1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,839 Yeah, it's funny. I gave a little bit of a profile of sort 2 00:00:04,839 --> 00:00:08,279 of what I saw inside eBay in my book The PayPal Wars, I talked 3 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:14,359 about their culture being really different, that Elon and Peter and Max levchin At 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:20,280 built a culture of execution, of working hard and working fast and trying things 5 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,199 out, listening to our customers and build it vents. Even at quite the 6 00:00:23,199 --> 00:00:26,879 opposite, they had very bureaucratic culture, which was a surprise for dot com. 7 00:00:27,079 --> 00:00:32,200 You are listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network where you get valuable information 8 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:37,679 you just can't find anywhere else to thrive in today's trying times. You need 9 00:00:37,719 --> 00:00:44,280 the Financial Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:51,000 and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial Survival Network now more than ever. 11 00:00:54,439 --> 00:00:59,320 Welcome. You are watching and listening to the Financial Survival Network of Carrie 12 00:00:59,399 --> 00:01:03,560 Luttz. Hey, it's mid October. We made it so far without a 13 00:01:03,599 --> 00:01:07,879 crash. How much longer that will go? Your guest is as good as 14 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:14,799 mine, but got really interesting guest here for you, Eric Jackson. He 15 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:19,560 is the author of a book PayPal Ores, and he was in the thick 16 00:01:19,599 --> 00:01:26,000 of things when PayPal was becoming a major brand and Elon Musk and his partners 17 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,719 were fighting it out of Eric's great to have you on the show. So 18 00:01:32,439 --> 00:01:37,280 you found yourself kind of an observer and a participant to history, but you 19 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,439 didn't really know it was history when that was happening until till much later. 20 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,280 That's right, Kerry, and thank you for having me today. Yeah, 21 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:49,159 it was incredible to be part of the creation of PayPal in those early years, 22 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,640 and to look at all the people I worked alongside, you know, 23 00:01:51,719 --> 00:01:57,799 not just Elon Musk, but also Peter Tail and Max Lovechen and went on 24 00:01:57,959 --> 00:02:02,280 to start a firm and he was the chairman of the Alp Reid Hoffman who 25 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:07,640 started linked In, David Sacks. Yeah, it's just the list goes on 26 00:02:07,719 --> 00:02:09,319 and on and on. So it's really incredible to look back at it. 27 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:14,000 The founder's of YouTube as well, So just to be the middle of that 28 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,680 was amazing, and it worked with all those people was also amazing. But 29 00:02:17,759 --> 00:02:23,080 yeah, you can never know that it was such a historical company right in 30 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,800 the middle of it. You just trying, you just try to do your 31 00:02:25,879 --> 00:02:32,159 job and also build a business. I know it was an attorney and in 32 00:02:32,159 --> 00:02:37,039 two thousand, I actually got called up by Donald Trump to handle some cases 33 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,439 far not knowing that one day the guy was going to be president. So 34 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:45,800 it's only when you connect the decks that connect the dots backward, as Steve 35 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:50,960 Jobs said, that you see the significance of it. Hey, so uh 36 00:02:51,879 --> 00:02:57,439 in this place, this is before everybody made their billionings. Right. Elon 37 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,120 eventually, I'm going to skip to the end, had a falling out with 38 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:05,439 them, and he left. But he was smart. He didn't burn bridges 39 00:03:05,479 --> 00:03:12,759 because they all became investors and they worked within on his successive enterprises SpaceX and 40 00:03:13,319 --> 00:03:19,919 Tesla and Boring Company and Neurallink, and I don't know if you can probably 41 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:23,759 think of a couple others that I missed here. So that's you got these 42 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:30,360 really strong personalities and they're kind of bumping heads together, but they must have 43 00:03:30,479 --> 00:03:38,120 bet a measure of respect on all parts for them to wind up investing together 44 00:03:38,159 --> 00:03:42,680 and working together again. That's actinally right, carry And you're right that there 45 00:03:42,759 --> 00:03:46,520 was some conflict, as there often is when you're trying to pursue anything worthwhile. 46 00:03:47,159 --> 00:03:53,560 And Elon and just for contacts, Peter Tiil had started a company called 47 00:03:53,599 --> 00:04:00,439 Confinity and it's that's a company they created his PayPal software and Elon, whose 48 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,560 office was just down the street. They were neighbors on University Avenue in Palo 49 00:04:03,639 --> 00:04:08,159 Alto. His company was called X dot com. Now that name is going 50 00:04:08,199 --> 00:04:12,280 to sound familiar to viewers, even if they don't remember the original. Yeah, 51 00:04:12,319 --> 00:04:15,839 the original online bank that Elon informed, uh, they'll they'll think of 52 00:04:15,839 --> 00:04:19,519 Twitter, and it was recently rebranded as ex Uh. So you can see 53 00:04:19,519 --> 00:04:26,639 a pattern their spacexx dot com and now Twitter and and so Elon Elon had 54 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:30,399 a vision for the company. After the two companies merged and and uh it 55 00:04:30,519 --> 00:04:34,600 ran into some conflict with with some other members of the team. And I'll 56 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:40,079 be happy to describe that to you. But the point in jamaking is that 57 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:46,319 even though that that happened, uh, there there was resolution and there also 58 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,279 was an understanding that, hey, we've got to all work together here. 59 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:54,279 So Elon, to his credit, after leaving the CEO role, stayed a 60 00:04:54,879 --> 00:04:58,040 helpful active member of the board. And I know that Peter til when he 61 00:04:58,079 --> 00:05:00,560 took over the CEO role, can alter with Elon a number of things, 62 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,399 especially around the exit strategy for the company. So they mended fences pretty quickly 63 00:05:05,439 --> 00:05:09,439 and then insuing years. Yeah, you're right. I know founder Spond, 64 00:05:09,519 --> 00:05:15,240 which is a VC firm associated with with Peel invested in SpaceX among other investments. 65 00:05:15,319 --> 00:05:19,040 So you're right that collaboration, you know, continued and fences were mended 66 00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:24,079 and people work together to this day. There's still good relationships, right, 67 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,399 So I find that interest thing. So Elon's vision was this was going to 68 00:05:28,439 --> 00:05:34,480 be a global financial enterprise basically take over the whole banking sector and do things 69 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:43,720 more efficiently and effectively faster. All this because before Petticyle it was really difficult 70 00:05:43,759 --> 00:05:49,120 to send money. You did have ach transfers I guess beginning, and you 71 00:05:49,199 --> 00:05:55,759 had finwire and some private bank wires, but otherwise to send peer to peer, 72 00:05:56,079 --> 00:06:00,040 for me to send ten bucks to you Eric was like enormously expensive and 73 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,959 inefficient. Yeah, people forget about that today, right, You've also got 74 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:09,480 Venmo and zell and other options. Now today it seems like it's so easy 75 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,959 and ubiquitous, you just pull out your phone and do it. But you 76 00:06:12,959 --> 00:06:16,720 know, twenty plus years ago it actually was really quite hard. And with 77 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:19,560 the dawn of the Internet, at the down of the Web, I should 78 00:06:19,639 --> 00:06:26,319 say, you started having online commerce, particularly for small businesses, all right 79 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,160 out of platforms like eBay. Well, that was great that they could do 80 00:06:30,279 --> 00:06:35,199 the selling online, but then to actually handle the payment it was completely all 81 00:06:35,199 --> 00:06:42,720 of live you buy to mail checks and money orders for things that were sold 82 00:06:42,759 --> 00:06:46,600 on eBay and and eBay. While the hobbyist idea was very popular right at 83 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:51,560 beanie babies and pet dispensers, it was really small businesses getting on there and 84 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:56,600 selling their merchandise that made it take off. But that was a pain point. 85 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:01,279 It hurt everyone to have that lag in the convenience, the cost associated 86 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:06,639 with it, record keeping was worse. Disputes can arise, So hayfoul showing 87 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:12,279 up radically changed things for that market, but also had the potential to change 88 00:07:12,279 --> 00:07:15,399 it in a lot of other markets too. And this was the vision that 89 00:07:15,439 --> 00:07:18,959 Peter Thiel and Max Lepchin had when they started Infinity, which was better known 90 00:07:18,959 --> 00:07:24,639 as PayPal, that they wanted to have a system that empowered people. That 91 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,000 was a big and very important thing for them. Carrie, I remember the 92 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,279 first week I got there Peter and I've known Peter from my days at Stanford. 93 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:36,040 He was kind of an alumni mentor at the time, and so he'd 94 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,839 started this company. I'd stayed in touch with him. I was working in 95 00:07:39,879 --> 00:07:43,720 financial consulting. He told me, hey, why don't you come on board. 96 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,639 We're getting ready to scale up. We're doing adventure capital round. We 97 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,199 need you to start, and you should start really soon. So he actually 98 00:07:50,279 --> 00:07:56,560 convinced me to tell my respected employer there was one hundred year old company at 99 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,879 sixty thousand employees worldwide, that I should jump ship and leave to come work 100 00:08:00,879 --> 00:08:03,319 at this little startup. I didn't even know what my job would be. 101 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:07,959 I just knew that they were going places. So but well, I look 102 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,959 a lot smarter than I am when I just say that the company I left 103 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,360 was Arthur Anderson, and the company I went to, well, you know, 104 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,199 turned out to be a success. Yeah, And students of history that 105 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:24,319 might be younger than us, well, well, perhaps have come across the 106 00:08:24,399 --> 00:08:26,319 name Arthur Anderson. It was a big six accounting firm at the time, 107 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:30,720 and it was taken down the Interron scandal just a couple of years after I 108 00:08:30,839 --> 00:08:35,919 lapsed. So good good timing is everything, all right, But I'll mention 109 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:39,679 that that vision though that Peter and Max had for PayPal, it was empower 110 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:43,039 people. This was you know, after through the mid to late nineties, 111 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,480 you had currency contagions in much of the developed world. You'll remember that, 112 00:08:48,759 --> 00:08:54,120 right, that this recurring problem. Yeah, of countries they've been manipulating their 113 00:08:54,159 --> 00:08:58,480 exchange rates and their interest rates. You can't control both, you can only 114 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:05,440 do one and and and uh. They came under fire and frequently had to 115 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,159 defend their currencies, have a run on the currency. Uh. And as 116 00:09:09,159 --> 00:09:13,440 a result, a lot of times these these countries would actually lock up the 117 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,840 deposits of their own citizens and bank accounts to keep keep pressure off the local 118 00:09:18,879 --> 00:09:22,240 currency. And so they'd eventually get screwed, as you know, the common 119 00:09:22,279 --> 00:09:28,799 man always does, because the you know, they'd unleash this hyperinflation and it 120 00:09:28,799 --> 00:09:33,840 would destroy their savings that was sitting there untouchable. So it was a you 121 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,960 know, pretty pretty bleaks h environment. And Peter and Max realized, hey, 122 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,960 you know, something like PayPal that can empower people to move their money 123 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:46,080 and give them instant access could be a game changer around the world and also 124 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:50,240 give people a lot more freedom and control. There's a real vision of freedom 125 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:54,600 there that that was the origin for PayPal. Yeah, and now we've got 126 00:09:54,639 --> 00:09:58,480 to hundreds of different apps, you know, peer to peer transfer, money 127 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:05,440 transfer in the full life, and we got to cryptocurrencies as well. Yeah. 128 00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:07,919 Hey, so you knew all the parties, all the major players here. 129 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:16,759 And so even though the Elon left under maybe less than positive circumstances, 130 00:10:16,919 --> 00:10:20,480 he made the decision to leave, he wasn't fired, was he. Well, 131 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:26,519 it was a it was a pretty uh pretty contentious uh uh, I 132 00:10:26,519 --> 00:10:31,360 guess it pends who you asked, right, So the the things came to 133 00:10:31,399 --> 00:10:35,919 a head because Elon Elon is very sure of himself. I think that's not 134 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,840 gonna be shocked. You mentioned you've got you're familiar with the Walter Isaacson book 135 00:10:39,919 --> 00:10:43,759 on him, and and I'm sure those of your your listeners that have followed 136 00:10:43,759 --> 00:10:48,679 his career know that he's pretty confident. So his vision was he wanted to 137 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,480 relaunch the PayPal platform, which was after the merger of the two companies, 138 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,039 relaunch it and brand it with the X brand. And like you said, 139 00:10:56,080 --> 00:11:00,000 he wanted to have a financial platform there was kind of a one stop shot 140 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,440 that handled everything. This is not too different from his vision for Twitter that 141 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:09,440 he's in the process of implementing. And because of that though he had all 142 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,679 development frozen on PayPal, he wanted to recreate it, build it on a 143 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:18,960 different platform. I will go out all the details, but it's a Unix 144 00:11:18,039 --> 00:11:22,120 versus Windows and T debate at the time, like which software do you have 145 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:30,840 it run on top of? And so the point was that he actually was 146 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:35,159 focused on this, this big overhaul and the time when the company was burning 147 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,039 ten million dollars a month. This was in two thousand, after the dot 148 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,320 com crash, it was harder and harder for startups to raise money. We 149 00:11:43,399 --> 00:11:46,679 had to get our business plan working, but yet we were losing millions of 150 00:11:46,679 --> 00:11:52,240 dollars every month due to fraud. We had people they weren't hacking PayPal, 151 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,799 they were just walking in through the front door and using it to to trick 152 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,519 people to send them money, or taking stolen credit cards that they got from 153 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:05,759 the black market uh and then redeeming catching him in and taking money out of 154 00:12:05,759 --> 00:12:11,759 PayPal. So we had we had like a really significant broad loss, it's 155 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,240 like three hundred basis points UH to fraud. And then we also were losing 156 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,159 money on credit card piece because people were using credit cards to fund these payments. 157 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:22,840 So we had to we had to turn the business model around. Instead, 158 00:12:22,879 --> 00:12:28,200 we were stuck, uh trying to recreate the wheel. And that was 159 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:33,039 a big part of the debate that led to UH to Elon leaving. And 160 00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:37,639 but again I want to emphasize he played a productive role after he left. 161 00:12:37,799 --> 00:12:45,320 So Peter took over UH and decided to keep the PayPal name, which a 162 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,200 lot of us, myself included thought made sense time because it had some brand 163 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:54,919 power, some brand cachet already and Uh Elon h Elon state a member of 164 00:12:54,960 --> 00:13:00,879 the board and then amusingly, years later, bought that extra dot com domain 165 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:05,799 from eBay. This is after eBay acquired PayPal. They own owned PayPal for 166 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,720 about a decade decade and a half before spending them off as a separate company 167 00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:15,240 again. So that domain, that x dot com domain eventually wound found its 168 00:13:15,279 --> 00:13:20,279 way back to Elon and Uh he's uh dusted off as old playboker and he's 169 00:13:20,159 --> 00:13:24,919 seemingly on the road implemented or try to implement his new model. They were 170 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:31,720 you pittypal when eBay acquired it. I was, I was, and it 171 00:13:31,759 --> 00:13:35,320 was it was a big It was a big shock in a way because they 172 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,120 had talked with us a couple of times about by the company, but it 173 00:13:39,159 --> 00:13:41,840 never worked out. So I think most of us had already written off that 174 00:13:41,919 --> 00:13:46,279 it would happen. But PayPal at that point had gone public. Uh. 175 00:13:46,279 --> 00:13:50,360 PayPal actually the first I po after nine to eleven for dot com. That 176 00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:56,000 was a pretty significant thing. That was back in February of two, and 177 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:01,200 it was it was trading, but the market was weak or pretty soft in 178 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:07,480 time, and it was we just we increasingly had a couple of different pressures 179 00:14:07,519 --> 00:14:11,679 on our company. So first of all, we had a high dependence on 180 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:16,519 eBay. We had about sixty seventy percent of our payment volume was coming from 181 00:14:16,519 --> 00:14:20,919 sellers on their platform. And eBay wasn't that fought of PayPal. They had 182 00:14:20,919 --> 00:14:26,080 an in house tool called bill Point that they had not launched wells Fargo, 183 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:28,399 and they tried to preference them, but it was just an inferior product. 184 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,679 So people of the market are chosen PayPal, but that's a bit precarious, 185 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,799 even though there's some mutual dependency there. And then second thing, we had 186 00:14:35,799 --> 00:14:41,840 regulators coming after U Slept and Ride Carrie. It was amazing and maybe it's 187 00:14:41,879 --> 00:14:46,480 not that surprising because we've seen some of this play out with crypto in recent 188 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:50,600 years, just kind of shoot first, asked questions later for a lot of 189 00:14:50,679 --> 00:14:56,320 regulators, and they're not necessarily concerned about the welfare of the people. They're 190 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:01,879 more concerned about doing their job. PayPal was novel tech, like you mentioned, 191 00:15:01,919 --> 00:15:03,799 people didn't really know what to make of it. So instead of working 192 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:09,559 with the company to make sure that state guards were taken and people's money was 193 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,120 safe, which it was, a lot of the regulators said we, oh, 194 00:15:13,159 --> 00:15:13,960 we don't know what you are, so we're just going to come after 195 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:18,559 and get you. And for example, the state of Louisiana, of all 196 00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:24,879 places, said PayPal seasoned desist notice and it was just ridiculous because they didn't 197 00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:28,039 know what our classification was or is it a bank, is it a money 198 00:15:28,039 --> 00:15:33,519 transmission service? Uh? So you know they sent us a cease and desist 199 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:39,120 letter. Well we we had uh we shared that information with all of our 200 00:15:39,519 --> 00:15:43,679 customers from Louisiana, telling them that that they were about to be cut off 201 00:15:43,679 --> 00:15:46,279 from their valuable PayPal account. But if they thought that was a bad decision, 202 00:15:46,559 --> 00:15:50,720 here's the phone number of the regulator. So the next day and they're 203 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:56,519 switchboard melted down and they they recanted, they decided to work something out with 204 00:15:56,639 --> 00:16:00,320 us. So that was but that was it. That that one turned out 205 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:03,840 well for the company. But we had a lot of other pressure on us 206 00:16:03,879 --> 00:16:07,960 as well, so that that's what drove us to be uh to be acquired 207 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:11,679 and accept the offer from eBay. Yeah. Then even they just could never 208 00:16:11,759 --> 00:16:17,320 figure out what to do with PayPal. Yeah, it's funny. I gave 209 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,320 a little bit of a profile of of sort of what I saw inside eBay 210 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:25,480 in my book The PayPal Wars. I talked about their culture being really different 211 00:16:25,679 --> 00:16:30,759 that Elon and Peter and Max Levchin had built a culture of of execution, 212 00:16:30,919 --> 00:16:36,200 of working hard and working fast and trying things out, listening to our customers 213 00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:38,440 and building things. Even at quite the opposite, they had a very bureaucratic 214 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:44,159 culture, which was a surprise for dot com but uh, Elli, yeah, 215 00:16:44,240 --> 00:16:48,679 yeah they were. They were reorguing every year, so people didn't know 216 00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:51,759 like who their next boss was going to be. They want to you know, 217 00:16:51,799 --> 00:16:55,480 you had an incentive it inside to attach yourself to as many projects as 218 00:16:55,519 --> 00:16:59,519 possible to be visible. It made things very bureaucratic, lots of meetings, 219 00:16:59,559 --> 00:17:03,359 lots of live decks instead of doing a you know, a numerical analysis on 220 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,799 a spreadsheet to make your case and a few bullet points. It's kind of 221 00:17:07,799 --> 00:17:11,079 the way we did things at PayPal, you know, hash things out in 222 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:14,680 a week or two with eBay as always, you know, in less, 223 00:17:14,799 --> 00:17:18,640 in less round of discussions. So I could tell from the culture early on 224 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,279 that it was gonna be pretty different. And as a result, a lot 225 00:17:21,279 --> 00:17:25,319 of the good uh, A lot of folks at PayPal, like myself left 226 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:30,400 in the ear or two following the merger. And interestingly though, because PayPal 227 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,279 had a better culture, a lot of eBay's people came over to PayPal, 228 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:37,640 the ones that were a little bit more you know, brighter and more ambitious. 229 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:41,279 So they had decent talent come in for a while there. But over 230 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,559 time, yeah, PayPal just grew and became bigger than the eBay and they 231 00:17:44,599 --> 00:17:48,400 had to spend the company off again. Yeah, they just never seemed to 232 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,400 do what they were doing. Was it now they could again they go back 233 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:56,519 to have their own payment system and actually seems to work better. I still 234 00:17:56,519 --> 00:18:03,079 think PayPal is probably better, but you know, interesting, so everything old 235 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:06,839 is new again, Carrie, I feel like we're in the nineteen seventies. 236 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:11,079 So yeah, why not go back to the late nineties on eBay? Why 237 00:18:11,119 --> 00:18:15,039 not? And now you look where Musk is, all right, you look 238 00:18:15,079 --> 00:18:21,400 where the others are. Basically they're still working together. You know, does 239 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,519 this all surprise you? No? No, In fact, I think with 240 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,880 hindsight it makes a lot of sense. But even at the time, there 241 00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,400 was there was a strong bond for all of us. I call my book 242 00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:36,599 the PayPal Wars for a reason. It was really hard to get this company 243 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:41,240 started. It was tumultuous, and like any experience, it's a share experience 244 00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:45,680 for people. There's the bonds. You learn to trust each other's judgment. 245 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:48,519 You can appreciate, you know, going through the ups and downs. We 246 00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:53,200 had a culture that really encouraged people to innovate, take risks, but also 247 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:56,640 you know, be accountable if you make a mistake, just gowing up to 248 00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,680 it and you know, move on. That kind of culture, I think 249 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,440 as well as just the really good people that got recruited. I mean, 250 00:19:04,839 --> 00:19:10,559 you know, think about people like Peter t Elon, Musk and read Open 251 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:14,759 who started LinkedIn, Max Louchon who started to affirm. All these people, 252 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:21,119 you know, they've been successful because they are real visionary leaders, and that's 253 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,359 that's evident to people that you know, are looking for a place to work. 254 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,880 So a talent attracts a talent, and so I think that was another 255 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,279 ingredient as to why this PayPal maffia as people like to call it as formed. 256 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,480 So one of the things Isaacson says in his book about Muss, he's 257 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:49,599 similar to Steve Jobs and his lack of delicacy or diplomacy and dealing with people 258 00:19:49,599 --> 00:19:53,680 they just see, he sees bad cold, he just says that sucks and 259 00:19:55,039 --> 00:19:57,880 do better. But he gets people to do better than they ever believed that 260 00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:02,839 they could. He gets more of them than they ever believed they had to 261 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,839 put out. I think that's a reasonable description. Elon was very, very 262 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,000 demanding, not necessarily in a bad way, because that that is part of 263 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:15,599 what the company needed, and he wanted the company to move faster and really 264 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:21,519 overcome some of the hiccups that they came around from, you know, merging 265 00:20:21,559 --> 00:20:26,920 two companies together. So that that kind of you know, it is it 266 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,440 is a little ruthless, I guess you could you could say that, but 267 00:20:30,519 --> 00:20:33,720 I mean the flip side of it is, you know, that's that's who 268 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,160 he is. That's how he's gotten to where he's gotten, and nobody should 269 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:41,920 have any expectations of the contrary at this point. But you can see it 270 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:45,359 even early in his career, even back in those pay Pal days, a 271 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:49,119 lot of those attributes were already there, and you know, for good reason. 272 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:53,400 I think it's served him well in the years since. Yeah, So 273 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:57,480 if you want to, if you want to make an omelet, you've got 274 00:20:57,519 --> 00:21:03,440 to break some etings. And he's not afraid to, that's for sure. 275 00:21:03,799 --> 00:21:08,759 All Right. Well, hey, it's been a fascinating discussion here. I 276 00:21:08,799 --> 00:21:15,079 guess we find PayPal PayPal wars wherever find books used to be sold, Yes, 277 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:22,880 and it's now Amazon. Yeah, Amazon and Barnes and Noble their website 278 00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,720 Books the Million. You can go to PayPal wars dot com to learn more 279 00:21:26,759 --> 00:21:32,160 and find links to all the retailers. Excellent, and that link is in 280 00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:37,079 the show notes to this interview on Financial Survival Network dot com. When you're 281 00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:41,160 there, sign up for your free newsletter. Got questioned or Eric or myself? 282 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,319 You're getting a real insider's perspective. A lot of people say they were 283 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:51,839 on the inside. Ict really was before Elon Musk was Elon Musk. I 284 00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,759 mean, I know somebody owns a Hedge fund, well known household word. 285 00:21:56,759 --> 00:22:02,200 We're probably twenty thirty billion now and I always refer to and say I knew 286 00:22:02,279 --> 00:22:06,799 him before he made his first billion. And that's certainly the case for you. 287 00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,240 Eric, I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna borrow that, Carrie, thank you. 288 00:22:10,559 --> 00:22:14,880 Yeah, all right, they just give attribution. It's okay to borrow 289 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,400 all leads to attribute it. But no, just kidding, But hey, 290 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,119 you knew Elon before he made his first billion, before he made his first 291 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,079 ten billion, before he made his first one hundred billion, right, so 292 00:22:26,079 --> 00:22:30,519 that's something. And you haven't forgotten them either. That's the one takeaway I 293 00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:36,960 get from people who know Elon from the early days. You don't forget that 294 00:22:37,079 --> 00:22:41,200 Sky, absolutely not. He and also Peter Peter Thal are memorable and have 295 00:22:41,279 --> 00:22:45,480 done a lot for a lot for the country. All Right, On that 296 00:22:45,559 --> 00:22:49,200 note, Hey, questions comments for Eric myself kl at Carrie Let's dot com 297 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:52,079 and get you an answer. Eric got a pleasure, Thanks so much for 298 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:57,079 coming on. Thank you, carry thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival 299 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:03,599 Network. Your solution to day's trying times For the latest, go to Financial 300 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:08,279 Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more than ever