Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is
Adam Framwill here with my fantastic co host, and before we get going on
this episode, i'd like to encourage everyone to join us on the locker Room
app for our live recording sessions at four pm Eastern on Sundays. We do
that every week, so it's your chance to come in ask some questions,
just listen to us as we're recording live, whatever the case may be,
but we would love to see you there. This is not a live episode,
however, it is a continuation of a mini series that we began last
week where we're looking at the most underrated player on every single team in the
NBA. We've already covered the Eastern Conference. If you haven't listened to that,
already, go ahead and do so, but after this one, because
we're doing the Western Conference now. Before we go into how exactly we approached
that, how's it going, Dan, I'm doing all right. I'm a
little bit frazzled today, as you know, but I'm anxious to talk about
to the second half of this underrated series that wasn't supposed to come out this
week, but it worked out that something else we were supposed to do didn't
work out, so we're gonna do this. And this wasn't a This is
one of those pods that feels rewarding because it's so difficult. It is.
It is incredibly difficult, but still I'm not going to let that spoil my
mood right now because I'm just on top of the world. After my Jacksonville
Jaguars took Trevor Lawrence number one overall in the NFL Draft. I know that's
not relevant to our NBA conversation, but I feel like I have to celebrate
because as a beleaguer Jags fan, I never get anything to celebrate, and
I have to. Yeah. I didn't really feel like asking you how you
were doing, though, because the Giants. My Giants got snubbed of DeVante
Smith with Philadelphia leap frogging them in the draft, so I was pretty disappointed
about that. But congratulations to you on future head and shoulders endorsee Trevor Alwarreds.
I'm gonna be insufferable about the Jaguars until they inevitably start owing four and
Trevor Lawrence tears this ACL or something. Oh Dash, Jack Joe Burrow,
don't put the ladder out there. I like, congratulations to Joe Burrow and
Jamar Chase uniting. But if I'm Joe Burrows ACL, I'm a little bit
nervous just because that online is a little bit better. But they really could
have used Sewell. I thought I thought that was the pick. I thought
Sewell was the second best prospect in the draft. So I was shocked that
they didn't go that direction. I kind of get it, but I think
it's the wrong decision. But NBA stuff. Do you want to explain again
how we approached this underrated conversation? Yeah, so just we're I think we
both in most cases understand that the fan bases of all these teams probably appreciate
these players enough, and so we're not going by those standards. We are
national NBA podcast, So that's what we're approaching it from. Just guys that
we think deserve more recognition for the job they've done this season, more maybe
more recognition overall. They're either just underrated because of their impact or underappreciated because
the role they assume. They're doing a lot of the dirty work. Maybe
their numbers just don't leap off the page. And that's why they're not getting
a ton of attention, but that's sort of how we approached this. We
also tried to not double dip, where we went through our lists and we
split them up so that we each have different players. That was not the
case. I think there were two, maybe three teams where we just decided
to overlap because we felt so strongly about those options. And it wasn't at
all because we didn't think that the Golden State Warriors had anybody, nobody who
was underappreciated. At the moment, I was gonna say, like, some
of the agreement is because we both were in lockstep on a guy being super
underrated, and then there are a couple of teams where it's like you're really
pulling out your hair or you are. I don't have any left to try
to find anyone at all who we can call underrated, and I tried to.
You did not steer clear from stars, but you didn't go star happy
too. You picked I thought were good ones. Neither of us spoiler alert
picked Stephen Curry, though I actually think he's probably more appreciated on a national
scale than he is with his own organization. I don't know what that means
about him, but that's where I will end with him. I don't know
if that should qualifies. He doesn't get picked, so we could throw his
name out there, but neither of us selected him because I actually think that
people in our shoes who are ten thousand feet above the ground, thirty thousand,
whatever it is, we appreciate Steph for what he's doing and what the
wars should be doing around him. It feels like they've taken him for granted
though. That's where I'm I think, I think I have trouble just like
referring to anyone who is definitively in the MVP race as underrated, like Steph
probably is not going to win MVP. I think we both agree that Nicolai
Yoka should be the obvious front runner there, but he has been mentioned it
has been a significant topic of conversation on the national level about whether he has
worked his way into the MVP hunt, and like that in and of itself,
to me is disqualifying in this conversation again, I still think it's that
the Warrior's not trying to go all in in any sort of way this season
and sort of approaching it where the lays far approach, where Steve. Steve
kerrs like, we're not going to chase wins this year. Before the season
started, you have one of the three to five best players alive. That's
just a very awkward stance to assume, and I think that's probably putting it
kindly. I feel like I've seen larger and larger swaths of the Golden State
Warriors fan base kind turning against Steve Carollil this season, and I get it.
They have more deeper criticisms. And I do think that he can be
like an okay, like a very good defensive coach, but his offensive system
isn't for everyone. Also, it's hard to piece that together when forget about
truncated off seasons or training camps. But you just have a lot of flyers
on your team, some of whom don't profile as long term keepers, and
so can you get those guys to buy into what you're trying to do.
And the other thing is like, why not let Steph go full James Harden
every single night and put the ball in his hands more. I understand the
importance of his offball gravity. At this point, it's not hoping anyone out
is like the worst floor spacing team in the league. When you say that
Steve Kerr's offense isn't for everyone. Are you referring to it's not for all
of the Golden State Warriors fans, or it's not for all of the players
on his team? Correct? Fair? I think it's a fine system when
you have all these stars on your team, but like not everyone's going to
be able to think at that level. I certainly can't think at that level,
and to it takes a special I think part of the reason it works
so well is thinking about how long Draymond Green, Clay Thompson, and Stephan
Curry of you know, spent together now and you integrate Kevin Durant, who's
just a basketball genius, and himself, but you also have those three guys
with such established ten ures. I did not think we were going to get
off to a Steve Kurr tangent on this pod. Let alone, to start
this pod after you just never know where it's gonna go. Do you want
to start? Am I starting us off this time? Correct? You're gonna
start us? Yeah? You trust me to go alphabetically this time, not
even a little bit. You did not post the clip alphabetically shaming me,
even though I cut it for you. It wasn't even like you had to
cut it to make fun of me. I gave you permission to you.
I totally miss that you might have to it to me. I sent it
in our group chat, and I was I said, Adam, do with
this what you will. I just totally ignored you, like I do most
of your texts. Yeah, I see, I was gonna be hurt either
way. I guess it's better. This one wasn't as public anyway. With
Dallas I went with Actually, ironically we talked. I just sort of realized
this is we talked about him on our last pod, Maxi Kleiba. I
still don't think he Briante Ace Maxila, right, And I don't know that.
Like he's fully appreciated for what he's able to do defensively, how he's
able to move. When you look at his matchups this season, the defensive
data, he's a he's essentially a perimeter big, like this is someone who
can chase around, Like, yeah, if you want him to protect him
a little bit, that's fine. But he's been switched on to threes,
he's covered a bunch of fours. He's probably you know he can again he
can defend lower usage people basically all over the court if you want him to,
and that gives you a ton of optionality. I don't think it's gonna
make your defense, but I do think, and the numbers can be off
with this all the time, but it feels like he's a good match for
Christops Porzingis. If we're fast starting the postseason. That's a front court that
I would just be super intrigued to see more minutes from. And I noted
this that on our last pot, but in case people didn't listen to that
one, First of all, what are you doing? But there are only
the only players who are have a block percentage above two point four this year
and are making more than two three point field goals for thirty six minutes.
None of them are bigs. There's Maxi Klee aside from Clebandther's Kleiba, Jeremy
Grant, Michael Junior, and Danny Green. You can you can say,
I guess if you want to consider Jeremy Grant a big, that's fine,
but those are all guys that I just named. Danny Green's a guard,
a wing, and then Michael Porter Junior's you know, a wing, and
then Jeremy Grant has the ball in his hands a time this season, so
I found that to be very interesting company. So that he's in he's in
great shape with that, and I do think that he's still not just fully
appreciate it yet, because I do he is he Dallas his second best big
on the roster. I think that's pretty clear. Would you put anyone else
in front of him? No, I wouldn't, and Cleveland was my backup
choice for this pick, But I ultimately have to go with a guy who
I don't think any of our listeners will be surprised because they at this point
they really should know my affinity for guys who are have significant involvement in the
offense and just don't make mistakes. And on this Dallas Mavericks team, that's
Jalen Brunson. He is so vital to this current team, probably overly so
compared to where he should be, just because they so desperately need that second
ball handler alongside or in relief of Luka don Chich and that's the role he's
asked to fill, and he fills it pretty well. He's never going to
be one of those guards who explodes for the random forty point night, or
is consistently putting up twenty point outputs. He's just a steady producer who makes
the right plays, whether that's getting involved as a score, whether it's setting
up his teammates, whether it's playing with a little bit more intensity on the
defensive end, and the overall numbers end up looking really good as a result.
I mean, you can't complain about the thirty eight point nine percent shooting
from beyond the arc. You can't complain about three point five assists and one
point two turnovers per game. He just he is the prototypical guard who can
initiate, who can play off the ball, and can fill whatever role is
necessary on any given night, depending on the opponent, depending on where his
teammates are struggling. Yeah, Mo Dakiel, former co host of the Hardway
Knox podcast, will very much appreciate that, and he is. I think
if in some he's been their second best player this season, it's Christops Porzingis
is clearly their second most important. But this year it does start, it's
probably been Jalen Brunson, just because of every of all that secondary creation and
scoring that he's given him. I think that's probably disappointing for Dallas because he's
more of a high floor than a high ceiling player. Ideally, Kris stops
Porzingis was the second best player and you're looking at Tim Hardaway Junior as the
third best. But that just hasn't been the case. And I agree with
you that based on the consistency of his output, Brentson has probably been the
second most valuable Blayer in Dallas this year. I'll also know, though,
he's not a guy who's going to be good enough to preclude the Mavericks from
chasing that second shot creator that they still really need alongside Luca don Chich.
When you just look at you know the burden he carries all game, but
even in crunch time when things start to bog down as well. Absolutely,
let's move on to Denver. Yes, I called an audible here, by
the way, just to warn you. Oh interesting, I'm excited to hear
what it is. But my argument here is basically a repeat of my argument
for Jalen Brunson, because Monte Morris is the same archetype of basketball player,
just the high floor, low ceiling, doesn't make mistakes, can fill all
the different roles player I've viewed him for a while as probably the best backup
guard in basketball. I think that he could be a starter for a different
team. He might have gotten more opportunities to start had he been healthy since
Jamal Murray went down with a torn acl But still, this guy just doesn't
make mistakes. You can count on him against any opponent to fill his role
without harming the team on any level. And it's again not for a lack
of involvement. He's a good shooter. He has a little bit of Chris
Paul in his game to his game, like where he can just kind of
dive across the lane and get those elbow jumpers whenever he Obviously he's not as
good as Chris PAULI doesn't have the upside of Chris Paul. But he can
fill that same kind of role for small doses, which is pretty important on
a Denver team that can't just foist all of the offensive responsibilities on Nikolai Yoka
to night in and night out. It canon, it does, and it
should. But like he needs a break occasionally, and when he when he
does, Monte Morris is crucial this team. I was waiting, I was
wondering how long it was going to take for you to compare Monte Morris to
a future Hall of Famer, and you did not disappoint, Subtu. You're
welcome, and I think he's He's the choice. If I had to,
if I was going to double up with you here, I'd go with Monte
Morris as well, which is I think so I was caught off guarded and
I didn't know he was going to be this good Defensively, I'm not going
to pretend to have walked a ton of of a kuno compazo before this season,
but I thought, like, why are you getting him when you have
Monte Morris. It ended up working out for them, so that was clearly
a flood take, but I thought maybe it portended they were less committed to
him. He's just super important to what they do. I was going to
pick Aaron Gordon. I don't know if Denver Nuggets chance would disagree, because
he hasn't been underrated there. The value they gave up for him shows that
they properly evaluated him, and it hasn't been you know, easy, you
know, smooth sailing since he's been there, And I think that his efficiency
will normalize as he gets more comfortable it'll be fine. I went with ja
Michael Green. I still think yeah for me to stay on rand. Look,
he's his numbers are never going to smack you in the face off the
page and the on off numbers this year they're not kind to him on offense.
But he's still a stretch big and while he can't anchor a defense,
which is why it's been so problematic for you know, insertinances to play him
at the five, he has good hands, good foot speed on defense for
for a big and when you're looking at the types of assignments he's had to
cover at least before that Aaron Gordon trade. Defensively, he's done a lot
more heavy lifting over there than I think he's been credited for. And this
is per b Ball Index. His matchup position estimate was a three point five
this year. Just to give you a hint of how much he he defended
small forwards almost twenty percent of the time, power forwards thirty seven percent of
the time, and centers a little over twenty percent of the time. He's
also switched on to some guards, both at the point guard and shooting gun
spot. He has defended every single position on at least ten percent of his
possessions this season. This is again perpe ball in deck. These are not
gospel stats, but I always find that interesting as a measure of switchability for
that and that's not someone I think it's talked about enough in that context.
He's still just a super important dude defensively and the fact that he can give
you some from floor spacing on offense. He's at forty one percent from three
this year and that's on just three point four tenths per game. You'd like
to see him crank up that volume, but he's also playing I think he's
under twenty minutes per game this year. I think he's someone who gives you
a path to actually using your depth in the playoffs, because you're never gonna
bounce Nakola Yokas from the floor. He's your five. But he can play
any any lineup combination you want to confier if you want it to be Yokichen
Green, you want to be Paul mill Stapping Green, Michael Porter Junior in
Green. Do you want to go super big with millsapp Green and maybe Yokich
or Millsapp Green and Porter Junior just get weird. He fits with whatever iteration
of the front court you want to roll out to. Michael Green is a
good example of how we're differentiating between the national view versus the local view.
It seems like so many different Nuggets throughout the season I've expressed how much they
like playing with him and how valuable he is to the defense that I think
there's a pretty good sense of how important he is to this team within that
local bubble, but on the on the national level. Agree with you,
that's an interesting way to look at this is as we go, I'm going
to try and note it whether these players are undervalued by their own team.
I wouldn't have said that about Bronson or Green to this point. I don't
think I would have said that about Well, this is only our second team,
so that's where we are. If you're you're ready to move on to
our third team, let's do it. This is gonna be an eight hour
podcast. Apparently that's always how we roll. So I had want to Anderson
here for the Warriors, who, by the way, have not who have
not converted his contract as far as I know, unless you've seen that,
Jta, Yeah, yeah, I find that to be wild. But he
he really gives them something from you name it, and he can just do
it. I think firmly he's their second most versatile defender after Draymond Green.
He might just be their second most important defender period. He can keep the
ball moving, he can shoot threes, he can excuse me, he can
navigate the half court when he does have the ball in his hands. And
I don't know that this is anybody who's going to ever serve a high volume
role, but whatever addition of the Warriors rolls out next season whenever they get
really good, I think he can fill just some sort of role. He's
pretty good cutter, and he's a good finisher. Off of those, he
just feels so many voids, probably none of them huge enough to be this
a fringe star or anything like that. But I think this is someone who
whether you want the Warriors to develop or if they want to be good next
year and they're making that all in trade with some of their other future assets,
I think he can help out and be a part of a really good
team. I don't know that you can say that with a lot of their
other players this season. Yeah, he feels like one of the few role
players on this team who seems almost certain to be a part of the next
competitive iteration of Golden State once everyone's healthy. I'll admit on this one in
my notes, I wrote down pass and then one Tiscano Anderson in parentheses.
I just I don't know that there's really a great option. I'm still not
convinced that Tascano Anderson is that much better than his reputation. But I think
he's the best choice if we have to pick somebody, because the other options
just aren't appealing. It's not going to be like Jordan Pool or Damian Lee
or Nico Mannion Eric Pascal, Like I feel like we know that he's just
this off the bench, like moderately efficient score that doesn't do that much else.
Draymond Green's offense has fallen to such an extent that I don't think that
we can make a case for him to be underrated as important as he is
to the schemes that Golden State runs on both ends of the floor. And
we already talked about Steph at the top, So yeah, like Jta it
is and also just perp b Bill next again, since I was on that
page when we were talking about Jamichael Green before of the two hundred and seventy
players, who have logged at least seven hundred minutes this season. He ranks
in the top ten of positional versatility on defense, So that just to give
you a little view into how valuably is there. He has guarded on partial
possessions every single position all five at least fifteen percent of the time. It's
impressive for sure. That brings us to Houston. I'm proud of your alphabetical
order this episode. Yeah, you're killing forcing me to navigate to every single
team, even though Houston is technically your team. So Houston was tough just
because they've had twenty seven different players suit up for organization this season. So
many of the headlines have been about James Harden and the trade and what they're
going to do following the trade. That it feels like the two potential corner
stones on this roster have kind of flown under the radar a little bit.
So I'm gonna make a dual selection here of Christian Wood and Kevin Porter Jr.
With Christian Wood, you know, it's it was pretty obvious how well
he was playing toward the tail end of his tenure with the Detroit Pistons,
and he got paid accordingly in free agency. But maybe it's because he was
injured at the start of the year and didn't really get to play much alongside
Harden, or maybe it's just because the national spotlight has shifted so far away
from this team that has just been free falling in the standings all season.
He's played fantastic basketball, like he's averaging twenty one point one points and nine
point eight rebounds, he's still hitting a bunch of three pointers at an efficient
clip. He's getting to the foul stripe where admittedly he could stand to work
on a stroke a bit, but at least he's getting there for now.
Like this is very much a potential All Star for the next few seasons,
who can be the centerpiece of a playoff caliber team, even in the Western
Conference. So I just I don't think that he's gotten enough attention because of
the circumstances. And the argument's really similar for Kevin Porter Junior, who has
just shown that he is this gifted natural scorer who can get buckets from all
three levels, who can work off passes, who can create his own shots,
and I wrote him down as the choice before the Houston Rockets one forty
three one thirty six victory over the Milwaukee Bucks on Thursday night, in which
Kevin Porter Junior had fifty points, five rebounds, and eleven assists, and
just gave me even more fodder here. I was about to say that that
was very convenient for you that he went off just before we recorded this podcast.
I did not have either of those two players, and I'm perfectly fine
with you selecting either one. I went with Sterling Brown, who hopefully he
continues to make a full recovery he's been. I'm almost surprised they didn't move
him at the deadline, just because I think that a contender really could have
used him. But he's shooting forty two point three percent from three this year.
We knew we could really do that. But he gives you a lot
of positional versatility on defense. That's something I keep coming back to. The
assignments he's had to shoulder there this season for Houston. They've been pretty tough.
They've even run him at point guard a little bit. And so if
you're going to get someone who can fill just you give contribute from so many
different areas. I think he I was surprised that he wasn't used more in
Milwaukee, and I was just also surprised that they weren't interested in keeping him,
especially how the the offseason shook out and they opted for you know,
maybe Tory Craig would have been a better fit for them, but they ended
up getting rid of him too, And so Sterling Brown feels like he's been
one of those players who's underrated for a while. Yeah, maybe he doesn't
shoulder enough volume until now, at least to say he was three in D
this season, you could absolutely say he was three in D and he gave
you just a little bit of breaking cage of emergency ball handling as well.
I think it's a great choice. I'm just I wanted to defer to this
are caliber players who we feel certain are going to be there for the next
competitive version of this team, because I think the circumstances have allowed for it.
But I think in terms of pure skill level versus national recognition that that's
a perfectly fine selection. Let's see if I get this this next team right,
do you trust it for the Los Angeles Clippers? Well done? Again?
Is this me first or you first? You just said this is so
I believe me first. There. I really could not narrow this down at
all. I think Nicholas Patum, the Clippers leader in minutes this season total
minutes, Nicholas Patum, He's been still just a shocking stat right, And
it's it makes sense when you look at just their availability. And I actually
didn't double check the stat before we record. It's nice. Maybe I should
double check it, but it happened at one point, and yes, it's
it's easily explained away with all the injuries they've dealt with, but just the
circumstances under which he came when he's been so bad, when he was so
bad excuse me in Charlotte and now playing a pinole role for Even if you're
disappointed with the Clippers this season, who I watched and I'm impressed, but
they still just they lose these games. Sometimes it's like WTF. Anyway,
Reggie Jackson has been great for them. I do almost have to order do
we throw a Rondo in there? Because people he's a constant meme and he's
been pretty good for them. And it's not even the playoffs yet. There
are a ton of options here, right. I still think that by the
way, they gave up too much for him, but it does look like
he's going to be a lot better than expected. I settled on Zubats,
I still don't think, and he's definitely appreciated within the Clippers fan base.
This is someone whose viewed is like this plotting big, and he's really not.
He's a very quick guy around the rim, can give you strong contest
there, deter shots, block them out right, and then on offense he
is just he's a runaway freight train, but like has nimble feet too,
so there's like speed and dexterity and coordination there where he's sort of zooming towards
towards the basket and gives you a level of physicality too on your screens.
This is he's a two way player. I'm not gonna say he's one of
the best two way bigs, but he's just not as slow footed as people
think that he is on defense, and he provides you actual value on offense,
He's I would say, he gives you serge. Ibaka is going to
space the floor, but I would argue that Zubots is going to give you
more of the role gravity on offense, which is something that I would also
argue the Clippers need more than really what Abaka has done for them, and
he hasn't played and what feels like a trillion years. You need abaka.
You like having that floor spacing element. But if you really wanted to go
five out, like you have Marcus Morris at the five standing right there,
there's not another player on this roster who gives you what Zoobots does. It's
not you know, it's not the Marcus Cousins than it really never was his
stile and it certainly isn't now so that that player who can give you off
ball rim pressure on offense and then still sort of hold his ground and not
get beat too badly. There's certainly bad matchups rim on defense, but who
is going to give you just stout rim protection. He's a two way player,
and I just don't think he gets talked about enough in that manner.
Nationally, it feels like he's also gaining a larger and larger portion of the
offensive share and is carving out more importance in the scheme on both ends as
the season progresses, like it feels like he might be a very crucial element
to the inevitable title push that they make in the playoffs. But he was
still my number two choice here. I'm going the star route because while I
don't think you want Paul George to be the unquestioned leader in the locker room,
probably not the number one option on a title favorite either, he does
not get enough credit anymore, and I get why because he's had so many
high profile letdowns in the playoffs. It feels like every time he's featured in
a postseason moment these days, it's for the wrong reasons, whether Damian Lillard
was hitting a series ending shot over him from a ridiculous distance, or he
was a central figure in the three to one lead collapse against the Denver Nuggets
in last year's playoffs and had not great things to say, and the pressers
afterwards like he's gotten a lot of negative attention, to the point that I
don't think he's getting nearly enough credit for being the nightly top ten player that
he can be. I don't think that's hyperbolic at all. Given the suffocating
wing defense that he plays, the versatility and the positions that he can guard
regardless of who that opponent may be, the ability to take over as a
scorer from all three levels. We don't talk enough about how George has become
an unquestionably elite three point shooter. Last season, it was forty one point
two percent on seven point nine attempts per game. This year it's forty two
point two percent on seven point six attempts per game. That consistency from beyond
the arc is huge, and he's coupling it with efficient free throw shooting,
which is a must for this Clippers team that doesn't attack the basket enough.
And we're also seeing him develop into maybe the best passer he's been at any
stage of his career right now, Like, this is a guy who should
be featured prominently in every conversation about the ten best basketball players in the world,
and instead we want to remember the playoff failures, and that's just not
fair to him. I also think I agree with everything you said, which
is why I thought it was fine that you went with a superstar here.
I do think he's responsible for his own means sometimes I'll say that much.
But it was really disheartening when he came out and said he was dealing with
just what I can't remember. It was anxiety or just being depressed inside the
bubble. There needed to be more empathy there, and there's there's stuff that's
actually funny where he's like I need to get back to that season, my
MVP season that you never want MVP. That's funny, but when a player
comes out, let's not troll them when they're talking about it was even with
me, didn't credit mantres. Harold wasn't really he came to the bubble late,
I believe, So there was that on one off, and he was
also mourning the death of his grandmother, Like there are human elements that we
just need to consider a lot more, and it was kind of disheartening to
see how much it was ignored with Paul George, like he was trying to
say that to gain fake sympathy, artificial sympathy, or just some sort of
clout. We need to figure out how to tow the line here better,
because I actually think it's pretty easy to separate when Paul George deserves be memed
versus what is a legitimate excuse. So I'm with you on everything you said
there, and that's the only other aspect I would add. And I agree
with you that he is responsible for some of those memes, like he does
not say well, he probably says the right things sometimes in press conferences that
you just shouldn't say because you know what the reaction is going to be,
and it's just going to backfire even if you're being honest. And yeah,
I mean like he has had letdowns in big moments, But it just feels
like the general discourse is too quick to jump on the flaws and try to
use him as a reason that the Clippers are just perpetually going to underachieve with
this roster construction, instead of focusing on the fact that this guy is one
of the best shooters in the world, one of the best wing defenders in
the world, and can do so much between those two roles. I'm tally
with you. This one's easy. So I'm apparently going to go through all
the teams, even if you're starting them, just to prove I not a
spell the Lakers. I love that we have you doing this. I really
do not remember seeing you send through that clip, so as soon as we
hang up here, I think I might need you to re send it because
it feels like that's fairly ever green. It was pretty bad. Oh,
it was. It was. It was pretty bad. It was twice.
Yeah, it was not great. You missed your chance to put that clip
public though I think I deleted it already. It's probably in our text box,
though you can look at the details in that if you really want it,
I'll need to. But yeah, good job going from one LA team
to the other. I'm gonna go with Alex Caruso here. I think that
it's a similar, albeit very different argument to the Paul George one, where
the memes have overtaken the player. Like there's so much focus on the fact
that Bleacher Report and other outlets with prominent social media activity over post about him
because, for whatever reason, the Bald Mamba or whatever his current nickname djor
is wants to be posted about a lot so that it gets lots of attention
because fans love them some Crusoe content. But that's almost overshadowed the fact that
he's been a really effective role player for the Lakers team for a few years
running. Now. He's not ever going to be a star despite how many
posts are about him. He's not ever going to score a lot of points.
But you know that he can run the show as a backup point guard
and involve his teammates. You know that he can attack the basket and show
off the hops and throw it out a dunker too. He's a good shooter.
He's a good defender. He hustles every time he's out there. He's
one of those guys who seems to know that he has to just play his
heart out to make sure that he keeps getting those minutes. He's also really
athletic. He's also a really good shooter. Like, yeah, he's he's
gonna get made fun of a lot, and he's going to show up more
than he should because of the memes. But the attention is not the right
kind. He deserves more attention as a good basketball player. I went with
and this is I almost consider Kyle Kuzma. I went with Markus. All
field Wakers fans have been very frustrated with his play, and I'm just as
curious as to what more they've expected of him. I know he doesn't I
know he doesn't shoot. That's always sort of been his thing. Can you
guess how many players on the team are averaging fewer field goal attempts for thirty
six minutes than Marc Gasol? None? Three, Jared Dudley. Oh,
actually it's really only two, so excuse me. Jared Dudley and Coosis attend
to Kompo. That's you know, you're averaging a little surprising. Yeah,
there's so. I get that frustration, But would you rather watch Andre Drummond
just miss a bunch of two pointers because that's really what you're you're going to
see. And he's been Look, he's not like this super He's never been
super quick on defense. It's about being in the right spot for him.
Opponents are shooting under sixty percent against him at the rim, and for what
it's worth, he is shooting over isn't he over forty percent from three this
season? Should have looked that up too. He's at He's at thirty eight
point seven percent from three. That's the volume matters. I understand two point
five attempts per game is not a lot, but he's shooting thirty eight point
seven percent from three. I just don't know what more you want it he
gives you some of that passing i Q. I think this is someone who
really could help the Lakers and helped them even more during the No. Lebron
No A D stretch than he really had a chance to. And I'm curious
to see what ends up happening in the postseason, where I do think Anthy
Davis plays a lot of five and so maybe it doesn't matter about Tres versus
Gasol versus Andre Drummond, but he might be the big that I'd be more
inclined to go. I'd certainly play him more than I would Andre Drummond.
I'll make that clear. There might be a debate with Montres Harold because of
the pressure he can help you put on the rim, and he's someone who's
not afraid to shoot. But at the point where it's how did Mark Gasol
become like this? Like outcast in LA I'll be honest, I have routinely
forgotten that Mark Gasol is on the Lakers just he doesn't play enough. I
think it's as simple as that. Like, we know just how much of
an impact he can make on a title contender because he's done it year after
year after year after year. And the decline was never going to be this
stark, given how much of his game relies on positioning and outthinking the opposition
and knowing what players are developing before they actually start to develop. Like,
his game is not based on the explosive athleticism that other players are, so
this decline should not have been stark enough to justify falling this far out of
the primary rotation. Yeah, he's had seven DNP coach coaching decisions in their
last eleven games, which just that feels wild to me. It does pressures
on Memphis Grizzlies. Just kidding. You just nail one after another. I'm
really impressed with your spelling today. I did not nail the fact that it's
my turn to start, though, So there were we settled on just the
Memphis Grizzlies. That's who we're picking. Is the most underrated player is just
the Memphis Grips. Yeah, we both just picked the whole roster. The
two. For me, we're between Dampy Melton and Kyle Anderson. I would
have had Kyle Anderson. I think he might be one of the I mean,
Melton, could you say this about the whole team. Kyle Anderson,
we talked about him on a previous podcast. He's hitting his threes now and
taking him which matters as well. He's gonna be moved around a little bit
on defense where he uses space disadvantage because he's not super quick. When he
has the ball in his hands and is navigating the half court, you feel
super confident. I still don't understand his body mechanics. I've compared him to
one of those inflatable tubeman at the sketchy car dealerships that billow in the wind.
It looks like he's going eighty different directions, but not in super fast
motion, and yet you can't keep up with him. At the same time,
very high IQ player, and he used at disadvantage on defense two and
he can just fill the box score from all over the place. It's no,
he's not gonna put up like twenty and ten and five, but he's
gonna give you just you know, he's gonna give you a steal, I'll
block a game, and he's gonna give you some rebounding. He's gonna give
you some secondary playmaking. He's gonna score, you know, his between twelve
and sixteen points a game and just be rock solid for that. The Anthony
Melton has just been a monster this season. It's truly terrifying that his three
ball is going in. And there was the article written I can't remember you
credited on this podcast. You remember who wrote it? I was going I
was going to again. Yeah, it's it's Owen Phillips. So Owen Phillips
wrote about his just substantial three point improvement where he's shooting forty four point three
percent, and I think it was his percentage increases like the single biggest in
the league. We might be talking about a different article because the Owen Phillips
article I was. I was planning a reference that I did in the last
episode. He got data from Basketball Reference about how many page views each player
in the NBA it had and compared that to their scores and catch all metrics,
and the Anthony Melton was like the obvious outlier in a positive way,
like his page views in no way are justified by his performance. I must
have read. I think I said that the increase for him at whatever rate
was just huge because it's he's improved a three point percentage. He was at
eight point six percent last year on roughly half the volume that he's taking now
forty four point three percent this year, So we're talking about a fifteen point
seven point percentage increase That is absolutely massive and just he is the Grizzlies can
rough you up on defense, and he's just one of the primary reasons why
he's a guard. But he and he's not going to go up against the
best player. Part of that I also feel like, is he forces the
ball out of people's hands, even if they are a score that might be
their first inclination. It's just not really going to happen if you're playing Melton
at least, it's not going to happen easily. So and then he can
give you it's not just hey, he needs to defend these smaller players.
He's you know, you should probably be using him mostly just against guards,
but he can give you some wing minutes too, and that's been absolutely huge.
So I landed and I couldn't decide between them. I think that Kyle
Anderson, just given what he could do as a creator, I might lean
as more valuable or perhaps more underrated, because we're maybe it's easier to notice
Melton this season because of that huge increase from three. Those two players have
been absolutely fantastic for them. I think you can just close your eyes and
point to the Memphis depth chart and you'll probably find somebody who's underrated, because
beyond Dylan Brooks and Kyle Anderson, Like I think you can make a case
for Grayson Allen, you can make a case for Desmond Bayan, for Xavier
Tillman. My backup choice is Dylan Brooks, who just I think because he
signed a big contract and then was featured primarily as an inefficient scorer, it's
gone very overlooked that he's become a rock solid defender who is responsible for taking
on some of the toughest matchups on a nightly basis and still thrives on that
preventing end. But my choice has to be Jonas Valanciunis, just because I've
called him the most underrated player in the NBA for like two seasons running now,
and it feels like this season in particular, he's really started to justify
that. He's increasing his importance within the offensive schemes, especially lately around a
three game absence that I believe was due to a cushion. Over his last
twenty six games, he's averaging eighteen point six points and thirteen point one rebounds.
He's shooting sixty two percent for the field, thirty eight point five percent
from three point range, seventy nine point three percent on free throws. The
Grizzlies are outscoring opponents by three point four points per game when he's on the
floor, which is huge with a Western Conference heavy schedule. Valent Judas is
a solid interior defender a good rim protector, a good health defender. He's
an underrated passer when they choose to feature him as such. He can space
the floor, he can score efficiently around the basket, like they're really it
really doesn't feel like there's a weak spot in his game, and he's just
flown beyond below the radar for so long because he's played on teams with bigger
names, you know, the Kyle Lowry, Damarto Rosen pairing in Toronto and
playing next to John Morant in Memphis. Now like he might be that team's
best player this season. Zalent Junis is a really good choice. And I
think, like you mentioned, he sort of has a probably been so underrated
for the past few years, dating back to even when the Raptors traded him,
that it feels like he should have graduated from this discussion, but the
fact that he hasn't sort of proved your point type deal, I think.
My my follow up question is, do you agree that he's been the best
player from memphisis year? Oh, that's a really good I think I think
he's been more consistently valuable than John Morant. John Morant is clear they're the
most important player there's been some if he's shooting from him and he did miss
some time, so there's a chance. If it's not going to be Valentinoting,
I don't know who, maybe Kyle Anderson. It's not going to be
Brooks. I'm trying to you know, it's not James Jackson Junior. Only
just started playing, So yeah, I think it's it's awesome. I think
it's Valancinus. I did not. That's an interesting thought exercise. I never
even I never even considered that for the for this, I would just default
to John Morant because he's John Morant. But still, I think you have
a pretty salient point there. Minnesota Timberwolves. I'm on fire, just gonna
go from right to the right team. Who did you have for them?
I went with Josha Kogie. I don't think that there is a particularly great
choice for this team because they aren't very good, But I'm gonna go with
the Kogi just because he has established himself as this high energy, ball hawking
defensive presence who is able to fill a bunch of different voids and very much
does defend the opposition's best garter wing on a nightly basis. Granted, that's
not particularly tough to do when the other options are the other members of the
Timberwolves. But the ability to play above average defense on a defensive team this
bad is important and among a lot of not great options, that's what I'm
going to go with. I'm surprised you didn't. I'm surprised being double dip
here with Jane McDaniels, because I think that's the clear answer. He's been
the way he plays, I kind of forget that he's a rookie and he's
been so valuable for them defensively too, and we talk about how much they
need to find their four of the future to go alongside Karl Anthony Towns.
I would agree that they do, but he might be closer than not to
being the answer as someone who can space the floor. He can not the
most efficient guy where're gonna put the ball in his hands, but he could
sort of rumble towards the basket when he does put it on the floor.
And like I already mentioned at the top of this discussion, like you can
plug him on a lot of different offensive archetypes, so to speak, and
he's gonna hold up reasonably well. I don't know how much you want him
you know, do you want someone who can trade off with Anthony Davis and
defend all these bigs. That might be something where yeah, we've seen him
go up against some of the some centers this year, but I don't know
if that's like the role that he can do. But if you can have
someone who's going to be able to switch onto primary ball handlers, guards,
wings can sort of go up against bigger players a little bit in addition to
defending his own position, I think I don't know if there's a four,
and I mean if you go Lebron at the four of that type of stuff,
there's just he's not going to be overmatched in many of his assignments and
that's going to be valuable to this team. And the fact that he's doing
it so soon it's important because this is a team that does want to be
good relatively quickly after trading away. Even if they keep their pick this year
or top three protection, the timeline here is still on the more accelerated side.
With three years left on Towns, his deal off two Daniel Russells after
that, and the fact that they gave away that type of equity to get
Delo. You're either giving the Warriors a pick this year or you're giving them
an unprotected pick next year. And so this is not They have to look
and feel a little bit of a rebuilding team, but they need answers and
there is urgency. And I think he's someone more so than a kogie.
I just because I think Daniels has shown you more bank ability on offense.
And that's just it comes down to stretching the floor where if you want someone
who's gonna put pressure on the basket, Yeah, you can go with Josh.
That's great there too. I would still just lean towards him be more
important long term than in a koge might. I think you could even argue
you always he more important. He's definitely more important long term than Rubio.
He might be someone who fits with the best iteration of the Timberwolves more so
than D'Angelo Russell, definitely more than Jared Cover right now, probably not Anthy
Edwards, that's clearly the second most important timber Wolf. But I think Jay
McDaniels is steadily working his way up that ladder. Yeah, in all honesty,
I think McDaniels is a better answer than a coogie. I think the
reason I didn't consider McDaniels really at any point during the exercise, was just
that we'd talked about him on a recent episode. I think you had.
You had showered him with praise before a lot of other people were, and
so in my head, he was already getting a little recognition when he probably
isn't to the extent that he should nationally. So I'll defer to you on
that one. But do you know who's who's up next? Oh? This
is do this one? New Orleans Pelicans. That's why I was playing music
well done, because I knew they well done, Pelicans. I'm impressed.
Are they my team or your team? Oh? They're my team. I
have no idea. I'm gonna go with Josh Hart here. I do.
There's like this tendency to think that he shoots a higher percentage from three than
he actually does, and so I don't know if he necessarily typifies the three
in d aspect of three point shooting. He definitely doesn't this year when you're
at under thirty three percent from beyond the arc and he's been first of all,
he's only been above thirty five percent once in his career, and so
I get that they're shaking. Is there There's also how valuable is his rebounding
when you look at the contested versus uncontested rebounding percentages. I still think if
you're going to have someone who is six five and can grab, he has
a twenty six point three defensive rebounding weight, that's got to be valuable in
some form. He can't keep the ball moving and then he is a dog
on the defensive end. This is someone I think who can give you minutes
one through four basically certainly two through four. And it's been during his time
in New Orleans where they've given him some of those power forward minutes. Those
lineups have generally been interesting and you can't lean on them. If Zion is
going to be your five, just that portends being a defensive nightmare. I
would assume that being said, I'm curious to see what he gets. And
restricted free agency also, because they've already paid Ingram, they gave Steven Adams
that extension, Lonzo Ball isn't restricted free agency as well, and so if
they pay him his heart someone who could fall through the cracks because there aren't
you know, everyone wants three in d wings and if you think that he
can shoot better on your team, aside from being someone who could just you
know, he'll give you some pressure on the basket. Thirty percent of his
shots are coming inside three feet, so he can be used in that vein.
If you just have better spacing than New Orleans has had this year,
he might be more valuable to you. And that's not to say that he
hasn't been good for New Orleans and that he goes to another team, is
his shots just going to improve dramatically. But if you think that this is
better than what is right now a career thirty four point eight percent shooter,
and that's generous because his past three seasons have each been barely thirty four percent
or lower. He's at thirty three point six percent from three over the last
three seasons. What he does for you defensively can be absolutely monstrous. I'm
still gonna go with Lonzo Ball here. I think the conversation around him has
typically centered on what he doesn't do well or where he's going to go in
restricted free agency. We questioned his fit alongside Zion Williamson and the Pelicans for
two years running now, and it feels like the stark improvements that he's made
this season have largely gone overlooked, like they've been mentioned a few times,
but then they quickly get brushed aside for speculation about whether he's gonna end up
with the New York Knicks as a restricted free agent or if he's the point
guard of the future in New Orleans. It always seems like the conversations are
about the future and not the present, which is a shame because he's developed
from an unquestionable shooting liability to one of the more efficient three point snipers in
the league. So I'll tell you that there are nine players this season who
are qualified for the three point leaderboard and are taking at least eight threes a
game and connecting at a thirty eight percent clip or better. You want to
try to name the nine? Can you read that back to me? Thirty
eight percent, shooting eight threes per game, attempting eight threes per game.
Yep. Steph's gotta be one of them. Steph's one of them. Duncan
Robinson, Duncan Robinson's one of them. I feel like I'm gonna is Deavis
Berton's one of them. He is not, all right, spoil it for
me. Lonzo Ball is one of them. So the nine are Steph Curry,
Donovan Mitchell, Zach Lavine, Terry Rosier, CJ McCollum, Duncan Robinson,
a Lonzo Ball, Buddy Healed, and Malik Beasley. I feel like
three years ago we would have been shocked, just downright stupefied the Lonzo Ball
was in that group. Where's the recognition? I will say, I thought
you were implying he was in that group, which is why they wouldn't have
named him. But I'm not sure how many of those names I would have
gotten if we kept going that is, but it's still a very elite group
of shooters. My question to you, though, is what is he as
a point guard? He is a great he He is a great point guard
as long as you have a guy who can handle and create from a non
traditional spot, so on a team with Brandon Ingram and Zion Williamston, I
still love his fit now that he's a reliable shooter. He's a good pass
He's a good passer, especially in a secondary role where he gets to catch
defenses scrambling after receiving a swing pass. He's a good defender in the backcourt.
He's a good rebounder, and he's become a reliable shooter. Like,
as long as you have a team like New Orleans, where you have players
who can create for themselves and others from the non point guard spots, I
think he fits just fine. The issue in New Orleans is just the lack
of shooting in the complete lack of defense. But I don't think it's Lonzo
Ball's fit. I'm gonna be disappointed if he isn't there next year. He
isn't in New Orleans, Yeah, I really want him to stay because I
think he can take this team to a higher level once the right supported cast
is around the three incumbents. I do think that's part of the problem with
him, and I agree with everything you said, is that you can't sign
him to be your point guard and run the offense in that way. Like,
yeah, there's the level of he can be that offensive intercessor for you
and help you distribute usage a little bit better. But if you need to
slow things down in the half court, run pick and roll, or you
want someone who's gonna try and get to the basket, get to the line,
or even just want to score off the dribble, really get into the
teeth of the defense, that's not him, And that's fine that it's not
him. I don't it's not We don't need to view him in that context.
You do need that type of player next to him otherwise I don't know
how valuable he then is to your team, If that makes any sense,
I agree, and I think Kyra Lewis Junior could get there. Eric Bledsoe
was supposed to be that kind of guy but just clearly hasn't been. Like,
I think it's pretty clear that those those days are behind him. The
bat player might not be on their roster, they might have a tough time
acquiring him. But I don't think that Lonzo Ball is not ever going to
be an All Star. He's not going to be an All NBA figure.
He's not a perfect point guard, he's not an all around player. But
if we're talking about like high end role players, low level starters kind of
thing, like, I think he absolutely fits the bill in a positive beneficial
way. I'm with you. He's gonna cost twenty plus million dollars this season,
I would I would estimate, and I guess the player we're talking about,
they'll probably come closest with. Kyra Lewis is probably the best option.
I don't think it's the key. Yeah, I think so. It's probably
our next team, the Oklahoma City Thunder, because I'm a buyer. Just
nail him everyone. I'm gonna go with Darius Baseley here. It's it's tough
because the Thunder aren't really like trying to win games right now. You know.
I don't know if they're like all out tanking, but they are.
They're they're definitely like playing for the draft picks right now because they don't have
enough of them, and it's given Baseley an opportunity to shine, which he
has. He's still not consistent floor spacer, but this is a guy who
has shown some surprising craftiness off the dribble, who has been able to pull
down a defensive rebound and go coast to coast. He can attack the basket
and finish with authority. He can hit some pull up shots. He's got
a developing floater game like. He is closer to an all around scorer than
not, and that could even change if he develops any semblance of a three
point shot, which we certain he certainly could based on the improvements we've seen
at the Charity Stripe. The numbers he pulled up put up from the three
point arc during his rookie season, Like, I think there's even more to
plumb here, and the Thunders should already be excited about the upside that he's
shown in the second half of his sophomore season. I'm also going with arisbas
Abia. I thought you were gonna go with Moses Brown here. I'm with
everything you just said, and I do think that there's more. You know,
since he's come back from his shoulder injury too, he's been not lights
out. The three point shot is still struggling. He's taking five of them
per game over his last ten. This is since his return, eighteen point
eight points per game though, to assist, and I do think he can.
He will show. He'll continue to show better vision off the dribble and
make better decisions because his assisted turnover ratio now is let's just say it's not
great. I think it's really just the polite way to put it. But
some of the shots he's taking inside the arc, the fact that he's almost
a fifty percent of his twos this year would be encouraging for me. He's
improved his finishing around the basket. He really needs to get that in between
game down, and you mentioned his free throw shooting. I think I'm sort
of encouraged by This is the second consecutive season where he's been around thirty seven
percent on his long twos. No, those are not a huge part of
his game, but he's shown that he can hit them. And then,
like you said, the three point clip and lower volume as a rookie,
and he's I would say, he's you're gonna use him at the three or
the four long term, I want to see more Darius Basley at the five.
If you want to have you know you're gonna have Poku. There's Moses
Brown as well, So I don't know how many minutes that you're gonna resally
want to squeeze him there. I assume how Horford won't be there beyond this
season, but that's something that I think they could go to and will be
reasonably interesting, especially if Shay and Lou Dort are on the floor, because
none of that really opens up, especially with Dort how you want to if
you want to mix and match with things defensively. And you considered Shay too,
didn't you. I did, because we talked about him at the last
pot too, So I don't want to go in depth there, but I
don't know that people consider him this consensus MAX type player or can he be
the best Can he be the best player on a contender right now? The
answer might be no, But just the efficiency he's juggled with incredibly high usage
on a unfathomably difficult shot selection eighty seven percent. I'll reiterate this, eighty
seven percent of his made baskets have been unassisted, which is the highest mark
in the league among four hundred and twenty five plus players who have appeared in
at least fifteen games. And that's still a dude who was shooting better than
forty percent from three, almost fifty five percent from two. I think he's
at like fifty four point three percent. I don't have his numbers in front
of me and doing that for memory, So I think he is that player.
Maybe not immediately right now, but he's on that trajectory base off what
we've seen this season, and I wouldn't hesitate to give him a MAX extension.
And just a quick shout out to Moses Brown, He's basically Will Chamberlain,
So maybe maybe better on defense than Will. Yeah, I don't I
don't know that he's quite the squoer will. It was like we might only
see a ninety point game out of him at some point, but like pretty
similar players. Yeah, after the Oklahoma City Thunder, we have the Phoenix
Suns, which is a team that I get to start off with. I'm
going with Tory Craig here, and he probably there was a seamless transition.
By the way, you're welcome. I cannot believe that they got him for
free except for cash. That there was cash that they Phoenix sent to Milwaukee.
And he's not No, I want to make this clear. He's not
averaging like fifteen points a game, and I'll be curious to see how his
efficiency holds up in the playoffs. But they're using him, and they're using
him in a way where it's not just because abdiel Nader has been injured.
They've just actually leaned on him. He does a lot for them defensively,
and then I've been very impressed with what he's done on offen for them,
thirty nine point six percent from three in Phoenix, two point four attempts per
game, so not a ton and he's gonna be left open in the playoffs
if he's on the floor, so he has to hit those if you want
to keep him on the floor. He's a he's a pretty good cutter,
and then he will also he scored a little bit on drives too. He
can do a little bit with the ball in his hands. And then he
was, uh, you know, he's someone who can give you just put
back from the wing, putbacks from the wing position. I haven't seen a
I don't see many wings crash the offensive glass like he does. And that's
always been kind of a he's done it, but been an understated part of
his game, and he doesn't do it in a way that compromises you getting
back on defense. I don't think it's not him really chasing offensive rebounds.
He just seems to be there, or he knows when there's open lanes and
how he can follow someone else's shot or his own shot, and that's super
valuable. And I think he made to get back to what he's able to
do cutting. He was thirteen of thirteen on cuts to start his Phoenix tenure.
This is someone who can be used in more than one way offensively,
and then knowing on the upside, would he gives you on defense, which
is I would say he's going to defend three positions one through three, and
I can give you some minutes against fours. I actually think they've even played
him against some fives. I'm not saying you can defend all five positions,
but that's a ton of versatility right there. He could end up being sneaky
huge for them in the playoffs, especially if it's a game where they want
to downsize because Aton's maybe not playing well and perhaps they don't trust starts just
defensively because he's been better than I expected on D this season. But I
think he can get you know, teams can get by him if they're going
to be aggressive in the half court, and if those teams are small enough.
Tory Craig's last Jay Crowder in the front court. Maybe Cam Johnson's on
the floor to another underrated guy by the way, I think people view him
as a shooter. He's held up defensively as well in his first two seasons,
but Tory Craig is the pick for me. I think Cam Johnson is
more than held up defensively, like he's been an actual asset on the defensive
end and capable of even manning the five and some small ball lineups. I
think what helps is they've been very strategic about who they're putting him on,
which I think him for sure favor, but that's I'm not trying to take
away from him. Oh and I'll wait for you to say who you picked
so that I can explain why I didn't pick him very quickly because he is
my brand. Do you want me to just let you do that before I
give my justification or do you want to go after Hill the name because you
didn't reveal it yet? Okay, Well, you can talk about mckail Bridges
now. I think he's graduated from this. I named him the most underrated
player in the NBA last season, and I just think he's good enough to
have graduated from that. I don't think he's fully appreciated yet, but what
Tory Craig has done, and knowing Adam was going to give him some love
anyway. And the only thing I'll add there is that we haven't done our
award yet. But I'm pretty sure I'm putting him on all defense this year.
I'm not sure about you. I would as well, and that's part
of why I want to have him here. I think he's definitely more appreciated
now than he was last season. Craig might objectively be a better choice,
but in keeping with what seems to becoming our tradition here, I'll go at
the higher end underrated player. You know, you hear Chris Paul now getting
MVP chants in opposing arenas and you know, probably erroneously being mentioned in the
MVP conversation. Devin Booker is still going to get so much attention in Phoenix
because he's Devin Booker. But Mckillbridges has really been a glue holding this team
together throughout the entire season. He's continuing to develop the diversity of his game
on offense, his switchability and just overall defensive ferocity should get him a place
on one of the all defensive teams this season, which I now know you
agree with. And he's also become a very reliable three point shooter, which
is a must for wings in today's game on these championship caliber teams, especially
because you're going to play with some big men who aren't always spacing the floor.
So I cherry picked the ever loving shit out of this stat just to
be clear, but there are only two players in the NBA who are averaging
at least zero point eight steals, zero point eight blocks, shooting forty percent
from three on at least four attempts per game. And those two are Hill
Bridges Shocker right, and Danny Green, who is like basically viewed as the
prototypical three and d wing over the last decade, so like he kind of
fits that role now. Yeah, and look, he's a fantastic cutter.
He's shown that he can give you some secondary playmaking. Doesn't need to as
much this season, but specifically last year. When you're looking at it,
you're not going to catch any arguments for me. He is extension eligible this
season, and we saw that OG got four years and seventy two million.
I would guess that he waited for restricted free agency, he probably would have
gotten closer to four years and ninety million or somewhere around there. I'm curiously
what happens with Michael Bridges, because my bet would be if he signs an
extension, it's because Phoenix offered him substantially more than OG got from the Raptors.
Yeah, I just I just pray that Phoenix does not let him go
at any point in the foreseeable future because he is He's just so vital to
the outside of this team. This next team was tough, the Portland trail
Brozers. Who did you have for tough alphabetically or tough to choose one?
It was tough alphabetically because I really wanted to skip the ps and go right
to the Kings. But here we are. I'm proud of you. I
went with Ennis Cantor. I think it's funny once you do this exercise for
both conferences, and we both put a ton of thought into these selections,
and just like trying to pick the best player, not necessarily the most popular
answer, I feel like you discover some tendencies about who your picks are going
to be, and mine often seemed to be players where the national discourse focuses
more on what they can't do than what they can do. And I think
if there is one emblematic person of that discrepancy, it's Ennis Cantor, because
all you hear is like, this guy can't play defense, he doesn't have
shooting range. He has held back teams in the past, and that that
comes at the expense of the things he does really really well, which is
rebound the bass the ball, especially on the offensive end. Of the court
where he creates so many second chance opportunities, and he's a really gifted scorer
around the hoop. He does not often miss two point attempts. He can
make them in a wide variety of ways, and he's fairly matchup proof on
the offensive end of the floor, Like there's no one player you can put
against Enna's canter and know that you're going to keep him from getting twenty and
ten if he's given the requisite minutes to do that. If you give him
a more physical defender, he can shim me his way around. If you
put a more versatile defender on him, he can just overpower them. So
this year, the Portland Trailblazers are four point seven points per one hundred possessions
better with him on the floor than they are without him. The Boston Celtics
saw similar trend last year. So this is just another one of those players
where I wish we didn't focus on the flaws because it prevents us from appreciating
the really extreme strengths. Can I go with April Aberny Simmons and I'm in
lockstep with you, where the only thing that I think Scanner has done wrong
this season is let Terry Stotts play him next to Carmelo Anthony in some of
those second units earlier. I don't think that those have been staple minutes of
late, but he's been been great for them. He can be a terror
in the post, like he said, but he always seems to defend just
a little bit better in Portland and I don't think he's been great this year,
but relative to the rest of his career. Maybe I'm just harkening back
to his first in Portland a couple of years ago. Can I go with
the month of April and Anthony Simons, which is his I've heard he can
make like nine threes in a row, right, and it's I don't know
if you remember, but it's rookie season. He had that game towards the
end of the regular season with against the Kings where he just went off,
and that's why a lot of people decided that he was, you know,
a long term building block or untouchable and could be someone that was going to
be really good for the Blazers. Has a true shooting percentage over sixty in
the month of April for his career. I thought about also that was a
joke, but it also kind of wasn't. I think Robert Covington belongs here
a little bit too, can play bigger than he actually is, and he's
quietly shooting almost thirty eight percent from this year. He's not the best one
on one defender, but he's a really good defender. A good team defender
is going to get deflections away from the ball. He can force the ball
out of guy's hands. I don't know how comfortable you feel if he's your
you know, if he's your top man guy, where you have to put
him on the highest usage person night in and night out. That's something that
Portland has basically had to do. He's their most frequent I believe I would
have to check that most frequent defender against number one options. I don't know
how cut out for he is for that. He's not the reason that Portland's
defense has been as bad as it is, which is also why use of
Narkige might belong here. They're defensive minutes with him on the court have not
been terrible, and so I think that you could easily make the case for
him. Didn't start the year so hot, but even just through all like
the wonkiness on offense and is he moving right on defense earlier. Since he's
come back, he's been mostly stellar for them, and just looking at the
on off splits for him defensively, they really do work in his favor.
So they're a bunch of I guess different. I would say Derick Jones Jr.
Feels fairly underappreciated by Portland, at least because we saw Ron Hollis Jefferson
get so many minutes and the fact that he's still just in the pecking order
that far behind Carmelo Anthony. In certain situations, I would say, like
you just shouldn't be afraid to leave Mellow on the bench and crunch time.
But this was a tough team for me. I think you picked the right
player though that Ennis Canner is still viewed as this memorable player on defense and
he's been something so much more, especially to this team on offense. Let's
move on to the Sacramento Kings. I had Rashaun Holmes here. We've talked
about him a lot on this podcast, so I don't know if he necessarily
is still considered underrated, but there's been talk about are the King's going to
be able to keep him with his early bird rights where they would be allowed
to before they have to create cap space, paying about ten million a year.
I think he's gonna come AHND, substantially more than that. He's been
great this season. Gives you a little bit of everything. On offense,
I'd like to actually see them let him, you know, explore shooting threes.
I think that's a part. I can't remember it was Philly or Phoenix,
but he hinted at that part of his game. Still solid role man.
We know he's still shooting one trillion percent on his floaters. He is
thirty three of thirty nine in transition this year. That's eighty four point six
six percent. And the way he moves in the half court two it's like
he's probably not the strongest roller in the NBA, but he knows how to
navigate traffic and it's like he glides essentially, and he gives you there's mobility.
On defense, He's not going to anchor a great defense, but opponents
are shooting under fifty three percent against him at the rim. That's an ultra
solid number when he's contesting seven point one attempts per game, and he could
be pulled out of the paint and hold his own there He's more of an
all around player than he receives credit for. And I think if the Kings
let him walk, it'll be a mistake given that they didn't move him at
the deadline, because I you know, if someone gives him twenty million dollars
a year, Okay, I get it, would you pay figure out how
to pay Rashaun Holmes fifteen million a year? I absolutely would. The problem
with them is they have to move somebody to make that happen. I think
Grishawn Holmes is the objectively correct answer here. He's not going to be my
choice simply because there is not much I can add beyond you, who I
consider the Internet's foremost expert on all things Rishawn Holmes. So I'm gonna just
go with a personal favorite here and pick Robert Woodard, the second, who
has only appeared in eleven games during his rookie season for a grand total of
twenty nine minutes. That's after he was the fourtieth overall pick in the twenty
twenty NBA draft. For me, he's the choice simply because he hasn't gotten
the opportunity I think he deserves. No. Obviously, he hasn't shown anything
in the NBA yet to justify that. But this is a guy coming out
of Mississippi State. I genuinely thought he should be considered in the lottery.
I view him as just this really high end three nd wing kind of in
like the PJ. Tucker Robert Covington kind of mold. But there's also some
offensive upside, you know. I've seen some like flashes of Tobias Harris like
offense, just that three level scoring, that smooth ediness with the ball in
your hands, that quick rise and fire to his game. I think there's
a lot more here, and I just want the Sacramento Kings to at least
give him a chance to show it. And it just doesn't seem like we're
going to because we've already entered the portion of the year where you typically get
flyers on these guys. Maybe it's because the Kings are still trying to position
themselves as best they can for the playoff race, even though that might not
be the smartest decision, but it would be very kingsy. So I just
I want to see more from him. I think he'll get his shot next
year, and I don't know if that's me predicting that they'll kind of steer
into a rebuild just because I could see them kind of tearing it down a
little bit. But yeah, they don't have a ton of wing prospects.
There there's Harrison Barnes, and then I don't know that I would consider Harrison
Barnes a wing prospect someone who could play the three though, I know,
I know, yeah, no, there really are not many options that brings
us to the San Antonio Spurs. Who did you have? Yeah, I
know you don't typically like having rookies in this kind of conversation, but I'm
actually going to go with my second straight rookie, with Devin Vassell. Yeah,
I mean, he's he's another just premier three and D candidate. You
can already tell how advanced his defensive tools are, even you know, even
when he's surrounded by what isn't the greatest defensive team, like he's immensely involved
on that end. His ability to poke his hands into passing lanes to disrupt
careless ball handlers, like you see these advanced traits from him which typically should
not be present in a rookie who won't turn twenty one until late August.
And then you pair that with the three point shooting that we pretty much knew
would translate, but it's always affirming to actually see it translate. So you
know, he's only taking two point three three's per game, but he's hitting
thirty nine point one percent of them. Pair those two skills together and you
get a rookie who should be talked about a lot more, particularly in a
not great rookie class. You never I mean, he's not a win Rookie
of the Year. He's only averaging five points per game, but you just
don't even hear his name come up in conversations about the best rookies in this
class, and it should. Yeah, he's going to be very good for
them. There's they are almost they have two. I'm surprised he hasn't played
more this year. There's almost too many. Maybe with the Derek White injury
now that will change. There's almost too many perimeter options on San Antonio.
Now, maybe they get rid of one of them and the rows in this
season and then gays aswell free agent. But between Lonnie Walker, who I
can't figure that dude out. Do you have a feel for whatna Walker is
gonna be? I've got nothing. I miss his head. It depends on
the night tremendously. But yeah, between Kelton Johnson probably the most reckless driver
in the league still and I absolutely love it. And then even having just
Jonathan Murray in there, who can play is not just a point guard.
Looking at his size, I'm interesting more from Devin of as sound. I
hope we get it next year. I think he Do you think he has
more ball skills to offer. He's gonna be really good defensively. He's also
gonna keep the ball moving and he's gonna shoot well from threes. Do you
think he has any more to plumb on offense with the ball in his sad
I don't. I don't. I think that he's going to top out as
a guy who's averaging like ten to twelve points per game, but it is
still like one of the most valuable players in the NBA in that scoring tier.
Yeah, I don't think he's gonna be able to get to a mccale
bridge's level of handling the ball or even a Sadik Bay at this point.
I'd be curious to see what happens if they tried to de plumb that a
little bit, a little bit more. I have Yacca Peartle, who quietly
by the way his free throw shooting this has not been Que's been terrible this
year. He's an eighty five point seven percent from the foul line over his
last ten games. So shout out to Yacca Peurtle who before that was a
disaster from the foul line. What was he before his last ten games forty
point four percent, So he has more than doubled his accuracy from the foul
line over his last ten games. Solid rim protector can move fairly well,
really good screener. If he watched when the Spurs play, like there might
be possessions where he sets like three four different screens on the same and play.
He is third. This is something I didn't know leading into this podcast
until I started looking at stuff for this podcast. Excuse me. He is
third and assists screen assist points per game. That's really impressive. I'm not
trying to second. What's that who's first and second? And in that category?
I should have left that page up. Oh I have it up still.
Sabonis is first, a second and Rudy Gobert's first. He is fourth
when you look at just as cists, but he sets screens really far out.
Eighton's in front of him. If you look at just screen screen assists
buy a hair, he's also he's going to crash the offensive glass for you.
I also think that he's a better roll man than we've seen this season.
Some of the lineups I think he's played in have not been conducive to
him scoring a ton of points out of the pick and roll of teams are
probably also fouling him more because they know that these sucks at the free throw
line too. But with the type of spacing the Spurs can surround him with,
or with the lineup structure they have can surround him with. I think
he's someone who, in addition to being able to hit you off as a
glass for you, he's still going to be a valuable role man, but
just his screening is going to open up a lot of opportunities for his teammates.
And they look I don't want to celebrate them, for I would argue,
you know, they ended up underpaying him and restricted free agency, but
that ends up being like a really good value contract now where it was effectively
it was a three years and twenty seven million I think is what they gave
him. That's I think that's fantastic value for him for them. For that,
I would also be remiss not to just give a quick shout to Damarta
Rozen. I didn't ultimately choose him for the Spurs, but like, this
is a guy despite receiving All Star consideration, I think that he is.
Also he's been too much of a lightning rod in debates between analytics and the
eye test to kind of escape that reputation. But he's been free to play
his brand of basketball and it has been marvelous. Like this dude is just
such a gifted score. I've really enjoyed watching him, even if he's not
contributing to a winning team this year. He's just he's a joy to watch
when he's free to be himself off and not pigeonholed into a role that isn't
perfectly ideal for him. Yeah, that's a good that's a great shout out
for him. I not to ring his free agency. I think he can
help a team if he leaves the Spurs. You don't want to tailor your
offense around him, but he's everyone makes a big deal on the shot profile.
He's a fantastic playmaker, and still he's a bucket. He's just a
bucket. He's a better playmaker now that he's ever been too. That gives
me more confidence now that, like, you know, we've we've all heard
about the consistently negative net rating swings and whatnot for him, but like he
can make a team better in the right role, especially now that he's developed
those skills because he's been able to right. And the other thing is like
a lot of those splits. I mean, he had some of those problems
in Toronto, but a lot of the starting lineups he's been in, if
not fair so well while he's been in in San Antonio. Anyway, we
are on too. Can I go perfect fifteen for fifteen the Toronto rapp I
think, so, oh, you're so close to the Atlanta office. Utah
I had, Yeah, it's me that's starting correct. Yeah, I had
utah here. I had Joe Ingles here. Excuse me, I had utah
here. I want every want to know that that wasn't so much of a
mistake. Joe Ingles I think has to be a pick. And we were
talking about this before we jumped on the pod. The reason why, or
one of the primary reasons why, is he's a six Man of the Year
candidate, but he's not being identified as the winner on his own team.
That's been mostly or that's been almost entirely. I think he's starting to get
a little bit more. There's been more rumblings for him, but I don't,
you know, it's still Jordan Clarkson and so many people's eyes, and
he sort of faded as the season has gone has gone on, and Joe
Ingles has just not. He is having and I don't say this with I
perbly one of the most efficient seasons in NBA history. He has this year.
Specifically, he leaves the league in true shooting percentage among players who qualified
for the field goal percentage leaderboard, seventy point two true shooting. And this
is someone who is taking three hundred three and thirty nine three so far as
we record this, so he's not living at the basket. Forty seven point
eight percent from three fifty nine point two percent from two. He's just ahead
of Rudy Gobert, who ranks two in this. Normally you see Biggs,
you know, maybe because you're adding free throw shooting in there, it gets
a little iffy, but like this is something that you would expect to see
more Bigs. Just look at the other top you know ten, Rashaun Holmes
is fifth, Jared Allen is third, Rudy Gobert's second, Mantras Harrold's ninth,
because Zion is tenth. Those are the names that you would expect to
see. Joe Angles is a number freaking one. Here's the other thing that's
crazy. There are on There's one player in NBA history who's ever averaged more
than fifteen points and five assists per thirty six minutes while matching or exceeding Joe
Angles is affective field goal percentage, which, for anyone who doesn't know that's
going to be a measure of both is two point and three point shooting.
Who is it? I have no clue whatsoever. It's probably gonna be something
like Michael Jordan, Will Chamberlain, all right, that is, And look
like the Moses Brown is obviously better than Joe Ingles to the transitive property now
right. And look, Moses Brown is going to eventually make this list.
I think we can all agree, and he'll probably do it while averaging almost
as many points as Will did in sixty six sixty seven. So he's soon
to be here. But I look, and look these are I didn't so
much cherry picked them fifteen and five for thirty six. Really, isn't that
ridiculous of a benchmark? The efficiency it's different than like point eight steals and
point eight blocks. Yeah, I would say so maybe maybe a little bit.
Yeah, that wasn't so much cherry picked as like you actually designed it.
You couldn't even select it. You had to invent that. That is
still just he's having one of the most efficient seasons in every A history for
a perimeter player. That's and that's you could say that that shouldn't be controversial.
He would be my pick for six Man of the Year right now mine
too. Do you think do you think he gets it? No, definitely
not. Jordan Clarkson alone is going to siphon off too many boats. That's
cannibalizing it from each other. We kind of get beyond. The people laughed
at me when he picked. I thought that he is young. This was
earlier in the season. I want to make it clear. It was just
when Jordan Clarkson had kind of like he was he'd climaxed and now was his
falling action, and so I picked that he's young because of how good he
had been. He hadn't started too many games at that point, and people
were just laughing. I think I'm not trying to be analytics nerd here.
We need to get away from the guy who scores the most points off the
bench is your sixth man of the year. If you want that to be
an award, let's create a separate award for it. I know this is
already a longer podcast and we're weighed beyond what we originally planned, but I
have to like go off on this little tangent before I give my pick for
Utah. Do you think it's valid to have two players from the same team
on your sixth man of the Year ballot? Or like, by definition,
does one of those have to be a seventh ban and shouldn't be eligible?
I thought out that last year during the lou Will Montras Harold thing, and
even the year before I think it was lou Will Montras Harold again. Yeah,
I don't, I honestly don't know. I think rotations are fluid and
off to where maybe not in this case, like coaches could change it up
a little bit here, it's a little bit iffy because they're not I mean,
they play such different roles. It was there was more of a line
between Trez and Lou Williams because like they for sure they needed each other,
whereas Joe Ingles and Clarkson can operate more so independently of one another. Do
you go like, who do you default towards? Is it the person?
Do you have to go back and look who came off the bench first?
Like? Is that who we're considering the sixth man? Do you have to
look at is it who's averaging more minutes? Which would be Joe Ingles by
a minute and a half. Here, I don't know how you would delineate,
aside from staying to the truest sense of sixth man in the year and
saying it's the first guy who comes off the bench. Maybe sometimes that happens
in tandem, which makes it more difficult. I honestly don't know where do
you stand on that. I think I just view it as like the official
name of the award given to the best bench player. Personally, I don't
think I would have any qualms about turning in a ballot with two guys from
the same team if I thought they were two of the three best bench players
in the NBA. I'm with you, I have no I personally have no
qualms about it. I could see given how the award is titled, as
I was talking to myself through it, that's what if you wanted to differentiate
it. What is the differentiator? Do you just have to stay true to
the spirit of the title. It's the first guy who comes off the bench,
yes, but like at the same time, like it's also called the
MVP and not the MVP ot VT. Well here's the other thing too,
is I assume you know what that stands for. I actually do not most
valuable player on the best team. I didn't hear you. I heard OT
and I OTV. Yeah I got that. And look, by the way,
if it was for the six getting back to the sixth man of the
year specifically, how would you do it or how do you do it?
Now? How do you reconcile that Joe Ingles is he's played more than half
of his games coming off the bench, but he started twenty of his fifty
seven games. Does that change the calculus here at all? I think the
official designation is like more than half of your games have to be from off
the bench, or maybe it's more than half of the team's games or something.
But personally, I think that once you start starting that often that it
kind of defeats the purpose I would rather go to. It's it's hard because
you can't like set this true, clear cut universal delineation, like you can't
be like fifteen games and you're not eligible anymore because circumstances changed, So I
don't know. It almost feels like it has to be a nebulous definition.
He's look, he's starting now though, because of the Donovan Mitchell injury,
and I'm wondering if that because he was sub twenty I think he started the
last seven games or whatever is I have to go back and check. I
think if that gets to like twenty three twenty five, he's probably out.
That's just that's like a third yeah, yeah, yeah. But after derailing
us, I'm gonna I'm gonna reveal that my pick for the Utah Jazz,
though I gave a strong consideration to Joe Ingles, is Rudy Gobert. Now
I've I've picked a couple stars, and I think this is another one for
the same reason, because there's so much focus on what he doesn't do well
that there's hesitance to give him the true credit he deserves. And beyond that,
he's also one of those players who doesn't score a lot, which is
typically the greatest currency and NVA conversations. So you pair those two things together
and it's just a perfect recipe for an underrated star. He is just so
incredibly impactful. His defense certainly isn't underrated. We know that he's in the
defensive Player of the Year conversation each and every season, But his offense is
even if he's only averaging fourteen fourteen point four points, even if he's only
averaging one point three assists, the things that he does on the offensive on
the offensive end generate so much gravity that it makes everything easier for his teammates.
You know, we typically talk about gravity as three point shooters who are
able to warp the defense in their direction. But you have to pay attention
to go bar around the basket. You know, he's one of the rare
big men you can't just cheat off of too much or you know, overplay
away from him because you know that NBA teams aren't trying to generate post shots.
He'll create offensive rebounds. He typically plays up at the top of the
key, not as a shooter, but because he's such an effective role man.
And he's such a great screen setter, you know, you said earlier
he is number one in screen assists. And even if that's become a running
joke on Twitter because some Utah Jazz fans and analysts like to talk about that
particular stat a little bit too much, it is still a valuable thing to
be good at. Setting screens is a huge part of NBA offenses in today's
NBA. You know, if you're that good at it, which he is,
it matters. There are so many little things that he does. And
even beyond that, like the Jazz, who have been the best team in
the NBA for a lot of this season, are eighteen point five points per
a hundred possessions better when he's on the floor than when he's not. And
as we just talked about, they have two six Men of the Year candidates.
It's not like this is some shitty bench that you know, it comes
on the floor and hemorrhages the leads that he's helped build. Like he is
making the team that much better. So if you want to talk about how
the screen assists get talked about too much, how he doesn't have any shooting
range, how he relies on others to set him up. How he once
got played off the court in a playoff game or in a playoff series,
Like sure, just appreciate the guy too. And also the other thing that
I think you can look at is more important than a screening, I think
is the role gravity he has, which I think there are different definitions of
it. I'm just viewing it as if you're going to set a screen,
like how dangerous are you that it's going to convince a team to help off
what might be a really good shooter because they're so afraid of what you could
potentially do at the rim. And he's also gotten better at passing in those
situations, their affective field goal percentage jumps by three point five percentage points with
him on the court. That is given how accurate the Jazz have been this
season, and that's a swing that rates in the seventy second percent tile I
believe of fellow centers. That's you know, and it is also, by
the way, the biggest mark. It's a ninety second percent til. It's
the biggest swing on the Jazz, and I don't think that's an accident.
And so I would just argue that the gravity he has as a rollman.
If you want to troll Jazz fans for sighting screenusis they're important. I totally
get it. I think his role gravity might be the most It's clearly the
most important homeent to me of his offensive game. It's not even the finishing,
it's just the idea of what he can do as the roleman. It
forces defenses to overreact. Yeah, I'm one percent in agreement. And I
will just say once again that having watched a lot of basketball, like I
don't think I've ever seen anyone who's better at bating offensive players into thinking they've
beaten him off the dribble and then recovering to either contest or block the shot.
He is just so unbelievably adept at at hedging and showing even more because
he knows that he can recover. It's just such an immensely valuable skill.
Is he the only player in the league where if you have him on your
team, you're probably guaranteed a top ten defense? I might put Jana in
that category just because he can do so many things that it covers up for
so many weaknesses. Would you put in bid in there? I think that
you still need good perimeter defenders with imbid, You're probably right. My bigger
concern Wilde does he play enough games or your off minutes with him? And
that's the other than dramatic that you're not able to. Yeah, this was
a long one, thanks for whoever. Not really the longest one by our
standards, still under eighty minutes, though, Congratulations to us, Thank you
all for listening. As always, though, please please, pretty please remember
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FROMO zero nine. That's f R O M A L zero nine. Until
next time, we collectively the two of us leave you with a shout out
to the one, the only someone who's going to be better than Will Chamberlaine Moses Brown