Understand the thinking atheist. It's not a person, it's a symbol, an
idea. The population of atheists this country is going through the rule, rejecting
faith, pursuing knowledge, challenging the sacred. If I tell the truth,
it's because I tell the truth, not because I put my hand on a
book and made a wish and working together for a more rational world. Take
the risk of thinking, feels so much more happiness. Truth Usian wisdom will
come to you that way. Assume nothing, question everything, and start thinking.
This is the Thinking Atheist podcast hosted by Seth Andrews. It has already
been a day, just one of those days where the morning set the tone
for everything else. And I have come to the conclusion that anybody who either
is the parent of a child or has an animal in their house as a
member of their family a pet, knows what it's like to have one of
those days. A day when you wake up and you notice or smell something
horrible, and then you spend who knows how long attending to the stinky end,
the wrong end of your family member. You got to get out the
paper towel and the spray bottle or the handy wipes or whatever. I'm trying
not to give you too much detail. I don't want to put you off.
I want to attract listeners, not repel them. But I know you
know what I'm talking about. We got Cat about twelve years ago. His
name is Cat. We spell it with a K. He's very Persian and
he has become a lot more needy and lovey in the last year. I
have no idea what that's about. Used to be, he would be in
your zip code. If he was feeling hugely generous, he would lean up
against you just a bit, you know, the generosity of the king to
allow the jester in his court, in his throne room kind of thing.
But he wasn't a lap cat, and I've always had a lapcat, so
it was weird, like why are you so stand offish? Until about a
year ago, and all of a sudden, he would start to just jump
up onto my chest. Anytime I lay down on the couch or sat back
in the bed or whatever, he would just jump up and he would flatten
out where it was warm, and he would per per like nobody's business,
and it was kind of zen. It was really relaxing. We would just
hang out there and I'm like, oh, he's a lovey kiddy now right,
And I appreciate that. And I'm so thankful that he was not lying
on my chest last night, because when I woke up and he was sitting
on the other side of the bed, he had left a very stinky residue.
He is obviously not feeling well. I have a veterinary appointment scheduled for
later. I don't know if he got into some bad food or it's a
bug or something, but I'm really struggling here. But there is some nasty,
nasty. It's nasty, and he is a Persian, so he's got
this long fur. Sometimes we take him in to get it shaped back a
little bit because it mats up. He's hard to brush. He panics and
freaks out. So you know, he has this long, long fur and
it catches all of the nasty stuff that's coming out of it. And there
it is on the sheets and the bed. This is how he started my
day. Blah and the smell, oh my god, cats like a big
fuzzy septic tank. Natalie's out of town. She had to rush off to
Denver for a business thing. She's gone till tomorrow. So now I'm stuck
with this nasty cat, and I'm supposed to get it clean by myself.
Someone on the internet told me of the burrito method. I had not heard
of this, but the burrito The burrito method is where you take your cat
and you roll him in a towel like a burrito so that his claws are
concealed and you are not going to you know, bleed to death. Which
is a problem because the last time this happened, I got scratched up pretty
good. You know, I looked like I was I've been muled by a
wild beast. And so I am alone this morning, seven o'clock. Grab
a towel, grab the cat. I burrito the animal, and then I
spend I don't know how long wrestling him into the sink because I try to
spray him down. The cat's making that sound. Ah, he just feels
like he's dying. It's just horrible. The dogs are freaking out because it's
traumatizing. This isn't how they wanted to start their day either. And then
I'm going around the house. I'm just cleaning. I'm cleaning all morning.
There's a spot, there's a spot there, it's a spot, there's No,
there's no glamour in being the parent of a child or the owner of
a pet, because at some point we have all been there. It's not
cuteness and purring and cuddles and fuzz and walks and yips and barks and happiness
and joy joy. It is. I am trying not to end up in
the urgent care while my burritoed cat sounds like he is being stretched on the
rack during the inquisition. Anyway, we're gonna go to the vet. I
told Natalie on the phone. I said, if they're gonna give him an
injection, I don't even want to be in the zip code. I'm just
gonna get in my car. Look, I'm gonna run down to a drive
through. You know what I'm saying. You have fun with that. That's
what they pay you for. If there's a needle and my cat involved,
I am out. I don't even want to be around for that, because,
oh my god, he's gonna flip. He's gonna be so mad.
Speaking of drive throughs, and that's an unintended segue, but it's perfect because
I wanted to tell you this story. I was thinking about it. I
was telling naw To about it. On the phone this morning because it was
kind of amazing. It happened last night, and it's something I wanted to
share. I don't know, maybe it will inspice. Since I've taken you
down that other road with nasty cat ass in it, I wanted to turn
things around, maybe give you a smile and a little bit of encouragement,
because I had a moment last night. Okay, it was at a drive
through. Of all places, there's a little Chinese restaurant pretty close to where
we live. It's been around forever. You've seen them, those little like
egg Roll Garden or China Express type places, the little boxy restaurant with a
drive through, and the menu has everything lettered so in case you can't pronounce
some of the dishes, you just go, well, give me an A
one and an R three and a D seven, and everybody knows what you
want. And you cruise through the drive through and they give you everything in
styrofoam containers, and then you drive home to eat it. They may have
a little dining room, this one does. I'm telling you, for twenty
years, I've been going to this place, and for twenty years, the
same woman has been running the drive through. Obviously she's the owner. I'm
guessing maybe she and her husband, who's the chef or the cook in the
back. But twenty years ago, when I would go through that spot,
the same woman in her fifties at the time, because she's got to be
in her mid seventies now still there. So I pull around to the window
and she takes my card and she's waiting on the food to be done.
I ordered a combo sweet and sour chicken and chow maine with fried rice,
thirteen bucks or whatever. And I was watching her through the window, and
I noticed that she wasn't mad, she wasn't happy, she was kind of
vacant. I got the impression all of a sudden that she has been doing
what she does for so long that I'll bet she doesn't even feel it anymore.
Hello, Can I take your order? A three R one D seven
Thank you, pularun thirteen dollars eighty cents. Thank you, have a good
day. Over and over and over and over. She looked world weary,
she looked worn down. Who knows, maybe she and her husband put every
penny they had into this humble little restaurant. It's all they have it's all
they do. It seems like they're always there. She's always there, and
I was watching her, and I thought, I don't see any joy on
this woman. I see duty, I see work ethic. I see bills
to pay. I see there may not be anybody else to do it,
or I can't afford to pay anybody else to do it. I just see
a routine and so on a whim. And this sounds noble when I say
it out loud, but it really wasn't. It was just an idea.
I reached down and grab my wallet, and I happen to have a twenty
dollar bill, which is weird because usually I don't even have cash anymore.
It's all plastic debit cards and such. But there it was a twenty dollar
bill. So I pulled it out, and I was waiting. She's inside
the glass and she's waiting for the order to be done, and then she
puts it in the plastic bag and she ties it up, and she opens
the window gives it to me, thank you, have a good day.
Barely looking at me. She is giving her five hundred thousandth order through that
piece of glass, probably aching to go home and rest her feet and so
I took the food and I looked at her and I said, you are
always worse king and she paused. She was startled, really like I was
talking to her. I wasn't looking at the order taker. I was talking
to her the person, and she was stunned. She didn't say anything.
I said, you are always here all the time. Yeah, yes,
I'm here. I'm here very often. I'm very here all the time,
you know. And I said, do you ever get a day off?
Well? No, yeah, sometimes, you know, the English is kind
of broken a little bit, but she's communicating, yeah, you know,
sometimes I get a night off, day off, you know, occasionally.
But you could tell that she was a workaholic, probably by necessity. And
so I reached over and I grabbed my twenty and I handed it to her
through the window, and she took it before she really what was going on,
Like she knew I was giving her something, but she just like,
what is this? And then she realized a twenty dollar bill. This is
more than the order. She's like no, no, no, no,
no no no no no too much, too much? No, I said,
no, I want you to take that. I won't take it.
I won't take it too much money, too much money. Thank you.
Though no no, no, I won't take it. I insist you take
it. And then I said this over and over because I didn't think she
could argue with this. I said, it makes me happy. It makes
me happy. It makes me happy, It makes me happy. And I'm
smiling at her. She was sitting there with the open drive through window,
holding a twenty dollar bill she doesn't know what to do with. And this
woman broke out into the biggest smile you have ever seen. She was no
longer punching the clock. She was no longer just an order taker at that
moment. And somebody saw her and she just exploded in a smile. You
should have seen her. She lit up like a freaking Christmas tree. It
was like she came to life, like the dead had arisen, you know.
And so I started to drive off because I was afraid she was going
to like throw the twenty back in my open window, but I waved up.
Makes me happy, thank you, makes me happy to have a good
day, have a good day. So I'm cruising off and she's smiling,
thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, and I am
I must have been ten twelve fifteen feet from the window. My car window
is still down. I can see her. She sticks her whole torso out
the drive through window and goes, thank you for the tip. And I
stuck my head out the window and looked back and I said, you're welcome.
And I drove off and I was just grinning all way home. I
told Natalie about it, and she thought it was charming as well. And
I know it sounds like a lifetime movie. But you've heard me on this
show talk about fighting despair, trying to seek out and find the good,
to reignite the good in my own life because life's short. I need good.
I need good, and I've become desperate to see us try to engage
other people without so many disqualifiers. That woman, I don't even know her
name. I don't know if she goes to church. Is she religious?
Maybe what kind of religion? I have no idea. I doubt it's Baptist.
Yeah, maybe she and her husband practice a kind of Eastern religion or
a Buddhist faith. Who knows, but it didn't matter in the moment.
What are your interests, Where do you live, what kind of what home
do you have? What is your background? All of those things might be
relevant in some context, but at that second in time, it was just
about two human beings grinning at each other like idiots. It was about a
small kindness which wasn't small at all. There are no little things right.
Every day presents that kind of opportunity. Somebody's walking into a building, They're
fifteen feet away. For some reason, we open the door and then we
just wait for them. We hold it. It's not like they can't open
the door for themselves, but this is our way of saying, hey,
come on, I got your door for you, no problem. You're walking
somewhere and you see two or three people who are attempting to take a selfie,
but they're struggling because somebody's arm isn't long enough and they can't get all
three faces on screen. So what do you do? You walk up and
you go, hey, you guys want your picture? I got that.
Hey, stand over here because the light's better. Oh you look great?
Okay. Do you want it vertical or do you want it horizontal? Okay?
Wonderful? All right here we go. Everybody three to one snap.
Let me take another one, three to one snap. Okay, check them,
make sure that I got what you want. You happy, and everybody
smiles. Thank you, thank you, thank you. That is not a
small thing. You have no idea who those people are, but you did
something amazing for them, and you help them preserve a second in time and
make it forever. Somebody's got car trouble, you pull over and say,
can I give you a hand? I'm lousy at this because I know nothing
about cars. And you got to be careful because people have to be concerned,
legitimately concerned about who is coming to quote unquote help them. But you
get it right. Usually almost always it's someone genuinely trying to assist, and
that's a beautiful thing. We've got a neighbor across the street. She is
of the Jewish faith. She's also one of the best people we know and
a wonderful woman. She's got a garden in her backyard. She loves gardening,
and at random she just shows up at the door with stuff. Hey,
I've got extra basil in the back. I know you guys like that.
The tomato crop came in really well, here's a bunch of tomatoes.
I put them in a sack for you. Just take them. Enjoy.
We're always checking on each other when we travel? Can you get the box
off my porch? Would you check my mail? Somebody needs to get into
the backyard. Can you let him in? Can you do that? Hey?
While I'm gone, If you see a big moving truck back up,
would you call me right? Well, that's a small thing. That's not
a small thing. It's just people looking out for each other. And who
gives a shit? Where they go to church? You take hot chocolate?
How to the mailman on a chilly December day? What do you do on
a rainy day? You see somebody who doesn't have an umbrella, and you
do. It's obvious they're desperately trying not to get too wet. You run
over, stick the umbrella up, or you give it to them, and
then you take the hit and you walk in the door soaking wet. Why
not? What's that cost you? You're stuck in traffic, checking your watch,
stressed out because you're probably going to be late to wherever you were supposed
to be ten minutes ago. And you see somebody else who is stuck in
traffic checking their watch, maybe running late to wherever they need to be,
And what do you do? The light turns green? Everybody else goes there's
a space in front of you, and you stay stopped and wave go ahead,
hop in there. I'll make a spot for you. Go ahead,
get where you gotta go. We don't do that for the assholes that drive
up on the shoulder and then purposefully try to wage in front of us.
We have to teach those people a lesson. They get no quarter. But
everybody else, we're all in the same boat. We're driving the same road.
Here's a space. Take it. Have a good day. You buy
some Starbucks on your way into the office, and you remember that your coworker
loves a machiato. So what do you do. You buy a machiato and
you show up and put it in front of him and say, hey,
I got this for you. Have a good one. I had a coworker
once and he had a note on his desk and it said, make someone
feel important today. I know it sounds sacherin, but make someone feel important
today. At least make them feel seen and noticed today. I don't know.
I has almost nothing to do with anything else that's going on, But
how can I not tell you that story about the woman in the drive through
who may still today be thinking about that guy, total stranger who saw her
for just a few seconds. Maybe it's the breath of oxygen she needed that'll
carry her on for another another few weeks. I mean, I don't know.
Maybe that's a rather noble accounting. Maybe I'm giving myself too much credit.
But go out and make somebody feel important today, make him feel seen
today. Okay, wash an angry cat's ass today. Actually that's not a
small thing. That would be a that's a herculean effort and quite dangerous.
Maybe that's a bad example. I don't know. Let me take a short
break and we'll come back and see what you want to talk about in just
a second. Oh my goodness, my speaking roster and the tour schedule has
gotten busy. Kansas City on April the seventh, Sunday morning, Kansas City,
I hope you can join us. Coming up also Los Angeles, Little
Rock, Arkansas, Denver, Colorado, Saint Louis, Missouri, Dallas,
Houston, Sarnia, Ontario, Toronto, Lexington, Bentonville. And I think
there may be another city or two that's being added. It's all a blur.
I have to go to my own website to remember where I'm going and
you can too, Seth Andrews dot com slash events. I would love to
see you at one of these speaking events that I'm doing all around the country
and north of our border. Seven one nine, Matt, thanks for calling.
What's on your mind? Well, I have a conundrum that I've been
thinking about and applied your advice. I'm join the army next month, I
should vow, and I'm debating what to do on Sundays. One day I'll
have off of basic training. You know, I have a you'll be clean,
you clean the barracks. I hear understand only that day, but you
can go to service. You can go to service and get a break time
basically from cleaning. I'm just wondering if it's worth having time off of cleaning
or should I not worry about it and stake more srure to my principles.
Could it be the first time of me going to church in over a decade.
Let's make sure I'm understanding. They will give you time off if you
go to religious service to go and sit, But if you opt out of
church, then you're doing what you're cleaning toilets. Well, you have to
clean the barracks. You know he cleans clean and all that. Certainly everyone
has to do anyway, but just people who have a service to go to
they can. They have a list of options from I understand. I think
it don't mind you go and even just sleep in the back a little bit,
as long as you're you know, quiet and whatnot. I just don't
know if I want to break a principle by going to church. I can't
tell you whether or not to go. I'm not convinced it's a betrayal of
your conviction, unless your conviction is to never step in the building. If
you want to use them, fine, I'll go in there. I'll sit
in the back, I'll sit on my phone, I'll take a nap,
I'll do whatever. I think you have every right to do that if you
decide you want to. It doesn't mean that you are endorsing the religion.
I think it just means you know how to work the system. But if
it's a matter of conviction, that's certainly an internal conversation that only you can
have with yourself. I mean, if it was a choice between hanging back
relaxing, I can tune out a preacher with the best of them. I
think most of us have probably developed that skill, and it was either that
or going out and you know, scratching floors and washing walls and cleaning toilets.
And I felt like maybe the people who got the church option were being
shown favoritism. I might work that system. I might sneak in the back
and say, fine, I'll hang out and do my thing, but I
would never consider it an endorsement of the religion. And then I think,
in my off hours, I would probably file some kind of complaints that religious
services were being given preferential treatment. Why do we not have a secular option
available to the non religious? I would certainly make that protest. Only you
can decide if you want to stir the waters, you know, politically,
if it's worth it to you. But that's my two cents. Well,
I appreciate it, Seth, Thank you very much, thanks for calling.
Catch you later, yeap. What would you do? Would you go?
Would you sit in the back. You don't have to say the prayer,
don't have to close your eyes, don't have to even listen to what's being
said. You might even make it a forensic experiment listening to all the crap
that's being told or taught or not being told or taught, and you're like,
hmm, that's interesting. So that's what they're doing. But there's no
doubt in my mind I would be saying, hey, wait a minute,
is there a humanist gathering? Is there a secular assembly, a place for
people who were not religious to go and hang out and maybe learn science and
just do people stuff. Because this is a double standard if you aren't going
to do something for all of us, only for the religious, likely for
Christians. Two five three, Dan, are you with me? Yes,
as youre am. Thanks for calling, Dan. What do you want to
talk about? Well, there was a passage in the Bible. Well,
now, I'm an atheist, and the only reason I like to look these
things up is so I have ammunition against my sister who belongs to one of
those megachurches, and I know things that she doesn't and it really makes her
mad. But there's a passage where God is admonished by the other gods for
punishing the Jews too bad at one time, or punishing somebody too hard.
I don't know that verse. Where is it. I think it was.
I think it's Ezekiel nineteen or seventeen, something like that. But I can
never discipline myself hard enough to actually keep reading the Bible to find it.
The equivalent of Zeus and Krishna and the flying spaghetti monster calling yahweh out for
being a jerk to his own chosen people exactly. But I can't find anymore.
Well, let's see what our people come up with. Put it in
the comments section. I'd like to go back. Could I tell you something
else I like to do. Yeah, whenever Mormons come to the door,
I like to invite him in, because actually Mormons are nice people. And
I bring out my Book of Mormon, and I show them where the first
day where the Angel came to Joseph Smith was September twenty first, and I
tell them how when Earth went in fire wrote that song September. They put
September twenty first as the date. I say that was because it came out
shortly after black people were allowed to be priests. The Mormons let them be
priests, and that was celebration of that. And these Mormon boys, they're
just well what and they just can't believe it. I would hate to do
what they do. They have this expectation that they have to do their mission
banging on doors intruding into people's homes. Who knows how much shit they get.
But at the same time they have to deal with us. We know
often much more about their religion than they do. But it's nice that you're
kind to them, Like you don't beat them over the head of the baseball
bat, right You're you're a human being to them. No, And even
when I tell them that, I tell them, you know, it's just
my opinion, and I do treat them good. I actually haven't signed my
Book of Mormon and do and I got about fifteen or eighteen names in there
something like that. But they're actually good kids, you know. And it's
like I heard one of the people say on I think it was one of
your shows, how when you're a baby and your parents raise you, you
believe everything they say. And then when they in doctrine you into religion,
of course you believe that because they've been protecting you your whole life. They
would never lie to you. And that's how it all happens, you know,
from the bottom up. Mostly I appreciate your kindness. Not everybody has
the bandwidth to be able to open their door and have a conversation, but
the fact that you didn't say fuck you, get off my porch, which
is tempting given that our homes are our castles in private spaces. The fact
that you didn't do that may have given them the impression that, hey,
here's a non believer who's actually kind and good and gracious and human. I
admire that and respect it. Thanks for sharing it, brother, and have
a good week. Okay, really good to talk to you all right,
hang in there, We'll see you later. Two eight one. I've got
John. Thanks for calling? What John? Hi, Seth. It's good
to talk to you again. How long has it been, Oh, just
a few weeks. I called for the first time a few weeks ago just
to thank you for everything that you do. But this time I really want
to talk about how it really grinds my gears and makes me really angry whenever
theists think that just because I don't believe in God, they think that I
have no morals, that I have nothing to base my morals off of,
and it just really pisses me off sometimes. How do you respond that my
morality comes from empathy and from common sense, which basically means that which I
wouldn't want done to me, I would not do to others. Like the
other day, I was talking to somebody who was a Christian and he told
me, well, since you're an atheist, you must be okay with people
trafficking children. I'm just like, no, I wouldn't want others to do
to me what I wouldn't do to others. I wouldn't want my own children
to be trafficked, so I wouldn't want my I wouldn't traffic anybody else's.
And even then I even tell people, well, you really we should read
your Bible, and I say read and not reread, because I can tell
you that you haven't read it. Because in passages like Numbers twenty five,
God told the Israelites to kill many men, well all of them, and
actually all of the non virgin women, boys and infant boys, and to
only spare virgin girls. And the entire Book of Joshua, there is so
much genocide, and God is even okay with slavery if you look at Leviticus
twenty five and Exodus twenty one, like this is disgusting, and supposedly from
Christians, this is divine morality, and I just don't understand how they can
defend things like this. I think the reasons may be as diverse as the
people themselves. I think some simply have been brainwashed to think no one can
be moral without God. I think other people want to shoot the messenger when
we come and criticize their religion. So hey, why not say we would
support Hitler, you know, or we would go out and rape and kill
if it wasn't for their God. I think a lot of people use it
to stop conversation. I mean, it's an accusation really when you hear it
in that way, well, how do you know rape and murder are wrong?
Is really an accusation that an atheist doesn't know rape and murder are wrong,
which is an offensive thing to say in that way. I understand your
frustration. Oh yeah, it's very frustrating. I agree. And all the
time a lot of theists will tell me, well, you know Hitler was
an atheist. No, he wasn't. He was a Christian. He was
a Catholic, and in fact he hated the Jews for religious reasons. He
also referenced the Christian God in mind comp and had God with us on the
belt buckles of SS officers. There have been a lot, and there's been
books. There's a lot of ink been spilled on Hitler, and then we
find them saying, well, Hitler was smart enough to have weaponized the religion.
He's an atheist, but he knew politically aligning with the Catholic Church and
invoking the Christian God would buy him political and even popular capital. So he
didn't really mean it when it's a total skate and it's frustrating to hear.
But I think many people share your frustration. I celebrate you as a moral
creature, and your evolved morality is helping to make a difference in this world.
You are one of the good ones, or at least that's my hope.
Brother, So thanks for calling the show. Thanks for taking my call.
See you later. He said something that I wanted to come back to,
and he used the word common sense. I used to think, oh,
good, common sense, and then we would always say, well,
common sense isn't common at all. But I used to use the words to
the phrase common sense, as we all need this. But psychologists have addressed
the idea of common sense and how it may not necessarily be a good thing.
So I took the liberty of pulling up an article from Psychology Today called
the problem with common sense, And I'm scrolling down to a paragraph and it
says common sense is common because many people are perceived to believe it. The
problem is that doesn't make it true. Looks like a duck walks like a
duck is common sense? But consider looks like a gator walks like a gator?
Will lots of people confuse alligators and crocodiles. Why do so many people
misspell, lose and loose? Why do so many people say literally when they
mean figuratively? Common isn't a good enough criterion to make something true? And
so again I don't think we want to be pedantic here. I understand the
larger point, right, engage brain, use your rationality, vet your sources,
find out what is true. But common sense. I had to evolve
my own thinking on this, and I still sort of navigate that when I
talk about common sense and the calliquial sense. I think people understand what I
mean, But common sense, you know, there's more to it from a
psychology standpoint, and so we might guard our language whenever we use that in
conversation. I've got two one eight, Hi, what's your name? Nat?
Like the bug only minus the g Thanks for calling that what's on your
mind? Well, I was just calling to talk about the whole thing about
Next Benedict, that poor trans kid that died recently after getting jumped in the
bathroom. I am kind of like a gentle giant, and I've been picked
on a lot and dealt with a lot of crap. And the people who
treated me decent looked a lot more like Next Benedict, and the people who
treated me like crap. If you will allow me quickly, there are some
people who are listening to you and me and they hear Next Benedict, and
they don't know what we're talking about. So can I frame it quickly before
we go any further? Would that be going? Yeah, okay, go
ahead. Next ben Atitt was a student actually in my relative zip code in
the suburb of Tulsa, a non binary student at o Wasso High School.
And there was a confrontation, bullied bullying. Next was bullied by some people
who assaulted and beat Next in a bathroom. That assault resulted in cuts and
bruises and ended up in the hospital. I mean, this was just hate
and bigotry and smallness, and it's one of those things where we've got people
like our Superintendent of Public Instruction, even our governor, and they're going off
on the woke and the woke ism, and so people like Next have been
vilified in that way. So Next goes to the hospital with these injuries and
dies the next day, and everybody said, oh, you know was beaten
to death, which was I think a reasonable assumption given what had happened the
assault itself. There was just an autopsy report released. The manner of death
ruled as suicide, the probable cause of death being diaphenhydramine and fluexitine combining toxicity,
according to the Oklahoma Medical Examiner's Office. So the thinking is is that,
yeah, there were physical injuries, but the chemicals in the body actually
explain the death more than the cuts and bruises. Now this is a challenge,
right because this is a hot button issue. You and I are pissed
off about the hate, about the assault, about the lack of safety,
the danger to trans people, non binary people. It's our fellow human beings.
And so my first inclination is to say, well, that's a bunch
of bullshit. Oklahoma's covering its tracks. We know Next was beaten to death,
but I don't believe that is actually true, and I've had to will
myself past this sort of you know, knee jerk into screw this state because
Ryan Walters makes me crazy and understand that chemically, it looks like the substances
in Nexx's blood were responsible for the death itself. But that then becomes a
separate issue because we're still talking about the assault in the bathroom at a high
school where Necks was supposed to be safe, and the lack of outrage by
an entire culture of Oklahomans and Americans means that it might be less safe for
the next person who goes in there. It's just so madening. So anyway,
that's the context, and you are understandably outraged. Yeah, I have
quite a few friends in the trans community, in the GLBT community. They
have treated me with nothing but respect and kindness. And the people that I
hear having the most problems with the trans community and all that tend to be
the ones that have really, in my experience, have been the real douche
nozzles, the ones that have treated me like shit, like I was something
foul they stepped in. And the whole idea of everything that people are saying
about the trans community is utter horseshit. Take the whole bathroom saying how they
were worried about dudes pretending to be trans just so they can get into a
woman's restroom and do that shit. They're worried about trans people doing stuff to
kids. If we want to see grooming, I've seen two headlines just in
the month of March about pastors convicted youth pastors are regular pastors who were grooming
kids sexually assaulting the kids. So our outrage is under standable. And mostly
you and I are confronted by small people who wants everybody else to look like
them and sound like them, and vote like them, and worship like them.
And I think they're tremendously insecure. I think the secure person looks around
and says, Wow, what a wide, wild spectrum of humanity, and
we all get a chance to share the world together. I mean, that's
a much more beautiful place to be. And I think, you know,
the ugly heart just doesn't get there, doesn't want to get there, And
so your outrage is understandable. And the best we can do, I think,
is to advocate for the next benedicts that are still with us. And
I appreciate your call very much. You hang in there. Okay, well
see bye bye, one more short break. I'll be right back and we'll
go to the phones again next. Thank you so much for listening and thanks
for your support. You want the broadcast totally commercial free, and you want
to get it a couple of days early. Become a patron Patreon dot com
slash seth Andrews really matters makes a difference. Thank you for your support.
Is it Jose at nine to five one? Thanks for calling? What do
you want to talk about? So? I'm a lot like you, Like
I grew up very Catholic, you know, Monday Bible Study, Tuesday youth
group, Wednesday choir practice. Then the weekend was all church, going to
Mass and all that kind of jazz. So eventually I'm forty one years old
now. But when I turned thirty five, I really the bug hit me
to start, you know, really questioning what I believe in and why I
believe in and all that kind of stuff. And I came to the conclusion
that I'm an atheist because I found that I have no real good reason to
believe any of it. However, I've always struggled with my family because my
dad's a deacon in the Catholic Church. So how do I deal with that
kind of clash of lifestyles where I pretty much live a completely secular lifestyle,
whereas you know, I don't deal with any religion stuff. But every time
I go visit family, I'm sort of bombarded with, oh, well,
when are we gonna go to church? When are you gonna have a little
boy? You know, when now you're gonna go get them baptized. I
hate living like that. I've never come out to them and told them like,
look, I'm not I'm an atheist. I don't believe because I feel
like it's gonna crush them to their core. You know what I'm saying.
I know exactly what you're saying. So they're not onto you, or maybe
they suspect we've had talks. I'm sure they suspect. My dad has always
you know, anytime that we have those kind of conversations, he's always just
like, well, you know, look for Jesus and look in the Bible,
go study, go seek them out, and then you'll give your answers.
But I've never found a good answer for anything. I am always grieved
when I see people who. They're not living a fully authentic life around everybody
because of that kind of blowback, which is not your fault. It's your
father's fault, even if he means it from the most sincere of ways.
The fact that you are worried about whether or not he's going to melt down
and cry and shout and be disappointed, and it's going to just ruin your
relationship. That problem is a dad problem. It is not a jose problem.
Your dad would never abide somebody telling him that he could not live authentically.
He's like, I'm going to live my faith. I'm going to be
my this is who I am. Who's going to tell me I can't be
me? Then his son is over here literally wringing his hands, going,
God, if I say something to Dad, the shit's going to hit the
fan. How much of this grief do I need? Is that what I'm
hearing from you? Yeah, well, my dad, I'm sure my dad
could deal with it a little bit better. My mom, I feel like
she's going to be the one that really I feel like her world will collapse
if she hears me say those words. Only you can decide if coming out
to them is the right move. For you. My one thing that I
would say, and it cost me. My mother and I do not speak.
She is blocked on my phone. We don't converse, we don't interact.
There was a boundary violation of several that have caused it cost us the
relationship, and it's her fault. But not everybody is prepared to do that.
The cost benefit for everybody, it may not be worth it. If
you want to be a little more, I don't know. I hate the
word silent. But if you want to play chestnut checkers, if you want
to just not rock the boat because the relationship with them and the lack of
conflict is worth it to you, I would not you for not wearing it
on your sleeve. But I am struck by the double standard. You are
the one having to do all the bending man, You're the one having to
say, ah, my god. I don't want to be too open about
who I am, what I think, what my values are, because it'll
make other people uncomfortable. That's rough, and I'm convinced that it's healthy,
even if it freaks them out, even if they lose their minds. I
think it's healthy for it religious people to know that we are here we are
all around them. There are more of us than they may think, and
we are good, moral, equal human beings. And that's my desire for
you. But I can't tell you whether it's worth it at this measure.
I don't know how bad it's going to get. I don't know what it's
going to cost you personally. That's a very intimate personal decision that only you
can make. I just want to be able to live in harmony because I
love my parents deeply. They're great people like us. I couldn't think of
a more respectable person than my father, because I know him personally. I
know that kind of person. He is my mother as well. But you
know, my mom's a little bit more old school, a little bit more
judgmental. She's the kind of the pearl clutcher anytime she sees like a gay
couple and shit like that. The thing about it is that, you know,
they're such great, respectable people. I want them in my life because
they are great people, not just because they're my parents, but they're great
people as a whole. So I don't want to break that relationship down if
I just have to live my life or the rest of their lives in this
fashion, then so be it kind of pains me, yes, Jose.
If you tell them you are not a Christian or a Catholic, or you
don't believe in God and the relationship breaks down, you didn't break it.
Okay, That's all I'm trying to say. If they lose their mind,
if they start to put up walls, if your mom starts to clutch those
pearls when it comes to you, she starts to treat you like the other
people she's discriminating against. She may be good in all these other areas,
but we have to face the fact that she's being bigoted against human beings,
a marginalized group of good people who deserve better. If your relationship breaks down,
you didn't break it. Your mother and potentially your father broke it because
they cannot or will not exist in a circumstance of equality respect even respectful disagreement.
There will be shouts and tears and emotional blackmail and consequences and conflict,
and all of that shit's going to be their fault. And so go at
your own speed. But it's my hope for you, brother, that at
some point you give yourself the same latitude that they give themselves every single day
personally, though, I'm encouraged by you to bust out of the Catholic faith,
to make that journey right, to check things out, to kick the
tires, to to do what you have done and honestly and get where you
are is huge. I am just tremendously inspired by you, and I want
you to know that, Jose, I appreciate that. Brother. Just one
last thing. When I was a kid, I went to a Catholic retreat
with my dad and we had this experience of a perceived demonic possession. And
I say perceived because I couldn't tell you exactly what happened, but I saw
what happened, you know what I'm saying. So now my dad has this
guilt trip on me where anytime we have these conversations and I told them pretty
much that I'm deviating from religion almost completely. He takes it as this demon
that attacked him twenty years ago is coming back being manifested through me to get
back at him. You know what I'm saying, You're carrying a demon.
Oh wait, wait, wait wait, hang on, hang on, Yeah,
there's a revenge demon backpacking on you to get back at your dad.
Yes, yes, that's what trip that he's been throwing at me, and
he's been telling my wife is I've been away from home. I'm right now.
I'm actually on my drive back from Chicago to California on my way home,
and my wife spoke with my dad just yesterday or the day before,
and she was telling me how he brought this up to my wife. I'm
sitting on the edge of my chair and my hands are vibrating right now because
I mean, I could tell you the entire story if you have the time,
but I'm sure you've got other people that you want to speak to.
I'm just saying, your dad is giving him permission then to talk to your
wife about how you're possessed with a damon or you have the devil whispering in
your ear, and that's why you're such a screw up. I mean,
that's his reasoning for the conversations that we've had where I've pretty much presented to
him that I am no longer following religion period. I didn't say I was
an atheist like you said, I am not following religion. I got you.
Here's the last thing I will leave you with. Your journey is about
you and The mistake we often make is we try to convince other people if
only I explain what's been going on in my life a certain way, if
there's a certain series of words, if I string them together in this way,
or if I just show them this, they'll get it and they'll understand,
and they'll sort of be inside my skull and know even if they disagree,
at least they'll feel it. And that's a mistake because that makes at
some point you are then making your journey about other people. So your journey
the steps you take, the words you say, your values, or how
you act out your values. You are waiting for a pingback from a third
party, your mother, your father, religious friends, the church itself,
etc. I think your journey is about you. In my life, I
have come to the point where anybody around me can come up with any shit
story they want. Oh, Seth's got demons. I've heard that one Seth's
going through midlife. I've heard that one Seth just wants attention. I've heard
that one Seth has cashed in and somehow he's becoming a squillionaire as an atheist.
I haven't seen that one, and I give that as much power as
it deserves none, because my journey's about me. I don't let it derail
me. I live my life on my terms, and I will engage.
When they step over the boundary of my life and start to inject that stuff,
then it's on. But until then, people are going to say what
they're going to say, including your dad. If he wants to hold the
demons, it's a defense mechanism. It's a whole lot easier for him to
use that cookie cutter than to say, maybe the whole of the faith that
I have been practicing and preaching on the order of decades is total crap.
I understand how demons would be a much more attractive option for him. So,
but your journeys about you, Hoseiah, it's a total cop out.
It's proof that religion have evolved so many mechanisms to defend against skeptics, critics,
people with doubts. You know, if you want a great proof of
evolution, just look at Christianity, Catholicism, Islam, etc. They have
all of these evolved defense mechanisms in place, and you can see them.
Do that. Know what it is, but don't let it interrupt your day.
Man, Your journey is about you okay, Jose, thank you.
Drive safe out there. Okay, We'll see you. I will. You
know, it's always flattering and humbling when somebody calls and they say, Seth,
I'm going through something. What do you think? What should I do?
And I feel this tremendous responsibility, like why are you asking me?
I guess I've got some equity. I do a lot of this. I've
been through it. I've been on the front lines of activism for fifteen years
in that since. Maybe I'm not a total imposter, but I'm not a
professional and I don't have the answer that everybody wants. Hell, I want
it. Hey, how can I get someone too? And that's usually the
first sign that we're about to get into trouble. How do I get this
person to understand, to act, to not act, to react, to
be How do I get them? That's a problem because we have now taken
the responsibility for the life, the attitudes, the opinions and decisions of somebody
outside of us, and whenever they do something that is stupid or gross,
or bigoted or deluded or just factually wrong, we can't convince them otherwise we
failed. I failed. I am not succeeding. I have not had success,
and in my own life, I have had to will myself into a
better definition of what a successful life looks like because I spent years and years
and years stacking the deck against me, guaranteeing failure because my expectations were so
unrealistic. I was so naive. How can I get my religious mother and
father to see why I'm an atheist? And so I would engage, and
I would open the Bible, often a Bible that I knew better than most
of the people in my family, including those who were teaching Sunday school,
and I would say, this is a problem, and that doesn't work,
and this is untrue, and this is contradictory, and this is just outright
offensive. And so I've got legitimate reasons for walking away, and you need
to understand that. And I would recommend that you consider doing the same.
There is a better way. And in my naive mind, I somehow hope
that they would either agree with me and say, wow, thanks for bringing
this to our attention, and they would join me in this exit from mythology
and dogmatism, or at the very least they would have a three dimensional understanding
for their apostate child that did not happen, and I felt like I failed.
I am not successful in this way. Well, I was never going
to be successful, not like that. How can I make them? Is
no longer part of my equation for success. Am I being true to me
despite the consequences? Yes, in that way I'm a success. Have I
found a life that is more fulfilling and wonderful for me? Yes? Have
I discovered something that's a better fit for me? Yes? Have I learned
more about the world even later in life, late to the party, but
still there and and soaking up as much science and information. Have I been
honest with myself even when it hurts? Yes, that I set my jaw
and pushed through the fears of burning in hell forever to find out if a
hell even made sense? Yes, despite the consequences or potential consequences. Did
I give myself permission to examine religious dogmatism, the Bible, the history of
the Bible, the sourcing or lack of sourcing of the Bible, the contradictory
and offensive scriptures, the debunked mythologies of the Bible. That I continue to
push through and make that journey even when everybody else around me told me not
to. Yes, have I come to an understanding of the tremendous importance of
self care and self respect? How do we live our lives without self respect?
Why do we continue to throw ourselves under the steamroller of other people and
then let them blame us when we get hurt? Why do we tell that
person over there, you can't tell me what to do, but change the
rules for somebody who might be a sibling? My brother said, my sister
said, my daughter, my son, my mother, my father, my
uncle. Oh well, it's different with them their family. Why is it
different? Reframing that understanding that the rules of self care and the boundaries of
self respect apply even to those on our family tree. Understanding that was I
successful? I think so. I think that is a victory. I don't
think success always has to feel good. Success won't always include everyone. Success
sometimes includes conflict or refusing to engage in conflict. So often is not this
Hollywood ending that everybody dreams about? And I understand why we want to all
be on the same team, pursuing the same thing for the right reason,
and at the end, everybody's a winner, everybody gets a trophy. But
if we put that expectation in place, we are destined to be disappointed,
even devastated, and then often we blame ourselves because I failed. But if
you make your journey more about being true to yourself, that's the starting point,
and you say I am being a success in that, and then we
live our lives loud and proud if we can in front of all of these
other people, hoping that if someone else is on a similar journey, or
maybe there's enough of a crack to let in the light, maybe they'd be
open to conversation. Our example, our authenticity, our life might impact their
reception, but the change still happens internally in their minds. We provide the
opportunity. They must take responsibility. Why, because their journey belongs to them,
not a life without challenge, disagreement, or even conflict, but self
care, self respect, and authenticity. And even when the shit hits the
fan, if you've gotten at least close to that point, I think you
may have a successful life even when everybody else around you seems to be spinning
into oblivion. Realizing that that's their problem, and you can decide how much
of their problem you let into your home. That's success, not a utopian
Hollywood success, but a real world, sometimes messy, but still valid success.
So embrace that, give yourself the credit you deserve. Okay, And
with that, I am off to care for a sick kitty. To medicate
a sick cat, which means more of the burrito method. I think we
take the towel. We're going to wrap him up, and it's for your
own good and good for kitty because he could have been born into a home
when we said, well, you know what, we don't want any of
those medicines. The Lord is the best medicine. Dear Jesus, we asked
that you help cat not to have diarrhea. Today, we ask that you
perform a divine miracle on his little feline exit hole. He closed the back
door to all of this sickness and disease. Lord, may Christ cure his
keeyster. May the Savior sooth his sphincter and bring him back to proper intestinal
health. Where two or more are gathered in Jesus's name praying over this cats
poor poophole, their request shall be done. We ask this in Jesus name.
We could be doing that, but no, we are a science based
household and so Kat, prepare yourself. It's time to take your meds,
and I'm off to do that very thing. Love you much, be safe
and well. See you next week. Follow the Thinking Atheist on Facebook and
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