WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.960 --> 00:00:10.119 Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys, are you fav 2 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:19.519 It's so like Shay subscribe and rade it five star and me greatest on Quesh 3 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:28.359 today listening a watchie him always keep it's watching. And now your hosts Cliff 4 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:33.880 Berrickman and James Bubo Fay. Hey, what's going on Cliff? Nothing much 5 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:37.119 man, Just excited for tonight's interview. Yep, we got a good one 6 00:00:37.119 --> 00:00:42.399 tonight. We got the legendary Dennis full out of Colorado. Yeah. Yeah, 7 00:00:42.759 --> 00:00:46.920 We've been trying to rope Dennis into this for a long time and we 8 00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:50.880 finally managed to schedule him in. And for anybody who doesn't know who Dennis 9 00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:57.560 is, Dennis is a longtime bigfooter. He has had some first hand experience 10 00:00:57.880 --> 00:01:03.000 with a lot of rather famous situationations over the years, not the least of 11 00:01:03.039 --> 00:01:04.799 which, of course, is the Ericson Project. But he's a great bigfooter 12 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.519 unto himself as well. He's been doing this for a long time. I 13 00:01:08.599 --> 00:01:11.920 venture to say decades, But I mean, why listen to me, man. 14 00:01:11.959 --> 00:01:14.079 We got when we got Dennis on the phone, let's go straight to 15 00:01:14.159 --> 00:01:18.000 him. Dennis, how are you doing this evening? I'm doing good cliffs 16 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:21.799 in Bobo. Thanks for having me, love it. Thanks so much for 17 00:01:21.840 --> 00:01:25.120 coming on, man, I really really appreciate it. Yeah, thank you 18 00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:30.680 so Dennis. For people who don't know who you are, why don't you 19 00:01:30.719 --> 00:01:34.640 give us a little background on yourself. How long you've been doing this bigfoot 20 00:01:34.680 --> 00:01:36.879 thing, maybe what got you into it, and then we'll jump into the 21 00:01:36.879 --> 00:01:40.680 meat of the conversation. Well, I don't want to bore anyone too much. 22 00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:44.760 Is you know, like like many of us out there that get you 23 00:01:44.799 --> 00:01:48.959 know, got into big footing, is we kind of uh, we kind 24 00:01:48.959 --> 00:01:53.640 of got pushed into it involuntarily. We uh, you know, we're we 25 00:01:53.760 --> 00:01:57.640 were big campers and outdoors people here in Colorado and you know, raise my 26 00:01:57.760 --> 00:02:01.079 kids, doing a lot of apping and stuff here in the mountains, and 27 00:02:01.400 --> 00:02:08.000 just had several experiences over a couple of years back around the year two thousand, 28 00:02:08.120 --> 00:02:13.520 ninety nine, two thousand of camping up in the high country here in 29 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:17.879 Colorado, and these experiences, you know, like I said, I'd done 30 00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:23.719 a lot of outdoor stuff and these things were just troubling to me because the 31 00:02:23.800 --> 00:02:30.199 experiences were unusual, you know, just unexplainable, at least in my mind, 32 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:37.639 and I didn't really think bigfoot. I just thought maybe people or bears 33 00:02:37.759 --> 00:02:40.879 that were acting strange around her camps at night in the dark, you know, 34 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:46.960 that kind of stuff. But I just couldn't. I just couldn't, 35 00:02:46.280 --> 00:02:52.039 you know, come to grips with what had happened in those particular areas. 36 00:02:52.560 --> 00:02:54.520 You know, we did a lot of fishing and hiking in all that good 37 00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:59.599 stuff outdoors. And then when bigfoot became part of the equation back then and 38 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:05.319 suddenly this was a reality, it changes your whole your whole way of life, 39 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:08.599 right, it changes the whole paradigm everything you've ever believed in thought. 40 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:14.120 And then in some ways it's kind of like, all right, I get 41 00:03:14.120 --> 00:03:17.800 to go outdoors and not only finish or hike or hunt, but now I 42 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.000 get to, you know, do this big footing thing, and that that 43 00:03:23.159 --> 00:03:25.439 is just a whole, like I said, a whole new dimension that adds 44 00:03:25.479 --> 00:03:36.199 to I think, the incredible excitement of life of living. You know, 45 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:39.159 everyone's got stories, but you're one of the few peple that's actually got real 46 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:46.560 legitimate sasquatch footage. That was, Yeah, the time I spent with the 47 00:03:46.599 --> 00:03:53.800 Erickson project, you know, that was five years from two thousand and five 48 00:03:53.039 --> 00:04:00.439 to roughly twenty ten, when when they kind of you know, holed out 49 00:04:00.439 --> 00:04:04.599 of that whole situation. It was kind of it didn't come to an end 50 00:04:04.599 --> 00:04:10.599 that I would have hoped to have seen, you know, but it was 51 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.240 time, and I'm glad that it's behind me now, I really am. 52 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:18.560 I mean, I've had some experiences with that guys that I just wish, 53 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:26.639 you know, words can't convey. I couldn't try to convince anybody what happened 54 00:04:26.680 --> 00:04:31.399 there. You know, what we experienced, what we've seen told me for 55 00:04:31.439 --> 00:04:38.279 sure that these things are absolutely real and they're incredible. But you'd have to 56 00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.439 been there, I guess, is all I can say. I wish that 57 00:04:41.839 --> 00:04:45.920 it would have gone different in several ways, and that's you know, the 58 00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:49.000 main one was if we could have had better cooperation from the people we were 59 00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:58.519 working with, if you know, we could have been able to do things 60 00:04:58.600 --> 00:05:00.240 the way we wanted to do there. Now I'm going to say that, 61 00:05:00.319 --> 00:05:04.120 you know that it could have turned out better, but I don't really know 62 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:06.879 that. You know, this is a subject that it's just so hard and 63 00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:11.399 difficult to try to get evidence, a good evidence, you know, evidence 64 00:05:11.399 --> 00:05:15.240 that stands on its own that you know, you don't have to uh, 65 00:05:15.519 --> 00:05:19.439 you know, you don't have to explain that. How's that call, Cliff? 66 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:24.360 It stands on its own. Not subjective, you're talking about objective evidence. 67 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:29.160 You're talking not subjective where you need somebody the core objective evidence that stands 68 00:05:29.199 --> 00:05:34.199 on its own, you can you can analyze the evidence without without necessarily knowing 69 00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:39.199 the context, although sometimes the context helps, like the Patterson Gimlin film or 70 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:44.480 a footprint for example. Before we start, you know, meta talking about 71 00:05:44.480 --> 00:05:48.399 this whole situation, you said something really important that it's earlier. It's basically 72 00:05:48.439 --> 00:05:50.959 like, you know, unless you were there, you just can't know. 73 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.920 Basically you didn't. Those weren't the words, but that was the gist. 74 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:59.040 But you were there. You were one of the people who actually lived at 75 00:05:59.040 --> 00:06:01.959 the property often on through the years. You and Leela, I know you 76 00:06:02.040 --> 00:06:05.519 personally, I consider you a friend and a fellow researcher, et cetera. 77 00:06:05.800 --> 00:06:11.759 But you know, to get the story of the ericson project offline, well, 78 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:15.120 that's like a full time endeavor that would probably take weeks because it's been 79 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:20.240 buried under so much nonsense, hogwash, myth legend and stretching of the truth. 80 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:25.240 But you're a witness, you're involved in that, you were involved in 81 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.240 at the time, you were on the site. Can you kind of just 82 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:30.959 give us the gist of how it began and some of the highlights and how 83 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:35.399 the thing ended at the very end of the project, you know, the 84 00:06:35.399 --> 00:06:39.639 whole thing started. And I know you guys were going to be a faro 85 00:06:39.720 --> 00:06:43.000 at the time. And do you guys remember when that report came in. 86 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:46.439 That was in June of two thousand and five. It came in as actually 87 00:06:46.480 --> 00:06:50.560 the initial report came in from the neighbor next door who lived next door to 88 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:56.839 these people, and it was it was the it was the son in law, 89 00:06:57.839 --> 00:07:00.399 I want to say, it was the son in law of the neighbors 90 00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:06.399 who had come over to hang out with with his girlfriend or something and something. 91 00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.079 There was a big commotion next door and the sheriff showed up and some 92 00:07:11.120 --> 00:07:15.879 other stuff happened. And these people, they lived fairly close to each other, 93 00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:19.160 but their property lines dropped way back in the back down Kentucky. If 94 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:24.360 you've been to that part of Kentucky, it's a lot of the homes are 95 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:30.879 built on what they call above the hollows on these little rural roads, and 96 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:35.480 it's it's pretty well back country out there, right. The hollows behind these 97 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:40.839 homes are very thickly wooded, very heavily wooded, and in fact, I 98 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:45.079 was told on a number of occasions, even the people that lived there and 99 00:07:45.160 --> 00:07:48.079 outdoors guys, the enthusiasts don't go into the hollows that much. It's just 100 00:07:48.160 --> 00:07:53.000 that it's overgrown. It's like a jungle, and it really is. I 101 00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:56.879 mean it's a it's an eastern jungle. I mean it's you know, thickets 102 00:07:56.879 --> 00:08:01.680 and thick woods and underbruke rush and some of it's not very easy to get 103 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.879 through. But they wouldn't go down to these hollows. Well, this this 104 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.680 house where they were sitting, dropped off behind the house right into a deep 105 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.000 hollow like that, and the neighbors were next door, they lived, you 106 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:18.360 know, I want to say, sixty seventy yards from them was this other 107 00:08:18.439 --> 00:08:24.040 house and their home dropped off two back behind this hollow. Well, they've 108 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:28.600 been there for a while, and up to that point, I think they 109 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:33.279 dismissed a lot of the strange stuff is you know, just you know, 110 00:08:33.320 --> 00:08:35.440 people will just ignore some of the stuff that happens around there. They just 111 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:39.840 kind of go into the house at night and not pay attention. Well, 112 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:46.320 this couple had moved in and the woman that was involved, she had grown 113 00:08:46.399 --> 00:08:50.840 up on that house, and according to her, her mother was feeding wild 114 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:54.360 animals behind their house at night. Now this is a very rural and poor 115 00:08:54.720 --> 00:08:58.799 part of Kentucky, so these people were not very well off, and you 116 00:08:58.840 --> 00:09:07.279 know, just one of those poorer areas. And she would tell her as 117 00:09:07.320 --> 00:09:09.039 a young girl, when she was four or five, she said she could 118 00:09:09.080 --> 00:09:11.720 remember her mom to, you know, take the dinner scraps out behind the 119 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:16.080 house and put them out to the tree line and feed the wild animals. 120 00:09:18.000 --> 00:09:22.120 But she would follow her mom out there, and her mom would put this 121 00:09:22.159 --> 00:09:24.720 stuff out and go back towards the house. And they said they'd hear sounds 122 00:09:24.799 --> 00:09:28.679 or weird things back there, that they wouldn't pay too much attention. It 123 00:09:28.720 --> 00:09:31.799 was too dark, you know. And one night she said she was looking 124 00:09:31.799 --> 00:09:35.679 out the back window of her house, and at that time, they had 125 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:39.120 an outhouse right at the tree line, you know, back behind the house, 126 00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:43.200 and you know, it's about fifty sixty yards from the back of the 127 00:09:43.279 --> 00:09:48.960 house. And she said that she saw this man look like a man that 128 00:09:48.120 --> 00:09:54.960 was an upright figure standing next to this outhouse. It was in the dark, 129 00:09:54.039 --> 00:09:58.039 but she could see the silhouette and she said that the thing that troubled 130 00:09:58.080 --> 00:10:01.720 her was this man head was as high as the roof of the out house, 131 00:10:01.759 --> 00:10:05.519 which had to be, you know, seventy eight nine foot tall. 132 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.600 And she asked her mom about it. Her mom said, well, that's 133 00:10:09.720 --> 00:10:13.600 just your cousin, you know. She give her some excuse it, you 134 00:10:13.679 --> 00:10:16.879 know. Her mom animated. She knew what it was, but she really 135 00:10:16.919 --> 00:10:20.360 didn't want to scare her tell her. But later on she found out that, 136 00:10:20.799 --> 00:10:26.559 you know this, these things were coming up and taking these dinner scraps, 137 00:10:26.399 --> 00:10:31.080 and as she got older, she felt it. She felt compelled to 138 00:10:31.240 --> 00:10:35.000 continue to put food out. As her mom moved out and her family moved 139 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:39.720 out, she inherited this house, but she felt compelled to still take food 140 00:10:39.759 --> 00:10:41.960 and put food in the back for these things because for some reason, she 141 00:10:43.159 --> 00:10:46.600 think she thought she had to feed them. But I'm getting way ahead of 142 00:10:46.679 --> 00:10:52.759 myself, guys. Sorry, let me get back to how that started. 143 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:56.120 The neighbors saw this commotion and the sheriff it showed up, and all this 144 00:10:56.159 --> 00:11:03.440 stuff had happened, and he had submitted the report to the BUFRORO and said, 145 00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:05.600 basically in his report, hey, we saw some weird stuff in our 146 00:11:05.600 --> 00:11:09.879 neighbor's house. They're not saying what it was, but my dad said he 147 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.240 saw this thing that looked like a bigfoot and it scared the hell out of 148 00:11:15.320 --> 00:11:20.960 them, and I wanted you guys to know. That was basically the short 149 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.799 of the report. And then one of our local investigators, I think his 150 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:30.080 name was Greg Clay, had gone out there to look at it, just 151 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:35.279 talk to the people. And then Stan Courtney also he was I think he 152 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:37.799 was several hours away. He decided to go out there and meet with them. 153 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:43.320 And when they started spending time there on the property, which didn't take 154 00:11:43.399 --> 00:11:48.120 long, I guess they actually witnessed one of these things off the side of 155 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:52.879 the road, big red glowing eyes out eight foot tall, you know, 156 00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:58.039 back in the trees, and they came away from that location and shot. 157 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:03.679 Because these guys were like, well, we really didn't expect, you know, 158 00:12:03.799 --> 00:12:05.720 any of this to happen. We just thought we were going to go 159 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:09.039 talk to some people and boom, all of a sudden, we find ourselves 160 00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:16.080 in this really active situation, and then they got Matt involved, and Matt 161 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.679 went out there and as you guys know, he took some recording equipment. 162 00:12:22.440 --> 00:12:26.600 But the husband of the woman who lived there had known by then two and 163 00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:31.879 he took the camcorder down and eventually got some footage. We didn't all get 164 00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:35.720 to see it for a while, but there was one walking down in the 165 00:12:35.799 --> 00:12:39.639 trees, down in the very thickly wooded area down below this pond, and 166 00:12:39.799 --> 00:12:43.519 we get about two or three seconds of this thing just kind of walking from 167 00:12:43.559 --> 00:12:46.639 the right to the left, and we can see it from the side view. 168 00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:50.799 A lot of that footage and stuff that we collected from that location was 169 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:56.200 taken by her, by the woman who had this ongoing relationship with these things, 170 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:03.080 and the husband of her also got a couple pieces, you know. 171 00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:09.519 But we collected some pieces of footage, like a piece of a couple pieces 172 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:15.159 of thermal imaging footage. This was early on. We were using some antiquated 173 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:20.440 old rathe on two fifty d's and had issues trying to feed you know, 174 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:28.399 recording units and getting good dependable feeds from the units to the recorders and older 175 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:33.120 technology when it comes to game cameras. Yeah, we did have game cameras 176 00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:37.879 out. We had you know, thermal imaging units again older stuff, but 177 00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:41.440 you know, this is back when that technology was very expensive still and not 178 00:13:41.759 --> 00:13:46.720 very reliable. And you know, some of the stuff we got was just 179 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:52.559 very short, you know, pieces that you couldn't really make much detail out 180 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:58.440 or get much information from unfortunately. But she was able to collect a few 181 00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:03.240 pieces of footage that I think some people have seen, like the sleeping footage 182 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:07.240 and one that they call them Matilda, the facial footage where it's sitting down 183 00:14:07.320 --> 00:14:11.639 in the trees. And but you know, for me, the entirety this 184 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:20.200 this project, I always was trying to always trying to gather more substantial evidence 185 00:14:20.679 --> 00:14:26.440 again stand something that stands on its own, not subjective, but something that 186 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.720 stands on its own, you know, longer, lengthy pieces of footage, 187 00:14:30.600 --> 00:14:37.759 more details and and anything that happened around there. I tried to encourage them 188 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:41.519 to constantly carry cameras and film, and that was difficult. It was hard 189 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:45.919 for us to get cooperation from them to do the things we wanted them to 190 00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:50.919 do. They were very adamant about a lot of things, you know, 191 00:14:52.080 --> 00:14:56.320 privacy and and uh doing things the way they wanted to do it, so 192 00:14:58.080 --> 00:15:01.879 we had a lot of a lot of issues and and resistance in many ways. 193 00:15:01.240 --> 00:15:05.679 But again, you know, we did get stuff. It's just I 194 00:15:05.759 --> 00:15:09.360 wish it was better. I wish that we could have accomplished more. But 195 00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.480 you know, I look back at what we did do and you know it 196 00:15:13.919 --> 00:15:20.639 is something. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bogo. 197 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:30.720 We'll be right back after these messages. Historically, I think you got the 198 00:15:30.879 --> 00:15:35.200 very very first thermal footage of a sasquatch. Ever am I Am I right 199 00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:39.919 about that? Or we we think we did. Yeah, we believe we 200 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:43.799 did. And you know what was interesting? Cliff touching on the subject, 201 00:15:43.879 --> 00:15:46.759 and I feel like I'm going all over the place. I don't talk about 202 00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:48.879 this too often, so forgive me. I'm not very polished when it comes 203 00:15:48.960 --> 00:15:54.320 to speaking about it. But you're a good company. Story about that? 204 00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.960 Oh right, Well, this thermal footage that we have, Gene, we 205 00:16:02.039 --> 00:16:03.720 well, I just don't want to take a lot of time, but basically 206 00:16:03.840 --> 00:16:08.639 we had we could not stand in the fields and hold cameras up and expect 207 00:16:08.679 --> 00:16:14.879 to get anything. Luckily, we were surrounded by a lot of thick Kentucky 208 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:21.000 woods, and these things would come from different directions and angles. So during 209 00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:23.440 our time when we were there trying to collect more video evidence, we would 210 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.240 go out in the fields in the evening and at night, sometimes during the 211 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:32.080 day, but mostly at night, of course, and we would try to 212 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:33.440 collect footage. And most of the time we didn't get anything. Guys. 213 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:37.440 I mean it was I spent countless hours, I mean hundreds, if not 214 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.519 several thousand hours sitting out in tree stands and you know, out in the 215 00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.639 dark in the fields and the rain and the snow and the wind, you 216 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.879 know, and most of the time I didn't see her get anything. But 217 00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.759 the few occasions that we did, you know, was just so exciting when 218 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.600 you knew that they were out there, they were you know, real close. 219 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.240 And in this one particular occasion, and now Leila was working with us 220 00:17:03.640 --> 00:17:10.400 then on their property and they had an old barn in the back, and 221 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:15.920 we had devised a plan to take some thermals or rape on two fifty ds 222 00:17:15.039 --> 00:17:21.759 out to this old barn and hide in the barn well before dark and you 223 00:17:21.839 --> 00:17:23.920 know, sneak in there and then try to hide and then stay back in 224 00:17:25.039 --> 00:17:27.400 there and hope that these things would come out. We'd ask the woman to 225 00:17:27.480 --> 00:17:30.359 bring some food out or whatever. She does come out and talk to them, 226 00:17:30.400 --> 00:17:33.839 and she can coax them out of the woods, so maybe we can 227 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.799 get a you know, a video or a shot of them. Well, 228 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:42.000 this particular night, I think she had gone out and she had done some 229 00:17:42.160 --> 00:17:45.920 talking and stuff for a while, and then she went back to the house, 230 00:17:45.119 --> 00:17:48.920 as she was apt to do quite a bit. She would go back 231 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:52.000 in the home and let us do our thing outside till midnight one two o'clock 232 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:56.839 in the morning. And we sat out there for hours in the back of 233 00:17:56.880 --> 00:17:59.920 the barn. And what we had done, guys, is we'd cut these 234 00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:03.200 little holes in the back of the barn. They let us cut these little 235 00:18:03.240 --> 00:18:07.240 holes in this old wood of the barn, right and and we had it 236 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:12.160 just large enough the lens of this thermal camera would fit into it, so 237 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:15.519 we could view out the back of the barn towards the tree lines in the 238 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:18.359 hollow where we you know, we knew that they were coming out by this 239 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:22.039 old pond and stuff, but where we knew they were coming out. And 240 00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:30.400 again, I was sitting there one night, and I'm trying to recall exactly 241 00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.720 what happened. But I've been there for quite a while and hadn't seen anything. 242 00:18:34.359 --> 00:18:37.200 And with this thermal imaging, you know, you could see a mouse 243 00:18:37.359 --> 00:18:41.119 running around out there, you know, one hundred yards away. You can 244 00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:42.519 see a little pinpoint dot, you know, running around with the thermal You 245 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:47.240 guys don't how the thermals work, not anything that you know, every everything 246 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:51.440 warm blooded, it's going to show up and you know, look like a 247 00:18:51.640 --> 00:18:56.039 spotlight out there in the dark with the thermal imager because of the you know, 248 00:18:56.119 --> 00:18:59.440 the way they work. Everyone that knows how a thermal imager works understands. 249 00:18:59.559 --> 00:19:02.680 You know that it's the heat that creates the image, you know, 250 00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:07.759 the radiation of the body heat. And so I'm watching this thing and nothing 251 00:19:07.839 --> 00:19:12.039 has been going on, and I'm literally falling asleep and getting ready to just 252 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:18.680 call it quitch. That night, I remember seeing this little faint glimmer or 253 00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.799 faint, faint little shine down near the tree line, and this thing is 254 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:26.039 dropping. The land drops down significantly right when it goes in the tree line. 255 00:19:26.119 --> 00:19:30.640 So this thing's walking up this like incline through this very thick trees and 256 00:19:30.799 --> 00:19:37.319 brush, and I see it kind of come up and it's back in behind 257 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:38.680 all the trees, so I can't get a pool image and don't know exactly 258 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.640 what it is, but I can see it's fairly large. And then as 259 00:19:41.640 --> 00:19:45.160 it got close to the edge of the trees, I realized it was one 260 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:48.359 of them. And I don't know which one, but it was it was. 261 00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:53.720 It was upright, it was bipedal, and it just was standing behind 262 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:59.000 all the thick foliage. Guys, it's it's pitch black, it's dark outside. 263 00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.920 There's not even a move right, and I'm in This thing is about 264 00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:06.000 one hundred yards away down in the trees, and I'm in the back of 265 00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:08.799 the barn. I thought I was pretty well hidden, and I hear a 266 00:20:08.920 --> 00:20:12.119 rock hit the back of the barn, right, So that had happened several 267 00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:17.640 times, so apparently they knew we were in the barn, but they would 268 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.720 they would literally throw rocks at the barn, and we would think we're pulling 269 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:23.200 something over, you know, pulling the wool over their eyes lowly, and 270 00:20:23.799 --> 00:20:27.480 they knew that we were there. I don't think we ever really surprised him, 271 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:32.400 but you know, we heard a rock hit the barn several times, 272 00:20:33.240 --> 00:20:37.480 and whatever this thing was back there in the trees. And so here's the 273 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:41.839 interesting thing. It was behavior is what really fascinated me, because when I 274 00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:45.559 reviewed that footage later, this went on for about three I want to say, 275 00:20:45.640 --> 00:20:48.720 three and a half four minutes. It was back behind these this very 276 00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:52.240 thick foliage, and it wouldn't come out of the foliage and stood behind this 277 00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:57.799 foliage and it kind of was looking towards us, towards the barn. And 278 00:20:57.880 --> 00:21:02.759 then eventually it turned and it leaves and it walks back down at an angle, 279 00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:06.039 kind of in the same direction it came from, and disappears back into 280 00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:11.119 the thick foliage. Well, what's fascinating again, was the way it behaved 281 00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:15.279 pitch Black. We're hiding in the barn. We think that it doesn't know 282 00:21:15.359 --> 00:21:18.359 where there, but I think it did. It never came out of the 283 00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:22.359 trees, but it's behavior back and behind that it was swaying. You could 284 00:21:22.400 --> 00:21:27.240 see it. Once it kind of locked in on the barn, it started 285 00:21:27.680 --> 00:21:33.119 rocking a little to the left and to the right. And I know we've 286 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:37.359 heard of other people describing him doing that, you know, kind of doing 287 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:41.160 that rocking motion. You know, you guys have heard people describe that behavior 288 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:45.960 from time to time right. Oh yeah, yeah, it was doing that. 289 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:49.279 But I couldn't tell if it was just that it was trying to look 290 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:52.400 around the foliage towards the barn or not, because you could see it lean 291 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:56.799 out a little further and then go back in and kind of go to the 292 00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.480 left and then back to the right, swinging a little further out to the 293 00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:02.960 right. Odds the second or two and look and then go back behind. 294 00:22:03.480 --> 00:22:06.799 And it did that, and it never stopped really moving. It just kind 295 00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.759 of, you know, kind of rock and swayed subtly and sometimes a little 296 00:22:10.759 --> 00:22:15.000 bit more aggressively, but it just sat back there the entirety of this time, 297 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.799 kind of looking towards that direction, and then suddenly, without warning, 298 00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.559 it just turns and it's gone. It's just walking down the hill and leaving 299 00:22:22.559 --> 00:22:26.720 again back into the trees. So here's the behavior that really, you know, 300 00:22:26.039 --> 00:22:30.279 I guess I should have known this, but it was fascinating in that 301 00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:34.319 it's pitch black. We can't see nothing with their eyes as with human eyes. 302 00:22:34.400 --> 00:22:37.880 Right without this camera, I had never known that it was there. 303 00:22:38.799 --> 00:22:45.359 But it still acted so cautiously and so carefully that it wouldn't even come out 304 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:49.880 behind thick foliage in this pitch black, thinking that we might have been around 305 00:22:49.960 --> 00:22:56.799 there was It was fascinating to me because that tells you that we really, 306 00:22:56.759 --> 00:23:03.519 you know, we just don't understand these creatures. They're they're just they're just 307 00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:11.720 incredibly stealthy and very very careful on you know, trying to show themselves or 308 00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:15.200 or you know, allowing us to see them. But it was fascinating. 309 00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:19.400 That was just a little behavioral thing that I just found extremely fascinating. You 310 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:22.079 know, how did it know that I couldn't see in the dark? You 311 00:23:22.119 --> 00:23:25.200 know, how do they know that? They must know that, right, 312 00:23:25.319 --> 00:23:29.599 but at the same time, they're still so cautious and careful not to come 313 00:23:29.640 --> 00:23:32.480 out from behind that bush. If it had come out from behind that bush, 314 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.200 I still wouldn't have been able to see it. It was too too 315 00:23:34.319 --> 00:23:38.519 dark, you know, without the aid of that that thermal cam. So 316 00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:44.880 anyways, I just found that fascinating. Yeah, and I've often thought about 317 00:23:44.920 --> 00:23:48.960 that because now we have several pieces of footages of these things and they're always 318 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.960 hiden even in the dark, and like a long time ago, I kind 319 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:55.480 of thought to myself that back when we didn't have a lot of footage, 320 00:23:55.519 --> 00:23:59.079 I might have even spoken to you about this one point, Dennis, that 321 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:02.559 I definitely they're hiding from us in the dark, and the reason for that 322 00:24:02.880 --> 00:24:06.880 is probably something like I always think about, you know, my own experience, 323 00:24:06.960 --> 00:24:08.200 and you know, sasquatches are smart, don't get me wrong, but 324 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.160 they're not you know, doing math or you know, using fire and stuff 325 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:14.960 like that. They're not. They're not doing that kind of stuff with their 326 00:24:15.039 --> 00:24:18.680 intelligence. They're applying at else how, you know. So when I think 327 00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:22.119 back to my experience and I remember once and tying this back into what we're 328 00:24:22.160 --> 00:24:23.880 talking about here, when I was young, like maybe about I don't know, 329 00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:30.839 ten nine seven somewhere in there, and I learned that dogs seeing black 330 00:24:30.920 --> 00:24:33.960 and white, you know, instead of color. You know, they don't 331 00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:37.640 have color vision like we have. I couldn't wrap my head around that. 332 00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:41.920 It's just what it was outside of my own experience, and therefore I had 333 00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.319 hard time conceptualizing that. Like I didn't even know how you would know, 334 00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:48.960 because I didn't know about rods and cones and those sort of you know, 335 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.720 eye cells at that time. But I couldn't really wrap my head around it. 336 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:55.119 I kind of think that that's where they're coming from is that like, 337 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:56.720 well, yeah, they can see in the dark just fine. And here 338 00:24:56.799 --> 00:25:00.680 are here, we are running around kind of like them. They must look 339 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:03.160 at us and realize and just like we look at them and say, wow, 340 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:07.319 that's a lot like me. That's weird. And so I think that 341 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:10.400 they kind of give us credit. Where does not do that? They think 342 00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:12.920 we have night vision just like they do. Therefore they just treat us like 343 00:25:14.039 --> 00:25:18.319 them. Yeah, yeah, that's that's true. I could definitely see that. 344 00:25:18.440 --> 00:25:22.480 I mean, it's I almost thought it was just very odd that they 345 00:25:22.519 --> 00:25:25.880 would that, even with all the advantage they have, you know, with 346 00:25:26.440 --> 00:25:30.400 their stealthiness and how they can move through that thick stuff. They move through 347 00:25:30.440 --> 00:25:34.720 that stuff like a mouse. Okay, so here you got this large bipedal 348 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.880 creature and at things moving through this thick, dense foliage and it's hardly making 349 00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.119 any sound at all. I mean, this is some other experiences we've had 350 00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:48.680 in the past. So that combined with its behavior that night, you know, 351 00:25:49.119 --> 00:25:53.200 I couldn't I probably would never have heard it approach. I definitely couldn't 352 00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:59.720 see it in the dark. Yet it was so extremely cautious about even you 353 00:25:59.799 --> 00:26:03.079 know, showing itself or making itself vulnerable by you know, coming out into 354 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:07.400 the open the way just I don't know, I mean, I know we 355 00:26:07.440 --> 00:26:10.839 all knew that they're that way to some extent, but to actually see that 356 00:26:10.960 --> 00:26:15.160 behavior was fascinating for me. So yeah, yeah, we all have we 357 00:26:15.240 --> 00:26:18.359 all have models what we think sasquatches are. But when you're like, I 358 00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:22.839 had that experience recently and that one wasn't around me, but I got the 359 00:26:22.920 --> 00:26:26.799 track one for a little while. I pulled some casts and stuff like that. 360 00:26:26.000 --> 00:26:29.559 Just is about a month and a half two months ago, and the 361 00:26:29.720 --> 00:26:33.160 stuff the thing was going through just but like the fact that let alone, 362 00:26:34.279 --> 00:26:37.720 I mean, the witness was there, he heard it moving around and stuff 363 00:26:37.759 --> 00:26:40.359 through there. You know, but when I saw where this thing walked and 364 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:44.559 I listened to the witness who heard it go, and uh, and the 365 00:26:44.799 --> 00:26:48.920 speed with which it went through this stuff relatively quietly, like you were saying, 366 00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:52.880 and this one, this wasn't trying to sneak around. It's phenomenal to 367 00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:59.440 see where these things choose to walk and the stealth and quietness with which they 368 00:26:59.559 --> 00:27:03.720 walk there. It's staggering. It's it's actually kind of scary in some ways. 369 00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:08.880 Yeah, you you you begin to really see how they live, the 370 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:12.240 way they do, how they get, how that we we know so a 371 00:27:12.279 --> 00:27:17.160 little about them because as you said earlier, Cliff, I think we're trying 372 00:27:17.240 --> 00:27:23.559 to relate our own experiences, in our own our own abilities to these because 373 00:27:23.559 --> 00:27:26.720 they're upright, they're bipeal. We think that they're you going to have a 374 00:27:26.759 --> 00:27:33.839 lot of the same mannerisms and abilities we do, but they go so far 375 00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:40.119 above and beyond even even our best sensibilities, you know, our our ability 376 00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:45.039 to hear and see and even as you said, just leaving sign behind if 377 00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:51.039 they don't want to leave sign. They're just masters at you know, evasion 378 00:27:51.240 --> 00:27:56.240 and stealth and it's just extraordinary. So that's why, you know, you 379 00:27:56.440 --> 00:28:00.759 start to think when you find a print, which we did find a few, 380 00:28:00.920 --> 00:28:03.960 Now we didn't find that many, but you know, one of the 381 00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.119 ones that really struck or you know, stood out to me was an experience 382 00:28:07.240 --> 00:28:14.559 that we had towards the end of the project where it was January. We 383 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:19.480 had a fresh snowfall a couple of three inches, and the woman had gone 384 00:28:19.519 --> 00:28:25.039 out and put food out at the edge of this tree line near there was 385 00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.240 a lot of tobacco fills out there, so you have these big, wide 386 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:29.759 open areas. I want to describe that, so you kind of have in 387 00:28:29.839 --> 00:28:33.759 your minds I understand what I'm talking about. But you got these large open 388 00:28:33.839 --> 00:28:36.559 areas, open fields, and then like like I said, a lot of 389 00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:40.200 them are they're growing tobacco and stuff on. So uh, in the winter, 390 00:28:40.319 --> 00:28:45.279 these things are just pretty well barren, right, and then it's surrounded 391 00:28:45.319 --> 00:28:48.519 by all these thick, heavy tree lines and all four sides. And she 392 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:52.440 would walk out to the edge of one of these and then go right at 393 00:28:52.440 --> 00:28:55.960 the into the tree line and talk or does what. You know, she 394 00:28:56.200 --> 00:28:59.920 had some things she would do to see if they're around. They weren't always 395 00:29:00.119 --> 00:29:03.119 around, guys, they were not like always there. They would come and 396 00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:06.680 they would go, and you know, a couple three or four days, 397 00:29:06.920 --> 00:29:10.279 she wouldn't hear anything from them. Sometimes two weeks she wouldn't hear anything from 398 00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:14.559 them. And then suddenly they would just be there and she would know they're 399 00:29:14.559 --> 00:29:18.240 around because she'd go outside to feed the dogs or do something outside and she'd 400 00:29:18.319 --> 00:29:22.839 hear a snap from the trees, a deliberate crack from a branch or you 401 00:29:22.920 --> 00:29:29.799 know, a sound. These things made a very distinctive sound. Out there 402 00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:33.599 that it is like a grunting sound. I've recorded it several times. I 403 00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:37.240 can produce it very well because I've heard it so many times. But it's 404 00:29:37.319 --> 00:29:42.640 basically just a very guttural like that, just sound, just like that. 405 00:29:45.839 --> 00:29:48.480 You would just hear it come from the trees, and so she would know 406 00:29:48.519 --> 00:29:52.119 they're around. So then she would go out later and take you know, 407 00:29:52.599 --> 00:29:56.319 her pancakes or or you know, whatever food that she had. Sometimes she'd 408 00:29:56.359 --> 00:30:00.039 just give them leftovers from dinner, but she would put them out there and 409 00:30:00.119 --> 00:30:03.039 hope they would take it. Now, she would put food down, guys. 410 00:30:03.119 --> 00:30:06.400 But then again, even if we felt felt they were there, they 411 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:08.480 wouldn't always take it. It wasn't one of those things that, oh yeah, 412 00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:11.759 you could put food down, just stand there and wait from the ticket 413 00:30:11.799 --> 00:30:15.880 and you've got something right. They were always ahead of us by I don't 414 00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:18.920 know, ten steps. And when we thought we could trick them and full 415 00:30:18.000 --> 00:30:22.440 them and see them and do we tried every angle we could think of. 416 00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.160 They were just so unpredictable. They wouldn't come into the same spot all the 417 00:30:26.279 --> 00:30:33.559 time. They would approach areas from different directions all the time, never from 418 00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:38.119 the same direction twice never at the same times, they didn't take the food 419 00:30:38.319 --> 00:30:41.079 she'd put out. Half the time, I'm gonna tell you that right now, 420 00:30:41.799 --> 00:30:45.480 you know, sixty seventy percent of the time she probably the food would 421 00:30:45.480 --> 00:30:49.200 get eaten by a cat or you know, a stray dog or raccoons. 422 00:30:51.079 --> 00:30:53.880 And we know that, you know, but you know there was a few 423 00:30:53.960 --> 00:31:00.039 times that they did stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. 424 00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:11.480 We'll be right back after these messages. But it is particular night she 425 00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:15.480 had put food out and it had just known and I was there, and 426 00:31:17.279 --> 00:31:18.960 she said that she thought she'd heard one of them. So we had went 427 00:31:19.079 --> 00:31:22.039 back to the house, and we were at the house for a good forty 428 00:31:22.079 --> 00:31:26.440 five minutes to an hour, and I went back out with her husband to 429 00:31:26.680 --> 00:31:30.200 the to the area that she had put the food in the edge of this 430 00:31:30.319 --> 00:31:37.039 field. And Cliff and Bobo, I know both you guys have found tracks 431 00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:41.279 in all your time doing this, but here's what I came across, guys. 432 00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:47.319 I came across the trackway that came out of the tree line and it 433 00:31:47.440 --> 00:31:51.960 went a big arc and a big semi circle in arc maybe one hundred and 434 00:31:52.039 --> 00:31:56.960 fifty to one hundred and seventy flip prints in total. They came out of 435 00:31:57.039 --> 00:32:00.799 the tree, went in an arc, and then went back towards where she 436 00:32:00.920 --> 00:32:04.279 put the plate and went back into the trees again. And it was only 437 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:10.119 minutes old in the snow, and I was elated. I was like, 438 00:32:10.240 --> 00:32:15.759 I cannot believe what we just found. And I was so excited. And 439 00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:16.720 I told them both, I said, I need to get out there. 440 00:32:16.799 --> 00:32:22.200 I called Leli. I said, bring your your snow casting material, because 441 00:32:22.240 --> 00:32:25.480 we had stuff there for that. We hadn't really got to use it at 442 00:32:25.519 --> 00:32:30.480 the time, but we had, uh we had spray wax, the forensic 443 00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:37.400 spray wax, you know, for sitting snow prints. And uh we went 444 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:44.359 back out there with with that and some hydro cowl and I started to cast 445 00:32:44.559 --> 00:32:47.000 three of the track, to cast the left and a right and a left 446 00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.200 and I was expecting to walk that that whole you know, track line, 447 00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.160 and try to find some better princes because the snow it was pretty coold. 448 00:32:55.160 --> 00:33:00.599 It's fourteen degrees I believe at the time, so the snow was fresh and 449 00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:02.200 it was a little powdery. It was difficult, you know, to get 450 00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:06.440 a good impression. But they were still, you know, the tracks still 451 00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:08.799 maintained pretty well. The shape of the track, you know, stayed in 452 00:33:08.880 --> 00:33:13.559 there pretty well. So we sprayed several layers of the wax in there and 453 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:16.880 got it set up, and eventually I cast it, and two of the 454 00:33:17.000 --> 00:33:20.839 three kind of blew out one side or the other, but still got most 455 00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:22.440 of it, and one of them turned out really, really pretty good, 456 00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.839 and that's one I need to send you, still, Cliff. But it 457 00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:31.799 was a seventeen and a half inch footprint, showed all the toes and it 458 00:33:31.960 --> 00:33:36.359 even had the impression of one of the oak leafs on the on the field 459 00:33:36.599 --> 00:33:39.519 was still at the bottom of that that trapper and pressed down into it. 460 00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:46.599 And what happened is I was planning to stay out there that whole night and 461 00:33:46.799 --> 00:33:52.079 cast a bunch of tracks, and they flipped out, and they didn't like 462 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:55.519 me doing it because she felt like because I was out there casting tracks that 463 00:33:55.599 --> 00:34:00.759 I was going to scare them away and they would freak out. And long 464 00:34:00.839 --> 00:34:04.839 story short, as it turned into a huge blow up in a fight with 465 00:34:04.960 --> 00:34:07.880 the people because I was trying to press them to allow me to cast and 466 00:34:08.000 --> 00:34:12.920 document all these tracks and they just didn't want me messing around with the tracks, 467 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.519 but I was able to get three of them out of there, and 468 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:19.840 again to this day, it was one of those most disappointed. It was 469 00:34:19.920 --> 00:34:22.519 bittersweet because I had this whole trackway and I could have photographed it, but 470 00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.360 it was the middle of the night. I did take some video of it, 471 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.159 but it's not very good quality because it's night and that you know that 472 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:34.639 the cameras are, you know your video quality, the grades in the dark 473 00:34:34.719 --> 00:34:38.880 and when you're using a little spotlight. It just just one of those bittersweet 474 00:34:38.960 --> 00:34:45.760 moments where I just had to walk away from it because it was very difficult 475 00:34:45.400 --> 00:34:51.760 to do many of the things that we felt like we needed to do. 476 00:34:52.519 --> 00:34:54.840 Leela ran into that quite a bit with them, and I know, I 477 00:34:54.880 --> 00:34:59.440 think you've talked to Leila several times, right, Bobo. I was in 478 00:34:59.519 --> 00:35:01.639 contact with that whole time. I almost got to go out there and be 479 00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.280 a roommate Adrian. When they first was going out there, I talked to 480 00:35:05.360 --> 00:35:07.800 him a couple of times on the phone about because I was wide up and 481 00:35:07.920 --> 00:35:08.519 like, man, I'm just gonna worry on a fishy, but I can 482 00:35:08.719 --> 00:35:12.519 jump off. At the time, I was like, because Lela didn't want 483 00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:15.039 to trespass. She didn't want to go down to those hallers by herself. 484 00:35:15.159 --> 00:35:17.599 She was trying to she's lobby. I'm like, dude, I will do 485 00:35:17.679 --> 00:35:22.000 whatever it takes. I will cross property lines, I'll climb down them hallers, 486 00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.639 I'll track them back to where they're sleeping. And agent almost did it, 487 00:35:24.679 --> 00:35:29.800 and then he decided not to at the last minute. For our listeners 488 00:35:29.800 --> 00:35:32.079 who may not know, we haven't really told them who Leelah is, and 489 00:35:32.280 --> 00:35:36.199 I think a lot of people are probably hearing these stories for the first time. 490 00:35:37.079 --> 00:35:42.119 Leila she she's a Princeton graduate. She has a PhD. Is it 491 00:35:42.199 --> 00:35:45.159 a wildlife biology or something like that. She I think she's still living back 492 00:35:45.159 --> 00:35:50.079 easton Pennsylvania or something at this point. But yeah, she They had a 493 00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:55.920 bona fide, legitimate, hardcore PhD living on the property for years documenting whatever 494 00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:00.599 came up, and I imagine some of that is some of the most thorough, 495 00:36:00.239 --> 00:36:05.719 most scientific documentation that's ever been obtained. She lived on the on the 496 00:36:05.840 --> 00:36:12.079 location for nearly five years of that project. Unfortunately, there was some ah 497 00:36:12.119 --> 00:36:19.400 reconcilable differences between her and the couple that made it very difficult for her. 498 00:36:20.119 --> 00:36:27.079 You know, eventually too to do her research properly. So she kind of 499 00:36:27.760 --> 00:36:31.679 spent the last few years there just you know, analyzing any evidence we got 500 00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:37.360 and processing stuff. Particularly at the end, she was very helpful with the 501 00:36:37.480 --> 00:36:42.920 DNA when we were able to obtain we got some hair samples from there, 502 00:36:43.480 --> 00:36:46.599 guys. You know, we got you know, the unknown primate hair samples. 503 00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:53.480 We got a number of saliva samples off the plates that we sent in 504 00:36:53.639 --> 00:36:59.480 for testing. DNA testing. A lot of it started out through the DNA 505 00:36:59.719 --> 00:37:04.119 I think was Paleo Labs Paleo DNA out of Thunderbey, Ontario. We were 506 00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:09.320 sending them up there for a few years and uh, one of the one 507 00:37:09.320 --> 00:37:13.760 of the scientists as working with up there, one of the analysts up there, 508 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.400 I guess would be his title. He uh he basically told me, 509 00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:22.960 he says, you know what, what these samples keep coming back as is 510 00:37:24.039 --> 00:37:30.719 uh human contamination. And we knew at that point, you know, Leland 511 00:37:30.760 --> 00:37:35.119 knew how to handle the materials we were working with, and I did too. 512 00:37:35.159 --> 00:37:37.800 We we knew what we were doing there. We weren't you know, 513 00:37:37.920 --> 00:37:44.400 we were very careful about contaminating, uh, you know, the the plates 514 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.599 that we were presenting to these things with the food on it, so we 515 00:37:46.679 --> 00:37:51.239 were what we were trying to do is get the saliva samples from the place 516 00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:52.599 that she would put out. This woman would put out and we would we 517 00:37:52.639 --> 00:37:59.320 would methodically handle them to minimize human contact, rubber gloves, try not to 518 00:38:00.119 --> 00:38:05.000 know, you know, get any you know, put a place underneath you 519 00:38:05.159 --> 00:38:08.719 so you don't get cells falling onto it or any other way to contaminate these 520 00:38:09.199 --> 00:38:13.719 samples. So when we got these plates back and we felt that they were 521 00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:17.280 you know, the food was taken by the sasquatch there, that we could 522 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:22.960 take that sample and send it into these labs and see, if you know, 523 00:38:22.039 --> 00:38:24.880 we can have a DNA analysis done on them and see what they come 524 00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:29.000 back as. Wouldn't they eat them with when they had syrup on they eat 525 00:38:29.000 --> 00:38:31.719 the whole paper plate? Right, No, No, they didn't eat the 526 00:38:31.800 --> 00:38:35.960 plate. What they do, Bobo is they would lick the plate clean. 527 00:38:36.159 --> 00:38:40.239 So she would put she would put syrup on those plates with pancakes. But 528 00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:45.599 it wasn't all with pancakes. She would put other food on there. Sometimes 529 00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.760 it would be dinner scraps with bravy. But they would literally lick the plates 530 00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:53.840 clean, and you know, leaving saliva, which we felt like they had 531 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:59.079 to lift saliva on those plates because they literally licked clean. And it's at 532 00:38:59.159 --> 00:39:05.159 one point she was placing peanut butter on bread, on sliced bread, white 533 00:39:05.239 --> 00:39:08.360 bread, put peanut butter on there, and then put you know, or 534 00:39:08.639 --> 00:39:13.679 syrup on it, and that peanut butter when it puts, when it sticks 535 00:39:13.679 --> 00:39:15.760 to the plate, it's like glue, you know how peanut butter is. 536 00:39:16.440 --> 00:39:21.320 It would stick like glue to the plate. And they would literally let that 537 00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.079 peanut butter clean off the plate when they did take it, when it wasn't 538 00:39:24.159 --> 00:39:28.719 some other animal. When they took it, we knew we were very confident. 539 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:32.079 We weren't one hundred percent sure, but we're confident that they actually took 540 00:39:32.119 --> 00:39:37.159 the food off that plate. Take that plate and Lelo would process it and 541 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:43.639 we would we would send it up to this DNA diagnostic or not DNA diagnostic, 542 00:39:44.239 --> 00:39:47.320 Paleo DNA Labs in Thunderby, Ontario, And we worked with this guy 543 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:52.599 for several years and we had sent him I don't know, ten fifteen samples 544 00:39:52.400 --> 00:39:54.639 and eventually the guy he told me on the phone, he says, you 545 00:39:54.679 --> 00:39:58.840 know a Dennis. He says, I think what's happening here is we would 546 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:01.239 do now what's it called. It's been a number of years. I forgot 547 00:40:01.960 --> 00:40:08.000 what's it called. When they do the uh, the initialing on a on 548 00:40:08.119 --> 00:40:12.079 a sample to determine if it's a cat or a dog, or a human 549 00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:16.480 or a bear. Is a preliminary, yeah, just to determine species, 550 00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:21.480 right, just to roll in or roll out other things. They would do 551 00:40:21.599 --> 00:40:25.719 a base base pair or something like that worked up and I'm sorry, guys, 552 00:40:25.719 --> 00:40:29.480 I can't remember the name. It's been a while, but they would 553 00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:34.519 they would do that initial DNA test to check and see what if it, 554 00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:38.880 you know, if it's something explainable, you know that that you know, 555 00:40:39.159 --> 00:40:45.480 left their DNA on that plate, and in some cases it did come back 556 00:40:45.719 --> 00:40:50.719 as you know, a cat or astray. But there was a few of 557 00:40:50.760 --> 00:40:53.199 them, I want to say there was between ten and fifteen of them that 558 00:40:53.840 --> 00:41:00.840 what we come back with was was a human and it came back as human 559 00:41:01.639 --> 00:41:06.360 DNA. And so we said to ourself, well, you know, we've 560 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.880 been doing this long enough, we're very confident that we're not contaminating these samples. 561 00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:15.599 But then at that time, I've been talking to several other people who 562 00:41:15.679 --> 00:41:22.000 said that they were doing also sending in, you know, hair samples with 563 00:41:22.199 --> 00:41:24.480 the with the skin tags at the at the at the bottom of at the 564 00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:28.760 cluster of the hair, at the base of the hair that will yield DNA, 565 00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:32.119 and they were having the same problems with with their samples. Is that 566 00:41:32.519 --> 00:41:37.159 they were all being told that they're being there, they're being contaminated, and 567 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:42.719 that that was explaining And I think even were you guys aware of that incident 568 00:41:43.039 --> 00:41:47.599 that Owen Caddy had up in Washington State I believe, or it might have 569 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.840 been Oregon, Glipp are you aware of that one. No, I haven't 570 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.639 heard much from Owen Caddie since probably two thousand and five or something like that. 571 00:41:57.519 --> 00:42:00.880 No, yeah, okay, So I spoke with Owen on the phone, 572 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:04.960 and I probably shouldn't be saying this other than I can tell you that 573 00:42:05.119 --> 00:42:08.800 Owen was on a location that he was very confident. He was with a 574 00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:15.239 researcher working with a family out in the woods. I believe it was Oregon, 575 00:42:15.320 --> 00:42:20.079 I want to say northern Oregon. But long story short is that this 576 00:42:20.239 --> 00:42:24.960 family was having continuing visitations. They had seen these things on their back porch. 577 00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:29.519 They heard him walking back and forth on this covered porch in the back 578 00:42:29.559 --> 00:42:31.599 of their home, and their house was right up against the woods, and 579 00:42:31.679 --> 00:42:37.800 they found trackways, and they'd seen these things, you know. They were 580 00:42:37.840 --> 00:42:39.880 getting into a freezer in the back of the house. There was a freezer, 581 00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:43.679 a chest freezer or something back there that he could put you know, 582 00:42:44.199 --> 00:42:47.519 his game in, and that stuff was disappearing. And they actually would hear 583 00:42:47.639 --> 00:42:52.480 him get in there and open the lid and they would take this frozen meat 584 00:42:52.519 --> 00:42:55.719 out of there. And then if I remember correctly, what Owen told me 585 00:42:55.880 --> 00:43:02.880 is that they had a incident happened one night where he went out investigated himself 586 00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:07.519 with the investigator and this said, I all just tap and it was still 587 00:43:07.599 --> 00:43:10.360 fresh. He said that this thing had come in on the backpaty or back 588 00:43:10.519 --> 00:43:15.760 porch, had hit its head on a light bulb, apparently cut its head 589 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:20.639 or something that left blood on the porch that he ow and collected the sample 590 00:43:20.679 --> 00:43:22.679 of that blood. And he said he knew it was one of them because 591 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:27.320 he could see the trackway coming out of the trees and over this juniper bush 592 00:43:27.440 --> 00:43:30.000 or some ground hugging bush and had stepped right over the top of this you 593 00:43:30.039 --> 00:43:34.159 know, long strides and these big footprints in the snow, and it went 594 00:43:34.280 --> 00:43:37.559 right back. It went up to the porch and went back out. And 595 00:43:37.719 --> 00:43:38.960 so Owen told me, he says, Dennis, I said, I was 596 00:43:39.159 --> 00:43:44.320 sure I had it, and he had sent his sample in and did the 597 00:43:44.400 --> 00:43:47.440 base work up on that of the you know, identification, and it came 598 00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:51.960 back as human. And Owen said, after that he threw in the towel. 599 00:43:51.960 --> 00:43:53.000 He said I was done. I just he says, I was confident 600 00:43:53.159 --> 00:43:58.480 I had it, and they were telling me it was contaminated. So you 601 00:43:58.559 --> 00:44:01.039 know, at that point we're thinking, well, you know, maybe there's 602 00:44:01.079 --> 00:44:07.119 something more to this. And MI talks with this Paleo DNA lab up and 603 00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:12.639 British up in Ontario, Canada. The guy, you know, was well 604 00:44:12.880 --> 00:44:15.119 aware of what we were doing. He knew what Adrian was doing. And 605 00:44:15.199 --> 00:44:19.119 Adrian was paying pretty samples and they were costing us several thousand dollars every time 606 00:44:19.199 --> 00:44:22.480 we sent one up to have it tested, and we were just not getting 607 00:44:22.519 --> 00:44:24.320 results. And eventually this guy says, well, maybe you need to have 608 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:29.320 a complete genome made up on that. Maybe next time you get a good 609 00:44:29.320 --> 00:44:30.559 sample, just have a complete work up. And I said, well that's 610 00:44:30.559 --> 00:44:32.880 something you could do, He said, well, I could, but the 611 00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:38.400 problem is that the consumables and a lab would cost so much money in this 612 00:44:38.599 --> 00:44:43.119 time, he says, you're literally talking, you know, one hundred thousand 613 00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:45.639 dollars or more, and a lot of time to do this. So it 614 00:44:45.719 --> 00:44:52.199 seemed like an insurmountable problem, you know, for us to to have you 615 00:44:52.280 --> 00:44:55.880 know, this, this this type of test done. But we knew that 616 00:44:57.000 --> 00:45:00.639 at some point there's got to be something more to this, because it can't 617 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:05.280 be that every one of those samples has been contaminated by people. It just 618 00:45:05.400 --> 00:45:08.480 can't be. I mean, there's just people from different areas that were confident 619 00:45:08.559 --> 00:45:13.239 that there you know, we we had moved far enough along that we knew, 620 00:45:13.400 --> 00:45:16.159 you know, a lot of these researchers had known how to handle that 621 00:45:16.639 --> 00:45:22.119 had to handle those samples properly without contaminating or at least minimizing it, so 622 00:45:22.239 --> 00:45:25.199 they couldn't all just be coming back as contaminated by humans. So there has 623 00:45:25.280 --> 00:45:29.599 to be more to it. And you know, to this day, I 624 00:45:29.599 --> 00:45:36.719 guess you guys already know you know what Melboa's you know what her results have 625 00:45:36.880 --> 00:45:40.599 come out to be. Now at that point, I guy, I don't 626 00:45:40.639 --> 00:45:44.039 know. All I can tell you is that I know that the sample we 627 00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:49.519 collected and the samples that we collected there on the project, including the last 628 00:45:49.559 --> 00:45:53.199 one which was a blood sample, I know that it wasn't contaminated and Leela 629 00:45:53.360 --> 00:46:00.599 handled that very well. And I can't tell you to the state you know 630 00:46:00.760 --> 00:46:06.960 what what we're dealing with there. But you know, once once we submitted 631 00:46:07.000 --> 00:46:12.599 that blood sample too to VELP, it was out of my hands, and 632 00:46:14.000 --> 00:46:17.440 you know, I uh, I don't know, you know again to this 633 00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:22.440 day, what what uh what truly could come out of that or if anything 634 00:46:22.559 --> 00:46:27.119 useful will ever come out of that? You know, Yeah, I'm that's 635 00:46:27.119 --> 00:46:29.840 sure. I I you know, I'm on record is basically saying I don't 636 00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:32.199 think that was handled appropriately or well. I think so. I think that 637 00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:37.119 science, if you want to call it, that is rather questionable and should 638 00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:38.920 be double checked and double checked and double checked at you know, forever, 639 00:46:39.400 --> 00:46:43.679 always always, always more and more and more and to see what other results 640 00:46:43.719 --> 00:46:46.199 from other people and other labs, et cetera. But I understand there's some 641 00:46:46.280 --> 00:46:51.039 proprietary technology being claimed and all that, which is always a red flag. 642 00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:52.599 I think that if you know one person has the key to the door and 643 00:46:52.679 --> 00:46:55.679 that's it forever. Then what good is that? Man? That's not science 644 00:46:55.760 --> 00:47:00.119 that because science is about reproducing these results and the technology like that should be 645 00:47:00.199 --> 00:47:02.719 shared to see what else might come out of it. But you know, 646 00:47:05.000 --> 00:47:07.519 when you were telling these stories, I was thinking, you know, I 647 00:47:07.559 --> 00:47:10.239 haven't had any cool DNA stuff, unfortunately in my big footing career. But 648 00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:13.400 I've been pretty close, you know, because I work with the guys from 649 00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:17.000 the Olympic Project a lot. And when those nests came out a few years 650 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:20.000 ago, it came out like there were a product. But you know, 651 00:47:20.239 --> 00:47:22.840 but like when the nests kind of hit the news in the Bigfoot news wire, 652 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:27.239 I suppose a few years ago, it was really promising. And I 653 00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:30.840 know Meldrum went out there and took core samples of several of the nests and 654 00:47:30.440 --> 00:47:35.039 had some ed and a work done on them. And they also got human 655 00:47:35.119 --> 00:47:37.320 contamination in these, which is possible, of course, after all, humans 656 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:40.519 did, in fact, you know, collect the samples, but they were 657 00:47:40.559 --> 00:47:45.079 careful to choose nests that humans had not laid down in yet and all this 658 00:47:45.159 --> 00:47:49.519 other stuff. And I was talking to doctor Meldrum about this and kind of 659 00:47:49.559 --> 00:47:52.679 bounced just bouncing ideas around with them, you know, And and if these 660 00:47:52.800 --> 00:47:55.599 things are what I think they are, and you know, I think they're 661 00:47:55.599 --> 00:48:00.199 paranthropists. I think they were a robust soustralopithescene essentially. I've kind of gone 662 00:48:00.199 --> 00:48:06.079 away from the giganto thing a bit. But although that's possible and on the 663 00:48:06.119 --> 00:48:08.559 table as well, But I think they're astralopithescenes, which is a direct human 664 00:48:08.679 --> 00:48:14.519 ancestor. It's a hominin. Some of the more recent ones when extinct as 665 00:48:14.559 --> 00:48:16.559 recently is you know, eight hundred thousand years ago, which is pretty recent. 666 00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:20.719 So and especially the way you're describing it, I don't know exactly. 667 00:48:21.000 --> 00:48:22.360 I don't know about DNA technology because you know, once you go on that 668 00:48:22.400 --> 00:48:24.079 path, that's all you're doing the rest of your life. There's just so 669 00:48:24.199 --> 00:48:30.440 much they know and learn. If they're doing these preliminary studies, it makes 670 00:48:30.519 --> 00:48:32.800 me kind of feel like, perhaps you know, they were still focusing in 671 00:48:32.960 --> 00:48:36.679 on the picture, so to speak. You know, you don't have to 672 00:48:36.719 --> 00:48:38.599 have a photo, you don't have to have a focused picture of Bobo to 673 00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:45.360 know it's Bobo. And if these things we broke off from them, perhaps 674 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:47.719 you know less than a million years ago or who knows, you know, 675 00:48:49.159 --> 00:48:52.920 certainly less than two million years ago. Maybe I don't know. I'd have 676 00:48:52.000 --> 00:48:57.639 to wonder if our DNA is actually all that different, because we share ninety 677 00:48:57.760 --> 00:49:04.360 eight point what three percent four of our DNA is absolutely identical to the bonobo, 678 00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:07.639 the pigmy chimpanzee, and we split off from them six or eight million 679 00:49:07.760 --> 00:49:10.760 years ago. And you know, so if you're talking about a factor of 680 00:49:12.079 --> 00:49:17.320 three to five difference, their DNA might be astonishingly similar to us. But 681 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.280 then again, like I say, to put in perspective, we sixty percent, 682 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.280 a full sixty percent of our DNA is identical to an earthworm, you 683 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.639 know, so uh yeah, you know, those little percentage points you know, 684 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.440 mean a whole lot of difference. You know, because I can picture 685 00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:38.239 I can picture the you know, some people out there are going, dude, 686 00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:40.280 you're calling me an ape because I'm a human. Well, yeah, 687 00:49:40.320 --> 00:49:44.119 you're an ape because you're a human, honestly. But and there's another side 688 00:49:44.119 --> 00:49:49.280 of the thing, where like you're calling bigfoots or yeah, I don't know, 689 00:49:49.320 --> 00:49:51.679 there's both sides of that coin. I suppose, you know, people 690 00:49:51.719 --> 00:49:53.159 they are mad that I call humans apes, And then people get mad that 691 00:49:53.199 --> 00:49:59.159 I call sasquatches humans or vice versa. So yeah, no, I'm totally, 692 00:49:59.559 --> 00:50:01.719 yeah, totally with you there. And that's the thing that frustrated me 693 00:50:01.880 --> 00:50:06.679 is I felt like what we were dealing with was I felt like, for 694 00:50:06.760 --> 00:50:10.039 the longest time, Cliff, that we were dealing with, well, the 695 00:50:10.079 --> 00:50:15.639 people that we were dealing with were looking for a grading for Gigantopithecus and they 696 00:50:15.679 --> 00:50:20.519 were trying to find, you know, any indication of markers that were leaning 697 00:50:20.559 --> 00:50:24.280 in that direction. So when these samples were sent in, if it didn't 698 00:50:24.800 --> 00:50:29.920 instantly ping in that direction, they just wrote it off as contamination. Now 699 00:50:30.639 --> 00:50:32.639 on the first admitted it very well could have been in some of those cases, 700 00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:37.159 but with the propensity of the amount of samples we sent in, I 701 00:50:37.239 --> 00:50:42.039 knew that all of them couldn't have been. And I knew that Leela was 702 00:50:42.079 --> 00:50:46.239 handling the you know, the samples properly. She was disciplined there, she 703 00:50:46.400 --> 00:50:51.559 was trained there, and the way we collected them we were very careful to 704 00:50:51.639 --> 00:50:58.400 avoid contaminating. So where I was leaning with that is that I think that 705 00:50:58.559 --> 00:51:02.199 what we were dealing with is something that's so close to us and not saying 706 00:51:02.239 --> 00:51:06.519 they were human. Obviously they're not. They possess things that we you know, 707 00:51:06.599 --> 00:51:14.360 abilities and physical traits obviously that are beyond ours. But mannerisms and behavior 708 00:51:14.559 --> 00:51:16.360 is so human like. And that's the thing that I think that blows you 709 00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:20.519 away when you're close to these things and you're around them along time. As 710 00:51:20.559 --> 00:51:24.920 you guys know, the intelligence, the level of intelligence you're dealing with is 711 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:30.000 far beyond any animal you're used to dealing with. You I felt like in 712 00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:35.320 many occasions that was that was face to face in the dark, maybe not 713 00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:37.960 face to face, but face behind a tree or whatever to another human being. 714 00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:44.280 That's a very high level thinking, intelligent, and almost knowing every step 715 00:51:44.360 --> 00:51:47.679 we're going to take before we even know it. You know. So these 716 00:51:47.800 --> 00:51:51.639 DNA samples, I'm thinking, well, that's what we got to be looking 717 00:51:51.719 --> 00:51:58.760 for. Is something more leaning towards human in that aspect. And the amount 718 00:51:59.039 --> 00:52:02.800 of so I know, you guys know this story, but the DNA that 719 00:52:02.920 --> 00:52:08.840 I clicked in the end was blood and we had we had a significant amount 720 00:52:08.840 --> 00:52:12.280 of blood. I mean, it wasn't it wasn't a huge puddle or any 721 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:15.599 but it was it was you know, maybe the size of your thumbnail, 722 00:52:15.880 --> 00:52:22.960 you know, a nice big droplet of blood, and we had we had 723 00:52:22.000 --> 00:52:28.679 submitted that sample to Todd Distel out of New York. Everyone I think knows 724 00:52:28.760 --> 00:52:32.840 who he is in the big footing field. But Leeli had sent a good 725 00:52:34.880 --> 00:52:38.519 chunk of that sample to Todd at first because she had been interacting with Todd 726 00:52:38.639 --> 00:52:43.800 for a while, and Todd right away came back as well, no, 727 00:52:43.960 --> 00:52:49.239 that's just you know, that's just more contaminated, you know, sample its 728 00:52:49.360 --> 00:52:53.199 human. It's not it's not anything important, it's just human. And that 729 00:52:53.400 --> 00:52:58.239 was very disappointing to me because I was ninety I want to say, ninety 730 00:52:58.320 --> 00:53:02.280 eight point nine maybe ninety nine percent sure we had that blood sample from one 731 00:53:02.320 --> 00:53:07.559 of those one of those individuals. They're one of those big foot there on 732 00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:10.440 the property. And so I was very disappointed with that. But I did 733 00:53:10.599 --> 00:53:15.000 have some samples left over, some quantity of that blood sample left over, 734 00:53:16.239 --> 00:53:21.960 and I ended up having to send all of that to Melba. I Adriane 735 00:53:21.960 --> 00:53:24.079 had talked to somebody. I'm still to this day not really sure who it 736 00:53:24.320 --> 00:53:30.679 was, but Adrian had been talking to somebody and they had gotten Adrian touch 737 00:53:30.719 --> 00:53:35.880 of me with Melba, and Melba was willing to look at that blood sample 738 00:53:36.159 --> 00:53:40.280 and some of our hair samples and saliva samples and other things we had and 739 00:53:42.079 --> 00:53:45.280 all of that stuff, and it ended up going to Melba. And to 740 00:53:45.400 --> 00:53:51.800 this day, I'm I'm pretty very upset about giving away all of my samples 741 00:53:51.880 --> 00:53:54.960 to one lab and one person because that's where it all ended up going. 742 00:53:55.719 --> 00:54:01.519 And I think Todd had discarded his samples early on, so this thing had 743 00:54:01.599 --> 00:54:07.320 worked really hard to get this, uh, this blood sample just in some 744 00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:15.239 ways uh just got you know, discarded and uh and properly handled them. 745 00:54:15.280 --> 00:54:17.239 And again I'm still kind of bitter to that to this day. I wish 746 00:54:17.280 --> 00:54:21.039 it would have held on to as you know, a small bit of that 747 00:54:21.840 --> 00:54:24.800 so we could have had something else to send to another third party or fourth 748 00:54:24.880 --> 00:54:30.719 party down the line to have it. We all wish that. Yeah, 749 00:54:30.880 --> 00:54:34.280 repeatability is a key to science. You know, It's not just about handling 750 00:54:34.360 --> 00:54:37.840 things correctly or knowing a lot of facts. You know, it's really repeatability. 751 00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:40.000 You know, you can't send it, you know, you can't send 752 00:54:40.079 --> 00:54:43.800 everything to one person. And I'm not talking to you, Dennis. You 753 00:54:43.880 --> 00:54:45.360 know this. You learned the hard way, unfortunately, and then we all 754 00:54:45.440 --> 00:54:50.599 learned the hard way through you and in our own situations too. But when 755 00:54:50.599 --> 00:54:53.000 people do collect things, if you have thirty air samples, don't give them 756 00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:57.960 all to anybody. Give two or three to somebody and spread them around widely. 757 00:54:58.079 --> 00:55:01.119 If you have, you know, a thumbnail size drip of blood somewhere, 758 00:55:01.199 --> 00:55:05.320 scrape off a tiny little amount and here, and send it to here, 759 00:55:05.440 --> 00:55:07.039 send it there, send it to a bunch of other places as well. 760 00:55:07.159 --> 00:55:12.480 Because one person saying something, it's just one person saying something, who 761 00:55:12.559 --> 00:55:15.480 cares, who believes it doesn't matter if you have thirty people or to even 762 00:55:15.519 --> 00:55:20.599 ten or five people singing the same song, suddenly have a chorus of truth 763 00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:25.360 there. And that goes a lot further amongst the scientists than anything else. 764 00:55:27.559 --> 00:55:30.599 Yeah. Absolutely, And I regret that to this day that I allowed that 765 00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:36.599 to happen because I could have I could have went, you know, I 766 00:55:36.679 --> 00:55:39.079 could have just held onto a small piece and not said anything. But I 767 00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:44.599 was obligated to, you know, to the people I was working with in 768 00:55:44.679 --> 00:55:46.599 the project, and I didn't want to be de seeple that way. And 769 00:55:46.679 --> 00:55:51.119 I felt like maybe they knew better, you know, maybe they knew better 770 00:55:51.239 --> 00:55:54.519 that I gave them, given them everything I had there and I felt that 771 00:55:54.559 --> 00:55:58.480 it was in good hands. But you know, again, in retrospect, 772 00:55:58.519 --> 00:56:00.920 I'm thinking, man, I just wish it to held on to some of 773 00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:05.320 that and and not you know, put all our eggs in that one basket. 774 00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:07.719 But it is what it is. But it didn't definitely doesn't take much 775 00:56:07.800 --> 00:56:13.199 blood. I mean, even a small little pinpoint sample would have been adequate, 776 00:56:13.320 --> 00:56:17.199 you know, And dang, it just just one of those things there. 777 00:56:17.320 --> 00:56:22.079 Regret there. So well, yeah, you know, anybody who has 778 00:56:22.199 --> 00:56:24.840 no regrets in their big footing life hasn't been big footing for very long. 779 00:56:25.519 --> 00:56:31.559 Yeah, stay tuned for more bigfoot and beyond with Cliff and Bogo. We'll 780 00:56:31.599 --> 00:56:40.760 be right back after these messages. In the end, we thought we had 781 00:56:40.800 --> 00:56:45.000 all these pieces of footage. Most of them weren't very good, some of 782 00:56:45.079 --> 00:56:49.400 them were fairly decent. I feel like there's a couple there that have been 783 00:56:49.440 --> 00:56:53.840 criticized. But I wasn't there for the facial footage of Matilda footage. I 784 00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:58.599 wasn't there for that. I wasn't there for the initial pieces the pond where 785 00:56:58.639 --> 00:57:01.559 it was walking past the pond, and the pancake footage. Matt did that. 786 00:57:01.679 --> 00:57:07.000 When Matt took that with surveillance cameras. But I was there later on 787 00:57:07.440 --> 00:57:14.119 and around when she got some other interesting pieces, like several pieces of footage 788 00:57:14.119 --> 00:57:16.239 of them, you know, curled up in a feeble position to sleeping. 789 00:57:17.000 --> 00:57:21.559 That was her. She was able to get close to him. We weren't 790 00:57:21.599 --> 00:57:25.000 involved in that. But that's real. Think that footage is legit? Yeah, 791 00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:30.639 yeah, I do. I do, because I was around there enough, 792 00:57:30.679 --> 00:57:35.840 Bobo, and believe me, the entirety of five years, in particularly 793 00:57:35.880 --> 00:57:40.079 the first six months I was there, I was constantly looking for any kind 794 00:57:40.119 --> 00:57:47.239 of questionable shenanigans or things that didn't seem right. But I learned fairly quickly 795 00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:51.639 that you know, when these things were around, you knew it, and 796 00:57:51.880 --> 00:57:55.840 you knew how they acted and behaved, and she had the special bond with 797 00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:59.639 them, and she could approach him. Not all the time, but sometimes 798 00:57:59.679 --> 00:58:04.079 she get close to them. And when she would do that, she would 799 00:58:04.119 --> 00:58:06.960 even be uneasy doing it. She felt She even told me one time, 800 00:58:07.079 --> 00:58:10.440 she said that she feels like she's betrayed their trust by trying to get footage 801 00:58:10.480 --> 00:58:15.079 with the camera and it they didn't like it, and she was afraid sometimes 802 00:58:15.119 --> 00:58:17.880 that they would hurt her. I don't know if they ever had her before, 803 00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:23.800 but she had some legitimate fears. It wasn't like a situation where you 804 00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:28.079 know, maybe making it sound like this is a place where she just go 805 00:58:28.159 --> 00:58:30.400 at will and get whatever she wanted, but she couldn't do that. They 806 00:58:30.440 --> 00:58:36.559 even were very unpredictable with her at times. You know, they wouldn't allow 807 00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:39.519 her to approach them, they would get mad at her, they would display 808 00:58:39.679 --> 00:58:45.320 against her, they would you know, leff charge to other things that would 809 00:58:45.360 --> 00:58:50.119 make her fearful as well at times. So you know, I had to 810 00:58:50.360 --> 00:58:53.159 give her a certain amount of leeway there and I would push her and I 811 00:58:53.199 --> 00:58:55.800 would press her or to do more, get more, get out there and 812 00:58:55.880 --> 00:59:01.159 get more footage. And you know, probably didn't help me sometimes it probably 813 00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:07.000 you know, they they would get angry with me quite a bit too that 814 00:59:07.159 --> 00:59:12.440 way. But again at the end, guys, I I we knew I 815 00:59:12.840 --> 00:59:15.599 talked with Adrian a lot about this in Lela, and we knew that the 816 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:21.440 footage wasn't going to be you know, the it just wasn't going to be 817 00:59:21.679 --> 00:59:27.639 adequate be able to help push this along or get this mystery a little bit 818 00:59:27.760 --> 00:59:31.360 more, uh, you know, down the road. So we felt like 819 00:59:31.519 --> 00:59:37.800 DNA would be the one thing that people can't really you know and you know, 820 00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:42.480 deny or have problems with because you can't you can't alter DNA. You 821 00:59:42.519 --> 00:59:45.960 know, if you get a good sample, that should come back and prove 822 00:59:45.039 --> 00:59:49.679 that there's an unknown species there. Well, we set our goal in that 823 00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:52.559 last few months and trying to get DNA, and we knew that they were 824 00:59:52.599 --> 00:59:54.400 taking food and we knew that we could put you know, plates out, 825 00:59:54.599 --> 01:00:00.280 how do we get good samples because saliva wasn't cutting it and it wasn't substantial 826 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:06.639 enough according to our one lab we were using. So we said to ourself, 827 01:00:06.679 --> 01:00:09.000 well, let's try to get blood. And you guys remember the whole 828 01:00:10.360 --> 01:00:15.719 you remember Meldrums. He did a documentary where they went up to I believe 829 01:00:15.719 --> 01:00:21.000 it was Snell Grove Lake was the one where they put the yeah, yeah, 830 01:00:21.039 --> 01:00:24.519 the monster quests. Actually it's a monster quest, that's right, Yeah, 831 01:00:24.679 --> 01:00:30.000 we're him and Kurt Nelson went up and they they found a snailboard. 832 01:00:30.000 --> 01:00:32.920 All you guys know about the nailboard. I won't go in the details about 833 01:00:32.960 --> 01:00:37.679 that, but we had even come up with an idea to do that because 834 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:40.960 we knew that one of the game trials they used not frequently, but that 835 01:00:42.159 --> 01:00:45.480 they had used close to the property. We thought we'd bury one with just 836 01:00:45.559 --> 01:00:49.320 a few nails sticking out. But then, you know, then we also 837 01:00:49.360 --> 01:00:52.719 came up with an idea of putting fish hooks out in the trees along the 838 01:00:52.800 --> 01:00:57.960 trail in hopes that it would snag a piece of flesh or hair. And 839 01:00:58.119 --> 01:01:00.800 all of these things that we were coming up with. I felt we're just 840 01:01:00.840 --> 01:01:04.039 too too barbaric, too brutal, because if we injured them, And of 841 01:01:04.079 --> 01:01:08.519 course she felt that way too, that these were just things that you know, 842 01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:14.320 just was a little too over the top. But we were desperate to 843 01:01:14.400 --> 01:01:19.880 try to get some some hair or skin or blood, you know, preferably 844 01:01:19.920 --> 01:01:24.519 flash or something that you know is very very pure. And eventually we came 845 01:01:24.559 --> 01:01:28.079 to the conclusion, well, they are taking these places of food, so 846 01:01:28.239 --> 01:01:34.159 what we could do is we could try to get blood out of that. 847 01:01:34.320 --> 01:01:36.800 And how do we do that? So what we we came up with this 848 01:01:37.000 --> 01:01:44.280 plan and we took some uh, some sterile glass from just some thin glass 849 01:01:44.320 --> 01:01:46.880 like you find in the drinking glass or something. Right when you break a 850 01:01:47.079 --> 01:01:51.840 little you know, thin wall, drinking glass, it's fine glass. It's 851 01:01:52.199 --> 01:01:57.559 sharp. We took some little shards of that that we had sterilized, this 852 01:01:57.639 --> 01:02:00.039 glass we had sterilized, and then we took a clean new paper plate and 853 01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:07.599 a stack, and then we took some crazy glue and we put three of 854 01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:10.599 these little shards, arranged them at the very middle of this plate, and 855 01:02:10.719 --> 01:02:15.440 put them in a semicircle, right, and arranged him so the little sharp 856 01:02:15.559 --> 01:02:20.760 edges of this glass would just stick up just enough to just give you a 857 01:02:20.760 --> 01:02:23.000 little bit of laceration, not cut you deep, but set it up in 858 01:02:23.000 --> 01:02:28.199 a way where it would just lacerate just enough to draw some blood. And 859 01:02:29.000 --> 01:02:34.119 I mean, we painstakingly built this plate just to make sure that we wouldn't 860 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:37.119 hurt him or you know, hurt anything that would take food off of that 861 01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:42.360 very badly. Right, So we did this, and then we took a 862 01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:46.280 piece of bread with peanut butter and we flopped it right over the top of 863 01:02:46.360 --> 01:02:51.079 that glass, right, so the bread and the peanut butter was covering this 864 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:54.840 glass. And then we had her cover the whole thing with syrup. And 865 01:02:55.440 --> 01:02:58.719 this was something, like I said, they really seemed to like because they 866 01:02:58.719 --> 01:03:01.320 would clean the whole plate. And the idea was is that if they cleaned 867 01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:05.880 the plate hopefully would get them to last crate their lip or the tongue or 868 01:03:05.960 --> 01:03:07.519 something, you know, and we could get a little bit of blood that 869 01:03:07.679 --> 01:03:10.039 way. I know it kind of sounds brutal, but you know, the 870 01:03:10.199 --> 01:03:15.079 tongue and the lips and the areas, the tissue in the mouth area heals 871 01:03:15.239 --> 01:03:20.119 very quickly, and yeah, it's the least likely to get problems. So 872 01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:27.840 we thought that would be probably the most the most useful way to try to 873 01:03:27.880 --> 01:03:31.440 get something without creating a huge problem. You know. We did that and 874 01:03:31.679 --> 01:03:37.239 for three nights we would we put that out there, and nothing took this 875 01:03:37.400 --> 01:03:40.800 food. But on that third night, she said that she thought she had 876 01:03:40.840 --> 01:03:45.679 heard them back there, and we left the plate and went inside, and 877 01:03:45.840 --> 01:03:50.159 we came back out a couple hours later, and we could see that it 878 01:03:50.159 --> 01:03:52.880 had been moved, you know, it had been literally picked up and moved 879 01:03:52.920 --> 01:03:58.119 and placed about twenty thirty feet away from where we had left it, and 880 01:03:58.239 --> 01:04:01.559 it was completely cleaned off, just like they do. So we were pretty 881 01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:05.559 confident that we thought that this is one of them. You know, that 882 01:04:05.840 --> 01:04:11.800 I had actually taken this food, and I picked the plate up, was 883 01:04:11.840 --> 01:04:15.079 wearing rubber gloves, picked the plate up, kept it far away from myself 884 01:04:15.199 --> 01:04:19.679 and immediately put it into a new paper bag, a large paper bag, 885 01:04:19.880 --> 01:04:26.480 one of the like grocery bags, and we sealed it up, carried it 886 01:04:26.559 --> 01:04:30.440 in and when we looked at it under the light, we could see the 887 01:04:30.440 --> 01:04:33.400 blood on the on the plate, and I got photos of that plate. 888 01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:36.360 They took it over to Leela right away to the tour. She had a 889 01:04:36.360 --> 01:04:42.679 little makeship ship lab in the back of the house and she processed it and 890 01:04:42.760 --> 01:04:46.480 cut it up and sent the samples out. And that part of that sample 891 01:04:46.559 --> 01:04:49.840 is what went to Melba. Actually a good part of it sample went to 892 01:04:49.920 --> 01:04:57.400 Melba, and that's how we obtained that. And you know, like I 893 01:04:57.480 --> 01:05:00.920 said to this day, we were just confident it had to be one of 894 01:05:00.000 --> 01:05:03.639 them because when animals took those plates, we knew it. They chewed the 895 01:05:03.679 --> 01:05:08.559 plates are pretty good and they usually left them in a spot, but most 896 01:05:08.599 --> 01:05:12.280 of the time, nothing even touched the plate, nothing even touched the food 897 01:05:12.519 --> 01:05:15.760 in the time that we left it out there. So we were very confident 898 01:05:15.840 --> 01:05:20.840 that this was one of them that took that plate. So that's how we 899 01:05:20.960 --> 01:05:26.039 got that blood sample. You know what the footage I really liked was I 900 01:05:26.119 --> 01:05:29.719 think you got was the night footage where there's one walk and I think it 901 01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:33.400 was left right then the female walking directly away kind of waddling. Oh, 902 01:05:33.559 --> 01:05:36.960 yes, that that piece of footage was taken by her husband, and it 903 01:05:38.079 --> 01:05:42.320 was it was through night vision. Bubble yeah, green, yeah, third 904 01:05:42.400 --> 01:05:45.000 gin. Yeah. That's another one of those things where I said at the 905 01:05:45.039 --> 01:05:49.079 beginning of this, I told you guys, you had to be there to 906 01:05:49.199 --> 01:05:53.559 really understand this. You know, people look at that and he said, 907 01:05:53.599 --> 01:05:57.280 that's probably a guy in a suit. But listen, you know, I 908 01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:01.679 was there enough. I've seen these things around that property and they're in their 909 01:06:01.719 --> 01:06:05.880 element when they're in the trees, and they're very stealthy and quiet, you 910 01:06:05.960 --> 01:06:10.440 know, and hard to even get close to, let alone sea or even 911 01:06:10.760 --> 01:06:14.639 that could be. I was standing next to one less than ten feet and 912 01:06:14.719 --> 01:06:18.000 I never knew it was there. And the only reason I figured out that 913 01:06:18.119 --> 01:06:21.360 it was there was it finally grunted right at me and I realized it was 914 01:06:21.480 --> 01:06:27.239 like less than ten feet from my head, right and otherwise I didn't smell 915 01:06:27.360 --> 01:06:29.920 it, I didn't hear it. I didn't even know it was there. 916 01:06:30.239 --> 01:06:33.920 It was real spooky to know that they're that good, and we're just totally 917 01:06:33.960 --> 01:06:39.960 blind, dumb animals out there right in the dark, and we're totally vulnerable. 918 01:06:40.000 --> 01:06:44.719 But this piece of footage he had gone into the barn. This is 919 01:06:44.760 --> 01:06:46.239 the time when we were still working with him pretty good, and we were 920 01:06:46.280 --> 01:06:49.199 trying to get more footage from him, and they were trying to get footage 921 01:06:49.199 --> 01:06:58.000 ACRUSS, and we had outfitted them with a good high definition sony HANDICAM hard 922 01:06:58.079 --> 01:07:02.880 drive, you know, high deaf footage all that, with a good third 923 01:07:02.960 --> 01:07:10.000 gen PBS fourteen night vision couple of that, and those worked pretty good in 924 01:07:10.079 --> 01:07:12.639 the dark, but you still had to have some light to get some usable 925 01:07:12.639 --> 01:07:15.280 image. Otherwise it got really grainy when it got pretty dark with no moonlight. 926 01:07:15.400 --> 01:07:20.360 Right, well, this particular night, there was enough moon and he 927 01:07:20.440 --> 01:07:25.239 had gone out to the bar, or actually to his garage and he was 928 01:07:25.320 --> 01:07:27.760 sitting in the garage just what he told me. I was there when he 929 01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:30.119 took this footage, but he said he was sitting in the garage and had 930 01:07:30.119 --> 01:07:32.800 been waiting there for several hours and he had her come out put food out 931 01:07:33.920 --> 01:07:40.800 near the garage, and he was sitting inside a darkened garage. Well, 932 01:07:40.920 --> 01:07:44.920 there was no light on. He's inside this garage with a window that pased 933 01:07:44.960 --> 01:07:47.239 out the back, and now this window had many blinds on it, and 934 01:07:48.280 --> 01:07:53.280 he's sitting behind the many blinds, looking out through the backyard at the tree 935 01:07:53.360 --> 01:07:57.719 line going down the back of their hill. And he said that after a 936 01:07:57.760 --> 01:08:00.559 while he saw movement, and so he took the camera up and he saw 937 01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:04.480 this thing coming towards where she had put the food, which was near where 938 01:08:04.559 --> 01:08:11.119 he was. And he said that he turned the camera on, and as 939 01:08:11.159 --> 01:08:15.599 the camera came on, this thing looked right at the at the window and 940 01:08:15.719 --> 01:08:17.920 saw him inside this darkened garage. I don't know to this day, I 941 01:08:17.920 --> 01:08:20.079 don't know how. I said, did you have the light? Because we 942 01:08:20.159 --> 01:08:24.039 had the the way we had these cameras set up is that it had an 943 01:08:24.119 --> 01:08:27.399 eye cup and you had to put your eye to the eye cup. And 944 01:08:27.560 --> 01:08:31.039 so I doubt that he had any light leaking from the camera because he had 945 01:08:31.079 --> 01:08:36.039 to look through the eye cup to take footage. And this thing saw him 946 01:08:36.119 --> 01:08:42.039 moving inside of this darkened garage in the dark at night. And he said, 947 01:08:42.039 --> 01:08:45.520 what it did is it instantly spun around on its I think he said 948 01:08:45.520 --> 01:08:47.960 it was his left leg, but it was it was walking towards him, 949 01:08:48.319 --> 01:08:54.319 and it instantly spun on its left leg and started walking back in the other 950 01:08:54.439 --> 01:08:56.920 direction, back down the hill. And he said, by that time, 951 01:08:57.039 --> 01:09:00.760 that's when the camera got started recording. By the time he got the odd 952 01:09:00.880 --> 01:09:03.720 button on and got it recording, what you see is it's walking away from 953 01:09:03.800 --> 01:09:08.560 him, back down the hill, and it goes down a little ways and 954 01:09:08.680 --> 01:09:13.439 then there's a patch of very tall weeds and it goes you see it go 955 01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:15.920 to these to this, to these tall weeds and stuff, and it kind 956 01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:21.840 of turns sharply to its left and walks behind his cluster of shrubs and weeds, 957 01:09:21.880 --> 01:09:27.600 and it just stops there, and I guess it's looking back up towards 958 01:09:27.640 --> 01:09:29.600 him, but you lose it as soon as it gets into the weeds. 959 01:09:29.720 --> 01:09:32.439 He just kind of just totally lose it in that night vision because of the 960 01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:35.479 quality of the you know, the footage is just not very good. But 961 01:09:35.960 --> 01:09:39.520 when they stop moving, you just can't see him. They just blend in 962 01:09:39.680 --> 01:09:43.159 so well. But that was that piece of footage. And he said, 963 01:09:43.439 --> 01:09:45.800 what it was remarkable to me about that Bobo was that he said that he 964 01:09:46.000 --> 01:09:49.119 was in a darkened garage dot he had a perfect trap set up, and 965 01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:53.920 then it wouldn't see him, and somehow it still sees him in this garage 966 01:09:54.359 --> 01:09:59.199 and goes back down the hill into the dark and you know, goes back 967 01:09:59.279 --> 01:10:02.800 into the tree or the weeds back down in there. So it's one of 968 01:10:02.880 --> 01:10:05.560 those many, many experiences where you say yourself, well, had it been 969 01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:12.119 people messing around, how would they have They've got to have spectacular night vision, 970 01:10:12.199 --> 01:10:15.920 they've got to have the ability to see and superhuman abilities to be able 971 01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:21.039 to see and do the things that these things did around there. And imagine 972 01:10:21.119 --> 01:10:26.640 so like doing that even if somebody is wearing his suit, for instance, 973 01:10:26.880 --> 01:10:30.199 and they're walking around in a suit trying to fool people, how are they 974 01:10:30.239 --> 01:10:33.880 going to get be able to see so well and hear so well even within 975 01:10:33.960 --> 01:10:38.640 the confines of a suit. You know, again, you had to be 976 01:10:38.760 --> 01:10:44.760 there and experience this stuff to understand the depth of the abilities of these things 977 01:10:44.880 --> 01:10:48.199 and how often things like that happened. That just told you that you're not 978 01:10:48.319 --> 01:10:54.319 dealing with with anything but something you know, phenomenal out there, something that's 979 01:10:54.399 --> 01:10:56.880 not like us at all. I mean, I thought it didn't walk with 980 01:10:56.960 --> 01:11:00.800 a human like it walked like a Sasquatch to me that I had wider hips, 981 01:11:00.840 --> 01:11:02.840 and you know, Bob, that those things, they're the ones. 982 01:11:02.880 --> 01:11:06.520 And I saw them six times in the time that I was there, in 983 01:11:06.600 --> 01:11:12.319 that five years, I saw them with my own eyes six times. I 984 01:11:12.760 --> 01:11:15.479 you know, we got some footage pieces mostly it was them. I got 985 01:11:15.479 --> 01:11:19.560 a few small pieces myself, but they actually see them moving and walking around. 986 01:11:20.399 --> 01:11:25.319 My impression was when I saw them with my with an unaided eye, 987 01:11:25.920 --> 01:11:29.319 was I was looking at another person for a brief second, because what I 988 01:11:29.439 --> 01:11:32.640 saw, what the movement I saw looked very human like in almost every aspect. 989 01:11:32.720 --> 01:11:38.000 It wasn't hunched over or you know, moving around like a gorilla or 990 01:11:38.039 --> 01:11:42.159 a monkey. These things move very graceful and very human like and unhurried. 991 01:11:42.239 --> 01:11:46.560 They weren't running, and they weren't, you know, acting any different than 992 01:11:46.600 --> 01:11:50.880 a person would act in many ways. And when this one in that footage, 993 01:11:50.920 --> 01:11:55.000 when it turned around and it was walking back down the hill, you 994 01:11:55.039 --> 01:11:59.119 could see the body shape of that thing it and again the ones I seen 995 01:12:00.279 --> 01:12:03.000 had that same body shape. They were not super white at that at the 996 01:12:03.239 --> 01:12:09.960 shoulders, they had almost wider hips. So we referred to the ones around 997 01:12:10.119 --> 01:12:13.359 there, which we saw I want to say there was three of them that 998 01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:19.119 we saw, mostly three of them. We referred to them as females because 999 01:12:19.159 --> 01:12:23.079 they have a female that pear shape of the body, that the hips being 1000 01:12:23.119 --> 01:12:26.880 whiter than the shoulders. And I say three of them, I say there 1001 01:12:26.960 --> 01:12:30.079 was a very young one that you described in the pancake footage, and then 1002 01:12:30.159 --> 01:12:35.479 there was a one that was about six foot night and the other one which 1003 01:12:35.520 --> 01:12:40.960 is slightly taller than that. And they all had the same body shapes except 1004 01:12:41.000 --> 01:12:45.680 for that very young one had a very large elongated head with the body. 1005 01:12:45.840 --> 01:12:48.560 You know, it had an odd shape to the head. It was just 1006 01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:53.239 kind of like an egg turnam its side, not straight up and down, 1007 01:12:53.279 --> 01:12:59.319 but on its side in elongated skull kind of underneath that hair. And I 1008 01:12:59.399 --> 01:13:01.039 think you can kind of see that in that pancake, but it's just got 1009 01:13:01.079 --> 01:13:05.760 an odd toddler child toddler to look to it. You know, which ones 1010 01:13:05.840 --> 01:13:11.880 did you personally see? The other three? I saw the I believe it 1011 01:13:12.000 --> 01:13:15.399 was the one around six foot tall. And the reason I say believe it 1012 01:13:15.560 --> 01:13:18.359 was that one is because it was underneath me. I was up on a 1013 01:13:18.399 --> 01:13:24.560 tree stand and it came out from behind some shrubs and bushes in a tree 1014 01:13:24.640 --> 01:13:28.520 line that we were on, and it came around trying to skirt around this 1015 01:13:29.159 --> 01:13:33.680 tree stand that me and her husband were in, and I saw it from 1016 01:13:34.119 --> 01:13:38.239 head to toe. But I was looking down at it at like a forty 1017 01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:41.960 five degree angle from about fifteen feet up, and I was looking at it. 1018 01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:44.600 It was dark, but there was enough moonlight I could see the entire 1019 01:13:44.720 --> 01:13:49.159 body perfectly in the moonlight. And it had that same shape. The hips 1020 01:13:49.239 --> 01:13:53.520 were really wide, and it looked just heavy set, you know, just 1021 01:13:53.720 --> 01:13:58.479 solid, big boned, but not super tall, just big boned, you 1022 01:13:58.560 --> 01:14:03.560 know. But yeah, that was I mean, I could go on for 1023 01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:08.039 hours tell you about all the different experiences I had there, and there's some 1024 01:14:08.159 --> 01:14:13.239 pretty interesting stuff. I just don't have the time. But you know, 1025 01:14:13.359 --> 01:14:16.600 in five years I spent I spent about two weeks out of every month over 1026 01:14:16.720 --> 01:14:19.680 there. You know, I still had a family here in Colorado. I 1027 01:14:19.720 --> 01:14:24.159 had to be home, but I would go out there and spend about, 1028 01:14:24.399 --> 01:14:28.800 you know, ten days to fourteen days at a time, and be out 1029 01:14:28.840 --> 01:14:32.760 there almost every night when I could, and just trying to get stuff. 1030 01:14:32.800 --> 01:14:34.800 And I said, most of the time we just didn't get anything. But 1031 01:14:35.159 --> 01:14:40.119 there was those times that made up for all of that, all that dead 1032 01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:42.760 time. And you know, Bubbo, having known that you wanted to come 1033 01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:45.239 out there, or even you Cliff God, I would have been happy to 1034 01:14:45.279 --> 01:14:47.239 have you guys come out. I could have got I could have we could 1035 01:14:47.279 --> 01:14:50.640 have brought you out and hosted you. I just didn't have any idea, 1036 01:14:50.800 --> 01:14:59.479 you know, really really didn't know you know that, you know, yeah, 1037 01:14:59.479 --> 01:15:00.720 I could have on that, but I didn't know that you guys, 1038 01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:04.239 you know, had the time or wanted to even do that. But well, 1039 01:15:04.439 --> 01:15:10.199 honestly, uh, I knew you at the time. I think we'd 1040 01:15:10.239 --> 01:15:13.000 become friends before you went out there, like maybe a year or two before 1041 01:15:13.039 --> 01:15:15.399 that. But when I heard that you got put on the project like that, 1042 01:15:15.640 --> 01:15:19.079 I I took a couple of steps back to get because I respected you 1043 01:15:19.119 --> 01:15:21.680 and I wanted you to have all the space I didn't. You know, 1044 01:15:21.760 --> 01:15:26.079 you didn't even need you didn't need me nosing around in your business. So 1045 01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:27.800 I just kind of like, let you do what you need to do. 1046 01:15:27.920 --> 01:15:30.399 Figured well, I'm going to catch up with Dennis eventually, I'll figure, 1047 01:15:30.600 --> 01:15:32.960 you know, I'll hear some stuff. So yeah, well, you know, 1048 01:15:33.399 --> 01:15:36.840 here's the thing. What I like to say, is if given enough 1049 01:15:36.920 --> 01:15:40.840 time, if if I could have had you out there as a guest, 1050 01:15:41.000 --> 01:15:45.680 which I think Adrian would have been fine with that. But had I had 1051 01:15:45.800 --> 01:15:49.439 enough time and you guys spent enough time there with with us there, you 1052 01:15:49.560 --> 01:15:55.039 definitely would have come away scratch in your your head thinking, man, there's 1053 01:15:56.119 --> 01:16:00.079 just spend enough time there and you'd have your own experiences that would, you 1054 01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:02.640 know, blow you away. They really are, really with some fascinating stuff 1055 01:16:02.680 --> 01:16:06.119 that happened around there. And that's one of the things I found about that 1056 01:16:06.279 --> 01:16:11.399 area is that a lot of people around there have had experience and continue to 1057 01:16:11.479 --> 01:16:15.039 have experiences, but they just stay hush about it. My favorite part about 1058 01:16:15.039 --> 01:16:18.079 the whole thing is that it's where of the late great hero of mine, 1059 01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:23.319 doctor John Binnenol got to see his one on aise Sasquatch was at that place. 1060 01:16:24.680 --> 01:16:30.560 Yeah. John, great guy, as you guys know, and we 1061 01:16:30.680 --> 01:16:38.159 had him out for two weeks and great, great, great man he well, 1062 01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:41.720 as you all know. Everyone that knew him knew and loved John. 1063 01:16:41.800 --> 01:16:45.800 He was just really good at heart and what a loss for all of us 1064 01:16:45.279 --> 01:16:50.800 when he passed. But in the two weeks he got the experience several things 1065 01:16:51.319 --> 01:16:58.840 including we had rocks thrown at us from the tree line, vocalizations he's heard, 1066 01:16:59.279 --> 01:17:04.520 and and then of course his own sighting that we were at their house 1067 01:17:04.600 --> 01:17:09.479 and rainy day. Here's something that's interesting clip for Bobla. I want to 1068 01:17:09.520 --> 01:17:11.640 ask you guys this. I don't think we've ever talked about this, but 1069 01:17:12.760 --> 01:17:17.119 one of the things that I found over time in that location was that, 1070 01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:23.159 you know, everyone tends to think of these these things as being primarily nocturnal, 1071 01:17:23.319 --> 01:17:27.800 right, They don't tend to be too active during the day, at 1072 01:17:27.880 --> 01:17:32.720 least that that's what we believe. But the encounters around there occurred at all 1073 01:17:32.880 --> 01:17:38.199 times, mostly at night. But you know, I would never say that 1074 01:17:38.640 --> 01:17:43.319 that's the only time we'll ever have experiences. It could be first thing at 1075 01:17:43.439 --> 01:17:46.359 sunlight, be ten in the morning, two in the afternoon, or you 1076 01:17:46.439 --> 01:17:50.359 know, eleven o'clock at night, or whatever. It didn't matter. It 1077 01:17:50.439 --> 01:17:57.319 could happen at almost any time. But what I did find over over these 1078 01:17:57.399 --> 01:18:01.640 five years is that when we had bad weather, when when it was snowy 1079 01:18:01.960 --> 01:18:06.359 or particularly rainy and cloudy, overcast and just generally yucky and you didn't want 1080 01:18:06.359 --> 01:18:13.600 to be outside, guess who seemed to be more active, and it was 1081 01:18:14.239 --> 01:18:17.199 it was a rainy really, just kind of a crappy day that that day 1082 01:18:17.279 --> 01:18:23.840 that John had his daylight signing, And I tend to believe that maybe they 1083 01:18:24.000 --> 01:18:28.239 know that we're just not as you know, people are just not out in 1084 01:18:28.279 --> 01:18:30.239 that stuff. It's often it's a little safer for them to be out. 1085 01:18:30.319 --> 01:18:34.359 But we tended to have more activity during the day when it was like that, 1086 01:18:34.520 --> 01:18:41.760 overcast and cloudy. And in that particular day, we saw one from 1087 01:18:41.840 --> 01:18:45.560 the inside the house up at the tree line, and the woman had said 1088 01:18:45.600 --> 01:18:46.920 that she had heard him back in there and she thought they were there, 1089 01:18:47.000 --> 01:18:50.520 so she went out with umbrella and she's walking up and down this tree line, 1090 01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:54.600 you know, a couple hundred yards from the house, and we're washing 1091 01:18:54.640 --> 01:18:59.359 her through window and she stops and you can see her kind of looking in 1092 01:18:59.439 --> 01:19:04.079 a direction in the trees and talking. And eventually we saw this this brown, 1093 01:19:04.800 --> 01:19:10.600 brown patch of hair moving back in the trees, and you can John 1094 01:19:10.680 --> 01:19:15.720 we gave John farribinoculars. He said he could see his shoulder and part of 1095 01:19:15.760 --> 01:19:20.760 an arm and it was standing there looking towards her. So I think that 1096 01:19:21.039 --> 01:19:28.079 was his sighting, right, there. Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond 1097 01:19:28.199 --> 01:19:36.399 with Cliff and Bobo. Will be right back after these messages. Now. 1098 01:19:36.479 --> 01:19:43.840 To address the nocturnal versus diurnal thing, obviously they're not exclusively nocturnal, because 1099 01:19:43.880 --> 01:19:47.720 the Patterson Gimlin film for example. But do you feel through your experiences there 1100 01:19:47.800 --> 01:19:53.079 that they're more prone to come closer at night or do you think it doesn't 1101 01:19:53.119 --> 01:19:56.880 matter at all? I think that at night. Yeah, I think that 1102 01:19:57.399 --> 01:20:00.880 we definitely got closer to them at night than we did during the day. 1103 01:20:02.159 --> 01:20:05.359 At least, that they made their selves known when we were you know, 1104 01:20:05.479 --> 01:20:10.039 at times and we were close to them, and that came in the form 1105 01:20:10.159 --> 01:20:15.359 of some aggressiveness. Like you know, we would work those those those woods, 1106 01:20:15.439 --> 01:20:16.920 those tree lines quite a bit. And I mean when I say work 1107 01:20:16.960 --> 01:20:21.359 them, we would be walking from just about before dark. We'd go out 1108 01:20:21.439 --> 01:20:26.520 there and we'd have camp quarters and we'd have I'd have my audio gear going. 1109 01:20:26.600 --> 01:20:29.600 I kept them in the shirt pocket. I had this a digital reporder, 1110 01:20:30.880 --> 01:20:34.279 you know, like a digital audio recorder going for audio. And then 1111 01:20:34.319 --> 01:20:39.560 they kept we kept camp quarters and extra batteries and night vision, and we 1112 01:20:39.840 --> 01:20:43.000 stuffed them in pockets and we'd put them on try to conceal and hide them. 1113 01:20:43.039 --> 01:20:46.439 But we carried them with us all the time, right and well most 1114 01:20:46.479 --> 01:20:50.800 of the time. When we get close to them after dark, I felt 1115 01:20:50.800 --> 01:20:55.239 like we could get pretty close because even though we had the equipment, they 1116 01:20:55.279 --> 01:20:58.439 were still they had the advantage because they're back into the stick foliage, into 1117 01:20:58.520 --> 01:21:00.960 the trees and core. You know, even with night vision, if you're 1118 01:21:01.000 --> 01:21:05.680 looking into the trees, you still have shading, and it's it's like during 1119 01:21:05.760 --> 01:21:09.840 the day when the sun shine down into the trees, even if you have 1120 01:21:09.920 --> 01:21:13.199 moonlight, the stuff cast shadows and you can't they could be in their ten 1121 01:21:13.279 --> 01:21:15.920 feet and you still can't see them even with night vision unless they're moving, 1122 01:21:16.079 --> 01:21:20.000 you know, And we could get we could get close to them, and 1123 01:21:20.079 --> 01:21:24.560 we knew we were close because we would hear them, and you know, 1124 01:21:24.680 --> 01:21:30.279 sometimes they would literally just you know, make odd noises or very subtle noises, 1125 01:21:30.359 --> 01:21:34.680 and you'd know it's not a you know, three hundred pound squirrel back 1126 01:21:34.760 --> 01:21:36.880 in there in the middle of the night, you know, chirping at you. 1127 01:21:39.560 --> 01:21:44.039 The other times we would literally hear, you know, sounds that were 1128 01:21:44.880 --> 01:21:48.600 I don't want to say like language, but you know, guttural guttural sounds. 1129 01:21:48.600 --> 01:21:50.640 We knew the sounds they made, and we knew it was them. 1130 01:21:53.520 --> 01:21:57.439 One particular night, clip I got in, we were going to put food 1131 01:21:57.520 --> 01:22:00.359 out for him. And this was a period of time when she felt like, 1132 01:22:00.680 --> 01:22:05.319 since I was there a lot, that I should make them more acclimated 1133 01:22:05.399 --> 01:22:12.279 to me being involved in putting food out with her. And I would go 1134 01:22:12.399 --> 01:22:15.399 with her a few times, and then I went out one evening. It 1135 01:22:15.520 --> 01:22:17.920 was pretty damn cold, it was middle of winter, but it was a 1136 01:22:18.000 --> 01:22:23.239 clearer, starry night, and I went out with the husband and we walked 1137 01:22:23.279 --> 01:22:25.960 out way out to the back of the field and got to the edge of 1138 01:22:26.000 --> 01:22:29.680 it, and she had said that she had thought she had heard him back 1139 01:22:29.760 --> 01:22:32.199 in there earlier that day, so she thought maybe that would be a good 1140 01:22:32.239 --> 01:22:36.159 place for us to go work. So we did, and I carried a 1141 01:22:36.279 --> 01:22:41.119 plate of food all the way back there with her husband, and we get 1142 01:22:41.199 --> 01:22:43.399 towards the back of the field and like I said, this is all, 1143 01:22:43.600 --> 01:22:48.119 you know, all thick woods and kind of spooky, and we're standing out 1144 01:22:48.119 --> 01:22:51.840 in the open field. And I looked at her husband and I said, 1145 01:22:51.880 --> 01:22:55.279 okay, well you want to take the food in there? Or should I 1146 01:22:55.359 --> 01:22:57.920 take it in there. He goes, no, you do it. So 1147 01:22:58.680 --> 01:23:01.640 I picked up the late and I'm holding both my hands and I start walking 1148 01:23:01.720 --> 01:23:05.359 into the trees. And now this area of the trees had a lot of 1149 01:23:06.199 --> 01:23:10.840 ceedars. There's a lot of seedars out there, you know, so it's 1150 01:23:10.880 --> 01:23:15.000 a deciduous forest, right, but there's some evergreens in there mixed in in 1151 01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:17.079 that part of Kentucky. So these cedars, when you know, even in 1152 01:23:17.159 --> 01:23:19.680 the winter, they're very thick, and it's pretty dark in there, and 1153 01:23:19.840 --> 01:23:23.840 that that was this part of the woods was a part that had a lot 1154 01:23:23.880 --> 01:23:27.800 of cedar growth in it. So I'm kind of walking into the trees here 1155 01:23:27.840 --> 01:23:30.319 and I'm getting into wards like a dark quarter, and I literally cannot see 1156 01:23:30.359 --> 01:23:33.560 the plate in my hand. It's that black. I look straight up and 1157 01:23:33.600 --> 01:23:36.520 I could see the pinpoint of the stars through the tree canopy, but I 1158 01:23:36.600 --> 01:23:42.199 can't see in front of me. So I'm I'm walking and I'm literally using 1159 01:23:42.239 --> 01:23:44.359 my feet to fill in front of me so I don't trip. And I 1160 01:23:44.720 --> 01:23:48.079 went in maybe twenty or thirty yards into the trees. I start I start 1161 01:23:48.239 --> 01:23:50.760 just doing what she does, you know. I start trying to talk to 1162 01:23:50.880 --> 01:23:54.359 them, and I'm thinking, okay, I'm not sure they're there. I'm 1163 01:23:54.439 --> 01:23:57.960 just doing what she does, right. So I'm holding this plate of food 1164 01:23:57.960 --> 01:24:00.479 and I'm going, I got your food for you, and here it is, 1165 01:24:00.680 --> 01:24:01.960 you know, and I'm trying to talk in this kind of sing song 1166 01:24:02.199 --> 01:24:06.359 voice that she does, and and I'm I'm I say a few times, 1167 01:24:06.399 --> 01:24:09.640 I got your food for you, and then I stop and I'm listening, 1168 01:24:09.680 --> 01:24:14.079 and it's you could hear a pin drop. It is that absolute still night 1169 01:24:14.159 --> 01:24:16.680 there is. It's you know, maybe you know, twenty degrees outside, 1170 01:24:16.720 --> 01:24:21.239 it's cold, it's dry, it's not a sound, and no animals, 1171 01:24:21.319 --> 01:24:26.119 nothing. And I said a couple more times, and every time I say 1172 01:24:26.159 --> 01:24:28.800 it, I stop, and I'm listening and I'm listening and I'm strained to 1173 01:24:28.880 --> 01:24:31.239 hear, and I don't hear anything. And I did this about four or 1174 01:24:31.279 --> 01:24:34.479 five times, and about the fifth time, I said, I got your 1175 01:24:34.560 --> 01:24:40.439 food for you here, and suddenly to my left and just a little bit 1176 01:24:40.479 --> 01:24:43.600 above me, and I swear it could have been more than ten feet from 1177 01:24:43.680 --> 01:24:49.800 me. It's just this, just like that, just a I'll tell you 1178 01:24:49.960 --> 01:24:54.640 what, guys, I wanted to come out of my boots so quickly I 1179 01:24:54.760 --> 01:25:00.560 scared the you know what out of it. Yeah, I was so I 1180 01:25:01.600 --> 01:25:05.960 didn't want to say it froze up. But her husband was back. He 1181 01:25:06.119 --> 01:25:09.760 heard it. He's back of the tree lines and he's going, dude, 1182 01:25:09.920 --> 01:25:14.479 dude, dude, put that down. And I'm just sitting there thinking, 1183 01:25:15.079 --> 01:25:17.279 oh, of course, that's why, Hugh. It just wanted me to 1184 01:25:17.319 --> 01:25:20.199 put it down and quit talking and get the hell out of there. It 1185 01:25:20.359 --> 01:25:27.239 just made no sense to me at them, so I did every bone in 1186 01:25:27.359 --> 01:25:30.800 my body. Guys wanted me to go running out of those woods full speed 1187 01:25:30.880 --> 01:25:34.920 and just throw that plate right because it had been standing there that whole time, 1188 01:25:35.000 --> 01:25:38.680 in this pitch black and I never knew it was there. I couldn't 1189 01:25:38.680 --> 01:25:42.760 smell it, I never heard it, didn't have any clue it was right 1190 01:25:42.840 --> 01:25:46.960 there, but you know it was there. And I set that plate down 1191 01:25:47.039 --> 01:25:53.279 as quickly and calmly as I could and turned and walked straight out of there. 1192 01:25:53.319 --> 01:25:56.079 And I wanted to run out of there because it was that close to 1193 01:25:56.159 --> 01:25:58.520 me. But you know, God, how many times had we been in 1194 01:25:58.640 --> 01:26:01.319 there and when it was that you never even had had an idea you know 1195 01:26:01.479 --> 01:26:05.840 that, you know one was was that close to you, so you know 1196 01:26:05.960 --> 01:26:10.479 it makes me wonder how long that thing was standing there just like looking at 1197 01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:13.520 you. It's thinking like, what what what's up with this new guy? 1198 01:26:13.640 --> 01:26:17.600 Man? Like, what what's wrong with this thing down right? Clip? 1199 01:26:18.039 --> 01:26:23.319 You know, I'm I'm like, I was a dude. I was blown 1200 01:26:23.319 --> 01:26:26.079 away at how I couldn't smell because that you know, you know, from 1201 01:26:26.159 --> 01:26:28.840 time to time we would smell him, and believe me, they had a 1202 01:26:29.039 --> 01:26:31.399 rank. I mean it was it was bad, but there's other times that 1203 01:26:31.439 --> 01:26:33.960 we were real close to him like that, or they were you know, 1204 01:26:34.039 --> 01:26:35.880 we knew they were into a sity and you could sell them. And it 1205 01:26:35.960 --> 01:26:39.399 was mostly in the winter it was really cold. I just figured because it 1206 01:26:39.520 --> 01:26:45.159 was so cold, they were not exuding a lot of difference sense, you 1207 01:26:45.239 --> 01:26:47.319 know, or anything. But at that point I never smelled him. He 1208 01:26:47.439 --> 01:26:50.239 was that close. I never heard it or smelled it. And I'm not 1209 01:26:50.279 --> 01:26:53.560 gonna say him. It could have been a him or I don't know, 1210 01:26:53.680 --> 01:26:58.319 but it was right there and that old time, and God, I just 1211 01:26:58.399 --> 01:27:00.159 thought, if it was light enough, I had the ability to see how 1212 01:27:00.239 --> 01:27:02.880 remarkable that would have been to been that close to it. You know, 1213 01:27:03.880 --> 01:27:08.199 yeah, didn't you guy? It wasn't there a ten foot mail scene there, 1214 01:27:08.279 --> 01:27:13.880 like by the telephone the light pole one time, so I don't ten 1215 01:27:13.920 --> 01:27:16.319 foot, no, I think that we came to the conclusion it was around 1216 01:27:16.479 --> 01:27:21.359 seven and a half to eight foot and the guy, her husband, actually 1217 01:27:21.399 --> 01:27:27.319 had a very frightening run into it one night out of the tree stand, 1218 01:27:27.760 --> 01:27:30.960 and we were able to get a pretty good idea of its hype because it 1219 01:27:31.039 --> 01:27:33.760 had moved a limb when he was up in the tree stand. It was 1220 01:27:33.800 --> 01:27:38.479 nearly to his knees while he was up on a tree stand, and he 1221 01:27:38.680 --> 01:27:41.279 had moved this limb, and he told me where its head was, and 1222 01:27:41.399 --> 01:27:43.960 the next day we were able to go out there and measure that to get 1223 01:27:44.000 --> 01:27:46.359 a pretty close idea of you know, figured that was between seven and a 1224 01:27:46.399 --> 01:27:51.640 half day foot tall. But what the guy kept impressing upon me bobos like 1225 01:27:51.800 --> 01:27:55.840 we've all heard. He said, dude, it wasn't that it was just 1226 01:27:56.000 --> 01:27:59.359 because it was that freaking tall, Because it was tall, but he says, 1227 01:27:59.439 --> 01:28:01.520 it was the size of the thing. It was enormous. He was 1228 01:28:01.560 --> 01:28:05.520 shooken up about that for days because he had seen the other ones, the 1229 01:28:05.640 --> 01:28:09.520 females, I want to say, the females, the smaller ones. He 1230 01:28:09.600 --> 01:28:14.039 had seen the other ones for the prior few years, and he had never 1231 01:28:14.159 --> 01:28:16.800 really seen the male, the big male. The male wasn't around that often 1232 01:28:17.359 --> 01:28:21.600 from what we understood. From what we could surmise from the situation was this 1233 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:26.079 was a family group. But the females and the young one seemed to be 1234 01:28:26.199 --> 01:28:30.359 around there most often, and the male would come and go. You'd only 1235 01:28:30.439 --> 01:28:33.159 see him every you know, maybe every couple of months. He might come 1236 01:28:33.199 --> 01:28:38.119 around for a very short period of time and he was gone again. And 1237 01:28:38.279 --> 01:28:41.439 do you know knocks when the male was around. Did you notice any different 1238 01:28:42.159 --> 01:28:45.560 vocalizations or do is you get any patterns at all, like as far as 1239 01:28:45.680 --> 01:28:48.840 vocals or knocks you know? In fact, there I found that unusual. 1240 01:28:48.960 --> 01:28:53.640 I think that because of the proximity of all the homes and being that it 1241 01:28:53.800 --> 01:28:58.560 was a rural setting and that literally homes were on all these you know, 1242 01:28:58.680 --> 01:29:03.079 hollow ridges and down these roads, and that they these houses literally dropped back 1243 01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:10.039 into these hollows. I think that in terms of vocalizations, I don't think 1244 01:29:10.079 --> 01:29:14.600 they vocalized loudly or very much, or there was a few occasions we heard 1245 01:29:14.680 --> 01:29:18.840 wood knox or wood knock types of sounds, but rarely and we did associate 1246 01:29:18.960 --> 01:29:24.760 that with them. But when it came to vocalizations, these weren't very vocal. 1247 01:29:25.560 --> 01:29:29.119 They weren't very vocal there. They just did not make a lot of 1248 01:29:29.319 --> 01:29:32.800 screams or noises. Now having said that, I did get a fantastic series 1249 01:29:32.880 --> 01:29:36.800 of screams from one of them one evening on their property. I recorded this 1250 01:29:38.039 --> 01:29:41.720 on a new digital SD card media and when I went to review it, 1251 01:29:41.800 --> 01:29:44.720 I thought, oh, this is the most awesome. It was literally that 1252 01:29:44.960 --> 01:29:50.319 woman screaming crazy, streaky, you know, crazy, you know, aha, 1253 01:29:51.479 --> 01:29:55.680 you know that kind of stuff. And when I went to Dreddit pulled 1254 01:29:55.720 --> 01:29:59.000 it off recorder later that night, it was corrupted and I lost it all. 1255 01:30:00.239 --> 01:30:04.000 But but yeah, it was so I'll tell you what. I was 1256 01:30:04.079 --> 01:30:08.159 just one of the many things that just make you just go, damn it, 1257 01:30:08.319 --> 01:30:13.199 I just want to give up. But often no, we hardly ever 1258 01:30:13.319 --> 01:30:16.399 heard them, and we didn't get much in terms of wood knocks around there. 1259 01:30:16.960 --> 01:30:20.760 But the big mail we knew it was around from time to time because 1260 01:30:20.800 --> 01:30:25.000 either she said she would get a glimpse of it or see it. The 1261 01:30:25.119 --> 01:30:28.880 husband had his run in with with it one night and it scared him so 1262 01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:30.479 bad he didn't want to go back into the woods for a long time, 1263 01:30:31.159 --> 01:30:35.359 because again he tried to tell me he impressed upon me. I never saw, 1264 01:30:35.439 --> 01:30:39.840 but he said the size of this thing was what scared him so bad. 1265 01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:43.479 He said, that thing's walking around the woods out there, and it's 1266 01:30:43.760 --> 01:30:45.720 it's just it's just not right. It's what he said, it's just not 1267 01:30:45.960 --> 01:30:49.920 right. He illumined that face with a headlamp that he was wearing that night 1268 01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:53.520 when he was sitting in the tree stand trying to get footage, and the 1269 01:30:53.600 --> 01:30:56.159 thing came up to the tree stand and pulled the branch down, and he 1270 01:30:56.239 --> 01:30:59.600 heard it move the branch, and we looked over. He saw this thing 1271 01:30:59.680 --> 01:31:03.119 looking right at him, and he said that the head there was a human 1272 01:31:03.239 --> 01:31:09.279 face, high cheekbones like a like a Native American kind of but it had 1273 01:31:09.800 --> 01:31:13.800 almost like a semi beard, so it had a male figure like, you 1274 01:31:13.880 --> 01:31:16.279 know, feature like a beard, but not full beard like a man, 1275 01:31:16.399 --> 01:31:21.439 but you know, the sides and the mustache kind of thing. And then 1276 01:31:21.479 --> 01:31:26.439 it had had a clear forehead, no hair in the forehead, but then 1277 01:31:26.520 --> 01:31:29.680 it had hair, you know, like a like a human in many ways, 1278 01:31:29.800 --> 01:31:33.600 shaggy long hair. He said, this thing had teeth and when he 1279 01:31:33.720 --> 01:31:38.800 hit it with the with the headlamp of his uh, you know, his 1280 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:43.039 life with a headlamp. He said that this thing kind of brought one of 1281 01:31:43.079 --> 01:31:45.960 its hands up to kind of shield its eyes and it and it bared its 1282 01:31:46.000 --> 01:31:51.800 teeth, and he said that it had very prominent canines. Kind of like 1283 01:31:51.920 --> 01:31:55.520 that facial footage, you can see a little bit of a canine in there, 1284 01:31:55.960 --> 01:32:00.279 but he said that the canines were very prominent. So that's still out 1285 01:32:00.319 --> 01:32:02.199 to him. But he said, he said, Dennis, he gets saying, 1286 01:32:02.239 --> 01:32:05.439 Dennis, it's the size of the thing. He said, it was 1287 01:32:05.720 --> 01:32:10.600 the size of a five gallon bucket. It was a head that was four 1288 01:32:10.680 --> 01:32:13.840 or five times the size of any human he's ever seen. It was just 1289 01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:17.359 enormous. And he said the shoulders just they look to be like four foot 1290 01:32:17.399 --> 01:32:21.239 wide, you know, just incredibly massive. And it scared him the desk 1291 01:32:21.239 --> 01:32:25.560 because he said that up to that point he had been kind of dealing with 1292 01:32:25.640 --> 01:32:30.600 the others and they were more lined or proportion to a large person, but 1293 01:32:30.720 --> 01:32:34.680 this thing was well beyond that. Okay, So Dennis, like you had 1294 01:32:35.960 --> 01:32:40.640 a lot, you had excitings. You said you were around these things pretty 1295 01:32:40.760 --> 01:32:43.199 often. I'd say you know, more than a ravage bear, or maybe 1296 01:32:43.239 --> 01:32:45.359 not more than a bear, but you know what I mean, what sort 1297 01:32:45.399 --> 01:32:50.159 of behaviors like, like, what sort of interesting behaviors besides oh they can 1298 01:32:50.199 --> 01:32:54.520 see in the dark perfectly or they're really quiet. What sort of things did 1299 01:32:54.600 --> 01:33:00.359 you observe them doing or have done? What can you tell us what you 1300 01:33:00.520 --> 01:33:03.039 saw there and what you learned from that? Well, that's a tough that's 1301 01:33:03.079 --> 01:33:08.800 good question. I think that one thing I learned is that you have to 1302 01:33:08.880 --> 01:33:15.479 be very persistent and predictable if you want. For me, the only way 1303 01:33:15.560 --> 01:33:19.640 to really approach this research anymore is it would be great to find out a 1304 01:33:19.760 --> 01:33:24.640 situation like theirs, where you have people that are kind of accustomed to and 1305 01:33:24.760 --> 01:33:28.079 if you're in that situation, and I'm sure there's people that's probably been doing 1306 01:33:28.159 --> 01:33:31.399 this much longer than me, and probably far more matters or more advanced, 1307 01:33:31.760 --> 01:33:38.399 probably working maybe working with even a group that's more you know, used to 1308 01:33:38.920 --> 01:33:42.920 being around people. But to me, that's really the ideal situation in order 1309 01:33:42.960 --> 01:33:46.560 for us to understand these things is to be it is to be in a 1310 01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:53.359 situation like that where you can have some semblance of predictability about these things. 1311 01:33:53.880 --> 01:33:56.159 In other words, you can say, hey, we know that they're going 1312 01:33:56.239 --> 01:33:59.680 to be around here every so many days or every few weeks. We don't 1313 01:33:59.680 --> 01:34:01.520 know exactly with time, but if they're going to be around here, how 1314 01:34:01.600 --> 01:34:05.640 can I be prepared to maybe have an interaction with them? And I think 1315 01:34:05.680 --> 01:34:10.560 that's a big part of that is just be a very predictable human being, 1316 01:34:11.439 --> 01:34:15.600 be very non threatening, be pretty open, and don't show fear and be 1317 01:34:15.720 --> 01:34:18.319 afraid. I mean, that was something that was very difficult for me to 1318 01:34:18.399 --> 01:34:23.159 do. But I kept a go for face all the time and I did 1319 01:34:23.239 --> 01:34:29.359 not, you know, show fear and try to act like I was afraid 1320 01:34:29.399 --> 01:34:31.479 of these things. I tried to approach, you know, areas they were 1321 01:34:31.560 --> 01:34:38.520 in and sit down quietly and be patient and just wait. And that was 1322 01:34:38.600 --> 01:34:42.520 a big thing for me. I think I had a lot of interactions because 1323 01:34:42.560 --> 01:34:46.279 I would just sit quietly and wait for them to come to me or to 1324 01:34:47.000 --> 01:34:50.560 you know. You know you guys, I'm sure you've experienced this. You 1325 01:34:50.680 --> 01:34:54.600 sit in the spot, you have a feeling they're around, until you see 1326 01:34:54.920 --> 01:35:00.800 patiently and eventually you'll hear them come closer or or they will do things that 1327 01:35:01.560 --> 01:35:05.199 in other words, they kind of kee you in that they're they're around there. 1328 01:35:05.239 --> 01:35:10.960 They'll make noises deliberately so you know that you know they're they're kind of 1329 01:35:11.000 --> 01:35:14.520 telling you that they're there. So if you can reach those kind of milestones, 1330 01:35:14.560 --> 01:35:17.800 I think that that's a pretty good, pretty good place to be in 1331 01:35:17.880 --> 01:35:24.399 this research because you're kind of getting a certain level of trust. Maybe that's 1332 01:35:24.479 --> 01:35:27.880 what I'm looking for. But the big thing is just be predictable and be 1333 01:35:27.960 --> 01:35:31.840 it somebody that you you can demonstrate that you're not someone to be feared or 1334 01:35:32.039 --> 01:35:36.560 be afraid of, you know, by them, because you're very predictable. 1335 01:35:36.680 --> 01:35:41.520 You're not going to do anything that will frighten them, you know, to 1336 01:35:41.640 --> 01:35:44.600 be threatening to them. You know, a number of years ago I came 1337 01:35:44.640 --> 01:35:45.880 to you for some advice. I don't know if you remember or not, 1338 01:35:46.479 --> 01:35:49.880 but I had a spot up in Mounta Hood here that they were they seem 1339 01:35:49.960 --> 01:35:54.159 to be at rather you know, rather often. What you said to me, 1340 01:35:54.239 --> 01:35:57.760 and you said it so concisely. It's like you need to become a 1341 01:35:57.920 --> 01:36:04.159 predictable feature in their environment exactly. And that's the way I try to approach 1342 01:36:04.880 --> 01:36:09.159 any new areas as well. You know, I'm sorry, Cliff, what 1343 01:36:09.279 --> 01:36:12.960 was the other question, Oh, I want to know about any unusual behaviors 1344 01:36:13.000 --> 01:36:16.119 that you might have observed out there that maybe aren't widely known. I think 1345 01:36:16.159 --> 01:36:19.439 I remember one time I was talking to you years ago and you mentioned something 1346 01:36:19.479 --> 01:36:24.560 about you finding areas where they had cleared the forest debris away from the forest 1347 01:36:24.640 --> 01:36:28.520 floor. Am I remembering that correctly? Or yeah, yes, exactly. 1348 01:36:28.800 --> 01:36:33.920 Actually documented at several times places that she had seen them sleeping. Like I 1349 01:36:34.039 --> 01:36:39.439 mentioned earlier, the footage where you're kind of in a semi fetal or fetal 1350 01:36:39.479 --> 01:36:44.800 position. We've gone back later and found that that area that they were bedded 1351 01:36:44.880 --> 01:36:51.680 down in was cleared of debris. Okay, all the leaves and the glitter 1352 01:36:51.840 --> 01:36:58.560 and the and the grass, it's cleared away. So there's they're directly on 1353 01:36:58.720 --> 01:37:01.479 the soil, which I found odd, and even in the snow. I 1354 01:37:01.560 --> 01:37:05.960 came across beds several times. In fact, one of them very early on 1355 01:37:06.119 --> 01:37:10.560 the project, within the first two months of the project. Cliff I was 1356 01:37:11.359 --> 01:37:16.000 at the location and came across tracks that were in the cedars. This was 1357 01:37:16.079 --> 01:37:20.920 in December of that first year, and these tracked them through the cedars, 1358 01:37:21.600 --> 01:37:26.159 and then there was a bedding area that was underneath one of the theaters, 1359 01:37:26.239 --> 01:37:28.880 you know, one of the areas that didn't have as much snow, and 1360 01:37:28.960 --> 01:37:31.960 it had cleared all the snow out and was betted down and all the duff, 1361 01:37:32.000 --> 01:37:36.199 all the litter and the needles in the in the leaves and was bedded 1362 01:37:36.199 --> 01:37:41.319 straight on the soil. And I found that was interesting. I discovered that 1363 01:37:41.439 --> 01:37:45.000 several times during that project. And another interesting thing, Cliff, I'm sure 1364 01:37:45.039 --> 01:37:47.920 you've heard of this. You remember Kathy Mosquith I believe, was the one 1365 01:37:47.960 --> 01:37:54.399 that actually brought to light somebody had found what they call it cedar ball. 1366 01:37:55.319 --> 01:37:59.079 So, oh, yeah, I've seen pictures of that, right, Yeah. 1367 01:37:59.279 --> 01:38:02.560 We discovered something very similar to that along one of the game trails out 1368 01:38:02.600 --> 01:38:09.159 there somewhere in the middle of the project, and it was basically there was 1369 01:38:09.199 --> 01:38:12.720 a lot of cedar trees with that very fine bark you can literally peel it 1370 01:38:12.840 --> 01:38:16.560 right, and that bark would come off in strips, and we found a 1371 01:38:17.000 --> 01:38:21.920 degraded it looked to me like something very similar to Kaffy had, but it 1372 01:38:23.079 --> 01:38:26.560 was like a ball and it was stuffed with leaves basically, with a lot 1373 01:38:26.640 --> 01:38:30.760 of like oak and what I forget the other type of tree around there, 1374 01:38:30.800 --> 01:38:36.680 but dessiduous trees leaves were inside of this crudely woven it was about the size 1375 01:38:36.720 --> 01:38:41.520 of a cantilope. I want to say, to this day, I can't 1376 01:38:41.560 --> 01:38:45.000 tell you what, where, or why or how. I don't even know 1377 01:38:45.039 --> 01:38:46.520 if it was a big foot that made it, but it was. It 1378 01:38:46.760 --> 01:38:53.039 was very reminiscent of that when I saw that. So another odd thing there 1379 01:38:53.279 --> 01:38:58.199 that you know, I have to say, really struck out on my memory. 1380 01:38:58.960 --> 01:39:01.680 This conversation could literally go on, I think, for another three hours, 1381 01:39:02.159 --> 01:39:05.760 and we haven't spoken anything and won't because we don't have time. But 1382 01:39:05.840 --> 01:39:13.600 we haven't. We haven't even spoken about your your big footing adventures elsewhere. 1383 01:39:14.239 --> 01:39:19.119 I honesty clip after after the whole fiasco with Melba in the Ericson project. 1384 01:39:19.520 --> 01:39:23.680 Adrian is a good man. You know. I worked with that man for 1385 01:39:23.800 --> 01:39:29.720 five years. He had true, pure intentions on trying to do this because 1386 01:39:29.760 --> 01:39:32.279 you know, he was trying to answer his own questions, and you know, 1387 01:39:32.359 --> 01:39:36.880 he had experiences growing up in Canada, he had run in several times 1388 01:39:36.920 --> 01:39:41.399 with these creatures, and he's one of these people like many of us, 1389 01:39:41.439 --> 01:39:45.640 who had to know you know, he was determined to come about you know 1390 01:39:45.840 --> 01:39:50.359 answers to this mystery, and he couldn't do it. He couldn't come down 1391 01:39:50.439 --> 01:39:53.960 himself and do it, and he had to have us doing it because he 1392 01:39:54.000 --> 01:39:57.119 had to run that business. So he was pretty well tied to that. 1393 01:39:57.760 --> 01:40:00.520 But his intentions were right. He was he he was, you know, 1394 01:40:00.640 --> 01:40:04.760 he did all he could. Some people have kind of drug him through the 1395 01:40:04.840 --> 01:40:09.159 mud a little bit, but Adrian, really his intentions was pure. He 1396 01:40:09.279 --> 01:40:14.079 wanted to help solve this mystery with this project, and the way things turned 1397 01:40:14.079 --> 01:40:16.279 out in the end, with the couple we were working with, and poor 1398 01:40:16.399 --> 01:40:21.000 Leela the things that she had to go through, and and other people that 1399 01:40:21.159 --> 01:40:28.479 we dealt with their good and bad, mostly difficulties. I just have got 1400 01:40:28.600 --> 01:40:32.159 a resentment for the entire not people, because I know a lot of great 1401 01:40:32.199 --> 01:40:36.920 people in big putting, but I just jaded about the whole thing. Yeah 1402 01:40:38.039 --> 01:40:41.760 here you yah, I have a blood sample I have. We've worked very 1403 01:40:41.840 --> 01:40:45.560 hard on this project. We thought, hey, we didn't never once didn't 1404 01:40:45.600 --> 01:40:46.880 think that we were going to be the ones to break the soap, And 1405 01:40:47.520 --> 01:40:51.800 we're just trying to help move the ball down the line a little bit more, 1406 01:40:51.880 --> 01:40:56.279 to help connect some dots. So other people can kind of put into 1407 01:40:56.520 --> 01:41:00.279 right. But along the way the difficulties that we had to over and not 1408 01:41:00.439 --> 01:41:03.159 overcome. But I mean we had a lot of difficulty we couldn't overcome. 1409 01:41:03.239 --> 01:41:08.600 We just the problems that were constantly coming up. You know, no matter 1410 01:41:08.720 --> 01:41:14.199 what we do as investigators and researchers were not gonna really affect anything until the 1411 01:41:14.279 --> 01:41:18.000 time is right. But I honestly just didn't feel like the time is right. 1412 01:41:18.119 --> 01:41:24.319 Then. Too many things you know, came up that just you know, 1413 01:41:24.560 --> 01:41:28.079 snatched defeat from the jaws of victory, and I became jaded about the 1414 01:41:28.119 --> 01:41:29.880 whole thing, and I just thought, well, if we can't do it 1415 01:41:30.000 --> 01:41:33.760 now with what we have other than having a body, a living specimen or 1416 01:41:33.800 --> 01:41:36.880 a body, there's really no way to do this and move that forward. 1417 01:41:38.640 --> 01:41:44.000 And you know, our whole intentions with the Erickson project was was really the 1418 01:41:44.119 --> 01:41:46.960 hopefully set up a location that we could bring people in, people like you 1419 01:41:47.359 --> 01:41:56.840 and Bobo and John and Jeff Meldrum and biologists and anthropologists and people who could 1420 01:41:57.479 --> 01:42:00.800 you know, have some bit of interet action with these things. Because we 1421 01:42:00.880 --> 01:42:04.520 saw potential in that location, and hey, if there's any place that we 1422 01:42:04.640 --> 01:42:09.760 have a good chance of people getting to see these things and maybe witness a 1423 01:42:09.800 --> 01:42:13.960 little bit of their behavior and verify that these things actually exist and maybe get 1424 01:42:14.359 --> 01:42:17.720 some biological evidence out of them. This might be the spot. But you 1425 01:42:17.800 --> 01:42:21.039 know, everything just went to right with that whole project. Everything that could 1426 01:42:21.079 --> 01:42:26.880 go wrong went wrong, and every everybody and all their problems and things that 1427 01:42:27.319 --> 01:42:30.520 you know, humans created more problems than we ever needed to have on that 1428 01:42:30.640 --> 01:42:32.920 project, which really is what kind of destroyed the whole thing. It was 1429 01:42:33.039 --> 01:42:40.560 just just human habits, human bad I don't want to get into the details, 1430 01:42:40.640 --> 01:42:44.199 but I'm just saying it was people screwed it up. It wasn't really 1431 01:42:44.279 --> 01:42:47.960 the creatures. Then one final question, do you think that the body of 1432 01:42:48.039 --> 01:42:54.159 evidence, like the footage, the reports, the footprints, all that stuff, 1433 01:42:54.439 --> 01:42:58.239 do you think it'll ever be made public for everyone to you know, 1434 01:42:59.079 --> 01:43:01.760 to check out for the You know, it's up to Adrian, really, 1435 01:43:02.000 --> 01:43:05.560 I am. I've been under an NDA for a long time and he's given 1436 01:43:05.560 --> 01:43:09.079 me a lot of liberty to talk about it. But I think it's really 1437 01:43:09.159 --> 01:43:13.199 up to him. He kind of he's like me. He just threw his 1438 01:43:13.319 --> 01:43:17.199 hands up in the end after the whole problem with the DNA and melbook and 1439 01:43:17.319 --> 01:43:21.239 the paper and everything else, and he kind of just gave up on it 1440 01:43:21.359 --> 01:43:24.720 all. And well, that's the thing, you know, That's what I 1441 01:43:24.800 --> 01:43:28.000 think. That's a lot of the reason that Bobo and I were frankly kind 1442 01:43:28.039 --> 01:43:30.359 of, you know, harassing you for a while to get on the show, 1443 01:43:30.159 --> 01:43:33.640 because at the end of the day, Bobo and I both know you. 1444 01:43:33.800 --> 01:43:36.600 We both know Leela, I don't I don't know Adriene, I don't 1445 01:43:36.600 --> 01:43:40.079 know the people of the property owners. I don't know anybody else except for 1446 01:43:40.199 --> 01:43:43.159 you two, and you know, Moneymaker and a few other people, but 1447 01:43:43.239 --> 01:43:45.399 you guys were the main folks there. You know, you and Laila, 1448 01:43:45.720 --> 01:43:47.399 and I know both of you. I'd like both you, and I trust 1449 01:43:47.479 --> 01:43:51.479 both of you. You know you You've shown your quality, so if you 1450 01:43:51.640 --> 01:43:56.720 say it, I believe that's the truth that as you see it. And 1451 01:43:56.880 --> 01:44:00.199 that's why I think it's so important that you came on the show today and 1452 01:44:00.399 --> 01:44:03.159 uh and told us your version of it to the best of your you know, 1453 01:44:03.439 --> 01:44:08.600 the best your ability from your perspective, this is the truth. Because 1454 01:44:09.359 --> 01:44:12.720 I know you well enough that I'm not going to question anything you tell me 1455 01:44:13.159 --> 01:44:15.319 because I trust you. You're You're a man of integrity and honesty and a 1456 01:44:15.359 --> 01:44:20.079 good observer. No one, no one, uh no, no reason to 1457 01:44:20.199 --> 01:44:23.399 lie. I mean, there just doesn't make any sense, you know. 1458 01:44:24.520 --> 01:44:28.359 So having you coming on today and setting the record as straight as it can 1459 01:44:28.439 --> 01:44:30.720 be from one man's perspective, I think is an important thing that you've done. 1460 01:44:30.760 --> 01:44:33.840 So thank you very much. Yeah, thank you guys. I appreciate 1461 01:44:33.920 --> 01:44:36.760 you giving me a chance to tell a little bit more about, you know, 1462 01:44:36.960 --> 01:44:40.760 my side. Like I said, ever reluctant to do it anymore. 1463 01:44:40.840 --> 01:44:44.560 I just and I'm trying to, you know, I'm occupied with other things 1464 01:44:44.600 --> 01:44:47.399 in life. But I definitely appreciate the chance to uh, you know, 1465 01:44:47.800 --> 01:44:50.640 talk with you guys about it because we never really have talked in depth about 1466 01:44:50.680 --> 01:44:54.279 it. It was really good hearing from you again, man, I mean 1467 01:44:54.319 --> 01:44:58.119 it's been too long. Thanks a lot again for coming on and all right, 1468 01:44:58.840 --> 01:45:02.159 they bull will take care of Thank you so much. Yeah, good 1469 01:45:02.239 --> 01:45:05.119 talking to you both, you guys, and appreciate it. I guess I'll 1470 01:45:05.199 --> 01:45:09.680 let you go to bed, it's getting pretty late. And everyone else, 1471 01:45:09.760 --> 01:45:12.920 thanks for tuning in. We really appreciate it. Spread the word. If 1472 01:45:12.920 --> 01:45:15.199 you'd like what you're here, pass it on with some other people know, 1473 01:45:15.000 --> 01:45:24.600 and until the next time, keep it squatchy. Thanks for listening to this 1474 01:45:24.720 --> 01:45:28.560 week's episode of Bigfoot and Beyond. If you liked what you heard, please 1475 01:45:28.680 --> 01:45:32.039 rate and review us on iTunes, subscribe to Bigfoot and Beyond wherever you get 1476 01:45:32.079 --> 01:45:38.399 your podcasts, and follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Bigfoot and Beyond podcast. 1477 01:45:38.920 --> 01:45:42.760 You can find us on Twitter at Bigfoot and Beyond. That's an N 1478 01:45:42.920 --> 01:45:46.600 in the middle, and tweet us your thoughts and questions with the hashtag Bigfoot 1479 01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:47.800 and Beyond.