WEBVTT

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Welcome back to the Path within Julia, I'm Robin, I'm Jules, and

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I'm Ashley. Let's dive right into
this week's case. November sixth, nineteen

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seventy six, Rome, New York, fifty nine year old Stanley Grisick and

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his wife Esther are attacked in their
home by two masked intruders who tie Esther

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up, ransacked the place, and
murder Stanley. Even though the original autopsy

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report claims that Stanley was stabbed to
death, his son finds a shelfycing inside

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the house, and an exhumation of
Stanley's body reveals that he was shot.

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Over a decade later, a new
investigation uncovers evidence that the two perpetrators were

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hired to break into Stanley's house and
that his death may have been connected to

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illegal activities involving his deceased brother,
But no one has ever brought to justice

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for the crime. After that,
the path went chilly. So today we'll

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be profiling a very odd case which
was featured on UNSAWD Mysteries, the nineteen

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seventy six murder of Stanley Griesick.
I actually consider this to be one of

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the more underrated segments from unsawd mysteries, as the case has never really gotten

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a lot of discussion, but it's
definitely a very strange story. It involves

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the death of a man named Stanley
Griesick, who was murdered by two mass

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men during a home invasion. They
spent a great deal of time ransackting the

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place, but no one knows what
they were looking for or if they actually

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managed to find it. This is
a pretty convoluted case involving allegations of a

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police cover up and illegal activity at
a local bar, and the biggest mystery

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is the motive for why this crime
took place. By all accounts, Stanley

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was a very honest, law abiding
individual who seemed like the last person you'd

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expect to be caught up in something
like this, But it's possible he was

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targeted because as recently deceased brother had
been involved in something shady. So we're

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going to explore this entire story and
try and figure out the most logical explanation

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for what might have happened here.
This is really interesting from the get go

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because you have Stanley and his wife
who were home when this home invasion happens,

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and Stanley's the one who's killed.
It's shocking to me that if they

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really were out for revenge, if
they were out to find something, or

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if they had been hired hands,
that they would actually allow his wife to

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live or to not verify that she
was deceased. So that alone is a

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very interesting fact to me. And
poor Stanley. I mean, Stanley's this

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guy who everyone says, look,
you would never imagine him being in any

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kind of criminal activity, but then
you know that his brother is. I'm

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looking forward to hearing more about what
his brother could have been involved in.

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We are in New York, so
I'm wondering, is it possibly anything organized

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crime related? It might like Roma
is a small town, but I definitely

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sounds like there was a lot of
shady stuff and organized crime taking place there

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back in the nineteen seventies. One
thing I do find interesting, though,

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is a lot of times we see
home invasions where basically the objective is to

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find something, but the intent is
also to murder the occupants of the home.

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I think a lot of times,
if it is done in the evening,

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they won't necessarily wear masks, especially
before there was CCTV everywhere and people

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had, you know, the ring
doorbells, and whatnot, because if you're

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planning to murder people, then oftentimes
you don't need to worry about being masked

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because people can see you because they're
no longer They're going to cease to exist

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after they've encountered you and you've ransacked
their home or however the scenario plays out.

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But the fact that both intruders were
a masked makes me think that may

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be the intent was to only murder
Stanley does an incredible point. Yeah,

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they wouldn't have to wear a mask
if they went in knowing our objective is

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Twofold killed the two occupants and get
something or look to retrieve something or secret

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vengel in this family. So it
does very much point to Stanley being a

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target. It's just it's crazy to
me that Esther would be left because that

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does put them at extreme risk,
even if they were masked to say,

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hey, I saw this about them. I can describe their height, I

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know their weight, you know those
kinds of things as well. Our story

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begins in nineteen seventy six in Rome, New York, a town located in

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Oneida County, which had a population
of around forty three thousand at the time.

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Our central figure is fifty nine year
old Stanley Grizick, who lives with

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his fifty four year old wife,
Esther. The couple have been married for

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thirty three years and have three children. Stanley has five siblings, and two

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of his brothers, Peter and Bernard, help him run a family owned gas

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station in liquor store, which are
located right next to Stanley's residence. Sadly,

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the Gresick suffered a tragedy earlier this
year when Peter passed away on July

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second after a lengthy illness, but
another tragedy would soon hit the family in

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a very unexpected way. On the
evening of November sixth, Stanley and Esther

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were at home with their six year
old grandson, who was staying with them

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and sleeping upstairs. Sometime after eleven
pm, Stanley was running a bath for

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his wife and Esther was going through
her nightly ritual of checking all the house's

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windows and doors to make sure that
they were locked. While Esther was in

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the kitchen, two men wearing ski
masks suddenly burst in through the back door.

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One of the men was described as
being tall, while the other was

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short and stocky, and the short
man grabbed Esther by the throat. It

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wasn't long before Stanley came running downstairs
and entered the dining room, where he

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immediately got into a struggle with a
taller man. The other intruder remained in

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the kitchen and started choking Esther until
she went unconscious and fell to the floor.

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Esther would soon regain consciousness and essentially
started playing dead and kept holding her

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breath. She proceeded to lie face
down without making a movement while her assailant

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handcuffed her behind her back and tied
her arms to her feet. While this

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was going on, Esther caught a
glimpse of the man placing a pearl handled

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gun down on the floor in close
proximity to her face. After Estra was

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tied up, he picked up his
gun and left the kitchen. Esther was

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deaf and required the use of a
hearing aid, but it had been knocked

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out of her ear when the intruder
choked her. As a result, she

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could not hear what the two men
were doing inside the house, but she

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knew they were still there because she
could feel the vibrations from their movements.

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Esther remained motionless for nearly an hour
until the handcuffs were removed from her wrists,

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though her arms and feet remained tied
together. When she could no longer

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feel moved it inside the house and
was certain the intruders were gone, Estra

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finally started to wiggle around until she
managed to get her arms untied from her

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feet. She then got up and
left the kitchen, but was soon horrified

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to find Stanley lying dead on the
dining room floor. He had been down

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with chords taken from the blinds before
he was killed. What a blessing that

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their six year old grandson was sound
asleep upstairs and that he didn't wake up

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from all of the ruckats that was
going around downstairs. It could have completely

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startled these two intruders, causing them
to kill either Esther or the little one

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as well. So that's one of
the only blessings in this scenario. Poor

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Esther is deaf, she's caught off
guard, her hearing aid falls out,

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and she lies there playing dead.
I cannot fathom how much trauma would be

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going through your head saying I have
to I have to stay still, but

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what's happening with my grandson, what's
happening with my husband? And she can't

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even hear things so she's basically lying
there saying I'm bound. I can't do

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anything anyway, so I'm going to
try to save my life. Now,

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did someone come buy and take the
handcuffs off of her wrist and hour later?

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Yes, because that's kind of a
weird detail because when you hear about

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the intruder choking her into unconsciousness,
she kind of wonder did they intend to

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kill her? But they just didn't
do a thrown off job. But because

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they bothered to handcuff her and bound
her, that does seem to indicate that

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they were planning to leave her alive, and that after they were done,

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they decided to take the handcuffs away
because they knew it could possibly be traced

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back to them. But yeah,
it seems like they were willing to kill

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Stanley, but esther they didn't really
care much if she lived or died.

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That's fascinating when you said the handcuffs
were remove them by the police and then

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it's like, no, she was
trying to get up and go see what

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had happened in her house. So
these intruders, like you said, it's

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almost as if they said she needs
to be incapacitated for a few minutes.

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But then an hour later, an
hour into this home invasion, we're going

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to go in and remove these handcuffs
and almost like a I don't know,

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like a caring's not the right word, but almost in a thoughtful way of

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like, Okay, this will give
her a chance to get untied in time

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when we leave. I feel like
if this was a targeted hit, and

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these individuals were either involved or they
were paid by some other individuals to do

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this job, then I think that
it wasn't necessarily like care or anything outside

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the fact that you were paid to
do a certain job. Maybe that would

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be retrieve information and kill Stanley,
and that's what you're paid for. You're

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not paid to kill a woman.
I don't think even hit men in situations

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like that are going to annihilate an
entire family unless that is your objective and

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you're paid to do so. I
think minimizing the casualties in a hit would

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be the desired objective and less instructive
otherwise, and exactly, and I'm sure

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they were also reluctant to kill a
child as well, because for all we

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know, because they were searching so
thoroughly throughout the house, maybe they did

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see the grandson sleeping in the bedroom, but pretty much how the attitude,

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I'm not going to harm him and
just let him sleep and hopefully he doesn't

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wake up. I was thinking the
same thing, Rob, And there's no

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way in an an hour of touring
this house that they would not have gone

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by that bedroom and peaked, getting
on, Oh my god, there's a

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little one in there. Just keep
going right, leave it alone, be

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quiet over here, and just continued
on whatever their mission was at the time.

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And I mean, even on the
flip side, we could look at

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it from another perspective. They could
have had the idea that they were going

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to kill both Esther and Stanley,
but then they saw the grandchild and thought,

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oh my gosh, here's this innocent
kid. We'd better leave the lady

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alive. Esther also discovered that the
entire house had been completely roundsacked by the

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two intruders who tore the place apart. Thankfully, her grandson was left unharmed

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upstairs and had slept through the entire
incident. Esther attempted to use the phone,

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but discovered that the lines had been
cut, so she left the house

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and ran to the home of Stanley's
brother, Bernard, who subsequently contacted the

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police. After Stanley's body was taken
away, the Rome Police Department barred the

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Greasick family from entering the house until
they could perform a thorough search. They

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eventually determined that no robbery had taken
place and the only items missing were two

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bottles of beer from the refrigerator.
The round sacking seemed to indicate that the

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two intruders had been searching for something, but no one could figure out what

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they were looking for or if they
actually found it. The following day,

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Stanley's son, Martin Grizig, went
searching through the house and came across a

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spent shell casing on the floor underneath
the dining room table. Needless to say,

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this took him by complete surprise,
as police had already performed an extensive

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search of the house following the murder, and the shell casing was lying right

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on top of the rug in plane
sight, so it wasn't easy to miss.

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Regardless, Martin picked it up with
a pencil, put it inside a

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plastic bag, and contacted the police. When a detective arrived at the house,

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he took the shell casing from Martin
and put it in his pocket.

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But asked him not to mention it
to anyone else for the time being.

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Yikes, Well, here we have
a lot of things going on. First

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of all, they searched this house
looking for something missing, right, I'm

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sure Esther could give them an inventory
of a valuable things in their home.

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And they say, look, nothing
was missing except for two bottles of beer

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from the refrigerator, which to me
is so disturbing. For someone who took

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your husband's life and ruined your home, completely violated your safe space, they

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had time to sit and drink a
beer from your refrigerator. It's very callous,

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it's very cold, and it's so
nonchalant in such a heightened moment,

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very disturbing to me. And also
here comes Martin Stanley's son saying, Okay,

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they wouldn't let me in the house. Now, now that they've done

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their search, I'm going to go
in and just kind of see what happened.

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A lot of families need that,
right, They want to see where

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these things happen and what could have
gone wrong. And when he goes in,

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he doesn't just see the scene where
his father was killed. He sees

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a shell case, and that's very
obvious to him. Signaling in his mind

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mind they didn't do a thorough or
detailed search of this house whatsoever or this

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crime scene, which means the chance
that my dad's going to get justice is

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far lessened. Here comes a detective
who comes to see this evidence that Martin's

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collected, and he puts it in
his pocket, saying, don't mention it

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to anyone for the time being.
One of two things is going on.

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He's hiding the fact that his team
didn't follow protocol and messed up, and

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he doesn't want this shell casey to
come back and professionally hurt him. Or

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it could also be that he doesn't
want information shared with the family or anyone

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else, because even when a family
knows information and is trying to help,

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the more details they know, sometimes
they unknowingly buyas the investigation or provide information

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that only a killer would know.
And it's possible that maybe he didn't want

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the caliber of the shell or something
like that coming out. But as a

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survivor, when a detective puts evidence
in his pocket and says, don't say

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anything, it would feel far more
sinister to me than that. Yeah,

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it's always a major red flag to
me, and the police performer search of

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a crime scene and don't find something, and then the family does their own

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search and find something almost instantly.
Are you guys for another example of this,

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Are you guys familiar with the Ashley
Freeman Laura Bible case. Yes,

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m that's another one where two teenage
girls were abducted from a trailer fire,

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and like the police showed up at
the scene, did an extensive search and

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assumed that they had been kidnapped by
one of the girl's fathers. But then

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the parents go back to the crime
scene the following day and they literally find

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the father's body within five minutes,
which had somehow been missed by the entire

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police force. So this was a
major So this was a major red flag

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that the investigation was not going to
be a good one. And I think

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the same feeling was with Stanley's case, because it sounds like that slug wouldn't

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have been very easy to miss and
should have been found by the police.

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Something about the intruders, like obviously
their sexual assault was not the motive for

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this crime, but just reminded me
of the Joseph DeAngelo. Remember, before

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he became a Golden State killer,
he was the East a are you a

208
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rapist? And he would go into
the homes of these women, and wouldn't

209
00:15:03.679 --> 00:15:09.399
he put like plates on their back
so that they couldn't move while he was

210
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making himself at home in their space
doing god knows what, eating from the

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fridge or drinking from the fridge,
and they had to just lie there still

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and not make any noise while this
man had violated them once and then is

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violating them again by continuing to remain
in their space. Yeah, it's the

214
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same type of thing, because we
don't know if they took the beers and

215
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drank them afterwards. But the idea
that they could have been hanging around the

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house for a long period of time
drinking the beers while they're ransacking it is

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pretty creepy. But because Esther didn't
see anything, we have no idea if

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that's what they actually did. And
what's so hard for Esther too, is

219
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.279
as a deaf woman, right,
she's feeling vibrations around the house, and

220
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likely when a gun was fired,
she could feel that as well, but

221
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:58.399
may not know been able to link
what it was. But she's sitting there

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00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:03.320
with these law enforcement agents where a
lot of people could have ear witness testimony

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to say and tell them, oh, I heard them do this. They

224
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win here, I heard them do
this. Then they told him this right.

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Esther can't do any of that.
She's so helpless in this moment.

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She's a grieving widow. Think God, her grand baby's okay. But she's

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sitting there going okay. I was
held hostage. I was forced to play

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debt and bound, and then I
woke up and saw that my husband was

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killed. It's just so sad because
she easily. You know, if she

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00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:33.200
had been able to hear, she
might have been able to hear something they

231
00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:36.000
said to him, or a motivation
they said to each other, but she

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didn't have that ability. Well.
The discovery of the shell casing would cause

233
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a major discrepancy, as all the
newspaper articles about the crime stated that Stanley

234
00:16:45.879 --> 00:16:48.879
was stabbed to death, and the
original autopsy reportless did his cause of death

235
00:16:49.000 --> 00:16:52.440
as a single stab wound to the
art. Since her hearing it had been

236
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knocked out, Esther could not say
she heard a gunshot that night, but

237
00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:59.879
she was adamant at her attack,
or had placed a god on the floor,

238
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a cider, and the Gresick family
believed that the shell casing on the

239
00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:07.319
dining room floor was conclusive evidence that
Stanley had been shot. Stanley and Esther

240
00:17:07.359 --> 00:17:11.160
did not keep any guns in the
house, so there was really no other

241
00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:15.480
explanation for the presence of the shell
casing unless one of the intruders had fired

242
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:19.000
off a shot. As a result, the Gresick family had Stanley's body exoomed

243
00:17:19.079 --> 00:17:23.319
less than a month after his death. A second autopsy discovered a twenty five

244
00:17:23.359 --> 00:17:27.000
caliber bullet in Stanley's chest and there
was no sign of a stab wound.

245
00:17:27.519 --> 00:17:30.839
Oh and in case you don't find
his suspicious enough, Martin plaimed that he

246
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:34.160
never found out what happened to the
shell casing after he gave it to the

247
00:17:34.160 --> 00:17:40.200
detective from the Rome PD. Was
it doctor Mallick who performed with this first

248
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:44.960
Yes, Bobby, of course,
yes, yes, yes. So what

249
00:17:45.160 --> 00:17:48.359
is insane to me as a grieving
family. You were waiting for that autopsy

250
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.880
report to tell you the details you
didn't know, to fill in those gaps,

251
00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.720
and they say, oh, he
was stabbed to death, a single

252
00:17:55.920 --> 00:18:00.680
stab wound to the heart, and
your son is sitting there saying that's not

253
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:03.240
true. He was shot right like
he had to have been shot. I

254
00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.960
found a shell casing. But here's
a doctor telling you know he was stabbed

255
00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:12.559
and it's a single wound to the
heart. And then you have his body

256
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:17.920
egzom which is also emotionally taxing,
and they say, sure enough, they

257
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:22.079
find a bullet in his chest.
How did you miss that the first time

258
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:25.839
you did an autopsy on him?
And not only did they find the bullet,

259
00:18:25.880 --> 00:18:29.599
there is not a single stab wound. So you have told me his

260
00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:33.400
cause of death in a completely inaccurate
manner. You also have not informed us

261
00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:38.599
of where the evidence my son found
was. And so the Rome Police Department

262
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:44.440
is looking incredibly bad at this moment. Again, malicious or not, you

263
00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:48.519
have failed this family, and so
has the doctor performing the autopsy on him.

264
00:18:48.599 --> 00:18:52.720
Oh definitely, But at least they
didn't say that Stanley smoked twenty marijuana

265
00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:56.160
cigarettes before he died, So I
guess I'll give them that. Yeah,

266
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:59.720
he just laid on the tracks and
smoked, you know, fifteen pounds of

267
00:18:59.720 --> 00:19:04.079
marow Wanna and fell asleep. It's
just crazy that they would assume that it

268
00:19:04.240 --> 00:19:08.839
was a stab wound because how big. Actually, you're probably the most knowledgeable

269
00:19:08.880 --> 00:19:12.200
about guns are the three of us. You definitely are like a twenty five

270
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:18.039
caliber bullet. Is that a big
bullet or a small bullet you'd be surprised.

271
00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:21.119
I don't. I don't know the
answer to that. I just go

272
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:22.960
shoot targets for fun, Okay,
So what I do know. What I

273
00:19:22.960 --> 00:19:27.200
do know is that a stab wound
and a gunshot one would likely look different,

274
00:19:27.599 --> 00:19:32.279
right, But it does depend on
how close the weapon was fired.

275
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:33.720
That doesn't matter what the caliber is, right Like, the closer it is

276
00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:38.240
in some ways, depending on the
type of bullet, it would be a

277
00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:41.279
cleaner wound, or if it's super
close, they could cause more damage to

278
00:19:41.400 --> 00:19:45.000
just depending on what type of round
is fired into them and what weapon they're

279
00:19:45.079 --> 00:19:48.720
using. But stab wound, like, I don't see how this clear stab

280
00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:52.759
wound that pierced his heart could have
been what they ruled when he was shot

281
00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:56.440
to me that that wound would not
look similar in any way. Wouldn't you

282
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:03.519
go in there too and investigate?
Especially when esther there was such specificity with

283
00:20:03.559 --> 00:20:07.160
regards to the gun that she said
that she saw it had a pearl handle,

284
00:20:07.279 --> 00:20:07.920
right, Like, It's not just
like, oh, I think that

285
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:11.160
I saw a black thing that could
have been a gun. She was very

286
00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:18.039
specific and then the sun finding the
shell casing. At that point you'd think

287
00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:21.680
you'd go, well, maybe my
conclusion that I reached was incorrect, Maybe

288
00:20:21.680 --> 00:20:26.160
I should use some further investigation and
then look at the wound. But clearly

289
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.599
that didn't happen here. No,
It's like if the family had not taken

290
00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:33.480
the initiative to exhume Stanley's body,
then they still would have maintained that he

291
00:20:33.559 --> 00:20:36.759
died of a stab wound, and
the investigation never would have gone anywhere.

292
00:20:36.880 --> 00:20:40.440
So I don't know if this was
an intentional cover up to protect the perpetrators

293
00:20:40.559 --> 00:20:44.240
or if it was just incompetence and
the rome pede did not want to admit

294
00:20:44.279 --> 00:20:48.680
they made a mistake. And don't
you both think that if I guess,

295
00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:55.200
it depends where the perpetrator shot Stanley
the type of blood spatter that there would

296
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:59.079
be versus a blood trail if there
was a knife, right, because if

297
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:02.599
it was a stabbing, I think
you'd see a blood trail with larger droplets.

298
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:07.200
Exactly. It's never been made clear
if they found any blood spatter around

299
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:10.039
the spot where Stanley's body was found, but for all we know, maybe

300
00:21:10.079 --> 00:21:12.599
they did and they cleaned it up
or something before the rest of the family

301
00:21:12.640 --> 00:21:17.319
went back in there because they wanted
to maintain the narrative that he was stabbed.

302
00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:21.079
I just don't see where that would
benefit them unless there's some kind of

303
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:22.200
ability for the you know, the
police to be like, oh, we

304
00:21:22.279 --> 00:21:26.480
know who did this, and it's
our colleague and we're going to protect him.

305
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.160
Why would they do any of that. It seems to me lazy that

306
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.920
they said like, oh, this
is what we found. You know,

307
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:37.160
we didn't really see much. They
didn't duck. They did everything in a

308
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:40.319
couple hours and then let the family
go back in the next morning. So

309
00:21:40.839 --> 00:21:45.799
it's bizarre to me that no one
heard of the bullet. No one did

310
00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:49.000
an investigation, like Jewel said,
deeper into his physical body to say,

311
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:53.079
hey, I'm just gonna check there
was a bullet still in his body.

312
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:57.079
That is a big thing to overlook, especially when you have a wound and

313
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:00.680
you can follow it to the bullet. Blows my mind. I would be

314
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:07.480
so devastated as a family. I
had to get him exhumed to get information

315
00:22:07.079 --> 00:22:10.839
and then tried to help solve his
case. Right, you had to beg

316
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:15.319
for that first and get that,
which again is emotionally exhausting and devastating for

317
00:22:15.359 --> 00:22:19.720
her family. And then you find
out, well, everybody's been wrong from

318
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.039
the start, and no one knows
about that bullet, just like the detective

319
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:29.359
had told the son not to do. Needless to say, these new revelations

320
00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.160
made the Greasy suspect that a cover
up was taking place, and the investigation

321
00:22:33.240 --> 00:22:38.960
hit a complete standstill. Sadly,
Esther passed away in July nineteen seventy eight,

322
00:22:40.279 --> 00:22:42.480
and her family believed she was never
the same after the trauma of her

323
00:22:42.519 --> 00:22:48.359
husband's murder and essentially died of a
broken heart. The case would pretty much

324
00:22:48.359 --> 00:22:52.680
be forgotten for over a decade until
it was revived in an unexpected way.

325
00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.160
In March nineteen eighty nine. A
drug dealer came forward and told the Rome

326
00:22:56.200 --> 00:23:02.160
Police Department that he had information about
someone who was likely involved in Stanley's murder.

327
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:04.839
So, according to the informant,
a few days before the crime took

328
00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.640
place, he was working as a
bartender when he was approached by another man

329
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:14.000
associated with the bar at the time. The informant owed money to this man,

330
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.599
but was told his debt would be
white clean if he participated in a

331
00:23:17.640 --> 00:23:22.519
burglary he'd organized. The man soon
drove the informant to a house which turned

332
00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:26.519
out to be Stanley Grisi's residence,
and told him there was a large amount

333
00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:30.319
of money hidden in there for the
taking. Well. The informant declined to

334
00:23:30.400 --> 00:23:33.240
participate in the burglary, but of
course a breaking would take place at the

335
00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:38.000
house just a few days later,
which resulted in Stanley's death. This puts

336
00:23:38.039 --> 00:23:44.160
the informant in an incredibly awkward situation, because you know, he really was

337
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:48.880
approached about, Hey, you can
kind of wipe your dad's clean if you'll

338
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:52.960
help me with this robbery. Well, this is a drug dealer. I

339
00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:56.519
don't think a burglary would be that
big of a issue to him, right,

340
00:23:56.599 --> 00:24:00.440
And he's thinking, yeah, I
could, I couldn't. But then

341
00:24:00.480 --> 00:24:03.079
he goes and he sees his resident
and he says, nah, it's not

342
00:24:03.079 --> 00:24:07.240
worth the risk to me, and
then he reads I'm sure our hears.

343
00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:11.519
Okay, this burglary happened anyway,
and there's a death involved. Now what

344
00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:12.519
does he do? He goes forward
and says like, oh, I was

345
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:17.400
you know hired, I was going
to be hired for this murder plot and

346
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:21.039
oops, I said no, I
didn't tell anybody. I didn't stop it

347
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:22.920
from happening, right, I knew
information that this house was going to be

348
00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.400
targeted, so and he's involved in
drugs, so likely he has a record

349
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:32.400
as well. It doesn't put him
in a situation to easily be able to

350
00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:36.759
go to the police. And then
he's sitting there for years thinking, Okay,

351
00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:40.440
I know this information. It's wearing
on me. And he finally comes

352
00:24:40.480 --> 00:24:45.880
forward before you share what happened with
that informant, because it is pretty powerful

353
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:48.480
that he does come forward, even
though it's years later. I want to

354
00:24:48.519 --> 00:24:51.079
go back to the fact that Esther
passed away. What was it two years

355
00:24:51.119 --> 00:24:53.880
after her husband died? Oh yeah, just under two years, just under

356
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:57.799
two years. I have no doubt
it is related to that trauma. I

357
00:24:57.799 --> 00:25:02.200
mean, there's a a book I
believe it's called The Body Holds the Tale

358
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:07.440
and I mentioned it several times.
But where our bodies physically change when there's

359
00:25:07.480 --> 00:25:11.160
emotional and physical trauma to our minds
and our bodies. And so you have

360
00:25:11.319 --> 00:25:15.559
Esther, who was not elderly.
Stanley was fifty nine years old, so

361
00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:19.960
Esther's probably around that age as well, and she only lives another year and

362
00:25:21.039 --> 00:25:26.200
a half because her body was breaking
down. She was held hostage, she

363
00:25:26.400 --> 00:25:30.680
was present when her husband was killed, she found his body, She knows

364
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.079
that her grandson could have also died. Her home was invaded, right,

365
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:38.079
So it's I have no doubt the
power that that trauma did have on her.

366
00:25:38.119 --> 00:25:44.359
And it is pitiful because she passed
away without knowing who hurt her husband,

367
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.880
and I believe before the body was
exhumed. Wasn't Didn't she pass away

368
00:25:47.920 --> 00:25:52.079
before the body was exhumed as well? The exam the body just a month

369
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.039
after Stanley originally died. Yeah,
okay, okay, so at least she

370
00:25:55.079 --> 00:25:57.519
knew some information before she passed away. Still, it's such a sad story.

371
00:25:57.640 --> 00:26:00.480
So go back to the informant and
tell me what happened to this man

372
00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.400
who comes forward, albeit over a
decade later, he does come forward,

373
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.920
which is very very powerful. Yeah, Like, even though he waited a

374
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:11.839
long time, the informant pretty much
jump started the investigation. So even if

375
00:26:11.839 --> 00:26:15.400
he wasn't entirely telling the truth,
it at least allowed the case to go

376
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:21.039
active again and go back into the
spotlight. So by the time the informant

377
00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:22.960
shared this story, there was a
new team of detectives working the case.

378
00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:27.839
So the investigation was reopened. The
detective soon got in touch with Amy Scott,

379
00:26:27.839 --> 00:26:30.640
who had been a neighbor of the
Greasix in nineteen seventy six, and

380
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:37.039
shared her own interesting story. According
to Amy, shortly after eleven pm on

381
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:40.279
the night of the murder, her
dog became restless, so she took him

382
00:26:40.319 --> 00:26:44.000
outside the house and happened to see
a man walking down an alley towards the

383
00:26:44.000 --> 00:26:48.559
greas At home. Approximately forty five
minutes later, Amy walked out onto the

384
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:52.200
porch to call her dog back in
when she noticed this same man exiting in

385
00:26:52.200 --> 00:26:56.200
the alley and climbing into a white
Lincoln Continental driven by a second man.

386
00:26:56.799 --> 00:27:00.839
The vehicle sped away very quickly and
nearly Sideswiped's dog in the process, which

387
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.440
prompted her to shout at them.
A few days later, Amy went to

388
00:27:04.480 --> 00:27:08.720
a drive through window at a bank
when she noticed the same white Lincoln Continental

389
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:12.759
in her rear view mirror with the
same two men inside. When Amy drove

390
00:27:12.759 --> 00:27:17.759
away, the Lincoln remained behind her
for several blocks, and she got genuinely

391
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:21.680
frightened that she was being followed.
She quickly drove to the police station and

392
00:27:21.720 --> 00:27:25.599
met up with a policeman on the
front steps. After she explained what was

393
00:27:25.640 --> 00:27:29.440
happening, Amy and the policeman climbed
into his car and drove around the area

394
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:32.160
to search for the men and the
Lincoln. By by this point they were

395
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:36.000
gone. It's interesting to me that
even back in the seventies they didn't have

396
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.960
enough information to kind of look at
who had this kind of car. Did

397
00:27:40.039 --> 00:27:42.799
they not look into it or did
they not have the technology to look into

398
00:27:42.839 --> 00:27:47.960
it, because if they're still hanging
around Rome a couple of days after this

399
00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:51.799
murder, they're probably from around there. Well, as we're going to talk

400
00:27:51.839 --> 00:27:55.039
about, this becomes a recurring theme
where we're going to get a whole bunch

401
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:59.119
of witnesses coming forward saying I went
to the police with such and such information

402
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.559
back in nineteen seventy six, and
nothing was done with it. So I

403
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:06.440
had no idea if they even attempted
to look and try to identify this white

404
00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:10.440
Lincoln Continental. And like I said, the only reason this investigation has been

405
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:14.759
jump started in nineteen eighty nine is
that because a new team of detectives are

406
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:18.000
now working on the case, and
they seem a lot more ambitious and willing

407
00:28:18.039 --> 00:28:22.960
to try to reopen the case and
get it solved. When she was reinterviewed,

408
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:27.000
Amy directed the new investigators towards a
woman named Patsy Peck who had yet

409
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:32.720
another interesting story. So Patsy owned
a bookstore in Rome, and the day

410
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:37.519
before Stanley was murdered, she claimed
that two men entered her establishment who matched

411
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.079
the description of the individuals that Amy
had seen. One was tall with dark

412
00:28:41.119 --> 00:28:45.720
hair, while the other was shortened
stocky with sandy hair, and they drove

413
00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:49.119
a white Lincoln Continental. According to
Patsy, the two men chatted with her

414
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:53.519
husband as they were apparently acquainted with
him, who had not seen him since

415
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:57.640
they left town a while back.
Patsy claimed that after Stanley was murdered,

416
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:03.200
she went to the police in shared
this information with the original investigators, But

417
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:07.759
even though Amy Scott's initial police interview
from nineteen seventy six was still in the

418
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.799
case file, there was no record
of Patsy's statement. It is wild.

419
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.200
You do you have these two women
who said, look, we gave information

420
00:29:15.319 --> 00:29:21.160
about physical descriptions their car, right, who these guys were, how tall

421
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:26.680
they were, what their body was
like, And there's really no information in

422
00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:30.400
the case file of what occurred and
what's frustrated is like there is a new

423
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:34.400
team of detectives in the eighties who
are working in this case and probably had

424
00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:37.880
a very different energy about them.
Right. It sounds like the investigators in

425
00:29:37.960 --> 00:29:42.119
nineteen seventy six walked onto the scene, made an assumption of what happened.

426
00:29:42.440 --> 00:29:48.400
Maybe they knew the brother and knew
that this family was quote involved in illegal

427
00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:51.480
things and just assumed Stanley was part
of it, so they didn't care,

428
00:29:52.079 --> 00:29:53.880
or they just didn't care at all. In general, that they were lazy,

429
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:57.799
that they were in experience with homicide
investigations and they said, look,

430
00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:00.880
he's dead, it's really not a
big deal. The case is one of

431
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.079
the cases that doesn't have to be
immediately worked because you don't have a living

432
00:30:04.359 --> 00:30:08.920
victim, right, So often they'll
work sexual assaults and robberies and things like

433
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.440
that first. When they have a
homicide as well that goes on for several

434
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.920
weeks, right, they'll stop pursuing
that. So I think, in my

435
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:21.000
gut, I feel like they were
lazy and an experience with this since Rome's

436
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.599
a small town. But there is
a piece of me that says, what

437
00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:26.599
was it about Stanley's death that made
them not care. Okay, Robin,

438
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:30.119
quick question for you, because this
is kind of eating away at me.

439
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:36.559
So Patsy's husband was acquainted with these
two men, aka, she knew their

440
00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.640
identities, their names, right,
I think so Like it's never been clarified,

441
00:30:40.680 --> 00:30:44.200
but I have to assume that if
she recognized them, that she gave

442
00:30:44.240 --> 00:30:48.720
their names to the authorities. That
looks so sketchy that her statement isn't even

443
00:30:48.799 --> 00:30:53.519
taken, and that these suspects were
clearly not pursued. That's what strikes me

444
00:30:53.599 --> 00:30:57.279
is that we have two witnesses who
have never met Amy Scott and Patsy Peck,

445
00:30:57.400 --> 00:31:02.319
giving very similar stories about these two
men who look similar, who both

446
00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:04.839
drive a white Lincoln Continental. So
it sounds like it should be fairly easy

447
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.480
to find these guys. Yet jogging
by the case file, no action was

448
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:12.960
ever taken. It's very bizarre because
when I worked for one of the cold

449
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.839
case units that I was working with, I remember going through some of the

450
00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:22.240
case files. The new detectives obviously
were not involved in this, but as

451
00:31:22.359 --> 00:31:23.839
they were taking on these cases,
I would go through and helped him look

452
00:31:23.880 --> 00:31:26.759
at the facts and look at what
was president in the case file, what

453
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:30.559
was missing and I would often like
lean over and be like, hey,

454
00:31:30.759 --> 00:31:33.640
do you know if anyone interviewed this
lady who said that, you know,

455
00:31:33.720 --> 00:31:37.160
she heard the victims scream? Do
you know if anyone interviewed this guy who

456
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:41.119
says he saw car leaving? And
oftentimes the detectives are sitting there reading the

457
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:44.480
case file, they're like, I
don't think so, I don't think that

458
00:31:44.559 --> 00:31:48.200
happened. And so you know,
when a new team of detectives gets the

459
00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:51.759
case, they're able to look back
and they see the shortcomings. Right.

460
00:31:51.759 --> 00:31:56.000
It is very bizarre when you look
at these cold cases that you go,

461
00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.920
guys, there was information here that
needed to be pursued at that time if

462
00:32:00.960 --> 00:32:02.920
we were going to make an arrest
in this case, and it wasn't.

463
00:32:05.680 --> 00:32:07.920
Well it turned out there was.
He had another eyewitness sighting of these two

464
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:13.079
men in Rome. Another witness told
police that he remembered seeing them enter a

465
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:16.359
local bar shortly after Stanley's murder,
which happened to be the same bar where

466
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:22.079
the aforementioned informant had been approached about
participating in a burglary days beforehand. The

467
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.039
witness saw the two men meet with
another man near the back of the bar

468
00:32:25.279 --> 00:32:29.839
who handed them an envelope containing a
large sum of money before they left.

469
00:32:30.640 --> 00:32:32.680
Well, the witness recognized at least
one of the two men and approached the

470
00:32:32.720 --> 00:32:37.759
individual who handed them the money.
This guy said that the money was payment

471
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:39.759
for a job that they had recently
done for him, and these two men

472
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:44.599
now had to leave town. So
the implication seemed to be that the two

473
00:32:44.599 --> 00:32:47.079
men who broke into Stanley's home and
murdered him had been paid off to do

474
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:52.160
it. But the big answered question
was why would anyone target Stanley? Well,

475
00:32:52.200 --> 00:32:55.480
it turned out that the liquor license
for the bar where this transaction took

476
00:32:55.519 --> 00:33:00.880
place had been held by Stanley's brother, Peter Griesick. Oh, okay,

477
00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:05.880
hold that one put put a pin
in it. As you said to say,

478
00:33:05.960 --> 00:33:07.440
Jeels right would have been in am
for a second. But okay,

479
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:13.000
So this informant that comes forward,
it's not just that he says he knows

480
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:15.920
the guy who offered to break in
the house. He says he actually saw

481
00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:21.319
that the job had been done and
that a man was being paid for it,

482
00:33:21.680 --> 00:33:24.839
and the two men needed to leave
town. Surely he had given the

483
00:33:24.920 --> 00:33:29.680
name to the investigators in the eighties. Surely he could say these were the

484
00:33:29.720 --> 00:33:34.680
two guys who broke into that at
home and murdered him. It seems like

485
00:33:34.799 --> 00:33:37.880
it's not possible that he would have
told this story and say like, oh,

486
00:33:37.920 --> 00:33:38.799
but I don't know who these guys
are. I worked with him,

487
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:42.920
I saw them exchange money. I
rode in the car with him to this

488
00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:45.240
house. But I have no idea
who this is. He knew them,

489
00:33:45.519 --> 00:33:49.400
so where did that information go?
And, like you said, who would

490
00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.240
want to target Stanley? But it
turns out that the liquor license for this

491
00:33:52.359 --> 00:33:58.759
bar is held by Stanley's brother,
Peter. And I'll tell you my grandfather

492
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.400
ran a bar when he was younger
and my mom was a little girl,

493
00:34:01.519 --> 00:34:06.079
and I remember when he was diagnosed
with cancer, he shut it down immediately,

494
00:34:06.119 --> 00:34:08.360
and my mom and her mom were
saying, like, why what if

495
00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:12.599
we ran the business, because it's
a great business, and he said,

496
00:34:12.599 --> 00:34:15.440
I will be damned if my girls
are involved in the liquor business. It

497
00:34:15.519 --> 00:34:20.719
is dangerous and unsafe and it's not
what I want my family involved in.

498
00:34:20.800 --> 00:34:23.880
So I don't know what all that
was about, but it seems like when

499
00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:29.119
you have these kinds of bars that
they do open themselves up to a different

500
00:34:29.199 --> 00:34:32.639
kind of breed of people to frequent
the bar, to maybe work at the

501
00:34:32.679 --> 00:34:37.679
bar, to maybe have liquor illegally, those kinds of things. So it's

502
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:43.840
interesting to hear what we know about
Peter. As you might recall, Peter

503
00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:47.480
passed away only four months before Stanley
was killed. In the months prior to

504
00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:52.000
his own death, Peter was gravely
ill, so he summoned Stanley to his

505
00:34:52.039 --> 00:34:57.519
home for a private conversation in his
bedroom behind closed doors. Well, no

506
00:34:57.519 --> 00:35:00.480
one else knows what exactly they talked
about, but it seems to have a

507
00:35:00.599 --> 00:35:06.360
serious effect on the two brothers relationship, even though they had always been close.

508
00:35:06.880 --> 00:35:12.199
Stanley never spoke to Peter again before
he died. After Peter's passing,

509
00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:16.679
Stanley would still not reveal anything of
other conversation, but his family noticed that

510
00:35:16.719 --> 00:35:22.199
his behavior seemed to change and he
became more distant. During a visit with

511
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:25.760
his daughter Patricia, Stanley surprised her
by saying, I don't know when I'll

512
00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:30.239
ever see you again. This turned
out to be the last time Patricia saw

513
00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:36.440
her father alive, as he was
murdered shortly thereafter. Anyway, the bar

514
00:35:36.519 --> 00:35:40.159
Peter was involved with eventually closed down
after its slicker license was revoked in nineteen

515
00:35:40.199 --> 00:35:45.480
eighty two. A number of illegal
activities were discovered to be taking place at

516
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:50.559
that bar, including on site gambling
and the sale of controlled substances. Now,

517
00:35:50.559 --> 00:35:52.800
I'll have to give Peter a little
bit of credit. It's likely that

518
00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:55.119
he was involved in these things and
knew that these things were occurring at his

519
00:35:55.159 --> 00:35:59.519
bar. But it was in nineteen
seventy six that the murder happened, right,

520
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:04.199
And this is nineteen eighty two that
the bar shut down exactly, So

521
00:36:04.239 --> 00:36:07.480
we still don't know if the reason
that the bar shutdown had anything to do

522
00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:12.079
with what Peter was involved with.
Yeah, that's a long time. Six

523
00:36:12.159 --> 00:36:14.960
years, you know, seven years, that's a really long time to say

524
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.440
like, oh this is all because
of Peter, or Peter knew all of

525
00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:20.480
this that was going on. He
likely did. I'll put that out there,

526
00:36:20.480 --> 00:36:22.880
But that is a significant amount of
time to pass for our business to

527
00:36:23.000 --> 00:36:30.840
change substantially. It's it's crazy that
we know Stanley and Peter talked right before

528
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:35.960
his death, and they didn't talk
after that, and Stanley is significantly changed

529
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:38.679
in his behavior, in his emotional
connection to his family, and then that

530
00:36:38.920 --> 00:36:43.119
comment to his daughter, I got
chills when you said this, I don't

531
00:36:43.159 --> 00:36:46.840
know when I'll ever see you again. And that's the last time this girl

532
00:36:46.960 --> 00:36:52.599
hears her father's voice, sees him
those kinds of things because he's murdered,

533
00:36:52.880 --> 00:36:59.079
like he knew something. He knew
something negative, something that Peter had gotten

534
00:36:59.159 --> 00:37:04.480
involved in, or or something that
was being threatened against Peter, because he

535
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:07.880
knew there was some kind of darkness
hanging around him. Maybe not that he

536
00:37:07.920 --> 00:37:09.440
was going to be killed. But
you don't say I don't know when I'll

537
00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:15.360
ever see you again to your child
unless something big is going on, Like

538
00:37:15.480 --> 00:37:20.000
that had to be huge. Can
you imagine what he would have had to

539
00:37:20.039 --> 00:37:22.840
have said, like I've done something
so horrible or I owe so much money,

540
00:37:23.199 --> 00:37:28.199
I'm going to die and they're going
to come for you because they want

541
00:37:28.239 --> 00:37:31.440
their money, or something along those
lines. What would it be that would

542
00:37:31.480 --> 00:37:37.800
be so horrific that would basically have
Stanley walk away from Peter at the end

543
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:42.079
of his life, a brother who
he was very close to. And then

544
00:37:42.079 --> 00:37:45.239
when he says that to his daughter
Patricia, like you said, Ash,

545
00:37:45.280 --> 00:37:51.119
it gave me chills too. He
basically predicted his own murder. Yeah,

546
00:37:51.119 --> 00:37:53.800
it doesn't make me wonder because we
found out that the bar eventually closed due

547
00:37:53.800 --> 00:37:58.199
to on site gambling. But I
don't think that would be something egregious enough

548
00:37:58.239 --> 00:38:00.840
that Peter would confess that, oh, I run a bar where it was

549
00:38:00.880 --> 00:38:04.800
gambling, and Stanley would break off
all contact with him before he passed away.

550
00:38:04.800 --> 00:38:07.800
It had to be something a lot
more severe. So you have to

551
00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:10.199
sense that maybe who knows, maybe
Peter was involved in a murder or something

552
00:38:10.239 --> 00:38:15.320
like that, which is what you
can expect Stanley's reaction to be so harsh,

553
00:38:15.480 --> 00:38:20.119
or maybe the debt would pass to
him when he died, right,

554
00:38:20.119 --> 00:38:22.480
And that was the thing that they
said, Hey, you know what,

555
00:38:22.519 --> 00:38:25.199
the debt will pass to your brother
when you die. And so I would

556
00:38:25.199 --> 00:38:29.840
be pretty pissed off if that was
my sibling being like, hey, I'm

557
00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:32.559
going to die here in a few
weeks, I owe a million bucks and

558
00:38:32.760 --> 00:38:37.960
just some pretty nasty people, but
it's now your responsibility. That would make

559
00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:39.519
me be like, okay, Like
maybe I never want to talk to you

560
00:38:39.559 --> 00:38:44.840
again. That's also true. I
also think what's sad here is that Stanley,

561
00:38:45.400 --> 00:38:50.400
whatever Peter told him and whatever quote
might have been being looked for during

562
00:38:50.400 --> 00:38:55.719
this robbery, it's possible that Esther
didn't know what was there and she didn't

563
00:38:55.719 --> 00:39:00.679
know to tell them to look for
specific things, because if Stanley had hidden

564
00:39:00.079 --> 00:39:02.800
significant amounts of money, if he
had hidden a weapon, if he had

565
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:07.760
hidden drugs, if he had done
something to hide an item or items in

566
00:39:07.840 --> 00:39:12.280
his home, and Esther's telling the
police these are our things of value,

567
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:16.599
my jewelry, our television, right
his I don't know collection of this.

568
00:39:17.159 --> 00:39:23.400
She wouldn't know to tell them about
this information or this stuff that these robbers

569
00:39:23.400 --> 00:39:27.719
were looking for. So Dad puts
a huge kink in it as well.

570
00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:30.000
Maybe they did retrieve what they went
for, and it just so happened that

571
00:39:30.239 --> 00:39:35.760
Esther didn't know to say look for
this. Esther and Stanley were basically born

572
00:39:35.800 --> 00:39:38.960
at the turn of the century,
right, so at that time, I

573
00:39:39.000 --> 00:39:44.519
think the typical gender roles are going
to be more pronounced. This is nineteen

574
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.920
seventy six. I think that it
is entirely possible, like you said,

575
00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.480
Ash, that she may not have
known what he could have potentially had in

576
00:39:52.519 --> 00:39:55.079
the home, right, Like he
could have kept it from her either because

577
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:59.679
it was something he just didn't feel
like it was safe to share with her.

578
00:40:00.039 --> 00:40:02.880
He didn't want her to judge him, or it could have been something

579
00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:07.920
related to his brother or just something
that was like, this is completely separate

580
00:40:07.960 --> 00:40:10.000
from my wife. There's no need
to disclose it to her. I don't

581
00:40:10.000 --> 00:40:14.760
want her to worry type of a
thing. And it's not every it doesn't

582
00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:16.840
have to be something this big either, Like my husband does that to me,

583
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:20.639
Like I'll eventually find out something that
had happened you do at work or

584
00:40:20.679 --> 00:40:22.920
something, and he's I said,
why didn't you tell me? Or with

585
00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:23.760
our kids, or like, why
didn't you tell me? He's like,

586
00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:28.480
because your anxiety is really bad,
or like you were really struggling last week,

587
00:40:28.519 --> 00:40:30.239
why would I dump that on you? Or why would I give you

588
00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:34.400
that to worry about? Right?
Because it wasn't going to help for you

589
00:40:34.440 --> 00:40:37.400
to know, And so I didn't
want to hurt you either. So I

590
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:40.559
mean, maybe Stanley was something significant. I was really protecting her And people

591
00:40:40.599 --> 00:40:44.199
would go, oh, my goodness, how could he not tell her?

592
00:40:44.239 --> 00:40:46.360
Well, I think a lot of
spouses do that just to protect us from

593
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:51.440
even just the minute things that happened
in life. So by the time the

594
00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.280
investigation into Stanley's murder was reopened years
later, crucial evidence had disappeared without explanation,

595
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:00.119
but the authorities were able to get
the case featured an episode of Unsolved

596
00:41:00.119 --> 00:41:05.159
Mysteries which aired in October nineteen ninety. At the end of the segment,

597
00:41:05.360 --> 00:41:08.039
a photograph was displayed of a man
named Charles Brazinski, who happened to be

598
00:41:08.079 --> 00:41:14.079
a former employee at the aforementioned bar. Brazinski had been a wanted fugitive since

599
00:41:14.159 --> 00:41:19.000
nineteen seventy seven, as he jumped
bail while awaiting trial on unrelated drug charges

600
00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:22.719
and was believed to be living in
Phoenix. He had been interviewed by police

601
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.760
shortly after Stanley's murder and was now
considered to be a material witness in the

602
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:30.760
case. I have no idea if
Brazinski was ever found, but I did

603
00:41:30.800 --> 00:41:35.199
find an interesting threat at the Unsolved
Mysteries message board at these sitcoms online for

604
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:37.800
him, which I'm always referring to. In two thousand and five, a

605
00:41:37.880 --> 00:41:43.920
poster under the handle NYG Fan and
Jay claimed that he had an uncle named

606
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:47.079
Charles Brazinski, who bore a striking
resemblance to the man in the photo that

607
00:41:47.199 --> 00:41:52.079
was displayed during the Unsawd Mystery segment. According to NYG Fan and Jay.

608
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:55.519
His uncle had left the family to
go off on his own, but none

609
00:41:55.559 --> 00:41:59.679
of them had hurt from him in
over thirty years, so it seems like

610
00:41:59.719 --> 00:42:04.400
the of Charles Brazinski is an unsolved
mystery in its own right. Anyway,

611
00:42:04.480 --> 00:42:07.480
the Unsolved Mystery segment wound up generating
three hundred tips from viewers, and in

612
00:42:07.559 --> 00:42:12.159
January of nineteen ninety one, the
authorities announced that they now had a prime

613
00:42:12.280 --> 00:42:16.039
suspect whom they believe hired the two
men to kill Stanley. The suspect was

614
00:42:16.079 --> 00:42:20.000
not mentioned by name, but they
said he was living in the Syracuse,

615
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:22.920
Utica area at this point, and
it was theorized that he had Stanley murdered

616
00:42:23.079 --> 00:42:28.480
because he knew too much about illegal
activities which were taking place at his deceased

617
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.760
brother's bar. However, while investigators
thought they might have had enough evidence to

618
00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:36.440
get an indictment against this man,
they did not believe they had enough evidence

619
00:42:36.480 --> 00:42:40.760
to secure a conviction. Unfortunately,
the investigation pretty much hit another standstill,

620
00:42:42.039 --> 00:42:45.320
and the identities of the suspect and
the two men he allegedly hired had never

621
00:42:45.400 --> 00:42:51.360
been revealed publicly. The cases officially
still unsolved, and the full truth about

622
00:42:51.360 --> 00:42:55.360
the circumstances behind Stanley Griswick's murder remained
murky, So I guess you could say

623
00:42:55.679 --> 00:43:00.960
the path went Chiley. Okay,
So let me get this right. Charles

624
00:43:00.119 --> 00:43:06.719
is someone that they say we need
to talk to. They do not necessarily

625
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:08.559
name him as the prime suspect.
They just say, look, he worked

626
00:43:08.559 --> 00:43:13.559
at this bar, he likely knew
what was going on. So we have

627
00:43:13.800 --> 00:43:17.559
the person that's the main suspect,
and then the police think that that person

628
00:43:17.679 --> 00:43:22.000
hired two people from the bar to
go carry out this robbery and murder.

629
00:43:22.519 --> 00:43:27.280
That's what I'm thinking. Yeah,
we've gone over these scenarios about this guy

630
00:43:27.360 --> 00:43:30.360
paying off these two men at the
bar, and it seems likely that the

631
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:34.119
authorities know who these three men are
and believe that this was a payoff for

632
00:43:34.199 --> 00:43:37.199
Stanley's murder, but they just did
not have the evidence to arrest or indict

633
00:43:37.280 --> 00:43:40.280
any of these men. And we're
just waiting for new information to come in.

634
00:43:40.360 --> 00:43:45.159
So there's definitely a lot that they
probably have not revealed publicly. But

635
00:43:45.239 --> 00:43:47.719
the fact that they have not mentioned
these guys names but were willing to name

636
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.119
Charles Prazinski makes me think that he
was not one of the two men or

637
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.000
the guy making the payoff, and
that he was just someone that they thought

638
00:43:55.119 --> 00:44:00.760
might have crucial information that would help
them with the investigation. It's possible that

639
00:44:00.800 --> 00:44:02.199
the informant who came forward said,
like, I think they were hitting up

640
00:44:02.280 --> 00:44:06.360
Charles two to go, like I
you know, I said no, And

641
00:44:06.400 --> 00:44:09.519
I'm pretty sure they asked Charles and
he said no what I mean? But

642
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:13.480
maybe that could get them too.
Well, who was asking you? And

643
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:15.800
who did you go on the car
with? And who else was asked?

644
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:19.599
Do you know what I mean?
So it's possible he's one of those links

645
00:44:19.599 --> 00:44:22.400
in the chain and he's kind of
this lynch pin they need to find in

646
00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:28.280
order to get that information. But
they have this guy's name. They're pretty

647
00:44:28.360 --> 00:44:31.239
sure that they could charge this main
suspect with at least the plan to carry

648
00:44:31.239 --> 00:44:36.360
out the murder. But again,
there was such little evidence and it wasn't

649
00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:40.159
collected or preserved properly. The people
that came forward and had information, they

650
00:44:40.159 --> 00:44:45.719
were not taken seriously and their complaints
were not documented the way they should have

651
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:49.679
been. And so it's really hard
when you say we have an ability to

652
00:44:49.679 --> 00:44:52.119
get an indictment, meaning we have
a preponderance of the evidence right, fifty

653
00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:57.719
point one percent chance that we probably
have the right guy, but there's no

654
00:44:57.760 --> 00:45:01.400
way we could come to a ninety
nine point nine nine verdict right that he's

655
00:45:01.480 --> 00:45:06.039
guilty. They have to step back
and say, like, until somebody comes

656
00:45:06.119 --> 00:45:08.079
forward, typically in a cold case, right, unless someone comes forward,

657
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:12.360
or unless that showcasing was found and
it can be matched to a gun owned

658
00:45:12.400 --> 00:45:15.559
by one of these men, which
they probably didn't use their own guns,

659
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:19.239
then we wouldn't have any information.
So this is so sad and it has

660
00:45:19.280 --> 00:45:21.960
to be one of those cases the
detective just kind of bang their head against

661
00:45:21.960 --> 00:45:23.840
the wall and say, like,
I know who did this? How do

662
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:30.039
I prove it? I need someone
to bring forward information. Yeah, it

663
00:45:30.039 --> 00:45:31.840
just seemed like they were so close. When they aired this on Unsolved Mysteries,

664
00:45:31.880 --> 00:45:36.039
they probably felt, well, we've
had so many new witnesses and informants

665
00:45:36.079 --> 00:45:39.000
come forward in recent years. I
bet that when this is broadcast on national

666
00:45:39.039 --> 00:45:43.199
television, we're going to get additional
witnesses who are going to give us that

667
00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:45.599
one piece of evidence that's going to
allow us to make an arrest and close

668
00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:50.559
this case. But sadly, it
never came to fruition. Do you guys

669
00:45:50.559 --> 00:45:52.760
think that the police were involved in
that gambling and illegal betting, like I

670
00:45:52.800 --> 00:45:57.440
mean, and the illegal substance,
like they looked the other way and got

671
00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:00.840
a percentage of it, because that
was not unheard of in the sixties and

672
00:46:00.880 --> 00:46:05.320
seventies, that bars would be like
kind of have law enforcement officers that were

673
00:46:05.480 --> 00:46:08.480
dedicated to them, and in off
duty times they'd make sure other police officers

674
00:46:08.519 --> 00:46:13.079
weren't coming by there, and they'd
get a chunk of whatever money was coming

675
00:46:13.119 --> 00:46:15.719
and being funneled through that bar.
Looks like it's possible when you've got a

676
00:46:15.760 --> 00:46:21.199
detective putting a shellcasing in their pocket
and then leaving out the testimony of a

677
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:24.280
witness who seems to provide the identities
to them, I think you could be

678
00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.079
honest something. Oh definitely, Like
I'm thinking that even if the police weren't

679
00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:31.320
directly complicit in Stanley's murder, they're
probably thinking, well, if we launch

680
00:46:31.360 --> 00:46:36.400
an investigation, it's going to uncover
a lot of other illegal things we're doing,

681
00:46:36.440 --> 00:46:39.000
like our involvement with gambling activities at
this bar. So that's why we'd

682
00:46:39.000 --> 00:46:44.239
prefer to keep it hush hush.
Well, needless to say, I'm always

683
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.760
perturbed by cases in which ordinary law
abiding citizens who seem to have no dark

684
00:46:47.800 --> 00:46:52.639
secrets in their life are suddenly murdered
in what appears to be a professional hit.

685
00:46:52.000 --> 00:46:57.360
Yeahvidence clearly suggest that at least three
people were involved in Stanley Griesi's murder,

686
00:46:57.519 --> 00:47:00.760
and that he was killed after someone
paid off two and jewels to break

687
00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:04.519
into his house. It seems like
the authorities have a pretty good idea who

688
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:07.159
the perpetrators were, but the big
mystery here is what the motive could have

689
00:47:07.159 --> 00:47:10.760
been. I get the sense that
a lot of people in Rome probably knew

690
00:47:10.760 --> 00:47:15.920
who he was responsible, but the
investigation remained in limbo for over a decade

691
00:47:15.079 --> 00:47:19.920
until the right witnesses were willing to
talk. I have a feeling that the

692
00:47:19.920 --> 00:47:22.840
original investigators were content to let the
Kays die. But by the time the

693
00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:27.840
informant came forward in nineteen eighty nine, there were new detectives at the Rome

694
00:47:27.840 --> 00:47:31.119
Police Department and they were motivated to
jump start the investigation again and put it

695
00:47:31.159 --> 00:47:36.079
into the national spotlight. As far
as suspects go, we have the two

696
00:47:36.119 --> 00:47:38.760
men who broke into the greas at
home and the mastermind behind the plan who

697
00:47:38.840 --> 00:47:43.960
hired them to do it. This
mastermind has never been publicly named, but

698
00:47:44.039 --> 00:47:46.840
the impression seems to be that he
was heavily involved in criminal activity, and

699
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:50.920
it would not surprise me if he
had members of the Rome PD in his

700
00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.639
pocket back in nineteen seventy six who
helped him orchestrate a cover up. But

701
00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:00.159
the circumstances of how everything played out
are just so odd that a honest we

702
00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:05.800
can't decide if the case's original investigators
were corrupt or just outriding competent. I'm

703
00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:08.360
starting to lean towards corrupt, and
I don't like going there because a lot

704
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:13.440
of times you just have inexperienced small
town cops that don't know what they're doing.

705
00:48:13.840 --> 00:48:16.239
But here, I'm starting to feel
like if there really was this underground

706
00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:22.239
gambling an illegal drug trade there,
that the law enforcement agents were taking a

707
00:48:22.280 --> 00:48:25.320
big sum of money from the pot
that came in every night. So there

708
00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:29.320
was a case of like, what
was it eight officers in New York at

709
00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:32.960
one point, that we're doing a
cocaine the seven six, Yeah, tary

710
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:37.320
the cocaine ring, right, and
that they were running and making I mean

711
00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:42.039
like six times that they made at
the law enforcement office selling cocaine and covering

712
00:48:42.119 --> 00:48:46.039
up cocaine deals that people were making, and so I think it's very possible

713
00:48:46.280 --> 00:48:51.199
that these officers needed it to be
open shut. He got stabbed like they

714
00:48:51.239 --> 00:48:54.920
even had it where it wasn't the
right cause of death. And then they

715
00:48:54.960 --> 00:48:58.960
say, oh, give me that
evidence. Don't say anything, you know,

716
00:48:59.320 --> 00:49:02.440
hush hush, because again, we
don't want them digging into who Stanley

717
00:49:02.639 --> 00:49:06.760
was in finding out Peter worked at
this bar and finding out this guy at

718
00:49:06.760 --> 00:49:09.639
the bar was hired but never fell
through followed through with the murder. So

719
00:49:10.280 --> 00:49:15.719
very possible that we are leaning more
towards those original officers being corrupt. But

720
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:20.960
my god, what heroes are these
new detectives who get assigned to this case

721
00:49:20.960 --> 00:49:24.480
in the eighties and say what happened? Like something didn't go right, they

722
00:49:24.559 --> 00:49:28.960
dropped the ball, and we are
going to fight for this family and fight

723
00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:35.079
for perpetrators to be apprehended because they're
dangerous people. And it sounds like these

724
00:49:35.079 --> 00:49:38.360
new detectives really did fight hard to
say, look, we are close,

725
00:49:38.440 --> 00:49:44.519
we have information, we just need
a little more, and we're praying that

726
00:49:44.519 --> 00:49:47.679
that unsolved Mysteries case would bring that
about. And sadly, it doesn't sound

727
00:49:47.719 --> 00:49:52.800
like it did. It feels like
they did all the work that their predecessors

728
00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:54.880
should have done. And I'm sure
when they were looking at the case file

729
00:49:55.199 --> 00:50:00.400
they were just shaking their heads because
of all of these clear hole where they

730
00:50:00.440 --> 00:50:04.599
should have gone and pursued the leads, but they just didn't. And then

731
00:50:04.800 --> 00:50:07.320
I just I can't get over.
I mean, I understand that in nineteen

732
00:50:07.400 --> 00:50:14.079
seventy six, evidence collection wasn't what
it is today, but I still think

733
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:19.239
it is extremely bizarre to take a
shell casing from a family member and put

734
00:50:19.280 --> 00:50:22.039
it in your pocket, even if
it's just that that's really strange. But

735
00:50:22.119 --> 00:50:25.599
then to say to them like keep
it hush, hush, that makes me

736
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:30.119
think that, yeah, you're trying
to cover this up for some reason.

737
00:50:30.199 --> 00:50:35.639
And then in the aftermath the shell
casing goes missing. So it does seem

738
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:42.760
to be a potential where I'm leaning, like sixty forty towards some type of

739
00:50:42.760 --> 00:50:45.280
corruption. So I think this would
be a good end. So I think

740
00:50:45.280 --> 00:50:47.639
this would be a good time to
bring an end to Part one. But

741
00:50:47.760 --> 00:50:52.280
join us next week as we present
part two of our series about the murder

742
00:50:52.280 --> 00:50:54.960
of Stanley Gresick. Robin, do
you want to tell us a little bit

743
00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:59.840
about the Trail Went Cold Patreon.
Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been

744
00:51:00.239 --> 00:51:05.119
for three years now, and we
offer the standard bonus features like early ad

745
00:51:05.159 --> 00:51:08.679
free episodes, and I also send
out stickers and sign thank you cards to

746
00:51:08.719 --> 00:51:13.239
anyone who signs up with us on
Patreon. If you join our five dollar

747
00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:17.920
tier Tier two, we also offer
monthly bonus episodes in which I talk about

748
00:51:19.000 --> 00:51:22.840
cases which are not featured on the
Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're

749
00:51:22.840 --> 00:51:25.760
exclusive to Patreon, and if you
join our highest tier tier three, the

750
00:51:25.840 --> 00:51:30.519
ten dollar tier. One of the
features we offer is a audio commentary track

751
00:51:30.559 --> 00:51:36.440
over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries,
where you can download an audio file and

752
00:51:36.480 --> 00:51:42.119
then boot up the original UNSAWD Mysteries
episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play

753
00:51:42.159 --> 00:51:45.039
it with my audio commentary playing in
the background, where I just provide trivia

754
00:51:45.079 --> 00:51:50.639
and factoids about the cases featured in
this episode. And incidentally, the very

755
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:54.159
first episode that I did a commentary
track over was the episode featuring this case.

756
00:51:54.239 --> 00:51:58.679
So if you want to download a
commentary track in which I make more

757
00:51:58.760 --> 00:52:02.199
smartass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then
be sure to join Tier three. So

758
00:52:02.239 --> 00:52:06.280
I want to let you know a
little bit about the Jewels and Ashley Patreon,

759
00:52:06.480 --> 00:52:09.360
so there's early ad free episodes of
The Path Went Chili. We've got

760
00:52:09.400 --> 00:52:13.719
our Path Went Chili vinis, which
are always over an hour, so they're

761
00:52:13.800 --> 00:52:16.039
not very many, but they're just
too short to turn into a series and

762
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:21.000
we're really enjoying doing those, so
we hope you'll check out those Patreons will

763
00:52:21.039 --> 00:52:23.119
link them in the show notes.
So I want to thank you all for

764
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:27.559
listening, and any chance you have
to share us on social media with a

765
00:52:27.599 --> 00:52:30.159
friend or to rate and review is
greatly appreciate it. You can email us

766
00:52:30.199 --> 00:52:34.519
at The Path Went Chili at gmail
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767
00:52:34.559 --> 00:52:37.320
Twitter at the Pathwin. So until
next time, be sure to bundle up

768
00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:43.159
because cold Trails and Chili pass Call
for warm clothing music by Paul Rich from

769
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:45.119
the podcast Cold Callers Comedy