WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.280 --> 00:00:06.879 In this week's episode, Donald and I discuss the societal expectations and gender norms 2 00:00:06.919 --> 00:00:14.439 that often hinder men from expressing vulnerability and seeking emotional support. We examine why 3 00:00:14.439 --> 00:00:19.320 it is crucial for men to express their emotions and make self care a priority 4 00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:26.199 in order to achieve optimal well being. Additionally, we discuss the importance of 5 00:00:26.280 --> 00:00:31.239 paying attention to red flags, hold to best support men in your life who 6 00:00:31.320 --> 00:00:37.200 may be struggling with emotional difficulties, and so much more. Join us as 7 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:44.119 we discuss the often overlooked and misunderstood turin of men's emotions, the importance of 8 00:00:44.200 --> 00:00:50.079 self care in maintaining mental health, and explore how we can all contribute to 9 00:00:50.119 --> 00:00:56.520 a society that is supportive and empathetic of one's emotions, regardless of their gender. 10 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.880 If you're listening to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, please remember to rate 11 00:01:02.399 --> 00:01:07.040 and leave a comment below. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram 12 00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:11.920 at Let's Talk to Things Now. Grab your tea, coffee, or a 13 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:18.640 glass of wine and let's talk to things. Hello everyone, and welcome back 14 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:23.640 to another episode of Let's Talk to Things. Today we are talking to Things 15 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:29.680 with photographer Donald Darling. Hi. Donald, how are you. I'm doing 16 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:34.200 well, Ash, how are you? I am good. Thank you so 17 00:01:34.280 --> 00:01:38.120 much for coming. I hope you're having a great day so far. It 18 00:01:38.280 --> 00:01:42.159 is definitely a day. Oh buddy, Yeah, happy to be here. 19 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:53.239 I'm on a podcast. Well, I am definitely glad that you're here. 20 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.079 So, as you know, I usually begin each episode with a quote or 21 00:01:57.200 --> 00:02:02.920 song lyrics related to the guest or topic, and this episode's song lyrics are 22 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:09.159 people see me acting strange, they might think it's a burning shame. But 23 00:02:09.199 --> 00:02:15.039 the people don't realize the pangs of hell that I feel. So let them 24 00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:17.639 say that I'm mad. They don't know how it feels to be sad. 25 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:23.240 I don't know who could be glad in a situation like this, And that 26 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:28.599 is let them say. By Bob Andy. And the reason I chose this 27 00:02:28.680 --> 00:02:34.960 song is really because of the message, which to me says that sometimes your 28 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:40.080 friend or family member, or maybe even you may start acting strangely and it 29 00:02:40.159 --> 00:02:46.520 likely has nothing to do with other people, and that maybe yourself or other 30 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:50.639 people are going through a tough time, and so I think it just makes 31 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:54.719 you think that rather than take it personally, perhaps you can inquire and maybe 32 00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.199 give them the space that they need to receive support, you know, So 33 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:06.240 I wanted to know what your interpretation of these lyrics are. So I would 34 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:10.319 say, I'm I'm along kind of aligned with what you with with with your 35 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:15.319 interpretation. Um, it's interesting because this wouldn't be the first time someone would 36 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:22.560 uh use that to describe how I can act sometimes. But um, it 37 00:03:22.639 --> 00:03:28.080 is where you know, a lot of times what you perceive to be um 38 00:03:28.199 --> 00:03:31.400 or the way you perceive something is not necessarily the way it is. Right. 39 00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:38.960 Um. Sometimes what's what's strange to or out of character to someone else? 40 00:03:39.400 --> 00:03:44.400 You know, it's just it's just like a moment you're having, right, 41 00:03:45.039 --> 00:03:46.520 or you know, it could just be you being your true self. 42 00:03:46.719 --> 00:03:51.879 So you know, it just depends on on the person and depends on the 43 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.520 situation and what's going on at that time. I agree, I agree, 44 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:00.879 and I think time and time again, I've heard people say or seeing people 45 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.199 post on social media, you know, check on your strong friend, or 46 00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:10.280 everyone's fighting a battle you know nothing about, etc. Right, But in 47 00:04:10.400 --> 00:04:15.960 reality, it seems as though until something happens, you know, most people 48 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:18.879 admit that they don't usually check on their friends or family, you know, 49 00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:25.000 with the assumption especially there's quote unquote strong friends or family with the assumption that 50 00:04:25.120 --> 00:04:28.959 like, oh, they posted on Instagram or you know, they put up 51 00:04:28.959 --> 00:04:31.959 a picture somewhere and that means that they're fine, and we're all guilty of 52 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:39.279 that. Right. But I think that even though I think possibly equally both 53 00:04:39.319 --> 00:04:44.639 men and women experience this, I'm curious to hear a male perspective because I 54 00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:49.720 think that there's this unsaid expectation that men have to be strong all the time, 55 00:04:50.000 --> 00:04:54.959 even when they may not feel like it. So as typically the strong 56 00:04:55.040 --> 00:05:01.240 friend, I mean the girl I feel you, you know, I think 57 00:05:01.240 --> 00:05:08.319 that that's absolutely a thing, right. Um, people, there's like there's 58 00:05:08.319 --> 00:05:11.600 always this saying that you know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right, 59 00:05:11.600 --> 00:05:15.879 So if you're not, if you're not always the one that's kind of 60 00:05:15.879 --> 00:05:20.360 expressing that something is going on, Um, people think everything's fine. So 61 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:26.839 um, you know, oftentimes that strong friend isn't the first person on your 62 00:05:26.839 --> 00:05:30.519 list to check on because you just assumer right, they're good. I don't 63 00:05:30.560 --> 00:05:33.680 I don't see anything happening. You know, they're posting as normal. But 64 00:05:33.959 --> 00:05:38.879 you know, as we all know, everyone battles things, you know, 65 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:44.879 battles their own demons and and you know, everyone needs some kind of support. 66 00:05:45.439 --> 00:05:50.040 Um as far as it comes to men, um you know, society 67 00:05:50.079 --> 00:05:54.800 tells us we're supposed to be the strong ones, right, we are supposed 68 00:05:54.839 --> 00:05:59.759 to you know, not show emotion. You know, you know whole stand 69 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:03.040 up for the family and hold everything on our shoulders and you know, bear 70 00:06:03.120 --> 00:06:09.120 the brunt of all things that are coming. But you know, when you 71 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:12.800 break it all down, people or people, man, woman, you know, 72 00:06:12.879 --> 00:06:17.839 how do you identify it's you are a person at the core, you 73 00:06:17.959 --> 00:06:24.680 have feelings, and you know those feelings get hurt, you get angry, 74 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.879 you get sad. You know, if we all go through we all go 75 00:06:27.959 --> 00:06:32.120 through these same emotions. So I've never really been one to agree with or 76 00:06:32.199 --> 00:06:39.600 really love that kind of narrative about um men just being the strong one and 77 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:44.120 not showing emotions, listening something going on with me. I have no problem 78 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:47.360 shedding a tear. It's a small thug tear. But if you hear all 79 00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:53.800 right, so you know it's and and and and I'll be honest, right, 80 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.920 it took a while for me to get to that point because because you're 81 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:00.319 growing up, you know again, you're man, you You're not you can't 82 00:07:00.319 --> 00:07:03.439 show weakness. You're not supposed to show this um But as you get older 83 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:08.360 and you realize, you know, you keep things bottled up for for long 84 00:07:08.480 --> 00:07:13.279 enough, it's going to explode, right and and initially, and if that's 85 00:07:13.319 --> 00:07:16.879 happened to you and you've you know, been lucky enough to to recover from 86 00:07:16.879 --> 00:07:19.480 that, that's great. And if it's happened to you and you haven't, 87 00:07:20.079 --> 00:07:25.839 then you know, oftentimes it's a lesson you learn too late. So you 88 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:30.720 know, I do think again that is a narrative that that that society has 89 00:07:30.839 --> 00:07:35.240 you know, preached and instilled and and us that demands supposed to be you 90 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:39.480 know, this super strong superhero. And there's nothing wrong with that. You 91 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:42.680 know, you can't go around crying about everything, but if you're going through 92 00:07:42.680 --> 00:07:46.399 stuff you need to, you should have that outlet to express that because again, 93 00:07:46.439 --> 00:07:49.639 we are all human. Absolutely, I think that's so true. And 94 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:55.040 speaking of you know, societal factors, and you talked about growing up, 95 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:59.920 you know, so it starts from childhood, whether that's boyhood or girls who 96 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:03.639 it starts from childhood, right, like what you presume the expectations of your 97 00:08:03.680 --> 00:08:11.439 gender are. So do you think that social and cultural factors influence someone's willingness 98 00:08:11.480 --> 00:08:18.240 to acknowledge that vulnerability or even to accept help from other people. Absolutely. 99 00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:26.560 I mean we come from a culture where you know that macho, it's it's 100 00:08:26.600 --> 00:08:31.920 it's almost you're almost boring into it, right, you know, you're not 101 00:08:31.000 --> 00:08:35.399 supposed to be soft. You know, you're not supposed to be this, 102 00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:39.519 and you learn that coming up and and it's and it's reinforced from both your 103 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:43.879 male you know, for the male figures in your life as well as the 104 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:48.720 women in your life. Right, it just kind of is what our culture, 105 00:08:48.440 --> 00:08:54.320 you know, it has has been defined to be. So you know, 106 00:08:54.399 --> 00:08:58.200 I definitely think that plays a part. Now does everybody subscribe to that? 107 00:08:58.440 --> 00:09:03.600 Obviously not you have exceptions, but in general, Yeah, that's that's 108 00:09:03.759 --> 00:09:09.919 absolutely something that is that stems from culture. It stems from you know, 109 00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:15.159 the environment you're in. Um, you know who you're around. Some people 110 00:09:15.799 --> 00:09:18.480 have it a little bit harder and it's and have a lot more of it 111 00:09:18.559 --> 00:09:26.679 because they're in like a male dominated environment or you know, you may have 112 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.600 a little you may have a little less if you're in uh, you know, 113 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.000 female dominated environment or what have you. Or And again we both know 114 00:09:35.120 --> 00:09:39.480 that it can go either way because you have some women in our culture that 115 00:09:39.519 --> 00:09:41.639 are all about listen, I don't want to see you crying. I don't 116 00:09:41.679 --> 00:09:46.440 want to see you expressing these emotions because of you know, this, that 117 00:09:46.519 --> 00:09:50.639 and the third which we won't necessarily touch on here, but in Jamaican culture, 118 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:54.759 there are many reasons why they don't want you to be quote unquote soft. 119 00:09:56.879 --> 00:10:03.080 So you know, in my case, absolutely stem from that. Um. 120 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:07.799 And again, I've just over time, you just you change, you, 121 00:10:07.799 --> 00:10:13.879 you expand you grow, you know you, I self reflect a whole 122 00:10:13.960 --> 00:10:18.639 lot, you know, I pull from from different different places and you just 123 00:10:18.720 --> 00:10:24.879 learn to evolve or not right. So essentially everything is a choice, and 124 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:30.039 that's something that we talk about a lot on this podcast in different ways. 125 00:10:30.080 --> 00:10:33.799 Like you have a you have a choice at some point in your life. 126 00:10:33.799 --> 00:10:39.000 Maybe not as a child sort of, I mean yes, everyone, everyone 127 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:43.879 in general has a choice. Um. Some some people may not realize the 128 00:10:43.960 --> 00:10:48.039 choice they have, and some people are too forced into a certain way, 129 00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:54.360 even if it may go against what they what they truly feel right, because 130 00:10:54.440 --> 00:11:00.720 you you start to look at the stigma behind certain things and how will respond 131 00:11:00.759 --> 00:11:03.200 to it. And you know, oftentimes a lot of people are afraid to 132 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:09.399 you know, potentially express the way they truly feel about a situation for fear 133 00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:15.840 of whatever backlash comes from that. M That's very true. That's that's actually 134 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.360 an excellent point. So, as you mentioned, you know, and as 135 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:26.120 you know, this podcast is geared toward Caribbean people, right, A lot 136 00:11:26.240 --> 00:11:30.759 of my listeners are Caribbean women, women in general. But obviously anybody can 137 00:11:30.799 --> 00:11:33.720 listen to this podcast, and the hope is that anybody listens and anybody relates 138 00:11:33.759 --> 00:11:39.519 and feels seen and heard. Right, So for anyone listening, but with 139 00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:46.799 I guess a keen perspective or you know, just thinking about what comes with 140 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:52.919 our culture in the diaspora, how do you suggest that anyone can cultivate an 141 00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:56.759 environment in which a friend that maybe is going through something and is you know, 142 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.240 of our culture and maybe was brought up where you know, you don't 143 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:05.000 really say anything, or if you're a man, maybe you don't show emotion. 144 00:12:05.159 --> 00:12:09.200 Like, how can somebody cultivate an environment in which that person or that 145 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:15.919 friend or family member feels comfortable sharing their emotional struggles. I mean you have 146 00:12:16.000 --> 00:12:20.759 to be the brave one to you know, want to create that environment. 147 00:12:20.960 --> 00:12:28.039 Um, I can say in my case it was and this is a sound 148 00:12:28.039 --> 00:12:35.480 bad, but um, it's it's finding people outside of the culture that have 149 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:41.600 that are kind of operating in the space in which you you look to to 150 00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:46.240 you know, get to right. Um, I I can tell you it's 151 00:12:46.279 --> 00:12:48.919 like showing emotion and doing all that. It definitely did not come from Jamaican 152 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:54.159 friends and not and not to not to say that that that is not a 153 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:58.279 thing, right, it's it's not to say just personally the people I was 154 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:03.000 I was around are not the people that was like, you know, if 155 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:07.480 you feel sad about this, you can you can express it here. Um. 156 00:13:07.799 --> 00:13:13.399 You know, I just I surrounded myself with people that we're either operating 157 00:13:13.799 --> 00:13:18.240 in the in which in the ways that I was hoping to get to, 158 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:24.120 um, and that those people that created an environment where it was comfortable and 159 00:13:24.200 --> 00:13:28.840 where I could learn. Um. If you're looking to create that environment for 160 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.679 yourself, I mean quite honestly, you're just gonna have to be brave and 161 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:37.759 step out and do it. And you know it has to start with someone 162 00:13:39.480 --> 00:13:43.480 and ye, you know, it just has It's kind of just what it 163 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:46.799 is you You have to start with whoever it is that is going to say 164 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.279 I feel a certain way. I don't believe this is the right way for 165 00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:58.440 us to continue to operate. Let me be the example. UM I again 166 00:14:00.120 --> 00:14:05.000 to not to sound like I'm digging up myself, but you know, but 167 00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.799 like for no but s's like for for my from my friend's circle, especially 168 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:15.399 my my circle of friends that are from our culture. I don't care if 169 00:14:15.399 --> 00:14:18.360 you call me soft or not. If if something's going on with me and 170 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:20.639 I feel sad about it, I want to cry about it. I have 171 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:24.399 no problem saying your look, this bothers me, bother me, this is 172 00:14:24.440 --> 00:14:28.960 what I did, This is how I feel about it, and I can 173 00:14:28.120 --> 00:14:33.559 educate you on why. You know, this is the approach I took, 174 00:14:33.039 --> 00:14:37.159 and this is where my comfort was. And you know, hope to get 175 00:14:37.200 --> 00:14:41.000 you to a space where you feel comfortable because again, like I said, 176 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:45.039 you know when we first started the conversation, we're all human. We all 177 00:14:45.080 --> 00:14:48.000 have the same emotions, despite what you despite the facade you want to put 178 00:14:48.039 --> 00:14:52.480 on, you're you know, the toughest of the tough get sad, the 179 00:14:52.480 --> 00:14:56.799 toughest of the tough, you know, are angry, and and you know 180 00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:01.919 we all go through those different range of emotions definitely, definitely, And I 181 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:07.279 think, like I said, I think there are people just in different environments, 182 00:15:07.360 --> 00:15:11.519 man or woman, that you know, deal with somebody that might be 183 00:15:11.519 --> 00:15:16.159 telling them they're too emotional or maybe they're not emotional enough. You know, 184 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:20.519 there's a there's all different sides to this conversation, but it's just something that 185 00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:28.039 I noticed isn't really discussed with men. I think maybe maybe nowadays or more 186 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:31.320 recently, you know, with the advent of like podcasts and things like that, 187 00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:35.840 where men are able to express themselves. But even that, I saw 188 00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:37.919 something and I didn't even plan to say this, but it just made me 189 00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:41.759 think of it. I saw something a few days ago that was like, 190 00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.759 men need to, you know, stop going on these podcasts and you know, 191 00:15:46.879 --> 00:15:50.080 do something constructive with their lives and blah blah blah. But then you'll 192 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.440 see other posts that would be like, oh, I wish men just had 193 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.159 a space to express themselves, right, And of course I'm not taking up 194 00:15:58.159 --> 00:16:03.440 for the men that go on podcast or shows or whatever medium and bash women 195 00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:07.480 and you know, say derogatory things. I'm talking about. I've seen some 196 00:16:07.679 --> 00:16:11.399 very good all male podcasts that talk about real issues that men go through that 197 00:16:11.480 --> 00:16:15.840 just talk about issues in general, right, And I think that's amazing that, 198 00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:21.559 you know, we have created society, has created this environment that makes 199 00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:25.360 them comfortable to not only do it amongst themselves, but to share it with 200 00:16:25.399 --> 00:16:30.720 the world. Listen to some of these people, the people that specifically the 201 00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.519 people that they're saying that men need to stop going on these podcasts are oftentimes 202 00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:37.559 some of the people that need to go on them the most, right. 203 00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:44.440 You know, hurt people, hurt people, hurt people who So it's it's 204 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:48.840 almost and sometimes it's almost a jealousy thing. It's like, well, look 205 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.879 at them over there sharing and being vulnerable. I wish I could do that, 206 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.679 yes, but my environment doesn't allow for that. So I'm gonna meet 207 00:16:56.759 --> 00:17:02.919 this with the only emotion I know, which is anger, right instead of 208 00:17:03.519 --> 00:17:10.759 understanding. So I while I don't think people need to get on these podcasts 209 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:15.000 and you know, spill everything, they don't have to. But you know, 210 00:17:15.079 --> 00:17:19.000 if you feel comfortable telling your life, tell your life. We because 211 00:17:19.319 --> 00:17:23.680 we have this double standard where it's, oh, we don't we want men 212 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:29.799 to to open up um or or or Betty, Yet we want we want 213 00:17:29.799 --> 00:17:33.200 to want to make make progress when it comes to things like domestic violence and 214 00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:38.599 and and just violence and as a whole and and all these things that oftentimes 215 00:17:40.200 --> 00:17:45.160 men are responsible for. But then the path to get us to that place, 216 00:17:45.640 --> 00:17:51.039 everybody has an opinion about. Wow, that's true. It's like, 217 00:17:51.079 --> 00:17:53.000 oh, well, we want you to be tough, but you know, 218 00:17:53.119 --> 00:17:56.920 not that tough. Don't want you to be soft but not super soft. 219 00:17:56.359 --> 00:18:00.319 Like no, let me deal with the thing I need to deal with in 220 00:18:00.359 --> 00:18:07.319 my way. That's more constructive than me going out and shooting salati or as 221 00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:11.319 me going out and beating somebody up, or me you know, taking the 222 00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:18.880 hurt that I experienced from rejection. And now I'm out here telling you about 223 00:18:18.240 --> 00:18:22.880 how horrible women are, right right, Instead of doing that, let me 224 00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.480 express, let me tell you look, yeah you broke you broke my heart. 225 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:30.240 Yes, it hurt me. Let me work through it instead of me 226 00:18:30.319 --> 00:18:33.920 getting on on TV and black. You know, all these women are terrible 227 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.359 and you know they only want this. Yeah you can't. You got to 228 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.400 pick a side, absolutely absolutely, And it's funny you say that. I 229 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:45.559 remember listening to another one of my favorite podcasts with Kadeen and Daval. I 230 00:18:45.559 --> 00:18:49.319 don't know if you know them, they're a married couple. Okay, so 231 00:18:49.359 --> 00:18:53.160 they're a married couple of long story shorts. He's American and she's Jamaican, 232 00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:57.799 and basically their podcast they talk about a married of issues. But this particular 233 00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:03.279 episode he mentioned something like that, like having a friend that had a bad 234 00:19:03.319 --> 00:19:06.680 experience with one women, one woman, and all of a sudden, he 235 00:19:06.759 --> 00:19:08.519 was like, women are terrible. Women are this? Women are that? 236 00:19:08.960 --> 00:19:12.480 And he was like, but bro, you didn't date all women. You 237 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:18.640 literally had an experience with this one person, and no, you've decided that 238 00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:22.759 all these people are like that. So we're going to talk about kind of 239 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.480 the psychology behind that a little bit later. So it's very interesting that you 240 00:19:26.599 --> 00:19:30.519 brought that up. But it just made me think of what he said because 241 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:33.720 it was very similar to what you just said. And I love that men 242 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:37.279 are the ones saying this. I love that I didn't just give you an 243 00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:41.599 example of all woman podcasts that was saying, well, this is what men 244 00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:45.319 think, because I think it's really important for men to fill that void by 245 00:19:45.440 --> 00:19:51.680 telling women telling other men like, these are our thoughts, right, because 246 00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:55.359 I think, yes, equality is important, and equity is important, but 247 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.720 at the end of the day, we are different genders and we think differently. 248 00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.440 And so that is something with the whole men and podcast thing that I 249 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.119 actually appreciate because at least, no, you're hearing from men. You might 250 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:10.519 not like what you hear all the time because I don't you know what I 251 00:20:10.559 --> 00:20:14.880 mean, but at least it's coming from the horse's mouth. It's not another 252 00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.880 gender just surmising or coming up with their own opinion based off of their lens 253 00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:25.119 or what they went through with particular men, whether and not just relationships. 254 00:20:25.119 --> 00:20:29.880 It could be you know, their view on fathers, their view on siblings, 255 00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:36.400 like that's from their perspective, and a lot of times it's it's just 256 00:20:36.440 --> 00:20:40.279 with their lens. And I don't feel like it's healthy to share information about 257 00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:44.799 an experience that you have never had and you will never had. Have Yeah, 258 00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:51.559 you it's in my opinion, it's more it's more productive when the message 259 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:56.319 is coming from someone you can relate to. Right, Right, A woman 260 00:20:56.359 --> 00:20:59.960 that has never been in a relationship, that has never played the male role 261 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:03.759 in a relationship, can only tell me so much about playing the male role 262 00:21:03.799 --> 00:21:07.480 in the relationship. Right, you can you can tell me what you can 263 00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:14.920 tell me about your experience from a woman's perspective being in the relationship and what 264 00:21:15.599 --> 00:21:19.039 that person, your significant other who would have you, has done and what 265 00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:23.319 you would interpret that as. But like it's gonna be different coming from him, 266 00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:27.599 absolutely, absolutely absolutely, and he's got and his message is going to 267 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:32.480 be different than the way he delivers it to me as another man, and 268 00:21:32.559 --> 00:21:36.440 I just may relate to that differently. So I absolutely think we had we 269 00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:41.680 as men have to be the ones to drive this type of conversation and this 270 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:45.000 type of change. And I'm with you. I love what these podcasts. 271 00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:48.359 They're the productive ones. Even the hood was. I like how all of 272 00:21:48.359 --> 00:21:52.759 these podcasts are getting people to express themselves because like, I'd much rather you 273 00:21:52.839 --> 00:21:56.359 go and just run your mouth on someone's podcasts, then again you run these 274 00:21:56.359 --> 00:22:03.519 streets and the run upon me. And right right, no, absolutely absolutely, 275 00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:07.319 I think it's it's really important. And something you said before, I 276 00:22:07.480 --> 00:22:11.599 know, again, within our culture, and I think just black culture in 277 00:22:11.640 --> 00:22:17.079 general, you don't you're kind of taught as you're growing up, like you 278 00:22:17.079 --> 00:22:21.680 don't tell people your business, right, Like that's a thing. So if 279 00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:25.960 you're a friend of a strong friend, let's say, right, and you 280 00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:30.079 want to support them, how do you know, or like, what strategies 281 00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.319 can you use to check in with them? But not but make it more 282 00:22:33.480 --> 00:22:38.720 supportive and less intrusive, because I think that's an issue that a lot of 283 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:44.480 people have that they don't know how to how to not make it seem like 284 00:22:44.519 --> 00:22:48.039 they're being intrusive and that they're really they really care and they really want to 285 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:52.759 support. Because let's not forget before you answer that you do have those people 286 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.960 that just want to know the story. I've been in those situations before where 287 00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:00.559 you really think like, oh, there they care. They they really want 288 00:23:00.559 --> 00:23:03.720 to know you're okay. But once they have the story, it's like they 289 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.240 don't care anymore because no, they have the story. So how do you 290 00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.960 kind of navigate that? Because I think that's a really hard thing for people 291 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.400 to do. So I'll start with this the ones I just want to know 292 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.920 the story or not your friends, that's a word. Let's just let's just 293 00:23:15.960 --> 00:23:21.559 make that clear. Right, If I'm asking you something just because I'm curious 294 00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:26.079 and I want to satisfy some weird need to know, then I'm not your 295 00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:30.319 friend. Right. A friend is asking because they're concerned. A friend is 296 00:23:30.359 --> 00:23:34.960 asking because they want to help. Right, A friend. I've had friends 297 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:38.599 be in situations where I'm like, you don't even have to tell me the 298 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:41.759 details of it. I'm cool, I don't need to know the details. 299 00:23:41.799 --> 00:23:45.920 But what do you need from me? Right? How can I help you? 300 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.079 Right? Tell me what you need to tell me so I can be 301 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:52.720 of assistance. I don't need to know all details because I don't I care, 302 00:23:52.200 --> 00:23:55.880 But you tell me what you're comfortable with. And I think you know, 303 00:23:56.279 --> 00:24:00.400 if you're the friend that's doing the checking in, that's the coroach you 304 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.880 gotta take right and and and your friendship should already be built on on the 305 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:11.200 foundation that you know, your your your concern and the thing that matters most 306 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:18.319 to you is your friends well being. If your if your friendship is built 307 00:24:18.359 --> 00:24:22.640 on that foundation, then you don't run into the secretive you know, I 308 00:24:22.640 --> 00:24:26.680 don't want to tell such and such dissent. And if you've also exhibited those 309 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:30.240 those you know, traits and tendencies to not be that messy person that just 310 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:34.039 wants to hear the story so they can tell the story. UM, then 311 00:24:34.279 --> 00:24:41.279 you know people are more more open to share and tell you what's going on. 312 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.400 UM. You know one of the tactics that I've used and I hate 313 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.640 to ord tactic, but that's the first word that came to mind, is 314 00:24:48.680 --> 00:24:53.359 that I just again, I'm just it's a general check in, even if, 315 00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:57.559 even if in my even if in my heart I feel like there's something 316 00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:00.839 more going on, it's just, hey, how's your day going to? 317 00:25:02.680 --> 00:25:06.720 Let me just check in generally, and and from there, you know, 318 00:25:06.799 --> 00:25:11.519 we can we kind of progress to know how you truly are doing right. 319 00:25:11.640 --> 00:25:15.480 Um And and the other thing I'll say is that's one of the things about 320 00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:21.960 our culture, Black culture, Caribbean culture, what have you, that it's 321 00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:25.920 something I think we need to work on changing the whole secretive. I don't 322 00:25:25.920 --> 00:25:30.039 want to buy him a business and I don't want I get it, I 323 00:25:30.119 --> 00:25:33.240 get where it's. It's useful if if it's the wrong people you're dealing with, 324 00:25:33.880 --> 00:25:37.039 But when it's the right people, you gotta you gotta start to get 325 00:25:37.079 --> 00:25:45.440 comfortable with opening up right because as friends, family, what have you, 326 00:25:45.440 --> 00:25:49.960 you ultimately should want that person you care about to win and to be the 327 00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.880 best person they can be and be in the best state they can be end 328 00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:59.559 um and and and if you're rooted in that, then you know no one 329 00:25:59.599 --> 00:26:03.720 should worry about what your intention is behind asking the questions. I agree, 330 00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:11.200 I agree, and I think that also is an important part of your well 331 00:26:11.240 --> 00:26:14.880 being. Keeping your well being intact. Right, And in a previous episode, 332 00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:18.319 we talked about happiness and well being and self care and you know, 333 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:25.319 having strong social connections and how all of those things play a role into everyone's 334 00:26:25.359 --> 00:26:29.920 happiness and well being, right and basically everyone being able to be them best 335 00:26:30.039 --> 00:26:33.240 their best selves, no matter what your gender is, no matter what societal 336 00:26:33.319 --> 00:26:37.440 constructs are put out there that you supposedly have to live up to. You 337 00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:42.599 know, being okay within yourself. Having an environment where you feel like you 338 00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:47.079 can talk to someone and feel safe to say, hey, something's going on, 339 00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:49.480 rather than, like you said, take it out in other acts of 340 00:26:49.599 --> 00:26:56.799 violence is very, very very important. Right. So we've obviously, well 341 00:26:56.920 --> 00:27:02.279 not obviously the audience wouldn't know, but we have been friends for several years, 342 00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.839 so I know some of the tools I would say that you use to 343 00:27:06.920 --> 00:27:10.960 keep your well being intact, you know, golf, bike riding, and 344 00:27:11.160 --> 00:27:15.799 photography right as forms of your self care. So I wanted to know if 345 00:27:15.839 --> 00:27:21.279 you could share how you discovered that those things brought you joy and weren't just 346 00:27:21.319 --> 00:27:25.279 simply you know, hobbies or just things to do. Um, So I 347 00:27:25.319 --> 00:27:30.279 mean I can, I can go through them. So I've known for a 348 00:27:30.400 --> 00:27:37.680 while that being outside and being active is good for me. Right as as 349 00:27:37.720 --> 00:27:41.680 a kid growing up, the worst thing my mother could do is tell me 350 00:27:41.799 --> 00:27:45.720 I can't go outside. You can punish me, you can take the TV, 351 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.319 you can take the allowance, take all of that. Just don't tell 352 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:55.480 me I can't go outside, right because just being outside, it does, 353 00:27:56.119 --> 00:28:00.440 it does wonders for me just mentally. I love the sun. Or I'm 354 00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:03.920 a Caribbean baby, I love the sun. And that's why I live in 355 00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:08.440 California because I love the sun. Right. Um. And you know, 356 00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:12.799 the bike ride, the cycling and the mountain biking and all that stuff, 357 00:28:14.079 --> 00:28:18.119 you know, initially started out as me just trying to lose some weight and 358 00:28:18.359 --> 00:28:22.519 trying to feel better, you know, from a physical standpoint, and I 359 00:28:22.559 --> 00:28:26.880 just I just realized in doing it that you know, I really just love 360 00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:33.920 being out here in nature. It's it's it's a weird, like even if 361 00:28:33.920 --> 00:28:37.359 you're out with other people. When I'm on the bike, I'm just in 362 00:28:37.400 --> 00:28:41.240 my own world. You know, I'm obviously watching out for crazy drivers. 363 00:28:41.640 --> 00:28:47.119 But outside of that, you know, it's just it's away from the escape. 364 00:28:47.279 --> 00:28:51.839 Um now I have a family. Um, being on the bike and 365 00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:55.240 being out on the golf course or this is my quiet place. This is 366 00:28:55.279 --> 00:28:59.279 where I can get a break from everyday life. You know, I can 367 00:28:59.480 --> 00:29:03.599 can I'm golfing, I'm hanging out with friends. I'm typically frustrated at something 368 00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:07.680 on the golf course, but it's okay. I'm outside. I'm away from 369 00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:11.200 all the things that I you know, the general things that you have to 370 00:29:11.240 --> 00:29:15.880 do when you have a job and family and so so. Yeah, you 371 00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:19.440 know, as far as discovering it, I just I've always been open to 372 00:29:19.480 --> 00:29:23.160 try things. Someone one day was like, hey, I'm out on biking. 373 00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:27.079 You should try it out. Say cool, get a bike, jump 374 00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.640 on and see if I like it. If I don't like it, I 375 00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:34.200 saw a bike, I enjoyed it. The golf thing kind of started as 376 00:29:34.240 --> 00:29:40.039 like a chess move in corporate America because everyone in corporate America seeing we played 377 00:29:40.079 --> 00:29:44.480 golf, and then that kind of that kind of developed into oh I really 378 00:29:44.480 --> 00:29:47.960 liked this sport. I really enjoy being out here. Same thing with the 379 00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:52.160 cycling. Photography has just been a passion of mine. Man, if you 380 00:29:52.759 --> 00:29:56.400 the minute I pick up a camera, nothing else matters but what I see 381 00:29:56.440 --> 00:30:02.720 through my lens and me just just just a pure being a purist when it 382 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.839 comes to photography, you know, getting the shot that I want, being 383 00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:11.400 able to focus in on whatever the subject is that I'm capturing at that time, 384 00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:18.720 it calms me. You know, I'm anxious at times because you want 385 00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:23.039 to get it right, but it's just a feeling that it just it again. 386 00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:29.400 It does well for me mentally, and it's just a great outlet for 387 00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:36.559 me to one express creativity, you can express frustration. You really can express 388 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:44.319 all of your emotions from behind this camera and and you know, present it 389 00:30:44.319 --> 00:30:47.480 to the world if you want or not, or keep it to yourself. 390 00:30:47.519 --> 00:30:49.799 You know. Depending some people take amazing photos that the world never sees, 391 00:30:51.480 --> 00:30:55.519 and it's just it's just one of those things that, like I said, 392 00:30:56.319 --> 00:30:59.920 but it also started off me and photography. I wanted to decorate my part. 393 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:03.519 Man. I didn't feel like buying photos, so I picked up a 394 00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:08.000 camera and learn how to use it. And you know, fifteen years later, 395 00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:12.799 here I am making some pretty pretty dope content to put out to the 396 00:31:12.799 --> 00:31:18.039 world. And you know, it's just you know, you have to be 397 00:31:18.119 --> 00:31:25.480 open to trying these things and truly, you know, immersing yourself and whatever 398 00:31:25.519 --> 00:31:30.720 it is that you are trying and getting from it what you can and truly 399 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:36.880 again just surrendering yourself to the process. And that's that's so interesting because that's 400 00:31:36.880 --> 00:31:40.880 something that I was going to point out listening to you, it seems like 401 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.960 you have made the choice to surrender in that way to say, like, 402 00:31:45.039 --> 00:31:48.759 you know what, yeah, I'm just going to try golfing because you know 403 00:31:48.799 --> 00:31:52.839 that's what they do in corporate America. But you're still willing to try it 404 00:31:52.200 --> 00:31:55.960 because just because that's what they do, that doesn't mean you have to try 405 00:31:55.960 --> 00:31:57.680 it. You know, Mountain Biker, you had a friend say, oh 406 00:31:57.759 --> 00:32:00.680 you should try it. You could have said a cool story, bro, 407 00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:05.319 no thanks, but you decided to try it, you know. And I 408 00:32:05.359 --> 00:32:08.880 think what you said is perfect, like put yourself out there trying new things, 409 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:13.359 see what you like. You know, you never know what you like 410 00:32:13.640 --> 00:32:17.200 until you try it, right, But specifically for photography, right. I 411 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:23.799 love the fact that you turned your passion for photography into a business per se, 412 00:32:23.920 --> 00:32:27.839 right, And it didn't start like that, Like you just explained how 413 00:32:27.839 --> 00:32:31.039 it started. But I wanted to touch on that a little bit because nowadays, 414 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.720 you know, somebody takes maybe a good picture on Instagram and they think 415 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:38.079 they're a photographer, but you take it very seriously. I know that to 416 00:32:38.119 --> 00:32:42.880 be true. So I wanted to know if you would share with us what 417 00:32:43.200 --> 00:32:49.279 inspired you to really take photography seriously? And you know, how would you 418 00:32:49.319 --> 00:32:55.759 describe your photography style? So what I'll start the first question? What convinced 419 00:32:55.759 --> 00:32:59.920 me to take it seriously? I I don't like to not be good at 420 00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:05.279 things. It's a thing with me. I started out with it, and 421 00:33:06.000 --> 00:33:09.799 I you know, I learned the basics, and I mean I got hate. 422 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:16.599 I always say I got hazed into photography. I literally learned when my 423 00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:22.519 my friend started to teach me this. Um. It was literally from the 424 00:33:22.519 --> 00:33:29.079 bare bones, right. I had to learn the absolute basics of a camera, 425 00:33:29.319 --> 00:33:34.720 of basics of composition, the hard way, UM. And I think 426 00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:39.160 you know, for me putting in that work up front and knowing kind of 427 00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:45.400 the rigor behind that, UM, I wanted to make sure that you know, 428 00:33:45.480 --> 00:33:49.039 I saw a finished product. I saw I saw the fruits of that 429 00:33:49.119 --> 00:33:52.400 labor for lack of a better term, right, So that partially you know, 430 00:33:52.480 --> 00:33:58.279 pushed me and then you know, just really falling in love with it, 431 00:33:58.319 --> 00:34:01.200 and and and it's reflecting, right because I started to really reflect on 432 00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.799 how like my history with a camera, and come to find out I've for 433 00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:10.800 for a good, you know, bulk of my young life. I can 434 00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:15.920 remember myself with a camera, with some kind of camera, and I just 435 00:34:16.360 --> 00:34:21.599 it was one of those things you just didn't realize at the time until I 436 00:34:21.639 --> 00:34:23.920 was you know, quote unquote an actual photography. I was like, oh 437 00:34:23.920 --> 00:34:30.039 wow. During all four or five years of college, I always had a 438 00:34:30.039 --> 00:34:32.960 cam quarter or a digital camera. When I was I think I remember when 439 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:37.119 I was eight, one of the birthday presents I got was a Kodak film 440 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:39.800 camera. Um. You know, so it's always kind of been a part 441 00:34:39.840 --> 00:34:44.920 of my life, and it just took a while for me to realize that, 442 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:50.079 you know, this is a thing that I want to pursue and and 443 00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:52.800 with all things that I try my hand at, I'm gonna give him my 444 00:34:52.920 --> 00:34:59.079 all. And if it sticks and I, you know, continue to get 445 00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:02.840 to have interest in it, then you know, I continue along with it. 446 00:35:02.960 --> 00:35:07.719 Photography also changes so often. Um, it's a it's an ever evolving 447 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:14.079 art. Forum. You look at photography through years, you know, leading 448 00:35:14.159 --> 00:35:17.599 up to this, you know, social era of of you know, you 449 00:35:17.639 --> 00:35:22.960 have everyone walks around with a camera in their pocket now right, smartphones are 450 00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:27.840 are taking photos that are nicer than the cameras. You know, a lot 451 00:35:27.920 --> 00:35:30.599 of us learned on them, you know. And and and everyone is a 452 00:35:30.639 --> 00:35:40.199 photographer now right until you until you put a camera in manual everybody. Um 453 00:35:40.320 --> 00:35:45.400 So, you know, it's it's being able to navigate the now crowded space 454 00:35:46.280 --> 00:35:53.000 and still being able to produce something that stands out in that crowded space. 455 00:35:54.400 --> 00:36:00.519 You know. That's that's like an ever, That's that's like the carrot chase, 456 00:36:00.760 --> 00:36:04.400 right, continuing to be sharp, being able to stand out, being 457 00:36:04.440 --> 00:36:08.840 able to to really you know, shine in a in an oversaturated space. 458 00:36:09.199 --> 00:36:13.960 I love that. And what would you say your photography style its? Um? 459 00:36:14.000 --> 00:36:16.719 I am? It's hard to define. I I'm a street I'm a 460 00:36:16.719 --> 00:36:21.599 street street photographer at heart, right because that's where I started. I started. 461 00:36:21.639 --> 00:36:25.159 I love candidates. I love you know, natural, you know, 462 00:36:25.280 --> 00:36:31.039 capturing natural moments. I don't overpose things. I don't you know, try 463 00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:36.280 to you know, over edit things. I just like things to be in 464 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:40.760 their pure form. I like to capture people in their own element. Um. 465 00:36:42.400 --> 00:36:45.639 And you know the style is it's kind of just it translates to that 466 00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:53.239 just capturing these you know, minor blips in time, you know, whatever 467 00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:58.039 it is, You're just you're capturing a memory and a moment in time, 468 00:36:58.639 --> 00:37:04.280 and you know, basically essentially freezing it so that you can go back to 469 00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:07.639 it. You know. The best thing for me is for me to take 470 00:37:07.679 --> 00:37:12.480 a photo, whether it's a professional photo or me just you know, taking 471 00:37:12.480 --> 00:37:15.920 pictures of my daughter just to go back and say, wow, there is 472 00:37:15.920 --> 00:37:20.480 a memory attached to this, right, I can look at this photo and 473 00:37:20.599 --> 00:37:24.159 say, I remember this is when she was looking out the window and looking 474 00:37:24.159 --> 00:37:30.800 for cars, or you know, you know this is when you know she 475 00:37:30.920 --> 00:37:35.440 was born. I have like literally fresh out photos of of of my daughter, 476 00:37:35.840 --> 00:37:37.840 you know, when she was born, and just just being able to 477 00:37:37.880 --> 00:37:42.639 go back to that memory. Um. You know, it's kind of kind 478 00:37:42.639 --> 00:37:45.079 of a lot of the things that drive it. And again, the style 479 00:37:45.239 --> 00:37:51.000 is just it's just a natural, you know, raw style. And I 480 00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:55.360 think it's because I started out in the street photography, where things are extremely 481 00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:00.639 unpredictable, predictable, and everything is candid and you know, I've just just 482 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:05.519 kind of based even my portrait work, my landscape work, you know, 483 00:38:05.719 --> 00:38:09.159 all of that work is based in you know, on that foundation. I 484 00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:14.760 love that, and you know it's funny we both said it, but it's 485 00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:20.679 like everyone is a photographer now right. Everyone got a sony or a cannon 486 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:27.119 or some professional camera and know they advertise that they're a wedding photographer, right, 487 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.679 which is fine because, like you just described very well, you know, 488 00:38:30.760 --> 00:38:34.639 photography can be an outlet for people and you know, maybe you pick 489 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.559 it up and you're really good, but it's just kind of like a hobby 490 00:38:37.719 --> 00:38:39.519 something that you just picked up a camera you thought, wow, I took 491 00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:43.280 a couple of good pictures of my friends and stuff, like maybe I can 492 00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.880 do this, right. But there are also some people like you and others 493 00:38:46.920 --> 00:38:51.880 that are very passionate about photography and some that even want to make it a 494 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:57.079 career. So even though you're you kind of vacillate between both, do you 495 00:38:57.119 --> 00:39:01.320 have any advice to someone that is really interested in taking it seriously? And 496 00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:07.079 you know, maybe they think it's not something they can take seriously because of 497 00:39:07.119 --> 00:39:13.559 the overwhelming amount of persons that just think they are photographers like and maybe they 498 00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:19.280 feel discouraged about trying to make it a career. Yeah, um, I 499 00:39:19.320 --> 00:39:24.559 constantly live in that state, so I can absolutely I probably I'm not reading 500 00:39:24.599 --> 00:39:30.400 your diary, I promise no, it's listen. I have no problem, 501 00:39:30.880 --> 00:39:34.320 no problem sharing that. Um. But but it is a thing, you 502 00:39:34.360 --> 00:39:39.199 know, if you are someone that is is truly looking at this and wondering 503 00:39:39.199 --> 00:39:43.679 if it can be a career, right, the best thing you can do 504 00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:49.400 is try it, you know, right, It just it's just you know, 505 00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:52.639 if if you think you're if you believe in yourself enough and you're willing 506 00:39:52.679 --> 00:39:58.599 to absolutely learn the craft, put the work in, you will find an 507 00:39:58.599 --> 00:40:04.199 audience, right you. You will absolutely find someone that will hire you, 508 00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:09.000 um to take their photos if you truly are you know, putting in that 509 00:40:09.039 --> 00:40:14.639 work and you're good, and you're you're passionate about it and you're not really 510 00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:19.440 necessarily trying to take the shortcut around it. If you respect the craft, 511 00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:23.199 it will respect you back. Um. And And although there is it is 512 00:40:23.239 --> 00:40:30.239 an oversaturated you know market at the moment um, there are still people that 513 00:40:30.280 --> 00:40:36.559 are picking up cameras today that are still breaking into this. There's oversaturated market 514 00:40:36.599 --> 00:40:39.760 because you know, there's a there's a there's a lane for everyone, and 515 00:40:39.800 --> 00:40:45.639 there's a customer or a client for everyone, and you just have to do 516 00:40:45.239 --> 00:40:51.920 your work and finding you know what that lane and who that specific client is. 517 00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:58.039 Yes, yes, I think that's that's really sold advice. Okay, 518 00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:02.519 so we're gonna have a little bit of fun changing topics. Right. So 519 00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.960 you are happily married with a beautiful family, but unfortunately there are some people 520 00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:13.800 out there that have not had the best luck in marriage. Right, So 521 00:41:14.079 --> 00:41:21.719 I'm trying a little segment called that no sounds safe. And I saw these 522 00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:27.360 stories on BuzzFeed. I'm sure you're familiar with BuzzFeed. Sometimes I'm literally cracking 523 00:41:27.480 --> 00:41:30.519 up to the point of tears, and sometimes I'm looking at things or reading 524 00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:34.440 things and I'm like, but wait, that don't sound safe, you know. 525 00:41:35.480 --> 00:41:39.639 So this particular one, the title is I'm just reading the title, 526 00:41:39.760 --> 00:41:44.159 so you'll just you'll know what's going on. What is keeping from the title? 527 00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:50.679 Right, The title says I didn't find out until seventeen years into marriage. 528 00:41:51.440 --> 00:41:55.280 People are spilling the secrets they learn about their partner after marriage, and 529 00:41:55.360 --> 00:42:04.320 it is pretty unsettling. So a lot of these examples are basically people being 530 00:42:04.360 --> 00:42:09.199 married for years and years and years and then finding out the craziest things. 531 00:42:09.480 --> 00:42:12.960 Right, So I'm just going to read a couple and I just want to 532 00:42:13.000 --> 00:42:20.119 hear your reaction. Right. So one is, after five years of marriage, 533 00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:24.440 I found out that my husband's family tried to take a hit on his 534 00:42:24.519 --> 00:42:30.400 ex wife earlier. They ended up not going through with it, but I 535 00:42:30.480 --> 00:42:36.679 ran like hell and have never looked back. That's um. They tried to 536 00:42:36.760 --> 00:42:49.159 put what is she? What does she do? That's listen screen, but 537 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:52.280 you know, tell me out up front, man, like I didn't know 538 00:42:52.320 --> 00:42:58.320 what I'm getting into here. Hit that's I don't think we might have to 539 00:42:59.079 --> 00:43:01.599 did we sign a pren No? Well, here's the thing. I'm actually 540 00:43:01.639 --> 00:43:07.679 proud that the example ended with her saying she got older there, because I 541 00:43:07.719 --> 00:43:10.320 was sure it was gonna end with her saying, but where we'll be married 542 00:43:10.360 --> 00:43:15.760 ten years next spring or like something concerning like that. So I actually I'm 543 00:43:15.760 --> 00:43:19.599 actually giving her props for realizing like, wait, this is not safe. 544 00:43:20.239 --> 00:43:25.480 That not so unsafe. That is again outside of outside of this person. 545 00:43:27.639 --> 00:43:32.920 No, unless that person is threatening the life of you know, the husband, 546 00:43:32.920 --> 00:43:36.320 I will have you and then the family put the hit. I can 547 00:43:36.440 --> 00:43:39.559 okay, maybe I can explain. I can understand that. But outside outside 548 00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:44.079 of that, yeah, you gotta run. You gotta run fast, fast, 549 00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:46.920 and you can't even tell you you can't even tell them when you're gonna 550 00:43:46.960 --> 00:43:53.519 run, because there's no telling what they might do to Yeah, I'm I'm 551 00:43:53.519 --> 00:43:57.920 gonna say, I'm gonna say your honor, who we got? I gotta 552 00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:02.039 go on my head out. I gotta go to my own safety. Oh 553 00:44:02.079 --> 00:44:07.960 my gosh. Okay. Another one says we were planning on getting married, 554 00:44:07.320 --> 00:44:13.239 but before setting a date, I found out I was pregnant. Unfortunately, 555 00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:19.519 I miscarried, which was devastating and confusing as it was my first ever pregnancy. 556 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:24.159 When expressing her condolences, his mother said it may have been a sign 557 00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:30.320 that he wasn't ready for another child. What another he has a child with? 558 00:44:30.360 --> 00:44:36.199 Who? Where? When? Wow? You know what though, that's 559 00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:42.400 that's not uncommon, that that is that which is scary, absolute thing that 560 00:44:42.440 --> 00:44:47.960 happens. Um I would run. I would. I would because even if 561 00:44:47.960 --> 00:44:52.239 the person is a changed person now because because most people would would would would 562 00:44:52.320 --> 00:44:57.360 say, well, you know he did that to such and such, but 563 00:44:57.679 --> 00:45:01.960 not me. You know, I'm different. You're not different realistically, and 564 00:45:02.039 --> 00:45:07.360 you can't assume that you're different. So in my case, that would be 565 00:45:07.760 --> 00:45:12.320 a huge red flag. And you know, I would look at the miscarriage 566 00:45:12.440 --> 00:45:20.760 as potentially a blessing in disguise in keeping me from being you know, legally 567 00:45:21.320 --> 00:45:25.400 you know, attached to this person for at least eighteen years. Absolutely, 568 00:45:27.239 --> 00:45:30.920 absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, some of some of these are very scary, 569 00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:35.400 but the fact that they're real is even more scary. So someone else said, 570 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:39.760 people are crazy crazy. Someone else said, my husband lied to the 571 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:45.400 I R. S at Old more than fifty thousand dollars in taxis and he 572 00:45:45.599 --> 00:45:52.440 married me to get my paycheck. Wow, red flag. That's a tough 573 00:45:52.480 --> 00:45:57.239 one though, because right, if you don't and this is this goes back 574 00:45:57.239 --> 00:46:00.840 to like in my case, I was not going to get married until we 575 00:46:01.400 --> 00:46:05.880 spent a bit of time together and truly knew each other, and we were 576 00:46:06.039 --> 00:46:10.280 very forthcoming when it came to finances. Right. I'm a I'm a strong 577 00:46:10.519 --> 00:46:15.000 proponent of you gotta live with the person before you marry the person, because 578 00:46:15.039 --> 00:46:21.719 then you can see how they manage me. Right, And that's some huge 579 00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.599 thing when there's a dependency and you have to manage money because you know, 580 00:46:25.679 --> 00:46:29.760 you can obviously see how people hand the money if you're in separate spaces. 581 00:46:30.119 --> 00:46:32.519 But when you come together, when you come together, and I gotta depend 582 00:46:32.599 --> 00:46:37.480 on you to make sure these lights don't get cut off and my lights get 583 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:42.719 it cut off. We have something talking about in the case of the irsum, 584 00:46:43.079 --> 00:46:46.039 you know, yeah, that's tough to know. But for me, 585 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:51.400 red flag because you could be burders, you could be drug chargers, you 586 00:46:51.440 --> 00:46:55.800 could be a whole lot of things. You don't beat taxivation. Capone couldn't 587 00:46:55.840 --> 00:47:05.440 beat taxivation, right, yep, yep. And what's so scary is that 588 00:47:05.800 --> 00:47:09.159 there are twenty one of these and I would venture to say more than half 589 00:47:09.320 --> 00:47:16.239 half to do with financial or having another child and the person not knowing absolutely 590 00:47:16.280 --> 00:47:21.960 anything about another child, but the family knowing, like in that earlier example, 591 00:47:22.079 --> 00:47:25.719 the mom knowing but never saying anything. Yeah, and that's tough. 592 00:47:25.920 --> 00:47:30.840 I mean in the mom's case, I don't I would necessarily blame her. 593 00:47:30.880 --> 00:47:32.639 It's really not her business to tell oh, no, no, no, 594 00:47:32.679 --> 00:47:37.280 it's just scary. It's just that again, you know that, because you 595 00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:42.920 know it's not her business. My mother will always always tell you if I'm 596 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:47.960 doing certain things and she knows not right, she's she's gonna snitch like and 597 00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:53.920 she she she makes it clear and good. That's good. If I were 598 00:47:53.960 --> 00:48:00.239 in a space with another woman and my mother walked in and coffee, he's 599 00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.800 going to tell my wife, Yeah, that's good, because that's good because 600 00:48:04.800 --> 00:48:07.960 a lots of mothers would not. That's a whole another episode, but a 601 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:10.800 lot of mothers would not that. It just depends on on the type of 602 00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:15.480 people you're dealing with. And I think in those in those examples you've given, 603 00:48:16.159 --> 00:48:22.400 it's less about what happened and more about the fact that they were they 604 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:27.280 were smart enough to make the right choice in not staying for it to happen 605 00:48:27.320 --> 00:48:30.320 to them, because so many people swear these things can't happen to him. 606 00:48:31.840 --> 00:48:39.079 Yes, you don't read it your for him talking about I didn't think it 607 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:44.039 was me. Yeah, so yeah, that's so true. And even like 608 00:48:44.559 --> 00:48:46.280 some of them, I don't even have to read the details. But basically, 609 00:48:46.320 --> 00:48:50.880 this one person said, Um, she got married, they went on 610 00:48:50.880 --> 00:48:55.679 a honeymoon, they had a great time, came back and somehow phone messages 611 00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:00.199 or some type of communication that her husband was communicating with another woman the whole 612 00:49:00.239 --> 00:49:05.679 time on their honeymoon, and that he kind of just settled to marry her, 613 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:09.000 but he had this whole other woman. And it's just like, I 614 00:49:09.039 --> 00:49:14.360 don't typically like to have the conversations of like why men cheat and things like 615 00:49:14.400 --> 00:49:15.920 that, because I think, one, that's just so overdone, and two 616 00:49:16.679 --> 00:49:20.840 what we talked about earlier, I'm not a man, so I'm not here 617 00:49:21.039 --> 00:49:27.320 to try to assess why men do something that they do, because obviously women 618 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.199 do it too. But the question that most people always ask is why men 619 00:49:30.280 --> 00:49:34.880 cheat. I don't really hear a lot of people asking why women cheat, 620 00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:40.199 right, I will say this, I think that men can only cheat if 621 00:49:40.199 --> 00:49:46.679 they have the opportunity to do so. And I think that because most men 622 00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:52.280 operate from a place of abundance and women operate from a place of scarcity, 623 00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:57.039 just because of how society is set up for things like marriage. Right, 624 00:49:57.119 --> 00:50:00.840 Like, a man, according to society, has to get on his knee 625 00:50:00.840 --> 00:50:05.280 and decide to propose to you, so that already gives him a leg up 626 00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:07.480 as far as like is he going to choose you or not? And I 627 00:50:07.519 --> 00:50:10.519 know people probably don't want to think of it like that, right, But 628 00:50:10.559 --> 00:50:14.440 that's just the reality of what it is. If you believe in that. 629 00:50:14.480 --> 00:50:16.280 You have a lot of women that don't. They don't mind getting on their 630 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:22.480 knee and proposing right to each his own. But I think that it just 631 00:50:22.559 --> 00:50:28.639 makes it scary for women, especially millennials. Again, that's the demographic of 632 00:50:28.719 --> 00:50:34.639 this podcast, because I know so many beautiful women with great careers and great 633 00:50:34.679 --> 00:50:37.960 personalities and have all these great things about them, and they cannot meet a 634 00:50:37.960 --> 00:50:43.239 decent guy to save their life, or they meet a decent man or who 635 00:50:43.239 --> 00:50:45.679 they think is a decent man like this person, get married, have the 636 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:49.920 wedding, all this and then find this out, which to me is even 637 00:50:49.960 --> 00:50:53.360 worse because no, you have you know, families involved and finances involved in 638 00:50:53.480 --> 00:50:57.920 all of that. So, like, I don't know, I guess I 639 00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:02.039 would love to know your opinion as a married man and coming from a man 640 00:51:02.320 --> 00:51:08.199 like one, you know, is that something that you think women should be 641 00:51:08.280 --> 00:51:13.719 concerned about? And two is it just something that is kind of like you 642 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:15.920 know, it's like luck of the draw, Like there's no way to really 643 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:23.960 tell who someone is until they show themselves. Um So, as a retired 644 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:32.559 toxic human being at one point in life, I can I can comment on 645 00:51:32.559 --> 00:51:37.559 both sides of that, right. Um. I think in general, people 646 00:51:37.760 --> 00:51:45.400 always show some kind of sign as to who they are. It's just a 647 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:52.519 matter of the other person recognizing and accepting that that sign. And and and 648 00:51:52.679 --> 00:52:00.679 I heavily lean on the accepting part, right because I know men and women 649 00:52:01.000 --> 00:52:09.880 that have made ten thousand excuses for why someone has done something that they know 650 00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:15.119 in their heart that is not right. Right. They're like, oh, 651 00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:17.960 something such as this, or they were having a bad day, or yeah 652 00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:22.159 cool, but no, they just showed you their trash and you decided that 653 00:52:22.280 --> 00:52:29.119 you wanted to be a Gardasgeman. Right. Um, So you know, 654 00:52:29.199 --> 00:52:35.159 I think there are there are truly people that can hide you know, aspects 655 00:52:35.360 --> 00:52:42.840 of their personality pretty well, right, But you can only keep that up 656 00:52:42.880 --> 00:52:49.599 for so long. And I and I think if people are objective and truly 657 00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:55.480 look at a situation for what it is. Um, you know, oftentimes 658 00:52:55.519 --> 00:53:00.239 you're able to avoid this. Not always because you've got some real crafty people 659 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:07.119 out here, but oftentimes we just choose to, you know, interpret things 660 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:15.639 the way that either our environment has taught us to interpret them or what you 661 00:53:15.679 --> 00:53:19.360 know, this this vision of how things should be that we hope. We 662 00:53:19.400 --> 00:53:22.199 all, you know, make up when we start these relationships. We all 663 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:23.840 do it, you know, we all want it to be you know, 664 00:53:24.480 --> 00:53:29.519 like you know who the Huxtables, and we want things to be great. 665 00:53:30.159 --> 00:53:34.079 And and the Huxtables weren't even like the Hostables. It was a team right, 666 00:53:34.440 --> 00:53:38.000 right, exactly exactly what I mean, just just just the characters themselves. 667 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:44.679 You know. It's they're often used as like the top tier example of 668 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:51.760 you know, a black right. So everyone has these these these thoughts that 669 00:53:51.800 --> 00:53:58.000 they go into these situations with, and oftentimes that clouds your judgment um things 670 00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:00.679 things that you know, you if you saw it with your friend, you'd 671 00:54:00.679 --> 00:54:05.719 be like, yo, that's that's that's not right, and that run run 672 00:54:05.800 --> 00:54:08.519 fast. But then you're in you're in a situation yourself, and you're like, 673 00:54:08.519 --> 00:54:12.719 well, you know that's not what they met. You know, that's 674 00:54:12.760 --> 00:54:15.800 not you know, so you make excuses for you We've been there. We've 675 00:54:15.840 --> 00:54:20.440 all been there, absolutely, um, So you know, I think that's 676 00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:23.400 a part of it. And you know what, interesting, interestingly enough, 677 00:54:23.559 --> 00:54:29.159 that is a perfect segue into what I mentioned earlier that I wanted to talk 678 00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:35.280 about. Right, So, there is this how would I call it Um, 679 00:54:35.480 --> 00:54:39.440 there's something called the halo effect. Have you heard of it? Okay? 680 00:54:39.559 --> 00:54:43.199 So for those of you out there that don't know, um, the 681 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:51.039 halo effect was first recognized by an American psychologist named Edward Thorndyke. I think 682 00:54:51.039 --> 00:54:53.480 his name is in like nineteen twenty so this has been around, right, 683 00:54:54.280 --> 00:55:00.400 And basically, according to Psychology Today dot com, this is their defin nition. 684 00:55:00.840 --> 00:55:05.920 The halo effect involves people over relying on first impressions. It can lead 685 00:55:05.960 --> 00:55:12.159 to poor judgments and affect choices, for example, when recruiting new employees or 686 00:55:12.239 --> 00:55:17.360 choosing a romantic partner. And it goes on to say that it's basically a 687 00:55:17.480 --> 00:55:23.519 type of cognitive bias in which our overall impression of a person influences how we 688 00:55:23.719 --> 00:55:30.320 feel and think about their character. And one of the examples they use is 689 00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:37.079 very relatable for me. It's scary. So they use an example to say, 690 00:55:37.719 --> 00:55:44.119 you create your overall impression of the person right based on one specific trait. 691 00:55:44.760 --> 00:55:47.880 Right, So for example, you say, oh, you know, 692 00:55:49.039 --> 00:55:53.239 he or she is so nice, and that now impacts your evaluations of them 693 00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:57.800 moving forward, right, And because they're nice, maybe that means they're also 694 00:55:57.960 --> 00:56:00.320 smart, or because they're smart. That means that the nice. So basically, 695 00:56:00.320 --> 00:56:05.599 you take the perception of a single trait and carry it over to how 696 00:56:05.679 --> 00:56:10.760 you perceive other aspects of that person. And what's scary about that is, 697 00:56:12.880 --> 00:56:15.639 if you think about it, it's giving very much how to attract a narcissist 698 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:21.400 volume one, you know. And it's funny. Oddly enough, I have 699 00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:25.000 received a lot of messages on Instagram asking me to do an episode on narcissism. 700 00:56:25.400 --> 00:56:29.719 So I'm thinking of it, but you know, I want to make 701 00:56:29.719 --> 00:56:32.239 sure that I either have someone that's an expert and really knows what they're talking 702 00:56:32.239 --> 00:56:37.079 about, because I feel like the word is also thrown around and used incorrectly. 703 00:56:37.400 --> 00:56:40.360 But anyway, back to the halo effect, I think it's scary in 704 00:56:40.400 --> 00:56:46.480 a way that it could make you a target for or to attract narcissists. 705 00:56:46.559 --> 00:56:51.360 So I just wanted to know your thoughts on it. Obviously you said you've 706 00:56:51.360 --> 00:56:54.280 heard of it already, but what your thoughts are on that? So I 707 00:56:54.320 --> 00:57:04.760 agree that that's the thing. The example I'll use is, right, the 708 00:57:04.760 --> 00:57:09.360 the average guy that gets the really hot girl. Okay, you get this, 709 00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:15.840 this this wonderfully attractive woman that you probably don't think you deserve necessarily or 710 00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:19.880 can't figure out how you got or even if you do, right, this 711 00:57:19.960 --> 00:57:27.400 person's looks, immediately you make assumptions about this person's character. Right, You're 712 00:57:27.400 --> 00:57:30.639 like, oh, she's too pretty to do that. What do you mean 713 00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:36.760 she has to be nice or you know, or or you're blinded Yeah, 714 00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:39.599 or you're blinded by that, right. Um, And like you said, 715 00:57:39.800 --> 00:57:45.000 you use that or even even in even in the example, you gave up 716 00:57:45.039 --> 00:57:51.800 the person being nice. Nice nice people. Nice people can be jerked nice, 717 00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:57.880 right. Nice people can can have horrible habits. Nice people can have, 718 00:57:58.360 --> 00:58:02.840 you know, terrible communication skills. Right. These are key things that 719 00:58:04.440 --> 00:58:08.239 will make or break a relationship. Ye. So you know, because you're 720 00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:15.360 nice, I assume that your intentions are always good when they may not be 721 00:58:15.840 --> 00:58:21.079 or you know, so so I definitely think the halo effect. I think 722 00:58:21.119 --> 00:58:25.360 we all experience it. Um, we absolutely go into a lot of these 723 00:58:25.400 --> 00:58:31.960 these relationships with that bias, especially in that quote unquote honeymoon period when you 724 00:58:31.960 --> 00:58:37.760 guys are just starting to kick it and you know, you you're you're just 725 00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:42.079 learning about each other, so everyone's putting their best foot forward. Yeah, 726 00:58:42.159 --> 00:58:45.800 right, absolutely, Now let me ask you this though. Do you think 727 00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:51.039 the halo effect can ever be like a positive thing or is it always a 728 00:58:51.039 --> 00:58:57.239 bias that distorts our perception or basically our perception of others. Well, I 729 00:58:57.239 --> 00:59:00.599 think I don't think it's a I don't think it's always negative, right, 730 00:59:00.599 --> 00:59:05.440 because giving someone the benefit of the doubt, no matter what it's based on, 731 00:59:06.079 --> 00:59:10.800 could work out to be a good thing. I think it becomes a 732 00:59:10.880 --> 00:59:17.599 negative thing when it, you know, takes your perception of all of the 733 00:59:17.719 --> 00:59:25.079 other surrounding things. So if you're looking at it and all you're hyper focused 734 00:59:25.079 --> 00:59:30.480 on is that thing, without paying attention to these five things that are happening 735 00:59:30.480 --> 00:59:35.800 over here. You know, once it starts to cloud that judgment, that's 736 00:59:35.840 --> 00:59:39.000 when it becomes negative. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, 737 00:59:39.199 --> 00:59:44.599 you know, this person is nice. I don't really think they you know, 738 00:59:44.760 --> 00:59:47.159 meant to do this or you know, and I don't think this is 739 00:59:47.239 --> 00:59:52.360 necessarily their character. Yeah, you know, giving better a doubt. I 740 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.440 don't think it's bad for that. It's it's when you really start to you 741 00:59:57.440 --> 01:00:01.599 know, it starts to really cloud your judgment and you know, and you 742 01:00:02.000 --> 01:00:07.400 start to not listen to that gut feeling that is oftentimes right because you're like, 743 01:00:07.599 --> 01:00:10.320 oh, they're waiting, but they're so nice. You know, they 744 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:15.360 made me cookies all all that. You know, how could they do such 745 01:00:15.400 --> 01:00:19.039 a thing. Yeah, well you you missed the part where they were doing 746 01:00:19.880 --> 01:00:22.920 X, Y and Z to the waiter, or they were mean to you 747 01:00:22.960 --> 01:00:27.159 know, their sibling over here, or they don't call their mother, or 748 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:31.440 they don't you know, like all of these different things that you're missing out 749 01:00:31.519 --> 01:00:37.639 on because you're just like, well, they're so nice. Yep. And 750 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:43.079 it's it's interesting because I gave the example of you know, relationship wise, 751 01:00:43.559 --> 01:00:47.000 but all the time thinking of it, I think the halo effect can also 752 01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:53.840 be a factor in toxic masculinity and other harmful like societal or cultural norms that 753 01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:58.199 affect men, like we were talking about earlier. So like, for example, 754 01:00:58.760 --> 01:01:02.480 you know, are men who conform to certain stereotypes like being physically strong 755 01:01:02.639 --> 01:01:07.599 or emotionally stoic more likely to be seen as good or desirable by other people. 756 01:01:07.920 --> 01:01:14.679 Potentially, right, it has the potential to to um, you know, 757 01:01:15.280 --> 01:01:19.719 affect all types of relationships. So it's not just necessarily you know, 758 01:01:20.159 --> 01:01:24.719 a you know, a relationship of you know, love interests or who have 759 01:01:24.880 --> 01:01:30.039 you. It can be friendships. You know, sometimes you don't see that 760 01:01:30.079 --> 01:01:36.880 this friend secretly hates on you because they're always down to go hang out. 761 01:01:37.159 --> 01:01:40.199 That that's probably it. That's probably the number one thing I would say people 762 01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:45.400 miss, right, that friend that's always is always ready to go and they 763 01:01:45.519 --> 01:01:49.559 you think they're the writer. You miss, You miss those small comments, 764 01:01:49.639 --> 01:01:52.400 you miss when they're not when they're not cheering for you when they should be 765 01:01:52.519 --> 01:01:58.639 chearing for you, right, you miss you miss those little subtle signs of 766 01:01:59.400 --> 01:02:02.159 this person I really liked me, you know, they just they like to 767 01:02:02.199 --> 01:02:07.079 hang out, but they're not really having my best interests at heart. So, 768 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:10.199 you know, I think it can translate into work, It can translate 769 01:02:10.239 --> 01:02:20.519 into many different avenues. That definitely, definitely, And so I guess I 770 01:02:20.599 --> 01:02:24.800 just wanted to share some of the recommended ways that psychology today says to minimize 771 01:02:24.880 --> 01:02:28.239 the halo effects, because, as you said, it can show up in 772 01:02:28.760 --> 01:02:31.000 many different aspects of our life. So even if we have it done pat 773 01:02:31.079 --> 01:02:36.480 for relationships, we might not for you know, work relationships. Maybe it's 774 01:02:36.480 --> 01:02:42.320 just our interpersonal relationships. So they have three recommended ways to minimize the halo 775 01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:46.800 effect, and that is to be aware. And they said this might involve 776 01:02:47.239 --> 01:02:52.440 you know, noticing those biases and you know, certain impressions. Basically what 777 01:02:52.519 --> 01:02:57.239 you said that people leave on you and really take heed to that, you 778 01:02:57.239 --> 01:03:02.159 know, just just have your awareness really up and really know or be aware 779 01:03:02.159 --> 01:03:06.280 of what's going on in your surrounding. So that doesn't just mean like look 780 01:03:06.400 --> 01:03:08.519 left and look right right, but like you said, pay attention to the 781 01:03:08.559 --> 01:03:13.519 things that they're saying, but even more so, pay attention to the things 782 01:03:13.519 --> 01:03:19.079 that they're doing their actions. Right. The second one is to slow down, 783 01:03:19.760 --> 01:03:22.800 and essentially it's just basically saying like take your time, you know, 784 01:03:22.880 --> 01:03:28.079 don't rush to get to know someone. Don't rush to maybe choose a certain 785 01:03:28.119 --> 01:03:30.960 candidate for your company. If you're doing interviews and you want a lot of 786 01:03:31.000 --> 01:03:35.639 people, don't just rush to pick someone because they want the job so much. 787 01:03:35.880 --> 01:03:38.079 Don't rush to day to a guy just because he's attracted to you, 788 01:03:38.199 --> 01:03:42.960 right, because it might be a thing where you're just like a check on 789 01:03:43.039 --> 01:03:45.760 his list, like Okay, he got you, and then what and you're 790 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.440 now head over heels for him, right, So slow down And the last 791 01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:58.480 one be systematic and basically they're saying that you should try to use analytical reasoning 792 01:03:58.559 --> 01:04:03.400 skills and just you know, have a if you have a list, right, 793 01:04:03.440 --> 01:04:05.920 And the list is a whole other thing, because some people have a 794 01:04:06.000 --> 01:04:12.440 quote unquote unrealistic list. But again that's for another time, because what's realistic 795 01:04:12.480 --> 01:04:15.360 to you may not be realistic to somebody else, right, and vice versa. 796 01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:21.239 But I think everybody has a list of like absolute no nos, like 797 01:04:21.360 --> 01:04:27.679 there's no compromise, and if it's something to do with someone's character, I 798 01:04:27.840 --> 01:04:31.360 support that, right. So one of the examples they give is if you 799 01:04:31.920 --> 01:04:38.199 are dating or getting to know somebody and you realize that they're a little bit 800 01:04:38.239 --> 01:04:44.119 aggressive, right, and you think, well, maybe in this long term 801 01:04:44.199 --> 01:04:47.320 relationship, I don't know what that's going to cause. It's probably going to 802 01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:51.320 cause a lot of issues. Like any type of irrational behavior should be like, 803 01:04:53.239 --> 01:04:56.360 you know, an army of red flags to you, because if they're 804 01:04:56.400 --> 01:04:59.119 like that, no, it's only going to get worse. So even if 805 01:04:59.159 --> 01:05:02.800 they look like Barsko Joe or whoever your celebrity crush is, it goes back 806 01:05:02.800 --> 01:05:08.400 to awareness, like be aware of that whatever they're showing you in the beginning, 807 01:05:08.400 --> 01:05:11.880 what's the saying whatever is the issue in the beginning usually ends up being 808 01:05:11.920 --> 01:05:14.960 the problem in the end or something like that. Yeah, something something like 809 01:05:15.000 --> 01:05:17.440 that. But I get where you're going with it. Yeah, yeah, 810 01:05:17.480 --> 01:05:20.480 so so yeah, I just wanted to share those I would agree. I 811 01:05:20.480 --> 01:05:24.679 mean it all for me, the way I approach most things in life is 812 01:05:25.679 --> 01:05:30.960 being objective. Right. I don't necessarily keep a list. I definitely do 813 01:05:30.079 --> 01:05:33.400 have. I mean I have had a list in the past, but um, 814 01:05:34.599 --> 01:05:39.559 I just I look at things for exactly what they are, right. 815 01:05:39.679 --> 01:05:45.360 I try to control any kind of you know, preconceived notions about things. 816 01:05:45.920 --> 01:05:53.639 Um, I kind of comes right, And if you are aware and objective, 817 01:05:54.360 --> 01:05:58.679 you know, I think that's starting. That starts to lessen your chances 818 01:05:58.840 --> 01:06:02.000 of falling victim to some of this stuff. All right, Yeah, she's 819 01:06:02.039 --> 01:06:05.719 cute, but let me just say, she's just a person, right, 820 01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:10.880 Right, She's a person with a nice face. Right, how is she 821 01:06:11.039 --> 01:06:14.400 asking? Person? Did she just yell at the waiter? Again? I 822 01:06:14.480 --> 01:06:17.039 use the waiter thing as an example a lot because I'm one of those people. 823 01:06:17.519 --> 01:06:20.360 The way you treat people in public, it says a lot about you. 824 01:06:20.440 --> 01:06:26.320 So I definitely pay attention to that. You brought up the aggression thing, 825 01:06:26.719 --> 01:06:30.800 you know, like, yeah, some some situations call for aggression, 826 01:06:30.840 --> 01:06:34.760 but like, let me objectively look at why you are aggressive in this situation 827 01:06:34.880 --> 01:06:41.559 and how that could potentially apply to me. Yeah. So yeah, those 828 01:06:41.639 --> 01:06:45.440 psychologists they got it right. They know they know what they're doing, right. 829 01:06:47.800 --> 01:06:55.679 Okay, So finally I am going to ask you five random rapid fire 830 01:06:55.760 --> 01:07:00.440 questions. And the rules are you have to say the first thing that comes 831 01:07:00.440 --> 01:07:02.960 to mind. You cannot go back, you cannot pass. You have to 832 01:07:03.000 --> 01:07:06.840 say exactly what comes to mind. And I like to tell my guests the 833 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:12.920 first answer is always the right answer. Oh okay, all right, shoot, 834 01:07:13.880 --> 01:07:18.599 all right. Question number one, Name the last song? I guess 835 01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:23.079 this is not really a question, but name the last song you listen to 836 01:07:25.559 --> 01:07:30.920 Want Some Needs by Drake and a Little Baby. Oh I love that song. 837 01:07:33.079 --> 01:07:39.760 What is the most important value that you have instilled in your daughters that 838 01:07:39.800 --> 01:07:44.239 you hope they take with them throughout their life. Honesty and accountability. M 839 01:07:45.119 --> 01:07:49.519 love that. If you could tell thirteen year old Donald one thing, what 840 01:07:49.559 --> 01:07:54.639 would you tell him? Pick up a camera, like, keep it in 841 01:07:54.679 --> 01:08:03.320 your hand and practice it and some ads golf clubs love that. Um, 842 01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:12.760 what makes you laugh the hardest life. Yeah, life funny, man, 843 01:08:12.880 --> 01:08:18.600 Like it's it's so unpredictable and you have so little control over it that it 844 01:08:18.720 --> 01:08:23.319 is to me one of the funniest things. Like life is just life just 845 01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:30.279 does its own thing. Life is gonna lie. Okay, And finally, 846 01:08:31.720 --> 01:08:34.880 I want you to complete this sentence. I prefer to say it like this 847 01:08:35.039 --> 01:08:41.840 then asking as a question. As a form of self care, I uh, 848 01:08:43.000 --> 01:08:50.680 take the time I need away from like the noise. Um. I 849 01:08:50.840 --> 01:08:57.520 make it a point to find every day. If it's ten minutes, if 850 01:08:57.520 --> 01:09:00.039 it's an hour, like my wife gets on me, I'll just I'll sit 851 01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:05.720 out on the balcony for thirty minutes after we get our toddler to sleep and 852 01:09:05.800 --> 01:09:10.920 just I'm just there by myself quiet. I just I need that time. 853 01:09:12.079 --> 01:09:15.279 I need that time to to to think about the day. I needed to 854 01:09:15.359 --> 01:09:18.520 decompress. I needed to just sit there and not do anything. Yeah, 855 01:09:18.560 --> 01:09:24.239 it's important, Yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay, So before 856 01:09:24.239 --> 01:09:28.920 you go, I wanted to know if you can share with everyone where they 857 01:09:28.920 --> 01:09:32.840 can find you, purchase your photography and all that good stuff. So I 858 01:09:32.880 --> 01:09:40.439 am on Instagram, Ghost Gone Wild. Um. I also have a site 859 01:09:40.439 --> 01:09:46.039 where you can purchase artwork. You can book photography services at Donald Darling dot 860 01:09:46.039 --> 01:09:51.039 com. Um, you can find me there. And yeah, those are 861 01:09:51.079 --> 01:09:54.720 those are the two main things. And if you're in SoCal Or you might 862 01:09:54.800 --> 01:10:00.399 run into me with a camera one day. I love that. Well, 863 01:10:00.439 --> 01:10:05.399 thank you so much for coming and sharing such valuable insight on a myriad of 864 01:10:05.439 --> 01:10:09.560 things. You know, we talked a little photography and little halo effect, 865 01:10:09.880 --> 01:10:14.479 a little that now see, you know, a mix of everything, which 866 01:10:14.479 --> 01:10:18.680 I think is really indicative of our friendship. And I just think it's really 867 01:10:18.720 --> 01:10:23.720 great to have men on here and to talk about just things that, like 868 01:10:23.760 --> 01:10:27.479 you said, men don't really get to talk about, but particularly men in 869 01:10:27.640 --> 01:10:30.920 our culture in the diaspora, right. And it's fun, it's jovial. 870 01:10:31.039 --> 01:10:36.239 It's no man versus woman anything. But I love the answers that you gave, 871 01:10:36.680 --> 01:10:41.800 and I love that they were more they were your perspective. But you're 872 01:10:41.880 --> 01:10:45.000 not telling anyone what they should do, right, You're giving your perspective, 873 01:10:45.039 --> 01:10:48.239 And hopefully somebody will hear this and either say, oh my gosh, I 874 01:10:48.239 --> 01:10:51.239 think the same way or WHOA, I never thought about it like that. 875 01:10:51.359 --> 01:10:57.960 So I just really appreciate your insight and you know, you're sharing different aspects 876 01:10:57.960 --> 01:11:01.319 of your life and especially the part of you know, just trying new things 877 01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:06.399 golfing, mountain biking, things that maybe twenty years ago you would have never 878 01:11:06.520 --> 01:11:10.359 thought to do or would have laughed at the idea of you doing that, 879 01:11:10.520 --> 01:11:13.680 and know you find that it brings you so much peace and joy. So 880 01:11:14.000 --> 01:11:18.199 hopefully even that, if it's just even that will inspire somebody man or woman, 881 01:11:18.840 --> 01:11:23.600 child, dog, whoever, to try something new, you know, 882 01:11:23.920 --> 01:11:26.479 And I love that. I love that for you, I love that for 883 01:11:26.479 --> 01:11:30.079 our listeners, I love that for everybody. Well, thank you for having 884 01:11:30.119 --> 01:11:36.279 me. I love the podcast and enough to hear the share my perspective. 885 01:11:36.399 --> 01:11:40.159 And you know, like you said, hopefully somebody gets something out of it. 886 01:11:40.239 --> 01:11:43.319 If not, you can totally say I'm crazy. It's okay.