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Now and Now at Night and Ommedia Check October five, twenty twenty three.
Allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, this is the o'celly
effect. And guess what you found it. So, whether you're hearing us
live on the stream or by your final slab of choice, your applicable application,
your podcast, as you're welcome to it. It is Thursday as I
speak, but God knows when and where and what time of day it might
be for you. Uh, either way, welcome. So it is Thursday,
and I was going to have Mike Swanson on, but then it turns
out he is not going to be with me tonight, No problem at all.
That means I get one hour earlier with Larry Hancock. Okay, Larry
is an excellent author of many books. Not going to list him here because
I'm only going to try and keep Larry for an hour, and it would
take me a little while to list and describe all of his books. But
I assure you they are all good, and they're all sitting on my bookshelf.
Okay, they take up more space than any other author on my bookshelf
and definitely do. I had a recent visitor to my home and cool guy
listened to the network for some years now and been an active participant. We
call him Creative Accidents. We'll leave it at that. That's his handle on
Twitter, that's his handle in the chat room, et cetera, et cetera.
And he wanted to stop by and just you know, shake hands and
meet me. So I said, yeah, sure, do it. You're
in making Georgia come on by anyway. Often when I meet with people,
I have this crazy habit of giving out books. I will often gift somebody
with a book. I love it when somebody's interested in an educational topic that
I happen to have some written work related to, especially good written works.
I have given away bad books in the past two to say, look,
you want to read a bad book, here you go. Always good to
educate people about bad books. But this has nothing to do with what I'm
talking about. Because this person specifically started asking me about certain books on the
Kennedy case and then other books on other issues historical and otherwise. And he
wanted one of Larry's books. And I said, oh great, you know
what I have different copies of all kinds of stuff. And indeed, see
look on my shelf. I always say, Larry takes up more space.
There it is. There's his space on my bookshelf. Because I only have
a small bookshelf nowadays. Anyways, look at the space on it, and
yeah, there's all Larry's books. And he, for very personal reasons,
wanted to see Creating Chaos. And I took it out, showed it to
him, and he said, can I have this book? I couldn't give
it to him. I gave him other books. I gave him like four
other books, okay, and one of them was Walt Brown's Judith very Baker
book, which I've given out many times. And I've given out lots of
Larry's books many times, nexus I think the most six or seven of them.
But couldn't give him Creating Chaos because Larry had personally inscribed that one to
me and I wanted to keep that. I'm gonna keep that. Felt bad.
But before he even left, before the conversation was over, he ordered
one online for himself anyway, so I know he's gonna get it. He
had to get it, and it is an essential book. But Creating Chaos,
Surprise Attack, Shadow Warfare, some of them co authored, some of
them authored by Larry Hancock. Quite often, as we found out on the
show, maybe Missus Hancock gives him ideas about how to title the books sometimes.
Anyway, that's something we learned, but we learn a lot every time
Larry Hancock is on, and I'm so glad he's with us tonight. And
what are we going to talk about? Oh shocker, We're gonna talk about
the Lancer conference coming up, which you guys have been hearing about, and
I am doing shows on and I will do more of them. But since
Larry and I will both be in Dallas that weekend, both at the conference,
you know, great again to see you there, Larry. I'm gonna
be really happy because I haven't seen you in about six years face to face,
twenty seventeen. It's really great, and I'm so happy to have you
here as often as I do. I'm really lucky and I really want to
thank you for that. But that's that's what tonight's topic is, folks.
Anyway, Creating Chaos has nothing to do with the Kennedy assassination, although I
did also personally ask Larry if you would sign my copy of someone would have
talked because I have an old, beat up one that I just I just
want Larry to sign. So I'm going to get another little inscription on a
book, and that'll be another one that I can't give away. Larry.
Sorry, I can't give away your books all the time. But more than
happy to get you another sale, more than happy to tell people go buy
your stuff. You know, in denial, I advertise that book constantly.
I support endorse all your work and really happy to have you with us,
and more than please to discuss the JFK conference, but the case in general
everything. How you doing tonight, sir, I'm doing fine, Chuck.
And I have the same problems too. I used to have a stash of
different books and somebody would write me and say, how can I get an
autograph copy? And it's like, well, that's fine, I'll do that
and mail it to you. But now I'm down to the point where I'm
not sure that I have duplicates of anything. It's like, well, you
know, if you really want it, you're gonna have to order it off
Amazon. You're gonna have to mail it to me, you know. It's
like, but that's the way it is. The time Lancer was selling,
I would autograph copies for them and you could buy it from Lancer Direct and
then you could get on an autograph copy. But that's right. You know,
we've been doing this for a long time. This is the sixtieth anniversary.
The conferences have been going on for a couple of decades now, and
I guess we're kind of using up our reserves. Well there's that. Plus,
you know what if you go to the Lancer conference, okay, which
is in November, and we're going to give you the date exact here before
we're done, I'm sure more than once. But if you go there,
Larry, you'll be more than happy to sign a copy of a book.
I'm sure you'd be more than happy to meet and greet people who have read
your stuff in person. So there's an opportunity for people to get that if
that's what they want. But yeah, it's become strange. I used to
you know, look, let me get honest here. I mean a lot
of times I went to library sales and stuff like that, and I used
to just when I would show up at gatherings of any kind, even the
weird impromptu things at Walt Brown's House, which I talked about just this past
week on the show where you know, the weekend of the assassination. What
would just say to people who were subscribed to Deep Politics quarterly. You know,
if you're in New Jersey, you want to come see me, Come
on and see us November, you know, Dallas in New Jersey or what
I forget what he called it, but it was like, right, you
know, come and see us and sit down. And I would show up
there with a box full of my you know, used gifts. You know.
People would buy me a gift a new book. Hey, you got
this new JFK book. I bought it for you, Thank you, thank
you. I've got two of them at home already, you know. And
and I would do that or go to the library sales or flea markets and
I would pick up all kinds of books. And I would show up at
a place like Walts House and just say, hey, is anybody you know
in need of any of these books? You didn't get them yet? I
got some here, you can have them. I used to love to do
that. And some people would give me one of their books that they wrote,
or some people would give me, Hey, I happen to have two
copies of this. I used to love trading a bit. I know most
most young people, uh, baseball cards, right, but no, not
me. Books. So and I did play with baseball cards too for a
little bit. But the thing is, I thought that that was a great
way to just sort of share information and to collectively, you know, educate
people about what was going on in the literature, advances, et cetera,
about the subject I cared about. But anyway, that's why I'm really pleased
to participate in this again this year. I've done it virtually a couple of
times, you know, and and look, it's a good thing that we
still do this. I found the interesting comments you made to me in a
text earlier today. I don't know if you want to talk about it,
but about the sort of you know, idea that there's this almost a community,
you know, minus some of the perks that might come along with a
real little club sort of right, you know, that comes together weirdly,
and and and there's sub you know, sub communities, like subcultures of the
culture of this this really interesting little niche that has been working now for decades
one way or another in search of what right, the the historical reality,
the truth of a situation that we were not satisfied with the government's explanation,
and effectively to begin with. It's turned into a lot of other things now,
but I mean that's what it was to start with, a bunch of
people that sort of knew each other. At one point, Warren commissioned critics
so to speak, before you or I ever started on it. And then
nowadays it's evolved into this and interesting, We're going to have a super young
speaker, I think the youngest speaker I've ever heard of at one of these
conferences this year, so I can't wait to get into that. But anyway,
enough out of me, Larry, if you want to talk about this,
you know, the community, the idea of or the sort of collected
culture or click if you will, of it all, which you know,
for the most part, I was parts of little sub clicks here and there,
but never really part of the major thing. I ever felt that way.
I always felt like an outsider. But definitely I'm participating this year in
a way because I'm going to be like in front of everybody's presentation, not
talking this much, trying to give quick and concise introductions to to the very
valuable speakers. And it's really a good list this year. So you know
where you want to go from here, Larry, I turned it over to
you. Well, yeah, I think something to consider and it is a
good list. We there are more presenters scheduled this year than ever before.
And one of the things that makes that possible, I will say, when
I first started doing conferences in Dallas back in the early nineties, mid nineties,
you know, it was all in person. Every speaker was there.
If a speaker couldn't make it, you know, you didn't have them on
the roster. And of course the absolute, the absolute panic would be when
you you know, we're looking for the next speaker. I can remember calling
the hotel desk and going, well, you know, are they have they
even checked in and being told, well, no, they haven't checked in,
like oh, panic and having to to redo the agenda constantly, you
know, reshuffle and schedule. And these days it's our presenters are in person
and they are virtual, which actually gives us a lot more leeway. We
can have a lot more people involved than we would have otherwise because travel is
in a mandatory requirement. So that's changed the nature of the game also,
And I think the other thing that's changed it is the information becomes available for
long term access. Now when you sign up for the conference, you have
options. If you're not able to listen in person or even remotely to a
particular session, it will be archived and you can go back and listen to
it for a couple of months, or if you pay another fee, you
can get it like forever. And that removes one of the big factors because
one of the one of the challenges always was you'd listen to some one's presentation,
you'd get really excited about what they said, you may be read their
book, whatever, and then you would corner them in the hallway afterwards after
their presentation, when they're coming out and actually probably don't want to talk to
anybody, and you drag them over and start a conversation, and before you
realized that you'd miss the next presentation. Okay, So the good news about
the whole thing is the content is much more accessible than it was in the
old days. You can be there in person or remotely. So conferences have
really changed in that regard over the year. And I think, well,
we'll actually be talking on one of the presentations that I'm involved in with Rex
Bradford and Stu Wexler's will be talking about how access to information, primarily access
to documents and resources has changed so much, so dramatically over the years.
I can remember or a conference oh ages ago where we had a ground breaking
presentation. Rex Badford got up and presented on the HTML coding language and the
concept of PDFs where you could actually take documents, hang them on a site
that somebody could access and read them there. And we were just not that
it had ever been done. But you know, some of the things that
we take for granted was you know in those days. The other thing that
happened is you took documents to the conference. I can remember taking taking making
copies of oh like two hundred pages of documents and taking them down to Dallas
and Deborah Conway would you know, copy them, buying them in a little
booklet and pass them out or make them available. So are access to information
is dramatically and it's reflected in the conference. I think it makes the conferences.
It certainly adds more flexibility, but were people attending the conference? True?
But I do miss the days of the you know, of getting a
hold of those things even afterwards, those would become the souvenirs afterwards too.
You know, if you were at a conference, not just the program,
but you had here's the sheets from this presentation and that, and people would
share those things afterwards. I mean there's an appreciable thing to that too.
Of course, the pain in the neck of trying to get a hold of
all the VHS copies of the presentations, okay, another problem. Okay,
then later DVD is still another problem, and knowing which ones were which,
and oh please, you know, and and I talked to Rex on this
show about the process of beginning to scan Mary ferrell stuff, right, okay,
you know, just getting that work really rolling. The the Mary Farrell
Foundation website exists today, but you know, there was a time when that
wasn't there. And you know, there was just this stuff that Mary herself
had, and then there was many collections other people had, and you know,
you could maybe write to somebody and ask him, hey, can I
pay you to copy these things or whatever, you know, and et cetera,
et cetera. I mean, we exchanged a lot of paper back in
those days. I mean, it's just in a way that's kind of taken
a little of the fun out of it, or maybe some of the mystery.
I can I can remember a period of time where all of us referred
to Malcolm Blunt as Malcolm the Spy, because Malcolm is a British researcher and
probably spent more time in the American National Archives than anyone else in the universe.
And you'd show and he was very you know, he's a very quiet
person, very you know, and you'd show up at a conference and if
you got to know him, he would, you know, he would gesture
to you, and like I said, he'd be behind up plant or over
in a corner and you go over and Malcolm would go here, and he
pull out of his his jacket pocket, you know, some documents like okay,
this is like spy versus spy stuff, and you go and this is
really exciting, you know, and that that that did add a certain flavor,
Chuck as you're saying to it, that you know, that's got a
different flavor than logging into Mary Ferrell and you know, downloading the p a
pdf. You know. So and now, of course Malcolm's all of Malcolm's
hundreds of thousands of pages of documents have been put online by part Camp and
which is great, but it's a it's it's certain, there are certain elements
of mystery. And you know, I can remember being online with compu Serve
back in the early days with the Con't You Serve Forum, and and people
would be nervous about going to the conference in Dallas, like, well,
well somebody be watching us, you know, somebody followed me from the airport.
We know, we're not supposed to know the stuff that the government knows,
so should we be nervous? And then I remember in one early conference
getting to the conference room and Deborah Conway wasn't there, and she was supposed
to open a session, and finally she comes in and Deborah goes, well
the elevator just fell four floors and we all went, oh gosh, all
right, you know, and then there was a bomb thread. You know,
Okay, so we don't we don't have that sort of stuff anymore.
I guess that's good, but it has lost a little flavor. Well yeah,
I mean, and there was also the days of getting you know,
the next Chain letter together, you know, Vince Solandria's group. Somebody staples
a new page to it and makes another turn through, and you know you
anxiously await that to show up in your mailbox. Right, there's that too,
and even cassette tapes that we mailed to each other of different things.
Look, I got this, I got this piece of that. Somebody recorded
a television program on a cassette, so on and so forth. You never
knew what you might get depending on what circle of friends you had at any
given time. But I was certainly in the again, you know, from
New Jersey and part of like the New York contingent at one point. It
was it was really interesting, you know, the kind of stuff that we
exchanged, and and I knew some of the most profoundly paranoid people in the
world. So believe me, there's lots of this. You know, this
is coming up. People are watching us, and it's not like that anymore.
Now we know they are watching us everywhere we go. The NSA's got
it all anyway, so you know, nobody's nervous about it, because what
are you gonna do? They're watching everyone, So you know, I guess,
I guess we just had to get over that. But I think the
other thing, and another aspect of being there in person is the fact that,
as you said, social networks did develop, right, you met people
that you know, you could have more in depth exchanges with. And actually
I know several teams essentially that were formed that way, Guys that would work
together, people that would work together for years after meeting in a conference and
would work with each other during the year. And there were books written and
work done that really came from the formation of those of those social networks.
And that's that's hard to do with just messaging on Facebook or through a form
or whatever. You can chat a little bit, but nothing beats that kind
of connection at the conference. So this year I will say that we're fortunate
this year and kind of looking through the list of the presenters, most of
the presenters are in person, which is great considering the trouble we faced in
recent years. And I just presented to a conference at Canterbury in England to
day Plaza UK group, and virtually all of their attendees were still remote I
think there were. When I went over there in person several years ago,
there were probably fifty people in the room and all the speakers were in person,
and this year there were probably you know, twenty people in the room
twice that many setting in remotely, and I think they only had two in
person speakers. So we feel happy to have as many in person speakers as
we do in Dallas. Obviously, it's the sixtieth anniversary. I've got to
say I would not be going back most likely if it were not the sixtieth
anniversary at my age and everything else. So the six sixtieth has been a
real seminal date and I think is going to make for an excellent attendance.
And that has something to do with it. Certainly it did for the fiftieth,
right, and the evolution of all this, by the way, is
something that should be recognized considering that, I mean, the sixtieth looks a
hell of a lot than it did at the thirtieth, for sure, than
it did at the fortieth. I mean, the remarkable stuff that went on
around the fortieth anniversary. And again I'm hoping actually to have some of those
teams come together once again. I'm hoping to see that kind of thing happen,
because so far I'm getting signals that there is going to be a significant
contingent of people in person. I'm really happy about that. I'm going to
be one of them, and I'm going to be bringing lots of lots of
little merch stuff that I'm hoping to give away for people that support the network,
and you know, they come and kick something in and help me get
back home, you know, help me with the gas money on the way
home. I mean, I've got I've got a couple of presents for you,
Larry, by the way, just so you know, they're already put
aside, and I'm not looking for a donation from you, but you know,
but as for everybody else, I mean, I'm hoping that we're going
to be able to spread the word and spread our ideas and really actually cross
pollinate with one another and maybe, you know, accomplish some new things because
unfortunately, even though there was a bit of a different flavor and there was
something else to the older way, we have the tools. Now, we
have the multiplication of force, We have the force multipliers to really accomplish a
great deal more. I mean, the idea that you can work with someone
on another continent, you know, almost in real time or in real time
depending on your circumstances, right, is quite remarkable and could accomplish a great
deal more than frankly I've seen accomplished before. We just have to get to
it. We have to get the right people, We have to get on
the right angles here, and I would love to see I don't care who
does it even, you know, I would just love to see it done
more and more. And I think we really stand a chance, especially given
you know, the the the right away access. I mean, think about
this, the idea that the government dumps a bunch of documents out and we
might see them a little early or the same day. If we want to
download them and go through them ourselves, we can, you know, we
can really deal with things in real time now, as opposed to well,
okay, now I've got to wait the next sixty ninety one and twenty days
for everybody to get their documents, for everybody to actually have the time to
physically go through these things, et cetera, et cetera, you know,
for people to make their treks, their journeys, their pilgrimages to the National
Archives, et cetera, et cetera, or whatever it is. Right,
So, I don't know, I think this presents a remarkable time when we
could accomplish a lot more together. And I'd love to see that done.
So speaking of the speakers and all that, since we've taken time to reminisce
quite a bit, I don't know if you want to get straight away into
the list of speakers, because there's a lot of them, and yeah,
if you want to talk about that. I'm looking for my document. I
thought I had it open that that gas you just sent me, and now
I can't find it. Of course, yeah, let me run through that.
I think it's exciting. Dick Russell will be opening up a couple of
structural things about the conference. The conference starts at noon on Friday on Friday,
yes, okay, And it's noon on Friday and in the evening on
Friday, all day Saturday, and then there's a banquet and then all day
Sunday. So it's a relatively long conference. This is much more similar to
what we did on the fiftieth anniversary. In addition, there are no schedule
breaks, including lunch breaks. There's some box lunches that Gabby has worked on
making available. But the point is what we've tried to do is structure it
so that we can have as many speakers as possible, and you just really
can't do that. One of the third things I learned earnly on is if
if you say, well we're going to have a fifty minute break for you
know, bathroom break, everybody will be back in the room in forty five
minutes. You know, you just you can't do that doesn't work logistically.
So the structure is once it starts, it's just ongoing. The only the
only real break is for a banquet on Saturday evening, and even during the
bank banquet we will have people talking. It won't be just a banquet,
but Dick Russell will be opening it up and he will be talking about his
review on what's new in the files and some other information. Of course,
Dick is a very well known person in the field that's been around with his
work on Richard case Magel, but on on other things. One of the
things that's kind of fascinating is that Dick has been in this for so long
that he was the first person that I'm aware of, that ever walked into
in Moscow and to KGB or AGB headquarters and ask if he could see their
files on Lee Harvey Oswald. And as I've heard Dick say in person,
it's sort of like I went in and I wasn't really sure I would be
coming out or when I would be coming out. But fortunately at that point
in time it was a little easier than it might be now to be in
Moscow, and he did. But Rick Dick is a great one to give
a long term view of what we know now versus what we didn't know then.
Absolutely great presenter. I mean, the man who knew too much on
the trail of the assassins, just to name a couple of pieces of work
he did, plus all of his work with Jesse Ventura. I mean,
come on, you know, this is a guy who's got a long history
and again has done some amazing stuff. So I mean opening right up with
you know, putting you know, I don't know if that's the best foot,
but definitely a good foot forward. Dick Russell perfect at noontime, and
I like that it's opening at noon, not a morning guy, Larry,
Yes, I do too. Actually, I'll be driving down that morning,
so I don't know if I'll be there in time for Drick Dick session or
not, but I plan to be there Thursday, so I definitely will be
there for for Dick and the whole thing. So looking forward to it.
But go ahead, Larry, Sorry, another sampling of some of the things
that are going on Friday afternoon and Friday evening. We have a lady Monica
Perez Jimenez that will be speaking and uh, she is very interesting in light
of having been the being the daughter of Castro's mistress and uh, chuck,
you probably remember who that would be, uh, lady named Lopez. Uh.
And she will be talking about her mother and about her experiences and obviously
that's fascinating from a historical perspective. Uh, there are a lot of a
lot of opinions and a lot of being written about that. It will be
very interesting to hear more of an insider approach of at least what she heard
from her mother. And then Carmine, who your listeners, I'm sure everybody
will be familiar with. We'll be talking about the destruction, official destruction and
alteration of evidence. I kind of like that title. It's kind of like,
okay, Carmine, so they did this officially? Okay, Yeah,
Look, there's a lot more besides Hosty. And the name you're looking for
I think is Marita, right, yes, Marita, So Marita Lopez.
And there's an interesting one not often paid attention to in a lot of the
earlier media Marina Lopez, though you know, there was other women that were
paid attention to that had proximity to Castro. So I mean, I'm looking
really forward to Monica Perez yu Menez because that ought to be fascinating. Title
they give her to here is the Dictator's daughter, is the title of her
presentation. This is tentative, but still yeah, and she was and this
is a different dictator than you might have imagined. I'm pretty sure the way
this story goes, of course her her Well, that's why I said proximity.
Yeah, that's why I said proximity to. Yeah, good, Sorry,
was Fidel Castro. But in nineteen sixty three, Mariita had also been
seeing another Latin American dictator and was involved in a paternity suit. And I
have some fascinating Miami headline article, you know, newspaper headlines with with her
like number one, center of the stage because she had photographers following around because
of this fraternity suit. Of course, she's very attractive lady and made very
good camera copy. So you know, uh, Mariita had had a lot
going on for several years that made her a fascinating subject. So I don't
know which parts her daughter will be talking about, but she has a lot
of material that she could address exactly. No, it'll be just fast to
see what it is she brings out. So moving moving ahead though, like
you said, Carmine, okay, official destruction of documentation. So I get
the point of that. And that's going to be one of his meticulous jobs
where he again as he's done many times and on this show and not recently,
although I am trying to get Carmine back on before the conference. I
want you guys to know that. But but the thing is, it's really
interesting when he tracks this stuff down. He's rather meticulous about it. So
he's gonna come up with a lot of documentation that will support what his thesis
is. I'm certain, uh, And he's going to be doing that virtually,
which I kind of wish he was going there again, But we have
Carmine virtually, that's what it is. And then the next one's in person.
Now we don't know exactly what Casey is gonna do. Casey Quinlan,
right or do you do you have any insight on that? Or well,
no, I don't. I have some insight on a few of the others,
but not not Casey. We it's still there's still you know, it's
the way it always is and all has been from the years that's been involved.
Gabriella is still wrestling with certain speakers who just cannot yet decide which topic
that they want to give. So now we're not sure about Casey's been presenting
in Dallas for a couple of decades, so it's not like he won't have
I suspect his trouble is coming up with which one he wants to do well.
Right, And here's the thing, really quickly, you know, somebody
asked me earlier today why I'm not on the list. It's because somebody's already
covering the topic I was going to cover. I just want that known.
But Casey'll also probably have to take a look at what other people are covering,
and he did that before. I think he made a move where he
changed last minute because it was like, well, I don't want to be
redundant with another presenter. So that's kind of a good thing, even though
it's pain in the neck for Gabriella. So anyway, a couple of others
just sampling this afternoon. Paul Blue will be presenting Paul's out of Canada,
and people may have seen a lot of him online. I don't know if
he's been on your show, Chuck, but yeah, he has several topics
and I think he's going to be addressing some legal issues related to Lee Harvey
Oswald that are very suggestive that there was a conspiracy in play, which is
interesting because Paul looks at the subject differently than a lot of people do,
so he often comes in with kind of a tangential set of commentary and you
go, oh, why didn't I think of that before? And right now
we're not sure if Paul is going to be virtual or in person according to
the sheet, so you know, if you've pretty sure that he will be
there in person. He was in Canterbury on Sunday morning when I spoke to
them, and he seemed to suggest that he's still His intention was to be
in Dallas unless he got He could have gotten lost on the way home,
who knows, but well, looking forward to that and the next one coming
up. You know what, I'm not familiar with Jeff Meek off the top
of my head. Maybe maybe I've seen him somewhere and don't know him off
the top of my head, but I am clearly fascinated by the topic he's
covering. Though, go ahead and talk about Jeff Meek real quick. I
am too, because Jeff will be talking about Buddy Walters. And I've seen
some of the things that Jeff has written about Buddy Walters, and it's a
it's a really fascinating subject. I spent a lot of time on this myself.
At one point I talked with Walter's partner. I talked with the son
who was in Dally Plaza with his parents of the people that saw someone one
pick a bullet up. Oh yeah, that whole family. That whole family
there, right, That was that whole family. I mean, this is
this is one of the least discussed and most significant parts of what happened to
Daly Plaza. And it's great to have Jeff bring it up again. Not
that there have never been presentations on it before, but for some reason,
it just doesn't seem to come back and view. One of the things that
fascinates me is we know there's a picture of a crime scene evidence kit,
one of their little portable forensics kits, setting by in the south side of
the street by where this bullet was reportedly found, and they've clearly positioned it
so that they're taking a picture back towards the school book depository or towards the
corner at least that would suggest the direction of the bullet. And we know
that there is a Dallas police report from an officer who took the information from
these people. But what is lacking from the whole thing is, so where
is that CSI report. We know they were there, they took a picture,
but we have nothing about an official inquiry. We just know that a
police officer sent them there. It's a total hole in the evidence, and
I hope Jeff has turned up something more, because this is one of the
best documented and least covered items as far as the shooting goes. I have
not seen somebody put in significant effort on this since Mark Oaks in the nineties,
okay, and when he did a whole video on it with the mystery
FBI man and all. That's what he called it, and it was a
significant study. He went and did videos, interviews, tried to track things
down, documents, used photographs. He did a lot of work. But
I haven't seen anybody now. People mention it all the time, but I
have not seen significant work on this, not long time, not in years,
right, I agree. So and following Jeff, we will have David
Boyle and presenting and I will be up at the table with him, and
we're going to have a bit of a new insight on Sylvia Odio and her
visitors and who they might have been and why they might have been there.
Revolves around some fascinating new documents that David have has discovered which cast an entirely
a new light on that visit as to as to the motivations and the people
involved. And so I'm not going to reveal anything more on that, but
I was. I was shocked when he start sent me the documents as to
oh gosh, they said they were from Jura and Gollie Ge. It looks
like they might have been telling her the truth. Interesting. But there are
the things that go along with that so well, everything from everything from the
memorialization of that in the JFK movie okay, or the dramatization of it right
onto the many legends. There's a lot to that to unpack. So I
can't wait to see what happens there. And he's followed, I mean,
you know, he's a good guy. He's been on here. He's followed
by somebody who I think is you know, sorry, essential, Okay,
he's as essential to reading on the cases you are, which is William Matts
in Law, the author of the I in you Know, in the Eye
of History, various other smaller books. I'm actually going to have a couple
of his books with me. I didn't know if he was going in person,
but I'm going to have a couple of his books with me to offer
to people as well. And he is William matts in Law. If you
don't know him, I guess you haven't been reading about the Kennedy case very
long, and you certainly didn't do a lot of reading on the medical evidence.
Huh. His massively important work has to do with the autopsy and a
different perspective of the autopsy from the FBI agents that were the observers. Can't
recogmend the book too much. Not sure about what he will be talking about.
I spoke with him as recently as two weeks ago and he still hadn't
decided, so, you know, but again, yeah, but whatever whatever
William Matts in Law decides to present, it's going to be solid, and
he's the last presenter for that day, right, Yes, we have as
the first presenter for the next day, as much as I hate thinking about
getting up that early, would be myself and David Boyling, and we will
have a presentation titled Entangling Oswald, which is a new and contrarian view to
some extent of how Oswald became involved with the conspiracy and as of June,
became involved with a number of people that led him to Dallas, And in
particular we will address the question of what did Lee Oswald think was going to
happen on November twenty second, which is a perennial question. We can't give
you a one hundred percent sure answer, but we can give you a sort
of fascinating answer that very few people discuss as to what might have been in
his mind on that day as to what he thought was actually going down.
Well, being defended without a time machine might be difficult, but I think
you guys, you know, and you've hinted at this over the past year
on this show about taking a new look at things, so that in and
of itself is going to be important. And you me, David and a
cup of big cup of coffee for me. Actually will be there at nine
am to get things rolling on that Saturday. So you are followed by John
Davies. Now that name sounds familiar, but but go ahead and tell us
a lot most people won't know. John. John is was a career marine.
John will has been for about the last three years, and he and
I have had a lot of discussions. He's a good friend of mine.
Has been researching a very factual treatment of the national security response on November twenty
second. What did the US do, what did what happened in Europe,
what happened in Russia, what happened in Cuba? What was really the total
national security response to the assassination? And he will give be giving his research
and as I say, this will be a culmination of about a three year
project for him. John is minute in his detail, meticulous, and I'm
looking forward to it because it's just something that you would have seen before,
right And I was saying, he sounds familiar, but he's not familiar to
me. And that's the thing. I know he's right in your wheelhouse based
on the description because the description literally reads the national security response during the assassination,
which is exactly the kind of thing that Larry Hankock writes about all the
time. It almost seems like, you know, this is somebody doing a
presentation that might even more inform your work dependent So the last person we had
present on this was years and years ago. Is Larry Happening, a name
that's known to maybe to many researchers. And John is also work very closely
with Larry on doing this. And John will be followed by Rex Bradford and
Rex. Rex will do a presentation and then there will be a bit of
a roundtable discussion of the state of JFK records as they are in twenty twenty
three, compared to what they have been, what really is available, what's
not available, and the changes in accessing those records over the years. And
Stu is a great one to have in that panel because even when Stu and
I first started working together, the only way that you could get a document
was to either request it by mail or to go to the archives and dig
it out. Nothing was available online. So they will I think that'll be
very informative maybe for some of the newer people in this. Then they will
be followed by Rob Kark and Joe BURRELLI who will be talking about the Martins
And I'm really not sure what's involved in that. Yeah, well, Rob,
you might be familiar with listeners if you know the Lone Gunman podcast,
that's for sure. And he's definitely an interesting guy. I'm sure it'll be
an interesting presentation. And which Martin's will he be talking about? I have
not communicated with him, so we'll find out, because there's more than one
possible Martin now and then immediately followed by because that's Joe Barelli's with him as
well, immediately followed who do we got? Well, the vice president of
the Mary Farrell Foundation, I think last I checked, and also one of
the best media mouthpieces out there for us. Okay, you know on this
side of the equation, Jefferson Morley obviously with his media background. Now what's
interesting here is we're not sure, according to this if he's going to be
in person or virtual, and we're also not sure what topic he could discuss.
But again, there's another guy who could, you know, probably pull
ten things out at the last minute and decide to give us something great.
So there it is, and I've been talking with Jeff and I it's all
very situational, Jeff will be talking about what's the newest thing that's come to
surface. I mean that's it will be. What he might put on the
list now might be entirely different from three weeks from now. You know.
What he posted about today was the fact finding a document that actually is a
new document that I never seen, that confirmed that they were holding the names
of CIA employees in Mexico City who had taken surveillance photographs of Lee Harvey Oswald's
right and their names were being withheld and are still redacted. And that's that's
pretty explosive, depending upon what that might be. But so Jeff will be,
Jeff will do whatever Jeff is doing. By November twenty, you know,
the meeting, and we have a very controversial one that's going to be
coming up. Someone I've worked with and Chuck, you know him, Greg
DOWDNA. We'll be talking about the general Walker shooting, exactly the subject he
covered on this show in part uh. But I'm sure he's got more and
it's going to be really interesting. I look forward to it, and I
don't care who it upsets, because I think it's time to take a second,
A third and fifteenth look at everything in fact, because Greg is gonna
and I think Greg is going to do a solid job of it. I'm
looking forward to it. Now there's this other guy, Oh, Larry Hancock
again. Yeah, oh if Greg doesn't. If Greg doesn't, what I'm
really hoping for is that all the fruit will be thrown at Greg before they
get to the next the panel on the General Walker shooting, where Doug Campbell,
Eye and David will be talking about it, so there's nothing left to
throw at us. But I'm pretty sure that we'll offer some control contraryan thoughts
to follow Greg and uh that it would no doubt be lively so well,
and I would like, I would like and will kind of take the consequences,
and I would like to volunteer to join you on that panel if if
nothing else, to give them something else to throw stuff at, I'll go
for it. And uh, I would just love to be involved in the
discussion and maybe ask some questions because if you don't get immediate crowd participation,
you know, I'm more than happy to provide questions. So you can be
the interlocketor and you should set out front of the table so that you're oh
yeah, I'll get hit cry it's mine and no matter what, I won't
see it coming. It's it's all good. And look, Doug Campbell is
going to join you, h of course. Uh. David David Boylan again.
Uh. And that's what it says here. But who knows. Maybe
there'll be some additions. And like I said, I'll volunteer to take some
of the the the hurling fruit, no problem after that. An interesting guy
too, uh. And and now his topic a little open. In general,
I guess it's going to be another state of the state regarding the research
and the research community or the developments, et cetera. The overview looks like
to me because it just says assassination sixty next to Johnny Carnes. Yeah,
yep, and that's I think that's the right take on it. I really
have not seen any details myself, but I think it will be the state
of research at the sixtieth, which is that that'll be leading right up to
the banquet, So it's a a then we'll have Robert Nelson talking about the
Don Rental story. But this is a good way to set up for the
banquet because the evening is all devoted to the banquet, and we will actually
have three people speaking at the banquet. I'll keynote it with some remarks about
also about the evolution of the research community, the first generation research or second
generation whatever generation we are now just kind of a contextual thing. And actually
Rex Bradford will follow me to give an extended discussion of what's available now in
terms of the documents, what's really there, what's not really there, and
probably certainly the best overall view of what's been accomplished in terms of documentation and
how do you get to it. And he will be followed by Robert Groden,
and so Robert Groden will kind of wrap up the banquet. We'll have
some awards, but Grodan will wrap up the banquet talking about his kind of
his inside view working with the HSCA. So a lot of the banquet is
devoted to what we've managed to accomplish by the sixtieth anniversary and what we've had
to go through to get there right, and really an excellent array there because
Bob, you know depth, and Lee you'll give you an idea about media
presentation stuff like that. You as the context man, I always turned to
you for context, and Rex as the well, the guy who's really done
a lot of the evolution, uh, you know, the the incredible amount
of work he had to do to to get certain things rolling and to be
in support of so many different things. I mean a lot of people don't
recognize how much work Rex is put in. But if you don't know,
then you don't know how much work has been put in. I mean it's
just that simple. So look, that's great, and moving through to banquet,
it all sounds good, some awards this and that, but then we
still got Sunday left, and it kicks off interestingly with this this guy that
you know people might have heard of listening to this show, and that's mister
Swanson. Now I know for a fact I just communicated with Mike before we
went to air about his topic. You know, I know it's going to
be thoughtful. I might see if he wants me to participate with him on
that, but I'll definitely introduce although again with a cup of coffee, because
he's kicking it off at nine am on Sunday, so whatever he says he
will be followed. But by the time people are awake at ten am to
hear Bart Camp talk about prayer, Man and his new book, and Oswald
in the doorway or not in the doorway, or Oswell in the second floor,
not on the second floor. If everybody hasn't had significant coffee by that
time, they really needed to have because keeping up with Bart is an art
form. I mean, you need to have all your wits about you well.
And look, people are going to get a lot of their anger out
of their system and their frustration, I think, because prayer Man's a rather
controversial topic. Even I am, you know, I'm in a strange way
about that one. I mean, I hear a lot of good things about
this book, and I have not read it yet, you know. And
I hear a lot of good things about Bart's work, et cetera. And
I've seen a little bits and pieces of this and that. But I am
going to have to be paying attention now. He's doing this virtually, but
I think people will be interested in what he has to say one way or
another, no matter how you view prayer Man. And I am certainly not
on the side. I mean, really, I feel like it is just
a fuzzy picture. Bart makes another case, and he doesn't do it with
just the photographs. This isn't just a photograph being shoved in your face.
So there's something to it, people and people. I have read the book
and I think he's done something of a a I won't say at disservice,
but the book is much broad basically because this is a controversial subject. Bert
Bart doesn't. But what Bart does is give you all of the testimony and
the remarks and the observations from basically everyone in and around the school book depository
who had something to offer. And one of the things that jumps out immediately
are they're into conflicts. Yes, And he doesn't really manage that in a
way. He kind of presents them. He calls out where the conflicts are
and then you have to make your own decisions. See. But that's what
I love about Well, you're really not about just the person in the doorway
or the fuzzy picture. See. But that's what I love about, you
know. William matts in Law's work is that he presents stuff and doesn't drag
you to a conclusion. Here it is, even if it's conflicted. Larry
Sneed did the same thing when he interviewed all the police in that book,
No More Silence right where it's like, look, I just did the interviews.
I got what I could get. There are conflicts here, but here
they are, So I look forward to this and then immediately after that,
okay, the virtual presentation. We have the young man. Now, he's
been on the show already, Alex Harris, fascinating young man. By the
time he does this, he's going to be fourteen. He's thirteen now or
I'm not sure when his birthday is, was, whatever, But the thing
is, by the time he presents, he'll be fourteen. And that's the
youngest presenter I think I've ever seen. And he's going to talk about the
DCA film okay, which he's not working off of, just one crap copy
he got off of the internet. I have definitely had some conversations with him
off air, including you know, and on air about what it is he's
working with. I'm fascinated by this young man in his attention to detail and
his really a careful work so far. Okay, So he's not just you
know, some kid that somebody's putting up there and this is, you know,
a joke. He's a serious guy. He's a serious presenter and thus
far, I'm looking forward to seeing what he does now obviously, but the
future is well, he's got more years than you and me, Larry to
do things. Yes he does, and I'm good, I mean, And
just to spot through because I'm running a little short of time, but just
to give you a feel for the rest of Sunday, you'll have people like
Bill Simpitch. His topic is twelve Persons of Interest, and I know from
talking with Bill, basically these are twelve people in Dallas who they are persons
of interest. They did things that are not easily explainable. They seem to
be contradictory to some extent. There it's a kind of what Bart is doing
in the school with depository. There are people that handle evidence or that you
know, you have to wonder what's going on. Did they make mistakes or
are they doing this intentionally? Were they part of planning evidence? And this
is what Bill. Bill will be talking about and this has been a major
focus of his for several years, I know. And then he will be
followed by sessions from both Janet and Robert Grodin, who will we'll talk about
their work. Obviously, films and photography comes makes a major part of what
they discussed because of Robert's collection another a couple of people that will be speaking
that I do have a clue as to their topics. I know that Larry
Schnapp will be talking about the state of the Mary Farrell Foundation lawsuit against the
Biden administration and the National Archives and where we are with that, and that's
something that's been in progress for own more than a year and has the lawyers
second time to go right, he's the lawyer sitting second chair in that lawsuit.
So yeah, absolutely looking forward to that go ahead, and we'll have
Alan Dale and John Newman, and Alan will be interviewing John, and I
what John is going to talk about, because I've talked to Alan and John
talked to Alan. It's kind of like talking about Jeff Morley. You know,
it's it's going to be whatever John is focusing on when Allen interviews him,
right, because at this point in time, John is just pretty situational.
Whatever has got his interest is what he's going to be talking about.
And it will obviously be interesting because everything that John talks about is interesting.
But you know, we would be foolish to put a topic down there because
just as with Jeff, you know, it's it's whatever is when that session
occurs and Brett Holland and Stu Wexler will both be talking on Sunday. I
don't Actually I should be in touch with Stu by now and know what he's
talking about, but I don't. But it will. It will be a
full day on Sunday, so there will be really quick now, really quickly.
Brent Holland is going to be talking about Ted Sorenson and JFK. Brent
Holland of course interview Ted Sorenson for his book and all that, so he'll
be talking about the speech writer obviously a speech writer and friend of John F.
Kennedy, so that ought to be intimate portrait time. And also you
skipped over James Corbett on the list, which, by the bye, I'm
looking forward to this, even though it's going to be virtual JFK from Mongoos
to Gladio. That's a hell of a piece of context work that is going
to be fascinating from James, who is you know, uniquely positioned there media
wise, of course, Brent and James are both you know, constant content
creators of sorts. James is probably one of the hardest working guys in independent
media period. Uh, And I look forward to the fact that I was
really glad to have introduced him kind of to the Lancer pool a couple of
years ago so he could talk about JFK and the silver certificate thing. But
this ought to be fascinating. And I don't know the contents of from Mons
to Gladio. Yes, I don't either, and in all honesty, I
have a hard time relating the two. So whatever he says will will be
new to me. I guarantee that. So I really don't right, Obviously,
then we know what Mongoose was and we know what Gladio was, but
what he's going to say about them will We'll be revealed at the conference exactly,
So a little bit of a surprise there. One more thing is that
Alex Harrison, when I said the DCA film, I didn't tell the listeners,
in case you don't know, the Dallas Cinema Associates film, which was
a short film that was put together from an independent movie making club of sorts
in Dallas of that day of the JFK trip that they put together, and
you know, there were separate films that you know, it's like a whole
lot of zappruiters, except they were in different places. Uh, and they
were out there with their own you know, personal video cameras, you know,
of the day film cameras. Excuse me, not video cameras. They
wouldn't call it that. Uh. Their their film, their their their home
movie cameras. They were home movie group that made home movies together, and
they come up with this film. The DCA film is very interesting, creates
a lot of interesting footage and you might have seen snippets of it here and
there in different documentaries whatnot. But that's going to be an interesting thing from
Alex. So there's a well rounded group here all day Sunday and ranging according
to the schedule from a nine am to eight pm on Sunday night. Then
think you've tired me out just looking at it, Chuck, Right, So
you know you're talking about a long list, So Larry, I hope we
got around everybody. I know, we didn't skip over anybody who's on the
list. But then again, I also saw a few things say that there
could be more added at certain points here. Yeah, we're still negotiating if
and a couple of those speakers have been added fairly recently. This all,
you know, I won't say it fluid, but I have very much doubt
that this is the last edition of the agenda or the last speaker list.
I suspect, you know, not that it will change the day before,
but I suspect that, as Gabriella said, this is tentative, and that's
probably the best word to use for it. Absolutely. And look, I'm
gonna turn around and put in the live chatroom atochelli dot com in case you
go back. You can always roll it back later, by the way,
you know, just saying, And you can go to Larry's blog and take
a look at virtually the same list, except the uh, the official list
that's in the document doesn't contain my name, uh, but Larry's list does.
Because I'll be introducing people and handling some of the breakout rooms. And
uh. Also, I'm gonna want to participate in some of these panels if
I'm welcome to do so, And you guys might want to use me as
a decoy because they're gonna want to throw things at some of these panels.
And uh, I've been listen, I'm accustomed to being on a stage,
have been having had things thrown at me. Larry I was a heavy metal
musician for about a decade, so no problem for me. I like this,
Jack. I will definitely have that in the forefront. It's kind of
like, okay, the marsh pit is down there, and that where Chuck
is. I'll be on the other side of the door. There you go.
Look, I will run interference and security for you any day. My
friends, so really happy. And by the way, if you go to
larrydsh Handcock dot com, okay, you can get a hold of Larry's stuff,
his books, read about what it is he's writing. He's also I'll
give you links in the show notes if you're hearing a podcast. But if
you go to Larryhancock Altogether dot WordPress dot com, guess what, there's where
his blog is. And indeed there is an entry relating to this telling you
how to get tickets, how to sign up all that good stuff for this
event. Okay, so the information is all there and it's going to run
just so everybody knows. Right, Let's see, we're going to do this
beginning on is it the eighteenth, Let's see, no dinners on the eighteenth,
So it begins on the seventeenth, seventeenth, eighteenth and nineteenth should be
Friday, Friday Saturday, Sunday, Friday Saturday Sunday. So November seventeenth,
Friday, okay, is when this begins, as we described, at noontime.
And I'm really glad that at least that day it begins at noon.
But the other two days it'll begin in the morning of November eighteenth and November
nineteenth at the Lorenzo Hotel in Dallas, Texas. And as I said,
there's a way to get booked there. You can go see the schedule,
you can sign up for your tickets. There's student pricing available, there's virtual
pricing available, et cetera, et cetera. So it's all there at JFK
Lancerpublications dot com. Okay, but again, all those wonderful easy to click
links and everything will be in the show notes. Larry, I might just
lift a big chunk of you of your blog and stick it on the show
notes. That's good because that'll just make it a lot easier. Yeah,
I did the same thing from Gabriella's message to me. So it's only fair
there you go, so we'll all share this, and if you go there,
or if you participate virtually, you can share in it as well.
And there's ways to get the presentations, like Larry said, so that you
can either retain them temporarily or I guess, you know, indefinitely, as
indefinite as indefinite things can be. But also I urge you to check out
everybody's work who is involved. This is a very interesting and diverse group.
You got everything from the fourteen year old kid who is doing solid adult work.
Okay, don't discount the young man who I was very glad to have
on this show. And also look, Larry Hancock's there enough said, ticket
pros go all the way from fourteen to seventy six. What more good you
ask for? And then you got you know, fifty one year old me
in between, I mean William Matt's in law, Dick Russell. I mean
the the the highlights and the underappreciated underdogs. All of it is kind of
covered in here. So you got guys who are well known, you got
guys who are sort of known, you got guys who are unknown, and
everybody's going to present very different information. We're not going to be stuck on
one topic, one area, one particular subject matter. You really get an
overview of a lot of things here at the Lancer conference in a very serious
and even though I'm making jokes about you know, people throwing things and so
that's not gonna happen. It's gonna be very serious, very nice, and
hopefully we'll actually have a good time too, because there's also going to be
the breakout rooms. There's gonna be a media rooms, Larry. I mean,
there's a few things going on here. You want to give people an
idea, I'll I'll be in the bar, so there's always that. Well
I'm gonna go join you there too. Yeah, there's a lovely hotel and
we will have a floor pretty much to ourselves, and there there will be
breakout rooms, and there will be book sales there. Lanceer will be selling
books and the so there will be a book area. But all in all,
it's just a venue that if you can possibly be there in person,
it's going to be hard to replicate what's going to happen this year. Yes,
absolutely, I mean, look, you can attend it virtually, but
if you're able to get there in person, I would advise it not to
meet me. You can avoid me if you like, but I mean it
would be great to meet Larry Hancock, William matts In law, especially if
you're a long time follower of the case, somebody has read a lot of
the literature. I mean Stu Wexler, I'm glad he's there. I haven't
seen Stu geez, I don't even know I was. I even in the
room with him. Was he there in twenty seventeen? Do you remember?
Yeah? I think you was. Yes, Yeah, we go well Stu.
I mean, Stu's great. I love Stu. But Robert Grodin is
going to be there. I mean, you know, there's a lot of
people, Rex Bradford, people that if you know this case and you know
the people that have put in a lot of work, you can introduce yourself
to them. Get some you know, some signed books, great stuff,
new information, some old information revisited maybe more properly or more well with a
more discerning eye in some cases. Greg Dudina, I love that guy.
I love his approach. Okay, and you got a lot of things going
going on here, everything from Mongoose and Gladio to the walker shooting back around
to Daly Plaza and Buddy Walters. I mean, the media coverage and the
case, the state of the state regarding the case. So what else can
you ask for in a conference, Larry Hancock, I think Gabriella has done
an excellent job. And I say that after probably of attending at least twenty
conferences, so I've got a pretty good baseline for evaluating this is one of
the best. So I think we've covered it. Chuck. There you have
it, so again, go to Larrydashancock dot com and check out the links
that I gave you, and also look in the show notes for the JFK
Lancer conference coming up on the seventeenth of November, and it'll go on Friday,
Saturday, Sunday, that whole weekend, you know, just before the
actual date where the sixtieth anniversary of the assassination will be well, will be
a commemorated one way or another. Are we going to the no by the
way diary, that's my last question. Are we going to the knoll at
some point and doing the moment of silence and all that? I thought Ambril.
I know some people will be going to know the problem is it's so
close to Thanksgiving this year that I don't know that we've really been able to
organize anything forma. I think it will be a lot more personal, nice
so there there will be people going, but there's not a as far as
I know, there's no organized sixtieth anniversary Commemora commemoration, right. Well,
I do know the Ocelli group is going to make a trip to the Knowle
collectively and maybe you you, if you go, you can do that too,
uh. And we're certainly going to bump into each other as we go
there, et cetera, et cetera. Who knows who will go to the
sixth Floor Museum this year or not, because you know that's there too.
Uh. But yeah, I heard people check it out either get involved on
it, you know, get involved in it, excuse me online or otherwise.
JFK Lancer again seventeenth November to the nineteenth this November, just a few
weeks away, and it is presented by JFK. Lanser and Larry Hancock.
It says on some stuff I'm not sure, I guess, but you are
well obviously you're intimately involved. You're presenting in a few places. I know
you know a lot of people. You're helping out. You've clearly suggested people
to do things, and this has come together nicely. I'm looking very very
much forward to it. And I hope you guys will be there and look
forward to it as well. Anyway, I'm all done for tonight, and
again look to the show notes to sign up, get involved, etc.
I am merely o'helly, all of you are indeed the effect, and thank
you so much Larry Hancock for doing this with me. Great to have you
along. And if we don't get a chance to talk again before Dallas,
I'm going to see you there and hopefully I'll see all of you guys there.
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