WEBVTT

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I'm Casey Tanner and I'm Camille Lewis, and this is safe word. Safe

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word is sex therapy unhinged because instead
of being a blank slate that's just here

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to support you, we're telling you
all the details on our own sex lives,

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relationships, identities, and more.
This isn't sex and it's not therapy,

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but we are sex therapists and what
you here today may excite you.

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Each week we'd talk alot theme related
to sex, relationships, gender and more.

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This week we're answering your questions about
what it's like to be sexual health

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professionals with a very special guest,
doctor Emily Morse, Doctor of Human Sexuality.

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Emily Morris is on a mission to
liberate conversation about sex and pleasure.

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Emily has helped millions of people around
the world navigate their sex lives. Her

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candid conversations challenge cultural taboos, misinformation, and awkward sex talks to create a

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future where people can deeply connect and
embrace pleasure filled lives. Today, Sex

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with Emily is the longest running sex
and relationship podcast and an endeavor that Emily

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has grown into a thriving media company. Learn more at Sex with Emily dot

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com, or by following at Sex
with Emily on Facebook, Instagram, and

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Twitter. So Emily, we ask
all of our guests this question. We're

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wondering if you're willing to tell us
if you have a safe word, or

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if you were to have a safe
word, what that safe word might be.

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Yeah, I thought that you were
going to ask this on pretty basic.

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I liked us using the traffic signal. Yeah, that's to me.

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I don't get a fancy in the
moment when I'm in a heightened state of

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arousal. I can remember red,
I can remember green, I can remember

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yellow. There you go. I
feel like that's like, it's a classic.

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It's a go to for a reason. So my boyfriend I joked that,

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were like, how about seagulls.
I'm like, when a seagulls that

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we're going to work. So we
do joke about it, but at the

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end of the day, that's what
we're doing, right, I got it.

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I got it. The first question
is why did you want to become

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a sex educator slash therapist. It's
a great question. I wanted to become

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on because I always say research is
mesearch, and so when I found there

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was like a pain point in my
life that I realized that sex was really

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disappointing. When I went to find
some answers to the questions I had about

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why couldn't orgasm, Why couldn't sustain
attraction to someone for very long? You

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know, why my partner wasn't a
wreck? All the questions that we often

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have, they're really word any sources
to go to. Almost twenty years ago

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that I found that we're useful,
that we're easily accessible. So I started

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my journey because I was trying to
help myself. Then I realized soon after

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that it was going to help so
many other people. So that was the

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journey. And now I realized,
you know, keeps you going because I

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realized we all need this help many
of us do. It's always personal,

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right, it is it is.
And I also have been in therapy like

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pretty much my whole life. I
came from a very like pro therapy background,

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and so I just think it's it's
crucial that we all need therapy,

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whether it's whether whatever kind of therapy
we need, I think we all bet

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if it's most people on the planet
to do some internal work. Do you

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ever find that when you're choosing whatever
whether it's running a chapter of your book

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or choosing a topic for your own
podcasts that you ever are selecting topics based

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on the thing that you most sort
of need to be looking into for yourself.

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It's something I definitely can relate to. Yeah, No, it's a

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great question, Casey, because I
feel like early on it was because I

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was such a I would feel like
I was a guinea pig, and I

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was everything was new to be,
like this is my first sex party,

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my first threesome, my first free
sex toy, you know, and I

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was going off on everything. And
then it kind of has taken all these

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turns over the years where then it
became more about like what is the theme

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that my listeners want to know?
What are the questions? Like you,

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I get so many questions in DM, so it's kind of toys in term.

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But I think at the end of
the day, when I can't say

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to that is that if I'm truly
passionate about and learning, that that's going

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to come through and everything that I
do, right, and it's really interesting

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to me exactly. And that's the
other thing. Right, if it's usually

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if it's just even if it's a
party of one like, even if it's

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you want to know the information,
there will be somebody else who it's going

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to serve. Can yell, I
don't know your answer to this question.

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Yeah, why did you become a
sex therapist? Well, when I was

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thinking about going into therapy, I
knew that I wanted to talk about identity

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and just kind of like how who
we are affects our lives and how we

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see the world. And then I
was like, what could I do and

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talk about that I wouldn't get tired
of or burnt out on? And I

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was like, I can talk about
sex all day, and I can go

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at it from a different angle depending
on what the client wants to talk about,

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and I can. There's so many
different niches within it that all excite

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me. So that really I was
like, what am I not going to

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get bored of? So that's why
I'm here? What about you, Casey?

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Yeah, so only I don't know
if you know this, but I

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grew up and went to school become
a pastor. So I was teaching sex

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education on the other side of this
coin, teaching people not to have sex,

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teaching people that sex was bad,
all sorts of things, and I

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felt the weight of that, and
it showed up in my mental health in

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all kinds of ways. So,
in a similar vein to research is me

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search, my recovery process necessitated undoing
that and redoing that. And as I

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readed it for myself and saw that
it of course it changed my sex life,

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but it changed everything else too,
I had to I had to ensure

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that there was a way other people
were also getting the opportunity to have that

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healing process. Wow. Yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. I'm

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sure that you have been able to
help so many people who listen to your

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show who are going through a similar
It's a lot of it is undoing right

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before you can even help people with
a position or a tip. It's like,

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where are you coming from? What
your what's your psychology behind this?

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What were the messages you learn?
How do we undo? Redo? Absolutely?

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I totally agree. Think a lot
of what I talk about is how

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great sex education actually moves backwards because
so many of us were born with an

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innate sense of play and spontaneity and
doing things without filtering it through a lens

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if should we do this as this
right or wrong? And so it's when

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you say I'm learning it's on learning
that information, but it's almost rewinding back

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to that part of ourselves we could
access in childhood that we were then conditioned

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out of the part of us that
wasn't even yet sexual but was so in

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touch with pleasure. And so I'm
totally with you on that. We do

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like that lens on learning, rewiring, redoing, starting, starting again every

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That's a good segue. Actually, Emily,

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what would you go back and tell
your younger self about sex if you

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got the chance, and it could
be any age, I would tell myself

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to masturbate more so good. I
would say, take a mirror, take

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a look, and put your hands
on your own pants and get curious.

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Become an expert in your own body. I think that would have really changed

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my trajectory of years of disappointing sex, faking orgasms. Yeah, that's I

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think that's the main thing, because
and then from there I would have realized

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I probably wouldn't have had as much
performative sex, and I wouldn't have prioritized

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my partner's pleasure over my own as
much if I knew that my pleasure was

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right here and so accessible. But
since I didn't know, and I kept

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thinking, well, I know nothing, but apparently my partner probably does because

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I didn't know, and I was
always much like I always was kind of

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the person like I. You know, I think there's two kinds of people

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to people think they know everything and
who realized that they don't know anything in

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life's journey and you're always learning.
Maybe there's there's probably a third category in

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there, but I feel like I'm
always the one who's like I have so

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much more to learn. I'm always
a student, you know. So that's

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kind of my mentality is like we
can all learn from each other. I'm

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never like I'm the expert and I
know everything. I'm so open. So

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my default was like, well,
I this isn't coming easily to me orgasm

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and pleasure and munication about sex,
So my partner must know. Come to

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find out. Zooming back twenty years, You're like, they don't know either.

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No one knows anything. So put
your hands down your own pants.

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I want that on like a T
shirt absolutely, or something that's brilliant.

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Love it a banner, pantn I
wass think a billboard? Can we have

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some billboards in Lax. I'm like, let's put it on on Sunset Boulevard,

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on a billboard. I love it. What about you? What were

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some of the things that you would
redo, relert or yeah, that you

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would tell your younger self. I
think I would tell myself let them spend

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the time on you. There were
so many times that I said to partners,

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that's enough, you've spent enough time. I've taken up too much space.

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Not because they ever were complaining always
because I was counting in my head.

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I mean I was I was counting
down the minutes until it was impossible

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that they were still enjoying my body. And so just believe them. Maybe

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that's it. Believe them when they
say they like going down on you,

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I mean to just not to put
too fine a point on it. Believe

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them when they say they like what
they're doing, and let them do it.

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And maybe I wouldn't have had to
wait until I was in my mid

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twenties to have my first orgasm.
That's a really good one. I used

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to think about, like the blinking
clock. I'd like, look over,

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it's a part to go down.
I mean, I'm like the red line,

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like it's been ten minutes, it's
been twelve minutes. Okay, okay,

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this is taking too long. You
know. Yeah, I totally could

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relate. Yeah, I'd have I'd
have like a TV show on in the

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background, and I would just recognize
when an episode was turning over and I

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was like, oh my gosh,
it's been three episodes, like of Parks

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and resasm. It's good, you
can meal um. I think that I

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would be I would tell my younger
self that it's okay to end sex when

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I stop enjoying it, and not
even like in a way that I felt

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like I was being like untrue to
myself. But I think that when I

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would get bored, or when I
would be like, you know what,

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this isn't feeling good to me anymore, or this is not feeling pleasurable to

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me, or if I realized that
like an orgasm wasn't going to happen for

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me, or and it started to
feel like uncomfortable, and I wish that

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I would just be like, you
know what, it's all right to be

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like, hey, I've had enough. It's been great, but we need

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to stop. We need to pause, we need to recalibrate, something like

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that. Because I think that my
like push through mentality an accomplishment, achievement

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has been a driver. So it's
like, all right, I could do

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this for probably twenty more minutes.
It's like I'm gonna be at pain or

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this for what or to what end? So I think that that's what I

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would tell myself, yoh, so
relatable, and what good messages are we

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were listening, like I used to
think it wasn't okay to stop sex.

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I was right the polite thing to
do, Like you go to someone's house

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for dinner, like you have to
like stay through dessert. Right, if

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you're having sex with someone, you
can't stop the sex if it's already started,

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because it's unfair. Yeah, you
realize, like, no, like

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we are collaborating on this event.
If I want to leave, if I

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want to leave the party or stop
the party or go to the bathroom,

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like it's all okay. Yeah,
absolutely absolutely. Why wouldn't you feel,

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at least when you were younger,
that you needed to push through when white

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supremacist, ableist, capitalist messaging is
let's just lie to ourselves about how much

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we can tolerate, and so of
course that would show up in our sex

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lives. We wouldn't We would lie
to ourselves and others about how much we

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can tolerate, because how much we
can tolerate, supposedly is the thing that

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makes us polite or good or yeah
the good party guest. Yeah, exactly,

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because if there's going to be a
sound reward for me at the end

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of it, when it's like there
literally was not, Yeah, the opposite.

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All right, Well, moving right
along, our next question says,

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are you ever tempted to sex educate
or be a sex therapist to your partner

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or partners of course, way too
much. Oh my god, I always

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do I mean more like a therapist
because the sex stuff I don't know.

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I guess it's always do. It's
all to me. It's all commingled like.

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But yeah, all the time,
to the point where I'm like,

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now learning all the you know again, don't you think that you teach what

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you need to learn? And it's
not just because I know all the things.

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I mean that every moment I'm exsessing
it perfectly and I'm the perfect partner

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at the right time. So sometimes
i find that I'm over therapizing and I'll

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say, I'm learning to say,
would you like advice right now? Or

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would you like me to listen?
What do you will kind of support you

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looking for right now? I really
try to remember doing that before I'm prescribing

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next steps for him when he's on
asking, I do that, And yeah,

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definitely theory we make it. What
I've learned is that this is a

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in my relationship. That's the sex
theory part of it. We're at it

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together. And again, I think
that's what I think that I came from

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the mindset earlier on that it was
before I you know, when it studied

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sex that it was like about I
took it on myself, like I have

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to be the arbitrar of great sex. I have to fix it all.

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But when you realize that sex is
a true collaboration, that we're in this

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together, So what do you want? What do I want? Like I

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literally have a shared note my partner. I have shared note on our phone

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about like all the sex things you
want to try and what we find had

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what we want to do, Like
we went away for a long weekend and

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we're like, okay, what should
we do? Like which toys be packing?

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Which lub? Like it's fun.
It's like I always try to tell

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you you guys do tell people as
well. You both share this in your

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show that it's like once you get
over the hump of talk about sex,

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the fear and the shame and the
trauma on the stress, it actually becomes

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just as fun as planning your summification
or where you're going to go to eat

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dinner tonight. It's like, what
are we gonna do for sex? Right?

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And then we troubleshoot along the way, like I have pain tonight.

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I have a stomach ache. This
toy isn't charged um or our loubere.

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I don't want a penetration, but
can we make out for a bit?

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Like we are so we just nail
it, like are we having sex?

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Are we not? Let's so to
me, um, yes, I have

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to work on probably therapizing everyone around
me. And then yeah, definitely by

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partner, I think that sex is
with this particular partner, my privorty partner.

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It's kind of flipped over to this
really beautiful collaboration where I think that

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we're both on the same page when
it comes to our wants and needs sexually.

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M that sounds so great And also
like that therapizing is working and it

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is working to your benefit, because
how wonderful is it to be over,

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like you said, the trauma,
stress and shame and to be in a

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place where you're like, let's just
talk about this as easy as it would

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be to plan dinner or what we're
going to do for the weekend. And

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I think that getting over that hump
is like such a beautiful place to be.

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So it's really good. What about
you, what about the both of

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you in your if you want to
share that, how does it yeah,

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what does it local show up for
you and your relationship? This is a

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one hundred percent been a thing in
my past relationships and my current relationship with

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mal I actually have been dealing with
really craving for her to show up a

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little bit more in this way.
And I think where that's coming from is

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a place of being like, I
give so much of myself in this way

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to other people through my work,
and I'm often craving the ability to actually

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be a learner in the area of
sex, which of course is a really

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unfair expectation for my partner, who
is not a sex therapist and not a

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sex Yeah, it's it's it's this
fantasy I have somebody, you know,

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will still take care of me in
this way, and of course she takes

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care of me in a million different
ways. So I think right now my

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particular struggle is less wanting to therapize
her and more like, wait a second,

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who's gonna who's gonna give me insight? Not that I don't have plenty

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to learn, but I'm sure you
both know the further into this field you

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get, the harder it is to
find your own therapist. I am educating

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my own therapist around the topic of
sex, because well, first off,

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I have a sis dude as a
therapist, so that's on me. But

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also like he's not a sex therapist. So I think more than anything,

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I'm craving I'm craving being the learner
more lately because I'm a little bit tired.

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Yeah that makes sense. Yeah,
that does absolutely make sense. So

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good that you you know that about
yourself. Maybe you and your partner can

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like pinpoint areas that you want to
learn specifically. Yeah, yeah, area

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sex. You could be like,
this is a good poy area where I

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think maybe we could work together collaborate
on. So I love that. I

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think she would like Hobbly. I'm
sure she wants to show up. Would

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be the best lover to you,
right, I think they all do.

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She does. Yeah, I mean
I feel like I struggle to oscillate between

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my rules as like a sex therapist
and then like a partner or dating,

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and so I think that I'm always
ready to be like, well, why

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don't we discuss that a little bit
more? Well, why don't you tell

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me what's coming up for you now? And I'm like sometimes I'm like I

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don't same with you, Casey,
like I'm like, I don't want to

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really talk like a therapist or think
like a therapist, but it is now

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how I think it is now how
I talk, so you can't kind of

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it's kind of hard to parse it
out truly, which I think is better

285
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than the alternative of like steamrolling stating
your own opinions just before someone's ready for

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it. So, after we've talked
a little bit about partners, the next

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question is do your partners ever ask
you to keep them a secret? And

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I might even expand this too,
is what is the process of boundary setting

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with partners when you are public facing
around a topic like sex. Still,

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it's a really good question. Over
the time, I actually have been pretty

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private about my sex life over the
last twenty years of doing this, So

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if anything, I think I've been
more, I haven't showed up. Maybe

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I've had a few of this is
everything I got on Instagram. Maybe I've

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had like two and twenty years that
I've labeled and been like this is my

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partner um. But I usually it's
funny because early on I'd be like,

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I want to change your name,
don't worry, like I'll talk about you.

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But I'm because I've never been that
person's like, let me wake up

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in the morning and talk about I've
always been come from a place of like,

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you know, just wanting to be
a good partner to my friends,

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to to my my staff, my
coworkers and everything. So, um,

301
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it hasn't really been a thing.
I think I've sort of been able to

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walk the line of kind of being
fair to everybody because again, when I

303
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think about, like what, because
most of my work has been through the

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through the podcast, is that,
um, through sex with on my platform

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has been like what if I want
to share something? It was never about

306
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me, like, oh look at
this crazy thing. It's always been a

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place of education. What's true?
May to the lesson I'm talking about today,

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Like how could my experience help the
listeners? So does it matter it

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was a guy from last night or
from six years ago? Could I be

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like, Okay, I'm going to
change your name in your age and where

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you are because really, just this, the reason I'm sharing the information is

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from a place that's going to be
useful to everyone, not just because I'm

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tuning my own horn. Yeah,
so that's made a lot easier because it

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doesn't really matter who my partner is, right like it, so it was

315
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like never really like they weren't really
coming along for it. That's really cool

316
00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:30.960
to hear. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, you know. I think,

317
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well, I'm single, so I
think a lot of the stories or things

318
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that I share are like naturally going
to be anonymous because I'm not like seriously

319
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dating anybody right now. But I
think that when I think about my privacy,

320
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it's like very sacred to me.
Like I feel like even if I

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were to start dating somebody, like
they're not going to be I'm not the

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type to be like put somebody right
on Instagram. I'm like, this has

323
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got to be we gotta be a
long way into this because I feel really

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private in general, and I think
maybe that's like the scorpio aspect of me,

325
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Like I don't know about cover it, but I think that like I

326
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have and I've also the first podcast
that I ever guessed on, I talked

327
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about my first sexual relationship with my
then boyfriend and I was like saying how

328
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it wasn't very good at first,
and he was so angry at me afterward

329
00:21:27.480 --> 00:21:30.279
and was like, I can't believe
you said this, and I was just

330
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like, I didn't say your name. I didn't say anything about this.

331
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I said that it was like a
bad first sex experience. And then but

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and then after that, I was
like, Okay, fuck it, I'm

333
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:44.480
not going to say anything about anybody
ever again. But now, like I

334
00:21:44.519 --> 00:21:49.079
feel, I feel like people would
I would want to give get permission from

335
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:52.359
somebody or get kind of like have
the conversation and be like, I'm I

336
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:56.079
want to name you by name.
I think it'll take me a long time

337
00:21:56.119 --> 00:22:00.319
to get there. I like.
I like the anonymity, I think,

338
00:22:00.440 --> 00:22:04.680
but I think that I would definitely
have that conversation beforehand. But otherwise I'll

339
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.240
talk about anything. I don't really
care. Yeah, if people can't trace

340
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:11.359
them again, if you change the
names, you change their ages, locations.

341
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:14.640
I did it all the time.
Yeah, And he was like,

342
00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:17.440
because it all comes together too again, you're trying to help people, all

343
00:22:17.480 --> 00:22:18.680
right, Does it doesn't really matter
who it is, right, Like,

344
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if it's a story or it's a
lesson, it doesn't. And I think

345
00:22:23.079 --> 00:22:26.119
that there's just like an assumption that
like somebody is going to do all of

346
00:22:26.119 --> 00:22:30.839
this like spy work to figure out
who you are and then say something like

347
00:22:30.160 --> 00:22:34.640
in what there's nothing that's going to
come from this other than somebody's going to

348
00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:41.160
relate to this and understand what I'm
talking about and feel better. So I

349
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:45.480
also feel like that first boyfriend was
the type of person too that even if

350
00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.000
it had just been the two of
you in a room and you were giving

351
00:22:48.119 --> 00:22:51.240
very reasonable feedback about how sex felt
for you, he probably would have been

352
00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:56.759
angry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it seems like not a you problem.

353
00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.000
So this question is what porn do
you watch that doesn't give you the

354
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:06.359
ick after you come? So they're
a porn that makes you feel good or

355
00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:10.319
neutral after you're finished. God,
I think most of the porn I watch

356
00:23:10.440 --> 00:23:15.240
is, you know, we watch, oh God, a little bit of

357
00:23:15.319 --> 00:23:21.640
everything, a little bit more like
kinky, more bondage more, all different

358
00:23:22.079 --> 00:23:26.920
genders, all different experiences. I
feel like most the porn true, like

359
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:32.240
I started watching like Erica Lust early
on, and like a lot of ethical

360
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:36.400
porn that's made more from the female
gaze, you know. So I feel

361
00:23:36.400 --> 00:23:38.359
like I kind of know how to
steer clear of it. Now, what

362
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:41.720
about what about you? What about
what about you? Guys? I feel

363
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:45.640
like I'm you know again, we
do this? Start about I don't I

364
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:52.799
don't think anymore. I used yeah, I feel like I feel like sometimes

365
00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:56.279
I sometimes I do it, but
that was not the question, so I

366
00:23:56.319 --> 00:24:00.519
don't have to share what that is. But I will say what I don't

367
00:24:00.799 --> 00:24:04.680
make ground. And what I've recently
been watching is like threesomes with two men,

368
00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:11.200
and I really have enjoyed that,
and I'm just like it's I think

369
00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:17.640
it's really it's really fun and really
pleasurable or like um but big like big

370
00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:21.960
group sex like at a party or
something that I'd like to watch that porn

371
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:29.200
sometimes and I'm like cool or something
afterward. What about you, Casey M.

372
00:24:30.599 --> 00:24:34.440
I've recently gotten into amateur porn,
porn made by people, not necessarily,

373
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:37.279
but the kind of been into is
porn made by people who are in

374
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:41.880
real sexual or other kinds of relationships
with one another, who are just choosing

375
00:24:41.880 --> 00:24:45.319
to do this because it is exciting
for them. Promise this is not a

376
00:24:45.359 --> 00:24:49.240
sponsor for this podcast, but Cheeks
the platform actually has like a really good

377
00:24:49.319 --> 00:24:53.200
array of this kind of porn,
and what I love about it is the

378
00:24:53.400 --> 00:25:00.319
scenes that it portrays are so everyday
life. It's not again not like sometimes

379
00:25:00.319 --> 00:25:03.960
I actually enjoy you know, role
playing, but watching role play poor in

380
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:07.599
between, like a step mom and
a stepson because it's weird and the power

381
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:12.119
dynamics are cool, whatever. But
what I love about this is it's like

382
00:25:12.440 --> 00:25:18.039
somebody gets home from work, the
other partner shuts their laptop. It's an

383
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.680
interaction that I've had a million times
in my own home, and so it

384
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:26.680
kind of removes the idea that this
is this ethereal thing that that I'll never

385
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:30.279
be able to reach, or that
I have to put on a different hat

386
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.319
to engage with it. It's me
right now because it's a couple that you

387
00:25:33.319 --> 00:25:37.680
know, probably lives four doors down. So I love that kind of ship.

388
00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:45.240
Emily, do you feel pressure in
your own life to have either consistent

389
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:52.279
sex or exciting sex or good sex
whatever that means. I have? Yeah,

390
00:25:52.359 --> 00:25:57.680
I do, let's see. But
it's funny, it's trance. It's

391
00:25:57.799 --> 00:26:00.599
changed over the years, I think
I do. I'm like, oh god,

392
00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.000
I'm the I'm the expert, you
know, but sometimes I'm like yeah,

393
00:26:04.039 --> 00:26:07.119
but sometimes you know, you go
to like a great chef, right,

394
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:12.160
you go to ah whoever is home
ons andimes like just you just sometimes

395
00:26:12.240 --> 00:26:15.039
you just you know, you have
to make like a soup flay every night,

396
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:18.799
and like you know, like a
six course meal, and sometimes you

397
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:22.480
just want to mutually masturbate and fall
asleep, and it's not always about that,

398
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:26.039
right, So I I think I
have but I talk about it a

399
00:26:26.079 --> 00:26:29.039
lot with my with my with my
partner. So I think in the past,

400
00:26:29.079 --> 00:26:32.160
the first time I'm with someone,
I'm like because mostly I haven't been

401
00:26:32.200 --> 00:26:34.079
in I've been been in like a
study. I've been more like open,

402
00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:38.359
and I've gone through all the iterations
of relationships, and I always felt like,

403
00:26:38.359 --> 00:26:41.279
Okay, there's pressure, I gotta
go, I gotta you know,

404
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:45.119
So I have felt that. But
also I think I have the ability once

405
00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.759
I'm with someone and I'm present,
that's the one I'm able able to turn

406
00:26:48.799 --> 00:26:52.759
it off and be much more embodied. And I think most of my experiences

407
00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:59.279
have been pretty more positive than not
since this has been in my career.

408
00:26:59.319 --> 00:27:00.759
And I think before that I always
did confident because I'm like, I am

409
00:27:00.759 --> 00:27:03.599
performing, so I know it's good. I can tell. So yeah,

410
00:27:03.640 --> 00:27:07.240
I don't. I don't have that
pressure as much anymore. I know that

411
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.400
sex even for and I don't you
guys feel that you probably feel this too,

412
00:27:10.839 --> 00:27:15.640
that even as sex educators, you
know, like I said, just

413
00:27:15.640 --> 00:27:17.799
because you're chef sometimes you want to
Mike way of a dinner, or you're

414
00:27:17.839 --> 00:27:19.200
a sex educator, doesn't mean that
you always got to bring it right.

415
00:27:19.279 --> 00:27:22.200
So so I always feel like I
know enough to know that. Like,

416
00:27:22.240 --> 00:27:25.799
it doesn't mean that we're perfect.
It doesn't mean we're actually all the time

417
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:27.599
we have. It doesn't mean like
I have a super high lobido. I'm

418
00:27:27.599 --> 00:27:30.119
always wet and ready to go at
the drop of a hat because it's what

419
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:33.480
I study. Because it's what I
study and what I know, I give

420
00:27:33.519 --> 00:27:37.559
myself permission to be in my body. Yeah. I mean, if if

421
00:27:37.599 --> 00:27:42.039
research is mesearch, then none of
us chose this field because we were the

422
00:27:42.079 --> 00:27:45.440
best at sex in the world,
right. We chose it because we were

423
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.839
like, I know, I need
help, and that's how I felt,

424
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.799
and that's how I still feel.
I definitely have dealt with some versions of

425
00:27:52.839 --> 00:27:56.200
sex therapist imposter syndrome. If I've
gone a certain amount of time without sex,

426
00:27:56.240 --> 00:28:00.240
I'll even sometimes have the thought like
what what would these clients think about

427
00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:06.160
me? Which you know they wouldn't
think anything, probably, But yeah,

428
00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:10.640
of course I judge myself sometimes I
think like you, Emily, when I'm

429
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:14.400
when I'm being kind to myself.
On my best days, I can say

430
00:28:14.400 --> 00:28:18.079
to myself and say to my partner
like, sex is not a performance.

431
00:28:18.680 --> 00:28:22.960
Exciting sex is impossible to have all
of the time. Relationships and energy within

432
00:28:22.000 --> 00:28:27.400
relationships change. So I think I
have compassion for myself, but I feel,

433
00:28:27.559 --> 00:28:33.880
maybe I feel emily like I'm still
moving in the direction that you described.

434
00:28:33.960 --> 00:28:37.000
I'm still I'm still working on giving
myself some of the permission. That

435
00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:41.440
it sounds like you're more practiced at
giving yourself a journey. Well that's good,

436
00:28:41.519 --> 00:28:45.559
it's a practice. Good. Yeah, good, it is because that

437
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.559
imposter symptom is real. And that's
the other thing is having realists that it

438
00:28:48.559 --> 00:28:51.640
doesn't really go away. You just
started to monitor recognize it and say hello,

439
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:56.400
hello there right, yep, there
you are again? Yeah, can

440
00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:59.880
me or what about you? Yeah? I think I definitely have felt the

441
00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:06.240
pressure or like because I'm not in
a relationship like dating casually or something and

442
00:29:06.319 --> 00:29:08.519
telling people this and they're like,
oh, well, you must blank you

443
00:29:08.559 --> 00:29:14.319
know, like you must be really
experience, really practiced. You must know

444
00:29:14.400 --> 00:29:17.839
everything about shabari, you must know
everything about kick, you must everything about

445
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.960
sex parties. And I'm like,
like, and I think that that part

446
00:29:22.079 --> 00:29:26.759
will sometimes have like the imposter syndrome
or be like yeah, like I'm about

447
00:29:26.799 --> 00:29:32.640
to do all the gymnastics in this
bedroom or whatever, or other times I'm

448
00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:37.160
like yeah, And it just means
that I'm a'm knowledgeable about this topic in

449
00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:41.799
a way, but it doesn't really
mean that I'm an expert on what would

450
00:29:41.799 --> 00:29:45.359
happen in our dynamics. So we
still have to talk about it. We

451
00:29:45.400 --> 00:29:48.119
still have to go over things that
we're into and not into. So it

452
00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:51.440
doesn't just mean it's a free for
all, because I think that that is

453
00:29:51.440 --> 00:29:53.359
what it can be interpreted as.
It's like, oh, so you must

454
00:29:53.359 --> 00:30:00.119
be like down for whatever, and
it's just like what, No, it

455
00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:02.640
doesn't mean that at all. It
means that you know that you know what

456
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.119
the options are on the table,
but it doesn't mean they have to do

457
00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:07.680
it all right. Just it's really
so much of it is right about communication.

458
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.559
Yeah, and that I know my
limits and I know what my curiosities

459
00:30:11.599 --> 00:30:15.440
are and I can explore them.
But I don't have to just be like,

460
00:30:15.599 --> 00:30:18.920
yeah, whatever you want, whatever
fucking hole you want to put whatever

461
00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.640
in, I'm good like no,
But that's the pressure, right that you

462
00:30:22.640 --> 00:30:25.279
could feel being with a new partner
like either they think I want to be

463
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:27.559
down with everything and yep, and
you're like, am I down for everything?

464
00:30:27.599 --> 00:30:30.279
Is that what it means? So
I think that you cause of to

465
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.480
reevaluate what it means right in our
in our field too. I don't know

466
00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:36.880
if y'all are familiar with Serando Jay
Brown's work. I think they just wrote

467
00:30:36.880 --> 00:30:41.400
the book Refusing Compulsory Sexuality, But
it's a conversation that I think is relatively

468
00:30:41.519 --> 00:30:47.920
new in this space, and it's
it's blowing my mind. I mean,

469
00:30:48.279 --> 00:30:52.079
even just thinking what is the scale
on which I've been judging my sex life

470
00:30:52.640 --> 00:30:57.039
And what if instead of the assumption
being that a good sex life was it

471
00:30:57.119 --> 00:31:02.319
was one where there's regular sex happening. What if it was having exactly the

472
00:31:02.359 --> 00:31:04.200
sex that we want to have when
we want to have it. And maybe

473
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:07.480
sometimes that's none at all, and
maybe sometimes, maybe for a decade,

474
00:31:07.559 --> 00:31:11.119
it's none at all. And so
that's really been blowing my mind and I'm

475
00:31:11.160 --> 00:31:18.319
trying to I'm so far from embodying
that I think I could logically wrap my

476
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:22.119
head around it. But I would
love I'd love to have the opportunity or

477
00:31:22.119 --> 00:31:26.119
the permission to actually ask the ask
and answer the question for myself of what

478
00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:32.559
would my sex life look like if
I'd never been taught that you're supposed to

479
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:34.880
have sex once a week, or
you're supposed to or sex is supposed to

480
00:31:34.880 --> 00:31:37.079
look x way like. I don't
know if I'll ever be able to answer

481
00:31:37.079 --> 00:31:42.480
that question because obviously can't go back
in time. But compulsory sexuality, really,

482
00:31:42.720 --> 00:31:45.799
I think it's fucked us all up. That is, so that's so

483
00:31:45.839 --> 00:31:51.200
interesting. That's the book it's called
called Compulsory sexual Yeah, it's called Refusing

484
00:31:51.240 --> 00:31:56.480
Compulsory Sexuality. I believe that the
author's on the ACE spectrum, and so

485
00:31:56.519 --> 00:32:00.559
it's coming from a perspective of Yeah, I think inclusivity for ACE folks.

486
00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:07.160
But also what if being sexual wasn't
the part of the intrinsic definition of what

487
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:09.799
it meant to be a healthy human
being? And how would we understand it

488
00:32:09.839 --> 00:32:14.519
differently? Yeah, what would our
urges be? What would what would we

489
00:32:14.519 --> 00:32:16.400
see? Right, we obviously would
see it beyond creation, which is what

490
00:32:16.400 --> 00:32:20.720
we're mostly told, like what part
of it is like alogical learnings and what

491
00:32:20.799 --> 00:32:23.920
part of it is the biological urges? That's so interesting, Yeah, because

492
00:32:24.079 --> 00:32:32.400
Yeah, it's fascinating a lot to
think about there writing it down Emily,

493
00:32:32.440 --> 00:32:37.079
whether it's on your podcast or on
social media, how do you balance creating

494
00:32:37.119 --> 00:32:44.319
popular content with content that maybe has
more of an impact but isn't necessarily going

495
00:32:44.359 --> 00:32:47.920
to be the high performing topic or
high performing content. It's a great question.

496
00:32:47.960 --> 00:32:52.559
I mean, I've been through so
many different iterations of this, and

497
00:32:52.599 --> 00:32:57.759
I think it probably wasn't until the
last few years that I've been it's been

498
00:32:57.759 --> 00:33:00.000
working on the book. Then I
was just like, Okay, well,

499
00:33:00.039 --> 00:33:01.920
what's working because I don't know what, like what are some of the best

500
00:33:01.920 --> 00:33:07.400
things that I've been working But I
think, let's see, it's you know

501
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.119
that I've kind of been like,
okay, like I know that these shows

502
00:33:09.119 --> 00:33:14.920
and these topics work. But really, I think I've always let the audience

503
00:33:15.039 --> 00:33:17.680
dictate what the shows are about.
Honestly, until very recently, when I

504
00:33:17.720 --> 00:33:23.200
just wasn't doing as many shows.
I feel like, because I did a

505
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.720
call in show for so long,
it's like, what are people calling about?

506
00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:30.599
What do they want to hear about? And but I also balanced,

507
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:32.000
I'm like, I, no,
no one wants a safe sex show,

508
00:33:32.079 --> 00:33:36.279
and no one wants talking to your
kids about masturbation show, and people aren't

509
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:39.319
like clamoring for the you know,
um yeah, I think it would be

510
00:33:39.359 --> 00:33:43.880
like the safe sex or even the
you know, even open relationships. At

511
00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:45.200
least in my audience, names are
like I don't want to talk about that,

512
00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:49.880
or but I think I know that
it's it's it's important, so I

513
00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:52.839
just sort of don't. Really,
I'm at the point where I don't.

514
00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:57.039
I never really looked at numbers either
until I really did this from a very

515
00:33:57.119 --> 00:33:59.839
like heart place, Like, looking
back on it, I probably would have

516
00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.000
things would have been very different I
had I had more of a business mindset

517
00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:09.199
around my brand or my show.
So I think I was always sort of

518
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:12.719
going I mean, it started out
at the pulse of what I thought was

519
00:34:12.760 --> 00:34:15.880
interesting, and then realized that people
were coming along with me on this journey

520
00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:19.119
of learning and learned learning, and
then it kind of turned into well people

521
00:34:19.159 --> 00:34:21.440
were asking, right, And then
I was as I do my work,

522
00:34:21.480 --> 00:34:23.280
I try to bring more work into
the you know, my work and things

523
00:34:23.320 --> 00:34:25.760
I'm learning into the show. Like
as I became more embodied, I brought

524
00:34:25.800 --> 00:34:29.639
in more embodiment people. As I
studied breathwork, I brought in my breath

525
00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.079
work coaches, as I did trauma
work, I brought in my trauma therapist

526
00:34:32.239 --> 00:34:37.400
as I learned more about my sexual
So I try to bring my like if

527
00:34:37.400 --> 00:34:39.480
I go back, which would be
like horrid toleist of my first shows from

528
00:34:39.480 --> 00:34:45.280
twenty years ago, but it's definitely
been a journey of my own exploration that

529
00:34:45.320 --> 00:34:47.519
I think that, like a lot
of my listeners have come along with me.

530
00:34:47.639 --> 00:34:51.440
So to answer that, like,
it's still a business and I want

531
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:54.199
to, you know, be able
to do what I love, but I

532
00:34:54.239 --> 00:34:59.519
think it's just as a duty of
what I do, the responsibility I have

533
00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:02.039
of education people, Like, I
know it's a disservice to just do blowjob

534
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:07.519
anal and oral shows every day,
right, Like no, right exactly,

535
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:10.079
but that's by the end of the
day. People want an oral sex show.

536
00:35:10.199 --> 00:35:14.519
They want to know about orgasms,
and I could do that. There's

537
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:16.599
many different ways to slice that,
but I think it's important to also bring

538
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:22.840
in content that is educated, also
educational and formative and hopefully entertaining. So

539
00:35:22.840 --> 00:35:27.159
people are going to listen, how
do you do how do you think that

540
00:35:27.519 --> 00:35:30.400
you? Oh, for me,
might that's most relevant for you? Okay?

541
00:35:30.400 --> 00:35:32.639
Okay, yeah, I was I
was thinking about what you were saying,

542
00:35:32.639 --> 00:35:37.599
Emily, and and how much of
a gift I It sounds like it

543
00:35:37.679 --> 00:35:39.840
might have been that you weren't thinking
about it from such a business mindset in

544
00:35:39.840 --> 00:35:43.880
those early days, and I relate
to that, and I certainly think about

545
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:49.039
it from a business perspective now because
our social media supports the livelihoods of thirty

546
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:52.400
therapists who work at the Expansive Group, so I have to think like like

547
00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:55.519
a business person. But when I
started the account, it was it was

548
00:35:55.559 --> 00:35:59.960
a side project. Now we have
a team of educators who write for the

549
00:36:00.159 --> 00:36:04.719
page, and we have this conversation
quite often because we believe in talking about

550
00:36:04.800 --> 00:36:07.960
the intersection of sex and race,
and we believe in talking about identities that

551
00:36:08.159 --> 00:36:12.760
less than one percent of the population
hold. And we know that when we

552
00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.079
do that, we can predict much
lower analytics. And that hasn't stopped us

553
00:36:17.079 --> 00:36:22.079
from writing about it and doing it. But it's hard. It sometimes is

554
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:27.039
tempting to kind of push that to
the side in favor of performing because it's

555
00:36:27.400 --> 00:36:31.880
predictably performs low. So these are
hard decisions and I am often walking a

556
00:36:31.920 --> 00:36:36.840
line between you know, this is
something important to speak about on the page

557
00:36:36.840 --> 00:36:40.800
and there is the reality that you
know, there's there's a there's livelihoods at

558
00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:46.039
stake with the performance of this page
now, and so it's tricky. Yeah,

559
00:36:46.159 --> 00:36:49.320
I feel that. I feel like
as we were talking, it was

560
00:36:49.360 --> 00:36:52.559
like, I feel like I experience
it's like in my own way in my

561
00:36:52.639 --> 00:36:55.199
page as I'm trying to grow it
of being like, well, what do

562
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:59.519
people want to hear? What do
people care about? And being like the

563
00:36:59.639 --> 00:37:02.320
thing that I think it's important,
this is interesting. It's like it's not

564
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.320
as silacious right as like blow jobs
are anal It's like, okay, well

565
00:37:07.800 --> 00:37:08.960
how to balance that? And then
I get stuck and then I just don't

566
00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:13.800
write anything. So I was like, oh, fuck it all right,

567
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:15.559
Well I can write about three songs
I guess as people who want to hear

568
00:37:15.599 --> 00:37:22.480
about that. But maybe Camille,
this is sort of like one possible path

569
00:37:22.559 --> 00:37:25.199
for you is what if? What
if you could set that aside a little

570
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:29.760
bit and be like, because Camille, you are so fucking interesting, Like

571
00:37:29.920 --> 00:37:31.760
when when we're going out to dinner
and you're not thinking about your audience.

572
00:37:31.840 --> 00:37:37.119
Everything you say is so fascinating to
me, and obviously what you're writing about

573
00:37:37.199 --> 00:37:39.599
is fascinating. Too, But I
just feel like maybe you could, maybe

574
00:37:39.599 --> 00:37:43.159
you could just be like, fuck, fuck what they want to hear.

575
00:37:43.199 --> 00:37:45.119
They want me, they want whatever
I want have to say right now,

576
00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:50.679
and I think it actually tends to
be true. Oh okay, I think

577
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:52.280
so too. I think that that's
that's a great point, is that the

578
00:37:52.320 --> 00:37:57.480
more you lead into what you actually
want to do with passion, but your

579
00:37:57.519 --> 00:38:00.480
listeners and your audience are going to
follow you because they want you. It's

580
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:04.159
not I've I've definitely had that.
Like you realize that they used to hearing

581
00:38:04.199 --> 00:38:07.239
your voice and your advice and your
comfort, and you're going to go along

582
00:38:07.280 --> 00:38:08.960
with You might not be as many
people, but as long as you're true

583
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:12.480
to yourself, I think that at
the end of the day, like the

584
00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:15.000
people respect you for that and they
want that, and they feel the authenticity

585
00:38:15.039 --> 00:38:21.679
and the heart and the passion.
I feel good. This is a wonderful

586
00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:24.039
conversation. And you've been listening to
your podcast and it's you guys have such

587
00:38:24.079 --> 00:38:28.760
a such a wonderful dynamic together.
So I think it's great to know about

588
00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:30.800
what you're both doing and to be
connected. So yeah, thanks for having

589
00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:34.119
me. This has been wonderful.
Emily is there anything that you want to

590
00:38:34.119 --> 00:38:37.159
plug or tell us about. I'm
really yeah, thank you for asking.

591
00:38:37.239 --> 00:38:40.400
I'm really excited about. Well,
my podcast I've been doing for almost twenty

592
00:38:40.480 --> 00:38:44.119
years. It's called Sex with Emily, available on all platforms. But the

593
00:38:44.119 --> 00:38:46.960
thing I'm most passion about is my
book, which is coming out June thirteenth,

594
00:38:47.000 --> 00:38:51.840
and oh, thank you. I
know if a pre order now.

595
00:38:51.880 --> 00:38:54.400
It's called Smart Sex. Have to
Boost your Sex i Q and Own your

596
00:38:54.400 --> 00:38:58.000
Pleasure. And in writing the book, you know, WHICHI was like,

597
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:00.800
Okay, here's all my latest and
greatest tip. So then I realized,

598
00:39:00.800 --> 00:39:04.559
like people just want to quick fix
for things, and I really came up

599
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:07.840
with this, uh, these five
pillars of Sex i Q and that that

600
00:39:08.039 --> 00:39:14.599
sex isn't just it's a new paradigm
for thinking about sex, education and sexual

601
00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:19.760
health and wellness. So I really
think it's going to help people shift and

602
00:39:19.920 --> 00:39:22.840
the way they think about sex and
also help themselves answer their own questions.

603
00:39:23.119 --> 00:39:28.280
So it sort of runs through a
sort of a yeah, it just gives

604
00:39:28.280 --> 00:39:30.920
people a new paradigm, a new
framework for thinking about sex, and it

605
00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:36.199
is of my greatest and latest tips
as well. Congratulations and we can't wait

606
00:39:36.239 --> 00:39:37.920
to read it. Thank you so
much. Yeah, you can pre order

607
00:39:37.960 --> 00:39:50.239
it now. This week's safe word
is actually a safe gesture and it's snapping

608
00:39:50.280 --> 00:39:54.679
fingers from Ian, which I like. Okay. That safe Word assocted by

609
00:39:54.719 --> 00:40:00.000
Casey Tanner and Kemmil Lewis and it's
produced by coordinator et Townsend. Our themes

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song is written and performed by Emma
Jane and Toria Rainey. To support the

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show, please follow us on Spotify
and take a moment right now to give

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us five stars. We also love
rave reviews on Apple podcasts wherever you listen

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to podcasts. Every other week we
put a question box out on Instagram,

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giving you the opportunity to ask for
advice on the topic at hand. To

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00:40:19.760 --> 00:40:22.559
submit long form questions in writing or
your own voice, go to the Safe

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Word or Queer Sex Therapy Instagram page
and click on our link tree in the

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bio to write out longer form questions. If anything today made you curious about

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00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:35.719
seeking support, the Expansive Group has
a great team of therapists and mentors to

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discuss challenges you might be facing.
Go to the Expansivegroup dot com, submit

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a contact form and we'll help get
you connected for behind the scenes look at

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safe Word and podcasts updates. Find
us on Instagram at safe word pod.

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We'll be back in two weeks with
our very own Yaz Harris on a new

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episode of Safe Word