WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.919 --> 00:00:10.800 Welcome to Sword and Scale Rewind with your hosts Matt Fondelier and Ian Bag. 2 00:00:39.679 --> 00:00:43.399 Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of Sword in 3 00:00:43.600 --> 00:00:48.520 Scale. Rewind that podcast about your other favorite podcast, Sword in Scale. 4 00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:51.880 I'm one of the hosts. I've written a couple episodes, but above all 5 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:55.079 else, I just love Sword and Scale. My name is Matt Fondelier. 6 00:00:55.439 --> 00:00:58.840 Very excited you're here with us, and very excited to be joined once again 7 00:00:59.119 --> 00:01:02.799 by my buddy I Bag. Hey about it? Howai about Hey? I'm 8 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:06.200 doing good. This is technically like our Christmas episode. I know it comes 9 00:01:06.200 --> 00:01:08.840 out in like January, but this story takes place on Christmas Eve, the 10 00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:14.079 Magical Christmas Story. Who doesn't love murder on Christmas Eve? Yeah, he's 11 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:17.640 screwed up. That's supposed to be an Easter story. Yeah, that's true. 12 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:21.319 They got the dates backwards. What the hell's having a baby on Christmas 13 00:01:21.319 --> 00:01:25.519 not having murder? Well, maybe we'll get into some of our Christmas traditions 14 00:01:25.560 --> 00:01:29.159 because it factors into the story a little bit. Okay, you know one 15 00:01:29.200 --> 00:01:32.640 of the victim, let's show up to Christmas morning. That was a big 16 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.640 flag. What's your Christmas tradition putting on a leather skirt and drone of fuck, 17 00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:41.599 I'm wearing them. But it's the twenty first century. If we all 18 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:46.040 have different traditions, Okay, you gotta respect them all. He hung them 19 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:49.000 upside down like it was hunting. Oh, terrible, brutal story. It's 20 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.560 a brutal story. But let's let's let's let's start off things easier. Sure, 21 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:57.159 I was on a plane the other day. I'm pretty sure somebody was 22 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:00.319 wearing one of Michael Boudet's shirts that don't comply shirt. Really yeah, and 23 00:02:00.400 --> 00:02:02.319 I want to I want to, I want to go up and say hey. 24 00:02:02.879 --> 00:02:06.200 But then he didn't have his nose in his mask, so I just 25 00:02:06.239 --> 00:02:09.199 like, I can't talk to that guy. He was kind of comparing. 26 00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.599 He was kind of good, all right, I'll keep my mouth in you 27 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:16.439 motherfucker's When you're on a plane like that, do you ever get harassed by 28 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:20.840 the stewardess is to pull it up a little bit, because I've heard, 29 00:02:20.919 --> 00:02:23.159 oh yes, I've heard from people like I was just trying to take a 30 00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:24.960 nap, you know, and then they woke me up and told me to 31 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:28.919 put my mask up. Um, A guy beside me the other day he 32 00:02:29.000 --> 00:02:31.080 was his mask fell off and he wasn't wearing it and they tapped him. 33 00:02:31.159 --> 00:02:35.120 Yeah, like but he was asleep, like it was mean and it was 34 00:02:35.240 --> 00:02:38.240 dark and he sat up and he's like, I don't know where it is. 35 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:40.840 I'll get you one. She won't. Wow. Yeah, which is 36 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:45.639 fair enough. I just I just crank up the air because apparently that's the 37 00:02:45.680 --> 00:02:47.400 best thing done not get COVID is just crank up the air. Oh, 38 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.159 really make sure it's not going. And I just I wear the airflow. 39 00:02:51.319 --> 00:02:54.400 Yeah. I wear an N ninety five Matt k N ninety five masks when 40 00:02:54.400 --> 00:02:59.240 I'm when I'm flying, and I feel safe on the planes. As far 41 00:02:59.280 --> 00:03:02.360 as what they said, the way the air circulates in a plane is the 42 00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:06.879 way it should circulate in most buildings now, So I just sort of circulate. 43 00:03:07.080 --> 00:03:12.520 I just sort of feel like we would be hearing about the just funeral 44 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.199 after funeral of airline stewardess in airline pop. Yeah they're doing but you don't 45 00:03:15.199 --> 00:03:17.360 even you don't hear that. Yeah, they get they get it, but 46 00:03:17.479 --> 00:03:21.919 it's it's not as as uh I'm and I'm guessing it to work, you 47 00:03:21.960 --> 00:03:25.360 have to be uh vaccinated so that's why, you know, vaccinating makes it 48 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:29.360 makes it much weaker the the whole. When I got it, I was 49 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:32.159 vaccinated, so yeah, made it much easier. So see, I'm not 50 00:03:32.280 --> 00:03:37.039 so great in that scenario because when I'm on an airplane, at least a 51 00:03:37.039 --> 00:03:38.400 couple of times I've been on a plane since all of this started, you 52 00:03:38.439 --> 00:03:43.439 cry the whole time. I know, I am nursing a water bottle and 53 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:46.080 eating pretzels. I'll do it the whole flight. Yeah, I'll do it 54 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:52.680 the whole fucking sucking on a pretzel first two hours. I mean, I 55 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:54.599 cut off your blood pressures. Crying because it's just been eating so much salt. 56 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:59.879 Yeah, exactly, exactly. Um, but yeah, I don't know. 57 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:01.759 I just you don't like wearing the masks. It's not really, it's 58 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:05.080 not nobody. Nobody likes it. I just don't. I'm just like, 59 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:06.919 whatever, what are you gonna do? Is just kind of like that thing. 60 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.400 I'm like, what, I'm respectful. I don't enjoy seat belts. 61 00:04:10.560 --> 00:04:13.759 Yeah that's true. I listen, I'm respectful about it. I'm not gonna 62 00:04:13.800 --> 00:04:16.079 be like, I'm not gonna be that guy. But I'm also gonna go 63 00:04:16.120 --> 00:04:19.199 ahead and enjoy that pretzel for a lot longer than normally would. Sorry, 64 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:23.000 I just am I can't help it. I think that's fair. I I 65 00:04:23.079 --> 00:04:28.480 just I just people losing their shit is just when I'm worried about lately. 66 00:04:28.680 --> 00:04:30.759 Yeah, I mean like there's too many I'm just like, ah, there's 67 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:35.040 too many people. Just I don't know if it's people that don't usually can't 68 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:41.879 afford to fly. Yeah, too cheap is what's It's so bizarre? Why 69 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:45.720 the fuck like people bringing on their own alcohol onto a plane. I'm like, 70 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:48.160 how the where the fuck are you getting the alcohol? Because I can't 71 00:04:48.199 --> 00:04:54.120 get my hand lotion through the fucking through through through security, So how are 72 00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:56.879 you getting a bottle of tequila there? Well, let me tell you something 73 00:04:57.240 --> 00:05:01.800 that they're called traveler bottles and are low enough that they can go through the 74 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:05.360 metal detector and they're less than like a tube of toothpaste or whatever. I 75 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.920 mean, I've just heard that you could bring travelers onto an airplane and talk, 76 00:05:11.360 --> 00:05:14.160 Yeah, what what do you drink? What are you? Um? 77 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:18.199 I think on a plane? My go to in the real world would be 78 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:21.959 like a gin? Uh really? Oh hell yeah, love me some gin? 79 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.240 My good surprised you're not on one of these fucking nine one one calls 80 00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:30.040 that they're making. Yeahs say thing me and my loather skirt on a plane. 81 00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:33.519 I'm thinking in terms of my mixers, and all I got are the 82 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:36.399 sodas that they're going to offer me. So I'm sticking to either some Jack 83 00:05:36.480 --> 00:05:40.680 Daniels to put into some coke, or I'll just take some vodka to put 84 00:05:40.680 --> 00:05:43.199 into some orange juice. That's if I'm on a morning flight. You know, 85 00:05:43.399 --> 00:05:45.879 just really to think about it. It's vitamin C. You gotta get 86 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:47.319 it up there. Yeah, exactly, good for you. You're not a 87 00:05:47.319 --> 00:05:51.319 big drinker or are smoker or any of that stuff. Well, my problem 88 00:05:51.399 --> 00:05:57.560 is my my recovery time is. I used to go hard when I was 89 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:00.519 younger, so my recovery time now isn't as good, and I work too 90 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:03.959 much to be able, so I need I need at least three days for 91 00:06:04.079 --> 00:06:06.759 one for those to be hungover and then two more to come out of the 92 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:11.040 clouds back. Yeah. No, I feel that more and more every day. 93 00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:13.639 But I enjoy it, and I do enjoy it, and it's just 94 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:16.720 I don't want Some of some of my friends, like were the same age 95 00:06:16.720 --> 00:06:20.279 and they're still going hard, and I'm like, you must be shit at 96 00:06:20.279 --> 00:06:25.480 work. That's all like a thing. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, 97 00:06:25.560 --> 00:06:28.279 I like to think I'm okay at work? You Okay, how often? 98 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:30.519 How many days do you drink? I feel like a doctor. Let's not 99 00:06:30.639 --> 00:06:36.279 talk about that. I'd rather talk about murder. Okay, let's get back 100 00:06:36.279 --> 00:06:41.879 to murderer. Let me answer your question by saying, I host a show 101 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.079 about murder, and I think a lot about some really dark things in I 102 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.160 need to get I need to clear my mind. Yeah. Um, this 103 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:53.360 is a great episode, though it is another headline grabbing story about the murder 104 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:57.560 of Kevin Bacon. No, not that Kevin Bacon. Three three degrees from 105 00:06:57.720 --> 00:07:00.439 Kevin Bacon. Yeah, two guys that got away and then he didn't. 106 00:07:00.920 --> 00:07:05.319 Now. I felt an obligation to compile my list of the top five Kevin 107 00:07:05.319 --> 00:07:10.120 Bacon movies. Oh, very nice. I don't know if you're a fan 108 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:12.879 of the man, Okay, I am. I do love Kevin Meagan. 109 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.920 Okay, this is my opinion the five best Kevin Bacon movies. Number five, 110 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:21.959 Apola thirteen, Okay, take that one. Number four, Hollow Man 111 00:07:23.879 --> 00:07:28.000 sci fi movie where he invisible Man turns to the Invisible Rapists. Yeah. 112 00:07:28.079 --> 00:07:33.000 Yeah, great movie number three, The River Wild with Meryl Streep about a 113 00:07:33.720 --> 00:07:40.839 roboting kidnapping. Yeah. Classic number two Footloose. Okay, this is the 114 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:46.120 classic probably definitely definitely his biggest movie, right, definitely his biggest movie. 115 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:49.079 I would also say, if you want to just google Kevin Bacon Angry Dance, 116 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:54.639 you'll watch the greatest three minutes ever filmed, which is the Warehouse Dance 117 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:58.759 from Footloose. It's incredible. Oh bizarre when dancing gets angry. Yes, 118 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:05.160 and the number one Kevin Bacon movie with a bullet tremors. Oh, Trammers 119 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:09.439 is good, excellent movie about giant snakes that live underground and eat people. 120 00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:11.279 All these movies. You should watch him if you haven't seen him. Folks, 121 00:08:11.279 --> 00:08:15.279 so they have welcome. Does he have to be the star of the 122 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:20.639 these movies? No House. Oh he's pretty great in that. Yeah. 123 00:08:20.639 --> 00:08:24.240 That was his like film debut. Yeah, thank you sir. Yeah, 124 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.000 that's pretty good. Yeah, it's I think it's one of his favorite. 125 00:08:28.040 --> 00:08:31.199 I mean, he's an incredible act I think everybody in that one is fantastic. 126 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:33.600 Yeah, that's a good one. I should have included Animal House damn 127 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:37.159 it, which one would you take out? Your reaction to Hollo Man wasn't 128 00:08:37.159 --> 00:08:39.919 what I hoped, so maybe out you know why because I didn't see it. 129 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.600 Oh you didn't see that? Yeah, I remember it, but I 130 00:08:41.639 --> 00:08:45.440 didn't see it. It's uh, it's one of those movies that's so bad 131 00:08:45.440 --> 00:08:50.000 it's good. It's about I remember the scientists who discovers the ability to become 132 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:56.960 invisible but takes a very dark turn and decides to use it for like raping 133 00:08:56.000 --> 00:09:00.080 people like you would not think it, especially with Kevin Bacon. You think 134 00:09:00.080 --> 00:09:01.279 he's a nice guy. He has not a nice guy in that movie. 135 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:07.399 No he is. He is getting back for for what's his face, stealing 136 00:09:07.440 --> 00:09:11.960 all his money in that movie. But anyway, we should probably talk about 137 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:16.679 the actual This isn't the Kevin Bacon hour. Well, a couple of weeks 138 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:20.360 ago you talked about You're I don't know if it was a real case or 139 00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:22.320 not, the hooker Bacon murders or something, And that's all I can think 140 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.519 about when I was listening to this, And that's funny. Yeah know in 141 00:09:26.559 --> 00:09:30.679 Canada and it's kind of the same thing. It was a sexual guy that 142 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.360 was picking up hookers and after he'd he'd keep him as slaves are bitten, 143 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:37.759 then kill him and feed him to the pigs. Yeah. Oh wow. 144 00:09:37.879 --> 00:09:43.039 He had a pig farm just outside of Vancouver, so all that bacon was 145 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:48.200 going into Vancouver. Oh no, yeah, that's grosser bacon. Well, 146 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.919 this story takes place in the remote countryside, and I've decided I'm never I'm 147 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.159 never going to live outside of a city. Every one of these stories that 148 00:09:58.240 --> 00:10:03.879 starts like covered road outside where it takes an hour and a half for the 149 00:10:03.879 --> 00:10:07.600 nearest fucking ambulance to get to you, You're just asking for trouble people. 150 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:09.360 So when I was listening to this, I was like, oh, it's 151 00:10:09.480 --> 00:10:13.440 right next to that one case that we like. I put them right into 152 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.879 the next property. Yeah, like one door. Oh yeah, basically what 153 00:10:16.960 --> 00:10:22.840 I did. And can I bring up right now the best audio we've ever 154 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:28.120 had on any of these shows, so clear, so many great voices, 155 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:31.480 Like one one of the witnesses, you like, is he right from the 156 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:37.279 weather Channel? His voice was so good it was crazy. Yeah. I 157 00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:43.159 think there are some very unique twists in this story. There's some great twists. 158 00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:50.759 I do love the opening where there's the sort of double nine one one 159 00:10:50.799 --> 00:10:54.120 calls of these two scenarios that are you have to go back and listen to 160 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:56.159 it twice because you're like, is this the same phone call? Right? 161 00:10:56.159 --> 00:10:58.360 Luckily for you, dear listener, you have us here and we can just 162 00:10:58.399 --> 00:11:01.679 play you clip. Yeah and help if you listen to our show first and 163 00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:05.559 then go back with that's the way to do it. Yes, we've been 164 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:09.519 promoting it wrong. Oh time. I have a few clips of the first, 165 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:13.639 the initial nine one one called the nervous caller, Hello, nine one 166 00:11:13.639 --> 00:11:18.120 one, How can I help you? Hey, let me play this for 167 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:20.120 you. We got a lot to talk about. We're gonna I can't believe 168 00:11:20.879 --> 00:11:28.159 where I am. I don't know, like I never ever anything like this 169 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:31.720 happened. I don't very drugs movie, I don't know. I will up 170 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:37.960 in the fucking basement. Okay, embolasement with a love thing on I am 171 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:39.320 my ankle and I cut it with a bunch of knights that I have on 172 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:46.120 my French Okay, do you have anything on you right now? To me, 173 00:11:46.519 --> 00:11:48.320 I don't know about you like I wanted. Part of me was having 174 00:11:48.320 --> 00:11:54.240 trouble believing this guy. It really sounded like like a Alpaccino monologue. I 175 00:11:54.279 --> 00:11:58.120 woke up in a basement, okay, and I had this knife follow me, 176 00:11:58.159 --> 00:12:01.799 Like, are you in a Tarantino movie? That's what? Right now? 177 00:12:03.159 --> 00:12:07.039 How are the nine one one operator kind of had your attitude all right? 178 00:12:07.159 --> 00:12:11.840 Then? Hens fantastic, even the even the freaking basement. Excuse my 179 00:12:11.879 --> 00:12:16.240 French. Yeah, wow, way to get crazy. I wake up after 180 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.279 somebody's trying to kill me. I'm not going fricking that's true. That son 181 00:12:20.360 --> 00:12:22.399 of a bitch trying to kill me. We gotta get the fuck out of 182 00:12:22.399 --> 00:12:26.519 your fuck your French people. I did think it was terrifying. The idea 183 00:12:26.600 --> 00:12:31.200 of being like lost in the woods, where you've escaped the captor's house and 184 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.200 now you don't know if you're king back toward the captor's house or away like 185 00:12:35.320 --> 00:12:41.639 that, to me, is is so terrifying. M And then to have 186 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.879 another nine one one call come in that's almost the exact same situation, but 187 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:50.679 that time the person ends up at somebody else's house, ends up at somebody 188 00:12:50.720 --> 00:12:58.600 else's house who won't reveal his own address, which I thought was sort of 189 00:12:58.639 --> 00:13:03.759 a weird play. Yeah, like, I get it if somebody came up 190 00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:09.279 to my house all bloodied and flipped out. I don't know if I would 191 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:13.759 necessarily be like eager to tell him what my address is so he can convey 192 00:13:13.840 --> 00:13:18.240 it to the people on the other side of that phone, right, But 193 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.080 at the same time, I mean, that person was desperate for hell. 194 00:13:22.159 --> 00:13:26.960 I didn't understand why he the guy whose house he showed up, didn't call 195 00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:31.080 the cops. Yeah, well maybe in that moment because he was like, 196 00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:35.639 was on the phone with the police, Like the guy who escaped was on 197 00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.440 the phone. He was standing in the doorway. But you're you're right. 198 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:41.679 I mean, you would think I wouldn't stand there, I'd be calling the 199 00:13:41.679 --> 00:13:43.639 cops. He would think the door would still be closed. Yeah, there's 200 00:13:43.639 --> 00:13:48.200 a guy at my door and he has got a night here, and he's 201 00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.960 bleeding and he's yelling. Now this guy from sorry, I want to go 202 00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:56.159 back for a second. Here. The first the first guy I skipped over 203 00:13:56.200 --> 00:13:58.360 this part um it was on a business trip. According to him, he 204 00:13:58.399 --> 00:14:01.600 was on his business this trip getting off the bus. A couple of things 205 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:05.720 about his story that I thought were kind of crazy, which was that he 206 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:13.720 was being confined by metal chains that had leather straps, which to me seemed 207 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:18.879 to sort of defeat the purpose of the magical chain. And there was a 208 00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:24.679 butcher knife nearby, which, again, if you're being held captive, you 209 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:30.200 would think that you wouldn't leave a knife nearby, unless you unless I'm the 210 00:14:30.279 --> 00:14:35.480 murderer, because the murderer wasn't around right, correct, So he'd like falling 211 00:14:35.519 --> 00:14:37.360 asleep or something. Yes, So I got him strapped up, and I 212 00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:41.120 just happened to putting a knife down, and I go to do something else 213 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.360 and he wakes up and he sorry, I'm nowhere near the microphone as I'm 214 00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:50.159 falling backwards, because I was he So what I was saying was the murderer 215 00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:56.000 gets them all strapped in upside down, he falls asleep. Now I gotta 216 00:14:56.039 --> 00:15:00.720 go get my other stuff, so i'd go away. I had just put 217 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.720 my knife down. He's able to reach it, kind of like a comedy 218 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:05.279 of errors, even though it isn't a comedy. Yeah, right, and 219 00:15:05.279 --> 00:15:09.240 then he's able to cut himself out of it, which I just didn't. 220 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:13.480 I was like, wow, that knife being upside down and be able to 221 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:16.679 cut yourself out of that, it's pretty pretty talented. Yeah, that's pretty 222 00:15:16.679 --> 00:15:22.799 tough. Like that's very circu to sola shit going on there. Yeah, 223 00:15:22.600 --> 00:15:28.840 I count it. Do you think that this guy, this killer had like 224 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:35.039 part of the thrill was letting them go m Like you wouldn't even think of 225 00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:37.240 that. I would think after the first time, like you would change your 226 00:15:37.279 --> 00:15:41.799 security protocol a little bit, like the fact that it happened again a month 227 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.879 later, like you're just fucking you're terrible at this man, You're terrible at 228 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:48.679 holding people hostage? Or do you kind of get off on it a little 229 00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.519 bit? Because that was the other part of this second scene is that the 230 00:15:52.679 --> 00:15:58.360 killer then pulls up in his car dressed in a kilt, saying that, 231 00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:00.080 oh, I was just running him down because I wanted to get he's got 232 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.120 my outfit. He's got my outfit. I need to get that back. 233 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.399 We need that for my play that I'm putting together. Yeah, I don't 234 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:11.600 know, Yeah, sort of. But it's interesting that he chased him down 235 00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:15.159 the second time. On the first time, he didn't chase him down, 236 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:19.799 right, So it's one of those things where you hear about a lot. 237 00:16:21.200 --> 00:16:26.639 Is he getting bolder, you know? Right? So I guess it's got 238 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:30.879 to be a little bit of that. But I don't know. Maybe it's 239 00:16:30.919 --> 00:16:33.639 maybe it's the thrill of the chase. Here's a knife. If you can 240 00:16:33.679 --> 00:16:34.879 get it, you can get out of here. Yeah, that's all I'm 241 00:16:34.919 --> 00:16:38.799 saying. Guys, creepy as ship though. Everything about this dude is just 242 00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:48.000 gross, supergross. The fact that neither of these gentlemen press charges is another 243 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:52.759 very interesting, interesting fact for the beginning parts of this story. Obviously, 244 00:16:53.399 --> 00:17:00.519 if you have some shame of your lifestyle, you don't want to get out. 245 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:03.279 I guess I get why you wouldn't want to press the charges, but 246 00:17:03.359 --> 00:17:08.839 I would think that that experience you had would be Okay, let's horrific enough. 247 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.079 Let's stop right here because I remember this part now, right, Let's 248 00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:15.519 remember the first guy's voice. Yeah, I'm going to play a little go 249 00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:21.000 ahead, play a little bit of it. I'm a volunt your coin advocated. 250 00:17:21.039 --> 00:17:23.200 I came here to help on the CFC reading and I was supposed to 251 00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:26.359 remember at the bus station I met this guy. I'm by you shooting it 252 00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:29.599 on me. I don't know. We went out to the car and drops. 253 00:17:29.960 --> 00:17:32.640 We went to the Sha Han soda. I woke up in the patient 254 00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.319 and obviously drugged me. Okay, when I get that trooper close to you, 255 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:40.160 I'm gonna need you to put that butcher knife down though or back to 256 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:42.640 auto true scooting out sign in another wards. Okay, your officer is in 257 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.000 no danger. I've been a play. You don't need this throw it and 258 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.200 the wards. But but I just don't want to on you. Is there 259 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.279 anything else on you at all? Just I don't even know if I have 260 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:57.240 my cigarettes. Okay, I don't have a bag or anything else. I 261 00:17:57.720 --> 00:18:03.359 want my bag nice, Okay, all right, I can't believe Darryl does 262 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:08.680 what you know? Come on, that's his conversation. Other thing. People 263 00:18:08.799 --> 00:18:12.039 know it's lifestyle, sure, yeah, yeah, and there's nothing wrong with 264 00:18:12.079 --> 00:18:15.319 it. I'm not saying there's anything wrong way. I'm just like, people 265 00:18:15.400 --> 00:18:18.599 know your lifestyle, so why would you not press charges? Why would you 266 00:18:18.680 --> 00:18:22.200 not? All right now, I'm gonna blow your mind right now, Mo, 267 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:25.599 I can't believe you said that during this episode. Sure, it was 268 00:18:25.640 --> 00:18:29.240 a really bad transition, wasn't it. Woh, here's what I'm gonna say. 269 00:18:29.279 --> 00:18:33.440 Should I hang upside down? Usually usually they're updates and I do them 270 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:37.920 at the end of the episode. But I have an update to this story 271 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.440 that really completely floored me. Okay, and I want to share it with 272 00:18:41.480 --> 00:18:45.559 you now because it's related. It's related to what we're talking about. Okay, 273 00:18:45.799 --> 00:18:48.519 So here's the deal, you guys know because you've already listened to the 274 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.400 actual episode of Sword and Scale. But at the very end of the episode, 275 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:59.359 Mike suggests that the businessman that we've just been hearing clips from Honey was 276 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:06.319 going to file like a civil suit against the killer, and that is how 277 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:10.599 the episode ends with there are going to be some legal proceedings that this guy's 278 00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:15.240 going to have to deal with because of this story. Okay, here's where 279 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:18.839 it blows my mind. This was not included in the Sword and Scale episode 280 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:23.640 because when you hear this it, well, I'm just gonna I'm gonna stop 281 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:30.039 teasing. Here we go. Carlson. That's the guy's last name, James 282 00:19:30.119 --> 00:19:34.599 Carlson. Carlson's suit states that he traveled by bus from New York to Michigan, 283 00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:41.119 specifically to take part in an acknowledge BDSM encounter with Latunsky that's the murderer, 284 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:48.079 after meeting at the time his husband Jamie Arnold, and then Latunski through 285 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:53.519 Facebook. So let me pause my own reading here. So this encounter began 286 00:19:53.799 --> 00:20:00.599 with James Carlson the businessman meeting the ex husband, and the ex husband said 287 00:20:00.640 --> 00:20:03.640 he wasn't into that kind of stuff, right, so saying like I can't 288 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:07.680 deal with this lifestyle. Yea. More so they're saying he did have part 289 00:20:07.759 --> 00:20:14.480 of it, or he was part of it when lun or when Carlson arrived, 290 00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:19.400 that husband had already moved out, oh before the inc But he was 291 00:20:19.720 --> 00:20:25.920 originally going to meet with the husband and meet with both men. But when 292 00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:30.359 he got there found that the husband or is now an ex husband. He's 293 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:32.880 not there anymore. That's not that's how long. That's how long it takes 294 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:37.039 to take a bus from New York to Michigan. Yeah, he's able to 295 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:40.440 move out of the play. That's how long it takes exactly. All right, 296 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:42.000 Well, I'm still not even not the freakiest part here, get ready. 297 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:48.759 Carlson also claimed that Latunski quote hung him upside down naked and role played 298 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:55.440 pig and butcher while performing sex acts that got out of hand and that's when 299 00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:59.119 he got scared and ran. Okay, so I thought that was disturbing too, 300 00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.599 Still not the most During part of this, Carlson called police, which 301 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.240 we heard he had the conversation with the police. The police dropped him off 302 00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:15.240 at a nearby gas station, where he called Mark Latunsky. Not only were 303 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:18.480 no charges filed at the time, but with no money and nowhere to go, 304 00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:26.559 Carlson returned to Latunsky's house for a week and continued to participate in b 305 00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:33.400 DSM sex acts with Latunsky until his return bus ticket to New York was valid. 306 00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:41.960 What what in the living fuck is happening in? How insane is that? 307 00:21:42.680 --> 00:21:47.559 Okay, he went back for a week and didn't get murdered, went 308 00:21:47.640 --> 00:21:51.160 back for a week, didn't get murdered. But the reason that he I 309 00:21:51.240 --> 00:21:55.559 can't even finish my sentences right now, Like the reason he stayed with him 310 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:57.720 was because he was waiting for that bus ticket home, didn't have anywhere else 311 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:00.839 to go. What kind of business this man? Is this? What are 312 00:22:00.839 --> 00:22:03.319 we talking about? Business's not a business man, but you're not a business 313 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:07.519 man. I bring it down? How he How hard is it detained change 314 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:12.200 a bus ticket? Yeah? And I mean we heard the panic in this 315 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:15.279 guy's voice. Yeah. Yeah, he went back to that guy's house for 316 00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.400 a week and stayed with him. Look, I was kidding about the pagan 317 00:22:19.599 --> 00:22:25.279 butcher come on home. Does he say what happened to him? There? 318 00:22:25.480 --> 00:22:27.880 Was he abused more? Or that's that's that part of this Why is he 319 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:33.880 suing him? That's a great question knowing all this part, Yeah, what 320 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:37.640 what's what's he suing him for? Like? Can you sue somebody for these 321 00:22:37.720 --> 00:22:38.880 four I mean, I don't even have it written down here, but it 322 00:22:38.960 --> 00:22:44.920 was for like the holding him captive and all that stuff. Sounds like somebody's 323 00:22:45.079 --> 00:22:48.400 taking advantage of something bad that happened afterwards and using it in there. All 324 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:51.839 right, there's gonna be a couple more updates at the very end of the 325 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:56.079 episode. But that part, like that recolored my viewing of the entire opening 326 00:22:56.119 --> 00:23:00.759 of this episode, because I really felt really bad for this guy. Yeah, 327 00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:03.599 now I kind of feel less bad for him. I know, I'm 328 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.559 not supposed to victim blame on the show, but that's but he wasn't really 329 00:23:06.599 --> 00:23:08.920 a victim. He didn't he just got he got tipped upside down and got 330 00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.680 away. There was actually a victim in this story. Later on. You 331 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:18.359 know what's funny is I as soon as Mike brought up that he had patents 332 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:21.799 out, Yeah, this is the killer we're talking about. Yeah. Yeah. 333 00:23:21.920 --> 00:23:26.200 I was like, oh, there's gonna be financial rep Oh that's interesting. 334 00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.440 I did not think about that angle at all. Yeah, I probably 335 00:23:29.480 --> 00:23:32.240 has a lot of money to us. Yeah, so, because usually people 336 00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:36.039 don't have a lot of money to their name when their murders or when whatever. 337 00:23:36.640 --> 00:23:38.200 I just but as soon as I heard patents, I was like, 338 00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:44.720 oh, he's got constant money coming in. Yeah, he definitely has plenty 339 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:48.599 of time for this hobby of his. Yeah. Um. Also learning that 340 00:23:48.920 --> 00:23:56.000 the sexy game was called uh, when I say something pagan butcher, then 341 00:23:56.240 --> 00:24:00.200 I start to think he this was his dreamboat. He actually had someone whose 342 00:24:00.279 --> 00:24:03.720 name was Bacon. Oh my god. I didn't even think about that right, 343 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:07.039 Like, now this is why this happening. This story is incredible. 344 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:14.240 Oh my god. I wonder if he was like today's day, today's the 345 00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:18.160 day. I wonder if that's why I killed him. I mean, it's 346 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:21.799 really and I wonder appropriate to laugh about it, But I mean, hippie 347 00:24:21.920 --> 00:24:26.640 could be. How badly was I don't remember in the episode did they say 348 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.519 how badly he was butchered? Like, is there anything any chance it could 349 00:24:29.559 --> 00:24:33.319 have been a mistake? His balls were cut off? He ate the balls 350 00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:37.480 oh man, who doesn't Rocky Mountain. That's a hell of a slipping fall. 351 00:24:37.839 --> 00:24:41.880 That's just a mistake. It's one fantastic slipping slipping fall. Oh I 352 00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:45.599 cut off the ball better. Oh my god, I didn't know. It 353 00:24:45.680 --> 00:24:51.799 doesn't say anything about being uh being being being making a cannibal. Yeah, 354 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.079 I did this episode. I didn't. How did I miss that? They 355 00:24:55.160 --> 00:24:56.640 definitely talking aboum though. Shit, I did not make that part up. 356 00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.839 That is said. I didn't say his balls, and it did. Ian, 357 00:25:02.279 --> 00:25:04.319 I'll find the fucking clip. Don't make me find the clip. I 358 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:07.880 will. I wonder if my dog was barking when I missed that, and 359 00:25:08.039 --> 00:25:11.359 that's what he Yeah, I guess he didn't do anything. Well, I 360 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:15.440 listened to him. I walk my dog sometimes and so he got distracted. 361 00:25:15.839 --> 00:25:21.319 Yeah, yeah, no, he he hung him upside down. He would 362 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:25.359 have loved me, Ian bag. He stabbed him a bunch and cut off 363 00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:27.680 his testicles so he could eat them. And then he went to a holiday 364 00:25:27.799 --> 00:25:32.079 party. I remember the holiday party with that husband, with the guy that, 365 00:25:32.319 --> 00:25:34.279 theoretically, based on the other story I heard, could have been there. 366 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.440 I was like, I think, was I wonder if he brought an 367 00:25:37.519 --> 00:25:44.559 order a play the balls. Yeah. Oh, oh my god. He 368 00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:49.480 has a new meaning to hanging balls from the Christmas tree. He put this 369 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.920 funny little sack on my tree and I thought it was I thought it was 370 00:25:52.960 --> 00:26:00.319 supposed to be Sada's presence, but instead it was Kevin's Bacon's bacon. Oh. 371 00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:03.160 If you're still listening to the show, thank you, We love you. 372 00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:11.119 Send us a TWEETE tell us your favorite bacon Dick. I want to 373 00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:15.680 talk a little bit more about this crazy guy at the center of this episode, 374 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.079 Mark Lutunsky, who his Facebook page was not under his real name, 375 00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:27.440 it was under oligos Kai Lucas. He said that he's a straight arrow, 376 00:26:27.799 --> 00:26:33.960 a chemist and an experimentalist, and he loves the leather killed. I also 377 00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:41.759 found it interesting that he's posed in several pictures with food cleverly covering his genitalia. 378 00:26:41.920 --> 00:26:45.839 Was just gonna say, just like an Austin power. It's clearly what 379 00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:51.559 that was in homage to yeah um. But it is yet another story where 380 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:56.799 he is just time after time of him getting in trouble with the law, 381 00:26:56.359 --> 00:27:03.240 being ordered by the courts to under go mental evaluations, and he's not taking 382 00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.319 his meds like it's just fired from a job because he wasn't taking his meds. 383 00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.599 Right, Yeah, so you're just like, well, what how is 384 00:27:10.640 --> 00:27:15.039 this guy acting out before? Because I don't think many jobs would notice you're 385 00:27:15.039 --> 00:27:18.759 not taking your meds, So you've got to be acting out like yeah, 386 00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:23.480 like doing like paranoid screams and stuff. Yeah, well, we do hear 387 00:27:23.519 --> 00:27:30.000 that he had a lot of psychological issues diagnosed with depression, anxiety, paranoid 388 00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:33.920 schizophrenia, borderline personality traits, all these things like a sweetheart. Yeah. 389 00:27:34.119 --> 00:27:40.680 It is interesting though that you hear about all these different diagnoses and then you 390 00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:45.160 always have to give the like caveat of just because you have those things doesn't 391 00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:47.839 mean that you're going to hang people upside down and get their balls off and 392 00:27:47.880 --> 00:27:51.039 trying to get nothing to do with it. But that happens to be this 393 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:56.640 story this guy. Can I go back to his Facebook profile? Yeah? 394 00:27:56.960 --> 00:28:02.000 Do you think this? And do you think we have to get rid of 395 00:28:02.559 --> 00:28:07.440 names on the internet if you join grinder? If I joined Grinder, do 396 00:28:07.559 --> 00:28:12.799 I have to use ian bag? You're just asking about the anonymity of the 397 00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:21.680 idea, Well, it gives it gives people um confidence to do horrible stuff. 398 00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.160 Yeah, yeah, I don't. I mean, I don't know if 399 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:29.200 I mean, listen, I met my girlfriend who's now my wife. I 400 00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:30.680 was gonna say, I thought you were marriage son of m Richard. You're 401 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:34.640 pretty ballsy bringing that out. I met my girlfriend who is now my wife 402 00:28:36.039 --> 00:28:41.240 in the era before the swipe apps, right, So I don't know if 403 00:28:41.359 --> 00:28:45.359 would that be Match dot com that's like Tinder is like the really popular one, 404 00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:48.480 the one I did. Yeah, yeah, exactly. I didn't do 405 00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.759 Match. It was Plenty of Fish was one of the ones that I was 406 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:52.720 on. It's not even how I met her. I met her at a 407 00:28:52.759 --> 00:28:56.720 party, like a Plenty of Fish party. It was a fishing party. 408 00:28:56.839 --> 00:29:00.400 It's not a fishing party. Um. But my guess My point was, 409 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.880 I don't know if I seem to remember on the dating site you kind of 410 00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.400 had to put your real name. But I don't know if do you. 411 00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.039 I don't know. I don't know if you do though, like I mean 412 00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:12.640 a name if you're gonna like post on a news article, you don't. 413 00:29:14.039 --> 00:29:15.680 But I I guess, though, how the hell are they going to prove 414 00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:19.559 it? My name's fucking fishy mcdick duck. Oh shit, that's my dating. 415 00:29:21.519 --> 00:29:26.200 I always knew you're from Eastern European fish duck or whatever. I don't 416 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:30.079 even know what I said, But you're right, you could totally lie about 417 00:29:30.240 --> 00:29:33.480 your name. I think you should. I think you should have to put 418 00:29:33.559 --> 00:29:36.559 put your real name. How do they prove that? But like the license, 419 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:40.000 yes, when you first sign up. So if if I'm on Apple, 420 00:29:40.119 --> 00:29:42.640 I have to put my license in, yeah, and everything from there 421 00:29:44.240 --> 00:29:49.039 goes from there. There's always gonna be the like cheap dating site though, 422 00:29:49.319 --> 00:29:53.359 Like that's easy. You know, that's why these sites even exist. Like 423 00:29:53.480 --> 00:29:56.759 you're the guys that are going on Grinder, they are just fucking for a 424 00:29:56.839 --> 00:30:02.279 hook up. It's funny when Mike said it's like Tinder all my gay friends, 425 00:30:02.960 --> 00:30:08.599 Grinder is nothing like Tinder. Grinders meeting at a bush at a park 426 00:30:08.680 --> 00:30:14.200 and it comes in your face. Yeah, I mean the name alone implies 427 00:30:14.799 --> 00:30:25.279 many other images and just sparking a fire. I was kind of freaked out 428 00:30:25.359 --> 00:30:29.880 to hear though, that on an app like Grinder, that if you delete 429 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:33.599 your text of the conversation, that it gets deleted from the other person's account. 430 00:30:36.200 --> 00:30:40.720 That is wild to me. Yeah. And also again same idea that 431 00:30:40.759 --> 00:30:44.759 if you deactivate your account. It can't be reactivated. They have to be 432 00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:47.200 able to do that. In the case of like a murder, they should 433 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:52.200 be able to see who creates Yeah, stalking, it seemed a little too 434 00:30:52.319 --> 00:30:57.400 easy to go awry. I guess it's all just under the banner of trying 435 00:30:57.440 --> 00:31:02.640 to be discreet. Now, I guess. So remember when Ashley Madison was 436 00:31:02.759 --> 00:31:06.519 huge. Oh of course you remember that, and then I don't just disappeared 437 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:10.400 like overnight. Those sites are still out there though. For sure we've had 438 00:31:10.480 --> 00:31:12.640 guess we've had guests on the Corolla show or like I'm the new spokesperson. 439 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.319 Really oh yeah, for fuck around and find out exactly like insert sight here, 440 00:31:18.519 --> 00:31:21.680 Like they're still doing that. Huh wow Wow. But you know, 441 00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:23.960 listen, people have a hard time finn and love Ian stuff out there. 442 00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:30.079 People say there's plenty of fish, but really there isn't. Mostly crabs. 443 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:38.039 Oh I'm on fire, Um I I back, No, No, I 444 00:31:38.160 --> 00:31:45.039 don't know. I just the whole dating being anonymous. I get it. 445 00:31:45.079 --> 00:31:47.839 I get if you're just trying to fuck around, and you're just fucking around, 446 00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:51.440 right, But I think it gives an opportunity for a bad person to 447 00:31:52.480 --> 00:31:56.759 to slide in and I I don't know how you stop that, and I 448 00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:04.079 don't know if it's Yeah, as the victim, he's saying, Oh, 449 00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:07.319 this could happen, but I'm fine with it. M. You know, 450 00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:14.200 yeah, meaning like that it's out there. It's just a risk that you 451 00:32:14.319 --> 00:32:15.920 know, it's yeah, it's it's part of the well, you know how 452 00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.880 you have to say when you pick a sport, you might get hurt. 453 00:32:20.880 --> 00:32:24.519 H kind of the same thing. Yeah, because he also talks about how 454 00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:30.720 there's like a bunch of hey do this if this happens now, M. 455 00:32:30.160 --> 00:32:34.359 Yeah, it's talked about a lot more. Now that's true. I do 456 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:37.400 think that. And again I'm sort of pairting what's said in the episode. 457 00:32:37.720 --> 00:32:42.880 If you are going to go have some sort of like indiscreet hookup or a 458 00:32:43.039 --> 00:32:46.000 more discreet hook up, you should at least let one person know right where 459 00:32:46.079 --> 00:32:51.440 you're going, especially if you understand the technology of the app you're using. 460 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:54.799 But I can I can see his point. It's taking a bust to Michigan 461 00:32:54.920 --> 00:32:59.039 from New York. Yeah, that's like you don't really want to tell anybody 462 00:32:59.599 --> 00:33:02.400 I got I go four states to get some cock. That's what that's saying. 463 00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:09.160 Yeah, um, yeah, again, I don't. But so if 464 00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:15.319 this guy had just like come clean with this thing, that's a part of 465 00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:17.519 his life. But if he went back, there's no way he's coming clean 466 00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:21.119 with it, right, Well, then there's that whole part of him going 467 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:23.720 back again, which is just so insane to me. So so, how 468 00:33:23.720 --> 00:33:30.799 could you be so careless? Well? I trying so hard not to say 469 00:33:30.920 --> 00:33:34.200 terrible things. I am. I'm ready to try not talk. But is 470 00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:37.880 he a victim if he went back again? It's not like he was in 471 00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:43.319 love with the side, right, Yeah, you know, I showed up 472 00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:46.319 from Michigan. I couldn't leave him. I was just so we were sorry. 473 00:33:46.359 --> 00:33:49.640 We were entwined for over twenty minutes, you know what I mean? 474 00:33:50.000 --> 00:33:53.480 Sure, I don't know. I don't and I don't. I don't know 475 00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:55.920 how much I believe it. I didn't have the money to get back in 476 00:33:57.000 --> 00:33:59.680 my bust, I don't. I've never seen a bus ticket with a with 477 00:33:59.839 --> 00:34:01.519 a date on it before. I thought it was like, if there's a 478 00:34:01.559 --> 00:34:05.039 seat, get on, Yeah, just hop on, man, Yeah, 479 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:08.679 who knows? Man? That fucking flips me out big time. It's weird. 480 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:14.960 Right, Let's talk about Kevin Bacon. Now this guy, this poor 481 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:20.679 guy looking for hook up on Christmas Eve and just sounds like a fun love 482 00:34:20.760 --> 00:34:25.360 and he sounds like my gay friends. He sounds like, I'm gonna go 483 00:34:25.440 --> 00:34:29.320 get some cock and then I'll be back a little bit later and we're gonna 484 00:34:29.320 --> 00:34:32.559 have cosmopaltens. You know, I'm gonna have so much fun editing clips of 485 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:35.960 the show. And I got I got so much dirt on you, now, 486 00:34:36.599 --> 00:34:40.199 my god, so many good clips that I was gonna say it's gonna 487 00:34:40.239 --> 00:34:45.199 say that part. I'm like, Okay, remind me to ask you afterwards. 488 00:34:45.239 --> 00:34:47.360 I want clips. I want the clips to be able to put on 489 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:53.440 my on social media to advertise the show. I'll give you access. But 490 00:34:54.800 --> 00:35:00.400 Kevin Bacon doing this Christmas Eve hook up, but things have gone wrong. 491 00:35:01.280 --> 00:35:07.800 By the next morning, when Kevin's family has their big Christmas breakfast and Kevin 492 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:12.440 is nowhere to be seen, it sounds like it's gone wrong within like half 493 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:15.599 an hour of him arriving. Yeah, he saw the guy's name was Kevin 494 00:35:15.639 --> 00:35:19.599 Bacon, and that was like chump, chump, yep. I'm curious, 495 00:35:20.320 --> 00:35:24.840 do you have any Christmas morning traditions in your family that you're gonna have you 496 00:35:24.880 --> 00:35:30.800 ever hooked up with anybody from the internet, Well have you back in the 497 00:35:30.000 --> 00:35:32.239 day? Look at you? Oh my god? But it was it was 498 00:35:32.360 --> 00:35:37.000 dial up internet, so you know you're safe. That's good because by the 499 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:45.760 time the message got there, so did you like you know? Um, 500 00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:50.880 Christmas Christmas? Uh, we try to go to a movie on Christmas Day 501 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:53.519 every Yeah. We love to go to a movie on Christmas Day. Um 502 00:35:54.079 --> 00:36:00.119 we haven't last year, of course. Um we also we um we walk 503 00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:05.280 around the neighborhood with our dogs on the twenty fourth and see all the lights. 504 00:36:05.599 --> 00:36:07.760 That's fun, I do. I hated it as a kid. I 505 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:14.079 just enjoy because we take a drink and we go right. So yeah, 506 00:36:14.199 --> 00:36:15.679 yeah, basically that. Yeah, you dress your dog of a costume. 507 00:36:16.159 --> 00:36:21.360 Um. No. For the Christmas card, every year, I come up 508 00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:25.480 with something different. So this year. This year we board my sister in 509 00:36:25.559 --> 00:36:30.119 law and brother in law's kids and use them as our own family. That's 510 00:36:30.159 --> 00:36:36.239 good. That's good for our Christmas card this year and last year it was 511 00:36:36.280 --> 00:36:37.639 the dogs. I can't remember where the dogs are doing, but we usually 512 00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.559 it's just the dogs. Nice. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. My 513 00:36:40.679 --> 00:36:45.679 family does a big Christmas breakfast as well. So I felt I could relate 514 00:36:45.760 --> 00:36:51.039 to this moment that happened in this episode of having the big breakfast and a 515 00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.519 guest not showing up. Isn't it When it's a big tradition and somebody doesn't 516 00:36:55.559 --> 00:37:00.559 show up, you know something's not good. Oh sure, especially something like 517 00:37:00.719 --> 00:37:05.480 Christmas Morning. By the way, confused listener, Yes, I am Jewish. 518 00:37:05.559 --> 00:37:07.280 My family celebrates both. I wasn't going to bring it up. Yeah, 519 00:37:07.400 --> 00:37:12.039 I know. There's there's definitely a couple fans out there who ripping up 520 00:37:12.039 --> 00:37:14.039 my Jewish card right now. They're ripping it up. They're saying, how 521 00:37:14.119 --> 00:37:15.760 dare you, sir? Just to let the other Jewish people know he enjoys 522 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:24.480 Eastern much more. Woo. There's another mystery surrounding this case that happens in 523 00:37:24.599 --> 00:37:31.320 this moment of Christmas Morning, which is that the car of Kevin was found 524 00:37:31.519 --> 00:37:36.599 parked in a convenience store parking lot with all of his belongings, including his 525 00:37:36.719 --> 00:37:42.760 phone. Now they were able to get the conversations from his phone. Thank 526 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:45.599 god, those texts weren't deleted, which you would think that Latunsky guy would 527 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:49.119 have deleted the text and that would have been game set match. But the 528 00:37:49.199 --> 00:37:55.599 mystery is why were all the belongings in the car. Did Kevin take an 529 00:37:55.719 --> 00:38:02.719 Uber to the house from an undis closed location or did he drive the car 530 00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:08.039 to Marks and then Mark moved the car later? I think from the conversation 531 00:38:08.199 --> 00:38:15.079 we had with not we, but the conversation Mike has Mike didn't happen. 532 00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:21.639 But the conversation with the guy that didn't meet up with Yeah, I say 533 00:38:21.840 --> 00:38:24.920 he was parked there and probably was headed off to something afterwards. You know, 534 00:38:25.079 --> 00:38:28.599 you're just going to hook up, and was headed off to something afterwards 535 00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:31.440 and for whatever reason, and we know now it was part of the kink, 536 00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:37.960 was showing up without knowing where you were, knowing anything, showing up 537 00:38:38.519 --> 00:38:43.079 from New York on a bus. Yeah, so there was something. There 538 00:38:43.199 --> 00:38:47.320 was something in the kink like that, you know. But why no phone? 539 00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.639 That's the part that bothers me. Maybe was it just like the cruelest 540 00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:57.760 of fate that he also just happened to have forgotten his phone in the car. 541 00:38:58.239 --> 00:39:01.159 Maybe like just getting into the Uber. I don't think I got to 542 00:39:01.199 --> 00:39:05.639 reach into my pockets and realize, because immediately the first thing I'm gonna do 543 00:39:05.679 --> 00:39:07.880 when I get into an Uber is go, I needed distrack myself so I 544 00:39:07.960 --> 00:39:10.559 don't have to talk to this uber driver. Wow, you were a dick, 545 00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:15.039 So I would immediately be looking through my phone and notice that when we're 546 00:39:15.039 --> 00:39:19.559 not on the air, looking to throw your phone. I see you next 547 00:39:19.559 --> 00:39:24.599 week, jerk. Do you think maybe uh Latunsky? Do you think he 548 00:39:24.800 --> 00:39:30.920 picked him up not send an uber? You know, I like the uber 549 00:39:30.000 --> 00:39:34.639 angle. I think that they would have we wouldn't know that an uber was 550 00:39:34.679 --> 00:39:37.639 called. It would have been on somebody's phone, right, that's true, 551 00:39:37.639 --> 00:39:39.199 and that that's never say brought up. Yeah, but I don't know if 552 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:43.760 it's even relevant. I mean, you know it's only relevant. It's just 553 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:45.960 weird, is what you're saying. Yeah, and trying to determine, like 554 00:39:45.079 --> 00:39:47.679 why the car was left behind. Yeah, I don't know why it would 555 00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.559 be at a convenience store. You know, it's like a Dollar General store 556 00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.360 unless it was I have you ever been to a Dollar General? I've been 557 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.639 just to a dollar Storely different, aren't they? Okay? What's the dif 558 00:40:00.320 --> 00:40:04.880 Well? Dollar General is basically a grocery store, Like it's almost like wool 559 00:40:04.920 --> 00:40:07.719 Worse or Target or something like that. But they fuck it up by calling 560 00:40:07.840 --> 00:40:12.840 the Dollar General because they started before the Dollar Store, where it's like that 561 00:40:12.960 --> 00:40:15.480 was the name of the Dollar General. We're the Dollar General, but it's 562 00:40:15.519 --> 00:40:20.440 not. It's not a dollar store's And I found out this summer by going 563 00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:22.800 to one in Virginia with my wife, and I was like, this place 564 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.039 is fucking fantastic, wow walking around, where as I've been judging for a 565 00:40:27.119 --> 00:40:30.559 long time the Dollar General being the Dollars store. Yeah exactly. Yeah, 566 00:40:30.000 --> 00:40:32.960 in my brain I thought it was like the dollar Store. Yeah, well, 567 00:40:34.159 --> 00:40:37.159 apparently they're changing their name because people, that's how if you're not familiar 568 00:40:37.199 --> 00:40:39.519 with it, that's what you think of it as a dollar store. Yeah. 569 00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:45.559 Yeah, so harazing items. Man, So him being parked there isn't 570 00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:47.920 as weird as it would be as it would be if it was a dollar 571 00:40:49.000 --> 00:40:51.599 store. Yeah. So basically he's parked at a Target or a Walmart. 572 00:40:51.719 --> 00:40:54.360 Sure, so that's not as weird that. You're right, that's not as 573 00:40:54.400 --> 00:40:59.119 weird. That makes it feel more like, let's meet at a public place 574 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:02.280 first, Yeah, just to I can make sure you're not a crazy person 575 00:41:02.280 --> 00:41:05.480 who's gonna hang me upside down and cut off my balls and try to eat 576 00:41:05.559 --> 00:41:07.559 him. And then once they've passed that test, then I'll get into going 577 00:41:07.559 --> 00:41:09.519 to Dollar General. I figure it out. Then, Yeah, so I 578 00:41:09.639 --> 00:41:14.480 think I think he got into his car. Yeah no, but still, 579 00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:19.280 why why not the phone? I don't Yeah, that's what I mean unless 580 00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.320 here we go. Now your theory's playing out because now he is talking, 581 00:41:23.480 --> 00:41:27.880 he's parked his car, left his phone in the car. He's talking to 582 00:41:28.519 --> 00:41:31.960 Latunsky, and then Latunski just just come with me, you don't need that. 583 00:41:32.079 --> 00:41:36.639 We and they just gets into the car, and then he's now really 584 00:41:36.679 --> 00:41:38.480 screwed. So he's basically thinking he's going to be back within an hour. 585 00:41:39.280 --> 00:41:43.639 Maybe he's not even thinking. We don't even know. Maybe he is doesn't 586 00:41:43.679 --> 00:41:45.960 even know he's going to his home, right, Maybe he's just like, 587 00:41:45.079 --> 00:41:49.159 let's go for a drive, so just go, ya think somewhere, and 588 00:41:49.239 --> 00:41:52.320 then they end up back in his home. See there you go. That's 589 00:41:52.880 --> 00:41:55.239 that's starting a bit. We should start our own police company. So good, 590 00:41:55.800 --> 00:42:00.280 Um, I do don't talk to the police, for God's sakeey, 591 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:04.960 And we did two episodes about that. Let's start talking about episodes that we're 592 00:42:04.960 --> 00:42:07.480 gonna have to have a four week break. Yeah, I did think it 593 00:42:07.599 --> 00:42:14.639 was interesting that Uber. They bring up this very interesting point that we were 594 00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:17.599 always told don't get into a car with strangers, but now there's an app 595 00:42:17.679 --> 00:42:21.760 where you do exactly that. I thought, Wow, that's pretty brilliant. 596 00:42:22.360 --> 00:42:24.719 Smart people put their kids in ubers. Oh yeah, kids Uber to school 597 00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:29.280 like it used to be. No, I was an Uber driver. Do 598 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:31.599 you know that? I did not know that last week? Thankfully not. 599 00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:35.559 But in the lead up to my wedding, I needed to make some extra 600 00:42:35.880 --> 00:42:42.000 money and so I was Uber driving at night. Money money. Okay, 601 00:42:42.000 --> 00:42:45.599 so you didn't realize what pays for weddings. It's money. Being an Uber 602 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.320 driver was one of the more surreal experiences of my life, just because of 603 00:42:49.360 --> 00:42:51.400 the people that got in your car from the people have gotten into my car. 604 00:42:51.960 --> 00:42:53.280 Did you ever feel not safe? No? I never. That never 605 00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:59.239 happened. But it reminded me because I did take a small child at some 606 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:04.079 point, like this little girl got out of like a dance studio and I 607 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:07.480 was like, yeah, my mom, Beverly's account, you just take me 608 00:43:07.559 --> 00:43:08.559 home. And I was like, all right, cool, obviously I'm a 609 00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:13.840 good person. I just Uber this little girl. I was like, this 610 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:17.639 is this is bizarre. This should not be like legal, there should be 611 00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:21.159 certain people that I have to take kids, right, Yeah, you should? 612 00:43:21.360 --> 00:43:23.840 Did you have Is there some sort of criminal record they check for you 613 00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:30.880 to drive. I honestly only remember like scanning my driver's license. But do 614 00:43:30.920 --> 00:43:35.440 you remember you do have to like go maybe you get your fingerprints taken. 615 00:43:35.760 --> 00:43:37.760 There was like a little thing that you had to do before you got your 616 00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:42.400 sticker for your car. What that process was, I don't remember. It 617 00:43:42.519 --> 00:43:46.719 was not very intense at all, And certainly it's not like you're checking in 618 00:43:46.880 --> 00:43:51.079 with a boss every day before you start your shift to make sure you're of 619 00:43:51.239 --> 00:43:55.639 the right mind, you know, like I'm here in California, especially pre 620 00:43:55.800 --> 00:44:00.519 pandemic. I mean, I can't even count how many times I used Uber, 621 00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:05.000 very very convenient service, but it is a little bit freaky when you 622 00:44:05.119 --> 00:44:07.599 kind of take a step back and just think about what it is you're doing. 623 00:44:07.719 --> 00:44:14.119 Well, even worse, step back and think how little um the big 624 00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:19.639 tech giants think of humans. Like my face, it's basically Facebook given you 625 00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:22.239 a ride and they don't give a shit about you. Yeah, I mean, 626 00:44:22.679 --> 00:44:28.800 you hear stories all the time of just weird confrontations in Uber cars and 627 00:44:28.840 --> 00:44:34.679 stuff. I once was told that Uber started because they were they they were 628 00:44:34.719 --> 00:44:37.920 going to use it in taxis, like that that app was for taxis, 629 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:42.079 and they went to taxi companies and they didn't want anything to do with it, 630 00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.039 so they just started their own thing. And then the taxi companies got 631 00:44:45.119 --> 00:44:47.480 real pissed, yeah, and got destroyed. Yeah. And now with the 632 00:44:47.519 --> 00:44:51.880 total mass, especially again like in LA, it's just, yeah, what 633 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:55.400 a disaster. So but yeah, can't wait until they're driverless, you know, 634 00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:00.480 I thought that, But then I've also seen all of those like weird 635 00:45:00.519 --> 00:45:06.400 thought experiments about like how if a robot driver is about to run over a 636 00:45:06.519 --> 00:45:08.719 person, but they could swerve out of the way, but by doing so 637 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:14.360 crash the car and kill you. Should the robot car be programed to do 638 00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.360 that? Oh my god? You know what I mean? This episode just 639 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:22.559 took Ah, It's like a which should it do? What does it do? 640 00:45:23.079 --> 00:45:25.079 And how do you make that judgment? You know, if it's going 641 00:45:25.119 --> 00:45:29.599 to hit two people, let's say a mother and their child, or crash 642 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:31.400 and kill you, like does it? I don't know if I want that? 643 00:45:31.519 --> 00:45:36.079 Oh my god, two lives are worth more than one. How do 644 00:45:36.159 --> 00:45:38.360 you program it? Ian? How do your program does it save you all 645 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:43.440 the time? You know? Is that a question you have to answer before 646 00:45:43.480 --> 00:45:45.119 you get into the car? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure that it's 647 00:45:45.119 --> 00:45:47.480 called a waiver. I'm sure there's going to be a lot of those. 648 00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.079 I don't know if it's ever gonna work for that reason alone. Also, 649 00:45:52.960 --> 00:46:00.039 here's the thing too, I love driving because of the freeing experience. I 650 00:46:00.079 --> 00:46:05.239 thought you're gonna say power and the power to to go at my speed literally 651 00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:07.559 right, I drive the way that I want to. I'll follow the laws 652 00:46:08.039 --> 00:46:14.519 hold over a lot. But you know, if if there's no cars ahead 653 00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.639 of me, I can go faster than sixty five. I can go sixty 654 00:46:16.679 --> 00:46:22.440 eight. I go seventy two if I'm really feeling frisky. But robot driver, 655 00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:24.679 we're never gonna do that. Robot drivers are only going to go the 656 00:46:24.719 --> 00:46:29.119 speed limit, and it's frankly gonna it's gonna piss me off. You know, 657 00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:31.239 you can, you can kind of shame and guilt an uber driver to 658 00:46:31.280 --> 00:46:37.079 go a little faster. But if there's there's if there's lanes for autonomous cars, 659 00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:43.760 it'll be different because it'll never slow down, so sixty five won't seem 660 00:46:43.840 --> 00:46:45.920 like you're going slow. Because you'll always be doing that. M hmm. 661 00:46:46.559 --> 00:46:50.519 Let's see what you're saying. I think there's that's how I think there should 662 00:46:50.519 --> 00:46:52.760 be. I think there should be a lane that driverless car is driving. 663 00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:57.639 But what happens when any number of things go wrong? Like you say, 664 00:46:57.679 --> 00:47:01.119 it's never gonna stop, but yeah, there's be some the oil's gonna leak 665 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:05.079 from a car, and the battery's gonna run out, and then there's gonna 666 00:47:05.079 --> 00:47:07.280 be a stalled car in that lane, and then what but the but the 667 00:47:08.360 --> 00:47:12.960 robot's gonna know. Our computer is gonna know what's going wrong with a car 668 00:47:13.199 --> 00:47:16.639 before it happens, unlike you. Yeah, it's not gonna let it get 669 00:47:16.679 --> 00:47:21.360 that far. But why am I? Why? Why am I playing on 670 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:23.960 the road on the contech company's side. Yeah, this is weird. I 671 00:47:24.079 --> 00:47:27.840 was going to say. This whole conversation started with the fact that robots don't 672 00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:32.199 give a book about is why we gotta do it? Yeah, oh my 673 00:47:32.320 --> 00:47:37.159 god. Well, I'd like people tell me whether I want to know if 674 00:47:37.199 --> 00:47:43.159 you listen to the show, send us a message either on Sword and Scale, 675 00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:47.559 rewind On on Twitter or Matts or Eyes Twitter and let us know what 676 00:47:47.800 --> 00:47:52.880 you think your your choice is kill the little woman and baby in front of 677 00:47:52.960 --> 00:47:54.840 you, or swam into the wall and kill you in the car. It's 678 00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:59.159 a tough choice. Make the decision you gotta before you get in the car. 679 00:48:00.480 --> 00:48:06.039 I want to talk. Here's another question that's brought up in this episode. 680 00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:14.719 Do you think it's possible that Mark Latunsky murdered before these events? No? 681 00:48:15.440 --> 00:48:19.199 No, you think those runaways, including the guy who ran away and 682 00:48:19.280 --> 00:48:23.599 came back, are were just they would have escalated them. There would have 683 00:48:23.639 --> 00:48:29.159 been other DNA in that house. Yeah. Oh, that's but a guarantee 684 00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:32.679 if there's JIS everywhere in that house. I don't want to think about that. 685 00:48:34.039 --> 00:48:36.039 Maybe think of that. I was just thinking of the blood everywhere. 686 00:48:36.079 --> 00:48:37.920 But then I was like, there's other DNA that he's bringing into the house. 687 00:48:38.239 --> 00:48:42.960 Now I think I think he just got bolder and boulder and got caught 688 00:48:43.000 --> 00:48:46.719 on the first time. Yeah. I mean, it's such a gruesome crime, 689 00:48:46.880 --> 00:48:51.920 but he also seemed woefully unprepared to cover it up, you know, 690 00:48:52.079 --> 00:48:53.760 like he was still just hanging from the rafters when the cops got there, 691 00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:59.119 Right, I would think maybe if he was he would have mass killer. 692 00:48:59.199 --> 00:49:00.920 Yeah, he would have tried to hide it more. What were your thoughts? 693 00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:04.199 Do you think he watched a lot of Sorry I didn't mean it, 694 00:49:04.679 --> 00:49:07.559 but that show That's Dexter because it was kind of a Dexter time kind of 695 00:49:07.679 --> 00:49:12.280 killing right, It was a little bit a little bit but then yeah, 696 00:49:12.400 --> 00:49:15.400 I mean, god, we get so many horrible ideas from watching things. 697 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:23.079 So he's just he's just when they talk about is him being married to his 698 00:49:23.239 --> 00:49:27.840 wife? You know, just sound like just one of those people that's just 699 00:49:28.320 --> 00:49:31.840 mean. Just oh yeah, you just don't want to be right, guess 700 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:36.599 so mean. And I know you don't ever google these people or see what 701 00:49:36.639 --> 00:49:39.719 they actually look like, but if you want to see what Mark Latunsky looks 702 00:49:39.760 --> 00:49:43.800 like, not a looker? He not a looker. He is exactly what 703 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:47.800 you would think of, just a creeper who praise on other people. He's 704 00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:51.039 how about the wife? Was the wife a looker? I didn't see that 705 00:49:51.079 --> 00:49:53.199 picture. I only saw the picture of the dude, so I was interested 706 00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:58.360 in, Um, what were your thoughts that too? Yeah? Better? 707 00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.599 If I'm making martinis cosmopolitans, you better be. I just wanted to pay 708 00:50:01.679 --> 00:50:06.760 to see the picture of the dude. That sounds I'm interested what were your 709 00:50:06.800 --> 00:50:12.599 thoughts on makeup mogul Jeffrey Starr, who's also interviewed to heat the episode. 710 00:50:12.679 --> 00:50:15.719 But he's been canceled, right, Oh, I think so now that you 711 00:50:15.800 --> 00:50:17.519 mentioned that. I didn't actually think that until you've just now said it. 712 00:50:17.599 --> 00:50:21.599 I remember hearing something, Yeah, everyone's canceled. Everybody. Yeah, Well, 713 00:50:21.800 --> 00:50:23.119 in comedy, if you get canceled, get nominated for a Grammy. 714 00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:28.239 It's what I'm gonna awesome. I'm trying to get canceled. Well all people 715 00:50:28.239 --> 00:50:30.480 off the dudes listen to this episode, and I'm not gonna have very far. 716 00:50:30.599 --> 00:50:34.960 Hey to tell you he did a couple of jis or that's the dessertness. 717 00:50:36.800 --> 00:50:37.679 I was trying to explain to my wife. I was like, it's 718 00:50:37.679 --> 00:50:40.599 a good thing. I'm not ever going to run for political office because I 719 00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:45.199 have said so many things into a microphone I can't even remember half of it. 720 00:50:45.519 --> 00:50:47.599 Or it's or somebody in your family's running for you? Did you rather 721 00:50:47.639 --> 00:50:52.480 say, yeah, exactly. I want to play a clip here of this 722 00:50:52.679 --> 00:50:55.599 YouTuber. I thought he said some interesting things. I had some thoughts. 723 00:50:55.599 --> 00:50:59.679 I want to share them with you. Here we go. What's really heavy 724 00:50:59.760 --> 00:51:05.639 heart? It's one of my dearest subscribers and fans. His name was Kevin 725 00:51:05.800 --> 00:51:12.119 Bacon and he was from a very small town in Michigan called a Swartz Creek, 726 00:51:12.920 --> 00:51:19.239 and he was sadly murdered a few days ago. And the case it's 727 00:51:19.320 --> 00:51:23.239 giving me weird vibes. The police are playing games, and I really wanted 728 00:51:23.280 --> 00:51:29.360 to talk about this case and bring more awareness to Kevin and his family. 729 00:51:30.199 --> 00:51:35.079 I thought it was really interesting that he was talking about how the police are 730 00:51:35.159 --> 00:51:38.679 playing games. I didn't understand it. I didn't either. The only thought 731 00:51:38.880 --> 00:51:45.400 that I had it's an open investigation, and the police are not just going 732 00:51:45.639 --> 00:51:50.519 to go reveal all the information that they have. It doesn't work that way, 733 00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:52.239 So you'd think because because they didn't give him all the information, he's 734 00:51:52.280 --> 00:51:54.880 like, they're playing games with me. That's kind of what I thought. 735 00:51:55.079 --> 00:52:00.360 And I also I thought it was because they didn't do anything about the other 736 00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:02.920 two guys that he thought the police were playing games, like they knew there 737 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.320 was going to be a problem, sure, and they hadn't done anything. 738 00:52:06.719 --> 00:52:09.159 That's what I kind of thought. I think either way, it sounded a 739 00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:15.559 little bit uninformed. You know. I also thought sounded Jeffrey Stars. I 740 00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:20.400 kind of had two thoughts about it. I thought it was interesting that he 741 00:52:20.679 --> 00:52:24.639 was choosing to make an announcement at all. Right, it felt a little 742 00:52:24.719 --> 00:52:30.480 bit like I'm just using this so that people, the right people will put 743 00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.280 my name with this case. I also on the flip side of it, 744 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:38.239 though, you've got to maybe kind of distance yourself from it. You know, 745 00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:45.440 there's other stories throughout entertainment history of like actors or whoever who kind of 746 00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:51.159 get their name raked through the mud because they're tangentially involved, but not really. 747 00:52:51.719 --> 00:52:54.760 So I started my mind started to change a little bit. And also 748 00:52:54.880 --> 00:52:59.239 I would say, as a host of a show, I guess if I 749 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:02.119 had heard about some tragic death, I might feel like I should say something 750 00:53:02.199 --> 00:53:07.719 about it. I don't know, no, no, um. I I 751 00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:09.360 think it was a little bit of both. But I also thought he said 752 00:53:09.400 --> 00:53:14.039 some nice things. You know, he's later on he said some nice things. 753 00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:19.239 You know, he donated twenty thousand dollars and put the things out there, 754 00:53:19.320 --> 00:53:22.639 Hey be safe, you know, And this guy loved I love to 755 00:53:22.679 --> 00:53:25.480 have fun and love to live life. And you know, I thought he 756 00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:30.480 said some great things. So I don't I don't know, Although that beginning 757 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:36.800 part is you're just like want Yeah, but you can't judge him for that. 758 00:53:37.320 --> 00:53:39.840 You know, people, when you're talking about somebody that dies, you 759 00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:44.480 don't you don't always the right words. Yeah, I agree, And again 760 00:53:44.679 --> 00:53:47.079 he did donate a lot of money, so I thought that was really weird 761 00:53:47.239 --> 00:53:50.639 him to do that. It'd be weird. Did somebody had a tattoo of 762 00:53:50.719 --> 00:53:54.079 you on them and they then helps on their showing and he's been hung up 763 00:53:54.239 --> 00:53:57.599 side down? You're like, yeah, okay, did they want to kill 764 00:53:57.679 --> 00:54:02.159 me? Right? Yeah? Mentioned that the twenty thousand went to the funeral 765 00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:09.079 costs. What's up with funerals costing five figures? This is like a crazy, 766 00:54:09.320 --> 00:54:15.119 crazy scenario that I don't know how we got this far. Is it 767 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:22.119 just because people like you're gonna go if you want to believe in like a 768 00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:27.880 heaven and a hell? I don't think the place that your body is rotting 769 00:54:27.960 --> 00:54:31.599 in has anything to do with that. Why are we spending this much money 770 00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:36.480 on a casket or on a site? I just I don't get it. 771 00:54:36.639 --> 00:54:42.440 I don't. I think it's something I don't understand it as well, And 772 00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:45.920 I don't I know this is weird to talk about, but I think i'd 773 00:54:45.960 --> 00:54:49.239 like to be donated to science is what I'd like to happen before you die. 774 00:54:49.360 --> 00:54:52.079 Yep, just before you're out. Way to go, Matt, I 775 00:54:52.159 --> 00:54:54.360 was trying to have a nice talk and you decide to ruin it. Sorry, 776 00:54:54.880 --> 00:54:58.960 donate you to fucking science. No, I'd like to. I'd like 777 00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:01.679 to, you know whatever. There's there's areas where you know, they do 778 00:55:01.840 --> 00:55:06.119 things with your body, but there's also in murders they use you. Uh 779 00:55:06.400 --> 00:55:07.960 there's a place where they put you to see how long it takes for you 780 00:55:08.079 --> 00:55:14.119 to disappear. Yeah, So I just I don't know. I also feel 781 00:55:14.719 --> 00:55:25.599 like we talk about and being environmentally sound, and I don't know how graveyards 782 00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:29.840 are, you know, I don't know why. Sure like it just seems 783 00:55:29.880 --> 00:55:35.079 like a waste of space and they just keep watering the grass and the cutting 784 00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:38.199 the grass and the and it doesn't seem and it doesn't seem like the body 785 00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:42.559 goes back to the earth where. Yeah, have you seen they have those 786 00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.519 new newer things where it's like makes your body part of like a tree. 787 00:55:45.840 --> 00:55:49.320 Oh that's cool. I thought that was pretty cool looking at a tree. 788 00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:54.079 Not like that, it's like a scarecrow. Yeah, like that, like 789 00:55:54.159 --> 00:55:57.239 one of those faces you put on a tree. Yeah, like that. 790 00:55:57.480 --> 00:56:00.440 No, it's more like, you know, your ashes and stuff mixed in 791 00:56:00.559 --> 00:56:04.360 with soil. Oh, it's interesting your physical body necessarily, But I thought 792 00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.199 that seemed to make a little bit more sense. And then instead of this 793 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:12.239 weird, desolate graveyard, you have like a forest with like renewable energy and 794 00:56:12.320 --> 00:56:15.679 stuff. I mean, it's it sounds nice. Who knows what the realities 795 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:16.599 of it are. Well, honestly, by the end of the day, 796 00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:22.360 we're just we're just dinosaurs which turned into fuel. Like, yeah, so 797 00:56:22.880 --> 00:56:24.840 how we have to I'm guessing that's what we have to do, is we 798 00:56:24.960 --> 00:56:28.559 have to just turn into some sort of energy source. That's all we are. 799 00:56:30.039 --> 00:56:34.320 Good talk, way to fucking bring it down, Jesus Christ, how 800 00:56:34.440 --> 00:56:36.480 much is a funeral? Well, what do you want to do? God, 801 00:56:36.599 --> 00:56:39.440 damn it, you're worse than my wife. I don't want to I 802 00:56:39.519 --> 00:56:44.000 don't want to get life insurance. You're just gonna kill me. Ye, 803 00:56:45.280 --> 00:56:47.039 So there's another By the way, why do they call it life insurance? 804 00:56:47.639 --> 00:56:53.480 It should be it's non insurance. Though it's insurance. Sounds like you're gonna 805 00:56:53.519 --> 00:56:59.239 get another three years out of something. Yeah, that's great. Um, 806 00:57:00.400 --> 00:57:05.920 I wanted to wrap this up with some talk about the the hearings, the 807 00:57:06.559 --> 00:57:14.719 trial, and initially Mark said that he wasn't Mark Latunsky. Mark Latunsky was 808 00:57:14.840 --> 00:57:20.280 his nephew and his real name is Edgar Thomas Hill. He's a descendant of 809 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:25.480 a royal Welsh family called the Thomas clan, and then for I guess, 810 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:29.480 for a very long time, continued to maintain that that's who he was. 811 00:57:30.599 --> 00:57:37.360 I mean, this guy is is completely insane or he's brilliant. I mean 812 00:57:37.480 --> 00:57:40.440 he we know he has these masters, we know he holds several patents. 813 00:57:40.760 --> 00:57:47.639 He obviously has levels of brilliance in him, but he has certainly crossed a 814 00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:52.440 line and I think he knows that it keeps him out of prison. He's 815 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:58.079 yeah, he's brilliantly crazy. But I thought it was interesting they because they 816 00:57:58.159 --> 00:58:02.480 kind of talk about the two types of insanity and how you can be guilty 817 00:58:02.639 --> 00:58:07.280 but mentally ill or not guilty because of insanity. But in either scenario you're 818 00:58:07.320 --> 00:58:12.000 gonna go to jail. It's just a question whether or nothing it though. 819 00:58:12.280 --> 00:58:15.039 Yeah, they keep testing it while he's not ready yet. Well i'll push 820 00:58:15.079 --> 00:58:17.519 it next year. Yeah, So that's what he's doing well. I have 821 00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:22.800 an update for you up date. You are correct. It just continues to 822 00:58:22.880 --> 00:58:29.159 get pushed still to this day. So here's the deal. He's in a 823 00:58:29.199 --> 00:58:37.119 hospital, I guess more or less eating balls. Yeah. So in June 824 00:58:37.360 --> 00:58:45.239 of twenty twenty one, that is when the initial lawsuit deposition between the killer 825 00:58:45.599 --> 00:58:49.760 and the businessman. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. 826 00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:55.039 So in that initial hearing in June of twenty twenty one, Mark invoked his 827 00:58:55.239 --> 00:59:00.719 Fifth Amendment rights one hundred and twenty two times. Jesus so literally to every 828 00:59:00.840 --> 00:59:07.039 question that he was asked. He just pled the Fifth back. In January 829 00:59:07.199 --> 00:59:13.199 of two thousand and twenty, he had entered an insanity plea and then in 830 00:59:13.400 --> 00:59:19.079 February a judge had ruled that he was incapable of standing trial. But in 831 00:59:19.280 --> 00:59:23.519 October of twenty twenty, the courts reversed that decision, saying that he would 832 00:59:23.599 --> 00:59:29.440 be able to start trial proceedings. So he has been found competent. The 833 00:59:29.559 --> 00:59:34.400 trial was set to begin in July of twenty twenty one, but as we're 834 00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:37.800 taping this, it still hasn't started yet, and there's some speculation that it 835 00:59:37.880 --> 00:59:42.960 could maybe start in January of twenty twenty two, which is basically when this 836 00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:46.000 episode that we're taping is being released. So it's maybe it's happening like right 837 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:52.639 now, but not not likely, you know. I think those guys always 838 00:59:52.679 --> 00:59:58.480 are good at ulterior motives and ulterior plans. Obviously he wasn't good at planning 839 00:59:58.519 --> 01:00:00.760 out the murder to get away with it. But yeah, one of the 840 01:00:00.840 --> 01:00:06.440 quotes I wrote down, I had never really considered just because you're crazy doesn't 841 01:00:06.480 --> 01:00:09.559 mean you don't know what you're doing right, which I that really is a 842 01:00:09.679 --> 01:00:13.639 brilliant way to think about it, because you think, oh, they're they're 843 01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:16.719 playing guilty by insanity. They were just so crazy they didn't know. But 844 01:00:16.840 --> 01:00:21.639 it's it's not that simple, you know. And again, you could be 845 01:00:21.719 --> 01:00:25.920 crazy, but you do certain things. You you lie about things, you 846 01:00:27.440 --> 01:00:30.480 will change your story. So there's a part of you that does know, 847 01:00:30.960 --> 01:00:32.880 Yeah, what you're doing is wrong, that's the That's the thing. At 848 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:37.760 what point are you so far gone that you don't know the difference between right 849 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:42.159 and wrong? And I don't. I would like to say it would be 850 01:00:42.840 --> 01:00:47.239 you know, a kid that has mental retardation, You know that that might 851 01:00:47.360 --> 01:00:52.519 and I don't. Even then, we all know they know, Yeah, 852 01:00:52.039 --> 01:00:55.159 they know. If they know, well what I just you don't know. 853 01:00:57.159 --> 01:01:00.480 And that's lawyers are paid to get people up. They were they do. 854 01:01:01.360 --> 01:01:07.000 By the way, where we've changed. You asked what the businessman was like 855 01:01:07.119 --> 01:01:10.679 accusing the killer of It was neglect, battery and false in prison neglect. 856 01:01:10.760 --> 01:01:16.280 Worst week in my life. Yeah. Um, he had no must had 857 01:01:16.320 --> 01:01:20.039 tiny little balls. That's why I didn't cut him off. That's the only 858 01:01:20.079 --> 01:01:22.920 reason why. Oh my god, I'm going to a Christmas part. I 859 01:01:22.960 --> 01:01:28.519 got nothing. I gotta cut off your nuts and roast and Kevin Bacon nuts 860 01:01:28.559 --> 01:01:31.599 on open fire. Well, folks, we're not going to top that. 861 01:01:31.920 --> 01:01:35.880 There's no way I'm topping that. I had other topics, but forget it. 862 01:01:36.920 --> 01:01:42.239 Kidding. Great show, a good show, Matthew. I feel like 863 01:01:42.360 --> 01:01:47.079 we paid tribute to both Kevin Bacon's. You know, we told the we 864 01:01:47.159 --> 01:01:50.960 retold the story. We also had some laughs along the way. Yeah, 865 01:01:50.960 --> 01:01:58.119 it's pretty successful. Not loose. Yeah, no, put on your Sunday. 866 01:02:00.360 --> 01:02:04.480 Oh, probably have to take that off. Probably keep the song that 867 01:02:04.519 --> 01:02:06.920 I was thinking. We probably couldn't have to take that down off the internet. 868 01:02:07.079 --> 01:02:10.599 We're keeping it, folks. Thank you all for listening to our show. 869 01:02:10.639 --> 01:02:15.079 We hope you enjoy it. Please give us a nice review, send 870 01:02:15.159 --> 01:02:16.400 us a message, let us know you're out there. I've been getting lots 871 01:02:16.440 --> 01:02:21.559 of tweets from people good. I'm really excited. Everyone's been very nice so 872 01:02:21.679 --> 01:02:23.679 far. Everybody hates me. I love it, I love you. I 873 01:02:23.719 --> 01:02:28.360 love it. I've been having a great job. I have had some people 874 01:02:28.400 --> 01:02:30.400 show up to the shows that hey, we listened to the show. We 875 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:34.079 came to see you because we listened to the show. Thanks funny so and 876 01:02:34.159 --> 01:02:37.119 I've had a couple of people that say, we just listened to the rewind 877 01:02:37.199 --> 01:02:40.440 show and I was like, oh, all right, it doesn't make sense, 878 01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:44.480 but okay, well I think it makes sense. People don't want to 879 01:02:44.559 --> 01:02:50.000 necessarily hear the details about the balls being cut off. And we got better 880 01:02:50.119 --> 01:02:52.800 voices than Mike. I don't know about that. He does have a good 881 01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:55.760 voice. He's got a great voice. Well, hopefully we'll get him back 882 01:02:55.760 --> 01:02:58.440 on the show one of these Yeah, we gotta have well come back on 883 01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:00.559 and tease him a little bit. Yep. But in the meantime we'll just 884 01:03:00.639 --> 01:03:02.719 make fun of each other, all right. See Larry Matthew bag back. 885 01:03:04.840 --> 01:03:07.280 Follow me on Twitter at Matt Fallen to leer. Check out another show I'm 886 01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:12.159 on called The water Cooler sounds fun. Ian's on Twitter at Sarah Ian bag 887 01:03:12.719 --> 01:03:17.320 Bag. Give a listen to Around the Bag starting in a new studio this 888 01:03:17.559 --> 01:03:22.280 January, and we'll started recording in January started they'll be coming out in February, 889 01:03:22.400 --> 01:03:27.000 so go to listen or look at the old podcast and see even new 890 01:03:27.079 --> 01:03:30.400 one starting in February. That's awesome. Again, We love you guys, 891 01:03:30.480 --> 01:03:34.039 thanks for the support. As Mike likes to say, stay safe, and 892 01:03:34.159 --> 01:03:46.360 as I like to say, don't be a douchebag. Yeah. Sort scale 893 01:03:46.519 --> 01:03:50.760 we want is a production of incongruity Media. If you enjoyed the show, 894 01:03:50.880 --> 01:03:53.880 leave us a five star rating and a glowing review. No criticism please, 895 01:03:54.239 --> 01:03:58.400 it hurts our feelings. Be sure to tell your friends about us, but 896 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:01.679 not your family or co workers because I'll think you're weird. Okay, that's 897 01:04:01.719 --> 01:04:04.320 it. Until next time. Don't be a douchebag.