WEBVTT 1 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:10.119 Helone. Welcome to Giant Bomb at Night Live from Los Angeles. We are 2 00:00:10.560 --> 00:00:13.640 here for you to talk about Game of the Year, talk about the whole 3 00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:15.880 year, hanging out. We got a bunch of friends, are gonna be 4 00:00:16.320 --> 00:00:18.399 here through of the entire night. We're gonna hang out, have a good 5 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:22.239 time. Looking forward to bringing you a bunch of panels. I'm your host, 6 00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:26.239 Jeff Grubb from Giant Bomb. A couple of notes before we get started. 7 00:00:26.239 --> 00:00:30.399 We're brought to you by RGG Studios like a dragon, infinite wealth. 8 00:00:31.160 --> 00:00:34.159 This wouldn't be possible without that them. I really appreciate them coming in and 9 00:00:34.159 --> 00:00:36.640 give them us that support. This is like a special one off thing. 10 00:00:36.679 --> 00:00:39.079 We do these kinds of things in the summer. We never thought we'd be 11 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:41.960 able to do one during the holidays and kind of meeting up the Game of 12 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:44.880 the Year. It all came together last minute because of that support. So 13 00:00:44.880 --> 00:00:48.240 thank you to them. Thank you to NZXT at our live show, which 14 00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:51.280 I don't think tickets are still available, but if you remaining to buy tickets, 15 00:00:51.280 --> 00:00:53.799 go do it right now. If you're gonna try to walk up the 16 00:00:53.840 --> 00:00:56.600 door, it's just not gonna work for you. But if you go to 17 00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:59.880 the show, or if you go buy tickets right now, you might still 18 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:02.240 have a chance. But in c X is gonna be giving away a computer 19 00:01:02.280 --> 00:01:04.400 at that. Thank you to them. Thank you to point from my cool 20 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:07.519 jacket. Just ask them do we have jacket? Yeah? They were like, 21 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:11.560 we were like, can we have some jacket? Yeah? Yeah, 22 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:12.359 And they were like, yeah, we're going to pay them and they were 23 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:15.359 like, just give them money to charity. So we gave the money to 24 00:01:15.439 --> 00:01:18.280 charity. So thanking them to them, She shout out to their charity. 25 00:01:18.400 --> 00:01:26.760 Thanks, thank you so much. Friends here. Yeah, actually your jacket 26 00:01:26.799 --> 00:01:30.879 was so cool. You puss your microphone exactly. Yeah, it's not even 27 00:01:30.879 --> 00:01:37.280 clipped ball. Really, this, this entire show is gonna be powered by 28 00:01:37.319 --> 00:01:40.280 Jan picks on my microphone and these two crotches right here behind me. So 29 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:44.920 these guys, Yeah, don't do that. I said, don't do that. 30 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:49.599 You said don't do that. Oh God, thanks for help. Jan. 31 00:01:51.359 --> 00:01:53.640 All right, let's introduce this first pan. All I've got a bunch 32 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:56.359 of friends hanging out with me. Uh, Jake Beldino, how are you 33 00:01:56.400 --> 00:02:00.799 doing that? You are like you got you're the fifth person to ask no 34 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:05.840 joke. Absolutely, you want to fight Lucy for if you're happy to be 35 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:08.159 here. Thank you, Lucy James. Hi, how are you doing? 36 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:12.280 I'm doing great. That's my standing right there. Yeah. Yeah, that 37 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:14.360 was the first thing you said when you got here. It's like, that's 38 00:02:14.400 --> 00:02:16.479 mine. Yeah, I didn't even ask. Yeah, absolutely, I'm so 39 00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:21.039 polite a fife. How about you. I feel great because I get to 40 00:02:21.120 --> 00:02:23.879 keep the coolest of all the things that we got. In my opinion, 41 00:02:23.919 --> 00:02:27.560 it was all very cool. And thank you very much again to like a 42 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:30.599 dragon infant wealth for making this all possible. But I'm keeping the sign. 43 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:36.319 Yeah, I mean it's just going to be part of the set for forever. 44 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:38.840 But you know, we something we've always really wanted on this set is 45 00:02:38.879 --> 00:02:44.479 some nice backlight and what what better way than having this great practical It's great, 46 00:02:44.520 --> 00:02:47.599 it's it's fantastic. How do you feel about it? Michael Hyam, 47 00:02:49.080 --> 00:03:00.759 blow that back light out? Yeah that wasn't planned. Sorry, that's just 48 00:03:00.800 --> 00:03:02.719 who I am. That's just who I am. I know something meditated with 49 00:03:02.759 --> 00:03:06.240 you. I know it is some more of saying how are you doing? 50 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:08.719 Saying next to him, I'm going to absorb some of the CCO. That's 51 00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:13.080 why you put me in back. You know what I'm saying, Yes, 52 00:03:13.599 --> 00:03:20.120 is your Can I get like a mug or something? No, we'll think 53 00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:28.879 about it. If you're a good boy, come later your home check. 54 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:31.159 Let's start with you how you feel about video games this year? Can I 55 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:34.719 talk about the Avatar game with you? Guys? How much time do we 56 00:03:34.759 --> 00:03:43.000 have? You want to play? It's literally on or Dora heads. Yeah, 57 00:03:43.439 --> 00:03:46.439 we should tell the story. We were at a previous events for Summer 58 00:03:46.439 --> 00:03:53.280 Game first and we're in this video for Avatar and the Ubisoft presentation starts and 59 00:03:53.360 --> 00:04:02.159 it's a deadly serious presentation. Yeah, it's got Jim Cameron what's he there? 60 00:04:01.800 --> 00:04:08.240 And the very capable So I'm saying with me, Lucy and Jake sitting 61 00:04:08.439 --> 00:04:13.599 down and the very capable you. He's like, of course everyone knows that 62 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:21.000 Jake sually led the revote on Hallelujah Mountain and I just I was Jake is 63 00:04:21.000 --> 00:04:26.560 like this, yeah, yeah, yeah, this man is into it is 64 00:04:26.759 --> 00:04:30.480 legit. Well he's correct, he's objectively correct about it on Avatar. This 65 00:04:30.600 --> 00:04:33.279 man's an Avatar Mark. I'm telling you, it's it's uh, it's it's 66 00:04:33.319 --> 00:04:36.480 sweet, like it's it's got a lot of the you know, open world 67 00:04:36.519 --> 00:04:46.680 stuff I'm really sick of. But but it's cool to be blue, like 68 00:04:46.959 --> 00:04:50.519 so that it has the Kermit s that has sixty nine, it has the 69 00:04:50.759 --> 00:04:55.319 it has like the movie moments like you know, getting your bird your ikron 70 00:04:55.439 --> 00:05:00.519 if you will and no, there's just getting your bird up those of us 71 00:05:00.519 --> 00:05:05.639 who are not, Yeah, like we need to prove it, you know, 72 00:05:05.920 --> 00:05:09.279 like you do the whole thing and you do like the you like do 73 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:12.439 the ritual. The music swells and like it has a lot of those like 74 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:16.240 really cool. Do you start the game as like a human person? You 75 00:05:16.319 --> 00:05:28.000 play as an actual apole and then growing that sport? Okay, no difference 76 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:31.600 is please do you have the Yeah all the time and they show because it's 77 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:35.040 all the time, so like you get to see them grab it and you 78 00:05:35.040 --> 00:05:44.079 see the coming and like grab grab, yeah you blow the back, like 79 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.439 yeah, absolutely. Can I ask you you the villain? Do you think 80 00:05:48.480 --> 00:05:54.399 that it looks a lot likes right? I didn't even think of that, 81 00:05:54.439 --> 00:05:58.040 but yes, yeah, I'm just saying what are they doing there? Who's 82 00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:01.160 No. If I was making a game, I would also put my boss 83 00:06:01.160 --> 00:06:04.560 in there as the villain, like yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. 84 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:09.040 But it's it's cool. I just like the It's like it's that game 85 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:11.959 that like at the very end of the year usually like gets lost in the 86 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:15.360 scuffle. But I think like some people who are like really obsessed with that 87 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.959 two thousand and nine game are gonna like this one because that was that one 88 00:06:18.000 --> 00:06:20.560 was kind of like jacked up, but some people really loved it because they 89 00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:24.519 loved the movie and they got like, so this is like way better than 90 00:06:24.519 --> 00:06:27.600 that. The world is insane. Yes, it's weirdly a perfect time for 91 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:30.759 that game to come out. I agree, yeah, because it's not it's 92 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:32.959 not gonna win any awards or doing anything like that. Like it may be 93 00:06:33.000 --> 00:06:35.800 a winning award, but like no one's like looking for innovation out of this 94 00:06:35.839 --> 00:06:39.680 Avatar game. So and we always talk about how games that come out in 95 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.040 this period usually get lost and that's why they don't succeed. But this is 96 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:46.759 a license game that as soon as it's on shelf, it's it's like it's 97 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:49.560 good for a year or two or whatever. So this seems like the perfect 98 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:53.000 time for them to put that out and be like we don't have to worry 99 00:06:53.000 --> 00:06:55.360 about that. We'll check in with it in a year's time and it would 100 00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.759 have sold like eight million copies that the normal is gonna see this on the 101 00:06:58.759 --> 00:07:00.360 shelf. Yeah, and they're going to that's that's the Christmas game. I'm 102 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:05.160 not interested in this game at all, but I am fascinating. I know, 103 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:11.199 I know, but because it went with my with my shirt, No, 104 00:07:11.240 --> 00:07:14.319 but I am. I really want to know more about Jake and your 105 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:20.399 journey to Pandora today. So you're named off the Jake, how does he 106 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:28.360 what's here is the White Saviors? Like, yeah, oh my god, 107 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:31.759 share it with you later, Okay, Yeah, I'm just happy to Worthington's 108 00:07:31.800 --> 00:07:35.639 getting work. I think he's He was in The Terminator, the Weird One. 109 00:07:35.720 --> 00:07:41.199 Yeah, he was also in uh wasn't in the Unibomber series. I 110 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:44.600 think he was like the detective in the I think that was He was really 111 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.959 good. It was really good in Under the Battery of Heaven about the Oh 112 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:53.879 yeah, yeah, it was good too. I think it was on maybe 113 00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:56.959 Discovery or something. It was on some very random network. I was I 114 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.959 was doing a show at the time. We're keeping up with a bunch of 115 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.439 different TV shows, and that was one of the ones that we chose to 116 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:09.800 cover for one just I feel like I said that that drill to it. 117 00:08:09.839 --> 00:08:16.319 You don't, under any circumstances have to give it to the unibom. Yes, 118 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:18.839 Jake, I mean you want to talk a little bit more about the 119 00:08:18.839 --> 00:08:20.120 game, But do you enjoy it like you were having a good time with 120 00:08:20.199 --> 00:08:24.600 it? It's yeah, it's definitely like my my critical brain is like, 121 00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:26.959 yeah, I think it's fun to turn that off sometimes, right, exactly, 122 00:08:28.199 --> 00:08:31.679 like seven out of ten goes down real good after like a month and 123 00:08:31.720 --> 00:08:33.840 a half of trying to play all the games of the year, Yes, 124 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.720 right, yeah, and it hit exactly like RoboCop did. I mean, 125 00:08:37.759 --> 00:08:39.519 I love robo Cop more so that was different, but it was the same 126 00:08:39.559 --> 00:08:43.320 thing where it's like, this game's definitely like, got some weird things I 127 00:08:43.320 --> 00:08:50.399 don't like, but I am here to just be blue. I knew that 128 00:08:50.759 --> 00:08:56.559 yourself. It was soon seal gang whoaverne no no no no no no no 129 00:08:56.559 --> 00:09:01.679 no no no no no no no no no. That I believe that's is 130 00:09:01.679 --> 00:09:03.320 that? Susio? Is that what that is? It depends on how you 131 00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:07.440 ask. If you ask me and janis Bostos, okay, if you ask 132 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:11.200 anyone of Latin origin, it is uh yeah, what's the what's the friend 133 00:09:11.320 --> 00:09:16.360 zone? The show? Hoo are you getting canceled right now? Yo? 134 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:22.279 Hey, I don't know. Yeah, this is this is all chances everybody. 135 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:28.039 Yeah, you can't cancel. You can cancel me maybe, Lucy James, 136 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:33.759 how are you doing? Yeah, I don't listen. I had a 137 00:09:33.759 --> 00:09:35.679 good time playing video games this year, and then I had to do a 138 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:37.759 daily news show and I was like, huh, this industry seems kind of 139 00:09:37.759 --> 00:09:41.840 whack. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's been one uh huh, And 140 00:09:41.879 --> 00:09:46.759 I'm like, but it's it's because the reality on the ground feels very different 141 00:09:46.759 --> 00:09:48.320 than when like you're looking at all these games, like they're all very good, 142 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.679 and they're all selling, and everyone seems really happy to spend a lot 143 00:09:50.679 --> 00:09:54.000 of money on this stuff. I don't know, does that change how you 144 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.360 feel when you go to cover games, like like, oh, we have 145 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:00.799 to keep in mind that there are real people behind these things, and we 146 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:03.000 want to maybe put that first and foremost. I mean, I kind of 147 00:10:03.120 --> 00:10:05.799 I guess we're in a very privileged position, all of us, because we 148 00:10:05.840 --> 00:10:13.559 all beaten all the time. Goddamn it, We've meet talks all the time, 149 00:10:13.559 --> 00:10:16.840 and so you kind of have more of that insight into the realities of 150 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.320 making games and how difficult it is. And then this year has just been 151 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.080 so brutal that I don't know about you guys that like I cannot just like 152 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:28.320 pick up a game and not see or hear or think about what's gone into 153 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:33.240 making it and the reality of the ship show that has been this year and 154 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:39.639 capitalism in general. Absolutely, do you have a favorite game that you think 155 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.120 got forgotten other than Poulterers Kate three? Of course, no one's talking about 156 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:50.159 favorite game that no one's talking about. I want more people to be talking 157 00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:56.960 about Dredge always Cosmo though, like fifty times I don't know what it is. 158 00:10:58.039 --> 00:11:00.799 Oh, let her, you came to the right person. Yeah, 159 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:05.159 tell me about Zach Gage and his team. So they basically take those newspaper 160 00:11:05.200 --> 00:11:09.840 classic games like doing Zudoku and they make apps like Beautiful clean, taking the 161 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.000 idea of like the everyday puzzle and then just making this beautiful clap. They've 162 00:11:13.039 --> 00:11:18.080 made a newspaper game platform and so every day you'd log in, there's a 163 00:11:18.080 --> 00:11:20.679 bunch of different puzzles changes every day. They are leaderboards you can get your 164 00:11:20.679 --> 00:11:26.840 friends in, and it's just so's the words of ta Hikoro's simple and clean 165 00:11:26.879 --> 00:11:31.039 and it's beautiful, and it's just I love puzzles, man like genuine I'm 166 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:33.919 the I'm the sticker who pays five bucks a month for New York Times. 167 00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:39.000 We did Connections today as a little team exercise. Actions. Today's one was 168 00:11:39.399 --> 00:11:46.559 bullshit. Jeff Bakla almost almost cried, don't make me have to say that 169 00:11:46.600 --> 00:11:48.440 I got it perfect right away. You could say it, go ahead, 170 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.759 I just did perfect. He did it. But he also did it in 171 00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.000 difficulty order, which was the most impressing. Yep, that was lucky. 172 00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.559 I normally a terrible that game. So there you go. There's my dirty 173 00:12:01.600 --> 00:12:03.840 secret. And how are you feeling about video games in twenty twenty three? 174 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.759 It is, as you say, like such a mixed thing because I think 175 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:11.720 that there were so many unbelievable games this year. You know, it was 176 00:12:11.720 --> 00:12:15.320 one of those things when the Game of the Year nominations came out, it 177 00:12:15.360 --> 00:12:16.759 was like, oh, some games that I've played that I thought were fantastic 178 00:12:16.799 --> 00:12:20.960 are not nominated for End of the Year, like you know, Yellow four. 179 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:26.080 But at the same time, there were so many extremely good games. 180 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:35.080 But there is an acute awareness behind the human cost not to be a total 181 00:12:35.120 --> 00:12:39.399 bummer, but you know it's I mean, it's like good to take stock 182 00:12:39.440 --> 00:12:41.240 of that thing. Yeah, right, a little bit where it's like, 183 00:12:41.519 --> 00:12:43.639 yeah, it's it's easy to go into the Game Awards to be like let's 184 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:46.559 celebrate and yeah, I don't. I know a lot of people like asking 185 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:50.120 Jeff Keey like acknowledge this, this and this and this and this, and 186 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.279 it's like some of those things should definitely acknowledged. But it's like it's hard, 187 00:12:54.360 --> 00:12:56.600 yeah, because you want to be just selling video games at sham point 188 00:12:56.600 --> 00:13:01.600 because that's how he makes money and it but it's when people are getting laid 189 00:13:01.600 --> 00:13:05.879 off of work. Destiny story that came up, Yeah, amazing job to 190 00:13:05.879 --> 00:13:11.879 read always yes early on a jam bumps like which word are you reading? 191 00:13:11.960 --> 00:13:15.039 My Readvalentine. She always gets the good angles and she's just doing the good 192 00:13:15.039 --> 00:13:18.720 hard work. But yeah, it's uh, it's it's good to like just 193 00:13:18.759 --> 00:13:20.879 taste stock in the look back and kind of figure out is the industry in 194 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:26.519 a healthy place overall? It feels like it probably secretly is. Headlines don't 195 00:13:26.519 --> 00:13:28.720 make it feel though you know they don't. But what I will say was 196 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:33.840 a real positive this year in gaming is the Saxonist level of the characters. 197 00:13:33.879 --> 00:13:37.919 Oh yes, yeah, I mean yeah, we're obviously like this is a 198 00:13:37.960 --> 00:13:41.399 game that comes out next year, but we are literally, you know, 199 00:13:41.399 --> 00:13:45.320 we're just wrepping these guys. Yeah, we're hot. Guy. Yeah, 200 00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:52.519 you love you love sureless men. Oh yeah, I mean, you know, 201 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.399 like Balder's Gate, very satisfying. You know, I hooked up with 202 00:13:56.480 --> 00:14:01.279 a lot of different are you. Are you in a Darian sickle of course? 203 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.559 Yeah? Yeah, gang yeah, Michael Ham, how do you feel 204 00:14:05.600 --> 00:14:07.320 about sex and games? How do you think about all the fucking Yo? 205 00:14:07.679 --> 00:14:11.879 There needs to be more smashing and videos? Me. You play Smash bro 206 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:16.879 the smash smash mall bros. That's the younger. The franchise just got revealed. 207 00:14:16.879 --> 00:14:20.000 That shit better have hot coffee off the bat im trying to boy, 208 00:14:20.120 --> 00:14:24.240 no files, I need that organic hot coffee. Put the game shark away. 209 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.559 I just put it up front. Give it to me, you know 210 00:14:26.559 --> 00:14:30.799 what I'm saying. Yeah, my Game of the Year did not have any 211 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:35.000 smashing in it. Uh? Whoa, Actually no, what was your O? 212 00:14:35.159 --> 00:14:37.600 Pat Traveler too? Let me tell you, but let me talk to 213 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:39.679 you. Let me talk to you about a game that got snubbed at the 214 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:43.679 game. Yeah, that was my I feel pretty salty about that. That's 215 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:50.399 your number one except on GameSpot dot com, one of the top ten games 216 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.159 of twenty other real game of the year. Yeah, you know what I'm 217 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.080 saying. Uh No, the one thing that I'm I usually don't get salty 218 00:14:56.080 --> 00:15:00.840 about the war shows because you know, I know what they are, you 219 00:15:00.879 --> 00:15:03.559 know, no big deal. But best Music or Best Soundtrack, it did 220 00:15:03.559 --> 00:15:07.720 not get nominated for that. Listen, who knows who might rush rush the 221 00:15:07.759 --> 00:15:16.480 stage this year? I mean watching Michael High, I heard you were planning 222 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:22.320 a sick out mine, so I was or I am, okay, so 223 00:15:22.399 --> 00:15:28.120 you see it tomorrow, but rushed the station. I love this. Everyone 224 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.799 was talking about his crazy security this year. I hope the security is like 225 00:15:33.159 --> 00:15:41.720 in the last year. Keeley learned like some runs up. He just like 226 00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:46.159 handles it so bad. At some point I gotta take care of I wanted 227 00:15:46.200 --> 00:15:48.279 to be like the scene in Wayne's World too, where he opens the door 228 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.679 and there's like Commando's training and stuff like this opens doors, like everyone, 229 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:54.919 look, this is what you'll deal with presenting the game awards Commando. Yes, 230 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.600 that's usually how the ceremony opens, it's just you. You get a 231 00:15:58.600 --> 00:16:07.799 look at the behind the scenes of the commandos who are all gearing up exactly 232 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:14.240 to the game. How have you could help You used to work at defense, 233 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.320 right Yeah? Yeah, no, no, no, So I was 234 00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:21.120 I was like looking up. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be talking 235 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:22.799 to people. I should do a little bit of background LinkedIn, you know. 236 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:29.600 I was actually I was writing I Am for you. I was like 237 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:33.679 going through your old tweets, your early tweets, and I wrote this one 238 00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:41.200 down. I only feel safe around Filipinos. It was, that's up if 239 00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:47.320 you can help my boy out. I wrote that down. I'm like, 240 00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:48.600 what about even gonna do with that? I'm like, I'll just I'll just 241 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.399 say it. Yeah, just go for it. If you're if you all 242 00:16:52.399 --> 00:16:55.480 are at the game wards and you're Filipino, sit next to me. Please, 243 00:16:55.960 --> 00:16:57.279 I feel safe even if you're not, Like I feel safe around Filipinos 244 00:16:57.279 --> 00:17:04.119 too, Like, damn you did you feel safe? I feel great? 245 00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:07.680 Yeah, I feel safe always around Michael Home. Yeah. Absolutely. How 246 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.720 you feel about games in twenty twenty three? Oh man, I mean I 247 00:17:11.759 --> 00:17:18.160 think it's the same story, like it is a mess in so many different 248 00:17:18.200 --> 00:17:22.279 ways. I feel like it's it's a challenge that has It feels like one 249 00:17:22.279 --> 00:17:29.319 of those like monumental years where it's make or break for the industry in a 250 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:32.440 lot of ways, where it's like, you know, it's it's coming off 251 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:37.400 the pandemic and then that that caused people to behave in certain ways from a 252 00:17:37.400 --> 00:17:41.160 business perspective and like a hr perspective, whatever it may be, and now 253 00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:42.799 the economic side of it is coming in. There's all a bunch of compounding 254 00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:47.119 things where and then AI the rise of AI, and then AI is starting 255 00:17:47.160 --> 00:17:49.920 to creep into development and acting and all that kind of stuff. It feels 256 00:17:51.000 --> 00:17:55.839 like the challenges that video games and video games creators face our multitude right now, 257 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.480 and it feels like there's a very good chance that things could plode or 258 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.880 explode, But it also feels like there's a bunch of developers that are set 259 00:18:03.960 --> 00:18:07.359 up for success in a lot of ways that could become the model for you 260 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:12.400 know, how other companies bigger now do it. It feels like now there's 261 00:18:12.440 --> 00:18:15.519 a long discussion. It always has been like the double A market has gone. 262 00:18:15.559 --> 00:18:19.559 People don't make double A games, and it's because double A developers vanished 263 00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.920 for a really long time, and now we have like almost NDIE developers are 264 00:18:22.920 --> 00:18:27.160 graduating to double A developers and they go on their back year, and a 265 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:32.960 lot of those developers, like you, they have much better kind of working 266 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:37.720 practices and also scope scale, and they function on a business level that isn't 267 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:41.240 driven by capitalists, you know, and the CEOs that are always trying to 268 00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:47.680 hit milestone metrics to at the expense of the people who are actually doing the 269 00:18:47.759 --> 00:18:49.480 day to day work. So it feels like there's enough of them that they 270 00:18:49.519 --> 00:18:52.720 could not fill in the gap, because I don't want to say a gap 271 00:18:52.799 --> 00:18:56.279 is going to be created, but like there's still a very solid, healthy 272 00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:00.440 foundation to the video game world, and I think this year has been really 273 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.960 good example of that, considering like our Game of the Year has got a 274 00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:07.799 bunch of different contenders in discussion. It wasn't just you know, Baldersgate, 275 00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.839 Alan Wake Zelda. We had Cocun, we had Dredge, we had Octopath 276 00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:14.039 Traveler, which is from a bigger developer, you know, but still we 277 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:17.359 had a hit Man, Freelancer, an independent studio. If you think about 278 00:19:17.400 --> 00:19:18.880 it, there's enough of those that are still, like I feel like now 279 00:19:18.920 --> 00:19:23.400 more than ever, mid tier Indye tiers can kick it alongside top tiers because 280 00:19:23.440 --> 00:19:29.279 top tier, in the struggle to make more and more money, they're being 281 00:19:29.319 --> 00:19:33.720 safer and safer, and the mid tier and Indye tier are really where the 282 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:37.519 good stuff is happening now. Like the most interesting games are like cocuon Chance 283 00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:40.440 of Scenari trend, that kind of stuff. Everything else is like, as 284 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.880 much as we love Alan Wake, it's still and that is probably like the 285 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:45.720 worst example of it because it's an idea with crazy, you know, crazy 286 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:48.759 ideas and a lot of risks, and same with balders Gate, but pretty 287 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:51.680 much everything else is like, yeah, I kind of expected it. It's 288 00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:55.799 a good execution. So I feel like it's not a great place right now. 289 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:59.079 But I don't think it's all doom and gloom. I think we've got 290 00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:03.920 enough safety. It's that there's going to be people who fight and like really 291 00:20:03.920 --> 00:20:07.839 struggle to keep the industry healthy. I think it's like what you're describing as 292 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:12.240 like the system that all these developers exist in, it is always moving, 293 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.039 and like, yeah, so that that space that you're talking about that a 294 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:18.359 lot of these smaller students are moving into, they are they may have better 295 00:20:18.400 --> 00:20:22.160 practices right now. I don't think that necessarily will last, but what will 296 00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.440 happen is new studios will come up under ease them and they continue to fill 297 00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:26.960 up that space and it kind of all flows upward. And it's like, 298 00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:30.000 as long as there is an end goal of like, hey there's money at 299 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.039 the top, we're going to keep kind of growing. And that infinite growth 300 00:20:33.160 --> 00:20:38.799 is is like it's you know, it's it's interesting because I feel like there 301 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.720 is a parallel in terms of what's going on within the gaming industry that is 302 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:48.119 also happening across entertainment, you know, in film and television. And it 303 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:52.480 was things like with the sack striking, with the writers strike, the companies 304 00:20:52.519 --> 00:20:56.119 that were getting granted these waivers because they were like, sure, will agree 305 00:20:56.160 --> 00:21:00.119 to the terms and conditions. Were the indie production Yes, And it feels 306 00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.640 like the indie game companies are Yes, they are yeah, exactly. Yeah. 307 00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:07.799 The business model has changed in a way as well right now, Like 308 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:14.160 you don't entirely need these giant publishers to fund everything you have Kickstarter, you 309 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:18.599 have you know, smaller companies. Yeah. Yeah. Figure also like companies 310 00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:22.680 like for example, yeah, private division Devolver, who their goal isn't to 311 00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:26.759 make every game a call of duty. The goal is to find small wins 312 00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:30.200 in different places, and I feel like that is an important part of it. 313 00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.880 But also I think these days developers are a little more savvy in how 314 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:38.000 they handle their own IP and the potential that affords them. You know, 315 00:21:38.119 --> 00:21:42.920 a studio like Supermassive, for example, they made Hades. They are easily 316 00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:48.160 one of the biggest developers right now because of the game that they made, 317 00:21:48.200 --> 00:21:52.000 but their team is still relatively small and they hold that IP. So you 318 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:56.400 know, when a Netflix Netflix comes along and they're like, we want to 319 00:21:56.519 --> 00:22:00.680 we want to turn Hades into an anime or something like that. That's a 320 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:06.480 new that's a new revenue pipeline just for them. Like it doesn't go through 321 00:22:06.519 --> 00:22:08.880 a publisher, takes a lot of that money and then it trickles down to 322 00:22:08.920 --> 00:22:14.240 these developers and over time that kind of ends up in them falling apart. 323 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:19.720 It's like the greediest people are being punished right now, and there's a sweetness 324 00:22:19.720 --> 00:22:23.359 to that retribution. The sad part of it is whoas who pays for it. 325 00:22:23.359 --> 00:22:26.480 The people who are paying for other people who doing the hardest work are 326 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:32.160 the least deserving of that punishment, like for it comes downwards. My hope 327 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:34.720 is like these people will also realize that now more than ever, it's so 328 00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:38.119 viable to set up your own little thing and figure something out right. I 329 00:22:38.119 --> 00:22:41.079 mean, money's not as cheap as it was, so it's like a little 330 00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:45.359 bit more difficult. But there's still a lot of investment happening because a lot 331 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:48.000 of these investors believe that hits can happen, and it's a hit driven business. 332 00:22:48.039 --> 00:22:51.920 When we talk about hades, it's like a big hit taking off that 333 00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:53.839 works. I think that when we go a tier down, I think it 334 00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:56.799 still mostly works. But even if you might not have Netflix knocking at your 335 00:22:56.839 --> 00:23:00.519 door, but you probably can work your way up to that time. But 336 00:23:00.759 --> 00:23:06.440 I mean, I think the idea that the democratization of tools has happened. 337 00:23:06.480 --> 00:23:08.519 We are fully here. Anyone could start. We're going to keep getting a 338 00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.039 lot of games, and if that's your primary concern, you don't have to 339 00:23:11.039 --> 00:23:15.079 worry about anything. If you didn't go a step deeper and like you start 340 00:23:15.079 --> 00:23:18.200 worrying about the people, the system feels a little bit more broken than it 341 00:23:18.240 --> 00:23:22.160 even does in movies and television, where it's like it's understood you're going from 342 00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:26.359 one gig to another. You have that big industry wide union that understands that 343 00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:27.680 you are not going to have a permanent job at a lot of these places. 344 00:23:27.920 --> 00:23:32.359 And it's like, secretly the gaming industry is built that way where for 345 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:33.160 a very long time, it was, especially when it was in the pre 346 00:23:33.279 --> 00:23:36.319 order era, where it's like, hey, you got all the pre order 347 00:23:36.359 --> 00:23:38.000 money. Now we got all that money and we're done making the game, 348 00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:41.799 goodbye. You're now laid off. And it's like that's changed a little bit. 349 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:45.640 And the hope was live service games would come in and really paced over 350 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.279 that and enable these people to keep these jobs for longer. Obviously that's not 351 00:23:49.359 --> 00:23:53.000 working, so it's like there is unanswered questions. I think overall, you're 352 00:23:53.039 --> 00:23:56.839 right, that's like it still feels like things are mostly working, even it's 353 00:23:56.839 --> 00:24:00.279 like we don't wear at a low side for a lot of sen in it. 354 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.240 My major concern is like how it looks to people who are trying to 355 00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:06.920 get into the industry. Now I can actually tell you that. So a 356 00:24:06.920 --> 00:24:10.359 friend of mine works for charity in the UK and she works with like getting 357 00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:14.519 young people into the workplace. She hit me up before I went on holiday 358 00:24:14.559 --> 00:24:15.640 to Amstam and she was like, Hey, I'm goingly looking to get some 359 00:24:15.839 --> 00:24:19.160 you know, get the kids involved in making games. I'm going to voice 360 00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:22.440 note you a bunch of stuff. Can you reply to this when you get 361 00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.440 back from your holiday and listen to the voice note? And then it was 362 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:27.720 like saying all that like details, and I sent her a big thing back. 363 00:24:27.759 --> 00:24:30.240 I was like, yeah, we can do this these people and she 364 00:24:30.319 --> 00:24:33.880 went, yep, we saw what the landscape looks like and we are not 365 00:24:34.000 --> 00:24:37.559 encouraging kids to get into it right now. That's that's the hardest part of 366 00:24:37.599 --> 00:24:41.720 it, because like the thing that everyone is seeing is the biggest companies imploding 367 00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:45.440 the embraces, the EA's that kind of stuff, and that is what that's 368 00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.000 because that's what it hits the headlines, right That's the stuff that we report 369 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:53.000 on. We don't report as much on the successes that we don't know. 370 00:24:53.119 --> 00:24:56.359 We still don't know. We don't net is I don't know where the net 371 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:02.000 is. Positive Everyone who's like looking at and assessing can I make a real 372 00:25:02.039 --> 00:25:06.559 goal making video games? They see the big skyscrapers on fire. They don't 373 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.799 see that like at the ground level there's really nice little cafes and you know 374 00:25:10.039 --> 00:25:15.359 that kind of. But then there's also from the UK this week the changes 375 00:25:15.400 --> 00:25:19.319 to immigration laws. Yes, that's gonna let's explain, like what that is. 376 00:25:19.319 --> 00:25:23.799 It's basically the changing immigration to basically say that if I think it's your 377 00:25:23.799 --> 00:25:30.359 partner has to earn forty and a half thousand GBP. Oh no, so 378 00:25:33.960 --> 00:25:37.160 what it was before it was like twenty one thousand. It's allocating, that's 379 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:41.559 point. So in terms of junior level roles, like all my friends who 380 00:25:41.559 --> 00:25:45.359 are in the UK development and like this is no, this is right, 381 00:25:45.359 --> 00:25:48.920 And twenty one thousand was already hard to reach on its so moving it up 382 00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.319 to thirty eight and a half basically going to make it impossible. And this 383 00:25:52.400 --> 00:25:56.559 is going to cause a difficulty in hiring people from outside the UK essentially with 384 00:25:56.640 --> 00:26:02.279 junior roles too, like you need to have that experience and obviously you need 385 00:26:02.319 --> 00:26:03.519 to be compensated for it, but there you want to be an attractive place 386 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:06.640 to work, and it's like you want to be like an impossible place to 387 00:26:06.680 --> 00:26:08.000 work and it's gone. That's where the UK's headed, right is because of 388 00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:14.880 the Tories. Yeah yeah, man, that's the official position of Giant bombime 389 00:26:14.880 --> 00:26:19.720 Bomb say get a stepstone, jump on my butt, That's what I say. 390 00:26:21.160 --> 00:26:23.200 But yeah, like it seems like a very down segment. The games 391 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:26.759 this year have been incredible, we say every year, but one of the 392 00:26:26.799 --> 00:26:32.680 best years in video gaming history totally and like it's it's not. I think 393 00:26:32.720 --> 00:26:36.480 the big takeaway is like it's games on all levels that we can really appreciate. 394 00:26:36.519 --> 00:26:40.920 The Ballders games and all awakes, the Robocops and the Exo Primals remates. 395 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.920 Yeah, the Rema made the Avatars the Weeks, like you said in 396 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:48.599 the Humanity and Chances Incenar and both of those just hit me so hard. 397 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:52.200 I like even you know, like the Dead Space remake that hits so good 398 00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:56.279 audio, very easy to forget. Yeah, so there are amazing games being 399 00:26:56.279 --> 00:27:00.200 made across the spectrum. The human cost is devastating and it's sad. I 400 00:27:00.279 --> 00:27:02.960 just feel like it. I'm not saying like, oh, we should ignore 401 00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:04.279 it, but like there is hope to be had in the industry as well. 402 00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:07.880 Yeah, I think you're right then to say to just straight to say 403 00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:10.799 that the camera it's not dooming gloom, like there bad things are happening. 404 00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:14.400 We're acknowledging we should acknowledge that we should push back against it. I also 405 00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:18.079 want to say there's been an incredible outpouring of community, like every time one 406 00:27:18.079 --> 00:27:22.119 of these awful layoffs happen, Like there's like groups on linked in the slack 407 00:27:22.200 --> 00:27:26.359 this discord trying to get people roles and like offering things like hey, I'll 408 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:27.880 go for your resume, or I'll look at your portfolio for you. I'll 409 00:27:27.920 --> 00:27:30.640 have a free mentoring session around so like, there are also these people in 410 00:27:30.640 --> 00:27:34.119 the community who are like build these people. I will say, though, 411 00:27:34.279 --> 00:27:40.799 please, I'm as someone who has experience in looking for places to work at 412 00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.839 various points in my life, is that the more you see layoffs more often 413 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.519 than you see expansion from companies who are willing to hire. So at least 414 00:27:48.599 --> 00:27:52.079 right now and in like the immediate future, there are fewer jobs and there 415 00:27:52.119 --> 00:27:56.519 are people who are keeping And that comes back to like the macroeconomic stuff. 416 00:27:56.519 --> 00:27:59.359 This is probably happening across all industries. We're noticing it and gaming, but 417 00:27:59.400 --> 00:28:03.039 it's real and like these companies are not being cavalier with how they're spending money. 418 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:06.119 I mean, I go back to the Bungee story and like how they 419 00:28:06.160 --> 00:28:08.839 are shrinking all of their benefits and it's a hiring freeze and they're not paying 420 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:14.480 for travel anymore. And they had like monthly knitting classes now they're quarterly and 421 00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.880 stuff like that. It's like to take that extrapl like that to the rest 422 00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:21.400 of the industry. That's what's happening, whether it's making games or covering games 423 00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:23.799 or whatever anything related to that. So yeah, it's it could be. 424 00:28:25.119 --> 00:28:27.319 It could be discouraging if you are a young person trying to look to get 425 00:28:27.319 --> 00:28:30.799 into one of these traditional jobs. It also makes like the next couple of 426 00:28:30.839 --> 00:28:33.559 days really interesting in a weird way. Like we pull out our Game of 427 00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:37.440 the Year top ten and announced in our Game of the Year list, which 428 00:28:37.480 --> 00:28:41.160 was written by pretty much everyone on staff, Like it begins with, hey, 429 00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:44.880 this industry is sucking right now, but like we have to acknowledge that 430 00:28:44.920 --> 00:28:48.400 while also being excited about these games, and it's not easy to do that, 431 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:49.319 and we have to do it again with the Game Awards. We're all 432 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:52.839 going to be excited about this show that's going to happen and we get probably 433 00:28:52.880 --> 00:28:56.519 to see exciting reveals and the lay of the land for the next few for 434 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:00.200 the next year, but in the back of it was always going to be 435 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:03.160 that like at what costs? Yeah, you know. It's one of those 436 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.559 things though, where you need to find the joy in the darkness so that 437 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:12.400 you can still acknowledge the WS. It's like playing Sonic six. Yeah, 438 00:29:15.440 --> 00:29:18.240 the darkest thing imaginable. Let's turn this around. Let's turn this around. 439 00:29:19.839 --> 00:29:23.319 We're gonna turn this around. We're gonna turn this around, and I'm gonna 440 00:29:23.319 --> 00:29:26.799 ask Jake, what is your Hidden Gem of thee I actually had a Martian 441 00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.559 I kind of wanted to derail things a little bit. Please, does David 442 00:29:30.599 --> 00:29:45.119 the Diver do sex? I didn't just smashed diving into a few things. 443 00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:52.240 Name I'm trying so hard not to say it does doesn't smash, but I 444 00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:53.240 do want to know what you're a hidden Gem of the Year is because I 445 00:29:53.279 --> 00:29:56.279 watched a lot of your videos and you always like to talk about the big 446 00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:59.160 games, but I know you're playing stuff on the side as well. I 447 00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:04.599 hate to sound like a like a Lucy, but it's stretch. I'm sorry, 448 00:30:04.599 --> 00:30:10.920 I don't want to read I totally know it's dredged. Dredge. It 449 00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:14.559 was definitely like just a vibes based game that I really like that was the 450 00:30:14.640 --> 00:30:18.240 or else recommendation that was it was that's right, it was Yeah, and 451 00:30:18.240 --> 00:30:22.000 then you got on it and you told me and yeah, sure enough. 452 00:30:22.039 --> 00:30:25.799 I think I think just the compelling hook of it's a fishing game. You 453 00:30:25.839 --> 00:30:29.680 go out on your boat, but it's mysterious. Yeah. And there's like 454 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.119 a you know, residental for inventory management mini games. Yeah. Yeah, 455 00:30:34.359 --> 00:30:37.160 it was like it was that it was the steam deck, like having the 456 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:41.279 fresh steam playing that in bed, like it was just it really hit for 457 00:30:41.319 --> 00:30:45.440 me. Thank you for I want everyone's hitting gyms. Yeah, the hitting 458 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:48.039 gym they want to go with. My game of the Year is just managing 459 00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:52.920 your inventory and resume before you did. You know there's a game entirely about 460 00:30:52.960 --> 00:31:00.240 that. Yeah. I do. I obsessively manage my inventory. Anytime I 461 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:06.039 accidentally hit the auto sort button, it ruins. Yeah. Everything. Who 462 00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:11.200 is auto sorting this? They are psychopaths auto sorted. I did it once. 463 00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:14.279 I'm like, what if I just hit it once and then I did 464 00:31:15.000 --> 00:31:18.640 ship and then I just started horrible. Oh no no, well I I 465 00:31:18.680 --> 00:31:19.960 respect it, but I can't do it. No, You're right, I'm 466 00:31:19.960 --> 00:31:25.720 a psychopath, writ the first psychopath. There's there's this really great uh indie 467 00:31:25.759 --> 00:31:33.400 game that came out around Halloween time called Kill the Princess and it was and 468 00:31:33.440 --> 00:31:37.160 it was and it was fun because it was like you you're kind of like 469 00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:38.680 told like, oh, okay, this is like what your objective is, 470 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.799 but there's a lot of decision making involved. I'm going to make a note 471 00:31:42.799 --> 00:31:51.119 of Yeah, it's really fun. It is a trip. Yeah. I 472 00:31:51.119 --> 00:31:56.400 played it at pats and and everyone just like walking by just started looking at 473 00:31:56.400 --> 00:32:00.359 it. Yeah, yeah, can I say one more please? El paso? 474 00:32:00.440 --> 00:32:09.680 Elsewhere is your ja? It is so later and say okay, yeah, 475 00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:12.960 well I would looked it up because that's how I pronounced that first. 476 00:32:13.039 --> 00:32:15.240 Yeah. I was like I watched an interview with him and he said to 477 00:32:15.279 --> 00:32:17.000 Lavier and he didn't prect them, like all right, there we go. 478 00:32:17.079 --> 00:32:23.279 We got it. Not more of times I said Gregovin's name wrong when I 479 00:32:23.319 --> 00:32:32.119 was like interviewing him around hating wasn't anything. Greg is the sweetest question why? 480 00:32:34.440 --> 00:32:37.400 And I was like, I was like, we got it. He 481 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:38.160 didn't correct me, and then I was like, we have to do a 482 00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:45.359 pick up for my managing game spots. Greg sounds great. He was at 483 00:32:45.359 --> 00:32:47.440 it in chiefs before. Yeah, yeah, of course, of course, 484 00:32:47.759 --> 00:32:54.160 yeah, a little statue of that, Tim, you have a degree in 485 00:32:54.279 --> 00:32:58.200 psychology. I want to know how often do you deploy that against me? 486 00:32:58.720 --> 00:33:01.480 A degree? I've got a degree in law study. I'm sorry, I've 487 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:05.960 got a degree in law and I have got a qualification in psychology. That's 488 00:33:06.319 --> 00:33:09.400 she's got the primary psychology. And this is why I always feel like you 489 00:33:09.440 --> 00:33:15.519 guys manipulated me. Do a very good job at it. That's what we 490 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.519 do. Serious. How does that like become useful for you? I feel 491 00:33:19.519 --> 00:33:22.759 like for me, like the legal staff, so side of it is useful 492 00:33:22.839 --> 00:33:24.839 in my day to day work because I have to read US Immigration, US 493 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:31.640 the immigration immigration my previous lawyers, I caught your mistakes. Don't do that 494 00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:37.319 again. But also like we read NDA's day to day and like I also 495 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:42.599 apply it amply in Phoenix, right, which is perfect simulation of how law 496 00:33:42.640 --> 00:33:45.240 works. Obviously, the psychology part of it is really interesting. I do 497 00:33:45.279 --> 00:33:49.240 think about it like psychology, like Lucy can attest to this, Like they 498 00:33:49.279 --> 00:33:52.720 teach you like theories and ideas and that kind of stuff more than they teach 499 00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:58.079 you like how to think about people like holistically, and there is there was 500 00:33:58.119 --> 00:34:00.599 a point where I was studying where I was like branching off. It felt 501 00:34:00.599 --> 00:34:02.119 a little more holistic and how to and that's where they kind of talk about 502 00:34:02.119 --> 00:34:07.039 like therapy and how the human brain works and how you can be manipulated or 503 00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:09.800 like you know, responses and that kind of stuff. That's the kind of 504 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:13.800 stuff that I really like, and I feel it comes more, it becomes 505 00:34:13.840 --> 00:34:16.159 more interesting when I'm playing a game and I'm like, oh, I get 506 00:34:16.199 --> 00:34:21.119 why this line was written this way, because it's like trying to appeal to 507 00:34:21.159 --> 00:34:24.559 this element of like my psychology or the game of psyche or personality psyche, 508 00:34:24.639 --> 00:34:30.440 but like Lucy can speak way better to the psychology part of it. Psychology 509 00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:32.320 for me is basically the fact that you cannot trust your memory at all. 510 00:34:32.599 --> 00:34:37.639 Your memory can be manipulated so easily. This is in my everyday life, 511 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:43.559 but genuinely, when I were not here, you're misremembering this right now. 512 00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:46.960 The biggest thing for me from my psychology degree, because I also didn't really 513 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:52.320 like doing it, was a big follow the money because every time you'd have 514 00:34:52.360 --> 00:34:55.920 to read a psychological study, it would always be who funny? Every single 515 00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:59.760 time? Every single time, and you would always have to bring that up, 516 00:35:00.119 --> 00:35:02.719 like, well, this one was funded by this university or this uh, 517 00:35:04.039 --> 00:35:09.239 this donor gave money towards with some sort of interesting like yeah, another 518 00:35:09.280 --> 00:35:13.000 company. And so every time I don't think when you're giving money to do 519 00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.840 something, you're ever affected by anything that doesn't sound right. Thing. Every 520 00:35:16.920 --> 00:35:22.280 time one of those bullshit video game violence studies come though, like I always 521 00:35:22.280 --> 00:35:23.800 look at where the money came from, but also the research methods because some 522 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:30.280 of them are bonkers because you can't replicate stuff properly. You can't real life 523 00:35:30.280 --> 00:35:32.400 and A controls it, and so I'm just like, that doesn't make any 524 00:35:32.400 --> 00:35:36.679 sense. A good intersection of the law and the psychology part of it that 525 00:35:36.920 --> 00:35:40.679 only really happened once in video games in a direct way was Elenois. I 526 00:35:40.719 --> 00:35:45.599 really wish, Yeah, I really wish like someone took another crack that, 527 00:35:45.639 --> 00:35:51.159 even rock Star, because like for us, like everyone was like, oh, 528 00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:53.880 you're reading body language and you're reading like you're thinking about like the prosceidual. 529 00:35:53.920 --> 00:35:58.840 I find that stuff very fast. Sometimes in Illinois, the problem was 530 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:04.320 the problem was went to exaggerated, like it was like I didn't do this 531 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:07.119 well. They they didn't make it work for people who don't did not study. 532 00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.559 Yeah. Yeah, I feel like there's a really interesting game to be 533 00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:14.239 made about like subtle, like the technology has advanced to where we can have 534 00:36:14.360 --> 00:36:19.039 like these really like nuanced facial expressions. Having another game that is like that 535 00:36:19.199 --> 00:36:22.119 good like in terms of like presentation and intricate in terms of like mechanics that 536 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:25.599 is about like reading body language and figure out psyche. Let me tell you 537 00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:31.599 about like the dragon's capata. Yeah, that's the kind of stuff like like 538 00:36:31.679 --> 00:36:36.239 a chance of scenario like for language. I want that for for like psychology 539 00:36:36.320 --> 00:36:37.440 and leading people, but I also wanted for like economics. One of my 540 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:43.000 favorite games is a Tingles rosy Rupee Land game that never came out here. 541 00:36:43.519 --> 00:36:45.880 It's fun spin off of It's weird spin off of Cell Day, and the 542 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:49.760 whole idea is you need to go up to characters and they have something you 543 00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:52.000 need to buy from them. They don't tell you how much it costs. 544 00:36:52.199 --> 00:36:53.000 You have to guess how much you need to spend on it. If you 545 00:36:53.039 --> 00:36:55.519 don't give them enough, they just take your money and you don't get to 546 00:36:55.760 --> 00:37:05.880 get the thing what you kind of it's like one of the you're the owner 547 00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:07.639 of a shop in and off PG. Yeah, and you like sell someone 548 00:37:08.599 --> 00:37:12.559 if you might be give definitely one like that. Yeah, there's but yeah, 549 00:37:12.559 --> 00:37:15.679 and I love that idea of like messing around with like the psychology of 550 00:37:15.719 --> 00:37:17.400 economics and things like that. That's uh. I had a lot of fun 551 00:37:17.440 --> 00:37:21.679 with Eco. Not the one everyone's thinking of. It's the multiplayer one that's 552 00:37:21.679 --> 00:37:27.159 like Minecraft, Like like I set up, I upset up my own shop 553 00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:30.280 and there my own company store, enforced all my employees who are other real 554 00:37:30.320 --> 00:37:32.760 players to shop my store, and then I caused an economic collapse in that 555 00:37:32.800 --> 00:37:37.280 game because I wanted to move to a different currency. It's like being able 556 00:37:37.320 --> 00:37:40.239 to manipulate stuff like that and think about like stuff like a psychology and economics 557 00:37:40.239 --> 00:37:44.760 in games because I think these are untapped like potential ideas that we're going to 558 00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:46.800 get a lot more of them, like when you're doing insider trading and animal 559 00:37:46.880 --> 00:37:51.760 crossing. Yes, yes, I love I love this shit. Lucy, 560 00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:54.159 I got I got a question for you. Tell me about your blonde era 561 00:37:57.000 --> 00:38:00.679 the blurb. Yeah, so so before I worked at GameSpot because I'll have 562 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:06.440 been in a game sport for ten years in July, which damn, I 563 00:38:06.519 --> 00:38:08.559 used to work for a TV company called Jinks with g not to be confused 564 00:38:08.559 --> 00:38:15.679 with the clothing gis. You'd be surprised off of me about that. And 565 00:38:15.840 --> 00:38:22.280 I used to host the flagship show called The I didn't name it, no 566 00:38:22.280 --> 00:38:25.039 responsibility. I had no input in the graphics of the show either, but 567 00:38:25.159 --> 00:38:29.119 for a while, because I would have I was in my early twenties at 568 00:38:29.119 --> 00:38:30.079 the time, I was like, I'm going to change my hair all the 569 00:38:30.079 --> 00:38:35.639 time. So I had pink, purple red for a very long time, 570 00:38:35.719 --> 00:38:40.280 red red or like human being red, all the above. Everything changed. 571 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:44.440 Yeah, I remember you talking about mast with red hair. I forgot that 572 00:38:44.559 --> 00:38:50.880 was Danny's video. Yeah. Yeah, being Depressed Masha is one of the 573 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:55.159 best of press games ever. Yeah, all timing else, I'm like, 574 00:38:55.199 --> 00:38:58.679 what, like, was that like you wanted to express yourself or did you 575 00:38:58.719 --> 00:39:00.679 feel a need to do that because you're going to be TV and you're a 576 00:39:00.719 --> 00:39:02.639 woman talking about games and you had to like stick out or something like that. 577 00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:07.360 You know, I don't know why I did it. I think it 578 00:39:07.400 --> 00:39:12.199 genuinely was just face because well, actually because I went to I went to 579 00:39:12.239 --> 00:39:16.159 a Tory school, and you weren't to have those Newcastle. I went to 580 00:39:16.159 --> 00:39:22.639 a private school, but it's just like this university. This was from age 581 00:39:22.840 --> 00:39:28.599 ten to eighteen. Hey, that sounds crazy. That sounds crazy that they 582 00:39:28.639 --> 00:39:32.199 have those. I'm sorry. It meant that I couldn't experiment with anything like 583 00:39:32.440 --> 00:39:43.280 your Your uniform was under scripted me all the time, take up and I 584 00:39:43.320 --> 00:39:49.599 actually I don't know what they are, but I mean I I genuinely had 585 00:39:49.639 --> 00:39:51.440 a great time about school. I loved it, but it meant that there 586 00:39:51.519 --> 00:39:58.400 was as a golf skater kids, I couldn't do ship at school. When 587 00:39:58.440 --> 00:40:00.199 I moved out and went to UNI, I was like, I don't think 588 00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:05.079 I want And what that was was ruin my hair, like because I also 589 00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:09.199 didn't have the money to do it properly and like get all the flexible side 590 00:40:09.639 --> 00:40:14.760 red hair. Lucy was the first time I met Lucy and it was the 591 00:40:14.800 --> 00:40:19.880 coldest I've ever seen anyone. Look was it blond hair? It was worse. 592 00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:24.400 It was silver, silver hair. Silver here for one day. Because 593 00:40:25.079 --> 00:40:28.119 so in the UK, I don't know if this happens in America A lot. 594 00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:36.079 You'll walk down the street and a hairdresser will come out and to a 595 00:40:36.119 --> 00:40:43.440 fight. Happened to me in the US. This happened to be in the 596 00:40:43.559 --> 00:40:46.519 UK, Thank you, I wish. Yeah. Well, they come out 597 00:40:46.519 --> 00:40:50.679 all the time and they're like, hey, we need to test dying. 598 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:52.480 We'll give you a free hair cut. That happened all the times I lived 599 00:40:52.480 --> 00:41:00.800 in hairdress and so this woman was like, okay, I'll give you a 600 00:41:00.800 --> 00:41:02.519 really good hair and die job. And I was like, well, okay, 601 00:41:02.559 --> 00:41:07.880 I actually have a very big professional hosting gig, which was the launch 602 00:41:07.880 --> 00:41:13.519 of the PlayStation four yeah, twenty thirteen, and I was like, you 603 00:41:13.559 --> 00:41:16.039 cannot mess my hair. Oh no, and she God love it. For 604 00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:22.000 that one night my hair was silver. It was gorgeous. Bread. However, 605 00:41:22.679 --> 00:41:24.800 after that because I didn't know how to take care of it, and 606 00:41:24.800 --> 00:41:30.239 she bleached it three times in one day. Yeah, Oh my god, 607 00:41:30.239 --> 00:41:36.960 I look like Priss from Blade Runner because it just went and it was miserable 608 00:41:37.039 --> 00:41:38.800 and it was the coldest. It was like a midnight launch as well. 609 00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.800 It was November, yeah, so it was so cold. I was out 610 00:41:42.800 --> 00:41:45.480 there covering it for a different outlet. You were covering it for Sonya, 611 00:41:45.559 --> 00:41:49.159 was it? Yeah? So, and I remember like walking around, I 612 00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:51.559 was like taking this game. No, no, I was doing it for 613 00:41:51.719 --> 00:41:55.360 CVG yeah, Computing Video Against which is now VGC. Shout out to Andy 614 00:41:55.400 --> 00:42:01.559 and the crew there. Way he is. So I was covering it, 615 00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:07.320 and my my attempt at covering it was I found a I found across the 616 00:42:07.400 --> 00:42:10.639 road from the venue was this framing store where you'd go and take like shit, 617 00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:14.079 you weren't framed. And so what they had is they had these like 618 00:42:14.239 --> 00:42:19.320 really nice frames as like their displays, but every single one was filled with 619 00:42:19.360 --> 00:42:22.239 like a Hollywood A list celebrity. So what I started doing was taking real 620 00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:28.280 close up pictures of them and saying, oh my god, ex celebrity is 621 00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:32.039 at the PlayStation four lords and that was our entire twittery. Meanwhile, this 622 00:42:32.239 --> 00:42:36.639 he is like doing like normal good interviews, And at one point I saw 623 00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:39.719 and she was like hi, like shaking, and I was like we met 624 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:43.880 briefly at the Assassin's Creed. Yeah yeah, And I was like, are 625 00:42:43.880 --> 00:42:49.440 you're right? It's just like cool as cree black, like yeah yeah. 626 00:42:49.440 --> 00:42:51.800 And then I just went back to like taking pictures of celebrities and being like, 627 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:54.599 oh my god, it's here's Rond's there and people were like, oh 628 00:42:54.599 --> 00:43:00.800 ship these Rusiden's a gamer. I was like yeah, yes, yeah, 629 00:43:00.079 --> 00:43:05.519 acted surprise that a hairdresser came out at you and was like, Hey, 630 00:43:05.599 --> 00:43:07.960 I'm gonna get a haircut. But that happened to me on the airport on 631 00:43:07.000 --> 00:43:10.280 the way here, which is why I got an airport haircut. Wow, 632 00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:15.079 it looks good. I thought they did a pretty good What happened? I 633 00:43:15.159 --> 00:43:16.960 just I was walking past the hair cutting place and the guy sitting there talking 634 00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:20.400 on his phone. He's like, you're next to me like that, and 635 00:43:20.480 --> 00:43:23.039 I walk past, I to like fifty more feet. I'm like, he's 636 00:43:23.119 --> 00:43:24.920 right, I am next, and I went back in. I'm like, 637 00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:28.800 you fix up the side. That is exactly what happened to eat you. 638 00:43:29.320 --> 00:43:37.719 Yeah, but I'll take the money forever. Yeah, yeah, let's go. 639 00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:39.840 Do you usually just go with it and do stuff like that. That's 640 00:43:39.840 --> 00:43:44.480 like getting lobster at a diner. Yeah, yeah, airport haircut. Usually 641 00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:45.440 go with that, Yeah, lobster me had a dime. Yeah, I 642 00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:49.199 would eat lobster a dinner. I get a sushi at a gas station. 643 00:43:49.320 --> 00:43:53.440 So White Castle, you ever have a clamstrips at White Coupe? Would? 644 00:43:53.559 --> 00:43:57.039 Yeah? Yeah, they're not every They're not in every white Castle, but 645 00:43:57.400 --> 00:44:00.960 a class White Castle. Do you think you go he said you're next, 646 00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:04.079 because he looked at you and when that guy needs a haircut, or do 647 00:44:04.119 --> 00:44:07.159 you think he was like, oh, that's the person who was in here 648 00:44:07.239 --> 00:44:10.440 earlier and saw in my eyes that I glanced over. It's like I knew 649 00:44:10.440 --> 00:44:15.760 in my soul I needed a haircut and I could sense it because he did 650 00:44:15.760 --> 00:44:19.079 it to other people, created hair That was his gambit. He would just 651 00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:22.920 say to everyone, your next, ye speaking of not everyone, I don't 652 00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:29.679 like that in an airport though they were playing Don't See the Reaper like that 653 00:44:29.800 --> 00:44:32.519 is a song. Don't play that at airport. Don't play that in airport. 654 00:44:34.280 --> 00:44:38.199 Speaking of gambits, my Gem of the Shadow gambit and incredible stuff that 655 00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:42.519 is on my list to play next. Sang absolute banger. Sadly the studio 656 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:46.480 yet down. They shut down and then they released some DLC. They were 657 00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:50.199 like, bye, guys, we worked on there and it was like one 658 00:44:50.199 --> 00:44:52.039 more like we're burnt down, but you sense that it's like hard to keep 659 00:44:52.039 --> 00:44:55.599 it. That's what comes from it's hot. But that game is phenomenal. 660 00:44:55.639 --> 00:45:00.360 It's so good. Like to give a quick shout out to a base for 661 00:45:00.360 --> 00:45:02.679 the unbound shouts. It's all my Southeast Asians after you know what I'm saying. 662 00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:06.719 Hey, we out here at the Game Awards. We got three future 663 00:45:06.719 --> 00:45:12.119 class people from Southeast Asia. Gang. I believe that the seasons are getting 664 00:45:12.159 --> 00:45:15.239 it is what I've been told. Thanks everybody for hanging out with this first 665 00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:19.079 segment. We're gonna be right back after about fifteen minutes or so. I'm 666 00:45:19.079 --> 00:45:29.599 gonna go Clam Sam slam some White Castle are something else. I can't do 667 00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:42.280 that. Clam slam clams. That's crazy. Say we do here. We're 668 00:45:42.639 --> 00:45:55.320 okay, Clam Slama. Welcome back Giant Bomb at Night Live for our Game 669 00:45:55.360 --> 00:46:00.239 of the Year spectacular lot going on this week. Glad you're spending tonight with 670 00:46:00.320 --> 00:46:01.760 us looking at the wrong camera again. You don't have to give me that 671 00:46:01.800 --> 00:46:08.239 look. I know where's the tali light. Here's my ope, it's not 672 00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:19.800 that whippe. All right, everything make it gun. Yeah, Welcome back 673 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:22.199 everybody. I'm Jeff Grub, brought to you by these protes right behind me 674 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:27.199 like a dragon, infinite wealth. Take a shout out to everybody I've been 675 00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:29.960 watching so far. We're gonna have another great panel. Got a lot of 676 00:46:29.960 --> 00:46:32.639 friends joining me, including Listenerconte. How are you doing I'm so good. 677 00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:36.079 Should I do this shot right now? Yes? Okay? Ready? Who 678 00:46:36.400 --> 00:46:42.039 is? Yeah? Thanks for joining us, Jim Glennon, I've just met 679 00:46:42.039 --> 00:46:45.239 you five seconds ago. I'm thanks for having me. I'm glad you're here. 680 00:46:45.280 --> 00:46:47.639 Absolutely, Brittany Johnson, I've seen you sit to San Diego. I 681 00:46:47.719 --> 00:46:52.119 know dream that was a good time. Absolutely, it was like we were 682 00:46:52.159 --> 00:46:54.559 like off in our own little corner making stuff happen. Yeah. Absolutely. 683 00:46:54.559 --> 00:46:58.000 Steve Sailor's back, Jeff, good to see you. Good to see you 684 00:46:58.000 --> 00:47:01.639 too, Stay goold to see anything? Really, but I'm starting early, 685 00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.079 folcus. Let's go. We got show kittles from Scotty Dance. How you 686 00:47:07.079 --> 00:47:09.480 doing? But hey, I'm good. I don't know where to look either, 687 00:47:09.480 --> 00:47:12.880 do I look at you? I don't worry about that. There's no 688 00:47:12.920 --> 00:47:15.280 cameras, no one's there's nothing. Yes, this is just for me. 689 00:47:15.400 --> 00:47:17.639 This is I think my dad is watching this. Dad, my dad. 690 00:47:19.079 --> 00:47:22.559 I'm gonna make a correction here a second. And then Drake, what are 691 00:47:22.599 --> 00:47:24.280 you doing here? There are friends? And then I'm here, Yes, 692 00:47:25.400 --> 00:47:31.599 early night. It's six o'clock. It's m where I'm from, so it's 693 00:47:32.920 --> 00:47:37.960 it's only six o'clock. It's nice for people with kids exactly. Speaking of 694 00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:43.119 kids, a correction, Addie, I don't eat lobster that her favorite animal 695 00:47:43.239 --> 00:47:45.320 is lobster. I said I would eat a lobster. I absolutely would not. 696 00:47:45.559 --> 00:47:51.079 Your kid watch this contact she's watching it. Yeah, well, just 697 00:47:51.079 --> 00:47:57.719 going to bed. Yeah, I want to eat the lobsters, I promise. 698 00:47:57.840 --> 00:48:01.360 All right, let's move on. Yeah, so what's let's start with 699 00:48:01.440 --> 00:48:04.679 you? Oh yeah, yeah. How are you doing? How you feel 700 00:48:04.679 --> 00:48:08.000 about video games? I mean, they're gaming, you know, the games 701 00:48:08.000 --> 00:48:12.000 are gaming. We were saying before we came out here, like we really 702 00:48:12.039 --> 00:48:15.239 don't know what to expect from whatever a Kili's gonna pull out this year, 703 00:48:15.280 --> 00:48:20.000 you know, like people are throwing everything out there. Well, I'm seeing 704 00:48:20.039 --> 00:48:24.880 comments on things that are like new Gears, like just totally off the wall 705 00:48:25.000 --> 00:48:27.920 stuff, you know what I mean, And I don't. I don't really 706 00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:30.280 know what to expect. And I've also never been to the Game Awards, 707 00:48:30.280 --> 00:48:32.519 So you're going, I'm going it's fine. Yeah, I'm going. It's 708 00:48:32.519 --> 00:48:35.480 a good time. I went to the first one in Las Vegas. Yeah, 709 00:48:35.480 --> 00:48:38.320 I'm very excited to go and judge everyone. Yeah, I'm gonna be 710 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:40.960 happier just sitting here watching it at home tomorrow, but we go at least 711 00:48:40.960 --> 00:48:44.159 once. Yeah, No, I need to go once and say I did 712 00:48:44.199 --> 00:48:45.320 so I'm excited. I'm very excited. Can we do the pro tip? 713 00:48:45.320 --> 00:48:49.400 Though? It's on East Coast time so it starts a four thirty here, 714 00:48:49.719 --> 00:48:52.960 so eat something before you go, because they serve food and drinks but you 715 00:48:52.039 --> 00:48:55.079 can't take them to your seat. Yeah. And I was like a prison 716 00:48:55.119 --> 00:48:59.480 experiment where they make you buy a thirty dollars package whizzlers and they're like eat 717 00:48:59.480 --> 00:49:05.760 it all at one the walk you died, came out there, you stay 718 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:13.840 out there, close down the bar like halfway through. Yeah, I dare 719 00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:17.079 try to be on edibles at the gameboy. Yeah, okay, yeah, 720 00:49:17.440 --> 00:49:22.440 I don't dare that. Yeah, the hold gods the bass guard performance will 721 00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:29.000 be screaming, I'm gonna ahead of you and pop up the jump scairs now 722 00:49:31.000 --> 00:49:36.880 please don't. I gotta get my dosages. Listen. I'm glad that you're 723 00:49:36.880 --> 00:49:39.119 here because I was like looking in everybody make sure I had like something to 724 00:49:39.159 --> 00:49:43.239 say. And I noticed in one of your profiles you said you play inverted 725 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:45.280 and you can explain why it's the correct way to play. Don't give me 726 00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:50.440 the okay, okay, okay, judgment the correct I cannot believe you came 727 00:49:50.440 --> 00:49:53.800 from me so aggressive. I'm inverted as well. You are allies, I 728 00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:58.880 you know, bread and butter. For me was always shooters, first person 729 00:49:58.880 --> 00:50:02.119 shooters, and it always made sense to me if I was embodying the body 730 00:50:02.159 --> 00:50:07.840 that I was playing and I'm looking up that I would pull back just like 731 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.719 my head would move. And I've got pushed forward just like my head would 732 00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:15.440 move. And it's then left and right, the inverted left and right. 733 00:50:15.599 --> 00:50:19.480 I know, but I give some people bite, but at this point in 734 00:50:19.519 --> 00:50:21.599 my life, I can't do that anymore. But because I think it's on 735 00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:22.960 the nose right, left and right. Yeah, for me, it's just 736 00:50:23.079 --> 00:50:25.920 the joystick. The left joystick is the top of my head. Yeah. 737 00:50:27.599 --> 00:50:31.239 We settled this, and no one can ever to this. Inverted controls is 738 00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:36.679 also an accessibility option. So I'm just going to say, if you think 739 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:45.559 otherwise, you're ablest, and I'll thank you. Steve to Demos and they 740 00:50:45.599 --> 00:50:49.119 don't have the inverted thing. I'm like, you guys know I can't play 741 00:50:49.119 --> 00:50:51.440 your game now. Like I'm just going to be like, and you're gonna 742 00:50:51.440 --> 00:50:52.400 be like and we have footage capture for you, and like it's going to 743 00:50:52.440 --> 00:50:58.360 be me staring at the floor. I can't figure it out being so bad. 744 00:50:58.400 --> 00:51:00.719 And when I swap with my partner, he has the like swapped back 745 00:51:00.760 --> 00:51:02.679 to regular and he's like like fuck, and like, yeah, I don't 746 00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:05.280 know. It just makes sense to me. It always does. I mean, 747 00:51:05.599 --> 00:51:07.719 if I need someone to blame at this point, I blamed me Amoto 748 00:51:07.760 --> 00:51:10.719 because all those early three D Mario games were inverted. Yes, especially Sunshine 749 00:51:10.800 --> 00:51:13.880 where it's like, oh no, we're gonna invert everything. You're basical gonna 750 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:15.800 be walking back, where it's like, yeah, we don't care. So 751 00:51:15.079 --> 00:51:19.280 yeah, he made me the freak I am today, and so blame him 752 00:51:20.079 --> 00:51:23.119 godlike double O seven, yeah, oh my, and like that's where that 753 00:51:23.239 --> 00:51:28.039 was. Yeah, that's where the violence came out in me. Really became 754 00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.840 angry. Angry gamer moments started then and have continued ever since. But a 755 00:51:30.880 --> 00:51:36.000 flight sim with a joystick is naturally inverted, So do you revert the invert? 756 00:51:36.920 --> 00:51:39.400 You know that recently some games have started doing not inverted as the fault 757 00:51:39.440 --> 00:51:43.199 for flight Wait. In the last couple of years, there's been several games 758 00:51:43.239 --> 00:51:45.360 that have done that. I'm like deeply upset by that because they're like, 759 00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:50.400 because there are children who are like no, I want to go up when 760 00:51:50.400 --> 00:51:59.320 I press up with a with a hold like actually, I mean yeah, 761 00:52:00.039 --> 00:52:10.760 yeah, an emergency. The only one who put up Oh gosh, rights, 762 00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:14.960 how things of Katako they're great. I mean, gents, here about 763 00:52:15.039 --> 00:52:20.639 getting that. You have to say it's great, it's great, fantastic. 764 00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.239 It is editor editor in chief. Yeah, after many years at Inverse, 765 00:52:25.079 --> 00:52:28.880 I became aware of you and then and then took over Kataku and now you're 766 00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:30.840 running it with an iron fist, right, I would like to think of 767 00:52:30.840 --> 00:52:34.719 it as like an iron fist with a velvet gloves. Sure. Yeah, 768 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:42.920 another style choice will be critiqued on tomorrow night, and with the master. 769 00:52:44.119 --> 00:52:47.639 I'm afraid of being yelled at about what I would never out sternly worded, 770 00:52:49.199 --> 00:52:52.199 just say stern. But I just said that Phil Spencer dresses like my dad 771 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:59.199 and he goes to get bagels. You're right, That's all I said, 772 00:52:59.280 --> 00:53:01.880 And I know that he can. We've talked about this a bit, but 773 00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:07.199 I think the new blazer and like logo T shirt thing is like a supple 774 00:53:07.280 --> 00:53:14.800 leather jacket. To Howard, where are leather jackets right now. Like I 775 00:53:14.840 --> 00:53:16.800 love a leather jack jacket. Yeah, I love a leather jacket. I 776 00:53:16.840 --> 00:53:21.559 like them big and long. I see a leather jacket, I'm like, 777 00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:24.679 I can't get here. My laughter is not that I can pull it off 778 00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:30.119 my or that you could pull My laughter was our leather jackets. Cool. 779 00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:37.480 That's what this show is, Drake. You found out that's going to be 780 00:53:37.480 --> 00:53:43.320 the default this year. A lot of supple leather jackets person at Summer game 781 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:45.599 Fest, and I was like, that looks like a really well made leather 782 00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:50.719 jacket. Does he have multiple versions of that brown jacket? One hundred percent 783 00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:59.119 breaks that in for him. It looks so nice and supple. Okay, 784 00:54:00.960 --> 00:54:04.559 on the ground, the CEO of video always has a different leather jacket every 785 00:54:04.559 --> 00:54:06.800 times to do gpu. It's a new leather jacket. I'm like that. 786 00:54:06.960 --> 00:54:08.519 It's just got a whole room full of them. I'm sure. Yeah, 787 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:12.360 yeah. I mean I think anyone can wear whatever they want, just have 788 00:54:12.440 --> 00:54:15.880 some personality that's fun. I'm gonna wear a blazer, but I'm gonna wear 789 00:54:15.920 --> 00:54:19.000 a sweater underneath. That's what I'm gonna do. Yeah, nothing, that's 790 00:54:19.119 --> 00:54:25.039 that's way better. You and what you bring to the fashion table, because 791 00:54:25.039 --> 00:54:29.000 it's you, do you know what I mean? That's like, well everyone 792 00:54:29.000 --> 00:54:30.280 else just being like T shirt and blazer, that's what you should that's not 793 00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:32.880 you. That can't just be you. You have to have I really think 794 00:54:32.920 --> 00:54:37.280 this every day, like the true like my privileges and just like white male 795 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:38.920 privilege, I get to just be Jeff Grubb and no one ever questions it. 796 00:54:38.920 --> 00:54:42.360 It's like no, like a white guy could do something else. It 797 00:54:42.400 --> 00:54:45.320 never reflects on me. Ever. I'm just Jeff. Yeah, oh my 798 00:54:45.360 --> 00:54:53.400 god, one one and on. Just out live them all. That's job. 799 00:54:53.679 --> 00:54:59.480 Yeah, that's Jeff. Yeah. To see what Jeff is wearing, 800 00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:02.920 Yeah, me too. It's gonna sneakers. I just want his sneakers to 801 00:55:04.000 --> 00:55:07.000 actually match his outfit. Do you see his live stream today? He was 802 00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:10.360 wearing now a button up shirt and he looked like he was about to go 803 00:55:10.400 --> 00:55:15.480 to like get arrained for like a misdemeanor. He's a fashion dude. Wear's 804 00:55:15.480 --> 00:55:19.039 good sneakers, but often as sneakers, I don't think match that clock that 805 00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:22.519 I knew the designer of his blazer during the Summer Games fust and he didn't 806 00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:27.599 wear the matching pan I don't really understand he's got to be styling him. 807 00:55:27.960 --> 00:55:31.519 Shock literally call me like I've offered it. I do it for free. 808 00:55:31.559 --> 00:55:35.719 I've done it. I get that. Call me, call me perfect, 809 00:55:36.639 --> 00:55:44.960 Jim. What's the idea with kataky what happens next? Sam? You press 810 00:55:45.079 --> 00:55:52.679 up and then you just steer it straight. But like, I think it's 811 00:55:52.679 --> 00:55:54.519 exciting that you, like you come in new blood and what are there's some 812 00:55:54.599 --> 00:55:59.079 new ideas or is it just like you have a good idea of what Katato 813 00:55:59.119 --> 00:56:01.639 already is and you're happy to express that. Yeah, I mean I heard 814 00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:06.400 Kataku for twenty years, you know, like I want us to go back 815 00:56:06.440 --> 00:56:08.280 to kind of like the glory days, the heyday, you know, like 816 00:56:08.320 --> 00:56:13.280 I want us to still be like smart and sharp and authoritative, but most 817 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:15.440 of all authentic. I think that's why people come to kataky. It was 818 00:56:15.519 --> 00:56:22.760 just that sense of like you are getting some real unvarnished, unvarnished something. 819 00:56:22.760 --> 00:56:25.800 So yeah, you know, I'll just keep doing what we do. Well. 820 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:30.880 Yeah, is it nice to be like in a place where it's not 821 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:35.400 about access journalism, it's about being yourselves and like just Kotaku can make a 822 00:56:35.440 --> 00:56:37.800 statement and it's it's Kotaku, so it's going to matter. Yeah, yeah, 823 00:56:37.920 --> 00:56:42.360 I mean that is that is very different than what I'm used to. 824 00:56:42.360 --> 00:56:45.920 To be honest, it was always like it inverse. You know, I'm 825 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:46.840 really proud of the work we did there, but we were, you know, 826 00:56:46.920 --> 00:56:51.440 less well known, whereas you know, Katoking, you can you can 827 00:56:51.480 --> 00:56:54.119 put anything on the front page. Someone's going to read it. Or we 828 00:56:54.239 --> 00:57:00.199 had we had a gift of the jiggle physics and Balderskate. But what it 829 00:57:00.239 --> 00:57:07.480 was good, it was cut above the dingle. But the imply you know 830 00:57:07.000 --> 00:57:08.920 what it was. It was they weren't implying in the text headline. I 831 00:57:08.920 --> 00:57:17.000 read the as we get blocked in our in our CMS if we try and 832 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:22.000 post a curse words, so we have to post it. Who decides the 833 00:57:22.039 --> 00:57:30.039 list of curse words? Not me? Who is you? Span Feller would 834 00:57:30.039 --> 00:57:37.159 be a curse apologize Brittany? How are you doing? We? Like I 835 00:57:37.159 --> 00:57:38.639 said, we found that out San Diego. You did an excellent job. 836 00:57:38.719 --> 00:57:44.880 I'm seeing way better job than I'm doing right now. You appreciate that you 837 00:57:44.880 --> 00:57:46.760 you still have like a big presence in esports. How are you feeling about 838 00:57:46.800 --> 00:57:51.039 that whole scene right now? Sports is in a rough place. It's been 839 00:57:51.079 --> 00:57:53.599 an interesting year, but I think there's an ebb and flow to everything. 840 00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:58.360 So you know, we're this week we get to celebrate gaming and not Jesse 841 00:57:58.519 --> 00:58:01.119 sports, So it's a nice little break away from everything. Yeah, overall, 842 00:58:01.119 --> 00:58:04.960 like like gaming feels like it's in a strong place in many ways, 843 00:58:05.000 --> 00:58:07.360 it feels like it's in a precarious place in a lot of others. Yes, 844 00:58:07.559 --> 00:58:09.480 did you feel that, Like when you look at you're assle a voice 845 00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:13.679 actor, do you feel like, oh, like roles are still out there 846 00:58:13.719 --> 00:58:15.679 right easy to come by? And then does that translate to like esports when 847 00:58:15.679 --> 00:58:19.320 you're like, hey, I'm also looking for gigs in esports, I'm auditioning 848 00:58:19.320 --> 00:58:21.719 more than I ever have for a video game. Actually that has not gone 849 00:58:21.840 --> 00:58:24.800 anywhere. I would say it's a little different. You know, there's not 850 00:58:24.840 --> 00:58:29.280 as many events happening in esports, so whenever we're looking for talent or whenever 851 00:58:29.840 --> 00:58:31.599 you know, there's any sort of tournaments or productions, they kind of been 852 00:58:31.639 --> 00:58:36.760 downscaled. But no matter what, the content is still needed and still out 853 00:58:36.800 --> 00:58:38.880 there. The demand is still there, so they're still happening, but it 854 00:58:38.960 --> 00:58:43.199 just won't you know, it's holidays so it probably won't happen until what is 855 00:58:43.239 --> 00:58:45.920 great. Yeah, but you feel like like it's like ready to reload esports 856 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:49.920 in a way. Yes, I think everyone is needing like just like a 857 00:58:50.000 --> 00:58:52.760 nice reset. Yeah yeah I could. I could see that. Steve, 858 00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:57.320 how are you deserted? I'm no good? Yeah, yeah, here, 859 00:58:57.320 --> 00:58:59.559 glad to be here. Yeah, I keep telling I I was looking at 860 00:58:59.599 --> 00:59:02.559 you can tell about radio free Zion. Oh god, you're going that far 861 00:59:02.599 --> 00:59:08.280 back? Yeah, okay, So if anyone remembers the game The Matrix Online, 862 00:59:08.480 --> 00:59:13.000 we all do. I was I'm a John Drake's The Matrix Online. 863 00:59:13.599 --> 00:59:16.000 Oh yeah, yeah, No, we don't know. Oh okay, I'm 864 00:59:16.360 --> 00:59:20.599 I'm a big Matrix fan, like I've always been. Making is my favorite 865 00:59:20.599 --> 00:59:24.679 movie. And I will say that the trilogy is good if you watch it 866 00:59:24.719 --> 00:59:29.360 as a whole individually, I can understand why where people have issues with it. 867 00:59:29.519 --> 00:59:30.280 But I was a big Matrix fan, so I was, like I 868 00:59:30.320 --> 00:59:35.800 found out on The Matrix Online. I jumped in and during the beta there 869 00:59:35.920 --> 00:59:40.639 was a bunch of people in the community that created its own community run radio 870 00:59:40.679 --> 00:59:43.480 station. This is back in like two thousand and five or so. This 871 00:59:43.519 --> 00:59:45.920 is like win amp day. Yeah, it's like you are. And so 872 00:59:46.199 --> 00:59:51.960 they created this station called Radio free Zion. And at the time, I 873 00:59:52.039 --> 00:59:54.719 wasn't even really like interested in broadcasting anything like that at all, but I 874 00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:58.000 was like I was. I saw it and I was like, oh, 875 00:59:58.079 --> 01:00:01.039 I just need to audition to be a DJ, and I did and I 876 01:00:01.079 --> 01:00:05.599 got in. My DJ name was DJ Snowball. I had that nickname sent. 877 01:00:05.679 --> 01:00:15.400 I was like four years old and I was like the literally the first 878 01:00:15.480 --> 01:00:16.760 night I streamed was like this kind of like big party that was across a 879 01:00:16.800 --> 01:00:21.960 whole bunch of different servers. I was streaming for five thousand people and in 880 01:00:22.000 --> 01:00:27.039 two thousand and five, that's a lot of people. And it's yeah, 881 01:00:27.199 --> 01:00:31.559 it solidified, like I loved doing it so much that and actually going into 882 01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:35.519 the end of the beta, they actually created this sort of like apocalypse event 883 01:00:35.519 --> 01:00:38.320 when they were developers were shutting off the servers for when the game launched, 884 01:00:38.519 --> 01:00:43.119 and they created this sort of like the whole world was kind of like falling 885 01:00:43.119 --> 01:00:45.920 apart. Everyone was being crumpled up in like the pieces of paper. It 886 01:00:46.039 --> 01:00:51.000 was like eyeballs in the sky. That was like like the moon turn red 887 01:00:51.360 --> 01:00:53.440 and ray freeze On basically turned it into like a War of the World's type 888 01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:58.599 scenario, and we were jumping from different people in different servers just basically like 889 01:00:58.840 --> 01:01:04.000 recounting what was happening. And we actually got like a bunch of swag from 890 01:01:04.039 --> 01:01:07.559 the studio and a personalized letter basis saying like thanks for making the end of 891 01:01:07.760 --> 01:01:10.840 like then a beta event like way better than we ever thought. And yeah, 892 01:01:10.920 --> 01:01:15.039 it was what got me into literally what I'm doing today. So Patris 893 01:01:15.119 --> 01:01:20.840 Online had like like a pretty climactic inning, right, like essentially the ending 894 01:01:20.960 --> 01:01:23.159 of the of the game was the ending of the beta. They basically kind 895 01:01:23.159 --> 01:01:25.079 of like folded it in together, but it was the whole thing. Was 896 01:01:25.119 --> 01:01:30.440 I loved about it was because it was supposedly canon to the movies, so 897 01:01:30.480 --> 01:01:32.719 the Wachowski's were writing it, and there was a lot of stuff that was 898 01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:37.000 happening, Like the very beginning was like Morpheus turned into basically a terrorist because 899 01:01:37.079 --> 01:01:42.119 the machines were turning Neo's body again, Like it was just like it was 900 01:01:42.159 --> 01:01:45.119 a whole and then you actually were able to it was cool. So I 901 01:01:45.119 --> 01:01:47.199 wish actually games would do this now, especially like in the like my favorite 902 01:01:47.199 --> 01:01:51.639 game, which is Destiny. Well maybe not so much anymore. But so 903 01:01:51.920 --> 01:01:55.519 they would actually have people on the development team come in and play the characters 904 01:01:55.519 --> 01:02:00.079 from the movie, so you could actually be able to chat with Morpheus and 905 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:02.239 they would respond back because it's a human person running it. So we he 906 01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:07.400 was like I got to be able to chat with Morpheus and Trinity and Niobi 907 01:02:07.760 --> 01:02:09.000 and it was like really cool just to to be able to kind of have 908 01:02:09.039 --> 01:02:14.760 fun with it. So yeah, it was great. Hey, don't get 909 01:02:14.760 --> 01:02:16.000 at it, and he's trying to fix the air conditioner. That more than 910 01:02:16.000 --> 01:02:24.239 anything else, God of mind got him. So you get the podcast, 911 01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:27.119 you get the bug, right, you want to like do more hosting. 912 01:02:27.159 --> 01:02:30.639 You wanted to like, like how did that turn into like your career and 913 01:02:30.679 --> 01:02:32.360 anything. So it actually turned into a radio career. I went into school 914 01:02:32.400 --> 01:02:37.000 for radio and I was in the radio voice today. Yeah, I wasn't 915 01:02:37.000 --> 01:02:39.280 ready for like twelve years, working mostly behind the scenes, like doing a 916 01:02:39.280 --> 01:02:43.199 lot of digital stuff, and then I was doing sort of YouTube stuff on 917 01:02:43.239 --> 01:02:46.920 the side from like twenty fifteen and then basically started going into more accessibility stuff. 918 01:02:47.079 --> 01:02:51.400 I got laid off from the from the radio station in twenty nineteen, 919 01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:54.079 so just before when everyone got to work from home I started off early the 920 01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:57.159 year before and I was like, you know what, I'm going to give 921 01:02:57.159 --> 01:03:00.039 this video game stuff a shot. So you know, I'm basically got into 922 01:03:00.159 --> 01:03:06.800 my late thirties. I'm actually turning forty next week, so this is great. 923 01:03:07.039 --> 01:03:13.639 HBD. Sean, how are things over at Skydance Interactive skuy Dance Interact. 924 01:03:13.880 --> 01:03:17.000 You're creative director. I am the VP of creative What does that mean? 925 01:03:17.079 --> 01:03:22.599 It's very special? Yeah, well, I'm a very special no. 926 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:27.119 I I oversee both of our internal studio teams. So I've got art, 927 01:03:27.159 --> 01:03:35.679 animation, audio design, and narrative and we're making some sweet VR games among 928 01:03:35.719 --> 01:03:38.239 other things. Yeah, I'm like so hot and cold on VR right now, 929 01:03:38.559 --> 01:03:42.199 like a hot face because IVE got the Quest three. I love it. 930 01:03:42.199 --> 01:03:44.360 It's it's hot, it's really good. It's really good. It's like 931 01:03:44.400 --> 01:03:45.840 really well done. You don't have to give me looks because I'm hot for 932 01:03:45.920 --> 01:03:58.320 VR. Hot. Yeah, it's hot hot, Yeah, exactly like red 933 01:03:58.360 --> 01:04:01.679 Eyes and having worked out in MVR a lot over the years, you can 934 01:04:01.719 --> 01:04:04.559 get pretty hot. Yeah yeah, yeah, go I'm hot from VR. 935 01:04:04.719 --> 01:04:10.920 Yeah yeah. Oh yeah. But what's what's it like on the ground making 936 01:04:11.000 --> 01:04:13.719 your games right now? Because I feel like probably like maybe a year ago, 937 01:04:13.880 --> 01:04:16.199 like this seems like a tough space. It's tough. But is it 938 01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:19.079 feel more promising today or is it still like you're gritting it out. Oh. 939 01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:23.400 I to me, it's it's like we haven't even seen the peak of 940 01:04:23.440 --> 01:04:26.000 it. Yeah, I think it's I do think it's a little bit hills 941 01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:30.239 and valleys as we go between hardware releases, and there are certain gaps I 942 01:04:30.280 --> 01:04:34.199 think between like major game releases, like we saw over fifty titles released in 943 01:04:34.239 --> 01:04:39.800 the last month and a half alone along with Quest three, So you get 944 01:04:39.800 --> 01:04:42.159 these moments where it's like, hey, there's not a lot of games coming 945 01:04:42.159 --> 01:04:44.440 out, and then it's like, please stop the games from coming out, 946 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:47.000 and there's too many. I can't play them. But I mean we've got 947 01:04:47.639 --> 01:04:54.360 Saints and Centers like being upgrading and enhanced for the Quest three that's coming January 948 01:04:54.440 --> 01:04:58.280 sixteenth, and like, I think you're going to see a lot of Quest 949 01:04:58.280 --> 01:05:02.280 three enhancements and new games coming for a long time to come now. A 950 01:05:02.280 --> 01:05:06.159 little bit like like tablets where like kids get them for Christmas and then they're 951 01:05:06.199 --> 01:05:10.280 like ready to do games like the next month or so Christmas day, we 952 01:05:10.840 --> 01:05:15.360 see more active users on Christmas in the day after like than any other day 953 01:05:15.360 --> 01:05:17.920 of the year. It's it's massive and the audience keeps growing, right, 954 01:05:17.960 --> 01:05:21.840 there's a really the games that come out and hit, like Walking to the 955 01:05:21.840 --> 01:05:27.639 Saints and Centers did hit for a long time because there's always new people coming 956 01:05:27.639 --> 01:05:30.599 in that haven't played VR. They're looking for, Hey, what games are 957 01:05:30.599 --> 01:05:34.159 good and they hear like, oh, Saints and Sinners beat Saber, like 958 01:05:34.239 --> 01:05:40.320 these are the things that we want to check out the year conditions all stop 959 01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:54.280 sweating, they're playing get the most beautible sentence in the English Absolutely. How 960 01:05:54.280 --> 01:05:57.400 do you think about or how do you feel about Sony's a PSVR in that 961 01:05:57.519 --> 01:06:00.679 initiative or do you think I know about it? Don't about? Yeah? 962 01:06:02.079 --> 01:06:05.440 No, I love the PSBR two. Yeah. I think PSVR two is 963 01:06:05.599 --> 01:06:11.599 the most premium VR experience that you can get in terms of like you want 964 01:06:11.599 --> 01:06:15.840 the highest end. It's got eye tracking with fhoviated rendering, which sounds like 965 01:06:15.840 --> 01:06:17.960 a bunch of geeks speak it's amazing, but it turns into yeah, what 966 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:20.840 you're looking at gets rendered at a higher fidelity, and that means that you 967 01:06:20.880 --> 01:06:28.199 get like super smooth but super beautiful graphics. The Resident Evil four VR upgrade 968 01:06:28.320 --> 01:06:31.719 is coming out this week. This week, I think I'm working this week 969 01:06:31.800 --> 01:06:39.000 or next week. PSBR two it's it's an incredible piece of hardware. There's 970 01:06:39.039 --> 01:06:41.719 things that you can do on PSVR two that you can't do on any other 971 01:06:41.760 --> 01:06:44.599 hardware. But then it's also you know, Quest three, you can go 972 01:06:44.679 --> 01:06:47.800 untethered, and it's a much cheaper entry level for someone who doesn't have a 973 01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:53.039 PS five already to come in and play games. That's what it's where the 974 01:06:53.119 --> 01:06:56.719 Quest three really gums with the Steam streaming and the wireless with that and yeah, 975 01:06:56.800 --> 01:07:00.559 connecting over like six giga hurts Wi Fi. That's huge. Worked, 976 01:07:00.679 --> 01:07:02.480 that's huge. By the way, I mean to think that we've come to 977 01:07:02.519 --> 01:07:06.360 a point where VR as an ecosystem, it was such a walled garden, 978 01:07:06.400 --> 01:07:10.960 and it still is in a lot of ways between platforms. But to have 979 01:07:11.400 --> 01:07:17.280 Steam VR native linked on the Quest, that's that's a seven years ago that 980 01:07:17.320 --> 01:07:21.559 was impossible to imagine. How do you feel about like when you do have 981 01:07:21.599 --> 01:07:25.320 a game and it's ready to go and you're trying to get attention a couple 982 01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:28.960 years ago through more like a lot of VR specific video game coverage websites. 983 01:07:29.039 --> 01:07:30.880 Yeah, and now a lot of them aren't there anymore. Is it harder 984 01:07:30.880 --> 01:07:34.239 and difficult discouraging? I mean, I think if you look at games like 985 01:07:34.280 --> 01:07:40.440 Arizona Sunshine Too, which just just is launching tomorrow, like there's mainstream coverage 986 01:07:40.440 --> 01:07:44.280 of that, you know, front page of IGN reviewing it. So I 987 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:47.920 think what we're seeing is there's still VR specific sites that that are catering to 988 01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:51.880 that hardcore VR audience, but you've definitely got a lot more mainstream coverage too. 989 01:07:53.599 --> 01:07:56.079 It just seems like it's like it's just going to be another thing that 990 01:07:56.119 --> 01:07:59.320 gets covered by It's another it's another platform, Yeah, it's it's another thing. 991 01:07:59.360 --> 01:08:02.679 And I think that the number of experiences that are coming out in the 992 01:08:02.719 --> 01:08:08.320 next couple of years is going to bring in broader and broader audiences because people 993 01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:12.000 are figuring out like the exciting thing about VR. Like I've been a convert 994 01:08:12.000 --> 01:08:15.400 for a long time. Sure, I wrote an article for Polygon back in 995 01:08:15.440 --> 01:08:18.520 like twenty seventeen about how playing Beats Theaver helped me get over a back injury, 996 01:08:19.000 --> 01:08:21.840 and like, ever since then, I've been evangelical about it. But 997 01:08:23.359 --> 01:08:27.920 I'm not just drinking the kool aid Like, having worked in games for almost 998 01:08:27.960 --> 01:08:30.800 fifteen years now, I've gotten to be a part of really amazing titles. 999 01:08:31.319 --> 01:08:34.600 But this is the first time that I get to work in an area where 1000 01:08:34.640 --> 01:08:40.640 like there's new ground to break in a way that there just hasn't been like 1001 01:08:40.680 --> 01:08:43.199 this. This is to me, it's the dawn of the three D era 1002 01:08:43.319 --> 01:08:46.319 in the late nineties. It's it's you know, the break into the console 1003 01:08:46.319 --> 01:08:50.840 era that the NS represented, Like this is this is a big opportunity to 1004 01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:57.039 like actually pioneer some games they create, create something new. How does like 1005 01:08:57.079 --> 01:09:00.479 the structure work at sky dances it You guys are hiring developers, the contract 1006 01:09:00.479 --> 01:09:03.520 and developers, you have your own internal development teams. We've got we've got 1007 01:09:03.520 --> 01:09:08.680 internal development teams, like we work with outside support studios and stuff like that 1008 01:09:08.760 --> 01:09:13.319 as well. And then you know we're expanding into publishing initiatives in the future 1009 01:09:13.359 --> 01:09:15.319 and stuff like that. And then you know there's our our sister company, 1010 01:09:15.319 --> 01:09:20.439 Sky Nancy and Media. But Amy Hennay over there making some awesome stuff that 1011 01:09:20.520 --> 01:09:25.680 I cannot talk about. Some of Literally a bullet will rip through the wall 1012 01:09:26.720 --> 01:09:30.239 if I if I speak, the dots come up on it. You know. 1013 01:09:30.319 --> 01:09:33.680 Yeah, we've we've got we've got a pretty pretty awesome team. I 1014 01:09:33.720 --> 01:09:38.439 mean the same team that worked on Walking Down Saints and Centers. They're building 1015 01:09:38.680 --> 01:09:41.119 one new game that I can't talk about in the Behemoth, which is coming 1016 01:09:41.159 --> 01:09:44.800 out next year, that I'm like super stoked to share with everyone, Like 1017 01:09:45.520 --> 01:09:47.159 we'll be back to talk about and that was gonna be pretty dope, very 1018 01:09:47.159 --> 01:09:51.920 cool. Drake, What the hell is the funds are? What are you 1019 01:09:51.960 --> 01:09:59.159 doing? Like that hip hop guy like you Nard Warring right now? The 1020 01:09:59.600 --> 01:10:02.439 funds at Harvard? So I went that was your job, that was my 1021 01:10:02.520 --> 01:10:08.640 job title. I did go to Harvard, Guest, Let's do you know 1022 01:10:08.640 --> 01:10:13.239 why? You should have known? Because with the name like John Drake is 1023 01:10:13.279 --> 01:10:15.079 in Cambridge, Massachusetts, why else would you be a Cambridge Yeah. It 1024 01:10:15.079 --> 01:10:18.600 was the main point between Mit and Harvard. It's in Central Square. It 1025 01:10:18.680 --> 01:10:23.560 was now it's the Financial Issues PROSPCT. But I don't work there anymore. 1026 01:10:23.840 --> 01:10:28.000 Uh No. And then all all the people there were like from the music 1027 01:10:28.039 --> 01:10:30.159 scene in Boston. So I went to Harvard, but I spent all my 1028 01:10:30.159 --> 01:10:32.880 time producing theater and playing in a rock band, running a record label, 1029 01:10:32.920 --> 01:10:35.880 and touring and booking shows the Middle East, and now the Middle East is 1030 01:10:35.920 --> 01:10:41.199 like torn down ship. Yes, yeah, I was a touring musician for 1031 01:10:41.239 --> 01:10:44.560 a long time, and so anyway, I finished school for you. So 1032 01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:46.800 my bandmates we were making records. They took their senior year off to a 1033 01:10:46.880 --> 01:10:50.640 gap year, and I finished my four year school and then I stay in 1034 01:10:50.800 --> 01:10:54.119 town for the year after that. But I needed a job. I was 1035 01:10:54.159 --> 01:10:58.119 booking clubs in the city and they had a fellowship where they hired a recent 1036 01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:00.520 graduates who run like campus life programing. So I brought a carnival to all 1037 01:11:00.520 --> 01:11:04.000 Harvard Yard. I drove bumper cars over three hundred fifty year old steps for 1038 01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:08.800 in the yard and the hot Yeah. Yeah, And I got screened up 1039 01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:12.640 by Peter Gummbs, like the nine year old reverend, what are you doing? 1040 01:11:12.800 --> 01:11:17.399 And I was like, we have to bumper concob I booked Third Eye 1041 01:11:17.399 --> 01:11:21.600 Blind to play a concert. Yeah. I opened a bar on campus. 1042 01:11:21.640 --> 01:11:25.000 It was great anyway, it was a bar on campus. A bar on 1043 01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:27.880 campus, And was that the one in the law school. No, it's 1044 01:11:27.880 --> 01:11:30.359 close to law school though. So I stuck around Boston. The was way 1045 01:11:30.399 --> 01:11:32.920 stick around bus for sure. Then I fell backwards into video games and have 1046 01:11:33.119 --> 01:11:38.239 been stuck ever since, which is that's how we all got here New York 1047 01:11:38.520 --> 01:11:40.880 County for television. And then that was the last writers strike and they were 1048 01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:44.359 like, don't move here. Everything is bad. And then I was like, 1049 01:11:44.399 --> 01:11:46.079 I guess I could be a PR associate because I have an IVY degree. 1050 01:11:46.079 --> 01:11:48.920 They won't call me in assistant writing press wiss And my boss at the 1051 01:11:48.920 --> 01:11:53.159 time said, I'm gonna work on print media because that's what's important. Handle 1052 01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:59.800 he's online, blow future through the demos. And my job was like cutting 1053 01:11:59.840 --> 01:12:02.000 boxes for rock band bundles that came two to a box, taking the top 1054 01:12:02.039 --> 01:12:04.760 one out, putting it in a new box, cutting the box down and 1055 01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:08.960 tapping his shot and then mailing the people. And that's what my very expensive 1056 01:12:09.039 --> 01:12:13.640 education paper. You brought a Carnival to Harvard. You were literally literally a 1057 01:12:13.720 --> 01:12:15.399 Harvard Carnie. I was a Harvard Carnie. Yeah. I was on people 1058 01:12:15.399 --> 01:12:18.960 at a microphone on my shoulder. So you understand the purshoot work, all 1059 01:12:18.960 --> 01:12:24.159 the Carnie language. Well, yeah, the Carnie ladus became wrestling language dialogue. 1060 01:12:24.199 --> 01:12:25.800 Yeah, that's fine. Is that why I'm here. I'm here to 1061 01:12:25.840 --> 01:12:28.760 talk about my like twenty years ago, I don't know. I realized that 1062 01:12:29.119 --> 01:12:30.920 this is a food. You guys have a full lie down food. I've 1063 01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:33.079 never said that. I really took a nap here and I was like, 1064 01:12:33.159 --> 01:12:36.039 is this where Jeff is staying? Yes, I watched like that. I 1065 01:12:36.039 --> 01:12:42.560 think so it looks like eventually you did say you would be watching from home 1066 01:12:42.680 --> 01:12:46.000 here tomorrow, so I wonder if this was home said this is home. 1067 01:12:46.079 --> 01:12:50.000 Now. I know you should have fun one. It's like going It's like 1068 01:12:50.000 --> 01:12:51.840 how I feel about going to Paris, Like I want you to go once. 1069 01:12:51.960 --> 01:12:58.359 I don't. Yeah, I don't go back. What's your question, 1070 01:12:58.439 --> 01:13:01.119 Drake? Do you sit on your back you're supposed to? I can't, 1071 01:13:01.199 --> 01:13:04.000 Okay, I asked you a question. What do you do if you're sleeping 1072 01:13:04.039 --> 01:13:08.239 on your back and your leg and your legs are out, Are your feet 1073 01:13:08.720 --> 01:13:14.680 straight up? Are they tipped forward or are they split off the side. 1074 01:13:14.800 --> 01:13:17.760 That's when you're getting like a yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, doing 1075 01:13:17.800 --> 01:13:25.960 this relat Yeah yeah. Covers don't bother but I don't sleep on that would 1076 01:13:26.520 --> 01:13:30.199 yeah, I'm like very but it bothers me that there's pressure downwards like you're 1077 01:13:30.239 --> 01:13:38.960 in a car hotel. Be it's on just like it's going on thinking about 1078 01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:43.880 this last night. But you have to back like doctor's orders post. But 1079 01:13:43.920 --> 01:13:45.800 I'm worried that my legs being turned out like big perfect. You know, 1080 01:13:46.680 --> 01:13:49.319 about to wear a thing like sleep. Yeah, I've tried. It's not 1081 01:13:49.439 --> 01:13:55.319 it's a whole. I can't wear to make you sweaty socker feet, so 1082 01:13:56.000 --> 01:14:00.119 I should wear life. But also yeah, constantly feeling awkward. Do you 1083 01:14:00.119 --> 01:14:02.399 you like when your legs exploded at packs when you did the thing that's my 1084 01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:05.800 left achilles, No, it's my right knee. I was live on stage 1085 01:14:05.840 --> 01:14:15.880 during pass rest no help paramedic with the heart. I was in Austin, 1086 01:14:15.880 --> 01:14:20.880 so I knew where to go. So my achilles exploded and she was playing 1087 01:14:20.880 --> 01:14:25.560 a paramedic in the rest angelike fields and she ran up and I was like, 1088 01:14:25.640 --> 01:14:27.800 Danielle, I think I ruptured. I think I broke my ankle. 1089 01:14:27.880 --> 01:14:30.159 She's like, you know, she took her stethoscope off and listened to my 1090 01:14:30.199 --> 01:14:32.159 ankle and went, he's fine. I ran away. I was like, 1091 01:14:32.359 --> 01:14:36.840 I'm not doing thought it was ever hair walk and she's like and then they 1092 01:14:36.920 --> 01:14:40.119 carded me off in a stretch and she's like, oh shit, you were 1093 01:14:40.479 --> 01:14:42.560 not fucking around. Was like, no, I'm not fun anyway. And 1094 01:14:42.600 --> 01:14:44.960 then and then Tara Bruna from Tera Bruneau Pierre. I had to drive me 1095 01:14:45.000 --> 01:14:47.560 to New York because my flight was out of New York and I couldn't take 1096 01:14:47.560 --> 01:14:49.720 the train which I was going to take Tanbrook Angle and there was no Sarmmer 1097 01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:55.079 got slowed in New York for four x days with a ruptured achilles. I 1098 01:14:55.199 --> 01:14:59.720 jumped Zoe Quinn was playing my vampire butler and she won her match, and 1099 01:14:59.800 --> 01:15:03.079 I jumped with my White Eye credit card for my three. I jumped in 1100 01:15:03.119 --> 01:15:08.479 celebration and I landed and I thought, actually Dan Riker had had jumped behind 1101 01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:11.640 me and landed on my ankle because I heard a pop and I fell and 1102 01:15:11.680 --> 01:15:15.319 I turned around. He was seventy behind me. I was like, and 1103 01:15:15.359 --> 01:15:17.000 that was fine. And then I took a step and I tried to lift 1104 01:15:17.000 --> 01:15:19.079 my toe up and I was like nope, and I'm like, let me 1105 01:15:19.079 --> 01:15:27.000 talk. People on the ground taking their long I did a microphone and wow, 1106 01:15:28.199 --> 01:15:30.680 fashion blind, I'm still the fucking chimp. They never took the belt 1107 01:15:30.760 --> 01:15:38.119 off the Roman raised. They got nothing on me. Maybe in my office. 1108 01:15:38.159 --> 01:15:40.279 The leak of heels belt is in my office really work. Yeah, 1109 01:15:40.279 --> 01:15:43.359 people don't understand it at all. It's Disney, the American I'm sure we 1110 01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:45.479 speaking of Disney. How are things like kid left? I do care? 1111 01:15:45.560 --> 01:15:47.760 Last time we talked, we're like, oh, I still developers to make 1112 01:15:47.800 --> 01:15:50.760 all my games. You still winding about? Absolutely not what I said last 1113 01:15:50.760 --> 01:15:55.640 time games development. We said so many games, were like, we have 1114 01:15:55.680 --> 01:15:58.800 so many more ideas if I always have ideas, I'm an idea guy. 1115 01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:02.600 Everyone loves the idea guy. Yeahs the our developers, right thing us? 1116 01:16:02.600 --> 01:16:04.439 No, we have a we had a great year. I'm talking about trying 1117 01:16:04.439 --> 01:16:08.319 to write a top ten for the site. I push it together of all 1118 01:16:08.399 --> 01:16:14.159 games that we published the published it. Yeah, it's great. Island check 1119 01:16:14.239 --> 01:16:15.800 in. Check in in a week and a half for John Drake's top ten 1120 01:16:15.880 --> 01:16:19.119 shill games. Uh, go back to Giant Bond dot com and be out 1121 01:16:19.119 --> 01:16:24.960 of free subscription. Probably on sale at some point during the holidays. No, 1122 01:16:25.159 --> 01:16:27.720 yeah, it's it's been a good year at the Island. Is nominated 1123 01:16:27.760 --> 01:16:30.359 our Mickey and Friends co op platform switch. No, I'm your Family of 1124 01:16:30.359 --> 01:16:32.119 the Year. Be sure we'll lose the Nintendo for something. Last year, 1125 01:16:32.199 --> 01:16:35.840 dream Like Valley lost to Mario versus Rabbits, which is not a family game. 1126 01:16:35.960 --> 01:16:39.680 It's a hardcore tactics game with two characters. That's not a family game. 1127 01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:46.279 Think about when you're voting gone, just that family. We had a 1128 01:16:46.359 --> 01:16:50.239 room for some reason, and you're like, family, you should expose your 1129 01:16:50.279 --> 01:16:56.199 children to this with violence made by Italian developers and you're getting this year doesn't 1130 01:16:56.199 --> 01:17:02.159 even have Italian Yeah front on each Ye you're right anyway, So you know 1131 01:17:02.279 --> 01:17:05.800 we're twelve At what time is it? We are five and a half hours 1132 01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:10.399 away from Avatar Frontiers of Pandora. You can play it right now platform, 1133 01:17:10.840 --> 01:17:16.880 you got it? That's that is a large very. This is a mouse. 1134 01:17:16.920 --> 01:17:18.880 If you take this off, you can put on a table and access 1135 01:17:18.880 --> 01:17:21.520 a mouse. It's really cute. Yes, it's my kiddy cat. His 1136 01:17:21.600 --> 01:17:28.680 name is what's the frame rate you get for Avatar? Okay, didn't see 1137 01:17:28.720 --> 01:17:41.640 how wicked is by game? Yeah? There we have to Its happened in 1138 01:17:41.800 --> 01:17:45.000 Jenn Survivors nominated for stuff. Our friends across the hall in Marble have spider 1139 01:17:45.039 --> 01:17:48.159 Man, tea, rocking and rolling names, some full stuff. You know, 1140 01:17:48.319 --> 01:17:54.119 we're we're stuff in development development. Yeah, it will do something at 1141 01:17:54.119 --> 01:17:55.720 the show tomorrow. You don't have to say. But I mean, I'm 1142 01:17:55.720 --> 01:17:57.960 not telling you anything. I'll be at the show tomorrow. You'll get the 1143 01:17:58.439 --> 01:18:03.319 bullet. We'll rip through the wall. It's the same person. Yeah, 1144 01:18:03.479 --> 01:18:05.760 I'm not happy about it. I'm going to make you drink with me. 1145 01:18:06.079 --> 01:18:12.600 Come come afterwards. She's down with She's down in like actual good seats. 1146 01:18:12.600 --> 01:18:14.560 I'm in the oops. I thought we were gonna tickets, but we had 1147 01:18:14.600 --> 01:18:16.520 to buy tickets after the fact. I had to take They wouldn't let us 1148 01:18:16.520 --> 01:18:23.119 sit together. Just see whatever you want, like and also that's always been 1149 01:18:23.159 --> 01:18:25.239 fine except for I guess that kid who ran on stage lest year. So 1150 01:18:25.239 --> 01:18:28.000 now they're gonna be two years in a row. The game. Wait, 1151 01:18:28.119 --> 01:18:30.760 I think I think I saw that, like confirmed they have like actual L 1152 01:18:30.800 --> 01:18:34.039 A P D there this year versus just like off duty cars. So I 1153 01:18:34.159 --> 01:18:36.920 actually like this. Last year, my seat was like second row on the 1154 01:18:36.960 --> 01:18:42.079 aisle and it was the best seat like I ever had. But I couldn't 1155 01:18:42.119 --> 01:18:44.840 get that this year. I asked for like for acceensibility, but they're like, 1156 01:18:45.159 --> 01:18:47.000 we can't get you that close to the front because the heightened were They 1157 01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:50.000 saying, no one can get that close. Basically the closest I'm able to 1158 01:18:50.039 --> 01:18:54.600 get is like it's like seven rows back. Reggie has a whole road of 1159 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:59.760 himself. Most important resource if he has like a first class cabin where you 1160 01:18:59.800 --> 01:19:16.960 can down. I love a beer. Beer, please dark. I was 1161 01:19:17.039 --> 01:19:25.119 vamping to give you time. I'll do whatever. Well. I've been making 1162 01:19:25.960 --> 01:19:29.800 what are they called spaghettes. I've been making your lovely bartender make me spaghettes. 1163 01:19:30.039 --> 01:19:33.439 Really, what is a spaghette? Spaghett is usually a Miller high life 1164 01:19:33.479 --> 01:19:36.159 where you drink it's in a bottle. You drink the neck out and then 1165 01:19:36.159 --> 01:19:42.760 you fill the neck with apparel. It's delicious. It's like an adult Shirley 1166 01:19:44.039 --> 01:19:49.920 Highlights. Yes, I will you will be sold on this forever. I 1167 01:19:49.960 --> 01:19:53.920 want to take when you get back out there, I will do that. 1168 01:19:54.479 --> 01:19:59.720 I'll make it for you. Drink, get on Twitter and damp. Someone 1169 01:20:00.680 --> 01:20:05.880 do it the right way. Someone figure drinking your guest. I don't. 1170 01:20:06.920 --> 01:20:12.159 I'll make star get it. Actually, you look, You guys should do 1171 01:20:12.279 --> 01:20:15.720 what like what Andy Cohen does and watch what happens, like when he has 1172 01:20:15.760 --> 01:20:18.319 a bar behind hot bart Yeah, he has a hot bartender every time he 1173 01:20:18.399 --> 01:20:20.600 does something, and you should. You should get that next time, we'll 1174 01:20:20.600 --> 01:20:24.399 just do it out there. So I have the hot bartender, yeah bart 1175 01:20:26.119 --> 01:20:29.800 saying the hot bartender when we got you love yeah, yeah, yeah, 1176 01:20:29.880 --> 01:20:33.119 Yeah. You gotta get You gotta get a like a very himbo who doesn't 1177 01:20:33.119 --> 01:20:36.199 know how to make drinks behind you at the martin get like you have with 1178 01:20:36.319 --> 01:20:43.880 your these guys. Yeah, make you whatever and put it in front of 1179 01:20:43.920 --> 01:20:47.119 you and be like, I need exactly what you said. Crazy guys talking 1180 01:20:51.319 --> 01:20:59.159 second guy, do you know I swear to God on my grandpa'sand like he 1181 01:20:59.359 --> 01:21:03.399 just passed a squally. I miss you. I caught those men, thank 1182 01:21:03.399 --> 01:21:08.359 you so much. I caught those men bouncing their titties at each other when 1183 01:21:08.439 --> 01:21:13.560 no one was talking to they were getting They were standing silently, eyes locked, 1184 01:21:13.560 --> 01:21:15.800 and they weren't just I can't do it. They were bouncing. There 1185 01:21:15.880 --> 01:21:18.199 was no one around them, and I was like, if I had that, 1186 01:21:18.560 --> 01:21:24.239 then you didn't take it. I took a pig of them and one 1187 01:21:27.680 --> 01:21:30.439 we needed more to do. There was a kind of like a way where 1188 01:21:30.720 --> 01:21:33.560 So ripped. We keep trying to get him for the show. He's big 1189 01:21:33.640 --> 01:21:39.039 time in us. Yeah. It was wild. Those guys they were They're 1190 01:21:39.079 --> 01:21:43.359 like insanely. I don't like incomprehensibly ripped. Ye. But they also do 1191 01:21:43.479 --> 01:21:47.640 the Hollywood thing, which is they thank you, they dehydrate before they do 1192 01:21:47.760 --> 01:21:57.000 these big events. Then they drink a diec. That's what he looks super 1193 01:21:57.039 --> 01:21:59.039 bad. I heard. I heard that was the trick. It's like, 1194 01:21:59.159 --> 01:22:01.359 you dehydrate, can you drink like a coke or a diet coke or something 1195 01:22:01.479 --> 01:22:06.960 suddenly get all vascular. You're just loving these Yeah, that's how they did 1196 01:22:08.000 --> 01:22:13.439 the top fall. Like its fascinating, honestly, Like I know that it's 1197 01:22:13.640 --> 01:22:15.880 some people like in comments make fun of me because they're like, why are 1198 01:22:15.920 --> 01:22:20.720 you talking about seeing Oscar Isaac Dick and balls on the plane, And I'm 1199 01:22:20.800 --> 01:22:25.760 like, so, I think exactly. I think. You know, we 1200 01:22:25.840 --> 01:22:28.720 spent a long time in this industry seeing a lot of scantily clad women and 1201 01:22:28.760 --> 01:22:31.840 I'm really okay with seeing which time with objectifying men. And you know what, 1202 01:22:32.000 --> 01:22:39.920 you can put that on my two stone. I can say in my 1203 01:22:40.079 --> 01:22:44.279 career, like like we're heing in games. There was one time where I 1204 01:22:44.319 --> 01:22:47.800 had to give a note that was if we were going to have jiggly bear 1205 01:22:47.920 --> 01:22:53.760 breasts, we must match them with jiggly swinging penises. Thank you. That's 1206 01:22:53.880 --> 01:22:57.720 the HBO R. That's the rule. That's the rule. Equal opportunity, 1207 01:22:57.880 --> 01:23:01.520 unity, real rule. Didn't really a flight here. I started scenes from 1208 01:23:01.560 --> 01:23:05.039 a marriage hearing about Oscar Isaac Dick because I knew it was in it. 1209 01:23:06.159 --> 01:23:16.920 So this is why I worried about videos. You guys know that was it 1210 01:23:17.039 --> 01:23:21.640 was a very well received the thing because the Witcher when they did their their 1211 01:23:21.720 --> 01:23:26.479 next show, oh yeah, they accidentally patched in like a high deaf and 1212 01:23:26.600 --> 01:23:33.680 high reds like texture odd, and it included very realistic vagina truly like landing 1213 01:23:33.760 --> 01:23:42.159 strip like those those bulus those cow keeping up with. They went to a 1214 01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:47.439 salon and I swear I won't say who. I won't, but someone from 1215 01:23:47.520 --> 01:23:50.880 cd CDPR came up to me when I was last year and said, in 1216 01:23:50.960 --> 01:23:55.840 this adorable polish accent, you really gave us a hard time with the vaginas, 1217 01:23:58.920 --> 01:24:00.800 And all I can think about was that that should happen more. But 1218 01:24:00.920 --> 01:24:04.439 like with also Dick and Ball's exactly what. Yeah, you can't just clam 1219 01:24:04.520 --> 01:24:19.720 slam. We also thanks watching everybody. Oh oh my gosh, wow, 1220 01:24:20.640 --> 01:24:31.760 we're there, We're there. They fixed the air conditioner. I've never been 1221 01:24:31.840 --> 01:24:35.359 more excited about anything in my entire life. It feels great in here. 1222 01:24:35.479 --> 01:24:40.199 I've got energy, I got my second wind. Let's fucking go. Thank 1223 01:24:40.239 --> 01:24:43.960 you to infinite well like a dragon for supporting us, making this well possible 1224 01:24:44.560 --> 01:24:46.600 once to get. Thank you to n c XT and come to our show 1225 01:24:46.640 --> 01:24:48.960 on Saturday or watch it live. I think it was the big beats. 1226 01:24:48.960 --> 01:24:51.439 I need to keep saying. I'm gonna forget as we get later that night, 1227 01:24:51.439 --> 01:24:55.680 I'm gonna keep forgetting. They're gonna keep reminding me. I got more 1228 01:24:55.760 --> 01:24:58.319 friends with me. I will. Actually, first, I got my drink 1229 01:24:58.439 --> 01:25:00.520 that has like I don't know, elcibate it for me. It's got something 1230 01:25:00.560 --> 01:25:03.039 in there on the lip and it's very very good. I hope I'm not 1231 01:25:03.119 --> 01:25:05.199 being spiked right now. Actually I don't care. Let's make it happen. 1232 01:25:09.399 --> 01:25:12.479 Jake Steinberg, how are you doing. I'm doing well. Yeah. Yeah, 1233 01:25:12.520 --> 01:25:15.199 we're you know, not no games here, No they're not allowed, 1234 01:25:15.319 --> 01:25:16.279 no, no no, but we're talking about games, and I feel like 1235 01:25:16.319 --> 01:25:20.000 I just want everybody to know that in person, everyone here is so attractive. 1236 01:25:20.119 --> 01:25:24.319 Yes, it's like shocking. I think like twitch compression must add like 1237 01:25:24.399 --> 01:25:28.199 Oh yeah, it's totally. It's the most handsome industry. I completely agree. 1238 01:25:28.319 --> 01:25:30.279 Yeah, game explained. I want to just make sure I make some 1239 01:25:30.399 --> 01:25:33.439 saying that some people know Jake from Game explaining Jake from Philadelphia. Whatever. 1240 01:25:33.640 --> 01:25:40.840 Whatever, Yeah, whatever, keep Adams? What up? How you sat 1241 01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:44.600 on your head? What do you mean that's a Knick's head, That's a 1242 01:25:44.640 --> 01:25:46.880 Nicks head. I turned it back because we were bringing it back. You 1243 01:25:46.960 --> 01:25:51.279 know, what the hell? Nobody asks you nothing? So many w's. 1244 01:25:51.279 --> 01:25:57.880 How can you wrap a team that hasn't won in fifty years? Wow? 1245 01:26:00.159 --> 01:26:04.079 I can't here looking for love and all the wrong places. Nob got dumbs. 1246 01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:08.960 We have a decent squad, fired Rendel fan, and even I feel 1247 01:26:09.039 --> 01:26:11.880 kind of bad, and I'm saying I'm trying to I'm trying to steal your 1248 01:26:11.960 --> 01:26:14.479 dude from from for your squad. Actually, I'm like, I can take 1249 01:26:14.560 --> 01:26:15.640 him beat then we're good. Yeah, I got it all. But good 1250 01:26:15.640 --> 01:26:18.359 to see y'all. Goods here in Paris. How are you doing Paris, 1251 01:26:18.399 --> 01:26:23.880 Lily? I haven't doing fantastic, sir. It dawned on me, this 1252 01:26:24.039 --> 01:26:26.600 is the second time you and I have seen each other in person, and 1253 01:26:26.640 --> 01:26:29.600 it's literally the same. I think you were in the same seat last time. 1254 01:26:29.680 --> 01:26:31.520 Yeah, so it's like it's like we don't know outside of here, 1255 01:26:32.359 --> 01:26:35.399 we'll never will never happened, just gonna be this. But that's what you 1256 01:26:35.479 --> 01:26:40.640 know. For you, you know, I am repping the Los Angeles Lakers. 1257 01:26:41.119 --> 01:26:45.439 Actually a championship work. So if you want to know what it feels 1258 01:26:45.479 --> 01:26:48.039 like to actually win, just just keep sitting next to him. I mean, 1259 01:26:48.159 --> 01:26:50.840 look, I'm not going to talk about Lebron and and all the you 1260 01:26:50.920 --> 01:26:55.399 know, weird things that he's been into and you know, stealing, stealing 1261 01:26:55.520 --> 01:27:00.399 children, stealing children's blood, keep himself young all the time, those internet 1262 01:27:00.439 --> 01:27:04.039 pages. Who you gotta do? Graham Reid, thanks for joining us, 1263 01:27:04.079 --> 01:27:06.520 man, thanks for having me. Yeah, absolutely, I'm glad to make 1264 01:27:06.560 --> 01:27:11.199 it. A game developer, you've been busy. You got a game this 1265 01:27:11.279 --> 01:27:15.319 year, right club. Yes, absolutely, it's one of the meaning to 1266 01:27:15.319 --> 01:27:16.920 get around to you. It got my vibe, it's got a good look. 1267 01:27:17.239 --> 01:27:20.039 Thank you. You need to leave and go play and then yeah, 1268 01:27:20.399 --> 01:27:23.159 you know what, you guys handle this yourself. I'm gonna do that. 1269 01:27:24.560 --> 01:27:30.199 Dalli Damovski side questions own you know, baby, Dolly, I was going 1270 01:27:30.239 --> 01:27:33.680 to go to Eisenhower the same high. Yeah, move because we're like from 1271 01:27:33.680 --> 01:27:38.239 the same exact area. I'm from twenty four miles. Yeah, absolutely there 1272 01:27:38.239 --> 01:27:41.520 and check of treating at your house probably probably, yeah, almost certainly. 1273 01:27:41.760 --> 01:27:45.279 I just want to bring up they're talking about winning and losing organizations wrapping my 1274 01:27:45.439 --> 01:27:49.279 Detroit Pistons, sad boys who are atrocious this year, probably been. But 1275 01:27:49.600 --> 01:27:54.560 the Lions are not atrocious, so if it is. But yeah, otherwise, 1276 01:27:54.600 --> 01:27:58.119 Hey, you know what, we got a young squad they're learning watch 1277 01:27:58.359 --> 01:28:03.680 Philadelphia on on. I think they could be Philadelphia. I saw hurts not 1278 01:28:03.760 --> 01:28:09.239 put up in them? What do you mean usaw hearts? What the push 1279 01:28:09.319 --> 01:28:14.319 is over here? That's done, Jake, Let's start with you man, 1280 01:28:14.359 --> 01:28:16.520 how I feel it about video games in twenty twenty three. Uh, video 1281 01:28:16.560 --> 01:28:24.479 games are good, video games are inclusive and special. And it's tough because 1282 01:28:24.479 --> 01:28:29.960 we have obviously one of the toughest years to kind of like witness as somebody 1283 01:28:30.039 --> 01:28:35.439 in games right because not only are we watching like historical layoffs happen across the 1284 01:28:35.520 --> 01:28:40.359 industry, I think there's also just a bit of a push happening right now 1285 01:28:40.840 --> 01:28:45.199 for people to use the voices, use the power they have to talk about 1286 01:28:45.239 --> 01:28:46.960 things that do matter, to use these platforms that matter and to like talk 1287 01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:49.960 about them through our games. And I think, like, you see this 1288 01:28:50.079 --> 01:28:55.960 stuff happening in beautiful ways in games that you don't even expect to see it 1289 01:28:56.039 --> 01:28:59.399 in, like in a triple A Sony game, maybe their biggest release of 1290 01:28:59.479 --> 01:29:03.880 year, Spider and two. This is a game where like it's inclusivity and 1291 01:29:03.960 --> 01:29:09.399 its diversity is important, and it champions in it not just in its messaging, 1292 01:29:09.479 --> 01:29:12.840 but like in its gameplay systems, and like that is that is like 1293 01:29:12.960 --> 01:29:15.760 a crazy thing that I don't think was really happening, But forre like this 1294 01:29:16.000 --> 01:29:18.760 year, well, I think it shows that the conversation has some effect. 1295 01:29:18.840 --> 01:29:24.600 Over time. It got to Sony, like to one of the biggest producers 1296 01:29:24.640 --> 01:29:27.199 in the industry, and it's kind of we can kind of make fun of 1297 01:29:27.239 --> 01:29:30.279 it. But if you remember way back when in twenty eighteen, when the 1298 01:29:30.319 --> 01:29:32.920 first Spider Man game came out, there was this whole conversation about how there 1299 01:29:33.000 --> 01:29:38.000 was so much allegiance to cops in that game in a time where anti cops 1300 01:29:38.000 --> 01:29:42.680 sentiment was really riling up, and in this game they changed that conversation. 1301 01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:45.479 Now, did they stick the landing not quite it's a little goofy, but 1302 01:29:45.520 --> 01:29:47.199 it's goofy in the way that their game is. And I think the fact 1303 01:29:47.239 --> 01:29:51.359 that they even tried, they listened and said, let's change our messaging, 1304 01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:54.960 that's impressive. I think two things are happening at the same time, a 1305 01:29:55.039 --> 01:30:00.239 corporation is cynically trying to capitalize on where things are trenching, and the same 1306 01:30:00.279 --> 01:30:02.880 time, real people inside these companies actually care about what's happening and they're the 1307 01:30:02.920 --> 01:30:06.880 ones actually making that happen. It's like both can be true and we can 1308 01:30:08.000 --> 01:30:10.680 recognize it, and we can also champion the people that are trying to make 1309 01:30:10.720 --> 01:30:14.119 it happen totally. And the fact that we are able to push the conversation 1310 01:30:14.319 --> 01:30:19.039 in that direction actually get a corporation get a product to materially change that's that's 1311 01:30:19.479 --> 01:30:21.840 you know, a product of social media, a product of where the press 1312 01:30:21.920 --> 01:30:25.840 is right now, and it's something that I think is really emblematic of the 1313 01:30:26.000 --> 01:30:30.239 modern era of gaming. This conversation between the consumer and the creator that has 1314 01:30:30.359 --> 01:30:32.960 never been at the level that it is now. So that's something that's really 1315 01:30:33.000 --> 01:30:35.359 cool to see. And I think like in the future, wondering, you 1316 01:30:35.399 --> 01:30:39.119 know, with all the stuff going on now, I do wonder like how 1317 01:30:39.199 --> 01:30:41.680 it's going to snowball, how it's going to keep going. Where is the 1318 01:30:41.880 --> 01:30:45.359 natural conclusion for this conversation? Yeah? Yeah, God, you think people 1319 01:30:45.399 --> 01:30:47.720 are being listened to for real by these corporations? Or where is it? 1320 01:30:47.760 --> 01:30:49.960 Whe's your temperature? How? Mean? It depends, right, I think 1321 01:30:50.000 --> 01:30:54.520 it depends on the kind of games that we're talking about. It depends on 1322 01:30:54.560 --> 01:30:57.720 the kind of corporate structures we see, It depends on the outreach in the 1323 01:30:57.760 --> 01:31:00.600 content creative space, which has also been a really interestant conversation about where that 1324 01:31:00.800 --> 01:31:03.840 is actually happening as opposed to the lip service of you kind of as seen 1325 01:31:03.960 --> 01:31:08.399 from some years prior. So it winds up being this really interesting pushing poll 1326 01:31:08.479 --> 01:31:13.399 where the output that we wind up seeing has gotten more woken the best ways, 1327 01:31:13.439 --> 01:31:15.520 which is great, which I think is fantastic. I think the conversations 1328 01:31:15.560 --> 01:31:20.000 that are happening that actually kind of move that conversation forward are still kind of 1329 01:31:20.079 --> 01:31:24.520 tiptoeing around here, right, So, like we'll see some things happen in 1330 01:31:24.880 --> 01:31:29.119 game content, well, we will still see a lack of representation behind the 1331 01:31:29.159 --> 01:31:31.239 scenes in the games that are being a madried like Black folks still make up 1332 01:31:31.359 --> 01:31:35.199 two percent two to three percent in the gaming industry. That's still a conversation 1333 01:31:35.239 --> 01:31:40.039 that is still getting a chance to move. But we see that a lot 1334 01:31:40.079 --> 01:31:44.560 of the content pulls from those cultures all the time. So it's that kind 1335 01:31:44.600 --> 01:31:47.039 of conversation of like where does it live? Do you guys feel like it 1336 01:31:47.199 --> 01:31:50.600 is going to go back and forth. There's still going to be this push 1337 01:31:50.640 --> 01:31:54.359 a poll where the content is reflecting this because it's good business, right, 1338 01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:57.359 be more diverse int your business. You're going to make more money so that 1339 01:31:57.600 --> 01:32:00.000 the audiences want that. I mean, I think we see this in hollywod 1340 01:32:00.039 --> 01:32:01.840 It all the time, like they'll fast furious that it's very diverse casts five 1341 01:32:01.920 --> 01:32:04.159 hundred million dollars. I mean, movies aren't doing that anymore, but it 1342 01:32:04.279 --> 01:32:08.479 was when it was at its most diverse. The markets want that, and 1343 01:32:08.760 --> 01:32:11.279 then that happens, that succeeds, and then people stop again and say, 1344 01:32:11.279 --> 01:32:14.600 well, to keep having the conversation. Are the people responsible for this as 1345 01:32:15.000 --> 01:32:17.000 diverse as what we're seeing on the screen, right? That's happening. Yeah, 1346 01:32:17.039 --> 01:32:19.880 But I think there's a balance too, even in that conversation right where 1347 01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:24.800 you'll see the move up. Right, We'll use the football analogy. Right, 1348 01:32:24.840 --> 01:32:27.399 we're moving down the field, getting close to the end zone with some 1349 01:32:27.479 --> 01:32:30.840 of the conversations that we're seeing, and then we'll have a penalty hit. 1350 01:32:30.159 --> 01:32:32.439 And then we'll go back a little bit. When you see you shut up, 1351 01:32:32.760 --> 01:32:38.439 we'll have a penalty hit. Where now you see the culture kind of 1352 01:32:38.520 --> 01:32:41.840 talk about it in certain ways, right, like even g six right, 1353 01:32:42.560 --> 01:32:45.560 women protagonists, Latina in the space. Everyone's like, well, I don't 1354 01:32:45.560 --> 01:32:48.119 know if I can put like parts of the community you say, I don't 1355 01:32:48.159 --> 01:32:53.199 know if that like the incentivized monetization on Twitter, pushing those guys at the 1356 01:32:53.239 --> 01:32:55.199 top because they know they're going to make amunt a lot of money by making 1357 01:32:55.199 --> 01:32:58.520 people mad. I think that there's a balance of that conversation too, right, 1358 01:32:58.600 --> 01:33:00.800 Like I think there is always I always think of culture as a reflection. 1359 01:33:01.079 --> 01:33:03.479 I think of the conversation is always reflection on the culture is in some 1360 01:33:03.560 --> 01:33:06.880 ways right. Those folks may not necessarily be the ones who will jump on 1361 01:33:06.920 --> 01:33:10.199 Twitter, but they may be the ones that when you go and hang out, 1362 01:33:10.960 --> 01:33:13.520 you know, get get a purse that gets clutched a little bit closer, 1363 01:33:13.680 --> 01:33:15.720 or you know, you're moving into space and some of the some of 1364 01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:18.960 those pieces then kind of show themselves in the ways that we classically and kind 1365 01:33:18.960 --> 01:33:24.399 of always seen discrimination happen. But I do think that what we're seeing in 1366 01:33:24.479 --> 01:33:29.279 some of those spaces that we hadn't seen before is companies like Rockstar dig in 1367 01:33:29.399 --> 01:33:32.399 and do that kind of work. Even in five with what's his name the 1368 01:33:32.439 --> 01:33:38.560 black character in that game after guy's name or not, Trevor just blinked on 1369 01:33:38.600 --> 01:33:42.279 it, but like that character, Yeah, we know, we know the 1370 01:33:42.359 --> 01:33:45.119 black guy, but but yeah, I know I had to do it. 1371 01:33:45.199 --> 01:33:49.760 It was me, but it was But even that character was a characterture of 1372 01:33:50.319 --> 01:33:55.039 black culture, right. But the pieces that were in there, in facts 1373 01:33:55.199 --> 01:33:58.760 in his crew and the folks that were in there specifically talk to those parts 1374 01:33:58.880 --> 01:34:01.800 of the culture that a lot of folks actually resonate with. And I think 1375 01:34:02.119 --> 01:34:08.239 those parts are the most important because people were seen in the making of those 1376 01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:12.119 characters. There was some layers of that that felt very true to folks who 1377 01:34:12.119 --> 01:34:15.279 were in those hoods and people were in those neighborhoods. So we're getting this 1378 01:34:15.960 --> 01:34:20.640 interesting mix of the energy that we know is there and has always been there, 1379 01:34:21.199 --> 01:34:25.560 that is now kind of filtering itself into the greater culture, and then 1380 01:34:25.600 --> 01:34:28.840 the greater culture is catching up in the game space, right, so yeah, 1381 01:34:29.359 --> 01:34:31.199 it gets pushed ford a little bit. Yeah, these guys from from 1382 01:34:31.399 --> 01:34:34.199 like Scotland or whatever the hell rock stars at They're like, we're gonna do 1383 01:34:34.199 --> 01:34:39.359 a little anthropology in America, and right like, it succeeds and then that 1384 01:34:39.760 --> 01:34:42.640 hopefully creates more opportunity. Is that the idea, I mean, the hope 1385 01:34:42.720 --> 01:34:45.680 is there. I mean I think you know, urban cultures have driven everything 1386 01:34:45.760 --> 01:34:47.720 forever, right like, it's been the hottest thing that the course has been 1387 01:34:47.760 --> 01:34:51.119 for in that space and entertaining for a long period of time. It is 1388 01:34:51.239 --> 01:34:55.119 interesting to see how folks are now attaching themselves to it and using that. 1389 01:34:55.520 --> 01:34:59.720 But I still think that there's a space that is missing where games are still 1390 01:34:59.760 --> 01:35:02.520 common and terry on some of those pieces, but they still haven't fully uh 1391 01:35:02.840 --> 01:35:08.119 kind of jumped that that that chasm of Okay, so now we'll see a 1392 01:35:08.199 --> 01:35:12.159 studio that is run by POC folks and all these folks and there, I 1393 01:35:12.159 --> 01:35:14.560 mean, there are some that are out there now that that are that are 1394 01:35:14.600 --> 01:35:16.640 making some really good strides and they're they're doing brilliant work and they're going to 1395 01:35:16.680 --> 01:35:20.560 be doing some brilliant work, but it hasn't really hit that zeitgeist moment yet 1396 01:35:20.640 --> 01:35:27.199 where you know what I'm saying. But it's like, even even with Graham's 1397 01:35:27.199 --> 01:35:31.079 work, which is brilliant, there there there are very few large studios, 1398 01:35:31.279 --> 01:35:36.880 medium even medium sized studios that are running that way right. So I think 1399 01:35:36.920 --> 01:35:41.600 it winds up being where folks like Graham and other folks like that who are 1400 01:35:41.920 --> 01:35:45.880 doing network solo with other teams and kind of collaborating, collaborating, are pushing 1401 01:35:45.960 --> 01:35:50.000 that conversation forward to say, you know, we are making really dope stuff 1402 01:35:50.039 --> 01:35:54.159 here, and now you need that other layer. When you get that kind 1403 01:35:54.199 --> 01:35:59.039 of mass production, not mass production, but mass kind of critical critical mass, 1404 01:35:59.479 --> 01:36:02.439 that'll push that into a space where those studios then get to make the 1405 01:36:02.520 --> 01:36:05.880 thing that everyone has been talking about, Like that's been the conversation with the 1406 01:36:05.960 --> 01:36:09.560 Black Panther game and stuff like that, is like, that's the first thing 1407 01:36:09.600 --> 01:36:11.960 that people were talking Paris. You're gonna jump in. You want to jump 1408 01:36:11.960 --> 01:36:17.279 in its literally because I'm not going yeah I can't, but no, but 1409 01:36:17.800 --> 01:36:20.520 you touched on the black Panther thing. That was something that I was going 1410 01:36:20.600 --> 01:36:28.039 to bring up because I think that is a perfect symbol of the problem that 1411 01:36:28.199 --> 01:36:32.359 we have in this industry right now when it comes to enabling more people of 1412 01:36:32.439 --> 01:36:35.720 color, more people of women into positions. There's two of them. There's 1413 01:36:35.920 --> 01:36:40.880 there's two Black Panther gainst me Amy HNNCK Studio, right, and that's two 1414 01:36:40.880 --> 01:36:45.079 opportunities, right. What's reality on the ground that game and I think more 1415 01:36:45.159 --> 01:36:47.840 than the Amy Henning game, But either one doesn't matter. But I think 1416 01:36:48.279 --> 01:36:55.399 it's it's gonna be an important period of time when that game comes out, 1417 01:36:55.520 --> 01:36:58.279 how it's received, Like when you think about the Black Panther movie, when 1418 01:36:58.319 --> 01:37:01.159 that came out, how important that was to to my community. I mean, 1419 01:37:01.199 --> 01:37:04.600 it was literally an event. So that game needs to be the same 1420 01:37:04.680 --> 01:37:09.239 thing it does. And you need to have people in the room, especially 1421 01:37:09.279 --> 01:37:12.920 the leadership room, and there was, right, there was, and you 1422 01:37:13.000 --> 01:37:15.279 need that for the game as well. And I know they're making stripes for 1423 01:37:15.319 --> 01:37:18.119 that and they're hiring, there's various people are coming in. But that's part 1424 01:37:18.159 --> 01:37:24.399 of the problem that that's an exception to the rule. We don't see and 1425 01:37:24.520 --> 01:37:28.159 I'm just gonna get it real. You don't see enough of us in there. 1426 01:37:28.279 --> 01:37:34.800 And and it Honestly, it starts at the child level gaining the proper 1427 01:37:34.840 --> 01:37:38.399 skills because one thing you know, and we know, social media is at 1428 01:37:38.520 --> 01:37:41.800 nightmare. But the one argument whenever you bring this up is well, you 1429 01:37:41.960 --> 01:37:45.560 just got to hire the best people. I agree. I agree, you 1430 01:37:45.640 --> 01:37:49.159 hire the best people. But we need to enable more people of color, 1431 01:37:49.279 --> 01:37:55.520 more more women, to get the skills necessary to be the best people so 1432 01:37:55.640 --> 01:37:58.520 that they can be hired to be in there. Nobody wants a handout. 1433 01:37:58.600 --> 01:38:00.720 Nobody's saying just hire someone to hire them because of the color of their skin 1434 01:38:00.840 --> 01:38:04.439 or their gender. You want skilled people. But part of the problem is 1435 01:38:04.560 --> 01:38:11.199 we're not setting up enough programs when kids are at the teenage level to say, 1436 01:38:11.239 --> 01:38:13.920 hey, I want to learn how to code, I want to learn 1437 01:38:14.159 --> 01:38:16.159 program management or whatever the case may be, to you know, have the 1438 01:38:16.279 --> 01:38:18.760 type of game development job that's going to be able to make these kind of 1439 01:38:18.800 --> 01:38:23.359 games. Because I don't think enough people that look like us have that skill 1440 01:38:23.479 --> 01:38:26.960 set, because they're not encouraged to get it at the age. My son 1441 01:38:27.199 --> 01:38:30.000 as an example, and I'm throwing them under the bus. He's seventeen. 1442 01:38:30.039 --> 01:38:33.279 I am on him constantly about learning how to code. I don't want to 1443 01:38:33.319 --> 01:38:35.960 do that. Why, I'm like, boy, trust me, I don't 1444 01:38:36.000 --> 01:38:41.279 learn learn it. Yes, even if you never use it, to have 1445 01:38:41.520 --> 01:38:45.159 that skill in your back pocket, because you never know when it's gonna you 1446 01:38:45.239 --> 01:38:46.399 know, you're gonna need it. Yeah, did you get the sense that 1447 01:38:48.119 --> 01:38:50.960 there was a moment there where it's like, yeah, of course we're all 1448 01:38:50.960 --> 01:38:54.239 these DEI initiatives, we have all these things where we're trying to make a 1449 01:38:54.239 --> 01:38:57.000 more diversity, and now that look and look what's happening. Thank you, 1450 01:38:57.199 --> 01:39:00.159 that's exactly what's happened that they're the first the ghost ago. Yeah. I 1451 01:39:00.199 --> 01:39:02.600 mean, and it's not just at a couple of places. It feels like 1452 01:39:02.760 --> 01:39:06.279 industry wide sold all that breaks. I worked, and that's it's it's a 1453 01:39:06.479 --> 01:39:10.079 real real deal of what that means. I was working. I was working 1454 01:39:10.159 --> 01:39:13.319 in the di layer of a riot for a couple of years and it was 1455 01:39:13.359 --> 01:39:16.119 a struggle to get some of those conversations through some of the layers that were 1456 01:39:16.159 --> 01:39:19.319 there. And we in the head of that department was a black woman, 1457 01:39:19.800 --> 01:39:23.760 So it's it changes a lot of the conversations that go along with that. 1458 01:39:23.840 --> 01:39:27.840 And I think speaking to what Pastor's talking about with with you know, getting 1459 01:39:27.840 --> 01:39:30.600 his son to code the things that a lot of folks are kind of pushing 1460 01:39:30.640 --> 01:39:35.119 through the layers of DEI and and and a lot of those those talking points 1461 01:39:35.159 --> 01:39:42.239 and very important initiatives is about how do you break that barrier between the socioeconomic 1462 01:39:42.520 --> 01:39:45.720 parts that we know we are there and the culturals like guys pieces that you 1463 01:39:45.800 --> 01:39:48.680 need to kind of move things forward. Like for me, one of the 1464 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:51.439 things I was dying to get done or try to get done. And you 1465 01:39:51.520 --> 01:39:54.560 know, again as a person who's working there for all a couple of years, 1466 01:39:54.560 --> 01:39:57.119 it's a very hard thing to do was to make the case of like 1467 01:39:57.399 --> 01:40:01.640 why is league not a thing in you know, schools and the right like 1468 01:40:02.159 --> 01:40:05.399 why is that not an initiative tech in the hood? I mean, I 1469 01:40:05.439 --> 01:40:08.640 mean, look, but that's a big part of the conversation to it. 1470 01:40:08.720 --> 01:40:12.079 And you're right, right, like the index very highly and some of some 1471 01:40:12.239 --> 01:40:15.560 of those spaces are the fighting game communities and and and sportsas and also horror 1472 01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:20.199 games and alas. But it is a space in which you need some of 1473 01:40:20.279 --> 01:40:25.720 those companies to say we're going to spend resources in some of these neighborhoods to 1474 01:40:25.920 --> 01:40:29.560 build up some of those esports leagues and some of those esports layers that are 1475 01:40:29.800 --> 01:40:31.720 that are not only going to touch that cultural layer that will get people to 1476 01:40:31.760 --> 01:40:35.640 be excited about it, but also do that other work of teaching you that 1477 01:40:35.800 --> 01:40:40.479 gateway drug of what it's like to be in tech and to be encoding spaces 1478 01:40:40.520 --> 01:40:42.560 and do that kind of work, right. I mean, it just it 1479 01:40:42.680 --> 01:40:45.560 feels like that's where we're back in the rut where it's like they're no longer 1480 01:40:45.640 --> 01:40:49.840 going to like stop making products for minorities and for other cultures. They're happy 1481 01:40:49.880 --> 01:40:53.920 to get your money. That's what they're very happy with. That fundation that's 1482 01:40:54.000 --> 01:40:57.960 not going away. So the conversation is now like, well, can we 1483 01:40:58.039 --> 01:41:00.840 make some money for that's as well? Shouldn't that be part of the conversation 1484 01:41:00.880 --> 01:41:01.960 as well? Hank Fols like we kind of like got up the hill a 1485 01:41:01.960 --> 01:41:04.640 little bit and rolled back a little bit. It's where it feels like that 1486 01:41:04.840 --> 01:41:06.880 that to make I mean, it seems like we went through this period of 1487 01:41:06.960 --> 01:41:10.760 time where COVID's going on and there's a lot of free money going around, 1488 01:41:10.880 --> 01:41:15.479 especially for corporations. Yes, and then you have this corporate leadership who's spending 1489 01:41:15.119 --> 01:41:19.079 recklessly and now that things are getting a little bit tighter. It's like, 1490 01:41:19.119 --> 01:41:21.640 Okay, who are the first people to go? And it's so obviously they 1491 01:41:21.680 --> 01:41:26.800 show their hand every time about who is important here, You're gonna make the 1492 01:41:26.840 --> 01:41:30.000 thing. It was like, we did not have messages in our movies. 1493 01:41:30.039 --> 01:41:31.199 We need to make good stories. It's like, what are you saying? 1494 01:41:31.479 --> 01:41:36.800 And it's always the people actually making the product who get punished and it's such 1495 01:41:36.800 --> 01:41:41.720 a shame. Like like parents, I like the whole idea of hiring the 1496 01:41:41.760 --> 01:41:45.119 best person for the job, right, but nothing in life is a meritocracy, 1497 01:41:45.960 --> 01:41:48.079 you know what I mean. It's like this is like in the same 1498 01:41:48.239 --> 01:41:53.680 year that we are, we're cutting like race based affirmative action, but we're 1499 01:41:53.720 --> 01:41:56.560 not doing anything the legacy admissions. Right, It's like you know, it's 1500 01:41:56.880 --> 01:41:58.960 we see you can see through it because they're not trying to hide it, 1501 01:41:59.079 --> 01:42:00.319 right, Yeah, they know exactly what they're doing. That was the goal, 1502 01:42:00.359 --> 01:42:02.760 and that's where we're at. Yeah, And I really feel like the 1503 01:42:02.880 --> 01:42:06.760 power of a lot of these diversity initiatives. It's like a mirror breaking and 1504 01:42:06.840 --> 01:42:10.359 you don't even really know it until it hits you. And I know that 1505 01:42:10.560 --> 01:42:13.439 I like, as somebody that has an immense amount of white privilege. I 1506 01:42:13.520 --> 01:42:15.600 didn't know what I was missing out on until I grew up in a bi 1507 01:42:15.720 --> 01:42:18.520 level household and then mom's a Cuban immigrant, and the first time I played 1508 01:42:18.520 --> 01:42:23.600 the Miles Morales game, I'm hearing his mom speak in that house, I 1509 01:42:23.720 --> 01:42:26.600 was like, oh my god, it's something like the house I grew up 1510 01:42:26.640 --> 01:42:29.560 in. And I didn't even know I was missing that. And I want 1511 01:42:29.600 --> 01:42:31.680 people to have that moment. I want, like that should be out there 1512 01:42:31.760 --> 01:42:38.319 for everybody. Yeah. Absolutely, rand you started making games while living in 1513 01:42:38.399 --> 01:42:42.880 Jamaica, right, No, no, no, you lived a Jamaica through 1514 01:42:42.960 --> 01:42:45.520 high school, right all throughout school, and then you came here and start 1515 01:42:45.600 --> 01:42:47.880 learning to make the games late or what. So I didn't even know making 1516 01:42:47.920 --> 01:42:51.600 games was an option when I was in high school. Because even I feel 1517 01:42:51.600 --> 01:42:54.399 like even the hare that I did to teach you maybe know they do, 1518 01:42:54.479 --> 01:42:58.119 but it'll teach about programming, that'll teach about with game developments. And I 1519 01:42:58.159 --> 01:43:01.479 thought that was something that big companies in and then came here did like motion 1520 01:43:01.560 --> 01:43:05.680 graphics and that kind of stuff. And then it's one day my friend shouted 1521 01:43:05.800 --> 01:43:09.640 to Bobby. He was like, Hey, this is a global game jam 1522 01:43:09.800 --> 01:43:12.720 and we just did that and I realized, oh, there's tools, there's 1523 01:43:12.800 --> 01:43:15.800 unity, there's like all these other programs that you can use to make games. 1524 01:43:15.760 --> 01:43:18.239 But there still wasn't anyone that looked like me, or even just any 1525 01:43:18.399 --> 01:43:23.920 real standouts in this that I could look up to, you know, and 1526 01:43:24.079 --> 01:43:27.520 no, I feel like between me, between like Exalivator and Nelson, like 1527 01:43:27.520 --> 01:43:31.520 all these different people we're trying to it's not just making good games, but 1528 01:43:31.560 --> 01:43:36.279 also trying to be a face for the youth to actually see, hey, 1529 01:43:36.439 --> 01:43:42.000 you can make games. It is that one one part to that because like 1530 01:43:42.479 --> 01:43:45.079 in my day job, I work in cybersecurity, I do info sex, 1531 01:43:45.199 --> 01:43:49.039 right, and it's that same thing. There's not a lot of mes running 1532 01:43:49.079 --> 01:43:53.520 around there, right, So there wasn't that personal look up to the inspire 1533 01:43:53.560 --> 01:43:58.199 to be. I was very lucky, fortunate enough to have a mentor that 1534 01:43:58.680 --> 01:44:00.640 you taught me and got me to wear I am. But to your point, 1535 01:44:01.159 --> 01:44:03.920 people like yourself Exavier are very important. But I also think at the 1536 01:44:04.000 --> 01:44:08.760 leadership level is very important to see that too. And I've said it before, 1537 01:44:08.760 --> 01:44:12.119 I'll say it again. That's why seeing someone like Sarah Bond is very 1538 01:44:12.159 --> 01:44:15.600 important in our community because look, I mean, the hell she's the president 1539 01:44:15.680 --> 01:44:19.760 now, I mean that's inspiring to go, oh wow, I can go 1540 01:44:19.920 --> 01:44:23.399 do That's I just can't inspire. Right, it's a lesson like it is 1541 01:44:23.600 --> 01:44:26.640 that which she provides an example. We all get a certain point. We 1542 01:44:26.680 --> 01:44:29.800 all just learned by example. Way from having kids is the way I behave 1543 01:44:29.880 --> 01:44:32.279 the way they're going to behave. And that's true in every scenario. And 1544 01:44:32.399 --> 01:44:34.960 if you see someone you're like that you can't relate to, You're not necessarily 1545 01:44:35.000 --> 01:44:38.600 going to mirror their behavior. But if you see someone who's like, oh, 1546 01:44:39.000 --> 01:44:41.359 oh I could behave that way, I could be someone's mentor, right, 1547 01:44:41.680 --> 01:44:43.720 I mean, do you feel like you have the opportunity to do that? 1548 01:44:43.800 --> 01:44:46.039 Now? Are there people coming up beneath you in your space that you 1549 01:44:46.079 --> 01:44:48.760 feel like you go you could potentially mentor? Or is it like maybe the 1550 01:44:48.840 --> 01:44:53.600 latter's not getting passed down in some ways? I mean there are some for 1551 01:44:54.079 --> 01:44:58.239 sure, I would say for me and I'm freaking nobody, but it's like 1552 01:44:58.399 --> 01:45:00.840 I definitely try to. Like you know, Danny Pin, you've had you've 1553 01:45:00.880 --> 01:45:04.760 had got you on here before. He mentored me, He helped me early 1554 01:45:04.840 --> 01:45:08.920 on. So the things that he taught me. I definitely try and pass 1555 01:45:09.000 --> 01:45:12.920 along to the quote unquote next generation of creators that are coming up, like, 1556 01:45:13.159 --> 01:45:14.920 hey, here's what I learned. Hey, look, we didn't have 1557 01:45:15.279 --> 01:45:17.479 these tools, we didn't have this access or this is how you deal with 1558 01:45:17.600 --> 01:45:20.760 pr this is this is how it works on the inside. When you you 1559 01:45:20.880 --> 01:45:24.159 may think what you see on Twitter is one thing. No, no, 1560 01:45:24.239 --> 01:45:26.760 no, no, it works this way. I try to pass those lessons 1561 01:45:26.760 --> 01:45:32.199 along, but not everybody listens nor later. Yeah, but I would even 1562 01:45:32.239 --> 01:45:35.199 say, and not that I'm a mentor to Khalif or whatever, but I 1563 01:45:35.319 --> 01:45:45.840 also think it's very I'm saying that's no. My point is we are peers 1564 01:45:45.039 --> 01:45:47.760 to each other, but you know, we rib each other and have fun 1565 01:45:47.840 --> 01:45:50.840 and all that. But the point is we always try to look out for 1566 01:45:50.920 --> 01:45:54.640 each other, and we're always like you said, you know, hey, 1567 01:45:54.880 --> 01:45:57.399 the secret is everyone's doing that. I'm looking out for my boy, yes, 1568 01:45:57.479 --> 01:46:00.600 exactly all the time. And it's like that. I think that's what 1569 01:46:00.760 --> 01:46:02.479 keeps you know, the right tide lifts all botes, not list a few 1570 01:46:02.520 --> 01:46:05.560 votes around you. That's what you and everyone's doing that. So it's like 1571 01:46:05.840 --> 01:46:08.960 someone needs to get to that point in the first place to start doing that 1572 01:46:09.000 --> 01:46:12.520 and then needs to be a chain reaction. And I think the relationship you 1573 01:46:12.760 --> 01:46:15.119 have online when you ask, you feel like you're trying to be yourselves in 1574 01:46:15.199 --> 01:46:18.439 a way that's like showing the people that they can be themselves exactly. You 1575 01:46:18.439 --> 01:46:21.239 don't have to hide who you are exactly. You're ribbing your friends. That's 1576 01:46:21.279 --> 01:46:24.319 part of it too, and it's good to be that way, right because 1577 01:46:24.319 --> 01:46:27.560 I mean, you know, just just being completely candid here, I mean, 1578 01:46:27.760 --> 01:46:30.800 you know, I've been very fortunate that I've been able to work with 1579 01:46:30.960 --> 01:46:33.319 Xbox, I've hosted events, I've done stuff like that. I don't see 1580 01:46:33.399 --> 01:46:36.359 a lot of other people, you know, Kalief have had the same opportunities, 1581 01:46:36.439 --> 01:46:41.000 And him and I are close in that way because we can kind of 1582 01:46:41.039 --> 01:46:45.159 relate to that and also the same fact that we want to see more people 1583 01:46:45.239 --> 01:46:49.079 of color hosting events and doing things like this. It's not just about me, 1584 01:46:49.199 --> 01:46:53.880 it's not just about Khalif. It's about we want to quote unquote and 1585 01:46:53.920 --> 01:47:00.199 inspire someone else to be able to have that opportunity as well, and not 1586 01:47:00.279 --> 01:47:04.159 happening, not enough anyways, And I don't know what the answer is to 1587 01:47:04.279 --> 01:47:09.680 make that happen. Other than we need more Sarah Bonds in the leadership room, 1588 01:47:09.760 --> 01:47:12.319 right, have a voice that can kind of make stuff like that happen. 1589 01:47:12.399 --> 01:47:14.640 Yeah, it was that's slow, hard. You feel like that's happening, 1590 01:47:14.760 --> 01:47:17.479 But obviously it's happening because people keep pushing, right, You're trying to 1591 01:47:17.479 --> 01:47:20.720 make that happen. Nally, I mentioned sidequesting. Well, before we get 1592 01:47:20.880 --> 01:47:24.159 I just want to chime in real quickly. I mean, I'm on the 1593 01:47:24.319 --> 01:47:29.439 coolest couch. Well, look, get the folks that aren't here. I'm 1594 01:47:29.840 --> 01:47:33.439 i am so Eastern European. I'm I'm Feda. I'm white. Like you 1595 01:47:33.920 --> 01:47:36.399 mentioned something, you and I grew up, you know, kind of in 1596 01:47:36.439 --> 01:47:42.000 that same same area, upper middle class, heavily white, very wit. 1597 01:47:42.119 --> 01:47:46.119 You know there were any immigrants that were Eastern European immigrants. Go, now 1598 01:47:46.199 --> 01:47:50.560 the demographic is starting to change. I'm seeing more and more. You know, 1599 01:47:50.960 --> 01:47:57.119 growing up, it was Nintendo and Sega and EA sports and cover athletes 1600 01:47:57.479 --> 01:48:00.760 and you know, Commando and demand was white. You know, So it's 1601 01:48:01.680 --> 01:48:05.560 that's all we were exposed to the indie space right now, even in Detroit 1602 01:48:05.640 --> 01:48:10.479 area, you know, even guy like this guy right here, the stuff 1603 01:48:10.479 --> 01:48:14.079 that's coming out of folks. I mean Detroit Aeriel Knight had an awesome the 1604 01:48:14.159 --> 01:48:15.560 last couple of years. You know, we've got to kind of see his 1605 01:48:15.840 --> 01:48:21.800 his stuff grow up. For me, as a white dude who lives in 1606 01:48:21.880 --> 01:48:26.199 a who lives in the you know, Midwest, that stuff is inspiring me. 1607 01:48:26.319 --> 01:48:30.600 I am these four dudes right here. They may not know, but 1608 01:48:30.640 --> 01:48:32.720 they're all mentoring me when I follow them online and pick up things, and 1609 01:48:32.760 --> 01:48:34.960 I'm like, oh, you know, I wasn't exposed to this stuff growing 1610 01:48:35.039 --> 01:48:41.319 up. I'm exposed to it now. And I'm yeah, and I'm exposing 1611 01:48:41.399 --> 01:48:44.560 my daughter to it. And my daughter goes to a school that's now much 1612 01:48:44.600 --> 01:48:49.000 more multi ethnic, much more open. They're learning stuff like Minecraft, which 1613 01:48:49.039 --> 01:48:51.720 is baby coating, I guess in a weird way to say. They're learning 1614 01:48:51.720 --> 01:48:55.840 who coding rope blocks. They're into rope block and it's people from all different 1615 01:48:55.880 --> 01:48:59.600 backgrounds in their school. You know, Fortnite. I hate to bring up. 1616 01:48:59.640 --> 01:49:01.439 I mean I've bring up Fortnite because back in the day, we had 1617 01:49:01.479 --> 01:49:04.159 to pay, you know, get to have money to buy video games. 1618 01:49:04.199 --> 01:49:08.840 Otherwise you run it up for Blockbuster and you kept don't tell anybody. But 1619 01:49:09.000 --> 01:49:12.920 now you know, Fortnit's on on this device in my pocket for you now, 1620 01:49:13.079 --> 01:49:15.640 right, and so everybody can play. So there is this great level 1621 01:49:15.720 --> 01:49:20.159 of accessibility to unity, to development tools that's starting to at least at sort 1622 01:49:20.199 --> 01:49:24.600 of this ground level area, starting to level a little bit of that playing 1623 01:49:24.640 --> 01:49:27.640 field. I mean that's why. I mean I thought that would go nicely 1624 01:49:27.680 --> 01:49:30.159 into side questioning, where like, you work with a lot of young writers, 1625 01:49:30.439 --> 01:49:32.520 and I think you do. You are the person I said when someone 1626 01:49:32.520 --> 01:49:34.840 says says, hey, I want to get in the industry, I want 1627 01:49:34.880 --> 01:49:38.239 to like get some bylines, I want to get some experience. Might go 1628 01:49:38.319 --> 01:49:40.720 to Dolly talk to him, and then he's got to get like five thousand 1629 01:49:40.800 --> 01:49:42.920 emails. Yes, And I'm like, you get to your baby. I'm 1630 01:49:42.920 --> 01:49:45.920 like, yeah, it's his problem now, but like if you get in 1631 01:49:45.960 --> 01:49:47.479 there, he'll help you get a lot of people have come from side questing 1632 01:49:47.520 --> 01:49:50.359 and go on to do other writing and other places. It's happened over and 1633 01:49:50.479 --> 01:49:55.760 over again. What's your responsibility in that equation or is it just to provide 1634 01:49:55.880 --> 01:50:00.199 like a home that feels somewhat like a potential jumping back. I like call 1635 01:50:00.239 --> 01:50:02.880 it a home because you know, community, you guys talk about community in 1636 01:50:02.920 --> 01:50:06.720 one of the earlier segments. Community is so important in the industry right now. 1637 01:50:06.840 --> 01:50:10.039 I mean, we have the big Community Award coming up tomorrow night. 1638 01:50:10.119 --> 01:50:14.840 But community within smaller spaces, within groups, within discord, within servers, 1639 01:50:15.159 --> 01:50:16.840 you get a group of people together that start to know each other and start 1640 01:50:16.880 --> 01:50:20.319 to respect each other and bounce ideas off each other. Like whenever you send 1641 01:50:20.359 --> 01:50:23.880 somebody our ray, they'll hop in or we'll be okay, come into the 1642 01:50:23.920 --> 01:50:26.920 discord, post some of your stuff, We'll give you some pointers, We'll 1643 01:50:27.000 --> 01:50:30.119 introduce you to some folks. Here's who you should here's who you should follow, 1644 01:50:30.279 --> 01:50:32.199 you know, online to kind of keep in touch with the gaming information. 1645 01:50:32.399 --> 01:50:36.000 Then like, I'm only doing it because you're a lad fan, you 1646 01:50:36.079 --> 01:50:42.119 know, keep and we beat you the last time. And it's providing people 1647 01:50:42.680 --> 01:50:45.399 home as sort of this small community and family, I think. And then 1648 01:50:45.439 --> 01:50:47.600 once you get to that point, you start to trust other people, right 1649 01:50:47.640 --> 01:50:51.680 you start, okay, I trust police, I trust Graham, I like 1650 01:50:51.760 --> 01:50:55.199 what they're saying, I like what they're writing. I'm understanding things from a 1651 01:50:55.199 --> 01:50:58.000 different perspective. And then that open people up and then you know, then 1652 01:50:58.039 --> 01:51:02.199 they start to write more open and eventually I ended up coming back around to 1653 01:51:02.279 --> 01:51:04.640 you and end up working at a venture places. Yeah. Yeah, they 1654 01:51:04.680 --> 01:51:09.399 happen a couple of times. Yeah, Bream when you got started and you 1655 01:51:09.479 --> 01:51:12.159 were like, Hey, I'm gonna do this game jam and I'm going to 1656 01:51:12.239 --> 01:51:14.920 learn these tools. Maybe they were similar to tools you learned when you're doing 1657 01:51:14.960 --> 01:51:17.800 motion graphics in some ways, but like in terms of like the people resources 1658 01:51:17.880 --> 01:51:21.760 around you, was that there was that available to you. Yeah, thank 1659 01:51:21.920 --> 01:51:28.199 I mean we all hate Twito, no, but I meant but because of 1660 01:51:28.640 --> 01:51:33.359 I had access to everybody, Like I my mentors were like ram Smell, 1661 01:51:33.560 --> 01:51:39.159 Mike, like those like legends for black littletter term and especially around me, 1662 01:51:39.279 --> 01:51:44.119 like I mean Mike too, but like because Rami is from he's not a 1663 01:51:44.199 --> 01:51:47.800 wide developer, you know. And just having these dis questions with these people 1664 01:51:47.840 --> 01:51:51.159 looking up to them and having them kind of guide me through the industry, 1665 01:51:51.399 --> 01:51:57.279 the business side especially, then it's like thank God. Yeah, basically, 1666 01:51:57.279 --> 01:52:00.720 I mean I wouldn't be here for some for Twitter, Yeah, absolutely, 1667 01:52:00.800 --> 01:52:02.920 Yeah made it happen. So now we're here. Yeah, now now we're 1668 01:52:02.960 --> 01:52:06.920 here. Exactly did you find it with people? Not likely Twitter anymore? 1669 01:52:06.960 --> 01:52:11.880 Have you found a way to pass it along. I mean, yeah, 1670 01:52:12.000 --> 01:52:15.760 like so for me, it's even though we don't like you were still all 1671 01:52:15.800 --> 01:52:18.640 on Twitter, but then there's all these all the social media. There's TikTok, 1672 01:52:18.640 --> 01:52:23.439 their threads. I've been trying to unsuccessfully right now, but I've been 1673 01:52:23.479 --> 01:52:26.359 trying to like get my YouTube going. Sure, it's because I want people 1674 01:52:26.399 --> 01:52:30.600 to. It's so strange, like I there's so many popular YouTube channels that 1675 01:52:30.600 --> 01:52:34.279 are faceless, but I feel I feel obligate to show my face just because 1676 01:52:34.359 --> 01:52:38.199 you know, I don't see anybody that's like yeah, and I feel it's 1677 01:52:38.319 --> 01:52:41.720 kind of unfair for me not to do that, which I don't. I 1678 01:52:41.720 --> 01:52:45.159 don't show my face. I mean, did you feel like it's like not 1679 01:52:45.239 --> 01:52:47.000 just your face, like your voice to make an accent. Then that's someone 1680 01:52:47.079 --> 01:52:50.399 I don't hear very often in the video game space. And it's like, 1681 01:52:50.520 --> 01:52:55.600 I think coming out there and putting that out front is important, right. 1682 01:52:55.920 --> 01:53:00.119 That was never for the bit, even when I went to college at some 1683 01:53:00.199 --> 01:53:02.319 friends who would kind of like walter it on accents, But I just make 1684 01:53:02.399 --> 01:53:06.960 people learn to honestas yeah, because I'm not going to change my accent just 1685 01:53:08.000 --> 01:53:11.520 because I'm in a different you know. Yeah, No, that's that's awesome. 1686 01:53:11.680 --> 01:53:15.760 Actually, yeah, that's powerful. I'm ry. Yeah. How are 1687 01:53:15.760 --> 01:53:17.680 you guys feeling otherwise about games this year? Are we feeling like, Nope, 1688 01:53:19.000 --> 01:53:20.960 it could be so up and down. I think that a lot of 1689 01:53:21.000 --> 01:53:25.560 good games getting made, and then we see all the headlines and it feels 1690 01:53:25.640 --> 01:53:28.319 rough and feel like I mean, we talked about a lot tonight, but 1691 01:53:28.399 --> 01:53:31.640 it's like it does feel like the important topic where hey, it is the 1692 01:53:31.680 --> 01:53:34.840 way gaming is heading sustainable? I mean, how do you feel theirs? 1693 01:53:35.000 --> 01:53:40.039 I don't know. And that's that's the scary part is I don't know because 1694 01:53:40.119 --> 01:53:43.359 you want to say yes, obviously, but they're successful, they're selling it 1695 01:53:43.600 --> 01:53:45.000 should be sustainable, right, because because the way I phrase it is, 1696 01:53:45.039 --> 01:53:49.439 I look at twenty twenty three is easily top three best gaming years ever, 1697 01:53:49.560 --> 01:53:53.159 I feel that way, But it's also one of the worst years ever at 1698 01:53:53.159 --> 01:53:57.079 the same time, and we've seen so many incredible games all the way from 1699 01:53:57.119 --> 01:53:59.359 the top of the Triple A all the way down to the indie level. 1700 01:54:00.359 --> 01:54:02.800 But then you see all these mass layoffs are happening, and you know, 1701 01:54:02.880 --> 01:54:05.880 you even mentioned it earlier talking about COVID. There was free money, there 1702 01:54:05.960 --> 01:54:09.560 was all this mass hiring and that is what's happening, and now we're seeing 1703 01:54:09.600 --> 01:54:13.119 the consolidation of it. But is this is this it? Are we going 1704 01:54:13.159 --> 01:54:15.439 to go into twenty twenty four and it's going to stabilize out and now we're 1705 01:54:15.439 --> 01:54:18.199 going to see game you know, so we don't have to worry about this 1706 01:54:18.319 --> 01:54:23.079 happening again or is it just a cycle? That's my worry when I look 1707 01:54:23.479 --> 01:54:26.880 at this. Another thing that I worry about is, you know, we're 1708 01:54:26.920 --> 01:54:30.560 talking about all these great games, and we're talking about diversity from the indie 1709 01:54:30.600 --> 01:54:33.079 level, it's the Triple A level. I'm worried more specifically at the Triple 1710 01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:39.199 A level, more companies playing it safe because they're tightening the while it's like 1711 01:54:40.039 --> 01:54:42.479 like there's an indie game and I'm blanking on the names. They just talk 1712 01:54:42.479 --> 01:54:45.520 about it during the day of the debt. Is today where it's it's drag 1713 01:54:45.640 --> 01:54:48.520 Race, you know, it's like, you know, there's no way in 1714 01:54:48.600 --> 01:54:51.720 hell that's happening at the triple A level. We all know that, but 1715 01:54:53.000 --> 01:54:57.359 thank god there's a game like that. But will a Triple A level game 1716 01:54:57.600 --> 01:55:00.399 company publisher take a risk of something? But in the sense that like we 1717 01:55:00.520 --> 01:55:03.079 were heading in that direction of Overruch was like, Hey, we are going 1718 01:55:03.159 --> 01:55:05.520 to have all this very diverse cast, and we're gonna make a big deal 1719 01:55:05.520 --> 01:55:09.840 about after their sexuality, or at least just put a stick in the ground 1720 01:55:09.840 --> 01:55:12.159 and say this is what it is. Deal with it. And now it's 1721 01:55:12.239 --> 01:55:15.159 like over Roger's got bigger problems than worrying about their characters being diverse. We've 1722 01:55:15.159 --> 01:55:17.119 done to make a game that makes money, and it's like, oh, 1723 01:55:17.680 --> 01:55:20.880 yeah, of course we all get that, but it also feels like, 1724 01:55:21.199 --> 01:55:24.800 why is this the thing we're losing? Why does it feel like we're losing 1725 01:55:24.840 --> 01:55:27.960 this battle? Right? Yeah, it's tough because games aren't intervacuum, right, 1726 01:55:28.079 --> 01:55:32.840 and we're like in a society that rewards certain people more than rewards others. 1727 01:55:32.920 --> 01:55:36.039 And until we have like equity in our society at large, you're not 1728 01:55:36.159 --> 01:55:40.920 going to see this kind of stuff float to the top at the speed I 1729 01:55:40.920 --> 01:55:43.279 think we might want it. It's systemic, so yeah, of course, 1730 01:55:44.199 --> 01:55:47.600 but I think like some of the better stuff maybe that's happening in gaming is 1731 01:55:47.640 --> 01:55:51.159 that there are always like trends that I think people in games probably push back 1732 01:55:51.199 --> 01:55:55.399 on, and I feel like maybe this year it does kind of feel like 1733 01:55:55.479 --> 01:55:59.199 the companies are turning the corner on the live service thing. Oh yeah, 1734 01:56:00.199 --> 01:56:02.560 feel like that's kind of wow. Yeah, turned the corner. I think 1735 01:56:02.600 --> 01:56:05.880 that's our perspective. We away from it. For them, it's a retreat, 1736 01:56:06.399 --> 01:56:10.239 sure, yes, And I think like it's funny. I remember I 1737 01:56:10.359 --> 01:56:13.359 was just thinking about we covered the Batman Arkham game that just came out on 1738 01:56:13.439 --> 01:56:15.840 Switch, right, and like when those games first came out, they were 1739 01:56:15.880 --> 01:56:18.319 some of the biggest, Like I remember getting those season passes, Remember how 1740 01:56:18.319 --> 01:56:21.199 extensive they were, how crazy that was, And we don't do that anymore. 1741 01:56:21.720 --> 01:56:25.600 And it's uh, and you know, there is a funny bringing up 1742 01:56:25.600 --> 01:56:28.920 Batman. There is like a big live service game kind of coming out next 1743 01:56:29.000 --> 01:56:31.000 year. You have suicide question. I actually I actually think that game might 1744 01:56:31.039 --> 01:56:33.600 be good. Oh that's gonna be very fun. I think, yeah, 1745 01:56:33.760 --> 01:56:36.319 yeah, I think that game would be good. But but yeah, it 1746 01:56:36.720 --> 01:56:41.239 does feel like that was something that everybody was chasing for a little while. 1747 01:56:41.479 --> 01:56:45.119 It seemed very attractive, but it also seemed like it was a corporate drive. 1748 01:56:45.239 --> 01:56:46.159 I mean, it felt like it answered a lot of the problems, 1749 01:56:46.399 --> 01:56:48.560 right, Like we talked about this earlier where it's like you know the high 1750 01:56:48.600 --> 01:56:51.319 tight low tide of pre orders, and they're like, it's very hard to 1751 01:56:51.399 --> 01:56:55.800 predict income from these big, massive games that spent all this money on, 1752 01:56:55.920 --> 01:56:59.199 So we have to have other options that can make consistent money, regular things 1753 01:56:59.239 --> 01:57:00.720 that we could predict this game is going to make about that much that month 1754 01:57:00.760 --> 01:57:04.000 when we release this content. We understand that we know the metrics, we 1755 01:57:04.079 --> 01:57:06.399 know how it's going to work. And that was true until we got to 1756 01:57:06.439 --> 01:57:11.760 a certain critical mask of there's too many of these people are are coming back, 1757 01:57:11.800 --> 01:57:14.960 they are retreating themselves after COVID in many ways. So it's like, 1758 01:57:15.039 --> 01:57:20.319 yeah, and I mean, we can't overstate the macroeconomic reality of money is 1759 01:57:20.399 --> 01:57:25.399 more expensive, Like that always goes back to that is affecting everything. It's 1760 01:57:25.479 --> 01:57:30.000 just what are our solutions to this new problem of we're not so sure about 1761 01:57:30.039 --> 01:57:32.560 things? We're not sure? The big thing is like the disconnect from reality 1762 01:57:32.760 --> 01:57:38.079 of these games are very successful, they are selling, they're very good, 1763 01:57:38.520 --> 01:57:41.319 and then we turn around and it's like all these companies seem very scared and 1764 01:57:41.439 --> 01:57:43.960 very skettish of taking risks because well, then you just release a game that 1765 01:57:44.039 --> 01:57:47.359 was Awesomeame Embracer had multiple relatively big hits this year, and there is no 1766 01:57:47.520 --> 01:57:51.640 connection between that and the way they're behaving as a company, because the reality 1767 01:57:51.720 --> 01:57:56.000 is like they were making money for these games and that goes to a pile 1768 01:57:56.039 --> 01:58:00.439 over here, and then really they're paying with the cheap the cheap account that 1769 01:58:00.520 --> 01:58:02.239 they were getting from borrowing money and that's gone, and it's like, well, 1770 01:58:03.600 --> 01:58:05.680 that seems like a bad idea. Why was that the way you're working. 1771 01:58:05.720 --> 01:58:08.800 It's like, because they were, they had a chance to borrow a 1772 01:58:08.840 --> 01:58:12.000 lot of money, make big risks, and that was how you're supposed to 1773 01:58:12.039 --> 01:58:14.960 run your company. And it's like that, maybe things aren't sustainable in a 1774 01:58:15.000 --> 01:58:16.039 lot of ways, but it does seem like it's the game's fault. It's 1775 01:58:16.039 --> 01:58:18.359 like we had the games figured out. There's something else happening. Well, 1776 01:58:18.439 --> 01:58:21.600 but I'm sorry. I was just gonna say the thing that scares me the 1777 01:58:21.680 --> 01:58:24.840 most, like the Bungee news that came out today. You know, how 1778 01:58:24.920 --> 01:58:29.119 much is true not true, But but the thing Rebecca's article that scared me 1779 01:58:29.199 --> 01:58:32.840 the most is the fact that if Bungie was still independent and this was happening, 1780 01:58:33.079 --> 01:58:38.760 Bungie couldn't be going away. That's scary. One of the most legendary 1781 01:58:38.800 --> 01:58:42.399 studios we've ever had, all the games. You know, I've been a 1782 01:58:42.479 --> 01:58:45.840 Destiny guy since day one, and sure I've been in term of trouble jumping 1783 01:58:45.840 --> 01:58:48.520 in that game, is my understanding. So wow, some raids you have 1784 01:58:48.600 --> 01:58:55.159 some issues. I see somebody's been following somebody information. I got sources, 1785 01:58:55.960 --> 01:59:01.399 that's why. Point like, that's a game that I've been playing since twenty 1786 01:59:01.479 --> 01:59:04.479 fourteen. Sure I've slowed down on it too, which obviously is part of 1787 01:59:04.520 --> 01:59:09.760 the issue that they're having. But that's crazy to think that they may have 1788 01:59:09.920 --> 01:59:13.039 had a lull the past few years, right, and that's enough to just 1789 01:59:13.199 --> 01:59:15.600 shutter them. I think that feels I have a hard time understanding. Yeah, 1790 01:59:15.600 --> 01:59:17.199 and I'm sure if I got to look at the books and be like 1791 01:59:17.880 --> 01:59:20.880 okay, but it's like just from the gut check of like, oh, 1792 01:59:21.159 --> 01:59:24.479 this is made one of the biggest games, most successful. Yeah, my 1793 01:59:24.560 --> 01:59:27.760 service games ever. You are literally the experts to the point where Sony is 1794 01:59:27.840 --> 01:59:30.039 buying you for your expertise. Yes, and even you can't figure it out, 1795 01:59:30.039 --> 01:59:32.640 which I think is the real problem of My Service right, No one 1796 01:59:33.279 --> 01:59:38.319 really has it figured out. It is a working process that changes every single 1797 01:59:38.399 --> 01:59:41.119 day. And there's another layer of that too that I've been mulling over a 1798 01:59:41.199 --> 01:59:44.399 lot, which has been the industry layer of it is very important, and 1799 01:59:44.560 --> 01:59:47.239 we need to triple down on the conversation that's happening there because the money is 1800 01:59:47.279 --> 01:59:50.199 not meeting the actual news of the day in that way, like would you 1801 01:59:50.199 --> 01:59:55.680 talk about it, embrace there. But even in the community that live service 1802 01:59:55.760 --> 01:59:58.199 is a dirty word now, yes, yeah, like it is a thing 1803 01:59:58.319 --> 02:00:01.119 now that if you say live service, people freaking out, Yes, and 1804 02:00:01.239 --> 02:00:04.840 they are not excited about your product anymore. I don't know how you re 1805 02:00:05.159 --> 02:00:10.840 educate the audience in that gamers and now, so what I'm saying we are 1806 02:00:10.880 --> 02:00:13.760 the ones educating. We are telling these companies what we will accept. And 1807 02:00:14.399 --> 02:00:15.960 it's gone that the cat is out of the bag, the tooth faces out 1808 02:00:15.960 --> 02:00:18.399 of the tube. There's no fixing it. It is. They're going to 1809 02:00:18.439 --> 02:00:21.960 have to do the next thing. That's what happened with the season passes and 1810 02:00:23.079 --> 02:00:26.640 the ten dollars online passes and all this stuff, and the obviously the loop 1811 02:00:26.680 --> 02:00:30.359 boxes. These things still exist in little pockets here and there, but they're 1812 02:00:30.399 --> 02:00:32.199 clearly no longer the answer the way they were once. Of these companies because 1813 02:00:32.239 --> 02:00:35.399 we got savvy. We understand what's happening to us. We understand how we're 1814 02:00:35.399 --> 02:00:40.199 being manipulated, and it is this continual push and pull that's happening all over 1815 02:00:40.279 --> 02:00:42.960 the place where where they see what they can get away with. It works 1816 02:00:43.000 --> 02:00:44.960 for a little bit, and then we're like, oh, oh, is 1817 02:00:45.000 --> 02:00:47.000 it going to all be like this? No, we can see through what 1818 02:00:47.039 --> 02:00:49.880 you're trying to do with two of us to take our money. Here's our 1819 02:00:49.920 --> 02:00:53.880 answer. No, think you figure something else out. Yeah, well, 1820 02:00:54.000 --> 02:00:58.159 I mean, I'll even say shameless plug. I interviewed three four three today 1821 02:00:58.239 --> 02:01:01.199 talking about Halo Infinite and brought up the battle pass that they've had, because 1822 02:01:01.720 --> 02:01:04.840 while they've had some brilliant ideas with it, they've had some really poor ones 1823 02:01:04.880 --> 02:01:09.319 when it comes to actual pricing and the monetization of it. And it was 1824 02:01:09.640 --> 02:01:12.560 pretty pretty open about it, like, yeah, they got to figure it 1825 02:01:12.600 --> 02:01:15.520 out, they got to listen to the community, they got to be agile 1826 02:01:15.640 --> 02:01:19.920 to change it as needed, because guess what, Halo Infinite lives on monetization 1827 02:01:20.159 --> 02:01:23.640 as a live service. For you to play a game, you have to 1828 02:01:23.760 --> 02:01:26.439 monetize it. But here's a wild thing about that, right in terms of 1829 02:01:26.520 --> 02:01:30.520 that conversation are re educating the audience, right, Halo Infinite has one of 1830 02:01:30.560 --> 02:01:34.159 the better vet past systems gaming that's not good enough And if that's not good 1831 02:01:34.279 --> 02:01:38.039 enough, then I don't know where that lands for folks, because then what 1832 02:01:38.119 --> 02:01:43.680 do you do. There's an intentification happening with like these subscriptions across like most 1833 02:01:43.760 --> 02:01:46.199 industries, right because you see it happening too, where like consumers are being 1834 02:01:46.279 --> 02:01:49.000 taken advantage with things like Netflix, you know what I mean. Sure, 1835 02:01:49.199 --> 02:01:54.079 it's like the service starts to go, Okay, We've we've got the audience 1836 02:01:54.119 --> 02:01:57.279 that we have, We've saturated the market in a way. Now we have 1837 02:01:57.319 --> 02:01:59.920 to figure out how we're going to make more money off of these people. 1838 02:02:00.119 --> 02:02:02.840 PlayStation Plus goes up. You know, the amount of the same product you're 1839 02:02:02.880 --> 02:02:05.680 now you're paying more for it. And I feel like that is kind of 1840 02:02:05.840 --> 02:02:10.399 like inherently connected to the way that these live service games work, right, 1841 02:02:10.760 --> 02:02:13.199 because you have that captive audience and it's like, Okay, how are we 1842 02:02:13.199 --> 02:02:15.000 going to get more out of these people? Yeah, it's it's a little 1843 02:02:15.000 --> 02:02:17.159 bit. I mean, I got my face eating on Twitter the other day 1844 02:02:17.199 --> 02:02:20.000 because I was like, there's a part of this equation that is also on 1845 02:02:20.119 --> 02:02:24.880 the consumer sure to say I don't need to be in this space and do 1846 02:02:25.039 --> 02:02:28.640 this now man, and people get mad at you when i's a stream of 1847 02:02:29.239 --> 02:02:31.399 making consumers realize their place in the market. Maybe like I think about it 1848 02:02:31.439 --> 02:02:33.439 all the time, but I'm who my game as mornings. That's that they 1849 02:02:33.479 --> 02:02:36.680 don't like, I'm not gonna I can't say it the way you said it 1850 02:02:36.760 --> 02:02:40.119 right, you will get your face eating. So you have to like subtly 1851 02:02:40.159 --> 02:02:44.560 suggest our behaviors have an effect. And I always make it clear it's the 1852 02:02:44.600 --> 02:02:47.319 system we are for sure, these things are symptoms of the system that we're 1853 02:02:47.439 --> 02:02:50.119 in that we had no we didn't never signed off on it, we never 1854 02:02:50.159 --> 02:02:54.439 agreed to it. We were born into it. But let's still recognize that 1855 02:02:54.520 --> 02:02:57.399 our behaviors affect these companies and what the way they do things. But isn't 1856 02:02:57.479 --> 02:03:00.039 part of the issue. And this isn't just live service, just gaming as 1857 02:03:00.079 --> 02:03:03.880 a whole as it lives today at the triple A level. I'm talking more 1858 02:03:03.920 --> 02:03:09.920 specifically. These games cost so freaking much to make right, takes so long, 1859 02:03:10.039 --> 02:03:12.640 and it's like in development, the money, it's about the risk and 1860 02:03:12.680 --> 02:03:15.680 now right right that's what we're talking about, right, Yeah, do you 1861 02:03:15.720 --> 02:03:18.720 guys feel I'm curious what this panel thinks about this. I've been wondering now 1862 02:03:18.800 --> 02:03:23.479 if like the desperation to have a big hit because you have a studio like 1863 02:03:23.640 --> 02:03:26.720 Larian right who it's like a kind of a model to look at. But 1864 02:03:26.800 --> 02:03:29.079 if that doesn't work out the way they want it to work out, They're 1865 02:03:29.359 --> 02:03:32.119 they're gone. So I wonder if there is kind of a reflex there now 1866 02:03:32.279 --> 02:03:34.479 to play it safe with the kind of games that will come out in the 1867 02:03:34.560 --> 02:03:38.000 PA. But see, that goes back to what I was saying earlier, 1868 02:03:38.119 --> 02:03:40.720 Like I'm just going to take as an example. I don't think they're completely 1869 02:03:40.800 --> 02:03:44.640 gone, but Carlyysto Protocol as an example, right, we all had super 1870 02:03:44.720 --> 02:03:46.680 high hopes for it. Clearly didn't sell the way that it should. Mortals 1871 02:03:46.720 --> 02:03:50.000 of Avian is it's another one where expensive to make, great idea, very 1872 02:03:50.039 --> 02:03:56.159 expensive to make, and you've seen mass layoffs scale back significantly. I think 1873 02:03:56.199 --> 02:03:59.319 of one. Oh my god, I'm blanking on the name now because he's 1874 02:03:59.399 --> 02:04:02.439 a he's at Marcus Ledo, he's at EA now his studio, right, 1875 02:04:02.600 --> 02:04:06.880 God, why can't I think in the name of the Yeah, that game 1876 02:04:06.960 --> 02:04:11.000 came out during during the height of the pandemic, like in the summer, 1877 02:04:11.800 --> 02:04:14.920 nobody played it. That studio gone. Well. That's the thing though, 1878 02:04:14.960 --> 02:04:18.600 too, is like the window of opportunities to stay in the mix, yeah, 1879 02:04:18.840 --> 02:04:21.119 is infinitely small. And it's so hard to predict. I mean, 1880 02:04:21.239 --> 02:04:25.520 what we say hit dripped business. I also people like recognize fully what that 1881 02:04:25.840 --> 02:04:29.039 entails. It is it's a hit droom business. And we say that because 1882 02:04:29.039 --> 02:04:30.439 we don't know what's going to be a hit, right. It's so hard 1883 02:04:30.479 --> 02:04:33.760 to predict and and and even like the ones who were like mortals, a 1884 02:04:33.800 --> 02:04:38.800 vague on paper should be able to make someone phone right, right, But 1885 02:04:38.920 --> 02:04:42.479 it's like I just got uh, you know, there was bad marketing, 1886 02:04:42.600 --> 02:04:45.359 there was a hard position the name. You don't really know. Plenty of 1887 02:04:45.399 --> 02:04:48.000 games had names that are shitty and have done just fine. So it's like 1888 02:04:48.600 --> 02:05:00.720 your bullet most of the Kingdom hearts games. So yeah, no over two 1889 02:05:00.800 --> 02:05:06.039 days makes perfect. You just don't know the war. But there's also sets 1890 02:05:06.079 --> 02:05:11.760 of game shock right now because there's so many games coming out right, I 1891 02:05:11.800 --> 02:05:15.640 can guarantee you guys, every one of our top five, our top ten 1892 02:05:15.760 --> 02:05:17.640 is going to be completely different. You may have one, maybe two games 1893 02:05:17.680 --> 02:05:25.840 that we loved that are the same this year. But because this is how 1894 02:05:25.880 --> 02:05:29.079 many folks are going to have, like Dredge in their top five, there's 1895 02:05:29.079 --> 02:05:31.720 gonna be a lot of yeah. And so there were so many games this 1896 02:05:31.840 --> 02:05:33.800 year. I think a lot of people were like, I don't even know 1897 02:05:33.840 --> 02:05:38.720 what you know what? People go back to Final Fantasy remake because I'm safe 1898 02:05:38.840 --> 02:05:42.560 and I'll wait till things shake out. That from the from the player aspect, 1899 02:05:42.640 --> 02:05:45.600 but from from my aspect of I was I was in shock this year. 1900 02:05:45.720 --> 02:05:49.119 Like Baller's Gate three, Starfield, I just now started playing Starfield because 1901 02:05:49.159 --> 02:05:55.439 I'm finally over Balder's Gay three and I'm still not play Balls three. But 1902 02:05:58.439 --> 02:06:00.279 that's the point you're like, Okay, what do I do now? I'm 1903 02:06:00.279 --> 02:06:02.520 missing? You know, my backlog is through the roof, especially as someone 1904 02:06:02.560 --> 02:06:08.279 who's you know, a lot of us gamers grew from the teens to those 1905 02:06:08.319 --> 02:06:11.479 of us who are in our thirties and forties and fifties who don't have the 1906 02:06:11.560 --> 02:06:13.840 time like we used to anymore, and I think that could be a part 1907 02:06:13.880 --> 02:06:21.239 of it. I don't get Parson just joking, Buddy, wearing those media 1908 02:06:21.600 --> 02:06:27.800 for a reason age, but even something like as huge as Zelousers in the 1909 02:06:27.880 --> 02:06:30.279 Kingdom, I think I was surprised. How I don't think that game had 1910 02:06:30.319 --> 02:06:32.800 the legs that I was expecting it to have in the zeitgeist, I think. 1911 02:06:33.319 --> 02:06:36.239 I mean, so it's like it is, I say this all the 1912 02:06:36.279 --> 02:06:39.720 time and on my shows, but I'm gonna repeat it. Like, there's 1913 02:06:39.800 --> 02:06:42.760 this thing where all the Mattress stores are on the same corner. There's three 1914 02:06:42.760 --> 02:06:44.800 Matches stores right at each other, Like, what's going on there? They 1915 02:06:44.840 --> 02:06:46.720 wandering money? It's like, no, it turns out that's actually good business. 1916 02:06:47.079 --> 02:06:49.199 When you put all the cardioships next to each other. There's a diamond 1917 02:06:49.239 --> 02:06:51.520 district in the city. You put all the same things right next to each 1918 02:06:51.560 --> 02:06:55.520 other, because it turns out every single all those businesses make more money. 1919 02:06:56.239 --> 02:06:59.840 Obviously, though there is a limit to that. Those stores figured out there's 1920 02:06:59.840 --> 02:07:01.640 two Matters stores, there's not seventy Matters stores right next to each other. 1921 02:07:01.760 --> 02:07:03.760 And we're at a point where it's like, oh no, in video gaming, 1922 02:07:03.920 --> 02:07:08.119 there are seventy Mattress stores next to each other, and someone's gonna fall 1923 02:07:08.199 --> 02:07:11.680 off and it gets work. And this is the thing that publishers can't account 1924 02:07:11.680 --> 02:07:15.119 for how are gamers feeling about their budgets and stuff like that. They just 1925 02:07:15.359 --> 02:07:18.039 they're operating on timelines that are five or six years or that can't even enter 1926 02:07:18.399 --> 02:07:23.039 the conversation. And you're and you're moving on timelines that have already moved, 1927 02:07:23.159 --> 02:07:26.119 right. So, like the conversation around games that are now being made or 1928 02:07:26.279 --> 02:07:29.600 started were made a couple of years ago that were starting to jump off that 1929 02:07:29.720 --> 02:07:33.000 live service model, that model has already shifted, yep. So like when 1930 02:07:33.039 --> 02:07:35.520 those games wind up coming out, what does that mean for those games on 1931 02:07:35.640 --> 02:07:39.640 launch? And what does that mean for the conversations that This is why, 1932 02:07:40.079 --> 02:07:43.520 this is why you see rock Steady and Warner Brothers getting out ahead with Suicide 1933 02:07:43.560 --> 02:07:46.279 Squad. Hey, here play it right now. We're gonna have you know, 1934 02:07:46.560 --> 02:07:49.920 videos with the Dead's talking about it, you know, because they want 1935 02:07:50.039 --> 02:07:54.159 to change that narrative. So I think we touched on a lot of points 1936 02:07:54.159 --> 02:07:57.680 and we're gonna wrap it up soon. But I mean sustainable like something. 1937 02:07:57.760 --> 02:08:00.760 If it does feel like that, maybe someone's gonna break. But I think 1938 02:08:00.960 --> 02:08:05.000 the underlying health of the industry actually is pretty good. But there is at 1939 02:08:05.079 --> 02:08:07.199 the highest level it feels like, man, there's room for Rocks starting to 1940 02:08:07.199 --> 02:08:11.720 make a three hundred million dollar game and then everyone's is everyone not gonna have 1941 02:08:11.720 --> 02:08:13.680 to compete with that? That seems impossible? Go ahead. I'm sorry, 1942 02:08:15.199 --> 02:08:18.800 you know, I'm gonna say I mean indies, and I know there's really 1943 02:08:18.880 --> 02:08:22.399 no double A game publishers as much as they used to, but you're seeing 1944 02:08:22.439 --> 02:08:24.199 the Indian kind of level. I hate, you know, we say rising 1945 02:08:24.319 --> 02:08:30.239 type, but the indies really are helping bring a lot of great new experiences 1946 02:08:30.399 --> 02:08:33.680 to you know, to the medium it was supposed to. Yeah, it's 1947 02:08:35.479 --> 02:08:37.720 it. There's less of a risk for I mean there's more risk for an 1948 02:08:37.760 --> 02:08:41.399 individual and small teams on an indie, but there's less of a risk. 1949 02:08:41.399 --> 02:08:43.960 But in places like America where they want health insist exactly, so you know 1950 02:08:45.199 --> 02:08:48.000 there, you know, I feel like there's to me, the the industry's 1951 02:08:48.079 --> 02:08:52.199 hit this point where it's so big right now that it's caught up to being 1952 02:08:52.279 --> 02:08:54.680 as big and as nasty as every other giant industry out there. And it's 1953 02:08:54.720 --> 02:08:56.560 like, I hate to say it, get used to it because this is 1954 02:08:56.600 --> 02:08:58.880 the way it's going to be for a long time, But get used to 1955 02:08:58.880 --> 02:09:03.399 it. But at the same time, there's incredible optimism with that because the 1956 02:09:03.479 --> 02:09:07.520 industry is so big. It's like, now we've got awesome indies coming, 1957 02:09:07.560 --> 02:09:11.800 we got do have great Triple A games coming. Just sucks that we have 1958 02:09:11.880 --> 02:09:16.520 people losing jobs, but the actual end product is fantastic. Yeah. I 1959 02:09:16.720 --> 02:09:20.399 think the point of positivity that I have is that the next billion dollar game 1960 02:09:20.399 --> 02:09:22.560 And this is another thing I say all the time will come out of nowhere, 1961 02:09:22.640 --> 02:09:26.439 and that doesn't happen, that doesn't happen in other industries. You know, 1962 02:09:26.479 --> 02:09:30.399 we got Lethal what it was, Lethal League Legal Company, Yes, 1963 02:09:30.479 --> 02:09:31.640 thank you, lease the company happening right now. So I have a touch 1964 02:09:31.680 --> 02:09:35.920 biggest thing on Steam out of nowhere that does not happen in another game. 1965 02:09:35.520 --> 02:09:39.199 The best analogy I have with that is and whatever year E three this was. 1966 02:09:39.279 --> 02:09:43.039 I remember E three were literally because I knew the guys at Epic were 1967 02:09:43.119 --> 02:09:46.880 like not begging, but like, hey, will you please come up into 1968 02:09:46.880 --> 02:09:50.000 our meeting room and see this Fortnite game that we're making. And literally the 1969 02:09:50.039 --> 02:09:54.640 next year I had a big all right, well we're gonna get out of 1970 02:09:54.680 --> 02:09:58.279 here for this one. We'll be back with another panel about fifteen minutes. 1971 02:09:58.680 --> 02:10:13.960 Thanks boys, really appreciate it. Good, great conversation. Welcome back to 1972 02:10:13.039 --> 02:10:16.640 John Bomb at Night Live in Los Angeles for our game to the year spectacular. 1973 02:10:16.960 --> 02:10:20.720 It's gonna culminate this weekend. Be sure to tune in. We're brought 1974 02:10:20.720 --> 02:10:22.359 to you by Like a Dragon Infinite. Well, thank you to them, 1975 02:10:24.199 --> 02:10:26.039 Thank you to my guests. You're joining me my next panel. All my 1976 02:10:26.199 --> 02:10:31.239 good friends are here. Shannon Law, you're back six months. Every six 1977 02:10:31.279 --> 02:10:33.720 months, We're gonna make this happen. Amazing. I love to see it. 1978 02:10:33.960 --> 02:10:35.640 Thanks for having me absolutely, Thanks for coming. Then, Star once 1979 02:10:35.720 --> 02:10:39.960 again, kind of once again, once again, want to make you make 1980 02:10:41.000 --> 02:10:48.079 it sound like I'm a rash again annoying, lovely to be here, Jeff, 1981 02:10:48.079 --> 02:10:48.920 thank you so much for making me feel welcome. Yeah, sure, 1982 02:10:52.680 --> 02:10:56.119 Red forwards here though. I'm very excited about you. That's great. More 1983 02:10:56.159 --> 02:10:58.960 excited than Ben's great. Great, that's all. That's my bar. It's 1984 02:10:58.039 --> 02:11:01.159 like, that's great. I'm so excited to be here. This is the 1985 02:11:01.239 --> 02:11:07.880 best. Harris Ferris, that's me. Here's Harris Fortnite. I believe it's 1986 02:11:07.880 --> 02:11:15.800 actually the road game play now season five is really good. It is, 1987 02:11:16.159 --> 02:11:20.520 Yeah, it's really good. It cuts this right now yeah, that's romantic. 1988 02:11:20.199 --> 02:11:28.359 This is so high it is. Oh, speaking of the trains in 1989 02:11:28.439 --> 02:11:31.920 Fortnite. So here, Nelson Junior, how you doing? I'm doing great? 1990 02:11:33.640 --> 02:11:35.760 You wanting this? Man, I'm glad to make this happen, glad 1991 02:11:35.760 --> 02:11:39.359 to be here. Absolutely, And raymy Benson, how's going? I am 1992 02:11:39.359 --> 02:11:43.680 also a rash all. Yeah, doing great things. I mean I didn't 1993 02:11:43.680 --> 02:11:48.920 turn it off. Is it working? We don't know it's on, but 1994 02:11:48.000 --> 02:11:52.720 it's dead again. Okay, you're gonna have to. We just changed the 1995 02:11:52.760 --> 02:11:58.239 batteries too, so have you turn Is there a battery still shortage in America? 1996 02:11:58.159 --> 02:12:01.079 Yes? Yeah, As a Canadian, we have a lot of batteries. 1997 02:12:01.479 --> 02:12:07.960 You know, we love batteries. Tell us more about those. I 1998 02:12:09.039 --> 02:12:13.640 know. That's what I'm saying. You can't tell the American audience that you 1999 02:12:13.680 --> 02:12:18.479 have an excess of recent I have just caused for you Canadian here. I 2000 02:12:18.560 --> 02:12:22.199 am worked in defense. He'll send the missiles after you. Better be careful. 2001 02:12:22.239 --> 02:12:26.960 Absolutely, you've got a new job, right, Yes, I so 2002 02:12:28.119 --> 02:12:31.039 last time I was here, I was, you know, looking and freelancing. 2003 02:12:31.079 --> 02:12:35.640 And yes I am now the w gaming editor at Inverse. Yeah. 2004 02:12:37.840 --> 02:12:41.279 Yes, it means like some of the freelancers in there and around are now 2005 02:12:41.359 --> 02:12:43.520 working for me. So it's goods cool, it's a good time. Yeah. 2006 02:12:43.600 --> 02:12:46.279 I mean, what's it been like kind of like transitioning into this position 2007 02:12:46.359 --> 02:12:50.720 of power. Yeah yeah, I'm usually trying to be more humble than that. 2008 02:12:50.039 --> 02:12:54.239 Yeah, okay, okay, well yeah, I know it's pretty too 2009 02:12:54.319 --> 02:12:58.000 late for me now. I like it's good to like support writers and like 2010 02:12:58.079 --> 02:13:03.319 work on the reporting skills and kind of like mentor them and just like further 2011 02:13:03.760 --> 02:13:07.279 along the art of like writing about the craft of making video games rather than 2012 02:13:07.920 --> 02:13:11.960 previously I was just like out there reporting and talking to people. Now do 2013 02:13:11.159 --> 02:13:15.600 a combination of things. It's fun. What's the what's the like sort of 2014 02:13:15.640 --> 02:13:18.479 the balance in terms of skills that are required to do that different kind of 2015 02:13:18.520 --> 02:13:22.680 reporting. Yeah, it's just like going to a lot of meetings with a 2016 02:13:22.760 --> 02:13:24.520 lot of other people at the company and so they all get to meet me, 2017 02:13:24.640 --> 02:13:28.680 and then just like doing as many calls as possible to squeezing everything in. 2018 02:13:30.199 --> 02:13:35.439 So I'm going to see all the top publishers and councilmakers tomorrow hopefully. 2019 02:13:35.079 --> 02:13:41.319 But it's like just sitting at the GW Marriott lobby basically for like hours in 2020 02:13:41.399 --> 02:13:46.560 coffee meetings is what my life is now. Ben Are you upset with Taylor 2021 02:13:46.600 --> 02:13:50.880 Swift for taking your spot as Person of the Year? Are you setting me 2022 02:13:50.960 --> 02:13:56.359 up on like a lot of Swifties? Actually I just watched Miss American and 2023 02:13:56.439 --> 02:13:58.520 he's a great documentary. Would watch Is she's a national trashy of course? 2024 02:14:00.199 --> 02:14:01.439 Treasure? Yeah, no, it's it's it's a real show. It's always 2025 02:14:01.479 --> 02:14:05.399 been between me and Taylor. But you know, she just shifted a few 2026 02:14:05.439 --> 02:14:09.000 more records than I did. It's been a good year though, right, 2027 02:14:09.079 --> 02:14:13.079 Like Vince Starr, you you know what you're doing? Yeah right, yeah, 2028 02:14:13.199 --> 02:14:18.159 Like people like you have a presence online that is beyond charming and people 2029 02:14:18.239 --> 02:14:20.920 love it. Was it something that you are consciously crafting or is it like, 2030 02:14:22.000 --> 02:14:24.399 no, I'm having fun, I'm having fun. Yeah, Like it's 2031 02:14:24.840 --> 02:14:28.119 I've kind of described my relationship with the Internet as like like an English pantomime 2032 02:14:28.439 --> 02:14:33.720 where like I play So I play a very serious character in Final Fantasy sixteen. 2033 02:14:33.720 --> 02:14:37.079 That's the platform in which people have come to know me. But I'm 2034 02:14:37.079 --> 02:14:39.920 not a very serious person and I enjoy the play. And so I found 2035 02:14:41.720 --> 02:14:45.399 like Twitter in particular to be this amazing. That's not an amazing place, 2036 02:14:46.039 --> 02:14:50.680 an awful, awful place, but I describe it. It's like it's a 2037 02:14:50.720 --> 02:14:54.479 burning building that I'm having a house party in. And I've loved the kind 2038 02:14:54.479 --> 02:14:56.880 of the call and response. You put stuff out to the audience like it, 2039 02:14:56.000 --> 02:15:00.399 do they not? And it's been amazing to see how many fans of 2040 02:15:00.439 --> 02:15:03.600 the games and people who don't even play Final Fancy come and enjoy it. 2041 02:15:03.640 --> 02:15:07.000 And I love being an idiot, like it was quite a risk pretending to 2042 02:15:07.079 --> 02:15:09.600 be Mario, do you know what I mean? But people still think that 2043 02:15:09.680 --> 02:15:11.119 maybe I might be in with a shot. I'm not in with a shot. 2044 02:15:13.079 --> 02:15:15.680 It's it's great. I love it, and I love being silly. 2045 02:15:15.720 --> 02:15:18.720 I love being a goof, and it's it's a cool thing that people are 2046 02:15:18.800 --> 02:15:22.880 enjoying it. Is it? Do you get like a long leach? Because 2047 02:15:22.199 --> 02:15:24.000 in a lot of ways was early on it was like, well this has 2048 02:15:24.039 --> 02:15:28.920 been start representing Final Fantasy. Yeah, the squirtings there be like what are 2049 02:15:28.960 --> 02:15:31.720 you doing out there? Like no, it's no squirrest mind, like they 2050 02:15:33.319 --> 02:15:35.760 can see that. As I think I may have said this in the last 2051 02:15:35.760 --> 02:15:39.680 time I was here. As long as they don't mind that I ruined the 2052 02:15:39.760 --> 02:15:43.600 brand, you know, And I'm not going out and I'm not trying to 2053 02:15:43.680 --> 02:15:46.199 go and be canceled, and I'm not going to try and do anything that's 2054 02:15:46.279 --> 02:15:52.800 massively extreme or very controversial. I'm just being myself. And like, I 2055 02:15:52.039 --> 02:15:56.600 don't think I've got any skeletons in my closet, please don't look. But 2056 02:15:56.720 --> 02:16:01.880 it's yeah, they've been. They've been really really amazing, and I'm thankful 2057 02:16:01.039 --> 02:16:03.800 that they let me do it, but also maybe they don't have to because 2058 02:16:03.920 --> 02:16:07.960 it's not like I'm going around being like I'm Clive, even when those skits 2059 02:16:07.960 --> 02:16:11.880 where I am Clive, but it's it's cool. There was one where I 2060 02:16:13.199 --> 02:16:18.600 did a sketch with Doug Cockle, who plays GARYL of Rivia, and so 2061 02:16:18.720 --> 02:16:24.159 it's Clive and GARYL take the same contract and then they go out so stupid 2062 02:16:24.479 --> 02:16:28.560 and I and I and I sent it to Doug and he went, that's 2063 02:16:28.640 --> 02:16:31.600 cool. Maybe I can't do this bit and I went, no, you 2064 02:16:31.760 --> 02:16:35.479 can't. But then he added in a bit where he like licks his own 2065 02:16:35.639 --> 02:16:39.239 sword and he went and he went, don't put that in, And I 2066 02:16:39.319 --> 02:16:43.479 put it, of course, and it is great, Like it's really really 2067 02:16:43.920 --> 02:16:46.159 some slash fick about that before. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 2068 02:16:46.440 --> 02:16:48.639 But like Doug when when we did the sketch with Geryl, like he just 2069 02:16:48.719 --> 02:16:52.479 had all you know, he's been Geryl for years, so he has all 2070 02:16:52.600 --> 02:16:56.360 the witcher gear. So he like pulled out like these th these two procer 2071 02:16:56.520 --> 02:17:00.399 replica Witcher's swords. He had like all of this stuff. And whenever I 2072 02:17:00.479 --> 02:17:03.520 get someone to do these stupid sketches, I'll say, can you give me 2073 02:17:03.719 --> 02:17:07.440 like twelve minutes of raw footage, Like give me all the different versions of 2074 02:17:07.479 --> 02:17:09.719 this line so we can play around with it and just improv around it. 2075 02:17:09.799 --> 02:17:13.959 And Doug gave me some gold. There are twelve minutes of Doug Cockle doing 2076 02:17:13.040 --> 02:17:18.239 some girl stuff that should not be on the internet. And it's it's fun 2077 02:17:18.360 --> 02:17:22.200 and I think people have seen that. It's play and I love playing. 2078 02:17:22.399 --> 02:17:24.159 Yeah, once you have all this power, are you going to use it 2079 02:17:24.200 --> 02:17:28.879 to get revenge on Remedy for miscrediting you in Quantum Break? But they got 2080 02:17:28.879 --> 02:17:31.319 people single art with a single art. Yeah, so it was a mistake. 2081 02:17:31.360 --> 02:17:37.280 It spelled wrong. Yeah, so we like to credit ourselves today to 2082 02:17:37.319 --> 02:17:39.559 make sure y. Yeah, no, I'm going to hunt some leg down 2083 02:17:39.600 --> 02:17:41.799 at the game was going to be here. No. I spoke to him 2084 02:17:41.799 --> 02:17:43.799 earlier and just was very sick a fantic and like, yes, sir, 2085 02:17:43.879 --> 02:17:48.120 you're but yeah, my first of a job I did was Quantum Break and 2086 02:17:48.120 --> 02:17:50.639 it was like additional voices in Quantum Break, and yeah, they credited. 2087 02:17:50.760 --> 02:17:54.639 It's the only credit of my IMDb that is, my name is spelt wrong, 2088 02:17:54.920 --> 02:17:58.760 so it's as dark as been start it for Quantum Break, I thought, 2089 02:17:58.879 --> 02:18:01.799 no, I'm going to spell my wrong, like I prefer it's spelled 2090 02:18:01.799 --> 02:18:03.920 incorrectly this time. And I'm like, I'm pretty sure they just miss misspelled 2091 02:18:03.920 --> 02:18:07.040 it. But I'm like, what they say it as Ben Stars this other 2092 02:18:07.159 --> 02:18:11.600 stage name probably not to be honest. They're knowing the Remedy Verse and how 2093 02:18:11.680 --> 02:18:13.040 deep it goes. You know they're going to bring that back. It's going 2094 02:18:13.079 --> 02:18:16.399 to be a whole thing. Yeah, it's just like you possessed by a 2095 02:18:16.520 --> 02:18:20.520 dark presence. We're playing the long game with that. Yeah. Yeah to 2096 02:18:20.600 --> 02:18:24.520 me in control to confirmed with one R. We need you on inverse dot 2097 02:18:24.559 --> 02:18:26.280 com for that. We need to talking about I'll do it. Yeah, 2098 02:18:26.280 --> 02:18:28.639 great, well business dealing, Yeah, it happens. We're here on the 2099 02:18:28.680 --> 02:18:33.600 couch red Ford's because of people who just gained more and more power. Oh 2100 02:18:33.079 --> 02:18:37.000 is this my legacy? Accumulate power? Okay, you know, I mean 2101 02:18:37.520 --> 02:18:43.200 I really know you just you keep like ascending and it seems like it's working 2102 02:18:43.239 --> 02:18:46.000 out. How are you feeling about it? The ascension has you know that 2103 02:18:46.079 --> 02:18:48.319 airs a little thinner up here. But you know, this ascension hasn't been 2104 02:18:48.360 --> 02:18:52.079 great for a two levels. But it's been fun. It's been you know, 2105 02:18:52.120 --> 02:18:54.520 a lot of people trusted me with some pretty cool things. And now 2106 02:18:54.760 --> 02:18:56.879 I actually, you know, caught up with Ben and now he's in warfame, 2107 02:18:58.079 --> 02:19:01.239 so that's pretty cool to No, actually, no, r, it's 2108 02:19:01.280 --> 02:19:05.639 just been stuff I take. I have two rs in my name. As 2109 02:19:05.680 --> 02:19:11.879 I'm growing more power, I can't share those ours. Exactly. It's like 2110 02:19:11.959 --> 02:19:15.159 a fous team pact. It's like you can be in the game, but 2111 02:19:15.280 --> 02:19:18.120 I take the exactly. It's a sacrifice. We almost the alphabet comes to 2112 02:19:18.200 --> 02:19:22.040 collect from all of us. So yeah, well sure, you guys have 2113 02:19:22.120 --> 02:19:26.079 had a long over digital streams. Yeah, ye, yeah, oh yeah. 2114 02:19:26.120 --> 02:19:28.120 I work on war frames. Yeah, that's my job. And you 2115 02:19:28.280 --> 02:19:33.200 have a long history of showing up. The Game of War was like working 2116 02:19:33.239 --> 02:19:37.000 with Jeff and like get in that show he's Canadian, so like every now 2117 02:19:37.040 --> 02:19:39.959 and then it's like who's gonna who's gonna be the Canadian up there with me? 2118 02:19:39.159 --> 02:19:43.840 So it's it's you know, it's just like we do our they do, 2119 02:19:43.159 --> 02:19:46.000 they really do. And you know, we always have tried to do 2120 02:19:46.159 --> 02:19:48.959 our own warframes thing, and the game Wars has always been a really good 2121 02:19:48.959 --> 02:19:52.639 spot for us because we typically it takes us a whole year to make an 2122 02:19:52.719 --> 02:19:54.840 update and then you know, it's December, so we were like, well 2123 02:19:54.840 --> 02:19:56.760 we could promoter update at the Game Awards. So we usually just show up, 2124 02:19:58.000 --> 02:20:00.719 say a word or two about what we're at atually working on, and 2125 02:20:00.840 --> 02:20:03.840 then next thing, you know, Jeffy will bring us on stage, which 2126 02:20:03.239 --> 02:20:07.159 may or may not know it is happening tomorrow. You'll see us tomorrow at 2127 02:20:07.200 --> 02:20:09.360 the game boards. I think that's like you guys can say like yeah, 2128 02:20:09.760 --> 02:20:11.760 yeah, oh yeah, we're on stage then, you know, so we'll 2129 02:20:11.760 --> 02:20:13.680 be there on People aren't going to want to miss it, right, I 2130 02:20:13.799 --> 02:20:20.920 would imagine they'd be fools to miss there. Yeah, I'll look for everyone 2131 02:20:20.000 --> 02:20:22.799 in the crowd or the digital crowd. Is it the woman igno? The 2132 02:20:22.840 --> 02:20:28.319 whole thing. You can't you just take a drink the whole time. Just 2133 02:20:28.600 --> 02:20:33.280 make make a lot of Yeah, Like, I'm so glad working is not 2134 02:20:33.319 --> 02:20:37.040 nominated for anything. You can just he nominate if it's funny. Well you 2135 02:20:37.159 --> 02:20:41.920 are not us doesn't intend. What I'm hearing is you're going to steal the 2136 02:20:41.920 --> 02:20:46.399 alphabet from it. That's right. We are letter takers. That's it's like 2137 02:20:46.479 --> 02:20:50.520 an undertaker, but only for sounds like a wool frame expansion. The letter 2138 02:20:50.600 --> 02:20:54.280 takers. The business is being business is being done. Yeah, what's it? 2139 02:20:54.520 --> 02:20:56.239 What's it actually like day to day? Like when it's rehearsals and like 2140 02:20:56.319 --> 02:21:00.280 going up on stage and having a limited amount of time, Like is it 2141 02:21:00.360 --> 02:21:01.600 stressful or is it? Yeah, I'm screwed up. Every year it's been 2142 02:21:01.600 --> 02:21:05.040 awesome, so I haven't left. Every year I make some type of egregious 2143 02:21:05.120 --> 02:21:09.280 error, so I'm sure tomorrow will be no different. Did you? Is 2144 02:21:09.319 --> 02:21:11.159 it, Brilli? An error? Is this something only you notice? Well, 2145 02:21:11.239 --> 02:21:13.840 if you ask our community, I call them losers. The one year, 2146 02:21:16.600 --> 02:21:22.200 this is a real problem. When the first number one, I don't 2147 02:21:22.280 --> 02:21:30.120 understand. I was so nervous and I was like fucking morons. No, 2148 02:21:33.239 --> 02:21:35.360 no, I said, my PR person told me, I have to tell 2149 02:21:35.399 --> 02:21:41.680 the world, there's twenty six million registered users of war for In, I 2150 02:21:41.719 --> 02:21:46.040 said, we have twenty six million registered losers. And I remember this is 2151 02:21:46.079 --> 02:21:50.159 my first This was twenty sixteen, so I was about a fledgling and that 2152 02:21:50.319 --> 02:21:54.040 has not left the community for quite little's such a T shirt though, I 2153 02:21:54.200 --> 02:21:56.879 want a loser T shirt. The next day, like, I embraced it, 2154 02:21:58.399 --> 02:22:03.440 So you had it ready knew that the next dev stream, which to 2155 02:22:03.520 --> 02:22:05.079 me, I was measured in dev streams because I have no life outside my 2156 02:22:05.159 --> 02:22:09.520 job. So yeah, I had. I had a loser shirt added to 2157 02:22:09.600 --> 02:22:11.680 my wardrobe about him. A couple of days that video got recommended to me. 2158 02:22:13.159 --> 02:22:15.879 You know, there was Aiden Can Literally there's like a six minute clip 2159 02:22:15.920 --> 02:22:18.840 of six second clip if you're just saying that just because I've been like, 2160 02:22:18.920 --> 02:22:22.079 I've been watching so much Warframe stuff recently and I just came for the recommend 2161 02:22:22.079 --> 02:22:26.079 Why would you watch warm, I don't know, because I wanted to again 2162 02:22:26.079 --> 02:22:30.319 in touch with so at the very least, no one here tonight will have 2163 02:22:30.399 --> 02:22:33.680 a worse show than me saying registered losers. And my first Gateboards appearance about 2164 02:22:33.680 --> 02:22:37.200 eight years and that's iconic clue. It was at this point I've embraced it. 2165 02:22:37.239 --> 02:22:41.680 But I remember my like megan O back she was filming the team was 2166 02:22:41.680 --> 02:22:43.440 like, oh my god, whar friends on the game Wars for the first 2167 02:22:43.440 --> 02:22:46.079 time ever? And they were all filming from their own And I say it 2168 02:22:46.120 --> 02:22:50.520 and I just hear the whole room gong. Yeah, so that makes it 2169 02:22:50.559 --> 02:22:54.440 even better though, Really? Yeah, can I ask you? Do you 2170 02:22:54.520 --> 02:22:58.559 want to should we do this? What color is indigo? No? No, 2171 02:22:58.200 --> 02:23:05.239 you know that's that's the will shoot there. But yeah, I'm not 2172 02:23:05.280 --> 02:23:11.920 going to go on it to keep going, keep going, keep going, 2173 02:23:11.040 --> 02:23:18.200 keep going. Work you like that one. The next war frame is going 2174 02:23:18.280 --> 02:23:26.840 to have a real high heel. I looked at it today and are you 2175 02:23:26.840 --> 02:23:30.760 a blue or violet? I was originally purple violet, and I think I've 2176 02:23:30.799 --> 02:23:33.920 come around to it's mostly blue. You are one of us. You are 2177 02:23:33.040 --> 02:23:39.440 correct? Act okay, Google, you guys talking about color, I'm the 2178 02:23:39.479 --> 02:23:46.479 wrong guy. What color is? I just wanted to of course purple? 2179 02:23:46.559 --> 02:23:50.360 Okay, blueish purple? You can't see blueish purple because we're trying to have 2180 02:23:50.520 --> 02:23:58.079 like a hard line between is one of Shannon? You're right taking colors? 2181 02:23:58.760 --> 02:24:07.000 Yeah, Primary schools are basically my food source. I don't eat children Are 2182 02:24:07.040 --> 02:24:11.799 you sure? I'm looking forward to what comes next after registered Losers? Yeah, 2183 02:24:11.200 --> 02:24:15.319 I don't eat children's shirts, answering all the questions are asking me, 2184 02:24:15.520 --> 02:24:22.200 Oh no, I want to do so much damage to my company, Harris. 2185 02:24:22.479 --> 02:24:24.399 Yeah, what are you going up to? Hey? How's it going? 2186 02:24:24.440 --> 02:24:26.799 It's going pretty good? How about you? Cool? Yeah? I 2187 02:24:26.360 --> 02:24:31.799 work at an awesome company called Good Trouble. We are making a like accessible 2188 02:24:31.920 --> 02:24:35.200 arts because, like RTS games are really hard to get into these days, 2189 02:24:35.360 --> 02:24:39.200 and we want to make a game that like both like accessible and approachable and 2190 02:24:39.360 --> 02:24:45.239 like medically accessible in every single possible way we can like bring people into RTS 2191 02:24:45.319 --> 02:24:48.959 as we want to do that. Yeah, So it feels like marts is 2192 02:24:48.000 --> 02:24:54.040 a genre that is waiting for something like that. It's like people want it 2193 02:24:54.079 --> 02:24:56.120 to come back. They're like, we're waiting for the one that's going to 2194 02:24:56.159 --> 02:24:58.479 be worth their time investment. Is that something you guys recognize? Right? 2195 02:24:58.799 --> 02:25:03.799 I I feel like the RTS genre has gotten more and more niche as time 2196 02:25:03.879 --> 02:25:05.760 has gone on. And like I remember, like growing up, my older 2197 02:25:05.799 --> 02:25:11.280 brother would play nothing but Command and Conquer, and he would not consider himself 2198 02:25:11.280 --> 02:25:13.280 a gamer. He would just play command of concor and like, imagine trying 2199 02:25:13.319 --> 02:25:16.799 to get someone who's like not into video games at all playing in rts these 2200 02:25:16.879 --> 02:25:20.680 days. It's really hard. Yeah, And so like even beyond that, 2201 02:25:20.879 --> 02:25:24.479 like our main goal is accessibility. Our founder Armand, who's watching a high 2202 02:25:24.520 --> 02:25:33.360 arment, Hey loser interview letters Those are fine now, ok? Yeah, 2203 02:25:33.559 --> 02:25:39.600 so this strategy game power Match. You know, Armand has this incredible story 2204 02:25:39.760 --> 02:25:43.600 of you know, being in the hospital in his teens making warcraft mods and 2205 02:25:43.719 --> 02:25:46.479 wanting to share them with you know, all the other kids around him, 2206 02:25:46.559 --> 02:25:52.680 and for you know, reasons of you know, dexterity or you know vision 2207 02:25:52.239 --> 02:25:54.680 or this and that, you know, they couldn't get into the game. 2208 02:25:54.920 --> 02:26:00.559 So we are making this game where those kids can have something to play in 2209 02:26:00.639 --> 02:26:03.920 the strategy world. We're exaled, are you Are you working with him on 2210 02:26:03.959 --> 02:26:11.959 this or oh I wish not? Yeah? Yeah, sign know, we 2211 02:26:11.079 --> 02:26:16.440 only work together on being super duper best friends. That was my confusion. 2212 02:26:16.520 --> 02:26:20.319 That makes sense to ask. Yeah, we're like really tight. Yeah, 2213 02:26:20.879 --> 02:26:26.520 I've lived in this man's home. He didn't, He didn't he live stid 2214 02:26:26.600 --> 02:26:31.840 there. Yeah, you know it depends on that. You're definitely clearly he 2215 02:26:31.920 --> 02:26:37.000 didn't. Yeah, Harris, it doesn't seem like RTS is though, there's 2216 02:26:37.000 --> 02:26:39.000 gonna be like a lot of games in that space. Tooom, how do 2217 02:26:39.079 --> 02:26:43.200 you predict a way to stand out? Great question, Like I feel every 2218 02:26:43.479 --> 02:26:48.799 RTS that is like we were entering an RTS renaissance, which is like right, 2219 02:26:48.479 --> 02:26:52.719 a lot of like the StarCraft deps left starting their own studios. They're 2220 02:26:52.719 --> 02:26:56.879 making it happen. Yes, and all these games are super inspired by RTS 2221 02:26:58.079 --> 02:27:01.479 as a like genre and as a like oh we can like look at this 2222 02:27:01.680 --> 02:27:07.120 exact one inspiration and make the spiritual success to to that, we want to 2223 02:27:07.200 --> 02:27:09.879 go like a little bit diagonal from that and say, like, we are 2224 02:27:09.959 --> 02:27:15.639 making a strategy game that is real time, but it is not like the 2225 02:27:15.760 --> 02:27:20.000 games you played before. So we're working on some super secret awesome systems that 2226 02:27:20.159 --> 02:27:24.879 like separate these things from what you would like consider to be an RTS things 2227 02:27:24.959 --> 02:27:30.280 like super action heavy APM kind of stuff where you see the screen teleporting all 2228 02:27:30.280 --> 02:27:33.639 over in competitive star Craft. We want to like eliminate that and just make 2229 02:27:33.680 --> 02:27:37.399 it about like how can I use my brain to strategize and win a game? 2230 02:27:39.040 --> 02:27:41.120 And yeah, excellent, Yeah, And Zalegor, what have you been 2231 02:27:41.200 --> 02:27:45.520 up to that a lot of things. That's a big question. M h. 2232 02:27:46.200 --> 02:27:48.120 This year, I've been a big answer. Let's make it up. 2233 02:27:48.280 --> 02:27:52.559 I've been in games for fifteen years this year. Wait, you started when 2234 02:27:52.559 --> 02:27:56.559 you were like ten. I pretended to be an adult on the internet to 2235 02:27:56.600 --> 02:27:58.920 get my first jobs. This is how we connected. Yeah, yeah, 2236 02:28:00.559 --> 02:28:05.040 yeah, that's a that's a shared foundation. You've also we both Oh, 2237 02:28:05.479 --> 02:28:07.959 it's a lot of I g and and thinking I was a grown adult. 2238 02:28:09.159 --> 02:28:16.159 I'll go yeah, hey, everybody look at there eventually, but yeah, 2239 02:28:16.280 --> 02:28:20.239 I means so. So fifteen years, fifteen years in games, started as 2240 02:28:20.239 --> 02:28:22.959 a journalist, eight years in game development, and I think I've hit my 2241 02:28:22.799 --> 02:28:26.520 eighty eighth game I've worked on at this point. So the question isn't what 2242 02:28:26.600 --> 02:28:30.319 I'm doing, it's what am I not doing? Well? Someone please let 2243 02:28:30.399 --> 02:28:35.239 me go to sleep. So what was it been recently? I know you 2244 02:28:35.440 --> 02:28:39.000 didn't you released a game this year that everyone's been playing, right, Yeah, 2245 02:28:39.280 --> 02:28:41.680 yeah, so there's been too one of which that they haven't been playing 2246 02:28:41.799 --> 02:28:46.000 because we danced a little bit too close to the sun. The first game 2247 02:28:46.040 --> 02:28:48.440 we released this year was Sunshine Shuffle, which got temporarily banned from the Nintendo 2248 02:28:48.639 --> 02:28:52.520 Shop for allegedly promoting child gambling. Oh okay, and if you look at 2249 02:28:52.520 --> 02:28:56.319 the Ted talks and all of them, I always end up with we aren't 2250 02:28:56.360 --> 02:29:00.079 teaching children to gamble, which meant that when I tried to defend myself that 2251 02:29:00.159 --> 02:29:03.040 was an extensive process. Ah yeah, that makes a problem. So that 2252 02:29:03.120 --> 02:29:05.719 was a Parkadi at the inventory Spiritual Successor, which is also a true crime 2253 02:29:05.840 --> 02:29:11.840 drama where adorable animals talk about robbing a bank fourteen years ago. The other 2254 02:29:11.920 --> 02:29:16.000 game that released this here is al Paso Elsewhere right, which is a thank 2255 02:29:16.040 --> 02:29:20.200 you Yes that cloud could be let's let's try that again. Yeah yeah, 2256 02:29:20.680 --> 02:29:28.280 oh my god, what she's happening? Yeah, so I'm hyped up that 2257 02:29:28.440 --> 02:29:33.799 Maxipaine Spiritual Successor retro third person shooter. A black vampire hunter goes into a 2258 02:29:33.959 --> 02:29:37.719 demension shifting hotel to destroy the monster he loved before she ends the world. 2259 02:29:39.120 --> 02:29:43.239 Yeah. It has an original hip hop horror albums VI. Oh yeah, 2260 02:29:43.840 --> 02:29:46.520 it's I'm like I was trying to place it in like like, yes, 2261 02:29:46.760 --> 02:29:50.639 I've seen this game. I've seen it on TikTok a bunch because there are 2262 02:29:50.680 --> 02:29:52.200 people setting their music to it and playing that game now, So yes, 2263 02:29:52.479 --> 02:29:56.559 really got got Yes, absolutely, that's awesome, and I'm like and then 2264 02:29:56.559 --> 02:29:58.440 I, oh, yeah, this is that All Pass elsewhere that I think 2265 02:29:58.520 --> 02:30:01.799 Jan was telling me about or someone. Yeah, yeah, Jams told me 2266 02:30:01.840 --> 02:30:03.559 about this, and so I was like, okay, yeah, I'm gonna 2267 02:30:03.600 --> 02:30:05.040 check this out. And then I'm like, well, I got a million 2268 02:30:05.079 --> 02:30:07.239 hours of boulders Gate three to play first, So yeah, All three is 2269 02:30:07.239 --> 02:30:09.799 such a good game exactly, but yeah, now I'm gonna make time for 2270 02:30:09.840 --> 02:30:13.159 it. But yeah, so that, I mean people have been talking about 2271 02:30:13.559 --> 02:30:16.120 so elsewhere. That's pretty cool, right, It's really cool. We expected 2272 02:30:16.159 --> 02:30:20.639 to get sixes and sevens because we made a game that made very precise choices. 2273 02:30:20.719 --> 02:30:24.000 You don't immediately think, right, supernatural, hip hop, horror when 2274 02:30:24.079 --> 02:30:28.360 you think of Max Pain. But nonetheless, we wanted to not show people 2275 02:30:28.680 --> 02:30:33.319 what they fell in love with before, but what kind of like the stuff 2276 02:30:33.319 --> 02:30:37.120 that Harris and co. Are doing, what the things they've loved could evolve 2277 02:30:37.159 --> 02:30:41.879 into next. And seeing people really connect with that has been such a gratifying 2278 02:30:41.879 --> 02:30:43.920 experience. On top of that, I got to talk this year about working 2279 02:30:43.959 --> 02:30:48.479 on Magic Gathering in Sount Park, snow Day and all these incredible projects with 2280 02:30:48.520 --> 02:30:52.680 a lot of amazing teams. I'm deeply grateful for despite a rough year in 2281 02:30:52.760 --> 02:30:56.479 games, still being here and still sticking in it. Yeah, I mean 2282 02:30:58.200 --> 02:31:01.600 it feels to the kind of thing where like strong choice is something that is 2283 02:31:01.639 --> 02:31:03.600 a benefit at this point, right, you want to there's so many games, 2284 02:31:03.840 --> 02:31:07.319 so many people making games. Clearly that's part of the issue, is 2285 02:31:07.360 --> 02:31:11.520 like it's hard to stand out, so strong choices is probably beneficial to that, 2286 02:31:11.639 --> 02:31:16.920 right, Yeah, I think that at this point the idea of just 2287 02:31:16.040 --> 02:31:20.440 making a game that hits an audience, right is what kills studios more so 2288 02:31:20.559 --> 02:31:22.600 than anything. You see this with live service games all the time, where 2289 02:31:22.600 --> 02:31:26.600 they're like, you play Destiny, right, you want to play a new 2290 02:31:26.760 --> 02:31:31.440 thing and it doesn't seem like there's stuff to chew into there. And there's 2291 02:31:31.559 --> 02:31:35.840 really talented people who did it. There's an immense amount of investment that occurred 2292 02:31:35.840 --> 02:31:37.799 there, but nonetheless the game doesn't feel like there is something you can chew 2293 02:31:37.840 --> 02:31:39.719 into, and right, I think it's really notable that a lot of the 2294 02:31:39.799 --> 02:31:43.319 Game of the Year candidates we're talking about now, stuff like Final Fantasy sixteen, 2295 02:31:43.639 --> 02:31:50.959 stuff like The Balder Skate three and Allen Wack two. Every single game 2296 02:31:50.319 --> 02:31:56.079 that is really landing with people. This year does a gigantic called Shot Tears 2297 02:31:56.079 --> 02:31:58.840 of the Kingdom throwing out all the tools you had before and reliving that magic 2298 02:32:00.079 --> 02:32:03.440 in a new way with entirely new set of tools. People connect with it, 2299 02:32:03.479 --> 02:32:07.079 and I hope that we see more of that as the game's industry moves 2300 02:32:07.079 --> 02:32:09.399 into twenty twenty four and twenty twenty five. Do you think it's that as 2301 02:32:09.440 --> 02:32:16.479 players that were connect with specificity where it's like the creator has a certain idea 2302 02:32:16.520 --> 02:32:18.360 of what they want and we recognize that and now we get a chance to 2303 02:32:18.360 --> 02:32:20.680 play around with it and bring ourselves to it. But it's easier to do 2304 02:32:20.760 --> 02:32:24.879 that if we're latching onto something that seems like a strong choice in a game. 2305 02:32:24.559 --> 02:32:28.319 I think so because I play a lot of seven out of tens from 2306 02:32:28.360 --> 02:32:35.680 the early two thousands and seven out of tens absolutely yeah. And those games, 2307 02:32:35.000 --> 02:32:39.280 even when they didn't sell, well, maybe they weren't critically appreciating their 2308 02:32:39.319 --> 02:32:41.079 time. Def Jam Fight for en Y is one of the best games of 2309 02:32:41.120 --> 02:32:48.280 all time. The idea that they nonetheless took swings, They had a different 2310 02:32:48.280 --> 02:32:50.879 control system. There was something in them that was broken and flawed, but 2311 02:32:50.879 --> 02:32:52.280 it was nonetheless, something you even attached to is so important, And I 2312 02:32:52.399 --> 02:33:00.360 think players are reacting now to game shaped objects where it plays just like you 2313 02:33:00.399 --> 02:33:03.000 would want a metro a Veina to play, It looks just like you want 2314 02:33:03.000 --> 02:33:05.280 a Metro aveain In to look. But you're asking where the team's heart is, 2315 02:33:05.399 --> 02:33:07.799 because these teams always have heart. It's just a matter of how much 2316 02:33:07.840 --> 02:33:11.719 they're allowed to display it and how much time and resources they've been given to 2317 02:33:13.319 --> 02:33:18.360 show that vision. So I think people want to chew into something that's very 2318 02:33:18.440 --> 02:33:26.639 human because we're vampires fundamentally drinking each other's life worst. But also at the 2319 02:33:26.719 --> 02:33:28.239 end of the day, players and devs are all just humans trying to connect 2320 02:33:28.280 --> 02:33:31.719 with each other. And that's where I think that, like there's a re 2321 02:33:33.520 --> 02:33:39.399 relationship that needs to get rebuilt because a lot of players are feeling abandoned touching 2322 02:33:39.440 --> 02:33:43.280 these game shaped objects and not seeing the humanity behind them, and to a 2323 02:33:43.319 --> 02:33:46.239 degree not having the vocabulary to express that. They're looking for people to be 2324 02:33:46.360 --> 02:33:54.799 specific and human to them. Ramy's that reflects your experience, Yeah, yeah, 2325 02:33:54.639 --> 02:33:58.200 yeah, like working at respond how is that is that something like where 2326 02:33:58.520 --> 02:34:01.920 you guys have that conversation about Hey, we want to put our heart into 2327 02:34:01.920 --> 02:34:05.040 the things that we're putting out there. Yeah, I would have said no, 2328 02:34:07.719 --> 02:34:16.840 I would yeah, let's be clear. Yeah yeah, yeah, no, 2329 02:34:16.879 --> 02:34:20.079 no, no, there's uh, there's only so much you can do 2330 02:34:20.520 --> 02:34:24.200 in given time, given resources, so that there there's always a lot of 2331 02:34:24.360 --> 02:34:26.840 yeah what what what what are these things you take? And when do you 2332 02:34:26.879 --> 02:34:31.239 take them? And cost? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, but I guess 2333 02:34:31.440 --> 02:34:35.600 yeah to your question, Yeah, yeah, you last time you were on 2334 02:34:35.680 --> 02:34:37.600 the Giant BPCU, I don't know this last time one of the times you 2335 02:34:37.639 --> 02:34:46.559 were on the Giant MP couch. Yes. You always made up that you 2336 02:34:46.639 --> 02:34:50.120 being from Alaska and ship yeah back yeah, and now you but you are 2337 02:34:50.280 --> 02:34:54.159 in the southern California, right. That feels like two very different places. 2338 02:34:54.159 --> 02:34:56.399 But now you've been here a long time, right as of yesterday, I've 2339 02:34:56.440 --> 02:35:00.200 been here eighteen years. Yeah, So what's it like making games and Southern 2340 02:35:00.239 --> 02:35:05.120 California seems like a thing that not hard? Yeah, well so I moved 2341 02:35:05.120 --> 02:35:09.639 here because because this is where a lot of dannistry was especially back then. 2342 02:35:09.680 --> 02:35:11.559 Yes, yeah, and there just kind of twice the cool thing. So 2343 02:35:11.879 --> 02:35:16.239 the the team mon now like we got people from all over like Canada, 2344 02:35:16.520 --> 02:35:20.079 England, like we're because the pandemic is still able to hire all over the 2345 02:35:20.120 --> 02:35:24.719 place, and we wouldn't have that team if they the people who just would 2346 02:35:24.719 --> 02:35:26.799 never moved to Los Angeles because you either want to live here you don't. 2347 02:35:28.399 --> 02:35:31.799 Uh. And so it's been I don't know, Yeah, it's it's been 2348 02:35:31.840 --> 02:35:33.680 great. Just happened having people to work. I mean, is that a 2349 02:35:33.760 --> 02:35:37.879 change that you could ever foresee being able to be undone having remote work and 2350 02:35:37.920 --> 02:35:41.639 you're in your studio. It works like we need this now. Yeah, 2351 02:35:41.639 --> 02:35:46.040 but we we literally couldn't couldn't have the same team, Like our our art 2352 02:35:46.079 --> 02:35:50.680 directory was amazing easy East in Chicago, Like there's no way we'd be like, 2353 02:35:50.719 --> 02:35:52.239 all right, come on to one spot so we can all smell each 2354 02:35:52.239 --> 02:36:03.239 other. That's happening now. But it's like people always think, I think 2355 02:36:03.239 --> 02:36:07.879 they imagine we're losing something because we're not in the same space. But I 2356 02:36:07.920 --> 02:36:09.879 don't. Do you feel that there's anything really lost? I mean it's different, 2357 02:36:09.879 --> 02:36:13.440 like differ it doesn't have different challenges. When when when we went, 2358 02:36:13.600 --> 02:36:16.040 you know, because it was all of a sudden, it was like everyone 2359 02:36:16.079 --> 02:36:20.879 go home for a week haha. And and as we as we shipped into 2360 02:36:20.120 --> 02:36:24.360 Like I had never been on slap before, and we've never really been on 2361 02:36:24.440 --> 02:36:28.760 Zoom and stuff, and now we had to we had to make it work. 2362 02:36:28.799 --> 02:36:31.079 And and it was weird because I realized I was suddenly that was very 2363 02:36:31.159 --> 02:36:35.319 unaware there are two people shared novels with and and like, okay, I'm 2364 02:36:35.360 --> 02:36:37.760 now way less aware of what they're doing every day, which makes sense, 2365 02:36:37.360 --> 02:36:39.399 but like, oh shit, I didn't know how I didn't know what I 2366 02:36:39.440 --> 02:36:43.479 didn't know. Like now I was just way more aware of what everyone else 2367 02:36:43.600 --> 02:36:46.559 is doing. And it's honestly just different challenge. Yeah, you have to 2368 02:36:46.600 --> 02:36:50.600 be engaged in a different way, right, yeah. Yeah, as as 2369 02:36:50.639 --> 02:36:54.440 someone that respawned, Are you guys sick of hearing by Titan Fall three and 2370 02:36:54.479 --> 02:36:56.559 the love for wanting more titan Ful or is it like you understand you Oh 2371 02:36:56.600 --> 02:37:00.719 that's the yeah, it can be yeah yeah, yeah, I love I 2372 02:37:00.760 --> 02:37:03.559 love general robots. Yeah yeah right, yeah. We was nice to see 2373 02:37:03.559 --> 02:37:07.600 the sort of resurgence of Titan Fall over the last couple of months where like 2374 02:37:07.680 --> 02:37:09.479 they like spiked really high for there for a while. We went back and 2375 02:37:09.520 --> 02:37:13.760 played it and had a great time, like yeah, yeah, and I've 2376 02:37:13.799 --> 02:37:16.319 gone kids in there. The Internet can't compete with them, ask about titan 2377 02:37:16.360 --> 02:37:20.879 Fall stuff, fantastic that. Yeah, I'm like, I'm glad they're doing 2378 02:37:20.920 --> 02:37:24.120 the work so we don't have to cool. Yeah, let's see Shannon, 2379 02:37:24.200 --> 02:37:28.719 what do you expect to happen with like the game awards? You you like 2380 02:37:28.920 --> 02:37:31.280 your favorite that you're pulling for. Yeah, No, so that's year. 2381 02:37:31.280 --> 02:37:33.040 We have like a huge well, we have a lot of freelancers, a 2382 02:37:33.120 --> 02:37:35.879 huge team. And then I'm like asking them, like I can't project what's 2383 02:37:35.879 --> 02:37:39.280 gonna happen. We're saying like there might be a new singing game because Sego 2384 02:37:39.360 --> 02:37:41.879 was teasing something. I don't know, if you wanted to go through all 2385 02:37:41.879 --> 02:37:46.559 of them. There's a sure ending too. Yeah, more and more about 2386 02:37:46.559 --> 02:37:48.879 that, I could totally show up. Yeah, personally, I think Hades 2387 02:37:48.920 --> 02:37:52.719 two we should get more of that. I would love to see more from 2388 02:37:52.760 --> 02:37:56.079 Super Giant and yeah, and then there's also uh a Fable. I think 2389 02:37:56.120 --> 02:37:58.760 Fable has Yeah, need to know more. Yeah, I think like their 2390 02:37:58.840 --> 02:38:01.559 next scheme is definitely held Blay two over at Microsoft. But it's yeah, 2391 02:38:01.600 --> 02:38:05.159 but it's like we'll tell us about what's after that and after that a little 2392 02:38:05.159 --> 02:38:07.200 bit because we've wen'ys seen help Bay too a few times, so yeah, 2393 02:38:07.200 --> 02:38:09.159 they want to show that again. I want to see something else as well. 2394 02:38:09.760 --> 02:38:11.520 I feel like the fans have been waiting for new fielble for a long 2395 02:38:11.600 --> 02:38:15.079 time. So yeah, those are the things I'm like expecting. And then 2396 02:38:15.360 --> 02:38:18.040 Jeff Kelly promised like fewer world premieres, right, So yeah, with that, 2397 02:38:18.319 --> 02:38:22.159 I think he's I think he was just trying to like acknowledge like the 2398 02:38:22.200 --> 02:38:24.360 language is weird around world premieres, where it's like it's hard to be like, 2399 02:38:24.440 --> 02:38:26.159 what's a world premiere? A lot of these things have shown up in 2400 02:38:26.159 --> 02:38:30.040 other places where they get talked about, like a lot of lot of times 2401 02:38:30.079 --> 02:38:33.200 companies are announcing games so they can attract talent and stuff, so it's like 2402 02:38:33.360 --> 02:38:35.959 these things have been officially announced, they just haven't been shown before. So 2403 02:38:37.079 --> 02:38:39.200 that's going to happen here at the Game Awards. Yeah. I think people 2404 02:38:39.200 --> 02:38:41.200 were meaming him for a while so because like, all right, no more 2405 02:38:41.239 --> 02:38:46.360 announcing world premiere. But he might say here's a trailer. Yeah, like 2406 02:38:46.040 --> 02:38:54.000 trailer, I guess like world world's world premiere as you call it. World 2407 02:38:54.040 --> 02:39:03.360 premiers say they see the English, no world I think I think the thing 2408 02:39:03.520 --> 02:39:05.479 is like, well, world's premiere is they devalue things that aren't is in 2409 02:39:05.559 --> 02:39:09.040 like we should only value this thing if it's your first time we've ever seen 2410 02:39:09.040 --> 02:39:11.479 it, as opposed to the idea that game development takes a long long time. 2411 02:39:11.840 --> 02:39:15.680 And so you go, well, if this isn't a world premiere, 2412 02:39:15.920 --> 02:39:18.200 then there's no point me right, And it's like, you know, the 2413 02:39:18.319 --> 02:39:22.079 reality is this is a show where he is trying to make money, so 2414 02:39:22.280 --> 02:39:26.200 he is like his customers are a lot of times developers looking to get showcased, 2415 02:39:26.200 --> 02:39:28.559 and it's like, yeah, well, like why can't can we get 2416 02:39:28.559 --> 02:39:31.840 the world premiere tech? He's like, well, technically it's not. It's 2417 02:39:31.879 --> 02:39:33.719 like why even have that there so you couldn't buy it. It was a 2418 02:39:33.760 --> 02:39:37.360 weird thing that happened over the past couple of years, which was there's going 2419 02:39:37.399 --> 02:39:41.280 to be thirty six world premieres, Like what does that even mean? And 2420 02:39:41.319 --> 02:39:43.200 the people start judging it on this bizarre thing, and I think there has 2421 02:39:43.239 --> 02:39:46.479 been so much more of a healthy discourse about what's going to show up at 2422 02:39:46.520 --> 02:39:50.440 the game or was this year? Because that isn't there? And I also 2423 02:39:50.520 --> 02:39:54.360 think that maybe we're at year where people who are excited to see what wins 2424 02:39:54.440 --> 02:39:56.040 Game of the Year. Yeah, I actually think it's it's the first time, 2425 02:39:56.399 --> 02:40:00.879 maybe just in my experience, where people want know what's going to win, 2426 02:40:00.959 --> 02:40:05.879 because people are pulling for their favorite because it has been games wise anyway, 2427 02:40:05.040 --> 02:40:09.879 a year to celebrate a product that we've all consumed, and people want 2428 02:40:09.920 --> 02:40:13.719 to see their favorites. When you stop one for Resue before. I love 2429 02:40:13.799 --> 02:40:18.360 Residue Before. It's my favorite game of the year. But I do like, 2430 02:40:18.559 --> 02:40:22.959 listen, I just finished Allan Wait two and gush to the entire remedy 2431 02:40:22.040 --> 02:40:24.680 team and it's well. At the sam Lake, I was like, I 2432 02:40:24.719 --> 02:40:31.239 love your video game, Please please build my name right. But I think 2433 02:40:31.520 --> 02:40:35.399 the great thing about the six games that are up for it is every single 2434 02:40:35.440 --> 02:40:37.280 one of them is worthy depending on your experiences with them. I do think 2435 02:40:37.319 --> 02:40:41.760 game awards awards in general are silly because it's like, how do you quantify 2436 02:40:43.200 --> 02:40:46.920 someone's own personal experience with something like how are you saying that my experience with 2437 02:40:46.959 --> 02:40:50.360 the game is more valuable than someone else's. But I think it has been 2438 02:40:50.639 --> 02:40:58.079 such a brilliant year that showcases different types of games, and the six games 2439 02:40:58.079 --> 02:41:01.079 that are up are all worthy of being read presented in that way. Yeah, 2440 02:41:01.079 --> 02:41:03.000 Ben, I would tend to agree with you because I went around my 2441 02:41:03.040 --> 02:41:05.479 achieve and asked them, like, I think boulders Gate three is gonna win 2442 02:41:05.559 --> 02:41:07.280 for sure, and they were like, actually, no, we think ellen 2443 02:41:07.319 --> 02:41:09.639 Wick two has a good chance as well. We love ellong Wik two. 2444 02:41:09.719 --> 02:41:13.079 So I don't know about you, but like, yeah, at this point, 2445 02:41:13.120 --> 02:41:16.000 I really don't know. I would think I would put my money on 2446 02:41:16.040 --> 02:41:18.520 boulders k three, but yeah, but yeah, ellen Wait two had a 2447 02:41:18.559 --> 02:41:20.559 really good timing there at the end of the year, going to like surge 2448 02:41:20.600 --> 02:41:22.440 at the right time. I think Zelda will still get a lot of love, 2449 02:41:22.520 --> 02:41:24.559 but probably will have a hard time winning after the both Breath of the 2450 02:41:24.600 --> 02:41:28.159 Wild one. So yeah, but I'm like, I'm excited about it, 2451 02:41:28.319 --> 02:41:31.399 like it's and it's it's fun. When we're doing our Game to the Year 2452 02:41:31.399 --> 02:41:33.239 awards, it's like it's fun to talk about this stuff because we're going to 2453 02:41:33.319 --> 02:41:37.120 go in and we're going to do our Eurovision style voting and like, I 2454 02:41:37.600 --> 02:41:41.360 don't know, Yeah, you're by the way, the your vision voting system 2455 02:41:41.920 --> 02:41:43.600 in general, for your visions on contest, it's one of the most exciting 2456 02:41:45.200 --> 02:41:48.200 if you haven't ever watched Eurovision, just go and watch one. It's the 2457 02:41:48.280 --> 02:41:50.680 weirdest thing ever. But the voting system is just oh, chef's kiss hysic. 2458 02:41:50.959 --> 02:41:54.159 You know, it's exactly how we're doing it. Abscribe it to someone 2459 02:41:54.200 --> 02:41:58.479 that has neither euro nor Vision. Country is a vote and they can like 2460 02:41:58.719 --> 02:42:01.799 we do. They have a whole list they go up to on the stage 2461 02:42:01.799 --> 02:42:11.079 and we are giving our first place twelve points to this the final round of 2462 02:42:11.120 --> 02:42:24.159 Quicklash. That's the American taking. It's just they just draw it out to 2463 02:42:24.239 --> 02:42:28.000 make it more to that. There's a lot. If we've oversimplified, there 2464 02:42:28.079 --> 02:42:30.440 is a lot. But I'm not going to go onto the intricacies of the 2465 02:42:30.559 --> 02:42:33.719 Univision voting system because it goes on for like five hours. But it's a 2466 02:42:33.760 --> 02:42:39.840 great it's a great thing. Cool. Yes that I think video games are 2467 02:42:39.000 --> 02:42:43.719 great. And also when it comes to when it comes to this year, 2468 02:42:45.200 --> 02:42:48.159 Okay, one game is going to be called the Game Awards Game of the 2469 02:42:48.239 --> 02:42:52.319 Year. But I mean I've just been like hugging Michael Hyam outside for basically 2470 02:42:52.360 --> 02:42:56.239 putting Octopod Traveler Too on their top ten Game to the Year, because I 2471 02:42:56.319 --> 02:42:58.399 think that there are so many games that people are going to take away in 2472 02:42:58.399 --> 02:43:01.120 the next ten year, is that are going to change someone's life with de 2473 02:43:01.200 --> 02:43:05.760 fine how they exist. I'm a massive fan of Cocoon, like I Thinkon 2474 02:43:05.879 --> 02:43:09.040 is the game for me that made me real a video games. This year, 2475 02:43:09.079 --> 02:43:11.200 I've kind of fell out of love with them a little bit, and 2476 02:43:11.239 --> 02:43:13.440 then they went, here is this simple game that is a simplicancy done to 2477 02:43:13.559 --> 02:43:20.879 its fullest, and it's like, how do we explore this idea continuously going 2478 02:43:20.959 --> 02:43:24.799 inside of itself? And I'm thankful for that for having that experience, right. 2479 02:43:24.840 --> 02:43:28.399 I had that with Chance of SNAr where it's like I am, oh, 2480 02:43:28.520 --> 02:43:31.479 someone's making games for my kind of brain where I feel like, oh, 2481 02:43:31.760 --> 02:43:33.440 this is something where it's like we want the game to mostly exist in 2482 02:43:33.479 --> 02:43:37.879 your brain and feel like you're completely in control of the learning the understanding of 2483 02:43:37.959 --> 02:43:39.639 how it functions. And it's like that's so powerful to me. And it's 2484 02:43:39.680 --> 02:43:41.440 like, oh, we're gonna get were probably gonna get a lot more of 2485 02:43:41.440 --> 02:43:45.079 that because that's kind of what Overden did. There's a couple of handful other 2486 02:43:45.159 --> 02:43:46.319 games that operate in that same way. It's like, oh, we're on 2487 02:43:46.399 --> 02:43:50.520 the cusp of this becoming a whole genre to itself, and it's so exciting, 2488 02:43:52.280 --> 02:43:54.840 especially because you have the Sorry I was just gonna say, you have 2489 02:43:54.879 --> 02:43:58.159 the lead time of games where Triple A games have to take five to eight 2490 02:43:58.239 --> 02:44:01.600 years now, and the games are starting to edge up there as well. 2491 02:44:01.799 --> 02:44:05.479 So if you look at the time from Overden, we're about dues. We 2492 02:44:05.520 --> 02:44:09.040 aren't for that, and that's why you got like Curse of the Golden Idol. 2493 02:44:09.040 --> 02:44:11.000 I think that was last year, yes, and that's directly following in 2494 02:44:11.040 --> 02:44:15.360 those footsteps Andreas on later tonight actually from Case of the Golden Idol. So 2495 02:44:15.879 --> 02:44:18.319 yeah, yeah, one of my favorite games last year. Yeah, exactly. 2496 02:44:18.399 --> 02:44:22.719 It's like we were the War where is people don't know, Wow, 2497 02:44:24.840 --> 02:44:30.319 that game there, it's here the games we got do you say that? 2498 02:44:33.159 --> 02:44:39.760 Like A Dragon has got to be like the highest budget, like high concept, 2499 02:44:39.920 --> 02:44:43.280 high like you were not shooting most of the time in all way too, 2500 02:44:43.479 --> 02:44:46.680 and I like was taken by that, Like I think it's so taken. 2501 02:44:50.520 --> 02:44:54.959 That's the bad guys. Yeah, it's you spend so much time, 2502 02:44:56.200 --> 02:45:01.000 you know, messing with wakes like corkboard, and so I'm just cordboard and 2503 02:45:01.040 --> 02:45:05.959 there's so much non shooting stuff in alan Awaker. You know, I've never 2504 02:45:05.000 --> 02:45:09.920 seen again in that high budget kind of make you not shoot things for so 2505 02:45:09.079 --> 02:45:13.840 long. Yeah. Yeah, really, it's almost like the game doesn't want 2506 02:45:13.879 --> 02:45:16.440 you to play it like a survival horror. It just wants to just to 2507 02:45:16.559 --> 02:45:20.159 let you play the game. And then, by the way, sometimes you'll 2508 02:45:20.200 --> 02:45:22.760 have to do some fighting, it just doesn't give you enough AMO to do 2509 02:45:22.840 --> 02:45:26.760 it anyway. Sure, yeah, yeah, that was quite a frustration when 2510 02:45:26.799 --> 02:45:28.360 I would get into fights not have enough hamo and say, oh man, 2511 02:45:28.360 --> 02:45:33.959 I wish I could corkboard these guys for death, but just change the scene, 2512 02:45:33.079 --> 02:45:35.920 did you? I got to go back. I don't think that a 2513 02:45:35.920 --> 02:45:39.479 game gets enough credit for, like you know, if we're talking about like 2514 02:45:39.520 --> 02:45:43.159 Titanfall, right, titan Fall two amazing for a number of reasons, but 2515 02:45:43.200 --> 02:45:45.719 a level in which you can literally just change the scene in front of your 2516 02:45:45.799 --> 02:45:48.959 right snap between that it's time thing Alan Wait two does that, and like 2517 02:45:48.600 --> 02:45:54.559 it's so incredible. Never stopped. I never stopped being amazed at every time. 2518 02:45:54.600 --> 02:45:56.360 I'd like tap on that keyboard and then bam, it just changes the 2519 02:45:56.360 --> 02:45:58.959 scene in front of you. It changes the geography, it changes the tone. 2520 02:46:00.239 --> 02:46:01.920 Is just the lighting within seconds, and I'm like, I don't think 2521 02:46:03.000 --> 02:46:05.040 we give it enough credit for even that on top of the fact that it 2522 02:46:05.120 --> 02:46:09.959 is this kind of singular vision that is so unique and it's using a lot 2523 02:46:09.959 --> 02:46:13.280 of tools to do one thing. Yeah, it's a technically masterful it is 2524 02:46:13.440 --> 02:46:18.200 narratively so adventurous, and it's an amazing experience. Yeah, going back to 2525 02:46:18.280 --> 02:46:20.680 what za Lavia was saying about, like, you know, this game like 2526 02:46:20.840 --> 02:46:24.639 the year Game of the Year nominees, I think they're all like pushing the 2527 02:46:24.719 --> 02:46:28.319 envelope forward of like what video games can be and what they could be going 2528 02:46:28.399 --> 02:46:31.559 forward. And I think that alan Wick too, Like I interviewed the Creep 2529 02:46:31.600 --> 02:46:35.040 director Sam Lake, and he was saying that he gives up something when he's 2530 02:46:35.159 --> 02:46:39.239 letting the gamer, the player, decide when to switch between Osaga or alan 2531 02:46:39.319 --> 02:46:43.000 Wick. But he's also getting in return of the ability to like give that 2532 02:46:43.040 --> 02:46:48.479 player that full experience. They can have that agency to explore the world on 2533 02:46:48.520 --> 02:46:50.479 their own. And that's the same thing that like many games do anyway, 2534 02:46:50.559 --> 02:46:54.639 where you don't have a director telling the story and setting like the scene ends 2535 02:46:54.680 --> 02:47:00.280 here, coff Hair now next character and alan Wick two is just so much 2536 02:47:00.280 --> 02:47:03.319 more of like that open narrative experience that you were saying, Then, do 2537 02:47:03.360 --> 02:47:05.840 you guys think that you know, speaking of the long lead time, do 2538 02:47:05.840 --> 02:47:07.440 you think we get an industry that is going to be looking at allan Way 2539 02:47:07.440 --> 02:47:11.079 two as a way of doing things or is that intimidating to a certain kind 2540 02:47:11.120 --> 02:47:18.280 of studio intimidating but also looking forward to seeing the Alloway two spiritual successors in 2541 02:47:18.319 --> 02:47:22.079 ten years. Yeah, I mean a lot of the studios will try yeah, 2542 02:47:22.200 --> 02:47:24.719 right, Yeah, but it's also seems like you do have to have 2543 02:47:24.840 --> 02:47:28.680 that strong vision. You have to like again the many tools trying to do 2544 02:47:28.799 --> 02:47:31.799 one thing that's difficult if you don't have someone who knows exactly what they're going 2545 02:47:31.879 --> 02:47:35.799 for, right, and a lot of it as a flex because alan Way 2546 02:47:35.840 --> 02:47:39.799 two is only a game you can make with that team after having the experience 2547 02:47:39.959 --> 02:47:41.840 for doing this type of thing, like over twenty years, right, Palterers 2548 02:47:41.920 --> 02:47:45.959 Kate three is an example of a team building that up for over twenty years 2549 02:47:46.000 --> 02:47:50.399 and being a culmination and like building a taste for wanting that kind of game 2550 02:47:50.479 --> 02:47:52.120 of like I know a little bit of what I'm gonna get from remedy, 2551 02:47:52.479 --> 02:47:56.680 and maybe I want more of it and like they've done that time and time 2552 02:47:56.719 --> 02:47:58.760 again. It's like, now that's culminating in this alle way two where it's 2553 02:47:58.760 --> 02:48:01.520 like, no, we know exactly what we want for a remedy and they're 2554 02:48:01.520 --> 02:48:03.920 delivering it in a way that's better than ever refect. I don't want to 2555 02:48:03.920 --> 02:48:07.239 like, like, I think that we've spoken about a lot of games here 2556 02:48:07.280 --> 02:48:09.479 and there's one gaming game of the year that we haven't spoken about, which 2557 02:48:09.520 --> 02:48:11.959 is Spider Man two, and I think it speaks to that. Right, 2558 02:48:13.040 --> 02:48:16.399 we take that completely for granted how technically incredible that game is, because we're 2559 02:48:16.440 --> 02:48:18.399 going, WHOA just seen it in that, We've seen it in Spider Man, 2560 02:48:18.440 --> 02:48:22.280 We've seen it in you know, we just go that what that game 2561 02:48:22.319 --> 02:48:26.079 achieved talking about culmination of like them building and creating on something and no, 2562 02:48:26.200 --> 02:48:28.399 it doesn't take kind of like the same creative leaps in that way. But 2563 02:48:28.639 --> 02:48:33.680 you think about like what that is now for like it's it's built on the 2564 02:48:33.760 --> 02:48:35.959 Arkham series, it's built on itself, and it's created what is not just 2565 02:48:37.079 --> 02:48:43.000 a tech technical achievement also narrative from performance wise, like what Ury Lowenfelt is 2566 02:48:43.040 --> 02:48:46.920 doing in that game, and that is absolutely incredible you can feel the insomniac 2567 02:48:48.040 --> 02:48:50.239 DNA. Going back to like there are moments of Spider Man where you can 2568 02:48:50.319 --> 02:48:58.920 feel brashitting clang right, you can feel infamous, and then in that you 2569 02:48:58.000 --> 02:49:05.479 can feel psycho right like these I've got the red studio right, bunches. 2570 02:49:05.840 --> 02:49:07.799 Sorry, okay, you have the rest of you. I said the wrong 2571 02:49:07.840 --> 02:49:11.440 name. So many sort of the studios look alike. It's a lot like 2572 02:49:11.559 --> 02:49:20.719 Days Gone. I feel like that I'm riding a bike e reading the hog 2573 02:49:20.879 --> 02:49:24.959 exactly. Yeah, there's a look to the PlayStation exclusive. I see what 2574 02:49:24.959 --> 02:49:26.920 you're saying. Yeah, yeah, I just want to be like, don't 2575 02:49:26.959 --> 02:49:30.040 leave about Spider Man two. And I think we do take it for granted 2576 02:49:30.040 --> 02:49:31.440 a little bit because it doesn't seem to take this massive swings in the same 2577 02:49:31.479 --> 02:49:37.600 with aland wait does or was going to get I was going to get that 2578 02:49:37.719 --> 02:49:41.360 guy? Here you go. But yeah, I do think it's it's an 2579 02:49:41.360 --> 02:49:45.319 amazing achievement and it is again the same thing, a culmination of years and 2580 02:49:45.399 --> 02:49:48.799 years and years of you know, refining their craft and creating something that we 2581 02:49:48.959 --> 02:49:52.000 know, you know, like Spider Man two nominated for Game of the Year, 2582 02:49:52.040 --> 02:49:54.440 Spider Man one was not. I don't think it was. Yeah, 2583 02:49:54.479 --> 02:49:56.079 And it was like it didn't win a lot of Game of the Years, 2584 02:49:56.079 --> 02:49:58.799 and it's like for me, it was like, that's a studio just doing 2585 02:49:58.840 --> 02:50:03.280 the work making a game. Ask game, and it's like, but we 2586 02:50:03.360 --> 02:50:05.079 have a certain expectation per Game of the year. Spider Man. Spider Man 2587 02:50:05.200 --> 02:50:09.600 was in Red Dead two, Got a War. Yeah right, Spider Spider 2588 02:50:09.680 --> 02:50:16.079 spider Man was crazy with spider I said, and I'm not kidding, well, 2589 02:50:16.079 --> 02:50:18.959 like Spiders around was the same. It's God of War, Red Dead 2590 02:50:18.000 --> 02:50:22.799 Redemption too. So course the conversation. But that's like in one game, 2591 02:50:22.879 --> 02:50:26.959 but I always coming next to Fortnite. Yeah, yeah, right, that's 2592 02:50:26.959 --> 02:50:28.440 whatever. I think that those games are the ones that set the tone for 2593 02:50:28.520 --> 02:50:33.079 what's expected for game year and what Spider Man is doing something else. It 2594 02:50:33.159 --> 02:50:35.680 was also like it's sold like twenty million copies. It's like the best nine 2595 02:50:35.680 --> 02:50:37.639 out of ten you're ever going to play. That was kind of the rhetoric 2596 02:50:37.680 --> 02:50:39.879 and Sony game empes, and I think that's what insomny I got right, 2597 02:50:39.959 --> 02:50:41.879 is they make the best nine out of tens are ever going to play? 2598 02:50:43.319 --> 02:50:45.680 That was that that seemed to be the rhetoric around it. Is it ever 2599 02:50:45.760 --> 02:50:48.520 actually going to get like a ninety above metacritics, it's ever going to be 2600 02:50:48.719 --> 02:50:50.280 that ten out of ten and this one did, and it did and it's 2601 02:50:50.319 --> 02:50:54.719 amazing and yeah, completely did you know it? We all know it won't 2602 02:50:54.799 --> 02:50:58.319 win for the same reason that tis the Kingdom probably won't win. Well, 2603 02:50:58.399 --> 02:51:01.479 I mean, or we've said the games were mentioned Super Mario Brothers Wonder a 2604 02:51:01.520 --> 02:51:05.159 game is going to get the same boat. Yes, yes, it yeah, 2605 02:51:05.239 --> 02:51:07.319 yeah, but I mean it's like that game is doing a very specific 2606 02:51:07.399 --> 02:51:09.879 thing that we've seen before, but it's you know, there's some like from 2607 02:51:09.959 --> 02:51:13.479 software inspired multiplayer stuff in there that's like amazing, And it's like for me, 2608 02:51:13.680 --> 02:51:16.000 I don't know if I had a better experience playing games this year than 2609 02:51:16.040 --> 02:51:18.639 Mario Wonder when I just like look at like, oh, we raced in 2610 02:51:18.719 --> 02:51:22.159 a bunch of levels, and well I want a bunch so obviously that helps, 2611 02:51:22.760 --> 02:51:24.799 but it's like, I don't know, just have those experiences in sharing 2612 02:51:24.840 --> 02:51:26.760 it with someone for the first time. It's like, oh man, I'm 2613 02:51:26.760 --> 02:51:30.159 playing to Mario and I'm this is a complete stranger and we're experiencing these levels 2614 02:51:30.159 --> 02:51:33.000 together. And I know games have done that before, but there's something different 2615 02:51:33.040 --> 02:51:35.280 when the context is now Mario that was really powerful. So yeah, yeah, 2616 02:51:35.280 --> 02:51:39.040 I mean I think it goes back to games aren't doing a lot. 2617 02:51:39.200 --> 02:51:41.040 A lot of games are being figured out, and a lot of great, 2618 02:51:41.079 --> 02:51:43.520 great studios are doing great things, and it's a really good year for games, 2619 02:51:43.840 --> 02:51:46.840 and it's like, man, we go back to is it sustainable? 2620 02:51:46.840 --> 02:51:48.799 I think for the kinds of games we're getting from these studios, yes, 2621 02:51:48.920 --> 02:51:50.959 clearly. It's like, man, while the question marks are still out there, 2622 02:51:52.000 --> 02:51:54.680 I think most part, I mean, gaming's got it mostly in a 2623 02:51:54.719 --> 02:51:56.879 good place. One last thing to mention as far as like really cool games 2624 02:51:56.920 --> 02:52:01.360 that got made this year and I Survivor, Yes, I'm playing that right 2625 02:52:01.399 --> 02:52:03.360 now. I was on that team. They didn't fantastic. I'm very, 2626 02:52:03.440 --> 02:52:07.440 very very proud of them. You shouldn't weren't on the team. I was 2627 02:52:07.520 --> 02:52:09.760 not yet. Yeah. Oh not on that too. I don't want to 2628 02:52:09.760 --> 02:52:13.120 take credit because I know they did really really well, that you inspired them, 2629 02:52:13.159 --> 02:52:15.879 of course. Yeah, yeah, I'm there whenever they're feeling down. 2630 02:52:16.000 --> 02:52:22.000 Yeah, on the zoom call. It's like a Tim Schaeffer credit in a 2631 02:52:22.840 --> 02:52:26.680 Star Wars racer where it's like, did not actively sabotage the game. Yeah, 2632 02:52:26.399 --> 02:52:28.120 all right on that, we're gonna get out of here. Thanks for 2633 02:52:28.159 --> 02:52:31.239 hanging out with me, friends, appreciate, except for you Ben. You 2634 02:52:31.360 --> 02:52:35.239 know what you did till next time. Ever, in about fifteen minutes, 2635 02:52:35.239 --> 02:52:52.319 we'll see it then, fine, I love so Apparently it's Sonic the Hedgehog. 2636 02:52:52.559 --> 02:52:58.239 You run fast. This is the strategy that broke in here that long 2637 02:52:58.319 --> 02:53:03.360 to say that we're back live Giant Bomb Los Angeles Game of the Year, 2638 02:53:03.360 --> 02:53:05.680 spectacular. Thank you every pretty to tune it in. It's been a great 2639 02:53:05.760 --> 02:53:07.799 night so far. Got a couple more panels for you brought to you. 2640 02:53:09.280 --> 02:53:13.000 Thank thankfully, probably like a dragon infit it well, thanks to these guys 2641 02:53:13.079 --> 02:53:16.239 right here. The crotches of hours will be referred to them all night. 2642 02:53:16.719 --> 02:53:18.920 They're still with me, and they will be all night. As Willis's next 2643 02:53:18.959 --> 02:53:22.959 panel, Hanging Out with Me started with ashta crawl. How's it going man? 2644 02:53:22.040 --> 02:53:24.879 Hey? Yeah? You doing man? Pretty good? Glad you're here. 2645 02:53:24.079 --> 02:53:26.840 Yeah, yeah, yes, you're one of our returning guests from six 2646 02:53:26.879 --> 02:53:31.559 months ago. Yes, yeah, it was a Save Studios name duck. 2647 02:53:31.840 --> 02:53:35.159 Actually, I'm very happy to see that the duck was still there. Yeah, 2648 02:53:35.239 --> 02:53:39.799 but most of what we had last time, Gone Duck remained David Kim. 2649 02:53:39.959 --> 02:53:43.319 Yeah you got you guys worked together, right, Yes, yeah, 2650 02:53:43.319 --> 02:53:45.440 we'll get into a little bit, but yeah, I treat you day. 2651 02:53:45.639 --> 02:53:48.120 Yeah forne Yeah absolutely, thanks for the night. Yeah, anytime, lots 2652 02:53:48.120 --> 02:53:52.920 of hours from Sega. Yessy here, I invited you before I had any 2653 02:53:52.920 --> 02:53:56.920 idea that Saga's sponsor anywhere. It looks weird, but I'm here. I 2654 02:53:56.959 --> 02:54:01.680 don't care. Yeah, I'm happy or here as well. Yeah, Andres 2655 02:54:01.760 --> 02:54:05.639 claps right, yeah, ye, and you are the developer of the Case 2656 02:54:05.760 --> 02:54:09.799 of the Golden Idol. Yeah cool. Also yes, one of my favorite 2657 02:54:09.840 --> 02:54:15.000 games. Seriously, I was a huge fan. Absolutely, and then set 2658 02:54:16.120 --> 02:54:18.840 Roseneth rose in. Yeah. From one of the developers of Pacific Drive Drive 2659 02:54:18.879 --> 02:54:22.879 Yes, and Alexander Dracottah Drake Cot. Yes, I'm so I'm telling these 2660 02:54:24.079 --> 02:54:26.959 people right before, like this is thet hid of the night where the names 2661 02:54:26.959 --> 02:54:28.360 are just gonna slip out of the play, just right out of the ear. 2662 02:54:30.799 --> 02:54:31.520 Start with you, Ash, how are things going? You got like 2663 02:54:31.600 --> 02:54:35.079 you've got a new job since last time? Right I did? I did 2664 02:54:35.479 --> 02:54:39.159 we know the last job had left and had joined Uncapped Games. Uncapped Games 2665 02:54:39.239 --> 02:54:43.600 is a studio that was founded about two and a half years ago by David 2666 02:54:43.680 --> 02:54:46.239 Kim. He was the lead multiplayer designer on StarCraft two uh, and he's 2667 02:54:46.239 --> 02:54:50.959 a senior game director over at un Captain. We're looking to really revolutionize the 2668 02:54:50.079 --> 02:54:54.879 RTS genre, but we're still working on things at the moment. But yeah, 2669 02:54:54.920 --> 02:54:58.239 we're we've just basically been starting to build out the rest of the publishing 2670 02:54:58.319 --> 02:55:01.000 org. So that's why I was hired on to kind of had that up. 2671 02:55:01.239 --> 02:55:05.360 Yeah, what's uh, publish your work? I know, I knew 2672 02:55:05.680 --> 02:55:09.760 what's that look like From a business side, that's like your community, your 2673 02:55:09.799 --> 02:55:13.000 brand, marketing, performance marketing, PR. From there, there's some other 2674 02:55:13.040 --> 02:55:16.799 things like data analysis and things of that nature too, so we're more of 2675 02:55:16.879 --> 02:55:24.159 the business side of the development team. So yeah, I found it there. 2676 02:55:24.239 --> 02:55:28.120 We go, all right, yeah, when you when you're now analysis 2677 02:55:28.360 --> 02:55:31.600 analyzing excuse me, the data? What to say right now? For RTSs? 2678 02:55:31.799 --> 02:55:35.600 What's say now? For artists? I think that the genre has had 2679 02:55:35.799 --> 02:55:39.959 a bit of a quiet time, so I say it, but we're looking 2680 02:55:39.040 --> 02:55:43.239 to change that a little bit. And I think that, you know, 2681 02:55:43.280 --> 02:55:46.079 we have a lot of let's call it inspirations from the different genre from and 2682 02:55:46.479 --> 02:55:50.840 that inspiration, I would say is actually for us as our ambition. If 2683 02:55:50.840 --> 02:55:54.920 you think about something like what World of Warcraft did for MMOs, what League 2684 02:55:54.920 --> 02:55:58.719 of Legends for mobives, or what personal different card games. I think our 2685 02:55:58.799 --> 02:56:01.399 goal was to really see if we can try and do the same thing for 2686 02:56:01.479 --> 02:56:05.559 the artis Ghana and bring it back in a big way. And David and 2687 02:56:05.639 --> 02:56:09.639 our incredible development team have been working really hard. So you can actually expound 2688 02:56:09.639 --> 02:56:11.719 about that a little bit more if you want. Yeah, absolutely, So, 2689 02:56:11.879 --> 02:56:13.000 Like I mean when you got started with like was the vision, like, 2690 02:56:13.079 --> 02:56:16.040 man, there was a good timeh StarCraft two was happening, and I 2691 02:56:16.120 --> 02:56:18.680 want to bring that back or is it there more to it? So it's 2692 02:56:18.680 --> 02:56:22.799 a little bit different, but I do want to say StarCraft two was one 2693 02:56:22.840 --> 02:56:28.280 of my I guess the favorite game of all time for me kind of thing. 2694 02:56:28.399 --> 02:56:31.239 Yeah, But when I was working on StarCraft two, maybe for almost 2695 02:56:31.319 --> 02:56:35.879 ten years now, I've been kind of wanting to take a stab that kind 2696 02:56:35.920 --> 02:56:41.120 of that game design of that next game, one that not only appeals to 2697 02:56:41.280 --> 02:56:45.799 arts players but also everyone else, many players who may have been intimidated by 2698 02:56:46.479 --> 02:56:50.120 an arts game kind of thing. Right, So when this opportunity came up 2699 02:56:50.200 --> 02:56:52.280 to kind of take that stab. I just had to do it right. 2700 02:56:52.319 --> 02:56:54.760 Like I love Blizzard, right, Like I've been there thirteen and a half 2701 02:56:54.840 --> 02:56:58.239 years, So it was kind of like a big first world problem, you 2702 02:56:58.280 --> 02:57:01.879 can say. Right, on the one hand, my favorite game company of 2703 02:57:01.920 --> 02:57:05.040 all time working there, I'm super happy there kind of thing. Right on 2704 02:57:05.159 --> 02:57:07.319 the other it's like, ah, but this was my dream for the last 2705 02:57:07.360 --> 02:57:09.799 ten years. I really have to go for a kind of thing, right, 2706 02:57:11.920 --> 02:57:16.319 And I kind of want to say, I think the making something like 2707 02:57:16.479 --> 02:57:24.000 this it's really about core individuals who really have their own area expertise, and 2708 02:57:24.280 --> 02:57:28.440 these individuals coming together as a team that makes something like this happen, right. 2709 02:57:28.760 --> 02:57:33.520 And we've been really kind of heads down trying to build a game that 2710 02:57:33.680 --> 02:57:37.639 is ready for the public player testing so that we can get to I guess 2711 02:57:37.680 --> 02:57:41.200 the real fun part where the I guess the magic really happens where we work 2712 02:57:41.239 --> 02:57:45.959 together with the community, the player base, and we really nail down what 2713 02:57:46.079 --> 02:57:48.200 do we get right, what do you get wrong? Things like that. 2714 02:57:48.000 --> 02:57:52.680 So this is where we've been at. But it's been super exciting so far, 2715 02:57:52.000 --> 02:57:56.600 and like I guess, looking at next year, getting ready for that. 2716 02:57:56.719 --> 02:58:01.239 I guess public player testing, it's super exciting times, I guess, 2717 02:58:01.319 --> 02:58:03.879 right, like the stream's coming true kind of thing. Yeah, And like 2718 02:58:03.159 --> 02:58:07.000 we were just talking to another arts developer and like saying, it does feel 2719 02:58:07.040 --> 02:58:09.159 like a genre that is primed to come back in a big way. Like 2720 02:58:09.239 --> 02:58:13.040 people didn't get sick of RTS is they were just like there was nothing left 2721 02:58:13.079 --> 02:58:16.360 for them, Like the barrel had been scraped, Like I want more? 2722 02:58:16.520 --> 02:58:20.040 Where is it? How do you sort of navigate that? Yeah. One 2723 02:58:20.079 --> 02:58:22.159 thing I'd say too, is like it's really exciting to see some of the 2724 02:58:22.239 --> 02:58:26.680 other developers have their take on what the RT genre is. I think we 2725 02:58:26.799 --> 02:58:28.959 have a very different take in that we want to try to expand to as 2726 02:58:30.079 --> 02:58:33.000 large of an audience as possible. And I mean, I kind of tell 2727 02:58:33.000 --> 02:58:35.399 you since I've been on the team, seeing the passion of the development team 2728 02:58:35.680 --> 02:58:39.040 that has a tremendous amount of experience. We've got members in our team like 2729 02:58:39.120 --> 02:58:43.200 over thirty percent that were part of that Craft series of development at Blizzard, 2730 02:58:43.719 --> 02:58:48.280 whether that's Warcraft or StarCraft, and then so many others that worked on different 2731 02:58:48.280 --> 02:58:48.959 games. I don't know if you want to expound upon that a little bit, 2732 02:58:50.000 --> 02:58:52.079 but yeah, yeah, for sure. Maybe before that, I kind 2733 02:58:52.120 --> 02:58:58.399 of want to add, so the reason why I think you bring up a 2734 02:58:58.440 --> 02:59:01.399 good point, right, the reason why I think it is primed for like 2735 02:59:01.479 --> 02:59:05.799 a return or whatever you want to consurgence, I guess yes, because I 2736 02:59:05.840 --> 02:59:11.040 guess my personal take is if you look at a traditional arts game, right, 2737 02:59:11.079 --> 02:59:13.559 and I told you, like one of my favorite games of all time 2738 02:59:13.600 --> 02:59:16.479 in StarCraft two, one of my top three games of all time is StarCraft 2739 02:59:16.559 --> 02:59:20.399 one kind of thing, right, But when I look at those games and 2740 02:59:22.000 --> 02:59:26.000 look at the difficulty of like you have to I always say, like, 2741 02:59:26.200 --> 02:59:30.959 you have to practice these drills for number of years X number of years, 2742 02:59:31.280 --> 02:59:33.680 then you can experience the core fund kind of thing, right, And I 2743 02:59:33.840 --> 02:59:39.120 just have a hard time believing that that is the peak of RTS kind of 2744 02:59:39.159 --> 02:59:41.879 thing, right, So if you want to take that next step where players 2745 02:59:41.920 --> 02:59:45.760 can get to that core fund much faster than any other arts game ever made 2746 02:59:45.760 --> 02:59:48.079 before, things like that, and then going back to what you were saying, 2747 02:59:48.000 --> 02:59:50.040 it also goes back to one of the things that I was saying, 2748 02:59:50.040 --> 02:59:54.879 which is, at the end of the day, making a good game, 2749 02:59:54.959 --> 03:00:01.399 I think that their minimum piece is specific core Individuals have the area of expertise, 2750 03:00:01.920 --> 03:00:05.879 especially within this one space kind of thing. So I guess we can 2751 03:00:05.000 --> 03:00:09.479 name Mini here, right, But one of them, I guess is Luke 2752 03:00:09.559 --> 03:00:13.479 Manchini. He's one of our concept artists on the team, and the story 2753 03:00:13.559 --> 03:00:18.479 behind him is quite interesting to me, right because at Blizzard back then, 2754 03:00:18.840 --> 03:00:22.600 like I don't know, twenty ten or something like this, right, I've 2755 03:00:22.719 --> 03:00:26.319 never seen anyone be poached by Blizard because at that time, I want to 2756 03:00:26.319 --> 03:00:30.959 say, like Blizer was kind of at the top of the food n Yeah, 2757 03:00:31.040 --> 03:00:35.479 so we were all like dying to get to Blacher, like even with 2758 03:00:35.559 --> 03:00:37.600 a pay cut, even with a title cut kind of thing like. That 2759 03:00:37.680 --> 03:00:41.120 was the atmosphere. And then this guy like Blizer poached, like he asked 2760 03:00:41.200 --> 03:00:45.639 him to like the company asked him to join Blizier kind of thing, right. 2761 03:00:46.000 --> 03:00:48.760 And then the other fun story is in twenty eleven, when we were 2762 03:00:48.799 --> 03:00:54.799 working on StarCraft Hard the Swarm expansion, he asked me like, hey, 2763 03:00:54.840 --> 03:00:56.559 would you like to pick when I'm going to dry at bliz Con in my 2764 03:00:58.120 --> 03:01:00.719 drying demo session kind of thing, right, And I'm like, oh, 2765 03:01:00.760 --> 03:01:03.479 I'd be so honored, right, because you're my favorite concept artists at the 2766 03:01:03.520 --> 03:01:05.239 whole company. Kind of thing, right, And so I picked the hell 2767 03:01:05.280 --> 03:01:09.200 That, which was one of the hardest form units. He threw that, 2768 03:01:09.520 --> 03:01:11.840 and he gave me a file of it. I put it on my desktop 2769 03:01:11.040 --> 03:01:13.719 and today, like twelve years later, it is still on my desktop. 2770 03:01:13.959 --> 03:01:18.319 Ending right, that's how much I respect his or religious skills kind of thing 2771 03:01:18.399 --> 03:01:20.639 right. Anything other examples, Yeah, the only thing I would say there 2772 03:01:20.680 --> 03:01:24.120 is that with so many people that are passionate about this genre that I've worked 2773 03:01:24.159 --> 03:01:30.120 on those games as well as things like Minecraft Legends more recently, or a 2774 03:01:30.200 --> 03:01:33.399 Company of Heroes. The idea is taking some of the principles that have been 2775 03:01:33.440 --> 03:01:35.840 done in the past, but then finding the ways moving forward to make the 2776 03:01:35.959 --> 03:01:39.239 genre relevant. I think that's what you were talking about earlier, moving forward 2777 03:01:39.280 --> 03:01:41.479 and making it so that as many people can enjoy it as possible. And 2778 03:01:41.440 --> 03:01:43.479 you know, I think we're poised to do that. We have some work 2779 03:01:43.520 --> 03:01:48.120 to do, but we're looking really hard to see how we can incorporate the 2780 03:01:48.159 --> 03:01:52.079 community and work with them. And right here, that does that mean like 2781 03:01:52.159 --> 03:01:54.920 early access and like I'm kind of just taking it easy or is that still 2782 03:01:56.360 --> 03:01:58.840 to be determined. I think there's a process that we're reviewing right now, 2783 03:02:00.000 --> 03:02:01.239 you run to roll things out and we'll we work with and will it makes 2784 03:02:01.280 --> 03:02:05.040 sense, But we'll be talking about that pretty soon. But right now we're 2785 03:02:05.040 --> 03:02:07.399 just excited playing the internal builds and then having a bunch of fun. Yeah, 2786 03:02:07.440 --> 03:02:11.000 for sure, Alexa, there's been a lot of Sonic games. What's 2787 03:02:11.040 --> 03:02:16.840 going on over Yeah, we had a really good year this year. Yeah. 2788 03:02:16.959 --> 03:02:20.559 Yeah, the Apple Arcade game just came out, Like what was that? 2789 03:02:20.719 --> 03:02:22.520 Like? What was it like? Kind of making that happen? How 2790 03:02:22.639 --> 03:02:26.920 is it different when it's promoting something like that. Yeah, that campaign was 2791 03:02:28.040 --> 03:02:33.959 actually really interesting to work with. Apple is a great partner. They were 2792 03:02:33.000 --> 03:02:43.719 super smoothly. I was brought on not late in campaign, but we were 2793 03:02:45.600 --> 03:02:50.520 brought in. That was pretty quick in terms of a gang in campaign. 2794 03:02:50.840 --> 03:02:58.040 And I know, we announced November first and then we launched a little over 2795 03:02:58.120 --> 03:03:01.120 a month later, So it was a pretty quick turnaround, is it. 2796 03:03:03.760 --> 03:03:05.799 It doesn't seem like there do anything wrong with that these days? Right, 2797 03:03:05.840 --> 03:03:09.040 a quick turnaround on a game announcement getting released the back of the day. 2798 03:03:09.040 --> 03:03:11.040 It was like, no, two years. We got to build preors, 2799 03:03:11.120 --> 03:03:15.680 pre orders for Forever and that's the whole the whole game needs to happen right 2800 03:03:15.680 --> 03:03:18.159 there on that first weekend. Now it's like, nope, we're gonna tell 2801 03:03:18.159 --> 03:03:18.799 you about it, and you're gonna be excited about it. And here it 2802 03:03:18.879 --> 03:03:22.120 is a couple of months later. In this case, was less than that. 2803 03:03:22.399 --> 03:03:24.479 But it's like it doesn't seem like it hurts the game in any way, 2804 03:03:24.600 --> 03:03:28.799 right, No, No, And I think we knew that we had 2805 03:03:30.079 --> 03:03:39.319 a good game, solid game, and Sega hard Light is pretty good games 2806 03:03:39.399 --> 03:03:46.079 and pretty good track record forces, so it was they were amazing to work 2807 03:03:46.120 --> 03:03:52.040 with as well, and so they made the whole process very easy also. 2808 03:03:52.360 --> 03:04:00.760 And yeah, it has been amazing to see the reception I think, Yeah, 2809 03:04:00.879 --> 03:04:09.120 launching yesterday, Yeah, seeing everybody just be extremely happy, and yeah, 2810 03:04:09.239 --> 03:04:11.879 looking forward to see all their reactions. Yeah, for sure. Is 2811 03:04:11.920 --> 03:04:18.479 it kind I think where it's because it's on a device, devices like phones 2812 03:04:18.520 --> 03:04:22.200 that are so accessible that it's like, oh, a lot of us just 2813 03:04:22.239 --> 03:04:24.280 take care of it, takes care of itself. Where it's like it's going 2814 03:04:24.360 --> 03:04:26.319 to be right in front of people. We just got to remind them. 2815 03:04:28.680 --> 03:04:33.559 I think that. But also it is pretty on the go in terms of 2816 03:04:33.719 --> 03:04:35.879 you can play on your phone, you can also play on the Mac. 2817 03:04:35.959 --> 03:04:41.520 You can play on the Apple TV. I played on the Apple TV with 2818 03:04:41.639 --> 03:04:50.000 the controller and it played amazing. It was super smooth. And I think 2819 03:04:50.559 --> 03:04:52.959 also being able to play on the iPad to the iPhone, just having that 2820 03:04:54.040 --> 03:04:56.879 accessibility and that being able to take it on the go, it just makes 2821 03:04:56.920 --> 03:05:03.040 it even more accessible to be andres when it comes to getting attention to a 2822 03:05:03.079 --> 03:05:05.440 case of the Golden Idol in the first place, what was that process? 2823 03:05:05.559 --> 03:05:13.239 Like? That was horrible? We we we when we didn't publisher, we 2824 03:05:13.319 --> 03:05:16.920 build a demo and we decided okay. Uh. In the past, I've 2825 03:05:16.920 --> 03:05:20.799 made many mistakes where we've been building a game like for one year or two 2826 03:05:20.879 --> 03:05:22.120 years, and then it flops and then you build the next one for one 2827 03:05:22.399 --> 03:05:26.120 two years. This time I said, okay, you're gonna build no more 2828 03:05:26.159 --> 03:05:31.360 than four months development and then we validate and if it if it doesn't work, 2829 03:05:31.360 --> 03:05:33.319 we throw it out, like like, let's be very fail fast, 2830 03:05:35.840 --> 03:05:41.680 so build the demo. Honest. I tried marketing on the internet, going 2831 03:05:41.760 --> 03:05:46.760 posting in Facebook groups that it's discords and like, very minimal traction, little 2832 03:05:46.879 --> 03:05:52.479 interest those developer these cod groups, there are only developers who want to show 2833 03:05:52.520 --> 03:05:56.200 their game, right, No, nobody wants to see any other game, 2834 03:05:58.159 --> 03:06:03.559 and I'm kind of like I know of the struggle of months. It is 2835 03:06:03.600 --> 03:06:07.639 also very difficult to communicate for the games about because the main action happens in 2836 03:06:07.680 --> 03:06:11.879 your cab. It's not very visual. You can't make a fun gift out 2837 03:06:11.959 --> 03:06:15.479 of yeah all the niles right, Like gifts are like a game dev Gift 2838 03:06:15.600 --> 03:06:18.000 Saturday or whatever, where it's like, if your game shows off good in 2839 03:06:18.040 --> 03:06:20.799 a gift, that's half the battle right there. And the game doesn't show 2840 03:06:20.799 --> 03:06:22.879 off good and gifts, right, it just doesn't. It doesn't. Yeah, 2841 03:06:22.920 --> 03:06:26.159 I tried. I tried, like like a montage like, oh, 2842 03:06:26.319 --> 03:06:30.719 there's a dead body, who's the guilty one buttler that on? That doesn't 2843 03:06:30.760 --> 03:06:35.120 what nobody cares And we almost gave up, but then we thought, huh, 2844 03:06:35.319 --> 03:06:39.159 all this stay next first around the corner, let's wait for that. 2845 03:06:41.399 --> 03:06:45.639 And after that one some pickup appeared, and then we decided, okay, 2846 03:06:45.680 --> 03:06:50.639 we need to publisher and the luckily Lucas Pope had and losked us and publishers 2847 03:06:50.639 --> 03:06:56.680 got interested and yeah, and then plays that courted us and we like them 2848 03:06:56.760 --> 03:07:00.760 as well. What was it? How did Lucas find game? Lucas Pope 2849 03:07:01.440 --> 03:07:03.799 I sent him an email. Uh, it was also kind of like wild 2850 03:07:03.879 --> 03:07:07.000 idea, like sure, the game is heavily influenced by it. But then 2851 03:07:07.159 --> 03:07:11.600 so I sent him, Hey, he has a game influenced by your He 2852 03:07:11.159 --> 03:07:15.760 responded the same day, not a couple like, I think five or four 2853 03:07:15.920 --> 03:07:18.120 hours later, and said, oh, I played it. Oh it's really 2854 03:07:18.159 --> 03:07:24.000 good. I like your ideas. And I was like Smith and I really 2855 03:07:24.120 --> 03:07:28.879 needed that model boost after all that struggle failing to market it. That's like 2856 03:07:30.120 --> 03:07:31.760 not something you can write down at a textbook about how to get a game 2857 03:07:31.799 --> 03:07:35.040 pad right. Just talk to Lucas po That's not an object, but it's 2858 03:07:35.079 --> 03:07:37.680 like it does show that you have to just try a bunch of different things 2859 03:07:39.120 --> 03:07:41.200 and you never know what's going to work right. Because if that had not 2860 03:07:41.360 --> 03:07:45.159 happened, if Lucas Pope had not responded, what do you think would have 2861 03:07:45.159 --> 03:07:48.879 happened with the game? Who knows? Yeah, I don't know how much 2862 03:07:48.920 --> 03:07:52.840 of an effect it had, sure unpublished decision, But if I had had 2863 03:07:52.879 --> 03:07:56.719 to give an advice at this point, I think reaching out to starts is 2864 03:07:56.760 --> 03:08:01.239 definitely due because many are super excessive and I'm super nice, and secondly, 2865 03:08:01.920 --> 03:08:09.239 reach out to communities which like similar games because like over than that love that 2866 03:08:09.920 --> 03:08:13.120 adventure games, so that it also like tracked. Well uh yeah, these 2867 03:08:13.120 --> 03:08:16.559 are a few things that worked out of this months of misery. Yeah. 2868 03:08:18.639 --> 03:08:22.719 So when it comes to like the game is it does find some success and 2869 03:08:22.840 --> 03:08:26.200 it gets attention and you're like, okay, now we're going to support it. 2870 03:08:26.280 --> 03:08:28.600 How you like come to the decision to make DLC and things like that. 2871 03:08:28.719 --> 03:08:31.840 I think it's kind of like this easy, cheap way out. Okay, 2872 03:08:31.920 --> 03:08:35.600 we need to do something next. We're not going to build a new 2873 03:08:35.799 --> 03:08:37.680 game right out of the box site like we have a game here, Let's 2874 03:08:37.719 --> 03:08:41.120 build a dl say. I think when you don't know what to do, 2875 03:08:41.200 --> 03:08:46.440 you just build a l like this. It's all the first in the game. 2876 03:08:46.959 --> 03:08:48.840 Most of the time, we don't know what's doing. How's the experience 2877 03:08:48.920 --> 03:08:52.200 getting attention for that different than the first time around? Getting attention for the 2878 03:08:52.239 --> 03:08:54.879 game? Was it a lot easier? People like oh I do want to 2879 03:08:54.879 --> 03:09:00.680 see this now? They were they coming to you? Uh, I think 2880 03:09:00.719 --> 03:09:05.479 it's getting easier. Yeah, so I'm maybe because there are some champions like 2881 03:09:05.559 --> 03:09:13.000 like Josh like like he just takes anything. So so now yeah, now 2882 03:09:13.120 --> 03:09:16.600 people actually some people know what's what's gold to night. Also, these got 2883 03:09:16.680 --> 03:09:24.200 thing easy, hopefully go get easier and easier. Seth, you guys have 2884 03:09:24.280 --> 03:09:26.920 been on the grind of showing up Pacific Drive. We saw you guys at 2885 03:09:28.000 --> 03:09:30.959 packs. H. What's that been? Like, how's it going? What 2886 03:09:31.440 --> 03:09:35.040 lessons learned? Things like that? H? Great? Yeah, Packs was 2887 03:09:35.040 --> 03:09:39.520 great. We showed the game at Packs Stand PACKSWS this year, and you 2888 03:09:39.559 --> 03:09:41.280 know, it's the first time that we're gonna getting the game into like the 2889 03:09:41.319 --> 03:09:45.559 public stands in a serious way, and that's that's always really exciting. And 2890 03:09:46.399 --> 03:09:50.600 the experience we put together for that is like not not even really the full 2891 03:09:50.680 --> 03:09:52.680 game loop. It's just like dumping players right into a level and like get 2892 03:09:52.760 --> 03:09:56.879 in the car and go, because you know, you want people to see 2893 03:09:56.920 --> 03:10:01.120 the exciting stuff pretty quick. And you know, in the lead up to 2894 03:10:01.600 --> 03:10:05.360 each of those shows, we would be heavily testing the game and having the 2895 03:10:05.440 --> 03:10:11.239 whole team like bang on this twenty minute demo and on day five of doing 2896 03:10:11.360 --> 03:10:15.920 that, like people are having new experiences, even with like a relatively small 2897 03:10:15.920 --> 03:10:20.760 amount of randomness within that experience, and just like getting to see the ways 2898 03:10:20.840 --> 03:10:26.200 that this game really generates stories and and kind of right is an engine pun 2899 03:10:26.280 --> 03:10:31.319 intended for a drama and comedy has been really really exciting, and you know, 2900 03:10:31.520 --> 03:10:35.280 it speaks for itself, like you know, Alex and all the visuals 2901 03:10:35.319 --> 03:10:37.920 he's put together, I think gets a lot of people in the door, 2902 03:10:37.000 --> 03:10:39.840 like it's it's pretty eye catching. But then when you get your hands on 2903 03:10:39.879 --> 03:10:43.559 it and feel kind of the way to the car and feel it spin out 2904 03:10:43.639 --> 03:10:48.559 and forget to put the parking brake on and watch it roll down a hill 2905 03:10:48.920 --> 03:10:52.799 as you're trying to collect some resources, it just it just sort of like 2906 03:10:52.879 --> 03:10:58.360 immediately is sticky in that way, and like you realize how how many exciting 2907 03:10:58.440 --> 03:11:03.760 and horrible adventures you can have with this car. Right, the game first 2908 03:11:03.840 --> 03:11:07.639 got revealed, if I'm remembering right in a PlayStation state of play, Yes, 2909 03:11:07.399 --> 03:11:11.200 yeah, when you got the packs and you were showing the game up, 2910 03:11:11.200 --> 03:11:13.200 how many people were like, oh, I remember seeing this in the 2911 03:11:13.200 --> 03:11:15.120 state of play, And how many people are like, no, I'm just 2912 03:11:15.200 --> 03:11:18.399 here for packs. This is my first time seeing it. It says a 2913 03:11:18.479 --> 03:11:20.760 pretty good mix, Like we definitely have folks that have started following the game 2914 03:11:20.799 --> 03:11:24.319 when we first revealed it, right, but it's you know, it's packs 2915 03:11:24.399 --> 03:11:28.440 right, there's so many people, especially like PEX West. This year was 2916 03:11:28.959 --> 03:11:31.760 huge. Yeah, there were a lot of folks coming to check out the 2917 03:11:31.799 --> 03:11:33.360 game, and you know, I don't know what it is. Some folks 2918 03:11:33.440 --> 03:11:35.959 adamantly did not even want to hear about it from us and just wanted to 2919 03:11:37.000 --> 03:11:39.559 sit down, sure, check out the game, figure out what it was 2920 03:11:39.840 --> 03:11:43.760 and was it. You guys built a build that could support that, so 2921 03:11:43.799 --> 03:11:45.600 the people just sit down and figure it out on their own. You guys 2922 03:11:45.600 --> 03:11:48.879 were ready for that. Yeah, yeah, you know it's funny like as 2923 03:11:48.879 --> 03:11:52.520 we were get getting the build ready and figuring out what this deema was, 2924 03:11:52.639 --> 03:11:56.159 like, a lot of the members of our team like wanted to really kind 2925 03:11:56.200 --> 03:11:58.959 of curate what that experience was. And so my background is that previously had 2926 03:12:00.000 --> 03:12:03.680 worked or not most recently, but previously worked on Don't Starve and got a 2927 03:12:03.719 --> 03:12:09.120 lot of experience from that of just like you can trust players a lot and 2928 03:12:09.319 --> 03:12:13.600 just let them find their fun. Like they'll they'll find whatever aspect of the 2929 03:12:13.680 --> 03:12:18.079 game is appealing to them and pull on that thread and like, you know, 2930 03:12:18.159 --> 03:12:20.319 you want to you want to like have have kind of a pop at 2931 03:12:20.360 --> 03:12:24.520 the end of the demo, like make it make an exciting climax, but 2932 03:12:24.680 --> 03:12:28.280 it's like if a player wants to see the car turn around, go into 2933 03:12:28.280 --> 03:12:33.440 the gas station and spend ten minutes rooting around in containers and searching for stuff. 2934 03:12:33.639 --> 03:12:37.399 Great, that's I'm and you know it takes a little bit of uh 2935 03:12:37.959 --> 03:12:45.000 experience and stupidity maybe to be comfortable with that, but it paid dividends in 2936 03:12:45.040 --> 03:12:50.159 this case. Like you know, we were seeing like seeing people come back 2937 03:12:50.280 --> 03:12:54.920 and playing it multiple times and like really challenging themselves to uh make make a 2938 03:12:54.959 --> 03:12:58.840 successful run or or like you know, like if they get a nitro boost, 2939 03:13:00.079 --> 03:13:01.520 like see what kind of fun they can have with that. You know 2940 03:13:01.680 --> 03:13:05.440 there there are people trying to do like no no gas pedal runs sure, 2941 03:13:05.639 --> 03:13:11.200 and stuff like that got me thinking. So like when it comes down to 2942 03:13:11.760 --> 03:13:16.280 what's goin analyzing the data of like okay, we had successive packs that people 2943 03:13:16.399 --> 03:13:18.879 enjoyed it. What does what does that turn into? Does that turn in 2944 03:13:18.959 --> 03:13:22.159 word of mouth? Can you measure that? I mean you can definitely track 2945 03:13:22.399 --> 03:13:26.600 some things right like the steam wishless or some sure like that we can see, 2946 03:13:26.639 --> 03:13:30.079 but the uh, you know, on the on the flip side, 2947 03:13:30.079 --> 03:13:31.440 it is like watching our community girl, like we have we have a community 2948 03:13:31.479 --> 03:13:35.399 discord watching that just grow in size and people, especially after those events, 2949 03:13:35.479 --> 03:13:39.440 starting to share what it was like to play the game whatever that didn't have 2950 03:13:39.559 --> 03:13:43.319 that opportunity, and that's super exciting. But then, you know, on 2951 03:13:43.399 --> 03:13:45.719 the flip side is on the developer side, right, So we got to 2952 03:13:45.799 --> 03:13:50.520 see a bunch of people play the game, but it was revealing. It's 2953 03:13:50.600 --> 03:13:54.319 revealing and surprising and fun and scary and and you know that gets you know, 2954 03:13:54.440 --> 03:13:56.840 information for us to go back, and we ended up just making a 2955 03:13:56.879 --> 03:14:01.959 giant page where you know, folks that we're working at the show, we're 2956 03:14:01.040 --> 03:14:03.760 just like watch people play, like, oh, it's someone was struggling with 2957 03:14:03.840 --> 03:14:07.879 this thing, and we can take that and go back and make it a 2958 03:14:07.879 --> 03:14:09.239 little bit better. What was the big thing when you guys got back to 2959 03:14:09.399 --> 03:14:11.799 oh, first thing I want to fix is this, or first thing I 2960 03:14:11.879 --> 03:14:16.000 want to build on is this? Was it was reinforcement of like issues that 2961 03:14:16.040 --> 03:14:20.159 we've known and been there, Like, you know, this game is hideously 2962 03:14:20.200 --> 03:14:22.000 complex and there's like so many different actions and a lot of them are context 2963 03:14:22.040 --> 03:14:26.040 sensitive, so lots of players with our old control scheme, we've now addressed 2964 03:14:26.079 --> 03:14:28.959 this we're just like trying to get into the car and ripping the door off 2965 03:14:31.120 --> 03:14:35.520 because that button was overloaded. So just like seeing how commonly that was happening 2966 03:14:35.639 --> 03:14:39.719 was was clarifying in terms of like, Okay, like this this isn't really 2967 03:14:39.760 --> 03:14:41.920 a muscle memory thing. Like you know, we as developers have a pretty 2968 03:14:41.920 --> 03:14:46.120 easy time with it relatively speaking, but this is clearly something that needs to 2969 03:14:46.159 --> 03:14:52.440 be kind of buffed out. And you know, like you're asking about how 2970 03:14:52.479 --> 03:14:54.959 that sort of manifests at the show, A lot of it is is that 2971 03:14:54.040 --> 03:14:58.479 word of mouth stuff. And though we don't want players ripping their doors off 2972 03:14:58.520 --> 03:15:01.600 as they get it the car, like, there's an element to which like 2973 03:15:01.680 --> 03:15:09.959 that is actually helpful in like when you create your own accidents, you're less 2974 03:15:09.040 --> 03:15:15.319 angry about it. It's it's your story, right, you get you get 2975 03:15:15.360 --> 03:15:18.719 to tell it. Yeah, absolutely so, so you know, and with 2976 03:15:18.799 --> 03:15:22.719 our setting as well, it's like this irradiated exclusion zone, so that gives 2977 03:15:22.799 --> 03:15:26.239 us a lot of space to be like that's not a bug, it's own 2978 03:15:26.319 --> 03:15:31.159 stuff. Yeah sure, yeah totally so so then yeah, what what's next 2979 03:15:31.200 --> 03:15:35.959 for you guys when it comes to like figure out what it's there? It's 2980 03:15:35.959 --> 03:15:39.040 ready to Yeah, yeah, we're insert right now. So in the home 2981 03:15:39.079 --> 03:15:43.079 stretch, especially to release safe twenty second Yeah, man, wow right around 2982 03:15:43.120 --> 03:15:46.159 the corner. Yeah, that's exa. I think it feels like there's no 2983 03:15:46.239 --> 03:15:48.840 stage space to put out games anymore where there's gonna a million other ones, 2984 03:15:48.879 --> 03:15:52.200 you guys, Like, so what you got to put a game out at 2985 03:15:52.200 --> 03:15:52.799 a certain time, right, you got to just pick a date and gup 2986 03:15:52.840 --> 03:15:56.159 we are day and date with another pretty high profile like survival crafting game. 2987 03:15:56.239 --> 03:15:58.959 I think some of the forest is up there, like one point on trying 2988 03:15:58.959 --> 03:16:05.520 to the same day one too great, perfect, Yeah, exactly right. 2989 03:16:05.520 --> 03:16:07.319 There's there are going to be more when you just have to do it, 2990 03:16:07.879 --> 03:16:11.600 you know, Like I think to a degree, it's it's a little bit 2991 03:16:11.600 --> 03:16:13.239 of like a rising tide lifts all boats. Like sure each game is offering 2992 03:16:13.280 --> 03:16:18.520 their own thing and and like certainly for us with a Pacific drive, like 2993 03:16:18.159 --> 03:16:24.120 we're offering something pretty unique. There's no one else is an eighties station wagon 2994 03:16:24.200 --> 03:16:28.559 that is your exo suit effectively, uh in terms of like where where the 2995 03:16:28.600 --> 03:16:33.799 survival mechanics sit. So we we feel pretty pretty comfortable with with that aspect 2996 03:16:33.879 --> 03:16:39.319 of like carved out our kind of corner of this survival survival crafting stuff and 2997 03:16:39.799 --> 03:16:43.239 we're excited to get into players' hands. Yeah. Do you guys feel the 2998 03:16:43.280 --> 03:16:48.159 same way with the rts, where like, hey, if two more RTSs 2999 03:16:48.200 --> 03:16:50.920 pop off before we even get ours out, that's actually a good thing in 3000 03:16:50.000 --> 03:16:52.879 some ways. Do you feel that way or not? I think, like 3001 03:16:52.959 --> 03:16:56.440 I said earlier, it's possible to see everybody else's taken, especially with the 3002 03:16:56.520 --> 03:17:00.920 genre, to get excitement back into the space again, and those that have 3003 03:17:01.079 --> 03:17:05.159 maybe or even pro players, So those that there's a general community that he 3004 03:17:05.319 --> 03:17:07.399 used to enjoy those types of games, seeing the fervor coming back is really 3005 03:17:07.440 --> 03:17:11.360 cool, and like I think he's still great. Like Rising Tides, you 3006 03:17:11.399 --> 03:17:13.040 know, like I think if everybody kind of brings their own perspective. But 3007 03:17:13.159 --> 03:17:16.959 yeah, I think we said earlier it's like Rise doesn't live with theft all 3008 03:17:16.959 --> 03:17:18.879 boats. It lifts the boats like right around you. But if you're in 3009 03:17:18.920 --> 03:17:22.159 that same genre that those are the boats right around you. Yeah, totally 3010 03:17:22.559 --> 03:17:26.959 so then so yeah, like if these games are are popping off work, 3011 03:17:26.000 --> 03:17:30.959 they are successful. It do you like, Hey, this is a community 3012 03:17:31.040 --> 03:17:33.559 now and obviously there's a huge arts community already, but it seems like a 3013 03:17:33.639 --> 03:17:37.280 lot of maybe are disenfranchised, where like they're not making games from anymore. 3014 03:17:37.639 --> 03:17:41.280 Uh. While you try to make a game that is appealing to people who 3015 03:17:41.520 --> 03:17:45.399 have been intimidated by artists in the past, how do you make sure it 3016 03:17:45.479 --> 03:17:48.760 still appeals to people like you? Yeah? Yeah, And I think that's 3017 03:17:48.799 --> 03:17:52.000 a great question, and it's what we've been trying to take a stab at 3018 03:17:52.319 --> 03:17:56.000 ourselves for I guess two and a half years now, and I guess before 3019 03:17:56.079 --> 03:17:58.760 I answer that one, Like, one thing that makes me kind of jealous 3020 03:17:58.079 --> 03:18:01.959 where you guys are at is like, man, like I really wanted to 3021 03:18:01.000 --> 03:18:05.639 get that state where we're working together with the community make the game better and 3022 03:18:05.719 --> 03:18:09.360 better, because that's the true test kind of thing. I I watched Lucy 3023 03:18:09.399 --> 03:18:11.079 play when we sat down, and you guys seem like this is awesome, 3024 03:18:11.120 --> 03:18:13.920 Like people here playing the game, you can tell it's like a good moment 3025 03:18:15.040 --> 03:18:16.200 for the cycle. Yeah. Yeah. But with that said, though, 3026 03:18:16.959 --> 03:18:22.760 going back to I guess your question, for us, it's really about locating 3027 03:18:22.840 --> 03:18:26.040 the core fund of what makes an arts fun kind of thing right and really 3028 03:18:26.159 --> 03:18:31.680 amplifying that and really bringing say, like when you play a game of arts, 3029 03:18:31.959 --> 03:18:35.120 traditional arts game right, I love it. But on the flip side, 3030 03:18:35.159 --> 03:18:39.639 I wonder about something like, but how long does it actually take to 3031 03:18:39.719 --> 03:18:43.319 get to the core fund of this same that I'm playing? Right? How 3032 03:18:43.440 --> 03:18:46.120 much like build up? Is there like maybe five minutes in a game like 3033 03:18:46.239 --> 03:18:50.520 the StarCraft two longer in a game like Agement Empires, et cetera. Right, 3034 03:18:50.079 --> 03:18:54.680 So, but I think this is kind of a true test of like, 3035 03:18:54.639 --> 03:18:58.639 can we get players there much faster, much more frequently game to game 3036 03:19:00.079 --> 03:19:03.840 in right, and focus their attention from game to game on exactly the core 3037 03:19:03.920 --> 03:19:07.159 fund and nothing else. Really, this is kind of a goal that we 3038 03:19:07.239 --> 03:19:09.000 have, right, Right. Is there some concern when you explain that to 3039 03:19:09.399 --> 03:19:13.280 hardcore fans that are we going to lose the depth? Are we going to 3040 03:19:13.360 --> 03:19:18.239 lose the hours and hours I can invest in this? I don't think so, 3041 03:19:18.399 --> 03:19:22.280 because our goal is to maintain all of the fun factors of rts. 3042 03:19:22.600 --> 03:19:28.159 So, for example, right, we have we're working on a game that 3043 03:19:28.920 --> 03:19:33.479 has all the more most important parts of an arts that makes an arts kind 3044 03:19:33.520 --> 03:19:37.479 of like things like economy management, taking this way for this advantage, taking 3045 03:19:37.520 --> 03:19:41.079 that other way for this other advantage, expanding to increase my income rate so 3046 03:19:41.120 --> 03:19:43.639 that I can have a bigger army, or choosing not to do any of 3047 03:19:43.719 --> 03:19:46.639 those things and then choosing to build a big army and then going for an 3048 03:19:46.680 --> 03:19:48.520 attack and make something happen that way, et cetera. Right, So, 3049 03:19:48.719 --> 03:19:54.520 as long as we have I guess arts game, which we do right, 3050 03:19:54.200 --> 03:20:00.520 and there are I guess many examples within our own team of five people, 3051 03:20:00.559 --> 03:20:03.079 so it's a pretty small sample size. It goes back to why I'm so 3052 03:20:03.200 --> 03:20:07.520 jealous that kind of thing, right, But within our team we have quite 3053 03:20:07.559 --> 03:20:13.600 a lot of hardcore RTS players as well as players who've never tried rtsts before 3054 03:20:13.719 --> 03:20:16.399 kind of thing right, And so this is kind of the first I guess 3055 03:20:16.559 --> 03:20:20.719 small scale test, and from that point of view, I feel like like 3056 03:20:20.879 --> 03:20:24.159 I'm a super hardcore artist player kind of thing right, And it satisfies me 3057 03:20:24.399 --> 03:20:28.040 just as well as it satisfies someone like Mason on our team who's never played 3058 03:20:28.120 --> 03:20:31.120 rtsts before joining our team, and then he's like gotten quite good at the 3059 03:20:31.120 --> 03:20:35.079 game even, right, So like the fact that he's gotten good at the 3060 03:20:35.159 --> 03:20:39.760 game shows how much he plays, shows how much he loves and enjoys the 3061 03:20:39.799 --> 03:20:43.959 game. I literally like playing the internal fall asleep thinking about any strategy let 3062 03:20:43.000 --> 03:20:46.680 me put this way into you, the first time you played NBA JAM, 3063 03:20:46.000 --> 03:20:50.000 Yeah, it still felt like basketball as a basketball game, sure, but 3064 03:20:50.079 --> 03:20:54.360 it had all the core fun elements of why you like playing a stimulation basketball 3065 03:20:54.399 --> 03:20:56.799 game or Angel ninety four even from back in the days. So invoking that 3066 03:20:58.000 --> 03:21:01.360 feeling to our audience from an art perspective, yeah, I think this kind 3067 03:21:01.399 --> 03:21:03.680 of our north star. Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. 3068 03:21:05.040 --> 03:21:09.559 Is is there like a key challenge when you when you describe that now 3069 03:21:09.600 --> 03:21:11.280 I want to apply that to RTS. Is there something that's like this is 3070 03:21:11.319 --> 03:21:15.959 a hard hunt to go? It's all hard, Yeah, and that's why 3071 03:21:16.040 --> 03:21:18.559 we've been even though we've been like heads down, like doing nothing else but 3072 03:21:18.760 --> 03:21:22.360 focusing on this, it's still taking us whatever two and a half years plus, 3073 03:21:22.479 --> 03:21:26.440 right, Like we're almost there, I think, to that public testing 3074 03:21:26.479 --> 03:21:28.879 stage, but not quite there yet. So like you can kind of imagine 3075 03:21:28.920 --> 03:21:31.120 how tough that's been. Kind of thing, right, And maybe I guess 3076 03:21:31.280 --> 03:21:33.959 easiest way to say it is something that you mentioned earlier on right, Like 3077 03:21:35.319 --> 03:21:39.120 what we're really trying to do is do something like what Wow did for the 3078 03:21:39.239 --> 03:21:43.319 MMO space, something like Hartstone did for the CCG space. But this game 3079 03:21:43.440 --> 03:21:46.719 is a RTS game that's trying to do that same sort of thing, right, 3080 03:21:46.120 --> 03:21:50.440 Yeah. Do you have people that were making MMOs like EverQuest or Dark 3081 03:21:50.440 --> 03:21:52.120 Age of Camelot and even those. When you think about what Wow did with 3082 03:21:52.120 --> 03:21:54.959 a lot of the game systems, it streamlined a lot of that process so 3083 03:21:56.040 --> 03:21:58.879 that more people could enjoy it. And I think that again, that's kind 3084 03:21:58.879 --> 03:22:03.159 of our north star what we're going to do here. There is a lot 3085 03:22:03.239 --> 03:22:07.319 of people who now who have taken Blizzard and work at that experience and now 3086 03:22:07.520 --> 03:22:09.280 started their own studios. Do you think that's a good thing in the industry, 3087 03:22:09.319 --> 03:22:11.799 that all this talent is now maybe spread out a little bit more and 3088 03:22:11.879 --> 03:22:16.680 trying a bunch of different things on their own. Absolutely. Yeah. I 3089 03:22:16.719 --> 03:22:18.920 think it's the democratization of ideas. Yeah. At this point and with the 3090 03:22:20.120 --> 03:22:22.719 you know, from the publishing point of perspective, I think that there's so 3091 03:22:22.799 --> 03:22:24.479 many more outlets and opportunities for you to be able to get your idea. 3092 03:22:24.559 --> 03:22:28.280 Sure, and I think in twenty twenty three, the amount of ideas that 3093 03:22:28.399 --> 03:22:33.840 kind of resonate within a big company or publisher before can now have an outlet 3094 03:22:33.920 --> 03:22:37.079 for some of those more smaller game ideas, but also medium sized, bigger 3095 03:22:37.120 --> 03:22:41.280 ones that everybody can really participate and resonate with, the with the communities that 3096 03:22:41.319 --> 03:22:43.159 actually gravitate towards those. So yeah, I think it's it's wonderful that all 3097 03:22:43.200 --> 03:22:46.680 those you know, I started my career almost twenty years ago at Blizzard too, 3098 03:22:46.799 --> 03:22:48.639 right, Like we have a lot of reference for everything that comes through. 3099 03:22:48.680 --> 03:22:52.440 But I think there's an opportunity for us to all take that next stage 3100 03:22:52.440 --> 03:22:54.079 of what we want to do in our careers. I mean, maybe this 3101 03:22:54.200 --> 03:22:56.319 is too inside and it's okay you guys want to talk about, but like, 3102 03:22:56.360 --> 03:23:00.680 what's it like like for funding these days? Is it like a little 3103 03:23:00.680 --> 03:23:03.239 bit different this year than last year's or enough money out there to make this 3104 03:23:03.319 --> 03:23:05.879 all makes sense? Ought to be very clear, we're not a indie studio. 3105 03:23:07.200 --> 03:23:09.799 We actually are under the light Speed division of ten Cents, and you 3106 03:23:09.879 --> 03:23:13.319 know they've been one old provided us a lot of resources. Yeah. Yeah, 3107 03:23:13.360 --> 03:23:16.559 maybe only one thing I would add is we're sort of like a startup 3108 03:23:16.639 --> 03:23:20.440 in terms of I guess the freedom that we get in terms of autonomy, 3109 03:23:20.840 --> 03:23:26.079 pushing our dreams, building up like something like a publishing from scratch, Like 3110 03:23:26.200 --> 03:23:28.760 this is quite a startup like Big, right, Right, But we don't 3111 03:23:28.840 --> 03:23:33.879 really have any of the difficulties that a true startup might have in terms of 3112 03:23:33.959 --> 03:23:35.000 my funding. We don't have to worry about any of that, right, 3113 03:23:35.200 --> 03:23:39.159 we're at it big. There's a lot of different developers that are coming from 3114 03:23:39.200 --> 03:23:43.680 a blizzard, from a riot and that are going through those pains. Yeah, 3115 03:23:43.719 --> 03:23:46.639 And I think, and we've talked with many of our peers in industry 3116 03:23:46.639 --> 03:23:48.840 about that, and I think a good team, a good idea, will 3117 03:23:48.920 --> 03:23:52.360 find the funding it makes sense for them to do. So. Yeah, 3118 03:23:52.360 --> 03:23:54.760 And what you described there, that's what I've heard about ten Cent is that 3119 03:23:54.799 --> 03:23:56.959 it's like, yeah, good, they would invest, they'll give you the 3120 03:23:56.959 --> 03:23:58.479 money, but don't let you figure it out on your own. For the 3121 03:23:58.479 --> 03:24:01.200 most part, has that been the experience for us on the game side, 3122 03:24:01.200 --> 03:24:05.920 absolutely, right, Yeah, and that has been I guess there's always prosent 3123 03:24:07.200 --> 03:24:09.879 difficulty, of course, no matter where you're working at, right, But 3124 03:24:09.280 --> 03:24:13.799 I want to say this exact thing is the biggest pro I think by far, 3125 03:24:15.319 --> 03:24:20.440 Andreas. I imagine that when you have to QA a game like case 3126 03:24:20.479 --> 03:24:24.440 of the Golden Idol, Actually I can't imagine what that's even like you set 3127 03:24:24.479 --> 03:24:28.040 yourself a game people playing mostly in their head, So how do you see 3128 03:24:28.079 --> 03:24:33.840 what's happening when they're playing the game and something's not working. Yeah, testing 3129 03:24:33.040 --> 03:24:39.360 it is tough, but firstly, what's really nice? So if me and 3130 03:24:39.440 --> 03:24:43.319 as we create in your scenario, we already know we can't test it because 3131 03:24:43.360 --> 03:24:48.639 we know the answers right, So we are forced to pest, which which 3132 03:24:48.680 --> 03:24:50.799 means we need to plan. Now people who haven't played it, showed them 3133 03:24:52.360 --> 03:24:56.280 and see what happens. I wouldn't say that we had a nice, like 3134 03:24:56.440 --> 03:25:03.760 clear framework how we evaluated the but we did like very classical like the players 3135 03:25:03.920 --> 03:25:07.719 you get the build, you joint, share your screen, you play, 3136 03:25:07.879 --> 03:25:13.879 We invite you to share your emotions, reactions, but mostly we just see 3137 03:25:13.479 --> 03:25:16.239 like what are the actions, what what they are looking at, how they 3138 03:25:16.280 --> 03:25:22.520 are focussing. And most of the time it's I'd say it's intuition, like 3139 03:25:22.879 --> 03:25:26.840 you have ideas of what's the perfect flow, what what what what what? 3140 03:25:28.120 --> 03:25:31.200 What the game should feel nicely, and then you check, oh, this 3141 03:25:31.360 --> 03:25:35.600 was figured out too easy, like that they ignored all this part of the 3142 03:25:35.639 --> 03:25:41.200 game, jump to the solution, and okay, we need to make things 3143 03:25:41.239 --> 03:25:45.360 a bit harder. Or this part like is way too confusing, like they 3144 03:25:45.399 --> 03:25:48.520 are starting invent their own crazy theory. Is this this is not working, 3145 03:25:48.360 --> 03:25:54.680 So we use terms whether we need to simplify or whether we need to obfuscate. 3146 03:25:56.319 --> 03:26:03.079 And secondly, one thing which we were definitely looking at when testing the 3147 03:26:03.159 --> 03:26:09.399 game was ideally the most exciting part is the last tame players figured out like 3148 03:26:11.079 --> 03:26:13.360 one experience where oh, I know, okay, this is the victim, 3149 03:26:13.440 --> 03:26:16.879 this is the killer, and now I'm stuck for one hour figuring out like 3150 03:26:16.959 --> 03:26:22.360 what kind of belt bottle he has hold? The technicality like that that that's 3151 03:26:22.680 --> 03:26:28.399 the bad experience. But the good experience is that at the end you suddenly 3152 03:26:28.520 --> 03:26:33.440 realize and you have this AHA moment which is allowed a hud sound, which 3153 03:26:33.479 --> 03:26:37.760 you actually I actually count a haf on a set of favor moments. And 3154 03:26:37.879 --> 03:26:45.520 the more that they reframed the whole situation, not all of our scenarios, 3155 03:26:45.559 --> 03:26:48.239 not like that. But but that's like the Holy Day, Yeah, that's 3156 03:26:48.280 --> 03:26:50.440 what you're aiming for. But for me, it's like, I mean, 3157 03:26:50.479 --> 03:26:52.120 maybe this is true for all QA and all testing of games, but it's 3158 03:26:52.159 --> 03:26:56.079 like, Okay, that person did that, they experienced it. That person 3159 03:26:56.159 --> 03:26:58.559 could be very different from the next person in the place, and they might 3160 03:26:58.639 --> 03:27:01.280 do have a different experience. And now it's well, who's going to be 3161 03:27:01.399 --> 03:27:03.680 more representative of the average player? Is there such a thing as an average 3162 03:27:03.680 --> 03:27:09.399 player? I mean, I don't know. Yeah, that's a tough question 3163 03:27:09.600 --> 03:27:13.440 because I mean, we have a small in the studio. Game is aniche 3164 03:27:13.559 --> 03:27:18.479 experience, and in the end we didn't use any metrics. We introduced some 3165 03:27:18.760 --> 03:27:22.000 metics gathering, but we didn't look at it. In the end, we 3166 03:27:22.680 --> 03:27:28.959 mostly relied on this over sort of I don't know, intuitive evaluation of If 3167 03:27:30.000 --> 03:27:35.399 we have three playsts which felt oh, this was good, this is what 3168 03:27:35.479 --> 03:27:41.440 we wanted, then we've just moved on. And I think it's fine because 3169 03:27:41.000 --> 03:27:43.520 the game is where they can't cofted, which means that we will be flawed. 3170 03:27:43.559 --> 03:27:46.319 Then maybe it's part of the Sure, Yeah, that makes sense, 3171 03:27:48.319 --> 03:27:50.520 and it makes me think of something else. We'll start with you Lex on 3172 03:27:50.600 --> 03:27:56.719 this. When you are doing your job communicating what's happening with the games to 3173 03:27:56.799 --> 03:28:01.719 the public, how much of the job is taking the sentiment of community back 3174 03:28:01.799 --> 03:28:05.600 to the developers, back to the company and explaining this is what people were 3175 03:28:05.600 --> 03:28:09.280 happy with, this is what they're not what's that like. Yeah, that's 3176 03:28:09.959 --> 03:28:15.399 a large part of the job just in general in public relations. Even when 3177 03:28:15.440 --> 03:28:18.959 I was agency side at the beginning of my career, it was a lot 3178 03:28:20.000 --> 03:28:28.040 of gathering sentiment from press and making sure it was a very objective report so 3179 03:28:28.120 --> 03:28:33.120 that we could pass it back to the client. And it's the same when 3180 03:28:33.159 --> 03:28:41.719 you're in house as well. That everyone wants to know like the collective sentiment 3181 03:28:41.799 --> 03:28:46.840 and thoughts of everybody, So it's good to be able to report that back. 3182 03:28:46.120 --> 03:28:50.239 Yeah, it's I mean, how you suppose that to you guys as 3183 03:28:50.319 --> 03:28:52.840 developers when like you get that data back with the information or are you guys 3184 03:28:52.920 --> 03:28:56.799 keeping track of it? Like this is how people feel about things. It's 3185 03:28:56.959 --> 03:29:00.120 like how much is data matter? How much is that intuition matter? Or 3186 03:29:00.120 --> 03:29:03.200 spaceically when I'm wondering, it's everything is there's insights in general, right, 3187 03:29:03.520 --> 03:29:07.520 whether it's community sentiment, whether it's actual data specific to a court, gameplay 3188 03:29:07.600 --> 03:29:11.280 loop or from a metric of comedy people were reaching. Community I managine as 3189 03:29:11.319 --> 03:29:15.680 a two way street is incredibly important and sightful for everything that we do. 3190 03:29:15.799 --> 03:29:18.959 And also just keep a pulse on whether you have that general good north star 3191 03:29:20.040 --> 03:29:22.479 and direction that you're kind of going, yeah, yeah, I have pretty 3192 03:29:22.479 --> 03:29:26.920 strong thoughts on this one, but maybe an easy way to say it, 3193 03:29:26.200 --> 03:29:31.600 I think, is this right if it's not going to be this extreme, 3194 03:29:31.719 --> 03:29:33.639 right, Sure, in a realistic situation, but if you only had these 3195 03:29:33.879 --> 03:29:37.799 one of these two extreme choices, right, one is the data all looks 3196 03:29:37.879 --> 03:29:43.239 so great and perfect, right, but the player percession is so bad right. 3197 03:29:43.600 --> 03:29:46.079 And on the under extreme end you have data looks pretty horrible, right, 3198 03:29:46.239 --> 03:29:50.520 like like nothing is working well, but the player percession is that this 3199 03:29:50.680 --> 03:29:52.319 is the best game ever, right, Which would you rather choose? Right? 3200 03:29:52.479 --> 03:29:56.799 And this is why I believe, like it's not just about waiting for 3201 03:29:56.040 --> 03:30:01.040 like your peer person, community person, etcetera. Laid back. I honestly 3202 03:30:01.159 --> 03:30:07.959 believe game designers should go out of their way to maybe include the core and 3203 03:30:09.079 --> 03:30:13.520 the most passionate people within the player community. And I guess share the knowledge 3204 03:30:13.600 --> 03:30:18.040 that we have as game developers who have the inside info kind of thing. 3205 03:30:18.120 --> 03:30:20.840 Right. And I'm not just saying this from a theoretical point of view. 3206 03:30:22.040 --> 03:30:24.360 I actually tried it on StarCraft two for a little over three years, right, 3207 03:30:24.639 --> 03:30:28.600 So before we tried it, just to sum it up, the set 3208 03:30:28.719 --> 03:30:33.360 the player sentiment in the community was the most dedicated, most passionate players were 3209 03:30:33.399 --> 03:30:35.520 saying something like st two that it's like a meme you can look it up 3210 03:30:35.559 --> 03:30:39.760 on Google kind of thing, and then they spell it the aed game or 3211 03:30:39.799 --> 03:30:45.280 aem or something like this. Right, So we managed to turn it from 3212 03:30:45.319 --> 03:30:48.600 that to having positive discussions around how to make the game better. And I 3213 03:30:48.680 --> 03:30:54.040 think so I had a theory, which I believe I've proven now, and 3214 03:30:54.159 --> 03:31:00.559 the theory was these guys are the same as are some of our own members 3215 03:31:01.040 --> 03:31:03.399 who have really strong and passionate opinions, but they're just not hers. So 3216 03:31:03.479 --> 03:31:07.239 there's a frame very angry, is why they're saying stuff like this, Right, 3217 03:31:07.360 --> 03:31:09.239 Sure, But if you're just honest, transparent and work with them, 3218 03:31:09.840 --> 03:31:15.360 like as I guess we would with another fellow developer on the team kind of 3219 03:31:15.399 --> 03:31:18.360 thing, Right, if we share all the information, be as transparent as 3220 03:31:18.399 --> 03:31:22.280 possible, have those in depth, I guess, even design core game design 3221 03:31:22.319 --> 03:31:28.399 discussions with the community, then I think a lot of people will act the 3222 03:31:28.520 --> 03:31:33.000 same as whatever that angry developer on your team might act, which is, 3223 03:31:33.280 --> 03:31:35.639 yeah, like the mindset is going to be focused on how what do I 3224 03:31:35.799 --> 03:31:39.239 do? What can I do to make the game better kind of thing, 3225 03:31:39.319 --> 03:31:41.319 right, it's providing context. Right. I think once everybody has context, 3226 03:31:41.639 --> 03:31:45.239 it leads to a transparent discussion, right. And I think when you can 3227 03:31:45.319 --> 03:31:46.440 do that with your community, just as you can with our internal call of 3228 03:31:46.440 --> 03:31:50.840 the team and unction, is there a risk of I'll use Smash Brothers as 3229 03:31:50.840 --> 03:31:56.239 an example instead of I think job is one to overwatch Smash Brothers is there's 3230 03:31:56.280 --> 03:31:58.760 an esports community, there is the more casual community. I think if you 3231 03:32:00.280 --> 03:32:03.639 where the success of Smash Brothers comes from, I think a fighting game fan 3232 03:32:03.680 --> 03:32:05.559 will be like, it's because it's a fighting game, and the party party 3233 03:32:05.559 --> 03:32:09.040 game player person will be like, no, it's a fun party game and 3234 03:32:09.520 --> 03:32:11.840 maybe the never never show up between meat or whatever however you say that, 3235 03:32:11.920 --> 03:32:15.639 But it's like, how do you balance that? How do you balance like 3236 03:32:15.719 --> 03:32:18.639 the hardcore versus someone who is going to spend money or your game but maybe 3237 03:32:18.639 --> 03:32:22.000 not a million hours When you just said it, like if you ask someone 3238 03:32:22.239 --> 03:32:24.159 the true question, the true answer to that question is when you're asking Nintendo 3239 03:32:24.559 --> 03:32:28.280 what matters to them as nor start, where their goals are for the community, 3240 03:32:28.399 --> 03:32:33.440 and how they're satisfying both. Now, some developer, some publishers may 3241 03:32:33.040 --> 03:32:37.600 not always hit that bar all the time, but I think the more that 3242 03:32:37.719 --> 03:32:41.000 you listen, the more that you're taking all of your let's call the listening 3243 03:32:41.079 --> 03:32:43.719 post, whether it be data, whether it be context, whether it be 3244 03:32:43.799 --> 03:32:48.920 that passionate discussion, and taking the totality of that to have a genuine response 3245 03:32:50.079 --> 03:32:54.760 back and focus where it may make the most sense of what needs attention at 3246 03:32:54.760 --> 03:32:58.440 this very moment to find that right balance. And also it does depend on 3247 03:32:58.479 --> 03:33:01.040 your goals, right Sure, some games are really catering towards a specific hardcore 3248 03:33:01.280 --> 03:33:05.440 esports environment, or some maybe catering to it more of a casual environment. 3249 03:33:05.639 --> 03:33:07.879 I used to do, I mean the game is bring up examples. I 3250 03:33:07.040 --> 03:33:11.399 was one of the sports users on Call of Duty, which it was such 3251 03:33:11.440 --> 03:33:13.920 a massive, causual game, but then the esports community for Call of Duty 3252 03:33:13.959 --> 03:33:18.479 had very specific requirements of how they think is the most competitive right of the 3253 03:33:18.520 --> 03:33:20.920 game, but never to the two like you said to me, So finding 3254 03:33:20.959 --> 03:33:26.440 that barometer what could be reaching what was making the games success of a mass 3255 03:33:26.520 --> 03:33:30.639 audience, but also getting towards what makes it competitive for the competitive audience was 3256 03:33:30.840 --> 03:33:33.600 a balance That is very difficult to do, but you try to find the 3257 03:33:33.719 --> 03:33:37.079 you know, the most you can by listening. And maybe the answer is 3258 03:33:37.239 --> 03:33:39.600 you do have to listen to both, like one hundred percent that just both 3259 03:33:39.719 --> 03:33:43.040 every every apure and find the medium. Right, Obviously there's more than two 3260 03:33:43.079 --> 03:33:45.639 we ad it's like that simplification. Yeah, And just to be clear, 3261 03:33:45.719 --> 03:33:52.280 what I'm getting at is whether it's a hardcore esport UH favoring player that you 3262 03:33:52.399 --> 03:33:56.440 have, or whether it's someone who prefers the opposite. I guess what I'm 3263 03:33:56.479 --> 03:33:58.600 getting at is I don't think it matters, right, Like, what matters 3264 03:33:58.719 --> 03:34:05.840 more is kind of getting as many of the really dedicated, passionate players out 3265 03:34:05.920 --> 03:34:11.680 there who are willing to work together with the dev team to make the game 3266 03:34:11.760 --> 03:34:15.399 better. So, like an easy example, is this, right, what 3267 03:34:15.760 --> 03:34:20.520 makes the most successful biggest sport, Like that's what esport focused player would want 3268 03:34:22.000 --> 03:34:24.680 in their favorite game. Kind of thing right, And I don't think that 3269 03:34:24.040 --> 03:34:30.280 is the answer to that question. I don't think that is isolating or alienating 3270 03:34:31.319 --> 03:34:35.879 the masses who love playing your game. Kind of thing right, The bigger 3271 03:34:35.959 --> 03:34:39.559 the game, the bigger the esport, I think is an easy summary. 3272 03:34:39.639 --> 03:34:43.360 We can make kind of thing right. So if we are very honest and 3273 03:34:43.479 --> 03:34:48.159 transparent even with that crowd, the reasons why these other players are important too, 3274 03:34:48.639 --> 03:34:52.520 and then you guys are like everyone's important. And if enough players out 3275 03:34:52.559 --> 03:34:56.200 there can understand like exactly what I guess the high level goals are what we 3276 03:34:56.280 --> 03:35:00.959 are working together is things like this, then I think we can set up 3277 03:35:00.959 --> 03:35:05.079 an environment. And again, like I feel like I've seen this on StarCraft 3278 03:35:05.120 --> 03:35:07.079 too when I any kind of thing, right, so I believe it really 3279 03:35:07.200 --> 03:35:15.719 works. It's just about giving players the respect, the honest, transparency, 3280 03:35:16.200 --> 03:35:20.319 being honest, et cetera right to make this happen. And it's not easy, 3281 03:35:20.559 --> 03:35:24.079 obviously, right, but I do think it's possible to be. And 3282 03:35:24.200 --> 03:35:26.680 this is what I'm getting at when when I say, treat the players who 3283 03:35:26.719 --> 03:35:31.440 are the most dedicated and the most helpful as if they are kind of even 3284 03:35:31.479 --> 03:35:35.120 designers on your own team urping, right, yeah, and moving the ego, 3285 03:35:35.399 --> 03:35:39.479 what also say absolutely and then think what you're describing is like, ideally 3286 03:35:39.559 --> 03:35:43.680 it's like a nesting doll or like a vin diagram that has a lot of 3287 03:35:43.760 --> 03:35:46.239 overlapping, right, And you can there's a small part in there that you're 3288 03:35:46.239 --> 03:35:48.879 communicating, but hopefully that's contained within the bigger one. And they aren't separating, 3289 03:35:48.920 --> 03:35:52.319 And that's probably an art to that as well, bring them along for 3290 03:35:52.399 --> 03:35:54.399 the journey to help those that are yours, dedicated and passionate that may be 3291 03:35:54.600 --> 03:35:58.440 very hardcore, right, that to help understand the perspective of how it helps 3292 03:35:58.600 --> 03:36:01.479 the entire community, right, I mean with StarCraft too, there probably was 3293 03:36:01.559 --> 03:36:05.600 a lot of like mass audiences where it's aspirational will play like the top players, 3294 03:36:05.639 --> 03:36:07.639 and so that would make a lot of sense in there. Look, 3295 03:36:07.680 --> 03:36:11.799 it's very vertical, but I mean we heard Andrea say like, oh, 3296 03:36:11.879 --> 03:36:13.280 yeah, we built data, but we'd even look at it. Is that 3297 03:36:13.399 --> 03:36:20.200 experience familiar to you guys? Yeah, I mean we like have some reporting, 3298 03:36:20.280 --> 03:36:24.440 but it's not not our kind of lead. Sure is it kind of 3299 03:36:24.479 --> 03:36:26.280 good to have to be like yeah, I see that, But this now 3300 03:36:26.360 --> 03:36:30.440 I understand why my gut is right? Is is there something there I personally 3301 03:36:30.479 --> 03:36:33.360 find that much more helpful? Like I mean, obviously the data is helpful, 3302 03:36:33.399 --> 03:36:37.959 like it's it's context and it is information, but like games and play 3303 03:36:39.040 --> 03:36:41.120 are fundamentally like an empathetic thing, like it's it's a human thing, it's 3304 03:36:41.159 --> 03:36:45.000 a social thing, and I think that's that's like a lot of where what 3305 03:36:45.040 --> 03:36:48.000 they're saying like this, this sort of inviting people in and demystifying stuff comes 3306 03:36:48.040 --> 03:36:52.959 from of like hey, like I'm I'm coming at this from as a designer, 3307 03:36:54.200 --> 03:36:56.600 and like here's my kind of human perspective and the experiences I'm trying to 3308 03:36:56.639 --> 03:37:01.000 offer you. And you know, any six whole game like Smash Brothers, 3309 03:37:01.000 --> 03:37:03.120 you're saying, we'll meet you where you are, right, And that is 3310 03:37:03.159 --> 03:37:07.639 why that game like really works at both those levels because it's the NBA gammification 3311 03:37:07.799 --> 03:37:13.520 of and and you know, even even Goldennidel, like you get that that 3312 03:37:13.799 --> 03:37:16.280 like momentum build of like he's heating up, You've got a clue, You've 3313 03:37:16.280 --> 03:37:18.239 got a clue, he's on fire, you got the you got the answer, 3314 03:37:20.600 --> 03:37:24.799 and and just like giving people that that sort of like abstraction of an 3315 03:37:24.840 --> 03:37:31.200 experience. And we do it too with like taking care of a car and 3316 03:37:31.520 --> 03:37:35.680 being a car mechanic, and like we we kind of atomize some of those 3317 03:37:35.680 --> 03:37:37.799 interactions of like taking out a door is just a button press. It's not 3318 03:37:37.879 --> 03:37:43.440 we're not my summer car. We're not turning individual screws. But it gets 3319 03:37:43.479 --> 03:37:46.600 you into that fantasy and it like invites you in and meets you where you 3320 03:37:46.680 --> 03:37:50.639 are, and uh, you know, our game has a lot going on, 3321 03:37:50.719 --> 03:37:52.280 but you can turn off whatever aspects you want if you just want to 3322 03:37:52.280 --> 03:37:56.440 have a Sunday Drive kind of experience. I think I think so much of 3323 03:37:56.840 --> 03:38:01.600 it is sort of a a and observational in that way, at least for 3324 03:38:01.920 --> 03:38:07.120 how I approach it, because you can have all the data in the world, 3325 03:38:07.959 --> 03:38:11.440 but you can't measure that like flow state that right, that like sort 3326 03:38:11.479 --> 03:38:16.239 of abstraction of an experience of like feeling like an NBA player or feeling like 3327 03:38:16.280 --> 03:38:20.719 a car mechanic, or feeling like an awesome StarCraft player. Even if you're 3328 03:38:20.799 --> 03:38:24.600 like, you know, just just like stomp, come stopping and like not 3329 03:38:24.719 --> 03:38:28.239 actually doing all that well, like you can still have have that experience and 3330 03:38:28.680 --> 03:38:31.520 sort of enjoyment. And I think we're like, we're all kind of saying 3331 03:38:31.520 --> 03:38:33.280 the same thing. A lot of the game is in people's heads, and 3332 03:38:33.360 --> 03:38:35.479 it's like that you can't measure. Yeah, you can't measure that part of 3333 03:38:35.520 --> 03:38:39.680 it. So I am panel excellent, one of the best catches of the 3334 03:38:39.760 --> 03:38:41.559 night, my favorite so far. Thank you everybody for watching. We're gonna 3335 03:38:41.600 --> 03:38:45.079 have a couple more. Stick with us. We'll be right back after this 3336 03:38:56.360 --> 03:38:58.200 boom. We're back already, and I got a bunch of strangers with me. 3337 03:38:58.239 --> 03:39:01.639 I'm gonna find out names right now. I'm excited. I hope you 3338 03:39:01.719 --> 03:39:05.040 are too. Thanks to like a dragon if it. Well for supporting us 3339 03:39:05.079 --> 03:39:07.879 tonight. Thank you for watching. It's been a lot of fun. Let's 3340 03:39:07.959 --> 03:39:11.280 keep it going. My friend and yours. Jeff Becklar, How are you, 3341 03:39:11.360 --> 03:39:13.840 Jeff? I'm pretty good? Jeff? Okay, great? Moving on, 3342 03:39:16.479 --> 03:39:18.479 like, what are you doing here? Which funny is the evil double? 3343 03:39:18.879 --> 03:39:24.600 Oh? So many crimes he's got like he's trying to look evil, 3344 03:39:24.680 --> 03:39:26.920 but it's me all the way for sure. Yeah, it's a bait and 3345 03:39:26.959 --> 03:39:31.520 switch. Yeah, everyone thinks it's him. By actually him makes a lot 3346 03:39:31.520 --> 03:39:33.479 of sense. Sam Lake, I'm glad you're here. How you doing. 3347 03:39:33.239 --> 03:39:37.159 I'm doing good? Thank you? Absolutely fun to be here. Yeah, 3348 03:39:37.239 --> 03:39:39.200 well it's gonna be a good time. Kyle Rowley, how are you doing. 3349 03:39:39.319 --> 03:39:45.639 I'm good. That's good. Spots are at the door. You're not 3350 03:39:45.680 --> 03:39:48.959 allowed in unless you're How did you get behind and ask me any questions if 3351 03:39:50.000 --> 03:39:54.879 you're not so well? Now you're tempting me. Okay, how you doing 3352 03:39:54.239 --> 03:40:00.200 good? Thank you? I don't know how I ended up here. I 3353 03:40:00.239 --> 03:40:03.319 don't know how I got here. So that's the giant bomb experience. Yeah, 3354 03:40:03.959 --> 03:40:07.520 the reaction that we have when we cut to you in live action when 3355 03:40:07.559 --> 03:40:18.200 you're like Tans and Lucier here as well, there's that facial expression now count 3356 03:40:18.280 --> 03:40:20.479 as the second iconic remedy. Facial expression. Yeah. I feel like that 3357 03:40:20.600 --> 03:40:26.440 one goes in the like annals of history. Yeah, yeah, congrats team 3358 03:40:26.440 --> 03:40:31.719 both the camera which one the middle one? I guess? Yeah? There 3359 03:40:31.760 --> 03:40:35.520 you go, There you go, Sam, when you're giving them direction on 3360 03:40:35.639 --> 03:40:37.600 like making that face, what do you say to him? Or you just 3361 03:40:37.680 --> 03:40:43.719 make a face at him? Scared but cool, that's what it used to 3362 03:40:43.799 --> 03:40:50.159 be. No, it's just scared. It's scared. Yeah, you guys 3363 03:40:50.280 --> 03:40:52.399 must be feeling pretty good. Right, it's like releasing the game, getting 3364 03:40:52.440 --> 03:40:56.239 out behind you and now that means a little bit of a victory lap, 3365 03:40:56.360 --> 03:41:01.120 right. Yeah. Yeah it feels good. Right, I think it feels 3366 03:41:03.040 --> 03:41:05.479 good. But I feel like it's been how many of years? Thirteen years 3367 03:41:05.559 --> 03:41:09.600 view stuffing like that. He's been on it. For me, it's five. 3368 03:41:09.920 --> 03:41:11.760 It's like, okay, we've done it, and I'm like, oh 3369 03:41:11.319 --> 03:41:15.159 my life is empty and I don't know what I'm doing with my life anymore? 3370 03:41:15.479 --> 03:41:18.879 What's what's what's the person life empty nest syndrome? Like the kid is 3371 03:41:20.120 --> 03:41:22.920 I fluttered out of the nets and all that like that? Yeah? Yeah, 3372 03:41:22.879 --> 03:41:26.760 how is it from like an actress point of view? Because like when 3373 03:41:26.799 --> 03:41:30.280 you complete project as becaus this, you have that same kind of emptiness. 3374 03:41:30.280 --> 03:41:33.120 So I did, but I had it before already, all right, yeah, 3375 03:41:33.959 --> 03:41:37.760 oh yeah months ago. So yeah, but I feel the final shot 3376 03:41:39.760 --> 03:41:43.799 it's been after you that's gonna happen. Yeah, yeah, that's still there's 3377 03:41:43.799 --> 03:41:48.719 still stuffy exciting. Yeah yeah, but after that, I means that something 3378 03:41:48.799 --> 03:41:50.280 like if I were you, I would not be able to help it. 3379 03:41:50.440 --> 03:41:52.879 Think about that and get excited. Is it something you think about a lot, 3380 03:41:52.959 --> 03:41:56.920 like, oh, award show, that's pretty cool, It's very cool. 3381 03:41:56.000 --> 03:42:00.440 Yeah, yeah, it's very cool. We've got some cool stuff going 3382 03:42:00.479 --> 03:42:03.239 on there. Yeah, it's gonna be nice. Yeah, absolutely, Sam, 3383 03:42:03.319 --> 03:42:05.760 you guys got a lot of games still happening. But is it like 3384 03:42:05.920 --> 03:42:09.760 do you get a chance to take a break after a game releases or is 3385 03:42:09.760 --> 03:42:11.520 it just like lots of phone calls back like hey, how are things at 3386 03:42:11.520 --> 03:42:15.719 the office or what? Yeah, I tried to take two weeks off, 3387 03:42:15.840 --> 03:42:20.760 but I was working every day. Yeah, man, really just a bit. 3388 03:42:20.040 --> 03:42:28.600 Yeah yeah, something related to work every day. Yeah yeah. Still 3389 03:42:28.120 --> 03:42:33.280 there will be more time off next year. Yeah, yeah for sure. 3390 03:42:33.559 --> 03:42:39.879 Yeah, we're still working on post content. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 3391 03:42:39.040 --> 03:42:43.040 so we're working on that at the moment. So what I want to 3392 03:42:43.079 --> 03:42:46.200 know is, like I was talking to Simonis Amount and Kyle, you both 3393 03:42:46.280 --> 03:42:50.040 say everyone says it, but like when you're making a game, you stop 3394 03:42:50.120 --> 03:42:52.760 consuming and enjoying things a lot of the time. It's not playing games. 3395 03:42:54.239 --> 03:42:56.920 What is at the top of your list or lists to now experience Now that 3396 03:42:58.040 --> 03:43:00.959 you're you have a little more time. Same for you. I'm sure you're 3397 03:43:01.000 --> 03:43:05.399 in a similar situation games, games, or movies. What is like the 3398 03:43:05.440 --> 03:43:07.639 thing that you're like, Oh, I want to finally sit down and do 3399 03:43:07.760 --> 03:43:09.559 this thing. I know you read a lot, so it sounds like it 3400 03:43:09.600 --> 03:43:11.040 sounds really generic, but I really need to play Bob this game thing. 3401 03:43:13.159 --> 03:43:24.920 Yeah, especially after that. Yeah, I'm thinking, Wow, for sure, 3402 03:43:24.440 --> 03:43:31.719 I'll be thinking hard creating a character playing it over holidays. Yes, 3403 03:43:33.399 --> 03:43:37.959 it's yeah, I mean I haven't I haven't played any games in a year 3404 03:43:37.079 --> 03:43:41.600 or something. Then, yeah, I have not been able to read read 3405 03:43:41.719 --> 03:43:48.600 books for a while. It just has felt impossible. Yeah, and I'm 3406 03:43:48.719 --> 03:43:54.520 really really looking forward to finding it again and being able to focus what happens 3407 03:43:54.559 --> 03:43:56.719 there when, because for me, it's like that I always use the stove 3408 03:43:56.799 --> 03:43:58.559 metaphor of like I have four burners on the stove, and I have worked 3409 03:43:58.559 --> 03:44:01.639 here in family here, and then like one or two hobbies on the back 3410 03:44:01.680 --> 03:44:05.799 burner. But probably not like when books get pushed off, do you get 3411 03:44:05.879 --> 03:44:07.000 have to like kind of nudge something else out of the way to make time 3412 03:44:07.079 --> 03:44:11.079 for something like that again, something you like a lot, or just sleep 3413 03:44:11.239 --> 03:44:13.200 enough not to fall of sleep. Yeah, right, sleeping is actually the 3414 03:44:13.200 --> 03:44:18.959 biggest burner. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Yeah. So I mean when 3415 03:44:18.000 --> 03:44:20.440 you guys travel out to La, you guys are out here for summer. 3416 03:44:20.440 --> 03:44:24.040 Came fist showing off the game? Now, does this feel like an end 3417 03:44:24.120 --> 03:44:26.280 cap of like, hey, we're here, We're gonna be at the Game 3418 03:44:26.319 --> 03:44:28.559 Awards tomorrow, hopefully the fun things happen there. Is it like I feel 3419 03:44:28.559 --> 03:44:33.239 like a journey accumminating in some way? Yeah, I mean we announced the 3420 03:44:33.319 --> 03:44:35.959 game at the Game of Oh yeah, yeah, so it does feel like 3421 03:44:37.200 --> 03:44:41.399 right, book, Yeah, hopefully not stuck in a little. It's not 3422 03:44:41.479 --> 03:44:56.280 litis spoiled. That's why give them a handshack. What's the worst scheduling for 3423 03:44:56.319 --> 03:44:58.840 you? Like, because I imagine like you're you're an actor, you show 3424 03:44:58.879 --> 03:45:03.079 up on set, are you on call? Hey we need more from you? 3425 03:45:03.399 --> 03:45:07.600 Yeah? I went way Yeah unfortunately, Yeah, ashamed of that. 3426 03:45:07.360 --> 03:45:11.200 Yeah. Yeah, place like during three years for me for an wig two 3427 03:45:11.399 --> 03:45:15.399 right, So I would do projects in between, and you know, have 3428 03:45:15.600 --> 03:45:22.399 problems. Yeah, the hair is a problem because yeahs now does that? 3429 03:45:22.600 --> 03:45:24.559 Does that bother you a lot? Like I wish the hair was right? 3430 03:45:24.719 --> 03:45:26.639 Is that something you're thinking about a lot when you're doing a role. It's 3431 03:45:26.680 --> 03:45:31.159 tricky because I would do projects at the same time, so it would be 3432 03:45:31.440 --> 03:45:35.200 like I had a mustache in one one role and then I couldn't have any 3433 03:45:35.239 --> 03:45:39.079 facial hair and for the performance capture and we would have to look at the 3434 03:45:39.159 --> 03:45:41.159 calendars and like find a date. Yeah, like I need three weeks to 3435 03:45:41.200 --> 03:45:48.920 grow the beard back or three weeks. Good, squeeze it out, squeeze 3436 03:45:48.920 --> 03:45:54.079 it out. Everybody's good at something. I mean down, get the beard 3437 03:45:54.159 --> 03:45:58.520 down. Even three months to get something like this an impossible schedule for that, 3438 03:45:58.760 --> 03:46:05.719 I'm Pakistani, give me that. Yeah, and shooting like shooting too 3439 03:46:05.760 --> 03:46:11.920 much, say in otel room scenes, which is all Yoka doing wrong with 3440 03:46:13.079 --> 03:46:18.799 the standing on the other side. First we had to do Alan Wake simply 3441 03:46:18.879 --> 03:46:26.239 because of the beer, right, and and once that was done on lunch 3442 03:46:26.319 --> 03:46:33.719 break shaved it all. That must be the most delicate shave you could possibly 3443 03:46:33.799 --> 03:46:35.879 do. I mean, you don't want to cut yourself. Something's going to 3444 03:46:35.920 --> 03:46:41.040 happen every game we had a professional Yeah, everything is delicate. With Thomas 3445 03:46:41.120 --> 03:46:45.600 saying is that is that something about it? You if the hair's not right 3446 03:46:45.719 --> 03:46:48.159 or something like that, You're like, we got to make it work. 3447 03:46:48.600 --> 03:46:52.799 There are excellent professional people looking after it. It is. It is contle 3448 03:46:54.280 --> 03:46:58.959 from live action to pas cinematics and where the character is in the progression for 3449 03:46:58.040 --> 03:47:03.920 the game, right, because as we change Wake's appearance as you're progressing through, 3450 03:47:03.000 --> 03:47:05.440 So like me, we're like, wait, what part what's wait mean 3451 03:47:05.479 --> 03:47:07.680 to look like? When's shooting this live action stuff and then trying to match 3452 03:47:07.760 --> 03:47:11.319 it from the game, right, But I mean that that comes with using 3453 03:47:11.399 --> 03:47:13.239 live action, right. At a certain point, you have to just accept 3454 03:47:13.360 --> 03:47:18.000 things aren't going to be perfect. It's going to be good enough. Well, 3455 03:47:18.000 --> 03:47:18.959 that's what I'm asking to say. It could be perfect. Like when 3456 03:47:20.040 --> 03:47:22.639 you are watching like the dailies. I don't know if you call them dailies 3457 03:47:22.680 --> 03:47:24.600 and game development, but if you're watching the dealers where you're like, I'm 3458 03:47:24.680 --> 03:47:28.479 noticing this and it's going to bother me, even though most people probably won't 3459 03:47:28.520 --> 03:47:31.520 notice. So does it get to you? I mean, it's it's it's 3460 03:47:31.639 --> 03:47:39.879 not just that, it's you know, us looking at the game. Yeah, 3461 03:47:39.760 --> 03:47:43.000 perfectionism, Yeah, yeah, I mean I also like live action is 3462 03:47:43.079 --> 03:47:46.159 very interesting because we obviously done live action before in Quantum Break, of course, 3463 03:47:46.280 --> 03:47:50.319 and actually even in previous anaweight games. But when we were doing Quantum 3464 03:47:50.360 --> 03:47:52.639 Break, you know, for Ana Weight two, you know, there was 3465 03:47:52.680 --> 03:47:56.399 a nice balance between like trying to build the sets in the game and then 3466 03:47:56.399 --> 03:48:00.559 trying to match them in the live action, and we did a lot of 3467 03:48:00.559 --> 03:48:03.680 that for Quantum Break. For Anima too, we built those All that stuff 3468 03:48:03.760 --> 03:48:05.760 was kind of done in Finland, so we had our own production house. 3469 03:48:05.840 --> 03:48:07.600 It was kind of more integrated with Quantent Break was slightly more separate. I 3470 03:48:07.639 --> 03:48:11.280 remember there was a time in Quantum Break where we had to kind of like 3471 03:48:11.319 --> 03:48:15.600 they were trying to match our sets from the game to the live action, 3472 03:48:16.360 --> 03:48:20.120 and we accidentally left a prop in the game which was white box, which 3473 03:48:20.159 --> 03:48:22.920 means it was just a white, white asset with no textures on it. 3474 03:48:24.559 --> 03:48:26.879 And we send them the reference and then we came they came back with the 3475 03:48:26.920 --> 03:48:31.559 shot and there was a white there was a white lamp. Actually, actually 3476 03:48:31.920 --> 03:48:37.280 they thought that it's some sort of like design right, something to finish we 3477 03:48:37.319 --> 03:48:43.000 don't know, like here or whatever, but they actually kind of like and 3478 03:48:43.079 --> 03:48:46.280 then they just built a white asset because we forgot to texture it in the 3479 03:48:46.360 --> 03:48:50.319 game. So like you know, those kind of like making sure the sets 3480 03:48:50.399 --> 03:48:52.520 match between the live action and the game is difficult, but there's a lot 3481 03:48:52.600 --> 03:48:54.639 it was. I think it went pretty well for actually for way too. 3482 03:48:54.840 --> 03:49:01.360 Yeah, for sure. But these guys being perfectionists anyway, they're like very 3483 03:49:01.920 --> 03:49:03.520 they know what they're looking for, and they didn't know what they want. 3484 03:49:03.719 --> 03:49:07.280 But still, you guys are able to sort of keep an open mind and 3485 03:49:07.520 --> 03:49:13.840 take things from like from an actress for example. It's been great because you 3486 03:49:13.959 --> 03:49:16.479 can come up right with ideas and it's a lot of idea, but there 3487 03:49:16.520 --> 03:49:20.120 are always a lot of two new ideas and you can try out things, 3488 03:49:20.159 --> 03:49:24.879 and so it's a it's a great sort of a working atmosphere in that sense 3489 03:49:24.879 --> 03:49:26.399 as well. So something I always wonder about game development, like playing games 3490 03:49:26.479 --> 03:49:30.559 is obviously about play and having the chance to express yourself as a player. 3491 03:49:30.680 --> 03:49:33.959 I can imagine making games, there's something like you want to maintain some of 3492 03:49:33.040 --> 03:49:37.079 that play in the creation process, right, And that's as an actor, 3493 03:49:37.159 --> 03:49:39.520 that's what you're literally doing. You are playing, absolutely yeah, and you 3494 03:49:41.399 --> 03:49:43.280 reflect that is that does that come into your work when you're building the whole 3495 03:49:43.319 --> 03:49:50.079 idea in the first place, Well, like it's always it's it's a tone 3496 03:49:50.120 --> 03:49:58.879 of iteration, it's it. And there can be so many reasons why an 3497 03:49:58.079 --> 03:50:05.360 idea we trying to put in doesn't end up working or ends up being autoscope 3498 03:50:05.600 --> 03:50:11.399 or impossible to do. So constantly you need to keep an open mind and 3499 03:50:11.440 --> 03:50:18.559 and like what I've found is the best attitude is Okay, we wanted to 3500 03:50:18.639 --> 03:50:24.159 do this, we can't do this. We need to figure something out. 3501 03:50:24.239 --> 03:50:28.319 This is an opportunity to make it better. It's an opportunity to make it 3502 03:50:28.440 --> 03:50:35.520 better. Like when when when suddenly you can't treat something, it can lead 3503 03:50:35.600 --> 03:50:39.600 into something better. And that you wouldn't have thought of I'm not even sure 3504 03:50:39.639 --> 03:50:41.239 like if we should say this, but like, actually a lot of the 3505 03:50:41.319 --> 03:50:46.200 live action stuff in Anime two came because I was just saying it yesterday. 3506 03:50:46.360 --> 03:50:50.680 Yeah okay. We were like, we were like, oh, we can't 3507 03:50:50.760 --> 03:50:54.639 do this many cinematics in this game. And we were like, okay, 3508 03:50:54.760 --> 03:50:58.559 well, actually Sam was like, okay, we'll figure out way to make 3509 03:50:58.760 --> 03:51:01.120 because we said that we had a story one as to tell and we knew 3510 03:51:01.120 --> 03:51:03.680 we needed excem minutes to kind of tell it, but we couldn't do it 3511 03:51:03.719 --> 03:51:05.799 all in gameplay, so we kind of started utilizing things about your live action. 3512 03:51:07.719 --> 03:51:09.760 And that's kind of how that stuff all came about, really from from 3513 03:51:09.799 --> 03:51:16.959 constraints on production. We were all already doing live action, but like an 3514 03:51:16.040 --> 03:51:24.360 idea on like okay, let's let's do clearly more and and and find find 3515 03:51:24.479 --> 03:51:33.319 even better ways of integrating it. And and that's a great example of when 3516 03:51:33.399 --> 03:51:41.159 you run into an obstacle, it can lead into ideas that you might I 3517 03:51:41.280 --> 03:51:48.639 mean, the worst situation, as contradictory as it sounds, is you have 3518 03:51:48.760 --> 03:51:54.319 no limitations, right because when you are forced to work in a in an 3519 03:51:54.719 --> 03:52:01.159 environment, when when where there are then you need could be created, and 3520 03:52:01.559 --> 03:52:05.840 that's where often the best ideas come from you. I mean, I mean 3521 03:52:05.879 --> 03:52:11.079 there's a double edged thing where it's software and in art. What you guys 3522 03:52:11.120 --> 03:52:13.280 are making this it is a piece of software and it's art, and it 3523 03:52:13.600 --> 03:52:16.120 seems like it creates so many more opportunities because how do you solve any problem 3524 03:52:16.159 --> 03:52:20.319 that comes up? You can do it through film naking, include, do 3525 03:52:20.440 --> 03:52:24.120 it through game design, do it through some technical trip. It's how do 3526 03:52:24.200 --> 03:52:26.239 you decide what's the best I mean it was it was. It was the 3527 03:52:26.280 --> 03:52:30.639 same for even the like the sequence to musical sequence we have in the game. 3528 03:52:30.959 --> 03:52:33.239 Originally we wanted to do that. What the idea was there would actually 3529 03:52:33.280 --> 03:52:37.680 be all like in the game and it was like more like a theater with 3530 03:52:37.799 --> 03:52:39.479 like physical assets in the game moving around. And then we were like, 3531 03:52:39.520 --> 03:52:43.440 oh that's not possible, So like we're like, okay, how can we 3532 03:52:43.840 --> 03:52:46.120 We still want to do it, but we need to figure out way to 3533 03:52:46.159 --> 03:52:48.000 do it. And that's kind of where we started. Live action. Like 3534 03:52:48.079 --> 03:52:56.319 action became exactly so like and then that any any problem by like action, 3535 03:52:56.959 --> 03:53:03.559 which said I was on a toilet paper, but like and again it came 3536 03:53:03.639 --> 03:53:05.200 about from the same thing of constraints on the production side. If we're not 3537 03:53:05.399 --> 03:53:09.159 being able to do what wesially what we're going to do, and I feel 3538 03:53:09.200 --> 03:53:11.399 like it actually ends up it ended up better this way than had we tried 3539 03:53:11.399 --> 03:53:15.079 to do it the other way again, So you know, I think that, 3540 03:53:15.239 --> 03:53:16.799 you know, I think that's why it's important to have that push pull 3541 03:53:16.959 --> 03:53:24.159 from creative and production and schedule and budget kind of like all working together versus 3542 03:53:24.280 --> 03:53:26.879 like just credit do whatever you want wherever an exem my budget. We those 3543 03:53:26.920 --> 03:53:31.239 constraints help us a way to come up interesting and innative innotive ways to solve 3544 03:53:31.319 --> 03:53:37.200 problems. But it's just a theory because we are never in the situation where 3545 03:53:37.239 --> 03:53:39.159 I the budget. Yeah, yeah, that'd be great. Really really, 3546 03:53:39.200 --> 03:53:48.600 I don't know, ye ignore everything that we said limited budget, that unlimited 3547 03:53:48.639 --> 03:53:56.760 budget I'm interested in. Like obviously this has been it feels like the culmination 3548 03:53:56.079 --> 03:54:01.479 of kind of remedies idea is for a long time. You know, you've 3549 03:54:01.520 --> 03:54:05.200 got there's almost like a lineage to the ideas that has here an execution. 3550 03:54:05.360 --> 03:54:09.280 It feels like a really impressive expression of what you guys have always tried to 3551 03:54:09.360 --> 03:54:13.520 do at this stage, do you lean harder into that or are you now 3552 03:54:13.719 --> 03:54:16.920 like we did the thing that we've been building up to for a really long 3553 03:54:16.959 --> 03:54:22.280 time. Let's try and establish a brand new identity or figure out ways of 3554 03:54:22.360 --> 03:54:24.799 making games that doesn't lean upon the things that we have done up until this 3555 03:54:24.920 --> 03:54:31.440 point. I think that we are only getting started. Nice. I don't 3556 03:54:31.479 --> 03:54:46.000 know what that means. It was like all the people that guess be likes 3557 03:54:46.040 --> 03:54:50.680 going like what what? Actually didn't say that. I do get it though, 3558 03:54:50.719 --> 03:54:54.600 when you say like you got you got something right, You've got something 3559 03:54:54.639 --> 03:54:56.360 and it's working in obviously you've had it for a long time, but it 3560 03:54:56.399 --> 03:55:01.760 does. It just keeps getting better. So why not? Yeah? Do 3561 03:55:01.840 --> 03:55:03.959 you do you have the itch to stay in like an almost acting role? 3562 03:55:05.000 --> 03:55:07.760 Now? Have you been bitten by that? Yeah? Yeah, that's the 3563 03:55:07.840 --> 03:55:15.000 thing. Like as a creator gave me wonderful, wonderful advice along the way, 3564 03:55:15.520 --> 03:55:22.000 Like I I was really struggling early on on and and and he gave 3565 03:55:22.120 --> 03:55:26.040 me. Really we had a long chat. I went to him like damn, 3566 03:55:26.120 --> 03:55:33.840 this is hard, and yeah it was great. Was just here's a 3567 03:55:33.840 --> 03:55:41.079 shot of whiskey. There you go. Yeah, but you did such a 3568 03:55:41.159 --> 03:55:43.319 great job. Yeah, I was gonna say, like, yeah, it's 3569 03:55:43.319 --> 03:55:46.799 a little depressing. It sounds like you could do it all. Sam. 3570 03:55:46.920 --> 03:55:50.440 Was there a moment where it clicked, like what was the turning point for 3571 03:55:50.520 --> 03:55:58.079 you? Uh, remember to breathe. Honest, that's a good shot, 3572 03:55:58.159 --> 03:56:03.399 the kind of like the kind of short film last right. I think that 3573 03:56:03.479 --> 03:56:05.959 that helped in the sense of like, you've done all of the stuff before 3574 03:56:05.079 --> 03:56:09.319 that, before we did that that shoot, so yeah, it's you. 3575 03:56:09.399 --> 03:56:13.559 Kind of like his acting skill kind of increased as we were going through the 3576 03:56:13.559 --> 03:56:16.239 production. By time we got for that bit, he was like, really 3577 03:56:16.280 --> 03:56:18.760 good. I think that actually most people are like, oh shit, some 3578 03:56:18.840 --> 03:56:22.760 can had and we see it on the screen too. I I am getting 3579 03:56:22.799 --> 03:56:24.239 the wrap up sign though, So I'm sorry that we have to cut this 3580 03:56:24.360 --> 03:56:26.559 so short. Exactly. They're going to beat me up here if I don't 3581 03:56:26.559 --> 03:56:28.600 get you guys out of here. Thank you guys so much. This was 3582 03:56:28.639 --> 03:56:31.239 excellent. We can make this happening. It was a last minute thing. 3583 03:56:31.520 --> 03:56:35.799 We're lucky to have this time with you. Thank you so much. Absolutely, 3584 03:56:35.319 --> 03:56:37.559 we'll be right back with the last segment. Everybody, thanks for watching 3585 03:56:37.600 --> 03:56:39.959 so far. Stick with us a little bit longer. It's gonna be great. 3586 03:56:41.799 --> 03:56:54.879 Thank you, thank you, Beckar. What have we done speaking to 3587 03:56:54.920 --> 03:56:58.959 my nipples? My nipples are miked up and that's how you talk to me 3588 03:56:58.040 --> 03:57:01.600 now, Yeah, it is. I like seeing this part of you. 3589 03:57:01.879 --> 03:57:07.040 Yeah, this is to be honest. Hello, I'm gonna just say hi 3590 03:57:07.120 --> 03:57:11.600 to HR when they watched this later, Hey, this is our last segment 3591 03:57:11.760 --> 03:57:18.559 and I got the chuckle fox meet the buckos yeah or Mary kish belly my 3592 03:57:20.479 --> 03:57:26.680 niked Jan got wow like I started doing the one hand trying to because you 3593 03:57:26.719 --> 03:57:33.120 mentioned that it's get on your finger gets used to anything. I could do 3594 03:57:33.200 --> 03:57:35.319 it. It's hard for me. I don't want to be like, oh 3595 03:57:35.319 --> 03:57:37.159 I'm a man, I can do it, no problem. I struggle a 3596 03:57:37.159 --> 03:57:39.639 little bit. Dan records here as well. Hello, Hello, yeah, 3597 03:57:39.040 --> 03:57:41.680 yes, uh we got Dan for this. We got Daan for this. 3598 03:57:43.200 --> 03:57:50.600 He's usually so yeah hard. I looked him up with the Boom books. 3599 03:57:50.600 --> 03:57:54.239 That's parts unknown. I don't know what that means. Pish, How you 3600 03:57:54.280 --> 03:57:58.479 doing, I'm doing great, Thanks for having absolutely Thanks for coming back. 3601 03:57:58.319 --> 03:58:15.559 Boy, We're not even doing that before. Okay all the shows have been 3602 03:58:15.680 --> 03:58:20.399 canceled. Welcome Becklar. You you didn't get this experience summer game. First, 3603 03:58:20.399 --> 03:58:22.760 how do you feel about what we've done here today? I think it's 3604 03:58:22.799 --> 03:58:26.239 amazing. I think I speak to his chest. I think it's amazing. 3605 03:58:26.520 --> 03:58:33.159 I think bang, I am actually gonna talk about this in my end. 3606 03:58:33.719 --> 03:58:39.079 It's part of the team and we're going watch. Oh no, god, 3607 03:58:41.120 --> 03:58:48.120 he's not. He's not. Even Mike Ever told him we don't have for 3608 03:58:48.200 --> 03:58:50.319 you, and he was like, I'm gonna sit on the arm chair. 3609 03:58:50.239 --> 03:58:54.840 This is beautiful. I wouldn't have it any other way. Yeah, I 3610 03:58:54.959 --> 03:58:56.239 haven't been out there. There were a lot of people out there. Yeah, 3611 03:58:56.559 --> 03:59:03.000 yeah, cocky what I mean in this weather it's hard to get people 3612 03:59:03.000 --> 03:59:09.200 off seventy degrees? What? Wait? A shot a shoot about the weather 3613 03:59:09.479 --> 03:59:13.920 said, okay, okay, you're working, it's working, all right. 3614 03:59:15.719 --> 03:59:18.239 Is this inclement? No? This is it's actually it's well, it's inclement 3615 03:59:18.319 --> 03:59:20.879 in so far as that it's fucked up. It shouldn't be this. Wait 3616 03:59:22.360 --> 03:59:26.959 wait, that is that how you pronounce that word? Dam? I've been 3617 03:59:26.000 --> 03:59:31.600 saying in climate, I mean the logic, because climate, if you're talking 3618 03:59:31.600 --> 03:59:37.840 about whether there's this is not as bad as Clippard. I'll say that Harry 3619 03:59:37.920 --> 03:59:43.200 wrote a clipboard all night, so we should know. There is a photo 3620 03:59:43.280 --> 03:59:50.280 that Jeff back is intentional. There's there's a there's a photo that Jeff Beckler 3621 03:59:50.360 --> 03:59:54.239 has on his phone of me explaining the logic tom A Fife and Emma Fife's 3622 03:59:54.280 --> 03:59:56.959 face is like, you're you are so right, jam you can let him 3623 03:59:56.959 --> 04:00:01.079 cook, Yes, let him she let me cook. Has a gift for 3624 04:00:01.399 --> 04:00:05.159 making the person they're talking to you feel like they're so right. And I 3625 04:00:05.239 --> 04:00:07.719 think that that's really that is one of the one of the main superpowers. 3626 04:00:09.280 --> 04:00:11.719 Mike Armand just said that you could tell me to stop jerking off, cure 3627 04:00:11.799 --> 04:00:15.680 you. So what if you've been a good boy today, you can do 3628 04:00:15.760 --> 04:00:22.159 whatever you United States? I thought, America, Yeah, you know what 3629 04:00:22.239 --> 04:00:26.840 you gotta do. I don't know what a blast zone here? Oh my 3630 04:00:26.959 --> 04:00:35.079 god, you will get what you make it. So yeah, no water, 3631 04:00:37.559 --> 04:00:39.680 I would do that. That went bad for me last time. Birthday 3632 04:00:39.799 --> 04:00:43.799 could be in water world. Okay, get a job, no, no, 3633 04:00:45.040 --> 04:00:46.559 what, just walk down this path. What do you mean you want 3634 04:00:46.600 --> 04:00:50.280 to be in water? I want to be explain you want to be in 3635 04:00:50.440 --> 04:00:54.440 the room where it happens. I don't think anymore. We got to be 3636 04:00:54.600 --> 04:00:56.479 royalty. I want to be in it. I don't want to be any 3637 04:00:56.520 --> 04:01:00.959 the people caught the fall because I do that. I want to do that. 3638 04:01:01.040 --> 04:01:05.280 You do mister before you fall off to Dan was trying to bargain with 3639 04:01:05.360 --> 04:01:07.159 me. He's like, Mike, I'll say any Disney thing you want, 3640 04:01:07.639 --> 04:01:11.040 I'll do whatever you any movie. Just jump out of a plane with me. 3641 04:01:13.319 --> 04:01:16.680 I made it. I made it. Whatever, jump out of the 3642 04:01:16.719 --> 04:01:22.120 play in Minnesota. Just I know you're not going to do it. Humor 3643 04:01:22.239 --> 04:01:26.000 him, What is the most Disney thing you could make him do? They 3644 04:01:26.200 --> 04:01:33.280 would go Disney David Ruder could get me that room in the castle. They 3645 04:01:33.399 --> 04:01:43.360 only said, like celebrities, the dream suite. I will still probably not 3646 04:01:43.479 --> 04:01:46.040 jump out of. How do I get in a dream suite? What do 3647 04:01:46.040 --> 04:01:50.760 you have to do? You can make it. The dream suite is not 3648 04:01:50.879 --> 04:01:52.799 in the castle, it's above Pirates of the Caribbean. Okay, that's a 3649 04:01:52.799 --> 04:02:00.319 different thing we're thinking about there too. There's we cannot have this argument. 3650 04:02:01.000 --> 04:02:05.000 This cannot happen here, guys. I came in here with two drinks. 3651 04:02:05.200 --> 04:02:09.159 I think I could make the argument that he once make us. He made 3652 04:02:09.200 --> 04:02:16.239 a call. That's the argument. Mary, I didn't love the way either 3653 04:02:16.520 --> 04:02:28.079 want to draw him up big, like an actual grown up today. Well, 3654 04:02:28.120 --> 04:02:33.680 I said, you've come a long way since last year. He had 3655 04:02:33.799 --> 04:02:41.600 choosing everything. Seven minutes trying to get Mike MANAUGHTI to try Barada, and 3656 04:02:41.680 --> 04:02:48.159 I think that that's not weird. I had that thing. It was persona 3657 04:02:48.280 --> 04:02:52.479 I hate it and it was good as hell. It was great and I 3658 04:02:52.600 --> 04:02:56.319 never had idiots brought I had. I don't look cheese whatever, but all 3659 04:02:56.399 --> 04:03:03.639 that it was would beat beats that. It was not a strong flavor. 3660 04:03:03.719 --> 04:03:05.440 It was fuss. No. I don't care what the play, but the 3661 04:03:05.520 --> 04:03:09.079 color was upsetting. You have a great jolly rancher. I know we're putting 3662 04:03:09.120 --> 04:03:11.040 Mike in his place, but let's be clear. Before we got there, 3663 04:03:11.079 --> 04:03:15.920 he was like worried about eating anything, and he left me like that was 3664 04:03:16.000 --> 04:03:20.520 great time. When I was when I was literally planning the menu, I 3665 04:03:20.719 --> 04:03:24.399 was like, is Michael he didn't eat? He said so, and he 3666 04:03:24.799 --> 04:03:28.680 like literally d m me and he's like, what's the fucking deal on dinner? 3667 04:03:31.360 --> 04:03:33.760 It was not that aggressive, it was not I just said, what's 3668 04:03:33.840 --> 04:03:37.959 the well. I was also confused because I thought we were going to a 3669 04:03:37.000 --> 04:03:41.639 place, but then I had to fill out a Google form that's a great 3670 04:03:41.680 --> 04:03:46.399 Google Well was great, Nikki. You can ask you something. Did you 3671 04:03:46.680 --> 04:03:50.520 to send me the Google form because you trusted I would just eat stuff like 3672 04:03:50.559 --> 04:03:56.680 a normal an adult. That is literally exactly because I noticed, like I 3673 04:03:56.719 --> 04:03:58.520 didn't know was individual things or if we were voting. Okay, so here's 3674 04:04:00.120 --> 04:04:01.520 people having Yeah yeah, wait, I don't know what happened here, tell 3675 04:04:01.559 --> 04:04:05.319 me, yeah, I made the Google form right every time, I'm just 3676 04:04:05.959 --> 04:04:09.280 oh, that's what I did. At the fan by Richard, I made 3677 04:04:09.319 --> 04:04:13.200 a Google form and then I didn't take any of the people contrib and I 3678 04:04:13.360 --> 04:04:18.040 was like, here's what I was money. It was, yeah, it 3679 04:04:18.159 --> 04:04:20.799 was ten cents money. Can you believe it's only two days on my birthday? 3680 04:04:20.840 --> 04:04:31.440 Sorry? I can't. He really picked a spot, yeah, so 3681 04:04:31.520 --> 04:04:35.639 don't let her do this. So I was like, oh, I'm going 3682 04:04:35.719 --> 04:04:39.520 to pick the top two that everyone picked and then tie breakers. I made 3683 04:04:39.520 --> 04:04:43.760 the decision. I really So the corondo was a tie with something else that 3684 04:04:43.879 --> 04:04:50.159 I didn't want. Did I not get my Carnelis because I got I had 3685 04:04:50.239 --> 04:05:07.040 chicken? So next to me it was my I want salary. That everybody 3686 04:05:09.239 --> 04:05:18.719 that's the big full size back together. Yeah, it's like it's like a 3687 04:05:18.799 --> 04:05:22.000 twin with it's a twin with ambitions. CO is easy nice. Actually I 3688 04:05:22.040 --> 04:05:24.319 slept great, that would be real. Well, I have my sea pep 3689 04:05:24.360 --> 04:05:28.719 now, so I didn't snore at least that's cute, do you guys? 3690 04:05:28.879 --> 04:05:35.280 Every sea PEPs are regular, They're pretty you got you got the you got 3691 04:05:35.319 --> 04:05:39.920 the faces. When you say, Mike knows, he knows, I know. 3692 04:05:39.959 --> 04:05:41.959 But you said you're pretty quiet. No, the sea pat is pretty 3693 04:05:41.000 --> 04:05:45.680 quiet. Yes. Oh yeah. It took us on things like a relative. 3694 04:05:46.239 --> 04:05:54.479 No, No, I want to know good goods. Not worried about 3695 04:05:54.479 --> 04:05:58.120 this. Yeah, I'm like, I'm not letting Mike make the person Why? 3696 04:05:58.200 --> 04:06:01.719 And Marry asked us, I'm let like make the first movie and I'm 3697 04:06:01.399 --> 04:06:16.200 tot clothed everything. I look at the negotiations of stuff. He says, 3698 04:06:16.799 --> 04:06:22.000 you don't mind if I sleep with my box. I'm not slipping on a 3699 04:06:22.520 --> 04:06:31.840 T shirt? What am I car? Two characters like, I'm not swimming 3700 04:06:31.879 --> 04:06:37.959 with pants on. Like, I'm like, no, I sleep so fucking 3701 04:06:37.079 --> 04:06:41.680 hot, but I have to be clothed because if I'm not clothed when I 3702 04:06:41.760 --> 04:06:50.000 sleep, you sw I don't know what they say, you know, maybe 3703 04:06:50.079 --> 04:06:54.799 the poor bearant? Are you straight? But I don't know. No, 3704 04:06:54.040 --> 04:06:56.639 this is a lie or work. This is exactly And I'm like, okay, 3705 04:06:56.760 --> 04:07:01.680 that's fine. I'm like, should pretty well. This will not bother 3706 04:07:01.760 --> 04:07:03.559 me at all. That's the truth. I thought. I put on my 3707 04:07:03.600 --> 04:07:07.360 pajama pants a T shirt and I slept like that and I fell right to 3708 04:07:07.440 --> 04:07:11.520 sleep. So how did it work? Did you guys do like opposite size? 3709 04:07:11.559 --> 04:07:15.920 Like no, no, no, I'm not gonnat smelling feet. No, 3710 04:07:16.680 --> 04:07:20.200 I respect too much for that. Do you think your feet are the 3711 04:07:20.280 --> 04:07:28.120 problem in this equation? Was I was a little spook? Was family put 3712 04:07:28.200 --> 04:07:31.840 quack Auga over huge? Yeah? You don't think Wacocka was already over? 3713 04:07:33.280 --> 04:07:35.479 Well? Like you know, it was like good mid carter Interconminental championship run. 3714 04:07:35.559 --> 04:07:45.399 Maybe the situational fit picture. Yeah about way back? How are you 3715 04:07:45.600 --> 04:07:48.680 doing, Jeff? Yeah, yeah, I was gonna like someone else's your 3716 04:07:48.840 --> 04:07:54.559 damon got back to him. What do you think I'm wearing to bed tonight? 3717 04:07:58.159 --> 04:08:05.559 I got a hot little number for you. I got it's surprising today 3718 04:08:05.639 --> 04:08:09.200 And Jeff in my you know boxers, it's like that was really impressive that 3719 04:08:09.280 --> 04:08:16.639 you interviewed, Like Sam, that's so cute and so intimate. You should 3720 04:08:16.799 --> 04:08:22.520 do that. I don't want to work network. I GOTPN you guys say, 3721 04:08:22.719 --> 04:08:26.440 let me watch good Night to each Other before you fell asleep, Like 3722 04:08:26.559 --> 04:08:31.040 Mikey, it's cute. I'm going a Mikey, that's cute. A little 3723 04:08:31.520 --> 04:08:35.840 that's really clue you like get all in there, stuggle in, yeah, 3724 04:08:35.879 --> 04:08:39.399 like like the Han solo put Luke Skywalker in. Then the game of Chicken 3725 04:08:39.479 --> 04:08:45.200 began. I'm not on my Disney trip. I saw a Milkbusters where they 3726 04:08:45.280 --> 04:08:50.520 like made a tanton. I thought about it. No, that was before 3727 04:08:50.600 --> 04:08:54.840 me. That was exciting. Yeah, they did kind of a bad job 3728 04:08:54.879 --> 04:09:01.319 and to like almost that's why I didn't work Jane. Wasn't me that with 3729 04:09:01.479 --> 04:09:03.840 Jan's bout around and so wee should be asking where is Jan? That's how 3730 04:09:03.040 --> 04:09:07.680 I'm always asking where Jan is? The answer is always sers I know, 3731 04:09:07.920 --> 04:09:18.159 yeah, oh Ship, he's feeling unsafe. He found to cool and that's 3732 04:09:18.239 --> 04:09:24.000 fine. Where are you going coming out? You're about come be mine? 3733 04:09:24.159 --> 04:09:37.639 Please absolutely, Michael want to say some problematic things about Italian Michael, Italian 3734 04:09:43.600 --> 04:09:50.120 young, everybody ever being a problematic figure. I'll come You's nice comis on 3735 04:09:50.440 --> 04:09:56.120 you, guys, think the win Game of the Year tomorrow. Yeah, 3736 04:09:58.079 --> 04:10:01.319 I think that had a lot of momento. But now, like Alan Wait 3737 04:10:01.360 --> 04:10:05.120 came and really surprised everybody. I'm saying about them. It's like Times person 3738 04:10:05.200 --> 04:10:09.840 of the year. You know, it's not sure we're bad necessarily i'st person 3739 04:10:09.879 --> 04:10:28.840 of the year exactly. The norm is that the first not like facts that 3740 04:10:30.040 --> 04:10:43.040 time, the time till nine eleven, it's got it matter bad person that's 3741 04:10:43.239 --> 04:10:48.639 column call them is your person of the year, like a dude. Okay, 3742 04:10:54.200 --> 04:10:56.760 let me genuinely, here's my understanding and tell me if I'm sure I 3743 04:10:58.000 --> 04:11:00.120 saw the movies. I tried to read the first book. Yeah, my 3744 04:11:00.319 --> 04:11:07.959 understanding is do you mean like the Fellowship Fellow? My understanding this my genuine 3745 04:11:07.040 --> 04:11:13.079 understanding. Gollum was like a shoot dude. And then then he got the 3746 04:11:13.319 --> 04:11:16.959 ring and he got all fucked up. That's it, that's it really right 3747 04:11:16.079 --> 04:11:20.200 now. Yeah, yeah, I just want to I don't a lot about 3748 04:11:20.200 --> 04:11:20.760 it. I want to get through. I had that right time. That 3749 04:11:22.159 --> 04:11:26.159 helped you. Okay, But here's the important thing that happened after that he 3750 04:11:26.399 --> 04:11:35.639 was in a game again. For all of his means were ripped directly from 3751 04:11:35.760 --> 04:11:39.120 Prince of Persia, sands and time. That's really funny. Wait that game? 3752 04:11:41.760 --> 04:11:43.920 I still I'm not doing. Get moving on. Can't gollum vote? 3753 04:11:45.719 --> 04:11:52.760 I wish you wouldn't he actually democracy? When he takes the ring off? 3754 04:11:52.799 --> 04:11:54.200 Does he turned into a dude again? Is he like? No, he 3755 04:11:54.280 --> 04:11:58.440 doesn't have the ring? Is there any going back? No? No, 3756 04:11:58.680 --> 04:12:01.600 he's too fun. It's just like, what's your how take us for a 3757 04:12:01.639 --> 04:12:05.000 birthday? You want to be today? Okay? It's like people that have 3758 04:12:05.040 --> 04:12:09.719 been like eat like a metheatics. That's like stop doing math and work out 3759 04:12:09.760 --> 04:12:15.200 and not. Its okay. We have to talk to each other. We 3760 04:12:15.280 --> 04:12:18.200 have to talk to each other. It's confident. Is this cross talk? 3761 04:12:18.319 --> 04:12:24.120 Not like what I bet the pretty barny? Hey if I have a problem 3762 04:12:24.159 --> 04:12:28.719 that my license expires on my birthday? No, okay, why is the 3763 04:12:28.799 --> 04:12:33.920 first day? No? You have to wait birthday every like like Friday, 3764 04:12:35.000 --> 04:12:39.399 like like before you need to fly. Going to be fine with that as 3765 04:12:39.440 --> 04:12:43.840 long as it's in the window. So my license is currently inspired you take 3766 04:12:43.920 --> 04:12:46.760 care. I didn't think about that. I mean the my license is currently 3767 04:12:50.200 --> 04:12:56.639 yeah, well that dates fast approach back. Every time you take your license 3768 04:12:56.719 --> 04:13:01.360 out, you're like, oh, better make sure it's like no one tells 3769 04:13:01.360 --> 04:13:03.840 the state of Ohio. But I still have an Ohio learner's people. I'm 3770 04:13:03.920 --> 04:13:09.639 sure I scheduled are you fourteen in the photos? Because like if it expires 3771 04:13:09.680 --> 04:13:11.600 in Colorado before you move the other state, like you have to like take 3772 04:13:11.680 --> 04:13:15.719 the test again. And I think the tests are like four months round. 3773 04:13:15.719 --> 04:13:18.799 You can take a test. I can't play that far ahead. I can't 3774 04:13:18.799 --> 04:13:28.520 play a week ahead anymore. That never happened too much. Remember that guy 3775 04:13:28.559 --> 04:13:31.440 almost ran over when we went to Cleveland last time, Man, I knew 3776 04:13:31.440 --> 04:13:37.520 you would remember that. I mean putting this up news that part of the 3777 04:13:37.520 --> 04:13:41.680 windshield where like the bar is okay, I almost ran a guy over. 3778 04:13:43.879 --> 04:13:54.280 He felt real bad about what were we doing? I haven't told I had 3779 04:13:54.319 --> 04:13:58.040 the Tommy Mouhammad Disney we were you were figuring mail for game. That's the 3780 04:13:58.079 --> 04:14:03.159 biggest high play. I had to take me to Margaritaville because I won some 3781 04:14:03.360 --> 04:14:07.440 made up game show on our podcast. We have made up game shows. 3782 04:14:07.520 --> 04:14:16.280 That's your whole m O wants who wants to go to Margaritaville until I wont 3783 04:14:18.239 --> 04:14:24.559 But even if you won, I was the host, but you but either 3784 04:14:24.639 --> 04:14:26.719 way you would have had to go to Margarita. Ya. We wanted to 3785 04:14:26.799 --> 04:14:37.840 go like corporated, like the paper. Okay, okay, it's a just 3786 04:14:37.959 --> 04:14:41.680 want to take a second. Aready got say that? I think drug emmaculate. 3787 04:14:45.920 --> 04:14:50.000 I can't believe this three more times? Does it? Yeah? I 3788 04:14:50.040 --> 04:14:54.639 wouldn't know. I was home playing Sandwich playing. You know, I really 3789 04:14:54.719 --> 04:14:56.840 like doing this. This is like big part of this, Like, hey, 3790 04:14:58.319 --> 04:15:01.639 you didn't like doing this, re the right, that'd be a little 3791 04:15:01.639 --> 04:15:03.639 bit mean, but no, I like you much. Yeah, this is 3792 04:15:03.680 --> 04:15:05.600 a big part of like why I want to do this In the first place. 3793 04:15:05.639 --> 04:15:07.719 We work at Giant Bomb is like, hey, I think those Giant 3794 04:15:07.719 --> 04:15:09.040 Bomb at night things are pretty cool. I would like them to keep happening. 3795 04:15:09.440 --> 04:15:13.040 And the amount of work that people have done to ensure that happens is 3796 04:15:13.360 --> 04:15:16.479 really heartwarming to me. It means so much that people have like, hey, 3797 04:15:16.559 --> 04:15:18.159 yeah, no it's important to you. It's important to me too, 3798 04:15:18.239 --> 04:15:20.760 Let's make it happen. So yeah, it just means the world. Thank 3799 04:15:20.799 --> 04:15:24.159 you everybody. Also, is what makes you so good at your job because 3800 04:15:24.200 --> 04:15:28.799 you acknowledge that there's hard work on all ends and I'm not working art, 3801 04:15:28.799 --> 04:15:33.719 so someone must but you want It's just because you're wearing a sweater doesn't mean 3802 04:15:33.760 --> 04:15:41.840 you're not. I don't know. Maybe yeah, maybe, I don't know. 3803 04:15:41.920 --> 04:15:46.399 It is it is unbelievable, Like now this is the we all celebrate 3804 04:15:46.479 --> 04:15:52.040 chefugh Crabit section of the program. But it's like it is legitimately so difficult 3805 04:15:52.200 --> 04:15:58.760 to maintain a smattering of people. Obviously, this set of chuckle Fox, 3806 04:15:58.879 --> 04:16:00.239 this set of fuck is is different, right, Like we know each other, 3807 04:16:00.959 --> 04:16:06.520 like who had met each other four feet away from here, come in 3808 04:16:06.719 --> 04:16:12.200 and like making everybody feel comfortable and safe my birthday. You can't go three 3809 04:16:12.399 --> 04:16:44.319 seconds man between two crouches all. It's exactly like, I'm glad I don't 3810 04:16:44.360 --> 04:16:48.120 have any standis in my house. I think they would scare me yea walking 3811 04:16:48.200 --> 04:16:52.319 room and think it was I'm sorry, sure I put over a chair. 3812 04:16:52.479 --> 04:16:56.600 I'm afraid of stuff I know is already in the house and I have a 3813 04:16:56.639 --> 04:17:00.600 standy or my brother has Sandy and Keita from Atlantis and is room for a 3814 04:17:00.680 --> 04:17:07.440 while. I have been cat scared by my own cats. Fucked. I 3815 04:17:07.520 --> 04:17:11.159 had one of the undertaker. I never had a closing ship at the movie 3816 04:17:11.200 --> 04:17:12.399 theater. I'd come home and like one of the morning my mom or my 3817 04:17:12.520 --> 04:17:15.760 sisters would have moved it directly in front of my bedroom door. I'd walk 3818 04:17:15.799 --> 04:17:22.920 in. Thank you so much. Take here for welcoming to welcoming me to 3819 04:17:22.040 --> 04:17:30.879 my own what we were notorious for scaring Mike Maharty with a cutout of Obama. 3820 04:17:30.319 --> 04:17:37.920 And when when Marty got married, we t Moore brought the cutout and 3821 04:17:38.559 --> 04:17:45.280 his own wedding. He got scared. Mike Minorty's from upstate New York. 3822 04:17:45.280 --> 04:17:49.799 They're all scared of Obama up there. You never expected at your wedding. 3823 04:17:52.120 --> 04:18:00.280 God, I forgot you were there. I was standing wow, way wait, 3824 04:18:00.280 --> 04:18:04.000 wait, wait, Pitler, he's all right about please signed up back 3825 04:18:04.200 --> 04:18:18.639 going there to I think I've seen over here a little bit. Are you 3826 04:18:18.760 --> 04:18:25.000 show her? You're not talking about man? I'm sorry, dodge his name 3827 04:18:25.079 --> 04:18:30.760 and be we're all looking for the guy who did this. I don't know 3828 04:18:30.799 --> 04:18:34.959 what we do now. I don't like it's Zach left that. Oh there's 3829 04:18:36.000 --> 04:18:41.680 nobody loves the shoes perfect forever. Yeah, yeah, the show. I 3830 04:18:41.760 --> 04:18:47.040 can't believe that. Okays the show? Okay yeah special special shout outs twelve 3831 04:18:47.200 --> 04:18:55.680 million podcast points to Zach. Yeah, it's going to point out. Okay, 3832 04:18:55.760 --> 04:18:59.200 he's going. He's literally gone in here. I don't know how we 3833 04:18:59.280 --> 04:19:07.680 get out of hell. We'll go to the hours, we'll top ten ghost. 3834 04:19:07.840 --> 04:19:15.280 Oh yeah, wait, hold on please, trying to a bit o. 3835 04:19:15.559 --> 04:19:22.360 He's hold on everybody banana bread, banana bread, than you can't find 3836 04:19:22.479 --> 04:19:26.200 Zach. He's gonna see what happened and if Zach is still with us. 3837 04:19:26.360 --> 04:19:30.879 But what was it like actually getting like Sam Lake and them, like were 3838 04:19:30.920 --> 04:19:33.520 they like just getting ready to go and they were already he was already aware. 3839 04:19:33.559 --> 04:19:36.760 I think Lucy might have talked to him. I saw I was going 3840 04:19:36.799 --> 04:19:38.479 down to the Yeah, yeah, I was going to the gym this morning 3841 04:19:38.520 --> 04:19:41.879 in the elevator and it was just meet and Sam Lake and I'm just like 3842 04:19:41.959 --> 04:19:44.639 on my gym clothes and he's in a full like suit and everything. I'm 3843 04:19:44.760 --> 04:19:47.440 like, hey, congrats on the air. And then he's like, oh, 3844 04:19:47.639 --> 04:19:49.959 and I asked Jim on business trips. Yeah, it's the only time 3845 04:19:49.959 --> 04:19:52.200 I go to the gym I do. I try to look professional, like, 3846 04:19:52.239 --> 04:19:55.280 oh, I care about my body. It's the only time I put 3847 04:19:55.319 --> 04:19:59.200 on loutions. I never remember, but then when it's there, like I 3848 04:19:59.239 --> 04:20:03.120 should probably say I got three bottles care. I'm not trying to. I 3849 04:20:03.159 --> 04:20:08.159 can't remember that I'm going to use it, or use lotion for that matter. 3850 04:20:08.719 --> 04:20:11.360 Let me bring that plenty for you. I'm gonna change you to it. 3851 04:20:11.399 --> 04:20:25.000 After this, I'll take my teeth out of totally. How much money 3852 04:20:25.040 --> 04:20:29.760 is in your wall? So I got a new happened? It's a foot 3853 04:20:29.799 --> 04:20:34.799 will go right there. I'm in danger. I want to get married your 3854 04:20:34.840 --> 04:20:40.000 survival tips from my house next week. Oh yeah, if you need to 3855 04:20:40.239 --> 04:20:44.239 vomit uncontrollably, go right on top of the basement stairs and no one uses 3856 04:20:44.319 --> 04:20:48.280 and you go through like a wounded animal and just let it go. He 3857 04:20:48.399 --> 04:20:52.360 flew to my house to vomit and shipped for twenty four hours and thirty hours. 3858 04:20:52.479 --> 04:20:55.399 Yeah, and not eat that all because I couldn't. Can everyone just 3859 04:20:55.520 --> 04:21:00.319 appreciating the case. Fabulous fucking body suit? Yeah? What what are they? 3860 04:21:00.440 --> 04:21:03.479 They're not jumpers? They're up jump and there's a jump. Okay, 3861 04:21:03.520 --> 04:21:07.600 what's the one that shorts rappers? I want to pull off ropers? You 3862 04:21:07.680 --> 04:21:14.639 could do it literally nothing A little bit of hearts allow, yes, but 3863 04:21:14.840 --> 04:21:23.360 pull off exactly. We should get some courage and parts for for next year, 3864 04:21:23.879 --> 04:21:26.520 we should get matching roppers. Yes, that's okay. Yeah, like 3865 04:21:26.600 --> 04:21:34.680 all of us are just YouTube, all of us, those dads having where 3866 04:21:34.719 --> 04:21:38.399 they're like, my stupid wife brought me. Can we can we get matching 3867 04:21:38.520 --> 04:21:42.319 like shirts like we're in Disney World. We can do that if you wear 3868 04:21:42.360 --> 04:21:48.479 the rompers. Oh yeah, SUTs a rapper, you know, and you'll 3869 04:21:48.520 --> 04:21:55.959 find like a Onesie. Give me more, Yeah, like a Onesie but 3870 04:21:56.120 --> 04:22:00.840 without the parts. Yes, what's the bull? Some thing you ever tried 3871 04:22:00.879 --> 04:22:15.239 to do? You're learning at on everybody. You don't need to answer anymore. 3872 04:22:15.680 --> 04:22:22.600 Yeah, the young bucks where rappers all the time. Oh like the 3873 04:22:22.680 --> 04:22:29.799 os sorry, the like as they're casual clothes. They went rompers like my 3874 04:22:30.239 --> 04:22:33.760 expensive Nike shoes just to feel something. Yeah of course, yeah that's everyone 3875 04:22:33.280 --> 04:22:40.680 Snike shoes, Cuba think you thinking photos. Well, we're alive on the 3876 04:22:41.000 --> 04:22:45.399 air. Anything goes, anything goes. It's the last segment. There really 3877 04:22:45.440 --> 04:22:52.479 are no long rus not sing anything started to do. No, I do 3878 04:22:59.799 --> 04:23:04.280 have a drinking anything goes at the idiot Michael, tell me more about the 3879 04:23:04.360 --> 04:23:10.719 theme drinks we had because I got sure, so we had a drink for 3880 04:23:10.879 --> 04:23:14.280 infinitely. You have it over here you get them innue. Yeah, you 3881 04:23:14.319 --> 04:23:18.920 have one for each of the game of your nomine Surprisingly, the re was 3882 04:23:18.959 --> 04:23:27.840 the best drink. Shout out to Ben Daughters the drinks for us to consume, 3883 04:23:29.000 --> 04:23:33.799 and I brought them and Grubs told one of them comment here that the 3884 04:23:33.040 --> 04:23:40.719 you got the al one there and I'm drinking they are like a dragon drink. 3885 04:23:41.639 --> 04:23:44.559 That's a lot where the chef would put together a theme dinner of like 3886 04:23:44.959 --> 04:23:48.559 this. This course is going to come out the part of the movie and 3887 04:23:48.600 --> 04:24:00.600 then we're gonna have theme drinks as well. It was the best fatty fancy. 3888 04:24:02.239 --> 04:24:06.639 I went to an anime award show and they had themed drinks and they 3889 04:24:06.680 --> 04:24:11.520 had a ury on ice and it was what it makes a lot of Yeah, 3890 04:24:11.520 --> 04:24:15.000 the other one would make as much sense. Did she get my hero 3891 04:24:15.159 --> 04:24:18.879 academia? The beverage doesn't make a lot? Well, I mean it can 3892 04:24:18.959 --> 04:24:23.799 have like like to believe that's about school. Yeah, it's like X Men. 3893 04:24:23.959 --> 04:24:30.040 Yeah cool, you're in here the whole time. Really cool? Ye? 3894 04:24:30.479 --> 04:24:37.040 All bank godard on Twitch. Oh wait, these aren't puns. This 3895 04:24:37.280 --> 04:24:47.360 is the Spider Man drinks. No, it's allers Hard on the Place starring 3896 04:24:47.440 --> 04:24:56.639 Alan. Week two familiar with my favorite actor Alan to hell Tom makes too, 3897 04:24:56.840 --> 04:24:59.879 but he's up there. Yeah. I told Sam Link that I got 3898 04:25:00.120 --> 04:25:02.680 scared because my cat jumped, and he went, that's not my fault. 3899 04:25:02.840 --> 04:25:12.319 Yeah, that's right. No, no, no, you can't brew that. 3900 04:25:15.680 --> 04:25:18.760 You can't prove that. You can't prove that. You can't prove anything. 3901 04:25:18.239 --> 04:25:22.840 Podcast hear about anything. You can't prove anything, milk, nobody can 3902 04:25:22.920 --> 04:25:29.719 prove anything. Nobody can prove anything. I hate. This is his fault 3903 04:25:29.760 --> 04:25:32.719 for making Pew pressure me into doing it that way. I was gonna open 3904 04:25:32.760 --> 04:25:36.440 it like, yeah, this is a dear episode. Didn't can show up 3905 04:25:36.479 --> 04:25:40.520 and my deer as well as like a dragon infinite wealthy. You can't come 3906 04:25:40.559 --> 04:25:42.680 in here putting up with us. I think we really go. Mary, 3907 04:25:42.920 --> 04:25:49.120 thank you, thank you so much, Thank you Mary. Sorry they never 3908 04:25:49.200 --> 04:25:59.360 forget. No apology isn't enough. Mary. I appreciate you here. I 3909 04:26:00.319 --> 04:26:15.360 deal with all of like for it looks very hurt right now. I'm normal, 3910 04:26:17.760 --> 04:26:22.520 I'm normal and I'm regular. I can ride a bike again. I've 3911 04:26:22.600 --> 04:26:25.719 never wanted to know how to write a bike and I'm not going to start 3912 04:26:25.840 --> 04:26:30.879 now. Voice actor and war friend oh ship, wait what relation? It 3913 04:26:30.000 --> 04:26:41.719 definitely wasn't a joke, okay, but you was. I'm a work about 3914 04:26:41.799 --> 04:26:45.600 black Shot, and I'm like, that would be a great game for a 3915 04:26:45.680 --> 04:26:52.280 war friend, quack Shot. You're a game designer and a voice act Cripple 3916 04:26:52.360 --> 04:26:57.079 double. Yes, that's a game you got right there. Yeah, I 3917 04:26:57.200 --> 04:27:03.040 think you have a distinct voice and it would lend itself well to like characters 3918 04:27:03.159 --> 04:27:17.559 that are like coming out of pushes. Yeah, someone that would see in 3919 04:27:17.680 --> 04:27:22.280 a parking garage. Give me a take. Ye, I know what a 3920 04:27:22.440 --> 04:27:26.879 but you look pretty nice. I just want to say that your day, 3921 04:27:27.079 --> 04:27:34.440 Yeah about like an animated I hold your car window. I want to talk 3922 04:27:34.479 --> 04:27:45.280 to. On the one hand, I know I said on the podcast that 3923 04:27:45.399 --> 04:27:48.440 he wasn't even on to defend himself and he had Hamburglar energy. But on 3924 04:27:48.559 --> 04:27:56.719 the other hand, it was his birthday week, his birthday. It's like 3925 04:27:56.360 --> 04:28:03.600 Hamburglar and for real, Like, I'm why is he brought up? He 3926 04:28:03.799 --> 04:28:17.920 brought up Hitler, He's brought up. You can't just say that somebody did 3927 04:28:18.719 --> 04:28:26.840 your secret regular historic tragedy bring up. There's too much of a deep cut 3928 04:28:26.879 --> 04:28:34.280 that it does become offensive. Somebody about Jesus what, No, No, 3929 04:28:34.600 --> 04:28:38.040 okay, this is one of the legitimately basic superstart. This is one of 3930 04:28:38.079 --> 04:28:42.120 the actually my favorite crazy there's a there's a brought up to this live and 3931 04:28:42.200 --> 04:28:47.959 joy because it's not gonna be our company. There's a ride at California Adventure 3932 04:28:47.959 --> 04:28:53.319 that is currently themed after Monsters in Monster that Extreme Fact. That used to 3933 04:28:53.440 --> 04:28:57.360 be a ride where you got in a cab and then you chase celebrities or 3934 04:28:57.520 --> 04:29:04.079 limo sorry yeah you and you chase celebrities around and then this gowhere maybe we 3935 04:29:04.239 --> 04:29:08.559 can't do that, and nobody liked it, Like the right sucks you just 3936 04:29:08.680 --> 04:29:22.840 like then there's Drew Carrey, but he's still there all Drew Cary, my 3937 04:29:22.920 --> 04:29:26.399 mail, Drew, leave me alone. Disney spent all this money making these 3938 04:29:26.520 --> 04:29:33.200 very realistic representations, like these figures animatronics of all of these celebrities. But 3939 04:29:33.440 --> 04:29:34.840 they were like, we spent all this money, they still do move. 3940 04:29:34.959 --> 04:29:37.920 What's the solution. We're wreathingming the right tomorrow the zink. We'll put them 3941 04:29:37.959 --> 04:29:41.920 all in the yellow suit. That yellow has Matt suits. So when you 3942 04:29:41.000 --> 04:29:45.200 go through the ride, it's all just the same actors. They've literally just 3943 04:29:45.280 --> 04:29:47.959 put suits on them. You go through there, Drew carry is still there. 3944 04:29:48.040 --> 04:29:51.600 You go through one room and there's a guy doing a karate and that's 3945 04:29:51.680 --> 04:29:55.760 just Jackie Chip. Wait, so like legally is Drew Carrey seeing royalties of 3946 04:29:55.879 --> 04:30:00.799 this not anymore? No? Was the last year mar Harry in a yellow 3947 04:30:00.920 --> 04:30:04.159 suit? Curious a Disney thought? By the way, Yeah, I love 3948 04:30:04.239 --> 04:30:17.360 that. Should try and normalize. Oh yeah, we'll see who is the 3949 04:30:17.440 --> 04:30:22.239 coolest dress? Jesse elbow, elbow, We're gone. If it works your 3950 04:30:22.280 --> 04:30:29.520 hand, you're doing it wrong. It's this is this people too far over 3951 04:30:29.600 --> 04:30:33.120 people? Wait, make him do it right first? This you gotta do 3952 04:30:33.200 --> 04:30:41.920 this throw? Was that good? Yeah? Okay, alright, daddy's that 3953 04:30:41.040 --> 04:30:48.120 good? Scream? Don't be reckless? You over your pants? Yeah, 3954 04:30:48.200 --> 04:30:56.040 now you can do you gotta do it up those Yeah, but nothing to 3955 04:30:56.120 --> 04:31:02.639 do. Look, someone has to put that up. And that person's name 3956 04:31:02.680 --> 04:31:04.159 is Mike manaughty because we got yelled at this place. Seems to be good 3957 04:31:04.159 --> 04:31:15.639 for nine am tomorrow. So that's on it isn't is it? Yeah, 3958 04:31:15.120 --> 04:31:21.319 that's not referred to. I'm using this studio. Okay, you're here too, 3959 04:31:21.440 --> 04:31:26.879 you're here to I have to do we're game speed. Oh yeah, 3960 04:31:30.200 --> 04:31:33.920 yes, the studio is just like on the door and a bear might kill 3961 04:31:33.000 --> 04:31:44.920 you in a minute. Mike, who is the coolest Disney adults? Absolutely 3962 04:31:45.600 --> 04:31:52.200 grub Thank God. I don't know what to say. I guess clearly. 3963 04:31:52.280 --> 04:31:56.879 I haven't know what all night, but uh, thanks for watching. It 3964 04:31:56.959 --> 04:32:00.479 means a ton once again, like I'm saying this for this is that no 3965 04:32:00.520 --> 04:32:02.360 one told me to say this part. I don't have to say the beginning 3966 04:32:02.440 --> 04:32:06.200 seconds thanks to leg and dragging infinite Well this would not have happened without that. 3967 04:32:06.399 --> 04:32:08.719 So thanks, baby, it is the x T. If you are 3968 04:32:10.040 --> 04:32:11.520 still trying to get tickets, they're probably sold out. I've been a few. 3969 04:32:11.760 --> 04:32:15.719 There's a couple left, like literally a baby's whisper. But watch it 3970 04:32:15.760 --> 04:32:18.920 live. We're gonna be streaming it. Hang out with us tomorrow morning. 3971 04:32:18.959 --> 04:32:22.079 We're gonna be streaming our whittling down process. Watch that. Come hang out 3972 04:32:22.079 --> 04:32:25.200 with us. Thanks for hanging out with us tonight. For everybody from Giant 3973 04:32:25.280 --> 04:32:26.840 Bomb, I don't know, it's just ast tha, goodbye together, thanks 3974 04:32:26.879 --> 04:32:37.040 for watching everybody. Goodbye over there to turn it off, so everyone wondering, 3975 04:32:37.079 --> 04:32:41.840 shut up right your hand. There we go. There my do do 3976 04:32:41.959 --> 04:32:47.159 it. I don't know which one's to black out. I would just keep 3977 04:32:47.200 --> 04:32:56.840 waving. Are we clear yet? We're doing here we go on now, We're now