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Hello, and welcome to Open Minds
Radio. This is your host Alejandro Rojas,

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and Jason is out this week.
But even better than Jason, I

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have with me Maureen Elsberry. Hello, Maureene, Hi, thanks for having

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me on. Well, Jason in
the City of Sin yep, he's out

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sinning it out sin in his little
heart away. So we have an awesome

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guest today too, because it's me, oh man that always gonna let out

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the secret. That's right. Our
guest is also Maureen because we don't get

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to hear from her a lot on
the radio program, so we'll talk to

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her. She of course does spacing
out for Open Minds and she's covered some

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really interesting stories in our magazine and
elsewhere, so we'll talk all about that.

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So this is gonna be a lot
of fun. I'm excited. How

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about you? Oh me too?
All right, Well, first let's talk

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about our favorite stories of the week. And you started off all right,

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Well, this is kind of a
ridiculous story, but it made a lot

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of headlines. Is this guy in
China hoaxed? He said that he had

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encountered a ufa along a river and
there were five aliens, one of which

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was electrocuted by a fence and he
captured it and put it in his freezer.

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So he released these pictures and it's
the most ludicrous looking alien you've ever

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seen. I don't know how anybody
sort of fell for it or what he

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thought the goal was, but he
had good intentions at heart. He said

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that he is a fan of UFOs
and aliens and wanted more people to believe

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that aliens exist. And I think
he kind of went about that the wrong

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way. He's showing a fake alien. However, so the government then got

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involved with ale Hundra and arrested him
for hoaxing. And they said, yeah,

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so he had to go to jail
for five days for fabricating lives and

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disrupting normal behavior. So I don't
know, it's it's been all over the

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place, and he's still makes news
headlines. Even Simon Peg, who did

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the movie Paul, said he felt
a little bit responsible because, uh,

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the man said that he was inspired
by Paul. Yeah, and how about

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like that hoaxed picture of the alien
standing by the river. It's so it's

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this glowing UFO with all these glowing
little aliens, and he has his bike

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underneath the UFO and it looks like
a cartoon. I mean, I don't

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know what he was trying to do, but need so awful. Yeah,

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become a little more skilled if he's
you know, gonna Obviously we don't promote

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hoaxing at all, but oh,
I don't know this, this was ridiculous.

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What's funny is is it went so
quick and he fessed up so quickly.

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I mean, he didn't hold out
very long that you never got to

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see how much people believed it,
if there were any people out there to

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believe it. And I kind of
feel that even though this picture and the

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alien are so terrible, there probably
would have been some people to believe it.

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Oh yeah, you know, Unfortunately, some people don't research into things

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and believe things that face value,
even if they are extremely, extremely ludicrous.

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Yeah. What's funny too, is
ITM said that when he created the

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hoax and everything, that he uh, he called the police way back then,

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which was three months ago. So
I guess he did this three months

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ago and the police kind of ignored
him and they didn't come and talk to

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him and throw him in jail until
the whole thing went viral. Yeah,

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then they have to look like they're
gonna do something about it, responsibility,

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maybe discouraging people from doing the same. Yeah, well, what do you

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got for me? Well, I
wanted to talk about the alien's genitals too.

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Oh okay, sorry, I was
gonna leave that part out because that

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is so weird. I don't know
what the heck he was stragg to do

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there, but that is that was
a pretty weird thing too. I don't

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I haven't seen that being reported in
the news. Is strange in the comments

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commented on it, and you know, I encourage everyone to go look at

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the photos. We have all of
them on our website because it's just it's

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almost it's it's funny. I mean, it's funny that this guy thought that

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you could pass this off as an
extra trust real bean. Yeah awful.

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So my story is and this is
kind of fun because of course, and

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we'll talk about this when we get
into spacing out. Of course, we

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do do a lot of kind of
debunking stories, but at least we're pretty

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skeptical. But it's just that,
you know, most of the time media

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covers UFO stories, they're bunk.
They're they're silly stories like the Chinese one

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or or others where it's fairly obvious
what it is, or prosaic answers come

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to light. But this, I
think is a really important sighting that was

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reported last week that unfortunately has been
made fun of a little bit. Both

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of these stories we're talking about were
released by the Sun, and even though

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the Sun reports UFOs a lot,
they always put in some kind of silly

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spin. This was an important siding
that was reported by pilots, several pilots,

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and it was released in a report
by an organization in the UK that

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analyze is near misses like near collisions
of aircraft in the sky. And unfortunately

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the Sun was the first report on
this, and they threw in this Scientology

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thing that it was over the Scientology
headquarters. It's actually a few miles away

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where these sightings occurred. It is
I guess the nearest airport to the Scientology

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headquarters, so that people go into
the headquarterst fly into this airport. But

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really there's no tie in with Scientology. The Sun threw that in there to

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be silly, And of course scientific
has this whole mythology or alleged mythology,

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of being connected with aliens because a
few people who have left Scientology have said

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you know, I got to the
upper levels where I got the secret information

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and then they told me that this
is all about aliens, and so I

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got pissed and left. It's what
a few of them have said, and

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they released the files. Well,
the whole time, Scientology has denied any

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link with aliens and denied these files. And so they actually got their lawyer

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to call the Sun and tried to
sue them, and the Sun had to

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apologize, but they did it in
a funny way. They apologized not to

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the Scientology. They apologized to the
aliens for linking them to Scientology. So

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they should apologize to everybody for doing
that, because they've painted this what is

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really a cool sighting. Three different
sets of pilots on three different aircraft reported

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seeing these flying discs, silver flying
discs flying around when they were coming in

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for a landing in the West Sussex
area in England. It's called the Gatwick

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Airport. So they all talked about
this. They all called in because they're

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coming into their approaches at the airport
and they call in and say, hey,

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we've got this weird thing going on, this weird silver thing, can

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I still land? It was caught
on radar. Six objects were on radar

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for a second and then they disappeared. So there's radar, there's all of

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these these sightings. Nick Pope chimed
in on this, and he did say

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that none of the theories of possible
balloons or toys or model airplanes seem to

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fit, and that he thinks this
is really interesting and it demonstrates what he's

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been saying the whole time is that
UFOs do show some sort of danger to

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airspace because if we have these unknown
things flying around, what if we have

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more near misses like what happened in
this instant. So it's a great story.

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It's one of the most credible that's
come along in a long time.

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Essentially, this board that evaluates near
missus eventually had to say, even though

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we think it might be a toy
or something, we really don't know what

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it is. So they had to
report it in their final analysis as an

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unknown. Yeah, and I think
this is a really great sighting. And

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again, some of my favorites are
pilots that are coming forward identifying things,

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and again you have evidence they showed
up on the radar. But the fact

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of the matter is is they are
very familiar with airspace and what should be

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or should not be flying around and
yeah, it's too bad that it was

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clouded by the media, but that's
no surprise there, and hopefully this gets

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a little more attention. It seems
like it was talked about briefly one day

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and then faded away and haven't heard
too much more about it yet. Yeah,

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great case. And what's interesting This
one happened in late December, but

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the report just come out, came
out the other day, so that's why

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it made news. However, last
week we reported on not just that sighting,

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but there was one in Ireland,
a video that's pretty interesting. There

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was a photograph in Scotland, and
then two near London. One of those

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we just posted today. So a
lot of sightings out there in that area.

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Yeah, yeah, it's you know, I feel like London or the

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UK area always has a lot,
very heavy amount of activity and sightings and

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you know, maybe people are just
reporting it more over there, but who

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knows. I mean, it's been
an interesting year so far for sightings.

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And we should say cheers to our
Irish and Scottish and English listeners because we

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have quite a few. They're awesome
of course, and we love pubs.

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The latest UFO setting was at a
pub, so it just makes me kind

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of crave a beer. Actually.
See. Yeah, a lot of great

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stories from that area, really interesting
stuff. So that is the news.

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Let's get into interviewing this interesting young
woman named Maureen Ellsberry. And maybe that's

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the first topic that I will touch
on. I had, you know,

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Ryan Sprague on recently, and I'll
ask you the same because you're in your

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twenties. I won't go into detail
of your exact age because you know,

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I know how women don't always like
that. But getting younger people involved,

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I think we've we've been doing pretty
good at that with open minds more so

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than a lot of the field.
What do you think it takes. What

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do you think is different about the
younger people. Well, you know,

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I'm not afraid to say my age. I'm twenty nine. Oh my gosh,

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I know, last year of the
twenties here, But you know,

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and I think what's really important is
engaging different types of media. And with

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the advent of social media that people
have been able to share more and you

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have to make it interesting, you
know. And I think that once people

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start seeing that, there is a
lot of credible information out there and it

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is presented in a way that's easily
digestible for them. Well, then they

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get more interested, and then they
start, you know, branching out from

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the more fringe and reading books and
starting to do real research. And you

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know, I think that that you
just have to keep with the trends,

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so to speak, in the way
you present your information. And that's a

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big part of trying to get younger
people involved. And unfortunately, you know,

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people we have a stereotypical laziness in
the generations that you know, video

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games and they're hiding behind TV and
all of this, that it's hard to

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reach out to them. But once
you get I'm hooked. I think that's

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the key is getting more people involved. Videos. YouTube's helping a lot,

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you know, just staying on top
of the media. Now, I mostly

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look at all of these facts and
figures when it comes to politics and stuff

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like that, but I look at
the differences in the generations, and one

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of the differences with the younger generations
is that they're a little more cynical.

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Do you think that when that applies
to this field as far as because you

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you're a pretty social person too,
You're out there with lots of have lots

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of friends and meeting lots of people, that this whole distrust of the government

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is kind of ingrained in the younger
generations. Well, I think that's that's

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probably partially true, especially lately,
that people are are more sensitive to not

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believing everything they hear and say.
But but I don't know, I think

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that that's existed forever as well,
So I'm not sure that that's the biggest

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factor right now. Mm hmm.
Well what about the idea of government conspiracies

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then, do you think with the
younger groups it's kind of that's kind of

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a given a little bit. I
think that it's it's more of they think

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that something's happening. The government's not
telling us everything, uh, and so

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there is somewhat of a cover up. But I think that a lot of

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people believe that there's more of a
cover up than actually is going on.

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Yeah, yeah, I definitely feel
that way. But what's interesting too,

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is, Uh, when I was
growing up, you know, even it

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was still kind of this idea of
moving towards the government may be stupid and

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they do everything wrong, but they're
they're too stupid essentially for these conspiracies and

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there's not necessarily these big conspiracies,
and it's kind of evolved in that.

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And I like John Alexander because he
says, how can you have it both

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ways? But they're not only stupid, but they're also involved in these conspiracies

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where they keep everything secret. So
it's kind of twofold where this mythos has

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come into Now. Yeah, well, and then you have I mean,

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just everything's a conspiracy these days.
You know that every tragedy that happens,

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then you know, goes viral that
people are are posting these conspiracy theories about

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you know, the Boston bombings and
the Aurora shootings and just everything and posting

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pictures and actors, and it takes
over for a lot of people. I

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think, I want to know what
you think about this too. I was

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reading in an article recently about lots
of the conspiracies and it talks about how

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when people feel powerless, they're more
likely to go the conspiracy route because or

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when they can't understand instance, let's
say the Boston bombings, where they just

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really can't comprehend how these two kids
would do that. So it's kind of

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the way the brain works where they're
looking for answers, so they just go

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conspiracy. Do you think a lot
of that happens with the younger groups where

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they can't understand this stuff that's possibily
always you know, it's hard and I

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really, honestly, being full time
in this field, it sort of takes

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over to the point where I try
to stay away from too much conspiracy theory.

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I mean, it's you can't avoid
it, but I don't let it

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take over my life personally. So
if you were to kind of answer that

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question, and you did so a
little bit before, but let's say if

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some of these organizations move on or
something like that, said, how do

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we get younger people involved? What
would be your answer? Oh? Well,

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like I said, but it's really
the answer is to change the way

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evolve, you know, change the
way you present the information to make it

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more digestible. And that's again,
like I said, a lot to do

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with very visual graphic media on it. You got to keep them engaged that

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way. That makes sense, and
I think that's one of the things and

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I think that's a message that people
have to get, is you have to

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change and evolve, and a lot
of these organizations don't want to change or

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evolve. Then you know, as
we get older, we don't want to

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do things different, and we say
no, the kids need to listen to

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us. But if you act that
way, then you're not going to get

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the youth. Yeah, and it's
hard to say too. I mean you

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have to make the events more interesting. Like a lot of people don't want

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to sit and listen to a conference
presentation for two hours, younger people,

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and so by presenting it in a
more interesting I think Ancient Aliens starting to

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get a lot more younger people interested
because it's a very visual show and presents

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a lot of information, but also
in a way that makes it engaging.

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But yeah, Alejandro, that is
the big mystery question that's been asked by

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everyone. How do you get the
younger people involved? And I mean,

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I think personally within open minds in
the UFO Congress is that we have started

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to see a lot more younger people
showing up to events and engaging and it's

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great. I hope it continues.
Yeah. Yeah, and we try to

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change or try a lot of different
things. And I think you know a

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lot of people are asking I think
they're not asking fully what they want.

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How do I not do anything different
but still get the younger people, and

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of course that's just not going to
work. All right. Well, let's

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get into some of the stories that
you've written about lately, and in particular,

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I'd like to hear about the Alley
Gash. I think that's such a

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great case. It really is,
and it was really interesting to do more

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research into this case. The Allied
Dash abductions happened in nineteen seventy six,

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and I should note that this is
just under a year after the Travis Walton

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case, and of course that received
a lot of widespread media attention, which

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is why some people were, you
know, a little confused about this case.

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So basically, these four men,
identical twins Jim and Jack Wiener,

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and their friends Charlie Fultz and Chuck
Rack went on a ten day canoe trip

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in the Aligash Wilderness, which is
in northern Maine. And the first,

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I think it was the first or
second day, they were at a campground

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with a bunch of other campers and
they spotted a strange light in the sky

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and they saw it sort of implode
in a sense, and they didn't really

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think anything of it, you know, just oh, that was strange,

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and they moved on. The Algash
Wilderness is very isolated, very remote.

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You have to be flown in there. There's not a lot of planes or

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traffic or people anywhere. So a
couple of days goes by and they are

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at a new campsite on a lake
and nobody's around. They hadn't caught enough

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fish that day, and fishing is
actually illegal at night, so they went

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out on the lake anyways, sneaky
guys, and they saw a light,

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the same light that they had seen
two days earlier. And this is really

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strange because one of the men sitting
in the canoe decided to take a flashlight

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in sos the UFO. I don't
know why. So they remember seeing the

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light come close, and the next
thing they know, they're standing on the

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shore and they see the light disappear. But they don't really remember anything how

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they got to the shore, what
happened. And they had had a huge

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bonfire and it was now Embers,
so they were like a significant portion of

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time was missing from their memories.
They continued on their trip and didn't think

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much of it. Now. It
wasn't until let's see, I believe it

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was Jim Wiener started having nightmares about
extraterrestrial beans in his room that he decided

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to seek help, and he approached
the abduction researcher Raymond Fowler, and Fowler

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almost passed on the case because he
was like, oh, you know,

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and I'm busy too much going on
until he found out that Jim was an

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identical twin. And so, you
know, a lot of abduction researchers promote

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the idea that because extraterrestrial species seemed
to be so interested in reproductive organs or

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aspects, that they're particularly interested in
the twin connections. And what happened after

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that was, you know, he
looked up on their backgrounds and everyone seemed

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to be reasonable. He didn't feel
that there was a reason for them to

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hoax anything. And he talked to
people who said that they do remember when

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they returned from the canoe trip,
them speaking about this mysterious event that occurred.

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And so they all underwent hypnosis regression
therapy, and they revealed a pattern.

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You know, they weren't talking to
each other about what happened in their

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sessions, and basically it came out
that they were taken aboard this ship.

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The beam overtook the Canoe took them
all up. They were subjected to experiments

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medical, they were basically sexually assaulted, had tissue samples, firm samples taken,

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and they all described these creatures with
big bug eyes, skinny and that

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they were all being told to do
things the telepathy. And it's really interesting

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because everything was so detailed. You
have four witnesses and they're all revealing similar

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things. Could they have been,
you know, led to believe that more

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happened than did Possibly, it's hard
to say, especially with regression, but

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they all took light detector tests and
they all passed. So the one thing

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you can say is is they definitely
firmly believe that something did happen to them.

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Skeptics will say that you know that
they had a motive because they were

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all artists and they then started selling
U a faux art, or you know

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that that they were led to believe
these things based on sci fi movies and

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or maybe they was elaborate hoax.
You know, Like I said, the

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Travis Walton case had just occurred,
had a lot of media tension, but

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it's really intriguing. I think there's
a lot of evidence there that something strange

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happened. And what a lot of
people don't talk about is that they all

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started having more experiences after this,
and it was uncovered that they probably had

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had experiences since childhood as well.
M M. Yeah. This is a

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fascinating case in that you have all
four of these people and like you said,

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I mean they reported similar things in
separate regressions, right right, and

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they were you know, asked very
specifically not to share anything that went on,

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to keep it so they don't contaminate
each other's testimony. But you don't

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have a lot of multiple abduction cases
that are this detailed and that you know,

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people have path light detector tests and
you have the transcripts or I recommend

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people read the Olgash Abduction book by
Follower because the transcripts are all in there

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and it's just such a detailed interesting
thing that would occur that it's kind of

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terrifying. And you know, I
abductions are a very a tough subject.

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You know, it's hard to swallow, so to speak, but you know,

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you can't deny seeing a pattern here
and in a lot of other abduction

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cases, and maybe something's going on, especially these early ones. And I

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love Ray Fowler because he worked on
a lot of these early cases. He's

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kind of like an unsung hero in
this field because he's not really out and

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about and doing lots of lectures or
stuff. But you look at his books.

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He did a lot of these early
cases. And I've also the other

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thing that fits with Travis Walton for
this one. I've met these guys,

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or at least most of them,
and just like Travis Walton, they're real

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salt of the earth, you know, regular guys, really neat just die

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your every average, everyday people.
These guys are actually pretty witty too,

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and that they're they're kind of jokesters, are funny guys. But yeah,

305
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this is another really interesting case and
and I mean it's an example and maybe

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you would agree that it's a standout
case in an arena where there's a lot

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of cases that are just more dubious, right, right, And that's a

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very nice way of putting it,
so to speak. And again with abduction

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research is you you really have to
look at all the different facts, keep

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an open mind, you know,
but you come across ones that are just

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you know, oh, I don't
know how to phrase this in a sense

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of you have to use your gut
instinct when you meet people too, And

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unfortunately, there's a lot of people
who, again, like you said,

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it's tobious that anything happened, or
they may be mistaking other experiences for abduction.

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So when it comes to that,
like when it comes to abduction,

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I mean, what is your feeling
about abduction? Well, you know,

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it's really that's like I said,
it's it's a really tough one for me.

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I try to keep an open mind, and I've really read some cases

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that have led me to believe that
maybe something is occurring. But it's also,

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like I said, it's so hard
to swallow sometimes that I always say

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that, you know, if somebody
tells me their abduction experience, that just

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because I don't understand it doesn't mean
that person's crazy or that it didn't happen.

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So I try to be objective and
listen and learn. And again i've

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it's it's strange that abduction was never
sort of a focus that I thought I

325
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would get into, and it's happened
a lot to become much more prominent in

326
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my UFO research. Right, I
felt the same way. Actually when I

327
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got involved with this stuff, I
was extremely skeptical, but like you,

328
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I found some cases that are hard
to ignore. What are some of the

329
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other good abduction cases do you think? Oh? Well, I think the

330
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Pasca Goula abduction case is really interesting, and Travis Walton, of course,

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you know, we know Travis very
well and he's just such a great guy.

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I mean, that's really tough.
There's a lot of them to go

333
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into, and I think that a
lot of the more historical cases seemed more

334
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plausible to me now, and I
don't know if that's because people are more

335
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exposed to the idea. So again
you have people who are making things up

336
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and or hoaxing. But the historical
cases, it was less prominent, not

337
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:08.240
a lot of people knew about it, and patterns started to emerge where people

338
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all over the world were sharing similar
experiences without knowing, you know, any

339
00:29:15.119 --> 00:29:18.759
details behind it. What I like
about the Walton case too is that it's

340
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a little different in how it worked, and same with past with the I

341
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mean with allay ash and that there
are slight differences and overall, at least

342
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with Ala Gashes similar I guess to
Betty and Barney Hill and that they were

343
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taken and experiments done on them and
then put back unharmed, you know,

344
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and Walton didn't have the experimentation aspect
of it, so his is a little

345
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different, which I like because then
it's like he's not copying. But the

346
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creatures were a little different in these
early ones in their description, whereas nowadays

347
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it's the same creatures doing the same
thing. It gets a little more difficult,

348
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right, right. There's typically I
think about four different different type of

349
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creatures that have been described by people. Obviously you have the more sinister mantis

350
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like beans, you have the grays, of course, and some people report

351
00:30:25.000 --> 00:30:33.000
seeing multiple species in the same encounter, like Whitley Strieber. Yes, like

352
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Whitley Streeber. It's all kinds of
them. So yeah, that's what it's

353
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a little bit hired about abduction.
And the other thing is that at least

354
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with some of these early cases,
like these fowler ones and stuff, they

355
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were a little I think more careful
about the regression therapy that they did,

356
00:30:52.759 --> 00:30:56.559
especially with like Betty and Barney Hill. I mean, they had psychologists that

357
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were doing this work and they were
careful not taking contamination, where when you

358
00:31:03.319 --> 00:31:11.119
have amateurs doing it, then that
contamination is more likely, right, which

359
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:14.519
also is a little bit more difficult, So I agree, and I don't

360
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know. For me, I think
that very few of them do I find

361
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compelling as far as evidence of a
phenomena otherwise at least an extraterrestrial possible phenomena,

362
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But others seem to be possibly a
psychological phenomena that might be more prevalent,

363
00:31:37.559 --> 00:31:41.000
right right, I think that that
is very on the money. Do

364
00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.599
you think there's a lot of hoaxing? You know, I don't as much

365
00:31:45.640 --> 00:31:49.880
think that there's a lot of hoaxing
as there is, Like I said,

366
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sometimes people having experiences that can be
explained by a much more terrestrial or psychological

367
00:31:56.440 --> 00:32:00.960
explanation, And that's definitely not the
case always, you know, but but

368
00:32:01.079 --> 00:32:05.440
you do come across that a lot, right, Yeah, it seems to

369
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:10.640
be. I'd agree with you totally. So when it comes to you know,

370
00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:19.480
looking at UFO cases overall, you
know, and spacing out you guys

371
00:32:19.680 --> 00:32:24.240
every week look at the news and
speak to these things, and sometimes there

372
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are critics in that, you know, say we're explaining things away, right,

373
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yes, and that we're you know, people will say, well,

374
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this should be quote called closed minded
because you just report on sightings that you

375
00:32:42.359 --> 00:32:51.000
can prove or something else, and
that's not true. We're not trying to

376
00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:57.759
debunk everything. Basically, the reason
a we're presenting on news that is making

377
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headlines in the mainstream media, and
a lot of times things can be identified

378
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:06.119
and it's not a st debunking.
It's as saying, well, you know,

379
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actually this was probably a you know, Chinese lantern or a blimp or

380
00:33:12.559 --> 00:33:15.839
something like that, and moving it
into the identified category. And the reason

381
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why that's so important in my opinion, is because then it makes the cases

382
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that can't be explained stand out and
you don't just believe everything you see.

383
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You know, sometimes there's a much
more terrestrial explanation. And yeah, so

384
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we get we get quite a bit
of criticism for that, but look,

385
00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:40.759
I mean there are great cases and
if I can identify something, then I'm

386
00:33:40.759 --> 00:33:45.799
gonna say it. I'm gonna be
excited about it and say this UFO is

387
00:33:46.119 --> 00:33:52.920
unexplained. Could it be military or
something more extraterrestrial in nature. I mean,

388
00:33:53.599 --> 00:33:59.119
that's what research in journalism is all
about. You have to be responsible

389
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:05.279
and you know, the the mainstream
media reports all these things, well,

390
00:34:05.359 --> 00:34:08.239
that's what the majority of the general
public is going to see, and so

391
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:15.480
by making people aware of things that
can be trying to make them more aware

392
00:34:15.719 --> 00:34:21.199
that they go out and look for
the good cases, you know, And

393
00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:25.599
unfortunately, like you said, this
Scientology case is a great signing, but

394
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:31.559
the Sun you know, covered it
up with Scientology. It looks like crazy

395
00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:35.480
in the sentence, you know,
in the headline, right, yeah,

396
00:34:35.519 --> 00:34:39.159
I know that exactly. So one
of the comments too, I saw recently

397
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which makes me think, and it's
well. Before sharing my reaction to the

398
00:34:45.199 --> 00:34:52.000
comment, I'd like to know yours, someone said you need to uh something

399
00:34:52.039 --> 00:35:00.440
like you need to do what your
readers want. Oh well, I mean,

400
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I don't forget why everyone is so. You know, you go in

401
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to watch a program that is established
and the purpose of spacing out is to

402
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talk about the news media. We
cover a lot of things in the past.

403
00:35:16.880 --> 00:35:21.599
We've you know, covered a lot
of interesting special events with military people.

404
00:35:23.400 --> 00:35:30.519
Is that why would we change what
that particular show is about to format

405
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to please one or two people?
You know, we have plenty of other

406
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content on our YouTube channel, serious
interviews that we're trying to encompass the whole

407
00:35:43.760 --> 00:35:47.280
range of the spectrum. And again
this goes into getting younger people involved too.

408
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:53.920
Spacing Out is kind of aimed at
the general public and a younger audience

409
00:35:53.960 --> 00:36:00.079
as well. We want to make
people happy, but we also have to

410
00:36:00.119 --> 00:36:07.719
follow the formula that we've produced the
show on m Yeah, and what I

411
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:10.480
you know, there are a lot
of people already out there like that.

412
00:36:10.480 --> 00:36:14.320
That's why I love, you know, working with our whole group, you

413
00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:17.719
know, our video guys, you
and Jason and Antonio, we're all trying

414
00:36:17.719 --> 00:36:23.360
to be journalistic and we in our
approach. There's a lot of other sites

415
00:36:23.400 --> 00:36:28.960
you can go to where they're going
to tell you everything's an alien, everything's

416
00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:34.199
in abduction, and they're going to
tell their readers and listeners what they think

417
00:36:34.239 --> 00:36:38.199
their readers and listeners want to hear, whereas we're trying to report and be

418
00:36:38.320 --> 00:36:44.519
true to the reporting and the facts, which I think is really important.

419
00:36:44.559 --> 00:36:49.519
So I mean, I guess these
people who want to be told what they

420
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:52.280
want to hear can go to some
of these other ATHLETs. Well they'll be

421
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:58.320
told that. And these other outlets
know that they think they'll get these people

422
00:36:58.360 --> 00:37:02.599
because they do that all right.
And also it's about self integrity in a

423
00:37:02.639 --> 00:37:08.920
sense where I'm not going to change
my belief because someone believes different than me.

424
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:14.159
If I've done on my end the
research and the facts presented to me

425
00:37:14.599 --> 00:37:19.360
that I've formulated my opinion. If
new news comes out that changes that,

426
00:37:19.519 --> 00:37:22.400
then great, I'll change my opinion. But I'm not just going to change

427
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:28.519
it because Alejandro, you tell me
that you think I'm wrong, you better.

428
00:37:30.400 --> 00:37:37.199
You talk about bridging other topics,
and a lot of what Spacing Out

429
00:37:37.239 --> 00:37:42.039
tries to do and we try to
do on the website a bit is bridge

430
00:37:42.039 --> 00:37:46.360
with space science. Why do you
think that's important? Well, I mean,

431
00:37:46.480 --> 00:37:54.719
on the first perspective is because if
we're studying unidentified craft in the extraterrestrial

432
00:37:54.719 --> 00:38:01.679
phenomena, and we believe that life
out there in the universe, well then

433
00:38:01.719 --> 00:38:07.679
it's important to study space. I
mean, that's right, the basis the

434
00:38:07.599 --> 00:38:14.800
groundwork for it. And you know, in a sort of selfish respect,

435
00:38:15.320 --> 00:38:21.760
I'm so fascinated by space and the
exploration of space that we think that maybe

436
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:27.719
possibly in our lifetime, we will
be able to discover life on another planet,

437
00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:34.880
scientific evidence of life on another planet. Yeah, And I mean,

438
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:39.159
I guess in this field, it
seems like a lot of people feel that

439
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:46.800
science hate uphology and these other ideas
bad extra trestrals and I and so they

440
00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:52.320
feel they have this animosity, you
know, it's just versus them type of

441
00:38:52.360 --> 00:39:00.880
thing. However, You've been able
to interview some people in the mainstream around

442
00:39:00.880 --> 00:39:04.679
space science, and do you feel
that that is the case. Yeah,

443
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:08.719
you know, and I think that
one thing we see in the UFO field

444
00:39:09.480 --> 00:39:15.280
is a lot of people will say, well, science, they're not looking

445
00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:17.880
into it. What we already know
life exists out there. We've already discovered

446
00:39:17.880 --> 00:39:22.920
it is visiting us here, so
why would we go looking for life out

447
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:30.119
there? They believe that, you
know, the alien creatures that were or

448
00:39:30.159 --> 00:39:37.000
exterrestrial beings that are present in so
many cases, well they know where they

449
00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:42.440
came from because they were told telepathically
or whatever sorry I shouldn't say, or

450
00:39:42.480 --> 00:39:45.519
whatever, that there's no point in
going to look for life, even if

451
00:39:45.519 --> 00:39:50.519
it's microbial. No point. So
I think that they tend to shut down

452
00:39:50.599 --> 00:39:55.360
a little bit some people when it
comes to the idea of allowing you know,

453
00:39:55.400 --> 00:40:00.159
and a lot of people believe NASA
is part of a big government conspiracy,

454
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:04.000
and so they sort of got a
sour taste in their mouths in the

455
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:07.559
regards to space research. Yeah,
and I like working with these people like

456
00:40:07.679 --> 00:40:13.719
Ben McGee who were friends with you
know, and some of these others who

457
00:40:13.840 --> 00:40:16.800
we've talked to, some of these
other scientists, and even though they're skeptical

458
00:40:17.039 --> 00:40:22.320
in some cases, they're not as
skeptical as people would think. They're also

459
00:40:22.360 --> 00:40:29.400
often very open to speaking to whoever
about whatever ideas. And I find it

460
00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:35.840
refreshing because they tell me they help
me understand science better and where science is

461
00:40:35.880 --> 00:40:42.039
going, and what cases are more
interesting to them and why so we can

462
00:40:42.079 --> 00:40:45.519
help to be more compelling when we're
presenting our information, right, right,

463
00:40:45.559 --> 00:40:49.960
I think that's extremely important. One
thing I found was interesting is we had

464
00:40:50.800 --> 00:40:55.440
doctor Michael Dennan who presented at our
conference, and he's more skeptical and more

465
00:40:55.519 --> 00:41:01.400
science minded, but he was mobbed
after he talked with people wanting to discuss

466
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:05.800
ideas with him. And that was
really refreshing and I hope that that sort

467
00:41:05.840 --> 00:41:08.760
of trend continues in a sense.
Right, He didn't shy away, he

468
00:41:08.800 --> 00:41:14.360
came out, he stayed with the
group wherever group activities were going on.

469
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:20.079
Was very open, really cool guy
who just wanted to talk. Yeah,

470
00:41:20.079 --> 00:41:22.360
And I think that we see that
a lot that this field can get a

471
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:30.320
little bit not cultish, but cliquish, and where people will tend to attack

472
00:41:30.400 --> 00:41:35.000
other people for their belief if they
think, you know, that they are

473
00:41:35.920 --> 00:41:38.320
on the other spectrum, if they're
more skeptical. When half the time a

474
00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:42.880
lot of these people, like again
like doctor Dennin, are very open to

475
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:47.159
discussing this with people and there's no
sense in attacking. It's like the idea

476
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:53.639
of why can't everyone just get along? Yeah? Those bastards. Oh,

477
00:41:57.599 --> 00:42:00.519
I like just saying that word.
It's fun, but of course I'm kidding.

478
00:42:01.519 --> 00:42:07.599
But yeah, at least not about
anybody who's anti us. Yeah,

479
00:42:07.960 --> 00:42:15.559
but nobody is. People love us. We're great. So when it comes

480
00:42:15.599 --> 00:42:20.559
to I guess the future of this
field, and it seems like there's a

481
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:25.159
lot more media attention going on,
do you think that's positive? Yeah,

482
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:28.719
in the long run, I think
it is. I And I told you

483
00:42:28.719 --> 00:42:32.000
this this morning, Alejandro, is
that I had a friend this weekend say,

484
00:42:32.119 --> 00:42:36.599
oh my goodness, did you hear
the news about the Prime Minister of

485
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:39.760
Canada And they were referring to the
honorable Paul Hellier, which we've reported on.

486
00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:44.480
We've had a matter of conference,
and they were really excited about it

487
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:46.960
and It's a trend I see all
the time. It's working full time in

488
00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:51.119
the field, is not a nine
to five jobs. It follows you everywhere.

489
00:42:51.199 --> 00:42:53.360
I have people constantly asking me questions
about different cases and sightings, and

490
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:58.599
they're excited or coming up to tell
me their sighting stories. And these are

491
00:42:58.840 --> 00:43:00.599
you know, my friends that I
you know, if I'm hanging out at

492
00:43:00.639 --> 00:43:06.079
the bar or something that somebody I
would never expect. That said. We

493
00:43:06.159 --> 00:43:10.440
had a UFO siding over our neighborhood
when we were young, a huge disc

494
00:43:10.679 --> 00:43:15.519
like craft, and they're serious and
you'd just be surprised how many people have

495
00:43:15.840 --> 00:43:22.320
experiences. And it's a lot more
acceptable and tangible than the media lets it

496
00:43:22.320 --> 00:43:24.519
out to be. I think,
mm hmm. Moving here to Phoenix,

497
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:28.679
did you find there were a lot
more people that had seen the Phoenix lights

498
00:43:28.679 --> 00:43:30.599
and you had expected. Did you
even know what the Phoenix lights were when

499
00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:37.320
you moved out here. I did
know what the Phoenix lights were briefly,

500
00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:39.840
you know, but I didn't know
the extent. And now again it's the

501
00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:44.920
same thing where, oh, I
know this person or my barber saw the

502
00:43:44.920 --> 00:43:49.960
Phoenix lights and it was a lot
of people, and you know, of

503
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:58.320
course there's the two different siding sort
of that happened that night with you know,

504
00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:01.400
the flares and then the blooming craft. And this was seen not just

505
00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:08.679
over Phoenix, it was seen all
over Arizona from the east or excuse me,

506
00:44:08.719 --> 00:44:13.760
the west, all the way down
to Phoenix. And it's really intriguing

507
00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.320
case that I think we'll never really
get to the bottom of. Now.

508
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.519
When you what was it that inspired
you to even get inspired your interest in

509
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:27.239
this field? Did you have a
sighting? You know, I've seen strange

510
00:44:27.280 --> 00:44:32.199
things that I can't explain, but
like Antonio, yeah, like Antonio,

511
00:44:34.639 --> 00:44:37.239
No, I think that when I
was younger, I was really fascinated by

512
00:44:38.480 --> 00:44:45.719
the unusual and the strange, and
that has definitely continued into adulthood. And

513
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:52.599
I had no idea how interested I
was in an extraterrestrial life until my mom

514
00:44:52.840 --> 00:44:55.039
and when I got in the field. Finally my mom found a bunch of

515
00:44:55.119 --> 00:45:00.920
drawings of UFOs and aliens that I
had produced when I was about eight nine.

516
00:45:00.559 --> 00:45:05.079
So it's been, I think,
a lingering presence in my brain and

517
00:45:05.119 --> 00:45:09.320
then I happened to fall into it. I was working for a multimedia company

518
00:45:10.360 --> 00:45:17.360
and the woman I was working with
owned at the time, NICKI Irvine the

519
00:45:17.440 --> 00:45:22.199
International UFO Congress, and then one
of our clients was UFO TV, and

520
00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:29.599
so I started getting involved that way
and then came to work for Open Minds.

521
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:34.760
Well. I helped start it at
the beginning and happened to know people

522
00:45:34.760 --> 00:45:37.719
in the fields already. It was
kind of a stroke of strange luck.

523
00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.480
I guess, Yeah, how weird, huh, because I had volunteered with

524
00:45:42.519 --> 00:45:45.480
the Congress a couple of times,
so that's where I met Niki. But

525
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:49.079
who knew that we would end up, you know, running this conference.

526
00:45:49.800 --> 00:45:58.679
Yeah, it was interesting. Now
it's I This February was my fifth UFO

527
00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:02.920
Congress. Wow, that's a long
time. I know. It's strange how

528
00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:08.960
quickly time goes by. And I
had no idea how deep and involved I

529
00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:13.480
was going to get into this field. I would have never thought that,

530
00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:16.719
you know, this would be my
life, so to speak. But it's

531
00:46:16.760 --> 00:46:21.760
an interesting adventure, that's for sure. It's funny you mentioned those pictures she

532
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:24.639
drove because you have one here at
your desk, And you know I mentioned

533
00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:31.679
Antonio because on the last facing out
you guys interview him about these accusations that

534
00:46:31.800 --> 00:46:37.239
he's an aliens due to something oh
my goodness video at the hearing. But

535
00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:40.480
because of your pictures when you were
a kid, people have alleged that you

536
00:46:40.599 --> 00:46:49.039
may have some alien background too.
Yes, I have been told that some

537
00:46:49.079 --> 00:46:53.199
people believe that I am an abductee, but I'm not admitting to it,

538
00:46:53.320 --> 00:46:58.079
or that something happened in my childhood. And really, for me, I

539
00:46:58.079 --> 00:47:01.719
can tell you I had night terrors
all the time, and when something's so

540
00:47:01.880 --> 00:47:07.199
prominent in your life again like now
where this is my full time job,

541
00:47:07.239 --> 00:47:09.480
I dream about work all the time. So yes, I have weird alien

542
00:47:09.559 --> 00:47:15.559
dreams, but I don't feel personally
that that that is the case. It

543
00:47:15.599 --> 00:47:24.079
maybe because I have a really hard
time with the abduction experience as an idea

544
00:47:24.119 --> 00:47:29.760
of something that's going on. But
no, I think that, you know,

545
00:47:30.079 --> 00:47:34.079
I was influenced as a kid by
you know, watching I had ET

546
00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:43.280
on VHS time, and I was
terrified of ET. But Antonio, yes,

547
00:47:43.320 --> 00:47:46.280
I have been There's been comments that
since I have big eyes or something,

548
00:47:46.320 --> 00:47:52.039
that I'm actually an extraterrestrial alien myself. And I hate to break it

549
00:47:52.119 --> 00:47:57.480
to you, but my parents would
beg to differ well, and that reminds

550
00:47:57.480 --> 00:48:01.280
me of the spacing out you kind
of made some some interesting you know,

551
00:48:01.400 --> 00:48:07.960
you sounded like you were a little
skeptical of Antonio's rebuttal there to not being

552
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.679
an alien. Were you convinced by
him? Oh? Well, you know,

553
00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:15.920
I was trying to approach the cases
and in a little bit of a

554
00:48:15.960 --> 00:48:22.280
Stephen Colbert interview, which it didn't
last that way long because I honestly think

555
00:48:22.320 --> 00:48:27.800
that I did a little comedy in
it, because the allegations are so ludicrous

556
00:48:27.840 --> 00:48:35.599
in my opinion, that Antonio would
be a reptilian alien. It's sadly a

557
00:48:35.639 --> 00:48:43.440
lot of people believe that, and
you know, I really think that we

558
00:48:43.480 --> 00:48:46.159
cannot prove that until he'd get a
DNA test done. Yeah, we're trying

559
00:48:46.199 --> 00:48:51.159
to get him to do one.
And you know, I'm I don't like

560
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.880
to discriminate. I like everybody.
So even if he was a reptilian,

561
00:48:55.199 --> 00:48:59.880
he would I would not treat him
any different and I would still respect him

562
00:49:00.079 --> 00:49:04.119
and as a colleague. Yeah,
And that's what I tried to tell everyone,

563
00:49:04.119 --> 00:49:07.320
at least at the end of the
interview, is is that Antonio has

564
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:13.119
put a lot of work and research. He's been in this field for longer

565
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:16.960
than you know, he's older than
dirt, so that he's done a lot

566
00:49:17.000 --> 00:49:22.199
to push credibility in this factor,
and you know people are ignoring that and

567
00:49:22.960 --> 00:49:30.239
thinking that he's mind controlling Stephen Greer
during the system hearing. I don't know,

568
00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:37.360
right, So I guess finally,
your overall feelings about the future of

569
00:49:37.679 --> 00:49:42.920
the field overall, I mean,
not just media, but if you see

570
00:49:42.960 --> 00:49:46.960
hope or where do you think there
should be movement where perhaps you feel there

571
00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:54.280
isn't. I think that there is
movement in the field in the world.

572
00:49:54.639 --> 00:49:59.960
You know, we have a lot
more countries coming forward and taking the subjects

573
00:50:00.039 --> 00:50:12.480
seriously and organizing official UPHO investigation outposts
like in South America. But it's going

574
00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:15.039
to take a lot, I think
for it to become more of a credible

575
00:50:15.079 --> 00:50:19.760
subject. I think it's starting to, and you're getting more people who are

576
00:50:19.760 --> 00:50:25.119
willing to come out and speak about
the subject or their experiences. But you

577
00:50:25.159 --> 00:50:28.880
know, mainstream media is going to
be mainstream media, and I think that

578
00:50:28.960 --> 00:50:34.119
getting over the ridicule factor is going
to be quite a leap, you know,

579
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:43.159
So hopefully that'll happen eventually. But
I see more interest from the general

580
00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:46.480
public in the field, and people
are starting to take it a little more

581
00:50:46.519 --> 00:50:52.519
seriously, and this trend hopefully will
continue. And again it's with space exploration

582
00:50:52.800 --> 00:51:00.159
and we're finding so many more habitable
planets that people are much more accepting the

583
00:51:00.199 --> 00:51:06.079
idea of life other life in the
universe. And do you see any sort

584
00:51:06.239 --> 00:51:14.000
of disclosure officially from the military or
the government anytime soon. That's a tough

585
00:51:14.000 --> 00:51:19.400
one because you can argue that maybe
there has been a bit of disclosure.

586
00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:24.320
I think that we're going to see
more files released eventually, and we'll see

587
00:51:25.480 --> 00:51:32.239
more information. But no, I
don't think disclosures, official disclosure is going

588
00:51:32.320 --> 00:51:37.920
to happen in our lifetime. I
don't think that someone is going to come

589
00:51:37.960 --> 00:51:40.039
out and say, yep, UFOs
landed on the White House lawn. We've

590
00:51:40.079 --> 00:51:45.920
been working with aliens for one hundred
years and it's happening. No, I

591
00:51:45.920 --> 00:51:49.800
don't think that'll happen. If it
did, do I think the public would

592
00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:52.920
be shocked? No, not really. I think that people would be accepting

593
00:51:52.960 --> 00:51:58.599
of it. Yeah. I think
the public is moving a lot towards kind

594
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:05.039
of feeling that these realities are something
that are possibly happening, and comfortable with

595
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:09.920
that pretty quickly. Right. Same
with religion. I think religion will be

596
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:14.440
accepting of that. After the Vatican
came out and said, you know,

597
00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:19.320
we also believe life's out there,
and I think a lot of religion have

598
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:25.039
ideas that tie into the idea of
extrastrial life. And then I guess,

599
00:52:25.119 --> 00:52:29.639
actually, I will ask one more
question in that this space science and the

600
00:52:29.639 --> 00:52:34.079
astrobiology we talked about some of the
people in this field and you spoke to

601
00:52:34.159 --> 00:52:37.400
this feel like, oh what a
wasted time and all of that. But

602
00:52:37.559 --> 00:52:45.079
do you feel then if science NASA
were to find finally evident of life off

603
00:52:45.119 --> 00:52:50.880
off planet, do you think that
would be significant? Oh? Most definitely.

604
00:52:51.800 --> 00:52:55.440
I think that I think it will
happen and I will see it.

605
00:52:55.679 --> 00:53:01.000
And there's a lot of missions going
around that are are making that idea of

606
00:53:01.079 --> 00:53:07.960
possibility that we could discover this,
and I think that that's extremely important.

607
00:53:08.400 --> 00:53:13.280
Why would it not be? Hey, I'm with you, and I think

608
00:53:14.280 --> 00:53:17.320
it will open up people's acceptance to
the possibility. Hey, weol if there's

609
00:53:17.400 --> 00:53:22.320
life, then most likely there's intelligent
life, right, And I think that

610
00:53:22.320 --> 00:53:30.840
the next hurdle is is physics and
people accepting that, you know, how

611
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:37.519
could we travel from another planet?
Well, I mean we're getting really close

612
00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:43.239
to star Trek warp drive being a
reality. I believe his name is Al

613
00:53:43.280 --> 00:53:52.519
Kubiere was coming out with information about
that recently, and it's physics as we

614
00:53:52.599 --> 00:53:57.320
know it right now, that who
knows what could happen sort of bending the

615
00:53:57.360 --> 00:54:02.119
space and time continuum up there.
It's hard to wrap your mind around it,

616
00:54:02.159 --> 00:54:06.360
but you got to be open to
the idea that we don't know everything,

617
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:12.079
right, we don't know nada.
All right, Well, thank you

618
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:17.800
so much, Maureen, very insightful, interesting information. Well, thank you

619
00:54:17.840 --> 00:54:22.400
for having me on my pleasure,
and we will talk to you soon.

620
00:54:22.440 --> 00:54:25.599
In fact, yeah, we'll talk
to you probably in a minute here.

621
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:32.280
Oh right, thank you very very
much for listening, and thank you to

622
00:54:32.360 --> 00:54:37.960
Maureen for joining us today. And
as usual, you know our YouTube,

623
00:54:37.039 --> 00:54:44.000
we are keeping really busy. So
you've got this spacing out with Jason and

624
00:54:44.079 --> 00:54:49.519
Maureen in their interview with Antonio about
being an extraterrestrial. We have a Hime

625
00:54:49.719 --> 00:54:55.000
Moussan video up there, like Maureen
mentioned, we have the Paul Hellier video

626
00:54:55.159 --> 00:55:00.639
actually is up there. We also
have some really cool UFO F photographs that

627
00:55:00.679 --> 00:55:05.360
we've highlighted in some videos to give
you some history over a couple of famous

628
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:10.119
sightings, one of them from Salem
in nineteen fifty two and one of them

629
00:55:10.119 --> 00:55:15.519
near Edwards Air Force Base in nineteen
fifty four. So some really interesting pictures,

630
00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:17.159
so check that out. So check
it out YouTube. It's always got

631
00:55:17.239 --> 00:55:22.119
something going on. And of course
check out the magazine. The Aligash story

632
00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.159
that Marine's talking about, you'll be
able to find in the magazine. And

633
00:55:24.199 --> 00:55:29.000
if you go to our website Open
Mindset TV, you can click the magazine

634
00:55:29.039 --> 00:55:34.719
button and buy some back issues or
subscribe going forward because it's only like thirty

635
00:55:34.760 --> 00:55:37.840
bucks and the magazine is awesome,
and then it'll be sent to your house

636
00:55:38.280 --> 00:55:40.719
and you'll always have it. You're
probably going to want to get three or

637
00:55:40.719 --> 00:55:45.880
four subscriptions so you can give them
out to family and friends, very important

638
00:55:46.199 --> 00:55:52.400
people. I also, before I'm
done, one to think, as usual

639
00:55:52.719 --> 00:55:58.039
the gentlemen who have provided our music. So thank you to Caleb Hanks with

640
00:55:58.159 --> 00:56:01.280
the opening music and two Earth minutes
for the clothes, and thank you all

641
00:56:01.360 --> 00:56:06.920
for listening, and we will talk
to you next week. People. Adios.

642
00:56:07.440 --> 00:58:10.079
Chuck us Sais stands School