1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:07,280 You're listening to the Mind over Murder podcast. My name is Bill Thomas. 2 00:00:07,799 --> 00:00:12,080 I'm a writer, consulting, producer, and now podcaster. I am now 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,039 trying to use my experience as the brother of a murder victim to help other 4 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:20,280 victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book on the unsolved Colonial Parkway 5 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:24,760 murders and I'm the co administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 6 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:29,120 Kristin Dilly. My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,840 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the social media 8 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:37,880 manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook page with my partner in 9 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:45,280 crime, Bill Thomas. Welcome to Mind Ever Murderer. I'm Kristin Dilly and 10 00:00:45,359 --> 00:00:51,399 I'm Bill Thomas. And Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, joyous 11 00:00:51,439 --> 00:00:54,039 Festivus for the rest of us, or whatever it is that you happen to 12 00:00:54,039 --> 00:01:00,880 celebrate. We've got to mix in Kwanza Wally and the Lights or is fest 13 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:07,040 of Us co opting of the Festival of Lights or is that something Larry David 14 00:01:07,079 --> 00:01:11,040 made up. I think that's something Larry David made up pretty sure. But 15 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:15,040 whatever it is that you happen to have celebrated recently or during this month, 16 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:21,760 we hope you had a happy, peaceful, joyous, wonderful one whatever that 17 00:01:21,799 --> 00:01:26,959 one thing happened to be. Now, most folks do celebrate New Year's which 18 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,959 is coming up later this week, and so we're heading into twenty twenty four, 19 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,159 ready or not, and we want to take a minute to thank everybody 20 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:40,359 so much for your continued support and listening and patronage, because it means a 21 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:44,079 lot to us to be able to do this podcast for you. I actually 22 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,799 think somehow in our sequence of numbers, we're heading into our fifth season, 23 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:52,840 but our fourth year. Don't ask me how we ended up here. You're 24 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,239 the one in charge of the numbering and the editing. Not made that that 25 00:01:56,319 --> 00:02:01,680 was a little scary. Four years, five seasons, who knew. I 26 00:02:01,719 --> 00:02:05,239 still don't know how we've managed that, But here we are. We just 27 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,039 stumbled our way into this thing, and we just keep on. At the 28 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:12,199 risk of reminding you that we've never taken a vacation, did you know that 29 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:19,000 we've never actually taken a vacation. I know, I'm very aware, I 30 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,199 really truly am, because I follow all of our other colleagues on Facebook, 31 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:25,120 and a lot of them are like, we're taking a week off here, 32 00:02:25,159 --> 00:02:29,280 We're taking a week off there. And I know, I'm just saying, 33 00:02:29,319 --> 00:02:34,159 I don't think I would mind if we did, but I don't think I 34 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:37,639 don't think it's necessary. Let's just keep right on going. There's so much 35 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:40,919 to talk about. I'm just gonna keep right on going. He's a workaholic, 36 00:02:42,199 --> 00:02:44,960 folks, He's a workaholic, and you heard it here first. And 37 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,919 then, of course we have our bonus episodes on Thursday, which are classic 38 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:55,039 episodes, whether we think so or not up to the listeners. Theah that 39 00:02:55,080 --> 00:03:00,599 we have classic episodes is actually a little a little terrifying too when you're four 40 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:08,680 years into it, heading into your fifth year or whatever. They Happy holidays, 41 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:15,479 everybody, Happy holidays. That's too far gone. Now, we're there's 42 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:21,960 no turning back. There's no turning back. We hadn't done true crime news 43 00:03:22,039 --> 00:03:23,680 for a hot minute, so we wanted to take a little bit of time 44 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:29,719 here right at the end of the year and around up some recent true crime 45 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:35,599 stories that we thought were interesting and present them to all of you. Because 46 00:03:35,719 --> 00:03:38,639 isn't this time of year the time you want to stop and pause and reflect? 47 00:03:38,759 --> 00:03:44,759 And what would we rather do than stop, pause and reflect on horrific 48 00:03:44,879 --> 00:03:50,639 true crime stories the past year? Because we know how to have a fun 49 00:03:50,639 --> 00:03:54,719 holiday season. There are people who ask me legitimately, like, how do 50 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,800 you do this always? Is this always on your mind? Or you constantly 51 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:03,919 thinking thinking about this? And not always but a lot of times true. 52 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:10,120 But we talk about other things, and yes, there's life beyond true crime. 53 00:04:10,199 --> 00:04:13,719 But at the same time, I think this is a serious endeavor and 54 00:04:13,719 --> 00:04:16,040 we might as well stick with it. We may as well, So we'll 55 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,800 go ahead and start with the first story. And this I think is of 56 00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:26,240 particular interest with regard to what kind of information we can get out of the 57 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,079 brains of mass shooters. So let me go ahead and get into this first 58 00:04:31,079 --> 00:04:36,839 story. So, the brain of Robert card, the forty year old mass 59 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:42,920 shooter from Lewiston, Maine, who killed eighteen people during a shooting rampage at 60 00:04:42,959 --> 00:04:48,839 a bowling alley in October, has been sent to CT experts at Boston University's 61 00:04:49,079 --> 00:04:54,959 CTE Center. And for anybody who doesn't know what CT is, that stands 62 00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,720 for chronic traumatic and cephalopathy, and we'll explain that more in one second. 63 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,800 To recap the events, Robert Card, who was an army reservist and a 64 00:05:03,879 --> 00:05:09,600 firearms instructor, entered a bowling alley and then a bar a mile down the 65 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:15,000 road in late October. During his shooting rampage. He killed eighteen people between 66 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,920 the two locations. There was a massive manhunt across that region for two days 67 00:05:20,199 --> 00:05:27,319 looking for Card before his body was finally found near his previous place of employment, 68 00:05:27,439 --> 00:05:30,639 a recycling center. And he had killed himself. Am I correct he 69 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:36,279 had killed himself? Yes, Lindsay Shastin the main office of the Chief Medical 70 00:05:36,319 --> 00:05:42,639 Examiner's spokesperson said in Sienna and a couple of days ago, the Chief Medical 71 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:49,120 Examiner requested CTE testing be conducted on Robert Card's brain due to the combined history 72 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:55,360 of military experience and actions. Now, what led up to that is the 73 00:05:55,399 --> 00:06:00,399 fact that three months prior to this shooting, Robert Card was given a command 74 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:09,040 referral after he began behaving erratically. That command referral required him to seek treatment 75 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:14,040 in response to the fact that he said he was hearing voices and having thoughts 76 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,839 of hurting other soldiers. Upon receipt of that command referral. He was transported 77 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:25,600 to the Keller Army Community Hospital at the US Military Academy at West Point and 78 00:06:25,639 --> 00:06:29,600 he was given these tests and the results of those tests have not been released, 79 00:06:29,759 --> 00:06:33,560 but according to CNN, who covered the story in great detail, the 80 00:06:34,079 --> 00:06:39,360 folks at the main Medical Examiner's office would like for there to be testing done 81 00:06:39,439 --> 00:06:44,519 to determine whether or not Robert Carr had CTE. So CTE, or chronic 82 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:51,839 traumatic encephalopathy, is a debilitating neurological disorder caused by repeated blows to the head. 83 00:06:53,439 --> 00:06:58,160 This can happen sometimes with sports figures, for example, this is a 84 00:06:58,279 --> 00:07:04,199 danger for football play anybody who may be in contact sports in which you're doing 85 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:09,000 a lot of contact with other people that may cause blows to the head. 86 00:07:09,319 --> 00:07:15,160 CTE ultimately is a form of dementia that can include symptoms of depression, anger, 87 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,040 forgetfulness, violence as well. The thing that's interesting about ct is it 88 00:07:20,079 --> 00:07:26,800 can only be diagnosed after the person has died through brain samples that are taken 89 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,720 after the autopsy. It's awesome reporting recently in The Washington Post about the wives 90 00:07:31,759 --> 00:07:39,120 of football players who were saying that they were fairly certain that their veteran football 91 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:46,000 playing husbands. NFL players had similar symptoms where they were suffering from depression and 92 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:50,680 anger issues and anxiety. And as you said, it really can only be 93 00:07:50,759 --> 00:07:57,680 fully diagnosed through examination of the brain after obviously someone has died. In doing 94 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,120 some more research on this, because i'd do you find it very interesting ct 95 00:08:01,399 --> 00:08:09,160 and the potential links to violent behavior are being very closely explored now more so 96 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,519 than ever, and so they are looking at the potential link between traumatic brain 97 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:20,920 injuries or TBI and violence. When someone receives a traumatic brain injury, Could 98 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:26,319 this result in an uptick in depression or violent behavior. We don't know, 99 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:33,279 but more research is definitely something that seems to be required here. My understanding 100 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:39,360 based on this research is that repeated traumatic brain injuries TBI can lead to CTE, 101 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:45,440 but it's unclear thus far whether any violent behavior exhibited is a result of 102 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,399 the TBI or if it's a result of the CTEs. We don't know what 103 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,960 causes it. It does seem pretty evident that we need more study in this 104 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:56,960 area. And my question is, so what does that mean for our society 105 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:03,639 with regard to mass shooters like Robert card should researchers be looking for instances of 106 00:09:03,759 --> 00:09:09,399 TBI in those perpetrators that might offer some causes for their violent actions. Or 107 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:13,840 is the root cause of a mass shooter's terrible actions? Is that somewhere else? 108 00:09:15,080 --> 00:09:16,480 We don't know that. I think it's important that we learn that, 109 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:22,519 and so the answers to those questions are pretty unclear, but I do think 110 00:09:22,519 --> 00:09:24,960 the questions need to be asked, the studies need to continue, and hopefully, 111 00:09:26,159 --> 00:09:31,120 with Robert Card's brain being sent out for examination at Boston University, we 112 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,440 may eventually get some answers as to whether or not traumatic brain injury or CTE 113 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:39,639 had something to do with his terrible actions in October at the Bowling Alley and 114 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:43,559 the bar in Lewiston, Maine. It would be interesting to go back in 115 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:50,240 recent history and take a look at how many different mass shooters we've had who 116 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,799 have had military training. Certainly, I'm aware of the fact, even from 117 00:09:54,919 --> 00:09:58,720 just the reporting we've seen over the last decade or so, that a number 118 00:09:58,919 --> 00:10:03,279 of these perpetras, almost all the men have had military training, and you 119 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:09,360 wonder if they may have had exposure. They talked about Robert Carr's exposure as 120 00:10:09,399 --> 00:10:16,600 a firearms instructor at West Point, that he was exposed to a tremendous amount 121 00:10:16,799 --> 00:10:22,279 of cannon fire as well as small arms fire. He would have been around 122 00:10:22,360 --> 00:10:28,679 guns and explosions and would have been exposed to this level of potential brain injury 123 00:10:28,879 --> 00:10:33,120 over a number of years. This is a real interesting question that I think 124 00:10:33,159 --> 00:10:35,279 we need to be taking a look at. Yeah. Absolutely, the fact 125 00:10:35,279 --> 00:10:39,080 that they went ahead and sent his brain out for additional study, I think 126 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,440 is it's a good sign and it's going to be very interesting from a research 127 00:10:43,519 --> 00:10:48,480 standpoint down the road and what might be a common factor for mass shooters. 128 00:10:48,879 --> 00:10:52,000 Another case we were following over the last couple of years that we wanted to 129 00:10:52,000 --> 00:11:00,360 circle back on is the Jeffrey Epstein Glenne Maxwell case. There's new information that 130 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:05,200 is expected to come out in early twenty twenty four January to be exact, 131 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,000 via the Wall Street Journal that may name as many as one hundred and fifty 132 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:16,480 additional associates of Jeffrey Epstein. Now, not all these people are necessarily directly 133 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:24,159 involved in Epstein and Maxwell's sex trafficking of these young women. It does appear 134 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:30,840 that these people had personal and professional relationships as a result of a freedom of 135 00:11:30,879 --> 00:11:35,159 information filing by the Wall Street Journal. These names are going to be probably 136 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:41,960 revealed sometime in January. We can't forget Jeffrey Epstein had powerful friends on both 137 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:46,639 sides of the political spectrum, including former Presidents Donald Trump, Bill Clinton, 138 00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:52,519 Hillary Clinton, lawyer Alan Dershowitz, and many other people. Their names have 139 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:58,200 already been linked with Epstein and Andrew of course, Oh, Prince Andrew is 140 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,879 definitely on the list. It'll be very interesting to see where the Wall Street 141 00:12:01,919 --> 00:12:07,799 Journal takes this. The Wall Street Journal has done two lengthy stories describing the 142 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,879 many different connections to Epstein, and then, of course, reporter Julie K. 143 00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:16,600 Brown of the Miami Herald has done a tremendous amount of reporting on the 144 00:12:16,759 --> 00:12:22,279 Jeffrey Epstein Glenn Maxwell scandal. This is just a partial list of some of 145 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,120 the people whose names may be revealed. There are some advance copies of some 146 00:12:26,159 --> 00:12:31,279 of this research available. Some of the people that have been mentioned include designer 147 00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:39,159 Vera Wang and model and designer Naomi Campbell. Apparently their names were used as 148 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:48,159 a way of soliciting participation from young women were then drawn into their sex trafficking 149 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:52,480 business. Oh jeez, yeah, it gets pretty bad. Other people that 150 00:12:52,519 --> 00:12:56,679 are mentioned whose names are probably going to come out and be on the list 151 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:00,519 of one hundred and fifty. This is going to be very interesting. Norwegian 152 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:07,039 Prime Minister Thor Yaglund. Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy Junior. Oh, now, 153 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:16,360 it doesn't necessarily mean that he was a customer regarding their sexual abuse of these 154 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:22,480 young women. Robert Kennedy Junior says that he traveled to pedophile Island as it 155 00:13:22,519 --> 00:13:26,960 was called, with his wife and didn't have anything to do with any of 156 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:31,080 the illegal activity that was taking place there. Other people who are mentioned Google 157 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:39,679 founder Sergey Brinn. Very interesting information coming out about Microsoft co founder Bill Gates. 158 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:46,480 Apparently Bill Gates had a lengthy affair with a woman and Epstein knew about 159 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:52,720 this and may have facilitated some of their meetings. And Epstein supposedly paid for 160 00:13:52,799 --> 00:13:58,159 this young woman to receive training for a business that she was attempting to launch. 161 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,360 This is during the deck he was having an affair with this woman. 162 00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:07,039 This is Bill Gates now, and apparently there may have been an attempt on 163 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:13,000 Epstein's part to blackmail Bill Gates into paying for this training, which Epstein had 164 00:14:13,039 --> 00:14:18,159 originally funded and then he was dropping these very strong hints in writing that he 165 00:14:18,279 --> 00:14:24,639 wanted Bill Gates to reimburse him for the cost of this woman's training. Other 166 00:14:24,639 --> 00:14:31,440 people mentioned Bard College president Leon Botstein, our current CIA director William Burns Wow 167 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:37,120 is on the list. This name had already come out in some previous reporting. 168 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,279 Former Treasury Secretary and the president of Harvard, Lawrence Summers had a long 169 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:48,960 standing affiliation with Epstein. PayPal co founder and friend of Donald Trump, Peter 170 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:56,039 file and then the J. P. Morgan Chase Bank is implicated as well. 171 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:01,080 They've already paid a seventy five million dollars are fine to settle with the 172 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:07,000 US Virgin Islands for charges related to the Epstein scandal. And then, of 173 00:15:07,039 --> 00:15:11,919 course Prince Andrew. Some of the reporting I was reviewing today also said that 174 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:20,639 Prince Andrew's unfortunate and illegal access to underage women. He's already been sued successfully 175 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:28,039 by one also a Prince Andrew facilitated Epstein's total access to the British royal family. 176 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:33,200 Epstein and Maxwell, and of course Maxwell was a British citizen, traveled 177 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:39,759 to and actually attended functions with the royal family. And this is all as 178 00:15:39,799 --> 00:15:45,480 a result of their relationship with Prince Andrew. Yes, it's just horrible, 179 00:15:45,679 --> 00:15:52,120 So look for this in early January. This probably should be coming out sometime 180 00:15:52,159 --> 00:15:56,159 in the next few weeks. As you may recall, Jeffrey Epstein died under 181 00:15:56,200 --> 00:16:02,480 suspicious circumstances on August tenth, twenty nineteen, at the Metropolitan Correctional Center in 182 00:16:02,559 --> 00:16:07,559 New York City. Many people feel that although the death was put down as 183 00:16:07,559 --> 00:16:12,360 a suicide, supposedly he had found enough fabric to wrap around his neck and 184 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:19,120 commit suicide, there were some very strange details there where there was no video 185 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:25,519 available outside of his cell because of course, the system went down and the 186 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:30,919 guards in question were suddenly not available, so that he was not checked as 187 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:36,000 frequently as he was supposed to be, and of course no one was punished 188 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,799 for any of this. In the meantime, Galei Maxwell was found guilty of 189 00:16:41,039 --> 00:16:47,200 child sex trafficking in twenty twenty one and sentenced to twenty years in prison starting 190 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:52,399 in twenty twenty two. Well, it couldn't happen to a nicer person there, 191 00:16:52,039 --> 00:16:56,120 jeez, No, agreed. I think the two of them are just 192 00:16:56,279 --> 00:17:00,200 completely reprehensible people. There are many people feel that she may have taken the 193 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,920 fall because Maxwell was still alive, Epstein was dead, and so they couldn't 194 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,200 blame the principal sex trafficker, so they went with the number two person. 195 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:17,480 She certainly was grossly involved in all of their illegal activity. When you get 196 00:17:17,519 --> 00:17:21,240 into the details of it, you just feel like washing your hands or taking 197 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:26,559 a shower afterward. The two of them the absolute worst. Yeah. Can 198 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,759 I take my brain out and wash it out and then put it back into 199 00:17:30,799 --> 00:17:33,519 my head? Yeah, that's definitely what it feels like. So our next 200 00:17:33,519 --> 00:17:37,559 story is one that when I read it, I sent it to you immediately 201 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:41,480 because I figured that if you hadn't heard of it, and because it took 202 00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:45,200 place up in Boston, I figured probably you had if you hadn't heard of 203 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:47,200 it already. Then I knew it was going to be the sort of thing 204 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:51,200 that you would like. And this is definitely a story that falls under the 205 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:55,400 category of truth is stranger than fiction. Would you agree with that? I 206 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,839 would, And I did remember this story. As soon as you sent it 207 00:17:57,839 --> 00:18:02,000 to me. I was like, oh, I remember when this happened. 208 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:06,960 This is a fascinating story. So we absolutely could not let another edition of 209 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:11,039 True Crime News go by without digging into this amazing story. The story starts 210 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,359 with a man by the name of Thomas Randall, car salesman and country club 211 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:21,359 golf pro, who made a confession to his daughter Ashley in March of twenty 212 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,920 twenty one. He told his daughter that his name was not actually Tom Randall. 213 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:30,640 His real name was Theodore Conrad, and he had been on the run 214 00:18:30,839 --> 00:18:37,359 from the cops for the last fifty years because he had robbed an Ohio bank 215 00:18:37,519 --> 00:18:41,640 of two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. This is one of those situations where 216 00:18:41,759 --> 00:18:47,359 truth really is better than fiction. It's a crazy story. Now. Tom 217 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,920 Randall asked his daughter not to look into the case any further, but I 218 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,200 don't think I'd be able to help myself. And clearly she didn't either, 219 00:18:56,319 --> 00:19:00,960 and so she went online to look it up, and she discovered hundreds and 220 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:06,319 hundreds of online articles about what has been declared to be one of the largest 221 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:11,799 bank heists in Cleveland, Ohio's history. The heist that her father perpetrated is 222 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,880 of two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars in money of that era. Today it 223 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:22,279 is one point seven million dollars in terms of today's coinage adjusted for inflation, 224 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:26,559 of which there's a lot. I was very interested to read about the fact 225 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:33,400 that this heist was. It was so large, his inexplicable disappearance was so 226 00:19:33,559 --> 00:19:37,160 odd that it was featured on a number of programs that we're familiar with, 227 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:42,440 America's Most Wanted. It also appeared on Unsolved Mysteries, and people even compared 228 00:19:42,759 --> 00:19:48,240 Theodore Conrad's disappearance with the money to that of skyjacker dB Cooper, who, 229 00:19:48,279 --> 00:19:52,240 if you recall, stole two hundred thousand dollars and then parachuted out of an 230 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,920 airplane over the Pacific Northwest, never to be seen again. Interesting, people 231 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:03,200 talk about the Cooper much more often than and they talked about this particular disappearance 232 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,519 of Theodore Conrad, and yet they're actually quite equivalent. Even the dollar amount 233 00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:11,960 is roughly equivalent two hundred thousand dollars versus two hundred and fifteen thousand dollars. 234 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,000 A lot of discussion about D. B. Cooper, of course, people 235 00:20:15,039 --> 00:20:18,839 loved the kind of the romantic aspect of him jumping out of the plane with 236 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:25,079 the parachute and the two hundred grand As I recall, I think they've found 237 00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:29,960 some small amount of the money in the woods in the dB Cooper story, 238 00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:33,920 and yet Conrad makes a complete, clean getaway. I like the fact that 239 00:20:33,079 --> 00:20:38,279 actually in both cases there is an apparent movie connection. I was reading that 240 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,799 if you look at the Suspect sketch of dB Cooper wearing the gray suit and 241 00:20:44,920 --> 00:20:49,039 the pair of sunglasses, he actually looks quite a bit like Carrie Grant's character 242 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:55,599 Roger Thornhill in north By Northwest, which was one of Hitchcock's most wonderful and 243 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,880 thrilling capers. People have said that they wondered if maybe Cooper had patterned himself, 244 00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,799 at least his look after the carry Grant and the iconic gray suit that 245 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:11,039 he wore in north By Northwest. Interesting. It is interesting if you do 246 00:21:11,079 --> 00:21:15,359 a side by side comparison of the Suspect cat sketch and Carry Grant in north 247 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:19,119 By Northwest, it's actually eerily similar. And there's a movie connection here as 248 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:25,160 well. There is. Tom Randall's favorite movie was The Thomas Crown Affair, 249 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,359 and that would be the Steve McQueen version, not the Pierce Brosman version, 250 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,839 And the Pierce Brosen version, of course, is the one that I'm more 251 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,720 familiar with. But I bet you know the Steve McQueen version. I like 252 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:37,440 them both, though they're both quite good. I think the McQueen version is 253 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,960 a little more successful. I think it's Steve McQueen and fade down away. 254 00:21:41,279 --> 00:21:45,400 I like the Pierce Brosen version. I do too. I don't think Renee 255 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:48,559 Russo sold it nearly as well as she should have, but need to have 256 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:55,200 a real soft spot for Renee Russo. Though you're listening to Mind Over Murder, 257 00:21:55,240 --> 00:22:04,279 we'll be right back after this word from our sponsors, We're back here 258 00:22:04,319 --> 00:22:10,759 at Mindover Murder. Tom Randall's favorite movie, Thomas Crown Affair, is apparently 259 00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,680 what may have inspired his plan to lift the money from the bank where he 260 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:18,839 was an employee. On Friday, July eleventh, nineteen sixty nine, he 261 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,519 arrived at his job as a teller at Cleveland's Society National Bank. He was 262 00:22:22,559 --> 00:22:26,240 planning on celebrating his birthday that weekend, so he went on his break to 263 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,960 buy a bottle of whiskey and a pack of cigarettes, and at the end 264 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,759 of his workday, he went into the vault. He put two hundred and 265 00:22:32,799 --> 00:22:37,160 fifteen thousand dollars into a paper bag, and he left he just walked out 266 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:41,960 of his own life because it was a weekend. Though robbery was not discovered 267 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:45,160 until Monday, which allowed Conrad a two day head start. He sent letters 268 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,039 to his girlfriend professing his deep love and affection for her. One letter was 269 00:22:49,079 --> 00:22:52,960 postmarked from Washington, d C. The other from Los Angeles, California. 270 00:22:53,079 --> 00:22:57,079 And that was the last communication that Theodore Conrad had with anyone. And so 271 00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,920 the authorities in Cleveland had absolutely no idea what to do and the case went 272 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,039 cold. Interesting. This is characterized as a robbery, which it is, 273 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:10,720 but it's not an armed robbery, and it's not your usual bank robbery where 274 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,599 people go in with a gun and a note and demand money, take the 275 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:18,720 money and leave. This is really much quieter. It's an inside job. 276 00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:23,920 And remember when we were talking with Greg Overacher a couple of weeks ago about 277 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,440 his work as a bounty hunter. He said that one of the ways that 278 00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:32,960 you find people who are on the run, like Thomas Randall would have been, 279 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,680 is through their relationships. They want to stay in touch with their girlfriend, 280 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,799 their wife, their kids, people that are important to them. He 281 00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:47,319 manages to sever those ties, yeah, and walk away. He sends a 282 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:52,640 note to his girlfriend with these unusual postmarks in DC and Los Angeles, where 283 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:56,680 he may have been, or certainly the letters were mailed from those locations and 284 00:23:56,839 --> 00:24:00,319 could have made other arrangements to have them mailed for him. By having the 285 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:04,920 discipline to not reach out to his girlfriend, whom it does sound like he 286 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:11,319 was very fond of her, he needs the clean break. Very interesting that 287 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,160 he was able to do that. So he moved north to a suburb outside 288 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,279 of Boston. People have speculated that he moved to Boston because that is where 289 00:24:18,279 --> 00:24:22,519 the Thomas Crown Affair was set and was filmed. He changed his name to 290 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:29,279 Thomas again after the lead character, and he lived a quiet life for the 291 00:24:29,319 --> 00:24:33,119 next fifty years as a family man. He donated to law enforcement charities, 292 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,119 He set her in and watched NCIS with his family, and he committed no 293 00:24:38,319 --> 00:24:41,680 further crimes for the rest of his life. I guess he just figured maybe 294 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,559 he needed to set himself up to be financially successful, and there he went. 295 00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:52,599 When I heard about this case was living up in Boston. The Boston 296 00:24:52,599 --> 00:24:56,960 Globe, the newspaper of record up there, gave this story a lot of 297 00:24:56,119 --> 00:25:02,839 play. When it finally broke that he was this mysterious bank rubber who had 298 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:07,880 disappeared. So Ashley Randall said after her dad's death that in retrospect, there 299 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,920 were some behaviors that he exhibited that could be viewed as suspicious. She said 300 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,200 that even though he was clean shaven when he was younger, he grew and 301 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,160 maintained a beard his whole entire life, which is pretty good disguised. She 302 00:25:19,319 --> 00:25:25,400 said he rarely took off his baseball cap in public, another good way to 303 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,720 disguise it, and she said that he did not ever travel overseas with his 304 00:25:30,759 --> 00:25:33,880 wife and his daughter. He always said it was because he preferred to travel 305 00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:38,079 domestically. That Ashley realized after his death that it's because he did not have 306 00:25:38,319 --> 00:25:41,799 and would have no way to get a passport. One of the things I 307 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:48,640 read at the time was that this highlighted a weakness in the social security system. 308 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:52,799 He had applied for and gotten a new Social Security card, so he 309 00:25:52,839 --> 00:25:56,960 had a new Social Security number, and then that allowed him to get like 310 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:03,279 a driver's license and other things, but he didn't have the birth certificate that 311 00:26:03,319 --> 00:26:07,240 would have been required for him to get a passport. And as you mentioned, 312 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,680 when his wife and daughter wanted to go to Europe on vacation. He 313 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:17,119 let them go without him. Very interesting. So Ashley and her mother Kathy, 314 00:26:17,559 --> 00:26:19,839 knew that Thomas Randall had only a few months to live. He was 315 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:25,400 dying of lung cancer. They did not tell the authorities his secret, and 316 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:30,359 they decided that they would go to law enforcement in June of twenty twenty two, 317 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,960 which was a year after his death. But it was only a few 318 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,960 months later, in November of twenty twenty one, that US marshals showed up 319 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,079 at the door and said that they had been tipped off to Tom Randall's identity 320 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:47,160 by a crime reporter who had been sent Tom Randall's obituary. We'll see if 321 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:51,920 we can find Tom Randall's obituary because this is interesting. So even though their 322 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:56,200 plan was we're going to sit on dad's news until a year after he passes, 323 00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:02,440 this crime reporter figured this out based on his oh bit. There had 324 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,079 to be have been something in that oh bit that there was enough of a 325 00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:10,400 nuggative information that this reporter was able to figure out this is the guy that 326 00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:14,839 got away with this bank robbery fifty years ago. This is going to become 327 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:17,359 a movie at some point. This is going to be this is gonna be 328 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,799 like touch me if you can, or something along those lines. But if 329 00:27:18,799 --> 00:27:25,480 you want to hear more about the amazing story of Tom Randall aka Conrad Ashley, 330 00:27:25,559 --> 00:27:27,680 Randall does have a podcast that has just come out. It is called 331 00:27:27,799 --> 00:27:33,759 Smoke Screen My Fugitive Dad. That's a great name. My Fugitive Dad, 332 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:38,400 My Fugitive Dad. I thought it was a great, really interesting story, 333 00:27:38,519 --> 00:27:41,559 and we just wanted to make sure that we shared that with all of our 334 00:27:41,599 --> 00:27:45,680 listeners. So do check out Smoke Screen My Fugitive Dad for more information, 335 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,440 and we will try to put a link to Tom Randall's oh bit in the 336 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:53,160 show notes. One last thought about Tom Randall. If it sounds like we're 337 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,920 treating this with a little bit of a lighter touch than we usually do and 338 00:27:57,279 --> 00:28:02,720 discussing true crime, I think it's because no one was harmed. Obviously, 339 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,279 the bank was out to other than fifteen thousand dollars, but that's why banks 340 00:28:06,279 --> 00:28:10,680 are insured. And he committed no act of violence, and as far as 341 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,839 we know, he never did anything else of a criminal nature for the rest 342 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,359 of his life. Interesting. I'm sorry to hear that he died of lung 343 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,480 cancer. I don't think those cigarettes are doing him any favors. If anything, 344 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,960 I find this story fascinating and I'm not letting him off the hook for 345 00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:33,480 bank robbery, right. It really is a fascinating story to have this whole 346 00:28:33,519 --> 00:28:38,160 thing come together post mortem, and then there's something intriguing enough about his obituary 347 00:28:38,359 --> 00:28:41,720 that a crime reporter was able to say, Hey, this is that guy. 348 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,039 Like I said, someone's going to make a movie or a TV series 349 00:28:47,079 --> 00:28:49,559 out of this because it is really interesting. And let's be honest, if 350 00:28:49,599 --> 00:28:55,160 you had the opportunity to set yourself up financial life for the rest of your 351 00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,200 life when you're young, he was twenty, he was barely out of his 352 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,920 teens. If you're the opportunity to set yourself up financially for the rest of 353 00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:04,480 your life without hurting anybody, if you had the opportunity to do it, 354 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,759 would you? Clearly he did. It worked for him. I don't think 355 00:29:07,759 --> 00:29:11,400 it would work for everybody, But it's an intriguing question to ask yourself. 356 00:29:11,759 --> 00:29:15,720 We'll put it up on our social media, let's see what people think. 357 00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:18,680 Yeah, it'd be a nice, fun little question. And if you had 358 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:22,480 that opportunity, listeners, would you. We'll definitely put that up on Facebook 359 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,000 see what we have to say. These last two stories are a bit more 360 00:29:26,079 --> 00:29:30,720 serious. These are updates on cases that we've discussed here at mindover Murder. 361 00:29:32,279 --> 00:29:37,400 The first is the Idaho four murders of the four college students at the University 362 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:44,799 of Idaho in November twenty twenty two. A couple of developments just recently, 363 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:49,759 a judge has tossed out two attempts by suspect Brian Coberger's attorneys to have his 364 00:29:51,039 --> 00:29:56,440 charges tossed out. First, they've recently claimed that prosecutors withheld evidence, and 365 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:02,319 the judge found noah evidence of with holding. And then second they claimed that 366 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,000 the wrong standard was used by the grand jury in this case, and again 367 00:30:07,359 --> 00:30:11,319 the judge said, no, I don't think so. And remember, ultimately, 368 00:30:11,599 --> 00:30:15,680 it's not what happens at the grand jury level, it's what happens in 369 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:22,319 the trial, which is scheduled for early twenty twenty four that really matters the 370 00:30:22,359 --> 00:30:27,960 most. The other recent development in the Idaho four case is that the University 371 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,799 of Idaho, which now owns the house which was the crime scene, has 372 00:30:33,839 --> 00:30:38,480 announced plans to destroy the house. It was a rental property owned by a 373 00:30:38,559 --> 00:30:45,319 landlord three levels I think most of us have seen coverage on the various television 374 00:30:45,359 --> 00:30:51,680 networks and just extensive amount of media coverage this case is received. The University 375 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,680 of Idaho has announced plans to tear the house down. A number of people 376 00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,079 are disturbed by this because there hasn't been a trial yet. Of legal experts 377 00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:06,480 have weighed in and said this is very premature. One of the victim's mothers, 378 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:11,480 this is Xana Cernadal's mother, has announced plans to fight this action, 379 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,480 that is, to prevent the tearing down of the house before the trial takes 380 00:31:15,519 --> 00:31:19,240 place. Several thousand people have signed a petition to stop the teardown of the 381 00:31:19,319 --> 00:31:25,920 house. And I actually do agree that I think this is quite premature. 382 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:33,119 Even though extensive DNA and forensic searches have taken place and a lot of analysis, 383 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:37,640 and they have video. It can still be very meaningful for a jury 384 00:31:37,759 --> 00:31:42,119 should the prosecution or the defense choose to ask for this, to be able 385 00:31:42,119 --> 00:31:47,400 to go to the premises and walk through them. The house has an unusual 386 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,160 layout. It's been described how suspect buying coburger may have started on the third 387 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,759 floor and worked his way down to the second floor. Murders taking place on 388 00:31:56,839 --> 00:32:00,240 the third floor bedrooms and in the second floor bedrooms making his way towards the 389 00:32:00,319 --> 00:32:06,640 exit where he was seen by one of the other roommates that evening. I 390 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,839 think all of this could be very beneficial. I understand that the University of 391 00:32:09,839 --> 00:32:15,400 Idaho wants to move on, that's the expression they're hurting, and they've discussed 392 00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:22,440 perhaps putting a memorial garden in this small neighborhood close to the campus to remember 393 00:32:22,519 --> 00:32:25,079 these students. I love the idea. I just don't think we need to 394 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:30,640 rush into this, particularly since I think anything we can do to facilitate a 395 00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:36,200 fair trial for Brian Coburger and a way to make certain that justice is achieved 396 00:32:36,319 --> 00:32:40,720 is incredibly important. And I don't see what the rush is to tear this 397 00:32:40,839 --> 00:32:45,400 property down. No, I agree with that entirely. I think your point, 398 00:32:45,519 --> 00:32:50,440 especially about being able to go visit the premises if needed, is a 399 00:32:50,519 --> 00:32:54,920 very good one, because as we can tell already from fran Coberger and his 400 00:32:55,039 --> 00:33:01,039 team, they are willing to file motion after motion to argue malfeasance and various 401 00:33:01,079 --> 00:33:06,519 other things that if they went ahead and toore that down and then try to 402 00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,559 present evidence with regard to land out of the house or whatever that would have 403 00:33:10,599 --> 00:33:15,279 been better served by being able to go to the house itself. He would 404 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,359 find some way to leverage that in his own favor. I think it is 405 00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:22,559 only right and only fair in the interest of justice, that it stays up 406 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:25,759 until after the trial has come to its successful conclusion, it's been fully adjudicated, 407 00:33:27,039 --> 00:33:30,079 and then I think by all means at that point tear it down if 408 00:33:30,079 --> 00:33:32,079 you want to turn it into a memorial garden, if you want to, 409 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,079 let's leave it up until then, just in the interest of fairness. It's 410 00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:39,359 what is it that I tell my students. It's better to have it and 411 00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:44,240 not need it than need it and not have it. Agreed. And some 412 00:33:44,279 --> 00:33:51,279 of the criticisms of the University of Idaho have included the observation that the university 413 00:33:51,519 --> 00:33:54,440 is very interested in moving on. As I mentioned, they don't want to 414 00:33:54,480 --> 00:34:00,960 be remembered as the place where this horrific crime took place. While I understand 415 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:07,639 it and a university's idea at rebuilding their reputation, the truth is four young 416 00:34:07,719 --> 00:34:14,079 college students were brutally murdered there. That's already happened. Let's at least do 417 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:19,360 everything we can to make sure that these people get justice and the justice they 418 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,159 deserve, so that we can all move on. And I think if this 419 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:28,559 house stands empty for another year, there's no harm done. It could be 420 00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:34,079 particularly helpful to either the prosecution or the defense. And then our last story 421 00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,920 is about the Delphi murder case, which has more twists in turns than I 422 00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:43,440 don't even know what. The latest is that the trial of suspect Richard Allen 423 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:49,239 in the two thousand and seventeen murder of Libby Jerman and Abby Williams has been 424 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:54,039 now pushed back for another year. Likely it was scheduled for January twenty twenty 425 00:34:54,079 --> 00:34:59,639 four and is now being pushed back to next fall. This is a year 426 00:34:59,639 --> 00:35:04,880 from now now, October twenty twenty four after graphic crime scene photos were leaked 427 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:09,199 online. This should have never happened, No, not ever. And these 428 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:14,960 poor families, and of course we've met the families. It's very difficult to 429 00:35:15,079 --> 00:35:20,440 see them go through one delay after another. This latest involves a forty one 430 00:35:20,519 --> 00:35:24,599 year old man named Mitchell Westerman. He was charged in November twenty twenty three, 431 00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:30,320 just a few weeks ago. We're making copies of graphic crime scene photos. 432 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:36,000 He saw while he was visiting the offices of his friend Andrew Baldwin's law 433 00:35:36,039 --> 00:35:42,280 office. Baldwin and his partner were past tense now the defense attorneys for Richard 434 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,880 Allen. Apparently, Mitchell Westerman had worked for Andrew Baldwin and they had remained 435 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:51,559 friends. He had stopped by to chat with his friend. Baldwin was in 436 00:35:51,639 --> 00:35:54,920 a meeting or on the phone, and Westerman was waiting, and he wandered 437 00:35:54,960 --> 00:36:01,559 into a conference room where there were crime scene photks from the libby Jermyan Abby 438 00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:06,400 Williams crime scene. Perhaps they shouldn't have been out in the open, but 439 00:36:06,559 --> 00:36:10,360 that's a conversation for another day. Mitchell Westerman took out his cell phone and 440 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:16,679 took photographs of the crime scene images, which apparently were incredibly graphic, Oh 441 00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:23,000 my god. And then he passed them on to other people, ultimately ending 442 00:36:23,079 --> 00:36:30,440 up with one friend in Indiana and another associate in Texas. One of those 443 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,039 people then leaked them out further, so they ended up on the Internet, 444 00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:39,960 as they always do. The photographs were fairly widely distributed. Jeez. Once 445 00:36:40,559 --> 00:36:45,599 the leak was discovered and law enforcement got involved, they began questioning people who 446 00:36:45,639 --> 00:36:50,280 had the photographs and had put them up online. One of the people that 447 00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:54,760 Westerman leaked the photos to committed suicide after he was questioned by police. And 448 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,920 this is a guy who's married with a child. He killed himself immediately after 449 00:37:00,039 --> 00:37:04,280 being questioned by the police. This had further ripple effects. You remember the 450 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,880 lawyer Andrew Baldwin and his law partner Brad Rosie were then removed from the case 451 00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:14,039 by the judge. They're the ones that had allowed the leak to take place. 452 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,039 They had not known about the leak. The judge presiding over the case 453 00:37:19,119 --> 00:37:22,559 felt that they were so badly compromised that they had to be removed from the 454 00:37:22,599 --> 00:37:29,679 case. So she has now named new defense attorneys been appointed to represent Richard 455 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,320 Allen. The new attorneys have to come up to speed on what we all 456 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:38,079 agree is a very complicated case. The clial has been pushed back by approximately 457 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,639 another ten months to allow them to come up to speed. What we're seeing 458 00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,920 is yet another delay in seeking justice for Libyan Abbey. I get she had 459 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:52,039 to give them ten months to come up to speed on it. I totally 460 00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:57,159 understand her reasoning. I'm appalled that happened with those crime scene photos. That 461 00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,800 is just unconscionable. What must have been thinking He's going to be thinking about 462 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:06,960 it in jail, is I guess because he's going to be brought up in 463 00:38:07,039 --> 00:38:12,079 charges. I feel like this case, which has taken far too long to 464 00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:16,519 resolve the murder stretches all the way back to twenty seventeen. Richard Allen, 465 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:22,280 the primary suspect, was under the noses of law enforcement for that entire five 466 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:27,599 year period. It took them five years to figure out that he was the 467 00:38:27,599 --> 00:38:30,679 offender they were looking for. All the while, this guy is working at 468 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:36,639 CBS gosh yeah, where law enforcement people are traping in and out of there 469 00:38:36,679 --> 00:38:38,880 every day. And amazing, at least to me, he even looks a 470 00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:43,400 fair amount like the sketch. He does look like Bridge Guy of Bridge Guy 471 00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,079 the photographs and the sketch, and somehow this is overlooked, and then it 472 00:38:47,119 --> 00:38:51,760 takes five years for them to finally make an arrest. Now it's going to 473 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,719 be years before we actually see this case come to trial. That is all 474 00:38:54,719 --> 00:39:00,679 the true crime news that we feel we can highlight within this episode. There 475 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:04,639 is obviously always a lot going on in the field of true crime, and 476 00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:07,599 so Hopefully we picked some stories that you think are worthy, but we're always 477 00:39:07,639 --> 00:39:10,800 looking for others to report on. So if you've got some great true crime 478 00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:15,159 news that maybe we missed, please make sure you send it to us on 479 00:39:15,199 --> 00:39:19,880 our Facebook page or dm us and we will happily take a look at what 480 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:22,400 you've given us. I'm looking forward to twenty twenty four. We have so 481 00:39:22,519 --> 00:39:27,639 many more cases we want to get into and update you on the Colonial Parky 482 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,760 murders, other cases in Virginia we want to be talking about, and lots 483 00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,239 of great guests planned for this year, so I think it's going to be 484 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,199 a fantastic here. We can't thank everybody enough for your support over this calendar 485 00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:42,039 year. We're glad you have been with you here on mind Ever Murder. 486 00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:44,760 We thank you so very much for listening. That's going to do it for 487 00:39:44,800 --> 00:40:15,599 this episode of mind Never Murder. We'll see you next time. Mind Over 488 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:22,039 Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and Another Dog Productions. Our executive producers 489 00:40:22,079 --> 00:40:27,840 are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 490 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:32,599 Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership 491 00:40:32,679 --> 00:40:37,199 with Coral Space Media. You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or 492 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:43,039 Instagram. You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway murders on Facebook, 493 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,159 and finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at Bill Thomas. 494 00:40:46,400 --> 00:41:08,679 Five six. Thank you for listening to Mind Over Murder