1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:04,160 This podcast episode is brought to you by Coors Light. These days, everything 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:08,640 is go, go go. It's NonStop hustle all the time. Work, 3 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:13,080 friends, family expect you to be on twenty four seven. Well, sometimes 4 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,800 you just need to reach for a Coors Light because it's made to chill. 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:20,320 Coors Light is cold loggered, cold filtered, and cold package. It's as 6 00:00:20,359 --> 00:00:26,239 crisp and refreshing as the Colorado Rockies. He's literally made to chill. Coors 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,760 Light is the one I choose when I need to unwind. So when you 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,159 want to hit reset, reach for the beer that's made to chill. Get 9 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:36,439 Coors Light and the new look delivered straight to your door with drizzling or INSTATCRT 10 00:00:37,079 --> 00:00:42,880 Celebrate Responsibly Cores Brewing Company, Golden Colorado. Hey, this is Megan or 11 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,679 Pino and I'm super We've decided to turn our Crazy Ig Live show into a 12 00:00:48,719 --> 00:00:55,119 podcast for your listening pleasure. Enjoy the show. A Touch More. New 13 00:00:55,119 --> 00:00:59,600 episodes of A Touch More drop Tuesday only on the Blue Wire Podcast Network. 14 00:01:00,119 --> 00:01:03,640 Sure to subscribe to the show on Spotify, Apple, or anywhere else you 15 00:01:03,679 --> 00:01:23,239 listen to podcasts. Hey Howdy, Hey, Hardwoodknox listeners. I am Dan 16 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:26,959 for Valley, coming at you with my super duper incredibly esteemed, awesome, 17 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:32,280 times awesome, fantabulous Spectaculario is devastated that there were only two installments left of 18 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:36,920 the Last Dance Documentary. Co host Andrew D. Bailey. As you might 19 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,879 have guessed from that long winded intro, we are going to talk about episodes 20 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,480 seven and eight of the Last Dance Documentary, which were, as the first 21 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,879 six were very interesting. We'll talk getting deeper to some of the stuff that 22 00:01:49,879 --> 00:01:53,439 actually happened, and we're also going to talk about some things that we're hoping 23 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,159 to see from the final two episodes that we haven't necessarily seen just yet. 24 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,680 First, though, we have our usual housekeeping, Please please pretty please with 25 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:06,319 sugar on top rate review and subscribe to Hardwood Knox on iTunes. You can 26 00:02:06,359 --> 00:02:09,439 also find us wherever else you're getting your podcast Spotify, Stitcher, Google Play, 27 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:13,800 all those good places. Even if you are consuming us on those mediums, 28 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,840 please head over to iTunes search Hardwoodknox. 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Go to YouTube dot com search Hardwoo Knox and we will come 38 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,680 up. Subscribe like our videos. That helps too. Last, but certainly 39 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,680 not least, shout out to our sponsors that make this podcast possible, bet 40 00:02:58,719 --> 00:03:00,919 Online, dot AG and Lucu, who you will be hearing from in just 41 00:03:01,199 --> 00:03:07,719 a few moments. Andy, how the hell are you? I'm doing great. 42 00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:10,319 You're right. I am kind of sad there's only two of these left. 43 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:15,439 I have loved this entire series, but episodes seven and eight, for 44 00:03:15,479 --> 00:03:21,560 some reason, I just thought were incredible. I think they've had the biggest 45 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,599 effect on me so far. And just so you know, Kim Griffy Jr. 46 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,400 Hit fifty six home runs in nineteen ninety eight. That is ken generally 47 00:03:30,439 --> 00:03:35,080 related to a conversation we were having before we started podcasting. I don't know 48 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,039 if that's who you were thinking of, but I just I think it's wild 49 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,879 that a fifty six home run season it's just sort of lost to history. 50 00:03:39,879 --> 00:03:44,560 But that makes sense because McGuire hit seventy and sixty six. What a way 51 00:03:44,599 --> 00:03:49,120 to start a Michael Jordan podcast. This was well because I guess nineteen ninety 52 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,360 eight, so I mean it's it's kind of related well. And also they're 53 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,639 going to have the documentary on the McGuire a social chase. Maybe Griffy was 54 00:03:54,719 --> 00:03:58,599 involved early on. I'll have to look and see like where he was with 55 00:03:58,639 --> 00:04:00,639 his game logs, because I actually, for some reason, not that I 56 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,319 forgot about him, but I guess I didn't appreciate how early that was. 57 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:09,000 Like Griffy was still Griffy in ninety eight, I believe so. And this 58 00:04:09,039 --> 00:04:12,319 is my MLB history is lacking. Baseball used to be my favorite sport, 59 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:15,400 but right around the Millennias when I just sort of checked out. Maybe a 60 00:04:15,439 --> 00:04:17,560 little bit after that, I think after the Subway World Series is really when 61 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:24,600 I started dwindling there. However, this is a basketball podcast, so I'm 62 00:04:24,759 --> 00:04:27,199 in agreement with you. I've really enjoyed the last dance. I think you 63 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,199 need to appreciate it for what it is, which is Michael Jordan propaganda that 64 00:04:30,199 --> 00:04:32,399 you need to take with a grain of salt. And so if you're looking 65 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:39,399 to really just get into the innermost demons that are related to Michael Jordan, 66 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,600 like if you want a more impartial outlook at the gambling problems or the treatment 67 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,839 of Jerry Krauss, that's just not what this documentary is. And so as 68 00:04:46,879 --> 00:04:49,439 long as we can acknowledge that, I think it's totally fine to enjoy the 69 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,279 hell out of this, particularly when there's there's just nothing else happening. I 70 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,160 don't give it. I don't give a shit about UFC. It shouldn't even 71 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,879 be happening right now. I can't get into KBO. I'm sorry to care 72 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,279 and baseball players. So I think, particularly at this stage of life, 73 00:05:03,319 --> 00:05:06,000 with all that's going on, as long as you understand what this is, 74 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:12,120 you can absolutely positively enjoy the heck out of it. Yeah, and I 75 00:05:12,199 --> 00:05:19,079 have so far, right, I think it's just been really really gripping, 76 00:05:19,199 --> 00:05:23,759 captivating stuff. And I think a lot of the like maybe there's still some 77 00:05:23,879 --> 00:05:29,319 bombshell to come and episode nine or ten. But all the talk about how 78 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:33,920 people are gonna hate Jordan after this, it's like it's had the opposite effect 79 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,959 on the talk was started by Jordan himself, and so that seems like a 80 00:05:36,959 --> 00:05:42,519 pretty calculated move on his behalf, almost sort of overselling what we were going 81 00:05:42,519 --> 00:05:46,000 to see. Yeah, yeah, I mean that that that could be for 82 00:05:46,079 --> 00:05:50,120 sure, But I think it's just a lot of it's it's behind the scenes 83 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:56,319 of a lot of stuff that people already knew about Jordan. I just texted 84 00:05:56,319 --> 00:06:01,000 my brother today after I watched these episodes and said, I feel like this 85 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:05,199 documentary is just kind of making me happy and confirming my decision to put him 86 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:11,120 above Lebron in the top fifty that Bleacher Report had me do last summer. 87 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,759 I know that you've kind of been I don't know if you've taken a definitive 88 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:16,560 stand on whether it's Lebron or Jordan, and I don't know if this has 89 00:06:16,639 --> 00:06:24,839 changed your mind, but I there really is an intangible quality with Jordan, 90 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:26,720 and you and I have talked about this. I think we talked about it 91 00:06:26,759 --> 00:06:29,839 on the last Takeaways pod that we did that we were a little too young 92 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:32,439 to have like great, great vivid memories of this and like all the behind 93 00:06:32,439 --> 00:06:36,720 the scenes stuff, but I do remember a feeling of inevitability whenever Jordan was 94 00:06:36,759 --> 00:06:40,399 in a series against somebody, it just felt like he was going to win. 95 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:44,639 And I don't think i've ever seen that with any player since then. 96 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:46,160 Part of that, and I'm going to actually an agreement with you, that's 97 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,879 how I felt, probably because I was so young that every shot he took 98 00:06:50,199 --> 00:06:53,639 I assumed was just going to go in. And I've never felt like that 99 00:06:53,959 --> 00:06:58,879 about a player except for maybe twenty fifteen. Twenty sixteen Stephen Curry is really 100 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,959 the last time I've even, yeah, come close to feeling that way. 101 00:07:02,079 --> 00:07:05,360 And maybe there's like a little bit of youthful ignorance there with the inevitability of 102 00:07:05,439 --> 00:07:10,759 Jordan, because we weren't necessarily old enough to understand more of the intricacies of 103 00:07:10,759 --> 00:07:14,519 the game or remember some of the just the poor outings that he had if 104 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,279 you're not following the game as closely. But I absolutely understand the mystique around 105 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:24,240 Jordan now in when we're talking about people who believe he's the greatest player of 106 00:07:24,279 --> 00:07:26,879 all time. I do not. I don't get nostalgic for the game. 107 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,600 I'm not watching this footage and then seeing that the scores were like seventy six 108 00:07:29,639 --> 00:07:31,240 to seventy three, being like I really missed this shit. No I don't. 109 00:07:32,199 --> 00:07:34,920 I will. However, my second point is that though while I understand 110 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,759 Jordan's case as the goat better than ever, I've never had less of a 111 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:46,040 desire to pit him against Lebron James, just because the circumstances of everything about 112 00:07:46,079 --> 00:07:49,000 their career were just so different. There's you know, there's a talk about 113 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:53,959 the supporting cast. Lebron has never played with another top five player in the 114 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,000 league at the time, and Jordan had that a lot with Scottie Pip and 115 00:07:57,079 --> 00:08:00,360 Anthony Davis. Is probably the closest Lebron has come, I would say to 116 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,600 that. Dwayne Wade was pretty close that first year too, Yeah, that 117 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:07,800 first year, but just looking at viability and then beyond that, the game 118 00:08:07,839 --> 00:08:11,839 is so different. Also, the coverage is so different, and so we've 119 00:08:11,879 --> 00:08:16,439 talked about this too, where that mystique around Jordan was probably a little bit 120 00:08:16,519 --> 00:08:20,800 born from the scarcity of the coverage, Whereas yes, there were still media 121 00:08:20,839 --> 00:08:24,199 scrumbs and all that, but there just wasn't that social media access, and 122 00:08:24,199 --> 00:08:28,600 so Lebron seems like he's in our face twenty four seven, three sixty five, 123 00:08:28,680 --> 00:08:33,159 because not only our players more accessible, but they're more robotic with their 124 00:08:33,200 --> 00:08:35,200 brand management, and so we have more access, but they're less candid, 125 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:41,559 and I think that's detracted from Lebron's mystique more so than it did for Jordan's. 126 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,639 And I don't think there's really anything wrong about that. I just agree 127 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,200 with you though, that those are really my two points. Is that I 128 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,960 understand people being so stubborn about Jordan being the goat. I've also never had 129 00:08:52,399 --> 00:08:56,440 less of an inclination to have that discussion between he and Lebron after watching this. 130 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,240 And I don't know if that makes sense to you at all. It 131 00:09:00,279 --> 00:09:05,200 does, And I actually have something in the pipeline. It was actually pitched 132 00:09:05,279 --> 00:09:09,440 to me by the editors to basically make the case that you don't need to 133 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,600 compare the two. I don't I don't know when that will come together, 134 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:18,080 but I think that's an interesting way to look at it. And I actually 135 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,360 I can't remember who it was. I think it was on a radio spot 136 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:26,399 or something. Somebody asked me about ranking players, and I just talked about 137 00:09:26,399 --> 00:09:31,200 how difficult. It is, and to me it's there's two big, big 138 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:35,799 difficulties. One is across eras, which I think a lot of people talk 139 00:09:35,879 --> 00:09:39,159 about. So it's just difficult to compare Michael Jordan who played in the nineties. 140 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,440 Like you said, the games are just a lot different. The scores 141 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:46,039 are lower, the way defense was played was different. I think the level 142 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:50,320 of I think the talent pool was a little bit more shallow than which is 143 00:09:50,399 --> 00:09:54,320 understandable. The game has just continued to grow over the years, so it's 144 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:01,000 difficult to compare across eras and then to just judge someone's talent level. In 145 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:07,559 basketball, I think the margins are so so thin that it's hard to definitively 146 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:11,840 say, well, this player is better than that player, so it's almost 147 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:16,120 easier to do like tears, and within the same era, it's impossible to 148 00:10:16,159 --> 00:10:20,480 compare. So I don't know if there is a way to definitively say this 149 00:10:20,639 --> 00:10:26,960 is the best player ever. But as I've watched this documentary again, I 150 00:10:26,039 --> 00:10:31,240 just I think I also like the distinction. I'm rambling at this point, 151 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:35,799 but I like the distinction between greatest and best two, which I know is 152 00:10:35,799 --> 00:10:37,879 like a semantics thing, but When you watch Jordan and you see some of 153 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:43,559 these quotes that he's giving in these interviews about his desire to win and his 154 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:50,159 competitiveness and stuff like that, I just I can't imagine anybody ever merging competitiveness 155 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:56,960 and talent to the same degree that Jordan did. I think there are incredibly 156 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:01,679 talented players. I think there are incredibly competitive players. His combination of those 157 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,360 two things, I just don't know if I can put anybody on that level. 158 00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:09,919 Well, then this documentary has succeeded. You've bought into the Michael Jordan 159 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,440 propaganda. That's a good that's actually a good spot to actually cannonball into these 160 00:11:13,519 --> 00:11:18,279 two episodes, though is I'd like to go through maybe what our favorite quotes 161 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:22,519 or moments were in a second, But I think given the subject matter of 162 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:28,559 these two episodes, it's the closest this documentary has really come to humanizing Michael 163 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,240 Jordan. Like we saw a little bit of the footage I think in episodes 164 00:11:31,279 --> 00:11:33,879 five and six about how he was getting tired of fame, but this time 165 00:11:33,919 --> 00:11:37,600 this deals with the murder of his father, his first retirement, what he 166 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:41,879 was going through in baseball, how he was even kind of perturbed from Afar 167 00:11:43,039 --> 00:11:46,879 when Pippin didn't go into the game in the final seconds of game three of 168 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:50,440 I think it was the ninety four semifinals at that point, hopefully I'm not 169 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,480 misremembering there, and then just subsequent the desire to win to where I still 170 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:58,320 don't understand why he was crying at the end of was that episode seven or 171 00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:01,279 episode eight? There? It was episode seven, correct, Just all sort 172 00:12:01,279 --> 00:12:05,759 of blurring together. But it's kind of dealing also with maybe it feels like 173 00:12:05,799 --> 00:12:11,559 he was a little bit affected about how people perceive his treatment and relationship with 174 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:15,519 teammates. Perhaps he doesn't care, but it did seem like he was trying 175 00:12:15,519 --> 00:12:20,080 to justify why he was so hard on his teammates while at the same time 176 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:26,120 retaining that level of mythology to where I'll use whatever it is to fuel my 177 00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,399 drive to win. It was I don't even remember the guy's name right now, 178 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:33,320 I'm almost blanking yes, And so he makes up Bradford Smith saying good 179 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:37,799 game, Michael at the end of his just random outbursts that he can hold 180 00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:41,279 the grudge over and just torch him there. There was a nice balance of 181 00:12:41,279 --> 00:12:45,080 that, but again between covering the murder of his father, which was clearly 182 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,480 tragic, and him talking about his relationship with teammates, trying to explain why 183 00:12:48,519 --> 00:12:52,240 he was the way he was going through. They delved more into his fatigue 184 00:12:52,759 --> 00:12:56,480 with fame at the time a little bit and segueing into into baseball. I 185 00:12:56,480 --> 00:13:01,639 think these two episodes probably humanized Jordan more so than than any of the previous 186 00:13:01,639 --> 00:13:05,480 ones. Yeah. I think that's probably true, And maybe that's why I 187 00:13:05,519 --> 00:13:11,000 love these two so much, because I think like it delved a little bit 188 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:16,440 deeper into who Jordan was, what drove him, what made him the maniacal 189 00:13:16,879 --> 00:13:22,799 competitor that he was. Attention Hardwood Knox listeners. 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That's promo code of blue Wire all one word that online, 199 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:09,720 you're online wagering experts. The stuff about his father was, you know, 200 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,519 tragic, obviously very interesting too. I liked the story he told about 201 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,840 how he got suspended three times as a sophomore in high school and his dad 202 00:14:18,879 --> 00:14:24,679 had kind of a heart to heart with him. And basically what got Jordan 203 00:14:24,759 --> 00:14:26,759 to realize or to get on the right track, so to speak, was 204 00:14:26,799 --> 00:14:30,480 he said, if you if you don't get this, if you don't get 205 00:14:30,519 --> 00:14:35,320 on the right track, you can't play sports anymore. And that was enough 206 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,039 to kind of get him where he needed to go. And it just he 207 00:14:39,039 --> 00:14:43,679 obviously had a close relationship with his father. I thought it was interesting that 208 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:48,000 he said my dad taught me to turn a negative into a positive when talking 209 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:54,879 about his father's death, which I'm sure I don't even know how you turn 210 00:14:54,000 --> 00:15:01,679 that into a positive. Maybe he eventually did. It was his opportunity to 211 00:15:01,759 --> 00:15:03,519 chase this dream that he had and that his father had for him to go 212 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:09,360 play baseball. The stuff with his father was was really really good to me. 213 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:13,159 And that's so he actually just misremember for a minute. He the episodes. 214 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,759 Both of them end with him crying. The first one is when he's 215 00:15:16,759 --> 00:15:20,960 talking about it, I guess, like the his desire to win or whatever. 216 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,960 But then it's when they beat the the Sonics right in ninety six. 217 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,919 That part was awesome when he says this one's for dad or I can't remember 218 00:15:28,960 --> 00:15:31,360 exactly what he says to a modern shot. But then they show him just 219 00:15:31,399 --> 00:15:37,080 bawling and the training sobbing on the floor, and that's the part that really 220 00:15:37,159 --> 00:15:39,279 hit me more so than than the first one. And so that was really 221 00:15:39,279 --> 00:15:43,919 a peak pint of curtain. This is related to that too. Apparently the 222 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:48,960 take machines were just always Shernan, doesn't matter what time period we're talking about. 223 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:52,559 When when his father gets murdered and there the headlines are. Is this 224 00:15:52,639 --> 00:15:58,360 related to Jordan's gambling? Yeah, I just And I'm going to preface it 225 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:02,840 with this as someone who is probably made jokes in poor taste before, one 226 00:16:02,879 --> 00:16:06,360 of which, as I've openly admitted, was about Rudy Gobert and the coronavirus. 227 00:16:06,879 --> 00:16:11,440 Never in a zillion years would I ever think about jumping to that type 228 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:18,919 of conclusion, especially while being serious about it, Like that's a level of 229 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:23,279 it's not even misreporting. It's almost worse than claiming that all of Kobe Bryant's 230 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,440 children were on the helicopter with him. They're the same level of bad, 231 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,759 really, But it's like, how do you like not confirm sources there? 232 00:16:30,799 --> 00:16:34,240 And then how do you speculate about something like how do you forget on even 233 00:16:34,279 --> 00:16:40,000 if this guy seems like an icon in a way where he's untouchable and not 234 00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:42,440 human, how do you forget to that extent that he's human that you're going 235 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:45,679 to go right into Is it his fault that his dad was murdered? I 236 00:16:45,799 --> 00:16:51,000 was I did not remember that coverage tying into it, So I was fucking 237 00:16:51,039 --> 00:16:56,320 flabbergasted when I saw that I liked his statement on that. I simply cannot 238 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:03,799 comprehend how others could intendinly pour salt in my open wound by insinuating that mistakes 239 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:08,759 in my life or in some way connected to my father's death. And we 240 00:17:08,759 --> 00:17:12,640 we complain about the hot take machines that are just always seemed to be an 241 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,839 overdrive nowadays, But you're right, it's it seems like that is not exclusive 242 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:22,880 to our era. Maybe they're not as quickly distributed to the masses as they 243 00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:29,839 are today with you know, sixty second recaps of first take or whatever it 244 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:34,039 is whatever the Fox Sports show is called. I can't I can't remember it. 245 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:37,519 Sorry skipping Shannon. No, that was a nice fu to Fox Sports. 246 00:17:37,519 --> 00:17:42,720 I support it, but yeah, I mean those that that that take 247 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:51,039 was just wild to me. And it's another example of, uh, how 248 00:17:51,079 --> 00:17:56,480 do you how do you exist in that space that Jordan was in, that 249 00:17:56,599 --> 00:18:00,200 level of fame where the instant reaction to the death of a loved one is 250 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:07,640 that I just I can't imagine first dealing with the death of your father at 251 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:12,240 such an early age and then just like he's he put it, I I 252 00:18:12,319 --> 00:18:19,000 can't comprehend someone doing that. So that was fascinating for sure. Yeah, 253 00:18:19,039 --> 00:18:22,640 there's just like it's not even it's worse than selective memory when it comes to 254 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,039 professional athletes. It's it's like when people talk about they get mad that that 255 00:18:27,079 --> 00:18:30,680 there's a comparison between Lebron being more of an activist than Jordan, and then 256 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,720 they'll just say that Lebron needs to do more, but like they forget he 257 00:18:33,759 --> 00:18:37,359 opened a school and like he's had all these just programs that help kids go 258 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,960 to college. And I'm not actually arguing over him, and we people just 259 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:48,160 forget Lebron's activism and ignore the China stuff. Right. It's and people there 260 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,920 can't be like a gray area anymore. It has to be cut and dry 261 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:55,200 where you're on one side of the fence where you can't acknowledge that, hey, 262 00:18:55,279 --> 00:18:57,200 Lebron's done a lot of good. But pretty much all this commentary on 263 00:18:57,319 --> 00:19:02,799 China is incredibly hypoco critical. And that's not even just you know, that's 264 00:19:02,799 --> 00:19:06,880 not even just related to NBA players. The other sort of thing that I 265 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,279 find ridiculous, and it didn't have to do with MJ's father's death, but 266 00:19:10,319 --> 00:19:15,400 had to do with the gambling. We get David Stern commenting on Interesting, 267 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:18,839 Yeah, yeah, MJ's hiatus from the NBA, and a lot of or 268 00:19:18,839 --> 00:19:23,920 I would say a good many people have speculated that the league suspended Jordan because 269 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,599 of his gambling, and David Stern said this, The folklore, the urban 270 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:33,480 legend that I sent him away because he was gambling is ridiculous. It's just 271 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:38,079 not true. And I not having any inside information on this. I don't 272 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:44,240 know how anyone could think that that actually happened, just because why would David 273 00:19:44,319 --> 00:19:48,480 Stern, who's trying to build the league's brand, jettison it's most marketable, 274 00:19:48,799 --> 00:19:56,000 most profitable player. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah, 275 00:19:56,039 --> 00:20:00,759 by far, the most marketable player they've ever had. We talked about his 276 00:20:00,839 --> 00:20:03,359 shoe deal in the last episode we did together, and how he, you 277 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:11,759 know, beat their projections for sales by like a thousand percent. He drove 278 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,599 the league to a level of visibility that it just hadn't had in the past. 279 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,319 And to say, okay, you're done in the prime of your career 280 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:25,160 when you're coming off a third championship, I mean, he was as hot 281 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:30,920 as celebrities get at that time. So to ban him from basketball for a 282 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:37,559 year because of some gambling debts that that conspiracy theory never really made a lot 283 00:20:37,599 --> 00:20:41,400 of sense, and they had David Stern talked about it. I can't remember 284 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:45,640 who else they drew quote quotes from on that, but there was five or 285 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,279 six people that just emphatically denied it, and they even brought up that same 286 00:20:48,319 --> 00:20:55,599 sort of logical argument that you made that it just it just didn't make sense 287 00:20:55,599 --> 00:20:57,960 in the first place, So I think, yeah, there was there's probably 288 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,359 five or ten minutes to vote to No. That theory is ridiculous. So 289 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,640 let's move on. What else did you was some of your favorite moments from 290 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:11,200 this Maybe I don't. We probably didn't touch enough on just how they were 291 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,000 trying to capture the competitive nature of Jordan to the point that again he's in 292 00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:18,920 tears at the end of episode seven, and you you had to kind of 293 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,319 help me understand that moment, because I was like, it was nice to 294 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,599 see, and I think as a documentary maker, you probably want that moment 295 00:21:25,599 --> 00:21:27,400 where he has to call for break at the end, like you want that 296 00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,480 on camera, and it didn't. It seemed to be legitimate, But I'm 297 00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:36,599 like, of all, I just didn't. I just didn't understand it necessarily. 298 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,200 If that's really how badly he wanted to win, I guess I respect 299 00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:42,799 it, but I probably respected a little bit more if he's actually just concerned 300 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:47,960 that people really think he's an asshole and he doesn't want to be remembered as 301 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,039 that asshole. Yeah, so I kind of thought about it from that perspective 302 00:21:52,079 --> 00:21:55,680 after you and I texted about it, and I think You're probably right. 303 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:59,480 In the moment when I saw it, I thought he was, like, 304 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:07,359 he's just that emotionally invested in winning that even like looking back on it and 305 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:12,519 thinking about it stirs up some emotions inside of him. But your interpretation and 306 00:22:12,559 --> 00:22:15,039 I may just need to watch the last five minutes again. I might have 307 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:18,200 just been typing it at the moment or something as I was doing the takeaways. 308 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,599 But that would also make sense if he was because it was just coming 309 00:22:23,599 --> 00:22:27,960 off the stories about how hard he was on his teammates. If he looks 310 00:22:27,960 --> 00:22:33,160 back on those relationships, because when you spend a lot of time with a 311 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:37,240 team in sports at any level, those those guys become your brothers. And 312 00:22:37,279 --> 00:22:41,640 I'm sure it's even more so in the NBA because you're on you know, 313 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,319 you're on these plane trips all the time. You you basically are family for 314 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,039 nine or ten months out of the year. So maybe if he looks back 315 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,960 and he hears these quotes from his teammates about how difficult it was to play 316 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,200 with him and stuff, I could see how you could, you know, 317 00:22:55,759 --> 00:23:00,279 with the benefit of hindsight, he's now many many years removed from the game. 318 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:04,640 He thinks, geez, maybe maybe there is a little bit of remorse 319 00:23:06,759 --> 00:23:08,400 towards that. Now, there are other comments that he's made in the documentary 320 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,119 that would suggest that there's no remorse, and maybe you just it just depends 321 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:17,599 on which question you catch him with or you know at what moment you catch 322 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:22,640 him, because you know he has some quotes even in this episode I thought 323 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:27,759 were really fascinating. I'm trying to find one from my Oh okay here it 324 00:23:27,799 --> 00:23:33,599 is winning has a price, and leadership has a price. So I pulled 325 00:23:33,599 --> 00:23:36,759 people along when they didn't want to be pulled. I challenged people when they 326 00:23:36,759 --> 00:23:41,240 didn't want to be challenged. They talked about the fight with Steve Kerr in 327 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,640 this episode. There was another quote from Jordan where he said I tried to 328 00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,759 get him to fight me a couple of times, talking about Scott Burrell. 329 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:56,960 There was the stuff with bj Armstrong. It just seemed like probably every single 330 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:02,480 teammate he had at some point was in the Jordan crossairs because he just he 331 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,440 demanded a level of competitiveness out of guys that many of them probably didn't have, 332 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:11,039 and it became obviously a hallmark of his career and it's it's now becoming 333 00:24:11,039 --> 00:24:15,079 a hallmark of this documentary. Well, Steve Kerry even said his theory was, 334 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,519 if you can't handle pressure from me, you're not going to be able 335 00:24:18,519 --> 00:24:22,359 to hander handle pressure of the NBA playoffs. And also the quote that you 336 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:27,119 sort of dropped for series going off in the background, excuse me, Serie 337 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:32,680 needs to shut up on him recording podcast. Man. So the quote that 338 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,640 you just related from Jordan, he also finished it with and when he's talked 339 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,039 about challenging his teammate, he's saying, and I earned that right because my 340 00:24:38,039 --> 00:24:41,519 teammates who came after me, they didn't endure all the things that I endured. 341 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,920 Yeah. And is that the quote that he ended up tearing up onto 342 00:24:45,079 --> 00:24:48,160 after or was that the one about the tyrant? Because he was He even 343 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,319 said the documentary, when people see this, they're gonna say, well, 344 00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,240 he wasn't really a nice guy. He may have been a tyrant. And 345 00:24:55,279 --> 00:24:57,680 he said he also says, well that's you because you never won anything. 346 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:03,759 I can't tell if is it a level of just entitlement, is it a 347 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:07,440 level of self confidence? Is he just trying to justify everything he does did 348 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:11,119 because he wants the perception of him to be better. Does he just want 349 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,880 to not be sorry for the way he acted. It feels like there's a 350 00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,640 lot of layers to just the way he treated his teammates and the drive to 351 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:22,160 win, and then how that's related to how he wants to be perceived. 352 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,200 It's all of a sudden become very confusing to me after seeing this documentary in 353 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,839 a way that it wasn't beforehand. Well, maybe maybe there are layers, 354 00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:33,640 and maybe there's layers to it for him too, and that's why he gets 355 00:25:34,559 --> 00:25:41,599 randomly emotional about it now. I really do want to go back and rewatch 356 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,960 the last at least interview there in episode seven, to at least have a 357 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,039 better idea of what made him emotional in that moment, because I do I 358 00:25:51,079 --> 00:25:53,480 do think that he's there's kind of like a push and pull within him. 359 00:25:53,480 --> 00:26:00,359 I mean, it's it's kind of wild for me to play armchair psychologists through 360 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,839 the documentary to Michael Jordan, but it does seem like there's maybe some conflicting 361 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:08,400 feelings there. Guys, are you looking to last longer than the value of 362 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,440 a New York Knicks first round draft pick? 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All one word, just 372 00:26:49,799 --> 00:26:56,920 pay five dollars shipping again, that's the blue chew dot Com promo code blue 373 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,960 Wire. They are something else that stood out to me. They got into 374 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:06,279 Pippin's sitting out the final seconds of it was the ninety four semifinals, right 375 00:27:06,279 --> 00:27:11,519 when Tony Kukach tipped that came three winner. This was one of the weirdest 376 00:27:11,599 --> 00:27:15,039 quotes to me. Scotty Pippen says, it's one of those incidents where I 377 00:27:15,039 --> 00:27:17,359 wish it never happened, but if I had a chance to do it over 378 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,799 again, I probably wouldn't change it. Yeah, just a complete contradiction. 379 00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,200 Well, so, one thing that has stood up to me through the documentary 380 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:32,680 is Pippen is like almost as much of a competitive maniac as Jordan. Right, 381 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,480 Pippin also needs to nat rate books on tape. But that's that's just 382 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:41,880 a side note. Yeah, for sure, Yeah, there's and I I 383 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,680 almost for I can't even say it for god, because I probably didn't recognize 384 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,599 at the time. There's just been a re emphasis of how actually good Scottie 385 00:27:47,599 --> 00:27:51,079 Pippen was, Like that ninety four bulls team was legit and he was the 386 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,880 driving force behind it. And the fact that he did sit out, Yeah, 387 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,119 it was a selfish act, but it's because he wanted the ball in 388 00:27:57,160 --> 00:28:03,079 those final seconds and Phil Jackson was like, he didn't even tell anyone that 389 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,440 he was checking out either, though only wondering Phil Jackson find out. He 390 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,160 was basically like, fuck him. It was just it was so bizarre. 391 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,759 But I guess you're right, it's I didn't really now that you've said it, 392 00:28:11,759 --> 00:28:15,799 it does kind of show how much of a maniacal competitor that he was 393 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,880 not just Jordan. Yeah, my favorite part about that little story too, 394 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:26,799 was probably when they when Kerr and Bill Cartwright recalled the speech that Cartwright gave 395 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,480 a lot of crying in this episode. Yeah, yeah, I guess they 396 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,279 said Cartwright was crying in his speech and just saying like, we never would 397 00:28:34,319 --> 00:28:38,079 have expected that you would quit on us. And it sounds like that was 398 00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:44,000 kind of a turning point for a lot of those guys with Pippen. And 399 00:28:44,039 --> 00:28:47,960 it's interesting too because you know, earlier in that little portion of the episode 400 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,599 they talked about what a different and that almost seemed relieved to talk about Pippin's 401 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,720 leadership style as opposed to Jordan's. They were saying that, you know, 402 00:28:56,759 --> 00:29:00,920 he was the leader, but he wasn't nearly as demand. He wasn't cussing 403 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:06,799 people out, and so maybe they grew to appreciate that style over the course 404 00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:08,160 of the season and then, you know, to have it built up all 405 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,200 year and then kind of be let down in that big moment, it was 406 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:18,720 probably difficult for them. I really noticed Phil Jackson's face after Kukoch hits the 407 00:29:18,759 --> 00:29:22,279 shot and they show everybody walking off the court. You can tell that he's 408 00:29:22,359 --> 00:29:26,759 upset about something, because that's you know, that's a big moment. Your 409 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:30,559 star player refuses to go back into the game. That's huge. And you 410 00:29:30,599 --> 00:29:33,279 know, they sounds like they got over it. They didn't win that series, 411 00:29:34,079 --> 00:29:37,519 but just from you know, a teammate chemistry standpoint, it sounds like 412 00:29:37,559 --> 00:29:41,680 they were okay. Yeah. I mean, maybe I didn't pay enough homage 413 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:45,240 to it when Steve Kerr was saying it while we were watching, but Steve 414 00:29:45,319 --> 00:29:47,960 Kerry even said, Scotty's one of our favorite teammates, one of our favorite 415 00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,160 people in the world. He quit on us. We couldn't believe that happened. 416 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:55,160 It was devastating, and so there definitely was that level of shock there 417 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,440 that they had to deal with. It wasn't even just the act itself, 418 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:00,200 but the source of it, because it doesn't seem like anyone have expected something 419 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,599 like that to come from Pip and so that that was a great point. 420 00:30:03,599 --> 00:30:07,640 I didn't really give it much consideration in the moment. Let's go back to 421 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:12,119 the Kur fight for a second too, because I was just I was thinking 422 00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,279 about Phil Jackson and the way he reacts to things. I thought it was 423 00:30:15,319 --> 00:30:21,720 kind of funny in hindsight, at least, I mean, it's not funny 424 00:30:21,759 --> 00:30:23,680 that Jordan beat up Steve Kerr. But I mean he punched him in the 425 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,680 eye, didn't beat him up. He punched him in ye, well, 426 00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:30,519 so he punched him in the eye. But then in a different interview he 427 00:30:30,559 --> 00:30:33,599 said he beat up the littlest guy on the court, So I don't I 428 00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:36,680 don't know. Can we also ask for a minute, how do you not 429 00:30:36,759 --> 00:30:40,720 have Steve Kerr's number? He was like he had a call someone to get 430 00:30:40,759 --> 00:30:45,880 Steve Kerr's number, Like what, Yeah, that's weird. Maybe maybe you 431 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:52,759 don't get Jordan doesn't have your number until you stand up for yourself. But 432 00:30:52,839 --> 00:30:56,240 I thought it was kind of funny that Phil Jackson goes down into the locker 433 00:30:56,359 --> 00:30:59,440 room or wherever, I can't remember where they met up and Jordan, before 434 00:30:59,599 --> 00:31:03,079 Jackson even said any thing, he goes I know I went too far at 435 00:31:03,079 --> 00:31:07,960 that time, But it was interesting that Kurs said that that was the moment 436 00:31:07,039 --> 00:31:12,880 that kind of garnered Jordan's respect for him, and it's you know, it's 437 00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:17,799 funny that he says, I tried to get Scott Burrell to fight me in 438 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,720 practice too, Like it wasn't just come on, guys, let's try harder 439 00:31:21,759 --> 00:31:25,119 and practice you know, let's let's get this right, you know, just 440 00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:29,720 sort of go through the motion stuff Like he wanted to bring demons out of 441 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:36,440 people. He wanted to unearth the most competitive impulses that these guys had, 442 00:31:36,559 --> 00:31:41,119 because I think in Jordan's mind, we're not gonna we're not gonna win championships, 443 00:31:41,119 --> 00:31:44,119 which is, you know, it seems like all he cares about. 444 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:48,319 And another interesting quote from him was, I'm sidetracking myself at this point, 445 00:31:48,359 --> 00:31:52,039 but he said, the playoffs is the highest level of competition that we have 446 00:31:52,119 --> 00:31:56,000 in our game. You got eighty two games in the regular season, but 447 00:31:56,039 --> 00:31:59,279 you can kick all that aside. The playoffs is the playoffs, and to 448 00:31:59,319 --> 00:32:01,960 be able to play against the best competition. That was the driving force for 449 00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,599 me, without a doubt. And so I think he knew that I need 450 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,680 guys. Nobody's going to be as good as me, but I need guys 451 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:14,079 who are at least going to fight as hard as I do in the playoffs. 452 00:32:14,079 --> 00:32:15,640 And I think that was that was sort of the motivation for a lot 453 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:21,839 of what he did with teammates. Yeah, it's just I don't I don't 454 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:24,240 even know where I ultimately fall on it. It seems like they're that we 455 00:32:24,279 --> 00:32:29,160 could get a lot more into it, and it's actually gonna be one of 456 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,160 the things that I point out when we talked about what we're still sort of 457 00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:35,559 hoping to see. Was there anything else that stood out on a profound level 458 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,119 or just something that was funny that you took away from these two episodes of 459 00:32:38,119 --> 00:32:45,039 The Doctor. I'll just do some rapid fire ones. They they delve into 460 00:32:45,119 --> 00:32:49,119 his baseball season a little bit. I thought it was interesting when Terry Frank 461 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:52,960 COONa said if he could have had fifteen hundred at bats, he would have 462 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,799 been in the majors, you know, a two out two average. We 463 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,759 kind of look at that in scoff, but then you know, the guy 464 00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:01,279 hadn't played baseball for fourteen years, and he drove in fifty one runs in 465 00:33:01,319 --> 00:33:07,400 Double A and hit two oho two and it sounds like made that thirteen hitting 466 00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,640 Street Street started getting streaked to start the season. And I thought the stuff 467 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:15,240 was really cool about how he was ticked off at the media coverage and so 468 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:19,720 he spent all these extra hours in the batting cages getting his swing right, 469 00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:22,839 and I you know, I gotta take Terry Frank COONa at his word. 470 00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,079 I mean, I think he's a pretty good manager. He's won a World 471 00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:30,440 Series, and I gotta trust what I've seen from Jordan as a basketball player 472 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,559 too. I think if he had stuck with it, you know, he's 473 00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:36,440 not going to turn into Willie Mays or anything. But I wouldn't have been 474 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:39,559 surprised if he could have figured it out. Yeah, I think that's totally 475 00:33:39,599 --> 00:33:47,119 fair that we we already mentioned the the fake slight that he invented from le 476 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:52,599 Bradford Smith. That was fascinating. The way he went at bj Armstrong like 477 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:54,960 he was he was just looking for people to go at all the time. 478 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,680 There was a step jam go ahead, Oh yeah, that was It's almost 479 00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,240 like his just it's back to his work ethic talking about how he's has he's 480 00:34:05,279 --> 00:34:07,359 on call, like he has to wake up at seven or that's when his 481 00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:09,079 first call is. Then he gets a two hour break, he's practicing, 482 00:34:09,079 --> 00:34:13,039 Then he does his last call at like six or seven at night, and 483 00:34:13,079 --> 00:34:16,159 then he goes to scrimmaging with actual NBA players. Reggie Miller's there, Patrick 484 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:20,360 Ewing's there, and then he lifts weights and then does it all over again. 485 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:24,800 Pretty amazing. And the fact that he you know, basically made Warner 486 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:30,360 Brothers build him a gym with an NBA floor on it. That actually wasn't 487 00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:35,039 that surprising to me. But and one other thing that kind of stood out 488 00:34:35,039 --> 00:34:39,760 to me. Nobody ever talks about the fact that the Bulls lost in ninety 489 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:44,840 five that first season back, and they go into that a little bit in 490 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,440 this episode, and I thought he maybe he needed one more loss to kind 491 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:57,960 of spur those next three championships. It seems like he took that personally, 492 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,920 as he seemed to take a lot of losses per in his career, and 493 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:05,239 that was sort of the kickstart when he came back from baseball. Losing that 494 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,840 series. I think in the long run was was probably a good thing for 495 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:12,039 him. Interesting to see Horace Grant blossom too as soon as he left Chicago. 496 00:35:12,599 --> 00:35:16,079 Yeah, and who was it that said that forty five isn't twenty three? 497 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:22,840 When Jordan were still he said some some tough moments in NBA history. 498 00:35:23,039 --> 00:35:29,960 Yeah, mystery throws perhaps, And then Jordan changes back to twenty three and 499 00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:31,519 kind of dominates. And the quote there I thought was interesting too. He 500 00:35:31,559 --> 00:35:35,400 said, I just felt like forty five wasn't natural. I wanted to go 501 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:42,400 back to the feeling I had with twenty three, yeah, which is this 502 00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:45,840 isn't you know, a terribly original point, but there's a ton of sort 503 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:51,239 of I can't even think of the word. Why am I blanking on this? 504 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,559 I'm banging in suspense right now? Oh my gosh. Superstition, Holy 505 00:35:58,679 --> 00:36:04,880 kel why did that so much superstition in sports? And yeah, I meant 506 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,400 my brother. I don't know if I've ever talked to about him much on 507 00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:10,400 the podcast, but he was a professional basketball player for a while. He 508 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:16,280 wore the same rubber band on his hand every every game one of his years 509 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:20,639 in college. Like there's just these little tiny things and you convince yourself in 510 00:36:20,679 --> 00:36:23,920 your mind that this has something to do with why I'm performing so well athletically. 511 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:30,719 So I've got to keep going with this. And it's it's not surprising 512 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:34,960 that Jordan has some of those ticks, No, not at all. What 513 00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,519 are you hoping to see from the last two episodes of the documentary that maybe 514 00:36:37,519 --> 00:36:45,760 we haven't seen yet or haven't gotten enough of the jazz shocker? And I 515 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:50,000 know I can't remember who said that. Maybe it was a rash Mark Kazy. 516 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:52,480 I think he's with the Los Angeles Times Now. I think he tweeted 517 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,760 something the other day about how Stockton filled in his interview for this, like 518 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,519 the day before the season shut down. They were still in the midst of 519 00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:06,400 putting this together when the season shut down. This was supposed to come out 520 00:37:07,159 --> 00:37:10,599 in August or September or something like that, and so they had time to 521 00:37:10,639 --> 00:37:14,840 put the finishing touches in all these episodes. I think as of a couple 522 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,559 of weeks ago, they were still working on episodes nine and ten. So 523 00:37:19,679 --> 00:37:23,440 obviously that's that's his opponent in the last Dance season is the Utah Jazz. 524 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,280 So it'll be interesting to see, you know, how how deep they go 525 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:31,199 into those teams. Have They've They've spent a little time on some of these 526 00:37:31,599 --> 00:37:36,000 Bowls opponents, Like you know, they spent some time with Barkley and the 527 00:37:36,039 --> 00:37:40,519 Suns, and you know this episode. One more takeaway is the stuff with 528 00:37:40,559 --> 00:37:46,119 Gary Peyton and Michael Jordan was hilarious when they play that clip of Peyton saying 529 00:37:46,119 --> 00:37:52,960 that he bothered Jordan and Jordan just starts cackling when he That was one of 530 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:55,920 my favorite scenes. But anyway, they've spent some time with a lot of 531 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,679 Jordan's opponents, and I think this one. Maybe I'm biased, but I 532 00:38:00,679 --> 00:38:05,079 think this is probably one that most people remember. It's it's the most recent 533 00:38:06,039 --> 00:38:08,960 they've faced him two years in a row. So I think we'll probably see 534 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,519 some stuff on the Jazz and I think it's you know, it's starting to 535 00:38:12,559 --> 00:38:15,960 focus in a little bit more on that last Dance season ninety seven ninety eight. 536 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:19,159 I think the focus is going to be even tighter on that last season 537 00:38:19,199 --> 00:38:22,199 here in the last couple episodes. Yeah, they'll probably spend ninety six ninety 538 00:38:22,199 --> 00:38:29,039 seven on episode nine, and then while cutting back to the ninety seven ninety 539 00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:30,400 eight season like they've done all along, and then maybe the final episode will 540 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:34,760 be purely about that. There anything else you want to see, because I 541 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,960 have a laundry list of things that I still want to see. Yeah, 542 00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,000 you mentioned some of them before we started recording, and I kept thinking, 543 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,440 oh, yeah, yeah, that would be interesting, So let's let's dive 544 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,719 into your list. Well, one thing I'd like to see more about his 545 00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:50,880 family. I know we just dealt with the murder of his father, but 546 00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:54,679 like how he was as a husband and a father, I think that would 547 00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,840 continue the humanization of Michael Jordan. And I'm not saying that that needs to 548 00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:01,840 be the goal of this documentary, but they've covered so many different aspects and 549 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:07,159 I think they've gone back in time more than people probably assumed, and so 550 00:39:07,199 --> 00:39:12,639 it feels like that should be fair game. And I know he's once divorced, 551 00:39:13,119 --> 00:39:15,039 so I don't know if that has something to do with it, but 552 00:39:15,119 --> 00:39:22,159 that I would like to see more about how he juggled being a father and 553 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,320 husband throughout all this, because he's talking about how much he doesn't really like 554 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:28,960 his life at points and I'm just like, well, were you're having a 555 00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:32,639 good time, like with your kids and your family? Yeah, that would 556 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,800 that's going to be really interesting to see if they delve into that. And 557 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,840 I think one criticism that a lot of people have had of the documentary, 558 00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,719 and it's probably fair, is it's, you know, very slanted to be 559 00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,719 pro Jordan. It sounds like he had a decent amount of control over you 560 00:39:49,719 --> 00:39:52,239 know, you know, I don't know if he had the official final cut 561 00:39:52,239 --> 00:39:55,480 on anything, but it seems like his voice was involved in some way. 562 00:39:55,559 --> 00:39:59,960 So maybe you're right, Maybe if there is some family dynamic that he doesn't 563 00:40:00,079 --> 00:40:02,480 want explored in front of millions and millions of people. They probably aren't going 564 00:40:02,559 --> 00:40:07,960 to do it because obviously it's not worth it for the filmmakers to can the 565 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:13,480 whole project if they can't do ten minutes on his divorce or his family life. 566 00:40:13,519 --> 00:40:15,599 But I agree with you, it would be very, very interesting to 567 00:40:15,639 --> 00:40:19,679 see. And I think the final point you made there is really interesting I 568 00:40:19,679 --> 00:40:24,480 hadn't thought of is he does talk a lot about how difficulties life was and 569 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:28,239 how he'd been dragged down by basketball, and be interesting if he could, 570 00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:30,360 you know, if his family was sort of a boon to him at any 571 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:36,679 of these points. Another thing I'd like to see is, let's be brutally 572 00:40:36,679 --> 00:40:40,000 honest and have a discussion about how many titles did Michael Jordan and the Bulls 573 00:40:40,079 --> 00:40:45,679 organization leave on the table because of his hiatus in or was that ninety three 574 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:49,920 ninety four and then most of ninety four ninety five, and then because they 575 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:52,960 dissolved the team right before that lockout truncated season. I'd like there to be 576 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:57,280 you know, it'd be like sort of a look ahead, but like we've 577 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,559 we've journeyed so far back into the past that I think that should also be 578 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,599 fair game. As well, and I don't think there's been enough of a 579 00:41:04,639 --> 00:41:07,880 conversation about that. And you can also tie it into wall if he had 580 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,719 stayed, do they like, does the team never actually win those final three 581 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,239 titles because you can't think yeah, because you can easily assume that they would 582 00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:20,920 just win eight in a row. But that's just the fatigue associated with that. 583 00:41:21,079 --> 00:41:23,920 Was he just always destined to try to retire on top. And then 584 00:41:24,519 --> 00:41:28,400 this is also related to that. And it was actually you that mentioned it, 585 00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:32,119 Like, let's talk about him then coming back to play for the Wizards. 586 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,679 Let's get into that a little bit. Maybe that's a separate documentary and 587 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,039 I'm going too far into the future, but those are another two things that 588 00:41:38,039 --> 00:41:42,960 I would like to see covered as well. And you mentioned the Charlotte Hornets 589 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,119 too, Could we mention them at least? Yeah, I mean at some 590 00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:51,800 point you would think they could get into his post playing career. Man, 591 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,559 maybe maybe they will be some of that at some point. I think that's 592 00:41:54,599 --> 00:42:01,360 all fascinating. You know, we we've seen a lot of dynasties or you 593 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:05,800 know, close to dynasties over the course of the time that we've covered the 594 00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,639 NBA closely. And there's a lot of them. When they first formed, 595 00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:13,440 you think they're gonna win five or six titles. Didn't happen with the Heat, 596 00:42:13,519 --> 00:42:16,159 didn't happen with the Warriors, you know, two teams that were set 597 00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,599 up to run the table for a while. And you're right. I think 598 00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:22,599 that's a fascinating point that if Jordan and the whole team had stayed together in 599 00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:27,119 ninety three ninety four, do they go on to win three more? You 600 00:42:27,159 --> 00:42:30,239 know, by the time he comes, by the time they have another championship 601 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,239 winning team in ninety five ninety six, a lot of the pieces are different 602 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:37,440 than those first three title teams. Scottie Pippen was the only remaining member right 603 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:39,800 aside from Jordan, obviously, Yeah, I think you're right. So it's 604 00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:45,320 it's essentially a completely different team other than the top two. So that's that's 605 00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:51,679 interesting. If they had let's say he doesn't walk away ninety ninety four, 606 00:42:51,760 --> 00:42:53,440 and it plays all of ninety four ninety five and then goes a couple of 607 00:42:53,480 --> 00:43:00,079 years after ninety eight, it really is interesting to think about how many he 608 00:43:00,639 --> 00:43:04,239 could have gotten to because there's already so much mistique around. You know, 609 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,199 he's six and zero in the finals. Does anyone knock him off if they 610 00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:13,079 become a little bit apathetic at some point? You know, if he never 611 00:43:13,159 --> 00:43:16,280 leaves, that does that change his lore at all? I think it probably 612 00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:21,119 does. At the same time, what if he did win eight or nine 613 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,840 and then you say, well, he's got eight or nine championships in the 614 00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:28,079 nineties compared to you know, Bill Russell's eleven in the much smaller league. 615 00:43:30,679 --> 00:43:32,760 I don't. I don't know if there's any way to make his profile any 616 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:37,239 greater than it is, but you know, eight or nine championships probably would 617 00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:39,239 have done it. I would say he left and the Bulls left at least 618 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:45,039 one on the table, because maybe maybe they stall out before they and they 619 00:43:45,039 --> 00:43:47,679 don't win like those three consecutive ones that they actually did win, and perhaps 620 00:43:47,679 --> 00:43:51,760 they win in ninety three, ninety four or something like that. But I 621 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:53,880 think you could also argue that they stayed together. Like there's maybe the potential 622 00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:55,880 that the reboot last just as long. So like, what if they just 623 00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,159 stall out. Let's say they win four in a row, like they win 624 00:43:59,639 --> 00:44:01,599 ninety ninety four, but then they still stall out ninety four ninety five. 625 00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,599 If he's still playing, maybe that lass kind of reinvigorates them and they, 626 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,039 you know, go on to win three more anyway, because that was if 627 00:44:08,039 --> 00:44:12,639 they stayed together. So I would say one or two would probably be just 628 00:44:12,679 --> 00:44:17,239 my estimation. It's completely non scientific, but I do think. I don't 629 00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:21,199 think if he never leaves and if they keep the Bolts together longer, I 630 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:24,920 don't think we're looking at fewer obviously, or the same number of rings. 631 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:31,599 I think we're looking at Yeah. I wonder what the team could have looked 632 00:44:31,639 --> 00:44:36,800 like if it could have found some way to salvage things after ninety seven ninety 633 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,840 eight, Like what if they win that title? That last one in Jerry 634 00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:45,159 Krauss finally thinks, you know what, I might have been wrong about this. 635 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,920 Let's let's try this one more time. Like, I don't. It 636 00:44:47,039 --> 00:44:53,599 seems like the relationship with Pippin was maybe past saving at that point, So 637 00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,880 maybe you try to retool around Jordan, see what you can get for Pippin. 638 00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:00,480 I don't. But if he was a free agent, right, so 639 00:45:00,599 --> 00:45:04,880 maybe you can't gone, Yeah, I mean, and let's sign and trade. 640 00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,960 Obviously they could have they could. Yeah, what if George would be 641 00:45:07,039 --> 00:45:12,079 using free agency and goes to another team. Yeah, I guess that was 642 00:45:12,119 --> 00:45:17,639 on the table too. I don't know. I think I agree with you 643 00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,760 to go back to the original question, like how many more titles do they 644 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:28,800 win? I don't think it fizzles out and they just completely implode, kind 645 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:30,840 of like the Warriors did. But I think they probably get one or two 646 00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:35,480 more. I'm with you. That was So that was two more quick things 647 00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,039 I kind of want to see because weren't there points where Jordan was at least 648 00:45:37,079 --> 00:45:40,039 linked to other teams as he was going to be a free agent. I 649 00:45:40,079 --> 00:45:43,039 would have liked them, and I don't think they're gonna get into it. 650 00:45:43,039 --> 00:45:45,280 Would have gotten into that more at the time. Also, this is something 651 00:45:45,320 --> 00:45:47,880 that's really just coming to me. If he really hated fame that much, 652 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,599 had he just signed with a different team, Let's say this is ninety eight, 653 00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:54,559 could he have gone or just like small market whatever, Because if he 654 00:45:54,559 --> 00:45:58,960 seemed to generally hate fame that much, you know, people I've seen photo 655 00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:01,199 shops already of what if he went to the Knicks and Lakers. What if 656 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:06,639 he like just went to anyway like Milwaukee, it's like sort of close to 657 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,760 Chicago, Because if he seemed to hate fame, that much. Maybe he's 658 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:14,239 the superstar that could have broke that mold. I think fame was going to 659 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,039 follow him anywhere fair enough. I mean, Lebron was a mega star in 660 00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:21,559 Cleveland, so yeah, he could have gone to like Denver or Salt Lake, 661 00:46:21,599 --> 00:46:25,639 and probably the whole circus, the whole media circus would have followed him 662 00:46:25,679 --> 00:46:30,880 at that point. I mean he was to this day. I mean, 663 00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:37,039 look at look at the reaction of this documentary, Like his level of fame 664 00:46:37,159 --> 00:46:42,000 is still just out of this world. So yeah, I think I think 665 00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:45,840 the fame would have followed him, and this It is really fascinated to think 666 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:51,559 about what could have gone differently though, you know, widely considered by many 667 00:46:51,599 --> 00:46:54,360 people to be the greatest of all time, and he played, you know, 668 00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:59,280 fewer seasons than a lot of the other all time grades. He takes 669 00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:02,440 it one half year break in the in the prime of his career to go 670 00:47:02,519 --> 00:47:07,639 play baseball. He takes another break towards the end of his career before he 671 00:47:07,679 --> 00:47:09,440 comes back in places for the Wizards. He missed an entire season with a 672 00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:15,519 broken foot. There are a lot of interesting sort of turns in the road 673 00:47:16,199 --> 00:47:22,480 in Michael Jordan's career. But almost every time he gets going, you know, 674 00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,280 straight again and wins a bunch of championships. Obviously he couldn't do that 675 00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:34,880 for the Wizards, but it's it's just remarkable to me that So I'm rambling 676 00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:40,199 again, but this whole documentary, it's just been really really fascinating to be 677 00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:45,800 taken back to that era of basketball and to get more of an inside look 678 00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:50,719 of what really drove Jordan. I've just I've really really enjoyed this. You 679 00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,199 might have set the record for ums in those takeaways that you've ever said I 680 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:58,000 respected. The last thing that I would like to see and this is let's 681 00:47:58,079 --> 00:48:01,360 assort a little bit, but like, does he have any tightly knit relationships 682 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,239 from the any of these players that he played with? You know, our 683 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:08,559 Scottie Scottie Pippen and Jordan talked about each other in glowing terms, but are 684 00:48:08,599 --> 00:48:13,679 they And same with Dennis Ronin and same with Phil Jackson, but like time 685 00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,159 together. Yeah, and maybe could we get into Michael Jordan's like super Pettit 686 00:48:16,199 --> 00:48:20,320 Hall of Fame speech a little bit? Maybe too, I'd love to address 687 00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:23,039 that these might be separate documentaries. We need to talk about Jordan as a 688 00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:28,599 as an executive and team governor, and also just his Hall of Fame speech, 689 00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:30,880 and then maybe just he might not sign on for that one. He 690 00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:32,079 doesn't need to, I think at this point, you know, we got 691 00:48:32,119 --> 00:48:36,880 the Michael Jordan propaganda, now we can get the anti Jordan cases. Maybe 692 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:42,480 Lebron's people can produce it. So what if that's Lebron's documentary. Lebrons would 693 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,480 come out with a documentary with his career. It's gonna be Michael Jordan's post 694 00:48:45,559 --> 00:48:49,760 playing career, and it's just how nice Lebron was to teammates behind the scenes. 695 00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,079 Yeah, yeah, so yeah, those would be things I'd like to 696 00:48:52,079 --> 00:48:54,800 see. The Hall of Fame speech wishful thinking, but maybe they could get 697 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:58,840 into you know, if they're looking, it does seem like they're looking to 698 00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:00,880 humanize him a little bit, and I do believe that they've done that to 699 00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:05,679 some extent. But talking a little bit about what's happened, not just with 700 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:08,559 his family, his immediate family, you know what type of father he was 701 00:49:08,639 --> 00:49:14,159 during all this, but maybe did he forge any lasting relationships that he's still 702 00:49:14,199 --> 00:49:17,920 close that former teammates consider him a close friend today, because again they talk 703 00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,599 about him with reverence, But there's just nothing really mentioned about. You know, 704 00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:23,840 this isn't supposed to be a post playing career thing, but how many 705 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,159 stories have you read about his just ties to friends? Anyway? From all 706 00:49:29,159 --> 00:49:30,960 this, I feel like that sort of maybe he's kept that under wraps because 707 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,199 apparently him and Kobe were very close, and so I'm not saying he owes 708 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:37,599 it to us, but that would be intriguing to see. And that's probably 709 00:49:37,639 --> 00:49:40,320 something else you could argue would be nice to get more of a whiff of. 710 00:49:40,320 --> 00:49:45,840 It's just it does seem like there was a deeper seated relationship between he 711 00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,000 and Kobe that we only really we got a feel for him when he gave 712 00:49:49,079 --> 00:49:53,199 a speech at Kobe's tribute and then they touched on it briefly here. It 713 00:49:53,199 --> 00:49:57,639 would be interesting to go more into that. But of course they didn't think 714 00:49:57,679 --> 00:50:00,800 that they were going to be dealing with Kobe Bryant post mis lead during all 715 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:07,960 this. Yeah, yeah, another tragedy for sure. Another Now I'm gonna 716 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,760 probably drop like five more on you. I always wonder too, like when 717 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:15,719 I'm in front of a judge, how many times am I saying in a 718 00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:19,960 hearing or a trial? But that's just me I wanted to fill you in 719 00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:22,639 on one thing before we wrap up. Unless you have any other takes on 720 00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:27,039 episodes seven and eight of The Last Dance, No, I'm just I'm just 721 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:30,400 lamenting that there's not going to be episodes like nineteen and twenty. I know 722 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:34,679 that I needs. I'm with you. I think this could go on for 723 00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,880 a long time, and maybe maybe it will, maybe there will be a 724 00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:42,119 follow up documentary. As you're saying so, halfway through the nineteen ninety eight 725 00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:49,639 Major League Baseball season, Mark McGuire had thirty seven home run Sammy Sosa had 726 00:50:49,639 --> 00:50:52,199 thirty three, Ken Griffey Junior had thirty one, and it was definitely a 727 00:50:52,199 --> 00:50:54,719 three man race. Had to have been talking about him, yeah, and 728 00:50:54,760 --> 00:50:58,360 he was already a superstar at that point. He hit fifty six the year 729 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,960 before too, So I promise that was related because that's the summer of ninety 730 00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:07,119 eight, same year that Jordan wins his last championship against the Utah Jazz. 731 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,639 If you want to talk to us about The Last Dance, you know that 732 00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:15,320 we are active and interactive on Twitter. You can find Dan at Dan fa 733 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,480 Valley fav a l E. I'm at Andrew D. Bailey The show is 734 00:51:19,519 --> 00:51:23,760 at Hardwood Knox. The podcast network is at Blue Wire Pods. As always, 735 00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,760 we encourage you to rate, review and subscribe to the show. If 736 00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:31,199 you've already done that, make sure you tell your friends and family to subscribe 737 00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:34,880 and do some rating as well. They will thank you for it down the 738 00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:37,599 road, I promise. And until next time, we leave you with the 739 00:51:37,599 --> 00:51:45,599 shout out to Kyle Anderson, Benna Udri and bj Armstrong, Sugar Ray, 740 00:51:45,679 --> 00:51:51,280 Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends 741 00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,480 whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history, relive 742 00:51:55,519 --> 00:52:00,199 their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four 743 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:04,559 part series premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime