WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:14.240 Hmm, he was cold Cold, that was the name. He was cold. 2 00:00:16.839 --> 00:00:26.039 Hm. What's going on up there? Could be the most important event 3 00:00:26.120 --> 00:00:40.719 in history now, I am becoming back the destroyer of worlds, I said. 4 00:00:40.759 --> 00:01:03.400 I hope this is close to hell is all never again. Hello and 5 00:01:03.439 --> 00:01:07.040 welcome to the Tales to the Dark podcast. I'm your host Bob. You're 6 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:11.079 with my cost Brittany live in the studio. Hey guys, what's up, 7 00:01:11.239 --> 00:01:15.000 Brittany? How are you doing today? I'm doing good. The colder weather 8 00:01:15.079 --> 00:01:18.799 has got me feeling a little down, but I'm very excited for what we 9 00:01:18.879 --> 00:01:22.599 have in store today. Yeah. So, uh, I don't want to 10 00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:26.280 waste too much time, you know, but uh, I do want to 11 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.000 just put out real fast. If you guys missed it over on Patreon, 12 00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:33.480 we did a pretty lengthy update on podcast. Yeah, well we kind of 13 00:01:33.480 --> 00:01:36.079 went through like where A, where we been be, what's been going on, 14 00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:38.200 all that kind of general housekeeping stuff. So if you guys are patrons 15 00:01:38.239 --> 00:01:41.760 or you guys want to join and support us over at patreon dot com slash 16 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:45.079 Tales from the Dark, you can check it out over there. But with 17 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:47.040 that being said, miss Brittany, I think we just need to hop in 18 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.959 this interview because this is one that has been a long time coming and I 19 00:01:49.000 --> 00:01:53.760 think people are really excited for I think so too. Well, all right, 20 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:56.959 miss Brittany. We were joined by Tyler Strand. Tyler, how are 21 00:01:57.000 --> 00:02:00.760 you doing today, sir? I am doing awesome. I'm and I'm honored 22 00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:05.480 to be here. So thank you for inviting me out to your podcast. 23 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:07.280 No. Absolutely, And it's kind of funny. We were just kind of 24 00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:13.840 talking before we started to record here about the strange synchronistic way that kind of 25 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:17.000 brought you to Tales from the Dark, which was literally we were introducing, 26 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:22.039 you know, some friends of ours to hell youer and I was driving back 27 00:02:22.080 --> 00:02:23.319 to Missouri to go pick up our cats, and all of a sudden, 28 00:02:23.319 --> 00:02:25.360 I looked down at my phone. It says Tyler Strand heard of when my 29 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:31.719 messages, and I was like, what, Oh no, that's funny. 30 00:02:32.080 --> 00:02:35.639 So, you know, we definitely appreciate you taking the time. I know 31 00:02:35.680 --> 00:02:38.280 it's been a pretty hectic, so I do want to kind of touch base 32 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:40.080 real fast because some people might have just missed it. This episode's coming up 33 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:44.800 Monday, and your Goblin lottery, so to speak, just ended. Can 34 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:46.360 you kind of walk us through. What the Goblin Lottery was, You're gonna 35 00:02:46.360 --> 00:02:50.120 have any more of those in the future or was this like a one time 36 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:53.759 it just happened to work thing. So it's funny you bring it up. 37 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.960 So the Goblin Lottery was just kind of a term that I came up with 38 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:01.520 on the spot because I didn't quite know how to frame the chaos of it 39 00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:06.840 all in a positive light. So I figured it would be maybe more fun 40 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:09.360 for people to kind of view it as a sort of game, because it 41 00:03:09.439 --> 00:03:14.159 kind of is a lottery. So what the Goblin Lottery was, which I 42 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:20.639 just finished this yesterday, is I'm actually, unbeknownst to I think quite a 43 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:25.159 few people that might even be familiar with Hellier, I actually am the creator 44 00:03:25.319 --> 00:03:30.800 of the creature you see on the poster art for that docu series. So 45 00:03:30.960 --> 00:03:38.159 the Goblin that you see on that poster art is actually a sculpture that was 46 00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:44.280 hand crafted out of clay, and I created it years ago. I actually 47 00:03:44.319 --> 00:03:47.319 created that sculpture. Funny enough, before Hellier was an idea for filming. 48 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:53.599 However, that sculpture was made with that case in mind. I actually sculpted 49 00:03:53.599 --> 00:03:57.879 that before I even knew who the new Kirks were, which is kind of 50 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:02.199 funny, but I was familiar with their interviews that they had done previously that 51 00:04:02.400 --> 00:04:09.120 talked about these strange emails that came in. So between the Hopkinsville Goblin incident 52 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:15.240 and the Hellier case, I sculpted this creature that was kind of an amalgamation 53 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:21.360 of these different elements, which is why when you watch Hellier, the person 54 00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:27.680 who began this kind of journey, this mystery character named David. He sent 55 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:32.199 these emails and these photographs talking about these creatures that he believed were coming out 56 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:36.360 of an abandoned mind shaft at the edge of his property, and these creatures 57 00:04:36.360 --> 00:04:43.439 were terrorizing his family at night, doing odd stuff like stealing children's toys and 58 00:04:43.959 --> 00:04:50.839 shoving Christmas wreaths in the mailboxes. And by the time this gentleman allegedly witnessed 59 00:04:50.879 --> 00:04:56.199 these creatures for himself, the way that he described them and the way that 60 00:04:56.279 --> 00:05:00.800 they sort of look like in these few blurry photographs that he allegedly took, 61 00:05:00.279 --> 00:05:06.240 they sound almost more like gray aliens, which is interesting when it's framed in 62 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:13.160 a subterranean sense. So he talks about how they had small, round bird 63 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:17.720 like eyes and thin, lipless mouths. He doesn't really mention a presence of 64 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:24.839 ears. But when you take that account and you compare it to the Hopkinsville 65 00:05:24.879 --> 00:05:30.879 Goblin incident, which occurred in the nineteen fifties on the western end of Kentucky, 66 00:05:30.519 --> 00:05:35.560 they sounded very similar, very similar antics, so to speak. So 67 00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:43.839 the Hopkinsville Goblins, those had very prominent ears when you look at these kind 68 00:05:43.839 --> 00:05:46.480 of witness sketches in the way that they were described. So I took it 69 00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:51.199 upon myself to kind of make an amalgamation where I scaled those down. I 70 00:05:51.279 --> 00:05:57.800 made proportions a little more realistic, to look like something that you might see 71 00:05:57.839 --> 00:06:02.160 in nature, while retaining the descriptions that David gave of the eyes and the 72 00:06:02.240 --> 00:06:09.560 lips, but generally making something that both had a great alien type feel to 73 00:06:09.600 --> 00:06:14.920 it, but also something that kind of has a strange fay like feel to 74 00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:18.839 it without you know, keeping a sort of vagueness to the form. So 75 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:27.240 I sculpted that creature, and I actually molded that original sculpture, which is 76 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:31.839 what I make replicas of through casting. I cast them by hand, I 77 00:06:31.959 --> 00:06:36.120 paint them by hand, and there are these little busts that I create, 78 00:06:36.240 --> 00:06:44.639 So they became a sort of collector's item amongst people who enjoy the docuseries, 79 00:06:44.800 --> 00:06:49.800 and every so often I'll make reproductions of it from the original molding and I 80 00:06:49.879 --> 00:06:56.639 sell them. So the other day I had a very finite amount of them 81 00:06:56.720 --> 00:06:59.920 that I just finished. I had ten of them, and I know there's 82 00:06:59.920 --> 00:07:02.639 a lot of people who have wanted them, so to keep things fair, 83 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:08.480 I sort of titled it the Goblin Lottery, and I had first come, 84 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:12.680 first serve, and I had everyone send me a message if they're interested in 85 00:07:12.720 --> 00:07:18.480 purchase at precisely eight pm Eastern Standard time, and whatever the internet or the 86 00:07:18.480 --> 00:07:25.560 algorithm decided was the first ten people to enter those messages are the ones who 87 00:07:25.680 --> 00:07:30.480 receive them. So that's I just finished that, so still working through it, 88 00:07:30.480 --> 00:07:33.120 I suppose. Well. I absolutely love that. I also love the 89 00:07:33.519 --> 00:07:38.879 term Goblin lottery because it again the synchronicities have just been piling up. It 90 00:07:38.920 --> 00:07:44.279 reminds me the first time we went to meet Geraldine Sutton Smith in this weird 91 00:07:44.319 --> 00:07:46.360 way, I just kind of a shot her of message. I said, 92 00:07:46.360 --> 00:07:51.360 Hey, I'm potentially working on this filming project project piece, would you be 93 00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:55.639 available for an interview? And Geraldine and all of her amazingness, which you're 94 00:07:55.639 --> 00:07:57.600 like, yeah, come to my house. Here's my address. And I 95 00:07:57.639 --> 00:08:01.040 was like, oh wow, very cool, okay, perfect. So we 96 00:08:01.160 --> 00:08:03.279 make the drive and we we go and do a little interview with Geraldine, 97 00:08:03.360 --> 00:08:07.160 like in her kitchen, which was just awesome. And my favorite, my 98 00:08:07.199 --> 00:08:11.319 favorite policy was her twenty cats, and I was just sitting there love it 99 00:08:11.360 --> 00:08:13.480 on every single one of them. I was in heaven. I was in 100 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:18.839 cat heaven right there. I swear, Oh that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. 101 00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:22.079 So we we go down. We talked to Geraldine and at the end, 102 00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:24.439 she gives us these uh, you know, the little Hopkinsville Goblin figurines 103 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:28.800 that she makes, and she hands it to me. I flip it over. 104 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:30.800 She's like, oh, well they're all numbered. They have certificates of 105 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.759 authenticity, so no one has the same one. And of course, by 106 00:08:33.879 --> 00:08:37.919 happenstance, mine was number ninety three. And oh that's incredible. Yeah, 107 00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:43.000 And I'm like fresh off my us and you know, it was one of 108 00:08:43.039 --> 00:08:46.480 those things like I thought it hit the lottery. So when I saw Goblin 109 00:08:46.519 --> 00:08:50.000 lottery come across Instagram, like that's got to be like one of the like 110 00:08:50.000 --> 00:08:52.480 because no one knows that story. I don't even I've really told that on 111 00:08:52.519 --> 00:08:54.279 the podcast before, so it was really think if you did, it was 112 00:08:54.320 --> 00:08:58.200 way early on. So yeah, that's very very interesting. Yeah, oh, 113 00:08:58.240 --> 00:09:01.759 that's that's very very cool. You know what's funny. I actually own 114 00:09:01.799 --> 00:09:07.320 one of those myself and I had the so you'll find this detail very interesting. 115 00:09:07.559 --> 00:09:11.799 And I don't think many people are aware of this, but this is 116 00:09:11.840 --> 00:09:16.440 something that came about before we had even checked the maps to find straight lines 117 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.360 on all these pinpoints they go across the US. One of the first things 118 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:24.879 that sort of tipped me off to that kind of strangeness is back in twenty 119 00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:31.679 seventeen during the solar eclips that occurred here in the US, the total solar 120 00:09:31.679 --> 00:09:37.720 eclips. What's really interesting about that is that total solar eclips actually happened on 121 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:46.679 the exact anniversary date of the Hopkinsville Goblin incident, and Hopkinsville itself is actually 122 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:50.480 on the path, like perfectly on the path of totality for where that total 123 00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:56.399 solar eclipse occurred. So when I traveled down into Kentucky in twenty seventeen, 124 00:09:56.000 --> 00:10:03.559 this was all pre hellier. I was actually witnessed two of the solar eclips 125 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:09.200 on the Sutton Farm really on the anniversary date of when that happened, which 126 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.399 I find very curious. So I was actually able to meet Geraldine for the 127 00:10:13.399 --> 00:10:16.720 first time when I traveled there, and I was able to secure one of 128 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.720 her pajama goblins. Oh yeah, she so is by hand. We have 129 00:10:20.879 --> 00:10:26.360 like seven of her goblins at this point. It's we're basically fay ourselves because 130 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.000 we have so many trinkets. It's not even funny. But no, I 131 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:35.080 remember where I was too. I completely forgot that there was a total solar 132 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.960 eclipse. I was in the mountains of western North Carolina up on one of 133 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.919 the ridges and parkways. I've never been there before, and we watched it. 134 00:10:43.919 --> 00:10:46.559 That's really cool. I didn't know. Wow, I didn't know that 135 00:10:46.720 --> 00:10:50.720 was on the anniversary of the Hopkinsil Goblins. Yeah, it was very strange, 136 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:54.679 very strange timing. And that was one of those things that's like, 137 00:10:54.799 --> 00:10:58.639 huh, where does this? Does something like this happen in other areas? 138 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:01.000 You know, Is there's something to do with these these sort of lines, 139 00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:07.360 you know. I always thought that was kind of curious, and I anticipated 140 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:11.960 it because even before twenty seventeen, I became aware that it was going to 141 00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.480 land on the anniversary date. I think like two years prior to it happening, 142 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:22.799 like probably back in either twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. I ended up 143 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:24.559 finding out that it was going to happen, so it was just kind of 144 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:31.679 waiting waiting for that to occur, and it was quite the adventure I drove. 145 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:39.039 I drove from Western Pennsylvania where I currently live, eight hours straight starting 146 00:11:39.080 --> 00:11:43.960 at midnight, and I rolled up to the event as the sun was rising, 147 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:48.360 so there were like two days of not sleeping by the time I spent 148 00:11:48.440 --> 00:11:52.120 all day there, and then I got trapped in Kentucky. Funny enough, 149 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:58.000 because there were so many vehicles leaving this small town at one time that it 150 00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:03.840 became one of those blocked bottleneck areas that I ended up hearing that it took 151 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:07.879 people eight hours just to leave Hopkinsville. I ended up having to actually crash 152 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.159 at a gas station because traffic was so bad. It was so built up. 153 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:16.440 I uh so I got stranded there. Believe it or not, it 154 00:12:16.519 --> 00:12:20.480 just sounds like unestly, it was very bad. I was going in out 155 00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:24.120 of consciousness while waiting for a place I could pull off because I was I 156 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:28.919 was so tired. I was so exhausted from the heat and everything. But 157 00:12:28.960 --> 00:12:31.480 it was very beautiful. It was very eerie. It was the first time 158 00:12:31.519 --> 00:12:37.240 I had ever witnessed a total solar eclips and as of yet the only time 159 00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:41.480 actually, uh, And it was very strange. It was one of those 160 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:48.279 moments where, given the the time and place, I wasn't quite certain if 161 00:12:48.320 --> 00:12:52.840 that would have some kind of strange effect, I guess, but it was. 162 00:12:52.879 --> 00:12:56.200 It was very beautiful to witness, but also very eerie to be there 163 00:12:56.240 --> 00:13:00.200 when it happened. Well, what's crazy about that as well, is it 164 00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:03.440 just so happens because it's one small ring that goes around the entire Earth that 165 00:13:03.879 --> 00:13:09.639 you can actually see the full total solar eclipse. So it just happened to 166 00:13:09.679 --> 00:13:13.480 be on the same day of the Hopkinsville Goblins, and it just so happened 167 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:20.480 to be visible, extremely visible in the area where it happened. Like that's 168 00:13:20.600 --> 00:13:24.559 that's a very one in a million, one billion kind of chance. Yeah, 169 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:28.320 it was very strange, and there's seems to be abundance of those strange 170 00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:33.919 things that line up in that way. Anomalies in general definitely bring out a 171 00:13:33.960 --> 00:13:37.360 lot of high strangeness. So it's very strange, but yeah, it was 172 00:13:37.399 --> 00:13:41.399 almost it's pretty much perfectly in the center of the path of totality from when 173 00:13:41.440 --> 00:13:48.200 that happened. So there were like millions of people that were in that general 174 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.120 area in Kentucky, let alone a lot of people that were at this event 175 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:58.480 that was taking place just to celebrate the Hopkinsville incident, which is you know 176 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.919 where I was at. So it was very unique and that's why, like 177 00:14:03.519 --> 00:14:07.559 I knew I needed to travel out there because it was such a once in 178 00:14:07.600 --> 00:14:13.960 a lifetime kind of opportunity to immerse myself in that one moment, and it 179 00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:18.120 was worth it. It was a good memory for me. That's that's absolutely 180 00:14:18.120 --> 00:14:22.080 incredible. So I want before we get too deep into Kentucky because I know 181 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:26.440 that's where this podcast is going to head very quickly. Yeah, I do 182 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.840 want to talk about your special effects background, because I always find it interesting 183 00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:33.080 to look at these little quips and growing up in the nineties, I kind 184 00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.360 of had this conversation with Brittany about whether or not this is true. I 185 00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:41.360 feel like nineties early two thousands was that like last Golden Area era rather of 186 00:14:41.399 --> 00:14:45.399 special effects makeup, and I was kind of doing some digging. I wanted 187 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:48.559 to get your opinion as well as you know, figure out your special effects 188 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:52.559 background on Joel Heineg specifically because you know, we know his father, we 189 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:56.120 know the Predator series. Now we have these sightings from Ryald, West, 190 00:14:56.159 --> 00:15:01.480 Virginia, Lima, Ohio, all over Kentucky of these predator like cloaked beings. 191 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:03.759 Do you find that more than a synchronousy like do you think maybe his 192 00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:07.559 dad told them something in passing? And then we have the modern predator that 193 00:15:07.559 --> 00:15:13.440 we know. Oh that's interesting. So when you talk about these predator type 194 00:15:13.480 --> 00:15:18.759 sightings, are you referring to this kind of like invisible form that people see 195 00:15:18.759 --> 00:15:24.279 shifting around or does this look more like physically like when you're able to see 196 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:26.320 it in the film? No, like like the type of being they see 197 00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:31.559 them in trees or they'll see them like yeah, yeah, like a distortion, 198 00:15:31.720 --> 00:15:35.759 that clear distortion. I've heard of those incidents. And you know what's 199 00:15:35.759 --> 00:15:39.919 funny with that question is it brings up a lot of interesting speculation that I 200 00:15:39.960 --> 00:15:43.600 think you could look at from two opposite ends. And this is something that 201 00:15:43.639 --> 00:15:50.799 I'm always kind of grappling with myself when it comes to looking at how pop 202 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:56.240 culture affects the forms these things take, so it's not necessarily a popular theory 203 00:15:56.720 --> 00:16:02.039 at the moment, at least not amongst the majority. But my stance on 204 00:16:02.200 --> 00:16:07.679 these various forms that this phenomenon takes is that even though I think there are 205 00:16:07.759 --> 00:16:12.759 elements that tend to repeat, and one could look at some aspects of evidence 206 00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:18.240 left behind as being proof positive that they were nothing but physical, I don't 207 00:16:18.279 --> 00:16:23.039 necessarily agree with or believe that these things are entirely physical. I think they're 208 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:29.120 physical when they're physical, and then I think they're more like ghosts when they're 209 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:33.080 not, which is why I think it's so difficult to nail them down, 210 00:16:33.159 --> 00:16:36.799 let alone find them or capture them, you know, in the various forms 211 00:16:36.840 --> 00:16:41.759 and ways that people try to And with that kind of speculation, I think 212 00:16:41.799 --> 00:16:48.440 there's an abundance of evidence out there to suggest that these things can even look 213 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:52.200 different depending on who's looking. Even if someone is standing shoulder to shoulder, 214 00:16:52.879 --> 00:16:59.039 two people can have a sighting of something that's outside of themselves, but that 215 00:16:59.159 --> 00:17:03.519 thing that they see can look wildly different. You know. An example I 216 00:17:03.559 --> 00:17:07.039 always bring up is I know a husband and a wife who were witnessed to 217 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:12.359 a UFO event over Lake, Michigan, and when they saw this UFO fly 218 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:18.599 in front of them, the wife saw what looked like a giant, luminous 219 00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:23.119 jellyfish like object swim through the air, while her husband, who was standing 220 00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:26.000 right next to her, did not see that at all. What he was 221 00:17:26.039 --> 00:17:32.480 witnessed to was a giant thunderbird like sighting. And that's interesting because when you 222 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:37.759 look at areas of high strangeness, you will find big bird sightings. And 223 00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:40.319 when I say big bird sightings, I don't mean like, oh, here's 224 00:17:40.319 --> 00:17:44.759 a turkey vulture. They're like these giant, larger than life, larger than 225 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:48.640 possible birds that are just historic, yeah, prehistoric looking yeah. And you 226 00:17:48.720 --> 00:17:52.480 find that, and it's and it's frustrating in a way when you see the 227 00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.839 way pop culture has dictated the way people think about these things, because I 228 00:17:56.839 --> 00:18:02.279 think there's a lot of people who hear sightings or hear about sightings of big 229 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:04.160 birds and they throw it in the cryptid bin and they're like, well, 230 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:07.079 this is a cryptid and it's physically out there, it's an unknown animal. 231 00:18:07.599 --> 00:18:11.559 And I don't agree with that. I don't think any of these things are 232 00:18:11.759 --> 00:18:15.240 unknown animals. And I don't think they're just out there waiting to be captured 233 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:21.920 by a fisherman's net or a trail camera. I think we're dealing with something 234 00:18:22.680 --> 00:18:26.400 that can take many forms. I think it's more a cult in nature. 235 00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:32.240 I think it's more like a ghost, and I think those forms are partially, 236 00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:37.039 not completely, but can be partially dictated by our own set of symbols 237 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.400 and our own state of mind. That's just my speculation. So when it 238 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:47.680 comes to something like the Predator and placing it in the viewpoint of say pop 239 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:52.359 culture, like an existing monster, I think that opens up a whole other 240 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:56.799 can of worms with that angle, And I think that angle is part of 241 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:02.000 why we see monsters the way we do. I don't doubt that the monsters 242 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:07.279 we create for entertainment, even if they stemmed from fiction, I don't doubt 243 00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.519 that some of those forms may actually repeat or end up being witnessed by people 244 00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.960 having an actual occurrence. And I think it's because those forms are in the 245 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:22.039 zeitgeist people that kind of stuff is on people's minds. A good example of 246 00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:26.720 this, even though this is a whole other can of worms, there are 247 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:33.440 a lot of strange sightings of monsters that when people encounter them, they're actually 248 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:40.240 wearing flannel shirts. And there are incidents that I've heard from people like my 249 00:19:40.279 --> 00:19:47.000 friend Tim Renner. He's interviewed people who have had sightings of something like a 250 00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:51.680 werewolf and that thing was wearing a flannel shirt, you know, and we 251 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.759 see that. You know, that's like very much like a Hollywood monster trope. 252 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:57.680 So I think someone could go, well, what came first a chicken 253 00:19:57.759 --> 00:20:00.880 or the egg? Or does does this prove that it's just in someone's head 254 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:03.839 because they watched a monster movie? Like, I don't think that's the case. 255 00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:08.400 I don't think that means it's false, but I think it shows evidence 256 00:20:08.599 --> 00:20:14.759 that there are elements of these things that latch onto what's in the collective mind 257 00:20:14.839 --> 00:20:18.359 of people. So I don't doubt that something even like Predator and that kind 258 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:23.400 of cloaking device, you know, is something that carries over. And when 259 00:20:23.440 --> 00:20:30.079 we talk about these kind of unknown things taking any kind of form, you 260 00:20:30.119 --> 00:20:37.000 know, what's so symbolic of that or other than something that is just translucent 261 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.240 and vague and generalized. So whether or not he was inspired by something that 262 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:47.480 maybe he was witnessed who I can't say, but I think there's elements as 263 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:52.559 well as how we create our monsters that like the people who make monsters are 264 00:20:52.599 --> 00:20:56.720 also people who are tapping into a kind of collective idea. And I think 265 00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:00.920 there's a lot to the formation of mind monsters, even when fictionalized, that 266 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:07.640 still come from a place of like one's own natural unconscious, And I think 267 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:12.319 our unconscious also has these forms inside of it, the same way this phenomena 268 00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:18.039 has. So I don't think we even have to look at one necessarily causing 269 00:21:18.079 --> 00:21:22.920 the other, because I think they both cause each other at the same time. 270 00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:27.839 They're both an aspect of nature. Our imagination is an aspect of nature, 271 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:32.640 and I think these things, whatever they are, are also plugged in 272 00:21:32.720 --> 00:21:37.279 and connected to those aspects of our imagination. So I think someone could go 273 00:21:37.359 --> 00:21:40.519 back and forth all day and go, well, what came first, the 274 00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:42.240 chicken or the egg, you know, And I don't think there's going to 275 00:21:42.279 --> 00:21:45.799 be a clear answer there. I think it goes back and forth and it 276 00:21:45.839 --> 00:21:52.039 repeats a lot, like how two magnets attract each other. And I think 277 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:56.039 creativity is of that same fabric. So I don't doubt and it's not a 278 00:21:56.079 --> 00:22:03.519 shock to me that people are seen forms that imitate or are reminiscent of modern 279 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.720 pop culture monsters, you know, But I don't think that makes them false, 280 00:22:07.839 --> 00:22:11.880 and I don't think that means it was in their head. I just 281 00:22:11.960 --> 00:22:15.599 think it furthers that discussion, and it furthers that stance that I just laid 282 00:22:15.599 --> 00:22:22.599 out, that we're dealing with something that's more complex than the rigid flesh and 283 00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.559 blood barriers that we've placed around these sort of things in their separate categories. 284 00:22:27.599 --> 00:22:33.319 Air quotes well to expand on that as well. When it comes to the 285 00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:37.920 dial and all its mind with the Kampollion, you know, everything that we're 286 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.200 talking about on that, you know, and a lot of these theories and 287 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:45.480 ancient theories that have been talked about and philosophies have been passed down through generation 288 00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:51.319 generation. You know, people say that everything that ever was and everything that 289 00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:56.079 ever will be is all connected to the one mind and the hive mind and 290 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.599 hive mind of consciousness and subconsciousness, and to be able to act sense that 291 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:04.799 would be the key downlocks the universe. But if we really are connected on 292 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:08.440 that kind of level spiritually, then it would make sense that people will be 293 00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:15.720 able to pull from that collective knowledge and manifest and create these beings, these 294 00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.920 monsters whatever that come from right where we're at our own reality, we just 295 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:25.200 can't see them. Yeah. Sure, And I think there's even you know, 296 00:23:25.559 --> 00:23:30.160 for people that find those kinds of topics hard to digest, like when 297 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:34.559 we even bring up, you know, spirituality and these kind of mental aspects 298 00:23:34.599 --> 00:23:38.799 of it. I think there's even a more naturalistic way one could view that 299 00:23:38.880 --> 00:23:44.559 if that's maybe you know, not in their wheelhouse in the sense that like, 300 00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.480 I don't, I don't think that sort of collective is anything other than 301 00:23:48.559 --> 00:23:53.200 natural. And we see evidence of this in just the form's nature takes itself. 302 00:23:53.799 --> 00:24:00.000 And a good example of this is I find it infinitely fat fascinating that 303 00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:07.400 there are animals that replicate the forms of other animals to evade their own natural 304 00:24:07.440 --> 00:24:11.720 predators. So an example I always try to bring up is like there are 305 00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:17.880 moths and butterflies that when they expand their wings, the tips of their wings 306 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:21.920 actually have the form of what looks like a snake on them, or the 307 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.400 color, yeah, the color of a snake, but but literally there's one 308 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:27.960 that it looks like the head of a snake, it's eye and everything it 309 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:34.240 mimics the form of a snake, even though it's a completely separate organism evolution 310 00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:38.079 in some way, shape or form, there is something in that ethor that 311 00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:42.920 even if you want to talk about the selective breeding and evolution of what allows 312 00:24:42.920 --> 00:24:47.799 something to survive and carry on traits, we still have to look at nature 313 00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:52.400 and accept that there are things that might not even be aware of the forms 314 00:24:52.440 --> 00:24:57.599 they take, and yet they're mimicking something completely separate from themselves. And to 315 00:24:57.839 --> 00:25:03.160 think that we as human beings are separate from that, I think is very 316 00:25:03.400 --> 00:25:10.359 ignorant, a very ignorant stance, which is why that even opens up interesting 317 00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:14.599 discussions and we talk about where our ideas of mythology come from. When we 318 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.559 have repeating stories and we have repeating folklore. You know, I really do 319 00:25:18.640 --> 00:25:25.519 believe there's a space in our own DNA that has these forms in it. 320 00:25:25.839 --> 00:25:30.680 I think imagination itself is a product of our natural environment and a product of 321 00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.960 the earth itself. So I think there's bigger questions that can even be asked 322 00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:41.359 where it's like, why do we have mythological forms? And when we see 323 00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:45.799 those mythological forms again, what came first chicken or the egg? Is it 324 00:25:45.839 --> 00:25:52.160 really us manifesting things outside of ourselves with our own imagination, or do we 325 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:59.000 have those imaginations because there's an element of us, that primal element that we 326 00:25:59.119 --> 00:26:03.039 don't tap into consciously all the time, that is just aware of the things 327 00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.599 that are out in the world and we get glimpses of that through imagination, 328 00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:11.920 you know. So it's you know, I think all of that is present, 329 00:26:12.039 --> 00:26:17.039 and we see that that's present even by just observing wildlife, you know, 330 00:26:17.079 --> 00:26:18.720 in the forms they take. You know, the fact that there's insects 331 00:26:18.759 --> 00:26:22.880 that mimic the forms of leaves. You know, we're talking about two completely 332 00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:29.839 separate forms of living organisms on the planet that have nothing in common with themselves, 333 00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:33.720 and yet we see mimicry happen often in nature. So when we talk 334 00:26:33.759 --> 00:26:41.480 about mimicry being an element of the supernatural, like, it doesn't make mimicry 335 00:26:41.559 --> 00:26:47.400 a supernatural element that's all stuffed terrestrial to your own planet. I just don't 336 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:52.720 think people have that overview of it, which is why they ignore that or 337 00:26:52.759 --> 00:26:59.759 they place these extra terms on things as being supernatural or unnatural. I don't 338 00:26:59.799 --> 00:27:04.880 think any of this stuff is unnatural or let alone outside the realm of what 339 00:27:04.920 --> 00:27:10.960 we already see as a physical truth in our own ecosystem. But you know, 340 00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.960 obviously there's stranger elements that we don't grasp. Given where we fall on 341 00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.359 that scale, I guess you know there's I think there's still a lot of 342 00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:23.440 mystery, and I think we as living organisms still have a lot of our 343 00:27:23.480 --> 00:27:29.480 own blind spots that regardless of how advanced we think we are, we're still 344 00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.359 just one small animal with its limited knowledge base. That doesn't mean there aren't 345 00:27:33.400 --> 00:27:37.319 other animals out there that can know and see and do more things than what 346 00:27:37.359 --> 00:27:41.039 you're capable of, the same way we can do and see more things than 347 00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.480 what certain animals are capable of. I think all living things have their blind 348 00:27:45.519 --> 00:27:52.759 spots, and I think that's why these monsters that we talk about seemingly pop 349 00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.039 out of the fabric, out of nowhere, and that we try to overrationalize 350 00:27:56.079 --> 00:28:00.000 it by saying, oh, well, it must be from another dimension, 351 00:28:00.279 --> 00:28:04.440 or it must be from space. You know, a fish that doesn't know 352 00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:08.000 about human beings on the surface would say the same thing about us. But 353 00:28:08.119 --> 00:28:14.200 we're still from one place. And I like to think that these things, 354 00:28:14.880 --> 00:28:19.240 as supernatural as we believe them to be, are in fact likely terrestrial to 355 00:28:19.319 --> 00:28:23.200 our own human condition and our own planet. I don't think these things are 356 00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:26.400 coming from anywhere other than here, if you were to ask my personal opinion. 357 00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:30.880 But I think the only reason why people speculate that they don't is because 358 00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:37.039 of the ignorance that we prescribe ourselves with how high and mighty we believe ourselves 359 00:28:37.119 --> 00:28:38.720 to be. Well, one thing I definitely want to add it to that 360 00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.799 before I pass it on to Bob is the fact that we are actively during 361 00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:49.240 this day like today, we are actively discovering new information, new civilizations, 362 00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:56.680 new everything that we thought we knew about our evolution, about other ancient civilizations, 363 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:00.400 about everything about beliefs and gods. New gods and things like that are 364 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:06.160 also being found. We are actively discovering who we are as humans on a 365 00:29:06.279 --> 00:29:11.000 terrestrial level. So when you combine that with the ignorance of that, you 366 00:29:11.000 --> 00:29:14.480 know, supernatural might not actually be here, might be in space, or 367 00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.599 it doesn't exist at all. You do have to have kind of an open 368 00:29:17.680 --> 00:29:21.079 mind because we don't even know who we really are. Nothing is set in 369 00:29:21.160 --> 00:29:26.440 stone. We're constantly in a state of discovery. And you know, meant 370 00:29:26.480 --> 00:29:29.680 in my opinion as well, and you know, I know belief is the 371 00:29:29.799 --> 00:29:36.440 enemy, but you know, mental mental development and mental stimulation when it comes 372 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:40.799 to the paranormal, supernatural, cryptids, UFOs, whatever is the next step 373 00:29:40.839 --> 00:29:45.720 in my opinion, that we personally have been exploring and looking into. I 374 00:29:45.440 --> 00:29:48.400 agree with you one hundred percent on that. I really do think that's going 375 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:55.400 to be something that really opens a lot of the necessary dialogue that I think 376 00:29:55.640 --> 00:30:02.359 we're lacking. I do think mental phenomen enough and those aspects of the self 377 00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.759 that we don't that we still don't really understand about ourselves are a key component 378 00:30:07.799 --> 00:30:11.079 to the way these things present, even though you know they're seemingly outside of 379 00:30:11.160 --> 00:30:17.039 us. It's just it's just I believe some way they're wired, you know, 380 00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:19.200 And but it doesn't mean that's not how we're wired. I think we 381 00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:22.839 are, and that's why we have these experiences. But it's it's like some 382 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:27.519 aspect of ourselves we just don't quite understand fully and it's a mystery. So 383 00:30:27.640 --> 00:30:32.519 by default it's going to be confusing to people, you know, when we 384 00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:34.759 when we come across these things. But but I really do think it all 385 00:30:36.799 --> 00:30:41.000 has its place in the grand scheme of things and the way the world works. 386 00:30:41.640 --> 00:30:45.240 It's just a fraction of that world that I don't think we're very well 387 00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:51.359 versed in, even though on some primal level, I think we have those 388 00:30:51.400 --> 00:30:56.960 elements in us and we have continually interacted in those ways. It's it's just 389 00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:02.559 a complicated thing. It's exists in a different pattern of thinking than the pattern 390 00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:07.839 that we need to rely on to get through our normal, everyday lives. 391 00:31:07.920 --> 00:31:11.680 And I think that's why it's hard for people to really get wired into this 392 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:17.039 stuff or grasp it in the way that they need to. It's complicated, 393 00:31:17.079 --> 00:31:21.279 and it's okay to understand that. Yeah, you know, at the end 394 00:31:21.319 --> 00:31:25.759 of the day, there is a lot of mystery, and I think I 395 00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:30.240 think the healthiest thing for us to do is just to understand we really don't 396 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:33.720 know a whole lot about these things. Even though there are people who can 397 00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:38.319 know a lot with what's available, it's still so finite. At the end 398 00:31:38.319 --> 00:31:44.079 of the day, it's a mystery, and I think it's far better healthier 399 00:31:44.319 --> 00:31:48.480 to acknowledge that we don't know what these things are and to be open to 400 00:31:48.599 --> 00:31:52.039 understanding that we don't really know anything. I think we'd make a lot more 401 00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:56.960 progress if we spend more time acknowledging how much we don't know, rather than 402 00:31:56.559 --> 00:32:00.799 trying to be so emboldened to convince is that we do know what we're talking 403 00:32:00.839 --> 00:32:05.880 about as and I see that a lot. There's a lot of people who 404 00:32:05.920 --> 00:32:08.920 speak in absolutes when they talk about what they think this stuff is, and 405 00:32:10.200 --> 00:32:14.599 it just comes off as silly to me. It comes off as like I'm 406 00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:20.240 listening to a fantasy fiction writer tell me about something, even though there's fantastical 407 00:32:20.319 --> 00:32:22.359 elements. It's I think there's a way you can do that, and I 408 00:32:22.359 --> 00:32:27.359 think there's a healthy way to have certain biases about what these things might be. 409 00:32:28.079 --> 00:32:31.039 But I also think you can do that while retaining that there is a 410 00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:36.400 mystery there that even with what we do know about it, it's still not 411 00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:39.480 an answer. Oh one thing I was just gonna hop in real quick. 412 00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:44.359 One thing that we talked about consistently on the podcast is that there are no 413 00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:46.960 experts in this field. There are people that know way more than we do. 414 00:32:47.039 --> 00:32:50.480 There are people that probably know more, way more than you do, 415 00:32:50.599 --> 00:32:57.279 Tyler. But to call yourself an expert is to claim that you've mastered something 416 00:32:57.319 --> 00:33:00.599 in a field, and that's just not possible. In my onion for anything 417 00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:05.880 paranormal, cryptid, anything to do with high stranges with your students, and 418 00:33:05.920 --> 00:33:09.799 we're still constantly learning and adapting to what new high strang has to bring and 419 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:14.759 has to offer. Sure, I can agree with that. I mean, 420 00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:19.160 I do think one could say that, you know, when it comes to 421 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:22.480 knowledge base there, yeah, you know, there's certainly people who know a 422 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:25.559 lot, and there's people like if you had to put those terms on you 423 00:33:25.599 --> 00:33:30.079 could. But at the same time, I think in more than one walk 424 00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.119 of life, I think it's the best stance you can have is acknowledging that 425 00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:37.480 you're forever a student, because that it's only when you think you're not that's 426 00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:42.640 when you start to lose it. That's when you start to lose I don't 427 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.359 know that's not necessarily a sense of wonder, but I think you fall off 428 00:33:45.359 --> 00:33:50.119 the path. I never expect to not be a student when it comes to 429 00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:52.920 this. I don't think there's ever going to be a time in my life 430 00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:53.799 where I'm going to go, wow, I figured it out, guys. 431 00:33:54.400 --> 00:34:00.359 You know. So it's like, I think it's so healthy for people have 432 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:05.759 that mindset, and I think it keeps you on the right path, you 433 00:34:05.759 --> 00:34:10.840 know, it's it's a complicated topic and it's infinitely interesting, and there's no 434 00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:15.000 matter how much you dig into it, there's not I don't think there's enough 435 00:34:15.039 --> 00:34:19.480 time in one human life span to ever be able to learn at all. 436 00:34:20.079 --> 00:34:24.480 And that's another like difficult thing to acknowledge and grasp is like you can get 437 00:34:24.519 --> 00:34:29.639 far and you can learn a lot, I think, but I don't think 438 00:34:29.679 --> 00:34:32.280 you're ever going to be able to see the whole picture, because I really 439 00:34:32.360 --> 00:34:37.920 do think a lot of this stuff goes far beyond the time that we're given 440 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:42.079 here individually. No, I would completely agree with that, And I want 441 00:34:42.079 --> 00:34:46.559 to kind of ask you what got you into this field of work, specifically 442 00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:50.000 when it comes to the paranormal, because one thing about how you're that stuck 443 00:34:50.000 --> 00:34:53.199 out to me is someone who's been a ghost hunter for fifteen years, however 444 00:34:53.239 --> 00:34:55.800 long it's been. You know, again, in the beginning, it was 445 00:34:55.840 --> 00:35:00.599 just me my friends talking to a dollar General quarter hoping that ghosts would talk 446 00:35:00.639 --> 00:35:06.519 back. So you can't really count that necessarily, But what got you into 447 00:35:06.559 --> 00:35:09.920 the paranormal? And then as a solo investigator, what goes through your mind? 448 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:13.840 Do you feel like you're better off that way or it's just lack of 449 00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:15.039 options. There's not a lot of weirdos around that want to go out and 450 00:35:15.039 --> 00:35:17.599 do this with you, so you found it easier to kind of stick with 451 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:22.280 yourself when it comes to your investigation. Well, to start with the latter 452 00:35:22.639 --> 00:35:28.840 question, when it comes to like doing certain things alone, it's not that 453 00:35:29.000 --> 00:35:35.440 I necessarily think it's better to do things alone. Like I'm always open, 454 00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.880 you know, to working with people you know, and obviously have, but 455 00:35:39.199 --> 00:35:45.000 at the same time, I think, given my stance and the viewpoints I 456 00:35:45.039 --> 00:35:50.039 have on this phenomenon, now, the big difference with me when it comes 457 00:35:50.079 --> 00:35:54.840 to a lot of people who you know air quotes investigate these things or actively 458 00:35:54.920 --> 00:35:59.840 pursue them, is I am no longer like this might sound, this might 459 00:35:59.880 --> 00:36:05.800 be shocked some people listening, but I am no longer invested nor interested in 460 00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:12.440 trying to prove anything, So I don't I'm not in technically investigating anything. 461 00:36:13.239 --> 00:36:15.679 I can count on one hand how many times I've done anything that I can 462 00:36:16.400 --> 00:36:22.000 consider an investigation, Like I think you can say Hellier is an investigation since 463 00:36:22.039 --> 00:36:27.280 it required digging into stuff and trying to learn more things. But in the 464 00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.199 grand scope of things, it's like all that digging is just learning more about 465 00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:38.320 the phenomena. I don't necessarily think the way people have been led to believe 466 00:36:38.480 --> 00:36:44.800 one proves the paranormal or the kind of evidence people seek. I'm very skeptical 467 00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:47.400 of our capability of doing that. That's not to say that there hasn't been 468 00:36:47.480 --> 00:36:52.880 things captured, but I think it's very rare, and I think one could 469 00:36:52.920 --> 00:36:58.480 make an argument that when it is, it was done intentionally by whatever these 470 00:36:58.519 --> 00:37:04.559 things are. So well, when I'm exploring places like more than anything, 471 00:37:04.719 --> 00:37:08.480 I consider myself an explorer rather than an investigator, because I think it's more 472 00:37:08.559 --> 00:37:15.599 true to the the stance I take. You know, I'm always immersed in 473 00:37:15.800 --> 00:37:20.360 areas of strangeness, and I'm always immersed in places that can come with their 474 00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:24.760 experiences. But I'm not investigating. There's nothing for me to investigate. It's 475 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:29.199 just things that I'm aware of, and I go to places where I can 476 00:37:29.840 --> 00:37:34.679 study it or become closer to it. I'm not out to capture the next 477 00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:39.360 hot piece of video or the next EVP or convince someone that this is real, 478 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.480 because in the end, I don't even care anymore about if people believe 479 00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:47.440 in this or not. I don't think everyone ever will, and I think 480 00:37:47.480 --> 00:37:52.800 it's I think certain people are cut out for it more than others, and 481 00:37:52.840 --> 00:37:57.920 I don't think it's necessarily healthy for everyone who tries to pursue it. I 482 00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:02.199 think there's certain people who act as better translators for this phenomena than others, 483 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:07.800 and I think that's part of the problem we see with like some pop culture 484 00:38:07.840 --> 00:38:13.079 elements, where these things get really misconstrued. So for me, I'm more 485 00:38:13.119 --> 00:38:17.000 than anything. I'm an observer of this phenomena, and I place myself in 486 00:38:17.079 --> 00:38:23.679 scenarios where those things can fold naturally, and should they unfold naturally, I 487 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:29.679 will deliver those things to whoever is willing to listen. But it's not my 488 00:38:29.880 --> 00:38:36.000 job to investigate or convince anyone otherwise, Like I don't need to investigate things 489 00:38:36.039 --> 00:38:39.440 I already believe in. I'm not seeking an answer anymore. I'm seeking better 490 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:44.920 understanding, but I already have answers. I know the stuff is out there. 491 00:38:44.920 --> 00:38:50.920 I'm not trying to be convinced, but I think there's a great There's 492 00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:57.159 a vast difference between learning and reading about a thing and experiencing a thing, 493 00:38:57.320 --> 00:39:01.199 And I think the ones who are granted the opportunity, for better or for 494 00:39:01.320 --> 00:39:08.239 worse, to experience these things have a much greater understanding than the people who 495 00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:13.480 spend their lives reading about it. And that's why I place myself in a 496 00:39:13.480 --> 00:39:16.519 lot of places, and why I'm always exploring a lot of places, even 497 00:39:16.559 --> 00:39:20.559 if I'm alone. It's not that I'm like doing some formulaic thing where I 498 00:39:20.599 --> 00:39:24.480 have a recorder or I have a camera. It's understanding at this point that 499 00:39:24.559 --> 00:39:29.320 it's through experience that can give me a deeper understanding than all the books I 500 00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:34.360 read. And that's kind of the stance I take with all this stuff, 501 00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.960 like I don't have I don't have any one mission statement with it, Like 502 00:39:39.519 --> 00:39:45.400 I'm open to the unexpected avenues that will open up from the pursuit, and 503 00:39:45.480 --> 00:39:52.760 there's always unexpected things. I guess I've just I've detached myself from trying to 504 00:39:52.880 --> 00:40:00.760 predict where the next thing will lead, whether that be maybe cap evidence, 505 00:40:00.840 --> 00:40:05.280 or whether that be delivering a good piece of information to the public that they 506 00:40:05.280 --> 00:40:07.960 can consume, or whether that be just putting me down a different path in 507 00:40:08.000 --> 00:40:13.159 my own life. I think all those things collide. So I've almost become 508 00:40:13.239 --> 00:40:16.159 more free in a way where I don't have expectations. So I think that's 509 00:40:16.239 --> 00:40:22.159 why it's easier to be alone, because there's no expectations being put upon me 510 00:40:22.960 --> 00:40:27.960 by anyone else. Because most people have their own expectations because they're on their 511 00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:31.119 own path. So the long winded answer to that comes together right at what 512 00:40:31.159 --> 00:40:37.840 I said there is that I want to be free of expectation, because I 513 00:40:37.880 --> 00:40:42.360 think once you're free of expectation, that's when phenomena actually occurs. And that's 514 00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:47.119 a very difficult thing to practice. And I think that's something one could look 515 00:40:47.159 --> 00:40:52.119 at through a spiritual lens or an esoteric lens. And I think that's why 516 00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.800 most people don't experience things. It's because they want it too badly. They 517 00:40:57.679 --> 00:41:01.559 never reach the point where they accept that it's okay to let it unfold when 518 00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:05.960 it's supposed to or when it wants to, and that you're not the one 519 00:41:06.599 --> 00:41:09.280 in control of it. You're not the one who's going to go out and 520 00:41:09.320 --> 00:41:14.039 just capture it because you have a device in your hand. I think when 521 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:20.119 you unmarry yourself from those ideas, that's when these things become more aware, 522 00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:24.440 and they become more aware of you and you of it, and they pop 523 00:41:24.480 --> 00:41:29.639 out of the woodwork, which is why, like I'm not I'm not so 524 00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:35.119 sold anymore on being the one who's distracted by devices and going out with a 525 00:41:35.199 --> 00:41:40.519 mission to capture something. I place myself in scenarios where the unexpected can happen, 526 00:41:40.639 --> 00:41:45.960 and it can happen in secrecy because this phenomena value secrecy, and the 527 00:41:45.960 --> 00:41:52.840 only way that I can become the closest to that is by being alone in 528 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:58.400 lonely places. I guess is my stance on that. So I know it's 529 00:41:58.440 --> 00:42:02.199 like a long winded answer, but I hope that made sense. But when 530 00:42:02.239 --> 00:42:06.840 it comes to I'm sorry, what was the first question? The first part 531 00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:08.679 of that question, it was just literally what got you into investigating in the 532 00:42:08.719 --> 00:42:14.639 first place? Right, right? So it's funny too, like even that 533 00:42:14.800 --> 00:42:17.559 is something that's a little different because you know, I understand a lot of 534 00:42:17.599 --> 00:42:22.159 people get into this because they had an experience, you know, whether they 535 00:42:22.159 --> 00:42:25.679 were young or you know, regardless of age. But for me, I've 536 00:42:25.719 --> 00:42:29.960 always just been interested in it because like why wouldn't I be. It's the 537 00:42:29.960 --> 00:42:35.239 most fascinating topic one could ever like think about, Like, like we're talking 538 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:40.519 about this grand hidden thing that permeates a reality let alone affects people every day, 539 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.039 so to me, I always just had a natural interest in it, 540 00:42:45.079 --> 00:42:50.400 even though I did have experiences when I was younger, like I've had experiences 541 00:42:50.400 --> 00:42:54.440 that are very strange that I've not even publicly spoken on yet. So I 542 00:42:54.719 --> 00:43:00.480 could have used that sort of excuse to justify why I'm into it, But 543 00:43:00.519 --> 00:43:04.159 the reality is, whether those things happened or not, I still would have 544 00:43:04.199 --> 00:43:08.719 been into it. And I think that's also a part of that message from 545 00:43:08.840 --> 00:43:13.800 the second half of the question is like, I think these things tend to 546 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:20.679 pop out of the woodwork more when someone genuinely has a thirst for knowledge rather 547 00:43:20.800 --> 00:43:24.800 than just experience, even though that can go hand in hand. You know, 548 00:43:24.840 --> 00:43:30.079 I'm not trying to say I'm not someone who wants that next experience, 549 00:43:31.119 --> 00:43:37.199 but I also know I'm someone who genuinely had moments in their life where I 550 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:45.639 was so thirsty for answers, so thirsty to know something else that's outside of 551 00:43:45.679 --> 00:43:51.360 the mundanity. I think it's that curiosity that summons these things forth, and 552 00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:55.119 I think that's why there's a lot of people who on a surface level, 553 00:43:57.119 --> 00:44:01.280 whether they're ghost hunting or looking for big Foot or looking for UFOs I think 554 00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:05.519 a lot of them are too experience driven, where they only want the thing 555 00:44:05.599 --> 00:44:07.800 to happen to them rather than the answers to happen to them. And I 556 00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:10.960 think that's also what kills it, because I really do think there is a 557 00:44:12.119 --> 00:44:16.559 deeper, hidden, secret element to why these things appear to those they appear 558 00:44:16.599 --> 00:44:24.039 to. And I think the seeking of knowledge is the fabric they're made of, 559 00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:30.519 which is why they pop out. But that's just my speculation, you 560 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:34.800 know, in my own experiences. I guess if that answers the questions, 561 00:44:35.239 --> 00:44:37.280 No, it absolutely does. And the one thing I wanted to add to 562 00:44:37.320 --> 00:44:40.480 that as well is, you know, talking more on the occult side, 563 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:46.239 is too expect will bring about feelings of either excitement or disappointment if you have 564 00:44:46.320 --> 00:44:51.920 a narrowed viewpoint of what you think should happen, and that's to be polarized. 565 00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:54.199 And sure, we're talking about the middle pillar ritual here. You want 566 00:44:54.239 --> 00:44:59.079 to be in a completely neutral state of being, of mind, of feeling 567 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:05.960 for you to participate or to execute any kind of ritual. And I think 568 00:45:05.960 --> 00:45:09.920 that's the same applies for any kind of investigation or exploring. Is when you 569 00:45:09.960 --> 00:45:17.559 go in with a neutral state of being that becomes a mold a you know, 570 00:45:19.000 --> 00:45:22.559 handful of clay that the phenomenon can then mold into what you're supposed to 571 00:45:22.559 --> 00:45:28.159 see or sure, yeah, and I can get behind that. I agree, 572 00:45:28.159 --> 00:45:30.239 there's elements of that, you know. And that's not to say, 573 00:45:30.480 --> 00:45:34.840 you know, I don't get excited, clearly I do. But you know, 574 00:45:34.880 --> 00:45:37.840 in the years that have passed, you know, in me getting deeper 575 00:45:37.840 --> 00:45:42.679 with this, I only become more and more reserved, and I've learned durin 576 00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:45.400 it in a bit more. But it's still like, you know, but 577 00:45:45.519 --> 00:45:51.880 even excitement though I don't doubt though there's still elements where the phenomena does feed 578 00:45:51.920 --> 00:45:54.440 off of that too, or does feed off of fear. I think it 579 00:45:54.559 --> 00:46:00.960 also at times requires those things as well, you know, but it's it 580 00:46:01.039 --> 00:46:06.119 is. There is something to be said though about just expectation in general that 581 00:46:06.360 --> 00:46:10.440 I think it blinds people to the more subtle things it presents. And I 582 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.679 think that's one of the most important aspects of why you shouldn't have expectation, 583 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:20.159 because I think there's a lot of people who've probably had really weird things happen 584 00:46:20.199 --> 00:46:24.280 in their life, but they were so expecting of only seeing like the big 585 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:30.480 thing which validates it that they never caught on to the weird little synchronicities that 586 00:46:30.519 --> 00:46:34.840 popped up beforehand. Well, think of it like horse visors, Like when 587 00:46:34.920 --> 00:46:37.760 you have expectation, you have a narrow way of thinking because that's how you 588 00:46:37.800 --> 00:46:42.599 think it's going to go. And you could absolutely be excited just for the 589 00:46:42.599 --> 00:46:45.920 sake of being excited, and that doesn't make you polarized. What I think 590 00:46:45.960 --> 00:46:50.760 makes you polarize is the fact that you have a vision of what you think 591 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:54.679 you're going to experience or see, and that can either a manipulate you how 592 00:46:54.719 --> 00:47:00.159 you interpret what you see and manipulate that idea, or be manipulated. It's 593 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:04.000 the energy around you, as it very well could I mean theoretically sure, 594 00:47:04.079 --> 00:47:08.840 hypothetically sure to change whether you do see something, what you do see, 595 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:13.719 or how you interpret it. So that's that's kind of how I was feeling 596 00:47:13.760 --> 00:47:16.360 about that. But yeah, absolutely I'm with you. I'm with you one 597 00:47:16.400 --> 00:47:21.440 hundred percent, and I'm with you one hundred percent on that. But like 598 00:47:21.480 --> 00:47:25.639 I said, also, I think there's also so much there's so much subtle 599 00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:30.880 phenomena that comes with this stuff, which is why, like you know, 600 00:47:30.000 --> 00:47:34.519 when it comes to not having expectations, like there's also this weird line. 601 00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:40.039 I think people need to learn to walk, which is like trusting in the 602 00:47:40.159 --> 00:47:44.960 little personal things that means stuff to you. And that doesn't mean like everything 603 00:47:45.039 --> 00:47:47.199 is a sign. That doesn't mean because because I see the negative aspect of 604 00:47:47.199 --> 00:47:52.119 that too, where people lean too far into that, where every little fallen 605 00:47:52.199 --> 00:47:55.920 leaf on the ground means something, and I that's a tricky thing to navigate 606 00:47:55.920 --> 00:48:00.199 in of itself. But there's a lot of stuff that springs up around the 607 00:48:00.239 --> 00:48:04.280 pursuit of this stuff. Not to use the word that we over use, 608 00:48:04.360 --> 00:48:07.639 but there are a lot of synchronicities that pop up, and I think those 609 00:48:07.679 --> 00:48:14.239 synchronicities can lead you to an understanding or lead to a story that's very strange 610 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:20.559 that is actual phenomena. But it's not like you're seeing some kind of monster 611 00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:30.000 or you're having some big, completely supernatural event that's unexplainable. I think there's 612 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:37.760 a lot of strangeness that happens that has a lot of plausible deniability behind it 613 00:48:38.480 --> 00:48:43.000 due to the nature of the subtlety it presents. And I think that's part 614 00:48:43.039 --> 00:48:47.039 of that secretive nature that goes along with these things. And I think the 615 00:48:47.079 --> 00:48:52.559 people who are stuck in that mode of thinking of like, oh, it's 616 00:48:52.559 --> 00:48:55.199 only when I see a ghost that is the ghost of the experience I'm seeking. 617 00:48:55.320 --> 00:49:00.639 Like there's other forms of experience that a lot of people don't hear about, 618 00:49:00.719 --> 00:49:05.199 you know, Like I've had some of the most amazing supernatural experiences in 619 00:49:05.239 --> 00:49:09.039 my local walmart because of strange things that have happened, you know. And 620 00:49:09.079 --> 00:49:15.480 it's like if I wasn't someone who was in that mindset to be receptive of 621 00:49:15.559 --> 00:49:21.679 the subtlety, the subtlety of strangeness that just permeates us all the time, 622 00:49:21.719 --> 00:49:24.559 that permeates reality all the time. I think a lot of people miss that 623 00:49:24.760 --> 00:49:29.639 because they're too busy chasing the big stuff. But the reality is the big 624 00:49:29.679 --> 00:49:32.960 stuff. It's not that it doesn't happen or won't happen. I just think 625 00:49:34.000 --> 00:49:37.920 that stuff is rare and it happens for some kind of reason. I think 626 00:49:37.960 --> 00:49:42.440 when it's meant to, and it will happen more if you allow the little 627 00:49:42.440 --> 00:49:46.800 things to happen first. And I think too many people jump headfirst into the 628 00:49:46.840 --> 00:49:52.480 deep end of the pool because they want to see the vast spaces of this 629 00:49:52.559 --> 00:49:55.119 stuff, but they haven't learned how to swim, and they drown, and 630 00:49:55.159 --> 00:50:00.760 they drown. Their ability to witness this phenomenon like you need, I think, 631 00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:07.920 I think people need to come to an understanding that there's a gradient scale 632 00:50:07.000 --> 00:50:13.119 to the immensity of how these things present and there's probably a lot of little 633 00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:17.519 subtle strangeness that presents itself in day to day life that gets ignored. So 634 00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:22.920 there's almost like a certain kind of sensitivity that I think is gained over time 635 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:29.519 of just being curious and speculating and thinking, and that also comes with that. 636 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.280 To go back to that question you guys had about why like being alone 637 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:39.039 sometimes is because like you're only at your most sensitive when you're alone because you're 638 00:50:39.079 --> 00:50:44.360 not putting on some kind of front or you're not engaging in some kind of 639 00:50:44.360 --> 00:50:50.159 social activity where you have to be completely present in a different way because there's 640 00:50:50.199 --> 00:50:57.320 someone else in your vicinity. I can be free to be vacant in a 641 00:50:57.360 --> 00:51:02.599 way when I'm alone where I don't have any any expectations or any expectations of 642 00:51:02.639 --> 00:51:06.400 thought. There's a lot of times and I'm in the woods alone where my 643 00:51:06.519 --> 00:51:09.239 head is completely empty, and I might not know why I'm there. You 644 00:51:09.239 --> 00:51:12.440 know, that's part of the strangeness of it all. I'm in a lot 645 00:51:12.480 --> 00:51:15.559 of weird areas for a lot of strange reasons that I myself don't always know 646 00:51:15.599 --> 00:51:20.440 why I'm there, but I understand there might be a point to it, 647 00:51:21.400 --> 00:51:23.920 all the while not expecting something to happen. But I can't be so, 648 00:51:25.239 --> 00:51:30.199 I can't be so untethered if I'm around someone. So I think that sensitivity 649 00:51:30.239 --> 00:51:35.679 and that that subtlety of allowing you know, things to happen in that way 650 00:51:35.800 --> 00:51:39.159 also benefits, you know, being alone sometimes. But that's not to say 651 00:51:39.159 --> 00:51:43.039 being alone is like to be all end all. It's just, you know, 652 00:51:43.360 --> 00:51:45.920 a personal thing that I think people should experience once in a while. 653 00:51:46.239 --> 00:51:52.920 Like even if, like if any of your listeners are exclusively people who ghost 654 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:55.760 hunt with teams, like, that's all fine and good, and I'm not 655 00:51:55.800 --> 00:52:01.760 trying to discredit anyone's methodology, geez. I think everyone comes to their own 656 00:52:04.679 --> 00:52:07.039 knowledge in their own ways, and I think they're all valuable. But I 657 00:52:07.079 --> 00:52:13.280 would encourage people to try and see how you feel and how many things you 658 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:16.000 go through when you are alone in a strange place. You know, do 659 00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:21.920 it safely, of course, don't do anything dangerous, but you go through 660 00:52:21.960 --> 00:52:27.679 so much mentally when you're alone, and that's something that like, you know, 661 00:52:27.719 --> 00:52:30.079 a personal change that I've seen in me in the last five years is 662 00:52:30.159 --> 00:52:36.360 like looking back and remembering how scared I was in the woods at night like 663 00:52:37.199 --> 00:52:40.239 five, six, you know, seven years ago, and now I can 664 00:52:40.519 --> 00:52:45.039 go into the woods with ease at night. That's not to say there aren't 665 00:52:45.039 --> 00:52:49.079 moments where like that fear comes back. There are you know, there's still 666 00:52:49.119 --> 00:52:52.679 moments where, like you know, parent paranoia that comes in. But it 667 00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:54.360 is not an easy thing to do, to be able to go into the 668 00:52:54.400 --> 00:52:58.760 woods at night, And that's something that I don't think a lot of people 669 00:52:58.760 --> 00:53:04.400 even have experience in that all that changes you. I think the interaction and 670 00:53:02.400 --> 00:53:09.440 the willingness to push yourself into altered states of mind are also part of this 671 00:53:10.239 --> 00:53:15.440 pursuit. And being in these places alone, whether people realize it or not, 672 00:53:15.639 --> 00:53:21.159 is still an altered state of mind that I don't think you can achieve 673 00:53:21.159 --> 00:53:25.039 when you're around other people. So it's an interesting experiment for your listeners to 674 00:53:25.199 --> 00:53:30.599 consider if they have the safe opportunity to do so. Well. That's something 675 00:53:30.639 --> 00:53:34.559 that me and Bob talk about a lot, and I'll let him explain that 676 00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.519 here in just a second. But I grew up born and raised in the 677 00:53:37.559 --> 00:53:40.679 Appalachia Mountains, so I'm from western North Carolina. I know exactly what you're 678 00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:45.800 talking about back with fun. Oh yeah, trust me, we'll talk about 679 00:53:45.840 --> 00:53:51.320 that here soon. I know you had some weird experiences on Brown Mountain. 680 00:53:51.559 --> 00:53:54.199 My family's from Black Mountains, so pretty close by. But oh wow, 681 00:53:54.360 --> 00:54:00.360 how many colors do they come in? Kind out? For real? Literally 682 00:54:00.400 --> 00:54:01.880 looked at a color wheel and was like, Okay, this is what that's 683 00:54:01.880 --> 00:54:07.079 called. This is what that But yeah, no, we talk about that 684 00:54:07.119 --> 00:54:10.280 a lot on the podcast. And it's so weird to have this conversation with 685 00:54:10.320 --> 00:54:16.039 you because it's like a speed run of like a combination of knowledge that we've 686 00:54:16.079 --> 00:54:21.920 shared with our audience and the experiences that they've been willing to share with us 687 00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:23.400 as well. But what were you going to say? Well, no, 688 00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:27.960 I was just gonna say I absolutely love this because literally the other day, 689 00:54:28.239 --> 00:54:30.760 so Brittany comes up from Missouri, I went and bought some computer parts in 690 00:54:30.800 --> 00:54:35.320 Waverley, Ohio, which is an hour or so outside of Point Pleasant, 691 00:54:35.599 --> 00:54:39.800 relatively close to Chilicothee, Ohio, which has its own high strangeness and weirdness 692 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:44.679 and missing person's cases, the whole nine. Yeah, I'm literally driving through 693 00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:46.760 Waverley. I text Brittany. I'm like, hey, there's something up with 694 00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:51.440 this town. Couldn't put my finger on it, just something weird. I'm 695 00:54:51.440 --> 00:54:53.119 like, it reminds me of and I couldn't think of, like Summerset. 696 00:54:53.239 --> 00:54:58.400 That's that's what this reminds you of a summerset. So I text her like, 697 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:00.000 I'm on my way back. She's I'm gonna take a quick nap. 698 00:55:00.119 --> 00:55:01.320 So I'm like, well, she's napping, I'm gonna go into the state 699 00:55:01.360 --> 00:55:05.440 park. That's literally on the drive, because that's what you do, you 700 00:55:05.480 --> 00:55:07.039 know, when your fiance goes to sleep. You're just like, I'm not 701 00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.519 even gonna let her know I'm doing this. It's fine. Yeah, so 702 00:55:09.719 --> 00:55:14.199 normal Tuesday. Well, so I pull into the state park and I see 703 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:16.280 this, uh, this old fire watch tower, and I'm kind of looking 704 00:55:16.320 --> 00:55:19.360 around. I'm like, oh, there's no sign to say I can't go 705 00:55:19.480 --> 00:55:22.079 up to the top of this watch tower. So I climbed to the top 706 00:55:22.159 --> 00:55:24.199 take some fun pictures, and I'm kind of just there. I didn't know 707 00:55:24.239 --> 00:55:28.719 why I was there. It just kind of felt like there was something to 708 00:55:28.920 --> 00:55:31.760 this area. I'm sure you you know that feeling all too well. So 709 00:55:32.840 --> 00:55:37.039 I drive through it a little bit and I ended up telling Brittany like, 710 00:55:37.079 --> 00:55:37.679 hey, you know we did come back out here at night. Well, 711 00:55:37.679 --> 00:55:40.440 it turns out we had been to this town before, it had this conversation 712 00:55:40.679 --> 00:55:45.599 years prior, and it just I completely forgot for you know, one reason 713 00:55:45.679 --> 00:55:49.480 or another. We did a little Estes method session that was all well and 714 00:55:49.519 --> 00:55:52.119 good. We saw what we thought was some weird stuff out in the woods. 715 00:55:52.119 --> 00:55:57.320 But that to me speaks to when you have that call of this, 716 00:55:58.920 --> 00:56:00.760 I have an opportunity to rive through during the daytime. It's safety. Go 717 00:56:00.800 --> 00:56:04.679 in the state park. I wouldn't recommend, you know, climbing fire watch 718 00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:08.960 towers. That's probably you definitely thought you were gonna get rested. You told 719 00:56:09.039 --> 00:56:13.039 me after, You're like, I know, I know someone should have come 720 00:56:13.119 --> 00:56:15.119 out there and told me to stop. But I stopped every three to four 721 00:56:15.199 --> 00:56:17.880 floors, like, look around, like, no one's gonna come get me. 722 00:56:17.960 --> 00:56:22.079 You guys are gonna let me do this, Okay, That's that's fine. 723 00:56:22.519 --> 00:56:25.880 You're like, I was kind of hoping you would. The higher I 724 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:30.039 got, the more I'm like, how bad do I want this? That's 725 00:56:30.079 --> 00:56:34.119 funny as you can see like the boards like falling through and have to walk 726 00:56:34.159 --> 00:56:36.960 on the railing. Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was a but 727 00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:39.280 it was a good time. It was a humbling experience. Yeah, but 728 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:43.039 to kind of shift gears. But I want to I want to talk Kentucky. 729 00:56:43.880 --> 00:56:47.239 My heart's in Kentucky. Man. Yeah, I've grown from someone who 730 00:56:47.280 --> 00:56:52.599 only ever drove the I seventy five corridor straight down to Knoxville. I had 731 00:56:52.639 --> 00:56:57.400 no idea Eastern Kentucky existed in the way that it does until I was twenty 732 00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:59.559 seven twenty. I mean, it's kind of funny. I make the joke 733 00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:04.960 that I, uh discovered myself in spirituality at twenty nine through high strangeness and 734 00:57:05.119 --> 00:57:08.480 uh we we we made our our. I kind of call it the paranormal, 735 00:57:08.519 --> 00:57:10.880 the cryptid pilgrimage. I kind of tweeted this at Greg and it was 736 00:57:10.880 --> 00:57:14.320 one of the first times he like interacted. I fanggirled out. I'm like, 737 00:57:14.360 --> 00:57:17.079 holy, holy hell, this guy he knows I exist. But we 738 00:57:17.119 --> 00:57:21.679 went to Point Pleasant and then uh went down to Hell You're and we kind 739 00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:25.519 of before that, we went to Marietta Ohio and uh, yeah, I'm 740 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:30.280 just gonna say Prestonsburg, but that's outside what is it Parkersburg than you But 741 00:57:30.360 --> 00:57:35.840 yeah, we went to Point Pleasant Parkersburg, then down to Hellyer. Yeah, 742 00:57:35.840 --> 00:57:37.800 so we kind of made the drive. But a few months later we 743 00:57:37.840 --> 00:57:42.039 made a trip down to Summrset with our friend Tyler Terry. Funnily enough, 744 00:57:43.159 --> 00:57:47.280 that funny and the energy of you. He's very, uh, very skeptical. 745 00:57:47.440 --> 00:57:51.039 But we uh, we were kind of looking at the map of like 746 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:54.119 places we wanted to visit and and funnily enough, we went to go and 747 00:57:54.199 --> 00:57:58.199 meet Kyle Kadell because we're gonna do an interview with him, and uh, 748 00:57:58.280 --> 00:58:00.000 we got sidetracked there because we found a house. I said, the call 749 00:58:00.039 --> 00:58:04.440 the FBI. This town's a cult. So of course I like break into 750 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:07.760 the house. And the broad days did break That's a whole conversation. The 751 00:58:07.800 --> 00:58:15.559 door walked in. Oh my god. So the the first night we drive 752 00:58:15.599 --> 00:58:19.679 out there, we find we you know, we happened to find a cave. 753 00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:21.280 And I'm not going to say the rogues. I don'tant a lot of 754 00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.440 people to go out there because it's not exactly the most safe area. And 755 00:58:23.679 --> 00:58:29.360 uh, we saw these weird lights dancing across the road and then Tyler, 756 00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:30.880 Terry and I we were obsessed over this cave. We didn't care about the 757 00:58:30.960 --> 00:58:34.719 lights in front of us. Brittany's la we can talk about it. It's 758 00:58:34.760 --> 00:58:38.119 blocked off. Now, Okay, Well the cave that's on Strawberry Road outside 759 00:58:38.119 --> 00:58:42.280 of Somerset, Ah, Yes, yes, yes, So I want to 760 00:58:42.280 --> 00:58:45.480 know have you gone further back there? Because we made the decision that night 761 00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:47.679 we went to the back of the cave and uh, we felt the same 762 00:58:47.760 --> 00:58:51.960 rumbling. We heard what we thought were voices coming from deeper in the cave. 763 00:58:52.000 --> 00:58:55.000 We did find out through uh Jason Rudder, who's a cave expert for 764 00:58:55.079 --> 00:58:59.639 the state of Kentucky, that there is several bits of water that run through 765 00:58:59.639 --> 00:59:04.519 that cave systems. That's that could explain the whispering voices that you might hear. 766 00:59:04.559 --> 00:59:07.599 But the rumbling is something true. But the rumbling was something that we 767 00:59:07.639 --> 00:59:12.480 both did experience. Have you gone further? Because I know, once you 768 00:59:12.519 --> 00:59:15.880 use the back of that cave, there's a pretty steep inclined you can climb 769 00:59:15.920 --> 00:59:20.000 up and over, But I don't know what's much further beyond. There's something 770 00:59:20.119 --> 00:59:22.199 Yeah, well, i'll tell you, I'll tell you this much, and 771 00:59:22.239 --> 00:59:27.360 this is something that is absolutely true, but not something that would be readily 772 00:59:28.079 --> 00:59:37.360 out there in terms of information. Since that fairly as of we'll say this 773 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:44.760 this year, this past year, I've come to confirm what I've already speculated 774 00:59:44.880 --> 00:59:49.639 about that cave and the ones that are near it. But that cave actually 775 00:59:49.679 --> 00:59:58.000 connects to multiple that are undiscovered that no one's ever been inside of. So 776 00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:05.800 that area not only has that cave in particular, not only has creature sighting 777 01:00:06.079 --> 01:00:10.480 reports attached to it. In fact, there's other entrances that get into that 778 01:00:10.559 --> 01:00:15.320 cave. But since that time, with the use of some modern technology, 779 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:22.360 it's been confirmed that there are other caves that go even further than what is 780 01:00:22.400 --> 01:00:27.760 accessible at least at this moment in time physically, that go way way into 781 01:00:27.840 --> 01:00:32.440 that into the earth there. So there's a whole string of a hidden network 782 01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:37.840 that that connects to that people haven't been inside of yet. I'm sorry, 783 01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:40.440 I have to hop in because I love that because we there's another there's another 784 01:00:40.440 --> 01:00:43.840 cave, which this one's not blocked off, so we're not going to say 785 01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:46.760 the location, but it's the one that's underneath the bridge. That one, 786 01:00:46.800 --> 01:00:51.159 we went about as far into it as we thought you could go. Tyler 787 01:00:51.199 --> 01:00:53.159 went all the way back to the to the lower shelving in the back. 788 01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:57.480 Yeah, only to find out within the last month or so that that one 789 01:00:57.519 --> 01:01:00.400 also is interconnected with other cave systems that but a collapse, but part of 790 01:01:00.400 --> 01:01:06.559 it collapse at one point. So interesting. Yeah, and that's something interesting. 791 01:01:06.599 --> 01:01:09.840 That's something that you know unless people are like say, studying it or 792 01:01:09.880 --> 01:01:15.639 maybe even going into them, and not a whole lot of people are aware. 793 01:01:15.880 --> 01:01:17.800 But when it comes to caves, there's there's a lot. It can 794 01:01:17.840 --> 01:01:21.599 be common and it's interesting. It kind of adds to that, uh, 795 01:01:22.440 --> 01:01:28.360 that mystique and that mystery where there are a lot of caves that are confirmed 796 01:01:28.400 --> 01:01:32.840 to connect, uh, particularly a lot of the ones in Somerset in general 797 01:01:34.079 --> 01:01:37.599 connect to each other in different ways. And the way they know that not 798 01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:43.559 physically or when I say not physically is like you could they don't. They 799 01:01:43.599 --> 01:01:45.880 don't. Yeah, they don't connect in a way that like people necessarily know 800 01:01:46.119 --> 01:01:51.000 or like can physically get into. But there's a lot of you know, 801 01:01:51.079 --> 01:01:58.440 experiments, people doing their studying these natural areas and hydrology where they'll inject or 802 01:01:58.559 --> 01:02:02.800 poor die uh a really potent die into the waterways to see where it flows 803 01:02:04.239 --> 01:02:08.320 uhha, and the look for resurgence areas. So like, there has already 804 01:02:08.400 --> 01:02:15.039 been studies conducted in those areas that show a lot of those caves connect because 805 01:02:15.039 --> 01:02:17.840 they've done the die tracing, so you know, die tracing is something cavers 806 01:02:17.960 --> 01:02:23.000 do themselves even from time to time to see if there's possible openings. So 807 01:02:23.039 --> 01:02:29.599 they know a lot of those areas connect. But it also furthers to illustrate, 808 01:02:29.840 --> 01:02:31.159 you know, the mystery behind them too, where it's like, yeah, 809 01:02:31.199 --> 01:02:37.320 they connect, but there's always openings or the potential for chambers and such 810 01:02:37.440 --> 01:02:40.960 that people have never been inside of that. Who knows what they contain, 811 01:02:42.119 --> 01:02:47.320 you know. And and that cave that's under the bridge has a lot of 812 01:02:47.320 --> 01:02:52.119 weird holes in the wall that are like like you can put like an RC 813 01:02:52.320 --> 01:02:54.840 car through them. And it actually really freaked me out when we first went 814 01:02:54.880 --> 01:02:58.679 there, because I was like, if something's gonna crawl that cave, it's 815 01:02:58.679 --> 01:03:02.639 gonna be a giant spider. No one, my luck siders and we don't 816 01:03:02.639 --> 01:03:07.519 talk about that, but I've actually crawled up into the ceiling inside that cave 817 01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.199 through one of those whole did you really? I know you didn't know, 818 01:03:12.079 --> 01:03:15.239 Yeah, and it led funny enough, it led to one of the earlier 819 01:03:15.360 --> 01:03:17.960 corridors that you're in, where like if you were to look way up into 820 01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:21.079 the ceiling, you would have been able to see me up there. So 821 01:03:21.199 --> 01:03:23.679 like it's there are ways around, you know, there's a lot of different 822 01:03:23.679 --> 01:03:29.760 openings, you know in caves like that, a lot of different But that's 823 01:03:29.840 --> 01:03:35.000 absolutely so. I guess since we're kind of we kind of have arrived here, 824 01:03:35.480 --> 01:03:37.440 what were your thoughts as as season one kind of changed season two? 825 01:03:37.480 --> 01:03:40.480 So there was one thing in particular that drove me crazy about hell here? 826 01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:45.760 And I've been meaning to waiting to ask you this one question. That big 827 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.400 book that you referenced of newspaper clippings of cave sidings, UFOs and stuff. 828 01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:53.159 I think you got it at the Mothman Festival. Where the hell is that 829 01:03:53.239 --> 01:03:58.480 book? And why why did no one ever bring it up again? Well, 830 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:00.920 I don't know, it just never really became I guess it just never 831 01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:03.920 really became relevant again. But yeah, what's weird about that? It was 832 01:04:03.960 --> 01:04:12.199 a packet of reports and it's just really weird that kind of synchronicities that are 833 01:04:12.239 --> 01:04:15.039 revolved around that, because it's, uh, you know, sometimes I wonder 834 01:04:15.079 --> 01:04:18.519 if the whole point was just to have that phone call coming to like further 835 01:04:19.800 --> 01:04:25.159 some kind of strange moment, But yeah, it was kind of It was 836 01:04:25.159 --> 01:04:28.559 such an odd thing. So I don't know how many years back that would 837 01:04:28.559 --> 01:04:30.519 have been. I can't. I don't know if that would have been twenty 838 01:04:30.880 --> 01:04:35.880 It's either it's probably like twenty seventeen Mothman Festival, twenty seventeen probably or twenty 839 01:04:35.920 --> 01:04:40.559 eighteen. I'd have to look at the date when they filmed. But yeah, 840 01:04:40.599 --> 01:04:44.800 I was at the Mothman Festival and I happened to run into this gentleman. 841 01:04:46.119 --> 01:04:50.000 I overheard him talking funny enough, which makes us kind of even weirder. 842 01:04:50.039 --> 01:04:53.480 I was on the street and like anyone who's ever been to the Mothman 843 01:04:53.599 --> 01:04:59.639 Festival knows, it's just a madhouse's hundreds of people everywhere, even sometimes up 844 01:04:59.679 --> 01:05:01.000 until it's late, you know, and there's you know, and it gets 845 01:05:01.079 --> 01:05:05.800 dark out, and it was dark out, and there's this guy just talking 846 01:05:05.840 --> 01:05:10.719 to a group of people on the street about like how he had weird experiences 847 01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:15.599 growing up in this sort of area. And funny enough, he originally some 848 01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:18.320 of these experiences happened to when he lived were around where I am right now, 849 01:05:18.360 --> 01:05:24.480 which is interesting. And I overheard him talk about how when he was 850 01:05:24.559 --> 01:05:30.440 young, he noticed the pattern that there would always be strange things involving caverns 851 01:05:31.719 --> 01:05:35.639 where his experiences occurred. And he talked about how when he was a kid, 852 01:05:35.679 --> 01:05:39.719 he went inside of a cave that was at the edge of his property 853 01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:44.400 and he found pieces of a deer that were ripped a part, but they 854 01:05:44.400 --> 01:05:50.199 were laid out in like yeah, like the arms and legs, they were 855 01:05:50.199 --> 01:05:55.840 all like placed in a line. Yeah, Like very strange. And he 856 01:05:55.880 --> 01:05:59.639 talked about how he'd find like human like footprints in the cave, like bear 857 01:06:00.119 --> 01:06:05.000 footprints, so really weird stuff. And he so like I ended up walking 858 01:06:05.079 --> 01:06:08.800 up to him, like I'm curious about this, you know, and I 859 01:06:08.840 --> 01:06:11.719 got to talking with him, and it was just so strange. This guy 860 01:06:11.800 --> 01:06:16.679 was older too. He was a truck driver at least that's what he used 861 01:06:16.679 --> 01:06:20.400 to do for a living. And he talked about how since he was a 862 01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:27.159 kid, because of his own experiences, that's what got him onto thinking like 863 01:06:27.280 --> 01:06:30.639 maybe these things come out of caves. And he said since that time, 864 01:06:30.960 --> 01:06:35.079 Like as he grew up, he would collect odd reports that he heard about 865 01:06:35.239 --> 01:06:41.159 that would revolve around mine's or caves, mine's caves or quarries. So this 866 01:06:41.320 --> 01:06:45.719 packet of reports, it wasn't a book, but it was like snippets from 867 01:06:45.840 --> 01:06:53.000 multiple books and like just random sources where whenever he would read some kind of 868 01:06:53.039 --> 01:06:57.239 paranormal book and it mentioned how this thing happened in a quarry or happened in 869 01:06:57.239 --> 01:07:00.119 your cave or a mind, he would take it out and add it to 870 01:07:00.199 --> 01:07:04.119 the packet. And this was all just a stranger that I just happened over 871 01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:06.559 here on the street. And I'm like, I'm like wow, I'm like 872 01:07:06.599 --> 01:07:10.719 this is really interesting. I'm like, if you don't mind, I go, 873 01:07:11.039 --> 01:07:14.039 is there a way to get like a copy of this? And he's 874 01:07:14.079 --> 01:07:15.599 like yeah, sure, He's like give me your you know, info, 875 01:07:15.639 --> 01:07:20.360 And I got his number, and you know, after I got his info, 876 01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:23.719 you know, I didn't know if anything would come of it, and 877 01:07:23.840 --> 01:07:27.559 like, you know, after I left the Mothman Festival, it was like, 878 01:07:28.679 --> 01:07:30.039 I don't know, a week or two I want to say, like 879 01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:34.320 I probably say in the dock when it happened, but uh, it was 880 01:07:34.360 --> 01:07:39.639 weird. I pulled up. I pulled up to my local gym, and 881 01:07:39.679 --> 01:07:42.480 I was just kind of sitting there in my car, and this weird thought 882 01:07:42.519 --> 01:07:45.719 popped in my head where I'm like, I wonder what that guy's up to. 883 01:07:45.920 --> 01:07:49.280 I should send him a message, or I should call him just to 884 01:07:49.360 --> 01:07:53.039 like get on it and stay on it. Otherwise, Like I had low 885 01:07:53.079 --> 01:07:57.519 expectations for ever getting this thing anyway. So I called the guy and he 886 01:07:57.920 --> 01:08:00.159 picked up right away, and he's like, wow. He's like, it's 887 01:08:00.239 --> 01:08:03.880 so strange that you called me just now. He's like, as your call 888 01:08:03.960 --> 01:08:09.039 came in, he goes, I was literally texting you when you called me. 889 01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:12.320 And I'm like, well, that's weird, and he's like yeah, 890 01:08:12.320 --> 01:08:14.840 he's like I was literally just texting you to tell you that I sent it 891 01:08:14.880 --> 01:08:20.640 out. So it was like because of that incident, I ended up I 892 01:08:20.720 --> 01:08:25.199 ended up calling the crew that just happened to be, you know, filming, 893 01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:28.640 you know, Season one, which that whole thing, Like I don't 894 01:08:28.640 --> 01:08:31.119 know how many people are aware of this, but like part of the reason 895 01:08:31.159 --> 01:08:34.840 why I'm not more, you know, you don't really see a whole lot 896 01:08:34.840 --> 01:08:39.039 of me in season one is like Season one wasn't even expected to happen. 897 01:08:39.119 --> 01:08:42.840 You know, like I knew of the new Kirksen and we were on friendly 898 01:08:42.960 --> 01:08:45.279 terms then, but I was still you know, all getting to know everyone 899 01:08:45.479 --> 01:08:50.840 at that point, and when that project first started. I think from there 900 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:54.079 end, it was just kind of like, well, let's just like roll 901 01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:57.000 out there and kind of do recon just get a feel of it. But 902 01:08:57.159 --> 01:09:00.640 like, so they knew I was interested in this stuff, and they knew 903 01:09:00.680 --> 01:09:05.039 I had an interest in this for like years, but at the time, 904 01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:08.399 they didn't think it was going to be any kind of big trip or a 905 01:09:08.399 --> 01:09:10.159 big deal. So it's like, oh, hey, I don't worry about 906 01:09:10.159 --> 01:09:12.600 it, like we're gonna check it out. But that trip that they were 907 01:09:12.600 --> 01:09:16.600 on ended up becoming like all a season one. So the fact that this 908 01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:23.239 kind of weird thing happened in this parking lot and that ended up having like 909 01:09:23.279 --> 01:09:30.159 a strange significance to this kind of weird est method session they were doing on 910 01:09:30.199 --> 01:09:33.119 that porch. You know, it is curious. That's always how it happens, 911 01:09:33.159 --> 01:09:35.640 isn't it. It's not going to be a big deal. We're just 912 01:09:35.680 --> 01:09:40.239 gonna go take a look. Nope. Right, the next three years of 913 01:09:40.279 --> 01:09:45.239 your life is going to be dedicated to Kentucky. Watch it for sure, 914 01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:48.479 for sure. But yeah, so that's kind of you know, what's up 915 01:09:48.520 --> 01:09:51.159 with that packet. But you know that packet, it's not that it has 916 01:09:51.199 --> 01:09:57.800 like any groundbreaking information in it. You know, it's interesting that it exists 917 01:09:58.039 --> 01:10:02.800 for what it's worth and how it came to be, but there's nothing as 918 01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:12.000 of yet that's like jumped out, you know, in that accumulation of snippets 919 01:10:12.079 --> 01:10:15.159 that you know, is any kind of groundbreaking thing. So to answer your 920 01:10:15.279 --> 01:10:19.840 question, it's just like there wasn't really anything in it that pertained to the 921 01:10:19.840 --> 01:10:24.119 case. You know, there wasn't like it didn't it didn't offer anything that 922 01:10:24.239 --> 01:10:28.159 was worth having, like a word blurb on you know that made the cut. 923 01:10:28.199 --> 01:10:30.680 But it's you know, that's one of those things though that from the 924 01:10:30.720 --> 01:10:35.119 outside, I think it's hard, you know, for some people to understand 925 01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:40.079 when they watch a documentary though, it's like you're only really seeing snippets of 926 01:10:40.159 --> 01:10:45.000 like a multitude of conversations that you don't see, you know what I mean, 927 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.520 Like like there's much more that happens off screen than what happens on screens. 928 01:10:48.600 --> 01:10:53.159 Yeah, we did a documentary last year, same deal. We were 929 01:10:53.159 --> 01:10:57.000 there for fourteen hours and we condensed that into an hour long, you know, 930 01:10:57.279 --> 01:11:00.399 doc piece. So yeah, that's the something nobody gets to see. 931 01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:03.319 Now, this is a question that's been uh, it's been burning for a 932 01:11:03.399 --> 01:11:08.079 while for me. So when when season two kind of started popping off the 933 01:11:08.119 --> 01:11:12.479 way that it did, I have never resonated with an on screen character more 934 01:11:12.520 --> 01:11:14.880 than I did with you in that moment where you're like, no, let's 935 01:11:14.920 --> 01:11:19.680 go right now, because because that's me. It's it's it's similar like when 936 01:11:19.680 --> 01:11:24.119 we went to Waverley here recently. It got in my brain and it lived 937 01:11:24.119 --> 01:11:30.119 there and it Yeah, we had Andy Colevin. We were having a conversation 938 01:11:30.159 --> 01:11:30.800 with me. He's like, yeah, I know where in Andrew Cold's house 939 01:11:30.880 --> 01:11:33.520 is. I'm like, yeah, send me the deats and he does. 940 01:11:34.399 --> 01:11:38.960 Six hours later, we're in rural West Virginia. No, that was like 941 01:11:39.000 --> 01:11:43.399 record time for us. That was like three hours. Yeah, because yeah, 942 01:11:43.399 --> 01:11:45.840 because my fear was like, someone's gonna get there, spook the locals, 943 01:11:45.880 --> 01:11:46.720 it's gonna be a problem. I just want to see I want to 944 01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:49.720 see this. Does it feel similar to some of the other weird places we've 945 01:11:49.760 --> 01:11:53.960 been so Andy Covin sends us like, hey, this is where it is 946 01:11:54.199 --> 01:11:59.039 roughly. Actually, here's the GPS coordinates. So we're on our way and 947 01:11:59.119 --> 01:12:01.600 got to experience. So I felt I knew exactly how you felt. And 948 01:12:01.600 --> 01:12:05.520 you're like, no, let's let's freaking go. I go. There's you 949 01:12:05.600 --> 01:12:11.560 know, nothing bad is gonna happen because you do kind of you remind me 950 01:12:11.560 --> 01:12:14.720 of me in that way where it's like, in that moment, the draw 951 01:12:14.800 --> 01:12:18.439 in the experience is so severe it nothing else seems to matter in that moment. 952 01:12:18.479 --> 01:12:20.479 Now granted, but like we just talked about, you don't need to 953 01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:23.479 see a lot of the off screen stuff. But the way that it was 954 01:12:23.760 --> 01:12:26.880 poor trade, which was you know you wanted to go write that second? 955 01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:30.079 What was that? Like? Sure? I mean, and then that goes 956 01:12:30.119 --> 01:12:32.000 back to that thing, you know what I mentioned. It's like, you 957 01:12:32.000 --> 01:12:35.560 know, obviously I do get excited, you know sometimes and it's yeah, 958 01:12:35.720 --> 01:12:39.640 it's just that craving where it's like, you know, these things are already 959 01:12:39.800 --> 01:12:44.359 so rare, and they have something where it's like why would you wait? 960 01:12:44.520 --> 01:12:47.640 Like this it's telling you to go right, you know, And I still 961 01:12:47.640 --> 01:12:53.119 have elements of that, you know, sometimes I think you know, maybe 962 01:12:53.159 --> 01:12:56.279 there's certain things I shouldn't have been waited for. But you know, but 963 01:12:56.319 --> 01:12:59.760 then other times, though, there's always a duality to that, where, 964 01:13:00.199 --> 01:13:05.279 at least at this point in time, after gaining more experience and more knowledge 965 01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:11.960 in these matters, I also think that there is something strange with the intention 966 01:13:12.119 --> 01:13:16.199 of like there's some things that are time released and they end up do happening 967 01:13:16.279 --> 01:13:21.399 if you do. It's very contradictory. There's certain things that happen I think 968 01:13:21.439 --> 01:13:25.760 down the road that are meant to happen when you least expect them, and 969 01:13:25.800 --> 01:13:30.800 it's not maybe the best time to go right away, because it's like the 970 01:13:30.800 --> 01:13:34.119 phenomenon works in a very strange, non linear way, or at least not 971 01:13:34.199 --> 01:13:39.640 in the way that is immediate as a straight line in the way that we 972 01:13:40.399 --> 01:13:42.640 tend to think. But yeah, you know, like in those moments though, 973 01:13:42.800 --> 01:13:45.520 having all this so fresh, you know, it's like it's such a 974 01:13:45.720 --> 01:13:48.720 you know, it's already such an exhilarating topic. It's like, why wouldn't 975 01:13:48.760 --> 01:13:53.520 I be obsessed with getting to see it? You know, like I wanted 976 01:13:53.560 --> 01:13:58.880 that experience so bad, you know, all those like imaginative thoughts, you 977 01:13:58.920 --> 01:14:00.239 know, enterugh, your head where it's like, am I gonna you know, 978 01:14:00.279 --> 01:14:03.079 are we gonna get there? Are we going to see like creatures crawling 979 01:14:03.119 --> 01:14:06.000 around inside of a cave? You know? You know, it's you get 980 01:14:06.039 --> 01:14:11.039 you get into a really funny you know mindset, you know where. But 981 01:14:11.159 --> 01:14:14.960 you know, obviously, like I said, now, it's like elements or 982 01:14:15.000 --> 01:14:17.720 that of that are real back because I understand it's not so you know, 983 01:14:17.880 --> 01:14:23.279 cut and dry, but it's uh, you know, you still get those 984 01:14:23.319 --> 01:14:27.720 spikes of excitement, and it's like it's very hard to ignore. You know, 985 01:14:27.800 --> 01:14:30.199 it's like a you know, it's beyond I don't want to use I 986 01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:33.359 don't think the word discomfort is necessarily the right word, but it is that 987 01:14:33.359 --> 01:14:39.960 that itching, that it's an itch that needs to be scratched and and and 988 01:14:40.039 --> 01:14:43.560 it makes you insane. Maybe you have to you want to see it. 989 01:14:44.439 --> 01:14:47.680 But you know, maybe that's just one of the hurdles of that practice of 990 01:14:47.800 --> 01:14:55.359 patience. Perhaps though maybe maybe it is gaining the ability to not give into 991 01:14:55.439 --> 01:14:59.640 excitement, even though I think that's part of it. But in that moment, 992 01:14:59.800 --> 01:15:03.000 you know, however many years ago that's been now you know, that 993 01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:08.520 was certainly the case in that moment, you know. But I think that's 994 01:15:08.560 --> 01:15:13.119 what's interesting about these projects too, or at least just having something out there 995 01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:16.359 that you know, people I don't know are watching. You know. It's 996 01:15:16.399 --> 01:15:23.319 almost there's a lot of things that I think are hard for me to watch. 997 01:15:23.359 --> 01:15:26.319 And that even goes through just mundane things that I even just think or 998 01:15:26.359 --> 01:15:29.800 write or whatever. Is like, you know, I'm always changing, I'm 999 01:15:29.800 --> 01:15:34.359 always growing. So it's like every every version of me that people think is 1000 01:15:34.399 --> 01:15:36.520 out there is not the version of me I am. Now. You know, 1001 01:15:36.720 --> 01:15:41.920 there's a lot that I've learned and I've grown from and and changed with, 1002 01:15:42.159 --> 01:15:45.319 you know, as these as these years have rolled on, you know, 1003 01:15:45.359 --> 01:15:50.359 and I'm certain that will continue. But yeah, in those moments, 1004 01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:54.920 it was like we gotta go, You got to go right now, all 1005 01:15:55.000 --> 01:15:57.960 right, Tyler. So as we're getting towards the end of our time here, 1006 01:15:58.359 --> 01:16:00.880 this question is on everyone's mind. Will there be a hell? You're 1007 01:16:00.960 --> 01:16:03.880 three? And I know that you're not in control of your time frame, 1008 01:16:05.279 --> 01:16:08.840 but will there be a hell? You're three? So people, because I 1009 01:16:08.920 --> 01:16:11.119 the amount of people who ask me, Bob, I know that you kind 1010 01:16:11.119 --> 01:16:13.239 of know Alan, can you ask him if he can, ask Greg if 1011 01:16:13.239 --> 01:16:17.119 he can ask Carl, are we gonna have Hell You're Three? Well, 1012 01:16:17.760 --> 01:16:23.960 what I can say is that there are already things filmed for what probably would 1013 01:16:23.960 --> 01:16:29.840 be in a Hell You're Three, So you know, I'm confident at some 1014 01:16:30.039 --> 01:16:34.239 point there likely will be. But as of when, is still the mystery 1015 01:16:34.399 --> 01:16:39.680 that is going to be unsatisfactory for all the curious minds until it, uh, 1016 01:16:40.520 --> 01:16:45.600 until it unfolds. But you know, I don't think you know, 1017 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:48.319 when it comes to Hellier. It's a weird, tricky thing where everyone always 1018 01:16:48.359 --> 01:16:51.760 wants it, but it's one of those things where like the phenomena, it's 1019 01:16:51.760 --> 01:16:56.520 like we got to let the actual phenomena dictate that too, you know. 1020 01:16:56.560 --> 01:17:02.119 We there's certain strangeness that's you know, since you know, certain strange developments, 1021 01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:08.199 but it's just something. These things take time, you know, and 1022 01:17:08.840 --> 01:17:14.079 it's it's less about it's funny, you know, saying like oh, i's 1023 01:17:14.119 --> 01:17:16.880 ask Carl or ask Greg. It's like none of us are in control of 1024 01:17:17.039 --> 01:17:21.880 when there's gonna be a Hellier three. That's the thing in control of Hell 1025 01:17:21.920 --> 01:17:26.760 You're Three is the phenomena if it wants to knock and play the game again, 1026 01:17:27.800 --> 01:17:30.640 and that doesn't work when you want it to work, and it certainly 1027 01:17:30.640 --> 01:17:33.319 does not care about what the public wants in terms of something that they'll view 1028 01:17:33.359 --> 01:17:38.840 as a piece of entertainment. So it's you know, a matter of when 1029 01:17:39.159 --> 01:17:45.800 things present themselves, when something seemingly wants Hellier three to continue is kind of 1030 01:17:45.880 --> 01:17:50.520 what we're at the mercy at. But I'm confident that there will be, 1031 01:17:50.520 --> 01:17:55.279 because It's hell Here's not one of those things that ever ends, you know, 1032 01:17:55.319 --> 01:18:00.560 And I think to kind of go full circle, you know, with 1033 01:18:00.680 --> 01:18:05.640 all the things we talked about today, you know, it's hell Here's just 1034 01:18:05.720 --> 01:18:14.239 one fragment. It's a docuseries that looks at one fragment of a very large, 1035 01:18:14.399 --> 01:18:18.880 all encompassing phenomena, you know, and that phenomena presents itself in the 1036 01:18:18.960 --> 01:18:24.239 lives of many different people, in many different places, in many different ways. 1037 01:18:24.319 --> 01:18:28.760 And it's like, you know, people can look at Hellier as an 1038 01:18:28.800 --> 01:18:35.520 isolated thing for you know, some of these adventures or curiosities that we've gone 1039 01:18:35.520 --> 01:18:39.760 on, but at the end of the day, it's still a finite thing. 1040 01:18:39.960 --> 01:18:45.159 It's a small thing, and the act of just being someone who continues 1041 01:18:45.199 --> 01:18:49.159 to look into this by default is always going to make more of that come 1042 01:18:49.199 --> 01:18:51.079 out, you know, when it's meant to come out. You know, 1043 01:18:51.159 --> 01:18:58.800 I'm at a point like I don't necessarily view Hellier as you know, this 1044 01:18:58.880 --> 01:19:03.119 one project that just takes place in this one place. You know it has 1045 01:19:03.159 --> 01:19:08.520 it been so far, sure, But at the same time, you know, 1046 01:19:08.600 --> 01:19:12.399 it's it's just the phenomena itself, and when it comes out to play, 1047 01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:15.840 it comes out. You know that we're not we're not necessarily in charge 1048 01:19:15.840 --> 01:19:20.239 of that, which is why it's not it's not a scripted show that just 1049 01:19:20.279 --> 01:19:24.800 gets a bunch of seasons, you know, So it's you know, that's 1050 01:19:24.920 --> 01:19:29.079 I know it's not not necessarily a satisfactory answer, but it's an honest answer. 1051 01:19:29.960 --> 01:19:34.000 Well, you know, but that's been I'm certain that it will perfect. 1052 01:19:34.159 --> 01:19:36.239 Yeah. The only thing I wanted to add to that that the one 1053 01:19:36.239 --> 01:19:42.640 thing that's been very refreshing for me for this entire conversation is that how you're 1054 01:19:42.840 --> 01:19:45.680 as an idea, how you're as a project, or however you view it 1055 01:19:45.720 --> 01:19:50.560 has been just as transformative, if not more, for you and the group 1056 01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:55.960 has personally as it has been for all the people who have viewed it and 1057 01:19:56.000 --> 01:20:00.439 had life changing experiences from it. And I think that That's one thing a 1058 01:20:00.479 --> 01:20:02.159 lot of people don't take into the fact that if hell, you're truly is 1059 01:20:02.199 --> 01:20:06.800 an initiation as we have seen it in the past for us and our friends 1060 01:20:06.840 --> 01:20:13.560 and whoever else we talk with who who have experienced that, that it was 1061 01:20:13.720 --> 01:20:18.520 not only for the viewers benefit or experience, but also you guys as well, 1062 01:20:18.920 --> 01:20:24.880 and then it's been for you, you know, yeah, well one 1063 01:20:24.920 --> 01:20:27.960 hundred percent. And I think you know that's all part of that too, 1064 01:20:28.119 --> 01:20:31.239 is like, you know, this is just my personal take, but I'm 1065 01:20:31.279 --> 01:20:36.399 certain every individual person involved and not involved, you know, are still going 1066 01:20:36.520 --> 01:20:45.479 to experience their own personalized things, and a lot of times those things probably 1067 01:20:45.520 --> 01:20:51.159 should stay that way as personal. I don't think everything is supposed to be 1068 01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:55.960 filmed. I don't think everything is supposed to be talked about. I think 1069 01:20:56.000 --> 01:20:59.319 that there are certain things that, you know, when it feels right, 1070 01:20:59.720 --> 01:21:02.439 you know, that's what we'll try and put out there if it seems like 1071 01:21:02.520 --> 01:21:10.319 that's what this thing seemingly wants, you know, if we're even accurate in 1072 01:21:10.399 --> 01:21:15.399 that right. But it's you know, it is of course transformative in a 1073 01:21:15.439 --> 01:21:19.920 lot of different ways, but it's also a continuation of a transformation that's already 1074 01:21:19.920 --> 01:21:25.840 been occurring long before Hellier took place. And that's, you know, another 1075 01:21:25.880 --> 01:21:30.880 thing I want people to understand. And I'm not just saying this for myself. 1076 01:21:30.920 --> 01:21:35.239 I'm saying this for people who have maybe been inspired or found the topics 1077 01:21:35.239 --> 01:21:41.520 in hell You're interesting. Is like, don't let the themes and places in 1078 01:21:41.640 --> 01:21:47.279 Hellier be a be all or end all for you, And don't take everything 1079 01:21:47.279 --> 01:21:50.960 we say as gospel, because we're still just people too, trying to figure 1080 01:21:51.000 --> 01:21:57.319 stuff out. We're not infallible, clearly not. And one of the things 1081 01:21:57.359 --> 01:21:59.399 I want to add to that, you know, when it comes to like, 1082 01:21:59.479 --> 01:22:02.039 you know, a transformative experience, is that you know, I've had 1083 01:22:02.439 --> 01:22:05.800 things happen to me before Hellier, and I'm certain things will happen to me 1084 01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:11.960 long after Hellier has finished. Because Hellier is also not the be all end 1085 01:22:11.960 --> 01:22:15.279 all for me either. I have a whole history most people don't know about 1086 01:22:15.600 --> 01:22:21.880 of strangeness that predates Hellier by many years. Hellier wasn't my beginning. Hellier 1087 01:22:23.159 --> 01:22:28.199 is something that's happening along the way, and I hope that there's more people 1088 01:22:28.199 --> 01:22:33.079 who understand that in the long run too. Where Like you don't necessarily need 1089 01:22:33.119 --> 01:22:38.520 to go to all the same places. You don't need to explore all the 1090 01:22:38.560 --> 01:22:43.239 same themes or people, because like I said earlier, that's still the focus 1091 01:22:43.279 --> 01:22:45.600 that's going to make you lose the stuff that's happening to you. The actual 1092 01:22:45.640 --> 01:22:50.520 stuff that's happening to you hellier is a thing that will always happen because the 1093 01:22:50.520 --> 01:22:57.720 phenomena exists. And as such, that phenomena exists all around the globe, 1094 01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:01.479 and it exists in your own backyard. Don't let someone else's backyard make you 1095 01:23:01.520 --> 01:23:08.760 ignore what's happening right under your own nose. So it's a good thing that 1096 01:23:08.840 --> 01:23:13.159 this is transformative. But at the same time, I also hope that people 1097 01:23:13.239 --> 01:23:18.000 see that it's only just giving you ideas to inspire, at the very least, 1098 01:23:18.079 --> 01:23:24.319 show that the things you've been told about the nature of this phenomenon might 1099 01:23:24.359 --> 01:23:29.640 be a little more complex, it might be a little more mysterious than maybe 1100 01:23:29.840 --> 01:23:34.800 certain pop culture ideas have propagated thus far. And to me, that's all 1101 01:23:34.920 --> 01:23:40.000 I want of that project. You know, if that's all it does, 1102 01:23:41.199 --> 01:23:47.840 then it was no less an initiation in my opinion. But initiations, as 1103 01:23:47.880 --> 01:23:54.239 it implies, is only just the start. Don't let Hellier and all those 1104 01:23:54.279 --> 01:24:00.399 places be the end, because if that's what you're encompassing the phenomena into, 1105 01:24:00.880 --> 01:24:06.720 there is no beginning for you. You're still stuck. This stuff is everywhere 1106 01:24:08.159 --> 01:24:14.600 and it's accessible to all. This stuff is a part, in my opinion, 1107 01:24:14.840 --> 01:24:16.720 it's part of the human condition, and as such, it will always 1108 01:24:17.359 --> 01:24:24.520 remain It's it's not just in one place, and it's not just surrounding one 1109 01:24:24.560 --> 01:24:27.640 group of people or one kind of person. You know, there's a lot 1110 01:24:27.640 --> 01:24:31.600 of interesting stories out there, and there's a lot of interesting energies and people 1111 01:24:31.880 --> 01:24:38.279 to meet, and I'm sure there's there's a lot more wild experiences to come 1112 01:24:38.600 --> 01:24:42.720 that I can't even comprehend yet because they haven't happened yet, that might take 1113 01:24:42.800 --> 01:24:46.760 us to completely different places. You know. That's that's part of that, 1114 01:24:46.760 --> 01:24:53.199 that remaining open to things, you know, like, don't don't let the 1115 01:24:53.319 --> 01:24:57.760 places and people in hell Here be a closed circuit for you, I guess, 1116 01:24:57.880 --> 01:25:00.640 is what I'm trying to say. Tyler, I love that so much 1117 01:25:00.680 --> 01:25:05.640 because one of the biggest things that we have found is the importance of looking 1118 01:25:05.640 --> 01:25:10.479 in your own backyard. And Tyler Terry, the guy I mentioned earlier, 1119 01:25:10.840 --> 01:25:14.039 one of the biggest things that we looked at right away was we both both 1120 01:25:14.079 --> 01:25:17.319 grew up in a rural, small town Ohio, and we started reaching out 1121 01:25:17.359 --> 01:25:19.840 to people we went to high school with consistently saying like, Hey, did 1122 01:25:19.840 --> 01:25:26.239 you guys ever hear these stories about River Road growing up, because we all 1123 01:25:26.319 --> 01:25:30.079 kind of heard the same thing against small town Ohio about don't go out to 1124 01:25:30.159 --> 01:25:32.960 River Road. There's coultists in the woods that will grab you, there's sacrificing 1125 01:25:33.039 --> 01:25:36.439 children, there's a cave out there, there's this, there's that, There's 1126 01:25:36.479 --> 01:25:41.359 all these terrifying things occurring. Don't do that. And so one of the 1127 01:25:41.399 --> 01:25:44.880 biggest things for us was the importance of looking in your own backyard, like 1128 01:25:44.920 --> 01:25:47.399 it's phenomenal to go and meet people like Geraldine, to go to Point Pleasant, 1129 01:25:47.439 --> 01:25:51.479 to go to hell your meats. But it's another thing when you start 1130 01:25:51.520 --> 01:25:56.760 to notice the little bits of your own story that have been building up since 1131 01:25:56.800 --> 01:26:00.359 you were a child, and maybe you never paid any attention to it because 1132 01:26:00.359 --> 01:26:03.399 it didn't seem to fit in the the taps ghost hunter's realm that you grew 1133 01:26:03.479 --> 01:26:06.199 up in, you know, the Zach Baggins of the world. But then 1134 01:26:06.199 --> 01:26:11.640 when you get closer to the phenomenon. But as you get closer, you 1135 01:26:11.680 --> 01:26:15.479 do start to see like this stuff has been following you for a lot longer 1136 01:26:15.520 --> 01:26:19.319 than maybe you even understand, you've ever even considered, because you're so hyper 1137 01:26:19.319 --> 01:26:23.319 focused on what you think it should be, because someone else has told you 1138 01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:27.319 they're part of the story, and you never thought to sit down and discuss 1139 01:26:27.359 --> 01:26:30.800 your own part of the story. So sure, I guess my my last 1140 01:26:30.880 --> 01:26:33.079 question to you before we let you go, if someone was wanting they wanted 1141 01:26:33.119 --> 01:26:35.880 to get started on this, this path, this journey, apart from the 1142 01:26:35.920 --> 01:26:41.520 obvious go watch hell you're where, would you suggest someone to start that Maybe 1143 01:26:42.800 --> 01:26:45.680 they think this could be something that's that's that's there for them, but they're 1144 01:26:45.720 --> 01:26:54.079 not quite sure. You know, I think something that's really valuable is just 1145 01:26:54.199 --> 01:26:58.760 trying to source a lot of different information from a lot of different places, 1146 01:26:58.840 --> 01:27:03.720 like read read a boat, a lot of stuff that's not necessarily interesting right 1147 01:27:03.760 --> 01:27:08.000 away. And what I mean by that, and this is just another like 1148 01:27:08.079 --> 01:27:10.880 kind of overview statement on the phenomena, you know, like I know, 1149 01:27:11.760 --> 01:27:15.560 in the course of this conversation, you know, we've brought up, or 1150 01:27:15.600 --> 01:27:18.720 at least I've brought up you know, whether you know, different topics like 1151 01:27:18.800 --> 01:27:28.000 ghosts, UFOs, goblins, what have you. And in my opinion of 1152 01:27:28.560 --> 01:27:30.880 just looking at this stuff a long time, you know, I really do 1153 01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:36.359 think all that stuff is connected, and I think you can get a really 1154 01:27:36.359 --> 01:27:42.399 good appreciation for how strange this stuff becomes when you open yourself up to the 1155 01:27:42.399 --> 01:27:47.359 possibility that maybe those things are connected. So it's like when I first started 1156 01:27:47.359 --> 01:27:53.840 looking in the weird stuff as a kid, I thought UFOs and things were 1157 01:27:53.880 --> 01:27:58.039 really fascinating, but at the same time, it was never something that I 1158 01:27:58.119 --> 01:28:02.159 thought one could like act investigate. And the reason I say that is like, 1159 01:28:02.560 --> 01:28:06.319 if you take UFO experiences at like face value in the way that a 1160 01:28:06.319 --> 01:28:11.439 lot of people think about them, you know, it's like a sighting of 1161 01:28:11.479 --> 01:28:14.880 someone seeing something in a sky for a brief moment and then it goes away. 1162 01:28:15.000 --> 01:28:15.319 So it's like, what are you going to do. You're just going 1163 01:28:15.359 --> 01:28:19.199 to go to an open field and see the sky where something was, Like 1164 01:28:19.239 --> 01:28:23.560 that has nothing to do with where it went or what it was like. 1165 01:28:23.600 --> 01:28:26.680 There's not a whole lot to like go off of. There's not a whole 1166 01:28:26.720 --> 01:28:30.520 lot that's tangible or there aren't There isn't like a physical location that is like 1167 01:28:30.640 --> 01:28:34.000 the abode of the ufo. It's kind of like it's kind of like saying 1168 01:28:34.039 --> 01:28:39.840 you're going to investigate people by going to a place you saw a car drive 1169 01:28:39.880 --> 01:28:42.800 by the road. It's not going to actually tell you anything about what people 1170 01:28:42.840 --> 01:28:47.600 are. So there's always this kind of like intangible element to UFOs or as 1171 01:28:47.640 --> 01:28:51.239 fascinating as I found them as and as as mysterious as they were to me, 1172 01:28:53.600 --> 01:28:56.560 it was like, ah, but you know, you can't really explore 1173 01:28:56.600 --> 01:29:00.720 it. There's nothing to explore at least at least not at that point when 1174 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:02.239 I you know, when I was a kid, and then when it came 1175 01:29:02.680 --> 01:29:06.079 so I always had an interest, but then when it came to things like 1176 01:29:06.199 --> 01:29:13.399 bigfoot, cryptids, whatever, all kinds of different cryptids, Bigfoot in particular, 1177 01:29:13.520 --> 01:29:15.640 I thought it was interesting, and it wasn't that I didn't believe in 1178 01:29:15.680 --> 01:29:23.359 it, but I also was never interested in bigfoot stuff initially because you know, 1179 01:29:23.399 --> 01:29:26.720 when you read these stories the way that they're written about and propagated, 1180 01:29:26.800 --> 01:29:29.840 you know through pop culture, a lot of that narrative is that it's some 1181 01:29:29.960 --> 01:29:33.439 undiscovered animal in the woods. It's the missing link. It's this thing and 1182 01:29:33.520 --> 01:29:38.039 that thing, and you know, you you hear a lot of people rationalize 1183 01:29:39.199 --> 01:29:42.279 how they could exist in this amount of number if they live in this kind 1184 01:29:42.279 --> 01:29:46.039 of habitat, and it's all spoken of through this very strictly physical ends, 1185 01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:50.840 and it's as you know, hearing that as a kid, I'm like, 1186 01:29:50.920 --> 01:29:54.279 well, you know, it's interesting. I wonder what it is. It's 1187 01:29:54.279 --> 01:29:57.800 not that I didn't believe in it, but it also didn't interest me at 1188 01:29:57.800 --> 01:30:00.720 first because I viewed it as like, well, even if it is real, 1189 01:30:01.720 --> 01:30:04.720 it's probably just an undiscovered animal, you know, Like that's the way 1190 01:30:04.720 --> 01:30:09.760 people talk about it, which means it's not like supernatural, which means it's 1191 01:30:09.760 --> 01:30:14.279 not necessarily like the stuff I'm interested in, Like I'm curious about like supernatural 1192 01:30:14.319 --> 01:30:18.920 elements. I'm not necessarily like I'm not like a zoology outdoors person, you 1193 01:30:18.920 --> 01:30:24.159 know, not when I was a kid, so I kind of ignored a 1194 01:30:24.159 --> 01:30:28.960 lot of that stuff. So it's not until like, you know, for 1195 01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:31.079 the most part, you know, when I was in high school and such, 1196 01:30:31.079 --> 01:30:34.840 apart from like kind of like weirder occult type topics, you know, 1197 01:30:34.840 --> 01:30:40.039 a lot of that stuff kind of still held true to like ghost phenomena, 1198 01:30:40.319 --> 01:30:44.600 and I think that was really popular for a lot of people, which is 1199 01:30:44.640 --> 01:30:47.479 why a lot of people had ghost hunting groups, is because it was like 1200 01:30:47.640 --> 01:30:55.399 something tangible in a way where it gave people a physical location to get to, 1201 01:30:56.840 --> 01:31:00.239 and it seemed isolated where it's not like a big Foot where it's like 1202 01:31:00.399 --> 01:31:01.800 or UFO, where you're going to a place where it used to be. 1203 01:31:02.840 --> 01:31:06.800 You're going to a place where you believe it is right now, And there 1204 01:31:06.880 --> 01:31:11.880 was that kind of excitement there. There's a way that people interacted with it, 1205 01:31:12.279 --> 01:31:15.319 and I think that's why, for the most part, a lot of 1206 01:31:15.319 --> 01:31:19.159 people who are in the paranormal stuff tend to be people who are in the 1207 01:31:19.199 --> 01:31:25.680 ghosts and ghost hunting. So to get to the question, which I understand 1208 01:31:25.760 --> 01:31:29.840 is like long winded, it wasn't until I started digging into like say, 1209 01:31:29.880 --> 01:31:32.479 the high strange and stuff, which I think might be hard you know, 1210 01:31:32.640 --> 01:31:38.960 to tackle if you start off with it. But it's not until you see 1211 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:44.399 stuff repeat or you get and hear the right reports that you start to understand 1212 01:31:44.479 --> 01:31:49.000 that, like all that sort of stuff is weird, Like Bigfoot's actually weirder 1213 01:31:49.039 --> 01:31:54.239 than that narrative of it being like a monkey in the woods, and maybe 1214 01:31:54.359 --> 01:31:59.640 UFOs aren't coming from space. Maybe sometimes they're coming from underground, or people 1215 01:31:59.640 --> 01:32:03.439 are seeing them come from underground, or they're leading to places that are terrestrial 1216 01:32:03.560 --> 01:32:08.039 to our own planet. And then in between all that, maybe all of 1217 01:32:08.039 --> 01:32:11.239 those things are sort of like ghosts. So even when it comes to hunting 1218 01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:15.680 ghosts, how do you really know you're talking to something that you think is 1219 01:32:15.720 --> 01:32:18.520 a person. I think there's a lot of hauntings that aren't people that I 1220 01:32:18.600 --> 01:32:23.840 think people believe are. I think all this stuff is a lot stranger. 1221 01:32:23.920 --> 01:32:27.119 So, you know, one of the things I'd recommend for people starting out 1222 01:32:28.279 --> 01:32:31.880 is just be open to reading about all that stuff, but kind of have 1223 01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:38.520 like a arm's length point of view, like just a small step back, 1224 01:32:38.600 --> 01:32:41.600 and try and look for the little things that repeat in all of them, 1225 01:32:42.000 --> 01:32:45.159 because there are things that repeat, and there's a lot of similar things that 1226 01:32:45.199 --> 01:32:48.239 repeat in these stories, you know. But I'd also seek out, you 1227 01:32:48.279 --> 01:32:53.560 know, writings that kind of focus on high strangeness things like you know, 1228 01:32:53.600 --> 01:32:57.239 I know, for me, reading something even just like the Mothman Prophecies and 1229 01:32:57.359 --> 01:33:01.399 as a kid was really influential, you know, And that's a good book 1230 01:33:01.439 --> 01:33:09.680 that illustrates too how pop culture kind of distorts the viewpoints of what these things 1231 01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:14.399 are, because whenever you bring up Point Pleasant, people only really think about 1232 01:33:14.399 --> 01:33:15.840 the Mothman. We're like, oh, yeah, that's where people saw the 1233 01:33:15.840 --> 01:33:21.359 mothmn And what they don't realize is, like the Mothman was like almost the 1234 01:33:21.439 --> 01:33:26.359 least strange thing that was happening around that point of time. Most of the 1235 01:33:26.359 --> 01:33:31.439 stuff that happened in Point Pleasant that pertained the Mothman was UFO activity and weird 1236 01:33:31.479 --> 01:33:38.079 Man in Black Encounters and like Man in Black Encounters which would lead to ghostly 1237 01:33:38.159 --> 01:33:42.279 events inside of people's houses. Like there was so much weird stuff happening in 1238 01:33:42.319 --> 01:33:45.560 Point Pleasant, like the moth Man is this one element of it. And 1239 01:33:45.680 --> 01:33:48.479 yet I would argue there's probably a lot of people who like the Mothman and 1240 01:33:48.600 --> 01:33:54.199 that story that don't even know about that because all they hear about on these 1241 01:33:54.199 --> 01:33:58.079 shows is like, Mothman's really scary. Let's focus on that and talk about 1242 01:33:58.079 --> 01:34:03.680 people seeing a creature. People like creatures, and it completely overshadows this weirder, 1243 01:34:03.760 --> 01:34:06.960 interconnected element of like, well, actually there are a lot of people 1244 01:34:06.960 --> 01:34:12.000 who saw UFOs in their backyard and like UFOs were touching down and it was 1245 01:34:12.039 --> 01:34:15.560 so prominent there were literally troops of people going out at night and point pleasant 1246 01:34:15.640 --> 01:34:20.359 hunting UFOs that they were seeing flying over hilltops and stuff like. That's crazy. 1247 01:34:20.680 --> 01:34:24.880 And the fact that most shows that are about the Mofman don't talk about 1248 01:34:24.920 --> 01:34:31.359 that shows how misconstrued all these things are and how limited the viewpoints on the 1249 01:34:31.399 --> 01:34:35.000 surface are. And it doesn't help that, like there's a lot of bad 1250 01:34:35.039 --> 01:34:40.359 books out there that also will only focus on those things because they're salacious or 1251 01:34:40.880 --> 01:34:46.000 intriguing because there's a monster in the story. So try and Like it's a 1252 01:34:46.039 --> 01:34:51.840 difficult question because it's not an easy thing to get into, because it's kind 1253 01:34:51.880 --> 01:34:56.399 of a mess if we're going to be honest. So all I can say 1254 01:34:56.479 --> 01:35:00.680 is like, do your best to kind of like be skeptical, but go 1255 01:35:00.840 --> 01:35:04.880 in trying to and I'm not even trying to convince someone of this, Like 1256 01:35:04.920 --> 01:35:10.520 don't listen to me either, but try and see if it even happens for 1257 01:35:10.600 --> 01:35:13.039 you. Try and look for the patterns of this stuff, the way people 1258 01:35:13.239 --> 01:35:15.840 feel when they have these experiences, whether or not they saw anything weird that 1259 01:35:15.920 --> 01:35:21.159 happened beforehand, or just source a lot of info from different places, you 1260 01:35:21.199 --> 01:35:28.439 know, read about Bigfoot, read about UFOs read about fairy lore. I 1261 01:35:28.439 --> 01:35:32.119 would recommend reading a lot about fairy law because I think that actually ties in 1262 01:35:32.319 --> 01:35:35.319 to a lot of this stuff. And you know, read about ghosts, 1263 01:35:35.359 --> 01:35:42.640 but kind of see that there's a lot of overlap in these things. So 1264 01:35:42.840 --> 01:35:45.600 even if you're reading a book that might even you know, be biased towards 1265 01:35:45.680 --> 01:35:49.199 you know, a certain viewpoint, like I don't know, just seek out 1266 01:35:49.359 --> 01:35:54.479 strangeness factors and if it doesn't resonate with you, then don't stress it. 1267 01:35:54.640 --> 01:36:00.359 Just embrace things from a genuine curiosity point of view, and I think things 1268 01:36:00.359 --> 01:36:03.520 will work out for you in the end, you know. And I'm not 1269 01:36:03.640 --> 01:36:08.800 even as someone involved in it, like listen, I don't know what's going 1270 01:36:08.800 --> 01:36:11.760 on myself, which is why it's like, you know, it's almost even 1271 01:36:11.800 --> 01:36:14.119 embarrassing for me to be like, oh yeah, start with Hellier. I 1272 01:36:14.159 --> 01:36:16.720 would never even recommend Hellier as a start point, believe it or not, 1273 01:36:16.760 --> 01:36:21.279 because it's like, you know, hell here is a weird, complex thing 1274 01:36:21.319 --> 01:36:27.199 too that that might not be you know, the easiest material to digest it. 1275 01:36:27.279 --> 01:36:30.359 Just start start off anywhere, I guess, you know, because I 1276 01:36:30.359 --> 01:36:35.680 think I think if you're intellectually honest about the strangeness that's in between the lines 1277 01:36:36.880 --> 01:36:43.039 of reports and how they don't add up to the public narratives by default. 1278 01:36:43.119 --> 01:36:46.479 No matter where you start pulling the thread, like, you're gonna end up 1279 01:36:46.520 --> 01:36:51.520 unraveling the whole thing if you're honest about just thinking critically about things and being 1280 01:36:51.600 --> 01:36:59.920 open to their being alternative explanations or alternative truths to the complexity that these things 1281 01:37:00.079 --> 01:37:02.399 can give. And you know, I'm sure I'm repeating myself, so I'm 1282 01:37:02.439 --> 01:37:06.760 sorry for the long winded day. No, I don't. I don't have 1283 01:37:06.840 --> 01:37:12.119 a great answer for starting out, you know, other than be open to 1284 01:37:12.199 --> 01:37:15.600 possibilities and don't listen to the dogmatic beliefs of like this is what this is, 1285 01:37:15.640 --> 01:37:20.680 this is what that is, because I'm certain, I am certain most 1286 01:37:20.680 --> 01:37:26.039 of them are wrong. Uh, but that's not to say I know the 1287 01:37:26.119 --> 01:37:30.239 answers, you know, And I think that's important. We're also don't we're 1288 01:37:30.279 --> 01:37:34.319 all students, and don't be very wary of the people who claim to have 1289 01:37:34.359 --> 01:37:38.720 the answers, if not outright, Just to not listen to those kinds of 1290 01:37:38.800 --> 01:37:43.439 people, I think that's that's probably the best way you get in that possibly, 1291 01:37:43.520 --> 01:37:46.239 Tyler and we we we appreciate the time. I mean, seriously, 1292 01:37:46.239 --> 01:37:48.119 thanks for getting back to us, Thanks for coming on. I know you 1293 01:37:48.119 --> 01:37:50.520 weren't feeling super great today. I think you said you were foggy when we're 1294 01:37:50.520 --> 01:37:55.159 talking on Instagram, So I just tired. I'm feeling good though, I'm 1295 01:37:55.159 --> 01:37:57.720 feeling fine. I always perk up when when I ended up talking, I 1296 01:37:57.760 --> 01:38:00.479 was just like, I just wanted. I was just told being that I 1297 01:38:00.479 --> 01:38:05.840 would have decent responses for you because I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want 1298 01:38:05.880 --> 01:38:11.079 to not contribute to something. You know, that can lead to interesting discussion 1299 01:38:11.119 --> 01:38:14.359 as all. That's that's that was my only concern is like I didn't I 1300 01:38:14.359 --> 01:38:17.840 didn't want to not give you guys something that someone can work with. I 1301 01:38:17.880 --> 01:38:23.319 guess. Oh no, you did an amazing job and this has been an 1302 01:38:23.399 --> 01:38:25.800 awesome interview. Yeah, so thank you so much, Tyler, and want 1303 01:38:25.800 --> 01:38:28.199 to have you back on in the future so we can talk about all your 1304 01:38:28.239 --> 01:38:30.079 weird health. Yeah, that's something that I'm excited to talk to you about. 1305 01:38:30.119 --> 01:38:32.600 So again, thank you so much. Yeah, sure thing, Thank 1306 01:38:32.680 --> 01:38:36.119 you guys. Thanks for having me Brittany. I'll be honest, that kind 1307 01:38:36.119 --> 01:38:41.159 of felt like a long time coming, right, Yeah, and I do 1308 01:38:41.199 --> 01:38:43.640 find this interesting. This is something that like, I'm glad this is like 1309 01:38:43.680 --> 01:38:47.760 our first episode back in a minute, because this to me outlined a lot 1310 01:38:47.760 --> 01:38:51.079 of how I've been feeling lately that things have changed. I have changed, 1311 01:38:51.119 --> 01:38:55.800 We're getting well, we're getting back to our roots. Were so much further 1312 01:38:55.840 --> 01:38:58.319 away from where we were when we started, and I think that's important for 1313 01:38:58.399 --> 01:39:01.239 us to have a nice reflect Yes, a reflection was with a like minded 1314 01:39:01.239 --> 01:39:04.439 person who can kind of put this in perspective for us as well, like, 1315 01:39:04.439 --> 01:39:06.520 Hey, it's okay that you're feeling this way, because it's something that 1316 01:39:06.560 --> 01:39:12.520 we've discussed a lot privately, like is this still for us, not necessarily 1317 01:39:12.520 --> 01:39:15.600 as podcasting or as high stranges, but is the way that we're approaching this 1318 01:39:15.680 --> 01:39:19.199 still for us? And it's nice to hear that it's okay. Yeah. 1319 01:39:19.239 --> 01:39:21.399 So with that being said, Misspring, and let's see anything else that you 1320 01:39:21.399 --> 01:39:24.760 would like to add. I do not. I think we're have to add 1321 01:39:24.800 --> 01:39:29.880 this episode of Our Strange World with Tyler Strand to our never ending but are 1322 01:39:29.920 --> 01:40:27.199 always Growing tails from the dark a