Hello everyone, and welcome to the latest episode of Hardwood Knocks. This is
Dan and Adam coming to you live after the twenty twenty two NBA Draft.
You know, we were talking a little bit before we actually started this broadcast
and felt like, aside from the New York Knicks, this draft was a
little bit light on storylines, and perhaps that's because there weren't any like truly
egregious selections. I don't think there's any one player who we looked at him
and it's like, yeah, he went way too early. What in the
world was Team X thinking. It kind of went according to form, and
all of those big trades that were promised by the trade announcing powers that be
prior to the draft starting just didn't come to fruition. John Collins is still
in the Atlanta Hawks. No big names really got traded, unless you're still
considering Kemba Walker a big name. So it was just kind of it was
a string draft. How are you doing in the aftermath of it? Dan,
I am, you know, I probably shouldn't be gutted or surprised that
the Knicks were just a great, big ballish it, but I'm still I'm
fatigued from it. I'm tired of how many years do they have to do
that to you before you just like accept it. I look, this was
the straw, Like I think they should have prepped it for us last summer
the way that they acted, because they clearly read too much into twenty twenty
twenty one. But like until this point, the most unforgivable thing they probably
did under Leon Rose was either the first round pick swappery last year they rushed
to extend Julius Randall or giving Evan Fournier three guaranteed years when they gave two
to Alec Burks and nearly kne Well. That stuff was innocuous for the most
part, though. That is how I am doing? How are you doing?
Before we actually belly flop? And let's give some people from time to
maybe straggle in here. I'm good, I'm good. It's a long days
as always, between work and parent life, it's a it's always a lot.
But I always enjoy watching the draft, and I feel like I come
out of it the same way every year, no matter what kind of coverage
I'm doing. And it was more behind the scenes coverage this year than like
producing grades or editing live grades or anything like that. But it's like I
don't know who plays for what team right now, Like I have a general
sense, but really like if you if you made me play who he played
for right now, I would fail just as epically as Charles Barkley always does
perb me and where I'm employed. I'm not going to comment on Charles Barky.
You're not allowed to. I can now I did. As we wait
for people to come in, I want to take one minute to announce that
there are going to be some changes to the podcast. Adam is bidding us
quasi farewell. This is not a real farewell. He will still be back,
you know, probably once a month. Maybe. If he's itching to
come on more, we would be happy to have him. But he is
doing big things at sports casting. He is super important. I am upset.
I am sad. I think part of what makes me enjoy this podcast
so much is it was founded around a deep seated friendship and not just people
talking hoops. I'm going to miss that full disclosure to our listeners. There
was a couple of weeks where I was just dead set on ending the podcast.
It's a lot of work. I've never done it for the money.
I've done it to interact with you guys, just to have fun with this
and to I mean, you're kind of irrelevant if you don't have a podcast
and you're a full time MBA writer. But still the podcast will go on,
though I am still in the process of and have already found some people
who are willing to be reoccurring guests, just so that I'm not constantly doing
solo pods or having a find you know, it'd be It's nice to know
when you have a co host. I'm gonna do episode with person X.
I'm trying to make sure that this podcast will have that once a week,
and then I can the other episode or two a week that we do to
get to two or three episodes per week. There'll be solo mailbags, there'll
be other guests. If listeners I've said this in Discord a Bunch join our
Discord Thinks in the podcast description and the YouTube description if you have recommendations of
who you would like to hear on the podcast. I'm a very big fan
of getting people who are I feel weird saying this because I'm not well known,
but I want people who don't get enough shine. I feel like this
podcast is relentlessly underrated, and I want two more people who are relentlessly underrated
as guests, if they cover a specific team the league get large. You
can feel free to message me in discord. I'm on Twitter at dan fa
Valley at a VLI. The handles actually on the screen, so I wanted
that quick note. This is not bond voyage. Adam and I are still
going to be friends. He's still going to come on the podcast. Who
knows where this takes us. Maybe one day he will be on the podcast
again, or it'll be for all we know, it could be under the
sportscast thing umbrella or something. I haven't ruled anything out. Adam, as
far as I know, hasn't ruled anything out. Like I said, I
am sad, but I heart him forever and I will miss him. But
he's not actually anywhere. But I did want to just say that so the
listeners know where we were at, and also I did have questions of okay,
well where is Adam? And it's good to know that people were listening
to the extent that they knew that you weren't coming on the show as recently.
I was gonna say, like, I'm sure that Anyone who has followed
the podcast closely is not too surprised by this, And it was a very
difficult and bitter sweet decisions, as Dan knows for sure, and I'm glad
that I'll at least be welcomed back and like the recurring guest role as weird
as it's going to be to not do the introduction. But yeah, sometimes
life just gets a little bit too busy. The brief explanation is that with
a three and a half year old, and then I was unexpectedly promoted into
a managing editor role at Sportscasting, so I'm spending so much time doing you
know, ideation processes and trying to solve issues and brainstorm things and whatnot that
I just I felt like I did not have the mental bandwidth to come up
with the brainstorming that we needed here, or to give Dan the support that
he needed from a cohot So it was tough, but stepping down out of
love for the podcast, and we're basically moral stories. I'm very angry with
Adam, and there is discord always, but let's actually talk about the NBA
draft now that we've given people some time to straggle in here. I think
we actually lost listeners while going through that. But that's okay. We have
to start with the Knicks, which is just like there was. I mean
this, well, actually we should start with the surprise at the top draft.
All right, We'll start with the Knicks. I don't understand what they're
doing anymore. They to me, they suck. They are hopeless franchise that
will never get out of their own way. They are unsuited to change for
more than a season or two at a time. They lull fans into thinking
that maybe they're acting normal, and I think they did sort of at the
start of the Leon Rose era. I actually wrote an article about the New
York's Knicks looking like they reformed. Never again will that happen? Definitely not
with this regime. Their mode of operations on Draft night was complicated, but
Tim bond Temps tweeted it out. The Knicks traded the eleventh pick to okay
See. They took Usmanjang. Okay See gave the Knicks three first round picks,
the Nuggets in two thousand and twenty three, Detroit's in two and twenty
three, Washington's in two thousand and twenty three. They are all heavily protected
until Kingdom come. I would estimate that all of them will convey at some
point, but I do think that Washington pick has a chance of not conveying.
The Knicks then traded Denver's two and twenty three pick and four seconds to
Charlotte for the thirteenth pick. They then traded the thirteenth pick with Kemba Walker
who's on an expiring contract to Detroit for that Milwaukee two twenty five first.
So they finished. They're not net plus three picks here, but they're still
they had their plus two picks, and they're still they could have had three
picks on the night. Wherever you want to frame this. They're leaving this
draft night with three future first rounders, which is not like this colossal loss.
But what they did on draft night was colossally clarifying because, as Mark
ste noted, as everyone under the sun noted, this move gets them to
a certain amount of cap space. The numbers my projections must be off because
people have them at eighteen. I have them in like fifteen ish. Regardless,
they are still one salary dump away from affording Jalen Brunson, who is
expected to get between twenty plus million up to twenty five million per year.
Jay Fisher a Bleacher Report reported on his Please Don't Aggregate This podcast, which
apologies then for aggregating that that the Brunson's return to Dallas has been painted as
sort of this basically a done deal. I would assume that after the Knicks
hired Rick Brunson, Jalen's father, and jumped through all these hoops, those
are things that they wouldn't have done. And I know that Rick Brunson already
had ties to the Knicks. YadA, YadA, YadA. Leon Rose is
also Jaalen's former agent. I believe you don't go through these steps unless you
think you have at least a chance. And so the best case scenario is
that Knicks get their guy, in which case they will have given let's say,
twenty five million dollars a year to a non star who neither accelerates nor
is good enough as good as he is to define their timeline. And this
is detrimental ass thinking. That is where I'm at. It's I know some
more optimistic people have portrayed this as, oh, the Knicks are loading up
on future picks for a trade. No, like these picks are not sexy
enough to be that Detroit's twenty twenty three. First, it's it's what I
think top eighteen protected. The Washington twenty twenty three. First, it's protected
through twenty twenty six, and it does get a little loosey goosey. It's
like there's a chance in theory that it get you get to a point where
it's top eight protected. These are not sexy picks that Milwaukee pick in twenty
twenty five. I'm gonna call it now. If that thing is higher or
I don't know how to frame this, if it's better than twenty second overall,
I'll be floored. You gave up on two lottery picks. I'm not
saying you could have had two lottery picks, though the asking price suggestion you
could have if you really wanted to. But you punted on two separate lottery
selections, which is not a luxury you have. You do that when you're
the Knicks are on the precipice of absolutely fucking nothing. They just finished eleventh
in the Eastern Conference. If you signed Jalen Brunson, guess who your best
player is, Jalen Brunson. Unless Julius Randall has sort of this renaissance,
which I would I don't know why anyone would bank on that at this point,
to be honest with you, maybe RJ. Barrett pops. And even
if RJ. Barrett pops, which I won't roll out, I was lower
on RJ. Barrett to start his career. I was clearly wrong. You've
short circuited some of your flexibility moving forward if you've paid Jalen Brunson, Julius
Randall's extension kicks in RJ. Barrett Hello's extension as will right now, this
is just really near sighted short circuitry by the Knicks, and it's there is
no justification behind this right now. And I'm not really surprised, like I'm
deadenly hollowed to what this franchise does, but this was like it took a
special lack of self awareness to do this. The Knicks do not understand how
to build or act like an actual basketball team, and I think fans should
be absolutely positively livid. And the final thing I'll say is, this is
not a move that is some harmless, innocuous slap dashery. This is the
type of move, the type of thinking that should cost the people in charge
their fucking jobs. This is unforgivable, inexplicable. I am heated Knicks fans
should be heated there. Who. I don't know why you ever look at
this team and think that they're ever going to climb outside the sub middle of
the NBA right now, because all they've constantly done is everything possible to stay
exactly there. So, first of all, I hope that that was at
least somewhat cathartic for you, because there was some passion in there. Second
of all, the rage, I don't really know if it's following this.
Whatever it was live during the draft was wild. Just no one knew what
the details were, how it was going to play out, whether New York
was getting players or giving up players, who was going to whom. It
was just it was a mass all the way around because these deals were so
complicated and the details just like slowly trickled out for hours and hours. Third
of all, the optimistic view here I think is, hey, at least
the Knicks got more picks that they can use to foster future salary dumps like
Jalen Brunson, because you said, the best case scenario here is that they
end up getting Jalen Brunson at like twenty five million dollars a year. Is
that really the best case scenario? Is them having that contract on the books
for another mediocre team actually the best case scenario? Or is it better for
them if they miss out on him in this newly freed up tap space just
goes to waste or is used inexplicably on a more short term buy, Because
I might argue that the latter is better because Jalen Brunson looked awesome as a
number two to Luca don Chich in the playoffs, and the Knicks sure as
hell do not have a Luca donche and are banking on a remarkably small sample
size from a breakout player who we don't really know yet has staying power.
And Jalen Brunson has a lot of fun elements to his game. He can
put pressure on the basket, he can create his own looks, he's good
off the ball. He profiles as a good number two, you know,
maybe even a number three on a true title contender, because frankly Dallas was
short of being a title contender even with Jalen Brunson and Luca don Chich playing
at a high level during the postseason. So, like, is it the
best case scenario to have him aboard as either your number one or your number
two to either RJ. Barrett or Julius Randall, Because I don't think it
is. I think so that their ideal plan just makes them worse, you
know, not necessarily worse the short term, but even further from actually being
a legitimate contender. It's yeah, it's them treading in place. And also,
the one pushback I'll give you is that if they don't get Jalen Brunson,
They're gonna go out and get Malcolm Brockton, and that would arguably be
a worse outcome given Malcolm Brockton's injury history. So but maybe at least that
injury history would manifest itself again and they could get a better pick of their
own until they trade that away. I just don't. I don't know what
the justification is here. And look, I don't if anyone wants to throw
in the fact that, oh, Kyrie is looking like he wants to get
out of Brooklyn, the amount of money that the Knicks needed clear if they
actually wanted to sign him, it is substantially more to get up to I
think it's about forty two point seven million for him to get up to.
That's gonna take salary dumps, that's gonna take more pick equity, and you
should not be hitching any part of your wagon to Kyrie Irving. At this
point, I think I'm with you in the cent there's occasionally they could be
worse off with Jalen Brunson at least though there's like a known quantity there of
what's coming with the Knicks, Whereas if you don't get Jon Brunson, literally
anything else is on the table, and that's it's just like, congrats on
your best case scenario being a first round punching bag for the foreseeable future and
awesome, great job. This also, and I totally understand that there could
still be like what happens if some of these picks are now rerected to Dallas
as part of some sign in trade for Jalen Brunson, because this also feels
like it shows an ignorance to how NBA teams are built right now, where
it's if they're not organic, where you're drafting them and maybe finding them when
they're you know, their values are down. No one's just leaving in free
agency anymore of this magnitude. Players are getting their money and then trying to
figure out how to leave later. And if they are leaving, it's because,
guess what, at this point, they're non stars. And I know
Jalen Brunson's case is is just unique with the way he's deal ended up working
out with the Mavericks, and Jalen Brunson is really really good. He kept
the Brunson short. He is a phenomenal number two on a good team.
He's just he's not the guy. And look, I would argue because I'm
saying Kyrie Irving isn't even that guy. There are very few guys to where
you should be just trying to clear the deck and burning through I don't want
to say assets, because the Knicks didn't burn through a ton of assets here,
but they cost themselves opportunities and as a team that just finished eleventh in
the East and still doesn't have I like Emmanuel Quickly, I like I love
RJ. Barrett, Quentin Grimes, Deuce McBride. I'm a little lower on
Obi Toppin and I think if the consensus Knicks fan base, you still don't
have the star and the guaranteed star in the making. R. J.
Barrett is as close as you come, and that's just not close enough if
you're looking to enter the upper echelon of the East. So I understand that
there's more to team building than winning a title, but like you need to
have a direction and aim, any sort of coherence with which you operate,
and the Knicks just don't. And it's it's tiring, like this is just
a franchise that is never going to get out of its own way. And
I don't even understand, Like what I don't even understand what they're looking at
Jalen Brunson and seeing. And look, the other thing is like there should
be an investigation here one percent if the Knicks get Jalen Brunson after hiring his
dad to Tips's coaching staff. I know there are deeper ties there, but
like, come on, like I think Jalen Brunson rules, well, Rake
didn't Rick Brunson come out in a timcmail article and was basically saying, like
I've already told Leon that, like there's no guarantee that Jalen's coming. It's
like that conversation shouldn't have legally been happening. And I know it does.
But this is just like what kind of Johnny, and the chat says Kyrie
is coming. I would you prefer that to Jalen Brunson fro like Kyrie going
to the Knicks, right, Because I don't think Jalen Brunson will submarine the
Knicks from within. The Knicks will submarine themselves. But Kyrie Irving and the
Knicks like in the same being taught in one another. That would be an
exercise and dual self sabotage. So I'm I don't know that I have any
other words this other than you can tell me. Maybe there's scenario on which
this pans out, does another star become available that they're because look, Brunson,
cant what asset equity do you have to trade here for an actual star?
Johnny? I'm a Nets fan and enjoy Yeah, I just I actually
just wrote this, Janmen, Brunson can be your number two if your number
one is a top ten guy in the NBA and the Knicks don't have that,
I don't know what their pathways to getting him unles Vin Durant decides he
wants to leave the Nets for the Knicks, and even if that he has
four years left on his deal. If I'm Brooklyn, I know it's weird
to grow backbone now after you just bent over for him and Kyrie Irving all
these years, I would send him wherever the hell I wanted. That's just
gonna give me the best the best offer. And you know I'm pretty pro
player when it comes to this stuff. So I just don't I'm even trying
to think of a counter argument to what you and I just laid out of
how this could all work out. I don't. I don't have one.
I couldn't have nothing I can even argue. Let's say RJ. Barrett develops
into a perennial All Star that the Knicks have kind of just marginalized the next
three to four years of his career at least. I mean, I guess
like, if you go this non cynical, true best case scenario route,
they're getting Jalen Brunson. RJ. Barrett pans out quickly becomes a good source
of offense Toppin looks good, Julius Randall returns to previous levels, You're still
not really a title contender, and then you have three picks in the coming
years that are gonna fall in like the twenties. You get a few dart
throws, maybe you hit on one, but still like that hinges on everything
going right and what in the last six decades has convinced us that things are
going to go right for the New York Knicks. I got him for you
there on either you want to move on to a happier topic. Absolutely,
how the top three ended up shaking out just in the sense Palo ben Caro
going number one. I don't know if you saw Wednesday night, it was
basically overnight the NBA draft markets just shifted. The betting odds were so volatile,
right and liked what happened there. I actually I like the way it's
I thought Palabankarro was the number one player on on my board when I get
like knee deep in the draft. I actually also think this helped out the
Rockets because I could see Jabari Smith Junior being a better fit next to Shangoon
since Jabari Smith just profiles is a more versatile defender. I think, and
people mentioned this. These were three guys who were all considered potential number one
picks, But to end up with any of them, it's just like you
end up. I don't think anyone necessarily lost this Just what did you make
of that last minute shift? And is there anything else? Like I know
some people painted it like is this a win or a loss for the NBA
draft betting markets, because it's like it was kind of shady how it all
went down, and then it's like okay, but there probably were people that
took Paolo when he was like I saw him at plus seven forty five.
I saw him a plus two thousand, So you could have technically lost a
lot of money there, But it was just weird that you had woes even
as the markets were shifting coming out and say no, no, it's it's
Jabari And then you know he Weatherman's it up by like just sort of changing
his position as the as the climate change. Honestly, I don't I don't
pay enough attention to the betting stuff to really like have a take on what
it means other than it was interesting to follow and that it seemed like the
betting markets one out over the news breakers. I don't really know what that
means. If it was just like a bunch of sharps, or if there
was leaked information that not everyone had access to, or something shady going on,
but it's it's just to me. It's another piece of the puzzle that
you can pay even more legitimate attention to in future years. But as as
for the order of the top three, my board was slightly different than yours,
where I did have Chet home Grind number one and then Pala Bean Caro
number two. I did have Jaden Ivy number three and then Jabari Smith Junior
number four, where Smith is the only one of those guys who I'm like
legitimately a little bit worried about because as as appealing as the pull up jumpers
are and the defensive versatility is, I don't see the shot creation and the
ability to attack the rim. He doesn't draw fouls. He's shot forty three
point five percent from inside the arc against a significantly lower caliber of athlete on
the defensive end in the SEC compared to the NBA, So I can see
some struggles for that offensive game to pan out where instead of looking like the
Kevin Durant comparison, he's going to be more like Al Harrington Marvin Williams kind
of thing on the lower end, and that's selling him too short. Like
that's the worst case scenario. I think that you know, if he does
bust for lack of a better term, we're still looking at a guy who
has a long, productive NBA career as an important contributor, just without hitting
that level of stardom. I just see more upside with Chet Holmgren and Paolo
Bancaro, whose offensive versatility I just absolutely adored during my own evaluation process.
So I liked how this order panned out, where I still would have gone
with Holmgren at number one for Orlando. But I still think the Magic made
the right move by avoiding the lowest possible outcome in favor of a safer pick,
because ultimately, like the Magic, do still have a lot of mystery
box potential on that team where if things are clicking, there's a lot to
like about that up and coming team. Yeah, that's a good point,
and they do need I still am a big believer in Jail and Suggs,
but they're they're still in talent acquisition mode. Like Franz Wartner is going to
pan out. That's great. Wendell Carter Junior was fantastic for them. Jonathan
Isaac might be healthy this season. That's a big deal. I don't know
that you look at them and say, Okay, well there's our poll star
for the future, and so you need to take those swings there. What
did you make of I made jokes on Twitter. I actually, in theory
didn't have much of a problem with the King's taking Keegan Murray a four,
But just what did you make of? The reflective response is going to be
they should have traded down and gotten value for that. You don't know if
they were too willing to give them anything. I think from my perspective,
what's tough for me to wrap my head around. They're like I would have
went with the higher upside there if you if if you think Key Murray is
gonna be better then jay n iivy that is fine. The Kings, though,
have not earned the benefit of the doubt on this subject. I respect
them for going the route that they wanted to, but they haven't they've earned
whatever doubt is coming their way. I still would have. This just feels
like a situation where they might have been catering too much to fit And it's
unless they really think that if Key Murray was the best player on their board,
that's gonna and he is a really good fit. By the way,
like those we could have been because he was almost a consensus top five prospect.
I do wonder how much Jay Nivy sort of stirring himself trying to steer
himself outside of Sacramento played a role. And I just I'm kind of done
with Sacramento, like just bending to like the win that like at points like
Luca Donte stuff way back when we don't need to rehash that. But just
I this is either gonna be something where maybe this is the turning point because
oh the Kings didn't try and outthink themselves they want with who they believe the
best player is, or they almost played it too safe and prioritize fit over
upside. I would have just taken Jade and Ivy and figured it out later
with the Aaron Fox and Sabonis. That that's what I would have done.
Honestly, I didn't have that much of a problem with it because to me,
if you are looking to trade down and capitalize on the interest in Jade
and Ivy, you're most likely putting yourself out of position to get Kegan Murray,
who is a good fit with that Dear and Fox to Montes Sabonis core
that ultimately looked better than expected at the tail end of the twenty twenty two
season. I don't know how long the Kings are going to keep the window
open for that core, so I don't really mind them prioritizing a guy who
you don't have to just bank on the talent and figure it out, and
if it doesn't work, we're hitting the reset button yet again on an experiment
that actually looked promising. So I think it makes sense from a beleaguered franchise's
perspective in that we finally have some positive momentum, Let's not take the bigger
swing and figure it out on the fly. Let's instead compound what we already
have going and make those continued strides that can amplify the growth of everyone else
on the roster, because I think that's essentially what Keegan Murray can do as
a versatile prospect who adds the shooting that that lineup needs, whereas Ivey,
you know what, if he is taking the ball away from Fox and Sabonis
a little too frequently and there are so many growing pains that you start to
doubt the feasibility of that core that once looked promising. So given the hierarchy
in this draft, where there seemed to be like some fairly steep drop offs
after that point. I would put mathorin in that same tier where I actually
had him above Murray on my board, but beyond Tim, like beyond that
top six, you're looking at a lower caliber of prospect in this draft.
So if you're trading down for what exactly if you do think that you have
a good fit. So, I don't know the last time I like truly
defended the Sacramento Kings, and I don't think that they like really really maximized
the asset they had under their control. But I also totally get why they
went that direction, which I think I think either take is fair at this
point. My my my overarching stance was the Kings are gonna get dragged.
I'm not sure that they fully earned it, but they definitely deserve it because
they're the Kings. I also think the way that you look at this is
perfectly reasonable, and it's going to take a few years before we know that.
Being said, how about them Pistons leaving this draft like with Jawn durn
and Jade and Ivy, Oh my god, and you still have a crack.
You can still get to max room after waving or buying al Kemba Walker.
You can wave and stretch him if you really want. I'd rather just
give them where they're at in their development. I would just pay that entire
salary. It almost feels like a foregone conclusion that they're gonna make the big
offer sheet for Miles Bridges and probably get him. I actually like his fit
now thirty six hours ago. I mean a lineup, a lineup with him,
Sadiq bay Jalen Duran, Jaden Ivy and Kid Cunningham amazing. And you
still have other pieces in play on these rookie scale contracts, you know,
Killian Hayes and Isaiah Stewart. There there's a lot of a lot of intriguing
potential in Detroit right now. Yeah, they're gonna be if Miles Bridges is
on that team, They're gonna be a league past Darling. And this is
just like serious weaponry for Kade, someone who I trust, Jane and Ives.
I know the people that he's been compared to most like Derrick Rose,
Russell Westbrook, even Job, which I don't know that I see as much
in him. Of Jab. I trust his off ball offense more than the
first two guys. For sure, so you can work that route. But
to now give you another ball handler who's not killing Hayes for Kid Cunningham to
work off of, that's gonna go a long way. They have the tools
like between Kay Cunningham Sadique bay As, I guess Stewart is still there as
of now as far as we know. And then even like Jay and Ivy
feels like a guy who if he puts his physic like uses his physical tools
on defense, that team can be incredibly disruptive. Now with Jalen Duran there
giving him a big, Kay Cunningham a big and Jayn Duran and even Jay
and Ivy like that, I'm I'm so excited to watch this team. And
I know people were underwhelmed by the Jeremy Grant trade. The two things I
pointed out when we discussed when I discussed that with myself was if you're mad,
it's you have to be mad because you think they could have done better
at the trade deadline or last offseason. I have no doubt they could have
gotten a ton last offseason. But we don't need these rebuilding teams to be
like body farms for tenders after one year. Like that's gonna Why would players
want to go with you, go sign with you, even if you're paying
them giving them more prominent role if you'll just turn around and flip them after
a year. And then also look what they ended up doing with that trade,
Like they create cap space, but then they also use that first round
pick to go out and get a lottery pick, like and alls it costs
you was a little bit of cap space and a first round or that again,
if it's twenty three, if it's that high twenty two, I would
be very surprised. I can't wait to watch them, and I think I
think they're the biggest winners of the draft. It's them or okay see,
by the way, because the fact that and shout out to the Carrigan for
mentioning this in the chat. Okay see, Like consolidating first is a big
deal. It was none of the elite. First, they didn't get a
star, but like they just decided that they want Ushman Jang on this team
that's already after getting Chet home Grim, they had a really interesting draft.
They could be like big and really feisty next. I think that's what's so
fun about this okay se construction too is that they have so many players who
can fill so many different roles and become so many different things. I mean,
like, I'm not ready to give up on Alexei Pokashevski becoming something cool
in the NBA, and Chet Holmgren kind of fills the same kind of bucket
where you know, we don't know what he's going to be because he is
another guy in that unicorn mold where he could feel basically any roles. So
you add to that that all of a sudden, you still have a ridiculous
boatload of picks that you can use to go out and get a star player
of any type when they become available. So it feels like, okayc has
just maintained such an impressive level of malleability while still acquiring so much talent.
It's really hard not to just love the style of roster construction they've they've put
together. I'm I just that's gonna be another fascinating team for me, and
I was already more fascinated with them than the I think the average person at
this point. But I love chet Homegren there. I know you said he
was your number one pick. I think the Oka City was my favorite fit.
For him though, and not because Kendrick Perkins said that he's the love
child of Chris Stops and Janie. That was just like shout out to Molika
Andrews, by the way for saving that broadcast. And I like how she
was wildly entertaining, very insightful, ask good questions. I also thought like
she was saving Perk from himself because she would mentioned about these players, Okay,
he's wearing an Oklahoma City thunder hat or Knicks happened, He's not going
to the Knicks like just before Perkins would talk because there I think there was
one occasion where he was talking about a player to fit on a team that
had been traded. I don't remember the actual player, so shout out to
her, but those two teams stood out. Were there any other teams that
stood out to you throughout this entire process? Then I think after that we
definitely need to get in to the move that weren't made aka John Collins.
My two favorite picks of the draft were Mark Williams going to the Charlotte Hornets
at number fifteen. I just I loved love that fit. Just a dominant
interior defender, really good in drop coverage. Maybe not too laterally quick,
but that might not matter given the ridiculous reach and size and athleticism that he
has. Also with a bit of a blossoming offensive game, so I could
totally see him thriving as an open court and pick and roll threat alongside LaMelo
Ball. He totally transforms that team's defense. I see a little bit of
Rudy Goberton him whenever I watched him at Duke. I know that's a really
lofty comparison, but I absolutely loved him as a prospect. The other favorite
pick I had in the draft was Christian Coloco. Going to the Toronto Raptors
at number thirty three really fits the mold that we know Toronto loves, which
is the athleticism and the length. Just another guy who didn't start playing basketball
until I believe he was like twelve, didn't take it seriously until fifteen,
didn't stop playing soccer competitively in seventeen, so we're still seeing a lot of
late developing growth to his game, much in the vein of like Pascal Siakam,
and already during his last year at Arizona, you could see just how
good he could be on both ends of the floor. There's a developing jumper
that's really convincing. There's so many, many, many examples of great defensive
instincts and the ability to utilize that length. I just I feel like Toronto
keeps doing everything it can to make sure that you and I absolutely adore that
roster. I will say, I don't think they're obsession with maybe getting a
big like a trading for one. I don't necessarily understand, but I'm with
you overall there too. Colin asked with the Pistons drafting during who becomes a
favorite to sign Aton Spurs Atlanta, I want to make one thing clear.
The Hawks should not be going after DeAndre Ayten. No, no, not
and John Collins still on the roster. This isn't a shot of Colin that
this has been something that's the rounds Phoenix Sun. Twitter was mad at me
the other day because I said, if you have to trade John Collins for
DeAndre and let's say was what they proposed, and then you're saying that they
will turn around and then move one er Cappella at least or Okungu as a
result, you're not better, Like even if you think DeAndre is the best
player of those four, which he could be. I think there's probably debates
in there. You're not better, I would say I think the Spurs now
and one of the worst kept secrets in the league at this point. And
you can just read between the lines and the way this has been reported.
DeAndre Eton really wants to go to the San Antonio Spurs, but now that
the Pistons are sort of off the table, I can't even think of like
a dark horse for him. If Charlotte wanted to get involved in some sign
and trade stuff, but they've already kind of played some of their their better
hands in that regard. That's another yea right, oh yeah, I forgot
about that. Also, speaking of teams that don't know how to run themselves,
I did Charlotte get enough compensation? I guess if you still ended up
with Mark Williams, you're fine. But that was a really weird It was
weird. But I think the explanation from the organization that came out during draft
night was that they just they're in wind now mode and in getting better mode,
and they weren't going to do that by adding two rookies. So I
think knowing that you were going to have access to Williams two picks later allowed
you to potentially take a package that was a little bit less appealing. I
want to shout out the bucks here and we'll see if they play him or
stick with him moving forward. I love mar Jeann Brochamp. Him and Dyson
Daniels were the players that I fell in love with and was much higher on.
Bryce McGowan was there too. I was actually shocked at how low he
fell. But mar Jehan Brochamp, I'm not the best person to ask about
this, but I look at the jumper, the form, and even the
I won't say it's fast, but the speed at which he's releasing him,
I think he's going to be fine. And so you give sort of the
rim pressure that he's going to provide you away from the ball, a couple
of how you can move them around defensively. It feels like they were taking
a swing because I feel like his ninetieth percentile above outcome is way more idealistic
than people were giving credit. I don't think he could be a superstar,
whereas I could see Dyson Daniels being like, I just feel like he could
end up being an all star. Like into that discussion. I love that
pick for the Bucks. I wanted to see the Nuggets where they made the
Jamchael Green trade. I thought he was a great fit there, But I
think the Bucks are also kind of sneaky winners here. Did you have any
thoughts really quickly about oh and the other winner? Shout out to the Sixers.
You cut your payroll while getting better, So I'm not we don't need
to celebrate them, but you also can because when it's when you're cutting money
to actually open up more money. And what they're trying to do for anyone
who wants to know or doesn't necessarily understand, they want to access the non
taxpayers Midlevel Exception in addition to the biannual exception while keeping James Harden. This
move alone doesn't allow them to do that, but they've cut their payroll,
making it a little bit easier for them to access at least the non tax
payers midlevel exception. You got rid of Danny Green, who I still think
he's just like unfairly criticized the Ton, but he tore his left ACL and
LCL last year. He wasn't going to play for you this season in all
likelihood, and he is older for Deanthe Melton, who gives you like a
point of attack defender who can also guard up and he's turned into a three
indeed guard essentially, which you don't see much of in the NBA. The
past two years. He's hit his threes and he's working a ton off the
ball for the most part. I don't you don't want him running your offense,
but now you're just not depending at all on Shake Milton essentially. So
having Melton, Maxi Harden and B Tobias Harris there like you, there's a
nice base in Philly. And again, I think this acts and service of
them. They didn't even have to get rid of Flyball, although I just
I'm kind of out on him at this point, someone who has not improved
at all since he came into the league. But I really liked that move
for them, and I really like Melton. Then the other thing, too
is I don't like looking at it in these terms. It's a very team
friendly deal. Eight point three million next season and then only one point five
and guaranteed the following season on an eight million dollars salary. That becomes if
you need. They lacked middle run contracts to go out and make trades with
now at least you have a useful player who actually play, whereas Danny Green
probably wasn't going to play this season if you need to make other deals in
the middle of the year. So I really liked what the Sixers did there
your thoughts on that, and also what you like Memphis was just sneaky kind
of smart. Again too, there was the initial thought was oh, twenty
nine and twenty two for nineteen, but then they end up getting number twenty
three from Philly anyway, and it's like given one that you ended up with
thy Thy Washington. I liked that swing. It's insurance against Tyas Jones leaving
in free agency. I don't want to say that dfthy Melton was redundant,
but he is still a defense first player and you have enough of those on
your roster and Kyle Anderson, Dylan Brooks, etc. I also liked the
Philadelphia move. I think Melton fits really nicely with that roster, and it
was a good use of money, as you mentioned, unlike the Atlanta Hawks,
where I just I think it's so unforgivable to ever sell a second round
pick in today's NBA, and like granted they sold it to also you get
a later second round pick. But just take the dart throw, even if
it doesn't hit like that is your chance of securing a guy for a long
time who as upside, who you can develop in the G League, who
you can develop on a two way contract, and you are depriving yourself of
a chance to be competitive. That said, I liked what Atlanta did overall
in the night for two reasons. One A j Griffin. You know,
getting him at sixteen is a coup. It's it's at least partially driven by
the concerns over his knees. But if he is healthy, the defensive versatility
that he brings in the three point shooting in a lineup with Trey is phenomenal.
That was a dream get for the Hawks, who I would bet going
into the draft they might have imagined they would have to trade up to get.
And speaking of trades in the Hawks, I think they're also winners for
not caving and trading John Collins. I've liked the de Gante Murray package as
long as there's not too many first round picks going to San Antonio in such
a deal, just because he is such an ideal fit alongside Tray. But
other than that, I do not get this seeming insistence to move Collins,
who is actually a good fit on this roster. It just it doesn't make
any sense. So I'm glad. Whether it was because Atlanta came to its
senses and decided not to trade a fringe all star for a diminished package,
or because it just couldn't find a package that actually piqued its interest. Regardless,
John Collins, unexpectedly is still han the Hawks roster coming out of the
twenty twenty two NBA Draft, and to me, that makes the Hawks winners.
Here really quickly shaming you for not correct me. The Grizzlies, I
lost tracked to not get ty Ty Washington. They traded that pick, I
said, I still am trying to figure out who's on whose team. So
they had and we had the question asking how many rookies they ended up with.
So they have Jake la Ravia, and they have David Roddy and who
else did they end up with? I don't even see Kennedy Chandler. I
thought that was a very interesting pick by them when I saw that come out
whilst I was writing. I think they ended up with three rookies unless they've
signed any Two ways or something, and to the question of why did they
end up with so many rookies. This is just a team that I think
if everyone wanted them to make a consolidation trade, they were going to do
the exact opposite. They're very invested in draft and development, and I do
believe that they seem concerned with, well, how are we going to keep
this cord together? Jaren Jackson Junior has been paid, will they extend Steven
Adams? Andersis in pree agency, Tis Jones is in free agency, and
John Morant is gonna his new deal is gonna kick in within a couple of
years. So yeah, I liked what I like. Memphis's confidence in itself
is basically what I'm saying there, and I give no reason to not be
confident in themselves. At this point, I will say to the Hawks thing,
I'm with everything you said. I think John Collins has become one of
the most underrated players in the NBA at this point. We can talk about
his limitations, but how about how he's actually managed to be a really high
impact offensive player while not out of having the freedom that he out of curiosity.
What are those limitations because he's not he's not like a game changing rim
protector. We've seen a lot of defensive improvement from him over his time in
Atlanta. Where he has enough ability to maintain position on the perimeter, he
can be an impactful help defender. Again, like not a game changing all
defensive caliber stopper by any stretch of the imagination, but like not really a
glaring weakness for him anymore. Right, And he's as Collins says, the
Grizzlies had four rookies. I mean, we'll see how many of these guys
end up on the second round pick specifically end up up. Maybe they'll end
up on two ways. I know there was an anticipation and a lot of
second rounders will be on two ways this year. Yeah. I the people
per or YouTube commenters and then mad people that were angry with me on Twitter,
like his floor game actually isn't all that good, And I actually think
it's better than people realize, in part because he's not empowered to break it
out enough and someone who has some directionality when he's gonna put the ball on
the floor at his size. No, I don't want him posting up if
that's what you're looking for from him. I'm just this is someone who has
adapted really well over the past two seasons where they took away stripped him of
primary screen or duty essentially, like, yeah, he's still going to set
a ton of screens, but when you're playing with Capella, like you're no
longer the primary room runner. I think he's been sneaking for them on the
offensive glass at points as well. And you mentioned there's defensive improvement. His
biggest issue might be that he's a one position defender and it has to be
against a certain archetype of player. But I would also argue if you put
him on a team that has more defensive talent in front of him, that
you can probably steal more minutes with him at the five. Ultimately, no
one in this Atlanta system is going to look that good on defense right now
because the infrastructure is just not in place. I loved that they were linked
to and I didn't get a chance to talk about this, and it's a
move that wasn't made the John Day Murray rumors that the Spurs were entertaining offers
on him, and so the first time I've heard a package where I can
get behind it with Collins on the way out, that's the type that like,
you need that player who even if some people think John Collins is better
in a vacuum, and I don't think most people would, shouldn't you're making
your team better, And that's what I said. I wasn't sure how the
Hawks get better by moving Collins because that player where you're who's worth attaching other
assets to Collins needs to be out there. And as it stands right now,
I think you can make the case for Rudy Gobert is and this is
based off the reporting on who we think is available. Rudy Gobert and there's
Murray and then it's like the John Collins for Harrison Barnes stuff. I thought
it was weird for both teams. I somehow think that the Hawks might be
better in the short term or at least have like better fitting. But Barnes
isn't a lockdown defender at this point and he very much needs to defend for
as I think for the most part too. And then I do not like
the idea of Collins and Domas in the same front court, and especially with
the lack of defensive talent around them. So but like right now, the
star trade market even and if you think Kevin Durant, Kyrie's available. Like
neither of those guys are going to Atlanta, although that'd be interesting is see
Kevin Durant in Atlanta if he did want to go there. That player needs
to be out there. And I think it's good that the Hawks didn't move
Collins. But my I guess this is the final question you need to touch
on. Is John Collins a member of the Atlanta Hawks to start next season?
Though at this point I think so. I just don't think the trade
market has materialized in a way that is going to compel them to move him
when they don't have to, and we're seeing it where consistently these players are
drawing lesser packages than anticipated. I don't think we would have predicted Jeremy Grant
goes for what he got back for Detroit going into the off season. It
just it doesn't seem like the market is there right then, right now,
so I would say that he does stay. I probably less optimistic than you.
But by the way, oh my actual finals draft, Fuck the Knicks
over the Knicks. I kind of really ridiculously liked the Spurs draft, at
least definitely their first two picks, and more specifically their second pick. Like,
I think that that was the way that Malachi Brandam was rising up draft
boards. Our friend of the podcast coach spins, not a believer in him,
but if you can just sort of roll the dice on someone who might
turn into this every level shot creator at twenty, why the hell not like
you had like first, you had another selection even after that. And also
Jeremy Swan's hair loved it. It's amazing. I hope he fully leans into
it and just goes full Dennis Rodman once he's actually in the NBA. I
actually really liked their their later picks even more. Blake Wesley and Kennedy Chandler
I think are really good backcourt depth down the road. I love Kennedy Chandler's
game, the athleticism that the quick hands, the defensive instincts, the shooting
ability. I thought that he was ali though they did flip Kennedy Chandler to
the Grizzlies, did they. That's what's showing up on my big open,
Like I said, who plays for who? Right now? The second rounrow
is learning all of that. Yeah, It's it's so tough when when prospects
are flying all over the place, well, I rescind everything about Kennedy Chandler,
but I maintained that I like I like Blake Wesley as a fit there,
unless he's no longer on the Spurs either, because who really knows.
I mean, technically, you know, there's no rookie scale for the second
rounders, who maybe maybe he's not. But I am seeing that it looks
like they kept him. So you're free to sort of wax poetic about him
if you, if you like I no longer have the confidence to do so.
Wait, you said Blake Wesley. I'm sorry he was twenty five.
He is. He's still on the Spurs too. I know nothing about Blake
Wesley, but this was fun FRO. We'll be talking to you again soon.
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time, Slash. As always, we leave with a shout out to the
One, the Only, Adam the legendary frammel Oh. I don't accept that.
I don't accept that because Dan has done so much for this podcast and
put so many, so much time, so much effort into making this a
thing and bring on fantastic lineups of guests and putting together creative concepts, and
pushing the platform forward on new places like TikTok, and building a YouTube presence
and the Discord channel that he is active in even when I can't be.
So if anyone deserves a shout out, it's him. But I also refuse
to accept a non traditional shout out on what's going to be my final episode
as a as a co host, So I need to rewind and do it
the right way this time so we can all agree. Shout out to the
one, the only, frank, motherfucking conference finalist, Neil Guina. There it is