1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:06,919 Snapped is intended for mature audiences. This episode contains mentions of homophobia. Please 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:12,000 use discretion when listening. Opinions expressed by guests on the show are their own 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:19,399 and do not necessarily represent the views of this podcast. To access episode transcripts, 4 00:00:19,519 --> 00:00:24,399 consider joining our Patreon at just two dollars a month. These transcripts have 5 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:28,079 a key at the top with the names and schools of every speaker, so 6 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:33,079 I highly recommend if you want the ultimate follow along experience, check them out 7 00:00:33,119 --> 00:00:39,479 on Patreon dot com slash snapped. For additional details about Snapped, visit Snaps 8 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:44,439 the podcast dot com, and don't forget to follow us on social media at 9 00:00:44,759 --> 00:00:49,719 Snaps the podcast. Thank you so much for listening. Let's start the ship 10 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:55,039 show. When I was eighteen years old, I became an Alpha FI sister 11 00:00:55,280 --> 00:01:00,960 at the University of Maryland. Three years after disappiliating from the Chat and three 12 00:01:00,039 --> 00:01:06,879 days before graduating college, I released the first season of Snapped, a tell 13 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,200 all podcast series about my sorority experience. Since the release of season one, 14 00:01:11,519 --> 00:01:18,159 I've interviewed forty current or former Greek Life members, including some Greek Life adjacent 15 00:01:18,239 --> 00:01:25,400 individuals. These are their stories. I'm Lucy Taylor, your host and favorite 16 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:34,400 excommunicated sister. This is Snapped Snapped. The first half of this episode will 17 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,079 be by interview with James. James has been sprinkled in throughout the season, 18 00:01:38,239 --> 00:01:45,200 but you've never fully met him. It was the first social we had had 19 00:01:45,359 --> 00:01:52,560 with the objectively bottom sorority at our school and you should have seen the uproar 20 00:01:52,959 --> 00:01:56,959 Blake, I remember the president sending me down and they're like, you have 21 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:01,760 to do our favorite theme because if you don't, brothers won't come. What's 22 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:13,919 the favorite theme, Margaritaville. Yep, it's James, the fraternity social chair 23 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,639 from the University of Maryland. In the second half of this episode, we'll 24 00:02:17,680 --> 00:02:23,280 be hearing from speakers that we've met throughout the season and find out if slash 25 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:35,319 how they disaffiliated. Please enjoy the Snapped season three finale Snapped James dms me 26 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,560 on Instagram. Right after the Snap season one finale, a few months later, 27 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:46,280 we did a socially distanced in person interview in a college park backyard. 28 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,159 It was one of my first interviews of the season. November twenty twenty, 29 00:02:51,199 --> 00:02:55,879 Peak COVID. This was the first semester of James's senior year, and he 30 00:02:55,960 --> 00:03:00,759 was still in the fraternity at the time of this interview. I'm in Greek 31 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:05,159 life. I'm still in Greek Life. I've always wanted to disaffiliate, and 32 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,759 I've always been too afraid to disaffiliate just because of like how I viewed fraternities 33 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,560 and why I joined a fraternity, And now I felt like it was too 34 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:20,680 late, and I like still kind of wish I disaffiliated, but like just 35 00:03:20,719 --> 00:03:23,319 because of like I'm a senior, like all the social pressures, like and 36 00:03:23,599 --> 00:03:28,439 especially during COVID, like making new friends during COVID. Like, but I'm 37 00:03:28,439 --> 00:03:32,680 also like living in one of the fraternity housing, which would also just make 38 00:03:32,719 --> 00:03:37,520 that so much harder, like trying to find a new place trying to say 39 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:39,879 you're living in fraternity housing. Yeah, well because I'm an out of state 40 00:03:40,039 --> 00:03:45,919 student. Yeah that is the kick. Because I joined Greek life for housing 41 00:03:46,159 --> 00:03:49,639 and I am an out of state student. I don't have high school friends. 42 00:03:49,639 --> 00:03:53,439 I can just bank on, like I came here nobody, Like my 43 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:57,400 parents, like they definitely have some conservative ideologies and they would never let me 44 00:03:57,439 --> 00:04:01,639 live with a woman. So like it's just been like easier because like it's 45 00:04:01,639 --> 00:04:04,280 always been hard for me to make guy friends. So I was like, 46 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,639 oh, i'll join a fraternity, I'll have guy roommates, I'll have guy 47 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:12,840 friends. It'll be easy into community, instant community. For the freshman listeners 48 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:15,600 out there, no one tells you how hard first semester freshman year is socially, 49 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,959 and like, I had no friends, like, absolutely zero friends. 50 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:25,079 I rushed by myself and I show up to meet the Greek's drunk. I 51 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,439 remember going table to table introducing myself to every guy using my straight voice, 52 00:04:30,959 --> 00:04:34,560 Like I was like, they can't know, Like I don't want my sexual 53 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,319 orientation to be a defining factor on whether or not I get a bid, 54 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,439 so like, obviously, as most gay guys do, I talk like this 55 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:46,279 around the straight guys just because I don't trust them. And then it's interesting, 56 00:04:46,439 --> 00:04:50,240 Actually, there was a person in one of the chapters that I like 57 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:56,160 almost joined that was telling me that my chapter that I did join is homophobic 58 00:04:56,879 --> 00:05:00,399 and like has a history of homophobia. And I was like, okay, 59 00:05:00,439 --> 00:05:02,720 cool, Like I put it at the back of my mind. And then 60 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:08,000 when I came out to them and they'd still accepted me as like and gave 61 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:11,519 me a bit, I was like, oh, I'm different, I'm cooler, 62 00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:14,879 I'm better, I fit in better with the Straits. And then I 63 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,079 ended up joining them because they had a house and I was like, awesome 64 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,480 place to live. They had a really cool party house, and I was 65 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:25,079 like, as a freshman, you're like, oh my god, like these 66 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:30,040 parties are gonna be like this all four years, Like it's gonna be so 67 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,000 less. So the first thing that we did after we got initiated, we 68 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:41,839 were sitting in my pledge brother's room. We had all been under the influence, 69 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:46,399 and we went into our fraternities like different groups, and we scrolled all 70 00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:53,439 the way up to the time we had started rushing, read through everything until 71 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,959 the time we had joined, just because we wanted to see what they were 72 00:05:56,959 --> 00:06:00,759 saying about us. And so the first thing I saw was a Facebook post 73 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:05,680 that was like, Hey, this kid is gay. If you say anything 74 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:12,120 that goes against his lifestyle, you're gonna be kicked out, no questions asked. 75 00:06:12,319 --> 00:06:15,399 This is your one and only warning. And I was like, Okay, 76 00:06:15,879 --> 00:06:19,399 wordings that great, but thought is there? Thought is there? But 77 00:06:19,439 --> 00:06:25,000 like LOKI and microaggression, Yeah, lifestyle choice. I don't know how I 78 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:30,399 feel about that one, right, But I was appreciative that even an effort 79 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,240 was made. So I saw that, and then I saw like and then 80 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,680 everyone was like, oh my gosh, like I love this kid, like 81 00:06:34,759 --> 00:06:39,079 he's so cool, like the girls all love him, like he needs to 82 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:41,680 be social chair. And I was like, yeah, like I'm gonna be 83 00:06:41,759 --> 00:06:45,959 social chair, like they love me, like I'm gonna change shit, like 84 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,319 I'm gonna be the best social chair ever like blah blah blah, you know, 85 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,959 like a freshman. And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna be 86 00:06:53,959 --> 00:06:56,800 different. I'm gonna be the gay guy that becomes a frat star, like 87 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:01,199 world better watch out, Like I'm gonna take Greek like by storm, like 88 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,279 they're not ready for me. And then my big had told me that there 89 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:11,879 was a member of my fraternity that voted no on me because I'm gay. 90 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,720 And he was telling me that the kid that voted no was saying, yeah, 91 00:07:16,879 --> 00:07:21,199 like I've never met a gay guy before. I don't know of how 92 00:07:21,199 --> 00:07:27,279 comfortable I feel being in a fraternity with a gay guy. I don't think 93 00:07:27,279 --> 00:07:29,560 we should give him a bid. I don't know how he's going to react 94 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:34,000 to our chapter's culture. And like I ended up talking it out with that 95 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:40,480 kid and like having a really nice and meaningful conversation about like our differences, 96 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,720 I guess at the end of the day. And I remember sitting there afterwards 97 00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,920 being like, Okay, I had this conversation. I can do it again. 98 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:51,040 I'm more than happy to do it again. Like this is gonna be 99 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:58,120 fine. I'm gonna be fine. When I first joined, I didn't want 100 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,920 to be treated any differently. I was like, I am just like you. 101 00:08:03,279 --> 00:08:07,560 I just hook up with guys. I don't like feel like you need 102 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:13,360 to walk on eggshells around me, don't like feel like you have to change 103 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,240 your vocabulary around me, Like I'm not gonna flirt with you, like, 104 00:08:18,439 --> 00:08:24,000 just treat me the same. And I definitely like it had so much internalized 105 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,240 homophobia of like I need to be okay with being called the like the gay 106 00:08:28,279 --> 00:08:31,759 aff for it. I need to be okay with guys being like that's so 107 00:08:31,879 --> 00:08:39,159 gay and calling each other queer or saying that's aids and things like that just 108 00:08:39,279 --> 00:08:41,559 like around me all the time. And I was like, well, I 109 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,240 don't want to be treated any differently, and so I'm just gonna put up 110 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:52,399 a thing. Then we started moving in to like election season, so like 111 00:08:52,919 --> 00:08:58,519 fraternity elections. I don't know why, but for everyone involved, it's the 112 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,720 biggest deal. So do you guys vote, yeah, oh oh, we 113 00:09:01,919 --> 00:09:07,279 vote? Where do you vote on our chapterhouse? What do you get? 114 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:11,279 Each get a paper? No? We like they make a special group chat 115 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:20,720 for everyone in the room, and each position like has their own Google form 116 00:09:20,759 --> 00:09:24,440 and it's like a multiple choice, like who do you vote for for president? 117 00:09:24,639 --> 00:09:31,279 And it's like John or Kevin? And like I ran for social chair. 118 00:09:31,399 --> 00:09:35,960 It was the only position I ran for. Thankfully I won her not 119 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:39,159 so thankfully, but I won, And in that moment, I was so 120 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:45,480 happy. Frat star on the Rise, on the Rise on the Rise gave 121 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:52,440 man on executive board of a quote unquote homophobic fraternity. I could not stopped. 122 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:58,799 No, you could not tell me that anything was gonna go wrong, 123 00:10:00,399 --> 00:10:09,960 And then my term started. How social chair works is that you're in charge 124 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:16,000 of making the entire calendar. So like any social you have so twice a 125 00:10:16,039 --> 00:10:18,840 week, sometimes three times a week. I would have to set up everything. 126 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,080 So if we had a bar tab, I had to call the bar, 127 00:10:20,279 --> 00:10:24,559 give them the money, hand out the wristbands, check id's and then 128 00:10:24,799 --> 00:10:26,200 I always had to go because I was social Chairs, so I'd always have 129 00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:30,279 to get there fifteen minutes early and leave a half hour after it ended. 130 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:35,679 I would coordinate with the fraternity treasurer and get cash for the party. I 131 00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:37,360 would go to the same liquor store. I'm not gonna say which one, 132 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,320 because I wasn't twenty one. When I was social chair, I'd borrow someone's 133 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,720 car, drive to the liquor store, buy the alcohol, come back, 134 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,240 set up the whole party, leave, get ready. Text every single social 135 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:52,440 chair being like, we have a post game tonight. Here's the address. 136 00:10:52,519 --> 00:10:54,960 Tell your chapter. Can't wait to see you guys there. I'm like, 137 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,360 God, it's gonna be so fun. And then like I would text the 138 00:10:56,399 --> 00:10:58,879 sorority we were socialing with, like, oh my god, tonight it's going 139 00:10:58,919 --> 00:11:03,440 to be a blast, like I can't wait. There's a clear double standard 140 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:09,600 for how straight men and gay men are treated in Greek life. A good 141 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:16,320 easy example of this is talking about hookups. So I'm expected to sit and 142 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:20,120 listen help set my guy friends up, and they get mad at me when 143 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,399 I don't. Like when I was social chair, people will get mad at 144 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,960 me because they were like, oh, Jake's not setting us up with his 145 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:33,639 girlfriends. Someone told me to my face, I fucking hate you because you 146 00:11:33,759 --> 00:11:37,759 take all the hot girls for yourself. How do I react to that? 147 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,519 I'm like, I'm sorry that my friends find you creepy. Like so they 148 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,039 expect me to one set them up to hear about their hookups. But the 149 00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:52,840 second I talk about anyone I've hooked up with, like they leave the room. 150 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,559 Oh nope, I don't want to hear it. Like that's gross, 151 00:11:56,799 --> 00:12:03,200 it's been uncomfortable. There's definitely also an element of tokenism when it's beneficial. 152 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:05,720 So what do I mean by that we want a gay guy a social chair? 153 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:11,759 Like a lot of other gay guys in fraternities that I know have been 154 00:12:11,799 --> 00:12:15,519 social chair at one point. Obviously, I'm not saying that all IFC social 155 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:20,720 chairs are gay, and I'm not saying that all gay guys in fraternities want 156 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,960 to be social chair. It's just sometimes that's how the cookie crumbles because of 157 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:31,159 like how can we use this guy for our benefit? That's a lot of 158 00:12:31,159 --> 00:12:33,399 the fraternity culture anyway. Though. It's like how like if we're gonna bid 159 00:12:33,399 --> 00:12:37,919 this kid, like what is he gonna give to us? My job as 160 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,559 the token gay is to be fun, be everyone's best friend. They like 161 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:48,080 when I play up the gay so the girls, because that means the girls 162 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,919 want to come back. They have this chapter has the fun gay guy and 163 00:12:50,960 --> 00:12:54,639 so at post games like everyone's always because like everyone's kind of done by that 164 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:58,000 point. They're like, Okay, we've been in a hot, sweaty basement 165 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,159 for two hours. Like I want to be in a hot, spiddy basement 166 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,440 anymore. But so many guys are like, get in the basement, go 167 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:11,519 dance, Like our group chat will blow up, like there's so many girls 168 00:13:11,519 --> 00:13:13,240 here and there is see no brothers, Like how could you? Like we 169 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,240 are just like there's like six of us standing with our dicks in our hands. 170 00:13:16,320 --> 00:13:22,279 Go downstairs like and then like I remember there was a time like we're 171 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,519 like my guy friends were like, oh why do we even bid? He 172 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:30,039 has ugly friends? Like his friends are ugly, and so my semester is 173 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,639 social chair. Every week there was a different complaint, Oh why did we 174 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,840 have this bottom tier sorority? How could you? Like? How could I 175 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,799 And I'm like I'm like, have you looked in the mirror. We're not 176 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:48,039 taught here, Like if you expect the prettiest sorority on campus to talk to 177 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:52,799 us. You can't have this double standard of Oh, I expect the prettiest 178 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,879 girls to talk to me, but I'm not going to talk to the bottom 179 00:13:56,919 --> 00:14:01,879 tier girls. Let's recap. The frat wanted James as the social chair because 180 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:07,559 all the girls loved him. Then they were mad that he was hogging all 181 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:13,200 the hot girls to himself. Then they were mad because all of his girlfriends 182 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:18,440 were ugly, but then they were mad that he wasn't setting them up with 183 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:24,039 any of his ugly friends. I'm just not really sure how James was supposed 184 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:28,559 to win here. James is about to tell an important story, but first 185 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,840 let's provide some context. There was this one sorority that we had socialed with 186 00:14:35,159 --> 00:14:39,840 pretty frequently the year before, and for whatever reason, now we don't like 187 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:46,279 them. The sorority James's chapter no longer liked was considered a bottom tier chapter. 188 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:54,080 However, they were scheduled to have a social with James's frat. In 189 00:14:54,240 --> 00:15:00,279 classic fashion, the fraternity chapter members through a temper tantrum, and desperate to 190 00:15:00,279 --> 00:15:05,440 meet his chapter's demands, James canceled the social on the day that the social 191 00:15:05,519 --> 00:15:09,480 was supposed to take place. James went to a sorority philanthropy event. You 192 00:15:09,519 --> 00:15:16,240 know, one of those food ones like mac and fees, zader tats kappadillas, 193 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:20,840 you know the one. I remember this vividly. I was at a 194 00:15:20,879 --> 00:15:26,360 sorority philanthropy event and most of their philanthropy, Like most sorority philanthropy events that 195 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:30,000 I go to, I like the food ones, Like I always pregame those 196 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,559 really hard, because it's fun to just like go like when you're like really 197 00:15:33,639 --> 00:15:37,960 under the influence and just chow and so like I'm feeling it. I'm definitely 198 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,039 not sober, but I'm not like incoherent. And I get a text from 199 00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:48,240 a different sorority social chair, Okay, do you guys want to have something 200 00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:52,679 tonight? And I was like, oh, like, we just canceled on 201 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:58,240 a different sorority. Let me double check. And so I put in the 202 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,200 executive board chat like the social chair blah blah blah, reach out to me 203 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,159 about a social what do you guys think? And then someone said, oh, 204 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,840 ask the members of the sale house. And then I thought about it 205 00:16:07,879 --> 00:16:11,000 and I didn't ask the members of the sali house. I then was like, 206 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,639 wait a minute, this is a bad idea. I'm gonna tell them, 207 00:16:12,679 --> 00:16:15,759 no, we canceled on a sorority. It's gonna be a bad look 208 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,320 because if we canceled on a sorority and then have a social with another one, 209 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:23,080 it's gonna look like we canceled for someone else, and it's just gonna 210 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:26,720 be drama. And these girls that we canceled on, like they're still my 211 00:16:26,799 --> 00:16:32,320 friends, and I have to deal with the social repercussions of that. And 212 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,840 I remember getting texts. I got text like, you run social chair like 213 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:41,519 a Nazi regime. You're so selfish. Pretty girls actually want to talk to 214 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,039 us, and you say no so you can social with your ugly friends. 215 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:52,519 I was told I was the worst social chair of all time. I was 216 00:16:53,080 --> 00:16:59,799 said that like they were in the wrong for having a gay social chair. 217 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:02,559 They knew that a gay social chair would be like that, they wouldn't have 218 00:17:02,639 --> 00:17:07,599 done it. And I was told to kill myself by like a ton of 219 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,039 different people. The group chat was freaking out. They were like, why 220 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:18,880 would you like not schedule social with the higher tier sorority after we canceled on 221 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,640 one with the lord tier, Like you're stupid, kill yourself, or like 222 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:29,960 go disaffiliate but also I was getting like all of these messages while under the 223 00:17:30,039 --> 00:17:36,400 influence at a sorority philanthropy event. So I'm like with my friends, like 224 00:17:36,799 --> 00:17:44,319 crying, freaking out, like eating my I'm also by myself, like I'm 225 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,559 like buy myself in the sense that I'm the only person from my organization there 226 00:17:48,599 --> 00:17:52,480 and I went to the event by myself. Like obviously I had friends working 227 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:56,759 the event, but they're working the event. They're not there to like key 228 00:17:56,839 --> 00:18:00,640 key and hang out with me, like they're there to you know, you 229 00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,359 get some already into their philanthropy. But yeah, So I'm getting all these 230 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:10,559 texts while I'm there, and I'm just like crying, and I'm just like 231 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:12,599 I like turn to my friend. I'm like I have to go home, 232 00:18:14,279 --> 00:18:17,240 Like I just have to go home, Like I'm sorry, like I can't 233 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,240 be here anymore, Like I really like thank you for hanging out with me. 234 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,680 Sorry I'm not full and sorry, I'm like freaking out, Like so 235 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,799 I went home, Like I just went back to my house. Uh, 236 00:18:30,039 --> 00:18:36,000 definitely cried, and I actually started packing up. I was just gonna leave. 237 00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:38,839 I wasn't gonna tell anyone where I was going. I had like texted 238 00:18:38,839 --> 00:18:45,440 a few friends. I was like, hey, this is happening. I'm 239 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:51,279 probably gonna disaffiliate. Can I just like spend a few days on your couch 240 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,599 until I find a place to live, like because I can't live in this 241 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,599 house. And then one of my closer friends in the fraternity actually saw me 242 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,880 packing everything up, and like him and the vice president who I was pretty 243 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:10,680 close with, they like sat me down in my room like I cried it 244 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,200 out. They were like, don't disaffiliate, like we love you, Like 245 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:19,960 it's not that deep, It's gonna be okay, don't disaffiliate. And I 246 00:19:21,079 --> 00:19:23,440 was like and like for me, like, I've never been someone to quit, 247 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:30,960 like no matter how much like it takes on me, Like I hate 248 00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:37,720 being like a quitter. And for whatever reason, in that moment, if 249 00:19:37,079 --> 00:19:42,000 I felt that if I disaffiliated, I was quitting. And I had gone 250 00:19:42,039 --> 00:19:47,200 through pledging, I had been social chair, I had been on exactly like 251 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,319 I was on so many different leadership positions. I was like, if I 252 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:55,599 disaffiliate, now I'm quitting. Like, because they always say like Greek life 253 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,119 is what you put into it. They always tell you that like Greek life 254 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:00,599 is if you put in a lot, you'll get a lot out of it, 255 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:10,680 and I put in a ton financially, emotionally, physically, Like if 256 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:12,519 I disaffiliate right now, I'm quitting. Like, what message does that sign? 257 00:20:15,079 --> 00:20:26,039 Snapped? This episode is presented by Olive and June. When I'm anxious, 258 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,359 I pick my nails, So you can imagine that when I was disaffiliating, 259 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,799 I had no nails left to pick. A lot of my problems stopped 260 00:20:33,799 --> 00:20:37,640 once I left Sorority world, but I still had this nail problem to deal 261 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,920 with. Enter Olive and June. As y'all know by now, Olive and 262 00:20:42,039 --> 00:20:48,759 June has created nail systems that give you everything you need for salon quality nails 263 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,839 at home. Personally, I would go to the salon just so they could 264 00:20:52,839 --> 00:20:56,880 file away my dead skin and get my feet all nice and soft. But 265 00:20:56,000 --> 00:21:00,880 now I'm never going to go to the salon again because I have my own 266 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:07,000 foot file that leaves my skin smoother than Chad and Brad's pickup lines. The 267 00:21:07,039 --> 00:21:10,759 foot file comes from the Olive and June petty system as well as the postse, 268 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,039 which is the carrying case that doubles as a foot stand. So now 269 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,240 when I need to fidget out my anxious energy, I kick my foot up 270 00:21:19,279 --> 00:21:26,240 on the postse and instead of wrecking my nails, I protect my nails and 271 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:30,000 give myself the full salon treatment. And I'm really not exaggerating, like I've 272 00:21:30,039 --> 00:21:36,039 got cuticle remover, foot serum, a buffer cuticle pusher. The other day, 273 00:21:36,079 --> 00:21:38,240 my friend asked me if I've a nail file. I'm like, honey, 274 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,920 I've got a whole nail salon. So snappers, I'll tell you one 275 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:49,440 last time to go to Olive and June dot com slash snapped for twenty percent 276 00:21:49,559 --> 00:21:56,319 off your first press on Manny Petty or complete nail system that's O L I 277 00:21:56,519 --> 00:22:04,000 v E A N D j U n E dot com slash sna ppet for 278 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:30,160 twenty percent off your first nail system snapped for the rest of the semester. 279 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:34,160 I didn't unpack that one bag. It stayed packed, And like that was 280 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:40,480 a really hard and weird realization to come to that, Like, yeah, 281 00:22:40,519 --> 00:22:45,559 these people care about me, but how much like and why why are they? 282 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:52,200 Why? Is the first response don't disaffiliate. So one of my very 283 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,240 close friends of the fraternity is like very much into lifting, very like masculine 284 00:22:57,279 --> 00:23:03,559 matcha Masha dude and doesn't know a lot of gay people, doesn't have a 285 00:23:03,599 --> 00:23:07,720 lot of diversity in his friend group anyway. So we were this is so 286 00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:12,240 stupid. We are having an argument over fridge space in our house because they 287 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:15,720 wanted me to move to the bad fridge. And I was like, no, 288 00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:18,240 I've been here the longest, I pay the most rent. I'm not 289 00:23:18,319 --> 00:23:21,599 moving to the bad fridge. I want the good fridge. Like, give 290 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,680 me the good fridge. Like what? But he goes, okay, fruit 291 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:30,559 cake and I was like, what did you just call me? And he 292 00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:33,640 was like I said okay fruit cake. And I was like, dude, 293 00:23:34,759 --> 00:23:38,559 do you know that's a homophobic slur? I need to leave right now, 294 00:23:38,759 --> 00:23:42,359 Like I just need to calm down. And so I left. I come 295 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:48,559 back he's he doesn't apologize, he just goes I didn't know that was offensive, 296 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,200 Like I didn't know it was a slur. A week later, a 297 00:23:52,240 --> 00:24:00,160 different member of the fraternity in the group in our fraternity group chat goes the 298 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,559 other gay kid, not like they used his name, obviously they didn't stay 299 00:24:03,599 --> 00:24:07,480 the gay kid, but the other gay kid in the frat is he a 300 00:24:07,559 --> 00:24:11,240 fruit? And I was like, oh, I don't know about that one 301 00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:17,359 like kind of seems like homophobic that you're like asking if a gay kid is 302 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:22,160 a fruit, like just coming from like being called a fruit like back in 303 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:25,839 the day, like for being gay, because that is very much like a 304 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,759 slur and that so I said in the group chat, I'm like, yo, 305 00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:30,880 like I don't know about that one. And then people are like why, 306 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,119 and I'm like, it seems kind of I don't know, homophobic. 307 00:24:33,839 --> 00:24:37,680 And then people just kept going like, well is this person of fruit? 308 00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:41,160 Is this person of fruit? Is this person an apple or an orange? 309 00:24:41,319 --> 00:24:45,119 And then like it just we came into this whole thing and I just kept 310 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,039 going like yo, guys, stop it. And it got to a point 311 00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:52,640 where I left the fraternity group chat, just left it and like it's sad 312 00:24:52,680 --> 00:25:00,440 because like these are my friends, these are my brothers, and it's just 313 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:06,559 like wow, I really am just like okay with this and like and then 314 00:25:06,559 --> 00:25:11,319 it like it gets to me where I'm like I'm embarrassed, Like these are 315 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,279 the people that I live with, These are the people I like hang out 316 00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:18,440 with on a day to day basis, Like all of my friends are in 317 00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,079 Greek life. Like I didn't talk once I joined my chapter I stopped talking 318 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:26,799 to everybody that wasn't in Greek live. Right around the time I was told 319 00:25:26,839 --> 00:25:33,559 to kill myself. There was three separate instances where a member of a different 320 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:41,279 fraternity had and like trigger warning, I'm going to be using slurs that like 321 00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:47,480 people had called me faggot, like to my face around me. And the 322 00:25:47,519 --> 00:25:52,200 first instance, I was meeting up with my friends at the bar for happy 323 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:53,920 hour. My friends had told me they were like, oh, like they 324 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,559 were. They were with another one of their guy friends in a different fraternity 325 00:25:56,559 --> 00:25:59,839 than mine, and I was like okay, like cool, Like I'm gonna 326 00:25:59,839 --> 00:26:02,759 say to meet him, like if he's your friend, like I'm sure he'll 327 00:26:02,759 --> 00:26:07,519 be cool, like whatever. And apparently before I had gotten there, the 328 00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,400 guy got very intimidated by another guy coming. So my friends were like, 329 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:15,319 don't worry, he's gay. That's usually the common response, like even around 330 00:26:15,319 --> 00:26:17,680 boyfriends, don't worry he's gay. I'm like, okay, that's fine, 331 00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:21,480 Like I'm very used to that, like awesome. So I walk in and 332 00:26:21,519 --> 00:26:25,440 he's like, oh, is this the faggot you were talking about? That 333 00:26:25,559 --> 00:26:29,000 was like excuse me, what? And he was like oh, Like they 334 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,000 were saying that they have a gay friend that's coming then say anything. We 335 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,880 all just kind of looked at each other like what, and then we ended 336 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,559 up leaving him. So it was like we ended up like doing our own 337 00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:42,440 thing and we were just like debriefed afterwards, like what just happened. Like 338 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:47,200 a different day, I was walking to class and I was walking past the 339 00:26:47,279 --> 00:26:51,359 basketball court of a different fraternity, and I just heard like, stop being 340 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,119 such a faggot, like on the basketball court, and I'm like I'm walking 341 00:26:53,160 --> 00:27:03,079 past and I'm like okay. Two and then two days after that had happened, 342 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,519 it's Halloween night. I'm walking into the party as social chair the sorority 343 00:27:08,559 --> 00:27:11,599 we were paired with. I have a ton of friends in it, so 344 00:27:11,759 --> 00:27:17,480 I was like this is great, Like nothing can go wrong. I dressed 345 00:27:17,519 --> 00:27:21,799 up as an angel, I have angel wings, and all of a sudden, 346 00:27:22,519 --> 00:27:26,640 I hear, yo, fuck you fagot, and I like looked around 347 00:27:27,519 --> 00:27:30,599 because I'm like, he did not just say that to me. He did 348 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,960 not just say that to me. Then I heard him again and I'm like 349 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,799 I'm like trying to like I'm literally just like looking around. I'm like, 350 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:42,720 is there someone behind me? Like this is not to me? This is 351 00:27:42,759 --> 00:27:48,880 not to me, and like I'm in the other fraternity's house too, so 352 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,039 this is not my space. And I heard it a few more times, 353 00:27:52,079 --> 00:27:56,440 like fuck you, fag it, like shut up, fagot, and so 354 00:27:56,559 --> 00:28:03,160 I leave in an utter anger. I texted the IFC president, who's in 355 00:28:03,279 --> 00:28:07,599 charge of every fraternity. There is this board called the IFC Board, and 356 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:14,240 basically there's like they all have different positions and like they kind of oversee all 357 00:28:14,279 --> 00:28:17,880 of the fraternities to make sure that no one's like causing trouble. They also 358 00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,440 like get people in trouble. And so I'd reached out to the IFC president 359 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:25,880 and was like, Hey, this is who I am. This is what 360 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,880 has happened to me in the past week, the three separate instances of being 361 00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,279 called fagot or hearing fagot around me from three different tiers. I don't want 362 00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:37,799 to get anyone in trouble. That's not my goal. I don't even want 363 00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:40,400 to tell you what chapters they are because at the end of the day, 364 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,559 it frankly doesn't matter. It could have been any chapter. But I want 365 00:28:45,559 --> 00:28:51,079 to say something because this is ridiculous, Like y'all can't be saying fagot all 366 00:28:51,119 --> 00:28:56,640 the time, and like if there's like, statistically speaking, there is another 367 00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,039 gay person in your chapter, Like if you have a chapter of one hundred 368 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:04,759 brothers and you don't think a single one of them has some sort of attraction 369 00:29:04,799 --> 00:29:11,160 to men, get your head out of your ass. But the president at 370 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,000 the time, I said, message the Diversity and Inclusion chair text him and 371 00:29:15,039 --> 00:29:19,880 then we'll go from there. Also, I had met with the like I'm 372 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,519 gonna say real adult, the real adult advisor of IFC, because her and 373 00:29:23,519 --> 00:29:27,599 I are BFFs. So I met with them, and I was like, 374 00:29:27,599 --> 00:29:30,559 this is what I want to do. I want to go into the president's 375 00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:38,799 meeting and I want to just go off. I walk into the house of 376 00:29:40,119 --> 00:29:45,200 one of the fraternities that I had heard call me fagot is this top tier 377 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,279 of middle tier, top tier, top tier, top tier. And I 378 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:52,960 walk into their chapter house. I am greeted by a bunch of men I 379 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,119 don't know. I'm like, I'm here for the president's meeting. They point 380 00:29:56,119 --> 00:30:03,400 me to their chapter room. I walk in and it's the Diversity and Inclusion 381 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:08,599 staff from DFSL Department of Fraternity and already life adults adults. It's the IFC 382 00:30:08,759 --> 00:30:18,680 board. It's the twenty six chapter presidents and me in their chapter room of 383 00:30:18,759 --> 00:30:23,839 a top tier fraternity that had called me faggot four days prior, and of 384 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:29,039 course the adult staff of IFC is like, I'm so sorry this happened to 385 00:30:29,079 --> 00:30:33,079 you. This isn't representative of Greek life. I hope you know that we 386 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:37,920 love and accept you. And so I go up there in front of these 387 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:42,720 twenty twenty six to twenty eight men that are the leaders of their chapters, 388 00:30:44,039 --> 00:30:48,400 and I'm like, and I recognize people that have like made fun of me 389 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:52,279 for being gay in the room, in the room, and I'm like, 390 00:30:52,799 --> 00:30:56,720 okay. So I take a deep breath, like my lip is trembling. 391 00:30:56,279 --> 00:31:00,720 Well, we're gonna get through it. So I start to produced myself. 392 00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:07,279 I start saying what had happened to me, and two presidents of different organizations 393 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:11,440 started talking while I was talking, and I go, hey, I'm here 394 00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:15,759 on my own time. This is important. You need to listen to me. 395 00:31:15,079 --> 00:31:19,240 Stop talking, and like at that moment, I'd started crying and I 396 00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:23,720 say, my name is Blah Blah blah. I am the social chair of 397 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:29,599 this chapter. You have seen me at the past seven president's meetings, I 398 00:31:29,799 --> 00:31:33,559 nominated someone for Chief Justice who was sitting in this room right now, like 399 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,559 I spoke on his behalf. You all know who I am. I've been 400 00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:40,920 here a lot, so I go into the full details of the story, 401 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,240 and then in my notes I have written down like that word is unacceptable. 402 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,559 It shows me and people like me that I don't belong in Greek life, 403 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:55,519 which is just not true. I have Preacher's diversity, inclusion and acceptance, 404 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,720 but these three back to back experiences undermines that completely. Statistically speaking, there's 405 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,240 another gay person in your chapter, and they might not be proud of coming 406 00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,359 out yet, they might not be ready for that, and when you keep 407 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:15,880 saying faggot, that just makes it worse for them. And I go into 408 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,119 my rush experience, where my biggest fear was a chapter finding out I was 409 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,680 gay, because I knew they would treat me differently. And I was like, 410 00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:28,279 that's why this word is so unacceptable, Because you might have a gay 411 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,559 rush who is trying their best to hide it because they're scared of being in 412 00:32:32,599 --> 00:32:40,519 this predominantly heterosexual space, toxic masculine space. And when a rush hears that, 413 00:32:40,519 --> 00:32:45,079 that just turns them off, like that's scary. Then they don't want 414 00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:46,599 to join Greek life at all. And if the point is to join Greek 415 00:32:46,599 --> 00:32:52,079 life, we're not doing a good job. And I say, it's not 416 00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:58,319 funny, it's very hurtful. As presidents, please step up because you're the 417 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:04,279 leaders and your brothers will listen to you. And then people would ask me 418 00:33:04,319 --> 00:33:07,279 like what chapters was it, and I was like, the chapters aren't what 419 00:33:07,359 --> 00:33:14,519 mattered. The actions are. And then I left the Diversity and Inclusion Share 420 00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:17,079 checked in on me said thank you for coming, you know, the president 421 00:33:17,279 --> 00:33:22,599 like the president of like my chapter goes, dude, you did a great 422 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:25,799 job. Like that was really powerful. I really hope people got like the 423 00:33:25,839 --> 00:33:30,119 message like thank you for sharing. I'm really proud to be your president. 424 00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:36,160 But I know nothing changed, and that's the worst part. Like they always 425 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,160 say, if you put a lot into Greek life, you will get a 426 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:43,599 lot out of it. And here I am putting in my all. I 427 00:33:43,759 --> 00:33:47,799 am exposing myself. I like thought I was like out here making a difference, 428 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,799 but I'm just playing into the system. And now I'm the token that's 429 00:33:52,839 --> 00:33:57,319 like the system's not broken. Look there's there's him, like he's gay, 430 00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,720 he's happy, in his chapter. But obviously, since I'm here, I'm 431 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:10,119 clearly not like snapped. That was definitely one of the hardest, craziest experiences 432 00:34:10,159 --> 00:34:15,039 in my college life. You're very brave, yeah, but is it bravery 433 00:34:15,159 --> 00:34:17,800 or stupidity? Like at the end of the day, like I joined the 434 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,719 systems from bravery, and I don't think it's your fault that you joined the 435 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,840 system. But and it's it's not your fault that like the system and the 436 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:30,920 people and it like gaslight you into thinking it's you and it's the them problem. 437 00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:35,280 Right, Like people always say, oh, Greek life just isn't for 438 00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,920 them, Yeah, isn't for me. Greek clip isn't for you? But 439 00:34:38,079 --> 00:34:43,559 who the how is Greek life? Four? Life? Four? Who is 440 00:34:43,599 --> 00:34:45,960 it? Four? Who is it? Is it? Four? No one 441 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:49,960 tells you college is hard in college because everyone's like, oh, my life 442 00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,719 is perfect. Look at my Instagram, Look at all my really pretty friends, 443 00:34:53,119 --> 00:35:00,199 look at my crazy party life. Like I'm thriving, but no one 444 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,480 is ever going to post on their Instagram. Yep. Another days locked in. 445 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:07,599 I locked myself in my room because I couldn't handle my roommates and I 446 00:35:07,639 --> 00:35:09,119 just needed a break from them. So I just pretended like I wasn't home 447 00:35:09,159 --> 00:35:14,800 all day. No one's going to post on their Instagram story. Everyone in 448 00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:22,159 Greek life just treats it so deeply that everything matters so much, that this 449 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,079 is the party that's gonna make or break your time in college. This is 450 00:35:27,119 --> 00:35:31,320 the rush that's gonna change our chapter. That this We're gonna have the best 451 00:35:31,360 --> 00:35:37,719 pledge class ever ever, and these lights are gonna be the coolest. We're 452 00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:42,760 gonna be the best, and people are gonna love us. And to anyone 453 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,039 considering joining Greek life, nothing's ever that deep. It's never that deep anyone 454 00:35:46,159 --> 00:35:52,199 ever, Right, Like, it just doesn't matter that some things are that 455 00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,360 deep. No, some things are some things are hypercent, but Greek life 456 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,719 switches. It's the things that are that deep aren't that deep? And the 457 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,239 gaslight you and then the things that aren't that deep are that deep? Right 458 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:13,159 right? Like me a social chair getting Keystone beer instead of Natty light was 459 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,719 one of the biggest fucking issues, but me being told to kill myself was 460 00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:24,559 dismissed. So just remember that if you joined Greek life, you gotta think 461 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,920 who are you joining it for? Are you joining it so you can show 462 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:36,239 off to your the people you knew from high school to show it off same 463 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,480 same. I was like, well, I'm not from here, so I 464 00:36:38,559 --> 00:36:44,639 was like, wow, look at me. I went to a different state. 465 00:36:45,079 --> 00:36:50,199 Yeah, I'm in a fraternity. I have all these friends. Look 466 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:55,360 at how cool my life is. Frat star on the rise on my Instagram. 467 00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,840 But in real life I never felt like any of that. So who 468 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,039 do I joined Greek Life for me or for the likes. It was to 469 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:07,320 show all these people I grew up with that I'm better than them, that 470 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:14,239 I've moved on, and it wasn't worth it. Like to the people that 471 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,960 are in Greek Life and are too scared to disaffiliate one, I feel you 472 00:37:20,639 --> 00:37:23,760 it happens, I've been too scared to disaffiliate. I probably won't disaffiliate for 473 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:27,360 the fact of the matter, Like I'm probably just gonna stick it out and 474 00:37:27,480 --> 00:37:30,760 just like that, because like I'm gonna be like, like, it's just 475 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,480 gonna have to happen. But I put it in so much into Greek Life, 476 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:43,599 and what I got out of it was worse mental health and death threats. 477 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,920 I'm sorry. That was supposed to be a joke, Like that was 478 00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:54,440 supposed to be funny, like yeah, yeah, and that's all I have 479 00:37:54,559 --> 00:38:06,639 to say. Snapped, what a roller coaster of an interview. I mean, 480 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,719 it was genuinely so hard cutting down because James and I were outside in 481 00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,000 that backyard talking for like three hours, and then we had a follow up 482 00:38:17,039 --> 00:38:25,239 interview because surprise, surprise, shit got worse. Yeah, So, Snappers, 483 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:30,639 if you want to listen to James's full interview and his follow up, 484 00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,880 which I highly recommend, you can become a patron at patreon dot com slash 485 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,159 Snapped at the ged level. This is the level you'll find all the other 486 00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:45,159 full interviews that I released from this season of Snapped. I just posted the 487 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,920 full interview with Tyler, our anonymous frat brother. If you want to learn 488 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,239 more about fraternity world, here's a preview. Is there ever an instance in 489 00:38:55,440 --> 00:39:01,880 jay Board where you guys say, let's take this to IFC or let's take 490 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:08,480 this to an advisor. So one thing, there's like sort of another way 491 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,360 we do it. It's called superboard. And so when j Board thinks that 492 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,199 something is very serious and like, it's basically like we're going to put them 493 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:20,639 on membership review, which basically means like we think that you might not be 494 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,360 your brother anymore. That goes to Superboard, which is all of the executive 495 00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:36,280 board plus all of the judicial board. Okay again, that's Patreon dot com 496 00:39:36,280 --> 00:39:50,519 slash snapped. I think it's time I leave my saborrity. My disaffiliation song 497 00:39:50,639 --> 00:39:54,079 is just stuck in my head these days. And while Snap the Musical isn't 498 00:39:54,119 --> 00:40:00,840 coming out just yet, you can get the next best thing on SeatGeek. 499 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:07,360 SeatGeek has tickets to sports, games, concerts, shows including My personal Favorite 500 00:40:07,599 --> 00:40:14,159 and the muse of the disaffiliation song Wicked the musical. So next time you're 501 00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:19,199 buying tickets to an event, use SeatGeek to buy your tickets because with codes 502 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:23,840 snapped you'll get twenty dollars off your first order, and it's an amazing way 503 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:32,039 to support the pod. That's code snapped for twenty dollars off your first order 504 00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:50,519 with SeatGeek snapped. James never disaffiliated, but that doesn't mean that he never 505 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:57,320 started the disaffiliation process. In our favorite book, Terror, Love and Brainwashing, 506 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,360 Alexandra Stein states that, as with entering a group, exiting is a 507 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:08,159 process rather than a single act. There may be many steps and many false 508 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:15,039 starts. Stein also highlights that many followers never leave the groups because of the 509 00:41:15,199 --> 00:41:21,480 powerful situational forces that play and the lack of available resources and pathways to exit. 510 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:27,840 Like, disaffiliating is such a process. It starts with a thought, 511 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,719 then you got to say it out loud. Then you need to think how 512 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,639 you're going to execute this, Like how are you going to tell your pledge 513 00:41:34,679 --> 00:41:37,719 class? What are you going to tell your big You might need to set 514 00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:39,639 it in a statement. What's your statement? You might need to meet with 515 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,639 exec you might need to meet with an alumni. You don't know what you're 516 00:41:44,679 --> 00:41:46,199 actually going to need to do versus what they tell you to do. But 517 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:52,000 it's a whole thing regardless. You all know Kirsten, a former Zeta sister 518 00:41:52,199 --> 00:41:58,400 from cal State Long Beach, a VPA one, which is what I was 519 00:41:58,519 --> 00:42:01,519 as like a traditional vice president. They would tell me that I was dragging 520 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:07,519 the organization down to my level. My roommate a president. She had to 521 00:42:07,559 --> 00:42:12,079 sign off on the paperwork to like send me to judicial and she did it 522 00:42:12,199 --> 00:42:15,320 without thinking. Twice in my interview with Kirsten, she gave me a look 523 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:20,960 inside her disaffiliating process. I didn't want to be a part of it and 524 00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:23,719 I was like trying to trick people into thinking that I liked it, and 525 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:27,039 I didn't. I knew in the back of my head, I'm like, 526 00:42:27,119 --> 00:42:30,719 I can't stay here. And I was trying to plot ways to like become 527 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:34,599 an alumni but without like dropping because in VT, I like it's either you're 528 00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:37,840 active or you're fucking quit. And then finally, at the end of that 529 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,519 semester, my term as VP was over, and I just told myself, 530 00:42:40,559 --> 00:42:43,679 I'm like, maybe things will get better, like as a general chapter, 531 00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:46,559 remember I have less responsibility, Like, maybe people won't hate me as much. 532 00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:50,599 I was a deaf study as major and I was sitting in ASL class 533 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:54,119 not paying attention. I just kept playing with the idea. I was like, 534 00:42:54,199 --> 00:42:58,639 maybe I could like graduate early or like put in my intent to graduate 535 00:42:58,679 --> 00:43:01,320 because that's all you needed to get my status. And I can trick people 536 00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:06,920 into thinking that I'm graduating and it'll be fine, and like people won't shun 537 00:43:07,079 --> 00:43:12,000 me. In Terror Love and Brainwashing, Stein explains that those who leave cultic 538 00:43:12,119 --> 00:43:16,360 groups can be shunned on exit. Stein goes on to say that shunning is 539 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:22,679 for the unsupportive, while those who remain friendly can stay on the periphery, 540 00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:30,119 helping in various ways. These are called peripheral members. Stein explains that these 541 00:43:30,159 --> 00:43:35,519 are non compliant or non productive group followers that won't be allowed in the inner 542 00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:40,440 core, but will be encouraged to remain in the periphery. Many groups have 543 00:43:40,599 --> 00:43:45,920 peripheral members who are still technically part of the group as long as they provide 544 00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:52,119 some resources and remain uncritical. Not all followers need to be controlled entirely, 545 00:43:52,559 --> 00:43:58,280 as long as they contribute in some way. Pang dues Stein notes that they 546 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:02,719 may be living largely into pendant lives but are still providing a degree of support 547 00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:08,280 and are being shut off from recovery. So going early alum for example, 548 00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:14,960 or being one of those members that are just not involved at all, you 549 00:44:15,039 --> 00:44:19,480 know, I just go to the parties. I would consider these to be 550 00:44:19,679 --> 00:44:23,920 pro freeal members. So in Kirsten's case, it seems like she was plotting 551 00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,800 ways to become a pro freel member, but it was too late because she 552 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:34,199 was already part of the inner core. But the more I thought about it, 553 00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,800 I'm like, I don't want to be a part of an organization where 554 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:39,159 people like fucking hate me. I kept up a secret for a while I 555 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:43,920 called my best friend in the sorority and I was like, hey, I'm 556 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,599 leaving, Like I hope we can still be friends. And she's like, 557 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,880 yeah, like we can still be friends. Like you understand, Like it's 558 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,679 not going to be the same anymore. Right. We didn't have anything to 559 00:44:52,719 --> 00:44:57,639 talk about anymore, like when you're in a sorority, like that's your life. 560 00:44:58,119 --> 00:45:01,519 When I disaffiliated, I had genuine hope that I'd stay friends with some 561 00:45:01,639 --> 00:45:07,719 of my former sisters, but yeah, we didn't really have much to talk 562 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:14,840 about anymore. And I actually went through a huge friendship breakup due to me 563 00:45:15,039 --> 00:45:19,280 leaving, which you heard about in season one. You never get used to 564 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,400 an army of like one hundred, one hundred and twenty girls like hating you, 565 00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:27,320 Like there's parts of campus you can't go to anymore. Yeah. Literally, 566 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,840 I would hide same, I would go on one route. Oh my 567 00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:37,800 god, me too. I did that for a year. It was super, 568 00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:45,960 super healing for me to interview Christine for this season of Snapped. Christine 569 00:45:45,079 --> 00:45:51,639 was my former sorority sister and was my closest friend in Alpha FI. She 570 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:55,119 was actually the friend that I had the huge friendship breakup with because I was 571 00:45:55,239 --> 00:46:04,079 leaving the sorority and was going to eventually tell title nine about what happened in 572 00:46:04,199 --> 00:46:08,679 the sorority. You've heard different parts of me and Christine's interview throughout the season. 573 00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,960 I was vice president of diversity and inclusion. I got basically bitched out 574 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:22,000 by one of the fraternity members. I think he actually called me like a 575 00:46:22,119 --> 00:46:27,519 diversity nazi. I'm kind of like, is the fact that the theme of 576 00:46:27,639 --> 00:46:34,199 this party filled with basically white people that it's not sinco de mayo? Like, 577 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,760 is that ruining your time? Like I'm so sorry that you're not having 578 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:42,760 fun right now because you can't appropriate someone's culture. While Christine was upset that 579 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,760 I disaffiliated, she actually ended up disaffiliating a couple of semesters after I did. 580 00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:52,679 As much as I didn't act like it, I absolutely didn't forget what 581 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:58,280 happened to you, Like that was not like not thought about just because we 582 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:01,480 weren't talking. I can imagine that it would be weird to see someone who 583 00:47:01,519 --> 00:47:07,599 you're really close with and this a alty disaffiliating really weird, And I remember 584 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,639 I knew that it was going to affect our friendship because you were not leaving 585 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,559 on good terms at all, and I was still part of it. And 586 00:47:15,679 --> 00:47:17,519 at that time I had known that I was going to eventually be moving into 587 00:47:17,559 --> 00:47:21,360 the place you just moved out of, so you know, that cuts out 588 00:47:21,559 --> 00:47:25,280 being able to come over. I think that you had such a hard time 589 00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:29,599 with it just because like that could have been you too, you know, 590 00:47:30,079 --> 00:47:34,079 oh, it easily could have been me, And like there were huge parts 591 00:47:34,159 --> 00:47:37,320 of me that were jealous. Like, for all I know, if I 592 00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:42,079 had never gotten snapped, Lord, I might have been the fucking vice president 593 00:47:42,119 --> 00:47:45,840 of diversity and inclusion. And for all we know, if Christine had gotten 594 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:49,760 snapped and then moved into the chapter house and you know, the whole fucking 595 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:55,440 Shenanigan, maybe she would have disaffiliated mid semester. I think, more than 596 00:47:55,519 --> 00:48:00,719 anything at all, really is the system. It motes so much drinking and 597 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:07,119 so much like social acceptance on the grounds of who you're fucking and like what 598 00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,360 frat they're in. You know, it put ideas in my head that weren't 599 00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:15,440 in line with the values that I wanted to have for myself as a person. 600 00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:19,960 And I mean you can say this too, like I was the girl 601 00:48:20,079 --> 00:48:23,199 that completely like denied your sexual soul and like stopped being there for you, 602 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,599 you know, once I had said that it was going to impact, you 603 00:48:27,679 --> 00:48:30,840 know, the brand. Thinking back on that compared to how I see it 604 00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:36,400 all now and like the rape culture of the of the system, it's just 605 00:48:36,519 --> 00:48:39,639 so interesting to think that I would have ever done that to you. It's 606 00:48:39,679 --> 00:48:43,800 like one of those pivotal things in my life where you know, like I 607 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:47,639 look forward to the day where like my kid comes home and like was wrong, 608 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,559 and I can tell them about a time when I was too, and 609 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,440 like how to deal with being wrong, and how like you should be very 610 00:48:55,519 --> 00:48:58,760 clear that you were you know, like I can't wait to like tell my 611 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,280 kids about this. I love that, Yeah, I love that. Yeah 612 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:12,960 on record snapped. Let's see what happened with our girl, Kadi Julie. 613 00:49:13,639 --> 00:49:16,159 You've got to be kidding if you don't remember Kadi Julie from the first two 614 00:49:16,199 --> 00:49:22,480 episodes of this season, but I'll give you a flashback. Anyway, someone 615 00:49:22,519 --> 00:49:25,920 would come and check on you on certain days of the week and make sure 616 00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,440 you were in your bed, and they would call it bed checks. The 617 00:49:30,519 --> 00:49:35,400 whole going to Appleby's to talk shit. They called that risk management. Kadi 618 00:49:35,559 --> 00:49:40,760 Julie was a former Kappa Delta's sister at the University of Idaho. We knew 619 00:49:42,519 --> 00:49:45,920 there were rules around dating sisters, and we knew what we were was bordering 620 00:49:46,679 --> 00:49:52,320 friends and dating. When Katie Julie was a sophomore, the University of Idaho 621 00:49:52,599 --> 00:49:59,559 removed her major. As a result, she transferred to Western Kentucky University. 622 00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:05,079 The Katies in Kentucky were so different from the Katies in Idaho. They were 623 00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,280 top tier. They had the best house on campus, They had one Greek 624 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:13,119 week like twelve years in a row. They were also like seen as like 625 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,760 the best chapter in the country. When you're in a sorority and you transfer 626 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:23,480 schools, you're supposed to automatically be accepted into that sorority at the new school. 627 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:30,800 Supposed to be they said, actually, we're gonna wait and put you 628 00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:35,000 on a probationary status. Like your grades aren't exactly where we want them to 629 00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:38,519 be, you're not a part of any clubs. We're gonna have you sort 630 00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:45,239 of just not join yet and we'll tell you when you can join. And 631 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:51,360 like it was obvious from the jump that, like my esthetic was not what 632 00:50:51,519 --> 00:50:54,480 this sorority was looking for. It's not what Kappa Delta in Kentucky was about 633 00:50:55,159 --> 00:50:59,679 and multiple exact members had told me, well, maybe you're just not a 634 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,880 but Delta girl, and I like fully was like, I'm going to prove 635 00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,760 them wrong. Like I'm gonna play their game as hard as they want me 636 00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:13,280 to play it. I think a lot of people end up playing the game 637 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,360 like James wanted to prove that he could be the frat star. And in 638 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:22,679 my conversation with Julia from the University of Pittsburgh, she was being pushed out 639 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:28,800 of the sorority, like through bullying or whatnot, but she told me that 640 00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:32,159 she stayed because she didn't want to let them win. I decided to stick 641 00:51:32,199 --> 00:51:35,960 it out because I wanted to prove I could do it. I didn't want 642 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,840 them to win, and I wanted to stick around and piss people off too, 643 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:43,239 and I kinda do. I was like, Okay, watch me, 644 00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,719 I'm gonna stay and I'm gonna come to every party and I'm gonna get drunk 645 00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:49,800 and I'm gonna smoke weed. Bye. I'm gonna get drunk and I'm gonna 646 00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:52,840 smoke weed bye. Can I make them my ring down? This is how 647 00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:58,480 Katie Julie stuck it out as a top tier Kappa Delta. So I was 648 00:51:58,559 --> 00:52:04,960 being billed due even though I wasn't fully involved, and that during that year, 649 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:08,480 I wasn't allowed to attend meetings, I wasn't allowed to attend parties or 650 00:52:08,559 --> 00:52:13,320 any social events, and I wasn't allowed to attend any Philan three events. 651 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:16,559 I was allowed to wear letters, but they were like, you won't have 652 00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:20,880 any of the updated letters. You'll only have letters that you have, and 653 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:23,960 I'm like, okay, so all of my letters look completely different and say 654 00:52:24,079 --> 00:52:29,000 Idaho on them, and you all have Kentucky letters and I don't even have 655 00:52:29,119 --> 00:52:31,840 any of those. And so they would be like, hey, Julie, 656 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:35,199 I know you're not part of the sorority and we know you didn't get any 657 00:52:35,199 --> 00:52:38,320 of this memo, but we'll give you a homecoming sweatshirt if you pomp for 658 00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:44,280 us from eight pm to four am. And I was so desperate to be 659 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,760 included, I said sure, and so I pomp. I like folded little 660 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:52,199 pieces of paper from eight pm to four am one day just to get like 661 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:58,119 a sweatshirt that said I was like part of the Kentucky Katies. Then twenty 662 00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:02,599 twenty happened and we all got sent home and a bunch of girls dropped, 663 00:53:04,079 --> 00:53:07,119 and so Katie was desperate for people, and so I was invited back, 664 00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:10,639 but I was like so desperate still that I was like, fine, I'll 665 00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:13,880 do it, like I'll be a part of it. I want to be 666 00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,639 top tier, Like that sounds amazing. So I took it, and they 667 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:22,440 still continued to put me in like a position where I wasn't a full sister, 668 00:53:23,119 --> 00:53:27,559 like I didn't have a big And then I asked, I was like, 669 00:53:28,039 --> 00:53:30,280 hey, is there any way I can take a little. I'd love 670 00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:32,360 to take a little, And they're like, no, not right now. 671 00:53:32,599 --> 00:53:36,559 You're not ready. You haven't done the training. You're not ready. And 672 00:53:36,599 --> 00:53:38,840 I was like, okay, I guess I'll just do the training when it's 673 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:44,920 available next And then two days before Big Little, they said, hey, 674 00:53:45,039 --> 00:53:47,559 Julie, we had a girl that didn't like the person she was assigned to 675 00:53:47,639 --> 00:53:52,199 have was her little. Do you want this girl? And the girl that 676 00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:58,000 they offered me was a plus size woman. They took anyone that was like 677 00:53:58,079 --> 00:54:00,599 willing during virtual recruitment, and now the other sisters were like, I don't 678 00:54:00,599 --> 00:54:04,119 want to be her big and like somebody even told me. They're like, 679 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:08,119 we're so thankful that you took her on as a little and like for big 680 00:54:08,199 --> 00:54:12,360 Little, everyone was like, just so you know, the big little expectations 681 00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,840 that you spend two hundred dollars on your little. And so when they had 682 00:54:15,920 --> 00:54:20,920 told me two days before big Little happened, I fully didn't go to class 683 00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:24,159 for two days because I just spent like crafting for my little and getting everything 684 00:54:24,199 --> 00:54:29,679 for my little. But I was desperate to be needed and desperate to be 685 00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,400 wanted. Like I have never felt more supported than when I had two days 686 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:37,599 to get stuff for my little, Because I had women dropping off T shirts 687 00:54:37,639 --> 00:54:38,719 on my door and they were like, do you want to help me paint 688 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:43,320 canvases? I'd love to paint a canvas for you. Someone like dropped off 689 00:54:43,559 --> 00:54:46,079 fake Air Jordan's at my door and they were like, oh, you're soon 690 00:54:46,199 --> 00:54:50,960 to be little really likes air Jordan's. Do you want to paint these capital 691 00:54:51,079 --> 00:54:58,039 to colors with capital to symbols for her? And we are not the strongest 692 00:54:58,119 --> 00:55:00,920 like big little pair, and so like, really, what being her big 693 00:55:01,159 --> 00:55:05,800 turned out to be was like I bought her a bottle of wine every couple 694 00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,679 of months, and then the last sort of straw with my Kentucky experience was 695 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:16,639 there was a there was a Greek Week event called Spring Sing where all the 696 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:22,880 sororities op fraternities put on a big show and dance number, which I was 697 00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:25,320 all about and was like, yes, this is so my things. I 698 00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:30,760 like made it past the audition process. I was like trying to like meet 699 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:34,599 the other girls. It kind of felt like it was starting to be normal. 700 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,559 And in the middle of rehearsal for Spring Sing, my knee gives out 701 00:55:38,800 --> 00:55:43,159 and I find out a year later that I had tore my acl that day. 702 00:55:43,599 --> 00:55:47,719 It was super hard coming to terms with like I had injured myself and 703 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:54,960 I couldn't participate in Spring Sing anymore. Not only was my experience my soritis 704 00:55:55,039 --> 00:56:00,760 experience in Kentucky complete nutter shit, but like to top it off, that 705 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,079 I was injured from the sorority and there was no way for me to ask 706 00:56:06,199 --> 00:56:10,079 the sorority to compensate because God forbid, I leave my light on in my 707 00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:15,760 room and get find fifty bucks, but I can't find you five hundred bucks 708 00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,360 for breaking my knee. And like, even after I broke it, they 709 00:56:19,440 --> 00:56:23,480 still asked me to carry on the set pieces for the show. I didn't 710 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:28,360 think I was coming back to the university, and so I dropped Pin because 711 00:56:28,400 --> 00:56:31,079 of that. What was it like dropping Pin? I don't even think I 712 00:56:31,119 --> 00:56:36,280 em up. I think I messaged the president in group me and said, 713 00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:40,199 hey, I don't think I'm coming back to the school, so I'm gonna 714 00:56:40,639 --> 00:56:44,679 drop Pin. And she goes, great, can you send a message to 715 00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:46,519 the big group me, like with all the sisters in it? And then 716 00:56:46,559 --> 00:56:51,079 you're done? And I literally sent a message. I was like, hey, 717 00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,480 ladies, love you all so much, but I will not be returning 718 00:56:54,760 --> 00:57:00,280 in the fall. I've moved on to my big girl job and I'm so 719 00:57:00,639 --> 00:57:05,719 blessed to have you ladies in my life. Aot heart heart heart Julie. 720 00:57:05,840 --> 00:57:10,920 And then they were like, love you so much like my sister forever. 721 00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:19,239 Yeah. It was one hour of like you're amazing, like we're so happy 722 00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:23,519 to see you thriving, girly, like love you babes, and then like 723 00:57:23,639 --> 00:57:28,159 I got one full hour and then they removed me from the group shot and 724 00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:36,480 I haven't heard anything since. In Terror, Love and Brainwashing, Stein notes 725 00:57:36,559 --> 00:57:43,480 the incults group support is highly conditional. What this means is that you may 726 00:57:43,559 --> 00:57:47,360 be able to get support from a fellow member if that support is required to 727 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:53,119 further the goals of the group. Stein provides the example that if you get 728 00:57:53,159 --> 00:57:58,519 a flat tire and it might stop the group from completing a task, then 729 00:57:58,599 --> 00:58:02,039 another member might be quick to respond and help you with that flat tire, 730 00:58:02,519 --> 00:58:07,360 because doing so makes them a productive member of the group. However, if 731 00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:13,880 a member gets sick and cannot contribute, they may often be ignored completely. 732 00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:17,840 This makes me think of how all of a sudden Katie. Julie's sisters were 733 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:23,320 there for support when it came to her little's basket, but when Julie tore 734 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:30,239 her acl and couldn't participate in spring sing anymore, like sorry about your leg 735 00:58:31,159 --> 00:58:49,840 bye, Snapped by Snapped. If you tuned into our Away Weekend episode, 736 00:58:50,480 --> 00:59:00,519 you'll remember Gemma from George Washington University was a super active member of my sorority 737 00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:06,360 and then I was assaulted by a member of a top tier frat. So 738 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,119 I had to have a conversation with the president about what happened to me, 739 00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:15,800 and the president told me she had to tell the alumni and nationals, and 740 00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:21,039 I asked her to keep my name anonymous, and she did not. Gemma 741 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:25,840 really wanted to disaffiliate, but of course there's always a catch. For Social 742 00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:30,840 Chair James, the catch was, but I'm living in frat housing. For 743 00:59:31,039 --> 00:59:36,840 Gemma, the catch was, but I'm on EXAC. You hate to see 744 00:59:36,880 --> 00:59:42,840 it. And to be specific, Gemma was the VP of recruitment. You 745 00:59:43,199 --> 00:59:47,480 hate to see it. If you don't understand how high stakes that is in 746 00:59:47,599 --> 00:59:52,679 sorority world, you've got to go listen to the season two recruitment special. 747 00:59:53,840 --> 01:00:00,840 That's all I'm gonna say. I am heavily considering disaffiliated. But when I 748 01:00:00,360 --> 01:00:07,320 talked to Exact about disaffiliating, they essentially told me that first I needed to 749 01:00:07,360 --> 01:00:12,559 step down from my position as VP of Recruitment, and that is all based 750 01:00:12,639 --> 01:00:16,480 on whether or not they find an adequate replacement for me. So they'd have 751 01:00:16,599 --> 01:00:21,719 to interview people and then find someone they liked, and then get it approved 752 01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:23,400 by Exact, and then get it approved by the alumni, and get it 753 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,039 approved by the chapter. So it could take anywhere from a month to two 754 01:00:28,119 --> 01:00:30,920 months, and by that time, recruitment will be right around the corner. 755 01:00:31,199 --> 01:00:36,880 So essentially, the way that I was told about it is like we probably 756 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,559 wouldn't be able to find a replacement, and that's coming from the alums who 757 01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:45,440 decide whether or not they approve a replacement. But then I was like, 758 01:00:45,559 --> 01:00:50,920 now, like, I really don't think I can be here anymore. And 759 01:00:51,159 --> 01:00:55,440 essentially when I asked about just like their general process of disaffiliating, they told 760 01:00:55,480 --> 01:01:02,679 me I needed to have an interview the alums about why I'm disaffiliating and they 761 01:01:02,719 --> 01:01:07,239 would be able to approve or deny it because I'm on exact, So like, 762 01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:13,639 I'm really trapped. It's just like I can't Lucy, like I can't 763 01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:19,599 run a recruitment and make girls. Literally can't. I can't, But for 764 01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:25,159 some reason, I feel like I have an obligation to like continue going on, 765 01:01:25,639 --> 01:01:30,280 especially like being on exact and trying to disaffiliate. They like say things 766 01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:34,239 to you, like but your sisters love you so much. Your sisters voted 767 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,840 for you to be a part of this, and the alums did too, 768 01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:43,480 like we believe in you. Despite the pressure against her, Gemma managed to 769 01:01:43,559 --> 01:01:47,480 disaffiliate and they never made her meet with the alum. The best part about 770 01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:52,519 leaving sorority world is that you no longer need to follow sobrity world rules. 771 01:01:53,559 --> 01:01:59,920 Welcome to the real world. Yeah, do you ever wonder if you're sort 772 01:02:00,239 --> 01:02:05,440 was a cult? Same? I went down a huge rabbit hole trying to 773 01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,400 answer this question, and along the way I found Terror Love and Brainwashing by 774 01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:15,719 cult survivor and expert Alexandra Stein. Based on the amount of times I mentioned 775 01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:19,400 the book in this podcast, you already know how eye opening it is. 776 01:02:20,199 --> 01:02:24,119 But I'm just sharing little tidbits and to truly answer the cult question, you 777 01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:29,840 got to hear it from the expert herself. We're partnering with Audible to offer 778 01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:34,639 you a free thirty day Audible trial. This means that for thirty days, 779 01:02:34,719 --> 01:02:40,679 you'll have access to thousands of audiobooks, including Terror Love and Brainwashing. Snapped 780 01:02:40,719 --> 01:02:45,840 has allowed me to share my story and has allowed so many others to now 781 01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:51,880 share theirs. To keep supporting Snapped and storytelling of all kinds, visit Audible 782 01:02:52,000 --> 01:03:00,880 trial dot com slash snapped. That's Audible trial dot com slash snapped snapped. 783 01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:08,360 The response the chapter members give to those who want to disaffiliate seems dependent on 784 01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:14,000 what's convenient for the chapter. You know, it's either we love you, 785 01:03:14,519 --> 01:03:21,119 don't disaffiliate because you're supposed to lead recruitment or you're the token gay in a 786 01:03:21,199 --> 01:03:27,960 homophobic chapter. And then the other classic responses, Greek life isn't for everyone. 787 01:03:29,159 --> 01:03:32,480 That's what I was told. And yeah, I mean I definitely was 788 01:03:32,599 --> 01:03:37,760 not an asset anymore. If anything, I was making people uncomfortable because I 789 01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:43,280 was reacting to the slut shaming and hazing going on. So do you really 790 01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:47,760 think they wanted me talking to p and ms during recruitment. I'll let you 791 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:55,440 answer that one for yourself. Remember Julia from like ten minutes ago, the 792 01:03:55,559 --> 01:03:59,760 one who said I'm gonna get drunk and I'm gonna smoke weed. Bye. 793 01:04:00,880 --> 01:04:03,079 She was the one that also told us about the classy meter in episode two 794 01:04:03,159 --> 01:04:10,119 of this season, and guess what, snappers, Julia was also told Greek 795 01:04:10,199 --> 01:04:15,440 life isn't for everyone. So I was feeling so ostracized, like the other 796 01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,360 women in my pledge class really disliked me. And I went to my big 797 01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,320 sister and I knocked on her door and I cried to her, and I 798 01:04:21,440 --> 01:04:24,679 was like, I don't know if I can do this, Like I'm having 799 01:04:24,760 --> 01:04:27,800 horrible time. People are yelling at me, people are teaming up on me, 800 01:04:28,079 --> 01:04:29,559 and I was like, I don't know what to do. And she 801 01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:33,840 said, sororities are hard and they're not for everyone, and I remember feeling 802 01:04:33,880 --> 01:04:38,519 so angry. I was like, aren't you going to defend me? Like, 803 01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:43,119 aren't you gonna speak up for me? It was just, well, 804 01:04:43,280 --> 01:04:45,599 I'm sorry you feel that way, and it was like my fault. I 805 01:04:45,679 --> 01:04:49,800 felt like it was my fault for being ostracized because sororities are hard, which 806 01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:53,599 implies that if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. 807 01:04:54,039 --> 01:04:56,519 That's such a non answer when people are like, well, like when I 808 01:04:56,559 --> 01:04:58,360 said to my big I don't know if I fit in, and it was 809 01:04:58,440 --> 01:05:00,960 Greek life not for everyone. Sorority aren't for everyone, Like that's it's a 810 01:05:01,079 --> 01:05:05,239 thought terminating cliche. Yeah, it's a thought terminating cliche. I love that. 811 01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:09,880 It's not a I'm sorry that happened to you. What can I do? 812 01:05:10,079 --> 01:05:13,280 It's not do you want to drop? Like, how can I help 813 01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,360 you if you really need to get out? It's not any of that. 814 01:05:15,519 --> 01:05:19,039 It's okay, sorry you feel that way, and it's the worst thing you 815 01:05:19,119 --> 01:05:26,559 can hear when you're really struggling. In her book Cultish, Amanda Montell explains 816 01:05:26,599 --> 01:05:32,960 that thought terminating cliches are catch phrases aimed at halting an argument by discouraging critical 817 01:05:33,159 --> 01:05:41,400 thought. Montell states that cultish leaders often use thought terminating cliches to rationalize someone 818 01:05:41,519 --> 01:05:46,800 leaving, but thought terminating cliches can be observed in everyday life. For example, 819 01:05:47,719 --> 01:05:53,119 it is what it is, boys will be boys. Everything happens for 820 01:05:53,239 --> 01:05:58,920 a reason. These are all thoughts terminating cliches. Montell states that a thought 821 01:05:59,079 --> 01:06:04,400 terminating cliche is a temporary psychological sedative. But I still hold on to a 822 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:09,320 degree of self blame because I'm like, well, maybe I did something wrong, 823 01:06:09,360 --> 01:06:12,039 like maybe I was a bitch or maybe I was rude, because they 824 01:06:12,039 --> 01:06:15,000 would say I was rude. They always make it so that you're the problem. 825 01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:18,199 Yeah, and a lot of different high control groups do that. It's 826 01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:25,559 never the group's fault, it's always your fault. Snapped, Are you worried 827 01:06:25,559 --> 01:06:30,480 about disaffiliating because you'll have to give away all your merch, like all the 828 01:06:30,559 --> 01:06:33,280 stuff you got in your big little basket. I get it, Snappers, 829 01:06:33,639 --> 01:06:38,760 that ship made up half my wardrobe. But once I left sorority world, 830 01:06:38,960 --> 01:06:42,519 I realized that you don't have to be part of a sorority in order to 831 01:06:42,639 --> 01:06:47,119 have cute merch. This is a public service announcement to throw all your alphadel 832 01:06:47,239 --> 01:06:53,960 to try pie taw Apsilon merch and your snapped tote bag, put on your 833 01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:57,400 Greek Life visit for everyone, crew Neck, and run the fuck out of 834 01:06:57,440 --> 01:07:00,719 the chapter house. Wait what, you don't have a snap toebag or a 835 01:07:00,719 --> 01:07:05,199 Greek Life isn't for everyone? Crew Neck? Well you better head on over 836 01:07:05,320 --> 01:07:10,880 to Snap the podcast dot com and check out our merch for season three. 837 01:07:11,559 --> 01:07:15,800 No dress check here, Snappers. I promise you that I can't believe this 838 01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:21,400 is the last episode of season three and maybe even if snapped. As you 839 01:07:21,519 --> 01:07:26,840 know, we are an independent podcast and it's hard to make this work sustainable. 840 01:07:27,239 --> 01:07:30,559 Buying merch is an incredible way to support this work and stay connected to 841 01:07:30,639 --> 01:07:35,039 the Snappers, regardless of the fate of the show. I remember when I 842 01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:40,000 was still an Alpha fee I would wear my merch to the airport in hopes 843 01:07:40,079 --> 01:07:44,360 that another sister would recognize me and we'd have our little moment of oh my 844 01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:49,519 God. Since then, Alpha Fie International has made it extremely clear that they 845 01:07:49,639 --> 01:07:53,880 do not want me wearing their merch. Hashtag Greek LIFs not for me, 846 01:07:54,000 --> 01:08:00,800 and so that I say, great, great, I've got snapped merch, 847 01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:04,840 and Miley sayres merch, It's really fine. I don't need your merch. 848 01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:09,199 And you better believe I'm wearing my snap merch to the airport, and you 849 01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:14,000 better believe I'm going to find some snappers, because you don't have to be 850 01:08:14,119 --> 01:08:17,680 part of a sorority to be part of a community. We have our own 851 01:08:17,880 --> 01:08:27,319 right here. So with heavy stuff. Ten years later about now, right, 852 01:08:28,039 --> 01:08:30,399 yep. I graduated in twenty twelve, so it's a decade later, 853 01:08:30,520 --> 01:08:33,399 and this stuff still sticks with me, and I still think about it, 854 01:08:33,680 --> 01:08:38,960 and I definitely have dreams sometimes about it, like nightmares where they all kind 855 01:08:39,000 --> 01:08:41,720 of come up and tell me they don't like me. In order to this 856 01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,079 day, like I feel like if I was in a room with a lot 857 01:08:45,119 --> 01:08:48,640 of these people, I would feel incredible anxiety. I used to get sorority 858 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,920 nightmares as well, every night for like two months straight. At one point 859 01:08:54,000 --> 01:08:59,119 I had to change my medication because I needed something to change. Kirsten still 860 01:08:59,279 --> 01:09:06,800 gets sobrity nightmares. I still have nightmares about it. I still have panic 861 01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,520 attacks about it. And I tried to move on. I literally moved to 862 01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,159 the other side of the country and I was like I'm in a different environment, 863 01:09:13,239 --> 01:09:17,439 like it's time for me to like shed my past and just become me 864 01:09:17,680 --> 01:09:21,439 again. But then when they abolished Greek life movement happened, like I realized 865 01:09:21,479 --> 01:09:26,199 that, like the ship wasn't just me, and I realized that like I 866 01:09:26,439 --> 01:09:29,119 can't like I don't care if it gets annoyed with me that I keep talking 867 01:09:29,159 --> 01:09:31,000 about this, like it doesn't deserve to be like shoved in a corner and 868 01:09:31,079 --> 01:09:33,399 just be like, well, those people are stupid. Like they joined the 869 01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:36,319 cold. People could join cold. It doesn't mean that they're not smart at 870 01:09:36,319 --> 01:09:40,439 means that they need to fill avoid in themselves. And that's what I needed 871 01:09:40,479 --> 01:09:43,840 to do. And that's everybody I met in Greek life because they all had 872 01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:48,279 some self esteem issues. I resonate so much with what you said, especially 873 01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:54,079 like talking about it a lot when people when you leave or there's this expectation 874 01:09:54,199 --> 01:09:59,199 that like it's over, but like it's not. At the end of a 875 01:09:59,279 --> 01:10:08,079 lot of interview used the interview would seem relieved and validated, maybe even vindicated. 876 01:10:09,039 --> 01:10:12,319 For a lot of these people, these interviews were the first time that 877 01:10:12,399 --> 01:10:15,960 they were sharing their full Greek life experience. You know, this is like 878 01:10:16,039 --> 01:10:20,359 the first time I'm really, like ever talking about it out loud honestly feels 879 01:10:20,359 --> 01:10:24,159 like a weight, like a little bit having been able to talk to someone 880 01:10:24,199 --> 01:10:27,079 else about it. Yeah, especially outside the story, because I feel like, 881 01:10:27,399 --> 01:10:30,479 oh, a lot of the times you only talk, you only talk 882 01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:32,800 within your sorority or like to maybe the chapters that are on your campus. 883 01:10:33,039 --> 01:10:39,760 But when you talk to someone outside of sorority world, it's the way you're 884 01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:43,399 presenting it is different. Yeah, well, the way they look at you 885 01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:45,520 when you say something you're like, oh, that's not weird. Oh that 886 01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:51,159 is okay, You're right, that is weird. That's actually remembered. Yeah, 887 01:10:51,199 --> 01:10:55,079 it takes sometimes seeing it from someone else's perspective and go, oh that 888 01:10:55,239 --> 01:10:59,800 is very culty or yeah, or yeah, that really is actually against my 889 01:10:59,840 --> 01:11:02,520 own personal values. Why am I doing that? It's just so awesome to 890 01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:08,119 be able to talk about it, because I really haven't talked about my experience 891 01:11:08,880 --> 01:11:12,960 being in a sorority with anybody because the people I knew in college we're all 892 01:11:13,039 --> 01:11:16,159 in sports, so it's not like you can ship to up the process when 893 01:11:16,199 --> 01:11:18,720 everyone else is full balls deep in it, you know what I mean. 894 01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:25,960 Like in terror, love and brainwashing. Stein explains that for cult survivors, 895 01:11:26,159 --> 01:11:30,680 telling the story of their experience is a way to reassert agency and to reclaim 896 01:11:30,760 --> 01:11:39,079 their own ability to interpret that experience. In this reclaiming, survivors move towards 897 01:11:39,199 --> 01:11:45,520 resolution of the disassociation between their felt experience and the official narrative that the group 898 01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:53,119 imposed. So the narrative that's imposed by the group is this was my fault. 899 01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:57,760 Greek life isn't for me. But when you look at it from a 900 01:11:57,800 --> 01:12:02,840 bird's eye view, the fact is this has nothing to do with me. 901 01:12:04,279 --> 01:12:09,520 And that's why we need to talk about it so that we don't blame ourselves. 902 01:12:10,119 --> 01:12:14,800 Like I genuinely think that I don't have sorority nightmares anymore because I was 903 01:12:14,920 --> 01:12:21,880 able to one piece together my own narrative about my experience, and two speak 904 01:12:21,960 --> 01:12:28,319 with so many others about their experiences, and you know, we all just 905 01:12:28,560 --> 01:12:32,479 validated each other along the way. I was like, what is wrong with 906 01:12:32,720 --> 01:12:38,279 me that I can't fit into this mold of the sorority girl? What's wrong 907 01:12:38,359 --> 01:12:43,039 with me? Why am I the one who's being targeted? Why am I 908 01:12:43,199 --> 01:12:46,279 the one who's picked on? And I realized after leaving it's because I have 909 01:12:46,439 --> 01:12:50,840 the loudest voice and I don't sit back. It's because I don't fit their 910 01:12:50,880 --> 01:12:55,039 mold, and that's okay. It's okay for me. I'm not made for 911 01:12:55,159 --> 01:12:58,720 it. And I think I'm gonna say that thanks to you that you gave, 912 01:12:58,880 --> 01:13:03,560 you taught me it's okay. I helped you realize for you helped you. 913 01:13:04,319 --> 01:13:10,279 You still need your own moral compass. You knew it wasn't okay before 914 01:13:10,359 --> 01:13:13,359 I said it. You just needed to be validated. I needed someone to 915 01:13:13,439 --> 01:13:17,079 tell me it was okay to not write like Greek Lives isn't for everyone, 916 01:13:17,159 --> 01:13:20,760 and my god, it's not for me. Greek lives not for me? 917 01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:30,640 What was that breaking point? I was diagnosed with TTSD in January of this 918 01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,720 year, and so I was like, I don't care. I don't care 919 01:13:34,840 --> 01:13:42,960 if our shoes match our dresses. I don't I don't care that try Beta 920 01:13:43,960 --> 01:13:48,800 is having a party. I don't care that it's their philanthropy. Weeks stop, 921 01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:53,000 and I'm going to stop surrounding myself with people who aren't making me happy 922 01:13:53,239 --> 01:13:57,359 to be alive anymore. And I listened to your podcast and there was one 923 01:13:57,479 --> 01:14:03,199 girl I don't remember her name was talked about how the girls were broken up 924 01:14:03,239 --> 01:14:11,800 into like society standard of pretty. She's talking about Kirston, who wasn't included 925 01:14:11,880 --> 01:14:15,439 in Zada's professional photo shoot. Kirsten told us the story. In this season 926 01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:25,840 two recruitment special, they put the white and white passing girls and one category 927 01:14:25,920 --> 01:14:29,880 and also like the thin girls that's important too, and then they put bigger 928 01:14:29,960 --> 01:14:33,239 girls and people of color just in a different section. And there was a 929 01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:40,680 photo shoot for the recruitment video. Yea, yeah, Kirsten, yes, 930 01:14:41,079 --> 01:14:46,199 and she told her story and how they spelled out my sororities. Zada letters, 931 01:14:47,079 --> 01:14:50,800 Yeah, this is insane, Like that was my breaking point. I 932 01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:55,319 was like, I can't do this anymore. And that's why we need to 933 01:14:55,439 --> 01:14:58,760 keep speaking up. I'm interested to see if I get any pushback from doing 934 01:14:58,840 --> 01:15:02,880 this, Like technically we're not supposed to talk to media, so I'll let 935 01:15:02,960 --> 01:15:08,600 you know. Yeah for sure, And I can keep you as anonymous as 936 01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,000 you want. I think you said your first name. No, I'm totally 937 01:15:12,079 --> 01:15:15,199 okay with you blasting whatever you need to. For me, I can be 938 01:15:15,399 --> 01:15:19,720 completely unanonymous. I totally understand women wanting to stay anonymous, and I support 939 01:15:19,760 --> 01:15:25,640 them in that decision. But I think there's huge power and not being anonymous, 940 01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:28,920 and I'm tired of having to play that game. I'm not doing that 941 01:15:29,000 --> 01:15:33,319 anymore. I'll be loud, and I'm privileged and safe enough in my space 942 01:15:33,760 --> 01:15:40,319 and who I am and with my connections and my loves and my families that 943 01:15:40,399 --> 01:15:44,479 I can burn every sorority bridge down if I need to. If that's what 944 01:15:44,600 --> 01:15:47,359 this takes, I'm okay with that, and I'm okay with them coming at 945 01:15:47,399 --> 01:15:53,439 me like that. I've decided that's just part of the role I'm taking on. 946 01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:56,640 I understand other women aren't okay with that, and I support them for 947 01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,920 that, but there's going to need to be front women. There's going to 948 01:16:00,199 --> 01:16:01,840 need to be women who are willing to put their name on it, and 949 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:05,479 I'm I'm willing to do that, and I'm again, you're willing to do 950 01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:10,079 that, which is huge. It's huge. I think the keeping it anonymous 951 01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,079 only helps them, and that's why I've been willing to be so loud. 952 01:16:13,199 --> 01:16:16,000 And I'm happy that there's other women out there like you that are willing to 953 01:16:16,119 --> 01:16:19,680 be loud. And I'm happy that there's other women out there like you that 954 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:24,960 are willing to be loud. And I think someone said this in another interview, 955 01:16:25,039 --> 01:16:29,119 but with sororities, hate the most is a loud woman. You're not 956 01:16:29,239 --> 01:16:35,399 wrong, that's their enemy. Yeah, that's the archphas being loud and transparent. 957 01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:45,479 They absolutely hate that. Yeah, Snapped, Well, Snappers, We've 958 01:16:45,560 --> 01:16:51,159 spent eight long episodes talking about this CULTI ship, and I think it's almost 959 01:16:51,199 --> 01:16:58,039 time to call this chapter meeting quits. I hope everyone listening, We'll keep 960 01:16:58,119 --> 01:17:02,680 being loud and transparent, rant about what you've learned in this podcast. Since 961 01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:08,680 Greek life is a business, it needs customers to survive, and speaking out 962 01:17:09,600 --> 01:17:16,199 is how we get to those customers. Our voices are our power, especially 963 01:17:16,279 --> 01:17:24,199 when it comes to exposing organizations that need secrecy to survive. Our bravery to 964 01:17:24,479 --> 01:17:30,000 share our stories is our power. And I know it's hitting for so many 965 01:17:30,119 --> 01:17:32,439 the amount of dms I get. They're like saying, oh my god, 966 01:17:33,680 --> 01:17:41,920 every like we all need to make these private thoughts public because we all don't 967 01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:47,119 like it. As for the future of Snapped, no one knows, HBO, 968 01:17:47,399 --> 01:17:50,800 Hulu, Netflix, NPR, wondering next time you want to make Obama 969 01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:59,399 Rushdoc a real big budget expose, no filler ship, hit me up and 970 01:17:59,479 --> 01:18:02,760 we'll bring the house down. Or if a wealthy alone wants to fund a 971 01:18:02,880 --> 01:18:08,880 Snap season four, let's do it. Let's go. But until then, 972 01:18:10,119 --> 01:18:15,119 your girl needs to pay rent, put myself out there in the real world 973 01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:20,960 and observe sebrity world from afar, doing what I can, and rooting for 974 01:18:21,079 --> 01:18:31,520 those still involved to get the fuck out while Snappers until next semester. Snapped. 975 01:18:36,479 --> 01:18:42,640 This just in from Snapped headquarters. We've been ordered to cease and desist. 976 01:18:44,640 --> 01:18:54,119 Are you fucking kidding me? It's from the director of accountability all the 977 01:18:54,239 --> 01:19:00,640 way from Alpha FI International. The demands of the letter read, in a 978 01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:06,119 final effort to remedy this issue short of litigation, Alphahi International Fraternity demands that 979 01:19:06,239 --> 01:19:13,960 you immediately cease speaking out and holding yourself as a member of Alphahi International Fraternity. 980 01:19:15,079 --> 01:19:19,159 Cease utilizing the insignia, prest Greek letters, and other marks of the 981 01:19:19,279 --> 01:19:28,640 fraternity, including use of any insignia or marks spuriously similar to those of the 982 01:19:28,720 --> 01:19:35,000 fraternity. Seize any and all attempts to recruit unofficial members. Blah blave blave 983 01:19:38,119 --> 01:19:46,920 like what no one knows, No one, no sabers. We've all been 984 01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,920 wondering when this day would come. I mean, this letter came from the 985 01:19:51,159 --> 01:19:59,680 same leadership who allegedly was sending NDAs to a lumb volunteers after word was getting 986 01:19:59,720 --> 01:20:05,840 out about aphees racist recruitment practices. I found links about that on Greek chat 987 01:20:06,159 --> 01:20:12,399 and Reddit, which are both linked in the episode description if you want to 988 01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:17,920 check it out. But unfortunately for Alpha Fee and all other Greek letter organizations, 989 01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:24,760 the First Amendment exists, and I'm a bit who likes to use it. 990 01:20:26,079 --> 01:20:31,000 Don't let them scare you either. Speaking out factually about these organizations is 991 01:20:31,319 --> 01:20:38,880 a constitutionally protected activity. Just so y'all know, don't let them gas let 992 01:20:38,920 --> 01:20:42,479 you. I almost let them. I almost let them. My production supervisor 993 01:20:42,800 --> 01:20:46,680 had to keep telling me like this is this is not real, this is 994 01:20:46,760 --> 01:20:53,479 not real. But don't worry, snappers. We handled it. I mean, 995 01:20:53,560 --> 01:21:00,399 they were literally trying to send me to standards. But the most amazing 996 01:21:00,560 --> 01:21:02,479 part, and God bless for this part, God bless for this part. 997 01:21:03,840 --> 01:21:09,560 The best part about the real world is that you don't have to go by 998 01:21:09,640 --> 01:21:15,159 sorority World's rules and you don't need to listen to the director of accountability, 999 01:21:15,119 --> 01:21:20,399 even if what they say is on a PDF. As our friend Christine once 1000 01:21:20,520 --> 01:21:26,399 said like, oh, I'm smart, so I'm this like, okay, 1001 01:21:26,960 --> 01:21:30,680 that doesn't mean you have like any grounds to have authority over me. You're 1002 01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:34,960 a nice person, but why are you texting me about meeting with you to 1003 01:21:35,039 --> 01:21:41,000 fix my grace? Are you a fucking teacher? Do you have a PhD? 1004 01:21:42,159 --> 01:21:45,239 Are you a professor? But because then we can talk, But you're 1005 01:21:45,279 --> 01:21:50,800 just a nice girl who want a leadership position. And I go, you 1006 01:21:50,880 --> 01:21:56,119 know what, this is the third time you have called me into ta honor 1007 01:21:56,279 --> 01:22:00,199 with absolutely no evidence, and at this point it's both. So I'm not 1008 01:22:00,279 --> 01:22:03,279 going to deal with it anymore. And next time you call me back, 1009 01:22:03,359 --> 01:22:09,920 you better have cold hard truth. I never got called in again. Yeah, 1010 01:22:10,439 --> 01:22:19,119 that shit was ridiculous. Snapped for all post production updates. Make sure 1011 01:22:19,199 --> 01:22:24,520 you're following at Snaps the podcast on Instagram, and if you want to stay 1012 01:22:24,560 --> 01:22:30,399 in the loop with me Lucy, you can follow me at Lucy JT Underscore. 1013 01:22:30,399 --> 01:22:35,880 You guys are gonna miss my vocal Fries, so JK all you haters 1014 01:22:35,960 --> 01:22:39,399 you hate my vocal fried men have vocal fried to you. I never heard 1015 01:22:39,399 --> 01:22:45,199 you talk about that though. For all collaborations inquiries or to book me, 1016 01:22:45,319 --> 01:22:49,520 as a speaker. Go to snaps the podcast dot com. Also definitely subscribe 1017 01:22:49,560 --> 01:22:55,039 to the podcast itself. I do see some bonus episodes in the future. 1018 01:22:55,880 --> 01:23:00,239 I'm thinking of Q and A with the production supervisor of Snapped, Megan Thompson 1019 01:23:00,359 --> 01:23:05,920 aka my BFF, would be a wild ride. I'll be taking questions for 1020 01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:11,760 the Q and A on Instagram, so make sure you're following if you haven't 1021 01:23:11,760 --> 01:23:16,079 already, Please rate Snapped five stars or whatever you want to rate it and 1022 01:23:16,279 --> 01:23:19,720 leave a review. I'd love to hear what you thought about this season. 1023 01:23:26,199 --> 01:23:30,720 Thank you so much to Megan Thompson for supervising this project. You've answered every 1024 01:23:30,800 --> 01:23:33,760 question I've ever asked in my entire life, and it's been nothing less than 1025 01:23:33,760 --> 01:23:38,920 an honor. Thank you to Cameron Gore aka Cammy, who was the story 1026 01:23:39,079 --> 01:23:43,640 editor of this episode and has been my assistant through it all. Thank you 1027 01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:45,640 so much, Cammy, You've helped me more than you now. Thank you 1028 01:23:45,720 --> 01:23:50,439 to our audio engineer, Niel Gottlia. You all heard that sound quality. 1029 01:23:51,399 --> 01:23:58,119 Thank you so much to the interviewees who participated in this season. Coming together 1030 01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:05,680 felt like dare I say it true sisterhood. And last but not least, 1031 01:24:06,319 --> 01:24:13,039 thank you to me Lucy Taylor for hosting, editing, producing, and writing 1032 01:24:13,119 --> 01:24:15,920 this podcast. I can't believe I finished it. What do I do now? 1033 01:24:16,680 --> 01:24:26,159 Anyone hiring? I'm being serious, like, please message me. I'm unemployed.