Weird thing happened in the weird Weird Wow. Welcome everybody to Bledso said,
so we have an exciting guest with us tonight, Cliff um And just a
brief introductory for how we met. About a year ago. Before we really
started doing like the Patreon discord space um I was craving some sort of interaction
with people, so I would regularly hop in Twitter spaces. I was doing
it about once a week, and Cliff was um U, an individual who
was hopping in multiple of them, and I began to notice his user name
and I began to chat with him going on, you know, weeks,
and I really appreciated his insights and just could tell that he really knew his
stuff as far as Enochian and astrology was concerned. And I just felt like,
man, I really liked this guy. And then, Cliff, if
you remember, you offered to do an astrology reading for me, which I
very happily accepted, and we had a zoom call a week or two after
that for you to like get all the information and compile it into like a
concise reading. We spent an hour on a private zoom call and honestly,
it blew my mind it's it's one of the very best astrology readings I've ever
had. So we're coming in with a blank slate tonight. We've never covered
pretty much the majority of this material. We're going to cover everybody. Welcome,
Cliff, everybody much introduction. I really appreciate it. Yeah. So,
um, so let's let's just get into it because it's it's a big
I mean, you're you're the expert. So we're gonna be talking Enochian,
Um, maybe a little bit of Edward Kelly, John d some very fascinating
pieces of esoteric history that I in the back of my mind knew that I
wanted to cover someday. But I think, you know, tonight, with
Cliff being on with us, it's just like the perfect opportunity to ball out.
Yeah yeah, so okay, So where to begin. Let's at least
define what Enokian is. Enokian is, because I'm super dumb. I don't
know what it is. I'm sorry, I was telling him before before we
started. I've been thinking about this for days because I don't know much about
this. We haven't covered it on the show. I'm so excited, so
yes, please inform my silly, dumb little brain. Well, you're great.
It's great. So Enokian refers to multiple things at once, So I'm
going to try to like give you the multiple layers of it. So at
it's broadest, it's kind of like this magical mystical system, right that basically
is in the Christian tradition. So we're literally talking Christian magic here, which
is gonna like blow some people's minds, like how can you have both these
things? How can you have Christian and magic at the same time. Yeah,
it is, and the story of it is wild, and we'll get
into that later. But so that's one piece. It also refers to the
language of Uno Kian, which John d and Edward Kelly received during their their
sessions, and we'll get into that in a little bit. But it also
refers to an alphabet which is used to spell out that language. So it's
kind of got those three things. And if any of you are a fan
of like Supernatural, they actually featured that language in the in the show,
and part of me is wondering, like, hmm, I wonder if they
took up this energized mystical language. And that's why that show was like one
of the longest it's the longest running. It was the longest running horror genre
show ever. So you may yeah, you may not know this, but
so Ryan actually put me onto Supernatural way back in the day, and like
the first few seasons, the first like five seasons, five six seasons,
as I watched, loved it all, and I just now off at some
point is it it's so the Inokian stuff. Did I miss it or did
it? Does it come in later? It comes you might have missed it.
So it's a castile is with this angel that comes in and he actually
sometimes occasionally will actually speaking Okian or at one point as a joke, they
make him singing okin but you don't actually see him singing it and all that.
But it's um so yeah. So, so I guess a good place
to start is sort of like the history and who John D was and who
Edward Kelly was and all of that. So John D is what is sort
of we would call nowadays a polymath, a guy who's like really smart about
everything like any given subject. At the time, that's kind of who and
what he was. And he was an advisor to Queen Elizabeth the first and
he actually wound up picking the date of her coronation or the time of her
coronation using astrology. So we've got this guy who's already like pretty influential,
and then he gets found out that he's doing that. And you can imagine
in sixteenth century England where kind of the church rained supreme Oh, nati nati,
we're gonna go ahead and imprison you right now. So he keeps on
getting in trouble for all of his varied interests that the church may or may
not approve of. But he's kind of this advisory figure. He's very important
when it comes to like navigation, and he's very good at mathematics and optics.
And you have to bear in mind like mathematics itself is practically like the
pseudo magical thing. That's at the time they didn't have yeah exactly, and
they didn't really it wasn't looked on as like a normal like a normal academic
discipline. That sort of thing is like this is you're doing weird stuff with
numbers, and I don't trust you, you know that sort of It was
like literally that superstitious. So given the state of affairs in England at that
time, he kind of gets in trouble over and over again, because he's
so smart, he's looking at so many different things. But he's and I'll
try to give a quick background as to why he got into these angelic conversations.
We'll just go chronologically, just give like an overview. So he goes
from this into from this advice. He stays as an advisor to the queen
for what for pretty much his whole life, even into the reign of her
successor, James. But he at some point he gets into these angelic conversations,
right, so he's like, I need to talk to angels, and
he uses this squire whose name is Edward Kelly. But at first he uses
an assumed name. That's always a good sign of somebody's character. He uses
an assumed name of Edward Talbot, right, and this guy is a squire.
So really quickly what a squire is. It's basically a guy if you
think of like that classic stereotype of somebody looking into a little ball and getting
yeing this vision in that and actually was this idea and Ryan, of course
he'll be happy to hear this. He actually looked through an actual crystal and
these visions in the crystal, and so that was his technique he would do
that. He was sort of like what we call nowadays a psychic, and
so he hires this guy because Edward, because John d isn't that great of
a squire himself. He's actually not very good. So he hires him,
and then all of a sudden bang, it's like they get connected in to
this immense energy of angelic power and this massive, hyper complicated system that at
in some ways is sort of like an evolution of previous magical stuff going on
at that time, like gramoires and stuff like that, but really introducing this
massive like mathematics and astrology. It's this imagine like this this you know,
twelve dimensional Rubik's cube that has to get down all noted, one small piece
at a time through this poor guy looking through a crystal ball or through a
crystal, yes, exactly, through a crystal and then probably having high strains.
So that is sort of like how it originated, right, and you
fast forward to twenty twenty three and we got crystal poker balls. Yes,
yes, they'd be like what that's like, that's crazy, that's witchcraft,
you know, Yes, So that's kind of the story of of like what
enoking is and how it kind of got started at kind of like a surface
level. But the interesting subhistory, so you all are probably familiar with,
like the Nagamati scrolls, these buried scrolls that are discovered after centuries. The
interesting thing is those that they get discovered, those Nagamati scrolls, but some
of them are lost because somebody starts using them as kindling what so exactly right,
So, but there's a parallel here because John D's um, you know,
work some of his diaries. He burns some of it, okay,
just on his own. He buries other parts of it, and that part
gets discovered, gets put in like this hidden drawer, and then it gets
discovered like you know, decades later and you know, maybe even like over
a century later, and he and what's the first thing that happens. The
servant takes it and starts using it as pythons, you know, you know,
paper on the bottom of the python to keep it. So like some
of this stuff gets lost, and it's just like this weird like almost like
Okay, God is saying, I'm going to keep this, but I'm going
to make sure you know that some of this is lost. If you do
to you're not you know, teaching everybody, treating everybody equals, so they
could maybe recognize that this is important. So it's been sort of recovered over
the over the last especially the last thirty years especially, there has been a
good job of recovering as much of it as we can. So the very
mind blowing thing to me is like, we're talking what you say, he's
fifteen hundreds, right, he was allowed? Okay, so we're talking about
an individual or two individuals and the fifteen hundreds who had access to knowledge that
we don't have at present time to develop hyper advanced entity contact. I want
to know what they had access to. Yeah. Yeah, And there's a
real question about why that is. And the best explanation I've heard, I'll
give ahead and give a shout out to Kate burtas she explained that kind of
what was going on astrologically was this thing known as septiles. So just a
real quick idea is that if you take the three hundred and sixty degrees of
the path that the Sun takes an you know the Earth, you know,
apparent path of the Sun around the Earth, and you devoided that by seven
there were that there was that configuration of planets in the sky like by you
know, sevenths of three hundred and sixty degrees. That is that sort of
was very active at that time and is going to happen again. Speaking to
the to the younger generations here is going to happen again in the twenty seventies.
So I'm very curious about Manyokian two dato here or may not happen exactly
right, So feature vegetables, Yeah, I'll probably be just to make sure
I'm following. Then. The Enochian is the practice of communing with like angels.
Yeah, absolutely, so you can do. Yeah, you got a
couple of there are different parts of the system, and we can go over
that, you know, at whenever you want. But that it's core.
It's basically, UM, I'm gonna build a bunch of stuff that's gonna help
what Jason Louve calls, who shout out Jason Louve, who helped teach me
some of this, um, you know, build this furniture and use it
to help sort of insulate this very raw electric power of the angels and it
will help like keep you from getting zapped. Almost make this call in this
angelic language and then talk with the angels ask them for stuff. They'll probably
laugh at you if you're asking for buried treasure and stuff like that, because
that's always happening. But they'll give you they'll give you a ton of wisdom.
So that's and then that's it. It's at it's it's basically only two
or three steps, but you just have to do a lot of overhead of
stuff in advance, like groundwork, like you know, foundational expressions and things
like that. By the way, I don't know if you remember this,
Nick, but Jason Louve is the guest on episode five of The Midnight Gospel.
Yes right, yes, yes, yes, So he's a very he's
a prolific magician. Is he the No, he's not the French guy I'm
thinking about. I'm thinking about somebody else. But um, I do remember
who you're talking about from Midnight Gospel. Wow, that is so wild.
The bird that like guides into reincarnation. Yeah. So they use like specific
they like fung shui furniture so they can talk to anil. Yeah basically,
yeah, exactly. I mean literally, I'm not I'm not showing it to
you. I can like show you bits and pieces, but literally your you
all are this computer is sitting on top of the holy table of practice right
now? That's cool. Yeah, So it's like, you know, literally
you're using it to sort of get your your It's it's hard to explain.
I'm not sure why this is. You know, a lot of other magicians,
a lot of magical practices are more about like, well, we don't
need all this stuff. Why do you have making I'll build all this stuff.
And I'm not sure why except other than to say, are you too
proud to do this stuff? Are you? Are you gonna like put yourself
higher than what God is saying? I think that's kind of like some of
the rationale for it. So that's kind of like, just just do what
you're supposed to do. So I have a question for you, And this
is more so for the listener or for the audience. Like when I think
of questions, you know, as far as the show is concerned, I
like to think of what could um like shine an alternative light to that person
out there who might be judgmental towards this kind of topic, you see what
I'm saying. So, like for somebody out there who's like this is weird,
you know, the word magic, ah, how would you how would
you simplify the reality of magic to someone who has no clue what we're talking
about. Sure, so the reality of magic, I mean there are a
lot of different definitions. I mean, I try to take up pretty light
whatever we typically call magical, you know, beautiful sunsets, up that sort
of thing. We're kind of getting into this space where, you know,
it's sort of like it's like this reality you know, if you if you're
already positing the existence of God, and we can talk about the atheists later,
because I feel like there's a pretty good mathematical proof of you know,
kin and all of that, but if you're talking if you have any sort
of belief in the existence of God, one of the things that God has
asked us to do is literally to pray to him, right, and then
he's asking us to seek wisdom. Well, there's also sort of like that
old joke about you know, if you know, I ask you for you
know, for this and that and the other thing, and God sent you
a life raft, and God sent you, you know, all these different
ways to escape your peril, and you didn't take advantage of them. So
one of these things He's given us is like history, and I would say
magic is one of those things too. Now. I usually I try to
use magic mainly to help people. There are different people who will like take
it in different directions, but that's kind of at its core, is like,
the world is kind of messed up. We can do stuff to fix
it. God has given us these tools just as much as he's given us
on any other technology. Why not try it out and see if this is
going to help you out. The other side to it is that I think
that if you take very much a narrow view of whatever the person in the
pulpit says, or whatever the person on TV says, or this and that
and the other thing, you will always be limited by their view and you're
literally giving up your own agency to have contact with the divine. So those
are sort of my rationales as far as why I do magic. You may
it may not be for you, But I would also say, don't be
judgmental with people who do it anymore than I'm not jugmental of people who don't.
Yeah, right, it's like that, you know, you don't usually
hear about Like you said, you don't usually hear about Christianity and magic in
the same sentence, but it's that's why it's so important, you know,
with so many things in this subject, the subject of the phenomenon and you
know, the spirit, it's it's so important to keep an open mind.
I love the idea that just like uh, you know, just like science
and spirituality go hand in hand, It's like spirituality, Christianity, christ and
and magic can go hand in hand too. That is just so cool.
Yeah, I definitely think, like I think, people get way too imprisoned
in UM language, you know, like these self imposed mental prisons. People
take definitions of words at a subconscious level way too seriously. And you know
that's that's definitely beneficial for people to kind of navigate language from a different point
of view. And like I think, you know, growing up as a
very strict Christian, I'm sure Nick can relate to this UM Hearing the word
magic is you know, there's two reactions there. The reaction number one is,
you know, Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings. You know,
it's fiction, it's cool, whoa shoot a fireball? And then the other
reaction is this is evil, it's demonic, you know, keep it away
from me, or if you're my parents, it's Harry Potter is evil because
it's magic, and you're not. All right, Yeah, so those two
those two me. But you know, it's like keep it away from me.
You know, magic is real, but it's evil, you know what
I mean? So like, I like, I liked you your answer there,
but let me let me reform that question because I think that was a
great description. But what I really meant to ask was and your understanding why
is magic real? Okay? So I mean expect I guess experience is the
key of your results. So one of the things I would say, just
I would I can say this about you Okin in particular, is that using
it, I have found that I have found a very deepening of much a
process that really deepens my relationship with my heart. So I think, yeah,
and I think part of what Ekian can do, you know, if
you're you know, I'm not going to say it's for everybody, but what
it can do is it sort of like strips away these nonsense narratives that we
tell ourselves because we're armoring our heart against being hurt or against you know,
things being too scary for us. And that's sort of what I've come to
understand is that going through the process of there's a part of the Eunochian system
called the athers. We can talk about that later if you want. Where
you're Yeah, so like the ethers are just really briefly, it's this idea
of it can be thought of in a lot of different ways, but one
of them is like these subdivisions between Earth and Heaven, right, And there
are different ways to approach it. Some people say you should start at the
top and then come down. Other people sort of take more about, well,
let's build it up like Jacob's ladder and go one at a time.
I took the ladder approach, and I found that what that does is it
sort of forces you to like confront stuff that you're just holding onto, and
the angels are like right in there, they're telling you this is another you
gotta let go of this, and blah blah blah blah. And there's sort
of like one at a time lifting up a veil from your eyes until finally
you get to the top and you actually experience union with the divine and that
is like this crazy mystical experience where like in the first time I did it,
I saw like this bank of clouds in the vision. So this all
envision. So I saw a bank of clouds below me, a bank of
clouds above me, and in the center a silver sphere, and the clouds
had these flashing rainbow lights in them, in both of those, in both
the banks of clouds. And then it comes up. The sphere comes up
to me, and it's God and he is you know, I can feel
as I'm doing this, like this this high almost coming on, you know,
not as if you know, don't do drugs, kids, blah blah
blah, but you can feel this yeah, yeah, yeah exactly, and
you know, boom, there's this like, you know, this big voice,
and I've recorded all this stuff, you know, but he's got this
big voice, this big message, and it's all about love. It's very
getting, a very core message of love that isn't just limited to one thing.
It's like this very universal love. So I don't see anything wrong with
that, right, And I can actually see yeah, and I can see
if you experience that that viscerally, then all of a sudden, Okay,
I can't deny this experience one and too, I'm going to have to like
re orient my entire approach to life. Doesn't mean I need to throw it
all away, but I need to make some changes here at home. Yeah,
so what it sounds like to me is in completely different terminology. Sure,
you're you're describing a spiritual system that has genuinely helped you strip down the
ego. Absolutely, Yes, that's that's a perfect way of describing it.
Yeah, I mean that's that's that's really fascinating. Yeah. And it's at
will. Yeah, it's at will. You know it would that would only
took me eleven minutes, so you know, that was it and that was
over, and I was just like, wow, you get to the end
of the roller coaster ride and then that's it. So but yeah, I
that's that's sort of my approach. So I usually recommend people start with like
the ethers that are lower, like kind of closer to Earth, so it's
not too oooh, you know, just getting a decent start, you know.
Um, it's gentler that way. Yeah. You don't want to break
through to the highest level and see like giant green, formless blobs or something.
Well even if yeah, well even if you do start going at that
highest level, you'll see something. It'll just be like kind of blocked off.
It won't be it will be completely there because you're not ready to be
there yet. Well yeah, or like you can get like a hint of
something, but it's like how much can you describe that universal love before you
if you haven't stripped all this stuff, you get something, right, but
it won't it won't be it'll the signal to noise ratio won't be that.
That sounds like descriptions I've heard of mushroom experiences. Yeah, like from people
around me who have had experiences that are like I saw something and there was
a door but it was locked and I couldn't go through, yeah, or
something like that, or there's an entity shaking his fingers like you're not ready
yet. You know. It sounds very similar. Yeah, exactly exactly,
so I think, and this isn't I know. I started pretty hardcore at
the end of twenty eighteen, but I had actually started in twenty fourteen,
and I got through like ten of the eight ers, and then it clamped
up and I knew it did, and I needed to like take a break,
like four years of a break, you know, four and a half
years a break. But then I started back up and then I managed to
get through all of them. So you know, you got to face certain
things. How did you how did you, um like, stumble upon emoc
how did you or you know Enoki? And how did you discover it in
the first place? Yeah, so um, like you both, I've been
raised, you know, in a conservative, fundamentalist Christian household. Jesus is
coming back, the world's ending, all of that, and um, it
was something that I rebelled against when I, you know, turned that magic
age of eighteen. It can be on my own. So I started exploring
all things magic. And there was this Um there still is this great place
in Minneapolis, in a place called dinky Town in Minneapolis known as Dinkytown,
right. I think it's changed his name a little bit. It's Megas something
or other, but it's still in Minneapolis, and it's by. It was
run by and I think he still affiliated with this guy named Roger, Roger
Williamson, and he was a really nice guy from the kay. I always
wished me have a wild evening, you know, that sort of thing,
you know, every time. It's really nice. But I remember just reading
absolutely every kind of magical text. They took more of that Western tradition because
you know, that's where we all kind of start as like what do we
do this, you know, and our system and isn't really as continuous like
it is in the East, so we have to like have a lot of
people figure stuff out, write a book about it, explain kind of like
the basics all of that, sell an ebook exactly. And Pinocchian kept coming
up as like this is a really powerful system. You better watch out for
this. Alista Crowley used it, by the way he did. Yeah,
he was. He was part of the people one of the later generations who
you know, took the material he had and felt like the Golden Dawn wasn't
giving him everything he needed, and he actually took his own trip through the
ethers and he the later ethers they were kind of locking up on him as
well. So do the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn Usinokian They well,
yes, so that the original order died out, but it's sort of had
revivals that have like come back. But yeah, so they use that and
that was actually some of the mysteries they had for people who would like complete
this task of you know, get obtaining knowledge, full knowledge and conversation of
the Holy Guardian Angel. They would teach them some of this, but it
wasn't like as full of a system as we have now. We've just keep
on discovering other documents so that other people have you know, shared and stuff
like that. So it's it's been something that over time we've managed to reconstruct
a decent idea from John D's diaries of what it was like and what it
was supposed to be about. Honestly, I feel like I need to say
this for those out there who are listening. Alisha Crowley's a buzzword, very
depraved, sick individual. Yeah, but it needs to be understood that like
Alisha Crowley didn't create this material, and just because he tried, it doesn't
mean that the material itself is you know, danned or cursed. And like
the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn is a very fascinating group. I don't
know much about them. I have seen some material Freemason and and a Rosicrucian
this one guy, but that both orders you can double dip in. Some
of these orders had sent me some slides from like a Hermetic Order of the
Golden Dawn presentation that I wasn't He was like, don't share this. You
know, I have a friend who's like really high up in the Golden Dawn,
and it was all about angels. It was all about like lesser banishing
of the Pentagram ritual, which is like praying to angels in certain cardinal directions,
you know, trying to commune with Raphael, Michael Gabriel, etcetera.
Et It's very angel focused. It's very like Christian type, you know,
themes and um, I think Golden Dawn is like a pretty fascinating order because
from what I understand, like what you're describing, they were focused on trying
to use these magical practices just to enhance life and like reach higher states.
Yeah, it wasn't a lot of the funny business, and that's why they
kicked Allaster Crowley out from what I Yeah, Curley he had an especially troubled
relationship with Christianity. His parents were also fundamentalist, but he was not treated
well, you know, and you can imagine like the times such as they
were, you know that he you know, it was even worse back then,
Let's put it that way, if you were in the wrong. And
so he the thing about Curly is so he he gets h inherits a lot
of money and he so he can sort of live this lifestyle where he's searching
all these spiritual things from across around the globe. But he's he's very you
have to sort of contend with him because he's in this mix. Well,
we're all trying to, like the Western or Western magical tradition, is trying
to like fit it stuff together, and he has all these contacts and he's
trying to they're all trying to figure stuff out, and he's sort of like
a central figure. He's also brilliant. But yeah, like you said,
he also has I would not recommend. Yeah, that's the thing about Yeah,
like Crowley. Crowley he was he I mean, he really liked the
stuff that he published. Alone is enough, like in modern times to cancel
a person like he's, Oh, yeah, I don't, I don't,
I don't. Not a part of me recommends Crawley. He's he's he's a
very depraved individual. But you know, the more you study, the more
you realize that you can see the history of someone being drawn to these different
practices. He truly didn't develop virtually anything, you know, Yeah, I
mean it's I wouldn't I wouldn't quite say that. I would say that he
probably he took it in a direction. Let's put it this way, that
especially towards his later life, it was very more lily questionable. His earliers
in middle life weren't quite as bad. Um depending on which parts you get
to. Um, but suffice it to say, the guy was the guy
was very smart. He had a very good way of like explaining a lot
of stuff. But you know, I guess that's what I mean. You
can and he did inspire, you know, certain ideas and certain ideals that
were probably needed at that time, like you know, following your will instead
of just like always looking to the rule book, like what do I want
to do with my life? That sort of thing. Um. So you
know, I think most people, if you, if you really read them,
really understand him. It's like you gotta have some mixed feelings about him,
but overall, given I'm more on this side, other people were like
this, yeah, extreme extreme discernment. But like I guess, to put
it into words, it's like like he is an individual who has single handedly
tainted many practices, but like that's the crazy thing, that's the unfortunate thing.
Like some of the stuff, and I don't say, oh, but
some of the stuff he was saying was true because of his affiliation with certain
practices like goldened on and he's got he's gathering information from this order. He's
gathering information from this order, and then he goes and runs his mouth and
he makes all of it look bad. I personally think he was a psyop
kind of individual. He was British Ami six. My conspiracy brain thinks he
was planted in there or he was published out in the you know the world
or whatever to create the satanic panic kind of Alisha Crowley six six six.
Don't get into the occult a tool, you know, Like I don't like
Crowley at all. Yeah, I mean, I guess we could talk a
lot about him, but I mean what I would say is like he's um.
He was probably like a decent in some ways. He definitely was a
spy, you know, during World War One. He really he literally was.
He literally was. Yeah, and I think he but I think he
also was this sort of person who you know, there's sort of like levels
of intelligence, and I think after in between the wars, I think he
was sort of like, Okay, this guy's got some kind of weird charisma,
so we might be able to use it. So even if he's not
actively an agent. I think he was, you know, I mean he
was in the mix, let's put it that way. Yeah, yeah,
I don't I don't think he was. I mean a lot of what I
mean, most of what Curley was doing at the time was based on limited
Enochian information anyway, So that's sort of like the thing, the way to
sort of wrap up his involved and yeah, tangent aside, I just want
to impress upon people. He experimented with Einoki and that's all I know to
that extent. He did not create it, he did not develop it.
It has nothing to do with him. He had, you know, he
had a little bit to do with it. Cliff, do you like horror
films? Not as much, but I've seen some. So what do you
got There's a movie. I'll have to find the name of it. I
remember the events of the movie very vividly, I just can't think of the
title. And it's about a magician who so this like this woman. I
think she loses her child in like a accident or something. I can't remember.
It's been a few years since i've seen it, but I know she
lost her child and she's desperate she's you know, grieving, so she seeks
out a magician and they do. I can't remember the name of the ritual.
It's actually a very popular Crowley ritual like Abramelan or something like that.
But the movie like shows and Death, you know, the workings of the
ritual and it's it's it's a really cool movie. I have to find the
name for. Yeah. Well, yeah, the abramelin it's actually something that
I did do and that's actually they probably like twisted like what it actually is.
It's basically the ritual to yeah, to get your Holy Guardian Angel and
to get Yeah, yeah that that happens in the movie. Yeah, exactly.
So yeah, and ten out of ten recommend that definitely getting that you
don't need to use Well that's well, are you sure? Yeah, well
the simple way. Yeah, it's just a movie, you know, that's
it. It's not like it's not like a month long like isolation all this
stuff. I mean, there are parts of it that could be depending on
how like the way I did it. Okay, this is like a weird
tangent, but like the way I did it is I followed like other people
who had like talked about their experience so basically you're supposed to like pray at
least three times a day, and while how you're going to do that?
So like literally at lunch, I would go out to my car in the
parking lot and pray and do this and that, that and the other thing.
But I would try to do that and over and over and over again.
You know, you're basically trying to make yourself a decent target for your
Holy Guardian Angel. Like, Okay, is this person really taking it seriously
or is he just gonna, like, you know, you know, just
give up after a little while. So, like the easiest way to do
that, Nick, if you are interested, it's just literally you don't need
to do it three times a day. And then there's a whole this all
this other stuff with Abramelin. But you just literally pray each night, God
please send me my Holy Guardian Angel in full knowledge and conversation you know so,
and you'll know it's it works if you can do it at will and
talk about the movie made it look way harder because it's a horror movie.
Yeah, look, there are a lot of steps that you can add in.
It's sort of like you want to turn up the juice on this,
I can do it. That's a whole other conversation. It's it's I don't
know, I've I've been I've been particularly fascinated lately with like, um,
the Guardian spirit Guardian Angel thing, and also like spirit guides and that kind
of stuff. Uh. And and my curiosity is because as far as spirit
GUIDs go, the way I understand it at least is that, um,
it's kind of one of those things where they're assigned to you if you can
say it like that, or like before you're even born, or at the
moment that your shred of consciousness is kind of manifest into this world. So
is to your knowledge, is the Guardian Angel concept similar to that. Yeah,
I would say that's probably It's probably something along those lines. I think
that. Um, what I would say is, I mean I'm not you
know, I didn't go to divinity school yet, but I'm thinking it's something
I thought about actually. Um, but I would say that there's there's one
out there that you can definitely at least one out there that you can get
in contact with. But the Holy Guardian Angel is particular. And actually did
the astrology on that and it was like almost very complimentary to my own chart.
I have a lot of fire and earth. This one had more air
and water in it, and you add it all together. It was like
this perfect balance. Um. I did the chart of like when it actually
appeared, and like that was that was a whole other thing where you could
like feel it. Come on, you're in this like weird trance state.
But but yeah, it was, yeah, it was. It was.
It was wild. That was that was quite a trip. So you know
war stories, I guess right then you have you have communicated then with your
own holy guardian angel. Yeah, yeah, like so you can you can
do it at any time once you're successful with this ritual. Um. Basically
it's got it's got to like a lot of overhead. Right. So the
idea is partly that you can use this. Originally this idea is like okay,
this will this thing will protect you and all that, but you can
also use it in case you encounter any like negative entities out there. Boom,
you know you're in your place because this is an angel of God,
so you can't don't mess with me. You can also use it as like
this idea of an intermediary if you're going to speak with any other higher angel.
Let's say this is the one you go to, and they're like sort
of dialing it up. Yeah, a little bit like a wingman, right,
I got you. I like that. But also yeah, but also
also it's sort of like um, it's it's also a bit of like a
coach, a bit like a like a friend, a bit like you know,
just a whole blend of other of a lot of different things that's trying
to get you say, Okay, you need to get on this this thing,
or watch out for this thing, or here's some wisdom or here's this
other thing. I actually went straight from from that Holy Guardian Angel process,
and I just knew, okay, I needed to keep going. And you
know, I was like, I'm going to do anoka and Hj's like,
great, you know that's what you you know, that's what you should be
doing. And you know I've been doing it ever since pretty much. How
would you describe ribe the actual like message receiving part, if that makes sense?
Right, So, the the way I experienced the Holy Guardian Angel when
he first arrived, he arrived in like this black if you have you ever
seen like galactus almost like this, Yeah, he looked like that, except
it was like it's sort of like that. It was like black. He
was dressed a lot in black, but he had like this golden triangle at
the at the center. And I'm not making this up, by the way,
you know, I know I've read the book and all that, but
yeah, yeah, it's it was just like that. And if you if
you listen to him, it's like his voice is like an octave lower.
You know, he's like, you know, boot blah blah blah and so
um, very authoritative, interestingly a lot more aloof than I thought he was
gonna be at first. Um, maybe to you know, maybe because you
know, I'm I'm overly agreeable, so he's like I'm gonna like split the
difference here and just be like, okay, do this. You know.
So I don't know, but he's he's got stuff to say, and he
guides me. And there's a whole other thing. Like I saw his sigil
in the silver, just like the ritual says. So it was just it
works, you know what do you mean by that? So you can actually,
Um, there's this part of the ritual where at the end when you
sort of like achievement unlocked in a video game. You know there's this part
where you can tell it's happening. You're supposed to like have some silver next
to you, right, so I had like the material silver, silver,
right, like in what form physical solid? Yeah? My wife? Yeah,
Yeah, it's it's like the Tree two one thousand. Okay, but
you're supposed you know, you're supposed to like achievements unlocked, and then you
know you're supposed to look in it and like you can see a little piece
here it's got this is a different one, but you know, I looked
in it and I could see if you've ever seen like um, like a
flash light or you know flash photography when in a completely dark room and you
get that afterburn on your retinas, Yeah, it was like I could see
his sigil in the silver like that. Okay, that's and that's it's it's
one of those rare times where it's like boom, like there's that actual,
you know, visual that's like beyond just like a lot of this stuff takes
place in the maginal, but that one, it was just like wow,
I can actually like see this, see this Okay, So okay, I
have a I have a weird uh maybe completely unrelated follow up question, how
could that happen? We're only talking about angels, dude. That that really
that really kind of blew my mind for a second, because, um,
the thing you're talking about with the the afterburn, you can almost see something
like an afterburn. Yeah, no, I mean I saw it. It
wasn't afterburn. It was like it was literally in the silver, just like
that. It was like, that's how I see. Ever since I was
a kid, I see stuff like that. Sometimes I see stuff like it
just happens in my eyes. It's like I'm just seeing and usually it's it's
it's it sounds weird, but it's like vague geometric shapes, like really vague,
and sometimes they move, but it's always at the center of my vision.
It literally happened today and it hasn't happened to me in quite a long
time. So that's just seems really synchronistic. Yeah, whatever the word is.
I found that. You know, if you're writing synchronicity waves and stuff
like that, a lot of times what will happen is you'll get like this
energetic presence coming into your life. So like literally here I am and then
all of a sudden that that part of you like work starts back up.
If you're want to work with those, my recommendation is write them down,
write down, make a drawing of what you see, and you may get
a sense and intuition what have you that that can be used for something.
So you know, like like this is like a sigil of an angel or
sigil of you know whatever. You know, like so yeah, that's the
specific memories that I have with it. And this is just I can't even
believe I remember this because I was probably eleven or twelve, but my friend
Jesse Smith was overshot out Jesse Smith. You know him Ryan, right,
you know I didn't know him that well, but everyone knew him. Yeah,
yeah, great guy. He's a great guy. Um yeah, I
remember he was at my house one time and we were playing you know,
we're just kids, like making up stupid games. So he's like, close
your eyes and I'm gonna move and you have to like tell me where I
am or whatever. So I did it, and I swear to you do
this is gonna sound woo woo. That thing that that after burned thing followed
him. It followed him when my eyes were closed, and every single time
I would point and he would be exactly where I was pointing, and he
I even remember him saying, how are you doing at That was maybe maybe
the first time I can remember that thing happening. And it's so like random,
few and far between when it does happen, and usually it doesn't really
correlate to anything. But my mind is kind of blown right now that we're
talking about this, to be honest, Yeah, I honestly I've never heard
of anything like that, like the imprinting in the silver, and like,
I think it's cool that it is silver because just like the alchemical you know,
relationship there and that's that's super cool. Um. I was going to
ask, is is Enokian safe? Like? And when I say safe,
let me let me finish the question so you fully know what I mean.
When I say safe, I mean for the thinker out there who might be
opening their mind to things but still are a little on the scared side.
Safe in the sense that nothing darker evil could penetrate through you see what I'm
saying. Yeah, So, um, if you're worried about that, the
first thing I would say is be a good person, lived good life and
be a little humble for God and all of that, Right, you know,
and maybe meditate a little bit. But you know, it's sort of
that phrase, you know, by by their fruits, you shall know them.
You know. Well, if you're not producing good fruit, then why
do you expect anything, you you know, something good to grow off this
vine. But I would say that, um, it's it's high octane.
I would say it's in the top three of octane things I've done magically,
and it's way it's very it's also very like, very well integrated. Let's
put it that way in terms of all aspects. It's a sound system,
it's very well developed. Yeah, I mean there's yeah, I would say
that's that's exactly right, especially in later years since we've done a good job
of like recon when I say we like the you know, Kane community.
Yeah, sure, history of people working on this exactly. What I would
say is, um, the easiest, the safest way in terms of like
you wouldn't just play with gasoline in your front yard and unless you want to
be a part of a future meme, um, you know, is to
actually, you know, start with something very simple, like I start with
one of these things. So we've talked about the Enochian language at the beginning.
So a lot of what's come what was delivered was a whole lot of
like do this. Then the other thing. Here are the descriptions of what
the angels are. But then the way to like make contact with certain certain
angels and certain parts of the system is you need to make these calls in
Enokian, which is basically a long almost like a psalm, but it's in
the Unochian language. And make the one I would I suggest to most people
who are just getting interested in this sort of thing is make the call to
this very low close to earth ether called texts. Ironically I live in Texas,
but make this Yeah, I know, right, but make the call
to texts. And it's very it's usually just like okay, you know,
I'm seeing like this vision but it's not too bad. And there's like certain
markers to know that you know that most that is common across other people.
That's sort of like one piece of evidence that okay, this is like a
real thing, because how would these two different people who have no like relationships
start seeing similar things? But that would be sort of like the the easiest
entry point. And that's what I offer people from time to time whenever halftime,
I'll like say, hey, you want to like get on this,
you know three you know, this starts this weekend, and I'll do it
every three weeks just for free, just you know, read off the call
to people, explain, give like a very shorter spiel of what you know
kan is and then just do that. And you know, people seem to
like it. And I haven't had any problems. I'm wondering. I don't
know if it's because I've built the furniture and they're getting like that nice insulation
that leads out over the internet or something like that, but I haven't had
people had problems like that, So I think just because we kind of keep
it, keep it with the training wheels on that sort of thing, and
not putting a rocket on the back of our you know, skateboards. So
it's all been positive for you. Nothing, nothing, nothing. If you
have to confront your own ego, that's never right, right, but you
know that, and you know you just gotta let go a little bit and
you know, grow up a little bit. And that's yeah, that's one
of the things that's done. It's really um helped mature me me. I
would say, UM, way faster than normal life. But um, doesn't
mean I'm perfect, doesn't mean that I don't have a lot of ways to
go. Sure, that's true. But you know, I would say that,
I would say that in that sense Ryan, it is. It is
safe if you are doing it and with somebody who's kind of a little knowledgeable
here and there, and I take emails through my website, you know,
Ken dot Today, and I answer every one of them more or less,
you know. Yeah, So just you know, if you got a question
about something, just reach out. You're a resident magician to them, Yeah,
reach out, you're so consulting magician. Yes, yeah. So so
you said, um, top three, Um, what what was the word
you used? Uh, don't so we know it's in your top three.
So it's that Oki and one or the other two. I would say that
the Bournless ritual, which is a ritual out of the Greek magical papyri,
it's basically it's very yes exactly or resident. Yeah, it's very that is
very. It was something that I mixed in a little bit when I was
doing Abermellen, just to you know, I was learning as I went when
I did that ritual. Um. But so that was one of them.
And the other one is this sort of forerunner to kind of this semi obscure
system. I actually know the original founder, the guy who wrote the book
is not the actual guy who's the founder. Um if you if you look
for an on Amazon, but it's known as ui Zelian Magic. And that's
like a whole other thing that's sort of like coming out. Yeah, it's
come. Yeah, it's because it's brand new and I sort of helped fit
in a small way bring it forward. But it's basically comes out of like
this, um, not an actual book of Moses, but it's sort of
got that name apply to it, known as the sixth and seven Books of
Moses. So yeah, yeah, but that one, that one was pretty
powerful, cool too, but it wasn't ask another it wasn't for me.
Sure I can I ask another kind of dumb question, is Inochian in any
way related to Enoch from the Bible? That's a very good question, and
the answers yes in the sense, so what the angels said is they come
down. There's a kind of like this history. If you're interested in looking
up justin Sledge's work on John on the Enochian language, as well as his
hieroglyphic monad. But what basically the angels told John d is that, look,
you know, this is like this angelic, this language that was spoken
by Adam and even the Garden of Eden, and it would the last person
to speak it was Enoch, and then they sort of have like this mythical
tale of how that then turned into Hebrew. Probably not true from a linguistic
point of view, but from a metaphorical point of view. You know,
you think about a holy language, well, Hebrew is definitely one of those,
um, Hebrew, Latin, Greek, and then of course now Enokian,
which is sort of interesting. It's got you know, it's it seems
to be a language with basically like a lot of irregular forms. I'm not,
you know, really a linguist per se, but I think that people
who who really study it and really look into it, it's hard to make
an argument that this is not a language in and of itself. There's a
lot of precise math behind the language too. We haven't touched that at all,
Like oh, yeah, the one fifty three table and how it relates
to like the Vesica pisces and and um. It's there's a lot of crazy
I mean, we we've really been like pretty surface level. Yeah, can
scratch the surface. There's I'm I'm asking these questions like I don't know what
any of this means. I mean, I've never practiced Enokian, but I've
I've spent quite a bit of time studying it, and I'm it's mind blowing.
I think it would take someone like Cliff spending years and years and years,
day in day out devoting themselves to this to truly understanding it. And
you've kind of really just stimulated my imagination there for a second, like,
are they or whoever the progenitors of Enochian are, you know, aside from
John d and Edgar Kelly. But the whole system is the claim here that
this is, so to speak, like the Atlantean language that was spoken in
the spiritual realms. So that wasn't something that that Dan Kelly got. I'm
gonna like sort of take a step back and sort of talk about a little
bit how Enochian is almost like you take this hyper intelligent guy, juice him
up with a lot of divine energy, and it's like through that energetic current
almost, it's like you can actually like his was one of the few minds
that could actually start working with this. He wasn't perfect by any means,
but I would say that other people who have taken this have gone in different
directions. Right, My main thing is I'm trying to like see if I
can get more downloads from the Angels, see if they have anything more that
they want to show me, you know, and they're you know, if
that's if you know I'm worthy or whatever the case may be, or if
I'm if I'm chosen. That's a probably better way of putting it. But
other people who have taken it, they've gone like there's this guy named Daniel
erection are E K s h N, and he takes it through this like
intergalactic kind of way, but everybody's sort of taking their own different take on
it, Like he's taking an aliens intergalactic being sort of thing. I'm taking
it more. I'm just sort of taking the system as it is. But
there are different models that you can use to understand it. And that's why
when other people, you know, people like Crowley or Leavey or taking hold
of it, they immediately want to change it into something that you know,
I'm rebellious in that and sort of thing. But it's like it's like any
other tool. It can what it gets used for depends entirely on the person
using it. So, um, so you could use it for that,
But I wouldn't say that they necessarily said that's what it was, right.
It's just it's like knowing the history of Esoterica and all the literature and the
secret societies and how they've like woven in and out of history, it sounds
to me like the Anochian system is claiming. You just said that this is
the claim that Adam and Eve spoke this language. The angel said that to
him. Yeah, okay, so the angels said that to him. So
if this is true, then just through knowing you know, the secret societies
and the information that they're guarding, then this would probably be the Atlantean language.
I mean, I know we're taking two systems here. That's okay,
let's let's let's dive into a little bit. You know we're stretching here.
Yeah, well so there's It's it's interesting how there are these different claims to
authority, right, Like what makes something? How do you know something's real
and valid? Well, it's got to go back thousands of years otherwise you
know it's not part of this hidden lost with but you see what I just
said, it's if it's there must be this old wisdom thing. And yet
if we we also don't want to like get away from this idea that we're
progressing, like we're getting better. So which is it? Are we getting
worse? Are we getting better? You know? And we It's funny how
we never really exactly right reality. We can do we can do both right,
yes, climate change, but we got the Internet about it. You
go to the gym on a Tuesday, you bench press, your body is
sore as hell, You're getting stronger. Yeah, it's that simple. Or
you may you may not do that and then not get as strong and then
wonder what's happening and blah blah blah. So there's there's this push and pull.
But like when Christianity first was on the scene, the Romans said,
what's up with his new religion? You ever see like the Book of Mormon,
there's that line, let's go back to biblical times eighteen twenty three.
You know that sort of idea You haven't you know? Yeah, But I
mean I'm just saying, like that line is like, oh, Biblical times,
like you know, two hundred years ago or something like that because biblical
times. Yeah, yeah, that's funny. So the whole idea is like,
um, the Romans were like kind of like, you know, saying
Christianity shouldn't be worth it anything because it's not ancient. Well now it is,
you see what I mean. So like there's this there's this idea of
like we want to idealize the past is the past, but there's stuff that
people are doing that clearly is interesting, right, and that stuff tends to
survive. But then we tend to think, well, all of it must
have been good when it really wasn't. I guess. More so, what
I'm getting at is like in esoterics, I'm a big wisdom tradition guy,
you know what I mean. I understand magic is real, and my understanding
of it is this, because of what is the truth. We are all
a divine spark of the original consciousness. So when you come in here and
you set your intention on some you know goal, you can manifest it.
You can do it through ENOCHI, and you can do it through this,
you can do it through that. I think they all work to an extent,
you know what I'm saying, yeah, but what these systems claim is
that there is a sort of twilight lane uage, Like in the ancient past,
before we were purely physically incarnated beings, there was an original holy language
that was and like in the Bible you had the story at the Tower of
Babel, right, supposedly all spoke one language and then boom, the whole
world is split up into languages, different languages to confuse us. Yeah,
I know that when my dad was in the presence of the lady and these
light beings led him to them, they sang in a language that he couldn't
understand it was. He said, it was heavenly. So i'm i'm I'm
hip to the idea that this is possible, that this that there is some
sort of language that we presently don't understand, that has some sort of vibration
that could, you know, make wonderful things happen. I'm curious, like,
is it is it Enochian? So I would say, I would argue
that there are probably languages that do that. And I would say, like
if the one of the predecessors too, like people who like, well,
you knowin that's the angelic language. Well, it turns out Hildegard of Bingen.
She is a saint who you know, had angelic words that interestingly none
of them are you know, you can't compare and contrast because there wasn't really
a whole lot of overlap between those two languages, between d Zinochian and then
hild the Guard of Bingen's linguic not a the unknown language. But I think
that there are languages that are filled with power, and even going back to
like ancient Greece, they would like yeah, even like Latin, but like
in ancient Greece, they would have like um barbarous words that somehow or like
these long words and you find them in that the Bornless ritual that I mentioned,
where they're just these long words and you vibrate them like that and then
all of a sudden it's like you hear this stuff. Yeah, I was
inquired. I like, hey, let's go. But um, I would
say, I would say, there's a couple of things. So like,
on the one hand, there's like this practical if I do this, am
I having this experience and you can get that with a with I'm at this
point now where I can get it like with English words. If I just
vibrate it correctly. But on the other hand, yes, there are certain
languages, you know, gain especially that have like that extra special sauce to
stay absolutely oh absolutely yeah. But it's it's interesting that a lot of I
almost wonder if the reason why John D sort of like got selected by the
angels is that he was interested. And I won't take up too much time,
but I'll like, I'm on the edge of my seat here quick so
very interesting, so like really quickly right, So Nick, you got your
hand on the cat, right, But we got this idea of the word
cat, right, but we could call it anything. That's the idea of
this nominalist language, right, But imagine this idea of like speaking words into
existence. It's sort of like that idea of not just the cat of not
just like I am I'm going to say the word, but there is some
the map is the territory. That's this idea of real realism, okay,
son omalism versus realism. John D was very influenced by this idea. And
if you think about it, the words that I speak, if I say
to you peace, all of a sudden, it changes your entire central nervous
system. Compared to if I say any other word. But the funny thing
about that is is that that's proven in psychology too. By the way,
yes, I felt that when you said it. Scientifically, I didn't do
anything special that word, you know, you know it's like But the thing
is is like if you if you um take that idea, you realize that
that's just an extension of as above, so below. And also the other
half to that phrase is as below so above. So you can see why
d this idea of magic. It's like there's this isomorphism like the same you
know, God has create, created us in his image, so we sort
of have, like you said, Ryan, this spark of divinity that all
of a sudden is oh, okay, I have like this, I have
this responsibility as a divine being to make things right and better for the world.
So that's kind of like that's a mind blowing thing. So at to
sort of know that that I'm telling you, Cliff, You've had me on
the edge of my seat and in an hour is not enough for this.
And I have so many more questions I have Yeah, no, go for
it, go go, I have one more question. Sure, um dang,
I hide myself up so much oh, okay, is there are there?
Are there phrases an enokid, I'm not talking someone like, I'm not
talking about diving into like the ritualistic aspect of things. Are there simple Enochian
phrases that could be used as affirmations to raise your vibration? Is that a
thing? Sure? Yeah? I mean the one I recommend is monans,
which means hearts like you sort of feel that and it's like helped it if
you were if you do that, you know you can and then just do
it, you know. I notice that that that two first two words of
that our own backwards, you know, kind of interesting. Yeah, that's
what I was about to say. First impression of this is it's the same
exact concept as like what the Eastern you know, Tibetan and and booted Uh
traditions are doing with the vibration of vowels to open chakraates. It's it's all
the it's it's all the same thing. And real quick, I'm actually a
dual you know, Kian Buddhist practitioner. Okay, so cool? Yeah,
what's God? That's so sick? How can you be both? How can
you be Christian? Magic? How can be Christian. Yeah, no,
I like that. We Jeremy bloed, so yeah, I want what I
want. Yeah, we gotta do another one because because wow, okay,
yeah no, actually I actually just looked at the clock for the first time
five minutes ago, and I cannot believe it's been an hour. Here's here's
the thing we say, like almost every time we have a guest, like,
dude, you gotta come back on. I'm gonna put Ryan and Alex
on the spot here for a second. Can we and Cliff you know I
you know you two, you're on the spot too, You're in the hot
seat. Can we get this on the schedule like a sap for a part
two? Because we know I'm for real, well I know you really,
I feel like we just like barely scratch the surface and I'm literally sitting here
like I can tell you this is this is what guys, Episode ninety four,
this is this is the quiet Nick has ever been on an episode.
And I know that's how I know. That's because I know that I need.
I'm not even kidding. I'm gonna be texting y'all every single day,
like, is Cliff on the schedule? Like I make Part two? I
feel like I feel like a fan right now, like I need part two
right now, whenever you want, whenever you want, you know, I'm
okay, I'll make room. This is I knew really early on talking with
Ryan. Okay, I'm gonna be there's gonna be a part. I'm gonna
be playing some kind of part in this small I feel bad because I asked
you like a year ago, and that's just how life goes. And I'm
so sorry. You are so humble right now. Ryan is probably one of
the busiest people I know. I'm not, like you know, I'm not
in his life, but I just know dude has got to be same busy.
So I am. But like still, I mean, I hope,
I hope. I hope there's no hard feelings over that. It's really all.
There's so much going on and like this, this was an amazing episode.
I'm glad it took so long because exactly how it played out now,
it wouldn't have been the same. Yeah. Then, you know, by
the way, it's my birthday tomorrow, so you guys just made it.
Oh my god, birthday, thank you, thank you. It was it
was so much fun. This was like tomorrow President. I could have gotten
from y'all. So tomorrow is April twenty six. By the time this comes
out, it's gonna be mayor June, because as you know, we are
front loaded, absolutely happy. We're gonna travel through time. Here as a
today's date, Happy early birthday, and then for the omies win this airs
you give him a happy late birthday. Cliff, please tag whatever it is
you want people to find. Okay, yeah, real quick, So,
um, my website is Enokian dot today little little probably you know, arrogon
to me to name it that because there are a lot of other people but
now I bring a lot of other people in so and the for astrology go
to your lightbridge dot com and just try to find the email. I haven't
updated that because I'm also like more busy than I let on. But I
really appreciate you you having me. I've really it was a real honor and
a lot of fun. So thank you so much. It was a blast
time. I'm kidding, I'm not kidding. I'm gonna be upset with Ryan
and Alex if this doesn't get on the schedule very soon for part two because
I need more now. That was so good, dude. I couldn't even
say anything because I just wanted to listen. That was incredible, Cliff,
thank you so much for coming. Thank you. Likewise, we're gonna make
it happen again, Cliff, great, thank you too. That was so
awesome. All right, I wish yeah, you know what to say,
right, ye, all right, thank you guys. Weird things happened in
the backyard and what so house send I got so weird kind of close your
to my heir stages straight up like spiraling on the inside of it. No
one knows. Wow and shine Happy