What is up, fellow thermonuclear A Eppers. I am Dan Valley coming at
you with another twenty three twenty four NBA look Ahead. We are joined by
as always when we talk about the Charlotte Hornets Kannada. Edwards, he is
an I on College Basketball podcast producer for CBS Sports, does other things for
them as well. He's now a frequent returning guest and friend of the podcast,
so here by his own volition. It is his own mistake. We
are always excited to have him. Follow him on Twitter at Nada the scribe
that's at NA TA t H E S C I R b E Kannada.
How the heck are you doing? Man? Everything's cool in the game.
We're like, we're recording that a really good time. The sun is shining,
the birds are chirping. I can't really complain about much. I got
no complaints either. This is the time of year when I know a lot
of people are missing the NBA, and I miss it to some extent.
But like, my schedule is actually under control exactly. Like I feel like
I'm on top of everything I need to be doing, and so I enjoy
You're sleeping at regular hours, right, I get like six hours a night.
Now, it's exactly like that's the thing the seasons here, Like the
season's gone, we allow it to be gone. Like we get to August,
we are all very very happy. All we're doing is just doing our
little offseason content. We're actually being full fledged humans. We talk to people,
we get outside, we touch grass. We don't have to worry about
the Twitter machine or the X machine or whatever it is. Social media could
be just once and we put our program, we put our content out there,
and then we just live our lives and we beat actual family men.
It's a lovely, lovely thing. Yeah, it's a it's a glorious time
of year. But whenever I go through this process, it's all it's at
once, like, oh we're here already, you're kind of far away.
So it's a it's a very bizarre feeling. The Hornets Snow have had one
of the more eventful off seasons without really having this massive churn of on court
personnel, which is kind of like it's it's hard to have that type of
off season. So I want to start with just MJ selling that majority ownership
stake in the team to Rick Schnal and Gabe plot in Is this gonna or
do you foresee any changes and how the team operates, whether it's staff changes
or what they're doing from a from a day to day. What can fans
expect to or should they brace themselves for as part of this new ownership regime.
My one can I would start with this, They've you've already started to
see changes in the organization that in the organization first one that you obviously notice
will be there. They've been more open about stuff. There's been a lot
of back behind the scenes changes. I think there's going to be a culture,
There's going to be a player personal culture change. I think there's going
to be some changes with a lot of things. I do not expect Mitch
cut Check to stay. I don't expect Steve Clifford to stay. I think
this is the last ride for a lot of the Jordan the Jordan hires.
Quite honestly, I think we're headed to a new era in a year.
However, the one thing I do want to caution fans with is there's gonna
be a lot of the same money issues. I still have kind of questions
about how much this team is going to spend. Free agency really doesn't exist
so it's more about retaining your own talent. I do kind of wonder,
like there's a lot of this where I do start to wonder is the money
situation going to be any different? Because, as you note, as anyone
will know with a quick Google search, Gay Plockin is the one that kind
of lost his shirt in the game stop stuff, and he was already a
part He was already a part part owner. So there's a lot of this
where I still have questions about if the money's going to be different. I
don't think it's going to be different, but I do expect a lot of
changes behind the scenes. You mentioned player culture, and you brought up something
to me before we recorded that I had and this is how out of the
online news cycle I am. The Kai Jones video with the hornets. What
do we make of that? Like, just what are your thought I don't
have. I haven't even been able to form an opinion on other than I'm
watching it. It just kind of breaks your heart a little bit. But
that's that's the thing. And there's been a lot of online judgment because unfortunately
I'm two online even in the off season. But I would say I would
tell say this one we had. When we think about the Kajo situation,
we're talking about a kid that really didn't understand that he was going to be
He was athletically gifted to do basketball until he was sixteen. A lot of
this is recent, a lot of this is him not. Is just a
lot of change, and I think he was closer on the way out than
he was on the way in, but he had done just enough to stay
on the roster. Again, dunking on Wemby is going to in summer league,
is going to garner you some grace, some good grace. At the
same time, I do hope he's going to get the help he needs.
Unfortunately, with this, people want to say he needs to go get helped.
This out in the third. To this point, he has not committed
a crime, and until that point he cannot be forced to go. He
can be persuaded to go, he cannot be forced to go. So I
hope he gets all the help he needs. Unfortunately, this sounds like from
what I've been told, this has been an all summer thing. So again,
it's just one of those things like I hate to say thoughts and prayers
to Kai Jones, but I just kind of hope that someone steps in gets
them right and then we can talk about basketball after that. No good segue
to the actual basketball exactly. That's all what is For so long, it
feels like there's been a disconnect between where people think the Charlotte Hornets should go,
where the Charlotte Hornets themselves think they're going. What is this team's direction
right now as you zoom out and look at it. As soon as I
figure it out, i'll tell you. But honestly, I do think they've
been aiming for the playoffs because I think Mitch has been kind. I think
one we have to remember that under the Jordan regime, they were one of
the more cash poor ownership groups, and so playoffs, like the goal was
always going to be make playoffs to fill the call forers to fill that margin.
They might not be like Broke, but they operate in a way that
basically says, we don't really have the money a lot at the time.
So that's why the goal was the playoffs. The other thing is I think
Mitch really did believe in his talent, because I think we talked about this
two years ago where they had the center rotation of Nick Richards Vernon Carrey Junior
and Miles Plumber and yeah and a Plumber brother. And I said, that's
a rotation for playoff aspirations as a wish, not necessarily as an actual plan.
So I do think this team is aiming for the playoffs. I sneakily
liked the talent a lot more than I did the last couple of years.
Now, granted there's going there's going to be the team the guys at disappointed,
but I think the direction is playoffs. I also think this is an
evaluation year for everybody because, as already previously stated, plock In and Chanel
are going to evaluate everybody see who to keep who not, and I mean
who to keep in the entire building much less like this could this can all
look very very different when we have this conversation next year. I think everybody's
getting evaluated. So I do think playoff aspirations are necessary to just say,
Okay, what is this team going to look like when it's competitive? And
I think last and lasting on this, I think last year was an attempt
to be competitive. But I also think they thought that the talent was going
to be further ahead than it actually was in terms of development. Because They've
done a pretty decent job of player development. I think they just overestimated how
much that player development was going to be without mouths. Just what do you
make and we got here? I'm sure that's the first question everyone thought.
I'd ask you, what do you make of the Brandon Miller pick, specifically,
of course, choosing him of Scoot Henderson. So I'm going to play
a little game when Brandon, because Brandon Miller on the Paul George podcast had
mentioned that Lamello had reached out about a month before the draft. If you'd
start taking that kind of tact with it, LaMelo wanted to do that.
They kept it close to the vest to probably try to extract as much as
they could from Portland to make sure that they got Scoot Henderson or someone got
Scoot Henderson. But the plan was always going to get what was going to
be get to Brandon Miller, I had heard Jordan was a big fan of
his about a week before the draft. I also kind of think that the
star player who took a five year deal with no options kind of had his
hand in this as well. I do not think believe that Scoot hop and
Henderson was ever a realistic option. I do believe that at some point,
like they just said, we need a wing, we need a not necessarily
a Gordon Hayward replacement, but if we're going to get the closest thing to
Paul George, that might be the best way to maximize LaMelo going forward,
rather than Scoot Henderson, who would shift LaMelo off the ball rather than necessarily
and take the ball out of one of probably the top five creators in the
NBA take the ball out of his hands more. I think that was the
thought process, and I kind of think LaMelo didn't want Scoot Henderson here anyway.
I think Brendan Miller is still gonna be really good, so I want
to make that clear. I have some concerns about whether he can generate enough
separation on ball, but I also think of the beauty of him is he
should be able to get a shot up anyway because he's big enough and he
doesn't need to be on the ball to impact the game. So I think
he's gonna be really good. I just think that's if they're looking at it.
From the standpoint of I have a problem when teams say we don't want
to take the ball out of Lamello's hands when we've seen routinely like some of
the best teams in the NBA have two or three really high level creators on
the ball, and talent has a way of figuring it out. So I
would have throwing everything else aside. I would have wanted to have seen Scoot
and LaMelo played together because I think that they both absolutely could have been optimized
while playing together. And I think it just comes down to whether you believe
Brandon Miller will be as good or better than Scoot. I personally do not
think he's going to be as good or better, but I also think,
like this could be I'm not comparing the two, but like we could be
looking at oh instead of Luka Danchich. They got a Trey Young type deal
where it's hey, you still think I actually think that was where I was
going to go with that. That is actually that is exactly where I was
going to go with it. The big thing that Brandon Miller, and this
is coming from someone that I watched every single Brandon Miller game for the last
little bit because of work. I think Brandon Miller is going to come in
here with a shot better than people expect. I think when you start looking
at hornets and start looking at the guys that can actually shoot perimeter shots that
can open up the floor more for LaMelo to drive. Because we know that
LaMelo's finishing numbers are kind of poor. A lot of that is due to
poor spacing. I think when you have a guy that can create it,
that can't create his own shot yet, but it needs that needs the physical
strength to do that. But at the same point comes with an NBA ready
three point shot, where I kind of expect him to shoot thirty seven thirty
eight. I'm not saying forty, but if he's shot at thirty eight percent
from three, would that really surprise you? Because his game is built for
that. I think a lot of this is going to be when you come
to Brandon Miller. I like we told like before we started the show,
I told you I expect him to be all NBA. I think at least
again, he's got to be all NBA or else the rookie season disappointment.
I would not be surprised if he's all if he's first seamail rookie NBA,
because I think he's got the skill set and I think he's got the distribution
And the funny thing is, I think he's developed a plan bat. I
think he's got to plan be already developed, because we saw it with the
Golden Warrior Golden State Warriors Summer League game. They doubled him, they threw
everything on him. He didn't score, but he had seven assists. He
moved the ball. I want to see what he does with NBA talent.
I think he's going to really flash with NBA caliber people on his roster and
an actual point guard. Now, granted he's going to come off the bench
to start the season, But at the same point, would it really shock
you if he performs well enough late in the season to where Terry Rogier's the
two guard, the back, the six man. It really wouldn't shock me
at this point, I guess. And also so to that end, when
you're talking about a lot of what goes into all rookie and just our first
impressions with these rookies. How much are they playing, what does their role
look like? The Hornets, And I don't think this has been a bad
thing when you look at the way they handed Lamello, even Mark Williams,
just the name like two of the more recent ones, even like you know
PJ. Washington earlier in his career, they've brought their youngsters or rookies.
It feels like a long more of a gradual track. What type of a
role do you expect Brandon Miller having year one? How do you expect them
to use them? Anything along those lines. Seventh man, I think he's
going to be the second guy off the bench to start. I also have
heard he's doing amazing things in these workouts. And I'm granted work workouts mean
nothing, but he's starting to impress. He's starting to do things. I
think they're going to The plan is to bring them along slowly. There will
not be any Greensboro in his future. And I thank you for bringing up
the whole bringing them along slowly, because again we saw what happened with Mark
Williams. When they're ready to go, they're ready to go and take take
on those major minutes. It's always going to be a slow titration. The
big thing for at least Brandon Miller for me, is going to be I
think he plays the way Cliff likes. I think he's the exception to the
rule when it comes to minutes for rookies. Do I think I mean,
it's part of the reason I don't think Kelly you raised in town right now,
because I think they like the skill set and what he brings. His
defense is going to leave a little bit to be desired, but his playmaking
skills, his shot making, I think those are all necessary things for the
Charlotte Hornets, especially on the bench right now, because you don't know exactly
what you're gonna get from Cody Martin right now. You don't know if Gordon
Hayward is going to come off the bench when Miles Bridges come back, and
we'll talk about that later. But also a lot of this feels like this
kid can do a lot of things really well out the gate, except maybe
finish at the rim, and even then that's going to be an NBA strength
thing that's not going to come till year three. I think he'll be a
very very complimentary piece on a team that's aiming to be in that playing position,
if not in the top six. I think people sometimes get too caught
up with oh, why isn't this top whatever pick starting as well where it
says you mentioned him coming off the bench. I want to see more of
what he looks like on the ball. Or what he can do as a
facilitator at the NBA. The best spot for him to do that would be
or you're gonna stagger him from Charlotte's starters more than if he was starting with
them to begin with. So I wouldn't it wouldn't shock me if he was
starting by the end of the year. I might even predict it. But
I do feel like some people, and it happens with the Hornets naturally a
lot, like why wouldn't you just start LaMelo right out of the gate?
Like, but it's they've always brought up there. That's the fun part.
Like, and that's the funny part because James Brego explained it really well,
like he's he's a nineteen year old kid coming in off the pandemic year,
not really playing, and then on top of that is expected to be an
NBA point guard from jump. There was always going to be a warm up
period for this kid. It was always going to be a slow titration.
And the fact that and it's funny because I'm in the mix coaches, because
the one thing that Steve Clifford said, and he's very very right about as
an NBA coade, you do not want to be wrong, because then you
lose credibility with the guy. So if you're going to do this slowly,
if you're going to build confidence, it allows you a little bit of a
margin for error just in case you happen to be wrong and you can tweak.
But it's better to be conservative and then then ramp it up then over
aggressive, blow the kids confidence and now you have to send him to Greensboro
to get it figured out. PJ. Washington took roughly an eternity to sign
his three year, forty six point five million dollars guarantee deal. Incentives can
take it to forty eight. What do we First of all, the press
conference that clipped with Mitch Cupcheck was hilarious. That was that's Mitch's best.
Like, here's the thing that is the highlight of the Mitch cup Check era
in terms of press conferences, because usually they're very, very bad. The
fact that he put his business out on front street like that was the most
amazing thing from Mitch cup Checks. So the PJ. Washington thing, by
the way, last spectacular was Mitch Cupcat's explanation of why it took so long.
I believe he said something. Yeah, his answers to the effect of
some things take longer than others, which just response, which is basically which
is basically like, we were not going to pay the eighteen because let's let's
be real here, PJ. Washington on a fifteen point five annual. Again,
it's basically fifteen point five and decreasing in value. If also we have
to remember that that is a steal of a contract because basically you're getting a
guy that can guard I'm not going to say one through five because one through
five is just generally overrating, but let's say two through four. You got
a guy that can guard two through four from fifteen point five million dollars and
is probably reaching that point where he's going to be a valuable piece on any
kind of playoff team. That is a steal. That is a legitimate steal,
and it's a bargain that usually does not happen for the Charlotte Hornets,
that would they squeeze that man. They use every advance energy they could with
restricted free agency, and basically showed the example of why restricted free agency should
probably go away because because theoretically that's a twenty million dollar player on that you
got basically for four point five million less. And it's also one of those
things where I just he's going to be your starter. He's going to be
one of your building blocks now that you have Lamello. He's the second.
I think he's the third guy of Mitch's own guys that he's actually retained the
first two LaMelo the other. The other one Nick Richards, who you got
on a five million dollars a year deal when he exploded on the scene,
kind of as a backup center. So there's a lot like I kind of
like the building pieces. I just wonder where the fit's going to be if
Miles Miles Bridges does have his explosive year like I'm kind of expecting in the
back half with Miles Bridges signs of qualifying offer what so, I think that's
the place to start before looking about what's going to happen when he gets back
to the on the court. Is there Will that be a source of friction
between he and the team? Is it? Do they still view him as
a long term piece moving forward? He has ten games left to serve on
his suspension for the no contest plea to tell any domestic violence chargers of course,
Like what is I think it was impossible to come up with Again,
I hate making this about the basketball of it, after all everything that happened
last year, but it's impossible to come up with a number for him,
almost because he doesn't play last year, So like, what do you just
make of this quality? And by the way, the other tricky part of
this, I saw some people saying, well, he'll just get traded.
His rights don't transfer, so no team's gonna give you anything to trade for
him. So that's that's the other thing. And also remember he's got to
want to He's got to want that trade too. That's the other part to
this. He's got to want that trade. He's got to sign off on
it. So it's effectively he's theirs. I think there's a partial friction,
but I wouldn't I wouldn't say there's that much friction. I think the Hornets
do not trust Miles Bridges. I believe that Miles Bridges semi doesn't trust the
Hornets. This is gonna we're gonna work this out. And typically when we
have that, like because I think Miles Bridges and Clutch were looking for the
Jeremy Grant deal. The Jeremy Grant deal was never coming. The Jeremy Grant
type deal was never going to come. He plays well, he balls out,
the Jeremy Grant deal will be there. I think they're earmarking that money
for him already, especially when you consider that Gordon Hayward is going to be
a free agent at the end of the year. Now that's a whole different
discussion, but I do think that they are preparing to keep Miles Bridges there.
I just want to see what happens. I think there's an agreement,
there's a handshake, agreement with new ownership, and like we'll see again,
do what you do on the floor, stay out of will keep your nose
clean, and there'll there'll be a deal for you. Now, granted that's
kind of illegal, but again, basically what they're saying is we'll see.
I do think there's a deal though, coming for him if he happens to
hit certain qualifiers. So it's that we don't need to look at this as
O he sign is qualifying offer, like he's gone, that's not with you.
I don't think we get there unless things go sideways, which in Charlote
Hornet's Land is very very possible. So what do they I don't want to
get too deep into the rotation stuff just yet, but what did we make
of Okay, now they have PJ. Washington and Miles Bridges and Gordon Hayward
and Mark Williams, Like, how how are they sort of starting games here?
You know? Are you bringing Miles off the bench once he serves his
suspension? Are you bringing PJ off the bench? What are you doing here?
I don't expect Miles Bridges to start a game until Christmas. I think
him being all free, I think it's also like be malpractice to start him
off when you back in after ten games, To bring him as a starter
straight off, I think it's malpractice. I don't care how much he's been
working out over at the local gyms. I do not care. There's a
difference between NBA's speed and him being away for a year a year and change.
Granted of his own doing, but I think you're not going to see
him starting until Christmas. I do think that there's going to be a ramp
up period. I do think that, And this all no mind you.
This also depends on injuries, because again that's relying on Gordon Hayward's staying healthy.
That's relying on Terry Rogier is staying healthy. Both of those guys have
accumulated a decent amount of injuries. Like we all know about the Gordon Hayward
stuff, start looking at how many games Terry Rogier's played in the last year
and a half, like there are there are certain things that work like this
rotation can be fluid. I don't know exactly how this is gonna go,
but my guess is mal Like I said, wait till Christmas, He'll probably
be a starter then. And it brings an interesting question because then it becomes
what do you do with a Terry Rosier? Because do you keep a Gordon
Hayward on the bench save his body for a potential playoff run? But you
gotta remember, as you said earlier, you need multiple facilitators. That's one
of Gordon Hayward's best strengths. So it makes it, It really does.
It's a very fascinating puzzle, and I'm glad I'm not the one that has
to solve it and manage the egos at the same time, Do you think
that they're committed at least because I think when you look the other interesting thing
about their decisions this offseason, they kind of just punted on saying like,
we don't need to sign a veteran backup big. We don't need to sign
I'll call it a conventional backup point guard. They let that Nis Smith Junior
go to Brooklyn and DSJ was good defensively for them, and defensively he was
good, he was very, very good. I think what they're going with
and I think this was a every very intentional thing. They saw the Denver
Nuggets and what the Denver Nuggets were. We're a big team with a bunch
of positional length on defense. That is something, and I believe that is
a Steve Clifford move where he was like, we want to get better where
we don't need these tiny guys. It's kind of why. It's kind of
why I see Terry Rozier being on the move potentially if Cody Martin is healthy
this they are aiming to be a big team with a lot of positional length
that can defend. That last part is up for debate, but again,
that's a Mark Williams problem, and that's a Mark Williams unfortunately. That's what
it is. It's like these guys have to dig in and learn to defend
Steve Clifford is really really good at it. But I think the aim is
they're trying to be a big team, lots of length and occasional positional shooting
and decent positional shooting from a PJ. Washington, from maybe a Mark Williams.
Maybe I don't know. The hand injury might have deterred that, but
the but the aim with that is it's just that big team, positional length
and being better defensively, and they'll figure it out from there. I'm still
assuming though, I know you've mentioned a big team and they wouldn't necessarily be
the smallest team. But like the way that this roster's built, we're going
to see and they got away from it last year, like we're gonna see
PJ at the five line of like they just don't have like after I don't
think Richards, there's not a ton of biggs. I don't think we're seeing
PJ at the five anymore. I don't. I think I think Nick Richards
is done enough. Well I'm just but that's only two Like who you then
trust two bigs on this team, which is just weird, Like I would
I'm I get it, I get it, I get it. But I
think. And it's funny because Cliff. I remember Cliff telling me this,
I want to say, almost a decade ago, and he was like,
He's like, if you want to lose, you go small. He's been
like, he been on that. This is one thing he's absolutely been on.
So when we start talking about big teams, he's not necessarily going to
go like I think he has his two bigs. He likes. He liked
Nick Richards literally before anybody else didn't. And when Nick Richards did what he
did last season, they're the only people that weren't surprised about it was Steve
Clifford and Ty Corbin, the two guys that have been working with them.
So I think he likes Nick Richards a lot more. I don't think we're
gonna see PG at the five as much unless you go super super small and
either Mark is in foul trouble or Nick Richards is in foul trouble. I
really don't think we're getting there just yet. I will say I'll be a
little bit heartbroken if we don't get the Lamello plus all four wings lineup.
Ever, like the Washington Bridges Miller Hayward, I would like to see that
to spoil maybe it wouldn't be my answer to the lineup question, but I
if they don't do that, I'll almost be impressed if they don't need to
glean on that at all, Like not that specific lineup, but I'm just
looking at the makeup of this roster and I'm like, Okay, Mark Williams,
are you just ready for him to play thirty three minutes a game?
They were ready, they were ready. They were Yeah, they were ready
for it. Last year. You were going to see it if they were
in a competitive position last year, they would have. But they weren't,
and they were like, Yo, we're gonna go after these We're gonna see
what Book Night has. We're gonna see what Kai Jones has. We're gonna
see what a lot of these guys have. And instead of that, again
they didn't have much, granted, but at the same point, I think
they know what they have in Mark Williams. They're not worried about Mark Williams.
They're the only worry about Mark Williams is the hand injury he suffered.
And as as long as he's ready to go, I think they're ready to
give him the thirty minutes. So the Mark. I Mark Williams. I
very much enjoyed watching last year sort of the twofold question with him. And
first we'll start here. What impressed you or maybe surprised you the most about
his footspeed? His footspeed, because I think you me and you had this
conversation last year where I was significantly concerned about him on the pick and roll
and him being the mark that everybody was going to target. He went to
Greensboro, they worked with him. It's and the big thing about Mark Williams,
and it's one of those things that I will continually harp on the development
staff in Charlotte when it comes to Nick Friedman and the Greensboro swarm. They
do a great job of translating what you need to do from getting in the
de league, what's sustainable, what's not? We need to get you to
this work because because when Mark Williams was ready to go, he was ready
to go. He is going to start and quite honestly, like I said,
the foot speed was there, the defensive IQ was a lot better than
I thought it would ever be. And the fact that he was because again
I was a during guy. I think we talked about this. I was
a doing I was hardcore Doran guy. I was stoked that we got him,
and then when they traded him, I was very very upset. Now
granted that that pick turned into Nick Smith Jr. Which who will talk about
later, but I was really and I got I understood what Mitch and I
think Cliff we're thinking about with this, which was we need positional length,
We need a big guy that can move his feet, We need a guy
with defensive IQ. Because if you've seen the Hornets for longer than maybe forty
eight minutes, you already know the defensive IQ was lacking on this team and
has been lacking since Marvin Williams left the building. So therefore you had again
you needed that guy and the only thing that you were worried about was athleticism.
He covered up those athletic things and I think if you look at him
in the mold of a Brook Lopez, it works so so so well.
He Yeah, the way that they got him to turn his body and how
he was moving his feet from there on defense, just we had talked about
it. I thought he was too slow. I remember when they were talking
last year. So that really impressed me. What's even though, like the
little floater he would bust out or having like testing out the mid range.
What are you watching aside from the he said he had hand surgery I think
it was or figure surgery this offseason. Just aside from that, what are
you gonna be watching from him most? In year two? Like would fascinates
you the most. I want to see if he develops at three, because
there were there there were rumblings that they were going to try and develop that
three. If he develops a three, this unlocks everything because now you can
play five out and you saw the mid range. The mid range was kind
of solid. I bought into it. I'm solved. So if he develops
at three and granted the rumors with horned hornet centers developing threes, because lord
no, everyone was telling me Cody Zeller would hit the three, would be
able to hit the three, this, that and the third. If Mark
Williams hits the three, we're talking about Brook Lopez two point zero and that
kind of building block at fifteen, at the fifteenth pick in the draft is
something that when you talk about Mitch cup checking this legacy is a GM here,
You're gonna have to bring up the fact that he found all these gems
in the late lottery and beyond. I'm actually this might be too nerdy,
But there's two things I'm watching with him. And we're talking about the foot
speed, the way that they have him turning his body right now. It
makes it tougher for him to cover both ends of the pick and roll,
like what he's not paying straight up? So and I do think that hurt
his rim protection numbers a little bit. They like kind of even out towards
the end when he started playing a bigger role. But I'm watching that,
so i'd be curious your thoughts on that. And the second thing is I
think when he's making catches on like after slipping screens or on those short rolls,
I want to see it's say, now they should have more shooting around
him, like if that shot isn't immediately available, can he make the decision
of is there a one dribble decision there? Or when I'm more fascinated by,
hey, can I hit the guy in the corner? Can I hit
the guy like you know on the like behind the arc? And that's I
think, I'm I don't know what the word is. I'm very curious to
see if we can see his decision making. Yeah, yeah, one decision
making, Yeah, I get that one. The funny thing is, I'm
not worried about that part. That part. Like him offensively, I am
not worried about defensively, I'm I would also like to say, I'm not
really that worried about because you know the one the people that are going to
get him right, Steve Clifford, Tych Corbyn. They are really good at
what they do in terms of getting defenders right. We saw Dennis Smith Junior
turn into a defensive dog under Steve Clifford, like cliff and defense is the
one thing I do not worry about with this team. This team was actually
one of the better defensive teams. Grant how much of that you take seriously
after the All Star Break, because we know they don't really try after the
All Star folks don't really try. But the fact that they were top ten
in defense post All Star Break, I think that part kind of matters.
So I'm I'm not necessarily worried about the defensive aspects because I think a lot
of that coaching defensively was done on the fly, and I think with a
full off season, I think they're gonna be a lot more wrinkles to Mark
Williams game, especially on defense. The I don't I can't believe it took
us this long to get here. But the response to the La Melo extension
was actually a little bit more divisive than I understand that one. By the
way, yeah, I was gonna just ask you what your impressions on the
reaction to the LaMelo extension, not to LaMelo extension, which I look at
it as a straight max all NBA language like normal and no player options.
I viewed that as an organizational win. That is, like, that's the
thing, it's a win. There's no player options. It becomes a question
of how long does it become before Lamello gets tired and he asks out He's
gonna get his money regardless. They're gonna get there, They're gonna get the
player regardless. It's a two and a half year deal. I think,
and I think, and also again, like I said, I think part
of this is tied to not drafting his potential replacement in Scoot Henderson. You
make the guy happy, he doesn't want to take any options. He's very
very happy here for right now. You take that and you run. And
I do believe that a lot of this, like I get the slings and
arrows at mitche cup check for a lot of these things. I also would
probably caution that he's working with one hand tied behind his back because the previous
owner would like to meddle and dip in and dip out every now and again
and get his guys, especially when you start reading reports of wanting to offer
guys like Mantras Harrold big money for little prices and then eventually Montras Harrel shows
up and doesn't do much here. So I would I would just say this,
the Lamello thing is a win, and anyone that tries to basically spin
it as anything else, I'm kind of laughing at you right now, and
I'm laughing very very hard. Ryan Windhorse calls us the fun Max, and
I think I would just agree with And it's like what you would say is,
I think what you essentially did is you bought yourself an extra year here
before you had to make a decision, because you can say two and a
half years, but like everything is now moved too. If they have two
years left on their deal, like to guarantee years, they have leverage,
and so by not having that player option. You've been shored. Hey,
we have three, well four more years of Melo technically, because he stills
the one year left on his rookie scale before. If we're willing for things
to get awkward or not just acquiesce four years to figure it out. That's
a really that's a critical amount of time. Exactly like he can't again,
he can bang the table and say I want out, but the Hornets dun't
necessarily have to act. We asked, like you said, ard finding that
out right now exactly like literally they're going to get a decent amount of value
for whenever he wants out, if he wants out, unless they build something
significant here, and I believe they are to a to a point, I
do think that this this organization has done some dumb things. Mitch Kupcheck is
not a dumb man. He just on occasion over believes in this talent.
And that's not if that's the worst thing he does, I can't really be
mad at him. What last last year when we spoke and LaMelo barely plays
dealing with all those injuries, you're gonna be monitoring sort of his strength and
finishing around the basket. Is that the you know, the biggest thing you're
watching is the year four Yeah still yeah, yeah, he But the funny
thing is he became the best scorer of it. Again. He on a
scoring level in those thirty games that he played, he was a much much
better score And I'm kind of like, I know, Matt Moore did the
whole thing on the top one hundred players and he put him at eighty four,
and like, I wasn't going to fight it because honestly, the Hornets
hadn't done enough to where it was worth defending. So but if Lamello comes
out with a decent amount of strength and stays healthy, he's going to remind
a lot of people about how exactly how good he is. I believe in
the kid. I just want to see him get some better footwear. That
that's just me and I understanding he's got the Puma thing. I just want
him to have decent sneakers, have decent footwear, and play sixty seventy games
because he's been so snake bit with these injuries that are not his fault that
like, I just want to see him play seventy games. Just give me
seventy games and then we'll see where we're at after that, I think,
and just a straight away, I think that's the biggest thing for him,
and also the strength thing I really do believe would allow him to do more
defensively, and I understand how they use him now. Part of that that
goes into it is the load he carries on offense. He's not very strong.
You also want him to be in position to go after defensive rebounds you
get your possessions started. But I look at him and just based off what
we've seen, even though they don't have him like gambling a ton and shooting
gaps, he can be so disruptive if he's a little bit stronger. I
feel like this is someone who can actually like make a meaningful odd ball defensive
impact, is what I'm getting at. I do think that's possible. I
do think that's possible. I just think that we are We're a while from
that. It's also like that's one of those areas that I would not be
surprised if it changes organizationally, where the strength training whatever the new staff looks
like. I would not be surprised if there is a true NBA caliber strength
training program here, because I think that's been a critical concern. If you
start thinking about going back to Hell even MO League monk like guys that have
struggled to put on weight here in Charlotte and have flourished elsewhere with as they
get older with proper strength training programs. I do think that's something that I
expect to change as we go forward in the plot in chernal Era. I
know exceedingly little about Nick Smith Jr. What are the what is the cliff
notes on his game? And can we expect to see him do anything with
the bigger club in year one? I will say this there like there were
there were moments in Summer League where he did some things and he scored,
and granted he was expected to be the point guard, and I think that's
he's woefully out of position. I will also point out that when it came
to the Green because I expected him to be I kind of expected him to
be in Greensboro for a long swath of this season. The one thing I
will point out is that when it came to promote the Greensboro Swarm, there
were two players on there, one leaky Black, who I do think is
going to organizationally matter at some point. It probably won't be this year.
The other was Amri Bailey, but Nick Smith was nowhere to be seen on
that. I think Nick Smith has a chance to break into this rotation if
he defends. If he defends, I think he's one of those guys that
can be a Jeremy Lamb type player where he gives you fifteen seventeen eighteen off
the bench. I think he's gonna push guys like Cody Martin. I think
he's also going to push guys like Bryce McGowan's who sneakily had a half decent
season. There's a lot of competition for those backup wings. There's a glove
of those backup wings. And again, you haven't even mentioned James buck Knight,
who might be closer to out on this rotation, out on this roster
than in. There's a I think there's a chance that he does do something
this year, but I do think that it's gonna take a little bit.
I think functionally he's not a one. He's gonna have to be a two,
and he's gonna if he ends up being Jordan Clarkson two point out,
I wouldn't be surprised. I feel like that is what they were looking for.
I'd probably prefer Bryce McGowan's I guess I just like you need those,
You need those bucket getters. Charlotte was one of the worst scoring teams last
year and they have historically struggled to score. You need those bucket getters.
And if you trust your bigs to be defensively sound, and you trust that
again a JT. Thor who I think they believe in a lot, which
is why they were so eager, not necessarily eager, but they were so
willing to get rid of a guy like Jayleen McDaniels. I think if you
trust the positional defensive again, defensive intensity and length of those two guys,
I think you can live with a Bryce McGowans at the tour again, a
potential Neil Keena again, Frankie Smokes, backup, backup point guard if Brandon
Miller is starting, and if they make a move, they make a Terry
Rosier move like him, Nicks again, Nick Smith Junior. You find a
spot from the gallants to play and then if you're backup five. If you're
backup five guys are Neil Keena, Nick Smith Junior, McGowan's JT. Thor,
Nick Richards, I think they're going to be willing to take those gambles
with guys like that, It's just going to take a lot of rotation.
It's gonna take a lot of rotational turns. I do think that a move
is going to be made by February at this point. There is and you
sort of mentioned all the players that we haven't talked about in depth on this
podcast. Is there anyone from that group that you're either particularly interested in long
term or who you just see someone on the shauster playing a much bigger role
than expect did next season. I think Cody Martin. I think a lot
of people that, yeah, I forgot how good he was, and they
said they kept the wrong Martin's twin, and I vehemently disagree. I think
Cody Martin under Steve Clifford, if he's healthy, is going to give you
exactly what Caleb Martin gave you and that kind of rotational piece, especially for
the price that we both were like, holy crap, he signed for that.
I think that I think Cody Martin is gonna be a lot better than
people think, especially if that knee is right. If that knee is right,
then you're talking about a guy that I'm not saying we will be all
defensive, but I think he might give votes. I think he could give
votes, a couple of votes here, scanting votes here there. I think
he's that good. I also think, and maybe I'm reading too much into
it, but like we had talked about, Okay, their decision not to
sign a better well, I mean they signed Frank niel Keina, but an
actual floor general type player Cody Martin can do that. Like that's something else
that he can do. Yeah, that there's that, And I think a
long term they're looking at Amory Bailey, and I think Amary Bailey, who
did have some moments of okay, he can be a point guard, and
there's some other moments where it was straight yikes. I do believe that Amary
Bailey might be the backup point guard of the future. They're trying to develop
them in that. Yeah, so I would I think that's I think that
I think going there is probably I would probably say that I don't think they
believe in backup point guards that much. That's probably a Jordan thing. I
would be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if that changed in a year where
Richinald and I also think that they have enough pieces to where if it's really
a problem, you can give up a James book Night, who's again will
probably be in the last year of his deal. They have a decent amount
of expiring salaries to where they can make a deal and get rid of folks
if they need to. Who has a bigger impact for this team? Lamella
Ball or Frank Nila Keena If LaMelo Ball slight slight gap, and then as
Frank Neila Kila Kama, that's I'll accept that answer. So this you would
kind of mentioned it already. Charlotte finished like a bear on defense last year.
They were eighth in points slot per possession after the trade deadline. When
you look at it, they did all the things that a Steve Clifford team
typically does. Is there anything stylistically about their defense that you think flies under
the radar or even when looking at the makeup of this team that makes you
believe they can sustain that success over a longer period. Leading into this season,
I think you're gonna get a lot of I think the one thing that
you would I would note is that they Charlotte was playing with a lot of
replacement level guy to start the season. If you start really looking at it.
Lamello didn't play for a lot Terry Rosier was their best player for a
for a large swath until Christmas, until hey we'd got back, Hey we'd
got hurt. Everything else. I don't think we've seen the proper Charlotte Hornet's
team yet. Now, granted a lot of guys on offense, I would
say too, exactly, I don't think we've seen it. I think if
so, if you're wondering, Okay, what what are we doing? What
are they going to do on defense? A lot of this is we haven't
seen this team properly put together. And I would say since the exit in
Atlanta, since the play in tournament exit in Atlanta, this team has not
properly been put together. I would want. So that's I guess that's where
it is. Like, that's it, like this team and when this team
gets healthy, and that's a really big question, is if this team is
going to get healthy, because they haven't been healthy for three years. But
what I'm saying is health wise and I'm excluding Gordon Hayward from this conversation because
we aloys gonna play about fifty five games, and that's it. I do
believe that this team, when ninety percent put together. I think this team
defensively is going to be a lot a load on defense, And I think
Steve Clifford got a lot of buying it in that back half of the season.
So I think they're coming coming in there bought in and there's not going
to be any in fighting. Is there like any concern though about now all
of a sudden, let's say LaMelo is gonna play in sixty something games rather
than thirty something. You have a rookie and Brandon Miller that's gonna be out
there. You're welcoming Miles Bridges back at some point? Is there any concern
about by bringing back the full strength Hornets that you're potentially a little flimsier defensively.
I I'm not worried. I'm not as worried about that because one thing
we've done, like Steve Clifford can hide a week defender Steve Clifford has.
I've seen Steve Clifford used Michael kid Gil Chris to hide the flaws of Kemball
Walker and a whole lot of other guys on defense. I have I have
all the faith in the world that he's got two legitimate defenders in PJ.
Washington starting, and he's also got again PJ. Washington, Cody Martin,
Mark Williams will throw Nick Richards in there as a rim protecting threat. There
are a few guys Bryce McGowan's is going to get better at that. On
that aspect, I think there's a lot of guys that are gonna be better
because Steve Clifford is going to be in their ear. He's going to teach
them how to play defense. I think Miles Miles Bridges might be the biggest
beneficiary of Steve Clifford coaching. So there's a lot of this where I think,
let me just see where we are in camp. I'm kind of I'm
very optimistic about the defense because I've seen cliff work magic before. I mean,
he hid Al Jefferson as the big and Al Jefferson had hard time garden
you or me and they ended up winning forty eight games with it. So
I've seen cliffwork magic. I'm not worried about it as much. Looking at
the current roster construction, do you think that there's any under the radar strengths
this team is going to have, or what's something about them that just is
flying under the national radar right now. I think this is going to be
a better perimeter shooting team than it was last year. I think we're gonna
get back to forty three and thirty nine team. I don't think we're ever
going to see the pace again because Cliff hates playing at that pace. They're
going to find a happy medium. They're gonna be better in the half court
this year. I think with another shooter. I think with also guys at
ken Score, they're gonna be better in the half court. They were horrible
in the half court last year. A lot of that due to injury,
But I do think half court wise, I think they're going to be better
than people think. And outside of that, I think defensively, like I'm
I think they're going to end up proving that last last year's All Star Break
wasn't a fluke. Yeah, the defense, I'm just going to be fascinated
to see sort of how that progresses with this too. Is there a concern
or thought from the off season that we haven't hit yet about the about squad?
What happens if Mark Williams missus time. I think they've solved it already.
I thought, well, what happens if Mark Williams missus time is might
be my biggest concern. I'm like, there is going to be the whole
what happens if LaMelo's gone? I'm not worried as much about that, because,
well, you have my I think Miles Bridges eventually will take that,
being the best half court scorer on the team that he was when they were
forty three and nine forty three and thirty nine. I'm sorry, but I
do wonder what happens if they don't have their their center, the defensive stalwart.
Are we going to go back to a team that gave up a boatload
of points in bunches? I like Nick Richards. I think Nick Richards is
perfectly suited as a backup center right now. But what happens if Kyle Jones
has to get minutes? What happens if God forbid something happens and they have
to trade for they have to use their disposable income, their expiring contracts for
a center for a backup center, something like that. The center position is
a strength, but it's still a weakness because if Mark Williams misses any time,
all of this stuff we talked about on defense is going to probably fall
apart. So are you ready for the cookie cutter portion of the podcast.
Let's do it. What does this ten man rotation look like this year one?
I'm not sure it's ten man. I'm not sure it's ten Well,
if we had to break it down to if we have to break it down
stars starters right now, probably, and we gotta remember, we gotta do
this in like three different portions, the Miles Bridges list portion. We have
to do this with Miles Bridges and then what will probably be the lineup come
February. So to start this out, it'll probably be LaMelo Terry. My
guess is Gordon Hayward still starts PJ and Mark Williams, and then on top
of that, first guy off the bench probably ends up being Cody Martin.
There'll be a Cody Martin. See Cody Martin, Brandon Miller, JT.
Thor and Nick Richards. They believe in JT. Thort. That's the one
guy I think we're not talking about enough is that I think JT. Thor
is probably gonna get more burned than people think because he can play, he
can defend multiple positions. He's a six to eleven guy. Now, granted,
defensively he's better that like, defensively, he's going to be better than
he is on offense. But if he if he hits a couple of threes,
if he does at least a little bit of damage, if he's if
he's a floor spacer, he's going to be very very good. And then
the fifth maybe Bryce McGowan's maybe a nixt Smith Junior. I'm not sure it
matters as much at this point right now. Uh yeah, I mean,
I second, I love JD. Thor. Watching him, it's like coordinated
chaos, almost organized chaos. Whatever. So I guess Miles Bridges comes back,
who's going to be like the odd man out there. There's a theory
that is Gordon Hayward. I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory. My guess
is that Gordon Hayward, because of the fact that he's probably at worst your
fourth or fifth best perimeter defender, and I stress this, at the worst,
is probably going to stay on the stay on that starting lineup. I
would be I wouldn't be surprised if it's PJ. Washington that comes off the
bench because he's done that before. I would I think that's the way they
go with that, and then it becomes a Cody the first three off the
bench, PJ Washington, Cody Martin, and Brandon Miller, and that's a
pretty strong That's a pretty strong eight right there, provided everybody stays healthy.
And then I do think that at some point, if Brandon Miller pops,
that's when the conversation about Terry Rogier has to happen. And that may be
a conversation where he pops in December, or he pops in January, he
pops in February, and then you're gonna have to have start having those conversations
because I think I think it's coming faster than we think. I just don't
think it's going to be one of those I don't think the thing with Brandon
Miller and this is and I know we already talked about it to death,
but I think it's just a functional strengthing. But there are things that he
can do and if he's a dead eye perimeter shooter for this team, there's
a role for him where he can do that and distribute and be just fine.
This is question is always somewhat matchup dependent. But let's fast forward to
February. What should be What do you think will be their preferred closing lineup?
Is it just gonna be the starters or is there gonna be room to
futs and fiddle there? Cody Martin just wherever I think LaMelo Cody Martin,
Miles Bridges, PJ. Washington, Mark Williams. I think Terry Rogier.
I think they mess with Terry Rogier on and all. They do some offensive
defense things with Terry Rosier because I think defensively Terry Rogier has limitations because of
his size. What is a weirdo, quirky, unconventional line up? You'd
like to see them try again? You stole the lamello in All Wings one,
but I don't think that's that's coming. Actually, I got it,
Bridges, let's see Ball Bridges, Washington four, Mark Williams. Okay,
I'd be here for it. Mine mine was way too similar. I thought
I was gonna have you because I had until you started talking about JT.
Thor at the end. My allway it's LaMelo plus All Wings, But like
JT. Thor is in there, so I've LaMelo. We'll go. I
want to see Brandon Miller, JT. Thor, PJ. Washington and I
think Miles Bridges as the fifth in there. You could go with Gordon Hayward
if you really wanted to, but that would be a lineup I'd love to
say, I think because of the Center. The only thing is, I
know Cliff is not the biggest fan of Peter Washington Center. I know that
for a fact. But at the same point, I can easily see that
one too. Why don't we call it? We'll call it JT. Thor
at Center. Then will that make Cliff feel a little better? Men?
Because have you have you seen him try to hold Biggs off? Once you
see that, you'll understand why the Hornet's current wind total over under said at
twenty four and a half, that's way too low. That is definitely a
typo and that I'm thinking about it hold about to say there's no way it
was that low. I think I might have accidentally put the Wizards one in
for that problem. I think it's twenty nine and a half. I think
it's twenty it's thirty and a half. At alf put they're twenty four and
a half is way too low? Are you going with the over the under
on that? And where do you see them kind of stacking up in the
larger context of the East. Last year, when I said it said I'm
not worried about losing Bridges, I was a little too arrogant. I think
they hit over but I think it's because this team again won twenty six games,
and they only got thirty six games combined from Ball and Bridges. This
team, I think has enough talent to get over thirty if you get enough,
if you get forty eight. I'll put it this way. If you
get fifty games from LaMelo Ball, you get fifty games from at least at
least fifty games from Miles Gracious, you get maybe forty games from Gordon Hayward.
Like I'm not expecting much, But if you get a decent amount of
respectable amount of games from that roster, I think they'll win over thirty.
If you give me sixty games, a Lamello and a boatload of health.
I think. I think it's possible. Keyword. I think it's possible that
they get top six. I think this team is very similar to a Cleveland
team that just needed that one last piece, which was Evan Mobley, and
I think they can compete for top six. It's just I just wonder about
the maturity of this team. But I'm wonder also thinking that Cliff is a
perfect guide instill this before he moves on to probably what is a front office
position. This isn't going to be a tough one when we go through our
over unders here for me, because like you said, they won twenty seven
last year with less than ideal health and just like obliterated availability from certain guys.
And there's more talent on this roster, so if they're even a motcom
of better health, they should win way more. But I'm wondering if there's
like the potential do they trade out of some of their rotation players. The
East is also kind of there are other teams where I don't know how to
feel about them, Like what do the Pistons look like this year? What
are the Magic doing? Where the Wizard? We know the Wizards will probably
be the worst team in the conference, but it just it's so jumbled towards
like the middle of the East. I don't know where to place them.
Here's the thing about what, Here's the thing about what? I wear A
wonder like I love last love Lazarus Jackson. I know he's listening to this
right now. I wonder about where Detroit is going to be. I'm not
necessarily worried about them. I'm much more I'm very curious about where Orlando is
going to be in a year. This year, I'm much more curious about
what Atlanta is going to be because Atlanta looks like a train wreck someone.
I'm very work like. There's a lot of this. What does Philly look
like? Does Philly take a step back? Like Philly's a basketball team at
this point is exactly so we're talking about a lot like. I think having
the talent that they have right now, they can take advantage if they stay
healthy and it's a year and you're not introducing a new coach. You're not
You're not having all this chaos of a trial or anything else like that.
This is just about basketball this year. You can focus on. This team
can focus on basketball. There's no on the court, off the court stuff,
there's no coaching higher This is the same guy in the same program.
And you know what's again, These guys know what's expected of them for the
most part, and the rookie is not expected to contribute that that much to
this This team is going to be better than people think. I'm going to
say this repeatedly. They're going to be better do? I think they're an
automatic playoff team if everything pops right. But everything doesn't always pop right,
especially in Charlotte. But I expect them to be in the playoff playing race
because I have a lot of questions about everybody, quite honestly, after five
or six, Like I do have questions about a Indian Indiana team that is
expected to do a lot with Jaris Walker and everything that they put together.
I do have questions about Chicago. I have a lot of questions about a
lot of those teams, even Toronto. I have a lot of questions.
And I wonder if the Hornets, because of the continuity and because of the
bunker mentality that they kind of have right now, or at least it appears
that they have right now, I wonder if they come out and surprise everybody,
Yeah, they're in a weird This will come off as an insult.
But the only team I'm prepared to say they'll definitely be better than is Washington.
But I could probably go through a list of five to seven teams that
they feel like could they be better than the Nets? Absolutely, Bowls,
Raptors, of course, like so the list's not prepared to do the nets
yet. I'm not prepared to do the nets because I think the nets are
the nets and job. I believe in Jock Vaughan's coaching capability. Bulls and
Raptors. Absolutely give me those three teams Wizards, Raptors, Bulls. I
feel confident about those three. Oh that's interesting. I mean, for me,
the bulls, at least one of the bulls are raptors. That has
to bake in a Okay, they became sellers because one of those teams,
as constructed, should be better than the hornets right now. And if they're
not, I'm assuming a catastrophic injury has happened. I think the one thing
that we have to remember is that there are guys on this roster. There's
always a guy. Last year was Nick Richards that took the took the next
step after three years? Is it JT Thor if he takes if he takes
a like, there's at least one guy, is it. Bryce McGowan's is
brand like I think brand like I said, I think Brandon mill is going
to be better than people think year one. I do think the strength is
going to be an issue, but I think skill wise, skill wise,
in basketball, IQ wise, he does so many different things so so well
that he can't help but make an impact on this team. I think this
team is incredibly talented. It's it's literally the health issue for me. If
they stay healthy, if LaMelo plays sixty games, I think they're gonna win
closer to forty four forty five, then they will down the thirty one thirty
two. Is there anything we have not discussed that you think needs to be
hit about this team? Now? I think we spanned the gamut on this
one. I think we've spanned the entire gamut. In that case, are
you able to tell our listeners where they can find you and you can find
me? Yeah? You you can find me on Twitter. You can find
me on Blues Guy, not describe. They're all the same thing, Twitter,
Blues Guy, whatever. There is a social media if not, If
you really want to hear the stuff I do, I do the onon College
Basketball podcast. I work for CBS. I produce a bunch of podcasts for
CBS Sports, and largely if you want to hear my thoughts, you would
just follow me on Twitter. That's about it. The link to his Twitter
and I'll try and find his blue sky. I don't know if I should
follow you, and hopefully I do. We'll be in our description Kanada.
This is always a genuine joy. Thank you so much for me so generous
with your time and your insight. As you know by now, I will
be pasturing you again in the future course, of course, Man, look
forward to having this conversation this year and figure out how wrong I was this time.