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From the Mac of All Trade Studio in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler
Dots Jeep Wram It's Billified the Bill Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.
Thanks for getting your pot on thanks for telling a friend. That's how
we spread the word about the pirate ship man. This guy Charlie Fitzimmons.
I met Charlie Annimo. Okay, so that was that was you. You
know what's so weird is so I forget who I was telling the story to.
It was Uncle Roger, who it was the twentieth anniversary yesterday of his
murder, which I have an unpopular opinion on sometimes. Oh, how so
you're for it? No, but I I'll say I'll say this because we're
twenty years past. I think at this point, I'm okay. So years
ago, I would like I would drive Rodge to meetings when Stanley was the
program director and we were all there and we would need at Stan's house on
Harvard Street. Roger asked me to pick him up and we'd go over and
do this. And there was a time in the studio that he had left
his sweatshirt like on the chair and he was out doing production and I moved
it and his gun fell out and it was just in like a zip up
sweatshirt, not in a holst or anything, just in the side pocket of
this thing just fell out. I fuck it, almost shit, I'm picking
the thing up like like, oh my god. So I said to him,
Hey, I'm really sorry your gun fell out. I didn't know what
to do, so I just I'm basing it on this. They've never been
able to find anybody. Nobody really knows what happened. He did own property
and he was collecting rent. But is it possible that the gun went off
and hit him in the abdomen? Do you understand what I'm saying, not
on purpose but a pure accident. Could something have happened? Could he have
been startled where he had the gun, he reached for it to do something.
And I only say that because and it sounds terrible and you're blaming the
victim kind of thing that people always say with this. But there wasn't any
secure way. It was just only from my own experience. It's just you.
We had to sit in the backpack, do you see what I'm saying.
Yeah, and it was in the side pocket. And if that's where
you kept it, right and he was shot in the abdomen, is it
possible that you reached inside to get it and accidentally it went off and no
one really could tell. I want to shoot that guy. He was the
nicest, sweetest guy, the nicest sweetest guy. He bound me out some
you know, he bailed you really well, just with the morning show because
I had to get up and he turned over the mic to the Wei show.
And I was the producer at that time. I was twenty three,
twenty four, So getting up at that hour was you know, that was
half the challenge. So I'd come in on two wheels sometimes and late,
you know, six oh five, six ten or something. Yeah, and
he'd be giggling and he's just so sweet. I got you, I got
you, go do your thing, and then I come in. He'd here,
he put on Freebird, yeah, you know, a real long song,
and then I come in and wear my notes. That's uh so he
was. Yeah, it was twenty years he died and it was uh so.
He would sing to Patamas, he'd sing more animal and then I asked
you, if you do it? Yeah, that's it was him. It
was his thing. And then you produced that thing, and then I used
to use it all the time. But what I find most fascinating with you
is you have the mightiest touch. It's like every now I know that that
we're looking. I'm looking from the outside and we see all this stuff,
but I knew you through radio. You had produced the brother we show,
Uh super talented, very creative. He went and started doing the production and
they really wanted you to stay. And it was around that time that you
left and you. No one really knew what's Charlie going to do. And
there was talk of he's going to open a restaurant bar and I don't know
what your brother Phil did, but the what I remember was he's from La
or went to la he was a corporate guy. He's coming back. They're
going to do this thing. They're going to open up and it was a
long time. It seemed like a long time. And I only say that
because our mutual friend Tommy Mulay used to look for restaurants that had opened and
closed before you even open yours. And then Tonic opens. And to me,
you built the East End. You were the anchor of what became the
East End entertainment district for and really I think proved that that was a viable
area. I really do. I think that the housing and everything was was
kind of You showed it. Others came down and did it as well.
Well. I thank you. We might from zero to plus one. You
know, there was nothing down there. Yeah, so I guess we were
the first ones. We had success, But that police would get you reminded
me of so many stories. I'll bounce around one thing before I forget the
gun thing. Did I never tell you about when we'z and I went to
Did you hear that story? I heard it. It wasn't that. It's
something, No, it is. It is because when I was producing,
we were with Weez. We got the opportunity. Had a good friend whose
name's going to escape me, but he was the film critic for USA Today.
Yeah it was Rex Read. Uh no, no, no, no,
no, no, no, it was the party. Yeah, yes
he was. No, this was Marshall Fine. Yes, yeah, Marshall
fine. So we got the opportunity to go down and he took I was
sort of his plus one. So we went to New York and got to
go to the Rainbow Room for this you know, kind of smallish party.
There were probably it looked like a decent sized wedding. Okay, but Paul
Newman's there, Robert Redford. It was pulp fiction time, so all those
people were in there. Oh I didn't know that. Yeah, so that
was really fun. That was like that Saturday. Okay, I forget what
table we're at, but it was really really cool. But the night before
we went to this exclusive, invite only cocktail party, like on the Upper
West Side, and at that time, I don't know if it still is,
but you couldn't have firearms in New York City. It was a jallible
offense. Yeah, because I think even if you go back, if you
remember Plexical Burrs, the football player for the Giants, you need an additional
license in New York City to carry a concealed weapon. So you can have
the New York State concealed weapon, and you need an additional license for New
York City. And it's no joke. It is you go to like,
yeah, he was off the teams. Right, We're in this fancy,
you know, small cocktail party. It's like a three bedroom apartment, and
we didn't really know anyone, soort sort of huddled together on this little couch
just checking people out. And at one point he who he's just getting up
to go get a cocktail or food or something. He's like, you know,
bra, sate my seat. So he gets up to Lenor and by
the way, there's most of the people are skewed pretty old there. So
back in that time, i'd say, you know, I'm twenty four,
twenty five, so they're all mid forties to mid sixties. There's not many
young people, right, and probably I'm going to say almost blue butt blood.
It sounds like if I remember like Helen Muir, yes, she was
there. Yeah, so I didn't know a lot of the people, but
it was definitely it was money people, right, you had it like and
some of its old money some of these people right that. Yeah, there's
a difference. We were. We were kind of sticking out well more so
while I had long hair and I'm the you know, the youngest by good
fifteen years, it seemed other than the white staff and I have long hair,
so like, who's this guy you know? And then they find out
nobody. So so Weeze is getting up and he's leaning over and boom boom,
And I go back to that when you picked up Roger's gun. They're
heavy, a little compact I've never I hadn't I have found that often.
So he gets up and boom boom, there's this noise and slide across on
the hardwood floor. Is a gun. I had no idea. He was
carrying a gun and by the way, we's in these blue bloods, has
his sleeves pulled up and he doesn't have you know, maybe two square inches
that it doesn't have ink on it, right, and you know, he
looks he doesn't. At that time, he didn't tattoos weren't all that big
like movie star. It was sort of like, who's this dude? And
the gun slides over and the look on these people's faces, they're mortified.
They not even just they suddenly went from oh my god, I'm scared,
and you know, he looked like he's got a gun. There's somehow's angels
sitting there with a gun like and it changed the whole mood, and it
was just so funny. He was so funny because he was so ridiculously uncomfortable
laughing, he could keep get there. So he picked it up, you
know, and kind of stuffed it in and you could kind of see news
is traveling pretty quickly. But we got out of there. That was the
one thing I want to come And then the the second thing you're talking about
it opening the rest the tonic, Yeah, and you're saying it seemed like
forever and it did. It did take forever, But back in those days,
I thought took like eleven months if I if I'm and I may be
wrong, but that's I don't know why that's stuck. Because I would argue
with Tommy that, like, because there was a place in Penfield that had
opened then closed, he goes, hey, place we can find. We
were laughing our asses off, and then I said to him, Oh,
that's not really fair. And then there was I don't look, you're building
out of space. Yeah, and I don't know what I'm doing, okay,
but you know you're hiring. Yeah, okay, I think that was
it. Yeah, I sure honestly thought because I would tell people like about
six weeks, and you know, some people I know better than others would
be like, you should just call it six weeks because every time I see
you say six weeks. But it took a really long time, and really
because I didn't know what I was doing. And I think that was almost
a blessing to you know, ignorance is bliss. Oh boy, I'll tell
you that I wouldn't live if I had I known. I think if someone
laid out in front of me, this is how long it's gonna take this,
is how much it's gonna cost and all that stuff. I probably wouldn't
have done it, but you know, you just kind of charge ahead and
eventually opened it. Oh but I want to tell you at that time,
I was trying to figure out a way that I could get fired and get
some money while I while I switch over and become full time bar guy.
Yes, and it was so funny because I no idea what I was doing
fighting with them. Yeah, okay, so at the time we had a
program director. Yeah, Harry Jacobs, Harry Jacobs, and Harry was a
guy that was very douchey into Harry. Harry did things. Now that's that's
fair, and I have to be careful. It's a hard time because he
was a nice guy. Yeah, he was a nice guy. He was
just different. He would yeah, but he would do things like we talked
about on the podcast at one point where he would call her nine. Basically,
would he would invite her up, have her weight in the lobby,
and then have everybody tell her what she looked what she looked like because he
wanted a dater. He would start conversations with women and then invite them up.
They'd be in the lobby and he was only on from four to six
pm, but that was like his dating hours, and like he would meet
these women and they would come up and some of them were color. Yeah,
I was like, call her nine. He dated, call her nine.
But I remember like when they come up and see him and be like
that you did. I remember you changed the production hours. You were there
from six to three and man at two. This is hilarious. Yeah.
So what I was trying to do and I'm no good at it because I
know it's just out of my DNA, you know, to try to get
fired. Somehow I got that stupid idea in my head like, well,
if I get fired, I can still make money through unemployment insurance, which
I knew nothing about, and then I could go jump over and start doing
my restaurant or the bar. For all time, because I was worried about
making making money. I had a friend, a smarter friend in college that
was in labor law at the time. So I call him like how do
I do this? And he was you know, he wasn't an attorney for
that long, but he gave me some points. I'm like, here's what
you need to do. You know, no matter what you can't You can't
quit, Okay, you have to get fired, and that's you know that
that's justification for being able to collect unemployment. So I'm like, okay,
how do I do that. He's like, well, just you know,
essentially start being a dick, you know. And then one of the other
things he said was you gotta follow the rules, but claim that they're making
the environment there difficult for you to be able to do your job. Okay,
so toxic work environment, yeah, yeah, like yeah, but this
is like before this is like, well this is the gus was. I
had no idea. There was just one planning, full planning, and you
know, the execution was terrible, but that was kind of building up to
it. I'm like, okay, well listen, I'm not coming in until
this time because blah blah blah. So I'd only come in at a particular
hour, and then I would say that people coming into the studio was making
it difficult for me to be able to do my job. So you can't
come, yes, yes, except for certain hours. Remember the sign it
was like you can't enter. Oh god, I at my core, I'm
actually a pretty nice guy. Well you are, and everybody loved you there,
well, I mean legitimately loved you, like how creative you were.
So they were doing everything they could to save you. And and I remember
the GM being all confused as the understand I had to have. But this
is all I had to have somebody in the organization to be kind of my
foil. I don't know if that's the right word. Yes, you know,
yes, I had to blame someone to make the environment that I was,
you know, in such an environment that I wasn't able to do my
job. So Harry Jacobs perfect was the enemy. Yes, And it was
tough for me to get that mad at someone, you know, I feel
kind of bad. But so I was making Harry Jacobs the person that was
making my job unable to do so. And I remember at one point time
was ticking because we're getting close to opening. We're not so much opening the
place, but I needed to spend more time there because we were there being
the new bar, because we're hanging dry wall. Yes, you know,
so you're doing all the wire? Were you doing all that? Oh my
god? It was you know, and I knew nothing about it, you
know, middle class kid out up bright and my dad was a single he
was an attorney, but self employed attorney. So we would hire people to
hang drywall, and then part of the deal was we'll give you the job
if you let us work with you. So my brother would work with like
the electrician, I'd work with like the dry waller, and then I figure
out how they did it, or assumed I figured it out, and then
we'd let them go and then we do it ourselves. Okay. So I
was getting to a point where, you know, that's like tradesmen in school
one oh one weekend class. So it got to a point where I'm like,
well, I got to get over there and work. So I got
to get fired, you know, I got to figure out how to do
it. So I remember I finally we set up this meeting with who's the
little guy that he was a good dude, And I set up a meeting
with him to saying, you know, drawing the line, I can't work
here anymore. This environment is too bad. So I'm in there with him
and he's like, dude, what's the deal. And I couldn't let on.
You know that I was coached that way that you can't let on.
And obviously I'm like, this guy's just made it. He's created an environment
that's, you know, made it impossible for me to do my job.
And then that's where we went into like Okay, I'll limit your hours.
No one can come see you. You can just work nine to five.
You can do whatever you want. And I'm like, okay, fine,
And then part two was I had to get in there with him and he's
like, what's going on. I'm like, and I just kept reciting this
line. You know, he's made it. You know, he's created an
environment where I can want to do my job. And he's like, what
are you doing? He's like, are you talking to an attorney or something?
You sound like a complete tool. And eventually did I cracked. I
just couldn't. I'm like, I don't know, I'm just you know,
he's he's smarter than me. He's a bright guy. He's like, he's
a very good businessman. He's like, I'm not letting this, you know,
hair Ball tell me what to do. So he he just eventually smoked
me out, you know, yeah, and I and and I ended up
leaving. But it was very funny. Did you so how we have what
I paid for it? By the way, in karma, you know,
employee relations and trying to get you know, I'm like, so you leave
when you left, yeah, you didn't get fired, So I didn't get
fired. I and I and I don't even know if that would have worked.
Yeah, you know, at that point, I didn't know what the
heck I was talking about. So he left and went over and kind of
finished building out the restaurant. And I got into that stuff and figured out
we didn't neither of us knew how to run a restaurant or build a restaurant.
Why why? Why? Why this? Why the move from? I
mean, you're really you know, you know, it's just that kind of
guy that I would How old are you at this point? I was twenty
seven seven when I made that switch. I think we opened when I was
twenty eight. But you know, I never I never really had a concern
of making money or being successful or getting when getting the things I needed,
you know, in life, like and I didn't have a high bar.
It's not like I've needed a big house or you know. I was just
sort of like someone that would, oh, this seems kind of cool.
And I and I liked creative stuff, you know, I like being in
radio, not the sales side, but the creative side. I liked building
things and I and I really didn't. I wasn't a good student. I
wasn't an applied student. You know, I would do homework. I just
take people's knows. You went to McQuaid, I went to mcquad. I
have a son who went to McQuaid. I wouldn't say the McQuaid was maybe
not necessarily academically harder than any school in the area. It just gave you
a lot of work. Like my kid was in an AP English class where
they were reading in discs using a book, but you also had to read
two other books and write three papers on each book a paper. That's a
tremendous amount of work for high school. I think that's increased though from when
I went, Well, this was an AP and Jordan wanted to prove to
the world that he could do whatever, and mentioned coming into the podcast,
my kid's a six year old, six year old, sixth grader. Yeah,
which is I think the smartest time to start. It's a really great
environment for it, and I think it's great for boys to, you know,
the less distraction, a little more focus. I think it breeds more
competition, which I think is good. Yeah, healthy competent, healthy competition.
Yeah, it was. When I went, it wasn't quite so developed
like now it looks like an academy it does. When I went, it
was a Catholic high school. Okay, so the workload, you know,
I had nothing to base it off of, but it was manageable and I
got by with sees, you know, c pluses and stuff like that.
And then I the only college I got into, the only thick envelope was
John Carroll University. No offense John Carroll, sorry, but which I hear
is getting more and more difficult. That's a Jesuit school. And so I
think they had kind of like this agreement with mcquaide. You know, they'll
take us, and that's sort of like that Catholic Christian you know, give
us your week, you're scart whatever. The Jesuit schools and Jesuit institutions are
considered academically superior to grost. I mean, one of the best I think
in chicag is it Loyola Jesuit School, really really highly rated, and like
I was hoping my kid would go on to a Jesuit college. Well,
there's some I applied to them. Some of the nicer ones. And I
was telling someone because I'm at that age now where our kids are starting to
look at schools and apply to schools and you're learning about, you know,
where do people want to go. But when I was applying, remember it
was like thirty bucks an application, which was a fortune, and I had
to pay for them through whatever, and my parents would help me out with
some of the applications. But it got to a point where my dad would
be like, what are you doing. You know, that's a waste of
money. You're never going to get in there. Really, it was like,
can I have thirty bucks that apply to University of Vermont? It will
be like a reach for me back then. So I applied to maybe nine
schools and I get in any or eighth. I got into one. I
went to John Carroll, but and John Carroll even I was just you know,
I could I could manage the system and get by, and I loved
the experience. But I wasn't a student. You know, sometimes I think
I would like to go back, but then I'm like, you know,
a zebra and his colors, and you know I did it for a week,
I go this, Yeah, I wouldn't study. I just didn't have
that, but there is. But there's a there's a difference because I think
like they've done studies with young kids where they have kids do a test and
then they say to them, Wow, you're so smart. You really did
great. And they tell another group of kids to take the same test.
Man, you worked so hard you did your effort was amazing. And then
they give the test again, and the kids that were told about effort scored
higher than the kids that were told how academically superior or smart they were.
Yeah. Really, yeah, this is a psychological study I was just reading
about. So it's always about effort and when you think for yourself. You
know, one of the things I always said about radio was there was nothing
tangible at the end of the day. You didn't have anything tangible. You
sort of did in production when you were doing that, you had something you
could look at. I always liked working with my hands, and I had
done construction stuff in high school and a little bit in college that you know,
at the end of the day, if I hung a door, I
could look back and do that, and there's some personal satisfaction in that.
So as I'm hearing you talk about, you know, building out tonic.
You can look at something and see the progression, and as you get further
and further into it, it evolves. You know, now I'm not gonna
have this here. It's gonna look better over here, and the bar is
going to be I'm just saying that things change along the way. Yeah,
and you're doing it yourself. And I go back to you know, you
talked about being naive, kind of going in blind the greatest thing, and
I've experienced this with the with the podcast has been a year no rules,
there are no rules, so that way you don't know the barrier. The
other thing I would always say to people is and a mutual friend of ours
did this without even knowing it. But I always go, if you have
an idea, don't tell anybody about it because or or just some people that
you who are going to be sort of supportive, because people are gonna come
to you and go, Charlie, you open a bar't happen and bars you
guys get drunk, they lose, they never last. You lose your money,
you're gotting pitsched it and so you get all that doubt in your head.
And I'll always go to people who go al, I go wait,
hang on a second. I'll give you a biblical answer. Jesus used to
say, heal people and go go forth and tell no one. The reason
is because they're gonna go. Yeah, I'll be back in two weeks.
You'll be dead. He'll be in the ground. What are you talking about?
And so I'll just tell you, Uh, I'm I'm starting the podcast
and I'm thinking of doing stuff. And you know, my my exit from
radio was a little traumatic and then a little bumps. And I get a
call from our old friend Bull Yes, and he goes, what are you
gonna do? And I said, I had just ordered all this equipment and
said, I'm gonna do a podcasts. I was doing that. Yeah,
I was doing in the basement and yeah yeah, And I was like,
fuck, had I had that conversation before I ordered the equipment, I wouldn't
have spent the money. But then you're like, it's ball. It's kind
of a I always liked. But I so it was just an interesting thing
and I would think you probably had to run into that. Oh yeah,
my dad pulled me aside and go, what are you doing? Like a
barye. You know, you went to McQuaid. You're going to John Carroll,
and I just wasn't, you know, in our family culture. I
don't know what, so you really so this was just something that you and
your brother thought, Hey, let's try. I was smarter that my brother
was kind of like family ties. Who's the young kid, Michael, Yes,
yes, yes, Keaton or but I was going to say Michael Keith.
That's not the name, but he would you know, he was a
go getter. So he come down, you know, for school. He
had the tie on, you know, and he's already a briefcase, you
know, that kind of. And he was very successful early on in life
and got the jobs and hustled and all that, and I kind of the
goofball in the side, didn't have a path sort of thing, and and
eventually he circled back. He was in advertising. Yeah, he was in
LA working for bb D n O I think his agency, and then he
was running a division of Johnson and Johnson, the Vistaicon, which made disposable
contact lenses. And he was young at that time. When I go back
and do the math, I'm like, damn, that kid was successful.
So I think he had kind of had enough of that and was like I
missed just kind of messing around and doing stuff. So he kind of quit
his job or got fired or both. I think he used my tool.
He went in there and said job, well he was, he said,
mister Jacobs, I think he was about as successful as I was at it.
So he he ended up quitting his job and joined a rock band down
there and growing his out just being you know, kind of goofing off for
a while, and then he eventually was planning on coming back up to Rochester.
And that's when I was in radio. So I was probably twenty six
and he's five years my senior, so he's probably thirty one around that time.
So we started looking for to build like an ad agency, a little
creative okay, that makes sense, and then I would sort of head up,
I guess the radio side, well, just the creative, which is
the creative side. I didn't know about the business side, and he had
the business background as marketing director and go that. So we started looking for
spaces and then we bumped into this restaurant or this space on Alexander on the
second floor that was gup Signs, and prior to that it was Snyder pardon
me, Gup Signs was lower Snyder auto seat cushion, which no one knows
about. And we walked in. We're like, damn, this is a
nice space. Would make a really cool bar. And that was it.
So we abandoned our whole ad agency plan, like, let's just build a
bar. So how do you survive then? Those eleven months? You're not?
Are you well? You know, you mean through the build out and
that, Yeah, I mean in terms of just living like you know,
we lived like you know, yehence did you hustle? I mean, were
you doing other jobs for people? Uh? I don't really. We didn't
really have other jobs. Just you know, we raised a little bit little
money. You did get to buy dry wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
so we weren't broke, but we you know, real shoe string budget,
driving around a little van that would break down, you know, sharing
an apartment that was pretty beat down, and but it was okay at that
time. You know, it's just you, yes, and your goal.
I wouldn't say a dream. It wasn't like a dream of mine, but
that was the project at hand. And yeah, because it make it happen.
It costs money to open these oh yeah yeah, but back then and
it's it's funny because I'm building another Black and Blue, our second Black and
Blue in Boston right now. The grease, the Greece interceptor, which is
you know, you got to pipe all your sewage through this grease inner,
this thing that takes grease. We had to put it out in a parking
lot in this new place in Wellesley, Massachusetts. That portion of the restaurant
build out, digging out the parking lot, throwing this thing in there was
more expensive than the entire Tonic No Ship build out. Really months and months.
Yeah, just that one little aspect of it. But I guess I
bring that up only because you just did it on you know, so Tom
Open. It was a it was a smash. It was it was I
mean, that was the place to be. Yeah, it was. It's
just good timing, you know. What we wanted to do. We wanted
to have a fun to nightclub, but we wanted to keep it upscale.
Yes, because both my brother and I you know mcquake kids, and you
had to do you know, you had all those dances, but anyways,
you had to You're brought up a particular way with manners and certain decorum,
and and we we appreciated that we're still like going off, you know,
but we wanted to do it in in a little bit more of a upscale
is the wrong word, but polite way. Yeah, there was. It
was not safe way. Yeah, you weren't walking into some casual. It
was casual, but it was the place to be seen. So people were.
You were coming out in your hippos clothes, look at your best do
it. Yeah. And one of simple philosophy is just you got to get
good looking women in there, and so you built a pretty place. It
had to be safe for them, and it had to be you know,
sort of glamorous, you know, so they could dress up and come in
and if you if you provided that, everything else would fall into place.
Pretty simple, you know, get the good looking girls in there. I
don't think anything's really changed all that much, but so we would have God,
we had like fifteen bouncers, you know, and we never had fight.
Well we've had vacasion, but for years I don't think we had like
and this is where people it's a hardcore nightclub thumping, you know, bomb
and rarely did we have an altercation. I think one. I think one
that comes to mind. One altercation was actually when Corn the band was in
there and some local he was hitting on some local guy's girlfriend and Corn,
the lead singer, I don't know his name, he had like bodyguards or
something, and the boyfriend of the girl roll was you know, obviously perturbed
stuff. So he kind of confronts it and then the bodyguard gets involved and
then our local boy beat the bag out of this guy quick and we and
that was like one altercation we had, but we you know, we got
rid of him quick. And even the the some guests that may be inclined
at another spot to have a dust up or cause trouble or be, they
would come and they behave different Yeah, it was right. They would subscribe
to what we're doing. We'd saw the most moat and I don't know,
this could be bullshit, but the we were the in Rochester sold the most
Moet and Chandon White Star champagne because it was kind of trending that way,
and we were cases and cases and cases of that stuff. It was hilarious.
That's still well, I don't know still, but that was even like
you must have raised the bar because I always went to Thirsties. Yeah,
makes since I went to Fisher, Yeah, and I always loved thirsties because
the guy that painted my house would be sitting next to the Wilmonts or somebody
who owned a deal like it was like it was just and I always called
it like a tree for because it was mostly guys in there, but when
their wives would come in, it was always white star that they were drinking.
Oh yeah, and they kept it in the back and you would get
a glass, which was rare thirsty at the time to get a glass,
of course. Yeah. Anything, So all this so tonic? Is how
many years? Five? It's funny, It wasn't long. I think we
opened in July of nineteen ninety eight, like July eleventh or something in nineteen
ninety eight. And what was the first night you open up? Nervous?
Oh it was a shit show. Why because we were so busy? Oh
you were. Yeah. It ran out of everything. It ran out of
beer, ran out of ice. Right, Why why why was this?
Why is this so busy? Like how do people know about it? Either?
I don't you know. I think people used to say, like,
wow, that was really smart marketing technique you had of dragging it out,
telling people you're going to open soon and open soon, and you know the
excitement kept building, I guess, but because you know, no social media
at the time. You know what I'm saying that, like, I think
you can do a coming soon and it's word I kind of missed that,
you know. Yeah, it's a good points and it's still the biggest thing,
you know, and paper invites, hey, you gotta get to And
I still I think probably had some residual effect or impact with at radio.
You know, where's Charlie. Yeah, he's opened a restaurant and he said,
so I think that that may have Oh sure, yeah, still but
yeah, we opened up and it was just an absolute mob scene, obscene,
and so you would close and figure out and we were only open Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, so you'd figure out the next day or
the days off what you need to do to react, you know, ice
or more bouncers or all that kind of stuff. But yeah, it was
we were lucky. We had we we had success. People were digging what
we were selling. So it's July nineteen, July eleventh, nineteen ninety eight,
it opens, Yeah, when do you when does it close? Because
I remember then I thought you did your brother own a place called Pearl?
Yeah, so we opened that together together. We opened that in two thousand
and two. So we started and you're still you still have Tonic, still
have Tonic yeap, and we decided to do that across the street we had
so we were doing food at Tonic and actually our opening chef was Tony Galaci
oh really from Max, phenomenal chef Max of Eastman and maxis chop House,
and so he helped put our food program because we quickly figured out you couldn't
just be a nightclub and survive. You had to have food and something else.
So we would do food and then transition into this nightclub. The fifteen
bouncers would come and move all the tables and all the chairs and get it
out of the way and to turn into too, you know, thump a
nightclub. So the learning curve on this, yeah, just like it was.
I mean you're talking about I had no idea it was going to be
an ad agency and then we look at the space and go, hey,
we're for a bar and know nothing about food, you know, parked cars
and I worked in a restaurant, you know as a valeid and I bust
and I was never even like a lead server. And then we just kind
of dove into this and and figured it out. And that I tell people
that was my business school, okay, because you learn pretty quick, Yeah,
building a business and reacting and changing and and we just yeah, so
it became this really popular restaurant, too fine dining restaurant. And then so
we're like, well, let's open up a restaurant across the street in the
old Valley Cadillac building that was Pearl. Yeah, and so I have to
think at this time, what, you know, your success has to be
catching the eye of people. And there are people I have, you know,
and you'll know some people that are looking to invest money. Yeah,
they really are. And you know, venture capitalists lose I think eighty percent
of the time because if you're venturing into something, most people the endgame is
to make money. Well, if you're only in it to make money,
it's going to fail. But if you're in it to actually provide entertainment value
to people's lives something, you got a better success rate. You're one of
the ones that you know, how many bars? Yeah, you know,
probably the odds are better than anybody that it was a hit. It wasn't,
I mean, it was a huge success. Yeah. Then you open
the other so are there are people coming to you, guys going hey,
I want to invest in you know, a little bit, a little bit,
a little bit, but not as not as much as you'd think.
And by that time you had enough momentum and doing well enough. It was
funny like at one point, this was back in the cash days. Yeah,
my brother and I it's like four in the morning and we had to
buy cash machines, cash counters and the dollar. I know, it's fun.
We're back in this room, we have a couple of cocktails. We're
sitting across each other just bagging up stacks and stacks of twenties, like wow,
And then you had to go drop them in the deposit box because you
didn't want to leave them right in the building, and just kind of like,
this is the greatest thing ever, you know, and and and this
is coming from a kid that was making what eighty or you know, dollar
fifty an hour in radio nothing and not that money was what was driving me.
But it's kind of cool to be like, oh god, I can
buy a car that actually works. So we had some success and then we
built on that and learned a lot through that process. Tony Galacy went and
did his own things. So we brought in Dan Eaton. Remember Dan Eaton,
I'm cooking with Dan Eaton. I'm Dan, and you're cooking with me
on our news. Oh yeah, but really accomplished great and a great dude,
super nice guy, accomplished chef. He came in and took over Tonic.
No, pardon me, Yeah, he came home and took over Tonic.
Then we opened up Pearl. He went over to Pearl and was our
opening chef there and did amazing menu. And then the current chef, Dan
Martello, the current chef owner of good Luck, who's super successful and super
talented, took over a Tonic. So we had all these, you know,
great line of very good chefs, arguably some of the best in the
city, which I think helps you know, if you get the right people,
I know adage, you'll have success. So we we did that and
we opened up Pearl. And then at that time, my brother and I
were having difficulties working together. Why you know, I just think a little
bit of he was my big brother by five years I was I was the
baby of four. He was the oldest. So he's always been the boss,
you know, And and I don't know. You know, I think
we're both competitive guys and a little bit of sibling rivalry and figuring things out.
You know, I think we both looked it was time to part ways.
Yeah, it comes to that thing. Sure, I mean it does,
and we had great success, but it's sort of like, okay,
did it hurt the relationship in any way? You know what I'm saying,
Like, yeah, you know it was. It was new to both of
us, you know, neither of us in retrospect. I don't think I
wanted to not get along, and really, if we were able to get
along better, we probably could have been even more successful. But that's just
you know, sometimes it's the best to preserve the you want to keep the
relationship of family. Well that was it. You know, it's getting to
that point where it's we weren't getting along and you looked at you know,
you tried to look at big picture. Let's just you know, let's move
on. But listen, I see it. I have kids. My kids
fight like, yeah, it's a dogs. You know. My two older
childs are like, yeah, I don't have any daughters, so I don't
know what that well, you know, it's just that's natural. I think
in families. I hear some families like, oh, we're best friends,
we all get along with this bullshit. Just something wrong here, you know,
or at least I it makes me go to bed easier realizing that,
or I tell myself like, that's normal to fight, you know, amongst
each other. And of course we have our backs and stuff. But and
we're young, and we don't. My brother and I I was stubborn,
you know, I'm this kid that thinks he knows it all and don't tell
me he had experience. So you know, we part of ways and I
went out and opened up Jojo. Actually so was Jojo. You So that
was a guy who's still a business partner of mine. Doug Wines, a
friend of mine that was you know, older, older than me at the
time, but super successful both in waste management. Not necessarily the company,
right, but he was in you know, waste collection disposal and then had
some restaurants and stuff like that. So he approached me and said, hey,
interested in doing this, we'd like to you know, partner with you
and turn around. What was chow Yes? I do remember chow Yes back
in the old train depot there in Pittsford. So he approached me and and
at that time my brother and I were, you know, talking about going
our separate ways. He was going to keep Tonic and Pearl and I would
go do this and and so is that what happened? That's what happened.
Yeah. So then you get a not trying to get too much in your
business, but from a business side. Do you get a buy out from
that? Well we worked on you know, a document as a buyout.
Okay, yeah, so you get some money to all right, see the
thing is like it's coming soon. Check some little mail. So you've got
Jojo. But let me just pause here for a moment. Right now,
you have of Jojo, is you right? Yeah? Then you had Black
and Blue Pittsford. You have Yes. Then all of a sudden, Uh,
there's Trotted downtown in the Armory. Then you've got the bakery, the
Village Village Bakery. That's that I knew was in Pittsford. That was a
hit, right, that becomes it. And then there's the Village Bakery expands.
You have it also in the Armory next to Tratta Mall. And then
I knew Webster. Then in addition, you opened up JoJo's webster. Yes,
yeah, And then I thought for a minute, there was a Black
and Blue in Buffalo. Yeah, actually in seven we open up a Black
and Blue and Buffalo, so I've been there for for quite some That's an
empire for a guy who was going to open an ad age. You see
that? Such a fucking empire, Charlie. And that's like, yeah,
well I don't. I don't feel nearly worthy of it being called an Well
I mean when you look at it, I mean, well, you know,
I think who else is? Uh? And now the Boston yea.
Do you see what I'm saying? Like this is you know, I don't
have h I didn't set out to build an empire. I didn't, no,
I know, you know, to to I didn't. I don't have
any goals of like I want to make this much money, I'm going to
have this house, I'm going to do these things. I just want to.
I just I like doing things. I like I like challenging myself.
I like setting goals and pushing and because a lot of people get into something
they have known nothing about, which you've said you didn't know, and then
you get in and you go, fuck, that was good I was successful.
I have we go to something. You keep building more and more restaurants,
which I mean, you know there's all kinds of documentaries and dramas and
reality shows on the drama just in a restaurant. How have you been able
to stay above the fray and keep everything successful and expanding it On the outside
it might look successful. There's been, you know, lots of challenges along
the way, and I've learned a lot along the way, wins and losses.
You know. I always I tell myself, if I can win more
than I lose, you know, maybe seven out of ten or six out
of ten, you know, win six games, lose four games, that's
good for me. I try to keep those losses, you know, not
evident or or I'll cut them early enough so that they don't take me down.
So I've done a lot of things that haven't been successful, but I'll
know when to bail. Well. Failure is part of the Oh god,
you have to still learn. I think everybody goes well, you know,
failure fair, No, you have to it's not. You can't. I
don't believe you can look at it as failure. I really don't. I
think, at least for what is the big thing now mental health. Right,
we all focused on mental health at least the depression I suck. I
did. I think you have to look at it as Okay, that didn't
work, Let's pivot. I learned that that doesn't work. But that doesn't
mean this whole idea needs to be abandoned. We just need to pivot.
And I think that there's a big uh. You know, I think fear.
I think it's fear people. I think you're right, and you know
I I I sometimes wonder, you know, you have every now and then
that self reflection. I don't. I don't reserve much time in my life
for that. Yeah, just because I think I was in a generation and
certainly my parents that have passed. My dad would be ninety mid nineties.
He was born in twenty nine. Your dad, Yeah, I had no
idea your dad was as old as my grandparents. Basically, yeah, whus
you of our but that generation and I saw a lot of it because you
know, my mom was maybe six years as junior or seven years of junior,
but still kind of that same generation and all her siblings and my dad's
siblings, and but they just worked hard. Right, you know, if
if if you bumped into adversity, it's sort of like, well that sucks,
let's keep going. You know, there's not you just there wasn't an
There wasn't an an option, right, And I wouldn't say an option for
fail because we failed a lot. Like you said, yeah, along the
way, you have wins and losses, but you just had to show up.
You had to just keep going, figure out, learn of it,
like you said. Sure, but the you know, just to have one
restaurant and have that be successful, it is an amazing thing for many people.
Yeah, that's that's and what are you twenty years with some of these
places? JoJo's close to that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, So to
have a run like that, you know, that's great. I grew up
in a land of have and have not. It's northern Dutchess County, Rhinebeck,
New York. My mom's yeah, yep, my mom lives in Rhinebeck,
and so they just opened a Merbo. That's where we went for Thanksgiving
this year and all this. So it's right there. And my neighbor ran
one of the ten best restaurants in America. He was a French chef named
Charles Virion. We thought Charles was full of shit, it was, but
Charles did and people would find he wrote a cookbook. He was a private
chef for Orson Wells. He ran that for ten years and was very proud
to have had was considered one of the ten best restaurants in America at the
time. And I'm forgetting the name of it, Lapion. Some I can't
even say he. But that's a run, right, And there's a guy
who was successful private chef, did all this stuff and then ran the restaurant
you got. And I don't feel like it's over stating in Saint Empire,
but you go from one hear the failures you got Jojo, and then there's
Black and Blue. Black and Blue is fantastic and has been another one that's
lasted is that twenty That is eighteen eighteen. Ye're right there, great bar.
I used to like to go and sit and got a big glass of
wine and have dinner when I was married. And you know, I went
in there one year on Valentine's Day with my mom, which was a little
creepy, probably, but I think my wife at the time was out of
town and she was in to watch the kids I took. I've gone there
with on a mandate, I think with like great Connors from Connors and Faris.
We went there. Yeah, I celebrated a birthday or something, So
I mean that's there. Then you've got Trotta, which is really a hip,
trendy, fun place. Yeah. But why well, it's just a
draw. That's I'm wondering, what's the draw I wanted to. I just
wanted to, you know, while I'm on this earth, I think I
just want to do something interesting, interesting, unique, something that challenges me.
Even now they're like how many are you going to build them? And
now we're just focusing on Black and Blues. Okay, so that's the only
one we're growing, and that's the only one we've been growing for some time.
And that's the one that's in other cities. So all these other restaurants
are just local. So black and Blue is where else? Black and Blue
is in Pittsford, It's in Buffalo. It's in Albany. Yeah, in
Albany, right near the university in Colony. It's not far from I'm somewhat
familiar. I was about an hour outside, yeah, yeah, down eighty
one. And then we're in Burlington, Massachusetts, which is kind of a
northwest suburb of Boston sort of their tech sector. They have a big Oracle
presence there, SAP, Microsoft, all those sort of places. And then
we're we're about well, I got we're about six weeks away from our uh
we're uh, we're shooting from March first to open our fifth Black and Blue.
And this is in another suburb of Boston called Wellesley, which is really
do you own all these or are they franchised out or I own I own
the restaurant. I don't own all the real estate. Where we can get
the real estate, we will, but usually we're trying to go in areas
that are really busy, and you know that that's that's old money. Most
of those places have been you know, real estate. It's been held and
held and yeah, and it's it's it's one of these passive incomes. If
you do around for the most part, I mean, there's going to be
upkeep and maintenance and repairs and things. So and then you also own buildings.
Well yeah, and that's so. I do have business partners. And
when I was looking to grow this Black and Blue concept, I approached,
you know a few people that I thought would be very helpful in growing this
black and blue concept because I still was learning and still didn't know a lot
what I was doing. So I grabbed three people that had money and were
successful and they all three of them have different things they bring to the table.
One was the CEO of Bird's Eye Foods period, so he can give
me the necessary structure that I need. And then there was someone that was
involved in Wendy's, so they the multi unit management. They had over one
hundred Wendy's. So I learned from them. The Fox, Yeah, Bob
Fox, great dude. And then and then Dennis Mullen was the former CEO
of Bird's Eye Foods, a local guy. And then the third one,
Doug Wines, was entrepreneur scrappy still is you know. Just so I got
those guys together and they're still with me. Yeah, And you know,
I would carve out a little bit of equity to raise money that way,
and then that was important, but also keeping them on because obviously they're smarter
than me and more experience and they would act sort of as my ad hoc
you know, board of directors. Yeah like that, and they're still so
cool ever since I started back in five. They would never and still don't
tell me what to do. They give me a little bit of advice,
but they never say don't do that, do this. They'd be like,
all right, yeah, go for it, You're gonna do it. Do
it well. I think that there's I mean, you know, they're investing
in you. Yeah, as much as they're investing in the restaurant or whether
they're investing in you, they're investing in your vision. Yeah. And so
you've got a likability about you that I think and proven success. But the
strain, the thing that I'm curious about with you, because you always came
off is laid back. I mean, uh, I'll say this, and
I hope it's not embarrassing, but chicks were like, you know, Charlie,
you know what I mean, Like you were kind of that guy,
but always laid back, super cool. But this inner drive, you know,
and you think of everybody's well, ask things like what are the keys
to success? But what is it that has made you you think? And
I know you say there's not a lot of time for self reflection that that
you would even impart to maybe your kids to say, hey I did something
and I knew nothing about it, but and look, look what I'm leaving
the planet, not that you're leaving the planet, but you understand saying yeah,
no, no, no, I definitely know what you're saying. And
you do definitely self reflect more when you have kids, right, sure you
do. They're a marker in time, marker in time, the like where
you are, don't do this, do this, but don't do this.
So that definitely makes you think a little bit more, like where did I
come from? What did I do? And and you know there's no playbook
for that either, Like, no, there's not, so you're trying to
figure out. Uh, let me ask you just an insert here. As
a as a parent, you found your own way, right, and your
parents were probably hands off enough to let you do your own thing. My
parents were kind of the same thing. I mean, I come from people
that are educated. They have doctors and masters. I went into radio.
You know, my sister's got a doctor in the linguistic she's married to a
lawyer. My brother's got a master's in economics and he's running the cliff house
in Maine. Yeah, and you know, friends with the bushes and all
this, and I'm now doing a podcast. So but they let you kind
of do your own thing. And I've kind of been that way with my
kids too. I kind of go, I want you to skin your knee.
Yeah, so you learn I don't want to get a fall on your
face. Sometimes self doubt like, oh yeah, you know they're not necessarily
me. Yeah, yeah, we're still picking them up from school. I'm
like, don't they have buses? And then I'm you know, self reflecting,
not self reflecting, but am I doing this right? Because we had
to find our way home. I hitchhiked to school every day, you know,
I did. Now. Granted it sounds scarier than it was, but
it was kind of born out of being lazy. I didn't want to get
up early, walk up to Brighton High School connect Bush Wait. So I
would just you know, get up, throw some stuff in a bag,
and run out and put my thumb out and I'd hitchhike to school every day.
But I was eighty percent of the time it's parents driving their kids to
school, right, So, and they're like, oh, this poor kid,
do you have parents driving? Now? Hitchhike home from mcquaide was a
little bit more colorful, you know that that was a separate chapter. I
was like, you know, and if you were late coming out of school
because you had detention, which when I was a freshman, I had a
lot of detem It was justice under God, justice under good. But then
I made the hockey team when I was a sophomore and you couldn't. So
that got me. Which is a good thing for sports, right, keeps
you this money. But hitchhiking home in the afternoon after the parents went by.
Now it's like like, now, if I was a parent, I'd
be like, there's somebody out there cruising front. Yeah, you can sit
in front a lot of stuff. You know, it's some but yeah,
you think, are you are you teaching training your kids the right way?
And you know the things I did. There's some aspects of it that I
definitely would like to share with them. Other aspects I don't know if that's
the right thing to do with them, or like you said, I found
my way. I don't know if these kids are going to find their way
because they kind of you know, they're certainly more spoiled than I will,
you know, and well you always want to I remember my dad saying to
me that my generation would be the first first one to not do better than
their parents or have the potential not to do better, because you know,
my grandparents married very young, did not go to college, and then both
my parents did go to college, right, so they're going to be better.
And then all of us went to college, and you know, and
so you just worry, like and it's too easy. Everything's now easy.
I always made the joke like we're never going to have a great guitarist again,
because they would sit in the room and just figure it out. Now
they're sitting in the room. I'm looking at porn. We're never gonna have
another clapp in Jimmy Page. It's over, you know. I mean that,
that's the thing. And so I don't know. But they're of you,
right right, they're of you. And and I was showing you like
my kid, he was determined to be on a track team and do this.
And I said, before we started, I go, I didn't think
he was that great of an athlete. A lot of frustration. He was
always trying to keep up with guys a little bigger than him. It's about
to set a school record, okay, Division two, All right, yeah,
I would have never I didn't see that, right, So that's where
I kind of go maybe hands off a little bit. Maybe the osmosis.
They sucked it in and when they need it. I rely on that a
lot too. By the way, did I move this camera? Is this
a camera? Yeah? It is, but I used to It's focused mainly
on you, So nowhere about it. This one isn't. No, no,
I can change them over here. Yeah. So, uh, I
don't know where we were well, but just the success, I mean,
I guess, oh yeah, Well, if you can sum it up in
a way right here, You've got all this stuff, you have this vision.
What is it that's driving you? And what would you say to somebody?
Because you've met the challenges. You you talked about it. You try
to minimize the failures and things. But what is that that drive for you?
I don't know, you don't know. I just actually my son asked
me yesterday, He's like, are you gonna you know, after this Wellesley
one? Are you gonna build more? I'm like, are you done?
And I'm like, no, I'm doing more. Keep going because what else
are you gonna do? I don't know, just to keep working. And
you know, I'm still in that phase where I hate to say it,
but you're a little selfish. Yeah, you know, because about your own
success, because it takes a lot of focus and it has for years.
But I'm starting to think a little bit more because you see, you know,
I'm fifty four. You can kind of see the finish line, and
I want to, you know, eventually, I want to be able to
do more, you know, and leave the place a little bit better than
I found it found it. Yeah. Interesting, What do you mean by
that? I don't know, you know, just making a difference charity work
and all. Yeah, yeah, I don't know what that means or funding
something something. Yeah, you know, like just leave the place better than
you found it. And I don't know what that means. And it's nothing
that's noble, but no, but that's a big McQuaid thing as well.
You all had to do service right senior projects and yeah, that's sort of
but again by osmosis, I think that's a great thing. I think I
am very impressed by all the things you did and how you figured it out
on your own. That that's the part that I go, I've fine and
motivating for me. Yeah, because I'm you know, I'm a year in.
Somebody goes you got your own business, I go, no, I
don't I have a hustle right now. It's a hustle. And I understand
this. No, I don't. The bank owns it actually run I even
got that. I'm just I'm piecing this together on string. But but that's
okay, and it's been fun. And at this point I'm alone. Right,
some of my guys are older. My other youngest guy is primarily with
his mom. All right, I got a little less. Yeah, there's
responsibility. Less responsibility. You know, you're not running to practices and picking
people up and you know, getting rides. And if he didn't need to
do this, yes, would you still do it? Would you still do
something? So I always wanted to own. You know, I'm just gonna
hang out. I left CMF because I had put into place with an agent
that I would own what was then the breakroom. It would be me and
Tommy. We would get paid one lump sum and we would hire whoever we
wanted. And Mike Doyle got elevated from Rochester to run the entire East Coast,
and he pulled me in his office and goes, that will never happen
under my watch, and I go what he goes, We don't do that
in this company and I go, well, yeah, you do, BJ.
I had the same agent. BJ hooked me up with the agent who,
by the way, his last show is Friday. BJ. Yeah really
I think, Yeah, I think he did get redewed. I don't know
what the story is, but I retire. I don't know. I don't
I don't think it's a it's there's a story. I'm trying to I don't
know. But the point is so I laughed because I always wanted to own
and I wanted to do more than just radio in terms of talk. I
wanted to turn it into can we do interviews and focus things and go into
production and own and build something. And again, you get to a point
in your vision where it's a little blurry, right, you get to a
certain points of Liverpool. I can see this clearly, I can see this,
but I want to do this. I'm not sure exactly what that is
yet, and I don't know. I look at what you're doing, and
then I went, yeah, yeah, I see it. It was an
ad agency. Hey, this would be a great bar. And it was
a great bar, and that launched something that I don't think you ever saw
coming. Yeah. It's funny how life sort of pans out right, But
I think as long as you show up, how important is attitude for you?
Well, attitude and work ethic and all that is, it's paramount.
You know, it's way beyond grades. Because if you just if you have
a good work ethic and you wake up each morning and even the tough mornings
and you're like you gotta go, you know, you just got to work.
And if you keep working and you say today I want to work a
little bit better, and then you build on that and you have some success,
and what is a day like for you? Then get up like ten
thirty or no, you don't get I mean, you know you were you
said nine o'clock and I'm like, okay, and then I I but I
figured, I don't know what time we're shutting it down. But you have
a family. And yeah, I'm not in the restaurants much anymore, Okay,
I'm more well right now, I run the build out projects for the
new restaurants, so I'm the general contractor if you will, and involved in
design and that kind of thing. So I get. I spent a lot
of time on that, and then I helped you know, source key personnel
and site selections and where we're going next. And then obviously all the finance
and stuff. So in the restaurant not all that much, which but still
JoJo's all these are yeah Trotta, Yeah, Toronta, and this is amazing.
Just well, you know what it's It's funny sometimes I've found I found
that if you don't, if you just keep working, you train people,
you hire good people, it just sort of works out. It happens.
Yeah, Like don't obsessed, don't don't stress out about you know, not
being able to touch every little thing, and if you don't, it's gonna
fail. It just sort of it just sort of happens. It's funny you
say that, because sometimes I'll pull out a like Boston, be driving back
and I'll be like, I can't believe this motherfucker works, you know,
like you know, like I'm not that smart, and I know I've had
some secret recipe or sauce, and all of a sudden, I'll be like,
I I can't believe this shit even works. This is hilarious, you
know, like not hilarious, but sort of like, oh my god.
Yeah, and even I've been doing this a long time, I'll still,
you know, four days I'm confident and and I know where we're going,
and I have a clear directive. I'm excited. There's three days where you're
like still, I'm like, what the fuck am I doing? You know,
I'll pull out of this new place in Boston be like I'll ask myself,
like, why why are you doing this? Dude? This is and
and you know that self doubt and stuff, but you just keep pushing.
You trust your instincts, you trust your experience. You you know you you
have a you work hard, you trust people, and you don't bite off
too much, you know, make sure you know you can And and I
realized now as I I get older, you know where I used to be
like, yeah, let's do it. What about today? Yeah, let's
sign me up. Sounds great, pick them up, you know, like,
and now I'm like, no, I'm more of an what's the exit
plan? Where before it was it was I didn't have an exit plan?
Really, you know, because you're like, you're so young, I knew
anything I want. Now you're like, oh my god, I'll ask you,
well, we can even end it on this one, because I'm sure
you've got a million things to do. But the what you ever stop and
think of the lives you've provided for people by opening these restaurants, by having
a standard, right, I always say, even to my sciens, I
go, you can look at someone and see what their standards are, right,
I can see who these what, what? What this person's into,
what they eat, what they're putting in that body, how they spend their
time. I mean, it's pretty quick. We can do that with anybody.
You walk into any one of your restaurants and you can tell it's a
higher standard. It's a higher standard of just appearance. And as you said
with Tonic, everybody kind of raised themselves. The word's not trouble because you
went in there and this is the environment until we all meet the standard.
So the standard is pretty high. But because of that that you have provided
families people have probably met at your restaurants. Yeah, and that's what I'm
saying, banged and maybe started families. But you know, built lives,
bough houses, cars, put kids through school, all on an idea that
was in your head that came to fruition And did that you ever stop and
think about that. That's a big fucking deal, man. Well it's it's
cool. I'm happy to be part of it. Yeah, but I also,
you know, I wouldn't big enough to do that. But I mean,
I'm just saying, you know, you need them. Yes, well
it's a two way street. But I mean, I'm sure there's people that
are managing restaurants that are being paid well and in charge of these things,
and and all of that came from an idea of I'm not gonna do an
ad age to see this should make a great bar. I mean, to
me, that's that's you know, it's phenomenal. But do you still I
still am you know, people ask, you know, what are you doing
or or are you going to add more restaurants? And there's still part of
my brainer and like I'm I don't know what I'm going to like when I
grow up, I'm going to do this, you know, like I still
feel young, and I still want to do other stuff, Like I you
know, I'm happy I have success here. What would be in other stuff?
That's a good question. Yeah, But if I didn't have kids,
you know, I think I would think a little bit more creatively on what
would be something pretty cool to do, you know, But when you have
a family, obviously there's responsibilities and that sort of thing, and really,
I think. I think to be creative and you know, try anything and
follow your passions and all that kind of stuff. That's important. But also
if you find an area that you have some success in, you should focus
on it, you know, and not necessarily bounce all over the place and
not and not really commit or do something as well as you can. You
know, if you're gonna do it. My dad always said, do it
to the best of your ability. To see a lot of this success the
early parts of Tonic, and then my fatherhood like a bad stroke when we
opened Pearl, so then he was I don't think cognizant of really what was
going on. My mom actually just passed last year. She was and she
loved it because she was sort of an entertainer. I think that's what was
in our blood, you know. She loved entertaining people winning. I got
into radio because I love making. It sounded fun, right, And then
I actually gotten radio because I wanted to be I wanted to work for a
record company because I thought that was fun. You know, let's do something
cool and fun. I love rock and roll music, and then gotting radio.
I'm like, this is fun, this is kind of cool. And
then you know, anything, I could dude and not put on a tie
and go sit in a cubicle and cole call people. I was gonna work
hard at finding a way to make that a living. And that's with the
restaurants and the bars, and that sounds like fun. This place would be
cool, you know. Like, I don't say every I wouldn't say everyone
should do that, but I do like entertaining. I do like making people
happy. I have, like I think some of my success in restaurants is
I have an insatiable desire kind of to be liked, you know, and
make people happy, like, look, he can juggle, you know,
like, and so if a customer wasn't happy and they're like, oh,
you know you you don't have pepsi, interesting, we're out, I would
run to a store and bring it back and pour them at pepsi for instance.
And it wasn't because I was going to make money off of them or
an ego. It's just like I wanted to make people happy. So I
think that's help with my success. Yeah, I want to do fun stuff.
Well, Charlie, this has been fantastic. Thank you for coming in,
and it's fascinating to me and uh, running out of guests, so
this this will run over. Well, we'll see animal. I'm still I'm
still, I'm still building, i still fright on. Thank you perpetuity.
I appreciate that. For Charlie Fitzimmons, I'm Bill Mouran. We'll see you
tomorrow. Hey, thanks for checking out Billified. And did you gift yourself?
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