Hmm, he was cold Cold, that was the name. He was cold.
Hm. What's going on up there? Could be the most important event
in history now, I am becoming back the destroyer of worlds, I said.
I hope this is close to hell is all never again. Hello and
welcome to the Tales to the Dark podcast. I'm your host Bob. You're
with my cost Brittany live in the studio. Hey guys, what's up,
Brittany? How are you doing today? I'm doing good. The colder weather
has got me feeling a little down, but I'm very excited for what we
have in store today. Yeah. So, uh, I don't want to
waste too much time, you know, but uh, I do want to
just put out real fast. If you guys missed it over on Patreon,
we did a pretty lengthy update on podcast. Yeah, well we kind of
went through like where A, where we been be, what's been going on,
all that kind of general housekeeping stuff. So if you guys are patrons
or you guys want to join and support us over at patreon dot com slash
Tales from the Dark, you can check it out over there. But with
that being said, miss Brittany, I think we just need to hop in
this interview because this is one that has been a long time coming and I
think people are really excited for I think so too. Well, all right,
miss Brittany. We were joined by Tyler Strand. Tyler, how are
you doing today, sir? I am doing awesome. I'm and I'm honored
to be here. So thank you for inviting me out to your podcast.
No. Absolutely, And it's kind of funny. We were just kind of
talking before we started to record here about the strange synchronistic way that kind of
brought you to Tales from the Dark, which was literally we were introducing,
you know, some friends of ours to hell youer and I was driving back
to Missouri to go pick up our cats, and all of a sudden,
I looked down at my phone. It says Tyler Strand heard of when my
messages, and I was like, what, Oh no, that's funny.
So, you know, we definitely appreciate you taking the time. I know
it's been a pretty hectic, so I do want to kind of touch base
real fast because some people might have just missed it. This episode's coming up
Monday, and your Goblin lottery, so to speak, just ended. Can
you kind of walk us through. What the Goblin Lottery was, You're gonna
have any more of those in the future or was this like a one time
it just happened to work thing. So it's funny you bring it up.
So the Goblin Lottery was just kind of a term that I came up with
on the spot because I didn't quite know how to frame the chaos of it
all in a positive light. So I figured it would be maybe more fun
for people to kind of view it as a sort of game, because it
kind of is a lottery. So what the Goblin Lottery was, which I
just finished this yesterday, is I'm actually, unbeknownst to I think quite a
few people that might even be familiar with Hellier, I actually am the creator
of the creature you see on the poster art for that docu series. So
the Goblin that you see on that poster art is actually a sculpture that was
hand crafted out of clay, and I created it years ago. I actually
created that sculpture. Funny enough, before Hellier was an idea for filming.
However, that sculpture was made with that case in mind. I actually sculpted
that before I even knew who the new Kirks were, which is kind of
funny, but I was familiar with their interviews that they had done previously that
talked about these strange emails that came in. So between the Hopkinsville Goblin incident
and the Hellier case, I sculpted this creature that was kind of an amalgamation
of these different elements, which is why when you watch Hellier, the person
who began this kind of journey, this mystery character named David. He sent
these emails and these photographs talking about these creatures that he believed were coming out
of an abandoned mind shaft at the edge of his property, and these creatures
were terrorizing his family at night, doing odd stuff like stealing children's toys and
shoving Christmas wreaths in the mailboxes. And by the time this gentleman allegedly witnessed
these creatures for himself, the way that he described them and the way that
they sort of look like in these few blurry photographs that he allegedly took,
they sound almost more like gray aliens, which is interesting when it's framed in
a subterranean sense. So he talks about how they had small, round bird
like eyes and thin, lipless mouths. He doesn't really mention a presence of
ears. But when you take that account and you compare it to the Hopkinsville
Goblin incident, which occurred in the nineteen fifties on the western end of Kentucky,
they sounded very similar, very similar antics, so to speak. So
the Hopkinsville Goblins, those had very prominent ears when you look at these kind
of witness sketches in the way that they were described. So I took it
upon myself to kind of make an amalgamation where I scaled those down. I
made proportions a little more realistic, to look like something that you might see
in nature, while retaining the descriptions that David gave of the eyes and the
lips, but generally making something that both had a great alien type feel to
it, but also something that kind of has a strange fay like feel to
it without you know, keeping a sort of vagueness to the form. So
I sculpted that creature, and I actually molded that original sculpture, which is
what I make replicas of through casting. I cast them by hand, I
paint them by hand, and there are these little busts that I create,
So they became a sort of collector's item amongst people who enjoy the docuseries,
and every so often I'll make reproductions of it from the original molding and I
sell them. So the other day I had a very finite amount of them
that I just finished. I had ten of them, and I know there's
a lot of people who have wanted them, so to keep things fair,
I sort of titled it the Goblin Lottery, and I had first come,
first serve, and I had everyone send me a message if they're interested in
purchase at precisely eight pm Eastern Standard time, and whatever the internet or the
algorithm decided was the first ten people to enter those messages are the ones who
receive them. So that's I just finished that, so still working through it,
I suppose. Well. I absolutely love that. I also love the
term Goblin lottery because it again the synchronicities have just been piling up. It
reminds me the first time we went to meet Geraldine Sutton Smith in this weird
way, I just kind of a shot her of message. I said,
Hey, I'm potentially working on this filming project project piece, would you be
available for an interview? And Geraldine and all of her amazingness, which you're
like, yeah, come to my house. Here's my address. And I
was like, oh wow, very cool, okay, perfect. So we
make the drive and we we go and do a little interview with Geraldine,
like in her kitchen, which was just awesome. And my favorite, my
favorite policy was her twenty cats, and I was just sitting there love it
on every single one of them. I was in heaven. I was in
cat heaven right there. I swear, Oh that's incredible. Yeah. Yeah.
So we we go down. We talked to Geraldine and at the end,
she gives us these uh, you know, the little Hopkinsville Goblin figurines
that she makes, and she hands it to me. I flip it over.
She's like, oh, well they're all numbered. They have certificates of
authenticity, so no one has the same one. And of course, by
happenstance, mine was number ninety three. And oh that's incredible. Yeah,
And I'm like fresh off my us and you know, it was one of
those things like I thought it hit the lottery. So when I saw Goblin
lottery come across Instagram, like that's got to be like one of the like
because no one knows that story. I don't even I've really told that on
the podcast before, so it was really think if you did, it was
way early on. So yeah, that's very very interesting. Yeah, oh,
that's that's very very cool. You know what's funny. I actually own
one of those myself and I had the so you'll find this detail very interesting.
And I don't think many people are aware of this, but this is
something that came about before we had even checked the maps to find straight lines
on all these pinpoints they go across the US. One of the first things
that sort of tipped me off to that kind of strangeness is back in twenty
seventeen during the solar eclips that occurred here in the US, the total solar
eclips. What's really interesting about that is that total solar eclips actually happened on
the exact anniversary date of the Hopkinsville Goblin incident, and Hopkinsville itself is actually
on the path, like perfectly on the path of totality for where that total
solar eclipse occurred. So when I traveled down into Kentucky in twenty seventeen,
this was all pre hellier. I was actually witnessed two of the solar eclips
on the Sutton Farm really on the anniversary date of when that happened, which
I find very curious. So I was actually able to meet Geraldine for the
first time when I traveled there, and I was able to secure one of
her pajama goblins. Oh yeah, she so is by hand. We have
like seven of her goblins at this point. It's we're basically fay ourselves because
we have so many trinkets. It's not even funny. But no, I
remember where I was too. I completely forgot that there was a total solar
eclipse. I was in the mountains of western North Carolina up on one of
the ridges and parkways. I've never been there before, and we watched it.
That's really cool. I didn't know. Wow, I didn't know that
was on the anniversary of the Hopkinsil Goblins. Yeah, it was very strange,
very strange timing. And that was one of those things that's like,
huh, where does this? Does something like this happen in other areas?
You know, Is there's something to do with these these sort of lines,
you know. I always thought that was kind of curious, and I anticipated
it because even before twenty seventeen, I became aware that it was going to
land on the anniversary date. I think like two years prior to it happening,
like probably back in either twenty fifteen or twenty sixteen. I ended up
finding out that it was going to happen, so it was just kind of
waiting waiting for that to occur, and it was quite the adventure I drove.
I drove from Western Pennsylvania where I currently live, eight hours straight starting
at midnight, and I rolled up to the event as the sun was rising,
so there were like two days of not sleeping by the time I spent
all day there, and then I got trapped in Kentucky. Funny enough,
because there were so many vehicles leaving this small town at one time that it
became one of those blocked bottleneck areas that I ended up hearing that it took
people eight hours just to leave Hopkinsville. I ended up having to actually crash
at a gas station because traffic was so bad. It was so built up.
I uh so I got stranded there. Believe it or not, it
just sounds like unestly, it was very bad. I was going in out
of consciousness while waiting for a place I could pull off because I was I
was so tired. I was so exhausted from the heat and everything. But
it was very beautiful. It was very eerie. It was the first time
I had ever witnessed a total solar eclips and as of yet the only time
actually, uh, And it was very strange. It was one of those
moments where, given the the time and place, I wasn't quite certain if
that would have some kind of strange effect, I guess, but it was.
It was very beautiful to witness, but also very eerie to be there
when it happened. Well, what's crazy about that as well, is it
just so happens because it's one small ring that goes around the entire Earth that
you can actually see the full total solar eclipse. So it just happened to
be on the same day of the Hopkinsville Goblins, and it just so happened
to be visible, extremely visible in the area where it happened. Like that's
that's a very one in a million, one billion kind of chance. Yeah,
it was very strange, and there's seems to be abundance of those strange
things that line up in that way. Anomalies in general definitely bring out a
lot of high strangeness. So it's very strange, but yeah, it was
almost it's pretty much perfectly in the center of the path of totality from when
that happened. So there were like millions of people that were in that general
area in Kentucky, let alone a lot of people that were at this event
that was taking place just to celebrate the Hopkinsville incident, which is you know
where I was at. So it was very unique and that's why, like
I knew I needed to travel out there because it was such a once in
a lifetime kind of opportunity to immerse myself in that one moment, and it
was worth it. It was a good memory for me. That's that's absolutely
incredible. So I want before we get too deep into Kentucky because I know
that's where this podcast is going to head very quickly. Yeah, I do
want to talk about your special effects background, because I always find it interesting
to look at these little quips and growing up in the nineties, I kind
of had this conversation with Brittany about whether or not this is true. I
feel like nineties early two thousands was that like last Golden Area era rather of
special effects makeup, and I was kind of doing some digging. I wanted
to get your opinion as well as you know, figure out your special effects
background on Joel Heineg specifically because you know, we know his father, we
know the Predator series. Now we have these sightings from Ryald, West,
Virginia, Lima, Ohio, all over Kentucky of these predator like cloaked beings.
Do you find that more than a synchronousy like do you think maybe his
dad told them something in passing? And then we have the modern predator that
we know. Oh that's interesting. So when you talk about these predator type
sightings, are you referring to this kind of like invisible form that people see
shifting around or does this look more like physically like when you're able to see
it in the film? No, like like the type of being they see
them in trees or they'll see them like yeah, yeah, like a distortion,
that clear distortion. I've heard of those incidents. And you know what's
funny with that question is it brings up a lot of interesting speculation that I
think you could look at from two opposite ends. And this is something that
I'm always kind of grappling with myself when it comes to looking at how pop
culture affects the forms these things take, so it's not necessarily a popular theory
at the moment, at least not amongst the majority. But my stance on
these various forms that this phenomenon takes is that even though I think there are
elements that tend to repeat, and one could look at some aspects of evidence
left behind as being proof positive that they were nothing but physical, I don't
necessarily agree with or believe that these things are entirely physical. I think they're
physical when they're physical, and then I think they're more like ghosts when they're
not, which is why I think it's so difficult to nail them down,
let alone find them or capture them, you know, in the various forms
and ways that people try to And with that kind of speculation, I think
there's an abundance of evidence out there to suggest that these things can even look
different depending on who's looking. Even if someone is standing shoulder to shoulder,
two people can have a sighting of something that's outside of themselves, but that
thing that they see can look wildly different. You know. An example I
always bring up is I know a husband and a wife who were witnessed to
a UFO event over Lake, Michigan, and when they saw this UFO fly
in front of them, the wife saw what looked like a giant, luminous
jellyfish like object swim through the air, while her husband, who was standing
right next to her, did not see that at all. What he was
witnessed to was a giant thunderbird like sighting. And that's interesting because when you
look at areas of high strangeness, you will find big bird sightings. And
when I say big bird sightings, I don't mean like, oh, here's
a turkey vulture. They're like these giant, larger than life, larger than
possible birds that are just historic, yeah, prehistoric looking yeah. And you
find that, and it's and it's frustrating in a way when you see the
way pop culture has dictated the way people think about these things, because I
think there's a lot of people who hear sightings or hear about sightings of big
birds and they throw it in the cryptid bin and they're like, well,
this is a cryptid and it's physically out there, it's an unknown animal.
And I don't agree with that. I don't think any of these things are
unknown animals. And I don't think they're just out there waiting to be captured
by a fisherman's net or a trail camera. I think we're dealing with something
that can take many forms. I think it's more a cult in nature.
I think it's more like a ghost, and I think those forms are partially,
not completely, but can be partially dictated by our own set of symbols
and our own state of mind. That's just my speculation. So when it
comes to something like the Predator and placing it in the viewpoint of say pop
culture, like an existing monster, I think that opens up a whole other
can of worms with that angle, And I think that angle is part of
why we see monsters the way we do. I don't doubt that the monsters
we create for entertainment, even if they stemmed from fiction, I don't doubt
that some of those forms may actually repeat or end up being witnessed by people
having an actual occurrence. And I think it's because those forms are in the
zeitgeist people that kind of stuff is on people's minds. A good example of
this, even though this is a whole other can of worms, there are
a lot of strange sightings of monsters that when people encounter them, they're actually
wearing flannel shirts. And there are incidents that I've heard from people like my
friend Tim Renner. He's interviewed people who have had sightings of something like a
werewolf and that thing was wearing a flannel shirt, you know, and we
see that. You know, that's like very much like a Hollywood monster trope.
So I think someone could go, well, what came first a chicken
or the egg? Or does does this prove that it's just in someone's head
because they watched a monster movie? Like, I don't think that's the case.
I don't think that means it's false, but I think it shows evidence
that there are elements of these things that latch onto what's in the collective mind
of people. So I don't doubt that something even like Predator and that kind
of cloaking device, you know, is something that carries over. And when
we talk about these kind of unknown things taking any kind of form, you
know, what's so symbolic of that or other than something that is just translucent
and vague and generalized. So whether or not he was inspired by something that
maybe he was witnessed who I can't say, but I think there's elements as
well as how we create our monsters that like the people who make monsters are
also people who are tapping into a kind of collective idea. And I think
there's a lot to the formation of mind monsters, even when fictionalized, that
still come from a place of like one's own natural unconscious, And I think
our unconscious also has these forms inside of it, the same way this phenomena
has. So I don't think we even have to look at one necessarily causing
the other, because I think they both cause each other at the same time.
They're both an aspect of nature. Our imagination is an aspect of nature,
and I think these things, whatever they are, are also plugged in
and connected to those aspects of our imagination. So I think someone could go
back and forth all day and go, well, what came first, the
chicken or the egg, you know, And I don't think there's going to
be a clear answer there. I think it goes back and forth and it
repeats a lot, like how two magnets attract each other. And I think
creativity is of that same fabric. So I don't doubt and it's not a
shock to me that people are seen forms that imitate or are reminiscent of modern
pop culture monsters, you know, But I don't think that makes them false,
and I don't think that means it was in their head. I just
think it furthers that discussion, and it furthers that stance that I just laid
out, that we're dealing with something that's more complex than the rigid flesh and
blood barriers that we've placed around these sort of things in their separate categories.
Air quotes well to expand on that as well. When it comes to the
dial and all its mind with the Kampollion, you know, everything that we're
talking about on that, you know, and a lot of these theories and
ancient theories that have been talked about and philosophies have been passed down through generation
generation. You know, people say that everything that ever was and everything that
ever will be is all connected to the one mind and the hive mind and
hive mind of consciousness and subconsciousness, and to be able to act sense that
would be the key downlocks the universe. But if we really are connected on
that kind of level spiritually, then it would make sense that people will be
able to pull from that collective knowledge and manifest and create these beings, these
monsters whatever that come from right where we're at our own reality, we just
can't see them. Yeah. Sure, And I think there's even you know,
for people that find those kinds of topics hard to digest, like when
we even bring up, you know, spirituality and these kind of mental aspects
of it. I think there's even a more naturalistic way one could view that
if that's maybe you know, not in their wheelhouse in the sense that like,
I don't, I don't think that sort of collective is anything other than
natural. And we see evidence of this in just the form's nature takes itself.
And a good example of this is I find it infinitely fat fascinating that
there are animals that replicate the forms of other animals to evade their own natural
predators. So an example I always try to bring up is like there are
moths and butterflies that when they expand their wings, the tips of their wings
actually have the form of what looks like a snake on them, or the
color, yeah, the color of a snake, but but literally there's one
that it looks like the head of a snake, it's eye and everything it
mimics the form of a snake, even though it's a completely separate organism evolution
in some way, shape or form, there is something in that ethor that
even if you want to talk about the selective breeding and evolution of what allows
something to survive and carry on traits, we still have to look at nature
and accept that there are things that might not even be aware of the forms
they take, and yet they're mimicking something completely separate from themselves. And to
think that we as human beings are separate from that, I think is very
ignorant, a very ignorant stance, which is why that even opens up interesting
discussions and we talk about where our ideas of mythology come from. When we
have repeating stories and we have repeating folklore. You know, I really do
believe there's a space in our own DNA that has these forms in it.
I think imagination itself is a product of our natural environment and a product of
the earth itself. So I think there's bigger questions that can even be asked
where it's like, why do we have mythological forms? And when we see
those mythological forms again, what came first chicken or the egg? Is it
really us manifesting things outside of ourselves with our own imagination, or do we
have those imaginations because there's an element of us, that primal element that we
don't tap into consciously all the time, that is just aware of the things
that are out in the world and we get glimpses of that through imagination,
you know. So it's you know, I think all of that is present,
and we see that that's present even by just observing wildlife, you know,
in the forms they take. You know, the fact that there's insects
that mimic the forms of leaves. You know, we're talking about two completely
separate forms of living organisms on the planet that have nothing in common with themselves,
and yet we see mimicry happen often in nature. So when we talk
about mimicry being an element of the supernatural, like, it doesn't make mimicry
a supernatural element that's all stuffed terrestrial to your own planet. I just don't
think people have that overview of it, which is why they ignore that or
they place these extra terms on things as being supernatural or unnatural. I don't
think any of this stuff is unnatural or let alone outside the realm of what
we already see as a physical truth in our own ecosystem. But you know,
obviously there's stranger elements that we don't grasp. Given where we fall on
that scale, I guess you know there's I think there's still a lot of
mystery, and I think we as living organisms still have a lot of our
own blind spots that regardless of how advanced we think we are, we're still
just one small animal with its limited knowledge base. That doesn't mean there aren't
other animals out there that can know and see and do more things than what
you're capable of, the same way we can do and see more things than
what certain animals are capable of. I think all living things have their blind
spots, and I think that's why these monsters that we talk about seemingly pop
out of the fabric, out of nowhere, and that we try to overrationalize
it by saying, oh, well, it must be from another dimension,
or it must be from space. You know, a fish that doesn't know
about human beings on the surface would say the same thing about us. But
we're still from one place. And I like to think that these things,
as supernatural as we believe them to be, are in fact likely terrestrial to
our own human condition and our own planet. I don't think these things are
coming from anywhere other than here, if you were to ask my personal opinion.
But I think the only reason why people speculate that they don't is because
of the ignorance that we prescribe ourselves with how high and mighty we believe ourselves
to be. Well, one thing I definitely want to add it to that
before I pass it on to Bob is the fact that we are actively during
this day like today, we are actively discovering new information, new civilizations,
new everything that we thought we knew about our evolution, about other ancient civilizations,
about everything about beliefs and gods. New gods and things like that are
also being found. We are actively discovering who we are as humans on a
terrestrial level. So when you combine that with the ignorance of that, you
know, supernatural might not actually be here, might be in space, or
it doesn't exist at all. You do have to have kind of an open
mind because we don't even know who we really are. Nothing is set in
stone. We're constantly in a state of discovery. And you know, meant
in my opinion as well, and you know, I know belief is the
enemy, but you know, mental mental development and mental stimulation when it comes
to the paranormal, supernatural, cryptids, UFOs, whatever is the next step
in my opinion, that we personally have been exploring and looking into. I
agree with you one hundred percent on that. I really do think that's going
to be something that really opens a lot of the necessary dialogue that I think
we're lacking. I do think mental phenomen enough and those aspects of the self
that we don't that we still don't really understand about ourselves are a key component
to the way these things present, even though you know they're seemingly outside of
us. It's just it's just I believe some way they're wired, you know,
And but it doesn't mean that's not how we're wired. I think we
are, and that's why we have these experiences. But it's it's like some
aspect of ourselves we just don't quite understand fully and it's a mystery. So
by default it's going to be confusing to people, you know, when we
when we come across these things. But but I really do think it all
has its place in the grand scheme of things and the way the world works.
It's just a fraction of that world that I don't think we're very well
versed in, even though on some primal level, I think we have those
elements in us and we have continually interacted in those ways. It's it's just
a complicated thing. It's exists in a different pattern of thinking than the pattern
that we need to rely on to get through our normal, everyday lives.
And I think that's why it's hard for people to really get wired into this
stuff or grasp it in the way that they need to. It's complicated,
and it's okay to understand that. Yeah, you know, at the end
of the day, there is a lot of mystery, and I think I
think the healthiest thing for us to do is just to understand we really don't
know a whole lot about these things. Even though there are people who can
know a lot with what's available, it's still so finite. At the end
of the day, it's a mystery, and I think it's far better healthier
to acknowledge that we don't know what these things are and to be open to
understanding that we don't really know anything. I think we'd make a lot more
progress if we spend more time acknowledging how much we don't know, rather than
trying to be so emboldened to convince is that we do know what we're talking
about as and I see that a lot. There's a lot of people who
speak in absolutes when they talk about what they think this stuff is, and
it just comes off as silly to me. It comes off as like I'm
listening to a fantasy fiction writer tell me about something, even though there's fantastical
elements. It's I think there's a way you can do that, and I
think there's a healthy way to have certain biases about what these things might be.
But I also think you can do that while retaining that there is a
mystery there that even with what we do know about it, it's still not
an answer. Oh one thing I was just gonna hop in real quick.
One thing that we talked about consistently on the podcast is that there are no
experts in this field. There are people that know way more than we do.
There are people that probably know more, way more than you do,
Tyler. But to call yourself an expert is to claim that you've mastered something
in a field, and that's just not possible. In my onion for anything
paranormal, cryptid, anything to do with high stranges with your students, and
we're still constantly learning and adapting to what new high strang has to bring and
has to offer. Sure, I can agree with that. I mean,
I do think one could say that, you know, when it comes to
knowledge base there, yeah, you know, there's certainly people who know a
lot, and there's people like if you had to put those terms on you
could. But at the same time, I think in more than one walk
of life, I think it's the best stance you can have is acknowledging that
you're forever a student, because that it's only when you think you're not that's
when you start to lose it. That's when you start to lose I don't
know that's not necessarily a sense of wonder, but I think you fall off
the path. I never expect to not be a student when it comes to
this. I don't think there's ever going to be a time in my life
where I'm going to go, wow, I figured it out, guys.
You know. So it's like, I think it's so healthy for people have
that mindset, and I think it keeps you on the right path, you
know, it's it's a complicated topic and it's infinitely interesting, and there's no
matter how much you dig into it, there's not I don't think there's enough
time in one human life span to ever be able to learn at all.
And that's another like difficult thing to acknowledge and grasp is like you can get
far and you can learn a lot, I think, but I don't think
you're ever going to be able to see the whole picture, because I really
do think a lot of this stuff goes far beyond the time that we're given
here individually. No, I would completely agree with that, And I want
to kind of ask you what got you into this field of work, specifically
when it comes to the paranormal, because one thing about how you're that stuck
out to me is someone who's been a ghost hunter for fifteen years, however
long it's been. You know, again, in the beginning, it was
just me my friends talking to a dollar General quarter hoping that ghosts would talk
back. So you can't really count that necessarily, But what got you into
the paranormal? And then as a solo investigator, what goes through your mind?
Do you feel like you're better off that way or it's just lack of
options. There's not a lot of weirdos around that want to go out and
do this with you, so you found it easier to kind of stick with
yourself when it comes to your investigation. Well, to start with the latter
question, when it comes to like doing certain things alone, it's not that
I necessarily think it's better to do things alone. Like I'm always open,
you know, to working with people you know, and obviously have, but
at the same time, I think, given my stance and the viewpoints I
have on this phenomenon, now, the big difference with me when it comes
to a lot of people who you know air quotes investigate these things or actively
pursue them, is I am no longer like this might sound, this might
be shocked some people listening, but I am no longer invested nor interested in
trying to prove anything, So I don't I'm not in technically investigating anything.
I can count on one hand how many times I've done anything that I can
consider an investigation, Like I think you can say Hellier is an investigation since
it required digging into stuff and trying to learn more things. But in the
grand scope of things, it's like all that digging is just learning more about
the phenomena. I don't necessarily think the way people have been led to believe
one proves the paranormal or the kind of evidence people seek. I'm very skeptical
of our capability of doing that. That's not to say that there hasn't been
things captured, but I think it's very rare, and I think one could
make an argument that when it is, it was done intentionally by whatever these
things are. So well, when I'm exploring places like more than anything,
I consider myself an explorer rather than an investigator, because I think it's more
true to the the stance I take. You know, I'm always immersed in
areas of strangeness, and I'm always immersed in places that can come with their
experiences. But I'm not investigating. There's nothing for me to investigate. It's
just things that I'm aware of, and I go to places where I can
study it or become closer to it. I'm not out to capture the next
hot piece of video or the next EVP or convince someone that this is real,
because in the end, I don't even care anymore about if people believe
in this or not. I don't think everyone ever will, and I think
it's I think certain people are cut out for it more than others, and
I don't think it's necessarily healthy for everyone who tries to pursue it. I
think there's certain people who act as better translators for this phenomena than others,
and I think that's part of the problem we see with like some pop culture
elements, where these things get really misconstrued. So for me, I'm more
than anything. I'm an observer of this phenomena, and I place myself in
scenarios where those things can fold naturally, and should they unfold naturally, I
will deliver those things to whoever is willing to listen. But it's not my
job to investigate or convince anyone otherwise, Like I don't need to investigate things
I already believe in. I'm not seeking an answer anymore. I'm seeking better
understanding, but I already have answers. I know the stuff is out there.
I'm not trying to be convinced, but I think there's a great There's
a vast difference between learning and reading about a thing and experiencing a thing,
And I think the ones who are granted the opportunity, for better or for
worse, to experience these things have a much greater understanding than the people who
spend their lives reading about it. And that's why I place myself in a
lot of places, and why I'm always exploring a lot of places, even
if I'm alone. It's not that I'm like doing some formulaic thing where I
have a recorder or I have a camera. It's understanding at this point that
it's through experience that can give me a deeper understanding than all the books I
read. And that's kind of the stance I take with all this stuff,
like I don't have I don't have any one mission statement with it, Like
I'm open to the unexpected avenues that will open up from the pursuit, and
there's always unexpected things. I guess I've just I've detached myself from trying to
predict where the next thing will lead, whether that be maybe cap evidence,
or whether that be delivering a good piece of information to the public that they
can consume, or whether that be just putting me down a different path in
my own life. I think all those things collide. So I've almost become
more free in a way where I don't have expectations. So I think that's
why it's easier to be alone, because there's no expectations being put upon me
by anyone else. Because most people have their own expectations because they're on their
own path. So the long winded answer to that comes together right at what
I said there is that I want to be free of expectation, because I
think once you're free of expectation, that's when phenomena actually occurs. And that's
a very difficult thing to practice. And I think that's something one could look
at through a spiritual lens or an esoteric lens. And I think that's why
most people don't experience things. It's because they want it too badly. They
never reach the point where they accept that it's okay to let it unfold when
it's supposed to or when it wants to, and that you're not the one
in control of it. You're not the one who's going to go out and
just capture it because you have a device in your hand. I think when
you unmarry yourself from those ideas, that's when these things become more aware,
and they become more aware of you and you of it, and they pop
out of the woodwork, which is why, like I'm not I'm not so
sold anymore on being the one who's distracted by devices and going out with a
mission to capture something. I place myself in scenarios where the unexpected can happen,
and it can happen in secrecy because this phenomena value secrecy, and the
only way that I can become the closest to that is by being alone in
lonely places. I guess is my stance on that. So I know it's
like a long winded answer, but I hope that made sense. But when
it comes to I'm sorry, what was the first question? The first part
of that question, it was just literally what got you into investigating in the
first place? Right, right? So it's funny too, like even that
is something that's a little different because you know, I understand a lot of
people get into this because they had an experience, you know, whether they
were young or you know, regardless of age. But for me, I've
always just been interested in it because like why wouldn't I be. It's the
most fascinating topic one could ever like think about, Like, like we're talking
about this grand hidden thing that permeates a reality let alone affects people every day,
so to me, I always just had a natural interest in it,
even though I did have experiences when I was younger, like I've had experiences
that are very strange that I've not even publicly spoken on yet. So I
could have used that sort of excuse to justify why I'm into it, But
the reality is, whether those things happened or not, I still would have
been into it. And I think that's also a part of that message from
the second half of the question is like, I think these things tend to
pop out of the woodwork more when someone genuinely has a thirst for knowledge rather
than just experience, even though that can go hand in hand. You know,
I'm not trying to say I'm not someone who wants that next experience,
but I also know I'm someone who genuinely had moments in their life where I
was so thirsty for answers, so thirsty to know something else that's outside of
the mundanity. I think it's that curiosity that summons these things forth, and
I think that's why there's a lot of people who on a surface level,
whether they're ghost hunting or looking for big Foot or looking for UFOs I think
a lot of them are too experience driven, where they only want the thing
to happen to them rather than the answers to happen to them. And I
think that's also what kills it, because I really do think there is a
deeper, hidden, secret element to why these things appear to those they appear
to. And I think the seeking of knowledge is the fabric they're made of,
which is why they pop out. But that's just my speculation, you
know, in my own experiences. I guess if that answers the questions,
No, it absolutely does. And the one thing I wanted to add to
that as well is, you know, talking more on the occult side,
is too expect will bring about feelings of either excitement or disappointment if you have
a narrowed viewpoint of what you think should happen, and that's to be polarized.
And sure, we're talking about the middle pillar ritual here. You want
to be in a completely neutral state of being, of mind, of feeling
for you to participate or to execute any kind of ritual. And I think
that's the same applies for any kind of investigation or exploring. Is when you
go in with a neutral state of being that becomes a mold a you know,
handful of clay that the phenomenon can then mold into what you're supposed to
see or sure, yeah, and I can get behind that. I agree,
there's elements of that, you know. And that's not to say,
you know, I don't get excited, clearly I do. But you know,
in the years that have passed, you know, in me getting deeper
with this, I only become more and more reserved, and I've learned durin
it in a bit more. But it's still like, you know, but
even excitement though I don't doubt though there's still elements where the phenomena does feed
off of that too, or does feed off of fear. I think it
also at times requires those things as well, you know, but it's it
is. There is something to be said though about just expectation in general that
I think it blinds people to the more subtle things it presents. And I
think that's one of the most important aspects of why you shouldn't have expectation,
because I think there's a lot of people who've probably had really weird things happen
in their life, but they were so expecting of only seeing like the big
thing which validates it that they never caught on to the weird little synchronicities that
popped up beforehand. Well, think of it like horse visors, Like when
you have expectation, you have a narrow way of thinking because that's how you
think it's going to go. And you could absolutely be excited just for the
sake of being excited, and that doesn't make you polarized. What I think
makes you polarize is the fact that you have a vision of what you think
you're going to experience or see, and that can either a manipulate you how
you interpret what you see and manipulate that idea, or be manipulated. It's
the energy around you, as it very well could I mean theoretically sure,
hypothetically sure to change whether you do see something, what you do see,
or how you interpret it. So that's that's kind of how I was feeling
about that. But yeah, absolutely I'm with you. I'm with you one
hundred percent, and I'm with you one hundred percent on that. But like
I said, also, I think there's also so much there's so much subtle
phenomena that comes with this stuff, which is why, like you know,
when it comes to not having expectations, like there's also this weird line.
I think people need to learn to walk, which is like trusting in the
little personal things that means stuff to you. And that doesn't mean like everything
is a sign. That doesn't mean because because I see the negative aspect of
that too, where people lean too far into that, where every little fallen
leaf on the ground means something, and I that's a tricky thing to navigate
in of itself. But there's a lot of stuff that springs up around the
pursuit of this stuff. Not to use the word that we over use,
but there are a lot of synchronicities that pop up, and I think those
synchronicities can lead you to an understanding or lead to a story that's very strange
that is actual phenomena. But it's not like you're seeing some kind of monster
or you're having some big, completely supernatural event that's unexplainable. I think there's
a lot of strangeness that happens that has a lot of plausible deniability behind it
due to the nature of the subtlety it presents. And I think that's part
of that secretive nature that goes along with these things. And I think the
people who are stuck in that mode of thinking of like, oh, it's
only when I see a ghost that is the ghost of the experience I'm seeking.
Like there's other forms of experience that a lot of people don't hear about,
you know, Like I've had some of the most amazing supernatural experiences in
my local walmart because of strange things that have happened, you know. And
it's like if I wasn't someone who was in that mindset to be receptive of
the subtlety, the subtlety of strangeness that just permeates us all the time,
that permeates reality all the time. I think a lot of people miss that
because they're too busy chasing the big stuff. But the reality is the big
stuff. It's not that it doesn't happen or won't happen. I just think
that stuff is rare and it happens for some kind of reason. I think
when it's meant to, and it will happen more if you allow the little
things to happen first. And I think too many people jump headfirst into the
deep end of the pool because they want to see the vast spaces of this
stuff, but they haven't learned how to swim, and they drown, and
they drown. Their ability to witness this phenomenon like you need, I think,
I think people need to come to an understanding that there's a gradient scale
to the immensity of how these things present and there's probably a lot of little
subtle strangeness that presents itself in day to day life that gets ignored. So
there's almost like a certain kind of sensitivity that I think is gained over time
of just being curious and speculating and thinking, and that also comes with that.
To go back to that question you guys had about why like being alone
sometimes is because like you're only at your most sensitive when you're alone because you're
not putting on some kind of front or you're not engaging in some kind of
social activity where you have to be completely present in a different way because there's
someone else in your vicinity. I can be free to be vacant in a
way when I'm alone where I don't have any any expectations or any expectations of
thought. There's a lot of times and I'm in the woods alone where my
head is completely empty, and I might not know why I'm there. You
know, that's part of the strangeness of it all. I'm in a lot
of weird areas for a lot of strange reasons that I myself don't always know
why I'm there, but I understand there might be a point to it,
all the while not expecting something to happen. But I can't be so,
I can't be so untethered if I'm around someone. So I think that sensitivity
and that that subtlety of allowing you know, things to happen in that way
also benefits, you know, being alone sometimes. But that's not to say
being alone is like to be all end all. It's just, you know,
a personal thing that I think people should experience once in a while.
Like even if, like if any of your listeners are exclusively people who ghost
hunt with teams, like, that's all fine and good, and I'm not
trying to discredit anyone's methodology, geez. I think everyone comes to their own
knowledge in their own ways, and I think they're all valuable. But I
would encourage people to try and see how you feel and how many things you
go through when you are alone in a strange place. You know, do
it safely, of course, don't do anything dangerous, but you go through
so much mentally when you're alone, and that's something that like, you know,
a personal change that I've seen in me in the last five years is
like looking back and remembering how scared I was in the woods at night like
five, six, you know, seven years ago, and now I can
go into the woods with ease at night. That's not to say there aren't
moments where like that fear comes back. There are you know, there's still
moments where, like you know, parent paranoia that comes in. But it
is not an easy thing to do, to be able to go into the
woods at night, And that's something that I don't think a lot of people
even have experience in that all that changes you. I think the interaction and
the willingness to push yourself into altered states of mind are also part of this
pursuit. And being in these places alone, whether people realize it or not,
is still an altered state of mind that I don't think you can achieve
when you're around other people. So it's an interesting experiment for your listeners to
consider if they have the safe opportunity to do so. Well. That's something
that me and Bob talk about a lot, and I'll let him explain that
here in just a second. But I grew up born and raised in the
Appalachia Mountains, so I'm from western North Carolina. I know exactly what you're
talking about back with fun. Oh yeah, trust me, we'll talk about
that here soon. I know you had some weird experiences on Brown Mountain.
My family's from Black Mountains, so pretty close by. But oh wow,
how many colors do they come in? Kind out? For real? Literally
looked at a color wheel and was like, Okay, this is what that's
called. This is what that But yeah, no, we talk about that
a lot on the podcast. And it's so weird to have this conversation with
you because it's like a speed run of like a combination of knowledge that we've
shared with our audience and the experiences that they've been willing to share with us
as well. But what were you going to say? Well, no,
I was just gonna say I absolutely love this because literally the other day,
so Brittany comes up from Missouri, I went and bought some computer parts in
Waverley, Ohio, which is an hour or so outside of Point Pleasant,
relatively close to Chilicothee, Ohio, which has its own high strangeness and weirdness
and missing person's cases, the whole nine. Yeah, I'm literally driving through
Waverley. I text Brittany. I'm like, hey, there's something up with
this town. Couldn't put my finger on it, just something weird. I'm
like, it reminds me of and I couldn't think of, like Summerset.
That's that's what this reminds you of a summerset. So I text her like,
I'm on my way back. She's I'm gonna take a quick nap.
So I'm like, well, she's napping, I'm gonna go into the state
park. That's literally on the drive, because that's what you do, you
know, when your fiance goes to sleep. You're just like, I'm not
even gonna let her know I'm doing this. It's fine. Yeah, so
normal Tuesday. Well, so I pull into the state park and I see
this, uh, this old fire watch tower, and I'm kind of looking
around. I'm like, oh, there's no sign to say I can't go
up to the top of this watch tower. So I climbed to the top
take some fun pictures, and I'm kind of just there. I didn't know
why I was there. It just kind of felt like there was something to
this area. I'm sure you you know that feeling all too well. So
I drive through it a little bit and I ended up telling Brittany like,
hey, you know we did come back out here at night. Well,
it turns out we had been to this town before, it had this conversation
years prior, and it just I completely forgot for you know, one reason
or another. We did a little Estes method session that was all well and
good. We saw what we thought was some weird stuff out in the woods.
But that to me speaks to when you have that call of this,
I have an opportunity to rive through during the daytime. It's safety. Go
in the state park. I wouldn't recommend, you know, climbing fire watch
towers. That's probably you definitely thought you were gonna get rested. You told
me after, You're like, I know, I know someone should have come
out there and told me to stop. But I stopped every three to four
floors, like, look around, like, no one's gonna come get me.
You guys are gonna let me do this, Okay, That's that's fine.
You're like, I was kind of hoping you would. The higher I
got, the more I'm like, how bad do I want this? That's
funny as you can see like the boards like falling through and have to walk
on the railing. Yeah. Yeah, that was a that was a but
it was a good time. It was a humbling experience. Yeah, but
to kind of shift gears. But I want to I want to talk Kentucky.
My heart's in Kentucky. Man. Yeah, I've grown from someone who
only ever drove the I seventy five corridor straight down to Knoxville. I had
no idea Eastern Kentucky existed in the way that it does until I was twenty
seven twenty. I mean, it's kind of funny. I make the joke
that I, uh discovered myself in spirituality at twenty nine through high strangeness and
uh we we we made our our. I kind of call it the paranormal,
the cryptid pilgrimage. I kind of tweeted this at Greg and it was
one of the first times he like interacted. I fanggirled out. I'm like,
holy, holy hell, this guy he knows I exist. But we
went to Point Pleasant and then uh went down to Hell You're and we kind
of before that, we went to Marietta Ohio and uh, yeah, I'm
just gonna say Prestonsburg, but that's outside what is it Parkersburg than you But
yeah, we went to Point Pleasant Parkersburg, then down to Hellyer. Yeah,
so we kind of made the drive. But a few months later we
made a trip down to Summrset with our friend Tyler Terry. Funnily enough,
that funny and the energy of you. He's very, uh, very skeptical.
But we uh, we were kind of looking at the map of like
places we wanted to visit and and funnily enough, we went to go and
meet Kyle Kadell because we're gonna do an interview with him, and uh,
we got sidetracked there because we found a house. I said, the call
the FBI. This town's a cult. So of course I like break into
the house. And the broad days did break That's a whole conversation. The
door walked in. Oh my god. So the the first night we drive
out there, we find we you know, we happened to find a cave.
And I'm not going to say the rogues. I don'tant a lot of
people to go out there because it's not exactly the most safe area. And
uh, we saw these weird lights dancing across the road and then Tyler,
Terry and I we were obsessed over this cave. We didn't care about the
lights in front of us. Brittany's la we can talk about it. It's
blocked off. Now, Okay, Well the cave that's on Strawberry Road outside
of Somerset, Ah, Yes, yes, yes, So I want to
know have you gone further back there? Because we made the decision that night
we went to the back of the cave and uh, we felt the same
rumbling. We heard what we thought were voices coming from deeper in the cave.
We did find out through uh Jason Rudder, who's a cave expert for
the state of Kentucky, that there is several bits of water that run through
that cave systems. That's that could explain the whispering voices that you might hear.
But the rumbling is something true. But the rumbling was something that we
both did experience. Have you gone further? Because I know, once you
use the back of that cave, there's a pretty steep inclined you can climb
up and over, But I don't know what's much further beyond. There's something
Yeah, well, i'll tell you, I'll tell you this much, and
this is something that is absolutely true, but not something that would be readily
out there in terms of information. Since that fairly as of we'll say this
this year, this past year, I've come to confirm what I've already speculated
about that cave and the ones that are near it. But that cave actually
connects to multiple that are undiscovered that no one's ever been inside of. So
that area not only has that cave in particular, not only has creature sighting
reports attached to it. In fact, there's other entrances that get into that
cave. But since that time, with the use of some modern technology,
it's been confirmed that there are other caves that go even further than what is
accessible at least at this moment in time physically, that go way way into
that into the earth there. So there's a whole string of a hidden network
that that connects to that people haven't been inside of yet. I'm sorry,
I have to hop in because I love that because we there's another there's another
cave, which this one's not blocked off, so we're not going to say
the location, but it's the one that's underneath the bridge. That one,
we went about as far into it as we thought you could go. Tyler
went all the way back to the to the lower shelving in the back.
Yeah, only to find out within the last month or so that that one
also is interconnected with other cave systems that but a collapse, but part of
it collapse at one point. So interesting. Yeah, and that's something interesting.
That's something that you know unless people are like say, studying it or
maybe even going into them, and not a whole lot of people are aware.
But when it comes to caves, there's there's a lot. It can
be common and it's interesting. It kind of adds to that, uh,
that mystique and that mystery where there are a lot of caves that are confirmed
to connect, uh, particularly a lot of the ones in Somerset in general
connect to each other in different ways. And the way they know that not
physically or when I say not physically is like you could they don't. They
don't. Yeah, they don't connect in a way that like people necessarily know
or like can physically get into. But there's a lot of you know,
experiments, people doing their studying these natural areas and hydrology where they'll inject or
poor die uh a really potent die into the waterways to see where it flows
uhha, and the look for resurgence areas. So like, there has already
been studies conducted in those areas that show a lot of those caves connect because
they've done the die tracing, so you know, die tracing is something cavers
do themselves even from time to time to see if there's possible openings. So
they know a lot of those areas connect. But it also furthers to illustrate,
you know, the mystery behind them too, where it's like, yeah,
they connect, but there's always openings or the potential for chambers and such
that people have never been inside of that. Who knows what they contain,
you know. And and that cave that's under the bridge has a lot of
weird holes in the wall that are like like you can put like an RC
car through them. And it actually really freaked me out when we first went
there, because I was like, if something's gonna crawl that cave, it's
gonna be a giant spider. No one, my luck siders and we don't
talk about that, but I've actually crawled up into the ceiling inside that cave
through one of those whole did you really? I know you didn't know,
Yeah, and it led funny enough, it led to one of the earlier
corridors that you're in, where like if you were to look way up into
the ceiling, you would have been able to see me up there. So
like it's there are ways around, you know, there's a lot of different
openings, you know in caves like that, a lot of different But that's
absolutely so. I guess since we're kind of we kind of have arrived here,
what were your thoughts as as season one kind of changed season two?
So there was one thing in particular that drove me crazy about hell here?
And I've been meaning to waiting to ask you this one question. That big
book that you referenced of newspaper clippings of cave sidings, UFOs and stuff.
I think you got it at the Mothman Festival. Where the hell is that
book? And why why did no one ever bring it up again? Well,
I don't know, it just never really became I guess it just never
really became relevant again. But yeah, what's weird about that? It was
a packet of reports and it's just really weird that kind of synchronicities that are
revolved around that, because it's, uh, you know, sometimes I wonder
if the whole point was just to have that phone call coming to like further
some kind of strange moment, But yeah, it was kind of It was
such an odd thing. So I don't know how many years back that would
have been. I can't. I don't know if that would have been twenty
It's either it's probably like twenty seventeen Mothman Festival, twenty seventeen probably or twenty
eighteen. I'd have to look at the date when they filmed. But yeah,
I was at the Mothman Festival and I happened to run into this gentleman.
I overheard him talking funny enough, which makes us kind of even weirder.
I was on the street and like anyone who's ever been to the Mothman
Festival knows, it's just a madhouse's hundreds of people everywhere, even sometimes up
until it's late, you know, and there's you know, and it gets
dark out, and it was dark out, and there's this guy just talking
to a group of people on the street about like how he had weird experiences
growing up in this sort of area. And funny enough, he originally some
of these experiences happened to when he lived were around where I am right now,
which is interesting. And I overheard him talk about how when he was
young, he noticed the pattern that there would always be strange things involving caverns
where his experiences occurred. And he talked about how when he was a kid,
he went inside of a cave that was at the edge of his property
and he found pieces of a deer that were ripped a part, but they
were laid out in like yeah, like the arms and legs, they were
all like placed in a line. Yeah, Like very strange. And he
talked about how he'd find like human like footprints in the cave, like bear
footprints, so really weird stuff. And he so like I ended up walking
up to him, like I'm curious about this, you know, and I
got to talking with him, and it was just so strange. This guy
was older too. He was a truck driver at least that's what he used
to do for a living. And he talked about how since he was a
kid, because of his own experiences, that's what got him onto thinking like
maybe these things come out of caves. And he said since that time,
Like as he grew up, he would collect odd reports that he heard about
that would revolve around mine's or caves, mine's caves or quarries. So this
packet of reports, it wasn't a book, but it was like snippets from
multiple books and like just random sources where whenever he would read some kind of
paranormal book and it mentioned how this thing happened in a quarry or happened in
your cave or a mind, he would take it out and add it to
the packet. And this was all just a stranger that I just happened over
here on the street. And I'm like, I'm like wow, I'm like
this is really interesting. I'm like, if you don't mind, I go,
is there a way to get like a copy of this? And he's
like yeah, sure, He's like give me your you know, info,
And I got his number, and you know, after I got his info,
you know, I didn't know if anything would come of it, and
like, you know, after I left the Mothman Festival, it was like,
I don't know, a week or two I want to say, like
I probably say in the dock when it happened, but uh, it was
weird. I pulled up. I pulled up to my local gym, and
I was just kind of sitting there in my car, and this weird thought
popped in my head where I'm like, I wonder what that guy's up to.
I should send him a message, or I should call him just to
like get on it and stay on it. Otherwise, Like I had low
expectations for ever getting this thing anyway. So I called the guy and he
picked up right away, and he's like, wow. He's like, it's
so strange that you called me just now. He's like, as your call
came in, he goes, I was literally texting you when you called me.
And I'm like, well, that's weird, and he's like yeah,
he's like I was literally just texting you to tell you that I sent it
out. So it was like because of that incident, I ended up I
ended up calling the crew that just happened to be, you know, filming,
you know, Season one, which that whole thing, Like I don't
know how many people are aware of this, but like part of the reason
why I'm not more, you know, you don't really see a whole lot
of me in season one is like Season one wasn't even expected to happen.
You know, like I knew of the new Kirksen and we were on friendly
terms then, but I was still you know, all getting to know everyone
at that point, and when that project first started. I think from there
end, it was just kind of like, well, let's just like roll
out there and kind of do recon just get a feel of it. But
like, so they knew I was interested in this stuff, and they knew
I had an interest in this for like years, but at the time,
they didn't think it was going to be any kind of big trip or a
big deal. So it's like, oh, hey, I don't worry about
it, like we're gonna check it out. But that trip that they were
on ended up becoming like all a season one. So the fact that this
kind of weird thing happened in this parking lot and that ended up having like
a strange significance to this kind of weird est method session they were doing on
that porch. You know, it is curious. That's always how it happens,
isn't it. It's not going to be a big deal. We're just
gonna go take a look. Nope. Right, the next three years of
your life is going to be dedicated to Kentucky. Watch it for sure,
for sure. But yeah, so that's kind of you know, what's up
with that packet. But you know that packet, it's not that it has
like any groundbreaking information in it. You know, it's interesting that it exists
for what it's worth and how it came to be, but there's nothing as
of yet that's like jumped out, you know, in that accumulation of snippets
that you know, is any kind of groundbreaking thing. So to answer your
question, it's just like there wasn't really anything in it that pertained to the
case. You know, there wasn't like it didn't it didn't offer anything that
was worth having, like a word blurb on you know that made the cut.
But it's you know, that's one of those things though that from the
outside, I think it's hard, you know, for some people to understand
when they watch a documentary though, it's like you're only really seeing snippets of
like a multitude of conversations that you don't see, you know what I mean,
Like like there's much more that happens off screen than what happens on screens.
Yeah, we did a documentary last year, same deal. We were
there for fourteen hours and we condensed that into an hour long, you know,
doc piece. So yeah, that's the something nobody gets to see.
Now, this is a question that's been uh, it's been burning for a
while for me. So when when season two kind of started popping off the
way that it did, I have never resonated with an on screen character more
than I did with you in that moment where you're like, no, let's
go right now, because because that's me. It's it's it's similar like when
we went to Waverley here recently. It got in my brain and it lived
there and it Yeah, we had Andy Colevin. We were having a conversation
with me. He's like, yeah, I know where in Andrew Cold's house
is. I'm like, yeah, send me the deats and he does.
Six hours later, we're in rural West Virginia. No, that was like
record time for us. That was like three hours. Yeah, because yeah,
because my fear was like, someone's gonna get there, spook the locals,
it's gonna be a problem. I just want to see I want to
see this. Does it feel similar to some of the other weird places we've
been so Andy Covin sends us like, hey, this is where it is
roughly. Actually, here's the GPS coordinates. So we're on our way and
got to experience. So I felt I knew exactly how you felt. And
you're like, no, let's let's freaking go. I go. There's you
know, nothing bad is gonna happen because you do kind of you remind me
of me in that way where it's like, in that moment, the draw
in the experience is so severe it nothing else seems to matter in that moment.
Now granted, but like we just talked about, you don't need to
see a lot of the off screen stuff. But the way that it was
poor trade, which was you know you wanted to go write that second?
What was that? Like? Sure? I mean, and then that goes
back to that thing, you know what I mentioned. It's like, you
know, obviously I do get excited, you know sometimes and it's yeah,
it's just that craving where it's like, you know, these things are already
so rare, and they have something where it's like why would you wait?
Like this it's telling you to go right, you know, And I still
have elements of that, you know, sometimes I think you know, maybe
there's certain things I shouldn't have been waited for. But you know, but
then other times, though, there's always a duality to that, where,
at least at this point in time, after gaining more experience and more knowledge
in these matters, I also think that there is something strange with the intention
of like there's some things that are time released and they end up do happening
if you do. It's very contradictory. There's certain things that happen I think
down the road that are meant to happen when you least expect them, and
it's not maybe the best time to go right away, because it's like the
phenomenon works in a very strange, non linear way, or at least not
in the way that is immediate as a straight line in the way that we
tend to think. But yeah, you know, like in those moments though,
having all this so fresh, you know, it's like it's such a
you know, it's already such an exhilarating topic. It's like, why wouldn't
I be obsessed with getting to see it? You know, like I wanted
that experience so bad, you know, all those like imaginative thoughts, you
know, enterugh, your head where it's like, am I gonna you know,
are we gonna get there? Are we going to see like creatures crawling
around inside of a cave? You know? You know, it's you get
you get into a really funny you know mindset, you know where. But
you know, obviously, like I said, now, it's like elements or
that of that are real back because I understand it's not so you know,
cut and dry, but it's uh, you know, you still get those
spikes of excitement, and it's like it's very hard to ignore. You know,
it's like a you know, it's beyond I don't want to use I
don't think the word discomfort is necessarily the right word, but it is that
that itching, that it's an itch that needs to be scratched and and and
it makes you insane. Maybe you have to you want to see it.
But you know, maybe that's just one of the hurdles of that practice of
patience. Perhaps though maybe maybe it is gaining the ability to not give into
excitement, even though I think that's part of it. But in that moment,
you know, however many years ago that's been now you know, that
was certainly the case in that moment, you know. But I think that's
what's interesting about these projects too, or at least just having something out there
that you know, people I don't know are watching. You know. It's
almost there's a lot of things that I think are hard for me to watch.
And that even goes through just mundane things that I even just think or
write or whatever. Is like, you know, I'm always changing, I'm
always growing. So it's like every every version of me that people think is
out there is not the version of me I am. Now. You know,
there's a lot that I've learned and I've grown from and and changed with,
you know, as these as these years have rolled on, you know,
and I'm certain that will continue. But yeah, in those moments,
it was like we gotta go, You got to go right now, all
right, Tyler. So as we're getting towards the end of our time here,
this question is on everyone's mind. Will there be a hell? You're
three? And I know that you're not in control of your time frame,
but will there be a hell? You're three? So people, because I
the amount of people who ask me, Bob, I know that you kind
of know Alan, can you ask him if he can, ask Greg if
he can ask Carl, are we gonna have Hell You're Three? Well,
what I can say is that there are already things filmed for what probably would
be in a Hell You're Three, So you know, I'm confident at some
point there likely will be. But as of when, is still the mystery
that is going to be unsatisfactory for all the curious minds until it, uh,
until it unfolds. But you know, I don't think you know,
when it comes to Hellier. It's a weird, tricky thing where everyone always
wants it, but it's one of those things where like the phenomena, it's
like we got to let the actual phenomena dictate that too, you know.
We there's certain strangeness that's you know, since you know, certain strange developments,
but it's just something. These things take time, you know, and
it's it's less about it's funny, you know, saying like oh, i's
ask Carl or ask Greg. It's like none of us are in control of
when there's gonna be a Hellier three. That's the thing in control of Hell
You're Three is the phenomena if it wants to knock and play the game again,
and that doesn't work when you want it to work, and it certainly
does not care about what the public wants in terms of something that they'll view
as a piece of entertainment. So it's you know, a matter of when
things present themselves, when something seemingly wants Hellier three to continue is kind of
what we're at the mercy at. But I'm confident that there will be,
because It's hell Here's not one of those things that ever ends, you know,
And I think to kind of go full circle, you know, with
all the things we talked about today, you know, it's hell Here's just
one fragment. It's a docuseries that looks at one fragment of a very large,
all encompassing phenomena, you know, and that phenomena presents itself in the
lives of many different people, in many different places, in many different ways.
And it's like, you know, people can look at Hellier as an
isolated thing for you know, some of these adventures or curiosities that we've gone
on, but at the end of the day, it's still a finite thing.
It's a small thing, and the act of just being someone who continues
to look into this by default is always going to make more of that come
out, you know, when it's meant to come out. You know,
I'm at a point like I don't necessarily view Hellier as you know, this
one project that just takes place in this one place. You know it has
it been so far, sure, But at the same time, you know,
it's it's just the phenomena itself, and when it comes out to play,
it comes out. You know that we're not we're not necessarily in charge
of that, which is why it's not it's not a scripted show that just
gets a bunch of seasons, you know, So it's you know, that's
I know it's not not necessarily a satisfactory answer, but it's an honest answer.
Well, you know, but that's been I'm certain that it will perfect.
Yeah. The only thing I wanted to add to that that the one
thing that's been very refreshing for me for this entire conversation is that how you're
as an idea, how you're as a project, or however you view it
has been just as transformative, if not more, for you and the group
has personally as it has been for all the people who have viewed it and
had life changing experiences from it. And I think that That's one thing a
lot of people don't take into the fact that if hell, you're truly is
an initiation as we have seen it in the past for us and our friends
and whoever else we talk with who who have experienced that, that it was
not only for the viewers benefit or experience, but also you guys as well,
and then it's been for you, you know, yeah, well one
hundred percent. And I think you know that's all part of that too,
is like, you know, this is just my personal take, but I'm
certain every individual person involved and not involved, you know, are still going
to experience their own personalized things, and a lot of times those things probably
should stay that way as personal. I don't think everything is supposed to be
filmed. I don't think everything is supposed to be talked about. I think
that there are certain things that, you know, when it feels right,
you know, that's what we'll try and put out there if it seems like
that's what this thing seemingly wants, you know, if we're even accurate in
that right. But it's you know, it is of course transformative in a
lot of different ways, but it's also a continuation of a transformation that's already
been occurring long before Hellier took place. And that's, you know, another
thing I want people to understand. And I'm not just saying this for myself.
I'm saying this for people who have maybe been inspired or found the topics
in hell You're interesting. Is like, don't let the themes and places in
Hellier be a be all or end all for you, And don't take everything
we say as gospel, because we're still just people too, trying to figure
stuff out. We're not infallible, clearly not. And one of the things
I want to add to that, you know, when it comes to like,
you know, a transformative experience, is that you know, I've had
things happen to me before Hellier, and I'm certain things will happen to me
long after Hellier has finished. Because Hellier is also not the be all end
all for me either. I have a whole history most people don't know about
of strangeness that predates Hellier by many years. Hellier wasn't my beginning. Hellier
is something that's happening along the way, and I hope that there's more people
who understand that in the long run too. Where Like you don't necessarily need
to go to all the same places. You don't need to explore all the
same themes or people, because like I said earlier, that's still the focus
that's going to make you lose the stuff that's happening to you. The actual
stuff that's happening to you hellier is a thing that will always happen because the
phenomena exists. And as such, that phenomena exists all around the globe,
and it exists in your own backyard. Don't let someone else's backyard make you
ignore what's happening right under your own nose. So it's a good thing that
this is transformative. But at the same time, I also hope that people
see that it's only just giving you ideas to inspire, at the very least,
show that the things you've been told about the nature of this phenomenon might
be a little more complex, it might be a little more mysterious than maybe
certain pop culture ideas have propagated thus far. And to me, that's all
I want of that project. You know, if that's all it does,
then it was no less an initiation in my opinion. But initiations, as
it implies, is only just the start. Don't let Hellier and all those
places be the end, because if that's what you're encompassing the phenomena into,
there is no beginning for you. You're still stuck. This stuff is everywhere
and it's accessible to all. This stuff is a part, in my opinion,
it's part of the human condition, and as such, it will always
remain It's it's not just in one place, and it's not just surrounding one
group of people or one kind of person. You know, there's a lot
of interesting stories out there, and there's a lot of interesting energies and people
to meet, and I'm sure there's there's a lot more wild experiences to come
that I can't even comprehend yet because they haven't happened yet, that might take
us to completely different places. You know. That's that's part of that,
that remaining open to things, you know, like, don't don't let the
places and people in hell Here be a closed circuit for you, I guess,
is what I'm trying to say. Tyler, I love that so much
because one of the biggest things that we have found is the importance of looking
in your own backyard. And Tyler Terry, the guy I mentioned earlier,
one of the biggest things that we looked at right away was we both both
grew up in a rural, small town Ohio, and we started reaching out
to people we went to high school with consistently saying like, Hey, did
you guys ever hear these stories about River Road growing up, because we all
kind of heard the same thing against small town Ohio about don't go out to
River Road. There's coultists in the woods that will grab you, there's sacrificing
children, there's a cave out there, there's this, there's that, There's
all these terrifying things occurring. Don't do that. And so one of the
biggest things for us was the importance of looking in your own backyard, like
it's phenomenal to go and meet people like Geraldine, to go to Point Pleasant,
to go to hell your meats. But it's another thing when you start
to notice the little bits of your own story that have been building up since
you were a child, and maybe you never paid any attention to it because
it didn't seem to fit in the the taps ghost hunter's realm that you grew
up in, you know, the Zach Baggins of the world. But then
when you get closer to the phenomenon. But as you get closer, you
do start to see like this stuff has been following you for a lot longer
than maybe you even understand, you've ever even considered, because you're so hyper
focused on what you think it should be, because someone else has told you
they're part of the story, and you never thought to sit down and discuss
your own part of the story. So sure, I guess my my last
question to you before we let you go, if someone was wanting they wanted
to get started on this, this path, this journey, apart from the
obvious go watch hell you're where, would you suggest someone to start that Maybe
they think this could be something that's that's that's there for them, but they're
not quite sure. You know, I think something that's really valuable is just
trying to source a lot of different information from a lot of different places,
like read read a boat, a lot of stuff that's not necessarily interesting right
away. And what I mean by that, and this is just another like
kind of overview statement on the phenomena, you know, like I know,
in the course of this conversation, you know, we've brought up, or
at least I've brought up you know, whether you know, different topics like
ghosts, UFOs, goblins, what have you. And in my opinion of
just looking at this stuff a long time, you know, I really do
think all that stuff is connected, and I think you can get a really
good appreciation for how strange this stuff becomes when you open yourself up to the
possibility that maybe those things are connected. So it's like when I first started
looking in the weird stuff as a kid, I thought UFOs and things were
really fascinating, but at the same time, it was never something that I
thought one could like act investigate. And the reason I say that is like,
if you take UFO experiences at like face value in the way that a
lot of people think about them, you know, it's like a sighting of
someone seeing something in a sky for a brief moment and then it goes away.
So it's like, what are you going to do. You're just going
to go to an open field and see the sky where something was, Like
that has nothing to do with where it went or what it was like.
There's not a whole lot to like go off of. There's not a whole
lot that's tangible or there aren't There isn't like a physical location that is like
the abode of the ufo. It's kind of like it's kind of like saying
you're going to investigate people by going to a place you saw a car drive
by the road. It's not going to actually tell you anything about what people
are. So there's always this kind of like intangible element to UFOs or as
fascinating as I found them as and as as mysterious as they were to me,
it was like, ah, but you know, you can't really explore
it. There's nothing to explore at least at least not at that point when
I you know, when I was a kid, and then when it came
so I always had an interest, but then when it came to things like
bigfoot, cryptids, whatever, all kinds of different cryptids, Bigfoot in particular,
I thought it was interesting, and it wasn't that I didn't believe in
it, but I also was never interested in bigfoot stuff initially because you know,
when you read these stories the way that they're written about and propagated,
you know through pop culture, a lot of that narrative is that it's some
undiscovered animal in the woods. It's the missing link. It's this thing and
that thing, and you know, you you hear a lot of people rationalize
how they could exist in this amount of number if they live in this kind
of habitat, and it's all spoken of through this very strictly physical ends,
and it's as you know, hearing that as a kid, I'm like,
well, you know, it's interesting. I wonder what it is. It's
not that I didn't believe in it, but it also didn't interest me at
first because I viewed it as like, well, even if it is real,
it's probably just an undiscovered animal, you know, Like that's the way
people talk about it, which means it's not like supernatural, which means it's
not necessarily like the stuff I'm interested in, Like I'm curious about like supernatural
elements. I'm not necessarily like I'm not like a zoology outdoors person, you
know, not when I was a kid, so I kind of ignored a
lot of that stuff. So it's not until like, you know, for
the most part, you know, when I was in high school and such,
apart from like kind of like weirder occult type topics, you know,
a lot of that stuff kind of still held true to like ghost phenomena,
and I think that was really popular for a lot of people, which is
why a lot of people had ghost hunting groups, is because it was like
something tangible in a way where it gave people a physical location to get to,
and it seemed isolated where it's not like a big Foot where it's like
or UFO, where you're going to a place where it used to be.
You're going to a place where you believe it is right now, And there
was that kind of excitement there. There's a way that people interacted with it,
and I think that's why, for the most part, a lot of
people who are in the paranormal stuff tend to be people who are in the
ghosts and ghost hunting. So to get to the question, which I understand
is like long winded, it wasn't until I started digging into like say,
the high strange and stuff, which I think might be hard you know,
to tackle if you start off with it. But it's not until you see
stuff repeat or you get and hear the right reports that you start to understand
that, like all that sort of stuff is weird, Like Bigfoot's actually weirder
than that narrative of it being like a monkey in the woods, and maybe
UFOs aren't coming from space. Maybe sometimes they're coming from underground, or people
are seeing them come from underground, or they're leading to places that are terrestrial
to our own planet. And then in between all that, maybe all of
those things are sort of like ghosts. So even when it comes to hunting
ghosts, how do you really know you're talking to something that you think is
a person. I think there's a lot of hauntings that aren't people that I
think people believe are. I think all this stuff is a lot stranger.
So, you know, one of the things I'd recommend for people starting out
is just be open to reading about all that stuff, but kind of have
like a arm's length point of view, like just a small step back,
and try and look for the little things that repeat in all of them,
because there are things that repeat, and there's a lot of similar things that
repeat in these stories, you know. But I'd also seek out, you
know, writings that kind of focus on high strangeness things like you know,
I know, for me, reading something even just like the Mothman Prophecies and
as a kid was really influential, you know, And that's a good book
that illustrates too how pop culture kind of distorts the viewpoints of what these things
are, because whenever you bring up Point Pleasant, people only really think about
the Mothman. We're like, oh, yeah, that's where people saw the
mothmn And what they don't realize is, like the Mothman was like almost the
least strange thing that was happening around that point of time. Most of the
stuff that happened in Point Pleasant that pertained the Mothman was UFO activity and weird
Man in Black Encounters and like Man in Black Encounters which would lead to ghostly
events inside of people's houses. Like there was so much weird stuff happening in
Point Pleasant, like the moth Man is this one element of it. And
yet I would argue there's probably a lot of people who like the Mothman and
that story that don't even know about that because all they hear about on these
shows is like, Mothman's really scary. Let's focus on that and talk about
people seeing a creature. People like creatures, and it completely overshadows this weirder,
interconnected element of like, well, actually there are a lot of people
who saw UFOs in their backyard and like UFOs were touching down and it was
so prominent there were literally troops of people going out at night and point pleasant
hunting UFOs that they were seeing flying over hilltops and stuff like. That's crazy.
And the fact that most shows that are about the Mofman don't talk about
that shows how misconstrued all these things are and how limited the viewpoints on the
surface are. And it doesn't help that, like there's a lot of bad
books out there that also will only focus on those things because they're salacious or
intriguing because there's a monster in the story. So try and Like it's a
difficult question because it's not an easy thing to get into, because it's kind
of a mess if we're going to be honest. So all I can say
is like, do your best to kind of like be skeptical, but go
in trying to and I'm not even trying to convince someone of this, Like
don't listen to me either, but try and see if it even happens for
you. Try and look for the patterns of this stuff, the way people
feel when they have these experiences, whether or not they saw anything weird that
happened beforehand, or just source a lot of info from different places, you
know, read about Bigfoot, read about UFOs read about fairy lore. I
would recommend reading a lot about fairy law because I think that actually ties in
to a lot of this stuff. And you know, read about ghosts,
but kind of see that there's a lot of overlap in these things. So
even if you're reading a book that might even you know, be biased towards
you know, a certain viewpoint, like I don't know, just seek out
strangeness factors and if it doesn't resonate with you, then don't stress it.
Just embrace things from a genuine curiosity point of view, and I think things
will work out for you in the end, you know. And I'm not
even as someone involved in it, like listen, I don't know what's going
on myself, which is why it's like, you know, it's almost even
embarrassing for me to be like, oh yeah, start with Hellier. I
would never even recommend Hellier as a start point, believe it or not,
because it's like, you know, hell here is a weird, complex thing
too that that might not be you know, the easiest material to digest it.
Just start start off anywhere, I guess, you know, because I
think I think if you're intellectually honest about the strangeness that's in between the lines
of reports and how they don't add up to the public narratives by default.
No matter where you start pulling the thread, like, you're gonna end up
unraveling the whole thing if you're honest about just thinking critically about things and being
open to their being alternative explanations or alternative truths to the complexity that these things
can give. And you know, I'm sure I'm repeating myself, so I'm
sorry for the long winded day. No, I don't. I don't have
a great answer for starting out, you know, other than be open to
possibilities and don't listen to the dogmatic beliefs of like this is what this is,
this is what that is, because I'm certain, I am certain most
of them are wrong. Uh, but that's not to say I know the
answers, you know, And I think that's important. We're also don't we're
all students, and don't be very wary of the people who claim to have
the answers, if not outright, Just to not listen to those kinds of
people, I think that's that's probably the best way you get in that possibly,
Tyler and we we we appreciate the time. I mean, seriously,
thanks for getting back to us, Thanks for coming on. I know you
weren't feeling super great today. I think you said you were foggy when we're
talking on Instagram, So I just tired. I'm feeling good though, I'm
feeling fine. I always perk up when when I ended up talking, I
was just like, I just wanted. I was just told being that I
would have decent responses for you because I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want
to not contribute to something. You know, that can lead to interesting discussion
as all. That's that's that was my only concern is like I didn't I
didn't want to not give you guys something that someone can work with. I
guess. Oh no, you did an amazing job and this has been an
awesome interview. Yeah, so thank you so much, Tyler, and want
to have you back on in the future so we can talk about all your
weird health. Yeah, that's something that I'm excited to talk to you about.
So again, thank you so much. Yeah, sure thing, Thank
you guys. Thanks for having me Brittany. I'll be honest, that kind
of felt like a long time coming, right, Yeah, and I do
find this interesting. This is something that like, I'm glad this is like
our first episode back in a minute, because this to me outlined a lot
of how I've been feeling lately that things have changed. I have changed,
We're getting well, we're getting back to our roots. Were so much further
away from where we were when we started, and I think that's important for
us to have a nice reflect Yes, a reflection was with a like minded
person who can kind of put this in perspective for us as well, like,
Hey, it's okay that you're feeling this way, because it's something that
we've discussed a lot privately, like is this still for us, not necessarily
as podcasting or as high stranges, but is the way that we're approaching this
still for us? And it's nice to hear that it's okay. Yeah.
So with that being said, Misspring, and let's see anything else that you
would like to add. I do not. I think we're have to add
this episode of Our Strange World with Tyler Strand to our never ending but are
always Growing tails from the dark a