S. What up? Everybody? Welcome to another edition of Let's Ask Paul,
the podcast where you get to ask me Paul Abernathy anything you want about
the National Electrical Code and all things electrically related. We're gonna have a great
podcast today, So hopefully you've listening on one of your favorite listening platforms.
We broadcast on Spotify, Spreaker, Deezer, iHeartRadio, Apple Podcast, Google
Podcasts, all of your favorite platforms. But of course you can also listen
to our podcasts on our free mobile app. You just go to our website
and it's downloadable. All it does is put a little icon on your phone.
It doesn't actually load any any software on your phone, just an icon,
and when you click it, it brings up our mobile web adaptable type
of mobile app, and that way we change it and changes in real time
so you don't have to worry about any bloatwear on your phone. And that's
kind of the direction that we've gone in most of our stuff. So check
it out. But it has a first thing you do when you get the
mobile app is register it, because it's easy. It's just one click on
there, put it in your new username password that you create and Boom.
Then you get access to all the other features, but it also allows you
to use the chat feature and interaction feature and stuff that I post on there
that don't post anywhere else, that type of stuff, So make sure you
get it. And I will talk about in this podcast a couple of new
things that are going to be coming out in the next couple of weeks,
and I'll spoil the beans on one of them, going to be a nice
little newsletter that comes out that you can subscribe to with a code change in
it each week, and something that we have. So anyway, I don't
want to I don't want to spoil that because you want to make sure you
subscribe to that. So anyway, welcome to the show. Today is going
to be interesting topic today. We're going to be talking about electrical inspections and
there's a lot of misconceptions and uh, misunderstandings circulating all over TikTok, Twitter,
Instagram, all types of platforms, and we want to make sure that
we, you know, kind of spill the beams on that because there's a
lot of misconceptions about that, uh and uh, so that's kind of what
we want to do with that. So that's what we're going to be talking
about on today's episode, we're going to be talking about electrical inspections and kind
of killing some of the myths. Now I get it right off the bat.
The negativeness of this. What people have on social media is they say,
well, the AHJ makes the rules, they can do whatever they want.
They want you to drive five hundred ground rods. That's example somebody gave
on TikTok. I believe ors TikTok or Facebook is they believe that, yeah,
they can make you do anything. And I'm here to tell you that
is not the case. It may be what you feel, but I'm going
to break that down for you a little bit, and we're going to talk
about enforcement. We're going to talk about what they can and what they really
can't do. We're going to talk about the local amendments and how you would
change that. But we're also going to focus on the fact that there is
also an issue where they do they do not want to get in trouble for
something we call retaliation. So we're going to break all that day now in
today's episode. All Right, So, first and foremost, I'm a big
supporter of licensed electricians. If you're not licensed. You're an electrical worker and
you're working to wards licensure. Whether or not your state requires it or not,
it still should be your ultimate pinnacle to be licensed. So with that
said, we help you get that license over at our websites fastracksystem dot com
or master the NEC dot com whatever. All of roads lead to teaching you
something about the National Electrical Code and helping you have a better chance at passing
your licensing exam. And of course, if you want to continue to learn
THENEC, we have programs for that as well, grounding and bonding and all
kinds of good things over on fasttracksystem dot com. And we appreciate all of
that support. If that's hard for you to remember, folks, you can
just go to master THENEC dot com as well. It'll get you there.
So all right, so let's talk about HJS. HJS is an acronym for
authority having jurisdiction. Now, one of the misconceptions about electrical inspectors is or
any inspector, is that they are the AHJ. Now, if you're in
a small community where the building official is also the person doing the inspections,
they're the one that's in charge of enforcing the state adopted standards, or if
you're in a state that doesn't adopt it, and they utilize the ANYC at
some point where they local, jurisdictional, regional, however they do it.
If they enforce the ANC for electrical installations, then there has to be somebody
that's going to take control on AHJ that has to be the one that's going
to make those ultimate decisions. For example, even if you had a military
base, uh and it was outside of the scope of the National Electrical Code
and they're making decisions and they want the base to follow the National Electrical Code
for their installations because it's a good minimum safety standard, somebody has to be
designated as the AHJ that that may be the actual base commander. It may
be just like what they inspection for a municipality. They may have a building
official that deputizes, if you will, the other inspectors or in this case,
FI was a military base and it's not under the purview of the of
the municipality, then they have their own rules they have to follow, but
they assign somebody as an ah J and they make a lot of those decisions
and it passes it down and you have deputies and in our case in municipality,
those deputies would be your local, your your your inspector that goes out
and looks at the project. Again, small communities, that might be one
guy that does all those and wears all those hats. Right, But at
the end of the day, it's typically, uh, usually a building official
or a building commissioner, and they're going to have additional inspectors that are going
to be out there as their eyes and ears. Okay, So the HJ,
let's get this one out of the way first. The AHJ typically is
going to be the building official or building commissioner that is going to be the
final say, the inspectors that are out there inspecting. Uh. If they're
not the building official or the building commissioner, then they typically are the deputies
for the building official. So they're HJ by proxy of their extended power from
the AHJ or the building official or the commissioner. Okay. So that's the
first thing. So when an electrical inspector comes onto your project and they reject
it, they are not the ah J again unless they're you know, you're
in a small county that's a one man show that one guy does everything.
He may be or she may be, but not generally that's not the case.
Okay, So now I'll and that's kind of gives you an idea of
what we're going to talk about today. And I'm gonna go deeper because I
come from that background. Okay, So people that when I post on TikTok
or Twitter or I guess it's X now all these others, and they go,
well, you don't know what people seem to forget. And it's not
braggadocious by me. It's the fact that I'm blessed enough to have lived a
lot of experiences. Most people know. I worked for NIMA and I was
there, you know, electrical expert for the South. I worked as the
electrical engineer too for the City of Richmond, Virginia, oversaw inspections UH and
UH did the training for all of our inspectors and you know all you know,
electrical plan review, fire alarm review, all this kind of stuff.
And I was also at the City of Alexandria, Virginia, where I was
supervisor of the UH of codes or inspections and oversaw inspections, whether it's electrical,
plumbing, mechanicals, so and obviously done and as an inspector myself for
years, okay, not just being a master electrician, an educator and all
this other stuff. I walk to that walk in that air, so I
understand clearly what my limitations are of electrical inspector. Now we're going to break
that down because again I can already hear people in the comments or people that
are listening saying, look, that's different in my jurisdiction. I'm here to
tell you that's bullshit. It's not different in your jurisdiction. It's what you
will allow it to be in your jurisdiction. Okay, So I'm going to
explain what I mean by that. Now we're also going to talk about sometimes
it's there's some issues that may be just not worth the effort. When you're
dealing with somebody that's just so hard knows and maybe they are misinterpreting it or
they don't understand it, and they're forcing you to do something, and you
personally personally give in and say, look, the inspectors they allow you to
they tell you to do whatever they want you to do, and you just
got to do it. That means you have given in. That means you
have given up. Okay, that means that you're willing to do whatever they
tell you to do. And so that's what we're going to talk about today
as well. Okay, so let's get into that topic. We are going
to do our first break and talk about a sponsor and then we'll get deep
into more information on this topic today. Hey, folks, if you've ever
wanted to have a great video platform that does not have the commercials, does
not have the stuff that takes you away from the learning process from really engaging
in videos, well I invite you to check out our fasttrackstube dot com.
That's fast trackstube dot com. For ninety nine dollars. You get access to
it for twelve months. You get access to all recorded webinars, you get
access to past webinars. We have some great series over there, Grounding and
Bonding series. We have the webinar that was eight hours on calculations. Really
great stuff over there, and we do our effort to procure great videos throughout
the internet, filter them, go through them, and make sure that all
of the information is relevant, accurate, and beneficial to our subscribers. If
you're interested in showing your support, then go over to fasttrackstube dot com.
And subscribe today. That's fasttrackstube dot com ninety nine dollars annually, and I
promise you it would be the best investment in your learning process you've ever made.
All Right, So let's get back on to Let's get back on to
our topic. So inspections inspectors. So let's talk about the first thing that
people want to talk about is does an inspector electrical inspector have any liability?
Do they have immunity? I hear that all the time from people and inspectors
have immunity, that things like that. Well, there's certain things that you
have to understand, and it does change throughout different administrations through the enforcement community.
One state in one city may have different rules that are changed. But
as a whole, an electrical inspector, if they miss something, and they
just honestly miss something, then they have up to In Virginia, for example,
I use that as a key example, they have up to two years
in order to correct an error of something they may miss. Now, the
problem with that is if the building's already done, and it's already moved on
into the process, CEO is issued, and people are living in there,
then chances are they'll never encounter it, right, But if an inspector passes
something that they know is wrong, uh, they know it's wrong and or
you know, that's a problem because then they can be held accountable. So
there's no blanket immunity for you know, ignorance. So we have this thing
in the industry called miss Jesus, maul Jesus and non Jesus. And one
of the concepts is is if an HJ or an inspector is a deputy of
the HJ, carrying out their orders on behalf of the h J, which
gives them that power. What happens is if you knowingly pass something that you
know is wrong, okay, and you know it's wrong, and that's a
that's a bar that you have to you'd have to convince somebody that they didn't
know it when they passed it. And so if you do that, then
the chances of the AHJ being held accountable for anything or the inspector is slim
to none. Okay. The old thing is we all make mistakes. That
doesn't mean they can't be sued or attempted to be sued, because you can
sue anybody in this world. Everybody gets sue happy. But typically you're probably
not gonna win that case. They'll just plead ignorance and they didn't know.
Now if they know better. So if they have a high level of threshold,
let's say they attend a lot of education, a lot of training,
and we'll pull all that out. If you were to have to go to
court, we'll find the level of their expectation that they should have been knowledgeable
in something. If you can argue that any electrical inspectors should have known this
is is basic one oh one in their course material. In other words,
what I would do is I would pull if they do continuing education for electrical
inspectors, I would have them pull their their their education log to determine whether
they went to training. I would subpoena the training material to see whether a
certain topic is covered or not. We would turn no stone unturned in order
to find out whether this is pure knowledge that they should have known, and
if that's the case, then they can be held liable for that. The
biggest thing that I run into is when the question is can an inspector be
held accountable if they make you do something that's not code, If they make
you do something that is not code and something happens, they most certainly can
be held liable. Okay, this is why I always used to tell my
inspectors that, look, I do not want you imposing your own will on
somebody's installation. Just follow the minimum safety code and let it be the choice
of the installer and their relationship with their customer. Right, that is the
choice in order to do something that may be above and beyond code. A
great example of this is over on social media the big debate, and this
one is a trip, the big debate about using anti shit short bushings for
MC cable. You have a select fused people that say, oh no,
it's I've done it, and it stops shorts and it saves a fire and
all that. I call bullshit on all of that. Bullshit on all of
that. Okay, that you may have one or two incidents where it was
actually the cable was stripped and done improperly to begin with, that has nothing
to do with the anti short bushing. It's the ignorance of somebody's ability to
understand the trade and how to do something properly. So I will chalk that
up as poor training and poor skill sets. Okay, the way fittings are
listed for mc cable makes this requirement for an anti short bushing irrelevant. It
doesn't appear in UL fifteen sixty nine. It doesn't appear in the NEEC.
Now, ac cable's a different story. Article three twenty dot forty is going
to give you that guidance. But when it comes to mc cable, three
point thirty dot six requires listed fittings. The fittings are designed by the manufacturer.
It does not require an anti short bushing. Now, you might buy
a fitting that has a red throat in it that is an abrasion proof throat,
okay, And that's because they're fitting where the wires come out of the
end could be sharp, and so they put this because they're using really thin
sheet metal to stamp this thing out or something like that. So they might
put a grammet in there. But that is not an anti short bushing.
That is just a Brasian grammut Okay. So got to understand the difference.
But my point is if you want to use them or not, that's a
purely your decision, not the neec's decision. So I'm not here to tell
you that you can't use them. Go ahead, knock yourself out. I'm
not going to use them, and people say, well, your a heck
whatever. I'm using a listed product, the listed fitting that doesn't require anti
short bush If you want to call that a act, you go do you
boo. But in the end of the day, it is a something that
has to be decided and if you feel better about it, then go for
it. People say, well, the manufacturers supply them, so that means
you have to use them. That is not true. Now, when you
have a product that has instructions, and the instructions are submitted as part of
a listing for a product, then that is one thing. But anti short
bushings are not part of any listing that has been submitted for evaluation. The
manufacturers supply anti short bushings for MC cable. I'm gonna say this once today
and we'll get back onto inspector topic. I'm gonna say this once today for
all of you people out on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, all the bullshit
that you spread. Okay, the reason I'm going to tell you right now
and ask me how I know. You know how I know the reason that
manufacturers have supplied you anti short bushings for MC cable in the past is because
we are ninety nine points eight nine percent. Sure you don't know the difference
between MC and AC cable. So in order to make your life easier,
we're gonna give you a baggie of these little anti short bushings. That's all
it is. It's not part of the listing, it's we're giving them to
you. Now, that's different with AC cable armored cable. The standard UL
four requires us to supply thirty five of them for every two hundred feet coil
of AC cable. That's right in the standard, folks. So everybody that
argues with me about anti short bushings, why do you think they don't require
them for MC? Of all these years? Why do you think we have
manufacturers? Don't you think that they would have an increased risk of liability?
The fitting people, the cable people. Don't you think that the standard they
would push for these these anti short bushings if they were such a big deal
for MC cable. Don't you think we pushed for it because manufacturers of wire
and cable and fittings, they want to do whatever we can do to reduce
our liability. That's one of the things I do for major manufacturer is I
reduce their liability by knowing how to utilize the NEEC. So when something frivolous
comes in, I throw it back in their face due to improper installation.
There's a little secret. I will find something wrong with your installation that will
cause anything that you present to be thrown out. So you have to install
it right. You install it wrong. Don't have any expectations of any product
to be reliable or whatnot because you install it wrong. That's why it's so
important to learn the NEEC right to you install things correctly. Anyway, I
digress, but just remember manufacturers do not require it. Hell, go to
all the product sheets for every MC cable manufacturer and there'll be a note on
there that says that anti shortbushings are not required. If you want to use
them, knock yourself out. If you make it. If it makes you
feel better, knock yourself out. But stop being an a hole and say
that other people's jobs are inferior because they don't use them. Wake up,
Wake up. That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard. I never do the
minimum code. I always go above the minimum code. Again, I'll say,
like I always do. You do, you boo, But that doesn't
make you a better electrician. Okay, so nough of that. So bringing
it back to the inspector, if an inspector makes you do something that is
above the NEEC, or makes you do something that is below the NEEC,
then they are accountable. Okay. They are accountable because if something goes wrong,
they forcibly deviated from the minimum safety standard. Okay, that's important fact
to remember when it comes to inspections. And this is what I tell inspectors
out there all the time. There was an example on TikTok or Facebook,
one of them, I can't remember which one, where the individual said that
an inspector made him drive five hundred ground rots in order to achieve twenty five
oms. I'm sitting here thinking, I'm suing that municipality for my labor,
my time, my costs. I'm suing them, And you think, well,
you know, what's the point. Look, people sue. There's people
who say things about other people and they sue them for deformation. You know
that didn't cause them any harm, and they end up getting millions of dollars.
And you're going millions of dollars for what you know, you have to
show that you were harmed. Well, if you make me do something above
code and you forced me to do it, then you are harming me.
You are harming me financially. You're taking away my time, and my time
is expensive and it's up to me to determine what my time is worth.
And so I'm suing you. At the end of the day. There's a
lot of electricians out there that say, Paul, I just it's not worth
it. They have too much power. I'm gonna call bullshit again. You've
accepted them, folks. I've been there. I've worked for municipalities. Trusts
me, they do not want you raising a stink and so, yes,
you might get an overzealous inspector, but the moment that you call them out,
you go to their supervisor. You don't stop. You be vicious and
you say, well, I don't want to do this because they'll affects me
on other jobs. Then you document it and you have what's called retaliation,
and you go to their supervisor. If that doesn't work, I'm telling you,
because I've been there, go to the city manager, go to the
mayor, go to a council meeting. You have to stand up if you
feel there's something huge going on in your community and you accept it and roll
over. Then don't blame everybody else, blame yourself. It's kind of like
when you don't like what the NEC says, but you don't get involved in
change, then we don't want to hear it. We don't want to hear
it. You either get involved or get out. So now the question that
comes from some people is like, well, Paul, it's just a little
thing here. They're making me do this. It's just a little thing,
and I don't mind doing it. Then that's a choice that you make.
And I get it. Sometimes not rocking the boat helps a project get done.
I get it, dude. I've been there. I've been an electrical
contractor. I've taught people electrical contracting consulted. I work with electrical contractors.
I understand it. I worked as inspector. I've worked as a head of
jurisdictions. I get it. I even worked with NIMA, who worked with
five over now I think it's four hundred and fifty manufacturers around the country.
I was their expert for thirteen states in the South. Look, I get
it. But if you don't stand your ground for something, then it hurts
everybody else. And sometimes a big mouth does get results. Okay, sure
it gets the attention, but it gets results. Do not accept an electrical
inspector forcing you to do things that you think is wrong. And I've offered
this forever, folks. I've offered this service for free forever. If you
have something in inspectors making you do, just go to Paul Abernathy dot com.
It's a free freaking service. I've been doing this for years now for
you folks. Free. Send it information in, give me as much detail
as possible. Tell me the jurisdiction, Tell me exactly what they're doing,
and I will give you a response that you can present to them, and
I will help you with your argument because I want to stop this this enforcement
that goes way above the minimum standard. That needs to be a choice between
you and your customer if you want to go above the minimum standard. Plus,
folks, we have to educate and not all inspectors they're educated as well,
just like not all electricians are educated as well. Look, I don't
know any other educator out there that offering this stuff for free. I've been
doing it for years. It's free consulting. You just have to do it
through our Paul abernaty dot com portal because of our disclaimer. I'm not designing
systems, I'm not doing it. I'm giving you what the code says,
purely black and white. So anyway, that's that's my thought. That's that
first part of that one there. So before I go into the next topic.
If an inspector's making you do something above the minimum safety standard and you
know that they're wrong, you've consulted and you know what is and then people
say, well it's up to interpretation. Well, if their interpretation is crappy,
then you can poke a million holes in it. But there's always somewhere
to go. Now with that, let's talk one. Let's let's shift gears
to what we call retaliation. And so you're out there saying, well,
look if I bring up these things and the guy is going to give me
a hard time on the next installation, it's all how you do it if
you want to be an asshole, and how you confront the guy. That's
one way, but there is a tactful way to do this with a an
attempt to educate the ignorant. Okay, so again that's it's it's you have
to understand how to do that. So if you're a kind of guy that's
just just in your face. Then you need to rethink about how you deal
with Maybe you need to take our course on what's called soft skills and and
and smooth out your edges a little bit. Smooth them out a little bit,
and then learn how to present an actual case your inspector. Now I
get it to some people that'll say, look again, if it's something little,
they're like, ted, it's not worth the argument. I don't want
to delay the project. Don't worry about that. Then that's a decision you
make. Don't blame anybody else, don't blame the jurisdiction at this point,
that's a decision that you're willing to accept. Suck it up, accept it,
do whatever they want you to do, and get it done. Like
the five hundred ground rod guy, Dude, if you're okay with that,
drive your damn five hundred ground rods and leave. I could never be okay
with that ever. Okay, So anyway, so that type of thing.
Now, let's talk a little bit about retaliation. Okay, let's talk a
little bit about retaliation, because that seems to be the number one topic beyond
the issue of well, the inspector tells me to do this, and I'm
going to do it because they're going to make my life difficult on the next
project. And so am I here to say that that does not happen.
Absolutely happen. Right, If somebody gets a chip on their shoulder and you've
had an altercation with them and they come to your next project, then there's
a higher probability there's going to be a lot of tension there. So,
but here's the thing. Retaliation in the enforcement world is very bad because the
city managers, the city council, the community, nobody wants to think that
there's somebody out there retaliating. It's almost like a cancel culture thing. Whereas
something happened, you know, when Trump got the attempted assassination and people started
posting on there about and him, you know, wish they did miss which
is disgusting, disgusting human beings that would ever post anything like that. I
don't care whether you're a Democrat or Republican. Never wish that on anybody.
I would not wish that on Biden. I would not wish that on Harris.
I would not wish that on anybody. They got kids, they got
family. It's just a job. So anyway, enough of that, But
my point being is that retaliation is kind of in that same area in the
fact that nobody wants to be exposed for just making life harder on the person
that's trying to feed their family, trying to grow their community, trying to
bring jobs, and so retaliation. I'm gonna give you an example because we
went through it. I have experienced this before. If an inspector fails you
and you have a confrontation with them, you know, you have a you
know, we'll talk about later how you're supposed to do it. But let's
say something happens and now the next project, the electric specter comes out there
and then fails you for something that is totally not right. It's just retaliation.
Now granted, if he finds something maybe that you piss them off,
So now they're going to be hyper focused. That's okay. I mean I
would I want the inspector to be focused anyway, right, because we're talking
about protecting people's property in their lives, right, So I wanted to be
focused. I don't wanted to just let things go. I don't ever like
an inspector that lets things go. Okay, So they're hyper focused. That
doesn't mean they're retaliating against you. That just means you have narrowed their scope
of focus to where they're watching everything you do. That's okay. I don't
have a problem with that. Now, if they make something up or force
you to do something that is beyond the minimum safety standard, that is not
an interpretation issue. It's just blatant retaliation. You document it, You write
it down. Hell, you send me at Paul abernaty dot com your scenario
and I'll give you the code references and all that kind of stuff. And
if they're doing this simply out of spite, then at this point, after
your first initial encounter, you should be documenting everything. In fact, I
tell people all the time, we sell these little notebooks over on Electricianpride dot
com, these little notebooks that is like inspection logs. I tell people,
I said, I would make notes of every inspection that you have, everything
that happens, every altercation that happens, a document, especially if you think
there's an issue with a certain inspector, document it. Write it down while
it's fresh in your mind, and be very neutral in it, even though
you're upset. Write down what's going on. Because at the end of the
day, if somebody's forcing you to do something over and over and you know
it's wrong or it seems blatant, and I can't judge what that is.
You know your installation and you know what's going on between you and them.
But if that's the case and you feel it's retaliation, then you most certainly
go to their supervisor. You most certainly stirre the pot because the heat will
come down on them and they will change that behavior if they want to keep
their job. And you've got to be vicious. I hate to say it,
you've got to be vicious if you are getting retaliated against it, and
you can follow a complet with the city. You can go to the city
council meeting and speak out. You can put that person on blast on blast,
Okay, if they're making you do something that is not documented anywhere,
it's not in an amendment that they may have, it's just their own personal
wills and use to me. I will write you an official letter from a
code panel member representing a corporation that does nothing but teach people the NEC.
I will write you a letter that you can present to that city council.
I will do it for free. That's what I'm here for. I'm here
to help you. And again I'm not getting paid for that stuff. It's
I do this because I want people to learn. And even if an electrical
inspector is doing something wrong, I want them to learn. I want them
to learn the right way. So at the end of the day, that's
why we offer those types of services to people. So don't stand for it.
Valiation is even worse. That gets them in more trouble because now they're
retaliating against you. And you can raise the bar now whether you want to
accept it or not. And people say, well, that's just too much
work. That's just too much work, dude. This is the same reason
people don't get out and vote. This is the same reason people don't get
involved in any c development process because they're lazy. They're lazy. Sometimes you
have to stir the pot in order to get change, you know what I'm
saying. But if you're willing to accept it, then that's okay. That's
your choice. Don't blame others or rip others for their choice or whatnot.
You can do it in a tactful manner. Nobody wants to be intimidated.
Nobody wants to be retaliated, you know, that type of thing. So
the retaliation will get them in more trouble. But you have to start documenting
it and then if they and so. So that's the important part of retaliation.
So the next topic we're going to talk about is code references in what
a good electrical inspector should do and how they should do their inspections. We're
going to talk about that next after this word from our sponsor. Okay,
so let's go on and move into the topic of what makes a good electrical
inspector. So when I worked for the City of Richmond, Virginia and Alexandria,
Virginia, and we're developing inspector programs and doing education and teaching and enhancements,
and a lot of the times we also worked on engagement and engaging with
the public because you have to. You have to remember that an electrical inspector
is a public official, so they're working at the will of the people.
That's the first thing that I tell electrical inspectors is to take off your electrician
hat that you had for years. You need to stop the way you used
to think. Don't worry about what other inspectors maybe made you do. If
you were electric electrician for years before you came an inspector, put all that
in the back past. When you've become an electrical inspector. I used to
tell people it's analogy like you've seen that movie Over the Top where Sylvester Sloan
turns his hat backwards, you know, and kind of gets into this mode,
this focus. It's the same concept when it comes to be an inspector.
So you're going out to do a job, and you're going out to
do inspections to keep your community safe. Okay, you turn that hat.
You turn it from your electrician hat or whatever you've had to do in the
past, or you've had maybe some inspector who was hard on you in the
past and things like that, and now you're one and you want to impose
your will on somebody else. Maybe you learn bad habits. I don't know,
but now you're going to be the one going out there enforcing things.
Turn that hat around and now put your inspector hat on. Be fresh,
and that means fresh perspective, and understand that your job is to enforce the
minimum safety standard or any additional amendments that are adopted by your jurisdiction and state
and do your job. Just to do that. The job is hard enough
to impose your own will on anything, Okay, So just go out day
in and day out and enforce the minimum safety standard. Do not impose your
own personal will. So what's a good electrical inspector look like? Okay,
when I'm training an electrical inspector, here's a good one. Here's what it
looks like. For one, I want the electrical inspector to carry themselves in
a professional manner. They're never to argue with the customer on a project.
If there is a debate, it stays very civil. I didn't want to
hear any of my inspectors get into a shouting match or have any bystandard report
a shouting match. I much prefer the inspector to walk away before it becomes
one of those. It can't control what the consumer does, but I can
control what the inspector does. So cool head got to have a cool head.
And that's not so easy for me because I've been a hot head.
So that's the first thing that we try to focus on, is like,
you know what, don't let it escalate. And I cannot say that I
have always practiced that, but I learned from that. Okay, So anyway,
the next thing I'll tell you is that every electrical inspector must continue their
education and continually learn. Now, in most states you have to take some
continuing it whether it's enforced by the state, but there's or by whoever does
the inspector licensing for your state or your jurisdiction. It's not a given in
every state. But a good electrical inspector is going to continue to learn and
thirst for knowledge. Okay, They're going to continue to strive to learn things.
They're not going to be closed minded. Now they know what they know,
and so they're going to enforce what they know. And here's the thing
all good electrical inspectors barring on great electrical inspectors, is that all of the
good ones provide a code reference to substantiate why they'll turn why they're turning down
a project. Now, that doesn't mean that if somebody, you know,
I did have an inspector one time, he's rest his soul. He passed
away a couple of years ago. That was back in Virginia. And when
he would cite somebody for something that would be grounding and bonding. He would
turn them down and just put I mean, at least he followed by rules,
you know, had to give a code reference. The only problem is
that he would give article two fifty the whole freaking article. And I told
him, I said, you can't do that. At least you're not going
to do that under my supervision. I ain't. If you're going to reject
somebody, then you're going to give them the specific section that pertains to why
they failed. And one of the big arguments that people said was, you
know what, that's going to slow down the inspector because they have to stop
and look things up. And you know, one of the things that I
used to tell my inspectors is, you know, the majority of the things
that people fail on projects are repetitive means that they fail the same thing.
Jobs fail for the same thing, generally over and over and over and over
again. So people say, Paul, when you quote code, you spit
out code. It's because I do it all the time an inspector. That's
all you do. So you will get to know what the codes are.
You will get to know what references that you need to give. And if
you don't that's why you have a supervisor. That's why you step away.
And one big advice that I gave to an inspector one time is they were
on a project and they knew there was something was wrong. They just didn't
know. They couldn't find the code reference and the and the customer was there.
And what they did is they said, how do we handle that?
If you just don't know what you know something wrong? Then I tell them,
take take a break, tell them, you know what, let me
go back to my vehicle. I'll be right back. I'm gonna look something
up and then go back and then pick up the phone and call your supervisor.
And now I've got electrical inspectors all over the country that pick up the
phone and give me a call on the job. I say, Paul,
I got a quick question. Can you answer a quick question for me?
And I'm more than happy to help. That's who I am. So I
got my haters out there, but people can't say I don't help people.
Okay, you know, you might catch me at a bad time and I'm
short with my response, but it just because I got so many things going
on. But you can email me, you can text me, you can
do a Paul Abernathy dot com. I mean I am approachable, okay,
so I will help you out in that scenario, and then you go back
to the customer. So that's the first thing I'll tell you. Electrical inspectors
never engage in a debate with a customer on site unless you know the code
section that you're enforcing. And if that means you have to step away for
a second in order to get some additional information to come into the discussion educated,
then do so. But do not educate or try to educate from thirty
thousand feet and just say, okay, yep, it's a violation of Article
two fifty when you know it may be the sizing of the equipment ground and
it needs to boil down at the two fifty one twenty two ABCDE whatever it
may be. So you got to be specific. And if people specters say
they don't have enough time to do that, shame on your jurisdiction. Shame
on your jurisdiction. How do you expect an electrician to fix something that if
they did it wrong in the first place, and you don't tell them exactly
what they did wrong, how the hell are they supposed to fix it?
Are they supposed to read your mind? No, you have to give guidance.
So that's my message to all you electrical inspectors out there. Raise your
game. This is your profession, this is what you chose to do.
Be professional about it. And that means every time you cite somebody, give
them the actual code reference that justifies your rejection of a project because you're stopping
the project, you're slow in progress. It's going to cost that electrician money,
it's going to delay the owner of the building or the property. Everything
gets stopped and time is money. So if you're going to justify a stopping
because you think something is a minimum safety standard which justifiably needs to be corrected,
make sure you're giving them the proper references. Don't just give them the
thirty thousand foot answer. That is your responsibility as an electrical inspector, plumbing
inspector, or mechanical inspector or whatever. So that means that it's your responsibility.
And we have some great ones out there. My inspectors that were in
Northern Virginia, for example, these guys were very highly educated. They spent
the time learning the code. I would hold code training weekly and they were
all there. Now. I know they were required to be there, but
they really did care about understanding the code, and if there was something they
did not understand, they knew they could pick up the phone and call me
right away and I will give them an answer right away. Okay, I've
been doing this for a long enough time that i will give them an answer.
Because the things that the electrical inspector typically run into are repetitive. It's
the same stuff over and over and over and over again, in just different
flavor from project to project. So my advice to an electrical inspector is,
don't impose your own personal wills. You may be wrong in your interpretation,
and if you're called out on it, be open to discuss it. If
there's something on a project that you want to reject and you're not exactly sure,
then take a picture send it to your supervisor. If your supervisor doesn't
know, then that's a problem. Then you need to go even maybe to
the building official. And at that point, you know, the building official
or the supervisor probably has somebody that they can reach out to. Maybe it's
me, you know, maybe it's other experts in the industry to give them
an opinion. Because at the end of the day, you do want what's
right. Right, So again I appeal to the inspectors out there, do
the right thing. Get your education, don't stop learning, keep learning the
code. Remember that your responsibility to educate. When you have that knowledge,
let people know, give them all the information. Okay, that's my advice.
That's how you are a good electrical inspector. That type of thing.
Okay, okay, So that's how you become a good inspector is learn your
craft. Be cordial, don't let you don't get hot headed if you don't
know something but you know you're going to reject it because you think it's something.
Take pictures, document, walk away, call somebody for assistance. Maybe
meet up with other inspectors so that you all can be on the same page.
Get on a phone call. Uh. Don't think that that can't happen,
because it did. I know because I was ahead of a jurisdiction and
all these things happened, and it did not take a lot of effort.
Because you should want it done right. But do not impose your own personal
will. Do not force people to do things that is beyond the minimum standard.
Let them make that choice. Okay, it's not your choice, it's
not your place. Just make sure it doesn't fall below the minimum standard.
Okay, that's okay. Now, the next topic we're going to get into
is we'll get into is how electrical contractor or the electrician should act when it
comes to interactions with an electrical inspector. That's what we're going to talk about
next after this word from our sponsor. Okay, so let's talk about how
an electrical contractor should react when there's a confrontation with an electrical inspector. Now,
this comes from experience. This comes from overseeing many electrical inspectors and dealing
with internal things, complaints that have been followed by customers on the inspectors,
having to do a mediation between disagreements between inspectors and building officials, and dealing
with the general public or the consumer or the electrician, all those type of
things. So this comes from experience in kind of looking at seeing how this
interaction plays out. Obviously, a level head always saves the day. But
at the end of the day, an electrical contractor, let's say you're doing
a project, and let's use the example that we have of the five hundred
ground rods. Okay, because that's the most extreme shit I've ever seen in
my life, and that is really was posted by somebody to me. I
have to call BS. I mean, really think about it. Who's going
to drive five hundred gud? I mean, come on, really, I
call BS. I think it was just somebody that's bloviating online. But okay,
five hundred okay, So let me tell you how I get how I
would engage that situation. You know, you can't laugh in their face,
Okay, I just want to show you how we how would I would deal
with that situation. Okay, you ready? Okay. So the first thing
that I'm doing as an electrical inspector, I'm doing the inspection and I have
an inspector come out to the project and they're looking and they go, you
you have to you have to get twenty five oms or less. And I'm
paraphrasing because I'm just trying to get you to the point where we can have
a discussion. And they go, you got to have this ground rods,
not twenty five oms or less. And the way I interpret it, the
way I interpret to fifty fifty three is that you have to get it to
twenty five oms or less. Okay, so that may be they're weird interpretation.
Okay, So me, as an electrician, I'm going to respond like
this. I'm going to go, I understand what you're saying, but can
we have a discussion about what the any are you open to a discussion about
looking at the National Electric Code together and understand where you're coming from, and
then listen to where I'm coming from. And then you pause. And there's
two paths that an electrical inspector can take. The electrical inspector can have such
a chip on their shoulder that they say Nope, it's my way or the
highway, okay, and then there's no sense in you going beyond that.
There's no sense in you trying to argue with somebody. And I find this
on TikTok and Instagram. There is no sense in arguing with somebody that is
not willing to discuss it. Are there's so set in their ways that they're
not even willing to give it a consideration, okay, especially when you know
different. Okay, So let's assume they say nope, my way the highway.
Then you stop arguing immediately. You're going to judge the situation on whether
or not this is financially feasible, whether or not your project needs to go
forward, whether or not you're going to want to stir the pot, you
have to make that decision. I tell you right now, making me drive
ground rods until I achieve twenty five homes or less is not something that I
am willing to do. Okay, I am not willing to do it.
So at that point my reaction would be, Okay, you know what,
I just want to respectfully tell you that I disagree, and I'm going to
be contacting your supervisor. Hell, I'm going to be contacting the city manager,
the mayor, city council, whatever I can do, because you're getting
ready to put my company in financial hardship. A contractor trying to do what's
right, and you're imposing your own personal will and the NEC which is in
my opinion, an incorrect interpretation unto me. So I'm not going to argue
with you. I respect you, but I'm not going to be doing that
at this moment. But I will remind you that I'm I'm going to document
my lost time in this process for me to have to go to your supervisor,
for me to have to go to your ce CBO as a chief building
official or certified building official or your commissioner. I'm like, look, and
I'm not doing it against you, thank so, I'm i a right.
You have to do this in a very mono tone, okay, and you
have to trust me. Folks, you have to separate yourself when you do
this very monotone and say, I just want you to know that that's where
we're going to go with this, because I do not agree with your interpretation
of this. Now, remember how we got there. We got there because
the guy wasn't willing to discuss anything. So all you're doing is not yelling.
You're not arguing. You're not going to win anything. You're not going
to change a guy by browbeating him. You just let him know what your
intentions are. Everything's on the table, and that is a case where I'm
going to fight. So the first thing that I'm going to do, and
I'm going to tell you I can tell you this by experience. First thing
I'm gonna do is I'm gonna go down to City Hall and I'm going to
ask them that you need you would like to file a complaint, and that
you have an intention to also attend city Council meetings and bring this up and
uh, again, you don't need to threaten, only to the level that
you're letting the know that you're not dropping this okay. And you can also
say at that point, you know, I'm following this complaint, I would
like to set up an appointment with your building official or if he has a
supervisor, you want to start there. You can say, I'd like to
set up an appointment with inspector whatever's supervisor and discuss something that is causing me
a great deal of financial hardship or has the potential to do that. And
I'm a contract and you're a public official, and I would like the respect
to be able to have that conversation. So the point is, don't follow
me verbiagely word for word. The point is you go in there and you
state your case, and everybody has a supervisor. Everybody. Now, if
the building official in a small community is not only the inspector, but the
building official, then what you do is you have to understand in that small
community, they probably have a city manager. They probably also have a a
mayor, right And the other thing that you can do is you can send
certified letters to the members of city council. Now that's something that a lot
of people think is a lot of work, and it's not a lot of
work. All these people's information is public. Send a certified letter and this
is where you actually explain what happened, and you know, don't make it
bad by getting in an argument with the inspector. That's why I say,
if you realize that they're not going to have this discussion, that you monotonely
explain to them what you're going to do, and that's what you put in
a letter. And then that's when you reach out and make sure that your
interpretation is accurate, reach out to people like me, other people and make
sure that you know you've got your your ground to stand on, and then
submit that to the city council. Okay, And that's another way to do
it, And it sounds like it's a lot to do, but you have
to understand something. If you don't change them, or you don't get involved
in it, then the next person is what's getting stuck with this as well.
And then at the next person and the next person, and if this
inspector is not willing to have a simple conversation about it, then you know,
now then that's wrong and we have to fix that now. If you're
fighting and you're wrong, I will be the first to take you you're wrong,
okay, but you can't really know you're wrong unless they give you the
code reference, they give you the information, and if they give you nothing,
then that is the grounds where you have to you have to fight.
Now. I get it. There's many people out there that say, you
know, and I'm not fighting with the inspector. Again, I talked about
this earlier. He'll make my life miserable. That's retaliation, and you follow
the same course of action for retaliation. Again. At the end of the
day, what do you give a shit if they're ego eyed on your inspector.
If you're doing everything right and you know your trade and you're doing it
to the best of your ability, and you're taking pride in your work,
you don't care whether somebody is looking over your work with an ego eye.
I don't care. Right, if you're doing it right, then you're not
trying to cut corners. Then who cares that you get an inspection? Really?
Who cares? I want to do it right. Every electrician should want
to do it right. You should not want to pass off crappy work.
When you go get a surgery done, do you want the doctor to pass
off crappy technique? Do you want them to leave a freaking scalpel in your
body? We have to start remembering that the electrical profession, you have to
take the pride in it and its requirement of us to continue our education,
to learn what we don't know it, be inquisitive about things we want to
know and learn more about, and challenge the status quo. Do not just
accept what somebody says as gospel research it, get interpretations from other people,
form your own opinion. Okay, so it you know, With all that
said, being very tactful as an electrician first and making sure that before you
get into an argument or a disagreement over some inspector pulling something out of their
ass ask that question. Just simply diffuse it and say are you willing to
discuss the reason for you rejecting this project? Are you willing to discuss because
I disagree with this? If they give you a code reference, by the
way, are you willing to discuss this again? If they immediately say nope,
there's nothing to discuss, just fix it and you know you're right.
Then you want to do just like I said a few minutes ago. You
want to say, Okay, well I disagree, respectfully disagree, And since
you will not discuss it and you don't want to have a conversation about it,
then I'm have no choice but to go to your supervisor or follow whatever
chains is necessary in order to deal this. Deal with this, because you're
costing me money, you're costing me time, you're delaying the project. Now,
I'm going to caution you that what I see on TikTok, what I
see on Instagram, what I see on YouTube, and all this kind of
stuff people that electricians and I'm not disrespecting anybody that's listening. Please don't take
this personal because I have no way of knowing who I'm talking to. I'm
just talking in general. Some of the stuff that you post on here would
not be worthy of a very good argument to an electrical inspector. It'd be
like arguing about something and it's very clear that you're not educated on it.
You may have heard it from somebody, you may have heard it from the
grapevine, you may have just learned it through osmosis from somebody, but it
doesn't make you right. So that is the number one thing that causes problem
is when you have a confrontation between electrician and inspector on a project. The
electrical inspector is citing something and the electrician disagrees with it, but they're this
They're not going to be able to argue their position based on knowledge. It
may be just been legend, it might be what they think they know,
and from any indication on social media, it's amazing what people don't know but
they think they know. Now, I'm not saying that to make fun of
anybody. That's not my point here. My point is it would be much
better for you to do this. You're not going to win anything in a
tit for tat battle on a job site. So I used the example early
of the five hundred ground rods, which is ludicrous, but I would like
I said, I would have said, you know, I respectfully disagree with
your interpretation and this code reference, and since you're not willing to discuss it
and we can go look at the code together, I am going to have
to take this to higher source because you're costing me time, labor, you're
slowing the project, and you're not listening to my concerns and you're a public
servant and I'm an electrical contractor. I paid for the permit, we paid
for you to be here, and so if we can't have that discussion,
then I'm gonna have to go to a supervisor. Now, the key here
is if you get into a tit for tat and you're wrong on the code,
you're not gonna win that battle. And it's gonna look worse if you
even go over their head and cause a lot of problems. So the best
advice I can give for an electrical contractor is have a level head, ask
immediately whether or not they're open to discussing this and looking at the code together,
in taking the time, and if the inspector says nope, it's my
way or the highway, I'm out of here. I gotta go. I'm
not sticking around. I'm not gonna Then you say, you know what,
I understand. I understand, I respect you as the electrical inspector, but
I disagree with your interpretation or I disagree with especially if they don't give you
a code reference. And I'm say, you know what, I'm gonna take
this and I'm obviously going to have to go above you to your supervisor.
Uh. And if it means I got to go to the commissioner building commissioner
building official, or even to city council or even to the mayor, I'm
going to do that because at this point you're not willing to discuss anything with
me, because look, you can get on a job site and argue it's
not going to win you anything, especially if the electrical inspector has a chip
on their shoulder, You're not going to win. You're not going to win.
So that's my advice for electoral contractors. Ask the question up front.
If they reject you and you get it, and you call them up and
say, look, I'd like to discuss why you turn me down. Give
me If they don't give you the code reference, the first thing you should
always do is ask for code reference. Please give me the code reference and
explain to me why you rejected me. If they refuse to do that,
then dude, you have got to not just be complacent in it. You
have to fight the system. But you do. It's smart. And if
you're worried about retaliation, just listen to what I said earlier in this podcast,
go listen to this podcast. Later I talk about retaliation, I talk
about the process, all that kind of stuff. I talk about what a
good electrical inspector should do. Listen to it. Hopefully, if you came
into this late, then you'll go back and listen to that, because this
has been a fairly long podcast. All right, folks, that's all I
got for today. I just wanted to make sure we covered this topic on
that. Obviously we can go deeper into this type of subject. But again
that's my thoughts on electric inspections. And you have to stand your ground,
have to be respectful, don't get into an argument on site, be very
professional. You're electricians. Stop the arguing, stop the bitterness, stop the
bounding the chest, support your information, back yourself up with the receipts,
the goods. Make sure you have the goods. And if they still won't
listen to you, do not be afraid to go over their head. Everybody
has a boss. Okay, all right? Until next time, folks,
Stay safe, God bless, and remember check us out over on fasttracks system
dot com. If you want some good nec education, if you want to
get access to our exclusive videos, check out fasttracks tube dot com. Until
next time, Stay safe, God bless