WEBVTT

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The o' Chilei effect is sponsored by
Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners like

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you Now and Now and Media Tech. Twenty sixth day of October twenty twenty

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three, allegedly, according to that
thing we call a calendar, and your

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humble host, being one tooth shorter
than he was the last time he spoke

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to you, is live here on
the Ocelli dot com radio network, but

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of course most of you are catching
the podcast further on down the stream,

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et cetera, and so on and
so forth. Anyway, gonna try to

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limit my talking a bit tonight.
I know I always say that and never

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do it, but believe me,
I'm gonna have to. Uh. Anyway,

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good thing, because I have a
guy who actually came up in an

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email discussion just this morning. Weird
email discussion that's starting to go around because

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well they said I should have a
panel of professors. Okay, And people

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often refer to Larry Hancock as a
professor, although I'm not sure if you

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were ever a professor, Larry,
You've been many things, but have you

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been a professor in the past?
You know, this is not like have

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you ever been a part of the
Communist Party or anything? But I mean,

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although to some people who would be
okay, joking done, the thing

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is, you know, they said
I should have a panel of experts and

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it should be the you know,
the the event with the professor's panel regarding

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JFK. And more than one person
brought this up and that we should sort

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of have a panel discussion after what
goes on in Dallas, and I thought

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it might be a good idea,
but I don't know if I can schedule

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enough of the people that they considered
professors, whether indeed they were professors or

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not together on one show. But
I'm gonna try it, guys, just

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so you know, and would like
to invite Larry right now to join in

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on that where it's like the best
experts we can assemble kind of on a

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show to recap where it is we
are actually at after sixty years. So

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it's a floating idea right now.
Might not come to fruition Larry, but

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we have plenty still to talk about
even without that. And Larry, of

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course, if you go to larrydsh
Hancock dot com or Larryhyphenhancock dot com,

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you can follow his blog. You
can follow a lot of stuff. And

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oh, by the way, we'll
both be at the Lancer Conference, which

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does say it's partially presented by Larry
Hancock as well. Over there if you

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go to the links and you will
see links in the show notes here to

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the JFK Lancer event which runs from
November nineteen. Oh, excuse me,

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from November seventeen to nineteen. Pardon
me again, from November seventeen to nineteen

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this year coming up, just a
couple of weeks from now, and Larry

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will be indeed a presenter, somebody
involved in the conference as he has been

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for many years, et cetera,
et cetera. And guess what, I'll

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be there too, And we're planning
on making this one very different and yet

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with a lot of familiar faith is
a lot of good stuff, and the

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schedule looks promising. But tonight we're
going to get into a specific subject that

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I think hasn't been covered adequately by
people that usually even cover this. But

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before we get there, Larry,
how are you doing tonight, sir?

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I'm doing well tonight, Chuck.
I'm feeling good. I'm looking forward to

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the conference, looking forward to being
in Dallas again. So I'm a good

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jape. Excellent, You know,
I don't think there's a bus tour this

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time, but there is a banquet, and I'm planning on attending everything I

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can this time, unlike last time. But you know, and hopefully you

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and I will get a chance to
even I don't know, sit at the

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bar here and there. In fact, that'll be something coming up. But

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anyway, Yeah, let's get to
the topic at hand, because I think

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this is important. And look,
I know how my listeners take stuff.

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I know exactly where their minds are
going to go when we bring certain things

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up. So let's cut to the
chase. The plots preceding Dallas, Right,

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we often discuss what's number one,
the Chicago plot, and it is

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one of the more expansive things due
to the work of Edwin Black, due

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to the work of Well the book
by Abraham Bolden, the work of Whether

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You Like It or Not, Lamar
Waldron and Tom Hartman. Right, this

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has definitely been one of those things
that has been discussed. If I remember,

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way back, Prevailing Wins reprinted Edwin
Black's article from the Chicago Monthly in

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their interesting releases that they used to
send out the plot before the plot.

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Right, But we're not going to
talk about Chicago tonight, because I think

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a lot of people have done that. In The Men Who Killed Kennedy,

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the original released series, right,
the six parts, that was a huge

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thing and was I think started around
the twenty fifth anniversary, but then you

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know, was completed much later and
went on for year. He is Nigel

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Turner. You know, he presented
a lot of interesting stuff, and you

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could almost say at that point in
time he presented nearly anything of major interest

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in the case that the public could
have gotten their hands on. It seemed

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like, well anyway, One of
the things they presented in there which has

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stuck with people is this idea that
there was a guy named Willie Somerset who

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was an informant for the FBI.
And again, guys, don't worry,

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I'm gonna shut up real soon.
Here Willie Somerset is talking to this very

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curious character who later on comes up
in other places. Some people try to

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claim he was in Dearly Plaza,
YadA, YadA. But point is there

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was an interesting fellow there that he
was talking to. And the idea that

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somebody said that the Kennedy thing was
going to get taken care of because it

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was in the workings and so on
and so forth. Maybe even the suggestion

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that there might be a rifle from
an office building, alarm bells going off

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in people's heads if they hear about
this later, because Texas school book Depository

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le rb Oswald a rifle seems like
elements of the story. And by the

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way, this was recorded before the
assassination. And we've talked about the Secret

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Service, especially recently with Paul Landis
blah blah blah. But what about the

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threats? I mean, I brought
up Chicago, of course, on this

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show, I talk about Florida,
and I also talk about Los Angeles.

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There may have been others that we
don't know about. There were constantly threats

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being assessed, but some were more
serious than others. And yet there might

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be a lot more to say than
what we saw in The Men Who Killed

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Kennedy regarding things going on in Florida. And oh, by the way,

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just so happens to be where jam
Wave was, and oh, by the

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way, just happens to be where
a lot of anti Castro Cubans and well

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a lot of other Cubans had wound
up immigrating to any seems like the real

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hot bed of possible activity, and
people have pointed many different sticks in many

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different directions here regarding this. There's
a lot that could be said about the

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state of Florida, what was going
on, regarding the Cuban exiles, the

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Cuban immigrants, the Cuban expats,
whatever you want to call them. And

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yet there are people that really focus
on it and others who just kind of

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dropped the ball. And hey,
let's go back to the Chicago plot one

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more time, because we've got a
possible you know, suspect here, and

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we've got a former marine and we've
got Thomas Arthur Valet is the same guy

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I just mentioned twice already. Either
way, We've also got anti Castro Cubans

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and Abraham Bolden's story and I don't
know, but what about Florida? Is

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there more to it? And I'm
obviously setting it up so you can knock

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it down. Is there more to
it than the Willie Somerset informant tape?

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Okay, that that was my inswer
I'm on now right, that's yes,

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I think, I think, And
a couple of things, high level things

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jump out of this if I try
to discuss it in a bit of detail

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and that is that so much.
So much was when the original stories were

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written about Chicago or uh, Miami. Lots were written over years that made

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these things very mysterious that have stayed
in circulation. And the more mysterious things

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are, the more people tend to
come up and talk to them and and

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they never get put to bed.
Okay, Uh, if we were to

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approach any of the cities that you
just mentioned, Chuck, with what we

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know now, we would probably tell
a different story and a much simpler story

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for one of the things when when
you get to Miami, what we what

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We have two real sources in Miami, one Willie Summerman set who is in

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a recording talking about getting a gun
and talking about people who might shoot Kennedy.

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It's important to remember that we really
now fully understand why that recording was

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made and what happened after it was
made. When I first started into this,

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one of the big mysteries that everybody
talked about is how could they have

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that recording in Miami? And it
must be a conspiracy in a plot because

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nobody did anything about it, nobody
followed up on it. You know,

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there's part of this master conspiracy.
We're not even going to try to deal

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with threats against Kennedy. Well,
the reason the tape was made in the

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first place is it was made as
part of a sting. Was Somerset participating

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on a fellow who was going to
be selling a rifle to be used by

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some of the people at Somerset was
in contact with to assassinate Martin Luther King.

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Long story there is to wester and
I cover it in our books on

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the m Okay Assassin assassination, and
i'mnoxious detail, but that's the reason why

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that tape was made in the first
place. That had nothing to do with

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JFK. It's just the remarks about
Kennedy are just remarks that came out of

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that conversation. However, it is
important to know, as we now know

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that that was reported to the Secret
Service, it was reported to the FBI.

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The FBI did go out and interview
the people whose names were mentioned on

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the tape. In their standard classic
fashion. They'd walk up to the door

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and say, hey, we understand
that you guys might kill the president.

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Is there anything to that? And
that you know the guys would deny it

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and everybody would walk away. That's
almost the way it comes off. You

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know, what can the FBI do. It's like they show up, knock

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on the door, the people deny
that have any evil intentions against anyone,

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and we're done. The FBI did
keep certain people under surveillance in the radical

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racist community, and so the people
that were mentioned were not unknown to them.

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They knew where to find them,
they knew the sort of things that

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they were about, which generally didn't
have anything to do with JFK as a

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as a primary he was on a
long list of Jews and capitalists and you

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know, freedom bus writers and et
cetera. However, we also know that

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so the lead did get pursued by
the FBI. The lead got reported to

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Secret Service because on that tape it's
mentioned and in's someplace that Joseph Miltier,

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who is on the tape involved in
the tape and mentioned it, mentions that

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the assassination, the attempt on JFK
might occur in Washington, d C.

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Because of that and the way the
Secret Service operated, this was put in

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a threat file. But the way
the Secret Service did their work or they

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compartmentalized it to the extent that there
were no generic threats. There's a threat

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in worship in DC. There's a
threat in Chicago, there's a threat in

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Los Angeles. We put it in
the folder, and if the president is

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going to that city, we'll pull
that folder and oh, gosh, well

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there may be a threat that's been
reported. Will go check these people out.

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Obviously, that was a totally nonsensical
way to handle It's like they could

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not conceive that there would be an
exexstential threat by a group that or an

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individual that could carry it out anywhere
in the nation. But that's the way

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they handle it now. Just for
an aside, here, Joseph Miltier,

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who is the guy that I referenced
and didn't name, is, as you

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mentioned here, someone who is a
credible threat in general, because he was

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apparently going around participating it in some
way or other in various plots to assassinate

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people, different people, maybe possibly
other civil rights leaders, doctor King specifically.

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Right, So it's not as though
this is a guy who's a random

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name who comes up here, and
yeah, he was associated with people who

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had they had long list, the
list of people, and the FBI was

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well aware that they were actually training
rifle squads to kill a list of people

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JFK, RFK, basically major Jewish
investment figures. Financial figures were high on

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the list. Actually, they were
higher on their list than the civil rights

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leaders. I mean, these people
had a shopping list and they were quite

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serious about this. So absolutely he's
not one that you're going to laugh at.

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And everybody he's associated with is on
the FBI's you know, basically surveillance

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list with good reason, because this
guy's going around literally, you know,

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trying to raise money, right,
He's he's lobbying people to raise money,

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even to put toward these efforts,
to put toward these guys, to train,

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to prepare, to lay things out, to get rid of a whole

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bunch of people that they think are
a threat to Well, let's just be

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blunt White America. And Stu,
you know, Stuart Wexler, who is

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also gonna present at Lancer, right, you know, co authored things with

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you about this specifically, and so
this is of interest. But it goes

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far beyond just this one mention here
on the tape. As I was saying,

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so go ahead, please continue,
Yeah, and it really comes out

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as a diversion. I mean a
lot of these things once you understand the

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context and who's talking about what and
what was really done about it? No,

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it's no longer mysterious. It is
a diversion from the real, known,

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serious threat that the Secret Service was
dealing with in Miami. And it's

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kind of amazing to me that the
one absolutely documented official threat, forget about

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la forget about Chicago, the one
place that the Secret Service was so concerned

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about an attack on JFK occurring that
they went to the CIA and asked for

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their help. I mean that almost
never happens, was in Miami, because

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they had a series of threats against
JFK coming out of Miami. To them,

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the Secret Service did that there would
be attacks carried out on the President

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during his appearance in Miami, and
they were very targeted. They were from

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a certain segment of the very radical
Cuban exile community that was extremely irate JFK

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over the Cuban missile crisis at the
time, you know that, So it

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was very focused. And it's amazing
to me that that kind of gets put

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on the same level as all these
other threats, right, and all these

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other incidents where the Secret Service was
so concerned in Miami that first of all,

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they canceled a car ride that JFK
had and rather than taking him from

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his arrival point to his hotel in
a car, they put him in a

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helicopter. They went to the Secret
Service and said, could you help us

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to sign some of your people,
some of your intelligence people locally. We

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need to put all these folks under
surveillance, and the CIA obliged them.

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And even with all of that,
there was an actual dynamite bomb planted along

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the route that JFK was going to
take to a speaking appointment. So we

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00:17:00.799 --> 00:17:07.039
have an actual attempt, and there
was a documented report of a sniper in

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the area where he was appearing.
So these are real life, hardcore official

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reports, no speculation, and yet
they don't stand out from the noise.

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You know, if you were looking
at this on some kind of a media

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said, well, good heavens,
then obviously the real known threat to the

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president is coming out of the Cuban
exile community, which is go ahead,

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00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:37.000
sorry, the dynamite bombing. You're
referencing the nineteen sixty attempt, aren't you.

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In nineteen sixty three, there was
actually another dynamite bomb was found along

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as motorcy route. There's actually a
newspaper story out. Okay, that's another

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one because in Palm Beach, Florida, right, there was a guy in

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pablic who was charged and caught.
And you know that's I believe the infamous

220
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story that he saw the kids and
decided to change his mind actually was pretty

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close. And yeah, he tried
to position himself to blow up Kennedy.

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This is why I keep saying Florida, because it wasn't just Miami where threats

223
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had been you know, had had
been a credible, very credible in motion.

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That's a near miss right there in
nineteen sixty right, and yeah,

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absolutely so. But yeah, so
this is a different that in nineteen fall

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of nineteen sixty three, two different
actual threats on site. You know,

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they didn't catch anybody, they were
reported they did find the explosives. I

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you know, I give the link
to the newspaper story. So it seems

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like that should stand out head and
shoulders above anything else if you're talking about

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a risk to the president that you
can attribute to a certain group of individuals.

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If I were in the Secret Service, and it's kind of like,

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wait a minute, where are we
going to go where some of these other

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Wherever we're going, we need to
watch for these kind of people. And

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what makes this really interesting to me, Chuck, is again people don't seem

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to relate it. You mentioned the
Los Angeles threat, which came, as

236
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I think from Richard K. Snagel
in some detail, and which he attributed

237
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specifically to a couple of very radical
Cuban exiles in Chicago. The real threat

238
00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:33.519
that Abraham Bolden talks about is not
Thomas Valley. That was completely independent.

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It was about a report that his
Secret Service office received from the FBI about

240
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two people that were traveling again Cuban
exiles, radicals that were traveling in Chicago

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that might be considered a threat.
So if you really tied back, if

242
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I was sitting there, you know
as of October at Secret Service Protective Service

243
00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:04.000
Headquarters, I would be looking at
these things like there's a common factor going

244
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on. We really need to if
we're going to focus on somebody. It's

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00:20:08.359 --> 00:20:12.240
a threat, it's common in all
these locations, and it just kept getting

246
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worse. Something. You know,
by the time it's in Miami, it

247
00:20:18.200 --> 00:20:23.000
really is not only ex extential,
you know it's real and you have real

248
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:27.000
evidence that somebody's trying to carry it
out. Yet when we follow this on

249
00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:33.200
with to Dallas. Their protocols were
such that when they go to open the

250
00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.359
folder, the PRS folder for Dallas, there's nothing about a threat in Dallas

251
00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:44.920
from anybody except from the right wing. The people who had protested against Stevenson.

252
00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:49.279
Right, the people who had chased
Lyndon Johnson down the street, who

253
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who had chased the UN ambassador down
the street and hit them over the head

254
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.759
with placards. This is the threat
we're going to look at. Because people

255
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have happened in Dallas before. We
can't bring anything in, So we're going

256
00:21:03.319 --> 00:21:08.839
to be concerned about people that hit
folks with signs rather than people that had

257
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:15.119
dynamite and rifles in Miami. Right, people that were making themselves obvious by

258
00:21:15.119 --> 00:21:18.839
printing stuff in newspapers right that they
wanted him, you know, and handing

259
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:22.880
out flyers that they wanted for treason, this kind of stuff, Right,

260
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This is what they were looking at
and not you know, hey, maybe

261
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:30.960
there's guys with dynamite and oh,
by the way, how is it that

262
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:34.519
anti Castro Cubans are somehow involved here
in Chicago? And also, I mean

263
00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:38.920
in Miami, it would make perfect
sense. Proximity. Again, this is

264
00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.519
about proximity too, and the Bay
of Pig still being a thing that carried

265
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:51.279
negative sentimentality among the Cuban community in
general. Right, So it seems to

266
00:21:51.319 --> 00:21:53.519
me as though, you know,
again, there's a whole lot more to

267
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be said about all over the state
of Florida, specifically the places he's going.

268
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But we've had a whole history here
going back already. I mean,

269
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he wasn't even actually sworn in as
president yet when this bombing attempt, the

270
00:22:07.359 --> 00:22:11.519
one I was talking about was first
made, right because I think that was

271
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December of sixty which he's sworn in
in January sixty one. So you know,

272
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here we go. There are things
going on now that's not tied to

273
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the Bay Pigs obviously, but what's
going on here and here we go,

274
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it's well beyond just the Summerset recording, which again is startling because it seems

275
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to give a preview in a way, right, in a loose sort of

276
00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:45.680
way, to what the official story
would be later. But there's a whole

277
00:22:45.720 --> 00:22:48.839
lot more going on. So I
find this interesting, especially when you know,

278
00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:52.839
we got treated to the details from
the Kennedy detail, right, and

279
00:22:53.119 --> 00:22:57.440
we're listening now to you know,
our friend in the Secret Services giving a

280
00:22:57.440 --> 00:23:00.799
new story about how you know,
look at the very least he tampered with

281
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:06.799
some evidence by moving it by based
on his admissions as to whether they're accurate

282
00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:12.160
or not. Another story. It's
selling a book pretty well. But nonetheless,

283
00:23:12.759 --> 00:23:15.599
we have a whole thing going on
with the Secret Service here, and

284
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it almost seems reasonable that somebody at
certain points said, maybe that suspicious activity

285
00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:26.960
right there right the enemy within concept, because look, you got these guys

286
00:23:26.960 --> 00:23:30.200
that were drinking the night before in
Dallas, before the event that happened.

287
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:34.799
You have these clear you know,
we're only looking at it after the fact,

288
00:23:36.240 --> 00:23:41.440
but it seems like nobody took certain
things seriously enough earlier on to track

289
00:23:41.519 --> 00:23:47.680
down any greater threats, and there
probably were many that it seems like,

290
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:52.799
you know, the independent researcher seems
to be able to discover later, but

291
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:57.279
the Secret Service in real time trying
to come up with threats. What are

292
00:23:57.279 --> 00:24:00.279
they doing? Are they doing their
job bad or are they doing their job

293
00:24:00.359 --> 00:24:04.759
badly on purpose? Or is this
just you know, a symptom of the

294
00:24:04.839 --> 00:24:10.640
times. No agency could have foreseen
any of this. I'm just saying it

295
00:24:10.680 --> 00:24:15.160
opens up a whole lot of questions, doesn't it Yeah, I think,

296
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:18.039
and I think that's what it really
does to me. That's why the Somerset

297
00:24:18.119 --> 00:24:22.519
lead is important because we can track
it. We now have the documents to

298
00:24:22.559 --> 00:24:27.119
show how it was handled, and
in knowing how it was handled, it

299
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:36.400
exposes a systemic weakness in Secret Service
protection. And I think it directly addresses

300
00:24:36.440 --> 00:24:41.960
the question you're talking about, Chuck
in that now it's not a mystery or

301
00:24:41.960 --> 00:24:48.480
at least personally a view as a
mystery as to what was not done.

302
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:52.279
You know, was it intentional or
was it an oversight? It was a

303
00:24:52.319 --> 00:24:57.160
systemic problem that it was just the
way that they handle threats. It was

304
00:24:57.599 --> 00:25:03.319
they could not translate. They had
no generic threat. They weren't looking at

305
00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:07.880
They were looking at threats the way
that the Secret Service always had somebody.

306
00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:14.240
It's almost an up close and personal
threat, you know, who's going to

307
00:25:14.279 --> 00:25:19.160
step out and attack the president.
They had never dealt with an organized attack

308
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:25.119
by multiple individuals. You know that
it wasn't part of their protocol. They

309
00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:33.359
could just they were setting there waiting
for individuals to report threats that someone had

310
00:25:33.359 --> 00:25:36.920
made against the president, and then
they would go out and investigate them,

311
00:25:37.039 --> 00:25:41.400
which is in one way. It's
actually a very criminal justice approach, Like

312
00:25:41.759 --> 00:25:45.880
we can't do we can't be proactive, right, we can't go out and

313
00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.359
start shaking people down just because we
suspect their threat. Now, if somebody

314
00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:57.440
provides us a lead or some something
is actionable, we can go. We

315
00:25:57.680 --> 00:26:02.480
just can't get ahead of it.
You know. That's and that's that is

316
00:26:02.519 --> 00:26:06.440
true for law enforcement in general.
Right, you know, you can't you

317
00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:08.920
can't pull somebody in until the crime
is committed, no matter. You can

318
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:14.880
try to do something aboard it to
abort it. But it's just the way

319
00:26:14.920 --> 00:26:19.519
they operated in Texas for example.
I mean they did have a standing threat

320
00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:26.599
that was reported on the Texas trip
out of San Antonio, right, and

321
00:26:26.240 --> 00:26:30.279
we know that that's in the files. Did they do any special protection in

322
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:37.720
San Antonio? Not as far as
I can tell. What we're The real

323
00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:41.200
hole that we have in all of
this, and I think this is important,

324
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:47.839
is we don't have people spent a
lot of time investigating the CIA and

325
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:52.000
the FBI and the Dallas Police Department
as far as they're practices. Right,

326
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.559
you know, how do you how
do you guys do your business? Why?

327
00:26:56.640 --> 00:27:02.960
Why did you Why did nobody ever
ask why did you not translate this

328
00:27:03.240 --> 00:27:07.200
Miami threat to Dallas? Nobody ever
asked that question. Nobody even made the

329
00:27:07.279 --> 00:27:14.559
challenge. In fact, we don't
have the files, the PRS files on

330
00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:18.920
what was really been done. Vince
Palamara quite frankly dug up the interesting fact

331
00:27:19.400 --> 00:27:25.200
that at least one new individual who
appears to have been almost like an intelligence

332
00:27:25.279 --> 00:27:30.720
guy, was assigned to the presidential
detail about this time. Was there a

333
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:33.519
reason for that? We don't know
why it was brought on board. There's

334
00:27:33.559 --> 00:27:38.839
some suspicion. Bent seemed to suggest
that he may have been an electronics specialist.

335
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:45.039
Did somebody think someone was bugging the
president? You know? But we

336
00:27:45.119 --> 00:27:52.079
have no insight we know, for
example, in Dallas, Okay, we

337
00:27:52.319 --> 00:28:00.240
don't know what Headquarters told Dallas Secret
Service of US to do. They weren't

338
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:06.119
part of the presidential detail, right
did they? I'm told one of you

339
00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:10.480
know, very few of them talked
that much, but one of the Dallas

340
00:28:10.519 --> 00:28:14.920
Fort Worth Secret Service detail guys said, oh, we had no orders,

341
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:19.440
We nothing special, no special duties. How can that be? You know?

342
00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:25.119
Even the Dallas police I interviewed the
guy who's a reserve intelligence officer.

343
00:28:25.319 --> 00:28:29.119
I said, were you doing that
day and said they had me over at

344
00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:34.839
Black Panther headquarters watching them. Okay, well that's good, but in terms

345
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:40.039
of connecting the dots, there's a
real hole on the Secret Service. You

346
00:28:40.079 --> 00:28:44.599
know that did they do some things
that we don't know about? Is that

347
00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:48.799
why those trip records went missing?
Was that mysterious or not? Or I

348
00:28:48.839 --> 00:28:52.319
still don't know what's in them.
People say, oh, they really didn't

349
00:28:52.359 --> 00:28:57.079
go missing, but I can't find
them. You know, we don't know

350
00:28:57.400 --> 00:29:03.839
that they might not have been trying
to do some things. Certainly the presidential

351
00:29:03.960 --> 00:29:08.799
detail we know about, but we
don't know about the rest of protective services,

352
00:29:10.079 --> 00:29:15.359
because nobody ever focused on protective services
like they did the CIA or the

353
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:21.279
FBI or Dallas police, right,
and one could say that, look,

354
00:29:21.480 --> 00:29:26.400
they were trying to deal with it
as what has happened before. And the

355
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:30.759
idea that someone would attack the president
from a distance outside of a couple of

356
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:34.559
shots that I know about taking it
maybe Lincoln, you know, nobody knows,

357
00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:41.160
and of course no Secret Service then
not for presidential protection. Outside of

358
00:29:41.200 --> 00:29:44.680
that, you don't have somebody taking
a shot at a distance. Most of

359
00:29:44.720 --> 00:29:48.839
these it would be attacks on the
president, whether they were successful or they

360
00:29:48.839 --> 00:29:53.359
were near successful, whether it's you
know, Gerald Ford or it's the others.

361
00:29:55.440 --> 00:30:00.240
You have people trying to attack close
up, which is a different situation

362
00:30:00.599 --> 00:30:04.160
from what occurs here in Dallas.
Right. The idea that you have a

363
00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:11.160
sniper from a distance is not something
that was really the main focus, which

364
00:30:11.319 --> 00:30:14.880
is weird. Yeah, you're right, totally right, Chuck. What it

365
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:18.240
strikes And this is my impression.
My impression is that it's kind of the

366
00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:23.920
old military thing about you always fight
the next war based on the last one,

367
00:30:25.319 --> 00:30:29.119
right, and that's what gets you
in trouble. I think that's it.

368
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:33.599
With a Secret Service. They always
prepared for future attacks as they had

369
00:30:34.119 --> 00:30:40.440
based on what had happened before,
and they just weren't up to anything other

370
00:30:40.599 --> 00:30:45.079
than individual threats. And we can
kind of see that in Chicago. Okay.

371
00:30:45.559 --> 00:30:51.640
Separate from the Bolden and the Secret
Service from the FBI, that whole

372
00:30:51.680 --> 00:30:56.920
threat, totally separate is the fact
that the Secret Service did get a report

373
00:30:56.200 --> 00:31:02.039
from a guy who had talked to
another guy and a Bowling Alley diner at

374
00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:06.400
breakfast, and this guy was talking
about something needed to be done about the

375
00:31:06.440 --> 00:31:11.160
president. That was reported secret Service, and they did follow up on it.

376
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.599
They went out and did a covert
call in his apartment. They arranged

377
00:31:15.599 --> 00:31:18.720
for the police to pick him up
and make sure he was in custody that

378
00:31:18.880 --> 00:31:22.559
day. They were all over it. They could understand that, right.

379
00:31:22.039 --> 00:31:26.359
I got a lead from a guy
that says this guy might do something bad

380
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:32.319
against the president, and they handled
it with their standard practices and neutralized him.

381
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.680
This is getting Valley pulled over,
and you know he has this many

382
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:38.240
rounds in his trunk and all that
stuff, and at least they have him

383
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:42.400
in custody at the time, etc. But separate from that is the other

384
00:31:42.480 --> 00:31:47.960
threat, right, which is this
thing you brought up before about there's a

385
00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:53.319
couple of guys who are suspicious they
have rifles. Right, And the report

386
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:59.599
gets a little hazy here regarding this, right, Well, not when it's

387
00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:02.480
first. I think we're running too
and I'll go out on the line.

388
00:32:02.480 --> 00:32:07.680
And I was there when Abraham Bolden
first told his story. I talked to

389
00:32:07.759 --> 00:32:10.839
him in person. I heard him
speak at Lancer. It was this real

390
00:32:10.920 --> 00:32:15.880
straightforward story. He was the side
of the case. He was in the

391
00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.839
case. He heard the guys talking. A telex came in saying there are

392
00:32:22.839 --> 00:32:27.720
a couple of guys traveling and they
might represent a danger to the president,

393
00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.319
and it kind of told them where
to go to look for them. We

394
00:32:30.440 --> 00:32:34.880
know where that was. That there
was an apartment that they were staying at.

395
00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:38.279
They went out to talk to them, and you know, okay,

396
00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:40.839
just kind of like val We're going
to go talk to him, see what's

397
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.160
going on. And when they went
in the front door, these guys went

398
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:50.839
out the back door, okay.
And there's nothing that says they found anything

399
00:32:50.880 --> 00:32:57.039
in the room. But ultimately,
and we don't know apparently that they did

400
00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:02.880
get caught and they did get taken
ultimately into Chicago PD. But yeah,

401
00:33:02.960 --> 00:33:07.240
that's that's a complete and a very
simple story, has nothing to do with

402
00:33:07.359 --> 00:33:13.359
Vallei. And the two guys got
caught and essentially or like Valley, were

403
00:33:13.480 --> 00:33:17.480
neutralized. They were in custody that
day and then because there was nothing to

404
00:33:17.599 --> 00:33:22.000
charge them with, when the president
didn't come, they were released. Right.

405
00:33:22.160 --> 00:33:28.759
So I've written a lot about that, and we in different places,

406
00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:35.079
and we actually even know the names
because it was checked out by the FBI

407
00:33:35.640 --> 00:33:39.759
and they came up with okay,
this person, yes, had gone from

408
00:33:40.200 --> 00:33:45.359
Miami to Chicago, and yes,
we'd Conhier them a threat and anyway,

409
00:33:45.680 --> 00:33:51.519
so to your point, though in
essence, the same thing happened. They're

410
00:33:51.559 --> 00:33:57.319
just disconnected. People were reported as
being threats. The FBI communicated it at

411
00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:00.640
the Secret Service, and between the
Secret Service in the FBI, they kind

412
00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:05.839
of took them off the street during
the time they might have been a threat.

413
00:34:06.599 --> 00:34:07.920
Did you address that? And tipping
point, by the way, I

414
00:34:07.920 --> 00:34:12.079
did, Yeah, okay, that's
where I thought it was. Okay,

415
00:34:12.079 --> 00:34:15.559
great, And by the way,
that's yet again one of the many books

416
00:34:15.559 --> 00:34:17.519
that you that you can find on
Larry's website and on his you know,

417
00:34:17.559 --> 00:34:23.880
bibliography so to speak. There the
various books by the author and again taking

418
00:34:23.960 --> 00:34:28.079
up a whole lot of space on
my bookshelf as opposed to any other author,

419
00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:31.920
more spaces than anybody else. But
yeah, definitely, and that's one

420
00:34:31.960 --> 00:34:37.000
I highly recommend. By the way, which is the last that's the last

421
00:34:37.000 --> 00:34:40.320
thing you published on the assassination,
right, that is that is I'm going

422
00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:45.719
away from the book where oute what
I'm doing these days is publishing monographs because

423
00:34:45.760 --> 00:34:51.440
I just don't have the energy to
deal with publishers anymore. But those like

424
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:57.000
you'll find Tipping Point on the Mary
Ferrell website. Right, you'll find links

425
00:34:57.000 --> 00:35:01.199
to other work that I've done,
but there primarily am going to monograph route

426
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:07.599
because that just it's quicker. I
can put it online. And you know

427
00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:10.960
that's what That's what it's happening these
days. No, and you're more interested

428
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:17.320
in getting the information out as opposed
to adding another book to your author page

429
00:35:17.320 --> 00:35:22.119
on Amazon. Yeah, I know
they have room on the bookshelf anymore.

430
00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.480
Well, there's that. I mean, you're taking up a lot of space

431
00:35:23.519 --> 00:35:28.159
here. We're killing threes, Larry, I'm joking. Look, it's all

432
00:35:28.199 --> 00:35:30.519
worth it. By the way,
if you get a physic, I suggest

433
00:35:30.559 --> 00:35:36.519
physical copies on all this stuff.
But your work is continuing still too,

434
00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:42.000
So let's not forget about that before
we're done talking today, because part of

435
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:45.639
what you're going to present in Dallas
are Now I'm not certain about everything you're

436
00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:50.159
going to do, but would you
mind going back over what it is that

437
00:35:50.199 --> 00:35:53.039
you're going to be involved with in
Dallas because one of those things I think

438
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:57.320
is absolutely necessary. Now. I
did mention it with John Newman the other

439
00:35:57.440 --> 00:36:02.320
night that I think it would be
rate if a lot of people reevaluated the

440
00:36:02.599 --> 00:36:07.119
character that we have all come to
known know as Lee Harvey Oswald. Okay,

441
00:36:09.039 --> 00:36:15.280
yeah, and that does come in. I'm actually I'm doing one presentation

442
00:36:15.519 --> 00:36:19.920
and David Boyling is joining me.
And David is doing one presentation and I'm

443
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:24.440
joining him. The presentation I'm playing
lead on is basically the title of the

444
00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:31.800
presentation is Entangling Lee Harvey Oswald,
and that presentation will be speaking to what

445
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.800
we think we've found three different levels
of what I'm calling entanglement with Oswald in

446
00:36:37.880 --> 00:36:45.800
nineteen sixty three, being entangled both
by activities that are happening within the Special

447
00:36:45.800 --> 00:36:52.360
Affairs staff of the CIA, other
activities that are happening within the dre operating

448
00:36:52.360 --> 00:36:57.119
on its own agenda, make it
to make itself look good with the CIA

449
00:36:57.199 --> 00:37:02.199
and keep their funding. And thirdly
tanglement which led him into the actual not

450
00:37:02.360 --> 00:37:07.239
into the conspiracy, but into being
a patsy of the conspiracy. So that'll

451
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:13.639
be one presentation is on entanglement.
The other presentation, which David is leading

452
00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:20.639
is Sylvia Odio and another look at
the Sylvia Odio story, who her visitors

453
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:24.360
were, why she was being visited. In my view, David has found

454
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:31.320
some explosive new information as to why
Sylvia Odio was far more important to a

455
00:37:31.360 --> 00:37:37.800
CIA story at the time than we've
ever known up to date. How that

456
00:37:37.679 --> 00:37:45.760
connects Sylvia Odio all the way from
the United Nations to the Cuban consulate in

457
00:37:45.800 --> 00:37:52.639
Mexico City. And so we will
be talking about an analysis of the visit

458
00:37:52.880 --> 00:37:59.519
and these new connections of Sylvia and
who we think her visitors most probably were.

459
00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:05.920
And then finally I'll be kind of
keynoting the banquet and introducing kind of

460
00:38:05.960 --> 00:38:12.719
trying to sum up the last many
decades of JFK research in about ten minutes.

461
00:38:12.760 --> 00:38:15.320
And we know how brief I always
am, so that should work.

462
00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:19.840
Well, there you go. Well, look, before we depart from these

463
00:38:19.840 --> 00:38:22.920
particulars of what you're going to be
presenting, would you mind doing me a

464
00:38:22.920 --> 00:38:25.320
favor. I know this is you
know, going to put you to sleep

465
00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:30.480
for a moment, but remind people
about who Sylvia Odio is, what it

466
00:38:30.599 --> 00:38:36.159
is that's important because you know somebody
who's not let's just say, different levels

467
00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:38.679
of how far read into the case
you are. Sylvia Odio may be a

468
00:38:38.760 --> 00:38:45.719
name that people don't recognize one or
two They might know it from the JFK

469
00:38:45.960 --> 00:38:49.519
film or something, and say to
themselves. I think there was this lady

470
00:38:49.639 --> 00:38:52.960
that was visited by Lee RB Oswald, and there's a place where he was

471
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:59.360
spotted, according to the summation given
by the Garrison character in the movie.

472
00:39:00.280 --> 00:39:02.199
But I mean, could you give
us a thumbnail sketch as to why that's

473
00:39:02.320 --> 00:39:07.400
interesting, the timing of it,
etc. Sylvia Odio came to the attention

474
00:39:07.679 --> 00:39:14.320
of the Warren Commission and later the
HSCA because it was reported to the FBI

475
00:39:15.079 --> 00:39:20.320
that she had told people that she'd
had a visit from a couple of mysterious,

476
00:39:20.360 --> 00:39:27.119
suspicious unknown Cubans, and along with
those was an individual name that they

477
00:39:27.239 --> 00:39:31.559
named as Leon Oswald. And when
after the assassination, the afternoon of the

478
00:39:31.599 --> 00:39:38.360
assassination, when she began to see
pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald, she recognized

479
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:44.159
him as that individual, and actually, at that point in time she had

480
00:39:44.519 --> 00:39:50.480
something of a traumatic experience was admitted
to the hospital. In any event,

481
00:39:50.719 --> 00:39:53.719
that report came from some of the
people that she had talked to came to

482
00:39:53.800 --> 00:40:00.159
the FBI. The FBI investigated at
some length and interested enough. It becomes

483
00:40:00.199 --> 00:40:07.719
fascinating because the FBI wrote it off
as being just a misunderstanding on her part.

484
00:40:07.920 --> 00:40:12.360
She you know, she didn't really
know what she was saying, and

485
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:19.079
they had tracked down the three people
who had visited her and it was all

486
00:40:19.119 --> 00:40:23.519
perfectly innocent. And that was the
report that was given to the Warren Commission.

487
00:40:23.599 --> 00:40:28.400
So the Warren Commission could kind of
like close out that lead write it

488
00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:32.880
off. The fascinating thing about that
is that there is an internal fbi'm memorandum

489
00:40:34.119 --> 00:40:37.440
this entirely contradictory to that. Yes, we looked at these three guys and

490
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:40.639
know it wasn't them, and they
said it wasn't them, and they we

491
00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:46.360
located them at their job in any
event, So that's one of those instances

492
00:40:46.400 --> 00:40:52.400
where the internal FBI documents on Sylvia
Odio say something different than what the FBI

493
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:57.599
provided the Warren Commission, and that's
always entertaining. But as far as Sylvia

494
00:40:57.639 --> 00:41:01.880
herself, one of the reasons she's
important, her family was a very prominent

495
00:41:02.039 --> 00:41:08.320
Cuban family in the trucking industry,
had large properties and landholders, part of

496
00:41:08.360 --> 00:41:15.679
the establishment in Cuba, and her
father was actually ended up supporting the anti

497
00:41:15.840 --> 00:41:22.360
Castro, the anti Castro factions in
Cuba after the revolution. He became involved

498
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:28.239
in some people who tried to kill
Castro in a bazouka attack. One of

499
00:41:28.280 --> 00:41:31.679
them was found hiding on his properties. He and his wife were both arrested

500
00:41:31.719 --> 00:41:36.880
and put in prison, and were
still both in prison in nineteen sixty three.

501
00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:42.639
So it's kind of a real humanitarian
case for Silvio with her her parents

502
00:41:42.679 --> 00:41:46.039
in prison, her whole family had
to flee, etc. Etc. But

503
00:41:46.280 --> 00:41:52.760
because of her position, she was
also very close to Manoa Ray, who

504
00:41:52.840 --> 00:42:01.119
had been a major political factor in
Cuba pre Castro pre revolution, was leading

505
00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:07.000
a very progressive exile not exil group, I'm sorry. They were in exile

506
00:42:07.880 --> 00:42:15.880
operating against Castro after the revolution.
The group was known as Urrey. They

507
00:42:15.880 --> 00:42:22.400
were headquartered in Puerto Rico actually in
nineteen sixty three. The summer in nineteen

508
00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:27.960
sixty three, Silly had gone to
Puerto Rico and had a lengthy meeting with

509
00:42:28.679 --> 00:42:32.960
Ray, and then once she was
back in Dallas, his second in command

510
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:39.400
had actually gone to Dallas to visit
with her again. This visit was explained

511
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:45.760
that they were looking at using Sylvia
Odio as a gun buyer, as a

512
00:42:45.800 --> 00:42:50.920
weapons buyer, which is kind of
really strange because that's not the sort of

513
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.480
thing that Cuban women did culturally,
nor did she have any connections to do

514
00:42:54.559 --> 00:42:59.840
that never made much sense to anybody. It didn't tie together too well.

515
00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:05.599
And now it looks like there may
have been a much more ambitious action and

516
00:43:05.719 --> 00:43:13.199
play with Ray using Sylvia for something
completely separate. We'll be talking about that.

517
00:43:13.320 --> 00:43:17.679
But Sylvia has been a minor figure
because of the prominence that she got

518
00:43:17.719 --> 00:43:25.199
in that FBI report, as you
know, having encountered Oswald and her visitors.

519
00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:30.360
Supposedly one of them called her back
try to chat her up, mentioned

520
00:43:30.400 --> 00:43:36.000
that the guy that was with him
was really loco. He could kill Castro,

521
00:43:36.119 --> 00:43:39.119
he could kill JFK as a real
loose cannon. You kind of get

522
00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:46.440
the impression he's setting Oswald up.
So there are several elements to the audio

523
00:43:46.559 --> 00:43:54.880
story that make it both mysterious internally
contradictory, questionable, and that's why a

524
00:43:54.920 --> 00:44:00.280
lot of us who've been very involved
in the research have been hung up with

525
00:44:00.760 --> 00:44:04.639
Sylvia and what was really going on
with Sylvia and did this mean? What

526
00:44:04.679 --> 00:44:08.920
did it mean? Was that really
leon Oswald? Gayton Phonsie spent a long

527
00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:17.440
time on the audio story, something
that made it even more well. In

528
00:44:17.480 --> 00:44:22.880
any event, Phonsie, as an
investigator for the HSCA felt her story was

529
00:44:22.920 --> 00:44:28.599
important enough. She finally agreed that
she would tell all the elements of her

530
00:44:28.639 --> 00:44:32.280
story which she had not told before, and he promised that he would get

531
00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:43.079
her with a meeting with an hsc
investigator. The HSCA investigator tried to conduct

532
00:44:43.079 --> 00:44:47.719
the meeting with her in a hotel
room, and this did not go off

533
00:44:47.760 --> 00:44:52.639
well, and Sylvia made it clear
that his interests were not in what her

534
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:59.679
story was and she was done talking
about this. So that's added a certain

535
00:44:59.719 --> 00:45:02.079
element lot of good heavens, what
did she have to say that we are

536
00:45:02.119 --> 00:45:06.239
never going to hear her? Well, there's that whole bit of intrigue,

537
00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:12.519
which again it's it's highly suggestible what
it is that investigator wanted from Sylvia,

538
00:45:13.840 --> 00:45:15.800
And you know, I urged people
to go read it for themselves and and

539
00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:21.599
find out about that. But there
is another element of this, which is

540
00:45:22.039 --> 00:45:28.519
the audio story is often dismissed,
say by people that would advocate for the

541
00:45:28.599 --> 00:45:34.079
lone nut theory as what Yet again, another one of these reports that the

542
00:45:34.199 --> 00:45:38.760
FBI had collected, which there were
many of after the fact, that was

543
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:43.519
like there was Oswald everywhere, there
were people, you know, and you

544
00:45:43.559 --> 00:45:45.199
and I talked about this, We've
joked about this as we've read through this.

545
00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:49.480
You know, all of a sudden, he's in Alaska, he's in

546
00:45:50.199 --> 00:45:53.320
you know, he's in Ohio,
he's in Idaho, he's in he's in

547
00:45:53.400 --> 00:45:58.920
Texas. You know, two hours
later, I mean, you know everywhere.

548
00:45:59.039 --> 00:46:01.400
It was like Oswald was seen everywhere. Yeah, at a certain point.

549
00:46:01.519 --> 00:46:05.840
So they've tried to brush it.
You know, the positors of the

550
00:46:05.840 --> 00:46:08.599
world, so to speak, have
most of the time tried to brush it

551
00:46:08.679 --> 00:46:14.079
into I don't remember if he did
specifically, but guys of his ilk anyway,

552
00:46:14.719 --> 00:46:17.719
have just sort of brushed it into
that category, right. And what

553
00:46:17.760 --> 00:46:21.920
they failed to mention, Chuck is
and what they never mentioned, yes,

554
00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:25.800
and Pausner certainly didn't mention, is
the interesting fact a lot of these stories

555
00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:30.159
are really disconnected, right, which
makes them more mysterious. In Sylvia's case,

556
00:46:30.199 --> 00:46:36.920
what makes hers even more interesting is
that her uncle in New Orleans,

557
00:46:37.239 --> 00:46:43.079
where these guys had said they came
from, was actually in the courtroom with

558
00:46:43.239 --> 00:46:50.960
Lee Harvey Oswall when he was brought
into an answer to his leaf letting issue

559
00:46:51.719 --> 00:46:58.000
on the street. Yeah, her
uncle, fellow named Guitar was actually in

560
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:04.159
the room can be seen Oswell's presence. So if that just adds another element,

561
00:47:04.239 --> 00:47:07.239
that kind of it keeps her going, what in the one? What's

562
00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:13.239
the connection? So Oswald in her
case, Oswald didn't come out of nowhere

563
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:17.480
right, No, she was certainly
was not a figment of her imagination,

564
00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:22.039
because here we go, her uncle's
there. Literally, what you're talking about

565
00:47:22.199 --> 00:47:28.239
is the incident where there is the
alleged fight on the street between Berengear and

566
00:47:28.320 --> 00:47:30.960
Oswald and they're both arrested and Oswald
winds up pain like I think a ten

567
00:47:31.000 --> 00:47:36.840
dollars fine whatever. They let the
other guys go. That whole incident that

568
00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:43.199
led to him getting interviewed on television
and radio. Right here we go,

569
00:47:43.719 --> 00:47:46.880
this is all connected. So again, it's not somebody, Oh I have

570
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:52.280
this crazy idea in my mind.
I think I saw Lee RB Oswald at

571
00:47:52.280 --> 00:47:57.280
the local McDonald's. No, that's
not what happened here, you know.

572
00:47:57.360 --> 00:48:00.599
So again I just I'm glad you
brought that up, because that's great.

573
00:48:00.320 --> 00:48:06.320
Uh, this is not something that's
not interconnected. And yet we still never

574
00:48:06.400 --> 00:48:08.599
got the entirety of the story.
And could it be because somebody was,

575
00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:14.039
you know, doing the creeptastic walk
with a female witness or could it be

576
00:48:14.519 --> 00:48:19.599
that that was intentionally done in order
to completely turn somebody away from the case

577
00:48:19.639 --> 00:48:22.800
and wanting to reveal what it is
they had to reveal. You know,

578
00:48:23.159 --> 00:48:29.400
it's it's interesting because a lot of
the follow through not done by the officials.

579
00:48:29.679 --> 00:48:35.119
Aren't you surprised, Larry, Uh, you know, shocked and amazed?

580
00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:38.000
Yes? Absolutely, I thought some
prayers on it too, you know,

581
00:48:38.159 --> 00:48:43.800
just saying it's it's amazing. So
anyway, that's just part of the

582
00:48:43.920 --> 00:48:49.559
re evaluation of Oswald, that that
you'll be presenting here and putting them in

583
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:52.360
a different context because I think we
are you know again, uh, there

584
00:48:52.400 --> 00:48:57.119
are people out there with with fan
fiction I'll call it where you know,

585
00:48:57.159 --> 00:49:01.400
they turned Lee RB Oswald into James
Bond. Not buying it? Now?

586
00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:07.760
Could he have been a useful asset
to somebody? To a couple of somebody's

587
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:13.199
looks like, yes, you know, but but here we go, h

588
00:49:13.719 --> 00:49:15.559
was he? And oh, by
the way, does it mean that he

589
00:49:15.639 --> 00:49:20.159
was guilty or innocent? I don't
give you an answer there. When people

590
00:49:20.199 --> 00:49:23.159
ask me that, you know,
the whole isn't oz Oswald innocent? I

591
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:25.880
say, well, I don't know. Uh do I do? I think

592
00:49:25.920 --> 00:49:34.000
he's the responsible party for the assassination
as the Loane gunman. No, but

593
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:39.239
how he's involved, what he's involved
in? That nexus again another another title

594
00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:42.400
Larry's books. By the way,
I love using that word when you're on

595
00:49:43.039 --> 00:49:51.239
uh nexus another one. I recommend
that nexus of activity individuals and the confluence

596
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:57.400
of so many different things here makes
it, in my mind impossible to believe

597
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:02.079
this is just the kooky kid that
decided, you know, against a lot

598
00:50:02.119 --> 00:50:07.679
of what his behaviors had shown previously
to one day just decide to make history

599
00:50:07.679 --> 00:50:09.960
with a crap rifle he got from
the mail order place because it was cheap.

600
00:50:12.280 --> 00:50:14.920
Uh. I believe that he would
buy a cheap rifle. I do

601
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:19.840
believe that, because apparently he was
a bit of a planner. Yeah,

602
00:50:19.840 --> 00:50:24.480
Oswald. Oswell never did anything that
Oswald did not plan and sketch out and

603
00:50:24.559 --> 00:50:31.480
prepare for. Oswald did just not
do. Oswell was not spontaneous except when

604
00:50:31.519 --> 00:50:35.320
he got into trouble. And when
he got into trouble, like many of

605
00:50:35.400 --> 00:50:37.840
us, you know, he would
say whatever crossed his mind, you know,

606
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:43.199
like okay, yes, you caught
me with my hand in the till

607
00:50:43.320 --> 00:50:46.320
but it was an accident. But
other than that, no, uh.

608
00:50:47.079 --> 00:50:51.880
And and I think the one comment
I would make is that if after you

609
00:50:51.960 --> 00:50:57.000
get really know and appreciate Lee Harvey
Oswald, if you wanted to use them,

610
00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.320
it would be much better to use
them at a distance then to to

611
00:51:00.320 --> 00:51:05.199
give him an order and think that
he would follow it, because that's not

612
00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:09.119
something I was well did. Oh, and expect that he will improvise given

613
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:13.960
that he doesn't have a plan in
working order, because apparently, I mean,

614
00:51:13.960 --> 00:51:19.119
I would say that clearly all of
his activities show a pension for improvisation.

615
00:51:19.440 --> 00:51:22.920
When the plans evaporate or run out
on him, you know, he

616
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:27.039
runs out of stuff that was planned, you will get some improvisation. It's

617
00:51:27.079 --> 00:51:30.320
not as though he won't take action
one way or another. So you know,

618
00:51:30.519 --> 00:51:37.679
whether it's the the suicidal ideation in
the Soviet Union, or it's some

619
00:51:37.719 --> 00:51:42.599
of the curious answers he gives to
things at certain times to certain people,

620
00:51:43.440 --> 00:51:46.480
or it's deciding to defect and then
you know, so on and so forth.

621
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:51.719
Whatever in your script is not what
it's going to be, right,

622
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:53.719
I mean, you know, after
he asks you know, another woman to

623
00:51:53.719 --> 00:51:57.480
marry him, he does ask another
woman to marry him in Russia, I

624
00:51:57.480 --> 00:52:00.440
mean, you know, not Russia, excuse me, in a what is

625
00:52:00.440 --> 00:52:04.199
now Belarus. Uh, you know, he's willing to ask more than one

626
00:52:04.199 --> 00:52:06.400
woman to marry him in the space
of a couple of months. I mean

627
00:52:06.440 --> 00:52:08.960
just saying, uh, you know, these are these are things he does

628
00:52:09.199 --> 00:52:15.360
when the original plan fails, he
might improvise. I mean that just seems

629
00:52:15.400 --> 00:52:19.119
to be a general characteristic. Also
according to people who knew him intimately,

630
00:52:19.199 --> 00:52:22.159
I mean, little stingy with the
money. I can see him bargain hunting

631
00:52:22.239 --> 00:52:27.599
on the rible I really can't.
But just saying, you know, and

632
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.519
uh, see Marina Oswald, if
you've ever had a conversation with her at

633
00:52:30.599 --> 00:52:35.360
length, I'm told it's even worse
than what I ever got. But just

634
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:39.639
saying, apparently not a guy who
was looking to be extravagant and might try

635
00:52:39.679 --> 00:52:44.360
to save a dollar here there,
just saying, uh. And incredibly,

636
00:52:44.639 --> 00:52:49.119
the way he paid back his you
know, his traveling a loan, I

637
00:52:49.159 --> 00:52:52.519
mean, that's amazing considering what it
was he was. Anyway, that's a

638
00:52:52.519 --> 00:52:55.039
whole other story. But Larry,
I think it's going to be an interesting

639
00:52:55.079 --> 00:53:00.360
conference. We've we've run almost an
hour here because we started a little after

640
00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:04.239
the hour. But is there anything
else you'd like to throw in? Because

641
00:53:04.400 --> 00:53:07.800
we're not going to hear from you
on this show, and I'm hoping to

642
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:13.039
capture a few moments of video here
and there, possibly with you and I,

643
00:53:13.119 --> 00:53:16.039
but maybe some video of you not
necessarily giving your presentation, because I'll

644
00:53:16.079 --> 00:53:20.480
let Lancer, you know, give
those out or whatever. But who knows,

645
00:53:20.519 --> 00:53:23.559
Maybe I can get a couple of
comments from you on video around the

646
00:53:23.559 --> 00:53:28.800
bar there or something. Or maybe
we can have lunch. I don't know,

647
00:53:29.559 --> 00:53:31.800
are you going to the box lunch
setups and all that, or you

648
00:53:31.880 --> 00:53:36.920
just neat at the banquet, So
okay, at certain points we'll get a

649
00:53:37.000 --> 00:53:38.440
chance to eat and talk and everything
else. And like I said, I

650
00:53:38.440 --> 00:53:43.480
hope to get a little bit of
audio or video from you, you know,

651
00:53:43.559 --> 00:53:46.639
when we're in Dallas, And honestly, I might forget to record stuff.

652
00:53:46.840 --> 00:53:49.719
I got a couple of things I
want to give to you when I

653
00:53:49.719 --> 00:53:53.480
see you too, a couple of
little gifts and stuff like that. And

654
00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:57.760
by the way, I know I
got a signature from you a couple of

655
00:53:57.840 --> 00:54:00.840
years ago. I actually have a
book I want you to sign please,

656
00:54:01.960 --> 00:54:06.920
I'll use I promise to use the
same name. Excellent. I would appreciate

657
00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:13.480
that because I have my my very
old someone would have talked hardcover and I

658
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:16.039
would like you to sign that if
you wouldn't mind. But well, I'm

659
00:54:16.039 --> 00:54:20.639
looking forward. I think it's going
to be a unique experience on the sixtieth

660
00:54:20.679 --> 00:54:24.000
in Dallas. Absolutely look any one
of Larry's books. I would highly recommend

661
00:54:24.159 --> 00:54:29.199
by the way, which you can
go to you know Larrydshancock dot com.

662
00:54:29.599 --> 00:54:32.159
There is his blog which he has
blogged about the conference. He's blogged about

663
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:37.000
appearances on this show, other things
going on, is work in the UAP

664
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:42.440
community. Some of his other commentary
responses. I think you you did a

665
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:46.039
blog post about the response to the
Landis revelation too, didn't you? I

666
00:54:46.119 --> 00:54:51.000
did? Yeyep, Okay, just
just checking. But there's a lot of

667
00:54:51.000 --> 00:54:54.440
other stuff over there, and it's
always very interesting. I'm also wanting to

668
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:59.079
get and keep track of any of
these monographs that you're going to put out.

669
00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:05.039
Is there going to be one very
soon about this reevaluation of Oswald,

670
00:55:05.119 --> 00:55:09.159
this entangling or de entangling of the
of the man? Or are we going

671
00:55:09.199 --> 00:55:14.800
to see a monograph about that very
soon. That'll be next year. I

672
00:55:14.840 --> 00:55:19.360
think we'll have that out next year. Uh, it's it's in draft form.

673
00:55:19.559 --> 00:55:22.960
I'm having it peer reviewed by several
people. So yeah, that meant

674
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:29.519
that monograph will come out, but
not not in this year. I would

675
00:55:29.559 --> 00:55:35.199
expect it hopefully to be maybe spring
next year. Again, it's the sort

676
00:55:35.239 --> 00:55:38.039
of thing, as as I've told
many people, if I'm going to be

677
00:55:38.159 --> 00:55:42.719
contrarian, I want to be consistent
when I'm being contrarian, So I need

678
00:55:42.719 --> 00:55:46.679
to have it really checked out.
And since it's it's probably going to take

679
00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:52.679
a different view in many areas than
what is the kind of like establishment view

680
00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:58.599
of Oswald, I need to I
need to get all my ducks in row.

681
00:56:00.400 --> 00:56:01.960
Yeah, fair enough, And and
you know, once again I mean

682
00:56:02.000 --> 00:56:05.599
you also, if you go to
Larry's blog, you can see a list

683
00:56:05.639 --> 00:56:09.719
of presenters that are going to be
at Lancer along with Larry, and you'll

684
00:56:10.000 --> 00:56:15.000
see my name on there as giving
introductions and this kind of thing. Also,

685
00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:16.519
we're going to do stuff in the
breakout room. There may be some

686
00:56:16.639 --> 00:56:22.920
unplanned things that occur here. Let's
see, you're presenting with Boyln. We

687
00:56:22.960 --> 00:56:24.639
also have Robert Groden going to be
at the banquet. By the way,

688
00:56:24.880 --> 00:56:30.519
I think I forgot to mention that
last time. But you're gonna hear from

689
00:56:30.599 --> 00:56:32.679
you know, John, John Carnes
or Cairens. I always forget how to

690
00:56:32.719 --> 00:56:37.440
say that, Larry Schnapf. At
a certain point, we're gonna hear from

691
00:56:37.159 --> 00:56:40.239
Monica Perez, Jimenez. I'm just
giving you a couple of highlights. You're

692
00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:45.159
not gonna list everybody but Stu Wexler, Vince Paul Marra is still on the

693
00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:51.880
bill right, yes, no,
Vince. Vince decided that he had nothing

694
00:56:51.920 --> 00:56:55.039
to say. I see, okay, no problem. He was part of

695
00:56:55.039 --> 00:56:59.079
the bill, but we offered to
let him do a presentation as well,

696
00:56:59.119 --> 00:57:05.679
but it remotely but that did not
happen. Rex Bradford is going to be

697
00:57:05.800 --> 00:57:13.079
speaking twice. He will be doing
an extended presentation on the on basically the

698
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:20.159
history of getting documents, getting documents
released, getting documents accessed in great detail,

699
00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.639
and then he will be speaking at
the keynote on his kind of like

700
00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:30.280
rodent of Rex's personal experiences over several
decades in dealing with the National Archives and

701
00:57:30.400 --> 00:57:34.920
dealing with documents and how did we
get where we are? I mean,

702
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:39.199
people, these just days just accept
the fact that someone can mention a document

703
00:57:39.519 --> 00:57:45.960
and you can go find it online
and they really don't comprehend. We may

704
00:57:46.000 --> 00:57:52.559
not have resolved the assassination, but
we've come a lot ways down the path

705
00:57:52.679 --> 00:57:55.679
with the history, and he'll be
talking about that at the banquet. Well,

706
00:57:57.039 --> 00:58:00.599
you know, if nothing else can
be said, we can certainly say

707
00:58:00.639 --> 00:58:04.679
that we filled out quite a bit
of history over the past, especially twenty

708
00:58:04.719 --> 00:58:08.840
five years, regarding this. A
lot of mystery now has been consigned to

709
00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:13.400
history. We've sorted out a whole
bunch of stuff, which, by the

710
00:58:13.440 --> 00:58:17.599
way, linked to your Oswald you
know, reevaluation. I keep searching for

711
00:58:17.639 --> 00:58:22.320
different words for this because this entanglement
idea is one way to put it,

712
00:58:22.360 --> 00:58:25.679
but I know there's going to be
more to it. Greg my title for

713
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:30.079
it, just to get people the
right perspective I'm trying to Oswald has been

714
00:58:30.079 --> 00:58:35.920
put in boxes. He's been made
one dimensional. The Warren Commission made him

715
00:58:35.960 --> 00:58:42.079
one dimensional because they wanted him to
look a certain way. The research community,

716
00:58:42.239 --> 00:58:45.440
quite frankly, has made him one
dimensional because they want him to look

717
00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:50.079
a certain way. Actually maybe different
ways, but yeah, there's actually a

718
00:58:50.119 --> 00:58:52.239
couple of ways. You know,
there's the innocent Oswald. Then there's the

719
00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:58.079
suspect Oswald. And indeed there are
different people who want to make him,

720
00:58:58.079 --> 00:59:00.960
you know, the angel, and
there there are others that are just attempting

721
00:59:01.000 --> 00:59:07.119
to dislodge him from, you know, being the primary suspect one way or

722
00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:10.519
the other. And those agendas dictate
the boxes that they're putting him in.

723
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:15.599
So yeah, I'm trying to give
him his own dimension. I'm writing about

724
00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:22.719
the Oswald dimension. And the title
working title is Oswald in three Dimensions,

725
00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:27.679
you know, which we don't.
We need to look at him from his

726
00:59:27.719 --> 00:59:30.840
own perspective, how he looked at
the world, what he wrote, what

727
00:59:30.920 --> 00:59:36.280
he said, you know, and
reality checked what we have all been saying

728
00:59:36.320 --> 00:59:43.800
about him. I find it amazing
that people still characterize him as a right

729
00:59:43.880 --> 00:59:51.159
winger, like hidden patriot without ever
having read what he wrote in nineteen sixty

730
00:59:51.199 --> 00:59:59.880
three as to his real group views
on geopolitics and progressivism. And it's right

731
01:00:00.039 --> 01:00:05.920
there in the Warrant Commission. And
I've I don't find anybody or find very

732
01:00:05.920 --> 01:00:07.880
few people without you know, pointing
it out. It's kind of like,

733
01:00:08.320 --> 01:00:14.119
have you read about what he said
about the world himself and and typed and

734
01:00:14.159 --> 01:00:17.039
wrote in the months right before the
assassination. Nope, nope, nope.

735
01:00:17.360 --> 01:00:22.800
Wouldn't that be very important? You
know? How about his speech to the

736
01:00:22.880 --> 01:00:28.079
religious community that he made, If
you guys really looked his own words,

737
01:00:28.559 --> 01:00:31.360
well, that's very important. Reading
some of what he authored, I got

738
01:00:31.360 --> 01:00:37.760
to say he's a little more of
a progressive figure, but certainly nuanced beyond

739
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:42.840
what most people want to allow.
Which is interesting because Greg Dudina is also

740
01:00:43.599 --> 01:00:46.719
doing a thing on the Walker shooting, which is which is different as we

741
01:00:46.960 --> 01:00:51.199
kind of showed talking to him on
this show. He's got a different point

742
01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:55.199
of view about that than I've generally
seen, right, yep, And I'll

743
01:00:55.239 --> 01:00:59.719
be on that panel too. There
you go. Plus you know you'll hear

744
01:00:59.840 --> 01:01:05.480
very truly from say James Corbett and
Carlin Savastano and a few others. Bark

745
01:01:05.519 --> 01:01:10.000
campbe also making the presentation, and
Alex Harris the youngest presenter I've ever heard

746
01:01:10.039 --> 01:01:17.480
of at any of these conferences or
any of these get togethers presentations public education

747
01:01:17.719 --> 01:01:22.840
forms regarding well, the Kennedy assassination. I don't think I've ever heard of

748
01:01:22.840 --> 01:01:27.199
a guy who showed up there at
fourteen, you know, I mean,

749
01:01:27.599 --> 01:01:30.440
this is making me tired, Chuck, there's gonna be so much. I

750
01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:32.760
think I better go rest now,
just to be ready. There you go,

751
01:01:34.199 --> 01:01:37.079
so again, Larry Hancock. Go
to Larry Dashncock dot com. Obviously

752
01:01:37.119 --> 01:01:40.960
follow up on his books regarding the
assassination, but a hell of a lot

753
01:01:42.000 --> 01:01:45.599
more Larry has written about regarding the
behaviors of the national security state, whether

754
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:52.280
it's about UFOs under unidentified and of
course his work regarding UAPs now let's be

755
01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:58.960
correct, and what the national security
state was doing about them. There's an

756
01:01:58.960 --> 01:02:02.400
interesting thing that you're continuously working on
with a group there. But also you

757
01:02:02.480 --> 01:02:07.320
authored that book you have, Creating
Chaos, you have in Denial, which

758
01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:13.880
is about covert operations and not so
covert operations, et cetera, surprise attack.

759
01:02:14.159 --> 01:02:16.199
Guess what the title kind of tells
you what it is, shadow warfare,

760
01:02:16.760 --> 01:02:21.119
on and on. And I don't
list all the books here because I

761
01:02:21.119 --> 01:02:23.119
got to let you go, Larry, but I really appreciate you taking the

762
01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:29.199
time tonight and really looking forward to
seeing you in Dallas. So good.

763
01:02:29.800 --> 01:02:32.760
I am merely O'Kelly and all of
you are indeed the effect. Thank you

764
01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:37.519
for listening, and thank you,
Larry for doing this always a pleasure.

765
01:02:37.639 --> 01:03:15.960
Chuck everybody, good night, Oh
Chili dot Com, wall Stream, Window,

766
01:03:16.119 --> 01:03:27.360
dott Gold Silver, the stock market, wall Stream, Window, dot

767
01:03:27.400 --> 01:03:31.400
dot. Perhaps you're invested deeply,
Perhaps you're not in deep enough. Maybe

768
01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:37.199
you're thinking about getting started. Wall
Street, Windows dot Com, Doo dot

769
01:03:37.239 --> 01:03:40.920
Com. Michael Swanson, the brilliant
author of the War State, understood these

770
01:03:40.960 --> 01:03:45.840
trends professionally for many years, and
now he gives you the benefit of his

771
01:03:45.000 --> 01:03:53.239
knowledge. Wall streetdo dot Dot go
there, now go there, now go

772
01:03:53.440 --> 01:04:00.159
there now. In Denial the Secret
Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock.

773
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:05.880
Secret wars became a staple of US
covert operations and are still happening today.

774
01:04:06.159 --> 01:04:12.519
Larryhancock's book In Denial rips the cover
off many of them, using new files

775
01:04:12.519 --> 01:04:15.280
that exposes things about the Bay and
Pigs that no one has ever written about

776
01:04:15.320 --> 01:04:19.480
before. It shows why it really
failed and why the United States did not

777
01:04:19.679 --> 01:04:25.559
earn from it. It also shows
why other countries today are doing secret operations

778
01:04:25.599 --> 01:04:29.920
with more success. This is the
book that puts what some want to deny

779
01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:35.679
into the light. In Denial,
Secret Wars with air strikes and tanks Larryhncock.

780
01:04:36.880 --> 01:04:41.960
For more information, go to Larry
hyphen Handcock dot com. Pick up

781
01:04:42.000 --> 01:04:45.760
your copy of In Denial at Amazon
dot com, in digital or Physical Force

782
01:04:46.760 --> 01:04:54.079
dot Com Radio Networks. Revelation through
Conversation. The War State by Michael Swanson

783
01:04:54.199 --> 01:04:58.679
explains the great national transformation that took
place and put the Kennedy presidency in the

784
01:04:58.679 --> 01:05:03.119
context of the Times and reveals never
before published information about the Cuban missile crisis.

785
01:05:03.360 --> 01:05:08.400
President Kennedy would not have been assassinated
if he had been president two hundred

786
01:05:08.440 --> 01:05:12.840
years ago. His assassination took place
in the context of the Cold War and

787
01:05:12.960 --> 01:05:15.719
the rise of the national security state. Before World War II, the United

788
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:20.159
States was a continental republic. In
the decade that followed it became an imperial

789
01:05:20.159 --> 01:05:25.880
superpower. Generals such as Curtis LeMay
not only wanted to invade Cuba, but

790
01:05:26.000 --> 01:05:30.079
knew that there were short range missiles
on the island arn't with nuclear warheads that

791
01:05:30.119 --> 01:05:33.119
they could not destroy because they were
on mobile launchers. Their invasion could have

792
01:05:33.199 --> 01:05:38.440
led to a Third World War,
and they wanted to go to war anyway.

793
01:05:38.679 --> 01:05:43.000
The War State by Michael Swanson reveals
why and will show you what President

794
01:05:43.039 --> 01:05:48.920
Kennedy was up against for more information
the warstate dot com nuclear holocaust Lord Millennium

795
01:05:49.000 --> 01:05:55.320
is right, think of nuclear weapons
and other things like watsy Millennium is right

796
01:05:58.960 --> 01:06:13.119
any more dot com radio, go
ahead call it about the JAFA assassination.

797
01:06:13.400 --> 01:06:15.960
Right, Well, what do you
want to know? Tony Baker's wild claim

798
01:06:15.119 --> 01:06:19.400
Oswald girlfriends he knew Ruby and Barry
cancer weapons? Really, I imagine I

799
01:06:19.400 --> 01:06:23.079
could claim I have four wheels.
It doesn't make me a wagon, but

800
01:06:23.159 --> 01:06:27.639
okay, bib and trying to prevent
the murder of John Kennedy, Come on

801
01:06:27.760 --> 01:06:32.079
now has a real effort on the
day as fascination. Go to Amazon dot

802
01:06:32.119 --> 01:06:36.599
com enter Judith Baker in her own
words. You'll get the results for a

803
01:06:36.639 --> 01:06:42.639
digital copy of a book where Walt
Brown utilizes her own words and the known

804
01:06:42.639 --> 01:06:46.679
evidence in the case to get at
well a different perspective. Let's say you

805
01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:51.320
can get Judith Barry Baker in her
own words from the author himself, signed

806
01:06:51.360 --> 01:06:56.719
if you request it by contacting doctor
Brown at k I A S J F

807
01:06:56.880 --> 01:07:01.239
K at aol dot com. It's
a fun book and actually dissects the many,

808
01:07:01.320 --> 01:07:06.000
many fantastic claims Judith Vary Baker in
her own words, thank you for

809
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:10.559
all the great information. If youse
expressed by callers schools, there anyone else

810
01:07:10.559 --> 01:07:12.960
who happens to get on the air
to jelly dot com, you' not necessarily

811
01:07:13.000 --> 01:07:15.840
replied, he views o jelly dot
com or CHUCKO Kelly, and we are

812
01:07:15.880 --> 01:07:18.880
not responsible for any stupidity which you
might ensue. Thank you going to chuck

813
01:07:18.920 --> 01:07:29.880
O Chelly. We're here, Choco
Shelly. You know