What's up, y'all is Drewski and I've teamed up with Mountain Dew to produce a hilarious new basketball podcast called The Due Zone with Drewski. Learned the backstories of your favorite balls and celebrities like Jamal Murray. Did you have like a favorite team? Was it the Raptors at the time or no? Was the Raptors even started on the top? Come on, bro, I had that talking like I'm Vifty, Taylor Rogues, Asian Wilson, and many more. You won't want to miss this. Listen to The Duo Zone with Drewski on Apple, Podcast, Spotify and wherever you listen to podcasts. What is krack alact hardly knocks listeners. I am Danced the Valley coming at you without my fancabulous co host Adam Bromol. I'm also coming to you on the heels of a pretty busy trade deadline. I thought we had a nice balance of impact trades being moved. No superstar, but we had an All star and vouch the Driladipos, a two time All Staries, made an All MBA team and he's at least interesting on the heat. George Hilda, the Sixers. Kyle Awiey wasn't moved, but it kind of seemed like he might actually been a Laker. That could have been a Laker excuse me at one point, which is something I doubt any of us saw coming that close to the trade deadline. Baron Gordon to Denver stuff is super interesting. Of course we're going to get into it all. I bring on my good friend and colleague Grant Hughes at GT Underscore Hughes. He really does a great job covering the the NBA. He's a great writer. If you haven't checked him out again at GT Underscore Hughes spelled exactly as it sounds. Before we dive into this, and it's a long podse I'm going to try and make this sub two minute intro happen for you. Remember to continue rating, reviewing, and subscribing to us on iTunes whether or not you use it. Five star ratings only, even if you're going to criticize us. Trust me, I read them all. I saw the recently got a four star one. Because we're almost perfect. 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And finally, follow the Sports Math Network as that is going to be the home for a lot of the stuff that the MBA Math, MLB Math, QB math all under that one umbrella. It's at the Underscore Sports Underscore Math. Let's get into the trade deadline, the fallout, winners, losers, buy out candidates, analyzing a bunch of the big deals and some of the smaller ones with Bleacher Reports Grant us Brant. Welcome back to the Hardwood Knox Podcast. It has this time on like last time, not been just like five days since I last had you on, It's been went almost two months, So so how are you doing. I'm doing well, I am. I'm frankly most excited that at least for a few days, I'm not going to have to come up with any fake trades anymore because we're post deadline now and now it's just let's look at how the teams are as they exist instead of imagining how else they might exist in the future. So that's got me pretty stoked. What did you think of the trade deadline though? Did it exceed miss just meet your expectations when looking at the action, and even if not, the number of moves, the scale of those moves, I would, Oh, that's a good question. I haven't thought about it like in its totality, I thought it was a pretty good trade deadline. I can remember, like the ones you don't want are where nothing happens at all for the first you know, basically nothing happens until like three hours before the deadline. But then the worst are the ones where nothing happens. The one where Luke ridden now got traded like four times in fifteen minutes. I forget what year that was. It could have been like twenty fifteen or something. That. Those ones where everything happens in the last half hour, I hate those because those are just like you can't keep them straight. This one add a nice pace to it, and the scale like a couple All Stars, or at least one. I'm sure I'm forgetting somebody besides, but I guess there was some Ki all Star na baby. Uh. Yeah. No. I thought it was a good one, and there were some exciting things that I did not expect to happen, and then some ones that just like made too much sense not to happen. So he had a good mix. Yeah, I think I agree with you that I had a nice pace because it normally it feels like nothing really happens until twelve and then they just keep coming, and like you said, it gets hard to keep up with. We kind of got started at like nine thirty ten am Eastern time. It was the Java McGee trade to Denver, and then it kind of you know, there are points. At one point it did snowball. You have like the you know, the five sizemic deals at once or whatever, not seizemic with five moves at once, But we closed with sort of a whimper, right, it was only like in the last hour, what were there? Maybe was there two? There are three? It was the and I think the biggest of them was Rondo at that point when looking at the late part of the deadline. So I didn't think it was a bad one. They're definitely felt and I know trade deadlines are exhaustive and you get repetitive at some point, but I just felt like we were recycling through the same names and scenarios so much more than normal. And I don't know what it was about. I don't want to criticize any reporting because that's a very hard job to have those sources. But Sharania Sham Sharania tweeting out all these trades without details was just like, dude, you know we need those we need those deeds. I'm trying to grade these trades. Can you give us the details? But it was just Denver like confirming that Denver acquired Aaron Gordon three times without telling us anything that was involved in the deal. Yeah, well you need to know about those pick protections. And all that good stuff, but which does really matter, especially if you're trying to grade it. Like I kind of enjoyed, like because I wasn't doing a grade while this was happening, so I get to say this, like I enjoyed just the sort of broader strokes and I was as I was keeping track, I was keeping it simple until the details came out. It was just like Karin Gordon to the Nuggets. That's what ninety percent of people who care about basketball need to know about this transaction. But for everybody else, it's like the picks and you know, not know so much for that trade, but like for example, the Luchovitch trade to the Bulls, that those picks matter and you know what they are and when they are and what the protections are. No. I So I think, like another thing you made me think of was I think this deadline was as notable for what happened as what didn't because and maybe this is a function of we spend so much time and energy leading up to the deadline, like months in advance thinking about likely trade candidates and landing spots and packages and making up this and that and the other, that you sort of are prepared in some capacity, or you've at least thought about almost everybody being traded. But then when some of the bigger names that had been rumored a lot, just like Lonzo Ball for example, like when he doesn't move like that's kind of as notable as anything to me. And there are several others, many of whom will be bought out and we can get to that. But I think that was another kind of striking feature of this deadline is what did not happen. Yeah, I guess I never expected the restricted free agency to get moved because they're like Collins, Lanzo Ball, their value was just so tough to pin down. I didn't think I didn't want the Raptors to trade Kyle Lowry because I want there to be a chance that he gets to actually play again in Toronto since they're in Tampa right now. But it did seem like they were going to move him. And then I thought the Kings were going to sell someone, whether it was Rashaun Holmes, Barnes, Buddy Heeled even. I thought that was going to be on the table, and the fact that it wasn't was a little surprising. Actually, they acted as buyers. Basically, they sold off Beelitza, but they acquired redacted and they also picked up the Lon Right, which is a move that I actually, you know, thought was fine, but I saw Kings fans are actually pretty unhappy because you know, for the cap equerries out there, they only have early bird rights on homes, and so you can pay him up to about ten point five million this year before you go into cap space, and I would hazard that he's going to get more than that, just because I think he's I haven't dug too deep into it. I think he's the best center on the market this summer. Oh wow, labe Mitchell Robinson, if the Knicks decline his team option and let him become a restricted free agent, like even if Abaca declines his player option. I'm just I'm struggling to find someone who's better than him. You know, he's really good at just you know, the continuing degradation of what teams are willing to pay centers might keep him within that one hundred that ten million dollars figure. I don't know, but I was, yeah, the King's I'm surprised Bagley didn't go anywhere. I mean, what does that say about his market? Because it seems like they're just they're done. He's if he's healthy, does he get moved? Though? Because he's injured right now, it does become a little bit easier in that maybe maybe, I mean, you know, I don't know. I just have always been out on him, so I'm maybe not the best person to ask, but like the injury certainly doesn't help. I don't know, you want to talk about Lowry? I mean, I guess I hinted at him and you mentioned him. What direction do you want to take this? Yeah, look, let's just talk about let's just go back. Let's just ping pong some winners and losers here. If you want to start with the raptors, you're the guest, what do you peg them as after the looking at what they actually did it to deadline and obviously what they didn't do. I guess if they have to be one or the other, they're a winner. So the Lowry thing, you know, we'll find out in the coming days. I think sort of what contributed to him not moving, I imagine it had as much to do with the Sixers or heat, just probably the Sixers, because I feel like if the Heat had wanted to they could have included Tyler hero and the deal probably could have got done something, you know, somewhere or another. But I think the Raptors do find like in theory. Yet you know, you you run the risk of him leaving in free agency and you didn't get anything for him. But I don't know. I guess at some point, like I like the feeling that he had some control over where he was going to go, and if you know, it was at least working in tannem with the organization to say like, yeah, you know, they're saying, this is the package we can get. We don't really like it. Do you want to go here? I assume that's sort of how it went, because he has such you know, favorite status, deserved favorite status of the organization. I like the feel of him just being there. I it feels right that he's a Raptor. I think if he had left, he would do the thing where he comes back and retires as a Raptor. Anyway, but it just I don't know, it might have felt kind of cheap Patty left, but then to kind of you know, the Raptors had in another move, they traded Norm Pale for Gary Trent Jr. Which I think on the one hand, and I wrote about this today. That feels like a we're taking a longer you move. Because Trent's twenty two, he's restricted. That gives them a measure of control that they wouldn't have had over Norm Powell even with you know, bird rights. Pal I think is probably going to command more on the market than Trent, But I think there's a real legitimate case to be made that, like say just for next year, starting next year, or Trent will be the better, more valuable player, because it's fairly close now. Trent, I think is the better defender, younger, cheaper, all that stuff. So if you flip it a little bit, that might be the kind of move you make where you're trying to save a little money. So keeping Lowry on his next deal doesn't hurt so much and it doesn't seem like he's willing to take less than his market value, which is fine, but this maybe makes it easier to keep him, which I think if you're the Raptors, and or if you're just me like, I kind of like that. So they're winners. It's hard to know if they could have won any bigger without being sure what the available packages were, though yeah, I would call them a winner two with the yat that if they do let him walk for nothing this summer, like then you lost, because I do think you know, they have the hardest remaining schedule in the Eastern Conference, but I actually think they're gonna end up making the playoffs because if they get I'm assuming they're gonna get to you know, they're kind of approaching full strength now and Kyle Lowry, Fred Vanfleet, Oganna Noby, and Pascal Siakam I've just played in so few games together. I think it's under twenty this year that we haven't actually seen the Raptors and look, they were hitting their stride before Covid just ripped through the roster after all those injuries. But even this, you know, maybe they work out a sign and trade with another team over the off season, so there's still the chance that he leaves. And I like the idea of them not giving up on this team this season totally, because you know, you look at them like they're not. They still would have had Fred Vanfleet, Ogeannaoby and Pascal Siakam had they dealt Lowry too, And at that point, it's like, are you gonna sit all of them for the rest of the year because you're not you know, you're not going to enter the realm of the you know, a top four pick. So I like that they've kept their options open with cap space. I struggled hard in real time with the Norman Powell for Gary Treng Junior trade. I hope Tom landed where you did where it's I think you can ask yourself, you know, and Gary Tren Junior has not been shooting the ball well lately. It basically sort of aligns with shortly after, like halfway through the games that CJ. McCollum missed. Basically, still, you have to ask yourself, you know. Norm Powell has been a spectacular The only player who's averaging at least seventeen points while matching his shooting splits inside and from beyond the arc this season is Zach Lavine, and he's gonna give you more from scratch offense than Gary Trent Junior. But moving forward, I think he's gonna turn twenty eight in May or whatever it was. He's twenty seven. Now would you rather have Norman Powell at four eighty four or Gary Trent Junior at four sixty? Because Gary Trent Junior is a little bigger, but Powell is longer. I think the bigger difference is that one, people are going to be more drawn to a player who creates his own shot a little bit more and definitely puts more pressure on the rim. That seems to be a conscious decision that the Blazers wanted to make. But he's unrestricted free agent, whereas with restricted free agents and Gary Trent Junior's case, going after them is a little bit inherently prohibitive because you're tying up your cap space and someone that you might not get. So unless there's just a super hyper aggressive team that uh, you know, wants to throw him that, you know, the Alan Crab Special, let's call it. At this point, the last Blazer who sort of kind of came out of nowhere and got super paid. It feels like Toronto's gonna be able to keep out a more reasonable cost. And I didn't even think about that in the context of what you just did. And well, maybe that makes it easier to afford Lowry. And if you're you know, if you were on the fence about Powell, you know, like, is this a situation where you could have had like either Powell or Kyle Lowry for you know, between twenty or twenty five million a year, And now it's like, can you do you get two of these guys it's Lowry and Trent for like is it thirty seven or something like that? A year between those two just seems like a better allocation of equity. The thing I was a little bit puzzled by was the Matt Thomas trade because he has another year left on his deal and they basically trade him for a second round or in the forties. But I guess they have that. That's what led me to believe that, hey, maybe there's actually an extension with Lowry in the works, because they're looking at it as we have enough of these dudes who are like under six four. We don't need to have any more of them. See I thought, I thought that deal and there were a handful of others, smaller ones that like Miami made and I don't know if there was another Toronto one, but but if you wanted to sort of get like, you know, be the crazy guy in the basement with the strings and the corkboard and like connecting all the stuff, It's like, oh, this means that that Miami is going to go for for one, for Lowry or something like roster spots are being cleared and all this other stuff. And so that's why I just wonder what what really happened, how close anything was, because there were moves that made it seem like and then it turned out it was maybe just to make room for all the depot or to I don't know, grease the skids somehow for that, but that the Matt Thomas thing specifically made me think something was going on just the last thing. Like for Powell, I think, indisputably, you know, has had a better year than Trent in a lot and but it's just a different player. But he's I do not think Powell's value will ever be higher, right, Like, He's never played, he's never been this good. You know, he's it's not beyond the wrong possibility that he's just getting better. You know, he's gotten better as an off the dribble shooter as his career has gone on. He's he's, like you said, he's just been ridiculously efficient. But I just if you're going to trade a guy, you want it, you want to sell high, and I think I don't know how much higher you could have sold on Powell and again Trent's twenty two. You're just you're just moving the clock back a little bit, you're trimming some of the salary fat. So yeah, I was. I was good on that. There is I understand the difference of opinion, though I don't think it's I think it's probably pretty pretty split opinion overall on you know, who got the better of that? Sugar Ray Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin hag lare In, Thomas Hearns legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth only on Showtime. So it was Kyle Lowry in Toronto next season? Well, let's okay, let's say on the Raptors, because who knows if they're allowed back in Toronto just yet? Uh yeah, I think, I mean, i'd say I'd say there's over a fifty percent chance. I think there's, you know, a really good chances somewhere else. But if it's if it's a yes or no, I think I think not being traded now, even after all we've said, and the prevalence of signing trades. I think Bobby Marks tweeted something out about how like and since twenty nineteen there have been like sixteen of them, and in the previous ten years or whatever, there's been something like four or five or something. So it's like signing trades now when you have a guy that, oh, he's gonna walk for nothing, now suddenly signing trades are like way more in so you're still potentially going to get something that doesn't answer your question because it would move hour off the team. I think if you were trying to move him, trying to get something for him, they would have done it. I think there's a much there's just a better chance that he stays. Do you think he's still gone, Like, is he going to sign with the Heat or Philly or whatever. I'd probably paget his seventy five twenty five he's still there. I just don't. It feels like there could have been, and that's why I want to tackle. I think the three teams that were affected most by him not being moved, it feels like there could have If he said he wanted to have gone to Philly and he said he wanted to have gone to LA It sounds like that there was a deal to be made. The Heat seemed like it was harder because I don't know what the centerpiece asset was for them, Whereas with the Lakers, you know, you could talk yourself into okay, Dennis shrewder KCP and I saw the reportings that they wouldn't give up thht no, and I like, don't necessarily buy that, especially because THD is going to be a free agent restricted for early Bird, so you know he's not going to get super paid for them. Still, he's going to get more money, but it feels like if he had wanted to leave, he'd be on a different team. The only squad that of the three that I think he could have named that maybe Toronto wasn't high on sending him to was the Heat because one of the packages I saw was it was it Kelly Olenick in more salary and then Kendrick Nunn was the framework. And it was like, well, No. One two, even if you replaced none with Duncan Robinson, who hasn't you know some of the sheen has worn off of Duncan Robinson. You have to pay that guy too. And I don't care. I want to make this guy. I don't care about saving teams money necessarily. I'm just looking at the realities of how teams want to act. You're not giving up Kyle Lowry for someone else that you just have to pay this summer. So and so that was the team where I was just like, and maybe that's where we should go. I think the Heat are pretty clear winners here, even though they don't kick Kyle Lowry. You got Victor Oladibo for for nothing. That pick spat it was. It was kind of the remember how the Knicks got the pick spot from the Clippers last year for Mark Mos It was kind of like one of those you know, wink and yeah that yeah, good job, Like you can say that you got the rights to someone's first round pick in this deal that you're never gonna use. Yeah, the Heat I have definite winners I viewed. So I don't know why I do this with the Heat, but all of their transactions I view, like, what level of flex is this? And this is like a ten on the flex because they're like they clearly said you can't have Hero, you can't you know, we're not We're not doing anything where we're giving up somebody that we value as like a core piece, like you can have Kelly Lennock and Myers Leonard or whatever before you know they moved in other deals. But and I think it's because they know that if they really want Kyle Lowry, and Kyle Lowry wants to be there, they'll just sign him. They'll just move the money to sign him in free agency. Like I just think that that is I'm a very big by the way of make cap space when you know you need it, I'm not going to worry about it as much in the regular season. That's why I destroy we'll get the Rockets probably, So I'll say of that, but carry on, No, I'm just gonna say, yeah, they So they basically added Yeah, they get Oladipo for nothing. They don't have to part with, you know, any of those younger guys that Chewa, Duncan, Robinson, Hero anything like that. They get a Reza and a separate deal for basically nothing. Who's the third guy they got that's escaping me now that I can't remember, it's another expiring damn it. Whatever. Anyway, they they're gonna get LaMarcus Aldridge. Probably they're just gonna sign him on the bio marks. I'm trying to even think of who's the third guy they got. There's a third guy now, I can't remember. Maybe you can look it up. While I remember I'm the one who graded every single trade and I can't find it. So I'm actually a little bit nervous. But yeah, so they first of all, so the way that East is situated, and we got to talk about the Nets and Bucks at some point in Philly, there's those three at the top and then it's just like a yawning chasm and it's like Charlotte is fourth, Like it's just a whole separate class of team that's below those three. But I think the Heat now probably should be viewed at least in terms of their playoffs ceiling, like right there with maybe you put Brooklyn and Cut above everybody, but with that upper echelon, and they gave up nothing to get there, like their reasons. Yeah, the reason was the one I said, but he said so, oh, I thought, oh you miss I missed so, which is whatever? But yeah, three expire, three guys that can come off the books if they want to, or they can keep, and they give up zero. Really like practically speaking, and they and they know their cap space goes farther than anybody. If they want to clear that cap space, they can do it and then they can go sign Lowry. And so they just surrendered nothing added themselves to like the they could make the finals again Tier of the East and are positioned even better long term than they were. It's just like the Heat just stay winning. I just it's a It's impressive how consistently they just get the little the little things right that add up to the big things. Yeah, and Chris still was kind of interesting, but like just not someone you don't have the time to develop him in Miami right now. And kelley On Lake had played well next to Bamata Baio, but you know, the Elitz he's he probably would have left in free agency this summer. You weren't going to resign him. The ELITZA replaces at least the spacing. He's shooting poorly from three this year, but he'll shoot better in Miami. That's just that's going to happen. And you have a Reza who's going to spend more minutes at the four next out of Baio. And then Andre Goodald was logging some backup four minutes, so you didn't you didn't really need anyone you trade Avery Bradley hasn't played in a long time either because he's injured, So you did basically get Victor Oladipo for for nothing. And I actually it's funny because I don't know how much. I don't know how much better that off they are because the idea of Victor Oladipo is so perfect for this team, but Victor Ladippo has not actualized the idea of Victor Ladippo for quite some time. But he if any team was just going to help reboot his value, I would definitely still be concerned. I feel like this is phone under the radar, but he had he had a right quad injury that he missed a bunch of games in Houston. With this is this is still happening. Yeah, but I think there's value in now having him. You're gonna just know more of the vitals and how he fits as your team before free agency, So I'm with you on that front. Like this was just a huge win for them, the Lakers. I don't think you can call them losers just because they were so limited in what they can do anyway, I'm not gonna be mad, you know. I think we should just pencil in Austin Rivers for the Lakers on the buyout market. At this point, they need anyone who's okay dribbling and shooting while Lebron is out. That being said, if you could have gotten Kyle Lowry for KCP Shrewder and talent Horton Tucker, would you have done it? And Kyle Lowry turns thirty five the day that we're recording this would would you have done that? And so I did call the Lakers losers and my Lowry winners and losers thing I wrote today, and it was because like that package is a joke to me. I'm maybe I'm not as high on THHD as as I should be. I think there's some Lakers sheen that's on him. Maybe the Duncan Robinson's missing sheen landed on THHD and he's got some extra because he plays for the Lakers, which like's if you've heard this, I can't hear it now, But Zachlos said, THHT sounds like a drug that's just ingrained into my head. Now. Every time you say THHT, I think you're talking about some contraband or something. So it's the designer drug on the news, like the six o'clock news that says, this is a new drug called THHT and your kids might be doing it, but let's tell you all about it. But so I call the Lakers losers really, like in sort of a macro sense, because like that package just was not competitive to me with what some of the other lowry suitors could have put on the table. And that really is like the best that the Lakers could do, which I to me, like the reason I've labeled them losers is because it really does speak to like, this is the cost of building a title winner, slash title repeat, title chaser, is that the covers bare. You don't have picks of any consequence. Nobody wants your first anyway, at least unless you're gonna put them way out there, and like they just the bonus is there as appealing a buyout destination as any So they don't really have to have a lot of good trade assets. But like that was about as good as they could put on the table. And to me, if I'm Toronto, that's below what I'm not saying what Toronto and Philly did offer, but what Toronto and Philly could offer, like imagine the best offers that they could have realistically put on the table for lowry. You'd have much more pick equity, you know, you'd have better younger players you could have thrown in there. Just the Lakers potential package was just like just not competitive to me. Maybe I'm evaluating guys differently. I don't know. I think kcp's useful. Dennis Shrewder is fine, but would they have had long term places in Toronto? Did you want to pay? Part of the reason it seems LA was willing to move Shrewder, and this is from the athletic, is that he wants like twenty million dollars a year in his next contract. So Toronto's not gonna want to pay that. And Thhd's going to get a new contract where let's just say he has to you have to pay him the mid level. I don't know. Yeah, he's twenty, but like there's not enough of an NBA tam will know that you want to do that. I do think that offer, just in terms of the serviceability of the of the pieces, it beats out Miami unless they're including Tyler Hero. So I'll go to that far just because the actual salary you're using matters. But Philly, they're reporting from the athletic was they didn't want to include Matisse Tybal. The thinking was, and this is probably how you tie this to the Nets and the Bucks, is that you have Ben Simmons and now you have Tieble to help you defend the Kyrie's, the James Harden's looking at Milwaukee, Drew Holiday, Chris Middleton, and that kind of makes sense. But was it, like, you know, was it tible in this year's first, because I probably still do that if I'm Philly, I'm not sure about you. If it was like you know, Tieble and Maxie in the first, I get it. In which case, if that's what Toronto was asking for, they weren't moving Kyle Lowry, and I failed to see how they were going to move them to the Lakers for thht if that was their asking price from Philly. The Lakers offer was never getting Kyle Lowry. It wasn't a decision they made. The decision was made for them. So my two file up questions to you are, would you have moved Tyble in Milwaukee plus a first? U, sorry, Philly plus a first? Or Maxie and then the salary filler. And then if you're the heat, would you have actually given up Tyler Hero for Kyle Lowry? Oh Man. So the first one's easier because I'm just thinking one of the things I talking about the George Hill acquisition, which is like great, it makes perfect sense and as an awesome value play, but still the Sixers, I think that just wasn't it, Like I just that's just not it. And I think specifically for the Sixers, I think Lowry was the guy, Like they that's the guy. And it's not just the hometown thing. It's all the stuff that the Sixers don't have that Lowry would provide from you know, reliable spot up shooting to just like someone who's not gonna wilt when it matters to He's got championship experience, all these intangibles, and then just filling the steady playmaking void that you know, if you're giving all these minutes to shake Milton an entires Maxie and like, you know, those guys are exciting and they have long term value as would a first round pick. But Lowry, to me on the Sixers, it's sort of like the argument someone would have made if we're talking about like twenty eighteen PJ. Tucker going to the Bucks, like, oh my god, he feels every void that they have, right, like that would have been perfect, I feel. You know, Lowry is older, but Lowry to the Sixers always just he just he just gave them what would have given them what they needed. So you probably if I were running the Sixers, you probably could have got a lot out of me for Kyle Lowry, Like you, it would have been hard to not give up everything because I just believe in him so much and I think he fits so Yeah, you could make the list longer of what I would have given up if I were the Sixers to get Lowry. From the Heat's perspective, that's tougher. I think Hero's probably become a little overrated. And but the difference is if I'm the Heat, I'm this is I'm gonna flex again and say I don't have to give you shit because if I want this guy, I'm just gonna fly him down to Miami next summer for this summer, and right I'm gonna sign him. Like that's just that you can't get that the Sixers aren't in that position. The Heat. The Heat have a little bit different, some different Emma. I think so. So probably I would have been a lot stingier with the package I would have offered if I were in Miami. Yeah, and it's even if you don't have capchased like the Sixers, just the reality of knowing Lowry wants probably two years, fifty million, and his next deal, whatever it's going to be, that does have to catch him. The calculations I call the Sixers winners overall, because if you're going to pivot, talk about a hell of a pivot for George Hill. Yeah, you created so you were created a roster spot. In the process of getting George Hill, gave up players you weren't using, and you only gave up three second round picks. I say only, and I know George Hill hasn't played because he has right thumb surgery. George Hill is shooting sixty plus percent on drives this year. They're only five players who have taken as many shots on drives that are matching or exceeding that. He's shooting thirty eight plus percent on threes. That's probably low for him. And he gives you someone who could play off Ben Simmons, someone who can also run some units. Without Ben Simmons. He's not as dynamic as Kyle Lowry off the dribble, that's for sure, but he's still find defensively. And I don't know if this factory and in the six Ers thinking, but maybe you're a little bit more hesitant to go all in without kind of seeing what's going on with Joel Embiad's bone, Bruce, but we still don't really know how much time he's gonna miss. Yeah, he should be back before the playoffs, And maybe the argument is, well, there's an urgency now because Joel is always hurt. This is the season he's been in the MVP discussion like go all in. That you were able to sort of fall into George Hill after that, I think is huge because he's on a reasonable salary next year or you pay him one point three million dollars to go away. And what you've also done is you've saved all these assets still to where if there are other deals that materialize, there are things that you can do. I guess the hard part now is you don't have any real salary fodder. There's still Hills deal, but like you're using, you're gonna lose Danny Green's salary after this season, So I think they're winners. Have they done nothing. I probably would have called them losers just because if you're the Bucks already did it with PJ Tucker, and I think you could call the Bucks winners at the deadline as well for what they did with PJA Tucker. Also, the Nets not really turning Spencer didn Witty into anything. Right now, maybe they're still the favorites to land. You know some players in the buy out market is that we're odod Porter Junior is gonna go because it seems like he'll get brought out. We're still waiting on the drumm and destination that'll probably be out by the time we published this though. But you also got PJ. Tucker from them. But those two teams needed to do something to keep pace with in theory, what's going to be a full strength Brooklyn squad. So I think Philly did really well to get a player like George Hill for what they got him, and it's I don't even view missing out on Lowry as a disappointment because it just feels like they kept their options open without I know, he would have been a substantial upgrade. But now they've given themselves some more long term flexibility or optionality, as opposed to had you gotten Lowery, you would have mortgaged part of the future and been locked into another really expensive player. Yeah, no doubt. I just like my evaluation just threw all that out because I was like, I want Lowery on the Sixers because I think he puts them over the time. And so the related thing is I just had, like, not overthinking it, I had Brooklyn and Milwaukee as winners just because the Sixers didn't get Lowry just for this year, you know, like in terms of, well, that's that's less of a threat now. As as useful as George Hill is, the Sixers are not as threatening as they like potentially could have been. So for those two teams, I think I think they come out, you know, probably pretty good. Even though I was really din Moody was a guy who was very surprised didn't move, were you, I Yeah, I guess I was surprised. I just couldn't find the team. The only team that I found actually that I thought would really want as bird rights was Orlando because they wouldn't have cap space, and I assume they would still want to be good. But clearly they don't, so like that kind of you know, through that all out the window. That's a perfect say I don't want to steer this where you don't want to go. But we had like just who who whose side of the whole trade deadline day? Did you like better? The Bulls or the Magics. I think I like the Magics better. And maybe I'm romanticizing future first round picks here that they got and Chicago protected all of them, so you're not going to end up with the number one pick in the draft any point. It's top four protected the first this year, and then I don't I don't know what the protection is just yet in twenty three, but it was. I think they're both top four, is what I rem so. And look, Wendell Carter Jr. You can some people might view him still as a first round pick. The Bulls clearly didn't. What they did here that I think is slightly risky is by using this summer's cap space. Now they can't renegotiate and extend zach Levine's contract, And people in the bleacher port comments section, we're like, zach Lavine's not a free agent until twenty and twenty two. Who cares? What they could have done. Is In short, he never became a free agent. By giving him a raise next season, it wasn't just an extension. You could actually tack on salary to the final year of his deal. Now you can't do that. Maybe it matters more that you showed him you want to compete, but at this point it seems like unless he just signs an extension, which would surprise me a little bit, you're letting him at the open market. And beyond that, it just feels like Booge is a player who's so good and he's like second or third and made above the break threes this year, just absolutely bonkers. He's not the player who vaults you into contention. They have these two all stars now, and I'm on the zach Lavine bandwagon, but neither he nor Vooge can be the best player on a championship team like they just don't. Those players normally need to be these two way guys, and they're mostly not bigs at this point. So the Bulls are better. I would expect them to be very much in the postseason conversation, and maybe a menu even helps them if he's healthy, just they can use wing defenders too. I just just felt like a process rushed a little bit. I thought the new regime would have had more patience and that we would have seen them more likely to sell to leave. You know. Now he's you know, our tourists and crew of left and imprint on this roster. But it's still like you do all this and then like Larry Markinen is still on the roster. I'm just I'm so confused. I'm just so confused. Dane Tys ended up on the Bulls, Like, how did that happen? By the way, I thought Daniel Tyson was like a useful piece in Boston. Clearly they're just all Robert Williams all the time. Now, No, no, Well they wanted to duck the tax after getting it, yeah him, I mean, well I will because Tristan Thompson is like not played up to snuff, and you know, you have it feels like they knew how shaky that decision making was because they acquired two other bigs. Uh was it Wagner and who's the one I'm missing At this point, it's been a weird trade day. It's been a long day. So we'll get to the Celtics obviously in a second. But this just felt I don't know how where you land on it, but this just felt a little a little rushed, like if it felt like maybe not the right time or it wasn't the right player to do this on. I'm not saying they would have signed someone better in free agency than Booch. I think you can also make a case that Booch has been top thirty this year. He's been so good. It's I just I don't know you right now. You need Patrick Williams and or Kobe White to hit All Star status, and there's a chance that happens. But does that timeline align with zach Lavine and Vouge? At this point, he has two years left on his deal. I don't think the price was unreasonable, and I gave them a bait, So I'm not trying to shoot all over this deal, but I just don't think they were at the point to make this type of an all inish let's phrase it that way. Play. So I the part that concerns me is essentially that what if the Bulls sort of gave up what they gave up. What if they just are basically making a miscalculation about where they are, and what if what they did basically puts them in the position the Magic have been in for the last like half decade or so, where it's, yeah, we're you know, we're gonna win roughly as often as we lose, give or take. Like we might be five or eight games under five hundred one year, we might be right around it the next year, we're going to fight for the eighth seed. And and like that was the problem in Orlando, And that's what I think a lot of people appreciated. I certainly did. Orlando finally just ripped the band aid off. They just that they threw the treadmill out. They're not they're off the treadmill nowt like, and I think everybody had just been clamoring for them to do that for years, right, And Bouchevich is sort of like the central figure, like the symbol of like, here's how you become mediocre as you have this player at this position, with this skill set, as you're most highly paid, you know. And so now the Bulls have signed up for that. I think you can make the case that Lavine is better than him, but they are like weirdly similar in what you said, and that they like it's not a question of are we sure that this is a core that can get us where we need to be. It's like, no, the benefit of the doubt is is really not there because neither of them has demonstrated the ability. Now, Booch like there was some stat that he's just never played with like anybody of any quality, like in his career, Bouchevitch has just been like all by himself on an island, and so Lavine is like a different set up for him. So maybe you know, he's just even better than he's been in Orlando, which is hard to believe with you know, another really high level offensive player. My concern again is just that the Bulls gave up a guy they picked high in the first round, plus two more picks that won't be you know, megastar top four picks but could be another seventh pick or whatever, and they might have just done all that for, you know, instead of being fighting for a playing spot, they're like the sixth seed or something, you know what I mean. Like, I just it's a big jump to make I feel like I'm just this is bad podcasting because I'm just roughly saying what you're saying. But that was my exact concern. It's like objectively getting Buschovich on a deal that declines for a team that needs offensive help, like yeah, boom, great, awesome, makes a lot of sense. Helps. But what if all you're doing is signing up for seasons of five hundred instead of ten games under or twenty games under. I don't know if that's worth it. Yeah, I'd be with you there. Do you think that the magic though, on the flip side, got enough for bouch They get two first founders, a second draft flyer on Wendell Carter Jr. And they got off of a mean news money is basically, and they get this unfolded. They get Porter too, right, which is just coming off the books basically. Yeah. So they free up cap space, which is that's all over the place though, because they did take back Gary Harris. Is you know, they got rid of Fournier, but then they took back Gary Harris. They're gonna have cap space this summer. It's just that that cap space one, they're not at a point where I think they should be using it on anyone who's too good unless it's a restricted free agent. But also they can they'll probably be more valuable to lease out the cap space if there are teams that want to offload money and attach the assets to it. Yeah, no, I think I think you can answer your question. They did give enough because those first and twenty one and twenty three they're gonna convey. And I think there's they're more likely to be in the you know, top fifteen than than past you know, then from sixteen to thirty. Even if the bulls are a little better, they're not going to be so much better that you're getting like the why sixth pick or whatever. I wouldn't think. And I think Carter has some as you know, there's like the idea of like second draft guys, you know Carter. It look Carter is disappointed, but like he's been hurt. He played for Jim Boylan who like kind of ruined him. And we still, you know, he's still theoretically, like theoretically fits the modern NBA like in some ways better than Butch Bitch did, just because he might be able to defend in space. We that's like part of the reason he was drafted. We think he might be able to do that. So as a flyer goes like that's fine, and you like you said, you know, getting more cat flexibility, just changing it up just so it's just the idea of like let's clean house a little bit, I think has a value. Just it's like psychologically, whether you know that should be considered in the package they got from the Bulls, I don't know, but I'm good with it. I mean, nobody else was able to get two firsts for anything Today's I guess Aaron Gordon comes closest, but you still have to take back a bad contract. And because Arja Hampton and at first is basically I would say still two first is because RJ. Hampton is still a rookie, right. I ultimately was okay with the price that Orlando got for Vouch. I was okay with the with the Gordon what they got for him, because you know, Gary Harris can when he's healthy, he can still defend and he used to shoot three as well. That was a thing that that happened. I did not. The trade of theirs that I really just a viscerated was the Evan Fournier deal. That was all it took to get Evan Fournier was cap relief and two seconds. Jeff t Obviously, my whole thing is like if you were the Knicks and this was the asking price you have, you would basically just as much flexibility to work with because you had a little bit less cap space than Boston. But Boston is still sent out a salary sort amounts to the same. You couldn't beat that with a Detroit second. So I'm if that, like that's just the whole nixt thing. I understand. I'm fine with the Knicks not really buying. I'm just saying, if that was the cost for Fournier, the Celtic clearly prioritized we're getting off this money this season because what there were teams that I'm almost positive would have beaten that, but maybe they didn't want to take back any long term money. Yeah that I mean Fournier is I don't know if he's a needle mover for Boston because he's sort of going to do like what Gordon Hayward did, except less on defense and just generally be not as good in everything else. But like that's just two seconds, Like who cares. I don't. I don't understand. It makes me think that because leading into the deadline, there was there was some indication that it might be Gordon and Fournier going to Boston, and you know, well of court classic. Oh the Celtics were close, you know, they almost they almost pulled it off. I wonder if as that fell apart, if the self if Orlando was like, oh, well, we know someone else is gonna want Gordon, what do we do with this guy? Because he's expiring and nobody he's gonna be a free agent and nobody seems interested. I don't know, but that is like a really low return for a guy that could get you, you know, twenty more often than not every night for whatever else were Yeah, look, he's not gonna It doesn't look like he's going to be a part of Boston's closing lineup, whereas Aaron Gordon might have been just do you already have Marcus Smart, Kema Walker, Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum might assume all four of those guys are penciled into the closing unit. You're not putting Tatum or Brown at the five and playing four yer, I would say ninety nine times out of one hundred, if not one hundred times out of one hundred. Still, they just needed that he fills a few voids for them where it's one. They need dependable bodies beyond their top four players and that might even be a stretch at this point, because how reliable is Kema been this season? Parking up like it's he'll get there, He'll be fine. You needed just more wing depth behind Tatum and Brown and Fournier. No nothing special defensively, but he's six seven, and you just you know, they're getting rid of Jeff Tigue like they needed even with Marcus Smart. You need to upgrade the Jeff Teague minutes, just how having a ball handler. And so during stretches where you have Tatum and Kema Walker both on the bench, go ahead and make fourne like your day facto point guard. He can play with Smart and they could trade off whatever you want to do. I like the deal. I just couldn't believe that that's all it took to get him. And that's where you know, I think the magic. Are they winners? I wouldn't call them losers, but that was the deal. I think they were losers in that deal. I'm convinced that they could have gotten more for him. If had they I guess not have prioritized. We need, you know, to just get rid of this money. Yeah, it's hard to I think I agree. There was never going to be a first though, like you were never getting a first for him, So then you're talking about what young player is out there. Yeah, I don't know. We mentioned Gordon a little bit. Do you want to go to Gordon to the Nuggets? I feel like the Nuggets are a pretty big winner. But I do think that, like there's definitely some nuance involved in like is Gordon? How much better is Gordon than Jeremy Grant was last year? And we know how far they made it. There's you know, I think they're a winner, but but I'm curious what your thoughts are on on the Gordon to Denver fit. I would argue they're the biggest winner of the trade deadline. I'm trying to figure out. You know, just look, the Clippers didn't make a great move, The Lakers didn't make a great move. You know, the Blazers that we haven't talked about the Blazers implications norm pal that's probably where we should go next. But like, nothing happened at the top of the West that I think would make you question where Denver stood. And so they improved. They've already top five, top they could still get the top four. They done nothing, and I like Aaron Gordon as a defensive matchup for a Kauai or a Lebron more than I would a Jeremy Grant. I don't think he comes with as reliable three point shooting this season is an outlier. But is it outside the realm of possibility to think that he's going to shoot okay or career high clips on catching shoot threes in a Nicole yok powered offense. Absolutely not. And I like that they went and made this move because I think it might have been fairly easy to talk yourself out of it, because Denver has had a lot of success since Michael Porter Jr. Has been moved into the starting four spot. You look at the data for the Yokich Michael Porter Junior front courts. Those lineups are suspiciously stingy. Opponents are not shooting well from three at all, and they don't get to the rimaton they're shooting well once they get there. That's pretty predictable with those two. And while Michael Porter Junior. I feel like it's been a better help defender this season, that's not like, no, you can't bank on that. And now Aaron Gordon comes in and we've talked about how he shouldn't be used as a three kind of sneakily or subtle like subtlely, understatedly, whatever you want to say. He's improved his ball skills over the past two seasons where he can make these athletic finishes. He's been a better passer, but he's also just not gonna have to do that stuff as much in Denver. So you can use him as a four on offense, but then he is your four on defense, like him and Michael Porter Junior are so interchangeable. And I know they got JaVale McGee. That was another nice move that they made. Ye, So, but you could go smaller at the five now if you want, with Gordon at the five. I don't think that they'll do that much because Yokich is playing, you know, let's say thirty five minutes a game. Plus you're gonna play actual backup centers, whether it's Green or mill Set, McGhee, whatever they you know, Zeke Naji. So I there's more optionality there. And the other thing is is you didn't trade Will Barton here. You traded Gary Harris, who makes more money, is shorter, not as long, and a better defender. But just like he wasn't going to go up against the biggest wings, and you have like enough guard depth because of Will Barton and Facundo Compazo and Monte Morris and Jamal Murray. Clearly. Also the thing I did not realize. Did you know Aaron Gordon is younger than Gary Harris and he's also cheaper because Gary Harris makes so much money and the contracts just a line perfectly looking at the length. Yeah, no, I think this is gonna be so to me, like the narrative with Gordon for several years has been about He's constantly it seems like whether it's him or it's us saying like we want to see more growth, we want to see more playmaking, we want to see better three point shooting, we want to see him as a pick and roll all handler, like all this stuff. When I think I think this is going to be a good test with Denver of what if Aaron Gordon only did the stuff that he's already really good at and kind of like trimm the fat, right, Because like if I have Yokichen Murray, I don't think I want Aaron Gordon doing a whole lot with the ball unless he's cutting and catching the ball, and dunking, hitting a spot up three, like attacking the second side when the ball gets swung to him. Like I don't need him trying to utilize the skills that he's developed like as his career has gone on. I want him to just defend like crazy be athletic, play up a position instead of down, you know, more often. And so this, to me is going to be a test of if all this all the fat in his game was like him trying to do that and wanting to do that, or if it was Orlando saying like, you gotta do this, because in Denver he will not be asked to do a lot of the things that he's not great at or has had to work really hard to be come okay at. So there's a chance that we get like optimized Gordon. I hope we get optimized Gordon because then, like there's no question that the Nuggets are getting just this like a supercharged version of what Jeremy Grant was. Like it's hard to compare him to this year is Jeremy Grant because that this he turned into a different version of himself. But the guy that was on the roster last year that really mattered in the playoffs and in the bubble. Gordon could be that and more as long as you know he sort of appreciates that, like Yokich is the fulcrum and Murray is the second guy that's going to be doing stuff, and even will Barton might be better to be making decisions. I don't know, but I like the idea of Gordon just focus, just playing to his strengths all the time. And if that's how it goes, then Denver gets really scary. But that's really never been how it's gone, so I'm I'm intrigued to see if that's possible, you know, because some players, some guys, doesn't matter where they are, they want to play a certain way. I don't know if that's true of Gordon, but I think we'll find out. They're closing line up now just seems to make so much sense with Gordon, Porter, Yokich and Murray, and then I guess Barton would be the fifth. If you want to go really big and just say, hey, we're gonna play Porter at the three, at slash two, Gordon at the on the wings, and just play a Millsapper ja Michael Green. I don't know which team would compel you to do that necessarily, but they are those four guys even to make so much sense together. And then even look if you throw Will Barton and they're like that five men unit is going to destroy. What do you think they do? Let's say they get Utah in, Like, who's guarding Donovan Mitchell because that was Harris, you know, when he was healthy last year. Like, I do think that they're a little thin. And they don't have Tory Craig anymore either. I mean not that that's news because he's been gone all year, but they don't have the guy that's gonna wrangle. You know, you're you're small. They the bigger wings. I don't. I think Gordon's fine, but I don't know if you're gonna put him on. You're scoring, You're scoring like two slash three, and I don't know what the Nuggets do with that. That's not really I don't expect you to have an answer, but it's more of a concern. Now. Yeah, I guess at this point you have to. I mean, Jamal Murray has show that he can guard up like guard better. He defended I wouldn't say outstanding, but he played well on defense in the bubble. You have Monte Morris, you have you have PJ Dozier too, you know, is that something that you look at maybe you know, but that that's a great You have Gary Clark, Now maybe that's maybe it's him different Gary. All the Gary's got traded today? Did you see that every guy in the league named Gary tough day for Gary's uh? Only there's only three Garys in the league, which seems at once high and incredibly low. That's like I didn't even think of really that in the context. And I think I saw a stat that Gordon has defended like a ton of smaller players this year too. But still you don't want him. He's he's not your Donovan Mitchell defender. So that's a that's a great question. Some people might argue you don't need to defend Donovan Mitchell, but yeah, maybe not. H What do you think about Portland? We did already talk about the Gary trench and your Powell stuff, but I do think they made their decision might be more more interesting than the raptors to me, Well, I mean it seems like it seems like they're valuing Powell's bird rights right because and so clearly they think he's I mean, he got off of Hood's money, which was not guaranteed next year though, so I don't know how much that really matters. I guess I don't. I guess if I like this for Toronto, kind of across the board, I have to not like it for the Blazers, even if, even if, like with McCollum and Lillard healthy Trent being a sort of smallish sure guard. I don't know if that's really fair, But he's not a big wing and he's just a catch and shoot guy. Like I don't know how many opportunities there were going to be for all three of those guys to play together. I guess it's easier to imagine Powell with two small guards, because like that's what he did in Toronto with Flowery and Van Vliet, and that worked, you know, fairly well for a fairly long time. I guess I just don't like Powell as much as Trent when you factor in the cost, the age, you know, all the peripheral stuff, like on the court. I think he can help them because they do need someone that can attack the basket, who's got a little more length. But but I don't know, it's it's a strange move to me, I have more long term than short term, because I guess I can see the thinking behind wanting Powell on the wing more than Trent. But but I don't know even that's kind of a close question just for this year. To me, it feels like an all in play for this year and maybe an admittance that they didn't want to pay anybody this summer because Gary Trent Junior was going to be cheaper. And I don't see, you know, if the thought processes, you don't think they wanted to invest as much in the back court. Norm Powell poses you with the same dilemma, only more so if he's if the market for him is really going to end up being between eighteen and twenty two million dollars a year, you know, maybe it tapers off, but he's going to be he should be more expensive than Gary Trent Junior. And like you pointed out, and we already pointed out with the Raptors, there's that age difference. I do think he's better for you this season because he is a little more dynamic on offense. Neither of them are just these fantastic passers. I guess he's you said Trent might be the better defender. I think I'm with you, but I don't know. Like Powell's longer, it's probably more inconsistent. I just I don't know that. I I saw some people think that maybe this like portends something that happens with CJ McCollum over the offseason, that this sort of flames out. I suppose that's an interesting thing way to look at it. I just don't I don't see it. I think there's a chance this makes them better on offense, which I'm not sure if that's where they needed to improve. And by that I mean they didn't need to improve on offense if they believe CJ McCollum and Damian Lillard are going to be healthy. I don't know. It feels like a lateral move on defense. Maybe it's a slight upgrade because Powell does feel more physical than G TJ. But I don't know that it moves the needle enough to justify the all in play. At the same time, if you didn't want to play Gary Trent Junior, you know, maybe you're just looking at what he's done as an outlier and what he's what's happened over the past month and a half or whatever it's been is is more you know, in tune with his normal then I sort of you know, Rodney Hood wasn't doing much for you anyway, trying to take a stab in the dark here. I I've thought about this trade. I've written about this trade. I still just don't necessarily understand it from the Blazer's perspective, even though I don't think that they're worse because of it. It's not it's a weird trade to call lateral because there are just very different players, but it just yeah, I agree, I just in the end, it's kind of I'm just surprised, like it did. I'm surprised that, you know, you would think that if Powell were going somewhere would be a team with like a just a glaring void, you know in the scoring guard slash wing spot. And like, I mean, I don't know, I guess if you yeah, I don't know, We're just gonna go and sort they'll say, like, huh, that's a weird trade. So we're not getting very far on this one. I think we agree. What do you think about Boston where the Evan Fournier one was a no brainer? But were they winners in the end when they end up giving away the best player in a three team trade with the Wizards and the Bulls don't get I would say when you look at the players they got back, they didn't get the second best player back, that's Daniel Gafford. They didn't get the third best player back, that was Troy Brown Junior. They probably got the fourth best player back in Moe Wagner. But Moe Wagner and Luke Cornette and you're sending out Daniel Tye and Javonte Green. It was to duck to tax. I don't It doesn't make them losers overall. They're probably a winner just because they got a really good player in Evan Fournier for virtually nothing. I'm just curious as to what I understand the tax implications too, that you'd rather have the clock is going to tick next season when you have Tatum and Brown both on their maxes, kick in Kembas still on his max. I understand it. This would be the year to duck it, especially if you do plan on considering to pay Fournier. It's just like you traded me. Is Robert William's better than Daniel Tye right now? I mean, he's the one that missed the game tying three point attempt the other night, which is to say against they playing the was that the Nets know as the Bucks. They're playing the Bucks, Yeah, which means that he was on the floor in French time, he was the big which which is often the case and was always the case in the Celtics playoff run last year. Like I remember, you know, I happened to just be covering a lot of those games and Tye really mattered. But you know, against the heat, you know, there aren't a lot of guys that sort of have the physical profile to match up with with Autobio, but you know, Tye similarly undersized, similarly mobile. He's not in Autubio's league, but it was like he you know, I remember thinking like this is the future of the center position. We're gonna have a bunch of six to eight, six nine guys that can stretch the four a little bit and you know, pass capably and do all kinds of stuff. I was just really I think in terms of just pure shock the idea and maybe I'm just totally way too in the bag for Tys, but like I was alone away that that's the guy they had. They moved to duct the tacks, Like I just I thought he meant meant more to that team. I guess, I guess maybe not, But I think ultimately this I am a little disappointed in what ended up happening with the Celtics overall, just because that trade exception was just this big, shining, you know, path to to getting us, you know, getting a star, and maybe like we never should have thought that was realistic, but I remember thinking like, well, that's a way for them to get Buchevich if they do something else, or that's a way to get this you know, you name it, Like Fourtyer was not someone I would Aaron Gordon would have been higher on the list obviously to use that on. I think it does matter that they've got something like eleven million of that that they can use up to up through this off season before it expires. But you can't if you'd pull if you had pulled Celtics fans, you know, when the trade exception was created and you know, listed ten guys and Fourtyer was one of them. Like he's not in the top five that you would have wanted or that was realistically gettable, Like he's got that has to register as a disappointment. I think that that's who you ended up getting, even if he is a good player and they gave up nothing to get him with those picks, But like, man, that's it. That was my That was my thought with that, is that that's really what they're going to use the trade exception on after we spent months wondering. You probably wanted someone who could be a part of your closing lineup, but that would you know, or Sean Holmes. I don't know if Harrison Barnes would have worked. You definitely could play him at the five or in smaller lineups more so than Evan Fournier Aaron Gordon. Obviously, that seemed like the that felt like it was gonna be the peak that they could hit leading into the trade deadline, and it kind of felt like the no brainer. But I don't know, you know, does this mean that they preferred Evan Fournier to Aaron Gordon or that they just didn't want a pony up for Aaron Gordon because part of the you know, the trade with the Nuggets. Yeah, they gave up RJ. Hampton and that first round pick was the appeal that it was basically those two first but like it was also compensation for your taking on Gary's Harris's money. You could taken in Gordon just like you took in Evan Fournier, and you know, maybe you just didn't have that same intriguing young player. Maybe Boston wasn't willing to do Peyton Pritchard in a Aaron Gordon deal that seems like it would have. Aaron Naismith doesn't feel like he has that same sort of cache. Romeo Langford because he's barely played and been hurt so much, definitely doesn't have that cache. They're winners to me just because I I'm fine if you're If you would have told me that Evan Fournier is the player they got with part of their trade exception, I would have been fine with that from day one. The real is that, yeah, I like, you don't get stars with trade exceptions unless you're gonna put more assets in the They didn't get Aaron Gordon probably because they weren't willing to pony up for Aaron Gordon. And if you weren't going to pony up for Aaron Gordon, who are you ponying up for? Why didn't they use it on Rudy Gobert dan Well. First of all, why didn't they just take Miles Turner and Doug McDermott back for McDermott through Fournier. They wanted Victor Oladipo as well. Apparently was like the rumor they could have had. I think it was heard the Indianapolis Star. I hope I'm not missing the ballot here that it was Hayward, sorry, McDermott a first and Turner. That is, you know, Evan Fournier as opposed to like, no that you want, you want that deal and now you look at it, you could look you can frame it this way too. They lost Kyrie Irving Al Horford and Gordon Hayward and they turned those three because the two of those guys turned in nothing. Turn it. Evan Fournier is the only type of value they of mine from the departures of those three to this point. That doesn't sound great, does it. Like that's a you know, a less than ideal situation and you're still a good You're still a good team with a bright future, which makes it incredibly frustrating to try to evaluate Danny Ainge like I hate I hate that, Like I still don't know if he's good or not. I think he is, but like, man, the Misses are really piling up. The last actual trade slash teams I wanted to talk about before asking about just a couple of buyout candidates Hawks Clippers. The deal was the Hawks received Lou Williams a twenty twenty three second via Portlands, a twenty twenty seven second that'll be all his own and cash, and they sent the Clippers Rondo, who's making seven point five million this year and next, guaranteed, fully guaranteed. Do you have a question? That is my question that the deal? Who is? This is pretty clearly what the fuck moment on the Clippers part right, Well, yeah, except everybody in the league, coaches, players, Like I'm looking on Twitter right now and Terrence Mann just pulled out a card that he's had in his wallet of re Gen Rondo since he was in middle school. So like, Rondo is just like revered because it's everything he was good. It's too easy, but accurate. Yeah, he's revered. And like the playoff Rondo thing, I guess it finally was a thing last year. Draymond Green, I think, tweeted like, of course Draymond loves him because guys that fancy themselves as like savants in terms of like understanding the game, all like each other and they value that skill set. But yeah, like the money's crazy. The idea that like, oh, the Clippers have their point guard now, like that that whole is filled is like insane to me, because you know, Rondo is just outside of a handful of isolated stretches. It's just not been good for what seven eight years, Like, I mean, it's been a really long time. I think the best thing you could say for the Clips is that, and it's hard to get there, is that, like Lou Williams was just not going to be on the floor to close games and the ones that matter, he would be exploitable. He's been exploitable by good opposing offenses in the playoffs and his scoring just is a luxury and we don't need it. But like he clearly is gonna help the Hawks, I think, and Rondo, I'm gonna need to see it. I'm gonna need to see that he actually improves the Clippers, because I just I'm very skeptical. And yeah, the guaranteed money next year is wild. I don't understand why they had to be If you would have just done Lou Williams or Ray John Rondo. I still wouldn't have liked it, but it's like, Okay, Rondo was valuable to what the Lakers did during the playoffs last year. Maybe he gives you more point guard defense than the playoffs, which will help. And he is someone that you can manage the game through during crunch time. But the Clippers have the best offense in the NBA overall, I find it hard to believe that they're going to be you know, their crunch time offense has already started parking up. It's been the defense that's the problem. I don't know that Rondo helps you on a consistent enough basis there Again, maybe this all changes in the regular season, and I will say, we know he's improved as a shooter at this point that people say that he can't shoot. You know, he's not hitting off the dribble threes, their ultra wide open threes, I would call them. But they're going in it. You know, lee average Clipper better. Just the asset equity it took. And people say, well, why does it matter. The Clippers are trying to be good now, Well it matters because I at least they didn't give up the Detroit seconds, That's what you could say, and so those are assets you can use and other things to make happen. I would say the bigger deal is that now because you have Rondo's salary on your books for next season. Just looking at the early projections, it looks like it'll be impossible for them to spend the non taxpayers mid level exception. And I don't care about them paying the tax but that the full mL E is going to get you a better player than the minimale most like, yeah, well, it's a perfect example, like they're not getting Ibaka for the mini there, you know, Like that's just there is a huge difference between them, even if it's just the player and their representation being like, it looks a little better on us if we want to get that full mL E just as opposed to like now we're being valued as the minimale player going forward, Like that actually matters, and the Hawks look to get assets for Rondo, who was clearly their worst deal signed this season. I guess you can argue it was. People might argue it was. They might argue, as any one of their free agent sign needs to be honest with you and giving the injuries. Gallow's parking up, but he's making a ton of money. Chris dun hasn't played yet, but Rondo was the most puzzling one because they already had done on the books at that point. And the minutes without Trey Young have still been a disaster this year. So I know that Lou Williams and there's noise in there because of the injury injuries to our Datavis vers a ton of time. Gallow missed some time, so you have not been at full strength during the Trey less minutes. But Lou Williams is going to help you there, even though it's falivating doesn't really work in the playoffs. So and look, you're just off of Rondo's money now and with John Collins' contract coming up, or you're gonna have to punty up for him. I do you know the reality of that matters as well? Very quickly, what did you think about Dallas getting JJ Reddick? I think it's so. I think he hasn't looked good generally speaking this year, which is like what happens when you've been around for as long as he has. You know, I think it's good to put as much shooting around Luca as possible. I think this is them, this is the mouse maybe recognizing that like we kind of missed Seth Curry a little bit. But I that said, I think, you know, getting Richardson and sort of putting better defenders around Luca also makes sense. I just am not. I don't know how much Reddick's gonna matter in the games that Dallas really needs to be winning in the playoffs against good defenses. Like in theory, if Reddick were, you know, as the same player he's been what he was two three, four years ago, or like really prime sixers Reddick, that that's a big deal because there's your sort of secondary source of offense if you can get a handoff game with him and a big going But I just, yeah, I don't know clearly, even even Melly, like Melly theoretically is a shooter, he's in that deal too. It seems like, yeah, very theoretically. I remember I sort of bought him when I like the first handful of games I saw him play when he came over. But that was the height of my Melly fandom, I think. But yeah, I think they just needed shooting, and like, look, if if you're trying to get shooting, and you got to expiring money or whatever to get rid of Reddick's a good way to go, you know. And he's still functional shooting, like hit him off balance. Three's off the dribble. The other thing he isn't. The last time he has ranked outside the ninety fifth percentile of scoring efficiency out of the pick and roll was twenty sixteen twenty seventeen. So it's not a huge part of his game, but it's generally accounted for between nine and twelve percent of his possessions. There's just another option there. So and for two players you in a second, you know, just the players you weren't in a one dude and James Johnson that you just weren't going to use. And I think James Johnson could potentially help the Pelicans. Play him next to Zion Zion up front might be an interesting thing to look at. So I'm pretty much in agreement as well. We haven't disagreed enough on this podcast, Bad Bad Radio or whatever it would be called. Can you do some Can I give you some rapid fire buyout candidates and you can tell me whether you think they're brought out or not. And if you say yes, I'm gonna ask you for your best potential destination for them. I'm ready. I think the top one now Otto Porter. I was not expecting you to start with Auto Porter. He will. He will be bought out because it's more fun to go with the exercise that way. And he is going to sign with Brooklyn. Oh full circle. So they'll have picked up Tyler Johnson Alan krab And out of Porter after giving them all ridiculous offer sheets that were matched. That's how Brooklyn does it. I would agree with you on him getting bought out. I could maybe see him like winding up in a I guess Brooklyn makes too much sense, but I'm trying. I just couldn't think of anybody else. So that's where we are. Yeah, and next up would be Kelly Olynock now a Houston Rocket. H I don't think they'll buy him out because the Rockets clearly don't like paying any more any money money for things that they Well, I don't know, why are you starting with Kelly olynk and Auto porterer? Can my answer be like, I don't care, they will not him out. Do you think he's gonna get bought out? I have no idea if he's gonna give money back him for Tea is gonna pounce at it. So yeah, I guess that's true. He's gonna end up back in Boston. That's how That's how they're going to get their you know, upgrade, their actual big man rotation after losing Tice is get Kelly and link back. He was already brought out, just as we know LaMarcus Aldridge and everyone knows he's going to the Spurs, Drummond was brought out. Where do you think Drummond is gonna end up? Seems like the Lakers, right that the Lakers are going to get somebody and Drummond feels like sort of the highest profile guy, which is whether that's deserved or not. I feel like the Lakers are going to be in the end up with him. People have floated that maybe the Knicks, with their cap space, would give him a multi year deal. Now that's insane. Why why I would lose faith in like all of the things that they've done well this year. If that happened, why do you want him? The thought process would be that you don't want to pay Mitchell Robinson, but I don't want to pay Andre Drummond. If I'm rather pay you know who else doesn't want to pay Andre Drummond. Everybody Like he got traded for basically nothing to the Calves, and then the Calves couldn't get nothing to trade him, so his value went from nothing to less than nothing. Like there's just like there's no scenario where like should Drummond make I don't know if you read Chris Herring, who everything he does is good, but he just wrote a thing for SI about, you know, the total illusory value of a guy that gets a whole bunch of rebounds in the modern game, which is what Drummond is. And it's just like, I would not be surprised if Drummond really struggled to get an mL, like to get the mL next year. I just I just don't I don't know what team values fifteen boards of game when it comes with just horrendous offensive efficiency and no demonstrated ability to like help even terrible teams be decent. Like I just I don't know. I don't know. So the Lakers on the minimum, great, that's totally different, like all the calculus changes if you get him on the buyout market for the least possible money, but just as a as an asset like his value. I think going forward is just I mean, it's through the floor. I don't I don't know what it is. If the Knicks were going to use their cap space on someone right now in multi year contract, I'd rather see them take a flyer on auto porter, just because they don't have a ton of two way wings. They have a lot of just one position or one way players, where you know, Alec Burks is a two and Julius Randall is a four, although he's played some good minutes to five this year, but they have Reggie Bullock is a two way wing. You could probably throw RJ. Barrett in there. He's close to it. But the idea of out of order someone else who could maybe space the floor if he's healthy and give you some bigger wing minutes. Georgie Jang I cannot believe he wasn't traded, first of all, just as like as perfect salary filler and as a big who can block shots and threes, Like I'm really surprised there wasn't. I guess his salary is prohibitive, but no, I think I think they may hang on to him because let's go, let's get real weird and say, what if you could sign and trade him in the off season. What if that's trading. I don't know nobody. I don't think he's gonna get bought out. I think, like, yeah, I thought he was gonna get traded. I totally hadn't thought about him, but he I should have put him away a top of my list of guys. I was surprised to not get moved. I could see maybe Toronto if he does get bought out, but I don't have a feel for it because the Grizzlies are kind of good. So do you want to get rid of Jay? Yeah? Uh, let's think Okay, Wayne Ellington maybe not a buyout situation. Probably just gets waived because he's on the minimum. I mean he's like where where where would he not fit? You know? Like, who what? What? Contending team just needs someone who can shoot on the move. I'm trying to think, like I would say the Lakers, but their guys don't really shoot on the move when Lebron is healthy. Yeah, I think, like, I don't know, Milwaukee, they are they even gonna have a roster spot. I don't even know. I think they can free up one now pretty easily. Did they signed somebody to attend day contract, right, I'll look really quickly. But that's if he went back to Miami. That's where he like became Wayne Ellington. Remember when he had that season where all he did was shoot and possibly contested threes that at a dead sprint, was really good at it. Yeah so, and I oh, the Bucks do have a roster spot right now, so he can go to Milwaukee as well. Here's one that I'm more interested than other people. I think Austin Rivers now of the Oklahoma City Thunder. That feels like a Lakers to me. I'm trying to think of someone else that needs a clear like third or fourth guard that you could sort of give the ball to against backups and get something decent, get some decent defense, get some decent catch and shoot through, get some decent drive and shoot a floater type of thing. Yeah, I don't know. I'm the Lakers are going to get like one or two of these guys, and Rivers feels like I'd be curious to see him. I agree with the Lakers. I'd be curious to see him on the Warriors. Interesting. I think I think their roster situation certainly they could use all the help they can get offensively. I think what they're going to do because they traded Want Brad Wanamaker and Marquis christopherd for zero because they wanted to get their tax bill down as much as they could. And I think the plan is probably going to be Nico Mannion and want Toscano Anderson sort of get bumped up from their what's I don't know, I don't know what you call it now, but two way status basically, But yeah, I don't know, man, we didn't really talk about the Warriors. Kind of disappointing they didn't do something, because now it's like, if you don't resign Kelly Ubre at a market rate, you've lost that salary slot. And I don't think you want to sign Kelly Ubre at the market rate. So the Warriors might be losers too, because now they're really over a girl with a guy I'm not sure they're in love with or are they winners because now all of a sudden, we were saying, well, you just see what you can get for Wiseman and or the Mini Pick, But now it's like, well, what doors do they open by having Wiseman, the Mini Pick and their own pick this year, which is clearly staying in Golden State. There's a world in which they end up with two top seven picks in this year. There is absolutely no I mean, they we've talked about this before. It is a it is a bummer. I was gonna say travesty, but that's too strong. It's a bummer that this is going to be a wasted year of Curry's prime. They're not They're not a title contender, they're not close to that. But like, there wasn't a move out there. I think we talked about this in conjunction with like should they trade everything for Beal? And like even then I think I said, I don't feel like there's a single move out there that puts them in the like bracket of the league where they want to be. And certainly that that was clear now or that is clear now. Yeah, I don't know. It's a weird year for them. It's it's kind of strange when they're just giving giving players away in the middle of the season because they're trying to get their tax bill down and are sort of admitting that, like this is a development second half of the season now instead of really going for it. This name is a little bit author because he has a team option. But Avery Bradley in Houston, I can't imagine he's gonna Why if he stays in Houston, he's probably never gonna play. It'll be one of those like he's on the roster but he's not doing anything. Let's see who could use Avery Bradley? Oh who do who are we just saying? Who guards Donovan Mitchell? Maybe Denver stick him on Denver. They need, they need a guy you can you can put on the ball. And I would I would think he doesn't you know, I would think he could get the basically miniml E money again, so that getting you know, passing on the team option for now at five point nine million wouldn't be a big deal on his part. That's Denver is a good one one. I like that one. Uh let's see one or two more names here before I get you out of here? Or is there's really no one else in consequence? Ken Birch in Orlando, the thought process being just clear the deck now for Mobamba and Wendell Carter Jr. You've already decided that you're rebuilding, really lean into it. But I guess is he's just too cheap, too value I think, yeah, I think he's too cheap. And I think, like, because he's under contract next year too, right, he's he's free agent. Okay, Well, then I was gonna say, like, are we sure Mobamba is someone that they want to rely on. I think he's too cheap. I don't think he's you know, he's another guy I thought that might that might get traded just because he sort of theoretically could help. You know, a handful of teams as a as a as a second stringer. The one that stands out to me is just because they don't have bird rights on him, and I assume he'll leave after this season. Sterling Brown. I was surprised that the Rockets couldn't get a second round pick for him. And Daniel House was the other guy. I don't they won't buy him out, he's another year let this contract. But it was like, why is he still there? I guess he's so cheap it doesn't matter. But I thought Sterling Brown was someone they could have moved for a second round pick. Just shooting well from three, playing good defense. I feel like he would be in very much demand Denver for Sterling Brown. There you go, who's gonna defend Donovan Mitchell. They gotta find I think increasingly the more I think about it. They got to find somebody for this minute. But they should just avoid the jazz and they don't have to worry about it. Hassan Whiteside with the Kings, why are you are you trolling me? Just there are teams that want a big man? Yeah, I mean, and he was available to be signed for the minimum salary of this past off season and he did do that, and any team could have done that. I don't know who. I don't know. I don't know who wants because if you're theoretically like I'm just shipping on all of your hypotheticals, which is a terrible way to do this exercise. But like, if you're in the buyout market, you're probably thinking, like, we need a guy. First of all, we're a tractive destination and that's because we're a winning team when we need a guy who's gonna matter in the playoffs, and like Whiteside is none of those things. So I don't know. I guess they could buy him out, but like, what's what's the point. Also, the Kings seemed to think that they're they're they're in win now mode still, so maybe he matters. I didn't mind. I think I already says I didn't mind, except for the King's actually giving up value for redacted. I didn't mind what they did. I liked the lone right there, and they'll have to figure out just figure out the chron home situation later. And that's maybe we didn't talk about the Rockets. Is the team where it's like, what did you? And we'll wrap up there By the way, you're laughing at my buyout candidates? You left it Otto Porter and Georgi Jang. Who is the most impactful buyout candidate? Then that you were laughing? Oh no, I was laughing because I just I thought you were going to start at like the top of the list or so, I don't know Auto Porters the top of the list. Who's who's above them? I don't know. I guess I under over underestimated the buyout market. Who are we talking about? Yeah? Is Drew Drew Holiday gonna get brought out? Where is he? The final final thing is just the Rockets. What are your impressions of how this I guess it's the victor of Ladipo situation ends. But you could even say about there. I mean, they traded PJ. Tucker at the trade deadline basically as well. It's bleak. I just think, can you think of another franchise whose outlook is is sort of like more ominous than Houston right now? And I mean I know that like they you know, they have a fair number of draft assets and all this other stuff, but like every move, not every some of the many of the moves that they've made are just like it just reeks of ownership kind of I don't know, just just prioritizing, and its prioritizing like we need to cut costs and this is gonna suck, and I's just how it's gonna be, Like I just I mean to really walk away from just just say just everybody's already said this, but like they really did pick al Adipo over Lavert, and to some extent, I think Jared Allen like that they could have just at least had Harris Lavert. And it seemed like the reason that they picked Aladipo, I don't know what the reason was, and they did, it's reportedly try to keep him because they offered him that extension that he turned down. You don't think they'd like that he turned it down, that he was going to turn it down. They actually didn't want to pay him twenty two point five million dollars a year. Maybe, so maybe that was just pr spin. I don't know. It's just really bad. Like when you look at the series of transactions from Stemming starting with the Harden trade, like it's rough. They like don't have a body really of any consequence from that trade. They got a bunch of future picks. I will say that when we did that fake GM project for Bleacher Report and I and the Kings, I got at least one unprotected future pick first rounder from the Rockets. And I knew at the time Dan that that was a brilliant move. Everybody said I was an idiot. So I just want to be recognized now for my foresight, because I felt very strongly that the Rockets were a sinking ship and they're underwater now. So everyone they can respond, you know, when you post this podcast like I just and I'm sure everyone's gonna listen to the very end, so they're all they're all going to hear this. I just want to be recognized for my genius. You have been vindicated. Just someone who knew I was wasn't appreciated during their time unfortunately, and I'm mostly with you on the rockets. I saw some people spend it at the only reason you get Oladipo in that situation, and it was they basically chose Caris Lavert between Caros Lavert in the second round pick and Victor Oladipo, so they gave up Cais Verton secon round picks r Killadipo. In my eyes, the only reason to make that deal is because you think you can move Victor Oladipo for more than Lavert and second round pick, whether it's now or whether it's down the line after you trade him, resign him. Excuse me, I don't buy into the notion that. I mean, maybe they were thinking this way, but if they were, that is fucking stupid. But this is not a cap space situation where Okay, great, yeah, you turned Victor Oladipo into cap space then, because that's basically what you did. If you're not going to bring back Avery Bradley, if you're not going to keep Kelly Olenick, that pick swap is not it's not a pick, it's a pig swap that's never going to be used. If Miami. If that pick swap conveys something is terribly wrong in Miami, that is just so it's and with Carras Lavert, my argument would be over the summer, looking at a free agent market that had already deteriorated by that point, knowing they were going to be teams with cap space. Am I wrong to say that you could have traded Caris Lavert into a team's cap space while also netting an asset in return if you ended up wanting cap space yourself. No, I think that's absolutely plausible. So I'm going to give the Rockets the benefit of the doubt and say that they're not that you know, and I'm gonna I'll put that on film of Furtida. I'm not gonna put that on Raphael Stone. I'm like, you're not. They can't be that stupid. This wasn't a cap space play. I think it was a gamble that probably blew up in their faces. So I commend them for moving him rather than holding onto him and either letting him walk for nothing or being tempted to resign him if he wasn't playing that well. But the the decision in real time, just because Lavert gave you so much more optionality because he was younger, maybe he had the lower peak, but maybe definitely he's not making an All NBA team. That's that's no, you're right, you're right, yeah, so that it's but he was under contract for another two years at under thirty seven million in total, so it was you know, he's not going to ruin your tank if that's what you were trying to do. So I just the decision looked bad in real time and it looks even worse now. Yep. Yeah, it's rough. It's I think it's gonna get real rough in Houston. Like Steven Silas man, that guy you see that video where he was just broken in the postgame presser. No, but it's been that's that's been the vibe for like months. They I forget what the question was, but it was while they had lost their twentieth game in a row, and he was basically asked, do these losses start away on you? There was just a like a fifteen to twenty second pause, and like, I don't know if he was trying to compose himself. I'm not criticizing or making fun of him. I would be in fucking tears if I signed on a coach a team that had James Harden and even Russell Westbrook at that point, and it turned into into this, into what it has become now. So I'm not if that's what was happening. You know, I totally feel for him. It took him fifteen seconds twenty seconds answer and he was just like yes, and he sounded so broken, defeated, disgusted. I felt really bad for him. Yeah, it sucks that he's been such a lifer and such like has that's has been in league for so long, and this is the first head coaching job he gets, and it's just an absolute nightmare till that. I will say, like till him for you don't feel like doesn't make his isn't talked about as much right now. I don't, you know, I don't know what to necessarily think of Raphael Stone. I think he was dealted, you know, he inherited not the best yet. I mean, Daryl Morey was like, I'm surprised Drey didn't extend PJ. Tucker before he left starting Gift. But yeah, I this, I don't know how you have faith in this organization? There Where are they headed? Christian Wood is the loan right spot, DeShawn Tate and then these picks which now you have to trust them to draft. Well not good, No, it's not. This podcast was good, I thought though, Grant, thank you for giving me almost ninety minutes of your time. It was a throwback podcast. We've been at an hour or less the past few times. If you guys are not following Grant on Twitter, already remedy that immediately. He will tweet like sometimes up to six or seven times a month. It's the volume is really just we're talking PJ. Tucker getting up shots on offense volume. That's a selling point, by the way, because I don't want to I don't want to innundate your feed. That's you don't want that. You don't want that tweeter in your feed. You want who you remember, like you follow that's just probably like oh Grant, like hats up? Or you want to get guy. You want to get the notifications without actually having notifications turned on, because I get Grant Hughes tweeted for the first time in a while. That's my phone, but he's at GT underscore. Hughes on Twitter does a fantastic job covering the NBA for Bleacher Report. Grant. Thank you so much for this. I mean you know by now that you'll be back on soon, so thank you in advance for all your future appearances. My pleasure, Sugar, Ray, Leonard, Roberto Duran, Marvelous, Marvin Hagler, and Thomas Hearns. Legends whose four way rivalry define one of the greatest errors in boxing history, relive their decade of dominance in the new Showtime Sports documentary The Kings, a four parts series premiering Sunday, June sixth, only on Showtime