europe, they found a great with three hundred bodies in it. 590 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:06,760 And I said to her, send me the names. I need to 591 00:55:06,800 --> 00:55:09,639 see the names. She sent them to me, and I remember being in 592 00:55:09,679 --> 00:55:15,360 the studio and I start. I said the names out loud. I just 593 00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,039 said the names out loud. I went down the list, and as I 594 00:55:19,199 --> 00:55:23,360 was doing it, I started grabbing this wood. I started putting pieces together, 595 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:30,119 and about eight or ten hours later, I used an art glass called 596 00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:34,960 German new Antique pale yellow for the Star of David patches that the Jews had 597 00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:42,519 to wear. And then and then what happened with this piece? After I 598 00:55:42,679 --> 00:55:46,519 built it? I wanted to know how to write, how do you remember 599 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:52,360 what you never forget? That phrase came to me as I'm handling and building 600 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:55,239 this thing. I called my friend who gave me the names. I said, 601 00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:59,360 I want to write this in Yiddish? Can you translate it? She 602 00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:00,760 said, no, no, no, no, no, do it in 603 00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:06,800 Hebrew. I know somebody with a Hebrew typewriter. So she asked the man, 604 00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:12,159 would you translate it? And he said yes. I got the translation 605 00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:19,039 and it took me three days and nights to perfectly do the Hebrew characters exactly. 606 00:56:19,840 --> 00:56:25,280 And then she invited me to the Minneapolis Jewish Vinkel Club, of all 607 00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:31,559 these Jewish old timers, to show the piece. The man who did the 608 00:56:31,599 --> 00:56:37,800 translation came up to me, an elderly gentleman, and he took my hand 609 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:39,960 in both of his, and I said thank you. He said, I 610 00:56:40,079 --> 00:56:51,519 was honored to do this, and I'm a survivor of Auschwitz. Wow, 611 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,719 what did that feel like? What does it feel like? Now? I'm 612 00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:07,760 all choked up? It wasn't It took my breath away. And at first 613 00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:12,599 I worried because I'm an Italian American, I'm not Jewish, and I worried 614 00:57:13,119 --> 00:57:15,119 I don't fit in you know how you worry about these things. And then 615 00:57:15,159 --> 00:57:22,440 I realized when he took my hand, I am the vessel for this translation. 616 00:57:22,800 --> 00:57:25,199 It came through me. Why, I don't know. All I knew 617 00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,920 was that give me those names. I couldn't go another day until she gave 618 00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,199 me the damn names, and I had to say it out loud, like 619 00:57:34,239 --> 00:57:39,440 a like a frickin whispered prayer, each name. I understand it. I 620 00:57:39,519 --> 00:57:44,079 understand it. And I didn't know what I was going. I didn't even 621 00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:45,280 know I was going to make a work of art. I just start doing 622 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:51,119 it. So when you ask are you guided? You know I was listening. 623 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:57,000 My being, My being was listening. And then when I met this 624 00:57:57,159 --> 00:58:05,840 gentleman just touching his hand and that he was honored to do this. But 625 00:58:06,079 --> 00:58:12,760 God, feel for a split second, and I mean like a nanosecond, 626 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:19,440 it felt like a massive rush of connectivity, as if we were all a 627 00:58:19,519 --> 00:58:22,320 thread of light. I can't explain it. It just shot right through me. 628 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,920 And it was so you know how when something happens, and then when 629 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,440 you realize it happens, it goes away. And I'm very I'm an emotional 630 00:58:30,480 --> 00:58:34,960 person. I wear my emotions on my sleeve, my shoes, my shoulders. 631 00:58:35,039 --> 00:58:37,360 I'm crying during commercial, That's just the way I am. And I 632 00:58:37,360 --> 00:58:42,920 could hardly keep it together. And then the rest of the people there were 633 00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:54,480 looking at and touching the letters and it was just profoundly moving. Yeah, 634 00:58:54,639 --> 00:59:05,840 where does that work of art live now. Funny you should say that right 635 00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:12,199 now. It was brought to the attention of a rabbi who is making arrangements 636 00:59:12,239 --> 00:59:15,679 to go someplace that I don't want to say just yet. It won't happen 637 00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:20,239 if I do that, but it's going to be at a place that I 638 00:59:20,360 --> 00:59:23,639 never dreamed in a million years if it goes through. So when I did 639 00:59:23,719 --> 00:59:29,920 this piece Robert, I knew it was not mine to keep. And I 640 00:59:30,039 --> 00:59:32,440 said to the piece, where will you be? Where must you be? 641 00:59:34,440 --> 00:59:38,280 I don't know, I don't know, so tell me where you must be. 642 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:44,639 And I did that piece in two thousand and six, and there were 643 00:59:44,639 --> 00:59:47,000 a couple of times when I tried to connect it to different places. It 644 00:59:47,039 --> 00:59:51,440 always fell through. So I thought, you're being blocked. Stop it. 645 00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:57,199 But out this piece will this piece will know when to go. So I 646 00:59:57,239 --> 01:00:09,800 thought, okay, wow, is I guess that's probably one of the most 647 01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:16,840 profound things. One time I was going by uh uh this uh there's like 648 01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:22,639 this row of antique places and junk places, and there was a tabletop, 649 01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:27,480 a table leaning against the wall, and I thought, holy shit, older 650 01:00:29,519 --> 01:00:31,199 I almost I slammed the brakes of my truck. No think I know, 651 01:00:31,559 --> 01:00:37,639 I thought Martin Luther's tabletop talks. So I went there and this older woman, 652 01:00:37,719 --> 01:00:40,199 she was like eighty. I said, I'd like to buy that table 653 01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:44,119 how much? And she said so I bought it, and I came back 654 01:00:44,119 --> 01:00:45,880 in with a sawsoll. Now, a saso, for those of you who 655 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:51,960 don't know, is a reciprocating saw. It's kind of a macho looking thing. 656 01:00:52,039 --> 01:00:53,880 But I like it because I can fit in my hands. Okay, 657 01:00:54,159 --> 01:00:57,920 it's not like Shaine saw. I won't touch those, Okay, Okay. 658 01:00:58,159 --> 01:01:02,639 I came in with this saws all and that poor woman gasped and I said, 659 01:01:02,679 --> 01:01:07,239 I need to take the legs off. And she thought I was toosy 660 01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:09,360 pots crazy in the head. I mean, she thought, you know. 661 01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,840 So I took the legs off. I put it in the back of my 662 01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,880 truck. I took it to the studio and I started researching Martin Luther's table 663 01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:22,039 Talks, the writings, and then I did a portrait of Martin Luther and 664 01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:27,119 his wife Katie, and on the side of the table I put quotes from 665 01:01:27,199 --> 01:01:30,960 table Talks. And then again I get this hit. This is not for 666 01:01:31,039 --> 01:01:36,159 you to keep, This is not yours to keep. So I think, 667 01:01:36,239 --> 01:01:39,199 okay, here we go again. Okay, fine, And I was invited 668 01:01:39,239 --> 01:01:45,280 to do a show at luther College in Decorah, Iowa, and so well, 669 01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:49,320 the Peace lives there. I asked some I sent them photos. I 670 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,599 said, is this something I would like to give this to the college, 671 01:01:53,039 --> 01:02:00,000 And they emailed me immediately and that's where the Peace lives in their their community 672 01:02:00,079 --> 01:02:06,000 center on campus as a Lutheran college. And uh, I thought, okay, 673 01:02:06,079 --> 01:02:09,159 Marty and Katie, you're in good company. Okay, it's yours. 674 01:02:10,599 --> 01:02:15,960 You're a healer too. I know. I hadn't thought about it like that, 675 01:02:15,360 --> 01:02:21,519 think about it, risialized that. It's a lovely thought to think that 676 01:02:22,320 --> 01:02:30,519 someone who's not a faith would do that. And then that piece that goes 677 01:02:30,599 --> 01:02:40,679 to Israel or anywhere brings out healing energies of healing those that have been deeply 678 01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:51,199 wounded. Or this this can go on forever because it will also be the 679 01:02:51,280 --> 01:02:59,119 descendants of those that were originally ruined, were wounded, that will be carrying 680 01:02:59,199 --> 01:03:06,480 that wound. Yes, and in your way, to some people, you've 681 01:03:06,719 --> 01:03:12,840 helped them heal. That is what that man was experience and going through. 682 01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:20,719 And that's all that's congratulation. Good for you, you know, And that 683 01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:27,920 is the power of art. That is the power and I believe it heart 684 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:31,639 and soul. And I tell students you are one of the most powerful things 685 01:03:31,679 --> 01:03:36,440 in the world to be an artist, a writer, to put things in 686 01:03:36,480 --> 01:03:39,719 the world. Are you kidding me? Fasten your seatbelts man. You've got 687 01:03:39,719 --> 01:03:45,079 a lifetime of making a difference. Yes, how you doing? By the 688 01:03:45,079 --> 01:03:54,719 way, let's how's the interview going? You know you're holding back anything or 689 01:03:54,840 --> 01:04:00,320 is this? Oh god, I have lots of stories that hell, but 690 01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,880 I'm trying. I'm so emotional. I'm trying to be a little more so 691 01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:10,920 little stuff voiced here. Oh it's great. I how do people find you? 692 01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:15,920 I know I found you through uh Michelle, you know, my my 693 01:04:15,920 --> 01:04:23,280 my producer. But but how do how to just normal people find you? 694 01:04:23,719 --> 01:04:32,039 I have a website and where is it. It's It's www dot Pat Beenankaza 695 01:04:33,039 --> 01:04:41,760 hyphen art dot com and it's Ben and Kaza beism book E N I N 696 01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:45,519 C A S A. If you just google my name, Pat, Ben 697 01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:50,760 and Kaza, you will go to my website. Do you sell your art? 698 01:04:51,199 --> 01:04:55,199 Yes? I do. I do. Like say, for example, 699 01:04:55,239 --> 01:04:58,199 I just sort of drove up to your studio and said I would like to 700 01:04:58,239 --> 01:05:01,199 buy some art. Did you make something for me? Or or is there 701 01:05:01,199 --> 01:05:04,360 stuff on the wall that I could buy? Or oh my god, you 702 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:09,559 go to my website. All the pieces that are not in private collections are 703 01:05:09,599 --> 01:05:13,480 for sale. Okay, so just contact me and I can just give you 704 01:05:13,559 --> 01:05:16,880 a price list. That's you know how I would do it. Hot. 705 01:05:17,639 --> 01:05:29,960 This has been a really beautiful, wonderful, invigorating, stimulating, exciting conversation. 706 01:05:30,639 --> 01:05:35,519 And thank you so much for being on here with me today. It 707 01:05:35,639 --> 01:05:40,519 just means so much. Well, I'm honored to be here and I love 708 01:05:40,639 --> 01:05:45,679 talking to you. Robert. Yes, thank you. Wow, it wasn't 709 01:05:45,679 --> 01:05:51,119 that a great show. It was just fascinating talking with Pat tonight. The 710 01:05:51,719 --> 01:06:00,320 the synchronicity in our way of thinking, the way she does her art, 711 01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:04,719 the way I do my psychic work, the way she developed the way I 712 01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:11,960 developed it was it was just uncanny. So thank you for being such a 713 01:06:12,000 --> 01:06:17,079 wonderful guest. Uh And just before we say goodbye from this fabulous show Tonight 714 01:06:17,239 --> 01:06:21,639 number twenty six, I have a couple of requests. If you're watching us 715 01:06:21,679 --> 01:06:29,239 on YouTube, please like, comment and subscribe to our channel. And if 716 01:06:29,280 --> 01:06:35,880 you and also you can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, and 717 01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:44,199 iHeart if and pretty much anywhere else you can find your podcast. If you 718 01:06:44,239 --> 01:06:50,440 want to find me personally, you can find me on my website www dot 719 01:06:50,719 --> 01:06:59,239 Robert Lindseymilne dot com. And now, just before I say goodbye, I 720 01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:04,440 have these things. Do good, stay safe, and above all, just 721 01:07:04,559 --> 01:07:25,039 be kind. Good Night, everybody,