The o' Chilei effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like
you Now and Now and Media Tech. Twenty sixth day of October twenty twenty
three, allegedly, according to that thing we call a calendar, and your
humble host, being one tooth shorter than he was the last time he spoke
to you, is live here on the Ocelli dot com radio network, but
of course most of you are catching the podcast further on down the stream,
et cetera, and so on and so forth. Anyway, gonna try to
limit my talking a bit tonight. I know I always say that and never
do it, but believe me, I'm gonna have to. Uh. Anyway,
good thing, because I have a guy who actually came up in an
email discussion just this morning. Weird email discussion that's starting to go around because
well they said I should have a panel of professors. Okay, And people
often refer to Larry Hancock as a professor, although I'm not sure if you
were ever a professor, Larry, You've been many things, but have you
been a professor in the past? You know, this is not like have
you ever been a part of the Communist Party or anything? But I mean,
although to some people who would be okay, joking done, the thing
is, you know, they said I should have a panel of experts and
it should be the you know, the the event with the professor's panel regarding
JFK. And more than one person brought this up and that we should sort
of have a panel discussion after what goes on in Dallas, and I thought
it might be a good idea, but I don't know if I can schedule
enough of the people that they considered professors, whether indeed they were professors or
not together on one show. But I'm gonna try it, guys, just
so you know, and would like to invite Larry right now to join in
on that where it's like the best experts we can assemble kind of on a
show to recap where it is we are actually at after sixty years. So
it's a floating idea right now. Might not come to fruition Larry, but
we have plenty still to talk about even without that. And Larry, of
course, if you go to larrydsh Hancock dot com or Larryhyphenhancock dot com,
you can follow his blog. You can follow a lot of stuff. And
oh, by the way, we'll both be at the Lancer Conference, which
does say it's partially presented by Larry Hancock as well. Over there if you
go to the links and you will see links in the show notes here to
the JFK Lancer event which runs from November nineteen. Oh, excuse me,
from November seventeen to nineteen. Pardon me again, from November seventeen to nineteen
this year coming up, just a couple of weeks from now, and Larry
will be indeed a presenter, somebody involved in the conference as he has been
for many years, et cetera, et cetera. And guess what, I'll
be there too, And we're planning on making this one very different and yet
with a lot of familiar faith is a lot of good stuff, and the
schedule looks promising. But tonight we're going to get into a specific subject that
I think hasn't been covered adequately by people that usually even cover this. But
before we get there, Larry, how are you doing tonight, sir?
I'm doing well tonight, Chuck. I'm feeling good. I'm looking forward to
the conference, looking forward to being in Dallas again. So I'm a good
jape. Excellent, You know, I don't think there's a bus tour this
time, but there is a banquet, and I'm planning on attending everything I
can this time, unlike last time. But you know, and hopefully you
and I will get a chance to even I don't know, sit at the
bar here and there. In fact, that'll be something coming up. But
anyway, Yeah, let's get to the topic at hand, because I think
this is important. And look, I know how my listeners take stuff.
I know exactly where their minds are going to go when we bring certain things
up. So let's cut to the chase. The plots preceding Dallas, Right,
we often discuss what's number one, the Chicago plot, and it is
one of the more expansive things due to the work of Edwin Black, due
to the work of Well the book by Abraham Bolden, the work of Whether
You Like It or Not, Lamar Waldron and Tom Hartman. Right, this
has definitely been one of those things that has been discussed. If I remember,
way back, Prevailing Wins reprinted Edwin Black's article from the Chicago Monthly in
their interesting releases that they used to send out the plot before the plot.
Right, But we're not going to talk about Chicago tonight, because I think
a lot of people have done that. In The Men Who Killed Kennedy,
the original released series, right, the six parts, that was a huge
thing and was I think started around the twenty fifth anniversary, but then you
know, was completed much later and went on for year. He is Nigel
Turner. You know, he presented a lot of interesting stuff, and you
could almost say at that point in time he presented nearly anything of major interest
in the case that the public could have gotten their hands on. It seemed
like, well anyway, One of the things they presented in there which has
stuck with people is this idea that there was a guy named Willie Somerset who
was an informant for the FBI. And again, guys, don't worry,
I'm gonna shut up real soon. Here Willie Somerset is talking to this very
curious character who later on comes up in other places. Some people try to
claim he was in Dearly Plaza, YadA, YadA. But point is there
was an interesting fellow there that he was talking to. And the idea that
somebody said that the Kennedy thing was going to get taken care of because it
was in the workings and so on and so forth. Maybe even the suggestion
that there might be a rifle from an office building, alarm bells going off
in people's heads if they hear about this later, because Texas school book Depository
le rb Oswald a rifle seems like elements of the story. And by the
way, this was recorded before the assassination. And we've talked about the Secret
Service, especially recently with Paul Landis blah blah blah. But what about the
threats? I mean, I brought up Chicago, of course, on this
show, I talk about Florida, and I also talk about Los Angeles.
There may have been others that we don't know about. There were constantly threats
being assessed, but some were more serious than others. And yet there might
be a lot more to say than what we saw in The Men Who Killed
Kennedy regarding things going on in Florida. And oh, by the way,
just so happens to be where jam Wave was, and oh, by the
way, just happens to be where a lot of anti Castro Cubans and well
a lot of other Cubans had wound up immigrating to any seems like the real
hot bed of possible activity, and people have pointed many different sticks in many
different directions here regarding this. There's a lot that could be said about the
state of Florida, what was going on, regarding the Cuban exiles, the
Cuban immigrants, the Cuban expats, whatever you want to call them. And
yet there are people that really focus on it and others who just kind of
dropped the ball. And hey, let's go back to the Chicago plot one
more time, because we've got a possible you know, suspect here, and
we've got a former marine and we've got Thomas Arthur Valet is the same guy
I just mentioned twice already. Either way, We've also got anti Castro Cubans
and Abraham Bolden's story and I don't know, but what about Florida? Is
there more to it? And I'm obviously setting it up so you can knock
it down. Is there more to it than the Willie Somerset informant tape?
Okay, that that was my inswer I'm on now right, that's yes,
I think, I think, And a couple of things, high level things
jump out of this if I try to discuss it in a bit of detail
and that is that so much. So much was when the original stories were
written about Chicago or uh, Miami. Lots were written over years that made
these things very mysterious that have stayed in circulation. And the more mysterious things
are, the more people tend to come up and talk to them and and
they never get put to bed. Okay, Uh, if we were to
approach any of the cities that you just mentioned, Chuck, with what we
know now, we would probably tell a different story and a much simpler story
for one of the things when when you get to Miami, what we what
We have two real sources in Miami, one Willie Summerman set who is in
a recording talking about getting a gun and talking about people who might shoot Kennedy.
It's important to remember that we really now fully understand why that recording was
made and what happened after it was made. When I first started into this,
one of the big mysteries that everybody talked about is how could they have
that recording in Miami? And it must be a conspiracy in a plot because
nobody did anything about it, nobody followed up on it. You know,
there's part of this master conspiracy. We're not even going to try to deal
with threats against Kennedy. Well, the reason the tape was made in the
first place is it was made as part of a sting. Was Somerset participating
on a fellow who was going to be selling a rifle to be used by
some of the people at Somerset was in contact with to assassinate Martin Luther King.
Long story there is to wester and I cover it in our books on
the m Okay Assassin assassination, and i'mnoxious detail, but that's the reason why
that tape was made in the first place. That had nothing to do with
JFK. It's just the remarks about Kennedy are just remarks that came out of
that conversation. However, it is important to know, as we now know
that that was reported to the Secret Service, it was reported to the FBI.
The FBI did go out and interview the people whose names were mentioned on
the tape. In their standard classic fashion. They'd walk up to the door
and say, hey, we understand that you guys might kill the president.
Is there anything to that? And that you know the guys would deny it
and everybody would walk away. That's almost the way it comes off. You
know, what can the FBI do. It's like they show up, knock
on the door, the people deny that have any evil intentions against anyone,
and we're done. The FBI did keep certain people under surveillance in the radical
racist community, and so the people that were mentioned were not unknown to them.
They knew where to find them, they knew the sort of things that
they were about, which generally didn't have anything to do with JFK as a
as a primary he was on a long list of Jews and capitalists and you
know, freedom bus writers and et cetera. However, we also know that
so the lead did get pursued by the FBI. The lead got reported to
Secret Service because on that tape it's mentioned and in's someplace that Joseph Miltier,
who is on the tape involved in the tape and mentioned it, mentions that
the assassination, the attempt on JFK might occur in Washington, d C.
Because of that and the way the Secret Service operated, this was put in
a threat file. But the way the Secret Service did their work or they
compartmentalized it to the extent that there were no generic threats. There's a threat
in worship in DC. There's a threat in Chicago, there's a threat in
Los Angeles. We put it in the folder, and if the president is
going to that city, we'll pull that folder and oh, gosh, well
there may be a threat that's been reported. Will go check these people out.
Obviously, that was a totally nonsensical way to handle It's like they could
not conceive that there would be an exexstential threat by a group that or an
individual that could carry it out anywhere in the nation. But that's the way
they handle it now. Just for an aside, here, Joseph Miltier,
who is the guy that I referenced and didn't name, is, as you
mentioned here, someone who is a credible threat in general, because he was
apparently going around participating it in some way or other in various plots to assassinate
people, different people, maybe possibly other civil rights leaders, doctor King specifically.
Right, So it's not as though this is a guy who's a random
name who comes up here, and yeah, he was associated with people who
had they had long list, the list of people, and the FBI was
well aware that they were actually training rifle squads to kill a list of people
JFK, RFK, basically major Jewish investment figures. Financial figures were high on
the list. Actually, they were higher on their list than the civil rights
leaders. I mean, these people had a shopping list and they were quite
serious about this. So absolutely he's not one that you're going to laugh at.
And everybody he's associated with is on the FBI's you know, basically surveillance
list with good reason, because this guy's going around literally, you know,
trying to raise money, right, He's he's lobbying people to raise money,
even to put toward these efforts, to put toward these guys, to train,
to prepare, to lay things out, to get rid of a whole
bunch of people that they think are a threat to Well, let's just be
blunt White America. And Stu, you know, Stuart Wexler, who is
also gonna present at Lancer, right, you know, co authored things with
you about this specifically, and so this is of interest. But it goes
far beyond just this one mention here on the tape. As I was saying,
so go ahead, please continue, Yeah, and it really comes out
as a diversion. I mean a lot of these things once you understand the
context and who's talking about what and what was really done about it? No,
it's no longer mysterious. It is a diversion from the real, known,
serious threat that the Secret Service was dealing with in Miami. And it's
kind of amazing to me that the one absolutely documented official threat, forget about
la forget about Chicago, the one place that the Secret Service was so concerned
about an attack on JFK occurring that they went to the CIA and asked for
their help. I mean that almost never happens, was in Miami, because
they had a series of threats against JFK coming out of Miami. To them,
the Secret Service did that there would be attacks carried out on the President
during his appearance in Miami, and they were very targeted. They were from
a certain segment of the very radical Cuban exile community that was extremely irate JFK
over the Cuban missile crisis at the time, you know that, So it
was very focused. And it's amazing to me that that kind of gets put
on the same level as all these other threats, right, and all these
other incidents where the Secret Service was so concerned in Miami that first of all,
they canceled a car ride that JFK had and rather than taking him from
his arrival point to his hotel in a car, they put him in a
helicopter. They went to the Secret Service and said, could you help us
to sign some of your people, some of your intelligence people locally. We
need to put all these folks under surveillance, and the CIA obliged them.
And even with all of that, there was an actual dynamite bomb planted along
the route that JFK was going to take to a speaking appointment. So we
have an actual attempt, and there was a documented report of a sniper in
the area where he was appearing. So these are real life, hardcore official
reports, no speculation, and yet they don't stand out from the noise.
You know, if you were looking at this on some kind of a media
said, well, good heavens, then obviously the real known threat to the
president is coming out of the Cuban exile community, which is go ahead,
sorry, the dynamite bombing. You're referencing the nineteen sixty attempt, aren't you.
In nineteen sixty three, there was actually another dynamite bomb was found along
as motorcy route. There's actually a newspaper story out. Okay, that's another
one because in Palm Beach, Florida, right, there was a guy in
pablic who was charged and caught. And you know that's I believe the infamous
story that he saw the kids and decided to change his mind actually was pretty
close. And yeah, he tried to position himself to blow up Kennedy.
This is why I keep saying Florida, because it wasn't just Miami where threats
had been you know, had had been a credible, very credible in motion.
That's a near miss right there in nineteen sixty right, and yeah,
absolutely so. But yeah, so this is a different that in nineteen fall
of nineteen sixty three, two different actual threats on site. You know,
they didn't catch anybody, they were reported they did find the explosives. I
you know, I give the link to the newspaper story. So it seems
like that should stand out head and shoulders above anything else if you're talking about
a risk to the president that you can attribute to a certain group of individuals.
If I were in the Secret Service, and it's kind of like,
wait a minute, where are we going to go where some of these other
Wherever we're going, we need to watch for these kind of people. And
what makes this really interesting to me, Chuck, is again people don't seem
to relate it. You mentioned the Los Angeles threat, which came, as
I think from Richard K. Snagel in some detail, and which he attributed
specifically to a couple of very radical Cuban exiles in Chicago. The real threat
that Abraham Bolden talks about is not Thomas Valley. That was completely independent.
It was about a report that his Secret Service office received from the FBI about
two people that were traveling again Cuban exiles, radicals that were traveling in Chicago
that might be considered a threat. So if you really tied back, if
I was sitting there, you know as of October at Secret Service Protective Service
Headquarters, I would be looking at these things like there's a common factor going
on. We really need to if we're going to focus on somebody. It's
a threat, it's common in all these locations, and it just kept getting
worse. Something. You know, by the time it's in Miami, it
really is not only ex extential, you know it's real and you have real
evidence that somebody's trying to carry it out. Yet when we follow this on
with to Dallas. Their protocols were such that when they go to open the
folder, the PRS folder for Dallas, there's nothing about a threat in Dallas
from anybody except from the right wing. The people who had protested against Stevenson.
Right, the people who had chased Lyndon Johnson down the street, who
who had chased the UN ambassador down the street and hit them over the head
with placards. This is the threat we're going to look at. Because people
have happened in Dallas before. We can't bring anything in, So we're going
to be concerned about people that hit folks with signs rather than people that had
dynamite and rifles in Miami. Right, people that were making themselves obvious by
printing stuff in newspapers right that they wanted him, you know, and handing
out flyers that they wanted for treason, this kind of stuff, Right,
This is what they were looking at and not you know, hey, maybe
there's guys with dynamite and oh, by the way, how is it that
anti Castro Cubans are somehow involved here in Chicago? And also, I mean
in Miami, it would make perfect sense. Proximity. Again, this is
about proximity too, and the Bay of Pig still being a thing that carried
negative sentimentality among the Cuban community in general. Right, So it seems to
me as though, you know, again, there's a whole lot more to
be said about all over the state of Florida, specifically the places he's going.
But we've had a whole history here going back already. I mean,
he wasn't even actually sworn in as president yet when this bombing attempt, the
one I was talking about was first made, right because I think that was
December of sixty which he's sworn in in January sixty one. So you know,
here we go. There are things going on now that's not tied to
the Bay Pigs obviously, but what's going on here and here we go,
it's well beyond just the Summerset recording, which again is startling because it seems
to give a preview in a way, right, in a loose sort of
way, to what the official story would be later. But there's a whole
lot more going on. So I find this interesting, especially when you know,
we got treated to the details from the Kennedy detail, right, and
we're listening now to you know, our friend in the Secret Services giving a
new story about how you know, look at the very least he tampered with
some evidence by moving it by based on his admissions as to whether they're accurate
or not. Another story. It's selling a book pretty well. But nonetheless,
we have a whole thing going on with the Secret Service here, and
it almost seems reasonable that somebody at certain points said, maybe that suspicious activity
right there right the enemy within concept, because look, you got these guys
that were drinking the night before in Dallas, before the event that happened.
You have these clear you know, we're only looking at it after the fact,
but it seems like nobody took certain things seriously enough earlier on to track
down any greater threats, and there probably were many that it seems like,
you know, the independent researcher seems to be able to discover later, but
the Secret Service in real time trying to come up with threats. What are
they doing? Are they doing their job bad or are they doing their job
badly on purpose? Or is this just you know, a symptom of the
times. No agency could have foreseen any of this. I'm just saying it
opens up a whole lot of questions, doesn't it Yeah, I think,
and I think that's what it really does to me. That's why the Somerset
lead is important because we can track it. We now have the documents to
show how it was handled, and in knowing how it was handled, it
exposes a systemic weakness in Secret Service protection. And I think it directly addresses
the question you're talking about, Chuck in that now it's not a mystery or
at least personally a view as a mystery as to what was not done.
You know, was it intentional or was it an oversight? It was a
systemic problem that it was just the way that they handle threats. It was
they could not translate. They had no generic threat. They weren't looking at
They were looking at threats the way that the Secret Service always had somebody.
It's almost an up close and personal threat, you know, who's going to
step out and attack the president. They had never dealt with an organized attack
by multiple individuals. You know that it wasn't part of their protocol. They
could just they were setting there waiting for individuals to report threats that someone had
made against the president, and then they would go out and investigate them,
which is in one way. It's actually a very criminal justice approach, Like
we can't do we can't be proactive, right, we can't go out and
start shaking people down just because we suspect their threat. Now, if somebody
provides us a lead or some something is actionable, we can go. We
just can't get ahead of it. You know. That's and that's that is
true for law enforcement in general. Right, you know, you can't you
can't pull somebody in until the crime is committed, no matter. You can
try to do something aboard it to abort it. But it's just the way
they operated in Texas for example. I mean they did have a standing threat
that was reported on the Texas trip out of San Antonio, right, and
we know that that's in the files. Did they do any special protection in
San Antonio? Not as far as I can tell. What we're The real
hole that we have in all of this, and I think this is important,
is we don't have people spent a lot of time investigating the CIA and
the FBI and the Dallas Police Department as far as they're practices. Right,
you know, how do you how do you guys do your business? Why?
Why did you Why did nobody ever ask why did you not translate this
Miami threat to Dallas? Nobody ever asked that question. Nobody even made the
challenge. In fact, we don't have the files, the PRS files on
what was really been done. Vince Palamara quite frankly dug up the interesting fact
that at least one new individual who appears to have been almost like an intelligence
guy, was assigned to the presidential detail about this time. Was there a
reason for that? We don't know why it was brought on board. There's
some suspicion. Bent seemed to suggest that he may have been an electronics specialist.
Did somebody think someone was bugging the president? You know? But we
have no insight we know, for example, in Dallas, Okay, we
don't know what Headquarters told Dallas Secret Service of US to do. They weren't
part of the presidential detail, right did they? I'm told one of you
know, very few of them talked that much, but one of the Dallas
Fort Worth Secret Service detail guys said, oh, we had no orders,
We nothing special, no special duties. How can that be? You know?
Even the Dallas police I interviewed the guy who's a reserve intelligence officer.
I said, were you doing that day and said they had me over at
Black Panther headquarters watching them. Okay, well that's good, but in terms
of connecting the dots, there's a real hole on the Secret Service. You
know that did they do some things that we don't know about? Is that
why those trip records went missing? Was that mysterious or not? Or I
still don't know what's in them. People say, oh, they really didn't
go missing, but I can't find them. You know, we don't know
that they might not have been trying to do some things. Certainly the presidential
detail we know about, but we don't know about the rest of protective services,
because nobody ever focused on protective services like they did the CIA or the
FBI or Dallas police, right, and one could say that, look,
they were trying to deal with it as what has happened before. And the
idea that someone would attack the president from a distance outside of a couple of
shots that I know about taking it maybe Lincoln, you know, nobody knows,
and of course no Secret Service then not for presidential protection. Outside of
that, you don't have somebody taking a shot at a distance. Most of
these it would be attacks on the president, whether they were successful or they
were near successful, whether it's you know, Gerald Ford or it's the others.
You have people trying to attack close up, which is a different situation
from what occurs here in Dallas. Right. The idea that you have a
sniper from a distance is not something that was really the main focus, which
is weird. Yeah, you're right, totally right, Chuck. What it
strikes And this is my impression. My impression is that it's kind of the
old military thing about you always fight the next war based on the last one,
right, and that's what gets you in trouble. I think that's it.
With a Secret Service. They always prepared for future attacks as they had
based on what had happened before, and they just weren't up to anything other
than individual threats. And we can kind of see that in Chicago. Okay.
Separate from the Bolden and the Secret Service from the FBI, that whole
threat, totally separate is the fact that the Secret Service did get a report
from a guy who had talked to another guy and a Bowling Alley diner at
breakfast, and this guy was talking about something needed to be done about the
president. That was reported secret Service, and they did follow up on it.
They went out and did a covert call in his apartment. They arranged
for the police to pick him up and make sure he was in custody that
day. They were all over it. They could understand that, right.
I got a lead from a guy that says this guy might do something bad
against the president, and they handled it with their standard practices and neutralized him.
This is getting Valley pulled over, and you know he has this many
rounds in his trunk and all that stuff, and at least they have him
in custody at the time, etc. But separate from that is the other
threat, right, which is this thing you brought up before about there's a
couple of guys who are suspicious they have rifles. Right, And the report
gets a little hazy here regarding this, right, Well, not when it's
first. I think we're running too and I'll go out on the line.
And I was there when Abraham Bolden first told his story. I talked to
him in person. I heard him speak at Lancer. It was this real
straightforward story. He was the side of the case. He was in the
case. He heard the guys talking. A telex came in saying there are
a couple of guys traveling and they might represent a danger to the president,
and it kind of told them where to go to look for them. We
know where that was. That there was an apartment that they were staying at.
They went out to talk to them, and you know, okay,
just kind of like val We're going to go talk to him, see what's
going on. And when they went in the front door, these guys went
out the back door, okay. And there's nothing that says they found anything
in the room. But ultimately, and we don't know apparently that they did
get caught and they did get taken ultimately into Chicago PD. But yeah,
that's that's a complete and a very simple story, has nothing to do with
Vallei. And the two guys got caught and essentially or like Valley, were
neutralized. They were in custody that day and then because there was nothing to
charge them with, when the president didn't come, they were released. Right.
So I've written a lot about that, and we in different places,
and we actually even know the names because it was checked out by the FBI
and they came up with okay, this person, yes, had gone from
Miami to Chicago, and yes, we'd Conhier them a threat and anyway,
so to your point, though in essence, the same thing happened. They're
just disconnected. People were reported as being threats. The FBI communicated it at
the Secret Service, and between the Secret Service in the FBI, they kind
of took them off the street during the time they might have been a threat.
Did you address that? And tipping point, by the way, I
did, Yeah, okay, that's where I thought it was. Okay,
great, And by the way, that's yet again one of the many books
that you that you can find on Larry's website and on his you know,
bibliography so to speak. There the various books by the author and again taking
up a whole lot of space on my bookshelf as opposed to any other author,
more spaces than anybody else. But yeah, definitely, and that's one
I highly recommend. By the way, which is the last that's the last
thing you published on the assassination, right, that is that is I'm going
away from the book where oute what I'm doing these days is publishing monographs because
I just don't have the energy to deal with publishers anymore. But those like
you'll find Tipping Point on the Mary Ferrell website. Right, you'll find links
to other work that I've done, but there primarily am going to monograph route
because that just it's quicker. I can put it online. And you know
that's what That's what it's happening these days. No, and you're more interested
in getting the information out as opposed to adding another book to your author page
on Amazon. Yeah, I know they have room on the bookshelf anymore.
Well, there's that. I mean, you're taking up a lot of space
here. We're killing threes, Larry, I'm joking. Look, it's all
worth it. By the way, if you get a physic, I suggest
physical copies on all this stuff. But your work is continuing still too,
So let's not forget about that before we're done talking today, because part of
what you're going to present in Dallas are Now I'm not certain about everything you're
going to do, but would you mind going back over what it is that
you're going to be involved with in Dallas because one of those things I think
is absolutely necessary. Now. I did mention it with John Newman the other
night that I think it would be rate if a lot of people reevaluated the
character that we have all come to known know as Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay,
yeah, and that does come in. I'm actually I'm doing one presentation
and David Boyling is joining me. And David is doing one presentation and I'm
joining him. The presentation I'm playing lead on is basically the title of the
presentation is Entangling Lee Harvey Oswald, and that presentation will be speaking to what
we think we've found three different levels of what I'm calling entanglement with Oswald in
nineteen sixty three, being entangled both by activities that are happening within the Special
Affairs staff of the CIA, other activities that are happening within the dre operating
on its own agenda, make it to make itself look good with the CIA
and keep their funding. And thirdly tanglement which led him into the actual not
into the conspiracy, but into being a patsy of the conspiracy. So that'll
be one presentation is on entanglement. The other presentation, which David is leading
is Sylvia Odio and another look at the Sylvia Odio story, who her visitors
were, why she was being visited. In my view, David has found
some explosive new information as to why Sylvia Odio was far more important to a
CIA story at the time than we've ever known up to date. How that
connects Sylvia Odio all the way from the United Nations to the Cuban consulate in
Mexico City. And so we will be talking about an analysis of the visit
and these new connections of Sylvia and who we think her visitors most probably were.
And then finally I'll be kind of keynoting the banquet and introducing kind of
trying to sum up the last many decades of JFK research in about ten minutes.
And we know how brief I always am, so that should work.
Well, there you go. Well, look, before we depart from these
particulars of what you're going to be presenting, would you mind doing me a
favor. I know this is you know, going to put you to sleep
for a moment, but remind people about who Sylvia Odio is, what it
is that's important because you know somebody who's not let's just say, different levels
of how far read into the case you are. Sylvia Odio may be a
name that people don't recognize one or two They might know it from the JFK
film or something, and say to themselves. I think there was this lady
that was visited by Lee RB Oswald, and there's a place where he was
spotted, according to the summation given by the Garrison character in the movie.
But I mean, could you give us a thumbnail sketch as to why that's
interesting, the timing of it, etc. Sylvia Odio came to the attention
of the Warren Commission and later the HSCA because it was reported to the FBI
that she had told people that she'd had a visit from a couple of mysterious,
suspicious unknown Cubans, and along with those was an individual name that they
named as Leon Oswald. And when after the assassination, the afternoon of the
assassination, when she began to see pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald, she recognized
him as that individual, and actually, at that point in time she had
something of a traumatic experience was admitted to the hospital. In any event,
that report came from some of the people that she had talked to came to
the FBI. The FBI investigated at some length and interested enough. It becomes
fascinating because the FBI wrote it off as being just a misunderstanding on her part.
She you know, she didn't really know what she was saying, and
they had tracked down the three people who had visited her and it was all
perfectly innocent. And that was the report that was given to the Warren Commission.
So the Warren Commission could kind of like close out that lead write it
off. The fascinating thing about that is that there is an internal fbi'm memorandum
this entirely contradictory to that. Yes, we looked at these three guys and
know it wasn't them, and they said it wasn't them, and they we
located them at their job in any event, So that's one of those instances
where the internal FBI documents on Sylvia Odio say something different than what the FBI
provided the Warren Commission, and that's always entertaining. But as far as Sylvia
herself, one of the reasons she's important, her family was a very prominent
Cuban family in the trucking industry, had large properties and landholders, part of
the establishment in Cuba, and her father was actually ended up supporting the anti
Castro, the anti Castro factions in Cuba after the revolution. He became involved
in some people who tried to kill Castro in a bazouka attack. One of
them was found hiding on his properties. He and his wife were both arrested
and put in prison, and were still both in prison in nineteen sixty three.
So it's kind of a real humanitarian case for Silvio with her her parents
in prison, her whole family had to flee, etc. Etc. But
because of her position, she was also very close to Manoa Ray, who
had been a major political factor in Cuba pre Castro pre revolution, was leading
a very progressive exile not exil group, I'm sorry. They were in exile
operating against Castro after the revolution. The group was known as Urrey. They
were headquartered in Puerto Rico actually in nineteen sixty three. The summer in nineteen
sixty three, Silly had gone to Puerto Rico and had a lengthy meeting with
Ray, and then once she was back in Dallas, his second in command
had actually gone to Dallas to visit with her again. This visit was explained
that they were looking at using Sylvia Odio as a gun buyer, as a
weapons buyer, which is kind of really strange because that's not the sort of
thing that Cuban women did culturally, nor did she have any connections to do
that never made much sense to anybody. It didn't tie together too well.
And now it looks like there may have been a much more ambitious action and
play with Ray using Sylvia for something completely separate. We'll be talking about that.
But Sylvia has been a minor figure because of the prominence that she got
in that FBI report, as you know, having encountered Oswald and her visitors.
Supposedly one of them called her back try to chat her up, mentioned
that the guy that was with him was really loco. He could kill Castro,
he could kill JFK as a real loose cannon. You kind of get
the impression he's setting Oswald up. So there are several elements to the audio
story that make it both mysterious internally contradictory, questionable, and that's why a
lot of us who've been very involved in the research have been hung up with
Sylvia and what was really going on with Sylvia and did this mean? What
did it mean? Was that really leon Oswald? Gayton Phonsie spent a long
time on the audio story, something that made it even more well. In
any event, Phonsie, as an investigator for the HSCA felt her story was
important enough. She finally agreed that she would tell all the elements of her
story which she had not told before, and he promised that he would get
her with a meeting with an hsc investigator. The HSCA investigator tried to conduct
the meeting with her in a hotel room, and this did not go off
well, and Sylvia made it clear that his interests were not in what her
story was and she was done talking about this. So that's added a certain
element lot of good heavens, what did she have to say that we are
never going to hear her? Well, there's that whole bit of intrigue,
which again it's it's highly suggestible what it is that investigator wanted from Sylvia,
And you know, I urged people to go read it for themselves and and
find out about that. But there is another element of this, which is
the audio story is often dismissed, say by people that would advocate for the
lone nut theory as what Yet again, another one of these reports that the
FBI had collected, which there were many of after the fact, that was
like there was Oswald everywhere, there were people, you know, and you
and I talked about this, We've joked about this as we've read through this.
You know, all of a sudden, he's in Alaska, he's in
you know, he's in Ohio, he's in Idaho, he's in he's in
Texas. You know, two hours later, I mean, you know everywhere.
It was like Oswald was seen everywhere. Yeah, at a certain point.
So they've tried to brush it. You know, the positors of the
world, so to speak, have most of the time tried to brush it
into I don't remember if he did specifically, but guys of his ilk anyway,
have just sort of brushed it into that category, right. And what
they failed to mention, Chuck is and what they never mentioned, yes,
and Pausner certainly didn't mention, is the interesting fact a lot of these stories
are really disconnected, right, which makes them more mysterious. In Sylvia's case,
what makes hers even more interesting is that her uncle in New Orleans,
where these guys had said they came from, was actually in the courtroom with
Lee Harvey Oswall when he was brought into an answer to his leaf letting issue
on the street. Yeah, her uncle, fellow named Guitar was actually in
the room can be seen Oswell's presence. So if that just adds another element,
that kind of it keeps her going, what in the one? What's
the connection? So Oswald in her case, Oswald didn't come out of nowhere
right, No, she was certainly was not a figment of her imagination,
because here we go, her uncle's there. Literally, what you're talking about
is the incident where there is the alleged fight on the street between Berengear and
Oswald and they're both arrested and Oswald winds up pain like I think a ten
dollars fine whatever. They let the other guys go. That whole incident that
led to him getting interviewed on television and radio. Right here we go,
this is all connected. So again, it's not somebody, Oh I have
this crazy idea in my mind. I think I saw Lee RB Oswald at
the local McDonald's. No, that's not what happened here, you know.
So again I just I'm glad you brought that up, because that's great.
Uh, this is not something that's not interconnected. And yet we still never
got the entirety of the story. And could it be because somebody was,
you know, doing the creeptastic walk with a female witness or could it be
that that was intentionally done in order to completely turn somebody away from the case
and wanting to reveal what it is they had to reveal. You know,
it's it's interesting because a lot of the follow through not done by the officials.
Aren't you surprised, Larry, Uh, you know, shocked and amazed?
Yes? Absolutely, I thought some prayers on it too, you know,
just saying it's it's amazing. So anyway, that's just part of the
re evaluation of Oswald, that that you'll be presenting here and putting them in
a different context because I think we are you know again, uh, there
are people out there with with fan fiction I'll call it where you know,
they turned Lee RB Oswald into James Bond. Not buying it? Now?
Could he have been a useful asset to somebody? To a couple of somebody's
looks like, yes, you know, but but here we go, h
was he? And oh, by the way, does it mean that he
was guilty or innocent? I don't give you an answer there. When people
ask me that, you know, the whole isn't oz Oswald innocent? I
say, well, I don't know. Uh do I do? I think
he's the responsible party for the assassination as the Loane gunman. No, but
how he's involved, what he's involved in? That nexus again another another title
Larry's books. By the way, I love using that word when you're on
uh nexus another one. I recommend that nexus of activity individuals and the confluence
of so many different things here makes it, in my mind impossible to believe
this is just the kooky kid that decided, you know, against a lot
of what his behaviors had shown previously to one day just decide to make history
with a crap rifle he got from the mail order place because it was cheap.
Uh. I believe that he would buy a cheap rifle. I do
believe that, because apparently he was a bit of a planner. Yeah,
Oswald. Oswell never did anything that Oswald did not plan and sketch out and
prepare for. Oswald did just not do. Oswell was not spontaneous except when
he got into trouble. And when he got into trouble, like many of
us, you know, he would say whatever crossed his mind, you know,
like okay, yes, you caught me with my hand in the till
but it was an accident. But other than that, no, uh.
And and I think the one comment I would make is that if after you
get really know and appreciate Lee Harvey Oswald, if you wanted to use them,
it would be much better to use them at a distance then to to
give him an order and think that he would follow it, because that's not
something I was well did. Oh, and expect that he will improvise given
that he doesn't have a plan in working order, because apparently, I mean,
I would say that clearly all of his activities show a pension for improvisation.
When the plans evaporate or run out on him, you know, he
runs out of stuff that was planned, you will get some improvisation. It's
not as though he won't take action one way or another. So you know,
whether it's the the suicidal ideation in the Soviet Union, or it's some
of the curious answers he gives to things at certain times to certain people,
or it's deciding to defect and then you know, so on and so forth.
Whatever in your script is not what it's going to be, right,
I mean, you know, after he asks you know, another woman to
marry him, he does ask another woman to marry him in Russia, I
mean, you know, not Russia, excuse me, in a what is
now Belarus. Uh, you know, he's willing to ask more than one
woman to marry him in the space of a couple of months. I mean
just saying, uh, you know, these are these are things he does
when the original plan fails, he might improvise. I mean that just seems
to be a general characteristic. Also according to people who knew him intimately,
I mean, little stingy with the money. I can see him bargain hunting
on the rible I really can't. But just saying, you know, and
uh, see Marina Oswald, if you've ever had a conversation with her at
length, I'm told it's even worse than what I ever got. But just
saying, apparently not a guy who was looking to be extravagant and might try
to save a dollar here there, just saying, uh. And incredibly,
the way he paid back his you know, his traveling a loan, I
mean, that's amazing considering what it was he was. Anyway, that's a
whole other story. But Larry, I think it's going to be an interesting
conference. We've we've run almost an hour here because we started a little after
the hour. But is there anything else you'd like to throw in? Because
we're not going to hear from you on this show, and I'm hoping to
capture a few moments of video here and there, possibly with you and I,
but maybe some video of you not necessarily giving your presentation, because I'll
let Lancer, you know, give those out or whatever. But who knows,
Maybe I can get a couple of comments from you on video around the
bar there or something. Or maybe we can have lunch. I don't know,
are you going to the box lunch setups and all that, or you
just neat at the banquet, So okay, at certain points we'll get a
chance to eat and talk and everything else. And like I said, I
hope to get a little bit of audio or video from you, you know,
when we're in Dallas, And honestly, I might forget to record stuff.
I got a couple of things I want to give to you when I
see you too, a couple of little gifts and stuff like that. And
by the way, I know I got a signature from you a couple of
years ago. I actually have a book I want you to sign please,
I'll use I promise to use the same name. Excellent. I would appreciate
that because I have my my very old someone would have talked hardcover and I
would like you to sign that if you wouldn't mind. But well, I'm
looking forward. I think it's going to be a unique experience on the sixtieth
in Dallas. Absolutely look any one of Larry's books. I would highly recommend
by the way, which you can go to you know Larrydshancock dot com.
There is his blog which he has blogged about the conference. He's blogged about
appearances on this show, other things going on, is work in the UAP
community. Some of his other commentary responses. I think you you did a
blog post about the response to the Landis revelation too, didn't you? I
did? Yeyep, Okay, just just checking. But there's a lot of
other stuff over there, and it's always very interesting. I'm also wanting to
get and keep track of any of these monographs that you're going to put out.
Is there going to be one very soon about this reevaluation of Oswald,
this entangling or de entangling of the of the man? Or are we going
to see a monograph about that very soon. That'll be next year. I
think we'll have that out next year. Uh, it's it's in draft form.
I'm having it peer reviewed by several people. So yeah, that meant
that monograph will come out, but not not in this year. I would
expect it hopefully to be maybe spring next year. Again, it's the sort
of thing, as as I've told many people, if I'm going to be
contrarian, I want to be consistent when I'm being contrarian, So I need
to have it really checked out. And since it's it's probably going to take
a different view in many areas than what is the kind of like establishment view
of Oswald, I need to I need to get all my ducks in row.
Yeah, fair enough, And and you know, once again I mean
you also, if you go to Larry's blog, you can see a list
of presenters that are going to be at Lancer along with Larry, and you'll
see my name on there as giving introductions and this kind of thing. Also,
we're going to do stuff in the breakout room. There may be some
unplanned things that occur here. Let's see, you're presenting with Boyln. We
also have Robert Groden going to be at the banquet. By the way,
I think I forgot to mention that last time. But you're gonna hear from
you know, John, John Carnes or Cairens. I always forget how to
say that, Larry Schnapf. At a certain point, we're gonna hear from
Monica Perez, Jimenez. I'm just giving you a couple of highlights. You're
not gonna list everybody but Stu Wexler, Vince Paul Marra is still on the
bill right, yes, no, Vince. Vince decided that he had nothing
to say. I see, okay, no problem. He was part of
the bill, but we offered to let him do a presentation as well,
but it remotely but that did not happen. Rex Bradford is going to be
speaking twice. He will be doing an extended presentation on the on basically the
history of getting documents, getting documents released, getting documents accessed in great detail,
and then he will be speaking at the keynote on his kind of like
rodent of Rex's personal experiences over several decades in dealing with the National Archives and
dealing with documents and how did we get where we are? I mean,
people, these just days just accept the fact that someone can mention a document
and you can go find it online and they really don't comprehend. We may
not have resolved the assassination, but we've come a lot ways down the path
with the history, and he'll be talking about that at the banquet. Well,
you know, if nothing else can be said, we can certainly say
that we filled out quite a bit of history over the past, especially twenty
five years, regarding this. A lot of mystery now has been consigned to
history. We've sorted out a whole bunch of stuff, which, by the
way, linked to your Oswald you know, reevaluation. I keep searching for
different words for this because this entanglement idea is one way to put it,
but I know there's going to be more to it. Greg my title for
it, just to get people the right perspective I'm trying to Oswald has been
put in boxes. He's been made one dimensional. The Warren Commission made him
one dimensional because they wanted him to look a certain way. The research community,
quite frankly, has made him one dimensional because they want him to look
a certain way. Actually maybe different ways, but yeah, there's actually a
couple of ways. You know, there's the innocent Oswald. Then there's the
suspect Oswald. And indeed there are different people who want to make him,
you know, the angel, and there there are others that are just attempting
to dislodge him from, you know, being the primary suspect one way or
the other. And those agendas dictate the boxes that they're putting him in.
So yeah, I'm trying to give him his own dimension. I'm writing about
the Oswald dimension. And the title working title is Oswald in three Dimensions,
you know, which we don't. We need to look at him from his
own perspective, how he looked at the world, what he wrote, what
he said, you know, and reality checked what we have all been saying
about him. I find it amazing that people still characterize him as a right
winger, like hidden patriot without ever having read what he wrote in nineteen sixty
three as to his real group views on geopolitics and progressivism. And it's right
there in the Warrant Commission. And I've I don't find anybody or find very
few people without you know, pointing it out. It's kind of like,
have you read about what he said about the world himself and and typed and
wrote in the months right before the assassination. Nope, nope, nope.
Wouldn't that be very important? You know? How about his speech to the
religious community that he made, If you guys really looked his own words,
well, that's very important. Reading some of what he authored, I got
to say he's a little more of a progressive figure, but certainly nuanced beyond
what most people want to allow. Which is interesting because Greg Dudina is also
doing a thing on the Walker shooting, which is which is different as we
kind of showed talking to him on this show. He's got a different point
of view about that than I've generally seen, right, yep, And I'll
be on that panel too. There you go. Plus you know you'll hear
very truly from say James Corbett and Carlin Savastano and a few others. Bark
campbe also making the presentation, and Alex Harris the youngest presenter I've ever heard
of at any of these conferences or any of these get togethers presentations public education
forms regarding well, the Kennedy assassination. I don't think I've ever heard of
a guy who showed up there at fourteen, you know, I mean,
this is making me tired, Chuck, there's gonna be so much. I
think I better go rest now, just to be ready. There you go,
so again, Larry Hancock. Go to Larry Dashncock dot com. Obviously
follow up on his books regarding the assassination, but a hell of a lot
more Larry has written about regarding the behaviors of the national security state, whether
it's about UFOs under unidentified and of course his work regarding UAPs now let's be
correct, and what the national security state was doing about them. There's an
interesting thing that you're continuously working on with a group there. But also you
authored that book you have, Creating Chaos, you have in Denial, which
is about covert operations and not so covert operations, et cetera, surprise attack.
Guess what the title kind of tells you what it is, shadow warfare,
on and on. And I don't list all the books here because I
got to let you go, Larry, but I really appreciate you taking the
time tonight and really looking forward to seeing you in Dallas. So good.
I am merely O'Kelly and all of you are indeed the effect. Thank you
for listening, and thank you, Larry for doing this always a pleasure.
Chuck everybody, good night, Oh Chili dot Com, wall Stream, Window,
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many fantastic claims Judith Vary Baker in her own words, thank you for
all the great information. If youse expressed by callers schools, there anyone else
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not responsible for any stupidity which you might ensue. Thank you going to chuck
O Chelly. We're here, Choco Shelly. You know