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Cobblestone on Maine at one on nine
West Main Street in the village of Webster,

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Nicely decorated. It's the perfect escape
from the holiday madness. You know,

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you're running around, You're trying to
get your kids to their different concerts.

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Maybe you got end of your banquet
kind of things. You're rushing all

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over the place. Take a break. Go to Cobblestone on Main Seriously,

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it'll recharge your batteries. They have
an upscale bar and they have a fantastic

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winter cocktail menu. The food is
fantastic there, locally sourced and you could

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slide into their intimate dining room,
have dinner and then retire out to the

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bar. And a lot of times
they have live music. Well, how

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will you know? You Go to
their Facebook page Cobblestone on Maine right there

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on Facebook. Little escape from the
holiday madness at one on nine West Main

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Street in the village of Webster,
and online at Cobblestone on Maine dot com.

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From the Mac of All Trade Studio
in Fairport and driven by Victor Chrysler

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Dots Jeep Wram It's Billified the Bill
Moran Podcast. Well, hello and welcome.

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Thanks for getting your pot on thanks
for telling a friend. That's how

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we spread the word about the pirate
ship man. This guy Charlie Fitzimmons.

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I met Charlie Annimo. Okay,
so that was that was you. You

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know what's so weird is so I
forget who I was telling the story to.

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It was Uncle Roger, who it
was the twentieth anniversary yesterday of his

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murder, which I have an unpopular
opinion on sometimes. Oh, how so

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you're for it? No, but
I I'll say I'll say this because we're

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twenty years past. I think at
this point, I'm okay. So years

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ago, I would like I would
drive Rodge to meetings when Stanley was the

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program director and we were all there
and we would need at Stan's house on

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Harvard Street. Roger asked me to
pick him up and we'd go over and

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do this. And there was a
time in the studio that he had left

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his sweatshirt like on the chair and
he was out doing production and I moved

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it and his gun fell out and
it was just in like a zip up

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sweatshirt, not in a holst or
anything, just in the side pocket of

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this thing just fell out. I
fuck it, almost shit, I'm picking

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the thing up like like, oh
my god. So I said to him,

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Hey, I'm really sorry your gun
fell out. I didn't know what

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to do, so I just I'm
basing it on this. They've never been

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able to find anybody. Nobody really
knows what happened. He did own property

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and he was collecting rent. But
is it possible that the gun went off

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and hit him in the abdomen?
Do you understand what I'm saying, not

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on purpose but a pure accident.
Could something have happened? Could he have

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been startled where he had the gun, he reached for it to do something.

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And I only say that because and
it sounds terrible and you're blaming the

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victim kind of thing that people always
say with this. But there wasn't any

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secure way. It was just only
from my own experience. It's just you.

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We had to sit in the backpack, do you see what I'm saying.

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Yeah, and it was in the
side pocket. And if that's where

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you kept it, right and he
was shot in the abdomen, is it

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possible that you reached inside to get
it and accidentally it went off and no

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one really could tell. I want
to shoot that guy. He was the

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nicest, sweetest guy, the nicest
sweetest guy. He bound me out some

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you know, he bailed you really
well, just with the morning show because

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I had to get up and he
turned over the mic to the Wei show.

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And I was the producer at that
time. I was twenty three,

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twenty four, So getting up at
that hour was you know, that was

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half the challenge. So I'd come
in on two wheels sometimes and late,

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you know, six oh five,
six ten or something. Yeah, and

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he'd be giggling and he's just so
sweet. I got you, I got

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you, go do your thing,
and then I come in. He'd here,

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he put on Freebird, yeah,
you know, a real long song,

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and then I come in and wear
my notes. That's uh so he

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was. Yeah, it was twenty
years he died and it was uh so.

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He would sing to Patamas, he'd
sing more animal and then I asked

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you, if you do it?
Yeah, that's it was him. It

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was his thing. And then you
produced that thing, and then I used

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to use it all the time.
But what I find most fascinating with you

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is you have the mightiest touch.
It's like every now I know that that

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we're looking. I'm looking from the
outside and we see all this stuff,

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but I knew you through radio.
You had produced the brother we show,

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Uh super talented, very creative.
He went and started doing the production and

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they really wanted you to stay.
And it was around that time that you

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left and you. No one really
knew what's Charlie going to do. And

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there was talk of he's going to
open a restaurant bar and I don't know

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what your brother Phil did, but
the what I remember was he's from La

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or went to la he was a
corporate guy. He's coming back. They're

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going to do this thing. They're
going to open up and it was a

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long time. It seemed like a
long time. And I only say that

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because our mutual friend Tommy Mulay used
to look for restaurants that had opened and

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closed before you even open yours.
And then Tonic opens. And to me,

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you built the East End. You
were the anchor of what became the

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East End entertainment district for and really
I think proved that that was a viable

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area. I really do. I
think that the housing and everything was was

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kind of You showed it. Others
came down and did it as well.

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Well. I thank you. We
might from zero to plus one. You

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know, there was nothing down there. Yeah, so I guess we were

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the first ones. We had success, But that police would get you reminded

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me of so many stories. I'll
bounce around one thing before I forget the

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gun thing. Did I never tell
you about when we'z and I went to

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Did you hear that story? I
heard it. It wasn't that. It's

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something, No, it is.
It is because when I was producing,

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we were with Weez. We got
the opportunity. Had a good friend whose

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name's going to escape me, but
he was the film critic for USA Today.

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Yeah it was Rex Read. Uh
no, no, no, no,

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no, no, no, it
was the party. Yeah, yes

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he was. No, this was
Marshall Fine. Yes, yeah, Marshall

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fine. So we got the opportunity
to go down and he took I was

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sort of his plus one. So
we went to New York and got to

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go to the Rainbow Room for this
you know, kind of smallish party.

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There were probably it looked like a
decent sized wedding. Okay, but Paul

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Newman's there, Robert Redford. It
was pulp fiction time, so all those

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people were in there. Oh I
didn't know that. Yeah, so that

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was really fun. That was like
that Saturday. Okay, I forget what

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table we're at, but it was
really really cool. But the night before

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we went to this exclusive, invite
only cocktail party, like on the Upper

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West Side, and at that time, I don't know if it still is,

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but you couldn't have firearms in New
York City. It was a jallible

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offense. Yeah, because I think
even if you go back, if you

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remember Plexical Burrs, the football player
for the Giants, you need an additional

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license in New York City to carry
a concealed weapon. So you can have

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the New York State concealed weapon,
and you need an additional license for New

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York City. And it's no joke. It is you go to like,

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yeah, he was off the teams. Right, We're in this fancy,

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you know, small cocktail party.
It's like a three bedroom apartment, and

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we didn't really know anyone, soort
sort of huddled together on this little couch

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just checking people out. And at
one point he who he's just getting up

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to go get a cocktail or food
or something. He's like, you know,

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bra, sate my seat. So
he gets up to Lenor and by

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the way, there's most of the
people are skewed pretty old there. So

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back in that time, i'd say, you know, I'm twenty four,

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twenty five, so they're all mid
forties to mid sixties. There's not many

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young people, right, and probably
I'm going to say almost blue butt blood.

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It sounds like if I remember like
Helen Muir, yes, she was

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there. Yeah, so I didn't
know a lot of the people, but

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it was definitely it was money people, right, you had it like and

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some of its old money some of
these people right that. Yeah, there's

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a difference. We were. We
were kind of sticking out well more so

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while I had long hair and I'm
the you know, the youngest by good

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fifteen years, it seemed other than
the white staff and I have long hair,

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so like, who's this guy you
know? And then they find out

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nobody. So so Weeze is getting
up and he's leaning over and boom boom,

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And I go back to that when
you picked up Roger's gun. They're

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heavy, a little compact I've never
I hadn't I have found that often.

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So he gets up and boom boom, there's this noise and slide across on

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the hardwood floor. Is a gun. I had no idea. He was

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carrying a gun and by the way, we's in these blue bloods, has

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his sleeves pulled up and he doesn't
have you know, maybe two square inches

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that it doesn't have ink on it, right, and you know, he

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looks he doesn't. At that time, he didn't tattoos weren't all that big

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like movie star. It was sort
of like, who's this dude? And

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the gun slides over and the look
on these people's faces, they're mortified.

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They not even just they suddenly went
from oh my god, I'm scared,

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and you know, he looked like
he's got a gun. There's somehow's angels

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sitting there with a gun like and
it changed the whole mood, and it

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was just so funny. He was
so funny because he was so ridiculously uncomfortable

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laughing, he could keep get there. So he picked it up, you

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know, and kind of stuffed it
in and you could kind of see news

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is traveling pretty quickly. But we
got out of there. That was the

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one thing I want to come And
then the the second thing you're talking about

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it opening the rest the tonic,
Yeah, and you're saying it seemed like

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forever and it did. It did
take forever, But back in those days,

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I thought took like eleven months if
I if I'm and I may be

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wrong, but that's I don't know
why that's stuck. Because I would argue

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with Tommy that, like, because
there was a place in Penfield that had

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opened then closed, he goes,
hey, place we can find. We

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were laughing our asses off, and
then I said to him, Oh,

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that's not really fair. And then
there was I don't look, you're building

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out of space. Yeah, and
I don't know what I'm doing, okay,

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but you know you're hiring. Yeah, okay, I think that was

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it. Yeah, I sure honestly
thought because I would tell people like about

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six weeks, and you know,
some people I know better than others would

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be like, you should just call
it six weeks because every time I see

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you say six weeks. But it
took a really long time, and really

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because I didn't know what I was
doing. And I think that was almost

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a blessing to you know, ignorance
is bliss. Oh boy, I'll tell

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you that I wouldn't live if I
had I known. I think if someone

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laid out in front of me,
this is how long it's gonna take this,

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is how much it's gonna cost and
all that stuff. I probably wouldn't

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have done it, but you know, you just kind of charge ahead and

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eventually opened it. Oh but I
want to tell you at that time,

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I was trying to figure out a
way that I could get fired and get

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some money while I while I switch
over and become full time bar guy.

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Yes, and it was so funny
because I no idea what I was doing

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fighting with them. Yeah, okay, so at the time we had a

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program director. Yeah, Harry Jacobs, Harry Jacobs, and Harry was a

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guy that was very douchey into Harry. Harry did things. Now that's that's

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fair, and I have to be
careful. It's a hard time because he

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was a nice guy. Yeah,
he was a nice guy. He was

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just different. He would yeah,
but he would do things like we talked

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about on the podcast at one point
where he would call her nine. Basically,

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would he would invite her up,
have her weight in the lobby,

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and then have everybody tell her what
she looked what she looked like because he

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wanted a dater. He would start
conversations with women and then invite them up.

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They'd be in the lobby and he
was only on from four to six

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pm, but that was like his
dating hours, and like he would meet

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these women and they would come up
and some of them were color. Yeah,

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I was like, call her nine. He dated, call her nine.

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But I remember like when they come
up and see him and be like

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that you did. I remember you
changed the production hours. You were there

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from six to three and man at
two. This is hilarious. Yeah.

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So what I was trying to do
and I'm no good at it because I

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know it's just out of my DNA, you know, to try to get

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fired. Somehow I got that stupid
idea in my head like, well,

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if I get fired, I can
still make money through unemployment insurance, which

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I knew nothing about, and then
I could go jump over and start doing

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my restaurant or the bar. For
all time, because I was worried about

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making making money. I had a
friend, a smarter friend in college that

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was in labor law at the time. So I call him like how do

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I do this? And he was
you know, he wasn't an attorney for

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that long, but he gave me
some points. I'm like, here's what

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you need to do. You know, no matter what you can't You can't

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quit, Okay, you have to
get fired, and that's you know that

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that's justification for being able to collect
unemployment. So I'm like, okay,

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how do I do that. He's
like, well, just you know,

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essentially start being a dick, you
know. And then one of the other

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things he said was you gotta follow
the rules, but claim that they're making

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the environment there difficult for you to
be able to do your job. Okay,

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so toxic work environment, yeah,
yeah, like yeah, but this

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is like before this is like,
well this is the gus was. I

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had no idea. There was just
one planning, full planning, and you

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know, the execution was terrible,
but that was kind of building up to

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it. I'm like, okay,
well listen, I'm not coming in until

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this time because blah blah blah.
So I'd only come in at a particular

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hour, and then I would say
that people coming into the studio was making

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it difficult for me to be able
to do my job. So you can't

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come, yes, yes, except
for certain hours. Remember the sign it

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was like you can't enter. Oh
god, I at my core, I'm

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actually a pretty nice guy. Well
you are, and everybody loved you there,

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well, I mean legitimately loved you, like how creative you were.

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So they were doing everything they could
to save you. And and I remember

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the GM being all confused as the
understand I had to have. But this

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is all I had to have somebody
in the organization to be kind of my

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00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,039
foil. I don't know if that's
the right word. Yes, you know,

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yes, I had to blame someone
to make the environment that I was,

220
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you know, in such an environment
that I wasn't able to do my

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job. So Harry Jacobs perfect was
the enemy. Yes, And it was

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tough for me to get that mad
at someone, you know, I feel

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kind of bad. But so I
was making Harry Jacobs the person that was

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making my job unable to do so. And I remember at one point time

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was ticking because we're getting close to
opening. We're not so much opening the

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place, but I needed to spend
more time there because we were there being

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the new bar, because we're hanging
dry wall. Yes, you know,

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so you're doing all the wire?
Were you doing all that? Oh my

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god? It was you know,
and I knew nothing about it, you

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know, middle class kid out up
bright and my dad was a single he

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was an attorney, but self employed
attorney. So we would hire people to

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hang drywall, and then part of
the deal was we'll give you the job

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if you let us work with you. So my brother would work with like

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the electrician, I'd work with like
the dry waller, and then I figure

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out how they did it, or
assumed I figured it out, and then

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we'd let them go and then we
do it ourselves. Okay. So I

237
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was getting to a point where,
you know, that's like tradesmen in school

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one oh one weekend class. So
it got to a point where I'm like,

239
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well, I got to get over
there and work. So I got

240
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to get fired, you know,
I got to figure out how to do

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it. So I remember I finally
we set up this meeting with who's the

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00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:51,480
little guy that he was a good
dude, And I set up a meeting

243
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with him to saying, you know, drawing the line, I can't work

244
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here anymore. This environment is too
bad. So I'm in there with him

245
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and he's like, dude, what's
the deal. And I couldn't let on.

246
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You know that I was coached that
way that you can't let on.

247
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And obviously I'm like, this guy's
just made it. He's created an environment

248
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that's, you know, made it
impossible for me to do my job.

249
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And then that's where we went into
like Okay, I'll limit your hours.

250
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No one can come see you.
You can just work nine to five.

251
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You can do whatever you want.
And I'm like, okay, fine,

252
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And then part two was I had
to get in there with him and he's

253
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like, what's going on. I'm
like, and I just kept reciting this

254
00:18:33,519 --> 00:18:37,839
line. You know, he's made
it. You know, he's created an

255
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environment where I can want to do
my job. And he's like, what

256
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are you doing? He's like,
are you talking to an attorney or something?

257
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You sound like a complete tool.
And eventually did I cracked. I

258
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,599
just couldn't. I'm like, I
don't know, I'm just you know,

259
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:56,000
he's he's smarter than me. He's
a bright guy. He's like, he's

260
00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:00,319
a very good businessman. He's like, I'm not letting this, you know,

261
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hair Ball tell me what to do. So he he just eventually smoked

262
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:07,039
me out, you know, yeah, and I and and I ended up

263
00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:10,279
leaving. But it was very funny. Did you so how we have what

264
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,720
I paid for it? By the
way, in karma, you know,

265
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,559
employee relations and trying to get you
know, I'm like, so you leave

266
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,319
when you left, yeah, you
didn't get fired, So I didn't get

267
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fired. I and I and I
don't even know if that would have worked.

268
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Yeah, you know, at that
point, I didn't know what the

269
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heck I was talking about. So
he left and went over and kind of

270
00:19:32,559 --> 00:19:37,000
finished building out the restaurant. And
I got into that stuff and figured out

271
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we didn't neither of us knew how
to run a restaurant or build a restaurant.

272
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Why why? Why? Why this? Why the move from? I

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00:19:44,599 --> 00:19:47,559
mean, you're really you know,
you know, it's just that kind of

274
00:19:47,559 --> 00:19:52,119
guy that I would How old are
you at this point? I was twenty

275
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,759
seven seven when I made that switch. I think we opened when I was

276
00:19:56,799 --> 00:20:03,920
twenty eight. But you know,
I never I never really had a concern

277
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:15,160
of making money or being successful or
getting when getting the things I needed,

278
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you know, in life, like
and I didn't have a high bar.

279
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,559
It's not like I've needed a big
house or you know. I was just

280
00:20:21,599 --> 00:20:23,640
sort of like someone that would,
oh, this seems kind of cool.

281
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And I and I liked creative stuff, you know, I like being in

282
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radio, not the sales side,
but the creative side. I liked building

283
00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:37,200
things and I and I really didn't. I wasn't a good student. I

284
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:41,200
wasn't an applied student. You know, I would do homework. I just

285
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take people's knows. You went to
McQuaid, I went to mcquad. I

286
00:20:45,079 --> 00:20:48,960
have a son who went to McQuaid. I wouldn't say the McQuaid was maybe

287
00:20:48,519 --> 00:20:53,440
not necessarily academically harder than any school
in the area. It just gave you

288
00:20:53,599 --> 00:20:57,240
a lot of work. Like my
kid was in an AP English class where

289
00:20:57,279 --> 00:21:02,240
they were reading in discs using a
book, but you also had to read

290
00:21:02,279 --> 00:21:06,400
two other books and write three papers
on each book a paper. That's a

291
00:21:06,519 --> 00:21:11,759
tremendous amount of work for high school. I think that's increased though from when

292
00:21:11,799 --> 00:21:15,079
I went, Well, this was
an AP and Jordan wanted to prove to

293
00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,119
the world that he could do whatever, and mentioned coming into the podcast,

294
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:22,480
my kid's a six year old,
six year old, sixth grader. Yeah,

295
00:21:22,519 --> 00:21:26,599
which is I think the smartest time
to start. It's a really great

296
00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,079
environment for it, and I think
it's great for boys to, you know,

297
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,839
the less distraction, a little more
focus. I think it breeds more

298
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:38,319
competition, which I think is good. Yeah, healthy competent, healthy competition.

299
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:44,519
Yeah, it was. When I
went, it wasn't quite so developed

300
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,480
like now it looks like an academy
it does. When I went, it

301
00:21:48,519 --> 00:21:55,240
was a Catholic high school. Okay, so the workload, you know,

302
00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:59,319
I had nothing to base it off
of, but it was manageable and I

303
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,480
got by with sees, you know, c pluses and stuff like that.

304
00:22:03,160 --> 00:22:08,279
And then I the only college I
got into, the only thick envelope was

305
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,640
John Carroll University. No offense John
Carroll, sorry, but which I hear

306
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:18,440
is getting more and more difficult.
That's a Jesuit school. And so I

307
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,240
think they had kind of like this
agreement with mcquaide. You know, they'll

308
00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:26,759
take us, and that's sort of
like that Catholic Christian you know, give

309
00:22:26,839 --> 00:22:32,920
us your week, you're scart whatever. The Jesuit schools and Jesuit institutions are

310
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,559
considered academically superior to grost. I
mean, one of the best I think

311
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:45,480
in chicag is it Loyola Jesuit School, really really highly rated, and like

312
00:22:45,559 --> 00:22:48,279
I was hoping my kid would go
on to a Jesuit college. Well,

313
00:22:48,319 --> 00:22:53,079
there's some I applied to them.
Some of the nicer ones. And I

314
00:22:53,400 --> 00:23:00,400
was telling someone because I'm at that
age now where our kids are starting to

315
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,400
look at schools and apply to schools
and you're learning about, you know,

316
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:07,440
where do people want to go.
But when I was applying, remember it

317
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:11,400
was like thirty bucks an application,
which was a fortune, and I had

318
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:17,519
to pay for them through whatever,
and my parents would help me out with

319
00:23:18,279 --> 00:23:21,000
some of the applications. But it
got to a point where my dad would

320
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,559
be like, what are you doing. You know, that's a waste of

321
00:23:23,559 --> 00:23:27,039
money. You're never going to get
in there. Really, it was like,

322
00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:32,440
can I have thirty bucks that apply
to University of Vermont? It will

323
00:23:32,519 --> 00:23:36,720
be like a reach for me back
then. So I applied to maybe nine

324
00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:41,160
schools and I get in any or
eighth. I got into one. I

325
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,839
went to John Carroll, but and
John Carroll even I was just you know,

326
00:23:45,279 --> 00:23:49,880
I could I could manage the system
and get by, and I loved

327
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,880
the experience. But I wasn't a
student. You know, sometimes I think

328
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,559
I would like to go back,
but then I'm like, you know,

329
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,759
a zebra and his colors, and
you know I did it for a week,

330
00:24:00,799 --> 00:24:06,200
I go this, Yeah, I
wouldn't study. I just didn't have

331
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,440
that, but there is. But
there's a there's a difference because I think

332
00:24:10,519 --> 00:24:17,160
like they've done studies with young kids
where they have kids do a test and

333
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,920
then they say to them, Wow, you're so smart. You really did

334
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:25,079
great. And they tell another group
of kids to take the same test.

335
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,720
Man, you worked so hard you
did your effort was amazing. And then

336
00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:33,279
they give the test again, and
the kids that were told about effort scored

337
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,839
higher than the kids that were told
how academically superior or smart they were.

338
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,480
Yeah. Really, yeah, this
is a psychological study I was just reading

339
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:45,400
about. So it's always about effort
and when you think for yourself. You

340
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,680
know, one of the things I
always said about radio was there was nothing

341
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,480
tangible at the end of the day. You didn't have anything tangible. You

342
00:24:51,519 --> 00:24:53,039
sort of did in production when you
were doing that, you had something you

343
00:24:53,039 --> 00:24:56,039
could look at. I always liked
working with my hands, and I had

344
00:24:56,039 --> 00:25:00,200
done construction stuff in high school and
a little bit in college that you know,

345
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,119
at the end of the day,
if I hung a door, I

346
00:25:03,279 --> 00:25:06,720
could look back and do that,
and there's some personal satisfaction in that.

347
00:25:07,039 --> 00:25:10,240
So as I'm hearing you talk about, you know, building out tonic.

348
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,920
You can look at something and see
the progression, and as you get further

349
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,279
and further into it, it evolves. You know, now I'm not gonna

350
00:25:18,319 --> 00:25:21,839
have this here. It's gonna look
better over here, and the bar is

351
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,519
going to be I'm just saying that
things change along the way. Yeah,

352
00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:29,200
and you're doing it yourself. And
I go back to you know, you

353
00:25:29,279 --> 00:25:33,240
talked about being naive, kind of
going in blind the greatest thing, and

354
00:25:33,319 --> 00:25:37,079
I've experienced this with the with the
podcast has been a year no rules,

355
00:25:37,599 --> 00:25:41,200
there are no rules, so that
way you don't know the barrier. The

356
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:45,039
other thing I would always say to
people is and a mutual friend of ours

357
00:25:45,559 --> 00:25:48,200
did this without even knowing it.
But I always go, if you have

358
00:25:48,279 --> 00:25:52,480
an idea, don't tell anybody about
it because or or just some people that

359
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,720
you who are going to be sort
of supportive, because people are gonna come

360
00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:00,799
to you and go, Charlie,
you open a bar't happen and bars you

361
00:26:00,839 --> 00:26:03,400
guys get drunk, they lose,
they never last. You lose your money,

362
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:07,200
you're gotting pitsched it and so you
get all that doubt in your head.

363
00:26:07,519 --> 00:26:10,240
And I'll always go to people who
go al, I go wait,

364
00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:12,480
hang on a second. I'll give
you a biblical answer. Jesus used to

365
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,079
say, heal people and go go
forth and tell no one. The reason

366
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,599
is because they're gonna go. Yeah, I'll be back in two weeks.

367
00:26:18,599 --> 00:26:21,160
You'll be dead. He'll be in
the ground. What are you talking about?

368
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,880
And so I'll just tell you,
Uh, I'm I'm starting the podcast

369
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,920
and I'm thinking of doing stuff.
And you know, my my exit from

370
00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,559
radio was a little traumatic and then
a little bumps. And I get a

371
00:26:33,559 --> 00:26:37,039
call from our old friend Bull Yes, and he goes, what are you

372
00:26:37,039 --> 00:26:41,400
gonna do? And I said,
I had just ordered all this equipment and

373
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:45,440
said, I'm gonna do a podcasts. I was doing that. Yeah,

374
00:26:45,559 --> 00:26:49,640
I was doing in the basement and
yeah yeah, And I was like,

375
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:55,359
fuck, had I had that conversation
before I ordered the equipment, I wouldn't

376
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,680
have spent the money. But then
you're like, it's ball. It's kind

377
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:04,079
of a I always liked. But
I so it was just an interesting thing

378
00:27:04,079 --> 00:27:08,440
and I would think you probably had
to run into that. Oh yeah,

379
00:27:10,079 --> 00:27:12,279
my dad pulled me aside and go, what are you doing? Like a

380
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:17,039
barye. You know, you went
to McQuaid. You're going to John Carroll,

381
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:22,599
and I just wasn't, you know, in our family culture. I

382
00:27:22,599 --> 00:27:26,240
don't know what, so you really
so this was just something that you and

383
00:27:26,279 --> 00:27:29,000
your brother thought, Hey, let's
try. I was smarter that my brother

384
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:36,240
was kind of like family ties.
Who's the young kid, Michael, Yes,

385
00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,200
yes, yes, Keaton or but
I was going to say Michael Keith.

386
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,960
That's not the name, but he
would you know, he was a

387
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,759
go getter. So he come down, you know, for school. He

388
00:27:48,759 --> 00:27:51,160
had the tie on, you know, and he's already a briefcase, you

389
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:55,400
know, that kind of. And
he was very successful early on in life

390
00:27:55,720 --> 00:28:00,440
and got the jobs and hustled and
all that, and I kind of the

391
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,880
goofball in the side, didn't have
a path sort of thing, and and

392
00:28:06,079 --> 00:28:10,440
eventually he circled back. He was
in advertising. Yeah, he was in

393
00:28:10,599 --> 00:28:14,160
LA working for bb D n O
I think his agency, and then he

394
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,119
was running a division of Johnson and
Johnson, the Vistaicon, which made disposable

395
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,160
contact lenses. And he was young
at that time. When I go back

396
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:25,519
and do the math, I'm like, damn, that kid was successful.

397
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:30,799
So I think he had kind of
had enough of that and was like I

398
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:36,039
missed just kind of messing around and
doing stuff. So he kind of quit

399
00:28:36,079 --> 00:28:38,359
his job or got fired or both. I think he used my tool.

400
00:28:38,559 --> 00:28:45,839
He went in there and said job, well he was, he said,

401
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:52,000
mister Jacobs, I think he was
about as successful as I was at it.

402
00:28:52,599 --> 00:28:59,039
So he he ended up quitting his
job and joined a rock band down

403
00:28:59,039 --> 00:29:03,000
there and growing his out just being
you know, kind of goofing off for

404
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:08,440
a while, and then he eventually
was planning on coming back up to Rochester.

405
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,799
And that's when I was in radio. So I was probably twenty six

406
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:17,240
and he's five years my senior,
so he's probably thirty one around that time.

407
00:29:17,279 --> 00:29:22,839
So we started looking for to build
like an ad agency, a little

408
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,680
creative okay, that makes sense,
and then I would sort of head up,

409
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,960
I guess the radio side, well, just the creative, which is

410
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:32,400
the creative side. I didn't know
about the business side, and he had

411
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:37,799
the business background as marketing director and
go that. So we started looking for

412
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:42,559
spaces and then we bumped into this
restaurant or this space on Alexander on the

413
00:29:42,599 --> 00:29:48,559
second floor that was gup Signs,
and prior to that it was Snyder pardon

414
00:29:48,559 --> 00:29:53,039
me, Gup Signs was lower Snyder
auto seat cushion, which no one knows

415
00:29:53,079 --> 00:29:57,960
about. And we walked in.
We're like, damn, this is a

416
00:29:59,079 --> 00:30:02,519
nice space. Would make a really
cool bar. And that was it.

417
00:30:03,359 --> 00:30:07,759
So we abandoned our whole ad agency
plan, like, let's just build a

418
00:30:07,799 --> 00:30:11,359
bar. So how do you survive
then? Those eleven months? You're not?

419
00:30:11,799 --> 00:30:15,680
Are you well? You know,
you mean through the build out and

420
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:18,279
that, Yeah, I mean in
terms of just living like you know,

421
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:22,240
we lived like you know, yehence
did you hustle? I mean, were

422
00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:29,240
you doing other jobs for people?
Uh? I don't really. We didn't

423
00:30:29,279 --> 00:30:32,960
really have other jobs. Just you
know, we raised a little bit little

424
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:34,880
money. You did get to buy
dry wall. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

425
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,839
so we weren't broke, but we
you know, real shoe string budget,

426
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,279
driving around a little van that would
break down, you know, sharing

427
00:30:41,319 --> 00:30:45,440
an apartment that was pretty beat down, and but it was okay at that

428
00:30:45,519 --> 00:30:51,039
time. You know, it's just
you, yes, and your goal.

429
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:52,599
I wouldn't say a dream. It
wasn't like a dream of mine, but

430
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:56,319
that was the project at hand.
And yeah, because it make it happen.

431
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,039
It costs money to open these oh
yeah yeah, but back then and

432
00:31:00,359 --> 00:31:06,440
it's it's funny because I'm building another
Black and Blue, our second Black and

433
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:12,279
Blue in Boston right now. The
grease, the Greece interceptor, which is

434
00:31:12,319 --> 00:31:15,480
you know, you got to pipe
all your sewage through this grease inner,

435
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,039
this thing that takes grease. We
had to put it out in a parking

436
00:31:19,119 --> 00:31:25,920
lot in this new place in Wellesley, Massachusetts. That portion of the restaurant

437
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,680
build out, digging out the parking
lot, throwing this thing in there was

438
00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:36,039
more expensive than the entire Tonic No
Ship build out. Really months and months.

439
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:41,720
Yeah, just that one little aspect
of it. But I guess I

440
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:45,279
bring that up only because you just
did it on you know, so Tom

441
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,079
Open. It was a it was
a smash. It was it was I

442
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:53,119
mean, that was the place to
be. Yeah, it was. It's

443
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:59,119
just good timing, you know.
What we wanted to do. We wanted

444
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:02,119
to have a fun to nightclub,
but we wanted to keep it upscale.

445
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,960
Yes, because both my brother and
I you know mcquake kids, and you

446
00:32:08,079 --> 00:32:14,000
had to do you know, you
had all those dances, but anyways,

447
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:19,359
you had to You're brought up a
particular way with manners and certain decorum,

448
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:23,119
and and we we appreciated that we're
still like going off, you know,

449
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:30,720
but we wanted to do it in
in a little bit more of a upscale

450
00:32:30,759 --> 00:32:36,079
is the wrong word, but polite
way. Yeah, there was. It

451
00:32:36,119 --> 00:32:42,000
was not safe way. Yeah,
you weren't walking into some casual. It

452
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,160
was casual, but it was the
place to be seen. So people were.

453
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:52,000
You were coming out in your hippos
clothes, look at your best do

454
00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:54,720
it. Yeah. And one of
simple philosophy is just you got to get

455
00:32:54,759 --> 00:33:00,480
good looking women in there, and
so you built a pretty place. It

456
00:33:00,559 --> 00:33:02,960
had to be safe for them,
and it had to be you know,

457
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,039
sort of glamorous, you know,
so they could dress up and come in

458
00:33:07,599 --> 00:33:13,640
and if you if you provided that, everything else would fall into place.

459
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:15,920
Pretty simple, you know, get
the good looking girls in there. I

460
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:21,640
don't think anything's really changed all that
much, but so we would have God,

461
00:33:21,759 --> 00:33:24,440
we had like fifteen bouncers, you
know, and we never had fight.

462
00:33:24,559 --> 00:33:28,599
Well we've had vacasion, but for
years I don't think we had like

463
00:33:29,079 --> 00:33:32,319
and this is where people it's a
hardcore nightclub thumping, you know, bomb

464
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:39,200
and rarely did we have an altercation. I think one. I think one

465
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:45,039
that comes to mind. One altercation
was actually when Corn the band was in

466
00:33:45,079 --> 00:33:52,599
there and some local he was hitting
on some local guy's girlfriend and Corn,

467
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,240
the lead singer, I don't know
his name, he had like bodyguards or

468
00:33:55,279 --> 00:34:02,119
something, and the boyfriend of the
girl roll was you know, obviously perturbed

469
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,400
stuff. So he kind of confronts
it and then the bodyguard gets involved and

470
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,360
then our local boy beat the bag
out of this guy quick and we and

471
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:15,440
that was like one altercation we had, but we you know, we got

472
00:34:15,519 --> 00:34:23,280
rid of him quick. And even
the the some guests that may be inclined

473
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:29,159
at another spot to have a dust
up or cause trouble or be, they

474
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:34,320
would come and they behave different Yeah, it was right. They would subscribe

475
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,559
to what we're doing. We'd saw
the most moat and I don't know,

476
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:44,599
this could be bullshit, but the
we were the in Rochester sold the most

477
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:51,320
Moet and Chandon White Star champagne because
it was kind of trending that way,

478
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:58,519
and we were cases and cases and
cases of that stuff. It was hilarious.

479
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,039
That's still well, I don't know
still, but that was even like

480
00:35:04,159 --> 00:35:07,079
you must have raised the bar because
I always went to Thirsties. Yeah,

481
00:35:07,119 --> 00:35:10,719
makes since I went to Fisher,
Yeah, and I always loved thirsties because

482
00:35:12,199 --> 00:35:15,719
the guy that painted my house would
be sitting next to the Wilmonts or somebody

483
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,079
who owned a deal like it was
like it was just and I always called

484
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:22,519
it like a tree for because it
was mostly guys in there, but when

485
00:35:22,559 --> 00:35:28,079
their wives would come in, it
was always white star that they were drinking.

486
00:35:28,079 --> 00:35:30,159
Oh yeah, and they kept it
in the back and you would get

487
00:35:30,159 --> 00:35:32,719
a glass, which was rare thirsty
at the time to get a glass,

488
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:39,199
of course. Yeah. Anything,
So all this so tonic? Is how

489
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,239
many years? Five? It's funny, It wasn't long. I think we

490
00:35:44,679 --> 00:35:47,800
opened in July of nineteen ninety eight, like July eleventh or something in nineteen

491
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:52,880
ninety eight. And what was the
first night you open up? Nervous?

492
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:59,039
Oh it was a shit show.
Why because we were so busy? Oh

493
00:35:59,079 --> 00:36:00,880
you were. Yeah. It ran
out of everything. It ran out of

494
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:04,639
beer, ran out of ice.
Right, Why why why was this?

495
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,159
Why is this so busy? Like
how do people know about it? Either?

496
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:12,519
I don't you know. I think
people used to say, like,

497
00:36:12,599 --> 00:36:15,480
wow, that was really smart marketing
technique you had of dragging it out,

498
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,800
telling people you're going to open soon
and open soon, and you know the

499
00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:25,679
excitement kept building, I guess,
but because you know, no social media

500
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:28,679
at the time. You know what
I'm saying that, like, I think

501
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,679
you can do a coming soon and
it's word I kind of missed that,

502
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:37,440
you know. Yeah, it's a
good points and it's still the biggest thing,

503
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:39,880
you know, and paper invites,
hey, you gotta get to And

504
00:36:40,039 --> 00:36:47,280
I still I think probably had some
residual effect or impact with at radio.

505
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:51,079
You know, where's Charlie. Yeah, he's opened a restaurant and he said,

506
00:36:51,079 --> 00:36:54,199
so I think that that may have
Oh sure, yeah, still but

507
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:59,840
yeah, we opened up and it
was just an absolute mob scene, obscene,

508
00:37:00,519 --> 00:37:06,840
and so you would close and figure
out and we were only open Wednesday,

509
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,400
Thursday, Friday, Saturday, so
you'd figure out the next day or

510
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,960
the days off what you need to
do to react, you know, ice

511
00:37:14,159 --> 00:37:20,119
or more bouncers or all that kind
of stuff. But yeah, it was

512
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:22,239
we were lucky. We had we
we had success. People were digging what

513
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,440
we were selling. So it's July
nineteen, July eleventh, nineteen ninety eight,

514
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:30,480
it opens, Yeah, when do
you when does it close? Because

515
00:37:30,519 --> 00:37:35,199
I remember then I thought you did
your brother own a place called Pearl?

516
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,039
Yeah, so we opened that together
together. We opened that in two thousand

517
00:37:38,039 --> 00:37:42,880
and two. So we started and
you're still you still have Tonic, still

518
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:51,800
have Tonic yeap, and we decided
to do that across the street we had

519
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:57,840
so we were doing food at Tonic
and actually our opening chef was Tony Galaci

520
00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:05,639
oh really from Max, phenomenal chef
Max of Eastman and maxis chop House,

521
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:10,079
and so he helped put our food
program because we quickly figured out you couldn't

522
00:38:10,119 --> 00:38:14,960
just be a nightclub and survive.
You had to have food and something else.

523
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,360
So we would do food and then
transition into this nightclub. The fifteen

524
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,000
bouncers would come and move all the
tables and all the chairs and get it

525
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,559
out of the way and to turn
into too, you know, thump a

526
00:38:29,679 --> 00:38:32,559
nightclub. So the learning curve on
this, yeah, just like it was.

527
00:38:32,639 --> 00:38:36,480
I mean you're talking about I had
no idea it was going to be

528
00:38:36,519 --> 00:38:38,280
an ad agency and then we look
at the space and go, hey,

529
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:44,760
we're for a bar and know nothing
about food, you know, parked cars

530
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:51,159
and I worked in a restaurant,
you know as a valeid and I bust

531
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,239
and I was never even like a
lead server. And then we just kind

532
00:38:55,239 --> 00:39:00,719
of dove into this and and figured
it out. And that I tell people

533
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,320
that was my business school, okay, because you learn pretty quick, Yeah,

534
00:39:05,760 --> 00:39:12,559
building a business and reacting and changing
and and we just yeah, so

535
00:39:12,599 --> 00:39:16,519
it became this really popular restaurant,
too fine dining restaurant. And then so

536
00:39:16,599 --> 00:39:20,239
we're like, well, let's open
up a restaurant across the street in the

537
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:24,199
old Valley Cadillac building that was Pearl. Yeah, and so I have to

538
00:39:24,199 --> 00:39:30,400
think at this time, what,
you know, your success has to be

539
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:34,480
catching the eye of people. And
there are people I have, you know,

540
00:39:34,159 --> 00:39:38,119
and you'll know some people that are
looking to invest money. Yeah,

541
00:39:38,159 --> 00:39:43,760
they really are. And you know, venture capitalists lose I think eighty percent

542
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:47,119
of the time because if you're venturing
into something, most people the endgame is

543
00:39:47,159 --> 00:39:50,559
to make money. Well, if
you're only in it to make money,

544
00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:54,360
it's going to fail. But if
you're in it to actually provide entertainment value

545
00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:59,320
to people's lives something, you got
a better success rate. You're one of

546
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:01,480
the ones that you know, how
many bars? Yeah, you know,

547
00:40:01,559 --> 00:40:06,039
probably the odds are better than anybody
that it was a hit. It wasn't,

548
00:40:06,079 --> 00:40:07,920
I mean, it was a huge
success. Yeah. Then you open

549
00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:12,760
the other so are there are people
coming to you, guys going hey,

550
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,760
I want to invest in you know, a little bit, a little bit,

551
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,920
a little bit, but not as
not as much as you'd think.

552
00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:27,559
And by that time you had enough
momentum and doing well enough. It was

553
00:40:27,559 --> 00:40:30,039
funny like at one point, this
was back in the cash days. Yeah,

554
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:35,039
my brother and I it's like four
in the morning and we had to

555
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:38,760
buy cash machines, cash counters and
the dollar. I know, it's fun.

556
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,280
We're back in this room, we
have a couple of cocktails. We're

557
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:47,960
sitting across each other just bagging up
stacks and stacks of twenties, like wow,

558
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,400
And then you had to go drop
them in the deposit box because you

559
00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,440
didn't want to leave them right in
the building, and just kind of like,

560
00:40:55,559 --> 00:41:00,320
this is the greatest thing ever,
you know, and and and this

561
00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:04,760
is coming from a kid that was
making what eighty or you know, dollar

562
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:10,400
fifty an hour in radio nothing and
not that money was what was driving me.

563
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,480
But it's kind of cool to be
like, oh god, I can

564
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:17,119
buy a car that actually works.
So we had some success and then we

565
00:41:17,159 --> 00:41:22,119
built on that and learned a lot
through that process. Tony Galacy went and

566
00:41:22,159 --> 00:41:29,719
did his own things. So we
brought in Dan Eaton. Remember Dan Eaton,

567
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,480
I'm cooking with Dan Eaton. I'm
Dan, and you're cooking with me

568
00:41:32,559 --> 00:41:37,159
on our news. Oh yeah,
but really accomplished great and a great dude,

569
00:41:37,559 --> 00:41:40,159
super nice guy, accomplished chef.
He came in and took over Tonic.

570
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,159
No, pardon me, Yeah,
he came home and took over Tonic.

571
00:41:44,199 --> 00:41:46,119
Then we opened up Pearl. He
went over to Pearl and was our

572
00:41:46,159 --> 00:41:52,800
opening chef there and did amazing menu. And then the current chef, Dan

573
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:59,519
Martello, the current chef owner of
good Luck, who's super successful and super

574
00:41:59,559 --> 00:42:02,199
talented, took over a Tonic.
So we had all these, you know,

575
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:07,039
great line of very good chefs,
arguably some of the best in the

576
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:10,199
city, which I think helps you
know, if you get the right people,

577
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:15,480
I know adage, you'll have success. So we we did that and

578
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:16,719
we opened up Pearl. And then
at that time, my brother and I

579
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:22,079
were having difficulties working together. Why
you know, I just think a little

580
00:42:22,079 --> 00:42:27,519
bit of he was my big brother
by five years I was I was the

581
00:42:27,559 --> 00:42:31,000
baby of four. He was the
oldest. So he's always been the boss,

582
00:42:31,559 --> 00:42:36,559
you know, And and I don't
know. You know, I think

583
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:45,159
we're both competitive guys and a little
bit of sibling rivalry and figuring things out.

584
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,920
You know, I think we both
looked it was time to part ways.

585
00:42:49,079 --> 00:42:52,760
Yeah, it comes to that thing. Sure, I mean it does,

586
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,800
and we had great success, but
it's sort of like, okay,

587
00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,719
did it hurt the relationship in any
way? You know what I'm saying,

588
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:02,119
Like, yeah, you know it
was. It was new to both of

589
00:43:02,199 --> 00:43:07,199
us, you know, neither of
us in retrospect. I don't think I

590
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:13,440
wanted to not get along, and
really, if we were able to get

591
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:19,599
along better, we probably could have
been even more successful. But that's just

592
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,239
you know, sometimes it's the best
to preserve the you want to keep the

593
00:43:23,320 --> 00:43:28,079
relationship of family. Well that was
it. You know, it's getting to

594
00:43:28,119 --> 00:43:32,079
that point where it's we weren't getting
along and you looked at you know,

595
00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:37,039
you tried to look at big picture. Let's just you know, let's move

596
00:43:37,079 --> 00:43:39,480
on. But listen, I see
it. I have kids. My kids

597
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:43,960
fight like, yeah, it's a
dogs. You know. My two older

598
00:43:44,079 --> 00:43:46,639
childs are like, yeah, I
don't have any daughters, so I don't

599
00:43:46,639 --> 00:43:51,000
know what that well, you know, it's just that's natural. I think

600
00:43:51,039 --> 00:43:53,000
in families. I hear some families
like, oh, we're best friends,

601
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:59,679
we all get along with this bullshit. Just something wrong here, you know,

602
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:04,239
or at least I it makes me
go to bed easier realizing that,

603
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:07,800
or I tell myself like, that's
normal to fight, you know, amongst

604
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:10,880
each other. And of course we
have our backs and stuff. But and

605
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:16,159
we're young, and we don't.
My brother and I I was stubborn,

606
00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:20,119
you know, I'm this kid that
thinks he knows it all and don't tell

607
00:44:20,159 --> 00:44:24,480
me he had experience. So you
know, we part of ways and I

608
00:44:24,519 --> 00:44:29,719
went out and opened up Jojo.
Actually so was Jojo. You So that

609
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:36,239
was a guy who's still a business
partner of mine. Doug Wines, a

610
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,920
friend of mine that was you know, older, older than me at the

611
00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:50,920
time, but super successful both in
waste management. Not necessarily the company,

612
00:44:51,079 --> 00:44:53,960
right, but he was in you
know, waste collection disposal and then had

613
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,280
some restaurants and stuff like that.
So he approached me and said, hey,

614
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,079
interested in doing this, we'd like
to you know, partner with you

615
00:45:01,119 --> 00:45:07,599
and turn around. What was chow
Yes? I do remember chow Yes back

616
00:45:07,639 --> 00:45:10,840
in the old train depot there in
Pittsford. So he approached me and and

617
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,760
at that time my brother and I
were, you know, talking about going

618
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:16,840
our separate ways. He was going
to keep Tonic and Pearl and I would

619
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:21,199
go do this and and so is
that what happened? That's what happened.

620
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,920
Yeah. So then you get a
not trying to get too much in your

621
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,960
business, but from a business side. Do you get a buy out from

622
00:45:28,000 --> 00:45:32,559
that? Well we worked on you
know, a document as a buyout.

623
00:45:32,679 --> 00:45:39,159
Okay, yeah, so you get
some money to all right, see the

624
00:45:39,199 --> 00:45:45,559
thing is like it's coming soon.
Check some little mail. So you've got

625
00:45:45,639 --> 00:45:49,000
Jojo. But let me just pause
here for a moment. Right now,

626
00:45:49,119 --> 00:45:52,639
you have of Jojo, is you
right? Yeah? Then you had Black

627
00:45:52,679 --> 00:45:57,679
and Blue Pittsford. You have Yes. Then all of a sudden, Uh,

628
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:04,199
there's Trotted downtown in the Armory.
Then you've got the bakery, the

629
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:07,159
Village Village Bakery. That's that I
knew was in Pittsford. That was a

630
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:12,360
hit, right, that becomes it. And then there's the Village Bakery expands.

631
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,920
You have it also in the Armory
next to Tratta Mall. And then

632
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:22,519
I knew Webster. Then in addition, you opened up JoJo's webster. Yes,

633
00:46:22,719 --> 00:46:25,800
yeah, And then I thought for
a minute, there was a Black

634
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:30,239
and Blue in Buffalo. Yeah,
actually in seven we open up a Black

635
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:34,000
and Blue and Buffalo, so I've
been there for for quite some That's an

636
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,159
empire for a guy who was going
to open an ad age. You see

637
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:42,039
that? Such a fucking empire,
Charlie. And that's like, yeah,

638
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:47,280
well I don't. I don't feel
nearly worthy of it being called an Well

639
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:50,280
I mean when you look at it, I mean, well, you know,

640
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,000
I think who else is? Uh? And now the Boston yea.

641
00:46:54,119 --> 00:46:58,800
Do you see what I'm saying?
Like this is you know, I don't

642
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:04,320
have h I didn't set out to
build an empire. I didn't, no,

643
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,360
I know, you know, to
to I didn't. I don't have

644
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,480
any goals of like I want to
make this much money, I'm going to

645
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:14,440
have this house, I'm going to
do these things. I just want to.

646
00:47:15,199 --> 00:47:19,719
I just I like doing things.
I like I like challenging myself.

647
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:24,079
I like setting goals and pushing and
because a lot of people get into something

648
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,360
they have known nothing about, which
you've said you didn't know, and then

649
00:47:30,000 --> 00:47:35,519
you get in and you go,
fuck, that was good I was successful.

650
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,320
I have we go to something.
You keep building more and more restaurants,

651
00:47:38,639 --> 00:47:44,679
which I mean, you know there's
all kinds of documentaries and dramas and

652
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:50,039
reality shows on the drama just in
a restaurant. How have you been able

653
00:47:50,079 --> 00:47:57,159
to stay above the fray and keep
everything successful and expanding it On the outside

654
00:47:57,199 --> 00:48:00,639
it might look successful. There's been, you know, lots of challenges along

655
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:07,079
the way, and I've learned a
lot along the way, wins and losses.

656
00:48:07,519 --> 00:48:08,960
You know. I always I tell
myself, if I can win more

657
00:48:08,960 --> 00:48:15,039
than I lose, you know,
maybe seven out of ten or six out

658
00:48:15,039 --> 00:48:17,079
of ten, you know, win
six games, lose four games, that's

659
00:48:17,159 --> 00:48:24,480
good for me. I try to
keep those losses, you know, not

660
00:48:24,599 --> 00:48:34,519
evident or or I'll cut them early
enough so that they don't take me down.

661
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:39,400
So I've done a lot of things
that haven't been successful, but I'll

662
00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,199
know when to bail. Well.
Failure is part of the Oh god,

663
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:50,519
you have to still learn. I
think everybody goes well, you know,

664
00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,559
failure fair, No, you have
to it's not. You can't. I

665
00:48:53,559 --> 00:48:55,880
don't believe you can look at it
as failure. I really don't. I

666
00:48:55,880 --> 00:49:00,800
think, at least for what is
the big thing now mental health. Right,

667
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,239
we all focused on mental health at
least the depression I suck. I

668
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,679
did. I think you have to
look at it as Okay, that didn't

669
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,440
work, Let's pivot. I learned
that that doesn't work. But that doesn't

670
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:15,039
mean this whole idea needs to be
abandoned. We just need to pivot.

671
00:49:15,039 --> 00:49:20,840
And I think that there's a big
uh. You know, I think fear.

672
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:27,000
I think it's fear people. I
think you're right, and you know

673
00:49:27,119 --> 00:49:31,360
I I I sometimes wonder, you
know, you have every now and then

674
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,039
that self reflection. I don't.
I don't reserve much time in my life

675
00:49:36,039 --> 00:49:43,639
for that. Yeah, just because
I think I was in a generation and

676
00:49:43,679 --> 00:49:47,119
certainly my parents that have passed.
My dad would be ninety mid nineties.

677
00:49:47,159 --> 00:49:51,639
He was born in twenty nine.
Your dad, Yeah, I had no

678
00:49:51,679 --> 00:49:55,079
idea your dad was as old as
my grandparents. Basically, yeah, whus

679
00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:04,840
you of our but that generation and
I saw a lot of it because you

680
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:07,960
know, my mom was maybe six
years as junior or seven years of junior,

681
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,440
but still kind of that same generation
and all her siblings and my dad's

682
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:16,360
siblings, and but they just worked
hard. Right, you know, if

683
00:50:16,599 --> 00:50:21,960
if if you bumped into adversity,
it's sort of like, well that sucks,

684
00:50:22,039 --> 00:50:24,559
let's keep going. You know,
there's not you just there wasn't an

685
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:30,679
There wasn't an an option, right, And I wouldn't say an option for

686
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,159
fail because we failed a lot.
Like you said, yeah, along the

687
00:50:34,199 --> 00:50:37,039
way, you have wins and losses, but you just had to show up.

688
00:50:37,119 --> 00:50:40,159
You had to just keep going,
figure out, learn of it,

689
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:44,679
like you said. Sure, but
the you know, just to have one

690
00:50:44,800 --> 00:50:50,400
restaurant and have that be successful,
it is an amazing thing for many people.

691
00:50:50,639 --> 00:50:54,280
Yeah, that's that's and what are
you twenty years with some of these

692
00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,199
places? JoJo's close to that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, So to

693
00:50:58,239 --> 00:51:01,000
have a run like that, you
know, that's great. I grew up

694
00:51:01,159 --> 00:51:06,639
in a land of have and have
not. It's northern Dutchess County, Rhinebeck,

695
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:12,119
New York. My mom's yeah,
yep, my mom lives in Rhinebeck,

696
00:51:12,159 --> 00:51:14,800
and so they just opened a Merbo. That's where we went for Thanksgiving

697
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:19,119
this year and all this. So
it's right there. And my neighbor ran

698
00:51:19,199 --> 00:51:22,199
one of the ten best restaurants in
America. He was a French chef named

699
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:25,480
Charles Virion. We thought Charles was
full of shit, it was, but

700
00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:29,960
Charles did and people would find he
wrote a cookbook. He was a private

701
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:34,079
chef for Orson Wells. He ran
that for ten years and was very proud

702
00:51:34,559 --> 00:51:37,639
to have had was considered one of
the ten best restaurants in America at the

703
00:51:37,679 --> 00:51:43,679
time. And I'm forgetting the name
of it, Lapion. Some I can't

704
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:47,320
even say he. But that's a
run, right, And there's a guy

705
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,679
who was successful private chef, did
all this stuff and then ran the restaurant

706
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,840
you got. And I don't feel
like it's over stating in Saint Empire,

707
00:51:57,920 --> 00:52:01,039
but you go from one hear the
failures you got Jojo, and then there's

708
00:52:01,079 --> 00:52:06,000
Black and Blue. Black and Blue
is fantastic and has been another one that's

709
00:52:06,079 --> 00:52:12,159
lasted is that twenty That is eighteen
eighteen. Ye're right there, great bar.

710
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,719
I used to like to go and
sit and got a big glass of

711
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:16,920
wine and have dinner when I was
married. And you know, I went

712
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:21,000
in there one year on Valentine's Day
with my mom, which was a little

713
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,679
creepy, probably, but I think
my wife at the time was out of

714
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:28,639
town and she was in to watch
the kids I took. I've gone there

715
00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:32,360
with on a mandate, I think
with like great Connors from Connors and Faris.

716
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,039
We went there. Yeah, I
celebrated a birthday or something, So

717
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,320
I mean that's there. Then you've
got Trotta, which is really a hip,

718
00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:47,039
trendy, fun place. Yeah.
But why well, it's just a

719
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:52,840
draw. That's I'm wondering, what's
the draw I wanted to. I just

720
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:58,239
wanted to, you know, while
I'm on this earth, I think I

721
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,400
just want to do something interesting,
interesting, unique, something that challenges me.

722
00:53:05,559 --> 00:53:08,000
Even now they're like how many are
you going to build them? And

723
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:12,599
now we're just focusing on Black and
Blues. Okay, so that's the only

724
00:53:12,639 --> 00:53:16,400
one we're growing, and that's the
only one we've been growing for some time.

725
00:53:16,960 --> 00:53:22,199
And that's the one that's in other
cities. So all these other restaurants

726
00:53:22,199 --> 00:53:24,239
are just local. So black and
Blue is where else? Black and Blue

727
00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:31,920
is in Pittsford, It's in Buffalo. It's in Albany. Yeah, in

728
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:38,400
Albany, right near the university in
Colony. It's not far from I'm somewhat

729
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,760
familiar. I was about an hour
outside, yeah, yeah, down eighty

730
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:49,360
one. And then we're in Burlington, Massachusetts, which is kind of a

731
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:54,639
northwest suburb of Boston sort of their
tech sector. They have a big Oracle

732
00:53:54,679 --> 00:54:00,719
presence there, SAP, Microsoft,
all those sort of places. And then

733
00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:07,639
we're we're about well, I got
we're about six weeks away from our uh

734
00:54:07,840 --> 00:54:14,079
we're uh, we're shooting from March
first to open our fifth Black and Blue.

735
00:54:14,079 --> 00:54:17,000
And this is in another suburb of
Boston called Wellesley, which is really

736
00:54:17,079 --> 00:54:22,880
do you own all these or are
they franchised out or I own I own

737
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:28,880
the restaurant. I don't own all
the real estate. Where we can get

738
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,599
the real estate, we will,
but usually we're trying to go in areas

739
00:54:31,599 --> 00:54:36,599
that are really busy, and you
know that that's that's old money. Most

740
00:54:36,599 --> 00:54:39,719
of those places have been you know, real estate. It's been held and

741
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,000
held and yeah, and it's it's
it's one of these passive incomes. If

742
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:45,239
you do around for the most part, I mean, there's going to be

743
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:52,320
upkeep and maintenance and repairs and things. So and then you also own buildings.

744
00:54:52,679 --> 00:54:57,719
Well yeah, and that's so.
I do have business partners. And

745
00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:04,119
when I was looking to grow this
Black and Blue concept, I approached,

746
00:55:04,639 --> 00:55:10,960
you know a few people that I
thought would be very helpful in growing this

747
00:55:12,039 --> 00:55:15,800
black and blue concept because I still
was learning and still didn't know a lot

748
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:23,000
what I was doing. So I
grabbed three people that had money and were

749
00:55:23,039 --> 00:55:28,800
successful and they all three of them
have different things they bring to the table.

750
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:32,920
One was the CEO of Bird's Eye
Foods period, so he can give

751
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:37,239
me the necessary structure that I need. And then there was someone that was

752
00:55:37,280 --> 00:55:42,840
involved in Wendy's, so they the
multi unit management. They had over one

753
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:47,079
hundred Wendy's. So I learned from
them. The Fox, Yeah, Bob

754
00:55:47,119 --> 00:55:52,480
Fox, great dude. And then
and then Dennis Mullen was the former CEO

755
00:55:52,519 --> 00:55:57,599
of Bird's Eye Foods, a local
guy. And then the third one,

756
00:55:57,639 --> 00:56:06,199
Doug Wines, was entrepreneur scrappy still
is you know. Just so I got

757
00:56:06,239 --> 00:56:09,559
those guys together and they're still with
me. Yeah, And you know,

758
00:56:09,599 --> 00:56:14,639
I would carve out a little bit
of equity to raise money that way,

759
00:56:14,800 --> 00:56:20,960
and then that was important, but
also keeping them on because obviously they're smarter

760
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:23,880
than me and more experience and they
would act sort of as my ad hoc

761
00:56:24,039 --> 00:56:28,840
you know, board of directors.
Yeah like that, and they're still so

762
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:34,239
cool ever since I started back in
five. They would never and still don't

763
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,960
tell me what to do. They
give me a little bit of advice,

764
00:56:37,079 --> 00:56:38,639
but they never say don't do that, do this. They'd be like,

765
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,559
all right, yeah, go for
it, You're gonna do it. Do

766
00:56:42,599 --> 00:56:46,440
it well. I think that there's
I mean, you know, they're investing

767
00:56:46,480 --> 00:56:50,880
in you. Yeah, as much
as they're investing in the restaurant or whether

768
00:56:51,079 --> 00:56:53,239
they're investing in you, they're investing
in your vision. Yeah. And so

769
00:56:53,360 --> 00:57:00,000
you've got a likability about you that
I think and proven success. But the

770
00:57:00,039 --> 00:57:04,960
strain, the thing that I'm curious
about with you, because you always came

771
00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:09,159
off is laid back. I mean, uh, I'll say this, and

772
00:57:09,159 --> 00:57:13,960
I hope it's not embarrassing, but
chicks were like, you know, Charlie,

773
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:15,719
you know what I mean, Like
you were kind of that guy,

774
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,920
but always laid back, super cool. But this inner drive, you know,

775
00:57:22,079 --> 00:57:24,599
and you think of everybody's well,
ask things like what are the keys

776
00:57:24,599 --> 00:57:30,440
to success? But what is it
that has made you you think? And

777
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:35,360
I know you say there's not a
lot of time for self reflection that that

778
00:57:35,440 --> 00:57:38,920
you would even impart to maybe your
kids to say, hey I did something

779
00:57:39,159 --> 00:57:45,320
and I knew nothing about it,
but and look, look what I'm leaving

780
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,800
the planet, not that you're leaving
the planet, but you understand saying yeah,

781
00:57:49,800 --> 00:57:52,119
no, no, no, I
definitely know what you're saying. And

782
00:57:52,159 --> 00:57:57,800
you do definitely self reflect more when
you have kids, right, sure you

783
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,920
do. They're a marker in time, marker in time, the like where

784
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:04,320
you are, don't do this,
do this, but don't do this.

785
00:58:05,159 --> 00:58:08,440
So that definitely makes you think a
little bit more, like where did I

786
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:13,519
come from? What did I do? And and you know there's no playbook

787
00:58:13,559 --> 00:58:15,079
for that either, Like, no, there's not, so you're trying to

788
00:58:15,079 --> 00:58:21,000
figure out. Uh, let me
ask you just an insert here. As

789
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:25,880
a as a parent, you found
your own way, right, and your

790
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:31,400
parents were probably hands off enough to
let you do your own thing. My

791
00:58:31,480 --> 00:58:35,280
parents were kind of the same thing. I mean, I come from people

792
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,639
that are educated. They have doctors
and masters. I went into radio.

793
00:58:38,119 --> 00:58:42,840
You know, my sister's got a
doctor in the linguistic she's married to a

794
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:49,800
lawyer. My brother's got a master's
in economics and he's running the cliff house

795
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:52,559
in Maine. Yeah, and you
know, friends with the bushes and all

796
00:58:52,599 --> 00:58:57,599
this, and I'm now doing a
podcast. So but they let you kind

797
00:58:57,599 --> 00:58:59,840
of do your own thing. And
I've kind of been that way with my

798
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:02,000
kids too. I kind of go, I want you to skin your knee.

799
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,800
Yeah, so you learn I don't
want to get a fall on your

800
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,800
face. Sometimes self doubt like,
oh yeah, you know they're not necessarily

801
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:15,280
me. Yeah, yeah, we're
still picking them up from school. I'm

802
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:19,880
like, don't they have buses?
And then I'm you know, self reflecting,

803
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:24,480
not self reflecting, but am I
doing this right? Because we had

804
00:59:24,519 --> 00:59:28,559
to find our way home. I
hitchhiked to school every day, you know,

805
00:59:29,079 --> 00:59:31,599
I did. Now. Granted it
sounds scarier than it was, but

806
00:59:32,079 --> 00:59:36,239
it was kind of born out of
being lazy. I didn't want to get

807
00:59:36,320 --> 00:59:40,480
up early, walk up to Brighton
High School connect Bush Wait. So I

808
00:59:40,480 --> 00:59:45,840
would just you know, get up, throw some stuff in a bag,

809
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:49,199
and run out and put my thumb
out and I'd hitchhike to school every day.

810
00:59:49,239 --> 00:59:53,519
But I was eighty percent of the
time it's parents driving their kids to

811
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:57,519
school, right, So, and
they're like, oh, this poor kid,

812
00:59:58,199 --> 01:00:04,519
do you have parents driving? Now? Hitchhike home from mcquaide was a

813
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:08,119
little bit more colorful, you know
that that was a separate chapter. I

814
01:00:08,239 --> 01:00:12,159
was like, you know, and
if you were late coming out of school

815
01:00:12,199 --> 01:00:15,360
because you had detention, which when
I was a freshman, I had a

816
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:20,599
lot of detem It was justice under
God, justice under good. But then

817
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:23,559
I made the hockey team when I
was a sophomore and you couldn't. So

818
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:27,239
that got me. Which is a
good thing for sports, right, keeps

819
01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:31,639
you this money. But hitchhiking home
in the afternoon after the parents went by.

820
01:00:32,119 --> 01:00:37,800
Now it's like like, now,
if I was a parent, I'd

821
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,119
be like, there's somebody out there
cruising front. Yeah, you can sit

822
01:00:40,199 --> 01:00:46,519
in front a lot of stuff.
You know, it's some but yeah,

823
01:00:46,039 --> 01:00:54,400
you think, are you are you
teaching training your kids the right way?

824
01:00:54,719 --> 01:01:01,039
And you know the things I did. There's some aspects of it that I

825
01:01:01,199 --> 01:01:06,719
definitely would like to share with them. Other aspects I don't know if that's

826
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:09,400
the right thing to do with them, or like you said, I found

827
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:13,440
my way. I don't know if
these kids are going to find their way

828
01:01:13,519 --> 01:01:17,320
because they kind of you know,
they're certainly more spoiled than I will,

829
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,920
you know, and well you always
want to I remember my dad saying to

830
01:01:22,920 --> 01:01:27,920
me that my generation would be the
first first one to not do better than

831
01:01:27,960 --> 01:01:31,760
their parents or have the potential not
to do better, because you know,

832
01:01:32,039 --> 01:01:39,519
my grandparents married very young, did
not go to college, and then both

833
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:44,159
my parents did go to college,
right, so they're going to be better.

834
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:47,039
And then all of us went to
college, and you know, and

835
01:01:47,159 --> 01:01:52,880
so you just worry, like and
it's too easy. Everything's now easy.

836
01:01:52,920 --> 01:01:54,920
I always made the joke like we're
never going to have a great guitarist again,

837
01:01:55,039 --> 01:01:59,199
because they would sit in the room
and just figure it out. Now

838
01:01:59,199 --> 01:02:02,360
they're sitting in the room. I'm
looking at porn. We're never gonna have

839
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:07,239
another clapp in Jimmy Page. It's
over, you know. I mean that,

840
01:02:07,039 --> 01:02:12,079
that's the thing. And so I
don't know. But they're of you,

841
01:02:13,239 --> 01:02:15,599
right right, they're of you.
And and I was showing you like

842
01:02:15,679 --> 01:02:19,400
my kid, he was determined to
be on a track team and do this.

843
01:02:19,480 --> 01:02:22,920
And I said, before we started, I go, I didn't think

844
01:02:22,960 --> 01:02:24,800
he was that great of an athlete. A lot of frustration. He was

845
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:28,800
always trying to keep up with guys
a little bigger than him. It's about

846
01:02:28,840 --> 01:02:32,559
to set a school record, okay, Division two, All right, yeah,

847
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:37,079
I would have never I didn't see
that, right, So that's where

848
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:39,559
I kind of go maybe hands off
a little bit. Maybe the osmosis.

849
01:02:39,599 --> 01:02:44,920
They sucked it in and when they
need it. I rely on that a

850
01:02:44,920 --> 01:02:45,880
lot too. By the way,
did I move this camera? Is this

851
01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:50,239
a camera? Yeah? It is, but I used to It's focused mainly

852
01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:52,760
on you, So nowhere about it. This one isn't. No, no,

853
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:57,320
I can change them over here.
Yeah. So, uh, I

854
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,840
don't know where we were well,
but just the success, I mean,

855
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:02,119
I guess, oh yeah, Well, if you can sum it up in

856
01:03:02,119 --> 01:03:06,800
a way right here, You've got
all this stuff, you have this vision.

857
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:10,239
What is it that's driving you?
And what would you say to somebody?

858
01:03:10,360 --> 01:03:14,400
Because you've met the challenges. You
you talked about it. You try

859
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:19,239
to minimize the failures and things.
But what is that that drive for you?

860
01:03:20,400 --> 01:03:22,400
I don't know, you don't know. I just actually my son asked

861
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:28,519
me yesterday, He's like, are
you gonna you know, after this Wellesley

862
01:03:28,639 --> 01:03:30,199
one? Are you gonna build more? I'm like, are you done?

863
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:37,280
And I'm like, no, I'm
doing more. Keep going because what else

864
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:42,159
are you gonna do? I don't
know, just to keep working. And

865
01:03:43,639 --> 01:03:49,239
you know, I'm still in that
phase where I hate to say it,

866
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:52,519
but you're a little selfish. Yeah, you know, because about your own

867
01:03:52,559 --> 01:03:58,639
success, because it takes a lot
of focus and it has for years.

868
01:03:59,400 --> 01:04:02,880
But I'm starting to think a little
bit more because you see, you know,

869
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:05,880
I'm fifty four. You can kind
of see the finish line, and

870
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,760
I want to, you know,
eventually, I want to be able to

871
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:15,079
do more, you know, and
leave the place a little bit better than

872
01:04:15,119 --> 01:04:17,760
I found it found it. Yeah. Interesting, What do you mean by

873
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:24,320
that? I don't know, you
know, just making a difference charity work

874
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:26,639
and all. Yeah, yeah,
I don't know what that means or funding

875
01:04:26,639 --> 01:04:30,039
something something. Yeah, you know, like just leave the place better than

876
01:04:30,079 --> 01:04:32,800
you found it. And I don't
know what that means. And it's nothing

877
01:04:32,920 --> 01:04:36,519
that's noble, but no, but
that's a big McQuaid thing as well.

878
01:04:36,679 --> 01:04:42,880
You all had to do service right
senior projects and yeah, that's sort of

879
01:04:45,159 --> 01:04:49,840
but again by osmosis, I think
that's a great thing. I think I

880
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:56,960
am very impressed by all the things
you did and how you figured it out

881
01:04:57,039 --> 01:05:00,320
on your own. That that's the
part that I go, I've fine and

882
01:05:00,559 --> 01:05:03,320
motivating for me. Yeah, because
I'm you know, I'm a year in.

883
01:05:03,760 --> 01:05:05,559
Somebody goes you got your own business, I go, no, I

884
01:05:05,599 --> 01:05:10,000
don't I have a hustle right now. It's a hustle. And I understand

885
01:05:10,119 --> 01:05:14,199
this. No, I don't.
The bank owns it actually run I even

886
01:05:14,199 --> 01:05:17,679
got that. I'm just I'm piecing
this together on string. But but that's

887
01:05:17,719 --> 01:05:21,639
okay, and it's been fun.
And at this point I'm alone. Right,

888
01:05:23,079 --> 01:05:26,159
some of my guys are older.
My other youngest guy is primarily with

889
01:05:26,199 --> 01:05:30,519
his mom. All right, I
got a little less. Yeah, there's

890
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:34,199
responsibility. Less responsibility. You know, you're not running to practices and picking

891
01:05:34,239 --> 01:05:38,079
people up and you know, getting
rides. And if he didn't need to

892
01:05:38,119 --> 01:05:41,559
do this, yes, would you
still do it? Would you still do

893
01:05:41,639 --> 01:05:44,159
something? So I always wanted to
own. You know, I'm just gonna

894
01:05:44,199 --> 01:05:48,760
hang out. I left CMF because
I had put into place with an agent

895
01:05:49,239 --> 01:05:55,519
that I would own what was then
the breakroom. It would be me and

896
01:05:55,599 --> 01:05:59,199
Tommy. We would get paid one
lump sum and we would hire whoever we

897
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:06,039
wanted. And Mike Doyle got elevated
from Rochester to run the entire East Coast,

898
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:09,440
and he pulled me in his office
and goes, that will never happen

899
01:06:09,519 --> 01:06:14,480
under my watch, and I go
what he goes, We don't do that

900
01:06:14,519 --> 01:06:15,719
in this company and I go,
well, yeah, you do, BJ.

901
01:06:16,519 --> 01:06:19,440
I had the same agent. BJ
hooked me up with the agent who,

902
01:06:19,519 --> 01:06:25,360
by the way, his last show
is Friday. BJ. Yeah really

903
01:06:25,559 --> 01:06:27,800
I think, Yeah, I think
he did get redewed. I don't know

904
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:30,199
what the story is, but I
retire. I don't know. I don't

905
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:34,679
I don't think it's a it's there's
a story. I'm trying to I don't

906
01:06:34,719 --> 01:06:40,280
know. But the point is so
I laughed because I always wanted to own

907
01:06:40,639 --> 01:06:45,280
and I wanted to do more than
just radio in terms of talk. I

908
01:06:45,320 --> 01:06:50,079
wanted to turn it into can we
do interviews and focus things and go into

909
01:06:50,159 --> 01:06:55,800
production and own and build something.
And again, you get to a point

910
01:06:55,840 --> 01:06:58,400
in your vision where it's a little
blurry, right, you get to a

911
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:00,000
certain points of Liverpool. I can
see this clearly, I can see this,

912
01:07:00,079 --> 01:07:02,360
but I want to do this.
I'm not sure exactly what that is

913
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:05,480
yet, and I don't know.
I look at what you're doing, and

914
01:07:05,519 --> 01:07:10,519
then I went, yeah, yeah, I see it. It was an

915
01:07:10,559 --> 01:07:13,199
ad agency. Hey, this would
be a great bar. And it was

916
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,920
a great bar, and that launched
something that I don't think you ever saw

917
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:21,679
coming. Yeah. It's funny how
life sort of pans out right, But

918
01:07:21,840 --> 01:07:27,599
I think as long as you show
up, how important is attitude for you?

919
01:07:28,079 --> 01:07:32,239
Well, attitude and work ethic and
all that is, it's paramount.

920
01:07:32,480 --> 01:07:36,639
You know, it's way beyond grades. Because if you just if you have

921
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:44,599
a good work ethic and you wake
up each morning and even the tough mornings

922
01:07:44,639 --> 01:07:47,280
and you're like you gotta go,
you know, you just got to work.

923
01:07:47,440 --> 01:07:50,239
And if you keep working and you
say today I want to work a

924
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:55,159
little bit better, and then you
build on that and you have some success,

925
01:07:55,480 --> 01:08:00,840
and what is a day like for
you? Then get up like ten

926
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:03,000
thirty or no, you don't get
I mean, you know you were you

927
01:08:03,079 --> 01:08:06,360
said nine o'clock and I'm like,
okay, and then I I but I

928
01:08:06,639 --> 01:08:10,599
figured, I don't know what time
we're shutting it down. But you have

929
01:08:10,639 --> 01:08:15,000
a family. And yeah, I'm
not in the restaurants much anymore, Okay,

930
01:08:16,000 --> 01:08:21,000
I'm more well right now, I
run the build out projects for the

931
01:08:21,079 --> 01:08:27,560
new restaurants, so I'm the general
contractor if you will, and involved in

932
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:30,119
design and that kind of thing.
So I get. I spent a lot

933
01:08:30,199 --> 01:08:34,520
of time on that, and then
I helped you know, source key personnel

934
01:08:35,399 --> 01:08:42,239
and site selections and where we're going
next. And then obviously all the finance

935
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:48,119
and stuff. So in the restaurant
not all that much, which but still

936
01:08:48,319 --> 01:08:56,439
JoJo's all these are yeah Trotta,
Yeah, Toronta, and this is amazing.

937
01:08:56,920 --> 01:09:02,239
Just well, you know what it's
It's funny sometimes I've found I found

938
01:09:03,079 --> 01:09:09,039
that if you don't, if you
just keep working, you train people,

939
01:09:09,199 --> 01:09:12,119
you hire good people, it just
sort of works out. It happens.

940
01:09:12,199 --> 01:09:15,880
Yeah, Like don't obsessed, don't
don't stress out about you know, not

941
01:09:16,039 --> 01:09:20,159
being able to touch every little thing, and if you don't, it's gonna

942
01:09:20,159 --> 01:09:24,079
fail. It just sort of it
just sort of happens. It's funny you

943
01:09:24,119 --> 01:09:27,600
say that, because sometimes I'll pull
out a like Boston, be driving back

944
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:30,039
and I'll be like, I can't
believe this motherfucker works, you know,

945
01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:33,880
like you know, like I'm not
that smart, and I know I've had

946
01:09:34,000 --> 01:09:38,279
some secret recipe or sauce, and
all of a sudden, I'll be like,

947
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:42,520
I I can't believe this shit even
works. This is hilarious, you

948
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,800
know, like not hilarious, but
sort of like, oh my god.

949
01:09:45,119 --> 01:09:47,960
Yeah, and even I've been doing
this a long time, I'll still,

950
01:09:49,960 --> 01:09:56,920
you know, four days I'm confident
and and I know where we're going,

951
01:09:57,239 --> 01:10:01,760
and I have a clear directive.
I'm excited. There's three days where you're

952
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:05,199
like still, I'm like, what
the fuck am I doing? You know,

953
01:10:05,399 --> 01:10:09,600
I'll pull out of this new place
in Boston be like I'll ask myself,

954
01:10:09,720 --> 01:10:13,199
like, why why are you doing
this? Dude? This is and

955
01:10:13,600 --> 01:10:17,159
and you know that self doubt and
stuff, but you just keep pushing.

956
01:10:17,720 --> 01:10:24,720
You trust your instincts, you trust
your experience. You you know you you

957
01:10:24,840 --> 01:10:33,840
have a you work hard, you
trust people, and you don't bite off

958
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:39,079
too much, you know, make
sure you know you can And and I

959
01:10:39,199 --> 01:10:43,119
realized now as I I get older, you know where I used to be

960
01:10:43,279 --> 01:10:45,159
like, yeah, let's do it. What about today? Yeah, let's

961
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:46,279
sign me up. Sounds great,
pick them up, you know, like,

962
01:10:47,319 --> 01:10:51,720
and now I'm like, no,
I'm more of an what's the exit

963
01:10:51,800 --> 01:10:58,199
plan? Where before it was it
was I didn't have an exit plan?

964
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:01,199
Really, you know, because you're
like, you're so young, I knew

965
01:11:01,199 --> 01:11:04,840
anything I want. Now you're like, oh my god, I'll ask you,

966
01:11:05,159 --> 01:11:08,399
well, we can even end it
on this one, because I'm sure

967
01:11:08,439 --> 01:11:11,680
you've got a million things to do. But the what you ever stop and

968
01:11:11,800 --> 01:11:19,560
think of the lives you've provided for
people by opening these restaurants, by having

969
01:11:19,600 --> 01:11:24,560
a standard, right, I always
say, even to my sciens, I

970
01:11:24,600 --> 01:11:28,479
go, you can look at someone
and see what their standards are, right,

971
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:30,680
I can see who these what,
what? What this person's into,

972
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:35,359
what they eat, what they're putting
in that body, how they spend their

973
01:11:35,399 --> 01:11:39,039
time. I mean, it's pretty
quick. We can do that with anybody.

974
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:42,079
You walk into any one of your
restaurants and you can tell it's a

975
01:11:42,199 --> 01:11:46,479
higher standard. It's a higher standard
of just appearance. And as you said

976
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:53,000
with Tonic, everybody kind of raised
themselves. The word's not trouble because you

977
01:11:53,119 --> 01:11:56,680
went in there and this is the
environment until we all meet the standard.

978
01:11:57,239 --> 01:12:01,000
So the standard is pretty high.
But because of that that you have provided

979
01:12:02,199 --> 01:12:09,439
families people have probably met at your
restaurants. Yeah, and that's what I'm

980
01:12:09,479 --> 01:12:15,880
saying, banged and maybe started families. But you know, built lives,

981
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:20,199
bough houses, cars, put kids
through school, all on an idea that

982
01:12:20,359 --> 01:12:25,439
was in your head that came to
fruition And did that you ever stop and

983
01:12:25,520 --> 01:12:28,960
think about that. That's a big
fucking deal, man. Well it's it's

984
01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:30,960
cool. I'm happy to be part
of it. Yeah, but I also,

985
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:34,399
you know, I wouldn't big enough
to do that. But I mean,

986
01:12:34,399 --> 01:12:39,159
I'm just saying, you know,
you need them. Yes, well

987
01:12:39,159 --> 01:12:42,880
it's a two way street. But
I mean, I'm sure there's people that

988
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,479
are managing restaurants that are being paid
well and in charge of these things,

989
01:12:46,600 --> 01:12:53,039
and and all of that came from
an idea of I'm not gonna do an

990
01:12:53,039 --> 01:12:56,000
ad age to see this should make
a great bar. I mean, to

991
01:12:56,159 --> 01:13:00,279
me, that's that's you know,
it's phenomenal. But do you still I

992
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,920
still am you know, people ask, you know, what are you doing

993
01:13:04,159 --> 01:13:08,279
or or are you going to add
more restaurants? And there's still part of

994
01:13:08,319 --> 01:13:12,479
my brainer and like I'm I don't
know what I'm going to like when I

995
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,600
grow up, I'm going to do
this, you know, like I still

996
01:13:15,680 --> 01:13:20,359
feel young, and I still want
to do other stuff, Like I you

997
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:24,479
know, I'm happy I have success
here. What would be in other stuff?

998
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,319
That's a good question. Yeah,
But if I didn't have kids,

999
01:13:28,600 --> 01:13:30,720
you know, I think I would
think a little bit more creatively on what

1000
01:13:30,800 --> 01:13:35,640
would be something pretty cool to do, you know, But when you have

1001
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:39,960
a family, obviously there's responsibilities and
that sort of thing, and really,

1002
01:13:41,920 --> 01:13:48,319
I think. I think to be
creative and you know, try anything and

1003
01:13:50,119 --> 01:13:56,000
follow your passions and all that kind
of stuff. That's important. But also

1004
01:13:56,079 --> 01:13:59,640
if you find an area that you
have some success in, you should focus

1005
01:13:59,720 --> 01:14:02,199
on it, you know, and
not necessarily bounce all over the place and

1006
01:14:02,319 --> 01:14:06,680
not and not really commit or do
something as well as you can. You

1007
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:10,279
know, if you're gonna do it. My dad always said, do it

1008
01:14:10,319 --> 01:14:17,840
to the best of your ability.
To see a lot of this success the

1009
01:14:18,119 --> 01:14:23,560
early parts of Tonic, and then
my fatherhood like a bad stroke when we

1010
01:14:23,640 --> 01:14:29,720
opened Pearl, so then he was
I don't think cognizant of really what was

1011
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:32,760
going on. My mom actually just
passed last year. She was and she

1012
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:35,479
loved it because she was sort of
an entertainer. I think that's what was

1013
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:42,039
in our blood, you know.
She loved entertaining people winning. I got

1014
01:14:42,119 --> 01:14:45,119
into radio because I love making.
It sounded fun, right, And then

1015
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:48,520
I actually gotten radio because I wanted
to be I wanted to work for a

1016
01:14:48,560 --> 01:14:53,039
record company because I thought that was
fun. You know, let's do something

1017
01:14:53,119 --> 01:14:55,960
cool and fun. I love rock
and roll music, and then gotting radio.

1018
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:58,399
I'm like, this is fun,
this is kind of cool. And

1019
01:14:58,560 --> 01:15:00,279
then you know, anything, I
could dude and not put on a tie

1020
01:15:00,439 --> 01:15:05,680
and go sit in a cubicle and
cole call people. I was gonna work

1021
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:10,920
hard at finding a way to make
that a living. And that's with the

1022
01:15:11,000 --> 01:15:13,800
restaurants and the bars, and that
sounds like fun. This place would be

1023
01:15:13,840 --> 01:15:17,560
cool, you know. Like,
I don't say every I wouldn't say everyone

1024
01:15:17,600 --> 01:15:24,479
should do that, but I do
like entertaining. I do like making people

1025
01:15:24,600 --> 01:15:28,560
happy. I have, like I
think some of my success in restaurants is

1026
01:15:29,199 --> 01:15:32,239
I have an insatiable desire kind of
to be liked, you know, and

1027
01:15:33,000 --> 01:15:35,760
make people happy, like, look, he can juggle, you know,

1028
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:42,119
like, and so if a customer
wasn't happy and they're like, oh,

1029
01:15:42,279 --> 01:15:45,960
you know you you don't have pepsi, interesting, we're out, I would

1030
01:15:45,079 --> 01:15:50,600
run to a store and bring it
back and pour them at pepsi for instance.

1031
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:54,640
And it wasn't because I was going
to make money off of them or

1032
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:58,199
an ego. It's just like I
wanted to make people happy. So I

1033
01:15:58,279 --> 01:16:02,239
think that's help with my success.
Yeah, I want to do fun stuff.

1034
01:16:02,279 --> 01:16:05,720
Well, Charlie, this has been
fantastic. Thank you for coming in,

1035
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:12,560
and it's fascinating to me and uh, running out of guests, so

1036
01:16:13,119 --> 01:16:16,039
this this will run over. Well, we'll see animal. I'm still I'm

1037
01:16:16,079 --> 01:16:24,039
still, I'm still building, i
still fright on. Thank you perpetuity.

1038
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,960
I appreciate that. For Charlie Fitzimmons, I'm Bill Mouran. We'll see you

1039
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:39,760
tomorrow. Hey, thanks for checking
out Billified. And did you gift yourself?

1040
01:16:39,840 --> 01:16:42,800
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1041
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,520
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1042
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,520
put it towards a beautiful spot treatment
in one of the most luxurious settings

1043
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:56,199
you can be, or maybe a
delicious meal with live music and a great

1044
01:16:56,279 --> 01:17:00,520
wine selection. Gift yourself call right
now five eight five two of six eighty

1045
01:17:00,560 --> 01:17:05,560
eight sixty six and tell us why
you deserve to be gifted. Gift yourself

1046
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:09,600
with Woodcliffe Hotel and Spa and Bilified