You're listening to the paranorl UK Radio network and this is six Degrees of John
Keel. Hello and welcome to the six Degrees of John Keel podcast. I'm
your host, Barbara and with me tonight is Steve Ward. Again. It's
been a while since I've talked with Steve, but tonight we're going to talk
about dog Man, like panthropy, wolfman, all sorts of strange sightings in
Great Britain and the United States, UH recent research. And we're also going
to look back at Linda Godfrey, who really I think is the one in
America who brought dog Man to everybody's consciousness. How you doing, Steve,
I'm doing really good. Excellent, excellent. You have Mothman looking over your
shoulder, making sure that you know I do. You're full of the strangeness.
There he is. If I hold my head just right, it looks
like I've got too intense. I know. That was the first thing I
saw when when you popped on and I was like, what does he have
on his head? So I'm glad to know it's just mothman, you know,
creeping on you. No, just a tute man, little moth man.
Well, excellent, So where do you want to start with this?
Because you know more about dog man and all of this stuff than I do.
Well, I guess I'll just start with uh. You know, I
was I heard Linda Godfrey on I think it was the Jeff Renshow this before
I think around the time of her public her first publication, The Beast of
Bray Road. I don't know it had been out yet or whatever, but
it's I think it must have. But that's what made me go and order
the book and check it out. And you know, she and i'd heard
a couple I've heard a couple of reports prior to that of something that they
weren't calling a dog man at that time, but other people had encountered something
like that. So I became fascinated by it, and I read I read
her book, the uh, the Beast of Bray Road, and you know,
it gives a basic recounting of the sightings of this upright caned and the
Elkhorn, Wisconsin area, especially along Bray Road. And I have been out
to Bray Road a couple of times and it's only about four and a half
miles long, and it was kind of hard to find, you know,
it's kind of it's a little bit east of Elkhorn, and it's just it's
pretty much there's not much in the way of woods there or anything. It's
pretty open. And now there's a guy who actually has a a dog man
carving in his front yard. That's more in more recent years. But people
are stopping on the road all the time and taking pictures, so it's it's
pretty cool now. He hasn't he claimed, he hasn't seen it himself.
He's actually a little bit further down the road than actually people see it.
But we can get into that later because that'll that'll we'll pick up with Lee
Hample's farm, who has had all kinds of activity there and his farm is
actually just a stone's throw from Bray Road. But at my first time meet
Linda was in two thousand and seven. I went to Troy Taylor's Weird Winter
event and the Cater No We'll see yeah to Cater Illinois, and it was
the idea was to have the Weird Book authors there, the two guys that
can't remember their name but started the Weird Books series from New Jersey. I
think we're there. Linda was there because she had written one on Michigan I
think she contributed to that, and there was some other other weird authors there
a lot of people. About half the people that signed up didn't show up
because it was a pretty bad They've been a pretty bad snowstorm. But I
traked down from Michigan when I was living there at the time anyway, and
it was a really it was a good event. And what I remember is
I was the one in the audience that asked her about updates about the Michigan
dog Man. She was talking about other things at the time. And the
gang from Ghostly Talk. I've been on their show a few times and they
actually lived a few suburbs from where I grew up, so we become good
friends. But they were up in the balcony, and later on I heard
about them talking about on their show they were having all kinds of weird activity
going on. This is supposed to be a haunted theater that we were at.
I don't remember the name of it, but there was weird stuff going
on up there on the bellky. Of course, I'm downstairs. I didn't
see anything. Nothing touched me, you know, nothing creepy happened. Never
does. And later on they had Linda Godfrey on and they were talking to
her, and she was wondering if it was something to do with her father,
because she said it was the anniversary of I can't remember if it was
his passing or his birthday, and she was wondering if she was going to
get some kind of a message or signed from him. So she wondered if
that disturbance was anything to do with him trying to make contact. So that
was that was kind of cool, but she was She signed her second book
was out at that time, called The Honey the American Werewolf, and so
she kindly signed that for me, and that's the first. So I saw
her several times after that at the Michigan peracn the Van Meet or Visitor Festival,
and there's this great picture. I had this shirt made up called braved
Bray Road, because actually I did Brave Bray Road. I parked in a
I went to Elkhorn. You can't park on Bray Road. They won't,
They'll come and tow you away. They don't put up with that nonsense.
So I parked in a in a parking lot about half a mile away from
the entrance of Bray Road, and I hiked it and I went I only
got about a I was I guess it was more like a Yeah, it
was about a half mile there, and I only I only went in about
a mile and a half and then turned back, So the whole whole ordeal
was only four miles. But you know, my legs were I had my
winter legs and I hadn't been exercising much, so they were a little rubbery
afterwards. But so that was kind of fun. It was a nice day,
and of course I didn't experience anything. But so I had this T
shirt made up braved Bray Road and there's this great picture of me standing next
to her husband Steve and Linda at the Van Meter Visitor Festival all together.
And then later on I made a couple of these posters that were sort of
tributes to the old Ufo Report magazine. I called it Ufo Review and with
a bunch of bogus articles, and it's very colorful and one is the theme
is the Mothman Festival and the other is the Van Meter Visitor Festival. And
so I have all kinds of names of friends around there making up bogus articles
and a lot of humor. I had Chad Lewis and Kevin Nelson looking like
men in black, and I had Joelina who was the librarian there that the
article was that she is the one that silenced the men in black rather than
the other way around. So a lot of a lot of fun stuff like
that. And a good friend of mine, Brandy she uh I made her
an archaeologist and she discovered giant skulls and dubuque, so that was that was
kind of funny too, had these big purple skulls on there. But the
best was I took that picture of me, Linda and Steve, and uh
I made it. I called it RAI Road Tours and uh you know,
putting on the dog with Linda Godfrey, And of course the idea was Steve
would be the bus driver. I'd be the guy that would count the number
of people that got off at bray rode him get back on. And Linda,
of course was a tour guide. So it was like dial A one
eight hundred. Girl, are you know anyway it was it was just a
lot of fun to do. And uh I had a copy for her,
but she didn't wasn't able to make that. Uh that one uh band meeter
uh conference and then one was shut down because of COVID, I think,
so I never got in contact with her again, but yeah, she was.
I just have really good memories of her. And I might mention that
book, Honey, the American Wearable. There's a really interesting passage in there.
Was there's a book called Wisconsin Mounds, and it deals with the effigy
mounds in southern Wisconsin. And she was looking at that. She had a
cluster map of these dog man sightings and that one area of Wisconsin, and
she noticed that they were clustering around certain types of effigy mounds, and most
notably panther mounds and water spirit mounds. Now, if you imagine a panther
mound, it's very very simple, you know, you got the if you
drew it an outline of the animal of a panther, you'd have the head,
a little bit for the ears and the legs and so forth, and
a short tail. The water spirit mounds seemed to be a little bit smaller,
but would characterize them were like a long, narrow tail. And for
some reason, she just seemed she found that they were these sightings were clustering
around these effigy mounds, and uh, you know, she hadn't really drawn
any conclusions from that, but she thought it was it was probably significant somehow.
I think, uh, I think if you go back, I think
there's a tradition that the uh something about these dog men or the or these
these spirits or whatever guarding the mounds or whatever. I'm not really well brused
on that, but uh so, uh yeah, that was That's what's what
started me off. Was, uh, you know, I've bought all her
books since then, and i haven't read all of them all the way through,
but I perused, and I've heard some of them on audible and so
forth, and I've been able to talk to her at length about some of
her ideas. So uh yeah, she really, uh she really, you
know. And it turned out that I'm sure you're probably foramiliar with dog man
encounters Radio Vic Coundiff, Right, there's just a lot of people that once
this was sort of out of the bag, people will said, well,
you know what, twenty years ago, I saw something really weird, and
it was almost like it was almost like it began all right to have a
big foot encounter. But man, if you saw an upright canaan along the
road, you just kept your mouth shut. Because that's just went way over
the way over the line. So and another thing that you know, as
you know, I recently talked to Paul Sinclair. I got to be on
his two hour stream a couple of weeks ago, and then he agreed to
be on my show. And this guy is just just fascinating. I mean,
you could you could actually just take a nap and let him talk because
he's just endlessly fascinating and you don't have to, you know, keep the
conversation going. He just does it. And he talks a lot lot about
he's more comfortable with the term werewolf, I think, and he talks a
lot about the Flixton werewolf and how far back it goes. There's like encounters
that go back apparently hundreds of years. So whatever this thing is seems to
be global, and Linda was getting reports from all over the world after a
while as well. But one thing that it seems to characterize this is the
feeling of evil, feeling of negativity, and I haven't really heard that with
bigfoot encounters and some other cryptid encounters. So there's something, you know,
I mean, I tend to think as a as Achillian that perhaps a lot
of these things are coming from the same soup, so to speak, you
just manifesting in different ways. But there seems to be some kind of a
distinction between dog man encounters and some other cryptids. Yeah, yeah, I
you know, I like I like what you say when when you say,
hey, Bigfoot's okay. You know, in the nineteen seventies there was all
these bigfoot sightings, and it got to be kind of okay to say that
because lots of people were saying, well, then maybe there's you know,
an unknown ape running around in the woods in North America. That's okay,
you know, but you know, as soon as the woo woo, people
like me come in and go, you know, the there's an awful lot
of descriptions of it. It's not all the same kind of look like a
species would generally be. You know, that's kind of kind of strange.
And and you know, footprints that start in the middle of a mud puddle
in a muddy field and then walk for like three yards and then disappear again
when it's uniformly muddy. That's pretty uh suspicious to me. But the boggle
threshold for for I guess normal people, not people like you and I is
we are not having wolf man in our backyard. We are not having that.
That is not to be talked about. We're not gonna We're not you
know, we'll we'll put up with bigfoot, but we're not gonna talk about
an upright cannid. And uh, that's that's just that's just no, we're
not gonna have it. So I find that really interesting that it seems that
the Boggle threshold for dog man has has loosened a little bit. People are
now going, well, you know, maybe there is something to it,
because so many people have seen it for so long. Right, it's taken
a while, but uh, and you know, and so many of these
encounters start out where they just thought it was a big, mangy dog and
it stands up on two legs. I mean, that's just got to be
freaky. Oh yeah, yeah. And then there's the what the berewolf people
have seen a couple of times something some kind of a weird I think Linda
did a report on one. I think it was in Michigan. This thing
came up. He called it a I think a what was it a?
I think he called it a berewolfers or something. It had bear in the
name, and it came and it stole a deer out of the back of
his truck and walked away with it. And like he's gonna go argue about
that. You know, you know what, I can shoot another deer.
I taged that deer and it's it's mine. But you know, I'm not
going to argue with mister berewolf. Yeah, he had to have been awfully
big to have a combination of those two in his name. And where do
these things come from? This big beast? I mean, it's an area
that was somewhat rural, but not completely. There was a lot it was.
It was a long fish lake, I think, and uh uh you
know, just an under one of these things where they show up and they
disappear. Yeah, they're very phis. They interact with the environment and just
then grabbed a deer and you know it wasn't seen again. So you know,
but uh and even you know, in another one of Linda's books,
I mean, just to compile confound this thing further. It was let's see
nineteen ninety four. The guy said he thought it was on Route eighty one,
Mike Moran and he's driving along just a two lane You probably know this
story, Oh, I remember his name. He sees the light going through
the woods and he thinks it's going to be some crazy dude. This is
night on a four wheeler or whatever, and he's cruising along and he's going
to come up to the road and there's a drop off of about eight or
six or eight feet, and he's wondering, how the heck he's going to
get this atv down that that you know, that dip and all of a
sudden, now I don't it's not clear if this thing was a ball,
just a ball of light, or if this creature was glowing, because it
was kind of glowing when it came across the road. But he saw a
dog man an upright pinted hit the road. Three steps, it was across
the road, and then it was gone. So we've heard a lot of
stories about balls of light transforming into something that goes kind of goes back to
Paul Devereaux in Earthlight Revelation, where he taught he coined the term proto entity
where and he gives a lot of examples of balls of light or something that
looks like a craft or whatever, but then it morphs into the entity or
whatever. It's like the vehicle or the the orb or whatever is inseparable from
the being somehow. Yeah. And there's even an old mothman encounter that's kind
of like that from Kent, England, almost three days to the Chase of
the Mallets and Scarberries down Route sixty two and November fifteenth. It was three
years before in sixty three, and these kids were coming back from a dance
and they saw this ball of light go down behind a grove of trees and
then go out, and then the light appeared again and then went out,
and then they saw this creature which was the closest thing to the point pleasant
mothman I've ever heard of, because it looked like it didn't have a head,
had bat like wings, and it kind of shuffled along like the mothman.
There's been so many other winged creatures or whatever that people want to dub
mothman, and I get very territorial. Sometimes it's like, hey, that's
not the point pleasant mothman, damn it, you know I know what that
is. Yeah, Yeah, I think the guy in the pecan tree down
in Texas comes close to the winged man thing. That family sitting on a
porch saw, but it didn't have the It had a head. You know,
it looked like a man with wings, but he was gray. And
he was spooky obviously because people shouldn't have wings and be flying around. Uh,
but I don't think he had the glowing eyes. I just think he
not. Yeah. Well, you know, maybe he didn't need it because
he just had been a ball of light. So you know, one of
the things that I really find fascinating about these upright canid beings is that almost
every culture has a story about shape shifting and humans shape shifting into animals,
and wolves are one of the most common ones, right, and psychologically,
I wonder if that's because humans have partnered with dogs so strongly. Like there
are people archaeologists and anthropologists who say that, you know, humanity may not
have ever really learned agriculture without dogs because we would have had no really good
way to round up herds of domesticated animals, right, and you know,
because I mean, people can run for a long time, but you know,
dogs are way better at that. And you know, and dogs came
from wolves, and we know that. I think even you know, even
after we'd had dogs for you know, quite some time, before we started
writing a lot of stuff down. I'm sure everybody realized that those dogs are
regionally were those wolves and humans were afraid of wolves. Now, I want
to know if if we were afraid of wolves because we lived closer to the
outside, you know, at one time, and that's what made us afraid
of them, because you know, zoologists will just tell you now that most
wolves will never approach a human, right. They are more afraid of us
than we are of them. So where did this image, this fearsome beast,
this horrifying creature come from? And I find that interesting if it's maybe
the dog is the is the the good cannid, and then the wolf is
the shadow being, just like humans have shadows, right, you know shadow
sides. Maybe that's the shadow side of a dog. Yeah, I don't
know. I was. I was fascinated by that when I was a kid.
I actually one of the few times I went to the library to research,
I got the Encyclopedia Britannica out and to learn about werewolves, and uh
it talked about how, uh, you know, sometimes people would wear some
kind of a belt or garment, and sometimes they would use some kind of
magical herbs or whatever, Uh wasn't quite the lawn chaining werewolf, you know.
The now, for the most part, when people are talking about these
these dog man creatures, are not talking about transformation. But Linda has a
couple every once in a while, she's got a story in there about somebody
that claims to have seen a transformation. Now that's one of those areas where
I kind of hit a wall, and I'm kind of like the uh,
the people that hit a wall with John Keel or some of them want things
accept you know, and I think, well, maybe maybe I'm not being
open enough. But that's that's a real tough one to accept. A physical
transformation. Of course, we have the lore of the skin Walker, which
is supposed to do that. And you wonder if that's uh, if it's
if it's a physical transformation, if it's more of a projection of something.
I don't know, but I yeah, I don't know. That's a that's
a good point. I don't know why. Uh, you know, Uh,
I guess there were other animals that they believe people could change into.
Yeah, but uh, but yeah, the wolf seemed to be the uh,
the prominent one, the big Yeah. Yeah, I don't necessarily well,
okay, so you went to the library to research where wolves. I
did the same thing. Yes, and I was faster say about it.
I know it says that were weird, really weird. But I remember reading
about the disease of like aanthropy, where it's a mental disease where you believe
that you have become a beast, usually a wolf, and I thought that
was so fascinating. And there are cases of men who would do these rituals
like a belt. You had an enchanted belt and you put it on it
was made of wolf skin and then you could turn into a wolf. But
there are cases of men who had like aanthropy or believed they had done these
rituals correctly, and they would go out and kill other people, and some
of them were cannibals. And this is all written up in European history.
So I'm so excited that I learned about this. I was spending the weekend
with my grandparents and we sit down to lunch. And Grandma made three hot
meals a day, so she was she was busy all the time. But
you know, we sit down and I said, Grandpa, guess what I
learned about And he said what? And I said, did you know there's
a disease called like canphropy And then dah dah, da da dada. I
started talking about how they, you know, attack people and there are these
woodcut illustrations and I described them and he was He just looked at me and
he went, can this this is not something to talk about while we eat?
And I said why, He's just just no. And it's not like
he was squeamish. She was a farmer, you know, I helped him
butcher animals. So I was kind of like, what's wrong with him?
And then I said, do you want to hear about porphyria? And he
said no, I don't. Well, there's there's another disease. There was
a case in uh oh, England. I can't can't pull out the details,
but that there was some kind of an ailment where people grow all kinds
of hair on their face and remember it's called yeah. And I think that
some of those some people were kind of locked away and seen every once in
a while, and that would give rise to the belief of the local werewolf
of some type. Yeah, that's a genetic disorder and h I think it
was. The King of Spain had a person in his retinue who was afflicted
with that. It was a woman and you know there are portraits painted of
her with this long hair on her face and hands, but she's wearing the
really beautiful court gown and he got for her a good marriage. Actually it
was the queen who did that. But yeah, it was a thing,
and so people people would see that and and think that that was a were
wolf. But as you said, Paul wil Sinclair was talking about tradition in
England of people having seen these these upright canids going back one hundred years,
hundreds of years, right. And he's got this great documentary called wolf Lands.
And I should say that he has four books out called Truth Proof,
The Truth That Leaves No Proof, four volumes, and one called Night People
I Believe, which is autobiographical. And I tell people avoid Amazon US and
UK. They've gone to third party pirates. I'm fine with capitalism, but
man, these guys are gouging death. If you go, you can.
I don't have the actual website, but if you google Paul Sinclair Books UK,
I think you'll find where you can buy his books direct from the UK.
The shipping might be a little pricey, but the price of the books
to be reasonable, and I've ordered the Fourth Truth, Proof and The Night
People because it wasn't didn't show it available in anything other than kindle here,
and I'd love to have the book in my hands, So those are on
the way. And I've also ordered a hard copy of the wolf Lands documentary,
but you can stream that for just a few bucks on Amazon US or
Amazon UK and it's absolutely I told Paul how well it was done. The
production values are amazing, the editing, the music composed for it, and
the way the narrative unfolds. He interviews several people that have had encounters with
this beast, whatever it is, and again Paul's more comfortable with calling it
a werewolf, and he takes you around to these people and he jumps back
and forth to the different witnesses, and it's with the purpose of showing the
patterns that are there, the similarities. And when you see these people talk
about their experiences, they were terrified, these are these are very sincere people,
and it's it's just so well done. It's so atmospheric. Uh,
It's it's like kind of like watching a horror movie, you know, a
well done horror movie. But it's it's based on something real and I hardly
recommend people watch it or or order it. And it's just again just amazingly
well put together. Yeah. Yeah, he's a good writer. I've read
truth Proof up to three and The Night People. I was dumb and read
The Night People first. It was super creepy and and it, boy was
it creepy. So you know, I was I took notes in it for
for my research, and you know, I was just kind of like,
oh my god, I'm afraid of the other ones. But they're much less.
I mean, they're still fascinating. They're about his encounters and investigations of
UFOs in Yorkshire and the surrounding areas up in the north of England. But
it isn't as scary. I mean, yeah, there's a couple of times
when you when it's scary and you're like, oh, well, okay,
yeah, maybe I shouldn't have read this at night. I'm dumb. But
he talks about the Flixton werewolf. He talks about large black panthers. He's
chronicled and even photographed a lot of strange lights orbs on the land and out
to sea, and these are not you know, uh lanterns Chinese lanterns or
or flares or anything like that. And it you're just really well told.
I mean you feel like you're you're there with him on the cliffs experiencing this.
Yeah. And then he in his books he uh he uh, he
has just a very nice approach with people, and he's made all kinds of
inroads. Uh. He can go to some of these uh captains that run
boats and he can look at their logs, you know, and and see
what they've gone out to perform a rescue or whatever. And he talks about
missing people out of it. It's like us of David Politis missing four one
one and this is North and East Yorkshire and uh, you know, get
concentrated in a relatively small area, but incredibly active and uh you know,
he's just he just has such a great way with him with himself. He's
just such a down to earth guy. Yeah, and uh, just very
very credible. Oh yeah, I think so too. And there are lights
on and in the water too and under the water. Well it talks about
a like a triangle with the light on each corner just under the water.
Yeah, and then he says it's so creepy, Yes, and he says
in one case, there were some kind of UFOs or whatever plunging into the
water, but it was so shadow there, even in high tide, it
didn't make any sense. You know, where were they going? Right,
why did they disappear? It's not that far down. Yeah, yeah,
I really like his books, and and he there are also lots of other
weird you know, there's some strange humanoids and and just all kinds of stuff
happening. And it's animal mutilations. Oh yes, they're sheep. A lot
a lot of sheep mutilations, and some seem to be surgical. You know
that people want to blame it on these large black panthers, but it doesn't
always make sense. And and oftentimes, just like other sometimes bigfoot reports where
animals are slaughtered, chickens or whatever, they're not eating, they're just slaughtered.
Yeah. Yeah, it's like like Keel when he talked about uh uh,
you know these things sort of coming into existence, sort of acting like
animals while they're here, and then melting away. Yeah. Yeah, Like
they are physical for a very short period of time, right, and they
leave physical traces, but then they just the traces just end that the footprints
end the you know, it doesn't make sense the animal, you know,
disappearances or mutilations stop right, And yeah, it's it's disturbing. All of
it's very disturbing. And Paul's very open. I mean a lot of times
you'll question, you know, how can this be a physical animal? You
know why because it kind of disappears, it goes away. Are we dealing
with something another type of reality that we step into or whatever. So he's
always asking these questions and trying to deal with the reality of the way these
things exist and manifest. Yeah, yeah, it's he's a very very thorough
researcher. And you're right. I like the way that he writes because it's
very immediate, so you can you can feel and and see. His descriptive
ability is very strong. I really really enjoy his work. So eventually I'm
going to have to have him on the on the podcast. Yeah, you'll
you'll, like I say, you can probably go just take a nap and
listen to it because he's he's just so good. You know, you don't
have to prompt him. You know, I had I wanted to stop him
every once in a while because I had a question, but uh, and
there's so there's a uh just so many he had this uh, this one
incident. I won't go into it too much. I want people to uh
listen to him tell it or read the book. But in the first book,
remember he has that weird he and his wife encounter that weird many bicycle.
Yep, yes, yep, yes. He said, you're bringing down
the light. Yeah, you're you're you're angering people or whatever. And so
I got Paul to tell that story toward the end of the interview and I
said, well, and this guy was so weird, and I said,
well, Paul, you are bringing down the light and you're making a lot
of people angry, you know, officialdom and even the average person that doesn't
want to deal with this. So it's kind of funny that this whoever this
dude was, he was right on the mark because that's what Paul has been
doing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I will definitely have him tell that
story because that was what I was thinking of when I said the strange humanoids
or whatever's you know. Although he did have the experience with his cousin and
the dude at the rock when he was a kid, and that was see
so creepy. Yeah, yeah, and then there was a classic man in
black encounter with I don't remember the guy's name, but a friend and colleague
of his. The guy had seen some kind of a UFO or light and
these dudes came to the door with no eyebrows ad dressed like classic men in
black, telling him he's got to stop his research. And I think,
and you know, every once in a while you come across you know who
Linde sigmund is. Yeah, Okay, More she came forward more recently with
her a mothman sighting from well, it was April of sixty seven, I
think. She said she was about sixteen, and she and her boyfriend were
sitting on the front of the hood of a car watching the stars. They
saw this orb show up, and then they saw another one. He decided,
I'm really abbreaviating this. He wanted to get the heck out of there.
And they're driving away and she's looking out out the window and she sees
this mothmanlike creature next to one of these lights. And the thing is that
she even had missing time. But the sort of the PostScript to all this
was the beginning of December. The same December sixty seven, when the bridge
collapsed in twenty fifteen, and that's coming up. The anniversary is coming up
in a few days. That's just taping. She was downtown Point Pleasant and
she saw this strange man standing outside a building and he was in classic,
you know, fedora black clothes. And she got closer she noticed his skin
had a weird pallor, had a weird coloring, and it was wearing sunglasses
at night. And then she looked down the street and there was another one
of these guys leaning them against a light pole. And I think, you
know it was And I said, when did you? When did this clique
as to what this was? It was wasn't until she read the mock Band
Prophecies by John Keel some time later that she thought, oh my god,
that's what I experienced. So it's weird because we tend to want to try
to explain these as you know, just government types or just some creep that
was hanging out, you know and causing trouble. But man, you know,
you get into some of these encounters and there's something just totally bizarre there
that's uh, it's almost incomprehensible. Yeah, yeah, the the the unearthly
pallor the lack of eyebrows, kind of weirdly plastic looking skin, like really
artificially smooth looking, you know, because you guys, you don't like,
you know, fix your pores and stuff. You just you just wash your
face and you go right. And I do the same thing. But you
know, most men don't have that perfectly smooth skin, you know. And
and that is something that I would notice immediately. I mean, they all
have that kind of uncanny Valley look. It's like, well they're they're like
a guy. They look like a guy, they look like a and then
they get too close and then you go, wait a minute, yeah something,
and then the the sometimes the movements the way that they just can't And
I even wondered, I think due to some of Nick Redford's I wondered if
some of these these characters were actually sent out by a faction of the government
to behave in strange ways to kind of throw people off. I mean,
the government does all kinds of bizarre tests and yah and schemes that they eventually
forget about or whatever. But I just wonder if they sent out maybe hundreds
of these clowns to act weird and figuring that some of them would be picked
up into the lore. But that doesn't explain everything, No, it doesn't.
It doesn't. So have there been any kind of men in black encounters
that go with dog man sightings or wolfman sightings? Oh, well that's a
good question, Not that I know of. They seem to have shown up
with some of the bigfoot reports. If you look at the you know,
Stan Gordon silent invasion, there were men that showed up and seeming to destroy
evidence. And too there was that crazy case where the guy uh took a
shot. Uh. Uh, he didn't actually shoot them, He was a
used tracer on the shelves over these bizarre looking bigfoots after seeing this strange craft
seemingly to land and uh, it was so crazy. The the uh the
local uh uh state state cop actually saw one of them in the dark and
uh later on standing his team came out. This guy had a weird spell
and collapsed and uh when he was growling and everything, and yeah, he
thought he was possessing it or something. But he had a he had a
vision of a man in a cloak and had all kinds of uh, had
all kinds of predictions, but he didn't remember any of it. I mean,
it's it's just more complicated than that. But you had strange lights,
you had these bigfoot creatures that that seemed to vanish. But then afterwards,
uh, they stand in his team wanted to put him under hypnosis, and
they thought, well, with that weird spell he had, maybe we better
just leave it alone for a while. And I think it was as much
as two years later they came to him and they said, would you mind
if we put you under hypnosis doing that? And he said, what do
you mean? You guys came back two weeks later and a man dressed like
an Air Force officer and a man in playing clothes implied apparently they were Stan's
team, and they put him under hypnosis, said we'll get back to you.
Of course they didn't, and he said they even showed him this,
this portfolio with photographs of bigfoot like creatures and UFOs at least this is what
he claimed, and wanted to know if what he saw looked like any of
these pictures. So, you know, I don't know what to make of
that, but that's sort of your you know, key you talk about the
man in black as a generic term, not necessarily, you know, in
dressed in the Black garbe But so, yeah, this is a well,
that's a good question. I wouldn't be surprised if there have been some.
But you know, there was that weird case and the Linda talks about in
the beginning of the Beasterbury Road where I think it's Lori and Drezzy was one
of the original witnesses that brought it to Linda's attention, And then she was
writing for the week was a little local newspaper, and she went to the
local sheriff and found out he had a file that said werewolf because he'd been
getting these reports. But she was talking to John andres No John, I
can't think it was last name, but he was at the animal control officer,
and she thought she had the impression that this thing was very negative or
whatever. He was skeptical about the whole thing, but they were talking about
they started talking about the possibility of some kind of cult being involved, and
then all of a sudden, several books flew out of the shelf in the
office and nobody had slammed the door or anything like that. So now here
you're just talking about it. I mean, how many times have we heard
uh things about Poultergeist phenomena or something. I mean, how many people that
saw the Mothman had an outbreak of Poultergeist phenomena afterwards? And how do we
reconcile this as a flesh and blood unknown creature? You know? So yeah,
it just it just seems like you dropped the pebble in the water and
these the the rings go out and they just they just keep going and they
touch all kinds of different things. Is this not nothing is static? You
know, it's it's uh, it's just there's so many uh uh now and
when you mentioned uh, you know, footprints appearing out in the middle of
nowhere. That brings me back to Lee Hample. Now, Lee Hample has
a farm. He was a uh well, degrees in mathematics and chemistry.
He taught mathematics for decades in Illinois. And this guy's a scientist. So
he got this farm over ten years ago and he's making hay. Sounds funny,
but he's enjoying his retirement and making a little money and keeping busy.
And some of his neighbors said, you know, there's a werewolf that lives
in those woods back there. He's looking at him like, what are you
talking about, and then several credible people were telling him what they had seen.
And then one night he saw it. He saw it in the dark,
and later on he realized he was missing about an hour of time.
So he started setting up track cameras. He's got thousands of photographs. I've
been able to speak at the Beast of Bray Road conference a couple of times.
And what they do is people that go to that Lee hamp will have
him over to his farm just for a small fee and for two hours he'll
show you photographs he's taken with trap cameras and all the bizarre things that are
going on. So you have I mean, he's got these footprints in one
case in the snow. They start in the middle of nowhere, and then
they split off almost like this thing divided like an amoeba into two of them,
or maybe his buddy was on his shoulders, you know, when they
manifested. But it's and then they disappear, and they're five toes, five
toes, a pad and a heel. And he says when he looks at
these tracks, he thinks there's maybe four or five different creatures because they're not
all exactly the same and whenever he tries to, I mean, he leaves.
These things act like animals. They eat bait, they eat roadkill.
He sets up cameras with the bait. The cameras don't function for the most
part. When they're there. He's gotten, like I think he's actually gotten
some pictures of them. He keeps a lot of these things close to his
vest, and that there are some where you could see part of like the
ear or whatever. I guess it could be Scooby Doo or something, but
I don't think so. But he's got something. But then he's got there's
some kind of technology or something going on. There's like there's drones in the
sky. There's things that look like they might be a portal, some kind
of energy ball or whatever. There just there are things that are almost incomprehensible
when you there was this one image where you see something that looks like a
black snake sort of suspended in the sky, but it's just oor cord or
something. And then he moves the over to the other side of the picture
and there is a kind of a boxy looking thing with balls on it or
wheels or something kind of suspended in the air, and you're trying to make
sense of this is something something bizarre going on. I don't know if it's
a place where the air is thin, so to speak, or if it's
a grand central station between dimensions. He had another another photograph of a classic
flying saucer, a black flying saucer zipping around a tree. You can tell
by the time stamp, but it was just like a matter of a few
seconds and it just like it appears, zips around and it's gone. He
has had now he was. He's let me use some of his images.
He put some of them on Coast to Coast am and he gave me he
was on my show and he liked the way it went. So he has
allowed me to use some of his photographs and presentations. But the ones I
don't have is he's had several road killed deer because of the highway he's on.
Well, he's pulled them on his property. He sets up a shraft
camera and it's night and you can see a missed show up with the time
stamp, and then the carcass is gone, no drag marks, no footprints.
And this has happened maybe a dozen times. It's just you know,
it's it's it's just mind blowing. And so, you know, I wonder
what I've tried to speculate as to what's going on. Is there really some
kind of other intelligence there? Are they? You know, if we think
about tulpas and monsters from the ID and and all that sort of thing.
You know, a wonder do these things create these constructs, these temporal beings.
Maybe they don't just happen and they're supposed to scare people away, you
know, now, if that's there, if that wild speculation is correct,
they might be all wet because people are flocking there to see these things,
so they're not really scaring people away, they're attracting them. But you know,
I just can't It's so hard to wrap my head around now. And
then I don't know, if you know the Bucks County guys, Eric Mentel
investigates, Okay, they were out there a couple of years ago along with
Ellen Collins, and it was Eric Mintel and Dominic Setel dominic As they were
sensitive and they were out there and at night and they they start to hear
this howling. You know, they've got it on on their YouTube video.
You hear this howling off to one side and then howling over here creepy as
hell. Now, I wouldn't be able to tell you an animal howl from
Marsupial, you know, I just wouldn't be able to do it. So
but they were saying eyeshine about six feet off the ground. They also be
prior to that, they actually saw a lightless guy they thought was a satellite,
and then all of a sudden zipped across the sky and then a mysts
started a form and the mysts have there. There's a photograph of Lee Hample
in the daylight. There's a mist surrounding him on the on the picture,
but he didn't see it when he was there, So, you know,
mister around that place, it could have been just basic atmospheric conditions. You
know, had rained earlier in the general area, so maybe that was it.
But they were really getting freaked out. And even even Eric, who
usually doesn't these things, don't bother them. So I asked Dominic on my
show. I said, Dominic, what were you feeling like out there being
the sensitive And he said, I felt like I was in a short tank
underwater holding the bait. And they decided they were going to get out of
there. They just they had enough and they weren't there very long. So
and the ironic thing is a week later, they're in the pine barrens,
or like five miles deep into the pine barrens with a couple of seasoned bigfoot
researchers and they're hearing things like whoops and knocking and all that sort of thing,
and Dominic felt like it was a day at the beach. He wasn't
freaking out at all. It was just very calm. There was something about
that experience that really really and I could hear things moving in the corn.
So well, corn's creepy anyway, that's right. Stephen King ruined corn for
everybody. Yes, that's right. But yeah, now does Lee have problems
with like poltergeist stuff on his farm or in his house? That's that's a
good question. Oh well, when when we were there with cars were parked
there, a friend of mine's car lights started a flash, you know,
like if you yeah, And even when she went to a motel that night,
she said they were still flashing into the wind. You know, it
was one of these motels with the door is right there that the car was
still the light, the lights were still flashing. And that happens to a
lot of cars in that area. So I haven't heard of anything like poltergeist
phenomena in his house. But he had had another another issue with missing time
at another time. And he's seen this thing two or three times and even
got a photograph of it from a distance. I mean you could see it
at arm's length. That doesn't look very high. But he has some kind
of a program that would tell you how tall this thing it was, and
it was six feet tall, and you could see it sometimes it was huntered
down on all fours and sometimes it was standing on two. This is in
broad daylight. So there's something truly bizarre going on there. But I said,
what I can't wrap my head around is this this incredible conjunction with apparently
some kind of technology, uh guide and there's some kind of an intelligence there
that is helping to cloak and hide these things from the cameras. Yeah,
and when and Eric said, when they were out there that night, the
camera's completely failed. They didn't take any pictures of them when they were out
there. Yeah. Yeah, they've had problems with that out at Skinwalker Ranch
too, right. Yeah, that you know cameras, they'll place cameras and
stick them down with duct tape and electrical tape and all kinds of stuff,
and it'll get ripped off way up, you know, twenty feet up a
pole that had its slippery and you know all of that kind of stuff.
And I mean there's a part of me is like, dudes, it's gonna
not let you take pictures. It's just not. It's not gonna. Now,
you should keep trying, but don't be surprised that you don't ever get
a picture. That's that classic case that I remember listening to Colin Kellerher and
George Knapp on the Coast to Coast a m with Art Bell years ago when
before even the book The Hunt for the skin Walker was written, and we
get these tantalizing stories about what was going on out there. And that was
when they had something like four or five cameras way up on the poles aimed
in an area that was a lot I had a lot of activity, and
one camera stayed operating. As I remember, they went back to look at
that footage and they could see some of the like the red dot on some
of the other cameras, and they could see when the red dot went out
when, but they couldn't couldn't get the resolution to see that they that they
had and it wasn't just an internal mechanical failure or electrical failure like you say
that the uh, the cables were ripped out, Yeah, physically ripped,
Yeah, violently. That's That's one of the things that that struck me about
it is that it was not just disconnected or the battery taken out or the
battery drained. No, it was torn. They were torn up. You
know, the the whatever they used to adhere it to the pole would get
ripped apart, and then pieces of the camera itself would be torn. And
so yeah, that's that's also an intimidation tactic. That suggests a direct intelligence
and consciousness that knows exactly what's going on. And they took a direct route
to stop it. Yeah, yeah, took a very direct route. And
you know, again that's an intimidation tactic. It also worked to terrorize the
humans who it apparently thought of as its enemy, right whatever it is.
Well, remember the incident where I guess this is again before I think Bigelow
still had a presence there, and it was before it might have even been
before Bigelow purchased the ranch. But because some of this had gotten out in
the newspaper, and there was a guy that made a pilgrimage there because he
felt at one with the ranch and he wanted to meditate. And so sherman,
the father and the son kind of looked at each other and said,
okay, have at it, you know. So he goes out there on
the field and he starts to meditate, and they see this thing that like
a blur, and later on they said it looked like the Predator effect from
the film Predator, and there's something. They couldn't really focus on it very
well, but it came out and it was like it was angry at what
this guy was doing. And all this guy is doing is meditating, thinking
good thoughts. But whatever this was didn't like it, and it freaked this
guy out and he couldn't wait to get off the property. But you know,
what the heck is that all about. My guess is that whatever it
is is based not in carbon. In other words, it's not always solid.
It's probably energy and it probably could sense that he was doing something that
changed the energy of its environment, and it was having none of that.
It was like, oh, no, how dare you? This is mine?
You think lofty thoughts, Yes, this is mine and you don't get
to come here and and mess with my stuff without my permission. You didn't
even ask, you know, so I'm going to run you off. Not
I'm not saying I would go and ask permission and be able to, you
know, sit and meditate. I wouldn't even think that that was a great
idea. But there are some non corporeal beings that are very very territorial,
like wolves and dogs. Just saying and the according to some of the reports,
and you don't know how how reliable some of them are. People have
seen orbs of light manifest into wolves there. And uh, of course there
was the story in the beginning of the hunt, the big walker, the
big beasts that attacked a some of their livestock and they kept firing at it.
It wasn't you know, it wasn't causing any problems, and it just
walked away. And of course the prince ended in the in the swamp somewhere.
Yeah, yeah, I mean they shot a piece of its flesh off,
but it didn't like stay. See that's the part where I'm like,
Okay, it's time to go now. I don't care that we just bought
this We're not staying here tonight. Nope, nope, nope, nope.
Another thing about the dog Man. A few years ago, I was at
a Michigan Uphon meeting and a gentleman that was a retired Wayne State University professor
talked about his research in Michigan into Bigfoot and UFOs, and he sounded a
lot like Jack. I think it's Jack Lepseratis that wrote Psychic Bigfoot and the
Sasquatch People or whatever. I mean, this was some pretty wild stuff,
but he's a really down to earth guy. But the thing that caught my
attention was he said, you know, we keep finding these large doglike footprints
in these high strangeness areas. And I thought, well, where have I
heard that before? Well, it turned out I heard it in a Mockman
prophecy. Yep. If John Keel talks about the and other articles, he
talks about dog like footprints around the U, the old Norse power plant,
and also where Tad Jones saw that bizarre retro UFO with the propeller on the
bottom, yep, and the weird yeah cross lanes, the weird guy beside
it with the weird shoe soles. You know, It's funny. The last
time I read that, I looked up the name of the man who had
first investigated it before Keel got there. He worked at the same place my
dad worked up at Union Carbides Tech Center, so my dad knew the guy.
And I thought about it, and I was like, you know,
that's that's the guy that that my dad said was like really down to earth
and sensible and not prone to flights of fancy. And he was. He
was also the only guy that my dad would say, hey, you know,
have you seen the weird lights over the other side of the valley because
my dad used to stand outside during lunch. He worked overnight, so lunch
was you know, deep dark, right, and you know, he'd tell
him about the weird lights that he was watching, and sometimes they'd watch together.
But yeah, that was I never have forgotten that there were those giant
dog prints and cross lanes. And then remember he consulted with Ivan Sanderson,
and Ivan Sanders said, yeah, we keep finding him, and you wish
there was a whole chapter devoted to that, or at least a couple of
pages. Yeah, but that's where it ends. Yeah, So I asked
Linda Godfrey about it and she said, yes. And the one thing she
did say, you said, you have to be really careful these days because
there are people out there faking dog man footprints, you know, is you
have to be you'd be careful, you're not taken in. But here you
have fort researchers separated by half a century, all telling us that we're finding
these large dog like footprints, whether or actually seeing the culprit or not,
in these highest rangers areas. So it's something that is connected to all this
and has been with us for quite some time. Yeah, yeah, and
it's I do also think that it's interesting that dogs tend to be afraid of
Bigfoot. You know, when we had the howling whatever it was in the
woods that sounded like Bigfoot almost twenty years ago, when we lived in another
part of Ohio, our dogs were terrified. They and they were not afraid
of anything, you know, they were they were big and strong and generally
not well. Okay, Naniko was afraid of people except for us, but
the other one feared nothing, and they hunkered down and just basically tried to
hide. So you know, of course I had to go out and bring
them in. But yeah, dogs generally either start barking crazily when there's some
kind of bigfoot activity or they're terrified. And then there's cases with bigfoot eating
dogs or mothman or something or UFOs. So although in some cases I've heard
where all of a sudden, the dogs get very quiet, yeah, when
when some bizarre stuff is going on. So, but but the either way,
I mean, that's still uh. People need to pay attention to the
the the responses of animals when these things are going on, because that's just
another validation that there's some kind of paranormal phenomena or something unexplained going on.
Yeah. Oh, I just got a book by Linda Zimmerman called Animal Reactions
to UFOs. It's a very small book. She it's a it's but it's
it basically is sort of a starter to get your ideas running in the direction
of, uh, how different animals have responded to UFO sightings or experiences and
and she's really interesting because she says, you know, animals are the perfect
UFO witnesses because they don't hallucinate the way people do. They don't lie,
you know, so there's there's no confabulation happening. You know, they're they're
essentially honest, and they have stronger senses than we do, so you know,
they can hear things above and below our ability to hear things. They
can see things in slightly different lighting conditions, and they they can apparently feel
vibrations better than we can. So I thought that was really interesting. And
that's you know, I'm about halfway through it right now. Yeah, I
didn't know. I'm familiar with some of her other books. She was on
my show a while back, and you know the Hudson Valley Sightings, Yeah,
yeah, specialty h Yeah. And a lot of the sightings in this
book are from New York, but she has plenty of others from elsewhere.
And she even has this one kind of odd sighting. There's a man who
worked a toll booth on a bridge on the night shift and is very boring.
And so there were you know, wild rabbits that you know, lived
off at the side of the road in the grass and they'd come out and
eat, and you know, he took to throwing them vegetables just to have
something to watch, you know, so they you know, eat the vegetables.
And one night he went to throw them their vegetables and they were laying
in the grass, stretched out and they were completely motionless, and he was
shocked. He thought somebody had killed them or you know, why they would
all die in the same you know, general area and stretched out like that
was also disturbing. So he came out of his toll booth and there he's
noticed a UFO. He noticed a light, a big light in the sky,
and he realized he couldn't move until it flew past. It flew over
him and left and he could move. And then the rabbits started, you
know, getting up and moving around again. But then they they were freaked
out. They wouldn't you know. He tried to give them their vegetables and
they were like, no way, man, We're done with this. We're
gonna go home. And I thought that was really an interesting one is that
they know that there are a couple of other UFO cases with wildlife that you
know that has something happened strangely, right, but you know, more than
one wildlife member, so you have a whole family of rabbits. That's that's
really interesting. Yeah, So I don't have there been have you have you
noticed or thought that there's been an uptick in dog man sidings? Or Wolfman
sightings, or does it just seem that way. I think it seems that
way because the floodgates have finally opened, people can finally talk about these things.
And you know, especially I haven't listened to a bit Kondiff on dog
Man Encounters Radio for a while, but you know, he does get recent
signings, but every once in a while he'll get the ones that go back
a couple decades or more, and it's something that they haven't told anybody because
they're just so bizarre. So I and I think that the same thing might
be true, you know, the the I think even John Keel thought the
flap idea was kind of an illusion. It just kind of depended on what
people were reporting and so forth. As you know, the mainstream media will,
you know, once in a while the report on a Stevensville or Phoenix
lights or O'Hare airport or whatever. But I for years I subscribed to the
UFO news clipping service at least you know now and then, and I inherited
a bunch of old ones from the sixties one time from a guy that got
out of it. And the thing you find out there is that these things
are going on all the time. It's just that they seldom get beyond the
local newspaper or just that the local area they reported. So I'm not you
know, I people do seem to ronicled. You know, there seemed to
be certain months, certain days of the week that where these things do seem
to tick up. And I found the research of a man named Ahmad John
Maludin that wrote, you know, the sixty sixty years of Suppressed Evidence the
Humanoid Reports, and he took Albert Rosales's database, and of course alert Rosales
has an amazing database of humanoid reports and others amongst us from one ad and
he's got about fifteen books out. It's probably due for another one. I
can't wait for the next one. But so that was the database that he
took, and he found that in focusing on humanoid reports, there were certain
times of the day that was more likely to have a human encounter than other
times of the day. At noon and lunchtime, forget it. You're probably
not going to see anybody. But between ten and two am, ten pm
at two am, if there's things going on in the area, it's not
just going to happen anywhere, you would have a better chance of having one
of these encounters. And the bizarre thing is that holds true, he says,
in every time zone, so as the world turns, the point of
entry or manifestation, whatever it is, is the same. And then he
talks about humanoid migrations, how eight to ten year cycles, how they seem
to show up somewhere in South America, then they move up to North America,
either the US or Canada, and then they move over to not on
any particular timescale, but they'll move over to Britain or the European continent,
and then Asia or Malaysia and then back again to South America. And that's
and there's been like these eight to ten year cycles for what four or five
times over the years that he's chronicled, and then just bizarre, and I
wonder, you know, remember the old days when you had Gray Barker and
Albert Bender talking about how people would be chronicling where UFOs were coming from,
and they were always thinking they were coming from Antarctica, and so they would
draw these lines and then the men in black would manifest or show up,
because that was a no no. Whether there was a guy from New Zealand
and John Stewart that supposedly had that experience, Albert Bender and so forth,
And I wonder, you know, it would kind of make sense. Maybe
there's nobody around there to see it, but maybe these things actually start Antarctica
and then move up to South America and then around so but either way,
you know, if there's a and I think I know you've been doing some
research into that to see that if those kinds of things are verified hold true,
So that'll be fascinating to see if they that research can be duplicated.
But that's just amazing so far. According to Chris, who's the one who's
doing all of the coding and working on the database itself, so far,
it's it's consistent with what the author found, so I think he's onto something
okay so far. Also, you can trace flap years by times when the
world itself geopolitically is having things happen, you know, having like when the
Berlin Wall fell and the Iron Curtain fell, there was a lot of UFOs,
and then there was of course a lot of UFO sightings in the forties
around World War Two. So you can you can follow those those times and
places and you will get an uptick in reports. Now I want. What
I want to do is, uh, take the UFO databases from New Fork,
movefon Flying Saucer Review and put those in with the humanoids and see what
we get. And we're also working on the USGS Map of Magnetic Anomalies,
just because that that so far if if what I'm seeing by examining it,
you know, visibly, you know, without a computer, but you know,
looking at it, just correlating places and dates and times, latitude and
longitude, I am seeing it correlation. Let's just put it that way.
I don't know that it's going to prove causation, but it's it's at least
something to show other people where to look and what to look at. Hopefully
that that's that's kind of beyond me. I'm glad you're doing that kind of
research. I've been reading an old Flying Saucer Review, one of their specials
where they talk about landings, and I was reading an article by Jacques Valet,
and I think, well, it's he had written his first two books,
Challenged the Science and an Enemy of a Phenomenon, but he hadn't written
Passport to Morgonia yet. Because Passport to Morgonia has all those landings at the
at the end, Well, that's what I'm reading. He's going through all
these landings, about two hundred of them, just very briefly mentioned in this
article. And it's fascinating because so many of them, the the the witness
encounters paralysis or has some kind of a a physical reaction where they feel some
kind of vibration or whatever. So I'm reading all these one after another,
and there's all this repetition of certain kinds of things, and you know,
sometimes that the paralysis occurs without you know anything. Oftentimes they aim something at
him and there's actually a beam or whatever. But there's so many different descriptions
of these beings and their behavior and their craft or whatever. I just you
know, I know, I mentioned John Keel about every five minutes, and
you know, there is a friend of mine, Jeff. He claims they
have a drinking game. They listen to one of my podcasts and they'll take
a drink every time I mentioned John Keele, which means they've passed out in
about five or six minutes. But yeah, it's just it's just fascinating that
you get these patterns, but then you don't other things don't jive you're not
getting you do get the silver coveralls and picking up of flowers. And there's
one guy spiking of rabbits. One encounter with a guy is paralyzed and these
guys run off with his rabbits. Yeah, he steals the rabbits out of
the hunch. I remember that. I was like, damn, what's up
with y'all? Don't be doing that. Yeah, you guys don't know how
to properly take care of these bunny rabbits. Maybe they're going to eat them.
I don't know. Uh. Yeah. And then there's the weird stories
where you know, they steal stockings off of women. You know, like
a woman is carrying her stockings in one hand because she walked across the creek,
so she took her shoes and stockings off, and then she put her
shoes on because you don't want to put stockings on wet legs because then they
stick and it doesn't work. So she's walking and she's minding her own business
picking flowers in the mountains of Italy, and these two weird guys in their
little egg shaped craft with their silver suits run over and stealer stockings. I
love the illustrations. Oh, I love that illustration. They look like they're
wearing football helmets from the nineteen twenties. That's exactly what they look like.
And then there's another case with another woman. She was putting laundry out and
they stole laundry. I'm like, is are y'all just creepers? What's happening?
And the only thing I can think of in that period of time is
they wanted everybody to think they were from space, but they had no idea
how to act like aliens. So they hadn't gotten their like, you know,
behavior down. They hadn't decided how they were going to be. It's
like, you know, it's like if they were fairies trying to convince people
they were from space, but they didn't really know, you know, how
to be. They didn't read enough science fiction or something, or they read
the wrong science fiction, almost like men in black, not knowing how to
act human. Yeah, don't they try to drink jello? You know?
What about the guy was that John Trasco where these guys are trying to capture
his dog and he says, we don't mean no harm. We just watch
your dog and we get out. I want my dog. You get your
own damn dog. And that's the thing again, there's something about dogs something.
Now, have there been dog men sighted with UFOs like Bigfoot in UFOs?
I think there have been, Like Paul Sinclair would tell you that,
there'll be a lot of strange lights or whatever in the same vicinity. Are
they connected, you know? Are they are they morphing into these creatures that
nobody has seen that there that that's been recorded, So it again, the
connection is possible, but maybe tenuous. I don't know. Yeah, although
Lee's case, you know, with his little weird mechanical in the hit LEAs
you know, or whatever, they are right there are. Yeah, there
is some kind of bizarre technology there. But and again that intelligence, I'm
assuming that the intelligence behind that is the same intelligence that is cloaking these things.
So that would be that would be really the only example I could probably
think of that where there seems to be some kind of a UFO phenomenon in
the same vicinity that these things are. Yeah. Yeah, And it's strange,
you know, because he is trying to get people from universities and scientists
interested in this area. I mean, you have a virtual laboratory there and
I was talking to him you know, Linda started writing about Lee's farm and
at least by Monsters among Us, maybe even before that. And he said
that they h he was perfectly happy to use his name in the book,
but they for some reason, the legal people wanted to give him a pseudonym.
So he's somebody Smith I think in Monsters among Us and Linda only talks
about some of the things that were going on there. But he said that
it was for Linda, it was like a kid in a candy store.
Here's just been writing about this and just a few miles away from where she's
living, here's this virtual laboratory over certain acres where this stuff is actually happening
that she can go and observe, you know. Yeah, and that's that
See, that's that's just perfect timing and placement of of you know, being
in the right place at the right time. I just one of the other
things that I I, you know, I noticed about the dog man and
the bigfoot thing. They're sort of in my mind entwined together because like you
said, you know, we're okay with bigfoot. Bigfoot we can kind of
deal with. But no, no, no, no walking dogs tall six
foot. No, we're not having that I still think that they're they're related
in a way. And I was like, you know, I wonder if
they're a different kind of Bigfoot that just has big ears and a tail or,
if it's you know, a variant just like this is a wilderness being
that that guards the wilderness, and so it's big and hairy. That's the
two things you have to have, and then the rest of it is just
you know, kind of regional window dressing or something. And I was fascinated
when I was looking at information about the the Native American mounds and I found
that there were some skeletons found in the mountains that had artificial extensions on their
teeth, so they had teeth ground down so that the bones of a wolf's
muzzle with the sharp teeth could be fitted into the mouth. And then the
the archaeologists and anthropologists thought maybe they wore a hood of a wolf skin of
the face over that, so that they were portraying wolf spirits or some other
kind of spirits. And this is fascinating to me. So I'm like,
oh, so wolf shamans. I wonder if Bigfoot has wolf shamans. I
was like, why not, you know, nobody knows. Nobody knows,
so you know, I'm just throwing things out there. Well, I guess
I do think that there's a distinction. And the one thing is I really
haven't heard people report the uh, the the negative vibe that the evil and
respect. Yeah, with Bigfoot and they and it's very common. The same
with Paul Sinclair. Yeah, and he even talked about a connection with them
and mounds out there too. Sometimes they're seen near mounds, So I don't
know what that's all about. Of course, if you've ever watched Mountain Monsters,
Oh, there was an episode. There was the episode where the Chuop
of Cabras in West Virginia were teaming up with Bigfoot. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I watched an episode of that with Fox and I was just like
shaking my head. I'm like, well, I met at the Mothman statue.
I met a young lady. I won't say how she was related to
John Tice, who played Trapper, but we had a good laugh. She
said, uh, this person who will mein Nameless. They shot everything on
the same property you know, supposed to be and it was I think it
was. I think it was John's property in fact, and we had a
good laugh about some of the things, like the Pocahontas fire dragon. Yeah,
anyway, yeah, and the Cherokee something cat. There's a Cherokee cherkey
devil. Yeah, right right, And oh and remember how how mothman you
don't look at his eyes because you'll pass out. Yeah, And of course
who was at the buck passed out? But the camera people didn't that,
which is good. They must have really been their eyes were protected by that
camera lenses. I guess, I guess that makes sense. But anyway,
I but I digress. Oh yeah, Mountain Monsters is really really hilarious to
me, and I loved it as as a guilty pleasure, especially when I
went off with the bizarre conspiracy stuff. Oh yeah, yeah, and the
little Girl in the woods and the oh god, you know, they just
you know, they pushed the envelope and then they busted it. Yeah,
they just kept going. They just they just kept going. But yeah,
I don't. And the other thing is, you know, when we talk
about this bear wolf or whatever it was, I can't help but think of
Zelia Edgar's book Just Another Tenfoil Half Presents, where she of course she's Achilian,
so she talks about transmographication. But she has this great phrase lost in
Transmogrification and all show she talks about flopped projections and gives examples like perhaps the
Enfield Horror in Illinois in the seventies. I think three legs, arms protruding
out of its chest, and pink blowing eyes. A couple of different people
saw this, even shot at it. So I'm wondering if some of these
things they're so called bearwolf for whatever it was, it's just one of those
things that got screwed up translations somehow because you don't see many of those.
You see plenty of big foots, you see plenty of dog men or whatever
they are. Yeah, but you know these. And then you had the
row Row, the Rochelle monster. Yeah, and I always I always say
Rowrow sounds like Scooby Doo trying to form. Yeah, there you go.
But it was sort of like slowly coming into manifestation. You know that the
bangs in the house, they could smell it, they would even could feel
the breath, but nothing was there. And then I finally it showed up,
not leaving footprints, and I think eventually it did. So it was
not was not a conventional Bigfoot could not have been simply ENCRYPTID an undocumented animal.
Yeah, it was something slowly coming. It's like a textbookcase of these
things slowly coming into manifestation. And then it would attack a bunch of chickens
and not eat them. Yeah, because probably it doesn't even have insides,
you know, I mean think about it. Do they do they have insides?
Don't? I don't know. I just but these things have been with
us forever. You know. It's part of the human condition. And you
know, I get I get it. You know. I call it the
uh, the Red Queen effect. You know when Alice in Wonderland with the
Red Queen told her, if you're gonna get aywhere, you're gonna run faster
and faster, and Alice runs as fast as you can and the trees are
staying in the same place. So that's what it feels like sometimes when we're
trying to sift through this. Yeah. And you know, have you ever
felt like you made a couple of connections and you think you're onto something and
then you hit a brick wall? You know? Oh? Yeah, yeah,
I mean that I think that that that happens on purpose. Honestly,
I think so too, that you know, you think you've got it,
You think you've got it, you think you've got it, and then some
other evidence or testimony gets thrown in front of you and it's like a microphone
dropping. Yeah exactly, it's like the it just went boom and they were
done, and then you sit there and you're just like, why did I
Why did I waste three years on that? And Jacques Vllai tells us that
the phenomenon negates itself. Yes, you know, in some cases is pretty
dramatic, where somebody will see something and then you get a knock on the
door. You can't talk about this, and sometimes the experience is so bizarre
that if a person tells it, people don't believe it, and it just
shuts it right down. Of course, So and so many of these things
do have that incredible high strangeness aspect to it. I think at this point
I've decided that everybody has some kind of weird thing that has happened to them
and either it was mostly mundane so they don't think about it as anything weird,
or they know it's weird, but they'll never ever tell anyone, right,
And as part of why I like talking with people who have had experiences,
and I'm like, you know, somebody somewhere has seen something weirder than
you, but they will never say anything about it. But if they hear
your story, maybe they will. Because I think it's a burden on the
psyche to keep secrets like that, because it makes you feel crazy, and
it makes you doubt yourself and it makes you doubt what your truth is.
So I think it's really important to keep telling these these experiences, keep telling
the stories. Well, I think that's true because as a young lady I
talked to several years ago, she contacted me on Facebook and she and her
husband. This is Londonderry, New Hampshire. They're near an airport, but
they're very familiar with the planes and the lights to go over, and they're
standing out early in the morning and start they're standing on their front porch and
they see these strange lights coming toward them, and then all of a sudden,
they're not standing next to each other anymore. It's a little bit lighter
out, and they look up and they see this large black triangle brushing the
tops of the trees. And then, as so many people doing these things,
they didn't register then they just turned around and went back to bed.
And then later on she realized that I'm missing time, so she was on
a quest. It was really bugging her. She wanted to find out what
happened, and so I asked her a series of john Kee questions. Things
I would have if I was, you know, locked back in the nineteen
sixties, I would have said, I hope you you know, find your
what happened during that missing time. I would have known nothing else to ask.
And to make the long story short, I found out that they were
experiencing typical haunting phenomena, some kind of a little bit of electrical phenomenon.
Both sons were seeing orbs, some in the house and some outside the house.
She had seen a shadow person. And then finally I said, this
is going to sound like a weird question, but have you ever seen any
kind of an animal you couldn't identify, like a bigfoot or whatever? And
she said no. And then she said, oh, wait a minute,
my mother in law and sister in law both saw something near the property,
and this thing was seen twice. What they had seen was something like a
black panther standing on two legs. So and she also had she had a
UFO, a local UFO group over to her house, asking questions and so
forth. At the same time, they lived on a cul de sac,
and a black car with its windows blacked out, drove down, went around
the cold sack, and then drove away. So anyway, if I hadn't,
you know, asked all these questions, those would have been buried.
That would have been you know, not a uh. Now, later on
she made a breakthrough, and she's very very irrational about her She said,
I don't remember these things consciously, so I take it with a grain of
salt, you know. And it was kind of you know, she had
these these two pale grays on one side looking at her and blinking. Everything
really creepy. There was something toward her feet that she couldn't even describe.
It was so awful. She said. The only thing she could think of
was remember toy story with that weird kid that cobbled together all those evil looking
Yeah, she said, that's what it made her think of. But then
then off to her right that she couldn't quite see it, but it was
some kind of a female presence. Got the sense of something tall and like
almost like the tall fairy or the tall, gray or whatever, and she's
saying things like, you know, you've been through this before, don't worry,
it's going to be all right, and she's got all this crap going
on and anyway, so that's what came about. But again, she was
one of these people that have had She and her family have had experiences for
years. Yeah, that's and that's that is fairly typical year as I can
tell, which is why I think everybody has something a little weird that's happened,
whether they remember it or not. And I'm fully convinced at this point
that the world is way weirder than you know, any of us thought.
I think it's way stranger. And the paradox is that that seems to be
the natural state of things. People having these experiences are not weird. They're
kind of a natural part of reality, even though it might be kind of
a sub reality or whatever. Yet the human part of us is desperate to
make sense of it, but it's always elusive. It's always just out of
our grasp. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, one hundred percent. Well do
you have what? So? Why do we torture ourself like this? Why
do we torture ourselves? I don't know. I think it's the the eternal
quest to understand, to experience, to know, to understand to I just
think we're too left brained. You know. The logic is just really strong,
and we really want to understand right whereas the right brain is going.
Just just let go be like Luke Skywalker. Let go go with your feelings,
you know, don't don't think too hard. I'm terrible at not thinking
too hard. Well, it's good to see you again. Well you,
and thank you as always for coming to visit pleasure. And if you ever
have anything that you you know, want to ask me, let me know.
If you ever need a guest, Oh okay, yeah, sure you
can always. You can always call on me. I can always talk about
just about anything. Well, that sounds good. I think we should do
that relatively soon. Okay, thanks and have a good holiday. Okay you
too. Well that's all for this week's episode of the Six Degrees of John
Keel podcast. If you have any questions or thoughts about the podcast, or
would like to come and talk about your experiences of the paranormal, you can
contact us at six d JK six seven at gmail dot com. We promised
even answer you, and we are always happy to hear from you. Thank
you. The skip had the skin